Ancient as a stone, strong as the sea

Thank you Ms. Sage,

That book was a gift from D while I was still in my first marriage and I have still never read it. Neither did D. Guess we both should have.

I believe I will read it now.

Pam,

I'm absolutely happy to share my thread with you. Feel free to post as much as you want!

Sage,

thank you for the visit!

Good book suggestion. I read it a long time ago. It's probably time for me to re-read it!

Hugs to you both!

Hi again PIB,

As promised on your last thread I am letting you know finally got tail in gear.

New thread

Quote:

13) I need to remember that people don't value what they get for free. Most people value stuff more, the more they pay for it. By giving my husband me for free, I'm only hurting myself and our relationship. I'm only giving him permission to not value me.

Ok... so how do you not give him yourself for free?

HOn,

Great question.

Well, when I originally posted that little blurb, I was talking about my calling him. Basically, I was doing all the work of maintaining our relationship...all he had to do was sit back and wait for me to call.

So, at that point, I was wanting him to pick up the phone and call me.

These days, it is different. Little things, like our agreement of not playing EQ (something he wants) unless we've worked out first (something I want!).

Oh, and speaking of working out, the other night, I finished my work out early and left him to finish his on his own. He came to me the next day and told me that he found it surprisingly hard to complete the work out on his own without me there, sharing the struggle. That's great! Now he understands why I value his company in my workouts! Plus what a great compliment to me...he missed me!

Does that help?

Thank you for the visit and the great question!

Hugs!

Oh,

And a huge positive.

When he IM'd me this morning, he asked if we were going to work out together tonight.

He rocks!

Hugs all!

Quote:

He rocks!

Nope, You BOTH ROCK!!!! Together!!!!

Awww!

Thanks Pam!

You are most welcome and deserving. I am realizing how much so going back and reading your history.

Hi PIB,

I'm still reading but I see you have been off the Zoloft for over a year now.

Did you have any problems other than pretty emotional at one point and the blurred vision?

I have to start soon with the tapering off schedule the doctor prescribed for me.

I guess my fear comes from what happened the time I stopped cold turkey and the tapering off should be nothing like that, right?

Well, I am up to Monkey reading divorce remedy.

The next thread is when I started posting and reading your thread so I am almost current with you.

Wow is all I can say!

There were a lot of similiarities in our sitch's at times.

I now see where some of the advice you posted to me came from. Interesting to see what was behind it, makes it lots more understandable also. Or should I say it improves the sink in rate.

Hi Pam,

Wow, you have gotten so far!

I have to tell you, I've been putting off re-reading my threads because I was concerned about the scabs being re-opened.

But knowing that you are reading them has helped me go back and re-read them...trying to look at them from your point of view.

So, thank you!!

Also, about going off Zoloft, I don't remember any issues other than the ones I posted about in my thread. I tried my best to post exactly what I was feeling and thinking...I figured even if my marriage failed, if nothing else, I'd show people what not to do. So, in the interest of being helpful, I tried to post EVERYHING!

Of course, I think I did take a longish hiatus from the BB once I was fired from my previous job. I remember a week of panic while trying to find a new job...and being afraid that my career on campus was over.

But as you know...I got this wonderful job where I am now! So, it all worked out and I came back to the board.

As for where my advice comes from. Well, from the first time I started reading your posts I felt such a close connection with you.

I wanted so badly to help you avoid all the mistakes I made.

I'm glad you have taken the time to read my threads and understand where my heart was in regard to the advice I gave you.

That's so great.

Thank you for taking the time to do that.

Hugs!

Wow Pam,

This is very interesting...

I can see while re-reading my threads that I had some weeks where I called him practically every day. And some weeks where I didn't call at all.

I'm actually pretty proud of myself.

It was something I struggled with, but I had thought I was calling him every week without exception...and that was NOT the case at all!

Funny how memory plays tricks!

Hugs!

Good Morning PIB,

I spent my lunch and time in-between and the evening between laundry reading.

I hope my talking about your threads to you hasn't reopened any scabs.

I am finding them very interesting and that you dealt with and felt a lot of the same emotions that I went through. It would have probably been helpful IF I had taken the time to do this sooner. I seem to always be behind. I have never read Ms. Sage's history either and I may do that next. I have a feeling it will take longer than yours!

Well, if you posted EVERYTHING you didn't have near the junk emotions that I did.

I really appreciate the info on the Zoloft. I am just nervous about going off of it. I know I didn't want to go on it but either it or the meditation and hard work or the combination thereof have really helped me emotionally. I feel much more stable, except once a month and I still don't know what to do about that problem.

Yes, I noticed you were gone for quit some time. I am so glad you got the job you have now it sounds sooo much better than the one you lost.

I have always appreciated you even though I didn't always follow your well meaning advice. It is like I had to make the mistakes myself to learn from them.

Thank you PIB, you are a wonderful, strong, compassionate lady or should I say Sorsha?

I don't think you did bad at all, you experimented and monitored and found what worked for you.

Pam,

I understand your fears about weaning off Zoloft. I remember being scared too.

And I was hyper-vigilant at first, watching to make sure I didn't slip back into that black hole.

But, I have found what works for me. And exercise is key.

Have you tried the Body-for-Life system?

You can check out the website www.bodyforlife.com

I loved it because it made me feel like I was a tough bodybuilder, even though I was using 1 pound weights!

In fact, now that Husband and I are doing the workout together, the highest weights he uses are 30 pounds.

The dumbbells can be found at Target, Wal-mart, or Play it again Sports. If you have a Play it again sports, definately get them from there. At Play-It-Again, the dumbells cost 50 cents for each pound. So, 2 one pound weights costs $1.00. At Walmart-Target it was $1.00 per pound. So, if you can get them cheap, do so!

I started with 1 pound weights, 3 pound, 5 pound and 6.6 pound and 10 pound.

IF you were to decide to give this a try, I'd recommend getting yourself the:
1 pound
3 pound
5 pound
8 pound
10 pound.

(Skip that 6.6 one...it's silly!) To start with, you can always just use no weights to begin with. Just focus on learning the exercises!

I loved having a physical challenge. It boosted my PMA, my self-esteem, and continues to be my best weapon against depression.

And get this, exercise helps with PMS too!

And most libraries have the book, Body for Life.

Would you be willing to try this?

Let me know!

Hugs!

Pam,

Oh, and as I re-read, I realize, I didn't post EVERYTHING like I thought.

Again, memory playing tricks on me.

Based on my reading, I'd have to say that what I did was try to post only the positives. Then when I was feeling down, I'd go and read other threads...and come back and post what I found as a way to inspire myself...make myself feel better.

And don't worry about the scabs. Surprisingly, the only ones that bothered me were the ones regarding me parents.

Weird, huh?

Hugs!

I am glad only the parents ones bothered you and that sitch has worked out as well.

I think it is easier to read your threads again the way you did it. In my case I did post everything and I DON'T go back and read my threads.

I will think about the Body for Life. Right now I have quit doing any exercise at all and I know I would probably feel better if I would start back up. Even if it is just my walking tapes.

I had felt so bad with the tooth and then just sick afterwards I sort of just let everything slide. Trying to bit by bit catch back up.

Thanks for you insightful post.

I just came across this in one of my old posts:

I said:

He said he doesn't want to be responsible to anyone, not obligated to call and say where he is, not to have to explain what he's doing.

He said in his mind, that's what marriage means.

I explained that our marriage will be how WE decide it.

So, he's told me that he has an important need to be independent and not tell me where he is or what he's doing.

At this point in my journey, I can trust that he's not out doing harm to me or to our relationship. He just needs to feel that he's his own person.

Well, looks like this is still important to him.

Good news is this weekened he's going to go camping.

I'm trying to get all my chores done so that I can play with my mom and have a much needed day to myself to play!

I've been suggesting things for him to take with him, offered to help him pack.

And I've showed him how excited I am for him.

I think he appreciates my attitude a lot.

So...go me...I need to keep it up.

Hugs all!

Hiya Nitaf!

Thank you for visiting me thread!

What insight helped you?

Hugs!

Wow, PIB! Did you handle that conversation well!

I didn't realize it but it really does boil down to a basic trust issue, doesn't it? I always felt closer if Mr. Wonderful called me from where he was... hey, I'm a girl, and the fact that a man calls to tell me he's thinking of me does not escape unnoticed.

But the fact that your H told you this is a boundary for him is a biggie. And you handled it with dignity and grace and decorum. I'm so proud of you for choosing to see this from this POV.

Heck, I appreciate your attitude a whole lot. GO YOU!

Betsey

Hey PIB,

I changed my mind why don't you come and see me now?

Then you can help me organize and please give me a neck and shoulder massage as they hurt so bad I feel like crying.

Pam,

I'd love to!

Unfortunately, it must stay a fantasy for now.

My Cainer Cast:

You are embarking on an exciting adventure which is due to last for some while. You can sense this, which is why you feel edgy or apprehensive. You are not sure that you are ready for this particular undertaking. The cosmos, though, thinks that you are more than prepared for the challenge and it really does not intend to hang around while you equip yourself with more safety mechanisms. It is important to recognise this and to proceed with confidence... because, actually, the only thing that can cause you a real problem now is lack of faith in yourself. There's nothing wrong with wanting what you most sincerely want.

Hugs all!

Hiya Peoples,

Just checking in briefly.

Not feeling good today.

Am home from work.

Thinking of y'all.

Hugs.

feel better

Nitaf

Hi PIB,

Sorry to hear you aren't feeling well.

{{{{{{{{PIB}}}}}}}}

Nitaf, Pam,

Thank you both for the visit and comfort.

I think I just have a minor cold...shivery, achey, fatigued.

Blech.

Poor me!

Hugs!

Good Morning PIB,

I hope you feel rested and well today!

Sending you some sun shiny get well wishes if that isn't the case and if so have a wonderful sun shiny day!

Good Morning Pam!

Thank you for the well wishes!

I'm back at work. Still feeling a bit weak, but am happy to be back at work.

So...

I don't know if anyone who currently reads my thread remembers about the ex-girlfriend my husband had. They dated for 5 years before I came into the picture. They broke it off when they went to college...except her daddy works for an airline. So, she'd fly my husband out to visit her when she wanted a booty call. And she'd kick out whoever her current boyfriend was.

When he and I started dating, her phone calls to him increased. I spent the week with him and she called every night that I was there.

Once the week was over I told him that it seemed like the two of them had some unfinished business and that I didn't want to be the cause of any problems. He assured me that there were no issues, that she was just a friend.

And he told me that he definately wanted to continue to date me and was not interested in her.

We continued to date for about 5 months. He invited me up to meet his family for christmas.

While there, he called her on christmas eve. She wanted to come visit him.

I asked him please to not do this. He insisted they were just friends.

I told him if he slept with her it was over between us.

The night we got back to his apartment, I overheard his roomates telling him he was being stupid. To not have the ex over.

Again, he insisted nothing would happen that they were just friends.

He picked her up from the airport by himself.

She and I had a private talk in which she told me that she always thought he'd be hers forever. And that she was just dating while in college.

I told her I was sorry for her pain, that I understood where she was coming from, and that I had no problem with them being friends.

They took me back to my college and she spent 3 more days there.

He did cheat on me and lied to me about it.

And didn't confess until after we had been married a year...and only because I badgered him into it.

She continued to contact him after our marriage.

I would flip out each and every time.

It caused great mayham.

The last time she called, she had already gotten married herself.

She and a girlfriend called our house. Husband and I had just finished making love, it was midnight, and the phone rang.

It was on my side of the bed.

I answered and they hung up.

This happened twice more.

Finally husband grabbed the phone.

The girlfriend of his ex began speaking to him, asking him if he remembered his ex.

Then ex came on the phone.

I realized who was on the phone and reached over and hit the button to hang up the phone.

Then I took it off the hook and started screaming.

At this point, we'd been married for 3 years and she was still calling.

I handled myself very badly of course.

No grace and dignity whatsoever.

Full blown panic attack...althought I didn't realize what it was at the time.

We plotted our plan and then put the phone back on the hook.

As soon as it was back on the hook, the phone rang.

He picked it up. Verified that it was his ex.

And said to her, "I thought you were happily married now, why the [beep] are you still harrasing my wife and I? Leave us alone!"

I was relieved cause he had FINALLY stood up to her and told her to get out of his life.

Life continues. Anytime a girl looks at him funny I freak out.

Lots of distrust on my part. Lots of shame on his part.

Sigh.

Fast forward to our separation. I let go of a lot of anger, told him I forgave him everything.

The whole time we were separated he didn't not call her, contact her. Told me after we reconciled that he just wasn't interested.

Fast forward again to yesterday.

He comes home and tells me that she emailed him.

Cont. in next post.

About 3 months ago, I had snooped around on the internet to find out where she was and what was new in her life.

Hoping to find out that she had kids.

I found an online church bulletin announcing the birth of her 2nd child.

Told husband and we agreed that we'd probably never hear from her again.

After all...it'd been years now.

He has this sweet notion that once a woman becomes a mother she won't cheat on her husband. After all she has tiny children to take care of.

Last night I gently told him that that was not the case all the time.

Anyway, back to her email. I haven't seen it. He offered to show it to me.

I told him I was very grateful that he told me about it right away.

I told him I was not ready to see her or to handle the situation.

That I wanted us to stay focused on our work outs together so that if she does show up on our doorstep I'll feel confident and ready to handle the situation. Emotionally I mean.

He finally understood where I was coming from.

At first, he wasn't listening to me. Kept brushing me off. Kept saying there wasn't an issue...that she was just touching base. That she's a mommy now...she couldn't possibly be chasing him again after all this time.

And he told me that he didn't want to talk about it.

I was furious and hurt. Shades of the past.

He saw that I was hurt and angry. Insisted that we talk about it.

I told him that I felt like he was brushing me off like he used to.

That he wasn't hearing what I was saying. And I reitereated what I said about not feeling ready to handle it and that I wanted his help.

He said he was very sorry. Didn't mean to make me feel that way. And that he understood.

I asked him how he would want me to handle the situation if I'd had an affair, lied about it for years, ignored his concerns, denied there was any issue.

He put himself in my shoes and said that he wouldn't want me to respond to the email.

I said, Ok, then let's go with that.

So, that's the plan.

Today, I haven't brought it up again.

Felt like I delved too much into the past last night. Too much conversation, too intense, and I'm sure he needs a break.

And my playing the 'oh, I'm such a victim' song only makes me feel worse...so going to stop doing that today.

Of course, I have dozens of fantasies playing in my head...such as calling up her mom or her preacher and telling them the sitch.

(Evil chuckle.)

Don't worry, I won't.

So, any feedback? Suggestions?

Hugs all.

Sage said:

Power? Heck, I had plenty of POWER for the first 7
years of my m. and we both paid dearly for it. I am
infinitely happier NOW that I've come to realize that
being an equal partner with my husband means being as
respectful as I can of who he is as a person, an
individual and not viewing his gains as my losses and
visa-versa.

That just speaks to me sooo much.

Thanks Sage.

Hugs.

You handled this sitch with grace and repect.
I want to be like you when I grow up!
Nitaf

Nitaf,

Aww, thank you! I really appreciate the validation.

Hugs.

The thing is...

I want to feel indifference towards her and her intrusion.

Husband has already shown that he feels indifferent. If he didn't, he would have contacted her when we were separated.

But, instead of feeling indifferent...I feel inadequate. However that is spelled.

Which is ridiculous, I know.

I don't know who she is...all I have is some fantasy person in my mind who looks like her.

I have what he's told me about their relationship. The little I know based on my very few interactions with her.

She's just a stranger whom I've built up in my mind as this larger than life creature that I can't compete with.

Yet, I know that's not true.

Why would husband have married me if she were so wonderful?

Why would he have come back to me if I'm soo terrible?

I know, I know...black/white thinking again.

Thanks for listening.

Hugs all.

Well,

I sat down with Husband.

I told him I wanted to chat with him.

That I was struggling and didn't want him to feel like he had done anything wrong. And that I just needed him to be a friend and listen to me.

And I told him what I wrote above.

And told him that I was afraid that he and she belong together.

He just very matter of factly said that 'She was boring.'

The only fun thing she ever wanted to do was ski.

And that for only half an hour.

That's not who I've been picturing in my mind!

The person I've been picturing was an adventuress.

I feel much better. And he scored some major points with me and showed himself to be a good friend.

I'm off to eat dinner.

Hugs everyone!

Yippee! That you and H were able to sit down and talk about this difficult for you sitch!

Hope you have a wonderful evening.

Good Morning!

Thanks Pam!

I feel so much better this morning.

I got a good nights sleep.

Husband is off to go camping tonight and will be gone till Sunday.

And I'm ok with it!

It's helped sooo much that he gave me 2 weeks to adjust to the idea!

Now I'm looking forward to it!

Also, during our conversation last night, he told me that when he first got the email, he asked himself, "Now what do I do to make sure this doesn't ruin my marriage?"

The Husband I knew before separation would have been focused on seeing what he could get away with and being sneaky.

This new guy is focused on us being a team!

How incredible is that?

When he told me that, I couldn't help myself. I started crying. Happy Tears!

He said, "Don't cry!"

I said, "You've just made me incredibly happy. Do you know what a big deal that is to me?"

Folks, she was the one thing I was still afraid of.

And now I don't have to be afraid anymore!

How incredible is that! Heck, now I'm happy that she emailed!

The power of DBing....

Hugs all!

I am so happy that you can put another feather in H's cap.

Nitaf

Hey PIB,

I just wanted to check direct rather than guess.

You weren't upset with me over my post about not being unstable were you?

I wasn't trying to say that you were implying that I was unstable.

I only mentioned I wasn't because of my past history on the bb.

Have a wonderful PIB pampering weekend!

PiB,

Thanks for stopping by my thread. That is good that your H answered your ?'s and did not get defensive.

Have a great weekend!

Nik

Hi PIB,

I figure you might not be interested in these since you do the BFL.

water bar bells

Hiya Pam,

Thanks for the link! That was very thoughtful of you!

Husband and I are talking about doing the BFL food plan as well.

I'm getting really excited and hopeful!

Also, have requested the doc increase my thyroid meds...

So, hopefully, I'll see some results!

Hugs!

Hi PIB,

No weekend update? Wondering what all you did with your free time.

Did Monkey have a good time camping?

Pam,

Thanks for asking!

I didn't feel very well yesterday again...so wasn't being very talkative.

But, I'm feeling much better today!

So, when Husband was out camping, I created a new character on EverQuest and got all obsessed and involved with that!

Had a great time!

And I really needed that time to myself.

On the other hand.

People are probably going to smack me with 2 x 4's.

You know how much I've struggled to have a good relationship with my mom. Well, she and I have become best friends.

So, I've been telling her about some of my struggles in my relationship with Husband.

Trying to get her advice, comfort, support. Whatever.

Well, yesterday on the phone, I was talking to her about my thyroid...and how I'd been doing research on the internet. And what I found out.

Her response...you are depressed not because of your thyroid, but because Husband went camping all weekend long and didn't tell you where he was going.

That upset you, we both know it. And any relationship where one person takes off like that is not a healthy relationship.

That hurt my heart.

Is she right?

Or is she just speaking from what she knows?

Husband and I have been making great progress.

And he told me 2 weeks in advance that he was going out and spending the night elsewhere.

I don't believe he's cheating on me.

I think he just needs some time to himself.

And he's been struggling to deal with the calendar. He hates the calendar, sees it as chains. I love the calendar, see it as a very neccessary part of family organization.

So, I understand Husband's need to just go and be himself.

Heck, that is what I was doing with my new EQ character.

And my mom's dismissal of my health issues as all in my head...sigh.

I'm not sure if y'all can understand where I am with this.

But basically, it is very frustrating to be doing everything right and still feel fatigued, not be able to lose weight, to START losing my hair again, and to know that there is no way I can get pregnant and keep the baby unless I get my thyroid leveled out.

(Hypothyroid, unless properly medicated will lead to miscarriage.)

Sigh.

I'm thinking I need to find a girlfriend.

Pam, I'm thinking the same for you.

How can we go about doing this? Is it like dating?

How do you find a best friend?

Hugs!

{{{{{{{PIB}}}}}}

No, you aren't wrong and I'll be back later! Girlfriend!!

So glad you feel better today!!! Think positive thoughts.

A friend of mine says tell yourself: "I'm alert, I'm alive and I feel Great!

She always gets a smile out of me when she says it.

Thanks Pam!

I like that... "I'm alert, I'm alive, and I feel great!"

Well, I was thinking people would smack me for telling my mom personal stuff about my relationship. And I wasn't sure, but I thought I might be doing black/white thinking again. That's a constant struggle for me!

I'm thinking I should probably not tell her anymore. But she's like a ferrett...if something IS wrong, she keeps asking questions till I tell her. And then she's all hurt if I don't tell her. And of course, if I say nothing is wrong at all, she keeps questioning until she finds SOMETHING wrong.

Of course, she has a lot going on in her life right now, a lot of stress...so she may not be so concerned with me at the moment...

So perhaps now is a good time to experiment with this?

Dunno.

Also, I've been complaining about everything again.

And I need to stop. It upsets Husband, doesn't make me feel any better.

It's a bad habit.

I think the most positive results I got with Husband was when every word that came out of my mouth was either factual or optimistic.

So, I've got some goals.

I've got a best friend from High School that I'm still close with. Perhaps I should just look at enhancing that friendship rather than trying to find a best friend.

So, that's goal number one. Focus on the friends I do have and try to increase the friendship.

Goal number 2. Focus on increasing the optimistic things I say. Decrease the complaints.

Goal number 3. Attend my doc appointment on wed. Explain to him what is going on and ask him to let me try some different thyroid meds.

Any feedback? Suggestions?

Hugs!

I think your goals sound very good!

Your mom I think is like mine in several ways. That doesn't mean we can't be their friends, just that we have to be aware of their shortcomings and our own.

I share some things with my mom but not the in depth details. I have a couple of friends that I do that with, but as a general rule it seems to work best with someone from the bb.

So I also e-mail Sage, Calystra, Zoo & Pattie some, plus chat on Yahoo with DBers. They just understand what I am trying to say, do and am going through better than my other friends.

So with my other friends I am putting the main focus on other areas of my life!

Make sense?

BTW: I didn't see black and white thinking and I know for me when I don't feel well, my thinking is more negative and I am more emotional!

So today give PIB a break and start those positive thoughts working!

Thanks Pam,

I feel much better!

Sending you hugs!

You are welcome!

Good, I'm glad.

Hugs back girlfriend and have a great positive day today!!!

Great news!

I've been researching on web some more about my thyroid.

In 2003 they revised the range of the TSH test.

Before revision, I was considered normal.

After revision, it's obvious that I'm not.

Now hopefully, my doc will pay attention!

Hugs!

Yeah, Go PIB!!!

Good Morning PIB,

So is today when you see the doctor? I am so hoping he can adjust or change your medication!

Have a great day today Girlfriend.

Pam,

Today is the day!

I feel so encouraged and hopeful!

I'm armed with a letter and lots of information to back up my request for the med switch.

Keep your fingers crossed for me!

Oh, and my best friend from high school called me last night. We have a date for August 8! Woo hoo!

Hugs!

WHOO HOO!!

Sounds great.

Will keep my fingers crossed for you, be sure and let us know how it goes.

Absolutely!

Hugs!

He switched me over to the new meds!

I raced to my pharmacy and had them fill out the prescription right away.

I'll start the new meds tommorow!

Oh, I'll be so happy if this darn fatigue goes away!

Hugs!

Yeah!!!

Hope this works for you.

OH me too!

I should start feeling better within 2 to 3 days.

Hugs!

In time for the weekend, that will be really nice.

Good Morning Peoples!

Welp, today I took my first dose.

I read on a website where someone started taking Armour Thyroid medication. And within 6 months, she was able to go on all day ski trips! I can't imagine having that much energy again.

But I'm soooo excited.

I don't expect to feel like I did at 16...but am hoping to at least only feel like I'm 30...instead of 50.

How different will my life be? I can only imagine with a huge smile.

Hugs all!

That is great!

I wish I could take something that would give me some more energy.

Keep us posted and I am so glad he changed your meds.

PIB - I didn't know (or maybe I forgot

)you had thyroid problems too! Is this new? Didn't you know I'm the thyroid queen - I've been hyper, hypo, and I'm a physician to boot, so you can ask me anything!

Are you going on Armour thyroid? Is this a change from Synthroid? There is an excellent book by Ridha Arem called the Thyroid Solution which you should read. He addresses the issue of people who seem to need T3 as well as T4 in their supplements.

OB/GYNs have known for years that their infertile hypothyroid patients have the best chance of successful pregnancy if they keep their TSH between 1 and 2 - I figure, if it's a good range for fertility, it's probably a good range for everything else too!

Ellie

Ellie

Hi PIB~

I had my Thyroid gland removed several years ago. While I'm not experiencing any dramatic changes I am very interested in keeping up with latest information and properly managing my medication.

Are there web sites that have been particularly helpful?
What is the name of the new medicine you were given? Any info you have would be great!

Thanks PIB and have a great day!

Blessings
Water

Water -
old standards used to be that a TSH anywhere between about o.6 and 5 (depending on the lab) was normal. New standards recognize that if your TSH is above 3 or 3.5, AND you have symptoms of hypothyroidism, you may need treatment. As I posted, infertility patients who are hypothyroid do best if their TSH is kept between 1 and 2, so that's the range I shoot for myself (god forbid I should get pregnant though!!

). A few months ago my TSH slipped to 4.5 and I felt HORRIBLE.

It is a good idea to take your thyroid supplement on an empty stomach in the morning, an hour before meals. This ensures consistent absorption, since food can interfere with absorption (but if you currently are taking yours with food, and you switch to an empty stomach, your levels can go up, so be careful).

Ellie

Hey Ellie! Hiya Water!!

I had forgotten, Ellie about you struggling with this!

Well, I've been hypothyroid since right before husband and I got married. I am 99.99% positive that my depression/energy were all thyroid related. Turns out that a whiplash can contribute to the problems. My mom was hypothyroid...so I know it runs in my family. But for years my Husband had been saying that he thought he caused my depression.

Well, I told him about the whiplash theory...and yes, my problems did start after a car accident I was in with my college roomate. I did have whiplash. So, I told husband...all this time, you thought you were the cause...but it was really all MA's fault!

He was amused...and I think relieved.

I tried taking kelp supplments for years...that didn't help.

I got the blood tests done and the docs kept saying I was in the normal range. Most of the time my tsh was above a 3.

Had all the symptoms and they just wouldn't listen to me.

Grrr.

Moved to my town and my doc did listen. He started slowly upping my t4 but I had to take a blood test first.

Since I tend to get faint, about 6 months ago..I said "that's enough!" Took a 6 month break. But my hair started falling out recently...and Husband and I have been talking seriously about babies!

So, I got bloodwork done on the 19th of July in preparation for going to my Doc and asking him to up it again!

Well, I decided to go online and my search led me to a post on another bb:

It doesn't really matter what medication you are taking, so long as it includes T3 itself, or you are on a T3 supplement.

Synthroid and Levoxyl do not have T3.

The reason you need T3 is because this is the hormone that your thyroid gland produces that regulates energy levels and metabolism.

Because your body produces more T4 than T3, and your body naturally converts T4 to T3, many doctors do not provide T3 directly. This is a mistake because although T4 naturally converts to T3, replacement T4 does not convert to T3.

For example, my mother was undiagnosed for 12 years, and then finally put onto Synthroid. Although this was a life saver, after 20 years of Synthroid she was really noticing that she wasn't as active or healthy as she would like. I convinced her to see my doctor in L.A., and he put her on a T4/T3 replacement. Since May 0f 2002, my mother has lost 32 extra pounds simply by her medication changing. It's wonderful to have a metabolism that works, and T3 is the only way to achieve that if you are hypothyroid.

If you have any questions about this, you can e-mail me at thyroid~justice.com [thyroid AT justice.com], or you can check out my web site [that is still in the developmental stages] at http://diagnosis.4t.com

Margie

Which led me to the following links:

Dr. Lowe's page

Marjie's Thyroid Journal

So, yes, I've switched from 100 mcg of Levoxyl to 1 grain of Armour Thyroid.

I want to be in the best shape possible for having a baby.

Oh, and according to Dr. Lowe's site, just going on the meds. won't make a diff. You MUST eat right/exercise/take your vits.

No problem!

Husband and I are going to switch our exercise to the morning. If I have energy from this t3 medication...I can exercise in the morning and still get through the rest of the day! How amazing that would be!

After over 2 years of struggling with my weight (Ie dieting via Weight Watchers or Atkins), I'm hoping this will make a difference! That I'll actually see results from my efforts!

Sorry...this post is so long! As you can see, I got quite obsessed with getting switched to Armour Thyroid!!

Hugs!

Oh, Ellie,

I told my doc yesterday about the new standards...he just dismissed it.

But, actions speak louder than words!

He switched my meds and that is what counts!

Hugs!

PIB and Elle~
WOW thank you so much for all of this information!

Elle- is there a difference in any of these levels since my Thyroid gland has been removed?

Sorry to hijack

Water

No Problem!

Ask any thyroid questions here! I've got tons to learn!

Hugs!

Hiya PIB!

I've been meaning to ask you how WW is going for you? Any more reasons to celebrate over here?

Bets

Found it!

How to write a letter to doc

Hugs!

Hiya Bets!

Hopefully with my new meds, I'll start seeing some results!

Where is your new thread?

Hugs!!

Hey PIB,

Was just thinking maybe you'll get the energy to work on your labryinth again.

Just thinking of you.

Nitaf

Quote:

Because your body produces more T4 than T3, and your body naturally converts T4 to T3, many doctors do not provide T3 directly. This is a mistake because although T4 naturally converts to T3, replacement T4 does not convert to T3.

PIB - actually, this is not completely correct.
Your body DOES convert replacement T4 to T3. However, in many people on replacement, the RATIO of T4 to T3 never quite gets to what it is in healthy people without thyroid disease. Most people convert Synthroid to T3 well enough, and they do fine on Synthroid, But some people don't convert it as well (certain supplements like selenium may theoretically help this process).Those who don't convert T4 to T3 that well may experience symptoms.

However, T3 supplements are not without problems. T3 is unstable and is metabolized quickly, so it is not as suited to a once daily dose as Synthroid is. And Dr. Arem feels that the amount of T3 in Armour thyroid is too high. (Also, you get a big "peak and trough" effect with the T3 going high and then low over 24 hours).(Although I certainly used to have patients who did well on it.) He uses cytomel, a purified (and therefore more standardized) dose of T3, and gives it in a small dose two to three times a day. Of course, this is hard to do, to be consistent about taking something 3 times a day.

Ellie

Pam, Nitaf, Ellie!

Thank you all for visiting!

Ellie...I'm still learning about this stuff...so I apologize for any mistakes I made! Thanks for the info!

Hugs!

Good Morning All!

Husband and I got up at 5:00 am this morning!

We did our workout!

I feel good!

I was scared because I thought if I worked out in the morning that I'd be absolutely drained and wouldn't have enough energy to get through the day.

But, instead, I find that I'm feeling relaxed and alert.

I don't feel like running laps, but I am feeling content.

Husband was great. He didn't yell at me when I woke him up.

Course, last night before bed, I made him promise to be nice when I tried to wake him up...he said he'd do his best!

And he was nice!

Hugs all!

Good Morning PIB,

Great!!!!!! So glad you feel good today. I really think I will feel better if I start exercising again. So that is my goal for next week.

Have a great day.

PIB --

Quote:

I was scared because I thought if I worked out in the morning that I'd be absolutely drained and wouldn't have enough energy to get through the day.

I suspect you may find that the opposite ends up being true...h and I work out in the AM (get up at 5:10) and while it's rarely easy to drag myself out of bed...the days I DON'T do it are the ones that I feel drained and low on energy.

GO YOU! (and H!)

Sage

Thanks for the encouragement Sage!!

Sending you Hugs!

Welp,

It's 2:35 in the afternoon and I'm ready for sleep.

Oy...

But, that's not too bad.

And they say the first day is always the worst...so hopefully by next week, I'll be able to make it all the way to 5!

Hugs all!

Have a good weekend!

Nitaf

Dropping a quick line to say ... Hi PnB!

I wish I could convince CAW to have her thyroid levels checked. Seems to be too many symptoms to be a coincidence, but she doesn't see it that way.

End of shift already, but will drop by again tomorrow night.

'til later,
KAW

Hiya Peoples!

Nitaf, KAW!

Thank you both for the visits!

I had a fabulous weekend!

I think the t3 is kicking in. Was dancing around in front of my husband and his jaw dropped to the floor.

His face completly lit up and he grabbed me and hugged me close.

Told me he hadn't seen me EVER dance like that and that he was delighted.

I told him, "Wow...AND I felt no anxiety about driving his brothers around town. The t3 must be working...it's subtle but must be working!"

His response..."It's not subtle at all...it is VERY obvious to me!"

So, his brothers visited. They taught us how to play "Magic" the card game. Very complex. But we had a great time.

We celebrated my mother's birthday with dinner and a play.

Brothers and Husband loved this play...was a good one for them to see.

It was called, "I hate Hamlet"

Husband stayed up all night long with his brothers, screwed up his sleep schedule. So we did not exercise this morning. But we plan to exercise tommorow morning.

I'm still experiencing fatigue...but as you can see, my mood is definately improving!

Hugs all!

PIB,

You sound GREAT!!!!

Good Morning Peoples!

Husband and I worked out this morning at 5:00 am. I feel good and got some Flylady stuff done!

Hugs all.

Good Morning PIB,

So are you continuing to notice a difference on the new medication?

Yeah for you guys working out this morning!

Hey Pam,

I'm not sure yet.

I've been down because a friend of mine passed away recently. She had a massive stroke. She was 54...too darn young. I've been trying to deal with my grief. And it's strange for me. I don't know if what I'm feeling is normal grief...because it feels exactly like depression to me.

So, yesterday was a really bad day, mood wise.

But, since Husband and I worked out this morning, the endorphins are kicking in and I feel much much better.

So...I guess the short answer to your question, Pam...is I'm not sure.

Hugs!

PIB -- I'm so sorry about your friend.

I'm glad, though, that you and h are working together to get those endorphins flowing!

Sage

I am very sorry to hear about your friend.

I understand the grief and think you should expect it, that it is normal.

I am glad you feel better today.

{{{{{{{{PIB}}}}}}}}

Sage, Pam,

Thank you both for the hugs. They are much appreciated.

Hugs back.

Hey PIB! ((((PIB)))))

I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. Grief can look like depression, sweetie. Don't be too hard on yourself. I've worked in hospice for a good chunk of my life, and want to tell you one thing I learned along the way:

Grief looks different to every single person.

Let yourself feel the emotions, PIB. Your friend was important to you, and it's healthy AND normal to feel loss when someone is taken from you.

(((((PIB))))))

Bets

Thanks Bets,

I really appreciate the reassurance.

Sending you hugs.

Good Morning PIB,

Sending you lots and lots of Warm thoughts and hugs today!

I know grief has to be worked through because if you don't I think it causes more problems later.

Just don't forget to live as well. I did that and I know where that can lead.

You have a wonderful new R and wonderful H and you are WONDERFUL!!!!!

Have a great day.

Love you girlfriend

Hiya Pam,

Thank you for the hugs.

I'm working through it.

I feel much better today. Didn't work out with Husband this morning..but I think I'm still riding on the endorphins from yesterday.

Also, the service WILL be held...and that was part of my problem.

Her daughter is in charge of the service and the things I was hearing about her daughter was causing me to feel that not only was my friend gone..but she was being disrespected.

So...I feel better now.

Hugs!

I am so glad to hear you feel better and the service is going to be held.

PIB,

I am sorry about your friend. You have lots of folks who are thinking about you.

Jet

Good Afternoon PIB,

Wanted to check on you and give you a hug.

{{{{PIB}}}}

I hope your day is going well.

Hey Pam and Jet,

Thank you for checking on me.

I've been having exciting adventures in the kitchen.

I bought "Saving Dinner", a book by a friend of Flylady. There is a free sample menu on the website, www.savingdinner.com and I've cooked 2 of the meals from that.

Husband and I spent 2 hours searching for the items on the grocery list, that Leanne provides. Great exercise, feet hurt, got something accomplished.

We are liking the meals...food tastes good. I checked out the weight watchers points. The meal last night was 7 points, the meal 2 nights before was 6 points.

Not bad at all!

Hugs all!

Good Morning PIB,

That sounds great.

How is the exercising in the mornings going?

Are you still noticing a difference since your medicine change?

Good Morning PIB,

Don't we get an update?

Hiya Pam,

I know I've been scarce lately.

The service is tommorow. I'm looking forward to it...I really need this formal goodbye!

Been pretty busy at work so haven't been posting much.

Also, school starts next thursday, so am gearing up for that.

I'm doing pretty well.

Y'all are in my thoughts.

Hugs all.

Hey Folks,

I attended the memorial service on Saturday. It was beautiful and touching.

I got to visit with a couple of good friends. Was disapointed that more of my friends didn't show up.

But Husband went with me and I was very happy and grateful to have him there.

We got up and worked out this morning at 5:00 am. Go US!

I cooked Leanne's Jambalaya Pasta, from the sample Menu Mailer. www.savingdinner.com Yum! Husband liked it. I took the left overs to my parents and they were fighting over it. Was a big hit!

Hey, look at me...I'm cooking!!

Hugs all.

Whoo Hooo!!!

Go You!

PIB -- I'm glad the memorial service gave you a chance to both say goodbye but also to reacquaint with some old friends.

As for the cooking...h and I just bought our first crockpot a few weeks ago and I christened it yesterday! Made a delicious vegetarian lentil stew (sweet with molasses but spicy with cayenne!). I couldn't believe how the "all day" cooking required NO effort on my part!

Sage

Pam, Sage,

Thank you both for dropping by and checking on me!

Guess what!?!

We did it! We got up for the 2nd day in a row and exercised...did cardio!

And...get this...it's 5:00 am...still dark out...and we spot a very black shape in the garden of the house we are about to walk past.

Then I see glowing eyes and the shape does a hand stand with it's tail all puffed up in the air.

Husband announced, "skunk!" and we both stopped.

He clapped loudly at it and it ran off into some bushes.

How freaky is that??!!

I've never seen a real wild skunk before. We looked it up on the internet after we got home. Apparently, the spotted skunk is noted for doing handstands.

You can read more about this vicious fiend here:

Skunk site

Aren't y'all proud of us? We risked life and limb by walking at 5:00 am!!

Hugs all!

LOL

That was a nice help to wake me up this morning!

LOL!

A few years ago h and I had a similar experience -- out at 5am for a walk in our neighborhood -- dark as anything. We walked down the street and saw a black and white creature in front of us. H (no doubt bleary eyed from the early time) crouched down and said "here kitty, kitty". It took me a moment before I screamed "SKUNK" and ran the other way ("I don't have to run faster than the bear, I just have to run faster than YOU!").

Sage

PIB,

I have encountered alot of skunks in my day but I must say I have never seen one doing gymnastics. Must be the Olympics spirit.

Jet

Sage, Pam, Jet,

Thank you all for stopping by!

Isn't that handstand the craziest thing?

Apparently it's common for spotted skunks...as opposed to the striped ones.

Pepe LePew was cute...this guy was just scary!

Hugs!

PIB,

LOL about the skunk. That's too funny.

Hey, I checked out some of those recipes, but I haven't tried any. I've been thinking about subscribing, but I've been hestitant. Sounds like you've enjoyed them? Are they simple?

I love FLY Lady. I've been being good lately and trying to keep up with my missions, or at least my hot spots.

Hey Mal!

Thank you for visiting!

I would try the sample recipes first. See how that goes for you.

I've cooked 3 of the meals from the sample recipe and each was easy and even fun to make. I still have 3 more meals to cook before I dive into the book.

Great job on keeping up with your hotspots! That's such a big thing!

Sage, you were right...the days that I exercise, I accomplish more. I'm still adjusting to waking up at 5:00 am...but today, I did it again! Husband wasn't feeling well, has a sore throat...but I did my work out anyway. And I started a load of laundry before my workout, switched it to dryer half way through my workout and hung up my shirts after my shower. Now I just need to put the rest away when I get home.

How cool is that?!!

I have a desktop calendar at work. I've been using my blue and pink highlighters to draw purple stars on each day that I work out.

I love seeing those 3 stars in a row!

I wonder if they have those star stickers these days still. If so, I'm going to look for purple ones! I'll put them in the calendar I keep in my purse.

What fun!

Hugs all!

Ya know what PIB?? You've given me a few hugs lately, its about time I pay you back.

((((((((((((((((((((PIB))))))))))))))))))))

And its just because!!!!!

and 5 AM to work out??? I remember those days (and in the winter, it was dang near north pole weather!)

Lots of smiles your way!

Triple J

Hey TripleJ!

AWWW...thank you!

I really appreciate the hugs and visit!

Hugs!

Good Morning PIB,

Did you get a purple star this morning?

I am fine, was out last night and fuzzy today.

Hey Pam,

Funny you should ask. No, I didn't get a purple star this morning...I got a pink one. Someone swiped my blue highlighter!!

Grrr!

Tis ok. I think pink shows up on my calendar better anyway!

Hugs!

But you got a STAR!!!

Hey Pam,

Giggle...yes I earned another star on my calendar!

New thread:

2nd Grad class and Body for Life

Hugs!