I have needed to take a break from the boards but I have to report...things are going great.
My old R is dead and gone, but something new and improved is growing stronger every day. As you all know, Wolfie was regretful, guilty, and ashamed, but was not terribly understanding about the after-effects of his infidelity and was practically demanding that I put it all in a box and never bring it up again.
That doesn't work for me. The healing process will take a long time--and I am a process kind of person. Suppressing my stuff was coming out in bad ways, including nightmares.
One day on TV, some show was based on updates on people 5 years after the Columbine tragedy. After weeks of silence on the issue, I told him that the infidelity had affected me in a similar way to how those survivors were affected. I fully described the whole process of healing--including the triggers, the obsessions, the emotional rollercoaster, the anxiety and fear that it may still be going on or will happen again...everything.
I said that the work I had been doing in counseling was to work on all of those PTSD symptoms, so it's not like I'm choosing to stay stuck, but I didn't think reconcilliation was going to work if I have to suppress everything for HIS comfort. I said that if he didn't have the patience or compassion to make the transition from the wounder to the healer...then I didn't think reconcilliation would work.
I sat there and waited for him to blow up...but instead he broke down sobbing. He said he "gets it now" and was "so sorry that he had been pushing me to heal faster because he was still being self-centered". Wow!
We have only had a few brief-but-in-depth R talks since then, but something has definately shifted. I don't think he could be more sweet and considerate. He's pro-active about bringing up any doubts and fears he thinks I may be dealing with. If I am too quiet for his comfort...he double-checks to make sure that I'm not feeling sad or angry or whatever. Once, when I was feeling a bit of anger over something I was triggered into remembering about the infidelity, I really kept it to myself. He noticed and pretty much hounded me until I would talk about it. When I did talk about it, he acknowledged that I should be angry and that he was very sorry.
THIS is what I have needed all along. It has been 15 months, but now Wolfie is acting like he's REMORSEFUL. Instead of avoiding conflict, he's being pro-active.
For me, the result has been finally being able to start relaxing and let go of a lot of things. I have been very vocal about expressing my appreciation when he has been extra-sweet or concerned or affectionate. I've let him know how much it helps me not to feel like I'm struggeling alone, but healing together.
He really appreciates the appreciation & keeps doing more of it. I NEVER expected this of him, and it has been bringing us so much closer. There is a true intimacy between us now that he has kept walls up against for a long, long time.
During the first year of DBing, it took a lot of energy to focus on getting our relationship back to a stable place. I denied a lot of my own needs for the sake of saving the relationship. I had been denying my own needs for years before the A.
It is so freaking ironic that it took this horrid, god-awful experience to get to where we are today, but that's the truth.
I'm excited to see where we go from here. I'm relieved to hear Wolfie tell me that if we ever go through a rough spot again, that he would fight for our R instead of run from it.
Wow!!!
This is where i want to be!! I think that we are getting there, slowly but surely. I too want a new R, no way i want the old one back!!!
I'm very happy for you and i'm sure that things will continue for you!!!!
Take care
Lee
Oh Tal,
I'm so happy for you. What a wonderful testimony to your R, your strength and Wolfie's commitment.
How's the "Success Story" post coming along?
Sage
Tal,
That is so great! He has really stepped up to the plate.
It sounds like his efforts to heal you may also be the key to healing himself!
Wonderful news!
Hugs!
Tal
You really don't know me....but I've lurked around your posts for months. Thanks for sharing this significant chapter on your healing process. It really gives the rest of us continued hope. This IS a long process....Your openness with your H and courage is the key.
Just wanted to thank you from a distant, but sincere fellow BB friend.
Mooka
TAL,
What a wonderful post, thank you for sharing Wolfie's wake up because so many of our friends here need to know that everyone "wakes" up as a result of many different things. Each of our once WASes, has to come to their own "moment" of realization in their own way and once they do...that's when the REAL healing begins for us and for them too.
I completely understand your ability to now lay some ghosts to rest as I have just about buried all of the dead issues of my H's As and MLC.
Like you and Wolfie, my H and I are on a completely different plane now, I've even noticed that my H writes himself little sticky notes to remind himself to thank me for doing little things. I saw one on his cell phone Sunday morning that said, "thank (T2) for doing all the laundry"....so he IS trying very hard to be a better man.
You said:
Quote:
It is so freaking ironic that it took this horrid, god-awful experience to get to where we are today
and I couldn't agree more. As absolutely earth shattering as this nightmare was...it appears that since we have been fortunate enough to survive it...that for the first time in all our years together, NOW, we are finally really a married couple in heart, not just on paper.
T2
Hi Tal,
Thanks for posting this, was just thinking about you yesterday and wondering what you were up to.
I'm deciding it's going to be a long road and the patience, patience and more patience will be needed throughout.
Cathy
HI Tal,
Just seeing yout thread title put a smile on my face!! You have come a long way baby!!! And I am so happy that Wolfie gets it and is now on the same page as you!!!!!
You have been a tremendous support during this past year!!! I apprecaite all your advice and posts!
Funny, just when I think I am done with my H, I read your story and gotta wonder---but I'm not so sure I could get past the infidelity--actually I don't think H could--
and I think key factor--
last week he admitted if given the chance again--he would do it again...have the A!!! So that is like a total warning--nope can't get back with him no matter what--it would be like an open invitation for this to happen again!
Anyway, enough about me--it is all on my thread anyway--
but I am sooooooooooo happy for you! Some sitches are made to make it--and yours is one of them!
Take Care
Hey guys! Thanks for all the good wishes. Here's another indication of a whole new chapter: our youngest just got his driver's licence today! Wolfie called from the DMV and described the blow-by-blow of the parallel parking test. So funny. One more year and the youngest will be out of high school.
I KNEW there was going to be a day I was glad I had kids so young! LOLOL! I'm beginning to look around the house and plan for the not-to-distant future when it's not full of messy teenagers.
Not quite sure how to say it, but ever since you & Wolfie played that prank on OW, followed by an amazing level of open communication at critical junctures, I had a sense that you are well on your way of rebuilding the bond you seek and it will last.
I second Sage's suggestion ... you deserve a place in the success stories "Hall of Fame".
'til later,
KAW
Well, I'm holding out for a two years past bomb-day to write a full blown success story.
Mothers' Day was ok. I would have been bummed if it had all been about the boys (the oldest didn't even call to say "Happy Moms' Day)!
Wolfie did give me a card. Not exactly a MD card, I think he found the cards for people that cheated on their spouse section--who knew they had a card for ALL occassions!
Anyway, the best part was what he wrote because it was a sincere apology and a promise never to break my heart again. It certainly took a good long while for him to get out of his own self-centered mindset before, during, and after the A.
I did have a rough time last week. I've gotten used to the triggers, but I think I had a full-blown punch in the gut flashback. He was getting ready for bed as I was getting ready for work. Suddenly, it hit me--all of those months that he had waited for me to leave for work so he could talk on the phone with OW. It didn't feel like a bad memory, it felt like a full-on anxiety attack out of nowhere. It really knocked the wind out of me & I had to go throw up. It took a couple of days for me to talk about it because the experience was so intense.
Ick--infidelity, the gift that keeps on giving! It has gotten better, though. Time and a truly remorseful formerly-unfaithful spouse are great healers.
Thank goodness for the last part of that statement, Tal. Its what puts you amongst the fortunate ones here.
Didn't mean that to sound glib, but I get the sense that sometimes you have a tough time seeing how impressive the current positives are thru the flashbacks of the past.
'til later,
KAW
Hi Talitsa - Wow. I hope to be able to say the same things about my M sometime in the future. We are still in the 'almost-end-of-A' stage. Sigh. Thank you for sharing your progress. Slowly
Quote:
I did have a rough time last week. I've gotten used to the triggers, but I think I had a full-blown punch in the gut flashback. He was getting ready for bed as I was getting ready for work. Suddenly, it hit me--all of those months that he had waited for me to leave for work so he could talk on the phone with OW. It didn't feel like a bad memory, it felt like a full-on anxiety attack out of nowhere. It really knocked the wind out of me & I had to go throw up. It took a couple of days for me to talk about it because the experience was so intense.
Tal -- I'm sorry that you went thru this but wanted to let you know it really helped me to read it...still get stuck sometimes in the "things are great why do I still sometimes reel from the feelings?" mode...so, nice to know I occasionally have company in the revisiting room. 
Sage
Hey all. What a weird day today! This morning, a guy at my work was trying to come on to me. He had what had to be the first pick up line I've EVER heard, lolol! Something about how , in his Tribe, there was a tradition of "stealing women" for wives & that's a hard tradition to break when he met a woman like me. Can you believe it? Sheesh! I told him that my H came from a Tribe that had a tradition of kicking the a$$es of men who talked to their wives like that & my Tribe had a few "traditions" along those lines too. Holy! And that was just the start of a day that got weirder!
Anyways....Sage, no you aren't the only one. It feels like a fine line to walk sometimes. I won't deny that there is still a lot that I have to work through and it will take time. Here's the big BUT (lol) though: I'm not going to wallow in being a martyr and I'm not trying to punish my sweetie! It took a while for him to get that it is a gift when I bring him my vulnerable feelings and allow him to comfort me and for me to comfort him in return. It's about healing and turning TOWARD each other instead of isolating and distancing. It's new stuff for us, good stuff!
Also, I think ratio is important. Lot's of positive stuff per a little bit of the difficult stuff.
KAW, maybe I do need to go back and read through my threads for a fresh appreciation of how far we've come. The healing that is still in progress doesn't take away from the really good state that our relationship is in now, though. Ya know, I always knew our R had the potential to be great, but we both had limited abilities to express ourselves or ask for what we needed.
Pam, I knew from the day the bomb hit that we could work our way through this if we both wanted to. I know that sometimes it takes awhile for some WAS to shake their heads and wonder WTF they were thinking first, but there is a level of disrespect that would have been the breaking point for me. I love my guy, but I deserve to be treated with kindness and respect. If I had not seen improvement in those areas over time, I would have walked away and told myself that it was Wolfie's loss.
You deserve to be loved and treated with respect too! You have used the bottom-line self-improvement principals of DB in the finest way--for yourself! Some folks learn the hard lessons in life by watching other people make mistakes, some folks have to make serious mistakes themselves but learn from those, and SOME folks just keep beating their head against a brick wall over and over--wondering why it hurts! You have learned so much! I know you are not ready to think about another R yet, but you are much healthier and happier now--so in the future, you will attract a much healtheir & happier R!
To Slowly & Mooka & T2 & PIB & everybody else: big wave HI!
Talista, You are well on your way to a great R. can u stop my thread and offer some advice?
Nitaf
Hi Talitsa - I so enjoy reading your posts - they are like a light in the distance, confirming that the direction I'm heading in is an OK one.
Quote:
If I had not seen improvement in those areas over time, I would have walked away and told myself that it was Wolfie's loss.
I think when I tell myself that I have not made a final decision about my future, this is what I am looking for. The A ending is just a starting point for the new R, how NG and I now relate to each other will be what matters.
Quote:
Ya know, I always knew our R had the potential to be great, but we both had limited abilities to express ourselves or ask for what we needed.
Another point of resonance. And it will probably take a lot of hard work and time to get to a good place, we still have trust issues to work through.
I'm feeling a bit better after visiting you. Thanks. Hugs, Slowly
We had an interesting bit of communication this last week. I mentioned that it still bothers me that I have NEVER in 10 years, heard anything from Wolfie that indicated the slightest bit jealous or possessive.
For the first time, he admitted to having "twinges" of insecurity from time to time. Apparently, he has had more than a few "twinges" about a specific male co-worker (and friend) of mine. The situation is that there are 3 men that I work with now that also all used to work together at a different place before. I consider all 3 guys to be friends of mine, but I am very aware of boundaries with my male friends.
The guy that Wolfie has worried about is an attorney and he doesn't have very good boundaries. He complains about his rather dysfunctional wife & home life frequently. A few months ago, I felt that he was going to far in telling me things that were a little too personal about his marraige, so I asked him to stop talking to me about it.
Over the years, whenever Wolfie and I would talk about our workday, I probably have told him quite a bit about the attorney friend of mine...jokes he has told...cases we worked on together...his griping about his wife.
Wolfie said that he started wondering if it was just a matter of time because I am friends with this man, the man is unhappy at home, and I spend more time at work than I actually spend with Wolfie (Wolfie works nights). Wolfie has told me many times that he doesn't "worry" about me being unfaithful, but as it turns out, he worries that one day I will up and tell him that I have grown to have feelings for someone else (more than likely the attorney guy) and end our relationship.
I was pretty much shocked to hear all of this stuff. For one, it had never occurred to me to ever commit infidelity. **well...except for right after the bomb when I briefly considered having an A as revenge***
I just have never looked at another man in that way--not even potentially. I ESPECIALLY have never looked at the attorney guy as even remotely attractive!
Anyway, I told Wolfie that he's got nothing at all to worry about with me! I'm glad to know that he does have some twinges of jealousy, because I don't want to be totally taken for granted. Still, I was sad to hear that for years he's been walking around waiting for the shoe to drop. I told him that he just isn't disposable or replaceable to me!
All of this is important info for me in terms of understanding the reasons that lead Wolfie into having an A. Shortly after I found out about his infidelity, Wolfie said a lot of things about how he believed it was "just a matter of time" before I asked him to leave. He had convinced himself that I just didn't love him anymore. The truth was that I was mad at him for emotionally distancing himself from me and acting like an ass--but I was never considering ending the R.
All of this is more clear now. It's a big piece of the puzzle that I have been missing in understanding the nuclear bomb that landed on my life.
Tal,
I always look forward to your hearing from you.
I'ts like an instruction guide on how to make all the pieces fit.
I only hope some day I'll get a chance to use it.
'til later,
KAW
Quote:
I always look forward to your hearing from you.
I'ts like an instruction guide on how to make all the pieces fit.
I only hope some day I'll get a chance to use it.
Ditto... sigh
Quote:
Still, I was sad to hear that for years he's been walking around waiting for the shoe to drop. I told him that he just isn't disposable or replaceable to me!
All of this is important info for me in terms of understanding the reasons that lead Wolfie into having an A. Shortly after I found out about his infidelity, Wolfie said a lot of things about how he believed it was "just a matter of time" before I asked him to leave. He had convinced himself that I just didn't love him anymore. The truth was that I was mad at him for emotionally distancing himself from me and acting like an ass--but I was never considering ending the R.
Ah, Tal...more words of wisdom and insight from your thread! It resonates with me..one of the first things h said post-A was "I thought our M was already over. You were so angry all the time." Clear (when I LISTEN) that h, too, was waiting for my departure.
Hard stuff this loving in the face of everything
Worth it, though. 
Sage
Hi Tal - I'm so glad you are still posting progress - it truly reads like a reference of what to expect, if things continue in the right direction. KAW had suggested I look up your threads for ideas on how to handle some of my difficult patches, I hope you don't mind that I list them here. It's going to take more than one sitting, and I know some of the other recent additions to piecing will find this as valuable
Working it from the Other Side Need Help on Compliments and Praising! No R Talks?????? Baby Steps, Backsteps and Leaps of Faith Can Two Alphas Live Together? Return to the Pack Before and After/Extreme Makeover It's as Clear as Mud The Year of Seismic Activity Healing or Stuck? Not sure if I missed any threads - but wow. Slowly
hmmmmm.....I'm thinking I need to start through your threads, Tal. I know I've read bits and pieces before.
I get such good baby steps, and then comes the step backwards, and I get discouraged again....sigh......it helps to know others see similar things and still make it through.
Oh Talitsa! I can't believe it! I just read through your first thread when you mentioned your H blaming the A on you in part because you bought him the wrong x-mas present 3 years before. I heard the same exact story, except it was not only christmas but birthday!!!!!!!(and my mother bought him a bad christmas gift....and now that I think of it my 87 years old blind and broke grandmother).LOL! obviously you've been able to "pull it out" as they say....I will be catching up on your threads....I am in awe of the success stories here on the board. I only hope --and pray--that someday I can be one of them.
HOLY! I'm a little embarrassed to have folks go back and read through my threads. It is a chronicle of the hardest time of my life and I was an emotional wreak! Still...that was my story and the process I went through to get where we are now, so I can't regret any of it.
At the very least, my story is good for a couple belly laughs!
Update: Wolfie has been rather a grump lately. I know he's burned out at work and has actively been applying for other jobs. Even if he has to piece 2 part-time jobs together, it will be worth it to me so that he'll no longer be working with the BUTT-UGLY one!
Anyway, this weekend, he was really irritable. I found myself getting a bit worked up. I think the thing that struck me most was how low a tolerance for frustration he has and how his tizzies looked very childish to me! I still worry when I see him getting depressed or bitchy that his train has jumped the tracks again and we are heading for one of two scenarios:
1. He will have another A and leave me.
2. He will have another A and I will end this R because I'm NOT going through that crap again.
So....I had to take a few deep breaths, tell myself that it is HIS stuff NOT mine and I have no control over how he behaves, but I have a right not to get sucked into his grumps and let it ruin my day. I just went off an enjoyed all the flowers blooming in the garden. Eventually, he noticed I was gone and came out to find me. I told him that I was escaping from his irritable male menopausal mood, which got him laughing and lightened him up a bit.
Not much else to tell except we're continuing with all of the wedding planning.
Quote:
I was escaping from his irritable male menopausal mood
Well is that the long awaited medical diagnosis to explain the cause of the WAW syndrome?! 
It sounds like us "guys" need a new specialist to see ... not like we can see a OB/GYN for this!
'til later,
KAW
Hi Tal - I've got as far as the return to the pack thread - it is really good to see how you handled some of the similar issues, and get a heads-up on some that I could and should expect
Quote:
So....I had to take a few deep breaths, tell myself that it is HIS stuff NOT mine and I have no control over how he behaves, but I have a right not to get sucked into his grumps and let it ruin my day.
This is where we are at this week. I alternate between thinking he is grumpy because he is in contact with OW, and wants more (like seeing etc) and he is grumpy because he is NOT in contact with OW, and has withdrawals... Probably neither, but there you go.
Good to see you able to laugh off the moods Slowly
KAW, yes, the dreaded Irritable Butthead Syndrome!
Slowly, I do have to share with you that Wolfie has a very different version of the whole separation now. He seems to have re-written much of it in his head as a time when I wouldn't let him come home. All that fence-sitting he did, but now, according to him, he was practically on hands and knees, begging and doing whatever it took to "win me back".
Ummmm...yeah...right...ok, Dude whatever you say!
LOLOL!
My H always felt like he didn't get enough attention. I am dark now and wonder if it makes him feel unwanted. HOw do you find a balance between pursuing, being caring and going dark?
I asked because you said your H also felt unwanted. How long were you separated?
Can u stop by my thread?
Nitaf
It's a hard balancing act showing them the attention they want, but not putting on preassure. It's really a matter of doing new things and monitoring what works. If something works, do more of it. If you take it too far, back off an start over again.
Hey Tal - Just give NG a few more week, I'm sure his time with alien will also be re-written
If you have time, I'd love your perspective on my drama last night. Thanks, Slowly
HOw do you find the balance with an insecure man? How do I show affection and admiration, which he said, I never did. How do I do it while grey and without seeming persuing?
Have you ever gone grey? How long were you separated?
Nitaf
It is a hard thing to juggle, Nitaf, isn't it? Not pursuing, but showing a lot of attention is that is what their major complaint was about the marraige.
Mind you, I'm not recommending this to you, but looking back, I think the critical changes started for us when I did a LRT. I had hit a breaking point and told him that I was done and wanted to end the relationship rather than continue in limbo.
I think that shook him up enough to start reading books, wanting to go to marraige counseling, and put his toes back in the water.
I, on the other hand started to be much more detached, not being totally available, and even adding some mystery. My being all obsessed, anxious & panicky definatley had made him feel pressured. It had also made him feel totally in control and take me a bit for granted.
We were separated for 9 months. It felt like 5 years.
Yeah, H was cake eating so I had to set boundaries. We were ML about 2x's a wee up until amonth ago when I put a stop to it. He keeps saying too little too late but keeps coming around.I said, ok, too little too late then no Ml, give up the key, wash clothes @ mamas house where you reside,you will beinvited here for meals if I want you here,get S every other weekend. If nothing else he is treating me with more respect and I don't feel so doormatish. That is not a good feeling. He saw me as weka nad needy. Instead of stong confidant and attractive enuff that somebody else might snatch her up, issues and all.
Nitaf
Nitaf
HI Tal!
You amaze me at all your wisdom! You are a great role model for all of us here! I think it is great that OG tried to pick up on you--always nice to get that boost to the ego...and even better was your reply to him. LOL
I am doing well--I moved my thread over to Surviving the D--we have officially filed and will be final 12/2--and I am actually relieved and thrilled. Having lots of fun with my life, dancing, dating, hiking, trying new things with new people (particularly of the male variety).
Anyways, was just catching up around here...thought I'd pop in and say "Hello"
Take Care
Well, I haven't fallen off the face of the earth. I AM wondering if our Shinybear has. Where are you Shiny?? Miss you woman!
Life is...well, different. I haven't seen hide or hair of the alien or (former) OW in a long time. In fact, I just can't figure out what to do with my Wolfie as he treats me like the princess (that I AM) these days. We recently celebrated our 10 annaversary together and are still working on putting a wedding together in late August.
Just to let you all know: DBing works. I never agreed with the "no snooping" policy, as there were many times when snooping confirmed that actions matched words and that I could rely on my instincts.
So the year from hell came and went. I won't lie, I think both of us think about it every single day and both of us still have healing to do, but we are getting better at turning toward each other--not away from each other.
Word to the wise: DON'T rent Secret Window if you are reconciling!! Wolfie brought it home & we both had a mini-meltdown over the first scene. It's about a betrayed spouse who's mind splits on bomb-day (catches his wife in bed with an OG) then eventually kills wife and OG with a shovel. Something clicked with Wolfie though--I think it really hit home for him how it would have felt for him if the shoe had been on the other foot--as he would like to think he would take it with super-human maturity if I had been the one to be unfaithful {picture me rolling my eyes}.
He's still carrying alot of guilty baggage & I'm working on him to get him to open up more about that and start letting it go.
Big
to all of you guys! Anyone care to catch me up on their latest big happenings?
Hey Tal - Great to see you back
And validating that we are smart to keep dbing
Well, my NG, is still having problems letting OW go, though he tells me there will be no more meetings, just talk on phone and email. Right.
Funny thing is, apart from this, we seem to be hunky dory - or it could be a strong case of 'acting as if' on both sides
Still a little disoriented, Slowly
Hey Tal,
It is really good to see you again!
I miss Shiny very much also. So many folks gone, which is good for them but I miss touching base with them.
So glad things are going so well for you and Wolfie.
I am almost to buy my own house.
Driving the realtor nuts as I don't know what I want.
Today we go through more houses, maybe today we will find, "the one"!
Thank you for the update, I love it!!!
Tal,
We NEED you around here!!
Tal? Tal? you still out there!
Had to do a search of your name to find your thread!!
Yours is a great story--so at the very least thought I would bump it up for all DBers to look at--
the story of "Talitsa"--a good read!
Anyway, hope all is well with you and Wolfie (if you still check in on this BB)....
Wanted to say hello to all my friends that have helped me this past year--both live and on this BB! I'm in "surviving" and loving it!
Take Care Tal!
Hey Tal,
I was just thinking about you the other day.
How are the wedding arrangements coming along??
Hope you and Wolfie are doing well.
Bumping this for Deb
Hi Tal - Shiny is here, where are you?