You can find my backstory
Need Advice, Encouragement or Whatever What Should I Do In This Situation? Sandi2….questions Not Sure What To Make of This Uncharted Waters…Need a Paddle My wife and I have committed to work on our marriage, so I thought I should make a post in this forum. The initial post will be long, but I'll try to keep them shorter in the future.
My situation is the typical situation that you find on this board. Wife had enough, she moved out, had an affair and here we are now. The only difference is she had an A with another woman. It's all weird and convoluted. If you want more details feel free to check out my links above.
Around a month ago my wife and I started talking again. Everything was going okay, from my point of view at least. Then she told me that she didn't want to give me the wrong impression and that she has no desire to be with me. Fast forward a month and she sends me a text asking if we could talk about living together because watching the kids live in two different places is tearing her apart.
We talked about it and I told her that I can't just sell my house to move in with her. I need to know that she is committed to working on the marriage. She told me that ILYBINILWY. She followed that by saying that she was at one point and her feelings changed, so they could feel in love with me again. So, she is open to working on us. She still seems to be a bit resentful, even though she denies this. She seems to talk harshly toward me a bit. She told me that she's not meaning to, but that she is tired of trying to please everyone...she is who she is and people can accept it or reject it. I like the attitude, but I'm not so keen on the way she's talking to me. I understand she's probably still hurt and upset. So this may be something that will calm down a bit with time.
So that last two nights I have stayed at her place. It's been a bit awkward as I feel like a guest in her house and weirded out about going into her closets, room, etc. She told me there was no need for me to feel that way. I think that will go away with time too. She seems to be holding me at a distance, which again, I can understand. It took a long time for the marriage to get to the point that it's in now, so I do not expect her to jump into my arms and act like nothing happened. Our plan is to take things slow. I do not plan on moving in full time. I'll take it a day at a time and go from there. I do sleep on the couch or in my girls' room. I suppose that is to be expected as well.
I don't feel like either of us is putting our guard down. I can feel it when we talk. Last night we spoke about living in the moment and enjoying today while not worrying about the future...the whole day at a time thing. I told her that I'm not going to push a physical relationship on her...it will come in time. I don't want her to feel that pressure from me. She said that was good as it would just drive her the other way.
So, where do I go from here? I think we are both doing this for the benefit of the kids. However, I feel like I'm the only one that is really open to a relationship beyond roommates. She says she is willing to try, but I don't feel it. I'm trying to trust that she means what she says, but so much has happened it's hard to. I'm concerned that she's cake-eating at this point. However, looking at it from a different perspective, she is asking me to move in with her. She calls me now instead of text messages me. She asked me to come over for dinner the other day (before I agreed to stay) and even fixed me something different than what they were eating as she knows that I'm eating healthier. Which I never said anything to her about...I suppose the 50 pound weight loss gave it away.
Two or three months ago she was blaming me for everything, telling me that I was the most negative person ever and she can't stand to be around me. So, obviously there have been some baby steps. I guess I'm just not sure how to view all of this. There is the concern that she is going to run away again. I tell her that I'm hesitant because of this and she tells me that we shouldn't worry about the future but take it a day at a time...looking at the worst case scenario is being negative.
I don't know if I should be looking at this as piecing. Is this what piecing really is? I imagine it is a slow process as trust and hurt have played a big role in the breakup of the marriage. Are most piecing situations like this though...where both are very stand-offish? My logic tells me that it will take time and there will be baby steps that will happen that will improve our situation. I do have the tendency to put the cart before the horse. I have to admit though that I'm not to trusting of her willingness to work on the marriage, or if she's just cake-eating. She did say something that made sense last night though...she said that if she wasn't willing to work on us then she wouldn't have let me move in.
I'm scared of being hurt again and I'm feeling like I'm sticking my neck out there a lot. I don't want to end up with my head on a platter if you know what I mean.
Is this normal?
I believe so based upon my experience. I also think it is healthy to be wary.
I think you can safely call Piecing, an honest attempt at both parties to improve their relationship...so if it quacks like a duck.
David,
Piecing is going to be harder than what you just went through.
Now you get to slowly get rid of the armor you built up. You have to learn how to trust a person who has shown the capacity to rip your world apart, and betray your trust, and you have to trust them...not to do that again.
Go slow, be patient, and communicate.
One of the most beneficial things my wife and I did was have a talk that boiled down to this:
"If something is said or is done that can be taken one of two ways, lets both promise not to take it the wrong way, to talk about it. I think we can both honestly say that right now, if we wanted to hurt the other one there would be no doubt or confusion."
You're entering a land of sharp rocks, razor edges and pitfalls.
I highly recommend that you proceed slowly, and shed your walls and armor appropriately; over time.
Food for thought:
She doesn't trust you, as much as you don't trust her.
She is just as worried about this as you are.
Ultimately?
A new apartment or new house, without any old memories (down the road) will help immensely.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Things seem to be going well. Last night we went to the Opryland Hotel with the kids. It was wonderful. I'm amazed that I used to hate doing things like that. When they say you don't know what you got until it's gone...they are not joking.
We were walking and we saw a sign advertising the Rockettes christmas show. My daughter asked what the Rockettes are. My wife said that it's girls dancing around and kicking up their legs. I jokingly said, "Well, we certainly have to go now". She looked at me and said, "shut up". I took it as if she was telling me to shut up because I was talking about other girls. Maybe she meant something else, but it made me smile.
We are getting along great. Her attitude has changed and I love it. Before the split she would hold things in until she couldn't take anymore and she'd explode. Then she'd come back and say she was angry and didn't mean what she said...but, she really did. That seems to have changed. For example, we were in her car and she put in a CD of a band I don't like. I didn't say anything (I used to throw a fit about it and make her listen to something else) as this is an area I wanted to change. My D, on the other hand, yells, "Daddy hates that band". My W says, "Yeah? Well it's my car". I started cracking up to which she asked me what was so funny. I told her that I like her new attitude and honesty. She said something like I thought you hated that. I told her that I loved it...she's being honest and open with me.
I also told her that I understand the situation between us and if she needs a break then to feel free to tell me to go home. I really do understand that. My biggest worry right now is too much too soon. I'll be honest, I kind of started enjoying living alone. So, I can understand how a break would be desirable.
One big thing I'm learning is to not have any expectations as far as how they will respond. Right now, I'm doing the things that I help her feel loved. I'm still sleeping on the couch and I feel like she's keeping me at a distance from her. Except last night, I felt that wall fall and she was herself with me. This morning it was back to normal. I'm still looking at the baby steps though. I went from her not talking to me and having an affair to her asking me to live with her. We're working on our M and that's quite a bit of progress. So, I'm certainly not complaining. It's going to take awhile, but she is worth the wait.
Things seem to be going good this far. The W went to her mom's house on Saturday (which I stayed at my place) and came home Sunday. Sunday night she was supposed to go to a concert, but she didn't get tickets. She went to a friend's house around 10 pm to 2 am. I'm. It sure how I feel about this. On one hand, with the affair and all, I get a bit concerned. She stayed out like this when that was going on. Yet, I'm in bed so what should it matter how late she's out? Is staying out that late normal or does it vary from couple to couple.
I feel like she's testing me to see how I will respond. I threw a fit when the affair was happening. This time I figured i old do a 180. So I got up early, asked her if she had fun. When she jumped in the shower I went and got some coffee and food from McD's for her. My hope is that as I respond better she will see the new me. When she sees this then she will respond accordingly and will not want to go out like that. Plus, she may need a break as I'm sure me moving in is quite an adjustment and very emotionally exhausting. She's not sure what to expect. She's putting her head on the line just as much as I am.
She is starting to use the word "we" when referring to the future. Right now we haven't talked about much after Christmas...but, she's saying it and that is a good sign. To ugly we are decorating the Christmas tree and making ornaments with our kids. First time we've done that. I used to hate doing stuff like that, but after she left I starts realizing what is important in life...now they are the best times of my life. I'm grateful to be getto g another chance at this.
I would like to get some opinions on the staying out until 2 am bit. Right now I don't feel like I should say anything...maybe with time, but now is not the time to start pointing out things I dislike. On the other hand, it does make me nervous and I wish she'd be more sensitive to my needs. I don't want to do too much too soon. I do thi I she is testing me though.
Have a great day.
Have the two of you discussed counseling? Not many people in piecing make it without some kind of guidance.
Should I be bringing that up now? I really dont want to put too much pressure on her right off the bat. If you think I should then I'm all for it.
Give it a week or so, but don't wait too long. You could always say that you have some things that you are working out and would like her help to get you through some things. Flip it around so it sounds like you are the one who is getting help.
Her having the fling with another woman is a big flag that she needs to get through her issues. Sweeping them under the rug isn't fair to you. In fact, if she is unwilling to go in because it's something that's important to you, then she's not all in to the piecing.
I agree with Bond, maybe not the 2 weeks part of it, I'm more inclinded to play the time line by ear...as long as it happens.
He is right about it being piecing if she is willing to go.
If not, am I wrong to quit staying there? I want a wife not a roommate.
It's little things that I'm noticing...like i bought her a cd and she didn't even acknowledge I got it for her. That's just one example. I'm not
Expecting anything in return, but a thanks would be nice. It bugs me she's not wearing her rings too. Am I just being too picky?
Just asked...she's willing to go to MC...and she pawned her rings when she first left. I guess that answers that.
First off, slow down. You are acting so anxious that you will kill your chances for a R. Do you want to stay married? Then get rid of your "expectations".
"I'm not Expecting anything in return, but a thanks would be nice."
Even a "thanks" is expecting something. Stop it. If something like a little "thanks" bugs you, how do you expect to handle the larger issues. Time and patience. I think I did say a week or two before you ask. You're jumping the gun. If you push it too soon before YOU are ready, you will push her right out the door.
Someone once said that it takes one month of marriage work for every year you're married for successful piecing. By showing her you're impatient and anxious, it shows that you're insecure still. What woman would want to be around that?
True, true, true. Thanks MrBond....You're the voice of reason as always.
Journaling....
Things seem to be going good with me and my W. She seems to be committed to working on the marriage and I can see some positive baby steps happening.
There is one thing that concerns me though...she doesn't have any desire for romance or anything of the sort. No touching...nothing. I'm not putting any pressure on her at all about it. Last night she brought up the fact that things are going good, but she's not willing to jump in the sack right now. I calmly told her that I wasn't asking her to. I asked her if it was me...she said whe didn't know, but she doesn't feel attracted to me and hasnt for a long time.
Then i told her that anyone that would be expecting to jump back in where we left off would be an idiot. I proceeded to tell her that it has only been 2.5 weeks since we got back together. There is still a lot of broken trust and pain that we have to sift through. I explained that it would be easier for me to jump back into things because I didn't leave...yet, she was hurt so badly that she did leave so it would be harder for her to jump into things. I tried to reassure her that this stuff takes time.
Okay, it bothers me that she's not attracted to me. My logic is telling me that she is still unable to let her guard down fully. As it has been said a million times...one month for every year married is the general guideline. We have 12 years under our belt...2.5 weeks is nothing.
She also told me a week ago that the OW "ruined" her as far as romance, italy and physical touch is concerned...I imagine that experience did a number on her head, especially since the OW completely cut her off afterward. Then there's the whole thing with the OW's husband sticking his head in the shower while she was showering...then later on grabbing her in places she will not tell me trying to have sex with her. To me that is assault. Who wouldn't have issues.
Then there is the issue of me looking at porn. She said she was fine with it because she had such a low libido, but she recently told me that it really hurt her.
If she was attracted to me once, then she could be again. In fact, she told me that she wasn't even attracted to the OW, but She got caught up in the OW telling her how wonderful she was.
The non-logic side of me is saying that's want a wife who is attracted to me. Someone that will accept a the wonderful things that I say about her. I'm concerned she may never find me attractive and getting hurt a second time will be harder than the first.
I did try something a little different this time around. Instead of getting angry about the situation; I got her a thank you card and wrote how had I see her working on our marriage and I just wanted her to know that it means a lot to me. The card was neutral...nothing romantic and I made certain that it nor I said anything about love.
After she read the card she came in to the room I was in, thanked me and gave me a hug. A HUG!!! I was so excited. I got a hug from the woman who, a little more than a month ago, told me she had no desire to be with me. I know she's working on our marriage for the kids' sake...but that is improvement. I'm also sleeping in the same bed as her.
So, I think I should stick with logic and ignore my worries and concerns. If I continue to do want I'm doing she will see a confident man. If I get upset and throw a fit she'll see an insecure boy. I just needed to type it out I guess. Of course any comments or advice is welcome.
How do you tell if she's taking it slow or is cake eating? I've been living with her for almost four weeks now. I initially told her that I'm not going into a situation where we are roommates, but a married couple. I know there have been some positive baby steps, I'm not complaining. However, i am reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and it talks about voicing you needs and feelings.
So is telling her that I want more physical touch going too fast? I'm not talking sex, but holding hands, etc. It does feel like a roommate situation sometimes. My post a above mentioned that she doesn't feel attracted to me. So, should I just take it day by day, or voice my concerns? I would rather not push her and have a marriage instead of getting physical touch and it falls apart,
Can that attraction come back?
Funny that I was reading up on your sitch/piecing earlier this afternoon and then you post an update.
Although I'm no where near where you are and may never get there, I do think that you need to take this thing very, very slow. Your W has come back to the R after vowing to leave the M. you need to give her ample time to get her groove back and you need to get your groove back as well. How are those 180's. You've got to keep them going. Don't fall back into old habits; there is danger there!!
Perhaps, you should be working on making sure that you are only doing those things that work and avoiding the things that don't. The same with your W. Do you have these types of conversations?
Did you find your way into MC yet? I think you said previously that your W was open to it. So where is that?
One of the other posters mentioned a program called Retrovaille that was instrumental in helping rebuild their M. Have you looked into this?. Is this something your W would be interested in?
From what I've read, piecing is a very slow and laborious process. Brick, by brick. Take it slow and work on your communication.
I really need some help here. I've been living with the W for the last 4 weeks. I found out that she posted something on Craigslist that stated how she was not attracted to me and wanted a guy to talk to. Then I found out she's been emailing guys back and forth nude photos and talking dirty...very dirty...to them. She claims to have never met them, and I tend to believe her.
We talked about it and she said she doesn't have any attraction towards me at all. In fact, she says she was when were dating and lost it soon after we married. She never liked having sex with me, now that she has had an affair (multiple which I found out about too), she likes sex but doesnt want to have it with me.
Here's the kicker. She doesn't want the kids to live without both of us. So, she says she is willing to stop doing the emailing stuff, stop dating, go to counseling, and give our marriage an honest shot. Mainly for the kids' sake.
I really do not know what to do. Here I've been thinking that we were working on us and she is sending and receiving naked photos of herself. Why is she willing to work on us now? Because of the kids? Because I caught her? Why should I believe her?
Give it to me straight. Is there any point in going to counseling? I'm really tired of this whole thing. I told her that If she doesn't want to be with me, then let me go. Can attraction really come back? Her actions a couple days ago are unacceptable. I really want to believe that we can make this work out, but I fear she's just delaying the inevitable.
My girls are so excited to live with both of us again...I can't break their hearts again. If I didn't have them, I would just say F this and leave. I know she loves her kids and will do anything for them. Which is why I believe she is serious about counseling. My kids are caught in the middle and I dont want to jerk them around.
I really need some advice here...thanks.
All I can offer is, if she says she is willing to go to counseling and give the M a shot, are you prepared to NOT take that risk?
Only she knows if she is serious and committed to working on things and she will either tell you the truth, or she will lie, if asked.
And I can only add that if you choose to carry forward and go to counseling, you go in with no expectations... either way...
Oh, and perhaps try routrevaille (sp?) if she is willing.
Oh, and perhaps try routrevaille (sp?) if she is willing.
Yes, she is willing to go. However, it's not until March.
She tells me that she loves me, but is not attracted to me. Is that a mental thing right now because of the miserable marriage? I have gained a lot of weight...I got up to 334 pounds and I'm 6'. I've lost quite a bit since I'm now down to 264 pounds. I don't mind losing the weight....I want to. Will losing it make a difference though? What about when I'm 50 and I get wrinkles and gray hair?
Then, if she's not attracted to me, why would she be willing to go to get counseling and work all this stuff out for the kids' sake?
I'm lost....I think the mixed messages indicate she may be too.
Okay, so I decide to stay. What is my next step? I don't trust her anymore. I'm paranoid. I wonder if my heart can take anyore.
I feel like I should know these answers, but I'm caught up in the whirlwind of it all that I cannot seem to get a clear view.
I don't know piecing, but I do know people.
Outside of resistant responses, people are very capable of loving someone but not being "attracted" to them. It could be any number of things.
Is it "a mental thing?" Well, technically yes. And I'm assuming she means "not physically attracted and not interested in physical intimacy."
That doesn't mean she can't be, just like she was at one time.
She may or may not be able (or willing) to tell you why, right now. But building up the connectedness between the two of you will help, no matter what the reason.
If you feel it's your weight, then do something about reducing your weight. Not because it will help her be attractive to you, but what that (sounds like it) will likely do, is make YOU feel more attractive. The more confident and attractive we feel, the more others find us confident and attractive.
And worry about now, the future is when you worry about that.
If it takes 'til March to go to retrouvaille, then set the appointment and do the standard, M friendly counseling at this time and continue to work on you and rebuilding the intellectual connectedness.
Trust will take time to build. That's in you, although you can enlist your W to help you with that. If you feel you are able to be more open and honest with your W, then let her know that you are having trouble with trust right now and discuss ways in which she can help you build that trust back up.
If she's really committed, then she might help you. If she's still on the fence, she may not want to. She may care that you don't trust her, but she just may not be willing to help out at this time. In the end, it is still about you and figuring out how you CAN trust her, again.
Not really helpful, but whether we know someone and their history or not, it is always up to us to how much we expose your vulnerable underbelly to them and TRUST... Do it at whatever pace you are comfortable with. You have time, and your W is suggesting she's in no rush out the door. Rather, she's telling you she's willing to work on it.
That's my 2 cents. Good luck.
That doesn't mean she can't be, just like she was at one time.
I mentioned something about this before. She responded by saying that she wasn't really attracted to me right after we got married. Sh said she didn't know what attraction was back then.
Truth be told, I think something clicked in her head when she had the lesbian affair. Then she was with a man afterward. Now she's all into sex. She has always hated it before. We didn't have sex before we were married (religious beliefs) and very little after marriage. In fact, we didn't have sex until a week after we were married.
I think she's all excited about these new feelings and this discovery of her sexual side. I never had a chance because she didn't discover this unit after we were separated. So I tend to think all of this attractive stuff is part of her confusion. Yet, again, I'm confused.
Has anyone heard of the Save My Marriage program? If you never heard of it, then you can check it out on the web. I'm not sure if I can post a link, but to be safe I won't. I'll just tell you to combine the words in Save My Marriage into one long word and then add the traditional dot com.
One last thing....I have been a huge pushover in our marriage. I am reading a book titled "No More Mr Nice Guy" and realized how weak of a man I was. I'm really serious about this being our last chance with this marriage. I am willing to take the time and work necessary to work it out. However, I'm not willing to deal with the cheating and other BS.
I received some advice from my personal counselor. She stated that I should file for divorce. We can always call it off. I am starting to agree with her. If it's going to be this way, then I want out. This would get the ball rolling and hopefully she will realize I'm not always going to be here....because I'm not. If it works out, we will call it off. If it doesn't then we sign the papers and be done with it. Should I do this or approach her about this? I think she feels that I'm going to be here no matter what and that I'll bend over backwards to please her. That's not the case anymore.
Opinions?
Honestly, I don't know what to say about her suggesting she wasn't attracted to you sexually, even in the past. I'm sure she believes it. It's her truth.
Personally, I do agree that a woman's opinion in this will be helpful. I've read some stuff here that women find attractive in a man. I guess anything is worth a try.
And as far as being a pushover, fair enough. I have heard that can be unattractive, although I also understand that the opposite isn't necessarily attractive, either.
For nothing else, if your W is willing to share what she finds attractive, it would be helpful. Because no matter what anyone else's opinion is, it is HER that you'd be hoping to attract.
In regards to your counselor's suggestion to file. IDK. I know you know better than to use it as a tactic. That is LRT and it really is for you, that you really want to get on with your life and if your W changes her mind... well, deal with that IF it happens...
It sounds like a tough spot, and yet it's really only as tough as we make it out to be... Just my opinion that if your are trying to work it out AND have filed D... in some ways that's a little indecisive. It may come across to your W that way, as well... she'd know she has "the power" over you because you're waiting for her to change her mind.
*shrug*
The thing is that I'm so sick of the lies that I want a divorce. I want to be done with it all. I know that I am feeling this way purely out of emotions. I just feel like I owe it to my kids. I don't even like this woman much anymore...I love her, but I don't like her. I feel rage and hurt. I'm hoping all of this will change, but it's not looking so good. I'm tired of the pain, I'm tired of being told that I'm not attractive, I'm tired of not being able to trust someone, I'm tired of being told that they desire sex, but not with me.
My thinking with the divorce is that either we work it out or I'm done. It's not a tactic. I just want to move on with my life with or without her.
I hate to give you the canned answer, yet I want to respond and tell you I completely understand.
So here's the canned answer, "only you know when you are done."
My only thought on that is, when you are really done, you'll know... and you will do what you need to... it's tough to cross that line...
I have not been where you are, but I'm very comfortable in my current direction.
okay...where is MrBond at? I need him to knock some sense into me. I'm paranoid. My W says that I have been grilling her about everything. I tried to explain to her that I just found out a lot of information I didn't know about and that it's a lot to process. I told her that I'm fearful because I know this is our last chance for us. I don't want to split because of the kids....but I will. She said she wants to work on it, but she doesn't. She doesn't because of the attraction issue. She does for the kids.
I feel like she's lying to me about stopping the texts and emails. In fact, I will bet you money that she is. I asked her to reply to the texts and emails to tell them to stop contacting her. I explained it's important to me to do this. All of this stuff needs to stop. I don't want a roommate, I don't want to be friends. I want a wife. If she can't do that then she needs to let me know so I can move on. I don't think the kids need to see a dad that's miserable...or parents that just exist with each other. I have friends that had parents do that and they just wished they divorced. The kids need to see how a healthy relationship functions. How to solve problems.
I know I seem to be pushing...but I need to know if there's a chance for us. I can't deal with this pain anymore. Enough is enough and I need to know either way. If her heart is not in it then forget it.
That's how I feel at least....Now smack me around and tell me how I'm wrong. While you're at it, will you tell me what to do?
David, I appologize, but I'm going to have to defer to Bond, Cadet, or anyone else who can come along and help you.
While I've had a chance to be around and talk to people over X-mas eve and Christmas day... I'm struggling, to some degree...
I think I'm going to have to bow out from posting here for a while.
The reality is, from what you have written, I'd have to say it doesn't sound to me like you're piecing, now. Even though your W is saying she wants to work it out. If I was in your shoes, I'd turn and walk...
But that's me... and I worry that my responses now, especially in your sitch which could very well work out, might steer you wrong.
I wish you the best and at this point I'd say "Don't give up, hold on the D, and work through this. Give it one more, real hard shot, even if you are questioning your W's intention, commitment, and words."
But that's all I've got...
I wish you the best...
Thank you KD. I posted a lot of stuff out of anger and hurt. I really want the M to work out. Sometimes D seems easier. I just feel so hurt, betrayed, humiliated. I'm full of emotions, so for now, I do nothing.
This is a good place to vent, work out those feelings....yeah "THOSE" feelings and get some good support.
We all want our M to work out, right? I DO believe that D would be easier. You could just cut your loses, move on and hope you don't have to do it again.
Surviving the A and its ending was easy compared to piecing where you really have to make changes.
Sounds like she's in a spin cycle.
This is a good place to vent, work out those feelings....yeah "THOSE" feelings and get some good support.
We all want our M to work out, right? I DO believe that D would be easier. You could just cut your loses, move on and hope you don't have to do it again.
Surviving the A and its ending was easy compared to piecing where you really have to make changes.
Sounds like she's in a spin cycle.
Oh god, it's gets harder? What do you mean by her being in a spin cycle?
i came upon your post because i was doing a search for retrouvaille! i'm so sorry you find yourself here but it really is such a great place to find support isn't it?
your story struck a cord with me because there are many similarities between your story and mine. although my H has not agreed to work things out.. yet.. he has agreed to retrouvaille (which isn't until april). his decision could change between now and then but at least there is something to look forward to with a little.. hope? in the meantime, i'm trying to figure out the best way to proceed. which is probably with caution.
"My thinking with the divorce is that either we work it out or I'm done. It's not a tactic. I just want to move on with my life with or without her."
i feel this way all the time and unfortunately, when i am in that mind state, i am looking for an answer and try to push and force the issue even though i know that we both need time to heal. so what ends up happening? everything gets very heated.. i try to pressure him to answer by forcing his hand.. and then we all end up losing. because i have noticed that i tend to back people in a corner. then my H answers one way (usually, i don't think there's any hope. things won't chance.. blah blah..) but then he says stuff the next minute that makes me think there are glimmers of hope.
i guess what i'm saying is.. it's hard to take a step back but so important to do. because sometimes, we just end up saying stuff that we don't really mean.
hang in there!
Came I half way, I too had a similar sitch where W came back but said she was not attracted.
All I can say is it's going to be hard if you stay.
This is the approach I took:
1. I have been a push over, this is not attractive. Will stand up for myself.
2. Men that demand respect are attractive.
3. Sometimes unattractive is code word for boring, GAL.
4. Sometimes it's code for taken for granted. Find a rather innocent way of reminding W that other women may find you attractive.
5. People want what they can't have, make yourself a little less available.
6. "women don't like manly brutes" total NG lie, get in touch with your inner man, become rough and tough.
A wise and self aware woman told me this:
"women are attracted to men that can stand up to them, because it means they will stand up for them".
Don't know your whole story, but this attitudinal shift really helped me. The stuff in NMMNG is good stuff, use as much as you can.
Ok just caught up, sorry for not jumping in earlier you are where I was 4-6 months ago. My W too found me unattractive after lusting after women for so long.
I think you need to draw the line on her cheating. Tell her you are glad that she is willing to get help, but unless she is willing to stop this cheating non-sense then she needs to move on.
Right now like you said she is confused, she wants to explore her sexuality, she wants to feel excitement.
Unfortunately she has a lot of built up resentment against you, she probably has very little respect for you, and doesn't value you. It [censored] I know personally.
Right now every one of those men and women are more valueble to her than you.
You don't have to start with an ultimatum, but I think you should start by being radically honest. Be true to your feelings and let her now what you like, what you can tolerate and what you won't. Value yourself and your feelings first.
Also keep in mind that your W is very confused right now. She has no idea why everyone else is so darn attractive but you're not. All I can say is that it's most likely not you, but some issue she is struggling with.
You suspect that her affair opened up something in her, and you're probably right. Sex with someone you love requires a whole lot of vulnerability. Sex with a stranger, who will probably remain a stranger can be easier for someone dealing with issues since they don't have to fully reveal themselves. Any vulnerability accidentally revealed, can be ignored since it is not a real relationship.
That being said if you intend on making this work, you need to find what her love languages are and provide love. If she feels loved and cherished like OW made her feel, she'll be less likely to risk losing you on a silly online flirting session.
I'll post more later
Thanks...that really helps. Please keep posting more. I will ask questions when I have more time to post.
You mentioned I'm at where you were 4-6 months ago. How are things now?
Things are better... Much better
We are closer than we have ever been, there is definitely more mutual respect, and we lovingly cuddle every night.
Of course not everything is perfect. Sex while increasingly frequent is still not to the way it used to be years ago.
I imagine your W may be going through something similar, but I can tell mine wonders why the crazy desire is not there.
I'm sure orientation issues are also wreaking havoc, I bet she does love you, but can't understand why everybody else is so much more interesting.
I think you'll find that as your marriage stabilizes you will find yourself in a sex starved marriage.
The issue I think is intimacy.
In order to be intimate it requires a great deal of trust and self awareness.
I believe it was Schnarch who termed the 6 levels of sex.
Level 1 is sex abuse, one uses the other. One is hurt, and the other does not gain any emotional happiness.
Level 2 is no strings attached sex. Both partners enjoy the physical aspect but get nothing out of it emotionally. Most one night stands fall here. It can be exciting and fun, but in the long run leaves you feeling empty.
I think your wife may be here since this is the stage that requires the least vulnerability.
Feelings of love and caring are absent. Iif a marriage only gets level 2 sex, it will eventually feel monotonous and mechanical. A possible explanation why she doesn't find you attractive. In other words it gets old.
Novelty is needed in order to keep the flames going if you are stuck at this level. "Novelty" often translates into other people.
Ok so where does this leave me? We're trying to move past level 2.
All I can say for now is that it's a lot of hard work.
Thank you for your response. It gives me hope. We spoke about it last night and we are both willing to give 100% to make it work. She agreed to stop the affair stuff. I'm hesitant to believe her, but trust has been broken and I have decided to give her the benefit of the doubt. Rebuilding trust has to start somewhere.
Our sex life never has really got off the ground. Due to religious commitments we dated four years and did not have sex until we were married....a week after we were married to be more precise. She grew up thinking sex is a dirty word and never really got over that...until recently. We've tried things. She has put in a lot of effort, but I don't think she ever thought it was okay to have sex...like it was bad. I've tried to spice things up and she hasn't really been responsive. So, I gave up trying. We never did foreplay...never. Sexually, I have been miserable.
A lady named Alisa Bowman wrote a book called, "Project Happily Ever After". She has a website with the same name. Basically, she was so miserable that she literally hoped her husband would die. Someone wrote in and asked her about what she should do because she doesn't want to touch her husband, is not attracted and she didn't feel connected. But, she is extremely attracted to someone else. Her husband is a good man, which are hard to find. What can she do.
Mrs. Bowman replied and said, "i would have rather had all of my toenails extracted than to have sex with my Husband. Now I look forward to it." She then pointed out that no relationship is perfect. One man can be a great lover, but not a great conversationalist. Another may be a great provider, but a terrible lover. Few if any people have every single quality we desire in a mate. She needs to allow herself to accept this fact. When she does she'll have a much easier time seeing shortcoming in marriage as problems that can be solved over time. Mrs. Bowman than said, "Rather than seeing your lack of attraction to your husband as a fatal flaw -one that can only be solved by either replacing him or cheating on him- you'll look into ways to build a healthy attraction."
She recommended that the lady with the question do a few things.
1. Tell her husband that her desire has waned over the years. She should be honest and tell her husband about her weakness for other men. Ask him to fall back in love with her.
2.Start having sex on a regular basis, even if she doesn't want to do it. Sex helps build a connection that will turn into a healthy attraction over time.
3. Deal with any turn offs...if he has poor hygiene, or whatever, tell him.
4. Teach him how to romance her
5. Teach him how to please to please her in bed.
6. Touch often...really simple things keep a marriage going...hugging before going leaving the house and coming home, sit closely on the couch, hold hands, etc.
7. Be transparent...allow him to know the real her and vice versa. The more you get to know each other on a deeper level, the more attraction will grow.
8. Put on blinders...It's normal to feel attracted to other people, but she's married. She can look, but she can't touch. She needs to practice self-control and learn how to release her attachment to wanting it all. Learn how to be happy with the wonderful man you already have.
Mrs. Bowman never mentions anything about her husband and her having marital problems, but I imagine they had to if she was wanting him to die and not wanting to even touch him. I purchased her book, so I will be able to read more about their relationship later.
My question is if you think I should show my wife this site? I'm a bit leery about having sex myself...I don't know if all I'll be able to think about is the other guy. Maybe not. So, what do you think? As I'm sure you feel, I would like to have sex with her, but.... Do you think something like this would chase my wife away? I know she's willing to do anything to make this work...well, I'm trying to believe that anyway...she says she is.
I don't want her to think that I'm showing it to her just to get laid. If I showed her this, I think it would be best to tell her about my apprehension of physical contact.
Overall, what are your opinions on this?
BTW, her orientation is straightened out. She likes men and it was a one time thing with the OW.
Wow! That was a long post. I should have broken it up. Sorry. Thanks for reading through it though.
Hi David
I've just read through your thread. I'm sorry you find yourself going through this difficult situation. You've been given some good advice on your thread, although it's very subtle.
I'm going to be very blunt, because these issues are rarely discussed, but they are very important in marriages.
You've mentioned that you
[/list] were both sexually inexperienced when you were married
dated for a long time before becoming intimate
rarely enjoyed foreplay with each other
she "did a lot of work" to get over the sexual issues (although if you guys never engaged in foreplay with each other, I'm wondering what exactly she was able to do)
she had a lesbian affair; and then
she had a male lover
Your wife's sexuality has been terribly neglected and her background has given her mixed messages about the value of it. The authentic woman who is your wife, the spirit of the woman, knows that there is a big part of life she's missing out on here and she's going to keep looking until it is fulfilled. Because DAvid, sex, good sex, sex beyond Schnarch's level 2, is the only glue that can keep a couple in love and happy for their entire adult lives.
David - this is not your wife's problem. This is your problem. You need to improve your sexual skills and confidence.
If you are reading No more Mr Nice guy you'll be starting to understand how women need men who are strong and who are prepared to lead. That is particularly true in bed. In my experience, a woman becomes an open and willing sexual partner, when her husband/lover lovingly but firmly encourages her to accept the gift of pleasure that he can give her. And then he must get serious about the giving of pleasure part. He needs to show her how desirable she is, how horney she makes him, how much he wants to give her pleasure. He has to lead an activity in their marriage which takes time and communication and laughter and a commitment to love and pleasure.
I recognise this issue because I've lived it. I married a man 16 years older than me when I was 24. I wasn't very experienced and he'd been married since before the full educative effects of the 70s sexual revolution had a chance to permeate his cohort ... so we had regular sex - at least once or twice a week after the first 5 years or so right up until we separated ... and we both always orgasmed ... but I can honestly say that in the entire 12 years we were together we never had a sex session that went longer than 5 minutes. It was quick, it was cursory, it was always in the morning ... and it was an add-on to our relationship - certainly not the glue that kept us a unique and committed couple.
That wasn't the reason I left, but I now understand I fell out of love with him because we had spent our entire relationship at that Schnarch Level 2. It was boring and I might as well have been bopping the milk-man.
Since I've been divorced, I've had relationships with men who know what they are doing in bed. Oh la la!!!
Those experiences have taught me about my sexuality and my femininity. They have empowered me to be a sincere and genuine intimate partner ... they've helped me to understand the power of two compatible people, living their lives as an economic and social team, who also have THAT magic ... goodness me ... no wonder some married couples look so happy. They are living the dream!!!!
David get yourself some liturature on becoming a better lover. Learn the skills to pleasure your wife and then work on your confidence to be able to do it in a sensual and loving way (I know at first it's going to seem awkward). Make her pleasure and showing her how much you love her your priority .....
She might be happy to put-up-with-it for the time being, but her sexual maturity is a time-bomb that's not going to go away unless it's satisfied.
Blessings. V
That's where I'm confused. There so many things I want to do for her: like the dirty talk she has with the other men...how would she react to that? Is it weird if I start doing it? If she's not attracted to me would this turn her off more?
I've wanted nothing more than to please her. I've been doing research for years on how to please her. I've watched numerous videos on cunnilingus, foreplay, positions. Not to mention the books I've read on the same subjects. She never has allowed me to do these things for or to her. I want passion, foreplay, spontaneity, kissing, touching, sharing moments where nothing else matters but her and I sharing ourselves fully with each other. Where two seem to be one. Those love novels women read....that is what I want. I think foreplay involves more than touching. I want it to start early in the morning and build throughout th day until she can't wait to get home. I want her to know that she is the most wonderful, beautiful, special woman in the world to me. I want to hold her in my arms after and cuddle. I want it to be special and not just a thing to get me off. I would rather do it less and do it right when we do. I feel like I've tried...really tried. I've tried spicing things up with games, movies, toys, costumes, handcuffs, blindfolds, you name it.
I don't mean to sound graphic, but I have wanted this since day one. I finally just gave up. Admittedly, I've had my problems. I certain my need to work on confidence. I could lose weight (84 pounds so far). I'm far from perfect.
So what do you think? Should I start trying to seduce her, or give her space? She seems to like dirty talk...at least with the other guys...do I start that? What about sending her pictures? Should I do what I want as far as seducing her from the moment she wakes up? I want to tell her who gorgeous she is...not just physically, but all the internal stuff too....her personality, talents...the little things that no one else sees that mean so much to me.
What do I do?
If anyone has any suggested reading materials or advice on being a better lover...please let me know. Whatever it is I'm doing wrong, I want to fix it. I working on the confidence stuff.
Your wife said she is willing to work, that is a definite plus.
How much work, and in what way is still up in the air. Like you said dropping these types of articles on her lap might make her think you are trying to pressure her.
Now if you could find a Counselor that believed in this, then that'd probably work really well for you.
For me I found that as time progressed the advice from DB became less useful and the advice from SSM became more relevant.
Read bagheera's thread on that side of the forum it is really good.
For now I'll say that it is important to make sure she starts feeling loved. Take care of yourself and become a better husband. You're going to have to be patient about the sex part.
As for her chatting with other men online, it's like with OW she wants the attention.
How is your W's self esteem?
When you compliment her does she reject the nice words?
Sometimes in marriages a spouse suffering from poor self esteem may feel that their partner only compliments them because they have to since they can only have sex with them, or because they are looking to get laid.
They feel that if their partner was a total stranger they wouldn't be attracted. Thus they seek out the attention of strangers in an attempt to get an "honest" assessment. (let's be honest though the average guy looking for a quick lay is probably 1000 times more dishonest than someone who truly loves their partner).
As you know this can be dangerous since that validation can quickly become addictive. (that's why predators always swoop in on girls with low self esteem).
So it's a good thing she has vowed to stop. Just don't be surprised if she does it again, it can be addictive. The more she feels loved and validated by you the more likely she won't go back.
Hope that helps.
Ok technique wise, that stuff is good, but it goes beyond that.
You have to seduce her. Unfortunately you are boring old David. Not to be mean, but you might as well be her brother. In the other men she sees sexy strangers, she sees your dirty socks everyday.
Don't compare yourself to these men, because that's a level 2 attraction, and you'll never have that ever again.
One of these men could buy her dinner, and take her dancing and she'd be swooning. You could do the same and her first reponse might be, "oh he wants to get laid again".
Of course we both know that in both cases both you and the other guy both want to get laid. Yet you love her, the other guy just wants a quick screw. Maddeningly enough she'd probably rather have the other guy.
I don't say all this to anger you, it's to drive the point home that using the same strategies other guys may use on your wife will only not work, but may backfire.
Instead you need to play on a whole different level.
You can't use novelty to turn her on, not at this point at least. You need to have her desiring more than level 2.
She needs to feel so in love, that she is dying to express it in every way possible to include with her body.
Ever feel so in love that you want to do anything to make your partner feel what you feel? To include a good romp in the sack?
Well that's what you need to be going for. Technique and stuff is great, but it's a little like putting the cart before the horse, or however that saying goes.
I recommend the 5 love languages, and passionate marriage, both very good books.
I've read the five love languages. I'll read the other. Her languages are acts of service and praise. I do those and it seems like she takes advantage of it all.
Her view is that I am a weak little man that will do anything to keep her happy. She thinks I'm afraid of losing her and I will always be there no matter what. In fact, I told her that I would wait on the sex thing...then I did the acts of service and praise. Three weeks later she was online and super adament that I am unattractive.
I really think she wants a guy that is going to come in and take control. She only responded to me sexually when I took her and had my way with her...I was rougher than usual. I did what I wanted to her.
Bottom line is that I think the acts of service stuff doesn't work right now.
Also, the more I think of having sex with her the more I do not want to. Thinking about the other guy and such turns me off completely. Even I she offered, I'd probably turn her down.
In second thought, maybe it's my attitude behind the acts of service. Doing it with confidence rather than soon it in hope she'll notice. That makes sense.
It's because you are doing AOS in the hopes of getting laid. It's a stealth contract and she sees right through it.
It's hard to show love when the other person does not.
How about respect, does she show you respect in day to day things? Does she respect your opinions, your profession, your hobbies? Does she admire you, or does she take you for granted?
Are your AOS the actions of a frustrated little boy looking for a lay, or are they the welcome advances of an admirable man who would make any woman swoon.
I'm going to be a little self centered for a moment here, and say that I'm quite a catch. Good looks, amazing job, good physique, and loving and caring.
I didn't have to just say it, but start believing it. To the point that every time W would not appreciate one of those qualities I had to set the record straight and remind her. Eventually her level of respect for me grew, along with reducing her taking me for granted.
As I felt respected by the woman I love, I began to feel more loving, and we have been building from there since. Slow but steady.
Start small, if work went well and you did well tell her. If she brushes it off emphasize to her how that makes you a top performer or whatever. Don't be afraid to sell yourself.
Great posts Greenblue ... I haven't read your sitch, but you are obviously doing the work. Impressive.
David - read everything Greenblue said ... and then read it again.
Greenblue is absolutely right in that you can't start at the technique end. You need to rebuild an emotional connection and let that intimacy lead you to the sexualisation, of your marriage. That is really hard work under any circumstances and in the entire time I've been here and reading on the SSM board I've only read one person who's actually turned their SSM around and is more deeply in love with his wife than ever with an intimate and satisfying sex life with his wife ... after 30 odd years of marriage. It's important to remember though with his case, that his marriage wasn't in crisis. He had made a decision that he may make some alternative arrangements for his life if things didn't change - but he did the work - and his wife did what was hard painful work with him -after she understood the issue was so important to him that it was threatening their marriage. You should read his thread, he posts in SSM under the name Young at Heart.
I think it's important to make a point here, that if we are being realistic, the timing for you to do ANYTHING for your wife is not good. I note this post is in Piecing - but it's not clear to me that your wife is emotionally engaged in your marriage.
My advice to you is that you need to get back to some pretty strict DBing, focus on you and your children, live your life as though it doesn't matter what she decides to do, because you are going to be OK anyway. Man up on the other stuff. Finish reading No More Mr Nice Guy and really internalise that stuff.
You've talked about some of the things you'd like to improve about yourself (health and body), think about what else you have in your life that gives you pleasure. Reengage in hobbies. Renew friendships and relationships with family, friends, community groups .... GAL your heart out ... because you have to make yourself desirable to your wife - and the only way you are going to do that is by being the best YOU, you can be.
MWD talks about sex while DBing and she says (from memory) that if sex is something that is going to bring you closer together - than you might consider it. As you've already identified, where there is infidelity, that's a whole other level of complexity and you really need to think about your boundaries.
A tip ... if I may .... you said
I really think she wants a guy that is going to come in and take control. She only responded to me sexually when I took her and had my way with her...I was rougher than usual. I did what I wanted to her.
... well ... do what works my friend.
I could go into why this works, and if you're interested I will (when I get some time
, but trust me .. most women want to be
taken by their men. She wants you to be the leader and she wants you to lead and she wants you to lead strongly. There are degrees of the extend to which particular women want it - some want to be completely dominated, and that's the only way they can respond - others, most I suspect, need the man to lead the sexuality in a dominant and loving way, until she feels safe enough so that you guys can have the fun and intimate conversations about why you respond the way you do to different foreplay/ideas/stimulations etc .. and you can experiment with swapping it up so that sometimes you lead, sometimes she does.
Lots of issues in there ....
Hang in there David. This is tough stuff.
You put your focus on you. Read the Forums, GAL, look after yourself. Live your life ... if your wife wants to come along ... she'll follow.
V
This is great stuff. Keep it coming. I'm out of town for the nec couple days, but I'll be asking questions when I get back.
Good luck David, I'm in the same boat except my wife didn't have an affair but we are trying to rebuild the relationship and going to marriage counseling. I know it will take time but I'm willing to not give up.
Things are going really good...more details later.
Shaky...hang in there. It's rough, but it's worth it. We've got your back. Let me know how it's going for you.
Hey David can I stop holding my breath now?
How are things going David?
Things are going very, very bad. It's been one major blow after another.
As you know, I moved into her place the beginning of December. I thought everything was going okay until a week or two before christmas. I found out that she posted an ad on craigslist stating she wasn't attracted to me and she wanted a good looking guy to talk to. So, she started emailing and texting nude pictures and dirty talk with a couple of guys. I confronted her and she said she'd stop.
Then I found out that she slept with a guy in November. I went on vacation (by myself) and when I got back I found out that she was pregnant from that guy. She didn't even know his last name. I told her that whatever she wanted to do with the child I would support her... if she keeps it then I'll raise it as if it were my own and no one would know it wasn't mine. Long story short, there were some medical issues that came up where terminating the pregnancy was the right thing to do for my W's health.
We were holding hands, kissing, hugging...she would send me various texts about how amazing I am and how she loves me. During this whole time I felt like things were the way they used to be. I would do everything I could for her and she would hold out on me with intimacy. I was trying to explain that that is where I felt things started going wrong with the marriage. I admitted that I made mistakes and did my best not to blame her. I told her it was no one's fault, but that is where I feel we got stuck in the cycle.
We were being honest with each other and I told her that i didn't trust her. I would try, but she needed to help me out and earn that trust back. She went to a friend's house. I texted her...nothing...I needed to ask her a question about the kids, so I called...nothing. I tried a couple more times and I texted a couple times again. By this time I'm panicking. I get a text back from her saying, "hey". I called her the second I got it and she didn't answer...this went on for a while.
The other day she got dressed up...complete with makeup and pushup bra. She said she doesn't get a chance to dress up. We were going to take the girls to a movie, but my W skipped out because the house was dirty and she needed to go to the grocery store. When we came home from the movie she wasn't at the house. We walked in and it was still dirty. An hour or so later she comes in with nothing buy hair dye that she bought.
Then she went over to her friend's house until 2 am one night and 12:30 the next.
I think anyone could understand why i would be a little worried. She said she wasn't seeing any guys and got upset. I know she's still bleeding from the abortion, so if she was seeing a guy I doubt full blown sex happened...but still. Even if she isn't seeing anyone I think I have a reason to worry.
You guys know how it goes from there. So, she decided she didn't want to work on us anymore. This is after I co-signed on a loan for a new car for her. I asked her what were all the texts last week telling me that I was amazing and such. The kissing. The hugs. The saying I love you. She said that I forced her into kissing me, etc. She said she loved me hoping that she would actually feel it. She has no desire to be with me and even the way I breathe annoys her.
So here we are. We talked about trying to continue working on things for the kids sake. We don't want them living in two houses. She said we could live together but she wants to date other people. I said no way. She agreed not to date. However, she keeps going back and forth with if she wants to try to fall in love with me again.
Enough was enough so I told her that I am willing to do what it takes to make this work, but the missing piece of the puzzle was her being in love with me...and she made it clear she doesn't want to be in love with me. She feels bad for it (doesn't that mean she kinda wants to love me?). I told her that I can't make her do anything and I'm not going to try and talk her into being with me. I told her that I was moving out and giving her the divorce. She stated that that is not what she wants for either of us. She wants to work on herself to figure out why she doesn't feel in love with me.
Today, she's not sure she wants to do this and she's doing it only for the kids, etc. thing. Apparently, I make her miserable and she feels terrible about herself when she's around me. But, we are still going to work on it for the kids. We will try living in the same place for a couple of weeks and go from there. I said I was fine with that, but no dating. She sighed and said, "fine". She didn't seem to thrilled to be working on us.
I'm going to be frank here. I am exhausted. I'm tired of getting bad news. I'm tired of the pain. I'm tired of being in limbo. Admittedly, I have been pushing a bit so I could get clarification. I realized today that I am pursuing again and it's pushing her away. I slipped a lot from the changes I initially made. Even when the changes were in full effect she was telling everyone on craigslist that she isn't attracted to me. She wants to have fun and feel normal again.
I don't know if I have the energy for this anymore. I am in pain that doesn't seem to ever let up. I don't know where she's at with working on us. I know she wants to do it for the kids sake and she feels guilty for not trying because of the kids. She's made it clear she doesn't really feel like trying.
Should I just cut my losses and move out? The thought of doing that to my kids again freaks me out. It kills me. I'm sure they feel all the turmoil too. What do I do?
The thing the terrifies me the most is her being with other guys. It kills me. I wonder if that is why I'm staying because of that fear. She did agree to go to counseling though...but for now we are not even talking about the marriage because we both need a break from it. However, I still am thinking of moving out asap. I'm confused, lost, hurt, and clueless.
wow...
Forgive me for not going through the whole thing. Can I simply give you a big validation for the entire post above? By the third paragraph, my jaw was to the ground...
I also have to give a generic, no one can make the decision for you. You are back here and you need support and that's understandable...
But I hear something else in your voice that I suspect you are afraid to say...
Are you prepared to let go of piecing right now and go to LRT?
I'm scared to death for my kids sake. I'm scared because I think I still love her. I'm scared to death because I have the tiniest sliver of hope left. I'm scared to death she's going to hurt me more with other guys/girls. I'm scared it's over.
Am I ready for the LRT? I'm ready to give her her divorce. Personally, I think she's put me through the ringer. I've been here for her, I've forgiven her, I keep getting hurt. I don't believe that the LRT will do anything. She'll have her freedom and she'll do things where I'll never be able to take her back...even if she wanted to come back. That's what terrifies me the most.
I don't know how to get over her.
But I hear something else in your voice that I suspect you are afraid to say...
I'm afraid to admit it's over.
ok. that is honest.
so simmer in your emotions for a bit and then make a choice. harsh, yes. but you have done this before.
stay strong for you and your kids... in their presence...
you're right. I'm doing my best not to let them see me hurt. I don't like the decision I'm going to have to make. But I think she's gone too far and seems to not have any remorse or intent on trying.
Thanks KD. All this has come to a head tonight. I'm flooded with emotions. I almost feel like I'm walking to my own execution.
np, david... take care of yourself... you can't take care of your girls if you are not doing ok. you know that...
keep us posted on your feelings over the next few days.... up and down, good and bad... and vent here, for goodness sake... k?
I said girls... sorry, I forget your kids' genders...
Hahahhaha...you were right. They are both girls.
np, david... take care of yourself... you can't take care of your girls if you are not doing ok. you know that...
keep us posted on your feelings over the next few days.... up and down, good and bad... and vent here, for goodness sake... k?
Will do.
Before your hiatus from the boards, I mentioned that C is a must in order for your sitch to improve. Did you two ever do that?
Before your hiatus from the boards, I mentioned that C is a must in order for your sitch to improve. Did you two ever do that?
No...she doesn't want to be "brainwashed" into loving me again.
I have decided to move out. I proposed that we agree to stay married and work on ourselves, but live in separate places. I told her that I would rather have the kids live in two homes for a year or so, and have mom and dad together later on, than to just call it quits. I told her that I would not accept her dating during this time period and that was a deal breaker for me. If she dates then we need to divorce. She said she wanted to date other people, but begrudgingly agreed. I asked her why she wanted to date and she said it was to meet new people and friends. I told her that meeting new people was fine, but being intimate is unacceptable. I asked her if she'd like it if I was having sex with a bunch of women. She said she didn't care. She says she loves me, but is not in love with me. I told her if she really loves me then she needs to tell me if she's going to go out with other guys rather than me finding out the hard way. She agreed to everything and said we were on the same page. She didn't seem very happy about it though.
Here are my thoughts: She doesn't really have any desire to work on anything. If she goes out with a guy and the emotions strike, do you really think she's going to think about me and stop? Probably not. She hasn't thought about me before. Why would she now? Especially if she lives by herself and doesn't think I'll catch her.
I really feel like she's keeping me in limbo just to get what she wants. Right after that conversation she asked me to buy her some cigarettes and gas for her car. It seems like that's the only reason I'm around. Things were going great when I agreed to father the OM's baby. They were going good when I co-signed for her to get a new car. A week after she terminated the pregnancy and got her car she doesn't want to be with me anymore.
I know no one can make my decision for me. Could I get some opinions though? I'm really thinking about filing for divorce and get on with my life. I think that I have went above and beyond trying to make this marriage work. It doesn't seem to matter to her. As a human being, a man, I feel like I'm selling myself out. Frankly, I'm losing respect for myself.
The weird thing is that I just feel numb for the most part. I have moments where there is extreme pain and I cry. But, it seems like something happens every other week. I don't think I've had time to process any of this because it keeps piling up. Like I said, I'm numb. My friends and family keep telling me that what she has and is doing to me is horrendous. They wonder when she lost her humanity. I know they are trying to protect me. I'm feeling like she's gone way too far. I think that once I move out and start processing this stuff I'll end up not wanting to be with her again. Sometimes, when I think about leaving and just moving on, I get this peace and stillness come over me. Dare I say I feel happy and relieved.
I would like to come through this with some dignity left.
Is there a point where divorce is a healthier option?
Boundaries need to be obvious and the must be enforced.
How would you know if she was being intimate with someone?
Is your hand on the trigger and you WILL file if she is intimate with someone? The dog's gotta bite...
From what I can tell, you two have had a really interesting definition of piecing...
But for the most part, aside from I have probably been at this a few extra months... our experience is pretty much the same.
My W does not feel M, but does not want to D (well, maybe she really does, now) and was pretty happy doing absolutely nothing in one direction or the other.
Now I am not in any way encouraging this. But in my case, I will no longer be M to someone who does not want to be M, does not believe she is M, and acts like she's single. I have been separated for 15 months. I will be filing.
I would recommend a trial separation to start. But really, and I'm going to admit that while I did change to some degree, I could do more, M to me wouldn't be much different now for my W. But... until the D is final, I will keep DBing. Maybe something will click for my W. I don't know.
So I'm just saying... if you can take it slow, do so. And keep DBing... for your future...
Ok everything your wife said I had heard from my W at some point or another.
The fact she doesn't find you attractive is pretty much a dead ringer here.
What have you done to make yourself more attractive?
Superficial stuff like getting in shape matters.
Now comes the biggest part:
I can tell by your actions that your W has very little respect for you. She knows that you will do ANYTHING to keep her by your side. (I mean you offered to raise another man's child!)
So she has very little respect for you. She's proven that time and time again. I am of the belief that if there is no respect, there is no attraction period. She probably does a thousand little things that test your ability to stand up for yourself and you probably fail them on a daily basis.
Does she seem like the type that nothing is ever done right, no matter how hard you try?
Is she the type that never knows what she wants when you go out, and none of your suggestions appease her?
Does she go into the biggest rage because things around the house are never done just the way she wants them?
Is she the type that cannot keep even simple promises like picking up the kids or getting something you ask for on the way home.
Do you feel like no matter what you do to make her happy it just seems to make her more and more upset and demanding in the long run?
If you answered yes to a lot of these questions, then her lack of attraction to you my friend stems from a lack of respect for you.
I like repeating this quote that a very wise woman told me when things were at their worse for me.
"I want a man that can stand up to me, because he can stand up for me"
It's a powerful statement because it taps into a very primal way of being and thinking for women. Strong is attractive, weak is not.
Right now any man or woman that has the guts to hit on a married woman is way more attractive than you.
She has you in her purse, waiting to receive a morsel of love. She doesn't have to be nice to you.
These OM/OW's she has to seduce them and win them over and prove to herself that she is worth something.
Now what can you do?
It's the little things my friend.
Is she always late? Start demanding she is on time.
Does she yell at you? Tell her you will not tolerate getting yelled at and will talk once she calms down.
Yells at you for not doing a chore right. Tell her that you are doing your best, and that this is acceptable to you, if she gets mad at that tell her that you are more than willing to do the dishes, but if it's such a big deal maybe she should do them.
Most importantly when she threatens to walk out, open the door.
If done right though you will notice that standing up for the little things will in time reduce how much big strife you see in your M.
I recommend you look up how to become an Alpha male and incorporate into your 180's. Imho There's a guy named Athol Kay that gives good advice on how to become a strong man while building a good marriage. Keep following DR, and sorry to say this bud but you're not piecing.
Just remember stand up for the little things and work your way up. The more you do it, the better it'll feel. She'll also respect you more and challenge you less.
I don't think it matters anymore. I don't want the m to be over, but it's out of my hands now. She does not love me. She borderline hates me. I can see it all i er her. Things continue to happen every week or two. It's over. Too much has happened and I cannot take anymore. I think that has been whats shes wanted the whole time. It's unhealthy. I don't want to give up, but there comes a point where you have to. I appreciate everyone's help. This is the hardest decision I've ever made. DB'ing at this point is hopeless. I don't know how to get over this, but it's time to let go and start healing.
David
It's a tough decision, but I'm glad you are at the point where you can get some form of resolution.
Be strong, now more than ever she will try to take and take and take. Keep your cool, stand up for yourself and be the mature adult of the two.
You may find that as the D progresses she may try to come back. Honestly I wouldn't take her back until she agrees to some very heavy measures. She needs to know you are valueable and have a high price of admission.
Good luck and keep us posted.
GB90,
Thank you. I can honestly look back and say that I did everything in my power to make this work for the kids. I wanted it to work, but I can only do so much. After all that has happened, and the stuff that happened today (seriously every week she does something) I don't want her back.
Personally, I think I've been grieving the loss of 16 years with her. I'm 32. That's half my life. As for who she is now...I can't stand her. I think I came to a point today that I could actually see her for who she really is. I've been denying it for years because I didn't want to admit that she could do this to me.
She can try to take and take as much as she wants. I think she'll be in for a surprise. I see through her BS now. I'm happy to get out of this relationship and move forward.
As far as her trying to come back as the divorce proceeds...well you're probably right. I can see that happening. But some of the stuff she has done is unforgettable. Even if she was truly repentant I don't think I could take her back. I'm the kind of guy where I can be very patient and forgiving, but once I get to the point that it's over...it's over.
It's going to be hard for her to take and take when I won't have anything to do with her. I'll be nice and friendly and co-parent the best that I can with her...but that's it. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the divorce as far as custody goes. I'll deal with that after I get completely moved out and settled in. It wouldn't be right to make a decision with my emotions the way they are. I'll have to do what's best for the kids. One thing at a time though.
All in all I feel relieved. A lot of weight has been taken off my shoulders. Something clicked today. I'm not in love with her and I do not want to reconcile. If it weren't for the kids I'd walk away and she'd never know where I went. We would never speak again. If it weren't for the kids I never would have dealt with this for so long.
Maybe I'm emotional and just venting. I don't know. I feel a little bit of sadness. But I know I'm doing the right thing. I'm very calm and feel centered for the first time in a long while. Who knows. Tomorrow I could long for her like never before. I somehow doubt that, but I've never gone through a divorce before. Heck, I haven't dated anyone since I was 16. She was my first. So, I'm pretty naive I suppose.
I'll probably pop in now and then. I dont know that i could help anyone on the board since my M failed miserably.
I know some of you have reconciled. Some have divorced. Some are working on their marriage. Some are DB'ing their butts off just hoping and praying for a chance. Whatever situation you're in I wish you all the best. Thanks for kicking my @$$ when I needed it (especially you MrBond) and encouraging me. You all will never know how much it meant to me.
Just reading over my posts from the last couple of days. A lot has happened in the last 48 hours. Either things are starting to make sense or I'm bi-polar
P.S. I'm not bi-polar. My shrink told me so.
P.P.S. That was my pathetic attempt at a joke.
David
Try to relax, and don't be too hard on yourself.
I really recommend you reconnect with your "manhood" in the next couple of months. Learn to love the independence and rediscover your self worth.
Good luck
GB
I've been reconnecting with some friends. I've had my daughters the last two nights and I moved in into my new apartment. The first couple days I felt relief. The past couple have been really rough and seems to be getting harder.
The kids seem to remind me of their mom. I'm really missing her. I wish we. Luke work things out but she doesn't want to. Plus, I can't believe a thing she says so I'd never know if she was serious.
I guess it's going to take time.
I do see how I could get caught up in a rebound relationship. I have urges and I would love to blow off some steam. I almost think that being with other women would help take the edge off of the pain. After all, she's doing it...if I did the same thing then I'd feel better.
I don't believe that though. I'm lonely, hurt and vulnerable right now. The last thing I need is to hook up with some women. Yes, she's hooking up with guys (girls?)...who knows. But that doesnt make it right. I have to be strong for the kids. They know mom is dating and it really hurts them. I can't do that to them.
How are you doing, David?
How are you doing, David?
I have no idea. Things continue to be crazy. I talked to her the other night about us divorcing. She said that we just can't get along. I told her that we need to learn how to communicate with each other. We fight about the same thing. I ask what it is she doesn't like...she tells me, "i've told you a million times"...I tell her that that really isn't telling me anything...she says that I'm on her a$$ all the time...I tell her that that is a broad statement...she gets mad.
It's the same routine. I don't know what her motivation is but she said that we need to get a third party involved to help us sort this out...she told me to find a counselor and make and appointment. She told me that her heart is not in it, and the only reason she wants to work on us is for the kids. I asked her if her heart is not in it then why is she doing it. she said she doesn't know. I asked her if she's doing it to get me to go away, or if she's going to try at all...she said, "I said I would so just make the appointment".
She said that she doesn't want a divorce for the both of us but that she feels like there's no other choice so she is just accepting it.
not too long ago she was saying she wouldn't go to counseling because they would "brainwash" her into loving me again. \
I'm reading books about detaching and codependency. They are helping me a lot.
I think we're kind of in the same boat Jenna333. My W and I started dating when we were 16, got married at 20, have two kids and we're now 32 years old.
I don't know why I still want to be married after everything that has happened. I do though. I'm sure you understand what I mean when I say that she feels apart of me. I don't want the person she's turned into, nor do I want my old marriage back.
I'm not angry about anything she's done. I don't feel like she has been in her right mind. Oddly, I understand. It hurts really, really bad. But I've committed to forgive her whether we reconcile or not. Anger and unforgiveness just isn't worth it I suppose.
All in all, I don't think she knows what she wants. I've offered to give her her divorce on two occasions and both times she's said she doesn't want that. She won't file for divorce either. Her heart isn't into working on us, but she continues to agree to work on it. Cake-eating? Maybe.
I've rambled enough...hope things are going well for you.
David
I've seen this situation unfold a couple of times already. Your W does not want to leave, but she does not want you.
Deep down something tells her she "should" stay. Yet she can't understand why. She has to get over her anger. You can't convince her not to be angry. She has to do it on her own.
Just be prepared because she can stay angry for a very long time. The anger feeds itself as she applies a negative lense to everything you do. Don't fall for her traps to blame you for everything. Hold your ground and start thinking where you want to be a year from now. Talk it over with the counselor and make sure W finds out eventually be strong and plan for your happiness. W then has the option to join you. In order to do so she must turn into the W you desire.
Just remember this:
"we get the relationship we allow to happen. What have you done today to get the relationship you want."
Sometimes this involves telling the person you love that enough is enough.
We have been talking quite a bit lately. I'm almost concerned that it's a little too much. She doesn't seem to mind, but for some odd reason I feel uncomfortable. We've been hanging out a bit too. I took her and the girls out to dinner for valentine's day.
The other night she spent the night at my place to help me look for cars (mine died and she has a knack for finding amazing deals on great cars). She had to go pick up some medicine. I couldn't tell if this was a legit reason or if she was getting away from me. I went to bed and she came back a bit later and went to sleep in the girls' room.
I have the girls this weekend. The girls wanted her to come to dinner with us, so we invited her and she came.
She's spending the night at my place again tonight. She's going with me tomorrow to look at some cars. Plus, the girls like it when she comes over and stays. I don't mind because it makes the girls happy.
There is nothing going on between us. In fact, I'm not sure where we even stand. We agreed to not have any R talks until we go to counseling...so that's what I'm doing.
During the conversation where she agreed to go to counseling, she said that I over- analyze things. She's told me a billion times I'm on her ass all the time. It's a pretty general statement and she gets upset when I ask for more details as to what she means. So, I've been trying to figure out what she means on my own. So, I started with overanalyzing, which led me to codependency and detachment.
I pulled her aside the other night after dinner and basically apologized to her for acting that way. I quickly explained that I can see how my behavior made her feel like I was on her ass all the time and not letting her be her own person. She said that it was okay. I told her that it wasn't because it caused a lot of damage between us. She agreed. I quickly ended the conversation so it wouldn't lead into any R talks.
So, she is angry at me. Is that why she keeps telling me that she wants to date other people, but is still somewhat holding on to the M? I can't tell if she's serious about that or if she's trying to see how I will react. She knows that bothers me.
I've told her that dating other people is where I draw the line. She doesn't seem to be dating right now. I haven't brought it up for a couple reasons...
1.) I look needy
2.) I look insecure
3.) That is what she is referring to when she says I'm on her ass and overanalyze things
4.) If I'm going to lovingly detach, I have to let her make whatever decisions she is going to make. She knows how I feel and what the consequences are.
David
I've seen this situation unfold a couple of times already. Your W does not want to leave, but she does not want you.
Deep down something tells her she "should" stay. Yet she can't understand why. She has to get over her anger. You can't convince her not to be angry. She has to do it on her own.
Okay...so she feels like she doesn't want to leave and something tells her to stay...but she doesn't want me. How does that work? Will she ever want me again? After the anger dissipates?
The unfortunate answer is that it's up to her to let go of whatever she is holding against you.
There is nothing you can do except be a good husband, and keeping yourself as an attractive option.
She may be physically back, but she is still in the WAW mindset.
I recommend you become the man you want to be. Not the man your wife wants you to be. Find what it is you want to embody and become it. She can then decide if she wants the new you or not.
Think of yourself as being in the dating market. Would you be very marketable? What can you do to bring up your value. What qualities would attract another partner?
You may notice as you change that your W may find herself attracted again to you. She may never not, but at least you'll be a better person for it.
I started lifting weights, dressing better, and being more upbeat. What could you do?
Become a better man, to become a more attractive husband.
Ultimately she is the only one that can decide if she wants to love you, will you look like a dud or a stud when it's her time to decide?
Hope that helps
David
One more thing, she may have come back because returning is the past of least resistance. It doesn't mean she is ready to work, or be glad to be with you.
In other words she may be thinking she has to live with you, but doesn't have to like it.
So ask yourself this, what would it take to be the type of guy she wants to live with?
I started lifting weights, dressing better, and being more upbeat. What could you do?
Ultimately she is the only one that can decide if she wants to love you, will you look like a dud or a stud when it's her time to decide?
I've dropped 85 pounds. I dress nicer. She has pointed out somethings that bother her. I'm working hard at changing those things. I've read nearly 40 books on relationships, marriages, sex, alpha males, letting go, affairs, forgiveness, etc. Not only have I read them, but I have put them to practice.
The big issue is my (and her) need to detach. I never quite understood the concept, but it makes sense now. By being codependent I was never allowing her to be herself...of course she's codependent as well....but I can't change that. I can see how this affected the marriage negatively.
I really am not concerned if I'm a stud or a dud in her eyes. Don't get me wrong, I would love to be with her, but not under these conditions. She's got to step up to the plate. When she left I became a better person. A happier person. I've already told her that I'm going to have a great marriage; I just prefer it's with her. One way or another I'm taking the family to the next level by being a better father, husband, etc. She can come with me if she wants, but it's her choice.
I don't feel like I have anything to prove to her anymore. I've owned up for my mistakes...and I keep owning them as I discover them. I'm working hard on changes...not for her...for me and my kids. I love her and miss her, but I'm going to be fine with or without her.
As for her being back...I'm not sure she is. Right now she is going through some financial hardships. She is suddenly being nice to me again. I seem to remember the last time she was really nice to me...it ended up with me agreeing to father another man's child...until she had an abortion and then kicked me out a week later. Normally, I jump in and save her. She's dropped a few hints. I politely told her that I was not in a place where I could help her financially, but if she needs someone to talk to or someone to help come up with some ideas for extra income I will be here.
Here are the facts...She left me. If she doesn't want me as a husband then she doesn't get the benefits of having one. I left everything to move in with her, just to be treated like garbage and thrown out. She's left me in a severe financial stranglehold as well. She wants me to get off her ass and let her be herself. Well, that's what I'm doing. She can't miss me if I'm always there picking up the pieces. She's never going to learn to deal with her mistakes or decisions if I'm always doing that for her.
I hope that I'm not coming off as bitter or angry. I'll admit I'm a bit frustrated. I've just come to realize that, if I love her, then I will let her go. I'll let her make her decisions. Sure, they not be the ones I would make for her. I may or may not like her decisions. But, she is an adult and is free to make them. She is also free to enjoy the good and bad results of her decisions. I'm free because I don't have to worry about her decisions...only mine.
Quite honestly, I have too much going on in my world. I can't try to live and fix her life for her. I know life [censored] for her right now. I would love to jump in and save the day. The only thing that would do is rob her of the chance to be herself and make her own decisions. Just like with my girls...sometimes I have to step back and let them learn the hard way. Plus, I've tried living and fixing her world for a long time...it hasn't turned out so well, has it?
I can look back and see how far I have come, and frankly, I'm proud. I'm not the obese, depressed, hopeless man that I was when she first left. I'm not the man lying face down on the floor crying hysterically because I found out she was dating. I'm not the man that is acting like the victim. I'm the man that has stepped up to the plate and have become a better father, husband, and human being. I still have a long ways to go...but I'll keep going until I get there.
So, I'm not the man that has the guts to hit on a married woman. I'm the man that has too much self-respect and respect for a fellow human being to do that. I'm not the bad boy that goes out and acts like a douche. If that is what she considers confident, then so be it. I call it being a belligerent, insecure, unhappy fool. I'm secure in who I am. I love who I am. I'm proud of who I am. I have nothing to prove to anybody. I take care of my business and focus on the important things like being a good father to my kids. I don't have to make others feel small to make me feel big. I don't have to be confrontational to prove to someone I can be. I don't have to hit on a lot of women or need someone to help validate who I am.
I'm me dammit. If that's not good enough for her, then that's her choice...and I'm willing to accept and honor whatever choice she makes.
I hope and pray that our marriage counseling will help us heal and grow closer together. I really do love her and want the best for her. I want her to be happy...as much as I hate to say this...even if it's without me.
One last thing...why does it automatically censor the word "s.u.c.k.s.", but it will allow me to say ass, dammit, and refer to someone as a douche?
Will it edit a phrase like, "a vacuum cleaner [censored] up dirt off the carpet"? What about, "suck it up"?, or, "all that running sucked the life out of me"?
Wow...it didn't censor it this time...it just took the word out of the quote.
Am I missing something here? Is that word taboo for a specific reason?
I think I'm having too much fun with this. Maybe I should go to bed.
I had to cancel the marriage therapy session we were supposed to have this coming wednesday. apparently someone at her work had a family member die and she needs to cover for them.
part of me thinks it's bs. another part thinks she may be telling the truth.
Eh, she gets one.
Try no to let it bother you, you can lose some major cool points by acting suspicious about it.
Act like it didn't bother you at all. She may even wonder why you're acting that way. If she skips out a second time just calmly tell her that you're starting to get the impression she doesn't want to go. Then drop it, and keep moving with your previous plan to move on.
The whole point is that she needs to go of her own free will. If you nag her about it or drag her to the therapist you'll just waste your money. If she refuses to go just chalk her up to her unwillingness to make amends and move on. At the very least go dark.
Yep...just as I suspected. She doesn't want to go. She was only going so she wouldn't hurt my feelings.
Did she admit that she lied to you?
yes she did. she told me today that there is a guy she likes.
David
Then save your money. If there's another guy in her radar she'll just use counseling to "try to prove" that the marriage is unsaveable.
Her admitting there's another guy she likes is a line crossed. I recommend if that's the case for you to drop the rope and go dark. Is she still living with you? If so consider separate housing arrangements.
I know she left returned, and is now flipping on you again. She appearantly can't still make the choice to put whatever anger she has behind and focus on truly piecing. She is still WAW, and in my opinion will probably stay WAW until something radically changes.
That changing factor needs to be you, personally I think you need to talk to her and let her know that her having feelings for someone else is unacceptable, and she needs to decide if she will pick him over you. Yes it is an ultimatum, so you have to be 100% ready for her response.
Judging by your previous posts it seems you are getting tired of this, and I don't blame you.
She is not living with me. I've given her the ultimatum before so now I have no other choice but to follow through. I contacted my lawyer this morning. With a heavy heart I will be filing papers.
Okay...I've got to vent. If anyone wants to throw in their 2 cents...please do.
I'll start off with a little backstory:
My car died. I went to take the kids to school and it wouldn't start. Long story short, my engine was dead and I had to buy a new car. The tow truck parked my car in the wrong apartment complex. I had to get rid of it. My w needed some money and asked if she sold it if she could have some of the money. I don't have the time and we were going to go to counseling so I said sure...but she'll need to clean it. I asked how much and she said "a little".
Yesterday...she told me that we are over completely...you can read my previous posts if you want to catch up.
Today she tells me that she sold the car for $2300 and asked if I could meet the person buying it to make the transaction. So she texts me and tells me she is going to get evicted if she doesn't pay rent. I asked her if she wanted me to drop off the $300 dollars for the car. She responds with "$300? Really?" in which i replied that I thought it was a generous amount. Keep in mind that she didn't clean the car or meet up with the buyer...I did. She responds back with "I sold it for $500 dollars more than expected and that's all I get? Nevermind." I answered back, "if that's the way you want it."
So...I feel guilty. I keep trying to remind myself that she left me. She doesn't want me. She cheated on me numerous times. She doesn't want to go to counseling. It's not my responsibility to pay her rent. She doesn't want me, but she wants my money? I feel awful for her. She decided to spend her money on other things...she needs to accept responsibility for her actions. I have bailed her out so many times and enough is enough.
I text messaged her later and asked where I needed to drop off the kids (she couldn't get them from the daycare and it's her night to have them)...she never responded. I made a few phone calls and got it worked out without her.
Why do I feel so bad about this? I owe her NOTHING!!! I don't want to be vengeful. She flat out doesn't want me. If she's hurting so bad financially then call the other guy...not me.
Advice? Encouragement?
You're doing the right thing. Take care of the kids first. You can't control her but you can do the responsible thing for your kids. Be sure their needs are met. If she can no longer keep them in a safe environment to live in, then you fight for custody.
There are a lot of HUGE issues involving custody. It would not be wise to post about any of them. I really could use some advice...can you PM on this board?
So any updates?
I noticed your SN changed.
I filed for divorce. We had our first court session a couple weeks ago. Things went in my favor.
She no longer has her own place...she is living between two of her family members homes, she doesn't have a job...she was fired. No money...keeps asking me (I say no each time), started school (hopefully a step in the right direction), blames me for everything, tells me i'm an a-hole and she hates me. she's mad because i filed for divorce due to adultery. she says that i never cared about the kids and now i'm super dad all because i'm trying to make her look bad. she is very, very angry and critical towards me.
i feel like i hate her. the truth is that i miss her. i don't want the person she is now. but i'm losing hope she will ever change. and if she does, how will i know since i don't trust her?
i really feel compelled to come back to the boards and work on my marriage again. however, i can't go back to dealing with that kind of pain again. i'm finally at the point that i can breathe. i do not have nightmares anymore. i can concentrate on my work. i'm genuinely happy. i just can't work on it anymore. i've come too far and i don't want to go back. especially if it's a hopeless cause.
i don't understand why i miss her so much. my lawyer is even shocked about some of the stuff she's done. yet, i want her back?!? WTF?
i'll check in now and then. thanks for asking.
Check1
I had to reread your sitch to make sure I got it right
She's a user no way around it, think of her as no better than a drug addict. She'll probably keep making excuses for herself, and will systematically destroy her life in the process. She will most likely have plenty of men and women to enable her along the way in order to get a quick lay out of her.
You owe her nothing and gave her all your adult life.
If there's a chance for you two it'll be years from now.
That being said you are a new man, a free one. That's a good thing. It may not seem like it, but the world is your oyster now. Now more than ever you need to work out harder and dress better, don't rush into a relationship but learn how to successfully date.
Become the man that has lots of options when it comes to women, and use that knowledge to never settle for less.
Check1
She's a user no way around it, think of her as no better than a drug addict. She'll probably keep making excuses for herself, and will systematically destroy her life in the process. She will most likely have plenty of men and women to enable her along the way in order to get a quick lay out of her.
The sad thing is that she doesn't see that she's lost anything and is oblivious to the fact that she's about ready to lose it all. I'm worried she may hurt herself if it gets to that point. Then again, maybe she doesn't want anything anymore. Maybe the kids are just a obstacle in the way of her freedom.
It's funny you mention drug addict...I've often wondered if she's taking drugs. Her behavior is so irrational.
It's past the point of giving her sympathy. I don't even want apologies. I just want this behind us (the kids and I) so we can move forward. It's time for her to face the harsh reality that there are consequences to her actions...even if she blames me for them.
It's so hard to watch someone self-destruct right in front of you. It's even harder knowing you can't do a thing about it. Yet, even harder than that is having to turn you back and walk away.