Outta Neutral...shifting into First Gear with H!!

Divorcebusting.com

Hey all my DBer friends....

I'm sooo anxious to share our progress the last 2 days....H wants to work on "US"!!!!! Whew!!!!

Could one of you list my past posts to connect my story?
(Not at all skilled at that!

)

H came out Fri night after work....called to coordinate time and dinner plans. My Mom is here too, until Tue...so she is always part of the plan.

H was actually about 15 min. early....dinner was "take-out"...and he was totally happy to be included. We had a nice evening....H was kind, warm....come gentle affection.

Sat. a.m.....we woke up early, had coffee...and he suggested we talk. I asked that we NOT ASSume anything about each other....and share where we each are at, at the moment....this slice of time. H said, good idea....he was ready to "talk" (I initiated carefully, and he seemed to like that....180 for me)

H shared where he was at and said many things, that pretty much laid out he wanted to work on "US"....so many things, but will highlight his comments:
...."I have always respected, cared for you..."
..."We have such a long, great history together..25+yrs.."
..."Those years have been the most significant in my life."
..."I want our foundation to be about US, not just because we have kids together.."
...."We are very wired very differently....and that is a very positive things in our R...we compliment each other."
..."WE are very compatable....and should considerate ourselves lucky....(he read an article in Wall St Journal about that...finding long term compatability...something to hold on to.)
..."It took us time to get into our R problems...so we need to take time to work things out."
...We both have communication issues from time to time...that frustrate me, but I'm trying to not get so keyed up about them."
...."Still plan to keep my apt for the summer, but wants me to come in the city often...and he comes out here."
...."Wants to take a vacation with me in late July..."
...."Remembered our anniversary that is coming up...(25th!)

Some of my responses:
...."I sensed you were drawing closer...testing the waters."
...."I think it will take time to build up trust, communication, and figure out what it will take to make things work."
...."I am working on me...my communication skills, but fall into old patterns when stressed. Will always keep trying to change my skills for the better, but I am human, and we will make mistakes along the way."
..."We will probably take 3-4 steps forward and 1 back as we go through this process."
...."let's just take things slowly....one day at a time."

Then we went for a long walk with the dog. Came home, continued our work-out....

....and just hung around all day. He suggested running errands together....d's graduation next week....got gifts. We sat out on the deck, read, took a nap, went golfing late in the day. Had drinks and BBQ with Mom and son. Just a nice, nice...day. Occasional affection throughout the day....little, but some.

This a.m., we both got up, read the paper, coffee....then he got out his calender and we discussed all our plans for the next 2 weeks....his work, golfing, trip to Seattle for d's graduation....all the events surrounding that. Our anniversary date (he travels that evening...he said we'll pick another day to actually celebrate.

He is sleeping here until we leave for Sea...(Tue)...I will stay with him in his hotel most of the week, except 1 night....bringing my Mom to her place.

All in all.....a great turning point.

No talk about OW....will tread on that lightly, until the time is right. That's something we will have to cover soon. If you read my last post....there is absolutely NO sign of her at all. She may have left the Co. or moved....waiting for him to bring it up, for now.

Well couldn't wait to share this with you. Will keep you posted, but after Tue, will be outta touch for about a week.

Thank you for all your continued help, prayers, and encouragement....I know that between God and DBing pals and councelor...this is what guided US back on track.

Very hopeful...some hard work ahead....but exciting!

Love, Mooka

# 1

Previous thread: No longer in neutral...piecing forward on my own

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!

Mooka~

Doing the happy dance for you!!

Please keep us updated and go slow!

How wonderful for you!!

Blessings
Water

Mooka - Congratulations -

C has told me some of the same things but is not quite to the place where she will say she is working on US but I hope she will get there soon. Keep praying for her and me and maybe she will come off the fence on my side soon.

Mooka

You have been a diligent DBer, as I recall from reading your threads, and deserve every success!

Here's to your H and you, and happy piecing!

Livnlearn

Go You!

very

Cathy

Congratulations Mooka! Very happy for you. Maybe it's something in the water. Or maybe the mother ship finally came back to return some of our spouses, huh? YAY!

May I suggest an excellent book to aid in your reconcilliation and healing? It is titled, "How Can I Forgive You?", by Janis Abrahms Spring -- author of "After the Affair." It is the most interesting, logical, and easy to understand book I've read regarding forgiveness.

My H and I are almost two years into our healing. I put my own needs on hold while my H overcame his severe depression. I assumed that after he got his head together, we would work on my issues. That wasn't happening. My H simply wanted to "forget it." He didn't want to talk about it. His thinking was that by bringing up the past it would just serve to perpetuate bad feelings and recriminations. I couldn't get him to understand how important it was for MY healing for him to talk openly and honestly with me.

I guess I finally got his attention when a couple of months ago I told him I had made an appointment to see a counselor -- just for me. I felt stuck in my healing process and since he didn't seem willing to help me, I would seek help elsewhere. He said he would do anything to help make things better for me. I stumbled across this book, and it laid out in print exactly what I had been feeling and trying to express to my H.

Basically, it talks about "cheap forgiveness" and how ineffective and destructive it can be. "Cheap forgiveness" means exactly that -- those who chose to forgive without making the offender "earn" forgiveness. That doesn't mean making the offender grovel and beg for forgiveness. It just means there are certain steps that should be taken by the offender to demonstrate remorse to the offended. And, it is more than simply ending the affair and promising to never do it again. It takes some hard work on both part of both parties.

I encourage you to get the book. It has helped me tremendously. As my H works to earn my forgiveness, I feel the resentment slipping away. We are beginning to share a much more intimate, much stronger bond than ever before in our history. My H is actually feeling empowered as he sees his efforts to "fix things" having an affect. He is a "fixer", and for him to have felt unable to fix the mess he created was extremely hard for him -- made him want to run from it, avoid it.

I have also put myself in the role of the "offender" I know I had a great part in the state of our marriage at the time my H succumbed. So, in essence, we are both working towards "genuine forgiveness" from the other.

The hard work is really just beginning, but if you do it right you be incredibly surprised at the rewards. Good luck.

I highly recommend and strongly urge this b

Congrats Mooka! I am very happy for you!

Thanks also to Matilda for the book recommendation. I think this bears further exploration as I told my H that I can forgive but I am not sure I can forget. And he wants me to erase it all from my mind.

That is exactly why this BB remains so important to those of us experiencing success too!

Have a great day!

Hello my friends....

Just a quick check in to thank you all for your kind, sincere feedback. Pam...with the PMA support and help connecting my posts....Odga, LnL, Cathy, Rottz and Totite...continued up-lifting words of support, and empathy for the next phase to follow. And Matilda...the book reference is a great idea.

H and I have soooo much to wade through the next several weeks along with D's grad, travel, my Mom around, etc. sooo we are just getting along for now....not going into heavy details. We'll probably "talk" a couple times per week about our R....and then live life inbetween.

We had a pleasant week-end hanging together....H and Son got into it tonight...so I'm just "doing nothing"....another 180 for me from past years...I used to get right in the middle of their issues, and cause even more stress. I just asked H, quietly, if there was anything I could do....he said no....it was between he and son. They'll work it out....typical son returning from college for the first summer and exhibiting a bit of an attitude. Oh well....parenting goes on even with college age kids.

Love all your continued feedback. Wish me luck with our adventure in Seattle. H and I have planned one night for just ourselves...no kids, no Mom....should be nice.

Later my friends.

Mooka

Good luck in Seattle... and keep up those great 180s!

take care Mooka!
wonder

Mooka,

Great news!!! I'm so proud of you!!! You are walking the walk!! Enjoy your trip!! NIK

Hello all....time to catch up a bit!

Had a great, great week in Seattle. Had lots of events surrounding our D's graduation...dinners, ceremonies, brunches, more ceremonies, etc. H was around most evenings, all but one...he had a work related dinner that he completely informed me about. I stayed with him all but one night....very nice.

He and I celebrated our Anniversary yesterday....he changed his work travel plans to be here, asked me to come into the city...meet him at work....went to his apt, had a nice, simple dinner...ML

...talked about having more time on the week-end to celebrate, with a more formal dinner outing, and spending the days together.

It's so funny, cuz at his apt, he treats me like a real guest...getting wine, snacks, planning dinner, etc...asking me if I need anything, etc. I love it!

He's affectionate when he wants to be intimate...but not as much in-between.... Tho that was never his long suit...my LL is physical affection, his is quality time and uninterrupeted talks. I'm finally getting that. If I initiate a peck or gentle squeeze, he does respond. Just gotta keep my expectations in check.

Overall....I'm DBing the best I can. There are times, when I'm dying to press him on our R issues...but hold off. Taking the PRESSURE off is huge for him....he always draws closer when I do. (Even when I have stuff on my mind that takes me down...I shake it off the best I can, change the subject, lighten up and it goes sooo much better!!) He hasn't brought up our issues for a while. He does talk about our future together, tho. This is huge! Where we want to live someday....boating together, travel together, retirement...etc. Living a more simple life in the moutains...etc. It's great.

Also on our Anniversary last night, he toasted.."To 20+ wonderful years together, 2-3 ok years, 1 rough year and to 25 more wonderful years ahead." Wow...that was great!

He left this morning for his business trip, will be back tomorrow night. He's driving here, not into the city. He's only visiting his apt about once a week these past few weeks...has plans to be here all week-end.

I bought him a card, but have not given it to him. I thought I'd wait to see if he gets me something...a card or gift. I don't want to pressure that. He may not get the card til next year, who knows.

Just taking one day at a time...but feel that H is about 75% there....gotta continue to be patient.

Reading Love Languages was timely for me right now. Just focusing on what works and going from there. Hope one day he will be interested in reading that, so he can better understand me and my LL.

Thanks for your continued support and interest!

Mooka

Hi Mooka,

Good job and good for you, keep it up....NO PRESSURE...

Mooka,

You are doing so well at not pressuring your H. I am so glad to see things changing for the better! Woohoo!! If you want to chat sometime contact me at nikatnight04@yahoo.com

I would love to talk to you!

Nik

Nik and Wiley....I really appreciate you checking in and offering the continued encouragement.

Had another great week-end. H called me twice Friday night, one I missed....at a gf party....the second was later in the evening....he was at his apt. Giving me details of his trip....drive into the city...and he was ready to crash. He planned to come out the following morning and spend the week-end...thru Tues. (I leave Tue for another trip with my 2 best gf's)

We had a great day Sat....walked, talked,ML

... watched the US Open some. We made dinner reservations, got dressed up and went our to a favorite spot nearby. We had another toast...to hoping for 25+ wonderful years ahead. He talked some about work that night, so I took an opening and asked about OW. (I had not asked about her for 5-6 months!!!) He said he didn't want to talk about much of our recent past on this nice night together, but he did tell me she left the Co. at the end of the year...Dec?!?!? and he doesn't have any contact with her. He hears about her occaisionally through his staff who are personal friends of hers. That's it. But what a shocker for me....all along I thought he was working and talking with her daily!!!! This is huge for me to take in. That's what made me think about when(?) the last time I had brought her up. I shook my head, and said....well I wouldve had no reason to know that. He said, let's not talk anymore of the past tonight, and just enjoy our time together.

Sunday...went great too. He and I took a nice long walk, I went to church....he hit golf balls. We ran fun errands together...went out with our son to get golf lessons from him (he's an excellent golfer and teaches his parents!!). We had a B-B-Q...as H requested...and he opened presents from son and cards from me and the dog. He got up and came over an kissed me in front of son (this is big!) and thanked me for the nice card, nice dinner and great day. He's slowly starting to show bits and pieces of more affection throughout the day....it feels good.

Another overall positive for the week-end....there were about 3 times H could've gotten furstrated with me and in the past...would get harsh with words....this week-end, tho...he gently mentioned the issues (me being 20 min late after church...most of my issues that bug him center around timeliness!!)...anyway...he said "this isn't a real big deal, but when you give me a time to meet, try to stick to it....plan better, just out of respect." We also had a brief issue while driving....I was in the wrong turn lane...blah, blah, blah...I said..."oh well, we'll just have to turn around, again!" He kind of laughed...it softened the moment. Then when we got to the store we were looking for (which had moved!)...we started mocking each other about our tiff on where to go, which lane to be in, etc...just silly talk....and I then said...."boy these big fights are tough to take!" We laughed, because there was no fight....we both sucked it up momentarily, and then joked around about how silly little things can be. YEAH...he is working at improving our communication too!

Soooo many positives going on. He also talked about a trip WE could take together at the end of July....maybe to Europe using his mileage! He asked me to research it.....I'm good at that!

I called him this morning with some good news from his SIL....our neice (on his side) is having triplets!!! We were giggling about how they couldn't have kids for years and years, have 1 little girl...and now 3 healthy boys due in Nov!! He thanked me for calling him with the good news. Said he would be home on an early train tonight.

Yow.....

Life is moving forward and I am thrilled. Still connecting spiritally and asking for patience and continued Dbing skills.

Take care.

Mooka

Mooka,

Great to see your update!!! Looks like you and H are looking toward the future and not basing it on the past. What I mean is, you are not acting like past behavior dictates future behavior. EXCELLENT!!!!

Enjoy every minute, you deserve it!!!!

Nik

Finally....I'm back to catching any/or alll of you up on my sitch. Things are going so very well.....I'm not sure where to begin...how about some highlights:

-H took me to the airport for my week long trip with gf's. He kissed me good-bye and told me to have a wonderful time.

_H and I talked prior to leaving about the status of our R. He stated, "we are communicating better than we have in 2-3 years, spending lots of quality time together and enjoying each other." He said..."it will take some time and we've still got some hard stuff to talk about, but with time, we'll continue moving forward."

-I had an amazing trip with my gf's....hiking, swimming in the sea, touring.....great talks, food, wine....laughter, etc. Totally rejuvinating for me

-H stayed at our home with son for the entire week. They both said they got along great....had fun.

-H has been with me everynight at our home the last week. He left for a business trip this morning, but is coming back here Thur afternoon....

-H talked about his lease....may try to get out of it. (Nov. 1) If not, suggested our D living there in the fall when she returns home from college (she'll be done and hopefully working fulltime)

-ML

a couple times since I've been home (1 week)

-We played golf 3 times this past week, took long walks, had dinners home, drank champagne....etc...just dating, I guess

-H continues to talk about "US" taking a trip at the end of the summer....just the 2 of us.

-H also suggested a family trip over the X-mas holidays....a cruise or something fun for the 4 of us.

I'm anxious at times to ask specific questions about our future together, but i DON'T. I am totally trying NOT to put on the pressure. I am not playing games either. I am a better listener, validating more....carefully choosing my words when sharing thoughts.

No ILY's from either side. Just occaisional hugs, kisses, some touches....small stuff. Occaisional spooning in the a.m.

It's all so good right now. I want to move slowly and carefully. He's planning ahead week to week. Let's me know of meetings, work dinners, etc. He cuts out of them early and returns home. Yeah team....this DBing stuff is really paying off!!!

I'm still continueing with the NO PRESSURE plan....taking each day, one at a time.

Just had to share. Thanks to so many of you out there in BB-Land....I wouldn't be here with out your continued support and guidance. Bless you all.

Mooka

MOOKA!!!

Oh my gosh! how wonderful you sound.

Your sit sure has turned so very positive and I am soooo very happy for you.

You sound wonderful! Thanks for giving us all the wonderful update. Keep us posted as I know there is much yet for us to learn.

GO MOOKA!!

Continued Blessings to you and H!
Water

Mooka,

It sure is great to hear how well you are doing. Your patience is really paying off!!!! Thanks for visiting my thread!!! I am wearing thin on patience these days.

Nik

Things continue to be moving forward at a nice pace. Maybe should rename my post to "moving from 1st to 2nd to 3rd gear....humming right along and heading toward 4th gear!"

H called me at least twice a day while in Seattle for business this week. He was gone only 2 days. Came right home and wanted to play golf with me. We had a nice dinner....went to bed early

...and a peaceful night sleep. We both even slept in an extra hour than normal......that has been a very long time in coming!

He told me he had to work a lot this week-end...earlier in the week....I was cool...kind of indifferent. Then this morning said he wasn't going in much at all this week-end. Only the bare minimum...and wants to spend more time playing golf with me and hanging at home. That relieveing the PRESSURE plan is really working with my H. The more I let stuff go....act "as if"....the more he is drawn back, wants to make more plans with me...calls, checks in, etc.
IT IS AMAZING!

He has only stopped by his apt for a couple hours at a time, about once a week....to check mail and get clothes.

Looking forward to another nice week-end.

Mooka

Hi Mooka,

Quote:

That relieving the PRESSURE plan is really working with my H.

Yes it is AMAZING. Yet really so simple to the point where it boggles my mind when I look around the BB and see FEW people committed to doing it. LETTING GO & RELIEVING PRESSURE sets the foundation for a WA to come back IF THEY CHOOSE to. Even though you had a few setbacks here and there Mooka, you were consistent in allowing your H to "unstick" himself without trying to FIX too much. You also did an UNBELIEVABLE job in holding other parts of your family/social life together while he felt the need to seperate. That again RELIEVED PRESSURE OFF OF HIM. Not many people are strong enough not to overly panic and try to convince someone who needs to flee, not to flee. The STRONG ones see/think outside the proverbial "marital vows" box, allow their spouse their right to freedom outside the M and simply back off and let things unfold as they will. All the while of course, acting in a manner that would be conducive to DRAWING back someone romantically which as you've heard before revolves around.. STRONG QUIET CONFIDENCE, ACTING HAPPY, CASUAL INDIFFERENCE AND MYSTERY, and the ability to AGREE with NEGATIVE VIEWS ABOUT THE R OR M, and most importantly, SELF RESPECT (not pursuing someone with love and "giving" when it is not being reciprocated..). Those are all things that make us more attractive to someone who is trying to leave us, PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

Good job Mooka, I'm glad the "Unsticking" process appears to be ending on your doorstep...

TGIF

Hey Wiley...

Thanks so much for the visit and continued insights and thoughts. I missed you, but follow your advice, often..when you give it to others.

Wondering how things are for you and your personal sitch. You deserve only the very best in life....you have so much depth and insight, I hope one day soon another woman will discover you and you will have all you've ever wanted in a R.

In general, things continue to go pretty well with H and I. He is around full time. We went to his apt yesterday for a couple of hours....

...like a new get-away! He always wants to come back to our house tho.

had to work a few hours, so asked me to come into the city with him....I just walked around, window shopped, and he called me an hour earlier...was ready to go back home with me. He is sooooo communicative with his day to day schedule, issues, ideas for our future. It's great.

When I am alone, tho....I wonder in my head, WHEN

we will have the BIG talk about this past year. We make occaisional references to some of it...but not much to really resolve some of my issues.

A few months ago, my DB C, suggested I be very, very patient while H starts to show signs of moving back into a full M. He shows all the signs, talks about getting out of his lease....family plans for the holidays, retirement ideas, etc....but not the direct issue of him backing way off for over a year. UGH.

I may make an appt soon with my C, cuz I want to bring some of this stuff up, to break down the invisible wall that I can feel from time to time. It is my wall....H gives me no reason what-so-ever of being distant or stuck in what he wants. He just does not talk about it.

I want to wade into the conversation gently, w/o emotion....and start to air out what happened. I know we understand our issues or letting the R go....no nuturing, taking each other for granted, not really caring....just the maintenance stuff. I do get that. I do get my fair share of that. I just need to know more about OW. I know that she no longer works with his co. But, I know she still lives in the city.....works as a consultant, and probably does some business with his Co from time to time.

I know that these issues will need to be talked about....I guess I am just waiting for H to really have fallen back with me "Hook, Line, and Sinker"......that's what the C told me to wait for. Not to push while he is in the "returning" mode.

Just wanted to air my thoughts and journal here. Overall, I am happier and more at peace than I have been in 2-3 years....so I have lots to be grateful for. I am still working on me....staying strong, fit, and spiritually connected.

Thanks for wading through all of this.

Mooka

Mooka,

You are my hero!! You are doing such a wonderful job. I am glad to read how well things are going for you. I think what your counselor says makes alot of sense. Patience, patience and more patience, huh?!!
Nik

Hi all my BB buds!

Just popping in to check on some of you and to give a brief (?) update.

Things are progressing sooooo well with H and I. We've had some "firsts" the last few weeks....y'know since the turn around....

We've had friends over for BBQs...went really well, H very helpful, complimentary, fun....

Had my best friend for an overnight....she knows the entire sitch....h was great with her. Friendly, helpful with dinner, fun....his ole self.

H is planning, really planning a cool trip with me the first of Sept. We are heading for Europe for 12 days, booked the tickets yesterday....he's really involved in planning the logistics....seems as excited as me.

We are hanging together on the week-ends...golfing, walks, errands....the norm. He has only spent about 3 nights in his apt the last 2+months....Goes there about once a week to get stuff....but only is gone for an hour....I go with him part of the time.

H has NOT brought up OW as of yet. In my mind, I will need to get to this one day soon. But, don't want to push him quite yet. I have a mtg with my counselor this week, will get some guidance on how to continue in a forward direction....and how/when to bring some of the hard stuff up. We have had a few simple arguements the last 2 months (maybe 3)....but nothing really difficult. He seems as willing to resolve as I do. We are talking so much better. I am putting him first for a change....something I didn't do for years. He appreciates this, and is recipricating.

He is talking with the kids and I about plans for the fall, niece's weeding, Thanksgiving, and plans for X-mas. It's all about "US" as a family....too cool.

I know I have to still keep myself in check....there are things I think about daily....in some ways have dealt with R issues into a way H hasn't. I feel I discovered so much about me and us....through spritual pursuits, reading, this BB, KLA tapes, etc. I wonder about evolving in ways H has not....and if he will catch up or want to. He is acting as tho last year hardly even happened....just kind, fun-loving, nuturing, respectful, etc. It's good....but the hurtful stuff will need to be resovled one day.

I will check back in after my session with my C. She gives me incredible advice and guidance...know that will help.

Take care.

Mooka

Just a quick update....wanted to share the good news!

H discussed moving all his furnishings back home this month. He wants everything in place when our d arrives in Sept. She knows all our issues, but we're back on our track of working out our R and he wants her to see it first hand. We plan to have an open talk with both the kids soon to let them know of our progress.

YIPPEE...each week is getting better! Still treading carefully, staying on the DBing track....no demands or pressures....just positive reinforcement....upbeat attitude, fun-loving...and we are re-building as we go.

We are both looking forward to our 2-wk trip together the first of Sept.

Pinch me someone!!

Mooka

Ooouch!!!

No Mooka ... you're not dreamin'!!!

Its REAL ... and I'm sooo happy for you.

YIPPEE too!!!

'til later,
KAW

Thanks KAW for the support. I wish I could offer something up to you. I follow your posts....know you have been extremely patient. WOW...you are such a good, good man. Too bad your W only recognizes for brief periods of time. Her loss, really. Just keep taking good care of you...let her be. That ole "lovingly distant" thing, I guess.

Things are steady here with H. I pressured him slightly to talk with our S about him moving back here. H got a bit defensive and said, "It is obvious to him we are doing so well...what's the big deal with a BIG talk?" I backed off....and did/said nothing. And guess what? About 10 min later he called our S in and walked him through our sitch...saying, "we almost lost our R, but the sep helped us both realize that we had our priorities mixed up. That we are now focused on each other and making our R the main priority and communicating and enjoying each other more than we have in 5-6 years."

Well I got what I wanted to hear...in his words. He then asked me if I was satisfied....and discussed how I could have brought this whole thing up w/o putting H on the defensive. I accepted his point of view....and inside was feeling really good.

We are on the same track, and moving along at a steady pace. No ILY's....but as I told Nik....I can be really patient with those words...cuz I really only want them when it's heartfelt...with no pressure. BTW...I haven't said ILY either!

Trying to stay strong, PATIENT, continue to work on me and make H and the family my #1 priority. So far, so good!

I know my faith and God's guidance has played the main role here....I just know that deep in my heart. Trust...in God....it is truly worth it.

Mooka

Quote:

Thanks KAW for the support.

Anytime! ... and right back ach ya for the kind words.

Quote:

Well I got what I wanted to hear...in his words. He then asked me if I was satisfied....and discussed how I could have brought this whole thing up w/o putting H on the defensive. I accepted his point of view....and inside was feeling really good.

Quote:

That we are now focused on each other and making our R the main priority and communicating ...

I don't know what you said that "pressured" him into having a talk with son, but I would think a safe approach would have been to validate his point on the importance of communicating being a high priority in not only the R between you two, but to expand those lines with your kids and everyone else you hold dear.

In valuing his views so, while stating your's that he should talk to son should avoid putting him on the defensive.

From his words, he's taking the "textbook" steps back to M and your approach with the ILY's is on the mark. By the approach he is taking, he's working on figuring out what the definition of love is. Then it'll hit him that your R meets all the requirements of that definition. That's not only when you will hear the words but also feel the significance behind them. Just a little further down the road ... can't say how much further ... but its definately on his map!

'til later,
KAW

KAW....

You made some great points about my H.

Quote:

I don't know what you said that "pressured" him into having a talk with son, but I would think a safe approach would have been to validate his point on the importance of communicating being a high priority in not only the R between you two, but to expand those lines with your kids and everyone else you hold dear.

In valuing his views so, while stating your's that he should talk to son should avoid putting him on the defensive.

From his words, he's taking the "textbook" steps back to M and your approach with the ILY's is on the mark. By the approach he is taking, he's working on figuring out what the definition of love is. Then it'll hit him that your R meets all the requirements of that definition. That's not only when you will hear the words but also feel the significance behind them. Just a little further down the road ... can't say how much further ... but its definately on his map!

Reading your more objective responce really is reassuring. Thanks

BTW, yesterday he was a little on the edge before leaving for work. He was pleasant, but not as warm as usual. Then after work, I was light...shared bits of my day that made him laugh....he warmed right up. In fact....he mentioned that he's now cancelled his phone and TV cable at the apt....I said..."Wow that's a sign of a true committment!" He laughed and said..."you're right it really is!"

We had a really nice evening....the air is cleared and we're continueing on the forward track.

Time to catch up on some of you BB buds.

Mooka

Hi Mooka - Just scrolling through threads here looking for helpful hints from folks who have spouses moving back - so glad things are going well for you.

Slowly

mooka,
I ditto what slowly said

! I come here for crumbs and for a pick-me-up!

Thanks
Deb

Mooka....just been kinda scanning the bbb's lately..but I remember yours...wow......things are great..don't know if you remember mine or not, I am the one who is only about 30 miles from you..h and I were s for almost 2 yrs, now HAPPILY back..oh well, if you are interested check in on my posts between Feb and May..

I know the patience thing, and have been offering it to others here..in the beginning I wanted things to move quick..now know that it does not work like that. I too have found great comfort in God and all that he does for us. Like you I believe He was the main intervention in my m.

As far as the "talk" with your h, my h came clean and we discussed everything right up front..and for many weeks though, I had to keep asking little things that bothered me about "her"..he was more than willing to talk..but i will say just the other night(funny..our d moved into his apt..cause of lease thing, ) but the ow called to his apt, and left message about getting her bowling ball out of the locker(they were on a team together)blah..blah blah and how were he and I doi..well of course I said are you going to call her..he was ok with the question, but looked at me funny and said "sometime"..then I kept pushing about giving her the key..he said he would..but the funny thing was at 2 the next morning his cell phone rang(anyone who knows my story knows there many late night calls)..well it woke me right up, as it plays some weird music..and h was sleeping downstairs on couch(not all the time!!, but he gets restless legs..hot upstairs, and goes downstairs)and I crept down..he was awake, but did not wake up till the last ring..of course guess who I thought it was..figured "her" new bf had dumped her, and now she wants h again..anyway..he got up and looked at number, but it was some strange area code, with no name..so i went back to bed..could not sleep for a long time..next day asked him if he knew why I cam down..he said he assumed because I thought it was her..I said if she were to start that again would he tell me..he said he" guessed he should"..and then said and "I would have to tell her to stop"..so I felt better after the "guessed he should" of course he should.
I have stolen your post..sorry..just wanted to let you know that the "talk" really does clear the air, and allows total healing..but, again, do it in h time...my h told me he had a "god" moment..he was laid off from work in Jan..works at our church part time with finances..but that thet time off made him really think about what he had done..a stupid thing, that had hurt me..he had asked God for forgiveness and me...and I have truly given it to him...

So keep your faith..patience...strength, as you have well learned, all good things come in their own time.

Sue

p.s. I am so sorry for the long post......

So nice to hear from you...Slowly, Deb and Sue. It feels good to have you folks check in from time to time. Sometimes I feel like I am journalling to myself...but that helps here on the BB as well.

Went to Seattle last week to help our d move. She is moving back with us and looking for a real job...just graduated last week! Yeah team! She is on a trip for 2 weeks then will arrive here.

H and I are doing well. He planned work travel to Seattle part of the time I was there....so I stayed with him at the nice hotel. We are doing well. Some limited R talks...not too much. Like Sue said....keep up the patience and let it come in time....on H time. That's what my C emphasized as well. There are absolutely NO indications of OW....that really helps my attitude. H has totally moved out of the apt....we re-arranged the furniture in our home...with his added new purchases. He bought things that go with our current stuff....even at the beginnings of his move out. (INteresting

)

WE leave for a 2 week trip next Tue....will be out of touch on the BB after the 31st. I will check on some of you now....anxious to catch up.

Mooka

Hi Mooka... long time no post.

I've been reading over here and am really impressed with how things are progressing for you. Patience is key because action-wise, your H is doing the most critically important things, he's just doing them slowly...

Keep doing what is working... cause it sure is working. And keep listening to KAW... boy is that ever good advice and perspective!

wonder

Mooka!!! Your word are NOT falling on blind eyes. That I can asure you!

... and those very words are creating lotsa smiles too!

It sounds like you're adding lotsa adventure to your routine. Enjoy your trip ... and we'll be waiting to hear from you when you get back!

'til later,
KAW

Mooka,

You are such an inspiration. I am so glad to hear that xOW is not an issue. Let go and let God! I so need to remind myself of that. Have a wonderful time with your new improved hubby. Your patience is working KEEP it up! Nik

I so appreciate all the continued support. Thanks so much!! I really should rename this post to "Moving into 3rd gear"....cuz that's where I'd say we are headed.

I just posted to Nik and stated, that I often get myself into neg thinking and it really is something I HAVE to work on daily. H travels a lot for work...but calls a lot, changes his schedule to spend an extra day home with me...all the behavior is there. Not too many significant words yet. No ILY's, no I miss you...etc....oh well. My C reminded me not to let myself worry about that yet....it will come. Also no big apologies yet...just read a great article in Oprah's mag about apologizing.....again that PATIENCE thing is working....so I'll hang tough.

We are having fun, he has moved all his stuff back home....is planning Thanksgiving and X-mas with family...is planning our big vac next week. We are ML regularily

and that is going oh-so well.

So even with all the pos in my life and R....we all slide into neg stuff...and replay history. This process really takes time. I keep asking God to send the strength and see me through and keep on His track for me. He is doing it....in my life and others.

just wanted to ramble some. I will check in before I leave with H on Tue for our vac. Can't wait!

Mooka

Mooka,

Great job!! It's so great that your H's actions are speaking volumes. I wonder if his not bringing up xOW/bomb apologizes are due to the fact that he just wants to move forward and forget that chapter of your lives? Some people have a much harder time than others apologizing.

I am so glad to see you spending quality time with your H, that will surely strengthen your bond!

nik

I'm BACKKKKKK!!!!! Happy to say in pretty good shape with H. We had a great time....touring around....trains, ferries, planes....tons of walking...good food/drink and quality time, often just hanging in a park and listening to music or people watching.

We both agreed that it was a great vacation, much needed...and both trying to rebuild and heal.

HOWEVER.....we had one big arguement....2 nights before coming home....and guess who caused it???? That would be the dumb ole MOOKA! All along, tho things were going very well....just occaisional miscommunications, that were solved easily/quickly...we had lots of fun...warmth...ML

, cuddling....etc. But inside...I was wanting more...more...more. I wanted an ILY...but wouldn't go there first. I wanted him to bring up the old stuff and apologize...but wouldn't ask. I churned and wanted more.....rather than just appreciating what was working, that we were healing....and SLOWLY building trust. Every step of the way I have to remind myself to just "friggin" enjoy what is going well. Geez...so after afew glasses of wine...I pressed him some about the past. I thought I was being sweet and gentle....but WHOA...did that push Hs buttons. He got sooo defensive....and of course pushed back. Said....he thought we were both making such a good effort, trying hard to make the M work...and I have to bring this all up now. Of course, I wasn't in good form...said more than I should of....it was like a huge wall/mountain grew immediately. Neither of us slept that night....I finally "validated" many of his points....appologized for bad timing....he appreciated that...then finally he also appologized for his unkind words and temper. We just politely backed off. The next morning we each worked out separately, had breakfast together....walked all day...visited museums....were polite and walking on eggshells. It was not fun.

That evening we chilled our last bottle of champagne that we'd carted around....had a toast to healing from the bruises and realizing we still had a long ways to go....and that we'd continue to try to make this M work....actually those were his words. Man, I thanked God for intervening....there....cuz I was big-time worried.

H was not as affectionate that day or night....but slowly coming around. I think Jackie mentioned in a post to Nik, about finally adjusting our attitude to appreciate what we have RIGHT now....the goodness....the small steps that are pos. in the R....and STOP trying to want more too quickly and in the end setting ourselves back. I think I am finally making that shift not only in my head, but in my gut.

At home, H told our kids how happy he was on our vac, what a great time we had, etc. We are healing over that last blowout....but neither of us want that to happen again.

We are now planning things for the next few months....wedding back east, my B-day...a get away....a day visiting our son in college....friends/relatives visiting, thanksgiving, and even a vac around X-mas. So.....DUH, isn't it about time Mooka starts enjoying this ride.....and letting the past rest until we are healed much more....which may take a year or 2.... The reality is, that our R and M eroded over the last 4-5 years....just the last 1 1/2 being the most painful.

Sorry this is so long....I really needed to journal, and you are all so safe. Thanks for hanging in there if you've read to this point. And thanks for the continued support during this "piecing" process...God, I am so lucky to be in this position. Cuz I truly do love my H and feel like we have so much potential for growing old together and enjoying the fruits of our lives.

Who knows, I may have the guts one day soon to be the first to say ILY.....I've been holding back.

Later!

Mooka

Mooka,

Quote:

I think Jackie mentioned in a post to Nik, about finally adjusting our attitude to appreciate what we have RIGHT now....the goodness....the small steps that are pos. in the R....and STOP trying to want more too quickly and in the end setting ourselves back. I think I am finally making that shift not only in my head, but in my gut.

I am so struggling with this. I won't use up your space but I will write more about this on my thread. Give me your honest opinion. That's one thing that is so great about this bb, I think we are all so honest and helpful here.

I think it's great how you are both planning trips, etc. together. I would love to be able to do that.

Not expecting too much, too soon is such a hard thing to do. Mooka, you are doing a great job!!

Nik

Well Mooka ... chock this one onto the "Doesn't work" list:
- Absolutely no R talks after drinking a few glasses of wine.

There always bound to be setbacks in any R. Being with someone is a life long experience in learning how to interact with each other. Its when we stop paying attention to the lessons that crop up that we start to get into trouble. Mooka, you are too good a student of DBing to let that happen now.

I take it now I don't have to go over the lessons of the tortoise and the hare.

I'm sure you have heard of sticking the big toe in the water analogy. Well I would say your H has much more that his big toe in the water. I would say he's probably up to his knees.

... but for me I know I have to get above the belly button before I would commit to taking a swim.

I get the sense maybe your H be alike in this fashion. So try not to sweat lack of the ILY at this stage and know that when he does finally say those three little words ... he will be committed to every syllable.

The rest of your news is just wonderful to hear and is truly inspirational ... which leads me to ...

I can't express just how much you have helped me over the last two weeks as CAW transitioned to living in her own place. The way you DBed and handled your seperation has been such an inspiraation for me to follow. I only hope that I will be able to handle it as well as you have. I just could wait for you to come back so you would know how so very much you have had a positive impact on getting me thru these last few weeks.

Thank You so very much!!!!! ... (and I mean every syllable)

'til later,
KAW

Hi Mooka - Welcome back

So much of what you say seems to be a reflection of where I am too.

Quote:

But inside...I was wanting more...more...more. I wanted an ILY...but wouldn't go there first. I wanted him to bring up the old stuff and apologize...but wouldn't ask. I churned and wanted more.....rather than just appreciating what was working, that we were healing....and SLOWLY building trust. Every step of the way I have to remind myself to just "friggin" enjoy what is going well.

I'm trying so hard to keep the ole expectation bar low, but just find the darned uneasiness creeping back when I least expect, and therefore totally unprepared for it.

Will be watching your journey with much interest, Mooka. I can learn so much here. Slowly

KAW, Nik, & Slowly....

Thanks so much for the heartfelt responses on my post. It's so cool

to have these cyber friendships, with such genuine honesty and true caring.

Nik....and Slowly.....the "patient" thing is obviously, perhaps the most important lesson I am learning here. And growing up I was always described as the "patient one" in the family, work, friends....WOW Not near enough when it really matters in the most important relationship (on earth that is!!)

KAW I loved this comment:

Quote:

So try not to sweat lack of the ILY at this stage and know that when he does finally say those three little words ... he will be committed to every syllable.

That really hit the nail on the head. That describes my H....he only does and says what he really means deep inside. He's not about saying/doing things just to make another feel good. (That's why is hurt so deeply when the OW was in the picture

) But you are RIGHT....his behavior is so pos....it's time to just enjoy the ride and take it at it's comfortable, slow and steady speed.

H called last night (out of town, again...) he was fairly cheerful, friendly...slightly warm. WE talked about plans for my B-day in Oct. We're going to our ole stomping ground...out west where we first met, fell in love, college town, got married, had our first child, house, etc. We haven't been there for 16 years! Even might take in the University's football game....which we had season tickets to after we graduated for 4-5 years. He was totally up for that too....and he has 2 free United tickets for us to use.

So, I will take all your advice and try to keep my pace realistic.

THANKS SO MUCH!!

Mooka

Hi Mooka - My birthday is on Oct too, and NG and I are planning to go back and visit friends from 20 years ago too

In fact he asked me what I wanted for my bday, and I'm not sure whether to ask, or to let him decide. Hmmm. Slowly

Hey Slowly....what's the date in Oct? Mine's the 13th.

Just need to rant and air some thoughts here on the BB....just when I think things are going smoothly in my life....

2 things....

#1 - I was gone for the long week-end helping out my 81 yr old Mom with her condo, bills, etc. This is something I do periodically since she's been a widow, along with my sis. Anyway....H was out of town last wk Tue-Fri, I left Fri got home last night...H is gone again until tonight. So, after a nice 2 week vac, we've been apart for over a week....which we've done a lot of over the past several yrs. Anyway...H calls about every other day....not every day like he used to. He asks me to call him on the week-end. I do....we are pleasant together, talking superficial, but pleasant. Anyway....last night d picks me up at the airport and proceeds to tell me that she was worried about her dad (H) Sat night....cuz he went into the city and said he'd be home around 8:30pm...he even mentioned to me on the phone Sun morning that he worked and then spent some time with a female colleague (that he's told me lots about over the past year....she's M, 2 kids, lives in Seattle and works for him....comes here often). She is the one he has confided in about "US"....mind you she is NOT the OW from the past. Since he was/is open with me about her....I've been cool, not really felt any jealously, etc. Well, he didn't get home until 11pm (45 min drive from the city)...and our D was really worried. She had left him 2 VM wondering why he hadn't called, etc. She had called me on the west coast, but my cell was out of range....so I knew nothing about all this.

H told me the next day that D wasn't feeling good, but she was doing ok. He did tell me he saw this WF Sat....again, I was cool.

OK, now.....I am starting to freak a little. Trying oh-so-hard not to let my mind go crazy....thinking about the past with OW and alll his vagueness.....his lying by omition kind of stuff.. He gets in late tonight....hasn't talk with me since Sun morning....

ON our talks over the week-end, tho....he did talk about our plan for my B-day....I got the airline tickets...he said "if that's what I want to do...he will make it fun." Not as supportive than prior conversations. We have plans to go see S at his Frat this Sat....plans for a family wedding the following week-end, friends visiting in early Oct.....etc. So....I should let that Sat night incident go...act "as if"????? I am churning inside, but really don't want to bring any of it up. Is that playing games? Can I pretend? He reads me well when something is bugging me. I don't know. I think my C would say, leave it ALONE....be confident....appreciate what IS happening that is good. Look for the pos. It's so easy when deeply hurt....to read too much into stuff. But it really bugs me that he'd spend Sat night (personal time) with WF and not our D.

#2 - My pap came back a few weeks back with the wrong #s. So tomorrow I go in for a more extentive test/scrape....and I'm beginning to let that worry me. I haven't told anyone, cuz I didn't think it was a big deal. Then my Dr called this morning to go over the exam tomorrow....and said that he got lots of bad cells on the pap. He got me worried. He doesn't have the greatest communication skills, tho. So I've got to keep that in check.

My mind is stressed.....I'm not the calm, easy going Mooka I used to be....yes on the exterior.....but not on the inside.

Just needed a place to air out thoughts. Time to check on all of you.

Let go Mooka....Let GOD!!

Mooka

Holy moly Mooka - mine's the 13th too

How about that

I totally understand how you feel about WF, but just keep in mind that he is telling you about her. For me, I used to be far more insecure and nervous about WFs before NG's A. Now, I know I'm ok, in a strange way, I've relaxed a lot more. Detached even.

Keeping my fingers crossed the smear retest turns out ok. Slowly

Mooka,

Nevanna is going through similar pap issues as you are... you might want to check out her thread for some input she received from some of us who have travelled this path.

Good luck and keeping you in my prayers!

Betsey

Slowly...you too, on the 13th!! Way cool

!

Thanks to you and Betsey for the warm thoughts & prayers....I went in to the Dr. yesterday...called and he took me in, I wanted to get it over with. Well....it looks very good for me....just found a pollup...not a big deal, he thought, and all the other cells appeared normal under his special scope/light. So...already feeling much better.

On the H note....he came home last night (it had been a week)...he was warm, friendly, in good spirits. He was cuddly in bed last night and this morning

...alls well....Mooka is chillin. I am relieved, and am, AGAIN...realizing how easy it is for me to go into a neg. spiral....re: Hs behaviors. Geez....sorry to let myself go there. Sometimes we are our worst enemies....mentally. H was kind, loving...and talking about all our plans the next 2-3 months.

I love this BB....I may be on it the rest of my life....just a great place to vent/air out thoughts and internal issues. And such great support.

THANK YOU!!

Later, Mooka

Good day Mooka,
Glad to hear the good news from the doc.

... and that all is back to norm for Mooka.

... and no need to apologize ... we don't think you're an different from the rest of us. You're bound to have an off day or two every now and again. Just wait it out and most times it will pass. Its when we see a pattern starting to establish that then we need to come up with a solution.

... and whenever you need help with that ... don't be shy ... just air it out here for as long as it takes ... oh boy ... did a picture just pop into my head ...

Could you imagine us still coming to the bb seeking advise in our eighties?!

If we all could be so lucky ... making M's so happy that we still work on them for all those years.

'til later,
KAW

Hey KAW....thanks for the reassurance....and knowing this is such a safe place to let it go. Man oh man....your sound advice to take a few days and let it pass was good!! Cuz...things are going rather smoothly with H. It feels like we are on the same track again.

Quote:

Could you imagine us still coming to the bb seeking advise in our eighties?! If we all could be so lucky ... making M's so happy that we still work on them for all those years.
Quote:

Y'know....I think I can see that in our futures...Funny thought

Well looking forward to a nice week-end. We are going to see our S in college and go to a football game with him, see his frat and have dinner. Should be fun...tho a long drive, 3 hrs each way. Oh well, road trips are good times for conv. Our D will be with us too.

Have a nice week-end all!

Mooka

Hey Mooka,

Thanks for your reply on my thread. Yes, that is the question whether I see something in H or not. Can I email you? What is your email? mine is: nikatnight04@yahoo.com

Nik

HI all...

Just wanted to update and catch up with some of you. Had a nice week-end....went to see S in college, caught the football game, had dinner, talked with the kids about X-mas plans, etc. Sunday...more family time....our D22 is home now fulltime....graduated and start her job in a week. H and I don't have much of our own time...but will when she starts her job.

He was pleasant yesterday....said something curious to our D while I was cutting his hair out on the deck...he said...
"Now this is a realy act of love, watch how your Mom does this"...and he repeated it again. I smiled and said, yeah, I'm pretty good at this, huh?

Now that is the first time he has mentioned the "L" word in regards to me in a long time. He says it often to our kids...but neither of us have mentioned it to each other.

I tried to be affectionate last night in bed....he was more into the movie...so I rolled over and went to sleep. He asked me later if I was ok....I said ya fine.

I need more affection than he gives at times...but I'll continue to be patient on that one. Gotta still build the trust day to day, I guess.

He also said he was coming home at a decent hour tonight...even tho his work collegues are going out to dinner....he said he was passing on that.

We head out of town Fri as a family to the east coast for a wedding...we are all looking forward to seeing his side of the family, haven't seen them all together in 2 yrs.

Well, off for a walk with the dog before my day begins.

Later, Mooka

Hi Mooka - Just checking in, seeing what your birthday plans are

We have a party this Sat - a joint one with an ex classmate who also turns 40 on the 13th. Looking forward to catching up with everyone.

Hope all's well with you.

Slowly

Slowly....yes the plans are already in process....and the countdown to the B-day has started!

My 2 deaarest friends of all friends, from the West coast are here visiting this week-end. We are truely sisters, been very close since we were 20. We all turn 50 this year...and we are all looking great!!! So 30 yrs of friendship.

Anyway....they are here...for a long week-end...and we are having too much fun! My H was with us for dinner the first night...then he is out of town for a day and a half for work. They know all the issues we've had and have been my main supports the past year or so....along with all my DB buds. Anyway....they really see the connection the H and I have rekindled....they sensed his love and respect for me....and flirtacious ways at dinner...and sensitivity. H really has turned the corner...and willing to be with people that KNOW our journey. We don't talk openly with them..in details...but it's understood. My friends were very impressed with H and that he's back on track. That feels really good to have that validated by the ones that know me best.

On the actual date, we are going out to dinner. (?) Then for the long week-end, H and I are going to Oregon....where we first met, fell in love, married, etc...down memory lane. Just the 2 of us. We haven't been there in 16 yrs. The following week-end my sis and her H are coming to visit us from out of town.....the the celebration will be a 3-week one...how lucky am I????

God is working wonders in my life....giving it to Him it the only way to go.

Will now catch up on all of you...

Mooka

Hi Mooka - Reconnection with friends can be such a gift - enjoy!! I'm not sure what NG has planned for me on the 13th... time will tell.

Slowly

Hey Mooka!!

I'm just wondering whatever happened...did you ever get any apology for his past behaviors???and does it matter to you??
My H seems to be trying to erase all that happened and I am still reeling.....an apology would be nice but what I really want is acknowlement for his having been sooooo disrespectful of me and callous towards me. I don't think I will ever get it. He says share my feelings but when I do start to tell him how I feel he shuts me down saying I am immature and regressive( that's what I get for marrying a Ph.D.)He seems to only focus on whatever his feeling were at the time and wants to ignore even those.

iF YOU DID GET SOMETIME OF ACKNOWLEDGMENT, what did it do for you?
Thanks!
I miss everyone here on the bb!!
Trish (Cycler 28)

cycler28...

You know...I have not gotten an "official" apology for Hs past behaviors/treatment toward me when he was in the "ALIEN" mode. He did say he never wanted to hurt me again like he had this past year....that was last May, right around when he started pursuing me again. For a while....it was really bugging me...even made an issue of it at the end of our vac in Sept...which put him on the defensive and caused another blow-out. Then, something someone said here on the BB opened my mind up some

(can't remember who

)...the jist being....DO NOT pressure them for the apology or words....let them come around at their own timeframe. Just pay attention to their behavior,, actions, efforts in working on the M and R. Well, DUH....my H is totally there in his actions toward me. No doubts at all in my mind....each week he is warmer, more considerate, affectionate, more communicative, making future plans, travel ideas, retirement dreams....all of the above. No ILYs yet....but I feel even that is very close. So....I'm a chillin' on the major apology.... Actions speak louder than words.

I've got a peace about it now....and my love bank is filling up. And I am trying to keep his full too. It's all good....it took a while to get into the ugly hole...so it will take a while to get up to the mountain top.

I have thought long and hard, and don't feel that I am denying myself this....I am ok.

BTW....had a wonderful week-end with my 2 best friends here....and they felt the connection with me and H. They were so happy for us. We had a long talk one night, and started reviewing the last year's events....my H, me and one of the gf. It was such a warm, lving talk....and H said some kind things to her about me....my strength in character to be patient with his need to sort his stuff out....he also again, acknowledged the pain he put me through. It was the first time he opened up with anyone except me on our R. It was like a counseling session. Then he and I have talked since....we are turning another corner.

We are going away this week-end for my b-day....a long week-end to our ole stomping grounds on the west coast...where we first met, fell in love, got married. Can't wait.

Time to catch up on all of you.

Mooka
Let go....let GOD

Happy Birthday

Haven't been around much, but couldn't miss sayin...

HAPPY BIRTHDAY !!!

'til later,
KAW

Happy B Day!! Mooka

So glad to hear about your husband opening up over the weekend!! How wonderful for both of you.

I KNOW your are right to focus on the positive and look for the actions and not the words......

My H's actions have also been relatively loving(keeping in mind that it's only been four weeks since I found out about the Other women( last year) He's not been overly attentive, but still he does appear to be truely trying.

Without being able to talk about it I get very little to go on,all I can come up for myself right now is "Time will tell" which means I'm gonna be walking on eggshells for a LONG time.Ugh!

My problem: I keep thinking it's just a front. That the nicer he is the worse things really are!! Crazy huh.( I am by nature an overly trusting person and I HATE this feeling paranoid).

Anyways, I do feel a bit better when I concentrate on what he appears to be focusing on, which is the future and not the past....

Big Hug today!
Trish

Mooka,
Back to the apology thing for a moment if I may.....

Something I have come to find in the last few days of lurking on the board and reflecting.....

Sometimes we forget WE are NOT the ONLY ones who need healing.

The WAS also needs to feel reassured that they are still loved even and especially after their horrendous behaviour.

Yes, we still love them, even though it hurt.

Yes, we are going to stay with them and not abandon them, even though they might feel they don't deserve it.

Yes, we have changed but so have they...and we've noticed.

Yes, they lied but they can be trusted again....miraculous isn't it.

Please pardon, this is taken from someone else here on the boards:
" I am not the only one in my marriage who yearns to heal and wonders how to forgive myself."

So maybe getting to "I'm sorry", seems like such an inadequate thing to get to...

Maybe they realize it's better to SHOW that the WAS is sorry by "DOING" things to show that they have changed and moved past the past.
Just a thought'

Trish

Trish..

Your insights are very helpful for me. You are so right....

Quote:

Sometimes we forget WE are NOT the ONLY ones who need healing.

The WAS also needs to feel reassured that they are still loved even and especially after their horrendous behaviour.

Yes, we still love them, even though it hurt.

This really helps me to think "outside" of myself.....our own past hurt, can really slow us down.

His behavior is the key.....and it's very steady.....

Now to catch up on the news since my B-day.

Well, my H really came through.....a homemade card, with a poem and an "I LOVE YOU" in the poem.....diamond earrings, and a nice homecooked meal. We had a great week-end away....back to our ole stomping grounds where we met, went to college, fell in love, got married, had our first child....too much fun.. It had been over 16 yrs since we had been there.

He still has moments of stress....usually triggered by work pressures...and we have our mis-communications....but are both remedying them quickly.

I am thanking God daily for the work that is going on in our home. Man....it's been quite a year.

I will be starting new post....soon. We are no longer in neutral....we are steady into at least 3rd gear!....Looking forward to each new step. It still takes a lot of work and concentration, no to slip into old habits....I no longer want to take any or all of this for granted, and get sloppy in nurturing the R. I am still careful not ot pressure.....not to push too hard. The ILY's are starting....2 so far.....I'm still letting him pursue that....

Time to catch up with all of you.

Mooka

Not a lot new to report in....just wanted to bump up a bit.

My H has been out of the country for the past 4 days for business. Got one simple, but kind email. He's not too mushy...yet. I had a bad dream the other night....that H moved out again. So I know my head/heart still has a lot of healing to take place. He comes home today....

Have been keeping busy with work, daughter, a few friends...and projects. H and I have spent a lot of time together the past 2 months.....lots of time. So maybe this 4 day break, with no contact is good for both.

Gotta keep working on me. I am exercisng, reading, and trying to keep in a forward direction. I am helping out a friend in pain, from her D....and trying to give her strength.

We are planning family fun around the up-coming holidays....that's a good sign.

Later, Mooka

Mooka,

I love hearing your great news!! Looks like you will have many things to be thankful for this thanksgiving!!!

How old is your D? How is she doing, now that you and your H are piecing so well?

Happy Halloween!!!

Nicole

Just a quick update...

No real big changes for us...we are going through the days and weeks, both working quite a bit...having friends and relavtives visiting. We had some miscommunications this week, it seems when I start to observe too closely, and try to read into stuff, I no long am my happy-go-lucky-positive self. I start withdrawing and walking on eggshells to respond to him more sensitively. Well, that's when our communication seems to break down. Duh...Mooka...let that go...be yourself. Sometimes I am my worst enemy.

I am starting to realize that my LL is physical touch, and I'm not getting enough at random time....y'know a peck here and hug there....just during our ML time...

, which I love, but I need it other times....just to feel connected. I think I will be more upfront with him on that. I've wanted him to pursue me there...and figure it out on his own. But, no....he responds to me, but I initiate....and I will just have to TELL him I need him to think of it. I'm not very good at being direct.....that is one of my issues to work on.

Just rambling here....sorry....he left for work on ggod terms this morning...the last 2 being a little tense. So we plan to have some quality time this week-end to re-connect.

Am slowly cathing up with some of you.

Keeping God at my forefront.....that is a good daily ritual for me.

Mooka

Glad to hear things are continuing well on your front.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Livnlearn

Hi all...

Been a while, i know....been busy with relatives visiting over Thanksgiving....helping my Mom out....(elderly)...etc.

Just caught up on KAW....GREAT updates on his sitch! He's one strong, wise man.

My sitch has taken a turn this past Monday. I was out of town helping my Mom in her home for the week-end....talking with H each day, idle chatter, catching up on the homefront...etc. He would end each call with"take care"...blah, he cannot say ILY....tho he does on a daily basis with our kids.

So in my heart, I feel that we still have a long ways to go. Of course I don't say it either....but the few times we have said it to each other this past fall....I am the first to initiate it. I'm done with that!

Then....this is where our R got ugly....he picked me up at the airport Mon night....late flight. I walked outside with my bags where he was parked....he gets out of the car and starts yelling at me..."why didn't you answer your cell?" "I've called 4 times, you knew I would want to touch base....blah , blah, blah..." I was shocked! Stunned, actually. I threw my bags in the car....and said, "I did have my cell on the entire time....must not have had reception in baggage claim....I had no idea" He didin't buy it. He said he always has reception.....that I was a poor commmunicator....that is always our problem.

I mean he was a monster....I did not deserve that....

So on the way home...I proceeded to tell him.....sarcastically...."F-me...for NOT holding the cell in my hand full time....while waiting for the bags. What could I be thinking?" F-me for NOT thinking the way he thinks....that we must be 2 different people....go figure.

We were silent the enitre ride home. I have been cool for 2 days.....just basic info to get through the day....logistics. No physical contact, what-so-ever. D22, at home...has no idea. We are just being polite.

This am, while he made comments about how bad things are at work for him.....he is really miserable with all the politics and changes....almost want to walk away from it all. I validated, and said.."he was putting up with a lot of sh....that they are really putting him through it right now...and I can see how he wants to throw in the towel. He also said...".makes me think about our sitch Monday night....and if we are back to square one. Back to where we were a year ago." I decided NOT to react to that comment, for fear of saying something I might regret. But in my heart, I have been wondering myself. I have been wondering about my R with H as of late....I deserve much more respect...to think he can talk/yell at me like that.....unforgiveable!!!

No one has the right to behave that way toward me. Do I really want H in my life....does he even really love me? I have been working so hard...and we have progressed in many ways....but JEEZ....I am still so dissatisfied with the min-moderate committment from H. He is not trying hard enough, IMHO. I want more....more in a R.....I deserve more. He has never, yet, fully apologized for his past behaviour. What's that about? Some of yo folks here on BB, said it may take months or years...

Right now I want to drop the rope. To give up.....to say things directly. To confront. I know that in the past...tho....I overreaact...say things I later regret. I know I'm going on and on here....sorry. Journalling here might help me sort this out.

We have a family vac planned for a week at X-mas in the Caribbean.....

I'm just totally frustrated....holding tons in.....and trying to figure out what to do with it all. Time to go back to the books for guidance, I guess.

Thanks for letting me ramble. Too long I know.

Mooka

Hey Mooka, I decided to lurk today and I see this. OK, from an outsider looking in....First, give it a few days. I ALWAYS overreact when I blurt out my feelings without thoroughly thinking things thru. A day or 2 will give you more insite into how to proceed.

Looking on the positive side, it looks like your H was worried and frustrated and spoke before he thought it thru. You don't deserve to be spoken to like that, that is true but try to give him the benefit of the doubt if you can.

You have a great trip planned and I would want to do everything possible to make that trip FABULOUS!!

So, Can you talk to him or email him your feelings without him getting defensive? It's important for you to not bottle things up and it's important for him to not get defensive. Take the high road even if it means you have to apologize first. For the record you did nothing wrong.

Let me know how things go. What is your H's LL again? I'm like you, mine is now physical touch.

NIK

Hi Mooka

Something resonated with me when I read about the blow up. If you look at my thread, which has just been locked, you'll see that something similar happened with me. I was away for the weekend, and when I got D to call her Dad for a chat and the cell phone reception was bad, H asked for the phone to be passed to me and really let fly. He was obnoxious. I just calmly told him that I couldn't continue to be spoken to like that and disconnected. Didn't get back to him at all. Got D to call him the Sunday night when we returned home. I found two horrible emails waiting for me. I didn't respond to them. The next day, H calls and apologises for the way he behaved.

I'm not saying I wasn't upset, I was hopping mad, just didn't have a go at H in any way.

I have been thinking that I should be the same way with D too. She has a rudeness and attitude problem when dealing with me, intermittently. Each time it happens I get mad, lecture, shout, punish etc. I think next time I will just walk away and refuse to deal with whatever it is she is saying or wants. Just as simple as that. She might get the message faster or better. Clearly 'reacting' each time is not getting me anywhere. And as you say, (or was it Nik?

) when we open our mouths at these moments, we only pour petrol on the flames and say things we regret. My D feels justified in feeling angry at my return 'bad behaviour'. A dangerous tunnel!!

And really, this sort of outburst is SO much to do with THEIR frame of mind and not ours, why do we feel the need to react? We need to distance ourselves and quit taking it personally. Perhaps validate by saying, "Boy, you really are mad!", or saying absolutely nothing at all.

Hang in there! Buckets of validation about H's difficult work situation should also get him feeling as if you are on his side.

Livnlearn

Mooka -
H was that desperate to talk to you that he called 4 times and had a tantrum about it, and you respond by being even more distant? What would have happened if you'd responded instead "oh, poor baby, I missed you too!!! Darn that cell phone! Give me a kiss!"

Sounds to me like he's stressed at work and just really needed to see you, and felt rejected when you didn't answer the phone - and now probably feels more rejected.

Ellie

Nik, LnL, and Ellie....

I do need your feedback so very much. Thank you

Thank you

!!!

One of my main problems is being defensive....and taking things personally. Sooooo your thoughts, outside perspectives, and reminders that maybe he did miss me....have settled in my heart. H was a bit more pleasant last night after work....he had a fairly good day. Time and doing nothing is a good approach for me when in doubt.

I mentioned that when the pressure was off this week, perhaps we could have some quality time to talk when we weren't dealing with a heated issue. That with all the company, his work pressures, and me being gone for 4 days...we were kind of out of sinc. He was fine with that. Gave me a peck on the cheek and went off to work. No physical contact other than that.

Nik my H's LL is quality time/discussion.....so I've got to make that a priority and fill up his love bank. Mine is feeling low, so I've got to dig deep.

Thanks for your insights.....already feeling much better.

Mooka

Mooka,

My 2nd LL is quality time. I wish I was M to someone with the quality time as a LL. For my WAS quality time was dead last. It would do wonders to just suggest doing something with your H then. A movie? dinner? show? Something to look forward to is very important.

I totally agree about just waiting and not doing or saying anything when in doubt. Good for you!

Nik

Hi Nik...

Just a bit of an update.....on a more positive note.

H came home last night....and was much more chatty...friendly (tho not actually warm and cozy). But non-the-less kind and appreciative of dinner, etc. Then this morning, while he was on the tread and I was drinking my coffee....he asked if I wanted to talk some. I said, yes.....

Long story short....we both talked about the airport pick-up incident...our separate perspectives...frustrations, etc. Then I suggested that we talk more regualarily about "us" and our R, when there isn't an issue or problem to resolve....to communicate better....so we don't slip into old habits. He agreed....said he realizes we both fall into taking each other for granted, make assumptions, and get off track. Anyway....overall...I listened, validated....let him go on and on about his work pressures...he acknowledged my pressures at home, work, family....and we both agreed to try to put ourselves in each other's shoes more often. It was good. Then just before he left for work, I mentioned the book LOve Languages.....I'd never told him about it. He kind of rolled his eyes....but after hearing my brief summary of the book and analyzing his and my LL...he came over and gave me a big bear hug (mine is physicl touch)....and I joked and said.....I won't be crabby and I'll be more giving....if I get fed with this more often. It fills me up. He smiled and kissed me. So, in a way...it was good input...but I lightened it up, so he could hear it.

Thanks for letting me go here and all your supportive feedback.....I know this BB gives me guidance to think more clearly and get on track...when I start slip-sliding.

That's all for now. I feel blessed.

Mooka

Mooka,

That is so great that NOW your H knows your LL. He definately seemed to respond well to you telling him your needs. I think that is a HUGE step in the right direction.

I can see so often how we love others in OUR LL not theirs until we read the book or like you did gave your H a good summary!