I am starting to feel like I should move over here. And with the new year coming, maybe it's a good time to start this thread.
This morning I got up and checked my email to find a long letter from H. The following is part of what he wrote to me:
I felt guilty because I was supposed to be your partner, your support, your husband... and I betrayed you. What a terrible mistake I have made. It became even more clear what a fool I have been, as I took [daughter] out for a walk yesterday. How could I risk losing her, you, my family... all that I love... all that matters so much to me. I was so wrong. I have opened my eyes and heart, though. It is possible for a person to wake up and change. I'm just sorry that it took this for me to understand what I already had. I can assure you that I wont go back to acting the way I did this summer... or even before. I feel so much now. I feel like a fool who allowed whatever to overshadow the love, the memories... the connection that we had. Now, I'm in a position of rediscovering all the love and passion that we have... and wanting to show you where I'm at in my heart...
For the past few weeks I've been having a really difficult time accepting his changes, and believing that it's real. But I'm starting to feel in my heart that maybe it IS real.
Ct...i dont know your story, i was just browsing other post and looking for insperation, saw this one.
Again, dont know the history but the email is worded beautifully and i hope it works out for you guys. Happy New Year...:)
Happy New year to you too!
I took a huge step last night and blocked myself from being able to go look at OW's facebook, and her friend's facebook on which she constantly writes on her wall. Today is the first day that I haven't gone to look or read about what is going on in OW's life. I know that from what I read the other day, she is back in the states and is in town with her friends and family. Apparently she came back early. When I read this, my heart sank. Then the fears took over and I started thinking.... what if he finds out? What if he contacted her? What if what if...
As I was sitting there feeling all of that spinning around, h walks in and says "Let's get a pizza and a movie" and was doing his funny dance lol. And earlier that day we prayed together for our relationship, and so I thought.... you know, I'm just NOT going to let this fear win out today. Usually when I feel fearful about something, h has told me he wants me to talk to him about it so we can work on that. But just today, I didn't want to let OW and fear win over the happiness we both are feeling.
H has told me a few times, he doesn't want to think about ow, doesn't care about what she's doing.... and wants the memory of what happened last summer to go away. He knows that I'm still healing and it will take time...but if he has let her go, I need to let her go.
Frankly, I'm tired of reading about her life, looking at her face, and wondering what H ever saw in her to begin with. She's not the most attractive woman... and she seems boring :X I'm tired of trying to figure out what it is he saw in her. It just seems pointless anymore and .... I hate feeling stalkerish just reading her business. Even if it is on the internet and made public.
Good for you CTflor! I just snooped lately and of course, the results are always bad. Now H feels like I am back to my spying mode, and its a huge step back for me. Darn it!
Looks like your H is way ahead of mine....
Angel, I slipped up. What is wrong with me. I was over at my friends last night visiting and she was showing me her facebook page as she was uploading photos. When she got up to get some drinks, I hopped on and what did I do? I went and looked at ow's facebook, just to see what she has been doing.
Feeling so frustrated about this. What am I really getting out of looking at her life. It's not like she cares about me, or my life, or is a part of it.
I didn't tell my h what I had done. He does know that I was looking, but lately I have not brought this up.
Having a really hard time at letting it go.
Ctflor-
How about setting goals for yourself? Say- for 2 days I will not look at her page (maybe even shorter if it is something you do several times a day). You will be amazed how good you feel when you meet that goal. Then try increasing the time.
I had a habit of going in and looking through my husband's room (he lives in the spare bedroom.) I would look under the bed, in the closet, in drawers, in the pockets of his clothes. I never found a thing- but I couldn't help myself! So I finally decided I would take it day by day. So I would tell myself, today, I won't go in there. I did slip a couple times, but I no longer have the urge!!
Hang in there- remember, the only actions you have control over are your own.
CTflor,
We all do. I think it is more of a struggle for the LBS once the crisis is over. During the crisis, we were in survivial mode, and for me then, all I wanted was to hold our family and marriage together. Once the crisis is over, the nuances of daily living takes over, the hurt and anger are remembered, and the expectations grow.
I myself have been having huge backslides since Christmas day. I guess the stress of the holidays have made me expect so much more. Read my posts. I haven't finished yet. But yesterday I learned that one of my best friends has gone to seek refugee status because her H is having two A's and has been hitting her, and I also learned that my sister's H has been having an A and supporting the OW through school.
Sort of puts things into perspective, and yesterday it was all I could do to gather my family round me and pray and be thankful. Today I have renewed my resolve to zip my lips and appreciate that my H has come back after his EA.
Just give thanks for all you have and work hard on yourself. take care!
Psalm, thank you. I'm definitely going to try that approach. Because I go in with good intentions, and by the end of the day I find myself wanting to unblock her and look. It's making me feel miserable inside.
Angel, you put it exactly as I feel it. I was in the crisis mode and desperate to hold our marriage together, but now that things have calmed down, all of the hurt and anger starts reeling inside of me.
It has been going on more often now and it worries me at times. I ask myself, will I ever be able to move on from this?
H and I have continued having some really good and open conversations about what happened last summer, his feelings, my feelings about how we got to where we were.
I'm trying to keep up with my GAL activities, and I'm not using them as a means to make H worry either. I know that I was doing this, by purposefully being gone too much or too late. After he voiced his fears... I did acknowledge his worries and I saw how I was using GAL in some ways to be purposefully hurtful. Don't want to be doing this...
I do try to keep the mystery going.. .and taking up things that interest me.
I have to do more GAL too, CTflor. I think it also helps to keep us from thinking toomuch about past hurts. We have to really and truly forgive and move forward. Easy to say but hard to do, but yesterday I was just talking to a friend of mine and he shared his experience wherein he had done something similar to a GF (been unfaithful) and that although he in the end went back to her and loved her, she would always keep his fault hanging over his head and did not forgive him and in the end, he left her because he could not stand being made guilty all the time. he was remorseful enough in the first place.
In the end we just have to think of what we really want.
After reading your post, Angel, then 25's new one over in new comers, I'm sitting here nodding and nearly smiling. Because it's TRUE and I'm screwing up.
There is a reservoir of anger just coming up in me. The past two days have been awful. I totally lost it on my h. Over a song!
We were out for a ride together and then... a song he put on OW's cd came on the radio. He reached forward to change the station and I said, "Why did you do that?" and he said, "I just wanted to listen to something else".
Suddenly I sat there seething. I know why he changed it... cause OW liked Queen, and "Thing Called Love" came on. I think I went crazy for about 30 minutes ..... and unleashed my fury on h.
Out of my mouth.... I say.. "No you are changing it cause SHE likes Queen, and I don't give a damn what she liked. I like Queen and I'm not changing radio stations every time a song comes on from a band that bitch liked."
He just looked at me like.... oh man. He kept quiet too. Kept driving slowly as we went over to a park to look at the moon. We were going to take some pictures together.
I think I wanted him to fight with me.... I just wanted to fight. I was angry as hell and I wanted to just have my say. I went on to say... "She also likes The Who, but that doesn't mean I'm going home and throw out every damn Who cd I have.."
Again, he stayed quiet... and then....after awhile...he says, "I'm so sorry. I know you are angry with me and I deserve this".
I was still angry, and I didn't care to hear "Sorry". In fact hearing him say it made my anger grow more intensely.
After we got to the park he calmly ... and sadly said,
"I am seeing the destruction and pain I caused you and I'm sick over it. I want us to move forward, and I can be patient. I just hope someday you can move forward. I don't ever want to go back to where I was last summer. I'm ashamed for what I've done to you".
I started to calm down, after he said this... then he got tears in his eyes, started to choke and nearly broke down.
I don't know WHAT was going on with me... but for some reason I had feelings like I just wanted to slap him, or make him suffer.
Not sure if this is normal either.
I'm trying to work through all of these emotions....
I'm feeling overcome by them... and for me to have this outburst is not like me at all.
Have to wonder why I'm freaking out like this.
H was off work today, and we spent the day doing various chores, and he spent time apartment hunting online and calling people/printing out apps, etc.
Inside, I kept feeling like.... he's hiding something again. He's keeping something from me.... and not telling me...
I don't know if it was just a blown up fear or something he was doing that triggered that. To be honest, I don't think he was doing anything.... but being engaged in getting things organized for the move. But to me, it felt like he had pulled back a little and it triggered this huge fear that lasted all day.
I finally did come to him when he was done with his work and I said, "Remember when you said if there was anything on your mind important about us, you wouldn't hold it in and you'd talk about it to me?" and he said he did.... and said if there was anything.... he would definitely talk to me. He told me a few times he loved me and held me....
but... for some ridiculous reason... I just kept feeling paranoid.
Anyone else go through that?
CT, don't get angry, but have you considered going for professional help? I think you do need it.
The way you describe your H, he is doing everything right. he apologized (mine has not , nor have many on this boards), he is sweet and loving, reassures you of his love. Its normal to find it hard to trust again, to have moments of resentment - but yours are uncontrollable.
I do have my moments and trust me, my H is still in MLC, and he has not even apologized, still has OW's number. I can't even mention OW as he gets all defensive. And yet I manage most of the time to keep my paranoia under control.
I urge you to see a therapist before you push you H away.
Yes it's very common to go through what you are. Now that all of your effort towards getting him back is done, your attention is now back to what he did. If you are having a hard time, go and see an IC.
Thanks Angel, Bond
I know I need a therapist. I think I'm okay for awhile, then I feel crazy and completely depressed, paranoid, then angry.
I'm moving out of state in approximately five weeks and I don't know if I want to search for a therapist, get to know them then have to leave and find another.
Angel, I HAVE to calm down. I know I'm going to push him away. Right now he's taking the understanding stance to this, but how long can that last? It's not good.
Bond, I really feel that. I was in survival mode and putting all efforts into getting him back.... now everything is just slamming me.
You don't necessarily need a T. You have to re-learn trusting your H again. It's not an easy road. I've heard it said that it may take 2 years to get over a betrayal like that. All you need to do is get started now.
In my head I know I need to do this, but I don't know how. And on the days I try .. and try to be closer to him the anger and pain surfaces. I find myself wanting to distance myself just to protect myself.
I was just reading this in 25's thread over in newcomers, hope you don't mind I post this, 25.
I can tell you Not to take it personally and I mean it...but you'd say at the time, "how can I not?" There's the rub.
Alas, the Achilles heel...a beautiful kind young woman asked me once, THE question--
"25, if I'm so great, then how can my mate-the one who knows me the best, LEAVE ME? If I'm so wonderful, how can he stop loving me?"
(Indeed? We don't know "how" they can; we only know they apparently can.)
Her fear was what we all fear, i.e., that down deep, truly deep down, we are NOT so wonderful. We fear we are unlovable.
This is a lie. Wherever it came from or is coming into your head now, do not believe it. It is a lie. A falsehood to explain the act of another.
And somehow we have to get it through our heads and hearts (and my adage applies--where the head goes, the heart will follow...eventually)
that it is NOT about a WAS rejecting us, but about them still seeking what they have not found.
This just really hit me in the gut. I was cheated on in my first marriage, now this one. I've never felt like I was good enough, or enough for someone.
Somewhere inside, there is a small part of me that thinks, I'm OK , but when I look at H I have to wonder, why did he do this, and why wasn't I enough...... and why wasn't I what he was looking for. He's been with me all of these years. So suddenly I'm not the right person for him?
Or... it's just his MLC he was going through. I don't know.
::big heavy sigh::
This is mentally exhausting tonight. I just wanna figure it all out ...
It doesn't matter how much H has explained to me what he was feeling, and how to him, ow was secondary to what was going on inside of him.
All I can see is that he did this... he chose to do what he did with ow... and so.... now what.
Darn it, he made a mistake! A big one! Even God forgives sins, why can't you? Are you better than God? Don't you make mistakes?
Are you perfect? Ask yourself that, before you become too judgemental.
Was that how you acted with your first H too?
When will you make your own big mistake(s)? Maybe you are lucky, you haven't. Or maybe you just have not seen it. When that happens, do you want your H (or whoever is involved) danging it over your head like Damocles sword? On the other hand, if he/she showers you with unconditional love and forgives you and loves you inspite of it all, how would you feel?
Sorry for the 2x4, I am getting frustrated with your attitude. I have trouble with my actions too, but at least, I admit my shortcomings and don't try to justify.
I read this a few times over just to think.
There are some things here that speak to me, and a few that don't.
I know he made a mistake, I can accept this, but I'm not in a place to totally forgive. The pain is just too fresh.
With my first M, I never acted like that with him because I was afraid of him. He was abusive, emotionally and physically. I would not dare lash out at him.
I don't think I'm perfect... and I have made some mistakes, albeit not huge ones where I've cheated or walked out. I feel that I've always been the person who gets stomped on, going back to my childhood.
Right now I'm just stuck, and I'm definitely not above God, I know that God forgives and so should I but I think this is going to be a process.
I know that I have the ability to forgive. I forgave my mom, after 30 years of not communicating. She abused me as a child and teen, then pushed me out of the house and her life. When she came to me in 2007 asking for forgiveness, I forgave and we have had a relationship since.
I know I can forgive h, but I am just not there yet. I don't want to hold it over his head forever, no. Because I know how damaging that is going to be.
Forgiveness is for you, not for the other person. It is for you so you can move on. It does not mean to say that what the other person is "OK" when you forgive. It does not mean that you condone what they have done.
Being angry at the other person is like a festering wound in your soul, clouding how you think and see.
As 25 says, it is like lighting yourself on fire so you can blow smoke in the other persons eyes.
Why are you holding on to it then? When will you forgive?
It is a choice as well, not something that you have to "feel".
Just like it is a decision to love, and commit.
All I can see is that he did this... he chose to do what he did with ow... and so.... now what.
that is THE question isn't it? NOW WHAT?
1) You divorce him or 2) you stay married. IF you stay married, you A) either forgive him which is a daily process and series of choices to make
or b) you hold onto it and let it emerge every time you feel insecure and can throw it in his face or hold it over his head forever.
I suspect if you choose to hold onto it, you won't stay married that long anyhow so then you'd have wasted time while still heading to divorce.
So if you really TRULY are choosing to stay married, and I'm not sure you are,
then you really only have one choice. To begin the process of forgiving him and letting it all go...
and working on yourself so that your achilles heel is seen for what it was...mistakes others made in how treated you. As a child, NONE of that could possibly be b/c of you.
As an adult perhaps you chose poorly, which is not the worst flaw to have in the world unless you keep making the same mistakes with that flaw
and insure you'll never let yourself be happy.
The reason we hammer GAL so much here is b/c it helps with the self esteem issues too and a large part of what is holding up your ability to forgive is that you are not yet seeing yourself as the lovable woman you can be.
the happier you are with yourself and your life the less difficult letting go of the past becomes. Remember the words in our vows, "From this day forward"? I take more notice of those words now than before.
Become your best most lovable self and let that sink in your heart til you know it's true (and this is YOUR work to do and no one else's)...our happiness has always been solely our responsibility. Putting it onto someone else's shoulders is unfair and burdensome. Once you are a woman only a fool would leave and you KNOW it, then it will radiate.
What are your GAl things now and have you joined anything or taken a class so you can make new friends?
you can do this
(((( )))
Thank you Angel & 25. I've read your posts a couple of times through.
I think I should start with two days ago. I woke up feeling really happy. h had gone to town to handle some stuff at the DMV. It was so nice out, I decided to take a walk.
When I got back to the house, I saw a box sitting outside by the trash can and inside of that box was another copy of one of the cd's he had made for her, but it had been broken in half. I thought to myself... wait a min, why is there still a cd here when he threw out all of the ones many weeks ago? I say nothing and go inside and went to the bathroom and got the shower going. I felt like I had to calm down. But it didn't work, because it triggered anger in me like never before.
Got out of the shower and h is talking to me through the door. He sensed something wrong cause he said, "Everything OK?" and I asked, why are there still copies of these cd's around? he said, he had made a duplicate and found it stuffed inside of his bag that he had pulled out of the closet and wanted to get rid of it.
Good for him, glad he got rid of it, but I really lost it. I came out of the bathroom and went to the kitchen to get water and he followed me, apologizing. Said he didn't think I'd notice it.. said it meant nothing and that is why it's in the trash.
Another part of me took over and thought.. NOPE he's been listening to it this whole time.... what a liar. But the other part of me, the rational part said.... no, he's being honest, let it go..... let it go...... and all the sudden I just snapped.
I told him to please leave the kitchen and let me chill out for awhile. He would not go. He insisted on staying and talking this out. He was upset.... I just calmly asked him.... please.... let me have a moment to catch my breath, chill out.. etc. he would not go. He pushed me to talk right then, right there....
He said, "Let's get this out of the way so we can go on with the day. I'm not going to spend the entire day on this"
I threw my glass against the wall, breaking it and screamed at him.... "yeah let's just get this out of the way so you can relax and be comfortable".
H was in shock, and he just stood there. Then he walked out. Then he came back and started to clean up. I said "Don't touch that. It's my mess". And he said, "No, I am the one who caused you to feel this way to begin with, so I'll get it". I told him not to touch it... I took over and cleaned it up. He went off for awhile, and later on we did reconnect and talk calmly... and he told me, "I know that this triggered you.... I'm so sorry". But you know.... I still should not have acted this way.
Felt like an episode of PTSD. I don't know. But I feel that the pain is right on the surface and it's just boiling out of me.
H called the priest that afternoon... he is really fond of talking to him... and he offered an appt to me to talk. he has a background in counseling... he's been very supportive to H and H felt like I should go talk to him.
So I am going this afternoon for an appt. Even though we are in the middle of the move, I need to talk to someone.
I know that the anger is reaching epic proportions here and I have to deal with this.
I'm tired of being angry. I'm praying ... I'm trying.. it's not going away.
25, I don't want a divorce. That's for sure. If I did, I would have left him weeks ago. But you are right, if I can't work through this.... I'm certain it will damage what good has been accomplished.
I think I still have co dependency tendencies flooding back again with h. My GAL has been put on hold the past couple weeks, with all that is going on here. My self esteem issues are really suffering again.
Our happiness is our own responsibility....
This is true. Why have I grown up thinking that our partners are supposed to make us happy?
This is something I need to focus on too.... I have to keep working at this.
Also, forgot to mention. H had his appt the other day, and when he came home he said he wanted to get the book, the five languages of love. We are going to read it together.
The fact that your H was able to keep his temper with you hurling stuff is a testimony to how much he wants to set things right.
At least you are now recognizing that your anger is off the chart, and acknowledging that this is not right.
You are looking for the smallest reason to think negatively of your H. Seeing all remnants of OW going into the trash would have made me very happy! In your case it just triggers your memories, and worse than that, you are sooo ready to think the worse of your H. Imagine thinking that he was listening to it?That is very, very unhealthy.
Please, please get some help before something terrible happens.
That's true Angel. He also blames himself. I agree that if it had not been for his choice, I would not be here, but... I need to find a way to move on and stop holding it over his head. For now, he's in a place where he understands.
Went to my counseling appt today and it went well. It was helpful, but I still feel like crap tonight. I feel like I want to be alone.
Another thought..
By the time we get to retrovaille, it will be a few months. Will it still be effective and helpful then?
Ctflor, I've read your whole story (I think) and I am kinda worried for you and your situation.
The throwing the glass against the wall was, frankly, shocking to me.
I think you are carrying a lot of hurt, resentment and anger from your first M to the situation now. It sounds like you never really processed the cheating from your first M in a healthy way and it's coming out big time. H's actions triggered all that.
I really don't think praying is going to help your anger.
I read the situation with the CDs as a huge positive. I mean he was getting rid of that stuff and trying to do it in a way not to hurt you. Yet you turned it around on him.
I don't know of anyone who wants to live in a relationship where their SO could go off at any time and have that held over their head forever and ever. You've done this a couple of times in a few short weeks.
There are lots of techniques to help get your anger under control.
There is so much out of your control that can trigger your anger. Facebook, a song on the radio, your H on the computer, etc. I think it's a mistake to think you can just "avoid" your way out of this.
If money is an issue with therapy, you could start with the library and the self-help section. I can think of a couple of titles that could help you grow from this and work toward a place of forgiveness.
Because right now, it's not a good place for you, him or your daughter.
I hope for the best with you.
Ctflor,
I hope you don't mind me intruding on your thread. I was just checking out the other boards and read your most current thread.
I am just wanting to show you some gratitude as your sitch has brought up many memories that I have shoved aside regarding my own. I found just reading yours, has really helped me. So selfishly, thank you very much from the bottom of my heart.
Reading through the anger issues that you're going through in response to your H PA shocked me back into a time before my SO deployed. THIS is how I used to treat him. And the response your H gives you? This is how he used to respond to me. Not forever, but he would try at first to be so understanding.
Only I was like this to him over not even a EA, but rather telling a few women in a bar that he was single, when we were together. THEN I used to get this mad with him perhaps on a weekly, sometimes on a DAILY basis regarding his EX wife. It's called retroactive jealousy.
I couldn't help myself. It was like I was two people.
It took the rupture of our relationship to make me seek help. Now that I have the proper tools, I not only can deal with this stuff, but some of it (ex wife jealousy) doesn't even matter to me anymore.
He wasn't perfect, and he made some serious mistakes, but I was *horrible* and he tried to deal with me. So I thank you for the reminder of what I put him through, as I try to stumble through my breakup.
Best of luck to you and you sound like a great person who has a great H.
111
Regarding retrouvaille:
Yes, it will be of help for you. I think actually it is better for people in a more advanced stage of piecing. Your H obviously is doing his best to save the M, and you do want to save the M even if you are being hindered by your anger and resentment.
There are many lessons that can be learned at retrouvaille that will help both of you.
I urge you to go!
Also, do read Love Dare, if you haven't.
Ctflor, I've read your whole story (I think) and I am kinda worried for you and your situation.
The throwing the glass against the wall was, frankly, shocking to me.
I don't know that it was shocking. But I do know that I didn't realize how much I was holding inside until I threw that glass. I've been holding things inside for a long time. I'm worried for me too, because I'm hurting that much.
I think you are carrying a lot of hurt, resentment and anger from your first M to the situation now. It sounds like you never really processed the cheating from your first M in a healthy way and it's coming out big time. H's actions triggered all that.
His EA definitely dragged me right back to that place, of the pain I went through before with being cheated on, however I think some of that is normal. I went to therapy for a few years after my first M, and I did a lot of work on myself back then. I don't really give that much thought, or my first H, except to say that my current H knew about all of that pain I went through, and went on ahead and chose to cause me that same pain too. That's where I'm pretty much coming from, but I would not say I'm living directly in the past.
I really don't think praying is going to help your anger.
I think praying can do many things.... I witnessed a miracle this summer with prayer, witnessed a miracle with my daughter surviving her birth... I believe prayer can help me, but I also believe in helping myself too.
I read the situation with the CDs as a huge positive. I mean he was getting rid of that stuff and trying to do it in a way not to hurt you. Yet you turned it around on him.
I was angry seeing them. He told me they were all gone and when they popped up again, it brought me back into the pain I had repressed from last summer. I get that his action was positive, and I'm glad he tossed them. I don't think this process is going to be cut and dried for me. I'm still feeling a storm inside of me.
I don't know of anyone who wants to live in a relationship where their SO could go off at any time and have that held over their head forever and ever. You've done this a couple of times in a few short weeks.
Not so cut and dried for me. I'm still processing this, still trying. I can't stop what I'm feeling inside and shut it down. I have to handle it and address it, or I'm going to make myself more sick than I am now. Hair falling out, MS pain worsening, not sleeping well, anxiety attacks. After my appt yesterday, I've come to see how much I have held in, and how this must be faced. I will be dealing with it in a healthier manner, having a few appts with H before moving.... talking more openly about my anger, rather than reacting.
I'm not holding this over his head forever. It's been Sept, when I found out about his EA. This is still fresh for me. I don't know how to just shut my feelings off, as if it were a tap. Something I'll be working at...
There are lots of techniques to help get your anger under control.
There is so much out of your control that can trigger your anger. Facebook, a song on the radio, your H on the computer, etc. I think it's a mistake to think you can just "avoid" your way out of this.
Are you saying I should keep looking at OW's facebook? I'm confused. I don't think it's healthy to be going and checking her facebook... There is a lot that can trigger anger.... from what I understand.... in this process, sometimes we will feel like we are doing great, then suddenly something comes along that reminds us of the event.... and it hits without notice. I don't think I'm avoiding, I'm facing it head on.... but yeah I don't want to feel like I need to check her facebook...I want to put OW behind me... if I can't do that, how do I move on with my M.
If money is an issue with therapy, you could start with the library and the self-help section. I can think of a couple of titles that could help you grow from this and work toward a place of forgiveness.
Because right now, it's not a good place for you, him or your daughter.
I hope for the best with you.
Thanks, I really appreciate the feedback.
Ctflor,
I hope you don't mind me intruding on your thread. I was just checking out the other boards and read your most current thread.
I am just wanting to show you some gratitude as your sitch has brought up many memories that I have shoved aside regarding my own. I found just reading yours, has really helped me. So selfishly, thank you very much from the bottom of my heart.
Reading through the anger issues that you're going through in response to your H PA shocked me back into a time before my SO deployed. THIS is how I used to treat him. And the response your H gives you? This is how he used to respond to me. Not forever, but he would try at first to be so understanding.
Only I was like this to him over not even a EA, but rather telling a few women in a bar that he was single, when we were together. THEN I used to get this mad with him perhaps on a weekly, sometimes on a DAILY basis regarding his EX wife. It's called retroactive jealousy.
I couldn't help myself. It was like I was two people.
It took the rupture of our relationship to make me seek help. Now that I have the proper tools, I not only can deal with this stuff, but some of it (ex wife jealousy) doesn't even matter to me anymore.
He wasn't perfect, and he made some serious mistakes, but I was *horrible* and he tried to deal with me. So I thank you for the reminder of what I put him through, as I try to stumble through my breakup.
Best of luck to you and you sound like a great person who has a great H.
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Thanks.... you've given me much to think about as well. I don't expect my h to be forever understanding, or that this anger is something that can go on indefinitely. I was talking about this at the appt yesterday... about how important it is to learn how to handle it in a more healthy way.
To be honest, it scares the hell out of me. I don't feel like myself when it comes to the surface.
Regarding retrouvaille:
Yes, it will be of help for you. I think actually it is better for people in a more advanced stage of piecing. Your H obviously is doing his best to save the M, and you do want to save the M even if you are being hindered by your anger and resentment.
There are many lessons that can be learned at retrouvaille that will help both of you.
I urge you to go!
Also, do read Love Dare, if you haven't.
We definitely want to go... apparently there will be one near us in the bay area, and hoping we get everything finished up so we can make it.
Funny that you mentioned the Love Dare! I downloaded that app for my ipod a few weeks ago but never really checked it out. Think I will!
Thoughts for the day....
I find myself feeling good, feeling a genuine happiness. Like when our D does something funny and we laugh together, or something comes on TV and H and I are just rolling. He brought up a movie I had made a few years ago of him and D at the park when she was little... I had made a little movie with music and everything. He went and dug it up out of the desk and put it on the TV and I was OK until the movie started to play....
Then I felt this overwhelming pain hit inside.... I look at him, then all of this crap just emerges again. I found a way to reel it in... but later on when he was in the shower, I went outside for a short walk (it was cold!) and by the time I got back I felt better.
I wonder how long this will go on... inside of me, that is.
First of all, I don't want to think I'm attacking you or anything. You have been given a great opportunity here (most who are on the boards would kill for) and I would hate to see that all go away because of one issue.
I don't know that it was shocking. But I do know that I didn't realize how much I was holding inside until I threw that glass. I've been holding things inside for a long time. I'm worried for me too, because I'm hurting that much.
I go by the rule of what would I say to my 5-year-old if he saw me do that. I guarantee if he saw me do that he would be freaked out.
His EA definitely dragged me right back to that place, of the pain I went through before with being cheated on, however I think some of that is normal. I went to therapy for a few years after my first M, and I did a lot of work on myself back then. I don't really give that much thought, or my first H, except to say that my current H knew about all of that pain I went through, and went on ahead and chose to cause me that same pain too. That's where I'm pretty much coming from, but I would not say I'm living directly in the past.
What did you back then to work on yourself? how did you get past it? Obviously, you didn't stay in the marriage of other reasons.
I think praying can do many things.... I witnessed a miracle this summer with prayer, witnessed a miracle with my daughter surviving her birth... I believe prayer can help me, but I also believe in helping myself too.
I guess I worded this wrong. Prayer can be powerful for a lot of people. But I guess what I was saying is that i don't think you can rely on prayer and prayer alone to get through the anger (you know this). It's going to take other things.
I was angry seeing them. He told me they were all gone and when they popped up again, it brought me back into the pain I had repressed from last summer. I get that his action was positive, and I'm glad he tossed them. I don't think this process is going to be cut and dried for me. I'm still feeling a storm inside of me.
I get that. I mean it's been over a year since I found out about my W's EA and I still get have a reaction when I hear a certain song. It's gotten ALOT better, so there is hope. I don't think it's like a light-switch to turn on or off. It's a progression.
Not so cut and dried for me. I'm still processing this, still trying. I can't stop what I'm feeling inside and shut it down. I have to handle it and address it, or I'm going to make myself more sick than I am now. Hair falling out, MS pain worsening, not sleeping well, anxiety attacks. After my appt yesterday, I've come to see how much I have held in, and how this must be faced. I will be dealing with it in a healthier manner, having a few appts with H before moving.... talking more openly about my anger, rather than reacting.
I'm not holding this over his head forever. It's been Sept, when I found out about his EA. This is still fresh for me. I don't know how to just shut my feelings off, as if it were a tap. Something I'll be working at...
First of all I don't think anyone is asking you to shut down your feelings. They are natural reactions that anyone would have. I mean we all are different on the spectrum of feelings of course. 4 months after my W's EA, I was not nearly in the state of anxiety I was in.
I think professionals used to think letting your anger out was healthy and a way to move things forward. I think people are coming around to the idea that anger just breeds more anger. (note there is a difference between letting the anger out and letting the feelings that cause that anger out)
[quote]There are lots of techniques to help get your anger under control.
Are you saying I should keep looking at OW's facebook? I'm confused. I don't think it's healthy to be going and checking her facebook... There is a lot that can trigger anger.... from what I understand.... in this process, sometimes we will feel like we are doing great, then suddenly something comes along that reminds us of the event.... and it hits without notice. I don't think I'm avoiding, I'm facing it head on.... but yeah I don't want to feel like I need to check her facebook...I want to put OW behind me... if I can't do that, how do I move on with my M.
Well exposure therapy can be effective for OCD patients. (My W is a psychologist and has done with in this field) But I'm not advocating it for you, nor would I suggest doing anything without the guidance of a good IC.
Thanks, I really appreciate the feedback.
What I see is someone who is taking a lot of blame and personal responsibility for your H's EA. Too much in my opinion. Yes we all have our roles, but you seem to think that your H was doing this intentionally to perhaps cause you pain (or so I gleened) But there might me 100s of other reason for the EA that have nothing to do with our or your self worth. You are the same worthy person that you were before the EA...Nothing has changed that. No the M issue, not the EA.
CTflor, I found out that physically hurling things, even if not directed at my H, made him feel unsafe in his own home. So yes, it is shocking. I used to do that too, and did not think of it afterwards, but it became a big factor in his MLC mind as part of his justification why he had an EA.
I think Retrouvaille can really help you. It is all about feelings, in the first place. It will help you face those feelings and not act on them in a negative way.
I saw your post in my thread. So are you going to the April sessions? Did you mean the SF bay area?
Oh, I forgot to say that yes, praying together feels good. So far, we haven't started the couple devotionals, more of a family prayer, but I do feel closer to him afterwards, and also with our D.
First of all, I don't want to think I'm attacking you or anything. You have been given a great opportunity here (most who are on the boards would kill for) and I would hate to see that all go away because of one issue.
I don't feel attacked at all. I'm really grateful for the feedback! I know I am very lucky... to be in this position that I'm in, and lucky that things have turned out to be in my favor. H tells me "I feel good inside. Even though things are bumpy for us, I feel so happy that I am with you. I'm in a good place again and I feel more connected to you". This is good, and I'm glad to see h in a good place, but you know ..... the storm inside of me is still going on. Last month, I tried to suppress it... I put on my happy face. I ignored the hair falling out, I went on and kept tears away from him, and anger from showing. But the hair has been falling out, I'm dropping weight again. There's no medical explanation for it, other than I'm getting sick from holding all of this in. I don't know if that is healthy.
Way I see it, and according to the counselor.... during our discussion. H did this. He made this choice that has affected me, and now, H will have to deal with the fall out from his choices. H has told me that he will be patient and help me to the best of his ability while I deal with all of this. He is understanding of it. Will it go on forever? I hope to hell not. I want to feel better. I cannot shield h from my pain any longer. He is going to have to look at it. If he cannot handle it, then.... I'm sorry for that. I have to take care of me too. If I walk around shoving down my anger and my pain, then I think I'm going to end up very emotionally and physically ill. It has to come out.... and I know there are different schools of thought on that, but I really think it's not good to just hold in anger. I know there are many tools for handling it healthily and I'm doing that now, by going to counseling.... by taking care of myself.... by GAL, by talking about it and not holding it all in, until it erupts with me throwing something, like a glass.
I go by the rule of what would I say to my 5-year-old if he saw me do that. I guarantee if he saw me do that he would be freaked out.
My daughter was not home, and I knew she was not home. After H had that tantrum where he threatened to leave us when she was listening, we do not discuss our M when she is around.
What did you back then to work on yourself? how did you get past it? Obviously, you didn't stay in the marriage of other reasons.
I was going to weekly counseling and a support group for women in domestic abuse. I left my h, got divorced, moved away.. I got past it by getting away from him, and going to therapy. I stayed single for a number of years and didn't date for awhile until I felt I could trust again. It took me a long time to learn how to trust again, and I didn't allow myself to get involved in another relationship until I was ready. In all honesty, I trusted my h fully when I got with him. I didn't have any issues with not trusting him. I sold my home, left a good job, and moved to another state across country in order to be with him after we dated for a couple of years. So, that really took a lot of trust on my part to go that far.
I get that. I mean it's been over a year since I found out about my W's EA and I still get have a reaction when I hear a certain song. It's gotten ALOT better, so there is hope. I don't think it's like a light-switch to turn on or off. It's a progression.
yeah.. I really do hate that feeling when we are out together and a song that he put on her cd comes on the radio. It just really really... [censored]. I don't even want to feel that way in the future. I just don't.
First of all I don't think anyone is asking you to shut down your feelings. They are natural reactions that anyone would have. I mean we all are different on the spectrum of feelings of course. 4 months after my W's EA, I was not nearly in the state of anxiety I was in.
You know what is strange? I'm am way worse than I was when I was in the middle of H's crisis. I am feeling worse than I did after finding out about his EA and OW. When I was in the heat of all of that, I was really at my strongest. I may have been really scared, but I was not a huge emotional wreck. I seemed to be able to hold things together much easier. Now.... I feel like I'm really a mess inside.
I think professionals used to think letting your anger out was healthy and a way to move things forward. I think people are coming around to the idea that anger just breeds more anger. (note there is a difference between letting the anger out and letting the feelings that cause that anger out)
I mentioned that above... I just don't know what to think of this, cause as I said, holding it in and not dealing with it at all has been making me sick. then I end up erupting with behavior, like throwing a glass. I mean, I know it's not okay to continue that behavior... but I am working on ways to handle it when it becomes that strong.
Well exposure therapy can be effective for OCD patients. (My W is a psychologist and has done with in this field) But I'm not advocating it for you, nor would I suggest doing anything without the guidance of a good IC.
I feel sad and depressed when I go look at her facebook. It actually feeds my anger at h. I look at her picture and I think.... "Really??? HER? That? WHY? UGHHH" then I think...... "He was really going to throw me and our daughter away for that?" I mean.... going to her facebook just throws me right back into all of these dark feelings. I don't know if that is healthy or going to help me?
What I see is someone who is taking a lot of blame and personal responsibility for your H's EA. Too much in my opinion. Yes we all have our roles, but you seem to think that your H was doing this intentionally to perhaps cause you pain (or so I gleened) But there might me 100s of other reason for the EA that have nothing to do with our or your self worth. You are the same worthy person that you were before the EA...Nothing has changed that. No the M issue, not the EA.
It is really interesting to me that you have picked up on this. Even h told me in counseling that I have blamed myself way too much, and that I'm too hard on myself. H has told me repeatedly that what he did was about him, and not me. I think for the better part of my life I've battled with self esteem issues, and the abuse from my first M did not help much. But over time I think I really improved. I was feeling good about me again, starting to like myself more and more.
Maybe my attaching my self worth to h is co dependent and it is something I need to work at .... a lot! I did take his EA to heart, I know that I have gone over it in my mind .... why he did this to me.
Not good enough, interesting enough, pretty enough
Not exciting enough, sexy enough...
CTflor, I found out that physically hurling things, even if not directed at my H, made him feel unsafe in his own home. So yes, it is shocking. I used to do that too, and did not think of it afterwards, but it became a big factor in his MLC mind as part of his justification why he had an EA.
I think Retrouvaille can really help you. It is all about feelings, in the first place. It will help you face those feelings and not act on them in a negative way.
I saw your post in my thread. So are you going to the April sessions? Did you mean the SF bay area?
Thanks Angel. I did not even see it this way... that he may feel unsafe around me. I don't want him to feel this way.
Yeah, I'll be in the SF bay area.
Last thoughts..
Am I going to just lose my mind, or will this get better?
Honestly, I don't know.
There were times in the past that I had horrible anxiety attacks, and sometimes I wished I would lose my mind so that I could get away from the pain.
Hey, I am from the same area as you. I will probably meet you when you go to Retro as my H and I will be volunteering to help.
Do you have an account on the alt?
I can get better. I really but it not going to be fun or easy. My W and I are in a much better place. I'm not going to say that we are headed toward recon or anything yet, but I rarely let her see my anger, anxiety, hurt feelings over the EA.
It's been about 14 months since I found out about the extent of the EA. I don't think about it as much nor do I obsesses about everything, but every now and then something will still hit me. I don't know if that ever goes away.
But I do react to it differently. My biggest problem now is that our m is in a holding pattern. I'd feel differently if my W would commit to a recon.
My W has apologized multiple times. But one thing I don't thing she gets is how devastating her EA was to my self-esteem. Even though I know it wasn't 100% about me, it still hurt. I think I have some trouble because I don't always feel the empathy from her.
I'm guess in your case, it's similar. I mean your H has got to see that it's going to be a process to rebuild the trust with you and you have to be open to rebuilding that trust as well.
P.S. I didn't mean to suggest your D was home.
Friday and Saturday.... feeling very off key. Feeling a lot of anger and resentment sitting in my chest for most of the day. Don't really want to be close to h. Just want some space. The anger is at times, boiling inside.
Go to the doctor fri for a check up about my anti anxiety meds. Already, the doctor is wanting to pull me off of them. I don't think they are doing any good. And since I cannot tolerate anti depressants, I'm not sure what I can take that is going to help anxiety, anger, or depression.
The doctor refilled the meds for another 30 days, and will begin the process of tapering me down until I'm off of them.
To be honest.... taking any medication that is only going to push down the anger and pain I feel... is only going to make it resurface later on. It's going to put off the process that is needed in dealing with it anyway. It will either resurface in other physical ailments, or it will manifest in more anxiety ..... that cannot even be controlled with medication.
The only thing I can see helping is venting here and going to therapy.
Why in the hell do I feel SO freaking mad at him right now? I look at him and I just feel sick with anger sometimes. But I have managed to engage in deep breathing, in walking away and going for walks, in reading, in talking to a friend, etc.
I'm getting to the point where I'm tired of the anger itself. I'm exhausted and sad at the same time. Just when I think it's going to ease up and just go away..... and I'm smiling and laughing again.... BAM, it's right there again... like an under current.
I start thinking about ow's face, h's interest in her, the lies, and all of the deceit that took place. The lies directly to my face. It does not take much for these things to flood back.
Will this ever get better?
H has done everything he can. There is nothing I need for him to do at this point. This is for me to work out and for me to solve. Yes, he caused me to be in this position, but.... to me, he has done all I think he should.
He has already apologized numerous times
He has openly cried... many times
Has been very open about his feelings and emotions
Has been patient and loving
Has been a listener
Has already taken some of my anger and much of my sadness..
He's totally understanding about the place I'm in at the moment
Has written me a few letters over the past few months
Has gone to counseling, has been active in wanting to save our M
Expresses his regret and his desire to be with me..
There's more but I can't think of it all right now.
I'm right there at the forked road, and I'm stuck standing there.
I want my marriage, and I want to forgive him.... but I'm just not there yet.
"I'm right there at the forked road, and I'm stuck standing there.
I want my marriage, and I want to forgive him.... but I'm just not there yet."
CT - It is clear you are struggling and still trying to heal. I am sorry that you are having such a tough time letting go of the anger and resentment. It is important though for you to know that by hanging on to your anger and resentment, you are really only hurting yourself.
The other day Newt Gingrich's ex-wife did a television interview where she was clearly out to extract revenge on her former H. They have been divorced for 10 years and yet here she is, 10 years on and still clinging to her bitterness. It was not attractive and you could just see by her appearance that she was an angry woman.
Do you want to be like Gingrich's ex-wife?
Your H seems to truly be trying to make amends and there really is only so much he can do. IMO, it is going to be up to you to let go of the hurt otherwise your M may never recover.
Below are a few of my favorite quotes on forgiveness (there is another in my signature block).
Resentment is like a glass of poison that a man drinks; then he sits down and waits for his enemy to die.
--Nelson Mandela
We are all full of weakness and errors; let us mutually pardon each other our follies
--Voltaire
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heal that has crushed it.
--Mark Twain
I wish you well as you continue your journey and search for the path to forgiveness.
Wow. Those quotes really got to me. I came by last night to post, but after reading those I broke down and cried. I think it was a good cry.
I'm not into politics, so I went to look up the video on Newt's wife, her latest interview that I had heard about. I watched the entire thing, and studied her as she was talking. I felt empathy for her, because I also have MS, and ... well, I guess I understand her feelings. BUT, I also saw her bitterness, and her need to continue feeling angry and hurt after all of these years. I could see the trap that she's kept herself in. She too, was also the OW, when he left his first wife during her cancer treatment, I don't really want to go there.
No, I don't want that for myself. This much I know. I don't want to be even a year down the road feeling angry. I *think* I'm starting to see that I'm going to be the one suffering most, if I continue to feel this way.
It's not like the ex OW cares about us, or what is going on.... she's continued on with her life, unscathed from this because she didn't like my H to begin with. H had built up a fantasy for her, and when it all came out... he found out that her only feelings for him were that of friendship.
Shouldn't this betrayal of his be easier to get over, since it was never a full blown affair, or PA?
Why should I be obsessed with looking at OW's blog and facebook? Seems ridiculous.
I feel like I'm torturing myself or something... but I don't know how to stop. I don't even know if I make sense here.
Yesterday was actually a GOOD day. I felt good.. I felt calm inside. I looked at H and did not feel anger. We cooked supper together, we put on music and he got silly and danced with our D. It was .... just everything good.
Afterwards, after d fell asleep, we sat up and watched some tv, then we had a good talk. He told me how much he wants me to let go of ow, and stop looking at her blog/facebook, because he does not care.... and does not want her in our lives, even by my looking at her. He is worried and upset about me.... and wants it to just stop.
And you see what I hated most is..... after having such a good day... and that closeness with H..... OW ended up back in the middle. Because of me.
Thanks again 2thepoint, for the quotes. I've copied them and I'm going to print them out.. just to look at often.
I'm glad you enjoyed the quotes. If you study their meanings and see how they might relate to you and your own sitch, perhaps it helps to put things into perspective.
BTW, the Mandela quote was in response to a question he was asked about why he was not bitter after being held a political prisoner for 27 years. Now there is something to be bitter about, wouldn't you agree?
"Shouldn't this betrayal of his be easier to get over, since it was never a full blown affair, or PA?
Why should I be obsessed with looking at OW's blog and facebook? Seems ridiculous.
I feel like I'm torturing myself or something... but I don't know how to stop. I don't even know if I make sense here."
Any betrayal is going to be difficult to get over. Fortunately for you, your H's A did not turn physical. I was not so lucky.
But I think you are letting fear that your H might stray again cloud your emotions. I think it is important for you to seriously consider what might have led your H to stray in the first place. I mean I think your anger stems from betrayal and the trust that has been broken. And if you can see where maybe your actions led your H down that slippery slope and make damn sure that those actions are put away for ever then can't you see that your H would have no reason to stray again?
It just seems so clear to me that part of your anger stems from fear. But then if you knew that if the conditions were set just so, your H would never stray again and you could be confident in your trust and your fear would go away.
So then, why not create those conditions and free yourself of your anger and resentment?
Any betrayal is going to be difficult to get over. Fortunately for you, your H's A did not turn physical. I was not so lucky.
But I think you are letting fear that your H might stray again cloud your emotions. I think it is important for you to seriously consider what might have led your H to stray in the first place. I mean I think your anger stems from betrayal and the trust that has been broken. And if you can see where maybe your actions led your H down that slippery slope and make damn sure that those actions are put away for ever then can't you see that your H would have no reason to stray again?
It just seems so clear to me that part of your anger stems from fear. But then if you knew that if the conditions were set just so, your H would never stray again and you could be confident in your trust and your fear would go away.
So then, why not create those conditions and free yourself of your anger and resentment?
To the point, that is a very good observation.
I myself came to the same conclusion this weekend, I don't know if you are familiar with mys ituation but I am very much in the ssme boat as Ctflor, except that my sitch was more drawn out (1.5 years of H having an EA then then being rejected by OW but still keeping up their friendship, then finally, we are now in piecing).
I do bring up the EA and OW every now and then. Last Thursday, I openly, in front of H, checked his cellphone. H was angered by my actions, as he has told me many times that the EA is over and that he no longer feels anything for OW. He said he thought we had already discussed that we had to leave the past behind.
I explained to him that I know I was wrong, but that sometimes, fear that the EA may be rekindled makes me do something to reassure myself that there is no longer anything going on.
To make a long story short, we discussed about what was lacking in our R at that time that drew him to the EA, and how we are now working towards identifying the causes and making sure that such a situation will never come again and cause him to stray.
We both know it will be slow, and that we will make mistakes. As my H says, 2 steps forward, one backward. But someday we will get there.
We have started on the book "the Love Dare". the very first dare is for patience and not saying something negative to each other. Since Friday, we have managed not to break that!
Ctflor, have you read that book? I suggest that you do, even before doing the dares. I read it quickly (2 or 3 days) and realized right away how I was being too self righteous, and how I was not loving my H unconditionally. For me, it was a major step in lessening my anger and resentment. It still took maybe a year of working on it. The thing about it though was while I was working on it, H was still in his MLC land and I was DBing so I was able to detach as well. Deatching and losing the anger goes well together. Now that you are in piecing, you are more emotionally invested and that is why the anger is more intense.
Try to detach a little, Ctflor.
Last thoughts..
Am I going to just lose my mind, or will this get better?
it gets better. But you seem to think you have only two options with your anger.
Either repress it or express it, and both have downsides.
Let it go...turn it over to God. May sound weird or gimmicky but I found when I showered (so kids could not hear)
that thinking it, saying it and hearing it out loud, helped it sink in...
I said it A LOT.
Turning over my pain and anger over to HIM, helped Me let go of it.
I don't think exposing your h to it for long, will help you nor do I find him totally responsible for your reaction. You have to own some of this or you'll be giving someone else all your power. Plus He is in a good place now and that's a gift you were given.
I think there's a reason that the words "from this day forward" are in our marriage vows.
Let go of the past...it holds you back from enjoying the present.
& Hang in there
Things have been busy with moving issues!
But I had to stop in here and jot down something huge that came to me this morning.
As I was thinking over my obsession about OW this morning, it finally hit me...... his EA is NOT about her. It's about HIM and our MARRIAGE!!!!!! Something went wrong of course, with US.... and I'm seeing that OW (I should just call her EX OW) really was just the symptom for the problems.
Once I finally got this in my head and in my heart.... I also realize that I need to stop focusing on EX OW, and put it back on our marriage.
Yes I am still angry at him and EX OW, but in the past week my anger has lessened in comparison to boiling level anger. I'm really happy about that too.
I need to keep this mantra in my head going.... time to stop blaming.
And I probably need to just stop feeling sorry for myself.
Angel I haven't had a chance to read the book..... we ordered 5 love languages and haven't had time to read it yet with all of the stuff going on.
Good thing is, H and I are having a lot of open talks about our R and where we both feel problems set in. We both making time for us, with spending evenings after D goes to bed, cuddling, talking, watching a movie, whatever we can do.... and I feel like our M has been getting closer than it has been in a long time.
I feel him actively working on our M and seeing it.... and it inspires me to give back and work on our M with as much energy as his. We kind of meet each other in the middle, and there's this electric charge between us again.
I'm also happy to say that EX OW has privatized her blog and facebook .... which keeps me from bothering to look. Maybe this is just what I needed to help me move on. I can't say I'm still not curious about her or what she's up to... but it's getting better.... much better.
25, it's not gimmicky to me. I'll stand right up and say I know God had a huge part in helping me last summer... and helping my H turn around and come back to our M. I give Him the glory for that. My prayers were answered.. I just don't want to screw it all up.
Bath time really is a great way to offer it all up.... and the most peaceful time of the day.
Angel, I'm practicing some detachment again and it is helping too. Not too much detaching, but a little. I think it calms the anxiety somewhat.
Kind of been feeling lost in the dark the past month or so.. emotionally speaking.... but I'm starting to feel like I'm seeing a little light peeking in.
OMG, CTflor, thats exactly the same insight I had a couple of months ago! When H and I started piecing, that was around the time that OW was leaving back for her country. One day, I snooped and saw that H had called OW's phone number, and I also learned that there was a possibility that OW might still be working with H's company in the future. I blew up, and told H that I will not accept that kind of situation! H was so frustrated with me at that time, and told me he felt so bad because we had come so far already, but that I could not go past my obsession with OW. To make a long story short, after two days of crying and drama, I came to the same conclusion as you.... and to show you how I felt about it, here is part of a letter I wrote my H at that time:
"Dearest H:
It is so valuable that I finally did understand your stand. What you have been explaining to me since the weekend, that you finally realized that we did have love after all, albeit at a different level. That your greatest barrier to commitment was the thought that we did not have love in our marriage. That barrier is now gone and thus you were finally able to commit and decide to work on that love.
I finally understood that what you stated directly addressed my own barrier to full commitment (of which I originally thought there was none) me was the fear of being hurt again by your emotional connection to her.
I don’t have to repeat what we discussed but since I am writing anyway, I think that it was a beautiful discussion, one of the best we have had in years, and it would be something we can read again to remind ourselves of our commitment. We talked about how you thought that we needed to have the stereotypical Hollywood love, those ideas that came about because of my demands. How God put that PDA (public display of affection) couple in front of us to reinforce the concept of how love is of different kinds, that having that Hollywood love is not the answer to marital problems. That having an affair, or in your case, feelings for another person is more of a symptom than a cause of the destruction of a marriage. That knowing the source of conflict in our marriage is important in making it healthy.
My greatest feeling about what happened was first of all enlightenment, and a feeling of peace that flooded over me. Although the process to get to this understanding was painful, all of that pain washed away with the moment of insight.
Hoping that now that you understand what it was for me.
Love, Angel"
After that lightbulb moment, things started to change for me. I would still get moments of anger, resentment and jealousy, but gradually, they grew less and less. I know that being that jealous, angry person would make me less lovable and would make H search for "someone to be on his side " , as he says what happened to him when we were in our miserable stage.
I am now concentrating on building up my love and being a person that H would love as well, because if our love is strong, then it would guard against him having another EA, or even me as well. If we were both miserable, whats to stop us from wanting out of the M?
You are not alone, CTflor. I am guessing we all go through these stages, and no matter how other people explain it to us, we won't understand until we have our own "aha" moments. Another poster, Cyrena, who usually posts to me, went through similar experiences. I think we are all in different stages but walk through the same path.
I am so happy to hear that, CT. I do hope that you push through with Retrouvaille, as I can see that with the mindset you have (and your H too) it will resonate with you.
Angel, thanks for sharing that with me!
That was one thing the priest shared with H and I, that in hollywood everyone gets divorced and moves on to the next person, and they make it look so easy and smooth. The outward appearance of most divorces are that everyone is fine, moving along and that it's OK. That the lasting consequences aren't so bad or not taken into consideration.
I find that as each day passes since my last post, I'm starting to see that the EA was really all about how my H was feeling, and not as much to do with OW. That the EA was about how H was feeling about our marriage and our connection. I was going along thinking that everything was ok. He told me that he had been feeling very depressed and disconnected from me for many months and had felt like "this is all it will ever be", before the EA happened.
I am learning to stop focusing on OW and put the focus on our M. It's day by day but I'm not as obsessed with OW as I was. I'm starting to find that even my anger at OW is not at the level of rage as it once was.
All I can do is pray, think, pray, give it up to God as 25 mentioned.. and I think it's helping. And being able to come here. Even though I don't post as often, I do spend time reading through threads... because even the threads in the new comers section is still teaching me things about myself and my M.
An update:
H had gone to counseling a few days ago, and came home and asked me to go with him for his appt this morning. First thing I did was feel my heart drop cause I thought... ut oh, he has something to lay on me and doesn't want to tell me here. But that is not what it was. The priest just thought it would be a good idea to meet with both of us to talk about where I'm at, as it helps with H.
I did not expect things to take such an emotional turn with H. We had a very good talk... and I could see that H had formed a good friendship with the priest. They have a natural connection which is good I think. At the end of our talk, the priest began to lead a closing prayer and a blessing over our M. During this, H began to break down, I mean he really lost it and was sobbing and couldn't catch his breath. I put my hand on his arm and let him cry. He couldn't stop and I was starting to feel scared for him because it sounded like a deep pain was just emptying out of him. And after he could catch his breath he said the following:
"What was I thinking last summer? What was wrong with me? How could I do this to you, to (our d)?"
"I'm so sorry. I will never let anything come between us again."
"Why didn't I see what I was doing? I just went crazy. I was so selfish and crazy and I didn't care about who I was hurting".
He said some other things too but don't want to put it here as it's personal but he released a boat load of pain. When he calmed down, we talked awhile and he seemed to feel so much better... we had a good evening together, but before bed, he said "Do you hate me? I worry that you must hate me" and he started to get emotional again.
I told him "No I don't hate you." and he started sobbing again. And he said, "I don't want to lose you. I'm afraid one day I'm going to wake up and you're going to get fed up with me and that will be it". I hugged him tight and told him, that this was exactly how I felt last summer.... and we both actually laughed a little. I don't know why but we did.
I assured H that I want this marriage with my whole heart, and he said he did too.
So that is where we are now. He's going through some emotional things.... and although I know I can't fix it, I can listen. I just hope I handled it OK.
I know that he's 100% on board with wanting to save our M....and I am too.
The thing is, I have not been able yet to say "I forgive you". I don't know if I'm quite there yet but I think he wants to hear that.
That is so good! Your H is mature and able to face his feelings ....unburdening his baggage is key to healing!
You will forgive him soon.... keep on praying and asking God to guide you!
I want to so much. The memories of his lies, the EA, has this small grip on me. It used to have a BIG grip. I know I will get there, it's going to take me time.
He has been very emotional lately, I notice that he breaks down and cries so much more lately. This worries me some, but I have to stand back and allow him his process.
Back and forth with my emotions a bit, but they are not as intense as they were. So glad my anger is not as horrible as it was. It is a relief, as I was worried that it was not going to let up. Praying a lot.
I feel so glad that H and I can talk with each other, and we are sharing more than ever, about our feelings.
But a part of me still has that worry deep inside.
Is he really being honest? Is he playing a game? Is he with me until someone better comes along?
And the list goes on. A lot of this is my self esteem talking too.
Going to MC is turning out to be a good thing for the both of us.
We finally touched on the porn issue, and got to the bottom of it all. H told me that after our d was born, in the first few months of very very little sex, stress of a new baby, his job, etc, that he turned to porn to relax.
Then, he turned to it again last winter of 2011, and was viewing it up to his EA, through the EA, and then it stopped when everything blew up.
He told me that he felt so disconnected from me, and that not having sex enough, made him feel alone, depressed, and that he had a desire to be closer to me but didn't know how to ask for more sex without coming off as some jerk or as if he were pressuring me.
I have multiple sclerosis and I have had often had periods of time where I'm in pain in my legs, arms, and having optic neuritis and to be honest, sometimes, sex just does not happen for periods of time. The longest..... being a month.
He's totally understanding of those periods of pain .... and has been willing to wait it out for me, but, sometimes, sex is not happening when I DO feel better...
Sometimes, I just don't feel like it... due to how I'm feeling, stress, or other things taking place.
It's interesting now because .... it's out in the open and we are discovering ways and coming up with ideas to make ML more comfortable for me, when I'm in the mood, but feel inhibited by some soreness in my legs.
he is learning that it is important to come to me and tell me his needs and wants without worrying.... having some really good talks about this. Most times he's afraid of hurting me, or making my pain worse.
I'm happy that we are connecting again, and feeling each other on that deep level that has been missing for so long. It's taking some work on both of our sides, but it doesn't feel forced. It just feels natural... and I can feel his heart again.
I wake up sometimes feeling this panic that I'll lose this. I'll lose the happy time that we seem to be entering together. It scares me. I'm back and forth from feeling happy to feeling fearful and insecure.
I'm really surprised by where we are right now as a couple, because I never thought we'd be here. I'm trying to relax and allow him back into my heart. He has continued to express his strong desire to be with me, and to make things work again, and to not repeat the mistake again.
Hard to believe it completely, and hope that we will be okay.
It took an EA for us to be this close again... I don't know what to think about that.
I am so happy for you, CTflor. You seem to be more calm and peaceful now. I know your fear, I am going through the same thing. And its true, me and H go through periods where I feel really happy, and I can see he does go through those as well. Then we have times where we are more distant, then sometimes triggers come in for me and I feel angry and want to start up a fight. This morning I felt that way, but managed to stop before any harm could be done.
I am thinking that because of what we have gone through, we tend to be so observant of everything we feel. Its OK for now, as we do need to monitor to avid major breakdowns. But in the long run, we have to learn to be carefree again....
Ah Angel, having a little back slide.
WHY can't OW just be GONE from my mind? I want her gone from my thoughts! She's in a whole other country, but I feel the need to sometimes just peek in to see what she is doing. Sometimes my anger at her comes back.
Its OK, CTflor.
I am too... today is xOW's bday (call her x so that in your mind she is a part of yesterday). Although in her country, she celbrated yesterday. I couldn't help it, I have been so curious about whether H greeted her or not. But I will hold my tongue. Especially since.....
H is leaving for a business trip to her country tomorrow. He will be staying there for 4 days 9its really far, 30 hrs from the US).
At least he will be traveling with his boss. So thats good, he might not be able to get away too much. Actually, I don't even know if she is there, according to my spy she hasn't heard yet if she is there or not.
Again, I could only trust and pray. And not do anything befor ehe leaves to make our sitch bad.
So whatever I feel, even if I am seething inside, outwardly I try to be all sweetness and light.....
You're right. Time to call her Xow. I was thinking of you today and wondering how things were going for you once your H left for his trip. He should be back by now?
I've been too busy with school to worry about Xow. Had a big final this week to study for, and h really helped me out by cleaning, cooking, and taking care of D's needs for the past few days
His mood has been pretty good. The other night he was dancing in the kitchen with D, and smiling and laughing. This was the way H was before all of the summer stuff hit. It made me so happy to see him happy. He seems to have a little peace back inside of him.
I think that I'm making progress, because 2 months ago I wouldn't have been happy for his happiness. I was too angry with him back then to care about his happiness. I feel that this is changing.
Hi Ctflor, thanks for the thought! I am doing OK! To be honest, I am still distrustful, and have been snooping though (I know, I am not supposed to....) but so far, it seems like he has not seen xOW, and also,it doesn't seem like she is going to be hired back by the cpmpany in the near future.
I also tell myself though that even if he did, I will just back off and let him figure it out for himself. Cyrena told me in a previous post that in her case, it too her H 6-12 months to realy let go of xOW intellectually, even during the time that he was working for their M. They have this fantasy where they want it all - a happy M, while still holding on to the "good" memories of the EA and still not fully admitting their fault or how much they hurt. You ae lucky, actually your H seems to have come around and admitted that to himself early on, not like mine.
My H is the type who never apologizes, who is never wrong. I have to really look beyond words to know when what he is really saying to me, through his actions.
Ct, that is really nice that you are starting to value your H happiness, yu are really learniong to love, and he seems to really have a good heart....
Have you read love dare yet? I really, really advise you to do so. I thought Ioved H, but when I read that book I realized that I just "felt" that I loved him, but did not really do so, in a sense that I looked more inwardly to see how he was making me happy, rather than really caring for his happiness!
I hope you are still on track for the Retrouvaille! I will be attending the first post session as we missed that, H has already agreed that we do need to go to complete it!
I haven't read the love dare yet... we are finishing up with the five love languages. What a good book this has been.
I haven't really updated much because things are moving slowly, but in a good direction. I'm back and forth, inside some times. H is very much on board with healing our marriage and has continued his efforts, and that makes me feel happy, yet at the same time I'm still frightened that at any moment, it's all going to go away again. I find myself pulling away at times. I want to protect myself.
H wrote me a letter telling me about how he felt last summer, and what he wants now, and that he wants "forever" with me. I feel blessed, and I feel happy..... but that frightened feeling overshadows this.
You are right Angel.... I'm very lucky he woke up as quickly as he did, as I see many people who can go through this for years, or the spouse just never returns at all. I'm know I'm lucky that my H is here.
My H told me during our last MC session that what made him wake up was the night I told him to go. We were in the garage and he was being nasty to me, spewing. He told me that being married and being here was like being in prison. I told him that in prison the locks are on the outside of the door, but here, they are inside and he is welcome to go at any time, and that I would never hold him here.
He said he realized that night, after I told him to just go.... that he was faced with the idea of really doing it, of really leaving me and our D behind and he said in that moment he knew he didn't want to do that and began to work on his feelings inside and came to some realizations.
My H still refers to the time period last summer as being "his crazy time" or "I went nuts".
You know... I know that is true but I'd rather him not continue to put himself down. Does that sound crazy? lol
It's something he went through..... it was valid, it happened... and he worked through it as it was meant to be.
Jeez! Forgot to talk about another thing... going through a health scare.
After completing a round of keflex (which I've taken most of my life), I noticed 3 red bumps on the back of my leg one day. Didn't think much of them until they grew a bit bigger and became like blisters. Put some aloe on them and the next day I had more... then the next day they were on my other leg, on the back side. And they were starting to spread out and were itching!
On Sunday I got freaked out enough to go to the ER, because I looked down and saw that part of my leg was dark red on the skin. The doctor immediately said something about doing some blood work and checking my platelets. Oh, did I ever get scared. They took some vials of blood and after a couple of hours, the doctor comes back to talk to me and says my platelets were good, and that what I had was skin vasculitis, and explained what that was. He felt it could have been induced by the keflex, but they are not sure. I guess it is hard to know exactly the trigger for it. But he said he felt it was contained to my small blood vessels and skin. Sent me home with an antihistamine.
As days go by these things have not spread, but they are going through a scary progression from being small to medium, then scabbing up and looking weird. They are supposed to go away.... within weeks so I'm hoping they do and that it stays contained to the blood vessels and skin!
How are you doing, Ctflor?
That is some reaction you had! Hard to say if it was because of the meds if you have been taking it before, again, it could be a form of idiosyncratic reaction.
Retrouvaille is coming up! How are you feeling about that?
I had a serious backslide, and I have been feeling so bad about it that I have not even posted lately. I neeeded time to withdraw into myself and think and pray.
I had some good insights that I think will help other piecers, so I promise I am going to post it. Suffice for now to say that I finally am seeing that whatever may happen, I will be alright. And that piecing is not easy..... I am not even sure I still am in it!
I'm ok. Healing from the vasculitis rash, but it's taking a long time!
We are not going to make retrouvaille, because we both have too much going on right now. I'm bummed about that. But things are going along ok. We are in the middle of 5 languages and still working on our M. I'm very thankful that we are doing alright. We have had a couple arguments over our feelings about things, but we both see it as a good thing because we're clearing out old stuff we didn't know was there.
I cannot say the fears are gone, they are still there for me. I have to work at not letting fear of him leaving me, overcome me. I have to keep at my GAL and working on me. I find that my self esteem is pretty crushed.
I'd love to hear how you are doing Angel! How is it going?