Divorcebusting.com
How pale is the sky that brings forth the rain
As the changing of seasons prepares me again
For the long bitter nights and the wild Winter day
My heart has grown cold my love stored away
My heart has grown cold my love stored away

I've been to the mountain left my tracks in the snow
Where souls have been lost and the walking wounded go
I've taken the pain no girl should endure
But faith can move mountains of that I am sure
Faith can move mountains of that I am sure

Get me through December
A promise I'll remember
Just get me through December
So I can start again

No divine purpose brings freedom from sin
And peace is a gift that must come from within
I've looked for the love that will bring me to rest
Feeding this hunger beating strong in my chest
Feeding this hunger beating strong in my chest

Get me through December
A promise I'll remember
Just get me through December
So I can start again

The first rain has me in a introspective mood I guess. smile

Birthday was good. It was the 28th. Had a good weekend, although got quite a bit done around the house so I feel pretty beat instead of rested.

Put a bunch of pics up in the alt.

Don't want to be at work. Especially since my office is cold lol.
FIRST!

Those active, working around the house weekends will sure take it out of you won't they? UGH!

Hope you warmed up!
YAY! grin I think you need a drink after the way your week started off! Whatcha want?

Yes they do, but I have lights on my back patio, painting finished, a workbench in the garage and made 2 trips to Home Depot. Roger is so much help. I don't think I'd attempt any electrical stuff if he hadn't done a bunch of wiring work before (and yes, we turned off the main power to the house first grin).
LOL! We wouldn't want his hair standing on end would we??? grin

I'm thinking a good, cold beer sounds just perfect. Heck, make it a pitcher! A light lager preferably.
That can definitely be arranged. I think I'll have some pumpkin ale. These cooler mornings and clouds have me in a fall mood. smile
I love anything pumpkin!
Originally Posted By: mishka422
I love anything pumpkin!

How about if your lover calls you "pumpkin"?
Hmmm, I think that's okay. I prefer babe though. smile
Well, got some good news. My Captain's promotion packet is in! FINALLY! LOL I was only eligible 2 1/2 yrs ago, but my administrative data (primarily my eval reports) were f'd.

In other news, I started going through my old threads. I used to keep a journal, and I'd like to keep these as well. Maybe put them in a binder. I started printing them, and oh my god I can't believe how much we all wrote when we first posted! LOL
CONGRATS!!!!!! So happy for you!!! It took them 2.5 years to get this done???? That's the government for ya! HA!
Originally Posted By: MichelleLT
I started printing them, and oh my god I can't believe how much we all wrote when we first posted! LOL


You are SO right about that! Haha- It's funny to look back.

Speaking of pumpkins -- I love roasted pumpkin seeds. Random.
On the pumpkin theme, I got lazy about cooking last night and ran to Papa Murphys to pick up some pizzas to bake. They had a pepperoni pizza shaped like a jack o'lantern, so I had to get one LOL. So cute! And yummy!

Today I will have to continue the saga of printing. I think I will be able to get it finished over the weekend lol. Sheesh!

Yeah, gotta love the Army. *rolls eyes* It wouldn't be so bad if we had a decent person in admin. But we've been stuck with a series of inexperienced people who don't stick around very long. But yeah, hopefully next month! YAY! smile
Congrats on getting your "railroad tracks" soon! That's not a bad pay raise either!

I LOVE Papa Murphy's and when I was in Monterey that was an every Friday event. Sadly we don't have them here on the East Coast :-(.

BA
We have them in Kansas!! That sound good, I may have to run by there on the way home. smile

kat
BA - Too bad. I would definitely miss that. Guess I have to stay west of Kansas if I move! grin

I am definitely looking forward to the pay raise, especially since I have over 7 years TIS, so I think I'll fall into the second pay category.

Kat - enjoy! The one by my house was running a $5.99 special!
Just for the pepperoni or on all of them? Heck does it really matter?? LOL

kat
For the pepperoni jack o'lantern.

I also got a hawaiian so I had leftovers to bring to work all week. smile
Congrats, Michelle!! Great news!

Now, you'll have to come to NY and try some REAL pizza. wink
Thanks! smile

I've been to Chicago, need to do New York one day, and then Italy! I figure the Italy trip is also going to involve a detour to see Maria though. smile
My favorite Papa Murphy's was the Mediteranean Chicken De-lite - love the sun dried tomatoes and feta cheese they put on it! My girls are big Hawaiian style fans.

As for Italy, having had the good fortune to have lived in Naples for three years I can say that nothing in the US, coast-to-coast, compares to a Neopalitan Pizza - you haven't lived until you've had pizza with real mozzarella di bufala!
Caprese salad with real buffalo mozzarella is amazing, so I can only imagine how good the pizza would be! The part-skin low-fat cow milk crap doesn't even compare.

I love the Mediterranean Chicken. Such yummy stuff. I am happy to have a bf that loves Hawaiian as my previous roommate couldn't digest pork, so I went the 2 1/2 years we lived together living without most sausage (since even a lot of the chicken and beef sausage is put in pork casings the only ones we could buy were kosher), Hawaiian and pepperoni pizza, pork bacon, etc. It was probably healthier for me (other than the fact that turkey bacon has RIDICULOUS amounts of salt in it) LOL. But I'd make pizza for us sometimes, chicken and bell pepper on either the Trader Joe's wheat or garlic & herb dough.
*sigh* One of my very good friends told me that her baby sister's husband cheated on her. They have a small child, and she's a wreck of course.

So I told my friend to give her my e-mail, have her add me on facebook, whatever. That I would talk to her. She added me on fb, so I'm messaging with her about her situation. I did recommend Divorce Remedy to her, so we'll see if she's interested in DBing and the boards. She is understandably torn about whether she even wants to stay with him, although that is an option as he is terrified that he will lose her and the baby now.

What a crappy way to spend the holidays.
I'm very sorry to hear about your friend's sister! It never ceases to amaze me how these adulterer's are "terrified" of losing their families - if he was so terrified he should have kept his you know what where it belonged. Blech!

BA
Haha. I know right?

On the one hand, I know she's a bit of a spoiled brat, and I can't imagine living with her. But on the other hand, that doesn't even come close to excusing what he did. The whole thing is a mess, as per the script LOL.

In good news, I might be getting a dog! A 6 mo old (roundabouts we think) chocolate lab. Picking her up tomorrow to see how she does at the house thru the weekend. I have a feeling by Sunday my bf's "maybe, but I'm not sure I have the energy for a puppy" will be a "yes" grin
You are going to pull out the wiles, aren't you! smile
It's really not fair, you know!
Haha. I won't have to. I'm sure she'll manage just fine on her own.
Well girls just do what they have to even if they are in the canine family! smile

kat
Haha.
If it makes you feel any better Jeff, I have just fallen totally crazy about our kittens. The girl is my favorite though.

kat
My kittens are the same way. The boy is a lunatic, and a bit of a klutz. The little girl, she just looks at you, and can get away with anything. Drives me crazy.
You're just too much of a nice guy silly smile
Good thing I only have sons!
LOL Probably true!

Kelsey came home yesterday afternoon. She is still exploring and getting settled. She slept next to my side of the bed last night. We took her out right before bed and first thing this morning and she didn't have any accidents. She has started to chew on a couple things, but she's always happy to trade them for her rawhide.

She is too cute!
Well it didn't take long to win you over! smile Now let's see her work her magic on Roger. Last night before I went to bed I was watching the end of a show. Our female kitten just walked down my arm and curled up on my arm and pillow. I took them both to bed with me but in the middle of the night I thought what if they need the litter box??! smile Took them both back down but they were both very good. I think I am in heaven.

kat
LOL. She'll be inside over the winter since she's a short-hair, but in the spring and summer I'll probably leave the back door of the garage open and throw her bed in there.

She barked at a construction worker driving home yesterday. She is going to have quite a deep bark when she's all grown up. grin
Survived the weekend with the puppy. And we have no missing shoes yet. grin We did catch her with a couple though lol.

I leave tomorrow to visit my sister. Probably won't be on the boards much til after Thanksgiving. My internet access won't be too regular.

I'll miss all of you.

(((everyone)))
Have fun and a great Thanksgiving!!
Are you taking your dog too?? I hope you have a wonderful break and a Happy Thanksgiving. So glad that I found you on here and that we are friends!

love ya, kat
No, my mom and I are flying. She will be home with Roger. I will miss them both. smile

I am very glad we met too! ((((Kat))))

(((BA)))

And an early happy Thanksgiving to you all as well (except the Canadians since you already celebrated)
Happy Thanksgiving Michelle!

That's a good bf you've got there, letting you get a new puppy and then take off right away laugh

Chocolate labs are the best though. W has had two great Craigslist finds in a row now since we've been S, they're so sweet. I lost the puppy battle after 6 months with W, but when I gave in I thought a small dog would be easier. Boy was I wrong. Compared to a Jack Russell Terrier the choco labs are easy!
Thanks Jon!

Yeah, he's a keeper. smile

She's some kind of mutt (maybe a little pit bull? she's got some black spots on her tongue), but mostly choco lab. She's a sweetie, although she's got a chewing issue right now and a hole digging issue. Good personality though, and smart. She'll get there eventually. And, no more cat fights in my backyard! Yay!

Jack Russell's are such one person dogs. And so high energy. They are definitely a lot of work.

So, the trip was amazing. Took a billion photos. J/k, only like 500. grin Will sort through and get them on facebook sometime.

Had a belated Thanksgiving with my honey Saturday. Then dinner with my parents last night. Took the puppy over and introduced her. She likes my dad and brother, didn't even growl once (she's definitely a lot more hesitant with men and growls at about 75% of them).

Back at work today. It's a Monday.

Had someone back into me at a stop sign on my way to work this am. They were in front of me, put their car in reverse, backed into the front of my car, then put it in drive and took off. So I was late on my first day back at work. No serious damage though, and I'm okay. Just frustrated and distracted. Police report filed, got a partial license plate at least.

Got my new phone too. The screen on my old one died.

Now if I can just get the door of my car fixed and call my insurance company about the accident this am. I left my insurance info in my glovebox, so I can't do anything about it til tonight or tomorrow.

Hopefully my craziness for the holidays is over with now LOL.
Puppy fun - and a trip! Yep, waiting on pics.

btw, the black on the tongue means ChowChow in her history (they have completely black or purple tongues).

Hope the cops find the idiot and your insurance goes after them - maybe get all the work you need done. Watch your neck...
I was thinking Chow as well, but I learned that some pit bulls also have black tongues. As well as a couple other breeds. She has none of the long fur, head shape (i.e. short nose), nor the short legs of a chow. She does have a head that could definitely be pit bull influenced though.

Either way, her paperwork says lab mix, so that is good for my homeowners insurance lol. Which reminds me, gotta let them know I have a dog now.
Stupid edit button.

Wanted to add: hope they can track the car as well. Got a copy of the police report e-mailed to me, so I can send that to my insurance company.
Sorry that happened to you. What a welcome home present!

I am not to happy with the edit button either. My thoughts get ahead of my fingers and I make silly little typos. I liked being able to go back and fix those...now my typing errors are hung up for everyone to see. LOL

kat
I hear that!
Well, not feeling too stiff or sore today. Took a second look at my car in the light this am and still think that damage isn't too bad. Got my insurance info to call and received the e-mail with the police report attached.

Tossed and turned last night. Not sure if it was jet lag or just stress (combined with Roger insisting on sleeping on his back and snoring LOL) but it was about 1 before I finally got to sleep. I'm dragging today, but hopefully my drama is over for the rest of the year LOL.
Yea, basically just 4 weeks free of drama to qualify. smile

kat
That's doable right? grin
6 days in, how's the no drama going?
LOL!
LMAO

So far, kinda good?

Let's see, the puppy broke two of my flowerpots, dug a couple more holes in the backyard, and then one of my gutter drains plugged up so I climbed up there to clear it out. Then it replugged last night, but Roger cleaned it out for me this time. grin

Big project at work, so been super busy. But life is pretty good otherwise.
Sounds good!
No more broken things luckily, but a few more holes in the yard courtesy of the puppy.

She was so funny last night, she got up at some point and got one of Roger's slippers and took it back to her bed. I can't find any evidence of chewing, it's not even wet, but it looks like she slept on top of it. What a silly dog.
I think she is claiming Roger as hers. Boy, just what ya need, competition! lol

kat
LOL! She just wanted his scent with her. How sweet!!!!

Hope your Christmas full of fun and wonderment Michelle!
Lol. Yeah, I have some competition. How do you compete with those big brown eyes though? My ears aren't as soft either. *sigh*

Got a little christmas tree and some lights up this weekend. Made a bunch of mulled cider and listened to TSO's Christmas Eve and other stories. Can't believe it's almost Christmas already!
TSO IS AWESOME!! I took mom to their concert about 5 years ago and we loved it. What a display!
Yeah, quite an amazing show isn't it? After working retail and being stuck listening to Christmas music from the day after Halloween until Christmas Eve I can't stand traditional carols anymore. But TSO and me are good. smile
So, only one new hole in the backyard. Quite a deep one though lmao. But she did okay. She was very happy to see me when I got home. We went for a walk, and then I tried to feed her dinner but she didn't want me out of her sight. So we relaxed for a bit, then I put her out with her food until Roger got home. She was super excited to see him too. So was I, I got cold sleeping by myself and had to get an extra blanket.
LOL! It's funny how we get used to having that body heat and can't self-regulate quite as well isn't it?
Yeah, I'm spoiled, what can I say. LOL.

Since it's already Christmas Eve some places, I'll just say Merry Christmas to all now! Make it a good one, don't let the WAS/ex get to you, and enjoy the little things.

(((everyone)))
I had a nice weekend. My mom got me a tree for the house, a Japanese red maple. Roger got me a Kindle! My brother got me some earrings he forgot to remove the price tag from. LOL. Lit a fire and watched some movies, made a ham dinner and generally was lazy.

Yesterday I got the tree planted. Had to put chicken wire around it to keep the puppy from digging the soft soil back up.

Not excited to be back at work today, but what can you do. At least it's quiet since half the office is out this week. smile

Saw a friend of mine for coffee and she told me an interesting tidbit. Apparently xh contacted her last week on instant messenger. He was home from work and bored. He told her he called in sick to work because he was cleaning out his computer and found a bunch of pictures and videos of us and was reminded of his stupidity. It depressed him so much he stayed home.

Part of me thinks it's funny and karmic. I kinda want to be like, you should have thought of that 3 1/2 years ago (or even 2 1/2 yrs ago when we were dating again).

Even though I know nothing can take back the last few years, it still makes me sad. It makes me see the futility of the divorce. None of this had to happen, and I wish it hadn't. But all the king's horses and all the king's men can't put it back together again. We both have to live with the consequences of his actions.
Regrets are hard to live with. It serves him well.

You have created a wonderful life for you. Keep it that way.
Love
M
That is very true my dear. Mostly, my "regrets" are things I had no real control over. I wish he'd realized what he was doing sooner, I wish he'd swallowed his pride and actually tried to meet me halfway. Ah well.

Life is good.

Puppy dog tore some chunks of wood out of the gate yesterday and escaped. So I got a call from a utilities employee who got my cell number off her dog tags. So I left work early and then went to home depot to buy fence boards. Fun fun fun. Luckily it was pretty quick fix. And now the gate is puppy proofed.

Took my dad out to dinner for his birthday last night. Our waitress was hysterical. Rose was 81 and had a great sense of humor. When she found out it was his birthday, she sang him happy birthday in a hysterical Marilyn Monroe imitation (she has quite a good voice too) and got us a desert with a candle in it. It was quite an entertaining evening.

And I have another 3 day weekend. So, TGIF!!!!

(((Everyone)))
What a wonderful birthday dinner for you dad. That must have been a hoot!

Glad you get a 3 day weekend. Those are always welcome aren't they? smile

That is one rambunctious puppy dog you have there. smile She is going to give you fits until she's trained. They bring so much love and joy though.
Happy New Year!

Hugs, kat
Happy New Year Michelle!!
Yes, she's a handful. But so sweet and loving and smart. She's already making progress with her training, so we'll get there. smile

Did my 10k run this afternoon. It went well considering half of it was mud lol. I didn't lose a shoe (although I did tie them tight and double-knot them), I only rolled my ankle on a rock once, and I finished lol. Did it in 1 hr 17 minutes. Would have liked to be closer to an hour and 6, but with the hills and elevation I knew it probably wouldn't happen.

Came home to a clogged drain though. So my muddy, stinky self had to wait until the plumber arrived and cleaned out my pipes to get a shower. By which point there was minimal hot water left.

I think I'm going to turn the heated mattress pad on and go crawl into bed with a good book lol.

(((everyone)))
Hmmm...what is it about clogged pipes and the new year??? My kitchen sink drain is clogged. I tried to unclog it but the plumber's snake I was using was only 25 feet and did not hit the clog - sigh. So I am going to have to call out a plumber as well which will not be cheap I'm sure!

Congrats on the run results!

BA
Yeah, I couldn't get my snake through to my clog either. Luckily it only cost me $150 bucks. The place I called did not charge extra for weekends or holidays. Yay for that much at least.

Well, this way we can start the new year with a clean slate..and pipes LOL.
Bummer about the pipes.

Great work with the run though! That's great!
The pics from the run Saturday smile

Start

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Resolution-Run-2011-auburn/145732-1025/1144579901_ahzMW-L.jpg
That was a SERIOUS run! I didn't realize it was off-road! WOW!
Cool. I caught them last December in Austin. What a show!
TSO I mean. I'm behind here LOL.
LOL. Yeah, want to go see them again.

Mishka - yeah, only the first and last bit was paved. The rest was trail (which after several days of rain translates mostly to mud). It was crazy and messy and so much fun.
TGIF!!!!!

(((everyone)))
I hate how the exs manage to screw things up for years and years to come!

I hadn't gotten an invitation to my SIL's wedding, but since it's not til May I had just assumed she hadn't sent them out yet. I couldn't remember the exact date, so I sent her a message so I could see if I needed to request time off from work. What I got back was this...

"Good Morning Michelle. The wedding is Saturday May 14. I have actually been stressing about this since we got engaged. I would like nothing more than having you and Roger come and celebrate with us but I fear it will cause stress and tension on the immediate family due to [ex]'s presence. I hate that it has all turned out this way and it is beyond unfair. [fiance] and I will both be up a few days before the wedding, and we were hoping you and Roger would accept our invitation to dinner that Wednesday night. I feel terrible, but I hope you can appreciate the position I am in and that you are still up to have a mini celebration. Hope all is well."

Part of me isn't really surprised I guess. But I've been in tears about it nonetheless. I hate how their decisions screw up everything for the rest of us!!!!
Hey look on the bright side you can just buy a "mini" gift now grin

In all seriousness though it is unfair Michelle frown

While I don't know the specifics I know lots of ex's can put their differences aside on occasions such as wedding, birth, death etc and deal with it in a mature manner. But I can understand it being harder if you guys are in new R
I hear ya Michelle. I am sorry. Your poor sister in law has been sweating bullets trying to make everyone happy. Nice wedding present to his sister...NOT.

I think you should still go up and share time with them as it seems to mean a lot to both you and her.

Big hugs! kat
I'm not entirely sure who she thinks would find it awkward. xMIL probably. xMIL tries way too hard to please everyone. And XH I'm sure. But it's not like he has to talk to me, so I don't really see why it would be that big a deal.

My R with Roger isn't new. We've been dating over 2 years now, and it's not a secret from anyone, including my former in laws. I have no idea who XH will bring to the wedding, if anyone. I stopped keeping track of whether he was broken up or back together with the main OW a long time ago. I certainly wouldn't be happy about seeing her again, but it's not like I have to talk to either one of them.

SIL is not usually so anxious, I half expected her to just invite everyone. I guess that really disappoints me. I've been really looking forward to this. I appreciate the dinner invite, but it's just not the same.
UGH! I'm so sorry Michelle. That really stinks.

It's difficult to know how to handle former in-laws. While you're no longer tied to them, you're still 'tied' to them emotionally.

IMO, meet them for dinner, congratulate them and wish them well. I really think you would regret it later if you didn't.
Hey Michelle,

I would meet them for dinner, it does suck but realistically a bride just wants an easy day and it may be her way of avoiding any scene. Perhaps it is her brother that she is not sure of rather than you.
I just don't even know how to reply to her. I mean, yeah, dinner is something. But I can't believe she's going along with this bs. I haven't had any real contact with his family since like September. That's plenty of time for things to blow over. What could she possibly be worried about?!?!?!?
Part of me wants to send him an e-mail. But I know in the mood I'm in it would go something like "Thanks for getting me uninvited to your sister's wedding. I hope you are finally happy. Are you ever going to grow up?"

So not a good idea.

But then, part of me says he must be at the root of this. Why else would she be worried about it unless he had asked if I was invited or some such??? And that makes me want to ask him why it's a problem. Why he even cares. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

I guess I need to ask her why it's a problem. Cuz I really don't understand where this is coming from. I guess until I know, I can't really decide what to do.
I've had to go along with bs stuff because of family peace before. It's annoying but you have to do it. It sounds like it is hard for her too.

With your exh, you could send the email but it would be opening up a can of worms, and you should consider whether you want that or step back.

(((Michelle)))

It is cr@p though!
Michelle -
The thing is, you really don't know what has transpired between your x and his sister. He may have made it a big deal, and now she is caught in the middle. It seems like she is trying to make the best of it, but it is her brother.
I found this out the hard way. Even after being a member of the family for 20+ years, out of two BIL's and two SIL's and their respective spouses, I only keep in touch with half of them. I have a 2 year old nephew who I have never met.

I'm sorry...
Well, talked to xSIL yesterday. Had a very nice long chat and put a lot of stuff out there.

She has not talked to XH about the wedding specifically. But he as recently as a couple months ago was still being immature and manipulative in regards to me. He sent xMIL an e-mail telling her that she shouldn't talk to me and invite me to things. xSIL only knows about this cuz xFIL told her, xMIL has said nothing to anyone else. xFIL and xSIL are pissed because XH is using her fear that he will stop talking to her against her to get what he wants. It's sorta worked - I haven't really heard from her, although I did get an e-Christmas card.

I told xSIL that I appreciate the position she's in, that I know she doesn't want to deal with drama, just wants to enjoy her day, that I don't want to cause her any issues. That no matter what I would not hold it against her.

She decided XH can suck it up. There's gonna be like 130 people there, he's a groomsman so he'll be sitting at the head table and doing his own thing and I can avoid him and vice versa. So, if I can get the day off from drill, I am invited.
That's good Michelle, glad you guys talked it out. Ugh on the whole mess.
Love your SIL's attitude! She must really like you!
K
Yeah, I'm super glad we talked. My SIL is awesome. I really can't not imagine having her in my life after all these years. She's such a great friend.

She told me after the D that she didn't know what to call me anymore. Then decided no matter what we were still sisters of the heart. grin And that no stupid boys could change that lol.

Now to see if I can get off work! LOL
Awwww, nice. I just got off the phone with my mortgage broker - a gal I haven't met in person yet, but who I love hearing from, because on the phone she sounds exactly like the SIL I lost in the divorce.
Too funny. It's strange how people come into our lives to fill those voids sometimes.
Yay for long weekends! Leaving after work tonight to fly to Disneyland!!!!!!!!

Hope everyone else has a good week. See y'all when I get back!

(((everyone)))
WOO HOO!!!!!

Have a blast! Say hey to my former home for me and have a corn dog on main street at the little red wagon. smile
Will do! Also planning on a caramel apple!
I sooooo miss Disneyland... frown I went 17 times in the 9 months I lived in SoCal!! And I was 29 at the time, not a kid! wink
Have a great time! I haven't been to Disney land since I was 17(Disneyworld...that's a much more recent experience!) Don't let all the kids around you have all the fun and that includes Roger. smile

kat
I miss Disneyland!!! I used to live 15 minutes away from there and had season passes. Sometimes we would just take the kids there in the evening to watch a parde!
Heck, I worked there and used to go over into the park for lunch. smile I truly miss that. frown
Have fun Michelle!
Thanks all! It was a blast of course. Went on space mountain like 4 times, pirates a good 5. Hit up Thunder Mtn RR a few times, once at night. I don't remember ever doing it at night before and it was a blast!

Unfortunately all the parades and fireworks were cancelled due to rain and wind. But we went on all the rides one more time instead after the park cleared out lol.

I have never been to Disneyworld. I think that needs to be on my bucket list!
Glad you had a good time. Islands of Adventure is my favorite all time park now that I am older. Disney World is good but I have had a hard time with my kids age ranges finding something for all of them at once.

So you never did "it' at night??? LOL Sorry I couldn't resist.

kat
ROTFLMAO.

Nope only the mornings. wink
So, no news is good news? lol
No news is sorta good news?

Been SO busy. I ran my unit's annual qualification range last month. Plus I attended the language conference on behalf of my company commander. Now the Army has dropped an exercise in Florida on my lap on less than two weeks notice.

My civilian boss is pissed, I'm pissed, my boyfriend is pissed.

This last minute, drop-everything is getting old, especially for an exercise which has been planned for months so there's no excuse for the lack of communication.

I already bought my light rail monthly pass for April, which I won't be using half of. I paid for a 6 week intermediate training class with the dog that I'll be missing two weeks of. Not to mention missing her first birthday, my sister and brother's birthdays, and I have to get the taxes done before I leave.

The 10k in Napa this weekend went well, other than the rain. It was pretty fun, and I finished in 1:01:10-ish. Official times haven't been posted yet.

And I have a massage scheduled for the state holiday on Thursday. But I'll apparently be using the rest of the day to try and get last-minute stuff done and pack.
That royally stinks!!!!!

Good job on the 10k though!
Official time posted at 1:01:02!!!!

Had a $h!tty conversation with my company commander last night. Not only am I stuck going on this exercise, he made it sound like it's my fault. Told me I need to manage my career better. Um, how am I supposed to manage it when you don't tell me?!? I ain't a mind reader. I asked to be put on the list for the local training course at the end of May, I planned around attending that course in May, I AM on the list to attend that course in May. How am I supposed to ask to be removed from a list that I don't know I'm even on?!? Then he tells me it probably could have been changed if I had asked earlier...again, how can I ask if I don't know!?!?!?!

Then found out that I'm not the only one who magically appeared on the list for this exercise. And one in particular is having problems with the last minute notice. One of my poor specialists is having a hard time arranging childcare and he threatened her with an Article 15 for missing movement. F'ing a$$.

Then to top it off, he told me that even though he said I could have Saturday May 14th off to attend SIL's wedding, he hadn't signed my leave request form yet, and now he's not going to. He's taking it back because the battalion executive officer said a wedding was not a good enough excuse, someone has to die. Best part is, the battalion executive officer has no real say over this. My company commander is the only one who needed to approve the request, and he'd already done so verbally. So all he had to say was, sorry sir, it's already been approved. But no, he rolled over and threw me under the bus. I have no respect left for him. He's just a pushover who's so interested in brown-nosing his own career he'll throw all those under his command to the wolves.

My first sergeant is livid. She said she's going to talk to him and probably the battalion sergeant major as well.

I am SO looking forward to his deployment now. If only because first sergeant and I will be in charge and we will put a stop to all this BS!!!
I did get some good news though, not from my company commander though. The battalion ops sergeant, whom I've known for years, called to tell me I'm showing up in all the personnel databases as a captain! So, looks like I'll at least be getting a pay raise for this exercise in Florida!
Gotta love the military way of doing things - those are the parts I don't miss, although as an Army Civil Servant I still get to experience the frings side of it all. Well CAPT Michelle - has a nice ring to it. smile So you will need to change your DB name to MichelleCAPT wink

BA
I've obviously just been lucky with most of my commanders then. This is the first time I've run into someone who is enough of an a$$ to actually say out loud that career is more important than soldier care.

My name was actually taken from my married initials, that was just a coincidence. Although it probably is time for a change anyways since I haven't had those initials in a while!
Hey Michelle...wow, I take my hat off to you... I wouldnt survive 5 minutes in the army, I HATE being told what to do wink What a huge shame about SIL's wedding.. can your first sergeant get him to change his decision?? Good job that guy is getting deployed !!!
I agree, I couldn't do it. I question everything because I want to know why. The military would hate me, they don't want you to know why...just do it!! How much longer are you in for?

kat
Until I resign my commission. Being an officer is not like enlisting where it's for a set period of years.

I am a why person too. But when it comes to work and assignments, I just want to know when and where so I can get it done. When and where doesn't seem too much to ask.

But apparently it is. So I went two levels up and e-mailed the brigade directly asking for the operations order, packing list, and any other information they have on this exercise. My commander will probably be peeved that I went over his head, but he'll get over it. LOL
Ok, so here is a REALLY dumb question....I know..you're shocked! LOL

I've only dealt with the military on the enlisted end. My cousin's husband was an officer but I didn't have to deal with any 'drama' in that case.

How is it that you are an officer and outrank them and they are NCO's and you have to follow their orders? I guess I've never seen a military organization that had an NCO as the commander.

Like I said, dumb question!!! LOL
Well my company commander is a captain.

The NCO's that I'm dealing with in regards to this are full-time staff. So it's not so much that I have to follow their orders, it's more that they are following the orders of our boss the company commander, or even his boss the battalion commander (who is a lieutenant colonel). They are just the ones trying to get me orders and make travel arrangements.

It's a little different from active duty because most of us are just part-time, including the commander. The only full-time people we have are NCOs, but they are usually not the final decision-makers (that's still the commander), they are the planners, the trainers, and the facilitators.

One NCO got me into this mess by putting my name on the roster for this exercise, but he is going to be receiving a written counseling statement.
Ahhh....gotcha!

Makes more sense to me now. My poor little brain was reeling trying to figure out how that worked out. smile
I'm with everyone else on not being able to put up with the military. I've been hanging in Killeen/Ft. Hood a lot lately and don't know how they do it. Good job hanging in there Michelle, hope the exercise is going well.
Well, I'm back. I guess the exercise was okay. Everything else seemed to be one disaster after another. Luckily none of my guys were too involved in the major ones - 2 fights in the male barracks and one arrest for sexual assault (a guy went into the female barracks circa 3 am the second to last night and groped some girl who then woke the whole barracks up yelling - he spent the day in county jail). Plus there were assorted wildlife issues (mostly ticks, but one water moccasin bite - they had anti-venom at the clinic luckily!).

All in all, all I can say is that I am SO glad to be home!
HOLY COW! That sounds like an eventful week!

Glad you're home safe and weren't the victim of the moccasin bite!
Yeah, it is good to be home. I was very happy that none of my guys was involved in any of the drama. Pretty low standard in some ways, but I was glad they all exceeded it LOL.
Man, what a week. Sounds like you need a vacation!
You are telling me! LOL
Well, not much to post. xSIL's wedding is on the 14th. I am going. Have a dress and shoes. Very excited about it.

I am a bit nervous about it. Dreading seeing XH a bit, but so glad Roger will be there to lean on. Plus, unless something's changed again, OW will not be XH's date, so that's a big relief. I'd need a lot more to drink if I was going to have to see both of them! grin

Other than that, just going to work, working out, working on the house, spending time with the bf and the dog. smile A nice normal life, or something like that lol.
Your dog is so pretty! Lucky girl! Strangely after nearly 3 years I can at least talk with ex about kid stuff and current event type stuff. This week in fact I will be seeing him 3 nights due to kid activities.

I think you will get through the wedding fine. Focus on SIL and Roger and you will enjoy yourself.

hugs, kat
Have fun at the wedding Michelle. You will do just wonderfully, I have no doubt. Like you said, Roger will be at your side for support. What more could you ask??? LOL
Dress

Shoes
Hmm try that again. Stupid edit doesn't work.

Dress
LOVE THEM BOTH!!!!!
Adorable!
I will be taller than XH in those shoes, but not even closer to taller than Roger lol. Should be entertaining!
Glad you get to go! And SBW or whatever her name is doesn't.
LOL Thanks Jon smile
I can only see the shoes and loved them and I loved the name of the company :the pin uo girl clothing, LOL
K
That was funny wasn't it?

Crazy weekend.

So in chronological order, went to wedding. It was a pretty ceremony. xSIL looked amazing, they are such a cute couple. I saw tons of people I haven't seen in anywhere from a few months to a few years.

XH was there of course, managed to avoid him for the most part. He unfortunately made a point of coming to talk to me, but was polite. He got pissed off at Roger for talking to his gf and interrupted their conversation to literally drag her off to dance lmao.

I danced a bunch with Roger and with one of the cousins, Amber. I managed to hold it together this wedding, not sure if it was a combination of being further along in time, being stubborn about not breaking down anywhere where XH could find out about it, or having a lot more "family" there to support me.

All in all, a fun time. So glad I was able to go.

Got up before dawn Sunday to drive to San Francisco for my national guard drill. Got to do my official promotion ceremony to Captain. Finally got home at about 7 pm last night and started laundry. Was hearing sirens close, then heard heavy trucks, so went outside to see and the duplex two houses down from me was on fire! Luckily we are having unseasonal rain and cold weather, plus the fire station is less than a mile away. I think the entire station turned up, we must've had 5 trucks there. Both halves of the duplex are pretty much totaled I think, but it didn't spread. It was started in the garage of the unrented half by some squatters. Don't know if they all got out, but the family in the other half was able to get out, including their cat.

Contractors were there til almost 3 this morning boarding up the house. The fire dept cut down the front doors, cut a hole in the garage door, broke most of the windows to get hoses in, and cut a hole in the roof.

Maybe next time people try telling the owner there's squatters in his investment property he'll actually do something about it lol.
Wow Michelle.. well done! Sounds like you conducted yourself with dignity. So... you say you held it together because you didnt want him to see you break down, or something.. so in fact, was it upsetting to see him and in that sitch ? How was Roger about your XH being present ?

LOVED the dress btw, really unusual and flattering shape I bet.

Al xx
No, if anything, seeing him makes me feel luckly lol. He's put on a bit of weight and is just as insecure and pompous as he has been since his deployment. He is not the same person I fell in love with, the one I miss.

I do miss being married. I miss being able to believe in forever. But life goes on.

I will try and get some pictures up tomorrow.

Tonight is puppy dog's final exam in training class. smile
Quote:

I will try and get some pictures up tomorrow.



I'll be back...tomorrow!grin
Pics are up in the alt. smile

Spent the last week dog-sitting an extra two dogs. Exhausted. Only got to sleep through the night once. So glad to be back down to my one, relatively well trained, not much of a barker.

Although she did take off after a squirrel the other day and wrench my shoulder good. Had to make an emergency massage appointment as I couldn't raise my arm over my shoulder or turn my head the next day.

Feeling mostly recovered now though.

(((everyone)))
YOW!!!! She tried to pull your arm out of the socket!!!! That must have been miserable. It kind of cracks me up when I see a dog take off after prey. Happens every day around here and I see the owner running like mad to catch them. I honestly don't know why they bother. They certainly can't catch the dog!!! LOL

Glad you're recovering well!
Yeah...problem was I had a good grip on the leash. She didn't get away from me. But I also didn't realize what was going on because she saw the squirrel before I did. She's definitely part lab, strong chase instinct.

She will actually come back to me. I think. She came back to me when she took off after one of the other dogs last week when I opened the garage door without realizing the door from the backyard into the garage was propped open. The other dog didn't, but Kelsey did. I had to get the other dog to chase me into the back yard to get her corralled lol.
So...long time no post. Not much to post.

Work is work.

Kelsey is being a dog. The chewing has come to an end. The digging is mostly come to an end. Long Sunday dog walks with my mom have become pretty routine.

Roger is being a boyfriend. LOL His birthday is today. Taking him out to dinner here tonight.

Getting busy with summer plans. Got some stuff done around the house. The usual and normal and boring stuff. grin Probably gonna go walk at the river tomorrow. We tried to plan rafting, but the rental companies are holding all rentals because the river is running too high and fast.

Hope everyone is doing well!

(((everyone)))
That restaurant sounds really cool. Roger is a lucky man and don't let him forget it! Happy Birthday Roger!

Funny how normal doesn't stick out as good. I think after everything we have gone through, normal is great!

Hugs, kat
That place made my mouth water! grin

Happy birthday Roger!!!!

Kat, you took the words right out of my mouth. After being on such a crazy rollercoaster for so long it does seem strange for so much 'normalcy' to thrw us for a loop. smile
I am definitely enjoying normal. It's nice to be able to worry about the little things instead of trying to deal with an overwhelming trauma.

Dinner was amazing. They gave us a half glass of bubbly for free as a birthday present. Roger ordered the fish special, which was sturgeon, and I had the rib-eye. Everything was delicious and pretty. For desert we got the summer fruit crostada to split, it was cherry, and the waiter put a candle in it. He claimed he can't sing, but that suited Roger just fine. grin

All in all a wonderful evening. Only thing that would have made it perfect is if we weren't too full and sleepy when we got home to do anything but go straight to sleep! LOL.
Quote:
All in all a wonderful evening. Only thing that would have made it perfect is if we weren't too full and sleepy when we got home to do anything but go straight to sleep! LOL.


Oh well...cuddling up with a full belly isn't all bad. Did you at least make up for it in the morning??? wink LOL
All that sounds so good. What river is near you? I rafted the Guadalupe here in Texas with my dad and brothers last year. So fun!
I am close to the Sacramento and American Rivers. The American is of course where all the good rafting is. North fork of the American is not dam controlled, only open part of the season, and the most fun. Middle fork is some good class 3 and 4s. South fork is good beginners rafting.
I'll have to go look that up!
Your puppy dog treed a raccoon???? ICK! They are just vicious!
Yeah. I actually sprayed the tree down with the hose to keep it up there while Roger got the dog inside and we all vacated the area. It was pissed lol.
Hi Michelle,

I seem to recall that you run? I've just started and wondered if you have any tips for building up stamina.

How's the puppy?
I'll post some stuff on your thread now that I found the new one you started. smile

Puppy is doing good. Not much of a puppy anymore. She's 15 months old now and likes to think she is all grown up. grin

Thanks for stopping by! Good to hear from you!
So, bunch of crazy drama lately. Not sure if I have some sign on my back or what the hell is going on! confused

Saturday...my friend comes to visit. She shows up late, doesn't text when she gets close like she said she would. Turns out it's because XH contacted her and insisted on meeting her for coffee. She caved because she was driving the two hours out this way anyways. He wanted to thank her for suggesting Match.com to him as that's how he met the girl he's now dating...er...engaged to. I think. XH also wanted to tell her he was planning on proposing that night. I think it went well as she indicated that his facebook had something positive on it. I didn't ask what (relationship status change or some comment or whatever).

Am I reading too much into this? It feels like he wanted me to know for some reason. He knew she was coming to visit me. He insisted on seeing her before she saw me so he could tell her the news. This girl is my friend, even told him a couple years ago she couldn't be friends with him because he and I weren't friends anymore. They don't talk often, but she's polite to him when he does contact her. So, seemed really weird to me. crazy

Also seems weird to me because XH and the new GF haven't even been dating 6 months. I guess he's in some all-fired hurry to get remarried again and start having kids. eek

Oh, and he still talks to SBW/TAP. The new GF is apparently "ok" with this, or at least wasn't given an option. I'm quite sure she doesn't realize this was his affair partner though, I'm sure XH told her she's just an ex-gf and they are still friends. crazy

All I can say to all of this is...new GF seems nice, so I hope he's learned and grown.

I also hope he's in a good mood since the FBI will be contacting him about my background check! *fingers crossed* Hopefully he's feeling magnanimous and is not in one of his "it's all her fault" moods. grin

Then Monday morn, I go to walk the dog. Do my loop around the park and there's this guy walking in circles. When I leave the park and head back up the street, he also heads out of the park. Look back a block later, and he's still back there. Get back up by my house, and he crosses the street and comes up my street. Ummmm okay, don't want to walk up to my house now as I don't want him knowing where I live. Walk past my house to buy time, but I have to turn around as it's a dead end. mad

Decide to ask him WTF when I get back by my house as I know Roger is inside, my neighbors Jim and Charlotte are home, and my neighbor across the street is also probably home. End up telling him to leave, don't want him on my walk with me. He heads back towards the street, so I continue on my walk to do my last little loop. He follows me up there. So I call Roger and walk back towards the house. Roger comes out and the guy finally heads back to the main st, but is hanging around the corner. So, call the sheriff. Sheriff shows up and talks to him, he has no record or whatever, so they tell him to head the other way. I see them as I'm heading to work, follow the car to where they stopped to talk and confirm with them that they did stop the correct person. Get the report number, say thanks, head off to work.

Tuesday morning, I go walk the dog (Roger did offer, but I said I'd do it), go a slightly different and more roundabout way to the park, get down there, don't see anybody in the park at all. Am walking around the park and realize it was because he was sitting at the picnic table behind a tree in about the only part of the park I couldn't see. This time he stayed in the park though. Although I didn't loop the park, I went out the other end and around the block and took the long way home. Had to jog some of it to get home in time to catch the train to work.

Wednesday, no sightings. This am, I didn't see him either, but Roger saw him on his way to work. He lives in the low-income apartment complex a few blocks away of course. Why does low-income have to equal mostly trashy?

Ugh. Anyways, so glad I have tomorrow off.

Yay for girl's weekend with the out-laws! And at least I know going in what the gossip probably will be about.
How freaky is that? Glad you are okay but don't let your guard down. As for your ex, I agree, I think he wanted you to know and went through friend to do it. Maybe he hopes you will care?? Beats me.

kat
Yeah, for sure. I am keeping my eyes open. I am not really worried on mornings I run as I'm quite sure if he tried to run his pants would fall down and he'd fall face-first on the street. But I am carrying my cell phone anyways. smile

Yeah, that was kinda the conclusion I came to as well. That I'm supposed to care, or even be jealous. Of what, I can't quite figure out. I'm sure he's been on his best behavior so far, but he's gained weight, lost hair, lied to me, cheated on me, and caused all sorts of financial difficulties, so I don't really think there's much to miss! LMAO
Don't you have a permit to carry something that could cut a stalker in two? Maybe flash him your piece if he shows up again! What a creep....

And I bet your ex doesn't even realize why he "had" to do that, himself.
Wow Michelle! That is super scary! I think I would have had a heart attack. Have you considered carrying pepper spray on you during your run? They have it in very small spray bottles that you can tuck into your sports bra. Glad the sheriff came quickly.

Now, your XH......he definitely wanted you to know what was going on in his life. No idea why other than maybe he felt like he needed to 'show you' that he was ok and his life was 'moving on' without you. Sad, but that's his problem. smile

What is the FBI background check for?
Sounds like XH was trying to do the decent thing and let you know that he plans to get engaged so that you wouldn't be surprised. Direct communication might have been better, but it was nevertheless kind of him to at least let you know through a friend.

Be safe in the park. I wouldn't go near it myself.
That's crazy stuff!

Interesting about XH. Glad it didn't seem to affect you much.
Hey Michelle,

I typed out a reply and then lost it!

It's not nice to hear that news about your exh from whatever source, and I think wherever you are in life then it's always going to feel strange and not that pleasant. Just take time to process the feelings which I am sure you are doing.

How are things now with the weirdo in the park? I hope all is ok.
In a lot of ways, it doesn't. I don't want him back. I have no respect for him or faith in him as a person. I hope he's grown and learned, but frankly give this second marriage a snowball's chance in hell LOL.

At the same time, it makes me a bit nostalgic. I miss being able to have that faith and blind trust. I miss being married a lot still. But not enough to make me want to do it again! LOL

No more weirdo sightings. Things have been quiet.

Just busy with the house and work. I think Roger and I are gonna take a trip with the dog to Yosemite this weekend. smile
Ahhh..Yosemite. Miss that. So beautiful and great hiking.
Michelle, that blind trust is gone, I think from every single person on this and other similar forums no matter the outcome of our efforts. It's the saddest part for me...
(on the other hand, I do feel smarter, you know?)
Love
K
I do feel smarter.

I don't feel like XH got smarter though. And I'd hate to see him repeat all of this trauma and drama with some other unsuspecting soul. I feel bad for her actually LOL.
I don't think anybody trusts like they did when they were in their 20s. I have a friend getting married and I see red flags flying all over, but all he sees is her beauty. Hey, they have a 50/50 chance, right?
True. That blind trust is long gone but there has to be a happy medium between blind trust and never believing a word they say.
Hey Michelle..your exH is an idiot and yes, don't suppose it will last, but sort of nice of him to let you know, although cowardly to go through a mutual friend!

I had exs repeatedly lie and cheat on me in my 20's and I definetly had my barriers up when I met H, a thoroughly decent guy.. so for the first 5 years, I was the one wearing the trousers as essentially I was retaining control and not letting him in entirely.. looking back our R wasnt equal and so we werent able to be fully carefree and in love. We lived together but I dont think I mentally committed to him.. it took something bad in our R which shocked me before I could do that back around 2004.. and suddenly, the walls were down and the love I had for him was able to be fully expressed.

What I'm saying is, it kind of doesnt serve you, or your R to have that cautious lack of trust/faith, but I'm sure you will break past that wound and forget the past eventually, with the love of a decent man! smile
Trust...wow, that's a biggie! I trusted Voldemort completely. Honestly, it's hard to imagine having the barriers down that low ever again but with hard work I want to believe it can happen. smile
LOL
I think everyone would agree that it would take a super muggle, um magical being to love Voldermort. Best done with that and rebuild. smile

kat
LOL!
HAHA Kat!
I do what I can. smile. Loving Voldermort isn't one of them.
I don't even know where to start. Been a crazy month! Laptop got stolen while on a trip with my old roommate Michelle. Roger bought a house, which initially he was going to rent out, but has now decided he wants to try living down there since it's super close to his work. The dog busted my gate again. And I got a parking ticket for street cleaning. Except the sign was behind some tree branches and other people were parked there, so I didn't even realize. It literally took me like 5 minutes of rereading the ticket to figure out what it was for.
I always say it is the bad stuff happening that lets us know that we are alive! Well you my dear are alive and kicking. smile Now you are due a good spell.

Things are still good with Roger?

hugs, kat
Yes, definitely alive lol.

Things are good with Roger. I am not happy about the move as it complicates dealing with the dog and my work commute, but sometime next year my office will be moving close to his new house (it will be 5.8 miles away as a matter of fact!). So, when that happens, it will be much easier.
Then you could rent out your house...;)

kat
Good grief! When it rains it pours!!!!

I like kat's idea! wink
Yes, that is sorta the plan.

Complicated by the fact that I am supposed to be using it as my primary residence until January 2013 because I qualified for the $8,000 first time homebuyers federal tax credit.
"Complicated by the fact that I am supposed to be using it as my primary residence until January 2013 because I qualified for the $8,000 first time homebuyers federal tax credit."

I hear you - I am tethered to my house until June 2013 for the same reason.

BA
Hey all! Long time no see! How is everyone?

(((hugs to all)))
How is going for you hon? Missed you around here.

kat
Update chica! What's been going on? How's Rog and the puppy dog doing?
Roger is doing ok. He is very frustrated with his work. They aren't authorizing overtime, but have a lot of testing for him to do, and he doesn't have enough computer systems to run all the tests on. He keeps telling them he needs more systems or more time, but they keep pushing.

His house is coming along. Back patio is in. Gotta do sprinklers and then grass. He also has 4 trees to plant. The local electric company here gives out free shade trees to help you cut your cooling costs.

I also got 2 trees for my front yard. Need to get those planted this weekend.

Puppy dog is doing good. Still acts like a puppy even though she'll be 2 in April. smile She's cute as all hell of course. Signed up to do the LSNC Race for Justice in February with her again. Love that there are a few races that allow dogs.

I have been crazy busy between work and the national guard. I moved into the executive officer position at my unit, can't remember if I told you guys that. Then my normal job is getting ready to move offices in January. So I am busy packing and cleaning and shredding and packing. Moving is a lot of work!

(((kat))) (((mishka)))
You have a TON going on!

That's pretty neat about the trees. Great idea!

Executive officer....YOU GO GIRL! LOL! So, what exactly does that entail?
Mostly it means I'm the commanding officer's b!tch grin I mean assistant. It means a lot more paperwork and responsibility, but not the autonomy to make decisions without consulting the CO. And it's always nice to keep the First Sergeant in the loop of course too. Now if only they would keep me in the loop it would make my job a ton easier.... I found out about the last conference call the First Sergeant scheduled when I called to talk to him about something and he said, oh, did anyone tell you about this? Uh no, you left me off the e-mail, so why would I know about it? I didn't say that though lol.

The trees are a cool idea. I got a red maple and a tupelo. Should be really pretty next summer. smile
((((((Michelle))))))
You get promoted yet? Be nice to at least get paid to get left out of the loop!
I thought I had mentioned my promotion. I got my captain's bars in March (at least for pay purposes). Got pinned in June (battalion wanted to do it at the dining-in, I said no, turned into a big back a forth and got delayed). Started wearing them in April at annual training lol.
I knew you had gotten your promotion, I just didn't realize that put you in a more supervisory role. That's awesome!!!!!!!
It has it's moments. grin
I'm sure you mentioned it! I just wasn't watching!
Not like there's much to sort through! Lazy bum! wink
The nine words that just might fix us all Such a powerful post that resonated so true with me after all the DBing and seeing what MWD posts on her facebook page. In so much of this blog post, I see him DBing the world.

"What if the only way to ever have our own cries be heard is to be the first to look at the person standing across from us and initially see only that person and nothing else?

What if the only way to ever be heard ourselves is to be the first person to shut up and be quiet so that every person’s desperate voice can finally be decoded?

What if the only way to be heard ourselves is to, at least for a brief moment, let go of this need we have to be better than others?

And instead of looking for all the other people in this world to tell us that we are good people and that we are loved, what if we must first be the ones to give that validation to those who surround us?

What if any time another person judged us, or talked down to us, or belittled us, we didn’t get offended or resistant or reactive, and instead we mentally replaced what was being said to us with the simple phrase, 'I am a good person. And I deserve to be loved.'"

Don't read the below part if you don't want the spoiler of what the nine words are. wink

"What if any time another person judged us, or talked down to us, or belittled us, we simply replied, “You are a good person. And I love you.”

Shhh…

Did you hear that? Did you hear their response?

Of course you didn’t.

There was no response.

The very retorts that we all have developed over a lifetime of trying to meet this need suddenly make no sense once our actual need has been met."
Where's that darn Like button when you need it??
Originally Posted By: MichelleLT
What if any time another person judged us, or talked down to us, or belittled us, we didn’t get offended or resistant or reactive, and instead we mentally replaced what was being said to us with the simple phrase, 'I am a good person. And I deserve to be loved.'
The article mentioned that if we did that, we would be responding to what actually 'was' said instead of responding to what we think was said. That's a different and enlightening perspective!

What if any time another person judged us, or talked down to us, or belittled us, we simply replied, 'You are a good person. And I love you.'

I can see where that might be healthy and beneficial for us also, although I see the need for responding to harshness mentally with that response sometimes instead of actually saying it.
*sigh* I never expected to be on here again for a relationship issue, guess it was only a matter of time. Roger is such a good guy, such a great guy. We share so many interests, generally get along fantastic, travel well together, etc. But a few things, work stress, financial stress, him going back on anti-depressants, have all contributed to a few problems with the love life. I'm pretty frustrated, he's pretty frustrated, we're both frustrated about the same things though ironically. I think the solution would have been that he would like for me to initiate more, but it's rather hard to desire someone who comes home every day grumpy and complains about work, money, the stress of buying a house, traffic, the commute, etc etc etc.

But I also wonder if it's too late for that. I am not sure he would be receptive at this point if I even tried. I don't think he believes things can change. I think he's bought into the whole ILYBNILWY thing. *sigh* I should probably get some sleep. Maybe I'll feel more brilliant in the morning. I do hate sleeping by myself though (he's at his house because he needed to do laundry and such, and I had to come here because the dog was in my yard).
Do you think it could be a down time? Maybe you need to come up with something different to do to shake things up. Maybe you are finding yourself in a routine too. Time to break that routine up!!

Sorry I am sleep deprived, I hope that made sense. Hang in there. Hugs, kat
No, it makes sense, and I've been brain storming for the last couple months. Put some notes in his work bag a couple times, bought some new lacy stuffs.

Last Thursday, he got home from work all grumpy, complaining about everything, left to walk the dog while I was making dinner. Was still grumpy when he got back. He wanted to watch something, I think we put on Firefly. As we ate and watched he started to finally relax, was laughing at some of the show, was being a little more talkative. So, I told him I'd gotten a package that I wanted to show him. Put on the stuff that had arrived from Victoria's Secret. All I got was "that's nice. Really nice." He kept looking at the tv then back at me. "It's really nice. Sorry, I'm just distracted." Well then, I'm gonna go cry in the bathroom and put clothes on then. Ugh.
Well, I guess it's past the point of shaking things up. I got the ILYBNIYWU and he changed his status on FB. FML
Well, hid his R status, or something. It doesn't show as single, just doesn't show anything at all.

What is wrong with me? Why am I pretty enough, smart enough, nice enough to be with for a few years, but not good enough to keep?
Aw, I am sorry. Maybe you guys just need a break. Let him miss you. He sounds as if he is going through a rough patch himself and needs to work stuff out. Why on earth he thinks he needs to not be with you now is beyond me.

I'll try to be on line later if you want to chat or you can call me, my number is under the info stuff.

Love ya and hugs, kat
You are good enough to keep. Let him work it out and in the meantime, keep on being wonderful you.
Yeah, guess I am in LRT / going dark. Talk about going from 0 to 60 in nothing. Or maybe in this case 60 to 0.

Still have to talk to him as he is taking the dog Sunday/Monday.
Oh goodness Michelle. I'm so sorry you are facing this. It does sounds like he is having some adjustment issues and may need more help than the AD's are giving him. Is he having any therapy in conjunction?

You are one of the most fabulous, down to earth women I have had the good fortune to get to know these last 4 years. Don't you ever think you are not a keeper. You are a forever kind of woman, he's just not feeling like a forever kind of guy right now.

Definitely time to do some serious DBing on him. Definitely go at least dim on him. Keep being your active, wonderful self but stay mysterious about it.

What are your goals? Solution oriented...remember.
Yes, he's been doing EMDR. He actually started the EMDR before he went on the AD's, and had such a bad time of it that his therapist refused to continue EMDR til he got on AD's.
Ironically, in the course of his EMDR and working on his abuse and abandonment issues from childhood, he has actually started to change his mind about marriage. He told me that he might actually consider getting married, but he needs someone who is more than his best friend, he needs that spark, the in love feeling. And that it's not fair to me to stay together if we aren't really more than best friends.

It's a good thing he has his own house to hide in or I might kill him right now! (Just kidding. Mostly.)

Goals? I guess right now I'm just trying to make it through this week. I asked a friend to come up for Saturday/Sunday just so I don't have to be in my house alone. I have had the disturbing realization this week that most of my friends have moved away. They are all in So Cal or out of state. Two of my bestest friends are at least still here in Nor Cal, but they are a couple hours away. The people I have spent the most time with the last year or two are really Roger's friends.

One of my friends who only lives about 30 minutes away is trying to start up a weekly crafting group. I think I will need to pursue that.

But I'm limited by the dog. Roger has basically abdicated her to me, says he will dog sit when needed and take her if I need a break, but he thinks she will do better staying at my house since that's been her home since we got her. Part of me agrees with that, but then a big part of me is just screaming we got her from YOUR friends, TOGETHER. I never would have a dog if it wasn't for you and now I get 80% of the responsibility of dealing with her?
((((((((Michelle))))))))

Well, crap! I don't have much good advice... though I can confess to being a little perturbed!

I think it really does sound like a case where it's him and not you. He sounds like he doesn't feel good about himself (for whatever reason) and he is pulling into himself. Not looking for or wanting a partner through whatever it is. Of course, the message that gets sent is that it's you... I think we all know better!

Sending some huge hugs your way! If I have any ideas, you know I will send them on!
You and me both Jeff!

I really see it that way too, mostly, when I'm not feeling too down of course. Definitely riding the roller coaster the last 48 hours.

I'm always open to suggestions. The "nice" thing about having done this before is I know to handle myself better from the start. It is raising some serious parallels and insecurities for me though. It's really hard when I dwell on it. So I'm trying to keep busy.

My friend Lisette who lives about 2 hours away is coming up to spend Saturday/Sunday with me.

Tonight, one of Roger's friends actually came over. She insists that us girls need to stick together, that I think of her as my friend too, and that he's gonna regret this lol. She brought pizza and we talked about mostly not this. It was a good distraction.

Busy is good right now. Tomorrow night will be house stuff. Cleaning and maybe trying to fix the radio in my car. Well, install a new one I should say. Tape deck died. frown I'm getting sick of being at the mercy of the radio stations lol. Cuz if I sit on the couch for more than a few it really does overwhelm me. And I don't have a roommate right now to check on me or make sure I eat. Gotta make sure I take care of myself and the dog.
(((((Michelle)))))
I'm glad you have company lined up for the weekend!

I love having a USB port on my radio! Also the AUX port, but being able to put a stick full of music in and be able to control everything from the radio rather than another device is handy! Wasn't too expensive, pretty cheap really! A bit of a challenge to install, but not real bad! I think the newer cars are probably harder, with the radio more integrated with the dash.

I am really sure it isn't you. I kind of wonder if Roger is "afraid" of a real commitment for the long haul. With the depression issues he might feel that he doesn't deserve it. Of course, you can't fix that!

I'm liking the idea of giving him some space right now. It might give you a chance to evaluate how you feel as well.
The radio I ordered as a replacement for my car is "mechless." No tape deck or CD player at all. Just a USB connection from inside the faceplate with a tray to drop your MP3 player. So I'll just be skipping the whole CD fad and going straight from tapes to digital. What I'm going to do with all my tapes is a whole other question though....

I'm not so sure it's as simple as all that. But who the hell knows.

What I do know is he thinks we're just friends. Well, we'll see if he misses me. I'm gonna give him enough space to choke on his decision!
And since my car is 16 years old, should be "easy!" I bought the wiring conversion harness, so that should simplify things. We shall find out this weekend!
Okay, I'm gonna go read for a little bit and try and get some sleep. I will not cry myself to sleep. I will not cry myself to sleep. I will not cry myself to sleep.

Ready, go!
((((((((Michelle))))))))

Just friends.... right!

Sounds like you have the radio nailed! Mine has a CD player but I rarely use it. I jump between a memory stick (which has vanished) and an Ipod.

You had better not have cried yourself to sleep!
I hope you got some sleep sweetie. So glad to hear you have some great distractions lined up for this weekend.

You are pretty brave to take on wiring in a car even if it is just the radio. With my luck I'd short out some engine wiring in the process so I wouldn't ever attempt it!!! YOU GO GIRL!
My car is 14, it was pretty easy to put in the radio once I had the harness!
My mom is going to come over and help me with the radio at some point. She helped my brother put the exact same model into his truck, that's how I found out about the "tune tray" design and mechless radios. Definitely a cool concept. Now I need to sit down and make sure all my CDs are on my computer so I can sync them to my mp3 player and I'll have the whole library with me since I can put a bigger SD card in my mp3 player.! A super cool concept!

I did not cry myself to sleep. I managed to focus on reading some Sherlock Holmes stories until my eyes were blurry and then turn the lights off and tell my brain to shut the hell up.

It's Friday! Yay! Lisette is coming tomorrow, so tonight will be doing dishes, laundry, vacuuming, and generally catching up on the stuff I neglected this week through preoccupation with this stitch and lack of motivation.
Sorry the kids were on the computer last night with school work, so I couldn't really knock them off. Keep yourself busy. You know you are fantastic and so does he. He is just off in Roger land right now.

Have fun with the radio. I think you are a bit braver than me. smile

kat
Not to knock the seriousness of our relationship, but I am surprised by how much easier this has been without an A and all the venom directed at me. It's almost easy by comparison.
Oh Michelle, that is so annoying. I hate the best friends speech. I know you know it but I'll say it anyway, it's not about you hun. It sounds like he needs to work through his own stuff and ive found men have this habit of needing to do that by themselves.

So, you know what to do. You need to be your fabulous you, because you are an amazing woman michelle, but take your time to feel sad and hurt and don't be hard on yourself. You are doing all the right things, but it s!cks that you have to do it.

(((Michelle)))
Yes that it does. (((everyone)))
Text convo tonight (for the record he has crappy cell reception at his house, so even when he's wanted to he can't reliably call me, just for context)

Him: How u and puppy doing
Me (after several minutes of thinking and wine muddling my judgment): She's upset about you being gone. Keeps trying to get in my car after work like we're going to your house. Me? I'm angry, hurt and numb. Sometimes all at once.
Him: I'm sorry. I wish I felt differently. I do miss u both.
Me: Yeah, me too.
Him: Give her a hug for me.
Him: I don't get Monday off.
Him: But I'll still watch her Sunday and Monday.
Me: Okay.

I blame any brutal honesty on the wine. Heh.
So, weekend with Lisette was good. Nice distraction, some talking about what's been going on, but nice distraction too.

Roger picked up puppy dog last night to have her for a couple days. I had a bunch of his stuff waiting for him to take. He still has an unbelievable amount of stuff here though. I keep finding more stuff!

He was running super late, so I was trying to get out the door to meet some friends. He wanted to chit chat though. He asked to see the radio I put in my car, I showed it to him then was letting my car warm up to leave.

Before he left, he gave me a big hug and then asked if I was coming to his housewarming party on Saturday. I'm torn. I know it's a super big deal to him that he was able to buy a house, that he's very excited, albeit overwhelmed at owning a piece of the "American dream." I know he would see it as a big sign of support if I came. But I really don't know if I want to be around all his friends. I know I'd be welcome, I know they'd be glad to see me, but it just feels like it would be awkward.

I guess the bigger question is would it be counterproductive? He says he feels like we are just friends. Does this reinforce that belief if I go to his housewarming party?

Text convo from the 15th:
Roger: Good morning. Would 5pm be fine to pick up puppy or do you want me to get her earlier?
Me: That's fine. I should be home working on stuff.
Him: Ok.
Two hours later he texts me with: if you turn on NPR, Brad Paisley is on Prairie Home Companion.
Me: That's cool, but I'm out at dog walk.

This morning:
Him: Hope you had a good time last night. I think puppy has bad dreams. She gets up, checks on me and the house, then goes back to bed.
Me: Yeah, it's possible. She doesn't understand.
Him: Yeah. If you feel up to taking her on a run at lunch that would save me travel time (he's at work, so she's inside at his house and he was going to go home at lunch and let her out)
Him: If not no worries
I haven't figured out what to say to that. I could go down, let her out and pick up some of my stuff. But I can also get it tomorrow when I'm down closer to his house at work.

I haven't initiated a single conversation with him, but we haven't gone more than a day and a half without some sort of interaction.
Quote:
He says he feels like we are just friends. Does this reinforce that belief if I go to his housewarming party?


Lol - it does if you show up with a DATE (tee hee wink )
Hah. Does the dog count?
If you think it will hurt you to go...then DON'T. If you think being there to be supportive of this big step in his life is going to make you feel good, then go.

This is about you....not him! I understand that your support for him could go a long way, but if you end up feeling worse because of it then it's just not worth it.
Michelle ~ UGH what a icky situation but probably you can go and DB at the same time.....Get dolled up go with a girlfriend, drop a bottle of wine....stay long enough to be seen and say hello to everyone then leave because your going out to dinner (whatever) with your girl!

Tell R that you will stop by and say Hello that evening.

Don't help him throw the party or clean up from it and make sure your not there the whole evening,....make him notice your absence and dolling yourself up to go out with a girlfriend while he is stuck at home entertaining friends...is priceless.
OOOOOOhhhhhh! Great idea sandy! I love it!
Brilliant!!!
Just add - you're not going out to dinner with your girlfriend, you're going out DANCING! wink
Funny, I pulled that one last night when he came by to get the dog. Went and did pub quiz and some line dancing with a few friends. Wish I could do that more often but it's over 30 miles each way.

Hmmm, so maybe drop off the dog, stay for a bit, then bail. I could manage that I think.
Oh, and I'm donating my hair to Locks of Love again. Off for a hair cut!
Pictures are up from the hair cut.

I just got a text from Roger: Hey, I just spent an assload of money at Costco. 400 bucks to be exact. Do you need anything like dish washer pellets?

*sigh*
Well.......isn't that what you would do for a friend?

Devil's advocate, I know.

What have you decided about the party?
Sounds like someone isn't really letting go. Yet, this is supposedly what he wanted. Maybe he just needs alone time to figure that out.

kat
You are right, it's friendly. But it's just so bizarre.

Puppy dog is gonna go since other people will be bringing their dogs. So I think I am going to drop her off, say hi and bye to people and head out. I am trying to figure out something else to occupy my time. One possibility is a west coast swing dance lesson. I have no one to go with me as yet, but I've been wanting to learn west coast for years.
don't know what this thread is about

but ALWAYS loved the subject's title...


just thought I'd say "thanks for the laugh" and when i can I'll post more intelligently...

cool
Title is from a song, Cheater, Cheater by Joey and Rory.

One of the songs I really latched onto because of my XHs affairs. Course, he's not stuck with her now, he dumped her. And is engaged to someone he's been dating slightly over a year. Apparently invites are going out soon. He's wasting no time lol.
But it's a fun song and always makes me laugh. Laughter is the best medicine after all.
*sigh* Roger is over getting more stuff. Since he's taking his speaker system he is hooking up a smaller one for me. I appreciate that he's being so nice and all, but it's kinda driving me nuts.

Most of the time, things are so close to normal happy couple it drives me nuts. Other than the physical awkwardness and nobody to sleep with. *sigh*

I will not be mean and sarcastic. I will not be mean and sarcastic.

I will just eat the crescent rolls I made that are his favorite in my new top with my new haircut.
That's right girl! Show him what he's missing.

I know you know this already but, just a reminder, this is ALL about him and has nothing to do with you as a woman. He's got some issues he needs to work through on his own.

In the meantime, what plans do you have for yourself over the next 6 months? You seem to always have something cool in the works!
I just need to vent. So I don't send an e-mail to Roger. Him coming over to get more stuff last night sent me into a bit of a spiral. He's so friendly, things seem on the verge of normal, and it drives me nuts! So many reminders of what we had a week ago, so many moments where it feels like I could have it back. Grrrrrrr. I almost wish he'd be mean so I wouldn't feel so hopeful. But I know then I'd be wondering how he could be so mean. So it's a catch-22.

Ugh. Anyways, on to my rant.

How do you throw away 3 years of life and love without a fight? With barely a whimper? I don't know, I've never done it. It makes no sense to me. I can't fathom it.

Yet I keep ending up with people who think years of coupledom isn't even worth a fight. I don't know how I keep picking them. But I am sick of being good enough to marry, but divorce. Good enough to live with, but leave. Good enough to be a friend, partner, lover, but with an expiration date.

He says he made an effort. That he's been trying. Maybe I just don't see it. To me, trying would be fighting. Trying would be scheduling date nights, trying to create romantic moments. Trying would be buying some new silk boxers, buying me lingerie, asking me to go to Fredericks/Victoria's Secret with him. Trying would be asking to go to counseling. He did buy me flowers once in the last few months. They were very pretty, I put them in a vase on the coffee table so I could see them every evening. But I don't see it other than that.

Things were strained, that was obvious. Since he went back on the Cymbalta our sex life had taken a serious hit. At first it was him adjusting to the drugs, he felt nauseous, dizzy, had insomnia. Then it was difficulty orgasming and falling asleep the minute his head hit the pillow. It was a joke with my old college roommate, "his antidepressants are making me depressed." But since things seemed fine other than that, I tried not to worry too much. We were still talking every day, cuddling at night. It would have been nice if our talking every day didn't seem to consist mostly of him complaining about work, finances, the house to do list, how he needed to work out, how much he ached this winter, but he wasn't complaining about me or us, that's always good right? I thought so....stupid me.

I tried to distract him sometimes when I could work up the energy and guts to brave what seemed to be an almost constant grumpiness. Tried to find ways to make him smile. I put some notes in his work bag. I was really hurt the last time I used the Why I Must Have Sex With You check boxes. The first thing he said about it was about the fact that I had checked "I'll pay you". I shouldn't have checked that as I did it out of frustration. I wasn't in the mood to joke about paying him for sex. I was so frustrated with our sex life I wanted to scream. Who knows how he meant it, but the fact that he focused on that box instead of the others I had checked really hurt my feelings. What I had hoped would spark some flirting instead led to a few exchanges that felt awkward to me and left me feeling decidedly unsatisfied with the result.

I need to get a new uniform, so I asked him if he could measure me. He started in about how measuring for a uniform should be similar to how suits are measured and he's good at that because he used to work in the men's department. I tried to turn it into some flirting, "no, I'm sure measuring ME will be more fun." He didn't even get it til I tried a couple times. Then it fell totally flat, not a flirt in response. Just both of us feeling frustrated it seemed. I'm sure he is good at it, and I'm sure it is not that much different in a professional way, but I don't want him to be professional about it. I want him to be silly and perverted. But the opportunity for him to put his hands all over me still hasn't been seized. Ugh.

New lingerie hasn't even all been seen. The last two times I tried to get his attention with lacy things he said, in chronological order "that looks very 80s". Didn't sound like a compliment to me the way he said it. The bra and underwear that a moment before I had hoped would spark some desire, that had made me feel pretty and sexy, instead left me feeling unloved and unwanted. The last time, I put a new black and red lacy bra and underwear on and came out to the living room to model for him, he said "that's nice." I'm standing there freezing cold and now feeling super rejected and the best he can do it "really nice, sorry, I'm distracted." I went and put clothes back on and cried in the bathroom. I could barely make myself come back out to the living room I was so mortified. Needless to say I wasn't about to try again without some encouragement and reassurance from him.

Then he starts dropping the "we need to talk" a few times. But he always follows it up with not now, not tonight, not here. Not something. UGH! You can't say something like that and leave it hanging! That's cruel! But he did. Several times. I was vacillating between thinking he wanted to break up and thinking that maybe we'd finally get at some of the issues that had cropped up over the last few months. I was hoping for the latter with all my heart, but what I got was the former. You're my best friend, but... we met when we were both in a bad place and we helped each other heal (this was news to me as I didn't feel I was in a bad place at all. I was 18 months S from XH, feeling like I'd found my equilibrium and independence and fun again, I had trust issues, but I wasn't depressed or anything). ILYBNILWY.

I cried so much that night. And we talked. Talked about things that should have been talked about months before. It was great to talk about some of that stuff, but so frustrating. He didn't see how things could be fixed. Therefore they were over. We both agreed on what was wrong, but where I saw it as a temporary problem, he saw it as the end. So much for commitment.

A week later I'm still in shock. I've cried gallons of tears, but I don't feel any better. The littlest reminders set me off. I miss him so much. He acts like everything is fine, that we can just move into being friends like nothing has happened. But I can't. I still can't believe he just ended it without even a fight. Fights precipitate a break-up, isn't that one of the rules? I live for the times I just feel numb, when I'm so emotionally drained that I can shut my brain off. I can almost function as a normal human being during those times.

And he's being nice. Friendly. Checking on me by text, IM, facebook. It's driving me nuts. I vacillate between thinking he's doing it to ease his guilt and thinking he really does feel like we're just friends and he's being friendly, not daring to think that maybe he's missing me, regretting his decision. I like that there is not all the drama of affairs and screaming fights, but in some ways it is harder. We were best friends, something I've always wanted in a partner, but with more. There was cuddling and sex and so much more. But now, things feel so close to how they were sometimes, like they could just go back to normal if I could just get him into bed. Part of me wants that so badly, but I'm so hurt and angry that the thought is repulsive.

He wants me to come to his housewarming part on Saturday still. The thought makes me nauseous. To have to put on a smile for all his friends, act like it doesn't bother me that he dumped me, pretend that we can be just friends. I am not that good an actress. I'm holding on by a thread most days, most hours. The tears are always threatening. I had to bring extra tissue to work and put some in my car. I'm on the verge of being a weepy mess constantly it feels like. Except around him. One of the things I learned well during the divorce was that being a begging weepy mess is not attractive and only makes them feel pressured and guilty. Not to mention my pride makes me try and look and act my best when he's around.

I'm not even sure what I want at this point. Part of me says don't walk away from a 3+ year relationship without a fight. But I'm so tired of fighting. I fought so hard for and with XH, I don't feel like I have it in me again. The thought is daunting, exhausting. Besides, all the work I did during the S from XH resulted in a one month sorta reconciliation followed by him running back to OW. Not even close to the payout I was working for. So I told myself it was good for me to do the work, that I'd benefit in my future relationships. But now I can't even believe that. I'm back where I was 4 years ago except with the responsibility of a dog dumped on me.

No need to respond to particulars. I just needed to vent.
Maybe you need to let him know that it is just too painful for you to carry on as friends right now. You still want the relationship, you believe things can be worked out but right now you can't be miss friendly sunshine.

Let him know and then stop replying to texts etc for now.

kat
I fully agree with kat. You are tearing yourself apart an it sounds like you could really use some distance just to regroup. Definiely tell him that this is not what you want and that you feel this can be solved and your R can grow from it but you need to put the 'friends' thing on hold for now because it is hurting you.
Yes, I think I will do that.
"I will not be coming to your housewarming party. I am happy for you, but I cannot bring myself to celebrate anything with you right now. I do not feel like we are just friends, and at the moment, through all the pain, I don't feel we are friends either. I see nothing insurmountable about the issues we were having and do not understand the mindset of walking away without even an argument, without a chance to put things right. I cannot smile for all your friends and pretend that I am okay.

I can bring Kelsey down, just let me know."

Thoughts?
Too many excuses. You can't come, you'll drop off Kelsey if he'd like. And even that might be a bit much, except that you could use the break from doggie responsibilities.

No need to talk about friends, just friends, or fixing anything. He knows all that anyway, or he'll figure it out.
And ((((((((Michelle))))))))
Yeah, figures.


(((Jeff)))
Actually, I thought it was fine but I'm not a guy so what do I know? Big hugs sweetie.

Kat
I left more in than Jeff would be happy with.

I really did feel the need to make it clear that we are not on the same page in this whole thing as he seems hell bent to make it out to be a mutual break up.

(((Kat)))
It's ok! I just thought it came across as too friendly, ironically!
Reply already

Michelle,

I understand why you won't be coming to the party and I will tell your friends that they are excused from coming since u will not be there.
As for the issues, lack of arguments and the mindset being insurmountable, that is not my feeling at this time...
I have brought up these issues NUMEROUS times and said that I was unhappy. (Not recently that's for sure)
You would sit there in silence and never retort, comment or defend yourself in those cases. (He always talks to fast for me. By the time I'm dealing with number 1, he's on number 5 and impatient. I've told him I need him to slow down, but he acts like it's an option for me, like I just want more time, not that I NEED more time. And I certainly don't do it to infuriate him)
Overall though, i feel that every time we do talk I do all the talking and I get almost no response from you each time... It is infuriating.
You did attempt a few things and those things I did appreciate greatly.
I could go on and discuss this in writing but prefer to do it in person.
Perhaps one day when you decide to open yourself up and volunteer your emotions, feelings and what makes you tick then we can have a discussion.

I do miss you and Kelsey and hopefully the pain will pass and we can be friends again.

Me
My reply:

I don't LIKE to take time to reply to you. I don't LIKE to have time to formulate an answer. I NEED time.

Something happens in my brain when things get beyond a certain stress level. It's like my brain shuts down in some survival mode where emotions don't matter, no, don't exist. Blame my Dad, blame Neal, blame whomever you want, but this is the reality I live with. I literally have to sit there and pry it out of myself. I start by asking myself how I feel about what you just said. Good or bad emotion? Bad. Okay then, what emotion exactly, hurt? No, that doesn't sound right. Betrayed, no not that either. Angry? Maybe. What about it makes me angry? By the time I've gotten here you've long moved on and now I'm trying to follow my own train of thought as well as deal with the new stuff you are bringing up. I don't do it on purpose. I don't do it to infuriate you or dodge issues. In fact, I hate it when you raise issues, assume my silence means I'm not going to respond, and either move on to another topic or drop the conversation because then I am not only left trying to sort through the morass of thoughts in my head but trying to figure out a time to bring it up with you and no time ever seems good.
His reply:

Michelle I don't blame anyone from your life.
Actually in fact I sometimes blame myself for not being patient enough.
I understand you have communication issues, but from my point of view it looks like avoidance when i hear not a peep. Not even a "i don't know and can't respond right now" .
I don't know that you want to talk about it. That makes it appears that it gets brushed aside. That's what is frustrating.
The issue never returned to, when you are ready and ask to talk about it... that's why i think it get's chucked.
This makes me feel like my arguements are worthless sometimes.
After 3 years I would have hoped you would have at least said something to me about our communication issues. I thought i had mentioned that it bothered me.
And my response:

Yeah well, when you don't give me the time to respond, I feel like my thoughts and feelings aren't worth waiting for. So I empathize with you. And I'm very sorry you feel that way, that was never my intention. And I'm sure you never meant to make me feel dismissed either.

I don't feel like you are getting it. My mind literally goes blank. There's nothing. Saying "I can't respond to that right now" would require me to actually form the thought that I couldn't respond to that right now. When what I'm fighting against is literally nothing. It's like fighting through breakwater and sucking in foam, just trying to figure out which way is up.

And I don't want to talk about it later. If I'm already gonna deal with the morass of thoughts and try and pick feelings out of wherever they run and hide, I'd rather only do it once. What I want is for you to be even more patient (you are pretty patient with me, I really can't criticize for that). What I want is for you to be more focused and let me try and work through one issue at a time. Even help me by asking questions, but not by tabling it for later. Then we have to live with the distance, the unresolved issues, for even longer. And there's enough of those to choke on already.

As for bringing things up when I'm ready, I'll never be ready. So I just have to pick my half baked time to jump in. And no time ever feels right or good. And frankly, I haven't felt that you were very approachable the last few months. Anyways, enough with my excuses. I know it's a problem, I know plenty about why it's a problem, but that doesn't make it better. I need to keep working on coping with it, just like I've spent the last 4 years trying to learn how to do.

As for you telling me that you want to improve our communication, yes you have brought it up. Not recently, but you have brought it up. It's perfectly clear to me that it bothers you. It bothers me as well. And it bothers me that it bothers you. And it bothers me that I have apparently never managed to convey to you that it bothers me.

Your arguments aren't worthless. Your feelings aren't worthless. And I'm sorry I ever made you feel differently.
Anyways. Pick me all to pieces. smile

I've got a fire going in the fireplace, drinking some apple cider, and re-watching some Doctor Who. Took the dog for an extra long walk to clear my head. exercise definitely helps.
No picking you to pieces. I really think you said what needed to be said. It's up to him how he receives it.

So, this shutting down thing.....I had no idea you were facing that. Do you think it's something you could seek therapy for? It sounds like a major mental block and there must be some sort of a key you could unlock that with. Hmmmm........
I have my avoidance tendencies from dealing with an overbearing controlling dad. The whole trauma and drama surrounding everything with XH really sent things to a whole other level though. Unfortunately, as you well know, knowing why something is happening doesn't change it. The bit of therapy I tried during the S was completely unhelpful. I have considered EMDR or CBT as I don't think anything short of that would be remotely helpful.
I would think CBT might be more effective.
Hi Michelle,

I'm very sorry for what you're going through.

I just wanted to comment on the blank-mind-while-under-stress-&-inability-to-reply thing. I suffered from it as well, and it drove my H crazy. I have since learned that it's the reptilian portion of the brain's response to perceived danger. In my case, I learned to do this as a child being molested; others shut down/freeze while being verbally or physically abused.

The reptilian brain over-rides the other 2 parts of the brain when it perceives danger, and it can't distinguish between past and present situations which "feel" the same, so it snaps the adult into the same child-like frozen state where thinking & feeling seem to slow down and getting any words out is almost impossible. My H also pointed out that my breathing became very shallow and slow whenever this occurred.

My point is, when I forgave my abuser, going through a multi-stage forgiveness program (created by Gary Pettitt and available on the internet, though it can also be completed with a therapist), that issue gradually ended for me. I also applied the program to forgiving my H for his EA.

Now, my head remains clear even when I'm quite distressed, and I'm able to identify my emotions, talk calmly about them, and really "be there." If my H notices that I'm stressed, he just reminds me to breathe more deeply and the feeling passes.

Take courage--it is quite possible to drop those avoidance tendancies, because although learning them was forced upon you, you can choose to unlearn them, and it's just such a huge release to do so. I found the whole forgiveness process to be an interesting challenge--figuring out all the ways that abuse/betrayal had impacted me, and turning them around to affirm all the positives I really believed--it was not a traumatic experience at all.

Hugs.
And maybe, meanwhile, communicating in WRITING rather than speaking to each other, might be a better way to discuss painful topics?

Also - have you read the Five Love Languages book? If you haven't, read it. It sounds like he wasn't hearing you speak his language, and that may be at the core of your issues. Once you read and understand how that works, you may be able to express your love to him better.
Yes Cyrena. Exactly, and yes I know it's a reptilian brain issue. Glad to know someone out there gets it, even if it's not Roger lol.

kml, that does help. Thus the e-mails.

5LL, yes I have. I tried to get him to do the quiz on the website, he said and I quote, they are all good. Trying to get him to pick which one/two he identified with most was fruitless. It would help me so much if I knew what to focus on.
E-mail back to me:

Originally Posted By: Roger
I am sorry too Michelle,

I know that neither one of us ever intended to hurt each other or make the other feel insignificant. We have always been so good to each other that it would NEVER be our intention.
Or at least i should say you have very good to me.

You are right... I didn't understand until last night. I read this right before going to bed and it dawned on me what happens when you are confronted emotionally. What I gather is that you shut down emotionally like a protection mode so you can't get hurt. Then try to rationalize your emotions... does this sound right? Your description here is very clear especially when u talk about coming up for air and getting foam... smile that I know all too well.
He's a surfer, thus why I picked that analogy lol.

Originally Posted By: Roger
As for issues, I have tried to be patient beyond my ability. Ergo why i became unruly over the past few months... the waiting for you to come around really did a number on me.
I am not going anywhere and so if you want to talk these issues out one by one now I am OK with that.
That's if I can ever figure out what's on his list lol.

Originally Posted By: Roger
I do however need my time alone. It's been tough to have a partner that is constantly there.
That is not a negative on you, it's just something that I have always had issues with. That's what makes it so difficult for me.
It has always been this way with anyone I date... it's just a part of me ever since i was a kid. I was happiest in my room playing with my toys alone. Now as an adult it's sitting and having a whiskey by myself and browsing the net in silence.
Definitely true, and while I wonder if it had to do with staying away from his stepdad and just not knowing how to deal with a lot of the things going on in his life then, I have always tried to let him have his space. There were nights he would come home and go into the office and close the door and not come out til dinner or so. That all changed with the dog though as she needed to be walked in the evenings. Hmmmm. That's food for thought.

Originally Posted By: Roger
You stated that bringing things up when you are ready is very difficult because you are never ready. That's why i hate doing it too...
The problem is the longer they get buried the worse they fester ... take it from me, the emotional train-wreck.
I've repressed issues from my childhood all the way up till about 10 years ago... All it did was rot and made me bitter and more angry as time passed. That is why i learned to approach it right away and get it out. I haven't spent 10's of 1000s of dollars in therapy on myself to walk away empty handed.
The tools I have now help me work through any issues I have.. And I have a LOOOOOONGG way to go imo.
Don't we all lol.

Originally Posted By: Roger
I do really appreciate your honesty and kindness... I do appreciate that you are not dismissing my arguments and reasoning. Most of all I do appreciate that you are now making an effort to clear the air and making a very concerted effort to voice your pain. That does mean a lot to me.
WEll - I would guess Quality Time is definitely one of his LL's, since he's so concerned about you opening up to him and talking to him.

AS for his second LL - think back to his responses in the past. Would he rather have a mushy card and a compliment, or have you buy him that exact gadget out of the catalogue that he said he wanted? (Words of Affirmation versus Gifts). Is he effusively grateful if you make some crafty thing for him, or does he make some comment about not knowing what to do with it, or the one from the store being better? (Acts of Service versus Gifts?)

And if he does lots of Acts of Service for YOU (detailing your car, bringing you tea and coffee, etc) he is probably someone who wants to hear Words of Affirmation.

On the other hand, if he's a guy who always wants to hold your hand, rub your shoulders, sit touching you, lots of hugs and kisses - he's a Physical Touch guy. (Dang, I've only briefly dated one of those since my divorce - I'm definitely Physical Touch myself, it was quite lovely to be with a guy who liked it too smile He was one of the inappropriately young ones though. frown My current boyfriend is more like my ex - I think he would prefer I didn't touch him so much, so I try to keep my hands to myself.)
D. All of the above. *sigh*

He is pretty touchy, helps out a lot around the house (dishes, cooking, helping me work on my car, whatever). He seems to like AOS, he is appreciative of gifts, he likes quality time (definitely over quantity of time lol, he likes his alone time). He has never said anything less than complimentary, been less than appreciative about anything I have gotten for him or done for him. He is scrupulous about saying thank you.

He likes to talk more than anyone I've ever been with. More than some of my gfs even lol. I think that's a product of having 2 older sisters, 1 younger, and being very close to his mom when she was alive (she died when he was in college). He definitely isn't lacking in vocabulary lol.
So I responded to his e-mail earlier today:
I know you know enough anatomy to understand the biology of it. From that perspective what happens is that the basal ganglia/r-complex/reptilian brain takes over from the neocortex and limbic system. It's a freeze response, like a deer in headlights, everything slows down (randomly, I wonder if it ever seems that way from outside, like does my breathing slow down, muscle movements, etc.?). And no conscious part of my brain is in control of it.

The problem is, anything that feels like past situations that have triggered that response will trigger it again since the reptilian brain has no sense of time or logic. And I'm still figuring out what those triggers are (mostly things that could be perceived as verbal/emotional bullying, not that I am saying you do that, but it can be as little as an angry look or gesture that would have preceded a rampage by Neal). And I also don't quite understand why some times are more paralyzing than others.

I don't know what you mean by waiting for me to come around. Come around to what? And how was waiting supposed to bring that about?

As for the space issue, I know you like more alone time than I do. I always tried to be understanding when you wanted to be in the office and leave you be. I guess you didn't have that once you started moving your stuff though. It's hard not to have a space that's yours. I don't begrudge you that. I know the whole dynamic of that changed with the dog, but I really wouldn't have minded if you wanted to walk the dog and then go in the office or read in the other room. When it bothers me is when I don't feel like you are really there any of the time. For example, we got into the very bad habit of watching a lot of TV in the evenings (I think at any rate, much as I love MASH and Firefly and such). A lot of that time I felt like it was a distraction rather than quality time together. I'm pretty simple when it comes to feeling loved and appreciated. I appreciate gifts, flowers, I'll always take compliments, but nothing gets me more than holding hands, rubbing my shoulders, touching my leg, kissing the back of my neck. Maybe it's just me, but I don't find just being in the same room intimate. In retrospect, I reacted the opposite way I should have. I tried to make myself more available to you, spend more time with you, so that I wouldn't miss any opportunities. I totally neglected to factor in the fact that you wouldn't appreciate that because I was so focused on trying to get my own needs met.

I have no intention of letting things fester and go for years. I haven't even been doing that the last 4 years although you may not see it that way.
And his response this evening:
I see... Now i totally understand your fear of confrontation.
I figured it was due to the bloody noses u got from your sister(kinda joking kinda not) or maybe your father's not so subtle intimidation... (thinking of kelsey's visit)
I was proud of you when you stood up to your dad at the Navy Graduation and told him he was acting childish.
That, I think, was a big step for you...

As for your issues of confrontation perhaps seeking help with that will make things a bit easier in the future
I used to totally be the same way. Fear ... total fear would lock me down... I could never argue.
I have had to learn to calm myself and think then speak.

About for the waiting for you to come around was regarding the times where we had discussions that i received no response.
I was hoping you would bring it up later so we could hash it out on your terms ... i thought perhaps that would help you.
I was hoping you would sense my distancing and pulling away and at least ask about that.
Gradually My walls became stronger for my protection.

It is so unfortunate that such a drastic measure had to be taken to get a reaction from you.

I hope you understand my reasons for calling it quits.
If not, I have no problem explaining myself.

Perhaps in time you and I can rebuild our friendship. I would like that a lot.


Is it just me, or does that infuriate anyone else? There's something so irritating about putting the time and effort into trying to have this conversation only to have him shut it down. So much of his response the last couple months has been so passive aggressive. We're still back to the same things. No you didn't have to do something so drastic to get a reaction from me, you could have talked to me, asked to do counseling, tried a different actions, communication medium, etc etc etc ad nauseum. And no I don't understand your reasons for bailing. Ugh.
I'm feeling like his responses are a bit condescending... maybe it's just the way I'm reading them.... but "waiting for you to come around" sounds a lot like, "I'm right, you are wrong, why can't you see that?"

I think he may have hit the nail on the head: "It has always been this way with anyone I date... it's just a part of me ever since i was a kid. I was happiest in my room playing with my toys alone. Now as an adult it's sitting and having a whiskey by myself and browsing the net in silence." I'm not sure he wants a real long term releationship. I don't like saying it, but that's what I am seeing, at least to a degree. He doesn't mind having someone around, when he wants them around. But he doesn't seem to really want a partner. I'm not saying you should do everything together, we know that really doesn't work. But there are least has to be a bit of understanding and communication.

Anyway, I think that's why he's bailing, and probably why he is single. He, for whatever reason, doesn't want a real relationship. Not just with you, but with anyone.
Yeah, I was hearing patronizing/condescending too.

I started to draft a response back, but it got way too snarky and b!tchy.

The turning point was when I tried to sum up why he bailed...

I understand you didn't feel appreciated and loved right now, but I don't see how that translates into needing to end the relationship. There were a million unexplored options from talking to me, to retrouvaille, to couples therapy. Instead what happened was you set a test for me, didn't tell me about it, didn't tell me the deadline or what I was being graded on, then when I failed, you decided that was the death knell of our relationship.
I tend to agree with Jeff. I think what he needs is a good dose of what life without Michelle is really like. I would seriously curtail all but absolutely necessary contact now. Then IF he decides he's made a mistake and wants to explore reconciling you can decide if that is what you want and under what terms.

You are a veteran and know the drill to keep your sanity and mind off of all of this stuff constantly - GAL, etc.

Sorry you are in this situation.

BA
*sigh* Now he's IMing me

[10:47] roger: Hey. Sory to hear you are having issues with pup. Perhaps your mom can take some time out during the day to care for her?. If she becomes too much let me know.
[11:01] roger: Also... I will say that I have been seriously considering rescuing a lab. I miss having a pup around. The easy part for you would be to drop doggie off in the morning to play with lab .. I would just need about 1 more month of letting the grass set
One might consider that if he is wanting to adopt a dog, you know one that could be available.

It's irritating, now he want's to solve all your problems.... except the one he could solve!
Yeah. I have thus far refrained from replying since the least b!tchy response I can come up with is "You already know we're both irreplaceable"
Well I wouldn't answer him. I find it insulting that after leaving both you and the dog, he has the gall to tell you that he misses not you but instead having a pup around!
Boy, do I agree with BA. What an insult! Grrrr!!!!

Lay low girl! There is no need to answer him. No need to share anything at all with him right now. He needs to experience life without you in it. To use a DB term.....go dark.

OH, I'M SO DARN MAD AT HIM RIGHT NOW I COULD SPIT!
Me too girls!

Part of me says when he says he misses her, it's an indirect way of saying he misses us both. But since he has made no move towards me, that would just be giving him the benefit of the doubt.

The other part of me is just mad.

So, plans for tomorrow are coming together. My good friend is driving the two hours up from Livermore to hang out with me. We're gonna hang out, have lunch, then go to the west coast swing lesson.
Fun!!!!!!!
So, is the new mattress 'dreamy'? LOL Gee, I crack myself up!
LOL. You are so silly, you crack me up too!

New mattress is pretty comfy. Definitely a switch going from a full sized futon to a queen mattress. It'll take my back a few days to adjust I am sure!
Wow....you can sleep diagonally now!
I know I sleep better on my Serta than on any of my previous mattresses. I am so sleep deprived, I am out within a few minutes of turning off the light and hitting the pillow!

Hope you get to enjoy your mattress. With great sleep I mean for now and well sure, okay, the other stuff too! wink

kat
I think Roger has a Serta, or maybe it was Sealy. Mine is a Simmons.

Yeah, I definitely need some help breaking it in. wink
Originally Posted By: MichelleLT
Yeah, I definitely need some help breaking it in. wink
Oh my! blush
I just stopped in 'cause I liked your thread title, and look what I found.
Kat started it! LOL

So, Roger was IMing me this am. I haven't initiated contact except when related to the dog, but he definitely is not being shy about contacting me.

[09:58] roger: Hey
[09:58] roger: Is puppy still whining when u leave?
[10:01] mi: the verdict is still out
[10:01] mi: yesterday, nothing. but it was pouring rain, so she stayed on the covered part of the patio
[10:01] mi: today she ran around side yard and scratched at the fence, but didn't cry/whine
[10:01] mi: at least that i could hear. who knows what she did after i pulled away
[10:02] mi: i didn't hide treats the last two mornings, but i put my mp3 docking station out there with the radio on low
[10:04] roger: i wonder... if we buy her enough kongs she can't bury them all
[10:04] roger: LOL
[10:04] roger: She's got to run outta space eventually..
[10:04] mi: before or after I run out of lawn?
[10:10] mi: http://petyourdog.net/default.aspx
[10:10] mi: I am gonna meet with the owner this week
[10:11] mi: maybe arrange some doggie daycare periodically
[10:26] roger: Lol Yeah... is she back to digging again?
[10:26] mi: not bad
[10:27] roger: hmmm sounds bored (love how he wants to blame it on boredom and not that one of her pack has mostly abandoned her)
[10:27] mi: i've rotated the toys out there
[10:27] roger: yeah brb need to reboot
[10:27] mi: we've been going for longer walks in the evening since i have no reason to hurry back to the house
[10:28] mi: ok
[11:01] roger: my motivation went back to peanut sized...
[11:01] roger: I'm being booted after 6 months with no chance of job
[11:04] roger: I think it's time to go back to school
[11:04] roger: for what? who the hell knows
[11:13] mi: so, you get the contract extension
[11:14] mi: but there's no permanent positions?
[11:40] roger: nope they are hiring Eng only
[11:40] roger: techs will be going perm contract
[11:41] roger: they are working with another tech recruiter who offeres techs perm contracts
[11:41] roger: effin BS...
[11:42] mi: meaning they don't have to have the break between contracts?
[11:43] roger: right
[11:43] roger: i'd rather take the breaks
[11:55] roger: wheeew what a friggen crazy day
[11:57] mi: well, nice part about being more perm would be more benefits / time off accrued i guess
[11:57] mi: but hard to beat 6 mo off lol
[12:10] roger: lol yeah
[12:10] roger: i still have to take the 6 months off
[12:10] roger: for now...
[12:10] roger: to be continued
Geeze! He really seems to think you are his best friend! I don't know how to cut it off... but somehow I don't think it's helping.
Texts this evening:

Roger - If you want to give puppy a day off you can drop her at my house tomorrow.

Me - I'd rather not mess with her routine right now. Especially with nicer weather this week. At least she can be outside all day here. Thanks for the offer though.

Roger - OK sounds good. smile
Hi Michelle,
I just read what's going on. I am sorry. I always thought that your R seemed so balanced and mature, so "grown up". You sounded independent and that is something I admire very much. From what I read today, maybe the picture I got was correct but it was due to his inability to "connect" deeper. I cant really tell.

How do you feel about him? Apart from the anger and hurt, etc etc. Is he worth the energy if you were to emerge in a whole new adventure of DBing?
Love always
K
I thought it seemed pretty balanced as well. A great mix of best friends with benefits lol. Now he says we're just best friends. Except, now, we're not best friends anymore either.

I waffle on whether I want him to give things another try. When I am feeling down and drained, it seems like way too much. Other times, I have no doubts that it could be great.

Mostly I am dark where it doesn't concern the dog. I guess I am in LRT both for myself and the possibility of saving the relationship.

It is good of you to drop in though. Glad to "see" you!

(((Kalni)))
So....I replied to Roger's last e-mail from last week.

I shouldn't have. I was and still mad about what he had said.

But I did.

Text below...

I did some therapy during the separation/divorce about a year before we met. I found it totally useless. I have instead been doing a combination of solution-based therapy and cognitive reprogramming on my own.

As for understanding why you think you had to call it quits, I understand you felt unappreciated, that you didn't feel loved or passionate right now. But no, I don't understand why you had to dump me. I have never abandoned someone that I have invested love and time in without a fight, actually a lot of them. And I can't understand why anyone would, the concept is totally foreign to me.

I sensed your withdrawal, but you blamed your moods on work, finances, the house, needing to work out, being in pain, reactions to your medications, etc etc etc. Nowhere did you ever say it had anything to do with me. In fact, "us" was the only thing that you weren't complaining about, so that obviously meant we were fine as far as I was concerned. So it was a complete shock to me when you dropped the "we need to talk."

There were plenty of other options from talking to me to asking to do counseling together. We could have done a Retrouvaille workshop (there's one next month in Sac), a relationship enrichment seminar (also one next month in Sac), couples counseling, set up a time to talk each week, etc etc etc. There are a million options that weren't explored. So drastic a measure was not required to get a reaction out of me, you had my attention and my commitment to working on improving things. But you had to tell me something was wrong with us, I'm just not that good a mind reader.

You tell all your friends about the importance of communication and trying different things. You coach Kevin on how to talk to Kim, actions to try when dealing with things like her problem with remembering to bring her lunch containers home. You coach Annette on how to talk to Mike. Maybe you should try taking some of your own advice sometime.
Just for journaling, his e-mail response from last night (I didn't read it til this am)

I know that you did some therapy and have been doing your own work. Do you think it helped? Do you feel that you had been able to communicate to the best of your abilities?
In my opinion none of it did. If you feel the need to retreat during any argument, It almost sounds like what you told me about Neal was about you. You stated that every time a disagreement came up he felt it was a fight... I am quoting you.. and then you say you recoil at conflict.... Could you also be referring to yourself? I am asking because now i am confused.

Perhaps you misunderstood me. I didn't feel unappreciated, actually the truth was I felt greatly appreciated. I also felt very loved; however you are correct in saying I felt no passion from you.
I am sorry that you feel abandoned. In all honesty do you really feel that I didn't fight for passion? Do you feel i didn't put any effort in? Did I not tell you that of all the relationships I put the most effort into this one because it meant the most.
As for my reasons for leaving. Do you think it would be fair to you if I stayed with you while I my passionate feelings for you had all but completely dissolved because of my feelings of rejection?
This may seem very gruff and totally mean to say but I have done my best to communicate with you how i felt about things and us.
I had brought this up on numerous occasions and you saying that i didn't communicate to you how i felt is a bit ... absurd.

My withdrawal began due to the "moods, work, finances , health, house etc"... but they also had begun when I started feeling like a friend and not your lover. I attributed all of my feelings to those things that you felt and that's when i began speaking with MY therapist about it. That's when i realized something else was wrong. I tried working through it and realized one of the most important things was missing from my relationship. My partner did not physically desire me. You and I again talked about it. Your response was "then let's do something about it. All we do is talk about it but never do anything about it. That's when I said to you "it doesn't work like that for me. Talking about that gets me upset and it's difficult to become aroused when I'm upset" Then it went right back to nothing again.

The conflict within me was another reason. This conflict was between my feelings for you and yours for me. You loved me deeply. I loved you as a dear companion and friend.
I realized that I wasn't in love. I felt like an old married couple after 2 1/2 years. Yes I did consider going to couples therapy but then i asked myself one very important question...
"Am I in love with her? and If i am not then why try to save a relationship that has lost all of its passion?...
Michelle... for 8 months I worked on my own personal garbage, thinking it ws keeping me from falling in love with you. Apparently I was wrong.
I wanted to love you and fall for you but as time went on I fell away. IS that fair to you ? Or would you rather I come back and live a lie?
Which leads me communication...

I did try talking to you numerous times about our issues with sex... You asked what I like... I said Lingerie. So you went out and spent 140$ on Fredrick's when afterwords you said that it was "outside your comfort zone"... Was that my fault? I had spoken with you many times about how you fell asleep on me so that made me feel rejected. Your mom actually cleared that up. She said "Michelle was an easy baby all i had to do was rub her back and she would fall right to sleep." I nodded to myself thinking "yup". I had also given you numerous pointers that sex needs to be given and received from both sides. Each person needs to give as much as receive. Because most of your experience has been with men who do nothing but take, I felt the only way i was going to get you to initiate was to ask you ... So I did
Where's the spontaneity in that?.. That got old very fast

Next for communication. You had told me that any time we spoke about something you retreated because of your reaction to conflict... I got more out of you the night we broke up than all those nights that we tried to talk and you shut down. How is that fair to me regarding communication. I tried to talk things out the beginning but i lost my patience very quickly because I felt like I was the only one who ever initiated sex or conversations on issues.
Now... why didn't I decide to go to counseling with you? Because I thought it was my issues that were clouding our issues. So I worked on my issues.
As for you backing off and giving me the space I needed, I did appreciate it but I thought you were trying to avoid me going into a depressive tailspin... Perhaps you were...

That goes right back to fairness. How is that fair to you that all of my issues become your burden?
You are right about one thing. I wasn't all fair to you. I didn't give the ultimate effort that you deserved. i could have but unfortunately I gave up when I got frustrated.
But honestly... Would you want to be with someone who didn't love you as much as you loved them? Where is the fairness in that?

I am sorry that I hurt you. I never intended to. I did try to the best of my abilities and that is the god damned truth.
Michelle it sounds like he is doing a lot of blaming onto you and it is not you. This isn't you, it is him. If he felt you were 'just friends' then he was the one that let it become that way not you. These are his feelings and he should take ownership of them instead of explaining what you did to make him feel that way. It was his choice to feel that way.

You said he was on anti depressants? Could they or the reasons why he is on them be something to do with his lack of passion? 

There seems to be not a lot of point in discussion as he feels the need to defend his position and that makes him more rooted in it. Personally I would say, fine if that is how you feel I accept it. Then go dark, even over the puppy. You are being very kind to him at the moment and treating him like a friend reinforces his friendship idea in my opinion. 

It is just me but i would just simply not respond to his ims and things, he needs to feel what his life would be like without you. It is his loss.
He is on anti-depressants, anti-seizure meds, and prescription pain meds for chronic pain. All of which have sexual side effects. So yes, I believe that has something to do with these issues.
He has been doing a bit of blaming. Ironically, I found this response less blaming than I expected, especially considering how b!tchy I was in my e-mail to him lol.

Definitely his loss lol.
Yes, a whole lot of blaming going on on his side. But one BIG kernel of truth:

Quote:
But honestly... Would you want to be with someone who didn't love you as much as you loved them? Where is the fairness in that?


If he's not capable of sustaining and nourishing that feeling of being in love (and no it doesn't HAVE to dissipate into friendship, I felt "in love" with my ex for the entire 26 years we were together) - then it's NOT fair to you. You deserve someone who loves you as much as you love them. End of discussion.
Exactly what Julia said. He needs to experience life without Michelle which means no contact with him unless it is 911 worthy.
Preach it kml!

Michelle, you absolutely deserve someone who is just as passionate for you as you are for them. His loss - big time!

I do have a question though. Did you not initiate sex, ever? That seems like it was a big deal to him. If not, why not?
You know that bit about always remember to never use always and never? Of course I did. He is just focusing on the times I haven't. He also insists that he's only rejected my advances a handful of times over the last three years. I can think of more than 5 times in the last 6 months let alone the last 3 years.

If you've read SSM, when MWD says "In fact, they're noticing that for some people, sexual desire- the urge to become sexual- doesn't precede feeling aroused, it actually follows it. In other words, though you may rarely (or never) find yourself fantasizing about sex or feeling a sexual urge, if you're open to becoming sexual with your spouse, you will often find the sexual stimulation pleasurable and therefore feel the urge or desire to continue." That's me a lot of the time.

There were also times where I would have every naughty intention and the first words out of his mouth when we saw each other were the beginning of a 20 minutes rant about work or whatever. Total turn off. Needless to say, nothing would happen after that. I'd go work on dinner instead.
http://www.5min.com/Video/The-Correlation-Between-Marriage-and-Sex-291039949

Send him this link. From me.
Oooh! I can't wait to go home and see that!
It's a clip by David Schnarch of Passionate Marriage and Intimacy and Desire. I actually have both books now. Good stuff.

I don't think I will break my silence to send it to him...but I'm sure he'll find an excuse to contact me soon. I will definitely save the link.
He texted me to ask where his bbq cover was lol.

Then he commented on my facebook status about working on my car.

He really just can't be quiet LOL.
Good grief. Did you answer him or stay quiet?
I did reply eventually. Told him it was here at the house. He just said okay thanks.
Went to a concert by a local country band last night. Group is Whiskey Dawn. They are super talented! It was a blast. Bought their album, got it signed by the guys, and also got our pictures taken with them. Definitely worth $15 cover!
Text to him tonight:

I would appreciate it if you could start paying me back for the washer/dryer etc. A little per month is fine. EZPay or check or whatever is fine. Just let me know how you want to work it.

He owes me $1200 for stuff for his house still. Mostly the washer/dryer. I bought them through the PX for him on my credit card. I paid it off, so no interest there, but still lol.
Oh gees!
He texted me back a few hours later saying "will do. Will 4 payments work?"

I told him that was fine, thanks.

Then today he texted me saying "I just paid off my blinds. Can I give you a smaller payment today? Also what's the total I owe you? Sorry to hear you are sick." (I am home sick today from work, he saw it on Facebook I'm sure)

I texted him back "It's 1200. You can wait til the end of the week if you want. Thanks." (As a contractor, he gets paid weekly, so that would put it on his next paycheck)

He just said "OK, thanks."
Well, at least he's making arrangements and not forcing you to chase him for it.

Sorry you're sick. I'm still sick 24 days after the start and after antibotic. Whatever has been going around is horrible stuff! I'm hearing it from friends in CA, NV, AZ, CO, UT, NY, NJ, OH, NC....it's everywhere!
Indeed. Small blessings.

I am trying to be good to myself and nip this in the bud. Lots of tea, soup, and rest.
How are you feeling? Still sicky poo?

Has your poor little puppy dog been skunked yet? I hear you're having quite a problem up there right now!! smile
I am recovering slowly. Still drinking a lot of tea. Didn't work a full day yesterday.

Puppy dog is doing okay. She hasn't been skunked. She treed a raccoon a while back, but no skunks. I smell them every once in a while, but not bad.
My cousin lives in Discovery Bay and their poor dog had been sprayed twice. Poor baby. frown
Tab and enter are apparently confused in my head today! UGH!

Anyway...

Glad to hear you are feeling a little better. This illness everyone seems to have is just lingering for FAR too long.
[12:16] roger: I do need to come by some time and get the rest of my crap. are u gonna be around this weekend?
[12:18] roger: brb gonna heat up my lunch
[12:29] roger: back... so anyway let me know what u find out about TVs I'm curious... Not that I can buy a new one... I am broke
[12:30] roger: I shouldn't have bought that Stereo ... but oh well...
[12:31] mi: I have a meet and greet with the owner of P.E.T. Your Dog Saturday at 3
[12:32] mi: then of course John's birthday part that night
[12:32] roger: I forgot that I am going to Kim's B-day party sat night
[12:33] roger: Wish him a Happy birthday for me
[12:33] roger: So Pet your dog seems pretty cool
[12:33] mi: glad to know where i stand lol (I talked to Kim on her birthday, but didn't get an invite)
[12:34] roger: You are welcome to go and I was going to invite you but you seem like you don't want to be around my friends
[12:35] roger: It will be a game night so it shoud be fun
[12:35] roger: They asked if you wanted to go
[12:35] mi: They didn't ask me (why the F are they asking the guy who dumped me if I want to go?!?)
[12:36] mi: but I don't really know what to say to any of your friends anyways and I told John I'd come by
[12:37] roger: they didn't send the formal invites till after the HW (house warming) party
[12:37] roger: and they asked why u didn't stay at the HW party and I said because u felt a bit uncomfortable. your words i believe
[12:38] roger: So they didn't send u an invite since they felt awkward about asking you without asking me
[12:38] roger: does it make sense ?
[12:39] roger: Anyway I extended an invite you are welcome to go
[12:39] mi: I didn't really expect an invite
[12:39] mi: They are your friends and other than Annette I don't really talk to most of them
[12:39] roger: well You said 'they didn't invite me"... I was explaining why
[12:41] mi: I don't get why they'd expect you to pass along an invite, but I already have plans anyways
[12:42] roger_brann: ok
Why does he keep inviting me to stuff?!? And why when I say no does he keep going? This is like the housewarming invitations!
UGH! No clue why he would feel the need to do so.
And he still hasn't told me if/when he's coming by this weekend. Not a peep out of him after his "ok".
Then if he 'comes by' this weekend, I guess he'll just be disappointed that he made the drive since YOU WON'T BE AVAILABLE!!! smile
The thing is, I really do what his stuff gone. I hate having the whole house to myself with all those reminders.
*WANT. I hate the edit button not working!
True and understandable.

How are doing having the house to just you and Kelsey?
It's so quiet. And having a dog with separation anxiety is like having a kid. I can't go anywhere without making special arrangements. So I'm stuck at the house whether I want to be there or not.

I've been watching a lot of TV in the evenings, there's nothing else to do. I miss having someone to talk to. To cuddle up with. To keep me warm at night. UGH.
Murphy's law, I see he's gone quiet again...so he IMs me....

[14:39] roger: How much is Pet Your Dog cost?
[14:42] mi: www.petyourdog.net
*SAY
[14:47] roger: Cool sounds good
[14:49] mi: I'll be gone during the day Sunday February 12th
[14:49] mi: then overnight Sunday the 19th thru the 20th since I have President's Day off
[14:49] mi: then March 2, 3, 4 of course for drill
[14:53] mi: Kelsey would love to spend some time with you
[15:05] roger: I can watch her those days
[15:05] roger: I think
[15:06] roger: I may take her for the entire weekend up to tahoe to play with other doggies
[15:06] roger: and possibly play in the snow
[15:07] mi: which weekend?
[15:07] roger: Not sure yet
[15:07] roger: maybe pres day weekend
[15:08] roger: So I could take her that weekend if u want
[15:08] roger: I do miss her
[15:08] mi: she misses you too

and you don't have to not see her!!!!!!!!!! UGH
[15:09] roger: I get the 20th off too
[15:10] roger: So I could take her np if you want the time off
[15:11] mi: I'll be gone the 19th and 20th. So if you don't, someone will have to.
[15:12] roger: OK sounds good... I put in in my schedule that i will have her
[15:14] mi: What about the 12th?
[15:14] mi: I'll just be gone for the day
[15:14] roger: I can come by and get her on my way back from napa. What time are u gone?
[15:15] mi: All day. 10 to 5 or whenever.
[15:16] roger: OK I'll grab her on my way back through in the AM.
[15:17] mi: I can ask my mom if you prefer.
[15:19] roger: We will see... can u ask her for a just in case? I may be doing plant shopping while I'm out in napa
[15:20] mi: Okay. Thanks.
[15:21] roger: Sure... and I wanted to donate 20 bux towards your run
[15:21] roger: can u remind me next time i see u>?
[15:23] mi: Thanks

Couldn't think of anything besides Thanks. I'm shaking my head here.
Well, at least he's going to donate money to your cause! smile

Yep, shaking your head is about the only thing you can do right now.

He's not quite sure how to make a clean break because your lives were so entwined. He most likely doesn't want a clean break but obviously doesn't realize how it affects you.
He even came back later and said he was working overtime last night and he'd talk to me later before he signed off instant messenger.

It's like living in the Twilight Zone.
Started a new thread in SSM. Maybe I can get some more specific insight there since Surviving the Big D is not exactly on point lol.

This thread will not return to it's regularly scheduled fun.

As tomorrow is Friday, the virtual party will be here!
Ok, I will have to go see you over there. New territory for me. But since I am SS and Single I think I could learn some stuff. wink

kat
LOL. I'm not sure whether I'm SS and single or SS and DBing. But either way!

Apparently I could learn some stuff too!
I just caught up but I already knew all that so I kept my mouth shut! I want to learn something... LOL

kat
HAHAHAHAHAHA
I haven't learned anything exciting yet except that your responder didn't notice your 9000+ posts! Newcomers!!! ROFLMAO!!

kat
No kidding! And registration date in 2007?

Sheesh. Nobody over there is biting.
Time to bring out the fancy undies! That might get THEIR attention. wink I can't remember but has Roger ever been married?

kat
Haha!

No, he hasn't.
You know it could really be a mix of things...fear of commitment, a bit if a I am xxx number of years old and I haven't done such and such, his meds and probably just thinking that you were always supposed to feel those PEA's.

My ex actually told me that he must not be in love with me anymore because he hadn't felt that 24/7 excitement for a long time. Grow up boys and start acting like men!!

kat
PEAs?
sorry, I have been on that other site everyone ran off to.

Those are the drugs your body produces when you first fall for someone. More of a lust drug I think that keeps you both interested through the early stages of relationships. What, you say, those don't last forever?? Well not to the same degree that's for sure!

Love is work and anyone who says any different is a fool.

kat
Right. Makes sense.

And yes, it is.

Text from roger: "What time is John's (my neighbor's) party tomorrow night?" I text back: I'm not really sure. He just said to drop by. He just texted me, OK. I thought I'd drop by for a bit.

Ummmm. Weird! I can't uninvite him, John invited him. But weird!
I guess I'm gonna keep my journaling mostly here.

[15:44] roger: Hey there
[15:52] mi: what's up?
[16:00] roger: sorry it's crazy at work
[16:00] roger: so if I came by the house and grabbed a few tings on sat ad dropped by Johns place would that be ok?
[16:02] roger: i was also considering taking puppy to KnKs for the eve so she can play with Kelsey... I need to ask Kevin first if it's feasable
[16:04] mi: That should be fine.
[16:15] roger: checking with kevin... Their yard might be torn up
[16:22] roger: here ... I know this will make u laugh LMAO
[16:22] roger: http://damnyouautocorrect.com/16503/my-top-25-favorite-autocorrect-fails/
[16:29] mi: Thanks. I'll try and look at those later. They are usually great.
[16:30] mi: Gotta finish up a few things
[16:30] mi: Then it'll be time to get out of here
[16:30] mi: Let me know what Kevin says

Now I'm logged out of instant messenger.
He bailed on coming to John's birthday party tonight. Bailed on coming by to get his stuff. Asked if I wanted to meet him for dinner. Then took it back because he just got done in the attic. My sarcasm got away from me and I replied "gee, that sounds delicious".
His reply: Yeah it does... Do u want to go tomorrow? That will be easier since I'll be there.
Interesting how he can't stop talking to you...
Beats me! I wasn't sure whether she was just being a bitch, which she's quite capable of, or whether it was some kind of jealousy thing. Actually who cares! I told her earlier I'd been off work for four days with this cold and her response was "it must be nice to be able to take that much time off work" in other words, she's so overworked. I compare her responses to SDA Lady and it's like night and day. Tonight at 10:00pm I texted SDA Lady to tell her I was still in Pickering and she responded "That's OK, take ur time and enjoy your evening with your family" Uh, night and day.
oops, wrong thread! Love that edit button lol.
Yeah Kat, quite a trip mentally.

I never replied to his text. I'm torn between saying I'm busy and wondering if he wants to talk or whatever.

Guess I'll find out tomorrow.

WII, hi! smile
Let him work and pursue you, I probably wouldn't reply but you know him best. ((((Michelle)))))
I never did reply. He came over late this afternoon. Packed up a bunch of his stuff, helped me get the futon set back up as a couch in the office, then asked if I wanted to go to dinner. I really was on the fence. We ended up going to sushi, he bought (he better have lol).

So nice it kept giving me deja vu. Had to keep reminding myself it wasn't a date.

Got back to the house (I drove since his car was full of stuff) and he asked if I wanted to talk. Again, on the fence. We ended up talking for a couple hours. The short version, he wasn't happy, he's still not happy, he doesn't know what he needs to be happy. But it's not fair to me to have to deal with that. He admits maybe the ADs have something to do with it, but he's still not sure it's enough. He's worried I'm suddenly going to decide I want kids, and since he won't have kids that's not fair to me. He's worried that things would never get better. He's mad that he had to break up with me to have all these conversations. Yet when I called BS and said he could have brought any of this up over the last six months before it got to the point where he decided he needed out, he said yes, but I had brought these issues up three or four times. He misses the dog, he misses me, but he needs his alone time. He needs time to work on his own stuff. Maybe he'll go back to school, maybe he'll try a different AD. Maybe we could try again when we're both in different places.

Just trying to put it all on paper before I start to forget details.

I'm too tired to really sort through all of this. I'm gonna try and get some sleep. We'll see if I can get my brain to shut up.
Oh and the biggest trigger was hearing from his ex gf last summer. She's back with her bf, actually dumped Roger to get back with him. Apparently that really threw him for a loop. He e-mailed her back and asked her not to contact him again, she hasn't. But apparently that dredge up a lot of unresolved stuff. Was sort of the beginning of him questioning a lot of things about his life.
Wow, that's a lot Michelle. Sorry to hear this. I was surprised to see so many new pages on your thread, just caught up.

Quote:
The short version, he wasn't happy, he's still not happy, he doesn't know what he needs to be happy. But it's not fair to me to have to deal with that.


That says it all IMO. You know you can't do anything to help that, right? You're doing a decent job of letting him miss you, but need to do more. The dog stuff would drive me absolutely nuts.

As for the commitment issue, as a guy I can tell you there wasn't any from the start. As soon as the feelings were gone he knew he could peace out. Of course, the same is true in marriage realistically, but at least there's commitment there.

The most fascinating comments to me are about having kids (why did that come up?), and not loving you as much as you love him. That's obviously true, but why does he feel so bad about it? It almost seems like he knows it's time to get serious, or not. That friends with benefits just doesn't work past 3 years. Honestly, I think he's right.

So, what do YOU want?
He has had gfs in the past who said they were okay with not having kids and then bailed on him later with that as a justification. It happened to him multiple times, so it's definitely a sore subject for him.

I didn't want to get married again. It's just a piece of paper, doesn't keep someone around. I've gotten past the point of thinking the whole thing is ridiculous, but I certainly don't feel any pressure to get remarried.

How much more serious does it get than talking every day? Having dinner together every night? Spending every night together? Getting a dog together? Living together until he bought his house? Short of getting that piece of paper, I don't see that it wasn't serious.
Michelle,
You're right about the piece of paper. All of us, especially on this site, know that. Just because we had that piece of paper didn't mean my W fought for our marriage, was willing to go to counseling, or anything. I completely relate to your frustration on that.

Didn't mean to sound harsh, this is just what I'm seeing with him. It was a convenience thing for him, staying in as long as it felt good. And peacing out as soon as it didn't. Strange as it may seem, in his mind he's just being fair to you.
So, if I get what you are saying, you think he believes that relationships have a life cycle. That because he's never seen anyone maintain a happy long-term relationship he believes that all relationships must end and that it's only fair to make the break easy?
Yes, and really, they do. Those loving feelings may last a while, but commitment has to kick in somewhere. It doesn't sound like he has any. Times will get tough eventually, and it's really hit you guys. And the antidepressants mess with everything, especially libido. You've been amazingly committed. Really, you're treating this like a marriage and he isn't at all.

I'm so sorry Michelle. What I meant by "in his mind he's being fair" is he knows he doesn't feel the same way about you as you feel about him. And he may even feel guilty for that. But until he realizes that it's not all about feelings, and that through work they can come back like we learn here in DB, there's nothing you can do to change his mind. He's really being a big baby and it's ticking all of your DB friends off mad
He broke the silence this am. "Good luck on your run :-)"

I sent him back a picture of the dog all ready to go.

He sent "Cute! Is she all stoked 'n ready?"

"Of course"

Then he started asking about whether I wanted him to watch her tomorrow. I said yes. He asked what time. Said okay, then he was waiting to see if he was going to Napa for the night.

I didn't hear from him rest of the day. I finally texted him asking if he was hanging with puppy tomorrow. He asked if I could ahve someone else do it. Says he feels like crap. he's getting auras like he's gonna have a seizure. A few minutes later, he texts me to ask how the run went. I sent him a pic of sleeping puppy and our run time. He asked how she was doing, I told him she fell off the couch last night. She stretched backwards and fell right off. It was hysterical. He sent back "ROTFLMAO, wish I could seen that. Wasn't that time the same you got as last year?" Guess he's boed lol
*bored
To finish out the convo from Saturday:

I replied back "Little faster I think"
Roger "Cool. She pull u again?"
"She tried. What else is new?"
"Steve had a sailing thing then a date tonight" (so he didn't go to Napa this weekend) "As for me not much. You?"
"That was more of a rhetorical question referencing Kelsey's competitive streak. But I'm good. Excited for the wine and chocolate festival, had a great time at the movies today."
"Ah yeah. Too true. Lol" "What did you see?"
"One For the Money. Based on the Stephanie Plum novel by Janet Evanovich. It was hysterical. Anyways, got a lot planned for tomorrow, so I'm off to bed. Have a good night."
"Oh yeah. I read the first 4. Thought the name sounded familiar. Sleep well. If u get into a bind with pup I can watch her. I'm just not in top form...Nite."

Didn't talk to him at all yesterday. My friend Joanna watched Kelsey, that worked out well. The wine & chocolate festival was good. Bought a bunch of wine of course. Now I'm broke lol.
Boy, he still isn't letting go is he? He probably is asking himself why he is so unhappy without you. Let him keep missing you.

kat
I don't think he's asking himself why he is so unhappy without me. I think he always knew that was a lot of his own stuff. I think what he was always asking was why he wasn't happier with me.

I am so so so grateful this year that my best friend was born on Valentine's Day. Having someone to hang out with this weekend was great. I bought her a bottle of wine for her birthday. smile
Yeah, he's got to figure out why he can't make himself happy! ARGH!

That is great that your BF has a V-day birthday so you guys could have all that fun together.
So tonight it was comments on the videos of puppy dog I posted on Facebook. Since I wasn't logged into instant mesenger today, he texted me after work "That movie of puppy was hilarious."

"Which one? lol" (I had posted two)

"I didn't see the sheep one. Did she get a new sheep?"

"No, just finally getting stuff off my phone. Got a new 16GB microSD card."

"Cool" (No reason to reply to that)
Happy singles awareness day!
LOL! I wonder if we truly are more aware of the day then when we were married? I don't dread it in anyway. Christmas had been way harder with all this Hallmark commercial and the happy families with a Mom and Dad.

I have said since the divorce, so now it is the 5 of us and that always bothers ex but I really don't care, this is what he created. Even though my kids now that I am ready to date, I also am happy to show them that it is fine to be just you. Because if you can't be happy by yourself how on earth will you be happy with someone else?

Happy Friends that care about each others day!

kat
That was supposed to be know not now. stupid mods!!!!

kat
I'm not more aware of it. I just got used to having someone to spend it with again.
LOL!!! LOve it!
I was doing all right til I saw Roger on this online game we played. I was chit chatting with a couple of the girls and he was online. I guess it's nice to know he had nothing better to do on V-Day than putz on his computer, but then again neither did I. Not like I could leave the dog home alone, so I guess at least I had an excuse. But it made me so mad.
So she isn't crate trained? We have a pen for Cooper. I have his bathroom mat in there and he has room to play, sleep and do his business. It isn't total freedom but he is getting used to it.

Just think, you were chatting on line with friends but he was only playing a game.

hugs, kat
She is crate trained. But normally when I leave she goes in the backyard. Since Roger left though, she cries, scratches at the gate, tears up her toys, refuses to eat, and has started digging holes again.
I have stopped hiding treats around the yard as she won't go look for them. I started putting the radio in the yard with her. That helped for about a week, now she doesn't care anymore.
*sigh* My OTHER problem child, i.e. Roger, saw that I posted something on Facebook about being broke. (I had to make an extra student loan payment of $560 because of changes to my payment schedule, and I didn't have drill this month, so no mid-month paycheck from the Army). I have money in savings and groceries, so it's not that big a deal, just hate seeing the checking balance at $123 lol. Who does, right?

He sends me a message though, "I read your situation.. Sorry to hear you are tapped out. Do u need help? Let me know."

This coming from the person who still owes me $1100. *head desk*
"Yea, I needed you not to go into panic mode and man up and be my boyfriend and love our dog and remember me on valentines and pay me what you owe me and...and...you know the rest"

How was that for a reply? smile
Short, sweet, and to the point! Also, cathartic!
Although, I probably should go with something more along the lines of "can you tell me which days you'll be making payments to me so I can budget around those?" But the other one is so much more in tune with my frame of mind.
Who ever said we should always do what we are supposed to, never had fun in life! smile
True. Very true.

I just replied with "I transferred some money from savings. Thanks.

I would like to figure out the payments for the washer/dryer though so I can add those into my budget."
[16:34] roger: Hi
[16:45] mi: hey
[16:51] roger: Did i send u a payment?
[16:51] roger: If not i can send u 100 now
[16:52] mi: I didn't get anything. Were you going to send it ezpay?
[16:52] roger: Yeah
[16:52] roger: ezpay... since I know how speedy u are on deposits LOL
[16:52] mi: i don't know what you are talking about lol
[16:53] roger: :-B
[16:53] roger: lol right!
[16:53] roger: So anyway... Gimme a sec and I will send u one
[16:54] mi: okay. That'll bring it down to $1,000 even
[16:54] roger: Ok cool
[16:55] roger: I should get that check from my aunt soon and I will give u the entire sum
[16:55] mi: cool beans
[16:57] roger: I'm so broke... Looking for roommate is a beyatch
[16:58] mi: yeah I haven't even started
[16:59] roger: i am playing catchup with everything right now ... So you still need me to grab puppy Sun afternoon?
[17:00] mi: I got caught up, but then the wine I bought Sunday and the fact that I didn't get Army pay this month caught up to me
[17:00] mi: Yes, Carol and I will be gone Sunday/Monday
[17:01] roger: Yeah that will hurt not getting some pay
[17:01] roger: I got a good pay cuz i got lots of OT
[17:03] roger: It will be nice when i don't have to pay the IRS any more
[17:03] roger: My return will prolly go towards 2003
[17:04] roger: only 1k left
[17:04] mi: getting close
[17:07] mi: anyways, I've gotta get going. Army conference calls tonight
[17:07] mi: I don't get paid, but I still gotta work. lol
[17:08] roger: There u go. Sent
[17:09] mi: e-mail or phone?
[17:10] roger: phone
[17:10] mi: ok
[17:10] roger: would u prefer email?
[17:10] mi: phone is fine, thanks
[17:10] roger: kk np
[17:10] mi: just wanted to know where to look for it
[17:10] roger: Yup
[17:11] roger: sorry it's taking me so long.. I only have 9k left in my savings
[17:11] roger: frown
[17:11] roger: I'm starting to sweat
[17:11] mi: No worries. I don't mind stretching it out.
[17:12] roger: fortunately i did OT so that covered it fine
[17:12] mi: right
[17:14] mi: I wish I got OT sometimes
[17:17] roger: Yeah... eventually u will get better pay
[17:17] roger: The commute is a bitch .. adds about 150 / mo in gas
[17:18] roger: Unless u buy a bike and ride to n from station
[17:18] mi: Yeah, and gas prices are going up
[17:19] mi: But I got a conference call in 10, so I'm gonna run
He sent me the $100. Also got some travel reimbursement from work, I'll take the $65 with no complaints.
YEAH! Surprise money! Love that kind. smile
Posted this on facebook, "I finally compared my times for the LSNC Race for Justice. 2011 - 36:28. 2012 - 34:44.7 I blame Kelsey for the improvement."
Joanna - You should be thanking Kelsey for your improvement!!
Me - I will thank her once my blister is fully gone :-)
Joanna - But she gave you a PR!
Me - Don't let her hear that. It'll go to her head.
Roger - Congratz! Are u sure it wasn't the Guinness and the Cupcake she had tied to her neck to lure you? wink

*sigh* I am so not in a mood to deal with him
Then don't deal with him. UGH! Do you think de-friending him on FB would be too much? Is is hurting you to see his comments?
Sometimes, sometimes not. What really bugs me is the comments he posts to some of my friends. Like my friend Kerri, he hung out with her and her bf like twice and he comments on her stuff ALL the time.
So, I ended up saying something to him about how he comments on everything and invited himself along to one of my friend's activities: Don't you think it's mildly inappropriate to invite yourself along to my friend's activities after breaking up with me?

Roger: Are you speaking of the Fazzerati's dinner in Napa? if you are, Kerri said that she is ok with hanging out. If you aren't comfortable I will cancel.
She sorta asked me as well. I did tell her she had the choice to defriend me like your other friends since u and i are not together
So... It's your call. If u feel uncomfortable about it then i will defriend and not go

Michelle: Actually, the Disneyland one seemed far more inappropriate, although much more likely you were joking. The Fazzerati's thing is a fundraiser, not really Kerri's.
She sorta asked you what as well? And why would you put it on her to make the choice?

Roger: I was joking about the DL one. The Fazz was a fundraiser so yes any difference should be set aside and it gives me a reason to go to Napa since I won't be going for the next few weekends.
As for her staying a friend. I leave it up to them. If they want to stay friends that's their deal. If u like I will defriend all of your friends since it's making you uncomfortable.

Michelle: What makes me uncomfortable is the fact that you can act like nothing has changed.

Last night he sent this out to all my friends and family that he was friends with on Facebook:
Quote:
HI all,
Just a note to let u know that I am defriending all of Michelle's friends and family since we are no longer together. You are welcome to re-add me if you want but i leave that to you.
Great luck to all of you in your lives and adventures .
Cheers
Roger
He did this in a mass message which several people replied to, including my sister and dad.
Quote:
(sister) 6:23pm Feb 16
What about Kelsy?

Roger 9:21pm Feb 16
It's the natural order . Kelsey sees me every other weekend

(my dad) 9:49pm Feb 16
What a way to man-up and tell everybody., I am very disappointed, Roger.

Roger 10:57pm Feb 16
Well Michael, it is up to her to clear the air. First policy is truth. If that an issue, then it is your issue.

Tiffani (ex-SIL)4:11am Feb 17
I'm also really sad to hear that. I really enjoyed spending time with you and hope you all the best smile

(my dad) 7:27am Feb 17
Well, Roger , what is the truth from your perspective?
My friend Lisette forwarded the message string to me this morning.
Now I want to know what else your Dad said! lol
No clue. Seems like Roger hasn't replied. Lisette probably would tell me if he did.
Sent Roger a text Saturday mid-morning "Inviting yourself to Disneyland with my friend, joking or not, was mildly inappropriate. Sending a mass message to like 22 people on Facebook and turning it into a forum to justify your decision goes far beyond inappropriate" About 5 minutes later I just got back "good point" (hey, at least he agreed!)

Sent a text to my dad, basically saying I know you want to understand and help, but what you're doing is inappropriate and my dad started arguing with me. Then told me if I wanted to talk to him he wasn't texting me anymore and to call him. Then he turned his phone off so I couldn't have called him even if I'd wanted to (which I didn't). UGH! 63 my a$$. More like 3!

The rest of the mass Facebook messaging (not sure if anything is missing in the middle as I got this second-hand)
Quote:
Roger 11:47am Feb 17
Truth is honesty. I was honest with her, her friends and her family. As for why she and I are no longer together, that is for her to explain, Mike. Your disappointment in the situation or in me might be cleared up then. I hope the best for you in your new endeavors.

(my dad) 12:07pm Feb 17
Actually, Roger, you haven't been entirely honest. When if ever have you come to me and said, "I have a problem and would like some insights?"

Answer, "Never".

Lisette 12:44pm Feb 17
Roger - I don’t think it was necessary to de-friend us all this way and send a mass message for all to see. I know breakups are exceptionally hard, and there is need for space on both parties to heal. I know Michelle needs some space to heal, but I don’t think she’d want you to cut us all out completely, even if she needs some distance for now.


(my dad) 5:27pm Feb 17
Now that I have had a bit more time, I want you to consider the following, Roger:

First, Michelle loves you (I haven't heard otherwise)

Secondly, everyone in the family likes you and wants you to be a part of our family.

3rdly, Not a one of us is perfect and neither are you. We accept all of your imperfections, and STILL want you in our family.

If you think you are gonna get a better deal or offer than that in this frakked-up world, take it move on. OTHERWISE, get your ass back over to Michelle's: beg, crawl, do whatever it takes to work things out!!!

(my dad) 5:29pm Feb 17
The key to a good marriage is not to make yourself happy, but to brighten your mate's day, and make them happy.

Roger 6:13pm Feb 17
Thanks for your input Michael and Lisette. I understand my way of handling this is pretty cold. I have my reasons for it.

As for her. You are correct in saying she is the best out there and that She needs space to heal n such. As for me, this is my way of giving her space. By eliminating any factors that may cause more discomfort than is already taking place.

Like I said, if you want to continue to be friends you are more than welcome to drop me a line.

Michael, the reasons of our separation are not to be discussed in this blog. That is inappropriate. I respect her privacy. Granted everyone thinks this mass email is a breach of privacy. Everyone has a right to know why i am removing them from my page. That is all. I will speak no further on this matter. Thank you for you input.


I didn't talk to Roger til Sunday afternoon. He came by to pick up puppy so I could go to the hot springs, so it was mostly arrangements. He also told me my massage therapist was going to the same hot springs later. I never saw him as I was already gone by the time he got her. He tried to text me while I was at the hot springs, but I had no reception.

Got back late Monday. Went home and got unpacked, did some laundry, got ready for work. He kept puppy til after work last night. I went to the gym then went to get her. He is miserably sick *snicker* *cough*karma*cough*

Puppy was soooo happy to see him and didn't whine, scratch, or cry when I left her in the yard to go to work this am. Was a nice reprieve.
Quote:
[12:20] roger: Well did doggie settle down when she got home?
[12:26] mi: she did
[12:26] mi: and she didn't whine or scratch at the gate when i left this am
[12:26] mi: it was really nice
[12:28] mi: you feeling any better?
[13:36] System Message: roger is offline
Okay then *shaking head*
Ok then. Well........that's short and sweet.
I agree with you about telling your dad it was inappropriate to discussing your situation on such an open forum (he sounds a lot like my dad.)I'm sure he feels like he is protecting you but it should be offline and not open to all. Of course Roger instigated it with his mass message which personally I think was very childish in the first place. Sounds like something a kid in Junior High School would do.

You are, on the other hand, the only mature adult in the room. Keep busy - this too shall pass.

Best,
BA
Originally Posted By: BeginningAgain
You are, on the other hand, the only mature adult in the room. Keep busy - this too shall pass.


Yup. Man I hate Facebook sometimes, giving it up for Lent actually.
Saw these when I got to work and logged into IM this am:
Quote:
[18:03] roger: Cool. Glad to hear it. Sounds like she's resigned to your home as "home".
[18:03] roger: I still feel like [censored]. but oh well
Can I say it? Who cares at this point?

I know this is hard for you hon, but just reading some of his comments, he is coming off badly. Do you really want to fix this?

kat
Kat has a very good point. In the last few weeks he has shown what I fear are his true colors. Is that how you want to spend your life?
I rather doubt someone having EMDR, on anti-depressants, and on anti-seizure meds is really a good representation of themselves at this moment in time.
Well, I hope not. I watched someone undergoing EMDR completely change their personality from someone who was nervous to someone who was angry and combative. It scares me a little.
Doesn't seem like an easy process. But supposed to be very helpful. We shall see I suppose.

Friday night he was texting me with suggestions for puppy dog. And he asked whether I wanted any wine from his friend in Napa. I am no fool, I said yes! grin

Today he is IMing me about me dropping her off on Thursday before I leave for drill on Friday.
I sincerely hope he is able to benefit from EMDR. From what I've seen it can go either way. Of course, that's the same result as any kind therapy so.....grin

Of course you wouldn't turn down wine! That would be just plain crazy! LOL
Agreed with Mishka on the EMDR--my H's therapist warned him beforehand that he could be transformed in positive ways, but it was equally possible that there could be lasting negative changes. He was quite scared that agreeing to do it might spell the end of our R.

Enjoy your wine!
Hmm. If Roger's therapist told him that, he certainly didn't share it with me. She seems to have been very positive and encouraging on the EMDR.
H's therapist was also quite positive about trying the EMDR, because H wasn't really making progress and the T wanted to get him unstuck. Also, EMDR is great for making rapid changes in overcoming "bad wiring" in the brain that results from traumatic events in childhood. It's just that there's no predicting who that "new," rewired person will be.
Well, that is exactly what he is trying to do. So, sounds like a good fit. Roger has definitely been stuck in his "regular" therapy.

And no worries on the wine. It will be very enjoyable! Even though I probably won't get this batch for a couple weeks, I have plenty to tide me over!
I totally agree EMDR sounds like a good fit--he needs to let go of the past and grow up before he'll be fit to commit in any relationship, so whether this therapy works for him or not, at least he needs to give it a chance. And because it's about rapidly changing neural pathways, rather than about slogging slowly through all the painful past, it offers the possibility of fairly quick relief and change.
Thanks for the insights Cyrena. smile

So Tuesday afternoon Roger is IMing me about the dog. Then he gets quiet for like an hour, then comes back to say that his temp contract position is converting to a permanent contract where his full-time permanent employer will be the IT temp company. This is good for him as it means he doesn't have to take six months off between contracts or try and find another contract to cover that six month gap and he'll have benefits like a real employee. But all I could think is, why are you telling me this? Am I supposed to be excited and validate you? Really? You dumped me!

So I didn't respond.

After I got home that night, Roger called me to ask if I could dog-sit for the people we got Kelsey from. This is fine. He then brought up the work thing a second time. I said that's nice (basically), then that I had to get off the phone to call the pet sitter and cancel Kelsey's play day. *sigh*
I really sounds like he desperately wants to stay connected to you in some way and the puppy is the perfect opportunity to do so. I guess you should look at it like parents with kids. They have a tenuous thread that holds them together, in some ways, through their kids. That can lead to more communication and working your way back toward each other. It could just be a thread and nothing more but if you want to put your R back together, I guess you may need to put up with it like this for a while.

Keep doing what you are doing though! Don't let him prattle on and on, make sure you continue all your activities (I don't see that ever being a problem for you!), and be kind to him without being too involved. Draw him back toward you slowly. See where the therapy takes him.

Did his C give him any idea of how long they expect to be doing this? I've heard most EMDR doesn't continue past 6 months. What have you heard?
Yeah, it is pretty much exactly like having a kid.

As for his EMDR, I don't know. I understood it was supposed to be just a few months, but whether that means 3 or 6 I don't know. The biggest problem is that he was only seeing her every other week when he started EMDR and right now he's only seeing her once a month, so they aren't doing EMDR. She's been bugging him to get in more frequently so they can go back to EMDR. She wants him in every week for EMDR, I guess because of what Cyrena said about it being fast neural pathway changes.

He has a list of excuses for why he can't, money, too much time off work, etc. I think part of it is that he wants to do it, but he knows it's not going to be fun, so he's dragging his feet. He's more comfortable with the talk therapy, he likes the insights, but of course as we all know, insight is awesome, but it doesn't lead to change necessarily.
Roger has Kelsey thru the weekend. I have a 3-day drill, so I dropped her off this morning. It kinda [censored] that I wear my uniform to work since I can't dress up or even choose what to wear. I did put on some perfume and make-up though. Tried to drop her off, get her settled, and bail. He was filling me in on his plans to take her up to Tahoe for Snowfest this weekend, and wanted to talk again about his work thing. He applied to be the manager of the contract group. So we ended up leaving for work at the same time. No hugs or anything.
Yeah, that bites. Make-up and perfume are a nice addition though.

He feels a need to communicate to you what is going on. That's a nice connection to keep. Again, only as long as it isn't hurting you. If it keeps you stuck and unhappy then you are going to have to put a stop to it.
Hey Michelle!
I've been following along, just checking in.
Long, exhausting drill weekend. I didn't hear from Roger at all Friday and Saturday, but he called me twice on Sunday. First time it went to VM. I literally don't remember going to bed Sunday night, but I was in my bed in my robe, so I must have walked there at some point. Lights in the living room, computer and TV still on. Was very disconcerting. I do vaguely remember talking to Roger. He called me to talk about how she did this weekend and ask how my weekend was. I told him one of the funny stories from the weekend and then got off the phone as I was exhausted.

Picked up Kelsey from Roger's house Monday after work. I got there before him, so I was already gone when he got home. He called me to ask if I found all her stuff and confirm that I didn't see any damage to the yard (one small hole which he had also noticed). I couldn't find her gentle leader (it is like a horse bridle, it goes on her head and the leash clips under her chin). He said it was still in his car, but if I needed it he could leave it by the front door and I could come get it today. I told him it could wait til later this week and got off the phone.
You had to be one tired puppy to not remember going to bed! YIKE!

How did Roger sound during these convos? At ease or stressed? Take the temperature and see what you feel.

Has he mentioned any further therapy?
I didn't get enough sleep any night since Thursday, but I was up til 1 am Saturday night writing a counseling statement for one of my LTs and signing off on promotion packets. I slept through breakfast, but still wanted to kill someone when my alarm went off at 0545.

I didn't leave the armory Sunday until 6 pm. It was a really really long weekend.

Roger sounded pretty good. At ease I think. Chatty. It's weird that he's switched from texting or IMing me to calling me more.
No mention of anything about his therapy or when his appointments are. I didn't ask.
I have been dwelling on the idea of writing Roger a letter. Thinking about it for a couple weeks now, keep coming back to it.

The draft I started has been sitting in my e-mail and looks like this at present:

Roger,

When you first told me that I had treated you better than you had treated me, my initial reaction was to say "no". I have a really hard time thinking of negative things about our relationship. On the surface it seemed like you were a great partner, helpful, compassionate, loving, supportive. There are so many things I admired about you, I loved your sense of humor, and I think you have the most amazing smile and eyes in the world.

But a lot of things have come up in the last month and a half which have forced me to consider the fact that you may be right. I deserve a partner who is committed to me. I deserve a partner who will talk to me about issues instead of expecting me to know that I am supposed to raise an issue that I don't know you want to talk about again. I deserve a partner who will not walk out without fighting for us, even if that means fighting with me.

I wrote the following relationship rules when Neal and I were in the midst of our separation. You and I have been so compatible in almost everything that I think I assumed we were operating off the same relationship rules. But in retrospect, I think that was not true. But I will share them with you to hopefully clarify to you why I am so hurt and disappointed with how things have ended.

1. If one person thinks there is a problem, there is a problem.
2. The person who sees the problem has the responsibility to start the discussion and keep it going as long as necessary because neither person in this relationship is likely to be a mind reader.
3. Sometimes it takes repeating yourself before the other person sees how serious the issue is or finally understands how to address the issue.
4. Ask for what you want, suggest solutions, and be specific enough that something can come of the conversation besides just venting.
5. If talking doesn't work, try something else. Actions often speak louder than words. But above all, try something. Then try something else.
6. If you feel a problem hasn't been resolved, ask to do something different (counseling, romantic getaway, etc.) BEFORE you get so frustrated you give up on the relationship. Because...
7. Things are disposable. People are not.
8. Resentment kills desire, don't sweep things under the rug if you aren't sure you can live with them.
9. Hopelessness is the cancer in long-term relationships.
10. Choose your battles wisely, but anything worth breaking up over is worth fighting over first and often.

In our case, I would also add that we should have explored and considered the side effects of your medications and EMDR and how they were interacting with each other before making any major life changes. It seems that it would be fair to say you are not in a good place right now despite the great things you have going in your life such as buying a house, Kelsey, having a full-time job through Kelly IT.

I also admit there were issues I should have raised with you. I am sorry I didn't do so earlier, and at this point it is rather superfluous, but briefly, I was not happy that our date nights, vacations, and other couples time was shelved because of the stress and financial strain of you buying a house. Those types of activities are essential to keeping a relationship thriving in my opinion. I was not happy with the Cymbalta and EMDR because of the side effects on our sex life, which was compounded by a lack of dedicated couples time. I was disappointed and very hurt with your lack of response to my consciously acting on your requests to buy and wear more lingerie and initiate sex more often. I was also concerned about the amount of alcohol you were drinking as you are not supposed to drink at all with both your anti-seizure meds and anti-depressants. I spent a good portion of November and December thinking about what I wanted to say and trying to find a good time to sit down and have these conversations when we wouldn't be interrupted and you weren't already in a bad mood. As I never found a time when one of those conditions was satisfied, let alone both, I put off having that conversation.

And now there is no point. You made up your mind unilaterally. You have said and done things that cannot be unsaid nor undone. I don't understand even after the conversations we have had, and I don't think I ever will. When it all is boiled down to the basics, we agree on many of the things that needed work in our relationship. But there is a fundamental disagreement over whether the effort should be put in to fix them. I believed we were worth the effort, and I know I am worth the effort. But if you can't see that, then there is nothing more to say. I need time and space to heal. We cannot be "just friends" after 3 years of love, sex, and intimacy. I will not settle.
Well said.

Are you meaning for it to be a 'closure' letter? If so, then its perfect. If not, then its going to need some work if you were hoping to open a dialog.
I think I am going for mostly a closure letter from a strategy perspective if nothing else. Want to keep it a TINY bit open, but only the teensiest tiniest bit.

Trying to convince him to work on things now will backfire, I'm about 99% sure, as he is very stubborn. So it was not necessarily intended to open a dialogue. More to lay some stuff out there and set some boundaries. If it scares him into some doubts and second thoughts, all the better. But any desire he has to work on things is going to be followed by my question, so when is the counseling scheduled for? I'm not messing around at this point LOL.
Good. My vote is send it.
Send it. I really like the rules you made for yourself. They are going to continue to help you for a long time.

Hugs, kat
Thanks girls. smile
We still haven't gone more than 2 1/2 days without talking. Donn't know what I think about that.

[12:16] roger: Hey there
[12:17] roger: I wanted to ask how puppy is doing. She's been on my mind lately.
[12:18] roger: You're prolly busy. and here comes boss. ttyl
[12:56] mi: Puppy is doing all right
[12:56] mi: her separation anxiety still isn't as good as it was
[12:57] mi: but she's doing okay
[15:32] roger: How's her new school?
[15:39] mi: school?
[15:43] roger: new doggie daycare
[15:46] mi: She likes the owner's dog Bandit
[15:47] mi: but she and the Tues/Thurs regular, Lonnie, are not hitting it off
[15:47] mi: so I might need to figure something else out for gym days
[15:49] roger: just bring her to my house then.
[15:49] roger: It's fine
[15:50] roger: We can keep her in the back with the garage open
[15:50] roger: I have a box with her name on it
[15:51] roger: That's while it's raining... then when it's sunny i leave the slider open. ... However they are going to start building in the back behind my neighbor
[15:51] roger: so the garage may be best
[15:51] mi: Yeah, guess it's supposed to rain tomorrow
[15:52] roger: I'll have a chat with my neighbor
[15:55] mi: well Kelsey can't go to the pet sitter tomorrow, she is full up. So I guess I will bring her to your house.
[15:58] roger: Yeah so it's cool I can open the garage and keep her in there
[15:59] roger: and just leave the door open so we don't have to go and let her out at lunch
[15:59] mi: okay, thanks
[16:01] roger: Tues thurs u can drop her at my house. Save you some time and money
[16:01] roger: Oh speaking of I have your money. (That would be the $1,000 he owes me! WOOT!)
[16:01] roger: I am picking up wine this weekend so i will give u the cash with the wine
[16:02] mi: Cool
[16:16] mi: I will probably take you up on Tuesday as well to drop Kelsey by
[16:17] mi: By next month Alina will probably be moving in with Rambo, so that will make things easier having another dog and human at the house. (Forget if I mentioned, but I offered up the spare room to a friend and her jack russell terrier)
Michelle, if you think he cares about you because of the dog you may be mistaken. More likely he cares about the dog but not you. What do you think? Wonder
I think he talks about the dog because it is easier for him to talk about. Michelle have you ever offered for him to keep Kelsey and you will visit? Then you can see if the conversations decrease or not.

kat
He insists that she will be better at my house as we were living together there when we adopted her and that is, according to him, her home. He also insists that she bonds better with women and she'd miss me more than she misses him.

When he has her he often texts me updates or pictures.

Dropped her off there today, was pretty much a waste of driving time. Takes me an extra 10 minutes to get to his house, and he didn't walk her before he left for work. He asked me to go check on her at lunch, so I drove back over and walked her at lunch. And now he's saying he might work overtime, so I might pick her up before he even gets home. Added 45 minutes of driving to my day and I'm still doing 100% of the work!
Well....he asked...when I was all pissed off.....

[13:54] roger: How's puppy doing?
[13:57] mi: This whole thing is a total waste if you don't have something planned for her
[13:57] mi: Or aren't at least going to help me out with walking/feeding or something
[13:58] mi: I added all this extra driving and time to my day
[13:58] mi: just to have her cry at me when I left to go back to work
[14:01] roger: OK. Sorry, I thought it would help a little bit but apparently not. I did tell u that I was busy today. and I've been swamped.
[14:03] mi: Yes, you did. But I told you in advance that she hadn't been walked this morning.
[14:04] roger: I konw but by the time u got there I aas already late
[14:04] roger: I will walk her when i get home
[14:05] mi: It's true we were later than I wanted to be, Kelsey is not liking daylight savings time. But it doesn't actually take any of the stress, financial strain, or responsibility off of me if Kelsey doesn't even get to spend any time with you.
[14:08] roger: Yeah well... If it's too much for you and u need some help I need more advance notice or at least drop her by on the days u need me to watch her.
[14:08] roger: I don't mind watching her and spending time with her
[14:08] mi: You were the one who offered to have me bring her by today, I can't give you more advance notice than that lol
[14:09] roger: I told you the circumstances.
[14:09] roger: I told u last night that if u do bring her I can't see her for lunch
[14:10] roger: at least I thought I said that to you
[14:10] roger: if not I apologize
[14:10] mi: Yes, you did. And I don't mind letting her out at lunch. But I didn't realize I would be walking her at lunch to make up for her missed walk this am, and possibly beating you to your house to pick her up, so I'd have to walk her after the gym as well
[14:11] roger: I will keep her overnight
[14:11] roger: don't worry about it
[14:11] roger: Go to the gym and leave her there
[14:11] roger: I will be home by 6
[14:12] roger: I will walk her
[14:12] roger: and take care of her tonight
[14:12] roger: Leave her for 2 days if u want
[14:12] roger: I am leaving for Napa on Sat Eve
[14:13] mi: I will think about it
[14:13] roger: Also if u need help with vet bills or anything let me know
[14:13] mi: thank you for the offer
[14:13] roger: all u have to do is ask
[14:14] mi: that reminds me her heartworm refill needs to be ordered
[14:14] roger: do me a favor.. If u know what brand it is send me the link and i will order it
[14:15] mi: prescription is on-file with the vet, have to call them
[14:15] roger: How much is it usually?
[14:15] roger: do u remember?
[14:16] roger: ballpark?
[14:16] mi: her total visit in October was like $134, that included shots and heartworm.
[14:16] mi: 6 mo supply
[14:16] mi: so I'm sure the heartworm was a small part of that
[14:16] roger: OK do u want cash or wine?
[14:16] mi: hah
[14:17] mi: do you think I'd ever turn down wine?
[14:17] roger: NOPE laugh
[14:17] mi: smart man (mostly not sarcastic since he's right about the wine)
[14:18] roger: My mama didn't raise no idiot :P
[14:18] roger: contrary to popular belief
[14:19] mi: you play your part so well
[14:20] roger: which one? the village idiot? lol
[14:21] mi: every village needs an idiot. just wouldn't be the same without one
[14:22] roger: it's easier to play dumb. Most people leave u be
[14:28] roger: Glad u think so highly of me :P
[14:28] roger: lol
[14:29] mi: sometimes not playing dumb is just as off-putting
[14:29] mi: and can you really blame me at this point? (really, why did he give me this opening? I'm so not in a mood to play nice for his self-esteem!)
[14:35] roger: I think my problem is I don't give a [censored] which leaves me with very few friends
[14:36] mi: There's an important distinction between not caring what the stupid masses think
[14:36] roger: And that's the part of Me which I call the "playing dumb"
[14:36] roger: True.
[14:36] roger: I do care about some things.
[14:36] mi: and sharing your likes and opinions and respecting your friends opinions
[14:39] mi: I think having good friends is more important than having a lot of friends
[14:39] roger: likewise\
[14:40] mi: But people aren't disposable. And you don't just cut them out of your life.
[14:40] mi: Or just treat them like crap til they leave.
[14:42] roger: Sure u can . People do it all the time
[14:42] mi: That doesn't make it right
[14:43] roger: True but right and possible are two different things
[14:46] mi: True, but why would you ever expect that of someone?
[14:47] roger: Expect them to just disappear? I don't expect them to go away. I usually push people out of my life that don't make me happy or are causing me grief
[14:48] mi: Yeah, grand solution there
[15:04] roger: It's easier to delete people than u think.
[15:05] roger: I wish i wasn't so sensitive. I could get a job as a hitman. Good money and it would force me to work out lol
[15:07] mi: I guess there's always a silver lining
[15:09] mi: As for my point, I guess it was that I see you as being very good at brushing things under the rug until your resentment boils over and you blow up at people, or at least give up on them
[15:14] roger: Yep
[15:15] roger: It is a trait that comes with hating life. If you don't like life, it's easy to push others away.
[15:17] roger: As why i felt it was best for me to leave. You don't need to be with a miserable person again. Yuo can find someone who likes life like u do and will be better for you. I am sure of that. ... Sorry
[15:17] roger: As for myself I am going back into EMDR
[15:18] roger: and we are doiing it weekly starting next month.
[15:18] mi: yeah, well, I'm sorry, but it's not your job to decide what's fair for me
[15:18] mi: and I hope the EMDR helps
[15:18] roger: Well I wasn't happy so I did what was best for me
[15:18] roger: I don't know if I will ever be happy but only time will tell
[15:20] roger: Call it a guilt trip instilled by me.
[15:20] roger: I had to take care of my sick mom when i was young.
[15:20] roger: I resented that.
[15:21] roger: I don't want anyone to take care of me because It makes me feel guilty
[15:21] roger: I need to get over my illness before I can be comfortable with being with someone
[15:21] mi: yeah, because you're so sickly and require so much looking after (note the sarcasm)
[15:22] roger: well sleep walking and my seizure at my sisters isn't making me feel good
[15:23] roger: the seizures are getting worse and now i have to go back to docs to get totally checked out. (this is new since we broke up)
[15:23] roger: waiting for the insureance
[15:23] mi: supporting and taking care of are two different things. but you push away anyone who tries to do either
[15:24] mi: I really couldn't imagine why you were single
[15:24] mi: guess now my eyes have been opened
[15:25] mi: you have the most ridiculous expectations of yourself and your relationships
[15:27] roger: Yeah well ... coming from a girl whose family has been together since the beginning and has had ongong love and support mother and father ... I have to take that with a large grain of salt
[15:28] mi: yeah, that's what family and friends are for. and significant others are supposed to be the family you choose for yourself
[15:28] mi: everyone is going to be sick or hurt at some point in their life
[15:28] roger: Well as u so well know i have had such great role models
[15:29] mi: and I expect my family and friends to help me out when things suck.
[15:29] roger: Right... Well I don't want to put my burden on Anyone
[15:29] roger: I don't
[15:29] roger: I expect them to disappear like mine do
[15:29] mi: just cuz you've had shitty role models doesn't mean you have to repeat the pattern
[15:29] roger: The only one that's been there for me is Steve
[15:30] roger: No it doesn't
[15:30] roger: I'm not saying what I do is Right
[15:30] roger: I'm just saying why i do it.
[15:30] roger: Cuz I feel like [censored] any other way
[15:30] roger: it's my natural instinct
[15:31] roger: close down to survive
[15:31] roger: I am working on it but it's a lifetime of [censored] that I have been digging up
[15:31] mi: yeah, I know you are
[15:34] roger: It is quite difficult to reprogram the mind after a lifetime of training/programming
[15:36] roger: As for you. I am not trying to delete u.
[15:36] roger: As for your friends. They are your friends. Not mine.
[15:38] mi: no, if anything you act like I'm supposed to just be able to switch to being "just friends" like flipping a light switch
[15:38] roger: I am sorry if it seems that way. I don't "expect" it
[15:39] roger: I am only trying to be friends since I don't want u to think I am totally abandoning u and the dog
[15:40] roger: I am here. if u need
[15:40] roger: anyway i really need to focus on work. I'm really far behind today
[15:41] roger: You are welcome to leave the dog at my house tonight
[15:41] mi: yeah I will
OMG - his perspective on life and people are exactly like my ex-wife's! I kept thinking for years she would change and she never did. I kept trying to show her how good life could be, how nice people could be, how great we could be and she never ever really accepted that. I'm sorry you are going through this Michelle.

BA
I just keep wondering why he can't stop talking to you if he is sooo over it...

kat
Exactly.

It seems to me that even though he loves the puppy, he doesn't like the idea of the day to day care of her so much. He offers to keep her but knows he can't actually do what needs to be done so you are stuck doing it and miles from home which just adds to your responsibilities and stress.

It's almost worse than child custody!!!! smile

If he won't carve out chunks of time to have her, then maybe he doesn't need to. She will adjust just like kids do. If he thinks she likes you better, than maybe she does!

Go dark, take care of the dog by yourself, and cut communications since it's all about the dog anyway at this time.

Hopefully the weekly EMDR will help him deal with more of his stuff and he will overcome his lifetime coping mechanisms that are so self-destructive.

This has to be beyond painful. In some ways it must feel like another D since you were together so long. I'm so sorry. frown This stinks!
I guess proof positive that insight leads to insight, but not necessarily change.

I definitely hope that the EMDR helps too. Time shall tell.

The problem with puppy is there are times I can't keep her. This is why I never would have gotten a dog as a single mom. Drill weekends are sometimes manageable, but often I need someone to watch her. The pet sitter would end up costing me $90 for the weekend, and a kennel would run me closer to $150. But for those dates, I normally give him a ton of advance notice. Months usually since those dates don't change. That's worked fine so far.

He kept her last night and has her today. I haven't talked to him yet today, so no clue if he'll ask me to go check on her at lunch, but I'm sure he walked her this am, so she'll be fine.

When I got home last night, I had a package. It was the wool knit sweater I had ordered with the gift card he got me for Christmas. I sent him a text saying thank you to be polite, he texted me back saying you are very welcome. Haven't talked to him other than that.

Yeah, definitely feels a lot like a D. In some ways worse because he didn't cheat on me, so I am not as angry/hurt and I still see glimpses of the guy I was with for so long.
Well, he doesn't seem to be holding a grudge for the argument yesterday....If anything, he's being super nice...

[10:17] roger: Hey
[10:17] roger: Do you want me to go home and play with pup over lunch?
[10:19] mi: It's up to you. If you are busy I can go over.
[10:19] mi: I was in before 8 this am
[10:20] roger: Oh ok... She got 2 walks yesterday and one this morning. Unfortunately she didn't poop so Someone will need to let her out for a bit smile
[10:22] roger: How's your workload today?
[10:30] roger: We finished everything at once so I can go over there if u want to chill for lunch
[10:32] mi: I just got a couple more projects actually
[10:32] mi: Catherine is delegating some stuff cuz her stress level has hit nuclear lol
[10:33] roger: LOL
[10:33] roger: sounds like our team Mon-Wed
[10:34] mi: everyone is going straight to her at work now that [boss] is gone
[10:34] mi: and she just got the books for her master's program
[10:34] mi: so yeah......
[10:34] roger: Wow holy crap
[10:43] roger: well i hear the mgr position for my team is between Hasija and I. Sounds like the grp mgr isn't confident in his team.
[10:43] mi: nice to be on the short list

I feel like that was a pretty intense conversation and that I was kind of hard on him, was kind of expecting him to be holding a grudge today. Huh.
Well, I'll pick up puppy dog after work today. My happy hour plans fell through. But I'll be picking her up in style at least since all I brought with me to work besides my uniform was nice jeans, heels, and a blouse and sweater lol.
Didn't see Roger Friday, he was still at work by the time I got puppy and left. But he called me Sunday on his way back from Napa to tell me he had the wine from Steve YAY! smile

Then he wanted a favor. He had carpooled out to Napa with a friend who is a real estate agent, several showings had come up unexpectedly, and he wanted to know if I could drive him home if he was dropped at my house. I needed to go out to get gas and run some errands anyways, so I said yes, for a bottle of wine. grin Then I spent the intervening time frantically cleaning house and changing out of the mud and dog hair covered clothes I was in and putting on some makeup LOL.

Not only did he throw in a couple bottles of wine, he also gave me the rest of the money he owed me. Super nice to have that! More than makes up for the fact that I bought an Adirondack chair and rocker for my back porch LOL.

Ended up getting a late lunch on the way down to his house and eating there since puppy dog came along for the ride. Bunch of chit chat, he also was telling me he's starting EMDR again on the 29th. Once a week for about two months. Talked a bit more, then said I should get going. He walked me and puppy out and gave me a hug, then left to go run my errands. Got gas and went to Target, then had a lazy evening with puppy by the fire.
That sounds like good interaction. So, since he's starting intensive EMDR on 29MAR for 2 months maybe keep the chit chat going and see where his head is at in 2 months. Don't do it if it hurts you though!!!!
Yeah, definitely not expecting anything to change between now and when he finishes EMDR. Since it's not fair for me to have to deal with him according to him LMAO. Dim until then I guess.
I hope his therapy goes well. Keep yourself busy and moving forward. Have you thought how much time you are allowing for things to improve between you? What if he still doesn't want to give it another try, are you going to accept that or keep trying to get him to fight for your relationship?

big hugs, kat
I haven't really put a time frame on it. Sometimes I'm two months seems like forever lol.

I am just trying to keep busy right now. Had a girlfriend over for dinner last night, tonight and Thursday are gym nights with my co-worker Jessica.

Roger will have Kelsey overnight tomorrow to play with her old foster sister Zoe, so maybe I'll go dancing or some such tomorrow night.
*Sometimes two months
Hey Michelle,

Just checking in to see how things are going with you? Is Roger still maintaining constant contact or has that begun to taper off? Or maybe he has come to his senses and is attempting to reconcile.

BA
Roger is still maintaining contact. It is still mostly about the dog, but he still slips in bits about what is going on with him.

Last Thursday I went to pick up the dog and ended up staying and having a beer with him. I got there ahead of a wicked thunderstorm and he was concerned that it looked like a funnel cloud could form (we didn't have the radio on, but I found out from my coworker that they did issue tornado warnings on her drive home from work). He offered me a beer and said I should hang out til there was a break in the storm. We chit chatted a bit and he was telling me about his EMDR (he had just gotten home from a session). Apparently his therapist is focusing on positive thinking during about 3/4 of the EMDR sessions, but he had done some hard work that day related to being the one to discover his mom after his stroke. He said that for the first time he felt sorry for that little boy.

There's been some interesting interaction about my upcoming vacation too. I got a e-mail about deals to Maui and cleared it with my boss, so I am taking a week off next month and going to Maui for 5 days! Plane ticket was only $358!!!! I told Roger about it because I wanted to know if he could watch the dog. Roger told me that if I packed him in my luggage, he would be my private masseuse for the trip lol. He mentioned he has been trying to plan a vacation, but has had no luck as prices have been too high and how this sounded like such a great deal. But then made a point of saying he wouldn't go at the same time because he wouldn't want to ruin my vacation. I thought that was a rather odd statement, and told him that would be a first. He asked if it would be weird, and I said yeah, it would. So he said yeah, he would watch the dog. He definitely is jealous though lol.
Woo hoo - vacation to Maui!!! I am definitely jealous. I lived on Oahu for about 3 years, by Maui by far was my favorite Hawaiian Island. It has a little bit of everything - nightlife and out of the way hidden beaches. Enjoy it and make sure he knows how much you did! smile

BA
[09:57] roger: lucky lil wanker
[09:57] roger: going to maui
[09:57] roger: u suck!
[09:57] mi: so you keep saying lol
[09:58] roger: Yup... I like to reaffirm your positive traits
[09:58] roger: ... errrr negative traits
[09:58] roger: when I'm jealous
[09:59] mi: har har
[09:59] roger: that could be misconstrued as a conflict of interest
[09:59] mi: guess I'll have to work on that
[10:00] roger: if you are good at something ... could it be a positive and a negative?
[10:00] roger: lol
[10:00] mi: usually
[10:00] mi: all depends on the perspective lol
[10:01] roger: yeah... well my barometer is all effed up cuz I'm on 3 hrs of sleep and need a vacation and a blowjob LOL
[10:02] mi: lol too bad you don't always get what you want
[10:59] roger: LOL yeah oh well...
[11:00] roger: did u read about this?
[11:00] roger: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/trending-now...-172446596.html
[11:06] mi: If I got everything I wanted I wouldn't be just visiting Maui lol
[11:06] mi: and I'd have you for a personal masseuse year round lol
[11:06] mi: that's a sweet video
[11:10] roger: LOL. Yeah it is.
Quite the banter still going on. That could be taken as a positive. Hopefully he'll come out the other side of this EMDR with a new outlook. Fingers crossed!

That story about the lab staying with his friend was so unreal!!! What a sweet doggie.
Yeah, that's newer and sporadic. Definitely seems like a positive. And maybe that the EMDR seems to be helping?

Yes, quite an amazing story. I'm glad he shared it with me. Such a cute dog too! I'm sure it'll be adopted quickly.
Oh and XH and the new girl got married last weekend.

I almost feel bad for her. I really hope he's grown up, but I have no reason to believe he has learned from his mistakes. I know they plan to have kids soon, so I really hope he's better to her.
Oh holy cow. He really did it. I hope to heavens he has grown up too.
Yeah. They've been together since last January, so less than a year and a half. He really went full steam ahead with this whole thing. Crazy!

So far, I don't have a ton planned for this weekend. Thank goodness. I think I need a day or two to recover! Moving ahead with refinancing my house, looks like I'll drop my interest rate from 5.25% to 3.75%! Also need to restack firewood and get a couple things cleaned up. Ironically, all my projects just took on more importance since I'm going to have an assessor at the house in the next couple weeks lol. Guess I'd better get the lawn mowed!
LOL! Get on it girl!!! WOW! 1.5% drop? Incredible!
Lol. Yeah, it's very exciting. Best part? -0.3 points, so I won't have to put anything into it to fund the refi! It will drop my mortgage by about $150 a month. Which means I can keep paying the same amount, and put it towards more principal or, on tight months, I can use the money for other stuff. smile

I'm not so excited about mowing the lawn. But at least my trees and flowers are looking good! For the assessment, I think any drop in home values (I bought at a pretty low time of the market, but might have dropped a little further) will be countered by the work I've done on the house, planted 3 trees, replaced the last of the single pane windows, remodeled the master closet. *fingers crossed* If needed, I can pull some of my savings and/or the tax refund to cover a drop in the value, but it just makes so much sense finaincially to take advantage of the lower interest rates.

Looks like I'm going by Roger's tonight. Puppy has been there since yesterday morning visiting with her old foster sister. Roger is taking care of Zoe for a week. I'm gonna go by after work and walk the monsters. Good thing I brought a cute change of clothes and make-up with me today just in case! No uniform for me! grin
Yep! Go in armed!
That's weird my exh got married the other week. Didn't bother me too much but I wish it hadn't been to her! How was your evening?
So how was your weekend?
Weekend was pretty good.

Everything is moving along with the possible refi. Fingers MAJORLY crossed on the appraisal.

Weekend was fun. Birthday party Saturday night, played some pool and chit chatted a bunch. Dropped puppy back at Roger's Monday morning (and what a Monday it was *rolls eyes*). Went by last night because he wanted to give me some coupons for Costco when I mentioned I needed to go. Ended up running into him at Costco while shopping after that (I did pack a super cute top to change into after work though!). I was gonna buy beer, he told me he'd give me half the case he was buying because he'd gotten the rebate in the mail and I was responsible for some of that by buying my computer and gas and such on the account. So we walked out together and split up the beer. I think he thought I looked nice cuz he gave me a nice long hug LOL. I changed into a cute blue halter top and jeans lol. It had a bit of a neckline to it LOL. I wonder what it looked like from 6'3" wink
Quote:
It had a bit of a neckline to it LOL. I wonder what it looked like from 6'3"



OH! NOW I understand why I've been attracting all these tall guys! LOL
LOL!!! Funny! Men will be men after all regardless of the circumstances.

Good job packing the cute top. No uniform for you!
The top is new, so I can't blame any past attractions on it LOL.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. smile
Ha ha - well, the men I've dated since my divorce have been 6'6", 6'4", 6'3", 6'6", and a couple coffee dates were 6'6" and 6'8"! I swear, I never even MET that many tall men before in my life! But then, back in my twenties, I was not a 34DD either - so I think you're onto something here laugh
LOL. Sounds like! Work it girl! wink
Oh, and I finally mailed that letter to Roger yesterday. Figure he'll get it today or tomorrow.
Good job!
Well, if he got the letter, he didn't say anything about it when I saw him a couple hours ago.

He did however take the foam roller I bought for working my IT band after runs off my kitchen table and smack my butt with it while I was in the kitchen lol. Then went outside to play with the dogs. Chicken lol.
Dropped puppy off at his house this am, he'd already left for work. I kinda wonder if that was intentional because he's mulling over the letter. *shrugs* Doesn't really matter, I got the dogs settled and went off to work.
Could be. I'll be interested to see what his response (if any) is to the letter.
I have to go hunt for the letter that you wrote! I remember at one time you mentioning it....I just have way too much on my plate to have my memory be as good on this stuff! lol

kat
I don't remember if I ever posted the final draft. So here it is again.

Roger,

When you first told me that I had treated you better than you had treated me, my initial reaction was to say "no". I have a really hard time thinking of negative things about our relationship. But I deserve a partner who is committed to me. I deserve a partner who will talk to me about issues. I deserve a partner who will not walk out without fighting for us, even if that means fighting with me.

I wrote the following relationship rules when Neal and I were in the midst of our separation. You and I have been so compatible in almost everything that I think I assumed we were operating off the same relationship rules. But in retrospect, I think that was not true. But I will share them with you to hopefully clarify to you why I am so hurt and disappointed with how things have ended.

1. If one person thinks there is a problem, there is a problem.
2. The person who sees the problem has the responsibility to start the discussion and keep it going as long as necessary because neither person in this relationship is likely to be a mind reader.
3. Sometimes it takes repeating yourself before the other person sees how serious the issue is or finally understands how to address the issue.
4. Ask for what you want, suggest solutions, and be specific enough that something can come of the conversation besides just venting.
5. If talking doesn't work, try something else. Actions often speak louder than words. But above all, try something. Then try something else.
6. If you feel a problem hasn't been resolved, ask to do something different (counseling, romantic getaway, etc.) BEFORE you get so frustrated you give up on the relationship. Because...
7. Things are disposable. People are not.
8. Resentment kills desire, don't sweep things under the rug if you aren't sure you can live with them.
9. Hopelessness is the cancer in long-term relationships.
10. Choose your battles wisely, but anything worth breaking up over is worth fighting over first and often.

I also admit there were issues I should have raised with you. I am sorry I didn't do so earlier. Briefly, I was not happy that our date nights, vacations, and other couples time was shelved because of the stress and financial strain of you buying a house. Those types of activities are essential to keeping a relationship thriving in my opinion. I was not happy with the Cymbalta and EMDR because of the side effects on our sex life, which was compounded by a lack of dedicated couples time. I was disappointed and very hurt with your lack of response to my consciously acting on your requests to buy and wear more lingerie and initiate sex more often. I was also concerned about the amount of alcohol you were drinking as you are not supposed to drink at all with both your anti-seizure meds and anti-depressants. I spent a good portion of November and December thinking about what I wanted to say and trying to find a good time to sit down and have these conversations when we wouldn't be interrupted and you weren't already in a bad mood. As I never found a time when both of those conditions was satisfied, I put off having that conversation.

When it all is boiled down to the basics, we agree on many of the things that needed work in our relationship. But there is a fundamental disagreement over whether the effort should be put in to fix them. I believed we were worth the effort, and I know I am worth the effort. I will not settle.

Michelle
I remember it now. Not sure if it was the final draft or not from before. I have been so busy at work lately that my memory isn't as good as it usually is. I have to admit my memory isn't like Marilu Henner but it is pretty close and works pretty much the same way.

Don't what she does when she is on overload...hmmmm.

kat
That was an EXCELLENT letter and DESERVES a response from him. If he doesn't then you are better off moving on. You are right - do not settle!

BA
So turns out he hadn't seen the letter when he was over before. I was over picking up the dog around May 3rd and he mentioned he got it in the mail. He hasn't responded really. He said maybe he'd write a letter back or something.

He had Kelsey from the 10th through yesterday. He dropped her off and we got burgers and made small talk for a little bit.

The drive up and back to Oregon for my grandfather's memorial service was nice and the weather was beautiful. Got to see lots of family and catch up. It's always hard for me though to see all my aunts and uncles and cousins with their significant others. Most of the people on my mom's side of the family have been married for 20, 30, 40, or in my grandparent's case, 62 years. I'm SO jealous. And so lonely. I feel like there's some secret that no one is telling me.

I've really been struggling with this break-up for some reason. In some ways it's harder than the divorce. I have always been an optimistic and happy person, always had faith that things will work out in the end, that things happen for a reason. I struggled with that faith with the divorce, but I didn't feel like I lost it. I feel broken this time though. I don't want to start over again, I don't have the energy, but I don't want to be alone either. I see my aunt, who just had hip surgery, with my uncle, holding hands, checking on each other, and that's what I want. I want that 30 years of shared history, that friendship, that love. And it keeps getting taken away from me, and I can't understand why.

After that, I went on my vacation to Maui. It was beautiful, it was fun, I got to see some amazing things and I'd love to go back, but it was so lonely. I never want to go on vacation alone again. I missed having someone to talk to, to do things with, to share those memories with. I couldn't even do some of the things I wanted to do like the lava tube tour because it required a minimum of 2 to make a reservation. And to be surrounded by couples on honeymoon or renewing their vows, UGH! Going out to dinner alone and being asked if I was waiting for someone. So horrible!

Then, the closest I've come to having a date in months (guy at a coffee shop in Lahaina), I end up getting some food that had shrimp mixed in with it and having to take an anti-histamine and go to bed with hives.

I keep waiting for it to get better. I keep waiting for my optimism to come bubbling back up, but it's not. I am just as broken and hurt and bitter now as I was right after the break-up. How many times can a heart be broken before you can't find all the pieces to put it back together again? I don't feel like I'm healing at all. And I haven't for a while now, I just haven't known what to say about it let alone do about it.

I've been taking the adrenal and thyroid stress supplements like I did during the worst of the divorce. They helped a lot with my depression then, but I don't know if they're helping now.

Maybe it just doesn't feel like it because Roger seems to be doing so well? He is doing ashtanga (sp?) yoga, his EMDR seems to be moving along, he has cut back the dosage on his Cymbalta to every other day, and he seems to be so happy alone while I seem to be stuck.
I think because you are hoping still that this relationship will work out. You have to start acting as if he is gone for good. You have still interacted so much, I am sure it makes it difficult. You see his mood swings and you are constantly having to act as if.

There isn't another woman involved here and so that may make it harder to accept. Now it is just him and his issues. Let him work through it and maybe don't see him so much. I am sure getting to still see you, helps him.

kat
Oh Michelle, I'm so sorry you are feeling so stuck.

In so many ways this breakup seems much harder on you than the D. At least in the D a major line was crossed that caused trust issues. Dealbreaker type stuff. In this, it's just so unresolved. frown If I had any advice to give it would be...go to counseling. You need a professional to help walk you through your feelings. This had just been too long to be feeling like this.

Like kat said, I think the constant interaction is becoming more of a deterrent to your healing than anything else. I'm really glad to hear that Roger is finding healing and help in his therapy and activities but where does that leave you? STUCK! Stuck watching him get healthy and happy while you spin in the wind.

NO GOOD!

Take care of you. Step back. Something has to be done and only you can do it.
Yeah, you're right, there was no deal breaker issue here. Not even a very clear cut (to my mind) reason, no big fight.

Even XH has found another person to put up with him and is off on his honeymoon period of bliss.

So many of my friends have gotten married or in serious relationships, I feel like I'm the only single one let alone the only divorced one. So obviously I'm doing something wrong, whether it's in my relationships or in who I am attracted to, and I can't figure out what it is!

On a good note, I think I have a roomie starting either this weekend or next. The con is I have to finish cleaning out the spare room! I am really looking forward to having the company around.
Hi girlfriend!
I think it is only natural to feel the way you do. Roger was supposed to be all the things your xh couldnt be or didnt want to. Roger was supposed to be...correct, right.

You will find the love of your life. All of this is you getting ready for it. You will have the fine balance you need to achieve a long term companionship. It could be Roger but it may not be him, we will see.
Stay positive and strong,
xxxx
K
I wish I could believe that.

After having a 2 1/2 yr relationship end, then my 5 year M, now a 3 yr relationship, about the only thing I am convinced of is that something must be wrong with me. I'm losing out on the years that I should be settling down, I'm missing any chance to have kids (guess it's a good thing I was never set on having any), watching all my friends and family succeed where I cannot. I am so tired of starting over. It gets harder each time, not better. I feel like there are more pieces to pick up each time, and I can't find them all anymore. The wounds never heal, they just scar over, and then the scars get reopened.
I think that 2-3 year mark is kind of the make up your mind period. The relationship is going forward or I'm bailing sort of thing. Don't beat yourself up over that, it's like trying on a different role and seeing how it fits you.

Marriage of course should be different but sometimes the people we marry get abducted and turn into these wacko aliens. They cheat and lie and are just terrible. honestly I think they never really grew up and are acting like spoiled little brats like it should be ok to sleep with someone else!

Anyhow, don't give up. If I, at 47, still believe that I have something wonderful to offer than so should you. I do believe that someimes we try so hard to find someone that we don't see the people right in front of us. Don't sweat it, love will find you again when you are ready.

kat
*sometimes*
I guess I'm just getting too cynical. I can't believe there's anyone out there who even wants to make a relationship work.
Oh Michelle, I'm so sorry. You are sounding despondent and that's not like you at all. frown

I can tell you this for certain....it's NOT you! Examine the 'reasons' these men left. I didn't know about that 2.5 year one. What happened there? We all know what destroyed your M and it had nothing to do with you at all. Roger....well....Roger has his own set of issues. How are those your fault?

There is no way to imagine how you feel exactly, but feeling like there must be something wrong with you is something I completely identify with and I'm again, so sorry you are feeling this way.

Is there anyway to re-frame some things in your mind so they don't seem to daunting?

Starting over? Look at it as an opportunity for a new beginning with endless possibilities.

Not a success? Well, that's debateable. There are plenty of other successes in your life. Yes, the feeling of accomplishing a goal of a settled down life has been eluding you, but in so many other ways you take the prize!

Too many pieces to pick up? Yes, there are a lot of pieces but you AREN'T Humpty Dumpty. You have all your pieces but they are going to have to fit back together differently than they used to.

Redefine your needs and wants.

What do you need to feel more whole? We all know the answer is not a R, right? A R is a want.

Do you think it's time to put more distance between you and Roger and truly move forward? Personally, I do, but that is just me.

There's nothing that says that if you go on a couple of dates with someone else that there would be no possible future for you and Roger after he gets his own stuff straightened out, right?
I've dated plenty that have lasted that 6 months or so true honeymoon period. I guess I would have said it's more than 1-2 years of figuring things out period. Why would you stay with someone longer than that if you didn't think it was forever?
And Michelle, have you considered whether the issue might not be whether you are unloveable, but why you keep picking guys who are not capable of committed love? Do you see any patterns in your choices of guys? Do they have their roots in any childhood issues?
The 2 1/2 year one was early in college. When he left for basic training for the Army, we tried to do long distance. Unfortunately, he had his priorities a little backwards. He went 4 weeks without calling me because he used up all his phone time on those Sundays calling his mom. I wrote a couple letters to him about it, and finally broke up with him. That got me a phone call, heh.
Well, it definitely has to be one or the other.

And I've analyzed that to the point of making myself crazy. I've dated as far from my type as I can think of, all over the spectrum. I guess it's fair to say they have all had some childhood issues, but then again, who hasn't? Even with my parents being together and having a relatively stable childhood, it doesn't change the fact that my dad is controlling and overbearing and still causes me grief even after not living at home for 13 years.
Because it is easier than having to get back out there. I certainly don't know very many people that are big fans of change. So things are going along fine but maybe this isn't where you see yourself a couple of years down the road. So do you dump the relationship now or wait until something makes you do it? I bet the majority would wait since the relationship isn't bad it just isn't what you want for life.

kat
Quote:
my dad is controlling and overbearing and still causes me grief even after not living at home for 13 years.


So - how do you think this gets reflected in your relationship choices? Do you pick difficult men because they feel familiar? Or men who are critical of you, because by winning them over, you feel like you can win the affirmation you wish you got from your dad?
No, exactly the opposite if anything.
Meaning you pick wimpy guys so you can feel in control?
No, I definitely like being around laid back people. Guys who know how to compromise and don't make a big deal out of the littler things, like whether to have Mexican or Thai for dinner.

As for criticism, it's obviously nicer to be complimented and appreciated. If people are going to make criticisms though, I prefer them to be plain about it. My dad can be very manipulative and play the martyr card and that is a huge turn off, drives me totally nuts.
Roger called me last night, I let it go to voicemail. He was letting me know that he was considering adopting a black lab. He wasn't sure if he'd need a reference to put on the adoption papers, but if he did he was wondering if he could use me. I haven't called him back yet.

I think the only thing that needs to be said about it is that this dog needs to get along with Kelsey. He's going to have Kelsey for two weeks next month while I'm at annual training and potentially for a year if I end up on the UN Kosovo mobilization next rotation.

I'm almost tempted to tell him to just take Kelsey if he wants a dog that bad, but I know part of it is that he hates seeing dogs get put down and, so long as they get along, Kelsey will have some company when she is over there.
WAsn't Kelsey Roger's idea in the first place? Sorry I would tell him to keep her unless you are deeply attached. Good for letting it go to voice mail. I would drop him an email if you decide to let him use you as a reference. No point getting on the phone.

Big hugs, kat
Kelsey was the result of his friends asking if someone could adopt her yeah. How can you not get attached to a puppy? I would miss my running buddy. And Sunday walks with my friend Joanna and her three dogs. And having someone to cuddle on the couch with me. But it [censored] because I know I have to spend so much time away from her.

Now he's IMing me.
ARGH!

I'm in agreement with kat. Since you have to spend so much time away from her and she has such separation anxiety might it be better for her to just have a stable home with Roger? It would be really hard, I know, but if there is a possibility you may end up on that Kosovo assignment (WHAT? When did this come up? Did you say something about it and I missed it?? ARGH!) then maybe it's for the best.
Her separation anxiety and my house being her "home" was exactly his reasons for not taking her with him. And he's also using that to justify getting another dog - so she'll have someone to play with when she's over there.

Kosovo is a possibility, but that's like a year from now, so plenty of time to figure things out still. It's still unsure who is going exactly.
I have a Dutch friend working for UN in kossovo. You will have to come visit, you I'll stay with us. IF you go....

Michelle, don't let this bring you down.
Xxxxxx
M
M, that sounds like a plan! I will definitely keep you posted!

Things are moving along here. Roommate (Amber) is moving in to the spare room on Sunday. Still feeling all over the map. I'll have a good day, but it never seems to last. Working out really helps, but it's only a temporary boost. I'm really excited about the Van Halen concert Sunday night, but I'm also just moody and not feeling anywhere close to 100%. Hadn't talked to Roger much this week, he IM'd me this am.

[10:15] roger: Hey there
[10:25] roger: Just curious... why you haven't brought over puppy
[10:25] mi: hey
[10:26] mi: I figured with the short work week she'd be fine
[10:26] mi: didn't seem like zoe was gonna be over or anything
[10:26] mi: not to mention you said your lawn needed recovery time (I guess zoe was really browning the lawn, so the combo of both dogs being over really did a number on his yard)
[10:28] roger: OK yeah my lawn is doing better. finally...lol
[10:29] roger: Yeah... so anyway. just thought I'd check in about pup. ttyl
[10:30] mi: ok
Van Halen was awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think it was a date though.....went with a friend of mine who I've known for like 5 years or so, but it was just the two of us (he'd bought the tickets and invited me), he drove there and back (which carpooling makes sense obviously with cost of parking and such, but he offered to pick me up from my house, which wasn't on the way really), and wouldn't let me pay him back for the ticket.

So I'm suspicious about that. And not sure how I feel about it - he's a great guy, super nice, had a good time chit chatting and all (too much actually - we were so busy talking he missed one of the interchanges going into Berkeley and ended up going over the Bay bridge into San Francisco lol). But I'm not exactly feeling 100% ready to date either. At least I leave for annual training this weekend so I have a couple weeks to mull it over.
Hmmm...

Sounds interesting. And he sounds like a nice guy. But you are right to take your time. See how you feel.

Van Halen would have been an AWESOME concert - I'm jealous!

You know - you can always "date" as friends. See how it goes. Just having interaction with a nice guy can be great.

Barb
I sent him a text this am, "Thanks again for a great night smile But I think Tattoo is forever ruined lol" (he was telling me on the drive back about a parody version these radios guys did, "fat dude", and I woke up with that in my head LOL). He texted me back "It was a lot of fun. I don't take every girl on a loop through San Francisco to see the city lights :)"
Don't mind read Michelle. You don't know what his thoughts are. I have always thought it was nice to have a guy to do stuff with that was a friend. Okay so they did usually end up liking me and I was totally oblivious. Maybe no the point I was trying to make.

I guess what I am trying to say is let it be what it was...a couple of friends going to a concert. VH is pretty special to me. Our song was one of theirs from the Sammy days. When I was still trying to salvage our marriage I bought tickets when they were in KC. So bummed that Mike wasn't on bass. These boys fight a lot(Yes Eddie I am talking about you!) Ended up being the first rock concert that then s15 went to.

I think he was my better option anyhow. lol

kat
Quote:
we were so busy talking he missed one of the interchanges going into Berkeley and ended up going over the Bay bridge into San Francisco lol


I've done that! Aargh!
Well, I have known him for 5 years. And I'm definitely getting a different vibe off him now.

But either way, it was fun. So it doesn't matter.

Van Halen was totally totally awesome. Definitely worth the drive and late night on a work night. smile

That's awesome that you took S15. Sounds like a ton of fun.

Yeah, it was pretty funny. We had to get off the freeway by AT&T park and turn around. No big deal, and nice that he can laugh at himself about it. smile
Well speaking from a guy's perspective I would say yes, in his eyes it was probably a date and he is testing the waters to see how you respond. His response to your text seemed flirtatious as well. Just my two cents.

BA
Thanks for the guy's perspective. smile Always nice to have another opinion. And yeah, I interpreted his text that way too.
Michelle, I know you said he's been your friend for 5 years. Does that mean you don't think he's attractive or have you just never looked at him with that eye because he's just been a friend?

Sometimes those guys that are the closest friends end up being the best men in our lives in more ways than one. wink
A relationship based on a good friendship can be a great one. You already would have a history, a liveability and shared interests. Unless you see him as a "brother".

Barb
I have never looked at him that way. He has been part of a group I hang out with for line dancing for a lot of years. When we met, I was still married, so into the friend category he goes lol.

Shannon is a good looking guy, a total gentleman, works as a software engineer, decent dancer, plays guitar, is big into aikido, and we definitely have some interests in common. Running (he is training for a Tough Mudder right now), dancing (and consequently lots of overlap in musical tastes), some definite overlap in movies and such (we were quoting Spaceballs at each other towards the end of the drive back from the concert LOL). He was always someone I would have had no problem introducing a friend to. I haven't seen him date much, but he comes off as a little shy and I think he ends up in the friend category with a lot of girls.

I wouldn't say I view him as a brother. But I am having a bit of a hard time wrapping my head around this shift. And I agree with you both that starting as friends can be great, even though I also worry about losing him as a friend.
Stop worrying about it and let things happen as they will. wink

kat
smile
See y'all in a couple weeks. smile Doubt I'll have regular internet access for annual training, so don't do anything I wouldn't do while I'm gone (if for no other reason than I'd like to laugh at you wink)!
Take care! I won't do anything you wouldn't do!

kat
I can't promise anything! smile
(((Michelle)))

Hope you are having a great time!
Well, we made it.

Exercise got called a day early because of some wildfires outside Salt Lake City. But overall, not a bad AT. I've definitely been to worse. smile
I was very good the whole time...promise. wink

kat
Well I was slightly bad - but heck it was worth it! smirk
LOL!

I wish I had been slightly bad. I tried. wink
So what are you up to Michelle?
Being slightly bad. wink

Been out dancing a ton this week. Went line dancing Saturday, Sunday, and last night. Also went to see a local band Friday night. Which leads me to my other discovery - Van Halen was definitely a date. When I was fishing out my car keys Friday night Shannon told me that he thought there were a few things that had been left unresolved and kissed me good night. He is a most excellent kisser. blush
Ooooooo!!!!!! And that is bad why? grin

It sounds like bad is oh so good!
Yeah, been a good week grin
Don't you mean it was a bad week but in a good way?! wink. Lol

kat
Semantics lol wink

All I know for sure is he's coming over for diner tomorrow night and we are taking my cousin line dancing. He has been teaching her a few of the couple's dances. He's such a nice guy like that.
I kinda thought that was the case...it sounds like a good thing, but how do you feel about him? Are you attracted to him or is this just a diversion?

BA
Went to see MIB3 last night with Shannon. Had a really nice time. Got a text this am asking if I want to go see Brad Paisley in concert next week. Definitely going well. smile
Yeeeee ha!
Ugh. I'm dragging today. Thunderstorms last night had the dog barking half the night. 5 hours of not consecutive sleep just doesn't cut it!

But I'm looking forward to Brad Paisley on Thursday at least!
Definitely worth looking forward to.
My dad is seriously going to drive me batty.

I don't know how to have a relationship with him where the effort isn't all coming from me.

He didn't call or send a card or anything for my birthday. Didn't hear anything from him except a couple links sent by e-mail to stuff that isn't even interesting to me until I called him for Thanksgiving.

Never did get any kind of acknowledgement/apology about missing my birthday. Got a guilt trip for not calling more often. And got to listen to him complain about everything for 20 minutes.

I don't even want to talk to him because all he does is complain, but I do because I feel obligated to. But the passive aggressive comments and guilt trips about not calling more often really discourage me from calling more often.
Originally Posted By: MichelleLT
I don't even want to talk to him because all he does is complain, but I do because I feel obligated to. But the passive aggressive comments and guilt trips about not calling more often really discourage me from calling more often.


Completely agree. I feel exactly that way with my Mom. Just shows that those tactics never work in relationships.

I would keep up the NC and go dark for now... Oh wait we're talking about your Dad smile
UGH! Well, by now it's not very likely that he'll grow up and change his ways.
No, it doesn't work. And no, it's not likely he'll change.

The easiest thing to do is NC.

Trying to actually have a relationship, that's hard. Even trying to think of things to talk to him about is ridiculously hard. Can't talk about dating anyone because then I'll get the third degree on that and wondering if I'm ever going to remarry and when I'm going to have kids. Can't talk about the holiday parties or going wine tasting with my friends or anything because then I'll get the lecture about how alcoholism runs in his side of the family and I shouldn't be drinking at all. If I talk about the house, I either spent too much or not enough or did it the way he absolutely wouldn't have done it.

I was talking to my sister about the situation and she told me that I should try and get past caring about his opinion, and that if I don't feel that he's judging me maybe I'd have an easier time talking to him and ignoring his comments. I pointed out that it's not about whether I feel like he's judging us, he IS and he has no problem saying so, or better yet passive agressively sending out mass e-mails in which he fails to say who prompted the e-mail but hopes the semi-public guilt trip will change the behavior. And everything we fail to do is a personal affront to him, he often makes comments that he failed as a parent or obviously failed to get through to us.

I guess I just don't even know what to talk about with him besides the weather. I'm certainly not sure what to do about his birthday - I wouldn't know what to get him, but I'm also still pissed about the fact that he didn't call, send a card/e-card, present, even a text message for my birthday, so I'm tempted to ignore his birthday.
I kinda have the same thing with my dad and I'm living with him. He moans and moans. There is no point in asking how his day was, it's the same every time- negativity. The way I have dealt with it is to just be/ show kindness whatever because at the end of the day his griping is his own unhappiness with his life and not yours, my dad just can't express his feelings so it comes out in other ways. The kindness thing is working, he is much better. It just took a bit of time and hardening on my part in not taking things personally. We actually ended up having a nice evening watching telly tonight- not one single moan.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, hang in there cos he's your dad. But I know how frustrating it must be.
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