Hi! I am new to piecing. I was over in the infidelity forum. But I think here is more appropriate for me though. My H is doing all the right things he needs to do to piece our life together. I couldnt ask for better cooperation. But I cant seem to do my part. I have to be honest, I do not have the DB or DR books. My resources are limited and I am doing my best to learn from you guys. So I really do not know the complete steps to piece.
Right know I am trying to figure out what is the difference between forgiving and accepting?
Also, I want to know opinions on wedding rings. Do you wear them, can never wear them, never took them off, put them in a garbage disposal? To me they mean absolutly nothing and I don think I will ever wear them again. Does the feeling pass and with time I will be able to wear them or most likly not?
Thanx
Kim
Until you're no longer married, the rings mean something. My wife and I still wear ours, because she is my wife and I am her husband. Her commitment at some points was meaningless, but the rings have always meant something and always will.
I'm in a similar sitch, except it was my W who had the A behind my back for 3 years and was planning on divorcing me to marry the OM. However, she chose to stay, and is similarly doing everything I could reasonably expect her to do.
My wife lacks feelings for me. I still have feelings for her, but they come and they go, they change with time.
The fact that she acted upon her feelings for someone else, and chose to act on those feelings rather than act upon her commitment to me, is the problem. IMO, anytime we choose to act upon our feelings rather than our commitments, if there is a conflict between the two, we commit a grievous error.
I believe that applies to our lack of feelings as well. I made a vow to my wife to be her husband for richer or poorer, in sickness or health, for better or for worse, til death do we part. That doesn't mean I'm supposed to simply take up space in our house and be her roomate and "co-parent" (I hate that word, anyway).
I am a Christian and believe I am obligated to forgive my wife because she asked for my forgiveness, and I am obligated to fully restore the relationship from my side, as she is obligated to from hers. So I can't treat our marriage like a second-class marriage, and I can treat her like a second-class citizen in our marriage. I have to give her my best and expect nothing in return.
That doesn't mean I can't DB, and it doesn't mean I have to be a doormat.
It means I have to love her anyway, regardless of what she does, because of who God is, not because of who she is.
The way I see it, I'm loving her out of my strength which ultimately comes from God, rather than my weakness or neediness. Even if you're not a Christian, I think DB is consistent with the idea that we must choose to become strong first, then love our wayward spouse out of that strength.
That way we know we gave it our all and we are no longer the problem. Someone on here has the tag line in their sig "If I am not the problem, I can't be the solution."
I think that's one good way to look at it. We are working to not be the problem in our M. Once we get there, that's all we can do. Maintain it and love out of our strength. It is likewise our S's obligation to not be the problem.
If they choose to be the problem, we know we've done everything we can do...and if they leave for good, then we're that much better for the next person who comes along.
This is just my opinion, of course, but I don't think removing wedding rings, withholding things, etc. does anything but hurt ourselves, does anything but continue to make us part of the problem. That doesn't mean we have to be at our spouse's beck and call, doesn't mean they get to make the decisions.
It means we must be willing and availalble to solve the problems...in ourselves first.
TL, that was EXCELLENT. Good insights, thank you.
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The fact that she acted upon her feelings for someone else, and chose to act on those feelings rather than act upon her commitment to me, is the problem. IMO, anytime we choose to act upon our feelings rather than our commitments, if there is a conflict between the two, we commit a grievous error.
I'll toss out an idea and you can shoot it down if it seems lame. Just working through a thought I had, but what about your W's commitment to herself? Do you feel like she is acting on feelings just to be doing something, or do you feel that she is dong this because she is committed to making herself better/happy? She has taken the wrong choice, but when a person is unhappy and maybe even in misery is it really wrong for them to look for solutions? They need to learn and grow just like we do. Sometimes they do that without goofing up their other commitments and sometimes they don't. I guess what I'm saying is that she chose to be committed to you, but she can't give up and loose herself because of that commitment. What I feel her mistake may be is that she is trying to find herself through someone else. She has to learn that she can only find what she needs in herself. I guess sometimes they can find their way back to themselves through an OP, but to me it seems rare and presents more of a distraction rather than a solution.
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I am a Christian and believe I am obligated to forgive my wife because she asked for my forgiveness ...
Would you have forgiven her even if she hadn't asked? Forgiveness is something you do for yourself. Forgiveness is what takes the bitterness form your soul. Even if you do forgive your W or any other person who has wronged you it won't help the other out until they can forgive themselves.
StevieRay
I think you're right. I don't think she would see it that way. But I think we had created so many problems in our marriage and our life, and I was certainly no help to her for a while, that she just chose to escape. She insists that if she/we were in a better financial position, she would've divorced me years ago.
But she didn't, and here we are.
Yes, I forgave her before she even asked for it. But there's a difference between forgiving as we're called to forgive anyone who trespasses against us...that's for ourselves. However, in order to actually restore the relationship, the person who committed the offense is obligated to seek forgiveness, and I am required to give it.
I still do not understand what complete forgiveness is. I can understand that it is our duty to forgive, but what does that entail? Maybe I have forgiven and dont really even know that I have. And how can I get my h to forgive himself. He is not ready and not even trying too. He feels he does not deserve any forgiveness from anybody.
As for wedding rings, I am not being spiteful or nasty by not wearing them.I just can not bring myself to. I dont feel comfortable with them on. I think they are a reminder to me as to how false all his promises were. They are supposed to be a sign of commitment. After an A the M you once had is gone. Its like mourning a death. The old M no longer exsists. So for me to wear those rings is a constint reminder of the past , that seemed to mean nothing.
complete forgiveness is to never bring it up again, to be able to calmy defeat those demons that bring memories from the affair. Maybe it was an ignorant way to do it, but I fought with EVERY memory I had about my H's affair, I confronted them and killed each one untill they no longer stabbed me the way the did. It was NOT each by any means, I hurt each time, but in the end that slime slides right off me now.
You know you have forgiven him if you dont' jab him with A related comments when mad or arguing, when you dont' hold it against him, when you accept that it is in the past and that he had (excuse me) sh*t for brains when in the A.
You can't help your H to forgive himself other than showing him (by not recalling the A) that you've forgiving him. He has to work that out by himself, time is a great healer, and if anything, when he recalls it, it will be a reminder of what NOT to do. I still think it's a lame excuse, but my H told me he didn't get rid of all the letters/picts of OW that I found (which I made him burn) because if he ever wanted to do something stupid again that woudl be a reminder.
As for rings, I also thought like you for a while, that I was wearing a symbol of something my H doens't stand for ...just yet. I took them off for a while, and my H noticed it, so it does mean something for him, so I put them back on, it's a symbol that Im a married woman and that I'm taken, that Im his and that I love him. Those rings were given to me with love, and that's the memory i attach to them.
If they bring up bad memories fo ryou, you have the right not to wear them, I think rings bring up different emotions to each of us.
Kim
Hey, it's your decision and completely understandable, I was just giving it to you from my perspective. We have to do what's best for us in these sitch's.
I have almost unlimited cash in my "self-righteous" account. I even ended up with a low-level STD because of her behavior. Everything she did was selfish and rotten. And I let her have it with both barrels for the first couple of weeks...between my grief/crying, anger, and desire for revenge. And I was very close to broadcasting her behavior to everyone in her email address book (all friends and family) and paying a little visit to the OM as well. I'm glad I didn't, though.
I realized that the A wasn't the problem with our marriage going bad, it was a symptom. Yes, it's a problem now, but one that can be solved if the larger problem of our marriage can be solved.
I choose to solve my problems; it's up to her to solve hers, or suffer the consequences on her own.
So the first thing I had to do was stop being the problem. I chose to forgive (and it too is a choice we have to reaffirm everyday until it is no longer an issue); I chose to recommit my life to Christ and be the person God calls me to be, which also means being the best husband and father I can be. I was already GAL'ing and PMA'ing when this hit, so I hit the ground running, so to speak. Lost weight, cranked up my old hobbies, and a couple new ones, got myself looking good again, etc.
The way I see it, I'm the primary beneficiary of all that, because in the end loving my wife brings me joy. Even though we're not back to where we need to be yet, and it will clearly be a long road, my love and commitment gets bigger every day...but more because of who God is, not necessarily because of who my wife is.
It seems backwards, I know. I even told that to our MC: "Wait a minute...the person I loved and trusted most perpetrates the most evil on me that I've ever experienced, and I'm supposed to LOVE her in return?"
Yep. Love her with boundaries; don't be a doormat. But love unconditionally regardless.
Anger, resentment, bitterness, etc. all have to be dealt with and expressed in a reasonable way, of course. But in the end, that stuff doesn't transform lives for the better. Only unconditional love does.
In the end, I'm glad I did. As MC said, it creates the best environment for this marriage to be healed. My sons need this marriage healed. I'd prefer it be healed than any other alternative.
But I also can't help but think that by giving her more than I'm getting, I'm actually getting more than I'm giving. If that makes any sense.
So, there's joy, but right now it also brings me pain, because I get very little (relatively speaking) in return. Although I do get more than most at this stage, I don't get what I want the most: her affection, the interest she used to have in me, her heart.
If you're a Christian, there's no way you can get closer to understanding how God suffers when we turn from Him than by unconditionally loving an unfaithful spouse who still hasn't completely returned to you with his/her whole heart. It's worse, IMO, than suffering for your children, because you don't commit to them the way you do to your spouse.
In short, it breaks my heart. But that's something God can fix, and we can all live through.
Hi Kim, I remember now you talked of moving here.The issue with your rings i think will be a personal choice.I took mine off for a couple of days,but when i was at work i felt very strange.I did not want people that i worked with to know i had problems at home.I never told anyone but my sisters,until years later of my H's A.I did not want our M to work out and then have problems with family members.In other words, them treating H different.I never told my co-workers or my H's family.He later told his parents himself.They were very shocked!Your rings symbolize love.When i wanted to remove mine i didn't feel loved.H said he always loved me,he just didn't show it.So i do understand you not wanting to wear them.
At one point in rebuilding our R ,i thought it might be good for us to renew our vows.The idea never flourished.Now, i don't feel that i need to do that.I can look back and i know that we are married and even though we had a bad spell we married for better,for worse.Through the years we have had our better and our worse and i truly hope that was the worse from now on.It will get easier in time.It does take time though.K
Everybody keeps telling me it takes time. But my H is getting very impatient with me. How do you restrain yourself from asking the questions, that really do not need to be asked. I do not throw stuff in his face, but I do like to have peace of mind. I am scared to death to just let go, and believe what he tells me.Its funny I am more frightened of being lied too, than him actually having another A or picking up were he left it with her.
He told me that he refuses to live his life like this, I can understand him when he says that. But how do you withold from spying and checking up. I know I shouldnt be doing it, but its like I just have to know. I am gonna drive him right out the door and that is not what I want.
K- I know you made the comment before, somewhat like; that when you needed an answer you couldnt wait for it. How did you get past that?
TL-
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that we must choose to become strong first
How do you do that? I do not know where to look for it in myself.
I know I am doing all the wrong things to fix our R, and I am just making it much harder for him.And pushing him away.
Kim
It is really tough to answer how you restrain from questioning.I still deal with this now myself.The reason i came back here to the boards was because finding my H had went to reunion.com and searched for an Xgf.I thought,oh no here we go again.I did question him about it,he said it was only curiosity and it meant nothing.He knows it was stupid.I still wonder why he would search for an ex-girlfriend from 20 yrs ago.I start thinking all kinds of things,is he MLC? Etc.He is done with his reasons and i decided i won't ask him nothing more.Why?Because i can no longer be the scared girl always wondering what he is up to.He told me it was nothing and i have to accept that until i find otherwise.I honestly think that i have stayed here,on the boards, though because it helps me by reading other posts and how they respond to the issues they deal with.Men are different,they want to forget and move on.We,tend to try to decipher and figure out why.
This is why affairs are so horrible,there is always the trust issue.You have to live your life and try to not worry about it though.We stay and work on our M because we love them and we hate to see our family torn apart.It is a day by day solution.We set up our boundries in our R,what we tolerate.I always said i would leave my H if he ever had an A.That was my set of rules.My C helped me by saying that we can change our rules,our boundries.So i changed mine.Why that worked,i really don't know,but it did.Kindof sounds wierd,one sentence can change the way you look at things.Marriage is not easy,it does take some work.Hope this helps some.K
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Everybody keeps telling me it takes time. But my H is getting very impatient with me. How do you restrain yourself from asking the questions, that really do not need to be asked. I do not throw stuff in his face, but I do like to have peace of mind. I am scared to death to just let go, and believe what he tells me
Every day we take chances, when you first married him you took a chance to believe him, you took a big change by joining his life with yours. I've said it before, I considered myself pretty much 99% free of the A monkey on my back. OF course here and there a thougth comes up (was he w/her on V-day, on new year's when he told me he was alone?) At a very low point of my healing process my good friend happier&healtier posted this for me :
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Please STOP
try this excerise. what is the worst thing that you can imagine. I don't want to make things worse, but lets try it on for size.
your h was gone. He was with OW in PA, even told her that he wanted to D you and M her. He was with her right up until the 2 of you began reconcilliation and ML. He wanted the best of both worlds. Told her XY&Z. made plans for the future. Even booked a cottage with her for New Years this year.
What does that mean? Cat it means that he did stuff that would hurt for you to know. none of the things matter more than the other honestly. When he left, that was the worst punch that you had to take. All the rest of it is just part of the recipe. I've said this before about my sitch, maybe it will help you. One wrong or another doesn't matter which. they are all wrong. God does not have a sin scale. Once you realize that, you can stop comparing them.
Now that you have the worst of the worst thought out. what's next. He came home, and you are working on things. The stuff that you are looking at, seeking out, torturing yourself with, that is all the past. Reality is that you are working on the future. The here and now is that he is with you. Don't wait to create a great day.
God Bless you ,HH
Her H is still away and she has 3 kids under 4, and she is consoling ME! she has reached that point in which she has regain peace and control of her emotions regardlesss of what's going on.
I'm afraid when those of us have our S's back we regress. We also wish we could unload all the misery we've canned away while DB'ing. Start little, I used to check his wallet, I stopped, I used to check his IM messages, I stopped.
Ask yourself "what is this going to accomplish" as you begin to snoop, ask yourself "is this going to make me feel better?" Trust me, once you begin, it will be easier for you to stop looking around.
If I ever look around in my H's upstairs room, is to find out not what he did w/her, but what was his life without me. I was sneaking in innocent questions here and there, but I realized that I delay his and my healing by digging for info.
Kim
Believe me, I know how you feel. Been there. Still, to some extent, there.
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How do you do that? I do not know where to look for it in myself.
Well, you have it. You're choosing not to exercise it because it's easier to give in. Ultimately, though, I would say the strength is not necessarily within yourself but in God...and our goal is to put ourselves in God's hands and handle things his way, which is the way of forgiveness.
To do that, you have to stop allowing your entire universe to swirl around your S. You have to be able to function without him before you will ever be able to share your life with him...cause as they say, if you don't Get A Life, you won't have one to share with your S.
But you do know how to do this. You already know the answer, cause you said:
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I know I am doing all the wrong things to fix our R, and I am just making it much harder for him.And pushing him away.
There you go. Now if you continue to do this, you're choosing to push him away rather than control yourself. It's your choice.
I do think the wayward S is obligated to be forthcoming with relevant details, to be willing to account for their whereabouts for a reasonable amount of time you two have to agree on. That was really the first step my W and I took to begin working together again. So far, so good.
While he was cheating, he was the problem. When he comes back and says he wants to work to make things better, and you won't let it go, you start being the problem.
Your goal is to starve the problem, refuse to feed it. The DB stuff is the way you do that.
I have just gotten to where I can fully do that. Maybe for the last 10 days, and I've already seen a difference in my W. Very small, baby steps, but steps nonetheless.
I simply chose to be the best husband I could be. I asked myself, "Self, if this were all brand new, and I wanted nothing more than to be the best husband my W could ever want, what would I do?" Then I did it, everything from spending more time with the kids, being more patient and kind, doing ALL the dishes after dinner (she cooks it all, so that's fair), doing more chores around the house without being asked, bringing her cold drinks, rubbing her feet, you name it. I listen, I validate, I don't try to fix her. I gently remind her of my love by my actions.
I do those things, but I also go about my own business too, and I don't expect anything in return. Yes, it's hard...hardest thing I've ever done. But I don't necessarily do it because of who she is, I do it because of who God is and who I want to be. And it's what my kids deserve. My absolute best.
Again, anger, bitterness, resentment feel better in the short term, and are necessary to deal with and get rid of, but true (unconditional) love transforms.
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The stuff that you are looking at, seeking out, torturing yourself with, that is all the past. Reality is that you are working on the future. The here and now is that he is with you. Don't wait to create a great day.
I keep trying to tell myself that everyday. But the urge to snoop and the distrust is so strong I ignore what is right. I have no self control.
The problem today is that, He had to work a double yesterday, meaning hed be gone from 10 am till 3am. long time right? Well it was slow so he closed early came home at 12:30am. He came home drunk, and slept on the couch. He woke up about 5 am, came in the room and tried to get frisky, I said okay, but go brush your teeth. Well he got a shower. When I ? him about it he took a fit! Saying I am crazy and that he cant put up with this nonsense. that he is doing evrything I am asking him to do.He cant prove his honesty and faithfullness enough. So this morning he woke up still mad but we talked and kinda made up.Until he went upstairs and snuck a peek at his phone, well he called her # at 11:40. So I had to ? him again about it. He told me he was trying to get a hold of her mother to get off some kind of poll that was made.That is when it really got ugly, he threw and broke his phone, carried on at me like a raging animal.
He first stormed out the door angry, but he went to the truck waited a couple min and came back, told me he was still angry and doesnt want to talk about it. But he hugged and kissed me and said Its gonna be alright.
I knew looking at his phone was wrong, but I just had to do it. Now reading this back, it was soooo stupid. Last night was for whatever reason. but the time from the phone call and the time he got home is too close for anything to happen.We live 1/2 hour from the bar. I am so stupid!!
Now I am scared all over agin, because he has to have the same shift today and tomorrow. And after all of my carrings on did I push him towards her?
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Men are different,they want to forget and move on.
But how can they fix us or move on in a better way, if it is just forgotten?
Kim, what's done is done, we all mess up now and then. That doesn't mean he will run to her though.
You could worry about him going back to her 'til the cows come home and feed those demons that have you on their firm grasp. DON'T.
I could also torture myself and think that my H could to see the OP after his classes are over at the academy (he rents a room w/ a coworker, comes home only on weekends) Yep, I could really make myself sick thinking about it. I also let my imagination run wild but trust me, you CAN conquer your fears.
If you wish to find something suspicious you will, your mind will fill in the blanks, fight that. If you start wondering again, like let's say, the shower thing-- you have a few choices "omg, he went to see her" or "he's just trying to freshen up for me" and my favorite "so he did xyz that looks suspicious, SO WHAT!"
You have tomorrow and after tomorrow to show him that you are level headed and that you want to forget the past. Tomorrow, kiss him good bye happily, have a great breakfast together and show him that you are OK.
One day at a time, I also thought I had no self control, that I just couldnt' stop, it can be done, start little, you can fight those demons, dont' give them an inch, don't give them the satisfaction of seeing you squirm at anything/everything. Make up your mind since the moment your wake up. FIGHT IT.
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But how can they fix us or move on in a better way, if it is just forgotten?
YOU are responsible for your own happiness, don't put all the load on him, I mean this in the best way, he can't find your demons for you. I'm sure you two must've talked about the A and the OP at some poing right? it was confronted not quietly tucked away, right? OK, so he didnt' asnwer many of your questions but if it was talked over and discussed then it needs to be buried and forgotten to move on.
You really have to understand that you dont have to know every little detail to forgive and forget, you can't expect him to start trusting you if you drag his infidelity to the light all over again, you are reminding him about how much he has failed you and that is very hard for a men to cope with over and over again. It's like saying "you've messed up and I want you to remember that, you have made so many mistakes and I want you to pay for it".
I have to say reading al these replies it is definately starting to sink in. The phone bill is available to be read online tomorrow. I was anticipating to read it. I will refuse to look at it. And stay strong not to ever look at it. That will be my first challenge.
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It's like saying "you've messed up and I want you to remember that, you have made so many mistakes and I want you to pay for it".
I am definately doing that. I do want him to pay for it.I want him to remember forever, because I will. Deep down I do not want that , but on the surface it would make me feel good for the moment. But for the long haul, I do not want that.
I can not express the gratitude I have for all of your responses. I could never do this with out you all. I know that I do not post on any of your threads, and I am sorry for that, but I am not ready to be giving advice, because I havent a clue as to what I am doing. As you can all see. But anyways thanks so so so so so much!
Kim, They do give good advice here.I lurked here 6 yr. ago.I don't think i ever posted.I like you didn't have any advice to give.Now,here i am trying to help others.I feel like me and my H have made it 6 yrs longer than i thought we would,so maybe we did something right?I still wonder and question to myself sometimes about the A.The good thing is he is still here with me.As far as them paying for it,i think they do through the whole A.They have to live a lie,sneak around,always look over their shoulder.Who wants to live like that?K
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As far as them paying for it,i think they do through the whole A.They have to live a lie,sneak around,always look over their shoulder.Who wants to live like that?K
Good Point!
Thanx!
you are right on the money K, my H told me that at one point he just had to lie right and left to everyone, until the whole things was a big fat lie and he got caught in it and was way over his head.
Kim, it's OK to feel like the Hs should pay for what they did. I get little bouts of anger now and then when I realize we are in such a financial pinch just because he went wild with dinners and suits and outings, so bad that some weeks I can only take my kids to McD's once a week.
Yes, I wonder if he's been miserable enough. I think he is, he tells me how each month when the 3, yes 3, credit card bills comes it brings that guilt on him again, a debt that will take us a year and a half to pay. So then I keep my mouth shut, and remember Jesus' responce to someone who asked "so how many times do I have to forgive my brother" and he said "not ony seven times, but seventy times seven"... so, there is my answer.
One more thing, you know what I got out of snooping my H's credit card bills?, MORE heartache and anger and sadness and disgust. So, you be strong and don't look at the phone bill, snopping satisfies you for the first 4 seconds, then, you are left even more miserable than before.
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snopping satisfies you for the first 4 seconds, then, you are left even more miserable than before.
This is true. And I snoop very, very well. Installed a keystroke logger on our home PC so I could see everything she typed in...emails, online accounts for places like Victoria's Secret, etc.
It will make you sick. Doing it to get the truth was something I was glad I did, at first because my wife led such a double life (singing in church on Sunday morning, then meeting the OM in a motel room or his home on Sunday afternoon when she was supposed to be shopping) and she is such a good liar that I wanted a clear picture of what I was married to.
However, once she agreed to stay and work on the M, I quit doing that, cause dwelling on that stuff, as cat pointed out, ain't good for you, and doesn't help you detach.
The only thing that really helps me is detaching. I've somehow linked my jogging with detaching and also praying. So when I feel a dark moment coming on, I usually go run and I pray while I run.
By the time I get back, I feel better (runner's high), I'm just tired enough that I don't feel like worrying over stuff I can't control, I feel more like I'm IN control (cause I've done something), and I've lost another pound or two. And often, as a result of praying, I believe I receive guidance and clarity from God, and strength do deal with this sitch.
I guess what I'm saying is that's what works best for me...detaching and gaining control over myself. It's a daily choice. It's damned hard. But it's worth it.
For me the really hard part is when I'm detached and ok with being all alone, she'll draw just a little bit closer to me on her own, very small baby steps, but noticeable. Resisting the temptation to read too much into that, to break my detachment, and want too much too soon is really difficult!!!
kim-how are you doing?I hope you didn't look over the phone bill.I agree with cat and TL,it only makes you feel worse if you find anything you didn't really need to see.I also did my share of snooping,it did not change anything.
We can't change that the A happened.We can not make it dissapear.We just have to decide if we want to forgive and try to work on the R,or forgive and go our separate ways.
I also agree that prayer really helps.God dosen't put us through more than he knows we can handle.He does not allow A's to happen,people allow them.We have our own choices to make.
I know you are having a hard time,i know your pain.I don't expect you to just forget it or get over it.That is why i always say it takes time.It is not easy.Some days are easier and then some days are terrible.These boards are good for helping people vent,it saves them from taking it out on Spouse.
I believe that the spouse acts cold sometimes because they don't really no what to say to us to make us feel better.They know they messed up and i guess they can say sorry so many times,but the real healing comes from them Showing the love and change for better.I really hope you had a good day.take care,K
I have really thought about what all of you said about the rings and I agree. I had given them back to him, when he told me abou the A. Yesterday I told him, that I am ready to wear them. I married him for better or worse and this is definately the worst, but I chose to work through this. I told him that they were given to me at a time when our love was pure and genuine. And that is definately a time I do want to forget. His face lit up, but stupid me, kinda ruined it cause he was getting ready to just get the rings and give them to me.But Of course I threw in, I am ready, but I only want you to give them to me when you are ready. Now, if he takes too long I will be mad.
Also about the snooping, I am being strong so far. At one time when we talked, I had told him if the A continues I will not put up with it. I can not wait till he gets it out of his system. He told me it was over, so I have to believe him, but I told him If I find out otherwise that, we are done. So I can not continue being blind to what is going behind my back. If anything. I will not be made a fool of again. The funny thing is out of all the values and morales that have been taught to me,loyality and honesty were my stongest. And I take it very hard when I am violated in even a small way. Just a lie about something stupid. So for me to move forward I have to know for sure that it is over. So if that means I have to snoop I will.
We are going to a new T today. That is a good thing.
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The funny thing is out of all the values and morales that have been taught to me,loyality and honesty were my stongest. And I take it very hard when I am violated in even a small way. Just a lie about something stupid. So for me to move forward I have to know for sure that it is over. So if that means I have to snoop I will.
Hi Kim,
_i also have a hard time with the breaking of morals and values.I think most people here do.Any of them are hard to get back once broken.I hate to be lied to.So once again, in comes strength,and forgiveness,how much we have to give.
I can't say much on the snooping ,i have done my share in the past.Some people have to know all the details and others don't want to know any.Everyone is different.Take care,K
I went to the T today, it was really tough today, but I feel great now. She actually opened my eyes to some things. And I can understand where my H is coming from now. Now the hard part is trying to stay in this zone for a while, until I can take another step forward. I dont want to go back to where I have been.
Thanx
Kim
I have been thinking about 2 things that were said in my T session the other day.
The 1st coming from the therapist. She said I am acting the victim role, well Duh I am the victim, but anyways; She told me to look at it like If I were in a playground and a bully pushed me down, I wouldnt ask the bully to pick me up. That I would pick myself up right? Well, I agreed and later I keep thinking about it. I not only would pick myself up but I would fight back like hell. Letting nobody walk over me or push me around SO, I have decided to ask my H to move out for awhile. I am too needy for him and he knows it. He has come back to easy. I want him to appreciate me and I want to know that I am loved. I dont want him to tell me that he loves me because I beg for it. Or call me because I plead with him to call me every 3-4 hours. I want him to call me because he wants too. I want him to have a smile on his face when he is on the phone with me, not a disgusted look. I want him to be the first to grab my hand when we hold them.
I accepted this way to easily. I do not think he really understands the velocity of this whole thing. I keep saying he is doing all the right things, but it just seems so forced.
I do not want to punish him, but I do want him to realize what he has here. Becasue I really do not believe that he does. I want to be cherished and adored. And I dont want to ask him for it. It should come from him. I am no longer gonna be the victim. Let him be one for awhile. Let him suffer for the mistakes he has made. He wants to forget it and move on, it can not be forgotten. 2 months and it cant be gone for good. There are things that I am asking him to do for me, well no longer,he knows what he needs to do. When I see a complete change in him that is when we can move forward. I can not better myself with him here. I depend too much on him.
The 2nd thing that was said was from my H. I asked him to be a romantic like type. Now, not extreme but just thoughtful. Giving him examples of what I mean. He told me I knew when I married him that he was not that way, he never was and can not change. Well, I ve been thinking about that too. When I married him he wasnt a cheater and he changed and became one. So I guess people can change.
Maybe I am being alittle harsh, and may even change my mind tomorrow, but I feel very good about it today. He was sick in bed all day today, while I was with 7 kids at 2 football games for 6 hours. I never called him once and when I got home he left for work, and I acted so strong, like "have a nice night, and hope you feel better"never told him to once call me. or acted scared for him to go in.Ya know he hugged me and held me like he didnt want to let go. It felt nice!
Kim I've never read your posts before and have only read your last one. however one thing struck me completely:
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do not want to punish him
If that is the case why are you asking him to move out? How can you work on your M properly if you aren't living together? I noitce from you blog that H had a PA. Again I don't know how long this has been over but if it is recent aren't you running the risk of pushing him right back there.
Just observations.you have to do what you think is right for you.
I am not angry or bitter about this. I want to completely work this all the way through. I just cant do that with him here. I am so needy for his attention. I follow him around like a puppy dog looking for his attention and affection. I don't mean to punish him, but I need to worry about myself and my needs. I need to stand for myself. I was always a strong confident person and I think with him here it is just enabling me to become that person again.
If it would push him back to where he was then, that is a risk I will take. But having him here is not helping me. If that would be the case that he run back to her arms. Then all this work so far would be just lies on his behalf. An I will truely know how he feels about us.
The A lasted from may to july. He left for only 4 days, couldnt take being away and then came clean about the whole thing. I took him immediatly back. and for the 1st month it was wonderful. We worked thing out so well, but now he is done with it.Dosent want to talk about anything and the attention he first gave me is gone. I just think we started working things out way too fast, before it settled in with me.
Kim,how is it going? Are you still in counseling?If you decide for him to move out i hope you both still go to C.I at first asked my H to leave also.That only lasted a few days.I couldn't handle him being gone,so i let him move back in.It was hard on the kids also. That is when i told him i needed the 3rd party and we went to C.It made all the difference for me.Take care,K
I am very lost and scared today. Sunday, I told him how I felt about him moving out. I also told him that I need Ow completely out of his life. Even if he sees her just for a minute when she is picking her mom up. He needs to tell her,she cant come in the bar for any reason. I also told him he needs to make some kind of peace with my family. He completely alienated me from them. They do not know about the A but they know he has screwed me up big time. I told him that I need to feel appreciated and loved not because it is forced by me, but because he genuinely feels it. I think it was a complete shocker to him, he couldnt really elaorate on his feelings then. And he seemed okay with it. But today of course, I brought it up and asked how he felt about things and what I had shared with him. Well, it turned into a fight. He asked me why is it all in his lap. Why is it left for him to fix. That he has way too much stress, with the bar(business is really bad, and the owner wants to close it down),he's looking for a job, and now this. NOW THIS? What, is this new? That comment worries me, because the last time he felt too much stress, he ran out and had an A.But he also agrees that maybe he should move out. Because he knows this is not working right now. Which also scares me, because why can he so easily go. I thought maybe he would put some kind fight for that. I Am just so confused. I dont know if I am coming or going. I dont know how to work thru this. I dont know what I want. I just want this to go away. I hate my life sooo badly. It is so unfair.
He left so angry. I dont want him to be and I dont want to be sad. I dont know if I should call him to just smooth things over for today, or just ignore what happened.
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Which also scares me, because why can he so easily go. I thought maybe he would put some kind fight for that.
Please remember I say this w/love and I myself use the techniques you are using with our H. You "thought" he'd do xzy when you mentioned a drastic measure, that is call manipulating. You want him to do things your way, I'm the same, i'm trying not to be.
If you didn't think it was for the best, you shouldn't have brought it up, you wanted a reaction from him. You have your take on the sitch he has his. I too wanted to follow my H like a puppy and cater to his every whim, but every time I see him I stop myself, I train myself to go to another room and do something else, get myself busy.
Some people benefit from some time apart if they are toxic to each other. Was that your case? In my case I had to turn down my expectations a few notches, I couldnt' have the wild romantic lover my H used to be right now. Asides from the ML, we are learning to be friends, to treat each other right, to unlearn the wrong ways.
Yes, I do hurt because I do not feel love from him now, but I have to remember this process takes a long time.
Yes, it is unfair, it will be for a while longer. Give him some time to cool off, ask yourself if you'll become closer by living appart, I dont' know if you or both of you ever did C, now would be a great time.
This piecing business is as hard as having our Ss back.
Why would your family be against you? Oone of the things you can talk about (later) w/him is that in time you'd like him to go talk to them if that will fix things, maybe he isnt' ready to face them yet.
I've also just heaped an unhealthy dose of strain onto my H who's in training for a new job, I sort of feel bad, but again, he has to face up to his responsibilities. I"m a bit scared, but if he really wants to work things out he'll meet me half way.
When I thought about asking him to move out, I honestly wasnt being manipulative.At least I didnt think so. I do think it might be better to be apart for awhile. But at the same time, I am scared of him to go. And I just wished he didnt want to. Not that I has hoping, he didnt want to. That is one thing I have never done and never do, I dont play any kind of games, Because I know I would probably get burned.
We do go to C and he says he goes to help me get through this, Not for us, but for me. That just burns me, but anyway he'll go I'm fine with that.
I know my expectations of him are high at times. And I do feel I should take them down a notch too. but I dont want to compromise my feelings. I am hurting and he caused that. He did this to me and I want him to fix it for me. I really know deep down, that it cant happen that way, but I want it too so badly.
Ya know on Sunday when I told him my feelings, I felt so good and strong about things and myself. I felt confident in my decision. I told him that I needed to figure out how I can fix this for myself, not depend on him so much. Yesterday, I still felt great. But BAM, today...Im a blubbering cry baby, with no confidence back into my depression. If I am driving myself nuts, I am dtriving him nuts.
I always want complete honesty from all of you. I know that the truth usually hurts and that it will help along in this process. You all are looking in the best intrest. I appreciate pure candidness.
Thanx!
maybe manipulative was too strong a word, sorry, I don't think you took that decision lightly, you were very strong by reaching to that conclusion.
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I am hurting and he caused that. He did this to me and I want him to fix it for me. I really know deep down, that it cant happen that way, but I want it too so badly.
I feel 100% that way, he should be making it up to me but I'm the one who finds herself trying to please him. The sooner you understand that your H is still in no shape to fulfill your needs the better, it has hurt me to come to terms that my own H can't offer me affection and solace.
It took me a while to understand, and a few posters here to help me see that.
It's sad and unfair honey, I waiver a lot, "do I want a man that doesnt' love me right now and for whom my needs aren't a priority?" but be strong, this will sound corny but remember a song that said "how can be lovers if we can't be friends?"
What attracted him to you? be that person. We can do it. One day at a time.
It's a big decision, to have him move out, I don't blame you if you are hurting right now, I pray that whatever time you guys spend appart helps you see the situation from a distance and remind you of how far you've come, hugs))))
I cant figure out how to be strong without needing him so badly without coming off as if I dont care. I am so afraid that he will think that I dont. I can so easily get a chip on my shoulder. How do you balance that?
It's nice to feel needed, but not to have a needy person around. Carry on as you would before he left, if you find yourself in the same room as him most of the time, move on, go out and do something you like.
I can only think of one reason he'd think you dont' care, if you openly ignore him, otherwise be supportive without being overwhelming, do ask about his day but also let him do his thing, whatever it is he likes to do to relax, you know what he likes.
Again, remember how confident you were when you were dating, be that attractive person again. DOn't over analize things, I tend to do that too, or read too much into stuff.
I definately over analyze everything. That is a problem for me with everything in my life. I think I am gonna tell him that All this stress is no good for him and us, So he can put us on the back burner if he feels he needs to. I will still be here going through my daily climbs, But I will try not and let that effect him. He has a tremendous amount of stress from the business. And he literrally can not deal with all of it. All these stresses is hard for a "normal" person.But his brain capacity is very limited. It always has been. So on my "good"days I know I have to be the strong one. But those good days are so limited. I thank God for the good ones and pray for intervention on the bad ones.
Kim
my H has ADHD, because of that he can't handle stress, he panics and is easily overwhelmed, he can only handle one thing at a time, hence, his school work is first in his mind. For as long as I've know him he's gotten rotten jobs, this might be the best job he's ever gotten, he can't fail his classes, guess that's why he just can't concentrate 100% in us.
I totally understand, it isn't something he choose to do, that's the way his brain is wired. So I need a healthy dose of patience 'til all is said and done. His training isnt' over for a few more months, jeez...
I know my H as ADHD as well. He had it as a child, but now he refuses to get treated for it. I am trying to convince him more than ever to be seen by a dr. But that like everything else has to be put on the back burner. He too has always had crappy jobs, never lasting more than a year. But this one is the best he has ever had too and it is slipping thru his fingers.
Last post about me telling him to worry about the job stresses is out the window. I just got off the phone with him. I told him of all things he must accomplish,the most important is to get her out of his life. He tells me nothing is going on, fine I do suppose I believe that. But I told him that he has disrespected me enough, and I refuse to put up with it any longer. That to me is very important.I cant just ignore that he sees her occasionally, or she calls him sometimes. If it is over it needs to be completely over. I told him we will see what he values more. If he cant just do that, Do I really want him if he cant value me. I can work past his A but to be continually disrespected on a daily basis. I cant ignore.
You keep telling me, to be like I was when we met. Confident. Well that is what I am doing. I am standing up for myself. I feel like I am constantly being humiliated by him. It hurts like hell to give up a dream that I have had with him. But if he cant work as hard as I am, I may be better off. As hard as it is for me to say that or even think it. Some of the things that I have requested of him can be put off in time, but this one I just cant. I need my dignity back.
I told him, that I do need my distance if he cant honor me. Maybe I will be sorry for doing that, but I cant go on everday wondering if he has seen her or talked to her. I am just driving myself crazy here.
for crying out loud, another simphatetic soul!!!! living w/an ADHD person is something else alright.
I dont' know how much you both know about adult ADHD but I do know it plays a huge part on the break up of a marriage if both partners dont' know how to handle that. My H was on adderall for a while, first day he loved it, then to get the new job he stopped, also said it made him concentrate on one thing way too much. So he takes nothing, the only thing I try to do is supplement his diet with omega3 for whatever good that might do.
I go now and then to
http://www.adhdnews.com/forum/, that's where I learn lots about people w/adhd, man oh man, you need LOTS of patience, as if it werent' hard enough to deal with the daily strains of marriage one needs to be on the look out for many traits that can affect the relationship. I know that ADHD also has lots of positives, I dont want to put anyone down, but if someone isnt' medicated nor in therapy and in DENIAL it is mighty hard to deal with.
If you havent yet, please read the book "delivered from distraction" or "driven to distraction" by Edward M. Hallowell, an ADHD expert who's also a dr, and who by the way cant' take any meds becaue he is one of those people who isn't affected by its effects. Great chapter on relationships.
Because of the ADHD sometimes I feel my H has learn nothing and he also despairs because he sometimes falls back into old bad habits and forgets so much.
Went to C alone because H blew it off. But it was good for me. He is definately out of the house. We talked good about things, and he left on a kissy note. I truely think things will be better off. I just hope he can get out of this depression he is in. He absolutly hates himself. He told me so. Hates himself for doing what he did to me, hates that he continues to be a screw up, hates that he is terrible to our children. I told him he needs to see a dr for help, but he refuse to go still. I just enforced how much we love him, and will be here to support him.
Please pray for us!!
Thanx
Kim
i am very scared for him. I have put"us" on the back burner and am completely there for him now. I am scared to death of what he might do. He has a lot of guilt issues. Ijust keep enforcing how we love him and need him.
Sometimes in life we have to be the caregiver.Some people are good at it and others not.I think that you are showing how much you love your H by doing this.It is called unconditional love.No matter how angry you are, you will still be there for him.If he can't see through this now,that you are working on your marriage,he will realize it one day.When times get tough,the tough get going.I think you are stronger than you think.Praying for you,K
I do believe that I am strong.
He left on Friday to stay with friend, never packed a bag. Sat a.m. he took the girls for shoes, never packed a bag. Late Sat night after I knew he was done working (4:00am)I called him,just to tell him how much we love, care, and are scared for him. I couldnt fall back to sleep, then 6:00am he walks through the door. Crying his eyes out that he can not be away from us. And I was so glad he come home. In theory it sounds good for a seperation, but neither one of us can do it. I realize for now that I just have accept that he loves me, really know it. And not worry about how he can show me, or make me feel. I have to support him in everything.
I think that I have forgiven him about the A. I know I need to tell him that but I want to make sure that I have. Plus if I tell him that I am afraid that he will feel worse about himself. I would rather forgive him, than live a life without him.
I think I am on my way, but I have to help him.
Thanx!
Hi Kim,
Took me a while to follow up - I caught your post over on prplheather's and thought I would respond to your question. I had a look over your sitch....I would think there is a lot of hope here. And remember you always have that.
Look, on the GAL thing. For me, I just recalled back to what attracted WAW to me in the first place - when we were first dating - I was "unavailable", spent a lot of time with friends, mountain biking, skiing, etc. Over the course of the marriage, I "lost" a lot of my friends, was a homebody - pretty unintersting. Throw in the fact I wasn't paying attention to WAW's needs, my kids, etc. and it created a recipie for disaster.
So to GAL, I started picking up all those things that I had let go of so long ago. I started working out, lost 35 lbs, started playing bass guitar and going out with friends. In the meantime, I also wrote a life mission statement that pushed my focus back on my wife and kids. I got another chance to be a father and that has paid back ten fold - I'm closer to my kids than I have been in years.
All that said, I found an inner happiness and realized that my marriage was a preference and not a need. THAT single change I think is what has opened all kinds of opportunites. It was NOT easy, trust me.
Short story - for you - consider the things that attracted your husband to you when you were first dating. And beyond that - what things have you always wanted to do. I'm convinced that most people want to be around other people that emenate happiness. So when you find something that makes you truly happy you become that much more attractive.
One other thing and I hope it doesn't come across wrong - because this was a tought one for me too. My WAW has a lot of "baggage" from her upbringing. I cannot say if she would have "truly" been happy if we had D'd, but I cannot say would not have. I came to realise that all of that stuff is her's, not mine. I cannot fix her - she needs to do that herself. She tried for years to try and "fix" me - only to get frustrated and kick me out. It was then that *I* decided that I didn't like where *my* life was going and set a course to change it. I would say the same for your husband. I don't have any suggestions on what to do - other than insist that he get some good therapy - and/or keep up with the MC. That is good stuff - but be sure that it is solution oriented. It's much better to feel like you are working toward something. I too have a touch of the ADHD (don't we all?) and I know that when I feel like I am working toward something - especially with a partner, I find great satisfaction in working it through.
Anyway, hope that helps in some way....I'll try to keep following along.
Sven
Thank You so much for your insight.
I try and remember what attracted my H to me, It worries me because I feel it was for wrong reasons. He was a recently single dad. Not that I was a rebound R. But the mom ran out on the S, and left my H to care for him. Thier R had been over for sometime. And I, a confident nuturing woman took care of them. Gave them both the love that they deserved. I accepted his S right away and pretty much gave my H my life. I did stop doing the things I enoyed, to spend time with him. He could count on me at anytime. I guided my H to be the man he always said he wanted to be. But now 10 years and 7 kids later. It seems to have all changed. He had reached the man he said he wanted to be, the provider and a very good father and H. So I no longer had the time nor energy to "mother" him. So that is maybe, in his eyes that is he how he seen me caring for him. And being that I stopped doing that, he felt I no longer cared. But I want to be his wife not his mom.
Being that I put my "things" aside for now, he seems to be alot more pleasant. Now when he comes home from work, we have nice short R talks. He actually believes that we are fine. That he does nothing wrong towards me. I dont get that. I was able to coarse him into seing the Dr with me. I exchanged MC for a Psych dr. But we will see if he'll go. I dont want to stop MC though. But I was fearing for his health, so I thought anyway I can get him there. But now I am regretting the exchange. So since we are getting along maybe I can work on him to go to both.
I also had a revelation, After he told me about the A things were working so nice, other than my feelings about that, he was being the man I always needed him to be. Than it was like BAM it all stopped. It did when he had to start working doubles at the bar everyday. So I completely think it is the stress form over there. He is very serious about finding a new job, and I think that will have a big positive effect on our R.
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I exchanged MC for a Psych dr. But we will see if he'll go. I dont want to stop MC though. But I was fearing for his health, so I thought anyway I can get him there. But now I am regretting the exchange.
I also had to do that for a while, he was way down there and really needed some medication. If he isnt whole there isn't much he can offer you, my H would say that to me constantly during the lowest part of his MLC-Depress: "I am empty and numb, I got nothing to give you"
I so understand the parent-child R in a marriage with an ADHD person, one becomes the caregiver and while one spouse puts up with the bear's share. The other is carefree and wondering why the former is resentful, a cycle I'm careful not to repeat, I used to do everything for my H. By being in the "home improvement committe" I also thought and told him how much better he could do things or/and would do it myself. I have to bite my mouth a lot and just let him do his things even though "I know" a better way.
I too bite my toungue with alot of things. Which is hard for me because it is in my genes to be controlling and always right. My mother is terrible with my father and when I was young I swore not to be that way with my H. Most times I can do it, but there are times where I wished I just didn't open my mouth. But now, He hasnt done or touched a thing in this house. it is completely falling apart. It is because he takes no pride in anything in his life. There are holes in the walls, screens out of windows,broken door jams, broken bunkbeds, the girls need things hung in thier room, At least 3 major unfinished projects and really the list can go on. But I keep my mouth shut about all of that. I think that stuff is not at all important now. but I can complain to you guys.
Kim
obviously you havent been in my house, the bushes on the front of the house are almost as tall as the house itself, the jungle is eating the back yard and the house needs a coat of paint badly, if it isn't a "fun" project it isnt' on my H's agenda either (arghh!!! @#$@#$, ok, venting too)
*sigh* need a handyman here too, but by golly, if my sister can paint so can I! as soon as some huge bills are taken care of I'm painting my room, I don't care how it comes up, I'll do it myself.
Hi Kim and Cat,
Praying for you ladies.I admire your strength,with your H's depression.It is not easy.I have been depressed and it is really terrible,you don't care what you do,things get pushed aside.If you have the drive to work on your house you can do it.If you have a child that can help ,enlist them.I know you can't do it all,but a little paint makes a world of difference.Maybe your spouse will join in and help a little.Piecing is difficult but when you love each other i believe it can work.Take care,K
I have question. When H is depressed and you are the only one trying to help him through it. Is it a bad move to ask family members to step in to help. Without giving them all the dirty details. Will H resent me for doing so, or can it not hurt to have as many people that care aboiut him, show him?
thanx
Kim
When i was depressed i didn't want anyone to know.I hate being seen as weak.I also hate asking for help,so i struggled with anyone knowing.Now that i am better i feel like it is good to tell my story so it can help others.You will be surprised how many people tell you their problems once they find out you have some of your own.I would still tell only those that really would be helpful and not judgemental.There is a difference.If you tell someone that your H respects they might be quite helpfull in the situation.Take care,K
I am very much looking forward to what is to come for us. I know I cant get too excited, but H is actually willing and looking forward to seeing a Dr.
His brother gave him some support and H started acting great (for the moment). He went to see the Dr with me and liked her and agreed to continue to go by himself. YEAH!
He has been totally acting like he did after he told me about the A. Actually trying to work it out. I can see hope in his eyes and that is so reassuring. He is strong and the strength that I have for us will pull us through this. I do have strong hope and faith again. I guess I never lost it, but it faded awhile. I know its a long haul, but I know we are gonna make it.
Although I am sure next week I'll be crying again. But I am happy for the moment!
Kim
on the book I read about depression it does say that the more contact w/family and friends the person has the better, that way they dont' isolate themselves and think they are alone in this world.
BTDT, hang in there Kim, hope the dr makes a difference.
I am at a dead end. I do not know where to go from here. I havent given up, I just am lost. I feel numb from all the disappointment. We just keep going around in circles. Not making any progress. He was gone all day Friday for no apparent reason. I can not continue to be walked on. Everyting I have done and said has been done before. It is falling on deaf ears.
I am at a fork in the road. The way I see it I have 2 options.
The first being, I go back to work, putting 4 of my babies in daycare. I would completely hate it.
The second, Contine living with a man that is selfish and can not do anything for us except provide a paycheck and hope one day he will come around. I will hate that too.
So which life would be worse?
Kim
Kim,
It sounds like you are having a bad day.The roller coaster effect is here.It is wierd ,but my H had days that he seemed to not care also,even though he said " i'll do anything if you stay and work on M".I don't know how to explain those moods,one day i had a mood, then he would have one,then things would be good for awhile.This is why it is so difficult.
-I always thought to myself this is why GOD,speaks so against adultery in the Bible,he knows the terrible effects it causes.Then i would pick myself back up and remember " Jesus tells us to forgive".
-Only you know what you feel and what you will put up with.Situations are different for us all.I'm still praying for you,K
I have to honestly say that I have forgiven him for he act of adultry. I do truely believe that the A is over. But it is his actions now that are killing me. I think I may read more in the MLC and the infedility forum, because I do believe that he falls in those categories.
Kim
Kim...God Bless you if he DOES fall into the MLC categories....it's a wild ride!!!
Read the resources thread first...all of it. Some are testimony from LBS's, some from actual MLCers (former)....they really help a lot.
When I first joined these boards, I thought that mine was a case of infidelity and marital troubles that I could fix. When it continued to get crazier...I popped over to the MLC thread and almost wept at what I read....it described my H to the T. It helped so much just knowing that this was something real and others experienced....
So, take a read. He may not be MLC, but at least you are educating yourself.
A-14-
Thanks for the tip. I have started reading the resources and he does fit the mold. so for the time being I am heading over that way.
Kim
Hugs kim, I too didnt' realize until the whole ordeal was over that my H was in a MLC. Keeping you in my prayers, not that this sitch is one he didn't choose, but being the sole provider for the whole family is prob making him want to wander into la-la land.
You are correct. I know that the provider thing is the brunt of the problems. He is in a job that is failing and he cant get out of it because it pays the bills plus extras. The stress it causes is overwhelming. Plus he has nothing to fall back on. He is waiting on this railroad job but who knows if it will happen. If it does happen I think he will have an easier time to pull out of this. Not that it will be easy but a little better.
btdt, each time my H gets a job both of us always think "this one is so much better than the other one" and it just turns out to be awful. I do credit my H's new job/training with him pulling from depression and MLC.