Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: shinybear Getting Closer!!! - 09/04/03 08:50 PM
Hi Gang...is it possible I've been locked out already???

Wow!

Well hopefully my wise and wonderful friend Sage will link up my old thread for me as she did last time

I guess I'll have to post my summary next as I forgot to copy it over .

Shiny

P.S. Thanks for the thread title Idea, Jethro!
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/04/03 08:54 PM

Hey Shiny Will I do?
Shiny's last thread
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/04/03 09:00 PM
I thought you said something about having your summary in a word processor so you didn't have to keep redoing it everytime. I thought that was where I got the idea to do that with mine was from you!
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/04/03 09:02 PM
Now what was it you told me the other day about bragging rights????????

Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/04/03 09:05 PM
#1

She scoops them all!

Here's the lengthy summary:

I’m 40 H (CJ)is 41. (M #2 for him, #1 for me)

Married 12 years. Three cats, no kids (by choice).

I teach psychology at a local University, H’s job has been “restructured” so he is currently unemployed. White collar professional. Now earning an M.A. in distance learning on-line.

Up until Aug of ’02, I would have rated our marriage at a 7/10. Shows what I knew!

We had ups and downs, arguments, issues surrounding my sarcasm, controllingness, perfectionism, anxiety (which were much bigger than I knew). Issues with physical intimacy, with me wanting more, H offering less.

Nothing dire, or so I thought. I’d bought marriage books, mentioned counselling a couple of years ago…H didn’t seem all that interested.

August 22 '02 Bomb #1 ….Three weeks after I have kidney surgery H comes home from a 2 hour trip to the beer store looking distant and depressed. I press ( ) and he admits to wanting a D! Talk about 2X4, I thought he was going to say the job had finally gotten to him!

My world falls apart, I ask, he says there “is” no OW. Was there? Yes, a one time only dinner and kiss on a business trip. He thought he was in love. I am crushed, beyond hurt. All of my anger disappears under a swirling vortex of self-loathing and despair.

Aug 25 ’02 , took H to our doctor, we both start on antidepressants, Xanax for me as well. H takes sick leave from work. I think we’re “working on things”, I assure him that leaving his job is fine with me. H is uncertain. He loves me but…is not IN love with me, you know the drill.

Things are good/bad, up/down, VERY uncertain and odd for months. H is going out to bars without me, staying out late, I’m not sure who I’m married to anymore.

Sept ’02 I buy DR and find tremendous relief in the MLC and Depression chapters. Start Dbing (which I’d been doing since the bomb without realizing it)

We start MC, (H promises to put 100% into repairing our M) which turns into private C for H. Things seemed to be going well for us, I thought his depression needed attention most. Dumb.

, ” Nov 27th ’02 “Bomb #2 OW calls our house. Message I hear is “CJ, I don’t care if Shiny hears this, are you moving here or not!”

I pick up,. H tries to hang up the phone. OW and I have a loooong talk. Seems they met on a chat line about 18 months earlier. She’s the second OW he met there. EA’s turned to PA’s in both cases. All supposed “business trips”.

He’s told her an astonishing array of lies. Here’s a small sampling: we are separated, he’s moved out, our house is for sale, I’ve cheated on him, I won’t give him sex……


She e-mails me his latest messages to her and some digital photos of herself, her kids, and the two of them together…He has a ticket to fly out there (across country), bought her a diamond ring….daggers to the heart, my head is spinning. My anger returns for the night.

CJ figures he’s lost us both. Next day she calls again, and they’re on again! More head spinning…

Next day I talk to him, feels like a battle for good over evil, for his very soul. Something changes in him and he vows to keep his word, to no longer lie, to no longer be driven by fear, to stay in town whether our M can be salvaged or not. He tells her (with me in the room) that they shouldn’t see each other any more. I feel it is a weak ending, but take him at his word.

Dec ‘02 We see another therapist, once…a miserable, expensive waste. I pull back, give him space, start doing more things on my own. Wishing he would join me, asking him to. But made the big mistake of telling everyone what happened (he didn’t want to be seen as “true blue” when he wasn’t), making it uncomfortable for him to socialize.

Family and friends are united in supporting my decision to try to work things out. Can’t believe this behaviour of H, totally out of character, not who they thought he was.

No reassurances from H, he swears there’s been no further contact, but strange behaviour continues….long walks, (this is Canada in the winter) 2 hour “runs to the video store”. No Christmas gift for me.

Jan ’03 , we find another C. Much better. 1st session H reveals that he wants to try to work things out…I weep with relief.

Much blame still rests on my past behaviours which H classifies as “abusive”, so hard to hear. I was unaware of the extent of the damage I was doing at the time. Have a much better appreciation now.

Things start looking better. STD tests clear, we resume intimacy, start talking again, start connecting. All the while, I’ve done major 180’s in a variety of areas, most notably the anger, sarcasm, “freaking out over small stuff”, anxiety is well in hand, I’m much more laid back, criticism is almost non-existent. Lots of internal and external changes I am proud of. And although H doubts it, they are REAL!

Valentine’s day '03 …lingerie and wine. Just a card from H, but a very nice evening.

Things are looking better and better… .

February 25th '03: Bomb #3 . I wake up to another phone message (our machine is always on) from OW. This time she’s asking for our address. We talk again, she tell me that “this time” she’s breaking it off for real. And wants to send back the stuff H had sent/given to her (including family photos of his childhood).

My heart pounds, but it’s nowhere near the experience of Aug and Nov. Instead of “freaking out” and showing him the door (which H expected, and so too, probably would any sane person who doesn’t know about Dbing) I sit down and ask him to explain.

He does. Seems they were back in touch two days after their “break up” in Nov. She says he reached out to her, he says she called here while I was at work. Either way, it was back on. Since I now have the cell phone (which was my birthday gift to him in Nov. ), she calls while I’m at work, he uses phone cards on our fax line, or he goes out to use pay phones. And e-mail, of course.

She sends me more e-mails, including a booked (then cancelled) plane ticket, professions of deep love for her from H, more lies (me catching him packing), nick-names, sickening, hurtful words.

His rationale : Early on in December he tried to cut loose from her, but she insisted they maintain contact. She does appear to be very controlling and more than a bit scary. She’d moved back in with her H and 2 boys, and was still insisting on talking to my H. He finds out she’s been married 3X, has cheated before, slept with her FIL!

In late Jan, H tried to end it with her again (saying it wasn’t fair to me, or her H and kids ) but she threatened to send me e-mails. Then demanded $500. H sent it. Lied to me when I asked about the bank statement. The A continued.

H says his end was just trying to keep her quiet, hoping she’d find someone else and disappear from his life.

She leaves her H and little boys again, tells my H all about the guys constantly trying to pick her up, starts dating someone.

Feb 24th ’03 , my H calls her and says it HAS to end (her new boyfriend insisted she stop talking to H, but she was willing to go behind his back)…hence her call to our house the next morning.

She likely thought I’d kick him out, and he’d turn to her for solace. Clearly she knows nothing about DB!

We rejoice, celebrate having her out of our life. H is pleasantly shocked by my reaction.

March ’03 …ups and downs, trying to “piece” this M back together. Trust issues, trying to process all of the hurt, all of the incredible details. H projects his behaviours onto me and accuses me of “flirting” on the bb, private messaging etc.

April ’03 We take a weekend trip together. Mostly good.

May 1st ’03 We celebrate our 11th anniversary…I start a marathon of teaching.

Managed the extra work load this summer just fine....already prepping for Fall courses. Things have steadily improved over the summer.

Sometime in July we started e-mailing and I received several very heartwarming, tear-jerking, wonderful messages from CJ voicing his feelings about what he'd done and how he feels now.

So all in all I feel I AM getting Closer!!!

(Closer to the life and M I want!!! )

Shiny
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/04/03 09:15 PM
Pammy Pam..you silly muffin...you're supposed to add #1 when you're the first poster on a thread. I thought I was, but you snuck in while I was re-adding the colour and emoticons to my summary!!

Well today was nice. I went to a local diner for lunch with my parents. Wonton soup...yum! Then did some grocery shopping, dropped off my "jug 'o pee" to the lab and then met up with my Mom to go visit Nana.

She's been in a transitional nursing home for a couple of weeks, and sad to say, I was a little afraid to go visit her there. My aunt had painted a picture of utter despair and horror, but the place wasn't that bad. She was up and dressed and walking around in her walker.

We took her outside and visited with some other patients, she really seemed to enjoy our visit.

Now I'm just about to start dinner...poor CJ, he kind of miscalculated on the prep time for the Calzones last night and by the time they were done (I HAD offered to help!) it was nearly 10 p.m.

I'd started to feel nauseated and light headed at around 8:30. (9 1/2 hours is a long time to go between lunch and dinner )...thus I didn't enjoy it as much as it deserved...and felt pretty lousy for the rest of the night.

Oh well, today's better!

Shiny

P.S....in giving the weight gain more thought the other similarity that jumps out at me is that on both of those other occasions there was a sexual implication. The first time, last year with x-fiance, our sexlife had ground to a halt (he was depressed, I had a relapse of Ulcerative Colitis)...the next time was after things "cooled off" with CJ and I our second year together....hmmmmm.

Things are STILL very much lacking in this department and I imagine I had HOPED it would be much better as things ARE better in most other areas.
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/05/03 05:58 AM
As I finish my 3 a.m. tuna sandwich, I'm revisiting the notion of replacing sexual urges with food.

Tell me, has anyone out there actually managed to siginificantly improve a lacking sex life? Even if it's been lacking for many years???

I'd LOVE to hear something that will give me HOPE!

Shiny
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/05/03 06:57 AM
Okay, now it's nearly 4 a.m.

Just couldn't get to sleep until I journalled a thought that came up.

Now bear in mind the time and the fact that I'm a little fuzzy...


I’ve been pondering the issue of forgiveness. I know that it is not an “all at once” experience for me. Something Dr. Phil says over and over on his shows about Infidelity, and that is that it is very hard to forgive and move on until the hurt partner KNOWS that their spouse GETS what they put you through.

I know that the very same is true of US getting the stuff that our S’s have been aggrieved about for years. To THEIR satisfaction…true validation and ownership, sincere apologies. I feel I have done this when the subject of my former control (and current slip-ups) sarcasm, hurtful words and deeds has arisen. I have validated and cried in shame and remorse.

This particular issue came up the other day and has been reinforced for me by TV programs about people having to pack up, sell their house, and move.

CJ commented that it would be a nightmare to pack up and organize all of our 10 year accumulation. I agreed with him, made comments about our books alone…

What caught me inside, at that moment, was the stab of terror that I felt when CJ was ready to hop on a plane, leave this place and our three cats and me forever and somehow let the lawyers and ME figure it all out!!!

I was barely functional, still ill with kidney problems, awaiting news on further surgery.

Does he have any real grasp on HOW that possibility made me feel? Panicked, shocked, overwhelmed, gut-wrenching (looking at the painting BIL did for our wedding, our initials in a heart hidden on a tree)….AGONY, FEAR.

Is there ANY point to sharing this? It seems to me that if I WERE to share it (I'd craft an e-mail as that has been working well with us) and CJ was to validate how terrifying that must have been and apologize….I could probably say those words…”I Forgive you”.

Is this, perhaps how it needs to go? Not all at once, but as it comes up for me?

Will this drag CJ down, or can this move BOTH of us further into a more intimate and mature M?


Feedback please!

Shiny
Posted By: uvision Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/05/03 07:03 AM
Quoting shinybear:
Tell me, has anyone out there actually managed to siginificantly improve a lacking sex life? Even if it's been lacking for many years???
Shiny


I have, actually. But the solution may not be quite applicable to your situation.
Posted By: sage Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/05/03 11:48 AM
Hey Shiny,

Thanks for posting about Minnie1 on Tiel's thread...I tried to put out an SOS to you yesterday am to go visit Minnie but your thread was locked!!!!

Sage
Posted By: lostlove Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/05/03 12:07 PM
hey shiny,

I don't know if they'll ever actually "understand" how we felt or feel about what they did...honestly now having been through it yourself and knowing what it feels like, is it what you would have imagined it to be (not saying we all sit and ponder).

perhaps a bit of empathy is what you are seeking from cj...
in order to give that forgiveness...

perhaps letting him read your journal entry from that time might help...but then it may hurt too...

is it possible for you to accpet that he does feel bad about what he did and his empathy is shown to you by being supportive of you.

I know that my h will never know what I went through...a mere glimps is about all he could see...he will never understand the pain I suffered no matter how I try to explain...it's just one of those things you don't know until you've been through it...heck my mil continuously tried to claim that she knew how I felt and it pissed me off...no one knows until they've been there nothing comes close.

LL
Posted By: KutieKat Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/05/03 01:10 PM
i wonder too shiny if waiting for just the right conversation from our spouses is just another cheeseless tunnel.

i have come to grips with the fact that i will never hear the words i want to hear from my husband regarding the affair. the remourse i think that he should feel. doesn't make the wanting of it go away tho. maybe with time yes, but not at the moment.

kitti
Posted By: Trying24now Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/05/03 01:57 PM
Shiny,

Good questions.

I must admit that my forgiveness will come with a price, and that price is ownership of responsibility by both of us.

I know that for me, before I can allow my H to come home again, I will NEED to know that he has acknowledged what he's done (for himself), that he owns the decision process that he used to make his destructive choices and that he will now SEE if and when those destructive thoughts begin to re-emerge that he will be able to deal with them appropriately this time.

I feel that if my H doesn't really review the patterns that he developed, that took us through this hell, then there is a chance that he could choose this road again in the future when times are tough between us.

I need to know that he absolutely truly knows that what he did IS NOT and NEVER WILL BE the answer to disharmony in our marriage.

I need to know that he realizes that there are no secret escape routes from unhappiness that the only way to regain happiness is to openly and honestly address his issues with me and give me an opportunity to make any reasonable changes necessary to make him happy again.

I do not want to sweep anything under the rug, I want it all dealt with. I want to own my responsibility in the downfall of our R and I want him to own all of his as well.
I want our NEW R and M to be built on complete and total trust and faith in each other. I don't want a watered down version of the old M. I want a new one.
T2
Posted By: Dagny Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/05/03 03:00 PM
Shiny,

What is not bringing up the conversation doing to you? Is it eating inside you and affecting the way you act? Would getting it out there with the possiblity he say the words worth the risk that he doesn't?

Jackie
Posted By: holdingon Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/05/03 03:03 PM
Shiny,
I have a difficult question over on my thread in MLC. Can you check it out, please?
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/05/03 04:24 PM
Thanks all!

LL, I'm not so sure that it would be fruitless. I mean when I GOT what my behaviours had done to CJ over the years I was horrified! I FELT his pain, the sense of belittlement, dismissal, I SAW things from his side and spoke the words FOR him.

THAT is true empathy. CJ is a very sensitive person. He was walking around in a daze in those days, many of the things I have a hard time forgiving are like this one.

It MIGHT help me let go if I felt he KNEW what that was like for me. He told me once that he could not process all of the pain he brought into our M all at once as it would overwhelm him (this was early in MC).

Still not doing anything with this notion...just kicking it around.

Shiny
Posted By: lostlove Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/05/03 04:57 PM
Quoting shinybear:
Thanks all!

LL, I'm not so sure that it would be fruitless. I mean when I GOT what my behaviours had done to CJ over the years I was horrified! I FELT his pain, the sense of belittlement, dismissal, I SAW things from his side and spoke the words FOR him.
do you think he doesnt' get it? or just hasn't spoken your words for you?
THAT is true empathy. CJ is a very sensitive person. He was walking around in a daze in those days, many of the things I have a hard time forgiving are like this one.

It MIGHT help me let go if I felt he KNEW what that was like for me. again I'll say..do you think it possible for one to truly KNOW what it is like until they themselves are put in that position? He told me once that he could not process all of the pain he brought into our M all at once as it would overwhelm him (this was early in MC). a very wise statement!

Still not doing anything with this notion...just kicking it around. by kicking it around you certainly are doing something with it.

Shiny
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/05/03 07:25 PM
Well, LL I suppose a person can never know EXACTLY what another went through, but there are degrees of "getting it".

I suppose when he brought up what a nightmare it would be for the TWO of us to pack up and sell this house, it said to me that he really didn't realize/remember that he ALMOST left me alone, sick, finacially strapped, with the whole bloody mess!

I sometimes think that he was so fogged out then that he did things he doesn't even remember...for example when I asked why he was so cruel about his STD results (he stormed in an threw the negative report down in front of me saying, in a nasty tone, here you can put that with your evidence)...he denies having done any such thing!!!

Shiny
Posted By: lostlove Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/05/03 07:35 PM
Quote:

Well, LL I suppose a person can never know EXACTLY what another went through, but there are degrees of "getting it".



I kinda get the feeling I'm pushing some of the wrong buttons with you shiny.

Quote:

I suppose when he brought up what a nightmare it would be for the TWO of us to pack up and sell this house, it said to me that he really didn't realize/remember that he ALMOST left me alone, sick, finacially strapped, with the whole bloody mess!



or maybe it was a small way of recognizing what a nightmare you faced in having to think that it might come to that?

Quote:

I sometimes think that he was so fogged out then that he did things he doesn't even remember...for example when I asked why he was so cruel about his STD results (he stormed in an threw the negative report down in front of me saying, in a nasty tone, here you can put that with your evidence)...he denies having done any such thing!!!



my h too doesn't recall saying lot's and lot's of hurtful things...doesn't recall a whole lot of stuff...does it mean they're blind? I would like to think it means they are trying to focus on the positive and for whatever reason (not to excuse themselves) have forgotten such things. I've read somewhere before (probably john grey stuff) that us womenfolk have this tendancy to bring up old stuff into new discussions and the men just don't seem to do that...it throws them...if enough time has passed from one event to the next the previous is forgotten and out of bounds. would that be the case with his crappy attitude with the std report incident?

LL
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/05/03 07:46 PM
Hi LL, no, not pushing any wrong buttons, just making me think...that's always welcome!

One of the things that makes things different in my sitch is that CJ and I have many Mars/Venus things in gender reversal.

For example, CJ is the one with the stellar memory. I mean DETAILS from years and years ago. He is also the one who can't "get in the mood" if things are not great between us.

(and now they are....still not "in the mood" )

LL, CJ has NO trouble digging up incidents from 11, 8, 5, 3 years ago in which I was hurtful to him. He has brought up one particular incident when I called him an idiot for forgetting my vodka at home when we got to a party.

I listen to him tell it, I validate how insensitive, bossy, entitled and belittling I was to him, how I am SOOO sorry to have made him feel that way, that he in NO way deserved to be treated in that manner etc.

Is not my empathy and validation helping him to heal the hurt from those incidents?

When he mentioned the moving thing the other day I got NO sense that there was any reference to last year. It's as though that never happened.

Yet MY "sins" are recalled in stunning detail.

Shiny
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/05/03 08:01 PM
Folks, another idea kept floating around in my mind as I lay in bed, unsleeping until the early hours of the morning.

I have a life philosophy that may sound whacked to other people, but here goes.

I believe in an afterlife. I don't know what it looks like, but I believe that there IS a life review. I believe that WE stand in judgement on ourselves.

I believe that we go through our past experiences, good and bad and relive them from the POV's of the people we've helped AND the people we've hurt.

Could there be a worse hell for someone like Hitler than to live through the agony, grief and horror he inflicted on millions of people?

I THINK that part of our life journey is to acknowledge and atone for our part in hurting others, and that if we don't do it here, we'll just have to do it on the other side.

Thus PART of my wanting CJ to "get it" about these incidents is to help him work through it NOW vs Later. Same for me and the miriad of ways I've hurt him. I'd rather atone and make up for it NOW!

Probably not making much sense, but what the heck!

Shiny
Posted By: jethro Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/05/03 08:50 PM
Hi SB.

Quote:

I’ve been pondering the issue of forgiveness. I know that it is not an “all at once” experience for me. Something Dr. Phil says over and over on his shows about Infidelity, and that is that it is very hard to forgive and move on until the hurt partner KNOWS that their spouse GETS what they put you through.
I, many times, feel like my W doesn't "really" get it...although she's expressed remorse over what she's done. You know, as yucky (or not) as this may sound, I think when our Ses are finally in a place where they care for us like they used to, they will, at some moment, ponder what it would be like to have US do the same to them. I think, in this moment, they will understand. Until then...well, it's for us to be patient I think.

Also, I do KNOW for a fact that my W won't bring up her regretfulness because she doesn't want to put me through the muck once again...and she doesn't like to revisit the past, as it makes her realize her own failability. Avoidance or self-preservation?

Anyway, my .02. And I'm sure he regrets what he did, Shiny...I'm sure he does...

jethro
Posted By: lostlove Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/05/03 10:06 PM
Quote:

When he mentioned the moving thing the other day I got NO sense that there was any reference to last year. It's as though that never happened.



is there any way we (well you) could look at this as he's moved beyond thinking of fleeing and is happy with me (you) here (there) and therefore didn't give any thought to the comment. That he is looking toward the future and not dweling in the past.

LL
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/06/03 12:29 AM
Quote:

is there any way we (well you) could look at this as he's moved beyond thinking of fleeing and is happy with me (you) here (there) and therefore didn't give any thought to the comment. That he is looking toward the future and not dweling in the past.

LL





Absolutely, LL. That's the sense I got from our conversation and YES that was a very good feeling indeed!

Jethro, you make a good point.

I wonder myself if these urges to bring up the hurts and be validated are "payback" of some kind.

I KNOW CJ is remorseful, I know the kind of person he is and it cannot be otherwise.

I'm just still baffled by the person he WAS, the person who did so many outrageous and hurtful things...

Who WAS that guy? Could he return?

But then is it not equally valid for CJ to remember my past behaviours and wonder if SHE might not return?

I had all manner of odd thoughts today. I thought: what if he's still in touch with her? and I played out in my mind how he would be OUT OF HERE in a flash.

Not after how far we've come, the added betrayal would be too much.

Then I thought of asking how HE would feel now if I were to announce that instead of being on the bb, I'd been conducting an EA and was sure my "soul mate" lived across country...I'm outta here...bye bye!

What is this? Revenge? I think in part my general health of late has fed into these feelings. Going for more tests on my kidney revisits the vulnerability I felt all of last year when our M was very much in question.

So I think it wise if I sit with these feelings, pray and meditate and see what is really underneath it all.

Thanks everyone!

Shiny
Posted By: love_endures4ever Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/06/03 12:46 AM
Shiny

Quote:

Then I thought of asking how HE would feel now if I were to announce that instead of being on the bb, I'd been conducting an EA and was sure my "soul mate" lived across country...I'm outta here...bye bye!


Even though my H isn't back yet I sometimes fantasize about him coming back and me saying "get out" I never wanted you back I justed wanted to get even. Or when he comes back have my own PA and do what he did to me so he knows what kind of hell he put me through. I did tell him that I had thought about it because a guy I worked with was always very friendly, this was over a year ago, my life wasn't so great either. In a way I think I was going through my own MLC up until the bomb, but was starting to come out of it at the same time he left.

Cathy
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/06/03 07:17 PM
Well the day started out nicely...if you know what I mean!

Now just what spurred this, I don't really know. Other than I've been feeling poorly of late and CJ has been rather solicitous and concerned.

Got my hair trimmed by SIL (long face-framing layers, back still growing!) and now we're off to a BBQ at B & J's. The weather is fooling us into thinking it's still summer, low 80's today with a nice breeze.

Shiny
Posted By: WillWin Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/06/03 07:20 PM
Do not have too much fun...

Take care.
Posted By: Jeannine Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/06/03 10:23 PM
Well the day started out nicely...if you know what I mean!

Hey, hey.

Jeannine
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/07/03 03:19 PM
Good Afternoon Shiny!

I'm jealous. But happy for you that your day yesterday started out so nicely!!!

Hope you guys had a great evening at the BBQ. It was an awesome evening here weatherwise.

So are you ready for that 7:30 wake up alarm in the morning????
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/07/03 06:40 PM
Hell NO, Pam....we got home at around 3 this morning...I was wide awake, checked my e-mail, printed some stuff out, didn't get to sleep till, oh, 5 or so.

Slept till nearly 2, so I think I'm in for a bit of trouble tonight and tomorrow morning. Good thing I'm not a typical zoned out zombie type night owl, when I HAVE to get up early, I can do so with few cobwebs.

Bet I'll be zonked by tomorrow evening though!

The BBQ was fun. Pal D (as in D&H) took me for a "ride" on his motorcycle. WOW! What a RUSH! We topped 135 mph on a small strip of highway on the edge of town. Had H not strapped my helmet on really tight, the sucker would have flown right off my head!

Everyone had a good chuckle at my expense as not only was my hair soaked in sweat and tangled beyond belief, but I had sweat marks around my waist and....in the crotch area!

Honestly, I had to hang on so tight, and brace for the breaking, that my arms feel like I did a workout yesterday!

At around 12 we brought D & H to my sis and bil's for the end of their Hawaiian party. Nice time all around....except for the very end.

It was getting chilly out, which is why I brought my leather jacket out of the car when we got there. CJ was still in a T-shirt. Rather suddenly (it seems) he said "either we're leaving or I'm getting my jacket".

Well it took some time to get D and H going and CJ seemed a bit put out. (note "seemed"). He left and waited for me in the car (I was driving).

I asked him what was wrong...he said he was just cold. But of course I had to push it and ask him again as he was very quiet on the ride.

He got rather defensive and then said that he wasn't talking because "I" don't like conversation while I'm driving. I said "since when?". He said "since you blamed me for rear-ending that car".

(This was an inicident about 3 years ago when indeed we were bickering after picking him up from work and I miscalculated and tapped the bumper of a car in front of us...at the time I DID say that it was due to the distraction of our conversation).

This just kind of set the rest of the evening OFF and we didn't really speak much after that. He went to sleep soon after we got home.

But he made breakfast this morning (um, afternoon ) and helped me try to get the mustard stains out of my best white top .

Little bit anxious about facing 600 new students tomorrow, but as always, I'm sure it will go fine.

Shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/07/03 09:13 PM
Good Evening,

I just love reading your thread or your posts to me. I can be down or in a funk and read and you pick my whole mood up! Think I'm just sort of blah today over being unhappy with myself over yesterday.

I bet you don't end up in bed too early tonight either. I wish I didn't feel so tired all the time now. Don't know if it is all the work around the house just catching up with me or added stress or the medication. But I don't like it.

I CAN'T imagine 135 on a motorcycle! Geeze never a dull moment is there?

You know maybe CJ was tired and it was probably not the best time to hash it out with emotions a bit up anyway. I wish I were better at letting things go instead of trying to resolve it right now!

Looks like it worked for you letting it go, since he did breakfast and helped with your stains!

I have ABSOLUTE TOTAL CONFIDENCE in you that it will be fine tomorrow.
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/08/03 09:23 AM
Hey Shiny just in case you pop on before heading out this morning.

GOOD MORNING & GOOD LUCK today!
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/08/03 11:46 PM
Thanks, Pam!

Well I didn't get to sleep early (2:30 or so) but did manage to get up right on time at 7:20. Ugh!

I am WIPED OUT...classes went well but this is going to be one gruelling year. On my feet from 9 until 3...my feet are killing me!

Shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/09/03 12:43 AM
Hi Shiny,

Hope you feel better tomorrow. Do you work all week?

I would not be able to do on my feel all day like that, hope you adjust to it quickly!

Bet you call it a night early tonight!
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/09/03 12:49 AM
Just about to sign off, actually Pam! Maybe catch some T.V. and turn in early (like before 1:00 )

Problem is, I work from home tomorrow (thank GOD) and unless I excert amazing will-power, I'll probably sleep in tomorrow and start the whole problem over again.

HEY...could be worse...I could have NO job!

Shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/09/03 01:04 AM
Well, since you are working from home tomorrow I will tell you Good Morning!

Posted a question for you on my thread.
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/09/03 03:16 PM
Well that was a crappy start to the day. Last night CJ was asked by D to go play golf today. He asked me, and I said, sincerely, “go for it”.

He got ready while I was still in bed, but awake. I asked him if he was taking our car or getting a lift. He said “our car, why did you need it?” I said “No, just if you’re going to be gone over dinner time, we have no groceries”. He said “No!, I need to get back here for 3 to do my school work”.

Well FORGIVE me if that just sounded odd. The ONE day he takes this summer, on his own, to do SOMETHING other than school work and he needs to get back by 3? (they were meeting at noon). I always thought golf was a day long event.

So he rephrased it…"I WANT to get back by three". Then he said “I don’t want to have this conversation while you are asleep” What? I was wide awake and told him so. I’d been awake since he started getting ready, calling D etc. But in fairness, he didn’t know that.

So he gets on me again about resenting his school work. He accuses me of “raining on his parade”. I try to explain that I thought this was to be a day off for him, he says it’s just a break in a day of things he LIKES to do (the schoolwork, which he's already worked on this morning).

I bring up again the # of hours per week he’s on there…in the context of if he’s on there for 12 hours a day, other things slide! Like the grocery situation. I was hoping to do that after class but I was too exhausted to stay upright.

I AM a little scared about this school year for me, in that it is a much heavier load than I am used to and wouldn’t you know it? My low fever is still around and then last night the kidney pain started. So I don’t even know if I’ll be able to teach, whether I’ll need another surgery blah blah blah.

He accuses me of not supporting this educational endeavour, yet I ask about his assignments, listen to him bounce ideas off of me, offer ideas back. It is the TIME that gets to me. The other night when he made calzones, he “worked” until 7:00 (after asking at 5 if a 7:30 dinner time was good…yes!) pushing dinner back to nearly 10…at which point I was too ill to enjoy it.

Yesterday when I got home, I just crashed on the couch and listened to Dr. Phil and then Oprah. Couldn’t even move. I told him when I got in at 3:00 that I hadn’t had time for lunch and would grab a burger soon. He said, “yeah, maybe me too, later. I just have XYZ to finish up”. I know now that this does NOT mean he will be off the computer any time soon.

So he worked on. At 4 he offered to go get the burgers at 5. Okay, think I can hold on that long. 5:05 he says…just a little more work…Well, I’d gone from 8:00 to then without food and I KNOW what that does to me. I felt like this: why can’t he keep these promises? His “work” is there, on line, 24 hours a day. The only time limits are when assignments are due (not the case then).

So I said “Please go now, or I’ll go get it, you’re going to be back working all night anyway” (not the best phrasing, I KNOW!) What I meant by this is “what’s the difference if you take a half hour off now, or in 20 minutes?

He got defensive…”you’re assuming I’ll be working all night?”

Yet after we ate our burgers, I came here to work on my school stuff…and he was back on line for most of the night.

So this morning, I could have done a better job of validating the other stuff he DOES do around here…but honestly at the time, those things just seemed like stuff he SHOULD be doing…mowing the lawn? Picking up sausages for the BBQ on Sat? Cleaning the bathroom (okay that one I really appreciate!).

I guess I was projecting into this rather overwhelming future I glimpsed yesterday through my exhaustion…one in which I crawl home from work, exhausted and ill, unable to do my usual “running around” for house supplies and groceries. To find CJ happily working away while we live in filth and eat cheap take-out.

Can you say “backslide”?????


Shiny

P.S. Another thought just hit me...when CJ got the offer of golf today, I secretly rejoiced in the thought of having the house to myself for an entire afternoon or more.

It has been AGES...I saw myself listening to music while I ate lunch, doing some puttering, making some phone calls, doing a long overdue workout (kidney willing).

So I suppose hearing him say he needed to be back by three was a bit of a double whammy.
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/09/03 03:27 PM
Hope you start feeling better soon.

Things always seem more overwhelming when you are tired I think!

Enjoy what time you have the house to yourself!

Just rereading some of my old posts and you told me one time to be careful what you ask for!!

So Have an enjoyable afternoon and a FUN evening when CJ gets home.
Posted By: sage Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/09/03 03:46 PM
Hey Shiny,

first off, girlfriend, I'm sorry that you're not feeling well. Seems like that must have a tremendous impact on EVERYTHING!

Can I turn on my "mother mode" for a second? (This would be exactly the kind of thing that my h would HATE)....I'm concerned that your sleep patterns and your eating patterns (or shall I say...your non-eating patterns for a long period of time) may be making your tiredness/health even worse. Of course you know what's best for you...just seems that you keep a fairly erratic schedule of eating and sleeping. Maybe regulating that somewhat would at least help with the exhaustion?

Allrighty...since you and CJ have entered a NEW phase where you are both MUCH busier than before...is it time for a logical "this is what you'll do, this is what I'll do, and this is what we'll let slide" discussion? Maybe that could circumvent some of the BRAIN ADD-ONs I saw in your post ... your "SHOULDs" when talking about CJ doing stuff around the house and his "you're not supporting me" when you raised an issue. Why not get the practical stuff off the table if that kind of approach would work for you?

Also, how about putting some time limits around how long you are willing to wait for things...like, if he says he'll cook dinner at 7:30 and 8pm rolls around, let him know unjudgementally that you're going to put another plan in place?

It may be that you guys won't be able to keep up your schedules and do all the same stuff you used to...why not figure out what you're ok with?

Let's see...other stuff...sounds like a lack of "shiny alone" time may also be clouding some of the issues...what can you do to get more of that?

Sending you health thoughts and a well-cooked, on time meal.

Sage
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/09/03 03:55 PM
Just read Sage's post.

Is she good or what!!!!!!!

I second everything she just said, some of it was sort of in my head but never comes out like she said it!

Please take care of Shiny, I like her and who would tell me Good Morning?
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/09/03 04:40 PM
you guys are sooooos sweet!

Yes Sage, I really need to figure out a decent plan for meals. Last year it was easy...breakfast at 8, lunch at 1, dinner around 7. Since I'm now teaching until 2:30, and don't get out of there till nearly three...it's just not good!

As for the sleep, I think that after this week it will be much better. Already I got to bed a bit earlier last night, got up before noon today! Should make it easier to get to sleep tonight.

I DO think that having had to do the urine collections and waiting for my urologist app't next week has been preying on me. I've been doing a good job of ignoring my kidney problem, but the fact is...it has been full of stones for a year now. How big they are now is anyone's guess.

Me being the sole "bread winner" puts extra pressure on. Also, as CJ was not at ALL supportive of me when I was ill last year, it brings back feelings of terrible vulnerability.

I agree that CJ and I need to sit down and discuss both of our needs and expecations for this next year.

Why is it still sticking in my craw (how's that for an expression from the past???) that he has NOT made the time to call or visit the accountants he hired to fix the income tax fiasco of 2000??? Girls, we MAY have as much as 10 thousand dollars owing to us!!! I KNOW he didn't file taxes for 2002, I'm not even sure if he picked up the proper papers for it from his office before he was "structured out".

Is it just me, or does this seem ludicrously irresponsible???

We also have a leak under our washing machine which has been ongoing for months now...I just did a couple of loads on Sunday and noticed patches of disgusting mould growing on the towel he threw in front of the machine to sop up the water. I mentioned it and he said "I'll take a look at it, it's probably...." Has he looked? Nope.

Also, the basement is back to looking like a bottle factory. Cases and cases of beer empties, dozens of empty wine bottles. We have curb-side recycling and the beer store is literally a 1 minute drive from here.

Sure, I could load that stuff up and do it myself. But I imagine that just like the mess in the yard, CJ would butt in and ask why I'm doing it...promise to do it himself (as he did a YEAR ago) and then NOT.

So here's where my resentment of his time on-line is based. There are things that he's promised to take care of that he ISN'T...things which if he took out even an hour a day, he COULD.

Perhaps it's a sense of deja vu...when he got caught up in the chat lines and A's he had no interest or time for anything around here. Now it's school, but the results around here are the same.

Oh crap, I gotta get off here and do some work on my teaching dossier.

I'm going to think about an e-mail to send to CJ while I work. I'll post it here first.

Shiny
Posted By: lostlove Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/09/03 05:01 PM
Quote:

Sure, I could load that stuff up and do it myself. But I imagine that just like the mess in the yard, CJ would butt in and ask why I'm doing it...promise to do it himself (as he did a YEAR ago) and then NOT.


try not to imagine what he will do in reaction to your taking action with things that are bothering you... I'm sure he'd rather you get rid of the mess that is causing you resentment rather than leaving it there and harboring ill feelings toward him for it not being cleaned. I could easily sit and wait for h to get around to something that isn't bothering him but is grating on my nerves...or I could take action because I want it done and if by chance he were to say...why are you doing that...I said I would take care of it...I'd try to simply say I had the time and just wanted to get it started. If he then chose to help fine, if not..well then what was bothering me got done.

sharing a home can lead to many "problems" when things are expected to be taken care of by one or the other but the lines aren't clear...if it seems that the basement doesn't bother cj then perhaps keeping it clear of bottles shouldn't be his "job" but something that is more significant to him should be.

LL
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/09/03 05:09 PM
Okay, so I couldn't settle in to work until I got this draft done. Haven't sent it yet of course!


Dear CJ

I’m very sorry for your send off this morning. When Doug called last night I was thrilled that you were getting out of the house to do something fun on your own for the first time this summer.

I’ll admit that I was also happy for the opportunity to have the house to myself for a day. Something that I have not had in a very long time. I envisioned working, making some phone calls and doing a full work out (kidney willing).

I think we need to sit down and perhaps draw up a game plan for how to handle our schedules and expectations for this school year.

I was a bit surprised by how exhausted I was after yesterday’s classes. I am also quite anxious about the state of my kidney health. The low fever remains, the pain is persisting today, although low grade. My appointment is next week. I am NOT thinking the worst, but there are some less than great possible outcomes here.

So all of this has been feeding my rather down mood of late, not to mention this never-ending headache. FYI I am in need of a neck rub 24 hours a day, so any time you care to offer would be great.

About your school work. Yes, you are spending more time on that than either of us anticipated at first. I am PROUD of how well you are doing, and very happy that you are finding it so valuable.

YES, you are doing other stuff…cleaning, mowing, cooking…and I DO appreciate it.

What bothers me I suppose, are some of the bigger things that continue to slide. I can’t quite grasp how, when you know it bothers me to no end, you have made no move to conclude the income tax fiasco of 2000. I KNOW you said you didn’t feel it was urgent, but it is something that bothers me a great deal. Do you have the income tax info for 2002? Why is this something you keep promising to do and then not do it??

When I did laundry on Sunday I noticed large patches of mould on the towel in front of the washer. You mentioned what the problem could be and that you’d look at it.

Why do we have so many empty beer cases when we live one minute away from the beer store? Can’t some of the empty wine bottles go out with the recycling?

And I know that you’re not as good as I am at judging how long dinner preps take, but when you made the calzones, do you remember asking if 7:30 was a good time to eat?
I said yes. It was 5:00 then, but you kept working until nearly 7:00. We ate at nearly 10:00 and I was too ill by that time to enjoy it.

I suppose what I should have done is just made myself dinner? I kept offering to help so as to get it ready sooner, but I guess you wanted to do the whole thing for me. Which is sweet, but the timing really sucked!

I think I’m kind of rambling now, so I’ll try to sum up what I intended by this missive. I think we should sit down and discuss how we can BOTH make the upcoming months productive, peaceful, and fulfilling.

Love Susan

P.S. And yes, I caught the sarcastic edge to my comment about your e-mail about cutting back significantly on your school work…I’m sorry.

That is, however, another example of something you “promise” that you don’t follow through on. I don’t WANT you to sacrifice your grades or learning experience, I just feel that there must be a little middle ground we can reach somehow.
Posted By: lostlove Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/09/03 05:18 PM
Quoting shinybear:
Okay, so I couldn't settle in to work until I got this draft done. Haven't sent it yet of course!


Dear CJ

I’m very sorry for your send off this morning. When Doug called last night I was thrilled that you were getting out of the house to do something fun on your own for the first time this summer.

I’ll admit that I was also happy for the opportunity to have the house to myself for a day. Something that I have not had in a very long time. I envisioned working, making some phone calls and doing a full work out (kidney willing).

I think we need to sit down and perhaps draw up a game plan for how to handle our schedules and expectations for this school year.

I was a bit surprised by how exhausted I was after yesterday’s classes. I am also quite anxious about the state of my kidney health. The low fever remains, the pain is persisting today, although low grade. My appointment is next week. I am NOT thinking the worst, but there are some less than great possible outcomes here.

So all of this has been feeding my rather down mood of late, not to mention this never-ending headache. FYI I am in need of a neck rub 24 hours a day, so any time you care to offer would be great.

About your school work. Yes, you are spending more time on that than either of us anticipated at first. I am PROUD of how well you are doing, and very happy that you are finding it so valuable.

YES, you are doing other stuff…cleaning, mowing, cooking…and I DO appreciate it.








I think I’m kind of rambling now, so I’ll try to sum up what I intended by this missive. I think we should sit down and discuss how we can BOTH make the upcoming months productive, peaceful, and fulfilling.

Love Susan

P.S. And yes, I caught the sarcastic edge to my comment about your e-mail about cutting back significantly on your school work…I’m sorry.






the other stuff would probably be best addressed during your conversation of how to make the year ahead peacful and productive....

try not to point out the bad things like the calzone incident or the bottles but instead make those things part of your solutions for a peacful year...a schedule for bringing the bottles to whereever they need to go, a dinner schedule etc.

LL
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/09/03 07:16 PM
Yeah, LL, I'm not sending that e-mail. It was more of a venting/journalling kind of thing.

His intentions were good on the calzone night and I don't want to muddy that up. So I think I'll either re-edit and just leave the apology and the suggestion that we work out a schedule and such for the upcoming months.

Just had a nice conversation with H, D's wife...so nice to share stuff with her. I'm going to pass on the 5LL's to her and her H as I think it could do them a whole lot of good too.

Now back to my dossier!

Shiny
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/09/03 07:32 PM
How did I miss this one, LL. I only read your last reply.

I agree with the idea that if it bugs me, I should be the one to do something about it. It IS a bit frustrating, however, when he promises to do these things and then doesn't.

I can't take care of the taxes, it's all in his name, his paperwork etc. I can't fix the washer as I don't have the first clue what even to look at. (I could call a repair guy, but again CJ has said HE'D look at it! ).

But I DO think I'll (quietly) pack up some of those beer cases next few trips out of the house (have to practically drive past the beer store to get anywhere I'm going).

Quote:

sharing a home can lead to many "problems" when things are expected to be taken care of by one or the other but the lines aren't clear...if it seems that the basement doesn't bother cj then perhaps keeping it clear of bottles shouldn't be his "job" but something that is more significant to him should be.

LL


I agree with this too....only problem is, for the life of me I cannot think of anything around the house/yard that CJ considers important. Or more reasonably, more important than his school work.

Seriously. Had I not proposed we jointly take care of the three months of finances it would still not be done. I think even CJ would agree with that.

Thus that leaves me thinking that I would be left responsible for EVERYTHING around here, as things don't seem to bother him much.

Shiny

Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/09/03 07:40 PM
Here's the one I sent:

Dear CJ

I’m very sorry for your send off this morning. When D called last night I was thrilled that you were getting out of the house to do something fun on your own for the first time this summer.

I hope you guys had a blast...hope D wasn't toooo competetive!

I’ll admit that I was also happy for the opportunity to have the house to myself for a day. Something that I have not had in a very long time. I envisioned working, making some phone calls and doing a full work out (kidney willing).

I was a bit surprised by how exhausted I was after yesterday’s classes. I am also quite anxious about the state of my kidney health. The low fever remains, the pain is persisting today, although low grade. My appointment is next week. I am NOT thinking the worst, but there are some less than great possible outcomes here.

So all of this has been feeding my rather down mood of late, not to mention this never-ending headache. FYI I am in need of a neck rub 24 hours a day, so any time you care to offer would be great.

About your school work. Yes, you are spending more time on that than either of us anticipated at first. I am PROUD of how well you are doing, and very happy that you are finding it so valuable.

YES, you are doing other stuff…cleaning, mowing, cooking…and I DO appreciate it.\

Your offer to make lunch for me after school was thoughtful and touching. (Alas tomorrow I have a chiropractor app't at 3:30).

I think perhaps we should sit down and discuss how we can BOTH make the upcoming months productive, peaceful, and fulfilling.

Love Shiny

P.S. And yes, I caught the sarcastic edge to my comment about your e-mail about cutting back significantly on your school work…I’m sorry.

I don’t WANT you to sacrifice your grades or learning experience, I just feel that there must be a little middle ground we can reach somehow.
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/09/03 10:29 PM
Well this is interesting. CJ who "needed"..edit...wanted to be home by 3:00 to do his school stuff is still not home and it's 7:30 p.m.

No phone call either.

H called to see if they were perhaps here. D brought some beers along so perhaps CJ is having more fun on his "day off" than he'd planned!

Plan on being upbeat when he gets home. I did do a wonderful 90 min workout, listened to some tunes..LOUD .

Now to scrounge some dinner.

Shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/09/03 10:40 PM
Any wine to go with dinner????????
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/10/03 02:07 AM
What goes with chef boyardee cheese ravioli?

Nope no wine. CJ got home around 8:30. He had a tiny bit of a glow on (didn't mention the beers), said he had a great time. Apologized for being late. Asked if I was hungry.

DIDN'T TOUCH OR TURN ON HIS COMPUTER AT ALL.

Agreed that it was really nice to go out and enjoy some of our remaining good weather. We watched a cool Health Channel special on the hand...interesting info I can inject into my lectures on neural capacity. He's asleep already and I'll hopefully be there soon myself.

I'm glad he had a good time today, sounds like it was a nice break for D too.

Night all.

Shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/10/03 10:05 AM
Maybe a nice light red, nothing to dry or heavy?

I am glad CJ had a good day, your spirits seem a little better also. Maybe the workout and the Shiny time alone helped.

Hope you have a great day!
Posted By: Shay5 Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/10/03 08:10 PM
Hey Shiny! Just dropping in- sounds like the typical ups and downs in life really- but luckily you had that medical hand special to fall back on you crack me up. We watched a breast reduction and enhancement show that totally bummed me out. Decided H didnt need to see all those breasts- although he did comment on mine being perfect..... but you should have seen those poor women. I dont know how you stomach those shows!! Hope you are well and getting very athletic these days !!
Shay
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/10/03 11:08 PM
Hi All,

Yes it would have to be a light red, wouldn't it, Pam? A merlot perhaps?

Classes went well today, feet not as sore..wore my sandals. Ran around afterwards, called home to find CJ busy trying to fix the washer drain, and then heading out to water the yard. Came home and ordered Chinese take-out.

CJ seemed “off” to me somehow. A little glum?…He did laundry, dishes, and a bunch of other stuff. Hadn’t done any school work today when I got home.

Then mentioned tackling the basement, cleaning out the bird house and repainting it….just seemed a bit eerie, or as if perhaps he’d been on the bb. Didn’t mention it though.

I had some left chest/flank pain after dinner, temp is up a tad more. Not happy about that. Then just as I was cleaning out my hotmail account, Mom calls to tell me that Nana is back in the hospital. Heart failure, lung problems, it seems she’s slipping fast…no 90th birthday party for her, they had to cancel it. I hope she at least makes it to Friday. I will go and see her tomorrow.

It’s been such a long haul for Nana. She’s tired and hurting and wants to “go home” only she thinks she still lives where she raised her kids, she hasn’t lived there in over 20 years.

So feelin’ a bit blue myself right now.

Shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/10/03 11:33 PM
Hi,

{{{{{{{{{{{Shiny}}}}}}}}}}}}}

So sorry about your Nana. Is Friday her 90th birthday?

How soon is your doctors appointment? Can't it be moved up since you are feeling bad?

Maybe CJ is just doing stuff after having a day out yesterday? Maybe you need to send him on a day out more often, at least to get house projects done.

Really glad your feet aren't as sore today. I hate it when I go somewhere and my feet are killing me. Did you get some new shoes?

Hope things are better for you tomorrow. Tonight is a full moon I think it is effecting things! I know they say they can tell when it is a full moon in hospitals. I really think it must effect people some. Almost everyone's thread I read now is having some sort of problems! Including mine! But mine are just me.
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/12/03 08:55 AM
Hi Shiny,

I hope you are doing alright.

{{{{{{{{{{{{Shiny}}}}}}}}}}}}
Posted By: lostlove Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/12/03 02:01 PM
Quoting shinybear:
Folks, another idea kept floating around in my mind as I lay in bed, unsleeping until the early hours of the morning.

I have a life philosophy that may sound whacked to other people, but here goes.

I believe in an afterlife. I don't know what it looks like, but I believe that there IS a life review. I believe that WE stand in judgement on ourselves.

I believe that we go through our past experiences, good and bad and relive them from the POV's of the people we've helped AND the people we've hurt.

Could there be a worse hell for someone like Hitler than to live through the agony, grief and horror he inflicted on millions of people?

I THINK that part of our life journey is to acknowledge and atone for our part in hurting others, and that if we don't do it here, we'll just have to do it on the other side.

Thus PART of my wanting CJ to "get it" about these incidents is to help him work through it NOW vs Later. Same for me and the miriad of ways I've hurt him. I'd rather atone and make up for it NOW!

Probably not making much sense, but what the heck!

Shiny


ahem! I hear ya with this stuff shiny, I really do and I have gotten stuck with it myself..but then I stop and realize that it's not my responsibility to make sure anyone gets all their ducks in a row but unless of course that person is me. Have I gotten it? Will I stand judgement..will I pass or fail...etc...our h's and others will "get it" or not in their own time...all we can do is make sure that we "get it" perhaps lead by example???

I hope your feeling better soon.

LL
Posted By: KutieKat Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/12/03 04:44 PM
shiny

i wanted to reply to this that you posted in my thread...

Quote:

P.S. I think your definition of when you should move to piecing is perhaps too narrow. You may well feel much more like you are piecing before physical intimacy resumes.


here is the thing shiny, and this is based on my religious beliefs. once "intimacy" has occurred - that is the identifying mark of "forgiveness" and "scripturally" if we were "intimate" i would at that point have no basis for divorce. unless of course he does it again and at that time i can make another conscience decision to either stay or go. if i wanted a divorce after we had been "intimate" i could of course get one legally, but scripturally i would not be free to remarry. and neither would he.

since i have already "forgiven" him in my heart, if he decides to leave at this time, he is not free to remarry. i am because he has left me. he would only be free to remarry at the point that i got married first.

BUT - if we become "intimate" then neither of us have grounds.

i hope that made sense. now what this means in regards to piecing?

because i have these beliefs, in my head, i believe he is "with-holding" right now to give me the opportunity to leave with a clear conscience should i still decide to. so him not allowing us to "consumate" the forgiveness means TO ME that he is still sitting on the fence. either for his sake or his belief for mine.

once we have been "intimate" that to me would show that we are ready to work together on this marriage. he knows that step means we (me) cannot go back, we have to make it work.

please tell me that made sense?

that is the reason i am waiting for intimacy before i come to piecing.

kitti
Posted By: lostlove Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/12/03 04:52 PM
Quote:

once we have been "intimate" that to me would show that we are ready to work together on this marriage. he knows that step means we (me) cannot go back, we have to make it work.


kitty,

don't know how specific you are being with the word "intimate" but I will tell you that when my h first started to come around...and was trying to come home...though he would intitate physcial contact he would not intitate the actual act itself...he knew how I felt about it...and left it to be my decision when I was ready for it.

I'm saying this because you may be making some assumptions about your h's thinking and why he may not be initiating things...since he was the one to stray perhaps he's leaving it to you to inititate he may not feel it's his place to do so.

just a thought.

LL
Posted By: KAW Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/12/03 04:54 PM
Working on my weekly trek around the place...

I'm sorry to hear about your Nana. There's no getting around it being a sorrowful time when a loved one approaches the end of their journey on this Earth even when they had such a long haul.

Would like to hear what CJ's response to your email was. The way you describe CJ's procrastination, I'm wonder if reason is not two-fold. One being is CJ the kind of person that loses all sense of time while concentrating on a task? If he is not watching a clock, his sense of time that has elapse may be slower than actual. Does he often wonder where the time went after wrapping something up?

It seems certain that when CJ promises to take of something, he has a different timeline to when he is agreeing to take care of it than you do. A follow-up to his promise to take care of something could be to agree upon by when. This way you both agree to the others expectations of what certain schedules are and end up on the same page.

Actually, one other thing ... . Is it possible too, that CJ looks at each promise as an individual item and doesn't put 1 + 1 together to see the pattern of frequently missing schedules? It like he just doesn't realize the trend of missing one after another until it already has your attention and start building resentment from it.

It might be best to approach him about these "broader" points and then mention the taxes and online classes as a way to support your view. It might avoid CJ thinking you are attacking him on just those particular tasks if he doesn't see the connection there and interprets it as you being unsupportive of what he is doing.

Like you did with the bills, perhaps putting a "gameplan" in place to tackle things as a team. Even, if you can't directly help like with the taxes ... ask, "What can I do that will help you in getting this done?" As I had found out, sometimes you have to take one for the "Gipper" in order to get others to pitch in.

'til later,
KAW
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/12/03 09:21 PM
So THAT'S how I get others to post to me...just stay off of my own thread for a day!

Hi LL!

Yup and Yup...after I posted my "after life philosophy" I just kind of laughed at myself. Not the belief, but my half-A$$ed reasoning about making it easier on CJ if he atones now!!! The words..."So I'm God now?" came to mind.

Shiny
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/12/03 09:26 PM
Thanks KK, your explanation clears a lot of that up for me.

I respect your stance on this issue. I never really thought about it that way in my case as CJ was sleeping with me before I knew about OW. Then when I found out about her, I was lead to believe they were broken up.

We weren't intimate again until I "thought" we were piecing.

Shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/12/03 09:39 PM
And is this any sort of update after being away for a whole day?????????????

Climbing the walls tonight building stress up inside me, need some diversion!
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/12/03 09:54 PM
Hi KAW, very thrilled I'm on your "hit list"

I had a very good visit with my Nana today. At first two other younger grandsons were there, trying to cheer her up, then her 81 year old SIL showed up, then my youngest aunt C. But C went for coffee, which gave me the opp to be with Nana alone.

I sat beside her, put my arm around her and leaned my head on hers. She started tearing up and said "Oh, Shiny, I don't know"... so I hugged her tighter and said..."tell me, Nana"

So we had a REAL conversation about her situation. She said that she just can't be "happy" all the time, I said it is alright to cry, it's alright to be afraid. That our bodies aren't made to last forever, but our souls ARE.

I'd brought her a mauve angel bear stuffy which she was thrilled with. I asked her what she was going to name it and she said "Edward"...her H who died in 1965 at the age of 49. I asked if she feels Grandpa near her...she said yes, all the time. We hugged, cried, and she said "Sometimes you just have to let go" and I said "yes".

Aunt C comes back in at this point, sees us crying and says "What's this? No tears on your birthday...cheery cheery ".

I sat beside Nana for another half hour or so, chatting with both of them. Recounting all of the wonderful things she'd done for me, funny moments. When another grandkid showed up it was time for me to leave. I gave her a loooong deep hug and she whispered "Thank you so much"

I KNOW she meant for LETTING her talk about how she really feels.

I talked with Aunt C in the corridor and asked if she was ready to let her mom go. She's not. She started to cry, I hugged her and told her about the conversation I had with Nana. Just before I left, she said "Maybe Mom is hanging on for me" BINGO! I told her I'd thought of that some time ago.

This aunt is a full 18 years younger than the other 3 siblings. This is much harder on her. I hope she can come to the point where she, too, can be "real" with Nana.

I am at peace. She made it to 90, she's had a full wonderful life. She doesn't need to suffer any more.

***************************************************

And now about the e-mail. KAW I sent only that abbreviated version, just suggesting we talk and find a balance that works for us both.

He did respond, maybe I still have it and can post it here:





Hi S, I just got on my laptop this moment (4:30pm)
to check my e-mail (haven't done any school-related
work..but I will have to sign on between 9pm and 11pm
this evening for a team assignment which is due at
11pm)

I have put my responses to your e-mail within your
original message below:




Dear CJ

I’m very sorry for your send off this morning. When
D called last night I was thrilled that you were
getting out of the house to do something fun on your
own for the first time this summer.

***Thanks, it was nice to get out with D (never did anything one-on-one with D before, unless you count the motorcycle ride). I underestimated the time it
would take for D and I to play golf, but there were
some added factors that prolonged our game (edited). It was nice having a "serious" chat with him and not the usual joking around superficial stuff he and I usually resort to when we are in social gatherings with other friends.



I hope you guys had a blast...hope D wasn't toooo
competetive!

***D was not competitive in the least. I suspect that he wasn't because he was in unfamiliar territory and a "rookie". D and I would really love to take you and H (D's W) out golfing before the season is over.

It was so much fun, and watching people riding around
on those electric golf carts got us thinking about
renting them if the four of us do go out. They are
$20 to rent. We laughed picturing you and H in
the driver's seat, and thought that might make the
usual boring game of golf become more exciting for the
both of you...and NO, I will not let you drive the
cart the whole time! I want my turn as
well...*smiles*



I’ll admit that I was also happy for the opportunity
to have the house to myself for a day. Something that
I have not had in a very long time. I envisioned
working, making some phone calls and doing a full work
out (kidney willing).

***I know how you feel about not having the house to yourself. For years, the situation was reversed, and any opportunity I could find to blast my own tunes
etc. was a nice change.



I was a bit surprised by how exhausted I was after
yesterday’s classes. I am also quite anxious about
the state of my kidney health. The low fever remains,
the pain is persisting today, although low grade. My
appointment is next week. I am NOT thinking the worst,
but there are some less than great possible outcomes
here.

***I am sure it was very exhausting, and we will have to find ways to make sure you are fed properly. My offer to make lunches for you still stands, and I will
make sure to cook suppers for you on the days you are
working. The calzone prep did catch me off guard, and
I misjudged on the prep time. I'm sorry, but I hope
you still enjoyed the effort I put in. As for your
kidney flare-ups, just try to keep a positive and
optimistic outlook, and no matter what happens, I will
be here to support you.



So all of this has been feeding my rather down mood of
late, not to mention this never-ending headache. FYI
I am in need of a neck rub 24 hours a day, so any time
you care to offer would be great.


***I would gladly offer you neck rubs, but likewise, please feel free to ask me anytime.



About your school work. Yes, you are spending more
time on that than either of us anticipated at first. I
am PROUD of how well you are doing, and very happy
that you are finding it so valuable.

***Thanks

YES, you are doing other stuff…cleaning, mowing,
cooking…and I DO appreciate it.\

***Thanks, but I admit I am not pulling my weight around here. Today I did the garbage, cleaned the bed sheets, cleaned up the fern leaves on the floor of the
computer room, scrubbed the stains from around the
front right grill on the stove, did a load of dishes
and put them away, and even fixed (I hope) the backup
of water from the washing machine drain. I hope I
don't come off sounding like J here, (annoying pal who likes to detail every task she does) but I thought
it was important for you to know what I did today in
lieu of my usual studies. I will find a balance
between both my school and chores. I'm heading out
shortly to water the gardens.



Your offer to make lunch for me after school was
thoughtful and touching. (Alas tomorrow I have a
chiropractor app't at 3:30).

I think perhaps we should sit down and discuss how we
can BOTH make the upcoming months productive,
peaceful, and fulfilling.

***Agreed.

Love S

P.S. And yes, I caught the sarcastic edge to my
comment about your e-mail about cutting back
significantly on your school work…I’m sorry.

***Thanks



I don’t WANT you to sacrifice your grades or learning
experience, I just feel that there must be a little
middle ground we can reach somehow.

***Thanks and I agree. I love you.



Okay I think I'll post this now, without comment as I am really afraid of losing the post and it's a long one!

Shiny
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/12/03 10:06 PM
Patience, Pam, Patience!

Was that last one diversion enough?

Interestingly, KAW although my e-mail did not include any specifics, the next day CJ did all that stuff he posted about and has further plans for stuff around here.

I also HAVE, in the past, pointed out the trend towards procrastination on his part or not following through on things. It's not just with me...he's made promises to others that he's renegged on too.

I like your idea of making it a "game plan" as that did work well with the pile up of reciepts.

Well, CJ's making his roasted red pepper sauce for dinner. I have a glass of blush on the go, so do forgive me for further posts ...I think I'll scoot over to Pam first.

Take care all!

Shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/12/03 10:12 PM
I am so glad you had a nice visit with your Nana. I worried about you and her and your visit. But you are great, and it is easy to tell she appreciated you very much.

I like CJ's email back to you, I can see the David I used to know in his answers. They must have several traits in common.

If I ever make it to Canada, I have always wanted to see it, I would really like to meet you and CJ.
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/12/03 10:31 PM
Absolutely Pam!!!

I've often thought how cool it would be to meet other DBer's in person! I'd LOVE to make one of the DB get togethers that go on periodically.

Okay, onto others!

Shiny
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/13/03 06:54 PM
Okay, so the rest of yesterday was...interesting.

I was still bbing, CJ starting dinner when my best old pal MJ calls to put the heat on about going out last night. I was feeling tired, achy, feverish and not at all sure I wanted to spend the night in a smoky bar.

I was on the phone with her (trying to hedge), when I asked CJ if he wanted to go out last night. He said yes, so I gave the phone to him. (put him on the spot, apologized for it).

She said she'd be coming right over (driven by her mom, she doesn't drive). Neither of us much relished the idea of her having a smoke and beer and watching us eat....so after a bit of a tiff CJ called her back and said we'd be in touch with her around 9.

Well as luck would have it, my pain meds and the vino helped me feel a bit more like going out so we were getting ready when she just showed up here!

I battled a bit with just staying home and CJ going out with MJ..but I have to say there was a bit of discomfort there. Not that anything would "go on", just something...maybe just him out at a bar without me for the first time since the spring?

Anyway I told him that what I was feeling was irrational.

So off we went to one after another karaoke bars. MJ and I did "Smoke on the Water" at two of them. CJ and she did a great job as always.

NOTE TO SELF: you can still turn heads at 40, and with 20 extra pounds!!!

Too bad they were the heads of drunken losers! Lets just say that the three bars we hit are not the top hot bars for the young folks. More like the end-stop for chronic alkies, divorcees, never-marrieds.

STILL, it was a bit of an ego boost, and CJ well, he couldn't help but notice. I asked one guy sitting next to us if we went to the same high school, but turns out the guy is 13 years younger than me!!! (He thought I might be 2 years older than him ).

Right away CJ's asking "What were you talking to that guy about"...as he pats what was MJ's seat right beside him.

Earlier we ran into a guy from our high school theatre arts class. Then in the last bar a fellow from grade school! He yakked my ear off about his job and his kid, while CJ looked a bit miffed. I tried to break away and finally did, but CJ still seemed put out.

Jealousy? Yes...I suppose if I wanted to just "pick someone up" last night made it very clear that would pose no problem....like I'd WANT to do that!!!


We drove (I drove...water only after dinner) MJ and some people she found to an after hours party and we came home. CJ crashed on the couch immediately and is nursing a bit of a head ache today.

If it weren't for my fever, kidney pain and ever increasing right arm pain (too much keyboarding??) I'd be just fine!

Shiny
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/17/03 12:30 AM
Not sure I like the new look around here....

Hi all, brief hello. My arm is bugging me from all the school related key-boarding so I'll likely just be catching up with reading threads.

Peace all...

Shiny
Posted By: Phoenix_In_Bloom Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/17/03 06:45 PM
Hiya Shiny,

Things sound great between you two.

I just got caught up on your thread and wanted to suggest Flylady to you.

www.flylady.com

She breaks down housecleaning into small manageable bites..and makes it fun.

Not sure if you've heard of her. But she's helped me lots. And she has directions for creating a 'control journal' which allows you to make things fit you. You can CJ could both use it and mark off what you've done. Different color markers for each of you.

I hope that helps!

Hugs.
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/18/03 11:46 AM
Hi Shiny,

Hope you are feeling better today.

{{{{{{{{{{Shiny}}}}}}}}}
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/19/03 04:00 PM
Hi Shiny,

Long time no hear from. Hope you are ok.

{{{{{{{{{Shiny}}}}}}}}}}}

And thank you for being there for me!
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/19/03 08:29 PM
You were my motivation to sign on this week, Pam!

No, folks, nothing dire...just overwork and not feeling so great.

Saw my kidney specialist on Wed. Turns out my stones (which he believes were there for at least 5 years) are in the meat of my lower left kidney and thus not amenable to external "blasting", nor to standard surgery. (the huge honder another surgeon removed last summer was not embedded this way).

Sooooo...if I bleed, get infections, if the pain becomes too much to handle, I get to have that whole 3rd of my kidney removed (serious surgery, significant side-effects and risks )

Oy! Have I not travelled the surgery road enough already? This will be my 6th major surgery. And I HATE the hospital.

Actually, our city is building a new one, so my goal is to hold off until it's finished!

Was just up at our "old hospital" to visit Nana last night (she's doing better ) and the initial smell of the place gave me a reactive shudder.

Had a few touch and go moments with CJ, but always resolved before much time passed. A superior approach to just brushing my misbehaviours under the carpet and expecting him to "take it".

I wonder how much bb catching up I have to do??

Shiny
Posted By: nikatnight Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/20/03 12:46 AM
Shinybear,

Sorry to hear about your kidneys. I will say a prayer. Remember God can and does work miracles so keep the faith!! nik
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/20/03 06:10 PM
Hi All,

Thought I'd illuminate one of those "touch and go" moments I alluded to in my last post.

We were heading out for lunch and before we left I said "I have to call in my prescriptions". But I forgot to do so. So as CJ was gassing up the car I pulled out the cell and made the call.

He hopped in just as I was saying goodbye to the pharamcist and asked who I was talking to. I SWEAR, without even thinking and in a very joking/light tone of voice I said..."Oh, that was just my boyfriend, we're meeting later".

One look at CJ's face and I knew that he did NOT find my quip funny. I told him immediately who I'd been speaking with. He said that this was a touchy subject for both of us and I agreed (although I THINK I threw in a bit about me NOT being the one who cheated). Kind of put a damper on lunch.

CJ's out getting some beers and checking the car's fluids for a trip out to D&H's tonight. And, ahem, he brought in some of those empty beer cases!!!

Later

Shiny
Posted By: sage Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/21/03 01:09 PM
Quote:

He hopped in just as I was saying goodbye to the pharamcist and asked who I was talking to. I SWEAR, without even thinking and in a very joking/light tone of voice I said..."Oh, that was just my boyfriend, we're meeting later".

One look at CJ's face and I knew that he did NOT find my quip funny. I told him immediately who I'd been speaking with. He said that this was a touchy subject for both of us and I agreed (although I THINK I threw in a bit about me NOT being the one who cheated). Kind of put a damper on lunch.





sometimes I wonder if h thinks I'm more likely to have an a now...kind of like a "revenge one" though maybe not that reactive? Like, it's all that guilt talking...don't I deserve to have her cheat on me? or, at least, why wouldn't she?

Sounds like you handled it great AND it got you talking!
Sage
Posted By: sage Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/21/03 01:15 PM
Duh...I think YOU guys know this but I probably should have tacked this on to my last post...

as much as I sometimes yearn to be found attractive by someone else (Lord knows my self-esteem took a severe beating thanks to h's a), and while there are still times when I'm mad or hurt enough to lose my mind....I think I'm even LESS likely to have an a. than before. the thought of putting someone else through the pain I have been thru seems unfathomable.

(tho' I DO sometimes selfishly wish there was a way for h to really and truly FEEL just how horrendously devastating this whole thing has been...and how it has lasted even to today).

Anyway...h can rest easy...his a made it less not more likely

Sage
Posted By: talitsa Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/21/03 01:35 PM
Quote:

sometimes I wonder if h thinks I'm more likely to have an a now...kind of like a "revenge one" though maybe not that reactive? Like, it's all that guilt talking...don't I deserve to have her cheat on me? or, at least, why wouldn't she?




Oh wow, yeah, the revenge affair! I've thought about it in my deepest darkest moments. There was a time (early pre-bomb) that I thought about that quite a bit. I had never had any desire, ever, to hurt him until that time. I knew that it wouldn't have the desired effect though. The thoughts were about hurting back and my devistated pride.

Interesting subject, though. Do either of you ever have the feeling, like I do, that it would be nice if these guys showed even a little jealousy or possessiveness once in a while?
Posted By: optimist Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/21/03 02:05 PM
Quote:

Interesting subject, though. Do either of you ever have the feeling, like I do, that it would be nice if these guys showed even a little jealousy or possessiveness once in a while?



Personally, I think every woman likes his man to show a little fear of losing her, and some possessiveness. But only a little: it would get quite uncomfortable if he got to be too much of a bear.

I did get a huge thrill this July 4th, when my H showed up at the party and saw me chatting with the guys. And there were a couple of really good looking ones that were quite interested in me... My then-estranged H stood guard by me the rest of the evening, with our daughter for reinforcements.

We are only human after all...

As to the revenge affair: it is a tempting thought but I think it would be stooping to his level. And that robs me of the high moral ground (which is good to have even when you do not use it). Ooops, my machiavelic side is showing...
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/21/03 09:01 PM
Cool! an exchange of thoughts on my sorry thread!!

Yes all, I too entertained the idea of the revenge A. This was VERY early on....like the night of bomb#1...actually, all I envisioned then was letting some long time male friends have a "glimpse" of me I'd long denied them. (I think my very modesty just feeds their desire! ).

Of course, that was when I thought CJ had just "kissed" an OW.

When I found out about the two EA/PAs I was FLOORED...too hurt to really think of A's.

I have to agree with Sage on this one: I think I am LESS likely to go that route than before (although I never seriously entertained that option EVER), seeing what it does to everyone involved.

So YES, I was a bit taken aback at how upset CJ seemed about the "boyfriend" quip. It made me realize that HE is not as sure of me as he'd like to be...perhaps it IS the element of: Well if "I" could be led astray...so could YOU!

And Optimist, I agree that I would NOT want to stoop to that level...there is something about having the higher moral ground that is satisfying, isnt' there?

And yes, it actually IS nice to have CJ show some posessiveness...SOME...because for a time about 8 years ago he went overboard with that...freaking on ME for attentions male pals were directing at me that I did NOT encourage! (How could I control someone saying I have a nice butt when I'm bending over putting on shoes???? )

Last night for example, one of our notoriously flirty, womanizing pals (yes, he's married ) was taking photos of us all with his digital camera. I was busy talking, not noticing that he was targeting ME. CJ noticed and called him on it!!! Put his arm around me in every photo J tried to take. ...That was okay.

Slept in late again today (what else is new?), but managed to lure CJ back into bed too...we joked around some (nice to just TOUCH him!) and then headed out for an obscenely huge "Blupper".

Shiny
Posted By: sage Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/22/03 12:41 PM
Quote:

Interesting subject, though. Do either of you ever have the feeling, like I do, that it would be nice if these guys showed even a little jealousy or possessiveness once in a while?




I've seen flashes of it (very, very rarely) in my h but I think I've been so busy being jealous and possessive that there's been no need/room for him to be.

But, yah, I wouldn't mind hearing the "opposite" of the ILYBINILWY speech -- a la, some indication that he would be afraid of losing me.

Sage
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/22/03 11:55 PM
Hi Shiny,

You are going to have to stop this not posting on your thread I worry! You know that anxiety thing.

Hope your kidneys get to feeling better soon!

Glad you were able to lure CJ back to bed.

David's last visit over leaves me wishing he would come again soon in the same mood!!!

Take care and hope you have a great day tomorrow!
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/23/03 03:03 AM
Honey! You of all folks should know I'm okay...I always post on your thread!!!

Just tired today, pain is a bit more marked. I'm going to try to get in to see my regular doc again tomorrow.

Things are fine with CJ and I. He's going to play golf with D again tomorrow...initially it was to be a foursome, but we're taking my folks and aunt out for dinner tomorrow and with my kidney sore, I don't think a round of golf is the best thing to do! (plus it would mean getting up before 9 on my "work at home" day...and, well, you know me! ).

Shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/23/03 09:58 AM
Hi Shiny,

I know you always post on my thread but because you are trying to help me doesn't mean you are doing alright!!! See follow my path?

So sorry you are hurting. I hope your regular doc can give you something to help.

Golf and then dinner probably would not be your best bet. Especially getting up before 9 when you don't have too!!!!

Take care and thank you!
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/24/03 02:29 AM
Hi Pam!

Just posted to you and then found your post and remembered something I wanted to post to you...follow me???

The muscle relaxers you have a Rx for may just help (things heal better if you're not tense all the time). Just be sure they don't interact with any other meds you're on. (I have the Rx pill book I check, but a pharmacist would know).

Had a nice dinner out with my Folks and Aunt. Anyone catch Oprah today? About cheating H's ...touched a nerve, but didn't affect me beyond the borders of the show. That's good right?

Shiny
Posted By: Phoenix_In_Bloom Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/24/03 11:28 AM
Hiya Shiny,

I think it's great that your twinge didn't extend beyond the show.

Wonderful for you!

Hugs.
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/24/03 03:14 PM
Hi Shiny,

The same doctor that put me on the Zoloft gave me the Rx for the muscle relaxers so I would think they should be all right together.

So glad you enjoyed your dinner out. Hope you are feeling a bit better today. Is today when you went to the doctor?

I'm afraid I might be at work and supposed to be working when Oprah is on! I think it is great that you didn't let the show affect you beyond it's borders. So much better than letting it cloud any interactions with CJ!
Posted By: love_endures4ever Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/24/03 03:46 PM
Speaking of Zoloft, I saw an ad in a magazine last night that said Zoloft can be used for PMDD--a premenstraul disorder and that you can just take it for the two weeks before your period. Which seems odd, I thought you had to take it for at least six weeks for it be effective..hmmmm

Cathy
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/24/03 03:57 PM
I wonder if you just take it like that if it lessens the uhh... side effects!
Posted By: love_endures4ever Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/24/03 04:01 PM
Quote:

I wonder if you just take it like that if it lessens the uhh... side effects!




I don't know, but really those are the weeks that I need the most help with moods, etc. And also the times when I react the most to everything. If I only had to take something during those two weeks and it had been available a year ago maybe I could have avoided saying some of the things to my H that caused him to become unhappy...but who knows.

Cathy
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/24/03 04:13 PM
That is me exactly! David says he knows a week or so in advance because of my emotions and reactions!

Maybe when Shiny gets here she will know some of the answers!
Posted By: talitsa Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/24/03 06:02 PM
I know for sure that some of the SSRI anti-D's (prozac, paxil, Zoloft, celexa, lexipro, etc) are very helpful with PMS. Some more than others, but all to some degree, I think.
Posted By: optimist Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/24/03 06:20 PM
Well said, Tal. For more info see your medical professional or this web page
Posted By: talitsa Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/24/03 11:26 PM
When prozac first came out, and I started using it during the winter months, I made a connection right away that the PMS was almost non-existant.

Now, I take Celexa and Welbutrin through the fall & winter, but that doesn't seem to diminish the PMS symptoms like prozac did. Help a lot with seasonal depression though, so not complaining.
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/25/03 02:51 AM
Okay, where's everyone finding these hot photos of themselves!! Even you, Tiger!

My first thought on seeing your photo, Tal? Is her H NUTS!!!!!

I have heard of SSRI's being used for PMDD, I've never heard of them being administered in a two weeks on two weeks off fashion, however.

Well today was tiring. Lecturing on technical stuff (neurons and brain function, clinical assessment) with sore feet and a sore throat.

Got in to see "a" doctor today...my guy is taking over some kind of residency program and hence his insane schedule of late. Got a mandatory med renewed, that's it.

Kidney is still barking, low fever persists, but right now the worst is the sore throat. I make my living with my voice...so it's hot water and lemon, salt gargles, and as little talking as possible.

CJ did several nice things today (picked up breakfast, drove me to work, bought groceries) but by the time I got home, I was so tired and sore and YUCK that I had a few "moments".

First I made an issue out of some frozen ground beef not having time to thaw for chili...(cranky when there's not time for lunch ).

Then when I got home from the doctor and some house supply shopping the smell of...something: stale house, kitty litter...hits me. I ask CJ if he cleaned out the litter boxes (it was garbage day today). He did. I proceed to open the front door to get some air in (quite chilly out here now), then go into the back room to sit.

This is, of course, the room with the lingering odiferous memories of cat "mistakes" long since past...and their scratching post (made of lovely carpet that they tear out in hunks ). The two loungers in there are also cat beds during the day.

I guess it all just hit me. CJ had vacuumed last week, but our vacuum (which hasn't been working properly in over a year) has started giving out about 75% of the way through. So this back room was the victim last week.

That night I mentioned to CJ that when he does finish, please be sure to suck up the "cat" growing in the corners of the gold chair (I mean a whack of fur! ).

It just didn't get done, and I couldn't bear the thought of sitting in there. So I grabbed the vacuum and started, only when I tried to clean the chair I noticed that there was NO suction at all. VERY FRUSTRATING!!!

I asked CJ if he'd noticed it...on and on. He did call me into the kitchen to ask what was wrong, and I told him that I felt ill (full details) and frustrated. He said it was coming out on him, and I suppose it was.

There was an undercurrent of "Why didn't YOU finish this?"...but when I look at all the other stuff he's doing, it doesn't seem fair. Just hard to keep the PMA up when you're feeling so crappy!!!

I'm also more than a bit worrieed that I may need kidney surgery sooner rather than later. Thing is, I'm the sole income now and I have NO benefits whatsoever. As a "Contract Lecturer" they can get away with this.

It means if I miss more than two weeks, my job for the year is history.

Oh well, One day at a time.

Shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/25/03 08:53 AM
Hi Shiny,

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Shiny}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Ok, that all sucks big time. Now time to list the positives! Sage keeps telling me to do that, in my case I think fear is keeping me from it. Like if I think too positive and this all goes South I will be even more devastated BUT at least sometimes I am getting better at thinking of the positives!


You know our voice in our head. It needs to think of the positives rather than dwell on the negatives. I know when I hurt nothing else seems right either. I am not doing a good job here of saying what I am trying to say, hopefully you read me well enough to follow me. I don't mean to sound trite or dismissive of what is going on for you, I am amazed at all you have dealt with and continue to deal with health wise and keep your PMA upbeat. I'm just throwing this out trying to help pick you up a little. By now you have probably had a good glass of vino and feel tons better! Hey our wine instructor told me one time when getting a cold that glass of wine would help, I think it did or maybe I just couldn't tell it didn't!

BTW Saturday is Champagne day on my thread, drop by for a glass! Five years - still married!

I hope you feel better today and it is a great day for you!!!
Posted By: talitsa Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/25/03 03:27 PM
Um...it is one of the few good pictures I have of myself as I'm not very photogenic (sp?), although a little cheesecakey and 3 years old (this last year has given me more than a few wrinkles!)

Is Tal's H NUTS???? Shiney, I think that has been well established, i.e Butt-Ugly Woman, enit, LOL!!!!

Posted By: birdonawire Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/25/03 03:36 PM
SB,

Sorry to hear the medical problems are making life difficult. Make sure that CJ is aware - in a loving, not complaining way. Apologize for crankiness and thank him for doing what he has. Make him feel appreciated.

It seems sometimes that God keeps placing things in front of us. You can look at them as obstacles - and the turmoil that comes with them. Or you can see them as challenges that the Lord has given us - to use the talents that he has given us for this journey through life.

You will overcome these Shiny. You have been through rougher waters than these.

My prayers go out to you today.

Greg - Patient, vigilant, hopeful
Posted By: KAW Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/25/03 04:17 PM
Shiny,
Sorry to hear about the current strife. Please be careful not to let having to endure the symptoms of your health conditions cause you to slip into a depressed state. This is a common trigger for CAW's blues (some of that going on this week).

Have you expressed to CJ that you are gettin' more anxious about a pending upcoming surgery? Making him aware of this will help understand more the source of why it comes across as coming out on him is because in a way its a cry for help ... or you may need to find another approach.

I know how needing a new vac gets put off ... always something else is more important to purchase, but think of the value of having the place look some much cleaner after making the effort to clean ... taking less time to get those results ... less frustration felt then ... and the ability to praise his efforts rather than saying, I know you just cleaned but it really doesn't look it. It would be more than a new vac ... Its an all around PMA booster!! Only last year did I learn what a difference a new vac could make !! ... Oh! ... and if you get one ... go bagless, too!

Oh and talitsa! From a male's POV, I have to agree with Shiny!

'til later,
KAW
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/25/03 05:03 PM
Awwww, thanks everyone!!!

Yes a new vacuum is on the list to buy this weekend. Our "old" one is only 4 years old and it's an upright bagless Phantom Fury...worked GREAT for the first couple of years. My Mom suggested we try bringing it back to Walmart!!!

I did apologize to CJ last night, but it might have seemed a little weak to him, not sure. He was almost asleep at the time and didn't really respond.

I haven't shared with him explicitly, my concerns about losing my job as I didn't want him to feel pressured about it. (Like he'd have to find a job asap). We do have some savings that could carry us through. Plus when I DO share such things, he berates me for focussing on the negative.

Well I feel a bit better today, good night's sleep (can anyone else pop a cough candy at night and still have remnants of it left in the morning???). The kidney has quieted some, and the sore throat is a bit more bearable with the rest it's getting (hot chicken soup helped too! ).

So yes PMA is back some today, as I knew it would be. Heck tomorrow IS Friday, right???

Shiny
Posted By: farfromhome Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/25/03 06:43 PM
Gday Shiny

Thanks for visiting me as I came into the new neighbourhood, its great to see you made it here as well while I was away from the board.

I hope all works out well in regards to your health. Everything else seems to be realy positive.

Look after yourself

Andrew
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/25/03 07:15 PM
Hey Shiny,

Just had a thought. Isn't that amazing!

G, OW's XH is in Canada all the time a couple of different towns. I have forgotten where it is he tells me he goes now, he really likes it up there, BUT if he goes close to you I COULD send your bottle of special Champagne up with him!!!!

I wouldn't offer just anyone a bottle as we can't just run to the store and pick it up but since I KNOW you would appreciate it.

I have also forgotten where it is in Canada that you are located.

Makes it hard to get the two of you together!
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/25/03 09:31 PM
Hi Pam,

I'm up in North Western Ontario...close to the Manitoba border. But DO remember that in this part of the world "close" means about a 6 hour drive!!!

I sincerely doubt a minimum two day detour would make your H happy!!!

But thanks SO much for the thought!!!

Getting hungry...might my all purpose blush go with the chili???

Shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/25/03 09:38 PM
I'm thinking Merlot or Shiraz!

Actually it is OW's ex H who goes to Canada but I don't remember which towns! Two different ones I remember, will have to ask next time I talk to him.
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/25/03 09:41 PM
I agree with your wine suggestions, madam somalier!

Just think a swish or two of blush is all I have on hand!

Really should go make dinner now....

Shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/25/03 09:44 PM
NOTHING in the basement??????????????

You need to add some wine to go with your beer crates in your basement!!! Sorry, no visit from David and I am being bad tonight! Was keyed up and winding down.

Sorry, I have a closet full, I would send you a nice bottle if I could!



Blush is better than no wine at all!!!
Posted By: optimist Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 12:13 PM
Quote:

Blush is better than no wine at all!!!





I'm not that sure... Get a Heineken! Works in a pinch.
Posted By: Jeannine Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 12:58 PM
Now you're onto something that is near and dear to my heart.

Yea....Wine....

It appears that the topic fermented over on Pam's (PSLUKE) thread and then poured it's way over here.

What a pleasant distraction...eh?

Some of the best wine I've ever tasted was while I was in Argentina. $2 to $3 bottles of the finest.
I've been a bit fussy ever since.

Also, I found that in general, the "white" wines I've tasted while in France, were significantly more pleasant to my palate than many I've tried here in the USA.

I would like to find a moderately priced Cabernet Sauvignon that has some character to it. Care to advice?
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 03:15 PM
Hi Shiny,

I hope your blush sort of went with your chili last night.

I put the Champagne in the fridge to chill this morning. I don't have almost a full case. Only 3 or 4 more bottles.

Going to have to try checking on getting another case, this guy does an awesome Riesieling as well! I mean won some major awards with it. Drinks by the fire great!!!

Mentioned to David the other day I have a Riesieling chilling and thought since the evenings are cooling off we needed a fire in the picnic shelter and the Riesieling. He said sounds good!

Hope your cold is still doing better and the kidney is being quiet!

Shame you can't debark it like people do dogs all the time and NO I have not debarked any of my shelties! Although that is a breed that very often has that done to them.

So do I pop the cork tomorrow or see how quietly I can take it off??
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 03:23 PM
Ok, Jeannine,

I'll bite if you wander over to my fermenting thread, list the characteristics you are looking for be glad to try to help out.

Or ask David for you, Cab is his absolute favorite wine!

Me, I prefer white. Love some of the French ones, but also like a lot of domestic and the price better!!!
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 05:29 PM
Hello Ladies! (and any fellas checkin' in! )

The blush went reasonably well!

This one is a 2, that's about as sweet as I go with wine. Although Cabs are not my favourite reds...a little too heavy for me.

I like Merlots, Zinfendels, even blends (although true wine lovers shudder at those). Medium reds with some fruity overnotes are nice for me!

Cold is still on the fence (could go away, could dig in), kidneys are just growling a bit today.

Classes went well. I DID have to give my largest class the "if you persist in chattering you will be asked to leave" talk. And as luck would have it, my boss sat in on my class today (he's writing me a letter for the teaching award).

Half way in we had a "visit" from Bobby Cortola...something of a Canadian Sinatra wannabe from the 1960's. He had an entourage with him!! Lights, cameras action! I may even be on the evening news.

If so MUST remember WHY we look 10 pounds heavier on film: (There IS a legit reason for this!!! )

You see, when we look at ourselves in a mirror, or at others, the slight separation of our two eyes allows us to see somewhat AROUND their three dimensional figure, giving us a wider view of the BACKGROUND behind them.

The camera shoots from a single position causing us to cast a larger "shadow" over the background...our brain then interprets the figure as wider!!!

Positives for today:

1) It's Friday!!!!
2) CJ cleaned the bathroom (which I hate doing! )
3) I don't think I screwed anything up during the lecture!

Shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 06:42 PM
Please bring CJ with you tomorrow to the celebration!

I also HATE cleaning the bathrooms and David usually did that while I did other cleaning.
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 07:06 PM
Anyone else catch Dr. Phil today?

It was a good one! All about confidence and the power of self talk.

I thought of you, Sage, with your internal dialogue of "I'm not interesting enough"...an utter lie you keep telling yourself!!!...of course YOU know what to do about it...challenge that thought!

The most amazing segment was with a woman who is a classically trained pianist. She had a bad recital at age 8 (forgot her place, had to restart twice) and ever since then will not play for others.

I mean not even her immediate family! (She looked to be in her 30's to me).

Dr.Phil had her work through her "worst case scenario"...screwing up in front of an audience, panic attack, passing out (clunk! slip. whoosh onto the floor). Waking to find pity or even ridicule from the audience.

Then what? Everyone goes home, it all blows over!

I would have asked her...what is the ACTUAL likelihood that this worst case would come to pass? How is this thinking working FOR her?

Dr. Phil told her (as a PERSONAL opinion) that she didn't have the right to withhold her talent, that it was, in effect selfish to do so out of fear of what others MIGHT think!

Don't you know he dragged out a grand piano and she played a number right then and there! She even made a couple of mistakes (which I think is a good thing) but pressed through to a standing ovation from the audience!!!

People, NEVER underestimate the power of what you say to yourself, and never forget that YOU have the power to change it for the better.

Shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 09:10 PM
OK, you didn't say what red wine you are having, rubbed the wonderful pizza and salad in and didn't name the wine!
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 09:14 PM
He he....we're ALMOST talking, Pam!!!

Can't rub the wine in, since CJ hasn't BOUGHT it yet!!! Of course I would have detailed that too!

Shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 09:15 PM
You will of course let me know later?
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 09:23 PM
If I can still type!

Shiny
Posted By: optimist Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 09:23 PM
Well, I am finishing the 1995 Marques de Riscal Reserva that we opened the other day...
Posted By: optimist Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 09:28 PM
... and a totally hilarious Wendy Holden novel (they all have the same plot, but the fun is in her expressions, like P.G. Wodehouse's)

Brief pause to tickle my daughter, at her request, on an emergency basis....
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 09:29 PM
That sounds realllly good!!! My vino is still in transport and Pam, well, poor pam.....wait a minute!!! You say you have vino to spare in your cellar...No more vino pity for you!

Care to share tasting notes Opt???

Shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 09:35 PM
I think Optimist evening sounds better than mine! She at least didn't rub dinner in but her wine sounds pretty awesome!

But, I have the Champagne in the fridge.
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 09:38 PM
You DO realize that unless CJ gets back to feed me, this banter will continue and if we don't inject something "serious" into the mix the "overseers" (JJ? You out there?? ) may deem my thread to be "for fun only"

shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 09:44 PM
Or mine or both of us!!!!

Sorry you want dinner and I am lonely.

I want to give you my email address in case you ever decide you would like to write me.

Sage and I wrote while the BB was down.

PSLuke@aol.com

That way sometime if you want we can be silly and no one will know but us!!
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 09:46 PM
Sounds good!

Next time I have my e-mail open...maybe I have time now...

Shiny
Posted By: optimist Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 09:48 PM
I am not very good at the science of it (that is what I have a father for: you should see his cellar!) but in Europe it is not the grapes but the region of origin that matters. Same grapes in different soils give a different character to wine. That is what they called origin denomination.

I am mostly into reds, though I found the other day a fun white with no pretensions called René Barbier in World Market. My partner is the one that does the wine thing in a scientific manner. I am only a dilettante

When H and I had just separated, one of my sisters came over to spend a week with me. The last weekend I had had a terrible row with H (I gave him a heartfelt letter of how everything he was doing was affecting our R and he gave it back to me without finishing it saying:'I'm tired of being insulted'!!!!). Anyway, I was furious and went totally absolutely dark: did not answer pages, did not answer the cell phone and went to stay in a hotel with my sister and my daughter. That Saturday we had dinner with friends and then my sister and I hit the town! It was such fun... That is when I discovered a really cool place in Fort Worth called Wine Scapes. They have 'flights' of wine: sampling of 4 different wines with a common denominator (e.g. California wines, Australian wines...). I loved it. There were also cheeses and patés to accompany the wine. It was real fun And we were in a perfect mood both of us!!! I had not had that much fun in a long. long time!

The following day, my H broke up with OW and left her house storming... as I learned later from her.
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 09:59 PM
Hi Optimist,

David is the one here that is really into it, I just sample what they give us and decide if I like it or not! BUT David isn't here and I HAVE ALL OF THE WINE!!!!!!!

Terroir, I have no idea how to spell that but Shiny will probably correct me. Our wine instructor says even just across the road the wines can taste totally different. Hence a Grand Cru and an everday drinking wine practically growing side by side!

I have told David we are discussing wines and I am collecting a list for him to pick up so that we can try them.

Yeah, they don't like to hear what they are doing wrong. It is insulting them. No matter what they are doing to us!

OK, I have friends in TX if I ever get there to visit I want to check this place out!!!
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 10:01 PM
Well THERE'S some positive connections with the vine!

One of my colleagues arranges his Sabbaticals around wine growing regions of the world: so far France, Spain, Portugal, Italy and Australial mate!

Every fall he and his W host a Wine tasting event where for a minimal fee ($10 a head) faculty and students alike can go to their place and sample from a selection he himself has made.

He types up the names, tasting notes, prices, all done in order (whites first, reds last) with plain bread chunks for cleansing the palate. HE's got a cellar to envy!!!

It's always a LOT of fun...

Interestingly, wow, just remembered this. When I was a grad student, this same Prof was my mentor and I was his Teaching Assistant. About the time I relapsed with my Ulcerative Colitis, a former fellow student of mine, M, confessed to me that she was having an A with this prof of ours.

Now, she was finished the program and off doing her PhD, but it was a fairly long A. I felt uncomfortable with her confiding in me as I already knew and liked his W. This "friend" of mine, it turns out, was just using me to have SOMEONE to tell. I'm not sure to this day that my mentor has any idea that I "Know".

Although he was ready to cast all aside for this fling (she was married too), SHE broke it off, stayed with her H and had three kids.

My mentor and his W seem the same as always...I wonder how he feels about it all and if she ever found out.

Okay, WHERE is my pizza????

Shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 10:12 PM
Hey Shiny that sounds like a lot of fun!

Last year we had wine parties in our picnic shelter. Actually it was at one of those that OW, overdid and spent the rest of the evening upchucking in the flower bed.

Then the night in our bed with David there with her!!!!!!!!!!!!


Have you seen Optimist's note to David???????? I LOVE IT!
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 10:17 PM
I'll be back later to see the tasting notes!!!

Chiliean wines aren't one of my favorites so be interesting to see what you think.
Posted By: Jeannine Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/26/03 11:58 PM
Okay Opt...I'm taking notes here.

René Barbier in World Market....umhah!

Pam dear,
You don't care for Chilean wine? Did I hear you right??
Didn't some of the great vines in France originate in Chile?

Wait a minute...
Come to think of it, I haven't found any "raving" Chilean wine here in this country.
At least not in a price range that I can justify.

Hey, do I sound snobbish enough?

Actually, I'm humbled by everybody elses knowledge.
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/27/03 12:06 AM
Hi Jeannine,

Note on my thread from David for you.

The vines may have came from Chile but the terrior isn't the SAME! I need to look up how to spell that because Shiny hasn't came back and corrected me yet!
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/27/03 09:20 AM
THERE ARE NO TASTING NOTES!!!!!!!!!!

I know by the time you finished the bottle you weren't able to post the notes!
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/27/03 08:12 PM
It just wasn't all that remarkable, and what flavours were there were pretty much overpowered by the tres garlicy Caesar!

Hi All...great nephew's birthday was sweet. Cold has moved from a sore throat to the plugged/drippy nose/sneezing portion of the event. Thank you CJ for picking up the Puffs!

Pal MJ just called to see if we want to karaoke tonight, but with this cold, a noon brunch with CJ's Mom (her birthday) Sis and BIL and the finishing touches to put on my teaching dossier tomorrow...plus class preps...

I think I'm talking myself out of it pretty nicely! But how will I feel if CJ wants to go? Hmmmmm.

Shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/27/03 08:20 PM
Hmmm...pretty much what I would say about all the Chilian wines I have tried. Not that I have tried that many of them!

I hope the silly cold goes on away soon!!!!!!!

Being sick is just no fun.
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/27/03 09:46 PM
More Champagne? I also have some Montgomery Cheddar, Smoked Gouda and Smoked Cheddar left!

David is the Montgomery Cheddar fan.

Apparently G doesn't care for it much more than I do as we neither one ate any of what I cut up!!!
Posted By: optimist Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/28/03 12:35 PM
Please, do not take about wine (or food). My stomach is complaining! And the wine in the fund raiser was disgusting. We ended up drinking water AT A SOCIAL FUNCTION. Anyone thinks we could sue?

Speaking of lousy Chilean wines, if you have a bottle of 2002 Santa Rita 120, give it to your worst enemy (or use it for self defense). Do NOT, I repeat do NOT open it. It needs another 50 years to mature (if it ever does, which is debatable).

I am going for more Maalox...
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/28/03 01:21 PM
Hi Opt,

Decided I had to express sympathy for having to go to a fund raiser and then to have TO DRINK WATER!!!!!!!!!

I think it should definitely be a suable, (don't believe that is a word), offense!!!

I will put the 2002 Santa Rita 120 on my list of DO NOT BUY!!!!!!!

Hope your stomach feels better soon.
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/28/03 07:10 PM
Hi All!

Just did a little journalling and thought I would post it.


Been thinking some about the weight gain…something is up here, and it’s not just poundage. I’m feeling “hungry” more often, eating larger portions, eating at night.

All things I’ve done in the past to mask what’s going on in and around me. The weight gain started after bomb#3 back in March. So, why?

At first I think I just relaxed some, CJ was NOT leaving, it was all out in the open…

At the same time, I had various things that worked against my regular work-outs, among them the fact that I’m rarely alone in the house, foot problems, school etc.

I’m increasingly certain that I am eating to mask my sexual tensions. There is no improvement on that front, if anything we’ve drifted further from those goals. And the bigger I get, the less sexy I feel.

I’m starting to hear internal dialogue saying “fat cow… you let yourself go…not sexy…fat face…”. And then in the next second, I’m looking for something to eat!

So, what am I doing? What am I covering for?

Boredom…frustrations with CJ…uncertainty.

What am I uncertain of? That our M is any better off than before.

Perhaps CJ feels better in our M, many of his issues with me have been addressed and are much, much better.

But what about my needs? It seems that CJ’s trying to “do stuff” around the house to satisfy me, but what about strengthening our R? Romance? Affection? Letters? Notes? Flowers? Compliments?

He KNOWS these are my LL’s, but so far he’s shown little inclination to fill up these tanks. And so I fill my face with food.

Not an excuse, but a half-decent explanation.

So what can I do differently?

For me, KNOWING why I’m seeking out a bowl or rice at 3 a.m. doesn’t necessarily stop me from eating it!

I guess I’ll have to bite the bullet an tell CJ some of this???

I suppose I’m a bit afraid to…what if he still just doesn’t love me “that way”? What if he never can? THAT’S the real issue….similar to LL’s dilemma….would “this” be enough for me for the rest of my life?

Would it be enough for CJ? Or might he travel the same path he’s travelled before?

Crud!

Shiny


P.S. my PMA isn't as down as this post makes it sound!
Posted By: Trying24now Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/28/03 07:34 PM
Okay Shiny pass the ho hos and chips....I think I'm about to join you at the late night refrigerator rendevous.

My H has "announced" that he wants to come home. So I expect that will be soon if not immediately. I'm still so unsure of what I want that I'm apprehensive about his actual return.

Stick by me Shiny, I think I'm going to need your 'insight' to get through this attempt at cohabitation...I'm not so sure I can do it.
T2
Posted By: optimist Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/28/03 07:51 PM
OK, you are down but you are not down, hopefully hopeless. The crystal ball broken, you cannot read the future. Welcome to the club, Shine.

BTW, you do not want to hear what Dr. Phil says about weight gain.

Since this is poetry day, I found one for you too. I do not want you to think it is only Pam, that gets the erudition. Let's see if Pablo Neruda got it:

Quote:

No te quiero sino porque te quiero
y de quererte a no quererte llego
y de esperarte cuando no te espero
pasa mí corazón del frío al fuego.

Te quiero sólo porque a tí te quiero,
te odio sin fín, y odiándote te ruego,
y la medida de mí amor viajero
es no verte y amarte como un ciego.

Tal vez consumirá la luz de enero,
su rayo cruel, mí corazón entero,
robándome la llave de sosiego.

En esta historia sólo yo me muero
y moriré de amor porque te quiero,
porque te quiero, amor, a sangre y fuego.





I do not love you but because I love you
and loving you to not loving you I arrive
and waiting for you when I do not await you
my heart passes from cold to fire.

I love you only because I love you,
I endlessly hate you, and hating you I beg of you,
and the measure of my fluctuating love
is not to see you and loving you blindly.

Perhaps the light of January will consume,
with its cruel ray, my whole heart,
stealing from me the key of inner peace.

In this story only I will die
and I will die of love because I love you
because I love you, love, with blood and with fire.

100 Love Sonnets
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/28/03 08:00 PM
Hi Opt!

Thanks for the poem. Sums us some of our confusions here, no?

And YES I'm well aware of Dr. Phil's notions on weight gain/loss. He has some valid points, too.

Why do you think I was eating rice at 3.a.m. instead of chocolate or donuts??? NONE of that in the house!

I know too that it's a decision, a choice, a lifestyle. I know that all too well. I've ridden the weight rollercoaster since childhood.

I enjoyed 6 1/2 years of relatively stable low (for me) weight, until this spring.

I did it by being sensible about portions, no major self denial, but a lot more regular exercise. I know that's what it will take to turn this around.

I know I can do it...just wondering why I'm not!!!

Shiny

P.S. I think Dr. Phil is a little rough on those of us with genetic propensities towards chubbiness...I KNOW it's about choices, but it's frustrating to know others can make the same choices we do and stay thin!!!
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/28/03 08:52 PM
Does the Celaxa not work somewhat as an appetite suppressant?

The Zoloft definitely does!

Although when the cooler weather gets here I always want to eat more and heavier foods. Guess I must think I am going hibernate!!!!!! And I don't even live in Canada!
Posted By: nikatnight Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/28/03 11:17 PM
Shiny,

"..He KNOWS these are my LL’s, but so far he’s shown little inclination to fill up these tanks. And so I fill my face with food.."

I am such an emotional eater also. I know exactly what I need to do to lose weight, I even exercise regularly but I am addicted to food. That quick fix of chocolate. The fact that I am doing something I know I shouldn't be.

I even taped on my fridge.."Is what I am about to do going to bring me closer to my goal or farther away." This definatley applies to food also.

Watch Dr. Phil, monday and tuesday this week. I am taping the shows. I also just got his new book from the library. I think he is right on target re: Healing Feelings. If we conquer our emotional eating problem our weight won't be an issue.

The heavier you feel, the less sexy you feel and your H probably picks up that vibe from you.

I think talking or writing to him re: this HUGE need not being met, etc.... Is very important. Don't let this issue fester.

nik
Posted By: optimist Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/29/03 12:34 AM
One trick,Shiny. When you feel like eating, come to my garden and help me weed. It is addictive, you lose calories and do not eat. And we can finish the 1999 Condesa de Leganza Crianza that I opened today for the pool party!
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/29/03 12:40 AM
I want some too! If I help weed, do I get a glass?
Posted By: sage Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/29/03 12:47 PM
Shiny --

Really great insights into what's going on with you re. food, etc. I think you've laid out the issues so well...should give you a springboard for tackling them, no?

Quote:

Boredom;frustrations with CJ;uncertainty.

What am I uncertain of? That our M is any better off than before.

Perhaps CJ feels better in our M, many of his issues with me have been addressed and are much, much better.

But what about my needs? It seems that CJ's trying to do stuff around the house to satisfy me, but what about strengthening our R? Romance? Affection? Letters? Notes? Flowers? Compliments?






So....one thing that's impressed me about you and CJ is your ability to "talk" about stuff ... have you considered addressing this stuff (in an email? face2face?) with him? You mentioned that he knows this stuff is your LL but he doesn't seem inclined to fill up the old love tank...could you ask for one or two very specific things that he could do for you to get the ball rolling? Don't forget to praise the stuff he IS doing (cleaning the bathroom! woohoo!!!) and ask clearly for what you need.

Sage

Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/29/03 10:44 PM
Hi Shiny,

As always Sage has a great point. You and CJ do seem to have very good communication now.

I would think if you phrase it right and approach him right you ought to be able to get some resolution here.

CJ makes me think, just based on your posts of some of David's character traits. He can be very caring and very concerned. He can also be VERY focused. Right now I have the feeling that he is very focused on his school work and not on what really needs to be addressed in the R.

You know can't expect him to do any "bloody mind reading"!

I really think there is no doubt of CJ's love for you, not from the emails and notes that you have gotten from him and the work he HAS done on the R.

I have not followed LL's thread but I do think CJ has demonstrated a willingness to change and work with you when you have been specific about what you need from him.

What is it that Poepad said on Tal's thread, something like us guys just don't get it! I can't remember the quote exactly.

I am also guessing that some of the feelings of insecurity and he doesn't love me "that way" feelings are coming from your physical pain right now and your unhappiness with your current weight and eating tendencies. PLUS not uhmm..enough physical activity for you to feel sexy even with a bit of weight gain!

You know sometimes I think I have good thoughts in my head but I don't seem to be able to write them out.

Hope you got something out of this post!

If not here is at least a hug and hope you feel better!

{{{{{Shiny}}}}}
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/30/03 03:08 AM
Thanks Sage and Pam!

Busy busy day...first chance to check in and it's midnight!

Now what do you make of this?

I posted that yesterday, right? Well later in the evening, CJ came up and rubbed my shoulders, gave me a hug, went out to find some night time sinus medication for me.

Alas being a Sunday night, the pharmacy at the Safeway was closed...but he came home with a bouquet of flowers!

He commisserateed with my cold based misery, tried to bring our vacuum back to Walmart today (no receipt...damn!).

At work I finally got my computer to access my e-mail account and he'd sent me an e-mail wishing that I felt better, saying he would have ravaged me this morning, but I looked too sick....

CJ...CJ are you reading my posts??? Not that I mind, of course!

Shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/30/03 08:41 AM
Hmmm...this is the second time I know of that you have posted about something in your R and it has changed in a way you wanted/needed!!!

Very happy for you both and hope the cold is better soon!
Posted By: optimist Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/30/03 01:31 PM
Well, if CJ is reading your posts, they are certainly working . As if he is not, he is reading your mind . What else can you ask for?

He is certainly showing some very positive moves. I'd be very encouraged, if I were you.
Posted By: talitsa Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/30/03 01:37 PM
CJ, if you ARE reading here:
Get thyself to a Dr. Ask about testosterone shots and Viagra (although there are good, less expensive alternatives).

Then jump your wife's bones more often.

Plain enough? Mucho importante, dude!
Posted By: optimist Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/30/03 02:07 PM
Tal, don't be unfair to poor CJ, it is Shiny's health that stopped him We just need to have her fixed and he'd be quite willing...
Posted By: talitsa Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/30/03 02:59 PM
Hey--after living in the House of Testosterone all of these years--I have learned a few things about guys. Blunt & to the point is often necessary!
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/30/03 04:16 PM
Oh, Tal, you really cracked me up there!!!

Well my cold progresses, but at least I work from home today. Got my lectures prepped for tomorrow, checked my e-mail and will do Septembers finances after posting.

Maybe my reward will be watching Dr. Phil...better be a good one today!!

Shiny
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 09/30/03 09:26 PM
Well the meatballs are made, the sauces have been cooking for two hours, the red peppers are ready to grill...I have 10 minutes to spare..

Hey! All you who were envious of the hot spell we had up here in August??? IT'S SNOWING OUT!!!

The ground was covered with snow this morning, it melted and then twice again it's poured down, this most recent gale coming in at a weird angle and a mix of snow/rain/ice...good thing I grabbed my herbs (parsely, oregano, basil) earlier. Can't believe the parsely and oregano are doing fine! (basil not so much).

Had a very busy day, school work, Sept's finances, and then started in on the sauce. I decided to not only do my zucchini red sauce (yes, zuch's from the garden too ) but also the whole BIG load of traditional red sauce that I need for my much beloved 6-cheese stuffed jumbo pasta shells. It's a Thanksgiving MUST!


And no, I'm not THAT crazy...Thanksgiving here is in less than two weeks, Oct 15th. Ours is always on a Monday...hence a long weekend to prepare! Tell me something my U.S. pals, why is Thanksgiving so late for you? It's sooo close to Christmas!

Well given my weather report today, you KNOW why ours is so early....winter's around the corner.

But as for yours....why is it on a Thursday??? Do you all have to work on the Friday??

Just curious!


Did up 55 large meatballs too (does anyone else put freshly grated parmesan in theirs?)...always nice to have those banked in the freezer for those days when we're too wiped to cook.

Can you tell I haven't eaten since breakfast at 11:00 and the smell in here is DIVINE?

Okay, gotta go stir!

Shiny

P.S. rolling perfect meatballs CAN be used as a meditation!
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 10/01/03 09:34 AM
Yuck! I am not into winter. I only like snow for Christmas and then I want spring.

Do not expect to see me before next year! Not getting on a plane to fly through sleet. Not EVEN for a 94 Mondavi Cab! David might as he is the red fan!

Did you tell us what wine was going to go with this wonderful dinner you are cooking? No, you didn't! I read your post before going for my crazy drive last night.

I hope I did not spoil your evening and it was very nice.

THANK YOU again. You guys have no idea what you all mean to me or how truly sorry I am.
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 10/01/03 08:40 PM
"Red" is about all I remember of last night's vino. ...No, wait, it WAS Canadian.

Hi all, just a quick check in, another loooong tiring day at work...LOVE the leftovers for dinner though!

Shiny
Posted By: optimist Re: Getting Closer!!! - 10/01/03 08:55 PM
Do grapes grow in Canada? I guess they are white, like polar bears
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 10/01/03 08:59 PM
Ha ha ha...YES grapes grow in Canada...the kinds that make wine usually hale from Southern Ontario or British Columbia. Although our neighbour has a nice vine of grapes that grow over our fence and onto our deck. They've all been frost bit now.

Very pretty, but pretty sour!

Shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 10/01/03 09:02 PM
Ice Wine!!

Canada makes a nice Ice Wine!!
Posted By: shinybear Re: Getting Closer!!! - 10/01/03 09:14 PM
Yes we do...although I'm not that big on the stuff... a tad too sweet for me, and very pricey!

Hi Pam...You being nice to yourself for a change????

Okay, made most of my rounds and now my arm is going numb. Time to read for a while...my new book on destructive emotions based on studies with the Dahli Llama sounds about right.

Catch y'all later.

Shiny
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 10/01/03 09:18 PM
You know since they have the conditions up there to make ice wine they shouldn't charge so darn much for it!

On the sweet there is a big variation from ice wine to ice wine on the sweetness. Plus have you ever tried it as a dessert wine???????
Posted By: psluke Re: Getting Closer!!! - 10/03/03 09:09 AM
OK, you cook this wonderful dinner, we discuss wines AND then you disappear!!!!!!!!

Sampling are you??????
© DivorceBusting.com