Time of Echoes, by Jeannine
Still
Breathing cautiously
Welded to the moment
The room rotates through me
And there, caught in reflection
All sound peeling away
She stands before me.
“Do I know you?”
The face looking back
With eyes fixed in mute reply
But for the wind, that lends its voice
She speaks.
“You are me.”
“I died for you.”
“And I will die many times more.”
“For it is a time of echoes.”
The impression of her tender hand
Clasping to her last possession
Unfolded as petals from a pale pink rose
Blooming for the last time.
And scrawled upon her fading palm
Carefully sketched it read
As the mirror erased her from my eyes
Branding across my heart
Her words
“Let me live.”
I‘ll not forget that lonely figurine
Upon whose frame the past has perched
With it’s painful talons clenching tight
The burdens that were hers to bear
Are ashes now
Left for me to gather
To cast
Amongst seeds of hope
Water in the rocks
Current to rapids
Flowing quickly
Into a time of echoes.
# 1
Thank you for starting a new thread. I'm not ready for you to leave yet!
Your poem, I will have to read again. But I like it.
There is hope and sadness there combined isn't there?
Good morning Ms. Pam.
You are fast.
I decided to start this thread so that I could therapeutically air out some musty memories that are playing tag with my head.
Jan. 22 was 'bomb day' here.
However, as I've mentioned before on my last thread,
Water in the Rocks, the red flags and flares were everywhere by this time last year.
Life was waving it's arms and screaming from the shore, "There's a tsunami coming and it's headed your way".
Like a twit, I just stood there dumbfounded neck deep in ignorance until - it crashed on me.
Squished me like a bug.
So, I think I'll probably focus much of this thread on the topic of 'memories'.
Cause I got lot's of em.
I know some folks will want to tell me NOT to focus on those hurtful thoughts of the past, but unfortunately.... they're focused on me.
I'm going to give them their fifteen minutes of fame and then banish them to some desert island in the back of my head.....hopefully.
Not sure I have enough room for them all. I'll be back.
I'm a little crossed-eyed from being up most of the night.
Thanks to those delightful "memories".
I don't think they can just be pushed down inside of you, I think they have to have some resolution to the thought of them before that can happen with them. At least that seems to help with some of mine.
I spent yesterday going through memories and IT sux! But I like the results. I am mostly through the difficult stuff I think.
So do you ever sign onto Yahoo? We have some nice chats there from time to time.
With each passing, the memories fade. Make a point on Jan 22, of making a new good memory for the day to replace the bad.
jeannine
the memories are hard yes, but i do believe they have to be dealt with somehow - in your own way - journaling may help you put them to rest
i am sorry for this being an anniversary for you, remember that we are all here to support you
kitti
Thanks Pam, Kelli and Kitti.
I know that you all can relate to the subject matter at hand - all too well!
First chapter:
October, 2002:
H mentions to me that he has just hired a woman from Poland to work in his department.
Nothing more.
November, 2002.
Extremely busy with taking care of "the folks".
Noticing in the back of my mind all the while that H is coming home from work later than usual two to three nights a week.
He has become uncharacteristically interested in socializing with co-workers.
I also sense a subtle shift in his attention.
December 2002:
H is going out after work nearly everynight now, coming home smelling of booze and no longer discussing his day with me nor any details about all his afterwork outings.
Doesn't want to tell me the name of the places he's been going to or just claiming to 'not remember'.
H seems to be 'going through the motions' here at home and passes through the holiday season like a shadow.
We are invited to a bonefire party by a married couple, who are our closest friends, and at the time working at the same lab as my H.
Our MF approaches me while H is out of range, and with a look of grave concern, asks "So how are you holding up".
I look at him not knowing what he is referring to as he searches my face for something.
"I know it must be hard on you" he adds.
I answer with a big smile, "I'm fine".
Hmmm...
H and I go to a fancy xmas party given by his company and he manages to keep a friendly distance from me throughout much of the evening.
Even the pictures that we got from that night show me warmly touching him as he just stood there looking cool and absent.
I later learned that OW was there as well.
Needless to say, those pictures are painful to look at now.
More later.
H is uncomfortably close by at the moment.
Jeannine,
I know we're strangers, but I wanted to say your poem is hauntingly beautiful. I keep these words on my desk: "Even from a dark night, songs of beauty can be born." And your words -- well, just you yourself courageously exploring this -- are proof of that, no?
take care,
wonder
Jeannine,
I love your poem, sent riples of goosebumps up my arms.
Today is my 1 yr. anniversary of the bomb
. Of all days this is the one day my H is coming over!
Know that my thoughts are with you. Sometimes we need to purge ourselves of the ugliness that is deep within us.
Deb
Jeannine wrote -
Quote:
However, as I've mentioned before on my last thread, Water in the Rocks, the red flags and flares were everywhere by this time last year.
Life was waving it's arms and screaming from the shore, "There's a tsunami coming and it's headed your way".
Like a twit, I just stood there dumbfounded neck deep in ignorance until - it crashed on me.
Squished me like a bug.
Can I ever relate to that! It's only with hindsight that I can see there were LOADS of signs that something was very wrong, but I thought OUR marriage couldn't just fall flat like a house of cards, MY husband wouldn't do such a thing, MY friend wouldn't get involved seriously with her friend's husband, etc etc etc. Just how wrong could I be?
Livnlearn
Jeannine,
Great post! I had my guitar in my hand as I was reading. Couldn’t help but try to put it to music. Reminded me of some old Simon & Garfunkle. Hope things are going OK w/ H.
Gonzo
Wonder, Welcome.
Yes, we are strangers, and yet, companions on our journey.
"Even from a dark night, songs of beauty can be born." Ah, a balm of words to soothe the weary heart.
Please feel free to share poetry here anytime.
I draw comfort from it.That goes for everyone. Okay?
Deb, "Today is my 1 yr. anniversary of the bomb. Of all days this is the one day my H is coming over!"
Eeeks!
I've got an IV of empathy here.
I'm sending gentle energy your way.
The poem "Time of Echoes" wrote itself in the middle of the night and wouldn't let me sleep until I dragged myself out of bed and wrote it down.
This was not the first time, and if history is an indicator, it won't be the last.
Yaaawn.... I went grocery shopping this morning and felt my body turn on me.
You know...rigid muscles, clenched jaw, thumping heart, laborious smile and a strong desire to curl up in a ball on the floor.
Now there's a picture. Wish there was an icon for that!
I had to white knuckle my cart through the gall-darn store.
I think that I'm only going to journal "memories" a bit at a time for now.
This exercise tends to stir a lot up when I try to capture certain memories in writing as opposed to just browsing them as they float through my head.
LivnLearn, Hello new friend.
"I thought OUR marriage couldn't just fall flat like a house of cards, MY husband wouldn't do such a thing, MY friend wouldn't get involved seriously with her friend's husband, etc etc etc. Just how wrong could I be?
" Ouch, Ouch,
Ouch! Gads, as if it weren't bad enough to have your H betray you with another woman....but with your friend?!
What a rusty dagger that one is.
I've seen it else where on this bb, and it truly makes me ill just to imagine the hurt that comes with such a corruption of trust.
{{{{{LivnLearn}}}}}}
Gonzo, 
"I had my guitar in my hand as I was reading. Couldn’t help but try to put it to music. Reminded me of some old Simon & Garfunkle." I am deeply touched.
And honored.
Jeannine,
Beautiful!
I love it. What an outlet for the wounded soul.
Will we ever be free from these horendously painful memeories?
We cannot erase this kind of pain from our memory.
We learn to live with it at best, and strive to come to terms with it, thus laying it out publicly and facing head on every betrayal and lie.
We must come to some kind of terms with this betrayal as best we can because it reaches into our depths and crawls through us, winding it's way to the center of our being-our hearts.
It steels into us in the dark of night as we lay sleepless.
Remembering. Feeling.
As you remember Jeannine, so will we. It will hopefully be a purging time for us all.
Your words are hauntingly familiar.
Even if the circumstances are different, the feelings must be closely shared by all of us.
They grab us and hold on tight.
Thank you Jeannine for your bravery. Your journey through these memories is bound to be a painful one. Rachael
RMC,
I found your post quite 'poetic'.
Sounds as though writing is a good avenue for exocising your hurt as well.
Let it flow through your fingers, friend.
You honor me with your words Jeannine. Rachael
Jeannine,
Thanks for the poetic boost . It didn't take me long to play other songs…..
Livin' Life by the drop
….
Up and down the road in our worned out shoes
talking about good thangs and singing the blues
you went your way and I stayed behind
we both knew it was just a matter of time…
Then ended watching Grateful Dawg on IFC and another new song for me to learn
Sitting in Limbo
….
Sitting here in limbo, waiting for the dice to roll
Sitting here in limbo, have some time to search my soul
Well, they're putting up resistance
But I know that my faith will lead me on….
So is it Florider or Florida to you?
Gonzo
Hi Jeannine!
So I wasn't the only one who got goose bumps reading your poem...I am really not a HUGE poetry fan, but Jeannine, that was beautiful and haunting.
Boy, can I relate to what you gals are saying about hindsight being 20/20!
Why didn't I pay closer attention when our 10th anniversary dinner conversation was nearly nonexistant? Why didn't the massively increased number and duration of "business trips" catch my attention (oh, it did, but only to bitch about it
).
The late work hours? The odd phone call from CJ's SIL (when OW called THERE looking for CJ...he insisted it was a wrong number)...his cell phone being off during trips...him NOT leaving his hotel phone #'s or calling at 11:00 p.m. as he used to.
But like many of us (I think?
)...I was SO COCKY!!!
CJ wouldn't DARE do anything like that! He just didn't have it in him! (I took some comfort in his "performance problems" HA!
).
And anyway, I was the one who'd complained that our M was dull, I was the one who wanted to go for counselling, I was the one reading all (not quite ALL!
) the books...I was completely blindsided...in my arrogance I NEVER thought this would happen to me. But it DID.
As for the memories...mine are definitely fading. I have not looked back over my journals or bb entries from last year since I wrote them (except for that brief foray on the anniv of bomb #1 which only served to make me feel WORSE!).
We will never "forget"...but the bad memories can fade...if we let them..and I suppose each one of us does it in our own way.
Shiny
Your poem was truly beautiful, Jeannine.
You and I have an annaversary in common, dearheart. I knew for sure on January 22, and confronted him the next morning.
In some ways, yes...I saw it coming. The increasing distance, his depression, the way he would pull away from me when I would hug him for longer than 5 seconds. But it wasn't all like that..so I was definately getting mixed messages.
The annaversary that I think will be the most difficult for me will be his b-day, Jan. 13. He was off and gone all day while I was at work, and when I tried several times to get through to him on his cell phone, no answer. I was fussing over making him a cake when I got home, and really hoping he'd like his present (a book of old album cover art, including all of the old Filmore posters). He finally called and said he'd been up to the mountain and had been feeling bad about getting older, but had decided "F-it, lots of old farts like Mick Jaeger are still kicking around and they are older than me". He was in a good mood when he got home
and was describing his day up by the river on the mountain (this would not have been out of character as that is a place he would normally go to get spiritually centered). I noticed, though, that he had a cruel little smile going on as he LIED IN MY FACE.
He had been close to the mountian...with OW and there is no cell phone reception that far up.
Damn. These memories hurt. We went to see the Return of the King the other night. Later, I began to think about the part where Frodo was stabbed with the Ringwraith's ice-cold sword on Weathertop. It never completely healed, and sometimes the wound would grow cold and make his heart feel like it was pumping cold blood. That is how those memories feel to me.
Gonzo,
We are big fans of IFC.
It's nice to get away from all that hyped up Hollywood stuff.
"Sitting in Limbo" - that really caught my eye, because right up until recently, I was a full-fledged resident of LimboLand.
As a matter-of-fact, I was just starting to campaign for Mayor there.
However, it's
not a nice place to visit AND I wouldn't want to live there.
While I was going over your thread, a question came to mind.
Are you familiar with the book "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman?
If not, I highly recommend it.
Once you start reading it, you will see why it's a favorite around here.
It's FloriDAH around here ...
Rachael,
I just know that writing has helped me to 'hold it together' at those
times.
So instead of taking my 'feelings' to my H...I take them to my keyboard.
I've spent countless hours writing fast and furiously as a sort of 'time-out', disciplinary technique over my unruly kids - rage, fear and anxiety.
I wish they'd grow up and leave home. Brats!
I encourage you to do the same.
Sometimes in our darkest moments, all we have are - words.
Quote:
You know, like bacteria that has been laid on a dry surface where it will die from a lack of moisture.
Yeah, or like sh!t getting bleached and innocuous in the sun!
Livnlearn
Quote:
So instead of taking my 'feelings' to my H...I take them to my keyboard. I've spent countless hours writing fast and furiously as a sort of 'time-out', disciplinary technique over my unruly kids - rage, fear and anxiety. I wish they'd grow up and leave home.
Brats!
Yes! I've done the same... after all this time I have books... and have logged plenty of deleted, never-sent emails. Writing it all down has helped me to hold it together too, to remember the line between him and I, to take responsibility for and understand my own feelings and to be able to communicate productively with my H when the opportunities have come up. I've shared a great deal with him, actually. Of course, for a long time I took the feelings to the keyboard AND to the H too, but I finally learned to stop doing that except on the rare occasions when it makes sense. Some of us are slow learners in that arena.
wonder
Aw well, Jeannine. They are memories--and part of our memoirs--but are not our reality now.
P.S. I forgot to tell you...since we went to see the Return of the King, Wolfie has been having dreams about being a Ranger gathering up Hobbits and making them run into the woods to hide because the Dark Riders are coming.
P.S.S. He cried at the part where Aragorn and Arawyn were reunited. Later he tried to say it was because the Hobbits were told they didn't have to bow before anyone, but I noticed the snuffling and eye-wiping WAY before that, LOLOL!
What do you do with a closet romantic?
Yes, I have those set of triplets myself Jeannine, and they are quite annoying at best.
I have not been journaling too much because I think back in "91" when I had my breakdown I wrote so much I could have sent it to a publishing company to make into a book (maybe I will one day!)
Now I just come here to voice my pain and anger and it seems to get the job done as much as needed right now.
H is being very nice today and I am reciprocating but I'm also being somewhat aloof. This is definately a 180 for me as all I used to do was trip all over myself trying to make myself the object of his affection.
Of course this does not work for any of you that are trying your hardest and getting nowhere with your S.
Not only does it not work, but it causes you to lose the neccesary focus on yourself that you need for personal growth.
It's taken me two yrs. of trial and error (mostly error) to come to this conclusion.
I know my emotions will not always be this stable. I'll have days when I will want to backslide, justifying it to myself that what I'm doing will somehow make us closer. (I won't give in Mattie-I promise!)
That my friends, is pure undulterated BULL.
The only thing that MAY make my husband truly want me again is coming towards him from a standpoint of strength.
This is day 3 of operation NO CONTACT.
Not only did I figure out I had to do this for myself, but I have been advised by the cre'me da la cre'me on this BB that precede me in their actions.
The advise I recieve from them is invaluble.
Every one of them have been where I am, and everyone of them had to do what I'm doing.
So....for all of you out there lurking. posting or not, take heed.
You MUST find a place of detachment. I have fought this theory from the get-go, thinking my sitchuation was somehow different and I would only alienate my H.
Wrong, wrong, dead wrong.
None of this is easy, but detaching yourself from rejection and indifference is far preferable to the pain I was perpetuating by the relentless pursuit of my H.
If you think you can't do it then you have not come to the end of your rope.
Hopefully you will not take as long as me to decide that this is a neccesary step to self survival and a chance for the survival of your M.
I'm already seeing that my H is respecting me more by not giving me those looks where they roll thier eyes and tilt their head back and make you feel like your the stupidest person on the face of the earth.
I'm taking the power away from him to hurt me over and over again when he proclaims his love for me just to repeatedly pull the rug out from under my feet by his lack of commitment and heartfelt caring.
I MUCH prefer ME being inthe driver's seat.
By detaching I am.
You take away the opportunity for them to give you he old one-two by refusing to let your feelings be decided on how they treat you.
Everyone of us on here is worthy of love and respect.
Unfortunately our spouses are not always forthcoming with the above and it's up to us to do whatever is neccesary to take care of ourselves FIRST.
By doing that, we are in essence loving and respecting ourselves which is tenfold greater than anything we could ever recieve from another. Rachael
Rachael,
You have changed. The winds of change are echoed in the words you write. You sound strong, thoughtful, and introospective. Gone is the sound of a needy, anxiety- ridden woman.
As our old friend Lily once said, you are "Queen Rachael."
Mattie
Wonder,
Quote:
for a long time I took the feelings to the keyboard AND to the H too, but I finally learned to stop doing that except on the rare occasions when it makes sense.
Yes, this was a lesson that was a long time coming for me, as well.
However, when I ceased to be an open book for my H, I noticed an acceleration in his interest level in me.
Tal,
Quote:
He cried at the part where Aragorn and Arawyn were reunited.
Relating - big time!? Quote:
What do you do with a closet romantic?
Good question.
Or were you being rhetorical? 
I believe that any kind of creative expression, (performed or observed) such as sculpting, dancing, writing, painting, etc., aid in cracking away the armor that shields our romantic underbelly.
Mattie,
Quote:
Rachael,
You have changed. The winds of change are echoed in the words you write. You sound strong, thoughtful, and introospective. Gone is the sound of a needy, anxiety- ridden woman.
Yes indeed Mattie.
I agree.
Rachael,
Stick with the train of thought that you expressed in your most recent post, and you will be well on your way to experiencing positive changes for youself, and in all likelihood, your marriage.
I sure hope so Jeannine.
Things have got to get better. I just hope he does not find solice with the OW.
If he does, then he's not worthy of me anyway right?
Did you have these fears when you detached? That your H would go back to OW?
I have to purge myself of these thoughts as they serve no purpose except to pull my PMA down, and cause anxiety.
I'm doing pretty good at pushing it out of my mind.
I knew this would not be easy, but I feel better in alot of ways already. Rachael
Jeannine,
Quote:
However, when I ceased to be an open book for my H, I noticed an acceleration in his interest level in me.
And that's what I need to do, I am to open. Always was, my H was my best friend. Thank you for saying this as it has opened my eyes!
Deb
Here's a problem.
My H says he cannot talk to me, and that he does not feel like I am his BF.
He''s comparing me to the OW whom he told me he could talk to her about anything (give me a break)
and he felt COMFORTABLE around her. (puke here)
I asked him WHY IS HE NOT WITH HER and WHY IS HE WITH ME?
I never really got an answer about that, so it tells me he's not really over her or he would have said that I'm what he wants and that he no longer cares about her.
I've had to get mad and ask him if he wants her and he says no, but the way he acts, he doesn't want me either!
I'm at my wits end with this man because I've been doing this for over 2 yrs and I'm so tired of him not commiting and him having his cake! Rachael
Deb,
So glad to hear that my comment about being "an open book" has opened your eyes.
I believe that we forfeit some of our mystique when we bare it all.
Also, from where I stand, I got the feeling that my H viewed the 'quiet' handling of my difficulties, as a sign of strength and independence.
But, remember in all of this, IT TAKES TIME for the results to manifest.
Rachael,
Just because your H has not fully committed to you and your M, does NOT mean he wants to be with OW.
Again, you must turn your focus off of her and back on to yourself.
Quote:
My H says he cannot talk to me, and that he does not feel like I am his BF.
He is giving you imformation here, sweetie.
Listen.
This is what you need to focus on - not the OW, not even YOUR wants or (sorry) needs right now.
How about acting as if he is nothing more than an old friend.
How would you behave around him if he were just that.
You might also try (when the time is right) to ask him, "What do you need from me in order to feel like I'm your best friend".
Look for specifics and keep your attention fixed on his needs and desires.
Your time will come after you help him over the finish line.
And may I remind you once again....PATIENCE.
This is a veeeery sloooow process.
Jeannine,
I've asked him MANY times what he would need me to do to be his BF.
His answer: I don't know.
I really don't care if he's with OW now. I'm too tired to worry about it any more.
I DO need to focus on MY needs right no.
I've neglected myself and was completely immersed in trying to make him happy.
How do I act like his best friend if he really doesn't care to be around me?
I'm TIRED of trying to be what HE wants. I've done it all for so long and got NOWHERE. It's VERY frustrating.
It's really in his court now. I'm done trying.
When I see some interest from him, then I'll reconsider what to do. Rachael
Chapter two:
The month of wicked reality.
First week of January, 2003
After more than a year of playing the role of ‘Maestra’ over the addition of an appropriate living area for “the folks”, and getting my mother’s H out of the nursing home and moved in here by the end of 2002, I was SO ready to invest some energy back into myself.
But as soon as the new year kicked in, my H started shifting into high gear.
He was now going out every night after work and disappearing for most of the weekend.
Toward the middle of the first week of January, he called from work and said that he might be going out and should be home by 8pm.
I thanked him for letting me know and told him to have a good time, all the while struggling with the assembly of a bedside commode for my mother’s husband. (He’s incontinent
AND feeble
).
Eight o’clock rolled round, no H.
I waited until 9:30pm with dinner getting cold, then called his cell.
No answer.
10pm, H calls and tells me that he's been invited to a co-worker’s house for a Karaoke party.
In the background, I could hear lot’s of partying going on and it sounded like someone was trying to seduce him while he was talking to me.
Midnight, I called his cell again – no answer.
1a.m., H calls me from outside of wherever the hell he was by then, and tells me that he's had too much to drink and will drive home as soon as he is sober enough.
H arrived at 2a.m.
H had never stayed out that late before in all the years we’d been together.
So naturally, I was tense and tired by the time he climbed into bed.
Earlier that evening, our neighbor, a used car salesman,
came by wanting to firm up the deal my H had made with him for the purchase of PORSCHE.
H never mentioned this to me!
Just as he had never mentioned anything about all the other things he had been acquiring sense October of 2002.
I told him that I was shocked to hear about his latest acquisition from someone other than him, AND also because he had not conferred with me about it.
I knew that our budget could not survive this.
My H spoke to me in a venomous manner as he informed me that he was buying it as an investment, but then swiftly went on to riddle me with statements about how he “almost didn’t come home tonight” that he “didn’t want to be here", how much he disliked this place.
He said “it didn’t feel like home”, that he was sick when he agreed to make the move here and should not be held to it, and that I was “ALWAYS unhappy and angry!”
At this point, a feeling of surrealistic fear came over me.
There was foreboding in his voice as he started to say “Alright, maybe I……”
I quickly interrupted him with an apology for not being more understanding, and for wanting to know ahead of time about such things as ‘buying a car’.
The words stopped there, but the feeling hung over our bed like a frozen lightening bolt.
I was hoping it was just the alcohol and late hour that had caused this strange and uncomfortable outburst from him.
Looking back, I now see that this was the first of many bricks that he had begun to lay in his road of betrayal.
Or maybe NOT the first.
I'll just say, it was the first that I'd taken NOTICE of back then.
It amazes me that the things these guys say are all the same! I heard every one of those things your H said. Every one!
He still does not feel like our home is home to him.
All these things that he says add up to me that he is still involved with OW.
He has a pretty bad track record, so I'd say there's a good chance of it.
Something is keeping him from commiting. He gets real close and then he turns cold.
I think it's her influence over him. He's torn in two directions, hense the relief he feels when I back off and his reluctance to anitiate any contact.
Maybe he feels that if he's not living with me and not seeing me he's not doing something as bad.
I think he does have a conscious, but not enough to break it totally off with OW. He's to weak.
I have no tangible proof, but come on! Every single sign is there.
All the same ones you got from your H.
What am I to do but detach from it?
I CANNOT change what he's doing. I've tried for a LONG time and NOTHING I do helps.
I could say what I feel about these H's that cheat and the women that entice them,but I might get thrown off this bb!
Rachael
Jeannine,
I owe you an opology. I read your post and I got hooked by the things you said your H did because it was all the same things my H said.(he never stayed out late-big whoop)
You are laying your pain out there and I know how hard it is to revisit those horrid memories.
All I can say is they lose something within themselves when they do this. It really is like they are someone else.
I don't know what makes them do it and I sure don't know what makes them snap out of it.
Your H has though. That does not make the memories any less painful.
That does not make trust any easier.
We have to work so hard to get past all this. It's probably the hardest thing we'll ever have to do.
Please keep sharing with us. It may hook me, but I need to work through my anger and this is as good a way as any I can think of.
I hope you don't mind if I use what you say to process my own feelings. Your so articulate, and you get to the very core of the betrayal and how it effected you.
I promise not shanghi your thread again. I apologize Jeannine. Rachael
Rachael,
One of the things that I hope to accomplish by writing out some of these nasty memories surrounding my (bomb) anniversary,
is to cleanse my mental palate
so that I might better taste the sweetness of the life I know share with my H.
The other thing that I'm hoping this exercise will accomplish, will be that others find a common thread here.
That it acts as a life line and provide a portion of hope for those of us who are navigating this long and tiresome path.
And please keep in mind, that although I am recounting my H's devious behavior from a year ago, I in no way wish to discount my own responsibility in the overall disintegration of my marriage.
This is key to successfully repairing a damaged relationship and keeping it on track.
Even if your H were to come back home now, do you really think that you have done the work that is so very necessary to hold it all together?
I say this with kindness in my heart, Rachael.
There is still too much focus on the OW.
The lions share of energy NEEDS to go to
solutions, not problems.
I know that you know what you need to do, so....
How about writing out some short-term goals along with some actions to support them.
Yes, yes?
I want to say thanks, too, Jeannine. Cause the time passed has seemed so long for me... but your sitch is so familiar. It gives me hope.
HoldingOn,
If my thread provides you with hope, well... that is a wonderful thing for me.
When I was relatively new to the bb, I hung onto any and all strings of encouragement that I could gather.
Eventually, I had enough to make a rope.
Okay, 16 posts later and all I can think to add is "we like the Indy film channel too?"
Shiny
Shiny,
Jeannine,
You are a gem. What a kind spirited heart you have.
The answer to your question is NO. I can't forget about the OW because my H has given me NO idication by his actions that he is rid of the scag.
Until he starts acting like your H or T2's and acts like he is totally in love with me I will NOT believe it's over.
He has given me NO idication by his actions that it is. Only his LAME answer that he is done with her.LIE. LIE, LIE!
I've heard that TOO many times to believe it by the way he's acting.
You must remember I've been through this SEVERAL times with him and you learn to know the lingo, the lies, the empty promises.
PLEASE do not discount me by saying I'm not ready. I'm MORE than ready Jeannine. He has not given me any indication that the R with her is over by his actions.
You know that gut feeling?
Do younot believe in it?
Every SINGLE time I've had it it's been right.
It's what you had when you first thought what your H was doing.
I've been at this a very long time remember.
My H still does the cell phone thing where he puts it on vibrate, or leaves it in his car. PAAAA-leeez!!
My Gawd woman, I KNOW the SIGNS!
When and IF he stops this wishy washy crap and back and forth I MIGHT or might not be there for him.
Jeannine, I'm DAMN tired of being LIED to.
Every single sign is there. Every one. What am I to do?
Hide my head in the sand like I've done for 2 yrs and found out he was lying to me??
I seriously doubt what ever the man would do would EVER make me trust him again.
Maybe if she dies, I would believe he wasn't screwing her.
Short of that, I'm sorry I've been in denial for a LONG time, and it's awakening time for me.
He's doing EVERY single thing a man in an A is doing.
I'm not going to give him his cake anymore.
YES, I'M pissed. My D just called my brothers to see if I was here. I am.
She called my H and asked him where I was. He said he didn't know where I was. Well the A## hole was suppose to call me to tell me how to get to S's basketball game tomorrow, and tell me if the crawl space was flooded.
Do you think the A## would call me? No he's a F'ing die hard, that won't call me because I'm not calling him. It's ALL about control for him.
He's a jerk and I don't know what the hell I'm doing even caring a whit about him.
Oh I'm ticked! Sorry Jeannine, but I know you can handle it-you've been here. Rachael
Excellent rant Rachael!
Quote:
Oh I'm ticked! Sorry Jeannine, but I know you can handle it-you've been here.
You bet your bupey I've been there.
Let it spill sweetie.
I'm not even going to dissect your last post because you need to let it rip and release some pressure.
And I want you to feel free to bring all that electricity here instead of to your H.
Yes, I know that consuming rage you are feeling right now and the exhaustion that comes with being tossed from emotion to emotion.
I know what it is to feel suffocated by pain.
I'd also spent a lot of time questioning the logic of my efforts and doubted whether I wanted my H back - or not.
Hey, we don't call this the "rollercoaster" for nothing.
It's awful, really, really awful.
Now take some deep breaths, dear one.
WOO HOO
what a RANT!!! let it out girl, just let it out
now THIS is something we can work with eh jeannine?
kitti
Kewlkitti,
Quote:
now THIS is something we can work with eh jeannine?
You betcha!!
I've had my share of furious rants on this bb.
They kept me from self-combusting.
Jeannine,
Well, I guess I did have quite the rant last night.
I suppose I'll have a few more also.
There's just NO way around the anger, you have to go through it.
I wish I could just have a Dr. pull any memory of H out of my brain, so I'd never have to think of him again.
They could at least invent a pill for heartache wouldn't you think?
Thank you for letting me vent here.
I think it's outta my system and then it hits me like a ton of bricks!
I vascillate between pain and anger and I'm not sure which is worse.
Why am I married to the biggest jerk in the world, and how did he turn into it?
He was a normal loving H and Father for YEARS before this hit.
Anyway, I'm better today (right this minute anyway)
Thanks for being so understanding. Rachael
Jeannine,
Did you and your H spend time together when he still had OW? Mine is really staying clear of us.
Rachael,
Quote:
Thank you for letting me vent here.
Anytime, sweetie pie.
HoldingOn,
Quote:
Did you and your H spend time together when he still had OW?
Yes.
I remember with great pain, the look on my H's face when he'd come home at night, his eyes cast down and the air around him simply dripping with emotional conflict.
It was a nightmare to be sure.
He knew that I knew and yet did not chastise him.
In fact, I was warm and friendly.
This, I believe, made him feel REALLY bad about what he was doing.
In essence, I was killing him with kindness.
But please don't misunderstand me, I had some major meltdowns from time to time and wasn't ALWAYS sweet and loving, especially in the beginning when I was trying to find a foothold in the dark.
Time passed (lots of it) and I got better at carrying out many of the DB techniques, and he in turn, began to inch his way back into my life.
It was one step forward and two steps back for the most part.
I think that when our spouses are in alien mode, their world is spinning out of control too.
If we can remain centered and stable, (or at least give the appearance) they are more likely to gravitate toward us.
Tis not easy.
No, Tis not.
I'm having one of those meltdowns you refer to.
It's always hard at first when you start to detach.
It feels so foreign to us, and very frightening.
It feels like we will push our S further away from us when we're trying SO very hard to hold on to them.
However, the opposite is true. I'm just learning this and it's taken me a LONG time to learn this lesson.
It's hard to give up control if you think there is OP is involved, but we have NO control over that whatsoever.
They will have to figure out on their own who they want.
Who looks the most attractive to them?
Well, at first the OP does but as we change and grow and live our own lives they start to notice and maybe they start to feel something of what they first felt for us.
It take TIME. I've been at this for over 2 yrs. but I've made a TON of mistakes.
My H will not commit but he does not want to let go either so I have to let go and see if he follows.
I'm still struggling every day to detach. SOme days are better than others, but in the long run I know I'll be ok.
That's what makes it all worth it. Rachael
Rachael,
Quote:
Who looks the most attractive to them?
Well, at first the OP does but as we change and grow and live our own lives they start to notice and maybe they start to feel something of what they first felt for us.
Good point.
This is important to keep in mind.
Last Sunday evening during dinner, my H and I were discussing the different ways in which we initiate ML and I made mention of my need for cerebral stimulation.
He looked me straight in the eyes and implored, “Haven’t I been sweet and loving to you lately?”
“Don’t you think that things are a lot better between us now than they were a few years ago?”
He cautiously added, “I don’t want to bring up things from last year because...well...that was all so sad, but..."
After fidgeting for a few seconds, he finished with “So, I guess we shouldn’t talk about it”.
He looked rather vulnerable as he held my gaze like a little boy who had just found his lost puppy.
I went over and kissed him, told him that things are definitely better for us now and that it was alright to talk about “it”.
I also plucked my courage and quietly mentioned that it was an anniversary of sorts and that talking about it was helpful to me.
He did not say anymore on the subject but I knew that in his own way, he’d just given me another spoonful of contrition and reassurance.
Just a little honey over my bowl of rocks.
Aaahhh....
Jeannine,
Love your post, thanks for sharing! Gives me a little hope, too! And it brought a smile to my face.
BTW, you're welcome! Glad I could be your genie, even if it is for one day!
Deb
Deb,
I'm glad my post brought a little light to your day.
I've had trouble getting to everybody's thread, but I intend to make it over your way as soon as time permits.
Quote:
Glad I could be your genie, even if it is for one day!
I'm grateful for this "one day".
"Not only has my H come back to me and our marriage, he's also come back to himself, the self that he was searching for."
I took this from something you posted on Livnlearn's thread ( I think !).
Excellent. I think that is the key to a successful reconcilliation, and true peace and happiness in the marriage. One MUST be content with oneself.
My H also tamed his demons and found his way back to his "true self." Actually, the man he has become is better than the one he was before the crisis. I genuinuely like this person -- and he likes himself.
Mattie
Mattie,
Thanks for stopping by.
I'm not familiar with your situation, but I am delighted to hear that you are enjoying success in your M.
Quote:
Actually, the man he has become is better than the one he was before the crisis. I genuinuely like this person -- and he likes himself.
Wonderful!
I will have to check out your thread as soon as the opportunity arises.
Well, actually, I haven't had a thread in well over a year. I'm pretty much a lurker now, with an occasional post here and there. I mostly just come to check up on Rachael from time to time.
I have been reading some of your journaling. You write beautifully and thoughtfully. It's quite a hellish journey that we here on the board have embarked on. I love reading the successes.
Yes, my M is definately a success. I owe so much to this board and Michele's books.
Someday I may come back and actually post my success story, but I find it difficult now to rehash those terrible times.
Perhaps if you're interested, you can do a search under my name here in "Piecing." I originally started in the Infidelity forum back in 11/01. I believe my last threads here were "Is it love or is it guilt," and "Starting over again - one more time." Something like that.
Mattie
Jeannine,
I'm so glad Mattie stopped by your thread. To me, tis' an honor to have her take the time to help me through this.
I asked her to stop in here because your dealing with laying demons to rest.
She has CERTAINLY has had to do that and although I think she still thinks back to those times as we all will, she's really her own success story.
What strength it takes to move through all the memories!
She's so happy with her "new" husband, she does not have much time to waste on rehashing.
She's a very wise woman, and if you can go back and read her threads, I think you'll know what I mean.
I'm doing quite well at this detaching thing and my turtle of a H has already popped his head from his shell just a bit and tonight he called son while S and I were out to dinner and he asked to talk to me!
Just to chat. I did not ask him to call me. I did not ask what he'd been doing. I acted perfectly happy. Matter of fact, I WASN'T acting! I am happy!
It brought tears to my eyes when I read about your discussion with your H. He loves you so much Jeannine.
The things he says!
I think he truly agonizes over what he did to you.
I know what it feels like, and the hardest thing to do is to forgive YOURSELF when you REALLY realize what you've done.
That's why I say, while we hate to see our S in pain, this period of guilt is essential for them. If they do not have it, they cannot empathize. If they do not have it then they do not know the full impact of what they've done.
To truly WANT to come back and MAKE things work, they have to have this time.
It's like confessing your sins to God. When you do that, you are really remorseful, and do not want to repeat them again.
This is not to say that they come back out of guilt.
Not at all.
They come back out of love, and the guilt they feel is normal when they realize the amount of pain they have caused to this person they love.
Do not be alarmed when you see this in your H.
Comfort him, for he FEELS your pain inside of him.
This tells you that he loves you VERY much indeed.
Rachael
Rachael,
Thank you for your kindness, hon. You made some very good points in your post.
And I'm so glad that you are feeling better.
My H continues to dress my wounds and wrap me in wool.
Just this evening, he fixed a lovely dinner and then attentively listened to me as I recalled my day.
I had been in a situation this afternoon that caused some very old hurts to surface.
(They had nothing to do with H, just some experiences centered around rejection as I was growing up) - a subject for another time.
Anyway, right after I had mentioned that I sometimes feel like an oddball and don't seem to fit into most social circles, he said ever so sweetly,
"YOU are MY favorite person". My face is leaking.
Welp, so far, this has been a weepy week for me.
A few days ago while driving, I saw an elderly man standing along side the road with a small cardboard sign that simply read "hungry".
Luckily, I had some food in the car, so I swerved through traffic and offered it to him.
He was grateful for the offering and commenced eating.
Naturally, I was upset to see this poor, homeless man with his tired little bundle by his weathered shoes, and knowing that he is just one of an ever increasing population.
So there he stood along side of that busy highway in the dead of winter, struggling to maintain a measure of self-dignity as he humbly held his little sign asking for something as basic as
food.
I'm getting upset just thinking about this.I watched from a distance as one expensive car after another just zipped right past him with bearly a glance.
I broke down in tears in my warm car, as I drove to my warm home, where I would later have a warm meal.
Okay, this incident does merit tears. Then yesterday, I started weeping again for no apparent reason.
One of those "out of the blue" moments I guess.
And of course, there was that earlier episode I've already posted (the event that triggered memories centered around rejection).
I've been plagued by anxiety and melancholia of late.
And mental acuity?! Ha!! Done gone flat it has.
Then I got to thinking (
or something like it ) that perhaps my mind is being sneaky and is quietly working on last year's events behind my back.
Perhaps traumatic memories act like a magnet for other emotional stuff left over in the ole attic.
Hmmmm....
Well, today I was discussing poetry with my H and he asked me if I'd written any lately.
I said, "No, not really".....
"well maybe one".
He expressed interest, so I decided to read to him, "Time of Echoes".
I can't give you a lovely, romantic picture of what ensued, because, well....
I lost it.
Yep, tears, wobbley chin, pathetic air sucking - the whole silly package.
My H remarked "Well, I guess you are feeling a little ultra-sensitive today".
Ahhh - yeh.
That'd be about right.
I eventually managed to stagger across the finish line with four flats and my hood flapping against the windshield.
Even still, he commented on how much he liked it, even though he didn't fully understand it.
I have to say that he was being 'KIND' here.
I mean, have you ever heard someone trying to speak while being strangled?
Picture Minnie Mouse trying to be serious while reciting my poem in some smokey coffee house.
Weird, huh.
I simply said, "'Time of Echoes' is about
memories". He looked at the floor and mumbled
"Oh".
Not sure whether he 'got' it or not, but I'm glad that I had the opportunity to share another little piece of me - with him.
HI Jeannine,
You are a sensitive person, by nature, are you not? I got a little choked up just READING your story about hungry man!
However I think your insight about unconscious emotions, memories being processed below the surfase and accentuating or eliciting over-reactions is BANG ON!
I would count positives in your H expressing interest in your poetry...in his effort to understand...in his acknowledgment of your feeling especially raw right now.
Shiny
Shiny,
Quote:
You are a sensitive person, by nature, are you not?
If my mother's opinion is correct, I'd have to say "yes".
And yes, H has been supportive, sweet and tender.
I can hardly believe this is the same man I was dealing with just a few short months ago.
Posting a positive for today.
H came up from behind, wrapped his arms around me and in between kisses to my cheek, asked "Love me?".
It's funny how his question sounded like "I love you".
AWWWWWW!
Love to hear these little things!
Awesome!
Deb
Hey guys,
Here's a joke that might cheer you up - your last post reminded me of it.
Quote:
There's a great story about John Wayne, who was playing a cameo role in the biblical epic, The Greatest Story Every Told. He had one line in that movie, at the end, when he delivered the words, "Truly this was the Son of God." He was told that he lacked enough expression when he said, "Truly this was the Son of God." The director was George Stevens, who reminded him that he was talking about Jesus and said, "You've got to deliver the line with a little more awe." So on the next take, John Wayne said, "Aw, truly this was the Son of God."
Livnlearn
Thanks
Deb.
I love to hear these little things too!
LnL -
I'm hitting a wall today.
Last night, after my H went to bed early, a friend of ours called with some disruptive news.
This friend still works for the lab that my H used to work for before being laid off.
This lab is the place where my H hired the woman he ended up having a full blown affair with and drifted into a massive campaign of betrayal - enabled and supported by a small circle of self-serving co-workers.
Well it seems that the lab has decided that they need my H afterall and are now hoping to hire him back.
Neither my H or I are surprised by this turn around, but I am a little surprised that my H has so quickly opened the door to the possiblity.
He claims that the issues of the past are "behind us".
This turn of events comes just days before the official 'dropping-of-the-bomb' day - Jan. 22, 2003.
So...my H is considering returning to
'ELM STREET' .
The echoes are rising and rumbling.
My hands are cold.
Jeannine -- Ah...this happened to me on a much smaller scale about 9 months ago...h was offered a consulting job (for a few days) at the company he used to work at...ow was still there
I can't tell from your post -- does ow still work at the lab?
Perhaps h's readiness to return to the scene is a test for himself? A sign about how far he thinks you guys have come?
Did he offer any insights to you?
I can see you strongly DB'ing your way thru this but I'm sure that doesn't make you feel any warmer...
tell us more about the conversation?
Sage
((((((((((((Jeannine))))))))))))))
Poor darlin', I know this is upsetting to you.
Is this something your SURE your H wants to do?
I think if he does take the job, he means what he says that all that is behind him, but that does not take your anxiety away.(I hate that!)
Your forced to trust here. Suggesting he not take the job would not be a good thing I take it??
I think he knows how you feel about this without you even saying anything. If he's true to how he's been lately-so loving and understanding of your feelings, building a very intimate relationship, this will not change that.
Jeannine, he picked YOU. It's you he wants.
Give him the freedom to do what he needs to do and he will love you all the more for it.
It will be ok.......really! Rachael
Sooner or later, it all comes down to trust doesn't it?
No matter what he does or where he goes there will always be the matter of trust.
Look at it this way. If he goes to work there again and she's there and he is over it and everything remains fine with the two of you that will be the ultimate assurance you are looking for.
Personally, I think he is dead serious when he says it's in the past and won't be an issue.
Jeannine, you'll have to restle with your fears I know.
It's unfortuante that this opportunity came up in respect to the OW, but it's also and opportunity for him to rise to the task of reassuring you once and for all that you are the only one he wants.
Sage,
I'm not sure if the OW still works there or not, but there is the distinct possibility.
I only told my H about the phone conversation this morning as he was asleep at the time of the call.
I avoided making any reference to OW and that whole mess.
My H can read me with stealth ease, making my DB job a little more challenging. So noticing that I was worried he asked "Is something wrong"?
I replied, "I'd thought that we had left that place behind us."
This is when he said "Yes, my employment with them before is behind us". I can only assume he meant that what had happened there before is - behind us.
He said that he didn't want to make any decision either way until we get back from our vacation in Costa Rica, which is Feb. 24. He said that he wants to hear what they will offer him, that he didn't want to work for salary this time, won't accept working over eight hours a day like before and that he wants to check out other places as well.
He got a bit tense and snappy at one point when I questioned him about how he intended to handle this situation, should they call here.
Perhaps he thought that I was being difficult...I don't know.
I have noticed in the past that he tends to get touchy whenever we discuss his plans for maintaining an adequate income for our household.
Too much pressure, perhaps?
Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but it seems as though my H is a little preoccupied since this all came up and after speaking with our friend this morning.
I also get the sense that my H's ego is stroked by this latest development.
As for the possibility of H seeing this as a test for himself and how far we have come, I get no sense of that all.
It's still too soon, but H has done little to warm me with this issue.
I know from experience that it does not bode well for me to seek assurances...so it's back to acting.
Rachael,
Thank you for your kind post.
You're so right, this all falls under the catagory of trust.
I just wish I had had a little more time to collect some more of that good stuff.
Oh well, could be worse...right?
His old workplace (or as I now refer to it - ELM STREET - as in NIGHTMARE) was a slumbering beast up until last night.
Well this morning it yawned, and boy does it ever reek of morning breath.
Quote:
Give him the freedom to do what he needs to do and he will love you all the more for it.
Good advice, Rach.
Jeannine, I wish I could come up with some great advice, but I really can't think of any. Only, if things feel right between you and your H, then you will just have to go along and trust he will do the right thing.
Wish I could be of more help!
Livnlearn
This is a definately a rough situation. Very likely, your H probably thinks like Wolfie does---that what happened before is a closed chapter. They would just as soon keep it closed and not revisit it. Wolfie has worked with XOW all of this time since the bomb. He doesn't work closely with her, and states that he simply ignores her and that's that--no problem. He doesn't really comprehend why it makes me feel the way I do about it!
For us, the choice was financial. A different job would mean a substantial decrease in his pay for awhile. He's going back to school part-time in the spring, working toward a degree that will give him more options. Until then...we are STILL on ELM STREET.
Yesterday he told me that his work is sending him on a training for a week, along with one other nurse (a female one). I immediately wanted to go into: "which one is she? Have I met her? Is she married? How old is she?" and so on.....yuck!
This is a very sensitive subject you are facing. Is there a way you can gently open up the subject in such a way that you can ask him to be at least empathetic to your feelings about the subject? A lot of the terror your feeling right now, has probably not really occurred to him.
LnL ,
Just taking the time to let me know that you are here and that you care, brings me comfort.
Tal, Quote:
Very likely, your H probably thinks like Wolfie does---that what happened before is a closed chapter. > He doesn't really comprehend why it makes me feel the way I do about it!
Yea, I think that is the situation here. Quote:
he told me that his work is sending him on a training for a week, along with one other nurse (a female one). I immediately wanted to go into: "which one is she? Have I met her? Is she married? How old is she?" and so on.....yuck!
Yuck indeed.
You're a stronger woman than me, because I'm quite sure I'd end up asking at least 10 of those 4 questions.
I'm in "do nothing" mode.
There hasn't been enough time for me to get a handle on this new development, so I'll just have to wait and watch for a chink in the wall to appear.
Hi Jeannine,
Just what you needed...MORE tests of faith!
I found it interesting that although your H seems flattered (I KNOW CJ would be if his old place called him back...he still checks their website to see what they are doing with IT, his old job)...he DIDN'T just jump at the chance to go back there...he wants to wait, compare, think on it.
Part of his decision should IMHO include how it might affect you, and what he can do to reassure you should he go back there.
((((((((((((((((((((((((Jeannine)))))))))))))))))
Shiny
Jeannine,
I love it! It yawned and it had morning breath!!
Yes, it stinks at best.
He's been so attentive and loving, but for some reason these guys think that we can have select memory about this stuff.
They just want it to all go away. Well, if THEY want that, think how much more WE want it!
Unfortunately it must be dealt with. Also ufortunately, alot of it we must deal with it alone. That stinks too!
Shiny,
Quote:
Part of his decision should IMHO include how it might affect you, and what he can do to reassure you should he go back there.
Well, I was just about to post back about how my H was not the type to engage in such a dialogue.
Sometimes, it feels good to be wrong. And this is one of those times.
Just as I was about to hit 'post', my H walked up to me (after speaking with our friend) and relayed the latest update on how eager the lab was to hire him back.
Later in the conversation, he said that he knew I was concerned about his returning to work there, and then reassured me that I need not worry.
He then went on to list the benefits for us should he work there again - as in higher income. H used the words "us" and "we" liberally throughout.
He said that "if" he went back, it would be on "his" terms - no more flat salary, no more extended hours, and that he'd be getting home by 5pm each day, etc.
Now, having just read your suggestion (and others here) that he include my feelings and give reassurances, I decided to step over the line and broach THE topic.
I let him know that regarding his reemployment, I want to be included in the decision-making - he readily agreed.
I asked him about whether I would be included in any after work activities and told him how much it had hurt me to be excluded - he said that he understood and not only would I be included in any after work get-togethers, but that we'd also spend some of his lunch breaks together.
I asked if OW was still working there - he said probably. He assured me that NOTHING would happen with her. Absolutely nothing.
I asked him if he would inform her that he's back with his wife - for good - and would he do whatever it takes to discourage her from further pursuit.
He informed me that I could count on it.
He then went on to tell me that she probably already knows that we're back together because he had previously told a number of friends about his turn around and "news gets around".
I asked him who, specifically, he had told, and he replied "Well, John for one". (John is one of our closest friends, the one I keep referring to.)
I asked him what he had said - and this is what he told me. "I told him that I'm happy with my life now; I love my wife; that I'm going to stay where I am; and that it doesn't make any sense for me to go else where and start over when I have want I right here".
The dynamite was planted.
I was fixated at this point and felt a quake gathering deep inside. "You told him that?", I asked as my face started bunching.
The fuse was lit.
"Sure".
Kaboom!
The dam had burst.
I heard my H "Ooooohhh" as he walked over.
He wrapped me in his arms and gave me his shoulder to cry into.
In between sobs I muttered, "I needed to hear that".
I later went up to him and hugging him said, "I trust you".
sniffle...sniffle
“And that makes all the difference in the world."
I think he needed to hear those words, because he looked, well... pleased .
WOOHOO!!!
Awesome, awesome "walking out on the tightrope" from BOTH of you!
What a wonderful foundation for openness and trust and growth you and your h have built.
Sage
oh goodness jeannine, how utterly wonderful
and to think where you were not so long ago - there is hope yet for us all
CONGRATS TO YOU AND HUBBY
Hi Rachael,
As you can see by my latest post, the door has opened some more.
Yay!
I found the chink, AND it was sooner than later. Yay, Yay!!
Quote:
They just want it to all go away. Well, if THEY want that, think how much more WE want it!
Oh, so true.
For me, NOT approaching my H and looking for reassurances has been difficult - but necessary.
I've had to keep to HIS time schedule throughtout this recovery process.
But, I've learned that this is the ONLY way that I'm going to get what I want.
Jeannine,
Wo. Very awesome stuff from H.
What more could he possibly say to convince you?
He said the very best thing he could say, and you did the very best thing you could.
You gave him the GIFT of your trust. Beautiful. Rachael
Sage, It is awesome, isn't it?
I'm feeling less lonely and more hopeful now that my H has stepped out on to that tightrope with me.
- Incredible. -
Kaw, I'm lagging way behind with everybody's threads too. Wish there were a few more hours in the day.
Yea, it would appear that another divorce has been busted around here.
Mine!
I know that this is not the end of the story, nor the end of problems, but it certainly is a better place to work from.
KewlKitti, Utterly!!
Although it felt like a lifetime while I was crawling on all fours through the muck - looking back - I see a larger picture of enormous change unfolding in a relatively small amount of time.
I think that due to the nature of the process in which growth is largely invisible to us, it feels like slow motion.
I really, really hope that my situation provides hope and encouragement to all who are struggling through their own.
Rachael, Yes, he did give me a gift, something that I've longed for, for so long.
I was emotionally compelled to give him something valuable in return.
Reciprocity...
Jeannine,
I'm really, really pleased and thrilled, for you!!!
And also, selfishly, for me and others, because it means that this kind of thing is not just a fluke or a one off, but something that so many of us can achieve if we stick the course...
I just feel immeasurably more optimistic about my situation too, even though H is going away for two weeks to a country where there is a potential OW that he has been in contact with by email and IM for over a year. I just feel that 'WE' have turned a corner, and that things can only get better, not worse, if we give it time and patience.
Does your situation already feel more open and honest than your M before Jeannine? The fact that he can articulate such concerns and reassurances?
Livnlearn
LnL,
I noticed that you posted some very nice positives over on your thread. I'm happy to hear that you are feeling a little more optimist. I'm sure your nerves are appreciative, too.
Quote:
Does your situation already feel more open and honest than your M before Jeannine? The fact that he can articulate such concerns and reassurances?
Yes!
For a long time prior too the "bomb", there were numerous aspects of our M that were sick.
For instance, I used to spend WAY too much time talking to the side of my H's head.
Whereas now, he makes a point of looking me directly in the face and listens with apparent interest and even interacts with questions and comments.
He'll go so far as to put the TV on pause if I start to speak and no longer has that look of impatience on his face that says, "Are you done yet?"
He doesn't "react" nearly as much, he shares more, laughs more and seems more present than before.
It appears that he's learning how to DB in return.
Very
I wish there was a little icon for high 5's! This time YOU made ME tear up!
Boy do I relate. We seem to be in a very similar stage right now, as do our H's.
I think you and he both handled this conversation really well, and it's obvious where your H's intentions are.
I'm glad you got some of the reassurances that you need.
Tal,
Quote:
We seem to be in a very similar stage right now, as do our H's.
High Five!!!
We do seem to be in lock sync in many ways, yes?
Husband's too!
It's odd, but this morning after our "talk", H was looking at a calendar and said, "Hey, you were born in the year of the monkey, right?"
I confirmed this to be so, and then he said, "Your year begins this January 22."
Oh, the irony of it all.
Brilliant Jeannine!
I can't wait to get back the man I love and married, as well as having a really good and honest and caring relationship!
Wow!
Livnlearn
I am so happy to see your patience and trust rewarded. Great news, and a wonderful post to read!
Your H has certainly grown, as have you, through the troubles.
Thanks Kelli,
I see that you and your H have made significant progress as well.
It looks like patience DOES eventually pay off...afterall.
Jeannine,
This is AWESOME! I'm so happy for you! And things like this give the rest of us extreme hope!
{{{{{hugs}}}}}
Deb
Quote:
For me, NOT approaching my H and looking for reassurances has been difficult - but necessary.
I've had to keep to HIS time schedule throughtout this recovery process.
But, I've learned that this is the ONLY way that I'm going to get what I want.
Amen... and remind me of this... again and again.
Deb, Thanks, hon.
I want so much for others to know the rewards that come with all this hard work.
So, if this gives you and others extreme hope, then thats icing is on my cake.
HoldingOn, Quote:
Amen... and remind me of this... again and again.
Will do.
Now that I'm experiencing significant success, I can't help but feel hopeful for others.
And for those who have followed my situation over the past year....you know why.
Hey Jeannine -
I've mainly been a lurker on these boards and your threads were one of the first I "lurked at" -- probably because we're both from Florida.
So much has happened in the last 6 months - I'm so happy for you. You give all of us hope and the wherewithal to hang in there. You go girl, H too!!
Mary
Hi Mary,
Thanks for dropping by.
The entire year of 2003 was an extremely difficult year for me, and I'm sooo glad it's over.
There were many times when I didn't think I would survive - literally.
So, hang in there!
hey jeannine
are you anywhere near jacksonville?
KewlKitti,
Nope. I'm on the west coast near Clearwater and Tampa.
drats
i am going to be in jax sometime the end of this month and i thought we could hook up, it's ok...now that i know, we go to orlando at least once a year! LOL
Well the 22nd approaches and the echoes are busily swimming up to the surface.
I'm alright, but I feel it’s time to journal the little twerps out of my pool because their splashing all over the place.
Around this time last year, I had come to expect not to expect my H home from work before 9pm - 10pm or later.
I had become accustomed to him not answering his cell phone whenever I rang him, and if he did respond it was by calling me back 10 minutes later from some solitary location - usually outside.
I had come to learn the 'new math' - what ever time he said he'd be home, add at
least one hour more.
I'd learned to dine alone whether he was away or home.
I was spending the precious little time he allowed me, trying to connect with someone who no longer looked me in the eyes for more than a fraction of a second and who always looked down in remorse when entering the house.
He was vague or silent about his days and evenings, and suddenly started having to work weekends.
He was acquiring all kinds of things without even so much as word to me about it any of it and when I’d ask him about all the “stuff” I was finding at our house over on Parkside, he’d never give me an answer of substance.
He was spending inordinate amounts of time at the Parkside house, (which he made clear I was not welcomed there) or running about at odd hours.
He perpetually drank in my presence, usually stooped nervously over a goblet of wine, which often replaced his dinner being that it was late and he’d already eaten.
It seemed as though he was increasingly anxious and on the verge of saying ‘something’.
I recall suddenly crying out to my mother one day as she was being difficult, (due to her illness she’d become psychotic by this time)
that
"my marriage might be coming to an end".
I quickly ran from her and hid in my bedroom with my own words gathered around me.
I could no longer fool myself into thinking that this was just some mood that my H would pass through and we’d go on as before.
The floodgates of hell were opening quickly now and I sensed a large dark wing gliding overhead.
I felt the breath of the beast.
Hi Jeannine~
Ok, now you've taken the net and scooped the little twerps out of the water. They are no longer splashing about.
Now the water is calm and inviting. Now the splendid beings of confidence, wit, charm, vibrance and love can fill the water with their beauty.
You have come such a very long way since the time you are referring to. Now you have journaled some space to keep going on your timeline and get to the good stuff!
Blessings
Water
Jeannine,
Splashing all that cloudy water out of your pool leaves plenty of room for all of the cool, clear stuff to be poured back in.
I've been catching up on your threads... you've really come so far. I admire your courage and strength.
wonder
Jeannine,
You describe what happened to me with remarkable clarity. Were you there?
Water, Yes, I do believe that the twerps are less potent in my journal than in my pool.
My intention is to get out the net only as I spot them.
All is not healed yet, but it is getting better.
I'm addressing issues more openly with my H now - that helps.
Well anyway, the water is definately looking more inviting now a days.
I hope that your situation is holding steady. You sound well.
Wonder, I admire your tolerance in reviewing my threads.
I'm more apt to read other people's history than my own.
Too darn painful and I find that it pulls up lots of muck and clogs my filters.
And how are you faring these days?
HoldingOn, Somehow I knew that at least one person would find strong simularities in my prebomb rundown.
I think that there is little out of the norm here.
Just slightly different recipes for the same pile of poop, eh?
I'm sorry that I am unable to get around as much to other people's threads.
When I have the time I try to keep up with everybody, but then I end up neglecting my duties, so I knuckle down for a while which causes me to get behind on the threads again, so then.....
Quote:
Somehow I knew that at least one person would find strong simularities in my prebomb rundown.
I think that there is little out of the norm here.
Just slightly different recipes for the same pile of poop, eh?
{{Shivers}} Yep.
Tal,
Yea...I knew YOU'D relate heavily.
Jeannine
Could you provide a link to your very first thread please?
It is always instructive and brings hope to see how things have progressed in a given person's situation.
Thanks a bunch!
Livnlearn
LnL,
You will find all my links, right back to the first one, in the "2003 Success Stories" thread here in "Piecing".
Third page, third post down by "imalright".
If you have trouble finding it, please let me know and I will bring it to you.
You will find numberous success stories and their links there as well.
I hope that you and other's will be able to draw a measure of comfort from what you read here - and there.
Aside from maintaining contact with my dear bb friends and getting continued support of the nicest kind, I want to help others make their way back into the sunlight.
So here I am.
Letting myself back into the room.
A couple of days ago, as I was searching for a some documents, I noticed something missing from my bedside table.
Several months ago, I'd mentioned on the bb that my H had given me two photo's, one of OW and the other of himself and OW.
He did this upon my request and as a good will gesture.
Well as I was scrambling through my bedside drawer where I'd kept those two photo's all these months, I noticed that one of them was missing - it was the one of the both of them.
This morning I approached my H, sat on his lap and asked him if he knew anything about the missing photo.
I made sure that I had an air of friendly confidence around me before asking this question.
He assured me that he had not taken it, suggested that perhaps it had fallen through the back, and then with a look of amazement said, "You still have those?" "Don't you think it's time to shread them?"
I calmly replied, "I will, in my own time."
I kissed him several times on the face and neck and told him that I loved him.
His face melted with relief and then I changed the subject to something else completely - and it was over.
Parts of me that have been left outside on a cold bench for way too long are now finding their way back into our home.
I'm pleasantly surprised by my H's acceptance and co-operation with these sort of conversations.
For me, this is a visible benchmark of our progress.
Jeannine,
I also asked my H for any photos, cards, letters, anything he might have from the last OW (EA)as a gesture of "good will."
He presented them to me and offered to read one of them to me, which was written in Spanish. I never asked him to translate that card. A couple of months later, I mentioned that I still had those items. He was a little upset that I still had them and suggested that we dispose of them together. I was not ready to do that at that time.
That was a year-and-a-half ago. I still have them in my desk drawer. For some unknown reason, I felt the need to pull them out and look at them one night last week. I was very unpleasantly surprised at the emotions that are still associated with those items. My heart started pounding and my anger flew to the surface.
The feelings were strong enough to provoke me to contact an old DB friend in order to "vent" those feelings with her rather than with my H. She has rather the same situation with cards and photos which she has also not been able to "let go" of, and she's kept them for over three years now.
It sparked quite a flurry of debate as to why we both seemed unble or unwilling to dispose of the "evidence" of our H's betrayal.
No conclusion was reached except for the knowledge that the healing process is not completed for us -- no matter how wonderful our R's with our H's are.
Someday I hope to have healed and forgiven to the point of being able to finally let go of that tangible evidence of one of my H's betrayals (there were 3 all told). Sometimes I think that I must let it go NOW in order to truely heal -- but I can't. Not yet.
Matilda,
Quote:
No conclusion was reached except for the knowledge that the healing process is not completed for us -- no matter how wonderful our R's with our H's are.
Someday I hope to have healed and forgiven to the point of being able to finally let go of that tangible evidence of one of my H's betrayals (there were 3 all told). Sometimes I think that I must let it go NOW in order to truely heal -- but I can't. Not yet.
I can't explain it either, but I'm just not willing to destroy those photo's or any of the other evidence I have stashed away.
I too, pull out the photos from time to time and find it brings some rather unpleasant feelings to the surface.
There's something inexplicable about the whole process of deciding if and when I will pull them out and then ruminate over them a while.
Even the ritual of putting them back in there place and leaving them alone until I decide to pull them out again, is somehow therapeutic in an odd sort of way.
The resulting anger from looking at those photo's holds on to me less and less as I repeat the process.
Oh yea, I've never been face to face with the OW (not sure how I would respond if I were ) so I talk to her through the photo.
I tell her "I'm still his wife, and you are ... HISTORY!"
Quote:
my H's betrayals (there were 3 all told)
Oh Mattie...
I'm so sorry to hear this.
You are to be commended for your patience and strength.
Jeannine,
My H confessed to me that he had a PA after it had been over for 3 months. One week later, he decided he needed to shed ALL his guilt and confessed that 13-14 years prior he had had a PA. I was rocking and reeling to be sure.
It was not for another 10 months that I would discover his ongoing long-distance EA with an "old family friend" whom he had not seen in over 30 years.
Oddly enough, when I found out about his EA I realized how deeply troubled my H was. I was able to see that he was not just a philandering son-of-a-bi*#h, but that he indeed in dire need of help.
My own father suffered from depression and took his own life when I was but 5 years old. He was never diagnosed with depression, as that was 45 years ago, but I have many letters he wrote my mother at that time and he was definately severely depressed.
I knew my H needed help -- at that point, he knew he needed help. He got that help and is now a completely different person.
But that does not negate the pain I felt/feel as a result of his betrayal. While intellectually I can understand somewhat of what he was going through, emotionally I am forever scarred.
Mattie
Mattie,
Quote:
My own father suffered from depression and took his own life when I was but 5 years old. He was never diagnosed with depression, as that was 45 years ago,
Oh, I barely know what to say.
How very sad.
This, in itself, must have left a deep scar.
I'm happy to hear that your H has gotten help and is a "completely different person" now.
Sounds as though you could really use some stability in your life after all you've been through.
My guess is that, life has taught you to be very compassionate.
I can hear it in your posts.
{{{{{{Mattie}}}}}}}
just thinking about you today
make today's doings memorable for your future...
{{{jeannine}}}
Hear Hear!
Sending you warm hugs!
((((((((((((Jeannine!)))))))))))
Thanks, Kitti and PiB.
Your thoughtful posts are timely.
Feeling disconnected, sad and anxious today.
Nothing terrible happening around here, just feels like something deep inside gnawing at my spirit.
I'll be alright.
Is your H aware of the significance of the date today? Did you not want to plan something special to celebrate, instead of brooding on the past?
Livnlearn
LnL,
Yes, my H is aware that today is THE day.
Last night, as we were talking about our up-and-coming trip to Costa Rica, I mentioned that it seems as though the number '22' holds some significance for me.
I told him in a light and friendly tone that -
* It will be 22 days until we leave on our trip counting from the 22nd of this month.
* I was born in the year of the 'monkey' and the year of the 'monkey' starts on the 22nd of this month.
* I was born on the 22nd of October.
* AND said, "Something that I'm trying to forget happened on the 22nd of last January".
Ummm...It just fell out of my mouth in that manner. My H's face kind of melted into an expression of pensive sorrow after that last remark.
I quickly injected through a big smile, "But, things are MUCH better now" and his face perked right up.
Sheeewww.I've been taking a course, (off and on) since November and it runs from 9am until 4pm. Today I left at 12:30pm because of an ever increasing bog I was finding myself in - and people were noticing.
The bog was pretty bad by the time I got home, and my H noticed.
He didn't probe, but my guess is that he had a good idea of what was causing it.
He's presently in bed with a headache.
I'm wondering if he's experiencing his own "echoes" right now, as well.
One thing my H did say before lying down was, "Would you like for me to meet you at school tomorrow so that we can have lunch together?"
I managed to grunt a "yes" out through my mental fog.
By the way, the school is real close to where he used to work. Eeek.
Trust, trust, trust.
I'm so glad I have my wise and caring bb buddies here to keep me on track.
Doing something nice right now IS important.
Now to clear this sickening fog from my head and figure out what that "something" will be.
Think, think, think.
Jeannine
I think you have mentioned before, that you have very few or perhaps no good friends where you live. Is that so, and why is that?
Livnlearn
PS About that something special... perhaps you could decide on something really spontaneious and spur of the moment?? They often work out best!
Jeannine -- Sounds like you both are feeling the effects...I'm sorry for that but happy that you are together, there for each other while the feelings and memories are making their unpleasant visit. Something special for you first then maybe both of you? A hot bath/shower, cozy towels, a glass of wine, just holding hands while he nurses his headache?
Thinking of you...Sage
Jeannine,
How about crawling under the covers with hubby and help take his mind off his headache
!! I do believe you both need each other's full focus and attention today. You want to start over-laying those painful memories with joyous ones. What better way?
Just keep reminding yourself that the events of January 22, 2003, are only kept alive in your memory now. That is not your reality. The reality of your life is a loving, remorseful H and a marriage that is getting stronger day by day.
I promise that it gets better.
Mattie
Jeannine,
Well, you are past the bump! Now things will level out again. You must keep thinking you are in a better place than you were last year, a much better place! And next year can only be better.
Your story and what you went through, and where you are now, give the rest of us hope. And believe me sometimes it's those success stories that have the rest of us hanging here praying we get a chance to be one too.
Deb
Quote:
Now to clear this sickening fog from my head and figure out what that "something" will be.
so what did you decide???
LnL, The reason I have very few friends is because of the isolation that I have been living in for a long time now.
The isolation is an unfortunate side effect that goes with being a caregiver for two elderly people (mom - soon to be 85yrs and her H - 89yrs) both in the middle stages of Alzheimer's - and all that goes with that.
Sage, "Sounds like you both are feeling the effects..." My H has been acting differently lately.
He seems to be bending over backward to be patient and sweet with me. Sort of an enhance version of his better self.
As wonderful as it is, it's also kind of
odd .
Not complaining though.
Matilda, "I promise that it gets better." These words brought tender reassurance to my heart and tears to my eyes.
Deb, "You must keep thinking you are in a better place than you were last year, a much better place!" You're right, I must keep reminding myself of this so as not to backslide or self-sabotage.
Sometimes, it just feels surrealistic, or like I'm going to wake up one morning and it will all have snapped back to how it was a year ago.
Got to keep riding the crest.
Kitti, "so what did you decide???" Well, I kind of mixed everybody's suggestions together and ended up taking a nice, warm shower (for me), then made a Caesar salad, my H's favorite, (for him).
H opened a bottle of Chardonay (for us) and then we enjoyed a low key evening together in front of the television.
I, too, had a whopping headache yesterday, so neither of us were up to anything that required energy.
My H showed up at my class today and we went to lunch together, and then went for a walk in a beautiful park afterward before he returned me to my class. (The lunch and park were HIS idea).
When I got back, two of the students told me how "cute" they thought my H was.
But of course!
Jeannine
Is there any way you can develop a new friendship or two? I am not underestimating the amount of time, energy and care you put into looking after your mother and her H, but it cannot be right that you have NO friends. Or at the very least, mutual friends that both you and H meet up with?
'Cause not having any friends puts pressure on the relationahip with your S, for expecting it to provide more that perhaps it can reasonably withstand.
Does your H have many friends?
I'm just thinking out loud - don't know the ins and outs of your situation. But EVERYONE needs friends - real ones, not just virtual ones, or online ones!!!
Livnlearn
LnL,
Your post is quite wise.
"'Cause not having any friends puts pressure on the relationahip with your S, for expecting it to provide more that perhaps it can reasonably withstand."
This, I feel, is a very important point.
My H and I do have some mutual friends, however, I think that it would be in my best interest to have a friend or two of my own.
This is something that I hope to accomplish within the next 12 months.
Perhaps I will be fortunate enough to meet someone from school who I can connect with, someone I can talk to openly.
I do have my counselor, but she cannot socialize with me in the same way that a friend would.
I think that I shall list this as one of my goals for this year.
Thanks for the heads-up on this.
yeah, the post was quite wise cause it got me to thinking also...
Hi Jeannine!
So I'm AWOL at JUST the wrong time...good thing there are such great folks around here!
Phew...it's OVER, the first anniv of the first bomb is the WORST...at least that's been my experience so far.
Now on the point of "evidence"....
YES I still have my FILE FOLDER full of e-mails, digital photos, letters written etc. I too am not yet ready to let go of it, although I have not even looked through it since Aug when I looked at a few things (yep on the anniv).
Heck, ladies...I have a BACK UP copy of these things in a safe place outside of our home!!
Healing IS a process, things ARE SOOO much better...and yet, and yet...
Jeannine, on the issue of finding time outside of your considerable responsibilities: Are there no services in your area that might provide a few hours of care a week to give you a break?
I know such programs exist here in Canada and it's a Godsend to folks in your sitch.
As for the actual process of making new friends...are you more of an introvert or an extravert? I'm leaning towards introvert, but it's not a sure thing with only text to read.
Why not take your DB principles to school with you? If you tend to hang back or not take opportunities to socialize (grab a coffee, join a study group, attend something on campus) then 180 it! Or even experiment initiating contact...it's a lot less scary once you start doing it!
If you're a social butterfly and I'm way off base, J, I DO apologize!
Shiny
Shiny,
I think we all need to go AWOL on the boards at times, so I totally understand.
Yes, the official day of the bomb has passed, however....the anniversaries keep coming.... do they not?
This coming Friday will be the anniversary of the day that my H confirmed my newly formed suspicion that there might be an OW involved.
It took me waaaay to long to even consider such a possiblity.The photos my H gave me of OW and the two of them, I keep in my bedroom side table. Since he gave them to me, I figure there's no reason to hide them.
What he does NOT know about is the file full of documents and notes I have tucked away in a cabinet.
I avoid the file evidence like the plague.
I don't think that it is unhealthy to hold on to our evidence. For reasons known and unknown to me, I view it as part of our healing process.
Some things should not be rushed because, as you have stated, this whole business IS a process.
We do have services here in my part of the States, such as "Cares" which I use. I have someone come in three times a week and help out.
And yes, it is a "Godsend".
I had NO help of any kind right up until about mid 2003 and the caregiving duties were entirely too overwhelming - even without the trauma of my H's betrayal.
It is because of "Cares" that I am able to go to school three days a week now.
I'm most definately an "introvert". Socializing has always been a bit painful for me - even as a young child.
However, I'm usually fine when around people I know well and who seem to be of the same feather.
One thing that I would like to do someday when my life finds some reasonable order again, is to start a political focus group here at our house.
My H and I are political activists and I seem to have a more dominate personality when engaging in political discourse.
I also need to aggressively work on my health.
H and I are both predisposed to Depression, and although we are managing right now, it certainly doesn't feel good.
I'm also suffering with GAD, (generalized anxiety disorder) something that I'm sure you can relate to Shiny.
Other than that, my H continues to be wonderful and I can hardly believe this is the same man as before.
Anyhow, I think that another echo purge is due soon - just not right now.
p.s. Have you and CJ recovered from your illnesses yet?
I hope so.
Well, I guess I'm not the only one to have a file folder. Somehow, I guess I need to have it around to remind myself that it was not just a nightmare, it was real.
I'm finding that there are far more similarities than differences with many of the situations around here.
In hearing what we have in common, (as unpleasant as it is) it helps me to feel less alone and not as
weak as my H would have had me believe - one year ago.
Yea.
According him, I was weak, co-depenant and too emotional because I cried and threw-up a lot after he informed me that he was deserting our M and his responsibilities.
And then of course, there was that minor detail about him screwing around with someone at work.
Apparently, I was enormously weak when he told me that 'he loved me, but wasn't IN love with me',
'didn't think that he ever had been in love with me',
'that I loved him way more than he loved me',
'that he hadn't been alone in a long time and now it was his turn to be selfish',
AND then went on to inform me that 'I was a MAJOR mistake in his life'.
Yea, I was the weak one,
my
a@s!Oh, oh...
Can you tell I'm holding an old hand grenade with the pin pulled out!?
So--ok, you are remembering that you H was a bonehead and didn't know s**t from shinola before? Of course you had to be the "defective" one. You've been around here long enough to hear a 100 stories about projection and rationalization when spouses go off in lala land, right? Yeah--it SUCKED, but was by no means unusual.
Put down the grenade, darlin' and pick up a Scooby Snack (lol-re my thread) or maybe Smoked Pig Ears? Bacon Bits? Chewy Rawhide strips?
Easy does it--don't bite the dog!
Oh, Tal, you're priceless!!!!
Jeannine, oh yes, I CAN relate....
Quote:
According him, I was weak, co-depenant and too emotional because I cried and threw-up a lot after he informed me that he was deserting our M and his responsibilities.
I wailed, moaned, begged on my hands and knees and THEN threw up...
Quote:
And then of course, there was that minor detail about him screwing around with someone at work.
The OW became reality when she called here three months after bomb#1...That night I got stinking drunk, over medicated myself, became violently ill and begged CJ to just finish me off as I dragged myself down the hall way...
Quote:
Apparently, I was enormously weak when he told me that 'he loved me, but wasn't IN love with me', 'didn't think that he ever had been in love with me',
All of the above...PLUS having OW on a three way call getting CJ to say he DID NOT LOVE ME, but still "cared".
Yup, Jeannine, we all have these horrors, and myriad others tucked away in memory. In a lot of ways, these were the hardest things for me to deal with.
Well, maybe the incredible lies too...
I must say that having CJ tell me (mostly in letters) that this WON'T happen again, that no one and nothing will come between us...really has helped.
And it DID have to come voluntarily, from him. This was very recent.
I know I'm not making a lot of sense at this point, but I DO have a thought here:
Are any of you struggling with reconciling who your H's are today, who you thought they were pre A, and who they were DURING the night mare?
Sometimes I think of it not at all...most of the time in fact. But then like a subtle itch...it's there. How could he have DONE that? (even little things...like making travel plans, lying to his work about the trips...)
Actually, that's one conversation I WOULD like to have with CJ. At this point it's almost at an academic level for me...I'm honestly fascinated to know how a person who is basically honest, loyal, "good"...can DO such things? What do they say to themselves that makes it all right?
Just HOW did CJ feel when he composed that detailed "letter from me" confessing to a two year affair with my ex fiance (which he e-mailed to OW as "proof" I was a cheater first ).
I suppose part of me wants to know so that I can understand, because a lot of it, I just don't.
Shiny
Tal, Okay, I've put the pin back into the grenade - for now.
I know the crap that spewed forth from my H last year was just projection and rationalization of the common kind.
Most everyone around here would raise their hand if asked whether they'd heard the same thing coming from their spouse at some point in time.
I'm just processing whatever memories knock the loudest right now. It does seem to help.
However, I must thank you for your suggestion.
My dogs and I had a really good time chewing together in front of the fireplace last night.
I still have a bit of rawhide stuck in my teeth though.
Shiny, Quote:
Are any of you struggling with reconciling who your H's are today, who you thought they were pre A, and who they were DURING the night mare?
YES!!!
You've nailed it.
It's as though there are three different people I've been calling H all of these years.
Although they all look the same, they are distinctly different in personality, character and moral aptitude.
Body snatchers?
Right now, I'm trying to get to know the fella who's been hanging around the house and sleeping in my bed. I'm not really sure who HE is.
I mean... I like him a lot and think he's swell and all (in fact, he's my favorite so far) - but is he a permanent resident or just a temporary guest?
Am I to expect a fourth personality to show up some day?Quote:
Just HOW did CJ feel when he composed that detailed "letter from me" confessing to a two year affair with my ex fiance (which he e-mailed to OW as "proof" I was a cheater first
Oh man...
Quote:
Quote:
Are any of you struggling with reconciling who your H's are today, who you thought they were pre A, and who they were DURING the night mare?
YES!!!
You've nailed it.
It's as though there are three different people I've been calling H all of these years.
Although they all look the same, they are distinctly different in personality, character and moral aptitude.
Body snatchers?
Right now, I'm trying to get to know the fella who's been hanging around the house and sleeping in my bed. I'm not really sure who HE is.
I mean... I like him a lot and think he's swell and all (in fact, he's my favorite so far) - but is he a permanent resident or just a temporary guest?
Am I to expect a fourth personality to show up some day?
You have both hit the nail on the head. I've talked about this a bit on my thread lately, and it is a big issue for me. I keep looking at him and wondering if I really know him--is he going to take off a mask and be somebody else at any moment, capable of doing incredibly awful things, or is he a wiser version of the man I love who just whacked out for a while? It's very hard to reconcile, and I basically is about being afraid to trust and let myself be vulnerable again.
so much of what makes the memories so painful is the ability to say they are really over, or will the monster come back out of the closet.
You hit it straight on when it's learning to trust again, when it didn't have to be learned the first time around. It helps when the cheating spouse validates that the trust is deserved, but it is still a solo journey.
I would hate to think I could never trust again...
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I keep looking at him and wondering if I really know him--is he going to take off a mask and be somebody else at any moment, capable of doing incredibly awful things, or is he a wiser version of the man I love who just whacked out for a while?
You know, Tal, your second notion is what I DO believe about 90% of the time. It's what has helped me heal thus far.
Question is...let's assume this IS true, basically good guys who "whacked out:"...do we NEED to know WHY? Do THEY?
You see, I'm not even sure CJ knows what the hell happened last year.
Is NOT knowing setting us up for a repeat, or other problems? Or can it just be let go?
Shiny
Hey Jeannine,
Here is a hug!
{{{{{{{{{{{{Jeannine}}}}}}}}}}}