I’ve been over on Newcomers for awhile and think it is time to begin a thread here. I’ve been lurking here for a little while. As a means of introduction here is a link to my current thread
Turn the pageI don’t have much to post today, but I am sure that will change. There are still a few details of the decree to work through and I am certain XW will spew about those soon.
Welcome JS. It is a weird feeling to come over here. I moved here not long ago. I know people here will love your depth of writing and expression. I have for over a year. Welcome my friend.
Thanks Rick. I don't know about deep. I'm just an old grunt who lost himself in co-de. The basis for my survival during the last two years was the training and experiences from the previous 53. Now I want to live.
WElcome JS - join the crowd
Let's LIVE!
Sooooo.....what exactly are you planning for your second act? Got any adventures lined up? Going to learn any new skills?
Ellie
(PS In my case, I took up playing the drums when my ex left. Now I play in an amateur rock band. I like to say, I may have lost a husband, but I gained a music career
)
(P.S. I'm 56 so it's never too late!)
Thanks Ellie,
A long time ago in a life far far away I played at being a drummer. We never really did more than annoy our parents and the neighbors. These days there is a djembe I hand drum on.
Yes there are plans, mostly to experience things put on hold. We used to travel. Mostly short trips in an RV, but there was always at least a week somewhere. Soooooo, more of that to start. I plan to trade in “our” RV on something with a bit more space to haul toys in.
Toys, well there is the Kayak, but it is designed for the more placid waterways nearby. I plan on picking up another for whitewater. Then there is the bike. I planned on picking up a used touring bike this fall and wintering it over for next year. Unfortunately circumstances have conspired to make that impractical this year. By bike I mean something weighing over 800lbs. A bagger with a removable windscreen is planned
In the near term I have an annual bow hunting trip with my cousins in October and another in November.
There are a few skills I’ll knock the dust off of. I used to boulder and I went rappelling with X for the first time in years during the Memorial Day holiday 2 yrs ago. It was her first time, we used a guide and she was on belay the whole time, very safe.
A new skill I’d like to explore is SCUBA. I have several friends who do and can hook me up, we’ll see.
My son and DIL have discussed, but not planned a RV trip to DC next summer; I’m going, they are welcome to come along. There will be room even in the current RV although I might wish to board the dog.
Lest anyone be concerned a MLCer has arrived in your midst let me assure you. I’m planning it carefully and am willing to delay aspects of my replay until they become affordable on my budget,
but I deserve it and I’m going to have it.
On the mundane but rewarding side I do have responsibilities to be mindful of, Mom and my children and grandchildren. One can be a responsible son and grandfather while still living and having some fun, can’t one?
You've earned the right to have some fun - nothing wrong with that. It is a way of having new beginnings and not focussing on the endings. We all need to knock things off our Bucket List - what better time.
Barb
Thanks Barb,
There is a trip to Belleau Wood residing in the bucket that might come off sooner than planned.
Reading other threads got me to thinking, always a dangerous pastime for me.
I know this is pure speculation, but I wonder if some of X’s spewing isn’t repressed guilt over her abandonment of the relationship.
It doesn’t matter to me if she damages her relationships with family. What matters to me is the pain they exhibit and the concern that I might be perceived as contributing to it. I don’t think I have yet; it makes me tentative in some circumstances. Not the leader I’d rather be.
"Belleau Wood"??? - I've not heard of it. But if it's on your Bucket List - just do it.
Barb
Yes, anger is guilt turned outward.
Although sometimes they just spew because they're spinning like a top.
Stick to the high road, don't sink to her level, and over time, all the people who matter will know who you really are.
@Barb: Belleau Wood is a WW 1 battlefield. Of the places in this world Marines hold as sacred ground it seems to be the easiest for a common tourist to visit. I might be able to tie this together with business travel negating some of the expense. If I am able to visit western France then I might as well take a couple of days and visit a few other places.
@Ellie: X gets angry and spews at the extended family and our children more often than me. I have maintained relationships with most of the extended family and of course my children. She put much effort into having me shunned. She has not received the response she feels is appropriate so she gets angry and spews. As I take the high road and do not engage or return in kind she only damages herself.
I realize it is through this that X is interfering with my life. Perhaps more importantly her meddling is wearing thin with the children. Taking the long view this causes me to be mindful of how my actions can place my children in an uncomfortable situation with X.
I am attempting to have an adult relationship with the adults in my family. X is attempting to control her relationships. In the end she is only hurting herself.
Journaling: I had a very good weekend. My sister was visiting mom and I took a couple of days off work at the end of the week. (four day weekend) Thursday and Friday we made little shopping trips, and visited mom together. I didn’t make dinner most of the week.
Saturday morning, I sealed the flat roof on the rental SIL lives in. My sister pulled a few weeds from around the foundation while I spread fibrated tar on the roof. Afterward my sister and I discussed how awkward SIL must feel with me as a landlord. (Oh well you’ll have that). I was a little dehydrated and took a break for about an hour after , sipping water in the A/C.
Saturday evening I grilled steaks and we had an impromptu picnic at my house. We got mom out of her house for a few hours. My son and DIL brought GD, ate and visited with us.
Sunday I took my sister to the airport. Mom and I drove home lost in our own thoughts. Mom did note a few changes along the route home. I spent the rest of Sunday cleaning up around the houses. I pulled a shrub XW had planted in an inconvenient location, cleaned the awning on the RV. I managed to get cleaning solution splashed in my eye. Standard first aid, flush the eye and carry on. I looked at the eye in a mirror and my daughter looked it over when she stopped by after work. It is still a little irritated today, but otherwise unaffected.
Journaling: Labor day has come and gone. I was busy. I planned to attend the local air show, but I did not. There is always next year although I’d rather watch the Blue Angles than the ThunderBirds. Go figure.
I have spent several pleasant days with family and drove Mom around to several appointments. Just marking time until the QDRO goes through. I have confirmed plans to hunt in WV again. My cousin is seriously considering a bear permit this year.
Today I spoke with my L. There are some more documents to sign related to the changes X made to the QDRO distribution. I’ll stop at his office after work this evening.
In the Soap Opera,
The children are shielding me from drama X is creating in their world. My daughter is ignoring telephone calls and DIL began to express some of her frustration and then stopped b/c I was present. I have no desire to watch the show. Their frustration bleeds over sometimes and bothers me some and then I remind myself it is not my issue to deal with.
Journaling: The documents I needed to sign are the result of X changing how her portion of our 401K is to be distributed. She will now take all of the monies as available funds. Kudos to my L for writing in a clause limiting my tax and penalty liability to what was originally agreed to.
This latest decision to change might push back the last actions of the decree into next year. Last year I jokingly referred to X as the Grinch due to her interferences with my Christmas celebrations. That moniker may become permanent until evidence to the contrary is perceived.
JS aren't 401ks equalized in your state? They are in mine. I know this is no fun. Hang in there buddy.
@Rick: Yes they are equalized. We are taking more than half out as a means to pay off the debt we accumulated and begin anew with clean slates. X has changed the amount she can use as discretionary funds three times through modifications of the QDRO. The amount she is taking does not change. How it is distributed or rolls over does.
The effects of her changes are she pays more in penalties and taxes, and of course the delay induced by each of these changes. She made some very poor monetary decisions just after she filed in December. Taking most of the distribution as available funds seems to be the corner she painted herself into.
By the time this is settled and the funds are distributed I’ll be able to demonstrate to the bank how I’ve been able to pay all of my debts, spousal support and mortgage included for six months.
So these delays actually will benefit me with the refinance of the house. Once the refinance is accomplished I should be able to breathe a little easier and have a little discretionary money available. So the future is a little brighter on that front.
Journaling: On Friday DIL asked if I could babysit. So I spent Friday night play with my GD. She is crawling now. Not up on all fours yet, she is practicing her low crawl, elbows and knees. She is getting around exploring her world. DIL has given up trying to keep her on a play blanket.
Sat DIL asked me to provide a ride to the auto repair place and later she, son and GD visited my mother. Mom was very happy and still excited when I visited her a few hours later.
Sun I managed to get the yardwork accomplished for two of the houses. Then back to work.
Journaling: GD is up on all fours and beginning to babble. They grow fast don’t they.
I attended Nephew2’s Eagle Scout award ceremony. X was there. It went well. We avoided each other and when we couldn’t we ignored each other.
I toyed with the idea of walking over and giving her a great big hug and rejected the idea as it would have been only to F with her mind and she is having enough trouble there these days
I perceive some underlying tension in the extended family principally with SIL2. This could have been a function of her son’s ceremony and that I was acknowledged in it. Whatever, remaining composed and not being the source of tension was proper.
There is also the possibility a conversation I had with SIL2 illuminated some of what is bothering her. During it she said “We are only really complete when all of the sisters are together”. I agreed with her in that three of the sisters are very close. Where that goes is up to them, for the most part the extended family consists of adults or nearly adult children and they should be treated as such.
Journaling: I cycled again, back to the beginning, I spent the better part of a day last week when I wasn’t otherwise occupied pondering why she felt she needed the divorce. I still cannot fathom why she quit on us.
From my POV we’d weathered other storms more intense than this one, always found a way to make it through and build a stronger relationship. Past experience gave me hope we would do so again. Even up to today there remains a small amount of hope. Not that I am waiting around.
And so I cycled over the last week. I still feel a bit of resentment and I’ll work to let it go. I think seeing her at the Eagle Ceremony triggered the beginning of it. I chose to let it continue. I wanted to examine and try and make sense of it. I guess she did not need to leave so much as she chose to leave and most of her reasons were rationalizations.
None of this is a new realization. I’ve been here before. I wonder how many times I’ll feel the need to repeat it. I need to accept that she chose to leave. I am trying to do so without rancor. In my make up quitting is a sin.
In other news this weekend when DIL had a crisis and needed someone to sit with GD she called me first. The little girl is making more vocalizations trying out her vocabulary. She is almost 9 months now.
JS, you know those dreams that we all have, when we wake up and go "oh thank God, it was just a dream"...
This isn't one of those.
I don't know how many times I thought to myself at the beginning of it all, that maybe I would just wake up... and then I thought, maybe my W would just wake up... and then I realized... ain't nobody sleeping...
All you can do is make your new normal. And it sounds like you're settling in to that. Of course you'll cycle. And as we always say, things will get better. No matter how that looks.
Thanks for the response Kaffe.
This isn’t a dream. This is the new normal and how good it gets is up to us. I do know the dreams through, vivid dreams.
I know seeing her was the trigger. She is not the person I married or maintained a relationship with over all these years. She doesn’t even seem to be the person who ran away or who divorced us. She is so damaged. I know she needs to work through her issues and I am oddly at peace to let her do so. There was a period when I would have attempted to rescue. I feel as I am past that. She is a stranger.
She is breathing. There is no arterial spray. She is wounding herself and I cannot treat her shock.
I am slowly removing the last vestiges of her presence from the house. As I do so I continue to find evidence of her crisis. At some point she began writing in notebooks snippets of information and feelings. They are interspersed with shopping lists and other mundane notes. I have stopped torturing myself and toss every notebook I find. I have not yet touched the computer she used. When I am ready I think I’ll boot it off a CD and wipe the drives. There is nothing I need upon it. I cannot explain why I have not accomplished this yet. I know what Chesty would do.
It is a process JS. Getting rid of stuff and making home your own. It takes time. So don't feel the need to rush and no need to question yourself. You will not come up with a rational answer and you don't need to torture yourself. KD is right things will get better.
Funny, as I am going through my house there are virtually no traces of my X. He still lives here. And as I found "His" stuff I put it into his room. There wasn't much. Some of our stuff might have been gifts to us as a couple.
He seems largly unattached to the majority of the contents of our home. Guess all the years I collected stuff and tried to make our home visually interesting, a special place for us, was just me doing what I thought I was supposed to.
My next house will be all about what things make me happy. I suspect the colors will be brighter, and the decorations a little bit more extreme.
I bet you enjoy making your space your own. (But if you put in a dogs playing poker painting, we might think you are having a crisis of your own!)
Aloha,
Wendy
Wendy can't wait to bring my stereo from the basement. Exw hated loud music. Gonna blast that sucker very soon. And will get rid of all the horse paintings on the walls and exchange them for a Carmen Electra painting and fighter jet planes. Sooooo excited.
She left behind all of the things that documented the good happy times we shared. Most of them have been put or thrown away. I am surprised by one occasionally. Like a little mine it pops off. If she took something with her like the digital picture frame all references to our happy times have been deleted. The kids noted it. My daughter said it is as if her mother was created about three years ago.
This affects my children. This affects me. They love the memory of their mother, as I still do my wife, however we need to love ourselves also. They need to love themselves enough to keep moving forward. I also share this need. I am getting there. It is a process.
Maudlin that seems.
So yea, changes to the house are ongoing. I doubt I’ll need a dining room anytime soon, sooo I have moved tables and chairs out and I will retask the room with a weight bench from the basement. I am tired of the dog whining from the top of the stairs.
I borrowed the TV from the RV, bought a blue ray player and now stream my television. I need to find a better cabinet and finish the hook ups for local stations, all in due time. Bow season for eastern white tail deer begins Saturday in Ohio
No velvet Elvis ehhh?
I have a connection to the "Tiki" world. And some of the outlandish things those internet friends do in the name of decoration! YIKES! Velvet paintings are very popular!
I have paintings of my own cats, from college that I'm sure many people find questionable........
Like the line from from the famous Chuck Berry song "My Ding-A-Ling" Live like you wanna live,Baby!
Aloha,
Wendy
((((((((((JS)))))))))))
It does seem so bizarre that they can seemingly forget all the happy times, but they can not reconcile them with the past they have created to justify what they are doing.
I like that you are making the house yours! Make it a place that feels peaceful and as happy as possible. I bought some new zen items and framed some new art and it really helped. I also bought a new soap that has a great scent that just makes me happy when i smell it. Little things can make a big difference, i think.
It reminds you that YOU are worth caring for.
Wendy, Thanks It is past time for me to change my focus to me. To lead myself.
NG, ((((NG)))) back at you.
I feel as though I’ve been experiencing a cranial rectal inversion. Sitting here feeling sorry for myself. It is past time to pull my head out and refocus.
A few weeks back I was responding to a friend on the alt about their feelings related to their parents and their parent’s relationship. It got me to thinking about some of the drama X spewed. I began another cycle of self examination and drilling to root causes. This introspection caused another round of tentativeness in my actions relating to others. I dwelled considering how I was perceived by others, seeking approval and stopped leading myself.
This has negatively impacted my relationship goals for this year respective of the extended family. Nothing serious as it is easily correctable provided I lead.
I’ve been flying under the radar here. I still read this, Newcomers and the MLC forums. Not like I used to and it seems like I’m late to the party for posting a comment or support. A little distance is probably what is needed now anyway.
Relationships with the extended family are better. We usually gather at a fund raiser the first Sunday of each month after Labor day. It is a breakfast and I started out at a different table and then was invited over to sit and socialize with X’s family. I asked SIL1 to look in on my mother as I was traveling out of town for a few days. She agreed and visited mom with one of her daughters and granddaughters in tow. Mom was thrilled to see the little girl and spoke about it for several days afterwards.
I have been called upon to baby sit my granddaughter twice this month so far. Once was a minor emergency and the other was so my son and DIL could get a little couple time. I’ve been letting them take lead regarding visits. I agreed to baby sit overnight one night in November. I am slowly building trust with DIL.
One of the project teams I am on had a site visit and meetings most of last week. It is good to finally be participating directly again. I attended a little party last Saturday. It was a gathering of co-workers and former co-workers. It was the first time I have been to something like this without X. I had a little trepidation at first but pushed though and enjoyed myself.
Signed and sent the waiver form for the QDRO. I sat on it for a few days. There was no point in delaying it further. It is the document directing the split of my 401K.
I am meeting friends for drinks in a few weeks. Before then my cousin and I will bow hunt for 4 or 5 days. It’ll be good to get away and relax for a few days.
JS did you have to pay for the QDRO?? Hope you had fun
Yeah, I am being charged an “administration fee”. It is $300.00. I thought about calling my attorney and making a stink about splitting it with X. After some reflection I decide this is not who I wish to be and by the time I get through the attorney fees and such even if she was mandated to pay half I would only be passing it to my attorney.
At this point it is better for me to turn my back and walk away.
I will have fun. Watching the sunrise and hearing the woods wake up always relaxes me. To be successful from a tree stand you have to be still and I find to be still I must be calm and relaxed. Silent and scent free are also key components of success.
JS I heard it might cost something like 5K. Is that possible?
The letter accompanying the waiver indicated the fee the administrator will charge. Of course there is also penalties and taxes if the split is realized as income. I am not an L. This is my rudimentary understanding from my sitch.
In my sitch additional funds are being held in trust by her attorney to pay for the penalties and additional taxes. That is what delayed all of this when X decided to change how she receives the split. Increasing the amount she realizes as income increased the amount she must pay and the documents needed to account for that as I should not be liable for her decision to change the distribution from what the court ordered.
5K is not out of the realm of possibility if taxes and penalties are factored in. It actually seems low. Of course that is dependant on the amount split.
I would think 5k would only be if you didn't roll it over but took the money out and paid taxes on it.
I had a somewhat complicated QDRO (Ex had a defined benefit plan, but would still be earning more benefits after the divorce, formulas had to be applied and it all had to be kosher within the somewhat arcane rules of the large organization he worked for). I hired an outside expert to do the QDRO, to make sure I didn't get messed over, but it still only cost several hundred dollars (and I thought that was cheap given the amount of work involved).
Now - I suppose if you had several DIFFERENT plans to QDRO, it could be more (my friend who referred me to this guy, when she got divorced, her husband had several different pension plans from several different jobs, so I think her cost to QDRO all 4 or 5 of them was more like atill, it's worth it to make sure it's done right.
More like a couple thousand
That is what drives it. X needs funds to pay her half of our debt. When she could not get a loan to accomplish this she changed the QDRO to get the funds from the distribution, then changed it again taking the entire distribution as available funds.
If I thought the doomsayer’s interpretation of the Mayan long count calendar was correct I’d have joined her and had a December to remember
Boring post, boring is good, boring is peaceful, boring prepares us for the next round of DRAMA
Got back from bow hunting very, very early Monday morning, zero dark thirty. We were watching the weather forecasts and cut the trip short. The prediction for where we were was at least a foot of snow. This put us at risk of becoming stranded for a couple of days. I would have liked another couple of days in the woods, but not if we were attempting to get out.
It was a productive trip materially and spiritually. It was a risk, but I left my cell at camp while I was in stand.
Cerberus nearly knocked me over when he saw me enter the house and stayed in physical contact for most of the next day. Fortunately he respects the boundary about my bedroom. We hunkered down for the next couple of days while Sandy blew herself out, nothing as severe as the east coast, although I was glad for the pantry and generator.
Kept an eye on mom and checked in with SIL1 after we lost power. There are a couple of downed trees to reduce to firewood and I have to clean gutters again this weekend.
Work was closed for a day and a half. We put a skeleton crew in place yesterday afternoon to provide customer support and today after the power was restored we’ve been working to bring back phone and internet support. We’re digging out.
Son and DIL brought my granddaughter by last night for a short visit. She was dressed as Tigger. It was a short visit as the she had missed a nap and needed some quiet time.
JS, just checking in on you. Sounds like you're doing reasonably well. As usual, I think you have your head on pretty straight.
Boring post, boring is good, boring is peaceful, boring prepares us for the next round of DRAMA
Agreed. Boring IS good, sometimes. I just wish there didn't have to be DRAMA on the end of boring. Oh well, someday.
Hey JB, thanks for checking in. How is the king of GAL?
It only becomes drama if we let it. I’ve been letting it a lot less these days. X sent me an email the other day, the first one in months. In it she explained she needed her old recipe box, the recipe box containing her grandmother’s recipes. She explained she needed a specific recipe for Finnish Tarts before this Friday (today).
She hasn’t made Finnish Tarts in 20 years and I always thought they were a waste of left over pot roast, but I digress.
So I thought about it for a while and located her old recipe box. I should probably clean out the kitchen cupboards. Doing so hasn’t been high on my priority list. I looked through the box and I did not locate the specific recipe she “needed”. I briefly considered chucking the whole thing in the trash, but decided to take the high road and determine a means of getting it to her with the least impact to me. In her email she had suggested meeting in a local park or giving it to our S and DIL.
Giving it to S and DIL was out of the question. X recently angered them again and I didn’t wish to give them my bag o trash to handle. Fortunately, our D stopped by for a visit and upon seeing the recipe box out asked why it was there and what I was doing with it.
After I explained she said her mother shouldn’t be attempting to saddle me with more drama. That her mother should have either taken the box when she took her “stuff” or have written it off as lost. Our D has been all about erasing evidence of X’s presence from my house. I didn’t think I was upset by X’s request. I thought I was bemused.
In the end our D decided to take the box with her and give it to her mother. She said it had been sometime since she had seen her and she owed her an email.
I suspect this was an opening gambit from X to feel me out about going though the house again for more of her stuff. I am not wasting energy on this beyond recording it here.
The QDRO finally went through so we are coming to the final act of this drama X put into motion. I have roughly 60 days to refi the house and get her to sign a quit claim on it. After that there is the last tax filing before I am finally free of the financial entanglements.
I have been lurking over on the MLC forum, I have few illusions this will be completely over soon. With each passing milestone X’s ability to suck me into her drama lessens and that is a good thing.
Hey stun.ed,
Tha.ks for your kind words. Happy birthday marine(sorry, cant find caps on this phone) and enjoy veterans day!
Thanks Gunny
Semper Fidelis
I interacted with X on Saturday. The county auditor sent a refund check to me. I forwarded it to X so she could determine how she was contributing to accessing the money it represented. I had sat on it for about a week trying to determine this myself and finally decided to make it her responsibility. I was prepared to write the whole thing off if it came to that.
We met at her bank and while waiting in line we spoke casually. I was neither warm nor cold responding to her inquires. I did not wish to volunteer information. I was relaxed during most of it. She was unnaturally happy and bubbly. I do not know if this was nerves or delusion. Most of her comments were directed toward how great her relationship is with our Son, DIL and GD.
I do not know how true that is, perhaps they have mended fences. I hope so provided it remains healthy for them to maintain the relationship.
Most of the extended family began gathering at SIL1 house on Sunday. I was invited to family breakfast and spent several pleasant hours with them. The eldest niece brought her new BF home to meet family over the Thanksgiving holiday.
I have been invited to participate in Thanksgiving with family at SIL2 house. X, SIL1 and SIL2 are not friendly yet. X has decided to host her own Thanksgiving celebration. Although my presence is a factor in the strain a deeper cause is X’s insistence everyone must support her and her decisions.
The crazy dance continues. I stand on the sidelines and watch. I am not prepared to move on. This is my family also and moving on feels like abandoning them. At this juncture abandoning these relationships feels like martyrdom.
I am not a martyr. I am JS. Over 30 years I have been father, brother, and friend. This is my post. I still have something to teach and the kids are watching.
My Danish friends refer to Thanksgiving as “”That turkey day”. It is not a holiday they understand well and that is ok as I really don’t understand Hans Christian Andersen day. I do appreciate the whit Montag aspect of their holidays and wish we could adopt the philosophy in the states.
Last year I dreaded an aspect of the Thanksgiving celebration. The one where we express what we are thankful for. I was grateful that this tradition was not adhered to last year.
I have prepared something for this year and I am in a better frame of mind. One aspect is that X and I shared about 27 mostly happy years. They weren’t prefect (what ever is) and in that time we both occasionally did some pretty destructive things. IDK, perhaps I have forgiven myself as I can find few regrets looking back.
I am thankful for the guidance, mentorship, compassion and the occasional 2X4 I have received here.
I am thankful for the friendship and love I have received.
Happy Thanksgiving, and to my Canadian friends I hope your celebration last month was joyous.
Well stated stunned, happy thanksgiving!
Grrrrrrrr. Frustrated this is not over.
The D was filed in April.
X was required to pay her half of our debts enabling me to refi the house getting her name off the deed and freeing up funds for more GAL activities. I am still waiting for X's L to distribute the “FRACKING” funds.
Today he replied to my email stating he had sent checks to the various creditors 10 days ago. I see no evidence this has occurred.
Soooooo tomorrow I'll speak with my L again about what my options are.
On a brighter note I completed a firearms safety class last weekend and applied for membership in the sportsmen club it was held at. I believe I could have taught the class, but my time was not wasted as my attendance allowed me to meet several members and evaluate the grounds.
And, and I received a service award from my employer (30 years) so there will be a little Christmas money.
Do they ever come out of the fog and step off the crazy train?
It's been two and a half years. She's only hurting her relationships with her family. I should not care and I do.
I just put our GD to sleep. S and DIL are out for a date. X is not trusted to do this simple act. I know how much she wanted to be a part of our grandchildrens lives. She's blowing these opportunities.
I know I can't fix this. Hell I can't even tell her how much she's screwing up. All I can do is support family that accepts it and look to my interests. I feel pretty crappy doing it.
Ahhh the emotions stirred by these holidays. People place such import on perfection they cause themselves such angst.
I had a very good holiday. I spent time with my mother and my in-laws. I participated in the Slavic Christmas Eve my in laws host. I consumed a little more cheer than I should have, however I comported myself well.
My mother in law decided not to attend. She stated X has ruined Christmas, strangely the rest of us muddled on and seemed to have a good time. If she wishes to be a victim and have a snit in the corner she will. An old friend of mine used to say “You’ll have that” when confronted with drama stupidly, I am attempting to adopt the same level of detachment.
On the other hand my S drank too much, became morose while his wife drove home and turned inward. DIL called me and asked me to help her with him. I spent the next several hours consoling him and after we got him in the rack spoke further with DIL.
S is under a great deal of pressure to perform his assigned tasks. S feels guilty about the role he played when X left. S feels betrayed by his mother. S feels frustrated he cannot “fix” his mother, her relationship with his wife, himself, and the rest of the family.
What frightened his wife was his statement about being tired of all this sh!t and wanting to just end it all. He did not make this statement to me, but we removed weapons from their apartment that night. DIL said he was fine the next day after sleeping it off. I will become more intrusive in their lives and if I think I see any indication he will harm himself I will act. I will follow DIL’s lead here. She is sensitive to the potential risk and this is where she lives. I do not believe today is a day to act. I suspect there is little here to worry about, however I did not make it this far being an ostrich.
On the bright side, DIL and I are deepening a relationship. She is not seeing the villain I was portrayed as. She is seeing X struggling through her fog. She does not see the fog X is struggling with. She thinks X is bat sh!t crazy and behaving like an ass. I am not contributing to that perception. On the contrary I speak of good memories and time we shared. I find this is making it harder for me to stay detached, but so far I am managing.
(((JS)))
You continue to do well in your sitch. I know it's hard.... traveling the high road is a life choice that extends past our M, Past our D.. it will forever be a constant decision we make in regards to our x's.
It's interesting... when we chose to take the high road in our sitch - I don't think we realized how life changing it can be. I don't think we understood that us choosing love in difficult times would influence our relationships with others around us.
I remember there was a time when you and DIL didn't have much a relationship... but you were kind, patient, and compassionate. You created a safe place and well here she is....
Yes... it probably does come at the expense of you heart because it is slowing down the detachment process....
... but can you see yourself handling life any other way now? Can you think of another way to receive love other than by showing it first?
(((((((((((((((((((((((((JS)))))))))))))))))))))))))
you continue to set such an example to me of how i want to be with my sitch. thank you.
Hello NG,Awwww, shucks, hangs head, kicks dirt clod. Thank you.
Some people think I am too nice, I don’t. I have boundaries, internal ones I will not cross and external ones I maintain for my peace of mind. I have been a long time getting this far and there is more journey to travel. I find many people on these boards have valuable approaches. I learn a little from many. More from some than others and apply what seems to fit. It is a process.
I am not a saint. I am formulating a revenge of sorts. I plan on living longer, healthier and happier than she does. I do not need to flaunt it. I do not need to compete with her. I just need to do it and believe
I have. It is up to me and me alone. I liken it to distance running.
Hey Val,To respond to your question, no not really.
We are social creatures. The quality of our lives are enhanced by the quality of the connections we share with others. Others need not be human for instance, the quality of my life is enhanced by the connection I have with my dog. Lest I come off as pet hoarder I value far greater the quality of the connections I have with other humans. Some people get by with quantity. I value quality far more.
I need to be genuine to achieve quality.
You’re right I have made progress establishing a R with DIL, my GD also. She’s furniture walking, verbalizing and mimicking. She recognizes and approaches me. She has not climbed into my lap of her own accord yet, but soon she will.
Journaling:S actually had three days in a row off and seemed to let go of some of his tension. A little R & R is always helpful. DIL has encouraged less alcohol. The upshot of which is I inherited a fifth of Grey Goose.
I’ll check in this weekend during GD 1st B Day party. The little girl will be a year old in less than a week. I am still shopping for a B-day present.
After a long hiatus I have begun to remove vestiges of X from the house. I’ve started at one end of the kitchen and will work through each cupboard and drawer as time permits. There are nine drawers containing misc. items. In the house I grew up in we referred to this as a junk drawer. I expect to consolidate quite a bit. Sadly I found reminders in each of the first four, photographs and such. There were two small notebooks containing thoughts, tarot card readings and such. Like a scab I picked at as a child I read a few entries. Bad move. Doing so sent me on a brief ride. I am better now. Five more to go.
I picked up snowshoes last spring at a close out sale. These have become useful with the recent weather. DIL was the most surprised by my use of the shoes. It has been over thirty years. It is like riding a bicycle, easier actually.
Saturday while I was out and about my DIL called and asked if I’d like to hang out. So I adjusted my errands and included her and GD in a short shopping trip to the local warehouse store. Just before we left their apartment GD climbed into my lap without prompting and handed me a toy. I took this as significant, but then I am a Grandfather and everything GD does is significant.
Sunday was GD’s first B-day party. I gave her parents a potty chair and a gift card to purchase her something. I didn’t think she needed anymore toys even the ones purported to teach. So I opted for practical. This was not a leap. She doubtless will need clothes as she grows and the next size up is 18 months, so a few outfits will drift her way in the upcoming months.
I went to the party arriving just as X was getting out of her car. I had gone through the entire range of emotions anticipating she would attend. In the end I attended for myself, GD, S and DIL. To do less would have been chickenshit and I would regret it. The D is still affecting both of us. I was subdued and X did not acknowledge my presence or make eye contact the entire time we were at the party. I was the last person to leave. In retrospect I should have offered to help cleanup, but the kids seemed to want everyone out and I acted upon what I thought was a non verbal clue.
I meet with a loan officer today to refinance the house. It is the last requirement of the judgment entry. I have about 45 days left to complete it. I’m feeling neutral about this whole aspect. Just going through the mechanics of getting this accomplished. I hope to finally feel free of this mess and unencumbered move forward with my plans.
I don’t know where to begin. I’ve spent the last month digging back through most of the trauma I’d boxed up and put on the back shelf. I’m not done. I’ve placed a few boxes back to be examined again later. Whenever it got to be too much I’d box it up and do something else, usually work that needed doing. I have exhausted myself doing other things to avoid facing these demons.
At the end of last year I decided to face it again and work through what I could. The problem with boxing and shelving is eventually you have to go through them and find some peace. The longer one avoids doing so the harder it gets and the more what you’re avoiding colors your peace.
To forgive myself for my contributions I need to understand my actions and motivations. To forgive her I need to understand her actions and motivations. There are still some sticky gooey messes that may need a steam cleaning
Some things just are and there is no point in belaboring them or attempting to assign blame. Sometimes the best we can do from these situations is learning from them, doing so is better than repeating.
I benefitted from have so much history with X. I know her back story and the back stories of most of the important players in her life. I know my own back story. Our divorce was not inevitable. The survival of our marriage required one of us to sacrifice more. Both of us had. If our marriage was to thrive both of us needed to fundamentally grow beyond the crisis. In my situation that is the crux of the matter.
Having spent much effort attempting to understand our roles and grow from what I found I began another review of me. I have pondered if I have learned enough or if I am destined to repeat conditional behaviors and doing so damage relationships I am striving to nurture.
Learning only stops when we stop and I hope to never again feel the need to dig into me as deeply. I cannot afford complacency, so digging again may be inevitable. I need to find the balance point, my balance. I find myself going back to my roots as if returning to my core will provide a foundation to build from. I know of no other method.
I do not know where this will lead. I am following a process. My strategic goal is a state where my happiness and my peace are my life.
Now who’s running around with a needle to burst my bubble.
hi JS,
i always like reading your posts because they inspire me. i feel as if you continue to use your sitch to learn, grow and improve. i want to do the same and your posts help lead the way. thank you. ((((((((((((( JS))))))))))))))
JS.. you've been through alot in the past 2 years.. but I wonder if you think too much.
For example:
To forgive her I need to understand her actions and motivations.
Why? You may never know her motives and I would argue that you really don't need them to forgive. Your xw is venomous and has been like a snake towards you for a LONG time....
And although it sukks for you that you take the heat for it... it must be horrible to have such internal battles that she has to project anger to deal with them.
That's where the forgiveness lies. It is in compassion for her that she doesn't have her sh!t together and she is hurting the people around her. Yes she may be causing it, but your heart can break for her all the same.
Learning only stops when we stop and I hope to never again feel the need to dig into me as deeply. I cannot afford complacency, so digging again may be inevitable. I need to find the balance point, my balance. I find myself going back to my roots as if returning to my core will provide a foundation to build from. I know of no other method.
The past is in the past. Learn from it.. but move on from it. We can spend so much time analyzing it.. that it keeps us there. When in turn, it should just be used a guide. Something we pull from our back pocket when a present situation tests us.. or has us acting in old behaviors.
Just be.. my friend. Live in today. Don't force yourself to dig through things you aren't ready to. There is a difference between avoidance and protection.
Protect your heart now so it can heal.. and have faith that you will deal with things exactly when you are supposed to.
((( )))
I sit with a smile on my face and water in my eyes. It is good to have friends. It is better to have friends trusting enough to Gibb slap one now and then.
You’re right I do over analyze. Attention to detail is ingrained.
Most of this is past, what I could not process is shelved for another time. The boxes are fewer and not as full.
There is more to reply. I am still processing some.
My GD took her first steps last night. I need to toddle on as my employer beckons.
My GD took her first steps last night.
Thats AMAZING!!!!
She'll be running into her pappy's arms in no time!
It certainly is gratifying when someone runs to you with exuberance. It is fun to play chase too. I am finding being a Grandparent very gratifying. Perhaps it is because I am more confident in these interactions than I was as a parent. I find myself calm, much less reactive and more in the moment. I get to have fun. The old adage of handing the child back for a diaper change does not apply as I babysit. She loves her baths.
IDK, I think X’s venom and acting out stems more from her inability to find the peace and happiness she sought. I am out of the picture and I believe she still has the same struggles. She is using different coping mechanisms. I do not believe she has found peace with her decision and I believe she continues to rely upon external stimuli for happiness. She is not a whole person yet, perhaps she never will be.
This does not affect my day to day. It affects me indirectly through family. DIL is having a difficult time. She has intimated some of the antics that have occurred. I think she is trying to vent some frustration and I try to just let her. It is not a burden I will bear. X and I will be forever linked through the children and grandchildren. While X’s issues never were mine to solve it would be nice if she could treat our adult children as adults. That issue is between the kids and her. That pot is boiling how they deal with it is their business.
Reflecting back I recalled a time when I was certain she was having a MLC. I read several posts cautioning against using this as an excuse to not do the work, so I shelved it and worked on me. I am much better than I was. I returned to my roots. For a time I thought to use this as a ploy. X fell in love with a cocky confident Marine. I would exude that persona and she would not be able to contain herself or so I hoped.
The result of this is I am more that person now than I was two years ago. I have returned to my roots with thirty years of experiences to boost my confidence. I am not running a tough mudder this year, but maybe next. My son is doing a little recon this year. “Not as lean, not as mean, but still a Marine” Returning to my roots has boosted my professional life. My career is more exciting than it has been in years. Responsibilities and projects I find interesting are tracking along. It is a matter of reaching out and making it happen.
What does this have to do with reflecting on whether X is MLC or not? She is and after a few minutes reflecting on her latest antic and its affects I no longer care.
A friend recently described finding some reminders of his relationship, missing his spouse and moving on. I thought my reply might make for a post here.
FWIW
Recently I spoke with a friend who is long divorced, 23yrs. He told me he has not stopped loving the person he married. She just doesn't exist anymore. Someone else took her place and he is glad he is not married to her now. If that makes any sense. I understand what I am trying to articulate I may not be doing that very well.
I also miss the person I married and I am glad I am no longer associated with the person presently inhabiting her body.
I also find land mines. There have been a few bouncing Betties. Mostly toe poppers these days. I recently decided to embrace one.
Several years ago, as a V day gift X presented me with a coffee cup singing my praises. When she was feeling particularly loving that cup would make an appearance. That barometer hit several lows the last year we were together. I thought to toss it recently, but decided to keep it as a reminder. Not of what has been lost. Rather that she loved me for a time and she was not so unique or special that someone else will not in the future.
Besides someday we might be cordial enough to sit and sip coffee in the same room. I have the perfect cup. (Insert evil laugh.)
JS I love your writing style and the way you compose yourself. I thoroughly enjoy all your posts. Thank you
Hi JS! Lovely to read your posts again.
Happy St Patrick’s Day.
The last few weeks have been much better. I believe I have made progress, personally, in my relationships, and professionally.
Following DIL’s wishes I have always texted before stopping by their apartment. I have spent several afternoons in the last few weeks visiting with her and playing with GD while my son was working late. This has given us an opportunity and I have taken advantage of the time. She is getting to know me and form her own opinions about who I am. I had an advantage here as we are both Marines and have a few life experiences in common.
She had a minor crisis about two weeks ago, and asked me if I could assist. In the larger scheme of life this was a very small bump in the road, but I was able to help and was willing to do so. She needed to board their dogs at the last minute and the dog’s vaccinations had expired. So my Mastiff and I had overnight guests for a couple of days, a Teacup Chihuahua and a Puggle. I also fed the cats at their apartment while they were away. I already had a key to feed the cats so I picked the dogs up after they left and dropped them off a few hours before they arrived home leaving the key on a hook.
And yes alarm bells were going off in my head warning me I was stepping into rescuer territory. The difference here is I have no expectations. I was able to help, so I did, and then I moved on.
Their (Son and DIL) birthdays were last weekend. They were born on the same day two years apart. This being the odd year it was DIL’s. I have not asked if this makes them age half as fast.
SIL2 had planned a surprise party that fell through and I do not think they even know. SIL1 ended up babysitting overnight and we managed a little surprise for them when they stopped by to pick up GD. I held GD while last minute preparations occurred and while we visited before cutting the cake. A picture of me holding GD during the party was posted to FB by my son. That act held significance to me.
Yesterday I visited DIL and GD to drop off some mail and ended up staying for about 4 hours. DIL thanked me for visiting and conversing with her. This morning I was invited to breakfast with them and downtown for a parade. I went to breakfast, but I could not watch the parade with them.
Last week I signed the last document linking X and me, the house has been refinanced. The lowered payment should permit me to build the emergency fund back up, save a little more for retirement and begin to live a little.
And professionally? It a long boring story to most, suffice to say I am busier than a one armed wall paper hanger in a west Texas windstorm.
A mastiff, a chihuahua and a puggle... lol... that's a motley crew!
Sounds like you are doing great, JS.
And yes alarm bells were going off in my head warning me I was stepping into rescuer territory. The difference here is I have no expectations. I was able to help, so I did, and then I moved on.
This is a very important distinction. I sometimes struggle with whether I
rescue people I care about, still.
The first part is the request: When the request comes, are we emotionally attached to the request and anxiously re-adjust our lives in order to accommodate the request?
The other part is the outcome: Before or after the request and support, do we have expectations?
The most difficult parts of these types of situations is our emotional bond with our loved ones not being part of our decision making process.
Keep on keeping on.
Yep, motley crew indeed. The puggle is normally dominant in his house. That doesn’t fly when I visit. Humans need to be pack leaders. (Channeling Caesar Milan)
and I think that is why I was able to pull it off successfully.
Oddly enough I think being pack lead to the Mastiff was a factor in our divorce. It certainly allowed me to see some of the destructive drama occurring in the day to day interactions between X and myself.
The mastiff became lame about 6 weeks ago. I took him to the vet. It’s a torn or ruptured ACL. We won’t know for certain until after surgery. He goes under the knife in May. It is expensive. It will consume my tax refund. He is at mid life. If the damage can be repaired he has a good chance at a good quality of life for the next 4 to 5 years. It is my choice.
And there has been drama about tax returns. X has been emailing me about her travails regarding the exorbitant amount she owes. Either I engineered it or I should have warned her or I should help her find funds to pay what she owes. I have not replied. The only response anyone has gotten from me on the subject was, “She chose to take to take the full distribution as cash”, when my DIL brought up X’s IRS trouble.
It is a mute point now. The last email from X informed me God had provided a means of paying her debt in a lump sum. I do not know what exactly that means and after pondering it for a bit I am still puzzled. I am attempting to attribute this latest bump on the rollercoaster to “Oh well, you’ll have moments when none of it makes any sense”.
I hope you’ll respect this. My faith is personal. My relationship to God is my relationship. When X ran, she ran to friends from High School. Her friends have formed a church and they evangelize as part of their faith. X has decided our children need to be saved and is pursuing so with vigor. It is one of the stressors the children speak to me about and I have alluded to. Our Daughter has decided she wishes nothing more to do with X until X “comes to her senses”. I hope they work something out.
I believe that will be a long time coming. X does not accept our Daughter is gay and our Daughter has placed her acceptance as a condition.
Lastly, I am putting one foot in front of the other, getting stronger and more centered as time goes on. Good times ahead.
One year came and went. I did not realize it had been a year until I began to compose this update. Looking back the 24th was the day I replaced Mom’s hot water heater. I did not anticipate plumbing another gas supply line and this necessitated a second trip to the hardware store.
I have been waffling between being glad it is over and grateful she chose to end our relationship and marriage. I am glad it is over. Looking back the relationship was toxic and affected more than just us negatively. I find it difficult to have gratitude for the manner she chose and that I was not able to be part of the decision. I recognize it is all water under the bridge now.
The other day DIL made a comment about me and when I will be ready to move on. I think she was referring to when I will begin another relationship as moving on. This is not my definition of moving on. I do not think moving on should be predicated upon being in a committed relationship.
I gave her the same response I gave the pastor a few weeks prior when he inquired if I was looking. “I may begin looking for another relationship after I become content with myself and can be happy being me.” I spent too much time as a half. It is time I became whole again.
It is laudable that so many of us are looking for and finding relationships. I read each of the entries in these threads. I do not comment as I have little to add other than a caution and I believe when I am ready if I read a caution it might cause me to hesitate long enough to miss an opportunity.
My son ran the Tough Mudder in Mansfield yesterday and was quite satisfied with his performance. I hope to catch up with him sometime this week. We exchanged a few texts at the end of the day and I understand he finished with the group ahead of the one he started with.
I spent the beginning of the week in Louisville. Turkey hunting, catching up with my cousin and his wife and watching Thunder. It was a good way to start the week.
Hey Stunned,
I was just out in Mansfied two weeks ago, and lousiville the week before that. We are traveling in the same circles, maybe sometime we bump into each other. Glad to hear you are leaning forward!
Semper Fidelis
Doug
“I may begin looking for another relationship after I become content with myself and can be happy being me.” I spent too much time as a half. It is time I became whole again.
Hi JS,
i always love to read your posts. so full of wisdom. thank you.
i really like your statement above about how you will know when you are ready. i have been thinking about that too, get asked about it sometimes and do not know what to say, except that it will happen in it's own time... (i find the question very telling as to how disposable society views M, as i am not even D yet, it is a few weeks away.)
i think your answer is what i truly mean.. thank you.
One year came and went. I did not realize it had been a year until I began to compose this update. Looking back the 24th was the day I replaced Mom’s hot water heater. I did not anticipate plumbing another gas supply line and this necessitated a second trip to the hardware store.
I have been waffling between being glad it is over and grateful she chose to end our relationship and marriage. I am glad it is over. Looking back the relationship was toxic and affected more than just us negatively. I find it difficult to have gratitude for the manner she chose and that I was not able to be part of the decision. I recognize it is all water under the bridge now.
Perhaps it is.. or perhaps it will continue to be the catalyst of change for you.
The other day DIL made a comment about me and when I will be ready to move on. I think she was referring to when I will begin another relationship as moving on. This is not my definition of moving on. I do not think moving on should be predicated upon being in a committed relationship.
Good thinking.
I gave her the same response I gave the pastor a few weeks prior when he inquired if I was looking. “I may begin looking for another relationship after I become content with myself and can be happy being me.” I spent too much time as a half. It is time I became whole again.
Yes.. and as I am learning...that takes time. It's hard to be patient sometimes.. but we didn't go through he!! to do the same thing twice!
It is laudable that so many of us are looking for and finding relationships. I read each of the entries in these threads. I do not comment as I have little to add other than a caution and I believe when I am ready if I read a caution it might cause me to hesitate long enough to miss an opportunity.
I can understand this. Just remember.. it's just a cup of coffee.. or a conversation. It doesn't have to hold so much power.
You're doing fine JS. Just continue to keep moving at your own pace.
((( )))
Hi JS! I like how you expressed that you had been a half for too long, and need to be whole before entering the dating scene (or words to that extent). I feel the same. I'm not even divorced yet, and friends want me to go onto dating sites. No thanks. I need lots of counseling before I get anywhere near to one of those, if ever. I've been a half for too long too. I'm loyal to the extreme (it will override trust, love) and I'm finding it hard to break free from that aspect of my personality, no matter what my H did.
I'm also glad it's over, but I'm also having a hard time getting to the point of complete breakaway. I'm not emotionally involved anymore, but there's just that something that's keeping me from following through with the D. How did you do it?
Thanks for your wise words.
I appreciate feedback on my thread very much. I don’t anticipate it much anymore. I have been remiss responding to your fine posts. I apologize.
@Gunny I am constantly reminded just how small this world is perhaps we will bump into each other. Fair warning I carry a challenge coin for just such occasions.
Semper Fidelis
@Needgrace I am humbled that anything I post on this board could be considered wisdom. I am very happy if I have contributed. I am just another soul trying to make passage and heal along the way. Thank you for your kind words. I think the collective wisdom of the people on this board benefits us all. It has me.
Hey Val Do we push each other or what? Sometimes, even without intention. I have found things to be grateful for that are resultant from the D. I am just not able to find peace with the manner X chose. I do not have regrets with my actions or mindset and there is peace there.
You’re right it is just a cup of coffee or maybe even less at this point. Someone I have known for several years is deepening our friendship. I have no expectations. I have interest and getting out and about with different people will add confidence. I am taking life as it comes.
@BeingMe I wish I had something for you. I did not initiate these actions. She quit, left and filed in roughly a years time. I understand her support structure was encouraging her to do so.
We had been codependent for many years. What I saw as growth away from this she saw as abandonment. So in a way she thinks I quit. How the onion is peeled really depends upon the point of view of the peeler.
I understand loyalty.
Honor, Courage, Commitment are still guiding principles in my world. I follow your thread on MLC loosely. It seems to me you have a decision yet to make. In my experience commitment to a decision to act is often the most difficult part.
(((())))And lastlyI took Thursday and Friday of this week off.
Thursday I put another checkmark on the bucket list doing a tandem jump from 10,000 feet. It was not the adrenaline rush I expected. I think this was because I had complete faith in the equipment and the jumpmaster. I have a better rush when deer hunting or white water rafting and I think this is because I have more control of the outcome. I am considering budgeting for jump school. I have the prerequisite tandem jump checked off and perhaps as I gain control I’ll find the thrill of the sport.
Friday, today I was to take my granddaughter and DIL to the local zoo. DIL looked at the weather forecast and decided the art museum was more attractive. Then this morning one of her pets fell ill and I babysat at the last minute during an emergency trip to the vet. That took most of the day. Semper Gumby.
My granddaughter is a little doll and DIL appreciates the assistance. It is all good.
I happened to be part of a conversation with SIL1 and SIL2 about their parents last week. We agreed the best way to get along with them is to have no expectations. This lead to an epiphany of sorts. I know I should know this from all of you. I was able to personalize it…finally. This has lead to more understanding of X and some of the troubles we shared.
I hate the emotive upheavals. Short though they are they are still disruptive.
I dreamt X wanted to and was trying to reconcile. I puzzled is this something I am wishing for, or something I fear? I still do not know. I have no time to waste upon it and although it took a bit of time and effort to stop wondering I have walked away from the coaster.
DIL asks if I am amiable to her family moving in. So I may have house guests again. Might be longer this time, might not happen. Time will tell. July or there abouts. We’ll see.
Making my list of pros and cons.
Anybody out there have their adult children move back in? Might be for a couple of years. Biggest concern is damaging the progress I have made and the relationships I have with them.
JS
I am only now caught up and am on my way out of town so I have to be brief...which is of course, a relative term.
I love your ability to articulate difficult emotions with subtlety and nuance. I get it.
Anyhow, I have at least one gay daughter, maybe two. I do NOT agree with your x wife's views and find it ironic that any WAW with children would decide on THIS path to salvation...
(="compensate much?")
But if it's true that both my girls are gay, of course I ask myself
how it could NOT be related to how h and I did not model a healthy marriage at a key point in their lives?
We once had a wonderfully rewarding marriage and one in which we both achieved a lot, and were crazy about our kids...
I now think I don't have to understand "why" they are who they are. I merely have to accept and love them as they are.
So maybe enough with the blame...it only makes it seem that I think they are "wrong"...and I don't want that message to come from me.
I'm far more concerned with their choosing a mate well, than with what else society or some family members might say.
I have had my own "coming out" with this and it has not been as easy as I would have guessed. IT's been a real process for me and I'm still in it.
Thankfully I never came from a place of condemnation or trying to save them from a sin...just not believing it in one case, and feel worry and fear for them both.
I have many gay friends but when it is your d, and maybe "all" your d's, it still feels like some sort of failing on my end...
not b/c they are "wrong" but b/c I worry I must have been...if that makes any sense...and let me admit up front, I want to be a grandmother someday.
Sure, it can still happen but it's one dream I have to let go of (meaning, the method of how it happens IF it happens, is not up to me).
Anyhow, NONE of this is their problem...it's mine and yes sometimes it affects the R with h b/c I know they resent him a lot...more than I realized.
of all the issues now at hand, THERE is one big one, which is THEIR R's with h.
H and I are reconciled. IT's not perfect and it can be rocky. But I know there is love and commitment...
sometimes I worry that the adult kids' negative comments are patently unfair to h,
other times I worry that I am in denial...
Things can be smooth with h and I but when the kids are mixed in, I realize how left out of the reconciliation process they were. They did not attend Retrovaille or witness h's breakthroughs, etc.
I think that's on me...(and h) but I mean, it's on US for somehow not bringing them along. If I could write a chapter in DB, it would be on how to bring your kids with you along the journey
whether you reconcile or not, you need to heal and show them how...
You raise some other issues I hope I can help with b/c I'm dealing with some, so perhaps it'll only be with the comment
"Me too"...
I hate the emotive upheavals. Short though they are they are still disruptive.
I dreamt X wanted to and was trying to reconcile. I puzzled is this something I am wishing for, or something I fear? I still do not know. I have no time to waste upon it and although it took a bit of time and effort to stop wondering I have walked away from the coaster.
DIL asks if I am amiable to her family moving in. So I may have house guests again. Might be longer this time, might not happen. Time will tell. July or there abouts. We’ll see.
Making my list of pros and cons.
Anybody out there have their adult children move back in? Might be for a couple of years. Biggest concern is damaging the progress I have made and the relationships I have with them.
I am NOT familiar with your previous r with them so I'd need to know more before I can be of much help. Your past R with them will color how you see things and how they see things... it's not just in the past.
Since I am now having all 3 of my kids under one roof, let me mention a few hurdles. My youngest is in high school so of course she's here.
s26 moved out here with his GF in their own place. They did not work out, but he stayed back in our city, as ex gf went back east. Though he seemed resolute in his choice, s26 was also quite heartbroken...it was good we were there for him.
I'll never forget seeing her drive off in tears, and then his stoically seeing her off, only to turn back to us (= me and his sisters) with tears streaming down his face.
He said he mourned "what might have been, what he thought he had found and didn't have to look for anymore..." SIGH...
Since there is such a big age difference between s26 and our d15,
they only lived under one roof for 7 years,
so I LOVED the concept of his being here for awhile. Reminded me of times I thought had been lost forever. D24 and is also here. And he seemed to need us.
H was deployed to the Middle East last summer and his deployment terms were vague (4 months? 9 months? A year?) So he was going to be GONE and I'd be on my own with d15.
D24 was living on her own but came home mainly to help out with d15 and to save money. I liked and appreciated her return. Then s26 and his gf broke up, and he stayed with us while she returned to NYC.
They have said they'll be moving out within what is now, a few months.
So I found myself with the three of them under my roof again.
I am sure they want to move out, but they also are all very close to each other. And it's pricey to move out AND I THINK they like being here for d15.
Now h is back in the US but he works out of town during the week.
To the kids, this is a repeat of the past (albeit not so far like Alaska but in a few hours drive)
so he's home each weekend and plans on coming here when a similar job comes up in our hometown. This is in order to obtain a pension, which was supposed to have happened by now but seems delayed, again...(I'm not being paranoid, just tired of it).
They find this infuriating AND YET they also don't want him here more and 2 of them complain about him being here...a lot.
They pull me into their conflicts. I don't life feeling torn.
I now wish to reject that more, so my new "Policy" is to say "tell your dad that complaint, OR come to me with a solution proposed, b/c just complaining to me about my h, is not good for our marriage, or your r with him."
Sometimes they "gang up" and it gets tiresome...but that can happen in any situation with our children.
Here is my main concern for you.
I worry that your position is weakened b/c you have a grandchild and there is no way you'll toss them out if they cross your boundaries.
In my case, I WOULD have my kids leave if they were out of control or too respectful or disruptive, etc. I really believe I could do that if need be b/c I would do it with love. Meaning, I would do it because if they behave like selfish entitled beings, then my only way to alter them -this late in their life- is to hold them accountable.
it'd be an act of love and a form of discipline to remove them...I say that b/c a friend once told me that her mom kicking her out of the house when she dropped out of college and was not paying rent or working...was actually the kick in the pants she needed. Decades later SHE (my friend) is a great mother...so yes I think I could kick them out if I felt the need.
Or so I say
Point is, you'll have no leverage if they overstay their welcome. You may well feel powerless OR THEY may see you as being powerless...b/c after all, Are you going to make your grandchild homeless?
That's the rub. SHE is not responsible for their financial woes...and yet...
Are their problems due to economic conditions, or their wasteful spending or a rip off or their employment in a rough industry? (my older kids are actors and into film production...which comes with GREAT financial security 
...)
or are they having hard time b/c of their mistakes? If this is mostly on them, and it probably is, what will change by their living with you?
Why won't they stay on longer? Why would they want to move out if the house is big enough and you can help with their dogs and childcare AND bills?
If you want to help them, and I know I would, I'd just get something decided with all 3 of you there. I don't know your r with them
but at least once, all 3 of you must agree with clarity about what the time limits are for this arrangement and what their expectations are and yours...
and what you need from them.
I find my oldest is surprised by my wanting help with the house and yard, WHEN I ask, and not when it's too dirty for him. That irks me.
I suggest your DIL NOT take on all that (b/c she's female and it seems to come naturally to us OR to those around us)
so be clear about some sort of "contribution" from them. Your son helping with projects or paying something or saving money and having a PLAN for when they'll leave and how...
Finally, child rearing...that's a biggie. (I think the DOGS will be an issue.
S26 and his gf both had dogs so we had a total of 4 dogs here.
My brilliant poodles don't shed, but their dogs were like chemo patients...fur everywhere...and debates about whos' dog peed where, was lovely...) plus son's dog is deaf and not bright
(hey, he's a PUG so he's a lover, not a thinker)
so if dog care was an issue that we "handled" but still found an undertone of stress inside...then imagine your feelings about their child rearing...
If you are not in alignment with their child rearing, (and what grandparent is??) you will need to STFU at times in your own home...yikes.
that would be hard for me.
But if you know the date they'll be in their own home, it'll help all parties.
And you can definitely bond well with your GD...that is NO small thing. I would love that part...
and if you keep on GAL and set boundaries with the GAL, maybe it'll end up being great for you AND your GD ...
And them!...
I know you will not to see it as a victory or "win" over your ex wife.
But she may well see it as a loss on HER end and if she's still keeping a scorecard, as most WASs do...
who knows how many points she'll deduct from you?
She may get more wound up saving your gay d, or saving them, or the granddaughter or whatever...
That can't matter or get inside you.
Make sense?
Now
I'm off to a family wedding. My closest brother's daughter is marrying...and it's costing a fortune but the sad part isn't the money (okay it's part of it)
but it's a marriage with little hope of lasting
(sorry for the cynicism but my niece is a selfish little 19 y/o having a "Barbie" wedding and no, I'm still not sure what that means.
The invitations were pink, if that helps. (I hoped it meant getting a cheap gift but I'm wrong...they only registered at the most expensive of places...)
but I do I expect the wedding to have great entertainment value.
It's sad of course but I'm going for my brother. I know He wished different things for her...
so in the grand scheme of things, when we contemplate our children's life styles, choices or how they just are,
I like to think that none of my kids would have a wedding/marriage that would cause great pain to a parent, as my niece's has for my brother...
So I'm going to it so my brother has another woman in his life - he can count on watching his back.
keep posting JS b/c
sometimes I think it's the post recon AND OR the post divorce
stories we need more of.
The storm has passed but there are more on the horizon b/c life is just that way.
We can't forget to get the tools we need and need to hone and gain more of, as life throws new curve balls our way.
My mom visited last month and her dementia is progressing rapidly. My oldest sister is a saint who has her full time so I do what I can when I can...
I saw some notes you had about your mom too...see, life never just "gets all worked out"...
we will always need tools and support and meaningful connections in our lives.
I'm grateful for the ones in my life. And I know you are too, which is why YOU are "getting all worked out"!
((( )))
wish we could edit!! (We used to be able to...what's up with that anyhow? Can we at least get an explanation? Thanks!)
yes I'd have them leave if they were too DISrespectful...disruptive, etc...but I don't have a grandchild I'd be dislodging...like you
and when I said I don't want my girls to feel wrong b/c they are gay, "but only one..."and that I did not see it as a sin "for one"
I mean I'm not so sure about one of them being gay and, however I do not think it's a sin to be gay...
but I don't want to get bogged down in who is what. I do find it interesting about the whole label thing.
I played softball in high school and college and sure, half the team was gay. But at our 20 year reunion, half of those "gay women" were married to men and had kids. Are they all in denial and repressed?
Might some of it have been experimentation back then? Or bisexuality and then a choice of mate was made?
But I am NOT ALLOWED to say that in my home,
b/c my d's feel very insulted by it. So I keep it to myself and attend some PFLAGG meetings.
Don't know where you are in your journey with that issue, as you barely mentioned it.
But I Found PFLAGG pretty understanding of all our stages and not judgemental. I felt at ease saying "I'm embarrassed to say I'm embarrassed"...they got it.
Did your wife resist your d being gay before she decided on her new religion, or after?
was that an issue for you guys? Did she blame you? Herself?
Evil friends?
Anyhow, good luck!
Your words and tone really suggest a man who is bravely going forward with strength and dignity.
So now we need those GAL things.
BTW I did a tandem jump for my 50th. When I heard how safe it was (my guy was a former Navy SEAL)
I was a tad disappointed too. Where is the risk??
but then he heard I was a bit of a daredevil so he asked if he could "make the jump a little more exciting" so of course i said YES...
we leaped out backwards and upside down...
complete chaos and fun and wind...and then POOFFFF!!
the chute opened and I felt a wonderful serenity. I want to get certified to jump on my own and at night.
Here near the coast of California, I saw farmland and cities and ocean and mountains...like I imagine we see when we are no longer bound by our bodies...I LOVED IT.
wonderful!
Maybe the whole point of jumping isn't the "rush" but the actual peace you feel. No one tells you to expect that. So I am thinking it is a secret.
As for editing, I would always go back and fix my typos but I suppose it was a means of controlling what we did or didn't convey to our fellow DBers. It was decided by the mods that we were not adult enough to have our own conversations or possibly contact each other outside of the DB forum do all editing was stopped. I would at least a year ago if not longer.
As for having your adult kids move in with you: be clear about expectations ie they are not guests but must contribute to the running of the home. Be clear about boundaries and consequences. It is a big decision. Proceed with caution.
kat
The reason they got rid of the edit button, 25, is because, once they decided they didn't want people contacting each other offline (probably a liability issue), people tried to circumvent it by posting their contact information for a minute and then deleting it after the other party had copied it down.
That's why they disabled the edit function.
25
There is quite a bit to chew through here. I’ll try to be as brief
and attempt to stick to a
Red font.
JS
I am only now caught up and am on my way out of town so I have to be brief...which is of course, a relative term. This is brief?I love your ability to articulate difficult emotions with subtlety and nuance. I get it.
Anyhow, I have at least one gay daughter, maybe two. I do NOT agree with your x wife's views and find it ironic that any WAW with children would decide on THIS path to salvation...
(="compensate much?")Possible and I believe it is more complex than that. She had a vision of how the kids would turn out and how our lives would be spent. We had discussions about her disappointments. How those discussions shaped our lives at home and with the kids is an aspect of our relationship I do not regret ending.
Our daughter is 30 yrs old now. She came out to X when she was 17. I was away from home that night on a business trip, traveling with a coworker riding shotgun. X called to tell me. She was crying. She was upset. She told me this was just a phase. She did not take this news very gracefully. Our daughter has that night in memory and discussed it with me recently. I came home from that trip and acted badly. I have since made amends to my daughter about my behavior. In retrospect I should have confronted X about her expectations rather than our daughter about her choices.
When I met X she had run away from a domineering relationship with her mother. Part of that was controlling her freedom and access to friends. We were both raised in the Baptist faith. After we married X introduced me to her friends and they were forming a church. I was too pragmatic (the leader’s description) and we were asked to leave. X in some ways has returned to her friends and their church to gain strength in her new life. In many ways she has become her mother But if it's true that both my girls are gay, of course I ask myself
how it could NOT be related to how h and I did not model a healthy marriage at a key point in their lives? I do not accept the tenor of our marriage created our daughter’s sexual preference. I do not think it is that simple. I do not subscribe to the nature versus nurture theories. I believe we are more complex beings than these theories describe. I do not believe in the single root cause here. I believe in nature and nurture if that makes any sense.
I believe all of us are equipped at the start with a unique potential and then our environment, actions and choices shape the remainder of our experiences in this existence. I believe each of us builds or destroys our potential for happiness. Part of that process is experimentation.We once had a wonderfully rewarding marriage and one in which we both achieved a lot, and were crazy about our kids...
I now think I don't have to understand "why" they are who they are. I merely have to accept and love them as they are.
So maybe enough with the blame...it only makes it seem that I think they are "wrong"...and I don't want that message to come from me.
I'm far more concerned with their choosing a mate well, than with what else society or some family members might say. I agree whole heartily here. It follows a challenge my mother placed upon me when the children were maturing. She proposed a scenario of what I would do if a teenage pregnancy occurred. “How will you handle it?”
Sadly I presented a rather draconian response.
Mom countered and made me think it through with “Really, think about it again, because that would be your grandchild deserving of your love and my great grandchild who I will know” I have had my own "coming out" with this and it has not been as easy as I would have guessed. IT's been a real process for me and I'm still in it.
Thankfully I never came from a place of condemnation or trying to save them from a sin...just not believing it in one case, and feel worry and fear for them both.
I have many gay friends but when it is your d, and maybe "all" your d's, it still feels like some sort of failing on my end...
not b/c they are "wrong" but b/c I worry I must have been...if that makes any sense...and let me admit up front, I want to be a grandmother someday.
We did not fail. We raised a person who is confident and forthright enough to make a hard call in the face of opposition, to stand up for self and their loved ones despite hardship. Who will make a life and be a productive member of this society. As parents we have succeeded for we have nurtured a person of character.
And after having to stand by as my daughter endured and eventually went through ending a destructive relationship I pray she finds and enjoys a long loving relationship.
Sure, it can still happen but it's one dream I have to let go of (meaning, the method of how it happens IF it happens, is not up to me).
I understand the desire for grandchildren. I want more grandchildren. I have not spent time analyzing why and I don’t wish to. You’ll have grandchildren if they choose to have children.
I have checked myself against interjecting my desires and opinions regarding my kid’s choices particularly about grandchildren. Sometimes I find the effort difficult and I have pointed out where I perceived some of life’s challenges. I do not perceive this as attempting to control the outcome. I do not think they perceive this as meddling. I attempt to restrict my input to times of potential crisis or barring a crisis when it is solicited.
My daughter has expressed a desire to adopt special needs children. It is tough to parent special needs children, I have personal experience, as I had an elder sister who was special needs and my parents were at the forefront of mainstreaming. Having expressed myself here it is not something to belabor. She is a psyche major and has experience working as an aid in a group home. She has some idea of the responsibilities should she decide to execute it.
Anyhow, NONE of this is their problem...it's mine and yes sometimes it affects the R with h b/c I know they resent him a lot...more than I realized.
of all the issues now at hand, THERE is one big one, which is THEIR R's with h.
H and I are reconciled. IT's not perfect and it can be rocky. But I know there is love and commitment...
sometimes I worry that the adult kids' negative comments are patently unfair to h,
other times I worry that I am in denial...
Things can be smooth with h and I but when the kids are mixed in, I realize how left out of the reconciliation process they were. They did not attend Retrovaille or witness h's breakthroughs, etc.
I think that's on me...(and h) but I mean, it's on US for somehow not bringing them along. If I could write a chapter in DB, it would be on how to bring your kids with you along the journey
whether you reconcile or not, you need to heal and show them how...
You raise some other issues I hope I can help with b/c I'm dealing with some, so perhaps it'll only be with the comment
"Me too"...
I hate the emotive upheavals. Short though they are they are still disruptive.
I dreamt X wanted to and was trying to reconcile. I puzzled is this something I am wishing for, or something I fear? I still do not know. I have no time to waste upon it and although it took a bit of time and effort to stop wondering I have walked away from the coaster.
DIL asks if I am amiable to her family moving in. So I may have house guests again. Might be longer this time, might not happen. Time will tell. July or there abouts. We’ll see.
Making my list of pros and cons.
Anybody out there have their adult children move back in? Might be for a couple of years. Biggest concern is damaging the progress I have made and the relationships I have with them.
I am NOT familiar with your previous r with them so I'd need to know more before I can be of much help. Your past R with them will color how you see things and how they see things... it's not just in the past.We are still growing the relationship. DIL only knew what she had been told. I am lucky and grateful for the opportunity to introduce myself. I think that relationship is growing. My S really only knew me as half of Mom and Dad. We are experiencing a period of growth as well. They are only in the area for another two years.
My S is a local Marine recruiter. He has two years remaining in this billet. My DIL is also a Marine, recently separated. They moved nearby a year ago and the lease on their apartment is up in July. The downsizing of the federal budget is causing changes in my S’s assignment. This will require more time driving and increase his out of pocket expenses. They perceive a financial hardship looming and have begun looking for housing closer and less expensive. The search is not going well. Moving in with me would extend their budget and provide a buffer of time to find something in their price range.
This is not without precedent as they lived with me for about two months last year when their original housing proved to be untenable. My S does not wish to move in with me as he perceives this as a sort of failure on his part. This last is per DIL. DIL on the other hand sees advantages in having another adult to speak with and of course financial. At this point this is all just a discussion between DIL and myself. As a contingency plan it takes some pressure off finding other housing .Since I am now having all 3 of my kids under one roof, let me mention a few hurdles. My youngest is in high school so of course she's here.
s26 moved out here with his GF in their own place. They did not work out, but he stayed back in our city, as ex gf went back east. Though he seemed resolute in his choice, s26 was also quite heartbroken...it was good we were there for him.
I'll never forget seeing her drive off in tears, and then his stoically seeing her off, only to turn back to us (= me and his sisters) with tears streaming down his face.
He said he mourned "what might have been, what he thought he had found and didn't have to look for anymore..." SIGH...
Since there is such a big age difference between s26 and our d15,
they only lived under one roof for 7 years,
so I LOVED the concept of his being here for awhile. Reminded me of times I thought had been lost forever. D24 and is also here. And he seemed to need us.
H was deployed to the Middle East last summer and his deployment terms were vague (4 months? 9 months? A year?) So he was going to be GONE and I'd be on my own with d15.I followed your comments and I am glad he has returned. I understand deployments well. Personally although not recently, loved ones, and friends of loved ones have deployed. I believe some deployments are less equitable than others. They are dictated by needs of the organization with little or no consideration to anything else.D24 was living on her own but came home mainly to help out with d15 and to save money. I liked and appreciated her return. Then s26 and his gf broke up, and he stayed with us while she returned to NYC.
They have said they'll be moving out within what is now, a few months.
So I found myself with the three of them under my roof again.
I am sure they want to move out, but they also are all very close to each other. And it's pricey to move out AND I THINK they like being here for d15.
Now h is back in the US but he works out of town during the week.
To the kids, this is a repeat of the past (albeit not so far like Alaska but in a few hours drive)
so he's home each weekend and plans on coming here when a similar job comes up in our hometown. This is in order to obtain a pension, which was supposed to have happened by now but seems delayed, again...(I'm not being paranoid, just tired of it).
They find this infuriating AND YET they also don't want him here more and 2 of them complain about him being here...a lot.
They pull me into their conflicts. I don't life feeling torn.
I now wish to reject that more, so my new "Policy" is to say "tell your dad that complaint, OR come to me with a solution proposed, b/c just complaining to me about my h, is not good for our marriage, or your r with him."FWIW, working with adults I apply an 8 minute rule. I let them vent for 5 to 6 minutes and then start asking for solutions for about another 2 to 3. I’m not standing there with a stop watch just mindful of the time and tone of their presentation.Sometimes they "gang up" and it gets tiresome...but that can happen in any situation with our children.
Here is my main concern for you.
I worry that your position is weakened b/c you have a grandchild and there is no way you'll toss them out if they cross your boundaries.
In my case, I WOULD have my kids leave if they were out of control or too respectful or disruptive, etc. I really believe I could do that if need be b/c I would do it with love. Meaning, I would do it because if they behave like selfish entitled beings, then my only way to alter them -this late in their life- is to hold them accountable.
it'd be an act of love and a form of discipline to remove them...I say that b/c a friend once told me that her mom kicking her out of the house when she dropped out of college and was not paying rent or working...was actually the kick in the pants she needed. Decades later SHE (my friend) is a great mother...so yes I think I could kick them out if I felt the need.
Or so I say
Point is, you'll have no leverage if they overstay their welcome. You may well feel powerless OR THEY may see you as being powerless...b/c after all, Are you going to make your grandchild homeless?
That's the rub. SHE is not responsible for their financial woes...and yet...
Are their problems due to economic conditions, or their wasteful spending or a rip off or their employment in a rough industry? (my older kids are actors and into film production...which comes with GREAT financial security ...)
or are they having hard time b/c of their mistakes? If this is mostly on them, and it probably is, what will change by their living with you?
Why won't they stay on longer? Why would they want to move out if the house is big enough and you can help with their dogs and childcare AND bills?
If you want to help them, and I know I would, I'd just get something decided with all 3 of you there. I don't know your r with them
but at least once, all 3 of you must agree with clarity about what the time limits are for this arrangement and what their expectations are and yours...
and what you need from them. All good points and I take them well. I’ll not kick them or my grandchild to the curb. I think DIL is more mature than the average 20 something American women. I attribute some of this to her life experiences at home and in Iraq. When she broached the subject I hesitated to agree immediately. I think she began to mind read and volunteered boundaries. My hesitancy relates to my concern of falling into rescuing behaviors.
I think the biggest hurdle will come from my S. He’s putting in easily 6 10 hour days a weekI find my oldest is surprised by my wanting help with the house and yard, WHEN I ask, and not when it's too dirty for him. That irks me.
I suggest your DIL NOT take on all that (b/c she's female and it seems to come naturally to us OR to those around us)
so be clear about some sort of "contribution" from them. Your son helping with projects or paying something or saving money and having a PLAN for when they'll leave and how...
Finally, child rearing...that's a biggie. (I think the DOGS will be an issue.
S26 and his gf both had dogs so we had a total of 4 dogs here.
My brilliant poodles don't shed, but their dogs were like chemo patients...fur everywhere...and debates about whos' dog peed where, was lovely...) plus son's dog is deaf and not bright
(hey, he's a PUG so he's a lover, not a thinker)
so if dog care was an issue that we "handled" but still found an undertone of stress inside...then imagine your feelings about their child rearing...
Yes, there are three dogs and two cats. We dealt with it last time and there was quite a bit of shedding. The Mastiff drools profusely.
Three jarheads, a baby, two cats, three dogs…sounds like the making of a comedy. If you are not in alignment with their child rearing, (and what grandparent is??) you will need to STFU at times in your own home...yikes.
that would be hard for me.
But if you know the date they'll be in their own home, it'll help all parties.
And you can definitely bond well with your GD...that is NO small thing. I would love that part...
and if you keep on GAL and set boundaries with the GAL, maybe it'll end up being great for you AND your GD ...
And them!...
I know you will not to see it as a victory or "win" over your ex wife.I want to think I am past counting coup. I do admit to spending a few minutes dwelling on what if they moved in with her last year when they arrived in the area.But she may well see it as a loss on HER end and if she's still keeping a scorecard, as most WASs do...
who knows how many points she'll deduct from you?
She may get more wound up saving your gay d, or saving them, or the granddaughter or whatever...
That can't matter or get inside you.
Make sense?It is a given she’ll react. Bringing the kids closer will expose more to me than I wish. It is another place I need to make my concerns known. I catch some spill over venting occasionally and I have had to ask for peace a few times. Mostly this is respected. Venting is venting and releases pressure I just don’t want to be part of it when it turns to X.Now
I'm off to a family wedding. My closest brother's daughter is marrying...and it's costing a fortune but the sad part isn't the money (okay it's part of it)
but it's a marriage with little hope of lasting
(sorry for the cynicism but my niece is a selfish little 19 y/o having a "Barbie" wedding and no, I'm still not sure what that means.
The invitations were pink, if that helps. (I hoped it meant getting a cheap gift but I'm wrong...they only registered at the most expensive of places...)
but I do I expect the wedding to have great entertainment value.
It's sad of course but I'm going for my brother. I know He wished different things for her...
so in the grand scheme of things, when we contemplate our children's life styles, choices or how they just are,
I like to think that none of my kids would have a wedding/marriage that would cause great pain to a parent, as my niece's has for my brother...
So I'm going to it so my brother has another woman in his life - he can count on watching his back.
keep posting JS b/c
sometimes I think it's the post recon AND OR the post divorce
stories we need more of.
The storm has passed but there are more on the horizon b/c life is just that way.
We can't forget to get the tools we need and need to hone and gain more of, as life throws new curve balls our way.
My mom visited last month and her dementia is progressing rapidly. My oldest sister is a saint who has her full time so I do what I can when I can...
I saw some notes you had about your mom too...see, life never just "gets all worked out"...
we will always need tools and support and meaningful connections in our lives.Mom lives next door about 200 feet from my front door. This proximity and my daughter living with her has enabled us to keep her cared for at home. My daughter moved in with her Grandparents a few months after her 18th birthday. For freedom from the pressures she felt at home.
She has been helped with oxygen therapy and some med changes. Recently she experienced some additional spinal degeneration and is in pain whenever she attempts to walk. We have additional medical visits scheduled, however I think the only thing we’ll be able to do is keep her comfortable.I'm grateful for the ones in my life. And I know you are too, which is why YOU are "getting all worked out"!
((( )))
[/color]
That was quite a bit and I know I need to read it again and maybe post an edit. I have never taken compliments well. It is gratifying to receive feedback that positive progress is perceived. Thank you.
I am trying to muddle through and make my life better as we all are. GAL is a big part of that and so are the connections we have. I will jump again. I have a few other things on the project plan. I am having my own little MLC here. I will plan and fund it carefully. In this case it means putting off another jump until the late summer or early fall.
Kat,
I do not live for the rush; I appreciate the rush and really expected it. I noted the peace and there is quite a difference. Perhaps it is the peace rather than the rush, or the contrast of the two and the transition that occurs when the canopy deploys. Something to ponder as I plan for another.
I have never been on the board when we could edit. That hasn’t stopped people from making connections. More difficult, not impossible.
The kids were guests for a couple of months last summer and your points are well taken. Eyes open, tread softly, and check six.
Thank you for posting.
I think I should expound a little.
Sometimes we seem to only post about the negatives. Life with X was at times everything I think a marriage should be. There were a lot of positive moments and I have many good memories. To be fair she wasn’t always the overbearing, self centered, manipulative, bat sh1t crazy person she presently presents. Or maybe she just decided there was no longer a need to maintain the charade.
We are D. I post about her b/c her actions cause pain to people I love. I do not hear about most of it. I hear about it when their frustration peaks. It is difficult to stay out of their drama then, but I manage pretty well. Bashing and finger pointing is destructive and this is not where I need to go. At this point I prefer she be bat sh1t crazy elsewhere with someone else. It was her decision.
There was an 80’s joke about a person that planned their life down to the minute and wrote it all down in a personal planner. X was a bit like that. Not down to the minute, but there was a plan. I found myself doing much of the same to keep the chaos down to a manageable roar and meet expectations hers and mine.
Life happens and life’s challenges have a way of showing us we should remain flexible. I find now I can relax a bit. Have a plan B and adapt as needed. There was a time when planning was a quite bit more complex.
Did your wife resist your d being gay before she decided on her new religion, or after?
was that an issue for you guys? Did she blame you? Herself?
Evil friends?
When we were first married gay, straight, bi, tall, short, thin, fat, black, brown, white were not topics. Generally in talking about people she did not use descriptors that classified people. One of the things I admired about her was her apparent lack of prejudices. She didn’t stereotype.
When our daughter came out W first took the news and denied it. “It was a phase, experimentation. She isn’t gay she’s bi. She doesn’t know what she is. She just needs to meet the right man. We should help her decide.”
Anger ensued, particularly when our daughter hooked up with someone who was abusive and took advantage of her. That relationship took about 5 years to run its course and about another 3 for our daughter to resolve within herself. There is the evil friend. I believe our actions contributed to our daughter’s choice of partner and her estrangement from our family during this time.
After the relationship broke up and our daughter began recovery, X had expectations our daughter had learned her lesson. Our marriage was crumbling by this time. My lack of enthusiasm to again participate in our daughters rescue was just another friction point and I believe it was a minor one.
Our daughter is reintegrating into the family with the last holdout being X. They have their challenges. I am glad our daughter is able to maintain a healthy outlook though this. She vents to others mostly. Her aunts, DIL and one cousin.
DIL has issues related to X also. That is probably another long post. DIL’s mother is at end stage Alzheimer’s. X is part of her care team I stay out of this other than to validate when DIL expresses frustrations.
Ever feel like you’re walking a tightrope over a chasm in a high wind? I cannot allow myself to become wrapped around these axles.
Ok, so plan B then, err maybe C?
Over last weekend the extended family gathered for a baby shower. I hoped to visit with some of them. That did not happen. It was a bit of a disappointment, but several of the nieces managed to make time to visit with my mom and that was good.
S, DIL and GD were over for a little family time around the grill Monday afternoon. GD is 16 months and her personality is showing. In my opinion the next 18 months should be interesting as S and DIL transition into having a toddler. Afterwards on impulse I decide to visit an online dating site to see what the fuss was about. About three pages in I realized I had been funneled into registering and decided to stick around for a while longer. After another two pages of form I bailed. I am not ready to place that much personal information, hopes and dreams out in the public domain. At this stage it probably would be perceived as needy and needy is not attractive.
Returning to my personal plan is the better choice. I have that experience and now know some of what to expect for building a profile. And as it turns out life interceded and I need to focus elsewhere for a while.
After another medical professional reviewed mom’s CT scan it seems she has fractured one of the vertebrae in her lower back. This is likely putting pressure on several nerves causing/contributing to her pain. She is scheduled for surgery Monday. This morning was about getting her in an MRI and tomorrow is preadmission testing then another Dr’s appt tomorrow afternoon. I won’t know what the next leg of this journey is until after Mom is in recovery. I can expect some rehab, but how that will take shape or where it will happen is unknown and very dependent upon how well she tolerates anesthesia.
So here is where I will focus for awhile. Not completely, as I have my life and some goals I can work to move forward while helping.
Mom made it through surgery and tolerated the anesthesia well. She has not yet been discharged from the hospital. This morning she was sitting up in a chair and ate remarkably well. They wish to monitor her while she walks a short distance before discharge to home.
I am researching stair lifts and hope she will consider this as an option at home.
Glad to hear that surgery went well. Continuing to send prayers your way.
Good to hear your mom's surgery went well.
My mom is entering her third week in hospital. She was admitted on the 20th of May due to excruciating pain causing her difficulty walking. Finally find out the pain is caused by hip deterioration. Waiting on emergency hip replacement hopefully by end of week or early next.
Definitely life altering for people who loose their mobility like this. She was adamant she did not want to move. Now, the folks will probably have to move, just for mobility and medical needs as they're aging.
How old is your mom?
hope your mom is doing ok stunned,
Semper Fidelis
The reason they got rid of the edit button, 25, is because, once they decided they didn't want people contacting each other offline (probably a liability issue), people tried to circumvent it by posting their contact information for a minute and then deleting it after the other party had copied it down.
That's why they disabled the edit function.
thanks. This actually makes sense...but I still think I want the edit button. But I will process and ponder it more.
Thank you again!
JS
glad to hear your mom did well AND tolerated the anesthesia well.
(H is an anesthesiologist. When I was hospital counsel I once heard a surgeon tell a patient that "anesthesia is a little like a potion we can't always predict"...but, um, it's actually science. And the surgeon had perforated the liver of the patient in question. If I had not heard his "blame the anesthesia POTION" story myself, I would not have believed it...but I digress).
You sound remarkably serene JS. That's a good strong place to be.
((( )))
Thank you all for your caring concern. This means a lot to me. I have not been able to focus much on this board recently.
@Val: Thank you for your continued prayers. I appreciate it. I believe actions like these contribute to positive outcomes. There is more to this than there is time to post.
@Kaffe: I am sorry to hear about your Mom. I’ll add her to my thoughts and prayers. My mom tells me to never get old and that only the first 100 years are the hardest.
I hope her hip replacement is without incident and she recovers quickly. If this is her only infirmity the change following recovery can be dramatic. Believe in the best outcome and work toward it. Maintaining independence and self determination is a strong aspect of this culture. As people lose the ability to do so generally they often place great emphasis on aspects of life they can control. It is important to keep them as part of the process as much as possible.
My mother is 86.
@gunny: She is better than she was and she’ll continue to improve in the coming months. The goal today is simple walk 10 feet and pivot. It is attainable.
Semper Fidelis
@25:”Anesthesiologist” makes a little more sense now why he had to deploy again. Good ones are a rare breed. There is a lot of science backing what medical professionals do and there is some art to it also. Sometimes the variables presented by the individual patients make what they do considerably less cookie cutter.
Mom has asthma and chronic bronchitis, since she was a teenager, severe enough to warrant a COPD diagnosis. She has never used tobacco and does not have emphysema. Some of her triggers are mold spores, dust mites, animal dander. It is difficult to remember a time when she did not have some issue breathing. She has been under general anesthesia before and each time her care team has shown concern as a result. How well she breathes following a procedure is a marker for me what the next few days are likely to be like.
Journaling: We brought mom home late yesterday. I was concerned as we left the hospital what the next few days are going to be. There was no stated plan other than the aftercare form from the surgery center and what my daughter and I had loosely discussed.
A representative from the hospital called after we arrived at home and inquired how well mom was doing. We now have some PT and a visiting nurse scheduled through next week. We’ll evaluate at the end of next week planning the next steps.
DIL will visit with GD on a loose schedule. A family friend will fill a couple of hours Thursday afternoon. My sister is schedule in at the beginning of next month. The church mom belongs to is volunteering to stop by and bring a few meals. My daughter and I have split up the rest of this week. We’ll muddle through what we haven’t planned and deal with the crisis’s as they come up.
The stairlift company is sending a “consultant” I’m hearing salesman to the house next Tuesday. The biggest hurdle is getting mom to accept this assistance. Funding is a secondary concern. I cannot explain why she has always been resistant other than to point to lessons from the change resistant curve.
Mom passed this morning. I'm still processing. Life changes again.
So sorry for you and your family. Take care.
I am so sorry for your loss. Your family is in my thoughts and prayers.
Oh wow, I'm so sorry JS.
Truly sorry for your loss. May the knowledge that she is in the arms of a loving God, bring you some comfort in this time of loss.
And it is a big loss.
((( )))
JS,
I'm sooo sorry darling. Please take care of yourself. You're in my thoughts.
(((( ))))
So sorry for your loss. Hold on to your memories and take time to grieve - it is never easy to lose your mother.
Barb
Stunned,
I am truly sorry for your loss, God Bless!!
Gunny
Thank you all. The last few days have been tumultuous and will continue to be so for some time to come. That is for us who have remained, to pass through.
Most people ask what happened.
The short answer is she felt or saw an opportunity to pass and loosened her hold on this life. I have heard terms like “slipping these bonds” used to describe this transition and her death was very much like that. That is the moment of her death was like that. She let go of this life. I honored her wishes. I let her go.
The long answer requires a bit more history and detail. I was present and I have a good memory. I’d rather not. She had good days Wednesday and Thursday. Friday morning was not such a good day and she was transported to a local Emergency Center. While she was in the ED she declined rapidly over three hours. She was coherent and speaking weakly with me 10 minutes before she passed. She was not alone. She did not struggle. I informed the attending she was DNR, comfort measures only. I began making telephone calls and asked if they could hold her body for family to view and say goodbye.
I sat with her body for about half an hour. Then waited for son, DIL, GD and daughter. SIL1 arrived with XSIL3 from Texas and took GD to babysit. Daughter was the last to arrive and we broke the news to her after she arrived. The children viewed their Grandmother’s body made their goodbyes and I released it to the mortuary. My sister arrived the next day and we’ve begun to clean and make arrangements.
Mom preplanned and paid for her service, still there are details and we were required to confirm the body was moms. Sister was not able to make her goodbyes and Mom wished for cremation so this was in a way fortunate. Most of the family assets were placed in a trust in 1995 and a limited partnership was created with sister and I as trustees for the benefit of mom, dad, and 1 other sister.
With mom’s passing the partnership is dissolved. My sister and I have contacted the estate planner to see what options we have establishing another partnership until we determine dispositions of the assets. Tentatively we’re trying to work out a way for my daughter, son, DIL and GD to use Mom’s house until they are better situated.
It all sounds like it is tied up nice and neat. I assure you it is not. Loose ends abound, the adult children are grieving and with frayed nerves are exhibiting some immaturity. Frankly they may not be able to occupy the same house peaceable. My sister and I are both strong personalities and we could easily come to loggerheads. I think we both know it and are putting extra effort into preventing conflict. The rest of this month will be long and emotionally arduous.
I don’t know if I will be able to make time to post again soon. Mom was very special to me and many others. I’ll be working on a eulogy for her memorial service at the end of this month.
Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers.
Thanks for the update, JS. Take care of yourself. Times like these are stressful enough without the loose ends. Do what you need to take care of those as you are well equipped to do so.
Truly sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing. You are not alone. Again, I am sorry. It must be very hard and you sound strong.
Again, Thank You all for your condolences and support. I don't know how much time I will have in the near term to contribute here.
Mom’s memorial service was yesterday. Her church family arranged most of the service and the fellowship afterward. Several of my in-laws attended and SIL2 offered her memories. My daughter delivered a eulogy; I and my sister did not. There were many memories shared by the congregation.
She touched so many lives. So many memories.
We have a few weeks remaining to ready her home for occupancy. I do not know if the kids will be able to make their plans work. They have been squabbling one minute and laughing the next. They are focusing on minute details and most of the conflict is related to this change and the speed it has arrived in. There is some misplaced anger and feelings of inequality. I think these are outgrowths of differences in their grieving processes. I arbitrated one discussion and while I thought some conflict was resolved it boiled back up the next day.
This is not a place I can or should focus. I saw a need to move a conversation past a sticking point and offered to help. This is not something I will do routinely. They are adults and normally are capable of working through their differences.
My sister is in town this week and I must work the first three days. She is going through small items and making telephone calls filling my schedule and obligating me. Of this I am certain. It needs to be done and if she can schedule these meetings while she is in the area I will not need to spend extra time telling her how each of them went. We are 50/50 partners in this estate. So the more details we work through together the better.
Oddly I feel serene most of the time. There is some sadness still, but overall I am surprised by how fast and far I believe I have come through the change curve and grieving process. Doubtless some fresh challenge or insult will arrive to disturb me. I expect to be challenged and feel overwhelmed again. For right now though I will enjoy a minute’s peace.
Hang in there stunned, I have no doubt you will handle this next challenge with the same poise and grace you handled the previous one, my thoughts are with you,
JS,
Sorry to hear about your Mom. It's never a good time to lose a parent, is it?
I know feelings are raw, but it's good that you and your sister are committed to working together. You're all you have left, and that's hard.
Take care-
Betsey
I am so sorry for your loss. take care of yourself.
Hi JS. I haven't been on the bb for a couple of months, and yours was one of the first threads I went to. I am so sorry about your mom passing. I never knew her, but by your posts, she seemed to be a very caring, sensitive soul. May she rest in peace. I'm glad she wasn't alone at the moment of passing.
The emotional part is bad enough without the post death stresses of the division of the estate. But, you will get through this.
Take care.
Thank You.
My thank you is heartfelt and sincere.
I have said thank you so many times to so many people over the past month I fear I sound mechanical and text does not convey emotion well.
The gamut of emotions continues. Mostly I’m good, much better than when X left.
I am not able to complete a eulogy for her. My emotions are too raw still. She was an anchor, a calm harbor and an inspiration during some of my worst emotive times. This is a void now. Yet I do not feel the sense of loss and identity like before.
I have privately speculated what my life would be like if I had been able to respect X wishes for a DNR on our relationship. To just accept that this is what she wished and not interfere from the moment she decided to leave our world.
My father was on only child and mom was the last surviving child. My sister and I remain. There is a sense of leadership here. Perhaps that is not the right word. I feel more so than before a responsibility to demonstrate an example to my children and those around me how to go forward.
As I have examples I hope to be an example. What would Chesty do? What would Chamberlain do? What would mom and dad do? These are not so much a standard to compare against as an example to gain ideas from. Time will tell and how well I do will be demonstrated by my children and perhaps grandchildren.
This is a chapter close much like my divorce was and like my divorce there are aspects remaining to settle. I just received the court paperwork appointing me executor. I have not looked at those yet. I understand there is a timeline and steps to follow. Those should be spelled out and my sister and I engaged an attorney specializing in estate law. There could easily be years of effort if I allow myself to dally.
Time for me to return to that work and complete a few more tasks.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.
S, DIL and GD were to have moved in with me. It was agreed upon they should move into Mom’s house. D has been living there for 12 years and feels as though she should not have roommates.
It is not her house and she has not managed her funds well. At this point she is a poor college student. She is not able to afford the anticipated utilities.
Immaturity abounds as DIL feels she should not have to support D and wants D to pay half of the utilities. S, DIL and GD will live with D in a large home for the cost of utilities and groceries. Of course they have to clean and maintain it. I will assume responsibility for repairs and property taxes. I view this as a good deal for all parties. They’re sniping at each other, go figure.
A couple of days ago D was angrily venting and I stumbled. I began to use personal accusatory phrases such as “You need to…” As I was saying these I realized what I was doing, stopped and about an hour later apologized. Yesterday D was venting again, I described her tone and words as appearing victim like and reminded her I could not solve her issue. Better.
She is not happy. This is not my issue. This is an opportunity for growth. I will not dance upon the triangle.
Yesterday, DIL asked X to babysit. Afterwards she was critical of the manner X babysat. I said nothing.
This weekend I moved the content of my father’s office. The man was a meticulous record keeper. Records going back to the mid 50s will occupy my time and shredder. Of more immediate concern is Mom’s lack of organized record keeping and getting the utilities squared away. The kids are almost moved in and I have reminded D her brother will have orders elsewhere in less than two years.
Yesterday was the first evening in recent memory I did not visit my parents home, either to clean up or to keep Mom Company. She liked visits and conversation. (Quality Time).
Before she passed she wanted to watch the two children next door and GD pick out a pumpkin. We spoke about turning some ground over and planting a small garden to accomplish this. After discussing it she decided it would be too much work for me and she would feel bad not being able to help.
I’ve rototilled a patch of ground west of that house and put in a few squash, peppers and two pumpkin hills. Yesterday I watered it and checked for insects. A couple of the squash plants are setting fruit and the pumpkins are running, the peppers seem spindly and I’m a little worried about the stalks if they begin to set fruit. I might have to stake them.
DIL was all about the garden when it was a fantasy. Now she states “I don’t do dirt”. I just smile. I didn’t put it in for her. I’d like to help GD pick out a pumpkin also.
Mom was all about the visit. She’d put up with maintenance or cleaning for a while. Eventually she’d insist on the visit. Helpful in what I am doing now was the times we spent going over business aspects of the estate. We were not actively farming, but we were leasing and maintaining.
Hopefully in a few weeks I will be able to put more time into working on my life. My plan calls for completing one more item on the bucket list before the snow flies. There is no shortage of distractions and other things that need doing. It is a matter of priorities.
Last night I thought the other shoe had dropped.
D came by to do laundry. While she was there she told me DIL had finally come to the conclusion she could not do it all herself and asked for help. X and SIL2 were helping DIL clean the apartment they had been living at. From her tone and body language I took these statements as passive aggressive sniping. Not wanting to get drawn into the lets bash DIL fest I thought about my reply and kept it neutral. D then launched into the last argument she had with DIL.
It seems DIL wishes to host a family holiday while living at the house inviting X and her entourage. I gather it was a bit of a row. D and X are not cordial. D wants to have a haven. Her world has been upset and she is carrying a bit of anxiety.
I do not trust X. To be honest I have not been able to achieve a level of forgiveness that would allow me to have any comfort about her being inside this house.
The vehemence of my emotive response surprised me.
D and DIL are still sniping at each other. It is possible DIL brought up the holiday idea to push a few buttons. Thinking it through there is a possibility D was pushing buttons to enlist me. There is the possibility she just needed to vent. There is the possibility she feels lost and adrift and is looking for comfort and grounding.
I spoke with her about it later in the evening. I think the last thought is likely. The footing here is not firm. So best to proceed slowly, cautiously. I want to provide a safe place without enabling an escalation.
I need to work on detaching more here. It was the “She wants to invite X” comment that set me off.
I went to the house and moved some items from the basement, afterward I spent a few minutes speaking with DIL. Our conversation centered upon what I was moving and what items remained. She vented about feeling overwhelmed and I just let her.
Detached here? Check. In retrospect validation would have been better.
IMO she is causing her own feelings. She is trying to complete the move by tomorrow night. She has arranged to spend the rest of the month 200 mi away visiting her father.
Many days will pass between now and the Christmas holidays. Many things can occur in that time. I reminded myself and D when I spoke with her last night. It is best not to get wrapped up in these emotions thinking about what might happen. She agreed and said she thinks DIL and her are working through the anger phase of grieving. She thinks they see each other as safer to express anger to than me or S and that is why they have been going at it every other day or so.
I told her DIL may be attempting to establish boundaries without stating them. When DIL and S lived with me last year she would push much like a teenager does. We eventually found a place we could grow from.
Tonight? Tomorrow night? This weekend? Eh, who know. Just take it as it comes. Focus on what is good for me.
DIL is in MI visiting; S is working and trying to finish moving. He thinks the break is good for all as DIL was getting overwhelmed. D is finishing her second ASL class trying to bring up her GPA, working, trying to clean and help her brother finish moving. They will share a kitchen and that seems to be the focus right now.
S told me he thinks this will work as he thinks DIL is beginning to realize some less visible benefits such as another adult present more often to speak with. I like his attitude and hope he is correct. D seems a bit more at ease. Time will tell after DIL returns.
I have begun the fudicrary process for the estate. I wish the L was more helpful. He gave me a checklist to complete and has taken a couple of calls when I asked for advice. This like most things is similar to peeling an onion. I’ve got a handle on it. I just wish I didn’t have to do it.
I’m back to GAL. I think I GAL different than most. I’ve returned to a couple of projects begun this spring that are in danger of becoming overdue. The most physically demanding is getting the shed built. I’m just about done clearing the area and can start on setting a base.
The plan calls for me to build it from a kit. I could set the base and have one delivered already built or contract to have one built on site, but it is the labor that is my GAL. I like the feeling of accomplishment when it is done. One of the hold ups has been an old Elm tree that died last year. Felling it proved more effort than anticipated.
At the beginning of Mom’s last week DIL visited with GD. Mom’s pain was managed well that day and they had a really pleasant visit. Mom was very happy. During the visit DIL spied a millipede crossing the floor near her feet. She freaked out as this two inch creature passed nearby causing quite a stir until it was dispatched.
On Mom’s last day while she was laying on the floor waiting for the ambulance she spied another one matching the first crawling across the ceiling. From this position she stated we should call DIL to come over and dispatch it. DIL is maybe five foot four inches tall.
At the ER during intake Mom informed the staff her major issue was she was sixteen, pregnant with twins and not knowing who the father was placing her in a bind. This was Mom’s sense of humor.
Mostly I'm good.
JustStunned, I love the way you write, it feels as if I were in the rooms with you. I am sorry for your loss and am happy to hear how you are dealing with all the emotions involved.
I’ve been taking steps to move forward recently.
There were two items left linking X and myself legally. The first was a mutual fund. It was listed in the divorce paperwork and I had provided X with her half as part of our settlement.
The mutual fund company was not willing to change ownership based on the documentation submitted.
X was not willing to sign their documentation. She wanted half of the remaining balance.
I stewed in it for a bit, then, acquiesced. It is a small amount, and not worth the fight. The account was barely above the minimum needed to maintain it and all of that came from recent gains. In retrospect I should have simply closed it when I gave her half the first time. I am beyond caring if she counts coup on this.
The mutual fund company has lost a long time customer as I am shifting to a using a performance fee based fund manager through work.
The second item is the RV. We chose it to fit our desires. It was jointly titled. We are no more. It was a reminder and not one I could easily divest myself of. We were upside down at the time of the D. I retained it and used the liability to negate another asset. I have been attempting to become right side up with it.
I reached break even a couple of months ago and have used it as a trade in on something better suited to my lifestyle and the direction I desire to go. The replacement will be a budget strain for a bit, however I am excited about it and the possibilities it offers to me. The best part is there are no memories tied to the new unit, only future opportunities.
The drama between the children seems to be easing. There is work still getting them moved in and settling the estate seems drowned in a quagmire. Those are small frustrations that will either become worked out or not.
The house is next door, 200 feet distant, the yards are separated by trees and scrub bushes. It is easy for me to visit and I have not. This is difficult sometimes. I don’t view this as martyring myself; rather I believe we will all be healthier if I maintain some separation while they settle in.
I have been asked to sit with GD on Friday evening while the kids go out.
I reached break even a couple of months ago and have used it as a trade in on something better suited to my lifestyle and the direction I desire to go. The replacement will be a budget strain for a bit, however I am excited about it and the possibilities it offers to me. The best part is there are no memories tied to the new unit, only future opportunities.
Meaning - Yosemite trip next summer???
I haven’t made specific plans yet. I was surprised how close Yosemite is to MWTC. One of the routes even passes through Bridgeport. I remember fondly training on the mountains in the snow, but I have no real desire to visit the training center, Yosemite Valley on the other hand…
The last trip west was with X. We went as far as the Grand Canyon and Bryce before turning east. I used to be quite destination driven, now not so much. I’ve had several friends do a “walkabout” and I am seriously considering it. Taking the time from work is the challenge. I am planting seeds with my boss about taking at least two consecutive weeks next summer.
Babysitting GD went very well last Friday. She had a cold hanging on a bit, but she was in a good mood. We played outside a bit, inside a bit, went for a walk with the dogs and generally were active enough that she went to sleep easy. We had a bit of quiet time while I rocked her prior to putting her to bed. The kids had a good time and were happy when they got home.
Saturday I picked up the new rig. It is new to me and after going over it more closely I don’t think the previous owners utilized their purchase much. The more I go over it the more I want to camp it soon. It is five feet longer than the previous unit. I need practice backing this unit and to get the level indicators set.
Yesterday DIL, GD and D visited me briefly. DIL has a foundling cat in desperate need of a vet visit and wanted to know if I my relationship with the vet would score her a serious discount. I doubt my vet will do charity work based upon the business relationship I have with her. DIL vented frustration offering me an opportunity to validate.
The upshot of the whole visit is I have a standing invitation to stop by and visit whenever. DIL asked why I have not visited more and I tried to explain I thought it healthier to give them space while they moved in. DIL seemed to discount this. I am just glad I have an invitation.
Have you ever heard guests and fish have something in common, after three days both begin to smell?
I will be careful so as not to make my visits onerous or odorous.
I’ve been off participating in a continuous improvement meeting at work. This qualifies as one of those “Be careful what you ask for” things as they are mentally exhausting. It was not my first and I did not ask to participate. This does not matter, one rolls up their sleeves and participates, participates, participates.
It would have been better for me to have this meeting last week. Aug 7th was our anniversary and the day did not pass without notice. I don’t know why this year was more difficult than last. It just was. I could have used the distraction.
Last week DIL asked if X could come to the house. This was a continuation off her discussion/argument with D about the same subject. It shifted from family holidays (Thanksgiving and Christmas) to GD birthday and babysitting hand offs. It does seem draconian to argue against X picking up GD for babysitting and inconvenient for DIL to travel to X’s house. I could see her point and relented I will consider the birthday party some more. I expect to relent on that also. I need to become comfortable with it first. It isn’t right to hinder or prevent GD from interactions with her Grandmother. DIL offered to rent a hall or use a community center for the birthday party. From my POV this seemed to be a lot to ask of her just because I am having an issue with X.
X in that house will take some meditation.
I meet X tomorrow morning to cash the check from the mutual fund company. How that interaction goes will influence my decision. The last time she was deeply in replay and so unnaturally happy she seemed high. Perhaps she will perceive reality differently this time. IDK. Tomorrow isn’t here yet.
I’m not worried about it. It will be what it will.
Good Luck today. Hope things go okay with X.
Thanks. Okay is about all it went. She was angry, but on a bright note did not verbally express her anger. Actually she verbalized very little. Her body language spoke volumes. She left without speaking as soon as she had her deposit receipt. If I had to put a word to it I would pick rude.
I was hoping we could begin to move to something amicable. There are weddings and birthday parties in our future and amicable would be nice.
This was the very last piece of legal documentation linking us and it feels good to break that link. I think it was healthy for me to do so.
DIL, S and GD are in MI visiting DILs family and watching a (cruising?). I don’t know if that is the correct word. There is a street near Flint where people show off cars they have modified or restored on this weekend. X and I went there once to pick up DILs and S. People drive slowly up this street for miles through towns North of Detroit. It has a fair like atmosphere.
After meeting X I returned to Mom’s house to work on the laundry room. Mom used an old Maytag wringer washing machine and a double deep sink to do laundry. Not for about the last five years. X and I and then just I had been doing them. The washing machine and sinks needed to be removed. So DIL can move her machines in.
The sink is concrete and it is removed. An appliance dolly, logging chain, come along winch, cargo strapping and a convenient overhead beam were instrumental accomplishing its removal from the basement. A sledgehammer and wheelbarrow would have been easier. I looked at removing it intact as a challenge
Tomorrow I plumb the gas line for the dryer and a drain line for the washing machine. Hopefully the supply lines installed years ago will be convenient to the washing machine, else I’ll have to reposition or plumb new ones. Adventures I home ownership, it’s always something.
About cycling again last week, I am surprised I am still grieving the loss of that R to this extent. I guess it is b/c so much of my identity was tied up in that R. I imagine I will for some time to come yet. It is normal I think to grieve a loss when we are reminded of it and then continue living. Perhaps breaking another link with X will help bind that wound.
Gas line is installed and leak tested. Drain line is installed. I opted to use standard 1/2 inch black pipe for the gas line and 2 inch PVC for the drain. I am waiting to speak with S and DIL about the position of the supply lines. I may just reposition them anyway to save headaches in the future. It is a matter of how soon DIL wants to move her units in and if they can tolerate the water supply shutoff while I do so.
D was over Saturday night. She was accepted back into a nursing program and begins classes in a few weeks. This time the campus is on the other side of Cleveland. She is not happy with the commute, but her concern is tempered with being back in the program a year earlier than she had anticipated.
She told me X informed DIL what my income level is. I do not know why or in what context this information was exchanged. I am somewhat irritated that it was. Briefly I wondered if she told DIL what her spousal support is or how she lowered her income level prior to the D to increase it. That is a snarky path and it is best if I do not walk it.
I feel I deserve my salary. I work for it. I have worked to attain this position. I work to improve it. The path I took, the time and effort it requires/required is typical.
Hunting season is just around the corner. I have been target practicing for form since May. Now it is past time to get serious.
Last March I purchased a raffle ticket and won a Savage .17HMR right handed bolt action. I had little use for the rifle and opted for a store gift card instead. It became arrows, broad heads, new camo and a few other items. Like most recreational things bow hunting is an accessory heavy sport. I totaled the cost of the gear I wear/carry once and was astonished. Of course it should be amortized and the recreational value is difficult to place a value on. Think of it this way each arrow in my quiver represents an initial cost of about $25.00 and I wait for sales.
Dear JS,
You sound good. We all just stepping on! Hunting sounds fun.
We arrange for bow hunters to come in and kill the nuisance boars who terrorize us when they come down from the mountains.
Keep up the great attitude. You seem like a nice guy, good to your family.
Aloha,
Wendy
Thanks Wendy, I am just winding my way down this path.
The other day it occurred to me I have stopped comparing how happy I was then to how miserable I am now. Rather now I find positives to think about, futures to come and things to be glad for.
Part of that come from my parents. They were raised during the depression and had some emotional setbacks. They were previously divorced and could have dwelled in that misery or reminisced to memories before the depression.
While I was growing up they focused on comparisons of how much better life was now and how it could be better still. We were always looking to the future. They taught the future was limited by how much effort we put into it. (Still don’t have my flying car, or left a footprint on the moon.
)
As an adult I learned more. They took off the colored glasses and spoke frankly about some of their trials. It made them human and as an adult I came to see them as such. They were courageous individuals and overcame a lot to provide my sisters and me with the lives we have/had.
I have not gotten to “I am so happy and grateful she left enabling me to…..” yet. It is a possibility, I am just not there yet, another point on the path.
I babysat Saturday for about 6 hours. GD and I went to the park and played for about an hour and a half. She ate well and tried to potty for me. By the time the day was done she was ready for bed. At eighteen months she pretty much can tell me what she wants to do next. She is beginning to assert her personality and required distraction a couple of times to avoid a tantrum.
She tried to follow the older kids on the play set at the park. There I was at the side of the tall slide encouraging her and committing to catch her as she slid down. Later she decided she needed to chin herself on the monkey bars.
She met two therapy dogs who’s owners were walking though with. Babysitting was pretty much the highlight of my weekend.
This post is just an update. This is just life. There is little drama here unless I choose to make it so. Most of this is about DIL as I was off work last week and spent some time with her and GD
You can plumb a gas line, but the kids don’t have to connect to it.
After bringing her washer and dryer from storage, DIL and I determined they should be replaced. I suspect the transmission in her washer was damaged during one of its trips across the country. The machine would fill and pump out, but the agitator and drum would not cycle. It also smoked a little and gave off an acrid odor. I suspect the motor overheated and melted insulation a little before destroying the transmission.
The new dryer is electric, necessitating installation of a power line for it. She and I went to the local big box store and purchased what I thought was needed to run the power line and the next day after about three hours work it was installed.
I foolishly made the final connection to the breaker box while it was hot. Nothing came of it and I threw each of the breakers prior to making the individual connections. I just didn’t throw the mains. DIL did not understand my reference to dimming lights, but it’s all good. She didn’t op check the new units. It has been a week and I expect I would have heard by now if something wasn’t working.
DIL’s cat passed. To be truthful it was ill and at the end of its life. I think it would have been better to permit the vet to euthanize it.
DIL chose a different route and created some self inflicted pain. She called me on Wednesday and asked me to babysit while she comforted her cat. I found out later she euthanized it herself using Vicodin. She was very upset by the time it was done. She had time to contemplate the effect of her actions and I think that added to her grieving. I helped her bury the cat and made myself available. I don’t know if I helped her much. She has made quite a memorial underneath a dogwood tree next to the house.
I have begun construction of a storage shed. Using some of the wood I re-tasked from work. Some of the shipping containers are reinforced with 2X6’s. It took a little more time to accumulate enough pieces than I initially anticipated, but this GAL project is underway. I hope to have it completed before the snow flies. I need to determine a method to raise the two side wall I have constructed. They are a bit heavier than I can manage myself.
I have been doing a bit of introspection lately. This probably sounds arrogant. It is my truth.
X made a mistake. She is an intelligent woman and no one sets out to make a bad decision. Yet IMO she did. Whether she acknowledges this to herself or not is immaterial she can believe what she wishes to. It is enough that this is my truth and believing it I can cease abusing myself over her decision.
All four walls of the storage shed are up, two are sheathed. I arranged for S to come by and help me raise the two long walls. When he would be able to was pretty ambiguous and I began to attempt another solution. That did not work out so well and I was grateful for his help as he arrived while I was cleaning up after my first attempt to raise a wall by myself.
I tried to use ropes, a winch and an A frame I had previously built for another purpose. The anchor point on the lower right corner of the wall failed and it partially slid off of the decking. Nothing broke and no one was injured so getting back on track wasn’t difficult. It just required another person and cooperative effort. Like many other things in life.
I am debating whether or not to have the roofing trusses built or to do it myself. I have enough lumber. It is time and how I would raise them if I build them from 2X6s. The lumberyard will use 2X4s (lighter and easier to raise). They will likely have the trusses built before I will. The only real issue is how much value I place upon doing it myself and the intrinsic strength of the larger 2X6s I would use. It will be a gambrel roof and I like the challenge of laying it out myself. The lumberyard already has a purpose built jig to lay out theirs. I would have to do the layout and prototype one on the floor decking of the shed. It’s time, money and personal satisfaction.
Most people thought I was nuts to build my house too, no worries.
A positive outcome of this weekend is DIL asking me stop by more often to spend time with her, S and GD. I’ve been trying to give them space as they adjusted to their new living arrangement. Apparently I have been absent too much. I am glad this is working out.
There is still a little personal drama present; I doubt it will ever go away completely. There are occasional reminders that we used to be a couple and they have given me pause. For instance the other day I heard a coworker use the names other people referred to us as and my heart skipped for a moment. She wasn’t referring to us it was just what I heard outside of my office. It was like a smell will trigger a memory and take one back briefly. I expect X has these moments too. It is what it is.
I spent a few days last week contemplating if I feel ready to move on from this state. I have begun to interact more on a social level, mostly with co workers. These are people who I already have a business relationship with. A captive audience of sorts. Nothing onerous or annoying after all these are people I work with. Mostly I am just relaxing and letting down a barrier or two with more people than I normally do. In the past I have heard the comment that there is a work JS and a play JS. I’m trying to let play JS see the light of day more often if that makes any sense. I have no idea where this will lead I am just letting it play out. Trying to be a happier more upbeat person, less serious and focused.
Sounds like all good things JS.
Triggers will happen. They aren't fun but thankfully they get less painful over time. I'm not sure they will ever go away though.
I too used to have two different personalities. I thought being a serious and focused person made a good leader. It still does but it must also be balanced with a loving leader. It's been interesting to watch my life shift as I become more of a loving leader with serious moments.
Play with it a bit more... I think you will find out that you too will like the play JS more.
At work and a friend of mine just asked “How’s it going”
My reply:
“Sun is shining, sand is hot, the drink in my hand is cold, waves are lapping at the sand.
There is the scent of coconut oil in air and the beach bar is playing reggae. It’s another day in paradise!”
Must be having flashbacks
The lumberyard will consume just about my entire construction budget for the trusses and the lead time to delivery is four weeks. I guess they have to wait for the trees to grow first. So I’ll be building the trusses. I’ve never laid out a Gambrel roof, but there are plenty of web references.
Buckminster Fuller said: “There is no such thing as a failed experiment, only experiments with unexpected outcomes” So what will I learn from building these trusses?
All is not sunshine and lollipops. I spent a little time feeling sorry for myself last weekend. After stewing in it and attempting to determine why I have come to the conclusion I need more work, more healing. I think I have not completely left behind co dependant tendencies.
The trigger was a feeling of abandonment. Most of last week was spent with DIL, GD, S and D, when they were available. DIL made a point of inviting me over each evening after work. At mid week she and S ask me to make a point of spending more time. S will get orders in about a year and probably leave the area in about 18 months. We made plans to have dinner Saturday evening.
Saturday evening came and went and I perceived my reaction as more intense than it should have been. I didn’t mention it to the kids. I didn’t create drama. I got over it and analyzed why.
As Val said triggers happen. This wasn’t about a failed relationship. This was about my reaction to this event and how to improve myself. Actually I am proud of how I handled myself particularly in light of X’s birthday Sunday. It is possible the kid’s time was consumed with her birthday, maybe not, it doesn’t matter. What matters is my level of disappointment Saturday.
Saturday night I went out, changing the scenery. I bypassed the bars and ended up in Wal-Mart of all places. I picked up a few needed items and amused myself in the frozen foods isle. How? It seems they have installed motion sensors that trigger the lights inside the cases as one approaches. Sometimes the simplest things amuse us.
JS,
One of my former BB buds (now a friend in real life) suggested I read Journey from Abandonment to Healing. It was a massive source of enlightenment to me, and kind of knocked me on my butt for awhile. You might be ready for the introspection as well.
Warning, keep Kleenex close by. I remember a lot of tears as I read....
For what it's worth, I spent a lot of time in IC dealing with this issue. It didn't truly get resolved until I finished the book and did some exercises and souls searching. I'm now at the point where I can abandon people and situations that aren't good for me, because I'm no longer afraid.
Good luck!
Betsey
Thanks Betsey!
I have a copy in my kindle. I began reading it early in my sitch and put it down for a long while. I’ve been through it once since then and tried some of the exercises. It is time to do it again with more conviction.
I was looking forward to dinner and spending time that way with them and I understand disappointment is normal.
What I felt and stewed in was darker. I didn’t stay there long. I feel I should be able to avoid permitting disappointment to devolve.
You are right it is a good book and I will get more out of it.
By the by I hear “There’s not need to fear…” play in my mind when I read your screen alias.
JS,
I loved that cartoon myself. Uh, I also loved Wally Cox.
But I really chose that screen name way back when because I root for underdogs. I like a good comeback story. While I didn't get my marriage back, I got a new and better me. I'm definitely not sorry about that.
When I read through the book the first time, I just read it for concepts. Then when I did the exercises, I had to dig deep. I remember being really surprised about the origin of that feeling for me (it went way back to small childhood) and how it manifested itself for me through the years and relationships. Ultimately, because of that fear, I wound up accepting behaviors from others that are clearly wrong just because I was afraid of losing more. Now that I'm past it, it makes me cringe. But I understand the why behind it now much, much better.
I'm not saying I'm cured or anything either. I'm sure that it's still lurking in other ways.
Another one that worked well with this one is Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway. Easy, short read... really tough exercises. I liked to put myself in the middle of emotional boot camp back then. Now? Not so much.
Good luck!
Betsey