so I guess I belong in piecing now for real!
my thread in newcomers My husband still isn't "in love" with me, but moved home because separation didn't really do for him what he thought it would (give him time away from me to think and figure out why he was so unhappy). He still doesn't feel "connected" to me, but feels that our relationship is going well because we're taking time to do things together and time to do things for ourselves.
We plan to continue this, continue doing dialogue questions from retrouvaille, and stay active in the retrouvaille program. For now, he's not too interested in going back to counseling. I'm not sure how I feel about it. On one hand, it didn't really help us too much. On the other hand, I don't want to drift along like this forever.
There is a family reunion on my side of the family in August, and every time I brought up buying plane tickets, dh was very non-committal. I finally asked him if it was because he didn't really want to go or what? He said that it wasn't that he didn't want to go, but he feels uncomfortable with that side of my family in the first place (feels intellectually intimidated --as do I sometimes!) and if we were still separated, he'd feel even more awkward.
So....now we're not separated. How long should I wait before I bring up buying the tickets? I'm one of those people who likes to have everything planned and I don't want to wait too much longer, but I definitely don't want to pressure him!
Another question...dh and I are total conflict-avoiders. We figure this has to be a problem, yet several people who've been happily married for 25+ years have assured me they are exactly the same way. Do you think no conflict=no passion? I worry that this is part of the reason dh and I don't feel really connected, yet I can't manufacture conflict! The only real problem I have with him is that I do 90% of the housework stuff and he claims to have no problems with anything about me.
Retrouvaille gave us a great framework in which to resolve conflicts, but every time we look at the list of possible conflicts, we can't come up with anything we really feel strongly enough to "fight" about. Unless we're both in total denial. That's possible I suppose since we hate conflict so much. I'm so confused!
First I'd like to congratulate you on having H home. But remember you're still in the DB mode. You can't stop just coz he came home. You probably still have issues to resolve.
As for the conflict, I'm not sure. My H and I really didn't have any conflict either except for petty things like how I didn't like the way he folded laundry or whatever. Now think...does he spend a lot, too thrifty, stay up too late, drink a bit excessively on occasion, watch too much sports? There's probably something there you just have to dig a little deeper and think about it.
So, I take it you've been to retrouvaille. Was it recent? I've thought about it but since we are S, I didn't think it would have the same impact on us as someone who is "thinking" about it.
As for the plane tickets, goes back to my comment above that you are still DBing. Why not check out the info and get the data about the tickets and then propose to H that you have the price and dates at X and he has X # of days to get back to you so you can "close the deal". Then, order the tickets w/or w/out him. Hey, it's not really like it's his decision to stop you. And you have to respect his decision to stay home. So, he has issues w/your family, (seems like a conflict here), there's no reason to force it. As you have learned, you need to let WAS figure some of this out on his own. If he feels intimidated, he could always change the subject or become educated on a specific topic to feel more intellectual. I can understand his position but again it's that unconditional love thing to me. Good luck........
Hey mom, great position to be in. Now you can DB 24-7.
Congratulations, and keep up the good work. Remember, only believe 1/2 of what he says. Maybe he is saving face by saying it was no good to separate anyway. (Or maybe he really believes it.) What matters is that he is home.
Quote:
So, I take it you've been to retrouvaille. Was it recent? I've thought about it but since we are S, I didn't think it would have the same impact on us as someone who is "thinking" about it.
He dropped the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" bomb in mid January, moved out Feb 7, and we went to retrouvaille the last weekend in Feb. It really helped us reconnect and we were closer and felt more intimate with each other by the end of that weekend than we'd felt in years. I think retrou only works well if both of you go into it willingly and with open minds. It worked wonders for us. We'd be far down the road toward divorce -- or still completely foundering around -- if we hadn't gone.
Thanks for the advice. The trip came up last night and he's totally talking as though he's going now 
So I guess I don't have to dwell on that any longer!
Hi Mom - Welcome to piecing - and GREAT news about H moving back
I'd like to echo Rottz's comments - Alien is still probably in residence, to approach with caution at all times. Slowly
mom2two,
First: Congratulations !!! on your husband moving back.
Second: Conflict avoiders I've found to have more troubles in marriage than those who openly conflict. Briefly, my wife is a conflict avoider whose family did not talk about personal items. So, she tends to just stew and not bring up important things. This is terrible for me and is like driving without headlights or lines painted anywhere on the road.
A moderate amount of conflict is a good thing. An example: my wife and I had probably one significant argument in the last several years. However, in large part due to her conflict avoidance, she just filed for divorce. (!?!?!) Where's the middle ground in that? So, please add some conflict / negotiation / being willing to discuss things.
Having no arguments can seem great (I thought so) but can also mean things are horrible. Without some discussion or initiation by either party, how can anyone really navigate such waters?
I do try and bring things up if I feel strongly about them. I think our problem is that the things that bug us are often things we tend to think aren't important enough to mention. At least that's what dh claims and I feel mostly the same way.
I think I mainly need to make sure I'm communicating and not assuming. For example, I just started riding a bike again after many years and am enjoying it a lot. I assume my dh wouldn't be interested in joining me for a ride (and I'm 99% sure he'd say he wasn't) BUT I haven't even asked him. I think that sort of thing happens a lot in our marriage.
I am also guilty of assuming. So, ask. I have found that several times when I have assumed H feels a certain way, I am either WAY wrong, or find that he is partially amenable to the suggestion.
Give it a shot. Who knows.
Since dh moved home last Friday, things have been going so well! In spite of the fact that he's been very sick (finally went to the urgent care center last night and found out he has a sinus infection) he was Mr. Helpful Husband all weekend, doing dishes, laundry, child care, asking what I needed him to do, being very affectionate, etc. On Sunday night he asked if I wanted to play cards after dinner instead of just plunking down in front of a DVD as he usually would have. This morning he saw that I was running late and got our 19-month-old dressed and gave her breakfast without me asking him to! I made sure to thank him for everything -- I think he's really trying to reassure me. It's lovely anyway.
Wow -- it's been quite a while. Things are going all right for dh and me. We're going to be an "angel couple" for retrouvaille in September. He still hasn't said "ILY", and I'm beginning to wonder how long I can live in a state of limbo. Every time he's the slightest big withdrawn or quiet, I start to worry. I have discussed it with him and he says he's "not planning on leaving", but I'm pretty sure he wasn't planning on it last time either!
Hiya Mom,
It sounds like things are going really well, but you still need to hear those 3 little words.
In my case, there wasn't any big announcement.
It was just a lot of little positives.
I hope that helps!
Hugs!
Yes PIB, it definitely helps!
It starts with little steps. It took my H forever, and you really have to give credit to H being an "angel couple". That is a commitment to the institution, and I'm told by the angel couple that worked on my retro weekend, it causes more dialogue to start. I encourage you to stay with the program and be in it for the long haul.
Thanks Kelli -- you replied on my 40th birthday!
I've been hit by a thunderbolt from above today. I was discussing my marriage with a coworker and telling her how unhappy and disatisfied I am these days. She said, "Well, how could you not be? You need a partner -- someone who loves you unconditionally and is your biggest fan -- your biggest cheerleader. You don't need someone you can't count on". We went on to talk about why I'm so unhappy -- dh doesn't do his share at home, he is reluctant to join the family in any outings, rarely plans anything, etc. She said that it sounds almost as though we're in a codependent relationship -- I enable him.
DUH!! I realized that I have never really, truly dropped the rope and started treating him like a grownup who is responsible for his own happiness. Instead, I'm constantly checking -- trying to push him to have fun with his friends, asking him to do chores, doing them myself when I can't stand it anymore and feeling resentful about it -- treating him like one of my children rather than a spouse. Okay, okay -- I know people (Betsey in particular) TRIED to tell me to quit doing this, but somehow I never quite got it. Do you think it's too late?
Hi Mom,
Happy Belated 40th!!!
IT'S NEVER TOO LATE!!! START NOW!!! JUST DO IT!!! GO FOR IT!!!
Congratulations on getting "the click!"
That's my insight for the day.
karen812
Hi Mom,
It's never to late!.
Repeat after me. My name is Mom2Two and I'm a controloholic.... we should have a support group.
Hearing about your discussion with co-worker hit way too close to home for me. When I finally learned to let go of the rope, many of those things began to change. H seems to appreciate me more now that I do less! It's a revelation for sure. I still have little epiphanies when I realize something I think is very innocent or helpful is actually controlling.
Now your assignment is to really examine how much of your automatic behavior is actually controlling. Really dig deep. But, you can also look forward to a very liberating feeling when you start really, really dropping the rope.
In4Ride
It's never too late. You can always start fresh. Just do it. Happy Birthday!
Thanks ladies. I will make a serious attempt to try! Maybe it's already working -- dh has done the dishes 3 days in a row now. That's supposed to be "his chore" but I do it a lot because it drives me nuts to have dirty dishes all over the kitchen and he only does them when he feels like it.
I'm feeling very odd these days about my marriage. I am quite restless and unhappy. I deserve and want a husband who is a true partner -- someone who loves me unconditionally, is my biggest supporter and cheerleader, and someone who is a "there" as an equal.
Instead I have someone who doesn't think he's in love with me, and a husband who reluctantly, if at all, participates in family activities. I want a husband who will willingly go places with us -- the zoo, the farmer's market, the pumpkin patch, church -- without me feeling as though I'm dragging him along and he's hating every minute. I guess I feel as though it's a catch-22. He should be true to himself and not do things he hates, but yet I do things with/for him and the kids that aren't necessarily exciting or fun to me. Isn't making that sacrifice part of being a family?
My dh rarely does his share around the house, having zero interest in keeping a nice house or yard. Even things like taking the trash out, minimal grass cutting, and changing light bulbs go undone because he has a very lazy nature and would rather just sit around. I can't do everything and it's stressing me out all the time. I HATE having a straggly yard and dirty, messy house, but I work full-time and have two young kids. I NEED someone who does his share.
This issue has come up again and again and again and again in our marriage and he usually has the same response. "I'll try harder" or "This is me -- you knew what I was like when you married me". Nothing ever changes.
I guess I'm wondering just how long I can work on my marriage when I'm unhappy and wondering if it's even worth it. I'm probably rambling here, so I'll stop
Hey Mom,
Okay, now you've brought some helpful tidbits to the surface and I'm going to be asking some questions.
What would happen if you were to drop the rope and take on those family activities without inviting him along? In other words, to act AS IF you are content with taking responsbility for yourself and the kids and see how the pendulum will swing?
It seems as though he is still feeling resentful. If that is true, what do you think are the causes for this?
Just something to consider...
Betsey
Mom, I have been reading about how difficult "child-centered" marriages can be. Just from your post, it seems like you may be in the child-centered place. A lot of us are. Specifically, read Dr. Shirley Glass' great book "Not Just Friends" for more info.
Are you making time for your R? Is your H's reaction to all the family events due to wanting more time with you, alone? Does he have any say in where and when the family goes places?
Maybe his LL is Quality Time...with you.
My 2 cents,
MicheleTW
Thanks MicheleTW -- I will check out the book. I think you are right that his LL is quality time. I will say that yes, it's true that we definitely don't spend enough time on us. I think that really came home to me in September when we were an "angel couple" at a retrouvaille weekend. Prior to the weekend, I was feeling so restless and unhappy -- disconnected from dh. By Sunday night we were feeling so close and intimate. We agreed on the need to keep up with our dialoguing and date nights. BUT we haven't done it! We've only dialogued a couple of times in the past month and I don't think we've had a single date night.
It is very frustrating, but it's very difficult. DH doesn't have a say in where and when the family goes places because he doesn't have any interest in going anywhere or doing anything. If I suggest a date night for us he'll agree amiably -- as long as I plan where we're going, what we're doing, and line up a babysitter. Well, I'm sick of being the person responsible for all of it, so I don't do it very often.
BTW, on our retro weekend, dh was signing his letters "I love you" by Sunday afternoon. I was more disturbed than happy, and when he started saying "ILY" again the following week, I wasn't very enthusiastic in my replies to him. The next weekend I confessed to him my feelings that I was afraid he was only saying it because I had shared with him how ready I was to throw in the towel on our marriage. He didn't rush to reassure me, but did say that he had noticed my lukewarm reception and thought perhaps he had waited too long to say it again and that I didn't feel as though I loved him anymore. I told him that no, I do love him, but was just gun-shy, so to speak. So ever since we've been saying ILY again to each other, but I still don't trust that his feelings are true.
This is ending up to be a depressing post, when it should be a happier one. Sigh. Okay, okay, I will DEFINITELY make date night a SACRED, at LEAST once-a-month occasion, and FORCE myself to make more time alone with dh. It's not that it's a big sacrifice -- I just have so many demands on my time, that it seems like one sometimes. That's so pitiful.
Hey, Mom2two,
What if you started making manageable lists like some of us do in Piecing - goals for doing DH's LLs, and how you fulfilled each one... It seems unmanageable to find time to do all these things, until you write them down and realize that doing at least 1 of each LL a day isn't all that difficult to manage on a daily basis.
What if you focused on filling DH's love tank, instead of focusing on his filling yours, and letting him step up to the plate on his own time? I am learning the hard way that when I am not feeling fulfilled, it is usually because I have stopped fulfilling S. because I am too busy whining!
It's so hard to trust after they come back - believe me, I know. I struggle with trusting on an hourly basis, and usually find myself in some pretty ridiculous situations based on my assumptions. But allow DH to show you - you have to give him room to in order for him to do that.
Jennifer
Okay Jennifer -- I will make it a point to make sure I do at least one thing a day -- and concentrate more on filling dh's tank. thanks!!
Great advice. What you give is what you get, and being selfless (filling spouse's tank without asking for return) is something I know I don't do enough of. When I do, I do get the feedback I'm usually looking for.
Well, things are going very well for us! We just finished being an angel couple at a retrouvaille weekend (www.retrouvaille.com) for the second time. What an incredible program it is!!
At home things are much improved, with me being more willing to come right out and ask dh to do chores instead of hinting and being mad he doesn't do them. One of the presenting couples last weekend made me realize that when I don't sit still with dh and relax but instead buzz around doing things, I'm really trying to guilt him into helping me. It doesn't work, I get mad, and dh feels lonely that I never relax with him. DUH! So this week he has done more around the house following our weekend than he has in months!
We've been dating a lot over the past several months, and I *almost* feel as though he really, truly loves me again and isn't just saying it. He reiterated this past weekend that he does love me, he isn't just saying it, and he's in this marriage forever. I can't quite bring myself to believe it 100% but I'm getting there.
Hi Mom - What a wonderful update, I'm so happy for you. And yes, I plan to heed your advise and just ask in plain words for help around the house.
Slowly
Thanks slowly! Believe me, it's taken a loooooong time for me to learn to simply ASK for what I want -- help with chores, sex, a date, a gift...if I ask, it usually magically happens!
Hi mom2two!
Hope all is still going well for you! You've done a fantastic job!!