Onwards and Upwards - DivorceBusting.com

My Friends,

Welcome to our new thread... I hope this will be a good place to both sound a few ideas and to perhaps offer some advise and support to those of you further back in the process.

For those of you who don't know my story in brief.
4 months seperated (W was a Walkaway with EA)
3 months back together
Just started with a MC.

I am now very happy with myself and the changes that I am now living and the opportunity that this crisis has presented to allow me to grow.

I now feel that my W is finally "catching up" in our growth and understanding of how to meet each others needs.

Chris

[This message has been edited by ChrisJ (edited 12-03-1999).]

Wife was a Walkaway, now we are back together for like 2 1/2 months. Has anyone noticed this: My wife doesn't now seem to think I was really as terrible as she thought I was. I mean like she says now "All I wanted was a little help around the house and more affection". Geez, want to get a divorce over something as trival as that. I know she felt like she was in hell too, but this was a life changing, character building event for me!

Byte

Byte,

Same story to a "T"... I probably think that I was worse than she thinks I was now. If that makes sense?

We still have a ways to go in the intimacy department. She has a few roadblocks up as far as showing affection but we continue to make progress.

Do you see the relationship moving forward? Do you feel stuck sometimes?

Chris

[This message has been edited by ChrisJ (edited 12-03-1999).]

Hey Chris,

just wanted to stop by and see your new house

one thing to remember that might make a diference as to the now they dont think you are as bad as they thought before....
When people are depressed the often can only recall the negatives and cant really remember the good things as they come out of their depression they start to remember the good.
For me there was so much bad and its all I could remember! now that I am feeling better I am really working hard to remember the good times because there were some.
just like the perfect anecdote for resentment is gratitude. so I am trying to use that as way of helping to let go of the negative past.

Chris I dont know if you had a chance to see my thread today but I have to tell you, I did good yesterday! I did the active listening!!!

take care
Sue

Sue,

I read your thread and it honestly brought a tear of happiness to my eye (well both actually). What touched me is your success and knowing how powerful seeing the results of your actions is.

When I first started trying to actively listen it was difficult and controlled but now with more practise I find it relaxing in that I don't feel that I have to either take it personally or need to fix anything. So I listen and basically enjoy my W instead of becoming involved with the problems she is talking about.

Yesterday my W said in a joking way that it was no wonder we had been in the mess we were in because neither one of us were understanding nor meeting each others needs.

This is huge! It means that the she has started to accept that the problems have been due to our behaviors and lack of understanding not because of who we are.

We are now starting to have more talks about specifically meeting each others needs. I have already seen the results in her actions. I respond to affirmations, while she is more of a quaility time person.

Chris

My Friends,

Another good weekend...

I had the opportunity to reread DB for the 4th or 5th time this Saturday. This read I may have got more understanding than any of my previous ones. The reason being I can now detach from my past and the self, that I have moved on from, and really look objectively at how I interact with my W.

At first I mistakenly thought that the DB techniques were slightly manipulative but now I feel that I have a much better understanding of how the techniques work. They allow you a range of different possible actions different from the ones that got you in the situation in the first place. The process of self growth and understanding is really about finding the actions that work for you. That make you into the person that can draw back the running spouse or forgive the pain the your SO has brought.

It takes time for you to "feel" the results of these changes in you. Once you are living these changes then they will have a positive affect on you SO.

This weekends babystep was a return to a routine of kissing each other whenever one of us was leaving.

Chris

[This message has been edited by ChrisJ (edited 12-07-1999).]

Chris,

Just thought I'd stop by to see the new place. Glad to see you're still on track.

You're right about re-reading the DBbook. It takes 2 or 3 times before you "get it".

Rich

Chris,
gosh do I hear you!
I feel like I just had some realizations myself but I dont have the time to get into them but its about how I feel and look at my situation I feel like I have gotten past the road block I was at.

I am very happy for you!

take care!
Sue

Been a while since I've been here, but I'm glad to see new topics being posted.

Brief history....wife left in July and finally came back 2 weeks ago. I have developed into this new person. The best part is that she sees it and like it. I beleive that Michelle's book as well as other books helped me deal with the seperation. A special thanks goes out to all of you who have responded and "put me in my place". I wish everyone luck in there marriages, because there worth it!!!

Dougie

Sue,

Tell me about your breakthrough when you get a chance.

Dougie,

I don't think anybody "put you in your place", perhaps you just found the person that you could be and started to like that person.

Rich,

Perhaps someday your W will realize what she is missing or perhaps its comforting to know that you do!

Michele,

Thank you for this forum and this board I have found that in many ways it acts as a mirror allowing us each to see the truth and clarity that exists tangled up with confused emotions in our heads.

Chris

Chris,
I was really looking forward to writing to you about my breakthrough as soon as I realized it. and now at this moment I am so mad I cant even remember what it was. does that even make sense? I hope it comes back to me! I guess I think it had more to do with what you were saying earlier and what you have been trying to get me to understand and I wasnt quite there. anyways. I just started a thread in Newcommers because I wanted the guys insight being it was more of a communication mix up I am sure and I know that book you keep telling me to get would probably explain it all right now! any how here is the the url if you have time its long unfortunately, sorry about that.
http://www.weiner-davis.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/000598.html

Sue

Sue,

Active listening is difficult if you are distracted with reacting and fixing. Try reading through the following link.
www.easton-snelgrove.com/Pages/blockers.html

Chris

[This message has been edited by ChrisJ (edited 12-07-1999).]

ChrisJ,

Thanks for the link to Good Listening.
...I visited, I read, I printed...

Excellent tips. This information comes at a perfect time for me.

I am beginning to become anxious about H's move back home. Christmas is 2 1/2 weeks away and H said that he would be moved back in B4 the 25th. A specific date has not yet been set. Nor has he begun to move "belongings" either.

I feel we should have a couple of trial runs. Possibly an overnight or two before hand. Should I ask him to stay or should I let him ask? Something tells me he feels uncomfortable or awkward asking...or should I just let nature take its course?
(Don't mean to intrude on your thread, I will be starting new topic here soon I'm sure). As you can see, as the time gets closer, I'm feeling kind of wacky...

So happy to hear about your "good" weekend, keep up the good work. Sounds like you are making excellent progress!

Chelsea

Chelsea,

Don't worry about stuff feeling awkward it will soon pass.

Last week my W had kissed me two times in the last 6 months. Friday I initiated a ritual goodbye kiss that was at first awkward and know only a few days later seems "normal".

I really am happy to here about your progress.

(I like threadbusters)

Chris

Thanks Chris.

I have been hesitant about initiating the goodbye kiss with H. Guess I felt I would come across too strongly, and he would retreat. But I must start somewhere! Maybe tonite!

(It feels real good to be at this Forum)!!

Chelsea

My Friends,

Today is the day! Today will have our first joint session with our MC. My W has met with her several times and feels comfortable with her. I have been once and I do think she will help.

I am however a little concerned. My W was a WAW and I have been ever so careful at not forcing the pace. We have been seeing slow but continual progress. Could this session be too much like pressure. I am wondering about backslides.

Up until now I have found away to control the pace and gauge when and how to try to move forward, maybe this session is about me handing over riens (is that how you spell it)to "us". It's a little scary.

Chris

Chris I was scared too when I attended the first joint session since August just earlier this week. I could see that H had made progress as he continued to go by himself from September until two weeks ago. I didn't know for sure what to expect in the joint session and it made me nervous.

For me it really was different than I expected. The therapist told me how glad she was to see me again and asked how I thought things were going and I told her they seemed to be going well. She let us both know how far we had come and said to just keep doing what we were doing. My H is very happy that his sanity came back and he is with his family that loves him. He is now trying everything to help me feel secure in our relationship again. The therapist agreed with my H that it was not necessary for us to see her anymore but that she will always be there for us if we hit a snag. We went ahead and made an appointment for next month anyway because I think I need a little help with this "full steam ahead" attitude of my H. I told H and the therapist that my goal is not to just pretend this never happened but to come out of this with a better than ever marriage that we are both happy in.

Chris I am going to be waiting to see how your session goes and keeping my fingers crossed for you. This is progress my friend. You are doing so well with the DBing techniques. Keep up the good work.

My H was a walkaway with an OW ho. Same old story huh yadda, yadda, yadda. Sure is interesting how the same thing happens to so many of us. Good Luck Chris.

[This message has been edited by Johnswife (edited 12-10-1999).]

ChrisJ,

Good Luck at MC session today. Please let us know how things go.

Try not to be too nervous. Anything "new" can be scary.

Chelsea

Chelsea,
Before my h came home, I asked him to spend a night. He slept in our bed with me, each evening after work, bringing only enough clothes for one day. At the end of the week, he showed up with all his food, and enough clothes for the weekend. On Memorial Day he and I went over to the place where he was renting a room and packed up the rest of his stuff in his truck and moved him home.

It was good for us to do it slowly. Especially for my daughter, as she did not want her daddy back at first. She was still very angry at him. Didn't want to help us pack him up or see him room, etc. She still cannot bear to hear the name of h's roommate---just brings back real bad memories of a time she'd just as soon forget.

OK, I'm getting off track here, what I meant to say was if you think he feels awkward asking, he probably is. You'll probably need to make the first move. Invite him for a nice dinner and ask him to plan to spend the night.

Hopefully, he'll get the idea of a trial moving in kinda thing. Good luck! GG
-----------------------------------------

Chris:
I know what you mean by confrontational. I think some of the cheers stuff can try my patience. I really enjoy talking with the folks over a cyber-cocktail, but it really frustrates me to be a cheerleader over there and have to constantly remind folks why we are here---to DB, not to figure out whether or not we should date our neighbors, and if so, how to go about it. Sorry, but that seems counterproductive to restoring our marriages. And listening to others encouraging our fellow DBers to start new relationships while old wounds aren't healed is really hard for me to swallow. I know, I'm preaching to the choir again.

I think you're doing a great job piecing things together again. It does take a great deal of time and patience, blood, sweat, tears, but I do believe it's worth it. I've only been DBing for 6 months. I wish I had found this earlier, but thank God I found it! It's been extremely helpful to me. I've been on this roller coaster since August of 98, when things started to go south.

Things have just recently started to make larger leaps of progress. I am still working on my trust issues. I have a major trial coming up this week. My parents have convinced me to let them fly me up to Vegas for a day and a half. (They're going there on a charter vacation and want me to meet up with them. Haven't seen them for a year). I have no money since I've not worked in 16 months, but they are insisting on paying for it. So, I'm going to try and have a good time and not worry about my h backsliding. But I have to admit, I am a little nervous about leaving town.

I'm old with a failing memory, so forgive me, but I cannot remember if you have tried Retrouvaille or plan to with your wife? Let me know, OK? We got a lot out of it and I do recommend it when the timing is right.

Well, that's all for now, I'll chat with you later, GG

My Friends,

Our first joint session with the MC was last Friday. We had both met her seperately and are both comfortable with her. She is very Pro-Marriage and seems solution orientated.

I thought the session went well. Eventually we got to what I believe is a core issue with my W...

Bridging the trust that she had lost in me for not "being there for her" when she went through a depression 6 years ago. We did not dwell on that issue to deeply. The MC asked how I might know if that loss of trust had been bridged. I said that T***** would show me more affection. She asked on a scale of 1 to 10 how much affection that she showed me now I said about a 2. My W agreed with this.

She then asked my W about me.. She said 7.

The session was quite emotional and I could see my W was nervous and maybe a little scared.

The MC gave us some worksheets on affection to go through until our next session in Jan.

Sue,

Thanks for your support over these last several months.

Chelsea,

I am excited to here on your plans,

GG,

Thanks for your post, I certainly understand what you saying about the lack of clarity and focus sometimes in newcomers. I have come to this BB for one purpose. To find the tools and the understanding on how to improve my marriage. Having found some of these tools and recieving so much support I now want to put as much back as I have taken.

We (W and I) have talked about retrouvaille but I would like to persue the MC route first, as long as we both think that we are making progress. Have fun in Vegas.

JW,

I was fortunate that the EA or ? that my W had did not create much more damage than the neglect that I had committed over the last several years. I believe that our 4 month seperation was my wake up call. The tough part of course is turning of that buzzer .

Chris

[This message has been edited by ChrisJ (edited 12-13-1999).]

Chris,

I am curious about what you said.
You feel that you will know she trusts you again when she shows more affection.
What does she say about that?
Does she feel her lack of affection is about you and not about her.
or is that how you interpret it from the way men feel.
I am very affectionate with my H but its hard for me to open up to him because of my lack of trust. for me personally the not wanting to share my inner feelings and vulnerabilities is because of lack of trust.

Just some thoughts to think about.

you are doing great!!!
Sue

Sue,

I am not sure about her rational for her lack of affection. I think she has to feel first???

She even said to the MC that she did not want to show affection because it might give me false hope. That was a tough one but the mc redirected it quickly before I recoiled too far.

She is however trying in small ways. A touch here or a brush there. I know it is on her mind. I am not sure how to proceed. I am mixed as to when to push the envelope.

Now the good stuff.. I "discovered yesterday that my W had cleared all the phone #'s from her cel that I would not approve off (like OM for instance). To do this she had to get the thing reprogrammed at the phone store. She had been hiding these numbers in memory since July. What a relief.. I guess for her too.

Next bit of good news.. we are going to Mexico for Christmas. Just a week but it should be a great opportunity to reconnect.

Chris

[This message has been edited by ChrisJ (edited 12-14-1999).]

Chris,

Hi. Long in tooth newcomer on board.

It seems your W keeps making gradual steps to reconnecting. The phone thing is a concrete action in the right direction.

Trust will come in time. For myself I know it would be easier to love my W again than to trust her. I still love her on a certain level but the trust is close to zero.

I think with the patience you have your W will regain the trust for you. She seems committed to trying.

Don't forget the sun screen.

Rich

[This message has been edited by Rich (edited 12-15-1999).]

Chris,
well thats all quite exciting

It sounds to me that she does trust you, and her lack of affection might not be because she dosnt want to but her fear of the confusion of her feelings.

The reason I have been able to go back to being affectionate with my H is because I am by nature affectionate and carring. Not allowing that part of me was hard on me and kept me closed off. It was the "act as if" that helped there. I was also afraid to be affectionate because I wasnt sure we could work things out. Feeling afraid of committing to the long haul when I didnt know what was going to happen with my feelings. If my own personal problems would interfere with me being able to have a healthy relationship period, not just with my H. So I was very afraid of leading him on in a situation that I wasnt certain of the outcome. The thing is I dont have to be certain of the outcome, and if I dont put my all into it then there is more of a chance of a negative outcome.
not trying to be a thread buster just hoping my feelings might trigger thoughts of your own for your situation.

She definitly is showing wonderful positive signs. Yes its great she took care of her phone as far as your feelings go and also that speaks volumes for her feelings as well, I think.

"She is however trying in small ways. A touch here or a brush there. I know it is on her mind. I am not sure how to proceed. I am mixed as to when to push the envelope."

I think maybe just mirroring her actions. let her lead and you can reciprocate and intiate the same level of contact as well. Once things are comfortable you can go just a tiny bit further and stay there a while and so on.

I am sure this Christmas vacation will be a wonderful time of connection for you two!

as things progress she will start to feel more secure in her actions.

Have a great time!
go parasailing for me!!!

Sue

ChrisJ: Things seem to be going pretty well for you two (you and W). Keep up the good work. The vacation thing should do good.

I'm waiting on that one myself. My H wants us to go away (without kids), at least for a weekend. He actually said he would like to go to the same place where we went for our honeymoon. I think it would be great. We've always wanted to go back there.

Jo

ChrisJ,

I am so glad to hear of the progress you and W are making! Mexico for Christmas....that's wonderful!

My H is also trying in small ways. I guess some progress is better than no progress....right??? It's been four weeks for us (trying mode). And I can see progress. He is moving back home this weekend (12/17), I still cannot believe it!! (I'll post rest of story in new thread).

Remember time and patience. I keep reminding myself of it every day. And as long as you see the relationship moving forward, it's a positive sign.

Your Christmas get-a-way sounds like a great opportunity for the two of you to reconnect again. I hope you both have a wonderful time! Along with the sunscreen, pack those great DBing skills too!

You're on a road to success!

Seasons Greetings.....Chelsea

Sue,

Thanks for your insight about affection.. I think your comment about uncertain outcome is exactly her sticking point. She does not want to act as if in case there is a "negative" outcome.

I don't yet think that I can push this although I think that I do understand it. I am hopeful that as time passes she will start to feel more secure and come to realize that the affection that is missing is only one component of an otherwise excellant marriage.

I think the MC has already discovered this "blockage" and has started a plan to get through it. I also think it has not been until just recently that she has looked at other components besides affection in expressing love. Gary Chapmans book (5LL's) has been helpful.

For me the "act as if" has been to act as if we were more intimate. I do remember and can relive how I feel after "love making". At first this was tough mainly because I took the lack of affection and wanting as a personel rejection, now I accept that this is not the case.

Rich,

Thanks for stopping by.. I have been reading in newcomers but I get a little overwhelmed by all the new faces unfortunately with all the old problems and making all the same mistakes due to lack of understanding. One thing that I am sure of is that until I accepted my role in the situation and focussed solely on myself, I did not feel in control.

Rich don't give up on your W, time is a funny thing.

Jo,

Go on that weekend trip and have fun. Be the happy people you once where. Your H is wanting to build and improve your marriage, help him.

Chelsea,

I can't wait to read your new thread!

Chris

This whole thing sure does take alot of work. The good thing is that it is worth it.

I do want to go away for a weekend with H. Although it won't happen until at least next month since the holidays are just about here.

I do see some changes in him which is good.

Jo

Hi all!
Sounds like some good news is coming our way in groups. Remember like Chelsea said, time and patience. It works and it IS worth it. Hang in there and never give up hope or give up trying. Good to hear from you folks. Rich, ChrisJ is right. Hang in there. GG

Chris,
dont forget the shades and sunblock!

You two have a wonderful time! you know you wont be too far from us, my H goes to Mex all time, he loves their tacos, its just a hop skip and jump from us.

Okay sooo, you want me to read that book I guess by next year I should have it finished! perhaps then I will completely understand all you have been telling me for a while.
as Theressa was sending me summaries and some complete chapters she said she realized so many more things from just going through it again, so many things clicked. so I guess I will be reading it more then once. Maybe you will go through again to see if there is anything that you didnt realize the first time through.

Look out, because I am competetive and you have challenged me
this is one race where were all winners just for reaching the finish line

have a great Holiday!

Sue