Hello everyone. If you want to read my old posts they are under "thought it would be done by now".
Anyway, we are in piecing! And, it is not easy! But, I am so thankful he is home.
WE are in counseling and attending a christian based addiction support group together.
communication is much better.
I am looking for encouragment and advice. I sometimes feel like I don't know how to act.
Thank you!
Act with your and her best interest in mind.
I made a deal with my wife when we first started piecing. And it serves us well 5-6 years later.
"If I say something that could be taken one of two ways, and one of those ways is hurtful? Please don't take it that way. If we want to hurt each other we know how too without being all passive aggresive. But let me know how I could say it better."
It is hard how to act... you got so used to DBing that it gets hard to start being engaged again!
A few words of advice:
1. Take it slow - baby steps, think before you act and speak, try to lose any anger and resentment. Don't expect your trust to come back either, but don't act upon any mistrust and hurtful memories...
2. Do not expect! It takes time to change, it takes time to put what has been learned into action
3. Do not overwhelm your H with too much, he is still processing
4. Be positive, concentrate on the good things, and be forgiving. Live from this day onward, as 25 usually says...
Do post and tell us whats happening!
Thank you everyone for all the advice. I do appreciate it.
I wake up every day and at some point in the morning I have to remind myself- forgive as Christ forgave me! Boy, not easy. But the pain is a little less all the time. 25years- hoping you would chime in. You have taught me a lot. We are off to a marriage weekend in March.
THings are going good. 25yearsMLC - I was hoping you would stop by. I learned so much from you and others on here. I am still learning though. I think M is always a work in process.
We are gearing up for our Marriage weekend that he signed us up for. Attending the addiction bible study group too weekly -together.
As I read through others sitch I am amazed at how right on everyone was about what was going on in my H's head. As a MLC/WAH.
I continue to try to make improvements in myself. I want to be proud of the person I am. I want to become the women God intended me to be. And, that is completely up to ME to do!
Anyway, just checking in.
We went to retrouvaille, and it was really an eye opener for H especially. Praying for you that everything will turn out right. When you walk with Jesus you have no fear.
25yearsmlc- stop by please!
Thanks angel61. Yes, it is good and comforting to know He never left me and never will.
It is odd how I go through a day or two fine but then all of the sudden just want to get an answer for something H did. Why? I want to ask. I know its me wanting something to blame or an excuse. I know it is not wise to re hash this stuff.
But what do you do with some unanswered questions?
How are you Angel?
He seems to being willing to do whatever it takes to heal our M. But then there is this side of me that feels I am letting him off to easy - he should "pay" . Deep in my heart I know my job isn't to teach him a lesson and it all has to come from his heart.
So, does it take time? He seems to have owned it all. But, will sometimes get a little defensive if I point a finger at him like"this is happening with the kids because of what you did to us" etc. Is that placing unfair blame?
What should I expect from him? Thanks.
Life,
Yes, you're in the place where you'll sometimes want to get answers. Whether or not to ask for them depends partly on you--will you be able to live with certain descriptions/confirmations? Will you be able to accept his answers without, as you say, blaming him or using them to make yourself "right?" If you feel you really must know, perhaps you could set apart designated times--no longer than 15-20 minutes--when you are allowed to ask those questions, after which you will have positive interactions. Be aware, though, that because your H is still processing his shame, etc, he may find it hard to comfort you afterwards.
As for "pointing a finger at him," try not to. Keep working on forgiveness for what he's done, and allow him to help you find solutions for what's happening with the kids, etc, without apportioning blame that will only make him feel stuck and take the focus off the real issue (the kids).
You should expect him to take responsibility for his actions, to keep working on his issues and to show commitment with his actions, but since you have no control over his timeframe, try to let that go.
This will be a very confusing time for you, filled with triggers, so keep working on keeping up the positive changes which brought you to Piecing!
Life,
FWIW I accidentally saw your post asking for my input, so I think there must be a better way to contact someone here. Maybe put it in the subject line??
Or they could allow for private messages...I would not have checked here otherwise b/c I post too often to go back to my old contacts, generally.
He seems to being willing to do whatever it takes to heal our M.
can you explain this ^^^ with specifics? Also I asked you a bunch of questions back in January or last month and some answers to those would help me to assess.
But then there is this side of me that feels I am letting him off to easy - he should "pay" . Deep in my heart I know my job isn't to teach him a lesson and it all has to come from his heart.
that^^^ SOUNDS like the punitive part of you talking. Then again, he walked away from all of you for MONTHS with no contacting his children
and living with OW and lying...and what was his explanation? Was there one?
So I get why you feel he has not "paid" but see, he cannot pay you enough to make up for it. He MIGHT be able to compensate over a long time...but only that would help you heal...UNLESS there's something your gut is telling you that makes you feel uneasy IS there?
So, does it take time? He seems to have owned it all.
YES it takes TIME....but you have said "seems to" twice now. Do you think he gets it or not?
But, will sometimes get a little defensive if I point a finger at him like"this is happening with the kids because of what you did to us" etc. Is that placing unfair blame?
What should I expect from him? Thanks.
Do NOT point fingers about the consequences you believe are happening now b/c of his past.
There is NOTHING HE can do about it now and that's the same as throwing it in his face.
So if your kids develop drug problems 10 years from now will that be HIS fault too? When will you let him off the hook?
Don't think I am lost as to why you feel this way. OF course the kids will act out and NOT trust that he'll stay or have nightmares or get clingy with him'
but don't you think HE knows that?
How does it help the kids or the "cause" to point your finger at him?
Not putting this all on you by a long shot...but tell me more about why he "must" have contact with OW
and address the other questions I posted and I can go from there...
(also FYI I'm working more now so I don't post as often)
Hi 25. I will try to answer the questions.
We have both agreed no contact. He blocked her number on his phone showing me proof from telelphone company so she can no longer call him.
He has always been where he says he is showing me proof with a call from work -caller id or phoning and letting me know when he is leaving etc.
HOnestly, I am not worried about him seeing OW again. Maybe I am fooling myself but he said it was miserable. He wanted to come home for a long time and just didn't think he could. Didn't know what life with me would be like after he had done what he did.
He has gone into detail why it was bad. Missing us, terrible mistake, empty life with out us, etc. It seems he basically used her as a place to stay, etc. And, used the alcohol to stay numb as to not think about us.
But, there is this little part of me who wants to stay on the defense as to not get fooled again.! He wasn't the kind of man to do this- but he did.
He initiated the addiction group we go to weekly. Reminding me that we have it when the day comes.
Next weekend we are attending a marriage seminar for 3 days. I asked way back when and he himself booked and made the hotel arrangments.
I am trying so hard not to point fingers. WOrking through my own sand!!
But, there are triggers of course. If I am upset he will come and hug me and let me cry and say once again- I am sorry.
I don't know if he will ever "get" it. The pain, the abandonment. Thats what I am wondering if it takes time for him to see the damage.
I truly believe he would do anything for our family.
I do know when "it" comes up it is still painful for him. His defenses go up. Doesn't get mad but will say "I can't fix you" or " I don't know if it will ever go away".
My response is - give us time! It has only been 3 months!!
The majority of days are good. I am glad he is home and so are the kids. I am still working to be the best wife and mom I can be.
I guess I was hoping for some encouragment from you. You walked this entire thing with me-and I appreciate it. Thank you.
I have learned to accept that the WAS might not ever "get it" when it comes to what they put us through.
And even if mine could, I think it'd be so painful to him that he'd probably turn away from it. Or try to forget it. At Retrovaille he broke down and sobbed and I knew in that moment, he got it. But no one can stay that down/sad for long and my h is also a proud man with a good self image, and I don't think the MLC conduct he engaged in, fits his self image at all.
So it's a lot for them to deal with...but sure, what about US??? We went through it!
I hear you.
Can't post more now but will later on.
Carry on and good luck.
COuld I get some advice on this weekend? 25years? Anyone? Thanks.
Okay, well I am off for the marriage weekend. I guess if anyone has any advice I hope to check into this forum while driving later.today. I wish I could get even some support would be nice.
Last year at this time WAH was making plans to leave us today we are headed to a marriage retreat. Wow. How a year can change things.
Well, it was an amazing weekend. An answer to prayers. Not sure anyone is even reading this anymore. But, thought I would update. SO many things said that needed to be.
Onto new beginnings...and learning from the past.
Life,
I am very happy for you and envious that you are in piecing with your husband. I yearn for that right now! Your strength and perseverance (a whole year?!?!?) truly inspire me! It has only been a month that my husband and I have been separated and it feels like an eternity. Any input from you would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks Stephanie. I am grateful too. I have learned so much about myself. A little late in life it seems but then again it is never too late.
It is still hard for me to give input as I feel like I am still walking this road. I can say to listen to the vets here. They know what they are talking about. It still amazes me that things 25years would tell me about H and what he was thinking ended up being right on-come to find out now during our "talks".
I do know H regrets the hurt he inflicted on me, his kids, our family, and friend. He sees it. He said he wishes he could take it all back. He says he knows he has "failed" us. He wants to change that. And, he is trying. I see it everyday.
One interesting thing he said is that for a few of the months he was away he tried to convince himself that I was the problem. He said - that lie went away pretty quick! They do wake up. Even if just small increments here and there.
I am proud he had the courage to come back and work on our M.
Life,
I have not been here in awhile. It got to hard for me to read while we were working on our marriage. All I know is that it takes time. Even when things are going well I think that we sometimes wait to see if the other shoe is going to drop.
I am glad that your weekend went well it sounds like both of you are committed at piecing your marriage back together. That is something to celebrate each day together.
I do not think that they really ever know the pain that they caused in us and that our marriages will not be the same. I think that it will be a long time before we will trust again and feel secure in our marriages. But I do believe that it will happen. We only have to get through the times that are trying for us.
You sound like you have a lot going for you and keep up the good work. Always hold you head high and know that piecing is not an easy road. It is harder for me then DB'ing was. Glad that you have found yourself here.
Help! Could I get some support? I know this isn't a very busy place but I don't know where else to go with these issues?? I am having a really hard time right now with my self esteem. It never used to be an issue for me but boy since this all went down ( H had A) it is all hitting me now. It is hard to explain.
Before he came back I was able to keep in all in perspective(after a lot of work) that it was him not me with the problem and didn't have anything to do with my looks. He even said that before he came back. But suddenly,
I feel like the ugly duckling. Wondering- is H comparing me to that women across the room, etc. He tells me often how beautiful he thinks I am. THis all sounds very immature as I type it.
But, I don't know what to do.
I am constantly thinking of ways to improve myself thinking maybe that will do something. I already lost 30 pounds and exercise.
Now I am rambling.
Thanks Alone for stopping by!! It isn't an easy road.
STOP! and relax.
What you're going through is perfectly natural. The part you have to understand is that your H left because something in HIM was broken. NOT YOU.
Forget about him for a bit and take care of yourself. You're smart, strong and a damn fine woman for even putting up with his crap. It is very very easy for the LBS to feel worthless or feeling they can be easily replaced.
That's not true at all! Remember that. Remember how good of a person you are. If you need to do therapy, do it. If you need to go for long walks, do it. Do the things that make YOU feel good. Even something as simple as putting on a new outfit, new hair or a simple makeover can make all the difference in the world.
Thank you so much for your response!! I do need to continue to take care of myself. It is so easy to get wrapped up in everyone elses needs.
It is hard to find support for this stage! Maybe it is just encouragment that I need. Either way thanks for checking in.
I am not doing T right now. I am trying to pay off my existing bill right now.
My bday is coming up and I think that is bugging me some. The age thing. I know OW was 10 years younger than me!! O well.
Like I've told others who have found themselves in Piecing, now is the time that DBing is especially important. Keep up the GAL and remember the empowerment and strength you got back. Continue to do those things.
In terms of T, you don't need to go to a professional. You can go to a priest, community group or social support group where you don't have to pay anything. Don't feel like you're alone in this.
This does get better.
Life,
I think once piecing starts and the "crisis" is over, a lot of what happened in the past comes back. It haunts us, gives us insecurities, the why questions come, the tortuous thoughts.
I don't know why, but I think this is part of LBS's journey.
This is one of the things that could derail piecing, I believe. I have been there, and in the few short months that we have been piecing, I have confronted my H, doubted him, continued snooping, etc. all to the detriment of our recovery. I haven't posted yet, as I am trying to deal with thisin a different way.
All I could say is for now, try to restrain those thoughts, and when you are wrestling with insecurity, try to think of how much the sitch has imporved so far and all of the things that you have learned from it. Think positive, push the negtativity out. In a sense, continue your DBing by working on yourself.
Just remember, we have the gift of time. Concentrate on each baby step. Look at your feet and not at the road ahead.
Thank you for the input!! Can someone remind me why I can't snoop???
My question- my H has always been sarcastic of which has not changed since he came home. For, the most part it seems innocent enough but I know there are times when there are bits of truth in his sarcastic comment. If I acknowledge the sarcasm he will say "I was just kidding -geez" ah no sorry I don't think so.
I have expressed my desire for him to just to tell me whatever "it" is in normal conversation instead of the sarcasm. To me - it is someone being a coward.
Anyway, he must be feeling comfortable again at H because here comes the sarcasm.
I want someones honest opinion. Am I taking it too seriously?
Comments like- "oh honey you have gotten so old" or "pants a little tight" When I type them they sound juvenile but really?
Also, remember this man had an A with someone 10 years younger so I may be more sensitive to that stuff in my mind. Shouldn't he be able to figure that out??
What do you think?
I've also feel like he has been looking at other W. If I do bring this to his attention he is mortified because he says he wasn't. NOw, he told me the reason I do that is because I must be jealous of these women.
I have to add. I am quite content with how I look and feel.
It seems his intention is to drag me down with him cause he feels like crap about himself.
So, bring it on. AM I over exagerating? Being dramatic? Am I as insecure as he likes to make me out to be?Thanks.
if my husband said those things to me it would hurt my feelings. they seem abusive to me.
Hi Life,
If your H has always been sarcastic, what has your typical response been? Are you still engaged in the same dynamic?
If you want things to change, you'll need to be the one who initiates the change. First of all, you need to consider your boundaries--what is acceptable, and what goes too far. How could you respond differently to his passive-aggression, to catch his attention and show him you've changed?
Are you quite sure that you are completely content with how you look and feel? It's good that you can recognize that he's trying to make you feel bad about yourself as well; the question is, having recognized that it's an expression of HIS problem, can you stop yourself from making it YOURS?
Typically, I walk away or say "thanks-that was nice" sarcastically myself.
I do not know how or what to change as far as responding to that.
I believe I am content with how I look. OF course, there is always room for improvenment which I try to keep doing.
THis is a man who I am suppose to believe is attracted to me. If he thinks these things about me how can he really be attracted to me? Also, hard for me to feel loving toward him with crap coming out of his mouth. I just feel like why waste your breath on someting "you don't really mean" Pointless.
I believe there is a bit of truth in his comments.
Life,
As has often been pointed out, when people tell us things that don't feel true, we easily brush them off. When there seems to be some truth in them, they sting.
One possible change would be to joke back--"Yup, let me know if the pants actually split," "You know, it doesn't seem fair that I keep getting older while you've stopped aging"--whatever appeals to your sense of humour.
The second issue is that he's deliberately pushing your buttons, and it's hurtful to feel that coming from someone we love. Perhaps turn it back on him: "That sounds like a grumpy comment--anything bad happen today?" "Sounds like you're frustrated/trying to push my buttons--is there anything you'd like to talk about?" If he sees you can't be rattled, and remain good-humoured and calm, he's likely to give up on the PA tactics.
Eventually, you want to get to the point where you can have a completely honest conversation with your H ("When you say ____ it makes me feel ____.") but you may not be ready for that yet.
"Can someone remind me why I can't snoop???"
When you are truly in "Piecing" it's not snooping. He should voluntarily let you see his phone records, daily planner, etc. whenever you ask for it and do whatever it takes to help to heal YOU.
If he gets defensive about it, you aren't in Piecing because he's still thinking about himself. He has to say "What can I do to make things right between us."
Good to know. I guess every once in a while I pick up his phone and just browse through it. I don't do it right in front of him usually but good to know it is not snooping. Those DB rules are hard to lose.
Mr.Bond - what were your thoughts on the sarcasm?
Thank you everyone for the response. After a day or two things don't seem so big. Thank goodness. We did sit down and I told H how that makes me feel when he talks like that. He said he didn't intend for that. I told him it does though-he said "Then it stops now". We shall see. I have not brought it up again and will not. One of my changes.
HELP! PLease!! I need some support, advice or encouragement.
I feel I have no one else to ask.
Things have been going quite well here at our house. Everyday I still decide I have to forgive. IT is coming easier to me.
Anyway, I went out to lunch with a gfriend the other day. SHe proceeded to tell me things about my H before he came home and how it all went down.
Of course, much of it did not line up with what H told me and how it came about that he decided to come home. Also, some of the info she gave me hurt obviously but also gave some kind of window into their relationship that he didn't portray to me. This is hard.
In my mind I am sure I have tried to make sense out of their R (OW)and believing some things are just my way of coping with it.
Well, I asked H about what she told me. He heard me out and denied it all. Said his truth has not changed. If I push at all he gets very mad at me. Please remember this is all Before he came home. But, yet I feel like -did he lie from the minute he walked back into our door??
He said how is relevant to now anyway. He thinks it shouldn't matter.
I don't like his anger. It doesn't seem justified in my mind. I am not worried about him seeing OW. But, man, did this open some old wounds. Ouch.
HElp please. I need help sorting this out. There is a voice in my head saying - would it have been easier to have gotten D?
That is not what I want but I don't feel very loved right now.
Just like there was only two people who had any real, valid opinion or contribution during the break down of the M...
There are only two people who have any real, valid opinion or contribution to the R...
While the info that you got from this friend may give you some insight... THEY do not know what your H was feeling, they were only hearing what ever words he chose to allow out of his mouth and any actions that he may have done...
Remember the "believe none of what they say and only 50% of what they do" mantra?
Your friend has no idea the truth of that... so what your friend is doing is only one, possibly very tiny aspect of what was going on for your H...
Understand that when an accident happens there are a million viewpoints and those aren't just from the witnesses who were actually AT the scene...
It is quite possible that your H wants damage control and does not want you to be hurt by anything in the past... and the past has no bearing on what he wants now...
As much as you will get intel from others...
The only two people who are important here are the two of you and the only important time here is the present...
the past... should stay in vegas...
Thank you!! For calming me down. It is soo hard for me not to let my imagination go wild. Or, doubt his intentions when he has lied to me in the past.
His anger upset me.. Still does.
Yes, the past is the past but sometimes I feel if I understood it I would prevent from happening again.
Just be detached from the past.
The info could likely be helpful... as you say, it can help YOU know when things appear to be going south... that you can do something for yourself, to prevent you from getting back into your patterns...
make sense?
Be detached from the past...
Just checking in. Not sure if anyone reads this but I will just in case.
THings are going well. We talk a lot about how we are trying to do things differently this time. How we communicate our feelings, etc. This does really make me feel closer.
I have to say I think I really got it last week when I truly realized I only control myself. Very freeing but also holds me even more accountable for myself. I guess I am a slow learner.
H has made several comment the last few weeks about how happy he is to be here. How it took him so long to realize what a great life he had/has. Those are good to hear.
I also want to encourage others with this. We were talking a little about when he left and was gone. I asked if he believed it was my fault. Is that how he got himself to leave us? Yes, he said. But, he said that lie went away after the first month when I realized I still wasn't happy.!! That my friends was golden to hear.
This journey is certainly not easy but it is worth it!
I have only read a few of your posts here, but I am glad to see you are feeling better.
My H and I are in piecing now and I have come to terms that if I really want this to work, I have let go of the past completely. I know it's hard and I do it one day at a time.
My H still believes it's my fault. But if that is how he wants to justify his behavior, then so be it. But deep down in my heart, I know it was not completely my fault.
Keep the lines of communication open between the two of you. Always use "I" statements. That helps.
Thank you for input. It is hard!! Just when I think I have a handle on it - it is like a wave hits me! I am not back to square one but still hurts. 25yearsMLC- wish you would stop by and see our progress. You were such a great help. Still are. Just want you to see I did learn something & always am!
Hey everyone! Still hoping 25YEARSMLC will stop by! ALways enjoy hearing from her and the others who helped me so much.
So thankful to have H home for F's Day this year! Hard to believe last yr at this time he was with OW and stood his kids up for supper on this day! God has blessed us so much.
I will not take this for granted.
We are still attending the bible study and addiction group together.
I continue to GAL. Also, choose to forgive daily. Wow- that is a tough one.
All I can say is to others is not lose hope.
Not sure how much longer I will post as I don't know if anyone reads this.
Hope everyone has a great day.
Just found this post and your comment elsewhere. Did not know of your sitch in April wherein you posted searching for Bond and me...So I'm sorry for the delay.
MODERATORS it would be nice to get private messages for THIS very reason...(just saying...)
Thank you!! For calming me down. It is soo hard for me not to let my imagination go wild. Or, doubt his intentions when he has lied to me in the past.
His anger upset me.. Still does.
Yes, the past is the past but sometimes I feel if I understood it I would prevent from happening again.
I have OFTEN thought this too...but I don't know how true it is. I guess what I do know is
there is no way to KNOW if we really understand something...how can we KNOW we are "getting it"?
What if THEY the WAS do not know why, or do not themselves understand OR are too ashamed to say the whole truth...what if they did know, but then they changed anyhow? So how relevant is it?
What if your h went through a truly "selfish ass" time?
whatever there is to "understand" is maybe only relevant as to what YOUR ROLE or behavior contributed since you are all you control anyhow...
maybe focus on YOU and what you know you have to work on, and stick to that for some chunk of time.
But I don't like your h's anger or indignation. If you can CALMLY say
"do you feel YOUR anger at me for MY discomfort, is really helping the cause?"
Are you in counselling getting solution based therapy? Are you going to Retrovaille? If not, why not?
Do you think you two can solve this all your own without new tools?
Your desire to "understand this to prevent it from happening again" -
might be better aimed at "gaining tools to avoid it happening again."
We did go to a marriage retreat/intense counseling session in March. This was at H's encouragement.
It was very revealing and healing.
Sometimes I think with his anger it is because he doesn't want it brought up ( what happened) I know this isn't right but I am just trying to understand him.
HI Just checking in... maybe I need to be in a different forum?. Not sure anyone reads this. But, just in case...everything is going well. Celebrated our 21 st Anniversary.
Hello! I just saw your post on my thread. Thought I'd pop by over here.
To your question about bringing up OP with your spouse...
I'm not sure who said that it is bad, but i agree with that.
Why? Sure, I do think that the mention of OP could possibly bring up old feelings or memories for your spouse, but there is a more important reason why we should not do this...
Because we should not hold the affair or the fact that there was an OP over our spouse's head if we are working on reconciling.
I believe that to recover and have a successful reconciliation, that we do have to forgive our spouse for their choices and actions during the separation.
How can do we forgive... how can our spouse believe that we have forgiven... if we are bringing the subject up over and over again?? How can the marriage move forward?
I don't believe that it can.
Deal with the fact of the A. Forgive if that is what you choose to do. Move forward, create a happy, affair proof marriage... and look to better days.
You cannot change the past... no matter how hard we try.
I mostly agree with Denver. I do think that for the first few months of reconcilation, if the betrayed spouse feels the need to ask questions and get some answers in order to aid their healing, that the formerly-wayward spouse should do everything they can to create a safe atmosphere to do so, and to answer the questions as best and as honestly as they can. And the betrayed spouse, for their part, needs to thank them for their honesty and not attack them for any answers that they might not have wanted to hear. Often this obviously delicate ground is best covered in MCing, with a counselor well-trained in dealing with infidelity.
Once this healing period has passed, however, I would encourage the betrayed spouse to not bring up OM/OW, for the reasons Denver states in his post. I can honestly say that in the 5 years since my wife's affair, I've brought it up exactly ONCE in MCing (and that was over 4 years ago), and maybe 3-4 other times since then and those were all just "I think that's back when we were going thru our stuff" kind of casual references. NOTHING heavy or even containing any questions.
Starsky
I mostly agree with Denver. I do think that for the first few months of reconcilation, if the betrayed spouse feels the need to ask questions and get some answers in order to aid their healing, that the formerly-wayward spouse should do everything they can to create a safe atmosphere to do so, and to answer the questions as best and as honestly as they can. And the betrayed spouse, for their part, needs to thank them for their honesty and not attack them for any answers that they might not have wanted to hear. Often this obviously delicate ground is best covered in MCing, with a counselor well-trained in dealing with infidelity.
Once this healing period has passed, however, I would encourage the betrayed spouse to not bring up OM/OW, for the reasons Denver states in his post. I can honestly say that in the 5 years since my wife's affair, I've brought it up exactly ONCE in MCing (and that was over 4 years ago), and maybe 3-4 other times since then and those were all just "I think that's back when we were going thru our stuff" kind of casual references. NOTHING heavy or even containing any questions.
Starsky
I agree with that. I'm just coming from the perspective of someone who learned all that he wanted to know about the A/R between my W and the OM. I got all of the answers that I needed during the many months that we were working towards getting to a point that we could reconcile.
I don't have further questions, nor a need to know more. So, I
try not to ever bring it up.
I need to do the same. But there are so many holes either in his memory or the story. Maybe that I just can't even understand how/why he did what he did. So, maybe it will never make sense.
I try really hard to not bring it up. That is why I was asking about the brain/chemical thing.
I have a "friend" who seems to like to remind me of OW and of any sightings of OW. I really don't care and also- I wouldn't know her if I saw her. I need a break from this"friend"
I do feel like I am hyper aware about whether or not he is looking at other women, etc. This is dumb. I never did this before and now I find myself doing it now.
It has been hard for me lately to be a "women only a fool would leave" THings seem to be surfacing.
I am rambling and in a rush but will write more later.
I need to do the same. But there are so many holes either in his memory or the story. Maybe that I just can't even understand how/why he did what he did. So, maybe it will never make sense.
Are the two of you in MC? It seems that would be a great place to talk about this issue and these questions.
My W and I are not in MC. I would go, but my W is soured on it because of some poor experiences that we had prior to our S. She also does not believe it is healthy for us to go into it bc she thinks that it will simply be drudging up the past and finger pointing. I somewhat agree with that part. This is why we both agree that the Weekend to Remember is a good idea.
For me, I don't seem to have the questions that you do. I did have most answered though as our S progressed. So maybe I just don't have as many holes as you do. I have no need to know more about what happened in the past. I simply want to start over and move forward. That's not to say that I don't sometimes struggle with my thoughts, but becomes less and less as we move into a more normal life.
That's my take.
I try really hard to not bring it up. That is why I was asking about the brain/chemical thing.
Boy, I don't know. I agree with Starsky in the sense that the BS should be able to have his or her questions answered in the beginning. I also agree that that should happen in an MC setting. But I also think that this kind of depends on whether or not it was true betrayal... a true affair. I'm pretty wishy washy on the dating thing during a physical S. Sometimes I think that it is okay, and other times I think that the two people are STILL M'd even if they are physically separated. The bottom line for me though, is that either way, I have to be able to forgive. And that is for me more than it is for my W.
I don't know your sitch, but for me, my goal is for it to never come up again. Either in my thoughts or in my words. I think that in time that will happen and it will be a mere blip in what otherwise will be a good and happy marriage.
I have a "friend" who seems to like to remind me of OW and of any sightings of OW. I really don't care and also- I wouldn't know her if I saw her. I need a break from this"friend"
I would not tolerate this. You need to have a very straightforward talk with this friend and tell her/him how you feel. Just tell her to not bring the subject up. It is sensitive for you and that you are trying to move on. Her mentioning it is not helping the healing process.
Otherwise, I'd dump the friend.
I do feel like I am hyper aware about whether or not he is looking at other women, etc. This is dumb. I never did this before and now I find myself doing it now.
It has been hard for me lately to be a "women only a fool would leave" THings seem to be surfacing.
I am rambling and in a rush but will write more later.
I think that it is normal for you to feel like this. However, please remember, that men are visual beings. Much more so than females. I may get slammed for that statement, but I believe it. It is normal for men to notice attractive women. And to look. I'm sorry, but it just is. I can tell you that when we look, it doesn't necessarily mean that we are thinking about cheating, that we would, or anything else. It just means that we noticed.
I'm kind of embarrassed to admit this, but I've kind of trained myself to do a little self talk when I notice an attractive girl...
"Wow, that girl is hot. My W is hot too. I'm very lucky to have her in my life." Or something along those lines.
Maybe your H is doing the same.
Help! I need advice quick!!! H just got a bank statement in the mail today. It is from an "old" acct he opened when he left us.
I left it on counter. When he got home he stuck it in his pocket. So, I casually asked- what was your bank letter about? Oh its a statement he says. No, I said looks more like an overdraft. If it is he says, its from an automatic withdrawl. I do know he has that on there but he no longer uses acct. It is a automatic withdrawl for checking protection.
I asked him to show me the letter. He said No. I should trust him. He got very defensive. Now remember- he left us for 8 months, lived with OW and lied for years to me about money issues.
We have been piecing for 10 months and things have been going quite well I think. THis is the first "trust" thing to come up.
His phone has no password. He leaves it out in the open. Calls me all the time. etc.
He thinks I should trust him by now he said.
He did apologize later but still did not show me the paper. Stubborn or liar!?!
The tears just finally quit for me. The pain of the past came back like no ones business. I know I shouldn't cry- But what do I do????? Help please.
Ask him again. Don't accuse him of anything, but tell him that you've been struggling with what he did in the past and you don't trust him. And that as a show of good faith, you need to know that he's being honest with you and that trust is earned not given. And as his W you have a right to be comforted.
Have the two of you gone to MC after he came back?
MrBond thanks. I did ask again he said I already told you what was in it and that he thinks I am looking for an argument. Not true.
We have not gone to MC. I can hardly stand the thought of it right now. We did all that prior to him leaving. And, it isn't because of what I am scared to hear like some may say. I think I have hear the worst. We went to an intense marriage weekend last March and it was amazing.
It is as if he thinks he should be done proving anything to me. He feels its almost been a year,etc etc. He really hasn't slipped up yet. This would really be the first eye raiser for me.
He is just so unhappy with himself I think. THen if I question him or bring anything up it just escalates from there.
For example, he came home from work last night and I could tell he had been drinking a little . Please don't forget leading up to him leaving he drank A LOT. Lied about it and hid it. I don't like the drinking. I asked he told me yes I had a couple beers at work. Well, now how do I really know he wasn't at the bar where OW works?? I don't. I really don't think he was but how do I know. He tells me to call there. I am not that dumb. Like they will tell me the truth. Next thing you know this convo is out of control.
Bottom line: if I were to let him behave how HE wants to and do what he wants to and not talk about it or be upset then things would be great at home.
I will admit I tend to go on and on. But, I know its because he either walked away from me or never got my point. I need to work on this but not sure how. Either way it isn't an excuse for him.
The drinking brings back horrible memories for me. HE just doens't seem to get it.
Help please.
The thing is that you can't force him to see your POV. You have to guide him to understand it. I would suggest that you go out and GAL. Come home after he does and just let things go. The first thing he'll do is start asking what you did and where you went.
He needs to be put into your position in order to understand. Now most of the time he's going to act like a big baby and throw a tantrum, but let him. You can't control what he will or will not do. YOU just go and enjoy YOUR life.
"H, I know that we've already talked about this, but I need to say one more thing and then I will let it drop. I am trying really hard to learn to trust you again. And I think that I have made a lot of progress. But what happened with us caused some wounds that aren't just going to go away quickly. It is going to take time. I realize that me asking you to see the letter may seem silly to you. Maybe it is. But from my perspective, it is confirmation that I can begin to trust you again... confirmation that I don't need to fear repeating the past. You and I being able to be completely open with one another and feeling that neither of us have anything to hide will make me feel more secure in the fact that you want to be with me... that you want our marriage to work. That's what I need for me right now. Hopefully, a day will come when I feel SO secure in our marriage and our relationship that I won't think twice about these types of things. Anyway, I understand that you have your perspective as well. So I will drop the issue now. I just felt that I needed to explain why things like this are important to me. Love you. Goodnight."
I think that all you can do is explain your feelings, and be open and honest with your H. You can't force him to show you the letter. And if you put too much pressure on him, you will come across as nagging. Though only you can decide if you trust him enough right now to let this go.
Denver
UPDATE: Denver , everyone. Hello! Haven't been here for a long time!! My stomach did a little flip as I logged on. WHen do those feelings go away?? Wierd.
Things are going fine here. Sooo busy, like everyone. Seems like I am the one having a tough time the last month. Not exactly sure why. But H did come home one year ago on T giving so I think just this time of year brings back memories of how hard all that was.
We do have so much fun together but he is just so unable to deal with stress with out barking at me or kids.
And, every so often I just want to say "how dare you..." A lot more recently. I want the past to be the past but it does rear its ugly head with me. Not him.
Some days are worse than others for me. I feel like right now I am watching for signs again of him being "unhappy' and then I am torn by thinking well if hes acting crabby do I act "as if" or do I act mopey(old behavior) until he realizes and apologizes!! I know- real mature!!
I guess I still feel like he should be thanking his lucky stars that he has his family back. Which means no crabbiness, etc.
Please someone straighten me.
I really not worried that anything is up. I suppose I should be using the stop sign method again. I have been fixating on the OW a lot lately too?!?/ I went off my wellbutrin about a month ago and think I may need to get back on.
I need some encouragement. Thanks.
Hello,
Hope I can help. What I gather from your last post is that you have NOT forgiven your H for his transgressions.
Which causes other obstacles. It seems that it keeps you sorta stuck and focused on that time in your lives. If you keep your focus there, inevitably it is going to affect you emotionally. It will began to eat at you and create resentment.
That's what I gather. Please correct me if I am wrong.
If it is accurate, the next step is to take action to address the issue.
Curious to know if you and your H have had any counseling/workshops since last year to improve your relationship skills.
One other thing, you said, "he should be thanking his lucky stars". That tells me that you have a sense of entitlement and that he owes you for allowing him back into your life. By doing this, you place expectations on him. When he does not meet them, you come away disappointed.
Since you are the one here, it begins with you. What are you doing to make your relationship move forward in a positive direction?
Which means no crabbiness, etc.
imo, that's a bit much to expect, don't you think? The former-WAS are still human and you don't really know what is driving his crabbiness unless you ask him, or confront him on it, directly, calmly, non-judgmentally.
Maybe he just needs to learn/practice new ways of dealing with stress, old habits die hard, at least for me they did/do. How can you guide him to that?
LJGH - I just want to stop by really quickly here. On my way out the door. It sounds like you already have the answers to the questions as to why you may be struggling. Get back on the med if that helped (btw, I take welbutrin too... good stuff), use that stop sign, and avoid the old behaviors.
I too struggled a bit the past few weeks. Also put way too much thought into the past and OM. Got a bit insecure when W got mad at me. It occurred to me though that I am probably the source of my own struggle. I am not doing what I am telling others to do, ie, put the past behind me.
Listen, after what we have been through, it is difficult not to think bad things when we are going through tough times with our spouses. But if we don't, we create our own unhappiness.... and we begin to forget the things that we learned here and with the books. Regardless of whether we just had the bombed dropped on us, or if we have been piecing for a year... we cannot control what others do, including our spouses. We have to learn to understand that not everything is personal. We have to learn to trust.
When you think about it, it is no different with a spouse who has left us in the past than it would be with a new bf/gf, or a new spouse. Nothing in life is guaranteed. Not our marriage, and not even tomorrow. Do YOUR thing. Be happy. Continue to be the change that you want to see in your H. Hold his hand (figuratively) and show him how to be happy in your marriage.
Keep posting if you continue to struggle. I will check back in after the holiday.
Merry Christmas!
Denver
Finally got a chance to stop by. Things are good.
Isn't forgiveness a process?? Hmmm... A process for me? It's been a lot to process
Finally got a chance to stop by. Things are good.
Isn't forgiveness a process?? Hmmm... A process for me? It's been a lot to process
I think first it's a choice. Then we have to keep making that choice again & again, maybe even daily.
And if we never saw it growing up, (I never did) then you might need tools to learn HOW b/c it's all well & good for us to say "forgive/let go", but if you don't know how, you need to learn how.
I went to a workshop that helped me, and also read some books a Therapist suggested. The books were not as helpful as the workshop b/c that was experiential,
meaning not a lecture or a book. But exercises that help us process forgiveness and work through it and get us to the other side.
And still, we have to recommit to those choices...check out Essential Experience's workshop, which I can definitely recommend. They have a website and other DBers have gone and can attest to what I"m telling you about its' value. (They provide housing too, so if you want to save money, or meet more people in it, EE has that advantage).
I've heard that Lifspring is also good, and it's in more cities, but I lack personal experience with it. All I'm saying is maybe you need a more intense strategy for getting to the other side.
But if you're okay where you are, then good! (But don't let fears of self discovery prevent you from getting more tools).
((( )))
ps
some of what you are discussing here is on my recent thread (or a thread with my name on it). See what you think.
PS 2
how are your kids handling things? Do they ask questions? That's an issue for my sitch b/c I thought ALL the kids were on board with "my forgiveness" plan and our reconciliation.
For a few years, mil's cancer/death kept the focus off our r, even though we were together.
But now, turns out, our youngest is NOT too crazy about h right now. And they drag me into their disputes, (she does most of the involving me)
but the point is, I was wrong to assume that MY work filtered down to them.
THEY Did not attend Retrovaille, h and I did. WE were helped, not the kids.
It's as if I thought they had gone or somehow picked up on my vibes sufficiently to overcome THEIR pain...my mistake.
25years-hello! Kids seem good. My oldest is 21 never brings it up. At one point after H came home I asked if he had forgiven his dad or where he was with it all. He said he forgave him and believes his dad was having some personal struggles. My other son has a disability. Feelings are hard for him to describe but I DO know he is so glad his dad is home. Now my youngest daughter who is a tween I'm not so sure. She felt replaced by OW's daughter and I think has worked through this but I see her not always trusting his stories. It's a work in progress
I can so relate to Denver's post. It's funny how we all seem to be going through the same feelings at the same time in our post crisis situation.
I too see my mistakes and weaknesses in the marriage. I really work evry day at being the best wife and mother i can.
But I do clearly see a man who really needs to do some hard internal work.
I too put him on a pedestal and blamed myself for everything!! After BD
I was dealing with a man who drank every day and lived basically a double life.
I couldn't stop that.
Anyway. My eyes Are open to him and myself.
I love him and my family. But I sometimes feel like a lot of the burden is on me. Maybe those are expectations I put on myself?! It's hard for me to explain but I feel like my actions are well thought out. Not perfect but with knowing the consequences of not being the best me or wife. He doesn't seem to have that.
He is working hard at the marriage. He is transparent and loving, honest and remorseful. But, more often than not I am surprised at the way he will act or talk to me. They are old habits I know for him. But honestly and I know I will get flamed but I feel he should be working on this. Not wanting to stir up problems. He will apologize. But it's a trigger for me and it takes all I have to walk away as to not start argument. I know he's human and not perfect but really?
Anyway, we are going to marriage retreat again and I am hoping we can talk some about this.
I too like Denver looked at some old fb things about OW and boy it did. No good I feel like I'm still looking for answers. This is hard for me. Help! Can I ask more questions at marriage retreat?
That's all for now. I love responses. Feels good to talk to others that have been where I have. Thank you!
Any feedback? 25, Denver, snodderly..... Thanks
Anyone ?? I keep checking but no one responds...
Hi,
I'm not to piecing yet, but here's my 2.5 cents, since I'm re-learning how to communicate with my W...basically, when I say/do something that triggers something in her, we agreed to have her say, "H, the way you said/did that triggers something in me that is from the past and doesn't work anymore, let's find a way that works". This is agreed to be said respectfully, and it does go both ways, I say the same to her. She is in MLC, btw, and replay's cheating (hopefully done), so I do have my triggers as well. Maybe sit down and work out an agreement with him regarding this, for both of you, because I reckon you trigger things in him from time to time.
T^2
I too put him on a pedestal and blamed myself for everything!! After BD
We were just talking about this in a thread in Newcomers, but yes, the WAS rewrites history such that they remember nothing but bad things about the LBS while at the same time the LBS rewrites history so that they remember nothing but the good about the WAS. Then when things get to piecing the LBS has to deal with the "real" spouse rather than the perfect spouse they've been "remembering".
But I sometimes feel like a lot of the burden is on me. Maybe those are expectations I put on myself?! It's hard for me to explain but I feel like my actions are well thought out. Not perfect but with knowing the consequences of not being the best me or wife. He doesn't seem to have that.
This sounds like a communication issue to me. You need to communicate your feelings to him and he needs to listen to you and validate. It sounds to me like you are afraid to express your feelings to him though. Is this because you think you won't like his reaction? Are you concerned he will get angry, or maybe dismiss your feelings as unimportant or meaningless? I apologize because I haven't read your entire sitch, but have the two of you attended RetroV? I think it is exactly what the two of you need to learn how to truly communicate your feelings and emotions to each other.
He is working hard at the marriage. He is transparent and loving, honest and remorseful. But, more often than not I am surprised at the way he will act or talk to me.
Us guys simply do not know how to properly communicate with women. We were never given the tools. So we do what we -think- is right, and it never is. When you tell us how you feel, we -think- we're supposed to fix you. So we respond by saying things like "well you need to do X, Y and Z and the problem will go away." And then we expect you to do that, and tell us how great we are for fixing your problems for you. Of course it's absolutely the wrong response, because instead of validating a woman's feelings we send the message that we don't care, that it's insignificant and easily fixed, that she needs to quit whining. I'm 51 and RetroV was a serious eye-opener for me, it really drove home just how poor a communicator I was with women my whole life when I actually thought I was a GREAT communicator!!
But honestly and I know I will get flamed but I feel he should be working on this.
Why would you get flamed? You are absolutely right, you BOTH need to work on this!! It is critical to the future of your M!
Not wanting to stir up problems. He will apologize. But it's a trigger for me and it takes all I have to walk away as to not start argument.
It's "more of the same" behavior. It's falling back into the old patterns that caused marital problems to begin with. It needs to change.
T2 when you said I trigger him I thought -now how does that work ?lol. Guess I'm still working on me. I. Never thought of that.
Yes a lot is still old behavior and we must change that. I'm really looking forward to our marriage weekend. We will tAlk about this.
Does anyone think its ok if I still have a few questions about OW that I ask when we are at marriage weekend?
Thanks
Hello. Could I get some advice on my question? I leave this weekend for marriage retreat a d would love some advice b4 I go. Thanks!!
My opinion, let it be, focus on the 2 of you, the OW is the past...and also I think this is something for just the 2 of you, or with a MC, not a group/retreat setting...I would be quite annoyed and shutdown if blind-sided by that in a group setting.
Let the questions wait until you are further down the R road. That's what I am doing in my sitch...focusing on rebuilding communication and connection with W...the details of OMs can wait until "we" are stronger. And W will probably then be more open to talking about, know what I mean?
Just my 2.5 cents...
T^2
HELP!!!!!,! We went to the marriage weekend. It was great. Interesting how I didn't have the need to talk about OW as much as I thought I would. Time sure helps with that. And H being transparent.
We really had a good time and good conversation.
I have noticed lately that H is going back to a lot of old behavior and I don't know how to react. I believe he struggles with depression. Maybe bipolar He will not take meds. He did in the past and it wasn't good.
Some of the things are so hurtful. It's like he's projecting his own problems on me. I am sensitive still. In try not to react over and over but I have a limit. What do I do? What do I say???? Help. .? I almost feel like he's comfortable and can just be him. His old ways. But I'm not going back to that. He can behave badly and hurt others with his words. And then I Or we are suppose to be over it. I can do that some times but HOW much do imput up with ?....
Could I get some feedback please? I keep telling myself to be the changes I want to see in him,. But for how long? And why does it seem he always gets to behave badly and I am to just keep going. How long do I do this?
Well I think I'm done. I've made chAnges. Worked on the marriage. Forgave what seemed to be unforgivable. But, he's still drinking.
We've talked about , fought about it. It's a lot less than b4 but still uses it to cope. Comes home drunk in front if the kids etc.
Enough. That's not what I want modeled to my kids. It's not what I want in a HUsband. The drinking was involved a lot in the past and I'm not going through that again. He's had time to change.
I did my best. I can say that. I really wanted this to work. I do love him and our family.
Are you still around, lj?
Hello I am.!! Life has been so busy. Right now things are good. I continue to work on myself. I DO need to keep up my GAL ing tho
H rarely drinking which is great. We are involved in a bible study.
Interesting tho. I'm having some triggers right now because of the time of year. In November it will b 2 yrs since H came home. I suddenly would like to ask h a few questions. A few that never got answered. More just the timeline.
Is this a bad idea?
Not to be rude...but this is partially why I quit posting about my sitch! Rarely any responses. I really have tried to keep up with others while I have been reconciling my M, Just not posting. Sometimes I just needed a break from the site and reading about others sitch would seem to trigger me.
I still have struggles just not sure where to get help.
thanks.
Interesting tho. I'm having some triggers right now because of the time of year. In November it will b 2 yrs since H came home. I suddenly would like to ask h a few questions. A few that never got answered. More just the timeline.
Is this a bad idea?
I don't think so, I think it's a good idea. Have you and your H been to RetroV? If not you should really consider it, it will give you tools that will allow 2-way communication like you've never had before. You should be comfortable enough in your communications with your H that you don't even have to ask the above, you just go to him and talk about it. RetroV can get you to that point, where you feel nothing is off-limits.
Not to be rude...but this is partially why I quit posting about my sitch! Rarely any responses.
This forum gets very little traffic. You'd get more input on Newcomers (even though you're not one anymore).
Hi lifejustgothard. I just read through some of your posts. AnotherStander is right, you would get way more traffic in the Newcomers section, although I will keep checking in to see if you are still here! How are you doing? It's great that you are continuing to focus on yourself and GAL'ing. That's great that you've been in piecing for 2 years. I got the big BD in Feb this year and we have had a CRAZY 6 months, to say the least. Then my H finally told me he wanted to separate and moved out. Now, 2 weeks later he is saying he was starting to change his mind about everything!
What kind of questions were you wondering if you should ask your H about? Is it really pressing to you to know the answers? Are you still doing MC? If so, why not bring up your question in counselling? If your question is something that would ease your mind then perhaps you should ask him about it in a calm, non-confrontational way and just tell him that you need to know for your own peace of mind.
Take care,
-cp