Link to last thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2359746#Post2359746Not sure where to begin, but I will start with snooping! Always brings out the worst in people!
My W went to a concert tonight with a couple of girlfriends. I on the other hand went out with a friend of mine. Alcohol was involved all away around.
When I got home with my friend about midnight my W was pretty intoxicated.
But coherent and funny. After friend left I was watching football highlights. I hadn't heard from W for 4 hours while she was at show even though at first she was texting with me.
I was already in a foul mood because a friend of hers had sent me a pic of them and I noticed she had taken her ring off(wasnt her actual wedding ring, but a ring she put on to "please me" since hers were packed). I didn't say anything as I figured tomorrow was a better time to bring this up.
Anyways couple that with the fact I didn't hear from her i decided to check her phone.
I saw a text from friend, who was at concert with her, asking where she was. No reply from W. I then looked at photos on phone and boom! Pics of OM at concert sitting with her group at concert! I flipped!! I saw red! I completely flipped. Ran upstairs tuned on lights and went nuts. She wouldn't respond or talk so I flipped the mattress up and her out of bed. She got up a charged me and starting swinging. I grabbed her in a bear hug until she stopped. Then the yellig began. On my old verbal abuse starting spewin out. I called her a lying whore, so on and so on. Like I said I completely lost it. Didn't even give her a chance to tell me what happened. Snooping, verbal abuse, not listening, anger, all the things i worked so hard at over the last 10 months right out the window in moment of rage.
Once things settled a litte a began to tell her that I don't see how we can survive this. I told her i don't think I can trust whatever comes out of her mouth about this.
I immediately then went and woke her friend up in the guest room. Her friend is friends with OM. I asked her what happens and she said it was funny they got into a fight. Not funny to me.
So I got back to wife and say fine tell me what happened. She said he showed up and he ignored for a while. He was on the otherside of he group of the people. After a while she said he came over and tapped her on the back and said hello, she said hello back and gave him a hug. He said to her, "I'm i suppose to just ignore you?"
She said, "i don't know. It's all in the past it doesn't matter"
She said later on she was going to the bathroom and he followed her. She said he told her there was nothing ever really there. To which she said she doesn't care. He then said just please don't say things behind my back. And she said she hasn't and won't.
This was the fight I guess friend thought was funny.
I then asked her about the pictures. She said she doesn't know who took them. She said her phone was just sitting on the ground. Weird coincidence if you ask me.
She asked me what did i expect her to do. "Act like high school and just walk away"
I said I don't have a problem with how you handled it with him, it's how you handled it with me"
I told her, If you would have texted me, "hey OM is here, just wanted to give you a heads up. I'll talk to you about it when I get home"
I wouldn't have flipped. Instead I see pictures of him on your phone and text from Friend to you asking where You are. That's where the past comes back and gets me.
Couple with her being drunk and me not hearing from her. Put that all together and it brings up bad thoughts for sure.
This will obviously be discussed more in morning, but now I'm exhausted.
I really don't know where I stand at this moment again.
This is the first time fights got physical and we are working towards reconciliation. Cani trust any if this? Do I ask her to completely cut off friendships? I've become good friends with this couple as well.
This is a really sad day for me. Our 6 year anniversary is next Saturday.
We moved into new house today. Wow, what a great first night to remember in this house.
Sorry for the long post. Had to get it all out
Good to rank here, too bad you didn't come here first to let it out
Well sure looks like trust issues on both sides has come up.
My thoughts are to take it to your MC office.
Don't let this get any further out of hand, you know it will only hurt both of you.
No question I wish I would have let this go till next day. But I lost it within seconds. I have never had rage like that, it scared me.
We discussed everything this morning and it was a great conversation.
I just asked her to give me the details on everything and she did.
She said she had a lot of anxiety about the how it would go the first time she saw him. She was really happy. Said there were no emotions or feelings and that she is glad it is out of the system and behind her.
We talked about the things I need led going forward and why some of these issues with trust are still happening. It was a very productive conversation, one that will continue with MC
CBT how did your W react to you loosing your temper?
She lost it right back. Yesterday when we discussed it we both realized it was a combination of alcohol, stress of moving, and the situation. The worst came out in both of us and it was learning experience.
It wasnt the set back I thought It would be, it was actually a building block and stepping stone away from the past
Just coming to kind of journal. The past couple of days I have been very disappointed me attitude and behavior. I think the fact that W hung out with OM Saturday had brought up a lot of bat emotions for me. I have gone back to "poking" her and trying to start arguments to discuss these things. This is not who I want to be. All of these things should be in the past. I do believe we when she says its all in the past, but why am I having hard time accepting this.
I feel like I am having some anxiety about our marriage the last couple of days because I'm not getting the attention I want. I've even said some nasty things to her and it makes me feel bad about me when I do.
I had finally got to a better place and was not bringing these thoughts up or even thinking about the much anymore. Then after she saw him its like it has brought up a lot of hurt and anger in me.
The W thinks we need to meet each other. She thinks it would help me move forward like it did for her. The OM friend tells me OM respects the fact that wife ad I are back together and nothing would ever happen.
I've told wife I could see myself meeting him, but its not like I want to hang out and be friends with the guy. This is only an issue became we both have become good friends with OM friends. I do want to continue to be friends with them so i do kind of feel like maybe meeting OM and putting the awkwardness in the past my help.
I need to focus on the future and let go of the past. Wasting energy on te unchangable past does nothing good for the positive future.
That is my plan. Time to get back to moving towards present and future
cbtdad,
I see that you realize that you lost it. It happens. Leave it behind you and get back on track. Everyone backslides.
You see that what transpired did not get the result you wanted, ie. you getting closer and connecting with your W.
Learn from it and move on.
A wise man learns from his own mistakes. A wiser man learns from the mistakes of others.
BKS
I need to focus on the future and let go of the past. Wasting energy on te unchangable past does nothing good for the positive future.
That is my plan. Time to get back to moving towards present and future
Hi cbtdad, Your plan above sounds like a great start for you. I think it's good that you recognize where you went wrong and are willing to change in order to move forward.
-cp
Had MC appointment today. We did an extended session for 2 hours. He walked us through the events that led up to the big fight Saturday night and that followed the next couple of days. Really went through our emotions and feelings stage by stage. I told him how everything seemed to be great Sunday afternoon, but the. A lot of anxiety was building in me Monday. I am having a hard time accepting a lot of things and this has brought up a lot of bad feelings about the affair and past.
I said that I feel a big problem in this is that my wife shows no empathy for me. That she shows no remorse for her actions. He asked if she was remorseful and she said no. She said bein remorseful to her is let admitting defeat and that she did something wrong. Are you kidding me?!? She said she is sorry that we had to go through all of this and all this pain, but she doesn't want to say remorseful because she feels like all of this needed to happen for us to get to where we are now. This is really hard for me to hear. The fact that she doesn't feel bad for all the hurt and anger I have is really getting to me and I'm having a hard time not blowing up about it.
Also explained to MC about the fact that W is "ok" with OM now. It's not that I think she isn't past it or that she wants to be in contact with him. That doesn't worry me right now.
What worries me is that she thinks that its alright and now she is ok with OM being around with other friends and stuff. I've tried to explain my concerns but it seems to go in one ear and out the other.
I feel like we are on a path for disaster, but I don't know how to communicate it to her because she just doesn't see it.
I'm really trying to keep a cool head at the moment
I said that I feel a big problem in this is that my wife shows no empathy for me. That she shows no remorse for her actions. He asked if she was remorseful and she said no. She said bein remorseful to her is let admitting defeat and that she did something wrong. Are you kidding me?!? She said she is sorry that we had to go through all of this and all this pain, but she doesn't want to say remorseful because she feels like all of this needed to happen for us to get to where we are now. This is really hard for me to hear. The fact that she doesn't feel bad for all the hurt and anger I have is really getting to me and I'm having a hard time not blowing up about it. I am curious to what your MC said her saying that? Did you ask her if she felt bad that you were hurt by this? Maybe the word remorseful can be thrown out and more talk about how you feel/felt can happen? More discussion and not relying on her agreeing to a word, does that make any sense?
What worries me is that she thinks that its alright and now she is ok with OM being around with other friends and stuff. I've tried to explain my concerns but it seems to go in one ear and out the other. Maybe see if the therapist can help with paraphrasing what you have said.
I feel like we are on a path for disaster, but I don't know how to communicate it to her because she just doesn't see it. Don’t rush this, but don’t let it go, you will need to get this out and said to move on.
I'm really trying to keep a cool head at the moment
I may be way off her, but I would not meet the OM.
Thanks for the reply JP! And the encouragement. Its been a while since I have felt a little nervous about things. Not a good feeling. The feeling a had in the "pit of my stomach" yesterday in MC office in the beginning when my wife said, "I feel like I did a year ago, hopleless and not sure why I am doing this"
It felt like BD all over again. Thankfully after 2 hours of MC he asked W how she felt now and she said much better and realize this is a process. What the MC did well was to show us what we have been working on actually worked because we had this huge blowup saturday night, but were able to sit down sunday and communicate great about it. It was my anziety monday that became an issue and he showed up and talked about how to seperate these things.
When wife said she didnt feel remorseful it was more like she had a hard time saying sorry for something that she thinks turned out to be good. She is sorry for the pain and hurt it caused. I just wish she would show it more often. MC said that this is some of the things tying in from her past and her upbringing. Working on this in MC as well:)
Wife and I have scheduled time to talk tomorrow about some of these things and I plan up bringing up my feelings and how I feel and why I am worried.
I am fine meeting or not meeting the OM. We have become really good friends with this couple that is good friends with him. One of the reasons wife wants me to meet him is because she said she had a lot of anxiety built up with what it would be like when she first saw him. She said it went away after it happened. She thinks it would do the same for me. I kind of agree in a way. The reason I would meet him is to take away some of the anxiety when we are at friends house. The few times we are over there Im always worried hes going to stop by and what is that going to be like. So in that regard I would like to meet him and get it out of the way. So if we are at the same place it will be done. As i have told wife I have no interst in hanging out with the guy or anything like that. with that said this is what I am trying to explain my wife. if we are over there and he is invited because its a big group of people then fine. But I dont want her thinking just because she is comfortable now that it would be ok for him to come over while im not there and just hang out with the couple friends and her. Does that make sense?
One more thing about OM. I dont hate the guy. I dont really have any ill feelings towards him. He didnt even realixe my W was married till a week after it got pysical.My W was lying to him about it, not really his fault. So the 3 months of texting before that as far as he knew she was single. After he found out she was married she informed him we were getting a divorce and currently separated. Sort of another lie to him. A she didnt actually tell me that she wanted a D till a week after it got physical.
Anyways because of that its not like I want to just hit the guy because its not like he came in on a happily married woman and knew it. Our mutual guy friend told me that OM told him that he respects the fact W and I are back together now.
Like I told MC, "Im so tired of OM being in our marriage"
MC replied, "he is not in y'alls marriage. This is between you and W. And the quicker you get that the quicker it will get better"
I am on the fence about meeting OM, for me it wouldn't work, but that is me. It may be the best thing you could do, I am just stating what I feel
What I said about talking it out and letting her know how you feel, I wanted to add that you need to be open and honest, get it all out, but not to drag it out. Once you get it out, let it go and move past it and don't bring it up again, you know this, you have stated this
W and I had a hard night Monday, but made it through and are also stronger now, but it was a hard night...
What a process this is.
CBT,
I didn't have any remorse after my A, either. Yes, I felt horrible about hurting my H but I didn't regret the A or have remorse. It wasn't until H and I reached the place we are in now that I truly felt remorse. Now it pains me to think that when we look back over our M, that will always be there and that I will be the one who did it. It makes me sad very sad and truly remorseful, however, it took a long time to get to that place. Right now, you and W are working through things and while she is all in, I know the feeling she had of "this is hopeless, why am I doing this". It is so easy for one interaction (large or small) to make you feel that way (for you too, I'm sure) after how far astray your M went.
I hope you aren't too hard on yourself for blowing up that night. It is completely understandable and you have done a great job so far. The important thing is that you were able to talk about it calmly the next day and move forward together.
As for how she felt that night, and seeing OM, and if she should have said something, etc. I have been in the same place. I didn't say anything because he didn't stir any emotions in me anymore so it wasn't a big deal to me. In fact, I saw him one night and when he asked how I was I said "Really happy" and I just hugged him. The hug had nothing to do with him, if that makes sense. However, H was coming to get me and happened to come right then. He wouldn't believe it didn't mean anything. My point is just that for one person, something may not have any meaning (OM) but for the other, that same thing has huge meaning. Now that you have talked about it, she is clear on what she needs to do if she runs into him again so that you feel safe and that you can trust her.
Like I told MC, "Im so tired of OM being in our marriage"
MC replied, "he is not in y'alls marriage. This is between you and W. And the quicker you get that the quicker it will get better"
Hallelujah! OM was in our M for a long time but that was only because of the power my H gave to him. He had long since lost all importance to me but he lived with us for 4-5 years. You can let him go now.
Thank you so much LTH!!
I needed that. What a great post and it really made me look at it from a different point of view. I sometimes forget this is a marathon not a sprint and its not going to be the way I want it overnight. That's what our MC was having us focus on, the fact how we handled it the next day. That was the biggest fight we had ever had in 7 years. And we were able to talk it out calmly the next day.
One of the things she brought up in MC Tuesday was that she has put a lot of faith in me moving forward. Putting faith in me that I am better man and that I will treat her like a husband should. Then she asked me to put that same faith in her. Put that faith in her that it is done and will never happen again.
LTH, you really helped me realize that OM is part of this marriage only because I am allowing. Those thoughts must and will stop.
Thanks again!
Ah, C, look at you. About the blowup, here's the important things. You learned from it. You talked about it. Big, big stuff for you. So, dont be too hard on yourself, sweetie.
The thing about the om is this. You holding onto him is stopping you from moving forward completely. You are giving him so much power. Power he doesnt deserve. Take it back.
He was a bandaid, a diversion. No importance there.
You are the one with the history with her, the child with her. You are the one with the memories. He is a blip on the screen.
Dont make him bigger than that.
Your choice, you know. Always.
Whatcha gonna choose?
I choose not to make him bigger. I choose not to allow him to be in our marriage. I choose to have faith in my wife like she is having faith in me.
I choose to be the man, the husband and the father I know I can be and that I want to be.
Now you're talkin, C! Put him where he belongs, in the past. YOu matter, your wife and child matter and he does not.
Proud of you, my friend.
That's what you have been doing so don't let this one incident get you down. Move on and this time it will be just the two of you. You are doing great CBT
Well I hate to be posting something like this today, but its just dragging me down.
Today is our 6th anniversary. Would never know it from wifes standpoint.
I got her a card and few things for her horse, nothing extravagant.
I got nothing from her. Not a thing. Not even a happy anniversary.
We had a long talk last night on the way to airport to pick her up dad.
I was straight up honest with her as i could be. I told her that this is not what I want in a marriage. I feel no emotions or feelings from her what so ever. My wife is afraid to be alone. I even told her that's why I believe we are back together. She didn't respond to any of this by the way. I've told her for 2
Months now what is important to me and none of it is changing.
Things that are important to me are physical touch(hand holding, hugging, kissing, cuddling, etc), wear her wedding rings, and make her facebook status married to me on facebook. I know the last one may seem stupid, but it would show me she's happy to be married to me. I've explained why these things are important and nothing has changed. I also brought my fears about being around OM and all she says is there are "hypothetical situations"
She doesn't realize I'm trying to boundaries in place and my fear of an affair reigniting.
My biggest problem is she shows no emotion towards me what so ever. I truly believe that she is in this because she is afraid to be alone.
I have even told her that I believe we are only in this situation now because she found out OM was a real POS and it wasnt because she really wanted to be in this marriage.
I am planning to bring this all up in MC on Tuesday. If I don't see any changes in a week I am leaving. I refuse to be in a loveless marriage where i am being treated like a roommate.
Sorry to hear that CBT.
I think it is wise to take it to the MC.
You have to be honest about this or it wont work, I am learning this. Hard to say some things, but you can't keep them in or ignore then.
Good luck.
Keep posting as you need.
Thanks JP. We talked this morning and i told her my concerns. She seemed to understand and actually repeat things back to me. I told her I was going to bring these concerns of mine into MC and she understood.
I am finding that piecing is not going to be anything shy of a marathon in itself.
cbtdad, hope you don't mind me jumping in here. the A must have been so hurtful, and such a raw spot. And having to deal with the aftermath must be so difficult. In a way it seems like she is holding it against you if you bring it up? Is that how it feels to you? I think it is healthy to have boundaries in place after that happens. Does she understand the reasons that you need those boundaries in place? What kind of boundaries have you set so far?
To me it would be reasonable to have her cut off all communication with OM and to give you complete disclosure and to be able to answer any questions that come up about her whereabouts and that sort of thing. Also to openly answer any questions you have about the A in order for yourself to understand and move forward. That is my 2 cents. Hopefully you don't mind me offering.
Thank you very much for offering. I appreciate it.
It was and has been very hard dealing with this. You pretty much nailed it. She does make me feel bad when I bring it up. She resents te fact that I bring it up. Like she told MC she doesn't believe anything positive comes out of it. She points out how she never brings up my past problems. How she doesn't bring up that I was sexting old girlfriends, or that I was a bad father and husband. She says that its seems pointless to bring past problems when moving forward and that doesn't do anything positive. She says that she has faith in me that I am not that person anymore and I should have faith in her that she has moved on as well from that.
We talked a little more about boundaries yesterday and she seemed to understand the reasoning better. I will bring this up tomorrow again in MC
The only boundaries that I have put in place is that she has no communication with OM. This is where there is a thin line and that we need to figure out
We have become really good friends with a couple that is friends with OM
So OM can be around, such as last Saturday at concert tha caused a big fight.
My W now says she is comfortable with him being around because she has no emotions or feelings and said it wasn't a big deal when she saw him and the anxiety is gone.
What i am trying to relay and compromise on is that if we are at couples friends house for a party of big group gathering and he shows up then fine.
What I don't want is her around him when it's just the 4 of them or when I'm not around. I don't want to lose this friendship either and I don't want to tell her that we can't be friends with them. So I'm trying to figure out the boundaries. Does that make sense?
Yes, that makes sense. I think you have set a good and reasonable boundary that you would not like her to be around him when you are not around. That is perfectly reasonable and understandable. I would feel the same way. Hopefully you can deal with some of those issues at your MC. Hopefully you can express to her that you have been hurt by her actions and that you will require some reassurance from her over the following months as it will take time for you to heal after what happened.
Going well JP. Thanks!
We had a very interesting MC appt on Tuesday. I had a lot of anger and was upset. She shed a lot of tears. In the end both of emotions were about wanting assurances from each other. We are both in a place well we worry about the other and our they really all in. But by letting those emotions out in MC appt we both realized we do want the same thing
I am finding that communication is vital.
It was and has been very hard dealing with this. You pretty much nailed it. She does make me feel bad when I bring it up. She resents te fact that I bring it up. Like she told MC she doesn't believe anything positive comes out of it. She points out how she never brings up my past problems. How she doesn't bring up that I was sexting old girlfriends, or that I was a bad father and husband. She says that its seems pointless to bring past problems when moving forward and that doesn't do anything positive. She says that she has faith in me that I am not that person anymore and I should have faith in her that she has moved on as well from that.
We talked a little more about boundaries yesterday and she seemed to understand the reasoning better. I will bring this up tomorrow again in MC
I am glad you brought this up in counseling. I don't know what the resolution was, however, I am with W on this one. I know many are going to get upset the second they read that but stick with me here. She is right! If you constantly bring it up, it continues to hammer home that what she did was worse than anything you did in the M. Or do you want her saying to you every day, "Now make sure you pay attention to me, take me out, hug me, go to the movies with me, cook me dinner, don't talk to me that, smile more" or whatever myriad of things you did/didn't do in the M that caused your R to be so disconnected she thought an A was ok? She has a right to be upset when you continue to bring it up. When my H brought it up, all I could think was "Wow, we will never get past this" and then, I didn't want to try because I couldn't come up with a reason to. I don't blame her for resenting it. It's either in the past or it isn't.
She says that its seems pointless to bring past problems when moving forward and that doesn't do anything positive. She says that she has faith in me that I am not that person anymore and I should have faith in her that she has moved on as well from that
I agree
When my H brought it up, all I could think was "Wow, we will never get past this" and then, I didn't want to try because I couldn't come up with a reason to. I don't blame her for resenting it. It's either in the past or it isn't.
Yup ^^^. One time, the LAST time, I had a reaction that squarely brought her A's up, my W said the above almost verbatim. I have worked really hard through and past it, because
I want her to continue trying. And I really can't re-do/un-do the past, can I?
What works for me is this framework: We both had been with others before we were M, and that FACT did not affect our relationship, because the past was past, we were on our own new journey together, so those past lovers meant nothing, right?
Reconciliation is a whole NEW M,
the past is called the past because it has passed!
Hey JP. Doing well, thanks for checking in.
We had a MC appt yesterday and it went very well.
We spent the entire sessions discussing boundaries and where we are at with these things. The MC said we both had very valid and logical points and concerns. And that sometimes couples come in with these issues and think mediation is going to happen. Lol
At the end he said we weren't as stuck apart on these issss as each other think we are. And this morning it actually hit me with what he meant based on other things said during session.
The W pointed out "not having faith in her" basically trust again.
It finally hit me. I do trust her. I do have faith in her.
But I still am hurting from this and I have not healed from this.
So the thought of her even being in te same place as OM is very painful. I talked to W about it this afternoon and she completely understood at that point. I toms her that I want to heal from this and move forward but that I needed her help in doing so.
On another front I had accepted a new job. I am leaving the financial planning world an headed back to the automotive industry. I got an offer that I couldn't turn down. W and I excited about this. Another new thing!
Yay on the job, sounds exciting! Glad to hear you and W are working on things.
An offer you couldn't turn down huh? No horse heads in your bed, right?
That is great! I hope things are continuing to go well CBT!
I think the absolute first thing that needs to be established after an affair is to establish and maintain "no contact" with the affair partner. I think you should stand extremely firm on this boundary, and I think you have ground to recover as she seems intent on engineering a situation where contact is inevitable.
During a romantic affair, there is a measurable switch in brain chemistry - contact with the affair partner elicits the release of massive levels of the pleasurable and addictive brain chemicals dopamine and phenylethylamine - in far greater quantity than can be produced when in a long-term relationship. And for years after an affair or a relationship, these pathways remain. That is why you see so many affairs with past lovers or high-school boyfriends/girlfriends, or so many on-off-on-off affairs. The briefest contact can immediately stir all the same emotions and within minutes they are as strong as ever. And if she is feeling these emotions for OM, she by definition isn't feeling them for you.
Your wife claims that she has no emotional response when she sees him - you can be assured that is definitely not true. Sure she may claim he is a jerk and POS - well they say something about girls and bad boys. Every time she sees something to remind her of OM, every time she hangs out with or at places she was with him, every time his name is mentioned in conversation, and definitely every time she sees him, or hugs (!) him, I can assure you she is getting an emotional reward. And this reward is at your expense.
I have been following your story for some time and am watching her actions since your reconciliation began - first she drags you down to the same city as OM, then she ingratiates you with mutual friends of the OM, then she is hanging out with and hugging the OM, now she is saying that she should be able to hang out with OM with or without you. All the while she is showing minimal remorse, she is blameshifting towards you, she is trying to rugsweep, and most worrying, she is trying to normalize all of this. You are looking for her to put effort into restoring your marriage and relationship, but she sure seems to be directing her effort elsewhere.
So, try to step back and take an objective view of her actions, not her words. Look where this has been heading. Look where this is going. And look who is leading it there. Her affair is not over, it's on hold.
Hey CBT, you know where to find me if you want to talk
Hey JP!! Things are going really well. New job started Monday and have been really busy. Be honest it's the first time since we moved that I am working full time so its allowed me to not really even think about situation and just be in marriage for now if that makes sense. Went to horse show over the weekend with W and it was a good time. I got to see what these bigger horse shows about and allowed some "healing" on my part. She did really well and won her division.
I've been feeling good about some things, but bad about others. I still feel like I'm "not wanted"
She isn't instigating sex, hugging, kissing, etc
Something we are discussing in MC.
But that post above by Fade definitely brings a lot of negative thoughts in my head.
Fade, I do appreciate you coming by my thread and posting. You hit the nail on the head with some of my concerns for sure. There are a few things Im not sure about though. I don't think she led me to the city where OM is. We were choosing between here and Asheville and here was just more logical at the time for business and her horse riding. Plus I lived here for 10 years and went to high school here and have a whole lot of old friends here. OM lives about an hour away, but yes definitely closer.
Yes, she is really good friends with a friend of OM, but as of now I am ok with that. I've become friends with her husband as well and they know the situation.
W has agreed that there is never a reason to have any contact with OM. She hasn't brought it up since a couple weeks ago and has had no contact with him since that one time last month. The incident helped in both of us understanding that this is a long term healing process.
I do worry that this can be "reignited" and that's why I say no contact.
So when she says she feels nothing "emotionally" and its in the past, do you think she is lying to me?
I don't know your situation. Can you tell me where you are "seeing or experiencing" this from?
I appreciate your input
CBT, Glad to hear you are moving forward and doing well
The intimacy is something that you certainly don’t want to sweep under the rug. That said she may have more work to do for her still.
I would also be interested in Fade’s background / story. The post made me spin a little just reading it, kind of harsh, but maybe that was the point.
CBT,
I agree with Fade in one aspect and that is that seeing OM still brings back a lot of feelings for me. I rarely see him so it is basically a non-issue but, that being said, when I ran into him in the grocery store a few months ago, it did bring back that rush for me and I thought about him for a couple of days. I also tell my H there is 'nothing there', but, before you get upset - there really isn't. Yes, on the rare occasion that I see him those feelings come rushing back but when I don't, he isn't even a thought in my head. So even though "no feeling whatsoever" may not be 100% true, it doesn't mean she is sitting around longing for him every day.
However, even though I got the rush, I removed myself as quickly as I could because I am NOT willing to go there again and risk my M. I have even filled in at the place I worked (where I met OM and most things took place) a few times and I know that, even if I saw him and had any feelings, I WOULD NOT act upon them. I am HAPPY with H, I love where we are and we are going and I am not willing to risk it. If I were, we wouldn't be here and (my opinion only) if your W was still willing to risk your M for OM, I don't think you would have made this much progress. Like I said, only going by my experience but it's a lot of work to put in if you really don't want to be there.
Think of it like this - in all of your years of M, were you ever attracted to someone else? Even someone you met in passing? You didn't act on it because your M was good.
If you M is good, W will not act on any feelings that may remain. People have A's when their M's are bad (except for serial cheaters who cheat no matter what and that isn't W).
LTH,
Thank you for your post. Your insights help a great deal.
I have become aware that I have not healed from this yet and I realize its going to take time. It's made me a lot more patient now.
I completely get what you are saying. I think my wifes reaction the next day was one of excitement. I can read her body language so well. She doesn't communicate so well, but speaks loudly with her body language and eyes.
The day after she saw him and we discussed it could tell he really didn't have any emotions about it at all. It's why part of me is thinking someday i might be fine with her being around OM if we all in the same place. She knows i will never be ok with her being around him when in not around. She respects that and we have moved on from that discussion.
The part you talk about being in a happy marriage is spot on.
The happier we become i begin to not even think about this at all.
I know how this happened. It's not my fault, but I understand how we got to where we are at. My wife is a "relationship" person. Serial cheater is even remotely a thought. So as long as we are in a good place the trust will get stronger
Work work work!! Lol
I am working all the time. Things at the home front are very good.
MC is impressed with how much better we are communicating. W is even opening up her feelings and letting her guard down.
We are now starting to get into behavioral patterns in our marriage. This is what the MC has us moving to next. We need to really work on the dynamic of our marriage. As he said there behaviors we learned from watchin our parents, who our both divorced, that works in the dynamic of these things.
Thanks for asking JP! Hope things are going well with you
Well I seem to be coming to a crossroad in my marriage. The W and i have been having a really tough time since Saturday night and of course it all stems from the past. Saturday night she went to a friends house who is mutual friends with OM. She went with my son because I had to work and she ended up staying the night there. The couple also has a 4 year old son. This couple is friends with the other couple that we have become close with. Originally I had told my W a few months ago at the time that if she wanted to be around this group of people we could see how it goes, but that I had no interest in gettting to know any other people that are connected to OM. It brought up so much hurt and anger Saturday night that I sent a text to her and it was about as honest as I could get. The text was as follows:
"You have no respect for my feelings and you proved it tonight. I couldnt have made it more clear this afternoon and you said, "yI get it" yet your actions are dictated by everyone else. Im serious W. Im sorry. I cant be in a marriage that I feel I have no respect. I will never be ok with any of this and tjis just proved it tonight. I just cant do this anymore. It's been 6 months and I cant even get you to say you're married to me on facebook. You wont wear your wedding ring. You cant say you love me. You want nothing to do with me sexually. You continue to hang out with people who are all connected to a guy that you had strong feelings for and argue with me why thats ok. All at the same time without showing me any affection unless i beg for it. This just doesnt seem to be something that will last long term. Thants as honest as it gets"
The response that night: " Whatever cbtdad. Im wearing my ring and I never planned on spending the night. I never said what time I would be home either. At this point you ruin any good time can have and would rather me be miserable"
move forward to this morning. I asked her to do something for me and she got upset quickly. I told her that I was leaving for work adn that I was going to get a hotel room and use sometime alone to think about things. Because we are set to sign a loan on the house Thursday morning and now Im worried about doing that at the moment. I get a text from her when I get to work, "I love you it kills me each time you do this"
She seems to always do this when she can tell Im at the end of my rope. This same couple is throwing a Christmas party in a couple weeks, which of course I will be working and even if i wasnt I do not want to go.
Anyways I asked the wife if she was planning on attending.
she says yes she would like to go.
I have beem straight up with her how much anxiety i have anytime she is around anything or anyone that has connections to OM. I have told her that I am trying so hard to move on from the past. It will never fully go away because of the horse industry and I have compromised on being friends with the one couple that she is close woth the wife, even going on a cruise with them in Feb.
But ive told her she is just compouding the problem by getting to know more people that are connected to OM and hanging out with them.
At this point I feel like I am about to become a WAS. I did something MWD should never do, but I sent her a text and told her to decide between that part of your life or this marriage. To let me know when I get home.
I am so tired frustrated with all of this. I feel like she doesnt care how painful it is. We dont discuss a lot of these issues when we should and it starts to build resentment in me, especially the lack of sex and sexual interest towards me.
Then unfortunately something snaps and my anger comes out again.
Maybe I am being controlling. Im sure thats how the W sees it. But I feel like I have compromised as much as I can with this.
Anyways, glad I got all that out.
CBT,
I’m sorry to hear all of this, you know posting here is a safe place to vent and I am glad you did.
Please do not engage your W until you are able to calm yourself down more.
Still seeing an MC and IC? I sure hope so.
It sounds like there are several issues that need addressed still, take some time and cool off, we both know when we are emotionally charges it only makes things worse.
I am finding out that Piecing is very hard and trying. Slow down for a while.
You’re in my thoughts
Thanks JP!
I don't want to walk away, but I am at a point that it is so hard to continue when you love someone so much and want to be with that person, but the feelings just dont seem to be mutual. We are still in MC and seeing him every Thursday. The funny things is we make progress, then something like this happens and we end up having to spend a few sessions going over all the saem things. Thats the problems, the issues havent changed. She doesnt seem to do anything to try and change it no matter how much I tell her certain things bother me or important to me.
CBT,
I went through the same thing and it wasn't because I wanted to be with OM. I wanted the friends I had made, I wanted to hang out and have a good time and when H asked me to stop going to the one place where I could have a great time no matter what, I resented it. Originally I didn't go, then I started going when he wouldn't know. It wasn't the same because of the guilt and the stress I would be 'caught' so I resented him even more. At least your W is being honest with you. Also, as I moved further and further towards R with him, this became less important and I did get to the point where I wouldn't go anywhere near the place, even if he wasn't going to know, because I didn't want to do that to him, didn't want to lie and didn't want him to feel the pain he would feel if he did find out. My point is that even though I didn't want to give up what made me happy, it didn't mean I didn't care about H's feelings. I also felt (very strongly) that by him telling me to give up what was important to me that he felt his feelings were more important than mine. Why are these friends important to her? Are they the only people she knows in the area because you are new there? If so, who else would she spend time with? You are asking her to give up what makes her happy to make you happy. I am not saying either of you are right or wrong. I understand the spouse who had an A needs to show the other spouse they are trustworthy. I also know that, for me, I felt dead inside for years until I had my A and then that opened up something inside of me that I wasn't willing to give up. You have to find out what she is getting from these relationships. Is it something you can help her get somewhere else?
As for sex and touch, that also took me a while. Again, not because I didn't want to be with H or want my M to work, it just did. I don't know the whole reason. I know that, for me, part of it was because we barely had sex before my A and then after it was 'so important' to him that I didn't believe that..otherwise we would have been having sex for the 3 years prior. I also wasn't in the 'mood' to have sex with H most of the time. When I would think about sex with him, I wanted it but then we would start to have sex and I was almost repulsed by his touch. I don't have any insight as to why because I never discussed it with a counselor but at the time I know that I thought it was because I didn't believe he would ever let the past go and we still had a lot to work through. It did improve but it took a while..now it is much, much better and I initiate as often, if not more, than H.
Don't beat yourself up for the text, sometimes you need to be honest and when you are rebuilding your M, it is important. At the same time, I also felt that way when H would be a 'downer' about something I was doing. It always made me feel that nothing would ever be different.
I don't know the answer, I can just relate to where your W is and what you to know that it doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't care for your feelings or your M.
Thank you LTH!!!
As usual you come through at the right time:)
The insight you give from you own experience is so invaluable. It helps me see it from her side.
Yes, we are new to area. So these are friends that she knows.
Plus I'm working a lot now and she says its lonely so she wants to be around people when she has the opportunity to do so
I'm headed home to talk to her
I'll update later. Thanks!!
Well talk with W last night was very productive. LTH your insight was priceless, thank you. We really discussed the whole situation and how hard everything is. W brought up a bunch of points about the things she is doing that I don't seem to notice. But after she pointed then out it definitely made things look different. I told her I'm not sure exactly how to handle these friendships because I realize she is lonely. Like she said, "she just wants some time with adults"
I told her its very tough because her making me happy means she would be unhappy. We are going to just try and have to figure out compromises as things come up. Starting with Christmas party next Friday that she really wants to go to . It starts at 6, I work till at least 9. My suggestion was that she goes at 6 and leaves at 9 when I get off to meet me at home.
Anyways, train seems to be back on the tracks.
Had the best sex last night since we've been back together. That was a plus:)
Wife and I met with MC yesterday. It got a little heated wen discussing this past weekend. The MC asked me why I am having the feelings I am and I told him that it still hurts and that hurts turns into anger. MC agreed that this is an unusual situation that we are in because majority of the time when an affair ends the spouse who had the affair completely withdraws themselves from any contact with the other person and their friends and family.
I told him what I am really struggling with is the lack of affection that I feel from my wife. He said we would begin to dive ini this next week.
I've decided that beginning today until our appt on Jan2nd I am going to keep a daily journal on my phone. I will include when she hugs me, says something negative, instigates sex, etc.
in that time I WILL not lose my temper or say anything about hanging out with other friends or things like that. I will not instigate sex. I figured I DB'd for so long that I can go 3 weeks to see what results come of it. I'm wondering if I truly put this all in the past and not bring up a single thing if I will see things begin to change.
We shall see
CBT,
I am happy for you, keep the lines of communication open - it is way too easy to get inside our own heads and create the wrong story.
Merry Christmas!
CBT,
I have been thinking about you and your W, esp the sex issue. After giving it some thought, I remember why I didn't want to have sex and it was the pressure. Even when H wasn't pursuing, he may not even have been mentioning it but it was there between us. I knew if we went out on a date, or went away, that it was expected. It wasn't natural, and even unspoken, the pressure was there and it was a huge turnoff for me. I remember going away together and we were on the beach and went back to the room for just a minute (not even 2 hours after arriving) and H wanted to have sex and started initiating it. I did just so it wouldn't cause a problem but I didn't want to because it felt forced.
I think you are really going to have to be patient here and be sure to give a lot of affection and whatever her LL is. Back off on the sex issue and I think you may see it turn around.
Thanks LTH! I have started to do that. Funny you say that.
My journaling has help me with this. I have started to notice a differnce with her already over the last couple of days. Most of the time we end up having sex is because I will say, " you in the mood for sex"
She responds, "not really, but fine if that's what you want"
So it's plainly obvious like you were saying.
My problem is my LL is physical touch, I crave it.
I woke up to her rubbing my back the other night while she was watching shows. It was so nice. It's not just sex, I love cuddling, hugging kissing.
PT isn't her thing though. Acts of service is. Which I have gotten so much better at.
Thanks for sharing LTH!
My problem is my LL is physical touch, I crave it.
I woke up to her rubbing my back the other night while she was watching shows. It was so nice.
I'm curious if you let her know how much you liked it that she was rubbing your back without being asked? And I don't just mean "thanks that was nice" but opening up and telling her how you feel- "it really makes me feel loved when you do something like that for me without me requesting it, it's important to me and I wanted you to know how much I appreciate it!" Because if you say "thanks!" when she passed you the salt and "thanks!" when she gives you a back rub, she may not realize how much more important that back rub was to your emotional well-being. I know this is a BIG problem of mine, I always thanked my wife for all things big and small but until I read 5LL I didn't realize that while I was being polite, I was NOT communicating my wants/ needs to her.
AS, so funny you bring this up today.
We had an appointment with MC today and I talked about how nice it was. So we discussed it in depth like that. I am really doin a lot to let go of the past and slowly it seems to be making a difference.
Most of the time we end up having sex is because I will say, " you in the mood for sex"
She responds, "not really, but fine if that's what you want"
Please don't do this! This, at least for me, is a turnoff all on it's own. Women are not like men, as Dr. Phil says "Women need a reason, men need a place". I would much rather my husband rub my back, hold me, kiss me, hug me, etc.. so there is a feeling of some closeness before sex. Don't get me wrong, I am all for a quickie sometimes and don't need elaborate gestures, however, I don't want that all of the time. I hated when my H would say something like that, I finally told him how much it turned me off and he stopped.
I know he was doing it because it felt like less of a rejection to him if I said no to that than to his actual physical advances but I am much more open to the physical advances then "Are you in the mood?".
PT may not be your Ws primary LL but most of us like it (I can't remember if there was abuse in her childhood? If so, she may not like it. Otherwise, I think most people like it to some extent). So get in bed, hold your wife, gently rub her arm, back, etc. Do it without any expectation of sex. Sometimes, do it just to do it and other times you can try to take it further.
LTH, that's the problem. No kissing, no hugging, no hand holding, she doesn't like to cuddle, etc
So unless she just straight up says lets have sex I have no clue when or if she is in the mood. I'm having a hard time with this because I want sex. At least once a week or I get frustrated. It's just the way I'm wired.
It's something she knows about and she knows about the touching issues.
Like we discussed yesterday in MC, she knows how important PT is to me an it makes me feel loved.
The problem I'm having, like I'm discussing in MC, is that she hasn't always been like this. This started a couple o years ago. She was never into PT as much as me, but she didn't pull away when I tried to cuddle. She kissed. She instigated sex, etc
The other problem is the fact that for 6 months with an OM she did instigate sex, kiss, all those things I want. Yet she can't do that with me. Kind of hard not to take it personally.
Tonight she is going to a Christmas party where OM's friends and family will be at and very possibly OM hisself. She said she would be home by 10, but it still bothers me and she is going no matter what. I am trying very hard to keep my cool and not be angry about this.
Like I told her it is hurtful to me that she would go spend time with this guys fanily members and that I would i never do that to her because I care so much for her and her feelings.
This is not easy, I understand why she wants to go because im working late and there are actually other friends there as well.
It's just kills me when she says things like, "I don't want to be rude, I already said I would go"
I'm like its not ok to be rude to people you hardly know, but forget about my feelings and how much this hurts and how hard this is to get over, especially when you keep wanting to hang out with these people.
Just gets me upset. I'm trying to have a whole lot of patience!!
So cbt, I'm going to be blunt.
What about this marriage do you want?
If this is all she can give you, are you OK with that?
I want my family together. I love my wife and I have actually fallen in love with here again. If this was to be the case a year from now, and we are still having no PT and those things then I would probably move forward.
I refuse to be in a sexless marriage as well as a marriage where I can't by physically loving in it. As I said before it wasnt always like this, otherwise I wouldn't have married her. I've noticed small changes over the past week. They have now been brought up in MC and I think that is starting point.
She is a lot more open to physical touch than she was a few months ago if that makes sense.
I think we will get back to that point or I wouldn't be fighting for this.
She is a great homemaker. Takes care of the house, our son and everything else.
It is really nice to come home to a clean house and warm dinner. This is something she didn't do 5 years ago and is something I want.
But it's happening now. Last night she told me she was happy and it felt really good. It was followed up by sex which she instigated:)
CBT, I am just like your W, I don't want to have sex much at all. I was all about it while perusing my W, now that she is back my desire has diminished greatly and I don't know why. I am working like he11 to figure it out though.
Hey LTH!!
Thanks for checking in.
Things are going well. I've been working a whole lot so I've got busy and haven't had a chance to post in a while. The holidays went very well. So much better compared to last year:)
Communication between us continues to get better and better. We are beginning to discuss my issues about physical touch in therapy and I think it's helping. She is undertanding more that it is how I feel "wanted and loved"
We really have settled in to a great home, which she has put a lot of effort into and I thank her for it all the time. Our son is so much happier now and it makes us both feel really good about putting everything we have into this marriage. We both came from broken homes and we don't want that for him. We can't control that in the future, but we are trying to give him a better example than we both had growing up.
We have really narrowed down my anger with the past. It just comes from still being hurt. My New Years resolution is to try my hardest to leave the past in the past. We have discussed it all, we have set boundaries and we are both on the same page. There is no reason to bring it up any further, except maybe in MC.
I am trying to be patient with the sex issue and she really doesn't know why she isn't in the mood ever or at least that is what she is telling me. I've thought about going on a sex therapist and even brought it up to her and she said that might be a good idea.
We shall see. Next week will be an exciting MC session.
We have been asked to be a test couple with the creator of the type of counseling we are doing here. We will have a session with him and be videoed while other therapists watch. Our MC has said he has done 8 of these and each time it seems to put the therapy on red bull or turbo charge. His words. Lol
cbt, it was interesting reading about your "blow up" on 10/20. A similar thing happened with my W and I before Christmas - sort of physical in that W was trying to slap and scratch, and I bear-hugged her until she calmed down. It was the first time anything like that had happened, but it was almost like squeezing the gunk out of an infection. I think we are probably more clear and fair and stop arguing very quickly.
One thing I would say about your W not touching/ML - I know with my W, she is facing up to lots of junk about herself that she doesn't want to, and doesn't like to admit. So there is a lot of emotional toil going on under the surface, because I believe many WAW that have As work so hard to justify themselves that, when they have to face the brutal truth, it stinks. Also, you've spent many months working on yourself, and I know my W has feelings of inadequacy because I've become the "spouse only a fool would leave" - while she's a cheater who has emotional issues, blew a bunch of money, acted like a fool in front of all of our friends and so on.
Not sure if your W thinks the same, but food for thought.
Oh, and my W told me, "If you didn't bring up OM, I'd never think of him again."
CBT,
I am glad things are going so well and the MC opportunity sounds fantastic. I believe the sex thing will work out, as I said, it took me a long time, too because that was the last thing to fall back into place. When you feel unloved by someone for a long time, it takes a while for all of the feelings to come back and having sex just to appease ends up with you feeling worse and it takes even longer to become whole again.
Thanks for posting JonF. Just cress your post on piecing forum. I will post over there. But thanks for sharing your experiences with your wife. I believe the less I bring up past the more it helps. My only concern is that I have to let it go regardless because she will have hard time ever letting it go. She is friends with OM's friends now. She will run into people in the same circles with him always because of her horse riding. This is were trust becomes upmost importance with me. The good news is I do trust her. The bad news i still have those nagging thoughts in my head telling me not to. They have gotten better and better over time and they get a lot a better when we don't discuss the past.
This past couple of weeks have been by far the best since we began reconciling our marriage. It has taken a long long time to get here and still have a long long way to go.
LTH, you know I want that physical connection so bad.
I think we had a major breakthrough with MC today. For the first time in weeks we didn't have to go back and talk about an argument or fight or blowup or anything like that over the week we haven't seen him. So it allowed MC to start diving into past. He began with W and she actually began to open up about her childhood. If you knew my W you would realize this is a huge deal. It's like a vault. She uses humor to deflect it all the time and he called her out on it and it worked. Looking forward to more because I think this gets to some of her issues with physical touch. Not sex, but holding hands, kissing, cuddling, etc
The affection is really want I'm looking for. The sex is a by product. I haven't instigated and its been over a week since we have had sex. But in ok with it because I know it's a process that we are working on. I believe it starts with the affection and love first
Hiya C, just wanted to stop by and say hi. Happy to see that things are moving foward and keep getting better.
You have to continue to dig in and have patience. This all wasnt broken in a short timeframe, so, it aint gonna get fixed in one either.
I hope you continue to have opportunities for your w to delve into her childhood. That often holds the key for a lot of our learned behavior.
You keep being you, my friend. You can never go wrong if you are.
Thanks Urworthy!! Always great to hear from you.
We had a our special therapy session yesterday. It was unbelievable.
In see why our therapist said it would put our therapy on "turbo charge or red bull"
We had a session with a trainer for EFT couples therapy, the type of therapy we are doing. Our session was videotaped and while 30 or so other therapists watched from another room.
I was so proud of my W. she was so nervous at first and I was worried she would shut down. But she opened up big time. When we left she said since MC was in the room with us she felt comfortable because she trust him and trusts that he wouldn't put her in a situation that was harmful.
That was good to hear.
The session started off asking us where we were at and how we felt in our relationship right now. We both said we had come a long was and were very happy at the moment. The therapist asked W about some childhood things. Wife talked about her parents divorcing at 5 and how her dad left and at 8 years old told her he came first and had to take care of himself. Also talke about her mom not being there either. How she felt abandoned as a child.
Well guess what I did for a year and half leading up to D-day.
I basically abandoned her. She talked about how the person she loved the most wasnt there for her. I wasnt, I know this.
There is a lot to this, but its amazing hiw she is begining to open up about her past.
At one point this led into her A. I brought it up and used te word "affair"
Her deamenor completely changed. She got a little guarded. The therapist noticed it and asked her what that was all about.
She told the therapist she hates the word "affair"
She said she feels like you have to be in a relationship to have an affair and didn't feel like we had one. She said that word makes her feel like it was all her fault why we separated and almost divorced.
LTH, this is what I am wondering. Do just have to be patient with this? I feel like she doesn't want to "own" it? It gets me upset because I feel like she is blaming the affair on me. I wish she would say, "yes you did what you did, but I still made my choices to have an affair and that was wrong"
We do not discuss the past anymore other than in MC and it has made a world of difference. I just wish she would not make me feel like I'm completely responsible for her decisions.
I know why it happened and I have accepted that.
At the end of therapy we got feed bak from other therapists watching.
It was overwhelming. So much about te progress we have made. A lot about our body language towards each other and how we "look" happy.
They said that I seem very loyal and that W seems very brave.
But the year jerker at the end was.
The therapist that did the session said that one onlf the therapist was tearing up and said that we are giving our son the greatest gift we can by fighting for our marriage. She said she wished her parents had done te same thing.
It meant a lot to both of us and we both started tearing up.
LTH, this is what I am wondering. Do just have to be patient with this? I feel like she doesn't want to "own" it? It gets me upset because I feel like she is blaming the affair on me. I wish she would say, "yes you did what you did, but I still made my choices to have an affair and that was wrong"
My H felt the same way, that I was blaming him for my A. I never blamed him for it but I know that by trying to get him to understand why I did it, he felt as if I was blaming him and it came across as blame. I also never thought I was justifying it when I really was. For example, he would say "I can't believe you had an A, I would never do that" and I would try to get him to understand all of the things I had done to change our M before it happened. At the time, I thought, "if I just keep saying it he will understand how hurt, lonely and broken I was but he was hearing "it's your fault I did it".
It's hard to explain and it is why I wrote what I did on Jon's page...the entire burden feels as if it is on you, the cheater, and that whatever the other person did doesn't matter at all. As the cheater, you are standing there screaming (literally or figuratively), "Hey, wait a minute, what about everything you did to me? That no longer matters because I cheated?" I wanted to hear my husband say "I am sorry. I know I wasn't there for you and I understand why you did what you did". He actually did say it but it was lip service and that was very clear by his actions and by the fact that he kept bringing it up and blaming me. Understanding why someone did something does not mean you condone or agree with it. I, too, felt as if we were not in a relationship and truly thought my H didn't care if stayed or not. I didn't want a divorce but I didn't want to be alone anymore. Not a good choice at all, it just seemed like one at the time. If the cheater doesn't feel their S understands how and why this happened, they are just blamed, they are the one who has to do all of the work to make it better. Even when you want to, it's a tough place to come from because you may never really get what you need from your S, which is true forgiveness, true understanding of just how alone and vulnerable you were to even make that decision and equal footing in repairing the damage.
What I am trying to say in response to your feeling that she doesn't want to 'own' it is that I don't think that is true. I think she still feels you don't understand how hurt and devastated she was and she is trying to get it through to you. Once I apologized to my H when I really understood and didn't justify, I quit looking for him to 'own it' and to 'get it'. Believe me, she gets it, she just might be talking about it with the wrong words. If her actions show you she is serious about your M, she is working towards a better M, will it matter to you if the words she uses don't ever match what you are expecting? (Use my example above, I was blaming and H took it as blame but I THOUGHT I was saying something completely different.) As for sex, what you have posted about your counseling experience and her opening up about basically being abandoned by both parents and then feeling the same about you, it is easy to see how she is trying to move forward but, at the same time, protect herself from feeling abandoned again. Those cheated on forget that the cheater also needs to build trust in their S again because they were deeply hurt and let down by you prior to their A.
I think you are lucky to have found what appears to be a great therapist and I hope that as you continue to work through this, she will be able to give you the physical love and affection you need and deserve.
Thanks LTH. Your insights are so helpful in my situation.
She is definitely showing by actions that he wants to be in this marriage.
You brought up a very good point in your post. I hadn't truly forgiven her for this months ago. The last month or so since we have stopped talking about it things have gotten so much better. In my mind I completely understand why this happened and what led to it. But you know what, I haven't verbalized that to her. I haven't told her that. I plan on doing that very soon. I believe she needs to hear it.
I get why it happened, I get why she needed to feel wanted by someone. It still hurts me to think about, but hurt and forgiving are two different things and I need to tell her that.
Hi CBtdad there is a person, paul19510 in newcomers, whose W is also very involved in the horse world. Maybe you could chime in on him.
Thanks for letting me know
Hi CBT, you still around?