So after several years of being treated like crap, trying like a fiend to save our 18+ year marriage, I'm now heading for separation/divorce. What fun
She dropped the bomb 10/8. She moved out mother's day and left me and the kids behind. I let her come back thinking she had changed. I was wrong. I think now she just came back to get her things...
As far as I can tell, she has been gone since 9/08 when the crisis of her nephew dying hit. She never really came back from the funeral.
I've been relieved actually. I'm very "depleted" as the counselor calls it. She has killed the marriage and there is not a thing I can do about it.
Others talk about waiting to date at least one yearly cycle. I get that. I can honestly say that I've been alone for at least that long. Am I ready for another relationship? To some degree yes. But nothing too serious. I agonized over that concept for a while. But to tell the truth a transitional relationship doesn't seem like a bad idea. A way to learn more about people. To learn more about me. I've had a lot of alone time to think about that over the past several years (even before the bomb).
Now I'm moving on. Faster and faster. And I feel better about it. I look forward to being happier and not just relieved but for now I'll take the relieved part. 'Cause I know the happiness is coming after we are truly separated (we still have to live in the same house until it sells for financial reasons.)
One thing that is curious - she swore up and down she wanted to be friends. I have no desire to be friends with somebody that treated me like has. Still don't. But it's curious why she is soooooooo angry towards me. Has been for a very long time. I know I can't get an answer, but it is baffling to me why she gets what she wants and is angry. <sigh>
Hope the house sells fast....
AJ
I found you. Now, I can read and reply. Why did you not come and say hello? You were my first friend!!! Lots going on... not a lot of good.
AJ:
Still don't. But it's curious why she is soooooooo angry towards me. Has been for a very long time. I know I can't get an answer, but it is baffling to me why she gets what she wants and is angry. <sigh>
AJ
I'd be pissed too, if the man I walked away from, turned around and did all the things I wanted him to, shaped up, and looks hot now!
How's that for your PMA!!???
Just sending a hug, and support for my friend. You are a GEM, and will find so much happiness. There will be ONE (or maybe many - eyebrow wiggle) lucky woman out there when she finds herself loved by you.
You are a good man.
HUGS
Sorry, on impulse I came out and dropped in on the group. Not being rude, but haven't really caught up yet. Trying to be careful of the hope-dope (as my mc calls it) that runs rampant here. It's good to keep hope. It is. But it can be unhealthy.
You may be right. By her own admission I always treated her very well. I am "hot" or so my friends tell me (funny story: I met up with a local support group and had met an organizer the week prior without knowing she was part of that. When I showed up, one of of the others in the group asked her, "is this the good looking guy you were talking about?" - good for me ego so far
I realized that in 20 years she found one thing she can try to use to blame me - that makes me darn near perfect in her eyes. I guess she may have a few issues with that. Don't know. Don't really want to care either, but sometimes I still do. Less and less though which is good.
I realized just how abused I've been. I'm shell-shocked or something similar. I have zero emotional ability at the moment, when it comes to giving to somebody romantically. Just nothing there for now.
I have made so many new friends and reconnected with so many old friends. I love that! I am really enjoying things so much more. More and more each day I let a piece go as best I can and I can feel the stress rolling off. I am really liking that.
And you? I'll catch up with your thread a little later today. Work calls.....
AJ
AJ - I didn't see your reply. Like the ego boost!! LOL Whoo Hoo!
You don't need to give anything to anyone romantically now. Enjoy you, and allow yourself to just be.
It's empowering to feel the stress rolling off. I hear ya.
Thanks for the continual check-in. You're a good friend. HUGS Oh, yea, and an ego boost!
AJM......I like to read your positve attitude!! I also left the group for a while because of the same reasons, I knew what I had to do, and being here I wasnt sure I could do it, or handle a single person telling me I was giving up, when actually I was doing the best thing for myself, and my children.
We were talkin yesterday about the green monster rearing its head, when WE move fwd, and yes even if we are doing exactly what they have said they wanted.....don't let that monster detuor you from your journey. Its nice to have friends on the same journey that we are on.....Best of luck to you!!!
It's a tough road.
The latest:
The therapist has been giving me a hard time telling me I'm angry. Know what? I am. And I won't change that. There's no reason to right now. I have no intentions of "being friends" with STBX. That's ludicrous. I stay angry because otherwise I let my guard down. And everytime I do that I get punched in the nose. That's happened every time for the last three years. I see no reason to continue allowing that behavior.
In fairness, I was nicer than cold today. I actually encouraged her nice behavior again (first time in months). I'm not willing to be friends with somebody that treats me the way she does. I almost had to beat that into the therapist. Not sure what she is telling me this for but it is what it is. I've had enough of this bat sh*t crazy mess. The jealousy. The sleepless nights. The worry.
I did get some good advice from the therapist too though. She mentioned some good ways to talk to the kids about. For example, she mentioned that I should tell them the truth in a way that is not accusatory of their mother. To let them know we still love them and will be there for them at events in their lives. Even if together as long as we don't have to ride together
I spoke to my daughter today (she got her permit yesterday. YAY!) about it. Before when she remarked I was happier I didn't disagree. But after talking to the therapist she suggested I change that so the daughter doesn't think I like this and the pain it brings. She suggested instead I mention the truth and let her know I am deeply heartbroken and disappointed but that I'm relieved to know the outcome. I'm going to miss our family and our house and pets, but I'm relived that I no longer have to be in limbo. For now, that will have to do.
Just my venting for the day. Gotta bounce
AJ
Update:
Nothing much to report. I was feeling a bit down and sad last night and this morning. I expect that's normal considering. I feel like I want to move on and that pressure is getting to me. Need to sell the house first, but may just decide that I should give it to her. Then again, I'm stubborn and I haven't done anything wrong. Just painful is all. I may decide that I do not want to keep the house as much as I want my freedom. Am I nuts??? I don't know, but it's better than depressed and beaten down if that's what it is.
</vent>
I know that I won't do that. I have my kids to think about. They deserve my best and I'll give it to them. No matter what I'll be sure they are well taken care of.
So. Now that I've vented, I feel better. I know that feeling sorry for her is the wrong attitude. I know that I cannot go back to that mess in a dress. I don't need that pain another minute. I don't want it. I want to be free (I'm repeating myself; I think it's time to end here
AJ
AJ,
I don't know your whole sitch but based on your posts here and your signature I can feel and understand your frustration. Over a year is a long time - your emotions will probably change often. Sometimes sad, sometimes angry, sometimes at relieved - not in any particular order as I'm sure you already know.
As most here have suggested many times, you don't have to be friends with your STBXW but you should be cordial. You're better than than that!
Whatever you decide in terms of the house, a new relationship, etc just make the kids and yourself are the priority. Kids are innocent bystanders that lose the most in these situations and it's what hurts the most.
Wow!! I rarely come here anymore but have often wondered what happened to you!!!
It is good that you are moving in a clear direction.
Hard, I know, but good for you.
SR - I know. The kids don't deserve this. Neither do I, but that's inconsequential and I can take it. It's not what they deserve and that is frustrating. I am cordial. I am even kind in many ways. But I am quickly changing focus and re-emphasizing my own needs and changing my habits. Every time I think I want to do something nice for her, I instead do something nice for me. Or a friend or the kids. I am exploring the world at large and really do enjoy that. I just need us to sell the house so I can be away from her for good. I do realize I'll have to deal with her regarding the kids, but that is to be expected.
AK!! Good to see you here. How have you been? I haven't been back to CA in a while, but still owe you as I recall. Need to get you to find me externally so we can work out the details!
I do have a clear direction. Just going to require time and exploration I think. She did a lot of damage and I'm only now starting to decompress and find some of, and work to repair that damage. I didn't realize the extent and still may not, but I'm actively searching and repairing that damage now. 18 years of marriage and almost three years of just me trying has really left a lot more damage than I expected. I kept my feelings bottled up away from her while trying to "find out" if we could fix things. Just didn't realize there was no "we" trying. In some sense, she may have been trying, but hard to see that. She has been trying to kill the marriage and destroy everything in her life that she can. Thankfully she has come back to a relationship with the kids. I am grateful for that.
Last night:
Gosh that was fun.
She came home from the beach with my son after an overnight. Good side is that they went alone. That's new for her since during all of this she has not been alone with the kids for more than a few hours. I've been gone quite a bit and the funny thing is she feels she can text me to let me know that I am not spending a lot of time with the kids. I don't respond, but I don't really listen to her either. She's mean and hateful even now. <sigh> Goes out of her way to say mean things and to be harsh towards me. Yesterday she came to me and asked if I had plans for memorial day. I told her I'd check the calendar and get back. But I thought about it and came back to her later and said I'd re-do my plans and she could do what she wants, the kids and I would find something to do. She told me that she wanted to take the kids away for the holiday. I flat out said no. She took them for Easter and I was going to take them for this holiday. She was still angry and said we'd work it out. I'm ok with that as long as we work it out so that the kids hang out with me. Truthfully, the kids are old enough to make up their own minds. They can do what they like and I'll agree to their choice. But I realized that I have given everything. Really. I have nothing left to give to the monster. I have to save it for the kids. And I do. I also realize I do NOT want to get the kids into a tug of war over any of this. I'll let go before I'll do that to be sure I don't hurt them or put them in a situation that will hurt them. I'll just have to let them know what I want and that I'll go with their decision on many things. I don't want them to think I don't care.
</vent>
More later.
AJ
And now for something more.
I'm just posting. Feel free to read something more meaningful and poignant.
I was at lunch with a friend. I was describing my nightmare last night. Not sure why I had it, but it was there anyway. My nightmare was that I was walking towards my car with my kids, and three monsters were trying to steal it. I yelled at them and then tried to stop them. They threatened me and I backed off. It's only a car anyway, right? About that time my stbx came walking out and saw them, and started towards them to stop them. They started hitting her with a chain making her cry. I started to go towards them to stop them, when I realized I had to stop. I couldn't help her. One of them noticed me and pulled a gun. That's when I woke up. Weird huh?
I realized while talking to my friend just how stressed I have been. And how I am starting to de-stress. As I do, odd feelings and thoughts bubble back out. That's not a bad thing, but it is new on the scene. I haven't had a nightmare in a very long time. I have lived one for a very long time, but that's different. Same for dreams.
I do feel sad for her. I feel more sad for my kids and myself at our loss. But I don't hate her. I dislike her strongly and I have no respect for her. But I don't hate her. She has had enough hatred for the both of us. I don't feel like I need to add to that, rather I just need to protect my kids and myself and let her go. So I try to let her go a little more each day. And each day it gets easier to do. Little by little.
As the saying goes, "An elephant is best eaten in pieces." I'm chewing now, but I'll go back for more shortly
Cheers,
AJ
I stay angry because otherwise I let my guard down. And everytime I do that I get punched in the nose. That's happened every time for the last three years. I see no reason to continue allowing that behavior.
Man do I know how that feels.
AJ- On FB..."Alive Kicking"...
My situation is sad, somehow not much different than so long ago. Limbo. Cake eating. I am so much better though. I am creating a life for myself and I do intend to file for divorce, still angry and disgusted that he doesn't have the balls to make a decision and I have to be the one. But, it is what it is. I think eventually, he will come around...it seems obvious but, alas, I will be long gone by then.
Amazing that I still can't believe it is worth it to him to lose so much; we've had some amazing times together in the past few months but, he is in contact with the "ex" girlfriend he acquired "after" he left me. So, that's a deal breaker for me.
At least I see a life and a future for myself...and it is good.
I am glad to hear you are still swimming. This is a crazy life and hard to understand why things happen the way they do. Painful,but we will be better for it.
I'll catch up to you.
Take care,
AJ
I think I'm starting to get it. I have been holding to a sliver of hope that things could be different in the near future. As if I've been waiting around for her to come "rescue" me from this hell. Silly I know, but they are my feelings.
I need to figure out how to let go without becoming a bitter man and without becoming a hateful person. Still grabbing my balance on that one. Would be easier if we did not live together and if she did not lie so much. My expectations could be lower too I suppose.
I think yesterday was hard for me for a reason. I think my mind is making connections and feelings I have previously stowed away as detrimental to the process are now coming back to be dealt with. At least they are waiting in line and not rushing in all at once
Sadness was yesterday. I guess it has been there all along, but I don't know that I've given it enough attention. Like a small child that wants his father's attention, sadness has grabbed me by the cheeks and is vehemently demanding my attention. I'll give it.
I think what I've realized is just how crazy some of this has been. When she started pulling away, I think it was due to stress mostly. But as I look at it more closely I think that's only part of the picture. I think she is not only pulling away from me but from her parents and their ways. Things that she was doing in part because of her parents influence. I think this rebellion is part of that. I've felt it all along - I'm paying for the sins of another. And I've suspected it was her parents. But I think what happened is that as she couldn't deal with the stress, she began to find ways to get it off her back. I've felt that too - she needed to find a way to let go of the stress load and was willing to do whatever it took. I think she began to believe the thoughts put in her head about being selfish. And as she did that, it became more apparent that I was a problem. As she went down that path, she needed it to be my fault. I didn't give her that. So she began to re-remember our past to make it fit what she wanted. So desperately. I also believe there is another man in the picture. There have been a few, but I think that's part of the issue. That other man is providing some sort of emotional support that she felt she "couldn't" get at home. I think that growing up is also part of the reason she rebelled against me.
This has never been about me. It has never been my "fault". Just my burden to bear. But to be honest, I think it leaves me only one thing to really do - say goodbye. While it is not what I wanted, I did give it my all. Everything and then some. I'm depleted to say the least. But I can and will no longer be there for her. We cannot be friends as long as she continues to treat me badly. And she is continuing with the harsh words and the anger. She is spending more and more time with the other guy. I almost feel sorry for him
I know how that will end eventually, but to be honest, that is not really my concern. I have a twinge of caring, but I don't think this is the time for that. This is the time to move on with my own life. To accept what is and to let it go. I need my house to sell or for her to move out to make that really sink in, but things are in need of change. I'm ready to begin the climb. I'm ready to keep swimming. I'm ready to see what is in store for my life. To explore.
I think the other issue I have is that "hope dope" fantasy of her coming back. She is not. She is dead as far as our relationship is concerned. Never came back and has been actively trying to get away from me for years. If that is what she needs, then so be it. I say goodbye for ever and will try to make my peace with it. That is my goal for now. To say goodbye and to leave it at that. To stop thinking she will come back. To stop thinking about her and the issues that she brought to our lives. I am slowly making peace with this. But it is taking time. I have years of emotions to work through. I'm going to do so.
One emotion at a time.
No crowding.
No pushing please.
There is so much to explore. I want it drink it all in....
AJ
AJM,
loved your post, the way you put the puzzle pieces together, you are healing my friend. It's a long road but you are on the right path,
xxx
K
Kalni!!! Very nice to hear from you. How have you been?
Thank you for the kind words of encouragement. I'm doing my best.
I realize so much as I move further away. I realized last night that I'm missing so many positive things in my life and have been focusing on the wrong parts of my life. I'm working hard this week to change that and you know what? It feels good. It feels more like me. The me I lost over time while consumed with so much more. I like this part....
The ideas keep trying to come into my mind but I need a break. I've communicated what I need to communicate to my children, friends, family, myself. It's time to rest and see the good that life has to offer. One step at a time.
I'd love to catch up Kalni. To see how you are. Outside comm is a fine way to as many of us don't seem to be here very often anymore.
Hi AJ,
Just read yesterday's post. I think you are describing my situation, my relationship with my wife, and my needs as well.
Just wanted you to know you are not alone.
-Thinker
Yep. Thank you Thinker. I think we are very much in the same situation. Time to move on, no?
AJ
Found you...
I have been...up and down and up and down again. Too much stress. Revealations, truth... Recently I had some moments when I felt content, happy. I still cant shake anxiety off though. Working on it.
K
What makes you stressed? I am having trouble finding your thread?
AJ
Piecing.. LOL
If you forget #71 (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Ah. Yep, that can be stressful.
Update:
I've run into the running buddy from long ago. I ran into him at a running event. At the time he was going through the same stuff I was going through. Oddly, I think that's part of what she was confused by - his situation and his actions. I think she was using him in many ways and in some ways I feel saddened by that for him. Not too much mind you
Anyway, it was good to see he is doing better and getting himself back on track now that his wife left. He is finally waking up and is not allowing her to come back. Good for him says I. She put him through hell. Similar situation to mine oddly.
Anyway, I notice that it is getting easier to withstand her crap. The dynamic is changing yet again and I'm appreciative of that. I think it's me. I really and honestly am coming more to terms with what's happened and why I cannot go back. I see the light at the end of the tunnel and I'm swimming with all I've got to get there. I like that. I'm glad to not be wrapped up in the goo of this bat [censored] crazy stuff. The high school drama. The pain. I feel a great sense of relief yet again and I attribute that to the change in my own attitude. I'm starting to look at things much differently and I like that too.
Life is good. To tell the truth, it has been good, but I wasn't willing to notice and appreciate that. I am now. And the more I do the more that the issues of the past few years really start to fade away. Sure I still get sad or angry or ?? but at least now those feelings come one at a time, wait patiently for the others to finish, and don't stay nearly as long. I like that too.
AJ
Ah the joys of the process. Stick a fork in me, I'm done. I'm completely done. I want nothing more to do with her. Yet, I notice that I still pay attention to some things. For example, I notice that she is trying to talk to me. Trying to get my attention and to make me jealous. I notice that she is still trying to get me to do things that she is unwilling to do herself. Like training a child, I will not be treated like that and I will not allow that behavior, but I notice it. Some of that is that we are still in the same house. Yuck.
So I guess I still have a way to go and that will be stumped until the house sells. I can deal, but what a painful way to move on. It's not lost on me that it must be difficult for her and the kids as well. My daughter said as much about her own pain and desires. I hear her. I don't care about the stbx's pain nearly as much as I have in the past. Slightly, but only because it's sad to watch. But I realize she did make her own choices and I am not going to live with them any longer.
So be it. Time to head to the beach for the weekend with my son.
AJ
Yep,
Moving on while living in the same house is DIFFICULT!
Having the same trouble myself.
I'm finding that it is not as difficult as it used to be. My thoughts are that, hey, what is it she can do to me now? The monster she has become can no longer hurt me any more than she has. That's the truth. I'm beyond that level of hurt any longer. The healing has been in full swing for a long time. I can feel it. When I feel sad, or angry or otherwise, it doesn't go nearly as deep and doesn't last very long. A few hours or a day at the most.
Like I said, I've seen the worst she can do (obviously she could do worse, but it would be horrendous worse, and not just aimed at me. The things she does aimed at me - there is no worse she can do any longer. I know that. There is no denying it at this point.
There is no going back for me. I cannot and will not. Three years of trying and figuring things out is WAY too long already. I get it. I got it. I'm accepting it and moving on with or without her being out of the house. I've lived with the monster in the house for a long time. I realize now that I've been going through this for so long that it is not that I'm moving faster now, I'm just realizing how far I've come. I'm going the rest of the way now.
I plan to talk to the lawyer to see what we can work out to get her out. I'll go slowly, because that's a negotiation tactic. I'll make her wait for a while to soften her up. I won't be fooled by her trying to be nicer although I will reward the good behavior in the sense that I will respond when appropriate. I will not respond when the behavior is mean and nasty and hateful and trying to hurt me. Period. I will NOT let myself be out of the house to avoid her. I'll be out of the house because I have other things to do. Period.
I've spent a few weeks doing that. Getting out to be away. It helped. I'm addicted to it.
But it's not the way I want to be because that's a form of her having control over me and I need to get that out of me. Like the last pieces of a splinter - I'll work it out as quickly as I can.
Hang in there Thinker. See things differently. I wake up every morning and I thank God for all the wonderful things in my life. Every blessing. Know what? I see things very differently now. I see a lot of positive things in my life. A lot.
Aj
AJM -
Gee, I catch w/you on FB, and forget that you are here!!!
I could have written your above post. (But, you say it nicer!!!)
Keep the faith, brotha!
HUGS
Thanks. Today I'm torn - I'm thankful and I'm angry at the same time. Been a while since two feelings have been there at the same time. I think I'm just done and ready to move on and she's in the way. I think it also has to do with yesterday. It was painful to see her drop the kids off and run to be with her new friends on Mother's day. The kids weren't happy about it either. That hurt a bit to watch. That's where my anger comes in. I'm tired of watching this train wreck that used to be so full of love.
Just the same, there are so many great things to be thankful for. My kids for example. They're awesome. We had a great time yesterday evening. I let my daughter talk me into driving us over and getting ice cream. I like her being able to drive. I like being a passenger I think.
Things are great, but I need to move on. I need to sell the house. Sooner rather than later.
I finally broke down and let my in-laws know to back off with the enthusiasm to sell the house. I'm sure I'll get an earful but I'm looking forward to that. I try to remember this is painful for them as well. But I can't keep hearing and seeing their enthusiasm (my mother in law mostly) for selling the house and seeing how that affects my kids. My daughter was griping about it to me over the last few days. I get it. It doesn't help to hear your grandparents urging the sale of the house when it represents the upheaval and destruction of your family as you knew it. Had to say something.
I feel better
Weekend was otherwise great! Beach was awesome...Kids were a lot of fun...sun is shining.
AJ
There. Better. Took a little time to work that out of my system, but not much.
These waves of feelings are a pain the butt. But they are not nearly so difficult any longer. I don't feel much movement, but I know it's happening. I'm moving further and further away and moving closer to moving on. I'm done. There is no looking back and wondering "what if" or "if I had..." I realize it wasn't my choice. I realize that now I am making choices and I am, several months later, still happy with that. I don't foresee that changing, although I do realize that there will be times of sadness and wondering if things could have been different. I know the answer to that - yes they could have. Just not by anything that I've done or could have done. And her relationship with the kids is hers. I'll be there for the kids regardless, just like I always have.
AJ
That has to be one of the hardest things about this process. Their relationship with the kids are theirs. They need to own it and we need to step way back. It has kept me sane this kind of realization, hopefully it will help you too.
kat
ajm,
you repeat "I am done" too much... Getting little worried here.
Dont get stuck to "time". It IS a relevant thing. Dont expect too much from you. Easy does it
HUGS
K
Thank you Kalni. Re-reading it, and I'm getting a little worried that I'm not done enough. I've had enough, but done may be a little further away
AJ
Yuck. I'm spinning. I should just go ahead and admit that and get it over with.
I am in limbo and I know it. Doing something about that is the harder part. I suspect the right thing to do is...nothing. Seems about right for now.
So, I'm doing nothing for now.
Why am I spinning? I haven't figured that out yet. I think I need time to figure it out.
Yuck.
AJ
Hi AJ, you need to find some way to take the edge off. When I got to the point where I knew I was spinning and couldn't stop, I would consciously put both of my feet on the ground, close my eyes, and breath deep.
Or smoke a cigarette, but I don't recommend that unless you already smoke.
Think of a way that you can calm your mind when you feel it racing. Any suggestions?
Thanks Lola. No, what seemed to have worked was to pick a fight with stbx. To be honest, I just couldn't take it and the anger helped me see how she has been leaving for so long. Even while lying about trying. (hey, that rhymes
Truth be told, I have nothing left to give to her and won't be treated that way any longer. I unloaded on her the other day. I felt very calm afterwards. And have since. Am I done? I doubt it. But I don't have much desire to work on any kind of relationship with her any longer. At all. I loathe even seeing her to be frank. This is not likely the right forum for me any longer....
Just the same, thanks for the thoughts. I'll take a look, but honestly, I think it's just time I accept that it's over and has been for several years. Her anger may just have been her trying to break away. The MLC? Hard to say if that is still going on or not. The way she treats the kids? That's abhorrent, but may just be in front of me more often than not. Seems to be changing and for that I am happy. And proud of the effort I put into getting them back together regardless of the pain at the time. I think in the end, it's just been too much and I have nothing left to give to anyone. What I can muster, I have to give to myself and the kids. It's time to walk away....
Cheers,
AJ
AJM - just stopping by to say hi and to catch up on your tread. Sorry about your W...just wanted to comment that you appear really strong and are handling your situation well. All the best
I appreciate that Mila. I think this stuff comes in waves. As I read this book "Rebuilding after...." I am having all kinds of epiphanies. Things that the MC said, things W said and did, and how things have gone over the past couple of years. I see things very differently as I revisit the past few years.
I realize that anger is going to come out more and more. It's time I dealt with it head on. It's time I stop fixating and trying to explain. In the end, it just doesn't matter. The result is the same either way. It is time in my life to go my separate way. I honestly think I'll be happier for it if you must know.
I know I have no regrets, but feel it is time to acknowledge and move past. There can be no relationship with her for a long time. At some point friendship may be possible - I can see that. But there will be nothing beyond that. It's time to say goodbye to it all and reinvent.
Sad. Angry. Happy. Looking forward to the adventure. All at once
AJ - I just finished talking to OW'S husband and the two of you seem to be in the same place. He has had enough, he has accepted that his wife is not who he thought she was and it was time to finish it and move on...doesn't want to have anything to do with her accept what he has to do to co-parent. He said that he is angry, sad and relieved...it's been a hard year and he has tried everything he could....he is starting to look forward his new life.
I wonder if guys are wired differently then women...you seem to have better self preservation instincts....I'm just not ready to drop the rope yet.
Keep that anger in check....take care of yourself
Mila, I don't think that's the case. Men are certainly wired differently, but not in that respect I think. I think it is more of the LBS who was surprised that their spouse, whom they trusted and loved deeply, left.
In my case it was several years. Even before I got the bomb.
But enough is enough. For men or women. There comes a point when the leaving spouse has killed the marriage and left. Some of us are slow to catch up however
I think that's normal as well.
What makes it hard is the back and forth and the "postcards" from the other side. You cling to hope even if that's not healthy because you believe. You feel. You love. You are willing to work it out.
Eventually, you can't hold on any longer and it is time to acknowledge and move on. For some that takes longer than others. To realize that it's not you, it's them in many cases.
"it just doesn't matter" in some cases. To know, you have to go through the whole thing though. No shortcuts. No way to know you are done, until, well, you are done. If you can't say that to yourself, then keep going. If you can, then go the other direction
AJ
AJ - thank you for your thoughts on this...it's good for me to hear your perspective - What make is hard for me is the back and forth. Each time I seem to have couple of months to work on detachment and then H pulls me back in with another false R. And them I'm starting all over again. I guess I have to come to a point when I say enough is enough. I have been with him for 36 years...all of my adult life. That probably makes it more difficult...there is definitely some co-dependency that I have to work on.
As you said I will know when it's time....
36 years - co dependent? Maybe. A habit as well. A commitment you made and value? Most likely.
Don't be so hard on yourself. You are doing quite well believe it or not. Time to focus more on you though. You can't stop him, you can't help him, and you can't control him. Repeat that until it feels like you know that so you don't go crazy
AJ
Thanks AJ
Journaling:
I've been back and forth on a few things lately. I see that now. Reading other people's things helps. I realize it's over and I'm moving past her. I realize that she was hurt the other day when I called her by her given name instead of the pet name I always had. I didn't do it for that reason, but I did realize it would send a clear signal. I'm not insensitive. I'm still working through anger though. I know that. I can see it as if from a distance. I am starting to forget incidents that occurred. Details of them actually. I realized that the other day. I'm no longer bothered by things she does, but I do notice. I do still talk about her too much to friends, but there is much more "I" statements and I'm starting to actually have times with friends where we talk about other things and I like that.
The anger is no longer all the time either. I like that too. The sadness only comes and goes as well. Seems to be going further away. I'm sure it'll all come back a final time at least, but I'm finally getting away from the pain and i like that.
AJ
Journaling:
I met a woman at the gym yesterday. Linda. She is a talker! She talked my ears off for a while, and believe me, if you knew me you would know that's no small feat
We talked about all kinds of things, but then she found out I'm a former Marine. She started talking about her exH. How she left him. I pointed a few things out, and she got a really odd look on her face. She later told me she thought I was right and that exH was right at the time. I found that fascinating. It was 22 years later for her. She still wasn't done....
Spoke to a friend last night. We talked about the guilt/anger cycle. What hell that must be for somebody going through that. Glad that's no me and that I'm working very hard to get rid of the anger. I do NOT want to carry that with me. I have no guilt in this - I've made my peace with who I am a long time ago. I like me, and I realize now that much of what I was going through was getting her out of my head. She got in there many many times. Almost did the other day as well. But I'm building up antibodies to her and can more successfully keep her crazy out of my head. I see a lot of the craziness as being the outward manifestation of that guilt/anger cycle. Looking back a lot of it has been exactly that.
Funny thing is, it has not been anything that I did. Well, I guess being nice and trying to make things work no matter what, even though there were boundaries, may have taken a toll on her. By not getting angry (showing it) at her, I didn't give her an outlet nor an excuse to be angry. That led to more guilt and her searching harder to find "something" even if she had to make it up. Bizarre to my thinking, but I suspect it all makes perfect sense to her somehow. She knows, somewhere inside. But that no longer matters to me. To her, it stopped mattering a long time ago. Last summer if I had to guess. I do have to guess because that is one of those things I'll never know.
Anyway, been a good weekend so far. Monster is out of town and it's just me and the kids. Relaxing. I realize I can't relax around her because I have to be on my guard to keep her out of my head. Like watching old episodes of Star Trek when they land on a planet with aliens that look like people and they find out 20 minutes in that the people are actually trying to get in their heads. I think in this episode I'm the unknown guy with the red shirt that gets it before the science officer figures it out and stops everything in the nick of time.
Later,
AJ
Journaling:
Had a great relaxing weekend. WAS was out of town for most of it. Ended the weekend seeing the confirmands I worked with all year have their ceremony. Was great to see.
Something that was said to me last Christmas by Matt, the old running buddy came to mind today. Not sure why. He told me how my wife reminded him of how his was previously. What's odd is that mind is acting now exactly like his was when I met her. Going out of her way to be mean and nasty and "prove" how bad I am. Weird to some degree, but it came to mind. I dismissed her meanness and kept moving, but it struck me and I had to get it out of my system and into my online journal. Basically she asked if I had gotten any money from a vehicle I sold. I told her some of it. She smiled (like a dog about to bite) and asked if I had signed it over yet. I told her yes. She said, "so you gave up your leverage?" as if she had just beaten me at monopoly or something. I didn't lose it though - I just told her I work with the guy and I'm not worried about it. I'm not. But after that it struck me how much she is acting like Susan (his stbx). Bizarre how they follow the same patterns.
Next weekend should be good. It'll just be me and S13. D15 is headed out with some friends; I suggested she do it, because she was on the fence about whether or not to go or stay home with me and her brother. I think the poor kid needs a break with just friends.
More later,
AJ
It was 22 years later for her. She still wasn't done....
Why do you have to scare me like that? I don't want to be thinking about this after 2 years let alone 22 years
Now now. I'm not trying to scare but I found it interesting that there is at least hope for the WAS to figure things out for themselves at some point. I don't hate. I don't want to see bad things happen to her. I do want her to figure it out at some point, even though I will never hear that. That doesn't matter. What does is that she is another human being that I once loved (maybe still do?) and I would like her to get herself figured out.
Meanwhile, I need to start a new thread - the year of my new beginning. I'll put some thought into that and think about the content.
Journaling:
Spoke to the MC today. That was a pleasant conversation. Her advice? Not much really. She suggested that I will know I'm done when I can look back on our relationship and remember the love we once shared. I can see that she is right. Right now I'm questioning all of it and re-remembering much of it. Actually, I'm seeing it differently I think. Kind of like trying on a coat. What I find is that I have an impasse - if I don't see the love, then I picked poorly and I suck. If I did, then it's harder to let go. Hmm....
Just the same, things are progressing. I am in limbo and writing this from the foxhole of limbo land.
Actually, things aren't too bad. I remembered the part about the friends former wife and it reminds me of a way to protect myself when she gets crazy(er) than normal. Oddly, and don't shoot me for this, I've noticed that when the phase of the moon changes, so too do her moods. I've noticed for years, but was told I'm nuts. I don't think that's the case any longer. In fact, I don't doubt myself any longer. Not time for that any more.
I like me. I like my life. I like the things I'm starting to do. There are many more I hope to do. This is getting kind of fun....
AJ
When you start with "journaling" I hesitate to post to you. Sounds like you are Ok on your own. For the record: I think you are doing a good job healing.
K
Thank you Kalni. I am doing well. The journal is as much for me as it is for those that may follow later. Just to see that they are not alone.
I am healing. It's going to take time and I recognize that. I recognize that I have to let her go and that I do not have to accept the behavior she is displaying now - the meanness, the vicious attacks of character, the putting the kids in the middle of it, etc. I don't have to and really never did. I do have to accept that she wants to leave and there is not a thing I can do about that to change it. I will accept it and I will say goodbye to all that the marriage included. I will be a good parent and help my kids through all of this. I will NOT repay mean and vicious with same. I simply won't do that.
I will hold my head up knowing I did my best and then some. I will wish her the best in her journey and I will be happy for her.
At some point, all of that will be the normal behavior for me where this is concerned. I can feel it. But right now, there are some soft spots to work on such as the anger. I can use that anger to complete my own healing - searing the wounds closed until they can finish scarring. Those scars will fade over time. I don't even think it will be much more time from now. I have spent a lot of time dealing with this already, and have a good head start. It may be a few more years of course, but it won't be forever.
I recognize now (once again actually) that she apparently needs to go through this and while she could have chosen to do so in the boundaries of marriage, did not ultimately do so. I can't change that. I won't. Instead, I recognize it's time for me to move on and let her finish her journey without any assistance from me. I am unable to help and not wanted in this journey.
Take care Kalni. I appreciate you stopping by.
AJ
I can't imagine living together while you go through divorce. That's awful. At least I can go days without seeing STBXW. Keep your head up.
Honestly, it's not that bad. I get what I get. I don't have any expectations. This is not about me so there isn't anything for me to do really. She's mean and nasty towards me, but part of that is that she is not getting what she wants. Not sure what it is that she wants, but I don't think she knows. I see this as her trip and I'm not invited. Once I let go of the expectations and said goodbye to the remainder of the shared hopes and dreams, I actually find myself quite relieved. I haven't fully let go of the possibility of a future together, but I don't dwell on it any longer. The craziness? I can deal with that and I feel that I am very well.
I realize that she has absolutely nothing left to hurt me with. I think she is starting to as well, but that doesn't stop her from trying. She seems to be curious about me and the things going on in my life. That's fine with me. I leave it like that. My gift to her is that I am letting go. I am putting my anger where it belongs when appropriate and not getting carried away. In some regards I am shutting down the rest of the way. I haven't done that over time. I know that now. I have gained a great deal of perspective and I am educating myself about all kinds of aspects to this situation. It helps. I've been able to connect a lot more of the dots in a way that works for me. Whether true or not, I can't tell yet and may never be able to. But I am learning to accept more fully and honestly, most of my days are very good. Even with her in the house. I don't get sick to my stomach any longer when I see her. I honestly could care less most of the time. More and more.
So her living in the house most likely bothers her way more than it does me. That's her issue, not mine. My concerns are the kids and myself. I have no other concerns at this point.
AJ
AJ - just stopping by to say hi and to thank you for all of your help on my tread. I'm following your tread and you sure are much further down the path then I'm.
One thing I'm not sure about from your posts....are you still standing? Or are you closing the book on your M and moving on?
Mila, you are very perceptive.
I am reluctantly closing the book. I promised her I would no longer fight her on the divorce. I'm nothing if not a man of my word.
I realize that this is a journey she has to take alone. I cannot help her. I want to believe differently but it's not to be. She is moving things forward and I can change nothing. I never could be "perfect enough" and that's because this is her journey. Possibly unresolved issues from before we met.
I really can't go back to the way things were prior to all of this. But I have not yet closed the door on something new. She has for now. I have to be fore this is over.. The divorce is going to happen as far as I can tell. I cannot get sucked into the insanity and I realize even if I could change her mind I wouldn't feel that's the right thing to do at this point. I feel like she wouldn't be done with her changes and discovery. I've felt that way for a while, but discarded those feelings early on because I didn't trust my instinct. I trust them now. They have been right even when I wasn't willing to listen to them. Go figure....
Thanks Mila. It's an interesting ride - get your money's worth!
AJ
Journaling:
Received emails from WAS family. Sheesh. They are not happy. They saw this coming a few years back although not to this extent. They believe it's because of her goals and selfishness. I agree, but that's not the whole story. It's more complicated I think. I think it played a large role, but that it also led to other MLC like issues. Is what it is.
Got home yesterday and WAS started grilling me about the weekend with the kids. Kept my answers short. She truly is lost and a monster. I see that now. I don't like admitting it, but she is. She seems to be looking for a way to take the kids from me. My instinct has yet to be wrong...
At least she stayed away last night. I like that more than anything. She seems to be changing, but only in how she interacts with me. I suspect the fight we had is still weighing on her and she doesn't like the answers she is coming up with.
As long as she takes it out on me by spending more time with the kids, that shouldn't be too bad. She seems to be acting curious about what I'm doing as well. I find my mail opened, and her asking questions of the kids about what I'm doing. Not comfortable with that, because I know she is looking for something to blame me about so she doesn't have be the one that left for no reason. I have nothing to give on that one. Sounds odd, but there was nothing according to my mc and according to me, after going through several years of searching for something to be my fault. I did what I did and would not do it differently. I realize I couldn't be perfect enough for her, because she is looking for a way to make it my responsibility. That doesn't keep in line with much of the DB mentality - there must be something I can change.... There is not. Except for the part where I try to make the relationship work with somebody who is unwilling to make it work.
Many irrational things, but too many to list. I see more coming. Would be nice to sell the house, but I suspect I'll still be there in a year's time.
Not a problem though - I'm doing well and seeing things very differently and realistically. I'm not bitter. I'm sometimes angry, but I don't feel the sadness as much any more. I feel I am starting to see things as they really are. No more lies to myself. No more trying to protect me from her behavior. I just am.
Trying to not go back and look over our marriage and see the negatives. That's a sure way to get to insanity. The short of it is that she changed and what we once had is no longer to be. So be it. We were happy once. We were very much in love for many years. It was a good marriage at one point.
I'm working on it. I'm enjoying things again and I am not letting the insanity get into my head. Seems to be infectious but I'm building antibodies
AJ
Journaling:
Received text message asking for my lawyers contact information. Informed I don't have one on retainer, so no, you can't have that information yet. I'll get one on retainer when I get the papers. Replied I'll get the papers next week.
Good. Now we can move forward...
Is it just me, or is she trying to get my attention in some way and failing to do so in a positive manner is trying to do so in a negative manner? Why is my instinct telling me that is the case? No matter, it's time to move on. Can't go back and therefore can only go forward... Have to wait and see what is in store with the papers, but I'm feeling like there will be a "surprise" in there.
AJ
She wants something to happen. She wants drama. She wants reactions, she wants to be able to blame you for the mess in her head.
Kalni, I think that's correct. I have no drama to give. I can almost see how she gets angry that I am not playing along with her plans. How I won't be the one to kick her out. How desperately she wants me to do something she can point at and say, "see - this is why I'm divorcing him" I obviously can't guess what she is thinking, but that's how it feels. Bizarre and strange to me, but then again I am not really letting it get to me.
I hope the house sells sooner rather than later. I'm suspecting that things will get worse as she tries to escalate things. There is really nothing left to throw at me; no stones left that can get to me. No arrows left except things with the kids. Yet she continues to try. My concern is that she is going to involve the kids more and may escalate this to physical abuse to go along with the rest. It's tiring to stay on my guard like this...
But it continues to just be how it is. It just is and the days will continue regardless. I'll continue to protect the kids as best I can. I'll continue to protect myself as best I can, although I have nothing to really protect myself from or for; I am who I am and there is nothing left for her to take except physically. She is just trying so hard that I have to be aware of it.
One of the hardest parts of this of late, has been trying to comprehend why the anger and desire to hurt me. This is what she wanted, not me. I do now, but I'm not telling her that in words. There is no point that I can see. There is no point in talking to her that I can see. I have enough to deal with that I do not need her drama and batshit craziness.
But it is fascinating. I can admit that.
AJ
Journaling:
Had a great time with friends and my son yesterday. Went to their lake house for a barbeque and party. Just plain relaxing. Ahhhh... Then to a baseball game last night with a few friends from the local divorce support group. Still fun. All in all a good relaxing time.
The downsides were the times stbx intervened. Feels like she is trying to control things. Me. She was asking questions via my son. Not liking that. Told him that I didn't want him in the middle. His mother can ask me directly if she wants to know something and vice versa. I don't want him in the middle of that.
This morning woke up to a text from her saying she didn't come home last night and should have told me. She apologized.
That just feels controlling. On the one hand, she hasn't told me her plans or whereabouts for years, except sporadically. In previous years I saw that as part of her rebellion. The rebellion wasn't against me per se. I see that. But now? Why bother telling me? It's over, at her insistance. Why would I care where you are? Why are you annoying me with this drama and just bullshit? 'Cause it is annoying. Same as when she tries to question me about the safety of the kids, or some other aspect of what I'm doing. For crying out loud. How much more of this is there going to be?
Just feels like controlling insanity. "Do as I say, but not as I do" kind of stuff. As well as "are you there? - I want to divorce you, but I want to know you care" ?
It doesn't work like that. It cannot. That would bring me into insanity. I am letting go. I am actively working through all my feelings and letting go one piece at a time. Those were my choices before. Now it is my choice. There can be no more of this. You have made up your mind (supposedly) and I cannot be part of your life any longer. Please stop the insane thought that you will be able to influence or otherwise control my life. That's what you wanted. That's what you asked for. That's the decision you made and say you stand behind.
</venting>
I realize some of this is your own insecurity about the kids as well. I realize some of this is something else that's going on with you. I realize that you are hurt that I told you the truth about your behavior, although why you chose to be hurt I do not know; it's my opinion of your behavior and I doubt you disagree. I think it's more that you see it and don't know why you are doing it. I realize that you are upset by your behavior as is everyone that ever knew you before this began. Not your new friends of course - they validate everything and are so screwed up, likely feel good that somebody like you is more drama filled than they are. I'm projectig an opinion there, I know. But please just leave me out of it. Let me go. I am letting go of you, and have no need or desire to do otherwise. You have killed the marriage and backfilled your reasons to make it seem like you did the right thing. Ok. I accept that. I cannot do otherwise because I cannot change it. Ok. Enough already.
</now I'm really done venting
>
The text this morning annoyed me. I suspect that will not stop any time soon. No need to respond to it, but thanks for letting me vent
AJ
Journaling:
More contact from wife's aunt. She doesn't want me talking about it with family. I can understand that. She was angry with w about leaving. Showing support. Very kind, but I urged her to reconsider and see things a bit differently. There is much more to why w is leaving. Aunt figured it out - she remembered the childhood and what happened then. And w's reaction to it. While this is not all of it, it is part of the equation and needs to be dealt with. I wish her luck. I realize there is nothing I can do about it. I can't even be supportive because I have been asked to exit the ride.
I notice that w is gaining a little weight. I think that's a good thing because it means she is not running nearly as much. That likely provides a little insight into her mental state meaning she is likely calming down a bit.
we actually had a pleasant exchange of words this morning. That's a nice change and may make things a little easier until the house sells. A little less stress would be nice.
Otherwise, I'm doing pretty well. I hated getting that text yesterday. I really did. It pushes me back into the roller coaster and I don't like that. There is no need for me to be on that ride any longer.
I really do wish STBX all the best. Even with the mean and nasty comments and anger she has spewed at me. I'm slowly teaching her how to treat me. As if she has had an emotional stroke or something. But I refuse to return anger with anger. It serves no purpose and I am better than that. I will continue to be better than that. Regardless of the circumstances. I have my self-esteem to work on
AJ
Hi AJ,
Looks like you and I are working through the same issues. My stbx wants Soooooo badly to blame this all on me that (much like your stbx) she is angry and pushing and asking for the divorce, and at the same time acting like the complete victim.
I'm finally the one who is pushing the D forward. I am filing now, and my W is going to use this to be able to tell her whole family, friends, etc how agressive and thoughtless I am and how she is just the poor little victim.
This past weekend she went out in the evening and didn't return that night. The next day (before coming home) she called while I was out having fun with the kids and complained about how hard this was on her and how much she missed them.
Ugh.
I know exactly what you are dealing with.
Stay strong.
Thinker, I feel for you. I really do. Been a long road, no?
In my case, it comes and goes. She is trying to control. To pulse check. To see what I am thinking. It comes and goes, and then she spends an inordinate amount of time trying to get a reaction out of me. I more often than not don't let her.
My conversations with her aunt hurt. I actually defended her to some degree to her own family. How screwed up is that?
In fairness, there never is a time to treat somebody poorly nor to return unkindness with unkindness. There is a time for anger and there is a time to attack or defend. I see the differences now. I know this is not the time to hurt her. I could have easily done that in the past and chose not to. My instinct tells me there is a lot more to this than just leaving me. Or just giving up. I know how painful it is Thinker. I do. With kids it's even harder. But I am at a place now where I realize that I cannot change anything but me. Her issues are her issues and I have no part in them any longer - at her brutal insistence. I tried. Too much perhaps. But it is time to move on. Nothing her but old memories and a dead marriage. Time to bury it.
It fascinates how much they want to blame us and want to be the "victim". I've seen it played out in other relationships as well. Must be part of human nature to not want the guilt I guess.
Hang in there Thinker. There is a certain amount of relief in not having the question out there of how it will end any longer. But it comes at a price. I know as much as anyone that if we could have made it past this, life would have been really good. Marriages work like that. They also require two people to work at it and to not give up.
It just is.
Take care Thinker, it will get more crazy as time goes on. Thx for stopping by.
AJ
Journaling:
Had a great weekend. Mostly. The stbx is nuts I think. She lost it when the kids didn't do what she wanted. She ended up leaving. Later I got a text telling me she was staying the night at a friends.
That just seems odd to me. Why let me know where you intend to be? You want a divorce!! Shouldn't I not care where you are going to be???
Anyway, seems odd to me, but maybe that's normal behavior for a WAS/MLC type. I've been reviewing the MLC archives. Seems she fits very well there from my perspective. Lots of changes but mostly I sense fear on her part. Fear of all kinds of things. She asks me about things with the kids as if I haven't raised them by myself for the last several years while she was "away" It's offensive, but I see it for what it is as well: fear and noticing suddenly that the kids are much more grown up than when she "left". Perhaps this is her waking up a bit..? If so, then I'm glad. I've wanted the kids to have a mother they can rely on. Tried very hard to keep her connected to them. Even at my own expense I realize. I know I could have taken them from her when she left. I know that I could say things to the kids and they would hate her. None of that is the right thing to do for the kids or her.
It hurts to watch, but it gives me time to work on me and invest in me. I need that. I can't stop what she is doing, and need to work on moving on. I can see that.
I think I'll post to the MLC forum as well though. Just to get it off my chest.
AJ
Journaling:
Had a great time away. Boys weekend at the beach. I think I even saw the beach during that time
Good to get some perspective and to rejuvenate. Really helped a lot. Had drinks with a couple of female friends last night. That was relaxing as well, although it causes me to think. I like them as friends. I do. But one of them has recently left her husband (he's addicted to pain meds) and it was hard to hear some of her thinking. I don't live that life and don't judge, but it is hard to hear sometimes.
Just the same, looking forward to the week and next weekend with the kids. Had very little contact with stbx. She did ping me this morning asking about my plans. She seems to be relaxing a bit which is helpful - I don't have such an adversarial person actively trying to hurt me. That lets things quiet down a little.
House showing yesterday. One can only hope it sells, but I know better. I highly doubt it will sell any time soon. Talked to an old friend over the weekend as well and was telling her that I at least have built up my stbx-antibodies. I can survive and thrive in my own house regardless of her actions. The time away prior and just this past weekend has helped me see things differently. I'm starting to realize what has happened more and more and I understand that I just wasn't ready to listen to the counselor early on. I see what she saw back then and her comments make a lot more sense now. There really was nothing I could do, and at this point I won't. I have dropped it. I sometimes feel like I want things to have turned out differently, but I think some of that is normal. I have a long way to go to finish healing, but I am very much on the path. I can see that.
Kids seem to be doing better. I was reading somewhere that when they sense that their parents can handle it, they begin to express their own feelings. I hope that is correct because I see that they need that opportunity. I hope for them it happens sooner rather than later.
AJ
You will also find that when your kids sense you are better, they will start getting into trouble more. Not anything major, just more like "normal". They have probably been pretty good for the most part during this tough time. At least that has been my experience.
Mine are back to being kids!
kat
Thank you Kat. I think that's true. I'm looking forward to that because they don't deserve to have to put their life on hold like that. :0)
Journaling:
As expected, I finally got the sep papers. Not sure why the delay, but I figured it would be anytime and it turns out it was last night. I'm not upset about it. That surprised me. I'm actually kind of glad to not have to look for them every day when I get home. That's a nicer feeling. Feels like one more step forward.
I reflected back a little today. I realize I have no regrets. Nothing left unsaid nor undone. Not one thing. I'm very happy about knowing that if given another chance, I would not change a single thing I did or said given the same information all over again. I'm just ready to move on and need the house to sell. Anyone looking for a house in this area?
AJ
Journaling:
Perhaps I got through to her during that fight. Since then she has not been the absolute monster she has been. I did receive the papers the other day, but that's not the same as being a monster towards me every waking moment of the day. Still not relaxing to be in my own home, but that's to be expected if you ask me.
She has also been more of a mom to the kids. I view that as a positive thing for everyone and I am happy to see that.
I am ready for the house to sell. Not sure what to do to get it to sell faster, but that will have to take care of itself. Like I mentioned yesterday, no regrets, no looking back and wishing what if. Nothing more but to move on and I'm more and more ready each day. Limbo kind of sucks, but that's also to be expected I think. Just have to wait it out and as long as she stops trying to actively hurl hurts and insults, it shouldn't be too bad. I'm mostly easy-going, so the lack of respect for planning doesn't bother me very much. I can adjust at a moment's notice and I'm happy to do so where it concerns the kids. Time to focus more on them and make some adjustments to get them moving.
AJ
AJ - just stopping by to say hello. Good to see that your W is little bit more relaxed and better with the kids. It must be extremely hard to still be in one house.
You seem at peace or maybe resigned...accepting the situation and ready to move on. I hope that the house sells fast.
Limbo does suck
All the best AJ
Thank you Mila. I've been in limbo for a very long time, looking back. It sucks, but you know what? I have grown so very much, I can't say I am sorry to have been there. I'm not sure the growth I've experienced in that time would have occurred as quickly had I not been under this pressure.
Journaling:
Huh. Two different female friends I spoke to this week related similar stories to me about what a WAW/MLC'r was doing to their husbands. It clicked for me this morning about just how angry and spiteful mine has been and the lengths she has gone to in order to justify her behavior wrt to other men and lifestyle. I realized some of that early on, but the connections come when they come I've found. The further I step back the more I see. The more I get the perspective I have been after for so long.
That brings me peace strangely enough. I accept that the marriage is over. I see that. I am feeling it more and more and I think I need her to be out of the house to take that next step. She made her decisions and I am going to live with them but on my own terms.
I see now that my decision to try and make the marriage work was absolutely the right decision. I needed to know I did what I could without holding back or being distracted. I guess a part of me was revisiting that part of the past few years. Just making sure I did everything I could. I realize I did more than that and that is why I was so empty. That's the "why" I craved for so long. I see that now as well. I didn't crave a "why" she is doing what she is doing. I thought I did. I craved a "why" am I doing what I'm doing. I did of course wonder why she was doing what she was doing, but the reality of it is that I can only accept or not accept what she does. I cannot change it, so knowing "why" doesn't help to fix anything. I used to think it did.
This has become a fascinating journey. A lot of beauty as I stand back and look around and let go. As I say my final goodbyes. I am in awe. I am reminded that He will make all things work to His good, but how it gets there is incredibly fascinating to me as stand back and see it.
I am no longer feeling intense sadness or anger. I received the papers the other day and I barely noticed. She texted me this morning and I barely could care. Just business. I like it that way. Feel very peaceful and like this is the way I am meant to do things. That I did things the right way and will not have regrets about it even later. That I did the right thing for the kids and for her as well.
Peace to you and yours,
AJ
Journaling:
Had my teeth worked on today by stbx. She's a third year dental student. Does good work. She will be a great dentist to be sure. But I was talking to a friend last night and brought up that whenever she gets around me she starts humming a song. Like a nervous tic. I'm concerned that I may have to be concerned for my own protection. I don't know this person she has become. At all. I can't trust her and since we still have to live together I know I need to pay attention to my protective instincts. I'm wondering how much I should be concerned. For now I'll let it go, but will have to continue to consider if it's a threat. I also noticed she was very inquisitive of my prescription history today. Should be innocuous, but it wasn't. Again, my suspicious instinct is kicking in and telling me she was looking for something in there. I suspect she thinks I'm on anti-depressants. I'm not. I had them prescribed, but never could take them. They don't do good things for me...
Anyway, looking forward to getting some sleep and enjoying the weekend. Have a big weekend planned and then father's day. Should be good.
Peace to you and yours,
AJ
Journaling:
So far, stbx has been civil. That's still helpful, but as you can tell from my post, I am not in a trusting position. In the past, when she did things at my expense, she has done this as well. I have not yet taken the latest revision of the sep agrmnt to the lawyer and returned it to her. Just haven't had time.
I'm working hard at detaching. I've also been reading up on divorce and the toll it can take as well as the process. I see many things differently now. She has been actively divorcing me for quite some time. Ever since she returned from California there has been little to no change other than guilt/anger on her part. I see that now, much more clearly. All of the strange behavior has fit fairly well into the process map. Still is really. What I also realize is that there was nothing I could have done differently. I'm glad I did the things I did. It never has been about me really. I know that sounds to the readers here like I'm denying. I'm not. Believe me I've searched for my own issues to see what they are. I've found a few and corrected those to be a way I can live with. This seems more about a power struggle at some level. I have felt that for a long time, that she wants to control me and then wanted me to be her father figure as well. I've journaled about it in the past.
Water under the bridge. I journal it to get my thoughts out, but I realize there is no going back. That there is no way to change her mind and now not to change mine. I won't say never, because I've learned to not do that, but I see that the marriage is dead. Ironically, I know that's the point at which things can be different. They won't be at her insistence. Mine now as well because that's the choice I have. I am learning to accept it and working diligently to detach. Part of detaching is letting go and letting her succeed or fail based on her own choices. It's just as I do that my brain makes connections that before weren't possible for me to do. For whatever reason.
I realize I'm heartbroken. I was devastated. I was angry. I was hurt. To some degree, I still am many of those things, but nearly as much as before. Progress? Or quiet before the storm? Time will help me figure that out as well.
Detaching seems the key and the way out of this way of life for me. I'm enjoying the time I have to me. I look back and realize I wasn't always able to be myself. I didn't have a partner the whole time. I had an adversary that wanted to control me. I won't be controlled like that. In some regards, she has done me a favor and I suspect I'll look back on this as one of the best things that ever happened to me. I can see that possibility now because if it wasn't her, it may have been me at a later time. I've grown and learned so very much since I became aware of this. I still have no idea what it was she wasn't getting in her relationship, but I realize that's not because I didn't ask or try. I have only to let her go at this point and to psychologically divorce her to go with the physical aspect of the divorce. I am well on my way to that and I feel like I am at a critical juncture of that process. The marriage is dead, I am moving on, and I am still making connections in my head about the past.
We did have a lot of great years together. Right up until the summer before her nephew died when she started pulling away. She may have seen it differently. I don't know the answer to that and may never understand what happened from her perspective. It will have to be that way.
Detaching is not easy. For those that read this later, part of detaching is to let go and let the WAS/MLC'r/? feel the consequences of their decisions. To let them go and let them make their own way. It's a growing up time, and for ourselves can also be. I am glad I am growing. It has been and to some degree continues to be a painful experience, but as the old saying goes, growth is painful. Truth is, pain fuels growth but the effect is the same
Happy Father's day to all out there. While the result of divorce doesn't seem necessary, I do wish my stbx all the best in her new life and I wish her continued success and happiness. I hope she finds it sooner than she expects to find it.
AJ
Journaling:
Ah. The past. Always nice to have it crop up when you don't want it to.
Spoke to old running buddy. He really is in a lot of pain. He really does have the best of intentions. But he can hurt me if I'm not careful. I see that.
Know what though? I need to go through that. I need that last of of the pain to be exorcised. To be felt and then exorcised for good. He pointed out some inappropriate behaviors stbx had shown in the past and his part in trying to stop her. I believe him actually. Whether I should or not, I choose to.
These are her choices - not his. Now that the marriage is over, I expect that these things have to be gone over to be felt for the finality of it. And truthfully, it helps because it helps me to remember that I have to look out for my best interests.
AJ
Journaling:
I see that I was right about facing the running buddy and the things he can say that may hurt. I really do need to face the truth as part of moving on. I think I've avoided hearing some of the truth in the past and it's time to face it if it comes up. I'll meet with him on Wed. He's a bit scatter brained right now due to his own personal issues, but it's a good idea for me to see him now. I can help nudge him through this a bit, but I also need some of the information he has to finish clearing all of the garbage out.
Sometimes it sux to be right, but I feel this is the right thing to do.
Nothing much else to report. Had a great time with friends last night. I realize how important friends are to me and how much I didn't allow myself to have them while we were married. I really do enjoy people and my friends. I love crowds the most. I missed that and I see an opportunity to do more of that now.
Life really is good. I missed that for a while when I was not focused on the good things in life.
AJ
Journaling:
The running buddy didn't make it. I figured that might happen. He is a flake, but I suspect there's a little more to it than that. That's ok, I need to clean this part of my garbage out. Not sure why, but I feel like it's time.
My daughter is starting to show her anger. I take that to indicate two things: She is noticing my changes and she feels safe to start expressing her anger and frustration. I know that's a good thing, but it is hard to see. I have to trust that it will be ok and I've also started reaching out to find help dealing with it. My son has not yet started to really act out his frustration and anger, but I think he doesn't yet know the full impact. Daughter sees it a bit more readily.
Life is truly good to me. The possibilities are opening up faster and faster. I suspect they have been there all along, but I have been buried in such a way I could not see them. That fog is lifting/lifted. It is still painful, but becoming less painful and more positive.
Still, there is a small part of me that wishes for the 11th hour save. I know that won't happen. I don't know that I really want it to as much as I like a happy ending. The happy ending in this case is going to be me writing it. I like that. Just part of the letting go and acceptance phase I think. Having to live in the same house is really putting a slowdown on the process I think. Causes a lot of confusion for the kids. Can't be helped.
STBX - I do notice things. It's my nature and since we live in the same house I do notice things. I notice she is keeping her distance and tends to hum when around me. I suspect I know now what that is about - I think it's like a child that is trying to block out thoughts by covering their ears and humming to themselves. She does the same when around me. It's weird, but it is what it is. I notice she is drinking more - I have to watch that because I cannot let her put the kids in danger. She also is noticing that I've changed. I had to ask myself have I changed or not. I have. When I think about her I have a hard time feeling like I care about her. I suspect I do a little still but more like I care for any of God's critters - I don't want to see bad things happen to her, but I don't really care much either way. Seems a little odd, but I don't have much in the way of feelings towards her any longer. When I look inside, they are just gone.
Anger is what I need to some degree. To be able to deal with the legal issues. But I don't even have that. Just nothing but some fond memories and the knowledge that the person living in my house and taking advantage of me looks like somebody I used to know. Reminds me of a past, deep love.
AJ
... fond memories and the knowledge that the person living in my house and taking advantage of me looks like somebody I used to know. Reminds me of a past, deep love.
Amen!
and now, like me, it's time to just focus on getting this person (who is living in your house and taking advantage of you) out of your house and your life in the most reasonable and practical way permissible within the law and the constraints of your situation.
Thanks Thinker. Really, I don't feel the need to do much with her right now. My guess is that she will take that next step even if I do nothing. I can't think of anything that can really be done that is to my kid's advantage nor to my detriment, so I see no reason to really do much right now. I do have to get a lawyer arranged, but I don't feel like that has to be immediate. I suspect I'll have to have one by next month, because I think she'll try to move out. That sets in motion a bunch of legal things I'll need to be concerned about, but even then I'm not terribly concerned. There really and honestly is not much more she can do to hurt me short of physical or to do something to the kids. I really am at that point where I feel lazy towards this situation. There is nothing to do to change it, and I've come this far. I see no benefit in fighting back to beat her down. She plays enough stuff in her head about me that I can honestly do nothing and she'll still think I did from what I have seen. I don't know. I don't talk to her really. I say hello but that's about it and only if I have to. I don't feel the need to do anything else.
Thanks for the thoughts. I'm not concerned and totally at peace with myself. I'm concerned about my kids but I realize I can only control my actions and that's what I intend to do. Everything else is inconsequential and pretty much burned away. Finances will be as best they can but it will be a big hit. I don't care about money anyway, so that's not a big deal. The house has to be sold - that's a done deal. Everything else is just material and can be rebuilt or repurchased over time. I want new memories anyway, so most of the household goods I take will likely be sold anyway to finance the new things I need/want after the move and subsequent divorce.
It was the emotional connection I hung onto. The love I had for her. I've had to consciously let that go over the past years and especially the past months since I agreed to not fight her on the divorce.
It haunted me for a long time when the MC told me that I'll be done and she'll make up her mind then. I think the follow on conversation was around how she won't remember it as her walking away. She'll protect herself and those thoughts will be buried deeply and walled off most likely. I think that's the case. I don't see her ever seeing this as something she decided to do. I think she had to protect herself and I don't fault her for that. She made her decisions regarding how to handle her feelings and that is really just that. The end. No more to it than that. Regardless of why. I see no reason to befriend her right now. Everytime I do, she tries her very best to hurt me in anyway she can. I have taken the approach of letting go so as to stop that. It went on for several years both before the bomb and after. I won't let her hurt me any longer. And to do that I cannot be friends with her. Nor do I really want to any longer. I am not a masochist.
Anyway, thanks for helping me get those thoughts out. I still do treat her cordially and well. I say used and abused, but really I allow it so it's not all her. I choose now to not allow it the mean and nasty behavior. That's all I have energy for at the moment regarding her.
AJ
Journaling:
As expected, stbx gave me a (yet again) revised copy of the sep papers. Weird though - she has always been very careful of spelling etc. Really bad spelling this time.
Anyway, as expected she wants to move out by the beginning of august. Tried to put it on me "as best for all of us" I resent that. But whatever right? I've let go, and it's time to just take care of the legalities and make sure I am protected at this point. It's not lost on me that this is a MLC of some sort. But her choices are her choices. She is lost in her own world and I find that sad yet I recall that it was her choice. I recall the mean and hateful things she has done and said. I recognize that this is not the person I knew. I have to be vigilant and careful as she tries to manipulate things to try and hurt me. She will. Of that I feel certain.
I suspect she will try to battle over the kids. It's really all she has left to try and hurt me with. But for the first time I am very clear on how that has to be handled. I know that I will NOT let the kids get caught in the cross-fire. They can do what they need to do and I'll give them that room. They deserve and need some room while also having a father with is faculties about him. I will be that father. Even if I have to let them go or not fight back in some circumstances. I am not a doormat but my kids deserve their own life and for me, this is temporary while the kids grow up.
As for the conversation via email yesterday - not sure why but she made assumptions that were untrue about the monetary situation. She also made assumptions about the agreement and tried to tell me she didn't want to put more burden on me but wants me to pay things for her to move out. I said no, I would stick by my original agreement and will. But I cannot accept the changes she made. She didn't think she made any so I asked her if she read the document from her lawyer. That was the end of the conversation, but I'm sure there will be more as the month wears on.
What really surprises me is that I don't feel a lot of emotion around this. This just is. Given all the time I was so wound up, to not feel very much is a surprise. Albeit a welcome one.
I've changed some things about how I view this situation. I'm back to viewing it as her journey and now I'm just letting it go as much as and as fast as I can.
By posting here I'm sure you can tell I still think about it. But I envision a happy future without her in it. I'm less caught between the two worlds than I was and I know I have to keep my head in the reality that is to protect myself and my kids. To do less is not an option.
I don't think that by thinking about it I am not detaching. I am detaching faster and more completely as time goes on. But I do notice her curiousity and jealousy if for no other reason than it is different than previous behavior.
This was not what I wanted. But since I'm here.....
AJ
You talk about her journey -- I guess I no longer care about her journey. I don't want to know about it. I don't want to hear about it. I'm on my own journey.
CTH, I'm not sure I follow?
I can't say that I no longer care completely. That would be untrue. I care less than I ever did, but I don't completely not care. I wish her well. I honestly do. I can see this is not a journey I would want to take in that fashion. I did anyway. I hated it. Every moment of it. But I look back and see the beauty of it and how it has given me a chance to grow in ways I didn't imagine at the time. This has not been a bad thing for me.
I am often like a cat - I fall, but I land on my feet. I am not a victim. I am not a survivor. I am simply me.
Journaling:
Nothing new to report really. Daughter is acting up more, but I expect that will continue as she moves more back to being a normal teen. I look forward to that. I want her to have a chance to be a teen. I get the feeling she is progressing well on that path. Son is doing same.
What's next for me? Who knows? I'm just taking it one day at a time. I realize there will be more ups and downs. More like swells on the ocean now. Trying to give back to friends that have helped me and even those that haven't. I have more to give now and feel I can do that.
AJ
Journaling:
Had a very nice conversation with a lady friend last night. She is going through some tough times while she tries to figure out what to do next. Her husband is an addict. She loves him deeply but doesn't trust him. Trust is very important to her.
I was glad for the chance to help and encourage her to work it out and get him help. They love each other very much but there is also a lot of anger. I can relate to some of it because of my past experiences, but then some of it I cannot. I hope I was able to help as I've been helped.
Nothing else really to report. I feel a little bit of a funk coming on. No good reason but I'm guessing things are just catching up to me a little. That's ok. I need to face these things and clear the decks for my own sanity.
Wife is working to move out by the end of the month. That should help and yet cause issues at the same time. The house isn't likely to sell any time soon in this market, but I won't worry about that. It will happen when it's time and not before. I know that.
I was reflecting earlier today and that may be why I am in a funk. I was thinking that I have learned a great deal. I'm on more solid ground now but still not quite fully myself. But I've learned that patience is the right answer no matter what. I learned that I really did love her that deeply. I know that I do not any longer, although I still care. My feelings are still changing, but much more slowly than before. Things are slowing down in that way. I care that she is ok, but I don't feel like I have to watch her or take care of her any longer. I don't feel possessive although it would probably hurt the first time I saw her with somebody else. Not sure what else there is to do to move on, but I'm actively looking inwards at myself to see what else needs to change. That's the reflectiveness.
Still, life is good. I'm really enjoying things I do and my kids although I am not spending enough time with them. I'm working that part out.
AJ
Journaling: Was in a reflective mood for the past few days. I feel like I'm coming out of that. Moving on.
Earlier in the week STBX sent me a revised edition of the sep agreement and in it, changed much of what we had discussed. She was acting "weird" but I've come to expect that. She was also pushing me to get a lawyer sooner rather than later. I see no reason to work on her schedule. At all. I already know I cannot agree to the sep as written. She seemed to think it was the same as we had discussed and I had to ask if she even read it. Go figure. I realize this is her MLC, but can't help and I know it. I know I can't be treated this way no matter the reason.
I barely feel anything towards her any longer. I had anger. I had loathing. I still do sometimes, but mostly it's just not much of an emotion towards her other than annoyance. And defensiveness because I know I have to defend against some of this.
Still saddens me sometimes to see this formerly wonderful person do these things. I realize it's something she is going to do and likely has to do, but I also realize I do not know her. She is a stranger and I have to treat her as such. The sadness comes from her reminding me of somebody I used to know.
Big weekend planned with the kids. Should be fun. They are spending time with their mom tomorrow which I still see as a good thing for the kids. I'm glad I didn't just burn everything to the ground when the chance was there. I'm very glad for their sake. Hers as well. It's who I am and while many friends tell me to take action against her etc, I don't feel that is the right thing to do for me. I do not hate her. I sometimes feel sorry for her, and I get angry when she mistreats the kids, but that doesn't seem abnormal to me.
I've changed as well. I've grown quite a bit and I can feel myself growing again. I think that's part of why the reflectiveness.
Happy Fourth of July!
AJ
Journaling:
Weekend was great! Had a really good time with the kids. Fourth of July fireworks with the kids and friends. Took daughter driving yesterday and mall'd around a bit. Took son to the movies with this friends. Went running last night with friends. All in all, very relaxing and very nice weekend.
Spoke to an old friend yesterday. He pointed out that wife's entitlement has been going on for close to six years and to be careful because of the manipulation. He's right and I hate that he is. I realize there is nothing I can do about it, but I also realize it won't stop for quite some time. Years. I'm so tired of the junk she keeps throwing at me and the attempts to control me and yet walk away without any responsibility. To that end, when she changed the sep agreement we had worked out, I decided I'll shop around for a different lawyer. A friend suggested I get a woman lawyer which makes sense to me. I don't want things to be ugly, but I cannot give anything else.
As I mentioned before, it saddens me to see this previously wonderful person be so vindictive and manipulative, seething with anger and entitlement. It's way off the scales with how far she takes it. I realize that while I'm not perfect, I've done nothing to deserve what she is doing and that helps. I knew a while back I couldn't go back and have nothing left to give. I've extended myself beyond what I could offer before and now that she changed the sep agreement from what we had, I see it as time to fix that.
Daughter started to open up to me this weekend about what's going on. I see that as a good thing and I hope she does more. She has had several bouts of anger (fury?) and also some times where she can talk more openly about what's going on. She seems to sense that she can talk to me about it more and is already making plans as to how she will handle things. I hope that continues. I also hope that son will eventually start to open up as well. He hasn't really spoken about it at all except to talk about wife's new friends.
Another old friend that went to the beach with her confided in me (I didn't ask) that she really wasn't happy about the time spent. Said it wasn't the same and that wife was just texting like a teen the whole time and really wasn't "present". I feel sorry for the friend although she also sees what is happening.
Waiting for a call from the new lawyer to setup a consult. I realized that the legal aspects are such a small part of this and it doesn't really mean much to me. But I also realize that it is important to make sure things are done equitably and that I set a good example to the kids. And that I fight for the kids rights in this. Don't have to get ugly about it, but it does need to be done and I hope the new lawyers can help me do that.
Still causes some sadness from time to time. Mostly I don't think about it much any more.
AJ
. I realized that the legal aspects are such a small part of this and it doesn't really mean much to me.
Hi AJ,
It is important to get the legal aspects done right and to get the agreement documented in a manner and level of detail that is specific and enforceable.
With your stbx's level of entitlement and habit of changing agreements to suit her needs, a detailed, specific and firm agreement is the only way you will be able to detach and move on with rebuilding your life.
Hi AJ, I haven't been posting much, but I do follow along. Just wanted to comment on the kids. My D would not talk about it in any depth either, just has these comments every time her dad does something hurtful or insensitive....like "that's retarded"... teen vocabulary lol.
And when I would say "you must be looking forward to spending time with dad" she would say "Whatever, I don't really care". Not sure if it's for my benefit, or if the anger is brewing under the surface.
I guess every child is different....OW's H told me that his older boy (14) is openly angry with his mother.
Just watch them and if you feel that they are not coping in a healthy manner please get them some help. They may not talk to us but they will open up to others.
Take care
Thanks guys. I am aware of the legal and kid issues. I'm just not at a place (yet) where I can see the clear way forward. The legal aspects are becoming clear so long as they don't hurt the kids. For the kids, I'm paying very close attention and will be talking to the counselor this month as soon as I can get the next appt. I appreciate the feedback.
Journaling:
text from stbx this morning. She is starting to move the remainder of the bills to my name only. Taking herself off the bills. That's progress and it's nice to see her act happy and act like she cares about the kids. I say "act" because I really cannot tell. But I sense that there is a shallowness there and that there is the sep "high" going on. Just the same, it'll be nice to remember the woman that reminds of me of somebody I once loved as a happy person. Strangely it brings a little peace.
Waiting for that call back from the new lawyer's office. Would like to get things moving in some respects, but in others I see that things will happen when they happen. I have the time and have many other things to get done anyway. I need to start making a list I think so I can get the bank accounts etc. I don't know if stbx is expecting the bank accounts to be shut down or not, but I hope she is.
AJ
Journaling:
Not much to report really. Tired. Need to sleep more, but the social life is really getting in the way
Daughter was having more issues last night. Son as well. Seems they are really irritated. I see that as a good thing and mostly normal. Need to let them get it out and for the most part I am. They are also testing to see where I am in all of this. We're having more conversations about things and that seems to help. I suspect my daughter is angry thinking that I am letting her mom walk all over me but is smart enough to see that she may not see everything. She's a smart kid. She doesn't see it all and doesn't see where I am heading with this. Or why I did what I did.
I can honestly look back and say I was honest with what I did and why I did it. I have no regrets and I know that I tried everything I could to make things work. I needed to do that for me, for my stbx, and for my kids.
Still waiting for the call back from the lawyer. Followed up but expecting to hear back today or tomorrow.
Not much else to report really. Just waiting until the consult and will continue to separate bills and banks accounts.
AJ
My favorite quote today comes from another member:
"Our past is just how we got here."
Nice reminder. A nice reminder how we sometimes, even when things are painful and we feel like we are being done wrong, are reminded that God comes into our lives and shows us that we can forgive. That we can move on. That we can face our darkest fears and biggest hurts. And that we can still be free to be ourselves and continue to stand on our own feet.
It is also a reminder that who we are is not defined by our past. It is defined in the present and we still have the future to continue to reach our potential.
I love the people and things we find in this community.
AJ
Journaling:
Sometimes in the quiet moments the ghosts come back to haunt. I know it's because of the changes that are going on. But I feel them less. I allowed myself to feel everything. I still do. But I recognize that I have a way to go still. I don't believe the answer is just time. I think there is more to it than that. I think that part of GAL'ng is to actively seek to retrain ourselves. Cognitive Dissonance is part of that as well. Working on me is something that includes much of that. Good thing I like me
What really sparked my interest in journaling was the realization of the sequence of events. i realize my wife is having a MLC of sorts. Perhaps more complicated than that. But I can look back and see the fracture. I looked back and realized I described it as being "as if she has had an emotional stroke". I see now it is very similar to that indeed.
Love is a choice. In this case the fracture occurred and then there was a rebuilding. During that rebuilding, she chose not to love. The rebuilding is still going on. The mourning of the marriage is still going on. I am to some degree as well. I see that. But then I also see that I am and have changed very much in even the last few months. I am changing constantly.
I am not angry. I am not really saddened. I am thinking about the situation more than I should. It prevents me from living my life. Almost obsessive. For that reason I'm going to take a break from the boards for a while. Time to more aggressively retrain my brain. Focus on me and the the kids and the things that need my immediate attention. And only those things.
I'll be back....
AJ
We are here when you are ready or need us!
hang in there, kat
Journaling:
I'm doing very well. She moved out yesterday. Good. No more having to live in the same house. She seemed surprised when I politely declined her offer to pay her phone bill and to store my stuff at her new house. I was very clear however that I do not trust her and do not want to be joined in any way.
Of course, she responded with something about her lawyer. Not surprised.
Came home to an empty house. The good part is that it's much easier to clean.
Have been reading more from Gucci's thread in newcomers. Good advice I think. Things I thought I knew before being brought back into focus. Like reconnecting with parts of myself. Absolutely right - let them go free. The sooner the better.
I know in my case it was very important that my children see it this way. It was very important that they see their mom leave and not me. It was very important for me to to know that I did everything I could think of to save my marriage. That I left nothing undone. I can say that is the case.
I can also say I would never recommend to anyone that they put up with the crap I've put up with. Nobody deserves that. Took me a while to really see how to deal with it though. She's a craft one.
My father made me nervous the other day. He mentioned that she won't stop antoginizing me for a long time. He mentioned that he thinks she won't be satisfied until she feels like she "won" and that won't happen until she feels like I "lost". I don't get that, but I can't dispute it either. My lawyer appt is next week and I am looking for some way to protect myself and my kids from her in the future. Hope he can offer some advice in that arena. By protect I mean protect from her legally harassing me. I know she will have much more disposable resources when she graduates and I can see where she may try to use them. Sad, but I can see it.
Anyway, just keeping busy getting some replacement furniture and a grill. Not sure what else is missing just yet, but still looking around and gathering whatever she forgot and putting it into bags.
I miss my kids.
AJ
I was lucky in that when I moved out my kids came with me for the first week, so I had a bit of a buffer. What are your custody and visitation arrangements?
I am sorry AJM. It doenst make sense but it is what it is. Hang in there. You sound strong, hope you are feeling strong too.
K
Thanks guys. Current visitation is M&Th with her, Tu&Wed with me and every other weekend.
Journaling:
Was a lot of fun to be in a mostly empty house. Made the best of it and could hear the laughter echoing off the walls.
While sitting where the table used to be, I opened the mail to find a card from church congratulating us on the 19th wedding anniversary. That's when I started laughing...I see the irony and humor in things again and I like that.
I interviewed two lawyers over the past few weeks. After the first one I had a therapist appt and while talking to her, it was apparent that wasn't the right lawyer. She didn't know him and he was very interested in litigating. I'm not. That's not what this is about. The therapist recommended several that she labeled as competent. She was right. The lawyer I talked to earlier in the week is very sharp and is not just interested in litigating. I like that. She is more about damage limitations. Limiting the money stbx is going to get etc. I told her I did NOT want to mess with the custody unless very clear it was for the best interests of the kids. I don't see that being an issue right now.
On that note, it's not lost on me that she wants joint custody and yet will hardly be there with the kids. Her mom has been helping her out with the transportation etc of the kids. The kids are NOT happy. I don't blame them. They want to spend time with their mom and she is unavailable - either school or friends seem to get in the way. Can't change that but I notice for the kids sake. I'll keep watching.
Talking it over with the therapist she mentioned it is unusual that couples that come to her have 16 years of a good marriage (it was) and then suddenly one partner just leaves like this. Says she has seen it, but it is not usual. I agree. It is what it is, but it is anything but normal in this situation. I think that's why it has been so hard to come to terms with for me. Christmas was good and then by the following summer she wanted out and hated me. Hard to understand.
I realize now that you can't rationalize the irrational.
I also realize she won't stop trying to control me and won't stop trying to hurt me just because we don't live together. She is still trying. It's weird. I mentioned to the therapist that it was hard to deal with her statement that, "you'll be done and then sometime after that she'll make up her mind." That made things tough to deal with this.
That's behind me now. I realize that while I still hurt, it's not nearly as much as before and I realize that there is no going back. It won't be possible. Only forward. Deal with the pieces and move on.
But I do have to be careful to structure things so that she cannot antagonize in the future. She'll have many more resources to do that.
I got a text from her the other day about my son "freaking out" because there was a car in the driveway. My friend left a car in the driveway and when my son came to the house he thought it was somebody looking at the house. The neighbor called the stbx (why they didn't call me, I don't know), and asked about it. That came to me as "you should tell your son what to expect. I don't care what you do or who you do it with, but you should let him know when there is a car in the driveway." I had already had the conversation with my son, but that's irrelevant for the conversation. I was surprised to hear her even bring that up. I am very clear how she feels about me. In fact, I resent that she even brings it up like that. Feels controlling and mean for some reason. Maybe I'm just sensitive....
Meanwhile, just putting my house and life back together still. Getting some traffic on the house which seems a good thing. Just have to see how that goes. Tough market to sell anything.
AJ
Oh, almost forgot: she moved out a few weeks ago. I got a text on a Tuesday and she was gone Friday. Been a while since I was here on the boards...
AJ
Journaling:
And so it continues. She is still trying to tell me about herself. Unnecessary things about her schedule and such. It grates on my nerves, but only a little.
Lawyer is hired. House price is lowered for the weekend. Daughter is with her and son is going with his grandfather to california for a week for his birthday.
Birthday celebration at home was fun, although I was coming down with some illness and got really sleepy later in the evening. Son seemed to enjoy the time though.
Sent more stuff to her that is hers including the Christmas present I didn't give her. It was a repaired ring I gave her when we were dating that later broke. Also her original engagement ring which had been broken a few years ago and not repaired.
As for me, I feel a coldness I thought I already had. Weird. That coldness extends to quite a few things, but it struck me as odd that I feel cold now. I thought I had already been there. Truth is I have, but apparently there is more.
I'm starting to suspect there will be more for a long time to come. I'm ok with that though. Which also surprises me
More later,
AJ
Journaling:
Nothing much to report. More traffic on the house. Maybe it will sell? Who knows...
More texts from STBX. Didn't grate on me as much, but my conversations with the lawyers and therapist has been. I realized that this morning. My issue was more around the time lines (can you tell?) and the rehashing of the story. I think that caused it to come back. Doesn't help that I've been burning the candle at both ends as well. I suspect I'm over tired. That's ok, knowing it helps and I'm starting to cut back on some things to help.
I recall the therapist telling me that we are a bit unique from what she's seen. Different than most. That I'll be done and sometime after that STBX will make up her mind. That this would have happened now or in a few years, but that it was bound to have happened. That has haunted me for a bit, and the lawyers questions brought that all back up.
Is what it is and that's how it will be. There can be no other way, and I like that. The ambiguity that went on for so long was enough to kill a horse; thankfully I'm not a horse, although I sometimes play one on the internet...
AJ
Journaling:
Not really too much to talk about. I'm finally starting to realize that I've been very tired and over-doing things as of late. Very much headed for burn out. Seems to keep me busy though. That's been different than how I have been, but I'm guessing it's a defensive mechanism. And it is not a bad thing. Just that I'm tired and can feel that I need a break very soon.
I'm going to take my D to the amusement this weekend. I promised her I would last year when we tried and the place was closed. Different one this time. Should be fun.
Ciao!
AJ
I'm going to feel like that in about a month. I packed a lot into the summer with my girls and now I'm in a stretch where I'll have them on the weekend or be working my second job for four straight weeks. Plus, my gig with running the scoreboard starts in two weeks.
So lots of extra money, but little time for anything else.
It keeps my mind occupied though. Have fun at amusement park. I took my daughters to Six Flags Great America last week. Fun ... but how the money flew away.
Journaling:
Oh yeah. The money flew! But it was a lot of fun. We rode the rides until we were both sick
Update: STBX picked up the kids early on Monday without telling me. I had texted to ask about the evening arrangments and she informed me that she was picking up the kids right then and taking them to the dentist and ortho. WTF, right? So I responded and let her know that was great but that in the future to please let me know ahead of time (be kind and courteous) if you want same behavior. Her response? They will be at your house tomorrow for dinner.
I don't know about you, but I've played the respect game before. I know how it works. I work with it every day. So....
For right then I let it sink in. But it infuriated me. I'll admit that. The cheek to want to manipulate (my feelings) me and control things. Similar to her texting me she doesn't care who I do things with. Bah. STFU, OK? That would be better for all concerned. </rant>
But in the end, she started to "communicate" better about the kids yesterday letting me know things. I did text her later on Monday asking about the results of the appts. She called me and I later called her back (busy at work - couldn't answer the phone for her when she called.)
The annoyance is that she seems to be trying to control things. While she has backed off some of the entitlement behaviors for now(?) I still expect basic respect. Maybe I'm wrong about that. Maybe I should expect nothing except that would be less than I expect from people walking down the street much less the kids mother.
It occurred to me when I woke up this morning some of what I had been seeing. The cowardly bitch of a woman. (again, I'm ranting - anger comes and goes right?) She was angry and acting the fool towards me for that time to try and get me to be the one to leave and to divorce her. I honestly think she was too much of a coward to do otherwise. But that's also strange because the signals were so mixed.
Can you tell I also went to the counsellor the other day? So much to think through.....
Anyway, enough of that. Much more work to do and need sleep.
Peace,
AJ
Journaling:
Is that an epiphany I hear?
Started reading Dr Dobson's Love must be tough. Had it around and needed something to read anyway....
Huh. What it talks about is interesting. Helps me see things differently.
I see the dynamics of what happened very differently. I see how much better off I am now. I get it more and more. That'll be helpful in my next relationships.
Kids are not as well as I'd like. I realize that's going to be like that. Nothing I can do about that except be there for them in a supportive way.
Life is good. Was rough for a few days while my mind processed some things. But I see it differently now. The processing seems to be more complete for now. I suspect it'll come back in the future, but it is what it is. I feel a step closer to releasing this "junk".
AJ
Journaling:
It's always something, isn't it?
Last night saw her out in town. Her weekend with the kids and I have to admit it pissed me off to see her out in town. This after she asked for money to help pay for her car.
The lawyer made it clear it would be cheaper to help with the car payment than to pay for her lawyer. GRRRRRR....
Finally got some sleep, but need more. Will work on that today.
Really looking for the divorce lawyer to hurry the heck up. Still working to get rid of this fantasy crap about things changing.
AJ
Yes. Seeing her out sucks especially after helping on the car.
I haven't run into that yet. My STBXW does all of her partying in a little town about 30 minutes away so I'm guessing we won't cross paths for a long, long time.
That's good. The life she's chosen though is 180 degrees different than what she told me she wanted in life. But I've read elsewhere that the WAS is closer to the person she is now than the person she was when we got married. That person wasn't real. It was what she was trying to be for me.
Yes. The fantasy of things changing. There are just enough success stories on these boards to keep that 1 percent of hope alive. I've asked others on the boards if that goes away when the D is final --- and they said it still pops into their heads even after.
Yeah, I imagine that fairy tale will come along from time to time.
Interesting to think this is closer to who she really is vs. her trying to be different for me. That would mean she was right: I do deserve better
Which of course I do. I get that even clearer every day. I'm surprised I still get more clarity. I was pretty clear before, but as my self-esteem and confidence reach newer heights, I realize I am really better off without her. Still, I do miss her sometimes and I really hate it for the kids. But I cannot deny that I am better off without her. Or maybe it's just that I'm better off without the new her. Cause the new her is really a lying, scheming, POS kind of person that I would never want to be around. I also wonder sometimes if she knows that and acts like that to repel me. Hmm.. It worked.
It still sucks to have to put up with her though. I'd like for her to just be gone and let me live my life. Instead of the controlling and weird crap. She made my daughter call me to let me know my daughter was coming by. Said she needed to. I know that's because she thinks I have somebody over, but I would never do that to my kids. I told my daughter she doesn't need to call to let me know she is coming home. She laughed cause she already knew that.
Anyway, reading an interesting book by Dr Dobson. Not a bad read and he really goes into the dynamics and ties it in with scripture. That's helpful for me to help me gain perspective.
Had a great today. Did next to nothing and enjoyed that. I could get used to that pace if I'm not careful....
AJ
Journaling:
It occurs to me that she was trying to manipulate me last week; she was being "nice" and communicating to me in a friendly way prior to asking me for help with her car payment and with watching the kids while she is away. I get it.
What that led to was the idea that she is SO selfish still. I feel a great sense of relief this morning as I realize that I won't be tied to her any longer. I really detest people that are that selfish. I normally choose to avoid those kinds of people realizing there is no room for that in my life. It's a bad match.
I feel very much at peace this morning as I reflected back and realized what I had done during this crisis and now the divorce. I am actually looking forward to the divorce and getting this behind me. The only part that hurts is the kids.
AJ
Journaling:
Yep, that was the right instinct. This week we are back to the disrespect. She picked up the kids early yesterday without telling me and then was going to take my son to school without taking into account the arrangements we had made.
Ok. She can continue to act that way. I refuse to sink to that level, but I do notice it. I also notice that I will not react to it until the time is right.
For whatever reason we are still waiting for her lawyer to respond. Go figure. This is a long drawn out event and not a fast, hit and run party. I have always known that.
I spoke to the pastor yesterday about the stuff going on. The other night my daughter was in a fit. She was trying to pick a fight with me. Hard to see if it was normal 15yr old girl stuff or something else, but my instinct told me something else. We went through it and in the end she spent 20 minutes sobbing in my arms about the situation. I cried as well. For me it was the pain of seeing her in pain and knowing that she bottled all of it up for so long waiting for me to be stable enough and the to prove that I am stable enough to handle her pain. That saddens me but I see it. This is where the therapist pays off because she had given some pointers as to how to handle these moments with my daughter. I have been very worried about her and her emotions. I'm very relieved to see her getting them out but realize we have to work on a different way of getting them out else risk that she'll only learn to relate emotions in this fight-release way. She deserves better and I'll see to it she gets better.
Pastor and I also spoke about the past. I realize I will never know what really happened. Not all of it. But I can see that STBX originally had very low self esteem. Not sure why. Not going to know if that came before the self-centeredness and selfishness or after. That led to the disrespect of me. Which led to the re-remembering the past and likely EA/PA if I had to guess. That would explain the valentine's day card as well. The selfishness and low self-esteem are also tied to the mommy guilt etc. I see it, but I don't get it. I won't be able to. I won't be able to think that way and I know that.
I also expressed that I may not have really wanted her back. I would have accepted her back, but I wonder right now if a part of me really never wanted her back. Or if that's just a new thing as a protection mechanism.
We talked about how it seems crazy to me that stbx blamed me for everything and accused me of being mean and abusive to the kids and then left them with me on mother's day. Hmm... How she accused me of all kinds of things - I now know that was projection. We talked about that as the past. It is the past. What boggles my mind and I realize I won't ever understand as well is why she tries to still reach out and hurt me in any way she can. Or as my father puts it, she won't "win" until you "lose". Huh? Except he's right I think. Sure it's more than that, but that's one thing that it feels like. Even though she got what she wanted, she is trying to control and inflict pain at me. I can feel it.
Pastor suggested it may be due to the low self-esteem; somebody with that problem will often try to raise their self-esteem by dragging others down. Sick, but true. I've seen that in other situations before.
I see now why the MC said that I'll be long done and then she will make up her mind. I see now why STBX is such an overachiever as well - low self-esteem.
I see much more than previously and it doesn't stop.
It doesn't matter either. I just look back and journal it in hopes it may help somebody else see something or understand or it may bring peace to them.
Not sure why this had to happen in our lives. Really won't ever know. But it is what it is and moving on is the way to go. I am. I realized that the pain will continue for years. That's ok. I think feeling it is better than being numb or looking back and not feeling pain. If I did not feel it, my time would have been wasted. I did love her deeply and will miss that person. I do NOT miss the person she is and will not be treated poorly. A time will come when I can effectively stop that. That won't be until after the legal dust settles down some. That is delayed by her at the moment but if I see the pattern correctly, that won't stay that way for very long. I would guess I'll hear something between now and the early part of next week.
Just a guess but I'm rarely wrong about the patterns.
My goal is to become even more at peace with this situation. I am moving on that goal and progressing. I am rebuilding my self-esteem and getting stronger with every minute that goes by.
Peace to you all.
AJ
It occurs to me that she was trying to manipulate me last week;
What that led to was the idea that she is SO selfish still. I feel a great sense of relief this morning as I realize that I won't be tied to her any longer. I am actually looking forward to the divorce and getting this behind me.
Right there with you, AJ. I want this D to be over so badly. It's amazing when people act nice to your face but really stab you in the back the moment your'e out of eyesight. Even more hurtful when it's something you have been MARRIED to. Ugh. Did you guys file D papers already?
Seeing "them" around town does suck. I see my H frequently and hate it.
Guess we just hae to suck it up and be glad these folks will be out of our lives soon!
Thanks sunshine
Divorce papers have not been filed. In this state, we have to file sep papers first, stay sep for 1 year (living apart physically) before divorce papers can be filed.
It really doesn't suck very much any more. It did for about a few minutes. Then it didn't.
One thing I have learned in this is that I am not a victim per se. I had control the whole time because I could have left. I know that. I am a victim in the sense that I never did anything to deserve the behavior she showed me. She even admitted it once for all the good it does but she did not have to: I know that. The MC said similar when she mentioned that it wasn't anything I did or could change. Her words: "this is 90% her and 10% you". I see what she meant now. She has a long way to go in accepting what has happened and her part in it. I do to some degree as well but for different reasons.
What's odd is that for the longest time I felt bad for her. Well, not odd. Normal I guess because I did love her very much and don't (still) want to see her harmed. It took me a very long time to give myself permission to let go the rest of the way. Now that I have, I feel pretty good that I did what I could.
I know I'm just dealing with the junk left over. I'm working through the pieces that need to be worked through as they arrive.
And for the record - she would stab me while looking me in the eyes if she could. Don't know why. Won't know why. But that is how it is. Adversarial to say the least.
That behavior pattern is something she has shown to her parents as well. I recall seeing that in the past and now. That's a using personality and I know that. She has done the same to her new friends, especially her train wreck friend. It broke my heart to see this. It broke my heart to see how she is using people, including me. That always saddens me to see people do that to other people. I always think, "what is going through their mind? They seem so scared and child like" when they do that.
But I also realize that is not the kind of person I want to be joined to for the rest of my life. I would have to get rid of her later I'm sure if that were what I was faced with. In that sense, it's not such a bad thing for me. For my kids? Let's not go there. For my STBX? I wish her the best, but I can see that is not likely to be the long term case. I hope I'm incorrect in that assumption. That the drinking, friends, etc. are not headed where I see them heading. But I see these folks as more f'd up then she is. Part of why she picks them. She stays with them until they tell her something she doesn't want to hear or deal with and then she drops them. They have all figured it out at some point and have been put on the side of the road to date.
Whatever. As long as my kids are ok, I'm ok. Annoyed at times. Sometimes even angry.
But as I mentioned, my goal is to be at peace with the way things are. In the end, she can't live up to her promises. She is mean and mean spirited. She is spiteful. She has all kinds of irrational fears. She wears guilt like a smelly and heavy coat. I honestly don't find that very appealing and feel lucky to not be around her. After the treatment I received from her, I'm glad I'm not insane.
I still remember the time she tried to get me to hit her. Really? That's so not me. She tried to get me to move out. Nope. Again not me. She wanted it to be my fault and disremembered so much to try and twist history to fit her story.
I haven't forgotten. I don't feel like I need revenge, but I do feel like I want to be left alone and not f'd with any longer. I mean, really? Does it really have to continue for a long time? (I do know the answer to that. This post has been venting).
Be at peace sunshine. I realize sometimes it is not easy. But it can be achieved. It is not really very far away. I'm tired. But I am not worn down. I am...me. And I like me. I will be at peace with this even though it will at some point be painful for a few minutes. I can deal.
AJ
She wanted it to be my fault and disremembered so much to try and twist history to fit her story.
I think the reason fo that is they're trying to reconcile the
sh-tty things they are doing/the messes they are creating and they can't accept any blame for it so they lash out. It's really sad and pitiful.
But alas, you sound SO much better without her, even if it wasn't what you signed up for. That amount of toxicity = no good.
Soleil, you are SOOOOO right. I am better off without her. I never gave myself permission to think so until recently. I never gave myself permission to let go - until recently. I have and as I do I see things so very differently.
I think you are correct as well that they cannot allow themselves to see things as their fault. Eventually they may, but it may be catastrophic when they do. My stbx once told me that she was angry at me for whole time she moved out. I suspect she still is although she tries to say she is no longer angry. She was angry at me because she left? WTF? I get it now. She couldn't be angry at herself. She needed to be angry to keep gone. But she couldn't let go of the other things in her life at the same time. So she just gave up on the marriage and continued down the path she started telling herself all the lies (it'll be for the best. This is what is best for me. You'll be better off. You can do better than me. The kids will be fine. It'll be better for the kids if they see us apart and happy than together and miserable. I never loved you. and so on). Bullshit and lies, but that's part of it I suppose.
She wanted to date other people. That's a deal breaker for me. She just wouldn't leave to do it. But somehow she had to justify to herself her actions and being mean and nasty and blaming me seemed to be the way for her. I get that now. I see the pattern.
That is not the life for me. I see from watching others around me and on this board that it is not likely that if she did try to come back that things would work. Too much damage and selfishiness. I can't live with that. I can't trust her or the myriad of lies I've heard. At this point, I wouldn't recognize the truth from her if it bit me
I get it. It's been over, but it's also that I had to give myself permission to let it be over for me. Personally. Stop hoping for that fairy tale ending. I don't any longer. I look forward to being on my own with my kids. And she more and more is not spending much time with the kids which means I get what I look forward to more and more. I'm ok with that. I'm working on having peace with the whole thing and not getting angry when I see stbx's number pop up on my phone or her name in my email. Angry isn't the right word really. Traumatized might be a bit better.
Thanks for talking it out with me. I can answer the question now: I did want her back even though I had some conditions. I don't think they were unreasonable conditions either. She chose otherwise and that's how it is. But I deserve better and will get better. It is easy to do when I'm ready.
For now, peace. That's my goal. And I'm getting closer each day. With my own decisions and my own life. I like me. I'm a good person, a good dad, and a good husband. I always have been. I intend to continue that and live my life in a way that I can look back and have no regrets and be at peace with my God and myself. Certainly not perfect, but each step I take is in support of those goals. Always have been. My doubt is washed away. I was tested and I am happy with the results regarding me.
Like I said. I am sure there will be days when I am sad. When I am angry. When I am reminded of the life taken. But that will not define me and really never has. I can see that now as well.
Peace to you and everyone here.
Thought for today: Life - be in it!
Journaling:
Fascinating. I've been reading the unfolding story of a WAW on another forum. I'm struck by the pain and difficulty and how many people can relate. I'm struck by how it doesn't have to be that way. How sharing your feelings can be difficult but that it is a two way street. How until you realize that, you cannot succeed in any relationship. You will continue to bounce around.
My mc remarked once how different STBX and I are in her cases. Very rare she mused. Said things were good for so many years but this can happen. Is it an awakening? Or something else? Nobody can say.
One thing is certain - there are multiple sides. Not all of the players are willing to see the other side which means the relationship is doomed.
<Sigh> I look back and look for reasons. I know why. It is because I do not want to hate her. I do not want to be bitter. I do not want to look back at the various confusing stories I've been handed, and think that I was used because she was scared. I don't want to look back at the childish behavior and get angry. I do not want that burden. I want to forgive.
I realize it takes two. I realize none of us is perfect. I realize that if either wants to leave, that is that person's prerogative. It hurts all involved just the same. Both sides. And I try to make sure I keep that in my mind to understand so that I won't become bitter.
I want to forgive. It comes in fits and starts.
My MC once commented that the issues were mostly hers and therefore you can change, but it won't change the situation. You have things to work on, yes, but most of them are her issues to deal with. You will have to be patient. That likely hurt the most of any of this. To be so without the means to change anything around me. So powerless. So humbled.
I see now that the humility will be helpful to me. All throughout my life, whenever humility comes, it has been helpful. I can look back and see that. I've hated it each time but always has good come from it.
It's hard to see it this time in regards to my family. It's hard to understand how somebody you trusted decides to hurt you then leave. It's hard to understand how somebody you trusted didn't communicate and how you thought they did. It's hard to see how somebody you loved so deeply decided that they were done with little warning. How stresses of life can affect people. How somebody that you loved so deeply could find somebody else. How they can blame you for the problems that caused them to leave and then want to be friends? (that is so one sided that it isn't even funny. That's as selfish as it gets from what I can see.)
Perhaps it is in how one defines "friends" ?
Hard to understand what is real and what is not some days in that past. One thing that is certain - she does not want to be married to me any longer. At some point, I no longer wanted to be married to her either after she emotionally left. To be honest, I really don't want to know the mean and vicious person she has become. The control freak she has always been. I don't want to know somebody who only blames somebody else for whatever problems are in their life.
I don't want to be bitter. I want to forgive. I also do not want to hurt her emotionally. But it is hard to understand how suddenly I became the enemy and my faults were so magnified that I almost hated me
(until I could find reality again).
Those are my thoughts. Other than that, I am doing very well. Had a great evening and a great morning.
I like to get to the root of things. I wanted to know why. What happened. I may never really know and I have to be okay with that or drive myself nuts. It took along time to get to where I am. We aren't friends but we do talk about the kids and things that will effect them.
I never told him that I forgave him but said it to myself like a mantra. I had to set myself free. We still have issues and I do occasionally take a step back but he really isn't my problem anymore. You will get there too. I promise.
kat
I appreciate that Kat. I think part of it is getting to the point of actually letting go. I think what is happening is that it is not all at once but rather in "steps". Letting go of the garbage. Allowing myself to realize I am better off without and not feeling guilty for knowing that. Allowing myself that I will no longer be held back by having to walk on eggshells.
I do talk about things pertaining to the kids. I flat out refuse to let them get caught in the middle of that. At any expense including (realistically) my own.
It gets confusing sometimes. Keeping sanity in my hands. Today has been one of those days. I'm tired. I can no longer hang on to to the memories and dreams. At least not for now. I need rest. I need solace. I. That still seems strange but I do like me and it is not as strange as it once was. Becoming much more familiar.
I like the man I see in the mirror. I like whom I have become. Me only with some adjustments.
Thanks for setting me straight....
Journaling:
Sometimes reading the boards can send me for a loop. I sometimes lose my perspective. I go back time and again and re-read some of the posts. I try to help others as they go through their own journey. I try to ask questions to better see the picture somebody posts. Many people do post their side of the story (naturally, right?) and it can skew what suggestions we might give.
I've been guilty of that. I've seen many that are as well. The boards can help or they can hinder. But either way I am very thankful for the boards. I've learned a great deal. About me, about life, about my family. Things have really come alive for me, where before they were becoming shades of gray (or is that grey?)
I see things very differently this afternoon. I've been soul searching as read the stories of walk away spouses. I'm struck by the common theme: he needs to change. I waited and waited and he never did, so I left. I strongly encourage anyone thinking like that to reconsider who they are and why they expect others to change. Why they expect others to bring them happiness when they cannot be happy themselves. When they do not know how to get the love they want without resorting to leaving or bullying or otherwise using guerilla tactics.
To those that encourage that, please consider the damage you are suggesting; perhaps there is a different way? I don't know the answer to that. I do know that if people cannot live with something, they change. Makes sense. But to inflict that change on another to get what you want? What would you do if you got that change via those tactics? Would it matter to you? Would you trust it? Would you feel in control? Would you like that?
I'm not saying people don't need to change and of course I'm not condoning abusive behavior. But I am questioning those tactics as a way to get what you want.
My STBX tried that with me. I see that. She later came back and has apologized and has done a myriad of other things to spread the confusion that rages in her. I almost believed some of it. It hurt. I do see the power struggle though.
I know that I cannot live as a controlled human being. Never could. I've seen her even recently try to control me like a teen would control their parents. A spoiled teen that is. That's not for me and I am glad to not be part of that. Sick. Sad.
I get it now. One more piece of the puzzle: she will continue to try and control me as a way to try and get what she wants. That will eventually die down, but it will be a while.
One more brick in the wall. I'll go back for more.
See, I realize that when she said she couldn't figure it out because she was angry about how I was with the kids (later went back and told me 'we're just different') I see that as controlling. Attempting to. I bristle at that from anyone. It's who I am.
Don't get me wrong, I see the MLC. I see that she was looking for a reason to leave me and the kids. I am proud that I stuck with it and tried very hard to reconnect her with the kids. I will never be sorry about that. I feel proud I tried to make the marriage work. Heck, I'm glad I cried and suffered like I did. It reminds me that it was all worth it and that I did not waste my time for the last 20 years in a hateful relationship. I get that.
I also understand more now about why the MC/IC said it was mostly her issues and not mine. I see the childhood issues. The personality problems. I see the ugly where before it was irrelevant to me (I'm not blind).
I realize that although my initial reaction was placating, any reaction or non-reaction would not have changed things. Perhaps to not almost kill me, but otherwise....
More later. Tired now.
I have a big day tomorrow. And still some root beer floats with the kids.
Journaling:
I spoke to my neighbor last night. One of the things I haven't really done 100% is to let go. To let go the rest of the way. Part of that is guilt for letting go. Silly huh? Only not really. I get that it is somewhat natural to be that way.
What was catching me up was figuring out if this was a temporary thing (insanity?) or if this was going to be permanent. I had to see this through to know. I still can't be sure of her feelings, but I can be sure of mine. I can be sure that it would not work out if she did want to come back. I don't think she will want to, but I can see that our relationship is completely obliterated.
The control thing was one part of it. I cannot be controlled by another. I will not accept that. It's part of what changed in the relationship in the early part - her trying to control me even more than I deem healthy. Then things got wobbly.
I was asking my neighbor how long it was before she gave herself permission to let go the rest of the way. It was helpful to have the discussion.
I see more clearly now: this wasn't just confusion over feelings. This was pure anger and trying to hurt me while trying to control me and getting me to divorce her. Like watching jekyl and hyde much of the time. "Leave me before I hurt you" "shut up and take it!!!!" etc.
The selfishness is not something I can live with. The self-absorbed "look at me, aren't I cool" and low self-esteem person she is, is not something I can live with.
In short, it's an abusive relationship and I refuse to be treated that way.
Still, I was hoping it was a temporary thing and that one day, I would wake up and my fairy tale would come true. It won't.
Although as my MC said, we were a rare couple for her to see, I see now that it is over and just waiting for me to put the final stake in the heart. Funny thing is, I feel some guilt. I also have some resentment that she wants me to be the one to end the marriage and doesn't have the courage to do it officially. I find it cowardly that she wants out and would not execute the divorce proceedings. That she wanted me to be the bad guy in this. That she wanted to be the wounded spouse (see? Look how he treats me. He did x...) Disgusts me. Literally.
So today my focus is to overcome that guilty feeling and let go of the relationship the rest of the way and be at peace with that. Thought I had, but it seems there is more distance to go. I suspect that will be the case for a while though.
One more brick in the wall.
Peace!
AJ, you wrote: One thing is certain - there are multiple sides. Not all of the players are willing to see the other side which means the relationship is doomed.
And I think that's true. When one person isn't willing to be empathetic to the other person's needs/concerns, then where do you go from there. It's like a "boundary resistant" spouse. How can one deal with that?
The guilt & resentment is what a lot of us feel but know that you did not choose to end your M, you were not the one who wanted to date other people. That was her choice.
As you know, I am the one who moved out of my home. You mentioned "change." I was waiting and hoping for H to change. I kept telling him over and over again to go to MC with me and he would not do it, would see me crying and walk right past me, was packing up stuff in boxes a few days before I left, took and hid my wed. rings. I was so lost. Daggers in my heart. So I removed myself from living in an environment that wasn't working for me and I told him, let's work this out. But he said there was no way, that he couldn't see how, how MC would not benefit us. So not all those who leave don't want to try but I DO firmly believe with your statement that if 1 person can't even empathize w/ the other person, refuses to see things from their POV, then that is where things get clouded. From now on I will not seek out any type of R, friendship or acquaintance that is laking in empathy. The cost is too high.
Know that you were willing to work on your M and she was not. You have nothing to feel bad about. You tried.
Thank you Soleil. You are correct that I did try. Looking back, she quit prior to the bomb. I can see it and now I can understand some of the other behaviors in that light. I do not know why and will not likely know. But I do know that I tried. I do know that I did the right thing protecting the kids and helping them to reconnect with her. Helping her through the worst of her depression and to reconnect with her children. I do know I did the right thing and I have no regrets at all.
No, I see that the issue was not as much mine as it was hers as much as I did not want to believe that. My instinct was to try and save the marriage, my family and her and to do that I tried what I knew. I changed what I felt I could about me. I don't have any regrets.
I realize that she came up with reasons as it suited her and finally settled on one that she felt would "stick". It was about the only thing we ever really disagreed about. That's one reason the MC thought we were so unique in her experience. I often joke with friends that if we met on Match or similar we'd hit 19 out of 20 compatability marks. We laugh at the same stuff, have similar political and child-rearing values. We have similar money values. I'm less materialistic but whatever.
Just the same it is over. She treated me with such disrespect that any human should not have to endure for any reason. I had to know if this was the new her or just a temporary blip on the timeline. Did she blow a sprocket or is this the new her?
I can see this is her. That is why she reminds of my somebody I once knew and loved very deeply.
But I can see that I cannot let the monster she has become anywhere near me. I say monster, but many of you might like her if you met her and didn't know anything about her. I can tell you that she is using her new friends in ways that any cruel dictator in history would cringe at. It's ugly. I don't ask or watch, but my kids bring things up that cause me to piece it together. I've gotten to the point I ask them to stop talking about their mom's friends. Politely. After they have said a few things and only if they won't allow me to change the subject. It's her life and her choices.
I'll never know why she walked away from me, from her family, from her God. I'll never know why she blamed me or why she spent so much time and effort looking for a reason to leave. I don't know. I don't know why she stayed angry at me for so long or why it looked like she had to try so hard to do it. It seemed to require so much effort. I'm guessing. I don't know why she blamed me and was angry at me yet wanted to be "friends". Or what the definition of friends even means to her. From what I've seen of how she treats her friends, I don't think I want to be a friend of hers even.
I've gone through the doubts about myself. In my spare time (meaning when I wasn't bailing water out of the sinking boat or ensuring I could breathe) I searched every nook and cranny of my being with the brightest lights I could find. I know I am not the cause of the divorce. I am not the cause of the pain. I know I have paid the price of somebody else's sins. I don't know who those people or person is. That is ok. I didn't get married for just the good times. I volunteered for this ride, knew the risks, and knew I could get off at any time.
What has been the most difficult is knowing if I was getting off too early. Were we just around the corner from turning a corner. I no longer believe she is anything but what she is now. Not that she won't change. But that our marriage is over. That it was destroyed beyond repair long before I acknowledged it. I know that when she said she was confused that I may have acted differently if it were not for the comments about her wanting to date. But I did not do those things anyway. I have my self-esteem intact. I am not helpless and I have not been helpless. I was ruled by my comittments. I take them very seriously and assumed she did. Perhaps she did and that may be why I saw so much guilt. Why she told me that I can do better than her. That she tried to make me jealous.
But really it is more complex than that as well. She isn't right in the head. At least around me she is not. I have no desire to hurt anyone and if my presence is a problem, then we can fix that. We have. I like me. And I'll be happier than I am now. I am happy, but I will be...content once again. Good days keep coming and more will be here. I can see that.
I have no regrets. I do not think I would have done anything differently than I did at any point in time. I cannot go back to a relationship with her. The pain is too deep and the mistrust too strong. Her irrational (to me) fears are too much for me to be around. They are confusing.
Others may have called it a MLC. I think it's more than that.
I wish her the best of luck in her new life. I hope she likes her. I hope she loves herself. I hope she has no regrets. I hope she finds her God again. I hope she repairs the relationship with the kids to their mutual satisfaction. I do.
I will not be bitter. I will do what it takes to not be bitter and to leave this behind where it belongs. That is not yet done. But I see the next part of my journey is to give myself permission to let her go the rest of the way. It has to be. It wasn't what I asked for but it is what needs to happen. Cannot be any other way at this point because I cannot tolerate being treated like that again. Nor can I trust her to so much as talk to me w/out trying to control or "win". It's weird, but I'm now the adversary. For what? I don't know, but if I don't let her go I'll be lost.
Be at peace.
Cannot be any other way at this point because I cannot tolerate being treated like that again. Nor can I trust her to so much as talk to me w/out trying to control or "win".
Whenever there is a "competition" in a relationship dynamic it's very very toxic and bad. The good thing is you have learned what you will NOT put up with in the future and that is a great thing. After all of this madness, you have come out on top learning what is good and what is bad. You can't put a price on that.
Thank you Soleil. You are once again correct. I do realize that these issues are of her making. I recognize the helplessness I felt and the growth I've had. I do always look for the silver lining. There will be one for me.
I know I can fully realize that silver lining when I give myself the final permission to let go. I also know that's when I'll stop looking for a reason and fully accept what I already know.
It would help to accept this if I thought like she did. But that would also be insanity to me. And I would not be willing to live with myself if I did think like her. For that, I pay the price of having to do this the slow hard way. It'll take more time I'm sure. Less than I think, but more than I want I suspect. I can already feel the door closing the rest of the way. I've never been one to regret my decisions. To do that, I have to be sure what I'm doing is something I can live with.
Know what? I can live with my decision to let go. I know in my heart I can do that now. And each day I more fully feel it in the rest of me. I will be free or die. That is who I am.
To do that, I have to feel the remainder of the anger and disgust. And then let it go. I thought it was all gone, but there's more. As I let it go, I feel a great weight lifted. But there is still a sliver of it left. I think that part will take the longest (kind of like the 80/20 concept, right?)
In the end, if she wants out, I cannot stop her. I didn't even try in the beginning to stop her. I'm still not trying to stop her, but I will not be told to divorce her by her. I will not be controlled. I will divorce her, but not because she said to do it. Because it is the right thing for me. I will not talk poorly of her. I will not hate her or be bitter. That would not be freedom to me.
Almost there. One more brick....
Thanks Soleil. I know there are great people out there I have yet to meet. Giving myself permission to do so and to pursue relationships is part of this. Nothing to do with her any longer. Just me. I can live with that.
Peace
Journaling:
The weekend was awesome. Spent it with my church family. Mostly youth. What a blast! Sun. Surf. Great weather. Great people. Very tiring, but very relaxing as well.
I realized a few things while there. It's not mine to hate her. I don't have to hate her. I can continue to love her as I have. I suspect I always will in some ways. But I don't have to accept the behavior either.
I had to go see her on Friday. She is my student dentist. I have braces from her. I was ready to get them off, but need two more appts. Ok. But while there I was not willing to talk to her in anyway other than professionally. I have no desire to be friends. I really don't like her to be honest. Not sure if that's how it should be, but that's how it is. I have no respect for her and no desire to be friends with somebody like her. Even how she treats her other "friends" is appalling to me. But I realize as well that I do love her even if I cannot be around her. I love her despite her flaws. I don't love her like a wife any longer. I don't look for opportunities to be around her. I don't want to be. I wouldn't pick her as a friend if I did not know her. No, it's just that I see her as broken. And I don't hate the sinner - just the sin. I realize that now. I accept that she is what she is and I accept that I had very little to do with her leaving. I can see that now as the pain continues to subside.
I know I'm working on that last bit of letting go. It's not easy as anyone here can attest. I am working on it however. I am enjoying life more often than not. Starting to recognize normalcy and starting to calm down from the rest of the things I was doing to "run away" from the situation. To ease the pain to a more tolerable level.
I find that I really do like me. I really do enjoy not having that nuttiness, guilt, and anger around me. Can't live like that. I have to be free from that. I was willing to live with it. I admit that. I did what I could to save the marriage. What I thought was right. What I could. But I see that it wasn't about me to begin with and that's why my efforts made little difference in the end.
I waited for her to make up her mind. She did. I am now making my decisions based on what I want. I have been for quite a while and I like that. That return to being me.
I wish her the best. I really do. I feel sad about her and the things she has done to the family in her selfishness. But I don't hate her for it. I do get angry at times, but that's normal I think. I think she has done her best and it just wasn't enough. Ok. Can't fault her for that at least.
I'm going to focus even more on me and my kids. They need some help. A lot. My daughter isn't sleeping well. My son has been very withdrawn. And they live like they have no home. It's sad.
But we'll continue to overcome. As we do. And we'll pick up the pieces and build a better life. For me, without her. And that should be easier than the last several years. It is. For the kids it's going to be a little more difficult. But I'll be there to help them. I won't let them get stuck or hurt more than I can help.
Peace.
Journaling:
I received the returned sep agreement today from my lawyer. I was guessing that it would be soon - been more than three weeks and I suspected after our last encounter that she would approve whatever the lawyer said. It's a pattern. Not guessing her thoughts - can't do that and I get that.
I was reading some other posts a little while ago and was reminded of something Top O said to me once. He was the Marine Top at the MEPP station. I didn't sign that day because they were trying to put things in the contract I wouldn't agree to. He kept me in his office a while and then looked at me over his desk and said, "what makes you think the Marine Corps will want you when you're ready?" I didn't miss a beat and told him I would take that chance because it wasn't acceptable to me the way it was structured. We parted friends.
The reminder is this: what makes somebody think they can treat you a certain way or walk away and that you'll be there when they decide to come back? The answer of course is the same: doesn't matter.
And that is my thought for today. It really doesn't matter. What does matter is my self-esteem and confidence and most especially my kids. They are suffering horribly and there is not a damn thing I can do about that.
After reading her response, I was annoyed at first. It barely changed. The AOA is still in there which indicates to me that she is hiding something more. Know what? I may actually follow through on that to recoup some of the damages to the kids and savings. If I did, I would bring it up as publicly as I could. Dr Phil anyone?
Seriously. I don't want to do that. But at the same time I cannot be pushed any further than I have. These were her decisions and choices. She made them, not me. I never had a say in them. That was the other thought today - This all really had very little to do with me. I see that looking back that DB concepts didn't mean much because it wasn't about me. This is something else. What? I haven't a clue.
I am ok with that. I am not ok with being pushed even more. I am not ok with having to look at her and the guilt that she wears. I am not ok with her trying to control me and disrespect me.
She once mentioned we would be friends. I find that it won't be possible because there is no mutual respect. There won't be either since she is still the most selfish person I've ever met. She became that. Wasn't always the case. I remember loving her deeply. To be honest, I still do. Curse my black heart, right?
But that's not the same as wanting a relationship with her. I do not. Neither do I want to see harm come to her. I plain do not want to see her, which surprises me since I still have trouble with the letting go the rest of the way. I accept that I will have trouble with that for a while. I am not a light switch. I am still being persecuted and she is still trying to hurt and control me.
I received an email from her last night. She wanted to let me know that she will be out of town this weekend and that she made arrangments for the kids to be at a friends tomorrow night. Ok. I could have done without the being told she was going to be out of town. Not important really. Really didn't need to know the kids were going to be at somebody else's house on a night they are supposed to be with her. I see the pattern. She wanders away from them as often as she can. They were with me this past weekend because, although it was her weekend she was out of town.
The pattern is that she is barely able to be a mom.
It saddens me to think she is so broken that this once wonderful woman can't even spend the time with her kids that they so desperately are asking for. Begging. I see signs of them giving up. I see the anger and hurt. I see the bottled up feelings they have. The confusion. It saddens me. It angers me as well. For their sake. I can recover from this and am nicely. They deserve better.
I know I know. They will make their own relationship with her. But it's going to be a long road for the kids. I'm not worried about her too much. Truth be told, I see that she is barely able to keep herself on the rails. And has had that problem for a very long time now.
That is the key to me. The key to keeping compassion in all of this. And not hating or becoming bitter. My thought process is this: do I want to be the reason she dies a slow, unhappy death? Even though I know it doesn't have to be that way, I know that she is incapable of doing it any other way at this point. At least in her own mind. I do feel somewhat sorry for her. The guilt. The pain. The confusion. The anger. The hatred. The confusion. (worth mentioning twice). The alienation. The pressure. The realization and subsequent effort to change history must be near unbearable. I know when I came close to doing that (nuttiness is infectious) it was not a pleasant thing to see.
So I am left with few choices. Because being a guy in this state leaves you automatically guilty. That's ok. I am not interested in the assets. Just the kids. The rest can burn down and I'm fine with that. I can rebuild an even better life. Once the arrows stop flying I can do so unfettered. Until then, there will be some hurdles. Some challenges. Ok. I can live with that. I have lived with that.
One choice I have to figure out is how to let the go the rest of the way. By that I mean faithfully. See, I am not one to lightly make a comittment nor to break one. My faith is mixed into this as well, as I made a promise to God. Hard to reconcile letting go with that promise. Any takers for that conversation?
Peace to you and yours. I know I am much closer to peace now. I like that. I like me so much more without her. I never thought I'd say that. That I would have the courage to say that.
You didn't break your promise to anyone let alone God. You did everything that you could so lay that burden down. If she really needed you, would you help? I don't mean a frivolous request but a real need, I would bet you would help.
As you continue to focus on you and your kids, imagine how you want your life to be. Get that picture as detailed as possible and then hop on the path to get you there. You will find that longer you are working on you and your new life the less the past will hurt. You will get to where you can even look at family photos and not lose it. All in good time.
Peace. kat
Thank you Kat. Really. I think it's just time to work on letting it go. I'm asking the questions. I'm working on it and realize I'm not completely free of the love for her. Nor the anger. Heck, just emotions related to her. But I recognize that letting her go emotionally is the key for me. She's nuts (at least around me and selfish as nobody I've ever seen in my lifetime even when I'm not around) and I have to let her go. Not for her or for the kids or anyone other than me.
Your words mean a lot. I appreciate it.
AJ, I'm reading along and realizing that we all struggle with similar issues, depending where on our journey we are at. Letting go emotionally is the hardest....unfortunately we can't just turn a switch. Anger helps at the initial stage, but I'm finding that as the anger subsides, I have to find compassion and forgiveness to truly let go....it's coming along, but still have ways to go.
(((hugs)))
Thanks Mila. It helps to know I'm not the only one.
Warm regards
Journaling: was thrown for a loop today. That's a good thing. I was reading a different thread and was thrown a curve. It made me think. Could it have been me? That lasted for about 30 seconds though. I have already done the work and looked long, hard, and critically at me. I like me. I had a few changes to make and I did. For me. I like them.
But I also had to face up to letting go. When somebody wants out, you do have to let them go. I am. It took a while because she wanted me to be the one to divorce her. For a long time. I won't do that because somebbody asks me to. That's like assisted suicide to me. A boundary.
But I will now. Why? I had to answer that to myself earlier today. Because she crossed a boundary of mine. I've known that but not sure I wanted to enforce it. I have to. I do want to. For me. The boundaries? She treated me like dirt, was angry at me for things I didn't even do(really) and left twice. Those are important to me.
So I am one step closer to letting go the rest of the way.
Bring on the weekend
Journaling: Funny. I was reading a different post and it occurred to me: it takes two. Abuse? Hmm.. I was abused much of my marriage. I am starting to wonder if she hadn't done this, if I would have. Perhaps.
Several people told many stories and had different opinions. Many of them I respect for what they've done and gone through. Their advice is golden.
But I have to admit much of it doesn't apply to me. I don't like that, but it is what it is.
I noticed on one thread a lady who is growing up. Dealing with past issues and examining her entire life and marriage as well. I applaud that, but I realize the pain it causes. I realize that her perspective is valid, but that the other side rarely gets heard.
Interesting.
To take on the challenge from something you hear/learn/read and question yourself, see "you" under yet another different light, gives you the full image. And it is wise.
xxx
I think it's just time to work on letting it go. I'm asking the questions. I'm working on it and realize I'm not completely free of the love for her. Nor the anger. Heck, just emotions related to her. But I recognize that letting her go emotionally is the key for me. I have to let her go. Not for her or for the kids or anyone other than me.
The love is what makes it so hard. It would be so easy if we could just shut off that part of our hearts and move on but unfortunately, it does not work that way.
And I agree 100% -the key is to let go for you, not her.
Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and move forward.
((( AJM )))
Journaling:
I've decided that this board no longer helps me very much. In fact, it ties me back to the past for now. I'll take longer breaks to focus more on me.
The way forward is clear. Julie/a picked a fight with me the other day. During that fight (this was via text; we really don't have a reason to talk) several things occurred to me:
1) When the mc told me it was 90/10 it wasn't about blame. It was about what I was going to do to try and save my marriage. Because it wasn't much about me, I could try my a** off and it wouldn't do anything other than almost kill me and put me dangerously close to being a doormat. It did both, but I realize I had to do it. For me.
2) The story. That one puzzled me for a long time. I couldn't figure out why she was "writing and rewriting" stories for so many attempts. I do now. It occured to me that this is a natural human behavior and need. We need a story, don't we? If I learned one thing from this board it is that exact thing. We need a story to help us cope. I fought that and it caused a lot of pain. But it also allowed me to see me for who I am. Good thing I like me just the way I am
3) Blame. See above, but I realize now that blame really doesn't matter. That moment came to me while she was trying to argue with me. She told me that she lied 19 years ago (our marriage) but that I know the reason she left. The truth is I do not. I only know what she told me and what I've seen. I know what I am responsible for and what I am not.
4) I realize I am not "done" as much as I had hoped I would be. What I am is beyond the point of no return but that I am far from "done" loving her. I suspect that will take much longer than I'd like. I will not be somebody's option nor their second choice. Or fifth or whatever, right? (humor; nothing more than humor there).
5) I am no longer "in love" with her. I do know that as well. I am repulsed when I do have to see her. But even that doesn't have the same visceral feeling it once had for me. I notice her much more as a person on the street.
6) I do still have ocassional thoughts or feelings about her. But they are much more infrequent and I am much more at peace. I truly am much happier without her. I really fought that step and allowing myself to let go. Not yet sure what my fear was. Maybe failure? I do realize I am not a failure. I have no regrets for the way I did things nor do I consider myself a failure.
7) Re-remembering the past and compassion. I won't allow myself to do that. My marriage was a good one. I picked the right person. That person didn't really change. That person is struggling with her decisions. I can still see that in her face and in the way she interacts with me and the kids. I know it is not easy for her and I feel compassion for that. Not much, because I know it is her own growth path. One she chose. One she decided (unilaterally) was best for "us". But I realize that my marriage was like a vacation: I got stuck in the airport and my bags got lost on the way home. But it was still a great vacation
8) Nobody should be treated the way I allowed myself to be treated. But I would do it all again. I would not change anything.
9) I can't say why, but I think some of this is me digging in my heels and not wanting to be told what to do. Control. She wants me to file for the divorce. She wants me to let her go. She wants me to move on. Etc. Part of my refusal is that I don't want to be told what to do when it wasn't my choice. I'm independent like that and I don't think it's right for somebody to tell another person to do that. Just as it is not right for me to tell her to come home, right? It's not. Give it freely or go away, but don't stay in the middle as far as I'm concerned. Now that I realize that more clearly, I can say that I will file for the divorce. Why? Because it really doesn't matter who files. The result is the same when all is said and done. And because I do not need to continue to be married to somebody that acts like that towards me. For all I know she is hte nicest and most giving person to everyone else except me. I choose to believe that is the case, but really don't know. Doesn't matter. What matters is that she is not around me. She is still incredibly angry towards me. No matter what I do or say. I realize, looking back it never was about me. It's anger and selfishness for reasons I'll never know. I am ok with that now.
To those that offered advice - thank you. For those that are still struggling - keep it up. I believe in marriage. I believe I married the right person. I believe the struggle was worth it. I hope that she finds the happiness and peace she seems to be looking for sooner than she expects to find it. I deeply love her still, but not same as it was before. I care, but I don't care to be abused another moment of my life. Not by her. Not by myself.
I let go a few weeks ago, and let it all wash over me.
This is my final time on this board for a very long time. I need that distance from the past for a while.
Good luck to all of you out there. My the future bring you peace and contentment.
Al (AJM)
...and so ended the year of not my problem. A pretty good end really. Not one I imagined or planned, but actually really good.
Sure I get annoyed by the STBX's crappy attitude. But it's just that: annoyance. I got annoyed briefly by the car accident. But only very briefly. Kept in perspective, things like that (plenty more - cause I'm alive
are just events that came and went. But I will say that I am struggling with letting that last little bit go. I expect it will continue to be that way for a little while longer at least. I've been working hard on me and letting the end of it go.
Some friends asked me about what happened. I don't recall all the details anymore. I remember her offering me sex to initiate the divorce and stuff like that over the past few years. The highlights as I think of them. I realized why she moved back in - to saddle me with her debt for school. That was a good reminder of how I have buried my head about her thinking and what she has been doing. But all of that is meaningless - just trivial stuff that occurs that I am aware of so I can not make the mistake of thinking the best in the future and being caught unaware. Even that is not a big deal - I'm fine so the harm was mostly in my head.
I'm posting now to clean that part up. To possibly help others at some point to realize that we hurt ourselves FAR more than others can hurt us. The things that happen are meaningless in the final analysis.
So I leave with this thought:
"Everything happens for me, not to me." I am coming to realize how true that is as I continue to walk in this life. Also this, "Arguing with reality is like trying to teach a cat to bark—hopeless"
Hope it helps somebody if they find this.
Take care and happy new year!!!!
AJM
"But I will say that I am struggling with letting that last little bit go."
I think no one every totally lets go.
No, I think that's wrong. I found myself as recently as last night letting even more go. I let go of the idea of what I thought she was. I allowed myself to see things as they really are and what her and my actions were. Know what? I have no regrets. Know what else? I'm glad I did what I did. And I'm glad she's gone. We had a good marriage, but it's over. We aren't going to be friends etc (that I can see - I've learned I can't see the future but for now my friends don't treat me the way she still tries to treat me). It's that over. That's ok.
As I've learned about the lies and the affair etc, it really is as simple as letting go. I tried in the beginning but got derailed for a while. That doesn't happen any longer. When I let myself see things as they really are, I began to see that I wouldn't want her as even a friend. I really don't. Which surprised me because I thought the same - don't really ever get over.
I disagree now. I don't want her in my life. At all. And the best part? She'll have a higher paying job than I have and will be able to fund the kids college etc. I really don't have to worry about that. I have the relationship I want with the kids. What more is there? Honestly, I'm very happy even though she has and likely will continue to try and hurt me. I've lived through the worst she can do to me and I'm happier for it.
Can I get over her? Yep. Will it hurt for a little while longer? Yes, but not very much. I don't have a guilty conscience and I am very much at ease with what I've done over the course of my marriage and since. I didn't have much to change, so that part wasn't terribly painful or earth shattering. I just had to get past the part where I trusted her to see clearly. That was the first step and the rest have become much easier.
I can and will totally let go. Wasn't what I asked for but it is what I want now. I want her out of my life. Completely. The best I can do is to only have to talk to her where it regards legal or child matters. That can be managed to a minimum and she can talk to my lawyer for the legal aspects.
I will also be the one to initiate the divorce. The day after I can. I realized what she did and why she stayed so long after I said I wouldn't stand in her way. After that realization? I hope she has a nice life and know that she probably will do quite well. Great. Kids need a stable mom if they can get one. But I'll be the one to move forward - for me. It won't help anyone else as far as I can tell. Nor does it matter of course, but I'll move on. I'll totally let go. I'm almost there.....
AJM
Because I know
Huh. I re-read that last bit of my last post. Hmm.. Might have further than I thought, eh?
But I continue to make steps. That's important. I came here today just to vent a little frustration at the legal process. Silly stuff but annoying.
I realized the other day that it's going to be very difficult to be completely done while the legal beagles howl and whine. I suspect I'll continue to be on edge a little while that continues. But good news: the lawyers are a step closer at least. Her lawyer is preparing a counter to the last I sent over. Included in that was a request to refrain from the emails. J showed her some of the emails going back and forth. My thought there is that she got to say that first and also that I have to really watch what I say. Duh right? But not really. Being cautious to that level is new to me in my "relationship" with her. I realize she read the emails and texts and doesn't like the condemnation. But that's no excuse - there is nothing to say really. I offered my support to help her be a parent with the kids. She brought stuff up and I answered, but even that has to stop. I can't let her bait me which is becoming much easier now (to not be baited).
I also realized so much more. The level of selfishness for one. It's surprising but likely only to me. The daddy issues I never saw for another. Can't help but notice these things as I search for a way to forgive while being pummeled in the process.
For all of that that occurs to me, the shock is all that lasts. For a very short duration at that. And I am grateful for that.
What I think I'm after is to understand what I missed because there were some things that I did miss over the years. A better way to put that is that I didn't want to see them because I think a part of me did. It's like detoxing as I see this. Like I had an addiction or affliction or something.
Other than the legal stuff, I'm doing well. Been much much happier and relaxed. My doctor the other day took my blood pressure. Over the years it had been steadily climbing, but this time she had to take it a second time to make sure it really was that low
My kids are adjusting in some ways. My daughter is pushing me away and my son is bringing me closer. My daughter is just plain angry and trying to run away in place. She dreams of going to school overseas and makes herself as busy as she can to avoid family. I don't blame her. She spends time with her mom, which is good. I can totally relate to a child that wants a relationship with her mom. Who wouldn't? So I put my feelings aside about her mom and try to encourage it.
My son is often thinking I'm trying to pick up on people around me. He seems to think that because his mom is dating that I should. That's ok too because the time will come when I have something to give to somebody else. For now it's pretty funny to check out cute girls with my 13 y-old son
Fun fun fun. Glad I had a chance to vent. I've come to the conclusion that I can guess until the cows come home about the reasons, but really will never know the real reason. And that it doesn't matter (meaningless and wouldn't likely understand anyway.)
AJ
Just venting.
Lawyers are soooooo much fun. But almost there. Should talk to my lawyer next week and finalize the agreement. I see her for who she is, even if she thinks she has changed. That helps because I know she still wants to try and hurt me. I know she wants to hurt me with the divorce/legal process and via the kids. I'm grateful she is spending more time with the kids, but I see that the kids are growing tired of it. I try to encourage them to spend time with her, but we'll see how it goes...
Knowing these things helps me to protect the kids and myself. The legal wrangling is almost over and I realize that the kids will continue to make up their own minds. The best I can do for them is to encourage them to have a relationship with their mother.
Otherwise, things are really good. I see so much more than I was willing to before. Very liberating even now.
AJ
Venting again. Seems therapeutic.
Was talking to my grandmother last night. Like I hinted at last post, I see things very differently. One of the things that was very hard for me is to not be believed. Most, if not all people (and rightfully so) that cared to listen, figured the issue were shared and 50/50. The frustrating part is that it wasn't. I can say that with surety. Did I have some things to address? Of course. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the reasons for the split were not because of my action or inaction. That made it hard for a long time to accept. Very powerless in that situation and very lonely because nobody believes which caused me to doubt myself. Weird, but seems like a fairly normal response in my view.
One example was my wife's uncle who probed me trying to believe the lies she spread. He was uncertain and was siding with family (of course, right?) Later, after he met her boyfriend and talked to his niece for a little while, his response changed to "Oh." That was frustrating to me. Maddening.
What was happening simultaneously was that I was doubting myself. Crazy I know, but is what it is. Said I wasn't perfect, didn't I?
I realized a long time, after looking back, that I'll never really know the reason. Too many conflicting reasons given, although I have several theories as if they matter. They don't.
Why write this? In hopes that it may help others should they stumble across this. I don't regret my actions. Not at all. I stood for my values and kept my integrity. I fought for my wife and my family. I still fight for my kids and doubt that will end for a while with regards to her. They will get to a point where they make their own decisions and until then I encourage their relationship with their mother - for all of their sakes. Regardless of her actions and decisions, nobody deserves to be alientated from their children or their mother. I personally have nothing to talk to her about, but I can see my kids want to have a realtionship with her. It used to hurt to see. It hurts a lot less. I would guess it may be hurt a little until the D is final. That's ok. I suspect I'll be annoyed by the silly things she feels entitled to until then as well. That's also ok.
Don't get me wrong, there are things we have to discuss because of the kids. And I'll have to see her because of the kids. It's annoying that she cannot look me in the eye, but no more so than anyone else that doesn't look me in the eye. Email and text messages and lawyers are all conduits that can be used to communicate the required information - I'm not worried about that.
I'm sure I'll never understand why. I've stopped trying to be honest. It really and honestly makes no difference any longer. It used to, and I haven't forgotten that it used to. It wouldn't even be nice to know any longer nor would I trust her if she tried to tell me. I know that.
Does it still hurt? A little. It was 20 years ya know
Anyhow, just posting to vent and perhaps leave something for somebody else at a later date should they need it.
Take care,
AJ
very helpful ajm.
i stopped talking about my sitch simply because my family says no one would believe me. and yes, the things that have occurred in my marriage were unbelieveable.
a husband who orders a burger with no ketchup .. oops, the burger has ketchup in it. "wife, can you go exchange this for a burger without ketchup?" .. "h, why can't you do it? it's your burger." .. "i don't want them to think i'm high maintenance like a woman .. i'm a man, y'know."
or .. "w, you owe me the interest charge on my credit card bill because you forgot to remind me to pay on time."
you're right. nobody wants to believe me. cuz the more issues that come out of my mouth, the more "is he insane?!" i get asked. it's like fiction.
so i hear ya, ajm. i hear ya.
Like fiction. Yep, very surreal and yet, as I meet more people I find not nearly as uncommon as I'd like to think. Shame too.
I've been rethinking things lately. Not because I need to change anything but because we're getting to the end of the agreement negotiations. I meet with the lawyer on thursday to finalize. Know what? I really am the lucky one. Not financially, but that's inconsequential. But because I stuck to my morals, ethics, and integrity throughout. I loved and likely still do love her deeply. Yet differently. I'm ok with that.
Many people laugh at me when I say I don't want to talk to her. Or they look knowingly at me like, "he'll learn". What I've come to find out is that I don't want to talk to her, not because I hate her. I don't. I don't want to talk to her because I'm not a masochist. Most conversations revolve around what she wants from me. As I look back I realize there were years of the relationship slowly becoming more and more one-way. Of her sabotaging my relationships with the kids, but mostly with my son. I realize that whatever issues she has, she projected them onto me. I suspect a lot of it is with her dad, but that's just supposition and that line of thinking provides no value. It's just that I'm still struggling with the sanity of it all. Only to realize that there isn't any
That's ok. I wish her well and hope she does well. I'm sure she will do well actually. And I'm very grateful she is at least spending more quality time with the kids regardless of why.
I posted to vent. Because the legal aspects do carry some stress since I have to be in protective mode and have to think about the situation more than I'd like. Venting like this helps.
I realize I'm not over her. I also realize there is no going back (that I can see). That's ok. I'm happy and fully expect to be happier as time goes on. I also fully expect to have these various emotions as we near the divorce time. Once the sep agreement is in place, I don't have to see her or talk to her until son's confirmation. I'm happy about that as well. There will be a little bit of back and forth email for daughter's birthday and mother's day, but otherwise no comm. I like that. I've been quite peaceful and happy without comm.
Sometimes I've been introspective and wondered why I didn't see some of this as clearly as I do now. I know why, but I rethink it just because that's how I am.
Anyway, things are going well. My daughter is rapidly changing and becoming a young lady. Was teaching her to drive a stick shift the other day. I feel like a milkshake but she's doing it well. My son and I are planning something for my 40th birthday. We'll have to drag my daughter along though - she's 15 almost 16 and doesn't always want to say she wants to do things even if she does.
Later,
AJ
Just more venting....
My daughter last night wanted me to talk to her mother. The issue is that both of us has promised she will have a car to drive when ready. I have one for her - it's the one I previously wrecked and am repairing. I tried to tell her I was not going to talk to her mother about it, but that if her mom wanted to say something about she could. I explained that her mom doesn't want to talk to me and I really don't want to talk to her either, but that I would if needed. At this point I don't see the need. I hate being in that position though. It grates on my nerves.
I realize I'm raw and I realize why - I have to talk to the lawyer again today to see just how we'll finalize the sep agreement. It's almost done.
What grates on me is that the ex has, from my perspective, destroyed my family, acted like a monster, and blamed me and yet, it's still not over. More to go. My guess is that there will always be "something" that comes up, and that I'll be a little raw until the divorce is final. Hence the venting.
Been frustrating to go through this. I know there wasn't anything I did to deserve this. That's taken a while to get to while searching for my part in this. I know that she sabotaged my relationships with the kids during the last years together and so it's better that she's gone. I just didn't see that at the time in those terms. I knew something wasn't right, but didn't see what it was until much later. Don't get me wrong, I'm not perfect and I'm not trying to blame her. I'm trying to be realistic. I think I am. I don't hate her. I'm annoyed by her and deeply distrust her. I have lots of reasons to distrust her and it's much healthier for me to do that until proven otherwise. If proven otherwise. I am not a masochist
I received an email from her mom last night. Her mom needs serious help. I've been told that many times, but it is becoming more apparent. I'm concerned she may have some early alzheimer's symtpoms. Not that she is terribly forgetful, but...odd. I know she is a control freak and not terribly happy wiht her daughter's choices, but some of the emails are just odd. Starting to wonder....and I hope I'm wrong and just taking something out against her in that regard.
Enough venting. Time to get back to work. I'll talk to the lawyer later today and hopefully finalize the offer/agreement etc and can move on in peace.
Life is good. Don't get me wrong. Just annoyed at the battle raging even after all this time. Her rage (yes, it was absolute rage - aimed at me in many ways) still seems to continue in subtle and hidden ways. I don't understand it and realize I never will. Knowing that brings peace and sometimes helps with compassion - I'd hate to have to carry that even compared to what I am still trying to not carry. I still have anger but mostly due to hurt. Most of the time I don't even think about it, but I think while we get to the end of the agreement phase, I'm having to see it in my face and possibly revisiting some of it due to that. That's ok too in my opinion. I want it all gone. Even though I can see it will be a while longer....
Peace
hang in there, dude. vent all you want.
Venting again. Thanks DMIL.
Funny, I'm venting but I really feel very little passion about the venting. Just annoyance. I get why. It passes quickly on most days.
My two struggles:
Forgiveness and forgiveness. Why twice? Glad you asked
Forgiving her for what she has done is important to me. I know she lied (to herself as much as anyone) and I know she manipulated. I know I allowed that to happen to me (for me really - that's a different conversation though). I still find it hard to completely forgive this. Why? Because the divorce is not yet final I suspect. It keeps things at the forefront. The second reason is because I feel like she is trying to prove that the kids are ok (the picture of them at Christmas) and that she is a good mother (more on that in a minute.) It's like the closer we get to the divorce, the more she tries to prove she isn't the one. As I write this, it becomes more clear why that is. This has had some benefit then....at least in terms of perspective.
She tries over and over to antogonize me with weird little things. I've asked that she not talk to me. I'm sure one day I won't be bothered if she wants to talk or not. But for 20+ years I trusted and loved her deeply - on both counts. For the past few I have not been able to trust her. I don't turn and run and I don't turn quickly. That's just me. I do still love her - I know. But not in a way that I want to be around her. More in a way that I hope she is ok. More in a way that I don't try to hurt her and sometimes I go out of my way to be sure I don't hurt her. I have no desire to see her hurt or do poorly. I have in the past, but that's my anger. I know. But even then I knew that I wouldn't be happy to see her do poorly.
The second forgiveness is there because she still does "weird" stuff. Christmas was a good example when she tried to make her poor planning my problem. It's very unlike the old her to plan so poorly and I can't see how she didn't plan better this time. I feel like it wasn't poor planning but something else. Stop for a second and realize I do understand I don't know how she thinks and really don't know this person she is or what she is going through. I really don't. But it was odd. The other day was the same thing. I got home and found a bill on the counter for my son's dental visit. She is his provider, and when she took him to the clinic a while back she tried to get me to pay for it. I told her I can't (I really cannot) and to take him somewhere the benefits would pay for it. She replied back (this was all via text) to never mind, she would handle it. So I was surprised to see a bill. I asked her about it(again via text - I have no desire to talk to her - I'm not a masochist
and she told me she wanted me to be aware of it. I asked why and if she had filed the paperwork to the insurance. She suggested I could send her the documents. Silly I know, she has the same insurance card still. I told her she could download them and I would return the paper and reminded her of the previous conversation that she was going to take care of it since she did not take him to the insurance approved providers. She wanted to remind me that she is his provider and saw no reason to take him elsewhere.
I walked away from that wondering why the heck she felt it necessary to tell me that. That whole conversation didn't need to happen and I can't for the life of me figure out why it occurred. To me, that's very strange to say the least.
Why is that important? Because it makes it hard to finish the forgiveness. It brings up the crazy crap that has been going on for years now. It reminds of how she poisoned the relationships I have with the kids (sabotaged is a better word). I'm at a loss for all of that as to why. I know my reaction to it wasn't great - I'm not perfect, but I am a working to forgive that in her. I've forgiven myself for my reactions. That happened long ago when I realized the dynamic. But I am sooooooooo tired of revisiting this junk. I have very little energy and negative enthusiasm for it.
I did talk to the lawyer the other day. Nice to know just how screwed I'll be monetarily. That's ok though. My sanity is worth more than that money and in the final analysis, it's worth it. But getting there is sooooooooo tiring when it keeps coming up.
I'm sure I don't want to be her. I feel some compassion for her. I did and do love her and don't want bad things to happen to her. But I do want her to leave me alone. I don't want to be friends with somebody who treats me like she does. I'm not her daddy and I'm not her whipping post. I'm not the reason she left and I'm not to blame for her decisions. I don't like being treated like I am and since I can't do anything to change her mind or her behavior, I would really like to be left alone. I'm not interested in hearing how she is doing - I trust she'll be fine at some point. Instead I put my energy into those things that are important to me - myself and my kids.
Anyway, it helps to keep perspective by venting here.
Peace,
AJ
ajm .. nobody says forgiveness has to happen now or next week or even next year.
it happens when you are ready for it. oh yeah .. forgiveness isn't mandatory. it's an option. nobody even says you HAVE to forgive her. it's a choice you make. and it's up to you when you do so.
don't put a timeline on something like that. that's like added pressure, y'know?
I did talk to the lawyer the other day. Nice to know just how screwed I'll be monetarily. That's ok though. My sanity is worth more than that money and in the final analysis, it's worth it. But getting there is sooooooooo tiring when it keeps coming up.
i know what you mean. my stbxh is trying to screw me monetarily as well. it's not always the man who gets shafted. and trust me, the woman doesn't have all the power. we get called so many names just for asking for a "fair" deal. man just has to win. what kind of man screws a woman over when he's the one who wants out?
it [censored] when it keeps coming up. i wish it was over.
what are you doing for yourself and what are your kids doing these days?
Forgiveness is for you, not the other person. At the end of the day, the only person all that pent up frustration hurts is you. I started out acting "as if" I forgave him. When I saw him instead of totally ignoring him, for the kids sake, I treated him like the postman.
Sounds as if your soon to be ex wants you to take care of everything and doesn't get by walking away you don't get that anymore. I am sorry for all of that you are going through.
hang in there, kat
Kat and DMIL, I appreciate that. My take is that the only person I'm hurting by not forgiving is me. I also see that she won't be happy until she feels like she has hurt and "won" for whatever that really means. I know.
I also realize that it's not just the man that's gets screwed over, nor is it "fair". The person that leaves just wants to leave that destruction I guess. Not even going to guess why any longer. That is meaningless. I see that.
Acting like you're talking to the postman? That's a good idea - thanks.
I do know that acting as if for now is the way to go. That's been very helpful for me for a long time now. It leads to the forgiveness. Wanting to forgive the first step, and I know that too. I'm impatient at this point, so venting helps me to keep perspective and get some of that out.
Kat, I don't know what my STBX really wants. I just know the actions I see. And thankfully that's not very much, but what I do see is poor behavior. In that context, my only recourse to protect me and look out for me is to keep contact to a minimum. I suspect that will last for a few years before she can treat me with some sort of respect and not just demand things. Either that or she will just stop contacting. Either will have to do because I refuse to be treated poorly. At any cost (except the kids - I won't let them get caught in the mess as much as I can control.) It's not lost on me that she will still have things to deal with in her own emotional cess pool. I have noticed the friendship circle has changed yet again, which really is only important to me so far as she is nowhere near done with this ride and I want to stay as clear as I can. I was told once that I would be done and then she'll figure out what she wants. That makes me nervous in that I really don't want to so much as talk to her right now. I'm not a masochist and she is very abusive and demanding when she tries to talk to me.
What am I doing for me? All kinds of things. I am very much happy except for this junk and annoyance. I've been training up for some racing this coming spring and summer. My 40th birthday is coming up and I'm looking at how I want to spend that. Working around the house getting it ready for spring. Hanging out with friends and generally just relaxing when I can. The kids and I are spending as much time as we can together. They have their lives as well, and I try to remember that. My daughter especially. My son is trying hard to spend more time with me while my daughter is trying to be a teenager. I'm rolling with it either way
More involved in my church and working with the youth there. I really enjoy that part. And then there's work. Work has been very busy lately. And family things to deal with with my family in California.
All in all, life is really good.
As I wrote this, it occurs to me that my only real issue is with me. The forgiveness is chewing at me. I do know that it is in my best interest. I want that. I want to let this all go and just be done. I'm still very defensive and feel I have to be because I cannot trust her until she is in a place that she cannot hurt me any longer. I can see her trying. I can see her trying to get worked up and in a rage towards me. I can see she doesn't like that I am not willing to talk to her nor that what is asked for by her can also be asked for by me. She wants it to be a one-way street - still. I can't fathom it, but I see it. And it makes it harder to forgive even though I should be able to with or without her cooperation. I agree it is not on a timetable, but I do want it as soon as possible. <sigh> Oh well. Just keep working towards that forgiveness and eventually I'll get there.
Thanks guys.
AJ
Somewhere the forgiveness is pointed towards yourself too. You did all that you could. You can't control someone else's choices. So forgive yourself that you didn't pull off saving the marriage. You saved yourself and that is a good thing in the end.
kat
Remember anger is guilt turned outward. Sometimes when they're angry they're also really feeling guilty.
Thank you all. Sometimes it is helpful to talk with people that have been through this. It helps me keep perspective when I really just don't want to keep perspective.
Kat, I think you really do get what I'm saying and have been there. I think you all do, but those words articulate what I couldn't. Thank you for that.
Nothing more to report today. Just another busy day. I'll pick up my kids this evening and get to spend some time with them - I'm looking forward to that. The next time I see them it's to drop them off at camp. I miss them. I miss having them home with me. I have to be careful to not pull them unfairly just because I miss them. Balance. I'm getting better at it.
Thanks guys!
AJ
Hey no one can really hope to get through this stuff overnight. It takes a lot of work and looking into the dark recesses of yourself. Maybe it helps that I was a psych major, I don't know.
I think the important thing to remember is that you will get there when you do. No deadline set in stone. Even then you will catch yourself thinking what if or what a waste that this happened. It is normal.
I'm hanging around if you need to chat.
kat
Yep, I totally agree Kat. Thanks for that. (again
)
I caught myself being angry again. Frustrated. I'm sure I will again, but when I catch myself now, I started back to asking a lot of questions about why. I think I revisit from time to time. I'm sure I do, and yet it is nothing I can do anything about. So revisiting is for some other reason - not one that is provides any evident value however.
So I'm learning to ask the questions. To give it away. It's not mine to own and I'm hurting only me.
Interesting journey
Peace,
AJ
Talking with a friend the other night. It occurs to me that I may have some other things to deal with about me. Go figure. After talking to him I suspect I know where some of that anger comes from - I was cheated out of the second half of my children's childhood. What I mean by that is that "we" didn't get to finish raising them together. I don't think I took that into account, but when I was talking to my buddy I was trying to figure out if I was done with kids. I had to ask myself that question. The estranged wife brought that conversation up years ago during her accusations of me and her rages. I have to face it now, due to the ladies I meet that are at different stages of their lives - some are quite a bit younger while others are about to be grandparents. Age is not the important factor there, but rather the stage they are in compared to where I am. I think I have to figure out if I want more kids or not or if it's just that I see it as a way to build a new family and complete what I started with the estranged spouse. Didn't really consider that before but it seems to make sense to me to face that.
I'm still learning to give it away. I can give it away easily but find it hard to not go back and pick it up from time to time. I must be human after all
Cheers,
AJ
Yep, anger is still a struggle. I don't think I should expect otherwise, but it is what it is. I expect the anger to come and go while the divorce and sep agreement are still not final. Makes sense academically.
I was talking to some friends last night and realized I am SOOO sick and tired of the conversation. Yuck. I want different. I want something else.
I get concerned that because of the kids, I will have to see her again. My concern is that while I need to forgive her, I still have that anger at what she did and don't want to talk to her. Right now, I doubt I could say as much as hello without feeling anger.. Silly I know, but again, it is what it is. Don't get me wrong. I know I need to stay away from her and I have no desire to be anywhere else but away from her. But she seems to want to talk on the phone. I feel like she is putting me in a position where if I don't, I'm the bad guy. That's not silly - she has been very manipulative throughout. I realize she was sabotaging my relationships with the kids as much as she could even before the revelation. I get that now and I have some resentment about it. The only saving part is that I don't think she did it consciously. Even that I wonder but only becuase of my deep distrust of her.
Done venting
Ya know? I read the drivel I talk about and wonder who I am some days...
I am a child of God. I am commanded to both let her go and to forgive her as well as to love her. It's confusing. But I think it's not as confusing as my pea brain has started telling me. My anger has clouded much of it. My pain and my anger really.
Forgive? Yep, working on that.
Love? Yep, I do. Just not like before. Different.
Let her go. Yep, did that long ago.
So why the rehash? I've spent some time to see what that is about. I still don't really know, but I suspect it is more related to the current legal aspects. I have to keep being reminded of this and keep dealing with it. Been that way more since Christmas than in a long time before that. I've seen a pattern if you will. The more I have to deal with it in my face, the more I find myself thinking about it. I really do not want to. But my growth needs to happen and I do have to deal with it.
So hopefully not much longer. Waiting on the reply still.
AJ
Still waiting on the real reply. So far her laywer indicated she wanted more money. At first I was a bit ticked, but I look at it differently now. I remember two things:
1) just because she asked or wants, doesn't really mean much other than longer delays at a time when I want this done and over with. Just drags it on longer is all. Somebody once told me that marriage is about love and divorce is about money. Seems that's true.
What she is asserting (her or her lawyer or both?) is that there is more equity in the house than my offer reflects. Really? Hmm... Nope. Checked with the real estate agent and had her re-run the numbers. Have you read the papers lately? Lived under a rock? The market is pretty bad these days. Sent back a reply to my own lawyer with the way I see the figures. If I'm right about the numbers, she walks away with about 3.5K if the house sells at appraisal value. Not likely, but what the heck right? More likely is that she pays money and I just end up out of my home. Weird, but then again not....
2) I was getting angry and I remembered back when she was struggling with all this. Don't get me wrong, I was too, but that's not her doing per se. I remember seeing her not sleeping, getting skin ailments, being depressed, and generally having a difficult time. She once told me she almost pulled over to the side of the road to throw up and didn't because she was worried she would never stop. She was a mess.
I know now that it was nothing to do with me. Her issues are hers and are self-inflicted. But it gives an idea of the mess she was (is?) I can't have anything but pity at this point for that. Even if she is evil incarnate towards me and selfish beyond belief, (evil incarnate is just a joke - gallows humor to some degree - I don't really feel like that - just annoyed at the junk that comes with this - kind of a drama queen about it right?
I can't honestly say I loved her and want that for her. I mean really. Could anyone want that for somebody else?
I remember it was part of my decision to let go. To no longer stand in her way of filing for divorce (as if I could, right?).
Anyway, just venting. And waiting. I don't want to wait any longer. I want to move forward. I want to stop being in what feels like limbo while I wait for this junk. I am waiting because I can't see what is going to happen with my home. cie la vie I guess.
Good news elsewhere though. Work, which has been good to me and almost fired me at the same time (for other reasons) during all of this, is looking to promote me to a new position. That's good news in many respects. I've been struggling to get my son's medication shipped. When all of this was going on, I missed the part in the new benefits that indicated a 10K cap every year. His medication is 5K per month (he is growth hormone deficient). With a lot of hard work, I've got that worked around, but a new job (it's technically with a new company) would be really good. With one less person in the household, I need that because I wouldn't qualify for the workaround next year. It's been five years without a raise/review etc. The new job is very different but a good thing. More of a management track and includes an international component - travel. I'm excited to see if I can land it and take on new challenges. It isn't official yet - still has to go through the process. We'll see.
Take care,
AJ
Good luck on the job - I like the international travel part!
Pretty ridiculous that a catastrophic medicine like growth hormone would be limited. How about instead we limit the hypertension and cholesterol meds that many people could largely change their lifestyles and not need to take all the time?
As for the house equity question - I found out to my dismay that apparently, in most situations, the costs of selling the house are not taken into consideration when figuring your buyout of the other spouse. I think that's absurd. If the house would sell for 100k and you owe 95k on it, there IS no 5k equity to be split, because if you DID sell the house, it would cost more than 5k to fix it up for sale and pay your share of closing costs etc. And that's assuming, of course, that it sells for that price. Stick to your guns, show them the comps and factor in those closing costs.
Oh yes that certainly is/was the case in the UK at the time of my divorce. Of course you have to take off the costs of sale.
I so know what you mean about being in limbo. Divorce is a horrible time but it will get easier it really will.
You write so clearly about your feelings. I know what you mean about not wanting to be friends with your ex. For a while I tried really hard to be friends with me ex. But it became very apparent that it would never work. So I gave up trying. Life got better from that point onwards.
I'm pleased that you were able to sort the medication out for your son - such a worry.
Good luck.
Thank you both. It is a relief to have the medication figured out. Still a pain sometimes to be the responsible adult here, but I also see it as a badge of honor.
Friday was fun. Got a text from the ex. She was in an absolute rage. The issue was our daughter getting in trouble for being late. Naturally that must be my fault. Some of it has been - I've gotten her late to school a few times. But the rest of the story.... well nobody asked before the rage began. Interesting. I just let it go. There was nothing to say, but it's a pain to be villainized that way and for really what amounts to something the ex caused. In other words, if she hadn't made the choices she did, this wouldn't be an issue that had to be face. And if she was more of a parent and got the child to go to sleep at a reasonable time (fairness: she is a teenager - they are funny about sleep
) .... the list goes on. Being threatened by legal action.. that let me know that this was nothing to argue about. Just rage. Pure rage.
My guess is that we won't be able to so much as say hello for years without there being something else behind it. Ok. Can't change that. Sadly, it will only hurt the kids - there is no more to hurt me with and I knew that was possible when I shut that door. What gets me is that I can see where I can manipulate that situation to my and the kids advantage. The issue is one of morals; that's not the right thing to do. She would do it to me in a heartbeat - I know that - but it doesn't make it right. Not even for my kids in many cases. Where it does and I can see that clearly, I have no hesitation in doing it. But otherwise, I leave it alone.
She has some need to be angry at me. I have no need from her. Seems logical and morally correct to let it drop even though it does annoy me (can you tell?) Seems like this might be somewhat normal too, when it comes to divorce. From what I've heard anyway. First time I've done it
Just venting again. Catch you later,
AJ
Let's face it, I just won't understand the rage. It's bothered me a bit. Not sure why, but I think it has something to do with having to see her again in a few months. Hard to get that out of my mind. I struggle with showing grace and mercy (I am a Christian after all and she is one of God's critters (I think :))
I struggle with it just the same.
What I want to do is to call her a monster and have her never speak to me again except about business related issues. Everything else is text or email and that's fine with me.
What I feel my faith calls me to do is to be graceful and polite should I be faced with that.
What I realize is that I'm dying the coward's death - a thousand times. I just need to face it. What I also realize is that she is not anyone I know. She is, at least towards me, a raging lunatic. She wasn't always that way. Really. We had a good marriage for a lot of years. But now... she is a raging lunatic at least towards and around me. It's weird. I can find no reason that I know of (I'm being totally honest and believe me, I've looked at everything I know to look at) to explain that rage. Other than she chose to. Simple as that.
I'm saddened by that at some times, but not really any longer. I honestly am glad to be away from her at this point. I hate what it has done to my family but I don't regret what I've done and I don't want her back in my life. Not for a lot of years. Nobody deserves to be treated like that. Nobody.
I saw her the other day at a race we were both in. I can't even find her attractive. That's a good thing I suspect.
But I keep coming back to the rage. Hence the reason I'm posting - to get it out of my system. I didn't respond to it. She later texted me about some other question related to our son and so I answered that one. But the rage is a reminder to me of what she is and part of the reason I chose to not fight her about getting a divorce. As if it was my choice, but still...
Anyway, enough of that. I did get the medication today (yay!) and daughter's contact lenses. Good day in that regard. Work informed I'll be getting a bonus for some past work I did. That's always nice. The weekend was tons of fun with an 8k race and lots of friends. All in all, life is good and looking better and better. I just need the lawyer to help me finalize the sep agreement and move on from there. I can feel that pressure, but it's tolerable.
Later gator,
AJ
I can find no reason that I know of (I'm being totally honest and believe me, I've looked at everything I know to look at) to explain that rage
Anger is guilt turned outward.
I agree with kml. The relationship didn't work out so of course there is a lot of thinking about what ifs, I should have, I could have, If only's out there. The thing that bothers me the most of late is how I stayed, did the right thing in raising my kids and yet at the moment I don't have a partner. Ex is married to his affair partner after living with her for a year. I think in their own crazy world, they were trying to make the relationship look honest and clean. You know as if 2 marriages /families didn't get broken because of their choices.
I don't dwell on it but it kind of hits me now and then. I am better off as you will be too. You deserve someone who wants to be with you, right? You did what you could. Now get some really good glue, I hear Gorilla Glue is strong stuff, pick up your pieces, rearrange accordingly and glue like a madman. Just don't move too quick, you have to give yourself and the glue time to cure.
kat
Gorilla Glue? LOL. That's good stuff though.
I agree kml. I see and have seen a lot of guilt. But I think she has made her peace with that. Who knows, but I suspect so. She blamed me for her leaving (flimsy, but seemed to work for her) for reasons I may never understand; I've stopped trying to understand and just rely on the facts of what I've seen and experienced. I remember during all of this going on I actually thought about just agreeing with her so she wouldn't suffer so much and so visibly. That thinking influenced my decisions and I came dangerously close to completely losing myself. My father pointed that out to me at one point. It was his concern that I would get really messed up in the head. I can see where his concerns were valid.
Kat, you are absolutely correct. I did what I could. I can see, based on some other interactions with her mother, that I can honestly feel sorry for my stbx. Yikes. But not my place to fix her. Really, I have let that go. I get wound up about a few things, but it passes and it is situational now - has been for a long time.
I did get a complaint letter from her lawyer yesterday. Funny. She couldn't complain about what she was in a rage about on Friday, so she lashed out however she could from what I can see. Ok. It's going to get ugly I'm sure. And only over about 3K worth of money from what I can see. I may have to surprise her and agree to that just to end it. I'll play that by ear....
I spoke to her last night. That was weird. She was actually polite although visibly shaking and had very watery eyes. I had no emotion about it. Surprised me and then again, it didn't. Just discussing some emails she thought she sent, it ocurred to me she was angrier at her (perceived) no response. That strikes me as odd as well, but I suspect I just don't know what normal is yet.
I started to feel sorry for her before. I realize that isn't right. She made her choices and she will have to live with them. I made my choices and I have to live with mine. I make mine every day and live with them. But it did strike me as odd that she seemed to want to talk more than just to pass on the information about the kids. She seemed disappointed that I didn't have anything else to say. I'm not. I don't want to talk to her in the first place. Every time I do, I get slapped up side the head not long afterwards almost like it is some sort of game and I'm the whipping post in it. No thanks.
I had to remind myself that this is the same woman that offered me sex if I would initiate the divorce. That Moved out on Mother's day the first time. That couldn't spend time with the kids unless her new friends were around. I remember thinking she shattered into a thousand pieces. I watched this trainwreck for a long time and I know that she did this. Wasn't what I wanted. Still isn't if the truth be known, but I have accepted it and I am moving on as much as I can while still in this legal limbo.
I've told myself I may talk to her again at some point. But conversation is not something I want from her in her current mind. If she ever becomes a reasonable human being again, I'll talk to her. One that doesn't fly into a rage if things aren't as she wants them. One that doesn't try to hurt me at every opportunity she gets. If that happens, I might be willing to talk. Then again, I may not make the time beyond hello. I really couldn't say. It's not that I don't love her. I do. I hope and pray for the best for her (several times a day), but I in no way intend to be abused like that ever again. By anybody. I'll do whatever it takes to not. To that end, when she is polite, I respond. When she is in a rage and mean, I do not. Simple as that.
Don't get me wrong. It still hurts. It pains me to no end to see my kids in this situation. Especially my daughter. I see her idolizing her mother and trying to have a relationship with her and not getting what she is after. I can only guide and help, but not much more. I have offered to help my stbx in her endeavor to be a better parent. Not in those words, but the meaning was there. I support that. It is after all, in the best interest of my kids and myself. My stbx benefits as well, but that's not the deciding factor although I'm not against it. It just is. Surprisingly sometimes, I harbor no ill will towards her. I wouldn't be happy if she got hurt, or was destitute (that won't likely happen) or any harm came to her. I really wouldn't.
The legal stuff? It's a pain in the neck. It really is. But it'll pass. And it could be worse. Several co-workers were at a funeral today for a 14 yr old that died suddenly after flu-like symptoms. Matter of days. My problems are really insignificant if you put it in perspective. Insignificant but annoying.
Peace,
AJ
Funny how things come to us. It occurred to me this evening that part of the anger and frustration I've been feeling has been more related to fairness. Silly huh? But I don't think I realized how it was affecting me.
The issue is my kids. I'm frustrated and angry how they were unfairly treated by my stbx and how her decisions affect them. And me consequently of course. I do know that they will work out what they work out. But they miss out on having two parents during their teen years. They miss out on that foundation. It bothers me.
Just sayin'
For me, getting something out in the open is a way of dealing with it. This is now out in the open.
Cheers,
AJ
Yuck. Thought I was done with that crud. That feeling of dread and general low feelings. I know what brought it about. The conversation with the STBX the other night. Can't help but feel it's like looking at somebody in the eyes and feeling that knife slide up the back. Ever so slowwwwly.
I also know it doesn't last long. That's a plus.
And it's not really realistic. She can't really hurt me any longer. She can make it a pain with the kids, but that's about all. She is trying based on the emails. And heck, I have been trying to get her to want to spend more time with them for years.
It's just crazy. I shouldn't live like this. I should keep my sights where they belong. Heck, that's been the struggle all along really. Keeping my perspective (i.e. sanity) during all of this. It goes back years and crept in slowly, so I don't beat myself up about it. Just is part of the journey out of the hole I was in.
But damnit, I'm ready to be out of it. And to stop sliding around and back into it, even if just a little bit.
Enough griping. I'm going to do something more positive with my evening.
AJ
More positive helped. Much better perspective now. Could use some sleep, but we can't have it all, right?
Met with a friend who went through similar with her husband. She is just starting to date and is about to be dumped by the first guy she started to trust. I can see it plainly - she needs to learn to trust her own instincts again. It's easy to see because I am on the outside of that one. Funny how that works, eh?
I also sent a (I thought) positive note to stbx letting her know that she doesn't have to be worried about time with the kids. She sent me an email and started it with, "per the sep agreement" checking to see about time with the kids for Easter. Easter happens to fall on my daughter's 16th birthday as well this year. At first I was a bit angry about the way stbx worded things. I let that go and instead noticed that it would put my daughter in a tug of war. I opted to not do that and instead suggested my stbx pick the kids up the night before, even though it's my weekend with the kids. I just can't put my kids into a tug of war - this isn't because of them. It's not about them. They deserve better than that and I can help in this case, even though it's not what I want. So I let stbx know that, and her reply was still caustic. I wasn't clear from her writing that this was about Easter, and her caustic response to me asking about it wasn't necessary. I thought about it and decided to let her know that starting a message with "per our sep agreement" came across as angry and fearful and that since she told me she was neither, it wasn't necessary. That's as nice as I can be towards her. It's as nice as I would be towards a stranger, so I don't feel like I'm giving her any special attention.
Anyway, I'm worried about my relationships with my kids as they still try to understand the difference between how things were and how they are now. As they try to understand what is, in the end, not understandable. There is no explanation and believe me I tried to get one. I got many conflicting ones instead. It was pointless to try when all was said and done.
I still notice the anger. I still can't figure out why it's there. Instead I'll adjust my interactions to protect my kids and my interest and leave it at that. I have better things to do...
Peace,
AJ
I'm getting better at the kid time too. Last year I was very, very protective of my time with them. Now ... if it makes sense to give up some time for their good then I do it.
I gave up asking STBXW why a long, long time ago. I still think about why she chose to bankrupt both of us -- and perhaps her mother -- and limit the resources available to our daughters. I don't think I'll ever stop totally.
Yeah, don't get me wrong. My mind looks for "why" all the time. I'm a super-curious person to begin with. Once, when I left a job years ago, they gave me a book of answers to all kinds of trivial things. They used to joke about it but I love that book.
The thing is, I like a good puzzle. I do. But this is not a solveable puzzle. At least not by me. I know that. I accept that. I ask why anyway, not because I need an answer to this, but because it is who I am. Always have been and likely will be.
I can honestly say I still love her. But not in the same way. I cannot picture myself with her. Not even walking beside her on the street. I used to look at what she said and trusted her to do what she said. I don't any longer. I learned. I thought for a while it might be me or something about the way I was towards her. It wasn't. This divorce has very little to do with me and I know that. I've gone over everything about me, us, our past etc. Belive me, I have had a long time to do that and many sleepness nights looking and searching for things. I did find some things about me I didn't like. I changed them long ago. There were not too many, and many were reactionary behaviors. I don't like to react but rather prefer to act. That is one reason it took me so long to change some of the things I didn't like - I refused to believe I was reacting to something. But I was.
I don't even ask why she wanted out any longer. I still don't understand it, but come to realize I won't and that even if I did, it is meaningless. Instead I look at the actions. Past and present. And I choose to deal with those as I have to in the best way that I can. I am at peace with that.
I have not been protective of the kids w regards to the time. I was jealous. My mind was screaming, "don't you know what she did?!??" or "don't you know that man is not her 'friend'?!??" I don't do that any longer. Instead, I choose to let that go.
I realize my emotions are still around. They are not as strong as they once were, but I do still work on things. I do still realize that I have to deal with her and loathe that time when I do. Why? Because I don't appreciate being treated that way. By anyone. And I've been treated poorly for a very long time without lashing out. It's stressful, but I find that it brings me more peace if I let it go than if I react. Most of the time. Some times it is appropriate to get angry and react to the junk she pulls. For respect if nothing else.
I also realize that she has to fight very hard to not respect me. I get that. I don't take pride in that but I recognize it. And the more I think about it, it's possible that's why she had tears in her eyes when talking to me the other day. It may have been that rage being held back and being scared that I'll be what she has constructed in her mind. I at least can admire that she faced me anyway. I have no respect for her. I feel sorry for her sometimes, but that passes quickly. She made her choices. I am making mine. The rest will be dealt with as it comes up.
I look back and know I treated her well. I know that because I went back over all of it a while back. I could see with clarity there was NOTHING else I could have done at any time in our relationship. I am at peace with that. I know that I'll find somebody else and be able to have a great relationship with them. Not because I've changed greatly, but because I can and I because I will change with somebody else. And be very happy with that.
What's ahead? There be dragons...
Peace,
AJ
Had a great weekend. Well mostly. I do have a teenage daughter after all. I can see, after going through similar with my stbx that this is something my daughter needs to do. I notice that she is great and nice and polite with others but venemous towards me. I joked with a friend that I could say the exact same thing as the stranger next to me and that person would be hailed as a genius while I am given venemous and evil glances.
I'm ok with that. Really. While it is NOT any fun, I see it as a normal thing for her growth. It doesn't feel wrong if that makes sense?
I was so worried for so long about how the kids were acting that this is something I see with mixed emotions. While I miss my little girl and refuse to be treated poorly, I am glad that she is struggling for her independence. And trusts me enough to do that. That sounds bad, but I know that she would have a harder time if she didn't trust me. I still remember the conversation we had about her and if I would love her no matter what she did or became. I follow the french backing method here: great bread like great children, need a strong foundation to grow properly. I will do that for her
I didn't spend much time thinking about the past this weekend. I did realize however that I am coming to terms with some of the things holding me back. For example, I feel robbed of my children's teen years and being able to be a solid parental front during that time. As I mentioned before, I think that plays back into my not being sure I'm done wanting children. I need to put the two to rest and I can feel myself working on those issues. Almost there
I also realized that I am very much working to forgive myself and my inability to save my marriage alone. There is nothing I could have done differently. I know that. It seems I just haven't accepted all of that yet. Identification is the first step, right?
Otherwise, things are good. Still have to get the sep agreement and house squared away, but it's moving along. Slower than I'd like of course.
It is funny though. I was talking to a friend last night who is going through a hard time. She was talking about when she was in grad school and the stress and how she needed meds. She stopped taking them a while back and may have to go back on them. When she mentioned that stress level and needing meds it took me back to watching my stbx and how she handled or didn't handle stress. And her seeming anxiety about things. She worries about the strangest things even now from the little interaction we have. It's bizarre to me.
I heard the words. I went back briefly to that place and realized that no matter what, the actions are what count. The reasons are immaterial when all is said and done. She chose what she chose. I have made my choices - I told her if she left again, it was final. She had already mentioned divorce and was already mixed up the boyfriend for a long period of time. Enough is enough. Was and is. In effect, while she did the leaving, I am now following through on my promises (I always do so it's no surprise, but it is a little later internally than I thought it would be). I am leaving her. I have been for a long time now. I see that. But I see it much more clearly now and realize it more and more. I think it has to be that I leave her even after the fact. I thought that would matter, but it seems more important now.
Cheers,
AJ
Sheesh. If it's not one thing, it's another
Got a response to the house pre-qual letter I've been trying to get. It makes it look like the house is worth a heck of a lot more. Her lawyer responded that she thought I was hiding money. LOL. As if.
Then there was the issue of my daughter and I. She and I argued the other day. She's 15 and taking advantage of the situation. I don't blame her. We argued over her treatment of me and her choices on facebook. It's complicated only because her mother and I don't talk. Leaves her room to do what she wants. Guess what? She is.
So the argument got heated and I got in her face. She raised her hands to me and I decided it was time to cool it off and made her sit down on the ground. Twice. My son walked over as well, but went inside after that. After daughter cooled off, the three of us sat down to discuss. She was angry to say the least, but then she was angry anyway even before that. She doesn't want to be told what to do. I can understand that. But I also can't allow that kind of behavior. That would be unparental of me in my opinion.
Anyway, that's now how the conversation with the lawyer went. I expected that. Especially once I went after stbx for her parenting or lack thereof since that's what she accused me of. I pointed out to her that if that were the case, she wouldn't have left the kids with me. So honestly, I expected this from her or worse. There will be more I'm sure because I'm not stupid: I do realize that for her to deal with herself she has to make what she said come true if she can. Or at least look for the opportunities to make it seem true.
I stand by my decisions to parent my children and not be disrespected nor threatened. I honestly believe my child deserves to be parented and to know she is being looked after. It still [censored] though.
Anyway, just venting. We'll see how it goes. I've seen this sort of thing in others prior to this, and I have no doubt it will take time to go through the process. Sadly, I suspect my daughter will be off to college by then.
AJ
Update:
Yep, it's painful to see my daughter push away even more. But I still stand by my decisions. I talked it out with several friends; why? Just to see. If there is somewhere I need to improve, I want to do it. But I see my place as her father. As her father some things are unacceptable. They cannot be allowed. Unfortunately the situation allows for her to run and hide from that.
So, I stand by what I did and you know what? I stand by the parenting I've done all along. I knew that already, but today I reexamined that because that's how I am. I constantly do that.
I believe wholeheartedly that I have and continue to do the right thing by my children with or without her help.
Confirmation class was interersting tonight. We had a guest speaker come in with a tora. It was very interesting. My son and I couldn't stop talking about it. Pretty cool.
Later,
AJ
Update:
My son and I had a conversation the other night. My daughter is trying to get him to go with her to a rowing event on my birthday. I could feel his pain as he was looking at what to do. I told him I would like him to go with me and pointed out that it wasn't her only or last event. I also told him if he wanted to spend some time with his mom (it's her birthday too) that night, to go for it. I told him at no time will I put him in a position to have to choose. This wasn't what he asked for and I in no way will put him or his sister in that position.
Otherwise, I have a new mort broker working for me. He's doing a bang up job and moving things right along. That's good news!
Looking forward to the weekend and getting some much needed downtime. If any can be had... New job duties are starting to creep in
AJ
Nothing big to report. Had a great weekend.
Still not heard from my teenage daughter. Go figure. I did however occur to me that she is trying to fill the vacancy so to speak. Yikes. She is trying to mother my son and trying to be her mother. I may be wrong about that, but I've learned to recognize that I'm more often right. I am not sure what to do about that if anything, but just noting it for now.
Birthday is coming up. Big 40. Wheeeeeeee.... Looking forward to it, and plan to run a race that day. Should be fun. Haven't done that type of race in years, although plenty of 5k races. Looking forward to it.
Peace,
AJ
Still waiting to hear from the lawyers. The suspense.. is interesting. Still very little contact from my daughter. Spending quite a lot of time with my son though, which is good.
I was thinking more about my daughter. She is doing her best from what I can see. She is taking advantage of the situation, which seems normal to me. I would likely do the same. Still painful especially since she misses the opportunity to learn how to resolve conflict and take responsibility for her actions. That'll have to wait for now. I see that. I don't like it, but I see it.
Otherwise, I feel work sucking me in deeper. I can make the time though, so not a bad thing really. I'm thinking of going back to school as well. To get some new skills and maybe finish my degree. There's no money involved but it may be useful and it is a goal of mine. I've started looking at schools that I can attend at night. Looking forward to it...
AJ
Update: Ok. I'm a dummy. I finally got a chance to wait on the phone to talk to my mortgage company. Turns out I'm the only name on the mortgage. Duh. I remember now, but I also know why I didn't remember. Stress. My lawyer may decide to strangle me for it, but so be it. Nice surprise.
I'm looking forward to my kids being home tonight. Hopefully a good evening. I have to take daughter to the eye doc tomorrow, so I'll need her to be at the house. Son is already there. He's a funny lad....
My stbx's brother and wife had a child a couple of days ago. They look very happy and I'm very happy for them. You may recall that the bomb got dropped about a month after their then 12 year old son comitted suicide. They just had a healthy baby boy. I've been kidding my brother in law about the baby. He's very happy and it's fun to kid him about it. I couldn't help it: I joked with him that the baby got his looks because his mom kept hers
And life goes on...
Hope to hear from the lawyer later today and put the sep agreement to rest. I'm tired of the distraction. I'm tired of the holding pattern. I'm just tired of that part of my life and feeling like I'm stuck in "can't move forward land" (at least with the legal details.)
cie la vie. But life is good and I'm happy to be in it!
Peace,
AJ
Note from the lawyer today. To follow up from yesterday I sent over the deed in trust (found it online. So much information available...)
She talked with stbx's lawyer and her lawyer came back asking about adding another 401k into the deal. Sheeeeeeesh. When is enough enough?
My lawyer was ok with me getting her that information. She said it would make it easier to finalize things. I hope so. This is getting tiring. Or maybe it's way past that and now that I'm seeing the end in sight I'm getting impatient. I'll have to watch that about myself...
Daughter is still staying away. Breaks my heart but I also put myself in her shoes and I can see why. Really doesn't seem that abnormal to me other than she has options available to her that are gut-wrenching to watch her take. I'll have to continue to monitor from afar...
Later,
AJ
Update:
Still waiting to hear from the lawyer. Worked with her yesterday to correct some mathematical issues (about 12K worth in my favor). Silly lawyers and their math....
I feel changes in me again. Seems to go in fits and starts, but I feel it coming again. Not a bad thing, but more moving forward. I suspect I'm just feeling the end of the negotiations (again?) and like a horse heading for the stable, I'm ready to get there and get this off my radar.
Other things? Things are good. Work, personal life, etc are all good. I could stand for my daughter to be less rude, but the more I think about it, the more I think this is mostly normal and partially her way of showing her displeasure at the situation. She has stayed away from lashing out at me for the whole thing, and I suspect as she learns to trust her mother more (again), she is now shifting things to take it out on me. I know it isn't me, but rather her anger that she is aiming at me and also her wanting to control her own life without any intervention from me. She has options and in her place I might have done the same.
She has made some comments in the past few months about how she thinks I'm acting like a child because I won't talk to her mom. She also commented that I should sell the house (that was interesting) and hints at why don't I have a girlfriend (presumably like her mom has a boyfriend.) I don't expect her to understand any of that. It took me quite a while to understand all of that and why I make my choices the way I do. There really is no way to get her to understand either. She'll just have to figure things out her way and I'll have to be patient and wait to be more actively invovled. I'm thinking when she is 25 or so? (just kidding)
Peace!
AJ
ajm .. are your kids in family therapy?
it concerns me that you seem to be taking a non-chalant position in your daughter's behaviour - chalking it up to her being a teenager. it's like you're hoping things will just work out in the end .. and you won't get involved for the time being.
i dunno .. just what it looks from an outside view.
it's good that you're moving on .. and there is less anger from you. but you need to work on that father/daughter relationship.
My 12-year-old already is having teen issues and the next few years really worry me. There's a fine line between being involved and trying to control time when they are at the ex's house.
DIL, I appreciate that feedback. I really do and it's a question I was asked by a friend last night as well. The thing is, I'm not sure where to go from here. My kids have so far refused therapy and the ex isn't helpful on that front. I was hoping that the last legal salvo she sent would result in a mandated therapy session for the kids. But I can't count on that.
I'm honestly open to suggestions on this one. I know my daughter is angry and soooooo much more and it's really not about me in many ways. I can look back and see that. But she is angry at us both for the situation and lately has just been swinging back to the ex as the favored parent. But it is not right and I am not hoping for the best or things to work out. I'm hoping for a way I can help my daughter and my son and I'm coming up blank. Still reaching out to others to look for help, but haven't found it yet.
If you have suggestions or advice or anything, I'd love to hear it. I really would.
Thanks for taking the time,
AJ
the obvious answer is .. you need to get them into family therapy. find a female therapist who is experienced with teenagers.
just because you are divorcing your wife, it doesn't wipe away your duties as a father. and father knows best.
if your daughter says she wants fried chicken for breakfast, lunch, and dinner .. what are you going to say? she doesn't know better that it will clog her arteries down the road. but you as a father, have to know when to put your foot down.
don't let your daughter walk all over you like a doormat. one of the things i noticed with a lot of divorcing parents is that they crank up the coddling with their kids .. saying stuff like .. they didn't ask for this .. they are so innocent .. i just want to make sure they are happy because they don't deserve this, they shouldn't have to suffer .. blah blah ..
kids know it. and they use it to their advantage. teenagers especially.
who's in control? the kids or the parents? if your kid wants to dress like a hooker to school, are you going to say .. well, she's a teenager .. she's not going to listen to me.
uh .. nfw. yeah, your kids may be totally against the idea of therapy but you need to know that it's best for them because you don't know how to help them at the moment.
and does it matter if your stbxw doesn't go along with it? is that her decision? uh no. as far as you're concern, you are not a team. you need not run anything by her. you are a single parent .. with a single vote that counts. YOURS.
don't ever rely on the courts to make a decision for you. to have the courts decide on what's best for your kids is like asking the bum off the street which stocks to include in your investment portfolio.
sorry, if i seem a little bit abrasive .. but D4MIL operates in a no-coddling zone. i was raised on tough love and i've seen tough love work on others. kids who have been coddled are always weaker and less capable of surviving in the real world.
i spend a lot of time on the other marriage board and i've had a rough week scolding many to get off their butts and move on.
but in a nutshell .. you need to be the parent and know what's best for your kids. the fact that another friend asked you the same thing, says something about what you're doing now is .. not working. get help before it's too late.
parents splitting up isn't a free pass for your kids to act out.
I agree that therapy is a good idea but, speaking from experience, it does matter if the other parent objects to therapy...legally it can get tricky.
There is a great program called Parenting with Love and Logic and it talks about how we have to sometimes let our kids experience the natural consequence of something...that controlling them and telling them what to do because"we know best" isn't necessarily a good thing
for instance
my kids have a bed time...not super strict but pretty basic and average (theya re 12 and 13 and lights out at 10pm) INstead of fighting with them and tryign to bust them when they are up later with a movie on and then getting into a p*ssing match almost, Love and Logic says to let them know that you don't approve
"OK guys, you know lights out at 10. It's 10:30 and the TV is still on."
"But moooooooooooooooooooooooooooom, EVERYONE is staying up late to watch this movie and I want to finish it."
In my house, my mom would have reached over, shut the TV off and that would have been the end of the discussion except for me thinking what an unfair witch she was and how she didn't know anything.
Love and Logic says...let YOU be right
"OK...I am not going to argue with you about this. You know when lights out is and you know it is because when you stay up later then you are grumpy and don't want to get up for school. You won't be allowed to sleep in and I don't want to hear you complain."
The next day, they ar a bear to get up...complaining and whining and not wanting to go to school. I say, as cheerfully as morning allows... "Sorry guys, no time to listen to the complaints. I am sorry you are tired but there is no skipping school for being tired or having a headache." then walk away
I did not engage them
they learned a natural consequence
and
I got to be right for a change!!!
CHeck it out...it is a really good concept
if we don't allow kids to experience natural consequences (obviously for things that aren't life threatening) they won't learn those lessons and they NEED to learn them before they go off on their own
although i agree that natural consequences is a good way for kids to learn.
however, in ajm's case .. his daughter has obvious anger issues stemming from the divorce. she needs to talk to someone who isn't mom or dad. she needs to go to a trusted adult who is experienced with dealing with anger from divorce. to me, this is a completely different beast.
staying up late is one example .. but a mild one.
but look at my example of eating fried chicken all the time. go ahead, keep eating fried chicken. what are the consequences? a heart attack .. whoops .. do you think they'll learn next time? oh wait, there is no next time because he/she is dead. even if he/she isn't dead .. kid will become obese .. get taunted in school for being the fat kid. to lose weight when you're 200 lbs is not easy .. the natural consequences may not manifest itself until later and then you have a bigger problem (no pun intended) on your hands. at that point, do you think it'd help to say "i was right .. that's what you get for eating fried chicken every meal for all these years"?
my second example .. daughter wants to dress like a hooker to school. you want to let her go to school like that so she can suffer the natural consequences? ok .. she'll just be labelled the school slut for her entire high school career .. scar her emotionally for the rest of her life .. the boys will greet her with cat calls in the hall .. even worse, rape. is that the kind of natural consequences that you want to put your daughter through? will you really be proud of yourself afterwards and say "i was right, you shouldn't have dress like that to school but you didn't listen to me". passive aggressive parenting.
there is a time and place for natural consequences but this is not one of those times. ajm's daughter's emotional health is at stake .. do not compare it to enforcing a curfew.
it's not about controlling them. it's about doing what's best for your child's health. if she is okay after 1 or 2 sessions, she doesn't have to continue. nobody is forcing her to stay in therapy if she doesn't need. it.
Thank you both for those replies. DML, I was thinking earlier that you hit the head on the nail - I am waiting. I was coddling to some degree and over the past six months have been reeling that back in. Part of the difficulty is the knowledge that my daughter has some choices. Perhpaps that's where the issue is in my head. I haven't figured out how to deal with that aspect.
I did start reaching out to some professionals today. Should be meeting with them later in the week to discuss and strategize. The conversation with my friend was last night and this morning I found that I couldn't shake it. That he's right on many levels.
I've been the sole parent (mostly) for the last several years. The dynamic is that my daughter also wants a relationship with her mother. I get that. I'm not hung up on the coddling. That's past and was more because of my own inability to gain my footing. I was surprised by all of this and while not an excuse, I can look back and see that I didn't have my head in the game for quite a while. At the same time, my daughter was on her best behavior (kind of holding her breath to see what would happen). But I can see that in the past few months things have changed drastically and she is more overtly taking advantage of the situation. I don't blame her, but I can't let that happen either. I can only be her parent and do my best. What I'm trying to figure out is what is the best for her - to force her into therapy, or to wait a little longer and see if it works itself out. So far, I've waited to see how things would work out and to see if it's really at that point. I'm becoming very convinced it is. This is new to me, and I'm no expert. That's why I asked.
Thanks for the feedback, all of you. Very helpful in figuring this out.
And you are correct - I don't need her mom's approval nor permission to do the right thing. Never did and don't plan on it. I also really don't care about the legal aspects, except where it concerns my daughter's well being. I'm much more concerned about my daughter and can easily let the rest go - they aren't important comparitively speaking.
Cheers,
AJ
Part of the difficulty is the knowledge that my daughter has some choices. Perhpaps that's where the issue is in my head.
are you afraid that she will choose her mother over you because she wants a relationship with her mother? and this is what causes you to coddle? cuz you've been the sole parent for so long .. it hurts to think your child will want to choose her mother over you. i get it.
i think you're doing a great job. instead of dragging her to therapy, start off by going to therapy yourself and discuss ways on how to deal with your daughter.
they might even help you get her into family therapy.
good luck and keep us posted. i'm not always around but i'll drop by and follow up.
I don't know the whole background but forcing therapy is NEVER a good idea...it can be offered up but you can not FORCE someone to talk in therapy
eating fried chicken every day would only happen if fried chicken were available for every meal
they might want to eat but tough luck if we don't have it
dressing like a hooker as an excuse for rape is insulting
and
have you seen the clothes teenagers wear to school? iy yi yi!!!!
I can't control what clothes my son buys with his own money but I can control what stores I take him too
she may be talking to someone at school or you can even offer options like
there is a therapist blah blah blah that I would like you to see
if you don't want to see her
what about so and so?
I would like you to decide to try to talk to at least one therapist or I will have to stop paying for your cellphone. You can chose to get a job and pay for your cellphone yourself but you have to attend at least 3 sessions in order for me to keep paying for you
natural consequence
she has a choice and she is allowed to choose
she may be talking to someone at school or you can even offer options like
there is a therapist blah blah blah that I would like you to see
if you don't want to see her
what about so and so?
I would like you to decide to try to talk to at least one therapist or I will have to stop paying for your cellphone. You can chose to get a job and pay for your cellphone yourself but you have to attend at least 3 sessions in order for me to keep paying for you
this is a good approach.
but i didn't say to force her to go to therapy as you alluded to.
Thanks guys and gals. I have actually offered it several times in the past, and at the suggestion of the therapist didn't force it. At the same time, I can force it and I know that, but I am concerned about the damage that might do at the same time.
I am meeting with a professional tomorrow (my pastor who is also a family therapist.)
Good question by the way. Am I worried she will choose her mom? Not really. That's not the concern I have here. I think she will choose her mom anyway - think of it like this: for the past several years she has had little relationship with her mom. Her mom was too focused on other things. That's what I mean when I say I was the sole parent. She was around from time to time, but not really parenting or available. She was wrapped up in her own life to the exclusion of others including the kids. Certainly the kids ranked above me in the order of things, but that's not saying much in the big picture. The kids know that. They came to me before I was aware of what she was doing and told me they missed their mom. That's when I became aware of what she was about to do because it led to the discussion. I'd do that again in a flat minute because I knew the risks (I knew something was up, but didn't know what and knew she had a lot on her plate. I knew that adding something about come back to spend time on your kids would be adding more stress to her) and know that I did the right thing.
As far as the choices I make, I am not worried about me and I am not worried my daughter will choose her mom. I expect she will and has. That's ok with me in the sense that I cannot control that without possibly causing my daughter more emotional harm. Am I coddling her? I did for a while but that stopped a long time ago. It's just that I am aware of the dynamic and the situation. I almost feel like I have to let her go to get her back if that makes sense.
She has been on a path to idolize her mom and to make me the bad guy seems par for the course in that sense. It's not just me that's noticed this trend - my friends have as well as her friends. I suspect my daughter is trying so hard to please her mother and win her affection that her behavior really doesn't surprise me other than the timing.
Consequences are important. I have a role to play in her life still and will do so. Asking for help in figuring this out is more about not damaging the child. Knowing that although it may be distasteful or painful to me, it is the right thing to do. That is and always has been my promise to my children and I will not stop now even though the dynamic is different. I am and always have been responsible for my own actions and the raising of my children - the stbx's leaving and subsequent "nuttiness" (pistachio?) don't relive me of that responsibility.
Thanks for the feedback guys and gals. It is very helpful to me.
AJ
Aj...
My daughter is a teenager too, and I have struggled with this immensely over the past year, since her Mother moved out.
One of the things I try to do is separate what is normal "teenage" behavior from what is learned behavior.
I try to address the things I feel are important to address ( learned) and deal with the rest as it comes up.
I tell her that I have zero experience being a teenage girl, and I need her to help me try to understand her. Sometimes I succeed, while other times I fail.
Around the 6-8 month mark of her Mother moving out, she went through this huge anger phase with me. Almost like having her Mother back for a while...LOL
So I asked questions from the people I knew that had been through this. With experience in dealing with a WAW/MLC and having teenager daughters.
I had asked my daughter why she was so angry with me, and she said she didn't realize that she was. So I asked her why she was angry with anything, and she said that she was angry, yet she didn't know why she was. Now, I could assume all that I wanted to based on history, but to be sure, I wasn't.
One thing that I learned from a poster here, who had been through some serious issues with her daughter, was that, what appears to be right on the outside, is not what is inside. That her daughter had been in counseling for right around three years, and some of the things that were coming out now, were things from three years ago. All of that anger and resentment that had built up over the years, she had no clue how to express that. So when she said she didn't know, she was correct.
And that her anger was there, yet without the knowledge of how to express it, it came out to the "safe" parent. What that meant was, that she was afraid to express anger toward the WA/MLCer, because she felt that she would lose that parent if that anger came out to them.
I mean, that parent had left because they were angry at their spouse, so why would it be any different if they got angry with their child ? So they entered this "safe room" with the wayward spouse. To not show any anger toward their actions. That would guarantee their relationship. And all of that anger, that was still there, got unleashed on the safe parent, the parent they knew would always be there for them. The parent that wasn't going anywhere, and it was a safe zone for them to vent their frustrations.
Essentially, they could get as angry as they wanted with the "safe" parent without the fear of losing them.
Now, while I get this concept, I still do not excuse the behavior, and I use that knowledge to work through issues instead of throwing my hands up and not understanding her.
The "learned" part is always going to be a struggle for you, until she is older and finds her own way. All I can recommend is that you do not accept that behavior from her and not let her be the parent because you may not understand her right now. She has seen the way she wants to act from an example of behavior you stated you will not accept. So why would you allow that same pattern from your daughter ?
OMG. It's like you know me.
For the longest time I have thought those exact thoughts. But I have not been able to figure out how to connect. I've gotten calls from some concerned parents at church suggesting that daughter is "idolizing her mom." and other similar suggestions. I have felt, since daughter's conversation with me about loving her no matter what that this started then and that she was moving away from me. Taking out her frustration and anger on me. "just like I was living with her mom again." Oi. The gift that keeps on giving, right? (I shouldn't joke, but it's that or lose my mind.) I even felt like daughter was trying to take over the role of "mother" with her brother and wondered about that. I noticed she has started saying really mean things to me a little while back such as, "why aren't you dating too?" and "why not sell the house?" but it was the way she said it that really got my attention. She really did say it the same way her mother said things when she was being mean. Like she was channeling or something. Creepy weird.
Thanks Mach. I'll bring that up when I talk with the pastor tomorrow. I do those things now, but feel like I'm at a bit of a dead end at the moment and am very concerned about my daughter. May just be she needs some time, but I'm wondering if I need to take some action in this. She is silent at the moment.
I very much appreciate that feedback. You have really articulated my past 6 months and much of my thinking. I deeply appreciate it.
AJ
Update:
Met with the pastor. Very nice of him to do that. He pretty much reinforced the same things I was thinking and the same things my father has been telling me. Love my daughter, but give her her space. One of the things that came up is that she is struggling for her adulthood. Part of that is trying on her mother's persona. I've noticed that in the past few months as have several other friends. Seems natural for a child to do that.
His bottom line of advice? Let my daughter know I love her but don't pressure her at this point. I suspect he is right. We both agree she needs therapy as well. The trick now is how to get that for her without causing damage to her long term.
Kids should come with a handbook
Speaking of my father being right. Pastor felt that stbx was and is trying to hurt me out of revenge for what she thinks I did. Oddly, I didn't do it, but that's not important apparently
Texted her last night about closing out a bill. She responded she's busy but have I signed the papers for the realty contract. No.
Got a call from the realtor this morning asking about it. Turns out stbx lowered the price and wants it to be a six month contract. Not sure why, but she seems hell bent on making me sell the house. It's very likely we would both lose money if we sold, vs. her walking away with money in her pocket if she accepts my offer. From my perspective she has something else in mind because that's not a rational response to the offer. We could be in for six more weeks of winter I guess.
Pastor was joking and said I should hope she marries the boyfriend so that she'll get off my back. That is funny but he is half serious as well. I find myself almost hoping my wife will marry this guy and then feel guilty for what he'll get out of it and then ok with it since he deserves what he gets on this one for his part in all of this. Oh the wild emotions. LOL. Honestly, I don't care, but it is kind of funny to think along those lines.....
Waiting on the lawyers to do their thing.
AJ
Update:
Still waiting. For Sale sign came down this morning.
I realized after talking yesterday to the pastor (again, I realized. I've known this) that this isn't about me. This is about the "image" of me she has designed in her head. It helps to explain why in the past I felt like she was painting pictures and couldn't make them fit with me in the picture. Why she had to leave; so that I wouldn't be there to mess up her pictures (partly).
Madness? Perhaps. But that's her journey at this point. I have other issues to worry about such as the health of my children and protecting them from her as much as I can while also raising them.
The nuttiness shall continue until....it stops. No telling why it is happening, but I can face the reality (now) and see that what I'm hearing from several sources is true. It won't stop for a very long time if at all. She is hell bent on being the victim and making me to be the monster that she really is.
Never would have thought prior to all of this, but it is what it is. Funny thing is, I know she loves the kids. I can feel that. But I can't tell if she loves herself more. I suspect so and for that I can see that helping the kids is completely up to me where possible.
Peace,
AJ
ajm .. very curious to know.
are you moving on?
is journaling helping you?
Am I moving on? Yes. Very much so. Very slowly. Still.
I'm well past the point of ever taking her back; past that a long time ago really. It's just not possible and I'm slowly coming to terms with the reality I see and had hoped not to. I see that my concerns are valid
I haven't been wrong to date, sadly. I do see that she will continue to try to hurt me for years to come most likely. If I let her, she will do damage. I see that to be true.
I only post parts when I journal. It helps to discuss some of these things for me. To be able to journal them, is cathartic in some ways. Part of me also hopes journaling here will later help somebody else dealing with similar emotions and issues.
I also come here to get some advice. That has been helpful. When I look for advice, I look to many sources and this is one of them.
What makes you ask? Still see some pain in my posts? Incredulity? I suspect so. I expect that to continue for a while as well. See, the further I get from this, the more things "click" into place. Things said a long time ago now make sense. Seeds were planted, and now I get it.
While I am moving on, I also know that you can't just break and walk away clean. Unless you're a WAS I guess
(that was humor; I don't think anyone can just suddenly walk without being nutz). It really does take time to disentangle. I'm done. No mistake. But I still have things to deal with and so I journal about them.
Did you see something different in my posts? Or was there another reason you were asking?
AJ
would it be possible for you to journal about other things going on in your life? i think it's great that you are moving on and that this may help others with similar issues.
what is your week like?
I haven't been wrong to date, sadly.
i almost took this out of context .. and i thought you were dating. i read it a second time and then went .. ohhhh .. that's what he meant.
instead of journaling about just your interactions and thoughts on stuff surrounding your sitch .. journal about the other stuff too.
what kind of things are you working on? any home projects? travelled anywhere interesting? meet any new people?
when do you get your kids? what kind of things do you do with your kids? i know your daughter is a teenager so it's tough ..
i guess i'm too lazy to read this from the beginning.
LOL. I was just coming here to journal about the sit. Just quickly: turns out tax time is here. We have a choice - file married but sep, and we both pay. File joint, and we both get money back. Who knew? :0)
The rest of my life is pretty good. And yes, I am dating - cautiously and without expectations or comittments. I don't think now is the time in my life for deep comittments ya know?
I really like people. I've been making all KINDS of new friends. That was something I put off to focus more on my family the past few years of my marriage. I missed that the most. I am a people person who works in a technical field. I work in an IT department as a lead engineer/architect/consultant/chief cook and bottle washer. I'm hoping to start a new job in the next few weeks. I've been at this company in the same position with very little changes for 5 years this Easter. I am focusing at the moment on about 7,000 different things, and as my boss jokes, all my assignments are priority 1. Just that they are priority 1a, 1b, 1c, etc. I'm the guy they throw in when tact, decorum, and sanity need to be restored. I am also the guy that does a lot of international interaction work with other IT shops in our company. Years ago I specialized in Microsoft messaging technologies, but these days I'm a master of all trades (as far as the customers know). I took on the additional responsibilities two weeks ago for the new position prior to officially getting it. That makes me busier these days than I have been. But I enjoy the challenge, and like I said, I really do like people.
I've been running for the past 2 years. I had stopped for a long time, again, to focus more on the family and job. I originally took this particular job as a way to stay closer to home and have a more flexible schedule so I could take care of the kids while she went back to Dental school to be a dentist v.s the hygienist she already was. It was her life-long dream to become a doctor. Seemed a good fit and I'm sure she'll be a good one. I left a good job with international travel (love that too) to take this one. Hated this one for a while, but that's more to do with the global market as a whole. It's gotten much better in the past year. I work in a division that is heavily impacted by the US housing market
I get my kids half the time. It's a joint custody thing. They are with me every other weekend and Tuesdays and Wednesdays. Tuesdays because I take my son to and help teach his confirmation class. Middle schoolers are so much fun.... Lately my daughter is not coming over at all. She is unhappy with me. To be more precise, I think she is unhappy and taking it out on me, but perspective is what it is. She will be 16 on Easter this year. My son is 13 going to be 14 in August. I've had the pleasure of raising them mostly by myself and I don't regret taking this job for that reason. Now that the job is getting better and I have broken in my boss, I'm ready for that next challenge. It helps that my kids are older and I don't have to worry so much about them when they get home from school or when they want to stay at a friends house etc.
What do we do together? All kinds of things. When the weather is better, I like to get out and about. When it's not, we might just laze around or do things around the house or whatever. Not terribly important to me to have structured things to do. During the better and warmer weather last year, I took them all over the place to area happenings. I throw parties at the house and they invite their friends over or go to friends houses as well. My son and I will likely play some golf this year. There are many many courses here in North Carolina to choose from. Not that I'm a big golfer (shoulder injury and subsequent surgery changed the swing too much and made it painful; I still play) but I figure it's fun. We've talked about surfing this year now that he's big enough and a strong enough swimmer. I also take them to outdoor plays, running events (son runs too. Daughter is a rower). Pretty much whatever I do outside of a club or bar, they come along and do as well.
Monday throug Wednesday of every week is taken up already for me. With the new duties, Tuesdays are a bear and very late night.
Monday - run club. We have a great local run club that meets at a bar. We run, we drink beer. Can't be much better than that.
Tuesday - confirmation class and conf calls
Wed - downtime with the kids
Thursday - catch up with friends
Friday - whatever
Saturday - yardwork/housework/playtime with the kids when they are there
Sunday - church, playtime/nap?
Rinse and repeat each week until June. In June the confirmation class stops. Tuesdays become less fun and less time consuming. Middle schoolers are a lot of fun. Have I mentioned that?
By and large, I keep a very busy life now. It took a while to pick myself up and rebuild where once there was a crater. One step at a time, I rebuilt it. I tried different things and some stuck and some haven't. I am not given to drinking much. I'm not good at it. I don't care for the strip clubs. I am not a drug addict nor do I partake. Those things are still the same for me. I am a Christian man. I have been for a very long time; was even president of my church years ago. I'm not terribly smart, but I'm not stupid either. I like people. I like to be alone sometimes but I really like being in a crowd of people the most. I get a charge out of that. I like dogs and cats, and I do miss my dogs. I have a very wide variety of interests including travel and academic interests although I have not yet finished my college degree. I prefer to play rather than watch sports. I've considered acting in local theatrical presentations although I don't sing well. I'm good with mechanical things, my hands, and my organizational skills when I put my mind to it. Next Saturday is my 40th birthday.
Oh. And I dislike painting my house although cleaning it is not a big deal. I do need to pain the inside though if I can keep it. I may do it anyway cause it's needed.
What else about me? I spent almost 6 years in the Marine Corps. I am originally from Los Angeles. I am considered a disabled veteran from a legal standpoint (I dislike that considering the injury, but it is what it is.) I have a sister and brother in law in Los Angeles. He works in the business. I have two nephews and now a niece. They are a lot of fun. My brother in law (her brother) just recently had a new son. That's technically still my nephew as well although I may never have occasion to meet him. Hard to say, but they seem very happy and I'm happy for them. They are the ones that lost their son to suicide a few years ago. We still keep in touch, so who knows right?
Last thing about me for now? I am and almost always have been a very positive person. I am a technical person, so I can't say glass is half full kind of guy. I would still wonder if the glass was over engineered if the question came up
My fingers are tired and my phone is ringing so I'm back to work. What about you? What can you tell me about you?
AJ
i just asked a simple question and i got 'war and peace'.
there isn't much to me. just a simple person, living a simple life. like everyone on this board, life dealt me some unfortunate circumstances but life just keeps trucking along. i no longer post here as the memories are not good and it keeps me stuck in a mud puddle that is no longer fun to play in. there is more to life than a mud puddle and i am discovering that as i venture out.
that's probably all i can say about myself.
LOL.
I know what you mean though. It took me a few times to leave the boards and come back before I didn't have those bad memories.
I'm one of those people that keeps facing my issues until I'm bloody and dying or I've made it through. I don't let things fester and never have.
No updates today. Just waiting for the lawyers....
Peace,
AJ
Journaling.
I sense that her lawyer is much of the delays and the reason we have no deal. That's part of it I think. Oh well, I am not in a hurry.
I've been putting more thought into filing vs. not filing. I have no reason not to, but what gives me pause is the principle of it. Since I figure it is in my best interest if she marries the OM, I could almost force that issue by filing for the divorce. She has been so hell bent on me filing it for years. I haven't a clue as to why, but do recall the time she offered me sex if I would initiate the divorce. That mentality (the offer is no good of course :)) has not stopped.
Otherwise, things are good. It's my birthday tomorrow. Looking forward to it. Work is slowly killing me but life is good
Later,
AJ
well let me be the first to wish you a happy birthday.
thank you for being such a great role model on how to handle a yucky situation with dignity and great composure. i read your journal just to know how to deal with it myself.
thanks for not "losing it". you are destined for great things.
cheers,
d4mil
Likewise AJ,
Hope you have a Happy Birthday tomorrow and that you will do something special just for you...
Happy Birthday!! Make it an incredible day.
kat
Thank you for the birthday wishes! This weekend was awesome!!!!
The race was a blast. Weekend with my son, friends, and the race really made for a great time.
AJ
Update:
I know I have been struggling with the idea of me filing for divorce. Why? Because I was on some other threads and I think I haven't fully dealt with that question. I was talking to a friend today and it came up. My issue is that it is the principle of the matter that I do not want to file. But as we were talking, it occured to me that the principle of it really no longer matters. She has done what she has done. That is water under the bridge. She made her choices and mine are mine. Filing is not a defining moment and has no reflection on my integrity any longer. I see that differently than I previously did and it feels right to me whereas before waiting really didn't. It's like it clicked or something. Dunno.
As much as I would like to think I'm done with EVERYTHING, I realize that won't happen any time soon. There will be moments I'm sure....
But I'm totally cool with that. It is what it is and I'm happier than I have been in a very long time. I feel like singing, but is that too Mary Poppins? (j/k)
AJ
Update:
Just when you think...
Got an email from stbx. She's taking the kids to a therapist. Not aware of why, but I'm suspicious of her motives. Maybe it's just me, and I'm glad the kids are going, but...
Anyone else had that happen?
AJ
Update:
I know I have been struggling with the idea of me filing for divorce. Why? Because I was on some other threads and I think I haven't fully dealt with that question.
AJ
Been wondering about something .....
How much of what you are struggling with is about her "winning" ?
Maybe not so much on a conscious level, but deep down...
LOL. If it's not at a conscious level, I'm not sure I can answer that
In seriousness, I suspect there is some of that Disney-like quality about me that wants the "good" guy to win (that'd be me in this case). Don't we all to some degree?
I think there is some of that in the struggle, though Mach. Not as sure about what to do with it and have focused on other things to let go and or deal with. Each one in it's own time...
That was pointed out to me the other day as well, that I may be still feeling victimized. That until I stop with the victim thought, I would be trapped in this.
Ok, I can see that. What I don't yet see is how to let that go and be done with the legal two-step going on at the same time.
I kid you not, there is nothing left for stbx to take. There is nothing left for her to hurt me with. I actually have concerns for my physical well being because of that. I have been thinking I should be cautious about that because some young buck may believe her and decide to inflict violence on me to show her he cares. Silly and sick, but it was a thought I had the other day and I have rarely been incorrect about the actions - just the timing.
Anyway, if you have a suggestion about the competitiveness aspect, I'd be happy to hear it. I don't have anything to "win" except my freedom to be honest. And that is harder and harder to come by....
AJ
I have some of those weird thoughts too. STBXW is/was, I'm not sure anymore, hanging around some bike riding buddies of her bestfriend's. I had this thought that if I had to take a stand if they were around the girls I may be involved in fight with a biker gang.
Highly, highly, highly unlikely. But I had the thought.
I don't think I've given up the having "to win" aspect either. I guess I just feel like I am winning. I have a good social group. I have a house that the girls like. The finances are clearing up. The only thing I guess I don't have is a love interest.
I don't know if that helps other than I felt better as I made progress.
CTH, it absolutely helps. Perspective has been the hardest thing for me. I've been called (rightfully so) naieve, blind, etc. Know what though? I'll take that over screwed up and angry. Any day. I'm not so naive that I don't see things. I'm naive in looking for the best in people. That's just me, and I'm thankful for it.
I've been over every single piece of my personality during the first parts of this storm. Everything. At one point I felt as if I was sandblasted and had nothing but bare metal. I'm faster, stronger, ... wait. I'm not a bionic man
I suspect that the desire to "win" is tied to the desire to protect. I'm not sure that I know the difference between "winning" and protecting myself yet. I do know that part of the protection was to jettison the things I could do without. There is nothing left. I gave it to her. Everything but the house and the kids. She chose to leave much, but that's not because I cared or didn't offer.
I do realize I am a winner. I am the lucky one that doesn't have to live with guilt or try to rationalize the events any longer than I choose with no repurcussions. I have no regrets. I've chnaged the things I needed to. There literally is nothing left to do but walk away.
A love interest? Those aren't hard to find. One worthy of keeping? That's different in my opinion. She was special to me and I wanted her in my life, but I realized early on that I do not "need" her to be. I'm much happier without her than I have been in many years. That's not to say I didn't think I was happy with her and could be happy with her. I could and was. But I find myself happier more and more each day. What I need now is for her to go quietly away and stop trying to hurt me. It feels like she is trying to justify her decision by hurting me. I can handle it, but it's a pain to be harassed like that. I'm tied in because of the kids and that's not a very freeing feeling. I'll do it for them, but would prefer not to have to. Make sense?
Thanks for posting CTH. It does help.
AJ
That was pointed out to me the other day as well, that I may be still feeling victimized. That until I stop with the victim thought, I would be trapped in this.
Ok, I can see that. What I don't yet see is how to let that go and be done with the legal two-step going on at the same time.
I think that is a lot of it...that victim thing. When we get here, it is beat into our heads to let them carry the legal torch with them, and to not file. In the beginning ? I see the benefits of that. Later on, and if we truly do the work, and it's time...then it's time-regardless.
Yet part of us still carries that advice to not do the legal leg-work in this. So I think it does stay with us as a winning or losing thing.
Either way it goes from here, in due time, you will be divorced. I'm pretty sure I am now, just haven't received anything 'final' in the mail yet.
I kid you not, there is nothing left for stbx to take. There is nothing left for her to hurt me with. I actually have concerns for my physical well being because of that. I have been thinking I should be cautious about that because some young buck may believe her and decide to inflict violence on me to show her he cares. Silly and sick, but it was a thought I had the other day and I have rarely been incorrect about the actions - just the timing.
There is still something to take....that would be you. I always wondered why , after nothing was left, there was still this desire for her to twist that knife again and again. When the material things were divided, then it was something else. Still trying to push those buttons. I too, had thoughts and strange feelings for my well being. I don't think anything is too far of a stretch for most of them.
Anyway, if you have a suggestion about the competitiveness aspect, I'd be happy to hear it. I don't have anything to "win" except my freedom to be honest. And that is harder and harder to come by....
AJ
Who woulda thunked it.....that the finality of being divorced doesn't end it ?
gotta laugh on that one....
ajm .. i don't want to t/j this thread of yours .. so please stop me if you feel that i am.
i'm kind of in the same boat. is it about winning? there is a part of me that says "hold out for as long as you can because in the end, it will only be his finger prints on that weapon."
but at the same time, my lazy-ass of a stbxh never did any paperwork when we were married. i was the one who managed the paperwork at home. even when he demanded to sell the house, he did nothing to get the paperwork going. he was all talk and no action. talked a good talk .. loud, obnoxious, name-calling, just pure verbal abuse. his way of motivating me to do something was to berate me verbally.
most of the time, i did the paperwork because i had no faith in his ability to get the job done. he almost sold our house for much less than what it was truly worth. had i not stepped in, we would have lost money. we ended up selling it for a nice chunk but did he appreciate my effort to get more money for the house? no, he ended up calling me a money-hungry biatch who only sees dollar signs. my stbxh simply has no brain and that money can fix everything.
so after years of doing the paperwork and fixing his blunders, do i really want to do the filing? no. i'm not his wife anymore. if he wants to get out of this, he can do it himself. he can pay someone to do it if he'd like .. he can pay his way out of this because that's how he always has been. throw money at the problem to fix it because he can't be bothered to deal with it.
sometimes i think that's why he married me. so he had someone to deal with the paperwork and stuff he didn't want to do - like cleaning toilets that he dirtied and taking out the trash. yeah, those were my duties as a wife.
why should i continue to help him in this mission? just like ajm, i gave away everything already. he took 90% of the contents of the home. i have very little and it was okay. it's just stuff. but he wants more. if you think that there's nothing left .. trust me, evil will find a way to get more. even things that were given to me, he wants back. but everything i gave him, he won't give back to me. my engagement ring, my wedding ring, even small gifts .. if i want to keep those things, i will have to pay him to keep these items. it just won't stop. it won't stop. it continues to gnaw at me ..
at what point, do you stop giving and stop being a doormat? at what point, do you say f* it .. i'm done. i don't care if my fingerprints are on the weapon?
DMIL, it only stops when you decide it stops. When you no longer listen. When you no longer pay attention.
In my state, the wedding ring is marital property. The engagement ring is hers because it was given prior to the union.
I hear what you're saying. My thoughts are actually along those lines. My thought is that I need to put this to an end regardless of her actions. The divorce is going to happen and I will be the one to initiate it if she doesn't beat me to it.
Her anger is incredible. Rage would be a better term. But that's ok. It's not me. I'm not angry. I'm not mad. I'm not defensive. I'm sleepy, but that's different
Going back and forth right now in email. She wants to take the kids to the therapist. When I asked for the information, she is evasive, but it does come from her lawyer and a "friend". I'm asking for his credentials and letting her know I'm concerned about it. She tells me I should be. Hmm... wonder what's next from her
This is becoming very boring more often than not. Very predictable to be honest:
Me: "hello"
Her: "screw you! <insert vile and slanderous things>
I'm the victim and my lawyer says so! You should bow down before me and grovel, you animal!"
I may be exaggerating just a smidgen...
peace,
AJ
DMIL, it only stops when you decide it stops. When you no longer listen. When you no longer pay attention.
In my state, the wedding ring is marital property. The engagement ring is hers because it was given prior to the union.
according to stbxh, the rules don't apply to him. given prior to the union? so what? he believes that because he paid for it, it belongs to him. doesn't matter when it was given, where, why, how .. doesn't matter. he bought it with his money, then he believes it's his. however, gifts given to him from me are his to keep. where they get this bizarre logic is beyond me.
to him, if i believe these items belong to me, then i must be the biggest f*ggin' gold digger who walked the face of the earth. the more reason to divorce me. is it my fault that the state laws are the way they are? apparently so.
Her anger is incredible. Rage would be a better term. But that's ok. It's not me. I'm not angry. I'm not mad. I'm not defensive. I'm sleepy, but that's different
rage is the correct term. i know exactly what you mean. he's angry with me because of the state laws on divorce. is it my fault they are written that way? he didn't read the rules before dropping the d-bomb. it's like he was hoping that dropping the d-bomb was going to hurt me. only to find out that the divorce laws would not work in his favor and now he hates me even more. as if i wrote the rules!
the division of property was extremely painful. oh the greed on his side .. greed combined with rage. i've never been put through so much pain. whatever i got, was what he did not want and what he wanted to give me. i had no say.
i've been called every name in the book. my stbxh is the male version of your w. and i sit here wondering .. what the heck are you so mad about? you wanted this!
when i do get mad, it's more because he's dragging this out longer than he needs to. if he wanted out, then just get it over with and end it. we have no kids to fight over. the law says i'm entitled to 50% of the home. well .. he says no and he'd like to take it all the way up the chain of court to fight it. he won't stop until i am living in a cardboard box under a bridge.
and like you .. i'm tired. i'm a simple girl who didn't need a lavish lifestyle to be happy. i just wanted my h's love and companionship. that's all. i think i'd make a great partner in crime. the adventures i've had with him were great memories for us. i wanted more of that. but his parents got in the way. drove a wedge between us. and now .. they are instructing him to "finish her!"
Can I say that it is not the parents that are causing this? You already know that the blame lies squarely with him though. His choices. He decided regardless of the direction he got.
Rage? Yep. My favorite so far is her timing. She wanted very little when she moved out. Her lawyer says she got a "pittance" Money? Hasn't been enough for her. The list continues. But know what? There is nothing left to argue over. Now that she is coming closer to letting go of the material, it must be time to fight over the kids. The same ones she left on Mother's day a few years ago. It sounds bitter when I say that, but really I don't feel bitter. I'm disappointed that I have been right so far almost without fail. It's going to get more intense in the next year I'm sure. And my physical safety? I really am concerned. My thought is that now that she has time to focus on something other than her school, that she'll use that time and energy to rage against me. If she doesn't get what she wants from the therapist? Nobody really knows, but I'm guessing that it won't be pretty as well.
The thing is, what I was telling you before. It stops when you make it stop. When you let go and don't let it bother you anymore. When you know it'll happen and you see it happen, but remain calm and mean it.
I really have let all the "things" go. The daily barrage? That's another story. I do feel I have to defend myself, except that my method is that of Ghandi - passively. There is no benefit to working hard at defending myself. What happens happens. But I do have to watch out for the kids well being. I do have to ensure I'm getting them what they need and that they are well taken care of by a parent that cares for them. I believe she cares. I do. I believe she cares for them but that she cares about herself more. I do not believe she is getting the therapist for their benefit. Her emails indicate I'm right that she has an alterior motive.
Ok. It is what it is and I'll deal with it accordingly. Just have to put more energy into defending than I'd really like. But I can see how the next few years will play out.
I am tired. But that's of no consequence really. It just is as well.
Time will tell.
AJ
Can I say that it is not the parents that are causing this? You already know that the blame lies squarely with him though. His choices. He decided regardless of the direction he got.
ajm .. for the life of me, i can't seem to see this. it's almost as if i refuse to believe this. you are not the first person to say it .. but it doesn't sink in. and i want to believe you but i feel as if there is a barrier that is preventing me from believing this.
i know that if i do believe this .. i would truly let go. i honestly don't know what it will take.
And my physical safety? I really am concerned. My thought is that now that she has time to focus on something other than her school, that she'll use that time and energy to rage against me.
i don't get it .. why are they (your w, my h) so angry? we didn't ask for this. they started it .. if it doesn't run smoothly or the way they wanted it to be, is it really our fault?
The daily barrage? That's another story. I do feel I have to defend myself, except that my method is that of Ghandi - passively. There is no benefit to working hard at defending myself. What happens happens. But I do have to watch out for the kids well being.
that's very unfortunate. but yeah, i understand the daily barrage. when we were still living together, it was just that .. you never know what you were going home to .. i feared going home. but he convinced his therapist that i was abusive and a threat to his well-being. i walk into the same room as him and i cause his blood pressure to jump .. so i'm a threat. i don't have to say anything .. just my presence is enough to get me labelled as 'abusive'.
be careful if your w pulls that one on you.
ajm .. for the life of me, i can't seem to see this. it's almost as if i refuse to believe this. you are not the first person to say it .. but it doesn't sink in. and i want to believe you but i feel as if there is a barrier that is preventing me from believing this.
i know that if i do believe this .. i would truly let go. i honestly don't know what it will take.
What worked for me when I had those feelings? I realized she is a human being who makes her own choices. I realized she was seeking out people to support her claims. To make her feel sane. I know that. I finally gave myself permission to let go. To allow myself to have failed at singly handedly saving the marriage. Once I was able to give myself that permission, things changed drastically.
Nothing I did caused the marriage to fail. Was I perfect? Heck no. Not by a long shot. But I watched as she tried for a very long time to justify her decisions long after she made them. I still find stuff that indicates why I was so surprised by this. i.e. a valentine's card, or a note from her professing her undying love for me, and so on.
I own my short comings. I'll have more in the future relationships. Ok. I accept that and fully agree with it. But the real change came when I allowed myself to let go.
I haven't been in the same house with her in 10 months. The barrage is more because she has the time to focus on other things outside of her daily grind. For now. And because she wants to villify me and will use the kids to do it. I see that. It's not ok that it's happening, and it's not ok for her to treat me the way she does. But my recourse options are limited, and I'm much more concerned about getting my children what they need. Even at my expense, I'll see to it that they come out on top.
What I find is that recognition of my actions are not as important as I once thought they were. That comes later; sometimes much later. I've seen that. In other words, some of the things I thought were important, are not. I take things as they come and deal with them as needed. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Thank you DMIL. She will try to villify me. I know that. She'll try everything she can to make it my fault. She has since the beginning of all of this. When she fell through the looking glass and decided I was evil incarnate. I am not a victim any longer than I want to be. I choose not to be starting last year
I am not a victim. I could have left at any point. I find that is part of this - that I have "leave" her. I did. I am glad I did. Try it. He may have left first, but you still have to leave him DMIL. It's part of it I think.
AJ
Update:
Ok. On the advice of my lawyer and therapist, I've put in a call to the therapist that the kids were taken to. To introduce myself, to interview him, and to offer any help.
I'm happy the kids are getting somebody to talk to, but I'm not happy that I feel like the stbx is trying to villify me. I did expect it though this is a bit earlier than I expected it by a few months.
Now to the golf weekend.... See y'all next week
AJ
Just venting for a sec:
ARGGGGGHHHHHH
Ok, seriously. I'm starting to think this madness will go on indefinately. Even if I cannot spell very well.
STBX sent an email to me yesterday in response to me asking where my daughter was going to be when she was out of town. Her response? "that you wouldn't communicate with your daughter is incomprehensible to me" WTF? She all but outright accused me of being a physical abuser towards my daughter. No wait, she did. And accused me of being unstable and perhaps needing therapy. And then it's ok for my son to come over but not my daughter? WTF?
There. I feel better about it. I do realize that she is doing what she wants to do - to find a reason to help support her claim of why she left. To support a reason that she is the heroine in this story without having to have the kids - too much. Or too much responsibility. I know. I have much better perspective now than when I started.
We shall see what's next. I'll talk to the therapist tomorrow to see what he is about. I am really praying he's good.
Later,
AJ
Update:
It gets stranger. She sent another message accusing me of having a girlfriend that was hiding two streets over "in a hooded sweatshirt" and sneaking over. I don't know whether to laugh or what? That's not just untrue, it's ridiculous.
So no my antennae are up. I suspect she is gearing up to make an assault (of sorts). Does it never end? I want to be left alone by her!!!!!!!!!
So ends today's venting. Good night folks!
AJ
Update: I spoke to the kids therapist. He seems pretty confident and is not at all concerned that the kids are symptomatic of anything although he did mention that there were some things he'd like them to work on. He also mentioned having me come by at one of their sessions if they decide to continue seeing him. He is going to recommend that they do not need to come back.
I feel better about that. I really do.
Now on to the rest of the story while I get my lawyer to finish up the paperwork. Wheeee.......
AJ
Update:
Hmm... All is quieter now. But she is still uncharateristically unorganized and unable to follow printed directions (not mine - somebody else's).
But at least the emails have calmed down. I suspect she really was fishing for something. Bringing up old and untrue crazy accusations seems weak to me. Lazy almost. I'm almost diappointed in that apparent lack of effort.
Heard from my daughter today. She returne my text from two days ago telling me she really doesn't need anything for her birthday (16). No response to my question since then. I don't expect one either. But I'm watching closely.
AJ
AJ
Update: Odd. Since the weird "I've left my tinfoil hat on the couch" conversation with stbx, she has calmed down towards me. Doubtful that will last long, but I've learned to enjoy the peaks and valleys
Daughter has not responded. Not surprised, but that does hurt a bit in the short term that she missed my 40th birthday and wants me out of her 16th. Just a little - those things aren't but days on the calendar really. While milestones, they are unimportant as compared to her upbringing and eventual release on society.
Happy Easter everyone. Catch you when I can
AJ
Update: just got back from overseas trip. Loved it! Hope to get the job permanently but it was great either way.
Busy. That's how I classify my life now. I am soooooo busy these days. Will catch up more later.
STBX wrote me an email suggesting she say something to daughter about going to dinner with me. Odd but a pleasant surprise.
Catch you all later!
AJ
Journal entry:
I'm too trusting. Go figure. I slipped and trusted her again. Sheesh. You would think I would know better by now.
Que sera sera. I won't make that mistake too many more times I'm sure.
I did poke though. To keep the lawyers moving. Her lawyer is very disjointed and at first I blamed it on her. I don't think that's the case. I think it's the STBX based on some conversations with my lawyer.
STBX also tried to get my daughter to go to dinner with me. She told me she would suggest it to her because she felt that the longer it goes on the harder it will be for daughter to reconnect. BS. That was her lawyer again and possibly the therapist she took the kids to.
Good news is that the paperwork is proceeding and the kids are not found to have any serious issues. Good. I'm looking forward to relaxing this weekend and working around the house. Possibly blow that off to go hiking with friends. Should be fun this weekend.
Tonight was fun. Was having a few down moments over the past few days, but that is behind me now.
Went to the run club tonight with my son. That was fun. I'm a very outgoing and talkative person and he likes to give me grief for talking to people. I tend to talk to ladies more, but it is kind of funny to see his sense of humor.
Later gator,
AJ
Um. Wow. I'm slow. The other day her lawyer sent over a child support worksheet she filled out. I read into it that my stbx is going to try and go after custody. I think that's part of it. But it just dawned on me that her lawyer sent that over for another reason. I think she is not happy with her client and was showing her client that she had got all she was going to get unless she re-worked the numbers to show she has custody of my daughter. Things don't add up so it's a BS document (i.e. the sep agreement shows 50/50 custody but the child support shows 60/40 so that the numbers work better). I suspect the lawyer was also showing how her client is getting a good deal. I'm seeing things differently including that.
Most people that have dealt with both of us, independently don't like her or her attitude. Hmm....
Anyway, just posting.
Later!
AJ
Journaling: got some texts from the stbx the other day. Pissed me off - the tone, not the content. It was about a final bill and she was very childish about how she went about it. It was very emotional laden on her part. Was like talking to a 5th grader. Her most common answer? 'Watever'
Keep in mind this was via text.
I think I'm still concerned she might try to come back. I don't want that. I am no longer willing to make the marriage work. I know that much. I think I may be concerned because of what the therapist said a long time ago about me being done and her making up her mind sometime after that. Also because her anger feels like a connection. I don't like that. In my mind, if she wants to be gone, it hurt, sometimes still does, but I have no way to change that. It never was what I wanted until now. But I do not want any kind of connection at all. I see no reason to and I see danger and lack of boundaries if they are maintained.
That's how I feel about it anyway. Rational or not? I haven't figured that out yet.
I received a revised copy of the sep agreement to look over. Haven't had the time yet. Been having a great weekend with my son. Not ready to work yet
Later,
AJ
Journaling:
And so it continues...
Email bullying from stbx. Doesn't have to be that way, but the emotions are pretty high on her end. I feel much more dispassionate. That's been a long time coming for me and I suspect that it will continue as she gets further past her graduation (lower stress) and continues some of her changes. I feel for her boyfriend, but not very much
The term I was trying to remember before was emotional generosity. The idea is that if you are emotionally stable and happy, you have and show more emotional generosity. If you are unhappy, you have no emotional generosity to allow you to give anything to anyone.
The describes my stbx to a "T". For me, it was very painful to live through. To others it is just interesting and annoying.
The latest? I've sent the revisions to the lawyer. In the meantime, the stbx decided to show her head. Wants me to pay for my son's ortho. I told her I need to confirm later that I can to which she became very accusatory and bullying in her tone. She responded by copying the two lawyers; that's not a very good idea. But it's also a cue to me to stop talking which is why I'm venting here.
I'm annoyed by the bullying. I'm dead tired of it. I know it won't stop. So I vent here.
Later,
AJ
Journaling: Nothing to really report. Had to meet her at the bank today to cash the tax refund check. She had insisted on having the check mailed to her vs. having it deposited into our joint account. She tends to be very paranoid, but not really sure why.
Anyway, nothing to really report. Once again I'm waiting for the legal beagles to finish up their part. Her lawyer at this point. Starting to wonder what happens if we don't get a response prior to the date I can file for divorce.
Later gator,
AJ
Hmmm... starting to change or just calm before the storm...again? Can't really tell but the monster seems to be nicer the past few days. I realize part of that is that she wanted something, but I'm hoping it sticks. It's annoying to have to deal with that for this long and to still be dealing with it this close to the divorce.
Still odd that she tries to tell me about her. I really don't care, but I'm starting to think she would do that with everyone and not just me. At first I wondered if she was trying to get me to "know" something of her or to say something to her about what a pretty girl she is, or something to recognize her accomplishements. Like watching a dog that wants to be stroked for retrieving the ball. Except this is the ego of my soon to be ex. Anyway, the next check came in and it'll be time to have to see the monster soon again. Hopefully she'll leave the monster at home instead.... one can only hope.
Should hear about the new job in the next few days. That's a nice surprise. We'll still have to see about the monetary portion and all that, but looks good.
I'm excited again. Dang it.
Later,
AJ
Checked in with the lawyer today. Not sure what the hold up is, but ready to keep things moving.
Full disclosure: my running buddy yesterday mentioned that he talked with an old friend who mentioned he knew my stbx. She was trying to fix him up with her friend but it didn't work out. Then stbx starts texting this guy every week. Her MO? Yep. She did this before too with the current boyfriend.
I mention it becuase it bothered me more than I'd like to admit to even myself. I mention it becuase I have been and am right that she will and is changing as her pressure is relieved. I notice that she is going after guys that have a similar background to mine. Sometimes I feel like I'm in a parallel universe living right next to me where she is concerned...
Anyway, more fun on the job front - my coworker took the position down the street that was being used to try and lure me away. They are very much trying to drain the talent from this group. That's not a good position to be in really. Politics are thick but it's not my first rodeo....
Peace,
AJ
After checking with the lawyer, hopefully, and that's a big if, things are progressing. Her lawyer has something planned, but we'll see how that goes and hopefully put this behind me sooner than later.
AJM
Update
Great weekend. Really enjoyed getting away. Meeting lots of new people. It went way too fast!
Got a response frow the lawyer; yep, she's angling for custody alright. Go figure.
Been mean and nasty again as well. I got sucked into a text fight with her. I'm human though. It's been a while since I've been sucked into it, but it happens once in a while.
Got some good news. Met with the pastor. He checked on my son and let me know that my son doesn't blame himself for this. That's a relief. A big relief. As for my daughter...? She is still MIA. We'll see. I have a few phone calls out but it's really in her time.
Later,
AJ
I was talking to a friend I met at the beginning of this who was also going through a divorce. Her husband cheated on her four times over the years. She is still in a bit of pain, but doing much better. I recalled the story of the Chinese farmer and his take on whether things are good or bad. His response was that it was too early to tell.
It was a good reminder for me as well, as I looked back at my thoughts and where I was many months back. I may not be "there" yet, but I am oh so much closer than ever before. I like me and my life. I really do. And there isn't anything that can change that. Things may be painful or difficult, but they won't knock me down in a death spiral like before.
I was at church tonight for my son's final confirmation class. We went to a neighboring church to use a labyrinth for prayer focus. Very helpful. I still try and pray to let her go the rest of the way. It helps. I very rarely think about her during the day, except of course with regards to things in the moment.
Very relaxed. Still waiting for the job offer to come in. Shouldn't be long. Getting excited...
later,
AJ
That was odd. The ex showed a brief moment of caring about somebody other than herself first. I'm checking for Rod Serling now...
Seriously, that was a nice albeit brief change from the norm. Just had to get that out of my system for a moment...
AJ
Nice. I get to explain things to old friends that are wondering what happened...
Oh well. Still waiting to meet with the lawyer to verify the next steps. She still keeps changing things, so I'm inclined to go to court.
Later
AJ
Got a nice a@@ chewing last night from my father. He was right though. Had a great meeting with my lawyer today. She's good and we will hopefully have something done before long.
I hope. I'm tired of this junk. Want it gone.....
AJM
He told me I was not letting go completely. He told me to stop being competitive. He was right, I was doing both of those although I didn't realize it. He also told me to stop thinking that she would be a decent human being and that she wouldn't use the kids to try and hurt me. Sadly, the only people she is capable of hurting is herself and the kids at this point. I am way beyond being hurt by her as far as I can tell. I'm not foolish enough to think she is beyond trying nor that I am beyond her being able to push my buttons. Fewer to be certain, but there are still areas she can try.
Cie la vie. I can only protect myself and the kids as much as possible.
AJM
Update. Not much to report. Lawyers take a long time from what I see. Part of that is the myriad of changes over time, but still.... It's not frustrating very much any longer. It is what it is.
I have been busy and stressed lately. I've accepted a new position and it has an international component to it. Long days. I love it and my life!!!!
I looked back over some of my old posts. It's clear to me that I spent a long time worried and speculating. I don't do that very much any more and mostly come here for one or two others. Paying back so to speak. I feel that if my experience can help somebody then I want to do that. But I come here less and less and only for specific things. I like that. I like being too busy to wallow in self pity. Even more I like that in my down time I don't wallow in self pity
I realize I spent a lot of time wasted, although I acknowledge I needed to do that for myself. Time to shift gears and get to gettin' (so to speak
Later gator,
AJM
It's clear to me that I spent a long time worried and speculating. I don't do that very much any more.....
I'm still trying to give that up. I think I'm at 99 percent.
I call it "borrowing trouble". So much of what we worry about happening, either doesn't happen, or turns out to be a good thing when it does! I never, ever would have guessed that my single life would be as happy and fulfilling as it is - and I don't even have a boyfriend at the present! (although I do have a hot date for the weekend
)
Yep. What ^ said
Journal update:
Not much to report that's different. Found out my new job start date/orientation and my son's middle school graduation are at the same time. Should be interesting to figure this one out.
I was talking to a couple of different friends over the past several days. Two things *clicked* for me that I didn't see before. I didn't plan for that, but hey, better late then never, right?
One is the stbx's predatory behavior. She looks for guys she can fix while they are having issues in their own marriages. That's sick. Whatever.
The more important thing I noticed is this: I have been struggling to get away from her. Hard enough with her gone, but I noticed she seems to want me to be gone and not go far at the same time. It's weird. My pastor mentioned it to me first. My friend drove it home. She mentioned that it was a push/pull and that makes it harder. Yep. That got me thinking how to stop that cycle. I figured it out. Drop the remainder of the rope and don't let her push any buttons. Jack mentioned it elsehwere: rip out the connecting wires she is used to using so there can be no connection. Or something like that. Anyway, it brought me great peace to think I have had the key all along. No I am putting it into practice.
Since she has had some weird emails she sent. Just to "let me know" something. But if I open that door it ends in a bloody nose and it feels like controlling behavior. So, I took it as fyi and moved on.
I'm journaling this to close the loop on the advice I had received so long ago about detaching and letting go... for me. I see that now. To all that mentioned it- THANKS!!!! Wish I had "gotten" it then, but it sank in finally.
Slow but steady. That's me
Peace y'all!
AJ
Journal update:
Might be close to an agreement. Hard to say - been here before. I hope so though. I soooooo want to be done and look at this in the rearview mirror.
One more curve - she may be asking me to include her on my benefits. I just started a new job so I'm pushing to drop her from the benefits. One more thing to be done with. On the other hand, I am not trying to hurt her - just to get rid of any ties to her. We'll see. May be able to work something out where I keep her on the insurance for a little longer and have her pay me back. Same with the phone. It's not trivial to include her in the insurance financially either, but that's not the issue for me. Like I said - no big deal but it is one more tie....
AJM
Yes. Those ties. XW severed all of ours one by one and they all hurt. She stuck it to me as soon as she could on insurance. I was on hers. But then she keeps my name. I'm not sure why on that one.
She keeps your name because it's the same as the kids. I did the same.
KML, I'm not sure I get that, but it's as good a reason as any I suppose. I don't pretend to understand why she left. Or why she told me she never loved me etc. I made peace with the idea while I like a good puzzle, there are some things I won't understand.
Is what it is.
As for the benefits. I think that it really doesn't matter much. If it helps her out, that's fine. I think what bothered me more is that I can see her using that as a, "well, you owe me for <insert something here> and it equals what you pay for the benefits." I really don't want to get into that game. The money is inconsequential. Always has been.
I realize through this that I have the key. I can leave whenever I want. I knew that all along. And I want to leave. My latest realization was how she tries to keep me connected with the push pull. Looking back, I see that's been going on for a long time but wanting divorce is a big giant push. Again, is what it is. I can't figure it out and I gave up trying for Lent. In 2010
I choose to not talk to her because she is abusive. The less I talk to her the more she finds a reason to try and contact (control?) me. I do not want that. She wants to leave? Fine. I have to deal with that. She wants to remain in my life? Nope. No more than absolutely necessary. She is welcome to deal with her issues with the new boyfriend, by herself, or however she chooses. I have no say in any of this other than to heal myself. To do that, I have to stop the push pull that she has been trying to incorporate. I see that. I've been told that all along, but I truly see that clearly now. There is no other way to be finished and more importantly healed.
Almost to the next step. I can file in two weeks and will hopefully have a sep agreement prior to that. Been a long road, but the next part is about to begin and I am looking forward to that. Never thought I'd say that, but I still, to this day have nothing left to give. I'm tapped out. I can afford grace and dignity, but that's about it.
Enough. I started a new job and I'm swamped. I really like it though
AJ
I'm sad tonight. My daughter still doesn't want to have contact with me. I still suspect it's the strain coupled with her desire to "mother" her mom. I'm torn because while it makes me sad, it is not clear to me that it would be in my daughter's best interest to force anything. I think it is not.
I read this article a little while back and it resonates with me. Comments?
http://library.adoption.com/articles/alienation-and-alignment-of-children.html
Update:
There isn't much of an update really. I have decided to send the birthday present and a note to my daughter. And then to back way off. Won't be easy for me, but it seems the right thing to do.
Later,
AJ
i'm sure she'll appreciate it down the road.
how have you been doing otherwise? how's the d proceeding?
still reading along ..
I appreciate you following along. The D? I don't know..waiting for the lawyers to hash things out. Hers is threatening court, mine is saying we're close to a deal. Blah. I don't really care to be honest. I'm interested in my kids and would prefer to have the paperwork off my plate. Otherwise it really makes no difference.
I'm doing pretty well, but it is wearing on me. I'm guessing it's because of the finality. I didn't want to think it would hit me like that, but seems to be. Somehow, I'm normal...
Thanks for the feedback.
AJ
I think being in limbo is the worst. My limbo lasted about a year and a half. I was always afraid that I was doing the wrong thing. I wish I had found this site prior to his filing but it is what it is.
Everything happens for a reason. We are only allowed to see part of the picture at a time. Life does continue to get better.
kat
My D process took two years and two months, mostly because she had a cheapo lawyer and I didn't push anything. I hoped in vain it was all just a phase.
Looking back, perhaps it would have been better to just rip the band-aid off. But I wasn't ready for it to be over and my daughters weren't either. They would be fine with mommy and daddy being married but not living together. It took me a while.
Even with the time, the first few days after were rough. Old emotions I thought I'd worked through cycled back.
Yep, I'm seeing those old emotions coming back to haunt like old ghosts I thought I had exorcised.
I got the news today that she'll sign the latest iteration of the sep agrement and send that over with the lawsuit. Meanwhile, she is just as mean and hateful. Ojbectively, that seems about right. But the feelings are wandering. I feel like between that and the rest of my vida loca, I'm stressed out. But I see light and even if an oncoming train it'll be over soon
It's not an oncoming train though. It's freedom from the legal portion. The emotional prison is something I hold the key to. Now where did I put those keys....? LOL.
Thanks!
At some point, I'd really like to see the emotional roller coaster come to an end. Ya know?
I've noticed that I've been withdrawing lately. To be honest, I'm crushed at work, my grandparents failing health I'm dealing with, my daughter, and...oh yeah, my divorce is about to go through.
I had hoped to have been more done with the feelings toward stbx, but it seems not quite. Or at least the old stbx. Not the monster I interact with infrequently now. Under protest.
Part of me wants to sail away. Part of me wants to party like a rock start. And part of me wants to smile myself to sleep knowing that I'm almost done with at least part of the things on my plate clamoring for attention. I know this set of feelings though. Fight or flight. I've had them before and I'm ready to face them. Just that I originally thought I had been done facing them so a bit of a surprise.
Now. Enough of that. I have a party to throw. People will be here shortly so I should at least comb my hair
Later!
AJ
Have a good party. The work thing? I relate. I was really surprised at how I couldn't focus as work. I'm still not all of the way back.
Does it seem negative, after all of the effort and love, to feel like I'm free of the monster she became?
I was served with the divorce papers today. I have the sep agreement.
After everything else, I feel...free. Free of the monster she became. Would I want the old her back? Hmm... I don't think so. I prefer to have the memories I think. They were good memories up to the end.
Would I do it all again? Absolutely. Would I do it again with her? Nope. No thanks. There is no going back and I really don't want to. I am just dealing the feelings of guilt that I'm happy she's gone. They aren't strong feelings, just a little pang because I know it wasn't something I did or did not do. I can look with total honesty and know it was nothing to do with me (mostly - nobody's perfect.) I know I did everything I could have done and held nothing back. Very peaceful to know that.
Still, just a little numb at the moment. Some feelings coming back, but not very strong. To tell the truth I'm more interested in what tomorrow brings and some other things I have in my life that need attention.
Peace,
AJ
I had a lot of moments I felt free. I remember XW calling me up and demanding that I stay home from work the next day because one of the daughters was sick.
I told her she could ask, but she couldn't demand.
When she hung up I just smiled because I didn't have to put up with her moods and putting her job above everyone else.
But there will be lots of moments where you pine for ... something that died long ago.
I still struggle with it. Marriage done, finally, six weeks ago.
part of me says .. sorry to hear you got served with d papers. but i'm happy that you are free.
i liken this to being on death row. none of us deserve to be here but we are. one by one, we get called in and something is severed off.
you will walk away with a piece of you missing.
((AJM))
my guess is .. i'm next to be called in.
I guess the question is this then, "is what gets severed off something we cannot do without? Or is it like a cancer and needs to be gone?"
Really, it matters not. We are headed in regardless. I don't feel bad about that. That seems strange to me. I feel at peace. Not happy she's gone or what's happened to the kids, but at peace. Calm. If a little on the overwhelmed side....
AJ
You might be surprised what grows in its place
(Just back from a week-long tour playing percussion for a professional music friend - a hobby I took up after the divorce - and waiting for my date to arrive - a very tall, handsome man I met a few weeks ago, who thinks I am gorgeous just as I am
Life is good!!!)
True KML. It has occurred to me that you can't fill a glass that is already full; you have to empty it first
Annoying that it wasn't what I wanted at the time, surprising that it is now, and seems to be the way it needs to be.
Peace,
AJ
Journal entry:
Not surprised, but the stbx (really a done deal, but not signed by the judge yet) was going to pick s13 up from church today. She didn't show. He suddenly recalls that his mom rescheduled the trip. I was notified earlier in the week, so not a long time ago. She never told me. The part that gets me is that I was going to leave him there for her to pick him up. I also realize it is a poke to the eye to not care about my time in that way. Got it.
Otherwise, life is good to great depending on the day
AJ
Journal Entry:
stbx texted yesterday that she wanted to take the kids to the therapist tonight. Fine with me. Seems odd that she wanted to "fit" them in, and that my son was going as well.
At least she picked them up like she said she would
I'm bone tired. Been a rough day today. Started with a phone call this morning and hasn't stopped since and won't before 11pm est. But I love it
AJ
Journal Entry:
Things are humming along. Been sick the past few days; not a lot of fun, but I'll live.
A little down today. My guess is it is just the aftermath of the last few weeks events and being overly tired.
I was thinking about stbx (just waiting for the judge to sign off) and I hate that it consume my time like that. I know why it is; she keeps texting me and sending email. The last week has been quiet though, and I like that more than I'd like to admit. Why? Because of my sense of comittment and a feeling that things aren't as done as I'd like. My guess is that she'll continue to harass for a while. I rarely respond and it seems to help.
My daughter sent me an email the other day. Last Sunday. In the email, I saw many things. Some of them her mothers feelings and words. I suppose that ex is going to try to hurt via the kids then. And that my daughter is the one picking up the fight. I hate that she is going through this, but realize I cannot stop that. I can only support my daughter in a loving and firm way (firm because I have to be a parent and cannot let her abuse; she's 16 so some of that is expected).
Later,
AJ
Hmm. Seems an ah-ha moment is going to come when it is darn good and ready.
It occurred to me, now that both daughter and ex are signing the same song about me being alone, that it is possible that ex wants me to have a girlfriend so she can feel less guilty.
Odd. Why is that important I wonder. Anyway, no worries about that. If anything, I'm more inclined to be alone so I can feel my own feelings without any interruptions. It gets busy sometimes
AJ
I saw a joke on here once about the XHubby getting a hot younger girlfriend and couldn't wait to see the XW to make her jealous. The XW though wasn't jealous. She was happy so perhaps the XH would stop obsessing about her.
It was written in a funnier way than I described.
Back in '09, pre-split, XW said the "one thing" that will hurt is if I do find someone younger, who likes to do outdoor, physical activities.
I think my XW really wants me to find someone to prove she was right, we weren't made for each other.
Of course, XW now is on Match and is messaging a couple of guys. It'll be interesting how she reacts to being out there again.
Thanks CTH. I get the gist. I think the real heart of this board is getting to the point where it matters not what the X says or thinks. That is why it bothered me that the thought came into my head. To understand at this point is silly but it is what it is, right?
The funny thing is that it nags at me. It's RIDICULUOUS!!!! and nuttier than squirrel s**t (to re-use a phrase seen elsewhere). It's like saying, "I don't want you, but I want to feel like I didn't leave you hopeless, so here...." What's also odd is that as I write that, I've realized I've seen that pattern from her many times. She tried it with the other guys while I thought we were still working things out. Even the current boyfriend she tried to pawn off on a friend. But she wanted me to be ok and have somebody else. Oh, and she hated me and wants me to be alone. At the same time.
Anyway, it's just odd. Just journaling and now letting it slide away. Thanks for the feedback.
later,
AJ
Journal. Funny, several friends over the last few days have asked me about things. For the first time in a while several have started trying to hook me up with ladies they know. From a feedback perspective, that's kind of nice as it reflects what they see. They also mention that I sound very done. I am, but it's interesting that they mention it outwardly unprompted. I guess I just notice things.
Just journaling.
Journal:
Huh. Seems some of the feelings are still there. Thought I was past much more of this. I'm a wreck some days lately. That's partly from the stress, but partly that my mind is making some connections that before I hadn't made. I still don't think like that, so it's not natural to get these stray connections.
It occurred to me that she was using me for the anger. Ok. Break that connection. Check.
I occurred to me that she wants me to date so she doesn't feel bad about what she's done. Makes things "even" so to speak. That's a thought I had and I have learned to go with many of those thoughts; I've been right more than wrong. The thing is, I'll do what's right for me. Regardless. It doesn't change my feelings. It does however explain some things which brings a sort of peace in a weird way.
Anyhow, just journaling. My son came over today after his beach trip. Very nice to see him and hang out. We watched blazing saddles
Later,
AJ
Journaling: My feelings feel like they have been through the meat grinder. But I feel much better, if not a bit detached.
I think it sunk in that ex did what she knows how to do. I don't fault her for it in so much as she did what she did. I don't agree nor do I like what she did/does, but that's different.
Feeling good.
AJ
Journaling: Hmm... I was at a party last night. Some friends pointed out how odd it was that I had a picture given by my ex (years ago) of her. I was talking about how I threw it out, but it seems, looking back, a bit odd.
Funny, connections are starting to come again. I didn't expect that...
Great party though. Some really fun people. Lots of laughter and good food. Chaos cooking - French. I slept like a log..
AJ
Hi AJM!
We all go through our own cycle. I see you as a VERY STRONG individual who is alot farther than me in your progress.
When i loose myself in the drama, i reread the articles in this site:
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions.html I am no longer a stander but i am NOT A LOOSER.
I came to realize that NC is in fact a blessing to me. It gives me a chance to get my strenght back and put my head back where it belongs. The man i fell in love with is no longer. I get glimpse of him but that is not enough for me. He will never return, he will be changed forever. He will not be the love of my life even if he comes back home. I am coming to term with that.
I, like you, wish him peace and happiness but without me.
I am responsible for my own peace and happiness and keeping ties with his drama is interfering.
I read your entire post and i like your journaling.
We, the LBS seem to follow a script just like the MLC but, believe it or not, ours sounds healthier. Our SANITY is the key to get through this.
You're doing great. Keep posting, i'll keep reading.
God bless...
P.S: As for your daughter, don't give her to much power and freedom of choice because she might see it as a "you don't give a sh*t about her". Be consistent with your attempt to contact her.
You are the adult and she wants to be one. (teenager).
Show her how adult really show their love and affection with RESPECT. Find her point of interest and get involve with her.
Do an activity and give her the opportunity to bring a friend along.( That is priceless because you get to listen in and ,it gives you insight on how they see things.)
She needs to know that what happened beetwin you and your wife will NOT change the love that you have for her and your son.BTW, she might have a bit of jaleousy towards her brother's relationship with you. You seem very close to him. Try to get her involve. ALWAYS invite her to come along. VERY IMPORTANT!!
My XH always assumed that my D15 wouldn't be interested in going with them. Never invited her to go, wich in her mind became, "he doesn't want me." NOT TRUE!
She will refuse often but i swear, one day, she will say "YES",and the feeling you will get that day will be PRICELESS.
Don't give up on her. You are an amazing father. Don't let a silly divorce take that away from you. It can"t. You will always be their father and YOUR LOVE will never stop growing. They need to KNOW AND FEEL that love.
Keep on rocking....
Thanks EQ. I do think about my daughter all the time. I do make it very clear that I want her in my life and that I love her. I don't invite her places. I promised I wasn't going to talk to her except birthdays and holidays. Talking with several mental health pros and reading up on things, this course of action was decided (by me) to give her time to figure things out. Her last email to me was scary in the sense that it conveyed some of her emotions but also her mother's. Clearly. There was no doubt when I read it and some of those pros read it. She needs to figure out how to be independent of her mother and I don't interfere. I simply and succinctly tell her I love her and miss her and for now leave it at that.
There are several schools of thought about how to approach the situation. Some believe I should force her to come home (I could). Others think not. I tend to believe the latter based on what I see and understand.
Thanks for your thoughts. I know it will work itself out over time with my daughter. My ex... not possible and I won't let it be. That is history and will stay that way because I am not willing to let that be anything else. That's part of what my daughter is upset about, ironically.
Later,
AJ
You've been doing very well in handleing things so far and you know what's best for you and your family.
I also know everything will work itself out at the end.
Good luck and take care!
Nothing to really report. Got the divorce date today. A friend mentioned it will be a good thing. Like the period at the end of the sentence. Know what? She's right? I'll be able to close that chapter now.
I'm looking forward to what's next
AJ
Journaling:
Still nothing to really report. Just a thought that struck me today for some reason. I'm not really sure I ever really wanted her back. I know I've had this thought before, but been angry lately. I wonder if that's anger at myself really? Just thinking out loud.
I feel like I've wasted a lot of energy on somebody who lied to and about me. Is that a big deal? Not really. But pile it all up with the whole picture of "why" and I'm a bit angry. As I mentioned above, I am starting to wonder if I am angry at me... for taking that time for something I'm not even sure I wanted after I became aware of the whole thing. I've felt guilty about some of that before, but tell the truth, I don't trust her and there is no "relationship" to be had. I let her use me as a participant when she was using me to fuel her anger - both before and after she left. I put a stop to that, but I feel like I've wasted so much time with that in the past. I'm tired of thinking about the whole thing. Seriously.
Everything else is great! Love my job, even with the stress and hours. Love my kids, even though my daughter won't talk to me right now. Things are really going well all in all.
For some reason (likely the finality of the divorce if I had to wager a guess) I'm making more connections. Feels like lurching into reality.
Acceptance? Thought I had done that, but maybe this is more final...
Anyway, nice weekend with son planned at the beach. Looking forward to it.
AJ
You are riding the waves.
Yeah, I think so. Not as much fun as being at the beach, but I suspect you are correct
AJ
Journal: another great weekend with the church group! Really relaxing.
ex sent me a bill for daughter's psych visits. 4 times in the last month? That's really ratcheting up the frequency... hmm..
Also got an email from ex regarding S's doctor appt. She was letting me know he has an appt in the afternoon (she didn't tell me before) and letting me know that I should take him if he comes back from the morning appt I have for him. I read that she was really just letting me know she wasn't happy I didn't tell her about his doctor appt.
I deleted the message. I'm tired of her trying to stay in my life in a controlling way. I tell her things when needed, but otherwise just stay quiet. I'm not willing to be her punching bag. Period. I will let her know things she needs to know if and when they come up, but honestly I feel much better when I don't have any contact with her. <sigh> Does it ever end? (I know the answer, just venting
)
AJ
Journal: funny. As I'm getting a week away from the divorce finalization, I'm fiding that I'm not as wound up about it as I was before. What I mean by that is that although it is sad, I'm not as sad as I would have thought. Part of me is actually glad which I feel a little guilty about.
Originally, I thought I wouldn't want the house or the posessions. I was wrong about that. I originally thought when the divorce came I would inject some humor and have a party. My thought as a New Orleans style wake commemerating the death of the relationship.
I have no desire for that now. I don't plan on doing anything different that day. I'm still in a mode where I want a break from it all. But I'm also looking forward to my emancipation (so to speak; I still have my humor
)
I'm looking forward to so much right now, it's hard to really quantify it all. I am very thankful for the time with ex, but really enjoying my life without her and looking forward to so many more things. I'm looking forward to time with my son, my friends, and meeting new people. I'm looking forward to the confirmation class I'll be helping teach and looking forward to visiting my family back in California before the end of the year.
Strikes me as odd considering how I felt this time last year. But I have to admit, I like it
Later,
AJ
Journal: seem to be up and down about this. Mostly up, but the familiar up and down has returned. Not as sharp of ups and downs, but here just the same. Long rolling ups and downs is a better way to put it. And not too much down. Most of me sees this as very good.
Yesterday, my son left his stuff at the house and as we were leaving for school he asks if he can stop by his mom's to drop it off. I had to say no because I had to be at work early. I told him his mother could take him to the house or his sister could. He didn't want to because his mother gives him grief for it. I told him I would make sure that he got his bag even if later at night.
Yesterday at work was not fun. RIF's. I'm a manager "just" in time apparently :>) I knew it was coming and had to be at work early for that.
Anyway, I did get angry at the way she treats him. I see her as shifting the anger at me towards him in as if she is punishing him for staying with me. Similar to what I saw her do to my daughter.
When I dropped off the bag last night, the boyfriend's car was there. The one she left for.
Let's face it, I am a bit angry
but still have mixed emotions. I'm not unhappy she's gone. I'm not worried that it's somebody else she left for. I'm angry that she treats the kids this way, but I've come to expect it so no longer disappointed. I'm not upset at how she treats me any longer - I expect that as well. I've come to realize and accept that it is not me she is angry with. It is not me she left. It was not my choice and it was really very little to do with me. I get that.
But there is a bit of anger still in there. Not sure exactly where that completely comes from, but notice it is getting in my way of contentment.
I find myself clearing the decks and going from generally very happy to sometimes a little angry. Mostly happy and more or less content.
I hate what she is and has been doing to the kids though. That she could be this type of person, is sad.
Looking at my autosig, it's been almost 2 years since I agreed to not fight her about getting a divorce. Wow. Time flies...
Anyhow, just writing this helps. I feel much better getting that off my chest.
I do honestly wish her the best. I wish her peace and happiness. And I wish she would leave me alone
Later,
AJ
Journal addendum: I almost forgot. I was venting a little and realized something. For the longest time during the craziest bits, I was thinking I was struggling for perspective. My friend I was venting to (I was drinking a few hops and barley soups), mentioned that my planning didn't take into account a psycho ex.
He went on to mention that it was easier for others to see than it was for me because I was too close. That's true. It's one reason I vent and come here. Perspective.
Journal: the pastor today spoke on forgiveness. He spoke of it because of 9/11. But I felt like he was pointing a finger right at me! Weird. But I do know I've struggled with forgiveness for quite sometime. I felt so much more relieved after thinking about this. I'm not the only one that struggles an the message was poignant: how many times must I forgive?
The answer of course, is every time.
Easy preaching, difficult living but well worth the journey I can tell.
AJ
I believe the number in the Bible is 7 times 70. But I'm not sure,I got my info from a Veggies Tale video.
Ok. I'm not sure if that should make me laugh or not.
The number is not important in the sense that it is used to refer to "a lot" or "infinite" amount of times.
I like Veggie Tales though
Tough to do for sure, but I am finding it a good way to go. To know that I am not the first to have to face this type of issue. It's a test of sorts. I see it as a personal challenge....
What is tough sometimes is to help differentiate between forgiveness and boundaries. i.e. I forgive you for what you've done to me. Each and ever time I distinctly remember forgiving you for things I very much remember forgetting. But I will not let you continue to do them to me.
For me that means silence. It means not letting her use me for her fuel for anger. Not as a "real" participant at any rate.
Thanks for stopping by...
AJ
Journal: I'm sick of nutty people
Ex. I decided to respond to an email. No good deed goes unpunished sometimes... I texted a reply to an email that really should not have been sent in the first place regarding a bill. She had no need to ask when to expect the money, since that's spelled out in the agreement. I sent the text letting her know it would be there next week. Her response? Thx. I prefer to get an email.
Really? NOW you want email vs. text? My how things have changed.
I am not responding, but it's silly. I blame it on the full moon. Why? Because it seems every time there is one she gets nuttier, if that's possible. She has no need to contact. At all. I texted her the results of s's doctor appt a little while back. Response wasn't needed, but she replied like a human and said thx.
I suspect I'm a little angry (can you tell?) and annoyed.
Recently, I ended a R with a gf. She was great, but I realized I needed some space. I wasn't treating her well for a while, and didn't like that about me. It's not her, it's me. I need to finish some things up. GF was and is great. Giving me space and very graciously I might add.
I'm noticing that I care about things less and less. I've been unplugging again for the past few months - partly because of the new job being stressful and partly so I can clear the decks if that makes sense. I really need to clear the decks and square things away.
I didn't ask for this journey, but I really do enjoy what life has to bring. I'm sad about GF but also not as sad as I'd like to be about such things. I miss her, but can't do both - focus on the things I need to do for me and meet her needs right now. It's sad because she's great and I'm angry becuase of the situation. I know I have some anger still towards ex. I was even finding myself confusing some of that anger towards gf and I knew that was VERY wrong. Needed to get away and clear the decks.
At church tonight with the youth group. Good times mostly. Found out that one kid's dad (a friend of mine) found the neighbor kid after killing himself. I really feel for him and the family. A 14 yr old kid that killed himself! Tragic. Senseless.
The rest of my day was really uneventful, but good. Lots to deal with but all in due time...
AJ
ajm,
still following along.
sorry to hear about the r ending with the gf. but i think you did the right thing.
i can sense the anger in your posts in regards to xw. so now that we know the anger is still there and it's impacting your new relationships, what are you going to do about it?
i don't know if i ever asked but are you seeing an ic?
hang in there buddy ..
cheers,
D4MIL.
Thanks D. I was seeing one and still talk to the pastor etc. I'm not sure that an IC is needed right now, vs. time. I am closing things down, but I'm seeing light at the end of the tunnel as well. I think it's the finality of it really. It is final for me. The period at the end of a long sentence so to speak. (humor)
If it doesn't change in short order however, I will go see the IC again. Thanks for that.
AJ
AJM
I wanted to stop by to show YOU my support.
Thx. I prefer to get an email.
You know the drill, she knows what buttons to push and she will continue to push them. Remove the button and in come FREEDOM.
I suspect I'm a little angry (can you tell?) and annoyed.
I know this feeling well...feel it for a second (and I mean a second) then let it go. Now...repeat after me "she is an alien, she is an alien"....:)
I need to finish some things up.
Do you know what these things are?
I'm noticing that I care about things less and less.
Could be signs of depression...be careful dude, do not let yourself get to far down that pit before you do something about it.
Lots to deal with but all in due time
step by step. Write down some goals but make them realistic and give yourself time. This way you are knocking some of this chit off the list, which will help you to realize that you are making progress.
My divorce was final on Wednesday of last week. The finality although sad was a relief for me and I hope and pray that you finally get to that place where you can breath and just live for YOU.
Oh...before I forget, I am not sure where you live but if you are experiencing a level of blah...maybe it could be because of the weather change.
Chin up...and sorry about the GF.
God Bless,
Eric
If it doesn't change in short order however, I will go see the IC again. Thanks for that.
just have to make sure you recognize that and not to let it go on for too long.
during my m, i let a lot of things go .. majority of them were minor. but looking back, all those minor things accumulated into one huge mountain of resentment building blocks.
when you deal with them at the time, it all seems small .. but over time they build up inside, and then they manifest itself in the form of outbursts towards the wrong person (ie. the gf you just ended it with). it's good that you recognized that it was really the anger towards your xw but to allow it to affect your relationships mean that you still need to work through it before you can be in another relationship.
i have a lot of issues with trust now. and it gets in the way of taking relationships a step further. the trust issues were due to the many minor issues that i put aside in order not to rock the boat during my m. instead of facing them head on, i allowed them to fester and rot in me.
you seem like a man who has a lot to offer to the right woman. don't let the anger cloud the goodness from shining through.
cheers,
D4MIL
D and Eric, thank you both!
That is exactly what I think is going on here. I think I'm shutting down to deal with the things I need to deal with. Do I know exactly what they are yet? No. Academically I know lots of things are what they are. My heart feels otherwise and bringing those into alignment is what I'm focusing on more and more.
Eric, you're right. Caring about less and less could be depression. Could also be that I'm overwhelmed right now. I'm working on clearing the decks to see what that is, but I am not my normal jovial self and have not been the last few months. Part new job and part stress of the divorce.
Academically: stress is self induced (really. If you let something bother you, stress is caused. If you do not, it does not. I do know that from past experience)
I suspect understanding AND accepting don't have to come at the same time, right?
Working on it. I think that clearing the decks is part of learning who I am exactly. Without a pretty, wonderful woman on my arm. I am really not sure who that person is right at the moment, but I do know I am not the person I once was. I am not the husband, father, brother, son, etc. I am the father, son, brother and neighbor still. But the friends and the dating are what I'm pulling away from right now. Re-evaluating and looking for that exploring attitude again.
One of the things that gnawed at me was the wondering if I was going to hurt GF. I don't regret the time with her, but I am sorry I hurt her. Very much so.
Looking at that, I think it best to stay away from romantic relationships for a while. I want to finish the re-evaluating of me. I want to enjoy things. When I have enough to share, I'll consider a relationship again I think.
Hope that doesn't take too long, but I'll keep an eye on the mood.
I appreciate the feedback! Really means a lot to me.
AJ
Journal: just to finish the thoughts from earlier.
I suspect I've been looking again at "why" when in fact I should be looking at what is. Must be tired...
Thanks folks!
AJ
Journal: I suspected this would happen. Today is the finalization of the divorce. I had to send a note to ex regarding S medication dosage. She twice now has indicated she prefers email. That's new, but I'm not interested in what she prefers to be honest - more about what works for me.
That text turned into an email. She accused me of being mean and nasty towards her. Really? She lamented that I don't communicate with her. Duh.
I responded. Know what? She is just trying to make it all my fault. Sounded like she is angry that I am not communicating with her. I told her I could, but what would we talk about?? I added a few things because I wasn't willing to have her make baseless accusations, so I refuted them.
I knew with the D today she was itching to "talk" to me. I translate that into her wanting to argue and blame. It is what she has been doing for a very long time.
I didn't say anything new really. I don't feel good about talking to her or getting sucked into the drama. But I don't feel bad about it either. Was just honest. Stuck to the facts and how that makes me feel.
With that, I'm out for the night. Was going to the beach to hang with friends, but had to work late. I'll readjust plans in this winter wonderland....
I feel at peace today. I was listening to a pastor on the radio talking about accepting what God puts in our lives. It hit home with me. Today at least I am all about acceptance. Tomorrow I'll remind myself of that
AJ
Journal: Just to get some things off my chest, I was reflecting.
Ex sent me an email yesterday accusing me of things. Something that used to bother me is, why if she wants to leave won't she go? I mean, why hang on at all? Bizarre to me.
-Ex did a lot of things to ensure the relationship was dead. I wondered if we got married too young once. I was told that she was going to go through the changes she is or has gone through regardless if we married at 20 or at 30. So it wouldn't have mattered. I accept that.
-I loved her deeply. I think she loved me too. But that's over now. She made sure to kill what she could. What I allowed her to kill of our relationship.
-She was leaving for years. My reaction to that wasn't something I'm proud of, but I do know I did the best I could with the information I had.
-She still accuses me of crazy and weird behavior. I accept that she will continue to do that for reasons I cannot even guess.
-She decided she had to be "a little bit selfish"; we differ on what the term "a little bit" means, but that too is irrelevant.
-She left saying it was "the best thing for her". I hope it was and continues to be.
-She felt like we would always be friends. Really? How's that work? I can't see that. Perhaps I'm not wired in a way that allows me to friends that lie to me and then have EA's or friends that are incredibly selfish and blame me for things...
-She created an image of me in her head. When the image didn't fit, she made things up to "help" the story. I watched in horror and some fascination while she did this many times.
-She told me she never loved me. She also told me that love wasn't enough.
-She told me I don't know her. That she is different.
-She still wants to "communicate" but is "only classy towards me" (i.e. abusive and angry).
-If things aren't the way she envisioned them, she is the only person in the room that's right. (queue the song, Little Miss Can't be Wrong?)
-I have tried to show compassion and as much understanding for somebody I don't know that actively pushes me away. I continue to do that when the occasion calls.
-I am not bitter(any longer). I am not unhappy that the monster is gone. What I have done and continue to do is fight for my kids and fight for perspective. I'm better at it now than I was before.
-I cherish the happy memories of what was.
-I realize I was lied to for a long time. This wasn't overnight. I was lied to by her, masterfully.
-I was lied to by myself for not confronting it.
I don't for a second think I had enough information to think otherwise, but I was noticing things that weren't right for a lot longer than the bomb.
I realize my daughter is in danger of taking on her mother's thoughts and feelings. I saw it in the email. Her mother didn't deal with them very well, but that's just my opinion. My daughter has to learn to make her own way. I took care of and raised her for much of her life and trust she will make good decisions as time goes on. (By "good" I mean good for her, not necessarily contacting me.) Especially when W checked out to be "a little bit selfish".
-W picked something other than our marriage and family. I accept that. I don't always like that choice, but I accept that.
-I do not accept that she feels we should be able to talk.
-I do not accept the anger and the lack of compassion on her part.
-I do not accept her opinion in most cases partly because I don't trust her; she ensured that would be the case with the poison she killed the marriage and our relationship with.
-I do apologize when I am wrong. I expect the same. I expect that a friendship is a two way street. Some people are unable to do that, and I may be one of those when it comes to Ex. Too much damage.
-I learned that backing away and detaching quickly is important both to the mental well being of all involved and also to the relationship if it is to make a comeback. But it takes two
I know I did what I could with the information I had available. I know I have grown far beyond that now. I know that sometimes God answers prayers in ways we can't understand but that His plan is perfect. We get asked to carry burdens that we don't understand. But we get asked to carry them and if we are His, we carry them and we are happy to do it. I am happy about doing it even though I cannot see why or how this gets worked to His glory. I know that it will regardless.
Not talking to her is painful sometimes. But it is less pain than talking to somebody I deeply cared for and realistically still do. I love her differently and at a safe distance to be sure, but I care that she is ok. That she is healthy both mentally and physically. That she has enough in her life. And honestly I'm saddened it will be with somebody else. But that too I accept.
This wasn't what I wanted. But it is what has happened and it is reality. To be honest, I struggled with the guilt of letting go. I don't any longer. There is and has been no choice. I accept that and I actively let her go because it is what she asked for and it is the reality of the situation.
I could do without the accusations and the manipulations. I could do with her just being cold and professional in the interactions and letting me go. This was her goal all along, except for the part where she seems to want to stay in touch or to tell me I'm wrong or mean or nasty or.... I know now we won't be old friends. I was told that a long time ago, but I know it for fact now. It won't be possible because I won't let her in for a very long time. By the time she may be past much of this, I won't be anywhere around her and I expect I'll have buried my feelings for her so deep that they'll never be found. Or they'll be dead from lack of care by then. She will, for all intents and purposes be a stranger on the street that is long gone. She will remind me of somebody I once loved and cared for very deeply, but somebody way back in my history.
-I once told her to give me a chance to know the "new" her after she told me I didn't know her. She refused. Vehemently really. I accept that and no longer want to know the new her. I do not want to spend that effort because I feel I have spent enough of my energy and time on her.
-I learned to not try and fix people. That was a good one to learn let me tell you! I tried to help her (look way back in my thread to see my three goals for reference) because I felt responsible for her well being. I took on that responsibility when I married her and we became one. We were very connected and very close for a very long time. But I am no longer responsibile for her well being. I gave her back...
In any case, mine is not to wonder why. Mine is to accept that which is and to let go that which causes me pain. That which is not enhancing to my life. That which is not necessary to my children.
I still make sure that my son is respectful of his mother. Of her time and feelings. He deserves that and so does she. She is the mother and I'm sure in her own way she loves the kids.
I would do the same with my daughter, but that's for a time in the future.
Then there's me. I realized I have not fully accepted everything. I am working on that. I have been clearing the decks so I could think and work on me. It's been working. I have made leaps and bounds in the past several weeks. I'm sure there's more.
I realize that I should not carry the torch for her. I tried. That was folly and time wasted. She wanted out and I didn't. I spent a lot of time and energy working on that. I have since shifted that time to me and the kids. I have also put more into my career. I have put more into my walk with God. I will continue those things. They bring me satisfaction and happiness. They bring me peace. They ignite the light within me.
I recognize that she will continue to be critical and will continue to try and have input. I do not know her goals in this, but I will continue to delete the emails and texts. we can talk business, but there will be very little of that until D goes to college.
I expect there to be a confrontational email about D. She does that now and will likely continue to send them in that tone. Email is difficult to convey tone, but in her case the words she chooses are usually inciteful and the tone and approach are likewise.
Acceptance and respect. Those are two things I do for me. I have no regrets. I have nothing I would do differently. Nothing. I did what I could with the information I had. With the tools I had. What I didn't do was to accept the reality completely. It has been a stone around my neck while I try to swim.
I know more now and I have more tools now. The next relationship is bound to be a great one, but it seems to be that I can wait. Wait for what? Glad you asked
I'll wait until I have fully accepted and no longer feel the need to get stuff like this off my chest. My guess is that will take time. It will take time to finalize my acceptance. I know it took a long time to get here and was made more difficult by her trying to push and pull at the same time. I know how to deal with that now to enforce my boundaries. They keep getting tested and there are new ones sometimes, but I don't get worn out by them and lose sleep by them any longer. Sometimes I do have to get the thoughts off my chest, but friends are great for that too.
I'll be back from time to time to check on others and hopefully share at least what I've learned. But as I close the book on my history with W, and while I wish her well, I need time for me to focus on that wonderment that I feel towards life. I love to explore and I need to find that enjoyment I used to have at it. It's there, but it needs some nurturing and more of my time and energy.
I leave you with this. We are never asked to carry more than we can. We are asked to carry it with joy in our hearts that we were asked to carry it. I feel that joy coming back and I missed it. I'm tired of fighting what is vs. what I wanted. I'm tired of fighting what I'm asked by Him to do. It causes me much grief and pain and I have been learning that is not the right approach. So, time to explore what that really means....
Peace to you and yours!
I'm out (for a while)
AJ
Good for you AJ !!!
I wish you inner peace! Take care...!
Thinking of you!
Hope everything is better than O.K.!
Looking forward to your update!
Update.
I feel a lot more peace and contentment. I'm working on me. I am getting that hunger back slowwwwwwwly.
Generally, things are really good. Job is falling into line. Getting better as time goes on.
Grandparents are aging. Working with my sister to get them squared away and I'll likely be taking a trip to Cali shortly to do some more and to see them and family.
Son and I are doing well. We're about to leave for the state fair. I'm looking for the fried bubble gum this year
I still get angry sometimes but not very much. I accept what happened but still don't like it. Not sure I will though..
My Daughter still doesn't talk to me, but it is what is. She's asserting her control in the way she knows how. I cleaned out her room the other day (finally) and ran across an old journal of hers. Broke my heart as it was around the bomb time frame. I didn't read much, but it was enough to get the idea. I try not to pry right?
Ex is a bit angry (shocker!) She seems upset I won't talk on the phone with her. I told her I could talk to her (I can) but can't think what we would talk about or why I would talk to her. She made me her enemy and dates OM. Wish her luck, but can't think why I would talk to her with the anger and such. She made me her enemy (not sure why) but wants what she wants I guess.
She sends me emails to collect money for the kids activities. In them, she asks if I'm going to "contribute" to the fees and such. That grates. The emails are about three times a week since the divorce. Kind of annoying, but has to be done.
In the last one I responded that I'd love to share the expense she was asking about. Not sure she'll get the hint, but whatever. Needs to be done.
Outside of that, I'm recovering from a sports injury. Not much fun, but almost done with that thankfully.
Rest of the year is looking good. Almost paid off the debts on all but one card. Counsellor is paid as of next week. House is refinanced into my name. Storage is almost empty (weird that ex left her childhood skis in there along with family photos after she cleaned it out.) So generally, I'm finishing the aftermath cleanup and moving along. I am coming out of my shell and hanging out with friends again. Tomorrow is a party I'm looking forward to. I've been dating a little. That's been fun
Ramping up the church volunteer time. The holidays are a good time for that I think.
Peace to all of you.
AJ
Quick update:
I got a call today from exgf. We still talk. Her BFF's husband died this morning
He was 43.
Reminds me that life is short. That some things are really not very important comparatively speaking. I'm sad for her and her BFF. This was his second marriage and her first. They were very close. He leaves a 12 year old daughter behind as well. Very sudden (he had headaches all week and docs couldn't find anything wrong; died of an anyeurism.)
Sad.
AJ
Wow - that is very sad.
I lost my cousin in her 30's to an aneurysm.
And it's good to remind us here - get out and LIVE! None of us are guaranteed anything, so get out and smell those roses!
KML, I totally agree.
Journal:
I was responding to some other posts earlier. One poster caught my attention so I followed them back in the archives. One post she made referred to the feelings she had about her first marriage. How she felt and why she left it. How she felt he never loved her etc.
As I read it my skin crawled a little. The reason for that is that it drove home that I really had very little part in my wife's leaving and subsequently divorcing me.
I'm not perfect. I have my issues. But her leaving had little to do with me. I see that. I saw that. But that post reminded me of that and some of the thinking and what role the EA played.
Truth is, if the EA had that impact, the marriage wasn't going succeed anyway. I can see that. But it didn't have to end like that either.
Anyway, just wanted to get that off my chest. Life is short and I have many miles to go (metaphorically speaking) before I rest.
Ciao,
AJ
Journal. Saw my daughter tonight. She was at a church group. I said hello, but she turned around and didn't speak to me.
For somebody who doesn't "hate" me, she sure has a funny way of showing it.
I've been thinking lately. Mostly because of ex and her trying wanting to talk instead of email. I don't want to. I see her as the monster still. So I don't talk to her. It's still not something I enjoy. I agreed to let her come over and pick up D passport in the coming week. Or weeks. No telling when she'll come by, although she'll have to let me know before too long. If the pattern holds, she'll say something in the next week or so to work out a time. I've been thinking about that.
I don't talk to her because I don't trust her. She is manipulative and often mean. Even in the emails. Funny how a little word here or there is telling. I've decided to take a different tack and respond back with the more positive language of somebody who is polite. Maybe she'll get the hint, since directly telling her hasn't worked to date.
Does this junk ever end? I'm sure it does, but how long does it take? I mean really? (I know the answer to that, just expressing it out loud
Peace,
AJ
I am not sure exactly what made it change for me. I was really cold in the beginning couldn't even look at him. Then of course treated him like the mailman. Now it is like talking to the guy I knew.
I still see how things hurt my kids, how he still hurts them now. So I know that he is still in a fog.
So something changed in me. I figured I needed to coparent to some degree with him. I melted a bit. The kids are a bit more at ease with him as well. So I think you are on to something by being kinder. As your relationship thaws between the two of you, it may also warm between you and your daughter. 16 is a hard age. I have one myself.
kat
I know the answer to this before I ask it.
Why does it have to be me again?!???
Ok, I'm done whining about it
Saw a sign the other day. Said Screw your past; don't let it screw you (similar to that; I paraphrased. The word they used rhymes with truck).
Made me laugh.
I'm sure I have to thaw a bit towards her. I try, but sometimes wonder when is it my turn with this dynamic. Then I remember that I don't want a turn in the crazy house. That I just want to be me. To be left alone. I remember that I have to be the one to stop how she treats me because it won't otherwise.
That's the part that reminds me she made me her enemy. I doubt I'll ever know why, and I've long ago given up trying to find out. But I do know she has. I can't live that way (hating somebody). That would kill me to hate somebody that way.
Instead, I wish her well. I really do. I did (and do) love her. Just differently. I wish her the best in her future paths. I sometimes wish she'd just leave me alone and stop trying to hurt and be petty. But that's not reality so I go back to my previous - it's up to me.
I'm not sure, but I think you're right Kat. I'll try to thaw a bit, but I have no intentions of talking to her personally. She has my email address. She can talk all she wants and I do respond. That was thawing for me.
Thanks for posting.
AJ
I'll send you a blow dryer!!
kat
LOL. Thanks for the laugh!
I do not want this post to get lost in archives.
AJ's view and toughts are amazing and well written.
I refer to it often and benefit from it.
Thank-you AJ !
Screw your past; don't let it screw you.
I'm liking that. It's hard to let go of the past...but it's necessary.
Just journaling. Things have been really good for me. I got a thank you text from D. That was certainly unexpected but nice to get.
Also got a lot of flack from ex. She's still a monster, but didn't expect much else. She told me to wake the f** up about my daughter. Said I should think of her (I do) and when I asked her for her to share her thoughts (it is my daughter after all; I feel I need to ask if there is something to hear) she replied she doesn't care to share anything with me. This was from a conversation where I asked for my son's passport to renew it. I want to take him to London for the 2012 olympics. She got indignant for my daughter (WTF? right?) Said I should think of her feelings. To which I pointed out that daughter is welcome to come and doesn't know about it, so it won't bother her for now even if it did later. She ranted and raved that I should call the D's therapist. Yeah right.
Lots of mixed messages in that sense. She acts like she wants to share things about the kids but then shies away and acts like an orgre. I realized I have to put up with this behavior (to some degree) for the next 3.8 years while my son is not 18. After that, we don't have to talk. I look forward to that, because it is annoying.
When I got back from Calif I cleaned out the storage. It dawned on me then that she left her past behind. Pictures, keepsakes, etc. Me included of course, but more than that. I knew that, but it really sank in that day.
So I swore off crazy people for that month. I liked that enough to extend my crazy people ban for November and then December. I'm still carrying on that ban, in case you wondered and it really works well for my sanity
Things are settling at work. I'm getting into a groove and starting to feel more comfortable. Things that happen outside work really don't bother me much. At work they don't either but that's just me. I take them as they come and deal with them. Feels good to be accepting things like that. Feels natural.
I've decided to return to college as well. Working through the mountains of paperwork. Wheeee.....
Also taking on more at church. Lots to do there.
And I'm dating a really nice girl for a few months now. It's fun and relaxing if not difficult to get the time.
Anyhow, nothing else to really report on nor update. Things are progressing but mostly at a slow pace.
Peace,
AJM
AJM,
I like what you wrote on Tads thread. Really hit home with me.
I started to read your thread here, will have to come back later.
I just want to agree, I just don't understand why my H keeps telling me that we will still be friends if we get divorced. I'm not even sure we are much more than a bad habit for each other right now.
Aloha!
The WAS thinks being friends will be easy. They aren't the ones who were rejected.
True That! /\/\/\/\
I think you hit the nail on the head. Rejection stinks!
And my H hates rejection...... One of his big fears!
So, I just finished reading this whole thread. AJ, you said many times that you hope this thread can help others. I just wanted to let you know that a lot of what you said really hit home. These last few days have sucked for me but your words helped me realize a lot if things. Thanks.
How are things with your D these days?