He upgraded our meal to dinner & movie...now what?

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

I called my husband last weekend. He had previously invited me to join him for dinner, but he hadn't set up a day/time. This time he asked if we could get together this coming weekend. He asked what I wanted to do and he suggested Dinner and a Movie. He knows that's my favorite fun activity.

The only time I saw him since we separated (4 months ago) was for 10 minutes. Now he's suggested spending around 3 hours together for our first 'date'.

I'm thinking dark movie theater...maybe he'll reach for my hand!

When we used to go to movies together, we'd prop our feet up on the seats in front of us and our legs would touch. We'd often hold hands, or I'd just be resting my hand on his thigh.

I don't want to pressure him, but I also don't want to look like I don't want to touch him.

Any suggestions?

[Stephanep]

I'm thinking dark movie theater...maybe he'll reach for my hand!

You are expecting tooo much! Believe me, you'll only regret it. My advice is to got the movies and just be relaxed and happy. Show him you are alright and that you dont NEED him. (you may WANT him, but you dont need him). Take your cues from him...if he gets close and seems to want to take your hand...let him. But dont push things, NO pressure! be cool and enjoy yourself!

Steph

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Thinking that holding hands is going way to fast? I thought I was keeping my expectations low!

It's difficult to not get too excited and start hoping for lots of positive things.

Ok...slowing down another notch...expectations - none...PMA high.

[andrea]

Phoenix:
I dont know your h but in my case, in our firsts dates on reconciliaion time i think he was so guilty inside and afraid of a rejection from mine bacsue going so rapidly, that i can tell you we make love a month after that, when he finally get home again...!!... So, dont expect too much.. i think maybe this is better for both... take it slowly and enjoy... enjoy a lot

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hi all,

I did something that was a big 180 for me.

I hadn't heard back from H since that phone call last sunday. I had the feeling/fear that he was just asking me out on an outing to dinner/movie to butter me up so that when he asked for email detailing how much he owes on debt and how much he's paid...that I'd comply. Paronoid? I'm not sure.

Well, thurs I emailed him to tell him that I needed to take a rain-check on meeting as some unexpected expenses had come up and wiped out the money I had saved for our meeting.

This a) shows that I've taken responsibility of my financial situation

b) is a 180 because in the past I'd drop everything for him, overcome whatever problems for him...basically put him before myself because I didn't care about anything except being with him.

and c) I asked in the email for him to respond by next wed or I'd go ahead and make other plans...and that's a 180 because it shows I'm not waiting around for him but living my life.

So..this is a good thing for me to have done...but I keep getting anxious now. I'm hoping that the result will be that he'll see that I'm standing up for myself and he'll respect me more.

But I'm worried that since he only asked for meeting (I don't want to call it a date cause he's not called it that) when I called that he's waiting for me to contact him and taking a rest in the backseat leaving me driving..which would just be more of the same for us.

I hope this makes some sense!

Words of reassurance would be helpful...as well as advice. Anyone care to offer any?

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

I'm going to post a link to my first post as that contains my story and will hopefully provide some coherence.

my story

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hello again,

I spoke to H last night. He asked if he could call me at work to set up our meeting. I am thrilled. This is a long distance call for him. It also means that he wasn't just buttering me up to get me to email him info. I emailed the info he requested and he's still wanting to hang out with me.

I'm also thrilled because this means he's going to take the iniative to contact me.

Ok...so, now I have a question for everyone. When you and your spouse began the reconciliation process, did they act friendly and as though 'dating' was a natural place for your relationship to be? I've had the impression that for many people the spouse who had left was reluctant to begin this process.

Is it common for the Walk Away Spouse to be friendly and happy about having a 'date' with the Left Spouse? Particulary when it's the first 'date'?

I'd really like to hear from people on their first steps on this path.

Thanks and hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Well, We had our first date.

It went really well. He told me that he still loved me...he held my hands, he hugged me, he called me beautiful, he cried twice. He held doors open for me, he was very respectful. And he apologized for treating me badly.

Wow.

However, he said he doesn't want to go back to our marriage the way it used to be. And that he still doesn't know what he wants to do.

I assured him that I didn't want to go back to it either. That I want a new marriage with him.

But for someone who doesn't know whether he wants to continue our marriage, he sure said/did a lot of nice things.

He said that if he knew that we could improve our marriage and turn what was bad before into good times, then he'd want to try again.

I told him that out of respect for his needing space/time that I will wait for him to ask me out and to chase me. I told him that I'm afraid part of our problem is that I chased him, I asked him to marry me, and I suspected that he didn't really know what he wanted to do then, but because I was so strongly persuing him, he chose to marry me. I told him that I want to be sure that he's with me because he wants to be with me, not because I've chased after him.

He said he understood and then asked, teasingly, if this was really just a 'the guy should ask the girl on a date' thing or what.

I just repeated that I wanted to give him the time/space he needs, and not repeat the mistakes of the past.

The evening went really well. He was such a gentleman to me and I felt like a lady for the first time with him, in a long time.

And he told me that he misses cuddling with me.

So, I'm really up right now.

I know that I still have a lot of work to do. I need to keep focusing on making my positive changes more permanent and more habitual.

I intend to keep reading the boards and to keep posting.

Hugs and thanks for listening.

[Stephanep]

Now could be a good time to introduce sem good marriage counseling to the mix! Sometimes it is not the desire to get back together and making things work that is the problem, it is the "How do we do this?".

Way to go!

Steph

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hi Steph,

Thanks for replying to my post! That's a good idea. I'll see how our next date goes. He's always been resistant to counseling in the past, however, perhaps if I approach it as utilizing an objective person to help us make the transition, maybe he'll be willing.

Thanks and hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Well,

I'm feeling upset. My husband and I have continued to talk on the phone. Things are going really well. He's been calling me affectionate nicknames. He's flirted with me a bit.

However, he's looking for a job that is not in the city I'm living in. When I asked him what he wanted to do, in regards to our future, he said that he wanted to get a good job and start making money...and THEN work on our marriage.

I don't understand. Why would he not look for a good paying job in my town? He asked me if he landed a job making tons of money, if I'd quit my current job and come live with him. I told him I wouldn't be comfortable doing that. When he asked why, I told him that I won't ever feel comfortable depending on him for my financial security. He said he understood and that he can see that I'd be scared that he'd walk again.

And then the next phone conversation, he's looking for a job elsewhere.

Is he testing me?

I'm quite confused. Like I said, things have been going well, in fact in that last phone conversation he asked me to call him later on in the week. He wanted to hear from me again!!

We already live one hour's drive apart from each other. Won't this make the chance that our relationship will work out a lot worse?

My heart hurts.

[Stephanep]

Maybe financal security is something he feels he needs BEFORE returning to you. In order to take away a source of stress and anxiety? I think you did the right thing by telling him you do not want to be dependent of him! Good work, As for the job...wait and see before you panic. It may not even pan out. He may end up working closer to you! For the moment, concentrate on the good signs, LIKE BEING ASKED TO ELOPE BY YOUR HUSBAND . I mean come on! If that isnt a sign he is totally in love with you, I dont know what is!

Relax and see where this takes you!

Steph

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Well, all that worry and anxiety for nothing.

My husband told me that he was going to have a job interview wednesday, (yesterday). So, I sent him an email to tell him that I'd be thinking positive thoughts for him and that I knew he'd do well. Then this morning, I called to ask him how it went.

He said that he's playing phone tag with the guy and the guy STILL hasn't gotten back to him, so he hasn't had the interview yet.

Laf. Looks like you were right, Steph...no need for me to panic or worry. Sheesh!

I also have good news. The last time we spoke on the phone, not this morning but the time before, he told me, "I love you". That's the first time in 5 months!

He has said "You know I still love you, right?" But there's a huge difference between that and "I love you."

So, I gasped happily and said, "Oh, say it again, please!" and he did.

Slowlee Slowlee....

Hugs all.

[Stephanep]

So, I gasped happily and said, "Oh, say it again, please!" and he did.

Sounds pretty good! 5 Months ey! Good for you...I envy you..8 months and counting here. But I am doing good! All is good in you situation, you are right, take it slow, but you are in a good place and can perhaps (dont over do it here) start to dictate some terms, some way of being between you and your husband. By this I mean, start asking for what you want. This is what you did by asking him to "say it again", if you ask for what you want, you make it safe for him. You dont make assumptions, you have NO expectations!

Go back to the books...to "ask for what you want"...you can ask for closeness, tenderness, the "permission" to get closer. But accept and respect when he declines.

Am I making sens here?

Steph

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hey,

Yes, that does make sense.

I'm trying my best to stay focused on being his friend, so, I'm still having a difficult time late at night by myself in bed. I want my husband next to me, holding me...not in another city an hour away from me!!!

So, while things are going well, on the phone, I do still have my tears. One major change I'm trying to make habit is to focus on the good things and therefore keep my PMA up.

So, I'm trying really hard to stay focused on what I have, not what I want. And thereby put no pressure on him.

At this point, I WANT him to move to my town! I know he's got to know that...but there's a difference between him knowing it and me saying it.

So, is it time to start telling him things that I want? I think you are right, it is.

But, I'll start small. Perhaps on the phone when I call him today, I'll tell him that I'd love for him to call me Sunday night.

If that goes well, perhaps the next step will be to tell him that I want to see him at least once every two weeks. I'd love to have another date with him again, but am waiting for him to ask.

Thanks Steph, for listening.

Hugs all.

[Phoenix]

Why did you stop posting? How are things now?

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hi all,

Wow, I didn't realize anyone other that Steph actually read what I write. Thanks Phoenix.

Well, I stopped posting because I'm usually at school on the weekends. During the week I'm at work and can use the puter.

Plus, I got mad at my husband. I felt like giving up. I've been calling him just about every day to chat. I thought things were going well, he was being loving with me, flirting with me, etc.

However, he hadn't asked me for another date. And due to our past history, I know that he does (some) things deliberatley.

[He asked me at one point if I hadn't noticed that he hadn't signed our lease to renew our apartment for the new year. I told him that I thought he was just procrastinating as usual. He said that he was not doing it because he had planned to move out come the new year and find a new place to live. (Leaving me less than a week to find myself a place to live).]

He did keep asking me to call him again, and would tell me what hours he was at work so that I could call while he was there. So, on my end, I thought things were moving along and that I was simply doing what he asked me to do.

However, the past few times I've called, he's started asking (again) why I'm calling. So, when I've said, well you asked me to call you today, his latest response was, "Oh, I did? Well, I can't chat, I must go."

GRRR!!!

So, it seems that I've fallen back into being the hunter, even though he had asked me to call. I guess he was feeling cornered and pressured again.

So, I wrote him a really nasty email and got all my feelings out. And I sent the email to me, not him.

I re-read it today and deleted it without sending to him.
I know how he'd respond. He'd just get defensive.

So, while I'm not giving up...I'm going to back off.

I'll wait to hear from him. Wait for him to call me.

Previously I had stopped emailing him or calling him for a month and he asked me for a date when I did call him. And it was wonderful.

I am feeling conflicted because even though I'm going back to what has worked recently, I'm wondering if I'm going to have to be a weekend wife after all.

At one point he said that he'd rather only see me on the weekends. Not my idea of a marriage.

So, I have faith that DBing works, I've certainly gotten some really good results. However, I'm worried that our relationship won't ever progress to where he's happy living with me again and seeing me every day. He seems perfectly happy not seeing me for long spans of time.

I'm sure it's too soon to tell where I'm going to end up. But I feel as though the closer I get to him, the more I want to give to him, the more he distances himself.

This is who I am. I NEED to be able to be loving to those I love.

So, I guess the short answer to your question, Phoenix...is I'm feeling conflicted. I'm wondering if after all this, I'll ever have the white picket fence with a nice home and perhaps children some day (with him). Or if he is going to stay this way forever.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hi all again,

After cooling off a bit, I wanted to come back and post that I know that I won't be happy with myself if I give up on my relationship. I'll always wonder how things would have turned out if I had stayed patient.

I've gone back to doing what works. That and focusing on myself again, is I think the best I can do.

Only time will answer my questions about what the future holds for my relationship.

But I can focus on doing more of what works and keeping my PMA up and continue working on myself to make myself into the person I will love.

Hugs all and thanks for letting me vent.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Well,

I've done something that I've been saying I wanted to do, for a long time now.

I'm volunteering.

I have a need to share my gentle loving side and this is the way I've chosen to do it, that'll make me happy. Plus the receipients (sp?) will be happy to receive my time and efforts, unlike my husband who seemed to only be irritated by my efforts because he felt I was smothering him.

So, right now, I've taken steps to satisfy a major need that I have and I find that I'm feeling very detached from my husband. I'm feeling the same sort of things Steph has expressed on his thread.

I just want a vacation from the stress, worry and drama.

Hugs all.

[Phoenix]

With a username like that, I had to peek in you know?

First off I gotta say I'm hardly ever here anymore (which is a good thing). I think you have a pretty good grasp on what's going on with you and your R with your H. I also like your voice here.

This place is like feast or famine. The newcomers forum can move too swiftly sometimes and these specialty forums can inch along too slowly. I suggest to you that you may want to go to the newcomers forum and peek in on threads that catch your attention and jump in there til you find people with whom you click. Like making friends when you're the new kid in school. I think doing that really made my experience here so worthwhile.

I started an update thread in the hopefulness forum and JJ was kind enough to link up most of my old threads. You're welcome to read thru or not. Are there some similarities? Maybe basics. I think you may have your mind more together than I did.

I love that you're doing volunteer work now. That's pretty much a Michele approved technique. Your H may very well be fine with being away from you or not. Probably in the way you two learned to interact it could be expected. All I can say is try reading JJ (JamesJohn's) thread in newcomers about going dark - he has a green username. I think as you start really getting your game plan in motion and fill up your life, your H will probably realize that he actually misses you.

So good luck. Don't know when I'll stop back by but hang in there. Remember, just because people are afraid to type for whatever reason, it doesn't mean they're not reading and learning. We have a lot of lurkers. Take care!

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks for the words of encouragement and advice.

I shall go check out what JJ has to say about going dark. And I'm glad someone posted links to your story. I've enjoyed and learned tons from reading Andy's entire story and watching as things developed. That's the primary reason why I'm not posting a whole lot. I'm spending most of my time here reading other's stories (as far as their links to their past threads will allow) in the hopes of learning from their insights and looking at their map of this rollercoaster path.

Thanks for listening. From what I've seen on these boards, you have truly become the Phoenix. I'm still in training! Thank you for guiding me and others along this path.

Hugs.

[Stephanep]

So, I wrote him a really nasty email and got all my feelings out. And I sent the email to me, not him.

I re-read it today and deleted it without sending to him.
I know how he'd respond. He'd just get defensive.

Good girl! Remember, if your action will NOT bring you closer to your goal, dont do it!

Cant really chat, work and all

Steph

[andrea]

Phoenix in training:
Reading your post i can feel how strong and admirable are you... I want to say you are doing great... and yes, focus on you and detach... and remember not to be over react and to maintain independent and distray when he may come looking you after that detach...!!... This MLC men really doesnt act, but react... and when they feel so sure about us, they beguin playing with their minds and us...!!... Although my h is at home, it havent beeen easy at all... this is a long way and we just try to keep ficusion on us, trying to get the better things from all this crisis for us...!! (excuse my english, im spanish).... Good luck with that volunteer work and enjoy it a lot...!...

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Steph and Andrea,

Thank you for your praise and encouragement. I'm keeping on keepin on.

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Well,

I did an equivilant of the ol 'hug and run'. I called up my husband at his work. He said he'd just been thinking that he needed to call me. (Drat...if only I'd been able to hold out!)

I told him that I didn't have much time to talk as I was about to go out with my family to do some fun stuff. He asked what we were going to do and I remained evasive.

He excitedly told me about the little cat shack he had made for our cat.

We spoke for about 2 minutes. He DIDN'T ask why I was calling this time.

And then I said, "Can I call you later? I've gotta go."

He sounded disapointed.

I left him wanting more.

I did invite him for thanksgiving with my family. He's going to have to borrow someone's car, but he said he'd try to come.

We'll see if it happens and how it goes.



Hugs.

[Phoenix]

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Well,

I broke down. I know that part of DBing is stating what we want. Well, I did it in spades.

I called my husband yesterday and asked about Thanksgiving. He said he wouldn't make it. After more talk, the conversation ended with me crying and him sounding concerned.

I called him later that night. We had a long healthy conversation that consisted of more crying on my part and lots of calm talking on both our parts. And him really listening to me.

I told him that I wasn't trying to give him an ultimatum, but that after 6 months of separation and getting my life on track, I was reaching the end of my emotional rope. That I wasn't going to be able to continue in this fashion much longer.

I was worried that he'd think I was talking about doing something stupid, but he understood what I meant.

I explained while my life is really full, that I still think about him everyday. That this is like constant torture for me.

He said he had no idea. That he thought I had just put our relationship on the back burner.

He really listened to me. I told him that the alternative is divorce. He quietly said that that's a big step. I said, so is being separated for 6 months.

I don't think he'd thought that far ahead.

I told him about Divorce Busting. That book has plenty to keep him busy, if he does read it.

I didn't tell him about the BBoard. Don't want to give away all my resources!

I told him that I wanted him to move to my town and get a job and for us to start living together again.

He was very surprised that I'd be willing to move in with him. I told him I would, in a heartbeat. Afterall, we ARE married. He chuckled.

And he said today that he'd get online and start looking for a job in my town.

I'm an emotional wreck today.

But I know I did the right thing.

He now understands how I'm feeling. He's made the choice to move here. He really listened to me.

And while I'm exhausted right now..I suspect after a good nights sleep and seeing some effort on his part, that I'll get a second wind.

How's that for rapid progress?

Hugs all.

[Stephanep]

I called my husband... the conversation ended with me crying and him sounding concerned.

We had a long healthy conversation that consisted of more crying on my part...

I explained while my life is really full, that I still think about him everyday. That this is like constant torture for me.

Heard someone was looking for me ? Well, akthough the rest of your post seems good, and it seems like you are heading in the right direction, let me play Devil's Advocate for a while please.

Your calls, your crying, your asking (yes, I told you to ask for what you wanted...but I NEVER meant to go over board ) may have pressured him into agreeing with you on many points. I.E.: Moving to your town, looking for a job there, moving in with you. It sounds good (hell, it may very well be!!! ) but beware. In my experience, they tend to say, even do, things and later on backtrack at a hundred miles an hour. So be patient...and PLEASE dont get your expectations to far up. Prepare yourself for the possibility that all this may not happen. It will hurt if it doesn't, but if you half expect it to, it wont be devestating.

On the other hand...it may all happen as planned...in which case I will EAT MY WORDS!

Steph

[Phoenix]

Hey sweetie. Sounds great. You know, people will say the rights and wrongs of DB all they want but the bottom line is doing more of what works and less of what doesn't. I think the distinction here is this isn't a regularly scheduled cyclictic event. This is how all my big transitional moments have happened and I'd hazard a guess that's how quite a few progress.

Just some words from my experience. Feel free to take or leave whatever.

First (you already know this) - don't get all hung up on this cause most likely things won't fly back together happy happy like that. It usually takes more time and work - tho stranger things have happened.

Even if your guy doesn't read any of Michele's books, you can still work with him by example the basic concepts. IGgy (my h) has really managed to incorporate the general idea into his life and will even use some of the lingo occasionally.

Example - IGgy had a habit of using a phrase that just really cut me. I told him that every time he said it I was gonna kiss him. A good one too. He said "you're gonna kiss me for doing something you hate". Yep. And you wouldn't believe how fast it worked...and he hasn't really said it since.

You're doing great girl. Good luck on the continued success.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hi Steph,

Glad to see you are back!

Play Devil's advocate all you want...just don't turn into Keanu Reeves!

My crying. Yes, I'm concerned that in the long run that will backfire on me.

I'm afraid that you are right and I'll end up back in this spot in another year, hearing him say, "Well, you called me up all crying asking me to move to athens, I did it for you, not for me." Oy.

I'm not quite sure what to think about it, except that I NEEDED to cry this out with him hearing how hurt I was. This is sort of a 180 from the past few months. I have tried to make sure to always be upbeat and perky when talking to him on the phone. I will admit that I cried on our date...but he started it!!
He cried first!!

I've been thinking things over and I guess I should point to the positive signs that I had along the way that allowed me to have this outburst without completely fearing that he'd shut down.

The past few months when I'd get upset or sad, he would respond very quickly by calling me back whether I been upset on the phone or in an email. He'd comfort me.

He told me that he loved me.

He did say that he wanted to work on our marriage, but he wanted to get a job first.

He confessed his fear of having things return to the old way.

He said that he would be back with me in a heartbeat if he could figure out how to turn the bad into good.

So, I had all these little things to subconciously tell me that it might be ok to tell him how I was feeling.

However, I really was at the point where if he did respond badly, that I wouldn't be able to continue my efforts. So, in that sense, I felt that he had the right to know that I was getting to the 'point of no return.'

Make sense?

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hi Phoenix,

You are right. Him getting a job and moving to my town are big steps in themselves.

I've sent him tons of links with job listings and sent out feelers on the good 'ol boy network.

He thanked me for the oodles of information I sent him and he was very excited about one of them! And was intrigued about the others.

I also sent him housing information and he was very excited about how cheap living is here, compared to his city.

But the most exciting sign of all:

He was on AIM and saw my older brother was online. He sent my brother an IM asking if I'd been online recently. My brother responded back and then being the buttinsky that he is, he asked, "So are you getting divorced or staying married."

My husband responded, "Staying married. I'm moving to her town."



He doesn't like telling people anything until it's certain. Each time he told me that he wanted to separate, he insisted I wait and not tell anyone until we actually separated.

So, this is good!

Now, I am hoping he'll tell his family too...

I certainly plan on staying on this board, continuing to post and read.

I find that I have a difficult time figuring out what signs are signs. What techniques work. Etc.

I'm getting better at learning how to strategize. However, I know I have a long road of hard work ahead of me.

But I am very excited that we might begin living together and working on our relationship purposely.

I need to calm down and get a really good nights sleep. This roller coaster has turned into a loop de loop!

Hugs to you and Steph and all.

[andrea]

Im so glad for your situation... Enjoy a happy happy thanks giving day...!!

[Phoenix]

Hey PNT - how was the holiday? Good luck on what seems to be going on but I do have one big word of caution.

I got pretty concerned when you posted how much you did for him to help get him back to where you are. Been there; done that myself over the years. I'd love to see it if you'd learn to trust in his ability to do things himself as much as reasonable. Really, it's a good thing.

Guys may rely on being mommied but they resent it and rebel too. Plus we usually get mad and feel taken advantage of even when they never asked for it in the first place.

It may just be a good thing to keep in mind. Take care.

[Stephanep]

Guys may rely on being mommied but they resent it and rebel too. Plus we usually get mad and feel taken advantage of even when they never asked for it in the first place.

Ohhhhh BABY! Been there, done that too! One of the big sticky points with and MY wife!

Steph

BTW, HI PNT!

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hi ya'll,

Hope you had a great holiday.

Phoenix. You have a great point. That is something that is difficult for me to do. Stand back and let him do things in his own time.

I get afraid that if I don't 'remind' him that he'll 'forget' and not do it.

I need to stay focused on the idea that if he 'forgets' that's his choice. And I need to respect his right to make stupid choices. (Yes, I'm biased! )

To underscore your point, he hasn't called/emailed/contacted me in any way.

But I've had such a nice holiday with my brother and my niece that I still feel fulfilled.

Steph, this may also prove your point as well. He said the 'right' things when I was on the phone crying. But the lack of follow through shows that he wasn't sincere.

Ahh well. Time will tell what will happen.

I will trust and let go. Let Go and Trust.

Hugs all!

[Stephanep]

Steph, this may also prove your point as well. He said the 'right' things when I was on the phone crying. But the lack of follow through shows that he wasn't sincere.

Like us, they tend to do things that will help them, take some of the pressure of them. They run away, they detach, they say things and dont follow up, or they are nice to us only because it helps them in certain situations! Its about self preservation. We all do it. I dont think it was not sincere, just not in the way you expected it! You can not put expectations on anyone, let alone WAS'!

Steph

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

OK.

Expectations low. PMA high. Big breaths. Focus on taking care of me.

BABY STEPS!

Boy...staying focused on me is difficult for me. I'm so used to thinking about my relationship...and analyzing it...that I feel lost and look for other things to worry about.

Gee...wouldn't it be wonderful if I was constantly thinking of ways to pamper myself and my relationship with me...



Hugs Steph.

[Stephanep]

Gee...wouldn't it be wonderful if I was constantly thinking of ways to pamper myself and my relationship with me...

We worry so much about their moods, emotions, thoughts and well being that we put ours aside...time for a change! Think about you and only you...but be carefull, there are concequences: like happiness and well being and inner peace...oh yeah, and our walk away loved ones may also notice .

Steph

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Heh.

Thanks Steph.

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Called my husband today.

He was drunk. When we first started dating when he was drunk, he'd cuddle up close to me and whisper in my ear, "I love you". Of course I loved that. He kept saying it again and again. He'd tell me he loved me 20 times in an hour!

Heh.

Well, today I called him up and he was drunk. Said this was the first time that he's had a drink since we separated. That's really interesting because he was going out with the boys and drinking about once every week or every two weeks.

He got sweet with me on the phone. Called my baby and darling. He acted silly, burped loudly in my ear. I told him I thought I should call him back later....and he became all worried that I was angry.

I chuckled and told him that I wasn't angry...just grossed out!

He promised not to do that again.

Laugh.

In any case, I think this just underlines what people have been telling me and what I've been reading on these boards.

IF the walk away spouse wants to come back, then they will....BUT on their time table.

I guess I'm detaching from him. And I'll say to myself that I won't think about him anymore and then the next thing I know, I'm reaching for the phone to tell him about something funny I just read.

I don't take this to mean that he's a habit, I think it just shows how much I love him, despite what my mind says/rages.

I give up. I don't know how to strategize anymore. I plan/worry/fret/think myself to the point of going cross-eyed. and then find myself ignoring the plan and reaching for the phone to chat with him.

Obviously, I'm still on the rollercoaster, but it seems to be my mind that's a rollercoaster, not the relationship.

I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW!

Focus on me, keep my PMA up, get lots of sleep, drink lots of water and take my vits.

Hugs all.

[Phoenix]

Hi girl. Don't beat yourself up or think you're loco.

You are still careening to the extremes but you know that. It's hard to get away from that. Some things that worked for me were:

Elastic bracelets. When I started to obsess or analyze, SNAP. It got pretty painful but it worked.

I visualized a big stop sign when I caught my brain wandering. I'd also say (out loud sometimes) - Here we go again. Something like that.

You'll find that you're on sooner doing something like that before you start again. Set your goal - such as "I will learn to control my emotions better" and systematically do whatever you determine works for you to fulfil your goal.

Rejoice in the victories, regardles of their size. Learn from the "mistakes" and don't dwell on them.

You've got as much time as you choose. There's a lot more wiggle room than most of us think in our situations. Really.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hi Phoenix,

Those are some great suggestions. I'll try them all!

Hugs.

[Stephanep]

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

I had a second date with my husband last night. It went well. We ate at a yummy restaurant. He paid and was a gentleman. I was annoyed that he pulled up, still smoking a ciggarette. He put his arm around me while we walked into the restaurant! I was too busy being distracted by his arm to notice any lingering cigarette reek.

He asked me if I really would move in with him when he moved to my town. I said I would. I also told him that he'd have to give up smoking before I could though. I said I didn't want to be around when his monster emerged while he tried to quit. He chuckled and said he wouldn't put me through that.

I said that his cat would have to be an inside cat, because of safety and fleas. And that I wasn't going to clean up after him. He agreed to all that. (Asking for what I want/setting up boundaries).

He said he missed me and had been thinking about me a lot more often lately. He looked like he was going to tear up. I managed to not also tear up. I was confident and "on" the whole time. He seemed shy and unsure of himself. It almost seemed like he had forgotten that he was the one who wanted a separation! Weird.

So, the seesaw has tipped to becoming more balanced. I was disapointed that he's still not taking charge of his life. He keeps letting others set his goals for him, while he just takes a back seat and waits to see how events unravel.

I was also upset that he hasn't told anyone in his family that he's going to move to my town. He said he's going to wait until he finds a job here. Sigh. I'm a bit worried that that means he's not fully committed to the move.

I was also disapointed that he didn't invite me for his christmas holiday with his family. But I didn't say anything. Trying to keep low expectations.

However, he did say that his mom doesn't like me. Which is much better than before when he used to say that she did like me and that I was just being overly-sensitive. So, it's nice that he sees what I've been seeing, but still sad.

He was surprised that I asked for her email so that I could contact her. He said he didn't know why I would want to. I told him that as long as we are still married, she's part of my family, whether she likes me or not. I got the sense that he approved.

He said that he'd try to work Saturdays during the days so that we could spend time together sat nights. I'm in class in his town saturdays and sundays, and between my class schedule and his work shedule we get to see each other only about 1 hour on sunday night, currently. So, it's nice that he's going to try to change his schedule to see me. Which also means that he's thinking about future dates!

When I called him up to thank him for a date, he responded, Thank YOU! Last time, he had just said "you are welcome."

And he asked me to call him when I got home so that he'd know I was safe.

He said he loved me before he left and held me close. While he hugged me, he told me that I smelled good and nuzzled me a little bit. No kiss though. But, I'd so much rather have that hug than a kiss. It was WONDERFUL.

Baby steps.

All in all, we are going in the right direction.


Hugs all.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Well,

Yesterday was my birthday. I had a wonderful dinner with my parents, my siblings called me to wish me happy birthday. My in laws emailed me wishing me a happy birthday.

My Spouse....nothing.

Not a phone call, not an email.

My heart hurts.

I really want to give up right now.

I want to ream him out if he ever contacts me again.

I want to call him up and yell at him.

I want him to be here hugging me and comforting me for his thoughtlessness.

I don't know what to think.

I don't think that he did this maliciously because the last email I received from him, was signed 'Loveya'.

Right now, I think he's the most self-centered, selfish, emotionless guy I've ever known.

Grrrr.

Sob.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Retreating in pain.

That's what I'm doing. From the begining, I've called him or emailed him except for when I had first moved out. He had sent me two emails. One just to make sure I was ok, and one to resolve an issue he was having with the electric company.

Just recently, he had told me that he was thinking about me and that he missed me.

I had told him, if you'll remember that I was reaching the end of my rope and that he needed to move to my town and get a job for us to continue. He said he would.

I 'helped' him by finding all sorts of job openings in my town. Steph and Phoenix warned me that this might backfire on me. I expressed my concern that it might indeed backfire.

I found the perfect job for him. I'm working in a University and found a job for him with another department in the University. One of my former bosses works in that department, so I emailed both my old boss and my spouse. My former boss offered to look over my husband's resume and give him advice.

My husband promised to fax in his application on Monday. Friday I asked him if he'd heard back from either my former boss or the Human Resources department. He confessed that he hadn't bothered to send in his app.

I said, "Oh. Well, I better go now. I'll talk to you later."

He said, "Wait, are you mad?"

I told him I was, that I practically handed him a job and all he had to do was apply and he'd most likely have it. He said he was sorry, I was right and he'd apply right away, after giving me a lame excuse about not having enough time.

(Here I am working full time during the week, going to school on the weekend in his town, and making Christmas crafts for presents for everyone...and HE doesn't have time? Whenever I call him, he's always telling me about the great time he's having playing computer games.)

In any case, he emailed me and said he'd sent his resume to my former boss. And he signed it that he loved me.

Oh, and during my expressing my anger about him not applying to the job, I told him that it seemed that he didn't really want to work on our marriage. He said he did and that he was sorry.

So, then I'm irritated because he's talking sweetly but taking very little action.

And then my birthday comes and goes. No contact whatsoever from him.

Perhaps I moved to quick. Perhaps he's 'rebelling' against me. Perhaps he's just saying sweet things so that I'll shut up.

I don't know.

At this point, I don't care.

I'm going dark. Retreating in pain.

Funny thing about this is: My mother has always said that she tackles things head on. Yet, when she's been hurt, she retreats in pain too. She calls it, "Not wanting to intrude on someone's life. When they stop being mad, they'll contact her." Whatever....she's just retreating in pain too. A rose by any other name is still a rose.

Sigh.

Hugs all.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Oh, I think I need to clarify something.

When I was contacting him, I was doing a dance depending on his reactions. If I called him and he responded happily, then I'd call him within a day or two.

If I called him and he's respond rudely, I'd call him after 5 or 6 days had passed.

I would make sure to keep my end of the conversation light and up beat. I tried really hard to not question him about anything. Big 180 for me.

But I didn't want to go completely dark because whenever we were fighting, I'd retreat to another room. He hated it.

So, I was doing my best to do a 180 by doing a dance based on his reactions. Trying to not pressure him in anyway by calling too often.

He had told me that he wanted a separation because he felt like I was a always clinging to him (like a dirty t-shirt, to use ANS's analogy).

So, I thought I was dancing that fine line pretty well.

But perhaps what I was doing wasn't different enough. I think it was working because our interactions were becoming more and more positive on a regular basis.

For all I know, he doesn't even realize that he forgot my birthday and he thinks everything is hunky dory.

I don't know. I don't know if I made a mistake by 'helping' him too much with the job search. If I made a mistake about expressing my anger. Even though he asked if I was mad, maybe I shouldn't have answered.

I just don't know.

But right now, I don't want to talk to him. I'm afraid that if I did, I'd explode. Probably yelling and crying at the same time.

If anyone can be more objective than I, by all means speak up.

Again, hugs all.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Whew.

Ok...now after all that venting...getting all those emotions out, I think I'm ready to go home, take a hot bubble bath and have myself a good cry.

I suspect I'll feel better once I do so, rather than trying to bottle up my emotions like I've been trying to do for the past 2 days.

Thanks for listening.

Hugs all.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Well,

I do feel better. And I got in some good sweaty exercise and the endorphins kicked in. And I felt MUCH better.

I don't know why I keep forgetting that exercise is a big important thing I need to do. When I don't, my depression gets worse. I'm weaning off my depression meds with my doctors help. Taking it slow...but when I exercise, I'm so up it just seems to ridiculous that I could be depressed!

For me, I'm just a happier content person when I exercise.

As for my husband, I can't do anything about him or the situation. But I can take care of me. And I'm through being unhappy.

With or without him, I'll grow happier every day.

[Phoenix]

Heya girly. Quite interesting reading here. What you said about endorphines reminds me of Elle in Legally Blonde.

"Exercising gives you endorphines. Endorphines make you feel good. People who feel good just don't kill each other."

Anyway, I know things are still rough for you but I admire the way you're working through your cycle. Merry Christmas hon and God Bless ya.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hiya Phoenix!

Thanks for your words of encouragement.

I ended up calling my husband on the 23rd. He said, "Hey" like he would to a buddy and then said "Hey" again with a lot of warmth and happiness when he realized it was me.

He didn't mention my birthday, but the first words out of his mouth were..."I got you a Christmas present." Apparently he's made me something. I don't know what it could be, but whatever he's made is a treasure. He's never made me anything before.

He and I have talked a couple of times before he left for the holiday week with his family. Each and every time he said that he loves me before we hung up.

He talked like he's committed to our marriage again. Gone are the words about not wanting to give me false hope or not knowing what he wants.

So, I guess I'm pretty confused. He apparently didn't even realize that he missed my birthday. He's still talking pretty to me. I plan on waiting and seeing what actions he takes as far moving to my town and getting a job here, now that the holidays are over. I haven't heard from him since the 25th, since he's been out of town with his family. I think he's back in his town today, but I'm not sure. I don't remember what day he said he'd be back.

However, the biggest thing is that I've been worried about how I'd make it through the holidays since Christmas day last year, he told me that he wanted out of our marriage and I landed myself in the hospital for doing something stupid. And I have to say, I'm in a much better frame of mind, I've conquered my depression. (Not that I'm not scared of backsliding..but I really have conquered it!) I've lost 40 pounds and am back on my diet, back on track with my finances.

I've come such a long way since Christmas last year. I had a pleasant holiday season without my husband by my side. I've decreased my zoloft prescription again...only 3 more steps and I'll be drug free! Woo hoo!

Of course, to compensate, I'm making sure to do more of what works...exercise and taking flax oil pills...I've noticed a definite improvement in my feeling of well being when I take the recommended daily dose of these essential fatty acids.

I realize that I need to continue to focus on improving my life and my health, physical, mental and spiritual. I need to keep doing the things that contribute to my overall feeling of well-being.

I am still putting too much focus on my relationship with my husband.

My new years resolution:

To continue to increase my focus on myself and the positive changes I'm making in my life.

To achieve my weight loss goal by continuing to lose from 1 to 2 pounds a week.

To continue to decrease my Zoloft prescription (with Doctors assistance of course!) by 25 mcg (or whatever the dosage abbreviation is )

To exercise at least 4 times a week for at least 20 min.

Hugs all!

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Spoke to my husband today. He received the present I had made for him. And he talked about the presents I had made for his brothers. I had been so nervous because I was making a bunch of guys a home made present each. But apparently the presents were a big hit!

I made a small sign for each of them with their name and a small picture. Apparently the soccer ball was the favorite of all.

So, I'm really happy about that.

The other good thing is half way into our conversation, my husband said "I love you" in his goofy, mushy, sweet voice. This wasn't even a goodbye "I love you" but just a spontaneous one.

How cool is that?

Now if only he'd hurry up, get a new job and move to my town so that we can live together again.

Heh.

Hugs all.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Welp,

I called him as I was leaving work yesterday. He sounded like an alien. I asked him if he wanted to get together over the weekend and he said that he wanted to just hide from the entire world.

Him telling me that is a first.

I asked him what was wrong and he said that he hadn't had a moment to himself in the past 2 weeks.

I said, "Well, do what you gotta do." And I was matter of fact, not whining.

He then responded, "Well, maybe, we'll see, maybe I'm just in a bad mood right now."

So, different response from me DID lead to a different response from him.

So that part was good.

However, I'm afraid that his alien reared it's ugly head because I called him that third time.

I know why I do it. If we have a good conversation and he talks to me lovingly, I want more. Who wouldn't? But in coming back for more, I put pressure on him. He feels like I'm demanding his attention, which, I am. And I've already seen the best results when I don't ask him for ANYTHING.

So, calling him more than once translates to asking him. Therefore, I'll try to only call him once a week, thurs mornings. That way, he knows when I'm calling. I set up a stable routine and perhaps by making my call predictable, I'll relieve some of that pressure. And that way, I can keep myself from calling too much by knowing that I will call him and when. It'll give me something to look forward to.

I'll see how that works. Course, since it's only once a week, it'll take a while to find out the results.

Anyone else tried this? What were the results? Was this stability good?

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Welp,

That resolutation lasted all of 2 hours.

I called up my husband again to ask him about our tax returns for the past 2 years...

We talked about that, he was being sweet with me again...alien vanished.

I asked him if he had told anyone in his family that we were getting back together. He said he hadn't and that he wanted to wait until he was actually moving to my town. Oh, and he said he had looked at some jobs in my town and applied for them. Woo hoo!!!

Ok, so he said he wanted to be moving to my town before telling his family because he dreads hearing his mother lecture. He said that he doesn't know why she doesn't like me, but that he justs has a feeling that she'll be against our getting back together.

I asked if that would create problems in our relationship, would he feel like I was causing problems. He said not to worry about that. That he knows this is her problem/issue but his choice and his life.

So, that's cool.

And we have a date this weekend.

I told him to figure out what he wanted us to do.

I'm excited!

Giggle.

Hugs all.

[KAW]

Hi PnT,

I do like your approach going about trying to find the 180's that will work to draw you closer. Very creative and looking for all the different variations of a 180. I have no doubt you will find the right combination.

'til later,
KAW

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hiya KAW,

Thanks!

Well, I had an epiphany this weekend.

My husband and I had a date scheduled for Sunday. It didn't happen because he wanted to use Sunday as his catch up day from the holidays. Basically doing laundry and other mundane but neccesary things.

Well, my feelings were hurt. I felt like I should come first, ahead of such mundane everyday things.

But, as I thought about it, I realized that I had slacked off on doing those little chores. And that I had started daydreaming about where our relationship was going and letting all other areas of my life fall by the wayside.

And this has been something that has cropped up over and over again in my relationship. And I believe it would be my problem no matter whom I'm with.

From what I can tell, when things are going well in my relationship with my husband, I begin daydreaming. I get so happy, that I stop doing the chores I know I need to do to maintain my PMA. Waking up every day and making up my bed first thing is a little chore, but it gives me a high PMA.

Well, when I stop doing those little things, I start resenting my husband because I've put him first, why doesn't he put me first. However, objectively, I'm a much happier person and a better friend when I work first, play later.

The problem for me, is that I am afraid that I need a little bit of pain to help me stay on track. It seems like only when our relationship is going through a rough patch do I remember to focus on doing the chores that boost my PMA and help my life run smoothly.

Now, ideally, I want to have the best relationship I can and the best life I can. And I know I can have both.

I need to figure out how to maintain my focus on my day to day life when my relationship is going well.

There are lots of little things that boost my PMA. I like working on small Plastic Canvas projects. I feel great when I'm finished, I feel accomplished. And these little projects make great gifts and so, I'm happy also because I've made someone else happy.

My PMA takes a huge jump when I do some form of exercise in the morning.

When I focus on my school work and improving my work at my job, my PMA stays high.

So, I have plenty of things to focus on.

Now, I have to figure out how to stay focused on these when I want to start daydreaming.

In order to have the best relationship with my husband that I can, I need to focus on these other things as well. By focusing on these other areas of my life, I give my husband the gift of a happy, positive wife.

So, now I think I know what the problem is.



Hugs all.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hi again, Kaw!

I've been thinking about what you said. It seems like you are saying that the 180 thing is a matter of trying different things and observing what works. And then to keep doing that. And then to keep adding on other things that work.

I guess this is something that I've not really thought about conciously. This is a process, and I'm looking for a combination of things that work , rather than the 'one' thing. When I hit the right combination the vault will open.

Thanks, I feel like I have a bit more clarity.

Hugs!

[KAW]

I need to figure out how to maintain my focus on my day to day life when my relationship is going well.

The essence of DBing is to develop an awareness foremost in your mind to do basically just what you said. So what I find that works, is when I wake up each morning is to ask, "Self, what can I do to make today better than yesterday?" (Please excuse the cheap Emeril impersonation) ... to which you can answer, "To jumpstart my PMA." Of coarse, the next question that follows is, "What can I do today to jumpstart my PMA?" The answer to which will give you your objective for the day to focus on.

I've been thinking about what you said. It seems like you are saying that the 180 thing is a matter of trying different things and observing what works. And then to keep doing that. And then to keep adding on other things that work.

I guess this is something that I've not really thought about conciously. This is a process, and I'm looking for a combination of things that work , rather than the 'one' thing. When I hit the right combination the vault will open.

That's the gist of it ... The purpose of the 180 is to stop doing what pulls you apart and to find what draws you together. It is easier to identify what hasn't worked during the duration of the M, and start doing the opposite to break the pattern. After achieve this, then it is a matter of finding new things you weren't doing before that work to draw you together and doing more of it. The more you find that works, the more you strengthen the bond between you.

'til later,
KAW

[BRIDGET]

Dropping by to say hi and happy new year.

I'm impressed -- you've really caught on to "what works"
and are making it happen. Wow. I am jazzed by your attitude.

It's all true for me, too. Take to heart the natural, casual ILYs.
Yesterday my H teased me for being lazy -- like he'd taunt a buddy --
and I gave him some sass back -- like I'd sass my girlfriend -- and
for the first time we didn't tense up and mis-react. We lounged
some more. We've both been revelling in our recovery.

I'm glad "it is written" (DB, DR and marriagebuilders.com)
that spending time together is primary. We've always
been happier when we take a chunk of time every day
to just hang out.

Of course, how do you manage this and also _______ fill in blank?
(care for family/work/shop/clean/socialize/learn/direct the movie/dance...)

I'm deeply amazed and grateful my R with my H is recovering.
And I'm so happy for you and your H, as well!

It's cool-as-a-moose to be able to build "a new R" on a 17-year history
of connection and shared life, rather than to have to start over,
broken.

Will keep listening in for more great news & inspiration from you.

Cheers,

Bridget




when you

I love reading your posts here, they are resonating with me.

I had worries similar to yours about the holidays (last year estranged)
but with discipline and giving each other the benefit of the doubt
we did fine.

I'm also having breakthroughs similar to yours (winky smiley face here).
You wrote beautifully about how you can help your own PMA with activities.
I'm writing (in lipstick on my big mirror) "jump up and dance, grrrlll!"
so I remember to also get more exercise.

I think just hitting the "refresh" button on the year offers me
a chance to clean the screen to work with.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

KAW, Bridget,

Thanks for stopping by.

Driving into work today, I had another thought.

Something that happens with my husband and I alot.

And it causes great strain.

I'll ask him to do something. He'll say, "No," and give me some excuse that in essence says I'd do it, but I can't because of this...but I really WANT to do it. Whatever the it is at the time.

So, then I, believing that he does really want to do it, do what I can to make it happen despite the obstacles in his path.

And then of course, he gets mad because he feels like I'm pressuring him when he clearly said, No.

Well, it finally hit me yesterday. I have a friend who handles things this way. What she really means is, "Flat out, no way, not going to happen, but I don't wanna hurt your feelings."

It didn't occur to me until yesterday that my husband of all people would be being polite with me.

But, that must be what he's doing, because otherwise, the situation doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

He'll ask me why when he said no, clearly, that I keep pressuring him. From my end, I didn't think he'd said no, but rather I'd love to, but I have these obstacles.

I guess what might have helped me realize this earlier, is if I could figure out a way to overcome those obstacles, then so could he. And the fact that he wasn't, meant that they were't really obstacles, but just handy excuses.

I guess the fog is clearing in my brain, cause I finally realized that this is what is happening.

So, now I need to know/remember that when he says no, whatever comes after that no, to ignore and to focus on the no.

I hope doing this will help smooth our recovery!

Thanks ya'll for listening.

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

He called me at work yesterday.

He said, "Now you can't say I NEVER call you!"

Giggle.

I told him that he made my whole day.

And I called him last night before bedtime and thanked him again.

[Phoenix]

You have a great typing style . You oughta write a book. Really, I'd read it!

As for the rest, keep being you but only say/do about 1/4 of what your impulses tell you to do. Get out the rubberbands to remind ya . Take care and continued good luck!

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hiya Phoenix,

Thanks for dropping by. I've always aspired to write books for children. I have 2 that I have started...perhaps I'll try to complete one!

As for the doing 1/4 of what my impulses tell me...well, I've erased his phone numbers from my cell phone so that if I want to call him, I have to look up the numbers.

That should slow me down long enough to remind me why I erased them.

Well, the last time I spoke to him, he said that he'd try to take saturday off from work because he wanted to spend some time with me.

Well, I called his work and they said that he was off until monday. However, he didn't show up for our date, didn't call/email me. So, he got the time off, but chose to spend it other than with me.

I have to keep reminding myself that I SHOULDN'T be number one for him, only person that should put me first is me. And I shouldn't put him first, but rather should be putting me first.

I know...a lot of shoulds in that statement...but this is something I'm still struggling with. That it's necessary to put me first so that I can have good relationships with others without expecting that they'll put me first. It's not their job, it's mine.

Still, my feelings are hurt. He's saying one thing and doing something else.

So, if nothing else, it's my signal to back off again. To go back to not calling him...but letting him come to me in his own time.

Man that's sooooo hard for me to do. But, that's why it's a 180 for me.

And to complicate things, I'm noticing some side effects in my weaning off of zoloft.

For one thing, the 'trails' are back. When I wave my hand in front of my face, Instead of only seeing my hand move in a steady flowing motion, I see what looks like my hand moving in a strobe light.

Also, the other day, I didn't take my flax seed oil or my vitamin B's and I got that depressed/black cloud feeling again.

I asked a friend of mine who is also weaning off of zoloft if she had anything. And she did...something called "Positive Thoughts". It had some vitamins and some St. John's wort, which I know I'm not supposed to take with Zoloft. But I took it and I felt better. Still, I felt like a junkie begging for my fix.

So, with this going on, it's probably for the best that I go a bit dark. At least until my emotions stabilize again. I had moved from 100 mcg's of zoloft down to 75 about two weeks ago, but now the side effects are showing up. Bleh.

Well, that's probably more than ya'll wanted to hear about Zoloft. I guess I'm just journaling. But if you are still reading, thanks for being patient!

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Well,

My husband called me at work the other day.

He said he wanted to apologize profusely. That he didn't stand me up, that he was at work.

He called me, "my love" which is my favorite nickname.

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Oh,

And I've been sick the past 2 days. The horrible 24 hour flu. BAD BAD BAD.

So, I've had to wash everything, including his favorite pillow that I haven't washed for 7 months because it smelled like him.

I'm sad.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hi all,

This past Saturday, my husband and I had a 3 hour date. Seems like 3 hours lasted soooo long.

I felt so satisfied afterwards. He took me out to a good restaurant. We had a bit of a serious relationship talk. He said he knew that he loves me, but still doesn't know whether he wants to take the risk of getting back together with me. He said half of him wants to take off somewhere, like Hawaii and become a beach bum. The other half wants to give our marriage another shot. He said he's afraid that whatever he ends up chosing will be a choice that he regrets.

So, he's stuck.

And he admitted that he's not made very much effort at moving to my town.

Well, I got sad. And I said, well, in that case, just go ahead and move ahead with the divorce. I don't want you in my life unless you WANT to be here.

He left the table for a second to go to the bathroom. That allowed me to refocus.

I put it aside and tried to get back into good PMA and friend mode.

He took me to a book store for the remainder of our date.

I told him that I wanted to show him the Michele books. All they had was 'Change your life'. So, we grabbed that and sat down to talk.

He really listened to me. He reached out to me several times to stroke my arm. He looked me in the eye a lot. And not once did he do the usual, I'm bored, why are you talking me to death, act.

I told him that I didn't think that he needed to make a decision. That if he would just committ to moving to my town, then, live with me for a bit, he'd be able to make a decision. He'd quickly see that our marriage is save-able. I told him the reason I thought we could do it is because these problems aren't unique to us. And I gave him many funny examples from Michele's book that applied to us. He and I were talking lightheartedly and laughing about our problems.

I did very well in not laying blame on either of us, but rather in showing him how our actions were actually a circle, when he does this, I do that...but when I do that, he does this.

He really understood. And I think he was really relieved to see that these are common issues.

We had a very intense, but light hearted talk.

He asked many questions.

And at the end of the conversation, he asked me to be patient with him for 6 more months. To allow him 6 more months to get a job and move to my town before giving up on our relationship.

I told him that I could do that.

I called him up 2 days after our date. I told him that I'd been floating for the past 2 days because I felt like he really heard me and understood me. He sounded so warm and happy and said that he was glad he'd made me feel that way.

And when he found out it was me on the phone, he went beyond his usual happy greeting to a really warm greeting.

AND he kissed me on the head.

Progress!!

Now, if only he could find his way to my lips! But it's probably good that he hasn't. It's been 7 months and I'm not sure I could control myself if he gave me a real kiss.

As for me, I'm up early this morning because I just finished doing 30 minutes of Yoga. I'm sore too...

Heh.

Hugs all!

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

I read on this board, somewhere to only call the Walk Away Spouse one time for every 4 times they call you.

I'm going to give that a shot. I think having a set formula like that will help me out.

Hugs.

[Phoenix]

I think you're getting it. And yeah, having something set helps a lot, especially when you're still trying to learn new behaviors and get thru the icky parts.

All in all you sound pretty good. Like you're starting to balance out a bit. Just remember, it takes time girl. You're ok.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hiya Phoenix!

Thank you for your continued encouragement!

I'm begining to detach.

Ever since my date with my husband, I've felt less need to call/email him. I think it's because I feel like I've argued my case and that it's out of my hands now.

Also, since he asked me for 6 months without my giving up on the relationship, I feel like I don't need to make a decision.

I do find myself thinking about him and what the future will be. But I catch myself when I do, and focus on something else.

I have to say that I'm a little sad that I'm detaching. It's like I've been keeping our relationship alive in my head. And now, I'm letting it go...and unfortunately, as I let it go, I'm realizing more and more that we really don't have a relationship.

Sure, he's happy to hear from me when I call. But, we talk for maybe 10 minutes when I do call. And that 10 minutes has been dwindling to only once a week.

He really doesn't know what my life is like anymore. And I certainly don't know anything about his.

So, as I detach I find that I'm a bit sad.

Is this normal?

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

My husband called me this morning.

He said he just wanted to say Hi.

We had a nice chat.

It never fails...even when I find myself racking my brain, trying to figure out WHY I love this man...he calls and I just hear the sound of his voice and I start grinning and feeling all warm and fuzzy.

He doesn't even have to say anything specific...just hearing his voice full of warmth does it for me.

Well, perhaps I'm over analyzing. I can list things that I like about him. And I can list things that I don't like about him. But in the end, that list goes out the window, just when I hear his voice.



Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

I also wanted to say that I've been very good about not calling, contacting him. Now, I've had a few urges to reach for the phone and call. My thinking is, "Gee, it won't hurt anything to just say Hi." and "I'm his wife, don't I have the RIGHT to call?"

But, I've been keeping in mind my goal. Which is to have a relationship with someone who WANTS to be with me. And the only way we'll ever know if my husband wants to be with me, is if I allow him to make that decision on his own.

And each time he calls/contacts me, that will reaffirm for both of us that he's doing what he WANTS to do.

And that's a good thing.

Where as, if I continue to call/contact him, then I'll always wonder if he's with me, just because I kept getting in his face, and nothing else came along.

And if I were to do that, I KNOW I'd just end up here again.

So, while it's been tough to not call him when those urges arise...it IS getting easier.

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Oh,

And what else helps me fight off the urge to call. I remind myself that I don't want to make him feel that I'm 'Clinging to him like a dirty tshirt'.

Gross image. Really effective.



Hugs.

[jethro]

Hey PNT, just read up on your sitch. I don't have a whole lot to add, but your efforts are admirable. I tried clicking on your link to your previous thread and it was a bad link. I was curious as to what led you guys to S. Any other revelations about 180s you could do to "engage" your H a bit more?

BTW, thanks for coming by my thread.

jethro

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

I tried clicking on your link to your previous thread and it was a bad link. I was curious as to what led you guys to S.

Hiya Jethro,

Maybe this will work.



http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/favlinker.php?Cat=&Entry=3345&F_Board=UBB40&Thread=353682&partnumber=&postmarker=

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Any other revelations about 180s you could do to "engage" your H a bit more?

Ok...at this point, no, I don't really have any ideas.

You see, I see him so rarely and talk to him (lately) only when he calls. So, in that limited amount of time, I feel I should be as upbeat and positive and energetic as I can.

I've had my say as far as our relationship, and if I were to continue to talk about it, then I think it'd be perceived as more of the same and besides, talking isn't his favorite thing to do.

On the other hand, I've put in a request to my library for the 5 love languages book.

And I'm still reading here as much as I can.

Today, I went and found all of Lily's threads that I could and have them marked as favorites so that I can follow her journey.

I find it helpful to follow other's paths, rather than just bits and pieces.

Also, I'm trying to stick to being disciplined with my diet and my finances. I KNOW the better I look, the more attention he'll give me. And that will just boost my PMA. But mostly, I just want to FEEL good in my own body.

So, any other ideas on what I can do?

Thanks for stopping by Jethro!

Hugs.

[KAW]

From: Emerald City is Great!, but its still not Kansas..

Also, I find that taking my Omega 3, 6, and 9 really helps my moods.

Been keeping kinda low profile latey, but was wondering if you would give more info on this. Are they a supplement? What is each number suppose to reference? Thanks.

'til later,
KAW

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hiya KAW,

I'm not sure what the difference is between 3 6 and 9. But I seem to feel better when I am taking all 3. But as far as I know, they are all found in fish oils and flax oils. They are essential fatty acids that our bodies can't reproduce which is why we need to take them as supplements. Or eat a lot of fish/flax!

I'll see if I can do some research when I get home, and I'll try to give you a better answer tommorow.

Been missing you KAW.

Hugs.

[jethro]

Hey PNT.

So, any other ideas on what I can do?

Not really. I think you gauging your telephone calls is good. You seem to have a better understanding of how many, or how few, calls to make to get his attention in the right way.

Clearly staying on a path of self-improvement has done wonders for you. I can imagine how difficult it is to try and DB when there's no "real" reason for your H to be around. For me, I have my W at home because we have kids. Even if she wasn't at home, I'd see her frequently because of the kids. Naturally, each visit is an opportunity to DB.

Have you considered going and seeing him? It seems like he comes to see you all of the time (or am I reading this incorrectly?). What if you made a visit out where he is because you have some "errands" to run or something? I know you don't want to pursue too hard, so I'm not sure you'd want to do this. Also, is there anything in particular he's said to you in the past that he likes that you could do when you see him? For example, a favorite outfit, a particular perfume, some home baked brownies, etc. I would think that without coming on too strong, the few times you do see him, you have to remind him of the positive things in your R in the past...those things he's always liked.

What are his hobbies? Does he have a particular interest in something you know little about? Maybe research it, so when you talk to him on the phone you have something in common to talk about...that will draw him closer.

I'm just throwing things out there, PNT, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.

Take care.

jethro

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Clearly staying on a path of self-improvement has done wonders for you. I can imagine how difficult it is to try and DB when there's no "real" reason for your H to be around.

Exactly! That's why I've been so impatient to get him to move to my town so that I can really begin DBing.

Have you considered going and seeing him? It seems like he comes to see you all of the time (or am I reading this incorrectly?). What if you made a visit out where he is because you have some "errands" to run or something? I know you don't want to pursue too hard, so I'm not sure you'd want to do this.

Actually, I have classes I take in his town on the weekends. So, when we've had a date, he meets me at my school, which is only 20-30 minutes from him. I've driven an hour to get from my house to the school.

Because I'm working full time and in school on the weekends, my time is limited. That's why I was so excited about our 3 hour date!

So, I'm trying really hard to not pop over and surprise him for a total of 10 minutes time visiting. He's worth it...but I'd like to get more time for that amount of effort.

Also, is there anything in particular he's said to you in the past that he likes that you could do when you see him? For example, a favorite outfit, a particular perfume, some home baked brownies, etc. I would think that without coming on too strong, the few times you do see him, you have to remind him of the positive things in your R in the past...those things he's always liked.

I have worn his favorite perfume on our dates. He's commented that I smell good. Giggle.

What are his hobbies? Does he have a particular interest in something you know little about? Maybe research it, so when you talk to him on the phone you have something in common to talk about...that will draw him closer.

Well, that's a great idea. He and I used to love to play EverQuest together. Unfortunately, I can't do that, but, I could take golf or tennis lessons, when it starts getting warmer.

I'm just throwing things out there, PNT, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.

Jethro, these are all great suggestions. Thank you. I'll start researching and saving up for tennis and golf lessons. In the meantime, I can practice playing pool...that is something that he loved doing. And I have a pool table right at home to practice on! It'd be so great to kick his butt in a game of pool!

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

KAW,

According to my copy of "Prescription for Nutritional Healing" Omega 3 has "alpha-linoleic and eicosapentaenoic acid" and "are found in fresh deepwater fish" etc.

Omega 6 has linolenic and gamma-linolenic acids and found primarily in nuts etc.

The book didn't say anything about Omega 9, but I'm sure it's important.

I'm taking Flaxseed Oil and it's apparently a good source for B vitamins, proteins, zinc, magnesium, potassium and fiber.

Any herb shop will probably have fish oil or flaxseed oil supplements and can tell you more about them.

I hope this helps!

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

I swiped this from one of Lily's threads. I hope she doesn't mind, but I wanted to repost it on mine.

"The being in love part comes and goes throughout the marriage. We just have to learn that when it goes we have to find it within ourselves to make it come back. It is not the other person's fault, it is usually what is going on inside of ourselves that makes us feel that way."---source unknown.

Thanks Lily.

Great thing to keep in mind.

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Another Lily swiping...but this time the poster on her thread was ANS.

He says:

I read a book about depression where the author (an SBT therapist) says that your self-talk can keep you in depression. Act/think as-if things are all wrong, and you stay depressed. Act and force yourself to think as if things are OK, and you'll come out of your depression (of course, it usually takes meds, too, but you get the idea).
**********************************************************

This is something I need to keep in mind. When my bad moods start coming on, and I begin to feel that black cloud creeping in, I need to pop in my mental tape that says, "Everything is ok. Everything is in fact getting better."

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

I was picking the dead leaves off of Shelley, my plant. Yes, I'm weird, I named my office plant.

Anyway, I was tugging on one particularly stubborn dead leaf and the whole plant came out of the pot. She had roots, but they were fragile and weren't planted deep enough.

I'm so sorry for doing that to her...I was just trying to clear away the dead leaves. But she still has some roots. So, I've replanted her deeper into the soil, with the soil bunched up around her to give her some support. And I watered her.

She's not a flowering plant, but I hope someday she'll 'bloom' again.

It occured to me that my situation is similar to what just happened with Shelley.

My roots weren't deep enough and were too fragile. However, I've replanted myself and surrounded myself with support.

Perhaps someday, I too will bloom again.

Hugs.

[lostlove]

I love analogies, so much so that sometimes I think I annoy people with them. I knew just where you were going as I started reading this one.

I'm sure you will bloom again, in-fact I think I see a bud or two already!!

LL

[jethro]

It occured to me that my situation is similar to what just happened with Shelley.

That's a sweet analogy, PNT. One that strikes a chord in many of us I think...

jethro

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

LL, Jethro,

Thanks.

Blush.

Giggle.

Hugs.

[KAW]

Good day PnT,

Thanks for the info on the Omega supplements. I'll look into it further.

Perhaps someday, I too will bloom again.

Keep reaching for the sunshine...



'til later,
KAW

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

KAW,

Anytime, I hope the info helps!

Thanks for dropping by and for your kind encouragement!

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Oh Dear,

I've been so excited and focused on weaning off of Zoloft, I forgot about one 'benefit' of being on Zoloft while separated from my husband.

Low Libido.

Now, my libido seems to be reasserting itself to normal.

I'm having really powerful dreams.

He better hurry up and move to my town.

I'm afraid I'm turning into a sex crazed maniac wild woman.

Not that I'd ever do anything but take cold showers and stay perpetually frustrated!

Laf...I'm just saying I hope he hurries!

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hmm...

I think my best solution will be to harness this 'energy' and use it to help me get into the shape that I want to be in. So that WHEN the point comes that he's able to make a move on me...I'll feel comfortable enough in my body to focus on the moves he's making. Rather than worrying and being embarrassed about my body.

But hopefully, after 7 + months, he'll be looking through rose colored glasses anyway.

In my search for finding ways to turn challenges into positives, I think I've found a good solution for this one.

Hey, I'm going to have to find some constructive channel for all this pent up 'energy'.

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Sometimes I wonder if there is something inherently wrong with me.

But then, I cry a little, take a deep breath, and remind myself that relationships are not easy. That's why many people are turning to Michele to learn good relationship skills.

I'm living with my parents.

I'm 28 years old, separated from my husband, no children, 29000 in debt and 92 pounds over weight.

HOWEVER.

I've been healing my relationship with my parents while I've been living with them. I feel that I've made good progress with them, despite the setbacks that do occur. That will continue to occur. (Note to self: Relationships are not easy but they are worth working on.)

I've paid off 2 out of 12 debts and consolidated 4 others.

I've lost 40 pounds (through weight watchers) and so am ONLY 92 pounds overweight.

I'm healing my relationship with my husband.

I have a good challenging job at my favorite University.

Lots of good things are happening.

I'm making good progress.

But, I have to begin DBing my parents.

I'm living with my parents rent free. They and I agree that this is the best thing so that I can make huge dents in my debts in the quickest way possible.

My dad is a Bankruptcy Lawyer. He sees people from all walks of life coming in to declare bankruptcy. That adds stress because he's scared that I'll end up there too.

However, last night, my mom told me to clean up her mess. I told her she needed to be responsible for her mess and clean it up herself. She said if you don't clean up this mess I won't order stuff from ebay for you anymore.

I HATE that game.

Mom does something nice for me. A favor. However, I feel like that favor is turned into a weapon against me. Best solution, don't ask for any favors. Ever.

So, I say, "With that attitude, I won't ask for you to order anything from Ebay for me ever again."

Later last night, my dad comes and knocks on my door. He's yelling at me, but quietly, as if he doesn't want my mom to hear.

He says, "I don't care whose mess it is. Next time your mom asks you to clean up something, you damn well better do it. You are living in this house rent free. She does so much for you and you are ungrateful most of the time. You do what she asks or you can move out."

My parents do do a lot for me. An incredible amount.

And I try to show my gratitude.

My mom and I have an arguement. It's between us. But then my dad feels the need to step in and defend her. And boy does he defend her.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Oops...didn't mean to post that one yet.

Oh well, it was getting long anyway.

So, I want to stay at my parents house. I want to work through this.

He gets angry, leaps to her defense the best way he knows how. He comes close to kicking me out of the house.

I'm 16 years old again. When he did kick me out.

Why am I facing this again?

Because this time, I have the tools to handle the situation that I wasn't able to handle when I was 16.

This is the chance to heal the pain that I've felt since I was 16. This is my chance to act rather than re-act.

I will DB my parents.

I will clean up what my mom asks me to do. I am living in their house rent free. I haven't read the 5 languages of love book, but I'm positive that my mom has several languages of love. 1) She buys presents for people. 2) She spends quality time with people. 3) She responds well to people showing her love by spending quality time with her AND doing what she calls 'Love chores'.

So, I'll show her love in a way she can hear. I'll do the cleaning that she asks me to do.

I'll do my best to maintain a Positive Mental Attitude when I'm around her and my dad.

My dad seems happiest when I stay within my budget. It'd blow his socks off if I came in below my budget one month. He's happiest also when there's no conflict between my mom and I.

So, to DB him, I'll do my best to show progress in my finances and to keep conflict with my mom away from him. If she choses to talk to him about it, that's beyond my control. But I can chose to speak to my mom privately instead of in front of him, when an issue comes up.

I will look at this as my chance to practice DBing before I'm living with my husband.

If I can Master DBing every day with my parents, then DBing with my husband will be much easier.

I hope!

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

If my husband knew about this latest incident, he'd tell me to move out and not look back.

I've walked down that path already.

Told myself that my family was dysfunctional beyond repair. Went for years not talking to either of my parents.

I became bitter and depressed.

That path didn't work for me.

The universe is giving me the chance to choose a different path this time around.

Thank you.

I'll do my best.

Hugs to all of you listening.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Oh, and the reason all this started.

My mom was drunk last night.

Acting silly, yelling with her mouth full so that she was spitting...when I pointed out to her that she was spitting, she moved closer so that her spitting would land on me.

Yuck.

Couldn't type her ebay password in...took her 5 tries.

Stumbling around, couldn't keep her balance.

She's not normally like that.

I found myself trying to control her, telling her what to do. Our roles reversed. Me the controlling mommy, her the child.

I don't like it when she tries to control me.

But yet, when her baviour became unacceptable, I started trying to be controlling.

I DON'T like seeing that controlling side of myself. I don't respect it. Don't want it.

So, I lashed out and told her to be responsible and clean up after herself.

Next time that happens and I feel myself reverting to an Army commander barking orders...I need to do something different.

I begin barking orders because
1) I'm afraid she'll hurt herself
2) I don't understand why she can't perform a simple task that she does everyday (normally) took me awhile to realize she was drunk...she wasn't slurring her words at all.
3) Perhaps I don't like having such an erratic change in my environment and so out of fear, try to take control, to control my fear.

So, what can I do next time?

1) Remove myself from the situation, say I need a time out.
2) I don't know...other than use Lily's duct tape.

Any ideas?

Hugs all.

[lostlove]

hell if we can db out parents we can db anyone!!

good luck with your goals!!

LL

[lostlove]

1) Remove myself from the situation, say I need a time out.

this is probably the best thing to do.
I lived with an alchoholic mother til I got married, only thing to do was just leave her to herself or if she had finally fallen asleep (passed out?) on the couch wake her and get her to bed (gee who's the mom?) now I (and my brothers) just don't call her house after a certain hour.
there is also another possible way to go about it...think of when you and your girlfriends would drink and one would have a little too much how would you treat her??? try to treat mom the same way.

LL

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

1) Remove myself from the situation, say I need a time out.

this is probably the best thing to do.

Ok. I'll give that a shot.

there is also another possible way to go about it...think of when you and your girlfriends would drink and one would have a little too much how would you treat her??? try to treat mom the same way.

Well, I'll have to ponder that. When my husband would get drunk, I'd do my darndest to seduce him...can't do that with my mom!

Laf.

Thanks LL.

Hugs.

[lostlove]

When my husband would get drunk, I'd do my darndest to seduce him...can't do that with my mom!

what I mean is did you get mad at them and want to "mother" them? or did you accept that though what they had done to themselves (getting drunk) was irrisponsible and not good for them, it was their choice and not get angry at them but be helpful (am I telling you to be an enabler, I hope not).

I guess it's just best to realize when she (or anyone for that matter) is drunk they will not be themselves and all you can do is try not to react to it. and if that means you must remove yourself from the sit to avoid being sucked into a conflict then that is what you do.


LL

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

LL,

Ok, that makes sense.

I'll make my goal to remind myself that it's her choice and try to be helpful.

If I get mad then I'll remove myself.

Thanks LL.

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

UCLA STUDY ON FRIENDSHIP AMONG WOMEN By Gale Berkowitz

A landmark UCLA study suggests friendships between women are special. They shape who we are and who we are yet to be. They soothe our tumultuous inner world, fill the emotional gaps in our marriage, and help us remember who we really are. By the way, they may do even more.

Scientists now suspect that hanging out with our friends can actually counteract the kind of stomach-quivering stress most of us experience on a daily basis. A landmark UCLA study suggests that women respond to stress with a cascade of brain chemicals that cause us to make and
maintain friendships with other women. It's a stunning find that has turned five decades of stress research---most of it on men---upside down. Until this study was published, scientists generally believed that when people experience stress, they trigger a hormonal cascade that revs the body to either stand and fight or flee as fast as possible, explains Laura Cousin Klein, Ph.D., now an Assistant rofessor of Biobehavioral Health at Penn State University and one of the study's authors. It's an ancient survival mechanism left over from the time we were chased across the planet by saber-toothed tigers.

Now the researchers suspect that women have a larger behavioral repertoire than just fight or flight; In fact, says Dr. Klein, it seems that when the hormone oxytocin is released as part of the stress responses in a woman, it buffers the fight or flight response and encourages her to tend children and gather with other women instead. When she actually engages in this tending or befriending, studies
suggest that more oxytocin is released, which further counters stress and produces a calming effect. This calming response does not occur in men, says Dr. Klein, because testosterone---which men produce in high levels when they're under stress---seems to reduce the effects of oxytocin. Estrogen; she adds, seems to enhance it.

The discovery that women respond to stress differently than men was made in a classic "aha" moment shared by two women scientists who were talking one day in a lab at UCLA. There was this joke that when the women who worked in the lab were stressed, they came in, cleaned the lab, had coffee, and bonded, says Dr. Klein. When the men were stressed,
they holed up somewhere on their own. I commented one day to fellow researcher Shelley Taylor that nearly 90% of the stress research is on males. I showed her the data from my lab, and the two of us knew instantly that we were onto something. The women cleared their schedules and started meeting with one scientist after another from various
research specialties. Very quickly, Drs. Klein and Taylor discovered that by not including women in stress research, scientists had made a huge mistake: The fact that women respond to stress differently than men has significant implications for our health. It may take some time for
new studies to reveal all the ways that oxytocin encourages us to care for children and hang out with other women, but the "tend and befriend" notion developed by Drs. Klein and Taylor may explain why women consistently outlive men. Study after study has found that social ties reduce our risk of disease by lowering blood pressure, heart rate, and
cholesterol. There's no doubt, says Dr. Klein, that friends are helping us live longer. In one study, for example, researchers found that people who had no friends increased their risk of death over a 6-month period.

In another study, those who had the most friends over a 9-year period cut their risk of death by more than 60%.

Friends are also helping us live better. The famed Nurses' Health Study from Harvard Medical School found that the more friends women had, the less likely they were to develop physical impairments as they aged, and the more likely they were to be leading a joyful life. In fact, the
results were so significant, the researchers concluded, that not having close friends or confidants was as detrimental to your health as smoking or carrying extra weight!

And that's not all! When the researchers looked at how well the women functioned after the death of their spouse, they found that even in the face of this biggest stressor of all, those women who had a close friend and confidante were more likely to survive the experience without any
new physical impairments or permanent loss of vitality. Those without friends were not always so fortunate. Yet if friends counter the stress that seem to swallow up so much of our life these days, if they keep us healthy and even add years to our life, why is it so hard to find time
to be with them? That's a question that also troubles researcher
Ruthellen Josselson,

Ph.D., co-author of Best Friends: The Pleasures and Perils of Girls' and Women's Friendships (Three Rivers Press,1998). Every time we get overly busy with work and family, the first thing we do is let go of friendships with other women, explains Dr. Josselson. We push them right
to the back burner. That's really a mistake because women are such a
source of strength to each other. We nurture one another. And we need to have unpressured space in which we can do the special kind of talk that women do when they're with other women. It's a very healing experience.

Taylor, S. E., Klein, L.C., Lewis, B. P., Gruenewald, T. L.,Gurung, R.A.
R., & Updegraff, J. A. (2000). Female Responses to Stress: Tend and
Befriend, Not Fight or Flight

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Note to self:

Even though I have a full plate, between work and school...I NEED to maintain my friendships.

Hug a friend today.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

OK...doing a 180 for me.

I'm going to go join a fencing club tonight!

Something I've always wanted to do, had in fact gone to club once, right before I started dating my husband ages ago. But I got so wrapped up in him, I never went back.

Tonight I go!

Hugs.

[KAW]

touché



'til later,
KAW

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Well,

I think I've mentioned before that I work at my favorite University. It turns out to even get to the fencing club, I have to be a member of the University's Fitness Center. It's a 3 story building with a climbing wall, an inside track, a HUGE pool, machines scattered everywhere around the pool so that you have something to watch while working out. (Can you say, "Eye Candy?") Lots of classrooms for different classes, including Badmintion, Karate, Volleyball, Yoga, Pilates...etc! Plus a workout room stuffed with various weight machines and more.

At $11.00 a month, that's not a bad deal. Especially since they have a lot of really nice equipment.

I've found myself a playground!

So, I never made it to the fencing club last night, but rather I got up at 5:30 am and went and worked out for a good amount of time.

As soon as I got bored with one machine, I switched to another.

I had FUN!

Does this count as getting a life?

Hugs all!

[jethro]

That's great, PNT! I, myself, have been interested in doing fencing, but have never gotten around to it...too many other things to occupy my time. Jeez, at $11 a month, go for it!

Especially since they have a lot of really nice equipment.

Are you talking about the machines or the "eye candy?"

jethro

[lostlove]

Does this count as getting a life?

you bet!!

LL

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Especially since they have a lot of really nice equipment.

Are you talking about the machines or the "eye candy?"

Giggle.

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

LL,

Thanks for dropping by!

I haven't had a chance to read your thread yet, still making my way through Lily's journey.

But I'll get there someday!

I hope things are going well for you on your path.

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Well,

I had an idea. My husband's birthday is coming up. I wasn't sure what to do. Should I do what he did to me? Not call/email? No, that'd be petty and I'd feel bad. Should I do something special for him? Not sure, I'm still hurting from his forgetting mine.

Idea:

Celebrate both!

So, I called him up...told him that I noticed that his birthday was coming up. I had an idea and wanted to see what he thought.

I told him it'd be great if we could do something to celebrate BOTH birthdays.

I told him I didn't have any idea what we could do to celebrate... but I wanted to throw the idea out there and see what he thought.

He thought it was a good idea and said he'd ponder what we could do to celebrate.

I have to say, I'm quite proud of this idea.

AND, I got an I Love You from him! Woot!!

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Yet another Lily swiping.

This is something that I've struggled with.

My W used to ask me why I loved her. I never had an answer. I just do.

I suppose that part of the love decision is based on seeing the positive aspects of the person you decide to love. That makes your decision easier, but basically, love is one of those things that you can’t spend too much time analyzing. You just have to do it.

Do you love your kids?

Why?

Andy

Makes sense to me.

Note to self:

Stop questioning myself about my love for Husband.

When he and I live together again, remember not to ask him why he loves me.

Hugs all.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

I have a date with my husband this sunday.

I've been exercising in the mornings and feeling good about that. However, my appetite has increased.

I'm not sure if my appetite has increased because I'm nervous about my date with my husband. Or because I'm excercising.

When I take a deep breath and go into my body, my still inner voice tells me it's because I'm nervous.

For some reason, I can't seem to break the 220 lb barrier. I don't understand why this is an issue for me.

I know my husband would love to see me thinner. I'd love to be thinner, stronger, more energetic.

How do I get past this?

Weight Watchers has a bracelet that helps keep track of the day's points. I wear it and use it as my touch stone. My reminder that I have made my goal to adopt this new way of eating for life.

That doesn't seem to be working.

I'll try the 'Stop Sign Technique' today.

Also, I think the sugar contributes to my depression. I notice that after I eat anything with sugar, I start feeling down and my clouds turn gray.

It's time for me to experiment. 2 weeks without sugar. I'll see how my mood is. Will I have more blue skies? Instead of gray clouds every day, I'd love to only have gray clouds 3 times a week.

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Most people on this board would be thrilled to get an ILY. (Congrats Jethro!!)

I'm getting ILY's from my husband. I'm still thrilled each time.

However, I still feel like if I didn't call him and ask him on a date, he'd not ask me.

I've seen that before...and each time, the person decides to wait it out, their spouse DOES come back and ask them for a date.

The fact is, despite my hurting heart, I DON'T want my husband back unless he wants to be back. Truly back.

After this date, I need to back off and not contact him, go back to only calling him once for every 4 times he calls me. Let him have the opportunity to put some effort into our relationship.

My biggest fear. He won't call, won't contact me, won't ask me on a date. I'll never hear from him again. I'll be in Limbo the rest of my life.

Is this realistic? With my husband? No....but 6 months could easily go by before he decides to call. This is how he is with his family.

And when they call and express the desire to see him, he'd ask me why they couldn't just leave him alone. I'd try to explain that they love him and want to be a part of his life. He didn't get it. Was perfectly happy only hearing from them once a month. Was annoyed at family obligation. I don't know if he's changed.

Sigh.

I need to remember that people don't value what they get for free.

Most people value stuff more, the more they pay for it.

By giving my husband me for free, I'm only hurting myself and our relationship. I'm only giving him permission to not value me.

On Sunday, on our date, I'll not talk about our relationship. I'll stay focused on being/having fun and being friendly, enthusiastic and energetic.

Hugs.

[lostlove]

wow pnt!,

you've got a lot to think about here...I would try not to worry too much about the weight...good that you are aware of the different effects have on your moods and when and why you tend to eat but don't obsess over the weight (that only tends to lead to more eating) you are working out and watching what you eat..it takes time just like everything around here!!

regarding the date...you know how to play it.

I understand the thoughts that it would take h a long long time to initiate a date on his own as well as the contact with his family...my h is rather the same way..infact when we do get an invite to visit family he always tries to get them to come here so he doesn't have to go anywhere. ah but then knowing that is the way they are with even their own family we should not take it so personally (I still do though, I'll have to work on it)

well I just wanted to say howdy, so howdy and good luck on that date!! (hey why not refer to it as something other than a "date" to help take the pressure off??)

LL

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hiya LL,

Thanks for dropping by.

Well, we are going to our favorite restaurant. We both love it, and even though he lives right near it, he says he hasn't been there since the last time we went together.

So, I'll think of it as a reunion with my favorite Diner!

Giggle.

Hugs.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

I've started a new thread.

You can visit me here:

Staying Focused

Hugs.

[Ange]

Hello PNT. I just loved what you said in your post.

Quote:

"I need to remember that people don't value what they get for free.

Most people value stuff more, the more they pay for it.

By giving my husband me for free, I'm only hurting myself and our relationship. I'm only giving him permission to not value me."

I find this very thought provoking and insightful. Thanks for sharing this and best wishes for your date on Sunday!