Hi all. I'm a DBer from several years ago. I wonder if anybody here remembers me or even was around when I was active on these boards?
I am at a point where my D has been final for a long time now, my X has already had his 1 yr anniversary in his new marriage to OW (ugh!). I am in a new R, and we have talked seriously about getting married, but neither one of us is quite comfortable with taking that step at this time. My BF went through a divorce in about the same time frame as my divorce. Maybe it is just too soon for us? Or maybe we just aren't right for each other? How do I tell the difference?
I'm having a lot of trouble putting this into words. Maybe I don't even know what I am trying to ask. I'd really love to see a forum on starting new relationships after a divorce. How to avoid making the same mistakes. How to avoid being angry at your SO because s/he happened to do something that resembled something your X did. How to use some of the DBing philosophies and techniques from ground-zero to build a divorce-proof marriage this time around. That kind of stuff.
I've browsed through this forum a little and see that some of you are in new relationships. However, so far I haven't seen much discussion of this kind of stuff. Does anyone have any thoughts? Can you point me to threads that cover these issues?
Thanks!
911
Welcome back! A couple questions come to mind . . . do either of you (yourself or SO) have children? That is such a huge issue of taking the relationship to the next level (marriage). There has to be a reason you are questioning your relationship with him? Do you fill that you are not being satisfied? How long have you two been together?
I'm where you are at as well - thought I found someone I could spend the rest of my life with but 2 years went by and I have put the brakes on. I still care very much for him but we weren't on the same page and a lot of it was my fault - habits I'm trying to change!
One thing I will suggest - you can't compare your new SO to your former spouse and what he did that you didn't like. You can bring it up to him that you don't care for that but don't say that is what Jack used to do. That wouldn't be fair.
I would hope my next marriage if there is to be one could be divorce proof but I have learned there are no guarantees in life - I think that is why I'm so very cautious to say I do again. I have 2 young children so if I do I have to be pretty certain that it is for many years to come.
As to other forums to send you to - not real sure - usually this forum will hit on it now and then. Mastateflower and R2 post and they live together now - they might be able to shed some light for you.
Give us more info and I hope we can help you.
Missy
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do either of you (yourself or SO) have children? That is such a huge issue of taking the relationship to the next level (marriage).
TKKC1 posed this question to me this morning:
What benefits do your children get from you entering a new relationship?
merrick: Is this the situation you are at? Entering a new relationship and you have children? Does he have children too?
For me - my children are very young - 8 & 11. I don't believe in introducing them to my SO until there is an established relationship. He happened to have children my kids age and we all had good times together. My childrens father lives out of state and they see him maybe 5 or 6 times a year. I am sorry that my children are faced with a step family lifestyle possibly down the road but they will always comes first in my life and his (whoever that may be) children should be first in his life. I think my kids could benefit by experiencing what its like to live life in a loving family atmosphere. Not all step families are horrid experiences.
Missy
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merrick: Is this the situation you are at? Entering a new relationship and you have children? Does he have children too?
If it's a "he," I've got a lot of explaining to do! 
Missy-
I'm legally separated for just over four months and had a devil of a time accepting just that. I'm also a newly minted egghead type Catholic and before even getting to kids, I have lots of theological/intellectual issues to grapple with about M and D--and Rs alltogether. Put kids into the equation, and for me it comes down to balancing my own personal desires (I'm purposesly not using the word "needs") against what I believe is best for my kids.
I have three kids S11, D10, D7--and at this time, I can't possibly see how they would benefit by my bringing a new person into their lives. While I recognize that each sitch has its own unique twists ande demands, such as where a WAS has abandoned a family, engaged in abuse, or left the family without money to live, I'm really not in that kind of bind.
Sure I'd like to share myself with a partner, but to what end? Sex? I can get that in any bar if that's all I really wanted. And even if I find the "right" woman, what makes me think that a new R won't come with its own new set a baggage--which afflicts even the best of R's. Do I really want to add this on top of my existing complications?
I may want to go there one day, but from what I've seen, most younger kids with their parents in new R's experience a lot of conflict, turmoil, and confusion--especially when they have close contact with their each of their parents. The more third parties that enter their parents' lives, the greater the confusion and opportunity for conflict. Is that a rule? No. But I'm comfortbale suggesting it is a regular outcome.
So, as one of my wise fellow Dbers reinforced with me, I'm number four in a family of four--and my kids have to be put in front of me. And you know what, since I've been separated, I've re-egnineered my R's with each of them and have made them better. And I've found terrific ways to take care of me that don't involve a new R with another person, including an R with God that offers wonderful insights into human life if you truly let Him in.
Look, I'm not going to be judgmental and have learned to take care of my own buisness. I don't know anything about your SO and why he parted with his first W. But I do know that we have a tendency to put a positive spin on things that we aspire to and tend to ignore objective reality until it smacks us upside the head. While I may go another way, I truly wish the best for you and your family.-
merrick: Sorry about that - I looked up your old thread and realized I called you by the wrong gender.
Thanks for your insight! Everyone's lives are so different, everyone has different obstacles to get past - there isn't a right answer here - it is what works for each individual situation.
I'm glad for you that you found growth with your relationship with your children and hope it continues to grow for all the years to come!
I wish you well
Missy
Lady 911. I recently remarried to a woman I very much love. I have two young boys, and she has a teenage daughter. A few thoughts come to mind.
1. Read books on 2nd marriages. We read a few, some sections which I thought were ridiculous have turned out to be true. Ex-spouses do get in the way. Living with step children are different than your own. Finances are an issue. etc. etc. In other words, things are complicated and they require a lot of thinking.
2. Practice DB from the start. I can assure you that whatever habits you had with your first spouse, you will have with your second. We are creatures of habit and habits are hard to break.
3. There is no such thing as getting married to soon or a "right amount" of time to wait before marriage. You'll know when it's right. If it's not, do yourself a favor and get out now. Don't go through another divorce.
4. Set realistic expectations. You will have less time for yourself, there will be demands on your time you have not experienced since becoming single again, you will have less time to spend with your kids as your new partner requires time, etc. etc.
5. Don't think your new marriage will make you happy. It is not a fairy tale. If you are not already happy with yourself, and your new spouse is not a positive happy supportive loving person, then you will be miserable. Again.
Good luck with your new BF.
Thank you everyone for replying.
To answer some of the questions that were asked and give some more background on my sitch...
Both BF and myself have 1 D. Mine is 8 1/2 and his is almost 4. Mine sees her father on alternate weekends (more during the summer). He has full custody of his; there is no contact between the D and her mother.
How we got together is a long and kind of wierd story. Maybe I'll get into more of it later, but basically I moved into his spare bedroom to be a nanny for his D who was about 18 months at the time. At that point, he and I knew each other although not very well, but he knew I was unemployed, and he knew I used to work in daycare, so he offered me the job. Then we started having feelings for each other, and things went on from there. We are still in separate bedrooms, because we agree that we don't want the girls to see us sleeping together before we are married, but we do not hide the fact that we are romantic with each other (they see us hug & kiss & say ILY). We have been together romantically for close to 2 years now. We have been in many ways functioning as a family for about 2 1/2 yrs, and the girls have a sister-like relationship.
Merrick asked the question that TKKC1 had asked him: What benefits do the girls get from our relationship? Well, at the beginning it was obvious and simple. BF's D needed some form of child care, and I and my D needed financial help and a job that included a roof to keep over our heads was a godsend. This of course does not address what they get from the romantic relationship that has since evolved. I think because of the unusual way in which things progressed, and simply because this is where we are now, it might make more sense to ask what advantages/disadvantages are there for the girls if we stay together, or break up. Breaking up would be almost as bad for the girls as if BF & I were the parents of both of them and we got divorced and split up siblings. The advantage of breaking up would be that if it is going to happen, sooner would be better than later.
Running out of time so I'll post more later.
911
Allan, do you have any specific titles you could recommend for the books on 2nd marriages?
I have heard there are books that take you through some of the same "how to figure out if this is right and what to expect in the years to come and how to make it work" type questions and exercises that they do in the "Engagement Encounter" type things that many churches offer. I have been interested in going through one of these, either do-it-yourself book or the actual clinics. Does anyone have any knowledge of anything like this? Are there any aimed at 2nd marriages?
911
Lady
Have you shared Divorce Busting with your boyfriend?
Livnlearn
PS And the Five Love Languages?
Any relationship will have "problems" and compromises that need to be made. First marriages as well as second.
What are the specific problems, if any, that you feel exist or would come up between you two?
Livnlearn
Livnlearn, thank you for stopping by my thread.
I haven't found my copies of DB & DR, they are in a box somewhere. I did check DR out of the local library, and BF & I started reading it together. We aren't very far into it yet. I've never read the 5 Love Languages, but I'm reasonably familiar with the concepts in it. My sister read it quite a few years ago and really liked it and shared the concepts in it with me. Then of course I heard a lot about it on these boards back when I was DBing trying to save my marriage. I have thought that if reading DR together goes well, that might be the next one I want to check out.
911
First of all, I know more than one of you has asked why I am doubting the relationship. I wanted to put some more thought into that before I answer.
In the meantime, some more replies to other questions & comments:
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Missy said:
you can't compare your new SO to your former spouse and what he did that you didn't like. You can bring it up to him that you don't care for that but don't say that is what Jack used to do. That wouldn't be fair.
I do agree with you in general that as much as possible you should avoid comparing new SOs to old ones. And if you have a complaint such as wanting more help with the housework, it will be much more productive to simply tell your SO that. Saying "How come men never help with the housework? X never did his share and now you aren't either!" is not the way to get results.
However, I think sometimes it is unfair to NOT explain that the X did that. Otherwise the new SO will see you getting upset all out of proportion to what happened, and not understand why. Let's take an example of a woman who was physically abused by her X. When her new SO playfully swats her bottom while ML, she totally freaks out. It isn't fair that she reacts so negatively to something that was done playfully and lovingly, but I think it would be better for the new SO to at least understand why she reacted the way she did. Admittedly, the perfect thing would be for the woman to be able to separate the two and not have the negative reaction in the first place, but I don't think most of us are able to do that all of the time. I know I can't!
This is why in my original post one of the things I mentioned was "how to avoid being angry at your SO because s/he happened to do something that resembled something your X did." I know I shouldn't do it, but sometimes I can't seem to avoid it, especially when BF bumps into one of those scars that hasn't healed yet. BF and I have discussed this, and we use the term "pits" to refer to those things that we are over-sensitive to due to past experiences. He has pits too. I would guess we all do, but probably recent divorcees have more than average. It helps just to have given them a name, and sometimes we say things like "Did I just find a pit?" or "I think you just fell into one of my pits."
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Missy said:
I think my kids could benefit by experiencing what its like to live life in a loving family atmosphere. Not all step families are horrid experiences.
I agree totally. I (with a lot of help from my X) have already shown my daughter how to have a marriage the wrong way and end up divorced. I really hope that I will be able to remarry and show her how a good marriage works.
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Merrick said:
The more third parties that enter their parents' lives, the greater the confusion and opportunity for conflict.
This is true, but new people entering their life also brings opportunities for lots of positive things. I think the real harm comes when the new people *exit* their lives. This breeds a lack of trust and makes it harder for the child to form new bonds because they are afraid they will be broken again. This brings up the question of when is the right time to introduce a new SO to the kids. In my sitch, it ended up that the kids knew all parties involved before it became a romance. Even then, BF & I struggled with wondering when to tell them about the romantic side of our relationship. We ended up just gradually letting them see it, rather than sitting them down to have a talk about it. I don't know if this was the right way to do it or not, but it seemed to work out ok.
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Merrick said:
But I do know that we have a tendency to put a positive spin on things that we aspire to and tend to ignore objective reality until it smacks us upside the head.
Yes, and that is one of the reasons I came back to these boards. Usually people who are a bit more removed from the situation can be more objective. So please smack me upside the head if I need it! 
911
Lady 911..
Here is what has been working for me and my GF in our new relationship.... we are both D'd and do not, repeat, do not, want to start a new marriage without a realistic approach.
A counselor is working with us with a few principles as follows:
1. Problem Solving.... all relationships amount to is solving problems together throughout life. Problems may be what we normally consider problems like health, money, family, etc.... or as simple as routine decision making... ie.. what will we do over the weekend? I have this need, you have that need, etc. If we solve problems effectively together.... we can achieve a lot and find happiness and build synergy in the relationship.
2. Values.... how we solve problems is usally based on our values. People of dis-similar values are less likely to solve problems in a mutually satisfactory way so a probability for a good relationship is low. So we did a searching session to honestly discover our values. It turned out they are quite close. Certainly compatible.
3. Behaviours... do our behaviours match our values? The main cause of stress in our lives is if we behave differently from our values (so this theory goes). So we asked ourselves... do our behaviours match our values. If not, how do we adjust that.
So bottom line... if your values are similar and are behaving in accordance with them, two people in a relationship will likely be able to solve problems or make decisions together effectively and build a happy productive life together. It is also easier to admire, respect, and be attracted to someone over the long term with whom we get along in this way.
Under-pin all of that with physical attraction to one another and that adds up to a winning combination.
That is the famework we are working in anyway... it seems to be working... we have weathered some storms and are really in love. There is much, much more to it... but this set of principles has been very helpful to us.
Can give specific examples if that would be helpful.
Ciao!
Chazz,
It sounds like you know exactly what I am talking about. I don't think I want to work with a counselor at this point, but it sounds like the things you and your GF are working on with your C are the kinds of things I want to work on with BF.
Having good problem-solving skills and a working approach to problem-solving within your relationship should be a no-brainer for DBers, although it is frighteningly easy to fall into old habits.
A few days ago I followed a link LittleBill posted in "When Therapy Hurts" back in 10/04. There was good information there and browsing around that site some more I found this:
Is Marriage a Dinosaur? It says that researchers can now predict which engaged couples will succeed or fail with better than 90% accuracy, based on _how they handle_ disagreements (not the content or number of their disagreements). It would sure give me some peace of mind if BF & I could be tested by one of those researchers and find out we passed! However, this claim actually seems somewhat in contradiction with what it says later on that same page: that "research finds that we are ALL capable of learning the basic marital skills". I read that to mean that even if a couple fails this test, they should have a high chance of succeeding as long as both parties are willing to put in the effort to learn and apply the necessary skills, although it does not say that on that webpage.
This "test" or whatever it is researchers were doing to make their predictions... has anyone heard of such a thing? It seems like it would be an extremely useful tool, not just for couples to decide if they should tie the knot. Also for diagnostics of a relationship that is in trouble... to indicate who needs to work on what. Maybe it isn't that specific. Who knows? I just found it really interesting considering I've never heard of anything even close to that in terms of predicting the future success of a marriage. I'd like to know more details about how these predictions were made!
Chazz, you said you did a session where you did "searching to honestly discover your values". I'm curious exactly what you did. Is it something that I could replicate at home with BF?
Behaviors matching values... I don't think I've thought of the importance of that in terms of a marital relationship. Hmmmm, food for thought.
Thank you so much for your reply! You said you could give specific examples. Please do!
911
911...
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"searching to honestly discover your values". I'm curious exactly what you did. Is it something that I could replicate at home with BF?
You probably could replicate this. We simply took a list of about 30 values and rated our top 10. It is important though to have some common understanding of the definitions of the values listed. Otherwise you may find out you have chosen different things, yet that does not necessarily reflect that you are not compatible... it may just mean you interpreted the one-word descriptions differently.
For this reason... a counselor is important. I feel that anything that is important is worth paying for. I pay my accountant and lawyer. Why not a counslor? I would really suggest professional guidance.
Or at least find a program at perhaps a church or community group that may help you explore your compatibility with a neutral person guiding. Otherwise, the blinded by love thing could cloud your judgement. That is the danger.
Will post again... short on time at the moment... will see if I can post the list of values soon when time permits.
Ciao!
Why not a counselor? This is partly financial. But also I am one of those who feels that counseling hurt my marriage, so I really don't have a lot of interest in trusting my new R to the hands of a counselor.
I do want to go to an Engagement Encounter type thing before I get married again, but BF & I aren't at the point where that would be appropriate. So that is why I am looking for books & techniques and other stuff that will help lift the fog and let us make a good decision about where we are going (or aren't going) with this R.
If you can find & post that list of values I would appreciate it! It does sound like a useful exercise.
911
Lady- thank you for your post.
I am fresh into all of this. July 12th my (now) XH dropped the bomb. August 26th the D was final. 1 week after what would have been our 3 year wedding anniversary. This year would have been 8 years together.
But I am doing ok and I am actually seeing my BF from high school.
I am only 24, no kids, and it seems that it wouldn't matter if I had waited 10 years to be in a R or now- the same issues are there.
The fear, the worry, all of it. I am struggling to figure out what to do, what to say, is this right, etc.
Basically, here is my 2 cents. I have no answers. All I do know is that so many of us are in the same boat. In a new R. Hurt by the XS. Betrayed, hurt. We all have this DB knowledge and we all have each other for wonderful advice. Many of us feel we have been betrayed by our own hearts telling us our XS was "the one." I know I do.
The ultimate healer and answer is time. Other than that- if you believe in a higher being- you can ask for strength and ask for guidance. You can lean on us and your other friends for advise and for support.
Unforunately, I have learned that there are no easy answers- no matter how much we wish for them to exsist.
Sorry. Hang in there.
TMW,
Thanks for dropping by my thread. You make an interesting point that it may not matter if we wait 10 years before starting in a new R. I probably would still have all the fears caused by past hurt & betrayal. Some of the specific issues might not be so raw, but overall, I'm not going to be able to regain trust by avoiding having a R.
And yes, part of it is that I don't trust myself, my ability to determine if this R will work, if this man is one who will stand by me or leave me for someone else if the going gets rough.
911
The Values list is in PDF format so can't post.
I would just suggest you do some exploration of values... to me this is the key.
As far as counslors go... I too had a bad experience. It was a counselor who suggested separation and planted the seed of divorce to my wife.
The very person you turn to for help ends up hurting you more than when you walked in the door.
There are, however, good counselors out there. I have found one.
As for books... I would suggest one called the Five Love Languages or something like that. Author last name is Chapman I think. Great concepts.
Anyway.... am gone for a month or two.
All the best on your sitch.!!!
Hi Lady 911! You cannot imagine my shock when I read your name here again on the bb. I have often wondered how you were doing. I rarely see anyone who started on the bb when we did....way back when. There are three or four left floating around here that were in our original group.
I am glad to see that you are doing well and have found someone you are considering marrying someday.
I have also found someone...a fellow DB'er of all things. It makes for an interesting relationship to say the least!
Sometimes we look at one another and ask, "Are you DB'ing me?" It can be quite humorous at times.
I believe that only time is going to heal all the wounds we have received. Even then the scars can be pure hell when someone bumps into them. Sweetie and I occassionally bump one another's scars....not intentionally, of course, but it does still happen.
When it does happen, we both try to remember that we must communicate in a positive way about what has happend. That communication is vital. The way we handle it is that he will say, "Okay, C*****." I immediately get the message. My message to him, when he hits one of my scars is to say back to him, "Okay, T****, better known here on the bb as Old Whiplash. Those little words say volumes to each of us. Sometimes we give an explanation of why whatever it is bothers our scars. Sometimes we don't because an explanation isn't necessary because we have immediately recognized what has happened.
My advice to you and to everyone else is don't be overly afraid of a new relationship. Take your time. Don't rush. Don't let hormones get in the way of your common sense and sense of self-preservation. Next, communicate. Talk to one another. And last, learn what his or her love language is.
Life can be good here on the other side of divorce.
Good luck to you.
Butterfly2000 (B2K)