My H is quite happy in his studio, thank you very much!
I just think I’ve done about all I can do and as we all know, DOING is not always the best thing and that , even after all this time, is sometimes hard to remember. I mean, there must be some way to fix this, and if there is, I’m gonna find it and fix it. Right? NOT!
Well, I need to remember to let it go, SOME MORE , ah jeesh… again?!
So in that spirit, I am starting a new thread.
Retrouvaille is great(We still have 4 follow ups left) but, I mean ya can “lead a horse to water…” Soooooo... no... I’m not “done” or “moving on” as we like to say around here, I’m just gonna do “something different.”
GOALS
1. come up with a list of goals
2. get busy 3. become involved in lots of other things and leave H to his cave.
These goals are not as well written as I'd like, so I will refine them when I get some uninterrupted time.
hello fellow sahm...
how are things going...
LL
LL,
I'm so Happy you came to visit me on my thread!!!!!
I'm doing okay now that I've (again) given up trying to fix things.
How are you? I think it is great that you are listing all the positives that are happening in your relationship with your H. Hugs to you!
Okay,
One of my new goals is to Give my H and my relationship over to God. (yes, again) To accomplish this I will pray often and ask for God's help.
I tried to take back control during our Retrouvaille process because there are things TO DO. So I got a little overzealous and went into my "fix-it" mode.
Last night my H was Raging. He was upset about the dog excrement not getting picked up in a timely fashion and because of this he was stepping in it on his trek to and from his studio (cave)
He was abusive to S9 and I about it which, caused S9 to get hives and my stomach to become knotted. So, instead of the old me getting outraged at how he was handling his upset. I just clearly set a boundary and explained that the way he was talking to us was not acceptable and that it was having the opposite result from what he intended. It just made us hope he stepped in more. I said that we are more then happy to come up with a solution to this problem. ( And NO I did not say: "Well, if you didn't insist on sleeping out there in the first place you wouldn't have this problem," lol)
Not only did he appologize proffusely, he said he was mortified at how he had treated us. (He used to rage like that constantly, that first year or two so this is a definate improvement)
He is having a tough time right now and he is really stressed. So, I need to lighten up a little. (He's in between contracts) so he needs to come up with a new contract so that we have money coming in. He also has an infection which doesn't help matters. I really need to let God do His work and try to be less insistent that things go at my pace.
Thanks to everyone who comes to read my thread. Won't you please stop in and say hi? I hope everyone is well and is going to keep the PMA up for the holidays. My prayers are with each and everyone of you.
God Bless! Kansha
My new plan is working out good for me.
This morning I started thinking about H as I was driving back from dropping the kids at school and immediately I said, "No, this is not for me to solve, I've turned it over to God, thank you, God." and that was it.
A feeling of lightness came over me and my mind went on to think of more pleasant things.
I'm not even checking to see how God is doing. It doesn't even sound right to "check on God's work" when you hear it but, I know I'm always looking to see if God is working on it. This would be enough to make any human give up. But, God loves me and understands my impatience. But, I love God so I will not continue to be unloving by looking over His shoulder, so to speak.
Letting Go is always a good idea. I forgot that when I had something to "work" on.
I know my H needs lots of space, still . I do get tired and impatient, I know but, this is not in my time and I know I am perfectly welcome to give up at any time. I will know that I have done everything I can (well that's the point, isn't it?)to save my marriage, to make it satisfying. But, I have not trusted God by continuing to let go.
This is a lesson to learn many times over. Each time I get better and better at it.
Won't you say Hi, so I know you've been here?
Hugs to you (you know who you are!)
hi kansha,
sounds like you've got the right idea...many times over the summer (while h was not here and there appeared to be no hope) when I lay in bed alone I asked god for two things..1. the strength to let go and let h do what he needs to do..2. to help h to find peace.
well it seemed to work as h came home...
but just as you...I have forgotten to leave it alone..I thought that since h was now home..we could start doing the work together..thing is h still has some work of his own to do and apparently so do I.
it's a long road home Kansha...and at times we may stepp in dog sh!t. (like the way you handled h with that one..way to db!!
) but eventually we will get there.
if we only let the man with the plan do the driving.
LL
so what are you going to do for YOU today??
Here I am, to tell you Hi!!!!!!!
I am not familiar with your sit but can identify with some aspects ike the letting go and letting God.
I keep thinking about Retroville. Turns out one of my day care parents and her H attended a few years back. She said that it was great!
Thing is my H and I attended a marriage retreat in Oct and H didn't benefit at all. He's in the Withdrawal phase of his MLC and because he couldn't find any pat answers the retreat only served to add to his stress/confusion.
So maybe the Retroville is for on up into the future.
I remember the Anger. I used to tell my kids to just be quiet and let it blow over.
I also remember being in the car sometime in the fall and him mentioning his yelling sessions. He said he was sorry and did not intend to ever do that again.
Thanks for your post, it helps me remember to keep giving my H to God , to pray for him and to keep letting go and letting God.
This from Lily who is fighting urges to manipulate/control. Learning to let that characteristic diminshish and not be a part of the new me. This Life Lesson is real hard. <Sigh>
Kansha - thought I would give you a shout out from the East Coast...
Like you, I have tried to just "let go" - detach from my W's drama. That has worked wonders for my PMA as I am concentrating on the kids and myself. Of course, W has misinterpreted that as not doing anything - but that's how she is. Can't change her - but I can still choose to love her.
Hope that you have a great SoCal weekend!
HO HO HO !
It looks like Santa has come to my thread a little early! LOL!
I was so happy to see visitors that actually posted to me. It's funny how that is, but it feels like a real treat when I "tune" in to my thread and I actually have "mail"!!! You all made my day!
Yea, LL, I know what you mean, you think, finally, I can "work" on this. Truth is that our H's still have a lot of work to do by themselves and we need to butt out. It's between God and them.
Awhile back, I had a thread over on the MLC forum called, "The Long Road Home- and MLC journey". I guess it's true that great minds think alike, lol.
Hugs!
Lovely Lily! I'm so glad you stopped in to say hi!
My H has been in MLC since 1997 as far as I can trace back. Things started to get really bad in 1999. My story is in the MLC Forum. "The Long Road Home- an MLC journey".
I've been at this so long that most people just shake their heads in wonder
.
I do agree that Retrouvaille is further in your future. Your H like mine, needs a cave to muttle in.
Wow, your kids actually listened to you(when your H was in the angry stage) and stayed quiet. My D(teen) became infuriated, well... uh... so did I,
until I learned to deal with my own anger. My poor little gentle soul s though.
I'm glad my posts are helpful. This letting go thing is so hard for a fixer.
I fell right back into my old pattern without even noticing it. Thanks for your beautiful words, I enjoy reading your threads too.
BTW, I think you live near where I grew up. All my family is still there. I go back to visit from time to time. I've tried to get together with Snodderly a few times but I never could swing it.
Kansha, wishing you peace and inner stillness with which to hear God whisper in your ear... "Lily, have faith, God loves you!You
can let go, I will catch you and Sage, let ME carry your burdens for awhile!"
Bob!!!!
You're such a sweetie to stop by and say Hi!
I was born on the east coast! LA is cold(well for here) and rainy right now.
Yes, letting go does help to keep that PMA buoyant.
I will check in on your thread to see what's up.
A Happy Christmas, for you and yours and for everyone here!
St. Kansha -
Just dropping by. Sorry, sometimes I forget to check in on you over here in your new home. I guess I have less time on the board and only check certain things, and, as you know that's not all bad!
As a fellow "fixer" I can't even imagine how stressful your last part of the journey has been. I just recall when I would get a kind word and think, oh, here we go.
Merry Christmas GF and a very Happy New Year!
(((((Hugs))))
Take Care!
Kansha,
I wanted to stop by and see how you've been. I don't often go to this board, mainly hang out on the mlc board.
Hey, maybe your h should pick up the pooper scooper and get rid of the stuff that is in his path to his cave. Hey, maybe it's a humorous sign from God that he's heading to the wrong room.
Seriously though, I'll check in a little more often as I've been thinking about you.
Hi Kansha!
I think your an inspiration! You certainly deserve a "hi".
Have a happy holiday...
z
Hi Kansha
I found where you have been hiding.
We miss you on the MLC board.
You are doing the best. Give it to God.
I have also had to learn to do that myself again.I think I will get it this time. Being the fixer/doer I have always been, it is a hard lesson to learn.
My husband is still down in the tunnel.
Sure hope the reindeer don't have to unload (poop) if he happens to sick his head out of the tunnel for Christmas.
Merry Christmas
Take Care
God Bless
Pam
hello my fellow sahm..( i do get a kick out of that one still)
just stopping by to wish you and yours a merry christmans and a happy new year..
LL
Merry Christmas Kansha! thought I'd pop over to see how you are doing. I am so glad we had a chance to meet this year. You give me inspiration.
H came over yesterday. I did a 180! I went out! He left me gifts - SHOCK! I got him nothing.
I like the way you handled H & the sh!t he finds himself in, yet reading of his abuse & rage just reminds me I'm glad H doesn't live here anymore. Let him rage without me.
Wishing you & your children a peaceful Christmas. Talk to you soon.
Barb
Hi Kansha,
I'm another one that hasn't had much time on the board lately, but I've been wondering how you've been getting along... And I feel fully confident that you are doing great! You handled your H's rage over the "dog excrement" much better than I have been--I was the one raging at my H a few days ago over beating it off his shoes in the garage, rather than outside (though hopefully I don't rage quite as bad as your H, but you never know!). Anyway, your perspective sounds great right now, so keep it up!
Other than normal stresses of the season, things are going fine here. Nice to have the kids home for a while, nice when they go back to college
...
And yesterday, when I opened my "demotivators" calendar and found a poster inside, I thought of you--it has a neat picture of a tornado, and reads:
CHANGE
When the winds of change blow hard enough, the most trivial of things can turn into deadly projectiles.
I thought of you and your dishes, but you can take it any way you want
Happy New Year!
Deb
Well, I'm saying hi, officially, because that's all I have time for right now. (Kids at home) Wishing you all the best in THIS new year.
Frosty, Sting, Zebra, danman, lostlove, barb, deb, Alex!
Well, isn't that just typical? Here I am asking people to stop and say hi and then when so many do, where am I? Hmmmmm?
I was inundated with my in-laws for the holidays(there were 12 of us, altogether) and we did the sightseeing thing for an entire week. It was fun but when they left, I slept for 2 days. I hope my not responding doesn't discourage anyone from posting to me.
Thanks so much for the good wishes. I pray for many blessings for all of you in 2003!
I think I'm either having a really baaaad case of PMS or my hormones are becoming menopausal(sorry if that's too much info) but I'm in a state! I won't go into it right now but maybe soon.
Alex, I thought you were ignoring me, lol. hugs to your little ones.
debm, I would looooovvee to rage at my H. Oh it would feel sooooo good! Glad you are enjoying your time with your college agers.
I must continue to remember it is "all about me"(All I have to do is imitate my H and I've got "all about me" covered). And continue to let God "handle" my H.
Will update soon, thanks for stopping by and saying hi.
love, Holly
A Hello Jello Bellow from Bridget.
Nice to read your posts again. You sound good!
Catching up on everyone's threads is fun,
and it's encouraging that so many familiar
"faces" surface.
Cheers as you face the new year,
B-grrrlll
Hi, thought I'd let you know that I'd been by your thread again!
hello fellow sahm,
how goes the battle??
LL
I think my H is just trying to get me to divorce him. Why else would he so disregard me and my feelings? Either I’m paranoid or he decided to do the Retrouvaille program just so that he could “say” that “oh yes he tried”.
He is narcissistic and emotionally abusive. He speaks out of both sides of his mouth. I cannot even begin to do justice to what comes out of his mouth.
He is still seeing ow. And feels that is his right. He feels that it is his own business, they're just friends and that his relationship with her has nothing to do with any rebuilding between us.(not that he appears to want to do any rebuilding)
He says he doesn’t believe in “marriage” or “relationships”. He just wants to “do his own thing” and “be himself”. He is certain that being celibate at this time is the absolutely right thing for him. He says that he is majorly pissed off that he just can’t have his kids and forget about all this relationship stuff.
Listening to him is making me sick. In our conversations, it seems, that he just turns things around to be about his latest disappointment regarding something I did or did not do.
This man has some serious issues that I don't believe have anything to do with me.
Is it really better for me to just loathe him then to get a divorce? I so hate divorce that I can’t see anything else.
I’m looking for a job. Got kind of side-tracked because of the holidays. The money issue has gotten terrifying. My H says that unconsciously he’s been on strike regarding earning money because of the way he and I relate financially. He says there is too much muck and until it is cleared up he believes he unconsciously sabotages any job possibilities.
I realize now that how I am being is just not working. I most likely will have to divorce my H. I think he is stuck in MLC. I’ve got too many of my own issues to think too much about him.
Well, I do seem to post this kind of post around “that time” of the month. Which is the real deal? I manage to be positive and focused 2/3rds of the time and then 1/3 of the time I feel hopeless.
What is real?
Plan A:
·Get a job
·Move into my own place
Plan B:
·Get a job
·Divorce H
·Move into my own place
Plan C:
·Get a job
·Give it a little more time
Bridget!
I love reading your cheery posts. Makes me wonder what astrological sign you are to be so cheery and positive. Thanks for popping over to my thread!
Lily, How’s it going? I try to get over to MLC to read you. Will do so today. Hugs!
LL,
I may join the ranks of the wafhm(work away from home mom?) all too soon. I really love being a sahm. I wish it were in the cards.
And yes, right now it does appear to be a battle. My H seems to be winning all the skirmishes, right now. Hang in there sweetie, may you have a better result then I have had so far.
Quote:
What is real?
Plan A:
·Get a job
·Move into my own place
Plan B:
·Get a job
·Divorce H
·Move into my own place
Plan C:
·Get a job
·Give it a little more time
they are all real, and yet if you look they are all very similar... how bout you
get a job
give the m a little more time
move into your own place (though I don't see why if h is living in the shed?)
divorce h
it's a progression of things, start with the one that is a common theme among all of these "realities" and see if that doesn't help a bit...
LL wishing better times for you soon!!
Kansha
I was reading your thread.
Isn't that what all the MLCers want is for us to do there dirty work.
I have left the MLC board for a while. I don't know how long.
I am about ready to spread my wings. Don't really know what direction I want to go in at this time.
I know I can not live with my husband even if he were to come back.
I thought of just filing for the divorce for myself.
I am just not sure which way to turn right now.
I am sure we will end up in divorce.
He said he would file the week after Christmas. He hasn't yet. I saw him Saturday, pass down our road. I waved at him like he was a neighbor. I left before he got back to the house. I don't think I like him too much anymore. He said Christmas Day, he hasn't loved me in 30 years. He thinks of me as a sister.
I just don't belong on the MLC board right now.
Actually I don't know where I belong. I only posted to you, because I remember you from way back when.
Hope you decide what you want and get it.
I guess that is something we have to decide. I really am not sure I could ever feel the way I did about my husband, years ago.
This is a horrid thing that has happened in our lives.
Take Care
God Bless
Pam
Kansha dear, you know all too well what I think of your h, and in spite of my crusade to urge people to give their marriages their all, I do believe you have done just that. Dr. Phil talks about earning your way out, and that certainly applies to you.
At the same time, I think you need to move toward that goal, as LL said, by starting with the common theme of getting a job. This is YOUR journey now, and make sure the job you get is not just a stopgap to bring in money, but something that will bring you peace of mind. Make it a vocational choice, and not just a job. Then figure out the other stuff. Don't worry about WHY your h went to Retrouvaille -- you and he and we will never know that. Just ignore him and move on.
Don't waste your loveliness on him anymore.
Kansha (Saint) -
I read your post yesterday afternoon and it's been on my mind so much. I often wonder at the things your H says to you and actually thinks is okay. I'm not always sure whether it just seems like verbal abuse or if it's just the way I interpret what you write.
At this point, you might need to do something different. He seems very stuck and I do know that they go to counselling because they know it's the right thing to do, but, if they are not going to fix the marriage, it really won't matter. Perhaps Retrouvaille was that for him.
I'm rambling, just cannot believe how your H can manipulate things financially and emotionally, over and over. Don't we all just have to work and support our families?
I'm with AlexN - you have gone beyond earning your way out of this one! Give it away and see what happens.
Take Care!
((((Hugs))))
LL:
Thanks for your input. Yes, "get a job" is the common theme in all of my plans. I'm turning up the heat on that one.
My question about "What is real?" was regarding my attitude and interpretation of the situation based on "that time of the month". Sorry that was confusing.
I will get over and visit your thread soon.
Hugs to you sahm!
Pam, sweetie,
How nice of you to visit. I have kept up with your situation via Snodderly's thread.
The thing about your situation is that if your H is really in MLC,
It has not been long enough. It takes an MLCer at least 2 years (and that's rare) to go through all the stages of MLC. Most people start to notice the MLCer re-connecting with the children(that's first) after about 3 years.
I'm not saying that you should or shouldn't do what you need to do for you.
I chose to wait out my H's MLC and then see what happened. Many people can't or choose not to. If you really truly believe that you will never be able to live with your husband even if he resurfaces from MLC then who files for divorce is not so much the issue except for what is best for you.
About them doing the dirty work, if you really want the D then it might give you a sense of power and control over your own destiny to initiate the D.
But, if you're still not sure then don't worry about it.
Quote:
He said Christmas Day, he hasn't loved me in 30 years. He thinks of me as a sister.
That's typical MLC talk and means nothing. We've all heard some version of that or another.
We all here will support you whatever you decide.
Hugs to you honey.
Ahh, Alex, I've missed you!
Quote:
make sure the job you get is not just a stopgap to bring in money, but something that will bring you peace of mind. Make it a vocational choice, and not just a job.
This has been my dilemna. I really don't want to go back to teaching elementary school. I'm not even sure I want to do any teaching.
I've been researching alternatives within the teaching profession and also trying to figure out what else I can or would love to do.
I love to write and am good at it. I've been looking at what it takes to be a freelance writer. (oh, aren't you a freelance writer?) If you are I would surely love to have your coaching.
I have done extensive research on different work at home schemes.
I am also an artist so have looked at opportunities from that angle.
I use to be fearless. I could make myself up in a second and walk into a place and convince someone to take a chance on me. Where is that young woman?
I know it requires just taking a step and faking it til you make it. I seem to get caught up in so much muck.
Well, I guess I'm venting a little.
Hugs to you and yours! I hope that man of yours is behaving himself.
Frosty,
Quote:
I'm not always sure whether it just seems like verbal abuse or if it's just the way I interpret what you write
Perhaps you wonder because I'm never sure myself when I write it just how much I've interpreted and what he really means.
I'm confused myself. I do think that some of what he says and does
is emotional abuse.
I'm just not sure I want to put myself in a victim role regarding what he says.
He says what he says (my mom use to call it diarrhea of the mouth) and I can and do call him on it. But sometimes I
am appalled at what he says and wonder as do you, if he really thinks what he says is okay.
He is stuck and really he does have an incredible amount of issues that originated in his family of origin which he tends to confuse with me.
I guess the question is just how much disfunction am I willing to live with and thereby contribute too.
I do agree with you and my dear friend Alex, I know I have more then earned my way out of this marriage. I just keep sadly going down the tunnel with no cheese that believes that my H will snap out of it and be his old self.(with some wisdom)
Who would've believed that
I , miss free spirit,(way back when) would have ever stayed so long.
Right now I am witnessing the devastation of what divorce has done to my brother-in-law's kids. My sensitive little S9 would be devastated. It paralyzes me.
You are an inspiration to me Frosty. I love reading about you and your girls. I value your thoughtful posts.
Take care!
For those of you who don't know my history.
Our C use to notice this unusual phenomena that when H does a little venting. He gets it off his chest and then the real H emerges.
She was curious about this and we had several sessions where my H did indeed vent. We noticed that he then became participatory and he was open to learning new and better skills regarding expressing his needs and feelings and he was more open to feedback. And he has put these skills into practice and been improving over time.
The times between his stupid, insensitive and hurtful comments is becoming longer and longer. He just has a long way to go.
So how much of what my H says is just his need to vent? NOT that it is okay for him to say hurtful things to me. But this guy lives in his head. It's like he has to get it out for him to see how confused his thinking is.
After our latest talk. And these have all been very good talks. (I don't like all of what he says and he can have a tendency to bring up things that I do or did that he disagrees with.)my H has felt much more empowered and has been very respectful to me. I know some of the things he says are unbelievable. I do think that when he gets them out he realizes this as well. I know it sounds like I am making excuses for him. That is not my intention. This is a problem.
I need to be much stronger in my bounderies. I need to enforce ground rules for our communication so that I can avoid being vicitimised by his voicing any thought that is in his head.
I do intend to hold him accountable.
I am not back-pedaling. I almost hesitate to share the "cr@p" my H says. But sometimes I get confused. Did he really say what he said?
I just don't think emotional abuse is that simple. He does not systematically undermine me at all times. Just occasionally. This is not okay, I know this. Where is the line crossed from problem to be addressed to abuser and victim?
Not sure I'm making any sense.
I will find my path. I will find my path. I will find my path.
Thanks for listening. I welcome your insights, thoughts, comments, hugs, hellos, etc.
Kansha -
The thought of verbal or emotional abuse has been on my mind for a while. Not necessarily from my H, not sure he communicates enough to get that label. His family culture is not to say enough.
My family, however, has a way with words. We tend to be sarcastic to a fault. It's fun most of the time, but over the years there have been some hurt feelings. The real problem lies in my dad. He is a very intelligent man with no emotional intelligence. He says things that actually insult people, but has no understanding that he did. My mom used to take care of the loose ends with what he would say, she was the only one allowed to "challenge" him in any way. Now that she's passed on, it is getting increasingly worse. Some of my siblings and I have tried on a couple occasions to help him understand. The result is that now his feelings are hurt, he feels attacked by us.
Sorry for the detail, I guess what I've figured out is that human emotions are so complicated and as you say, nothing is simple. I suppose one would need to look at intent to determine actual abuse? I know that I have somewhat shutdown on my dad simply because I can't deal with it. I try to keep it at the weather and such, and unfortunately avoid him if I have to.
It is good that you realize the pattern has changed, perhaps he has to say what's in his head to realize that what he's thinking doesn't make sense?
I only posted what I did out of concern for you. Only you can determine if you've had enough. As we all know, you are the saint!
Take Care!
((((Hugs))))
I vote for a modified Plan C.
A job is good.
You've come to far not to give it a bit more time.
I'd add concentrated prayer.
email me and I'll tell you what I'd like to do :
Lilyofthelight@hotmail.com
Frosty,
I couldn't help but notice that you appologized 2X in your post to me. Once when you said: "sorry for the details" and the other time when you said: "I only posted what I did out of concern for you."
I know it is sometimes hard to know what the "tone" of or intention is, in our posts but rest assured, I always get from you (no matter who you post too), caring, thoughtful, insightful and supportive posts that are also honest and helpful.
I probably have the same tendency to appologize as well, so of course, I would notice it.
I am grateful for the "details" in your post, it's what makes for better understanding. Your generosity in sharing them is appreciated.
As for why you posted what you posted, to me("I only posted,what I did..."), I love your thoughtful, honest even provocative posts. I value honesty and am now ( I'm sure I wasn't the first 2 years) able to hear it like it is.(I think, lol)
I'm glad that you and Alex voiced what you did. At this point I need honest reflection from people that I trust for their wisdom, thoughtfulness, kindness and intelligence. That would be you (and you Alex) and so many more that post here.
I know that I am painfully sensitive, oooooverly sensitive really. I can analyze everything a million times and still not see it in either black or white to better make a decision.
Quote:
I suppose one would need to look at intent to determine actual abuse?
I think that is part of the picture. Also, how we choose to deal with it as well. As an overly sensitive person, it may not be healthy for me to live with my H's comments over time. On the other hand, it is forcing me to be vigilent with my boundaries which, believe me, go "all out" for the "opposing team." giving wide lattitudes for how others treat me.
Quote:
I know that I have somewhat shutdown on my dad simply because I can't deal with it. I try to keep it at the weather and such, and unfortunately avoid him if I have to.
Well,
that is a consequence for your dad (or anyone)
not taking a good long inventory of oneself and not making the necessary changes. I'm beginning to understand, that empathy, is something that not everyone has. Sometimes it's family of origin based and sometimes perhaps it's really just personality based.
A lot of times these labels make it easier for people to leave relationships. "I was emotionally abused, I'm too co-dependant, etc." And many times that
is a good thing. Sometimes one
does just have to say, "I quit." But, other times those labels don't take in the grays and the shadows, the interplay of light and dark. They don't take into account our own ability to change things. For me, I seem uncharacteristically, for me, unable to make that final leap.
Perhaps if I could just SEE my H as THE emotional abuser and that is that, it would make it easier. But, I don't.
Now if he were behaving that way with my kids, perhaps, that would be a different story.
Emotional abuse can damage us in ways we can't even begin to fathom. I hardly fathom how damaged that I might be.
I see glimpses of it. I see it, then I don't, kind of thing.
I seem to be rambling. Your first post grabbed me though because I thought to myself, Frosty ,
sees me. She sees the complexity of the issues for me. She speaks to an undercurrent, that I can't seem to do justice to with just my words.
Communication can be such an imprecise thing. I know that I think I have expressed something so clearly from brain to post, only to read later, that it was interpreted a totally different way.
As you know, I can go on. (LOL) This topic of emotional abuse is one I am willing to explore. I've read many of the books. When my H was in the "acting out" stage of MLC, he was definately a text book case as an emotional abuser. But, before and after, well...
It all really boils down to:
me focusing on me and becoming as strong emotionally, spiritually, physically and creatively as I can be. So that I can make the most of the life that God has given me. No matter who my H is in the matter, it is
ME and my choices that I must focus on. It is such a challenge when I have been practicing unselfishness for at least 17 years now(when my D was born). Before then, I was fairly selfish. But I did have passion. I guess it is the pendulum swinging again. Too selfish, to Too self-sacrificing to being in the moment balanced and chosing at each given moment from strength of character as opposed to driven blindness.
But, there are so many ways to look at
that as well.
That's why over analyzing is never good and taking action can help move things along.
Thanks for your thought provoking posts. I'm sure you got more then you bargained for, LOL.
Kansha, it strikes me that you spend a whole lot of time worrying about your h, and his words, whether they're good for you (because they force you to toughen up) or whether they're bad for you (because they're downright mean). That time, IMHO, could be better spent worrying about YOU. I think you have been closeted within your h's sphere for so long that you have almost lost any sense of reality. And it's become a distorted form of reality. People should not treat others the way your h treats you. That's MHO. And it might not be worth much. Kansha, get back to basics. You can still be compassionate, but you don't have to let someone tread too heavily. You can shield your kids from pain, but if you continue like this, and let h talk like this, they see not such a good view of life and marriage. And what's it doing to you? You say you used to be able to make yourself up and walk into anyone's office and convince them to take a chance on you. What's your h's abuse done to that glowing self-esteem? (Sorry, but I believe he is abusive. I don't care if he periods of great remorse, or periods of enlightenment, the overall image is one of abusive behaviour.) You're worth more than this, okay?
Yes, I'm a freelance writer, but there is NO money in it. Unless you can hook up with a PR company, and then you can make money. But writing for magazines and newspapers is tough. Not to discourage you, just to tell you what it's like. There's no reason why you can't start small though, while you're looking for other work, and do the odd article here and there. There's lots of help via books and internet stuff to tell you how to go about it.
Aww Alex, I just had some time on my hands, to hang out on the BB for a change and spent some time on this subject. Normally, I really do not allow myself to analyze or focus on my H at all. I got over that the first year or so! You caught me!
I have been strongly laying down the law with my H and went to the mat regarding his behavior towards me. I have put him on notice.
It wasn't easy and I had a couple of rough days.
I am still going on with my plan to have an independant source of income and find something satisfying for myself as well. I will then go from there.
My H actually does not
"do" remorse. But he does learn overtime when the boundaries are drawn for him.
Well, this is a process. You are right, there is NO excuse for his behavior towards me! Thanks for the hard line.
Have you ever checked out this internet networking site?
http://www.ryze.com/index.phpI think they have a writers networking group as well.
Thanks for putting up with me. I do know I can go on.
Sometimes I do like to indulge in a little obsessing.
Hugs to you.
Well thank God I made it through the latest "attack of the hormones."
It's amazing what a little leveling out of the hormone levels will do for the PMA.
Will try to update soon.
Hugs to everyone.
That "attack of the hormones" gets me everytime.... Too bad we couldn't refocus that energy each month, we could make a million.
You sound better, I'm so glad!
Oh, BTW... college girl and I get razzed all the time for saying "I'm Sorry". Seems like there could be a worse fault out there.
Kansha,
Saw your posting to me. My email is
Snodderly@olg.com (I need your new email address!)
You sound great and I am hoping everyone is doing well. How are the children and the pups? When are you planning to visit this coast again? Take care of yourself! I still have my crystal ball sitting up on the shelf. Everytime I look at it, I think of our conversations and laugh!
Kansha, I was just catching up (again) and see what a rough time you've been through. At least with Alex, Frosty & Snod checking in on you, you've been in good hands! Glad to hear things are a little smoother these days. Hmmm, do you think MY hormones could have had anything to do with my H and I getting into it over the windshield wiper blades yesterday??? Ah well, life goes on.
I did enjoy time w/my college girls home. Youngest just went back today (oldest a week ago). Much as I love them, I'm ready for a little peace & quiet. Just pin that terrible mother of the year award on me!
Good luck with the job search--and I do hope you find something beyond a "job," because that's mostly how I feel about mine, and at times it really sucks. But it may take you a few tries to get there. I'm in favor of giving your H a little more time & patience, if you have it--it does seem that he's come a ways, and that you love him.
Hugs, Deb
Hi Kansha,
I can't believe that it is nearly a year since I was making plans to come over and visit. I had a really nice time out there on the West coast. I think of you everytime I get into my car (I still have the key ring!) and when I go to bed at night. One of the last things I do is take out my earrings and put them in the little music/trinket box I bought on our last day out.
For an update on my sitch. check out Snodderly's thread over on MLC. Nothing new, still in limbo land.
I read your last update and am sorry that things are not progressing any faster for you either. As to your H wanting you to D him that is a real possibility. It means he doesn't have to make a decision and he can blame you for what is happening to them. On the other side, the length of time this has been going on without any movement in the direction of the D, shows that it is not what he really wants. If it was he would have made it happen by now.
I would like to suggest a modification to your plans A/B/C.
Get a job.
Don't bother getting a place of own just yet.
Get out more. Use H as baby sitter.
Build a life for you and the kids without H.
When you have re-established your life without H in it, then consider the D option. By that stage, if you have done all the above, it will really be just a piece of paper.
In the meantime, let H win all the skirmishes and battles. Remember you are going to win the war.
Good luck,
Credo
Well, I have been a busy bee!!
I didn't even have a second to log on to the BB.
I am happy, OH SO HAPPY to report, that I have found a project/home business/"job" for myself. I am starting a business that I am actually enthusiastic about and when I get further along, I will share about it with you. Of course, it will take awhile for me to earn my keep but the potential
is there. Whew! I didn't think I would find anything that I could be enthusiastic about.
We have been in nail-biting mode here for the last week. H is the process of landing a very large contract. We are at the end of our savings so it couldn't come at a better time. God has a way of lifting us up at the very very very last minute. I trust in God. It turns out we won't know anything until next Wednesday so if you have a mind to pray for us keep those prayers coming.
Now here is the crux of my very existence for the last 4 years:
Quoting credo21:
Build a life for you and the kids without.. H
...When you have re-established your life without H in it, then consider the D option. By that stage, if you have done all the above, it will really be just a piece of paper.
I knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt that if I did just that, in these past four years, that I would
never, Never have stayed. I would have been long long gone. I would've created something that would've allowed me, encouraged me, to do what 50% of all married people do, DIVORCE! I would never have been able to stand up to that immense tide.
That is why I was so reluctant to get too much of a life. I knew I would not stay and learn my lessons and be able to withstand all the pressures. I am just too weak a person, in that area. Perhaps you might think this is just a justification, or lack of courage or excuses or what not. But I needed to detach just enough so I could stop the pain and stop any pursuit but not enough to break my bond with H.
I know myself, when someone causes me pain, I leave, cut them out of my life etc. That actually
was my knee jerk reaction to my H's behavior. For some reason, I didn't act upon it.
But, today... I think it is now time to really do this. I have earned my way out of this marriage and know that I am not running from pain now. I can fully commit to my own life now, knowing full well, that it will irrevocably change the course of my life. I know it is time to finally, finally, let go of my marriage
completely for better or for worse. I am now not holding the space for our marriage. If my H wants it he will have to hold that space. I love my children and have done everything I can to "stay" for them. I'm not leaving now even. Just finding myself and not afraid of, if in the process, I leave my marriage.
I'm not sure if I have conveyed the true essence of what I believe and feel within these words. But, I do know this, it is time for a new chapter in my life where it really is about Kansha.
Quoting credo21:
In the meantime, let H win all the skirmishes and battles. Remember you are going to win the war.
Wiser words were never spoken my friend. I need to post this everywhere so I do not forget.
Frosty,
I hesitate to even call “it” a fault. Apology is very important, spiritually. It’s just that you are such a contribution in every way and have nothing to apologize for! Hugs to you!
Snodderly,
I will e-mail you and send mine along. I’m actually suppose to be on the east coast in May for my brother-in-law’s wedding(I get to sing a song for them). It will be just a fly in and out kind of thing, though. I’m glad you did not toss that crystal- ball, it really is a symbol of how far we have come! I’m so proud of you Snodderly! You have become a mainstay for so many people.
Hey Deb,
Thanks for still checking on me! I LOL on the “just pin that terrible mother of the year award on me!” comment, I thought I had won that! Hugs to you and yours.
Credo,
Aww shucks! That was nicely said! I’m so glad you use that key ring. It was a fine time wasn’t it? I wish it were a yearly thing. And you were so generous to share your travels with me! I will go and check out your situ.
Hugs to everyone! I am praying for you.
Kansha,
You are sounding really good! Good luck to you with your new job. I know you will succeed.
Kansha, have been away for a week, but wanted to quickly stop by and say Way to go, grrrl!
Very happy to hear about the work prospects. Once you are involved with that fully, you'll see that h will fade from sight (to you) and may become more engaged.
You are speaking as one truly and fully detached now.
I've been layed up with a sprained ankle. It got so bad I finally just had to stay completely off it for 3 days. I think it is now on the mend. We're still in nail-biting mode here
. Tomorrow is the day where we should hear something back regarding H's contract. It will be a relief when the contract is signed and the check is cashed. No hormone sightings right now so all in all I'm doing okay.
Sting
!,
How are ya girl? I am excited about my business. I'm working on the business plan right now. It will take some perseverance on my part but I'm finally ready to take it on.
I do love to see you stop by!
Alex,
Quote:
You are speaking as one truly and fully detached now.
Ya know, I feel different. It's amazing how much more room for detachment there always is.
I was working on my business at the computer last week and every time H would come to talk to me I just was soooo preoccupied that I hardly realized he had come and gone.
I really do feel as if a new chapter is beginning. I just don't have the same passion to save my marriage. I'm not sure I have ANY passion to save my marriage. All my passion is now going into my new business. Of course my kids, I'm passionate about.
I would probably have never have gotten to this point if my H hadn't whined his way through the Retrouvaille post sessions. That was really the last straw. Of course your coaching gave me that little nudge I needed! Hugs to you and yours.
Kansha, you actually sound, for the first time, like someone who has a new lease on life, and is not troubled by any kind of domestic strife. Whew! Isn't it a wonderful feeling? I really threw myself into work once I got to the point where I figured I'd done enough worrying to last a lifetime, and the energy was better spent elsewhere.
Hi Kansha,
Just thought I would let you know that I was here. Have tried to read the majority of your postings and it seems to me that there are similarities in our H's.
Sounds like you are doing well though...other than the sprained ankle! I am hoping that I will progress (as you so successfully have done) and get rid of this awful pain that I am carrying around day in and day out.
Keep up the great work!
Take care and God Bless,
Kansha - How's that ankle? Snod hurt hers also. Ice out there in CA??
Give us an update!
Take Care!
Hi Kansha,
This is my first post outside of MLC (I think!)...just checking up on you.
Did you get the email I'd sent a day or so ago?
I hope all is well!
Love and hugs,
Helga (who's ankle is doing so much better -- down to a cane once in awhile, and a little ankle brace!)
Greetings from Ca:
I’ve been staying off the boards as much as possible lately, part of my new found focus on, “yours truly”.
Staying on the boards seemed to keep me in a certain mindset which, up until recently, was just what I needed. But now with my new found detachment, (I can’t believe I could even get any farther in that arena, but I remarkably have) I keep my focus off of my marriage and on myself and my future. (Of course my children are always part of that).
I feel pretty happy and contented these days. H and I are getting along better then ever but it is an "empty" (not quite the right word) kind of getting along because he still "lives" in his studio out back.
On Valentines day we went to my son’s friends birthday party at a karaoke place and I with a few other parents, enjoyed wine and good food. It was so fun. H was there too. As the other parents touched and connected I felt the lack of being able to reach out to H. Not because I didn’t want to but because he has not indicated in any real way that he wants to be approached in a physical way. Occasionally I will touch him on the back but only as I would a friend. He never touches me. He never was a touchy feely guy anyway and I was always way more physical. I’ve pretty much made my peace with this. I am not angry or asking God why? I accept that perhaps this is “IT”.
I’m not resigned either. I just don’t have any attention on it, as before I really did. For me a life without physical comfort and let’s be real, sex, was unthinkable. Now, I really have put that part of it in Gods hands at long, loooooonnnnngggggggg last. It doesn’t do much good for me to parcel out just which part of my life I am willing to give over to God. I’m thinking I’ve finally given it all over to Him. But then everytime I give it over to God I find, like detachment that ahhhh… there is still more to go.
I really can call myself a successful Dber. I feel good and my family is basically intact. My marriage... God is taking good care of it. I do not worry anymore one way or the other. I feel good and amazingly enough, I even had no problems through an "attack of the hormones". Yes, I know you are shocked but, not a single "injustice" roared it's ugly head with my monthly hormone wigging. Will wonders never cease? No, I don't believe they will.
Hugs to all my friends and all those who are in the middle of this craziness. Better days are a comin'. I promise.
Alex, I really do have a new lease on life and I’m REALLY NOT troubled by any domestic strife at all. It is amazing. I owe ya one hon! Thanks!
TC: Hi sweetie, please feel free to e-mail me anytime. I do get those much more quickly then posts to the DB these days. How are you?
Frosty, Finally my ankle is on the mend. Hah! Ice in CA, more like clutz in CA. LOL! I guess I’m going to have to look you up on your thread because I always want to know how you and the girls are, oh and maybe the mole in a sort of protective (of you girls, that is) kind of way. Hugs!
Hi Helga,
Kind of slow on responding to my e-mails. You are still in my prayers. I’m honored that you came over to visit me on my thread! Will write soon. I’m glad your ankle is doing better! Hugs and love to you as well!
Hooray to my fellow hormone queen! Seems I always have the problem during that time also. I know exactly why you're excited.
Glad the ankles on the mend. You are the MOST successful DB'er, and a Saint as we all know.
Take Care!
Hi All,
While I'm waiting for H to get ready (He's taking myself and S9 out to breakfast for my Birthday),
thought I'd stop in and bump up my thread and try learning how to link old threads.
Will post updates soon.
Here is a link to my previous thread:
Post Retrouvaille I love learning something new!
You all are still in my prayers, Hugs!
Kansha,
Tell about your new business
Have considered subsitute teacher, since you work only when you want and is school hours it is a win-win.
Hi Poe,
Actually, I have. Amazingly enough they are not hiring any new Subs until fall 2003. That would've been perfect for me. Did you know I was a former teacher?
I'm waiting to get my business off the ground a bit before I share much about it.
Nothing too exciting, but I get to put my creative urges to use a bit.
Thanks for dropping in. It's funny but I just read a post by you yesterday and remarked to myself that I had not read anything you had posted before.
Thanks for taking the time to post to me! I shall seek you out and see what you are up to.
My Birthday was quiet. H tried to make it a special day for me. He bought me several bouquets of flowers with the prompting of our S9 (what a love) and took S9 and myself out to breakfast and D17 condescended to go out to sushi dinner for another b-day treat. H and S9 then took me to borders to pick out 2 CD's. This was a very financially tight b-day so H went out of his way to try to make it nice and so I wouldn't feel the pinch.
My D prompted (I think) H to take me out to select the CD's but she's still a bit self-involved about doing anything herself. Though she did make a huge effort to be appreciative and pleasant. She tends towards prickliness usually. She has expressed a huge disappointment in me. I am an embarrassment to her; she has said that but not in so many words. Yes, I know much of this is Mother/teenage daughter dynamic. It's just that who she sees me, as is someone who has survived a war, who is shell-shocked. I am not the poster child for dynamic mothers. I am war weary and working my way out of the trenches. I've lost my pizzazz, my innocence, my flash. I'm now on the road to reinvention, so I'm okay with it. But, I feel sad that my daughter sees me as this dreary, always sick (depression, lots of cold's, foot problem, ankle problem, blah blah blah) do nothing mom. This is a fading image but a hard one to unstick from her mindset.
Do I sound victimy describing this to you? I'm trying to honestly describe a snap shot portrait of a highly sensitive, artistic, woman, whom found it incredibly hard to stay sane during my H's abandonment that coincided with a troubled and sick daughter. Personally, with my chart (astrological) full of water, I was ripe for falling into a drunken stupor of despair. It actually took me awhile to rise above that. I remember staying in bed for a solid week taking xanax and anything else, barely raising my head off the pillow. I only rallied because I finally realized that my reaction to my H was damaging my children. Rally I did! But, I wasn't super mom by any means. I went through the motions. You know: "fake it till you make it." But, I relished closing myself up in my room crawling beneath my comforter and pulling it up over my head.
I know that as she has children and matures she will be able to see it more holistically but to a child of visual sensibilities, I am not beauty personified. I am the self-sacrificing, wear my nightgown until there are too many holes, and cut my own hair variety so that she may go to the school of her choice. My watery chart is one of supporting those that I love. Of spiritual pursuits. This from me; a driven singer/songwriter of the 60's and 70's. A political radical. A listen to me sing and you will love me kind of gal. I dressed funky,spunky,cool, or bad, or hot or whatever word is being used to describe the edgy look of the day. To her I am faded, don't dye my hair often enough and those clothes, Mooooooommmm! This, in LA where Grandmother's look like teenagers and too thin trophy wives abound.
Ahh, I can go on. Just stream of consciousness here.
All in all, I did find myself feeling a bit weepy yesterday. Ya, know sometimes that P.T.S.D. still roars it's ugly head. I have also always tended towards depression and I realize that no matter what my life is like, I guess I always will.
Kids are now back at school. They were off for a week. That's a relief and I can now get back to focusing on my business, which did give me a sense of purpose.
For anyone who's interested, that was my 49th birthday. I can't believe it really. Who I am is someone very different from whom I thought I would be. I was pretty much a selfish, self-involved young women. I turned out so differently. I feel raked over the coals. Ravaged. Humbled.
You all are in my prayers
love, Kansha (which means gratitude in Japanese)
Kansha,
Happy Birthday to you!
Good luck with your business and hope it gets off the ground quickly!
HAPPY BD, KIDDO!
49 is YOUNG. You've got a whole lot more discovering to do, and just think you grew up, became humbled and learned a lot BEFORE it was too late. I say you've won something there.
That's how I feel, at least.
And before long, you will regain the pizzazz. That takes a bit of doing. My haggard look is finally gone (and I'm plumping up a bit too which has me a bit worried but not overly so.)
You have risen, and you will shine again, Kansha.
Quote:
Did you know I was a former teacher?
You mentioned it in a earlier post
Quote:
It's funny but I just read a post by you yesterday and remarked to myself that I had not read anything you had posted before.
It is too late for me, D Oct. 2003, DB too late. Will wait till she remarries. I am not willing to give up after 27 years. She is MLC big time. I post to help others, since I learned my lesson too late. She is still an alien, everytime we talk it is short...anytime we get near OR...she says she is HAPPY, and plans on marrying OM. I die each time so I don't get near it and just ACT AS IF I am her friend. It sucks but that is life.
Quote:
She has expressed a huge disappointment in me. I am an embarrassment to her; she has said that but not in so many words. Yes, I know much of this is Mother/teenage daughter dynamic.
From what I understand, kids need to begin there indepence so they can leave home, there are aliens and all you can do DB with them. They will return. My oldest did the same.
Hi kansha!
I hope that you and yours are still doing well! My best wishes to you for a happy Holiday season, and a great New Year ahead, my friend!
Hi Jamesjohn,
Nice to see you are still helping so many people! I am happier then I have ever been. Thanks for your good wishes, back at cha my friend!
Hugs,
Kansha
Yowee, Kansha, LONG TIME!!!
Oddly enough I was just thinking about you recently. How're you doing? What are you doing???
Alex N
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