Well, I was served on Monday the 14th of June. stbxWH sat on the papers for a month. I think I still need to be able to comment on my thread and hope to get some advice from others who have been there.
So, how do I tell everyone? I am returning to work after staying home for a year with my baby. I haven't told my school. I just don't know where to start.
sorry- one more q- what do I do with my ring? I mean I am thinking of pawning it but do I really want $500 or some piddly amount? is it worth it? what did you do?
I'm sorry, newmama.
Just tell the school you are getting divorced. They need no more information than that.
Friends, coworkers, etc.? I am at the point right now that I simply say, "Mrs. G. decided her own path was more important than our vows." And while it's not my usual LBH compelled-to-tell-the-whole-story spiel, It still has more of an edge to it than it should. I'll probably condense it further to, "she chose her own path." Period.
My ring is in the Atlantic Ocean in the exact spot from where I once watched her on shore and first admitted to myself, "God, I love her!"
The Surviving The Big D roller coaster begins the same as the others. But it eventually slows down an begins to level out.
We'll help you in any way we can.
Sorry to see you had to make the move here, NM. It didn't seem that long ago you moved into the Infidelity forum. Your H is just another fool, sadly.
Hugs and blessings
Oh, and I'll have just a glass of red wine.
(((NM)))
Sorry to see you moved your thread. I am not quite ready to do that yet! Maybe soon....
NM
Hope you will still come visit my thread! Your pma and confidence is amazing! It always lifts me up!
Thank you Gardener and NCBlues!
Yeah I have finally started to "invade" the wine fridge, which has wine stocked from our trip to Napa and other wine tasting outings. So far, the 3 different Pinot Noirs from 2006 SUCKED!! I opened one, tried a few tastes, let it breathe, no good. Dumped it out. Did the same for the other 2. So there is $100 red wine literally "down the drain!" lol! I enjoyed wasting it for some reason.
Well I guess the reason why I am so reluctant to tell everyone is that when I left the school, I was big and pregnant and didn't tell anyone my WH had left me. As you know, I was hoping for reconciliation. They were all excited for me and my husband to start our new family.
But I guess I can keep it simple and say "my H freaked out and decided he'd rather be a part time dad than have a family." OR like Gardener shortened it, "My H freaked out."
Am feeling ANGRY today. WH is trying to act all friendly and casual and excited about moving back to our town to be closer to S so he "doesn't have to spend so much time in traffic." And whose fault is that?
So am just venting. I look forward to following others' threads and seeing how you all navigate through this.
Hey newmama!
Nice new digs!
Is it time to change your name to Hotmama yet?
one more q- what do I do with my ring?
My .02. You may want to save it for son. Someday he will ask what happened and may feel insecure or whatever. It would be a nice symbol of the love that existed when he was conceived.
Keep in touch..Visit in the alt.
(((((nm)))))
Sorry you're here NM. But you are welcome!
You know, my now-XW sent an email to my boys' teachers to let them know what was going on - just because there was kind of a need to know there, so they were aware.
Most people close to me knew what was going on as it happened, but at this point I don't really feel a need to say it. I live my life, do my things, and will occasionally say things like "Sorry can't make it, I've got my boys tonight" and I leave it at that. I guess if I'd have advice, I say if you need to mention it then mention it in passing.
The ring? It's in my closet. I don't know, it's still important to me, in the sense that it represents 10 years - well let's say 11 if you count the end - of my life. It represents the period that gave me my boys, and a relationship that was significant to me. I guess I don't feel a need to do ANYTHING with it. I know XW is keeping hers, thinking that she'll give it to one of the boys to give to his wife some day.
I have my ring still too. It was in the medicine cabinet in my bathroom but then I moved it to the kitchen drawer. It is worth more to me to keep it than sell it. It reminds me of the type of guy that I am. I did, however, toss my house key into the lake next to my apartment!
Of course I will still post on your thread, CW! :-) I need to keep tabs on you! And WN too! maybe we really can go on the Jerry Springer show together- what do you say? lol!
WN that is nice to think of the love that was there when S was conceived. It's funny because the last photo I think of his daddy and I taken together is in our Halloween costumes!
I guess I will save it. WH flushed his ring from his first marriage down the toilet but says he wants to keep this one. Gee, wonder what OW will think of that!
Thanks for posting, Geronimo and Violin! Violin, have you met Piano? (lol!)
So today I told my principal and said I would tell the rest of the staff in a couple of weeks. It felt like a relief in a way.
I was thinking of writing WH a letter but I don't know if it is really worth it. He is clueless I think! I will post what I want to say.
I wish you could feel the pain I am feeling. Then I remember- you are doing to me what your first wife did to you. Except you dragged it out longer and there wasn't a child involved. So...
Can you remember how you felt when A divorced you? Would you have wanted to have pleasant conversations with her and stayed friends with her after she left you for another man? Imagine having to exchange your son with her every day- you have to hand him over to her and her boyfriend...and know that she is spending every day with her boyfriend's daughter but not her own son.
She left you because she couldn't cut off contact with him in order to give her marriage a fair shot. She didn't let you know what she needed so you could give it to her. No. Instead she just wrote you off and you didn't even get a chance. She probably was telling that other guy what she needed so he was able to give it to her instead of you. SHe had this fantasy that the way she felt with her boyfriend would last forever! So she married him!
Oh, wait- 3 years later she was calling you and emailing you and telling you how she made a mistake and she should have never left you. But you were married already so it was too late. Why can't you see this is what will happen to you?
----------------------------------
this is all true, btw. I just added imagine if you shared a child with her. Yes, she did try to contact him. AND HE HID it from me! Thinking I would be worried! I can't believe I had a child with this man!
What's your objective? This is a stir-the-pot letter.
Write it down saying everything you want to express. Then burn it.
The wayward, when there's an OP and by the time it gets to D, is highly unlikely to be phased by anything the LBS has to say anyway.
I would think that right now the letter should be for catharsis only.
You are right! This is precisely why I have barely said anything to him this whole time (among DBing reasons)because what is the point??? My friend last night was telling me that because he is acting all "non chalant" and trying to be polite with me that he needs to hear what he is doing. And try to imagine how it feels.
But I feel like it is pointless. Thanks for agreeing! I have 4 drafts of different emails to delete now, lol!
Hello Ms NewMama..
Congratulations on your beautiful son! And my sympathy to you for your spouse's choice.
I've read this current thread and struggled on what to say. So here it is..
The ring? Put it away for a year if and when the divorce is finalized, then worry about it. But I'd stop wearing it.
Your divorcing spouse has made his choice, 'heart over brain'. Now it's your turn, but following the opposite parameters, 'brain over heart'. Step back and be realistic about your situation. He's involved with another woman, has been. He's blowing you off emotionally while still taking care of the physical upkeep. You're paying almost the entire mortgage. Is this a guy looking for reconciliation?
Have you seen a lawyer to know your legal rights? That is always a prudent step. It doesn't mean you've closed up hope for your marriage, but you need to know what to expect financially and with custody now and in the future.
One woman I know was successful in her marriage after she found out about her husband's affair with a much younger woman. She consulted with a lawyer, then told her spouse exactly how much he'd lose (tons) if he went forward with his affair. They're still together after 50 years. Sometimes it takes a firm whack in the head to get their attention to be able to do the work.
It sounds like you gave him firm boundaries when you discovered the affair. Decide what works for you, not him. If he won't meet your objectives, then move forward with the divorce. Take control of the situation.
Stop trying to understand him (re: the letter) in passive/aggressive terms. State your needs, your boundaries and the consequences. Reconciling while your spouse is embroiled in a passionate affair is next to impossible. He's most likely to respond to an either/or choice.. where the little brain meets the big brain.
DBing does not mean sacrificing yourself. One person said it's a means to stop a divorce. And if that doesn't work, it's to do what's right for you, your child. Not what works for him.
You're a strong woman. Flex your muscles, drop the rope and move the divorce along. You have nothing to lose, aside from twirling on an emotional hook, tugged by his whims.
*hugs*
Hi Gypsy! Thank you for your advice, but I am not trying to stop the divorce. If this is what he wants, so be it. He is moving in "officially" with her and her child so it's the end.
I am squared away financially and with custody. He is being more than generous in the financial aspect. (from a legal point of view).
I have no hope for reconciliation and I can even waive the 90 days and have this divorce finalized in September instead of November if I wanted to. So am looking into that.
At this point, just trying to adjust and deal with my emotions and be able to vent to someone who won't just say "you're better off without him! don't worry you'll be fine!" you know? You folks here can say "I know where you are at and understand why you don't know what to do with the ring." etc.
I need to get busy on others' threads so I can learn from you all!
Hey Ms Mama...
I understand how difficult it is to figure out what to do with wedding ring. Mine is in a little envelop in my jewelry box tucked away. It seems tainted and something I'd never want to have near my body. I always wondered why some divorced women felt so good about making their diamond into a necklace. Perhaps if in the future I'd put it into some type of setting that has other gems (diamonds included) so it doesn't stick out. Right now it feels right to have it out of sight.
And the emotional chaos of divorce is exhausting. My only word of caution is that it's not about his needs; that if he wants then it's over. Divorce begins in the mind. Focus on you. Your needs in moving forward.
*hugs*
HI NM! Just stopped by to see how were doing! Looks like you have already gotten some great advice in this forum! Maybe I will join you over here one of these days!
I was surprised to read that your H's first wife had an A on him and divorced him. This is the same story for my H...his first W (they M cuz she was pg) and D'd 4yrs later after he found out she had an A. She ended up marrying her OM and they D'd about 5yrs later. She never tried reconnecting with my H though...as many times as I have read the similarities in a lot of our sitch's, I am still amazed when I read a new similarity!!!
Hope you have a great weekend!!!
Newmama, I have not met Piano but I do know that the violin and the piano make beautiful music together! lol
CW you definitely have an MLC husband so I see why you are still in that forum! Besides, it has been 3 months since you have seen any activity from your H regarding D, right? So stay put! Unless you feel like you want to move on it and come here. Thanks so much for visiting me!
OK well I did talk/text with WH tonight. But first I was reading Geronimo's thread and he posted this (in the beginning of his thread) which resonated with me:
I suppose what I'm looking for is the ability to grow into this. Accept what is. Figure out what I need to do - and like Karen pointed out (and I'm paraphrasing) - have a clear head about my direction and be less wrapped up about my R with W. STBXW.
I mean I know WH just told me the news on Monday but this is exactly what I am trying to do - to grow into this. To make "divorced" my life. lol! I mean I know I am more than just a divorcee, but I mean to really fit into that role.
Now I was texting WH tonight about the wine. I felt like I should let him know that I was digging into the stash. Technically, he told me that he only wanted the love seat and roll top desk and tools. But still, I know that we had maybe $500 worth of red wine in our wine fridge and it wouldn't be right of me to just take it all.
So I asked him if he wanted any and he said he would like a couple of bottles. Then the next text was from me saying
"we can waive the 90 days you know."
he replied that he didn't know that but that he wanted me to be covered by his insurance until I went back to work (in 2 months). I reminded him that he can cover an ex wife and he said yes, for $400 extra per month. If I wanted to waive the 90 days he would do that though. So I told him no, I don't want to waste money. (Money that is wasted is taken from our S. And from OW I guess but our S is part of the equation.)
So then I asked him "is that why you didn't file for so long- because you wanted to make sure I was covered by your insurance? I am asking honestly, not being snotty."
He replied "No. Honestly I waited because I knew it would be the hardest thing I've ever done and I never was looking forward to it."
me: "you were thinking about how hard it would be for you? it had nothing to do with you not being sure?"
him: "hard for me and hard on you and yes,lots of uncertainty."
me:"Thank you for being honest. I think you probably can remember how you felt when A left you and wanted a divorce. So that is 1/2 of what I am going thru."
"did you tell your work yet?"
him: "I've told some of them. Maybe everyone knows by now by the way people talk. I don't know they don't say much at least when I'm around. There will always be some doubt in my mind whether I am making the right decision. Just to be completely honest with you."
so then I went on to let him know how I felt (not in a nasty way, just matter of fact. due to DBing rules, I NEVER got the chance to tell him this whole time! (I chose not to)).
him: "I'm sorry. I know I've hurt you badly and I truly am sorry. I know that doesn't make you feel any better."
So I said some other stuff and then he called me about half an hour later. He said it was better than us texting back and forth. I explained that I wasn't planning on telling him all of this stuff right now; it just is coming up. (truth!)
I was calm and just told him things like how ultimately I will be fine and happy with someone else but that I am so confused and hurt as to why he just didn't tell me he was unhappy and wanted to be with OW before we conceived our son or even right after. He said it wasn't cut and dry.
I said I don't regret the time we had together but it was just cut short because he wouldn't give us a chance. And other stuff. I was calm, crying sometimes, and said how I would never have another baby because I don't want S to feel like "the half son" and that I never got to experience the bonding and joy and love with him while being with our son, like I saw at the zoo today. I said it hurts so much to know he and OW probably share bonding moments over him but I just block it out of my mind and try not to think about it.
I told him that I am just saying these things not because I was trying to talk him out of anything- but because I just need him to hear it and to hear me.
Of course he had nothing to say. "I'm sorry, There is nothing I can say to help you feel better, I know."
Sure there is "you're right. how can I make it up to you? let's make this work!"
I feel better though.
NM!
You are right...I am not ready to move over here...yes, H has filed but so far no activity...we are pretty dark and it is good on my end!
Everyone goes thru a life transition every 7-10yrs. My H went thru one in 2001 when he had his first A and is now going thru another one and he is handling it the same way. He came home after the first one...not "expecting" him to do the same this time but I still have hope!
Here I am going on about me!!! YOU are going to be fine! I have know that since I started following your sitch! Don't send H the email....YOU know in your heart you will be fine... your H has to figure this out on his own!
Have a wonderful weekend NM!!!
(((NM)))
We were posting at the same time!
I don't even know that to say about you and your H's convo...you got some things said that you needed to say to help bring some closure...your H seems to be feeling some guilt and uncertainty..
Wow. If this were to happen to me, it'd be just like your situation. I'm really really glad you said what you felt.
That's what matters.
just journaling:
stbxWH came to pick up S. I let him in, and went to wash dishes. I was still wearing my pj's. After this entry, I will work out and then get ready to go hang with some friends tonight. I have to bring myself to pack up his clothes. Maybe tomorrow. I don't want him in MY room.
Well he tried to make small talk, no mention of last night's conversation. He said "if you need me to pick up S early some time so you can get stuff done, then please feel free to call me."
Why does this piss me off? Well I just said thank you and told him he could go pick S up. He has this bad habit of hanging out. I didn't realize how clueless he was until this whole thing happened between us...seriously- if you are rejecting and inflicting pain on a person, you do NOT linger in their presence!! Leave them alone!!
I told my friend what he said last night on the phone.
My friend said "sorry newmama but he really is a selfish bad person. You were wrong about him. He is divorcing you while feeling doubt which is unfair to you, S and even to OW. Why move in with her when he has doubt about their relationship? He is just living in the moment. He really is not a good guy."
I am not messed up-I didn't date men who abused me or mistreated me. But I know WH wasn't like this when I met him and wasn't until his A. Honestly! I was feeling bad about all of my shortcomings to the marriage because he was such a good husband right up to the A. I know there are other LBWs who believe me. So I still can't believe he is no longer good. It must be inside of him still somewhere. It's just mind boggling. But I don't have to make sense of it today.
My friend said "now will this help you to accept the divorce and see you are better off without him?" arrrrggggh! enough of that crap!! I just told her that I am not going to be able to just suddenly "accept" this. It is a process and I thanked her for listening (and regretted telling her this stuff). I promised I would be in a good mood when I came over later.
How can I tell anyone that I still would want to mend things with him? But at the same time, I am starting to not see him as evil or bad but just inept. not "strong enough to be my man."
and another thing--I feel like I don't have the option to sit around as long as I need to "heal" before dating. I guess because if I figure if I meet a good guy before my son is like 4 or 5, it will be easier for my son to accept him. Plus, I would like to have some fun before I turn 40 (not that I doubt 40 somethings don't know how to party! But I want to make the most of my 30s first!)
and another thing--I feel like I don't have the option to sit around as long as I need to "heal" before dating. I guess because if I figure if I meet a good guy before my son is like 4 or 5, it will be easier for my son to accept him.
Pfft. Too needy. You're going to wind up with another jerk most likely if you hold onto this sense of urgency.
I guess since you are 46 without kids you don't know what I am talking about!
Hi NM
Have you ever read the resources in the MLC forum? Have you wondered if your H is in MLC? From how you have described him pre-OW and how he is now...I am wondering if maybe he is going thru a "life transition". Not that that in any way excuses his behaviour and actions to you and your marraige.
Just curious!
Hi NM, come to see you on your new thread.
Very happy you told WH all those things. I can't believe you were so strong in your DBing to have kept them in all this time!! I kept nothing in with my WH, for better or worse.
How are you feeling today?
As for the school, just be straight up and tell them. No extra info needed.
I don't think your H is a "bad guy". I don't think my H is a "bad guy". I think they are both behaving badly. Very badly. I think they are both behaving in a selfish way. I am not sure it is up to anybody to judge who is "good or bad" at their core but it's not hard to see (you, me, any LBS really) when behavior suddenly shifts from "good" to "bad". I don't think my H or your H sits up at night thinking of ways to hurt us more. I do think they are so blinded by selfishness and weakness they simply can't see how destructive they are.
Affairs are very, very powerful things. I agree that our husbands are weak. Your H left when you got pregnant and my H left when I got sick. And neither of them were man enough to leave on their own accord... they both left once they knew they had a "backup" (OW) waiting in the wings.
Not that this makes it hurt any less because it doesn't. But I have to remind myself often of just how weak my H is.
Your H reminds me so much of mine with the "this is the hardest thing I have ever done" and "I am still not 100% certain" and my ALL TIME FAVORITE "I am just trying to be honest". LOL! Affairs and honestly don't usually go hand in hand.
My H for the first time in a long while is starting to contact me again via text, e-mail and now the postal mail with his "charming" ways. Again, it is another illustration of how terribly selfish a WAS can be. You are living with the woman you had an affair with while married to me yet somehow you think it is okay to keep contacting me. It shows ZERO regard for *my* feelings and really is only done so my H can feel better. Sort of like yours is doing.
While it is NOT easy I would just go about your business, don't allow him to linger when he comes in, regulate him to the entryway, be fabulous and really remove him from your life as much as you possibly can aside from issues with your son.
I have dated a few really great guys but after a few dates I always feel terribly conflicted and "not right" so I know I am not really ready. If you are ready then get out there! You will know what feels right or what doesn't.
I guess since you are 46 without kids you don't know what I am talking about!
I don't know what it's like to be a divorced woman with a kid.
I have dated divorced women with kids.
I know that rushing into dating when you are on the rebound is a recipe for poor judgement though.
... my ALL TIME FAVORITE "I am just trying to be honest". LOL! Affairs and honestly don't usually go hand in hand.
Oh cripes. This is my WH's fave line!
Heard this on the radio today and although I have heard it a billion times before, its meaning is different in light of my current sitch (and several others who are going through this!)
The Supremes: Hanging On
Set me free why don't you, babe
Get out my life why don't you, babe
(Whooo-ooooh-ooh)
You really don't want me
You just keep me hangin' on
You really need me
You just keep me hangin' on
Why do you keep comin' around
Playin' with my heart
Why don't you get out of my life
And let me try to make a new start
Let me get over you
The way you've gotten over me
Set me free why don't you, babe
Get out my life why don't you, now
(Whooo-ooooh-ooh)
You really don't want me
You just keep me hangin' on
You really don't need me
You just keep me hangin' on
You said when we broke up
You just wanna be friends
But how can we still be friends
When seein' you only breaks my heart again
And there ain't nothing I can do about it
You know I'm in love
(Set me free why don't you, babe)
Talkin' 'bout love
(Get out my life why don't you, babe)
(Whooo-ooooh-ooh)
You really don't want me
You just keep me hangin' on
You really don't need me
You just keep me hangin' on
Get out my life why don't you, babe
(Whooo-ooooh-ooh)
Get out my life why don't you, babe
(Whooo-ooooh-ooh)
Get out my life why don't you, babe
(Whooo-ooooh-ooh)
Get out my life why don't you, babe
(Whooo-ooooh-ooh)
Timeheals, sorry that I snapped at you but for some reason the way you worded your first warning about dating on the rebound made it sound like I have no discernment and go after jerks like my stbxH...but your second post was much more tactful. thanks.
Citygirl-I am glad you understand that our Hs are being selfish and acting badly but are not evil (just like I hate to say that I know OW is not EVeeel but it makes me feel better to think she is). At this point, would you prefer to be divorced from your H instead of having to wait until November? Sorry to hear you have Lupus. I learned a little about that autoimmune disease when I was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis. I hope you have some good treatment/management in place to help you!
And no worries about staying in the doorway with stbxh! He has to use the bathroom but next week, he can probably hold it for the 20 minutes it will take for him to go "home." I will have no qualms explaining to him that I need him to just stay at the door.
Piano, BD and Gatsby- thanks for checking on me still on my thread over here! I am hanging in there but have realized I need to slooooow down my expectations big time. What I mean is that I truly have to go back to the way I was earlier in this ordeal (when in limbo) where I focused on getting through the day.
It's like "today I will do this with S, make this for lunch and dinner, and do some laundry." I am not going to busy myself too much with filling my social calendar. One activity per week is enough at this time. Need to focus on "healing and dealing" with my reality.
CW- you know, I have wondered if my stbxh is going through an MLC. This stood out to me when I read about it before, but I have to say my ztbxh's parents (mom and stepdad) didn't abuse him and they weren't alcoholics....they just were poor, stressed, hard working, very very religious. His parents divorced when he was 3 or 4. HIs mom moved to a different state so he only saw his dad in the summers for many years. :
Generally the man/woman in crisis has had a terrible childhood. Their childhoods consisted of parents that fought, drank, did drugs, physically and mentally abused their children, emotionally distanced themselves from their children, but most of all abandoned their children.
The more I read about the various "learned" personality traits, the more I'm convinced that as children they were mentally abused to the point of not believing in themselves at all. They felt dirty, unwanted, stupid, worthless, their self esteem was shot to hell. The parents had these children, but really didn't love them unconditionally. Most of the "crisis" children have ADHD, ADD, PA, BPD traits. They suffer from bouts of depression, are very good at lying, picking fights, defensive, and tend to self-medicate with alcohol, drugs, sex and spending.
As I've listened to my friend, I've come to realize that even though "crisis" children appear normal on the outside, they have a constant internal war going on inside of themselves. They have been damaged beyond repair at that young age and it will take many years for them to even feel safe w/another person, if then. They feel very threatened by anyone that comes near them emotionally and physically. They can't handle it because they fear that this person will hurt them or take away whatever it is that they hold near and dear in their lives.
As the "crisis" child grows up, he/she tends to be a loner, stays to him/herself and doesn't trust anyone to enter their safety zone. They tend to not show their emotions except in bouts of anger and are very guarded about their thoughts and feelings. They tend to distance themselves from others. I call this the dance, because when a person gets close to the "crisis" individual, he/she will distance enough to not feel threatened.
You the spouse will never know the real person that lives within the "crisis" person until the two personalities are merged into one. The person you know is actually the shell of a person and he/she is very good at masking what he/she is really thinking at all times.
However, during the major growing times, i.e., 20's, 30, and 40's (mid-life especially), the "crisis" person has another problem. It's at this time that the "crisis" child is starting to raise its ugly head, becomes stronger and wants to voice it's opinions on how that person was mistreated as a child.
It's at this time, that the splintering/splitting occurs. This where the crisis child is doing internal battle with the crisis adult. The battle is a 24/7 emotional roller coaster for the adult. The pain, hurt and anger are there 24/7 w/o any relief. I've sat and listened to my friend speak of many things that happened in his childhood and to hear the hurt and anguish in his voice makes me want to cry for him. It is at this time when the emotional pain becomes so great that the adult can't handle any other stress in his/her life.
This person doesn't trust the spouse enough to speak about the turmoil inside. They feel that the spouse will not accept them for who they are right at this moment. Why? Because that person has now entered mlc and will be there for a while. That person knows that something is terribly wrong and knows that he/she must leave in order to heal those long ago hurts.
If you recall, as children, when we were scared or punished, we all wanted to run away. Remember those times? Well, this is what is happening to your mlcer. They are very scared and very hurt and they only thing that they know how to do is run, as the "crisis" child comes on the scene. The best thing that this person can do for himself/herself is to go see their parents, sit down and actually talk to their parents about how they perceived their childhood and tell the parents just how hurt and angry they are for how they were mistreated. If they don't do this, it will take longer for them to heal.
Last night I went with my friend and had some really good Mexican food- they marinate and grill their meat and it was just so delicious! I had a pomegranate margarita (not that great) and a couple of beers later...I wasn't driving! We just had deja vous of me being single before, spending a night out with her while her H watched the kids! Full circle....strange! But we had fun. After, we went back and just relaxed watching Shutter Island which was a terrible movie! Martin Scorcese directed it? I am shocked!
I told my friend that I will never be able to convince myself that stbxh is a bad person. She said she was just really angry and didn't mean it...she just "pities" him.
What finally came to my head is that I believe he is sabatoging his life! But "there ain't nuthin' I can do about it!"
She asked me about dating...I told her that it is a rollercoaster that one day I think it will help me numb the pain and the next day, the thought of cuddling with a different man on the couch or being intimate makes me feel claustrophobic! She suddenly shuddered and said "I can't imagine being with anyone else except my H. I know what you are talking about!"
We discussed how this emotional bond that we make with our spouses is sooo strong! And I said I don't get how I feel so strong when we weren't married that long. She said that having a child with someone tends to intensify your attachment. I wonder if WN has read anything about this in Helen Fisher?
So I don't want any pressure to move on although it would feel so good if stbxh thought I was dating!!!! But I am just going to go into my cocoon and do my best to detach, damnit!!!
Ok one more thing: this is the email I am going to send to my BUNCO group (made of teachers that I work with):
subject: divorce
Hi ladies,
I am sorry to say that stbxh and I are getting a divorce. I will be keeping my last name but changing to Ms. We have shared custody of S.
I hope you all have a relaxing and fun summer and I can't wait to return to work with you in the fall! Take care,
Newmama
What do you think?
De-lurking to say your post about MLC was like a lightbulb going on for me. It fits H perfectly. Do you mind if I copy it into my thread for me to reference to?
Mystik- I got that from Hearts Blessing's sermons- sorry I didn't copy the link or reference her! But of course you can copy it!
I don't think my H had a bad childhood either...his parents worked hard but were never rich...I don't think that they ever even owned a home....just rented and moved many times.
Apparenlty a life transition happens every 7-10 yrs. Becoming a father may have triggered your H...who knows? My H had one in 2001 when he quit his job of 20yrs after turning 40 and the medicated with a OW for a short time and now, 9yrs later he is doing the same thing after turning 50 with OW only this one must not be as psycho (yet) as the first one since it has been over a year.
I have been advised that IF he does want to come home some day, that I have him seek counseling to work on coping skills!!!!
I am going to post something to you on the alt!
Thanks Gabbysmom for stopping by! You sound strong and maybe even healed? I guess we all get there in our own time and I know I will. But it hasn't been a week since he gave the papers to me so I think I have some time to serve...
about the ring- I haven't worn it for over a year! I think I will just stow it away, one day using the diamonds to get a new one made of some other design.
Here is the link to the mlc posting. I believe you will find it to be interesting.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...ge=74#Post67406
CW- thanks for the message and I have been trying to reply but FB is down. (I actually think FB often has lots of malfunctions!)
So I saved the message and will be replying when FB works again!
awesome link though...
You are welcome! We have been having thunderstorms and lost 2 posts when the power flickered on and off...grrr!!!
The link that snodderly posted has some very good information on it!!!!
thanks, snodderly-I will check it out!
CW- I still can't "reply" to you on FB and I want to! I received your last message but the reply button didn't work. if you have email you can send me the address (I have a separate one through gmail- newmama319 at gmail.com) or I guess I can be patient and send you the reply later.
OK am in need of a yummy "filling" for a 2 layer cake that I need to make for my cake decorating class. The icing is just buttercream, the cake is just white. I guess I could add a flavoring to the cake but it can't turn a color!
wow- there is a recipe for kool-aid frosting- what a great idea, seriously! If you want to make a kid cake or you want a strong flavored frosting of some kind, use a packet of kool-aid!
but I think I will settle for the cookies-n-creme- filling idea. I saw a fancy recipe for vanilla pastry creme filling and then an ingenious one using instant pudding but substitute heavy cream for half of the milk! Jello makes a cookies n creme pudding now so there I have it.
just sharing!
uh-oh, snodderly I am sooo sorry! I think the information about midlife crisis that I copied and pasted was from your post, not heartsblessing's sermon! I didn't mean to cite the wrong person.
Thank you for sharing the link. I guess if he ends up marrying the OW like gabby'smom's exH, it doesn't really matter to me why he flipped out. But at least MLC makes more sense than him being abducted by an alien!
Actually, many years ago, they were referred to as "pod people" in the alien world. They do become totally alien to us because they are exposing their exact opposites.
Even though he may marry to the ow, you still would like to better understand the flipping of the switch. Even though my xh married the ow, it was very helpful to understand some of what he did during that period of his life.
Knowledge is power and the more you learn, the more you will better understand the crisis.
Hi Newmama--
You're not alone. After all this time of lurking, I think I might finally post my own thread. You've inspired me to share! Maybe we can help each other through this.
Best,
Mrs. A
NM... uncertainty!!! I dont understand at all!!!!!!!! Do they just take a leap of faith and hope that D is the righ decision... and if not then what?!?!?!!?
I am just so sick about it, it makes me so angry!
Be strong...
BD- Yeah. I am wrestling with the fact that he admitted his uncertainty but thinks this is the right thing to do. Still, he is doing it. So I must force myself to accept it and proceed accordingly. Again, it is selfish of him to tell me that. He must have said it about 3 times on Friday night. Holy crap- I married a "fixer upper"- a "project!" I had no idea! He is just taking that leap of faith and sabotaging his life.
"listen all y'all this is SABOTAGE!"
gabbysmom, sorry to hear you are still struggling! But you do sound less "foggy" than I am right now so I see that as progress, don't you? So yes, my goal is to focus on my son and me and not stbxh. I hope the evidence will be posted here in the thread-if I don't let myself write about him then I won't be thinking about him, right?
The only problem is that when I have to do things that relate to divorce, it does make me think of him so I will have to think of him sometimes.
But...today I focused on ideas for setting up my classroom in the fall and ordered some things. (One is a set of "fortune tellers" with questions that the kids can use to "get to know each other!" they will love them and I bet during Fun Friday they will be making them.)
S and I played catch- he can throw a ball now! He also loves to attack pillows and me, when I am lying on the floor!
Tonight I will be watching some shows I recorded, like "Leverage" and "Top Chef!"
I just read some of your sitch, and it completely stinks, but you really do have a handle on things.
The most important thing to do is stay busy and focus on S. It is a lot harder to deal with things in the summer when you have time off from work, but continue to do what you are planning and I believe you will be doing awesome in no time.
With S, look forward to the next year. I think the 2nd year has been my favorite with my S. I loved watching him learn and problem solve, maybe being a teacher myself made it even more fun. Plus I think this is the age where you really get to see his personality shape and that is so fun!
Enjoy your summer and have fun with S because as you know, once school starts...you will be busy.
Citygirl-I am glad you understand that our Hs are being selfish and acting badly but are not evil (just like I hate to say that I know OW is not EVeeel but it makes me feel better to think she is). At this point, would you prefer to be divorced from your H instead of having to wait until November? Sorry to hear you have Lupus. I learned a little about that autoimmune disease when I was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis. I hope you have some good treatment/management in place to help you!
I used to really regret agreeing to this legal separation but I am trying not to live with regret as it is what it is. Our case was complicated as I live in a "fault" state and there were many, many particulars. When my H first left me I asked for a legal separation that he declined and went right to the divorce. Fine. Our case lasted 24 months and a few days before the trial was set to start he asked me for the separation instead of the divorce. Lots more happened but that is it in a nutshell. My H actually petitioned the courts for our legal separation to last until Nov. 19, 2013 but I do have the option to file after Nov. 19th this year.
I know a big part of the reason he wanted such a lengthy separation was for health insurance purposes. As long as we are legally separated I can stay on his work insurance. If I divorce him he will have to pay for my insurance out of pocket. For now it is a practical matter to me. I haven't really decided what I will do come Nov.
Yes, lupus is a very difficult disease to live with. I am sorry you have RA which I also know can be tough. I get labs every four weeks, seem rheumatologist every four weeks and my nephrologist every eight weeks in addition to taking two cocktails of medication each day. I do my best!
Oh, I forgot to mention something... you said you were looking for a filling for your cake.
I tried this the other day and it was very good. Take a box of instant vanilla pudding and mix it with sour cream and milk. Then blend fresh raspberries in the mixture and use it to "fill" the layers between the cake. I spread a very thin layer of raspberry preserves before the filling so it would have something to stick to.
It goes good with butter cream (IMO) as it is not too sweet. I also think this would be good with blueberries or blackberries.
nm,
and another thing--I feel like I don't have the option to sit around as long as I need to "heal" before dating. I guess because if I figure if I meet a good guy before my son is like 4 or 5, it will be easier for my son to accept him.
Pfft. Too needy. You're going to wind up with another jerk most likely if you hold onto this sense of urgency.
Bingo.
... my ALL TIME FAVORITE "I am just trying to be honest". LOL! Affairs and honestly don't usually go hand in hand.
Oh cripes. This is my WH's fave line!
Which is why this and so much else is referred to as
Script.
nm,
Where did you read all this? This is my X!, My sitch in a nutshell.
CW- you know, I have wondered if my stbxh is going through an MLC. This stood out to me when I read about it before, but I have to say my ztbxh's parents (mom and stepdad) didn't abuse him and they weren't alcoholics....they just were poor, stressed, hard working, very very religious. His parents divorced when he was 3 or 4. HIs mom moved to a different state so he only saw his dad in the summers for many years. :
Generally the man/woman in crisis has had a terrible childhood. Their childhoods consisted of parents that fought, drank, did drugs, physically and mentally abused their children, emotionally distanced themselves from their children, but most of all abandoned their children.
The more I read about the various "learned" personality traits, the more I'm convinced that as children they were mentally abused to the point of not believing in themselves at all. They felt dirty, unwanted, stupid, worthless, their self esteem was shot to hell. The parents had these children, but really didn't love them unconditionally. Most of the "crisis" children have ADHD, ADD, PA, BPD traits. They suffer from bouts of depression, are very good at lying, picking fights, defensive, and tend to self-medicate with alcohol, drugs, sex and spending.
As I've listened to my friend, I've come to realize that even though "crisis" children appear normal on the outside, they have a constant internal war going on inside of themselves. They have been damaged beyond repair at that young age and it will take many years for them to even feel safe w/another person, if then. They feel very threatened by anyone that comes near them emotionally and physically. They can't handle it because they fear that this person will hurt them or take away whatever it is that they hold near and dear in their lives.
As the "crisis" child grows up, he/she tends to be a loner, stays to him/herself and doesn't trust anyone to enter their safety zone. They tend to not show their emotions except in bouts of anger and are very guarded about their thoughts and feelings. They tend to distance themselves from others. I call this the dance, because when a person gets close to the "crisis" individual, he/she will distance enough to not feel threatened.
You the spouse will never know the real person that lives within the "crisis" person until the two personalities are merged into one. The person you know is actually the shell of a person and he/she is very good at masking what he/she is really thinking at all times.
However, during the major growing times, i.e., 20's, 30, and 40's (mid-life especially), the "crisis" person has another problem. It's at this time that the "crisis" child is starting to raise its ugly head, becomes stronger and wants to voice it's opinions on how that person was mistreated as a child.
It's at this time, that the splintering/splitting occurs. This where the crisis child is doing internal battle with the crisis adult. The battle is a 24/7 emotional roller coaster for the adult. The pain, hurt and anger are there 24/7 w/o any relief. I've sat and listened to my friend speak of many things that happened in his childhood and to hear the hurt and anguish in his voice makes me want to cry for him. It is at this time when the emotional pain becomes so great that the adult can't handle any other stress in his/her life.
This person doesn't trust the spouse enough to speak about the turmoil inside. They feel that the spouse will not accept them for who they are right at this moment. Why? Because that person has now entered mlc and will be there for a while. That person knows that something is terribly wrong and knows that he/she must leave in order to heal those long ago hurts.
If you recall, as children, when we were scared or punished, we all wanted to run away. Remember those times? Well, this is what is happening to your mlcer. They are very scared and very hurt and they only thing that they know how to do is run, as the "crisis" child comes on the scene. The best thing that this person can do for himself/herself is to go see their parents, sit down and actually talk to their parents about how they perceived their childhood and tell the parents just how hurt and angry they are for how they were mistreated. If they don't do this, it will take longer for them to heal.
Gardener: from Snodderly's postings!
Here is the link to the mlc posting. I believe you will find it to be interesting.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...ge=74#Post67406CG-thanks for the idea for the filling! I picked up some other stuff today before reading it, but I will need to make a cake next week again so I will definitely try it- sounds delicious!
FYI really hate feeling sorry for myself! I despise it! But whenever I see 2 parents together with their baby, I think "I never got that!" and THEN I get jealous and think of the fact that OW and stbxh play house with OUR son! So they get that! Thank God I tolerated his visits to my house for the first 10 months of S' life because that meant way less opportunities for the bonding to occur.
And another thing- I think a way out of my misery over this divorce is to accept that I did not do a good job putting my H priority, and neglected to make anniversaries and Valentines' Day special and really did not do a good job with this marriage. Therefore, it is for the best to just throw it away.
My pampering today was buying the Julie and Julia dvd. I guess I need to return to cooking even though I have no idea what to do with all the food! When I go back to school, I can bring it into the staff room. They eat ANYTHING!
ok back to working out.
nm,
The link didn't work.
I'll search on Snodderly, but in the meantime, got another link?
Thanks.
nm,
And another thing- I think a way out of my misery over this divorce is to accept that I did not do a good job putting my H priority, and neglected to make anniversaries and Valentines' Day special and really did not do a good job with this marriage.
That is a courageous, honest, self-perceptive insight to admit.
You'll be fine.
FYI really hate feeling sorry for myself! I despise it! But whenever I see 2 parents together with their baby, I think "I never got that!" and THEN I get jealous and think of the fact that OW and stbxh play house with OUR son! So they get that! Thank God I tolerated his visits to my house for the first 10 months of S' life because that meant way less opportunities for the bonding to occur.
Pardon me, NM, for just learning how to quote.
I think what you said - "Thank God I tolerated his visits to my house for the first 10 months of S' life because that meant way less opportunities for the bonding to occur" - is what we have to hold on to during times like this of grave disappointment. We didn't do it all JUST for our WHs to come back; we still remained clear-headed enough to do some things that would help to keep us sane no matter the outcome with WH.
Just so you know, your posting all these months has really helped to keep me in line. I (and probably a lot of other lurkers) owe you bigtime!
nm,
and another thing--I feel like I don't have the option to sit around as long as I need to "heal" before dating. I guess because if I figure if I meet a good guy before my son is like 4 or 5, it will be easier for my son to accept him.
Pfft. Too needy. You're going to wind up with another jerk most likely if you hold onto this sense of urgency.
Bingo.
I second this or third this or whatever with resounding emphasis
and
I have 2 boys who are going to be 13 and going to be 12. Their dad has had no contact with them since they were 2 and 3. I married AJ when they were older (5 and 6) and he left when they were in 2nd and 4th grade. I waited for several years before meeting and committing to COri. ANd tey love him and he loves them
I have an almost 12 year old, and almost 13 year old, a 7 year old stepdaughter and a brand new 1 year old baby girl.
It's hard work but I love every second of it...
if you are with someone because of time or lonliness you aren't going to be happy
you need to be with someone because of who they are and who you are when you are with them
and
about the ring
AJ took my ring and gave it to the little girl he was dating at the time...not sure if they ever got married, not sure if he ever had kids with her but I suspect she was pregnant
I am only sure of the fact that he was no longer good for me or my children
OR...got to page 5 on NM thread and snodderly posted the link in her post
weird! I copied and pasted the link but it didn't work! I clicked on the one from page 5 of my thread from Snodderly and it did work.
ok another vent--my friends and family just want me to accept this already and be ready to date. They don't understand! I told them the dangers of rebound dating. I also said that I was just given the papers 7 days ago. I think it's because I have been separated for so long.
One of my friends thinks it will help me accept it faster if I demonize stbxh. I refuse to do that- pity is better for me and the person I am. (not that people who demonize their exes who cheated on them are bad, but I am not good at getting angry at people).
So tonight I changed the drop off a little- instead of letting stbxh put S in his crib, I just took him from him at the door and told him I will put him to bed from now on. He seemed choked up, but who cares! I told him about S pictures on Wed and then said goodbye. We talked for 30 seconds. Get used to it! He still has a key to the house so I heard him lock the door behind him when he left. At least he has been ringing the doorbell (well, he has S ring it) when he drops him off instead of letting himself in.
Thank you for your success story of finding a great guy, figgeroni!
And Mrs. A, I was hoping my approach was going to result in saving my marriage but glad to hear the posts helped you anyway!
I get strength and comfort from reading others' threads (i.e. "lives") so I think we all just help each other without realizing it!
Another friend of mine said he thinks forums are like "halfway houses" for helping people get through the trauma. He said he hasn't posted on SI (the other forum I initially joined) for months because he doesn't feel the need and said he thinks that is probably typical for us when we start to thrive and accept our sitches. Makes sense! BUt I am grateful to the people who visit and come back to give updates. I will!
Hey NewMama,
Visiting in your new digs!
You must be a phenomenal, well-loved teacher. You've been on this forum less than a week and already have 8 pages of posts from a dozen people. Your guy may have flipped out and gone AWOL, but everyone else loves you just fine!
Just been reading Snodderly's link. Thanks for posting it, but yikes! This is exactly what I've been learning from Larry's course. Who knew there were so many messed up people walking around? Scary!
I've watched two women go through divorce close up, both because of OW. I remember wondering why they just didn't snap out of it and get on with their lives.
Now I get it!
You need time to grieve, time to adjust.
So take all the time you need and don't listen to anyone who hasn't been through this, as well-intentioned as they may be.
It was like I thought I knew all about how to handle children...until I had one!
Opt for the voice of experience. Take your time, set your own pace.
Seeing Red, you are so sweet! I am going to take some time to study other's threads in this forum because I think it will help me see "where" I am going.
The Cainer horoscopes are amazing...thanks for the recommendation, Red! So funny because when I woke up today, I thought "my goal is to achieve indifference...I want to feel nothing...I want to pretend that there is no stbxh and only S and I...." and here is the horoscope for today! (Pisces)
"You have to put something down before you can pick something up. If you are somehow filling a 'gap' with some less than satisfactory substitute, you may never get a chance to replace it with the real thing. Sometimes, it's better to have the right kind of nothing than the wrong kind of something. Let the Solstice Comet act as your reminder to create a suitable space in your life and prove the old adage that, 'nature abhors a vacuum.' As soon as there's an absence, something positive will come rushing in to fill the void."
Cainer is AMAZINGLY accurate, isn't he? It's weird - I'm not much of an astrology person, but after I bought my profile and have found a number of coincidences, I keep the printout handy.
One of the ones that made me LOL was something about a "difficult situation that began in March will be resolved by August 26th." That would be my harrassment trial instigated by OW having me arrested. It was scheduled for August 12th, but I thought, "Close enough." Last week, I got a note from the court that it had been rescheduled for August 26th. Now that's just FREAKY!
Off to take kids to library. Back later!
KerryK lives in OR! So do I! Ok who else????
I ordered a profile too! Some of it is kinda confusing, but it is so fun! Thanks Red!
Been busy running DS13 to doctors. I'll fill in on my thread.
Glad you are trying to keep your PMA. Some days it is too easy to fall into victimhood! I had one of those days Sunday...yuk...
I ordered a profile too! Some of it is kinda confusing, but it is so fun! Thanks Red!
You're welcome! What I like best is that it's POSITIVE. I won't stake my life on it of course, but it's nice to hear stuff like, "A troubling time is coming to an end" and "Strong Venus means your love life is about to take off." Would that it were true!
Glad you are trying to keep your PMA. Some days it is too easy to fall into victimhood! I had one of those days Sunday...yuk...
Sorry to hear Sunday was so rough for you! Holidays are always bad...
I have bad days, too, but working with Larry has improved my outlook SO much. He had me think back to times when I felt powerful and in control of my life, and he had me write those down as well as "love movies" of WH's finest moments. I revisit those any time I'm glum and it really helps.
What's more, it's confusing the HELL out of WH, who keeps hitting me with the same kind of pot shots that would have sent me to bed with a glass of wine 2 months ago but seem to bounce off me like I'm made of teflon now. He, he, he.
Will visit you on your thread to learn about your son. Hope all's okay...
cw,
Thanks. That did the trick.
The Seven Stages of Grief for Divorce
Many sudden and unwanted changes in life can cause grief. A divorce can be sudden or the result of a longer procession of feelings during a marriage in which some or all of the stages of grief are experienced before the divorce. In either case, experience with the seven stages of grief can aid in coping with the more hurtful aspects of a divorce.
Shock or Disbelief
The initial realization that a marriage is or might be beyond any hope of saving will affect individual members of a family differently. Some may be emotionally stunned, unable to form or express strong feelings about the divorce or any other aspects of their life. Others may refuse to believe it, insisting instead that the process of divorce is simply a prolonged dispute. This stage may be brief, or may last several weeks, according to the Launching New Lives website.
Denial
Following disbelief, a family member may actively deny or literally forget that the divorce is taking place. According to Anger Management Resources, this is an unconscious attempt by the mind to protect an individual from the pain of loss. A spouse may make new, repeated attempts at romancing their partner in an unconscious attempt to prove that the threat of divorce is not serious. Children may observe brief moments of amicability as signs that the divorce was never real. Some may even tune out unhealthy behavior, focusing only on the relationship's positive aspects as signs that divorce is not a serious consideration.
Anger
Any member of a family that is affected by divorce may feel personally affronted and blame others. Anger is a common response when faced with significant decisions in which a person has little or no perceived input and will have a potentially negative effect. These circumstances often generate feelings of helplessness, which can fuel an individual's anger.
Bargaining
An individual will attempt to make a deal to change the situation. In general situations involving grief, this stage often involves a bargain with God. Bargaining is not a prevalent stage in all occurrences of grief, but is listed on Stages-of-Grief-Recovery.com as a common stage in divorce. While divorce-related grief can involve an appeal to a higher power, bargaining is often prevalent in promises by one spouse to change the behavior and habits, or by children changing their behavior in hopes that the parents will reward them by staying together.
Guilt
The Springboard Group lists guilt on the Launching New Lives website as a feeling that one did not do enough to prevent a loss. During this stage, affected individuals begin to examine ways in which the divorce is directly attributable to their actions. Children may blame stress caused by their behavior or performance at school. A spouse may recall ways in which they could have made their partner happier, avoided arguments or made greater contributions to the marriage and the family. Stages-of-Grief-Recovery.com notes that this stage is often accompanied by the unattainable wish to turn back the clock and do things differently, fueled by the griever's sense of regret and self-blame.
Depression
The state of chronic, debilitating sadness is a common and natural reaction to loss. This stage of grief can manifest most notably in teenagers affected by their parents' divorce, as the physical and hormonal changes they experience during puberty leave them more susceptible to depression than adults. Depression can also manifest as a constant state of reflection on times when the marriage was happier and divorce was not imminent, according to the Springboard Group.
Acceptance and Hope
Coming to terms with the reality of a divorce will bring the affected family members to a realization that their lives have been changed in significant, unalterable ways and that things will never be the same again, but that life will go on and they have hope of finding happiness in other ways.
Read more:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/129455-seven-stages-grief-divorce/#ixzz0rdPn9JKh
Good ol' livestrong. I searched for "accepting divorce" and one link was just so "harsh!" It was from about.com and said something like "the divorce is a reality. deal with it! the sooner you face it and accept it, the sooner you will heal." lol!
Then I found 5 stages of grief. Yet it didn't quite do it for me. Well. "steps to accepting divorce" yielded the article from livestrong.com. I found it interesting that guilt a step and yesterday I posted how I recognized the things I did wrong.
I do appreciate the fact that we are "allowed" to spend as much time as we need going through this process and that others can't talk us into or force us to get through it faster. Luckily for me, I know I don't want to stay suspended in grief but do want to give myself permission to stay in each stage (they say they are not consecutive) for as long as I need.
Now another thing I feel guilty about is the fact that I was not with my stbxh for very long--how dare I suffer so much when others have been married 10-20+ years and endured a divorce?!
It kind of think that my order was: (from 3/10*-5/10)
*my stbxh initially said he made a decision to divorce on 3/26 but expressed doubt; a few days later I told him that I could see his mind wasn't made up and tried to sell him on reconciliation while also telling him that if he decided to D, I would move on. But on 4/28 it still shocked me when he said he wanted to.
bargaining, hope/denial, anger, shock, depression, anger, hope/denial, shock, guilt
the next huge hurdle is acceptance. I would like to take a break and experience "white noise" or "nothingness" or "numb" before I deal with acceptance.
Tonight after I dropped off S, I went and sat at the bar at a local pub, ordered a yummy microbrew (2) and some pizza. I purposely did not bring anything to distract me. I counted glasses, eavesdropped on conversations, and tried to think of anything else but my impending divorce. When my pizza arrived, the older gent next to me struck up a conversation. At the end he said "nice talking to you!" and it just felt good.
I used to do the same thing once a week before I was married, but worked on a crossword.
Oh yeah and 2006 pinot noirs are terrible! SO SOUR! 2007 not that great either. But the 2005s are super yummy and the 2008s aren't bad.
the 2005s have tasted delicious every year since 2005~
Mila posted this in Marked&Healed's thread in MLC:
Maybe we had to separate to give us both time to find/re-find ourselves and to learn from this experience and get ready for the next chapter of our lives. Be it together or separate. I still feel that we will be together...eventually....but I'm not waiting for it....I'm living my life and I will let God surprise me.
In the mean time I will treat H with compassion and try to understand that he is only human and that he is also in pain and struggling and making mistakes but that he is doing his best and can't do any better while in MLC.
WOW, this is EXACTLY how I am feeling and am thinking it will be what helps me to finally accept the divorce and the fact he is moving in with OW "officially."
Frankly, if God has another plan, so be it. But I am not opposed to reuniting in the future if we are both single and he is truly remorseful and willing to heal himself.
And if me thinking this is due to "shock/disbelief" or "bargaining" who cares? It is comforting me now and I know I won't be stuck forever!
Maybe we had to separate to give us both time to find/re-find ourselves and to learn from this experience and get ready for the next chapter of our lives. Be it together or separate. I still feel that we will be together...eventually....but I'm not waiting for it....I'm living my life and I will let God surprise me.
I feel the same exact way most of the time. Im starting to believe this is God's plan for me. Told H that, he sounded a bit sad and hurt... but i do.
BD I don't get why that would make your H sad! It gives him an "out" kind of...like go ahead and do your thing. We'll be together in the end!
Well I just finished working out and watched 2/3 of Julie and Julia. It's funny bc it's the 3rd time I've seen it yet I have a different perspective now.
Of course it inspires me to cook! (for who again?) but now I am looking at Julia Child as inspiration for marrying a terrific man later in life who adores her and supports her. And she started her career later as well! And she wasn't afraid of looking foolish or making mistakes either.
And Julie looks so self centered to me, who took her loving and devoted husband for granted. Of course he "walks away" for a bit because of it and they reunite in the end. But I see how she discounts his opinions and puts herself first.
Also on Memorial Day weekend I watched "When Harry met Sally" (one of my all time favorites...used to be) and found it to be so obnoxious! I guess what bugged me was how uncomplicated their lives were. Sure they met and married each other after divorce and being friends first...ideal. BUt no kids. lol! I am jaded right now!
ok off to shower and watch The Daily Show... a fun way to catch up on the news!
Re your grief work FWIW:
A great book that I am using is "Rebuilding when your relationship ends" Bruce Fisher
Issues we have are broken down into 19 building blocks. Each one is discussed and you are to determine if you have issues with it or not. Helpful 'assignments' are given, things to think about. The blocks start with denial, fear, guilt, etc and work up to openess, love, trust, etc. I guess I am finding it a good way to examine my marriage, change what didn't work for me, what held me back, what I want in future, and so on....
The Cainer horoscopes are amazing...thanks for the recommendation, Red!
Is this Jonathan Cainer? I'm not one for horoscopes and things like that..but guess what, I read them religiously!
Thanks for the recc, Whatnow. I WILL check it out when I feel like preparing for dating! I definitely need a manual for relationships!
For now I just want a break from reading self help/ relationship stuff other than the grief article I googled, lol!
I guess I am going to need to explain to stbxh that I am in pain and would appreciate the bare minimum when it comes to talking. I could use some help phrasing it...ideas?
You see again, last night in the parking lot he starts off "I've had such an incredibly hard, long day..." and I used to ask about it but of course I am not going to do that now! @$$hole! And he wants to be all nice and jokey with me. Give me my space!
I just said "we weren't waiting long." He tries to make other conversation about S. I say "he's doing fine. Ok see you tomorrow."
Then this morning, I take the overnight bag from him so he can't walk over to the laundry room and put the clothes there (I don't know why but he has always done this--he doesn't need to take the clothes out! wth?). When I take the bag he made that noise he does when he is uncomfortable. Next, he lights up and tells me his new cell phone is arriving today and he used the address at the house, but I need to sign for it. I quickly ask
"now when are you moving again?" because change your flippin address already! He sees I am not interested in talking about his phone and am not that pleased about needing to sign for it. I say "I should be here." then "Ok, bye."
So my point is he wants me as a friend. He doesn't have too many other than OW and he cut off his friends once he started his A. I strangely feel a little bad for him but luckily my mental health isn't that messed up where I am giving him my friendship while he is divorcing me. No more DBing, only self preservation at this time. So I can feel a little bad but not enough to sacrifice my needs.
Maybe I can just email him. I wish I didn't have to say anything. Is his "EQ" truly so low that he DOESN'T GET the magnitude of what he is doing to me? How can he be so dense? I am just baffled.
I wonder if I should ask stbxh to come to a counseling session to discuss co-parenting. For some reason I feel like having someone "facilitate" a discussion between us.
I wonder if I should ask stbxh to come to a counseling session to discuss co-parenting. For some reason I feel like having someone "facilitate" a discussion between us.
I think it is agood idea. Will he agree?
NM,
My STBEX who is the WAW told me that her IC gave her a name of someone for co-parenting. It was agreed when W left that we would treat and discipline the kids the same way no matter where they stayed.
During our "meeting" she brought that up again and I said we already discussed that. I don't think it would be beneficial for my situation, b/c I know I am a great father and parent to my kids.
It's almost like me suggesting to W that we go to MC and W saying I don't need someone to tell me the way I feel.
If she wants to go then I won't stop her, but I feel(and AM) handling the situation just fine with the kids.
PS, Thanks for taking the time the other week to post in my thread. I get the appaissal back tonight!
Thanks for both of your replies! First, I think stbxh would be open to meeting with a counselor because he was last year.
Second, I guess if I ask him, I should clarify what I mean so he doesn't get the wrong impression and think I am criticizing his parenting! Thanks for pointing that out, gr8!
Here is what I mean: agreement for what we talk about, how the interactions go....and I don't even know what I mean right now. It's like agreeing we will contact the other if A happens. When we exchange S, we will inform the other of B and C.
I don't know. I am just rambling. Still looking for a thread where the spouses are co-parenting and being civil to each other. I keep seeing where the exwife is being demanding and unreasonable or the exH abandons his kids and barely shows up... so maybe it is unrealistic to think people can share a kid 50% each and be civil after divorce.
Hey NM,
I just skipped from page 3 to page 10. So I missed some stuff. But I see that you're thinking about asking stbxh to go to co-parenting counseling. And it seems like you're not sure "what [you] mean right now."
Yeah keep checking the threads and see what you think. I would just say go into it knowing what you want to get from it! It seems to me like your exchanges with stbxh are already civil, but maybe I missed some things on pages 3-10.
Hope all is well!
I often wonder the same thing about my H. How on EARTH he can be so dense and thoughtless. Ever since he moved in with OW (about two months ago) he has been sending me random texts wanting to come over for dinner (note: he has not been allowed to step foot in my house since May of 2008), telling me he is thinking of me and he thinks of me often and so on.
Now he has taken to writing me little stupid "hope you are well" notes when sending my spousal maintenance checks each month where in the past he would just send the check.
Honestly, he has no regard for my feelings and has never taken the time to see things through my lens. Sounds like your H is in the same place. They made the tough hurtle of getting the D papers done, now they are moving in (or have moved in) with OW and don't seem to realize their "tough task" is done. We have the enormous task of not only rebuilding but rebuilding with the knowledge our H's are living with their mistresses.
I think you are doing the right thing by being polite yet brief and denying him any small talk. When his phone does arrive I would text him and let him know the phone is there, you have signed for it but any pkg's or mail in the future will may not come to your home.
My H, after two + years has not bothered to change his mailing address. For a long time I sent him his mail. Not anymore. He has mail here piled up for months. If he wants it he can contact me and ask me when I am available to give it to him.
It's not about being harsh but for me it's about living in reality. I am not a postal station. I will not accept cute/romantic/intimate texts from a man that has a live in lover even though that *man* happens to be my H.
You can do all this with a breezy smile but eventually the dynamic has to change and since our H's don't seem to "get" things will change due to their choices, it is up to us to get that ball rolling.
Still following. I know what you mean about the divorce stages of grief. I haven't been served papers yet but already see that I am going through many of those stages.
Still looking for a thread where the spouses are co-parenting and being civil to each other. I keep seeing where the exwife is being demanding and unreasonable or the exH abandons his kids and barely shows up... so maybe it is unrealistic to think people can share a kid 50% each and be civil after divorce.
We're doing it.
Geronimo, thanks! But aren't you guys also romantically involved? The lines are a little blurry and that is something I am aiming to do...
1)see stbxh and think "here is my son's father." and nothing else! NO ROMANTIC FEELINGS! NO ANGER! NO HURT!
2)be able to discuss issues around raising S without feeling resentful and the above
3)not show S any of my negative feelings toward stbxh (so far, I am achieving this only step of the 3!)
4)no friendship. let's face it, stbxh is just a Baby Daddy.
Citygirl when I see stbxh tomorrow I give him his phone (he is picking up S) and then I will ask him if he has filled out the change of address form yet because I don't think it's appropriate for him to be receiving mail at the house anymore.
Your H is texting you/writing to you because he wants to keep you hooked.
I wonder if I should ask stbxh to come to a counseling session to discuss co-parenting. For some reason I feel like having someone "facilitate" a discussion between us.
i think its a great move and can't hurt. It will help you talk about anything you have inside that you need to express! and the same for him...
I often wonder the same thing about my H. How on EARTH he can be so dense and thoughtless. Ever since he moved in with OW (about two months ago) he has been sending me random texts wanting to come over for dinner (note: he has not been allowed to step foot in my house since May of 2008), telling me he is thinking of me and he thinks of me often and so on.
Oh Wow! City Girl...
reminds me of that movie (didnt watch it, just saw previews) with Alec Baldwin and Merrel Streep. the one where they are divorced from each other and years later have affairs w/ each other!
Is his "EQ" truly so low that he DOESN'T GET the magnitude of what he is doing to me? How can he be so dense? I am just baffled.
I often wonder the same thing about my H. How on EARTH he can be so dense and thoughtless. Ever since he moved in with OW (about two months ago) he has been sending me random texts wanting to come over for dinner (note: he has not been allowed to step foot in my house since May of 2008), telling me he is thinking of me and he thinks of me often and so on.
Honestly, he has no regard for my feelings and has never taken the time to see things through my lens. Sounds like your H is in the same place. They made the tough hurtle of getting the D papers done, now they are moving in (or have moved in) with OW and don't seem to realize their "tough task" is done. We have the enormous task of not only rebuilding but rebuilding with the knowledge our H's are living with their mistresses.
When they're in THE FOG, it's all about them, ALWAYS. They can see to the end of their nose. Period. They've made their decision, they've moved on with their life, and that's all that matters to them. Everyone else be damned.
Years from now, when their current relationships are kaput and they awaken from the FOG with a string of angry people in their wake, then maybe - just maybe - they might come around.
My FIL, who walked away from his family in his mid-40's, FINALLY started acting like a decent guy in his 70's - 25 years later! I don't know if he's a slow learner or realized his appointment with St. Peter was coming soon, but I've only just been able to sit down with him and have a conversation that didn't revolve around HIM in the last five years or so. He's actually a decent guy NOW. Too bad he wreaked so much damage with all his selfishness THEN...
It's easy to see where my WH gets it from!
Geronimo, thanks! But aren't you guys also romantically involved? The lines are a little blurry and that is something I am aiming to do...
1)see stbxh and think "here is my son's father." and nothing else! NO ROMANTIC FEELINGS! NO ANGER! NO HURT!
2)be able to discuss issues around raising S without feeling resentful and the above
3)not show S any of my negative feelings toward stbxh (so far, I am achieving this only step of the 3!)
4)no friendship. let's face it, stbxh is just a Baby Daddy.
We’re not romantically involved.
We are still working through the crap between the two of us.
But we are able to be respectful, work together regarding the bugs, and we’re doing the 50% thing with a daily handoff. She has the day, I’ve got the night starting at 6:00.
Speaking of which – need to motor…
Following along in your thread, you are what I aspire to.
So my point is he wants me as a friend. He doesn't have too many other than OW and he cut off his friends once he started his A. I strangely feel a little bad for him but luckily my mental health isn't that messed up where I am giving him my friendship while he is divorcing me. No more DBing, only self preservation at this time. So I can feel a little bad but not enough to sacrifice my needs.
I know exactly how you feel. My H has been doing the same thing for the past few weeks. My H was very few friends as well. My H emailed me the other day- "I hope you had a nice week off and your father is doing well". My H hasn't moved in with OW but has gotten his own apartment. The other week after closing on my mortgage he asked how I was doing..I responded a quick 'good'. I asked how he was and he responded...'ah'. Then he proceeded to ask if he should call my family and say something..he never had a chance to say anything to them. WTF.
As he was over tonight picking up some more of his stuff..he asks "How is your father doing?"..I told him that we can't be friends...he asked why. I just said that we can't.
He sent a text later saying that he felt lousy.
It is so difficult. I feel like being friends with the stbx is saying what he did was OK. It isn't OK. What qualities do they have that you would want in a friend? Honesty- nope. Respectful- nope. Loyalty- nope.
It is so hard to accept that a man you were sharing your life with, sleeping with, raising a child with (in your case)..has become a complete stranger. I think the situation could be so different if our H's walked away and treated us with respect in the process perhaps.
On the other hand...it isn't healthy to harbor resentment..and forgiveness is for us too. right? At least this what I read about all the time. Self preservation. I can relate.
Newmama,
Legally, you can't file a change of address with the USPS for your H. Only he can do that.
You can, however,write "No longer at this address" on his mail & put it right back in your mailbox.
lolawar,
I feel like being friends with the stbx is saying what he did was OK. It isn't OK. What qualities do they have that you would want in a friend? Honesty- nope. Respectful- nope. Loyalty- nope.
Pretty much exactly what I told X when she approached me to be friends about 6 weeks after our D.
On the other hand...it isn't healthy to harbor resentment..and forgiveness is for us too. right?
Exactly right, but forgiveness + no resentment does not = friends in my book.
Geronimo, sorry that I misunderstood! Ok well now I need to ask you how you mentally and emotionally deal with coparenting right now but I will also go back and read your thread in case you don't want to repeat yourself!
Lola-what a relief to hear you also feel kinda bad for your ex but at the same time told him you can't be friends. I DO want to get to forgiveness (the gift we give ourselves!) but my old way of forgiving people was to take a break from them, process what happened, see things from their perspective, then voila- forgiveness. Obviously I need to find another way to do it since "taking a break" from seeing stbxh is not possible.
Mystik, I haven't visited your thread in awhile. I hope you are doing better! Umm...you might want to also read Confused Wife and WhatNow's thread to see how to deal with kids and interactions with their estranged husbands who are with OWs.I really have been humbled by their situations and admire the dignity in which they handle themselves. Confused Wife has to see the OW too often for my comfort! Whatnow's H is trying to strike up a relationship with her again while he is still with OW! And of course SeeingRed has been dealing with this crap for way too long but staying optimistic, being an awesome mom to her kids, and sharing everything she is learning with us!
Gardener- luckily for me, I don't foresee any issues with stbxh not changing his address in a timely manner now that he has an "official" residence. It is confusing to me though that he didn't change his address when he rented that empty apartment for 6 months...what a waste of $800 per month! BUT IF I AM WRONG and stbxh stalls on the address change, I will remember to not break the law and do it myself!
Red, your example of how your FIL started being decent at the last hour of his life still shows that people are capable of changing. We know they can change for the worse, but apparently they can for the better. It is a strange phenomenon where the wayward spouse is so self absorbed that they are not able to empathize with their betrayed spouse- especially in my stbxh's case where his ex wife cheated on him! So wtf?!
ok so something veddy interrresting happened (and sad) with my friend's parents. This is my friend, C, that I was talking to the other night who was just appalled that I had any hope for reconciliation still (I MEANT WAY DOWN THE ROAD IF HE WAS REMORSEFUL AND I WASN'T IN A RELATIONSHIP- I don't want the foggy stbxh!). She suggested I tried to hate stbxh, because he is just an awful, vile, disgusting human being who is not the man I married and I must be mentally ill to still want him.
OK well when I listened but did not agree, I did not say A WORD because I was just thinking "there is no way that she will ever ever understand because she hasn't been through this and she wasn't married to MY stbxh and she doesn't have my life. She obviously doesn't think people can change for the better"
She was upset that I didn't agree and said "you are so stubborn! Your mind is made up and no one can convince you otherwise!" Yep. She's right. It's my life, my divorce, my grieving process, my problems to work out. But I do love her and know she comes from a good place.
WELL she tells me today that last night, her mother was cleaning out the closet and found a letter from 20 years ago...from some woman who apparently was having an affair with her dad! The letter said something about the woman thinking she could be pregnant and what did he want to do about it.
Now, her dad was in rehab at the time. I guess during her childhood, he was a raging alcoholic...verbally abusive and neglectful. Her mom left him numerous times but stuck with him. Finally, when my friend was in high school, they arranged an intervention and he went to rehab and actually "recovered!" (you know how they say 5% or some low number are successful the first time)
So her mom then admitted to my friend that back then, she suspected he was having one night stands here and there so she got her revenge and slept with a friend of the family but never told her dad. You can imagine how shocked C was to hear not just that her dad cheated, but so did her mom, AND there could be a half sibling of hers out there (probably not)! But my friend was in shock and said that "ah well, it's water under the bridge. My dad was sick at the time. They've been married 40 years! I had no idea about any of this! And they still love each other and are together?"
I said comforting things (I hope) and expressed my shock as well, we hashed out infidelity info and then toward the end Isaid "youknow it is amazing that your dad actually did a 180 and turned his life around. I bet your mom and family never believed it was possible!"
She said "no, my mom always believed in him. I mean she obviously got scared and mad but she loves him and always believed he would kick the habit. The intervention was a last resort but luckily it worked."
Hmmm....so although her dad treated the family horribly during his alcoholic days(what a vile, horrible, disgusting man! I hope you see that I am being sarcastic), he is now a good man and he changed! Time will tell if my stbxh ever does shed his foggy cheating selfish skin, and sadly we will be divorced. But I still think it is possible. Heck, I could be remarried when he comes out of this crisis, but I do believe he will.
Unfortunately, I think my friend learned that life is just not what it seems but I also hope she realized that people CAN change for the better.
NM
Unfortunately, we don't know when our H's will come out of the fog! We can only hope that they will someday for their sake! We know tha WE will be ok no matter what!
Does your friend think a little differently now about your situation?
Re the friends with your stbx...
When my H said he wanted to be friends, I told him I would not be friends with him outside of our marital relationship, AND that my friends do not treat me the way he was treating me (living with his mistress) and stay a part of my life.
For what it is worth.
I just ate three ice cream sandwiches.
I don't think the "H's" will change unless they make the choice to rid OW from their lives for good. Then they have to learn and grow and learn to be on their own. That will take too long and we all have better things to do then wait on them (like for example, eat three ice cream sandwiches).
I don't think my H wants to keep my hooked. I think my H doesn't have the best friend he had in me with OW. She is pretty and I am guessing a good roll in the hay but knowing what I know of her she is not the "good girl" I am. She is not the fiercely loyal person I am. My H will never find another best friend like me. He knows that.
Geronimo, sorry that I misunderstood! Ok well now I need to ask you how you mentally and emotionally deal with coparenting right now but I will also go back and read your thread in case you don't want to repeat yourself!
It's not the co-parenting that's hard - we tend to mostly agree on and are invested in how to raise the kids. And we both appreciate and value the role of the other in the boys' life.
How to cope - well, some aspects haven't changed, I go to work, I come home and I'm with my children.
This particular arrangement started in April when I moved back into the house. We signed the agreement, documenting this arrangement, in May. So - wow it's been longer than I realized - but it not so long.
Some weeks (like right after we signed the papers) we've had little contact. I'd get to her apartment, call, and she's send the boys down. Some weeks, I come to the door, she gets them out the door, and we talk briefly about things we need to. There is still a lot of emotion stirred up, so sometimes it's hard. And then there's weeks like this week where we've hung out as a family. Really need to manage the boundaries. Not sure where we're going to land up ultimately, but hopefully we get into a manageable cadence.
Things go a lot better when we tread lightly. So, have to resolve not to start a fight about bills for example, or give in to the negative emotion. Taking some discipline.
Hi Newmama,
I guess I'll be joining you here soon enough. I'm not spending much time on the forum now, but it's always good to read your posts and I'm glad to have caught up with you. I'm glad to read that you're working on taking it one day at a time. That will help you to stay grounded.
It annoys me that your stbxWH is making such wishy washy statements to you. Basically it boils down to him being bummed out that he can't cake eat, keep all his options open indefinitely, and have the best of all worlds. Call 1-800-WAAAAAH dude. You deserve to be with a man who can take 100% responsibility for his choices.
Glad you're setting boundaries about the exchange of S...it's good practice for you.
(((hugs)))
I don't think my H wants to keep my hooked. I think my H doesn't have the best friend he had in me with OW. She is pretty and I am guessing a good roll in the hay but knowing what I know of her she is not the "good girl" I am. She is not the fiercely loyal person I am. My H will never find another best friend like me. He knows that.
Citygirl--exactly! I guess "hooked" wasn't the best adverb. He wants to keep you around, involved, attached...
and just to clarify- YES- I think the WHs need to end their As before they can change! Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Basically it boils down to him being bummed out that he can't cake eat, keep all his options open indefinitely, and have the best of all worlds. Call 1-800-WAAAAAH dude. You deserve to be with a man who can take 100% responsibility for his choices.
Yes,lmao!And yet he is the one who is closing his "options!" It is what I wanted originally- for him to be the one to have to carry through with the D so he can face what he has done. But I guess I would have had some satisfaction in being the one to divorce him. Hmmm. Well, I am 55% pleased he found his balls and did it.
You know something- it does make me feel WORSE that he is going through with D while being uncertain. I am disposable. to him. ouch! but, alas, he is being such an idiot.
CW- I will ask my friend if her perspective has changed at all but I think I'll wait a couple of weeks first.
WN- good explanation:
I told him I would not be friends with him outside of our marital relationship, AND that my friends do not treat me the way he was treating me (living with his mistress) and stay a part of my life.
I guess I would say "my friends do not treat me the way you have, and stay a part of my life... Besides, why do you want to be my friend? YOU'RE the one who wanted to leave ME!" ok maybe that last phrase isn't so good. But it would be fun to say!
Geronimo- I do see from what you describe that the truth is interacting in a civil way with the ex is just not going to follow the same protocol every time. Yes, like you guys, stbxh and I agree on almost everything so far about S.
But it is realistic for me to expect that the exchanges will be painful or uncomfortable for awhile. We are human, our moods fluctuate, and you mention the discipline that is required to refrain from getting angry or too friendly or sad. I think it will be easier once OW is gone!
my horoscope from cainer.com for Wed- how did he know? (lol!)
Sometimes, things have to get worse before they can get better. Or they have to go wrong before we can see how to make them right. That's small consolation when we are in the midst of a tough time. But when we look back, we often realise why we simply had to go through a particularly difficult experience in order to reach a life- changing conclusion.
Soon, you will feel much happier about something that has lately been making you feel unhappy or frustrated. The future is brighter than you think. A rare 'Cosmic Cross' is coming soon! This 'T-Square' will bring change to the world... and it will bring change to YOUR life. If you're ready for it, it can be a time of unparalleled opportunity.
NM-
I am totally in the same boat as you. My H wants to be friends because he has no friends except OW, except OW is married still and for a while when he would talk to her about me (last summer and fall) all he did was complain about how bad of a friend she was because she wouldn't make time for him. H has completely pushed away all the friends he did have. Many of our mutual friends (specifically the guys) didn't want to here about what was going on because they wanted to be there for H, but now he has completely ignored them and won't talk to them at all.
I think he has a few old friends he has contacted, but they don't hang out much (and they only hang out as much as they do because I asked a few of them to help H out since he had no one and for a while was suicidal).
I just now decided enforce the boundary of not being friends with H (I told him when he first moved that if we Ded I would not be his friend so maybe a reason why he won't file...who knows), and it is hard. For me, H left and abandoned S and I. He sees S only once a month and always with me around. Last year we planned on the every other weekend thing, but he never followed through and slowly he has just lost contact. This week I told him to keep things to just about S, but he never asks about S so he still is trying to be my friend and hold me as someone else said. I am just ignoring him unless it is important.
What has helped me to detach some over the past month, is the fact that he doesn't care so why should I. However you are getting a D and H wants to be in S's life, which means OW also. I don't have to deal with that. I wish you a lot of luck. I really think what will help is just always thinking of STBX as S's dad and that is it. When you think of him as something else, just refocus on him as S's dad. I also love that you don't want to hate him. I have some resentment, but the thing is that I don't hate H. I hate what he has done, but I don't hate him so we share that as well.
Continue to enjoy your summer off.
Thanks awest for encouraging me to not hate stbx! And for posting on my thread. I hope that when you are ready, you will be able to find a terrific guy who will be your son's stepdad.
What is funny is that I was reading SRomeo's thread and he was admitting to how he wants to be able to go off on stbx and speak his mind. Of course the posters are telling him to refrain. But I was thinking of all the very nasty things I have wanted to say to stbxh..too vulgar to post here! I usually daydream about saying them to him when I am driving and it is amazing how many nasty names you can think of when referring to OW!
It also made me realize that when I have argued with stbxh, I haven't said super terrible things but definitely have responded based on emotion. And "steam rolled" or whatever--just horrible communication skills when it comes to dealing with conflict!
Between the 2 of us, I definitely am more verbal and have the tendency to speak in "monologues" instead of "dialogue!" We also both get defensive. So if I noticed that he took care of the laundry, I feel ashamed that I didn't do it and worry that he did it, thinking I was lazy, and felt resentful. Holy crap- now I get that he saw it needed to be done, did it, and PROBABLY HOPED I WOULD APPRECIATE IT! Now of course I was positive most of the time and really did compliment stbxh a lot. I wasn't horrible but am just reflecting on communication areas that needed improvement.
He would get defensive about things like if I said "I thought we were having spaghetti tonight!" if he made hamburgers or something. Now, I truly was just expressing my surprise. Well, he took that as "I wanted spaghetti! Why did you make hamburgers?" and would get defensive. So I would say "no, I mean I don't care! I just thought it was spaghetti." and he would say "well, we can make these hamburgers tomorrow. do you want spaghetti tonight?" arghhhh.....
My C told me that harboring hate (for anybody or anything really) is about as productive as drinking a dose of lethal poison yet somehow hoping it would kill somebody else.
I have learned there is a big difference between anger and hate. And really, anger has it's place in this process. I do still have anger towards my H at times but I don't hate him. I do hate the way he has behaved and that is something I have to work on. I have learned to use my feelings of "hate" towards him and turn them in to compassion. No matter how much he tries to suppress it (and he is masterful at this) he will always have to live with the fact he cheated. He will always have to live with the fact he walked out on a marriage with no discussion. He will always have to live with the fact he had to be so dishonest to so many people to cover his tracks.
Me? I made mistakes (lots of them) but I don't have to live with any of that. IMO that is why my H *had* to change. One individual can't carry all that around and still be the same person they used to be. That is why I don't believe in the "fog". People change for the worse when their actions are so deplorable it is impossible for them to be the same. It's not a fog (IMO), it's the only way they can survive.
I am sure to most people in my H's life they seem the same person they used to see. Very successful at work, funny, smart, thoughtful, romantic easy going and so on. And for a long time he was all those things to me. But once you shred a R (as our H's did) it is impossible to put up two fronts.
Most people here went through remarkable efforts to rebuild their marriages. The harsh reality is as long as their is OW/OM heavily vested in the picture nothing would have mattered. It is terribly sad... not a child, not an incurable illness, not the very idea of breaking a lifelong commitment can make a spouse who feels done take pause.
And we are left with lots of burden and many unanswered questions. The WAS, in most cases, was left with next to no unanswered questions. It's a tough and painful place to be but we all keep trucking.
My 11 yr. wedding anniversary is Sat. The last two anniversaries (while H was not living here and with OW) he has contacted me. This year I hope he has the good taste not to.
Some very wise comments ladies...thanks for sharing. It really helped me to see I'm not the only one feeling anger and it's part of the process. I feel I was done wrong, was taken advantage of, was made a fool of when I did everything out of love to keep us together and change and fix things but none of that counts for anything in her mind. I'm the bad guy, I did this to us according to her when I wasn't even told that she'd decided to leave. As Gardener said not long ago: when the first time they tell you that the marriage is at risk by leaving there's not much you can do.
CG you're right about the hate part, I don't hate my STBXW but as Kelly Clarkson says "I would never wish bad things but I don't wish you well" sums up my feelings these days.
Am trying to figure out my new identity...so for the heck of it, I googled "how to be a good single mom." This article was really good and inspired me:
http://www.fisher-price.com/fp.aspx?st=6...;content=275232How to be a Successful Single Mom
Kenneth N. Condrell, Ph.D.
Child Psychologist
Throughout the country, and the world, millions of single moms raise successful, happy kids. Read on to see what two children have to say about life with a single mom.
“My mom has been a very important person in my life. She has taught me many things and has helped me whenever I needed help. She also helps me when I don’t know what to do. She is very loving and can be funny, too. My mom has taught me how to swim and how to ski and many other things. My mom even takes us on vacations. My mom is very special to me because my parents are divorced. My mom has a lot of energy to live, and I love every moment of it. This is how special my mom is to me.”
“My mom is a role model to me. She barely even yells. My mom is very friendly. She lets me have a lot of pets. I had trouble learning how to ride a bike. My mom wouldn’t let me give up. With a lot of help from her, I learned how to ride a bike. My mom supports me in all the sports I play. She is always cheering me on. My mom is a very hard working woman, and she is my role model.” As I read what these two children wrote about their moms and thought about my own professional experiences counseling single moms, I developed a list of parental behaviors that are essential for single moms.
Successful single moms:
Have a lot of “child” in them and enjoy doing fun things with their children
Avoid yelling and screaming at their children even after a stressful day
Enjoy teaching their children new things, which in turn help their kids feel more competent
Are nurturing and caring
Have a sense of humor
Are friendly with their children but stay in charge of their family
Act as their children’s cheerleader when they compete and perform, in and out of school
Know when to ask for professional help from a counselor when they’re stuck, worried or uncertain about how they’re handling a problem
Are not depressed, bitter and angry over the past
Take care of themselves because they know the whole family is dependent on their leadership, management and coping skills
Are effective disciplinarians so that their children are not only good listeners, but chip in to help with all the work that needs to be done at home
Set aside one-on-one time with each child to help him or her feel more special
Find time to participate in their own adult activities and interests
Raising children is a tough job, filled with many challenges, but all this gets multiplied tenfold when moms do it alone. I hope that these observations will help you succeed as a single mom.
****************************************************************************
I found another article (from ehow.com) wasn't that great so I won't post it but I though the difficulty level was funny!
"How to Be a Confident Single Mom"
Difficulty: Moderately Challenging
Instructions (there were 6 steps!)
Successful single moms:
Idon't know yet what it will be like to come home after working and be with S, but maybe since I won't have him full time, I will truly value the time I get with him. Meaning I won't take it for granted and be all grumpy and worn out. ???
However, there was one glaring thing on the list that I have to ammend!!!
Are not depressed, bitter and angry over the past
IMO that is why my H *had* to change. One individual can't carry all that around and still be the same person they used to be. That is why I don't believe in the "fog". People change for the worse when their actions are so deplorable it is impossible for them to be the same. It's not a fog (IMO), it's the only way they can survive.
I am sure to most people in my H's life they seem the same person they used to see. Very successful at work, funny, smart, thoughtful, romantic easy going and so on. And for a long time he was all those things to me. But once you shred a R (as our H's did) it is impossible to put up two fronts.
Most people here went through remarkable efforts to rebuild their marriages. The harsh reality is as long as their is OW/OM heavily vested in the picture nothing would have mattered. It is terribly sad... not a child, not an incurable illness, not the very idea of breaking a lifelong commitment can make a spouse who feels done take pause.
And we are left with lots of burden and many unanswered questions. The WAS, in most cases, was left with next to no unanswered questions. It's a tough and painful place to be but we all keep trucking.
^^ All of this CityGirl. Spot on.
Geronimo made a list of goals for himself and some totally matched my needs too so I am inspired by him and have "borrowed" some of his to help me:
What I want to focus on now:
- Forgiveness. Letting go of the pain and anger, and keeping it from informing my behavior.
- Building a satisfying life for myself – and this is going to include being able to be alone without dwelling on the sadness, to be able to be complete. For this to no longer be what my life is about.
- Building a relationship with XH ... Maybe that relationship is sparse – meaning we’re co-parents –
- Being steady. Developing resilience. Staying calm. Coping with the bad moments.
And for the record, ICING CAKES IS HARDER THAN IT LOOKS! But the thing that I totally loved about trying to do the basket weave, or the stars, the ribbon, or the shell design us that they take FULL concentration so I didn't have to think about anything else!!
Most people here went through remarkable efforts to rebuild their marriages. The harsh reality is as long as their is OW/OM heavily vested in the picture nothing would have mattered. It is terribly sad... not a child, not an incurable illness, not the very idea of breaking a lifelong commitment can make a spouse who feels done take pause.
Amen!
And we are left with lots of burden and many unanswered questions. The WAS, in most cases, was left with next to no unanswered questions. It's a tough and painful place to be but we all keep trucking.
Yep--this is the case when anyone gets dumped, married or not.
NM, good goals.
dealing with your ex who wants to be friends....
my advice is to cut him off...he starts talking and you cut him off midsentence with something like, you know son and I really have to (fill in the blank...I used run to the grocery store a lot) and then say something noncommital like talk to you later...bye...close door
it looks like this
(ex) oh NM...i ordered this great new phone that...
(NM) I am sure that is cool but darling son and I need to get ready for bed so we will just talk to you later, ok, (closing door) bye. Door closed, locked
don't respond to his texts or if you need to respond with one word...busy
he may ask what is up after a bit and you can say, well you know buttmunch, the deal is this...I have enough friends in my life right now and I think it is just best if we concentrate on being the best parents we can to babyboy. I am not really interested in your daily life unless it pertains to our son. I'm sure your a great person but I lost respect for you when you made the decision to leave and I find it difficult to be friends with people I don't respect
)I needed to work up the courage to say this so then I added)
I am really sorry and I would love to stay and talk about this but I am meeting my friend for icecream and I need to go, ok? Bye
then made my exit
Buttmunch? ha!
ok really need to get my PMA back.
Buttmunch! Hilarious.
PMA: Can you take a short vacation, NM? Something within a day's drive, bring a friend, tour museums, etc? I know you did something similar a while back, but it might be time for another one!
I know I'm counting the days...
ok really need to get my PMA back.
What do you like to do?
Wii made a list on his thread.
Do you play an instrument? Play a sport? Have an absorbing hobby?
Thanks guys! I think the issue is that yesterday, the custody class paperwork arrived in the mail. One envelope for me, one for stbxh. I left it in his pile. Then I asked him "you're getting a change of address this weekend, right?" and he said "well yes. I will." or something like that.
Then he is moving this weekend. I am going to purge his stuff this weekend. It will be a necessary but tough weekend. It will be sad. No getting around it. I know I won't be sad forever. But this still sucks!
And I do lots of things--work out, visit friends, take S to zoo or museum or park or swimming or tumbling, take classes, watch TV, see movies, ai yai yai! I will be ok but am just in a bad mood! grrrrr!
here is something I found looking through research articles about divorce and remarriage- about rebound dating! it is only an abstract:
Abstract
Self-help books often advise readers to avoid rushing into new relationships after a break-up. To date, there is little evidence supporting this recommendation. This paper tests the effects of rebound time, measured as time elapsed between marital dissolution and the formation of a new union, on remarriage duration. Data from the first wave of the National Survey of Families and Households and generalized additive models reveal no evidence of a rebound effect. This finding holds after adjusting for various demographic differences between respondents.
Does the Rebound Effect Exist?
Time to Remarriage and Subsequent Union Stability
Author: Nicholas H. Wolfingera
Affiliation: a Department of Family and Consumer Studies, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, UT, USA
DOI: 10.1300/J087v46n03_02
Publication Frequency: 8 issues per year
Published in: Journal of Divorce & Remarriage, Volume 46, Issue 3 & 4 February 2007 , pages 9 - 20
It is sad. I am going thru the same thing right now. There is no escaping the sadness.
NM- don't pack up his stuff for him. He wants the D..let him sift thru all your memories along with you...it is painful. I have been crying for two days...brief..hard cries that come out of left field.
Start thinking about how you can make some changes to the house to make it feel like yours..instead of 'ours'. Maybe some new paint colors, add some plants, move the furniture around.
Keeping busy is a great thing...but allow yourself the opportunity to just cry. I admire all the women/men that are left caring for children while going thru this process. I can become a shut-in..eat ice cream 3x a day...and sit in silence while not at work...and it is still awful some days. It shows such great strength...putting others needs before your own...wearing a smile on your face when you just feel like crying. It should make you feel good.
Interesting article about the rebound relationship...I guess it depends on what issues existed in the R that you are exiting. If you haven't had time to reflect on them...you are just going to carry them over to the next one. If you haven't had time to heal from the previous R pain...something in the new R may trigger a stronger emotional reaction than what's warranted.
On the flip side, it is nice to have someone admire you and long for you after such a period of rejection...a companion..someone to share your day/life with. It is even nicer to be able to not have that and still feel good and satisfied.
The packing of things is tough.
My H and I were supposed to do it together and then he took off on a vacation with his GF (that HER brother paid for) and let me know via e-mail. Anger does not begin to cover it, lol!
I packed his stuff alright! LOL! I was actually very nice about it. I packed it by category and wrapped it all very nicely. And I used NEON pink labeling tags.
When he returned I piled up his stuff in the hall and told him to come get it.
It would be much easier to pack all of his stuff...it guarantees a quick exit.
For some reason I felt very strongly about not packing up his stuff. I felt like I mothered my H alot- cooked, cleaned, etc. I decided on a new approach.
Grown man..made grown up choices...pack your own bags.
....but in my case- it has prolonged the process.
I just hated looking at his clothes in the closet everyday, reminding me that he was gone. So I packed up all of that and put it in our joint storage unit. I took all my stuff out of storage and brought it back to MY house. I also divided up a bunch of our towels, kitchen stuff, etc and put it in the storage unit. Sure it probably softened the blow for him of having to do it himself, but I know he would never have bothered. I swear he would have just gone out and gotten all new clothes and stuff for his new house. I wanted to do it all before the D was finalized, while I was in a good, strong state of mind. Better that than trying to do it once the D was final and I was sobbing...
I wonder if they looked at people that worked on themselves during the lull of relationship time. I really think there is a difference if you can accept some responsibility in the situation as to leave it all to the WAS. Broken people trying to create new relationships...seems like a no brainer to me.
kat
I don't think the WAS does see any changes during this time....at least not while the OW/OM is still in the picture. They have made a decision and need to continue to validate the decision that they made and the actions that they have taken.
Or at least they won't admit to it.
Perhaps when the other relationship ends..they can look back and see them.
I remember during my H affair..he explained some things he wasn't happy with. I changed the ones that I could...and at least tried to change the ones that I couldn't control...it just seemed like the list kept changing.
During our separation..and while deciding on the D- he said that he did notice the changes but it was too late. I think a lot of people go into panic mode and do try to make those changes that the WAS requests...especially when an A is revealed. If the WAS is heavily involved with OW/OM...they aren't really looking to improve the M..they are just validating why they are leaving.
Going through this whole ordeal..really does force you to take a look at your life..and re-evaluate. The best part about the separation...it really gives you the opportunity to change not only what the WAS wants you to change...but it gives you the opportunity to change what YOU don't like about yourself...
It makes you realize how you were operating on auto-pilot...IMO.
It is sad. I am going thru the same thing right now. There is no escaping the sadness.
NM- don't pack up his stuff for him. He wants the D..let him sift thru all your memories along with you...it is painful. I have been crying for two days...brief..hard cries that come out of left field.
The problem is that at this point, I feel strongly that I have to FACE this and deal with it or else I will be stuck in misery longer. He took his time deciding to divorce me so I can see him taking his time to come and get the stuff and it is holding me back from detaching! And like BobbiJo said- seeing his stuff around the house is just hard...it is a reminder that he isn't here.
Start thinking about how you can make some changes to the house to make it feel like yours..instead of 'ours'. Maybe some new paint colors, add some plants, move the furniture around.
Totally! I want to get a new comforter and change the bedroom for one. I have other ideas but also am not planning on living in the house for longer than another year so it doesn't seem worth it to me to repaint certain rooms. But I can decorate differently! Dang- I wish I hadn't blown my savings on who knows what. I still have 50% left but I think subconsciously I really thought we would reconcile!
Keeping busy is a great thing...but allow yourself the opportunity to just cry.
I think we might be on the same wavelength!
I admire all the women/men that are left caring for children while going thru this process. I can become a shut-in..eat ice cream 3x a day...and sit in silence while not at work...and it is still awful some days. It shows such great strength...putting others needs before your own...wearing a smile on your face when you just feel like crying. It should make you feel good.
Thank you. But I won't lie...I have cried in front of S. Luckily he is a baby. I feel guilty because I remember telling my SIL (when she was devestated from her divorce)to find the strength to not break down in front of her boys. They were 7 and 8 at the time. Now I see that there are times when it just overwhelms you and it doesn't matter where you are or what you are doing- you will cry! Fortunately, I was motivated to get help via anti-depressants and counseling. It has helped a lot!
Interesting article about the rebound relationship...I guess it depends on what issues existed in the R that you are exiting. If you haven't had time to reflect on them...you are just going to carry them over to the next one. If you haven't had time to heal from the previous R pain...something in the new R may trigger a stronger emotional reaction than what's warranted.
I think this is what Kat was referring to. And I was curious about the article but it was $30! I dont' think so. Just the fact that some research out there said "rebounding isn't necessarily a bad thing" was suprising to me so I posted it here!
On the flip side, it is nice to have someone admire you and long for you after such a period of rejection...a companion..someone to share your day/life with. It is even nicer to be able to not have that and still feel good and satisfied.
lola, like you did, I am going to write a list of affirmations this weekend. One being "I am complete all by myself." "I am responsible for my own happiness." The strange thing is that although logically I know that I won't be alone forever, I keep picturing my future as ME and MY SON...half the time. I don't know where this visual is coming from!
CG, it was nice of you to neatly pack his stuff. Did you pick neon labels because it would stand out to OW?? haha!
I forgot to tell you that it must be hard to deal with the anniversary every year! But maybe it won't hurt so much when you are with a great guy one day.
When we were leaving Kansas City and moving to Iowa, we were still separated (before we got back together and then he left again)
Since I was packing everything anyway, I split everything up then. I printed labels for all the boxes on full-size 8.5x11 paper. Dan's were labeled in blue and mine in hot pink, "Dan's Kitchen Stuff", "Bobbi's Bathroom Stuff", etc. His family helped us unpack and a coworker of his, too, who didn't know we were separated. I think he was surprised when he saw how I labeled things!
Oh-- forgot to mention something--the sitch that my friend, C, told me about where her mom found the letter from an OW written to her dad...
turns out it was a joke! Seriously. When she told me I thought "yeah right...what a sorry lie!" but then she explained how her mom confronted him. She handed him the letter. Her dad was like "ok...what is this?" She tells him to read it and explain himself. He gets a few lines into it and then bursts out laughing. He said that it was from an old buddy of his who is just a prankster...her mom knew the guy. He explained that he kept the letter because it was his buddy's way of giving him his new address. So her mom believes him.
My friend told me that her mom decided NOT to tell him about the ONS she had with the family friend, but that her dad reiterated to her mom that he only had the 3 ONS back in the day.
And the messed up thing- I am relieved for her folks, seriously, but when I heard it was a joke, I wanted to BAWL! to CRY! How many times have you heard the betrayed spouses say "Please God,please tell me I am dreaming and this is not really happening." And in this case, it DIDN'T happen! It WASN'T real!
sigh.
Oh-when I explained to another friend of mine that this weeking I was holing myself up, blasting my ipod and dealing with stbxh's stuff, she said it sounded like in the movies.
She pictured me crying when I looked at some stuff, laughing as I looked at other stuff and remembered good times, throwing his stuff around, swearing and shouting, shaking my hands up at the sky "WHyyyyyy??", drinking a pitcher of margaritas by myself and dancing....lmao! Really! It helped me laugh! And I said to her, good idea- I should make a pitcher of margaritas.
But the really sweet thing is that she offered to come and help. I said "THANK YOU BUT I need to do this alone."
Oh yes, cue the cliched movie montage. That also means at some point you pile his letters in a garbage can in your living room and burn them. Then the fire gets too big and you must douse it with the pitcher of margaritas...
OK I know it won't be fun at all it's just that your decription gave me a funny visual.
It is sad, NM. You're doing an AWESOME job. You're very strong.
haha! burning the letters and cards! And what about the ring? Flush it down the toilet? I am not seriously asking- just adding to the cliche movie montage. Yes, it gave me a funny visual too and I might even think of it when I am dealing with the crap tomorrow.
So I am prioritizing my goals that I borrowed (and tweaked) from Geronimo because I had some of the same needs. Plan for tomorrow is to get my affirmations written down from the inspiration of my goals:
1) Be steady. Develop resilience. Stay calm. Cope with the bad moments.
2)Forgiveness. Letting go of the pain and anger, and keeping it from informing my behavior. (SOOOOO DIFFICULT!)
3)- Building a relationship with XH as co-parents – what the hell does a coparenting relationship look like, where one parent lives with a trampy --- dumpster and the other is a bitter old maid? (joking! kinda! I am not an old maid! the rest was true!.)
seriously- figure out boundaries and then discuss with stbxh. it's like laying down the rules.
something annoying- why does stbxh have to be soooo nice? Why not do some displacement of blame or be pissy with me once in awhile?
4) Building a satisfying life for myself with my new identity as single mom – and this is going to include being able to be alone without dwelling on the sadness, the "unfairness" or the jealousy. To be complete without a husband or "lover." For this to no longer be what my life is about.
I like your goals, NM. I know you are a bit ahead of me, but I am not in a dissimilar place...
Good luck with the packing. Just look at his stuff as that; just "stuff" and don't allow yourself to dwell on the memories. I think if you make it too meaningful, you will start to feel pretty low.
You don't need to feel low again to accept what it happening to you, IMHO. You can chose to be brave and say positive things for yourself even when you are doing the job. Courage!
Thanks Piano- you are right- JUST DO IT. Meaning not to stop and reflect too much when I take down the pics or see the cards or the momentos from our dates and the items we picked for our house.
I can cry afterward. I wonder what stbxh will do when he sees his stuff waiting for him tomorrow?
Wishing you strength for today, Newmama.
Trying to be positive here: you're creating YOUR space now! With S. Maybe you can buy some nice pictures or put up new photographs of you with S!
OK a few people now have said to me that they still think there's a chance stbxh might not complete the divorce because he has doubts.
I don't know what to think! I mean I don't know what I am supposed to do. Yeah I know- "what do I want?" well I do want a second chance at my marriage with a remorseful and willing H.
So if I don't want this D I guess it was wrong of me to quickly get the acceptance paper notarized and then sign up for the classes so quickly? He gave me the D papers on 6/14. On 6/16 I handed him the notarized paper. On 6/17 I handed him the custody class registration. Now I am set to start July 6.
But REALISTICALLY--stbxh and OW have packed her crap up, moved it 25 miles to my town to live in the 3 bedroom house that he is leasing with her for a year. I know I have said this numerous times, but it IS SIGNIFICANT.
I have a feeling that stbxh bought new furniture for the place since he is taking practically nothing from our house and she has some crappy furniture (well when I went to her house 2 years ago).
So why is he so stupid to serve me with D papers when he has doubts, and then to give OW a sign of commitment like moving into a house together...that is 25 miles from her old stomping grounds.
It's not like he will tell me next month "oh crap, newmama, what am I doing? I don't want the divorce!" when she has JUST uprooted her things and moved into a house with him?? The D would be over by November. MAYBE something could change by then. But it will be harmful to me to avoid accepting that the D will happen. IMO.
Am I making sense at all? Am I worrying too much about practical issues like the relocation? I have just seen others mention how their cheating spouses feel a sense of responsibility to the OW (I know it's wrong) and they stay in the affair way too long because of it.
OK and the other night I had a dream that on the day (today) that stbxh was moving into his new place, he came over to our house. He parked his trailer (for hauling) in front of the house and made room for a moving truck. Then his mom, grandma, sister and a bunch of strangers (well not to them) showed up unannounced at like 9 a.m.! I was so annoyed and shocked! They were acting like this wasn't happening and we were still a regular family. I told stbxh that he needs to let his mom know this was wrong to do, disrespectful to me. He wouldn't tell her, so I did. She said she understood, but didnt' leave! And the topper to all of this--stbxh said "newmama, it's only for a YEAR! I'll be back!" and somewhere in there he mentioned a different woman's name, likehe was breaking up with OW.
My response here may not be good DBing, but it is MHO based on what I have read in your threads since Jan and on my own experience (which is very different from yours). So take it as a "devil's advocate" type thing.
You are prepared to move on and end this M? Then why not say what you want to say? I would have questioned him on the uncertainty comment. (Yes, I am one of those who thinks of great things to say AFTER the fact!) You have DB'd so well, does he know how you feel? Do you feel you have said everything there is to say? I have thought of doing a "post game recap" with my H however we end up.
Obligation. This topic I did challenge with my H. A few weeks ago he said he felt obligated to OW. OW's help encourage this and feed it, I am sure. (They do not DB!)In all of their foggy, distorted thinking patterns (Google that if you haven't already)WS's do not/cannot see the other side of the coin. (DUH, wife family, vows) newmama, you have DB'd so well, Your H may need reminding you think you should raise your S as a family, not 2 families. OW's string in your H's nose is obvious.
Your dream: Have you spoken up to his family? Told them of his uncertainty? (My H's family is a "follow your bliss no matter what" type so that would do me no good) It is statistically likely that their A will disintegrate within a year once it is in "the real world". Unlike my H, your H is showing some integrity by Ding you before living openly w/OW. (It is twisted, I know, see "distorted thinking patterns") he is also under pressure to do so by OW.
Opposing views are welcome. These are just thoughts, not my firm stance.
I have to agree with WhatNow. If you have reached your end point, then what harm will there be in speaking your mind?
And yes, OW obligation. I am fighting against that, as well.
Thanks WN for your thoughts! OK let me respond and see what you think. Or others. You can challenge me, it's fine! This is soooo freakin' hard!!!!!
When he said he was uncertain, the reason why I didn't say "let's make this work! what are you doing???" is because
1) I have told him that I wanted to save the marriage every time he brought up D in the last year (like 4 times) and again I told him in March. I didn't tell him in April when he told me he has thought about it and wants a divorce.
Thus, I figured he knows what I want.
2)I figured it was too late. He signed the lease. He filed the papers. He was moving in 1 week. I figured it would be unrealistic of me to think he would not want to do this.
3)I thought "you are such an idiot. you are so weak! you are also THROWING ME AWAY WHILE YOU HAVE DOUBTS!" Meaning I am disposable between him and OW. Meaning "well, I could lose newmama in this...but I will divorce her anyway and just throw chance to the wind. I am sure she will be there if I change my mind." It just pissed me off! And HURT! worse than when he left me to begin with!
So I wanted him to actually feel the consequences of his decision.
That is emotional and not what is best, I know.
About speaking to his family- I did speak to his sister. He doesn't listen to his family and never has. So I don't know if it would do any good. I did think about talking to his mom. Maybe that is what the dream was about. I have his grandma's number- she wanted me to take S down to visit them but they live 5 hours away. I haven't called her back.
And stbxh has been living with OW since April of 2009 but I guess the difference is that he got to live far away from his family and me so maybe it was not realistic.
Oh and I guess the other reason why I didn't tell him again that I wanted to save our marriage is that I am tired of being the one who is trying to convince him. I am tird of being the only one who is FIGHTING for this family. I want him to want it.
Not that any of the reasons why I didn't fight more or plead or beg are "right." I am just saying that's why.
I think I might ask him a little more about the uncertainty. I need to figure out the right timing. It is unlikely by 99.9% that he will not move in with OW now.
People can always move out, though....
This will be quick. I gotta get to Costco before it becomes a madhouse. My nephew is flying in today!!! He is 16 and always hungry!
So I wanted him to actually feel the consequences of his decision.
That is emotional and not what is best, I know.
They were all fine reasons at the time.
I have his grandma's number- she wanted me to take S down to visit them but they live 5 hours away. I haven't called her back.
Sounds like a road trip to me!! Get on the phone and plan it today. I assume there is other fun stuff to do with a 1yo there? Photo ops for his 1 year portrait? all kinds of reasons to do it!
And stbxh has been living with OW since April of 2009 but I guess the difference is that he got to live far away from his family and me so maybe it was not realistic.
Did he have a sham apt, too?
Oh and I guess the other reason why I didn't tell him again that I wanted to save our marriage is that I am tired of being the one who is trying to convince him. I am tird of being the only one who is FIGHTING for this family. I want him to want it.
It is exhausting. As far as him wanting it? See distorted thinking patterns! Joni Mitchell (a singer for you youngins') said you don't know what you've got til it's gone. (Paved paradise and put up a parking lot) Great...now that'll be stuck in my head all day!
Not that any of the reasons why I didn't fight more or plead or beg are "right." I am just saying that's why.
Now you know, begging and pleading is never good. How would you speak to a teenager who is hell-bent on making a huge mistake in their life? This approach seems to get-through to my H (but not immediately...I plant seeds, ask rhetorical questions,etc) Days, weeks, sometimes months later, he comes up with these amazing thoughts/ideas.
Write H another letter. (don't send it! and don't read the other one you wrote til after) See what comes out.
TTYL
(((NM)))
What's right? What's wrong? Why is this so hard?
As far as your responce to the D papers...it was the opposite of what you had been doing, which may have thrown him...I think that was good and besides, whether you signed them now or at the last possible minute, they still needed be signed...now the rest, can be drug out for quite awhile IF you want...
Whatever you decide to do as far as talking with your H, be prepared for either way it could go and if goes the D way that you will be at peace with yourself knowing that you did all you could do and are ready to move on...
Oh and I guess the other reason why I didn't tell him again that I wanted to save our marriage is that I am tired of being the one who is trying to convince him. I am tird of being the only one who is FIGHTING for this family. I want him to want it.
NM, I am RIGHT THERE WITH YOU!! As you may remember, WH and I were at a hearing the other day. The judicial attorney said, I remember your faces, but I don't remember your issues. (EYEROLL!!) Then WH's L said, The only real issue is that Mrs. A doesn't want to get D'd and Mr. A does. And the JA said, Oh yeah, I remember. (To me) You know you can't stop this, right?
I was like, YES, DUH!! You told me that 6 weeks ago!!! PLEASE stop saying it!!!!!
I just said yes, but it was SO ANNOYING! And it's not where I am anymore! Like you, I want WH to want me again. When the JA said that, I just felt personally pathetic and like she has no clue. I love Mr. A (soooooo much), but I am NOT going to beg after him forever!
I feel for you, NM!!!
Thanks WN! I have reservations about visiting stbxh's grandma and other side of the family....will need to think about this more. Seems odd since we are getting divorced! Shouldn't stbxh be the one to take S to see his own family?
Yes, stbxh had a sham apartment! How did you know? I mean I knew he was renting an apartment 15 minutes away..but I also KNOW stbxh! He is one to spend every minute with his "lover" whether that was his ex wife, me, or the trampy ho.
I know who Joni Mitchell is! "You're so vain...." And the song you reference was redone by Counting Crows and Michelle Branch (oops- I think that is her name) for the movie "2 Weeks Notice" with Sandra Bullock. Anyway, that song has floated in my head for the last 2 years because of "you don't know what you got until it's gone" and then this part " a big yellow taxi took my girl away..." At first it was me- I felt heavy, intense guilt for taking stbxh for granted...there were times when things were not all rainbows and butterflies, just blah...and I remember thinking "do I love him?" so I felt immense guilt for thinking that, for working long hours, for not talking to him about my needs. And then he develops this attraction to OW and I think "I did this to myself. I lost him! I took him for granted! I didn't know how much I love and need him until another woman tried to take him!" The yellow taxi was OW.
Now I hear the song and think stbxh will be feeling that about me. My yellow taxi hasn't arrived yet.
You make a good point about teenagers. I admit, though, that I never understood them and am afraid of that period in my S' life. But I intend to prepare for it. SO your suggestion of how to get through to teenagers is VERY HELPFUL. I 100% believe stbxh is acting like one. Thank you! I need to absorb what you said and think about how to apply it.
CW you are right that I can drag this out. I feel like maybe I should have waited to sign up for the custody class because that HAS to be done in order for the divorce to be granted.
But let's look at whether me postponing the class matters.
So I take it and am done by August. The divorce still isn't final until October. Theoretically, it doesn't matter that I took the class because 3 months from not, stbxh will see big problems in reality land with OW. So is it logical that if he regrets his decision at that time that he would say "oh well. We already took the class so it means I have to go through with the divorce."??
But if I just reschedule or not take it by October 14, we couldn't be divorced. I would have to pay the $250 to take it later. But heck- who cares if it helps us to stay married? Will it add more conflict to the A if I stall on the D? And will this conflict help the A to end or bring them closer together???
I hope this isn't too convoluted! I am just trying to analyze both paths! Am I making sense?
Wait, Mrs. A--where you live, if you don't want the D, then you can stop it?
But I see your point. Let me know if I am understanding correctly. If you are the one who stops it, but your H still wants it, then what is the point? Like HE needs to be the one to come to that conclusion?
I mean I was thinking along the lines of "set them free, if they want you, they'll return" when I just pushed stbxh to OW and then dropped my pursuit of D last year. I mean I was thinking "if he chooses me out of obligation, I will live with a resentful, unhappy man who won't show me affection or give me the love I need and deserve, no matter how hard I try. I want him to WANT to come back so that he will be motivated and put in the effort to rebuild our marriage."
Although....interesting...IF he is divorcing me out of "obligation" to OW...then he will resent her, right?
Although....interesting...IF he is divorcing me out of "obligation" to OW...then he will resent her, right?
Ooh, good point. Maybe not immediately, but as the relationship fizzles that will be one more strike against the OW.
NM, I CAN'T stop it. There's not a thing I can do to stop it.
But the lawyerly people involved in our case think I'm delusional enough to think I can.
That's why I was so pissed.
I understand the legal process. It's not complicated.
What I wish is that THEY would understand the emotional process!! But why does it seem like everyone involved in hearing divorce cases is happily married? I know that's not true, but it sure seems that way!
So the reason I was mad is that the JA told me the same exact thing she had said six weeks earlier - like it didn't sink in the first time to my thick, lovelorn skull! Yes, I know damn well that I can't stop Mr. A from divorcing me, but I am NOT going to say that I agree with it or that it's all for the best. That's my boundary.
Sorry for the semi-threadjack, NM!!
I wish that it was a law in all states that a couple must attend marital therapy for X amount of time before the courts can grant the divorce. That would probably save so many marriages.
Yes, I know damn well that I can't stop Mr. A from divorcing me, but I am NOT going to say that I agree with it or that it's all for the best.
It amazes me to think you should just bend over if YKWIM. You may not be able to stop it, but why would you make it easy for them?
2nd time today, I am going to refer to teenagers! That is how teens tend to think. (I have 3 at home, and 2steps that are older and 1 MLCer) For example, DD18 wants to move in w/ her boyfriend. I don't feel that is best for her right now. She is an unemployed college student. She says I can't stop her. No, I can't but I will not make it easy for her by continuing to pay for her car, gas, insurance, cell phone, internet access, clothes, food, and so on. She can't understand why I don't at least cover her car and phone! arggghhh
Sorry that turned into a rant...
Mystik, that's a good idea! And they need to make it harder to get married, too--like require people to take a course on the stages of marriage, emotional needs of spouses, conflict resolution, predictors of divorce, impact of divorce on children and something in there about how EAs develop and eventually turn into PAs. Maybe these would be best at the marital counseling required before divorce though since we get married when we're high on love endorphins!
fyi--finished packing 2/3rds of stbxh's stuff. so anti-climatic. Also, I don't feel closure. Denial is a river in Egypt.
I have enjoyed some Bud Light Lime...yummmy! Instead of listening to music, I listened to a recording of 20/20s special on Michael Jackson.
So weird that it was a year ago---I was 5 days away from my due date. stbxh had moved back in and was staying in the spare room, all "just in case" I go into labor. I remember buying a bunch of magazines about MJ to take with me when I went to the hospital on July 5 to be induced.
Mrs. A---of course you can share your stuff on here! All of "our stuff" ends up relating after awhile, you know? ANd I will share some of my stuff on yours because I relate to what you say!!!
I know I am posting a lot but any comments about my child custody class? take it or postpone it?
random thoughts....(by Jack Handy, lol!)
I am attempting to read a little of "Getting the Love You Want" while drinking a rum+diet dr.pepper and "War of the Worlds" is playing on TNT.
I have seen it before...but now, after having S, it is SCARY! versus freaky.
But I was thinking that sometimes, it is helpful to have a gun for times like pandemonium where you have the only car and everyone wants it...a single gunshot and they all disperse.
Don't know what to tell you on the class. Are you truly ready to let H go? Because if you take the class now, it will be that much sooner he can break all legal ties with you.
And Oh my Goodness, yes! Ever since having DS I've been a lot more aware of my mortality. Amusement park rides I used to love being on? Now I spend the whole ride stressing about if it's been properly maintained and praying it won't break down or break apart while DS is on it. And I've developed a fear of heights, to go along with the ride paranoia.
Nm
I have to take a parenting class but have not signed up for it and would be very surprised if H has. Until I have a court date, initiated by H, I am NOT signing up for that class!
Thanks for the funny oneliners on my thread!!!!
Forgiveness as a Mediator Between Post Divorce Cognitive Processes and Coparenting Quality
Authors: Kathryn Bonacha; Esther Salesb
Affiliations: a Indiana University of Pennsylvania, USA
b University of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, PA, USA
DOI: 10.1300/J087v38n01_02
Publication Frequency: 8 issues per year
Published in: Journal of Divorce & Remarriage, Volume 38, Issue 1 & 2 September 2002 , pages 17 - 38
Formats available: PDF (English)
Also incorporating: Journal of Divorce
Article Requests: Order Reprints : Request Permissions
Abstract
This study investigated the mediating role of forgiveness between the predictor variables of causal attributions and offense severity judgments and the outcome variable, quality coparenting post divorce. A mailed survey sent to a sample of 585 separated/divorced parents with minor aged children who had attended a brief educational seminar resulted in a final sample of 135 respondents.
The significant negative relationship between cause attributed to the former partner (r = -.28, p < .01) and quality coparenting became nonsignificant (Beta = -.06, p = .50) when forgiveness was introduced. The results also indicated that greater forgiveness was negatively related to cause attributed to the former partner (r = -.34, p < .001) and less severe offense judgments (r = -.22, p < .01). A strong positive relationship was found between forgiveness and quality coparenting (r = .53, p < .001).
The results have implications for practice, advocacy, and education. Forgiveness represents one potentially useful focus of intervention for making a transition towards a quality coparenting relationship.
Must.Forgive.Must.Forgive.
So should I reschedule the class????
What is your intuition telling you to do?
good advice, CW...I think I need to pray on this one! I am not hardcore religious (meaning I don't go to church every week and can't quote the bible) but I DO believe in God! I must confess that since 6/14 I haven't prayed...just bc I didn't know what to pray for...don't want this to be happening....want to ignore it...
So part of me thinks I signed up for the class too quickly and reacted based on fight vs flight which was...flight!(as in--screw it! let's get this pain and torture over with!)so I shouln't have signed up so quickly. And the other part of me thinks "if stbxh really doesn't want to divorce me, then it doesn't matter if we take the class."
And so I shall pray about it.
That is all you can do NM!
I am the same as you...I don't go to church regularly but I have always bellieved in God...I have prayed more about my sitch with H than I did when I had cancer! Funny, huh?
One thing...
"And the other part of me thinks "if stbxh really doesn't want to divorce me, then it doesn't matter if we take the class."
It doesn't matter what STBXH thinks he wants...what do you want?
Go with that!
Good for you, Gabbysmom, to have achieved closure! And to work on forgiveness! And to be happy without him! Did your exh also express uncertainty when he chose to divorce you?
Just remember to do what is best for you and S. Don't worry now about H because he is doing his own thing now. Just be the best you, you can be and do those things that will help you.
vent:
I think the reason why I haven't been able to get help from my friends or family about how to proceed with my situation is that they don't want me to save my marriage.
And it's my own damn fault for discovering my stbxh has doubts. If I never asked him, who knows if he would have told me?
It's also my own problem for not knowing how to respond to him.
it's also my own problem for not scheduling a therapy appointment sooner because maybe he could help me.
So I am responsible for my confusion! argh!
NM,is the class a one-time thing or a series? Does WH take it with you?
It seems like one advantage to taking it in July is that you send H the message that you're taking him/this seriously.
One disadvantage is that it doesn't give you much time to mentally prepare yourself.
I'm not necessarily advocating postponement - you'll figure out which approach is best - but you might actually get more out of the class if you go into it feeling less rushed or pushed.
It's so hard to figure out what to do!
The class is a set of 4, one per week, and we are taking it separately. Thank you, Mrs. A, for your opinion on me taking the class!I do think it will show that not only am I taking this seriously, but it will help me to face this reality. I prayed about it last night and got a quick answer (unlike other questions I have asked!!!)
OK I have made some decisions and won't waffle. Then off to do some baking and cleaning again. And going to a going away party for my cousin later today.
1) I will go ahead and take the class in July. I prayed about it and, got the feeling (which is how I determine what God is suggesting to me) that "eh, six of one, 1/2 a dozen of the other--go ahead and take it." And then....this after thought "this class will good for stbxh to see what he is choosing to do."
Yes, I know it is what I want to do. So that is why I am taking it based on what I want to do, not him.
2)I will try to get in to see my therapist this week.
3)Sometime before the D is over, I will talk to stbxh some more. I just need help knowing
WHEN to do it (sorry but I have always been a big believer in timing. "Timing's everything.")
WHAT I want to ASK ( I think this is probably most important)
WHAT I want to SAY or let him know.
Not for "the magic words to make him wake up" but more like how to plant seeds for a teenager to make a decision about their life! (thanks WN for helping me change the way I am viewing sbxh!) AND ULTIMATELY FOR ME TO GET SOME ANSWERS I DESERVE TO KNOW
4) I will still keep up with GAL and keep my interactions with stbxh the same because it is what I want (not to be best friends, not to be rude, just brief and to the point, poker face).
1) I will go ahead and take the class in July. I prayed about it and, got the feeling (which is how I determine what God is suggesting to me) that "eh, six of one, 1/2 a dozen of the other--go ahead and take it." And then....this after thought "this class will good for stbxh to see what he is choosing to do."
Good goals, NewMama. I too believe that timing is everything. And I also determine what God is suggesting to me the same way. Whenever I pray for H to come back I get the work Patience repeating over and over again in my head.
I've been reading through your thread and think you're wise to:
1. Pack stbxh's stuff and have it waiting at the door
2. Make it YOUR space with new paint and accessories
3. Take class sooner rather than later
Show him that you're moving on with your life.
If he's having doubts, you turning off the lights on the NewMama option could make him freak. That + having him nearer his family + OW being further away from her family = a possibly quick end to their romance.
So what if he signed a lease? He can break it or sublet if things awry. It's a lease, not a death sentence.
Keep strong and see what happens. You're the girl!
Trying to be positive here: you're creating YOUR space now! With S. Maybe you can buy some nice pictures or put up new photographs of you with S!
Exactly my plan, Gatsby! Great minds....
I am getting S' photos done on July 14 and hope to have some shots of me with him as well. (we tried Sears and he was just too active and curious about the environment to settle down and pose! So I found someone who will follow him around and take pics!)
And I was thinking of what new art to put up. Gotta check out Ross or TJ Maxx!
Red, WOW, you posted at just the right time! I was cleaning and thinking to myself "I want someone to just tell me what to do! To say 'if I were you, and I wanted to save my marriage, and my WH expressed uncertainty, I would...'"
1. Pack stbxh's stuff and have it waiting at the door DONE!
2. Make it YOUR space with new paint and accessories in the works...get to go shopping for new comforter and art and getting more photos of S taken...
3. Take class sooner rather than later ALL SIGNED UP!
If he's having doubts, you turning off the lights on the NewMama option could make him freak
.
Might as well try!
OK. Am taking a deep breath. Am renergizing. My body and soul has been nagging at me for the whole last week...like that nicorette commercial where the man is oblivious to the shark biting his arm off because he is craving a cigarette. You see him sitting there, dazed, and hear his thinking "cigarette. cigarette. cigarette." lol!
But in my case it is "he's uncertain. he's uncertain. he's uncertain." and I told myself it was unhealthy for me to dwell on that so I made myself think "NO. He's leasing a house with her! Give this up, newmama! You are in denial!"
And when ONE friend said to me "newmama, you guys need to talk some more! He doesn't sound convinced!" I was the one who said "no. He said it was the right thing to do. He's leasing a house with her for a year. There's no use." And she didn't argue with me. Maybe because I didn't want to believe--hope can be exhausting! I had no idea!
It's a lease, not a death sentence.
lol! I am too practical! I was also thinking "but he BOUGHT NEW FURNITURE FOR THE PLACE!" And you are right. People who are not married, but dating, break up all the time. They move out. Leases can be broken. He could always give her the furniture as a consolation prize.
Whenever I pray for H to come back I get the work Patience repeating over and over again in my head.
Yep- that is like how I get my answers, too! either a word or phrase repeating, or a nagging sensation. And it isn't just the one day or time. It will linger and linger until I acknoweldge it or take action. Like the class. I prayed on it, got the response, and my gut no longer feels twisted and I have ZERO doubt now about doing it.
If I prayed on it, and still had the anxious feeling, I would pray again and then finally realize that the anxious feeling was lasting because it was my answer.
I prayed last year "Please God, please let me know if he is coming back." I got....NOTHING! No anxiety, no reassurance. Like "be still." ANd you know I asked God about this repeatedly! I also asked "should I divorce him?" and got NO! real fast, like so fast I figured it was just ME not wanting to do, not what is the right thing to do. ANd you know I kept asking from time to time!
Well, when March (2010) rolled around, I started to get a sinking feeling, when stbxh talked about me packing his stuff. I thought "he's not coming back." So I prayed on it. My sinking feeling went away and I got a sense of confidence. Not happiness, just confidence like "hang in there."
Then, on March 25, I could tell he was conflicted when he came over. He was deep in thought. I THOUGHT IT WAS OW! I thought "gee, it has been a year just about. And I BET she is pressuring him to divorce me but he doesn't want to! hahaha. But the joke was on me! I had NO CLUE that he was about to tell me he is ready to go through with the divorce!
So when he surprisd me, I asked God, "why didn't you warn me?" lol! I went to bed devestated. The words "I don't want to lose you" rang in my head and the words "I do not forsee ending my relationship with her." I went to bed thinking "He has to lose me then." But didn't know how to make that happen when I wasn't ready to date. I kept thinking that losing me means I get involved in another relationship.
The next day, my friend C, (who told me last week I was unhealthy for wanting to be with him still) shocked me by convincing me to talk to him and try to reason with him because he still had doubts. And then so did EVERY PERSON I talked to! I went to the beach, prayed about what to say- well, "Please God, please help me find the right words." And I had my handy 5 sentence speech ready for stbxh the next day.
The next thing I prayed about was whether to let stbxh still visit S at the house anymore. For the WHOLE MONTH of April, I had the nagging feeling of YES. MAKE HIM DROP OFF/PICK UP S! But I was too scared to do it or something....
I also had a feeling it would be a month before he was going to let me know his decision, so I got prepared for the worst and had my response ready to go, my attitude, my papers. I WOULD BE STRONG. And I did it. ANd I was right! On April 28, a month later, he told me he decided he doesn't want to keep hurting me and is going to proceed with the paperwork.
So I became very very depressed. I didn't pray. I just thought it was over. But I had this ANGST, this strong discontentment (is that a word?) about my actions. Like I needed to DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT! (was DIM for the month of May and just felt uneasy about it)It wouldn't go away.
But then, I got this idea to totally change direction, around the beginning of this month. Maybe my anti-d's finally kicked in, or maybe I was inspired by the fact that he hadn't given me the papers so it meant he had doubts. But I decided to stop being secretive about what S and I were doing or where I was going and to get him to be thinking of me and to draw him to me. (like my previous plan , but ELEVATED).
I let my guard down. I had a good feeling- I thought he isn't going to divorce me! He will see that there is hope for us! And "even if he divorces me, I will have a good life!"
Then, out of nowhere, he gives me the freakin papers! It's like in the movies, when people are partying and dancing, then suddenly the music stops. eeerrrrroooop! and all are quiet.
Where the hell did this come from? God, why didn't you warn me?
And I stopped praying again. Because I guess I only pray when I want help. And I didn't want it- I just threw in the towel. I needed to get through this pain, quick and rip off the bandaid. I wanted to waive the 90 days. I looked through the paperwork to see about doing that.
But I saw the date on the paperwork. It said May 14. That haunted me! It nagged at me, making me decide to just ask stbxh WHY he waited so long. So I did.
And the next thing that came to me was "ok. gotta make him face his decision. Gotta pack up his stuff. Gotta do this for me, too. For my acceptance." And then I became haunted by "he's uncertain!" and we are all caught up to today.
Now I will pray for the words and when to talk to stbxh.
Oh and to become emotionally stabilized so I can form a decent co-parenting relationship with stbxh.
Oops- sorry to give the impression that I would take stbxh back without conditions! I have them. You are right, Gabby's mom, that he should not be allowed right back in the house.
And I am not banking on this divorce falling through...just want to go about my life and see what happens and KNOW "it ain't over til it's over"
FWIW despite my H telling me "he can't be married anymore" and he is happier than ever he has many, many times expressed doubts to me. Is he lying? Who knows.
He has told me he is not 100% sure this is the right thing to do. That nobody can *ever* be sure. That he has no idea what the future holds for OW and so on. The last time he said this to me was the night before court. He also told me he didn't want our legal separation to be our "grand finale" but his next move was moving in with OW! LOL!
These men are a mess I think. The more I am thinking about the stupid text y'day the more *something* I get. As if that is okay to send such a message.
Move forward and I will join you!
NM, your thread's moving so fast I don't know if my response will be outdated by the time I start writing and hitting Submit
Hang in there and I agree these men are a mess...not all men though
Oh I remember the praying and weeping the last time my stbx left. For what it's worth she did come back with lots of empty promises only to leave again...this time though no more praying for her to come back. Just for whatever's best for me and my DD...
...this time though no more praying for her to come back. Just for whatever's best for me and my DD...
Thanks Romeo! That is important. ANd covers A LOT!
About the fast paced thread-- some days I blab and brain dump on here tons!
Oh and my cainer horoscope. right on again, when I have been searching the internet and copying and pasting stuff here in my thread- you guys saw!:
The answers you seek, this week, aren't in books or on internet sites. You are dealing with an issue that strikes right to your heart. How can you possibly hope to stand back and see it from a wider perspective? Or to reach a better understanding through getting more facts and exploring more theories? The comet suggest you are being led by a very powerful passion. Is it right or wrong? That depends whether you are being motivated by fear, anger... or a genuine desire to do what's best for everyone you care about. As long as your heart is in the right place, every other part of your life will yet end up in the right place too.
He has told me he is not 100% sure this is the right thing to do. That nobody can *ever* be sure.
Is there a book out there for WAS's??? My WH says the same exact thing to me!!! All of the time!!! yet, if i say do you think we could ever work things out, it become "not right now" which means "NO" but dont shut me out of your life for my own selfish needs please!
Newmama,
my prayers were/are pretty much the same... always looking for a sign, a sense of detachment, or signal from WH, or unprofound courage that keeps me from my WH. I looked for so many signs, my head is still spinning! Every thing I feel and signs i see and all point towards, dont worry WH is coming around... except... (and this should make you laugh) I prayed a Novena to St. Jude (saint of hopeless cases, the impossible...) and on the 8th day you get your answer, and well in March, I recieved my D papers on the 8th day! Maybe I shouldve taken the hint then and stopped praying! lol. not funny, but it kind of is...
nowadays, I pray for stregnth to forget him. Ask God to make me strong so that i realize that i dont need him. to make me strong and know i can do this alone, and get through the pregnancy alone. Believe me, I've had my arguments with the big guy upstairs too... like why me... how could you? what about this baby? it got ugly!
told WH that this is God's will for me...
Have to believe in something!
And I am not banking on this divorce falling through...just want to go about my life and see what happens and KNOW "it ain't over til it's over"
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst ( i really hate that saying!). Go on with your life, and keep your head held high... if your WH comes back, make him fall in love with you and work hard to be a part of your life! I know you are smart enough to have a list
of must haves to make the new relationship work! and good for you!
What is so hard for me, and maybe a bit misleading are all the success stories i hear of and read. Kudos to them for making it work... I am so happy for them. But at the same time, think that is the reason i can't accept my life as is. I have a few days where I accept the D and my life and then i meet some random stranger or nun or some other bizarre person who tells me their success story... and then I go back to... is this a sign from God???
These men are a mess I think. The more I am thinking about the stupid text y'day the more *something* I get. As if that is okay to send such a message.
yes they are a mess! (the WWs, too!) Because "
no one in their right mind would treat you like that" Sound familiar? Well that's what people say all the time. And they are right!
if your WH comes back, make him fall in love with you and work hard to be a part of your life!
I know what you are saying, but if he comes back, he will need to make ME fall in love with him!
I know you are smart enough to have a list of must haves to make the new relationship work! and good for you!
Yep and it's a pretty short but important list.
What is so hard for me, and maybe a bit misleading are all the success stories i hear of and read. Kudos to them for making it work... I am so happy for them. But at the same time, think that is the reason i can't accept my life as is.
Yes, I feel the same way! But then, why are these other people on the DB forum, who are gently telling us to let go, not being moved by those success stories? You know? I think "why am I hoping and so and so has moved on and accepted her life"
So what makes some give up and others keep fighting????
I have a few days where I accept the D and my life and then i meet some random stranger or nun or some other bizarre person who tells me their success story... and then I go back to... is this a sign from God???
IMO the REAL signs are loud and clear, like what you just described. I remember the stories you are referring to (from your thread) and they are sure "uncanny!" too strange to ignore.
But I guess I don't look for signs so much...I think I am better at feeling or hearing the answers. I would read into EVERYTHING way too much if I were to look for signs-but that is my personality!
was getting S ready for bed and I realized I might have worded this wrong:
why do some give up and others keep fighting?
The question should have been what makes some decide to let go of the rope and others to keep hanging on?
Hi NM! You do have a lot going on in your thread the last couple of days!
Dropping the rope is about letting go and letting God really...dropping the rope does not mean that we are giving up! We are moving forward with our lives but still having hope for our R's.
Hanging on is when we cannot emotionally drop the rope and it is not good for us...it makes our WAS's pull away even more...think of the R kinda like a hangman's noose, the tighter the "noose" gets the more the R gets strangled and the more the WAS wants out of the R...
why do some give up and others keep fighting?
The question should have been what makes some decide to let go of the rope and others to keep hanging on?
Maybe b/c for those of us hanging on we know that our marriage is worth fighting for! because we truly believe that you, me, us LBS and our WAS (in their pre-alien state of mind) do have the love and passion and friendship and drive to get to the next step. It's because we have a strange voice/urge/signs/calling/something that tells us NOT to give up!
For me it's the nagging voice in my head and my heart that will not give up even when the easy and logical thing to do is give in and let it ride itself out! In my sitch i feel like my WH shows too much confusion, as your WH recently said to you regarding the D papers, too. Are we naive to believe that maybe we could be a success story on here... dont we deserve to be? Shouldnt we give it a chance? If we walked away and took what was handed to us so easily wouldnt that make us as weak as our WAS, who left us instead of fighting through the feelings?
It doesnt make us bad people to still have hope... does it?
When the world says, "Give up,"
Hope whispers, "Try it one more time."
~Author Unknown
CW, good analogy with the noose...
seriously, it makes sense.
CW, good analogy with the noose...
seriously, it makes sense.
Totally make sense...
I need to let the rope go, I am currently strangling my WH!
Babydoll,
why do some give up and others keep fighting? The question should have been what makes some decide to let go of the rope and others to keep hanging on?
Maybe b/c for those of us hanging on we know that our marriage is worth fighting for! because we truly believe that you, me, us LBS and our WAS (in their pre-alien state of mind) do have the love and passion and friendship and drive to get to the next step. It's because we have a strange voice/urge/signs/calling/something that tells us NOT to give up!
For me it's the nagging voice in my head and my heart that will not give up even when the easy and logical thing to do is give in and let it ride itself out! In my sitch i feel like my WH shows too much confusion, as your WH recently said to you regarding the D papers, too. Are we naive to believe that maybe we could be a success story on here... dont we deserve to be? Shouldnt we give it a chance? If we walked away and took what was handed to us so easily wouldnt that make us as weak as our WAS, who left us instead of fighting through the feelings?
It doesnt make us bad people to still have hope... does it?
When the world says, "Give up,"
Hope whispers, "Try it one more time."
~Author Unknown
An absolutely heartening, noble post!
However I think some people "hang on" for different reasons. In my case, I would have to file because H doesn't want to file, but he doesn't want to work on things either. He just wants to hang with OW all the time and see S and I once a month maybe twice...
I hang on because of S. I don't want S to have to go back and forth especially for the last 15 months he has never had to do that. I wanted to start the back and forth last summer, but H didn't want to do that really because he wanted to live his carefree, spontaneous bachelor lifestyle with a married OW who is still married, so no room for S.
It is so hard with a small child to let go of the rope completely because you have to talk to the WAS. You can't rely on your child to fill you in or give them a hug then send them in to their other parent. You have to fill the WAS in and let them know what is going on. If the WAS is trying to be an active parent, which seems rare, but does happen, then you have to talk to the WAS about your child. You never get to be "free". I think that is what is so hard; separating the parent from the love and R since you have to share your most precious possession with them, your child.
For me, since I have dropped the rope more and more, and finally completely let go almost a week ago, H has had no contact at all with me, not even to know about S. I don't think unless his parents do something, he will ever see S again. Maybe that is another fear, that letting go will hurt the R with the children. Who knows, but at some point we all have to detach enough that we can move on without having the nagging hope that he/she will change their minds.
It is so hard with a small child to let go of the rope completely because you have to talk to the WAS. You can't rely on your child to fill you in or give them a hug then send them in to their other parent. You have to fill the WAS in and let them know what is going on. If the WAS is trying to be an active parent, which seems rare, but does happen, then you have to talk to the WAS about your child. You never get to be "free". I think that is what is so hard; separating the parent from the love and R since you have to share your most precious possession with them, your child.[/quote]
YES. I am happy for S that stbxh is a regular part of his life. But if we had the traditional every other weekend, Wed night father visitation, it would be easier for ME to detach. (I think?) but having a child is not about our needs!!
[quote]For me, since I have dropped the rope more and more, and finally completely let go almost a week ago, H has had no contact at all with me, not even to know about S. I don't think unless his parents do something, he will ever see S again. Maybe that is another fear, that letting go will hurt the R with the children. Who knows, but at some point we all have to detach enough that we can move on without having the nagging hope that he/she will change their minds.
NAGGING hope is right....and awest, I hope you are wrong and that S will see his dad again. So sad!
continue everyday ot bare the pain of coparenting with exH. To listen to my 2.5 year old talk about OW, her coming home with ehr nails painted from her, the NH trip they are taking ot a friends house together which I can't do anything about because i am working that weekend.I deal with my daughter sometimes slipping and calling me OW's name, which stings like hell, but I realize is just a mistake.
HOLY CRAP!!!! THIS IS TORTURE! (((Gabbysmom))) I am not looking forward to this stuff. I bet it would help me to be so angry at stbxh that I would drop hope in a second! Maybe that is what has helped you ??? sadly!! grrrr!
In the end, I know I am the one responsible for teaching my daughter morals and values, and I can only do that by being a strong woman and not let a man treat me like crap and show her how to repect herself as a woman, something her father and his soon to be wife are incapable of teaching my daughter. t is us who are responsible now for teaching our children right from wrong and self respect.
YES and for modeling a healthy relationship when we meet someone fit to be a good stepparent to our kids! And what to explain to them when they get older???
Yesterday, stbxh dropped S off and was visibly surprised to see his boxes of clothes and some pictures waiting for him. There was this one picture that I LOVE (and so does S) where he is an innocent little boy, about 10-11, with his wemeriner (sp!) dog. he is wearing acid wash jeans and a baseball cap. When we walk upstairs or down, S will always stop to look at that picture and touch it.
Interesting...wonder if he will put his family photos on the wall at THEIR place? There are a couple taken (I am not in them) at our house and at some places we went to.
And I haven't asked him if he wants any wedding photos, and he left the cards and love letters I have given him. I mean he still needs to sort through odds and ends in the office. So do I just put those momentos there? I don't feel strong enough to ask him "do you want these love letters?"
Now normally, if I didn't have a child, I would just burn or throw away the wedding photos....but after we were divorced. However, I know that S will want to see them! I have kept a tiny photo of my mom and bio dad's wedding. Just because- it's a reminder that they loved each other when they made me. And I look like my dad! I have one of my mom and stepdad (a few) because they were my parents growing up. And I just always want to remember them together. ????
So then stbxh was choking up, but swallowing to keep from showing. He was lingering for a long time, dragging out q's about S. He also took some of S stuff to a teen mom donation center for me, so I had to see him for a little longer.
But you know what? I didn't care. Seriously...I felt not angry, not sad, just acceptance maybe? I was casually telling him- you have plenty of shorts and summer shirts in there (he has been wearing these old shirts and stupid shorts).
And I wonder if he will have the same memory flashes I did when I was packing his clothes. Like this shirt I got him that was personalized for "stxh's flaming ass hot sauce" lol! I have some tacky tastes like I think T-shirts with some sayings and jokes like that are hilarious and so does he! (this shirt looked like a fake label to hot sauce)
I did something sneaky too...confession! I put on my perfume right before I was packing his stuff! So I had to hold the shirts against my chest to fold them and when he opens them he will smell it! Maybe OW too! I know he will wash them. But it made me feel good to do something silly like that!
I also noticed that he was trying to make eye contact with me A LOT while he was there, getting his stuff. And you know what? For the first time in a long time, I wanted to hug him and kiss him! ???? what is that all about?
Ha ha, I love the perfume thing.
So then stbxh was choking up
So aggravating. As if this is just as difficult for them as it is for us. Sorry, I know my WH will be like this when/if we get to this point.
Glad that you were detached enough to not care. That's great!
Lots of good points about dropping the rope and what makes a person able to do so. I guess it boils down to there is no right or wrong way to go through this process, just your own way.
Why is he acting like you did the tossing?
I thought you might enjoy this excerpt from Gods Little Lessons:
To let go doesn't mean to stop caring, it means I can't do it for someone else.
To let go is not to cut myself off, it's the realization that I don't control another.
To let go is not to enable, but to allow learning from natural consequences.
To let go is to admit powerlessness, which means the outcome is not in my hands.
To let go is not to care for, but to care about.
To let go is not to fix, but to be supportive.
To let go is not to be protective, but to permit another to face reality.
To let go is not to deny, but to accept.
To let go is not to nag, scold or argue, but to search out my own shortcomings and correct them.
To let go is not to criticize and regulate, but to try to become what I dream I can be.
To let go is not to regret the past, but to grow and live for the future.
To let go is to fear less and love more...
Newmama, you came out the other side of handing over his belongings with dignity. I had similar thoughts when sorting through my WHs things..will he remember that we bought this when we were on holidays in X? Will he re-read these old letters from me and miss what we shared?
Also Awst and Gabbysmom's posts choked me up because I feel exactly the same..how do you detach when you are linked by the most precious thing in your life - your child.
Makes me think it would be better if WH left for Europe and we never saw him again. I think I would rather that.
I packed all my H's personal things (photos, cards, notes and so on) and put them with the rest of his things. I have no idea if he ever looked at them or what.
Our Separation Agreement stated he was entitled to the professional wedding photos we had of his family/friends. Thus far he has never asked for them but we had literally hundreds of snapshots from the wedding I divided and put in his box. Plus, his parents and grandparents both have professional albums so I doubt he would want any of ours.
You did good!
My exH has a very easy time detaching. my therapist and I have discussed this, she never met him, but gets the picture over the last year and a half. When he has ot deal with things, emotions, he detaches. Very easily. He does it with everyone and everything his whole life, that's why he is just fine. he doesn't deal with emotions at all. ANd he always has a backup woman that fills the void. WHo knows what really goes on inside these guys heads. I have been trying to figure out the heartless things he does and says, but I am done trying, because i will never be in his level of emotional detachment, and for that I am actually thankful
.
Gabbysmom, I guess someone who doesn't deal with emotions AT ALL would be very good at ripping the wedding photos off the wall as soon as he drops the bomb! Seriously...I am so so sorry you had to experience this.
Interesting if he always has a backup woman...so much for the longevity of his "marriage" to OW!
Did you have any hints of his emotional detachment issues throughout your relationship? Is he a con man or something?
Piano, there is a strange positive of your WH moving to the other side of the world forever. You could find a stepfather for your daughter and she would always grow up with a consistent daddy. She wouldn't have to go back and forth between 2 homes. You wouldn't have to hear about OW.
I have had many many many days where I thought "what was I thinking? I should have told WH to stay out of our lives 100% until he has dumped OW." I know legally I couldn't have made him. But maybe he would run away and then I could find a replacement dad for S and get to have the intact family I always dreamed of. He will only learn of intact families from going to his friends' houses!
He will only learn of intact families from going to his friends' houses!
this statement reminded me of something DD16 said when she was 13 in 8th grade. She said "Mom, I like being different. Most of my friends' parents are divorced and mine aren't." Unfortunately, your son will not feel unusual coming from 2 families.
NewMama, you AMAZE me! Say it, do it, done!
Impressive!
So he got all choked up, did he? Took all those insecurities of his, packed 'em up and kicked him to the curb. Bet he didn't sleep a wink last night!
I'll have to remember the perfume move if it ever comes to me packing up WH's stuff. I did spray some of my perfume on his sheets on his bed in the basement when he first moved down there, but haven't touched them since.
I don't want him back "as is." He's got some changing to do before I share a bed with him again!
But I'm glad to see you rattled your WH's cage with all the boxes. Wonder what he'd do if he found one of your guy friends at your house, sipping a beer, sometime in the near future when he comes to pick up your son...
That is a depressing thought, that DS will think it's normal to have two families. I know that my DS remembers when his father and I were together and will talk about those times or ask why we can't be that way again. I too wish H would move far away so I don't have to hear about OW or see H and keep ripping open the wounds from his leaving us.
Thank you all for your encouragement! I did feel strangely powerful and strong and like I was holding one of those huge foam fingers from baseball games but instead it was the middle finger! (lol!)
I think also it doesn't feel like NOW I HAVE TO MAKE A LIFE FOR MYSELF because I started trying to think of myself as a single mom, met other single parents, gradually transitioning, just in case the worst happened. And it has helped. I recommend it to anyone who is in our sitches.
Thank you, Whatnow, for this poem! It is perfect. All I had before was the serenity prayer, which is helpful,but not too detailed or the livestrong detachment article which is waaaaay toooo detailed (for me).
To let go doesn't mean to stop caring, it means I can't do it for someone else.
Can't make him see the huge mistake he is making for his son and himself.
To let go is not to enable, but to allow learning from natural consequences.
Yep, enjoy your downward spiral and how deep CAN you dig that hole anyway?Sorry but you made your bed....
To let go is not to regret the past, but to grow and live for the future. I won't be the one with regrets!lol!
To let go is to fear less and love more... [/quote]
I am poking fun, but in reality have compassion from an objective point of view. Like if I was watching a Lifetime Made for TV Movie, and I was watching my stbxh just screw up more and more and more...I would be screaming at the TV going "NO!!! WHAT THE BLEEP ARE YOU THINKING??? This is too painful to watch! Poor unfortunate soul....and his consequences are hurting OTHER people's lives! But this man will have to learn the hard way."
Thanks again, WN! It made me chuckle actually...you are right. UNFORTUNTELY it is the norm these days. See I keep projecting my dreams onto him. Better be careful.
I too wish H would move far away so I don't have to hear about OW or see H and keep ripping open the wounds from his leaving us.
HOW do they justify doing this?
DD 10 goes to school with a girl whose parents divorced about 3 years ago, when the WH knocked up OW, who was also married at the time. I'm friendly with wife #1 and met wife #2 when the girls were at a slumber party together. Wife #2 is an EXACT REPLICA of #1, less 20 lbs and 5 years. I was flabbergasted. I instantly hated WS on the spot, knowing how much he'd hurt my friend just to get a younger, thinner version of her. How callous was that?
From "Why Men Fall Out of Love" (posted in newcomers)
http://www.enotalone.com/article/11819.htmlThis is my stbxh!!!!traumatic adolescence--brainy, scrawny, bullied. He grew up poor in an Indiana town--oops wrong song! he grew up DIRT poor, working on the farm. He vowed to never live a life like that again. His parents were very religious. He didn't relate. He was a pro on the golf team, math team, was terrific at fixing cars, always worked hard to earn money for his latest car...and did eventually get some girlfriends. Who went to a different highschool.
He wanted to live in the city and go to college so he worked hard for 2 years after highschool, started college in the city, worked graveyard in a warehouse...
He is now highly successful at work. Makes good money. And left his pregnant wife for a trashy immoral selfish messed up skank????
I realize that he is concerned about image. How funny!!!! What kind of image is he going to have now that everyone at work knows???? Hmm....
No matter the outcome,
the need to prove oneself is an aspect of masculinity that usually starts in adolescence.
Determined to "become a man," teenagers will often set impossibly high standards for themselves. As they experience the inevitable failures of trying to measure up, they devise intricate, ingenious schemes to be judged a success by their peers, and particularly by girls. Young males learn to be cover-up artists, even con artists, at this hypercompetitive, hypersensitive age. "Winning" a girl over by artifice and deceit is condoned because without a girlfriend many boys feel stigmatized. It's the kind of stigma that sometimes leads to isolation and depression, so lies, or stretching the truth, are easy to rationalize. More than being a sports star or having money or being blessed with good looks, having a girl on his arm can mean the ultimate peer approval for a young man.
Behind his "victory," however,
an adolescent often has a nagging feeling that he doesn't really know what he's doing, that he's a fake, and that at any moment his doubts and duplicity will be exposed to the world. Many men carry this fear and self-doubt into their adult lives, their professions, and their relationships, no matter how successful they try to appear. In terms of nurturing, approval, and acceptance, what these men didn't get from their families as boys and adolescents, they often want from their adult partner, or from popular culture.
If they can just lose a little more weight, get that promotion, buy that cool car, live in a great neighborhood ... surely their insecurities will melt away. The irony is that our culture, instead of bestowing the unconditional acceptance and approval that men (and women) want, offers instead more judgment, insecurity, criticism, rejection, and false hopes than even the most dysfunctional family could possibly devise.
Without the flexibility, relating skills, and patience to solve problems, many men just give up when things get too tough. They would rather walk out the door or dive into their private ocean of anger and guilt than be scrutinized and judged by their partners. Women give up on their relationships too - more often than men, according to most psychologists - but with a lot more thoughtfulness and less emotion than men bring to this process.
The irony is that women are the emotional gender but can be coolly rational under fire, while men are supposed to be objective and in control but easily collapse when their emotions take over. They have difficulty connecting head to heart in any efficient way. For women, "emotional reasoning" may be a skill honed from centuries of survival. In medieval times, when men from a village went off to war, only to be killed in combat, their widows knew that to survive, and for the survival of their children, they had to adapt to a new man. There was little time for grieving, only for clearheaded thinking. Perhaps this is why today when a woman abandons her relationship there is little stigma. She's seen as liberating herself, or doing what it takes to survive, or what's best for her children. On the other hand, when men flee they are often labeled as irresponsible and cowardly.Women, hurt and angry at being abandoned, often use a man's definition of his masculinity against him. If he was supposed to be the protector and provider, they say, he failed not just his partner but himself.
But are men really failures? Are they so irresponsible or negligent? Perhaps the deck has been stacked against them and they don't even know it, or they don't know what to do about it.
The truth is that a man who does not understand or feel comfortable with himself, was never nurtured as a child, never learned to trust and value his emotions, or never acquired socialization skills, especially conflict resolution, will almost inevitably wilt under the responsibility of a relationship or a family.
He may not necessarily run away, but neither will he find deep satisfaction or meaning in his most intimate relationship. Men, who tend to define their relationships more by their actions (for example, "making a living" or "being a responsible husband and father") than their emotions, will often live with their unhappiness and confusion, sometimes unaware there even is a problem until their partners tell them. Too many men are the emperors of ignorance and denial.
This is not to say that men don't have emotional triggers, or that they're clueless, or that they can't fall out of love because they never fell in love in the first place, as some women asserted. Men have a different point of view.
Many feel they are often driven out of love by their partners' behaviors. Among the men I spoke with, living with a controlling woman was love's principal assassin. Men might be equally guilty of trying to control, but their efforts are rarely as sophisticated, subtle, or pervasive; they are not as embedded in their gender "language" as they are for women. Possessing a wide range of emotions, women have the ability to turn their feelings on and off, and jump from one to another, in the blink of an eye. Their control might come through interference, judgment, inducing guilt or shame in a partner, setting and changing rules, or withholding affection - some of which can be conveyed in a tone of voice, a hand gesture, a hurt glance, or a pregnant silence. Few men have such range or abilities. They are simply not wired that way. Yet many women are unconscious of what they do and the effect they have on their partners. That they can be intimidating to men comes as a surprise to them[
u]. Their self-image is so positive, and they are so supportive of one another, they think, how can strong men possibly be intimidated by caring women?[/u]
Look. my stbxh was affectionate, hardworking, extremely giving, extremely attentive to details, took care of everything, helped me sooo much and my family, helped me in my classroom, cooked, cleaned, listened, fixed broken things, paid the bills, kept the yard up.
So it is EXTREMELY hurtful and painful to me when people try to tell me he "is not worth it," is a POS, you should hate him, he's worthless, you can do better etc.
I am NOT wearing blinders. I don't think every husband or wife is worth "waiting and hoping" for or worth reconciling with. But my husband was NOT a scumbag! Yes he hurt me incredibly, he is hurting our son, he is doing these stupid destructive things. But he is more than just a man who left his pregnant wife for the office trashy scumbag jezebel disgusting tramp!
And I read on here soo many husbands who did a lot worse ON TOP of cheating. I am embarrassed that I was so selfish and clueless during our time together. Maybe this happened to teach me how to be a better wife and have a long lasting relationship in my next marriage!
Hey NM,
To go off your last post, I read something interesting in Oprah's magazine yesterday. It was an article about how people can be two things at once, a true dichotomy. That people are not "either/or" but they are usually "both/and". Meaning, our WH/Hs can be both awful and destructive AND loving and considerate. And that most people are two opposing things at once.
The article didn't get too deep, but it was an interesting message.
NM
try to stop thinking of replacement dads and intact families
an intact family
is one where the members love and respect each other
more importantly than saving a marrage is
saving yourself
work on how you can be complete on your own
regardless of what your Husband feels or does not feel, does or does not do
when you can stop guaging everything by how he responds or what he may or may not be thinking
that is growth
do for you
be the person you were always meant to be inside
often when something this horrible happens to us we go into survival mode
and
we forget that we need to be in LIVE mode
you are stopping living because you are focusing on him and what he thinking if he has doubts, what they could be
I used to think that a couple was that...a couple...together...2 parts
what I have learned from this is that I am whole all on my own
my life would continue if Cori were to leave
I would still be a terrific mom
an awesome teacher
a wonderful friend
it is in this state that I am fully able to appreciate and love Cori for who he is...not what he does for me (although I do appreciate that!!!)
it is because I am whole that I can love him with my whole person
Hey NM!
How are you doing today! Lots of deep though things happening over here!
Proud of you for packing your H's stuff!
I replied to you on my thread but forgot to mention your S's birthday coming up! What will you do?
an intact family
is one where the members love and respect each other
more importantly than saving a marrage is
saving yourself
This should be the entire premise of "Surviving" imho, Figgy does it again with her ever so wise words!!
Thank you Figgeroni! I think I am like a case where you have to get your leg amputated but you still have "ghost" feelings of it being there...meaning I was THIS CLOSE to having my family (I felt) and I never got to even experience it for a day or a couple weeks or a couple of months. So it makes me want it more I guess. But you are right. Family is where the heart is. I am enough by myself. Gone is the intact family though! It is now worthless to dream it! I don't mean that negatively, I am being honest. It ain't happenin so I shouldn't pine for it! I will get there.
So I had a pretty good day with S! I don't know if it is me or because he is almost 1, his personality is really shining through. But I can actually play with him at the park on the swing where I hold him up 1,2, and then I say 3! and let go and he looooves it! He might start to be putting things inside containers now, too, instead of just dumping them out. But he is throwing his food on the floor and being a picky eater. I use my instincts but wish I had a partner to help me.
So I confess, I have asked stbxh his opinion or what does HE do in those cases.
It is just darn confusing. Am I supposed to pretend he doesn't exist? Or is it ok that I ask him his opinion/help on child rearing questions? This is why I do want to get married again. Raising a kid by yourself is doable but it is DAMN HARD!!! So there is nothing wrong with me for wanting help! He gets to ask OW (barf puke moan!)
Ok another question I have...what about taking up his offer to help me with stuff? Like he offered to help me move my boxes back to my school (I have 2 carloads worth).
Do exes do that kind of stuff for each other or it not part of the deal? You know- like is that wrong?
SO please- let me know-is it ok that I communicate with him about q's I have related to S?
AND is it okay to accept his help? Thank you!
Newmama,
You must be the best mama ever because you just have a calming effect - even when you're pissed! Thank goodness I had like 12 pages to read up on tonight - I needed it! As always, thank you for sharing...
So anyway, my dearest friend always says to me, "The film is still rolling. The movie isn't over yet."
I find that advice so helpful. It doesn't mean that Mr. A and I or you and Mr. NM will ride off into the sunset, it just means that this whole thing is still evolving.
You've had a ton to process lately. You don't need to force yourself to draw conclusions now. Just notice and handle everything that's being thrown at you.
Ok, now I'm giving advice to myself. But I'm happy to read that you're enjoying time with S!!!
Um, I guess, good luck with the next little while - whatever rolls on the film. You have a lot of people on these boards who think you rock!!
Best,
Mrs. A
CW thanks for asking! I am still feeling good-not numb, not elated, just good. I ordered new comforter set and wall art for my bedroom. I filled 2 HUGE heavy duty garbage bags with clothes to give to Goodwill!
And for S' b-day next week, on his actual day, well I will ask about that. Do I acknowledge it with stbxh? I accidentally scheduled S' 12 month appt (shots!
) on his actual birthday! I mean it was the day and time that worked...so I was thinking of giving S an Elmo cupcake on that day (well you know- he won't eat the thing!) and doing it with stbxh????
But he has him that night. So he will take him to his place with OW. I am sure they will celebrate.
I am having an Elmo themed b-day party with my family on the 11th!
Mrs. A thank you! I am way more moody on this board than in real life....I mean I try to stay calm and collected IRL in front of people, no matter if I am angry or sad. So I get to vent here! And look like a crazy chick who is always on the rag! lol!
By the way, I can't help it...was thinking about Red's suggestion of having a male friend over sometime when stbxh drops off S! haha! Well I don't have ANY male friends because I purposely have avoided that due to bad previous experience (they never stay "just friends") and out of respect for my marriage-- just ME, am not saying ALL PEOPLE need to do that!
I guess I don't want to be tempted and I didn't want stbxh to be jealous. (He was the same with women UNTIL OW and I reluctantly agreed to "allow" it!)
Ok well a thought did cross my mind...and the whole purpose of this is just mild revenge/torture/self amusement....whatever. All I have to do is have a different car at my house one night when he drops off S or picks him up! I would just greet him at the door with S, and stay there, not open the door and talk in the entryway. He would definitely notice the car, and notice my behavior.
If he wanted to use the bathroom I would say "now that you live so close, can't you hold it?" NO! lol! I would say "ummmm...it isn't the best time actually..." IMPLYING he doesn't want to come in and hope he thinks it is due to the agreement we had made to not bring boyfriends/girlfriends around each other. It would just be my single mom friend, not a guy! But he wouldn't have to know that!
Your questions are hard ones. For a long time, we are just separated, I would call H to ask about a lot of things or ask for help when S was sick, but H always responded rudely and never came over. So I stopped. If it is about S, I would say you should contact him.
With helping you move stuff, I would ask how will it make you feel. If it will make you feel bad when he leaves because you know you guys will get along, then don't do it. If you can keep it in your mind that you are just friends...then why not, but I would say keep him out of your life. Just keep him in S's.
For me, I do a lot on babycenter.com to check on things now or I call my grandma or mom because they already raised kids and know what to do...especially my grandma.
S
It is just darn confusing. Am I supposed to pretend he doesn't exist? Or is it ok that I ask him his opinion/help on child rearing questions?
Ok another question I have...what about taking up his offer to help me with stuff? L
Do exes do that kind of stuff for each other or it not part of the deal? You know- like is that wrong?
SO please- let me know-is it ok that I communicate with him about q's I have related to S?
AND is it okay to accept his help? Thank you!
Hey, here's my take: it all depends on how you feel. if you think you can remain detached and carefree with interacting with him that way, then go for it. If it will create more angst for you, then wait a little longer until it doesn't.
I guess my thing is if it will be free help, I'll take it! But in order for it to really be 'free' I shouldn't have to pay for it with emotional turmoil later.
Just my thoughts; see ya!
Am I supposed to pretend he doesn't exist? Or is it ok that I ask him his opinion/help on child rearing questions? This is why I do want to get married again. Raising a kid by yourself is doable but it is DAMN HARD!!! So there is nothing wrong with me for wanting help! He gets to ask OW (barf puke moan!)
I would NOT ask him for advice. Does he know? or will he be giving you OW's advice? DO you really want her advice? Ughhh
There are too many books, sites, etc with more experienced advice. Health wise, I always relied on my pediatrician. Yes, I bugged his nurse endlessly with my first one! You are already educated in child development, and you have mother's intuition.
Do exes do that kind of stuff for each other or it not part of the deal? You know- like is that wrong?
At this point, I don't think it is wrong. All the better if it ticks off OW! lol
Ok I just realized something:
I will be going to the custody class next week. I bet I can ask my questions to "the experts" and get their take, too. NOW just because I consult other people doesn't mean I follow what they say, lol! I like to have a variety of sources and if most line up, and it feels right to me (not what I WANT but what is right) then I usually do it.
WN I do know child development but more like from age 4+. Babies have always been a mystery to me! I was scared of this part of motherhood and the teenage part!
And what if I do something completely opposite of stbxh? Then what will S do or think?
But I must remember that stbxh and I did agree on most things about child rearing.
lol- I totally do not want OW's advice!! I have always wondered if it is her influence on stbxh when he has described doing certain things. I think I may even bring it up to him at some point. But thinking of it like this will help deter me from asking him!
And yes....believe me I am feeling free to do or say whatever I want at this point (bar from making things worse for S) and that means a positive side effect will be pissing off OW!!!!!
Down the road I really, really worry about how OWs and OMs will play out. My parents divorced. My dad didn't remarry until I was in college. He had a steady girlfriend for a long time, but I never stayed over so she was never in a position of authority.
My mom had two husbands and two live-in boyfriends the final 20 years of her life. The first one tried to do discipline, but that didn't work and we didn't get along. He didn't last long. The second husband left all of the stuff to my mom. I do remember arguing with him a few times. But I didn't really listen to him.
That was the same thing with the last guy as well.
The class I took suggested talking on the phone twice a week over what's going on. I'm not ready for that yet. I don't even want to hear her voice right now.
I hope by next year to be able to do that. I'm not sure what the trigger for me will be. I may never be able to talk to her, instead just sending email updates.
I expect to eventually remarry and I wonder how I'd handle her children or how my children would handle a brother or sister. Life is going to get so much more complicated.
ask whomever you want and trust for advice
one of the greatest thngs that can come out of all of this is if your ex finds someone who loves your son
none of us can have too much love in our lives or too many people who are looking out for us
As my youngest son told his soon to be younger step-brother:
"I miss my mom sometimes when I'm with my dad and ***, but then I think how lucky I am to have three people that love and take care of me."
It all works out.
Well, this is all just a bi#&^ and nobody's going to figure it out in a day. Sorry, NM, that you're dealing with it.
My very best,
Mrs. A
Newmama, I love the questions that you are asking about coparenting. I'm sure your class will answer many.
I also want to HIGHLY recommend this book;
http://www.amazon.com/Helping-Your-Kids-Divorce-Sandcastles/dp/0679778012There is a chapter specifically devoted to infants/toddlers experiencing divorce.
Your library probably has it.
(((hugs)))
Thanks everyone! Yes, FM, the library does have it. I will have to dig up my library card, lol!
Not ready to be thrilled about OW an stbxh playing happy family WITH MY SON. I never ever ever will be thrilled and I don't have to be! waaaah! (stomping my feet!)
Seriously, why do I need to be happy for them? I don't see the benefit.
But I can rest with the fact that S will be his dad and he will safe. That is it.
Not ready to be thrilled about OW an stbxh playing happy family WITH MY SON. I never ever ever will be thrilled and I don't have to be! waaaah! (stomping my feet!)
Seriously, why do I need to be happy for them? I don't see the benefit.
But I can rest with the fact that S will be his dad and he will safe. That is it.
Same with me. That's how I consoled myself, that DS was with his father and was safe, that I can't control who his father brings him around much as I would like to.
Not ready to be thrilled about OW an stbxh playing happy family WITH MY SON. I never ever ever will be thrilled and I don't have to be! waaaah! (stomping my feet!)
You don't have to be thrilled. But the book that I recommended has a lot of ideas of how parents can affect the outcome of how divorce affects their children. The attitudes and emotions that you project about your WH and your S's life with him will have a huge impact on your S.
(((hugs)))
I found this one to be pretty well laid out...
http://www.amazon.com/Helping-Children-Divorce-Revised-Updated/dp/078795554XI checked it out from my library.
PS. I echo what Drew says - it does all work out.
Hey NM!
Don't have anything to add...just trying to keep up with you!
Hope you have a great 4th~~~
FM sorry- getting the book was not connected to what I said about me not being thrilled about S "happy family" with OW and stbxh.
I was trying to address your post in the same reply is all.
Hopefully I am not offending people when I just say I am not happy that OW will be in his life and never will be. ANd I think that is okay.
Thanks for reading my moody posts and trying to comfort me though. I know your hearts are in the right spot.
Thanks CW! You too! I bought a t-shirt with some patriotic design this year! It was $4 and I thought "why not?" but didn't find one for S.
I felt progress with detaching today when I saw stbxh for pick up/drop off. He brought me some teething tablets and said "PEOPLE tell me these are supposed to help." I said "PEOPLE, huh? Well actually I already have these so you can take them back with you. Thanks though." (that is an abbreviated version of what I said- I wasn't that snippy IRL!)
for those not on my wavelength, PEOPLE=OW.
I saw that he got something from the county courthouse (yep, mail will be coming to my house still, for awhile until the address change takes effect). So I told him "I think this could be divorce stuff. What is it?" he opened it and it was Jury duty--we both laughed because he has been called for jury duty about 2x per year since I have known him! AND I NEVER have been called! (knock on wood).
So then I was staying at the door, handing S over, trying to give a quick run down of his naps, eating, mood, etc to stbxh. He could tell I just wanted him to get the F out of there! lol!
So he said "well mommy has to get to her class, so we will say bye bye now!"
haha!
Then I was annoyed when I came home and saw his car was in the driveway. A couple weeks back, I told him on Thurs nights if he needed he could bring S back to go to bed earlier if he can't wait until 8:45. Well it REALLY bothered me that he was in MY house whenI wasn't there (my house was A MESS because I went out of town yesterday), even though I told him awhile back that it was ok. So I couldn't be mad at him- he didn't do anything wrong. Luckily he just got there so he wasn't hanging out (he was in the bathroom, lol!)
Before he left, I went through the schedule and discussed days where I had plans and would appreciate flexing on the pick up/drop off times. I am going to the beach in late August with friends and want to bring S, but he will be away from stbxh for 5 days. So I told him that was my wish, to take him with me, and we could figure out how to make up the time for him.
I added "I am sure you will want to take him with you on vacations some time" and stbxh said "I don't know if I ever will have time this summer for a vacation, but yeah, in the future."
And then we reiterated that S' dr. appt was on Tues, his birthday. I added "yeah and I have to go to custody class that night, too." I didn't hide my disappointed tone.
He said "oh you start that early, huh?" I didn't ask when he started. Must be August.
I get to see my IC on Monday instead of the 12th! It will be a relief I think...I want to get his take on how to approach "the day of S' birth" with stbxh and some other stuff too!
But, the biggest progress toward detachment today was recognizing that I am ready to not be that interested in stbxh's life, he is my son's father (baby daddy) and I can conclude that he is just an immature, foolish guy who thought he could handle marriage and thought he knew what he wanted.
Maybe he will learn from his mistakes, maybe not. If he learns and wants to R when and I am not attached to someone new, then I will be open. But who knows WHEN that will happen so I need to just find a way to block him out of my mind and "free myself" from thinking about him. He is that loop that computer programmers refer to "does not compute"-- so I will no longer waste my energy thinking about why he is doing this and what will happen next. I mean it!
I know I said it before but I am ready now. My life goes on with S...thank God I have my job,too!
Hey! Glad you got back on and updated. I was wondering what was up!
"Does Not Compute"-- I love it! Yep, that's where he is now. Glad to read about your detachment.
Do you have work to do yet? Planning or scope and sequence or anything?
Hi Newmama,
You asked about the coparenting book in my thread. It's this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Helping-Your-Kids-Divorce-Sandcastles/dp/0679778012I think it would be helpful for you because it has a chapter on babies/toddlers.
(((hugs)))
Hey NM, glad to see you are doing well with the detachment! I like the "people = OW". you handled yourself well.
So glad I found you on FB! You are beautiful... your S is too!
keep up the good work... and stay strong!
Been busy GALing! I'm trying not to spend as much time on here but still check in on others' threads!
Gabbysmom- don't worry, I will be careful and R is the furthest thing from my mind while I am getting a D so I don't care to explain what I would do. But I would be smart.
Am about to go to a BBQ at a friend's house...I saw her in December and S was just 5 months!
Hopefully I can stop in at a bookstore and get the Sandcastles book that FM recommends....along with a coffee! Long nights these days.
FM- sorry I thought the book you were referring to was different than this one because you said you were reading a book about coparenting. So I figured it was a different book.
Something amusing was today, stbxh texted to see if he could switch a night with me. BUt I have tickets to a concert so I couldn't...so I texted him that and added "I have plans every Saturday night in July." He just replied "ok!" I ALMOST texted a suggestion that his sister could watch him but stopped because it is his night, his problem.
"I have plans every Saturday night in July."
You rock newmama
I'm glad you've been GAL.
I think you should follow your own mind and heart when it comes to dating etc. But it doesn't get said often enough here that a connection with a new man and being appreciated for the person who you are now can be a balm to the soul, especially if you are very picky and insist on a situation that is emotionally secure. Of course there are risks, and only you can judge if you are prepared for the potential negative outcomes.
(((Hugs)))
Ok got the Sandcastles book. Thorough, but depressing. I mean they are just stating the facts...
I guess I feel good about the fact that I am doing 90% of what they recommend for co-parenting. The things I need to work on are allowing the lingering--YES, when stbxh lingers before and after an exchange of S, it helps S to transition between us.
The other thing is that the author suggests that for a child's birthday, if the child wishes it, then we should do our best to be together for some or all of it, but leave the boyfriends/girlfriends at home.
"More prevalent than drug abuse, teenage pregnancy, or the death of a parent, divorce is the most common problem facing kids today.Only 40% of those born in mid 1980's can expect to grow up in a home with both biological parents present, a trend the U.S. Census Bureau predicts will continue into the next century."
"Compared to children from maritally intact homes, children of divorce have higher rates of depression, sexual acting out, substance abuse, conduct disorders, problems with school, and delinquent behavior.Statistically, they are more likely to marry earlier and divorce than children from "intact" families."
but, like we have heard, they said that children who grow up in high conflict but intact families grow up with more problems than those from low conflict,divorced families.
So, to avoid being too bitter, I will think of how I can help S avoid all of those depressing problems....an intervention, if you will, would be to have a pleasant co-parenting relationship.
"We are not shaped so much by our actual experiences as how we are taught to respond to them."
(all of these quotes are from the Sandcastles book)
Nm! Awesome...plans every Sat night in July!
Was reading what you posted about the sandcastles book and co-parenting and children's birthday's. I truly did think about inviting H to join us for cake today but he had already had cake with D12 earlier...I had even thought about asking him to go in on a gift with me for her birthday but didn't. It just didn't feel right...
I should probably read the book...
[quote] But it doesn't get said often enough here that a connection with a new man and being appreciated for the person who you are now can be a balm to the soul, especially if you are very picky and insist on a situation that is emotionally secure. Of course there are risks, and only you can judge if you are prepared for the potential negative outcomes.[/quote]
You know what? I AGREE! I was thinking about the fact that most people seem so cautious about dating post divorce and it is seen as a scary, negative thing.
Is it because they are scared of getting their hearts broken again? Or hurting another? Ok, am playing devils' advocate here: Isn't that always the risk with dating?
And I don't care if I am whole all by myself or that I don't NEED another person to make me happy. Eventually, I WANT another person and 2 wholes are better than one! And hell, being a single parent is HARD. Can I do it? yes. But I don't have to do it alone so WHY??? Meaning when I am ready, I will be looking to for my next husband. Because I don't HAVE to live alone, raise S alone, no I do not.
But the idea of dating right now is totally suffocating and makes me afraid of messing up a good thing anyway. So I think I can trust myself for knowing when it is right.
CW-
Yes, the book is worth it. Tough stuff though. But I think it will be a good reference. I mean, I can see myself grabbing it to read advice about how to deal with a sitch as S gets older.
Ok off to check on your thread and others!!!
oops forgot to add, that OBVIOUSLY the fact that I am so upset with my parents for divorcing is making it harder for me to accept my own divorce.
But the idea of dating right now is totally suffocating and makes me afraid of messing up a good thing anyway.
NMM,
I feel the same way, I think it's going to take me a while to trust a man again. But if we continue to GAL, we are doing something for ourselves, and also giving ourselves plenty of opportunities to meet someone. Two birds with one stone.
oops forgot to add, that OBVIOUSLY the fact that I am so upset with my parents for divorcing is making it harder for me to accept my own divorce.
NMM,
My parents are not divorced, but it's not easy for me to accept my impending divorce.
And my H comes from a family with no divorces, but this will be his 2nd divorce.
Hope you had a good holiday with DS.
Gabbysmom, lol about the one nighters! Been there done that a few times in college and I honestly have no interest at this point. What is funny is that this next time around when I am dating, I have the advantage to use hindsight, you know? "If I knew now what I wish I knew then..." Well I do! ANd so do you of course!
When I am ready to date, which is when I am ready to potentially find a guy that I want to be with for something more serious, I feel confident that I will find a good guy within a year. But that doesn't mean I will move in fast or marry him quickly! 'When I fall in love, I'll take my time, There's no hurry when I'm making up my mind' I honestly believe I know how and where to meet men and now that I am more confident in myself and willing to take risks like be the one to make the first move, WATCH OUT!;) But I know not to be too smothering, too aggressive, too fast....
And I will have a thick skin. You see, last Saturday night, I went out with my friend J and her friend A joined us. The teacher of the wine class was cute, "nerdy cute" as J described. I like nerdy cute! Among other kinds of cute. But anyway, turns out that J and A (sorry to be so anonymous, lol!) both really liked him. Since I am not interested in dating right now, I didn't care. BUT I noticed that he totally was into J or A but not me. I didn't feel rejected about it. I kind of thought "ok, he likes edge-y girls. Guess I'm not his type. No biggee!"
OK Gabbysmom, I posted in your thread about dating!
Just had a random thought....amazon.com knows A LOT about me...
due to cookies?
Eventually, I WANT another person and 2 wholes are better than one!
I feel the same way...I set out to have a family and I had a great one until STBXW decided to ruin it for us. But she can't stop me from following my goals. It's like when you're on a mission and you ask your troop 'now's your chance to turn back if you can't handle it'...she turned back but I'll keep on going.
Yes, too many movies lately
Gatsby--good taste! BUt we better not go out looking for guys together! We might fight over them! (lol!)
Romeo-no such thing as too many movies...have you heard of "movie therapy?" it's real! look it up!
Just came back from my therapist and want to post this before I work out....
OK so I wanted to feel at peace with the fact that I am letting go and dropping the rope. Here was his take based on my questions:
1)AT THIS POINT, even if I was able to talk stbxh into dropping the divorce, and doing something to get him to decide to come back, it wouldn't be in my best interest because HE didn't come back on his own...he is unstable enough to be easily swayed to go back to OW and give me a false reconciliation. My IC put it like this: if he is able to divorce me while feeling major doubts and is uncertain, then that shows me he is not emotionally secure (at this time or maybe never) to handle R at this point. Made sense!!!!!
2)If I were to let stbxh know that "who knows, if we are both available in the future, maybe we could reconcile" then that wouldn't be a good idea. He would think "newmama will always be there." It behooves me emotionally (for myself) and strategically to not let him know. Continue letting my actions speak for themselves....I am actually detaching and it is helping me.
3)he said that something major like a BIG BLOW UP or an explosion in their relationship could happen and it is plausible that it could cause stbxh to come to his senses. But we can't predict when and how so it's best for me to just move forward with detaching.
4)when I said I was worried about not being able to love stbxh again, he said the feeling of love is the "romantic love" that goes away in 3-4 years. He said that after that, love is am action, a commitment, an intuitive act, a choice, a comforting feeling...so we can love if we want to. (take THAT, WASs!)
5)when I said maybe I was wrong about my judgment of character and that scares me....he said part of picking a mate is just luck. He said people really do change and they are unpredictable.
6)he told me people who come through divorce and are resilient are able to take it as "an opportunity to grow and change" and use the time to improve themselves. (Sound familiar? Thanks MWD!!)
7)I asked him about handling S' first birthday tomorrow. (OMG this exact time last year I was in my hospital gown, waiting for the foley bulb and pitocin!)Well he told me that I can always say "in the future, I would like to acknowledge S' birthday together, but this year it is too raw. I hope you understand."
But he said ultimately to follow my gut.
8)He did warn me that stepfamilies always have problems. It's hard. It's stressful (not every minute!). He wasn't sugar coating it. (but it made me feel good thinking that stbxh and OW will have problems, even though they aren't married right now)
OK well I do feel good. I confess (NO 2x4s!!!) that I still had a 2% doubt about not talking to stbxh more about his uncertainty. I had a fear of doing permanent damage to any option for R in the future, not that I want that today or this summer for that matter.My IC told me IT WAS NORMAL to still hold on to some hope as the ship goes down....meaning that I can detach successfully and still want to R in the back of my mind but that it will shrink as time goes on. He said that if stbxh does come crawling back, it may be too late because I could already be happily involved in another relationship.
(((NM)))
I like your therapist!!!
Thanks CW- He was citing studies and research for a lot of the stuff and he also kept saying "listen to your intuition"
haha! stbxh just dropped off S. I was wearing a dress today "just because." (stbxh picked up S early,I did chores around the house, then visited my grandma to help her pay her bills online, then went to my therapist)
Well, stbxh says to me "you look nice. Did you do something?"
I tell you, this is the second time he has complimented me on my looks during this whole year+separation and the third explicit question about my plans in three days! I evaded the question at first because I was holding S and he was wiggling around. Then said 'well ONE of the things I did was help my grandma pay her bills.' haha!
OK and then about 7:50 I got a wild hair/flash...that if I DON'T acknowledge S' FIRST b-day with stbxh, then the only person he will be sharing it with is the selfish bitch! (OW)
So before they arrived, I quickly grabbed a cupcake, slapped some frosting on it (that I made earlier), and an Elmo face that I made. I showed stbxh the cupcake and said "do you want to celebrate his birthday tomorrow after his shots?" and added "wow, this time of day last year I was getting all hooked up for his birth!" he just said "yeah...it's hard to believe isn't it?"
folks... I won't hate him because he is too sad! He has special needs in the relationship/emotions department. Damaged people need love too...but he needs too much work right now!
4)when I said I was worried about not being able to love stbxh again, he said the feeling of love is the "romantic love" that goes away in 3-4 years. He said that after that, love is am action, a commitment, an intuitive act, a choice, a comforting feeling...so we can love if we want to. (take THAT, WASs!)
I didn't realise it was 3-4 years...I was thinking more like 2. Anyway, doesn't matter. I like your therapist too!
Happy birthday to your little one. 1st birthday. Wow!!! Congrats to you for bringing him into the world and taking such good care of him. HUGS!
I know, first birthday! Yay, S! And yay you for making cupcakes and your own frosting.
I really like the first point especially from your therapist.
1)AT THIS POINT, even if I was able to talk stbxh into dropping the divorce, and doing something to get him to decide to come back, it wouldn't be in my best interest because HE didn't come back on his own...he is unstable enough to be easily swayed to go back to OW and give me a false reconciliation. My IC put it like this: if he is able to divorce me while feeling major doubts and is uncertain, then that shows me he is not emotionally secure (at this time or maybe never) to handle R at this point. Made sense!!!!![/color]My H actually did this to me, and it hurt a lot so you don't want to go there. If he does come back or continue the compliments, make sure you "date" again.[color:#000099]
2)If I were to let stbxh know that "who knows, if we are both available in the future, maybe we could reconcile" then that wouldn't be a good idea. He would think "newmama will always be there." It behooves me emotionally (for myself) and strategically to not let him know. Continue letting my actions speak for themselves....I am actually detaching and it is helping me.
3)he said that something major like a BIG BLOW UP or an explosion in their relationship could happen and it is plausible that it could cause stbxh to come to his senses. But we can't predict when and how so it's best for me to just move forward with detaching.
4)when I said I was worried about not being able to love stbxh again, he said the feeling of love is the "romantic love" that goes away in 3-4 years. He said that after that, love is am action, a commitment, an intuitive act, a choice, a comforting feeling...so we can love if we want to. (take THAT, WASs!)[/color] I read a good book about this. It is about all the different types of love and how they are all needed in a marriage, but during difficult times it is the agupe love that is a love where you choose to love someone, and that love is the love the loves beyond everything. I have chosen like you to love H no matter what (for me, my H's health has dramatically declined since the separation, and he was healthy when he left), but although he is not himself at all and has hurt me numerous times...I still love him[color:#000099]
5)when I said maybe I was wrong about my judgment of character and that scares me....he said part of picking a mate is just luck. He said people really do change and they are unpredictable.[/color]I love hearing this because this is where I am at. Although my H was doing all of this the entire time we were dating, I just didn't want to hear it, but it is good to know that they do change and sometimes you can't help it. This really is good to know[color:#000099]
6)he told me people who come through divorce and are resilient are able to take it as "an opportunity to grow and change" and use the time to improve themselves. (Sound familiar? Thanks MWD!!)
7)I asked him about handling S' first birthday tomorrow. (OMG this exact time last year I was in my hospital gown, waiting for the foley bulb and pitocin!)Well he told me that I can always say "in the future, I would like to acknowledge S' birthday together, but this year it is too raw. I hope you understand."
But he said ultimately to follow my gut.[/color] With my H, it was S's 2nd b-day and I uninvited H because he wasn't giving any financial support for 4 months and wasn't seeing H so I said he doesn't deserve to celebrate with S, but we did go out to eat on S's actual birthday just the three of us.[color:#000099]
8)He did warn me that stepfamilies always have problems. It's hard. It's stressful (not every minute!). He wasn't sugar coating it. (but it made me feel good thinking that stbxh and OW will have problems, even though they aren't married right now)[/color]I come from a step family and unless he and OW are going through counseling to learn how to step parent, it won't work. Part of the reason I am leary on getting remarried because step is really really hard and I don't want that for me or S. It is good news for you because it is probably a point of constant contention between them although you don't know it.[color:#000099]
You are doing great and I am excited to see how things turn out. It seems like H might be coming around slowly and possibly dragging his feet on getting the D finalized so there is a sliver of hope, but I think you detaching and moving on is good because that could be what is drawing H closer, and if not then you are in a better place.
Thanks Gatsby and Piano! He was born at...9 something! crap I forgot! I have it in his baby book.
Well Awest, I am not reading into stbxh's behavior as meaning anything. Thanks to other people's threads, I see that many exes just want us to hold on or hang on. Selfish!! I am amused mainly! I don't see how he is stalling on the D either. In 8 days I think we go to the next level.
Humor is GOOD!
I also wanted to point out something I noticed a few days ago. You had said that baby daddy has been been asking questions about your activities lately. I remember a few months ago you were using that as a barometer, and he would not ask you a thing! He was just giving you "looks". Why is he asking now about what you are doing? Hmmmm.
Happy Birthday Baby!
Good point, WN. Hmmm.Now what's for lunch? lol
So I came back from S' appointment. I forgot a snack for S and they didn't have anything good at the coffee stand (last time they had bananas!) so I called stbxh to ask if he could pick up a snack or a banana on his way. (we both go to the dr. appts)He did.
I brought the cupcake,thinking maybe we could give it to S after the appointment, in the car (???) or something and sing him Happy Birthday. Stbxh said "won't that be messy?" I said yeah, but it's his birthday. He said "he could eat it at home."
So I choked up but swallowed it back and said " I was hoping we could acknowledge his birthday together!"
He said "well yeah, but could we do it at the house when I come to pick him up?" Like "of course we would!"
I didn't think of that- I forgot he was picking him up tonight!
So I said "oh, okay, sure!"
When the nurse greeted us, she asked "How was your guys' 4th?" "Do you guys have A/C for the heat wave?" I got choked up and didn't answer!!! Stbxh answered "pretty good!" "yeah..."
During the appointment there were lots of q's about his eating, sleep, play, etc. I kept saying 'he does that with me, does he do it with you?' to point out that we are divorced and to make stbxh stop answering q's with "we give him cereal, we talk to him a lot, we play ball with him" etc. He needs to say "I,"
damn it!
Well I guess I am getting choked up because he was born a year ago, and I had hope back then and was praying to God that we would be together by the time he was one. It makes sense that I am a little emotional today.
I was talking to my friend about the therapist session and told her that I hope stbxh is man enough to step in if OW got rough with S or if her daughter did. I said I didn't have reason to think she would, but I just don't know what I can say about stbxh considering his messed up emotional state....are his reasoning skills out the window?
To my surprise, my friend said "Oh, stbxh would stand up for S! He has proven to be pretty reliable and involved in his life." The same friend who normally rips him apart! I hope she is right.
Happy Birthday little guy!!!
Happy Birthday to your DS!
Your therapist had some very good points. I may need to use some of his advice to you.
Thank you all for the birthday wishes! I did give him the cupcake when stbxh came to pick him up. So we sang Happy Birthday, and then S poked the cupcake and stared at it, haha!
So I cheated and tore a piece and put it in his mouth, he sort of liked it but just wouldn't play with the cupcake! So I took some of the frosting and smeared it on his face and started taking pictures. Usually, stbxh takes a bunch of pics but he didn't. So I asked him if he wanted to and he used his new iphone to do it. It dawned on me that maybe he wasn't going to take pictures because he was going to do it over at his place with OW! Maybe they are having a little birthday party for him and it really hurts!!!! WE made him, I grew him, I gave birth to him...I shouldn't have to share him with this bitch!
I told stbxh about my plans to get S' pics taken next week with my friend's photographer. He was surprised that I was getting them done. ???
Mystik, I am glad if my IC's advice could help you or anyone, because when I read others' posts about their counseling sessions, I learn from them too!
NM, just briefly...first off Happy B.day to the little guy! he's lucky to have you for a mom!
Second, don't waste your cycles trying to mind read your H. For all you know he wasn't taking pics because he was feeling guilty. Or the witch said something to him or something going on at work etc. It could be anything really. Even if he's planning to do it all over again at his place with the witch and she's acting all lovey dubby...it's all fake. It'll all come unravling sooner than later. Don't worry about it...you're the real mom and no one can take that away from you!
Hang in there and take care of yourself and DS!
Just got back from my first custody class. Am trading working out for a couple of magazines (one is a gossip mag), some of my cowboy salsa and maybe I will make some bean dip, and 2 glasses of red wine. That's all--won't be getting crazy or anything.
So the first 15 minutes were excruciating because we all sat in silence in this big room, in rows of 10. There were around 50 parents, mostly in their 30s and maybe 10 kids. Next time I will bring a book or something! I looked around and noticed that there were several attractive single dads... I actually thought, haha, maybe I will meet someone here!
Something kind of funny and disturbing is that this woman sitting 2 rows ahead had half her butt hanging out...her very white, wrinkly, very large derriere...Say No to Crack!
Well then when we got started, they divided us into 2 groups. We had to introduce ourselves and say when we were separated, and describe the custody situation among some other stuff. Some added an extra detail like "My wife filed" or "we live together still and I don't recommend it." A few people were separated for several years, but most were within the last 6 months. There were several with 2 year olds, and one with 15 month old twins who had been separated since the day she found out she was pregnant, but the dad has been involved somewhat. We didn't say if we were married or not because this class is not just for people dissolving a marriage. Oh, one dad had a 12 month old and he was letting the mom have full custody but he had been around quite a bit. ???
Then we read depressing stuff about effects of divorce on kids but then "reassuring" stuff about how they tend to adjust after a couple of years if the co-parenting goes well. Basic stuff like don't bad mouth the other parent, don't pump your kids for information about the other parent, be pleasant and businesslike in front of them when you do the exchange...
When we were asked to raise our hands to indicate where we were with the acceptance of divorce (like still raw, accepting, totally moved on)only 2 of us said it was still raw! Most people were in the middle.
And something I learned was that it is out of style to call your ex-spouse "my ex." Instead, say "S' father." It is due to the connotation that "ex" has. Hmmm.
We also read that when the father is not involved in a child's life, it tends to cause girls to think every man will leave them (when dating) and it causes boys to have difficulty with commitment, moving from romance to romance. (I paraphrased)BUT I ASKED "can a replacement father offset this damage?" And they said yes, a strong male role model like a grandfather or an older cousin, etc. can actually help the kids to be resilient.
They gave a list of all the ways involved fathers help kids be well adjusted and develop into secure adults.
Stbxh is going to feel so good about himself because he will take this class and say "see? S will be fine! I am being a great dad and even though I treated his mom like crap, he will be ok. Phew! No guilt!"
So we get to meet 3 other times. Yippee.
Tomorrow I get to take S hiking along gorgeous trails of waterfalls! So he will be delighted since he loves "the sprayer" in the shower and he loves water, period.
I love that you guys are hiking tomorrow. That's really great; it will be so fun. It will be a great time to "live in the moment"!
I hear you on the sadness surrounding S's birthday. It is sad.
The custody class sounds really interesting. I'm interested to hear more about what you learn.
Hey Nm!
You ARE and always will be S's mother!
Try not to analyze your H's thoughts...harder than heck I know!
I have not taken my co-parenting class yet...don't think H has either...I suppose I will sign up as soon as a court date is set and who knows when that will be..."I" am not pushing it!
Enjoy your hike with S!!! Will you post birthday pics on the alt? I want to see his cake face!
I already took mine and when it was over I thought STBXW and I were going to take different messages out of it.
In my class, the statistics showed that 100 percent of kids are damaged in a divorce. If co-parenting goes well then about 33 percent don't develop serious issues.
That's it. A 1-in-3 chance you won't really screw up your kids but none go through unscathed. That's the message I took.
I'm guessing STBXW will grab that 1-in-3 chance as a lifeline and push for more and more conversation between us. The class said the co-parents should talk twice a week.
That does make sense and I hope some day to be able to do that. But right now I'd rather not talk to her twice a month.
I'm guessing STBXW will quote the "we should be talking twice a week" part of the class when I'm not answering my phone when she calls during work.
Overall, it was very, very, very depressing.
I'm seeing the issues develop in D11. She spent last week with her best friend instead of camp. It was a great week. But the parents are still together so they have the advantages of an intact family -- family vacations, the latest tech gadgets, no problems signing up and getting to musical lessons.
D11 said her friend has everything she wants.
Some day, years down the road, STBXW is going to have some serious questions to answer from D11.
That is depressing...but no shocking revalations here.
NM, thank you for sharing the info and experience.
Thank you, CW-- I will get back on track! Yes, I will post those pics soon!
You know, C2H, I was thinking today that people who didn't want the divorce are going to state the stark reality (and if anyone is skeptical, read "The Legacy of Divorce" which is a 25 year longitudinal study on children of divorce. It follows them into adulthood. It is super depressing.).
But those who want the divorce will cling to the tidbits about the kids adjusting fine and push us to be happy and willing, etc.
blech!!!!
I have several tidbits to share but will post them in chunks. First...stbxh's car "sprang a leak" so he won't be able to see S tomorrow evening. He asked if he could switch to Fri. It is no problem, actually, so I said sure. But I did ask "are you getting a rental?" because he could still pick up S in a rental car. He said they ran out.
Well, how "respectful" of him...I KNOW OW has a car! He could have picked up S in her car. But he isn't.
Next tidbit...was telling my friend C about the custody class and expressing how I am just so upset that S has an increased risk for divorce, that he will have a bizarre perspective on marriage since he will have 2 homes and split half the week (although I truly want him to have the best scenario for establishing good relationships with me and his dad...and that means 50/50...but it is STILL like a weird social experiment to me...)
C said "actually, it is pretty common, unfortunately. I teach for upper middle class families and I have lots of students in this scenario. They seem fine."
Well this pissed me off! Not that I want the kids to NOT be fine--but that she (and everyone else I talk to IRL) all say "oh, he won't know any different...he has a loving mom and dad...don't worry." Well hey--who needs marriage then? Wtf? I guess we can all just sleep around and go from person to person...because
"the kids will be fine!"
So I told her calmly (remember, I save the ranting for my thread!) "C, I have to be honest- it upsets me that you and others downplay the depressing aspect of this situation for the kids. I just want someone to agree "YES. IT IS TERRIBLE and SAD that your son has to grow up like this."
So she said that she does feel that way, but since I don't have a choice and neither does S, (meaning if I want him to have equal access to his dad AND I DO!) then I should try to make the most of it or do the best I can under the circumstances.
I told her I agree, that I am not about to tell S "poor you. If your dad hadn't have been so immature and horny, we would all be a happy family under one roof." NO! (lol!) I just feel alone when others tell me "he'll be fiiiiine. no biggee!"
But I am comforted that, unfortunately, S will have other classmates and friends in the same sitch. I hope he will get to see an example of a healthy 2nd marriage in my house. I hope I will be able to stay married and that my 2nd H won't divorce me.
Then she started to go off and point out "signs" that stbxh was not healthy or a good choice for me to marry. Hmmm....wasn't it 6 months ago when she said she had no inkling or any indication that he was capable of cheating? She started to ask if I did this, or if I said that... (YES!!! I told her! and I was being honest!!!!) and then I started to feel like she was overstepping bounds...asking things that were too personal...and she said
"it's not your fault you married a sociopath."
What the....?????!!!!! I said "ok. wait. He is NOT a sociopath! I was married to him, you weren't. You know what? I'm not ready to tear him apart yet. Maybe in a few months (or never!). I know you don't like it when I cut you off and ask you not to speak but I am JUST STARTING this process. I hope I didn't make you mad! Do you understand?"
she was mad, but she said yes, she understood.
OK tidbit #3.
Went to go hiking, but we ended up eating lunch at the place, going swimming at the water hole, the kids fell asleep, we went for icecream and we never made it to a waterfall! But I will go back again this summer.
So my MARRIED friend, R, confided that she thinks she could understand how stbxh started his A with OW. She explained that she started carpooling with a fellow student in her MBA class. She said that
she has carpooled with a male student previously, but all they talked about was the class. THIS man wanted to talk about other stuff. She said they hadn't started talking too much yet about personal things but that she realized he had been looking at her in class and said some things that made her think "was he hitting on me?" She said she didn't think he could find her attractive since she is very overweight. She said he was married with 2 kids and was semi-religious. He wouldn't go there....would he? She wouldn't because she can see how the slippery slope comes about but that ultimately you have to CHOOSE to CHEAT. (thank God she gets it!)
I am still concerned. I did tell her that I was pleased that she was able to tell me, considering what she knows that I have been through, and that she is being honest. I asked her when/if she would tell her H that she has developed a crush on this guy. She said she wouldn't tell him because it wasn't necessary. It wasn't likely to be mutual and she wasn't going to do anything!
THEN she said "hypothetically, where would the opportunity be?" I told her people can always make an opportunity and take advantage of the trust their spouses have in them. She said she wouldn't do anything anyway because it is unrealistic that it would last and I reminded her "AND YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO DESTROY HIS FAMILY, RIGHT? You have seen the pain that this has caused me and S! well at least me...AND YOU ARE MARRIED TO YOUR H for LIFE and made a commitment"
I admit that I told her that yes, it is realistic to think he could go for her (thinking to myself that many of us have wondered how our spouses would go for someone who looked or acted the way our OPs do. Therefore, so what if his wife was skinny and short, he might be into a tall, beautiful but very overweight red head with big boobs)
and that if she really wanted to be serious about not getting further carried away with her crush, then she should consider not carpooling with him anymore.
And I realized that my friend "trusts herself" and "knows" she wouldn't do anything....so there's a chance that she isn't "hearing me."
Well I hope she remembers what I said about destroying a family because I was the one who had to bring that up--she wasn't even thinking of them!! Just her and him...just the ego boost of someone finding her attractive.
We talked about how the initial romance in marriage fades and then you have to meet each other's love languages and make an effort to do new things together.She lit up and told me how great her H was. But also told me how low her self esteem was.
My friend is a kind, super smart, loving, helpful person! If she is thinking of this, then see? We are all vulnerable!
About the custody and kids, I teach high school and I see how it affects the students. Many of the students from split homes do not do as well in school, especially if it is split 50/50 and the parents do not work together because then the child does not do their work or just learn to play their parents against one another. I hear a lot "I am going to just go live with my dad/mom because my dad/mom won't let me do..." I also see that a lot of these students pour themselves into relationships early in high school which is not good. Many times they learn to be lazy and helpless because no one really wants to push them to achieve higher and if one parent begins to discipline and work hard to help the child, the child rebels and just leaves for the other parent, and continually goes back and forth, which causes even more problems.
Sometimes I don't think you see the damage until the children start building relationships of their own. Either the idea that they are overly drawn to having improper relationships or that they can't commit shows up then. Sometimes when children are younger it can almost be cool because they get double everything. I know if H and I were together we would get S one big gift as his parents, but now he will get one big gift from me and one from H. They look at the immediate stuff.
The one thing that helps is that the parents are in constant contact about the child. Even in D, if the parents are both strongly involved, then the child does better. Or if it isn't 50/50 and the parent with full or sole custody remarries and sets up a good family. Then the child does much better. At least from what I have seen in high school.
Your title changed. It's just 'divor'!
About tidbit #3, yeah slippery slope for sure. I don't know if most people have this or not, but I totally had a crush on someone a few years ago from work. Nothing happened at all. But it was dangerous, and I regret it. I don't know what I could have done differently (get a new job?) but this person turned out to be a player and my interest turned to disdain after a while. (Okay, a year and a half, I'll be honest.)
I told WH about it. I think it actually plays into our sitch now. I think it created some insecurity in him that I didn't mean. I wanted WH as much as I do now and as much as I ever have. It was just an 'ego boost' as you say NM.
If we R, it will be something I bring up. Even if we don't, it may be a last resort for me before divorce. Bringing up this crush of mine and really apologizing for any damage it may have caused.
Sigh.
In saying that I don't know what I could have done differently, I do know. I should have focused on romancing WH. And I don't think I did. Regrets!
I hear you guys. I am one who would never cheat, especially now that I have gone through this. However I did cheat in college. Yeah sure, it doesn't 'count' because we were dating, not married, which is a different level of commitment, but still, it did count! Sometimes I wonder in some stupid supersitious way if his cheating on me now is some cosmic payback...but I know really, you can't compare being 19 in college to being 30, married with kids.
But yeah, I see how it can happen. You hang out with a coworker or classmate, you have some 'sparks', you joke, laugh, they make you feel good about yourself, and there is a connection. The thing is you can choose to feed that connection or starve it. People who think they can 'handle it' are usually fooling themselves....
Newmama glad you are reading that book and that you feel affirmed in who you're handling things. And no, it's not a fun read
. There really is some tough stuff to face in the parenting department. That book is very hard for me to read, but I am forcing myself. (((hugs)))
Next tidbit...was telling my friend C about the custody class and expressing how I am just so upset that S has an increased risk for divorce, that he will have a bizarre perspective on marriage since he will have 2 homes and split half the week (although I truly want him to have the best scenario for establishing good relationships with me and his dad...and that means 50/50...but it is STILL like a weird social experiment to me...)
I've been thinking about this lately. This is what I've come up with.
Life happens. Circumstances intrude. Parents get sick, lose jobs, pack up their families and move; sometimes parents pass away; kids are raised with or without extended families. They have a good or bad school experience. They live with or without family financial issues. And yes – their parents are divorced or together.
I don’t mean to be dismissive. I guess really what I’ve come to is that this is a worry that is no longer under my control. Life happened. I wonder how what the stats are on all the other variables you can think of?
Life is not ideal. It’s not supposed to be. It has challenges. Some of them suck. BUT – this will be part of their story. All we can do as parents is to use the resources at our disposal to raise them the best we can. And yeah, help them through the challenges.
People live all kinds of different lives.
So, in trying to cope with this because I have to… that’s what I’ve come up with.
You know, C2H, I was thinking today that people who didn't want the divorce are going to state the stark reality (and if anyone is skeptical, read "The Legacy of Divorce" which is a 25 year longitudinal study on children of divorce. It follows them into adulthood. It is super depressing.).
But those who want the divorce will cling to the tidbits about the kids adjusting fine and push us to be happy and willing, etc.
blech!!!!
I agree with this. Our Hs really aren't thinking about the impact their actions are having on our boys, they're too busy convincing themselves that kids are adaptable and our DSs will be fine.
Gatsby--I just wish everyone acknowledged that it is possible for us to develop feelings for someone else while we are married, that it doesn't mean we married the wrong person. ANd that we must stick to our commitment to the marriage like you did!
Geronimo, I am quickly getting to the point where I just have to make the best out of a sh!tty situation and my attitude will greatly influence S' attitude.
Mystik, you got it. Unfortunately.
OK this is my inspiration for S' chocolate cake--so not baby like! But I think starting next year, I will make him a character cake...he will get an Elmo cupcake this year! Now, I am not going to make a cake that looks exactly like this...just an interpretation!
it's the very first cake you see!
http://inspired-by-chocolate-and-cakes.com/
and I tried to make cocoa-buttercream frosting but just didn't feel it was chocolatey enough. SO I made a bittersweet chocolate sauce (2/3 c cocoa, 1/2 c brown sugar, 2/3 c milk, 1 tbspn vanilla- heat on med-high to boil, reduce to medium, cook and stir constantly for 7 minutes) cooled it, then stirred it into my plain buttercream icing. Voila--super chocolatey!
So I will to take a pic of my amature cake but it will be basic!!!!
Those pics are beautiful and the frosting sounds delicious! Looking forward to the pictures...
That's a really cute cake...mmm...chocolate!
Yummy! Chocolate!!!
oh, NM. I have been looking for a frosting recipe for the last few days. Thank you! Sounds delish.
Note to self: if it requires precision,I shouldn't even bother!!!
Arghhhh! Costco cake here I come. I tried 3 times to make the cake look somewhat decent. THREE times...that is 2.5 batches of icing I had to make, including washing all the damn tips and holder thingys, washing all the tupperware, dying and mixing all the icing, making a HUGE mess multiple times....
My little Elmo faces looked terrific.
Maybe if I am brave, I will post the pic of attempt number one, that I completed last night at by 12:30 a.m.
ah well. I blame the warm weather for making the icing runny.
You get an A for being persistent and trying it 3 times. I wish I had the patience to try it even one time! Post a pic anyway- it's all good.
Thanks Romeo...maybe my persistence came from me being able to DB so long! Wow, it is Friday again? This time last week I was hangin' at my friend C's house with S...we spent the night and then the next night I went out with J. The week flew by!
Got a busy weekend...
ziplining tomorrow a.m., BBQ tomorrow night, S' B-day party on Sunday!
Still need to email people at work about my divorce. Ugh.
Oh- and I ordered a new ring from JC Penney to wear on my right hand. It arrived today, when stbxh was over, but I didn't wear it in front of him yet. I don't know why...but I felt shy about it.
Yep, stbxh hung out on the couch in the front room while he waited for the landscaper guy to come out and give an estimate. He made chit chat and I asked him about his car. It was weird. I didn't feel anything (except the usual attraction) but no loving feelings. He provided the sperm for my egg and is the father of S.
Interested in your last line there NM! Is that how you really felt; like he was the sperm donor? That could be really good detachment at work!
Just catching up, and I can relate to the playing off the two parents thing... My parents divorced when I was 4 and I spent two nights a week, mid week, with my father. When Dad was annoying me, I ran to Mum. When Mum was annoying me, I ran to Dad. 2 birthdays, two Christmas'. I think I wasn't pushed and I think I do often act like the helpless one, wanting others to bail me out and look after me. I don't know if that is because of the split homes, or just my character.
I never saw what I lived in a negative light. We always put the spotlight on 'the best of both worlds', as both homes were quite different.
I also agree with the poster that says life is messy. It's not supposed to be neat. I wish it were neat, to be honest!!!
Life is messy...how do we deal with the mess? Clean it, sort it, give it away?
Well what a weekend and it isn't done! S party will start in about an hour. Just waiting for stbxh to drop him off. Got a cute dinosaur cake at Costco and all I need to do is write his name on it!
Also made tomato onion filo tart and cowboy salsa (both recipes I shared with you, CW! Some good vegetarian options for some of my family)
The house is clean, smells great, looks festive with 1st year Sesame Street birthday decor!
OK so ziplining...good and bad. Good was that it was peaceful flying through the air, and it felt a lot slower than it looked! Bad was "stopping." And I am a quirky gal, truly am, so I started obsessing about my inability to stop or get stuck inthe middle of the line. We had awesome harnesses and were strapped in very tight! But we had to stop using our gloved hand to "gently" glide over the top of the line then pump it.
OK so I almost didn't do it! I was about to back out when a very sweet (and good looking) tour guide asked if I wanted to go tandem! I said SURE! He stopped for me and I got to experience it and it was terrific! The downside was I kept thinking "damn it- this should have been stbxh and I!!!!!&^%$@!)
Well the group I met with were fun and I will write some more about that later. I got a pic with the guy I went tandem with (and when I get the pics I will post them on my FB page). I was giggling thinking to myself "what a hot 21 year old! Maybe he was 22?) Finally, one of the women I was with asked him his age.
NINETEEN. That was just WRONG as they say! Yikes! Must have been like the coaches on Mindfull's son's soccer team!
haha! I drove down to hang with my friends at their BBQ. OK will write more reflection stuff later...
Hope the birthday party goes well and DS has lots of fun!
19? ha ha ha! Wow, that's crazy.
Sounds like so much fun at your place, NM! I hope the party is fun. Who was coming over for it?
The party sounds so fun!!
Hard to beat those Costco cakes!
Newmama, I hope you're having a great time at the party. It's bound to be bittersweet, but I just know that you're making it all about S...good for you
.
Way to go with the ziplining
. You're so great at GAL...the rest of us are just in awe
.
Sounds like an awesome weekend NM!!! Hope the party went well!
And, good for you for ziplining! I would love to try that!
Thanks for the well wishes! The party was not bittersweet at all luckily. It was harder on his actual b-day.
But stbxh dropped off S and I did need his help for a couple of things so he was happy to oblige. I forgot that my aunt and cousin were going to show up early. So they arrived. Surprisingly, my aunt said "Hi, stbxh!" in an excited voice. ???
He kept hanging out and I was trying to hint that I was thankful for his help and he could leave now. Well why would he want to linger when I had MY family over? If I were leaving someone, I wouldn't want to hang out with their family, you know?
Anyway then everyone arrived and my cousin and I told about the ziplining adventure in between me needing to comfort and hold S because he was overwhelmed at first by everyone. Well finally I could pass him off and finish putting out refreshments, etc.
I was never sad but I kept thinking "gee it would be so handy to have another parent here to help me!"
S did eat some cake this time and some of the onion tart, too!
(I was surprised he liked it).
He got a lot of riding toys and books galore!
ok I still have more to say but now he is waking up from his nap!
So the zipline group...always like to share about my fellow divorced parents...
One man had a 20 year old, 16 yr old and 14 yr old son. He had grey hair but was in good shape. I guess his mid 40s? He was flirty and fun! It was his first meetup. He talked to me a lot but just about light stuff. I didn't share much other than I hadn't started dating yet.
Another man was probably in his late 40s. He had a 12 year old and a 9 year old. He was very adventurous...into rock climbing. he made the comment that he thinks online dating profiles make it possible for the women to be too picky...like if they see someone likes country western music but they don't like it, they immediately discount you. I get what he was saying...he also said that he thinks just because he hasn't done something they have, that it is an opportunity for him to learn it or try it with them. I get that!
There was a 28 year old voluptuous and very pretty woman who had lots of star tattoos and she had a 3 year old son. She ziplined UPSIDE DOWN! And was the life of the party. She said her dating experience has been pretty bad because the men immediately wanted to sleep with her and send dirt text messages. I asked her age range, she said 26-38.
The other woman was in her late 30s. She had a 3 year old and 7 year old and was recently divorced. She was the petitioner. She said her exh just started acting really nice and being agreeable...he was pissy and angry for awhile.
Well we might get together for a poker party next! I will find out more about their stories in the future...
At the BBQ it was strange because here I was, the single woman AGAIN. My friends met their spouses in their early-mid 20s. They have been with them for the last 11 years. I was transported to life 6 years previous...S was with stbxh and they were trying to be light hearted but said "woo hoo-- no kid responsibilities tonight. Lucky you!"
I suppressed my sadness and just said "yeah, gotta embrace the silver lining. Not to mention S gets twice as many b-day parties right?"
I kind of felt left out even though these were my best of friends. I know I am young but it still is rough "starting over" in life. Again, I know others have it worse, starting over after 10+ years of marriage.
It still sucks. I will accept it eventually.
I kind of felt left out even though these were my best of friends. I know I am young but it still is rough "starting over" in life.
I hear you newmama. I am finding it quite socially weird to start hanging out with my beloved mama friends. It doesn't feel the same because there is such a huge gap in my experience and theirs. When you're single and you hang out with married people, you see so clearly how the lives of married people are so deeply interlinked.
NM, totally agree with the rock climbing guy about what the online dating does. You have so many choices at your fingertips. If you were a non-commital type you'd probably be OK by casually dating lots of people and then see if you can find the one. However, if you wanted to find the one right off the bat, it'd be tough IMHO.
Starting over is tough...I think it's tougher for guys because girls tend to be a lot pickier. Like me I'd just want a 'normal' everyday girl who was somewhat cute- that'd be a great start. I wouldn't care about her income as long as she can pay her own bills (initially anyway). Her career, education, job, family etc wouldn't matter to me either as long as she was invested in me and we did things together.
Starting over is tough...I think it's tougher for guys because girls tend to be a lot pickier. Like me I'd just want a 'normal' everyday girl who was somewhat cute- that'd be a great start. I wouldn't care about her income as long as she can pay her own bills (initially anyway). Her career, education, job, family etc wouldn't matter to me either as long as she was invested in me and we did things together.
Well I hope there are other men who feel the same as you who live by me! Because this sounds like me! And you might want to check into teachers,then, because most of the teachers I have worked with are like this!
So here is what I have seen men request:
a woman who is not afraid to get dirty, go snowboarding in the day, hang in a dive bar, dress up for a nice dinner in the town, be wild in the bedroom. Wow, what a dream girl!
But I was thinking that although I am a clutz when it comes to sports, I could get better at being more masculine with using tools, fixing stuff....and being more daring...
Happy belated b-day to your son! And very cool on your adventure with the zip line!
I have become very handy! My stepdad got me a HUGE toolkit and bless his heart, he sat down with me for days showing me how to use each tool. I even have a big set of my own drill bits AND I know how to choose the right one to use!
He has taught me basic electrical/plumbing work. Now he is teaching me about cars. So far I learned to change a tire, change the oil, check the fluids (who knew there were so many to check? LOL!) and how to jump the battery (scary!).
My toolkit is pink and I love it! I have a mini latter and safety goggles and all of that good stuff!
Last night I snaked my bathroom drain (disgusting, if you can find a boy to do this then by all means take advantage of that!).
You can do it!
Hey NewMama!
Happy belated b-day to the baby! The years go by SO fast! Glad all went well for you.
And GabbysMom - I too remember WH holding my hand while I gave birth. All good memories! Hard to believe they could go through that amazing experience, and then turn and run. It literally makes me "See Red."
Where'd all the good guys go?
Gabbysmom - you sound a lot like me. I am 28 and all my friends are married. We all got married around the same time, and had our first children within a year of each other so like you and NM, I understand feeling awkward around the others, but they are trying to find me a new guy. They are very sweet and the husbands (all like my brothers because they are all my brother's friends from high school) help take care of S and be a good role model for him.
It is awesome that you are having fun and although the zipline guy was 19, it is definitely a confidence booster to have him choose you.
Enjoy S!
Well I have no interest in learning about cars, but learning to fix a leaky pipe, putting together furniture, installing towel racks, using electric drills/screw drivers...that sounds good!
And a tool belt is a great idea! I should get one!
Seeing Red-- the good guys are here on DB forum...they are many of the LBHs! But I don't want the chauvanistic ones...lol!
NM, you'll find guys like me everywhere...when you're ready.
CG, that's awesome! What's not to love about a girl that has her own toolbox and of course, CG is really cute too...
STBXW is pretty handy herself and after 10 years of being with me her knowledge of car mechanicals far exceeds most guy's. She can tell you the difference between a Torsen Diff and a Helical Diff
NM, here's all you ever wanted to know about the household fixes and more:
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-Complete-Photo-Repair/dp/1589234170http://www.amazon.com/New-Fix-Yourself-Manual-Everything/dp/0895778718Get yourself a starter toolset from Sears and a cordless drill/driver and you're ready to rock and roll. I don't think a toolbelt's necessary really.
Thanks for the suggestions! But I HAVE to get a toolbelt...it's like how I secretly love wearing my teacher lanyard (AT MY SCHOOL) because I feel so fortunate and proud to be a teacher! (I don't wear it in public--that is over the top and I like to have some anonymity as I drink beer at the neighborhood pub, lol!)
But I HAVE to get a toolbelt...
And they look so good with a thong! lol
just get the right color leather to contrast with your skin tone! lol
haha Whatnow! Another dress up idea for the bedroom! You are so spunky! What is WRONG with your H? (and mine and all of our cheating spouses! FOOLS!)
I don't really like car stuff either but I am glad I know a little bit just in case. It is hot and dirty under the hood and I am terrified something is going to explode in my face.
Get a fancy tool belt! Girl, I will wear my high heels and walk around with my toolbox! There is no reason to look like a lumberjack while fixing stuff! LOL!
Romeo - you said your STBX is pretty handy... my neighbor (male) was telling me a while back I was becoming too independent and it would turn men off. I thought that was a very strange thing to say! I have no patience for skittish women who act like they can't do anything... so annoying! I would drop over dead trying before I asked my H to do ANYTHING for me. And then I still wouldn't ask!
OK am feeling upset and cried...
so my tire was flat. I knew stbxh was coming over to pick up S and would be working on the list of to do items I gave him (hey- it's the LEAST he can do) so I texted him to ask if he could please show me how to change the tire.
(HEY- at least I asked him to help me, not do it for me!)
well he replied that he would be able to take it into the tire shop nearby to get it patched. (Guess you don't change a tire for every flat? Duh for me)
So I told him that I would do that once he picked up S and thanked him for explaining it to me.
He arrived, took care of the list, got some grease on his pants (haha! Won't OW ask "why do you have grease on your pants?" and he will have to tell her he was helping me! Who needs lipstick?)
So he put some air in my tire so that I could drive it to the place, then he proceeded to suggest I go to this one tire center closest to our house. I saw that it closed by 6 so as soon as he was done, and packed S in the carseat, I took off. (I didn't feel right leaving him alone at the house)
Before he left he said "let me know if you need help with the tire, ok?"
So I am driving along, and I saw his car but didn't know if he saw me or not, since he didn't wave and I was not about to wave to him!
I saw him up ahead, moving into the left turn lane. I thought to myself "why is he taking this way home? Doesn't he live further east?"
So I try to find the tire center in rush hour traffic and fail. I am headed to the other tire center. I think to myself "this sucks. I have 25 minutes to make it to the other place before it closes. It's rush hour- am I going to make it? Can I wait until tomorrow?"
(by the way I have to get this tire repaired before Wed a.m. because I am driving down south to get his pics taken)
So...after much hesitation, I call stbxh to ask him if he thought I would be able to wait until tomorrow, or would the tire leak overnight. He said "didn't you see me show you where to turn?" WELL I FELT SOOOOOOOO STUPID!!!!!
1) he took a different way home, anticipating that I would need help finding the place (he was right- I had my GPS but it didn't show up on it)
2) he was not really turning left, he was showing me!
3) he could have called me to tell me he was helping me!
4)how dare he know I was going to get lost?????grrrr!
So I said "oh, er, uh...well I will try to go back and find it. and he tried to explain where it was, I was stumped and he FINALLY said "you know, by the place where we got those steaks?"
BINGO. I knew instantly. Why the f didn't he just tell me that to begin with?
But I try to find it, miss the turn, see that traffic sucks super galore, realize I could just go tomorrow and bring a stroller to take S for a walk while they fix it.
I look down and see a text from him that says "let me know when you find the place."
When I got home I texted him "I am waiting until tomorrow. The place was closing in 15 minutes. I didn't realize you were trying to show me how to get there. Thanks for trying!"
But the messed up thing is that I was bawling! I felt so embarrassed that I couldn't find the damn place, and he was right in knowing I would get lost, and I wanted to not need him!
I didn't know that until this happened. I don't want to need his help!!!!If I had family to rely on (I don't---they are a bunch of dysfunctional flaky screw ups) I wouldn't need to ask him.
[quote]Romeo - you said your STBX is pretty handy... my neighbor (male) was telling me a while back I was becoming too independent and it would turn men off. I thought that was a very strange thing to say! I have no patience for skittish women who act like they can't do anything... so annoying! I would drop over dead trying before I asked my H to do ANYTHING for me. And then I still wouldn't ask![/quote]
Damn. read this after I posted. I feel that way now, in the moment.
But is your neighbor male or female?
And in the Art of Seduction, they mention that when women or men do something that the opposite sex normally does, we tend to find it alluring. Like men who carry their babies or push strollers...very sexy!!! I agree 100%! (But there is a line...men who wear lipstick or high heels...so not sexy! guess I am close minded, lol!)
and now I just re-read my post. In the beginning it says "it's the least he can do" (help me)
the end (after the whole tire event--gee, maybe learning some basic stuff about cars would be useful) says "I don't want to need his help!"
???????????
OK if WhatNow puts it that way...I'm all for a toolbelt NM!!
CG, STBXW knew the few basics when I met her. She grew up back east (Rochester,NY) and was a poor college student with an old beatup car. There were only a few mechanics that worked on those old cars so one of them took pity on her and showed her how to check a few things like toping-off the oil which was getting recycled by going back to the ground whenever she parked or out the tailpipe when she drove it.
Long story short, I've been an uber car nut all my life. She used to go to the race tracks with me when I was racing cars, she used to help me with any major car surgery in the garage etc. So in the process she not only learnt but also started enjoying the cars and appreciating them differently than before. She even joined a car club herself and enjoyed attending their gatherings etc.
So I guess in a round-about way what I'm saying is since I was the one that taught her all that I loved her for it. Same with the computers- so to me it's a turn-on and my fruits of love...but of course it'll be a turn off to some other guy because she posses that knowledge due to a 10 year history of ours.
In your case though since you're learning on your own to me that would be a big turn-on too. However, your neighbor does have a valid point...when women rely on us men we feel valued, we feel wanted, we want to be the rescuers, we want to fix stuff for you, we want to be your Popeyes, we like our girls to think we're the best guy on the planet for them. But that doesn't mean you can't possess skills. It's like me meeting a girl that knows how to ride bikes, that's awesome...well as long as she learnt it from her dad and not her previous boyfriend
Oh NM!!! So sorry about the tire fiasco! I absolutely hate anything that has to do with fixing my vehicle! And, you had S with you so that is even more nerve racking...hoping that it doesn't go flat again on the way! Hopefully it won't be flat again in the morning!
Don't worry about the crying...I think you must have needed a release and the tire was the trigger!
That was nice of your H to try and show you the way but it might have been nice if he had waved or texted (not while driving of course) so that you would see him and know what was going on!
NM don't feel bad. A while ago I broke down because of a broken faucet in the bathroom. I looked on the internet and after H fell through, I did it myself. I cried to him first about it not working because I was upset and overwhelmed with life, but I learned to do it myself from the internet and now am very proud of all I have learned to do (some because my step-dad is a fixer upper and some because I have taught myself).
Just pick yourself up and keep on going because for many of us single moms it is all a learning experience.
ugh what the hell? Another incident just happened! The doorbell rang and 2 men wearing the same baseball cap with some kind of logo were on the porch. I always look through the peephole and don't open the door depending...
well since stbxh has requested some estimates for the yard, I thought maybe these guys had to do with that and he forgot to tell me.
So I open it and the man says "hi. Is your husband home?"
normally, due to being alone, I say "he'll be back later." so they don't think I live alone. Well this time I just said "no."
The guy tells me "well we want to do some cement work and it affects your property. Do you have a minute?"
Guarded, I reply "just a minute." (I have had people try to sell me on work in the past....)
Turns out, the man is my neighbor and the other guy is his dad, who owns the house next door. The tree roots messed up the sidewalk and they want to fix it at no cost to us. Is that ok?I say that I will need to check with stbxh...we are getting a divorce and he will be back soon to return my son. The neighbor says "I'm sorry. You just had a new little one, right?" He introduces himself and so do I.
So I say yes, he is a year old. Then I say that I will talk to stbxh tonight and if he says no, I'll let them know. Then I said that I am sorry that I haven't introduced myself earlier (like 5 years earlier). That I am a private person but I should know my neighbors!
hopefully that will explain why I was so guarded and bitchy!
But ughhh...it made me feel another example where basically,
I needed to defer to stbxh for something!!!!
ok just got a lesson from stbxh on how to use the air compressor and use the pressure guage (sp?) to fill the tire if it goes low over night. I told him about the neighbor and the sidewalk.
I swear he had this amused look on his face!! I feel sooo angry!
Maybe it has something to do with being the rescuer like Romeo was talking about...like he enjoys this?
just sent my Bunco group the email telling them I am getting a divorce. My heart is beating fast!
Also....there has to be a full moon....or something cosmic...
about a month ago, I emailed a guy from the zoo brew meetup, asking him if he wanted to go out for a beer sometime this summer. I just received an email from him asking me if I want to meet with him this week!
I am going to meet with the guy. I shouldn't even tell you this since I keep saying "I'm not ready!" (but damn it I have been checking guys out like crazy over these last couple of weeks! Just looking....). Am waiting a little bit longer before I reply to his request to meet tomorrow night (ha ha! don't want to be too eager!) and you know something? I have to go to another custody class tomorrow night, so I think it will be refreshing to have some laughs with this guy right after!
And in 2 days it will be 30 days since stbxh gave me divorce papers. But almost 16 months since he left me for THE WHORE.
(((NM))
Sorry I totally missed your post about the tire fiasco...you must type fast...and I can't keep up with your thread
So the tire...yes if the leak is really slow you can put some air in it and drive to the store. If not, then out comes the spare tire (hopefully you check it every now and then to make sure it has air!). OK it's not that hard to change a flat and there are probably tons of videos on youtube showing you what needs to be done. You can also rely on the good looking, AAA guy if you have the membership, in fact, most cell phone plans and credit cards offer roadside assistance program if you're wearing a skirt and don't want to deal with it.
Good for you that you learned how the air compressor and gauge work...see wasn't tough now was it? If you can give birth and bring a person into this world jeez you can do anything!
Cement work stuff...it's OK! most guys wouldn't know this stuff either so it's better to ask questions like 'how will this affect anything on my property?' 'how long will this work take?' 'will the cement color match or no?' until you're satisfied...and the next time you'll know more than most guys.
Well as far as the amusing look on your H's face...I think it was just your imagination. He's the one leaving you why would he be amused that you're asking for advice? Even so, who cares? what does it change? nothing! you should feel good that even though he claims he likes the OW you can still get him to help you with all this stuff.
So you're not kidding you've been busy checking out guys
thank you for the compliment on my silly pic btw! You're not only cute you seem to love to laugh- that's attractive! People want to be around those who are laughing and enjoying life.
So this guy you're meeting...I think it's good as long as it's just a casual friendly sort of a thing. Goodluck!
Have fun newmama
. You're a big girl
(as in smart, mature
)
Romeo- waiting for that pic with a smile!
Thanks for the advice and encouragement and I will wear a skirt tomorrow when I take in the car!
lol flowmom- not BIG girl? Ok just got off the phone with the zoo brew guy...he was up late and asked if I wanted to talk! So we talked for a couple of hours. At first I thought "damn it- why can't we talk tomorrow on the date? why do it all now?"
So zoobrew was 44 years old-- I thought he looked 39 or 40 when I saw him last. I was a little disappointed at first (10 years older could be a generational deal breaker, if you know what I mean).Luckily we liked several of the same bands. He also was rather serious at first. I told him my age and he said 30 was the youngest he would go and 46 would be the oldest. Holy crap- he hasn't seen Whatnow!! But I doubt he would guess her age anyway!;)
We started talking religion right off the bat! HIS choice of topic...but then I figured out that he was nervous. By the middle of the conversation, I was feeling intimidated because he grew up well to do, had a happy family growing up, was a good Catholic alter boy, was very "together..." he described some things about his ex wife that actually matched ME and he wasn't saying them in a complimentary way...
Well we talked surface level about our divorces,his wife CLEARLY had an MLC and he sort of guessed that stbxh cheated on me.I am not going to just come right out and say it! But surprisingly, it seemed to not phase him. I guess because it made sense why I have a 12 month old and am getting a divorce? Somehow it came out that we are being amicable and that I am not taking stbxh to the cleaners. He was very impressed with that and said it is amazing that I have been so "mature" about this all..that his lawyers encouraged him to do and say things that weren't helpful in hindsight.
He asked me if I had dated much and I said "nothing serious" and he said "and how has it been going?" YIKES! So I LIED and said "well not too horrendous but nothing spectacular" I didn't feel good about lying. But I was not about to tell him "you are my first date since my stbxh." I did let him know that my divorce just started but we had been separated for a long time previous. He said he had a few flings right after being divorced, then saw someone exclusively for a year and broke up in April. I didn't ask the particulars.
We are meeting tomorrow at 8:30 (PST) at this pub I hadn't been to, so of course I will report on it afterward.
Ok off to bed....S will be awake in 6 hours OR LESS!!
Ditto with me and my H. All last summer, I would call anytime something happened with the house or with S, but he would yell at me. One time I called to ask him about going to the hospital with S because he fell off the bed and his ear was swollen. I got yelled at and another time I called to ask him to get S some vapor pads for his humidifier because he had just started coughing bad and was sleeping. I was told to wake S up and take him to the store to get them myself...
Be thankful that although things are not perfect and you are Ding that stbxh is willing to help you.
Yeah, I guess I don't have it that bad...sometimes I wish my stbxh would behave like that so it would be easier to hate him! But I wasn't kidding when I said he really was a good guy up until the A!
Jeez, these guys are so immature, wrapped up in themselves.
Anyway, as for the little things like a check engine light, wiper blades, battery testing/install, light bulbs etc go to your local Autozone/Kragen etc and they'll do it for you free if you buy the parts from them. As I said lots of youtube videos show you how to do just about anything these days not just the car stuff. Plus I'm sure there are lots of home-improvement forums like this one...believe me lots of guys out there will help a girl out.
It really is so true. I have a friend at my church who said he would side my entire house if I buy the siding so I could get better insulation (I have a very old house with wood siding and probably little to no insulation). Plus he said then he could get word of mouth for his company because many houses in my neighborhood need residing.
So many people will help. You just have to know where to look.
You asked if there was something cosmic? Why yes, the solar eclipse on the 11th. So you could feel it huh?
kat
OH so that is what that was...I will assume the effects lingered into the next day?
So presently I am killing a little time before I go to my custody class...I have my outfit ready! Nothing too dressy but still a cute top! (I hope) Too bad I totally need a hair cut! Oh well.
Stbxh arrived to get S but I wasn't all done up...it's funny because I have a real date, and realistically I knew I would have time to get ready after he picked up S. Before, I was "being mysterious" and would be dressed up on purpose.
Oh and I am getting some replies from my co-workers. 3 people just said "I am so sorry. Please let me know if you need babysitting or if you want to talk." One person said "were there problems for awhile? Sorry to pry." haha!
I am not going to say anything for now...just reply "thank you for your concern! I appreciate your support."
Oh and I got a package addressed to stbxh!!! I was so annoyed at first but I texted him "yougot a package..." and he said "it's probably from my mom for S. You can open it if you like."
I SHOULD HAVE JUST SAID "ok thanks" but I said "ok thanks. WHy doesn't your mom just address it to S? haha!" The reason why I added "haha" was because I thought it would have sounded so bitchy without something at the end. So he just wrote back "who knows?????" I COULD have said "why doesn't she send it to YOUR house?" but I refrained.
I COULD have said "why doesn't she send it to YOUR house?" but I refrained.
You can ask her when you call to thank her! Ya know MIL, stbx's mail will soon be forwarded increasing the liklihood of things getting lost! Wouldn't want that to happen! Especially to such a nice ____________.!
Have fun after you get through with the class!!
A LOT to report...good info from the class and the date went really well! But I am about to pack up and head out to visit my friend and get S' pics taken. So will need to post more details later.
1)we talked for 6 hours, and share many common interests. That wasn't supposed to happen!
2)I kissed him good night! Tickly goatee (men--why???? just shave that face!)
3)just interesting--he said "women these days" (he IS 44, lol!) are too aggressive and possessive. He didn't seem to care for the sexually forward attitude although he wasn't chauvanistic. He did like it that I asked him out though and was really surprised. Well I wasn't the one who moved in for the kiss (I never am--won't initiate the kiss first and won't express my feelings first!)I did let him know that I was not looking for anything serious but didn't mean I was going around sleeping with a bunch of men...it was tricky actually! I thought if I just said "I am casually dating right now" he would get it but he pressed me for details.
4) I was asleep with the doorbell rang this morning for stbxh to drop off S...and I could still smell zoobrew's cologne on me!
HA!
5)I am dying to communicate with him but I won't!
ok gotta run!
Just because you asked, you can feel the effects of an eclipse 3 days on either side. So yes even today. There is also a Grand Cross coming which is supposed to amount to HUGE changes all over the place, not just on a personal level. So lots of stuff will be happening.
Glad you had a fun date.
kat
Hey NM
2)I kissed him good night! Tickly goatee (men--why???? just shave that face!)
Don't hate.
Glad to see you getting out there and not curling up and dying.
I saw our post on my thread and was wondering how one hooks up on FB from these posts w/o giving too much info.
Thanks for follow my sitch and posting , I will in return do the same.
TC, gr8
Hi NM!!! Can't wait to hear the rest of the story!
Glad you had a good time last night!
A kiss?!
Sounds like a fun night.
Hey nm!!! Sounds like exciting things are happenin'! Yippee!
So lots of stuff will be happening.
I've noticed the new moon has an effect on nm! hmmmm....
I saw our post on my thread and was wondering how one hooks up on FB from these posts w/o giving too much info.
Make new acct with your DB name. Is that what you mean?
Sounds like a great night! Looking forward to "hearing" more about it.
So glad that you had fun newmama. You deserve it! He must have been very attractive for things to go on that long and end that way
.
And thanks for sharing...nuns like to live vicariously
.
And thanks for sharing...nuns like to live vicariously
.
I was thinking the same thing!
Now that's just sad...
Haha about the nuns comment! How long do you need to be "abstinent" to count as a nun though? Does November 2008 make me eligible? Or does just kissing someone mean I can't stay in the club?
OK so here are some more details about the date....not enough to cover 6 hours though!
YES he was very attractive! He was better looking than when I saw him at the zoo brew... you see, he was wearing a baseball cap and t-shirt at the zoo brew. On Tues night he had no hat (and no hair but a nice tan bald head...I think tan bald heads are sexy!) and a long sleeve button up lightweight white cotton shirt and jeans. He has green eyes, neatly trimmed goatee, and is maybe 5'7"? Not too much taller than me. I was worried that maybe I had beer goggles on when I saw him at the zoo brew but guess not!
OK well the conversation only paused for like a couple seconds at most, and my favorite part was that he did 2 things that (in my experience) men I have dated rarely do on the first date:
1) INITIATE conversation topics
2) ASK ME about myself
So we had some little silly things in common, like we both loved the same beer, we both loved Lebanese food, we both enjoyed the same things recreationally, so far I think we have similar values...but I can't tell how many because the conversation was ping pong, to different tangents and stories, etc! So there is more to find out about him--and my curiosity is peaked of course!
But we did have some big differences: he grew up in a family of 12 adopted brothers and sisters- every one was adopted! He grew up well off financially, he lived in Europe for part of his life, he was married once before...he said it was when he was in college, they knew each other for a year, got married and divorced 1.5 years later. I thought it was funny how he slipped it in like "oh yeah, before I forget I have to tell you I was married once before, but it was a stupid mistake when I was younger, haha!" At least he was honest, right? And because he was married for 15 years when his wife left him, I thought "ok. This guy wants commitment!"
At the beginning of the date, I thought "hmm...good looking, fun to talk to...but I don't think I would be interested for anything serious. By the middle I was thinking 'uh oh, this guy is boyfriend material...he shouldn't be wasted on a fling...can I have a boyfriend already?' and by the end I was thinking "I can't wait to see him again! Are we soulmates?" (JUST KIDDING! But I did want to see him again) But here are a couple of things that I remember he mentioned...
*he said his last girlfriend wanted to have a baby but he realized she was more career driven and since he works from home (internet business), he would most likely end up being a stay at home dad while trying to work. He knows from raising his 3 kids that you don't get a lot of work done from home when you are taking care of kids. PLUS his girlfriend was jealous of the time he spent with the kids although she got along with them very well.
*he asked me if I wanted to have more kids. I expressed that originally I wanted 2 but that was happy with one, especially since I would worry that S would feel like he was "the half child" if I had another one. He said he had thought the exact same thing before! And said "you never know...you might change your mind..."
my point is that even though he is 44 he is open to more kids.
*About 1 a.m. he told me that he and his exW had lots in common, great sexual chemistry, she was/is an excellent mother... BUT sometimes they would be out camping or something and he would be pondering about "life" so to speak...and she would have NOTHING to say. I just nodded but he smiled at me and I had the impression that he liked the fact that I liked to talk because he also said
*he was surprised we had talked for 2 hours the night before...said the time flew by! But I won't mind read...it just was my impression
*He was very tuned into stages of divorce and said I was still in the grieving phase...that when he was in that phase he met a terrific woman but pushed her away because he wasn't ready to handle a serious relationship
*I had told him that I needed to leave by 1 a.m. so that I could get some sleep before greeting my son at 6 the next morning. But when I finally asked him what time it was, it was 2:15 and he said "oh, ooops....forgot to watch the clock for you!"
*He asked me like 3 times why I wanted to go out with him...why I emailed him after barely talkign to him at the zoo brew! I just explained that I was instantly attracted to him and was impressed with his dedication to his kids and we both went to the same college....and he was funny and confident and I wanted to get to know him more! I asked him if he had noticed me and he said yes, but that (51 year old) guy was with me all night!
*We both said we enjoyed the date and wanted to do it again and found each other attractive. I had asked him "so are you enjoying yourself?" (dumb question I know) and he said "I wouldn't be here with you if I wasn't! Yes, I really am having a good time"
* he was direct with questions and would ask "does that make you uncomfortable? Is it okay that I asked you that?" he didn't ask anything inappropriate, it's just that I thought you aren't supposed to talk about your previous relationships on the first date! you know?
*we both stood by the cars and I said "I had a great time! I hope we can do something again some time!" and he said something like he had a good time too and we should do something again. Yikes, I don't remember verbatim...but he said "so, no kiss on the first date? or..." and I said "oh, a KISS is okay on the first date!" and he said "well and you have to see if it's true that I am a good kisser!" (because he told me he was earlier in the night and I gave him a hard time and said "I don't believe you...prove it!" Where is this flirting coming from????) So he threw his gum out and kissed me, but he pulled away first. Then he "put" me in my car and closed the door for me and we waved goodbye.
I haven't heard from him yet...and am trying to think if anything I said or did may have caused him to not want to see me again? But I reminded myself that back in the dating days before stbxh, the men took 2-3 days,sometimes a week, before they called back. And I also remember that on Wed this week he was with his kids. He said when he is with his kids they get his FULL attention.
Oh and I am telling myself that if we never speak again, at least it was good "practice" and proof that great guys are out there! And that if I don't hear from him, I wasn't plannign on dating anyway!
tonight when stbxh picked up S he said "I forgot to ask you how ziplining was!" ANd I said "it was good...less scary than I thought...I had some issues with "stopping" but got some help! I think I would go again!"
And didnt' go into any more detail than that! I just am smiling though because it has been how many days since I went and he is asking me now? Could it be that YESTERDAY morning, (when I saw him last) he smelled the cologne? heh heh!
Oh NM!
Your date sounds wonderful!
Don't worry about him not calling you yet! YOu are way too cool to be worrying about a phone call from a guy!
He probably doesn't want to scare you away!!!!
Thank you CW! He texted me about 7:30 (90 minutes after my post!)
Here is what we said:
him 7:26: Hey (clever nick name)! Thanks for a fun evening the other night!
zoobrew
****had to consult my friends on how to reply****
me 7:43 :Hi (wanna be clever nick name)! sorry-didn't have a zoobrew nickname lol! had a great time too!
him 8:13:lol. So I guess I'll let you take me out next. You pick a spot or something interesting for us to do and let me know chica!
*****had to put S down to sleep and consulted a friend to figure out how to reply****
me 8:30: well I would love to discuss some options with you!
can you talk tonight?
him 8:33:Wish I could but I'm headed out for a dinner party. Can I call you manana por favor?
****I truly have another super full day tomorrow and was thinking of what to say like whether or not I should tell him I was busy which could sound rude or tell him a time of day or what. SO after much contemplation I said:
me 8:37: That sounds like fun! Ok talk to you manana! Hasta la vista (his name in Spanish)
him 8:39: Muchas gracias y tacos y burritos mi amiga!
***** I wanted to say "laugh out loud" in Spanish but could not remember!! So I took the time to look it up online and replied
me 8:43:riase an voz alta! yes I had to look up that translation online to be clever!
so that was that. Phew! But now I have to come up with a cool idea! I have so many jokes going through my head but a few options serious in mind....
Oh and the magic of dating to get your WAS or stbxh to act weird...
So stbxh drops off S, lingers like normal, discusses what time to pick him up on Saturday (I say 1ish? He says or earlier if you need!)
Then I try to put S in his crib but he wasn't ready.I hear the doorbell. It's stbxh! He has my mail...guess he still has a mail key. I say "Oh..." in a way that is obviously me feeling weird about him giving me the mail! And he says "there was a lot in there!" I almost said "well I haven't had a chance to get to it since I've been gone a lot" but instead said "oh really? ok..thanks! See you later!"
And I feel kind of bad for some reason like I was being mean! whatever...he chose to throw me away....
Funny how that works. The thought of me with another man drove my H nuts. I wondered if he pee'd in your bushes on his way out. You know...to mark his territory.
Funny how that works. The thought of me with another man drove my H nuts. I wondered if he pee'd in your bushes on his way out. You know...to mark his territory.
LOL, bluestar! I nearly spewed water at the monitor with that one!
NM, the date sounds like it was a good one! And a second date already? I'd say he's interested. And get your mail key back from H. He has no reason to have it still, he doesn't live there anymore.
NM, i love hearing the story about your date! He sounds really sweet. I love the story of the text exchange.
Keep 'em coming!
So glad you had fun on your date. It is always refreshing to find a good guy after what has happened, even just a fun guy to help you get used to dating again.
Hey, sounds like you had a great time NM
And thanks for sharing...nuns like to live vicariously
.
And us monks, too.
No wonder the whole church system's having problems
What? Didn't look in for a few days and look what fun I've missed! I am loving this story. Go girl!
Just a quick update...zoobrew called on Friday about 7 just as I was finishing dinner with my friend and was putting S in the car. He loved my kayaking idea (and the other one I came up with) and we were trying to figure out when to meet up next since he has kids next week etc. We were just briefly chatting because I had my friend with me and he was on his way to cheer up a buddy whose wife just left him. He asked about my day and I told him (mom and brother visited, went to visit my friend and go out to dinner, returning home and going out later). We had a hard time figuring out when to meet up but he said "we don't have to figure it out right now!" But he will be calling back later so we can figure out a time. I said I could get babysitting for S if need be and he said he could always rearrange his schedule with his exW if need be. Otherwise I won't see him until more than a week from now! We did chat a little about some other stuff--he asks a lot of questions!
My friend thinks he was trying to meet up with us because he was asking where I was going out. I didn't think so-- he was just curious. He did ask a couple of times...like where, what area... but HE WASN'T invited! lol! And I am sooo glad I didn't have him meet up with us because we went to a total meat market place! My friend (married but feeling like "an old has been" felt great to be hit on by men...from 23-30! She of course wasn't doing anything inappropriate and was not initiating any flirting!
We went to a dark, scummy bar after that was blasting monster rock music! blech! These were based on J's choices.
Now I am trying to keep my options open and consider other men as well...but am having difficulty because I just want to see zoobrew again! Still, I know I don't want to get too attached or too excited. But golly gee, I hope he likes me!
Sounding good NM!!!
NMM,
So glad to hear you're having fun. Keep us posted on where your new romance is going, sounds like a good start. All the best.
Just a journal or something...tonight I went to an outdoor concert at a place stbxh and I went to 3 times before...with C and her H. It was an awesome band and I had fun of course. But I would have intermittent flashes of memories from times stbxh and I were there...and I kept thinking "I am reclaiming this place!"
I still got caught up crying every now and then. I was drinking beer but still....I think it would make me sad anyway.
THEN later, when we were eating afterward, I suddenly got so upset with my friends about stbxh....I insisted they own up to the TRUTH which was that stbxh WAS a good person and great to me UNTIL the A! That they could not and should not lie and re-write their opinion of him during that time period and say that I married the wrong man! That he WAS TRULY a nice, good, fun man!
I think something triggered me to think that they wanted to label him as 100% evil bastard from 2004 to present day when actually it was more like 2008- present.
So we got into a heated discussion at first that ended well with hugs. I know my gut, damn it! And my gut was telling me something like they were re-writing our history and just because I made some positive comments like stbxh always remembered names for me, was awesome with directions, (BUT ALSO made sure I was taken care of, cuddled and kissed me in public, listened to me, cooked for me, joked with me, KNEW how I was feeling, supported me) didn't mean that I didn't understand that he was messed up for doing what he did. But that I didn't imagine or use rose colored glasses or dream that things were like that...it was TRUTH it was REAL. And it is part of the grieving process for me to acknowledge the good parts of my life with him. And that it doesn't mean I am not moving on! It means I am mourning what was.
I think they got it.
ok there is such a thing as TOO MUCH GAL! need to chill out this week and I bet S does too....since I took him with me to so many places. But he has been standing by himself, babbling up a storm and I really am excited to see him when stbxh drops him off!
I just found a man from my ziplining group on a dating site. I remember being attracted to him (not as much as zoobrew but it was there) and enjoyed his voice! He also seemed interesting to talk to!
He indicated he was casually dating--just like me. So I emailed him and we'll see what happens. The thing is that he is in the same meetup group as zoobrew. But we go to different events so it's not like they would say "hey! Guess what? I went out with newmama! did you?"
What's funny is that he is very tall (to me at least! 6'2"?) and has a full head of silver hair. But it has always been that way I guess. Well zoobrew is short for a guy and is bald! Guess I don't have a prototype, lol!
OK need to consume a bunch of vegetables and fruit to "detox" from beer and bar food! I must say that I did a good job writing the post while intoxicated-except a few swear words. Sorry! blush face!
Oh Nm you make me laugh! I wondered if you had had a few when you wrote your post last night!
Glad you had a good time! I was afraid last weekend when I went to my hometown that if I drank that I would "lose it" in front of someone but I think I was having so much fun that I didn't...thank goodness!
Do you think that your girlfriends were just "having your back" so to speak??? So glad that you made up and hugged!
You are very brave emailing guys!
I have always been a little shy and cannot even imagine doing that!
Hope you have a restful few days! Give S a huge hug!!!!
Too much GAL, woohoo!
I'm glad you pushed through in the convo with your friends. I completely understand that whole thing and I'm glad you stood up for what you know!
NM, not sure if it's the same thing but I too was protective of STBXW, still am to some degree. When people want to say bad things about her (of course they do it just to show their support towards me) it makes me a bit edgy and I try to change the topic. Of course I like it when my DB friends do it because they 'get it' my other friends don't really understand the whole thing as well so I hate it when they try to demonize her. Weird huh?
Look at you...you're checking out the dating sites and all! hey I say good for you! So Zoobrew is bald as in no hair or a shaved head? I know shaving your head was in for a while.
CW- I guess I am not afraid of rejection right now, after having been so deeply rejected and hurt more than I ever could imagine! So nothing else is so bad, you know? But going out with zoobrew was a gift even if I didn't see him again. When I went out with him, I totally knew I WAS ready for dating! Because I was enjoying myself and felt comfortable with him and was able to give him a kiss goodnight!
Gatsby and SR-thanks for your support about the conversation. It needed to be said that is for sure!
SR-zoobrew went bald, and now shaves his head. Stbxh was going bald....the thing is, that it is a fact: Many men will go bald. Ever since Luke Piccard (sp) I knew I was able to be attracted to bald men AS LONG AS I found their eyes and smile attractive! lol!
P.S. CW- I make the first move and then they have to be the one to follow up! Emailing is a lot easier than asking in person!
OK well I don't know how realistic this is to date more than one person because schedules are tough enough as it is... trying to coordinate with kids and work etc. But I do have another date with the zipliner that we just need to nail down. Because zoobrew has his kids this week, I am saving Wed but am planning on Thurs. If he can't make it on Thurs (this guy), then I will say that I will contact him soon to see if we can set something up later!
Then this Rugby entrepeneur guy (33)emailed me back and wants to talk to me on the phone before meeting me. I have the connection with zoobrew to compare to but I also think in the back of mind "don't like zoobrew toooo much! you will get disappointed!" so the time in between seeing him will help. But he set the bar high!
I wonder if I am dating more than one person just because that is what they say to do? I am a one man woman usually.
Try it for a bit and see how it goes. Sometimes we don't think we'll like something just because it's not what we usually do! Good to see you stretching your comfort zone just a bit.
Here is my Cainer horscope:
Your Week Ahead Part Two - Love Focus: You are finally making a break with a part of the past that you thought would hang over you forever like some dark, depressing cloud. Why then, are you loath to celebrate? Because you remain unsure about the permanence of that progress. What if things slip back to the way they used to be? Continue, by all means, to be cautious about eggs that have so far failed to hatch. But be aware that there are some actual chickens. These need feeding. Go beyond your fears and forget the anxious feelings that have lately made life so stressful. Sooner than you think, almost all your feelings will be genuinely good feelings! A rare 'Cosmic Cross' is happening! This 'T-Square' will bring change to the world... and it will bring change to YOUR life. If you're ready for it, it can be a time of unparalleled opportunity.
lol! wow, this is pretty creepy!
OK A QUESTION: It has been 30 days since stbxh served me with divorce papers. Should I ask him what happens next? Or just let it be?
today's horoscope:
You have come a long way... but you've still got a long way to go. How much are you enjoying the current section of your journey? You may wish you could move things on more quickly but you are not the only driver. This week, you can press on the imaginary accelerator as much as you wish but you would be better off using your time more constructively. There are precious sights to see and valuable encounters to enjoy. Don't worry that you'll be stuck where you are now forever. Appreciate what's good about it while it lasts. ..a rare, powerful alignment now touches all our lives.
haha! I am not the only driver! Ok off to catch up on some news and then run some errands with S (stopping at the park for him, of course!). I can't wait to go back to work though. Need the mental stimulation!
Hi NM! You are sounding so good! Love it that you are keeping all your mind open and it does seem that you are ready to get out there and "do this thing"!!!
The key will be to go slow and not fall fast and hard for someone!
Your horoscope is kinda scary isn't it??? Not that it is saying scary things but that it seems to be pretty accurate at the moment!!!
Hey Courageous Wife,
Check out Cainer.com for your free horoscope. I usually just follow them for fun, but this guy seems to unerringly accurate. Kinda creepy.
Mine (Leo) says something I've been waiting for a long time will happen this week. I'm anxious to see what it might be as I have several things besides my marriage that I've been working on for some time. Can't wait for the rest of the week! Too bad it's only Monday, lol!
And it is part of the grieving process for me to acknowledge the good parts of my life with him. And that it doesn't mean I am not moving on! It means I am mourning what was.
NMM,
I agree with you about this. I've acknowledged my H's good qualities to friends and family whom i've shared my sitch with as well. I believe by acknowledging that my M was not all bad, I am less likely to become bitter and more likely to continue to believe in R and M.
I like to think that my H's lack of commitment to our M is but a flaw in his character, as none of us is perfect. And it is a flaw in my character to look pass hints of H's withdrawal from our M. In acknowledging my responsiblitt for where my M is, I believe I would be less likely to make repeat the same mistake.
OK need a little dating advice...I am kinda rusty you know!
Last night, I still hadn't heard from zoobrew so I kept getting this feeling that I should reach out.
I wasn't going to because he has his kids this week and made some comment or 2 last time I saw him about how he focuses 100% on his kids when they are there.
I mean we ARE going on a second date for sure, but something kept telling me that I should text or call him!
So I did send a friendly text that said something like hello and looking forward to setting up our kayaking adventure~
He he replied in French at first then I asked him how he was and he said he just got back from a late night walk with the kiddos and is about to settle in for a late night movie with them.
Well I smiled so big when I read that! I thought "awww! What a fun dad!I never got to do that kind of stuff with my dad!"
So I replied something like that the kids were lucky and to have a good evening.
He replied that last night he had them in bed by 9, but since it was summer, and since he has the kids every other week, he makes the most of the time he has with them.
I wondered if he misinterpreted my comment since he sounded a bit defensive (DAMN TEXTING!) so I just replied with something like Absolutely, the summer's great! I won't keep texting you but have a good night!
He replied with "please don't feel that you are intruding...You're not! :)"
So I didn't reply because 1) I didn't want to keep texting him while he was with his kids, watching a movie 2)How many times do you say "Good Night" 3) I really was pretty tired 4)I don't want to come on too strong and push him away!
Last Friday when we briefly chatted, we kind of mentioned something about maybe going out this Wed. I said that I could get babysitting, he said he could talk to his ex, and then he said "well we can figure it out later!" I might have said "Ok let's touch base soon!" and that was that.
NOW MY QUESTIONS- Was I supposed to be the one to call him next since he called me on Friday? Is it too late now to ask him if he can do it tomorrow night? Should I wait for him to call me next?
I did set up possible babysitting (just in case but can cancel no problem)
Thank you! Being married is easier than dating, I swear! (har har- you guys of all people know I am kidding)
NM, my advice just be yourself. We're not in highschool anymore and I hate the dating games. As long as we're not pushy and can read the signals in order to reciprocate who cares what the dating rule book says?
Also I don't think he was being defensive about the kids...I think he was trying to impress you by saying he knows summers are supposed to be fun and a bit of 'appropriate' spoiling of the kids is OK with him.
Finally, just like with other things in life you're allowed to make a mistake or two. If not you don't want someone like that anyway.
If it feels OK to YOU then call him and ask him about tomorrow night or give him another option to choose from because he could have plans for tomorrow night.
Thanks guys! Well, Romeo, you said to be myself! So true...basic and simple..but have you not been following my threads for the last 10 months to see how anxious I can get? lol! Still, you are right. When I am interested in someone, I want them to show their ineterest in me. So here is what I think and what I need regardless of game playing etc.
Last night, I reached out to him via text (hoping we could talk on the phone if his kids were in bed).
But now I would like him to show his interest in seeing me by calling me next (or texting). I did say I wanted to set up our kayak date!He knows I am interested!
There is a "dance" to expressing interest vs. being too pushy! Think of what we have learned with DBing!
I also need to remember there is no rush!
I hear you NM! all of us get anxious and need advice for our situations. Others can advise us because they're removed from the situation and can take a 1000 ft view of things. But you're smart and your instincts are pretty good...believe that
But now I would like him to show his interest in seeing me by calling me next (or texting). I did say I wanted to set up our kayak date!He knows I am interested!
See what I mean? you answered your own question
and that's a perfectly reasonable expectation.
The only concern I have is, not necessarily you but him, making similar assumptions and having certain expectations and without saying anything we sometimes end up ruining a good thing. Like for example he might think "well she said she's going to set it up so I shouldn't act pushy and let her tell me the plans when she's had the time to work on them. I did say I was interested in the kayak trip"
Of course, this is just my PoV because this was the problem in my marriage. STBXW had expectations of me which I didn't know about and vice-versa which built up resentment and the feelings of 'he/she doesn't care about me'.
Of course, this is just my PoV because this was the problem in my marriage. STBXW had expectations of me which I didn't know about and vice-versa which built up resentment and the feelings of 'he/she doesn't care about me'.
I can kind of relate..."assumptions" are dangerous! I think stbxh wanted me to know what he was thinking.
I had an "aha" this afternoon....it was that the things stbxh and I had in common were not always good...
+both conflict avoiders
+both guarded
+both needed admiration (who doesn't?)
+both didn't want to hurt the other.....
hmmm.
today's horoscope:
Pick up one foot, put it down. Pick up the other, do the same. Repeat the process. Don't look at the length of the road down which you must travel. Just remember why you decided to embark on your journey in the first place. It seemed like a good idea at the time... and it still is. You are now, though, dealing with reality rather than theory. That's like the difference between looking at a train timetable and actually catching a train. It involves a lot more - and takes more out of you... but it is also a lot more productive.
So stbxh came to pick up S. I asked him about the yard...did he have any more estimates? He said he was thinking of just renting a tiller and putting in seed himself in the front yard and getting dirt to put in the back yard to fill it.
????
So I just said "sure." WHat I wanted to say was "WHEN? You've been talking about putting in grass for 2 months now!"
And why is he deciding to do it himself now? Save money?
Oh and I am about to go to my custody class tonight (#3...one more to go, thank goodness!). I think I will walk around the neighborhood (it's gorgeous!) and
Oh and zipliner's emails are SO SERIOUS! Sheesh! If I hadn't have met him at the meet up, I would not think he had any sense of humor! I realize we are just communicating about where to meet and when but here is a sample (excerpts):
him: What area of town are you in? I'm in---. Lets meet in the middle and share a beer.
me:"Well I would like to have a beer to myself if that's ok! (ha ha)"
him: "I just moved from( my area) just down the street from (my neighborhood) Too bad we didn't meet sooner. How about __ at 6:30?"
me: "No kidding? I live right by ___ Elementary!! "
him: Neat. I'll see you Thursday.
Ok well tonight I am torn between keeping my phone open in case zoobrew calls or calling Rugby man (Bobbi Jo, you inspired me to nickname these men from the nicknames you gave your internet dates!)
I mean Rugby has kids this week (he also does week on week off...why couldn't he have kids next week? lol!) that need to be in bed at some point and I told him I would call him this week, maybe tonight...but I think there is a good chance zoobrew will call me around 9:30! argh!
My plans before I knew I would be suddenly dating this summer:
this week:
+work on reducing clutter/organizing bedroom/bagging stuff to give away
+work out
+maybe go to the beach (but after last week I am postponing to next week)
+maybe meet SIL for lunch on Thursday
+clean out spare bedroom to make room for free king size bed (don't know if it will even fit!)
+take S to nature park tomorrow for walk
+take S out to zoo Friday (I have a membership)
+on Saturday, going out with friends!
Good for me goals: clearing out clutter (but realistically will need daycare next month to do this), working out, READ A BOOK: I have "The Mists of Avalon" that I bought FIVE YEARS AGO!!!
So my point is that regardless of dating, life goes on!
NM, you go girl!
I have to admit I'm a little jealous because you're getting to go on all these dates and I'm not lol
Hey NM, i have to catch up on your thread! Sounds like you are doing well! Talk real soon!
I started a new thread...
Husband left me 3 months pregnant... (continued)
come find me!
xoxo
NM, you go girl!
I have to admit I'm a little jealous because you're getting to go on all these dates and I'm not lol
I am jealous too!
Love that you are giving them nicknames. More fun than saying "J" or "M"...plus gives us readers a visual....bet you didn't want that visual when I called one of mine vomit guy!
Looking forward to 'awesome guy' or 'hot smart funny good guy'...
Seriously though Rugby guy seems nice and you obv like zoobrew as well. I wouldn't sit around waiting for zb to call though. Call Rugby guy or any other guy and chat, if zb calls you can always call him back. Who wants to be the one sitting by the phone all the time?
You are right Bobbi Jo! I just sent Brent a text to see if he can talk tonight! (Only because he has his kids- if he didn't I would just call I think!I do like to hide behind screens at first though, lol!)
Romeo- when you want to date, go for it--as long as you really don't want your ex back, you know? And I think women get more attention than men on these sites but I must have winked 15 guys and 2 emailed back. The other 2 are from single parents meetup.
Oh and I have this really adorable guy from plentyoffish but I don't know if we would have anything in common....I mean looks need to be backed up with personality!
OK off to check on threads....
Damn! No call from Zoobrew! But I tell myself that I know he is interested so just relax...and he has his kids! Maybe another late night? Last night he was just starting to watch movies with them at 10 p.m. I sure want to send him a text to say hi again... I guess that would be ok right? Just "good night zoobrew! I hope we can talk soon!" But then the other part of me says that he will contact me and I need to be patient. argggghhh! I guess since it is 11:30 over here I should just wait until tomorrow!
Well I talked to Rugby and he was pretty easy to talk to, but it was a little typical of conversation. His ex cheated on him- so he shared a little as did I ( a LITTLE). Now I may be totally biased and comparing him to zoobrew but I had to bring up the topics of conversation! Still, I won't write him off. I made sure Rugby knew that I was just getting out there, going on dates with others (I mean it should be a given but I think when a guy says it to me or I say it to them it helps establish a boundary kind of?).
He definitely is waaaaaay young sounding!Even though he is 33! He uses slang that makes me think of a 21 year old and he says "on there" ?? Like "my ex was spending money at the movies "on there'..."my daughter says 'daddy, I want to live with YOU' "on there."
He has a pool inside his home...a few cars...his own business...but was rather humble about it. I am not materialistic but an inside pool is impressive! I told him that I had to go to bed since my son would be arriving at 6 a.m. and that I would talk to him some more. He said "when?" !!!
So I kind of talked about some evening schedules and then he said he is available during the day for conversation any time if I have time so I said ok, I will keep it in mind! Talk to you later!
I love reading your posts, zoobrew, rugby, etc. Fun!
Also, can you post again where you get your horoscope?
"On there"? I've never heard of it!
www.cainer.comthe nicknames are inspired by BoobiJ! She used to nickname her dates.
So I want to know when I will feel nothing for stbxh? I feel a "caring" right now. Like a tug. What is wrong with me? I do repeat "he left you pregnant for another woman. he is divorcing you. he is too immature with love."
Thanks Seeing Red...I will!!!
www.cainer.comthe nicknames are inspired by BoobiJ! She used to nickname her dates.
So I want to know when I will feel nothing for stbxh? I feel a "caring" right now. Like a tug. What is wrong with me? I do repeat "he left you pregnant for another woman. he is divorcing you. he is too immature with love."
You spent a lot of your life with him, gave yourself to him as his wife, and that's what that tug is. Love isn't a switch taht can be turned off (unfortunately, righT? haha). You will be fine though in time. YOur heart is healing.
uh oh!!! I meant BobbiJ!!! So sorry!!! I type fast sometimes!
just saying Rugby sent me a text saying good morning and that it was nice talking to me last night. I replied with good morning and said I was heading out the door and that it was easy to talk to him and added a smiley face.
Then I talked to my SIL about getting together for lunch this week on Friday and she shared her dating story with me. Said that at first, she talked to Wonderfulman (divorced with a daughter) about once per week, saw him maybe every other week at first and then once per week after that (because it was coordinating with the kids). Said she always had the boys with her when she wanted to talk to him and they would be sleeping with her in bed many nights. So she couldn't always get away to talk or it was too late when she could.
I just thought "oh! this might make sense for other people with school age kids who are dating" hint hint!
So got back just now from a playgroup that I used to go to but stopped. Just 2 moms. I texted ahead of time that I was feeling shy and didn't want to talk about the divorce yet. So we avoided it. It was great to see the toddlers all play with each other and although there was an elephant in the room at times, it mostly went fine. During this visit, I realized how I truly had transitioned into my single life. Because if I wanted to report on what I had been up to, it would sound like someone without kids...so I said a little but left out a lot. I focused on them and our babies mostly.
I do repeat "he left you pregnant for another woman. he is divorcing you. he is too immature with love."
NMM,
Don't look back, keep going forward. Whatever you had with your STBXH, you will find that again with another man and you will make sure you find someone who is more mature.
GAL: finally made corn on the cob with butter-lime-cilantro-chili powder that I saw on Bobby Flay! I also added it to brown rice, stirred in some beans and topped with sour cream. Made some guacamole as well and S ate all of it!!
Am starting my book, sipping pinot grigio, listening to Ray Lamontagne and the Avett Brothers next! S is sleeping. Picked out my outfit for tomorrow night's date...capri pants with a sea green scoop neck top. Easy, feminine, flattering!
Laundry Room by Avett Brothers----beautiful! romantic!
Don't push me out
Just a little longer
Stall your mother
Disregard your father's words.
Close the laundry door
Tiptoe across the floor
Keep your clothes on
I got all that i can take
Teach me how to use
The love that people say you made
Stop your parents' car
I just saw a shooting star
We can wish upon it
But we wont share the wish we made
But i cant keep no secrets
I wish that you would always stay
Last night i dreamt the whole night long
I woke with a head full of songs
I spent the whole day
I wrote 'em down but its a shame
Tonight i'll burn the lyrics
'cause every chorus was your name
Break this tired old routine
And this time don't make me leave
I am a breathing time machine
I'll take you all for a ride
Sounds like a cute outfit, have a great time!
Have fun on tonights date!
Was the corn good? Someone was telling me about using mayo instead of butter with chili powder and something else that I cannot remember...
Here was a helpful article about healing from heartache!
Everyone has, at some point, experienced the loss of a romantic relationship and the accompanying heartbreak that goes with it. Sadness, anger, and shame can follow us for weeks, maybe even months, as we process our feelings. It's important to honor those feelings and not take anything personally as we heal.
Despite the turmoil, now is a great time to get objective and assess the events that led you to where you are. Setting aside your emotions will really help to get perspective and learn from what transpired.
My experience has been that of "emotional housecleaning": clearing the relationship that didn't work to make space for the one that does. I recommend starting with a physical cleaning: collecting the objects that remind you of your former partner and putting them in a one place. This includes any clothing, personal items, and, especially, photos of him/her or of you together. If any of the items need to be returned, do so. If they're objects that are free and clear and you're ready to dispose of them, great! If not, use Plan B and put them in a non-see-through container like a shoe box until you're ready to make that move. It's a good idea to take those objects out of your space as you work through the emotions and lessen the reminder of the past.
From there starts the emotional work. In my history, the initial hurt feelings I had stemmed from a place of ego. You know, variations on the theme of "I'm not good enough." Those negative core beliefs tricked me into thinking some defect of mine was revealed and scared my man-in-question away. Not only was that not true, it was my ego trying to beat me up and make me feel bad.
The truth of the matter is: some personalities just don't mesh. It's not "in the stars," as they say, and it doesn't make one of us "bad" and another "good," nor does it make me "right" and him "wrong." It just is. Now, you might be in the throes of heartbreak and think you'll never feel the same, but it's temporary, I promise. Not only does time really heal those wounds, that knowledge is powerful and will serve you for years to come.
When I was donating my Members Only jacket to Goodwill in the 90s, there was no upset toward the jacket. I had just outgrown it. And so it is for relationships. Sometimes they don't fit or ring true for us as they once did. For me, that was the sign of a new emotional plateau and a sign from the Universe to move on. I sincerely believe all my former romantic relationships have been profound learning opportunities. Not to say I felt that way during the initial sting of what I perceived as a "loss."
My philosophy is that the Universe puts lessons in our lives when we're ready for them and, somehow, my romantic life has been the greatest "classroom" ever. Recovering from a heartbreak is an excellent time for self-analysis and inventory. It's not a time to beat myself up, but to see what my role was in the relationship. I always ask, "What can I do to be more loving and compassionate to myself and others in the future? Could I have done more? Were there times when I should have done less? What were the features of the relationship I liked and disliked? What type of partnership would I like for myself in the future?" I take stock of my part and use that knowledge to enrich my future relationships.
After a breakup, intense feelings make being objective a challenge, but being able to get to this place has been extremely rewarding. I speak from personal experience when I say this thinking has shortened my recovery time by releasing my feelings into to a point of objectivity as quickly as possible. Take what you like and move on to better days, my friends!
Thanks guys! So, I just asked stbxh if he could take S overnights on Thurs nights for the rest of the summer. YES he can, starting tonight! So if my date goes well I can extend it, or I can always talk to Rugby or this other man that I met, lol!
I was feeling overwhelmed with dating and was telling my friend C that she thinks it is good for me though...that it is worth it and this summer is the right time to date so that I can find 1 or 2 to spend more time with in the fall, when I return to work and have less time for dating. Smart woman! Makes sense!
Just came back from my date with zipliner. He greeted me with a hug and then we sat down outside and ordered a beer. I still found him attractive, thank goodness, because I was worried that maybe I just wanted to go out with him because I knew him, you know?
So at first the conversation was a little formulaic and stilted but I sensed he was nervous so I tried to put him at ease. Then we started jumping around with different conversation topics... he has the kids 5 days per week! Is the primary caregiver! I was touched by that!
BUT. I got the sense he believes in the "soulmate" theory...he didn't argue with me when I said that we are able to be with different people. That concerned me!
So then I saw we had similiar interests, he was truly a dedicated, loving dad! And that is sooooo huge to me! Another good dad! I am so glad there are so many out there! (Like on the DB forum, too!)
We talked about honesty and he said he was married 19 years, she started checking out...we didn't get into details. He said at our age+ we know to date a bunch of people and to see who we mesh with.
He asked me "have you dated someone that you had that 'zing' with and you turn into a 6th grader? Like instant chemistry?" WELL WHAT WAS I SUPPOSED TO SAY? YES!! ZOOBREW! But I said "not really...I'm just getting out there. From my previous dating experience in my 20s, I have learned that it is important to give people a 2nd date if there is some connection on the first date!"
So by the end, we both said let's meet again and he said "I feel a connection, too!" even though I didn't say those exact words so he went to (I swear) kiss me although we had been together for 90 minutes. He got my cheek. I said 'it's the first date...'
ANd that was that! Oh boy. I hope I didn't lead him on! The truth is that yes, he was attractive (I refuse to go on a date with someone I don't find physically attractive) and we had a pleasant conversation. But if he is thinking WOW, I am not! I am thinking "let's go out again and see how it goes!" and am curious about my 2nd date with zoobrew!
At least he totally was honest! I wasn't totally, though! But come on, what would I really say? You know?
That's great that he agreed to take S on Thu nights. I bet he would've thought twice about it if you'd asked for Fri nights?
Wait so there's zoobrew, Rugby and 'this other man' too now? good for you!
Hey I think you did really well! I'm impressed with how well you're able to answer those difficult questions right on the spot. And no you don't have to be an open book with a complete stranger on your first date!
The only awkward thing was that he tried to kiss you on the lips? Are you sure? I don't think it's appropriate to kiss on the lips on the first date or maybe I'm just the shy kind? Even on the second date I wouldn't unless I get a clear signal from the girl.
Romeo, thanks for your comments! Well he moved in for me, like directly to my face, probably just for a smooch which isn't a big deal but to me but I felt like I needed some more time with him before I kissed him!
So a couple more observations about what I learned from the date....
he said that his wife started to have back problems, then got depressed and then kind of gave up. He said she wasn't adventurous...when I asked him if he meant like doing outdoor activities such as ziplining, he said no, more like trying new foods, going to different places, being up for anything.
Hmm. This made me think of the whole "men looking for playmates" idea I read somewhere. It made me reflect on my marriage and how ACTUALLY I was open to new things and being adventurous but just not with outdoor activities. Of course in 2008 I started to change that, but OW was very open to outdoor activities.
Then I asked him why he was dating- he said for entertainment. Aha! He was also rediscovering his interests and identity after 19 years of marriage. Thank goodness he was just looking for fun, although he also came right out and said men choose who they would date by whether or not they would f%$# them!!! I laughed at his honesty and bluntness! He said it was very simple. He said it takes 2 seconds to know. But when I asked how they fall for a woman he said that was separate and then didn't get into it, lol!
Now I also talked to Rugby some more and we are going out next Tuesday. more on that convo in a few...
so glad you're posting about your dating, NM. if i had just gotten on this forum and stumbled on your thread, i'd be really comforted by the fun that you describe in your dates.
has zoobrew not responded lately?
Oops- I made a typo during my post about zipliner...I meant that when I talked about there NOT being such a thing as soulmates, zipliner didn't agree with me...he said he wasn't so sure about that and that some people are so unique that there is one person for them and that he is a romantic at heart. But I am dating for fun, so who cares, right?
Ok so Rugby, 33, (Zipliner and Zoobrew are 44) had been married for 10 years. His wife was very materialistic and got into designer purses, designer shoes, money, status, etc. She was very much a homemaker and he said she was good looking and all but didn't have much substance.
He said that he wasn't looking for a girl...he wanted a woman who knew herself and knew what she wanted and that he had "been there,done that" in the military...slept around, got his fill...now sex isn't his number one priority. He wants to connect and have good conversation with someone!
Something that impressed me with Rugby is that he reflected on what he could have done different in his marriage. He also has goals for self improvement. He started his business 6 years ago and wants to retire in 6 years. He listens to news on talk radio and is up to date on current events. I didn't know if I was but we had a discussion about the diamond trade and it seemed like I knew "enough" to have discourse with him!
So I said at the end "let's meet! How about Tuesday of next week?" and he said he could and said he would talk to me again before then. I said yes maybe sometime this weekend and he said he would be texting me. DOWN BOY!!! EAGER! But I bet I will make out with him on our date! lol! well, IF he likes me in person and he finds me attractive- especially because I don't know if he is only into size 6s, you know? Ha ha, now I want him to like me!
Next thing....honestly I don't feel the desire to meet other men after these guys. I want to go out with them and then whatever happens is the end for now. Then, the next time I get out there, I will be dating for a relationship! When I will be ready and willing to have my heart broken! Oh but I will be taking my time looking for MUTUAL chemistry and if I feel it but the other fella doesn't then I don't want that fella! I want someone who will think I am amazing and that I will find amazing! Let's be picky about important, simple things, not my stupid checklist that I had before...
From urban dictionary:
1. On There
A phrase used to fill a sentence. Along the same lines as "like, so." Commonly used in a workplace environment while in conversation.
Your one of my top people on there, your doing great!!
We were making apple pie and I forgot to add the apples on there
2. on there
A meaningless phrase used in a conversation to bridge gaps between unrelated thoughts or used in place of uh or um, when you don't know what to say next.
Did you see that news story about the sheep getting killed? On there. You need a haircut.
Gatsby, no zoobrew hasn't initiated any contact since I texted him on Mon evening. At least I got the impression he is still interested in me! I am 99.9% positive I will hear from him in time to go out with him next week! Here is what my gut tells me about him, though:
He is interested, curious, but cautious.
Here are some clues, taken from our conversation here and there, that I am using to make that inference (so I am not accused of blindly mind reading, lol!):
He told me I was the first person he dated since he broke up with his ex girlfriend in April. He had asked me a lot about how I was responding to the divorce and told me that I was in the grieving process. He shared his experience of hitting it off with someone after his divorce but then he pushed her away because it was too soon.
He said things like "it took me a long time to get over my exW. A long time. But now it's fine! I don't want her back. I spent the first year trying to get her back, and then I spent time mourning and I dated too soon.....here's a test to see when you are over your ex...when you are first dating, you will be comparing others to your ex. When you stop doing that, you'll know you are over him."
"you're putting your ex on a pedestal, that's normal to do at first" and "how do you feel about the idea of your ex having children with her or someone else"
But I just went back to my posts and re-read my description of the date and the communication we had afterward. Yes, he likes me! I am acting like Rugby "DOWN Girl!" so I am going to pull off ANOTHER academy award performance (DBing with stbxh was my last one...am up for a different role now with zoobrew....) and be calm, cool, collected IRL.
So please forgive my silly immature gushing here on the thread...if I don't express it all here it might leak out with zoobrew and I could push him away!
oh yeah- 2 more things about zoobrew that I didn't post- when we talked last Friday, he asked when I was available and when I said I could get babysitting but maybe Wed he said maybe he could rearrange but maybe next week (meaning 25th...)
And on our date he teased me and asked me if I would be stalking him now...AND asked if I was controlling, having come from a dysfunctional family!
so that is why I am being cautious and not pursuing him!
Very smart! Really use what you have learned and if he never initiates anything no big deal. You have a few other fish on the line that you may throw out and more will come along.
It is awesome to hear you gush because it is fun and revitalizes you so don't worry about it.
You are a natural at this stuff...I'm taking notes LOL
Oh this stuff is learned, baby! lol! GREAT name change, by the way, Romeo! Just wanted to add that I am reminding myself that I don't want a serious relationship...I keep forgetting that dating isn't always a mean to an end. I guess it is for entertainment at this point! And am "practicing" for later!
just came back from my stbxSIL's house where we had a pleasant visit and S's cousins, who are 10 and 11, are starting to show some interest in him! I mean they are big boys and he is 1 but he loooooves to watch them and try to play with them! Oh and my stbxSIL said her oldest son didn't start talking until he was 2 and he is very articulate and does well in school. I am mentioning this because S is only saying momma dadda.
Well what do you know...10:30 p.m. I get a text from zoobrew! "Hey you." The funny thing is that I actually fell asleep! Was tired and crashed. Well at 11:30 I heard my phone buzz and it was another friend texting. So I look at it and then realize zoobrew had texted me!
So I reply back and after a few exchanges he says "this texting is for the birds... I'm calling!"
And what do you know...he asked "did you just get back or something?" I didn't tell him I was sleeping,lol! But I did tell him that I don't normally go out every Friday night because I have my son, so I go out on Saturday nights. When he asked why I went out last Friday I said that I had arranged babysitting and will do that once in awhile but it was just a fluke...going out both Fri and Sat nights!
So we talked for another couple hours but I was trying to gently let him know that I had to go to bed because my son would get up in 5.5 hours...and then it was 5 hours...I was saying "I really am enjoying talking to you but my son is going to get up very soon..." and he kept talking. I finally said "well we should say good night because I have to get up in 5 hours." And he said "ok well let's talk again...soon!" and I said "sure, yes!"
I did not ask him "when are we going to go out? What do you have available?" because that would be controlling. But I am such a planner and I do need to know if I need to get babysitting!
Now in the middle of the conversation, I think I brought up the next date (briefly) and discussed kayaking a little. Well we still didn't get around to planning when we would do it. I do have to make reservations...if I could figure out when! I think I might have asked him if that is what he still wanted to do or something but then he said something like "yeah, my week has been crazy! that's why I haven't called you..." but it was not super clear.
I was tired and not on top of my game and said some stupid things! embarrassing! But I think by the end left with a good impression! Oh well....the real me can be an airhead once in awhile. Nobody's perfect!
I DID detect a little defensiveness from him at various points, though.
again...I need to relax because this is just for fun, nothing serious!
I did not ask him "when are we going to go out? What do you have available?" because that would be controlling.
You didn't ask because NM is not worried about when the next "date" is going to be...she is a strong, busy woman who has an awesome life and if he calls...great and if not...no big deal cause you don't NEED HIM to validate you!!!
Or, something like that!!!
Have you read Why Men Love Bitches?
BTW...glad he called!
is it weird that I am still in touch w/ my stbxSIL?
thanks CW! yes thoughts become feelings which become actions....
I kind of realized this week that my self esteem isn't so hot. How annoying!!!to me and others!
is it weird that I am still in touch w/ my stbxSIL?
Not weird at all! If you can maintain a friend R that excludes talk about your STBX then why not. Often when you separate you lose not only the R with spouse but the R with everyone around spouse who have been your family for years. If you can keep in touch and it's not negative for you then go ahead. If not, that's OK too.
well we talk about her husband and her marriage or S. She is having a very hard time with her H! SInce they remarried...but is hanging in there. I think he was/is a controlling a-hole and is self centered and immature before he divorced her and still is. Maybe she was supposed to stay divorced, you know?
Seriously--not all marriages should be saved!
Hey nm!
I've been following along, cheering you on from the sidelines, but have NO advice or helpful suggestions when it comes to dating!!
With the SIL question, no, it is not weird. In-law relationships do not end b/c the marriage does. She will always be your sister if you choose. My step-kids will always be my stepkids, H's cousins will always be my cousins, etc. The beauty of the situation is that you get to choose which relationships to maintain. YOu can let go of the H's crazy relatives and keep the ones you want. This is best for S as well. It is great you have a good R with his aunt! and his cousins.
My Mom and my Dad's sister did become like sisters. When my parents D'd, that R suffered a bit but recovered. Had it not, I doubt I would have seen my Dad's family at all or had any kind of R with my cousins. It is us women who maintain such ties.
Oh thanks, WN! Stbxh just picked up S and I told him that we visited his sister and that S had fun playing with his (10 and 11 year old) cousins. He asked how his sister was doing. I shared that she was making and selling purses and was very talented with that. I added that I found out that their (step)dad's wife divorced him and that I heard he was visiting their mom! Yep- their mom divorced dad, mom divorced stepdad. Dad and stepdad each remarried. Stepdad always loved his mom, despite his remarriage. Well, stepdad went out to visit their mom for a couple of weeks! (Who has MS and is in a wheelchair btw).
Why was I sharing this stuff with stbxh? Something to do with me not wanting to lose the bond. Or what? I don't know.
I am looking at our disgusting front yard and thinking of how I want to make a good impression on any of my dates if they ever get to the point where they pick me up at my house (like zoobrew). So I ask stbxh what I can do to work on the yard to clean it up a bit. He said he would do it.
He said he was going to take a couple of days off from work "some time" and come over to the house to work on the yard.
OK off to clean the house for my best friend's visit--we are going out tonight with her and her H and maybe another friend! Yippee!
OK so tell me-- now that zoobrew has called me again, is it ok now if I text zoobrew and tell him that the kayak tours are open Mon or Thurs? For Mon, there are only a couple of spots left. For Thurs, it is wide open.
Last night he asked me a few q's about it, I said "I don't know. I haven't called them yet!" and he teased me "well aren't you a wealth of information!"
On MY end, I need to preserve babysitting for Monday but don't need to if it is Thursday.
OK because I am not looking for my next long term boyfriend (???right???) (but I LIKE HIM, DAMN IT!)I am thinking it might be ok if I don't follow the rules all the time? damn this crap!
I will listen to you! Advise please....
Hey NM
I think I am too old-fashioned to help with advice in the dating area...I still believe in letting them pursue you but today with texting and everything else...IDK!!!
And, I don't think there is anything wrong with keeping in touch with your SIL...in fact, I think it is great! Will be good for your S in the future in helping him stay in touch with your H's family and once you are D'd, she will just be your friend!
I would wait for him to contact you and when he does let him know you are available Thursday (not Monday).
nm,
I would wait for him to contact you and when he does let him know you are available Thursday (not Monday).
I am by no means a dating expert yet but I agree w/CG. Also, I think you are falling into the abyss of
over-thinking all this!
NM, leave it with zoobrew. You are just as cute - maybe cuter! - saying nothing at this point!
It SUCKS to be at this again, but it IS also a tiny bit nice to not be the one doing all the work...
It SUCKS to be at this again, but it IS also a tiny bit nice to not be the one doing all the work...
Just as it SUCKS to be the one that has to do all the "work"
I would wait for him to contact you and when he does let him know you are available Thursday (not Monday).
Perfect!
Juggling THREE guys?! Well, look at you!
I wonder what your stbxh would think if he knew?
Not much to say other than "Go you!" Very inspiring how you've managed to achieve detachment and moving on.
Thank you all for chiming in! Mystik, I haven't achieved full detachment yet...I still love that tool douche idiot...but am moving on if by moving on it means the act of moving, lol!
So I didn't check my thread in time to see your advice but after I posted, I called my grandma who is 81. I told her the deal- that the days are filling up so I will need to reserve. I asked her if I should text zoobrew the info-would that be pursuing? Well, my old fashioned grandma said "go ahead! You know he is interested, you talked about it last night, you are going to do it next week. So there is no problem with sending him a text!"
And she even gave me a sample phrase "something like fyi, these are the days available. Let me know which ones you can do."
She had no hesitation or reservation about it, so I decided to take her advice and sent him this text:
(btw the previous night, he asked me a lot of questions about the place and I didn't have answers so he teased me, saying "Well aren't you a wealth of information!" so in the text I was detailed on purpose!)
"Hi zoobrew! I contacted the kayak place and they have space for Mon(leaving at 8) or Thurs(leaving at 6). ..leaving from the Marina at___. Talk to you soon!"
So he IMMEDIATELY texts me back "Cool! Monday work for you? :)"
I reply "Yes! I will get babysitting :)"
him: "Sounds like a plan, Stan! ;)"
me: "Terrific! If you can call me tomorrow I can fill you in on details ;)"
him: "With pleasure chica!"
So phew! Rugby might be calling me today. We are going out on Tuesday night...I need to work out extra to keep up with all of the eating and drinking!
Now I am going to mentally prepare for rejection so that when it happens, I won't be too disappointed, especially since I am not ready for a long term relationship!
NM, I'm just catching up and until you posted about grandma I kept thinking to myself "NM, go with your instincts, be yourself, as long as you're not calling or texting him 10 times a day with him only responding then it's fine. We ain't getting any younger you know?"
The rejection is always hard but you don't want to be thinking about that. You should always try to keep your mind positive not negative! I know you want to do it so it's not a big disappointment and it's fine to acknowledge that feeling but then let it go. Don't hang on to it or it'll create that negative energy around that topic. I know it sounds BS but it's not. Besides, after having been rejected by our spouses and surviving it I think we'll be alright!
Now go have fun...
Romeo you are so right! I bet I could have texted him to say hi before he texted me, even! I think if I was looking for a serious relationship, I should be more careful about my moves... But since I am supposed to just be dating, no big deal, right?
Hmmm....I wonder if I should tell stbxh today or tomorrow (via text) that my sister will be watching S!
Well back to the date: we will probably eat before the kayak tour, so I have to figure out the whole outfit thing! I do have a flirty tank top that I can wear to dinner, plus sandals, and then switch to casual tank top and raft shoes for the kayak trip.
I mean we might want to go out afterward for a drink, so it would be good for me to have an alternate outfit!
Wow it is like an episode on Blind Date where they meet for an activity, then go to dinner, then go for drinks right after- lol!
I am so excited for you NM!!! Sounds like a lot of fun!
Do you have to tell your H about your sis babysitting son?
Yes I think I need to because she will be there when he arrives to pick up S or drop him off (depending on the time).
Whoa- will zoobrew be meeting me at my house? Then he could cross paths with stbxh? I DO NOT want that! But I think I could be open with zoobrew when we are discussing the details--I will just tell him that my ex will be picking up my son between 5 and 5:30, so maybe I could meet him somewhere else? He will understand, being divorced!
BTW last night was so fun! I went with K and her husband D. I tried a tangaray (sp) martini-it was a blunder by the bartender-but totally tasted like pine, being gin! So I added worcestershire sauce and hot sauce...much better. Then we had some chilled crawdads for appetizer, with calamari with 3 different yummy sauces, rare ahi tuna and spicy sushi roll for dinner with SUPER HOT wasabi! Then we also had a delcious side salad with creamy balsamic-garlic dressing....YUMM! I tried D's creamy seafood pasta and the scallops were like butter!
After dinner and a lively discussion about demons on earth (seriously!) we walked to the same karoake dance meat market that I went to last week. K wanted to do karaoke so we signed up to sing Meredith Brooks "Bitch" but had to wait for 90 minutes. So we danced and sang along to others' perfomances and sure enough several 20 somethings came by. One was so drunk that he put his hand on my behind and told me something offensive! I told him to take his f*&^ing hand off my a-- and walk away. He complied!
So when we got up to sing, we thought " will these kids know this song?" and everyone sang along and cheered which felt great, lol!
K and I used to sing karaoke in college at our favorite haunt and we have a little routine down for that song! But I said to the crowd "Are YOU a BABE IN TOTAL CONTROL OF HERSELF?"
And by then, we were all tired and ready to go home!
Sounds like you are really just having a lot of fun so that is great!
NM,
Cautious and careful as you step out into the dating arena again, just my advice. I am loving the book, Getting Naked Again because it covers lots of areas.
I've been divorced about 3 months and my heart is still too bruised to think much about dating. I did try it for a month, but quickly retreated back. I'm just not emotionally ready and that's not fair to anyone I date.
However, I know I will let them pursue me when I am ready.
Good luck and keep us posted.
You put worchestershire sauce and hot sauce in your martini? Weird!! Maybe I don't have much drinking experience, but. . .
Just going to say that I'm jealous! I'm really glad you have a year old baby and you can go out and do these sorts of things. It's inspirational to me!
Got a text this a.m. from zoobrew saying "looking forward to tonight :)" We texted back and forth a little...I let him leave the last one! I DO have a baby to tend to, lol!
Talked to zoobrew for a couple of hours last night....after a rough start of phone tag! highlights..
1)He said he was so sorry for all the interruptions...that he was so looking forward to this call all weekend
2)He cooks- like REALLY cooks! souffles, wine-butter-mushroom sauces, etc.
3)He LOVES FOOD- ALL KINDS-loves to eat!
4)He said I didn't have to arrange for such an expensive date, (I never said anything about it! Did he look it up online?) that he would have been happy to go for a hike...so he will take care of dinner. I told him that I always wanted to do this and it looked like fun and since he wanted to do it, too, then it made for a great date idea!
5)He said he can completely read me: that I wear my heart on my sleeve, like he does, that I talk fast when I am nervous, that I am guarded, that I am attracted to him- he insists I WAS THE ONE who reached in for the kiss! I DIDN'T!
6)A couple of times he told me to be myself, not to pretend to like something he does, that part of getting to know each other is learning likes and dislikes....
I was a little confused because I WAS being myself! I am going to ask him about that tonight...I truly do get a good sense of people when I meet them, that my ex also didn't like seafood and also was not an adventurous eater, that I also tried to save my marriage, that I also liked the same beer, the same wine, the same views as far as not being materialistic and snobby about stuff...
I mean all of these things are just silly superficial stuff that is fun to have in common with someone, but not super important!
So he asked if we wanted to carpool or meet there...I thought it was funny that he didn't ask to pick me up at my house.
I agreed to carpool and then we had a very painful discussion of where to meet, at this street and this street, and it was painful because I am terrible with directions! I told him so! But he kept referencing Blockbuster and I had never been to that one! So I was laughing and he was making fun of me--but talk about me being myself for goodness sake! He then asked me if we could take my car because his is too big to park where we are going. So I said yes and wondered if he would be willing to drive...he emphatically said yes- because he would be miserable not driving while I got us lost! lol! DIRECT isn't he?
oh and he said "on our 3rd date, I want to cook you...."!!!
oh and he said "on our 3rd date, I want to cook you...."!!!
He wants to cook YOU?
Wow, didn't know things were heating up like that
Sounds good NM. You're doing alright!
Been reading and living vicariously through you, NM! I haven't been out that much in YEARS - and certainly not with a little one (or 3) at home.
You go, girl!
Haha! Cook me? With the heat we share between us, I wouldn't be surprised!
Red, since I have babysitting and stbxh takes S overnight a few times a week, I am able to get out. And as for getting out- my savings is dwindling and I know I won't be able to keep this up! Am looking forward to not doing anything on Saturday night and not even tonight if I can help it- need to sleep!
Well the date lasted 9 hours with some steamy kissing at the end! I think he may be my Dr. Feelgood- and maybe he is my "HEALER" lol!
I HIGHLY recommend kayaking...it was super relaxing and easy. I didn't flip over and was a little nervous at first about coordinating the oars with him, but it was fine. He was patient and I caught on! But he also didn't talk me through it, like stbxh would!Oh well. At the end, the teachers said they call the tandem kayaks the divorce kayaks because couples usually fight in them.
It was so weird to hear him describe things about his exW that matched stbxh...zoobrew and I both were the planners, the talkers, the messy ones, the outgoing ones, the workaholics...
our "exes" are quiet, non adventurous eaters(lol), organized/anal retentive, take charge, but good as parents to the kids, and didn't have many friends outside of the marriage.
In their marriage, they rarely argued, worked very well as a team together. De ja vous...
But at the beginning of the date, things were a little calmer on his side. He was so much more reserved and guarded and I wasn't this time! But I relaxed still and helped him feel at ease! So while we are eating dinner, he gets a phone call from his son
"Dad, mom says I can go to camp if you pay for half." Well, he just gave her $4000 and he takes them places like the beach and Oaks Park or to the mountains, buys them clothes. She just wants more and more money. (I know this is his version but get this-- his son says "we are leaving tomorrow for San Diego and she needs the check tonight." SO put 2 and 2 together...)
I was so peeved that she was using the kids to communicate with him like that...he said that the kids would call "can we stay with mommy another night? She said we could if it's okay with you" and stuff like that.
Well he did say to his son that he would arrange for it and said "your mom needs to be the one to talk to me about this."
He said she went to school to become a nurse, got a boob job, got her belly button pierced, is dating man after man... will say "I only want to communicate through email" and then call him the next day. I was thinking about everything I learned from this site and books about how to nip that behavior/cycle. But kept it to myself of course!
So then he tells me that he and his ex girlfriend were together 3 years....she got along well with the kids but had ANGER issues like she would throw things and break things and get into rages!
I told him that would scare me. I could not live like that. I would be too frightened. He said a buddy told him to look into co-dependency and see if he met the criteria. Yep. But he wasn't before her. He started learning how to not be that way and went to counseling to improve himself. (hey, that's good!)
THEN HE TELLS ME that they are taking a break...from April to August something. He told her to get help for her anger management. He hasn't talked to her at all since then and doesn't know if he wants to resume the relationship....she also wasn't able to be warm and affectionate with him.
OK SO my thinking is that we are both in a good spot for harmless fun+affection. And that is why I am breaking ALLLLL the rules like talking about exes, and being forward if you know what I mean. I still won't pursue him, though! And hopefully we can go out a few more times and enjoy each other's company, then I will go back to work and be by myself and continue to grow and improve.
Also- zipliner emailed me yesterday to ask me out for Friday. There is no way I could seriously be able to focus on him and enjoy his company! With zoobrew on my mind! Listening to my instincts as you advise, Romeo!
So I told him "it was great meeting you! But I did meet someone that I have instant chemistry with and am pursuing that right now. Enjoy the rest of your summer!" or somethign like that.
And I haven't heard from Rugby since Sunday before he was boating. He texted me to say "hope you are having a wonderful weekend" and we texted back and forth. I asked him a question on the last text and haven't heard anything since. Part of me is honestly a little concerned that something happened to him or a buddy on the boating adventure! We had talked about meeting up tonight but I am not going to call him. After my last custody class, I want to go home and try to get some sleep!
Whew....
OH and it was hilarious to see stbxh's mind going when he picked up S and I told him that my sister would be here when he drops S off... his face was searching me!
Then he walks down the hall and I am trying to say "ok gotta go..." cuz I needed to get ready. He sees the backpack with clothes in it (change for the kayak but he doesn't know it, haha!) and then he sees the iron out, and my shoes, and my outfit laying on the chair.
Take THAT, stbxh!!!!
Well the date lasted 9 hours with some steamy kissing at the end!
That's the hilight of the date right there! hey that's great, I'm happy for you!
THEN HE TELLS ME that they are taking a break...from April to August something. He told her to get help for her anger management. He hasn't talked to her at all since then and doesn't know if he wants to resume the relationship....she also wasn't able to be warm and affectionate with him.
So the good thing is that he was upfront and honest about it. He didn't have to be. Also since they were together 3 years that's a long time so that also tells me that he's not the serial-dater type of a guy. 2-4 years is the typical time when that 'spark' fizzles out and the realities of life start to set in...
And hopefully we can go out a few more times and enjoy each other's company, then I will go back to work and be by myself and continue to grow and improve.
You decide what you want! He seems interested from what you've said so I don't see a few more dates as a problem at all...
Listening to my instincts as you advise, Romeo!
Awesome! you should always be yourself that way you attract people that like the real you.
I'm with Seeing Red! I will live vicariously thru you right now! Sounds like you are having a wonderful time!!!
Good for you NM...you deserve it!
Okay, just killin' time before my LAST custody class!
Thank you ladies...yeah, I think a little harmless fun is in order after the year I have had! I realize that this isn't everyone's cup of tea but it works for me for now, heh heh!
Stbxh just picked up S. He says "so I wanted to let you know that you can always ask me to take S for the night if you have plans so you don't have to deal with babysitting." I just kind of paused and then said
"Well I do want him to get used to other people for when I need babysitting for a night that you don't see him."
Good for you...STBXH needs to understand there are consequences for his actions.
OK I am refreshed from a full night's sleep....am going to share some embarrassing confessions because this thread makes it easy to bare all, lol!
did some annoying things on the date....
I was narrating stuff like "ok got my keys...put the purse away...check the ticket..."
I think this is because I narrate for S??? Or I have been living alone too long? lol!
I was concerned about using the paddles the right way, staying with the group, following directions. So not sexy to be self conscious!!!
At the bar, after a hoppy microbrew, I felt relaxed and moved in for the kissing first...I said "aren't you going to kiss me?" (blush!!!) HE SAID "No." and I felt sooooo embarrassed and rejected and it brought me back to when stbxh SUDDENLY stopped wanting me sexually. (Boy, does this mean I am sooo not ready to date or what? Too vulnerable!) Of course I played it off with zoobrew and said "oh, really? fine!" then he started kissing me a couple of minutes later. Argh! I was too impatient...we had spent 5 hours together at that point and he didn't even touch me at all up until then. I mean not patting my arm or anything like that!
Up until the bar I was thinking that something must have turned him off to me...something I said or did while kayaking? So when we sat down to drink some beer, I started to sit in a chair across from him and he patted the spot next to the bench where he chose to sit.
You can imagine how relieved I was to see that he wanted me to be physically close to him. I was thinking maybe he had put me in the "friend zone." I guess once I sat next to him I was sure to rub my knee against his. And then a little while later is when I asked him about kissing me. You know this is all because I have been deprived for so long!
Of course I asked him EARLIER on the date if asking him out meant that I was aggressive and he said "no...I really liked how you said 'let's get a beer sometime this summer' because it was so low key and open. No pressure."
And then I go and put the pressure on by pursuing kissing with him? arggghhh!
I guess because I am thinking "fling" and not "relationship" that I am not following the rules. Maybe for flings, you still need to? I guess for one night stands you don't, but this is in between a one nighter and dating exclusively. haha! OK analyzing is over now....
going to have a fun day with S!
just sent Rugby a text to say good morning- how was your boating trip? He said
Well good morning! What happened about meeting last night?
I said
"I have the same Q! I thought you were going to call me! Sorry, was I supposed to call you??"
so then we are meeting Thurs night. I am so humbled...
I will be calling him here soon!
NM, you should start a new thread 'Confessions of a free woman as she takes on the dating game'
So I got a patted on my arm a couple of times by a woman recently but we're always told to keep our hands to ourselves unless there's a clear green light. We're always getting rejected you know so most of us are guarded. Some guys though have the mentality 'so what? the more you get rejected the higher the chances of succeeding next time'. So it could've been that? Besides how often do women really initiate that kind of stuff so to me that's a special treat like- wow, she's a BITCH - babe in total control of herself that is
Kind of a turn on.
But now...you have to get him back! don't initiate everytime! you have to think and act like a drug dealer (no personal experience I assure you lol). You gave him his fix now let him come back for more.
A fling eh? hey so what's up with the one night stands anyway? there goes my whole theory about women wanting the emotional connection before the physical stuff. I'm not complaining because I'm sure it's making a lot of guys happy somewhere lol
OK Romeo...I must adopt a "drug dealer" mentality, lol! Well that is why I am going out with Rugby tomorrow night. I mean not JUST because of that reason, but because over the weekend I honestly thought "hmm...wonder if there will be sparks with Rugby? Will he like me when he meets me? Can I handle dating him at the same time as zoobrew?" and then when he didn't call I thought "so did he meet someone else? wait a minute...."
So I called him up and he definitely had a "tone" to his voice, like he was suspicious or hurt or resentful of the fact that I didn't call him in time for Tuesday! If he had called me, I would have gone out with him but since he didn't, I didn't make an attempt. He said at one point
"And on Tuesday night, I was HOPING TO HAVE QUALITY TIME WITH NEWMAMA...but I DIDN'T..." So I couldn't help but say "well I will make it up to you on Thursday!" but you know what? It kinda bugged me that he was like that...why not just call me then? And I don't owe him anything...we have only talked on the phone!
From our other conversations, I can feel his "warmth" over the phone so it makes me a little nervous about him wanting to get too close too soon. Just wondering if zoobrew acted similarly if it would cool my jets for him?
Yes, not just me, but EVERY FRIEND I HAVE has had a one nighter! And these are ladies who are currently married, or in long term relationships. So one nighters are not just done by "hussies!"
But I can't have a one nighter anymore, I don't think. To me, a "fling" means a series of dates where sex is involved.
NOW, in a relationship with someone, we definitely need the emotional stuff to maintain our sexual desire for our man!
So if the woman patted your arm,it does depend on context. Was she also darting her eyes, cocking her head,playing with her hair, or looking at your mouth? those are signs of interest!
Went to my favorite park with S today. It is in another city and has reservoirs and hiking trails...gorgeous views! I sure hope I burned some extra calories hiking with him on my back!S loved it again!
While at the swings, and OLDer gent was making small talk. He said that houses in that area have been starting to sell....hmm. I know I can't buy a house but it made me consider moving back to that area next year! I LOVE LOVE LOVE that neighborhood and park!!!! They have summer concerts, too!
So I have been thinking of what kind of hobby to pick up.Iguess I need to go back to cooking--don't want to lose the skill! It is hard to justify the expense, though, when I am going out and spending money. But I think I will try to resume it next month.
Having stepped into the dating scene thus far, am realizing that I have got to step it up a notch when I want to find that special someone! So much work. Need to have defined hobbies (somehow outside of work and being a single mom), need to be up on current events (which I have been better at doing), and need to become more physically active somehow. Oh and develop better self confidence. It is very overwhelming.
Oh yeah- and was talking to my BFF about the latest dating news and she said that I am doing great and if zoobrew won't call me back, then he is stupid and turning down "free candy", but that I really should talk to her friend Cristi and help her out.
She said that Cristi is trying to casually date but is SMOTHERING her men....coming on strong, pursuing heavily with texts and phonecalls, and has been dumped a lot. Recently when a man canceled on her, she called him yelling and crying about it!
Oh and I forgot to mention that on my date with zoobrew, I asked him if he has had a lot of dates that lasted 6 hours with talking and he said 'yeah.' So guess that wasn't such a big deal after all...also, he repeated himself with stuff that he already told me 1-2x before! (see how I am buffering myself from rejection?
)
But I'm still game for some passionate affection with him!lol!
Having stepped into the dating scene thus far, am realizing that I have got to step it up a notch when I want to find that special someone!
Sweetie! There is no hurry whatsoever at all! You just be yourself! That special someone will come along when you least expect it!!! Your self confidence will develop in time!!! Give yourself a break and just enjoy being you!!!! You are doing fine...slow and easy!!! Whatever you do, make sure that it is for YOU!!!!
I am an occasional poster, so take this with a grain of salt....
The D was just filed last month, and you are already dating? What's the rush?
I understand wanting to be validated again after such a blow (been there, did that). OK, well, now you know that you aren't a troll - there will be opportunities for you.
This is a time for you to become comfortable with YOU - heal wounds, work on becoming the best person you can be. Focus on you, your baby, family, girlfriends, hobbies, etc.
Hi Donna! I am not offended! I have been separated since March 2009 so I feel comfortable dating casually after 16 months... he was talking divorce all through out.
I definitely will do what you are suggesting after I finish what I started with Rugby and zoobrew!
Everything is intentional. How is your dating life going? Are you out there yet?
My life is going really well
Lots of time with friends, fam, kids, and just on my own.
My dating life? Like I said, been there, done that
I had a good time, didn't take things personally, but knew after a while that it wasn't good timing for me. I got some good stories out of most, one I had a brief fling with (a bad-ass biker guy, of all things! I'm an elementary school art teacher - let's say we only had one thing in common). The other guys were much more interested in me that I was in them, and it just wasn't fair, so I backed off.
I was lucky - there was a lot of potential there to just go into a new R without really knowing myself, or of getting hurt all over again. You need time to process and learn from the last R so you don't make the same mistakes again.
I've done a lot of reading since then - a great website is gettingpastyourpast.
NM, I'm kinda in the same boat as you...though my latest separation hasn't been as long as yours but I think after the next couple of outings with G4 I'm going to just chill out. With so much going on in my life and adjusting to taking care of everything myself now I really just have to focus on me. The only thing though is I do like to go out and do something fun sometimes and I don't have any single friends to do that with. That's the only positive for me right now hanging out with female friends.
Sounds like you need to expand your list of guy friends...
Yes, those meetup groups are great for meeting new friends!
I am not dating to get friends. I am dating for validation and to see what's out there and to get some of my needs met. I am clear with every man I am dating that I am not looking for anything serious. I only came on strong to zoobrew but am minding my ps and qs for my date tonight with Rugby!
Today I took S to the zoo and got sad when seeing the damn couples with their babies! When will I not be sad? When will I not be bitter and depressed over raising S alone? Ugh...pity parties are so not sexy!
Well then I am laughing while watching the Daily Show and did a weird habit thing where I turned my head to share the laugh and look at....???? I think I am losing my mind...lol!
nm,
Well then I am laughing while watching the Daily Show and did a weird habit thing where I turned my head to share the laugh and look at....???? I think I am losing my mind...lol!
I still occasionally do this. Moreso in my truck than on the couch. Rarer and rarer, though. Go figure.
H left almost two years ago and I still turn to share a laugh or a joke with him.
Reaching for H at night is the one habit I wish I would stop!
This never really happens to me unless I'm half asleep. I guess I'm very aware that I'm alone...
Misery loves company...
ok just got back from my date. On the down side, he looks less cute than his pictures! But not ugly..is that harsh? On the upside, the conversation was good and he was a gentleman and was very affectionate....the way I want and need. Caressing and good kissing(not as good as zoobrew!). I made it clear AGAIN that I am not ready for anything serious...just dating for fun and getting out there. But damn he was charming and kept telling me how good I felt (he was caressing my legs and stomach!) and said he was a reformed bad boy! lol! He called me 15 minutes after the end of the date (as I arrived home) and wanted to double check that I will go out with him again and that he had the best night ever and that I wanted to see him again. ugh! I said yes I did and that we would talk soon to set it up. I will go out with him again but...I told him previously that I wanted to date a little while with an end point but not leading to a serious boyfriend because my heart is not ready for that! I TOLD HIM!
I sent a text to zoobrew that said "damn you, zoobrew! Am on a date with a 3rd guy and you are still the sexiest and smartest and I hope I didn't come on too strong but if I did...so be it!
And zoobrew replied with (edited)
"lol. No way could you ever come on too strong. I could easily beat you in that category....(edited) lol lol lol :)"
and then he said
"btw flattery will get you everywhere. But truth be told I'm conflicted about (ex girlfriend) and want to resolve that issue first before pursuing something in good conscience. Call me if you want to discuss. Enjoy your date, cutie! :)"
so I replied (at 12 a.m. something....)
"ok well I totally get it and am only capable of a fling right now...even though you are top notch boyfriend material if that makes sense!
But I COMPLETELY get it if you can't go there because of your feelings toward (exgirlfriend)! Thanks for your honesty and for the BEST KISSING EVER! My date was chuck steak compared to your filet mignon!"
And I feel fine!
Oh and a P.S. tonight stbxh picked up S. I gave a 30 second run down. He had to use the bathroom. So when walking down the hall he saw the backpack out (lol! just left out from Monday night- I didn't put it away!) and my clothes next to the iron on the table.
Well he said "so am I still taking him overnight?"
I looked right at him and said "yes..." DUH! WHY THE F WOULD IT CHANGE?? I am so annoyed with his double checking on the times!!
then I rushed them out the door- "oK well bye bye S!"
I think he suspects I am dating! hahahaha!
Wow Newmama, you are the Dating Queen! I've only been gone a few days from your thread and now there's not only zoobrew but Mr Rugby as well ! lol!
Again, I love hearing the stories. It's great.
What i love is that WH is in a relationship that is now pretty 'old' with OW, but it's your turn to have fun! Ha ha ha ha ha... I'm really glad you're dating.
Caressing and good kissing(not as good as zoobrew!).
he was caressing my legs and stomach!
Thanks for your honesty and for the BEST KISSING EVER! My date was chuck steak compared to your filet mignon!
Dang girl, you take no prisoners LOL!
I'm glad you had a good time and that you're aware of want out of this- as long as you can handle it. Sounds like you're really into zoobrew- I almost said zeebra
BTW, it's odd to me that on a first or second date he would be so bold as to carress your legs and stomach. Maybe I'm just too shy to do that.
Wow Newmama! every time i check back on your thread, it's like 5 pages longer than the last time! LOL. Sounds like you are having fun with the boys! Keep Smiling
Oh good- I was going to be soooo embarassed about what I posted last night but no 2x4s! For the record, Rugby was NOT caressing me with my permission. I mean I sat next to him, he put his arm around me, and then he started touching me. Of course I moved his hand away; I didn't just sit there and allow it. (If he was ZOOBREW, my fling desire, I would have!!!!)
But I did recognize some traits in Rugby that I have, like I love to caress and "pet" my man, lol! So although I felt ZERO sparks last night, I will go out with him again...especially since it sounds like zoobrew is not interested so I won't be thinking of him while with Rugby.
HOWEVER. I have decided that the next time I, ahem, "knock boots" or "do the deed" I DO WANT FILET MIGNON! I realized I am not necessarily just wanting to get it on for the sake of getting it on. Since it has been so long, I want it to be WORTH it! I want chemistry and passion, you know?
btw Had a fantastic day with S, and my sisters at the beach!! Lots of fun, careless spending...it was all worth it! And we even
ATE PIZZA IN THE CAR on the way home! Something that stbxh would NEVER consider...yes, my car is messy and sticky. So what- I will clean it. I am enjoying some freedoms of being single that include not needing to worry about my spouse's feelings...I can be selfish! (well if S is taken care of and happy! He does come first!)
Oh, NM, you are cracking me up! Eventually I'll post more on my thread, but for now I'm just enjoying yours...
xoxo,
Mrs. A
Hey hotmama!
I found this while perusing a LOA site. Thought you might be interested in this bit of dating advice...FWIW...
From Michael Losier:
Full Article HereHad a Disastrous Date? What to Do When You Get Home
"Recently I was interviewed on a Love and Relationship talk radio show. It was the first time the host had heard about the Law of Attraction and she was very interested in the concept. After explaining what the Law of Attraction was about - offering positive and negative vibes and that those vibes resulted in all of us attracting positive or negative things into our lives, she asked me the question, “What should someone do if they’ve just come home from a disastrous date?” My answer was simple, “Don’t tell anybody about it!”"
The application has proven impossible for me. Too complicated!
Hope you don't have any of these but its best to be prepared!!!!lol
Glad you are having so much fun!
Thanks WN-I haven't been too negative luckily! Just want my date to not have a full beard when he doesn't have one in his photos! And not grope me without my permission,lol!
(those are the only negative things I can say about Rugby so I have to go out with him again!
)
And not grope me without my permission,lol!
Oh what I'd do for a little groping these days! lol
I'm enjoying reading about all the fun! Makes dating seem not so scary after SO many years out of circulation, lol!
ladies...the GAL before dating helped me feel a little more confident but I definitely don't know how to go past the 2nd date! talking is easier...I have had a lot more experiences in my life since I was dating in my 20s. So it really makes getting to know other people pretty fun. Hey, you and WN have a few more years of experience so I bet it would be waaaay easier for you two!! But hopefully neither of you will have to do it and will save your marriages instead.
Pfft. GAL? You haven't even been alone long enough to have your own life, IMHO.
Seriously, at your age, why not give being single a year before you worry about "getting past the 2nd date"?
Take time to become YOU.
Pfft Time Heals. When does being single start? Does it start when the judge officially declare one to be divorced? Or does it start when your spouse leaves you for the OP?
Since I know I can't get past a 2nd date I know I am not ready for a relationship. I am ready to enjoy some male company and then feel more confident next year when I get out there for something potentially serious.
When does being single start?
When you are perfectly happy doing whatever it is that you do on a Friday or Saturday night without feeling like you need to be out on a date.
Seriously, when you stop "needing" male company. When you are perfectly happy alone with your child. Then, when you do date, you can be more objectively selective.
We're back to how GAL was really for you, and why you needed to do it whether or not you saved your M.
Thank you, Donna for this link:
http://www.gettingpastyourpast.com/?p=4743#more-4743Closure is part emotional healing work and part decision. At some point you have to decide to turn the page to DECIDE that it’s time and it’s enough and it’s over and thank you and goodbye. At some point you have to CHOOSE the time to move on. And that is the time of closure…it comes after the hurt and the anger and the confusion…but it comes. And it comes from you and you alone. It is a side effect of walking through the pain but also of saying “This is it. I’ve had enough of this pain and anger and not living….it’s time to move on.” and then you MOVE ON.
That is closure. It is the integration of having experienced a loss, having worked through the emotions of that loss, of having decided that it’s time to move on, of recognizing the new self that is moving on, of committing to becoming the best new self you can be, and then going forward. That is closure. It happens for you and inside you. And only you. You get it from within.
And even if you have all the questions in the world, closure is possible down the road. You have to decide the answers don’t matter. It’s NOT going to make sense. You hurt, you are angry, you are confused, you are every emotion in the book, but you can survive even without knowing the answers to everything. At some point you have to accept, it is what it is and you may never understand exactly what that is. Then you Move on.
That is closure.Wow. Well stated. As an ENFJ, I CAN'T STAND unfinished tasks--need to complete a task! So I think this is what also influenced my decision to wait for my stbxh to come back around because it just didn't make sense why he gave up so much for THE WHORE. And why he could suddenly just stop loving me.
But when my IC finally helped me to recognize that it doesn't make sense why stbxh would divorce me while being uncertain. (I am one who always wants to know WHY and HOW and find the cause for stuff but I couldn't find a plausible explanation for this) He said therefore, it means stbxh is not reliable with his mental and emotional state...and that is not something I want or need (my decision). And so that is when I dropped the rope! (I do have a thread left but that is my quirky nature- I need the divorce to be legally granted/completed to let go of the fiber of the rope)
When you are perfectly happy doing whatever it is that you do on a Friday or Saturday night without feeling like you need to be out on a date.
Seriously, when you stop "needing" male company. When you are perfectly happy alone with your child. Then, when you do date, you can be more objectively selective.
We're back to how GAL was really for you, and why you needed to do it whether or not you saved your M.
I do not have any issues being home alone on a Fri or Sat night! That IS NOT why I am dating! I am dating for male companionship and for some validation. So what? Dating does not have to mean looking for my next husband, sheesh! 75% time that I was going out this summer was with my friends, not these 3 men I went out with!
When I want to find my next serious relationship, I will approach this pretty damn differently. But I guess I don't have to defend myself...just am procrastinating before starting chores. SO I will respond a little more.
I think I know myself (weaknesses and strengths) and know what I am doing.
Ideally, I could have learned about GAL years ago before I got married but I didn't OK? I learned about GAL from this terrific woman, MWD, because I was facing divorce. So I GALed in order to rebuild my self esteem and to hopefully capture interest of my stbxh. Well obviously we can't make someone else love us. So I still GALed, nonetheless, and it helped me to feel better about myself, meet different people, enjoy my life a little more, etc.
And when I kind of fell into dating, I realized GAL helped to prepare me to date.
DATE. NOT BECOME SERIOUS.
So thanks for helping me to find a way to explain myself I guess ?!?
So thanks for helping me to find a way to explain myself I guess ?!?
All of the men I tell not to look for women to help build their sense of self-worth (to find it on their own) argue with me too.
So you know I am not being sanctimonious, it's not like I haven't looked for female company to help build my self-esteem in the wake of breakups at earlier points in my life.
I'm not doing that now. I like female company, and I do not fear relationships, but I am using this time with myself to work on things I want to do that are easier to do without winding up accidentally in a relationship... which is really something that can happen way too easily... at least in my experience.
For me, it's been like something finally clicks and then you realize - OMG, I've been doing this for like 15-16 f'ing months while DWH has been having his own adventures. F that!
You've done a lot of internal work during your separation, NM, and I'm really happy that you're now testing it out IRL. That's exactly what my therapist has told me to do. I will try.
Anyway, good for you!!!!!! And love hearing about it...
For me, it's been like something finally clicks and then you realize - OMG, I've been doing this for like 15-16 f'ing months while DWH has been having his own adventures. F that!
HOLY CRAP. This is EXACTLY what happened to me this month! EXACTLY.
Are you on FB Mrs A? You know, under a pseudoname or something? I am Chatty Newmama.
Well anyway, this recent short dip into the dating scene has taught me
1)be open to men in their 40s (MEN not boys!)
2)I may be turned off by excessive facial hair but I am not turned off by lack of hair (I already knew that but it is a reminder, lol!)
3)The traditional way of learning about someone through interviews (i.e. tell me about your job, your interests, your family, etc etc) IS BORING and unnecessary!
4) I do want a man who is willing to talk! And it is okay- meaning I used to
think that if I overlooked a quiet guy then I was writing him off. But guess what? I love discourse and do not want to be the only one able to verbalize!
5)Dare to be bold with my opinions(as long as I am tactful) and not worry about turning someone off; If I will like him for him, he can like me for me or we shouldn't be together! I learn fast.
Well have accomplished some chores and reading and am now watching one of my favs,
"Bridget Jones' Diary!"
wow...haven't seen it in like 6 years? or more?
I almost have it memorized! It is familiar like getting together with an old friend! But now I am watching it while choosing S' pics to purchase!!! lol!
I love a man with excessive facial hair! Strangely enough, WH can't grow a beard. . . he says hair don't grow on steel. . . ha ha ha! I thought that was a good one.
some favorite lines in BJ's Diary: (there are several but these are some of my fav's)
1)"It's a truth universally acknowledged that when an area of your life goes ok, another part of it falls spectactularly to pieces!"
2) Mark Darcy says to Bridget "I don't think you are an idiot at all...you really are an appalling bad public speaker and you tend to let whatever is in your head come out of your mouth without much consideration of the consequences...but the thing is what I am trying to say, very inarticulartly, is that in fact, despite appearances, I like you very much....just as you are."
3)BJ: "Wait a minute...nice boys don't kiss like that..."
MD: "Yes they F-ing DO!"
lol Gatsby! You like the rug burn from making out with a beard? OK I realize I might sound sooo superficial! OF COURSE if the guy was great and I was attracted, etc etc then who cares about the facial hair! BUt I bet there are men who say no way to short hair on a woman or bleached hair, etc....
Hi NM. Love Bridget Jones Diary! Great movie!
You are absolutely allowed to say what you want in a man including physical traits... Like you mentioned above for some it facial hair, or their build, or hair color etc. It doesn't make you superficial, makes you real and honest!I always had a thing for eyes! They just have to be beautiful and expressive, H has the most fabulous blue eyes... Now I'm wondering what color S will have!although the baby has my eye shape, everything else looks like my H. Haha
Don't be afraid to say what yo want in a person! Whether its a physical trait, mannerism, ethics, personality etc you re allowed!
Keep up the positive attitude! Xoxo
Whoa...had a disturbing dream...
1)I was back at school as MS. married last name and the kids and staff all came up to me "what happened? Mrs. B? Why are you divorced?"
2)I went to my dad's house and stbxh was there, dropping off S. I go upstairs and was bending over, cleaning something. I end up backing into him, while he is sitting and fall into his lap. stbxh starts brushing aside my hair and kissing me. He says he loves me and never stopped. He wants to "get it on." In my mind, I know it is because he doesn't want any other man to have me. Before I agree, I ask him how it's going with his girlfriend.
3)He says he can't change her...it's too hard, she is too much work, too demanding and he is getting tired. He also says she is bossy and the other day told him (on the phone) that he better hurry home in "5,4,3,2, 1!" He said "newmama, you were NEVER controlling or bossy to me!"
4)He said he really misses me and the first thing he wants to talk to me about is parenting....what it's like to be a parent to our son.
weird...I need to watch something on TV to feel better...
Yes, I dreamt that I walked naked into a meeting of a lot of people to discuss some topic of great importance, and my mother was there. She expressed shock that I was naked. But everyone else ignored it. It's just a dream. I think a couple of people expressed some hope that a younger woman would walk in naked- not me!
whoa--doesn't being naked represent something? Yeah I don't know what triggered my dream but am not reading into it or anything- just feel weird.
BUT I just turned off my profile on plentyoffish.com because there have been some real creeps emailing me lately! And I am not really looking to date anyone else now! ESPECIALLY after what JUST happened:
someone had emailed me like 3 times and I never replied. I decided to reply and say "sorry I haven't replied...I've been busy as a single mom having fun with friends and dating. Where were those pictures taken?"
He replies "those pics were taken in Mauii. Do you want to hang out this morning? DO you want to come to my house and watch a movie? here is my number if you want to text or call me."
WTF?????????????????
I reply "uhm, I think you have the wrong impression of me. For the record, this is how you ask a woman out "Hi, I find you attractive and see that we have some common interests. Would you like to meet for a drink sometime this week?"
Good luck on your search."
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! I feel like I need to take another shower!!!!
p.s. the man was the same age as me- I was thinking maybe he was in his 20s or something! and divorced...bet he cheated!!!
Not much to add, did find the debate about dating to be a lot fo food for thought for me.
Glad that you are able to get out and enjoy yourself.
there is no debate, lol! IMO you do it if you are aware of the risks and are honest up front.
I am going out with Rugby once more if he still wants to go out.
That's it! Turned off my profile on match.
Taking a break!
August's agenda:
1)get S used to daycare
2)get my head back into "work"
3)see my friends and family (with and without S)
4)go back to cooking
5)maybe go to another meetup for fun, meet another single mom friend?
6)get stuff ready to sell on craigslist
7)continue clearing stuff out of my house-look into renting a dumpster
8)continue getting exercise and losing weight
9)work on language development with S
10)get my classroom set up
That was tougher than I expected. Stbxh arrived and is taking some stuff to goodwill for me. I had to talk to him about getting some of his stuff from the house. It was very hard for me not to choke up.
He is a stranger now. Who is raising my son half the time.
So then I told him if he wanted to get his stuff, he could do it when S and I were at the beach here in a couple of weeks.
He said there might be some things he won't deal with until later.
He said I might want to keep some of the furniture around for when my family comes over for Christmas.
I kept telling him that when I move out next year, I want to downsize all my stuff by then, because I won't have 2 living rooms and won't need 4 dressers, etc.
He said "well if you decide to move, then I can take the furniture at that time. Right now I don't have any place to put it."
I swear he said twice "if you move"
I just looked at him like "that's YOUR problem..." He read my mind and said "yeah I know..."
He is being so nonchalant, the $#@$%&!
Ok tonight I am making Melissa D'Arabian's "Pot Roast Carbonnade!"
http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/melissa-darabian/pot-roast-carbonnade-recipe/index.htmlI think S will be able to eat it because it has tender carrots,onions and chuck steak!
For dessert, a pear-apple crumble or some other kind if there is good fruit on sale.
I guess I will just have to eat off of this meal for the next few nights!
So that is cheering me up. I hope I can use my deep dish cast iron pan that I have instead of purchasing a dutch oven!
Sounds delicious!! I would throw all of it into the crock pot! and I would freeze some so in Sept you will have ready meals when you get home from work.
Darn, WN, I read your post after I put it in the oven! Oh well...I made the crisp first, using peaches and blueberries and I'm glad I did because the pot roast took a looong time to prep!
So I had to give S something different (tonight) for dinner but he ate sooo much crisp! (don't worry he had more fruit than the sugary oatmeal topping!)
I can smell the pot roast cooking on a summer evening (only in the 70s though!). Yum! And it called for 12 oz beer, so I bought Fat Tire (22 oz) and had to drink the other 10 oz, lol!
Well I found a cool park downtown with a fountain that I can take S to tomorrow!
My mom called and said she has this week off from work so she can see S and I!
I have lunch with my sister on Tuesday.
Oh and I RSVPed to a night walk with the single parents group on Aug 13 (FRIDAY THE 13TH). So far it is only a couple of single moms going...
Gee, are the laws of attraction working or what?
And Rugby texted me. I still didn't get as excited as with zoobrew but it will be good to go out with him! He was fun at least! I will just tell him to keep his hands to himself, lol!
Curious about how that recipe will come out. I think I would like it with sweet potatoes and without the bacon.
You definitely have a lot on your plate. With S and language development, my nephew is now 15 months and he just now really started to talk a lot, and another friend of mine's son didn't start talking until he was almost 3 (his dad was the same way) and now the son is doing great and his dad is an engineer so there isn't too much to worry about. As long as you do what you would do with your students, talk to him, explain things to him, etc, which I know from your posts that you do, it will come.
Enjoy the rest of your summer!
Thanks for the reassurance about language development, awest!
He isn't behind or anything but he just doesn't say anything other than momma dadda. He seems to understand simple commands so far. I hope daycare will help him talk!
So Lotus, funny that you said THAT: sweet potatoes and no bacon! BECAUSE the recipe was delicious although very rich and heavy from the bacon fat and I forgot to buy carrots so I used some yams I found in the freezer and thought it was really good!
She says first you render the bacon fat, then remove the bacon and caramelize the onions in the fat (for 30 min), and then put the bacon back in at the end to the whole thing... but wow, it was very rich and fatty. I thought to myself "all this bacon isn't necessary, but the bacon fat was probably a good idea!"
Again, the flavors are amazing and the prunes seem to really add to the dish...making it taste kind of molasses like or something!
The funny thing is that it reminds me of Beef Bourganion (WRONG SPELLING!).
The downside is that I feel like I have gained 5 pounds...good thing I don't have a date until Thursday! Time to work it off before then.
Rugby texted me "I have thought about your wonderful company...and can't wait to see you again!"
and he texted me that while I was giving S a bath so the poor guy didn't get a response for 40 minutes! I said I was giving S a bath and "I have thought of you too and look forward to a fun evening with you!"
I wasn't lying--I drove past a sign for a concert in the park this week and thought it would be fun to do that with Rugby! I'll pay for the date...bring some wine and cheese and maybe chocolate! Unless that is too romantic.
I don't know why he won't accept what I told him: am only dating casually, do not want to be exclusive, do not wany any long term relationship, am just enjoying the company of men, doing various activities.
I was telling my mom about him and she didn't like the fact that he had a beard, lol! She wants to set me up with a single French teacher, never married and no kids. I don't know! I will explain to her that I am not going out with any more men but I do want to see his picture, lol!
Hey NewMama -
Recipe sounds good!
We've been doing Friday night travels for several weeks now, and the kids love it! We ending up moving this past Friday meal to today, which was good, because we made Chinese dumplings and spring rolls. Delicious, but LOTS of work. I ate six hours ago and am STILL full, lol!
About the dating - I was thinking just the other day that given how little attention and affection WH has shown me for the last 18 months, I could divorce him and start dating right away, no problem. I wouldn't delve right back into a serious relationship, but waiting another YEAR to date? No, I wouldn't. I've sat home long enough by myself, thank you very much. Time to live again.
So you do what's right for YOU - no one else.
I don't know why he won't accept what I told him: am only dating casually, do not want to be exclusive, do not wany any long term relationship, am just enjoying the company of men, doing various activities.
Because men want what they can't have. We thought you knew that. Oh, go out with the French teacher too. Afterall, you are dating. And you are playing the field.
This is a little late, but your dream was so sad to me. I had a sort of similar dream myself about WH back in February, near bomb-time. It's heart-wrenching, or at least it was to me.
On a brighter note, I love how you slammed the guy on plentyoffish.com! I would have never been so clever.
Red, yummmm! I think I could probably manage to cook one fancy meal every couple weeks...maybe borrow your idea of world travels...in fact, that could be something I share with my students! They always want to know about us and I could look up some various info/facts about each country/region for my cooking. Wow, I could even find some store bought goodies to share...see? we learn so much from each other on this forum!
Yeah, I am STILL FULL from last night.
Lotus, you make a very good point...I will need to remember that for the next guy I am GAGA for. Sorry, folks, but there are rules to initially dating. I read some interesting guidelines about dating that I never heard of (by Susan Elliott...can't find the source!):
first date--(duh) no kissing, casual light discussion, no talk about your ex
DO NOT CALL ON THE PHONE OR COMMUNICATE MUCH BEFORE SECOND DATE, WAIT FOR A WEEK BEFORE SEEING HIM AGAIN, DATE OTHERS
second date--kissing is ok, some more personal discussion, save deep stuff for later
A PHONE CALL BEFORE 3RD DATE IS OKAY, STILL WAIT A WEEK
third date--kissing+, deeper stuff is ok to discuss
DECIDE IF YOU WANT TO BE EXCLUSIVE WITH THIS PERSON; if you want to sleep with them at some point
PHONE CALLS ARE OK
fourth date: anything physical goes, etc.
Now I am not saying I agree with this but found it interesting that she was saying not to go on more than one date per week w/ someone for the first couple dates, and not to talk to them much in between dates...AND sex on the 4th date is ok? lol!
Hey NM, hard to catch up after a couple of days, your thread moves too fast lol.
Re: plentyofish: yeah that's interesting how some people are so aggressive about meeting others. I also think email and texting has really changed how we communicate. I bet it would be very uncomfortable to say that sort of stuff on the phone...but what do I know?!
I like your Aug goals! Did I miss an update on zoobrew? sounds like it's finished for now? Me I'm backing waaay off dating at this point. It's too much of a chore, I'm actually liking just being alone now. Weird. I want to focus more on me.
Romeo- about zoobrew- that was it! I wouldn't be surprised if I hear from him sometime this month, either next week or toward the end of the month. Otherwise, I have my memories and my new standard for next year when I get back out there!
Yeah, the plentyoffish guy emailed me 3 more times to say
1) well, there are 2 movie theaters by my house
2)I'm sorry if I offended you
3)I do find you attractive and would love to hang out with you.
Of course I did not respond to any of them! Thank goodness most of the men DID NOT come across like he did!
As for you backing off on dating and it being a chore- YES IT IS! I remember thinking "I forgot how much WORK this is" and now that we are parents and dating, there is even less time and MORE complications with scheduling, other factors, etc.
So good for you for focusing more on you. I am ready for that as well!
Oh and today I forgot that I had to drop off S in daycare to get him used to it. I KNOW that he will love it, because there are other babies and nice teachers and fun things to do. But of course he started screaming his head off and I had to jet out of there. The director didn't blink- it happens at first!
I told her when I would be back and she said "take your time! Run some errands!" I said "no...I will be back a little earlier probably...this is hard!"
So I am here at home, about to do some massive moving of stuff to the garage, but just procrastinating on the forum first.
Oh and we WILL go to the awesome park later this week...today we will do our usual nature park walk after his nap.
Plentyoffish guy was horny and is now embarrassed.Too bad for him.
You handled the drop off well! DS followed me to the parking lot every morning, the first 3 months of Kindergarten! I felt so bad that he felt bad!
Plentyoffish guy was horny and is now embarrassed.Too bad for him.
Haha!
Newmama, your thread and all this talk about yummy food makes me hungry!
I have this horrifying image of Pee Wee Herman when he got caught in *that* kind of movie theatre!
I am all for letting your freak flag fly but this guy sounds gross!
I still remember the email I got from a random match guy on Christmas Eve morning..."Slip on a thong and come over"....
Gross!
Sad thing is...I am sure someone took him up on his offer.
Too many "rules". I put 'rules' people in another category of desperation altogether.
These 'rules' are setup to filter out the desperate and needy and pushy.
But they are set up for people who are desperate and needy and need rules.
Now, if it takes a week to set up a second date because you are busy with your life and you are not desperate, then that's fine. But you see? It's not a rule, then, is it? It's not acting.
I still remember the email I got from a random match guy on Christmas Eve morning..."Slip on a thong and come over"....
This is why chastity belts were invented...600 years ago!
fourth date: anything physical goes, etc.
...AND sex on the 4th date is ok? lol!
I knew WH for 3 years AND had a ring on my finger before I dropped trou. 4th date? Not!
Geez NM...I take a break from the boards for a couple of days and it took me that long to catch up with just YOU!!!
You are sounding very good!
It is so hard to let them go the first day, but it does get easier. S has a hard time about one month every new school year. He loves being at school and is fine once I leave the daycare, but it is just sad to hear him cry. Now S goes where I worked through college so I have full faith in the workers there because I know them personally.
Good for you though that you are helping him adjust early. Just remember it will get easier.
S loved my pot roast! (so much that he rubbed it in his hair, too!)I want to be the mom who cooks well so that when he grows up he says "nobody can cook like my momma!"
HOWEVER I am realistic and will settle for a couple of famous dishes, like brownies or enchiladas or something, lol!
Awest, luckily S was happy by the time I arrived so I hope Wed will be better.
BobbiJ --- ok that made me laugh so hard!!! That guy had to be joking!!!
I think it is ok to wait between dates. Yes, it is a game, but if you are not immediately available and make them wait 3 or 4 days, it makes you more interesting.
People always want what they can't have/what everyone else wants....iPhone4, iPads, newmama, etc.
I spent the afternoon looking for an Evo phone. WOuld I settle for a lesser, immediately available model? Heck no.
(p.s.: I would never accept a date for Sat after Wed. either. Guys caught on early to 'book' me early. H had to wait 3 weeks for our 1st date)
NM sadly I don't think he was joking! When I first signed on to Match I had the most random experiences. A few started wanting to do text sex starting with day 2 of chatting! Ick. So not my style. Being outgoing and somewhat flirty by nature I think it allowed them to think they had more to gain from me than they did...I have backed off drastically and now am sporadically emailing one man while he is off on reserve training. Gotta like a man in uniform.
Your food sounds awesome! I have gotten lazy this summer but need to step it up with my kids. Mine love my mostaccioli, homemade pancakes/french toast, and tollhouse cookie bars. They like a pretty limited menu...
CW, I didn't see you! I am going to your thread next--
WN, you know what I'm talking about. People would NOT be into a person calling them up to say hi every couple days or daily, someone who gives it all up in the beginning, and always being free. There would be no challenge, no mystery, less appeal....also, we would be training them not to try hard and not to think ahead and plan! They would say "oh, Newmama will be free this weekend, so I can just wait until Thurs or Fri to ask her out. We can just rent a movie, she's easy...in more ways than one." (hey for zoobrew I am! lol! but not for my next boyfriend, que piche?)
Bobbi J,what is mostoccioli? It sounds delicious! ANd fun to say!
Red, wow, you have good will power, holding out for 3 years! Of course it might be 3 years for me, too, lol!
Ok 1st--I made my husband/now ex wait 2 1/2 years before we had sex. Granted he didn't push me as I made it clear I wouldn't sleep with him unless/until I knew I wanted to marry him. Also we started going out when I was 16 1/2 so I was 19 and he was 20 when it finally happened.
Basically my pasta is something I made up but I am sure other people make it too, it's not that difficult! I noticed when I made a pan of lasagna half or more would go to waste. Also I had to cut it up a ton for my little ones to be able to eat it...
So I started making mostaccioli instead. I make my meat sauce layer, and I stir penne pasta into it (the little, 1" or so tubes with grooves on the sides). In a casserole dish I just alternate layers of meat/pasta with layers of mozzarella cheese (you could use mozzarella alone or mix it with ricotta or cottage cheese). So I just alternate the two layers in a casserole and bake it for 30 minutes. The kids love it and find it 'easier' to eat than lasagna. I like it because it is pretty fast and simple.
Wow, BobbiJ, what a clever recipe idea! I will be borrowing that one...
Today was fun and we had a spur of the moment change of plans! S and I met my sister for lunch...we were driving back when she said "so what now?"
Originally, I had to get S home by 5ish so stbxh could pick him up, but he texted me to say that he was going to be late due to his change of flight.
So I had more time on my hands. I brainstormed a little then realized that we hadn't been on the jetboat yet and it was something I wanted to do this summer. So my sister was up for it and since she had a touch phone, she called them up, we got reservations and were on our way!
Since I had a membership to the science museum which was next to the dock for the jetboat, we were able to go in there for free before boarding. Now, I had dressed S in jeans because it was chilly earlier in the afternoon. I also didnt' have diapers but did have some swim diapers.
So the boat did say babies could board. I rolled up S' jeans, sprayed sunblock on him and we waited in line. People sure were shocked to see me bring a baby on board! But I had been on the jetboat 2x before, so I knew what to expect. I didn't have a hat for him and he pulls them off anyway, but I sprayed sunscreen on his scalp. Luckily, a nice Russian woman (seriously!) was on board and offered me a scarf to cover his head! He let me put it on.
He started to fuss while we were waiting but as soon as we got going(he had a life jacket on and I was holding him in my lap) he settled down.
There were some violent spins of course and I held on to him tight, thinking "dang it; if stbxh were with me he would be holding S" but it was fine. At the end, the people around said "wow, he is brave! He did great! good for you for bringing him!"
Then we headed back to drop off my sister, stopped for dinner at a DQ, and stbxh met us in the driveway. UNFORTUNATELY, the swim diapers SUCK and he peed through 3 of them, including his pair of rolled of jeans! Seriously! It made me feel grossed out by all the swim classes I participated in with S and the other babies...peeing through the diapers!
Wow, I am tired for some reason!
Oh and I texted Rugby this a.m. to say hello (since we are going to go out maybe on Thursday). He replied and said "you always make me smile when I hear from you!"
I didn't acknowledge that one...but made some other comment and he asked my plans for the day. At that time, all I knew was we were meeting my sister for lunch. He replied and added "I would love to go to lunch...with you!"
So again, I didn't respond to that comment but said something else and asked him if we were still on for Thursday.
I haven't heard anything since!
Someone tell me...is it me or is he coming on strong?
Yippee I am eligible for a new phone (ANDROID?!? I would love to have access to the internet and look up traffic, nearby restaurants, etc!) and I found out that I can claim head of household on my w-4 as well as child tax credit...yippee! I am doing automatic savings deduction luckily but this means I can still go out to dinner or buy clothes as needed in addition to the practical stuff.
Yippee! I am glad you are finding some perks.
I am waiting for an EVO. They are sold out but I got on many waiting lists yesterday. Lots of flirting with the sales guys :P
Those two tax deductions help so much! When tax time comes, you should get a large deduction which will help a lot.
Cool about tax deductions.
Also, glad to hear about swim diapers sucking. I almost bought some... will hold off!
Also, glad to hear about swim diapers sucking. I almost bought some... will hold off!
Well, they are better than nothing or regular diapers in the water, and they do keep the grosser stuff out of the pool.
Did ya ever notice the kiddie pools are warmer? And you thought it was considerate pool managers! lol
OK please give me your opinion:
I last asked Rugby YESTERDAY at 10:30 a.m. via text if we were still on for Thursday. I have heard nothing since. Right before that question, we were texting a little, back and forth. I already explained.
I am thinking he is being weird or playing games or is peeved...I don't know but my gut doesn't like it! And I am not that into him anyway! So should I
1)just not reply and make other plans (I want to see a movie on Thurs)
2)text him to say "I am not interested in going out with you again. Take care."
3)text him to inquire
I will say that if I don't hear anything today then OF COURSE I will make other plans! But should I inquire? Should I just text to cancel the date?
Looking forward to not dating....
Contacting him for any reason would look like pursuing. How about forgetting about him? If he contacts you today or tomorrow, tell him you didn't hear from him and so made other plans. If he asks for another time, say no thanks, we are not a good fit. If you hear from him after tomorrow, totally ignore him.
Contacting him for any reason would look like pursuing.
I tried to warn her about jumping back into dating before she had done the work to put the M really behind her.
Dating is a battle zone, and there are so many folks who go to work, pay their taxes, and who are otherwise good citizens, but... who have either too much baggage or character issues....
Not being 'ready' yet puts her at least in the 'too much baggage' category, and I dare say a bit too needy to make the best judgements.
I think I had better not comment on this thread anymore.
I tried to warn her about jumping back into dating before she had done the work to put the M really behind her.
Umm....what happened to me? Do I seem damaged or brokenhearted after going out with 3 different men, a total of 5 dates altogether? Nope! I knew exactly what I was going to do and I did it!
DATING SHOULD BE FUN!!! NOT A BATTLE ZONE! LMAO!!!!!!!!
and there are so many folks who go to work, pay their taxes, and who are otherwise good citizens, but... who have either too much baggage or character issues....
Haha! There is NO such thing as someone without baggage or character issues! NO SUCH THING!
Not being 'ready' yet puts her at least in the 'too much baggage' category, and I dare say a bit too needy to make the best judgements.
I AM NOT needy, you silly goose! I was dating for entertainment, accidentally actually, and I DO NOT NEED a boyfriend or to date!!! My judgments are right on!!!
I think I had better not comment on this thread anymore.
Thank you. Best of luck to you and your life.
WN, Thank you for your input. I think it makes perfect sense for the situation! And the thing is that I am actually relieved to not be going out with this one. I think the fact that he came on SO STRONG made me uncomfortable! Hey, I will go about my life and if someone comes along, I may go out with him. Otherwise, I will wait until spring before going on the hunt!
I will go about my life and if someone comes along, I may go out with him.
Love the plan! Letting life happen! You might be surprised!
I also agree to not contact him again. He seemed to be coming on pretty strong even though you told him that you did NOT want anything serious. Then to just stop talking when you ask about Thursday because you didn't want him to come with you and your sister to lunch, he seems too eager to me.
Have fun going to a movie.
I agree with WN. I think because he didn't respond to you it's a perfect out for you. If he comes back then you tell him like WN suggested. I was OK with Zoobrew (he seemed genuine and a MITCH! lol) but Rugby sounded a bit too needy...remember I commented in the passing that wow he was already touching your stomach etc? but then I thought that's how other guys are
Other than that sounds like you're well and good!
DATING SHOULD BE FUN!!! NOT A BATTLE ZONE! LMAO!!!!!!!!
Says who? Never been on a bad date? Let's face it, most of them are not so good.
Let's label bad dates:
1. Serial dater. She isn't looking for any kind of relationship; she just wants you to spend your money entertaining her.
2. Bad attitude: He/She is either angry or depressed and you find yourself looking for a way to wind the date up early so you don't become the target of their anger or wind up blowing your own brains out after being infected with their depression.
3. More baggage than a bell hop at a Vegas hotel: they spend most of their time telling you about their last relationship..., or worse... the string of utterly horrific relationships they've been in.
4. The potential stalker: after the 30th email and 50th phone call you find yourself thinking, "I am so glad they do not know where I live... but... oh no... they can buy that information!".
5. Fruit loop: this man/woman has more cats than is healthy, a string of phobias that would impress Sigmund Freud, keeps asking you if you think they are strange, but tells you they have discovered the meaning of life and true happiness through healing crystals. Oh, and they have psychic abilities.
Shall I go on?
It's a battlefield... especially if you go on those dating sites.
I have to disagree. I have been on dates with about a dozen women from "those dating sites", and I don't think any would fall into any of those categories. Only a few warranted a second date, but that's not the same thing as being a bad date.
It's not necessarily easy, but I don't think it's anywhere near a battlefield.
I have to disagree. I have been on dates with about a dozen women from "those dating sites", and I don't think any would fall into any of those categories. Only a few warranted a second date, but that's not the same thing as being a bad date.
I too have not had any bad dates from match dot com or met any of those categories TimeHeals mentions. I went into each one with an attitude that even if we were not compatible, I still want to enjoy the conversation and learn about someone new.
I have to agree with the others on Rugby, too clingy right from the start and if he can't give you the courtesy of an answer, why give him the courtesy of your presence? Go see the movie, then tell us all about it. What movie is it?
With the swimming diapers, they are not meant to be for anything but swimming. If you use them just in the pool or some type of water I have found them to work great, but S wasn't in them for longer than 2 or 3 hours at a time. Then I would change him. As a replacement for a diaper they won't work, but just for swimming, it is so much better than a diaper that is soaked and won't hold a thing because they are already soaked with water.
lol! swimming diapers and online dating are 2 topics that generate a lot of opinions!
Well it makes sense that the diapers are supposed to keep #2 in but allow #1 to flow. Again, I ONLY used them because they were in the car! But now I know, right?
S' day at daycare for 4 hours was a success- no fussing and he has made a buddy! I spent some time with a teacher friend, eating lunch (I eat a lot of salads or soups!) and buying some supplies...the beginning of the year is the best! FRESH...tabula rasa!
Now I am off to visit my g-ma and help her with online bills, but g-ma wants some KFC! Calorie wise, I think I can eat the mashed potatoes...will look it up!
and no word from Rugby (phew!) so I deleted his number officially from my phone. Hey, at least he didn't try to sext me!
swimming diapers and online dating are 2 topics that generate a lot of opinions!
On both topics, I say better than nothing!
KFC...try the grilled! (probably MORE fat!)
Well when I joined match i got a handful of pervs wanting text sex, phone sex, or of course real sex if they thought they could get it
I wound up removing 1200 profiles before I un-subscribed. I would rather be alone than with someone I am not drawn to... I had one gross date, one nice date w/a guy who realized he was still hung up on the pain of his second divorce, then guy #3 I had known in college but when we met all I felt was friend potential. Decided to get my stuff in order before I tread out there again.
Sounds like you are having fun. The jetboat sounds like a good time!
This is all very fascinating to me (not the diaper part because I am having strokes thinking about a #2 floating in a pool).
My friend and I were talking about online dating last night. Her philosophy is it makes sense, it's efficient and what people do as their lives progress and become more complicated. I don't think there is anything wrong with it and I support anybody's choice to do it but I just feel creeped out thinking about it FOR ME. I guess I always thought meeting somebody would be a natural and organic experience. I guess I think it should be a bit more tangible (for me). I just can't wrap my head around the concept. But then I got to thinking GEESH, we put our whole lives on this site but it's for a different purpose (help, support, guidance) so it's sort of the same but not really.
Maybe because I have never done it and feel so *something* about it I am thinking about it all wrong. It just seems odd to sort through profiles picking and choosing but on the other hand it actually makes perfect sense. Like if you hate dogs you wouldn't choose somebody that owns 170 dogs, is a vet and runs a dog shelter on the side. The friend I was having this discussion with said it's like shopping, lol!
Even the idea of a blind date is out there to me. Maybe *I* am the one who dates all wrong!
The other thing I am trying to wrap my head around is why ya'll say yes to dates when you don't like the person (I mean you might like them but don't want to have anything to do with them as far as anything more goes). Why not just say no? That is what I would do but clearly my dating skills need some work.
I dated a few really good/nice/interesting guys a while back and it seemed like an absolute chore and a half. I declined further dates and one of the asked me why and maybe I should have said something different but I really just told him the truth and the truth was I didn't like it!
I am not directing this at anybody but the discussion is interesting!
Do they have dating books? Maybe I need to read some and get with the program!
CG-The first guy who turned out gross was interesting on the phone and via text. However as soon as we met I could see he chose a picture of him that put his best foot forward, so to speak...and he started getting grabby within minutes (we met to play darts/shuffleboard at a pub & grill and when I turned to throw he grabbed at my butt!?!)...so NO MORE that guy!!
But from that I learned to go with my gut, hence blocking 1200 profiles before giving up on Match. Meetup groups may be a better idea bc just being there in the first place means you share a common interest, plus you would be socializing in a group/safe setting before going on a date.
The other thing I am trying to wrap my head around is why ya'll say yes to dates when you don't like the person (I mean you might like them but don't want to have anything to do with them as far as anything more goes). Why not just say no? That is what I would do but clearly my dating skills need some work.
Hi CG! This made me think about my MLC H...he asked me out after a night at the bar celebrating a friends b-day...I had fun with him and we had mutual friends but didn't think about him any other way...he called and asked me out..I said yes, just for the heck of it cause I knew I'd have fun! We got married 2 yrs later....ya never know!
Of course....I am not sure sure now......
Right, I get what you are saying.
I think what really creeps me out is the idea of some guy sifting through profiles of 100's of women sort of picking and choosing. Like how do you know the guy isn't a freak sitting there in his undershorts just looking at women!? It just feels scary to me. Not like I am scared to date but scared of the people. I get you can filter them out but I think the idea of somebody putting tons of women in a "shopping cart" turns me off.
Then I think there are many lovely men on this site that I think are fantastic and they are online dating so really it might be okay.
I will have to ponder this more I guess!
CG,
I think what really creeps me out is the idea of some guy sifting through profiles of 100's of women sort of picking and choosing. Like how do you know the guy isn't a freak sitting there in his undershorts just looking at women!? It just feels scary to me. Not like I am scared to date but scared of the people. I get you can filter them out but I think the idea of somebody putting tons of women in a "shopping cart" turns me off.
I hear you. I wouldn't put myself on a dating site as a "product." Notwithstanding I'm not looking for any relationship at this point.
Then I think there are many lovely men on this site that I think are fantastic and they are online dating so really it might be okay.
I've often posted that this site is filled with good, decent people who value their marriages, consider vows sacred and go through unbelievable pain - and cruelty - to try to save that which they value.
We should all be dating each other!
The other thing I am trying to wrap my head around is why ya'll say yes to dates when you don't like the person (I mean you might like them but don't want to have anything to do with them as far as anything more goes). Why not just say no?
Good question, CG! First, what CW said! Second, in this case with Rugby, here is a history:
1)June he emailed me when I turned my profile back on; we had some things in common, he looked cute in his pics, I liked that he had 50% custody of his kids, so I emailed him back...was thinking I might try dating.
2)When stbxh told me he was uncertain about filing for D a few days later, I emailed Rugby back and said it was too soon for me to date
3)When zoobrew and I went out and I was head over heels, my friend C told me to date others so as not to get attached. I looked up Rugby and asked if he'd give me another chance.
4)We finally go on the date; IMO he wasn't terrible nor was he great. We did have a good phone conversation previous. We had fun conversation on the date. I "allowed" kissing--he didn't push himself on me! He called me immediately after to make sure we would go out again. I said yes but didn't specify a time or day and told him we would talk soon. I thought that because zoobrew was on mymind, maybe I didn't give Rugby the full attention he deserved and maybe I would feel sparks on the 2nd date.
So the combination of all 4 things are why I said yes to a second date...
I think what really creeps me out is the idea of some guy sifting through profiles of 100's of women sort of picking and choosing. Like how do you know the guy isn't a freak sitting there in his undershorts just looking at women!? It just feels scary to me. Not like I am scared to date but scared of the people. I get you can filter them out but I think the idea of somebody putting tons of women in a "shopping cart" turns me off.
Ah, but you see, WOMEN get to sift through MEN's profiles and pick and choose, too! It's the 21st century!
Now what pics do you think women are posting? I mean do men just love to sit there looking at smiling women wearing decent clothes when they could also look at smiling women on TV, in the grocery store, at work, in magazines, etc...the women mostly look normal! There ARE some who choose to post pics of themselves in bikinis or lingerie or lowcut shirts, etc...uh, DUH? don't do that!? what are these women thinking?! And the same goes for men!
(FYI There are 2 big pet peeves of men's pictures that I can't stand.
1) the guy who just didn't even try. He is wearing a sloppy t-shirt and holding his cell phone up in the mirror, barely smiling. It's like he is thinking "eh, take it or leave it, here I am. You like it or not." Yeah wonder how he would like a pic of me doing the same thing?
2)when the men only have pics of themselves wearing sunglasses.
3)Oh, wait- guess I have a 3rd- all the pics are goofy on purpose, like to show their humor....but we need to see the face!!!)
And you meet in a public place, keep the date brief (unless it's going well),and if you are really paranoid, do not let him see where you parked or see your car.
But you know something? I think the odds are greater of meeting a creep in a bar versus on the internet. Not that those are the only 2 options,lol!
It's just that I agree with your friend, CG, that it is efficient to use online dating, especially if you don't have access to meeting men the regular way (like you do in your community). CG, I think in your case, you don't need the internet for dating! And yes, there are some very excellent men on this DB forum!
I understand your caution CW. I would also be cautious because H would get on all these websites (FB, myspace, dating pages, etc) and put up a fake profile with a fake name and a fake pic in order to meet some girls and have virtual sex so to me, I would just as well stay away because I know there are creeps out there. It is definitely hard, but I think at some point I may go there just to see if it could work, but I am with you, I would rather meet someone in person.
Thanks so much for the interesting discussion!
NM - I have never even looked at a dating site so I guess I have an image conjured up in my head without really knowing what it is. That was a good way to put it... people look at people all the time in their daily lives in a non freaky way!
I have lots of fun reading about all the dating adventures on this board!
Sometimes I walk my dog late at night so my friend got me pepper spray called Ms. Whoop Ass. I guess if I ever online date I can put in my profile: I own Ms. Whoop Ass and I am NOT afraid to use it!
Awest - that is really horrible about your H. I am so sorry.
...my friend got me pepper spray called Ms. Whoop Ass.
it!
Ha, Gardener!
Just as a general FYI if anybody is wondering if pepper spray really works.. it does. I almost KILLED my brother in law by accident
Ha, Gardener!
Just as a general FYI if anybody is wondering if pepper spray really works.. it does. I almost KILLED my brother in law by accident
By
accident?
How to Avoid Date Rape using Pepper Spray...
•Step 1
Keep your pepper spray handy. Special canisters are made to fit on key chains or belt loops. Designate a convenient place to store your pepper spray so you won't have to waste time looking for it during a date rape situation.
•Step 2
Practice firing your pepper spray before going on a date. Find an open field and practice aiming your pepper-spray stream. Avoid blowback by paying attention to the wind before spraying.
•Step 3
Hold the pepper spray at eye level while spraying an attacker. For best results, you'll want to spray your attacker in and around his eyes.
•Step 4
Use the "fanning" technique while squirting pepper spray. It's likely that your attacker will try to evade the stream. By spraying the stream back and forth, you'll be able to hit your target even if he's moving.
•Step 5
Fire in short bursts of two or three seconds.
•Step 6
Back away while spraying an attacker. This will make it more difficult for him to strike you or swipe the pepper spray container out of your hand.
•Step 7
Yell "stop" or "no" as you spray. Loud sounds will disorient your attacker and draw attention to the date rape in process.
•Step 8
Wave your free hand while spraying. This can be a good way to further confuse your attacker.
•Step 9
Keep your own eyes open while spraying. It's important that you hit your target, so you'll have to resist the temptation to close your own eyes.
•Step 10
Run and call for help once your attacker is incapacitated. Because the pepper spray is temporarily blinding, he'll be unable to chase after you
•Optional
If the attacker has his hands over his eyes in pain, a really good swift kick to his balls will be the coup de grâce to end the date and leave no question in his mind that you no longer desire to see him again.
Thanks, Kerry! I will print that out and keep it handy. If I get attacked I will tell the attacker "wait a minute, gotta use my instructions" LOL!
I like the "optional" bullet point!
When I first got the spray I went to my sister's garage and sprayed it in there (yes, blow back is serious business). My BIL walked out and almost fell on the ground from choking. Thankfully he was not hurt!
The spray I carry in my car has a combination of pepper spray, tear gar and an ultraviolet dye (which I dont need) that can be used for tracking down the perp.
TEAR GAS? You *are* prepared! I don't want to give the impression I walk around blinding random dudes with pepper spray. Other than my BIL (LOL! poor thing!) I have never used it!
I've only carried the spray with the kids in areas of downtown Portland that have unsavory individuals or areas with dogs off leash. I got it mainly because my daughter had once been chased around me by a Pit Bull and my foot to the dogs head hardly phased it.
My XW would legally carry something a wee bit more potent than pepper spray. I used to envision us getting mugged and myself reenacting an Al Pacino line from Scarface - "Honey, shoot dis piece of sh!t for me".
I hear you on the unleashed dogs. It is SO dangerous. My dog was (blindly) attacked TWICE last summer by unleashed dogs. We have a leash law and most people do follow it but nothing angers me more than unleashed dogs. It is dangerous to people and other animals.
Have you ever seen those little gadgets that you can carry when you walk a dog? Apparently they give off a sound only dogs can hear and they run away. I have always wondered if they work.
My pet peeve is when the dog owner says "Oh, she/he is a friendly dog" when my daughter expresses fear when any unleashed dog approaches her.
There was a little girl who cut through the park near my house last year and was attacked by a "friendly" dog. This child was near death she was mauled so bad. I followed the news story for a long time and I think she was in the hospital for three or four months.
We all love our dogs but animals are just that. Animals. When their instincts kick in friendly goes out of the window.
My neighbor has a teeny yorkie that weighs maybe 5 lbs. This dog is so aggressive and nasty I can't even go in her house anymore.
I can't blame your daughter a bit. I have a dog and *I* am afraid of unleashed dogs.
When their instincts kick in friendly goes out of the window.
For a second there I thought we were still talking about dogs and not WAS.
If you ever get attacked by a mean nasty dog just jam your fist in his mouth, grab the back of his neck and hold him down on the ground. Ok I made that up but at least it sounds plausible- let me know if it works
lol! Ms. Whoop Ass! Is that where that line "I'm gonna open me a can of Whoop Ass on you" (or something) came from?
Kerry, good idea about practicing using the mace! I haven't yet but I definitely don't think I would be paying attention to the direction of the wind....so very good point of the whole list to remember!
S and I just returned from a state park for a hike... I had never been there. I do have my cell phone in my pocket but I guess I should hook some mace on my key chain! There were plenty of people around.
We saw people riding some gorgeous horses along the trails and S was eating a snack at the time- he opened his mouth and the cracker dropped out as he stared in awe at the horses! So cute!
I need to say one positive about being a single parent is that S and I can do whatever WE want (well right now it is what I want but when he gets a voice, I'll honor his requests...within reason!
). And who cares if there is no parking or it's crowded! (2 of the reasons stbxh sometimes didn't want to do stuff).
Not to mention that I ate popcorn in bed last night!
If you ever get attacked by a mean nasty dog just jam your fist in his mouth, grab the back of his neck and hold him down on the ground. Ok I made that up but at least it sounds plausible- let me know if it works
Some dogs can exert 400+ lbs of force when biting. A good way to get your had broken.
You were right on with the grabbing by the back of the neck. If you don't have a snare, then back of the neck with one hand, and throat with other hand, and then push them to the ground. Once you have them in this hold, they can't bite you, but they can scratch.
You may get bit doing this, but you were going to get a bite anyway if you are so close you have to do this to a dog that is red lining.
My youngest flipped out today, and I got between her and another dog, and I got my hand bitten. Hurt like heck though she didn't bite hard enough to break the skin, and she wasn't trying to bite ME.
If you are having trouble getting a hold on the animal, smack it on the nose. Do not smack your own dog on the nose
Some dogs can exert 400+ lbs of force when biting.
I was always amazed how my dog could bite through those dried pig ears and hard leather like it was butter, but when given a peeled banana, my dog just could not bring herselft to bite through it. Dog's teeth may not be nearly as sharp as a cats, but those jaw muscles make up for it.
Welcome to the Canine Channel!
Gabbysmom, your group of friends sound like fun! I wish I had some single friends...am working on it. J is such a flake! Seriously when I want to make friends with someone, I need them to return my texts/ or emails or calls within a couple days, not a couple weeks! I thought she didn't like me or something but then got an email saying "haven't heard from you in awhile, what's up?" so I told her, then asked a q or 2 about her...she replied and there was reason for me to ask her another q about her life so I did. It has now been 5 days since then and no reply!
Welcome to the Canine Channel!
You know why men like dogs so much?
If you feed the dog, walk the dog, and ocassionally pet the dog and do not hurt the dog...,
the dog will really, really, really love you otherwise unconditionally
The thing that would throw me off at one of those speed dating events is glancing around at the competition.
Why, Kerry? What is your concern?
Just the whole mindset that the speed dating might be considered more of a competition. I've never tried it so I really cant comment.
I remember going to a busy nightclub once. They gave the ladies a nut and the guys a screw upon entrance. The object was to mingle around and find the lady who had a nut that would fit your bolt.
The object was to mingle around and find the lady who had a nut that would fit your bolt.
HAHA! Holy moly! I have never heard of such a thing! So was the lady who matched your bolt cute?
I am not that keen on speed dating...I guess it could be "hook up" dating. I mean you have 10 minutes or whatever to look at the people and ask them life defining questions? I don't think so!
I would think it was very robotic...of course I could see myself going "Hi! What did you eat for breakfast? Do you like swimming in a lake?" and being silly, asking random qs!
But if CG is doing it, heck, maybe I would based on her report!
So guess who just sent me a text? YEPPERS...zoobrew!
I went upstairs to change into my workout clothes and was thinking of him, actually...just thinking about my dream which I will explain in a minute. I checked my phone and
"Hi Ms. Newmama. Been on any hot dates lately? ;)"
So I replied
"Well none since you, zoobrew! I told you!;) "
hope that was flirty/clever enough!
It has been 20 minutes now since I replied...and nothing from him! What a tease!
So this was my dream LAST NIGHT:
I sent zoobrew a text saying "just so you know, I never went out with that guy again or anyone else..." and then zoobrew called me. He said he was wondering but didn't want to ask and that he wasn't sure if I was going to just try to get out there and sow my oats or if I really was "into" him!
And that is all I remember! weird coincidence.
Back to real life:
So now I just wait for zoobrew to say something, right?
So now I just wait for zoobrew to say something, right?
Yes!
Me thinks that you had a little lingering effect on Mr. I Don't Know What I Want or whatever his reason was!
Let him pursue!
Thanks CW! I listened...and he replied
"You funny. I meant...you know what I meant lol!"
I replied
"Do I? I haven't been out with that dude or anyone else. Why do you ask, hmmm?;)"
And he said:
"just curious. Mind If I call you tonight after 8:30?"
And I said
"sure...but can we make it after 9? I am seeing a movie (not a date, lol!)"
so we will be chatting later! The reason why I told him I didn't have a date was because my gut told me to.
weeeeee! calm cool collected. calm cool collected. lol!
I never did speed dating NM! I have heard of it but have never done it!
OOPS! Sorry Gabbysmom! I got you mixed up! Ok am waiting for zoobrew to call and I am NERVOUS!
I just didn't know for sure if I would hear from him after my STUPID foolish texting...
One of my greatest joys throughout such a horrible life changing experience is finding out more about me and what I like.
I can relate...although I was 28 when I met stbxh, I was only 70% developed if that makes sense! When I went out with Rugby, he asked me what my favorite song and movie were...I couldn't answer! Now partly that is because I have always had a hard time choosing ONE thing...since I was a kid...but the other is because I forgot my individual likes and dislikes.
As for friends, I totally agree! Like I said before, this dating thing over the past few weeks was accidental but I am going to have a fling with zoobrew if he is interested and retreat, make more friends, etc. I realize it sounds very sleazy to admit that I want a fling, but so what...I know I am a decent person who is capable of a mature, committed relationship and that is ultimately what I want in the FUTURE. But am not ready for that now!
Ok the movie "Grownups" was very Adam Sandler funny- and he cracks me up!! It is the little kid in me or something! If you don't like Adam Sandler's movies, you won't like this one, but David Spade, Adam Sandler, and Kevin James were really hilarious and I was surprised that Selma Hayak could hold her own with that crew. Chris Rock usually cracks me up, but he is good about joking around intelligent, political topics and didn't shine as much in this goofy, slapstick kind of movie.
sheesh, my heart is pounding! hee hee!
I get you about the fling - just be careful. If I've learned anything about these foolish things we call "emotions," is that they are not always rational or controllable. The heart can be a pretty dopey thing. It is very easy to get swept up and get hurt.
I think I hit my fling at just the right time - still too enmeshed to be capable of falling in love with someone else, but detached enough to not freak out over someone else seeing me naked. It helped that I chose someone who was SO completely NOT R material, but I found physically attractive to me....and I was lucky in that he was "talented," even more-so than my ex in some areas (which surprised me). We had NOTHING to talk about, really. And didn't need to. It lasted about 3 months on a very irregular schedule, when he conveniently moved cross-country. I had fun, and came away realizing that I wasn't a troll, and that there could be a future R out there for me, when I was ready. What's that song - "I used him and she used me and neither one cared; we were getting our share."
Like we said back in college, "Double-up and Pull-out!" Stay safe.
That all being said, sticking to your morals, building your support base and circle of same-sex friends, exploring hobbies and interests and learning more about yourself, GAL activities, reading, self-realization, etc., is probably a healthier and safer way to go.
Your heart should not be fluttering over a fling.
NM
I want to see Grown Ups! I have celebrity crushes on Sandler and James! It looks good!
I think I hit my fling at just the right time - still too enmeshed to be capable of falling in love with someone else, but detached enough to not freak out over someone else seeing me naked. It helped that I chose someone who was SO completely NOT R material, but I found physically attractive to me....and I was lucky in that he was "talented,"
YES- this is where I think I am--not capable of falling in love with someone else but ready for someone to see me naked- ok that sounded bad! NOT JUST ANYONE lol!
Thank you, Donna, for sharing your story because I felt kind of "exposed" revealing my thoughts about the fling. I just KNOW that someone else (or many) have been in the same place where I am so I figured I might as well say it.
Now...about my heart fluttering...I meant PHYSICALLY not emotionally! My heart was pounding due to being nervous.
I have talked to him PART 1- he is with his kids( they were not in the same room!)and was telling me (summarized) about why he started thinking about how he should resolve things with his exG. That he had a great time on both of our dates but her family called him the next day and that her mom said she has always had these anger issues. I still can't tell what he "wants" so to speak...he said he promised his kids a night walk so he was going to do that and then call me back later.
BUT he did want to know about my date and I didn't share tooo much (I AM smarter than I probably come across on here, lol!) but I said that I know it was was rude to text him while I was on a date with someone else. I explained that it was impulsive and induced by alcohol yet I meant what I said. He said that he knew from our conversations and dates that I wasn't a rude person and he found the texts amusing so he didn't think less of me at all. PHEW!
Well we will be talking more here in a few minutes...but he did say he thinks internet dating is for "hooking up" and that you should meet people face to face.
Yeah. Well I will be debating that with him. Blind dates from people you know VS. internet dating with profiles to scan...I had one successful blind date. I think the odds are the same!
I'd be thrilled with any attention, even from a peeper!!!
Ok just finished talking...wow I learned so much from DBing and MWD! Well, weird as it sounds, it was a discussion mostly centered around his relationship with his exG.He is going to talk to her next week to see where they stand.
He said he called because he wanted to explain why he backed out...(my gut also says something else) but we talked for another 90 minutes all about things like co-dependency and what is important in a relationship, etc. Still, mostly about his relationship with her
I shared some OBJECTIVE (good for me!) opinions like:
1)4 months is TOO SHORT to expect someone with a lifetime of anger issues to change-he thinks she should be an improved version when they talk next week (WHAT???!!! after FOUR months????)
2)ACTIONS speak louder...she can talk all she wants but he won't know until they resume things between them to see if she is practicing what she preaches. So he needs to be WARY.
3)He has every right to expect her to comply with his requests (trust me, folks) and he is worthy of that
4)She thinks he will always be there, because her stuff is still at his house, he is still talking to her family and telling them how he is standing by her if she gets control over her anger management issues...he will need to 100% ready to walk away from the "messed up" version of her (but willing to take back the improved version)
5)He is an excellent catch and will be snatched up in no time but that she is holding on to him still because he is allowing it yet she KNOWS he is an excellent catch!
6)It may take him walking away completely, cutting off all contact with her family, moving her stuff out for her to get it
Gee, was I talking about myself here? I AM A SLOW LEARNER!
Oh and he said a few times that he just thinks in his gut that they won't end up together...
I think that if he wanted to talk to me about JUST his relationship issues, his text would have been something like
"Hi newmama! How are you? Can we talk later tonight?"
and no flirty statements.
That is my gut....do you think I am right?
IDK newmama. This guy says he is standing by her if she fixes her anger issues....but he is dating you???? I am confused.
Hard to say, NM. Someone who spends 90 minutes talking about their exgf isn't looking for a new relationship - they're looking for a shoulder to cry on, IMO.
Where do you look for guys in person?
By doing things you like to do, like going to museums, wine tastings, cooking classes, singles cruises, or by doing things GUYS like to do like sports bars, car shows, boat shows, etc.
Not that I'm an expert. I read it in an old book from the 80's called "How to Marry the Rich" by Ginie Polo Sayers.
After my father died, my mother told me, "The first time I married was for love. The second time would be for money."
Crass...or sage advice?
As Ginie pointed out in her book, "It's as easy to fall in love with a rich guy as a poor guy. And you tend to have more fun with someone who's not sweating his car payment." Later in the book she says, "Some people call me a gold digger. But we all have criteria for potential mates, whether it be education, politics, or religion. One of my criteria just happens to be money."
Maybe I'm being cynical....
I agree - he sounds like he wants a friend. He knows you are interested and flirts enough to keep you hooked so he has somebody to talk to.
I would wish him luck with his R problems and find zoobrew2!
Think about it... he ASKED to call you then talked about his GF(ex?) all night! Did he ask anything about you more than pleasantries?
Now this guy has me mad! How rude!
Now this guy has me mad! How rude!
You guys crack me up. She's on the rebound, he's on the rebound, what's there to be upset about?
Or in my more cynical colloquial: between the two of them, they've got more baggage than the whole team of bell hops at Trump Towers
Well, IMO the thing to be upset about is a MAN knowing full well a woman is in to him and using that fact to talk about his GF for hours under the guise of being interested.
As I said, I am NO expert when it comes to dating but it's a pretty sh*tty thing to do.
As I said, I am NO expert when it comes to dating but it's a pretty sh*tty thing to do.
I told her she would probably run into such an archtype while dating in my "dating is a battlefield sometimes" admonisions. I was dismissed by her with the pronouncement that "dating should be fun" in all capital letters (I think she was shouting?).
It's not that I don't see what you are saying, but do you see that she is on the rebound sa bit here too?
Let's be honest about men and women dating. While you hope the date is pleasant, if you are dating for the right reasons, then you are at least hoping that among the many people you might have to date, that you meet somebody who you feel a connection to and who feels the same way about you, and hopefully that you are both healthy enough emotionally and mentally not to screw it completely up at some point.
That is exactly why I am saying it! Of course I understand that she is on the rebound. Sometimes though it is hard to see where you are at when you are there... its hard to get out of your own head.
It's like being drunk and not realizing you are drunk but everybody else sees you falling down and slurring your words.
IMO it's not easy to "see" things sometimes when you are in it.
Red--I met him at a zoo brewfest--not online...and I cracked up about the rest...money is a good discussion for another topic, actually!
WN-yeah...kind of confusing! He WASN'T originally looking to date, but then I asked him out.About that time, the "switch" went off where he realized it wasn't whether she would take HIM back but whether he would take HER back. So he decided to date and see what's out there and just to have fun.
I really think he did the right thing by telling me that he was having conflict over his exG, but...
CG-I think you're right! He wanted a listener/helper...I figured that I would just go with it, because I am not looking for anything, so who cares? He did ask me about my stuff, too, but I admit that I was in "helper" mode and since he is going to talk to her next week, and since I didn't know if I would be seeing him again, I didn't feel like baring my soul...if that makes sense!
Timeheals...I will acknowledge your comments as long as you please don't talk about me as if I am not here (it sounds very condescending and although you are older than me, you are not old enough to be my father).
Thanks! And yes DATING IS FUN!!! I AM SHOUTING, LOL! If it stops being fun, then that is when you shouldn't be dating...or at least that person. Pretty simple! (IMO)
P.S. I still do not feel disappointed (deeply), or hurt, so yay for me! It means that this was still ok for me to do!
He wanted a listener/helper...I figured that I would just go with it, because I am not looking for anything, so who cares? He did ask me about my stuff, too, but I admit that I was in "helper" mode and since he is going to talk to her next week, and since I didn't know if I would be seeing him again, I didn't feel like baring my soul...if that makes sense!
OK, so you went out on a date with somebody you claim you had very little interest in romantically speaking. You asked him out, so there must have been some interest, right?
BTW, who paid for this date?
Ok about money....I USED to think it didn't matter; that he could make less than me....as long as we loved each other, right? BUT
Then I realized I have these beliefs/ideas I don't know what you call them around money.
like
1)independence--I am grateful for my degree, and my job, so that I won't have to "ask" my H for money and I get a say in financial stuff and, well look what happened, I have a way to support myself.
2)drive, ambition--FOR ME, if a man makes less than me,(again, I am a teacher, folks) he better be doing something like starting his own business, writing the great American Novel, or something that isn't just him being satisfied with his low paying job. This is for me, others may want that man...I won't be able to respect him. OH THAT SOUNDS BAD! But I think it is the deep, dark truth! FOR ME!
3)responsibility--if a man (or woman) can manage their money, be credit card debt free and afford to go out, that shows me he is responsible, BUT
4)no tightwads...IF there is money in savings and money left after the bills, come on- it is fine to rent a cabin at the beach or something!
5)money= freedom....it doesn't buy you happiness, but it does give you OPTIONS in life!
Timeheals, I paid...are you thinking he used me for a kayak trip? lol! It's ok! It was worth the adventure and the steamy kissing!
Oh and my interest in him was not for LOVE...
are you thinking he used me for a kayak trip?
I wasn't thinking much. I was asking you a couple of questions and trying to understand.
It was worth the adventure and the steamy kissing!
So is this what you were looking for when you asked him out and paid for this date? An ego boost? Some entertainment?
Exactly, Timeheals! And I made it clear that I was not looking for anything serious!
Exactly, Timeheals! And I made it clear that I was not looking for anything serious!
So I stand by my original assesment: no harm, no foul. You got what you wanted, he apparently got what he wanted, and we could criticise him (and you) according to a level of expectations about what folks with less baggage might do on a date, but what's the point?
I assume you find R-talk somewhat entertaining or else you probably wouldn't read and post on other peoples' threads, so I don't see why anybody should be so harsh in their judgement on this guy: is he ready for a serious relationship? Nope, not even close. Are you? By your own admission, you're not.
so I don't see why anybody should be so harsh in their judgement on this guy: is he ready for a serious relationship? Nope, not even close. Are you? By your own admission, you're not
.
wow---you and I are seeing eye to eye?
I think he was being honest and open!!
wow---you and I are seeing eye to eye?
About judging this guy? Sure. You are choosing a different path than I am, but that is your choice.
So next Friday, stbxh has S instead of Saturday...and there is a meetup event that sounds super fun! Night golfing with glow in the dark balls! Being at night, maybe it will be less noticeable if I mess up really bad! So I am totally going. Yippee!
Just got back from picking up my favorite scented lotion of all time, "Love Spell," from VS. They were having their bi-annual 6 for 30 special. Only problem is the spell doesn't work. (ha.ha. ha.)
Also picked up something else- but can't say it on here- starts with "p" (if you have read Romeo's thread lately you will get it!)
And I purchased some scented handsoap from BedBath&Beyond...$1 each. There are 4 sinks in my house, so they each get one..3 scents altogether though: cucumber-melon, grapefruit, and fig-brown sugar. This is all part of aromatherapy!
Next, an evening stroll with S...hope to get an hour total in...we will stop at the park in the middle. (I think eating pizza and drinking last week finally caught up with me
)
Night golf.... if I ever see it around here, I think I will have to try it! It sounds like lunacy!
NM, they do night golf around here too and it sounds awesome! The following refers to a post a few pages back, but I want to suggest one more reason for "dating" someone that you might not want to live happily ever after with - it gives you practice!
We spend all this time reading relationship books and posting on/reading this board, and it's all theoretical! I mean, we're practicing on our WAS, but OBVIOUSLY they have baggage and we have history. It's not exactly representative of what a new dating life would look like.
Soooo... like you mentioned about starting the new school year tabula rasa, we may feel like starting our new romantic path the same way. You know, testing the waters on people unlike our own errant spouses. If nothing else, that move will CERTAINLY teach us something about ourselves!
Good luck, NM. I think you're doing great! It ain't easy...
Excellent, Mrs. A.
Absolutely excellent.
Great perspective.
"Tabula rasa," for sure.
Peace,
You know, sometimes I have to be a little negative and say that
being a single mom to a baby/toddler is lonely and ROUGH!
Lonely because:
1)my other friends are married or with significant others
2)S' nap times interfere with scheduling playgroups
3)I don't have the most reliable family in the world--
Rough because:
1)I have to make decisions by myself--can't exactly call up stbxh you know? And I don't know if I am supposed to? How does one raise a BABY with an exH?! And I HATE that he is raising him with his OW girlfriend! Grrrrr!!!
BUT. I don't like to vent on here about it too much because I feel very guilty for complaining when many others have way worse...waaaaaaay worse situations than I do.
Still, it is not rosy rainbows and fun fun and wonderful. It is hard.
Not trying to have a pity party, just saying.
On another note, it has been amusing to observe stbxh as he thinks I am dating! Earlier this week he said something to me about whether he should bring S back to the house or to daycare the next morning. I grabbed S' arm and kissed him and said "NO! Bring him home!" but then realized why he was asking! So I said
"I might consider that sometime, but you will be doing that soon enough when I return to work."
Then, Thursday when he came to pick S up, I was just anxious for him to just go. I asked him if he had to use the bathroom (his prostate) and he said no, he could hold it, then added "do you have to get ready?" I just decided to go with it and said "yes."
Then I slept past my alarm on Friday a.m. (I usually set it for 6 so that I can be awake when he drops S off at 6:30). I came running downstairs when the doorbell rang and he said
"S, mommy needs to go back to sleep...you go back to sleep, too!"
The best thing, though, will be when he is alone with S one day.
He has NO CLUE what it's like. ZERO and he doesn' get it.
hee hee...Gabbysmom, thanks for passing that secret along from your guy friends: CONFIDENCE is hot! Great...the one thing I can only fake for so long, lol! That is why I must work on getting my B.I.T.C.H. on!
something zoobrew challenged me to do was to be firm on my opinions and beliefs...name them, own them, don't worry about offending someone (well come on, it is thye way in which you do it).
And my best friend C told me that I do this weird little laugh thing a lot! OMG I am acting like my g-ma! She will say
"Yeah, that pizza was great! heh heh heh"
"Oh, well I don't care for mushrooms...heh heh heh"
"No, I have never ridden a motorcycle. heh heh heh"
ok am getting ready to go to a baby shower. I will avoid junk food but I WILL EAT CAKE! heh heh heh!
nm,
You know, sometimes I have to be a little negative realistic and say that being a single mom to a baby/toddler is lonely and ROUGH!
I wouldn't know, but I figure that deserves a "damned straight" in my book.
BUT. I don't like to vent on here about it too much because I feel very guilty for complaining when many others have way worse...waaaaaaay worse situations than I do.
Oh, no, no, no, nm. Vent away. Let it all hang out. That's what it's here for. That's what
we're here for. That's what helps us keep our sanity, and keeps the rest of the community informed as to how we are and what we need.
An argument could certainly be made that some situations are worse than others, but in my book, despair, pain, loneliness, regret, fear and uncertainty are universal and common, here.
Pain is pain.
And damned straight it's hard. I can't even
comprehend how hard it must be for you. Another reason for you to post and vent and journal and rant: so that I - and others -can learn and try to support you.
And nothing wrong with having the occasional, short pity-party. I figure a pity-party is us saying to ourselves, "I know it all sucks, right now. And here's exactly
why it sucks. There, there. Don't you worry," at those times when we need to hear
just that but at that particular moment no one is telling us. So we tell ourselves, comfort ourselves.
Vent, Mama Bear, vent.
Peace,
NM - I hear you about being a single mom. I thought it would get better with age, but it hasn't. S is sooooooooooooo clingy now when he sees or talks to H so it is definitely hard, and I am going to empathize with you because I completely understand where you are coming from. It is so hard being a single mom, especially being that we didn't choose this path for ourselves, but you are doing a great job!
If you have questions post them here. There are plenty of single moms around who will help give advice and maybe you can get some differing opinions so you can pick what is best for you.
Thank you, Gardener, Awest and GM! I am interested in learning of any good books or info, etc. about tips for raising kids as a single mom WITH a dad in the picture. Pass it along...
OK just got back from a baby shower that included a couple of teachers that I will be working with next year. I casually mentioned that I was going through a divorce (it came up naturally somehow) and then QUICKLY changed the subject.
Well, I KNOW people are curious and it makes them scared in a way. One woman, who I met a couple of years ago at the mom of honor's bachelorette party, actually had the nerve to ask me "was it your decision or no? " "so what happened? were there just ongoing issues?" Maybe I am sensitive/defensive so please let me know if this the case (honestly! TELL ME!) but I don't even know this woman and she is prying? I just said "no it wasn't my decision, but it takes 2 people to want to stay married. We have been separated for a little while now. I am at least grateful that he is a good dad to our son and we are being civil" then we got distracted.
The teacher I work in the same hall with just said "I am so sorry!"
Gee, I have butterflies about telling everyone! I guess I will do it one at a time? I already informed 12 people on the BUNCO team...but I know EVERYBODY it seems...I wish I could equate this to something else to figure out how to prepare for it!
I learned this from Ann Landers years ago. When someone asks you a question that is too personal, ask them a question back.
Like: "Why would you ask me that?" with a bright smile and looking slightly confused.
Or: "Why? Are you going through a divorce too?" with a concerned look.
What ever their answer, you have the opportunity to move away from them without having to answer.
Have it canned and ready to go!
Ok, thank you WN and GM! I will follow a combination.
Sometimes if they say "Oh, what happened?" I can ask
"Oh, well have you gone through something like this before?"
and they will say "no, thank God!"
then I can say "yeah,it's really hard." and change the subject or walk away.
Today someone did ask me if I wanted more kids, and that is how I did explain that I was going through a divorce. I said
"well, I DID but now I am not sure because I am going through a divorce."
So I do know this: it might be hard for the first week, but I will have a canned q or response and then my positive attitude will distract them from my sitch, right???
(but come on--- it is rude for a total stranger to ask!! I think, though, that I have been guilty of asking q's when at a party...now I will be better!)
damn it--
I think I get why most of us on here are still pining a little for our spouses or go up and down...
we do not have a boyfriend/girlfriend.
NOT THAT it means that is the answer...I know we need to heal and deal, work on ourselves before getting involved (why again? I get confused...to not get broken hearted??
For me, I have a panic attick thinking of that level of involvement/work/time commitment to another person right now! No boyfriend please! ( Although I think I
will probably not post as much once I go back to work.
And those that are reconciled don't post much....wait, there are a few and I wonder "why are they spending so much time on here instead of being with their spouses?"
NOT in the Surviving the Big D forum, obviously!
but anyway just saying.
awesome poem posted by Flowmom on FB (but written by someone else)about loneliness being a good thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7X7sZzSXYsloneliness is freedom...easy and weightless...healing if you let it...
GM, it's awesome that you're comfortable being forthcoming with your coworkers. I'm not (right now), and my opinion of what to say to them changes daily. Here's my latest:
Coworker: Oh, (implied: you're not wearing your wedding ring and the photos of Mr. A are all down), how's Mr. A?
Me: We split. So what can I do for you?
HAHAHA! I'm cracking up writing that because I know I will NEVER have the guts to say it!! But it sure is fun to think about it!!!
P.S. That might not sound so outrageous to everyone, but to me it would be HUGE!
nm,
damn it--
I think I get why most of us on here are still pining a little for our spouses or go up and down...we do not have a boyfriend/girlfriend.
In my case, I disagree. I don't want a girlfriend/relationship. FWB might be different
But I am nowhere near relationship ready. Not by a long shot.
I still pine and go up and down because my life was yanked out from under me, my world turned upside down and my future stolen. Without explanation.
I pine and go up and down because I still am on the Mourn/Grieve-Detach-Fine-Mourn/Grieve roller coaster, even when I think I've long since gotten off of it.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU 
Peace,
yeah...I don't have to post every thought I have...strike that comment about boyfriend/girlfriend.
What Gardener said.
sheesh, I am silly!
haha, Mrs. A! Oh wait...are you Ms. A now? Like I am Ms. Newmama instead of Mrs.?
well for me, it would be
CW: I am sorry to hear that. What happened?
me: He left me. So, are you ready for Back to School Night?
hahahahahaha! I mean heh heh heh!
I agree with WhatNow: a bluntly polite, "why would you ask such a personal question?" is a legitimate response.
And screw what they think about it.
A question like that in my book is akin to someone just coming right out and saying, "put me in my place, wouldja?"
Ggrrr!
So tonight I obviously am not doing something great...but I did go for a night walk like I used to do pre-stbxh! I live in a safe neighborhood ...I check the police reports in the paper and the incidents in my area revolve around traffic tickets or vandalism by teenagers. Not to mention that I have left my garage open on accident a few times ALL DAY and NOTHING was stolen. Phew!
Anyway, it is a lovely warm summer evening and I walked for an hour, listening to my ipod to Alanis Morrisette (NOT that song'You Oughta Know') and, hee hee, Belinda Carlisle! That's right! I love "I get Weak," "Mad About You," "Leave a Light On" "Should I Let You In" and "Summer Rain."
I also listened to The Cranberries and had an instant flashback to college dorm days...
Am embracing being alone, I guess. Although I am on here! I have a book that I could read so I might try. It's just that it makes me fall asleep!
Oh and today, stbxh came to pick up S (after his 2nd custody class) and he went to the kitchen (which was a disaster) to get a drink of water. My handle to the oven fell off and I was procrastinating on figuring out how to fix it. He saw it and immediately went to the garage to get a screwdriver to fix it. I also had a bag of stuff to take to the recycle bin and he took it. Well anyway, I still made it clear with my body language and demeanor that I wanted him to leave. So opposite of where I was a couple of months ago!
While this is a very sad statement to have to make I often think people think it's okay to ask about divorce because it's such a normal and accepted part of our society.
I agree 110% it's terribly rude and invasive for somebody you don't know well to ask about particulars (who left who and the other examples you shared) but honestly, some people really just don't get it. When something is viewed as "ok and acceptable" people tend to think it's perfectly fine to talk about it with strangers.
I certainly am not siding with the people ask such personal questions but I tend to wonder if they really don't take them as terribly rude!
You wouldn't feel odd if you were at the market and somebody said "nice weather we are having today?".. sadly, divorce is just as common as the weather. It happens each day and to the outsider it's hardly an UNcommon occurrence.
When somebody starts asking me questions that I find too invasive or personal (RE: my divorce) I simply thank them for their concern and let them know it's a highly personal matter and one I do not discuss.
Oh, and cake is NOT junk food
IMO it's just food. One that should be consumed (heavily) each day!
Oh, and cake is NOT junk food
IMO it's just food. One that should be consumed (heavily) each day!
Except in our Hs' cases. They are not allowed to have cake and eat it, too.
Damn right, Mystik! If I could reach through the screen and hug you right now I would! This is the first time I have heard you "be tough"! I LIKE IT!
No, no cake for the H's! Oh HELL no! We can have cake though (be it the sugary delicious kind or the kind that is 6 feet tall that walks and talks, either way, ENLOY)
Shortest youtube clip ever, Gardener - but definitely to the point!
Mrs. A.,
Good one, ain't it?
But I can't take the credit. Someone used it a while back on either Surviving or Newcomers and I laaaughed....
Just passin' it along.
Peace,
It's been really fun catching up on your thread, NM. I've been missing segments of Cupcake Wars because I was so interested in the back-and-forth!
I agree with you on a number of things, but too many to go back and be specific about.
Keep it comin'!
Newmama got her groove back....I got my cake last night!!! No 2x4s- I will just throw them back at you (lol!).
OK zoobrew called me around 5 p.m. I was very wary...I mean I loved the fact that he called and I was really surprised to hear from him (so soon!). So I was talking to him but trying to figure out his intention for calling. He started off saying that he was thinking of our conversation the other night and wanted to clarify something he said about relationships (about how he doesn't want someone to "take care" of him...he meant he didn't want to be mothered; he wanted a partner)
So we are talking for about 45 minutes and he asks me my plans for the week. Long story short, he invites me over for a movie "just to hang out."
His house was gooooorgeous! Wow! And we were both so relaxed and comfortable, chatting away, teasing each other, and I asked him at the start of the movie, "The Crazies," if it bugged him if people talked during the movie. (because I talk a little here and there! hee hee) Well turns out HE was talking a lot! It was really fun.
We had wine, I got to "cuddle" with him, I waited forever for him to kiss me but I think I still was the one who made the move, damn it!
He put his arm around me and was rubbing my arm. We watched the whole movie...well 90% of it...before I just turned and looked at him and he kissed me. He loved my perfume (Ralph Lauren "Cool"--I always get compliments on it. Stbxh found it for me and I decided to wear it until I find a new one!)BUT THEN he asks "do you want to go upstairs?" Now I told him earlier that inviting someone over to watch a movie is kind of code for asking them to sleep with them. (I don't know if this is what others think but my friends and I always have!)
He said "really? I swear I was just asking if you want to hang out! I think you are really fun to talk to! This was spur of the moment....although I know you have been without since November 2008" (lol! He remembered)
So I will spare you the details but I thought that I would be like a pouncing tiger and instead I wanted to "take it all in!" And he did say that would like to see me again and I agreed but we didn't say when. I also am not dumb, folks, he could get weirded out again like after the last kayak date.
What sucks is that I accidentally left my ring and bracelets over there!! So I do really need the ring. It is important to me. Just wasn't thinking straight, I guess!
Wait, I think you missed a paragraph somewhere in there...I lost you between "...without since November 2008" and "So I will spare you the details"
Well NM, I'm REALLY happy for you just as long as you know what you're doing which sounds like you do. Oh and usually you're supposed to leave other thing(s) not the ring and bracelets! - tip for next time
Now I told him earlier that inviting someone over to watch a movie is kind of code for asking them to sleep with them.
I didn't know this but I'm glad I didn't go see 'a movie' when G4 invited me.
Hey! (gently shouting) I did NOT intentionally leave the jewelry! I was rushing to get out there...
OK he better be a gentleman and text or call me today.
I must be dumber than a box or rocks because until this site I never knew watching a movie was code for THAT! This is good information to know!
NM - if he doesn't call hate the player, not the game!
look, I don't know for sure if it is universal, but my friends and I (seriously) have all had the experience of when you finally go to someone's house and watch a movie with them...one thing leads to another...
Of course we are a bunch of hussies(my fellow married mothers)
but that even happened to a guy friend of mine this very weekend! He invited the woman he is dating to come over and watch a movie and bada bing bada boom!
So the other thing is that zoobrew, being the best guy for a fling, I tell you, sent me a text saying good morning...and that I left some things over there! So I have replied (but was also getting S ready) and said a few things but one was just "yeah..I realized it this morning when I went to put my ring on!"
Now he is supposed to say "well guess you better come get it" or something like that, haha!
NO!!!!!!!!!!!
Tell him to bring them to you. Along with a present that is edible and delicious!
Maybe I better order NetFlix!!!
GOOD IDEA, CG! I think if he does say anything about getting my things I will tell him that he'll have to drop them off!
My BFF said "Newmama, I admire you! You are doing a fantastic job of letting this man pursue you...no pressure, no neediness..."
but then she also thinks he is a good catch. I said that he is, but due to timing in my life and his, it is not something that I am considering so don't bug me about it.
Did he ever tell you if anything more happened with his exGF?
I wouldn't tell him he has to drop them off - see if he offers!
Now I am curious because I think somebody on this thread said you were supposed to leave something there... that went over my head. What are you SUPPOSED to leave there?
God - if you ever see a post from me titled "911, CityGirl is hiding in the closet waiting for feedback" *somebody* answer ASAP. Because it will be on a date (you know, watching a movie) having NO idea what to do next. I will be looking at my pepper spray instructions wondering what I am supposed to be leaving behind wondering if I am supposed to be WATCHING a movie or just 'watching' a movie! LOL!
Geez NM! What in the heck happened while I was working my rear off this weekend??? Is it possible to be happy for you, wanting to caution you and be a little envious all at the same time? Cause that is how I feel!
CG- you are correct- I won't mention my things at all...let him bring it up! I don't remember hearing it is good to leave stuff. I know that it can be a manipulative ploy some people use to ensure seeing the person again but I think that is waaay too much game playing (unless we are talkign DBing with a spouse, I guess).
CW- yes, being cautious is wise...I am thinking of it like this:
wow, that was fun (REALLY FUN) seeing zoobrew and if I never see him again, I am still grateful for the experience! Also I tell myself "this rendezvous/fling/tryst etc. will come to an end soon!" Hopefully that will help me to prepare for when it is over!
Also, I have to say that today I had a weird burst of energy and was able to clean like I haven't in months! Gee, wonder where that came from?
Hmm...well I do know in college if a guy asked you to come watch a movie it at least meant a good makeout session...did that a time or three but not actual sex.
I need to remember that if any guy asks me that any time soon!
No- not my WEDDING ring! I bought another ring to wear on y right hand- my "single woman/new life" ring!
And I forgot to say, CG, that at the time I saw zoobrew, he hadn't talked to his exG yet.
You're supposed to leave the P_ _ _ _ _ _ _ (the unmentionables LOL) behind! Or at least that's what they show in the movies.
Has never happened to me but if it did I'm totally putting them up on ebay the next morning! hey money's tight these days
haha Romeo!
Well S and I are meeting a friend and her kids to go to an amusement park. I realize he won't be able to go on the rides but hopefully my friend will watch him for a second while I get to go on some rides, lol!
I might go on the rollercoaster...it isn't a big one...just trying to overcome some fears.
But for who? Me or some guy? I don't know. Just want to be fun and want to be able to do that stuff with S. I guess by the time he is old enough to do it, I could be with someone else and HE could take S, lol!
Well, I DO want another man in my life, and I WILL have another man so I am comfortable planning the future with that thought in mind.
I walked into the amusement park and immediately had flashbacks of when I was 10, riding the spider, and hating it! I decided then and there that there is plenty to do in life besides go on amusement park rides (although I think I could do the spider again when S is older). So I decided to not pressure myself to overcome that fear. And then I felt relief! Even with a boyfriend, oh well...how often do you go on rollercoasters (like the REAL ones,lol!) when you are with someone?
No, haven't heard from him since the text yesterday but am not concerned in the least. Date by date or not at all- am proud of myself for having this mindset. And frankly, I DID think it would be respectful to hear from him the morning after and he contacted me so now I feel fine. After all, he is meeting with his exgirlfriend this week so I might not "see" him again- I do know I will get my ring back, though! I wish I didnt leave it but oh well- it was accidental...
am looking forward to an evening where I will work out, take a bath, put away laundry...just take it easy.
Wow. I missed alot today, NM. I'm really impressed how you handled "the movie". I don't know if I mentioned it before but the marriage I'm DBing is #2. When my first marriage ended(no DBing, multiple A's and abuse), I was so unnerved by going out again that I totally freaked out the first time my bf and I "saw a movie". Poor guy, he was so sweet but I couldn't see him again.
Great attitude! Have fun.
Two quick things:
1) I got a right-hand ring too! LOVE it and wore it to my final divorce hearing - BEEEEAAATTCH!
(Self-reflection - I may never be mature....)
2) The movie at home thing was how Mr. A first kissed me, but we didn't go all the way that night. I love staying in and watching a movie - as long as it's with a hot guy who is romancing the heck out of me!!!!!!
ladies--you are terrific!
OK just finished working out for an HOUR! (boo yah or whatever they say!) and am going to pour myself a glass of wine while soaking in the tub. I think I will listen to John Mayer!
(Calgon, take me away!)
But while I was working out, I watched "It's Complicated" for a second time. WOW, the perspective is so different from watching it back in January or whenever. If I wasn't too embarassed, I would search through my threads to see what my take was on it the first time.
So this time, all the BS that Jake (Alec Baldwin's character) is telling Jane (Meryl Streep) is sooo blatantly obvious! But there are a few moments that stand out like how they can reminisce (sp) about stuff, how they still "know" each other's habits, and how she said to her shrink "I just need someone to TELL ME EXACTLY what to do!" when trying to figure out if she should continue her affair with her exH. Man, can't we relate to that one?(being TOLD what to do in gray sitches) I know I wanted that "post" stbxh telling me he was uncertain about D-ing, and man, do I have an awesome shrink as well!
oh and am halfway through it....still more to watch. Steve Martin's character admits 2.5 years post divorce he still is recovering. Damn, I will NOT be ruminating and analyzing and pining for stbxh in 2012! Heck no!
Nothing really to add, but I'm still reading and following along. I got myself a ring, too, but I wear it on my left hand. Now I don't feel so naked.
Wow, I wonder how many of us women bought rings? Interesting!
It was my friend's idea, actually, not mine!
Gabbysmom, I WILL ALWAYS feel sick when I think of stbxh and OW! Like I told him over a year ago, I will never accept it, I KNOW it will end, and when he dumps her and finds the next girlfriend, I will accept her with open arms! (I think I will be able to since she wasn't the selfish screwed up witch who was a willing participant in ruining 3 people's lives....and her own).
Well the bath was lovely! Am so relaxed and am watching Hell's Kitchen instead of putting away my laundry. Eh, who cares if it waits another day, you know? BUT WHAT SUCKS is that I recorded Hell's Kitchen (the season finale) and when I turned on the TV it was showing who won the whole thing! So I found out the winner accidentally before watching the show!
I love Hell's Kitchen!
I am also with you about the OW. Only with H she is also married so she not only ruined my life, S's life (which is the one I care about the most), but also her H as well. Stupid women!
I have not gotten a ring yet, but I am planning on getting one once I see how much the D is going to cost. I am planning on getting a ring to symbolize my commitment to S by getting our birth stones (sapphire and diamond).
Have a great day today!
Awest, your idea for a ring is terrific! I need to look up the birthstone for July (isn't it terrible that I don't know?).
My ring is from JCPenney; got it on sale for $68, originally $300 something. It reminds me of a "crown!" I have a picture of it that I should post on FB, lol. Dang, I miss it actually. But I know I will get it back!
You know, it really is a gooood thing that I have time in between seeing zoobrew because it helps me to keep my mindset and not to get attached!
GM, You are right. I have summers off, being a teacher, so I see S during the day every day although I have been taking him to daycare MWF for 4 hours to get him used to it. Also, I will be using that time to set up in my classroom, like today.
and I have been a SAHM this last year. Here is the current schedule for stbxh:
Mon: 5-8
Tues:5 p.m. overnight to Wed 6:30 a.m.
Thurs:5 p.m. overnight to Fri 6:30 a.m
Sat: 1 p.m. to Sun 1 p.m.
When I return to work in a couple of weeks, it will be:
Tues overnight 5 p.m. to Wed 6 a.m. (he might drop him off at daycare; I don't know yet)
Thurs: 5-8
Sat: 2 p.m. to Sun 1 p.m.
We will need to figure out the weekend thing a little more, I think. But luckily, stbxh is flexible and so am I.
July's birthstone is a ruby.
Thank you, Awest!
Just sharing that I was talking with my friend C the other day and was feeling some major guilt over being a "bad wife." This is random- why was I thinking about that? I thought I was over it!
Well, she at first tried to say "no, no- that's not bad!" but could tell that I wasn't looking for someone to reassure me! I was speaking the TRUTH and FACT if you know what I mean! So she said that we all have made mistakes, and she used to be a bad wife but improved but still has bad wife characteristics and some good wife characteristics, too. She pointed out that although she and her H (and my other friends) all liked stbxh, they noticed that he seemed to be "controlling."
This surprised me- controlling? He didn't boss me around or tell me not to go out with my friends or demand I come home from work at a decent hour or put me on an allowance, etc.!
She explained that it seemed like he took care of everything, and taking care might seem nice or nurturing, but it is also controlling. Guess what? She was right! How did that happen?
My H was the same way. I was controlling because I took care of everything (financially because if H did it everything would be late. Every credit card bill and many of his college loan bills he has admitted to being late on although he has the money). However, we never did anything because H would never decide on what to do or where to go and if we went anywhere I was always on edge about if he is having fun or not because I would get an ear full later, etc. Ultimately we never did anythign at all. We sat at home with me wanting to go out, but H wouldn't decide where and if I did then he said I was controlling him.
It is crazy how this does creep in on you.
I believe in positive thinking! It is awesome and helps me through so much. So I will plan my future with someone in it--but the other stuff you said is right on! 20/20 is hindsight and maybe this will be an opportunity for me to really learn how to communicate needs and wants, etc. in my next relationship.
But yeah- "good wife and bad wife"--it's all subjective. I guess we should have defined what we needed. Ah well..."cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it!" right, Romeo?
Poor S is sick with a 102 fever and cold. Daycare called me to pick him up. I was eating lunch with my old 1st grade team so I had to leave early!
Well prior to that, I saw my classroom and I love how it looks...but have a lot of work to do. I saw a gossipy teacher and she asked how I was doing. She said "so what happened?" and before I could stop myself I blurted out "he left me." damn!
Then she asked "was there someone else?" I avoided that question and just said "it's been really hard but I am just plugging along, getting through it, focusing straight ahead..." blah blah blah....
EVERYONE said "wow, you are so skinny!" it made me feel good, I admit, and what's funny is that I am NOT, but compared to last time they saw me, I guess so! I made a joke to someone and said "it's called the divorce diet!"
So anyway, now due to my impulsivity, the gossipy teacher will get to go around telling people that I am getting a divorce because he left me. Crap- luckily this will be old news very soon!!! Why do I have to be friends with so many people in the school? argh!
I guess what I wonder is why it would not be positive to plan your future without a man? I understand the best case scenario would be have a life partner (if that is what you desire I mean) but what if that doesn't happen despite your plan?
I wonder that myself and actually feel (felt?) way safer planning my future alone (alone = not married again).
Then again, you never know who will come along!
NM, I hope S feels better- that's the thing about the daycares the first couple of years are tough but then they build up a good resistance to the common colds etc. Take care of S.
CG, I agree- it's good to have the confidence that you'll be OK alone. In fact, I think it's important to get to that place before you think about being with someone else. However, it makes life so much more fun when you have someone to share in the good times and bad
Exactly, they say things happen when you least expect them
I think you guys and I will just have to agree to disagree!
Do I know that I could live alone as an old maid school marm and be a single mother? Of course I could! BUT I DON'T WANT TO SO I WILL NOT!
I will keep arguing with you guys (affectionately of course) but it is NOT human nature to be solo. Nope, we do need affection (it is proven by research) and we need companionship. I don't need a husband to make me feel good about myself and I don't need a husband/boyfriend to feel "complete," but for MY life, I plan on having a lover-companion-boyfriend-husband in the future, for my values and dreams in life, and that is what will happen. (future could mean 3-10 years, folks!)
GM you might be misunderstanding me- I am not "waiting" or "saving" stuff for when I am with someone! No, if I want to go to Greece with S or my friends, I will still plan on going, kwim? I think it is a problem when people pass up plans or opportunities to WAIT or "just in case" they get married.
I met stbxh 3 weeks prior to moving in with a roommate in order to save money to buy my own house. My future roommate said "I don't think you will be reliable because you might marry this guy" and I laughed at her and said "wth? I have only known him for a couple of weeks!"
As for being codependent, I don't know! Unless it applies to anyone who wants to stay married when their spouse leaves or cheats?
Do I know that I could live alone as an old maid school marm and be a single mother? Of course I could! BUT I DON'T WANT TO SO I WILL NOT!
You're only 34
That's so cute
Die alone
LOL
You have plenty of time..., and if you rush into another relationship, I suppose you have time for another divorce even
Your path: you get to chose it.
NM I completely agree with you and believe you have the right attitude. It is not that you are looking for the perfect H right now, but you are dreaming (as all girls do) about the right guy and there is nothing wrong with that. You have your life and live you life well by yourself. To me it doesn't seem like you need a guy, which is what codependence is, it is that you want a guy to share with. Codependence is when there is a person who can't live without another person in his or her life. You are by no means codependent. If you were, you would have been dating or trying to find someone to date when H left a while ago.
I guess I am in the same boat as you. H left 16 months ago and by the time the D is final is will be 18 months. I say by next spring/summer if I find someone I want to go out on a date with, it would not be because I am codependent. I am going after I have already changed a lot (same as you, just look at the title of this thread) and am ready to meet some new guys. I am saying it will be my next H or that I am looking for a new H right away, no, but I will then have been alone for almost 2 years.
I think you are perfectly fine. The people to worry about are those who are looking for a R when they are still hooked on their spouse or who are trying to DB while looking for the next potential mate...that is codependence, but meeting some new guys. Nothing at all is the problem just be careful and know yourself.
Hope S feels better soon!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You got it, Awest! 100%. Wow, it feels good to be understood!
Hey NM!
How is S? Hope he is doing better this evening! I still hate it when my "babies" are sick!
I think we all are in agreement we disagree
"All girls" do NOT dream about finding a guy!
I have dated a bit. It was h-o-r-r-i-b-l-e. And I was the horrible one because the man I went on dates with was actually pretty great. I have never felt so trapped and exposed in my life. I actually contemplated feigning a heart attack to get out of the restaurant but figured that would not be a plausible option as he was a doctor. The bathroom had no windows (I looked) and I silently prayed *somebody* would call me and tell me my house was on fire (not all of it but enough to have to run home!).
On paper he was great - very nice, smart, funny, good looking and blah blah blah. I don't think am the dating kind. I think I am more of the lets hang out as friends and see what happens kind of girl (lady, female, woman... not sure what we all agreed to use as to not creep anybody out). I like men, am not anti men but the idea of going out with somebody just to out with them makes me want to hide under my bed.
My mom was alone for 13 years before she remarried and she loved every second of it. She did things she never thought she would be able to do. She only met my stepdad because he was her specialist after her eye surgery (IOW very unplanned and just so happened).
I don't know what the future holds, none of us do. I just can't imagine thinking about or planning on or hoping for a future with a person that is just an illusion. But really, that is what is right for me and what I feel and believe.
We all have our "lists" of what we would like to find in a future partner but IMO that is much different than planning on having a partner. Sometimes people just come along and it's a delightful surprise that enhances an otherwise happy life.
S' fever is fluctuating between 100 and 102. He crashed at 5:30 (2.5 hours earlier than normal) and kind of whimpers every now and then as he tosses and turns back to sleep
I will take him in tomorrow if he still is running a fever above 100.
But I am restless...I mean I can't relax because I am aware that S is sick! I can't focus or get engrossed with a task...talking on the phone seems ok.
Usually I am occupied with S until 8 p.m. so it is weird that I am "alone" yet not alone since he is upstairs.
GM, I understand what you are saying; I get it crystal clear!
On a different subject, it is strange how familiar being single is to me...I guess it is because I was not in long term relationships prior to stbxh, whom I met at 28. Therefore, I have now been single for 29 of my 34 years...85% of my life! weird.
Oh and today I threw away the following books:
DR and DBing (SORRY I LOVED THEM BUT DO NOT WANT THE BAD ENERGY!)
His Needs, Her Needs: How to Affair Proof Your Marriage
Surviving an Affair
Not Just Friends
7 Principles for Making Marriages Work
and one other that I am forgetting
I replaced them with:
Getting the Love You Want
Getting Past the Breakup
How to Have a Fling to Detach from Your Ex*
JUST KIDDING! hahaha!
GM and CG, do you remember that movie, "Waiting to Exhale?" I bet you could relate to what the women have learned for themselves by the end of the movie!
I think what you pointed out may have quite a bit to do with our difference in thinking. You were only married for a short time. I was with my H for 13 years and almost 11 of those years were marriage.... we met when we were both 23. I am 35 now. So the majority of my adult life was in a very, very serious and what I thought was a very vested R. You have been single for the majority of your life so it makes more sense when you spell it out that way.
I am actually fascinated by the way you just decide you don't want to be alone and you do something about it! Dating to me seems so manufactured and I don't have any desire to date just to date. Now I would date because I liked the person but I am not sure I would date to find somebody I liked.
I was a single guy with very little dating and no romance for 38 years. And I would not want a "do over" so as to be attached romantically during that time. My solitary time was very precious for me. It allowed me to gain life experiences and personal growth on my own schedule.
I do understand your desire to be with someone though. I look forward to it also. On paper, and in the text of these posts, it sounds good, but in reality, it is just some icing on the delicious cake of life. What really matters is reaching a self actualization. Being comfortable with being the captain of your own soul.
Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
I love reading all this stuff, y'all.
I never admitted I didn't know what codependency meant. "Codependency or codependence is a tendency to behave in overly passive or excessively caretaking ways that negatively impact one's relationships and quality of life. It also often involves putting one's needs at a lower priority than others while being excessively preoccupied with the needs of others. " That's wikipedia!
Hmmm....
Anyway, sorry that S is sick, NM. And I'm really glad to hear you're in the whirl of school again. How was putting S in daycare? you can respond in my thread if you want (don't want to hijak) but that's my whole life right now!
I have dated a bit. It was h-o-r-r-i-b-l-e. And I was the horrible one because the man I went on dates with was actually pretty great. I have never felt so trapped and exposed in my life. I actually contemplated feigning a heart attack to get out of the restaurant but figured that would not be a plausible option as he was a doctor. The bathroom had no windows (I looked) and I silently prayed *somebody* would call me and tell me my house was on fire (not all of it but enough to have to run home!).
LOL. I have been on such dates: when everything seems forced and awkward.
Your honesty is refreshing
We all have our "lists" of what we would like to find in a future partner but IMO that is much different than planning on having a partner. Sometimes people just come along and it's a delightful surprise that enhances an otherwise happy life.
My experience with "lists" is that they are crap in the end. Aside from the basics--character, confidence, and self-control--I don't think people need much more in a partner other than some real, genuine empathy and the ability to actively listen (and these things are a two-way street).
I made lists of things for years, and I started to feel like episodes of "Seinfeld".
Guess what? I wasn't co-dependent, stbxh was (according to that definition!) weird. Not that I can't admit if I was or not, just that I am wary of those labels because it seems so "rampant." Obviously there was something wrong with me, lol!
And wow, I never thought of dating as manufactured! Interesting! Seriously!
About lists--yeah. I have LEARNED and will confess something:
when I was looking to find someone to be with long term (i.e. my stbxh) I did look up risk factors for divorce. I saw what they were and decided to "screen" the men that I liked by these factors. Ok so for example, if you both are older than 25, both went to college, both have similar views on money, etc. then it supposedly decreases your risk for divorce.
My therapist told me a number of time to NOT THINK SO MUCH and to FEEL instead!
What I am saying is that this next section of my life, I will be basing my interest in men on some basic levels...not to make a list, but we would be lying if we said that nothing mattered in the future mate:
1)is he mentally healthy
2)is he good with kids
3)can we be content just talking and laughing together
4)are we attracted to each other
and then the honesty, trust, etc. will show up during the dating process I guess. If he can't keep a job or is lousy with money, that is a red flag (based on my previous dating experience) as is anger issues, socially withdrawn, and stupid ridiculous mind game crap like being passive aggressive, pouting, doing "tit for tat" etc.
I actually contemplated feigning a heart attack to get out of the restaurant but figured that would not be a plausible option as he was a doctor. The bathroom had no windows (I looked) and I silently prayed *somebody* would call me and tell me my house was on fire (not all of it but enough to have to run home!).
On paper he was great - very nice, smart, funny, good looking and blah blah blah.
LOL! I love that you did a recon of the bathroom, CG!
Some folks do want to date immediately following D and some don't. I guess it just depends on the person and there is nothing wrong if you don't want to.
I personally am with you. "Dating" sounds like a joke to me at this point in my life. I've never really dated anyone before H. Sure I had my first/puppy love, then sort of dated a guy but wasn't really into, more of a friend, and then stbx. I'm 29 and spend 7 years with him. Almost all of my 20s. That isn't as long as your M/R but to me it seems quite long.
So I think it's completely normal to come out of a R, especially a M and not WANT to go the R-route again. In the future, perhaps, but right now, your thinking makes total sense to me.
Newmama, I do't think your dating is bad at all. You seem to have great experiences thus far and it's obvious we're all at different places. If you are able to get into it, go for it. More power to you.
p.s. Timeheals, how come my honesty isn't refreshing? Is it because I have had different experiences with dating (mostly positive) than you?
Oh and S still is running a fever. I just checked with one of my friends from the playgroup and she said her daughter was battling the same symptoms for a few days...just the basic stuff (tylenol, TLC, fluids) seem to be the key.
He slept for 13 hours!!!
Dear God... I wish I could sleep for 13 hours!!!
p.s. Timeheals, how come my honesty isn't refreshing? Is it because I have had different experiences with dating (mostly positive) than you?
LOL. You crack me up. Feeling defensive?
You have to remember I was reading your posts when you quickly shifted from jumping through hoops trying to win back your STBXH to wanting to date.
Call me skeptical, but I don't trust that sudden shift. I am not judging you (I would be guilty of total hypocrisy if I pretended I had never done something similiar).
We ARE, however, on different paths
PS. Hope your son is feeling better soon.
Listen, you guys are all wrong. Let me tell you a story...what are we talking about again?
Oh right dating...well my view on it is we all have a different outlook on life. It doesn't make one right or the other wrong. I do believe that being with someone is a great experience when you do it for the right reasons and with the right person. Otherwise you wouldn't be on this board in the first place. They say the most selfish people in the world are the ones that commit a suicide and the second most selfish people are the ones that stay single (and the third are probably the WASs). Now don't get your P word in bunches it's just someone's opinion (probably some Phd psycho).
So while NM is feeling empowered and good about herself through this experience doesn't mean you have to feel the same way about it. Nor does it mean anyone's wrong or right. We're all different and that's what's so cool.
I always remember what my mom used to tell me: "Romeo, you're not weird, you're just special"
I always remember what my mom used to tell me: "Romeo, you're not weird, you're just special"
I think that Forrest Gump's mom said the same thing.
They say the most selfish people in the world are the ones that commit a suicide and the second most selfish people are the ones that stay single (
and the third are probably the WASs). Now don't get your P word in bunches it's just someone's opinion (probably some Phd psycho).
I always remember what my mom used to tell me: "Romeo, you're not weird, you're just special"
I always remember what my mom used to tell me: "Romeo, you're not weird, you're just special"
I think that Forrest Gump's mom said the same thing.
Haha you guys are cracking me up today!!!
I never took this discussion to be a "who is more right" type thing. It is what it is. People have different ideas of how to go about creating the life they want. One is not better or more acceptable but when it comes to rebuilding after a divorce certain "things" need to be considered.
Honestly, I am at a point in my life where I have ZERO interest in playing games. NONE. I will not do it. If I spend some time with a person and it doesn't feel like I want it to feel then I am not going to continue for "dating practice" or anything else. I certainly would not want somebody to do that to me!
When you reach a certain age and you start dating again there are many factors that were not present the first time around (divorce, ex spouses, children). The people you meet in your 20's tend to be like people in their 20's! Now though there are lots of other things that do need consideration. Most single people in their mid thirties have been in some sort of long term R if not a marriage which means they have gone through a divorce. It's just a total different set of rules in my opinion. I hesitate to use the word rules so perhaps I should say circumstances.
I simply feel for me that dating should be out of sheer desire to want to spend time with a person and not the IDEA of a person.
I will never be in a R again with somebody that cannot and will not communicate. It reduces my quality of life too much. That is really number one on my list.
Honestly, I am at a point in my life where I have ZERO interest in playing games.
Cougar:
An attractive woman in her 30's or 40's who is on the hunt once again. She may be found in the usual hunting grounds: nightclubs, bars, beaches, etc. She will not play the usual B.S.
games that women in their early twenties participate in. End state, she will be going for the kill.
I have no desire to go in for "the kill" nor am I on the hunt.
My point was I am not going to play the dating game just to play it. I have better things to do. I just feel like I would date somebody because I want to date THAT PERSON but not date just to "get out there".
I was just kidding with you CG. The cougar thing came from an email that an attractive 55 year old lady sent me this morning via plentyoffish.com...
You're kinda cute....you like cougars?
I never considered myself cougar bait at age 50.
LOL, Kerry! I was wondering how I projected "cougarness". God, that is an awful word!
Somebody sent you an e-mail titled THAT? WHAT?
Maybe it was the same lady that missed her plane you told us about y'day!
Kerry, didn't you read my posts about POF? The upside is that it is free! The downside is that it is a major total meat market hook up site...unless that is what people are interested in, of course!
OK I'm sick of the dating debate. Do you know that some people have adopted monkeys and are treating them as human babies? Wtf?
And that Naomi Campbell was on trial for allegedly accepting blood diamonds? Also that they want to build a mosque on Ground Zero but it is controversial even though that was the plan before 9/11. And that you can grow tomatoes upside down?
Actually, the subject of her email was "Well...."
My inner bad boy made me reply to her.
oh and am 3 pounds away from my pre-pregnancy weight. But time to firm up with some Windsor Pilates- I swear, 20 minutes for 10 days and you can totally see the difference!
am getting help tomorrow setting up my classroom.
I need work to distract me. Yippee! Teaching is soooo complicated with so many problems and challenges and we have to make 1000 decisions a day! I can't wait!!!
The one lady I am seeing tried the upside down tomato planter with no success.
I just signed up for POF on John210's suggestion. I have noticed quite a few batchitcrazy ones already.
Hmmm....hook ups? I've never actually tried that. Wouldn't that be a 180 for me?
I love Pilate's (yoga too!).
I think work will be a good thing for you. You really seem passionate about your job.
NM - What are the ages of your students?
I will never be in a R again with somebody that cannot and will not communicate. It reduces my quality of life too much. That is really number one on my list.
::highfive!::
I need to do a yoga class and soon. It's been too long.
Sol - look here:
http://yogamonth.org/freeyoga/Sept. is National Yoga Month and you can print out a voucher for one free week of classes.
nm Are you done with belly dancing? I signed DD16, DD19, and my self up to start next month. They think it'll be a hoot?
Setting up my classroom was my favorite part of the year! Otherwise, I really don't miss teaching!
Kerry, good way to blend upside down tomato plant with dating! haha!
I will be teaching 2nd grade this year!
S is better--stbxh gets him in about an hour...I know that even married SAHMs in my playgroup count down the minutes at the end of the day!
Tonight: finishing "It's Complicated" while working out, putting away the laundry that I started on Tuesday and watching Top Chef. Oh and I bought some Budweiser 55...wild night, lol!
And I admit that I am soooo curious to hear from zoobrew one way or the other! there, I said it!
I finally joined the local "Wellness Center" which - for my neck of the woods - is just a super-luxe gym. It's an indulgence that Mr. A and I always talked about and never did, and I'm definitely not taking enough advantage of it!
BUT - I *DID* discover the "warm" pool. It's not that warm, but -lucky for me cuz I can't swim - you don't actually swim in it! You just lift foam weights that weigh like 2 ounces in the air, only under water they weigh a ton! And then you float on your back for 20 minutes with a Noodle keeping you up.
It's awesome and could only possibly be better if they would offer a warm pool yoga class!
Mrs. A is full of pipe dreams tonight!
I bow in your general direction (whereever that may be). I would never survive teaching 2nd grade.
Have you considered the Budweiser Chelada? - a mix of Budweiser and Clamato cocktail makes this a Latin favorite.
Dont drink anything with clams or garlic if you have plans to kiss zoobrew.
http://www.amazon.com/Yoga-Life-Instructional-featuring-Johnsen/dp/B001DYFD0OJust bought that DVD this week, found it in my massage place and got it on a whim. Need to dig out my Winsor Pilates DVD now!
Jealous, I used to teach second grade...this year I get Preschool 1/2 day and ESL 1/2 day...
See, GM? I really shouldn't vent about needing a break from S! You rarely get a break that you so madly deserve!
Lol- I mean this affectionately, but do you know how many times I wish I had a drug to give a student or two who were OUT OF CONTROL???? I jokingly think "just slip some ritalin into his milk at lunch..." or "just 1/4 a valium might stop her from punching kids in the gut every day..." But of course I would never do that! I did toy with the idea of giving walnuts and avocados for snack time (omega 3s are supposed to be helpful for calming down hyper/aggressive kids!)
OK well I HAVE to ask about the sunglasses and pacifier!! what is up with that?
At the moment I have had 2 Bud 55s and guess what- to me, they taste like Budlight. Also, I really must be a lightweight now (hey that is good) because I feel buzzed! Good thing I don't need to go anywhere!
I put away the laundry- it happened too fast. There are other boring chores that I could do but I still have a clean house from my Monday "glow!" lol!
Am looking into school stuff while listening to Pandora. Am feeling restless and it is only 6:45! I have to budget myself financially so I can't really go anywhere tonight. But I will find something else to do. I do need to work out still but it is a warm summer evening so maybe I will walk outside instead of the elliptical.
FYI, Mrs. A, the foam weights are amazing- I had no idea that they would be heavy under water!
NM - Can you please hop over to my thread? I need some advice bigtime!!!!
you know how many times I wish I had a drug to give a student or two who were OUT OF CONTROL???? I jokingly think "just slip some ritalin into his milk at lunch..."
I think I'd keep that thought to yourself at the next Parent-Teacher conference.
You should try teaching lower level high school science students. I have plenty of stories.
Good job on the pregnancy weight. I had about 4 pounds to go with S at 18 months when H left so then I lost way too much. Everyone would ask me what I did to lose the weight. I said stress and I don't recommend it. Now I have gained back 10 lbs so I am at a healthy body weight (although I will lose some when I go back to work). I just have the infamous baby belly. If only I could find time to do pilates I know it would help a lot, but between S and work and church...not much time for me. Keep it up!
I also enjoy the rush of being a teacher. I couldn't imagine doing anything else. My best memory so far is watching a "dance off" happen in the cafeteria commons when I was on duty and 9 months pregnant (honestly about to blow). The principal came out and asked what was happening. I said a dance off and he said we should break it up, but man it was funny because it was a kid who couldn't dance at all against this awesome dancer. So much fun! Then there was the senior who would come to class every day late and have the best excuses like "the train stopped me in the hallway". Man I love my job!
Took the evening walk....lovely! Listened to Blink182, Aretha Franklin and All American Rejects (When you see my face, hope it gives you Hell!)
But stbxh returned S and his fever is back! So it means another day of TLC, (and being housebound).It is just a cold, luckily, and my instincts are not telling me it is worse. That is why I do not sound more concerned, fyi!
Oh and WN- I didn't realize you used to teach! What did you teach? And why did you stop? As for the belly dancing, I think I would like to take it again sometime, but do not want to use up every Tuesday night that I have to go to the class instead of being free to work, or go out with friends or just have down time.
Took the evening walk....lovely! Listened to Blink182, Aretha Franklin and All American Rejects (When you see my face, hope it gives you Hell!)
Ah, I love that All American Rejects song!
Have you ever tried Zumba? It's an awesome work out!
S actually got worse.. he must have an ear infection! I'm taking him to the dr. and stbxh is going, too. He will pick him up and take him back with him.
I wish I didn't have to see stbxh there...wait with him in the lobby and in the room...seriously! I don't like him right now!!!!!!!!!!!! I don;t want to make small talk! barf.
OK, turns out S is ok. His dr. said it was totally appropriate to bring him in today since it was the 3rd day of his fever and since he was being fussy. (He woke up from his morning nap all out of sorts and not like himself). She did want to get a chest x-ray to check for pneumonia but there were no signs of infection. It shocked me that she wanted to check! But at least stbxh took him back there, not me, and he said I wouldn't have liked it because they put him in this contraption... poor guy!
Now, I did decide that if I had to see stbxh, I might as well look good! So I wore some tight denim capris and a clingy shirt that showed curves in the right places. I styled my hair, wore perfume, put on nice make-up, wore hoop earrings.
Just talked to my male friend (who is going through a divorce)and he is dating someone but they moved too fast! In 3 weeks, they are calling each other "hon," they see each other almost every day, of course they had done the deed....but she is saying "I have strong feelings for you" and saying "I miss you!" and texting him constantly. He is feeling suffocated and also is worried about hurting her because she obviously is more crazy about him than he is about her. But he is also kind of leading her on, IMO, because he is saying "sure, we can hang out tomorrow" when he could be making other plans instead, you know? I recommended that to him....however, you can take a horse to water but you can't make him drink!
Hi newmama
Congratulations on how you're doing with your weight and fitness...I know that you've literally worked your ass off
.
And your fling...good for you. It sounds like it was really fun. Yes, it's not easy to manage one's expectations, but I agree with you...we weren't designed to be alone as adults. That is not some magical ideal to aspire to, to be complete within oneself.
I believe that a self-aware person can own her mistakes, and move forward with dating/relationships before being "perfectly" ready. It requires eyes open, responsible communication, recognizing problems as they arise, and being committed to tackling them. I am not a big believer in putting off life until one is sufficiently evolved. Most people experience personal evolution through relating to others, and you can't do that work in the isolated test tube of solitude.
Some may feel that I'm "not ready" to date. You know what? I wasn't ready for the years of enforced near-celibacy and lack of emotional connection that I experienced in my marriage.
Grade 2s are really cute. I hope that this will be a great year for you
FM, thank you! And I have zero reservations for you in regard to your decision to date, based only on what you have posted on your thread and here! You go, Flow!
I must say that for me, it has been more good than bad.
I am taking a break in between my work out to post some thoughts, though, about seeing zoobrew again (IF that possibility even exists since he may very well be reuniting with his exG at the beach or something, lol!)
Pros: fun, pleasure, interesting, entertainment, ego boost, validation, something to do
Cons: he is such a great catch that I could get attached, am not ready for that, do not like the idea of a relationship at this time, would be thinking about him in between seeing him, would feel scared, would feel worried, need to focus on balancing work and S, would know that I would need to end it.
As you can see, the cons outweigh the pros.
What does that mean? It means if he is reconciling with his exG, it is a good thing for me!
And yet I really really really enjoyed meeting him and it helped me waaaaaaay more than hurt!
It was just what I needed at this time in my life.
But I do need to get my damn ring back somehow!
Y'all are hilarious; it's been fun reading.
Good job on workin' on your fitness, NM; it's really inspiring.
Loved 'It's Complicated.'
Excited for both of us for school-- 2nd grade? little uns! (I've got those 8th graders, grr....)
Blink 182? Oh....
8th graders drive me bonkers....way more immature than 2nd graders (at school that is!) I enjoy that age group in like a camp setting or any non school setting. BLESS YOU, Gatsby, for taking them on. Especially through special ed. One year, I taught special ed for middle school and those kids ran me through the ringer! I felt for them in the sense that it has to be soooo hard to have a disability + special ed services+ social pressures to fit in at their age.
I finished "It's Complicated..." tonight and there were a couple of things that stood out.
First, Jake told her that he never stopped loving her....she said that she gave up on him before he gave up on her.
They both didn't regret their affair....I was disturbed more by it the first time I watched the movie, but this time it kind of felt "fair" that they had the A.
It was soooooo satisfying to see Agnes (Jake's OW wife) feel the pain and jealousy of watching Jake look at Jane with desire, hurt, and jealousy while she danced with Adam.
Oh but so sad to see the adult kids so happy to see their parents together for a brief evening. I do wonder if S will still have "reuniting" fantasies even though he never saw us "together."
NM, you won't let S have reuniting fantasies. Parents set that up when they say, "If only your father had done this," or, "I tried, but your mother had her mind made up."
You and I say those things HERE - you DON'T say them to DS!!!!!
And you won't. You are sooooo balanced because you work at it! And DS probably will never appreciate it or thank you for doing the work, but it most definitely will pay off! We only just ever hope that we can learn from our parents' mishaps and neuroses and that our children can learn from ours! But YOU are actually WORKING to make that happen.
(Biggest suck-up post on DB EVER - but I really mean it!!!!!!)
Oh, Agnes and Jake didn't regret their affair? I don't even remember that! Yeah, I can see that being somewhat disturbing.
I just liked that Jane (I'm getting these names from your post; I mean Meryl) had moved on and had such a great life and that her WH wanted her back!
Yeah, and 8th graders. I agree, totally challenging, but ANGELS in a one-on-one setting. They are so thirsty for attention and encouragement, and I give it in spades!
The kids -- unless there was abuse of some kind -- are always, always, always going to want to see the parents back together.
Whenever STBXW and I are in the same room D8 immediately calls for a family hug. It's just sooooo heartbreaking.
D11 was the first to give up hope. Even before I did because she's consistently been asking STBXW why this, why that, and she said STBXW has her mind made up.
That was sad as well. So I struggle with answering their questions honestly without painiting STBXW as a monster. It's so hard. You want them to know the truth, that you still want to be a family and you don't want them growing up thinking that if things get tough you just bail. You also don't want them feeling sorry for you either.
This is stuff kids shouldn't have to worry about at 11 and 8 and it's why so many kids from divorced families have problems later in life.
Hey NM
The part in that movie that made me sad was when the kids realized that their parents were NOT going to get back together and they were all in bed crying!
Hope your S is feeling better today!
Yikes, C2H...pretty dismal future for the kids, huh? I guess we don't need to be so honest and open about how we really feel in order to spare them. I don't know.
CW-I totally forgot to mention that heart breaking scene...it goes to show that even adult aged children have that reuniting fantasy.
Ok on a cheerier note, I made some peanut butter-chocolate oatmeal no bake cookies to take with me to the beach next week...well and to eat a few today! I had them and put the rest in the freezer until Thursday. Today feels like Sunday to me..weird.
I like to boil the milk mixture for 2 minutes instead of 1 so that the cookies actually taste like fudgy candy-cookies! Here is the recipe:
http://dinneranddessert.wordpress.com/2009/07/08/chocolate-peanut-butter-oatmeal-cookies/Now for tonight...I have a can of san marzano tomatoes that I might need to use. Hmmm...but need to go to the store and am staying home due to S being sick.
Cons: he is such a great catch that I could get attached, am not ready for that, do not like the idea of a relationship at this time, would be thinking about him in between seeing him, would feel scared, would feel worried, need to focus on balancing work and S, would know that I would need to end it.
Newmama, I'm not really commenting on the analysis about zoobrew specifically, but more about what you wrote above. I think that that is something we will both have to grapple with. Problem #1: YOU are a catch, and you will attract men who are a catch too. To be honest I am a bit surprised by the quality of the men that I have attracted so soon after opening the door to dating. I think I just need to go in with no expectations, and not create any. Yes, there is a risk of becoming attached. I don't know what to say about that except that I don't think it's that easy to define and enforce the boundaries of a male/female relationship...all you can hope for is that things are mutual
(((hugs)))
To be honest I am a bit surprised by the quality of the men that I have attracted so soon after opening the door to dating.
FM!! I am sure that I am speaking for everyone here when I say that it does not surprise us at all that men of high calibre (sp) want you!
As for me being a catch, well I don't know. But I think I might be for a few months and then they would get bored with me and toss me back out there! Just need to really try to somehow keep developing my opinions, individual identity, and doing interesting things when I go back to work and still be a good mom to S when I have him.
But you know what surprised me was that there were lots of "decent" men out there (at least online and in my meetup groups). I think I really thought they were either here on DB forum
or married....in other words, taken!
As for me being a catch, well I don't know. But I think I might be for a few months and then they would get bored with me and toss me back out there!
Why do you say that?
I'm sure you'd be a great catch for any guy.
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound "pitiful!" I was just reflecting on my past and why I was single or only in 6 month relationships...where I was the one who was dumped! (Ok, one time I did the dumping) And the 2 men that I loved both left me. So it is just something for me to be aware of and try to figure out.
Boy, I was watching Tyler Perry's movie "Why Did I Get Married?" last night. The ending, where both wives got their H's back, was very unrealistic! Now that I have followed people's lives on DB forum I have learned that reconciliation ISN'T as easy as the way it is often portrayed in the movies.
The wives met with their H's, admitted their "faults" in the marriage, told them they didn't want to lose them. The H's took them back on the spot. lol!
revelation: men (or women) that fall too fast are dangerous! Red flags....that is why they left me!
Just came back from watching "Eat, Pray, Love" and feel kind of deep and a little morose, I guess.
I admit that I didn't read the book, I didn't know much about the story line other than the main character is a WAW. So I kind of had a chip on my shoulder going in.
But it was really, really good. I think an alternate title could have been "Pursuing a Dream, Forgiving Yourself, and Daring to Love Again."
(kinda wordy, though- Eat, Pray, Love is much simpler!)
So I went alone, and waited in line outside the auditorium behind a group of ladies. I had my choice of seating but the theater soon filled up so I ended up in between a married couple in their 40s and a married couple in their 70s.
What was surprising is that the old couple were kind of bickering before the movie and the younger couple were all smiles. Then, during the movie, the old guy directly on my right was laughing and making comments to his old wife. The wife of the younger couple was crying at different parts (as was I) and I was surprised that her H didn't touch her arm or something, like stbxh used to do to me. I saw her reach her hand out to hold his and he held it for like 5 seconds, then dropped it to get his drink and never picked it up again.
Well, I was also not expecting not to relate much to the main character except for the usual cliche stuff like how she is discovering her true self post divorce (short marriage btw), and has a fling... but I felt wiser than her because she let herself start a relationship with the man.
I definitely got the travel bug after watching it!
Also, Julia Roberts TRULY did a terrific job acting! I tend to think of her as a character actress but she was amazing as Erin Brokevich so I knew she had "it" in her to truly act like a different person. The other thing was that because I could relate to many of the feelings and situations that the main character was going through, I could TELL if Julia was accurately portraying the scenarios.
I won't say much else about it in case I spoil anything, but I do recommend it highly for those of us here...even the men folk!
On a positive note, I went into my new classroom to do an inventory and just walk around. I let S crawl about and he loved it. MY CLASSROOM WAS AWESOME!!!!!!! I swear I felt the same high that I did last week after zoobrew!
Ok well, not exactly the same, but DAMN CLOSE!
And about that...argh! I am getting impatient but my gut still tells me NOT to call or text and that I will hear from him (just to talk if nothing else)
Hi Nm
Sounds like you are excited to get back to work!
The kids and I went and saw "Dinner for Schmucks" tonight...needed to see a comedy and had a few belly laughs! It was PG 13 but ok for kids my kids' age and some of the more adult jokes went right over their heads! There was a preview for "Eat, Pray, Love"...it does look good! Good for you for going to it alone! I have never done that!
Hey, I wish you lived closer to me! I have a brother that has never been married! He makes a good living...is my kids favorite Uncle, makes good money and has been very supportive of me even though he STRONGLY disapproves of what my H has done to us! I think you will do fine "out there" when you are ready!!!
Thanks, CW! I love comedies and was wondering about that movie, Dinner for Shmucks. The previews kind of reminded me of "Dumb and Dumber" in some ways!
Man, I sure am feeling extra lonely tonight and wish I could chat on the phone with my girlfriends...but they are busy with their husbands and kids! ah well, I won't be lonely forever. Gee, I don't have PMS so where are these mood swings coming from?
My daughter wants to see the vampire spoof movie. I am in no way going to see Eat, Pray, Love even though I love Julia Roberts. Not ready to see a divorced wife move on so easily.
I'm toying with saving all my posts here somewhere so perhaps I could write the post-divorce recovery from a male perspective.
I'm toying with saving all my posts here somewhere so perhaps I could write the post-divorce recovery from a male perspective.
Save mine too, to get the inane perspective!
C2H, DO IT!!!! Seriously, we see female divorce perspective a lot more! I really think you should do it...what would your title be?
Oh, and NO, she (Julia Roberts character) DOES NOT move on so easily. I had the same thought you did, believe me, but I decided to watch it in order to preview it because some teacher girlfriends of mine wanted to watch it for "girls night out" next week. Well I have told them nil about the real situation, and I was not about to sit there with them while blubbering or wanting to walk out or be all emotional. I think I would watch it again.
tell me your opinions: how long do I wait until I text zoobrew?
I want to get my ring back and I want to know what happened with his exgirlfriend. I guess the 2nd is none of my business, and I truly honestly don't have future expectations for anything with him.
I know I said I think he will still call me, but the reason I am wondering if I should initiate contact is that after our 2nd date, I was the one who initiated and he let me know what he was thinking/feeling. It makes me wonder if it would be a good thing for me to initiate again.
I was thinking maybe of texting him tomorrow... is that too soon?
Since I don't want anything relationship wise, I wonder if I can throw out the whole "pursuing" thing and just be up front!
I want my ring back before school starts in September.
I'd wait a few more days and if you haven't heard from him, text him about the ring.
The previews for Eat, Pray, Love did look good, thanks for the LBS review of it. I'll add it to my "want to see" list.
I agree with Seeing Red, if ZooBrew doesn't contact you in the next few days text him to ask about getting your ring back.
zoobrew DID tell me the next morning that I left the ring!
also I DON'T know what's going on with his exG, and I never wanted an R-- lol, GM, sometimes I read too fast, too!
OK, I will blend the advice.Wait a few days (Wed) and then text him.
Thank you, ladies!
Yes, get the ring back. It could certainly be misinterpreted if the GF finds it. just get it back. You can be coy later.
Well, at the time, he had texted this message: "you left a few items here..." and then I responded but didn't say anything about picking them up. BECAUSE at that time, I thought maybe he would have to bring them over to my house! I didn't intend to leave them, but since I did I thought why not use that as an excuse to come get them.
GM- I have been with dogs and good guys...both are conflict avoiders. I suspect zoobrew got back with his ex but doesn't know how to tell me or something? or is worried he "used me?" even though I made it clear that I wanted to be used!
So I dont' feel like waiting a couple more days after all. Last time, I had to be the one to initiate contact so I am getting the growing feeling that has to be the case again!
NM,
To me that's a red flag...I guess I wasn't expecting him to be so quick to get back together with his ex and just before he did he made the move on you. I know you weren't planning to have a R with him but I was a bit surprised to hear this. And now he won't contact you to even return your stuff.
How about:
"I would really like to have my ring back this week. Goodluck with everything."
"I'll be in the area tomorrow please let me know when will it be a good time to pick up my ring from you. Thanks"
Thanks IR! Again, I have no clue if he got back with her! I just am wondering. Don't worry about red flags- it's a good thing I
wasn't wanting something more.
So, here is what I am about to send...I will wait 5 minutes to get your all's opinion and then my patience will be up!
:
Hi Zoobrew! How's it going? I would really like to get my ring back soon. I was thinking maybe we could meet somewhere or you could even mail it to me.
Are you comfortable with him mailing it to you? I wouldn't.
Meeting someplace is a good idea but perhaps make a suggestion so it has more weight. Like a particular mall or some place open/public- not some romantic restaurant.
After you get your ring back I would delete this guy from your phone and that be that. He doesn't sound like much of a gentleman at all. In fact, he sounds like he likes the thrill of the chase when it suits him yet he can't offer you the common courtesy to contact you about returning an item YOU left behind when YOU went to his house. Very rude given what has happened IMO.
I am glad you don't feel bad but I would not have much to do with this man again!
OK I just read a post in newcomers about how men appreciate humor to lighten the situation SOOO
Here is what I sent:
"Hi zoobrew! How's it going? I do need to get my "single woman" ring back soon-except now it is my "get lucky" ring,lol! You could mail it to me if that's easier:)"
And then I got a text with a "!" in the message and it said
"She's ALIVE! Alive I tell you!I thought I upset you somehow."
So I replied "no! I just thought you had a lot on your plate last week and thought...? I don't know! So how are you?"
and we shall see what he says!
I am putting this whole text exchange up verbatim. Again, I really really don't think he is a scumbag. But I am definitely going to communicate directly with him on the phone later- no more stupid guessing and crap. I will still be smart, don't you worry.
He replied "Thanks for the consideration. My plate is pretty full this week with the kids and this looming exG thing. Other than that been enjoying the hot weather. How about you?"
(what????he didn't talk to her LAST week??? I thought I heard him tell me that!)
So I reply "Well, S has been sick but is better. Can you talk later tonight?"
him:"sure"
(now, I am trying to be more direct so that I am not coming across as wanting "TO TALK")
me:"Great! is after 9 all right with you? btw, by "chat" I mean having a pleasurable conversation...er..that's not what I meant...see why the phone is good?;) "
him:"after 9 is great. kids down between 9-9:30"
me:"ok then I will call you after 9:30! Stay cool today :-)"
him: "and stay thirsty my friend(s):
me:"lol! aren't you clever-no, make that "the most interesting man in the world!" but you KNOW I am parched...;)
him:lol too funny!
sigh.....I am going to tell him that I swear he said he was talking to her last week...and that is why I didn't call him because I kind of thought he would call me to let me know what happened...but I didn't want to ask in case it was gruesome or in case I would be disturbing their "make up" sessions.
Something like that.
Let me ask you this...
Now that you know he didn't talk with his exGF last week and he still didn't call you what do you think? Do you find it odd that each time the two of you talk or spend time together it is initiated by you? Maybe I am REALLY far out of the dating/fling loop (probably so, lol!) but why do you keep making more effort while he sits back and lets you? I am really just curious?!
I am all for certain forms of delicious torture but *that* kind of torture needs to be two sided IMO!
Yeah, I don't like it that she's doing all of the pursuing here either. More importantly, why isn't he at least being decisive and doing things like setting the times?
Her interest is evident. She's also controlling the whole thing (from what I can see) however.
What is it they say about rebounds that has me worried for her? That people often use them to act out unresolved issues of their last relationship (e.g. If I had only tried this...).
CG, you've brought up a VERY interesting question here. And for my own benefit I need your opinion on something.
If me, as a guy, is always calling or emailing or texting a girl that I like would that be seen as less manly or would that somehow diminish my value in her eyes? I wonder about that myself but then I go WTH life's too short and unpredictable to engage in metal warfare over LOVE! Maybe you can help me understand this from a woman's perspective.
If me, as a guy, is always calling or emailing or texting a girl that I like would that be seen as less manly or would that somehow diminish my value in her eyes?
LOL, if it's working, then it's obvious. If it isn't working, your ego won't accept that it isn't working, so you will be confused
The trick is taking your ego out of the equation by really focusing on the other person and whether or not they are
acting interested instead of focusing on your own interest all of the time.
Of course, don't get deeply involved with somebody you aren't interested in just because they are interested in you either.
The absolute tell-all action of somebody who is really not interested at all is... they won't commit to a specific time (the old, "if I have nothing really better to do--like wash my hair--we might go out on friday, so I will let you know").
That's pretty much a sure indicator that they either have no real interest, or they are just so unconfident that you should steer clear anyway.
Well, I can help you understand it from my perspective but I cannot say it would be the perspective of ALL women!
Everybody has a different idea or thought of how the male/female dynamic should go. I personally, especially at this point in my life, would not feel very "safe" being the aggressor in a R/fling/getting to know you period. I have not been around a "new" man since I have been 22 years old and what you *think* when you are 22 and what you *know* when you are 35 differ vastly.
I'm not suggesting a man be a puppet and allow the lady he is interested in to pull all the strings... not at all. Some women though (me for example) have what many might call "old fashion" ideas of how they would like a courtship/dating experience to begin.
Obviously when you meet somebody new you don't know their history and what they have experienced. How could you? I never pursued my H and he never really pursued me. He and I were VERY good friends and things sort of just happened in a very natural way. I also know that during our marriage my H was VERY lazy about being any sort of leader and I won't have that in my life again. Not everybody gets the opportunity to find a partner/R that begins with a very tight friendship (that feels safe to me) but anything else (to me) is kind of scary.
Maybe I am too skeptical but really... if a guy called me on a Sunday night to come over I would say buzz off. And if I didn't say buzz off and I did go and we "watched a movie" and I didn't hear from him again... um, no. My text would be: I'd like my ring back, when can I expect that to happen?
Like I said - maybe I am old fashion and nerdy but in the beginning I would feel much safer and at ease if the man could make some initial general gestures. If he is not cool with me needing a bit of time to let somebody new in my life AFTER a divorce, well, not much I can say about that. A man who treats a man like a lady would never have diminished value to me.
I like to have a balance in who initiates contact. The lady I am seeing for the last 4-5 months will sometimes send me a new email and I will sometimes send her a new email. Neither of us has pushed past kissing to the point of advancing our relationship. I think we both are just content at being friends for now and let things progress on its own time frame. And when we go out for dinner, I pay - it is what a guy should do.
Ok I am going to reply to one post each
(And you guys really are awesome online friends- thanks for being there!)
Now that you know he didn't talk with his exGF last week and he still didn't call you what do you think? Do you find it odd that each time the two of you talk or spend time together it is initiated by you? Maybe I am REALLY far out of the dating/fling loop (probably so, lol!) but why do you keep making more effort while he sits back and lets you? I am really just curious?!
So, what I honestly think is that this man was intending to take a break, go with the flow, and went out with me on a whim.
I think he is just having fun and has mentioned several times about the last time he was dating, the women wanted to get serious really fast. I think because I am no pressure, and into a fling thing, he is not doing any work.
Also, I think that he isn't clear headed right now. Lots of fly by the seat of his pants stuff happening here.
And, also, perhaps because I have mentioned several times that I am not looking for a boyfriend, he is letting me "drive" and pursue.
And, the women in the past have all come on strong to him...so he HASN'T had to do much work!
He has initiated some stuff, like after we went out the first time, he texted me to ask me if I wanted to go out again.
After we talked, I texted him and then he waited 4 days before texting me to talk.
Then, after I texted him after the 2nd date, he texted me a week later, then he called me on his own a few days later. And he initiated contact the morning after. SO it isn't entirely all me!
As for me making the effort...I don't know!!! I will reply to some others now.
That sounds very nice and lovely, Kerry. I do agree that balance is important and after a few months I can see exactly HOW important balance is for both parties. But I guess I feel (remember, I am an old fashion nerd, lol!) that a man should call a lady first for a while.
I was mistaken - I had thought you were the only one initiating contact.
In reality, a lot of relationships are such that one is a distancer and the other is the pursuer.
You might want to check out
Mars and Venus on a Date by John Gray. I like the relationship stages he talks about in the book.
So there's this poster named Timeheals. He addresses me as "she" instead of saying "Newmama, I don't like how you are doing all of the...etc." He means well although sometimes I get a little defensive because she doesn't think Timeheals trusts her ability to handle life. LOL! Isn't it ANNOYING to be talked about? Please address me directly
Yeah, I don't like it that she's doing all of the pursuing here either. More importantly, why isn't he at least being decisive and doing things like setting the times?
See the above post to CG. If I were into something more, then I would be annoyed as well. Perhaps this guy is a major conflict avoider or "he's just not that into me." Which is better than the opposite because I would be hurting him or pushing him away.
Her interest is evident. She's also controlling the whole thing (from what I can see) however.
haha! I AM interested. But I am aware of that...I am using my brain instead of my heart.
What is it they say about rebounds that has me worried for her? That people often use them to act out unresolved issues of their last relationship (e.g. If I had only tried this...).
This WILL be something I will be doing in my next serious relationship.I don't see why that is wrong, though.
At the moment, I promise I am experimenting at best with the dating part. I mean it is different...WAY different than the relationship part. I have broken almost all the rules EXCEPT not pursuing heavily...which has worked for me in the past but I have never gone 2 weeks in between "dates" before. Well, yes I have, when I was dating a few guys at once (years ago).
I'm not doing anything! I am just watching and learning from all of you! My best attempt was going to dinner and looking for a window to crawl out of
I know you didn't ask me, but this is what I think:
when I like a guy, I want to know he likes me. I know he will like me when he does call me or text or email. HOWEVER
if the guy is texting me constantly throughout the day, barf! If he calls and I don't get back to him right away, and before I get a chance to reply HE CALLs then that is a turn off.
BUt I like regular contact! That is me.
The trick is taking your ego out of the equation by really focusing on the other person and whether or not they are acting interested instead of focusing on your own interest all of the time.
Of course, don't get deeply involved with somebody you aren't interested in just because they are interested in you either.
I agree with this....it makes sense to me that we have to see if they are interested by their actions and behavior. We also need to be aware of whether we are playing a chase game and that is the draw. But that has never been MY problem, lol! I suspect it happens to men a lot.
Maybe I am too skeptical but really... if a guy called me on a Sunday night to come over I would say buzz off. And if I didn't say buzz off and I did go and we "watched a movie" and I didn't hear from him again... um, no. My text would be: I'd like my ring back, when can I expect that to happen?
But what if you just wanted a fling...
See, I don't see it as a game or a chase or anything like that. IMO it's just about manners and to me I equate manners with the man making the first move.
Maybe I just need to become more "modern" in my thinking!
So there's this poster named Timeheals. He addresses me as "she" instead of saying "Newmama, I don't like how you are doing all of the...etc." He means well although sometimes I get a little defensive because she doesn't think Timeheals trusts her ability to handle life. LOL! Isn't it ANNOYING to be talked about? Please address me directly
LOL. I was replying to CG
If it makes you feel any better, I sort of think of you like a little sister (in internet land), so I am probably a bit over-protective
Do you 2 talk about your pace? Is it known you are just progressing as friends?
Well, I can honestly say I have never had a fling and the idea of a fling is not appealing to me at all.
I am quite happy "alone". I have really amazing friends I cherish each day, my family is nothing short of the best people on Earth, I have a cool old dog and all my activities and my work.
I think there is something lovely and delightful about getting to know a new person. But at this stage of my life I would have to be very interested initially to WANT to get to know somebody better. For me the process would need to be very slow which I guess is part of the beauty of it all. To me a fling sounds stressful and not something that would add any value to my life. I mean who doesn't like sex? Of course I like sex! But I also sort of view sex as something that is very sacred. And I do equate a fling with sex so it's all very foreign to me.
This is coming from a woman who was ENGAGED to be married and my teeny tiny southern mama would not allow my FIANCE in my bedroom before marriage. And trust me, you don't cross her
I sort of admire how open you are to trying new things, putting yourself out there and trying new approaches. If a fling makes you feel how you want to feel then FLING away, girl!
I don't see why any discussion is necessary about the pace Kerry and his friend are progressing. If they enjoy one another and the process of getting to know one another why does it have to be defined and discussed? Why can't it just *be*?
I am actually really trying to understand why that would come up?
God, I think I need more help than what is available!
You are so correct CityGirl! I dont want to be in one of those relationships where one of us eventually has to say "so where are we?". I just enjoy her company right now.
See, I don't see it as a game or a chase or anything like that. IMO it's just about manners and to me I equate manners with the man making the first move.
I like that! Manners. Not games!! But also, once I think people are in exclusive relationships, we don't worry about games. We are more comfortable (supposed to be--I need to learn how) to express feelings and needs.
I agree 110% Once a R is past the new stages I think it is REALLY important to be able to discuss parts of the R. I thought we were talking about when a new person came along!
Maybe we all just have different definitions of how "getting to know a person" should go!
You are so correct CityGirl! I dont want to be in one of those relationships where one of us eventually has to say "so where are we?". I just enjoy her company right now.
Thanks for explaining that! It sounds much more relaxed and pressure free. I will keep that in mind for the future. (and present)
ok I just want to clarify...here is how I will operate when I want to "get to know someone" and "see where it goes:"
1) I may or may not ask him out; I don't kiss him on the 1st date and I don't talk about sexy stuff
2) I wait for him to let me know if he wants to see me again
3) we go out, I behave myself (lol) and maybe kiss him on the 2nd date (at the very end if it seems ok and I am interested)
4)I wait for him to call me (sorry- letting the man set the pace)
5)If he calls back within 1-3 days I know he is interested. The sooner he calls back, the more he is interested
6) at this point, we set up another date. we go out and kiss at the most
7)I feel comfortable at this point in calling him or sending him a text to show I am interested. The guy shouldn't have to be left hanging.
8)I don't bug him too much; he may call me, or I might text/call him
9)after 4 dates and phone conversations I will get a feel for how frequent of contact he would like or prefer
10) we just start spending time together (which could mean 1-2x a week every other week or 1x week --NOT every day or 3+ times a week! that is my pace) and if he says "I really like you" I reciprocate but I DO NOT say it first! and then it goes from there,
I haven't progressed much past 6 months so I don't know what happens! lol! But I listed the above so you can see I am so not an agressive hussy when it comes to dating for a relationship, lol!
And my man friends (i.e. husbands of my female friends or the guy from Massachussets that I talk to every day)
CLEARLY DO NOT LIKE PRESSURE, PUSHY WOMEN, or "stalker" behaviors
I never said I thought you were an aggressive hussy (if you were directing that at me). I simply said I think you have a more modern outlook on dating than I do. You did say that you dated during most of your 20's. Well, I was married for most of my 20's and the first half of my thirties so obviously you have more experience with dating than I do.
Only you can decide what is best for you. I do think these are VERY interesting and enlightening conversations and isn't that the point? To learn from each other, be challenged by the views and ideals of others and somehow navigate through the post divorce exploratory period with support?
To me, I would think HOLY CRAP who needs all this thought like you posted above (how you approach a R or getting to know you period). But you know what? Who cares if that is what you feel you like!
I do think you are an aggressive woman when it comes to men and I don't think there is a thing wrong with that! In fact, I am going to guess MOST men would find it kinda hot! Obviously you know what you want and you have a clear plan on how to get it and as a woman I admire that. I bet you would think I am aggressive in other areas that seem a bit foreign to you. That is sort of the amazing nature of women - we can learn and challenge each other.
I ask many questions because I am curious and quite frankly VERY unsure about men at this point. I don't ask to condemn you choices or ideals. Quite the contrary... I ask because your outlook is very different than mine so why not learn from it.
You and I agree on very little (clearly, lol!) but I do think you are a nice person who always tries to see the absolute best in people. And those are amazing qualities to have and ones you should celebrate daily! I also think your friend 'zoobrew' is using you and since you TOLD him all you wanted was a fling he is taking advantage of that. I personally think you deserve MUCH better given the dedication you seem to have to a future R.
Holy Cow NM! I peeked at your thread a couple of hours ago and am amazed at how much has happened on here since then!
I think I will just say "hey!" and check back later!
Newmama - Arigato to you for completing the algorithm we so desperately needed in our project...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2wYWAlg8Do
CG--I did not think you thought I was a hussy or aggressive-- no worries!
When you said:
Maybe we all just have different definitions of how "getting to know a person" should go!
It caused me to reflect on how I personally like to get to know someone when dating. I added the comment about the hussy as a way to make fun of myself for being one at the moment!
HOWEVER I have always marveled at the romantic idea of being "just friends" with a guy and then we fall in love like in the movies! It does sound ideal to me. Just foreign at the moment.
oh and I didn't read all of your post...I, too, am just learning from the discussions and different points of view and am totally 100% comfortable with the discussion. Seriously! Because there are "different strokes for different folks."
I'm sorry to repeat myself but I really am not "aggressive" NORMALLY! I think that is why I posted those silly 10 steps (and I don't follow a formula, lol! It was just an example!)
haha, Kerry!! That was just a joke, right? (I am gullible) they don't really have a robotic woman out there? they already have robotic men called BOBs, lol!
LMAO!
NM, you're not trying to save your marriage right now, you're trying to enjoy yourself! Get your groove back, lady!!!
Uncensored/unsolicited advice from Mrs. A: forget the ring! You know where to find it if you *really* want it. For now, let Zoobrew want to see you *without* using the ring as rationale! Say, "Oh, Zoobrew, I was planning to wear it out tomorrow night (because it really is soooo nice), but I found another one that looks just as good, so I'm fine. Whenever...."
And he'll say, "Ok, NM, well like I told you, this is a really busy week for me. I have a lot going on, so just be patient. But I promise to get you back that ring. I wouldn't want to deprive you of the symbol of your luckiness!!"
BUUUTTTT... then he'll be like, "I gotta get that ring back to NM sometime, I should call her." And then you'll chat again and tell him how nice it was for him to call because you hadn't really thought about the ring but you WERE wondering how HE was doing, and before you know it the ring will be the farthest thing from either of your minds!!!!!
You're in the fun part now!!!! (Nothing more, nothing less, right?!) And lucky for you, it seems like you've found a willing accomplice!
Well, we all need something to marvel at!
<read the book, you will love it!>
just lurkin! and now popping up to say that i am. hee hee!
Gatsby! You have been hiding in the dark this whole time?
lol!
Mrs. A- did you wade through the pages of posts to see that we are chatting tonight? I guess I could not mention the ring. I don't know! I do know that next week he doesn't have his kids.
I think I want to know if I will hear from him again (one way or the other) after he talks to his exG. I want to ask somehow.
Oh, I mean his "looming exG thing..." as he put it.
CG- what book? are you teasing or is there a book?? I would totally read it!
am killing a little time here because zoobrew got back late from the trip to the river and is calling me back!
Well, I wanted to say that the other day stbxh mentioned to me that he couldn't find "otter pops" for S. Today I was at the store and happened to come across some. So I picked up a box and then gave it to him when he picked up S.
He was very touched. what felt AWESOME was that I was not doing it for any other reason (i.e. not like before) than because I knew he was looking for them and I found some.
Also what was awesome was that while he was dropping S off and talking to me, a very audible "doorbell" sound came from the other room...I programmed my texts to make that sound! So we both heard that I received a text, lol!
I was discussing the schedule with him for next week and said "thanks for being willing to take S so often overnight these days. I don't mean to ask too often..." and he said "oh, it is totally fine! I love to see him as much as I can!"
heh heh heh.....!
Ok so this is kind of how the conversation went:
+I was hoping to keep the conversation light and flowing and still address the issue as to why I didn't call him and he didn't call me. It seems that on the phone (these last few times) he is more serious and not too playful. However, when I saw him last, he was totally playful (in person). What I am saying was that I was hoping for a playful conversation but it felt kind of akward, instead! (!) He wasn't in a talkative mood.
I REALLY hate talking on the phone when the other person doesn't want to talk. If I don't want to talk, I say "well, sorry, but I am kind of tired. Can we talk later?" or something.
+Apparently he didn't call me because he thought he offended me when he didn't hear from me; he expected I would call him next (guess he takes turns?) but I didn't press him on it. We aren't "in a relationship," so why bother? (a freedom of the fling thing)
+he appreciated that I was giving him space when I thought he was talking to his exG.
+the reason why he hasn't met with his exG is because they aren't supposed to talk until 12 anger management classes have been completed...she is to contact him. He has heard through her family that she has one more to complete, so he should be hearing from her soon. He still has no clue as to whether they will reconcile at this point until he talks to her to see if she is willing to work on her problems.
(I could NEVER EVER EVER live with someone who is volatile and angry and wants to argue all the time....and he could never live with someone who cheated on him! to each his own...lol?)
+I asked that he please just text or call me to let me know what happens with her (if he talks to her) because regardless of whether we dated or slept together, I still am curious to know the outcome! He said he would.
+and I FORGOT to bring up the ring! But I truly have NO qualms now about contacting him via text or phone now. In fact, I could give a hoot about the rules of who calls who at this point! So, I am going to the beach here in a couple days and don't need my ring. Sometime between now and Sunday I will send him a text. At that point, I will be able to tell if we will see each other (one last time?) or not but I will just directly ask for the ring back. He doesn't have his kids next week so he has more time.
Ok I tell you guys way too much. I am CHOOSING to fling or not to fling but I am wincing from what I suspect will be 2x4s coming my way! I have my riot gear on...
Fling away!
Here's my take on this guy...FWIW...
He is the type that does not show how he feels. Keeps his emotional distance. This keeps everyone in his life guessing where he stands and where they stand with him. Someone with this kind of fear of intimacy is very hard to get along with. It would also explain his GF's anger. She may be resentful and picking fights just to get him to emote.
Not good R material but *&^% buddy hot!
Forgot to add...he did explain that he didn't contact me because "he's new to this...doesn't know how it works!"
I feel like I get to be the boss. Maybe we will have one of those dominant submissive things, lol!
WN!! HAHAHA! *&%$buddy hot is correct!
How did I meet ANOTHER man like my stbxh who keeps his emotional distance????
and FWIW, zoobrew was adopted (from birth) and still has some issues around that.
Oh and her mom said she was like this her whole life...that is why I doubt 99.9% that she would be capable of change. And zoobrew said that he also walked on eggshells because for awhile he thought he was the one doing something to make her mad. SHe was with him during his divorce. They were friends first and then grew to more. He felt guilty for pushing her away. Ok that's enough info!
As long as you keep your emotional distance, have fun. BUT...OTOH..he may become intrigued by you since you are not pursuing him. He probably doesn't know how to handle another distancer!
The book I was talking about was Eat, Pray, Love!
You said you "marvel" and that is from the movie! I haven't seen the movie but I did read the book - you said you saw the movie and had not read the book. I think you would like it!
Ok I tell you guys way too much. I am CHOOSING to fling or not to fling but I am wincing from what I suspect will be 2x4s coming my way! I have my riot gear on...
"Surviving the Big D and Dating"
advisors are standing by to assist you.
Dominant NewMama. Is that a 180 for you? Got the leather and whips at the ready?
Mystik - post over here (we are all nuts!). You sound MUCH stronger here! I like it!
Mystik - post over here (we are all nuts!). You sound MUCH stronger here! I like it!
I agree with CG! You do sound much stronger here Mystik!
This thread is just buzzing all the time...good to read some fun stuff! I am like a fly on the wall...silently enjoying the fun!
NM, 85 pages of posts! How can a girl catch up with what you've been doing?! Can you provide me a quick 2-3 line summary? Can't wait to read it, ha!
Kerry--wow, that image of the man with the 2x4 will be floating above my shoulder when I am contemplating certain actions! Scary!
Piano here is the recap but it will be a paragraph:
I ended up "gettin it on" with zoobrew over a week ago and left my ring at his house (accidentally). He said he was meeting with his exG that week to see if she was remorseful and willing to improve her anger issues. I decided not to pursue in any way to give him space and really thought he would be calling to let me know what happened. A week later,I still hadn't heard from him so I sent him a text asking for my ring back. Turns out he still hasn't talked to his exG and wanted to see me again but didn't contact me because he thought he offended me (when I didn't contact him) and because he "doesn't know how to do this kind of thing." I talked to him on the phone on Monday night and you can get the recap on page 84. If circumstances allow, WE WILL have another session!
Mystik--whoa, where did that side of you come from?
I like it!
OH, CG- now I get it! I thought you meant the book for becoming friends with a man and falling in love!
Just came back from spending the night at my friend's house. S loves her kids and vice-versa so it's great although always a little stressful being in a non baby proof place!
Well we watched a really boring movie with some good "one liners" but it was "Greenberg" with Ben Stiller. If anyone has seen it and like it, please explain it to me. Here is good one liner:
"Hurt People HURT people."
Very true don't you think?
CW--the whole dating saga seems to attract opinions! (as it should)
Sent zoobrew a "flirty" text around 6:30 (after his kids had left to visit their mom...just in case)
Got a reply instantly that implied he approved.
Sent him another and didn't hear back for over an hour!
He replied that he just got it and again, indicated he approved.
I left it by saying something else and signed off "until we chat again..."
He replied with a
hahaha!
NM, I just tried to send you a message on the alt and *it* got blocked! Blocking is my life story!!!!!
I got your message, Mrs. A!
Did my 20 minute pilates work out last night and can feel it this morning!
When I woke up, I looked at my phone and noticed a text from zoobrew around 12 a.m. asking if I was still up.
Going to the beach until Sunday...have a lot to pack!
Stay well, my friends!
Hope you have a great time at the beach. In about a week and a half it will be my turn there.
nm,
Have a great time away!
Peace,
I wish I was doing pilates!
Have fun at the beach, NM.
Wow, I had a truly fabulous time at the beach! First off, I mentioned that I was nervous to take S there as a single parent. But it was only rocky in the beginning when I first arrived and couldn't really unpack or anything because my friends weren't there to help watch S.
Now when I arrived, the house on the outside was gorgeous, right on the lakeshore, with a private dock and backyard that had a fire pit with plenty of folding chairs.
The inside....well, the bedrooms for my friends were HUGE and we had 3 bathrooms for all 10 of us so it was good. But my room, for S and I, was apparently a "smoking" room. The stench was so thick it reminded me of a casino. We used tons of air freshener, which I know has tons of chemicals but so does carbon monoxide and the other cancer causing toxic stuff in cigarette smoke.
Also, the floors looked like they hadn't been swept or mopped since the last guests and the carpet was definitely not vacuumed! There were spider webs and dead bugs in the windowsills. BUT the bathroom sinks, toilets, and showers were clean!
I called my friends when I arrived and described it. When they finally got there, they actually said it wasn't as bad as they expected. So we got over it, and had fun swimming in the lake, taking the boat out, going to the crazy park that was right next door, going on various hikes, and eating some good food- I had barbecued oysters for the first time! So good when you dip them in garlic butter sauce, lol!
And we had a campfire every night. The first night's theme of conversation had to do with being a stepparent, divorced families, kids setting up fake accounts on myspace. The second night's theme was spiritual experiences and ghostly paranormal experiences. The third night's theme was planning for natural disasters and how bad Katrina was.
We all took turns watching the kids, playing with the kids, feeding the kids. It was awesome!
OH and stbxh was acting pretty weird...I will explain on the next post.
AND zoobrew sent me a text on Friday night asking me how my time was going. He said he and his kids were in the mountains for the next few nights. So I don't know if that means TONIGHT, but I will not expect to see him. I replied briefly, asked a Q and he replied. I decided to text him tonight to ask how his trip was going and that I came home and was working on unpacking. Still waiting for a reply...sent it 45 minutes ago. I mean I am doing plenty of other things! So I am not WAITING per say, but you know what I mean.
So about stbxh....he took some furniture that he said he was going to take. I came home to see the place looked a little different, but not much. I did feel a little teary.
Side note- I also felt teary when I was on my way to the beach house trip because this was a tradition my friends and I started when I met stbxh.
My friends mentioned him like he had died or something- a couple of times they said things like "stbxh could fix anything!" or " stbxh was always so good at helping out without being asked" or "stbxh did excellent work on your house" or "stbxh would have loved these water activities we're doing!"
OK so stbxh came to pick up S. He walks up to the door, just closing his phone. He said "my mom called to say she is coming in 2 weeks. Great. She didn't ask as usual."
I just thought "well at least it's not MY problem anymore!"
He told me the things he took this weekend and he said "I just don't want you to think I was leaving this for you to deal with." I said "ok. I don't really think that. " BUt I was not interested in talking about it.
Then he asks how S did on the trip and I told him some of the fun things he got to do. I mentioned that the spray sunscreen is bad because they found that babies breathe it into their lungs so the toxic crap (that is in practically every sun screen) gets into the body more readily. So he said "ok, so we won't be using that then. right?"
He seemed curious about the trip-said a few times "so he had fun, huh? everything was ok? the trip went well?" I think he missed it! I really do!
Then he asked me about the yard...he said "what's your opinion- I think we need to trim that tall tree because it's so close to the house. I could get a quote from someone to come and do it. What do you think?"
I really think "I could give a crap since YOU agreed to be the one in charge of the yard stuff and you said 3-4 months ago that you were going to put grass in the yard and lay down bark chips. BUt you have yet to do it. But you like to repeat it a lot."
But I said "Well, I guess it looks pretty dangerous to try and do it yourself. I guess it would be smart to get someone to cut it."
And he had put S in the car. S was waiting, I was trying to unload my car and get on with my evening. Then he goes into the garage and asks about painting the bathroom.
The night he delivered the D papers, I had been painting the hallway bathroom. I stopped of course, and never even rinsed out the roller or the paint tray. I put it on the work bench and left it there. So the roller is rock hard stiff, stuck to the tray,and I just haven't dealt with it yet.
He asks me if I want him to get a gallon of paint so I could finish the bathroom. He said he would do the trimming part. I just said "well, ok, but I don't know if I need a whole gallon."
And finally I had to be the one to say "well, I gotta go because I need to unpack and take a shower and stuff."
Hmm. I did put a box of the love letters I wrote him in the office. I didnt see them in the garbage. Did he see the teeny piece of condom wrapper I left on the floor in the bedroom? Because I left the door open so that my new bedding and paintings and very clean bedroom were on display!
My friends mentioned him like he had died or something- a couple of times they said things like "stbxh could fix anything!" or " stbxh was always so good at helping out without being asked" or "stbxh did excellent work on your house" or "stbxh would have loved these water activities we're doing!"
Sad. Sorry, it's just the place I'm at now.
But I love the condom wrapper part!
Hi NM!!! Glad you and S had a great time!
Interesting how long your H stayed talking....
Hey, welcome back from the beach! I also know that feeling about the crowd wishing WH was there. My WH was the life of the party. Life (and dinners) are really quiet without him! Also miss having someone to lift heavy bags, drive the car when I am tired - you know, general husband stuff!!
Good that he showed so much interest in your beach trip. He's missing out on the fun!
I did a lot of pilates the last few years..need to get back to it as I am gaining weight..1.5 kgs in the last two weeks.
NM - I am glad you had a good time!
I think this is the hardest part about getting a D, but still getting along with your stbxh. He is being nice, and you get along so why D? I am at that place too. H text me out of the blue yesterday to ask if I had a fall/spring jacket because he found one he wanted to buy me. I don't know. It is just so weird because I don't want to be friends. I will be nice, but he is the one who has chosen to not work on us.
It is just weird how stbxh wants to talk and wants to do stuff for you, but in the end, you are still getting a D.
CW-I am very lucky that S is mellow snd my friends are so awesome! I really think my stbxh was affected by moving the stuff or something. I wish people were more upfront.
It is just weird how stbxh wants to talk and wants to do stuff for you, but in the end, you are still getting a D.
Yes. WEIRD. And out of my control!
Piano--don't worry, you will lose the weight. It's winter down there, right? So you might be nesting or stress eating or something. And stbxh wasn't the life of the party but he added to it at least.
G--glad you approved of my silly parlor trick,lol! It amused ME at least!
Did he see the teeny piece of condom wrapper I left on the floor in the bedroom?
NM, in my humble opinion I wouldn't recommend this. Just GAL for you!
IR- now you tell me your advice- AFTER I did it? j/k
I know, I know...
Well am moving stuff into my classroom today. I am in a very emotional mood right now--about stbxh! I was last night, too! I thought I woke up feeling better but I just keep crying about him. Seriously--having him move more of his things AFTER THIS LONG still evokes sadness?
I never heard back from zoobrew... so I decided to send one more text that is direct, something like "Do you want to get together sometime this week?" with some joky stuff in there.
I sent that around 40 minutes ago. The thing is, he really truly has replied to every text I sent him (in the past). The longest time between getting a reply was a couple of hours I think.
So I wonder if he can't access his phone or something? He is in the mountains...maybe it fell off of a ski lift? lol! I don't know. I think he is still interested since he initiated a text to me last Friday.
I do expect a reply, since that has been 100% consistent based on his past behavior (which predicts future behavior).
Well, he was able to figure out a way to get my email before he knew my number, so I guess I won't worry about it too much.
It's understandable you are emotional but maybe it's not all because your H moved a few items out.
You went away on a weekend that has been a tradition for you and your H. You are about to make a huge life change by going back to work after staying home for a year. Both events are substantial things that can make your mind take pause.
I know you wanted a fling with zoobrew but IMO wondering why he hasn't texted you back and saying you "expect" a reply based on past behaviors is not "fling thinking". I just say this because you seem very vulnerable today.
You are in a very difficult position because your son is so little. I know it's not feasible to REALLY go dark on your H but in many ways it does prolong your pain. For example, you have been saying for some time (based on what your H said) that your yard would be fixed up and so far that has not been done. I would send your H a very business like message and tell him that you will need a firm timeline on when he plans to address his responsibilities at the house (yard). Your divorce will be final soon and things of that nature need to be wrapped up. Ask him for copies of all the estimates - depending on how your divorce decree is structured monies invested in the house will matter when it comes time to divide assets.
I would perhaps suggest you begin to take a far more business like approach with your H.
Do you really feel sad/emotional over the furniture or what it represents? You have a few major changes coming up (ex: going back to work, son going to daycare) so perhaps that is all tied in.
This is an odd phase indeed. Every move you make now is one that distances you from your H and the marriage you once had. Every move he makes distances HIM from you and the marriage you once had. I almost wonder if one or two weeks of getting LOTS of stuff done (him removing everything from the home, completing household projects) would be easier and not the slow torture the two of you sort have going on now. You are very agreeable with your H and I suppose that is good to a degree but maybe if you took a more firm/business like stance some of these ongoing issues would be a thing of the past.
You went away on a weekend that has been a tradition for you and your H. You are about to make a huge life change by going back to work after staying home for a year. Both events are substantial things that can make your mind take pause.
Wow, thank you, CG! That makes a lot of sense actually. I don't know about the yard. I don't care. Really, I don't. There is no grass to mow or worry about. I won't be living there past next year. So if he is going to do something about it, it is his problem.
But thanks for your suggestion!
As for a reply from zoobrew...still nothing but I think I am going to stop reporting about what goes on between zoobrew and I. Sorry--guess I want some privacy after all, even though I was the one to post everything!
[quote]I don't know about the yard. I don't care. Really, I don't. There is no grass to mow or worry about. I won't be living there past next year. So if he is going to do something about it, it is his problem.
NM, this attitude is SO GREAT and SO IMPORTANT for yourself! You've come a looooonnnngg way, girl!
Who cares about the stupid yard? That's just deflecting, and WH will see right through it. You're not trying to "win him back", but you're also NOT trying to make a b***h out of yourself when you never were before. Under a really tough set of circumstances, you're keeping your head and doing awesome.
With the clear caveat that advice is WAY easier to give than to take, I'll say this: If WH is stewing in a bit of nostalgia at the moment, let him! And if you are, let yourself! But don't start to swap the business aspect of getting a D in for all the emotional fallout.
Sorry, CG - I don't mean to disagree with you! Just seems like the yard isn't worth starting a debate over, especially if it's not causing NM angst.
BUT--I couldn't agree more with CG that you have major stuff going on and you should give yourself a break on the occasional crying jag.
Sincerely,
Mrs. A
Anybody is welcome to disagree! I wasn't suggesting you start a debate/argument about the yard (or anything for that matter). I was suggesting (using the yard as an example, something tangible) that you start letting your H take care of his things even though they might still be part of you. The example that seemed easiest was the yard.
I understand you need to talk to your H about parenting things (obviously) but all this other discussion he tries to initiate is really due to his guilt. Don't indulge him because it does prolong your pain. I am not saying you are on the floor crying in total angst but all these little "things" take a toll in the midst of many life changes (divorce, going back to work, son in daycare and so on). The major life changes you have to deal with but all this other "stuff" is unnecessary ESPECIALLY when you feel "hmmmm, H is acting odd". You don't need it!
They yard sort of stood for a much bigger outlook - I guess I could have articulated that better.
Mr. New Mamma has been talking about this yard for some time. Do something or shut up about it but stop using it as a way to "talk". And maybe before it was okay but now it really is a new phase... lots of life changes happening and it's time for Mr. NM to be on his own and stop including NM when it suits him.
NM - if you feel like you need to cry in conjunction w/feeling "puzzled" by your H's actions it is time to retreat further. You have been strong and you need to stay strong as you finalize the divorce, return to work and learn how to adapt and thrive with what is coming up for you.
Good advice there, NM. Soooo many changes all at once. It's funny how it takes others to remind us just how many things are going on in our lives... we are often just so busy 'doing it', we can't see it.
A good cry never did any harm. I think sometime like has been said, one has so much on their plate that even the slightest situation will cause you to completely lose it.
I hadn't cried about filing for D at all until two weekends ago. I cried all day long. I did spend a lot of time with H that week because of S's doc appointment, then H's aunt's funeral, etc. so it all just hit me, but I wasn't really crying about H. I was crying because the summer was over, which I have done since I was little. I am always excited to start a new school year, but I still always cry that last weekend of the summer because I will miss the freedom and the fun. Have that on top of saying good-bye as it would seem to H's family because the D will be final in a few months and I won't see them anymore and I do love them a lot and get along with them better than H does. Plus being a funeral and getting along with H and wondering why he won't try to work it out.
Anyway it just all adds up. Don't feel bad that you got upset and cried about H moving his stuff. It is probably one of the first things that has happened in a while that reminds you that you are getting divorced. It is ok to mourn that some. My dad passed away almost 20 years ago and still today I will have times where I will see something or hear something and cry because I miss him. You can miss your H. It is natural. It is only a problem if that is all you think about.
Give yourself a chance to cry because the first week of going back to work it hard enough, but doing that while being a single mom is so hard, but you can handle it.
HI NM! Are you still sad?
Hey NM. How are you feeling today?
Hi you guys! Sorry for the absence- I have been busy GALing! Not sad!
Monday- went into class, went to store and park, worked out, Pilates, crashed early.
Tuesday- got my hair done, arranged pics for S, worked out, Pilates, went to store, went to dinner and movie with my teacherfriends from the playgroup and I told them about stbxh's A.
Today- working in my classroom, GETTING MY RING BACK*, taking items to my grandma, maybe taking S on an evening walk (if time permits)
So about telling the 3 teacher friends about stbxh's A. All I said was
"The reason we are getting divorced is because stbxh had an affair with a coworker. They started off as friends, my gut told me otherwise, he agreed to end the friendship but didn't. They started an affair during my pregnancy. Meanwhile, we went to counseling but he never changed his behavior so I suspected something was still going on and I looked up his cell records and found her number. He is choosing to divorce me and is living with her and her daughter now. He sees S a lot and is a good dad. I am really shocked because I always thought you could tell if someone would cheat. ANd I always thought I would instantly divorce someone if they did. But when it starts off as "just friends" and you have a baby and your H was a good man and your marriage wasn't terrible....well, it changes things."
I asked them to not say anything about why I am divorced because it is embarrassing. They said I shouldn't be embarrassed but they understood. And they understood why I didn't want to divorce him and wanted to try to stay in the marriage. And that was just about all we said about it! It was a lot easier than I thought but I DID have tequila and a beer before I told them, lol!
Oh and we saw "Switch." I liked the characters and the story was sweet, but pretty predictable and slow paced!
*I am such a hippocrate. OK so I heard from zoobrew yesterday. He texted and said his cell service didn't work in the mountains. Then he said he met with his exG and it was "hard stuff." And he said he needed time to process and he didn't want to string anyone along. So I figured that might happen and said "I understand! It must be hard, etc. etc. Can I get my ring back this week?" and here is the funny part.
So we start off texting logistics...when and where. I mentioned "Wendy's parking lot." He says "Which Wendy's?" and I replied "lol! Sorry- the one on ___" Then I said "10:45" and he said "No can do. How about 10:46?"
ANd then
"oh, and wear the low rise black mesh bikini I got you in Cabo. You know the one! lol"
I say "in that case, we better meet in the alley! And how did you know I like mesh? Ok I'll be good!"
he says "The alley it is!lol"
So let's just say I will be looking cute,wearing a tight t-shirt with denim capris and my hair looks INCREDIBLE! (sorry, but I rarely like my hair when they get it done and she did a terrific job!)
And I am proud of myself because originally he said "I will call you tomorrow and we can figure out where to meet" and I said "let's meet here at this time." I didn't want to talk on the phone--DISS, zoobrew! Of course I am so curious about what happened but if I won't see him again, why does it matter? Although the way he described it sounded like they are either brekaing up or taking a longer break. whatever! I am busy.
Oh and I did sign up for another single parent meetup on Sept 4 (Sat) which is a dueling piano event....unfortunately there is somethign about "intuitive matchmaking" going on, too! ugh...
Hi NM
Sounding good! Love the galing!
A little tequila and beer always helps soften things!
NM, I'm glad to hear you're doing OK and you can really reciprocate with Zoobrew at various levels whether it's something serious or just casual fun. You must be pretty easy going
So I have a question...how do you not get 'attached' to someone while dating? For me I end up investing way too much of myself emotionally...and then I start to freak out that I'm going to have to deal with another heartbreak when she decides to walk.
So how do you go into the 'dating' world saying well I like this girl a lot but I can't get emotionally involved?
So I have a question...how do you not get 'attached' to someone while dating? For me I end up investing way too much of myself emotionally...and then I start to freak out that I'm going to have to deal with another heartbreak when she decides to walk.
I think
1) you don't spend too much time with them- one date per week or evety 2 weeks
2) don't talk on the phone too much
3) if you find you like her more than she likes you, end it!
So how do you go into the 'dating' world saying well I like this girl a lot but I can't get emotionally involved?
see above
BUT ROMEO, ultimately you can just wait to date when your heart is healed and can handle a broken heart again!That's my plan now...when I spent time with zoobrew, I was high on feel good hormones. This high lasted several days and then faded if I didn't talk to him or see him. But I would have fallen for him if I saw him more frequently!
HI NM.... I am glad you are feeling better.
I'm sure it was difficult for you to confide to your colleagues about your H. When I am asked I simply say "my H had an ongoing affair and chose to leave the marriage to pursue his R with his assistant". I usually don't offer additional explanation as that pretty much says it all. It's really easy to judge how somebody handles things (we all do it, it's not right of course) but deep down you know the deal so be proud of the path you took if you felt it was the best course of action for you and your son.
Zoobrew - well, I'm glad you are getting your ring back. If you had some fun and learned a few things about yourself then it was time well spent.
IR - sometimes it's not all about being easy going but more about the circumstances surrounding the friendship (IMO of course). I think if both parties are upfront about their intentions or where they are at early one can temper things accordingly. After all, it's certainly not productive to have "circular discussions" or hone in on small details when maybe the big picture is what matters. Sometimes people do the best they can based on where they are in life.
Sounds like you will have a busy autumn season, NM! The change of seasons can do wonders!
Ok got my ring back! Here is what happened-
first, the plan to meet at 10:45 fell through. My friend C came to help me move into my classroom and she was irked that I was going to take some time to get my ring! wtf? But she got over it.
So I wait...5 minutes go by and then 10...I text him
"I'm here in my bikini!"
he texts "oh no! I just looked at the clock and thought it said almost 10!"
Hmmm
me: "I gotta do stuff-"
finally I said "call me to figure this out."
so he does and I can tell he was embarrassed and rushing around. We agreed to meet after 1.
Fast forward...I am there at the place, waiting "Must I always be waiting, waiting on you?" (I am so type A and he is so type B)
So finally he pulls up and tells me to hop in. I get my ring and bracelets. He said he liked my shirt and then asks "how are you?" I tell him great, busy but in a good way, having a good week, had a lot of fun at the beach. Asked how he was doing. He told me that he went to a concert last night and got totally tanked. (I think he slept in!) Then told me about the concert.
I admit I touched his arm and said "you look really good, zoobrew." while looking him up and down. HE DID!!! ALL TAN with his nice body and hairy legs! yowsa!
He said "so do you, newmama. You look really good...REALLY good, actually..."
Then I asked about his trip to the mountains. He showed me pics of the cabin where he and his kids stayed. I was thinking "ummm...what is the point of all this chit chat?" So i finally say "well, I had so much fun with you and had a great time. And it was nice to meet you, haha!" he says "me too! Ok, bye! Just kidding." and we chat about something else. Finally I say okay, well take care and I'll see you around!" I told him I was going to a meet up later on. He said "ok, see you later!"
Then I got out and it was funny because I had to wait at the walk light thingy to cross the street at the same time he was waiting to turn left at the light. I waved again (like the 2nd time...akward!) Then he turned and I crossed the street. He honked and gave me the peace sign.
I remember thinking...this man isn't done with me, haha!
2 hours later, I get a text from him that says "It was really nice seeing you today. :)" So I said "I felt the same!"
How much you wanna bet I hear from him again? lol!
i bet you looked good with your capris and hair!
I asked them to not say anything about why I am divorced because it is embarrassing. They said I shouldn't be embarrassed but they understood. And they understood why I didn't want to divorce him and wanted to try to stay in the marriage. And that was just about all we said about it! It was a lot easier than I thought but I DID have tequila and a beer before I told them, lol!
I had a really hard time with this as well when H first left. I was so embarrassed and ashamed because I never want to be D. I felt at the time that I caused this to happen. I finally got over it and although I don't flaunt it, I do tell people when they ask, and don't feel ashamed anymore because I know that although I made many mistakes, it is still does not give H the right to leave me for another worman.
Since you have been gone during most of your separation, it is probably harder because you have to first reaquaint yourselves, but don't be embarassed.
Enjoy getting back into working. And I agree I think you will hear from zoobrew again...maybe a little while later when he is more available and so are you.
just checking in...went to playgroup with S, dropped him off at daycare, ran some errands and went to my classroom for 4 hours. Wow...I was thinking "this isn't so bad- I will get it done, no problem!" and now I am thinking "I hope I can get into the building on Saturday..." It is just A LOT of work to set up a classroom, and that has nothing to do with the planning!
Stbxh used to help me every year. Oh well. He will be replaced by someone else in the future!
Next week the visitation schedule changes. I guess stbxh only sees him one day less...but it seems like a big change to me.
He will see him Tues overnight and Thurs evenings, with Sat overnights.Currently he sees him for some portion of the day EVERY day. Now he will miss 2 days.
My goal is to work flex hours so that on MWF, S will be in daycare for less than 8 hours a day. I have to determine if stbxh should drop him off at my house on Wed a.m. at 6:30 so that I can take him into daycare at 7:45 instead of him staying in daycare from 6:30 a.m. until 3:30--9 HOURS!!
DAY 4 of 20 minutes of Pilates...It is seriously the fastest way to build strength in your core! And NOT painful (I have RA) and WAY more interesting than just doing crunches!!
Today I am not putting S in daycare. He has been walking! So we are going to run errands and then try his new "land legs" at the zoo.
I am looking forward to work also o help me not feel so lonely and isolated!
nm,
DAY 4 of 20 minutes of Pilates...It is seriously the fastest way to build strength in your core! And NOT painful (I have RA) and WAY more interesting than just doing crunches!!
Today I am not putting S in daycare. He has been walking! So we are going to run errands and then try his new "land legs" at the zoo.
I am looking forward to work also o help me not feel so lonely and isolated!
Go, girl!
Peace,
Are you using a video? or just winging it?
That is so exciting that baby is walking! Get that helmet ready!
Sometimes I think S is older than he is. Mobility changes everything, I've heard!
I love the pilates. I am so so inspired to do something like that.
I would love to know about the pilates too? IS it a DVD? Which one? I HATE doing crunches!
Also....S IS WALKING!!! Awwww!!!! So cute! Before you know it he will be in kindergarten, then graduating and in college! Then you'll be a Grandma and guess what? You've already got the MLC H out of the way so it will ALL be good!!!!
WN-It is a 20 minute video...it came in a set of 5 or something but when I found that the 20 minute workout yielded good results, well why bother with the rest?
Gardner- thanks for the kudos! I hope I can keep it up and not lose interest, lol!
Gatbsy- S is almost 14 months...and I am grateful that he didn't walk at 10 months or something! A lot to keep up with!
Wow what a busy day...I woke up at 5 to work out before stbxh dropped S off (good for me!)
I take S with me to get gas, go to the bank, get some used chapter books from Goodwill (99 cents each!) and go to HR so I can get my ID badge and sign up for insurance. Someone who works there recognized S from daycare and she asks me if I want to schedule a playdate sometime. I told her sure and I would get back to her. ???WHEN??? But it was nice of her!
After these errands, finally I drove S to the zoo, couldn't find parking but I park at the very top in a nearby park and walk a loooong way to the zoo. (good exercise, right?) Uphill on the way back, too!
Once we arrive, S has a blast walking along the windows and banging them. Don't worry--one was just water for the otters, another was a school of salmon, and another was the elephants.
I decided to buy some junk food but was proud of myself for only eating part of everything...sure, it was a waste of money but this is how I keep weight OFF. Indulge a little, ESPECIALLY when you have a craving! (sharing with another is best if someone is there)
And S falls asleep on the way home. He takes a nap until 4 p.m. I use this time to work on a photobook that I ordered online....I am compiling pics of S from newborn to 1 year of age! Without scrapbooking....this is way more my style and still takes effort! (I usually ruin my scrapbook designs, lol!)
He wakes up, eats early dinner, we walk to the park and play, we go to the store, we come home and have a bath, books, and bedtime.
Guess what I didn't do all day? Not the dishes...not the laundry...it all waits for me tomorrow. A big mess of dishes on the counter. Oh well.
I might be PMSing because I really wanted junk food still! So at the store I got some light Dreyers Churned ice cream ( on sale): summer peach pie and mud pie. I managed to only have 3 bites each! Also, I love to eat lime tortilla chips dipped in cottage cheese! Weird, huh? But if you like tortilla chips with sour cream, then you'll dig the cottage cheese! But I had a bunch!
And now I am drinking a Bud light wheat beer...I will let Deschutes and Widmer stick to making wheat ales! BUt it's ok
I might go to sleep in half an hour...watching my recorded Top Chef in bed. Worn out!
CW- It is Windsor's Pilates! It comes in a set but maybe you can find the 20 minute workout on amazon? Let's just hope that I only have one H with an MLC...
Let's just hope that I only have one H with an MLC...
Well, you could marry a 60yr old and should be safe! lol! jk! I know what you mean! I think going thru this once is enough for anyone!
I will have to check the Windsor's Pilates out!
lol CW! Actually, by the time I do get married again,it might be 20 years and a 60 year old would be appropriate! Hope not but I definitely will not be in a rush to get married again.
I do want to have a boyfriend in the next 6 months or so!
Well, last night I woke up around 2 and was kind of chilly. So I thought maybe S was cold, too. I got up to cover him with his blankie and discovered he had thrown up all over! Poor guy. He was curled at the foot of his crib, away from the puke.
Of course I stripped the bed and changed his PJ's. It made sense- the day before he was not eating much. Yet he was in a good mood all day and played just fine! Wonder what that was all about?
Today I spent 7 hours in my classroom! Sorting stuff, setting up the library, cleaning stuff, organizing teaching materials. I am exhausted and don't think I will be working out tonight after all, lol!
whoa. I texted my stbxSIL to see how she is doing and asked if stbxh brought S by to visit his mom... she is visiting out of town. SIL said that he invited his mom to come visit him (at his house?). I texted to see if she would be willing to go...but am waiting to hear back.
I honestly don't know if I could see her or talk to her if she goes.
She replied and said her mom said she was willing to go if that was the only way she could see her son and grandson. SIL said that she was too bitter to go.
She said her mom asked "what would you do if it was your son?"
And I said if it was S, I would tell him that I love him but refused to visit him with the whore. That he could see me separately and bring S. But that I would not condone his selfish destructive choice. I said it would be a short term sacrifice for a long term gain.
Then I said I would always make sure she and her mom would be able to see S, if they couldn't see him.
Hi NM
Hope S is feeling better!
I am torn about H introducing OW to his family...he hasn't to anyone except the kids yet. DIL says she refuses to meet her until the D is final and that SS is not ready to meet her either. I am lucky in that!
I don't want to be the one that gets "in between" the family members. I am glad that you are offering for SIL and MIL to see S...
CW thanks for replying. I am just so hurt is all. I wish more people had balls.
Well, I sold my first craigslist item today! I posted it at 12 and sold at 3! It was S' paknplay...went for $75, purchased for $230!
I posted a few other baby items. If I get nothing in a week then I will lower the prices by $5.
Also, I went to the staff BBQ and brought S. A LOT of work to watch after him and feed him and me and try to talk to grown ups and try to comfort/console him. But I realized that I have been doing it all by myself all this time, so I have it down.
I shared that I was getting a divorce with one other person--it gets easier to share each time, I must admit! But she asked if I was happy or not. I said no, it wasn't my choice. She started to ask about it and I just said "well, I'm not ready to talk about it yet."
Easy peasy.
Going back to work tomorrow- yippee!!!!!!!!!!!!
Welcome back to the workforce NM!!! I hope your day goes well!
I know what you mean about feeling hurt! I am dreading that day that H's family meets the OW!
NM, that sucks about your H asking your MIL to come see your S at his place where OW lives? I agree that she should ask him to bring S over to her house instead. But you know what? unfortunately expecting the ILs to do the right thing is setting yourself up for a disappointment. I used to have a pretty good relationship with my ILs...and overnight they changed favoring STBXW 100%- it was hurtful but I guess it's understandable. At least in your case they try to act neutral?
The BBQ sounds like fun! Have a great work week!
Have a good first day back at work!
Hey NM.
Let's face it. Some things that happen in our live are unpleasant, but it's all in how we use them and view them.
You cannot change your past, but you can change your attitude toward the past.
When I was 22 years old, I was paralyzed for 2 months. I spent a lot of time thinking in my hospital room, and I spent a lot of time reading, meditating, and developing positive imaging and relaxation techniques.
One day when my neurologist was visiting me, he picked up some of the books I was reading and looked at them, and then said, "This is some pretty heady stuff you're reading. What did you do before this happened to you?".
I answered, "I was pipe fitter working on piplelines". My neurologist then said, "I don't imagine too many pipefitters read these kinds of things. You should go back to school and use your talents more wisely".
I didn't go back to school until three years later, but that stuck with me as did the meditation and relaxation techniques and the sense that "if I can survive that, I can survive anything".
Today, when I think back on that time, I think of it as something that happened where I took a long look at who I was and resolved to build a better life and never let the little things bother me much. It changed my life forever, so I am glad it happened.
You can't change the past, but you can change how you look at it, and that can change your future.
Thank you for your comments! I will figure out how to relate to my inlaws somehow.
Wow...am a little overwhelmed with this new change of a new grade and new team and new classroom and new life as a teacher who is a single mom. But it will get better! I know it will.
I really miss S. Last time I saw him was 7:20 this morning (it is 9 p.m. now) and I won't see him until 3 something p.m. tomorrow.
I am supposed to take him to visit my stbxSIL and MIL tomorrow. But I reserve the right to cancel if I feel like it is too much and I just want to be with him all alone.
Told one other person at school on my grade level team about the reason for the divorce...her H left her for an OW 12 years ago. He stayed with her for a few years (married her even) and then left her for his high school sweetheart that he reconnected with on Facebook. Her H had 2 kids with the OW, and those kids became half siblings to my teacher friend's kids.
I guess there are 3 of us at the school who belong to "The Divorced Wives Club."
Something else interesting was that my teacher friend said she is always sure to NOT BE A THREAT to other married women...she only looks at the wives in a couple, she avoids being alone with married men, etc. I feel and think and do the exact thing!! It felt nice to know someone else had the same perspective.
P.S. Timeheals. WOW- I can't believe you were paralyzed for 2 months. I am sure your whole perspective on life must be permanently altered from that experience!
Don't worry- I do not believe in being the victim or staying stuck in a poor me role without changing things. I think it is ok to vent sometimes though and admit "this sucks! Life is hard!" but then reboot and face the next day with a more positive outloook.
It does get easier being a teaching single mom. Sometimes it can get hard, but you really have to set boundaries with work and home so you can spend quality time with S. At some point you will get your new routine down, and it will be like you have been doing this forever.
Enjoy the new school year!
looks like I could be teaching 1st instead of 2nd...I don't mind. I KNOW 1st grade pretty well and wouldnt have to learn a bunch of new curriculum. That would give me more time with S. And to GAL! So I kind of hope it will happen, actually. I just can avoid labeling my classroom with names and not put up any grade specific posters until I find out.
But I won't know for a couple of days.
I picked S up early today and he was sooo happy to see me and of course I felt the same! Then we went to my stbxSIL's house and my stbxMIL was there. We had a pleasant visit (never talked about the elephant). On my way out, SIL said "stbxh is going to visit on Saturday." So I dont know if that means he will visit alone or what!
But S had a rough day, being at daycare since 6:30 am. and he didn't nap well. So he was ready for bed by 6:45 p.m.! At least we got some "quality time" together.
Hi NM! I am sure it will take a little while for S to get into his new routine! It will get better! He is lucky to have you as a Mom!!! Hope you get the 1st grade assignment if that is what you are hoping for!!!! Have a good night!!!
You're right, CW! I guess it is a new routine and it will take a week or so. I need to remember that.
STBXH hasn't said anything about getting the papers together for the divorce paperwork. Guess he isn't in a rush...???
So I checked my horoscope and it was RIGHT ON for the events that transpired today.
If you go through the town, a journey of a few miles may take ages in the traffic. If you cruise round the big road that runs round the outside of town, you may get there more quickly, even though you cover four times the distance. Assuming, of course, that road works are not causing endless delays. And assuming too, that the town is actually crowded. Don't worry about finding the best way from A to B. Relax. There are upsides and downsides to all options today. The right choice will be the one you end up making.
First I talked to some teachers (THE TOWN) and told them that I would be willing to teach 1st grade if they needed me...but since there was no word from the principal, I thought maybe I should just "wait and see" because I could just stay in second grade...and someone else would be moved.
Then I decided that I needed to directly tell the principal (I CRUISED AROUND THE TOWN) that I would be willing because I realized I could find out sooner than later if I go to the source. The funny thing is that she now knows and approves, but can't tell me if she will switch me until they call all 105 students' parents to make sure the students are still showing up. (ROAD WORKS...which can cause delays!) And yes, there were upsides to staying in 2nd but like I said, the upsides to staying in 1st actually are better! I feel confident this is the right decision. (MY INTUITION!)
wow interesting stuff there on the horoscope. I hardly ever check mine...and it's hardly true for me but sometimes it is...kinda like a lotto ticket
Great to hear the principal is onboard with your request to teach the 1st grade class! D6 is starting first grade next week at a new school. I hope she loves it...I know she will
Sorry, not to bore you with school stuff but turns out I am teaching 1st grade AND my principal said I had to switch classrooms!!
So I spent 8-6:30 moving (I had a 40 minute break in there somewhere) and the whole staff helped me move furniture and the stuff. But the new classroom had to be "gutted" so all of that stuff went into the hall. And the stuff from my previous classroom also went into the hall. All mixed together. now I am looking at a long weekend of unpacking, setting up bulletin boards and signs, etc. labeling everything (what I would have completed TODAY but can't until maybe Saturday and Sunday due to unpacking).
BUT I WILL STILL GO TO THE MEETUP on Saturday night. In fact, I might just choose a guy, see if he thinks I am cute, and then make out with him, lol! Sorry, am very stressed and want a break.
I will give a full report on Sunday of how the meetup went. OK going to check threads....
That completely stinks! I understand the frustration, but hopefully once everything is unpacked and set-up 1st grade will be much better for you.
Keep talking about your job! I love it.
I also just moved this year. It SUCKS.
Let us know how the meet up went!
Gatsby- is that why you have way more work than usual? It totally sets us back several days doesn't it?!
Yesterday I woke up with very painful, inflamed arthritis. DUH- I was on my feet for almost 10 hours straight, and doing a lot of grunt work. Of course that will result in some issues when I haven't been doing that kind of work in awhile. So I tossed back the ibuprofen and a few prednisone (only in times of intense inflammation). I was limping all day (feels like your right ankle is sprained) but by mid afternoon, the inflammation was down. People kept asking "are you ok? What happened?" so I had to say "it's arthritis! It will get better." It definitely slowed me down. It started to clear up by 2 p.m. but I had to leave at 3!
I had to go to meetings and then I also wasted an hour making class labels (printer issues) when normally it would take 10 minutes! So I think I really ended up only having 4 hours to do work. Still have to set up desks and chairs and put away 25 bags/boxes of stuff.
I picked up S at 3:30, we went to the DMV to get my car fuel emissions checked and then we went to the pharmacy and picked up a take and bake pizza...got home about 5:30. I spent some quality time playing with him after dinner and he had a bath, then crashed at 7:15! I was only able to read a couple of books to him but he LOVES "5 Little Monkeys Jumping on the Bed" and when I say those words, he bounces and throws his head back (because one fell off and bumped his head!)
Luckily, I have a teacher friend from my mommy group (she is 37.5 weeks pregnant) who is willing to come in today and help with stuff today! I have a looooong list and am so grateful!
I am leaving at 4 p.m. no matter what. Gotta figure out what to wear tonight.
ZOOBREW texted me today- said "Have fun at the ___tonight. Just thinking of you, mi amiga
"
I waited til I was done with my work task and then replied
"hola amigo. Thanks- I'm looking forward to it after being a hard workin' woman all week! I've had thoughts of you, too ;)"
He had to look it up to know what I was doing. He has his kids tonight so he most likely isn't going. I wonder if he remembered that I told him I was going to a meetup, checked it out, and wanted to keep himself in my thoughts! WTH????? any opinions?
If I still meet someone I like I will pounce on it! But I saw this guy from 3 months ago, 51 year old goofball, is going. Luckily my single woman friend J called me earlier to see if I was going and asked if we wanted to go together! phew. I guess if he is direct with me and asks me straight out "do you want to go out sometime" I will need to say "sorry, but I only have friendly feelings for you." Unless there is a nicer way of saying it? I mean I don't want to use some excuse since I AM interested in dating a little. Just only men I am attracted to.
ok and about stbxh. So he said "I heard you went to see SIL and MIL. That was so nice of you!" What could I say? So I said nothing. Then he said "we're headed over there on Saturday."
Today he shows up, ready to take S with him over there. No one was waiting in the car...
I scored one point for being direct with my feelings with MIL (through SIL!)
Busy, busy, busy! That is great NM! Hope your arthritis settled down so you can have fun tonight!
CW- my RA was under control!
Here is how it went:
We arrive to meet a bunch of people outdoors on a patio, and meet a nice woman right away. SHe is from Australia so we enjoy her accent. Well, the 3 of us got some food and sat down at a table with a man and his son! Yep, he brought his 22 year old son with him to a single parent meetup event. (?)
Anyway, we all make polite chit chat and then the man and his son go to have a cigar. The Aussie starts to tell her dating story but then we are told to head inside. Once we got inside, the scene changed and it was very cozy. I did see the 51 year old but he pretended he didn't recognize me. I went up and introduced myself (remember me? just saying hi!) and he said "oh yeah! That was fun wasn't it?" and I said "yes it was! looking forward to seeing what this is all about! Have a good night."
My friend J was into 2 different men. One was completely over the top, mr. giggolo wannabe, going up to every woman practically. He grabbed a tamborine from the band and started dancing with women. (he did grab me by the waist as he walked by but I was not interested even if J didn't like him!)
J said he would be "Mr. Right Now" and then started dancing with another guy, the European. Well, her tactic worked because Mr.Giggolo came right up and started grooving with her. My take was that he was insecure and all about getting validation from EVERY woman. Meanwhile, the European was having fun dancing with her and another brunette. He seemed shy but he liked her. I asked her if she would make a move and she said maybe, but she wants to see if he will send her a greeting through the meetup first.
The other guy was someone from the zoobrew. A smooth, kind, warm, good looking man who was born in the Phillipines (sp). I liked him for her but she said he goes to church and she is atheist. Bummer!
The Aussie met someone and the 2 were chatting. I stopped him as I saw him leaving. I caught him and asked if he liked her and he said yes, but he will be sending her an email/ greeting. He said he didn't ask her out because she was Australian and he wasn't sure if that was culturally appropriate. (WHAT??? Piano- enlighten me here!) I told him she definitely liked him, so he should send her a message for sure! He lit up and seemed happy to hear it. I told her he was going to be contacting her and she was happy. (Is this overstepping my bounds?) J said her body language did not show that she was into him, and Aussie said she didn't want to come on too eager or too strong.
So, no one for me...there were a couple of cuties but they were attached to other women all night, at the other end of the bar. I will find them on meetup and see if they're going to another one soon.
OK off to get some work done!
Sounds like a fun evening. Too bad there was no one for you last night but there's always next time, right?
NM
I seriously think tha we could be best friends if we were 10yrs close in age!! I think you would love my bro! I think he would love too!!!
CW, how old is your brother?
Well I got a good night's sleep- woke up at 5 a.m. to clean my house (partly) and am now about to go into work again.
In a couple of weeks I will be going to start GALing again- more meetups, etc. I hung out with an awesome girl who is 28 but she seems mature or I am immature (lol!). So maybe we could hang sometime. But am really really starting to want male companionship.
NM, when does school officially start for you? Is your classroom all ready? DS starts on Wednesday, I don't think he quite gets it that he's going back to school though.
My brother is 43 so a little older than you!!! He is probably too set in his bachelor life ways!!!
NM, glad to hear you went out even if you didn't find anyone suitable for you. Don't worry there's plenty of fish in the sea. You'll find your guy soon enough! You seem very easy going and most guys would appreciate your up front and honest demeanor.
I can't stop laughing about Mr. Giggolo and your interpretation of why he was acting that way. Guys and girls really are from two different planets. If I see it from your PoV I can totally see how you would think he's needy and needing validation (though a lot people after suddenly being single are...been there done that lol) but from his PoV he was trying to 'not be shy' and 'more outgoing' and 'showing self-confidence' etc that they tell you to do- which honestly is all BS. I believe in being yourself so that the right person finds you. Why be someone you're not, attract someone based on these made up traits which you don't possess. I guess we all learn and do things our own way.
Male companionship, that's fair you've been at this for a while and it's only natural. But are you talking about just a fling or someone special?
Regarding the 28yo girl it's good to have friends you can hang with. BTW is she cute and available? hook a brotha up!!!
Male companionship, I know what you mean! Well, at least I just want a bunch of guys to hang out with. Not necessarily to date. You know, the type that are funny but a little nerdy? Kinda like hanging out with Andy Richter and Conan O'Brien. Those kind of guys... I always got 'in' because WH was in, but it's kind of hard to crack their clique without him!
Male companionship? What's that? [/sarcasm]
GM- NOT ALL meetups are hook ups, but this one totally seemed like it. The hunt was "palpable!"
CW- I do think ALL OF US get set in our ways to some extent as we get older. I am going to try really hard to stay open and flexible like the Aussie chick.
IR-trust me, THAT GUY was completely and obviously insecure! He didn't chat with any men, either! AND .... normally I DO like to make plans and I have lots of quirks! I do not want to settle for a guy who calls me whenever- that is not my long term plan! So I would be more like ask him out, wait for him to ask me out on a 2nd date, then maybe a 3rd, then I would ask him out like "let me know if you want to do something next week! Give me a call to figure out a time." And then he would need to call me. If a week went by and I didn't hear from him, I WOULD MOVE ON!
Male companionship as in a boyfriend. Not a fling. My friend IS very pretty and cute, but is in the process of losing weight. SHe has lots of tattoos and is a CRACK UP and a dare devil and a devoted mom.
Gatsby- I love those guys! Yeah..for me it has now been 17 months of separation from stbxh. I was not having any desire for men until this summer (14 months separated?).
Well tomorrow is the first day of school. I had another friend help me to get set up in the room. It is all ready! I have my plans all typed out, the pencils all sharpened, the name tags all ready to go with kids' names on them. Everything is neat and tidy, and it will last a day! Wish me luck- I always get butterflies.
Montana (my nickname for my 28 year old friend) and I are going to a karaoke night at a pub NEXT Tuesday night. It will be an experiment- I will stay out until 11 and go to bed at 11:30. Obviously stbxh has S so I can sleep in a little bit- til 6:45? as long as I get to work by 8!
Oh and there are 3 pics of me posted under the meetup event. I mean I am with Montana and J or with Montana. Wonder if zoobrew will see them? One is the 3 of us standing in front of these REALLY TALL (like 6'4+) men- and all we did was go up and say "hi, how's it going?" and then got our picture taken by someone. But zoobrew doesn't know if I hung out with them or not, lol!
Have a great first day tomorrow!
Enjoy the first day of school! I am a little jealous because I am starting my third full week.
Thanks Mystik and Awest! So it went okay...I definitely forgot some things that are basic (I block out a lot of the first week for my clueless babes to be honest) but then instinct kicked in.
I also checked my email and saw there were pictures posted from the meetup on Saturday night. Holy crap- there were pics of me and my gals with 2 men I didn't know, a pic of me taking a "shot" (large plastic syringe w/ some concoction) and I forgot about it! I didn't block it out completely but the point is that I had way too much to drink that was intensified by my anti-d's. SO DUMB! Obviously I haven't done that kind of drinking in a long time and not while on the anti-d's. I wonder if zoobrew saw them. Oh well- mostly I am just aware now that a couple of drinks is my limit when going out- not 5!!! Just confessing on here. Luckily J drove me home so I didn't have to worry about driving but still....LESSON LEARNED.
So that's all to update.
a different confession...due to the fact that I have one divorced friend outside of my meetup group and family(who is 46...divorced 7years now)I feel like an odd ball among my friends and coworkers. Like there is something about marriage and relationships that I just don't "get."
Hey newmama...
I am glad your school year is off and running! Even with a change of gates!
I know what you mean about feeling the oddball! We are relegated to a weird nowhere land or have we put ourselves there?
I feel like an odd ball among my friends and coworkers. Like there is something about marriage and relationships that I just don't "get."
YOU did not fail at marriage - your WAS did. In fact, you probably understand WAY more about relationships than the average Joe, given what you've been through.
Don't allow yourself to feel like an outsider. You've done nothing wrong.
NM - I completely understand what you mean about feeling like the oddball. I have one D'd friend whose D was final in July, but otherwise there is no one. All my close friends and family are married with kids. Many times someone will say "all us couples should..." and then they look at me and say of course you are invited too. Nothing mean, but we are different.
Glad things went well of your first day back. I really think teaching is like riding a bike and now that you have a child, I think it helps even more.
I agree with the others on feeling like the odd one out when it comes to relationships. How did we end up single when everyone we know is still paired up?
I guess I take my status like it is one of those things where it had to happen to someone. Like some people get cancer, some get hit by a car, some have lots of family members die.
OK that is really just negative. But seriously- that is how I am able to accept this situation!
The weird thing is how I am doing "fine." Notice I didn't say TERRIFIC or BETTER THAN EVER. But it's like this is me, the divorced first grade teacher with a 14 month old son, whose dad left her for another woman. I am living the way I did before I was married, but now I have a son, am jaded about "happily ever after" and I have more money (lol!)
Your husband's choices do not define you. They define him. You are Newmama. You are amazing. You are raising a child ALONE. How capable you are!
It is weird being the odd one out... this year seems to be the year of weddings and babies. It makes me uncomfortable, my new role as a separated new mum. But then I think.. No, I am Piano. I am not a label. I have love in my life. I know that behind those wedding bands and picket fences there are problems. I am separated NOW, but in time I won't be...and in time, some of these friends in couples will be separated. It's just accepting that everyone has problems, we just don't all face them at the same time.
Also, thinking of you as you start work again!
thanks for your support, ladies!
ughhh. had a BAD day!
1) apparently I really ticked off some parents and they tattled on me to the principal!! What happened was that they stuck their head in the door just as we were all trying to line up for lunch, get calm and orderly, get lunch boxes, and stay quiet enough to walk down the hall. We weren't there yet...kids were horsing around and my little disruptive kid was weaving in and out of line. WHile this is happening, a mom opens the door and her daughter comes running out of line to see her. All the kids go "is that your mom? hey look, it's her mom!" We were already running late for lunch (you can't get too behind because it messes up other grades).
SO the mom says "we just want to peek in!" I say in a friendly way "oh, okay! are you picking her up for lunch?" (parents do that sometimes) "no, just "peeking in to see her!" and the class is getting all crazy while I am trying to figure out what the mom needs. So I said "ok, well I'm sorry but it's not the best time- it's kind of interrupting right now! But I can definitely talk to you later!" and I said it in a very friendly way. NOW I TOTALLY did not mean to say "interrupt"--it just came out! I could have just said "oh, well I can talk to you later!" I didn't think much of it other than regretting saying "interrupt."
so then the principal comes in to see me during prep and tells me that the mom felt pushed out of my room and she was already skeptical of public schools and the mom said she has the right to see what her daughter is doing and that her daughter told her that I have been brushing her aside (yeah, like 6 year olds talk like that?)...
baloney!! what's funny is that I moved her desk to the front yesterday(before I knew about her parents) because I could tell this girl has a mind of her own (my mommy says this, and I get to do this, and I don't want to do it like that...etc.) so I knew she needs a little extra attention and once she likes me she will listen to anything I tell her. (some kids don't care about the rules- they just care about the relationships. And she has never been to school before or daycare so she isn't used to some adult other than her parents telling her what to do!)
LUCKILY my principal told me she had my back, that she didn't think for a second that I was super rude and neglecting her daughter. SHe told the mom to talk to me directly (and told me to contact the parents) and assured her that it was probably just a bad timing issue. AND IT WAS! So I emailed the parents, apologizing for the misunderstanding and assured them that they can come in whenever, but the worst time is around lunch.
AND then
2)I have a student who was in a developmental kindergarten last year....why he is in a regular ed classroom the following year is beyond me! But the issue is that he does things like push his desk all around the room, hit kids with books or throw pencils at them or just slaps them, spits on kids, comes up to the ELMO projector and waves his hand, and cries when he doesn't get his way.
UMMM...I do have a whole class that I need to tend to and get to know! I know he is a sweet boy but struggles too much. HE LOVES books (can't read) and art. So what happens, folks, is when your child is in a class with a kid who is majorly disruptive, your child will not get as good of an education unless that child has some assistance of some kind. It is the truth.I wish more parents would complain so the kid can get help. Any kid with severe learning and behavior issues deserves compassion and adult assistance. I truly enjoy working with this little boy 1:1 (he is attentive and sweet) but it is when he is supposed to be at his desk or joining us on the carpet or lining up when it is a problem. (80% of the day)
I spend soooo much time redirecting that child, interrupting everyone else's learning, starting over, helping that ONE child. It isn't fair to my other students and it isn't fair to HIM! He is thrown into a class without support and it is too hard for him, let alone that it takes away from others' right to a FREE and APPROPRIATE PUBLIC EDUCATION.
3) the kids were "done" by lunch time and they certainly were "done" at 1:00. 2 more hours to go! I had 6 or 8 kids who were eager to learn! They were attentive. Too bad the other 14 were checked out. How could 6 year olds make a grown woman want to cry??? But this is why I was so eager to teach 2nd grade. It's okay. It will get better in a couple of months.
4)The rest of my team wants to start reading groups ASAP and I haven't been able to assess all of my students yet because of that disruptive kid!!!
so I have requested assistance and I will be insistent on at least 45 minutes of some help per day for 4 days so I can try to figure out what my kids can read!
5) I have to go in again this weekend.
SO life will get better. But it sucks right now!
That just about killed me reading that and thinking of myself in your position. I probably would have the trouble makers (including the parent snitchers) down doing pushups or spending a night in a box (ala Cool Hand Luke). You have my full respect. Being a teacher, you must be able to both control and teach the children in a calm manner, and also, deal with some difficult parents using some political skills. It also must take incredible patience and leadership skills.
I hope that you can have the special needs kid moved to a different environment with a lower teacher to student ratio that will serve better as it really is not fair to you and the rest of the students. It is probably the primary reason I dropped out of boy scouts before making Eagle - our troop had a future inmate as one of the scouts and the scoutmaster spent all his time dealing with the jerk. The jerk should have been kicked out of the boy scouts.
NM - I hear you!!!!!! By high school all the the students (excluding severe disabilities) are all put in the same class. Because I teach the lowest level physical science, which the state demands all kids take one physical science, I get them all. I get kids with major emotional problems. Kids with extreme ADHD, and the worst part is they are all 15-19 years old so sometimes I just can't stop them. One year I had a junior throw a desk in my room. Last year I had a class of 6 gang member (all in the same gang) who have been all in and out of jail with their ring leader in my class. The ring leader was a senior who was not going to graduate and so he just created problems. NO one learned anything in that class because all I could do is discipline.
I completely understand! In this country right now, teachers are to blame for not teaching their children, but how can you teach all the kids when there are ones that won't even stop for a second so you can focus on another student. It is so hard, but it will get better! With the disruptive child, document everything and keep close contact with your principal because maybe the student can be moved to a special classroom or you can have an paraprofessional work with this student. (if your school has the money for that...ours lost money so all of my paras who helped with my students who are new language learners are gone so those students are struggling).
With the parents, just get them on your side...and I hate parents who are like that. It is best if they only come if they are taking their child (especially at that age) because the child gets thrown off by a different routine. It is the parents who miss the child and the child needs to learn to be away from the parents if public school will work, and if they expect their child to grow and move out one day.
Definitely hear you and I hope it all gets better very quickly.
NM, that sounds tough. Just managing your own kids is hard enough- trying to take care of others' and give them education is a huge responsibility that requires control, fairness, compassion and patience...lots of it. You have a tough job but sounds like you know just how to manage it...even if some parents will never understand it from your pov.
Thanks you guys! But I TOTALLY MESSED UP AGAIN with the same parents! My carefully worded email that I put so much thought into referred to the student BY THE WRONG NAME! TWICE! I totally know her name- it was really strange that I called her by a different one! It wasn't even another student in my class.
So the dad emailed back and said thanks for the comments about OTHER NAME but I would really like to know about my daughter.
Now, I couldn't tell if he was angry or joking. I replied and just said "Oh no! I can't believe I used a different name! I was completely talking about your daughter and definitely know her name! I have no idea why I called her by the other name. I hope you know that I meant your daughter and it was a mistake." (something like that)
and you know what? I am OVER it! That's right- I apologized, I was a dork and somehow used the wrong name TWICE but it was 100% truthfully a strange accident. I was so fried on Friday (hey- get it?) that I shouldn't have emailed. I did email my principal to give her a head's up. I really just need those parents to come in and observe so they can relax!
It happens!! I replied to a friend asking about my exH, and I remarked how he was irritating me. Except, somehow, I actually sent the reply to exH!
He had texted me in between texts from my friend so I got it messed up. Ooops! He replied, "Try sending that to the right person next time"... Life goes on!
Sorry that Friday was such a disaster for you. It can only get better from here.
You are right- it has to get better, lol!
Nothing new to report except that stbxh seems to be STALLING on the yard work and it makes me think there could be a reason for it. We can't sell the house if it looks like crap, right? I don't know. it just isn't his personality to put things off.
He visited his mom a second time this week...after work....alone with S!
He said he was going to call some people to give an estimate for the roof so he would arrange it for the afternoons. Let's see.
And still nothing more on the D? Very odd. You would think by now you would have heard something?
Hi NM--
Just wanted to wish you a good week at work!
I have to admit, I can't remember to what extent the yardwork is stressing you out - I hope not too much! Is it mostly that WH isn't following through on his end of the deal?
Hi NM!
Wow! Sounds like a stressful week at work but I am sure it takes awhile to get the students and yourself into the new routine! Does your classroom have a teacher's aide? Can you request one? In our school, each child who may require extra attention has their own para/aide if they are in a regular classroom.
Sorry about the miscommunication with the parents...hopefully it will all smooth over and they will relax!!!
That is interesting that your stbx is procrastinating on the yard stuff especially if that is not normal behaviour for him!!!
Hope you have a better week!!!
Those parents are ridiculous, NM. Except if the dad was joking, then he's cool. But I wonder.
I'm glad you're asking for help from your principal. It is really hard with those kids, even in the small group pull-out like I have!
But I definitely know that it's much more manageable in a small group than in a large group.
Keep updating!
THanks for the comments, ladies!
TODAY WAS MUCH MUCH BETTER! Even my disruptive guy only stepped on a kid's hands, ran up to the projector once, and he shouted out at the carpet or grabbed the pointer. He actually stayed at his desk most of the time(I separated him and told him he could earn his way back to a group; I gave him a point sheet and praise, and I tried to give him easier expectations for work like "write your name. then count the squares. How many? that's right! now color the squares." For his writing assignment, he drew Woody from Toy Story 3 (actually a very good drawing!) and said "me saw movie! Woody! mommy and me!"...very low, poor guy.)
I am on it with the support- I have requested a teacher support meeting, notified the counselor, student supervisor, and ESL teacher (he has ESL AND and IEP for communication (separate issue)) and signed up to get a "foster grandparent" in the classroom! sigh!
My little girl with the paranoid parents was actually quite a joy and pleasure to help today. She IS very cute! She followed directions without arguing or saying "no thanks- i'd rather color." (lol! they are funny, aren't they?)and she did her work!
let's see- tomorrow i have a parent who wants to meet me to see if his daughter can skip grades. She had 1st grade in India. She turns 7 in March. Well, I asked my principal and she said it is up to me. what??? weird protocol! I am to see if she has met first grade objectives and then reflect on her maturity and make a decision. I think we meet with principal at that point.
And another mom came up to me after school to meet with me in person on Thursday. Wow, it really has been a few years since I had so many involved parents this early in the year! On the other hand, that class had very sweet kids and this class is sweet. Hmmm....correlation between involved parents and caring kids?
G- I have had very tough small groups as well as a SPED teacher...so don't discount your experience! I just blocked out that memory until you mentioned it, lol! Sometimes the kids seem more relaxed in a small group which isn't always a good thing. And I remember when I had to have 1:2 in the resource room for one kid, even though we didn't have the "woman" power.
GM- thanks for the perspective on being the single woman among my coworkers and friends! And how interesting- I can relate to the behavior issues from your patients even though I teach 6 year olds!
Awest- guess it is kind of interesting that stbxh hasn't brought up divorce. I don't know what to think about that.
CW- yep, the yardwork has to mean something!
Mrs A- the yardwork isn't stressing me out- it is just funny/frustrating that stbxh has made so many empty promises since spring and now it is fall...
TODAY S came down with a fever (daycare exposure), so I texted stbxh. He said he would take tomorrow off because he knows how hard it is for me to miss work on the 2nd week of school. Tuesdays are his super important meeting days! I said thank you of course. I don't think this means anything other than he is being fair. But I do appreciate it!
Glad H helped out and also that your week is starting out better.
Glad H stepped up to the plate and took DS so you didn't have to miss work so early in the school year.
thanks...wishful thinking! I don't mean for my thread to turn into a vent about work. But in a nutshell, I called the office for relief from THE BOY twice today and my boy with Autism was overstimulated, making lots of noises, roaming the class (during transitions) and checking kids' desks for...something! I have a teacher meeting tomorrow to discuss options for THE BOY or brainstorm next steps.
And I am not going to go to Karaoke night tonight. The kitchen is a mess, I don't need the calories from pizza and beer, I AM EXHAUSTED and wouldn't mind catching up on the shows I recorded. (Top Chef, Oprah, 20/20, Dating in The Dark)But I need to do something fun on Saturday night!!!
NewMama - I'm EXHAUSTED for you just reading your thread! I used to have that kind of patience with kids - taught beginning ballet for years to 5 & 6 year olds - but no more. Hope they move THE BOY for you - it's not fair to you, him, or the other kids to have to spend so much time with him.
That's nice that your stbxh took off work to help to stay with your sick son. The last time my WH did that was in 1999, and he gave me hell about it. In fact, when I told WH that I had a problem yesterday, that I needed to take S 7 to karate from 5-6, go to a parent meeting at 6:30 and pick up D 13 from dance at 7 - and I couldn't do it all - he said, "Yep, that's a problem." Then he went to his regular Tuesday night riding lesson without a second thought.
At least your stbx is ensuring a future with his son. Mine will be old and gray and wondering why his kids never call...
NM - don't worry about venting about work. That is the point of this thread. A place to vent, and it seems like there are many teachers on here so you have a lot of support. I hope the meeting goes well with the principal about the boy. He definitely needs a 1 on 1 aid that will help him stay focused. He may have days that are good, and maybe by the end of last year, he was great, but obviously with the summer break, he needs a lot of 1 on 1 attention to get back into the routine of school.
With the house, believe me, there are days when my kitchen looks like what you described. Most of the time I go straight home after work and when S goes to bed clean-up a little, but that can't always happen especially if I plan to do something else.
I hope everything settles down a bit soon, at least so you can rest. I know for us we have 6 wks before our next day off so if it is the same for you, I hope everything goes well for the next few weeks and then you can have some time to relax.
Sorry work has been stressing you out. I hear you on just needing a night in to pull the house back together and unwind a bit.
How is Dating in the DArk? Is it actually good?
I'm getting to a better place with my two boys, but still transitions are rough! (Just like you experienced!) I empathize fully.
lol- Dating in the Dark is kinda silly! I like to watch it because I like watching reality dating shows. It is just pure entertainment... it is interesting to hear how picky people are about looks or see people assume that others won't find them attractive and the reverse happens.
OK work- the meeting was OK. Apparently there are 2 things going on. ONE we need to address his behavior and get that under control (DUH!). So we added "visual schedule" and "breaks" with book on tape or computer (am still waiting for the computer guy to hook mine up)...I am going to find a piecer of a tape player because I bet he will break it somehow. But I do agree he needs breaks! How about breaks where he goes to the resource room for 30 minutes to get some INSTRUCTION? (My SPED teacher is a lazy SOB and it makes me want to be the SPED teacher for our building!) It is so not fair to my little guy! My class is waaaay too hard and overwhelming for him!
His mom told me this morning (and she speaks Spanish)that he was in a special class last year and that she thought he would still be doing it this year.
I am waiting for our translator to call her and then set up a meeting (I asked her last weekend and saw her in person and she didn't seem too concerned). I just emailed her again to see if she has been able to get hold of her yet. I expressed the urgency and gave her the name and number. GRRR!!! I don't care if she thinks I am a bitch. But i did say "I know you must be busy and I really appreciate it"
So another thing I said at the meeting was that I was an IEP team member and I would like to set up an IEP review. The school psych chuckled at me. What? Someone said they wanted to do an FBA. what will that do? how will that get him a more appropriate placement? I said " i can tell you the function of his behavior- it's work avoidance and peer attention." they chuckled again. ??? I said "I am serious!" and I wanted to tell them about the researchers from my college days who said that the teacher's first guess on the function of behavior had an 80% accuracy rate when they did a full on FBA. Sigh.
I said "in my opinion, he has the wrong placement. I can't believe they would take a kid straight from a self contained classroom with a 1:3 ratio and plop him into a regular ed classroom!" Without something in the middle like an aide, or part time pull out services...what the hell????
Oh and 1:1 aides are extrememly expensive in the district's eyes and they rarely ever give them out. It sucks because if the mom really knew her rights, she could get an advocate and then the district would be kissing her butt!
yep. hard day again. parts were good. I had some kids say cute things- I was reading "The Teacher from the Black Lagoon" and a little girl asked why the boy WANTED to go to the principal's office. I said "well how do you think he feels being in the classroom with that dragon for a teacher?" and another girl said "he wants to leave because the teacher is killing all of the kids!"
S' fever is lower. It is 100 now so I hope he will be back to his old self tomorrow! Stbxh has to go back to work tomorrow but he will be getting S overnight because I have a back to school night presentation that I need to give to my kids' parents.
My SIL said she would watch him if he was still sick tomorrow.
It is good that you have some support when it comes to S being sick. It is a sickness or is it teething? I was just wondering because I know S started getting his molars a little after 1.
With the child, it is so important that you do document everything, which I am sure that you do. Also are you a part of your teacher union? Is there something they could do? This child honestly needs help because otherwise he is going to be "left behind", which is what we are trying to avoid as teachers and as a country. How can the school system not give you any support when he needs the help. Giving him breaks is not going to help him academically. Is he getting any support for the english aspect? I would think he would get some direct support for that as well.
Sorry things are going so poorly. Hopefully you can work with the mom at some point and others in the school will help. I know it is a little sneaky, but at least in IN, if a parent asks for the IEP review, it has to be given...put a bug in the mom's ear?
Hi Awest, don't worry- I am all over it! I do document. Also, I was a SPED teacher for 5 years but this school district is not so good (for SPED) compared to the other 2 where I worked. I do think he will be getting help but we have to do some of this other stuff first. He does get ESL. I will be talking to the mom about it when the translator sets up our meeting. Thanks for your support though! And I know we don't want kids to get left behind--but this country also doesn't value education enough to fund it. We need more people in our schools to have a low enough student-teacher ratio.
Every teacher needs an assistant for at least a couple of hours. I think that would really help us to meet the kids' needs. Also, money is spent on very expensive curriculum that teachers do not necessarily follow because they have other methods that teach the same skills.CURRICULUM DOES NOT TEACH KIDS- PEOPLE TEACH KIDS! OK I really need to chill out. Must have some misplaced anger for some reason...
I hear you and completely understand where you are coming from
Hope the translator contacts you soon. Sounds like you're doing the best you can but keep getting roadblocked.
does God think I am Atlantis! wtf- I spent 2 hours typing sub plans (S is still SICK!) and tried to sign up for a sub but forgot my pin number. no one is up at 11:30 p.m. I just hope they get my emails in time. crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
got it covered. Phew!
THE BOY was suspended yesterday for punching 2 kids in the face because they wouldn't give him the books he wanted. (he is not a tough and violent boy, he is just mentally 2 or 3 years old, I swear.)
I think the administration is getting the picture. The translator was AWESOME because when I met with the mom at the end of the day, she came right out and said if she was expecting him to have a 1:1 (at her old school district, they were going to try to have him go to a first grade classroom with an assistant) then she needs to tell the principal and the special ed department.SHe said it would help her get through the process MUCH faster!!!!! heck yeah! It is true, parents have power, Parents have power.
I did express how much we do care about THE BOY and even though he is highly disruptive, we can see that he doesn't MEAN to do these things- that he seems to not understand. He came from a class of 9 kids with 3 teachers (1 teacher and 2 assts..1:3 ratio) for 3 hours. Then gets to a class of 22 with 1 teacher 1:22 ratio)at a school day for almost 7 hours!
I can't wait to give the translator a hug and a kiss when I can! (lol)
So the other thing was that I had back to school night and only 8 parents showed up! out of 22. And the parents who complained about me to the principal? No show. Of course. There are parents who are all bark and no bite.
Good news is that I have 4 parents who wanted to volunteer.
Now I have to do something fun this weekend...need a break and a life! and need to get back into exercising for the stress relief.
Hi NM
Hope S gets better soon! Sounds like all is going to be well at work!
Have a great weekend!
CW---
S had an ear infection-- do you know how many times it seems that I have taken him in and he didn't have one?! He had to have ear wax removed and was screaming and writhing as she did it. I knew then that he had an ear infection but his dr. explained she needed to see his ear drum "to make sure." I know she was doing her job but it made me cry as I had to hold him down while he bucked his body and screamed bloody murder. I asked for a break and got up to wash his face with a cool cloth before she continued. She told me that it was normal for me to feel upset and I said "oh, I know!" (and I don't give a crap if it wasn't)
He has been sleeping now for 2 hours! poor fella. I know he will feel better by Monday because he has some amoxicillin.
as for work- Well, at least the ball is rolling!The reality is that I will be working at least 6 days a week until November, after conferences. I think things will slow down at that time.
My sub called me and said in 35 years of teaching,including at a similar school, she never had a student like THE BOY! She said I had some other 'doozies' as well- but I guess compared to THE BOY I wasn't aware!
How funny because I heard the same thing from 4 or 5 subs the year I was pregnant! No exaggeration. In that class, I had 5 kids on behavior plans.We still managed to learn and have fun (although not as much because they got wild) Again, this class is full of angels in my eyes!
Also, the principal wants THE BOY to have half days starting Monday. Uh huh! Oh yeah! Victory Dance! We also have a SPED meeting set for 9/27.
I replied to her email and thanked her for being proactive as we figure out how to help THE BOY. I added that I have a student who has Autism and his parents are "involved." His mom wants to volunteer and I want to be able to show her that I am consistently following the legal accommodations and modifications outlined in the IEP. I explained to my principal that at this time, most of my energy and focus has been on UZ due to triage, although I am doing my best (truthfully!) Hope that sinks in, a little, like DUH we have OTHER KIDS that need to learn, here! I really do like my principal and she is supportive. I will be very impressed if she gets this case to move along quickly.
ok I promise to post something upbeat and positive before the weekend is over.
Glad that things with THE BOY are finally starting to be worked on. It is hard when the kids don't understand and the adults (not you, the ones who were roadblocking you) aren't there to see so they don't get it.
ok am going to go to night golfing next friday night! I WILL GO. I WILL GO. And I will have fun! tomorrow night- will go to a movie.
Hi NM! So sorry about S's ear infection! Are they talking tubes yet?
Anything happening with your D?
CW- S has only had one other ear infection about 6 months ago. I don't think they would be thinking about tubes at this point...but if they ever wanted to I would do it in a second! I hear it takes a very short time and does wonders for kids, especially for speech.
Nothing yet about the D. But I have been through silent stretches before, got my hopes up, and then...WHAM!!!!!!!
My S got tubes almost a year ago and it has been wonderful, however he had ear infections every time he got a tooth in so almost every other month for a year.
Hope S is feeling better and this week goes better at work!
OK fun stuff-- just ordered the Android 2 smartphone! can't wait!
I didn't see a movie last night- it was pouring rain and I wanted to watch my Top Chef finale show instead. I fell asleep at 9:30 again! Got to sleep in until 7 though.
I am in a pretty good mood today. I feel good, like stress has been lifted for some reason. Lighter, more care free.
Am doing laundry, did the dishes, picked up S' toys and next is mopping. I am only going to do it every week or so even though it needs it daily. The reason being is why?? It's me and S. I sweep daily (or use the quick vac). He messes it up. I am a working mom--relax, play with S or clean? So cleaning is not my top priority!
oh yeah-- i had a dream that stbxh said to me when he was picking up S: "if you need, I can stay a little longer when I drop off S tomorrow so you can clean..."
And I really had to sit there and think "was that a dream?" because yesterday I was saying how S was a little tornado and it's hard to keep up. He said "I know it is." (no the F you don't!!!!!!!! I AM a single mom, no live in boyfriend!!!!!!!!)
My Pisces horoscope:
Your Week Ahead: This week you can expect to spend much time tending to the needs of others. No change there then, you may think.
(SO FUNNY- I read that first line and said "what else is new?" before reading the second line!)
But there should be at least one difference. Though you already spend a great deal of your life being self-sacrificing, you normally find this goes all but unnoticed.Your efforts now, though, are being much appreciated and look set soon, to be richly rewarded. You mean much more to someone than you realise. You are also on the verge of attaining great power. It is as if many good deeds done on past occasions are about to pay off. Be as kind as you can this week. The cosmos is about to be kind to you!
(So does this mean relief from my work load? And what will be my "great power?" Maybe I will get to make an influential decision regarding THE BOY?)
Your Week Ahead Part Two - Love Focus:
Navel-gazing is not as easy as it sounds. Unless you are a highly advanced practitioner of yoga, you will find it almost impossible. If you have to resort to a mirror over your belly button, you are probably exerting too much effort for a passive preoccupation. It is just as hard to look deep inside yourself. How are you supposed to do that? Yet if you cannot see into your own soul, how can you look into the hearts of others? You don't know as much as you think you know now. But you know enough to see where to start looking for the answers! Be kind to yourself. Be kind to others too. And the cosmos will be kind to you!
(sounds like a bunch of blah blah blah...I better be nice this week to people. And what is it that I don't know as much as I think right now? Is it about stbxh?)
how funny..stbxh dropped S off. then asked if I wanted him to clean out the gutters since it rained so bad yesterday. He also cut the bush up in the front yard.
I think it's "funny" because he ended up staying longer like my dream...kind of.
And then before he left he said "well, I'll see you....well I guess I'll see S on Tuesday!"
because now I only see him Thurs evenings when he drops S off and then weekends when we exchange S. 3x per week.
Hey NM, just catching up...sounds like it's been busy at work with the boy and stuff. But glad to see you're feeling better today. I hear you on the house chores, it's non-stop. I love my Roomba...next best thing to a live in girlfriend
Horoscopes are interesting, sometimes they seem so believable with how things are progressing in life and sometimes they couldn't be further from the reality lol I didn't realize you're a Pisces. I'm a Capricorn <-- very objective
You have a very good point, gabbysmom. We don't get this time back so every day when I'm stressing about laundry or dishes I remind myself that DS won't be six forever and this day won't come around again.
big hugs newmama. Nice to see that you are GAL with work and activities. It's a big transition but it sounds like it's going well.
Hi FM! Thanks for stopping by. Nothing exciting here. I was perusing match last weekend but got cold feet! What the heck is that all about? Obviously I didn't have cold feet this summer.
For dinner for S and I, I boiled up some tomato-basil ravioli, tossed it in olive oil and parmesan. Then took some garlic bread from the freezer and heated it up, melted some cheddar cheese on it and added some chopped tomatoes (after it came out of the toaster oven). Oh and we had some grapes, too!
Let's see- yesterday I took S with me into school and he had a blast running up and down the halls. Then he entertained himself pulling tissue after tissue out from a box of kleenex while I stuffed homework folders!
If anyone saw Oprah today...let's not give up on public schools. And there are teachers who suck but most of us (plenty here on DB forum) love our job and work hard to improve our craft to help our kids be all they can be!
Heck, even today, THE BOY had a pretty good morning! Only bawled at the top of his lungs twice, didn't hit anyone, sat criss cross on the carpet and even raised his hand to fix a mistake on the morning message (I asked "him" if he could write the letter A in the word Dear!) He also stayed at his desk to do work- I gave him kindergarten assignments. We played some reading games and he liked them. He earned lots of points and he went home early like planned!
Hey, my XW is a gym teacher at a pre-school. It is a part time job, but it gives her time to pick the kids up after school. She previously was an assistant pre-school teacher at the same school.
She got a bit of an addiction to going out clubbing with a co-worker teacher on the weekends. This led to guys hitting on her in the bars and ultimately to the end of our marriage. She later mentioned in a letter of apology to me that it was a "nightmare" that had entered her life. C'est la vie.
yikes...sorry to hear that about your exW Kerry. So she was able to acknowledge her clubbing behavior was a mistake, eh?
OK well my Friday night night golfing got cancelled. I really hope I can get myself to see a movie! And maybe look up some gents on the internet.
It was a good day at work.I think I can breathe tomorrow.
We are supposed to discuss "families" as part of social studies. Someone checked out books from the library for us but they are not about the 50% of families of today. Even before I was going through a divorce, I wanted to acknowledge that we can have more than one family and that a dad and a child is a family as well as a grandma who is raising 2 kids, etc.
And
John Stewart is super smart and funny, isn't he? (random)
AAAH, Oprah! I haven't finished reading your post yet, but my principal and a few teachers were in the audience!!
Oh yeah John Stewart's cool.
Okey dokey...this is one of those periods where I am just existing. BUT S was able to point to his tummy, head, foot, and nose when I asked him last night!!!! I have been waiting for this milestone because it is definitely proof that our babies are learning our language! I ALMOST texted stbxh to tell him but then I thought..."screw it. He wasn't here to witness it. HIS choice." However, I did tell him when he dropped S off tonight and he looked proud. he said "he's so smart!" Now I love my boy and want him to be smart, but I also know this is just a normal milestone! So I was more "relieved" that he was hitting his milestones....I just want him to not struggle in life and average is where I am aiming...heck if he is below average, I will know how to help him, too. Just don't want to be a parent "in denial" because I have seen parents delay getting help for their kids due to denial. Of course I understand why! I am not saying they are bad parents! Just that after I have worked with special needs kids,I see the huge gains they make when they seek help early on. I promised myself to be "wide awake" about my child's ability. If he shows signs of struggling, etc. I will be proactive!
THE BOY got suspended again today...3rd time in 4 weeks. I guess when we were going back to our desks from the carpet area, he pulled another kid's hair. I didn't see it. Now before you think "what? why would he get suspended for that, even though it is wrong!" ( I thought that when I found out) The victim was at the carpet, sobbing so hard that he couldn't tell me what happened. I heard "hair..." (and he speaks another language). I just know the difference between overreacting vs. being genuinely shaken up and hurt. I called the office and the secretary came to get him (the secretaries often come and get the kids because the principal, counselor and student supervisor are dealing with other crises in the building). Well, I sent the victim to the office to get TLC and later found out that THE BOY was suspended due to the purposeful, aggressive nature of the act. He also admitted to it, was not remorseful.
I felt kind of bad that I didn't anticipate that he would do it so that I could stay by him until all kids went back to their desks! (transition times are when kids often get into trouble) I will do that tomorrow, obviously. I ALSO felt bad for the mom, because she had to leave work to come and get him. I think the administration is creating a paper trail to show this is environment is not suitable for him. I have a meeting on Monday.
I am crossing my fingers and hoping that I won't have to work this weekend... I was so SPENT today at 3:15 that I just wanted to veg out with a margarita (or 3) in my PJs. Instead I stayed at work a little longer to do some odds and ends and prepare for (our) presentation next Tuesday. I chatted with another teacher about this and that...we were all FRIED!!!
Here is something- she doesn't GET it that I can't go to Happy Hours on Fridays usually. I swear, she is thinking "just get a babysitter" but she doesn't realize that I don't get quality time with my son when I am working and I have to do the rest on my own! It is just a different world. She did say her H was going on a work trip for 2 weeks so she would be a single mom to her 10 month old. I said "it is so hard!" she said "yeah! I have to come home, make dinner for him AND me, and give him a bath and put him to bed...all by myself! but maybe I can stay with my mom and dad for those 2 weeks so they can help."
It is definitely a different world for a single parent. Many times I get the same thing from my friends about getting a baby sitter, but being that I worked at a daycare through college and not mostly work with the low level kids whose parents did or do that to them, I don't want that for S. I want to spend quality time with S whenever I can. The only nice part for me is that now that H takes S every other weekend (didn't do that the first 16 months we were separated) I get a few hours to myself. Most of the time it is spent cleaning or grocery shopping so I don't ahve to do those chores with S and instead spend time with him, but sometimes I do get some time to myself which is nice.
Take what time you get for you. I know last year I was a very ineffective teacher because I was all about S and my sitch. Now I can tell that I am more effective and partly because I take some time (even if it is a 15 minute bath) for me to re-energize.
Have a good weekend and if need be, figure out what has to be done, and whatever is not immediate...don't do it.
stbxh dropped off S. I asked him about switching the names on bills/ me taking over (he paid when I was home with S).
It seemed pretty simple to do. I kept waiting for him to say
"since we are on the subject, I want you to know that I submitted the D papers" or "you can give me the certificate for the D papers." but he didn't.
I asked him to reprogram the thermostat for me and he did. Phew!
He noticed (on his own) that a lightbulb needed to be changed so he did it. I thanked him (I really could have done it myself but just hadn't gotten around to it and I didn't ask for him to do it- he just did).
He told me he would take out the yard debris to the curb for me.
(ok, thanks but I didn't need it but I don't care that he does it).
And he offered to take S for a few hours tomorrow OR overnight if I needed more time to get stuff done since I didn't get the time due to switching nights. I said sure, thanks..."working with a baby is a whole different world." He quickly said "yeah." and changed the subject!
OH and I didn't even do this on purpose this time--I ordered some bras from VS. They arrived and the package was on the front porch when he dropped off S!!! hahaha
And an old fogie from the single parents group asked me out over email....am trying to find a nice way to say no thanks..."sorry I am looking for someone closer to my age?" or just "thank you for the invitation but I am not interested."
A guy asked me out recently. I was not interested in him. I just said thank you but I am really not ready to date yet. It is a bit of a white lie but I also haven't gone out this past summer. Just an idea.
kat
Hi NM
So, your H has not mentioned anything about the D since he filed?
And, I am always amazed that he still does so much for you around the house!
As for the old fogie...you can always say that you are flattered and end it with either one of those 2 phrases! In the past, I always tried to let them off easy but that always seemed to leave the door open (if you've ever see Dumb and Dumber, when she tells him that she is 99% sure that they don't have a chance and he says something like "so, you are telling me that there is a chance (1%)?" I am not good with movie quotes but I always thought that was funny!!!
Hope you are having a great weekend!!!
just so I know... how old does one have to be to be a fogey?
lol! Jeff, I guess that 20 years older than me counts as an old fogey! Maybe that was harsh but he really is almost 60.
CW- I know...and it is almost 18 months now since stbxh left for OW. ?????????? I think the reason he does a lot around the house is plain old guilt. Cuz he knows what a scumbag he is.
As for the old coger, I think I will say something like
"Thank you for the invite--I am flattered! But honestly, I prefer to date men closer to my age. Take care!" what do you think?
kat- that is a nice way to reject! The only problem is that I see these guys again at different meetups so it can be akward if they see me flirting with someone and I told them that I wasn't ready to date. If it were me being rejected,and I saw the guy flirting with some other woman, I would feel a little insulted like "why didn't you just tell me that you weren't interested?" But it is a good one for those dates on match where odds are that I won't see the guy around town!
speaking of...I am getting the urge to go look on match tonight!
Whew! I'm not a fogey yet!
lol! If I were 40 something I wouldn't think of him as a fogey!
Here is what I said:
Hi, Fogey! I do remember you and your son! Truthfully, I am interested in dating men closer to my age (I am 34) due to my previous dating experiences so far :-) BUT THANK YOU for the invite- it made me feel good! Take care, Newmama.
I hope that wasn't too harsh...
OK and on a totally different subject, I just watched something on Nightline about a female arousal product called Vestra but they aren't allowed to advertise it!
you can have commercials about viagara where men are getting an erection and they show men and women sitting in bathtubs side by side...at any time of the day (right? when kids are awake?)but
Vestra (a product for female arousal--yeah did you know one existed?! ) is trying to advertise on commercials too..but are being rejected 95% time because the networks are saying that they "don't do this category" but yes they DO! DUH!
So the Vestra marketing people have even edited their language in the ad without saying "sex or sexual" and were still rejected because they were not comfortable airing the ad!
Women are not allowed to have sex or be sexual because we are a bunch of sluts if we admit it, huh? I think if you sleep with a married man, have serial one night stands, allow men to come in and out of your home when you have children...yeah that is pretty slutty. AS IT IS FOR MEN who do that!
Why can't women be allowed to "celebrate" their sexual health? We can't talk about female sexual arousal but can say ERECTION
"don't let erectile dysfunction get in the way.."
Was it because Bob Dole came out and said he had ED? (why? I can't remember why he shared that TMI)
Maybe we need someone like Hillary Clinton to tell us how she needs extra help getting aroused since she started menopause.
This is the explicit language that was originally in the ads for Vestra:
"women are starting to talk about vestra...wanting more sexual satisfaction..."
versus
"KY plus is a gel that is proven to intensify female satisfaction..." (and shows a man and woman in bed (clothed) but looking dazed and have messy hair)
ok. gonna go chew some ice now.
Vestra is intruding on Tequila's domain.
BTW... If you do a search for old geezers (aka. old fogies) in your area, you might even see me.
OK I am teasing too much, aren't I? NOT OLD FOGEY like rocking on the front porch and holding an earhorn up asking "eh?"
I will modify my language and just say "an older gentleman"
sorry to any classy men that I may have offended!
btw he replied and said "I understand. Being 55 I am at the older end of the single parents group so it can be a stretch finding someone from the group to date. But you never know unless you ask! See you around."
That sounds like a really good response from both of you!
I really don't know where the young end of what I would date is. It almost seems that the decision might be more up to the younger person than the older one. But I don't think I would be really comfortable with under about 35. But if someone younger was interested, I don't know that I would say no, for that matter.
I set my match level at 30. Really, if I somehow found someone less than 30 and we hit off and got married, at 10 years I'd be back in that divorce danger range of 36-40.
I was out tonight and there was a younger crowd and the 20 somethings looked good, but I kept thinking they don't really know how hard all this crap really is.
I'd really rather find someone in the 34-38 range.
NM -
Are you ready for some refreshing cold rain after this heat wave that hit our area today?
Yes Kerry- I love fall- my favorite time of year- and S is totally able to walk around in the pumpking patch, or apple orchards, etc!!! I can't wait! And trick or treat, collect leaves, splash in puddles....
Daylight Savings doesn't start until November though- what is up with that???? I must have forgotten but why did they change it?
GO DUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think it is kind of arrogant when Men (cuz women rarely want this) neglect the sexy, confident, interesting, women closer to their age to go for the women who haven't had kids yet, who are still kind of naive and who are more familiar with TMZ than even the CBS nightly news...
I have a colleague who is 50 She is a taller, slender, red head with a super cute figure. She is funny as Hell and grounded. She had 3 kids. She says the men closer to her age are looking for the 20-30 somethings. WHY??????????????
I saw her first!
Wait a sec........she does live in Oregon, Kerry! She is Irish, about 5'9 or 5'10 and teaches 2nd grade.
And GM I have to think before I type! I don't know what has gotten into me lately. All fired up. I am being very stereotypical.
I was named after Kerry County Ireland. In fact, they call it the
Kingdom of Kerry. Someday I may visit my subjects there.
But- aren't you dating someone now, Kerry?
Well I wish I could show you a pic but don't want to break confidentiality and she would kill me!
On another topic- guess what--Portland Oregon has a nickname as "Pornland!" I just watched Nightline and apparently there is rampant sex trafficking here....young girls from 12-highschool are made to walk the streets! Also it has more strip clubs than Las Vegas.
Oh and I was coming back from working, ran a yellow light, got pulled over...I had to dig through my purse for my driver's license because I spilled the contents of my wallet. The officer asked me "where are you headed?" and I just promised him that my license was in there somewhere! Finally, he came back and said he wouldn't issue me a citation this time (I have a clean record! Well it has been 10 years since I got a ticket I think)
He said "you need to be extra cautious driving a little one around" (he noticed S' car seat)
Maybe he let me go because I didn't deny that I ran the yellow. I was guilty...and I have been running yellows a lot lately to be honest! So this was a good warning.
Ugh! I just looked up this cool park that lets you ride trains for free on Sundays. It said "Ride free on Sunday's."
Lately I am seeing so many cases of improper use of 's! I am NOT an expert on grammar but my 6th grade teacher, Mr. Gardner, taught us how to use 's vs s! THANK YOU, Mr. Gardner with a loud voice who let us watch "Space Balls" and "The Outsiders" (after we read the book. I don't know why we got to watch "Space Balls!)
here's a quick recap on the proper use of " 's."
*'s can be used to show possession:
It was the boy's dog.
I liked Jan's dress.
*It can be used as a contraction to replace "is"
The restaurant's closed. (The restaurant is closed.)
It's raining outside! (It is raining outside!)
IT IS NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER USED TO SHOW "MORE THAN ONE" (plural)!!!
JUST PLAIN OLD 's' is used in that case.
We are closed on Sundays.
The kids are running.
*when you want to show that something belongs to a plural, you put the ' after the s:
"It is the boys' bathroom."
another couple of random things:
I am depressed again...I know this feeling. I remember it well.
Blech.
Lately I feel like I need to be divorced before I can start dating again. I do want a fella. But I don't want to ask stbxh about the divorce. Am stuck.
I will have fun soon. I will! I have to. Am just feeling kind of..depressed and not into being perky and taking the energy to hang out with new people. etc.
Lately I feel like I need to be divorced before I can start dating again.
Then be divorced before you start dating again.
Oh yeah and I see people mix up "it's" and "its"
it is "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"
its (possession) as in "The storm was rearing its ugly head!"
Sorry to hear about your "s" infatuation. I always be a try'n to a git it right with the ah-pos-tra-fee. However, is thar ev'r a time be'n whar it be a pro pee ought to use "aint" or "reckon" in a sentence?
I am not dating anyone besides my tape measure, circular saw and hammer right now. I'm busy on one of those projects at home - framing and putting siding on the lower floor of the playhouse so as to make another storage area.
Give me a hint to her match.com user name and maybe I will look the irish lass up with no paper trail leading back to you. But I will first have to battle it out with the Virtual Handsome Wildcat fan.
It's and its. Your and you're.
Drives me crazy yellow bonkers to see how much they are misused. And 's on plurals. I'm with you mama!
It sounds like you have the drop on me geographically, Kerry!
Yeah Jeff! I've got containment fences up already.
another couple of random things:
I am depressed again...I know this feeling. I remember it well.
Blech.
Lately I feel like I need to be divorced before I can start dating again. I do want a fella. But I don't want to ask stbxh about the divorce. Am stuck.
I will have fun soon. I will! I have to. Am just feeling kind of..depressed and not into being perky and taking the energy to hang out with new people. etc.
I understand and I am in the same place...It stinks because I thought I was finally over that hump, but here i am again, but it doesn't seem as low this time. Still stinks!
On the guys dating younger women thing. Yup it's crazy. In the past 3 years my 49 yo almost beau has dated 3 (!) 28-year-old women (!!) . He claims that they pursued him. He spent time with them (a few months each) but didn't plan for it to go anywhere.
Now he says that he "wasted his time" with them because he never saw them as LTR material and he wants to be in a LTR. He doesn't act like he feels that great about those relationships. He got tired of being with women who are in a totally different life stage than him (they didn't get parenthood, didn't have busy lives like he does, not emotionally mature, etc.).
In his defense, he lives in a small community where it could be tricky to meet women of his age...he would know their exes, etc.
Hope your mood improves. hugs
Back when I was dating a lot, I remember saying to one young woman (let's call her C) that I was kind of wild back during the 80s, but that the 80s were generally a wild time for 20 somethings. She responded, "I wasn't born until the 80s".
That pretty much summed up the true depth of that relationship, and I knew it right then. That... and I just didn't get a thrill out of going with her to parties at her friends' houses... which was just mostley a bunch of 20 somethings drinking too much (and sometimes "smoking" too much) and being very stupid about it all
I resolved right then and there to finally grow up.
They say love is blind and speaking from experience some late twenties women are as mature as mid-thirties so it's hard to say really. However, if a man purposely seeks out a younger woman that just maybe a compensation thing.
NM, Kerry- you guys are both on FB if you're concerned about violating someone's privacy on a public forum
They say love is blind and speaking from experience some late twenties women are as mature as mid-thirties so it's hard to say really. However, if a man purposely seeks out a younger woman that just maybe a compensation thing.
Well, there's younger and there's younger. There's the common situation of men being with women who are young enough to be their daughter...I don't care how mature she is, that age difference has a huge impact on the nature of the relationship.
Well you know I have that great example of my old high school boyfriend( age 46) that is infatuated with his 29 year old girlfriend. So much so that they never even dated! Went right from going on a family vacation to moving her in with him. She and her two little boys were staying with her parents in NC. He even drove out there to bring them back to MO.
He had been married 21 years when his wife cheated on him and they got divorced. His dad just had a stroke about a year and a half ago and his two daughters are now out of the house leaving him at home with his 16 year old son. Doesn't matter that I am thinking MLC, he has to go through this on his own.
Even with all of that, she has even given some "procalmation" of what maturity is and how she is working on it. Yep, they aren't even on the same planet, maturity wise.
Maybe I have this upsetting me as it affects me personally.
kat
I believe that my XW now has step sons that are older than her.
if a man purposely seeks out a younger woman that just maybe a compensation thing.
Compensation for what? Speaking only from my own past, the only thing I was compensating for was pretty much having stopped maturing around age 30.
The women didn't get younger; I got older.
So what is the consensus on older women with younger men? Everyone talks about the older man/younger woman, but do you feel differently when the woman is older.....can we say cougar?
i know we have gone there before. I have thumbs down on both. I don't want to date someone young enough to be my son. a few years either way I think will keep you in a good place with each other.
kat
Just checking in--time flies when you are...busy...whether or not it is fun.
So I really do regret saying those things about women in their 20s versus 30s. What was I thinking? GM and Awest and I think even Gatsby are younger than me, in their late 20s or 30.And you ladies are very mature! And I am only 34!! So what makes me so much more mature than a 29 year old? So that was just wrong of me. I don't know why it makes me so mad that the older men go so young when wanting to date.
But I think it has to do with vanity-- I mean I think that is what makes me mad. I think maybe the men who go for the 20 year age difference don't want to admit they are aging so it goes back to compensation. Or they don't realize they have aged and want to be Peter Pan. And when I see terrific women aging well who are passed up, it really ires me. By aging well I mean they work out, are in good health, style their hair, don't wear too much make up, dress stylish but not like a teenager or something...
Flowmom I am just tickled pink for you that you are enjoying an almost beau! Thanks for checking in on me--S is just gradually but quickly turning into a little boy. His independence is so pronounced already! I don't walk around saying "NO. NO. No" (yet) but instead I say "that's HOT!" or "uh-oh, owies!" or " No- YUCKY!" The mimicking is so fun, too!
BTW my student with Autism has been cruising along pretty well this week. I have read his social stories to the whole class (like it was just another read-aloud-- I don't say this is Ricky's special book) and they are interested because the content applies to them as well.
Sounds like things are going well...although busy, and thanks about being mature because sometimes people get a stereotype about how someone acts compared to their age. I am 28 and even at 20 was more mature than many 30 year olds I knew. I grew up quick because of my dad dying so you can't always judge a book on their age. Although this week has been a week of compliments, I have had three people say I look 3 years younger than I really am...Go me!
Hope you have a good rest of the week and maybe this weekend you can relax? Here's hoping.
I've been thinking about this whole age thing a lot recently. My 50 year old ex-H is with a 31 year old woman now - probably a fair match physically, as he's youthful and fit, but.....even so, I would never have dated a guy that age when I was 31. And now that I'm 54, I'm sure not gonna date a 73 year old!
Meanwhile, impossibly young men - I'm talkin' 25-31 - approach me online all the time, and some of them actually are serious about wanting to date me!
Now - I guess, if all I wanted was a casual fling, maybe one or two of them were smart enough that I could enjoy that. But the problem is, flings turn into relationships, and a relationship with that big an age gap means people are NOT at the same life stages, and is usually NOT gonna work out for the long haul.
On the other hand, relatively smaller age differences that didn't used to matter to be, look bigger now. I might have a fun date with a 65 year old, but I look at those guys and think - if I was involved with him, that'd be 10 years less sex in my lifetime!
So - while my ideal would be a guy my age who is physically youthful and virile, a slightly younger guy might be a good fit too. (But not those babies!)
Pretty good analysis there, kml!
I think it does make a difference what life stage you are in. IT doesn't make sense for me to date someone that wants to have babies! Even if it sounded like a good idea now, how good is it going to sound in 10 or 15 years?
whoa...long time no board! I guess it reminded me of what I used to do before the DB forum was around!
Well, I went to a meetup on Saturday, There were 3 men and 3 women. 2 of the 3 men were interested in me so that felt good! But one reminded me of my dad- he looked like him,sounded like him and even acted like him. So you can imagine I was not too interested!
And the other was too....into attention seeking and validation. No thank you! He reminded me of someone I dated 11 years ago... and it is hard to give someone like that the amount of attention they desire!
But hey, at least getting out there was good. We were listening to music--a bluegrass band and a folkey band. The pizza was yumme- great crust- and the beer was flowing but I limited myself to 2! phew!
ANd I started up on match. I have been emailing someone a couple of times now...and responded to a wink. The first fella lives an hour away. But maybe I will discover he is relocating? He has 2 kids and he is a few years older than me. The second fella will probably think I am boring but he cooks, he plays an instrument, he is a tech guy, he wrote some deep stuff, he is devoted to his daughter... well rounded! I don't know...just entertaining myself I guess.
I took S out this last weekend to a pumpkin patch and an apple orchard and we had a lot of fun!
So I am going to check others' threads now...
The pizza was yumme- great crust- and the beer was flowing but I limited myself to 2! phew!
I think that you will agree...we do indeed live in the best place on the planet for the best brew!
As for the match.com, take your time. Keep your standards high. Be picky!
I am in contact with one lady my age that has all the signs of being a great match. We will see if the chemistry is there when we meet. I have a good feeling about this one.
PS... You might want to check out some corn mazes with your son. I live on the west side in Tigard and can say that
Baggenstos has a very interesting corn maze each year.
I was at a huge birthday party and ran into an old high school friend. She had been married seven years, three kids, got divorced, her choice. He worked 70 hour weeks and refused to scale back.
Three years later she met a guy through Match and now they are getting married.
So there's one local success story.
It's so hard, CTH. You're first instinct is to turn to the person you have shared so much with and who you thought would stand by you for life. When she treats you like garbage at the side of the road, it still hurts...especially when you haven't done anything to deserve it. It's one thing if you screwed around on her or you were hostile and hurtful during the M but when you haven't done anything it's hard to fathom and still hurts. That's the gift of divorce, it just keeps on giving! I think some spouses have to do it this way to appease their guilt, they shut you out while others are there for you as a means of assauging their guilt. Why my wife is doing it, who knows. I'm not going to speculate, all I know is that it's a time when I needed somebody to step up and she did. She's extremely busy with work, as always, so it is a kind gesture to say she'd put it aside for me. She didn't have to. Does it mean anything as far as us? No. A few weeks ago when she had a procedure done she didn't ask me to take her, I assumed her "friend" would but I did pick up our D that evening because she told me she wasn't supposed to drive for the rest of the day.
I'm thinking of starting a new GAL activity, Coloscopy Club. We can have sightseeing trips to different clinics and discuss explosive topics like "Passing gas: What's all the stink about?" It'll be great fun and educational too!