moving forward II -- it's a bright, sun-shiny day!

(Some background... xrm=exroommate, the female friend he moved into our 2BR apartment after he kicked me out, since he needed help with the rent. She was not his first choice for roommate. xrm is, most likely, crazy.)

It was a nice weekend.

Saturday we went shopping with BIL2. H thought it would be funny to tell BIL2 that I was pregnant. (Both BIL2 and MIL have been hounding us for kids since, basically, the day we got married.) He didn't quite believe us--maybe the giggling had something to do with that

--but the joke went on for waaaay too long. (Does anyone else think this was a weird joke for him to come up with??? Makes you wonder what else was on his mind...) I have been wanting a kid for some time, I just know it's not the right time yet. After a few hours, H finally confessed it wasn't true (MIL was dissapointed). I didn't realize how much I had gotten into it, but I was really down afterwards. H wanted to take a nap before work, so I went with him to his room.

I was still clearly sad. H asked what was wrong, and I said I was just kind of disappointed. I asked if we could make the joke true, instead.

H then, completely serious, said, "Sure. Why not. We can start right now." Caught me completely off guard. I came up with some lame reason involving my BC why I couldn't then, and he said we could try next month. I really, really wanted to. So bad.

But I told H that we didn't have the money. I don't have insurance. And there are still a few things left I want to do before I have a kid. He told that was okay, but if I wanted one now, he was okay with that, too. (This, from the guy who was never going to get married, and definately didn't want kids...)

Wound up going to the club where H works with BIL2. It was ridiculousy busy, so BIL2 and I just grabbed a table in the corner. H was too busy for me to bother much, but he did tell me later he wished we could have actually talked more.

Sunday was good, too.

Very nice waking up with H.

I told H I was taking back something I said. That I had called him manipulative when he confessed one of his main motivations for the sep was he wanted to improve our M. It sounded so contradictory to me at the time I was thoroughly ticked off at him. But I told H that I understood now. He told me he hadn't been able to come up with a better solution, and he just wished that he had done it differently. I told him it was okay, I really did understand now why he did what he did. I asked him if that made him feel better, and he said it did.

H has taken to leaving his phone in the front room at night, so he doesn't have to get woken up if xrm calls. She calls even when she knows he's asleep, which is really just rude. She had called only a couple of times in the last day (which was a welcome change), and only left one message. Saying she was going to the tattoo parlor in a few days, and wanted to know if H could go with her to pick out her tatto. (Okay, I could really rip her here for her stupidity, but that's a whole other argument on tattoos...)

It took me a few minutes to realize how funny that really was... I then asked H if she knew I had gotten my tattoo a few months back. He said he had told her, and that he had told her how sexy it looked on me. I then asked him if he thought she was just doing it to get his attention, since that had worked for me. He laughed, said he had thought of that the minute he heard the message, and was pretty sure that was true.

It started storming just as we were about to leave for errands. An absolute wall of water. H offered to move the car closer to the door, so I wouldn't get as wet. I actually think it started raining heavier after he got in the car! You could just see the sheets of water coming down.

And I was thinking about how he could have brought me an umbrella, or we should have just waited... It's still a bit of a walk, and I was very obviously going to get soaked.

Then I realized there were two ways to look at this. I could whine and b!tch about something that was out of my control--and, really, just didn't matter. Or...I could realize that it was a hot summer day, getting wet wasn't going to kill me, and I could see that I have my wonderful H back and everything else in my life is pretty good, so why waste the energy complaining? So I took off running in the rain, I'm sure looking like a complete moron in my sandals, and just laughing the whole way to the car. I was still laughing when I sat down inside, my front completely soaked. It must have been infectious, because it made H start laughing too. I must have looked ridiculous!

Life is what you make of it...

(This is where I got the title for my new thread...from the storm and the rain.)

While we were driving around, H mentioned he did feel sorry for xrm. Since, even though it was all in her head, the pain was real. (At least we're on the next phase of his getting through the EA. And, he has been griping about her more and more...) I agreed I did feel bad, since I knew what that kind of pain was like. He pointed out I didn't have much sympathy, since she was after my husband. I agreed with him, said I didn't have sympathy for anybody who went after a married person. They should realize what they're setting themselves up for--I don't care what their reasons are. (Maybe "excuses" would have been a better word.")

Later, we got my dog and went to his house to watch a movie on BIL2's really big screen TV. While we were there, she called again, and H didn't pick it up. The vmail she left him went on about how she knew she was being annoying and she wouldn't want to talk to someone who was being like her, either. The whole thing was incredibly long-winded, and he kept making the funniest faces while he was listening. He concluded she was just trying anything to get him to talk to her again. He's completely refused since her little speech that sounded like she was "breaking up" with him.

This is a good demonstration of why pressuring doesn't work. He had initially wanted to still be friends with her (before he decided she was nutty and believe her own fantasies). But her incessant calling (=pressuring) has really driven him away.

H deep friend some shrimp, doing the breading himself. He kept asking if they were good, how I liked them...so I made sure to compliment him a lot.

We watched Secret Window, which has infidelity leading to divorce as part of the central theme. I hate how watching these kinds of things can really just remind me of how much hurt I've been through. At one point, the OM-turned-bf shows up at an insurance meeting. The H (Johnny Depp) is pretty ticked off at his intrusiveness, and his just including himself in something he didn't belong.

The irony here is that H was agreeing with all of Depp's snide, snappish responses. (A little on the strange side...) The whole scene really upset me. We wound up having to pause, because I needed a break. H got upset because I was getting mad, and I told him I needed a minute to calm down so we could talk like adults. He followed me to the bathroom, and I told him I needed to use the restroom, but he kept pressing for me to talk. (This is a typical pattern for us in a fight.) I told him I really did have to go, and then we would talk afterward. He finally agreed. (This whole thing is kinda funny now, I was actually standing there squirming and crossing my feet over and over again.)

So I took my time, made sure I was calm. H had gone downstairs to check the food--and we wound up having a nice, calm, productive conversation!

I told H that I felt like Depp's character--both with xrm and OW during the first sep. (Wow, I've never actually been able to call the w**** that before...yeah for my own progress.) That I felt like he had allowed other people to get into our business, and get in between us, when they had no right to be there.

H asked if I trusted him. I told him that wasn't the problem--I trusted that he loved me, I trusted that he never intended to hurt me. But I didn't trust human nature. I said that I was frustrated with him, because I felt like he had allowed things to go to far, both with OW and xrm. He pointed out it wasn't a PA with xrm, and I agreed with him, but it was still really sickening to move out of a place that you have with your H, have some other female move in, and then it become rather obvious that she was after him all along as well.

He told me he had been very, very careful to not cross that line with xrm. (Okay, IMHO, there are several lines that shouldn't be crossed. A PA is, yes, the worst. But I think he did go over several others...mainly, when he let xrm shove her way in between us and move into that place.)

Then we started talking about our own personal "rules" to prevent affairs in the future. I had been wanting to share mine with H for awhile, hoping that he would see that they made sense, and maybe follow them as well. So I explained to H that, for me, I wasn't going to allow myself to become too close to any guys. That means no really personal, in-depth conversations. No hanging out at either person's house. Really, no going out just with me and the guy. Hanging out is okay--but it should be public, and preferably with other people. So, going out to a club or to a coffee shop would be okay in my book. And, inviting BIL2 along if he's available. (BIL2 is in a whole different category. He's, essentially, safe, being my brother. That's just too much of a yuck factor to ever happen.)

H actually completely agreed with me, and ticked off his own conditions...which were pretty much the same as mine!

No personal conversations. Hanging out in groups. No going to/having someone over of the opposite gender. (Unless the other spouse is there, and that's even questionable.) And inviting me out to wherever if he thought someone was getting too interested in him. He said he had never done that before, because he felt I hadn't enjoyed that type of activity, and he didn't want me to do something I didn't enjoy. But now he feels like he can ask me to come along.

I told H that made me feel a lot better. That I wanted to ask him to do those sorts of things, but that I felt like I had gotten too demanding after OW the first time, and I didn't want to be that way.

I also told H that, what would make me feel better was if, the next time I felt someone was interested, he would just listen to what I'm saying. That I had thought xrm called too much, and he completely dismissed what I had to say. That, in the future, what would help me feel better was if he would say, "I understand your concerns. I see why you feel that way. Here's what I think..." And he said he could do that.

I told H what frustrated me the most was that H didn't see that she was trying to wedge her way in between us. That, I had thought after OW, he would have realized it. And I was so frustrated because he kept saying "she's not saying the same things as [OW]," and I kept thinking "That doesn't mean she's not interested!"

He said that he didn't realize that xrm had just wedged herself in, until she was sitting across from him on the couch and stealing his money. (Doesn't this sound like, essentially, something in DR on how affairs get started? The person thinks they just "wake up" one day with the feelings, and don't see the steps leading up to it...)

H then told me something really interesting--and I hadn't ever thought of it this way. He told me he had never really had people pursue him before. That it had only started happening in the last couple of years. That, before that, he never got a whole lot of attention. So he really felt blind-sided by these two people trying to get in the way...he had never had that kind of experience, and wasn't used to it, and so didn't recognize it.

Which, as strange as it sounds, makes complete sense. H was always telling me how he could never go out with the girl he really wanted to, how he never got any kind of attention. I was always the same way, too, when I was younger. He just honestly never thought about it, because in his mind, he didn't get that kind of attention.

It was actually a really good conversation. I think we both got at a lot of stuff that was troubling us.

Of course, I also don't know when to quit...

So I kept asking him questions. I asked him later about when xrm had asked to stay the night at his place because it was close to her job at the bar and she was tired (after I was gone and her bf at the time was out of the country) if he thought, now, she had some kind some other motive behind it. I honestly hadn't given that one a second thought myself. He said he thought that might be the case now.

The phone at the house rang, and H asked me to answer it, telling me he "wasn't home." It turned out to be MIL.

Later, his cell rang, and he didn't recognize the number. It rang again, later, with a different number, and H went to answer it, but didn't get to it before it went to vmail. He wondered out loud of xrm was trying to call him from different locations in an effort to get him to answer.

I later asked him about something else that had always bugged me--why she had asked him to move into the spare room, instead of moving in with her bf, if she needed to get out of her mom's house so badly. He said she had told him that it hadn't worked with her and the bf living together before, so she didn't want to go down that road again. (Could be true...kind of makes sense...I don't know...)

Then I asked H if he felt like she had set it up to leave her bf so she could jump to him, next. He told me he thought that might be true.

I had asked these off and on throughout the movie. I think the theme of infidelity leading to divorce had gotten to me. H told me then that he felt like I was digging, trying to find out if he had been with her. I told him that wasn't the case, that all of this helped me work things out, and as I got each little piece, I was better able to move on. And, that I would stop asking questions. I just needed the answers for awhile. I also told him that I believed him, that if there had been anything else, he would have told me by now. I asked if he wanted me to stop asking questions, and he said no, he didn't like me being upset, and wanted to know what I was thinking.

But I didn't listen to him. If I was upsetting him, I was pushing too much. So I stopped. I might have fallen into that self-perpetuating cycle again, and if he was uncomfortable, then it wasn't unproductive anyway. So I just let go of the other stuff that I was thinking of. When he did ask me if I was okay, I just said that I was tired.

He drove us back to my apartment, and was very sweet about putting me into bed. Rubbed my back, and stroked my hair, until I fell asleep.

Nevanna, just checking in. So glad that things are working out and also glad that you are thinking your way through piecing so as not to fall back on bad habits. You are doing great!

GBO

I had a pleasant evening.

Had to run by my parents' house because of a weird car problem, but then I headed home. We decided I would run by my place to change clothes, then meet H for the gym. He called me later because he missed me, and wondered when I was going to be there. I had stayed for a little while to feed the dog and do some stuff around the place.

When I got over to H's, he was wrapped up on the computer. Which kind of irritated me, since he had just called to say how much he missed me. So I went downstairs to watch TV. This has been an effective tactic for me in the past. I used to hang around, waiting for him to "wake up" and give me a little attention. (I only wanted an acknowledgement that I was there!) However, I learned that if I leave the area, H will eventually (usually doesn't take too long) come looking for me. Which fills my emotional need, without me whining or being clingy.

It worked again, and H came down a few minutes later, and said he was ready for the gym.

The gym was fun. H spent too much energy jogging, and was pretty tired when we got to the weights. I asked if he wanted to go home, and he said no, he wanted to finish. A little while he said he was out of energy, but insisted we stay. I suggested an energy drink. That helped some.

While we were working with different machines, H started chatting with three other guys. Very street type. One had on a dew-rag and those large, gold chains--the kind that go down to the middle of your stomach. They looked like the kind of guys who would fit right into a rap video.

I heard them all laughing, and just assumed they were chatting it up about typical guy things--locker room talk, or tattoos, or something of the sort.

When H came over later, he told me that the four of them were talking about babies. Babies! (LOL!!) ASSumptions...

H then asked me if we could leave. Said he was really tired. I only had a little left to do, and he did offer to stay, but I said it would be okay to go.

H also told me how much it irritated him when xrm would call and wake him up in the mornings because she "missed him." (He said that while he rolled his eyes.) I told H that I tried to be considerate and let him get enough sleep, since he works nights. He told me he doesn't mind when I call, since he likes to hear from me.

As we left, H asked me if I would stay over at his place. Said he wanted to get some stuff done, but didn't want to go the night without me. So we swung by my place to pick up some clothes and my dog.

While we were there, I gave him a big hug, and asked him if he missed living with me. He nodded his head so rapidly I swear I could hear a rattle.

H did tell me that he misses being able to go out with me. Since he works weekends and I work days, there's an obvious clash there. I refrained from pointing out that it's pretty much his doing that we are this way. I could tell it really makes him sad, especially when I talk about plans to go out with other friends or his brother. The couple of times I've had an extra day off, he's managed to find something else to do so we couldn't go out. I think I'm going to try and get him out on a Sunday night, since all the bars close down at midnight anyway, and that wouldn't make me too incapacitated the next day (especially if I don't drink too much).

We also talked some more about how to rearrange my living room. There aren't a whole lot of ways to do it, since it's fairly small. While I was gathering stuff, H was nice enough to shove things around. We decided it looked nice, so I think it's going to stay that way.

He keeps emphasizing that it's "my" place, yet he also talks about what to do with some of his stuff there and what he wants to add. LOL. I think it's cute, though.

After we left, while we were driving, H asked what kind of car we should get for when we do have kids. I said I thought we were fine for now--mine would be okay with one kid. H then said we should consider getting something bigger now anyway, to be prepared, since we're going to have several. (Mak, you reading this???)

I voted against a mini-van--too soccer mom. (No offense to stay-at-home-moms/soccer moms, it's just not my style.

Kind of like I hate the color pink and things like flowery wallpaper. Just not me.) SUVs got ruled out since they are easier to roll over than other vehicles. I suggest some sort of sports sedan--a larger, four-door car, but that still had some pep to it when you drive.

I have a thing for sports cars.

It was late, but I agreed to play some monopoly on the computer with H. These are the kinds of things that are important to him. I lounged on the bed while he ran the game for me, until I was nearly falling asleep.

H did mention that one time, he found xrm wearing a shirt of his. A shirt BIL1 had brought back from the war over Christmas for H, and that H had yet to wear. (Hellooooo, yet another big neon flag that she was waaaay to comfortable with him.) He told me he got mad at her, that she gave some excuse about "not having anything to wear." (H hates it when people get into his things, and she would have had to have gone into his room, his closet, to get that--without his permission. He probably would have let her wear something if she needed it, but the point is that she didn't ask.) And that he felt that the shirt was "tainted" now.

I asked H why he didn't think that was incredibly obvious, and he recited the whole thing about how he was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. That he knows he comes across as interested in people when he's not, and thought she was the same way. I can understand that, but there are just sooo many things that the more I hear, the less plausible that is. Although he did proceed to gripe about all the things she just helped herself to that were his. (Big pet peeve.)

The whole thing really ticked me off. Maybe because I was tired--I'm grumpier when I'm tired. I should have let it go, but I kept b!tching about it. I need to apologize to him later...

H came to bed very, very late. It was hot, and I remember being sprawled out on my stomach. When he layed down, he put his head on my back.

Very sweet. And when I got up, he pulled me down a couple of times. He'll deny it, but he does this all of the time.

Two days, and nothing from xrm...

Still nothing from xrm...woohooo...I'm going to do a little victory dance.

Just got off the phone with H. He called me because he missed me.

I had sent him two cutesy messages earlier--one text (ILY, in Spanish) and a sappy vmail.

H told me that the dog had been good when he took her back to my place. He also said there was a "suprise" for me at my place--but he wouldn't tell me what it was. I asked if it was cute, and he hemmed and hawed. Which probably means it was an Act of Service--his primary LL. (I'm hoping now that he cleaned out the litter box...

)

He also mentioned he picked up some more classic games on PC (Clue and something else), so we can play on the computer together. He must really like the suggestion he made about putting the loveseat over by the computer in the little dining area (sorry, no dining table--it was bumped in favor of my computer

) so we could mess around on the computer together.

He keeps coming up with cute/sappy things we can do together...

I mentioned to him that I am eating with my parents once I get off of work. He hedged around that one, as well. I told him I knew he didn't want to go--then provided him with an easy out, mentioning he wouldn't have time, since he has to go to class later. I offered to get him some take out, and he liked that idea.

Which reminds me. I need to figure out a way to smooth over the edges between my parents and H. (Especially with all of the recent talk of having a baby.) They've had a problem with him ever since he called him them up and told them to come help move my stuff.

As weird as it sounds, I've been planning on snapping at them the next time they make a snide comment or give one of those looks. I realized that I had started doing the snapping thing with H because that has always worked with my parents--in a weird sort of way, it makes them stop and actually think. With H, it does the opposite--puts him on the defensive. Duh, different approaches work with different people.

So I've been waiting for a good opportunity to have a crack at my parents. I've had different responses cooked up in my head to various situations, but haven't been able to use them yet.

No more playing nice for me, so I don't "ruffle any feathers" on some sort of "special occasion"--since that's pretty much the only time I spend around my parents, anyway.

Besides, I don't want my mom treating H the way she does my brother's gf. She badmouths the gf in front of my brother's S3--which is completely inappropriate. She's not going to do that with my kids. And if I think she might, she won't get to watch them without one of us around.

But that's way ahead.

Anyone else have advice in this area? I'm sure it's got to be a problem for more people than me.

Nevanna-
I have had problems in the parental area as well, as recently as Father's Day. That has mostly been my extended family, and my dad a little. My mom has been pretty accepting of my H, since I told her we were in counseling and both doing pretty well at taking responsibility for our actions.

I've kind of had to make the choice with my family - I asked for permission to bring H to a family gathering once, and got negative comments about him. So I didn't go to that one. The next time, I told him to come anyway, and the uncle of mine that he has been closest to told him he was welcome in their house anytime.

I made the mistake when not-so-fun stuff was happening of talking to my family about it - that's where their negative attitude comes from. It seems like they are guided by my attitude. I never act ashamed of being with H (and since you seem to be an independent sort, I bet you don't either), I speak positively of him if he happens to be brought up, and I act relaxed and at ease when he and my family are both around. That seems to have worked for me, and me not coming the one time seemed to help, honestly.

Just my two cents,
Myrrh

Hmm...thanks for the input.

Well, I am sure they know we are no longer seperated. They've seen us together once since the whole mess, and we were acting pretty affectionate and all. I have also made sure to talk about him, like I would normally, around them. I'm hoping they'll get the hint.

Right after the whole explosion, when H and I first started talking again, I remember sitting on the couch with my mom, and telling her I knew we both contributed--and she kept trying to defend me, and tell me that it was all his fault. Now, I know their my parents, but I'm only human, and of course I contributed.

I think my mistake, as you said, was during the first sep, I went and spent the night at their house one time. It was when H had hit the point where he was calling me every 20 minutes, and I refused to take the calls. (Long story. Hadn't found DB yet.) I certainly didn't tell them everything, but I told my mom enough that she's been hesitant about him every since.

The worst part is, I went there and told my mom on the advice of a C.

Worst decision I ever made. It's caused nothing but problems.

Then, this time, H actually called my parents and told them they had to come help me move all of my stuff out because we were getting a D. My dad has pretty much been mad at him ever since. My mom, after we moved my stuff out of the apartment, had the gall to tell me that she "wasn't surprised" and had "seen this coming"--that it was better to "cut the losses" and get on with life. (Not the most comforting thing to hear!!)

I get the impression that my H would like to repair things with my dad, at least. His dad is a deadbeat--my dad was the closest he ever really had. And I know it really hurts him.

Okay, just got home, and I can't figure out what the surprise from H is.

I know my place is still messy from the move, but this is just silly. I wanted to be very enthusiastic about it, maybe leave him a vmail...but I'm just baffled.

I had been thinking, while I was driving to meet my parents, that maybe whatever the surprise was he did it to make up for me being mad at him last night. Of course, then I realized how inane that whole nonsense was--I was mad at H...for xrm wearing his shirt without his permission... WTF??

I think being mad is just my reaction now instead of getting hurt. Still doesn't excuse my getting mean with him. I need to put the whole nonsense behind me. I hope she goes away soon.

Still trying to figure out what H did in my apartment...

Well, when H called me after class, I just gave up and asked him what the surprise was. He sounded confused that I had missed it--then asked me how my door lock was. It had been sticking really badly. So I went back to the door, and started fiddling with the lock--and, well, he had sprayed some stuff in the lock to lubricate it, so now it turns nicely again. I guess I was so excited to get inside, I missed the obvious.

After H got home (and he gave me a big hug) his phone rang. It was xrm.

I was hoping she had gone away! Ah, well. Not so lucky. So he went outside to take the call. He wasn't gone long. He didn't tell me what they said, and I was trying not to be nosy, so I didn't ask.

We had just started to fool around....when the phone rang again. (Guess who...) He made a face, and decided to ignore it. And it rang again. So we went in the other room. A few minutes later it rang a third time before it finally stopped.

H cracked he should have just grabbed it, as if he didn't know who was calling, and said "I'm busy trying to have sex with my wife right now." Yeah, that would have been good to do with the crazy person.

He didn't check his vmail for a while. I finally had to ask him what she had said on the phone to him earlier. I apologized, just said that it made me feel more reassured. He said he hadn't intended to keep anything from me, just thought it wasn't important. (And my curiosity was killing me.)

She had wanted to know "what he was doing." H asked her why she was always so concerned about his activities. He told xrm that she was starting to freak him out. That she needed to stop. That he really hated it when she called him in the mornings to wake him up. That he still wanted to meet her somewhere, but that he would call her, not for her to call him. So, really, not much of a conversation anyway. (Although she did keep calling him back. I'm dieing to know what was in the vmail.)

He did complain some more about how irresponsible she was. How she rarely paid her share of the bills. How she took things of his that he wanted back. (Or, at least, lost them--a sheath to a decorative knife, some nice drawing pencils, that sort of thing.) How, at one point, he even needed to borrow money from me to pay his rent. (Now, I am sooo glad I did that--he was more than greatful, he actually paid me back, and it made him madder at her.

) And how she never even paid him for the last month that she was there. He even commented "She is so weird--how did I not see this before?" (Ha! I remember him telling me that "he knew her pretty well" right after he moved her in, when I voiced concerns about him getting the land line in his name, since she actually didn't have good enough credit to do it herself.)

I never made it to the gym. We were curled up together for too long.

(My LL being touch.) I'm going to stop waiting on him to go the gym on the nights he has class. We never get past the "I missed you" cuddling in time, on those nights.

H also said, twice while we were laying down, that he wanted a baby....

BIL2 then called, something about rearranging H's stuff in the garage. H then talked to him about moving the love seat into my apartment, before going over to the house.

I decided to finish what I had started earlier--waxing the floors. I figured I had enough time, since it only takes 20-30 minutes to dry (according to the bottle), and it's 10 minutes one way to the house. So at least 20 minutes of driving, plus whatever time to load the truck and then unload it at my place.

Well...I was wrong. Maybe I put it down too thick. I don't know. So they show up with this love seat, and the wax in front of my door isn't dry.

Whoops!

It was pretty comical--watching them stretch so as not to touch the part of the floor where the wax was still wet. BIL2 had one foot in the doorframe, and one on the carpet, while they moved the couch in. LOL. It was very sweet of them to go to all of the effort because of my miscalculation. (And fixing the wax would have been a pain in the butt.)

H left with BIL2 again, but said he would be back, since they don't like to run the AC over at the house. I had to go to bed, then. Not sure when he came in, but it was late, and I was pretty asleep. But it's still nice to wake up with him there--although it always makes me want to stay in bed.

Nevanna-
It sounds like you're doing all you can to help foster a good impression of your H with your parents - honestly, mine have said some completely moronic and cruel things about H and my relationship with him. The more he is around, the more my mom seems to accept him, and since my dad is pretty distant from our whole family, I am not outrageously worried about that. My uncle saying what he did was a big deal, because he actually was close to my H.

I wonder if xrm realizes that the more psycho she acts, the more she pushes to two of you together - you two are defending your couple space against The Malevolent XRM!!! I think she is kind of absurd with her jealousy and possessiveness.

In our case, one my H's former friends who is now in a serious relationship with one of H's former OW's is the one who won't leave us alone. It is a pain, especially when you are putting the past behind you and trying to move forward together. I have to say again that I LOVE reading your posts, because it's great to see day-to-day progress of your R and M.

And the wax thing was so cute!

Myrrh

Keep doing what you are doing. Let XRM keep doing what she is doing.

Nitaf

I remember the first time I waxed my kitchen floor, at another place H and I used to have. Both H and BIL2 were thoroughly fascinated with how shiny it was. They both stared it for several minutes LOL. I just like it because, well, a waxed floor is easier to clean.

Well, I called H around noon. Just because I miss him. He was asleep, missed the call, but called me right back. H said he was having a strange dream anyway--that I was running around with a new group of friends, and totally ditching him. I resisted the urge to point out that that is exactly what he's done to me--twice. Instead I just reassured him, told him I wouldn't do that, and that I loved him.

I had kind of wanted to ask him about those vmails xrm left. (I'm dieing of curiosity--the soap-opera drama of it all just really pulls me in!) But he was really groggy, so I let him go back to sleep.

Was still missing him when I went to get some lunch, so I left him a direct vmail, just said that I loved him, nothing special.

Things have been pretty quiet today. H mentioned last night that he was going to try to do the face-to-face convo with her tonight. (In a public place, right by a busy road.

) So, we'll see. That should be interesting.

I'll let you guys know.

So I sent H another ILY text. (He always liked that kind of thing.) H called me a few minutes later--said he had just woken up.

We talked some. He said he was going to go work on his car. I asked if he was still planning on talking with xrm tonight, and he said he was. I then said I was going to go to the gym on my own then, since he was going to be too busy to go with me.

I finally just asked him what the messages were from xrm. Said my curiosity was getting to me, but that he didn't have to tell me. He said that she was inviting him to go to some club with her friends that night. Then the next one was to tell him she wasn't going after all.

So nothing major. Nothing really out of line.

H did tell me about another dream. Said in the dream, he became close with this whole family. But then the mom started really hitting on him--really obviously flirting with him. And, in the dream, she asked him to come over for "something important" on a day when her husband and kid weren't going to be home. That he could tell she was setting it up for some kind of liason. He said the dream made him very uncomfortable.

So that's two dreams in one day that, if I'm not reading too much into them, in some manner relate to our sitch. He must have a lot on his mind.

(This post gets into some of my and H's personal views, which may not be the same as other people's. Not trying to start a discussion on the topic, just relating what happened last night.)

I had thought H wouldn't be at my place when I got home yesterday, but he was.

He said he had stayed so that I could see him for a little while.

I was feeling really needy and clingy, and basically wrapped my arms around him and gave him a sad puppy dog face when he went to leave. And admitted I was just feeling clingy and needy.

Said there was no reason. He said he felt bad leaving when I was like that, but I told him it was okay. That I must have just really missed him. I even stepped out on the deck to watch him go to his car. He did ask me if I wanted to swing by his house later, and I said I might.

After he left, I was okay, and went about unpacking some more. Being busy is a good way to handle myself when I start feeling clingy.

H called me after a couple of hours. Said he was hungry, and asked me to go shopping with him. So he swung by to pick me up. After we go out of the grocery store, H and I were messing around, and he wound up saying something like "If you feel that way, just walk home."

So I started walking.

I figured he wouldn't let me get too far, since it was starting to get dark. (Although I didn't live far, and I do love walking.) I made the mistake of looking back a couple of times, which he saw, so he kept letting me walk. When he did get in his car, he drove right past me, waving my house keys at me.

Of course, he didn't go too far before turning around to let me in the car.

H asked me if I wanted to play some games with him on the computer. The love seat in the corner turned out to be perfect for this.

I told him I loved that he had come up with that idea, and he told me he was only trying to think of ways for us to be closer.

We played Life for a little while, then Monopoly. It was nice and cozy.

We also talked some while we had dinner. H said it frustrated him that he couldn't have female friends anymore, but that it obviously didn't work. That he was mad because people kept trying to interfere with us.

And he's not just talking about xrm or the w**** from before. I had a "friend" who tried to hook me up with her cousin when H and I started fighting. His "friends"--which he recently dropped--wanted him to hang out with them all of the time......called him constantly...and would get irritated when he had other plans. (Which is why he isn't around them anymore.)

H said he just wanted to have some friends, but that he's so sick of people interfering with us. I laughed, told him they didn't know what they were dealing with. He kind of smiled, said no they didn't. I pointed out that people had been able to distract us--both of us--temporarily, but never really pull us apart. He just commented he wished he could have some friends again.

I told him I knew it sucked, because I like hanging out with guys, but that it obviously doesn't work. I pointed out that that was why I like to do things with BIL2--there's nothing ever going to happen there. He said that he was tired of people having a hidden agenda. That all he had wanted was to be friends with xrm, but that she obviously wanted more than that.

We talked about how men/women can't seem to be just friends. I had never, ever believed that to be true--until about nine months ago. H and I always said we thought that was crazy. And now we both see why it's not. I told H that people are wired to procreate, wired to have affairs, and it's a hard thing to prevent. H agreed with me--saying we're all basically animals, and it's that drive to breed that gets us. So basically, no more opposite gender friends for either of us. My own rule for me, and H seems to agree now.

I asked H if he was still planning on going out. He asked--rather jokingly--if he "needed my permission." I said of course not, if he wanted to go somewhere he should, I was just curious. I just asked him to, if he stayed in, clean out the litter box. (Still trying to get that thing clean!!)

H played some more games on the computer, and asked me to stay on the short couch beside him. I asked if he just wanted me close, and he said he did, that he would move me to the bed later.

He never went out, but he did come to bed really late. Said he was sorry for two things. I asked him what. He said the coffee he had had earlier. And then for all the stuff that's happened. I told him it was okay to be sad, just come get a hug. He might have said something else, but I was pretty out of it, and I just rolled over to hold him. Although I do remember mumbling something about wanting a baby. H said we could start now. I said sure...the only thing stopping me is not making enough money. (I'm going to wind up pregnant soon if I'm not careful!!

)

Although he didn't clean out the litter box, he did hook up my new speakers for the computer. Which I really appreciate. Not sure why he won't do things I ask him to--not that I don't appreciate what he is doing for me.

(I have difficulty breathing around certain strong odors, and usually ask him to help me with things like that.) I have noticed he tends to do the things he likes to do. Maybe ask him to clean while I'm cleaning?? I think he may just be getting distracted, and forgetting.

So he didn't meet xrm yesterday after all. And she didn't call.

But I couldn't find my cell phone this morning, so I'm basically unavailable now.

My own stupid fault--I'm sure it's just at home--but I hate feeling so disconnected. I'm going to wait until later to call him, and see if it's there, since I know he went to bed so late.

Thigs are going so well for you. Keep up the good work.

Nitaf

Well, didn't have my cell phone, so I didn't talk to H all day while I was at work. Which is pretty unusual. I had to stay late--only about 30 minutes--so I got home late. H was still at my place, said he had waited to see me. Said he was worried, since I didn't have my phone (he found it at home) and he couldn't call. He then asked if I wanted to go the gym with him, but I said I needed to eat.

H also confessed he checked my vmail. Said he thought it was his phone (they look exactly alike) and didn't realize it was mine until he already heard part of a message from my female friend. He was very apologetic, didn't want me to think he was snooping.

Although I kind of think he was.

When you access the vmail, it repeats your name back to you. How he got past that part to my message, listening long enough to it to at least mark it as no longer new....well...there's more than a few seconds in there. Not that I care. I just think his story sounds fishy. But if he was, I actually find it kind of funny. Maybe because I understand what drives a person to snoop. Ah, well. I didn't push him on the issue, even though I think his story was odd. He sounded so bad about the whole thing, I just let it go.

H did ask me some more abou the BB. (I was talking about how people have been through much worse than us...this really reassures him that we are going to be OK.) I told him this was more like a really long journal for me. He wanted to know if people wrote to me. And if I read what happened with other people, and commented to them. I can remember when the thought of him finding this place terrified me. Now I don't even bother to erare IE's history.

He had to be at work early, so he left for the gym, while I got something to eat. He did call me on his way and ask me to meet him there, but I was still eating. Then I sort of passed out on the couch. MIL called, but I didn't pick up because I was too tired. H called again when he got out of the gym. I didn't get it in time, and when I called him, he didn't answer--must have been getting ready for work. But he did call me later, while he was headed in.

I had been feeling kind of funny all day. Been some time since I felt like that. I finally decided I needed to just go to the gym, that exercise always made me feel better. But then I couldn't find my shoes. Looked everywhere. Even went to H's house and I couldn't find them. So I didn't get to go, after all.

I wound up just doing a lot of unpacking around the apartment--which really needed done, anyway.

Left H a vmail before I went to bed, telling him good night and that I loved him.

He called when he got out of work. I think he must have called me the minute he left.

We chatted while he drove here--said he was going to just stay at my place, since MIL and BIL2 refuse to turn on the AC, and it's just too hot for that.

He mentioned that a cop friend of his came into the club last night--and mentioned xrm, of all people. Apparentally, xrm had told the cop, M, that she was "really hurt" over this thing with my H. H got kind of upset, and asked M what all she had said. She had given M the impression that H and her were romantically involved.

Then said he was glad M had brought her up--he wanted some advice. Told him all of the weird stuff she's been doing. That yes, they were roommates, but nothing else every happened. Which reminds me, I don't think I posted this, so I want to add it now... XRM made some weird references after the 4th of July when she talked to H. Asked if he had "had fun blowing up fireworks" and if his "war was any fun." References to things we actually did on the 4th that she should not have known anything about. The first one could have easily been a guess...but the second...not so sure. (H and BIL2 ran around chasing each other with fireworks.) H also told M that he had told xrm that she was scaring him, that she was acting inappropriately.

M told H there wasn't enough to go to the police yet--which we knew--but did point out that we should make sure to keep all of our cell phone records, since it's a record of all the calls she has made to H's phone.

H mentioned that he was supposed to meet xrm the next day for lunch, and the he planned on telling her she has to back off. Which irritated me, because I felt like H was not keeping up his end of the bargain with keeping me informed. He did say he thought it was on Friday--which could mean that he wanted to call me, I didn't have my phone, and he later forgot to tell me.

But he also said she called fairly early and woke him up--saying "Did I wake you?" in that fake-innocent voice that irritates him. (She does this constantly. And does know better.) And H said he probably wasn't going to make lunch with her, since that would be too early for him, and he has too many things to do before he goes to work.

We got some breakfast together when he got in.

I was very happy to see him. He told me about how this one woman was hitting on him at the bar. I had asked him to stop telling me these stories, since they tend to only make me more jealous and unreasonable.

So this woman asks him if he has a girlfriend. He says no. She then asks if he is available. And he says yes. H used to pretend to be single, to get more tips. At first, I was okay with this--until first sep. Then I told him I wasn't okay with it anymore. The deal is that he answers honestly, but never lies. So, of course, he doesn't really have a girlfriend.

But if they ask if he's seeing someone, he usually replies he's married.

Anyway, H apologized for it, said he hadn't meant it, that it came out before he realized it out of habit. He sounded really bothered by it. I told him it was okay. He then told me that this woman wasn't the most attractive, and then proceeded to hit on him the whole night. And that it made him uncomfortable. He said he even started getting affectionate with one of the waitresses--hugs, little kisses on the cheek--to kind of ward her off. (Yes, H sometimes gets uncomfortable when people come on too strongly to him...I didn't find this weird at all.) I asked him if he would have been happy to see me last night, and he said he would have given me a big and kiss and been very happy to see me.

I also noticed he was still wearing his wedding ring.

He usually takes it off to go to work--it hits the bottles all of the time, and drives him crazy. I actually encouraged him, when he first started bartending, to just remove it if it was really getting on his nerves.

I'm not going to bring up the xrm thing. H said he felt like I was prying a couple of days ago. So I'm not going to bother hiding I'm a little upset/bothered, and wait until he asks. That way, he won't feel so harassed.

Then again...it's not like he never told me... I don't know. Maybe I'm being too demanding. I'll ask H about it later.

(and yes, there was some discussion of babies last night...I just forgot to mention it...

)

Nevanna-
Again, I think you are doing great at keeping the jealousy under control - when your H has a unique career like yours (and mine), it takes just that extra measure of understanding and tolerance. You are doing really well at keeping your feelings about the xrm thing under control...good for you!

My H is making it a point to be really open and honest with pretty much all of his interactions with females, I think to reassure me that he is being above-board. Sometimes it's really hard to listen, even when I know it's just a friend!

So I kind of know what you're going through - but I don't think I am dealing with it quite as gracefully as you are!
I'll get there eventually.

Keep up the great work!
Myrrh

Didn't spend much time with H on Saturday. He slept in pretty late, and had to be at work early (for a bartender.) We did get to do some errands together--I helped him buy some new shirts for work.

I was hanging out with him at his house while he was getting ready. Didn't even bring up the topic of xrm, when, out of the blue, H says maybe he should call her up when he gets off of work and ask her to go to breakfast with him. Commented, "See how she likes it."

Then he proceeded to complain about all of the things that really ticked him off about her. I just listened, most of the time, backing up what he felt. He complained about how she had drank a lot of his liquor. How she would make drinks, and then not even finish them. That she would just help herself to whatever new bottles he had--how he once purchased a bottle of Hypnotiq and she basically finished it off. That another time she opened a brand new bottle of premium vodka because he was out of the cheaper stuff. And how she pretty much finished off a case of Red Bull--a case that cost around $40. Then would complain about how she didn't have money for food or cigarettes.

I pointed out that I didn't just go through all of his bar supply, since I knew it was intended for when there were friends over. H said it would have been okay for me, anyway, since I'm his wife. And I said that I knew that, but I was still careful not to finish something or open a new bottle, because I knew the bar was still basically his. (And I certainly very, very rarely drink by myself.) H said he knew that, and was going to use that as an example.

He also griped about how she constantly took quarters from his bowl for gas or cigarrettes. And that he had used those for laundry or converted them for food--except that she was always taking them. And how she had gotten into his drawing pencils...the nice, expensive, specialty ones...and used those to take phone messages. Even when he repeatedly asked her not to. That she was always constantly helping herself to his stuff--and he's the kind of guy who is very, very picky about what is his. He doesn't like peopple messing with it.

H also told me that he was sad, because he liked xrm's sister. But that he obviously wouldn't be able to hang out with her anymore. I wanted to say something, but I didn't, because I realize he's just going through the phase where he's sad because he's giving up something.

After H went to work, I was feeling pretty sappy, and left him a direct vmail. And then an hour later I left another. And before I went to bed I left a third. I would have left more, but I was busy finishing unpacking. (And I am now done and the apartment looks great!)

I woke up around 8am, when H hadn't come home yet. Not unusual for me to wake up because he didn't come in when I expected. I thought about calling him, and decided against it. I thought maybe he had had breakfast with her. About then he walked in.

I told H I had been a little worried, and he said he had called xrm for breakfast. That she had complained about how early he was calling, and he had just said "How do you like it?" Then told her if she wanted to see him, now was her chance, it was up to her. (I think it's funny he forced her to adjust to his time schedule, instead of trying to accommodate her anymore.)

He met her, of course, in a public restaurant. He was nice enough to go to the one by where she was living. When he sat down, he said she started fooling with a spot on his neck, and he jerked back, and demanded to know what she was doing. She said he had a zit on his neck she was going to take care of it. (Not kidding!) He told her she was making him uncomfortable, and for her not to touch him.

He said he wanted to know exactly what she thought their relationship was when they were living together. That he wanted to know what she thought had happened. She denied thinking they were romantically involved. H said he thought she was lieing--had picked up on his attitude, especially since she's said so many things to indicate otherwise over the last several weeks.

He asked her why she had gone around telling people they were a couple. She said that she hadn't. He asked her why so many people had come up to him and referred to her as his gf, then. She didn't have an answer for that. (He suspected she was lieing.)

He also asked her about the "magical night" that she's continually been referring to. As he and I suspected, it was one occasion when they had gotten drunk together, and she had commented that it would be nice if they got together. (Of course, H at the time had told her no.) He told her that all that had been was two friends, enjoying each other's company. And nothing else.

He ripped her for all of the things she had helped herself to. Told her she had probably cost him money, over all, expecially because of the liquor. That she had never paid on time, and at one point he even had to borrow money from his wife to pay the rent because she was so late--which really ticked him off. (He told me one of the reasons he asked her to live there was because he thought she would be more respectful than one of his guy friends of his stuff and his alcohol. Ha!)

H also asked her why she was bugging him so much. She said H had said something that "inspired" her--to "take chances, go after what you want." (H says this all of the time.) I think H was irritated (with himself) that she had taken something he said and used it against him. Pointed out that he was married, and that she had known all along he wanted to work things out with his wife. She said she knew, which is why she hadn't pushed so hard. (OMG, what does she consider pushing??)

He also told her that it was ridiculous that she get upset (jealous??) when he was spending time with me. That she had no right to complain, since I'm his wife.

He also told her that he "wasn't healthy" for her--I think alluding to all the weird things she's been doing. And that he thought all of the cocaine she had done had permanently messed her up brain, because of her outrageous temper. She denied that. (Obviously, she still does the drug. How dumb can you be??)

And he told her that their time living together hadn't been that great. (I think she thought it had been this incredible living experience, the two of them together.) He said she was pretty upset by that, and asked why he hadn't told her before. He said that there had been no point to tell her sooner.

I asked him if she had said anything about the new shirt he was wearing. (Which looks very good on him!) He said that she had commented, "New shirt." He also said that apparentally her ex-bf (current bf??) doesn't like him too much. We had a good laugh at that. And he mentioned that it bothered xrm as much as me that he gets hit on at his job. (This really ticked me off, because there's her attitude of thinking she has some sort of rights to him.)

I mentioned that she must have been fooling herself, thinking they could get together, because he couldn't be with someone who has a temper. That it just didn't work for him. And he agreed with me, said he definately didn't want to be with someone who had a temper. Which is one of the reasons he likes me so much--I really don't have much of one. (Unless someone is interfering in my M!)

I gave him a nice, long massage. He also told me a few details of things that had happened to him as a child. It's taken years for him to slowly pull at that barrier, and it feels nice to finally be able to tell he's letting me into that aspect of his life. It was only a little bit, but I think it was significant for him.

We talked some about triggers, and how they can set off memories and startle him. I told him that was perfectly normal for all kinds of people--even I have them (usually associated with two seps and all of that trauma). I told him that they can be defused, but I didn't know how. He said he thought he was doing very well for someone who has been through what he has, and I agreed with him. (I've found that telling him he's normal actually has the weird effect of soothing his nerves. When I used to insist that seeing a C to sort out his childhood might help, he would actually act more out of whack.)

He didn't go to sleep until well after 9am, although he did tell me to wake him up. I didn't--he looked too tired. Instead I spent some time drawing on the computer. (I love 3D...I have several programs that I like to use, and can spend hours modelling something.)

He didn't get up until after 3pm. Complained that I didn't get him up. I told him I wanted him to get enough sleep. He said he didn't want to sleep the day away, that he wanted to spend time with me.

He also told me how much he had liked all the vmails I had sent him the night before. I told him I made a point of sending them directly to his inbox, so I wouldn't bother him at work. He said he even let someone he worked with listen to them--at which point she made a face and said "eeewwww." (Nice to know my being affectionate can still make people gag!

)

I showed H what I was working on (I had the strangest urge to draw his Beretta, have no idea why...). He really liked it, what little I had done. (He loves weapons of all types.) Asked me if I would draw some other things for him sometime.

He also asked me to pluck his eyebrows for him. (No, I don't shape them, just get rid of the excess.

) He said he wondered how many other guys let their spouses do that sort of thing. He also offered to do mine for me.

H said he also enjoyed it because it was another way of being close.

I had intended to go do some cardio at the gym. H said he wanted to get his other ear pierced, and asked me to go with him. Said he really wanted to be cutesy in public with me. (

) So I said I would go shopping with him, then to the gym, since the gym was open later.

He mentioned while we were driving around that he had always had to talk down to xrm--that she wasn't that bright, and it drove him crazy. But he had stopped bothering to do that when he met her for breakfast, and she had to keep asking him what he was talking about. H also said she had told him that he was "different"--which is funny, because she obviously didn't know that if she said that. She was getting the prick side of him, which if she'd paid attention, she would have noticed he acts that way around people that annoy. Obviously she never knew him that well.

We didn't make it to the mall, since H wanted to get some steaks from Sam's Club. After we went back to his place, I took his car to the gym. I got back just in time for grilled steak. (Mmmmm.)

We made plans to go the movies, so I took a shower there and borrowed some of his clothes. Then we ran by my place so I could change, and H took my dog for a walk. When he came back up...he had a baby bird in his hands. Said he had found it, it couldn't fly, and he wanted to nurse it back to health.

For some reason, I had one of those silly panic episodes with the bird. (I'm beginning to suspect it's related to my sugar intake. I haven't had one in a looong time, and then I recently have been letting H "treat" me to some stuff.) Every time it tried to fly, I would screech and run into the bedroom. Why it scared me (startled me??) I don't know. Strangest thing.

But I crawled in bed, and refused to come out. H finally came in (minus the bird) and asked me to go shopping with him to get a cage and some bird seed. He kept asking, and I kept wavering. I finally decided to go with him, since it seemed to be a big deal to him. (I might have stayed home before anyway.)

So we picked up the smallest cage and some bird seed. H said he would keep it as his house. We also decided if it died (or even after he releases it) we would just get another small, quiet, pet bird anyway.

I told H I didn't want him to think I was mad at him about the bird. Just a little startled by the stupid thing. And that his thing for animals is one of the reasons I love him.

H also told me not to worry about the anxiety thing. We talked about how it seems to be such random stuff. I had thought for a time it was related to people...but...well...this is a bird.

But at least they are further apart...

We played some more monopoly on the computer. I was bankrupted pretty quickly. H kept saying he wanted to something to help me--he kind of felt like it was us against the computer's player--but I told him it was okay. Of course, I was bankrupted because I landed on his land--that he had been trying to get the computer with. But that's how games go.

I dozed off on the couch next to him, and H put me to bed later.

When I got up this morning, I mentioned I was still feeling a touch of nausea. (We've been joking that I may actually be pregnant, which would be our luck, after the prank we pulled on BIL2.) H said it would be funny to tell xrm that I was pregnant, just to see what her reaction is.

I also noticed when I got up this morning, that H had still not cleaned the litter box. I'm almost beginning to think that he subconsciously doesn't do things that I ask him to. So I'm going to try a different approach. When I talk to him later, I'm going to thank him for cleaning it out. Even though he hasn't done it yet.

Sometimes that approach seems to work with him--when I tell him he's considerate, then he is considerate.

But I also realized I was falling back into the rut of how I used to get irritated when he didn't help out around the house. Time to try something different.

I also noticed that I'm detaching from the whole xrm thing again. I had been doing pretty good until I found that letter, which brought it all back emotionally. Now I'm calming down again.

And, the more okay I am with things, the more upset H gets. H mentioned meeting her for breakfast by where my previous apartment was got him thinking--about the fact that I had to move there because of his actions.

I also noticed that we gets upset, pretty consistantly, at different times of the day. For me, it's when I get up in the morning. For H, it's late at night, usually when he's headed to bed.

Fairly calm night. Haven't heard from xrm since Sunday morning. (

) H was there when I got home, although we didn't talk all day while I was at work.

He even picked up some laundry detergent and stuff for the bathroom. I told him how much I appreciated it, since it wasn't even his place. He seemed kind of baffled, but I think that's because he didn't expect my reaction.

We curled up on the couch for a long time. H feel asleep, and I couldn't get him back up for class, so I just covered him with a blanket.

When he did wake up, much later, he was obviously still feeling needy. He came over by me on the little couch next to the computer, and said he wanted some "bonding" time. Kept telling me how much he had missed this sort of thing with me.

We wound up back on the couch watching TV. He set his glasses on the table, leaned his head on my shoulder, and started crying. I told him it was okay, he would feel better later, if he let himself get all the emotions out. He didn't stay upset too long--"Whose Line Is It Anyway?" came on, and soon he was dieing laughing.

He massaged my legs for a while. I must have dozed off then--it was close to my bedtime. I woke up when H got out of the shower. I remember mentioning the 5 LL to him. I think he found it kind of interesting, and he agreed with me about his--acts of service is his primary. Touch is pretty close for him (and my primary, so that works well), but he also responds well to words of affirmation.

I dozed off again. H then said BIL2 had called--that his rats had gotten out in the garage, and that his mom had put out rat poison. He was pretty worried, and he took off in a hurry. He said he would be back, but I didn't think too much of it.

I went to bed. Something about when he rushes out like that that messes up my mood when I'm asleep. I think I also had a weird dream when I was dozing on the couch. So I called him--he was busy, hung with me pretty quick, but I asked him to let me know about the rats.

H came in much later, and climbed on top of me on the bed to squash me with a bear hug. Said he had tried to sleep at his place, but couldn't do it, that he couldn't stand to be away from me. (And yes, the rats were okay--BIL2 found them. They're very domestic, it's not like they were going to hurt anything.)

He then laid down beside me, and pulled me over so I was laying on him. (He does this a lot, when I'm asleep, will tug at me or rearrange me so that we're curled up together.

) He kept asking me to forgive him. I told him I had--but, that he needed to forgive himself. He said he couldn't. That he was really sorry, he thought he had lost me, he hadn't meant for things to get so out of control. Said that he had only said he wanted the D to get me out of the house, that he had never meant it, and that he couldn't even stay away from me that long. (Although it was the longest couple of months of my life.) He even said that "things weren't that bad," that he didn't know why he felt so frustrated.

I made a mistake here. I normally just listen, or say "I know" or hold him. I told him that if he hadn't done what he had, then I wouldn't have found DB or this website. And that I'm much better off for that. I think that only made things worse--implying that, on some level, the whole mess was good for me.

I could see how badly H's guilt was getting to him. He was just miserable. I asked him if he was still wanted to see a MC. Although I'm feeling pretty comfortable with how things are progressing, if he's having trouble and wants to, then we should go. He said he still wanted to--then added he wanted to for himself. The only reason we haven't gone is lack of money. We just don't have it.

I had tried different several different C's before, throughout the last several months, and never been back more than a couple of times because I didn't like them. I told H that one I had seen, this time around, on my second visit, actually told me I should think about starting to date. I had been out of the apartment one week, we weren't legally seperated, and no one had filed for divorce. And she was telling me to date. Even after I had told her I was interested in making my M work anyway. She actually told me my H wasn't interested, and for me to move on.

This was before I had come across DB, and I never went back to her. I told H I decided not to listen to her. I think that story upset him pretty good.

We also talked about how a lot of C's are more interested in background, and just tell you "You do xyz because of this pattern in your life you are reenacting it," and don't ever really tell you how to help yourself. H agreed--and even brought up something from the KLA CD I had played for him!! About how by the time most people see a C, they're in pretty deep, and need help fairly quickly.

I mentioned the KLA seminars Michele has, and asked H if he would want to go to one of those. He nodded his head pretty emphatically.

H asked me several times to stay home from work, and I told him that I couldn't. I could tell that he really didn't want me to get up this morning--he pulled me back down a couple of times. I had a hard time just giving him a kiss on the forehead so I could leave.

I am kind of glad that H is apologizing so much. It really reassures me. He seems to do so much more after I calm down, and stop pushing so hard. It's like if I'm not, on some level, punishing him, he can then feel the emotions himself.

But then, I don't want him to dwell on it too much. I don't want it to eat him up.

I think I'm going to take my own advice--I'm going to listen to what I told him a few days ago. I told him it takes time, and asked him not to rush me. I'm going to do the same thing for him. Just be patient, understanding, and let him work out it in the way that he needs to.

(And yes, the bird is still in my apartment. It's actually perked up quite a bit, and is amazingly loud for an immature bird. Sounds like spring inside my front room.

)

Remorse is good but just let him know that it is ok to forgive himself because you forgive him.

Nitaf

You know I did, but I think he either doesn't believe me or thinks it was too easy or maybe he just can't forgive himself. Which sounds like an odd problem to have, but I also think that was one of the things that lead up to the second sep--his feelings of guilt.

Just got off the phone from H. I was excited because it looks like I'm finally going to get a permanent position at this company I've been contracted to. (

)

I apologized for waking him up. He said it was always okay for me to call and wake him up. (

)

He then asked if he could go to school now. I had always promised once I got a job, he could go to school. He sounded kind of hopeful--almost like someone who doesn't really believe it's finally going to happen. I told him of course he could, if it all goes through.

He then asked if he still needed to go to the army. I told him to join the army or go to school or however he wanted to do it. I also told him I thought he really wanted to be in the army, if only just for a few years--and that he should do what he really wants to.

We didn't talk long, he was still pretty sleepy. Told him I was going to a friend's after work, so he wouldn't see me before class--and that might be a good thing, so I don't distract him too much.

He sounded disappointed, but okay.

Cross your fingers for me that the job offer goes through!

Had dinner with a GF after work last night. H wasn't there; he had gone to class. It was actually kind of lonely coming home without him there. (Never mind he seems to have just planted himself in my apartment.

)

H got back a few hours later, but said he wanted to eat before we went to the gym. Which delayed us both. (I had missed him really bad, and didn't want to go without him.) I was starting to feel cranky then, not sure why, but maybe because I was tired.

Didn't stay at the gym long--just did some cardio. I was pretty tired when we left--it was my bedtime. But it was still good to get in a little exercise.

On the way back home, H said that we'd "been doing it a lot lately." I commented that I've been pretty satisfied with frequency the last few months. Then H, of all things, said he would actually like to ML more often.

For most of our R, H would insist he could go months without, or that ML just wasn't that important to him. There were times I felt like getting him into the bedroom was a huge chore. It absolutely floored me that he said he would actually like more.

I asked him if he wanted to ML more often, and he kind of hedged the question. I said it was always okay with me. (And it is.) He said he didn't want to ML if the other person wasn't into it--that it "didn't seem right" to him. So now I have the weird dilemma of trying to figure out how we can ML more often, maybe even when I'm not completely in the mood (not that I ever mind!!), without making him feel uncomfortable. I haven't initiated for months...it's been so nice that he's done it, and I got soooo tired of being rejected all the time. Maybe the next time I'm even slightly in the mood, I'll approach him...see how that works.

(And I thought I would never have this problem!! I guess H is one of those people who needs to feel very, very secure and loved and cose to someone to want to ML. Who would have thought?)

I was definately cranky when we got my place. I could feel it. It was very late for me, and I'm sure that was why. I was in the kitchen, putting away some dirty dishes, when I felt myself get agitated. I started to say something, but I stopped myself. But H caught in anway.

He came over, looking very concerned, and kept asking me what was wrong. I told him nothing. But he kept pressing, and looked upset. I finally told him that I hated how messy he was, and wish he would just clean up after himself. He got this wounded puppy look, and said he would just leave then.

As weird as it sounds, this is actually more like H used to act pre-bomb. He's very, very sensitive. And he's not putting that "I'm an @$$hole" mask on for me anymore.

So I took him by the hand, and sat down on the couch, and told him that in the morning, while I was driving to work, I had thought about all the things about H that irritated me. And I had only been able to come up with one--that he never cleans up after himself. And I told him that I hadn't wanted to say anything, because I could tell I was feeling grumpy, and I try now to be more careful about what I say when I know I'm in a bad mood. That I try to wait a day or so until I'm in a better mood to see if I had a valid reason to get upset. That seemed to cheer him up.

Then I laid down on the small couch by the computer. H commented he felt restless, and wanted to go out. I told him to just go out then. He said he didn't really have anyone to go out with, and didn't like going to bars by himself.

I fell asleep on the couch. Didn't wake up until I heard H come in the front door--I had been so asleep, I hadn't noticed that he left.

I asked if he had been gone long--he said he been gone for several hours. That he went up to the pub he used to work at, since he still knows people in there. I was a little bothered by him going out--but it was so mild, it really wasn't a big deal at all. Just sort of barely crossed my mind.

H told me that it was getting annoying, having women hit on him. That it was starting to make him uncomfortable. (Not sure if anyone came onto him at the bar, quite a few people know me there as well.) Said he had three of them in Wal-Mart. (Must have gone there after the bar closed.) He said he was glad he was wearing his ring, but almost thought that attracted more women. He swears he gets hit on more when he's wearing it, and commented that maybe he should just take it back off again. (Which would disappoint me, but be no big deal. I just like seeing him wear it.

)

He put me to bed then. Not sure when he came in, but it was later. I just remember him wanting to cuddle once he came in.

This morning, when I woke up, I gave him a kiss on the neck, and a few kisses on the forehead. He smiled, and pulled my arms around him. I think I'm going to try to wake up earlier in the mornings, maybe initiate ML, and see how that goes. (That's always a good way to start the day!)

H and I always started our day off

Nitaf

When I got home last night, H's car was there. I was excited to see him...but he wasn't in my apartment. And his phone was there. Kind of confusing. He came in about 30 minutes later--BIL2 had picked him up to go looking for a storage unit.

The three of us decided to go out to eat. H mentioned before BIL2 walked in that he thought it was cute that I got along so well with his brother. (Since we hang out and do stuff together, even with out H.) While we were at the restaurant (and, BTW, the waitress was terrible--never refilled our drinks or checked on us), I mentioned to BIL2 that (hopefully) I'm supposed to finally get hired on with the company I've been contracted to for the last several months. He was teasing H that I would then be his "sugar mama." H got this horribly-exaggerated hurt face, then said the he just wanted me because he loved me--which must be obvious, since I've been broke up until now.

Then H said he didn't know how he was going to make it in basic without me there. He actually said he can't go more than five hours without missing me. Which completely caught me off guard! But in a nice way.

After that we went back to my place. While we were laying in bed (waiting on the food to settle), I asked him if he couldn't stand be away from me for more than a few hours, how did he manage to get me to leave before? (I've since stopped saying "kicked out" around H--that really hurts him.) I don't know why I said it. Just popped out.

He got really upset, said that it was hard, that he had gone about it all wrong. I apologized, said that I hadn't meant to bring it up--just that my brain latches onto contradictions, and they drive me crazy. I think that made him feel better.

I must have dozed off, because it was after 9pm when I woke up. Kind of late, but I told H I still wanted to do some weights at the gym. So we went ahead and left for the gym.

I stopped by the locker room while H went upstairs to a bench. When I got upstairs a few minutes later, he was talking to a guy in the weight room. He introduced me, and it turned out to be the brother of the DJ at the club.

When it was my turn to press, H wasn't even really looking at me. He was talking the entire time to this guy. H did this every time I did a set (we switch off). A couple times I was waiting on him so that I could get started. And, what finally did it, was when he was talking to this guy, not looking at me, and I had to actually tell him that I was having trouble, that I needed help with the last rep.

Then, while we were in the weight room, the electricity went off. It had been storming for some time anyway, so I wasn't surprised. I asked H if he wanted to wait on the lights or leave. He said he wanted to keep working out.

I told H I couldn't see. He said he could, and then insisted we continue to work. I told H I couldn't see what I was doing, and I was concerned that I was going to hit myself with the bar or trip on something. H insisted he could see, and that everything would be fine--and even suggest his retrieving a flashlight from his car. (Did I ever mention that H is, oh, more than a little single-minded? This sort of thing being the reason I used to avoid working out with him.)

A few minutes later, the lights came back on. And then the guy H had been chatting with left. We continued on with some of the machines. H wasn't being talkative. Actually, he had slipped back into "work-mode"...where he's much more distant and less friendly with me. Which is just fine when he's at work, I understand that.

We did a couple of more things, and H wasn't talking much. So I quit waiting on him when he was using a machine (we often switch off), and wandered off to do my own thing.

A few minutes later, H came over and asked me what was wrong. I told him nothing. (I wanted to get as much of a workout in as possible, and I knew he was going to get upset.) I switched to another machine, and H commented that while I was doing the pull-down, I looked really buff.

I told H I knew I had the muscle, which was why I wanted to lose some fat. (Not weight, just the fat layer hiding my muscles...I want better definition...did I ever mention that I'm a perfectionist??) H said that should be easy, all I would need to do was change my diet a little.

I laughed, and pointed out that I already eat very, very light--lots of salads, mostly fruits and veggies. I hardly ever eat meat (just too heavy). I told him if I ate any less, that would just be unhealthy!

H kept pressing me with what was wrong. He had the most concerned look on his face. I finally told him that I had felt kind of ignored. That I had to actually ask him to help me when I was struggling one time. And that this was supposed to be our time together. That had been the whole point of working out together.

He looked really hurt, and apologized, said he hadn't meant to, and that he was going to leave. (We had driven seperately.) I told him that was why I hadn't wanted to tell him. That I knew it would upset him. And that he was overreacting--that he was doing what he used to accuse me of, that I couldn't tell him something was bothering me because he was blowing it out of proportion.

He finally calmed down some, and we went back to the workout. I'm kind of concerned that he thinks I'm objecting to his having friends or talking to other people, period. Which I'm not! I was just upset that he was basically ignoring me. Especially when I really did need assistance!

A few minutes later I went over to him, said I wanted to go home. I told him I wasn't having any fun anymore. He asked why not. I told him because of the what I had said earlier, and because he was upset now, and because he had started to get obsessive on me again. I just wasn't having fun anymore, I was tired, and this was supposed to be fun for me.

So we left. Ran by his house to give some stuff to BIL2 for the yard sale. I was tired, so since I had my own car, I left a before he did.

When I got home, I took a shower. At one point, while in the shower, I broke down and just started crying. Not for very long. But I was upset over the whole mess, about how H seems to have this tendency to just jump with the next cool, new thing. I was scared about the whole pattern of it--that if I flipped out because I was afraid he was going to ditch me, the whole mess would repeat again. (Before the sep, all I heard from H was [MF] and [xrm]. Mostly about [MF], but that was all I heard about...)

I calmed down when I got out of the shower. Tried to wait, but called H maybe 20 minutes later. I could hear he was driving. He said he was getting groceries, and then he would be "home." And he was talking about my apartment (the place he is always insisting is mine, and not his!)

I finished with my hair and settled on the computer to play a game. When H came in he had several bags of groceries, which I helped him put away. He was nice enough to pick me up some milk and cereal--and just the kind that I like.

I thanked him, told him how much I appreciated that, and he told me he know how expensive he could be. That he also knew little things like that helped. I thought it was the sweetest thing.

He asked if I had stayed up for him, and I said yes. (Even though I had also just gotten sucked into a computer game.) We talked about where he could possibly put his bar in the apartment. He then asked what stuff I wanted to put in his storage unit.

Completely surprised me. I had just figured it was his, and I was going to stay out of it. He told me it was going to be a little smaller than the one I had put my stuff in. (And he didn't even get upset mentioning it! That was the unit I had to get when he kicked me out!) He said we could put some of my moving bins (yes, I move so often, I have a set of plastic bins... LOL) in it, maybe clear out my over-stuffed closet, and he could keep his comics in my place. All of which I thought was great!

He asked me to stay with him on the couch. (Which I had already planned to do.) When I layed down, I told him I was sorry for getting so upset earlier--it just reminded me of some stuff, but I knew I overreacted. H took the comedic approach, trying to poke fun at me, but I really wasn't in the mood for it. Told him I was trying to apologize, and he was making fun of me.

I'm still a little hurt by the incident. Mostly because I had to actually ask H to help me when I was stuggling with that last rep on the bench press. That's something he should have done on his own as my spotter!

I'm also beginning to think that maybe he just can't split his focus. (Or, at least, maybe not very well.) As long as I've known him, when he's focussed on something, he is incredibly intense about it. He doesn't respond (at all) when he's playing video games. He's the same with movies. When he listens to someone, he's completely in the moment. I've never know anyone who could listen as intently--and be interested!--as he can. So maybe I'm hitting a personality trait here...I don't know...

It was really such a minor thing. The rest of the night was very nice. He did lots of nice things for me. I guess it's just one of those areas that I'm very sensitive about. Probably because it was such a main part of both of the seps...him ignoring me and ditching me for other people.

Although I did make sure to not be too hard on him. I didn't yell. I didn't cry. I didn't retreat. So I guess it could have been worse.

Who put the morror in my face?

Nitaf

In mine, too, Nitaf. I like the humor idea, kml. Now if I can just remember it when I am bothered about something.

You and your H are making such progress that a few minor stumbles are not going to ruin everything. Relax a little, Nevanna, you are doing well.

Hi Nevanna,
Been following your sitch and your future looks so bright!

It's great that you and your H are sharing the gym as personal time together. I just think you could be a little less regimented about it and not get your feelings hurt if his attention is elsewhere for a while.

It sounds to me in your recent interactions that you and your H are still extremely sensitive about any old R talk-- and getting overly upset about little things. Of course you are both scared, after going to the brink of S/D and coming back... What more can you do to build a new R instead of rebuilding the old one? How can you reassure (maybe more nonverbally than verbally) your H that you are in it for the long haul, so he doesn't get so upset and feel like leaving the house every time you say something he doesn't want to hear?

Building confidence in your R seems like a challenge for you right now. More Acting As If might do the trick...

I'm getting so much inspiration from your sitch! My partner and I arfe coming back from the brink, as well. We'll have many of your same challenges.

I finally got hired full-time by the company I've been working as a contractor for the last six months. My first job on salary and with benefits. (Yeah for me!! It's been sooo hard since I graduated college...)

When I told H, he asked when my benefits would kick in. I told him I wasn't sure. He said he wanted to know if it was before he was going to the army--because if it was, he was going to try to get me "knocked up" before he left. (Yes, H put it that way...he's kidding, he's really not that disrespectful...)

I pointed out he would be gone for most of the pregnancy then--and he said he was only hiding from the mood swings. (Again, kidding.) Then he said he just wanted to get started right away.

The guy who said he was never going to get married, and never going to have kids...

So I'm having a good day!

Hi Nev,
Where are you?
I'm trying to catch up on your thread!
One thing about undeveloped film is that eventually it goes bad and if he did develop the pics, it may not turn out!
karen812

Hi Nevanna,
How are you doing?

CONGRATULATIONS on your job!!!

That's good that you are thinking about the A less. It might help you to quit trying to rehash stuff and seek answers from him altogether. It sounds like you have been testing him, which I know is very tempting to do, but I think in the long run, it only makes you feel worse. Because (at least in my head) it then becomes, "well, what did he mean by that ?" And, "one day he said this, but now he's saying that..." etc., etc., etc. You are only doing yourself and the R a disservice. I read recently that R talks are generally bad for the r. Not sure exactly why. guess I need to read that one again. ha ha

How are you coming along with finding other things to do for yourself? I can relate to the he's going out anxiety as you know. I need to drop that altogether too!

ttys,
hope you are doing well.
karen812

Hi Nev,
How are you doing? What have you been up to?
Wrote any good books lately?
karen812

Today sucks.

It's pouring down rain. It took me over an hour to get to work (normally 25 minutes). I left late anyway because of a bad morning, and was 45 minutes late. The bottom half of my jeans is soaked. I left with sandals (didn't take the time to change) and my feet are cold now. And my hair has just about doubled in size.

So last night, I started crying on my way home from work. No trigger. Nothing. Just started crying my eyes out. My personal theory is that I pushed it all down for so long the last several months, that it just gets me at an unexpected time. Kind of like when you shake up the 2 liter of pop--sooner or later, that pressure is going to hiss out if you don't open it up to an explosion.

So I'm just crying my eyes out on the drive home. Just wanted to climb on my H and let him hold me. I have this fear of being upset in front of him--it's made him just run the past several months. And then I started feeling like a real shmuck. He has been doing all of these wonderful things for me lately. And here I am, getting upset over things that happened months ago.

Well, he wasn't there when I got home. Called his cell, but he had left it at my place. Called MIL's house, and he was there. I just told him I was a little upset, but didn't insist he come over or anything. We didn't talk long.

Finally decided I needed to take a nap. I had a splitting sinus headache from all of the crying. So I curled up on the couch. Woke up a couple of hours later when he came in.

Told him I'd been upset. But I was feeling better. I wound up going out with him to buy cigars. I really wanted to go out with him--drinking or to listen to a band, or something. We haven't had a weekend together since last February, because of his job.

The first place we went didn't have what he wanted, so we drove up to a different side of town. Right by where his old apartment is. We even drove by it. The place we moved into to "start fresh" after the first sep and the PA. The place he kicked me out of right before our wedding anniversary. The place he moved psycho xrm into...and then a few months later I was up until 3am all week to help him get out of as fast as possible.

Ugh.

So we went into the cigar shop. That was kind of fun. Although it was right next to the pub he used to work at. Where he met w****#1. Yick. I asked if he still went in there, and he said he had the night before. Ah, well. (Stupid b!tch doesn't go there anymore.)

When we headed back home, H didn't even think about it and drove right by where w**** used to work.

Still hate her. He groaned, and I ripped on her some, and then the rest of the drive was pleasant.

He went out last night. No big deal. Didn't even really bother me. I was just tired anyway.

When he came home he came in the bedroom and talked to me. Told me he had been going out too much. (WTF??) That he missed me. I told him he was fine, I didn't think he was going out too much at all. "Too much" was when I didn't get to see him or talk to him and was made, on 198th down the list after everyone else. Going out a couple of nights a week with coworkers is, well...kind of healthy, I think. But, whatever.

He asked me if I could put in the pizza he picked up while he took the dog out. I said sure. He then apologized, said he forgot I had to go to work. (Was it 4am? 5am? Don't know.) I intended to, but fell back asleep. Back when all of our problems started, he would have gotten mad at me. Not this time.

He came back in when it was done. I had obviously fallen back asleep, cause it seemed like I had only talked to him a minute before.

So I moved to the couch with him to eat pizza. Okay, I was pretty much asleep when I ate it. But, whatever.

So H was being perfect. Awesome, in fact. Everything I had ever griped about, he has changed. He is attentive and loving and kind. And I just think I have the best guy in the world.

I tell him that all of the time, too.

I had trouble waking up this morning. Was having a bad dream--that he wanted to leave me. (Um...not likely with his behavior lately.) I guess my fear is...he means it now. Just like he meant it before that he would never leave me. But people change their minds. And that's what I'm afraid of.

I was in a crappy mood when I got up. I think I'm still a tad sick or maybe just sleep-deprived. Don't know. But the place looked like it had exploded.

I have a huge pet peeve with there being a dirty house. There were piles of his old clothes in the living room. Towels on the sick in the bathroom. The curtain was pulled back. Clothes on the floor in the bathroom. The drawers were open in the cabinet in the bathroom. Trash all over the kitchen counter. The phone book was left out....dirty dishes on the coffee table...

It all sounds soooo petty. But I hate feeling like I'm the only one who cleans. I hate feeling relegated to the roll of "housewife." (No offense intended to those who are! Just not me--like I hate the color pink or wearing skirts.) I hate feeling like I work all week, I make the majority of the money, and I have to clean everything. The times I didn't work or was in school or he made more money, it wasn't that big of a deal...but...I don't know...I hate feeling like I have to do it all.

Not to say H hasn't helped. He really has. Just not this last week--and things were a mess this morning.

I couldn't help myself....I was picking up as I was getting ready for work.

Well, H caught me. Actually caught me putting away the water jugs he bought. The cat had woken him up, wanting out of the room. And he could tell something was bothering me. I almost didn't tell him. But I used to never tell him what bothered me, so my new rule has been to be more open with him...to be less withdrawn... So I told him I was bothered that it was mess.

He got really, really hurt. Started saying he would clean--and began going around the place picking up. Said he had planned to surprise me and clean the whole place while I was at work. (

) I was really feeling bad then. I tried to get him to go back to bed...especially since he works tonight...

He kept asking me if I was mad at him, if I hated him. I was feeling sooo crappy about having told him at all about the mess bothering me...this just made it worse. I finally had to leave for work--I was already really late. He came over, and just clung to me. Asked me if I wanted him to go now. If I was going to ask him to leave.

I didn't know what to say. Nothing I said seemed to help. I just felt like crap. I told him of course not, and then I really did have to go to work.

H even told me last night that I had been kind of cranky last night. Not sure where that came from. I thought I had been trying so hard to be nice...I honestly feel like I'm going to crack, I'm so paranoid that messing up will chase him away again...

About a week ago I realized I have this overwhelming sense of guilt. About the whole seperationg thing. I feel like this second one was my fault. That if I had just been more patient with him...just been more appreciative and nice to him after he came back the first time...if I had just seen how hard he was trying, he never would have left again. I know it's not rational. But it's there.

And after this morning, I am so afraid of saying anything the least little bit critical. I don't even have to say something harshly, and sometimes he will say "don't yell at me." I don't know how to handle that. I realize that he is being oversensitive. And I spend so much time trying to build him up, I take care to compliment him on all the nice things he does, all the thoughtful things he does. (And he has been going overboard lately.) But it doesn't seem to be enough. I know this is something he has to deal with, but it's very frustrating to me.

I feel like, so often now, that I just try so hard...but sometimes it's just enough, no matter what I do...that in the end, I'm not going to be good enough for him. Especially since my changing how I approached him had such dramatic results. If all I needed to do was change a few things...if I had only known that in the first place...then maybe a lot of this is my fault, after all.

I had this weird notion for the longest time about H... I felt so secure with him. He was the first person (outside of my family) that I had met that seemed to like me for me, unconditionally. I thought he would always be there, no matter what I did or what happened. And then the first sep happened, and ripped that sense of safety from me.

Have I ever mentioned that I think I suffer from depression?

(Wow...scary...never said that out loud before...)

So...what I'm going to do...

I think I'm exhausted. Physically. From staying up too late with H on weeknights. Not going out tonight. Going to bed early, and get tons of sleep, since I have plans for tomorrow.

Also think H's being around has adversely affected my eating habits. Food plays a major role in my moods. With him around, always buying sugar or over processed foods, I've gotten away from the way I need to eat for me. I have enlisted his aid to help keep me from eating sugar. (Major contributing factor. I go in cycles when I get it out of my system. First I get mean. B!tchy. Then I get depressed--which is my current stage. Then I start to equalize.) I need to get better at not eating it when it's in the house. Also need to keep more food around for me eat--which will be much easier, since soon I'll be making more money.

Exercise more. I've been good in this area lately. Cardio helps improve my mood. I had slipped the last couple of months, but been getting back on target again the last week or so.

Sun. My mood is always worse in the winter, when I'm away from the sun. (One of the reasons I desperately want to move out of the midwest.) It's been gone the last couple of weeks, and then I was busy and didn't do any sunbathing. So I'm going to go to the tanning bed in the next couple of days, as well as try to get to the pool this weekend.

Writing. Well, actually, telling someone how I feel. Something about expressing it allows me to let go of the feelings. Just can't always talk to H without hurting his feelings.

I know all of this works. I had my moods pretty much under control by the end of the sep. Consistancy is the key...

Now that I've written all of that out, I do feel calmer. Which means I am also very tired. I need a nap...! LOL

BTW, feeling better...just heard from a friend whom I haven't talked to in quite some time. She just got married AND is pregnant. Go figure.

Yup, staying in and sleeping a lot is the plan.

(Some cuddling and ML straightened H and I bott out.

)

He just left for work. A little wine...going to work on my next tattoo some...then early to bed.

Nevanna,

Good to hear you're feeling better now. Thanks for stopping by my thread the other day. What kind of tattoo are you getting? I'm also thinking about getting another tattoo myself, but for now I gotta think of a B-day present to get for W.

MakDaddy

PS: I'm glad ML staightened things out for both of you. It has that same effect on us

Okay, realized I have been doing this too much with H, so I need to vent about that skank xrm.

I had a dream the other morning, right before I got up. XRM was at some wedding where H and I were. She was following him around like some lost puppy the whole time, and being the respectful and nice person that I am, I kept my distance to let H handle things the way he wanted. After awhile, I got fed up of being away from my my H just to "keep the peace" because she was around. So I headed over to tell her to bug off. As I walked over, xrm leans over to kiss H--and he kisses her back. I go absolutely nuts, grab her by the hair and haul her backwards, screaming "Get off my husband you filthy whore!" And then proceed to just absolutely beat on her--pounding on her, kicking her, as she just lays in this lump on the ground. In the back of my mind, I'm thinking that this is not the way to handle it--there are tons of people watching...but it just seemed like I was watching myself doing all these. I remember trying to scream, and having the hardest time waking up. When I did, my heart was racing and I nearly fell out of bed.

The whole thing really freaked me out. Even though it was a dream, I was really disturbed by how badly I just lost it. Not like me at all. And then, I had that image of them kissing just permanantly fixed in my mind. It took me over a day for the "reality" of it to fade away and feel more like a dream.

(Although, in the dream, I pictured her fat and ugly. H thought that was funny, since I do know what she looks like.) I did break down, and ask him again if there was ever anything between them. (Yeah, I know...bad me...but I had just had the dream...) And he said no. I asked if he would have told me, and he said yes. (With the first sep, it took him all of one day to come clean about the PA. I think the guilt was too much.)

Anyway, he has put off meeting with her to return the last of her things the past couple of days. (Just odds and ends he found while unpacking.) Was doing stuff with me, and just didn't want to deal with her.

So last night we went to his storage unit to dig a couple of things out and to rearrange it so we can add some of my stuff. While we were there, xrm called. (Stupid skank.) He ignored it the first time, then finally went out to answer it the second time.

While he was talking to her, I ran across a folded up piece of paper. Dunno why I was curious, but I opened it up. Obviously not H's handwriting. Anyway, I started reading it, wondering what it was. At first I thought it was some kind of poem. Actually, I thought it sounded kind of neat.

It was describing the peaceful feelings in a cemetary.

Okay, maybe I'm weird, but I like cemetaries. They are very connected places, full of history and people. I find them very relaxing. So I thought this was kind of neat to read.

A couple of paragraphs in, it got weird. Started taling about some kind of conversation in a cemetary and how that was the beginning of a love. (??) Then it stated: "A love now forbidden by another's love." (????) then it ended up saying something bizarre about being "born, living, and dieing" in a cemetary.

I showed it to H when he came back in--not accusatory or anything, just like "What in the world is this weird thing?" He read through it, and had a pretty confused look on his face. He thought it was as strange as I did--said it did look like her handwriting. He asked where I got it, and I told him. We decided maybe it was some bizarre attempt at a "love letter" meant for him to find. He mentioned that I should keep it, for evidence. (We've been looking or paying attention to any messages from her that were strange like that, just in case, since she's a real nut case.)

I did break down last night, and ask him to make her go away. I hadn't done that before. But I said I really needed her to be gone. He asked me if I wanted him to tell her to stop calling, and I said yes. (DUH!) He said that, when he finally did meet with her he was going to tell her to stop the calls. (He's also planning on telling her that I'm pregnant--even thought I'm not--to scare her away.)

I am just soooo sick of her! (And people like her!) H told me that she actually said to him, awhile back, that she "did everything right, and still didn't win"--meaning get him. Well, duh! He's married!! WTF is right with that?? Nothing! And on top of that, she still calls him--and still calls multiple times in a row if he doesn't answer. How annoying is that??

I guess xrm also got jealous that H hung out some with a FF of hers--a FF who has a live-in BF. Um, yeah. WTF right does xrm think she has to get jealous??? And, according to H, xrm was constantly cheating on her ex-bf...and then would get jealous when ex-bf would talk to other women. Um, yeah. Mixed up priorities!

What really ticks me off is that she just doesn't get it. She keeps calling and calling and calling and calling... For the most part, I've tried to stay out of it. (It's hard for me.) I've let him handle it how he wanted. But now, I've just had enough. I understood when she was acting all nuts (ie, when we think she may have been stalking him) why he would talk to her or put up with some of her nonsense. At that point, it probably really was dangerous to tell her to bug off.

But this is just stupid. I'm not going to keep holding my breath because of that whore any more. I start to feel almost normal....and then she calls.

I mean, when is she going to get it?? He's a M-A-R-R-I-E-D person...that means he's not available.

Okay, feeling better now...calmer...

I'm pretty sure nobody actually bothered to read all of that blabbering nonsense. But, well, whatever, I certainly feel better.

Nevanna-
I read it all, and I want to pat you on the back for keeping your patience. I am realizing that the feelings about and tolerance of mentions, etc of OW goes in cycles for me. I am in the middle of a down cycle, where I wish that ex-OW would fall off the face of the earth, or at least move to some other town so I didn't have to hear my H mention that he saw her, or that someone told him she is buying a house for his ex-best friend (now her boyfriend). I have lost it a bit a couple of times, and knowing how hard it is not to, I want to give you a HUGE HUG for being so patient with your H.

I only have a few more months of stupidness to go through, because H and I will be moving to Arkansas, and then we won't run into ex-OW all the time. THANK GOODNESS!

Hang in there, Nev, you're not alone.
Myrrh

Myrrh,

Glad you stopped by.

I was looking for your thread the other day, but I saw that it was locked.

And glad I'm not the only one who feels like they're going nuts. I think what really gets to me is that there was no PA, it probably started out as an EA (all the signs are there) and it sure as he!! looked like he moved in a gf after I left. Intellectually, I know it's more complex than that...and I know she's delusional... But I really just want this to be over and done with so I can just heal.

H and I are planning on moving, but it won't be for at least a year or so. Both of us can't wait to put all of this junk behind us. (And start having some babies!

)

I hope your move goes well--sometimes there's nothing else like a fresh start.

And some good-old-fashioned venting to get through the day.

Nev-
You know, I honestly had no idea my thread was locked until you said that - I haven't posted in so long...so I did make a new thread here.

And sometimes the mere appearance or rumor of infidelity is what hurts. Besides the actual things that have happened with my H, there have been rumors -it goes along with his profession and the age group of his customers. But that doesn't stop me from hating it.

I can't wait until you guys have babies. You'll be such a great mommy!

More later,
Myrrh

I did some more thinking about this last night. I was in a grumpy mood--touch of a cold--but I find it easier to act as if with H when I'm grumpy than when I'm upset.

I think there are several reasons why xrm bothers me so much more than xow. For one, he had the gall to move her into a place that was supposed to be my home after he kicked me out. (Although, to be fair, he did try to get two other guys to move in. He didn't have anyone, she offered, and he needed the money. And he did know how upset it would make me.)

I'm also bothered because I feel like he hasn't acknowledged his frienship with her was over the line. (Again, in fairness for him, women misunderstand him all of the time. The way he talks to people always comes across as flirtatious--it's this way he has of listening and paying attention to a person. He actually is the same way with guys--just doesn't have that effect.

) But I'm bothered by how attached he was to her. It took him awhile to admit the whole mess with xow was an "affair"--but H doesn't seem to understand that there are such things as an EA. Words mean a lot to me...my LL is both touch and WOA. And something about hearing him acknowledge that it was too much would do a lot for me.

I also understand that he will have to have that connection broken for awhile before he'll be able to see that. With xow, I insisted all contact be cut off. He wasn't very happy about it, but I told him that was how it had to be. So I'm (unfortunately) familiar with all of the stages.

I'm also bothered because I feel like he's been nicer to her than he was to me. He could just pack all my things, call my parents, and have my stuff waiting at the door. With her, he was trying to be gentle, and give her hints, and be "understanding." (Again, to be fair, he told me that he hated how he handled it with me, and was trying to be a better person because he knows what an @$$hole he can be.) But he's also let it drag out longer than he would have with most people. This is someone who, at one point, was making some sore of subtle threats toward me. (He never did tell me exactly what she said or implied. Only that he would feel better if I spent the night elsewhere.) And then, of all things, he said the weirdest thing last night...that he should have "cut her out completely" long time ago. (What??? There was still some chance of their "being in the same loop"???)

I'm bothered because he allowed someone to, consistantly, disrespect me. And not only did he defend her, but he still wanted to be "friends" with her.

I'm bothered that he just somehow didn't see that she was interested in him romantically. (Which, I somehow find incredibly hard to believe. He's very observant...so either he did know and isn't being straight with me or he really does just want to have friends so badly he's willing to see them was the kind of person he wants to. Knowing H, that is actually possible.) I mean, the things she did were so blatant. I asked him last night how he could have a picture of her up on his computer, but not one of me. He then told me that he did--but that he kept finding that it had "fallen over." (OMG, does he not realize how silly that sounds??)

Now, I'm not usually a paranoid person, but does that strike anyone else as a little odd?? That is just "coincidentally" happened to have "fallen over"--most of the time. (The fact that he says things like that to me...a lot....makes me think he really just didn't get it.)

I'm hurt because of this whole other life he had during the sep. (I know, I know, kind of silly...) It's not that he hung out with other guys. It's that he hung out with other women. And he'll bring them up now and then. Like this one woman, who said she was "in love" with H. (He quit hanging out with her altogether after that.) I mentioned how at least she didn't call constantly--then I said something about she was probably just infatuate with him, anyway, since she couldn't have been around him enough to be "in love." He then told me that he had known her for three months. Something about that statement just hurt so bad...I hated that he was around all these people all of the time...

I'm also hurt because, looking back, he's always had these sort of "friendship" since we've been together. I don't think it's intentional...I'm not even sure he realized that it could be harmful. And the others were so much milder.

While we were engaged, and I was still in college, he became friends with this girl who was on the dance team. Used to stop by her booth at the mall to chat with her. Talked about her quite a bit--and got upset when he realized that he had a crush on her. Really freaked him out. I didn't think much of it, and then I graduated, and that was the end of that. (He didn't even have her phone number.)

Then there was this girl who played in the band with me. We were friends, partied together some, nothing really more meaningful than that. She was very pretty. H hung out with all of us, and they got to be pretty friendly. He got so he was making the one-hour trip to see her once every week or two. At first, I didn't think much of it. Toward the end, it was kind of weird. But it still wasn't any big deal.

And then there was xow. And then, three months later xrm.

To be fair, H and I have had the discussion that it doesn't work to have opposite-gender friends. And he's been cautious about it. We've even discussed how we each came up with (on our own) guidelines to keep things in check.

I did have a MF who, in retrospect, probably was more fond of me than was appropriate. It started out being a group of us from work that hung out together...and then it was just myself and him. Someone once suggested xow might have been, at first, a way of "getting back at me"--and that is just got way out of hand. I made sure to cut off contact with him a long time ago, even before I ran across DB.

H also told me that it was "weird" living with xrm--that he didn't really like it. I'm hoping that, now that he's had a taste of what it's like to live with someone else, he'll appreciate being with me that much more.

H said to me over the weekend that he feels like I'm punishing me. I admit, I did do that after the first sep. But I feel like I've been trying really hard not to be that way this time.

I think this may be a combination of things... I think his guilt is a big part of it. I also think he was just plain old overly sensitive this weekend.

He wasn't feeling well, and was taking all kinds of stuff out of proportion. Case in point--my computer got killed over the weekend by a virus, more than likely by him looking at some adult sites

--and he was paranoid that I was going to be mad at him. Frustrated...yes. Mad? No. (Although I did ask him to quit surfing for the stuff, since I need to be able to use the comp for work.)

But he also took something I said waaaay out of proportion. He was talking about the movie "Lost in Translation"--said it was boring, I had never seen it. Said it was about an affair. I asked if they slept together, and he said no. I made some comment that those kind--emotional affairs--are just as bad as the physical ones. He got pretty upset, accused me of "throwing it in his face." I had to convince I didn't mean anything on him about it at all. (And I really didn't!)

I'm planning on looking into MC once my salary kicks in. I'm also going to do a lot of interviewing over the phone before I go in for an appointment. I've considered doing a phone consultation, but I would really prefer a face-to-face C that maybe H and I could see together. (He has said he would like to go!)

I realize that H is working very, very hard to make me happy. He has done soooo many nice things for me. And it's not that I don't appreciate them. I've made very sure to tell him that. I just...need some time to get through all of these feelings. I honestly believe it's just going to take time. I've told him that, told him to just give me time, and that we will be okay. (Although I did ask him if he felt better than he did a couple of months ago, and he said "much better"--so that's progress...

)

The annoying thing is that there was a point, at the end of the sep where I was actually able to completely let go of everything that had happened. It was the most liberating feeling in the world... That old saying about "a weight off my shoulders" sure felt true. I'm trying to get back to that feeling again.

Mak,

Let her deal with it in her own time. If you get overly pushy about it she will just get angry back - you know this.

I know that at some point I will have to deal with this myself - I know of lots of pix my W has of OM hidden away on cd's - should we reconcile it will be up to HER to get rid of them - I cannot make her.

There are some good threads around somewhere about dealing with reminders of A's - I will try to find them and quote them for you when I have a chance - have you ever read MF's or the Geno threads? they are somewhere in there..

It basically came down to those pics (in the case I remember it was memorabilia from something that OM did with W and kids!) are part of the history of the R - somewhat painfull, but they have to be integrated somehow. There will always be things to remind us of the past, so simply destroying pix will not erase that. Remind yourself it is over, and it has helped you build a better R. Thank that memory for keeping you strong in your resolve.

Actually, it may not have been clear from what I said above, but the pic was up in his old apartment when he was living with xrm. (Thus my comments about it "falling down" all of the time--I think she was purposefully laying it down or something of the sort.)

To be honest, I don't know where the picture of xrm went.

I do know that he still has pics of xow (the one he had the PA with) undeveloped. H likes to dabble in photography, and has a decent camera, and takes tons of pictures.

I'm not certain he is aware of how much the thought of running across those pictures of xow terrifies me. At first, I asked him to get rid of them. I even considered taking all of the undeveloped stuff in myself, and then just getting rid of them without his knowledge...but I decided against that a long time ago (even before DB) and told H about the little fantasy. I even went through a period where I destroyed (with a lot of enthusiasm) everything from xow...papers with her phone number and e-mail...that sort of thing. I've asked him several times to get rid of those pics, and all he will say is "It's a part of my past, even if I don't like it, and I don't want to forget it."

I'm hoping when those pics are actually developed, he'll realize how much they impact me and get rid of them.

As for xrm...ick...there is stuff in my apartment that belongs to her. Stuff that accidentally got packed with his, like a CD and bathrobe. H has been planning to deliver them back to her for the last week--I asked him if I could throw them out, or if he wanted to give them back, and I haven't touched them since.

So...I guess I've done both. I've pushed, and it doesn't help. (Just made him feel "punished.") As much this sucks, I've pretty much let him know how I feel, and then left it up to him. You can't force that disconnect any fast than it's going to happen.

Have you tried different approaches with your W? If I'm mad, then H just shuts down and retreats. If I'm upset, H will pry and pry until I tell him what's wrong. And if I can get him to ask instead of volunteering, that's better, too. So is there a particular way that works better with your W?

Ever notice how, even for a little question, I tend to write a whole novel? LOL

This is for Lady. She was born sometime in the winter of 1988, and she passed away yesterday of old age. She survived being hit by a car (piece of farming equipment?) and getting attacked by another dog. She was great dog--very protective, very energetic, and very affectionate.

Sooo...lots of interesting things happened yesterday.

I now work full-time, so I couldn't wait to get home and see my H.

He seemed a little startled by my enthusiasm. (I've been kind of down lately.) I gave him a big hug and lots of kisses.

I told him that I appreciated his letting me be upset for awhile, that I just needed some time to get myself straightened out. And I told him much I loved him and what a great guy he is.

He informed me that psycho had called, and he was meeting her for dinner. It didn't bother me much--I knew that was going to happen soon, and I just wanted it out of the way.

He was a little distracted, a little withdrawn. I'm guessing because he was going to meet xrm. He was clearly not looking forward to it, so I left him alone. After he showered, he said he was going to run by "his mom's house" (he stopped calling it his house some time ago...which is funny, since that's technically where he's supposed to be living) to get some other stuff that belonged to xrm, and then be back to change clothes.

H didn't get back for over an hour, and when he did, he was in a worse mood. Said he had a fight with his family, and that he was just going to put everything else at the house in storage. That they were griping at him because he hadn't given them any money even though his things were there, so he was just going to move all of his stuff out.

Which means he will be officially living with me.

H has been there for the last two months, anyway. I was a little weird that he hadn't checked with me first (not that I would have cared...maybe it was something about the assumption on his part). But he has had problems living with me fulltime. He has this real phobia of being trapped--and somehow, the thought that he has somewhere else he can go to other than my place has made a world of difference.

I could tell there was a tension in him about the idea that he really would have to be at my place all of the time now.

So he changed clothes, grabbed the couple of things at my place we thought belonged to her, and took off. (He looked really good when he left...I really wanted to jump him.

)

After he left, I started to head to the gym--until I realizead that my gym card was in the car he took. Ah, well. So I ran a few errands to kill some time. I wanted to call him and mention it, but I wasn't sure if that was a good idea. After I got back from the errands, I decided that I wasn't going to do or not do something just because of xrm. I figured if he couldn't take the call, he would just hit the reject button.

So I called him. He was very reserved when he answered the phone--I could hear he was still at the restaurant. I mentioned the card, but told him not to worry about it. He just said uh-uh, and we hung up. I could tell that he was tense.

After I got off the phone with him, I called my dad. My computer completely crashed the other day, and I haven't been able to get it to do anything (reformatted the drive multiple times, deleted the partition, ran fdisk...you name it). I thought the HD went bad, so I called to see if he had a spare. I told him what it was doing, and he said he had the same problem with my brother's gf's comp. Same exact symptoms. He thought it was the HD at the time, too, but found out later that the fan had gone bad, and it was overheating. Yuck. Which would mean I would need a whole new motherboard...what a pain in the butt.

While I was talking with him, H called me. I figured he just wanted to chat since he was out of dinner. Then my dad said my mom wanted to talk to me, and he put her on the phone. She then told me that the dog had "passed away." H was still calling me, but I wanted to hear what happened with the dog first. My mom told me that she had to be put down to sleep earlier in the day.

Since H was still calling me, I told my mom I needed to get off the phone. When I called H, he said he had been getting worried because I hadn't answered. I apologized, told him that I was talking to my parents and that Lady had died. He said he was sorry, and asked if I was okay. I said I would be fine. He told me that he thought things were done with xrm.

So when he got home, he told me that it hadn't been her bathrobe after all. (She thought it was mine...) Anyway, neither one of us have any idea where the black bathrobe came from, so it got thrown away. H said she didn't seem so enthusiastic about seeing him, and he thought maybe she was getting obsessed over some new guy. *(Yay!) He also said she was really surprised to hear that I was pregnant. (H decided to lie and tell her I was pregnant to get her to go away. Okay, so it's more of an exaggeration...we are planning on having kids soon...) I tried to get the details out of him (what she said, what her face looked like) but he just kept saying "she was surprised." (Typical H. He's not the most descriptive.)

I asked if he had remembered to ask her for the money she owes him. He admitted he forgot. (She owes him $90 for the phone and $300 in rent, all of which he really does need.) He said he didn't want to talk to her anymore, though. I asked if it was worth the money for her to go away, and he said he thought it was.

He was very clingy. Curled up on me on the couch and didn't want to let me get up. I think he had a very upsetting day. He asked why I hadn't called him while I was at work, and I asked why he hadn't call me.

Usually he's asleep when I call, and I feel bad, but maybe he likes it anyway. I'll just wait until he's probably awake today.

He wound up going to bed with me because he was tired. We ML, which was nice. I had just fallen asleep when he started having the bad dreams again. He hasn't had them in months, but I notice they come back when he's feeling really stressed. (So I know it's possible for him to sleep in the same bed with me...for years he had these dreams every night, until after the first sep.) He was jumping so bad it woke me up, and then him.

He apologized for waking me up. (Poor thing...he's the one with the bad dreams, and he's apologizing to me because I have to work the next day.) I told him not to worry about it, and suggested maybe he should get back up. He said he was too tired. He then starting talking about things that made him happy.

I rolled over, tried to go back to sleep, but I could tell how he was still tense. He said he was afraid. I said I was too. He asked what I was afraid of, and I told him that I was scared of him leaving me again. He said he would never do that again--that he had "learned his lesson" (his words)--but that he was scared of feeling "that way" again.

So I mentioned something I had intended to tell him before--that there are places in town you can rent for a week for about $150. That way there's no obligation or anything, and he would have a little place with a bed and a kitchen to retreat in. (Both times we have seperated, it has only been a couple of weeks before he's wanted to come home. It's just that he was doing things so fast that he was in this big mess before he knew what was going on.)

He then asked if they had these up by where he worked. I said I thought so, but I didn't know. He also mentioned that maybe he could stay with MF for a few days. I said that was also a good idea. H said the thought that he did have a place to go if he got worked up gave him a lot of comfort. I told him once we got a house, he would have his own room to do whatever he wants with. That we would put the spare bed in there, and he could set up the room however he wanted, and I wouldn't go in there.

He gave me a hug, told me that made him feel better. Knowing H, I suspect that just having that retreat will, most days, make him feel better. I'm betting he won't have to use it that much--which is what had been going on right now, with him "living" at his mom's house, but always staying at my place.

H told me several times that it wasn't me he was trying to get away from. And that it wasn't being M to me that made him feel trapped. I'm not sure he does know what it is. I told him it was okay.

He finally decided to get up and run some errands. Not sure how we got back to talking about xrm, but I asked him what exactly she had said that night he had asked me not to stay at my apartment alone. (Previous apartment.) He said she was "talking crazy." I asked him what she had said that he thought was so crazy. He finally told me that xrm had said that she knew where I lived and knew where I slept. (Um, yeah, that is kind of crazy.)

I asked him how he thought she knew that, and he said he thought she had either followed him or me there. Although I'm not sure who--H is the paranoid type, and has told me on occasion he felt like he was being followed. And I'm not sure where she would have followed me from. I don't think she knows where I work. Although she could also have just as easily seen his car from the road--it's pretty distinctive.

Doesn't matter. I guess he told her I was moving to the opposite side of town I'm really on.

He did tell me that he didn't miss xrm anymore. (Yay!) Said he did miss some of her friends--but he can't hang out with them without being around her, and he wants nothing to do with her. Some of the stuff he said also made me think I might have been reading too much into their friendship. I don't know. It's so easy to get the wrong impression...either way.

I guess it doesn't really matter. Just want to put it behind us!

Nevanna,

I am so sorry to hear of your loss. I hope this helps you.

THE RAINBOW BRIDGE

Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.

When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge.
There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together.
There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.

All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor; those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by.
The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind.

They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent; His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.

You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.

Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together....

Author unknown...

Thank you. That's very sweet.

My dad and I figure Lady was easily 17 years old--a good, old age for an outdoor dog. She really hadn't been well the last year or so. I was a little kid when she was born...kind of grew up with her.

Lady was my grandmother's dog (one of the puppies our dog Misty had). Misty passed away while I was still in high school. My grandmother suffered from Alzheimers, was in nursing homes for years, and finally passed away this past February. Lady was one of the last tangible connections I had to that childhood. She was really a great dog.

I remember the last time she was injured. Being an outside dog, we didn't realize that she had been hurt for several days, and by the time we took her to the vet, there was a huge hunk of dead flesh that had to be removed from her back. She was never a very cuddly dog, but all the way home from the vet she insisted on laying on me. Even when we brought her in the house, she would not get off of me.

I didn't really get to say goodbye to her. I'm not sure if being there when she was euthanized would have been better or not.

I'm going to find a good picture of her, and then post a memorial on the DogStar website.

Nevanna,

I'm sorry to hear about your dog and also about your grandmother. All I can say is that I feel for you, I've been in your shoes. Last year we lost both of our cats, they had to be put to sleep on the same day. We lost FIL soon after, we lost them all to cancer. I know it's difficult, but you pull through. D4 does not understand it yet, so we just tell her that Grandpa and the kitties are in the hospital because they have a boo boo

MakDaddy

Thanks Mak.

I'm feeling a little calmer now. Still sad, I miss her. I had been wanting to go spend a nice day with her outside sometime...was just waiting for a day when it wouldn't be too hot for her.

H gave me a big hug, though.

He was very sweet, told me I should take a rose out to where she's buried.

He always liked her well, but hadn't seen her in a very long time, because of the sitch. (Lady stayed at my parents' house.) He's a real animal lover (like me), and I think he was kind of hurt as well.

H just left for work. I'm feeling very calm about our R today. Much better after his dinner yesterday with xrm. It's a nice feeling.

Hope you have a good evening. I'm going to have glass of wine and curl up in bed.

Noticed this again with my H last night--it still surprises me.

So I'm starting to calm down again, after we reconciled, and starting to feel in control and relaxed and happy and confidant. All those nice things. (Funny how the reconciliation threw me sooo out of whack.) And now he's the one who is uptight and concerned and needy.

Actually, he's been pretty clingy lately. He couldn't wait for me to get off of work yesterday. I'm only here another 1 1/2 hour now...but when he called me in the afternoon, he said he couldn't hardly stand it. He also waited on me to get home from work to go the gym...and then didn't go at all since I couldn't until I ate. He ran out of time before he had to go to work. (And this is a guy obsessed with the gym.)

I also told H last night that my new payrate is going to kick in sooner than I had thought.

He asked again if he could quit a job (he works at two bars now), and I told him of course he could. That way we can actually go out together on the weekends.

He said he might not, because he really likes the people he works with at the second job--so he might just request days off now. Which will work just fine. At least now we can go out and have some fun together.

Anyway, I'm feeling calm. Told H that yesterday, and had thanked him for letting me be neurotic for awhile.

Gave him a hug when he left for work. All that nice good stuff.

So when H came in last night, he was really upset. Kept going on about how he was still upset by something. Took me a minute to figure out what he was talking about, but it was an incident at my former job...during the first sep, and before I learned not to involve coworkers... Anyway, he was going on again about how hurt he was about the whole thing. Even in my sleep I can validate.

(Actually, it's easier for me...a lot of my DBing was done in my sleep over the last few months...LOL)

Didn't argue with him or tell him my side of it. He actually then justified my actions a bit--said that I was listening to other people too much, and let them influence me. (Which kind of irritates me, because WTF did he think he was doing when he was hanging out with xow all the time?? If it weren't for that whore he would have never tried to leave me the first time...!)

He wanted me to go lay down with him on couch, but I was feeling pretty sick, so I asked him to just let me sleep. I must have been pretty congested, because I was having a hard time breathing with the smoke smell stuck on his shirt. Usually it's not such a big deal (even though it stinks).

He asked me again when I got up this morning to stay home from work. (I think he's asked me to stay home just about every day for the last two months. At least Labor Day is coming up...

)

Had a really bad sinus headache most of yesterday. H was very sweet and massaged my neck, shoulders, and scalp for a loooong time. It wound up keeping him from the gym. I felt bad, but he said he just wanted to be near me.

H needed to feed the rats over at his mother's house, but didn't want to go in there. He said she's been asking for money, and he wouldn't have any to give her until after he worked this weekend. (He accidentally overdrew the other day...and then got zapped by the fees.) I offered to go in and feed the rats, since they won't gripe at me, if he would drive me over.

After I was done, H commented that he hated that as soon as he walked in the door, his mom and brother would gripe at him. He commented, "So this is what it's come to--I have to ditch my own family." Observation...again, H is definately avoiding confilct. I want to make sure that I don't jump on him as soon he gets home in the future...

I asked him later if he was going out. Not that I want him to go, but I don't want him to feel too cooped up.

He said no--he just wanted to stay with me. (Not sure how much fun that was going to be--I was headed to bed!)

He told me he felt like he had seperation anxiety. (I almost wanted to laugh, not because it was funny, but because I knew exactly how he felt! I used to get that way when he was constantly taking off to hang around with his "friends.") I told him I understood, it was okay, and he would feel better with time. He thanked me for sticking by him this entire time--told me how incredibly lonely he had been without me, how much he hated it.

I layed down on the couch with him while he had a margarita and watched a movie. Later, he got me up to take me to put me in bed. He brought up an incident again where he felt I had humiliated him. (All I did was tell my supervisor at a previous job that I didn't want to talk to H. He then got security involved...and it was a whole big mess...they basically threw H out of the building.) I hate it when he brings this up. But I just listened, and validated. He calmed down pretty quick, added that he knew I had no idea things would get that out of hand. (Case in point on how validation works!)

Then he told me how sorry he was about everything that happened. Kept repeating he had never meant for things to get so out of hand. The best response I've found to this is "I know." Saying "it's okay" or "I forgive you" only seems to make him feel worse.

I gave him a big hug and kiss when I left for work this morning. He just smiled, told me to have a good day at work.

Nev-
Hey, you! I was sorry to hear about Lady - losing a furry friend is never easy. I am glad to hear you are doing okay with it.

You're doing great being gentle with your H right now - he seems like he is in need of a lot of TLC. I think some people don't realize how, hmm, not delicate, but sensitive guys can be. My H is in kind of a delicate phase right now - with all the transitions from self-employment to full-time student, he seem s alittle off-balance, and is at home and wanting to snuggle a lot. It can be a little overwhelming, but only if I forget to take care of myself first. I, also, was a little taken aback when my H did suddenly move back in "for real." His space was such a big deal for so long that it was really surprising when he did an about face and wanted so much time at home and with me.

I am very contented with our sitch, but it is an adustment. As long as I remember that, I am just fine!

You are doing great with the A-momento issue...I had a b-day card incident a couple of weeks ago (b-day from xow to H, really sappy) - those reminders REALLY hurt. Likea punch in the stomach. But the feeling does pass.
Hugs,
Myrrh

Well, I got a message from the doctor's office today. Said that my pap results had come back, and that the doctor wanted me to come in for a "quick 30 minute appointment" to talk about it. I called them back, but I can't get in until Tuesday afternoon.

The message freaked me out. I was shaking, and went into the bathroom at work to call H. As far as I know, a pap smear only checks for two things--STD's and cervical cancer.

Talked to H for 45 minutes. He did a little research on the internet. It's doubtful that I have an STD...and, even if I did, I've only been with him. He said he would "never forgive himself" if he gave something to me. (When I first started dating H, he told me only had a few partners. I recently found that he had, well, a lot more than that.) But neither of us has ever had any kind of symptoms...

Okay, I admit, I know nothing about cervical cancer. All I could think about is that I want to have a baby.

H told me he didn't care if it turn out that I couldn't have kids--that he would always be with me. It was very sweet, I know he was trying to help me feel better.

H asked if he could call and ask BIL2 for advice. (He's in pre-med, and is a medic in the army.) I said it was fine, I just didn't want anyone else to know. (Especially not his mom!) I don't want anyone else to worry if there's nothing to worry about yet. And, honestly, being fussed over by family is just going to make me feel worse.

BIL2 told H that we're overreacting--that it probably just meant the pap had picked up "abnormal cells." Which could mean a lot of things. According to BIL2, the doctor could have just hit a cyst, or it could just mean that I have some type of infection. That there is inflammation or I could even have a yeast infection. (Very likely with me...I am prone to them...but it's never showed up on any of the others.)

H wanted me to come home, but I told him I really needed to do a few things at work. (And busy helps me feel better.) I just hate having to wait until Tuesday...

I know I'm jumping to conclusions and ASSuming, but I just can't help it in this case.

Well, we almost ML the night before...then I remembered...

We did two days before, but I'm not sure that should have affected it. It was about a week before my period, so I don't think that's too close.

I'm feeling a bit calmer...I realize they can't tell me anything over the phone...I just hate this kind of stuff.

I am going to hop in here, too! I had an abnormal PAP a month ago, too, and I am having a repeat one next week. There are lots of reasons that can happen, but I totally understand the fear!
Hugs,
Myrrh

Thanks Myrrh.

I'm feeling better--still anxious, but better. H was pretty upset when I got home. I even came home early today.

I gave him a big hug and held him for awhile. He's feeling better, now, but I think it really shook him up.

Thanks guys...I do feel better knowing I'm not the only one.

I can only guess it's because of my DBing, but I'm really not that uptight anymore. No reason to be upset until there's a real reason. Although H is still really upset--he didn't want to go to work tonight.

Anyway, couple of other things I found out about xrm. They're funny.

There was this one night while they were living together that he got really trashed. And xrm said something to the effect of "wouldn't it be nice if we hooked up?" Well, I found out more of the details. I guess she was sitting next to H, and trying to get closer, and had put her leg over his or something to that effect.

H retreated to his room, and passed out. (I'm guessing this was one of those nights he called me at 4am when he was trashed.) Told me that when he got up, he wasn't sure what had happened, if it was in his head because he was drunk, but he took off as soon as he could from the apartment.

(This was the night she would later allude to as the "magical night"--sure confused the hell out of H when she said that.)

Hehe, she got shot down... Okay, so we think one of her delusions may center around that evening...but it's still funny that she didn't get her way.

(I told H earlier that was basically an invitation, and he agreed with me.)

I guess when he went to dinner with her this Monday, they were talking something about how even the married guys get hit on at the club. And xrm made some weird comment about "been there, won't do that again." He thinks maybe she was talking about him, but who knows.

We talked some about how obvious she was--even from the beginning. H said he did see it, but wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt because people always misinterpret him. (Very true. Happens, actually, quite a lot. Those are different stories...but pretty funny, too...) I said he gave her too much benefit, and he agreed...said he wouldn't give anybody else any benefit.

Not much going on tonight. I've got a touch of a cold, no money until the new salary kicks in, and I have to do something for work at home tonight. (At midnight, of all things.) Hope everyone has a good weekend.

So, H came in late from work this morning. No big deal. I asked if he had gone out to breakfast, and he said yes.

Later, after I got up, I went down to his car to get something. In the backseat, I saw a shopping bag. I grabbed it to see what was in it, and it was some new womens clothing. Not my size.

I was upset by it. But I didn't want to go jump down H's throat. So I went back upstairs, shook H gently, and asked him about the clothes. He got this really confused look on his face, said he thought they were mine. I said they weren't my size. He asked me again, then thought about it, and said they might have been [female coworker from new job], that he had given her a ride.

I was a little bothered, mostly because he hadn't told me he had given her a ride. (Of course, I was asleep when he had come in, so it's not like he'd had a chance to.) He could tell I was upset, and said "It's not what you think. It can't be--they're new clothes."

It took me a second to realize H thought that I thought they were forgotten from some tryst. I told him no, I though maybe he was getting really friendly with someone again, and it worried me. He said no, and asked me again if they were mine.

He told me that he and FCW had gone out to breakfast after work. That he had asked other people, but she was the only one who wanted to go. Then afterwards she was going to call a cab, so he offered to give her a ride home. So the bag was most likely hers.

I validated. Told him of course he was hungry after work, that's normal. I also told him that yes, I was weird that he had given her a ride home. But that I also knew that I was just being insecure and overly sensitive, that I had no reason to get upset yet. He said he knew that I didn't want him hanging out with people outside of work, so he was trying to be respectful.

He then said he felt like I was being accusatory. (Sheesh!) I told him that I was trying not to be, but that I had thought it best just to come to him and ask him about the clothes. That I didn't want to come in screaming or hysterical, but I didn't want to be moody and distant either. That he had always told me to just come talk to him, so that's what I was doing. He said I was right, he was probably just sensitive because he was mostly asleep.

I told him that I didn't think he was fooling around with anyone, just that maybe he was getting too friendly again. He said he wouldn't make that mistake again.

So no big deal. I also had thought maybe the clothes belonged to his mother, but she hasn't been in the car with him. H asked me if I had been out with anybody in the car, and I said no. He was going to call FCW, but he doesn't have her number.

I think he really doesn't know where they came from. Even with all of our problems, he has never been the type to sneak around on me. I always knew where he was at or who he was with. In fact, it was really obvious when there was an EA...because I heard that name over and over and over and over. Haven't heard FCW more than a dozen times.

Chalk one up for patience and understanding on both of our sides.

Couple of interesting convos today...

While H was sleeping, he had a really bad dream. I went in when he called me, and laid down on the bed to hold him. He told me, in the dream, that I had made friends with this married guy with lots of money. That the married guy bought me all kinds of stuff, but all he really wanted was to get me into bed. But, that I didn't see that. In the dream, I was hanging out with the guy over at his house, and had invited H to come over as well. But he had decided he was going over there to get me to come home. He was frustrated because the guy obviously wanted to have sex with me, but I just didn't see it. I listened, and validated, and talked to him until he realized it was just a dream and he felt better. I really wanted to tell him that that was how I had felt about xrm (although she didn't exactly have any money), but I just resisted the urge and reassured him.

When H woke up, I told him about this guy who I thought was hitting on me at the pool, but I wasn't too sure. He invited me to a house party. H said I should go. I said I would like to, it's not that I don't want to get out and meet new people, but I don't want to go a party that a guy invited me to. I'm not sure what he was thinking, and I'm so gun-shy about the whole A business that I don't want to set myself/us up for any more problems. (Especially since this last time, H's friend turned out to be delusional...and, well, crazy...)

I told H my reasons--how I had done all of this reading on how A's start. And after everything we've both been through, I don't want to put myself in the position--because the line between friendship and EA is sooo hard to see.

He asked me what the stages were, so I gave him a quick rundown. How it usually starts out as a friend of the opposite gender. Then you hang out more and talk. Then you start sharing personal details about things. After that it's "this person understands me like no one else did." (He cringed--I mentioned xow, because that's what he always said about her. I told him it was okay, we both know better now.) Then you start to feel an attraction, but know you don't want to do anything. (I pointed out H said this about xrm, which was why I was so uptight about her.) Then the two people admit their "feelings" to each other, but decide not to do anything because it would hurt other people. Then they have this "secret love"...which turns into they feel like they have found their "soulmate." And then you have your affair.

He was pretty interested, asked what else I had learned. I told him some sites I had run across mentioned activities you should avoid to help prevent affairs. He asked what those were. I said personal conversations, and also anything that was like a "date" activity--such as going out to eat together.

H got kind of paranoid, since he had breakfast with a female coworker earlier in the day, and they had wound up talking about some personal stuff. He said he was afraid he might give her the wrong impression. H also said he was going to offer to give her a ride whenever she needed it (she doesn't have a car), but that now he thought that wasn't a good idea. He said he didn't want to get into a situation like he had with xrm.

I was pretty surprised at how receptive he was. Not only did he listen, but he considered a different angle on his actions. Which wasn't what I was trying to do! I was trying to explain to H why I was being sooo careful in regards to MF's and myself. I basically don't want H to think that I'm having an EA or to feel left out like I have. Maybe I'm being overly careful, but I'm just so sensitive to the whole idea right now. The only guy I feel okay to hang out with is BIL2.

Later, while we were getting ready to go out, I apologized for my MF a few months back. (Just before he started hanging around xow.) I told him I realized now that MF had bothered him, and if he had told me, I wouldn't have spent so much time with him. He said it wasn't that I spent time with him...it was something else...but that he felt there was no reason to get upset, so he hadn't told me. I told H that I was just trying to learn how to make friends. (I was always an incredibley shy person--probably bordered on a social phobia.) And that I had never asked anybody to hang out with me before--I had always just gone when invited. That with MF, all I was trying to do was learn to be more outgoing. He said he knew that, and didn't blame me. But I feel better for apologizing. I know with me, I wish he would just tell me that some of his activies with xrm were inappropriate--it would mean a lot to me. So I was trying to give him the same thing.

Then, not sure how it came up, I mentioned how I had taken his glasses from the bathroom and put them on the bedstand this morning for him so he would be able to find them easily. I asked him if he noticed when I did those things, or if he did and just didn't mention it.

He asked if he seem unappreciative, and I just said I wasn't sure if he just wasn't saying anything or he didn't notice I did those little things. He said he did notice. I told him that it was just nice to hear it--that WOA work nicely for me.

Then we got into a discussion of 5LL. Mine being touch, then WOA. H's are touch and acts of service. (WOA actually work really well on him.) How neither of us needed gifts that much. This carried over to analyzing how the 5LL's worked with other people.

H totally got it--and thought it was interesting. How different people express love differently. We had fun examing different people that we knew. It was like someone had turned on a lightbulbe for him.

He got kind of stuck on xrm, though. Decided that she was just selfish and self-absorbed...that she wanted gifts and WOA and acts of service and QT. But never gave anything--except, maybe QT--in return. That she was high-maintenance and annoying, and he would never want to deal with someone like that.

It's nice to know that H is so receptive to this kind of information.

He actually finds the 5LL fascinating--probably because he's pretty interested in people, in general. I'm going to the 5LL book after I get paid, that should be an interesting read for both of us.

Not much for the weekend. I was feeling very cooped up--no money until the new salary kicks in.

H is feeling veeeery clingy--kind of getting on my nerves, but I actually understand the feeling, so it's not too bad.

He's still worried about the whole doctor thing. (The appointment is this afternoon.) I'm okay. He thinks it's weird. I told him I was upset and worried for a few hours, and now there's no reason to worry until I see what the doctor has to say. (DB at it's finest--leaking over into other areas of my life!

)

H even had offers from a couple of people to go out Sunday. He told me he turned them down because he had promised to spend time with me. (:D Pre-bomb source of stress...H always ditching me at the last minute to go out.) I said I wanted to go out, and asked if he wanted to go anyway. H said the idea hadn't occurred to him, but that he would rather go home and cuddle anyway. (So we stayed in...also saves on gas right now.)

I was in a weird mood yesterday. Finally tracked it down...this time a year ago is when things got really strange between us. When xow was heavily influencing him.

I realized that I was just dwelling... H caught on that I was really somewhere else, and I finally told him why. He just gave me a big hug and apologized.

I went to bed a little late. We were watching a movie, and I didn't realize what time it was. He put me to bed...

When he came to bed, he was upset again. (I've noticed he gets upset when he's tired.) I can't remember exactly what he was saying...but there were a lot of apologies and "I can't believe I acted that way..." H is really embarassed and ashamed of the way he treated me. I try not to bring it up--I know how bad he feels. I think he's also very anxious about this appointment. He asked me to hold him, and I did. I tried to give him a massage, but when you're tired, it doesn't work too well.

He was pretty clingy when I left for work this morning. Kept asking me if I was okay (about the doctor). I really am calm. I think he's never seen me this way before, and isn't sure what to think about it. I also think he keeps asking because he's not. I'm almost certain it's just an infection...I'm prone to those, anyway.

Okay, so I had the doctor's visit. It was interesting. H picked me up from work. He was really, really uptight. Very jittery. He actually described it as waiting for the executioner. I am glad that he went with me, though.

The doctor gave me a lot of info, which I'm going to try to distill down to the important stuff. Bottom line: my pap said that I have "unclassifed" cells. Meaning that I don't have cancer. But...they did run a test on the sample, and I do have HPV in my system. HPV being the virus that can cause cervical cancer. (But doesn't mean it will.)

The doctor also emphasized that it wasn't necessarily sexually transmitted--that it didn't mean I had gotten it from H. That it's the same virus as the one that gives you warts on your hands. (Which I have had in the past.) So it doesn't mean it came from him.

Anyway, I need to go back for another procedure (colposcopy??) so that the doctor can actually take a look at my cervix to look for any indications of cancer. I guess the percentages are still really low... If there is anything there, then I will need a biopsy.

Here's the kicker. I have no medical insurance whatsoever at this point.

I have to pay for all of this out of pocket. Bonus...my salary kicks in a week from Thursday. More money, so I should be able to pay for it.

I'm not that bothered that I have to go through all of this. I even double-checked to see if H was at risk--which he's not. And I asked about my ability to get pregnant in the future...which is also not a problem.

I'm a little bothered by H's behavior afterward. He said he felt dirty, like he had an STD. He seemed to think that it was a different virus that caused warts on the hand versus warts on the genitals. The doctor had said it was the same thing. I told him we didn't know where it came from, and it didn't matter--chances were he has it at this point, regardless of where it came from.

As he was driving me back to work, he started asking all kinds of weird questions. (I think he was a little lost with everything the doctor was saying.) He asked what it meant if he and I were to break up--would it affect any future partners he might have. (WTF?? He was just telling me how he coulnd't live without me!!) I told him I didn't know, exactly, but that it could be transmitted to someone else... He said he was just trying to figure it out from all angles. (Which I can see...his brain does work that way...)

I said something I shouldn't have, though. I only recently found out the real number of partners he has had. He had always told me before it was a much, much smaller number. I'm not bothered by the promiscuity so much as the deception. Yes, it's not me, it's not how I think he should have behaved--but that doesn't make him a bad person or a bad H. I told him that if I had known that before we had started having sex, I would have asked him to have an STD test. I know he always used a condom--he's actually pathological about it--but I still would have asked him to.

H actually had the nerver to ask me if we still got buy shoes when I get paid. I told him I wouldn't be able to afford it right now, since I have to pay to have this stuff done.

Why was he thinking of that when I'm worried about something I'm going to have to pay out of pocket for??

I feel more betrayed by the fact that his misleading me may have endangered me more than the fact that he (however small a chance) may have given me something. I can deal with the fact that he may have given me something. (Although I realize that that is jumping to conclusions...I could have just as easily gotten in when I had warts on my hand a few years back...) What I'm bothered by is the fact that he felt he had to mislead me, especially about that.

When he dropped me off, he asked me if I blamed him. I said I didn't. (I can't say that's 100% true...I honestly don't know...) He said that I must hate him now. I took a minute to give him a big hug and a kiss, tell him I would see him in a couple of hours.

I'm feeling really weird and insecure. Weird about having the procedure done. Weird about H's having lied about his sexual history. And I feel like, right now, I can't go to him without him taking it all wrong and running. Right now I just need a big hug and some understanding from him...and I feel like I'm being forced back into the role of comforting him.

I feel like I never get the chance to be the one who is upset, without him thinking I am "angry" or trying to "punish" him. I feel like I don't just get to cry on him and be vulnerable. I realize right now that I'm generalizing because I'm upset...and that's probably not true...I'm just sick of feeling like I have to censor my emotions around him...

Nevanna,

I'm sorry your H has put you in the unenviable position of comforting him when you are experiencing feelings of anxiety and worry without adding him to the mix.

I want to take a few minutes to offer what comfort I can. (Never did I ever imagine sharing this stuff with the world...)

I have had cervical cancer and have HPV present as well. Although all the literature and videos I've watched have indicated it IS transmitted sexually, you realize that there is absolutely no point in wondering how you ended up with it?

Blame is a useless thing and also a cheeseless tunnel, and I'm happy that you don't seem to be buying into this one.

I found out I was pregnant with D7 3 days after I got the grim news... and the good news is that I was able to carry her to full term without complications. Her disability is genetic and not at all related to this stuff.

The colposcopies are just a teensy bit uncomfortable--only because they can cause some cramping, bleeding and/or nausea, depending on the location. Same goes for the biopsies. With a lot of diligence and luck on your part, you can have this behind you in short order.

I have also read that research scientists are studying the effects of HPV on men--wondering if there is any link to prostate cancer? More on this one as time marches on, I'm sure.

I'm absolutely diligent with my paps, and have been cancer free for 5 years now. All my parts are still intact too!

I have more than a handful of friends who have traveled this route--all with happy stories and reports and who are happy and healthy today. Somehow, I am hoping you will fall into that category as well.

If I might offer anything on this subject, you are both entitled to your feelings. As much as this galls me to say, why not validate his feelings and use them as a stepping stone to discussing your own? Sharing this stuff is certainly an intimacy builder, and it might be something that helps move the 2 of you back toward each other.

Good luck and keep the faith!

Betsey

Nevanna-
Here is my earlier reply that I didn't get a chance to post:
Nev-
The third of September is the year anniversary of H moving out. It's been kind of a tough time for me.

I am also occasionally missing my space. H is home A LOT, and sometimes it just kinda grates on me a bit. I love him, I want him here, but tranisitioning from being alone a lot and in charge of my space and time to being really "married" again is an adjustment.

I am actually thinking about getting a part-time job, just to give me some time out of the house. I guess I developed some independence while he didn't live here, and I still need alone time sometimes.

One thing Betsey (Underdog) has hammered into my head time and time again: if you don't take care of yourself, you won't have any patience or energy for anyone or anything else. That is so true! I am finding that one way I need to take care of myself is by giving myself some space.

Now here's my reply to the current post. I also have HPV in my system. It was pretty ugly when I found out, as I was not as well-informed as your doctor helped you to be, and I got pretty upset with my H, as I knew his ex had it. Anyway, I also had that abnormal pap, and am getting a repeat and possibly a colposcopy. So far I haven't had any problems with it, and it was detected before my pregnancy. My doctor was kind of rude about it actually, insinuating that I should demand some answers from my then boyfriend, and questioning whether I was really making a good choice being with him.

My question to you re no health insurance - is your income too high for medical assistance? If so, could you do a payment plan, or ask for a discount? Some places will discount your care, and some won't. It always helps to discuss the situation with the billing office.

Hugs,
Myrrh

H and I talked some more last night. I'm getting the feeling that he's really feeling bad about the idea that it probably came from him. I think he's ashamed at having picked up something, and guilty about the possibility of having passed it on to me.

I told H that, often, there are no symptoms in men. So he had no way of knowing. I also told him that it may not even have anything to do with his number of partners--that one of my best GF's got something from her first partner. I think that made him feel better. (He is actually really ashamed about the number of people he has been with. He kept saying that "it wasn't really that many..." and I would just agree with him.)

He mentioned how bad of an infection he had a few months back, and how he felt bad about asking me if I had cheated on him. (It was a pretty bad infection.) But that he felt like he had a right to now, and that he really did believe me when I told him that I hadn't. (He kept looking at me really funny, at the time, so I'm not so sure he was convinced then.) I told him of course he had the right to ask me, that was his health.

I told H that I knew he would have told me if there was something else I should have known. That I trusted him, since it was about my health. (True. He wouldn't lie or hide things from me in this case.) He agreed...and mentioned something we had talked about before.

He was a little worried that something might have happened while he was really, really drunk one night at his apartment. That he doesn't remember anything, but he had a weird feeling the next day. It was the night that xrm had referred to as the "magical night." She has also claimed they had sex...but that doesn't prove anything, since she says a lot of other things happened that didn't. She had basically offered, and H remembers he went to his room. Then he said he passed out, and the next day he just felt this strange sense of unease. But that he did wake up dressed, so he didn't think anything had happened.

We had talked about this, actually, some time last week. He's a little concerned that maybe she took advantage of him, but he doesn't know. His discomfort could have also been from the fact that she made it known that she would sleep with him.

Personally, I don't think anything happened. Knowing H, if he was that out of it, there was no way he would have woken up still dressed. And, I know he used to call me those nights he was drunk. I'm fairly certain I talked to him that morning, because we had one conversation where I don't think he knew up from down. But the whole thing really makes him uncomfortable.

And also, H made a real point of telling me that he didn't do anything with her after we reconciled. He sounded incredibly proud of himself.

And he said he knew I wouldn't take him back if he slept with her (not true...althought it would have been harder...).

I told H if that had happened, I wouldn't blame him. He said he knew that--but I wanted to make sure he heard that. I think this whole thing just has him on edge. He told me he was really digging around in his memory to try to figure out where it might have come from.

We also talked about other places it might have come from--ways that were out of his control. (He was the one who wanted to talk...I would have let it drop.) I think he began to realize there is really no way for us to know where it came from for certain.

I made sure to leave him some nice vmails when he went to work. After our discussion about the 5LL the other day, H said he thinks his primary may actually be WOA. (I still think it's AOS...but, hey, whatever works...

)

I was pretty out of it when he came home. I can't wait to get off of work and go see him.

Nevanna,

Good stuff here! Glad that this is fostering better communications between the two of you.

I think it's important to realize that HPV is a virus, not a STD. Viruses CAN make us sick or cause disease, but often our immune systems are able to ward them off. Sometimes not, and then we show symptoms that reveal more.

Ask him to think if he'd be feeling guilty about giving you the flu just because he kissed you on the cheek or held your hand in the movie theater? BTW, most viruses ARE transmitted through our hands...

It seems as though your validation efforts are paying off. Keep up the good work and keep us posted on your progress.

Betsey

Nevanna, I've been checking out your thread for the first time in awhile, and I see you've been dealing with this little crisis--I'm so sorry--but it looks like you have handled it very well, gotten the facts, soothed yourself and H, etc. I assume this will mean annual pap smears for you

? I guess it could be much worse......and hey, it may put some fear (the good, reasonable kind) in H's heart about this type of thing.....

Hang in there, Nevanna. You're doing so well.

GBO

I was a little angry last night. I still slip every once in awhile.

It really grates on my nerves that he thought it was acceptable to have a female roommate while he was still married, even if we were seperated. Especially if he, in any way, wanted to work through things with me.

Well, H wasn't home when I got there. Funny, I really missed him...and I was the one complaining the other day that I felt smothered.

Just goes to that is has nothing to do with how much time I'm spending with him, and more to do with my feeling cooped up in general.

BIL2 called to see how the doctor visit went the day before, said that he was worried. I told him. He was kind of baffled by it, said he wanted to read up (he's pre-med, and serves in the N'tl Guard as a medic). I told him everything was okay, though, and not to worry too much about it.

I hadn't seen much since H went to work the night before. Hadn't even talked to him earlier in the day. So when he got home, I gave him a huge hug and kiss. He felt soooo good--I think he had really missed me, too.

I had talked to my mom earlier in the day. Mentioned the whole doctor stuff. Talked about H some. She made some derogatory remarks...like when I mentioned how he helped clean, she said "Oh, is this a new guy?" And then she asked if he was seeing a C--but the way she said it implied that he was on the crazy side. I decided not to mention any of it to H...he's pretty sensitive, and what good would it really do? None.

I fixed him dinner--haven't done that in a long time. Usually we eat at totally different times and completely different things, anyway. He liked the attention.

I had meant to go the gym, but we wound up ML. It was later in the evening, and it just put me to sleep. I didn't notice H went out until I heard him come back in. (He had told me that he was planning on going out for awhile.) I think it did him good just to get out of the house for some time.

When H came in, I had been having a bad dream. I've been having these, lately, where they feel very, very real. And it takes me some time to get rid of the feelings because the events seem real. In this one, H and I and his family were at a restaurant. Only H was ignoring me...and talking with some other woman. Paying all kinds of attention to her, and listening to her. Ignoring me. (Hm. Wonder where this dream came from???

)

Anyway, I told H in my dream he was acting funny. He layed down next to me, put his arms around me, and asked if he was acting funny now. I said no. He asked if I still got scared that he was going to leave. I said yes, but it wasn't nearly as bad anymore. The talking woke me up some, which helped, then moved to lay down with him on the couch.

H put me back in bed around 6am. I could have just gotten up for work, but I wanted to sleep with him for a little bit. He wanted me to hold him, said that he was sorry. I asked what for. He said for breaking my heart. I told him I loved him. He said he knew he loved me, he just didn't realize that he couldn't live without me. I sometimes wonder if he was trying to prove something to himself?? To see if he could live without me? Or maybe it was some weird test? I don't know. It doesn't matter.

He said he didn't know how he could ever make it up to me. That he thought about it every day. (I didn't know that before he told me.) I told him he was doing just fine...that all he needed to do was keep doing what he's doing. I asked him if he felt better than he did 3 or 4 months ago. H said he did. I said that I did, too. I told him that we would both feel even better in another 3 months. That all it takes is time.

H asked again this morning if I could stay home from work. I told him I couldn't...I don't have any time off yet.

I gave him a big hug and kiss, though.

Feeling pretty good today, though. I'm getting back to that calm, centered place I had at the end of the sep. It's a nice feeling. I'm feeling very warm, very loving. Accepting. Looking forward to having kids and moving and getting a house. All of those nice things. It's a good feelng.

Hi Nevanna,
Glad to see that you can sift through what is going on and finding your calm, centered place!

I had abnormal cells once too, but the next pap was fine. I'm sure you'll be ok!

karen812

Nev-
Since you've never steered me wrong before, I am going to ask your input. I am having a REALLY hard time because I am flashing back a lot to the A's - it's coming out as irritability, anger, rage and some of it was because I was sifting through old papers, reading my journal from the beginning of our separation, one-year anniversary of that, and I was reading a book about a 15-year-old who has an affair with a married man and gets pregnant (good book, bad timing).

Anyway, I have been pretty bitchy, and tonight I stooped to a level I haven't gone to in a long time - I snooped in H's e-mail. So, here's my question: what do I do now? I don't know if I need space, or time, or whatever to get through this latest bout of A-trauma. Do you think I should tell him I looked in his e-mail?

I need an honest opinion, and I really hope that this post has not stirred up any bad stuff for you.
Lots of love,
Myrrh

I'm flattered.

Must be something in the air.

I had a really bad night as well...sure surprised me. I think it was because xrm called. (I'll tell you more about that in a minute!)

With me, I've found I have two different types of backslides. The first kind is temporary, low-scale. That one a good dose of Act As If and a bit of distraction helps me with. It's usually like the stray thoughts, or a just random feelings. And that's pretty easy to squash.

Then there's the more major "meltdown"--which is what it sounds like you had. (Like I did last night.) This kind is usually uncontrollable, and triggered by something on TV or finding something physical. I almost think this is a release of emotions I've kept pent up, and necessary in the healing process. There are several things that I find help me.

First off, I tell myself it's okay to be upset. That I went through a traumatic experience, and my feelings are completely understandable. (Sometimes it's hard to think that, when all I want is to feel better!) Usually, I have to allow myself to actually feel these feelings. And they run the range...anger, disgust, hurt, depression...

I also, once I start to calm down, remember what I felt like on a good day. I try to remember that sense of calm and focus. The more I do that, the more I can actually feel that way.

Then I make sure to do something so that I feel better! Something for me.

And I make sure to apologize to H for badly handling my feelings. (Although I have not apologized for having the feelings in months.) I make sure to thank him for whatever he did that helped me feel better. (Even if it was minor, and I needed more...it encourages this behavior in the future.)

The good news is...once you get out the feelings...you're going to have some really good days!

I think the idea is to get to a point where you have these times less and further apart. That's my goal.

I think it's also important to remember you're human. You're going to have bad days. It's not healthy to bury the feelings--but that doesn't mean you have to let the control you, either. Try to find a constructive outlet to process the feelings. You won't truly be able to get rid of them until you've run the entire gamut.

Of course, I'm not suggesting throwing things at your H.

But running is a very cathartic way of dealing with things. (Did wonders for me after the last doctor's visit.) Have you ever tried martial arts? Sparring is a great way to relieve tension.

And try not to be too hard on yourself! I've found when I stopped trying so hard to feel okay...I just sort of suddenly did. Once I gave myself permission to feel things (although not necessarily act irrationally) I magically felt better.

As far as snooping...well...I've told my H about all of the snooping I've done. I kind of felt like if he had to be completely honest, I should too. No, he didn't take it well. And I don't think I could have told him much sooner than I did. But I am glad I did. I think it's best for both of us to be honest. (And I think he felt better, knowing I wasn't "perfect" either.)

I've also noticed I am much more likely to get upset if I haven't had enough sleep or not been eating well lately.

Hope this helps...

Sooo...last night xrm calls. From a number he didn't recognize. So he answered it. He was really weird sounding... It got me kind of funny, but I didn't say anything. When H came back over to the couch, he told me she called. Had wanted to know when he was leaving for the army. I think he was really unnerved, as well.

It put me in a weird mood. I had just bragged she hadn't called in two weeks.

Ah, well. We went to the gym. (Which was fun.) Went out to do some errands. After we got home, H mentioned that xrm had at one point told him that I had gotten my tattoo just to get him back. The irony is...she tried to "get him back" by telling him she was going to get a tattoo...LOL...he saw right through it...

(Okay, I did get it for me. But I also knew how much he would like it. And my leaving it as a surprise for him was a bit of mystery on my part...instead of telling him way ahead of time about my plans, like I usually do.)

I flipped. Totally and completely. Started yelling. I wanted to retreat to the bedroom--I could tell that I was out of control, and that I was going to say something I didn't mean. He pleaded with me to stay. I had to bite my tongue to keep from saying some of the really harsh stuff I wanted to say.

He got really upset, asked if I wanted him to leave. (Have I mentioned he can't handle arguments? It seems to panic him.) So I forced myself to sit down, and put my arms around him. Not what I want to do when I'm mad.

Then I crumbled. Started crying uncontrollably. I just climbed on him then, and made him hold me. Then I just started blabbering all kinds of stuff. How I felt like I was being used while he was living with her...how I just felt dumb, like they really were having a relationship...how I hated that he let her disrespect me so completely...that I couldn't believe that he let people (both xrm and xow) talk him away from...how horrible it was that he just packed all my things and had them waiting at the door for me... I just went on and on. Lots of stuff that I didn't even really think or feel anymore, but that I had felt right after the seperation. It just sort of all fell out of me. Guess I needed to say it.

I even confessed some of the details of one of my snooping incidents. How, when we were still living together pre-bomb, I had checked his vmail. I heard a message from xrm, and it just so thoroughly infuriated me bcause she had this tone in her voice like she was talking to her bf. There was just this intimacy in the way she was talking to him that made me crazy, and that was why I had reacted so badly to a lot of things earlier. (Before I learned some self control.) And that was why I had hated her so much.

It really exhausted me. I guess I must have needed to get it out, because I'm feeling better today. Although I want to do something nice for H now.

Afterwards, he said he had thought we were doing okay. (A couple of days ago, he had told MF that we were doing great.

) I said we were...I just sometimes still get upset.

Ah, well.

I think I'm going to have to introduce H to the idea of scripting responses. Make sure he has some preconceived idea of how to handle talking to her if he happens to answer to her again. Like "So you've got the money you owe me?" or "My wife and I were planning the nursery today...we thought about painting it purple, but the wall paper trim with the zoo animals was too cute..." or "Stop calling!!" (Okay, so I'm partial to the last one!! LOL

)

Myrrh, forgot to add something else...

I find I get grumpier when I haven't taken care of "me" lately. Like getting out to see my friends or something special just for myself. Is the same true for you??

H also told me last night that now I'm what he'd really been wanting all along. That he liked the new changes/attitude. (Ie, the tattoo...that I will drink with him now...that I go out to bars and go dancing...hell, that I'm more outgoing.) I realize he meant it as a compliment, but it hurt my feelings. For one, I didn't do it all for him--these are things I did for me. And two...does that mean I wasn't completely what he wanted in the first place??? Yeah, I know, doesn't matter.

It still stung.

Nev-
Everything you've said has really been a help while I was going through such a yucky time - let me think about your most recent post, and I will reply at length.
Hugs!
Myrrh

Well, had my next step at the doctor's. Not the most comfortable thing I have gone through. H was very sweet and got up early (for him) to go with me.

All of his nervousness made me feel much calmer.

The doctor did see something, inside of the cervix. Not sure what it is, so he took a biopsy. He said that we should know within a week.

I'm a little weird, H seemed fine. We had a nice lunch together, and then I had to head back to work.

Things are going pretty well between us. He's been extra anxious and clingy. Doesn't go out nearly as much anymore--he told me last night that he just didn't enjoy it like he did a few months ago. I guess that adds some credibility to my theory that all of the running around and party is really just overcompensation.

I'm not feeling so needy anymore all of the time. Actually, I could use a good night out with my friends.

I still have days where I feel less okay. Had it a bit yesterday. But they're not so bad. I just tell H that I'm feeling insecure, and he gives me a big hug. I told him that it gets better over time. He asked if he would feel better, too, and I said of course he would. Sometimes I forget he was really hurt in all of this, too, and it's good to hear.

We're talking about taking a cooking class together. Neither of us knows how to make a lot of stuff. It's not that I can't cook, I just don't think of things. He really liked the idea, said he wanted to go with me. It should be fun.

Psycho--the exroommate of his--still calls. It was quiet for two weeks, and then all of the sudden there three calls. She seems to think she has some claim on these pictures of his, which just makes him mad. I keep asking if he'll let me answer the phone.

He said he might if she keeps calling.

He asked if I would be rude, and I said no, I would just say that he was unavailable. The time I answered at MIL's and it was her, she was really rattled.

(Well...what did she expect?? They're my family, too!)

I'm a bit uncomfortable from the doctor visit.

I feel kind of...well..crampy and periody. I think a lot of it's in my head.

Ah, well. All necessary.

Hey Nevanna!

I've been thinking about you and hoping you'd report your latest stuff...

I'll keep my fingers crossed that the stuff he saw is only dysplasia. They actually mitigate those weird spots by doing biopsies until the smears come back clean. I'm pulling for you!

Uh, it's not your imagination. If my memory serves me well, the crampy period feeling took a few days? I remember it getting better over time, though. And what I distinctly remember is my OB/GYN telling me not to do much of anything. (That's my specialty! I love getting an Rx of taking it easy!

)

Glad to see you've got your eye on a togetherness project.

Looking forward to hearing all the great stuff you guys concoct together.

Big hugs (but not enough to make you cramp more).

Betsey

I'm still around...mostly lurking, reading up on a few people.

Not as much time to post anymore--which is good, means I've been busy at work.

I'm feeling kind of blah from the appointment. I'll be all right. I took some advil, and that helped. Looking forward to going home, though.

Just waiting for the test results, now. A little worried, but not terribly. Things will be okay.

Yeah, when I mentioned I was thinking of cooking lessons, H jumped at it.

Said he wanted to come, too. Should be fun. H is so interested when I tell him all of the R stuff I have learned--he really seems fascinated by it all. He goes around explaining the 5LL to people now!

(We're going to pick up the book sometime.)

I think QT must be important to him, because he's always coming up with ways for us to spend time together. He even told me he misses being able to run errands with me at 3am! (When I was unemployed a few months back.)

Thanks for stopping in.

I'll let you know when I hear back from the doctor.

Nev-
I'm glad everything went well with the doctor - I know exactly the feeling you're talking about. Remember to give yourself some extra TLC!

Things in my corner are going well, except for some hormonal weirdness from a new form of BC. This is my H's final weekend with his shop, he is both sad and relieved to be finished with it. We have a really busy week this week, with two birthdays and moving everything from the shop to our house.

Here's a gentle hug and well wishes,
Myrrh

Myrrh, thanks for stopping in.

Right now I'm day-dreaming about curling up on the couch in pajamas with a cup of hot tea.

I can't wait to get out of work...

I know how the BC can be. I recently switched to the patch--which I love!--but it's always a transition. Every time I start a new form of BC, my boobs grow. And not just a little bit. (H didn't complain...

) It usually takes me 3-4 months to feel settled again.

Thanks for the hugs, girls, they help.

Nevanna-
What a relief! I am glad to hear that BC changes are not always easy for everyone.

I'm thinking of starting a new thread - the old one just doesn't feel right, but I'll link to it if I do.

And I second the daydreams of pajamas and a cup of tea!
Hugs,
Myrrh

The nurse called today about the results from the colposcopy. Nothing scary, I just need to go in for the freezing treatment. It's what I was expecting, since with the pap they had run a test for cancer and it came back negative. After the last time, I'm going to see about taking the afternoon off.

I called H, even though it is really early, since I thought he would want to know. (He's been really worried.) He was very sleepy, but glad to hear it.

Interesting weekend. I was feeling a little funny again, and I really think it was hormonal. I hate to put it off to that, but I definately have days when I get emotional even without all the nonsense between H and I. (Like this morning on my way to work!)

Friday I had to do some stuff for work around midnight, H was going into work at around 10pm, and I was tired, so I just stayed in. Saturday I was irritated with my computer, so I decided to work on it. (I bought this 80 gig CD-installation Maxtor for my second HDD, and after reinstalling Windows, it refuses to let me at the data on it. Keeps claiming it needs reformatted. Been driving me crazy! I have my final tattoo design on there, and I want it so I can go get it put on...) Got tired of messing with it, and put the new curtain rod in the bedroom. When I moved, the one I had before was too short, and it gets pretty bright in there by midday. I wanted to get it up so that H would sleep better.

(And it did make a big difference...the room even looks nicer.)

So while I'm putting this curtain up, it's about midnight, I've got one foot on the bed and the other on the window sill (it's pretty low), and I hear this loud THUMP followed by a "I KNEW THERE WAS A F******* REASON YOU WEREN'T ANSWERING THE PHONE!" from outside. Okay, I had the window closed and I still heard that. I'm not nosy, but it got me a little concerned. I turned out the lights, opened the window, and cracked the shades. Didn't hear a lot of what was going on, but he and my female neighbor were walking around outside. I'm certain who he was talking to because he said her name, and I had heard that she was seperated.

The guy did calm down, and I could tell they were talking. I heard him at one point say "You're just going to walk away mad?" He did eventually leave. I didn't want to interfere, but that outburst had me a little worried at first, so I just wanted to make sure that she was okay. I never felt like she needed help, so I just stayed out if it...but I wanted to make sure I kept an eye on her, just in case.

The whole thing had me feeling uneasy about H and I. I was happy to see him when he got home. He told me he wanted to take me out to breakfast.

It had been awhile since we'd done that... I had even made sure to mention to him earlier on Saturday that I missed him going out to eat with him, even if I was a little grumpy at first when he woke me up. (I decided that was a better approach than griping "why don't you take me out to breakfast anymore?"

)

He also took me to Wal-mart to show me the cashier who had been hitting on him--she actually asked him out the last time he was in there. (We need to buy razor blades anyway.) I was wearing fleece sweatpants and an oversized hoodie.

She was short and fat and unattractive like he said, but she wasn't a mutant or anything like I had thought. But her reaction was hilarious. She basically walked away as soon as he came up, and pretended she didn't even know him...the woman actually came across as jealous! LOL! Um...yeah... He tried to say hi and be friendly, but she just walked off. How weird is that?? What does these people expect??? I'm sorry, she's talked to my H maybe a half-dozen times... Whatever.

He told me he gets that kind of reaction from women all of the time, and he doesn't understand why. I told him even his "hello" came across as really flirty. (It really does!) He said he wasn't trying to...he didn't understand why people take it that way, but he was sick of it. Said there's several women at both clubs he works at that get that way, then get all huffy when he talks to some other woman. I actually think there's more than a few, having been into one of the clubs numerous times...but whatever. I know it's just how he talks to people, and how he pays attention, and then they think he's interested. I can actually see it happen at times. He doesn't realize how flirty he really is coming across.

Sunday we spent the day together. We played tennis. Which was pretty comical, since I had never played...and I'm not exactly the most natural athlete. Yes I look like I work out. But it's not easy!

He was trying to be helpful...I was all over the court...kept popping it or knocking it out of the tennis court. (Yes, I was hitting it that high!) H was trying to correct me--don't hold the racket this way, don't do that. The whole thing made me tense. Not when he would tell me something, but when he would repeat it. I told him repetition doesn't help...I understood what he was saying...it just takes me some time to get my arm to behave the way I want. He said he felt like if he kept repeating it, it might work.

Sheesh. It just made me feel bad.

I stuck it out. I know he was having fun. And I know the weight-lifting got me feeling tense at first, too. I think it will be more fun once I've played a little. And I know it was a big deal to him, which is almost just as important as my having fun. He's been doing all kinds of things for me to have fun--renting movies, taking me to breakfast--it's only fair we spend some time the way he wants to.

He's also brought up the idea of his quitting bartending several times recently. Keeps asking if I want him to quit. Well...I'd love for him to get another job...but I'm not going to tell him what to do. He finally said that he wanted to quit because he thought all of the smoke was impairing his ability to exercise. And he asked if I would be mad if he quit working at one of the clubs (he's only there Saturday night). I told him if he wanted to, that was fine with me, and that it would be nice so that we could go out together again.

So, we'll see.

H also mentioned he was spending less time talking to a particular female coworker, and that she had felt blown off by him. I asked him why he was talking to her less, and he said he didnn't want to make me feel uncomfortable. (!!!!) This was a big 180 for him--he's always maintained he was going to talk to whomever he wanted, that he didn't have to answer to me if it was just conversation. FCW had started bothering me because he always talked about her--not her and all of the other waitresses. About how she looked cute that night in a particular outfit, or how he liked her hair, or how her new haircut looked good. At first I thought his fascination was because she looks so distinctively Indian. (She's Aztec.) Then he told me he was attracted to her. I never asked him to not talk to her or anything, and he had always made a point to not hang out with her outside of work. But he really had me stunned with this one. It really made me feel sooo much better about us.

I stayed up a little late to watch Psycho with him. (Haha...seems kind of appropriate now...) I'd never seen the original Hitchcock, so that was fun. I remember after he put me in bed, him rubbing on my stomach and talking about babies.

I can't wait! I've always wanted to have kids...and I'm so thrilled that he wants to, too, now.

Actually, speaking of crazies, xrm called three times last week. The last message she left sounded like nothing was wrong...like he had never told her to stop calling. Before that, she claimed she was "dead inside" for him because I was pregnant. I almost answered it that last time she called--I asked him, and he wavered, but then it stopped ringing. Darn!

I have it all planned out....what I would say...to get the most effect...

I would be very nice, very polite, just say he's not available. I've even thought of some different things to say if she said anything nuts. But I doubt it. After I answered the phone at MIL's, she never called there again. I think it scared her.

H also suggested maybe he should call and harass her over the money she owes him. I thought that was pretty funny.

Hope everyone is having a good Monday.

I'm not sure if I read it here on the board, or if it was in DB or DR, but there was a particular success story that always seemed to float around in my head. This woman had been married for a number of years--25? 30?--and her husband had pretty much cheated on her the entire time. Multiple affairs. In the end, DB did work for her, and she got her husband to end their seperation and remain faithful. But what really stuck in my head was her comment...something to the effect that she had gotten both the man she always wanted and the woman she always wanted--her new self.

It didn't make much sense at the time, but now it does.

An older married woman that both H and I know gave me a piece of advice once. She had always wanted us to date, and I think was just about as excited as us that we were going to get married.

She told me to make sure and just enjoy being married for a few years before we have kids--to wait at least five years or so. That way, we would have a good foundation first. At the time it didn't make much sense to me. Now, I'm glad we didn't start off having kids right away. I'm hoping we'll have a lot of our major issues worked out before we have any babies.

I understand my H now in a way I never did before. I noticed a couple of times yesterday--we sort of started to argue on a couple of occasions--that a lot of times when we butt heads, it's more because we're misundestanding each other than anything else. On one occasion, he was trying to apologize, and I thought he was still trying to grind in his point.

We recover faster now from these little squabbles. I read that the real measure of the solidity of a relationship is not how often a couple fights, but how well they recover. If that's the case, then we're doing much better than we have in a long time.

There are still things that hurt us both. There was an incident, from our first sep, when my H showed up at a former job I had. I didn't know about DB. I refused to go out and talk to him. My supervisor interpreted H's actions as being...well...border-line stalker. (He had been calling my cell every 20 minutes all day long, and I refused to answer.) I know why my supervisor thought that. H was acting strangely. Security escorted him out of the building. I don't know what happened--I didn't see it--but he told me they treated him very disrepectfully. That they looked down on him, and he was convinced his race played a factor. (He's Mexican Indian, I'm white...we've run into the racial stereotypes in the past.

)

There's a part of me that completely understands why my coworkers reacted the way they did. H was acting very, very strangely. He was even worrying me a little. (Although that was the only time I ever had reason to think this about him.) And, to be honest, I've seen H become suscious when other people were behaving the way he was. I think my supervisor's actions were entirely justified. But I would never tell H that. And, in the end, I trusted him...or I wouldn't have gone to talk to him the next day.

I know how badly the whole thing hurts him. And when he brings it up, I just listen. I can't understand his side of it, but I know I can listen.

And I'm still hurt by the whole female roommate mess. Maybe it was an A, and he's still hiding it from me. I really don't believe that, but there are days that I doubt him. In the end, it doesn't matter. Whatever happened, I'm still hurt. So, in the end, the details don't matter. He's told me enough that the rational side of me is convinced there's no reason to believe anything beyond an initial--and short term--EA. And I even doubt that much at times. It's just the nagging, jealous, insecure side that wonders. Again, it doesn't matter. He's answered every question I have ever asked him. It's not going to make my feelings any better...only time will. And it does get better.

I also had a somewhat comforting thought. The whole mess with xow had all of the indications of a full-blown affair. In fact, looking back, I'm surprised H "woke up" as quickly as he did. At the time, I ripped him for not seeing through her sooner. Knowing what I do now, I think he caught on amazingly quick. Yes, unfortunately, it did reach the point of a PA. But it could have easily grown into a full-blown, months-long affair. It didn't. And I have to give H a lot of credit for that.

There are still up and down days. More up than down, and the down aren't nearly as bad now. I actually understand the ILBNILY line now....I've actually had my moments. It's a part of the healing cycle, I've noticed. I get angry, then I get depressed, then I get that numb ILBNILY feeling. It's been part of the healing process. But I realize that that feeling, along with the others, will pass. I realize you need to do loving activities to feel loving towards your spouse. So of course I don't feel all lovey dovey when we're, say, doing chores or paying bills.

Realizing my feelings are transient helps me realize that H's are, as well. He was grumpy yesterday, very snappy. I could have griped back at him. I realized this is a habit I picked up because it worked with my dad. But it doesn't with H. Instead, later last night, I asked him if something was bothering him, because he seemed kind of distant and grumpy. He paused, looked thoughtful, and said he didn't know, but he did feel kind of grumpy. After that he was very attentive and sweet the rest of the evening.

I'm beginning to feel like I'm rediscovering some lost, best friend again. It's a wonderful feeling. We were grocery shopping last night, having fun picking stuff out of the organic aisle. (My new favorite kind of food!) It seems like I had forgotten for awhile how much we had in common...it's a nice feelng to be able to rediscover that about us again.

And he's very loving. Maybe not in the way I always expected. The things that seem natural and automatic to me aren't to him. But it's in all of the little things. Getting me a glass of water when I'm tired. Putting me to bed when I fall asleep on the couch next to him. While I would love it if he'd volunteer to walk the dog more often, he instead got up in the middle of his night to lay on the couch and distract his cat, who was driving me crazy wanting in and out of the bedroom, mewing and clawing at the door. So I could sleep peacefully for another hour before work.

Interestingly, after all of this, I am a much more centered, settled, and peaceful peson. Not what I would have expected to come out of my husband leaving me twice! It takes an intense fire to forge a master sword.

I could really relate to so much of what you wrote in your post, Nevanna.

Thanks for putting it out there.

Sage

Nev-
I second Sage's thanks. The cycle is really tough to deal with - the resentment monster has really been raring its ugly head in the past few days, so H and I have really had some tough spots. I hope as time goes by this process gets easier. Because honestly? It is still very, very hard. Sometimes the anger and pain get huge again, and I don't always roll with it the way I'd like to. Our MC closed our wrap-up session by mentioning that she used to think the way to a successful M after infidelity was to put the past completely behind you, but she now thinks that for H and I to both be patient with the process is a much better goal.

I am trying really hard to be patient with my own process.
Lotsa hugs to all,
Myrrh

Yuck, I have my appointment today to get the abnormal growth frozen off. Not looking forward to it.

I have tons of stuff to update on...psycho xrm still calls...but I haven't had time to go into that kind of detail lately. Hopefully tonight.

Wish me luck at the doctors!

So the doctor's appointment wasn't nearly as bad this time.

I drug H out of bed to go with me. I was really anxious about this one after how bad the last appointment made me feel. I made sure to take the 4 Advil an hour ahead of time as advised. The procedure itself was a little uncomfortable, some cramping afterward, but nothing like before.

Although the machine broke down just before he finished. I had already had to wait a few weeks for the thing to get fixed before I went in yesterday... Ah, well. It should have gotten rid of the growth, but we'll see. I go back for a pap in three months, and then we'll go from there.

So...the last few weeks have been interesting.

Not too long after my last post (where I was feeling sooo calm and in control and happy!) I had a bit of a meltdown. I'm pretty sure it was triggered by the fact that is the one-year anniversary of bomb #1. It was the shorter of our two seps--three weeks, really--but was the worst. That's when the twisted EA thing with xow was going on...that's when the PA happened...

Anyway, I had a lot of anxiety. Tons of it, in fact. I had not handled that situation well, at all. This was months before I stumble on DB. I think I may have come close to a nervous breakdown at one point. I know I was in severe denial a lot of the time.

It wasn't so much what had happened that struck me...but how I felt at the time. Remember all those feelings... It wasn't nearly as intense as when I experienced it--at the time I felt like I was drowning--but still very haunting for me.

Then I sort of shut down for a few weeks. I think I was shell-shocked from the memories. I don't know. I just walled up, and shut H out. I could feel that I was doing it, but I just didn't know how to bring that wall down. I wanted to be able to let him in...but I just couldn't. I went through this intense period of feeling the ILYBNILY crap. And the worst part was...I wanted to feel in love with him!

So I went through, what I'm guessing, most WAS do, mentally. I knew I wasn't going to leave. But I felt trapped. Like I was staying out of obligation. I didn't want to leave because I felt like I had made a commitment...I didn't want to hurt H, and I certainly didn't want to go through that nonsense again myself. (I was afraid of us getting into some stupid, circular pattern, where we take turns running away from the problems!)

I felt like I was going through the motions. H was being very sweet and caring, but it didn't seem to have an impact on me. I felt like I was watching myself do things, without any real feeling behind them. I wondered why I would stick it out with a guy who had disrespected me. How I could have misjudged him so thoroughly. I never, ever thought my H could hurt me like that. And I thought I deserved an M where my H had been, and always would be, faithful to me.

I really wanted to share all of this with him, but I just couldn't. That damned wall was there, and I didn't know why. Just seemed to be getting thicker and nastier. I felt so numb. And all I could think about was how I wanted my H and our M back the way I remembered it could be. But my mind just seemed stuck in this stupid loop of all of the hurt he had caused me...

Then I began to notice a few things about myself. Actions speak louder than words, right? Well, I noticed that I still missed him when he was away. That I still reached out to hold his hand, or touch his shoulder. This whole time I was feeling locked inside myself, I was still acting like I was in love with him. Was I doing it out of habit? I didn't think so...that didn't make sense to me.

Not too long after that, I realized that stupid wall was up because I was afraid of feeling the hurt. I was afraid of the pain. My feeling numb was just protection from the all of that pent up fear and pain. I wonder if that's what the WAS are feeling? Numb because they're hurt--deep, deep, down, and can't deal with it. I was subconsciously keeping my H away because I was terrified of him leaving again. I just didn't want to hurt anymore.

I could feel myself soften after I figured that out. I was able to let H in a little closer again. Poor guy new there was something weird with me, he just didn't say anything. (I wish he would have!)

Then I decided I was being too hard on myself. The more I focussed on feeling distant from my H, the worse it got. So I decided to ignore it.

When I started to relax some, things got easier. I started feeling better about the relationship.

And then I started crying.

For days.

It was uncontrollable, side-aching, deep-down-pain, crying. I lost it at all kinds of weird times. Sometimes I couldn't even figure out what had started it. H blamed PMS, but it wasn't timed right. Those buried feelings had finally gotten out, and there was no stopping it!

I stopped crying just a couple of days, and man, do I feel better.

It kind of dawned on me that I wasn't angry anymore. At all. I hadn't b!tched about xrm, really, in weeks. Although I had stopped blaming H a long time ago, I would still feel irritated or angry at him--just tried to keep it in check so that I wouldn't hurt him. That was gone, too. So, duh, I must have moved on from the anger phase to mourning. Thus all the crying.

I'm strangely not that obsessed with xrm anymore. Oh, she's still crazy, and she calls pretty much every 5 days or so. (H hasn't talked to her in weeks...) She still hasn't done anything that makes us feel it's necessary to go the police. We talked about it, and had a couple of ideas on how to get her stop calling. H's was to start calling her and harassing her over the money she owes him.

I said maybe he should pull what Chandler did with his nutty roommate in Friends--start acting crazy back!!

Whatever. But, other than that, we ignore her, and just go on with life.

I realized, ultimately, I'm still with H because I love him. He's human. We both are. Neither of us have been in many relationships. Although my parents are still married and (appear) to be doing well, his father was a deadbeat loser and his mother has been divorced for years. I guess we're both still figuring out how to be in a longterm relationsip.

And...we really do work well together. Our personalities compliment each other. We sort of balance out. And, on top of that, we have fun together. I couldn't imagine anyone else. (He actually commented last night, while we were watching Friends--his favorite show, believe it or not--that we were like Monica and Chandler..."perfect for each other."

)

So I'm now feeling much better. I gave serious thought to leaving him for a few weeks. I guess I needed to allow myself to explore that option in order to understand why I was staying. I never made a move to do it. I didn't tell him...because, well, I knew I wasn't really going to. If that makes any sense at all!

I think my distance has made him sensitive for awhile. I was the one who had the nasty appointment at the doctor's yesterday, but he's needed attention for several days now. I think that's how he asks for reassurance. He broke down, too, a few nights back...how he felt horrible for all the things that had happened and couldn't believe he had done it. And he's needed extra attention ever since.

I've also found I don't jump to conclusions about his motives nearly as much now. Which has made me a much happier person.

I used to always assume that he didn't like something I did or was mad at me...my insecurities definately skewed my perceptions. Now I just ask him--without being accusatory

--and it's not such a big deal.

I'm also amazed at how he changed while we were apart, too. For the better! I still see it, even now, all the little things that he's made an effort to change for me.

I'm just now really, truly beginning to believe he's not going to take off on me again. And that is such a huge relief. Not that he was doing anything to make me think that...in fact, he's been wonderful...but I guess after he came back once only to take off on me a second time...well, that can make a person a little gunshy.

Hope everyone is having a good weekend.

Okay, I need some help.

I'm depressed. I admit it. Usually my mood swings are tied to what I eat, and I can even them out fairly quickly. Exercise and eating right keep me in check. But I can't seem to stop crying.

I keep having all these crazy thoughts, and I don't know how to handle them. And I can't seem to stop crying once I'm at home.

I'm somehow convinced that all men cheat. That it always happen, sooner or later. So I might as well stay with H because I do love him and I know he loves me. And he's so good to me. But deep down, I'm afraid that it really wouldn't matter, because even if I did leave him and start dating someone new, the same thing would just happen again. I know that can't really be true, but that's what my mind keeps telling me.

The worst part is, I wasn't even this upset when I was living by myself and H was still acting all rude and was shacked up with crazy lady! It's like all those nights I managed to keep myself under control have caught up with me again.

I'm doing eveything I can think of that always made me feel better before. I realize I've been cooped up at home too much lately, because of all of the medical stuff. So I've made lots of plans with my closest friends the next couple of weekends. And H is, more than likely, going to quit his Saturday job soon, so we can go out and do things together. I'm eating right. I'm exercising. I even went out and pampered myself a little--bought new running shoes and new clothes--with my new salary.

But I still feel like I've been run over by a steam roller.

And the kicker is...H is being great. More than great! He's bought me stuff. He brought home flowers just last weekend. He's spending time with me, cuddling with me on the couch, and trying to think of things we can do together. Every time he hears me even start to sniffle, he comes over to see what's wrong. (Which in itself is a small miracle! He used to ignore me!) I got a little weird about something on his phone, and he spent ten minutes trying to reassure me. OMG, I couldn't ask for more!

It's like my crazymaker just got out of the looney bin or something.

My mind hasn't been this stuck on our situation in months!

Is it because I'm no longer preoccupied with the psycho xrm? I don't feel directly threatened, so now I can crumble? Is it because H is being so incredibly nice and considerate? (And is that why, then, when us LBS are nice to the walk-aways, they eventually crumble??)

I'm so confused. And so hurt.

(It may sound childish, but I liked being angry better...)

I feel like my fair-tale got crushed. Maybe it was cheesy, but I really thought I had found the guy who was supposed to be my version of "prince charming." (Nevermind I always thought "prince charming" was boring.

) I honestly thought we were different...that we were somehow special. That nothing like this would ever happen to us. And, looking back, I can't believe we wound up this way. The guy I thought my H was would never have behaved this way.

And then I notice how all our troubles started as soon as he found out his brothers had been shipped off to war. We were jerked around for four months--they're leaving, they're staying, they're leaving tomorrow...they can go home...ACK! And when his brothers finally did leave, it was incredibly abrupt. One day they were supposed to go home (they're n'tl guard), and H went on vacation to visit family in Mexico. Then BIL2 calls me and tells me that BIL1 has already left and he's headed out the next day. I remember I couldn't hold it in anymore, and I blurted it out on the phone to H the next time he called.

When he came back he wasn't the same.

I remember I was soooo excited to see him. He was gone 10 days--the longest we had ever been apart--and I could't wait until he got off the plane. When he did, he just sort of brushed past me, and asked if he could drive. No big hug, like I had expected. No kiss. No ILY or I missed you.

Just "Let's go home." It was honestly the first time I had ever felt rejected by him, and it hurt so bad. This was the guy who, when I had gotten back from vacation with my mom just a month earlier, litteraly attacked me once I walked in the door.

I swear, all our problems--our serious problems--started after they left. Not that I wasn't doing stuff wrong in the M. It just seemed like the little things had never mattered to either of us before.

I remember thinking, right after bomb #1, that all I had to do was sit tight until hid brothers were supposed to come home.

And you know what? We reconciled within weeks of their coming home. I mean, WTF? Was it really that he couldn't handle the stress of their being gone? (He certainly didn't take it well!) And if that's the case...what does it mean about our M if something else bad happens??

Intellectually, I know it was a mistake for him. And I know he beats himself up about it, probably more than me. I just feel so hurt. I really believed it was going to be okay the first time we reconciled. But then I got knocked down again... And now, in the back of my mind, I'm always wondering if it's going to happen again. In a year? Two? Five? Ten? What if he goes through MLC? Am I really willing to go through all of this again for him??

There's a weird part of me that would just like to be alone. All alone, and peace and quiet. Not let anyone else in again so I won't get hurt. Childish, I know. Maybe I still have issues dealing from my childhood. I was the high school geek and all that...few friends, always picked last, always made fun of. Yeah, I'm over a lot of it...but a big part of LL is WOA. And all those nasty things said to me all those years...well, some of them got deeper than I like to admit. H was the first person outside of my family I really, truly let in. I trusted him. He was the one person, in my entire life, I finally felt comfortable enough with to be able to talk to him about how I felt. I always kept it bottled away from other people. (Something I've been working very hard at rectifying the last few months!) And then...he hurt me more than anyone else ever could have. It was like, on some level, I was finally proven right--can't let anyone in, because they'll just make fun of me or wind up not liking me, or leave me.

I know that's not true...but it's how I always felt.

And then there's this weird part of me that doesn't believe in love anymore. I see my good friend and her BF, and a part of me wants to tell her that it will only break down at some point, that it will all fall apart. So why get married? Ugh, I know that's not true, either, but it just keeps popping up in my head.

And I managed to gain a little weight. When I was living apart from H, I doubled my time at the gym--added in a huge amount of cardio. Lost some weight, and felt really good about how I looked for the first time in my life. Since I moved, I somehow spend less time there. (A schedule change at work also contributed to that.) And I gained the weight back...plus a little more. The worst part is that I really am a small person. My clothing size is fairly small. But all my clothes suddenly don't fit, and I'm feeling fat. Stupid, I know, but I do. (Probably because my clothes don't fit!)

Phew...that's a lot of stuff I've had on my mind, some of it for a long time... Maybe getting it out in writing will help. I'm afraid a lot of this may be just mindless ranting on my part...but hopefully writing it down will help get it all out of my system.

I don't have any advice but I am going through this myself. I read your post and said OMG that is exactly what is going through my head the past few days.

I am assuming this is a normal part of the grief process. If not, I'll see you in the looney bin

Nev-
First, here's a big hug for you! You have no idea how many times I've wished we lived closer so we could go out and have coffee or something when things got tough.

You are so good at encouraging yourself through your down times, and I know how very hard that can be! The sad, angry, hurt, and betrayed feelings don't go away quickly, I guess. I try to accept how I feel, to nurture myself through the sadness, anger, or whatever, and to directly express how I feel to my H, without blame or recriminations. In fact, what a ghreat 3-step plan that is for emotional crises! Just for my own benefit, I am going to break it out into that:
1) Identify and accept my emotions of the moment.
2) Nurture myself physically, emotionally, and spiritually.
3) Express feelings directly, without accusation or blaming, to my H.

I think Step 3 can be optional, but a lot of times it allows my H to nurture me as well, and gives him the chance to be a part of my healing. That seems to be good for both of us. I also think part of step one is fighting against irrational thoughts and fears...something like "It's okay to feel this way, but it doesn't mean that what you're afraid of will happen. This fear will pass, and you WILL be okay." I actually have to say stuff like this to myself mentally, because my brain tends to run away with me.

It seems like these negative spurts happen occasionally for me, and I am more susceptible to them when I am tired, stressed, or hormonal. They're also more intense when I am feeling sad or scared about something else (my health, my relationship with my parents, etc), so I try to rule out something else bothering me as a cause or contributor to my snit.

My H is okay with my feelings, as long as he doesn't feel blamed or attacked with them. He is doing great, and he is so loving! He brought me a cup of hot tea this morning in bed, and was really understanding of me not wanting to be, erm, "friendly" because I was so tired and worn out. I really try to pay attention these days to the balance of our relationship - to make sure that I am both supporting and allowing myself to be supportive at different times. Hmm, I think I need to do something nice for him tonight - fix myself up, nice dinner, maybe a backrub later? He has had a rough week...anyway, I am rambling.

I hope none of what I said comes off as preachy or anything like that. I always hope that in sharing stuff that I am experiencing, you'll find something to take away for yourself.
You're doing great, Nevanna!
Hugs,
Myrrh

Just goes to show what a difference 24 hours makes.

So, last night, I'm curled up on the couch. H went to open the club. I'm watching Superman (Christopher Reeve), which I haven't seen in years.

And then, it dawned on me!

I felt exactly the same way about H that I used to...but hadn't felt in over a year.

Wasn't thinking about our mess at all. He wasn't even home, and I felt all safe and secure about us.

I had begun to wonder if I would ever feel like he was that person again. Wow. It really took me by surprise...and made me feel so much better. I guess my biggest fear has been that I never thought I could ever feel the same way about him or us again...and even if was short-lived last night, it just goes to show me that it's possible.

H also told me last night that he wished we could spend more time together. I'm wondering how that's even possible, but that's not exactly a bad thing.

He then told me that QT must be a bigger component of his LL than he had previously thought.

That did kind of hurt. Not as stinging as some of the other revelations have been...but it did ache to hear him say that. I thought of how he had literally ditched me for xow, before bomb #1. How I had finally gotten mad at him one night, and told him it was ridiculous that he spend more time wit his "best friend" than he did with me... And, how, just before bomb #2 he was ditching me again for all of his newfound "friends." (People, BTW, that he doesn't even talk to now!)

I had always thought that QT was not that big of a deal to him. But, after he said that, it does make sense. Lately, he keeps asking me to go on errands with him or to go with him or stay up with him...

And, right when xow came along, our schedules were so incredibly bad, we really weren't spending much time together.

He started working second shift at this bar, and I was working overtime and my job so we could try to catch up on bills. Looking back, that makes me feel so guilty...but we just couldn't hardly afford just our living costs. All I was trying to do was make sure we could eat.

(And, to be fair, H is going way out of his way to make sure he's not ditching me anymore.)

Although, H seems to be kind of tiring of bartending. (!!!

) It was always supposed to be just a temporary thing, anyway...just until I got a job and he could go to school. But then he was sooo into it--all that stupid bartending with that stupid flair. Lately, though, he's been less interested in doing the flair shoes, and has even been getting annoyed with and complaining about a guy he works with who doesn't shut up about bartending. (He actually complained that all this guy talked about was bartending and flair! Which is what H used to do...

)

Not that I hate the bartending...just got kind of sick of how he wouldn't ever shut up about it.

I'm glad to see he's getting back to the way he used to be around me. I missed that. And that's the guy I really wanted, anyway.

It's nice to know that side of him really was still under there, somewhere.

I am glad you are feeling better. I can understand how your H feels about bartending. I did it for 6 1/2 years and then bartended and waited tables for another 3 or 4 years a couple of years ago while in community college full time.

It is fun at first, then after a while, it gets really old. Especially when you are tired and want to go home and you have to deal with people who have been drinking and some are incredibly stupid after a few drinks. It makes you watch what you are doing when you are out having a few.

It is so nice to hear from someone who has won the DB war!

luv--I don't know if I've won the "war"...but most of the battles are with myself now instead of between myself and H.

But thanks for dropping by.

Although I still feel up and down and all over the place...we have evened out a lot, and have gotten--I hope--much more stable.

So, after my little crash and burn...I'm feeling pretty good.

But H isn't. He has apologized several times the last couple of days, and at pretty random times. (Driving home from the gym, watching non-A-related TV...heck, he even woke me up last night to tell me.

)

It feels good to know he realizes he made a mistake. That reassures me that it was a mistake. We are all human. (I can't say I didn't contemplate it myself one night, feeling all alone and unwanted...so I can understand what may have motivated him.) And it helps to know that if he feels bad, then I seriously doubt he would do this sort of nonsense again.

But I wish I could help him feel better. I know I can't make it go away--only time does that--but I wish I knew how to help comfort him. I know that's what I want when I go to him upset. My standard answer to "I'm sorry" has been "I know." I've tried ILY and telling him I forgive him. Maybe I just need to let him be upset.

H did say the sweetest thing last night, and I wanted to make sure that I remember it... It was when he came in and woke me up to tell me he was sorry. (He had gone out for a little while, must have been just after he came home.) I remember him laying on top of me on top of the covers, and telling me that he was upset and how sorry he was, and that he couldn't believe he had acted like that. And I told him it was okay. I remember him saying he was sorry, that he had "issues." (Childhood traumas.) I told him it was okay, and that I was here for him. He said he hadn't realized that before, but he knew that now. I thought it was the sweetest thing I had ever heard...

Hi Nevanna - I feel so encouraged reading posts like yours, that given time, patience and good dbing, things CAN be better. Thanks for continuing to share. Slowly

Slowly--glad to see it helps you feel better.

I don't write much about my own sitch because...well...it's not that much of a "situation" anymore.

I finally got out of the house, after all this doctor nonsense. Okay, so my friend wound up driving up to see me.

But it was still nice--she's a close friend I haven't seen in a couple of months. It was great to just sit and talk with her. (It looks like she might have to go through the same procedure I did. Poor thing.)

I'm...feeling incredibly normal. After all my fits and crying and doubts...I suddenly feel very, very okay.

I realize I'm probably still going to have down days, but that's okay, too. I just finally feel as if this is over with.

Some things I noticed that helped me...

I quit accepting H's view that I should wake up and be "okay" now that we are back together. In fact, I decided I didn't need his "permission" to be upset. I was just going to be upset until I felt better. Sounds silly, but somehow my letting him hurry me to get over everything just made me feel worse--kind of like I felt bad because I still felt bad.

I also decided it didn't matter if he kicked and whined about doing something I asked him to, or even what his "real reason" for doing it might be. I was just happy when he would do it. For example--my appointment for the cryotherapy. He whined and complained about how he had to drag himself out of bed, how he was tired, how he was hungry... But, he did go, which is the important thing.

I've also learned when to keep my mouth shut. I guess I always thought I was being helpful...but H took it as criticism. So unless it's going to hurt someone, I just shut my trap.

H did really catch me by surprise the other day. He told me that I "reminded" him everyday of "what he had done," and that was why he got upset every night. Sure could have fooled me!! I thought I was just making conversation, I really didn't have anything else behind it. (And since I have a really bad tendency to be passive agressive, I try to watch it.) And, after all, I would bite my tongue against the really bad comments.

I just...tried to be even more careful. Maybe his guilt is making him hypersensitive. Maybe low self-esteem? I don't know. He did tell me he thought I was doing it to make him feel bad--to get revenge. I think I just sat there with my mouth wide open. The only thing I managed to finally say was that if I had wanted revenge or to hurt him, I would have gone about it a whole different way. After that...I guess I just tried to be more careful.

Anyway, hope everyone is having a nice Sunday.

So...the crazy lady called last night.

H and I were walking out the door when his phone rang. We both groaned at the ringtone--xrm!! LOL He picked it up, kind of looked at it. He's ignored her for at least a month now.

He asked if I wanted to answer it. I said "Sure!" and he said to just tell her he wasn't home.

I took the phone, and went into the bedroom. H is standing, maybe, two feet away. I (in my best "act as if") said hello very pleasantly. (No, that's not sarcasm!!

) She asked if she could speak with my H. I was still pleasant, said he was not home. She thanked me, I said sure, and hung up with her.

Pretty anticlimactic. LOL The whole brief interaction was ridiculously pleasant. But, after the time she called MIL's house looking for H and I answered there, she never called that number again.

The movie was fun. (We went to see Shark Tale with BIL2.)

H decided he wanted to go out after we got back from the movie. I went to bed.

I had read something on the boards right before I went to bed that had me kind of upset. Not sure why it hit me so hard. As soon as I fell asleep, I started having the worst dream.

I called H and told him I had a bad dream. He asked me if I wanted him to come home. I told him no, I just needed him to talk to me so that I could wake up a little. He asked me what the dream was. I told him, in the dream, that he had said he was going to leave me again, and that he was going to go live with some girl. He asked if it was anyone specific, and I said no, just someone my mind made up.

H asked if it was because psycho called. (His favorite nickname for xrm.

) I said no, her calls stopped bothering me a few weeks ago. That I knew she wouldn't just stop calling--obviously, she can't seem to get the hint!--and that I assumed they would just taper off. It was something I had read that had upset me, and it really wasn't his fault at all, just that weird time when you're semi-awake, and the dream feels real.

We talked for nearly 30 minutes. A nice, good talk.

I told him that he was still the best friend I had ever had. That I had told him more about myself than anyone else. He told me that he felt the same about me.

I remember telling him that I felt like I hadn't appreciated him enough or listened to his feelings enough. He told me felt the same way. I said it's kind of funny we both felt like that.

H said he just knew we weren't happy, and that he wanted us to be like we used to. I said I knew that. He commented that I had not said anything that day to make him feel bad, and he appreciated it. (Yay for me!) I told him I had never meant to say anything to hurt him, it was inadvertant, and I hadn't realized I was upsetting him until he told me the other day. That I was just saying stuff I thought was normal chit-chat, and hadn't realized he was affected by it.

I told H I've actually been feeling pretty normal. He said he felt like we were back to the way are supposed to be, but that he was still having a hard time. He said it was probably all of the guilt, getting to him. H said he had already beat himself over it, that he had probably punished himself more than I could, which was why he was so sensitive to little things I might say. I told him I loved him.

He actually apologized for xrm--called her by name. This was the first time he had ever directly addressed it. It made me feel much, much better.

H told me he was trying really hard to do everything possible to help me feel better. I told H that I didn't get nearly as uptight or worried now as I did a few months ago. I could tell he thought about it for a second, as if he done the comparison, and said I was right. (:)) I told H I knew he was trying hard, and I appreciate everything he's done to help me feel better. He said it was hard work, but he it was definately worth it. (:D)

I told H I understood how hard it must be for him, what it must feel like. To genuinely make a mistake, and then try really hard to fix it, but nothing ever seems good enough. I told him I had thought of that before, and tried to understand his side of it and how that must feel. Which is why I was trying to keep from overreacting to ever little thing.

At some point after that it just dissolved into sappy mush.

(We're both pretty sappy...that's why we get made fun of constantly by his family.

It's just...well..bad...LOL)

It was actually a good conversation. Sounds heavier once I wrote it down. But we took turns, each talking and then listening. For once neither one of us was arguing about how the other felt. Actually, what I think we both used to do was "HEY!! Listen to ME and how I feel." LOL

Which just made both of us feel unheard and not understood.

I really feel like I have my H back. I can't say that I feel totally fine every minute of the every day, but I feel like the weight is gone. And I feel like he's the same guy I married.

For a long time there was this strange disconnect between H-now and H-when-we-were-dating. That seems to be dissolving.

I think time has been the biggest factor. Although I sometimes thought H wasn't giving the effor that I was, I don't think that's true anymore. And, what has helped me a lot, was to just do lots of fun, new things together. To bury the bad memories with new, good ones. I think that's been the most crucial for me.

I had a good night last night.

I wound up having to pick my mom up after work. She can't drive, and was "stranded" at the hair salon.

(My dad wasn't answering the phone.) I got home quite a bit later than normal. H wasn't home--but I wasn't too surprised, since he had called me earlier and said he was headed to the gym. I called him; he didn't answer. I was a little uptight, since I hadn't seen or even really talked to him all day, but I was okay. So I had a cup of tea and then decided to catch up with him at the gym.

As I was headed there, I began to feel a little panicky. I'm not sure why. I just really needed to see him. It was dark and raining. I have a hard enough time seeing at night, but with the rain, the reflections are really bad with my contacts. Anyway, a couple of ambulances passed me headed the opposite direction.

I don't know why I was worked up, but that made it worse. I had gotten a little uptight because H didn't call me when I got home late. When I got to the gym, I figured I would run into him there. After I went upstairs, I was literally looking at everybody, trying to find H. I didn't see him there. I started to work out, but couldn't even get past stretching. Could literally feel the panic getting to me.

So I went down to the locker room, to see if H had called. He hadn't. I called him. This time, he answered right away. I was kind of blabbering--shaking, actually, and I can remember asking him where he was and why he hadn't answered. He said I had just missed him at the gym. He asked if I was mad, and I said no. And that he was getting ready to go to work early. He asked me to come home so he could see me.

When I got home, I just looked at H and burst into tears. He asked me what was wrong, and I said I didn't know. I was shaking all over and just crying uncontrollably. He gave me a big hug, but I just couldn't quit crying. I blabbered something about it maybe being PMS. He asked if I was mad at him, and I said no. He asked what I thought he was doing. I said nothing, I just was really panicking. H said he thought it was because I hadn't seen him.

Then he said something I hadn't expected. He actually said that he knew why I was upset--that it was okay, it was because of what he had done to me. I couldn't believe he said it. (I wasn't even thinking that, but it does make sense.)

He took his time with me, was patient and understanding. Let me cry, then helped distract me until I felt better.

While I was helping him get ready to leave, he tossed me a little package and asked if I thought it was funny. It was one of those "goody bags" they hand out at bars--the kind with a condom and some "other stuff" inside. (

) He asked what I thought, told me they were handing them out at the door when he went into a bar last weekend. He asked if I would have freaked out when I found it in his pants when I do laundry, and I said I didn't think so. I didn't realize until much, much later that he was making an effort to give me extra information, to make sure that I'm feeling better about us.

H went off to work. I went back to the gym. Then I decided to do something nice for him.

He's been doing so much for me to reassure me, and I appreciate him soooo much for it. I picked up a red rose and a small card, and wanted to put them in his car to find when he got out of work. Unfortunately I couldn't find where the car was parked last night, drove around for 20 minutes until after midnight

, then went home and left them for him on the coffee table.

When I crawled into bed, I called H just to say goodnight. He sounded surprised--but very happy--to hear from me. Actually, he kept talking, even after I was ready to go to sleep.

Said he was having fun, but that he would probably come home soon. (It was an optional work night for him...he went into do some flair.)

I remember a time when I wondered why I had to do all the work. Well...I can honestly say, now, it was definately worth it. H being so wonderful and so incredibly great--he's doing so much to reassure me, even when I realize it's just my own crazymaker on the loose.

It makes me feel so much more secure about us. I am so, so glad I stuck this out. I can honestly say I have him back. He's the guy I dated, he's the guy I married, he's the guy I've missed throughout this whole mess.

I kind of got to wondering how he knew to do all of these things so that I would feel better. I did ask him the other day if he was tempted to ever look here on the boards. I haven't hidden this from him since we reconciled, and I do know that he would know exactly who I was by my username.

I actually asked him the other day if he got tempted to read what I wrote, and he said "sometimes." It is a little weird, knowing he might read this stuff. But I'm okay with it. (It is a public site.

)

Okay, enough speculation.

H is incredible, and that's all I care about. (And honey, if you ever do read this stuff...I love you.

)

I've been kicking this one around for awhile...wasn't sure what I thought about it, since it seems like a weird issue to be having.

My H is great. He is better than great. Not only is every problem I ever had with our R changed--and dramatically!--for the better...I swear H has turned into my dream husband. I mean, sure, there's minor friction...but it's so little...after all, we're human...

Here's the problem.

I feel guilty about it.

He's sweet, attentive. If he thinks I'm the least little bit upset, he wants to make it better. He'll come and hug me or hold me or listen to me, whatever it is I need. He even left me alone when I asked him for that, too.

He cooks for me. He cleans while I'm at work. Calls me during the day just to tell me he misses. H wants me to do things with me--he asked me to play Halo with him earlier. (Which I haaaaate, but I did for him.) He asks me to go to the gym with, wants me to sleep on the couch when I go to bed so that I will be close to him.

H apologizes for hurting me. He actually told me--and has said this several times--that he wants to share everything with me, so that I will trust him. He makes a point of telling me about his phone calls and what he's doing. Because, and I can't believe he said this, he broke my trust and realizes that's his fault.

And I feel guilty about it!!

I feel guilty...because I'm still hurting. Not like I was. Not even close to like I was. But I'm still hurt, and H can see that.

I realize that it takes time to feel better. But he's being so incredible, more than I could have even asked for...I hate the fact that I don't feel okay yet. I hate the fact that my being upset hurts him, and I wish I could just get on with my life and put this behind us once and for all.

There's a part of me that honestly doesn't think I deserve this wonderful treatment from H. Why? I don't know. H was like this all of the time before we fell apart. A part of me feels like I didn't appreciate him enough before.

And then I feel bad, because I remember how I used to whine and complain that I needed more affection/attention/understanding from H. I can remember writing on my threads, and saying how I need more reassurance and affection from him. And now that I have it, I don't know what to do. I feel like I can't show him enough how much I appreciate him.

I've been trying though. Finally did something I had been planning to for a long time. I went out and bought him a rose and a card (and a DVD set of his favorite show) and left them in his car as a surprise Saturday while he was at work. I try to make time to leave him cut texts on the cell.

It sounds so inane. I never thought I would have this problem...and I was even more worried about posting it, since it's so much the opposite of everyone else. But I was hoping maybe I could get some insight.

Oh, Nevanna, I can relate! I still struggle some days - because being totally there with my H, letting down all my walls, just feels so freaking vulnerable, that sometimes they start going back up without me even noticing. Intimacy with someone who has hurt you so badly is scary, scary, scary - so we hold back a little bit, hold onto some of the pain, try to "protect" ourselves - even though this kind of "protection" actually makes it MORE likely we will end up hurt, not less.

It just takes time, honey. Your pain is legitimate - so is the pain and guilt and confusion he feels when he sees your hurt.

Ellie

I would have no idea about all the good in your R because H just thought I should "get over it already, I made a mistake." But I do know that your feeling of security was shattered by H actions and it will take some time to pick up every piece and put it back together.

Just relax as much as you can and enjoy being with H again. The rest will come with time.

Wow, Ellie...your reply to Nevanna really helped me a lot.

Nevanna, thanks for putting your thoughts/fears out there.

Sage

Hugs to luv, kml, and sage for stopping in.

It's amazing to me how often just writing stuff down on here makes me feel better. It's the combination of putting my feelings into words, as well as knowing other people care and will read it.

Feeling better today.

Actually, I feel more good than bad these days...which, in and of itself is a bit of a miracle. I can honestly say that there are times when I feel exactly about H as I did before all of this started. Just want to increase those times...

Sometimes I think H has more patience with me than I do...and I swear, he's doing exactly what I need to feel better. Maybe something just clicked for him. I'm still suspicious he may have looked through my threads...

I know he would know my username immediately. (I mean, I'm so beyond hiding it, I gave the same name to my custom Halo guy the other day.)

The other thing I've noticed, and I have no idea why this is, I can't hardly seem to cry when he's around anymore. Maybe because he shut me down so bad in the past. (I was pretty bad, during the whole moving out process.) As soon as he walks at the door, I'm a flood. Which, interestingly, means that when I'm done, I feel great for a couple of days afterwards. (Yeah, I know, I can see the whole cycle thing in it...last stage is sadness, then acceptance...I'm clearly bouncing back and forth.) And then all I want is to run up and give him a huge hug.

Something else I've noticed, and I don't know if this is a result of my time spent DBing or what. H is actually more comfortable with me than he ever has been. He's let me in much, much more. It's like his walls came down...maybe not all of the way, but a whole lot lower than they ever have been in the past. Time spent validating? That I was only one who stood by him when the past few months? That I was always there for him? I don't know. But it makes me feel better.

Psycho xrm still calls, but whatever. Getting beyond where that means anything to me...the girl is out of her mind, and H and I both know it. As long as she's not doing anything where I feel in physical danger, she's not worth my time. (Although I did answer H's cell when she called a few times...that was really fun...

His idea; he thought it was pretty funny.)

H told me I was being "too sensitive" the other day when I mentioned that part of my problem is I literally feel like I can't escape from the whole cheating/seperation nonsense--that it's on TV and the radio all around us. Not five minutes later, a plot on TV features (drumroll) an older couple who is going through a seperation. I just hopped up and down and told him I was right!! LOL He just laughed at me.

One little thing that does make me nervous... H is going to San Diego this Sunday for four days. (Back Wednesday.) With a couple of coworkers to help this one lady go get her daughter. The FC (female coworker) doesn't speak English, so he's going as an interpreter. The other coworker is male. The thing that really gets me....is that he dated her (for about a week) at one point.

I knew he had dated her while they were working together. (Okay, so he just quit that job, I guess they're not really current coworkers...) But he would never tell me the level of their involvement. I got everything from "I don't kiss and tell" to "I work with her, it's none of your business, it's private" ...

Well, last night I told him I was feeling weird about the brief trip. I told him it wasn't just about FC (it's really not), and told him the other reasons. Then I asked again how involved he was with her in the past. He wavered again, and I pointed out they no longer worked together. And that I had a right to know since they are going together somewhere. He finally agreed, and admitted that they had slept together in the past. (I had already assumed that, from his dodginess about the subject before.)

Then he got very upset, said that I had forced it out of him. I think maybe he expected me to get upset or flip out. Which I didn't. (Wasn't even fighting myself.) He asked me if I wanted him to tell them he couldn't go, and I said no...they had already purchased his ticket. I held him and massaged his shoulders for awhile.

I'm still bothered by the fact that he lied to me about how many sexual partners he's had. I just recently found out the truth.

He says he thought I wouldn't date him if I had known before. I feel I have a right to know because it affects my health. (His argument: he always used protection.) I doubt I would have not dated him...just asked him to get tested. (I also think he's ashamed and embarrassed about it. More than once, I've heard him say "I thought she was going to be my girlfriend.")

But things are, still, very smooth. A lot of this is just my own personal roller coaster.

Time...

The similarities in our sitches scare me.

My H and I have also separated more than once and H had a ONS during the last and longest separation. Psycho OW also called months after we got back together.

Sometimes I think we are married to the same person.

My H has also been revealing all kinds of things lately and one was how many people he has been with and it was way more than he told me when we first started dating. I didn't understand why he felt that he had to lie but then he told me that he was ashamed of how many people he has been with and thought I wouldn't give him the time of day if I knew the truth. I think he was expecting me to be judgmental because I have never been with anyone except H.

I just wanted to let you know that I enjoy reading your thread. I can relate to everything that is going on with you and makes me feel like everything I am going through is normal.