Hi All: Sorry this is long! Been following this board for a few weeks now, and have bought and devoured "Divorce Remedy". Like most here, my story is written from a similar script. Husband and I met when we were early 20's, married when he was 35/me 32. It's our silver anniversary this year. Husband has incredible fear of his mortality-always has, probably due to his mother passing when he was 23, father when he was 28. (Dad was 58yrs). Anyway, we've had our rough spots-I've suggested counselling in the past-which he has not wanted to do. 6 yrs ago I had stage 2 breast cancer, resulting in bilateral mastectomy/chemo/radiation/recon the works. Also dealing with mother with advanced dementia (she passed this June), and my father with mild, now probably mod dementia. In retrospect, I was also dealing with undiagnosed PTSD/depression while working full time +OT to pay bills (12 hrs shifts, health care). No sex life since Ca diagnosis, little emotional support last 2 years. He Ignored me while my mother was dying, then cried like a baby.
I didn't realize it at the time, due to my issues, but husband was withdrawing. I think he's MLC-once he hit 55 I started joking about senior's discounts and he refused to ask for them "I'm not telling anyone I'm old". At 58, he started telling everyone (except me) that he was retiring at 60. Our adviser said 62. I finally said he needs to talk to me about it, and he totally shut right down. End result-this June I said "I've talked to our adviser, and it's doable-but for us to be happy in retirement I think we need help with our relationship!" "Nope, we're beyond talking". So here we go:
BD#1 June 4.
Mother dies: June 8
I discover EA with work "friend"-he's messenging her. making flirty comments, she's not biting back with same.
June 14: He come home crying, "friendship just got crazy, he's sorry, he loves me forever blah blah blah".
June 19: Had first counselling session booked, he cancels out 1 hr before-I get the ILYBINILWY speech.
(I'm calling the BD #2)
I do the usual, cry, etc. End up at sister-in-laws, my counsellor suggests a letter-I write one and leave it for him "It's beautiful, I'm keeping it (and it is in his jewellery box), texts me hearts).
Things continue to deteriorate, he stops saying he loves me. I say," You know I do, but I will stop saying it."
July 4: Start LRT...detaching....light conversation.
So here we are. I think he's more detached than I am! But I'm trying. No relationship discussions, but we are sorting out a remortgage to clear consumer debt. We live rurally on acreage with animals. He tells me
1. He doesn't want to sell the house, I should stay in it for a year and he will pay 1/2 mortgage.
2. He says he's 50/50 re attempting reconciliation-will let me know if that changes. Not seeing any effort on his part, in fact I think I'm Plan B at this point if "WF" situation doesn't pan out.
3. We both work shifts-he wants to come home on his days off to tend to chores. When working he's currently staying with his sister. (who has been an awesome support to me).
4. Here it is: "work friend" and I have a mutual acquaintance. WF has a boyfriend, but my H is infatuated with her. Mutual friend says WF even says "he's infatuated" Says they are "friends" but is going shooting at the range etc with her. WF still not helpful as encouraging him to leave marriage, and he, at least, is in an EA.
5. Joined gym, working out, wants to buy sports car/mountain bike/get personal trainer. Thinks gym is "target rich environment" according to a friend.
6. When we talk about inconsequential things, eyes are darting all over the place, looking for escape.
I know, detach, be the lighthouse. My read on this is MLC/Fear of death. I'm still willing to attempt R, but having serious bouts of anger. Our conversations are so light, I can't even validate his feelings as they are unexpressed. When he does things (ie filled the horse trough because he noticed it was down) I thank him. When he tells me what his plans are re: coming home or staying at sister's I tell him I appreciate him letting me know where he'll be. That's about all I've got. I feel he's running as fast as he can away from me, and yet wants to come home on days off, keep the house, etc....Mixed messages fast and furious, but daily he is getting more distant.
What the heck is going on?! What can I do?
Just thanks for having this board, somewhere I can write other than my journal, or my friends who think I should just be done. Can't turn my back on the man he used to be. I accept this marriage is over, but I don't want the relationship to be.
Welcome to this board.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmMichele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmKeep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296Things you should know as the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701017#Post2701017Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1WAS showing you positive signs? WAIT - READ THIS!
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2772942#Post2772942Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
I would suggest that you run a credit history report as quickly as you can to keep an eye on your finances and assets. If he is in mlc, a large majority of them love to spend money.
His mind will be running very fast and furious and right now, he's saying all of the right things, but what he has told you about what he wants to do and have you do may or may not change. Promises are not usually kept by the mlcer.
Also, you do not want to be Plan B if things don't work out. You want to be number one and that means moving forward, working on you and if you have things that you want to change about yourself, now is the time to do them and make them a permanent part of your life.
As for seeking therapy, he will most likely cancel again or if he does go, he will only hear what he wants to hear. It's best that you seek out therapy for yourself at this time. Until his "friend" is out of the picture, he will not focus on what he needs to in order to heal himself. She's nothing more than a band aid to his pain.
Please try to remember that this is not about you. It is all about him and his childhood issues. You didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him. The only thing you can do is listen, be a friend and offer advice/suggestions only if he asks for them. Yes, the mlcer detaches about 18-24 months before the actual bomb falls hard on you. It will take you a while to fully detach and not react to his every word or action.
For now, keep the focus on you and your family. Make a list of projects and hobbies that you've put on the back burner and start working on them. Dig deep and find the woman that you were before you married him. Be the best that you can be because you are definitely the prize.
Thank you Cadet and Job.
I have run a credit check-and in fact signed up for monitoring. We have split the joint account-he now has his own chequing (he never paid attention to the budget, i find it ironic that now he realizes how much things cost). He is responsible for emailing money to cover joint expenses every 2 weeks. I've cancelled my two credit cards that he was subsidiary on.
He hasn't even said those things for a couple of weeks. Last night I did make a comment about space, and he thanked me for it. (I said it jokingly).
I do not want to be plan b for sure! I don't think he knows which end is up-he told my sister's BF that he "just wanted to be twenty again, go to the bar, get drunk and throw up on the way home" WTF? he's turning 60.
Regarding his promises re mortgage etc: I have told him I am getting a collaborative lawyer (my initial appointment is booked for next week) I want these promises in writing. When I filled out the intake form to send in, I gave him a blank copy and said "you can do one, or we can do one jointly" we did it jointly. When I asked the question (from the form) possibility of reconciliation-he very quickly and firmly said "yes". But I know, believe nothing of what they say. He says he's "confused" and "trying to find a path back" I believe the confused. not the other. I also don't think he's even thought about a lawyer yet-but I want the separation agreement done for my own protection.
I haven't mentioned therapy to him at all. I'm going to my own to sort out my issues, of which I've identified and can own as contributing to this. I find it interesting that he's apparently regressed back to the age where his parents died.
I am attempting to GAL again. It's a little difficult living in the sticks, but I'm getting out to community events, joined meetups locally, working out. Already lost 25 pounds! Days are fine, evenings alone are difficult. thank god for neighbours.
Thanks for the advice re listening/offering advice if asked. Right now he can't even look at me, and our conversation consists of "the cat's hair is growing back nicely since you shaved her!" Do I start conversations? Or wait for him?
I think I would step back a bit and allow him to come to you in the way of conversations. It's called going dim, not dark. If he asks you something, respond in a polite way. Think of him as a roommate at this time.
Thanks Job, that's what I gleaned from the book. It's so difficult as I'm usually quite gabby. I find he can sit and sort of chat with me for 10-20" (with no eye contact whatsoever), then he usually rushes off to "his" room and gets on facebook or youtube. So, friendly roommate it is. It feels like I've been trying to do this for ages, but looking at my calendar, I only made the conscious decision to stop pursuing on July 4. It feels like eternity! and I know that there are months to go. It's stunning to me how he can go from professing love to this ice cold person who I actually think at times might just hate me.
I still love him after all these years, and am looking at this as mental illness. (not to discredit some of our marital issues). I told him in my letter I would like to at some point attempt to reconnect, and then sort out some of these other problems. (communication/love styles).
You have an opportunity here to give him a taste of reality. Follow me on this:
Many WASs don't come to their senses until it's too late and the LBS has moved on into another relationship. Now, I'm NOT suggesting that you date or anything like that. BUT - it can be a kindness to give him a sense of what life might be like once you've moved on and give him a chance to respond NOW while it's not too late.
You have a good chance to do this because he's not living in the home but is coming and spending time there. Stage a few things to make him think - things that might look suspicious but that you can plausibly explain away.
Examples:
Two used wine glasses left on the deck or porch.
Flowers - (roses - when he asks, they're "from a friend, no you don't know them")
New Victoria's Secret lingerie - leave it hanging to dry in the bathroom, leave the bag somewhere in the bedroom.
Go away for a weekend - when he asks where and with whom, tell him that's none of his business anymore. (I went to a local hotel and cried and laid by the pool - not the most fun but it was refreshing and I know my ex wondered what I was doing all weekend.)
I guarantee you, he will start to think that what's sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose. And right now he just wants you to be his comfortable Plan B while he goes off and explores other women.
Also - I'm glad you're seeing a lawyer, but even if you do mediation, you need someone who is YOUR lawyer to advise you, separate from the mediator. And meet with your financial advisor too to see what financial position you will be in if H retires early and divorces you.
Hi
You sound like you are doing all the right things
seeing a lawyer and splitting accounts and taking name off credit cards
I would lean back as was suggested.
dont initiate anything
get a new hairstyle new outfit shoes, nails
make plans make new friends and activities as you already are
most important is work through your pain..seek therapy and heal grieve and watch
If it is true MLC..he seems a little on the older side..but if it is MLC, it will take him a while to get through
an average MLC takes 2-7 years
you already see the mLC behaviors:
affair
new clothes
cars. motorcycles
spending
gym
new friends
new jobs
hair change or color change
tattoos
partying
drinking
no responsibility
hang in there
Hi KML! yes, I get where you're coming from, but I think he knows this is too fresh and painful for me right now that he would see through it. I do try to make plans and get out of the house when I know he's here-just "I'm going to town-see ya later" kind of thing. Right now I'm only up to giggling at text messages on my cell phone. Sometimes I even wonder if he see me "getting a life" if he doesn't think "well, that's okay, she'll be alright". He's done weird things like telling my sister in law and her husband that "if it doesn't work out between us, they still have to be friends with me". What? Well, we are, but anyhoo....
re: Lawyer, yes I will have my own, he should have his-there is a group of lawyers in this town who do collaborative law, each person assembles a team-their own lawyer, financial adviser and therapist if needed.
Fortunately,(for me) if he does retire early, and divorces me, he's pretty much screwed himself. Our jobs pay close enough to each other that even though I make more than he does, he can't tag me for spousal support. Also, we have the same government pension plan, so any suing for pension essentially is a wash. My advantage is that I will, at some point in the next 5-10 years be inheriting a 2 suite revenue property in the middle of a very good neighbourhood. I'm currently functioning as the landlord there as I am my father's POA. I could bank the house sale proceeds (my share),evict the tenants, live cheap in the revenue house, and end up with a nice piece of real estate, house sale cash in the bank, plus my pensions. He ends up with his basic work pension, canada pension, and old age security (ultimately), proceeds from house sale, which he'd need to buy another place. I know he hasn't even thought about that-and I hope he doesn't so I don't wonder if we do end up reconciling that he's doing it for income.
This feels like it's bloody killing me. We were so close to retirement, have been through so much, could have been having fun-travelling, boating fishing etc. instead he's gone and done this. I'm a planner, him, not so much. Sometimes I just want to shake him into his senses, and tell him to stop being such an idiot, but I know that's not the way to go. We used to have a radio program up here called "Dead Dog Cafe" and their catch phrase was "Stay calm, be brave, watch for the signs" I'm using that.
Most days I just want to cry.
Hi Peace today, yes I'm pretty sure it's MLC-he has a phobic fear of death thanks ( I think,) to both parents dying while he was in his twenties. I even wonder if my cancer bout didn't start this off-I know he was devastated when I was diagnosed.
Let's see: ticking off boxes
Denial: started at 55 refusing to ask for seniors discount, "that's telling them you're old"
Anger: around 58 (his dad died at 58 yrs).....started flatly stating he's retire at 60 without discussion.
Emotional affair-this spring (59, turning 60 in Aug) ongoing.
Gym/working out-about 5 months ago
talk about "getting a trainer/buying a sports car/buying a mountain bike" changes monthly.
talks about "just wanting to party like in my 20's"
Gym is "target rich environment'
partying, drinking oh yes.
Honestly I think this has been going on for 3-4 years already. I was deep in issues with my parents and post recovery-didn't catch early signs. And frankly, I always thought (having been together for 30+ years) that we always had enough connection. Maybe, but we didn't nurture it as we should have. I'd like to try that, but he's replaying.
Oh honey - I know about the crying, but don't let it get you down. I'm glad you have financial security. (And if you do reconcile and then inherit that property, please look into ways you can keep that as separate property. I know here in the US if you always keep it separate and don't use funds from the joint checking to maintain it then your spouse has no right to your inheritance).
I was married for 24 years. Now, 10 years later, is the age when we both could have retired and had quite a nice life on our social security and H's pension. Could be traveling right now! Instead he ran off in a MLC, ended up marrying a young woman 19 years younger (thank god not an affair partner, she came along a year later). She gets to go on all the world-traveling vacations while I'm working to help our adult children on their feet (the divorce really threw a monkey wrench into their lives). Nonetheless, I've realized that my life is probably better without him, and every man I've dated since my divorce has appreciated me more than my ex did. I've had many adventures since he left, learned to play the drums in a punk band, learned to play vibraphone and glockenspiel with my friend who is a professional singer-songwriter and have toured with her, have financial security if not the lifestyle I thought, but enough.
When he comes over and you're going out for the evening, be dressed to kill and wearing nice perfume. Even if you're just going to the library. Let him think you're wearing that new Victoria's Secret underwear and worry about where you might be going.
Barb,
I have to say, for something being relatively fresh, you seem rather clear headed about all of this. Keep rolling with that and do for yourself.
Him hanging around and especially him wanting you to keep the house for a year speak to you being his plan B. Don't let that happen.
Do not believe anything he says and trust a small portion of his actions. You are correct to get everything in writing. The MLC mind is out for itself only. Lies, drama, manipulation, more lies, financial irresponsibility, irrational behaviors are likely in your future.
Protect yourself emotionally and financially. Keep up the good work.
Thanks kml and Hamburg-yes, I've always had that ability to hope for the best, and plan for the worst. So even though one part of my mind is spinning like a top, the other part can plan...I do critical care and I think that's a skill developed through that!
That being said, here it is 3 am, and I'm wide awake and in turmoil. Weirdly last evening I was reading and the joyful (there is no other expression for it) feeling came into my mind like God was talking to me and it was "he's coming back". It was almost overwhelming. I have been putting this in the hands of God. But here I am again in the wee hours. I've cut back my antidepressants-phoning my doc today as they were turning me into a zombie. Now I'm back wrestling with all the uncertainty. Just random 3 am thoughts. Visiting my in-laws tomorrow. Trying hard not to stress them out too much (my in-laws are totally stressed by this, and can't believe it either). We want to stay friends through all this.
""Do not believe anything he says and trust a small portion of his actions. You are correct to get everything in writing. The MLC mind is out for itself only. Lies, drama, manipulation, more lies, financial irresponsibility, irrational behaviors are likely in your future. [/quote]
I'm actually totally freaked out by the lies. We've always been honest with each other, at least I thought so. Drama-I'm also puzzled that there is no drama between him and me (does this make any sense?) almost like he doesn't have enough emotion about me to even have an angry/emotional spark. it's like he's emotionally dead, except for his eyes darting around everywhere. Just nothing....he's totally detached. He's never even really talked about why he wants out-just "we're beyond talking 2 months ago" (followed of course by "I love you, it's always only been you" followed 5 days later by "no spark"). Maybe we are done? Maybe he's convinced we're done? I'm not. But then why not sell (I've mentioned it twice-as in "if we are really done, we should just sell). See, my mind starts circling again.
I don't even get to try validation as the conversation is so banal.
The drama is what I think he's been enjoying with his "workfriend". He left his facebook open a few weeks ago (I don't snoop anymore, it's beneath me and doesn't change anything). The messages between him and his male friends at work were nauseating-like reading about a Grade 10 boy's crush on someone. "ooh she's giving me the cold shoulder" that kind of thing. Made me want to vomit. So clearly the guys at work are egging this on-they call it the "Donny and Marie" show. Is no-one saying "hey what about your 33 yr relationship?"
The mixed messages right now are clearly not in my favour. Have we squandered so much over the past few years that there is no recovery? That thought just makes me want to curl up on the floor and howl.
thanks for listening to my 3 in the morning thoughts. It's the worst time of day.
yes I used to get the 3 am thoughts and sometimes still do
I keep my I pad close by and put on some
I AM affirmations to quiet them and send me in a positive direction-back to sleep-
you are doing well and this is a challenging time for sure
continue to take care of you-
make sure you are eating..if you you dont want to
get fresh air/exercise
sleep, rest breathe, yoga if you can
meditation
read, share with trusted support people
take good care of your body
anything is possible but the hard part is the waiting and you will not know until time passes what direction he goes
so your best bet is to heal and grieve
the old Relationship is over
practice whatever new skills help you and some may also help the relationship to promote a healthy friendship
sorry to hear his CO workers seem to think his infactuation is a fun thing
many people deny the reality of MLC and some say it is contagious--
Thanks Peace. That notepad is a good idea-I always seem to have a fit at 3 or 4 in the morning.
I am sure to workout daily, going to start meditation.
Yes, all his divorced co-workers seem to be egging it on. One even suggested he sign up with Plenty of fish because there's lots of "horny 50 somethings". Thanks guys, for dragging him into your vortex.
I know our old relationship is over. I just hope there's enough left to bring him back at some point. I've acknowledge my contributions to our issues, and am more than willing to work on it-in counselling now.
Grieving....I'm like a giant walking bleeding heart. Trying though-I have things to do today, hair cut/style colour tomorrow, Friend's at the lake on thursday. That's as far ahead as I go.
Barb
you are doing a good jobYou and all you can at this point
a lot of the crises is just waiting ( healing during our wait time)
to see where it all goes-
The time is valuable and you will know more soon-
Have a good day
Barb,
Take one step at a time, one hour at a time. You can't plan out too far in advance because you don't know what tomorrow will bring. Try to remember that the past is gone, tomorrow is the future and no one knows what it will reveal and yes, today is a present, a gift to do whatever we need to do to survive while we walk the path. It's true, time is our friend, gift and it's golden. Use it wisely
Yes, his divorced friends will egg him on because they relish the fact that another marriage may bite the dust and trust me, they do know what is going on w/him and probably are laughing behind his back at the mistakes he's making. His new friends won't know his history and they will encourage him to do things that he would never have thought of doing had he not been in crisis. This is a very emotional and spiritual trip for him and until he faces his childhood issues and comes to realize that he had no control over whatever happened, he will control stumble along the crisis path.
No matter what you say to him, he will not listen. In fact, he will be more determined to do whatever it is that you've pointed out that is out of character for him. The best thing to do is drop the rope of trying to have a rational conversation w/him because you can't do so when they are so emotionally charged. The greatest gift you can give him right now is the time and space he needs to heal. I know it's difficult to do, but you have to let him go for a while.
If you opt to keep a journal, be sure you put it in a safe place when he's around. Also, make sure you password your electronics so that he can't see what you are up to or come here. Also, be sure to have yourself checked out to ensure that he's not given you anything.
Keep the focus on you. Sit quietly when necessary and the answers will come. Hang in there!
Well yesterday was one heck of day-went to visit my sister in law to apologize for some of things that I hadn't done well for the past few years of my depression/recovery.. ended up there for 4 hours (this is where H is staying when he's working) I was good until we got to the subject of my Br Ca. I've been waiting for 5 years for validation from H that he stills loves me (even though I feel scarred and maimed) and that it doesn't matter that I lost my breasts (reconstructed, but not the same). From his sister-"he was devastated" more than once he was at their place crying and saying "I don't care if she loses her breasts, I just don't want her to die" I broke down I needed so much to hear this from him but he is so weirdly emotionally repressed even then, he didn't say it to me. This hurt so much to hear even 4 years later. And the tears just kept coming.
One of my issues I guess I need to work on is not just saying I'm fine, but actually asking for what I need.
His family thinks the EA has died off, he just goes to their place after work and watches TV. Has stopped going to the gym, stopped running (which is too bad as I think it was good for him), seems to not be going out for beers with the boys as much. I'm concerned that as we all feel this is about aging/death-his 60th is coming up in August like it or not. Is he starting to cycle towards depression? who knows.
He came home last week while I was in full anger mode at him (unexpected arrival), I'd just replayed in my head everything he's done and was royally ticked off. I was civil, but certainly not upbeat. He bailed out back to his sister's-went in and said sounding surprised "Barb cold-shouldered me!" His sister told him "what the h3ll do you think she would do?" She's quite awesome.
He's home again this Friday, potentially for 4 days. Plans are full day in town-appointments/lunch with friends, not coming home all day even if it means I take myself for a drive somewhere in between appointments. Saturday-I have to be home, getting organized for work again on Sunday (I've had 6 weeks off). Sunday-back to work. Monday-I get to sleep in the aft for night shifts. It's not really GAL, but at least it's getting back to my life!
Still need to gird my loins for detachment. It's something I consciously have to plan for when I know he's coming.
Thanks for the support.
Barb,
You are on the right track that you have to consciously detach. It’s hard. He is a hot mess of very strong emotions. You are an oasis of calm (or at least good at faking it when he is around).
Self care is really important or else you will burn out. Scream and cry and punch things when he is not around. Do things that calm you with friends or by yourself. Read a book for pleasure. Take a walk in the woods. Get a massage. Go on a vacation.
Thanks Gordie: I've rediscovered my treadmill and gym downstairs-lost 30 lbs! so far. Endorphins are great. My dog is getting lots of very, very long walks, and my journal contains language nobody but me should ever read! It's still so difficult, part of me just wants to scream at him and have him "snap out of it" which I know isn't going to happen. I get that pit of my stomach feeling when he's here, and plan on having lots to do. Even if it is just going to my room and watching netflix! Love the suggestion about the range from someone on here-I went yesterday and realized how cathartic that was too. I hadn't been for a few years.
Okay guys, he's coming home today on his days off to do "chores". I have plans to be in town all day. Went to the lake to visit an old friend (she's like a 2nd mother to me and him)...and find out he has rewritten our script and is telling everyone "we've separated, but we're still friends". I've already told him we are not friends, I am his estranged wife giving him the space he's asked for. Has he gone that far ahead in his mind that we're already done and now we are "friendly?" What on earth is that about? And if this is MLC, which I'm still convinced it is, I read a lot about the MLC'er spewing anger etc at the LBS. Should I be glad there's none of that? Or is he just that emotionally checked out? Is it yet to come? Getting my antidepressants adjusted today. Thank goodness.
apparently he's just sitting around his sister's house when he's not at work. Going to the bar/gym/running etc has died out. His 60th bd on Aug 16.
Yes, if this is MLC, by the time you get word via BD, the MLCer has ended the marriage in his/her head. We all know how crazy that is, as to us it seems very sudden, they don’t want to work it out and typically there’s no logical reason they give us.
If this is MLC it has been simmering for a long time. It was so gradual it was hard to really piece it all together until BD. But if we look at the 6 stages, this is when most of us have our ah-hah moment, and begin to understand that you were seeing these early stages of his crisis but it was so glacial it went unnoticed. Look over the 6 stages of MLC if you haven’t already.
Not all of them spew anger. I would not say mine monstered too much. He had moments where he was like a viper. Some of them are just quiet while others rage. It is like the teenage years; some are angry, some are quiet, some yell, etc. But he had every trigger for MLC (troubled childhood, poor coping skills, emotionally stunted) every symptom of MLC and he read the script beautifully! Could have won an academy award for it ...
Barb,
They begin to disconnect/distance themselves from us approximately 12-24 months prior to the bomb drop. Yes, as HaWho has pointed out, by the time the bomb drops, they've already divorced us. Yes, they do like to tell others that we are separated/divorcing and we are going to remain friends. That is all upstairs in their minds. They don't realize that when a divorce comes along, life will change not only for you, but for them as well. Friends to not treat friends the way the MLCer does.
As for the stages of MLC, they are just a guideline, i.e., just as the time it takes each and every one of them to go through the crisis. The stages of MLC are very much like those of the grieving process. They are grieving for the loss of their childhood and the past. We are grieving for the death of a marriage/relationship.
Read as much as you can on MLC and depression. Depression is the main ingredient of MLC.
Some will spew especially if they are put on the spot. Each person is unique and so is their personality and that means that the MLC will have some of the traits that they all have and other traits will be unique to that individual.
As for what he's telling people, I wouldn't try to explain to him any further that you aren't friends. Just go about your business and if someone says something to you about what he's said, say "the issue between us is personal and private at this time. I appreciate your concern". Don't feed those who come to you w/gossip.
Actions speak louder than words and you will need to watch and listen as time moves along. Keep the focus on you for the time being. They are just out in left field and you don't want to go out there w/him.
Thanks to both of you. yes I think this slide actually started 3-4 years ago, looking back. I had so many issues going on in my family i didn't really notice other than i did know that he was becoming more and unsupportive of me at the time I really needed him. His dad died when he was 58 and H is convinced going to die as well. I've been through more than most folks can imagine in the last 5 years and now, when we should be retiring and relaxing we're doing this. I've been reading like crazy and I don't know if I have it in me. I think he has some fantasy about us living here in the place as roommates while he goes on and about doing his thing. I'm super scared about the future no kids one sister. His family is essentially my family and while I'm trying to gal and reconnect with old friends, well I'm scared of being alone and lonely. Even though logically i can recognize I've been essentially alone for the past 2 years. I don't want to ride this roller coaster.
I also feel like I don't have the time to wait. Maybe there is someone out there who can love me the way I deserve to be loved but unfortunately after all these years I still love him even though he's doing this.
I will carry on gal'ing, sorting out my affairs, being dim and detaching. I only did the we aren't friends thing once. I cant believe the pain this brings and part of me just wants to lash out and make him feel it, but I know he wont. I know he thinks we are done, and he has zero empathy. 36 years.
Thanks for listening. I'm just spewing angst everywhere I go.
He's not even experiencing life on his own staying between his sister's and here. I need to fix up the house to sell and I will have to euthanize my 2 old horses to move. So I'm not even emotionally ready to think about just pulling the pin on the whole mess. He has some weird timeline about me staying here for a year and he'll pay 1/2 the mortgage etc. Getting that in writing next week. Is there part of him that even thinks it might want to come back?
It is a scenario none of us envisioned. It's hard to not think about the future, but try and take it day by day. It is difficult to grasp, but a future without him would be the best unless he has a true awakening. You may invest years of uncertainty, worry, fighting, lies, etc... it will age you and wear you down emotionally. The MLC brain has the stamina to continue the bizarre actions for a very long time, so there is little wear and tear to them.
As for the house, he is cake-eating and keeping you as his plan B. He is confused but there is a little spark in his brain that has the capability of running his entire thought process on emotions. Rational decisions and logic are pushed to the very back and may present themselves in occasional very small, short-lived bursts of lucidity but those will come and go.
Yes he is hoping you'll be his Plan B. They're not thinking logically but emotionally. All he knows is he's in pain and trying to run from it. He doesn't realize that wherever he goes, there he is.
You don't need to make any decisions right now. Do see an attorney to learn how best to protect yourself financially while in limbo. Then get out and live a life so fun and exciting he'll want to join you.
You need to minimize stress and maximize joy as a cancer survivor.
I repeat my suggestion that you arrange a fun vacation or weekend getaway with a friend or your sister-or on your own! Let him wonder if you're going to meet someone while you're gone. Do something out of the box.
Also, consider changing your hairstyle or color, buying new clothes, leaving that Victoria's Secret bag out where he sees it. The goal is not to start dating but to give him the opportunity to feel some of the loss he would feel if you HAD moved on, to give him a chance to snap out of it before you've actually moved on.
And regardless it's a good idea to work on strengthening your circle of friends. The truth is as women we are more likely to outlive our partners and friends and family are key to living rich lives. I saw a single, childless new patient in her late 80's and she told me how she had a circle of friends who have agreed to care for each other as the need arises.
I like everything KML suggested
I know feeling the pain/loss of a spouse is so difficult
and I promise you that it passes and even when I look back now there is No regrets
I did all I could to save our M
Truth is we cant see how fabulous our lives can be while we are grieving,
but one foot in front of the other
we get to a happier place---even though that seems impossible at the time of the loss
We never know if/when the MLCer will truly shift back and there seems to be a stream of that going on the boards right now
but only time can really tell what the future holds
we have to live our best life now
making the best choice at the moment
trying to save the M first by letting it go-and grieving we have the best chance to save ourselves and our M
using each day to grow and learn the skills that will push us forward with or without our H
Not only do you not need to make any decisions right now regarding moving on, you actually should not make them. You need time to sit still and let this all digest. Otherwise you may make an emotional decision vs. a logical one.
Definitely see a lawyer. Protect/freeze finances.
Mine lived in house for 4 years before he moved and so I can tell you depression is the main ingredient. And yes, it is extraordinary what they “plan.” At BD, mine told me he wanted to get an apartment and sleep with other women on Fridays and Saturdays but come home for pancakes in the AM. Seriously. He told me he needed to have women looking at him “meaningfully” and I am sure this was a mommy issue as he was neglected and treated worse than his brother. He was shocked when I outright said no to this plan.
They are not in their right minds, like teens. But, they have access to funds so they can do damage to your life.
You will be okay. Just take day by day. Post often as this place is amazing with supportive people.
So Friday night he comes home and I'm afraid I lost my marbles 'started yelling about not being plan b, I wasn't sitting here tending home fires while he ran around trying to find someone else. A lot of choice language. How badly he treated me while mother was dying and if it's over maybe we should just sell . Pretty much everything you probably shouldn't say. Amazingly he say and took it. When I said "and I'm worried about you". He started sobbing. I said "sometimes I think you have me and I repulse you. He said "no I don't hate you i love you but I don't want to hurt you anymore". Then a few other thtings. We ended up holding hAnds and talking for a bit. Then I could see him getting antsy so I moved away. We were able to talk he was able to make eye contact.
Next morning off to bank he gave me hug before we left. Asked me to call him later. I did and he asked (normally) what I was doing. I said a few things then heading home. He called later to say he was at his office but on his way home. Then he phones 10 minutes later and says "who did you tell about Maria as she says it's all over town we had an affair". I said your family. Then he said what about doctors "I said Cheri (mutual friend of me an Ow) who is actually the person who told me it wasn't physicial". I said " but you were inappropriatle y emotionally involed". To which he said yes but I wasn't infatuated! This was all in a very normal tone.
Then I said I had hoped he was coming home as I was excited....I'd been reading up on sbt counselling and wanted to talk about it. HEpe even sounded positive and. It felt like we've had a bit of a breakthrough. Two days of reasonable conversation.
Then I'm at work today and he phones me to talk about issues with our boat and how he's taking it to town but he'll be back later say 9ish. Goes to sister's again and she tells him not to make the hour drive home as he's falling asleep on couch. So we've lost another evening. She hopes we can keep talking I'm going to have to tell her we can't if he's always there!
And with both our shiftwork it's hard to have time together.
THen I see his paperwork and his pulling his accounts to a different bamk....which for some reason sets me right off again.
It felt like we made baby steps and now losing momentum.
Barb
It is a difficult thing..MLC
a lot of mixed messages and emotions because they are confused and in crises
If it is true that it may be caused by unresolved trauma from a younger stage, there is not going to be an easy fix unless the person decides to get therapy and help to explore their past-
many will not go this route from my experience
they will choose replay and have fun instead, spend a lot, party, ect...addictions to ease their pain
you may see a lot of touch and goes
they seem closer, they hang out more, talk more
ect...
then they are gone again as if nothing happened
His moving financial accounts and money is a clear message and I would make sure your money, assets accounts credit cards and property are safe
Remember...they LIE
do not trust anything you hear and half of what he does
they act in ways totally opposite of who they were.
MY XH came to my home while it was empty and after he had moved out to get paperwork and titles of vehicles ect..
Keep your finances safe while you watch
keep focusing on you and your new life while he decides
remember you will need to see consistent and constant movement toward the relationship
and behavior of a person who wants to be in a relationship
It's weird, he didn't move his accounts just started a small savings one at a different bank so he wouldn't be tempted by it. He came home the next morning and before I knew it we were talking about "spark" as I. What about #spark". I said spark and emotional reconnection can happen. Then we got into retirement and selling. I said let's face it the house will be sold next year. He said we should have sold 10 years ago and he's just finding the drive to work and maintainance of the farm too much. I said " Don, we could retire sell and move on closer to your family which I know is important". Then he says "but what if we end up in the same position we are in now in 2 years?". I said we need to be careful and learn from this and not make same mistakes. He said " I have to mull it over". I went for a nap (night shift). When he left in the afternoon he said "that was a positive day". And We'll chat next days off.
Okay I was floored. I thought after yelling at him he'd leave. Instead we end up having 3 days of more meaningful conversation than we've had in months. It's like a dam burst with all that crying and am i crazy to see a glimmer of thought about the future?I
I also thought that after the emotion of the first night he would back pedal like crazy but no, he kept talking. I am curious as to what the next days will bring. I am expecting backslide. I will continue to gal...bocce tomorrow and a powwow on sunday! And let him lead the conversation. I can't believe we're actually having them!
Regardless lawyer on thursday
Glad you will continue on with Lawyer as you watch for positive moment
only time will tell-
I would keep expectations at low and continue on with your plan B while you support H as he decides
Im glad he continues to show you positive movement back to the M
You will know more later but continue to take good care of you
No matter what he says verbally--I would watch more for action and still keep money property and all acccounts on watch
Thanks peace. I'm always afraid of over analyzing everything. But that was indeed positive. He blames me for our financial issues and I think I managed okay at just validating and listening. Even with that he still said it was positive. I need to sit tight.
Then other strange thing is that he seems to respond when I get really angry. Talking to his sister his parents used to fight and I wonder if in some weird way he sees that as a sign i care about him. It's been twice now. Which doesn't mean I'm about to start fights with him but it's a strange thought.
It's hard to gal and be upbeat when I'm fighting with depression. How do people do it?
while going through the start of the crises many of us will be in extreme pain grief and depression
it lightens as time goes on and we heal
How to deal with depression
feel it
embeace
and allow it
Therapy helps and depression is part of the crises for us to grieve
sometimes a lot of unresolved grief all comes up at the same time for us-
exercise
sleep
rest
a little fun here and there
good nutrition
trust others have been through and got through it
positive u tube videos
books
music
meditation, prayer church or temple
when possible-
pretend being happy
smile
joke
fun movies
Fake it till you make it
remind self it is temporary and we go through this for the belief of healing and possibly helping the M
then we go through it for our healing and letting go of the old M
Well, you guys nailed it. Just got a call on our home phone-message from his "new bank" where he only has a "mutual fund" Message: "Hi it's Crystal at TD! Good News! Call me back in office tomorrow!" This is either a car loan, or a mortgage preapproval. Since we have just been to our bank to refi the house and clear up consumer debt-I can't believe the utter irrationality of whatever it is he's done.
So I was upset, depressed, crying and then I thought" Does this info change anything?" No-off to lawyer tomorrow sep. agreement about who pays for what. If he's screwed up the refi with a new credit check-too bad, he can keep paying his portion of the consumer debt and the mortgage. I'm going ahead with finishing the bathroom and getting house ready to sell, if it comes to that. The only reason I don't want to hang onto the house is I end up living in the boonies over the winter.
Maybe he's been so pleasant because he thinks he's pulled one over on me. But who cares? I will carry on. Purging basement today, Bocce ball with friends tonight, lawyer tomorrow, in town all day Friday (on call), Bonfire at family fishing derby Saturday night (Don will be there, but that's his problem-I like the rest of his family, and they invited me), Powwow Sunday, then back to work monday. Hope I can be brave through all this. I'm starting to think of him like a rubber bouncing ball-carooming all over the place.
Barb,
Believe zero of what he says to you and pay attention to actions. The action of opening his own savings acct speaks volumes. His words will aim toward hooking you emotionally and his actions will be discordant to that. He knows your weaknesses and will manipulate you. This is not the person you once knew. My W played the sympathy card to friends and family in order to get money that she eventually blew on new furniture, clothes and her affair partner. Don't fall for it and continue to distance yourself emotionally. You sound to be doing well in terms of GAL, continue doing that.
Well, probable overreaction on my part. It's not a car loan, or a mortgage approval, its a credit card with a 5000 limit. He called me after he got off work to talk about tomorrow's separation agreement. Another very pleasant, lengthy conversation. And then he proceeded to outline his entire agenda for his days off. And guys, I have to say, that any time I'm able to confirm what he's told me, it's been true. When he is in town for work, he goes to work, then home to his sisters. There isn't any wild life going on that anyone can figure out. I think our marriage was rocky enough that he got into his EA, then kicked over the traces, and is now kind of wondering if it was worth it. However, I am still Gal'ing like crazy. And purging the house, and getting the bathroom done for max dollar on resale. He's actually phoned me daily for the past week now, where a month ago I was getting essentially 3 word text messages, and then only if really necessary. I do think there's been a bit of change and he is showing positive movement.
That being said-my non negotiables are no contact with "workfriend" and marriage coaching. I've switched to a SBT therapist for my own work on me.
GAL on everybody!
Sounds good Barb
I assume his new credit card is his name only
seems like you have all your bases covered..enjoy the weekend
So now I'm journaling I think with you guys. Initial lawyer meeting-she had read our 7 page intake and said "can't you just go on vacation and thrash this out"? Then we had a lovely conversation. She is suggesting that since we are amicable, and he has said in the past reconciliation is possible that we draft a kitchen table separation agreement-and gave me an outline. In simple language, outline who pays for what. What happens if someone reneges (move to formal agreement), Take photos and value all assets (snowmobiles, trailers, vehicles, tractors, etc). All debts he incurs after June 19 (BD #2) are his. Phew.
so I texted H and said "don't worry right now about getting a lawyer etc...here's what mine had to say..."if we're amicable, and potentially reconciling down the road, just sit down and do an agreement". He was at work, and usually can't respond. So he phones me later in the afternoon-and basically didn't have to as it was just to confirm what my text had said. But man, was he cranky! I said "yes, she says if we can do this amicably blah blah" and his response was "well, something to ponder" I said "I thought you wanted to chat anyway so maybe we'd get a chance to this weekend." (It's his annual family reunion at the old ranch just up the road from us). But then he did say they'd basically had two awful things happen to co-workers at his office today. One person's uncle was macheted, and another person's child is in children's hospital and that co-worker suddenly booked off 5 days special leave, so they are assuming bad news.
So maybe bad mood from that, or maybe he's backpedalling from the past week. On the upside, at least he's phoning now instead of 3 letter text messages. Either way, I know what the answer is!! Upbeat and GAL on!! I will also stop saying possible reconciliation, and just stick with amicable. I'll do what I do best when alone and a little nervous-housework/purge!
PEP talk needed-I think he's coming by today on his way to the family reunion, but not sure. I'm feeling very nervous and teary this morning, need to find my core to deal with him. Need to set up time to discuss separation agreement. All I get from him now when I mention anything is "something to mull over" or "something to ponder" I will tell him if we can't come up with one, we will book a mediator and get it done.
So I'm dealing with the farm, the animals, the house (with the torn apart bathroom) the shop, the outbuildings all full of stuff. A lot of it "his" shop equipment, ice fishing stuff, snowmobiles, ham radio equipment. We have a mortgage and a significant amount of consumer debt thanks to some bad decisions and my illness. Hoping to refi the house and least get payments down to a reasonable level. We were okay with two incomes/one house but that situation is blown right out of the water.
Part of me just wants to pack my stuff, take my animals and walk away. Leave him to deal with it. Except he won't happen. And I'm still paying 1/2 the bills. If only we didn't live so far from town. I have neighbours, but I'm isolated from a lot of my friends. My sister is 4 hours away, my father is 1/2 hr away, but has dementia, and I'm also dealing with him and his living alone situation.
I've really thought about evicting tenants from dad's basement suite, and leaving. Can't see a way to do that at this point. Sell house as is? But I still have to get everything sorted and packed.
Re all his hobby equipment-I should probably take pictures of it all and attempt to value it right? He's going to claim it all has his but he's got thousands of dollars in vintage ham radios (2 rooms full), and shop equipment.
I'm backing out of the powwow tomorrow. I just realized it's 4 hours, and my tolerance for groups right now is about an hour. Going to take dog for long walk instead.
I have to give up trying to figure out what he's thinking. Stick to my track. I just wish my track was more clearly outlined as far as the house and living arrangements.
God guys, please tell me it gets better. I need to hear it today.
I'm also contacting (just emailed) a licenced financial trustee to see if there is any other way forward out of this financial mess....Leave the mortgage alone and do a consumer proposal? Can I do that for my 1/2 of the consumer debt?
His answers are vague. It's part of the MLC process because of the confusion. It is also a way to control a situation. One way for you to flip it is to give him vague answers as well.
With regards to the house, I would hold off on refinancing. Perhaps an agreement could be both pay 1/2 for everything until it sells? Depending on your state, you may owe him 1/2 the equity once it changes hands.
If you see him, act as if everything is going well. Laugh, converse and have a good time.
You have tough decisions to make. For me, going on the offensive, moving out and pressing hard with a lawyer ended up best for me. I have small kids and W did some pretty bad things that the judge did not like. Your situation is different. It was tough, but things got better eventually.
You are correct to stop guessing his thoughts and actions. Keep the focus on yourself.
I don't know the answer to the debt question. Much depends on your state laws regarding property and debt.
You WILL get through this and come out a better person, regardless of the outcome. You've been slapped upside the head with a frying pan. Clarity will come with time. You will fall into traps and feel lost at times but it all gets better eventually. I hated hearing that at first but it is very true!
Thanks Hamburg. words of wisdom. I've got the 50%/50% split written up in the separation agreement, but honestly I can barely afford it on my own. If he bails out on the agreement, and doesn't pay his share, I'm stuck. Where we live, listing the house now-well, sometimes they take a year to sell. I will owe him 1/2 the equity for sure as we are joint on everything.
I'm actually thinking back over the past 5 years, and getting really, really angry about his absenteeism (past 2 years) and lack of support while I was going through all my issues. As I said to him "when I really needed you the most, there you were, gone" I won't let him know (other than a week ago when I yelled and screamed at him) but I will keep getting all the legal/practical advice I can.
I'm usually so direct, I will work on my vagueness.
Did you sign anything or just write it up?
It sounds harsh, but do anything and everything for yourself. It is still very early and you may have no idea of things that may have been done--like purchases, affairs, theft, incurred debt, other properties, etc... these folks may live second lives the LBS is unaware of.
My W and I lived by an "agreement" for 6 months before I decided to enact the court system. During that time much of what we agreed to was ignored by her and it cost me a tremendous amount of money and time. She got 6 months of cake eating while my kids and I suffered. Once her reluctance became a court order, things got much better. Divorce takes a long time and EVERY aspect of your personal life will be intruded upon.
Avoid making any decisions during an emotional time. Think about things through and then plan B and plan C, just in case. You seem very level-headed so that makes it easier for you.
Only written up. I will run it past my lawyer before signing. It's a draft. H hasn't even looked at it yet. He's at a family event this weekend, however our last conversation when I said we could do our own his response was "something to ponder". Well, I will text him Monday when he's back in cell range. We need to look a this and get it done. If he doesn't want to do our own (and run it past our lawyers), then I will suggest a mediator to get it done at $300.00. If not, I will go to my lawyer and we can do that for $3000.00. It will be up to him how much he wants to spend. Once it's signed, then at least I have the option of court. Right now-I'm just dangling.
At least we don't have kids, just our property and debt. I think he thinks we will just keep informally drifting along the way we have for the last 6 weeks. Um no.
On a personal note, it's so difficult to keep looking back at the person he used to be, and to try to come to terms with the person he now is. Only last week he was crying, didn't want to hurt me, came back the next day talking about "spark" and what retirement might look like in 2 years, and how to avoid having this happen again. Then a couple of days of pleasant conversation. And now-I'm being ghosted again. I think (understatement) he's having trouble facing reality.
If nothing changes, I will be applying for an uncontested divorce in a year. In British Columbia you can after 1 year separation. I love him, I feel for him, but life is too short (I'm 58).
Oh heck yes, it gets better, one way or another.
I suggest prioritizing the things that are necessary for refi- that way you can refi if it looks like you'll be staying, and you'll need to have done that stuff anyway if you're going to sell. And yes, it's a good idea to photograph all his stuff including model numbers etc. You should either get half the value in other assets, or they should be sold and the money split.
You're right that the WAS will never get stuff done - they all want the "zipless divorce" ( like the zipless f--- in Erica Jong's novel Fear of Flying) and even when they're sure they want the divorce they often can't be bothered to do the paperwork. And if you move out and he moves back in lord knows how long it'll take to get it sold.
It sounds like you're realizing it's not a great place for you living alone, and maybe not a great place for the future even if you reconcile?
Thank kml-just got back from my nightly anti-anxiety dog walk. I don't know why but I'm good all day (it is truly amazing what I'm getting done around here) and then in the evening-bang anxiety attacks. Thank goodness I have the dog! This is actually the thing that makes me really think this is MLC, he's even ignoring his dog.
I just photo'd all the "toys" boat, rv, two tractors, shop equipment, snowmobile, even the manure spreader. And then close up shots of all his radio equipment-showing manufacturers and model #. I'll upload to my cloud account so it's never lost.
When he had his moment of clarity last weekend and we talked about what reconciliation and retirement might look like-he said "this place is just too much work" and I said fine, then we should sell and move closer to your family. He said "we should have sold 10 years ago" however, it had never, ever come up in conversation. Then I said "Even if you said right now you were coming back, I wouldn't believe it because it will change tomorrow". He said "Yes, probably."
So you know, I believe that he's confused. I appreciate the 3-4 days of pleasantness and some of what sounded like actual honesty. But then, of course, it disappeared again.
I am not moving out. If I refi-and the debts are paid, then I know that if he reneges on the agreement I can carry the mortgage. A year gives me enough time to purge, pack, paint, redo the bathroom and sort out the animals. It's been such a horrendous 2 months with my mother passing on top of everything else that I just can't cope with selling right now.
Thank goodness for excellent neighbours in our little community here. Everyone knows now that I'm essentially on my own. I can phone anyone for help. Neighbour just volunteered her husband to do my electrical for the torn apart bathroom, and another neighbour is doing framing and drywall. Electrician is rounding up a plumber buddy too.
I know I can do this. I just thought we'd be doing it together.
Well heck, that was weird. He randomly stopped in this morning, and I was literally heading out the door for coffee date with friend. We had a short discussion re when to meet for the agreement and he seemed quite puzzled trying to figure out when to meet. So I said "well, you know my schedule so when you come up with a time, just text me and let me know-because I'm already late so see you later". Came back 2 hours later and he's still here.
Apparently he's planning on coming here tomorrow night, staying overnight, doing some work upstairs, and then staying over tuesday night (his room) and heading into work from here Wednesday morning. Some desultory chit chat about his family, the reunion he went to last night. I'm working 12 hour shifts Monday and Tuesday so no big problem.
Then he said "can one of us buy the other out" and I said "honestly, I can't afford to , and I don't really want to." Then he said he was planning to continue staying at his sister's on his 4 day work stretch, and here on his 4 days off-because there is firewood to get in, and the driveway needs ploughing in the winter. Oh, and if I buy the brake pads for the truck, he'll do the work and change them. To which I responded appreciatively. After about 1/2 an hour of this I said "i've got to go answer a couple of these emails" and went upstairs.
I was friendly, didn't offer up much, was able to leave both conversations of my own accord. I have no idea why he wants to come home on days off, but oh well, that gives me some time. He also reconfirmed not selling the house for a year, but I will get that in the sep. agreement for sure.
So in one week we've regressed back again from talking about what retirement could look like and how to get there to this. So I guess that last week of pleasantness was some kind of "touch and go"?
Oh, and we've schedule the 'agreement" talk for tuesday after I'm home from work.
It definitely gets better and it gets better faster if we drop the rope like it’s on fire.
Regarding the vast waffling in plans, yes, it’s the massive confusion we all see that tells us something is very off with our spouses. It’s why we all say focus on you and build the best life you can because he’ll be a pendulum for a good long while. And if you take every “plan” to heart, you’ll go nuts right alongside him.
I suppose his closeness is a little touch and go? He could be a bit scared by you taking the helm on the separation agreement. Who knows?!?! I had a live - in MLCer and what I found, is he did these sorts of touch and gos for a while and then he got worse. They have to get worse to have a chance at getting better.
Note it, but just roll on because it’s just a snapshot of where he is in this moment. Do what you need to do to take care of you and if he wakes up and you’re still there, great! Do what you need to do to take care of you and if he wakes up and you’re not there, it will be his loss.
Thank HaWho!
Yes, I think I'll be dealing with a part-time live in MLC'er, which is surprising because i thought once the financing came through he'd be gone. I'm definitely getting stronger every day. I actually feel surprisingly good today! Met a new (divorced) single woman here in my valley,another horse owner, which actually makes quite a strange little rural community of single women, there's at least 6 of us. And there's only 25 properties here. We're going kayaking together next week. And now I've decided I know enough (and like enough) of the singles up here-I'm starting to have movie nights at my place-girlfriends, popcorn, wine, google play movies, which will occupy winter nights somewhat too. I am rebuilding for sure. I think I'm getting better at detachment too. I feel for him, when he looks sad and stressed, but if he wants to only chitchat, I can chitchat. If he's cranky, I can leave. I can sit in the same room and read my book. My patience is developing.
I don't know why he'd be scared by me taking the helm-It's pretty much what I've had to do the entire marriage. Maybe it's a bit of a reality check? Particularly when I said "and we'll have to value our assets too...boat etc, and all your ham radios". I like to have all the ducks in a row, just in case. Plan for the worst, hope for the best.
It's kind of lovely feeling so strong in the daytime. Just those darn evenings and nights.
I do think he's done with me and the marriage-i think our talks last week were more about regret than what ifs. Today he was asking if one of us could buy the other out. Then he said he was okay with a year. Then he said his nephew wants to buy our place. See it's evening. I'm like Dr Jeykll and Mr Hyde, I'm good in the daylight. Nervy at night. I guess I can look at this as I've been "given the gift of time" at least another year or so. If he keeps coming and going. I have to be ready for he might just up and leave. Time to walk my dog.
And I don't even know why. Nothing from him really about why we 're done. Just that we are
And I don't even know why. Nothing from him really about why we 're done. Just that we are
He doesn't hate you. He is in a deep state of confusion, fueled by emotion without any reasoning. Think of a teenager acting out against a parent. That's the mindset he is in. Do not be hard on yourself. If you haven't done so, read the thread on detachment. It is exceedingly difficult to do, but very much worth it in the end.
Thanks Hamburg. I am/was in a dark place tonight. Night is when the anxious demons rear their heads. He's never told me what my failings are but I hear a litany from others. Some of my failings i can own and acknowledge. Others blatant y unfair. I've told him I can own my failings. But you know he's never acknowledged his. And when I really think about it I've done most of the heavy lifting in the marriage around the emotional work. I'm saddened to think that he will possibly never be able to be introspective enough to deal with his flaws. I am working on detachment and it's getting better. We will have until next spring, I will try, but I'm not really hopeful.
Barb - I'm sorry you are struggling. I've been at this for a while now, and I had periods where I was great. H wasn't so much on my mind, I was getting on with a nice life. Then bam! All the emotions come flooding back. That's where I am right now. I know for me, it's when I put too much focus on H and what he might be doing, thinking, etc. Us LBSs have no clue what's really going on in their minds. It's futile for us to try to guess, too. But, we still all struggle with it.
It's part of the process of letting go and detachment. A necessary part, I think. Don't beat yourself up about what he thinks your flaws might be. I'm curious about whole would have told you other than your H about your flaws? Part of this process is looking at ourselves to see how we can be better people for ourselves and in general, not for our spouse. If you believe there are some things that you could work on for yourself, than do so. But for yourself, not H or anyone else who might be weighing in on this.
And many spouses in MLC never work on their issues. They just don't have the strength. I hope yours does, in the end.
Hang in there!
Thanks Grace-short answer as I'm on the way to work. I hear he's been talking to his sister. The biggest complaint she heard was that "he just wanted a clean house" and the "inside was my job". I did hear from him that I mismanaged money.
You know, I work, he works (both shift). I never agreed inside was my job. I did the shopping/meal planning, cooking and the vast majority of the cleaning. I also did all the horse related chores outside, fixed fencing, landscaping and outside projects with him. Looking back, I he mowed lawns, and kept our equipment running.
Money-he never bothered to look at any budget I presented him with. But he certainly wanted to buy boats and snowmobiles etc. The past few years-I just made it happen as it was easier. He'd say things like "let the moths out of the wallet".
Poor communication-I know we've had these issues in the past-and I have said we needed to work on them. His response was "I'm not a therapy sort of guy"-even now, he thinks he's figuring it out in his head.
Then I got cancer and was off work for a year. Really in debt. Went back to work and picked up tons of overtime trying to get things paid. (last 4 years). His complaint around that is-I missed to many events with his family, and the house is a mess. Well, really, if you were supportive at all, you'd pick up some slack.
My issues? Communication as well-I tend to clam when unhappy. Inability to freely express love (really emotionally repressed family), Inability to ask for what I want/need-I expect other to notice. I am a fixer.
He at least acknowledges he should have paid more attention to money. His sister was shocked when he didn't even know what our mortgage payment was. He would have been happier with a 1950's housewife on Ativan I think.
He won't introspect.
These things could have been dealt with at molehill size. I don't know though if they really play into whats going on now, or if they are excuses.
I read this and wonder why I even bother.
I'm working on detachment. He still has this plan of 4 days at his sister while working/4 days here while off. "we need to get firewood in and the driveway needs ploughing". I don't know when he plans to live this wild single life he apparently has told people he wants to live. He's joint owner on the house. Once we have the finances straightened out (back to bank on 15th-they have options for us)-and the separation agreement signed, including that I get to stay until next year-for the animals, get house ready for sale etc....I really want him to move out at this point. His plan is cake-eating at it's best I'm thinking. He has never lived on his own-went from family home to me.
Barb
If a person is having a breakdown in mid life due to unresolved past trauma, it has little to do with the spouse
yes we may have been human, and not been perfect in the M, but as you have stated he did less than his share in the M in many ways
Knowing this, lets us off the hook
When we notice, our MLCer getting worse in time after they left and have gotten the dream they went after, that also makes it clear that we are dealing with a person who is not fully stable
no one can make another person healthy, it is an individual choice
I like your plan to detach and use the year to become the best year..therapy helps us heal
divorce busting gives us great new skills
alanon is a fabulous program as well with many phone meetings to listen and learn to cope with the unacceptable
Hang in there you are doing well
this is a long healing process for the LBS with many twists and turns
As long as he's doing 4 at his sister's and 4 at the house he's not spending money on rent, which is probably good for your finances. I'd take advantage of the freedom afforded by him being there 4 days a week to spend the night at a girlfriend's, or go out late, or spend the night visiting your dad. Or go out of town for a few days! Let him wonder about your busy interesting life.
As for his complaints about you - you know most of them are not based in reality. And how much of the debt was really due to your cancer versus to his spending on toys I'd like to know? (Btw my boyfriend has lung cancer, it's an f-ing full time job going through cancer treatment, so don't beat yourself up about it.)
And btw - although the emphasis here is usually on how to repair the marriage, I just want you to know that it is also OK to say "he betrayed me and broke his vows and I don't feel obligated anymore." Everyone has to decide for themselves whether the marriage is worth repairing and once the partner has broken their vows I don't feel you have to be obligated to stay in the marriage unless YOU want to and think there is hope. Sometimes the flaws in the marriage that we were putting up with for the sake of our marriage vows become more visible with a little space. And sometimes how a partner responds during a health crisis is very telling . (I have a friend who just moved out from her long-time partner. She had ovarian cancer last year and he didn't show up to pick her up after surgery until hours later! EXTREMELY unsupportive throughout her treatment so now that she's better, she's out of there.
Thanks all. I'm signing off I think. This is one divorce that isn't going to be busted. We talked about the separation agreement tonight, and he has been such an a hole that I don't want him back. Apparently we were done 15 years ago, and I know it's been years since he put any effort in. Thanks to him, my life is blown up at 58 years old. He sat there tonight and was so cold and callous and then had the nerve to tell me that i shouldn't sound so p!ssed off. Done. Can't be done soon enough. The scales have fallen from my eyes.
Good luck to everyone.
BarbH,
If he told you that he was done 15 years ago, that could very well be the depression talking. The MLCers say that they have been unhappy one year, two years and even all the way back to when you got married. They truly do not know what is making them so unhappy. Yes, that cold and callous way of presenting themselves is very normal for crisis people. They have to be that way because they do not want us trying to convince them that they are wrong in what they are doing. They truly have no sense of how we feel and quite frankly, at this time, do not care. They want their freedom to seek out that illusive happiness. In their minds, the relationship and us are the problems and that if they can break free of us, then happiness will return. However, they will be happy for a very short period of time and then move on to the next thing to try to see if that happy feeling will return. They will hit that brick wall many times over and once it's done, it's done and hopefully they can begin to heal and face those demons from long ago.
You may be done, but I do not think your situation is over. Please continue to post so that we can assist you in your healing. Come here to vent and express yourself. We are hear for you no matter what.
Barb,
Im sorry..
None of us asked for this yet we are here--
all I can say is It will continue to get better especially as you grieve the loss and find forgiveness
Your H actions have little to do with you-
I saw my XH leave and create a much worse life with his OW than he had with me..it is something in them
and you will probably see it as time moves on..It was never you-
Hang in there--
Thank you all. It doesn't help that I'm dealing with my own depression. I'm sitting here this morning and honestly it's so painful again I can hardly breath. He's friendly one day, cold and callous the next. I think deep down he does realize he's blown everything up, but can't find his way out. I want to help him, but i'm so angry that is what gets expressed.
Job-I know it's not over. his stuff at least is still here and he will be back. I assume by that point we won't be talking. It will be so strange as we have finances still and house to deal with furniture etc. I can't believe i'm feeling this much pain again. I will continue to post.
I just try but do not understand how deep he is. This is going to be a day I spend in bed crying. Then go to work tonight. I look at my dog, and my horses, and my cats, most of whom I can't keep depending on my living situtaiton. I don't want to stay up here in the winter. I still don't know what's going on.
I just know I hurt so much. And I hurt him again too.
I clearly can't emotionally detach. I am exhausted by this already.
Job, are you saying our situation isn't done-do you think he will continue to touch and go? or is it just that we still have the house.
Your story is not over. There are many pages left to be written. Why do I say that? Because we all have been through what you are going through and it takes many, many months for these nuts to crack open and face their issues. Sure, he may become distant and cold, but I can assure you, he will contact you again when he's ready or if he needs something. They also tend to come out of the woodwork around holidays. You may get text and/or email messages or phone calls. He may contact you and want to get together or come by the house to see the animals. He may use the animals as an excuse to come check up on you. Even though he may be distant, he will become curious as to what you are doing, etc. If you are on FB, try to keep some mystery as to what you are doing w/your life. The less pressure you put on him, the better. If he thinks that your home is a safe place to land and you aren't discussing the relationship, he may come around a bit. Try to remember this...the more you push, the harder he will pull away.
Your h may come over, walk around the place to see if another man has come into your life, i.e., like marking his territory. He may not take all of his stuff. He may seen something and just take it. Some take things that make absolutely not sense. One man took the steps to his shed and didn't bring them back until he had come through his crisis. Another man took the chair to his child's desk. Some take towels, pencils, mugs counter top appliances, etc. This stuff makes no sense to us, but it does to them at that time.
Everyone deals w/this type of situation in differently because we are all unique, but when it comes to the MLCer, they have very similar traits and behaviors. You may feel like you are done today, but tomorrow is another day. Right now, you feel like there is no hope, but there is always that one chance he may come to his senses sooner than later. You are still very raw and emotional and that is understandable. Give yourself some time to settle down. You want to be calm and collected when making major decisions. Doing them in the heat of the moment will only cause you more grief because that is when we say or do things that we can't take back. If you are angry or hurt, give yourself 24-48 hours to settle down before making decisions.
Barb, I would certainly think long and hard about separating your finances, but I wouldn't push the issue on the furniture and the house. He may decide that he wants you to stay there and help you w/the bills. Some will do that. If he is so hot to trot for a divorce, then allow him to do all of the necessary work. If I were you, I would make certain that I know what my rights are and what you are entitled to...but do not share that info w/him. That is info you need to keep to yourself.
You and only you can determine when you have had enough and want to completely walk away. But, I don't think you are at that point just yet..
Thanks Job. He has already said he wants me to stay for a year. and help with the bills and talk to bank about refinancing etc. I keep waffling on it for a few reasons: it's a long way out of town, long winters, need new reliable car. I can't get an answer out of him about why he wants me to stay. Other than his crazy cake eating plan of going back and forth. we have separated out finances, i am not responsible for his visa card and new mountain bike.
The thing is, when I realize how much of his baggage I've been dragging along over the years, and how I've carried the marjority of the load with no recognition, I'm not sure within myself if any of this is worth it. Or if I should just cut my losses and leave. I grapple with this daily. At my age, how much longer do I want to devote to this? After our talk last night (where he accused me of being "curt") I'm having so much trouble with detachment. After he left, I went to bed and cried. Couldn't even get up this morning. I was flattened until now. and it's 4 pm.
Do you think he is so far gone that I can risk asking him about the 1 year? Why he wants me to stay? Last night's talk did not go well. He just sits there stone cold and blames me for everything. If I didn't have the animals I would walk. They are essentially the only thing keeping me here. Do you think there might be any chance at any honesty?
Face to face question? or email? Text? he reads my texts.
I'm only hot to trot to get the separation agreement done. Then I can file it at the courthouse. If he reneges on payments, I have an avenue.
Need to be separated for a year to get a bench divorce.
You can ask him, but I seriously doubt that you will get an honest answer as to why he wants to stay a year. There could be any number of reasons why he stated the one year live in time period. I'll share some of those reasons, but keep in mind, he is the only one that knows why. It could be that he figures that in one year he can get his ducks in a row financially and locate a new place to live; it could be that he thinks a year is all he needs to get himself back on track; or it could be that he has found someone and they can't move in together until her divorce is final and last but not least, he thinks that a year will give you time to adjust to the fact that you both are going your separate ways and gives you time to locate a new place and homes for the animals.
However, I would most definitely get an agreement in place as soon as possible. As I stated before, you will know when you've had enough and want to move forward in a different direction.
Barb
Unfortunately, there is no way to know what he will do
so It may be a wise plan to take at least 6 months to a year and work on you
Heal , let him go to figure his life out
you get some support and therapy and do the grief work which you have been already doing
journel and find ways to soothe your pain..it is hard for a few months
then the pain lessens, more and more as we let go
so even if you leave things as they are, you let him come and go and your full intent is to heal you
during this grieving time, you can go out, make friends, join groups ect
learn to play a sport or dance or hike ect
and be willing to TRUST the process
trusting is the key-
your life will not let you down you are guided and will be lead if you trust
find faith, god, or whatever may help you in this
remember you are not alone
we have all been there and will support you in your letting go-
Thanks guys. I'm not asking him. It's not his decision to make. He no longer has sway over my decisions, my decisions are for me. I suspect it would be combination of he thinks I'll wait a year + rehoming animals. This has been so difficult. The hardest part is giving up that picture of what retirement and our future should have looked like, and coming to the realization that it is now an entirely different thing. Scary. I think Job is right and he will continue to check in. I also feel like we aren't done no matter what I'm saying now. I need to detach, detach, detach and keep getting my life.
Thank you all for the support. Part of me feels so badly for him and the mess he has become.
Funny, after all the "positive" conversation of last week, nothing since I gave him a draft separation agreement.
That does not surprise me-
reality sinking in for him
and it may not look good from his angle
MY xh got crazy during the D when he saw I was going to protect my kids and assets
I was fair and within my legal rights
but
it becomes a business deal and my life and the future of my children came before him and his OW
Truth is my XH didnt want any adult responsibilities when in crises and he didnt care about the assets
he only wanted freedom so he exchanged everything including his kids to be free
the OW =freedom to him because he could be himself with her and live a life in replay with drugs/alcohol
gambling with no one to answer to because she was just like him -
12 years later..he is still doing that..miserable addicted and broke-
I am not at all surprised that you've heard nothing but "crickets" since you gave him the draft separation. Many of them will kick and scream that they want a divorce and when presented w/the paperwork they go silent.
My xh wanted a separation or divorce, whichever one came first, per him. I had the draft papers written up and gave him his copy. He went from a somewhat nice person to a monster after he read the draft papers. Apparently he thought I would roll over and give him everything. I have never seen a person get so nasty and angry just because they were getting what they wanted.
Like Peace's xh, my xh wanted to drink, party and hang out w/his ow. He spent money like water until he ow, who became his wife) was diagnosed w/cancer. While she was in hospice, he had already found his next target.
In my case, my xh will never wake up and grow up. He will continue to self medicate and run. He will never accept responsibility for his actions. I continue to live my life for me and once those divorce papers were stamped, a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders and I have never looked by.
Bottom line, try to live your life as if he may not return. You only have one life...live it the fullest. Life doesn't wait for us...we have to continue moving forward or we will become stuck.
Funny, after all the "positive" conversation of last week, nothing since I gave him a draft separation agreement.
This is typical. My W has had several brief moments of "clarity" and each one was self-serving for her. Her behaviors ranged from happiness, sadness, tears, hugging, etc... her gain would be money, stalling divorce so she could have medical insurance, a place to live for free, and so on. She almost compromised our home sale over $500. The realtor said she had never seen such behavior. They will stop at nothing, use people for their own good in order to find their greener pasture. Don't invest in any more emotional conversations. Let him deal with his demons by himself.
Thank you all. He's coming home tomorrow to discuss the separation agreement he has some "questions' so we will see how that goes. It's a 50/50 split. I keep the farm over the winter, get the work done, probably sell in the spring. He can still come and go from the guest room. Pays half expenses, gets 1/2 the proceeds. I'm now emotionally able to handle this. He's staying overnight with the dog, and I am going away to visit relatives.
My nephews (on his side) stopped in today-and even they said "nobody knows what's going on with him" His big family reunion/fishing derby was last weekend, and he usually is there for 3 days-visiting everyone. He was there about 3 hours, and left. Didn't even visit his nephews and his favourite cousin. So sad. I hope he copes with his 60th birthday in a week okay.
I love him, but I am becoming so incredibly distanced.
OMG he's coming up today for more separation agreement talk, and I am so incredibly nervous. I don't actually know what is left to talk about, but seriously so much seems to come from left field. I have to remember to not get drawn into "what went wrong" conversations like I did last time. Detach, detach, validate and not give ground. Really, our agreement is a 50/50 split. But he's not going to like the spousal RRSP rollover he's required to give me. Years ago I attempted to start a home based business, which used up my savings. This will be thrown up at me again. Despite the fact we were doing it to have something in retirement for both of us. I will go for walk with neighbour and dog this morning, All this up and downing is killing me. And he sounds so upbeat on the phone.
Wish me luck. Wish me keeping my cool. Wish me standing my ground-in a lovely detached manner. Wish me all these things. Wish me out of this nightmare.
Get a rubber band and place it on your wrist and every time you are tempted to get off course and discuss relationship stuff...snap that band! Also, listen, listen and listen. He may attempt to provoke you into a disagreement...do not take his bait or drink his cool aid today. Do not agree to anything because he will hold it over your head. If he wants decisions, advise him that you have to think about it and will get back to him w/your responses.
Look at his as a business partner who has walked away from a joint business deal.
Good luck and keep calm, speak to him in a calm voice and look him in the eye when you speak to him.
Don't discuss anything you're uncomfortable with.
Don't sign anything
Don't get drawn into emotional conversations
Don't get drawn in by tears and manipulation
Take control of the conversation and pause before you answer.
If it becomes overwhelming, just leave.
Best of luck
Thanks guys. He's late, as usual. Off to find a rubber band. Great idea.
I actually have suitcase in the car already too as I'm leaving for overnight right after we're done here.
Well I guess I’m not done as here I am on my phone at my aunts in the middle of the night. What do I make of this if? He shows up and wonders why I haven’t left already. Because he had told me he had questions about the separation agreement but when I said that it sounds as if he hasn’t even read it! Never mind have any input. A little chitchat very litttle and off I went. I can’t even validate anything as he doesn’t even say anything. So he’s dragging his feet (clearly) on the separation, talks to me like I’m the pizza delivery guy. No iota of curiosity where I’m going. Really if you want out, why isn’t he even looking at the agreement? Never mind getting dragged into his drama there is none. His affect is so flat around me I can only think he’s totally done. So why not get on with it? Two weeks ago tears and now this. I think he’s totally done with me and like I say there hasn’t even been a reason just “this marriage was over 15 years ago. It’s tough to be upbeat etc around him when there literally is no conversational opening. I’m still hopeful I guess but it’s weird feeling like I am essentially wallpaper.
I know how you feel because that is the way my xh was, i.e., so detached it wasn't funny. You have to remember that they detached a long time ago, i.e., long before the bomb drop So, he's ahead of you by a few months. It's going to take you awhile to detach more...but I know you can do this.
I wasn't surprised that he had nothing to say and appeared not to have read it. Their minds are a jumbled mess and they truly cannot focus on any one thing for very long. When something comes along to distract them, well....the important stuff then sits.
Let's face it, he's an emotional mess right now and it's going to be many months before he can get it together. I would continue to move forward and if he truly has something to say about the separation agreement, he will come forward. Do what you need to do and do not allow him to drag you down.
Thanks job. It’s all just so bizarre to me. I know I’m using this board like a journal but honestly if I talk to people around me nobody seems to understand what I’m saying. Even my divorced friends circumstances were different and they had ex’s that wanted to get it done. So their advice is “make him sign”. Well how do I do that? 3000 for the lawyer to do essentially a 50/50 simple agreement? I am trying to rise above the confusion. But nothing makes sense. Marriage done 15 yrs ago. But no hurry to move his stuff out or sign agreements. Okay at least for now with me simply telling what his share of bills are and transferring money. I’m sure this will stop at some point so really need the agreement filed at court. When he treats me like wallpaper I’m sure we are totally done. I still think way way back in his mind I’m still plan b. I’m sure he’s out there right now looking for plan a. He says we will talk about it Wednesday after work. We will see. Otherwise I will book a mediator and we can do it there.
Do not be surprised if he does show up Wednesday or may even be late. They don't do well in doing what they say they will do. Keep your expectations at zero when it comes to him saying and doing things. His actions will speak louder than words.
When it comes to divorce, the MLC/walkaway divorces can be very different from a "normal" divorce. Many people do not understand this unless they have walked in your shoes.
Dig deeper for patience. I think you are doing quite well.
Few people understand the depth of MLC. I think it is a cause of a tremendous amount of divorces, and it slips under the radar. Friends and people in the community unlikely know much about it unless it happened to them.
Start placing the onus on him for the divorce process. Have an agreed time to meet. If he bails, it will be on him. One word of caution with regards to hurrying the process: he may have hidden assets and/or debts. If you do this yourself, have him give you a notarized inventory and request to see all statements. My W charged almost $20k on a credit card in 4 months time. I knew nothing about it until the inventory. He may want to hurry in order to benefit himself. Be cautious, this is the rest of your life at hand here.
a lot of MLCers balk at the D process
they take their time usually until, it benefits them or the oW pressures them possibly
I would as Job says keep expectations at zero and continue to protect your assets
some stop paying as time goes on or as Hamburg says they rack up debt
MY xh paid me every week during the separation
I thought my situation was different..
but what I didnt realize was he was paying me with business funds and not paying vendors racking up debt in our business while supporting OW and living on the beach with her-
she was also charging lots of stuff and the business was paying it off
all of this I found out later..after the business was in the red-
be aware and alert..they are tricky, and they lie a l ot
Some people will not understand the MLc process but many will
especially if they had one
Most people will give advice from their perspective and their experience with D
Thanks again all: He doesn't have hidden assets, he doesn't even know what assets he has! I am worried he will run up debts, hook up with someone else and then stop paying his share here. I do not have the resources to carry this place. We need to be separated for a year before divorce, so this is just the separation agreement, but it will dictate how assets are split during the divorce. I see he's taken the boat. But I have pictures of it. So I think I will call my sister-in-law, and suggest that Don and I meet there after I get off work on Wednesday. Honestly I think he's so messed up that he thinks by not dealing it's not "real" and he can come back. Don't know why he would want to when he's clearly in a place right now where he can't even be in the room with me.
Oh yes, hamburg-I really now believe nothing of what he says. I'm talking to the bank tomorrow re: the refinance and paying out of debts. Then if I can handle the mortgage-he can leave. Though I think this bouncing back and forth is already wearing thin for him.
Oh Hamburg-I just read all your threads. You have certainly been through the wringer, and you know of what you speak. Thank you again for your hard earned and valuable insight. Don has gone totally dark on me. He's even timing his "visits" home for when he thinks I'm not here. Is he just totally spooked by the idea of a separation agreement? It's for his protection as much as mine. I could just as easily stop paying the mortgage too..I just crunched all the numbers if he backs out of paying anything...looks like I'll be working overtime to make ends meet. But I was before, so really, what's new?
Yeah it has been quite the journey. I owe most everything to the folks here. They are great!
I don't know what is going through his, or any other MLC'er heads. I do know that they are thinking for the moment and not the future. They are not equipped to contemplate major decisions and the consequences. He will likely punt it to you, therefore reducing the blame/burden on himself. I do feel that they may not necessarily want these consequences but that little spark takes over and they must do anything to fulfill their fantasies.
Well, I think some reality is hitting. We were supposed to talk about sep. agreement last night. He texted and asked for all of our log in banking information, including my credit cards! I said no. I told him I've listed out the debts as of June 19 (sep. day). I told him I would continue to send him the applicable statements while we are still splitting the payment load. Then he said "I'm trying to get my head around the finances". and "I can't meet tonight, its very stressful regarding the money situation, not in a good frame of mind". I've been trying to talk to him about finances for the past 5 years.
my answer "Fair enough, yes we can certainly agree on the stress level! I still think if we can swing some kind of refinance it gets us both some space." He agreed. I told him I'm meeting with our bank on saturday. his answer "OK. Keep me posted. I am back at work tomorrow".
then he asked how I came up with the June 19 separation date! This date is etched in my mind. It was when we were supposed to start counselling, and instead I got the "I love you but there's no spark" speech and "we're done". I told him "that's the date we met up and you said we were done". No reply.
I actually thought this was some reasonably decent conversation. I also think now that he's finally looked at the numbers it's quite the reality check. I don't know if he'll ever look back and admit this is also his issue...and that's why I was working so much overtime. (which he blamed me for! not enough time spent with his family!) It's actually a relief to finally have dumped some of this load and stress over to him. I'm sure his sister is on his case. She is aware (from our previous conversations) how little interest/discussion he ever took in our money.
But, this morning, I'm in a spot where I need to talk. I woke up in the night and thought "once we've done this agreement, and the financials, there's no reason for us to stay in touch". So even though I said this divorce wasn't going to be busted, I still have hope. I don't want to lose touch with him. I know it's his journey. There's part of me that's still thinking "we can do this". I don't know how much of this is MLC, and how much is just unhappy WAS. Either way, I know, I have to do the same things. GAL, PMA etc. But I'm seriously feeling down this morning. Had trouble getting out of bed.
I would be cautious about anything he is requesting. Even if he's not financially ready, it will not hinder the process nor wake him up. He may want to see your information to convince himself he can do it alone. If it were me, I would spin it back to him and say you will share records with the lawyer after he does so.
You are great to want to stay in touch. I did that for a few months and could not handle it emotionally anymore, so I went dark. I couldn't be witness to the insanity, participate in the drama, nor see her destroy her life. If you are unable to hang on, he will eventually come back (perhaps as just a friend). This may take years though.
For sure cautious. I didn't give him any log in information. Right now we are splitting all the bills 50/50 and that includes credit card debt and line of credit payments. I will share the statements, but I'm not sharing login. I am talking to my bank on Saturday-looks like they will refi our mortgage and we can pay out all the consumer debt. Then life becomes simpler. He stills wants me to stay here for a year-and our agreement stipulates 50/50 payment mortgage, utilities, insurance. Gives me the opportunity to get the property and house organized for sale, and buys me some time so I don't do anything rash. So I guess we will still be in touch re the house. He's saying things like "we need to get firewood in for the winter", and "if I want to stay in town while I'm working my shifts, he'll come stay with the dog". Whether that's true or not, I have no idea.
Sometimes I think maybe it's the truth that he does just find it too much here, and wants some time away to sort his head out. But then I think of some of the things he's said and done lately, and how he and everyone around him just keeps saying "he's confused" and I just don't know.
It's his 60th tomorrow. Do I acknowledge it? Text message?
Time will tell just how much he will help out. I would consider a Plan B for those things, i.e., such as dog sitting, arranging for firewood, etc.
I would send a simple text of "Happy Birthday" and leave it at that.
Just came home after night shift. His birthday is weighing on my mind. 60-and we were going to start retirement. Instead here I am, depressed as all get out today, teary and sad. It feels like my heart is ripping out of my chest. There's no one else to talk to at this time of the day, so here I am. I just need to tell someone. I wish I could fast forward a year and be in a better place, or I wish that he'd come back. Bedtime, then dog walk, then girlfriends tonight for crib. You know you're getting old when the big Friday night is a girl's crib night. I'm afraid even saying "Happy Birthday" might be interpreted as sarcasm. I'm afraid not acknowledging is interpreted as not caring at all. I never thought saying Happy Birthday to my husband would be an issue.
Sent a text: "Happy Birthday. (and I mean this with all sincerity)"
I got back "thank you".
good enough.
That is all you needed to say.
You can come here day or night and someone is always around. We have walked the path that you are on at this very moment. Some are just beginning and others are much further along and then us, old timers crossed the finished line a while ago and remain here to help others.
Cry, scream, beat the stuffing out of a pillow or whatever works to help you work through the hurt.
Hang in there! You will get through this, but it's going to take some time to do so.
Yup
Job is right...we are here and have been there
I dont blame you for wanting to fast forward
but this time right now --- although in deep grief can be very special too-
Hang in
Thanks again for being here. It's only been 2 months since BD#2. I think i have it sort of together and then I fall apart again. So many questions, and so few answers. I just know he's getting farther and farther away. I know from reading everyone's threads that the drifting away is what happens/what needs to happen. It's just so incredibly painful to have all our years gone without any effort on his part. I know I shouldn't be looking for logic, but it's just that I've been rejected for some nebulous dream of his. I'm bracing myself for him finding a PA. I don't think that's happened yet, but it's probably coming, right? All his nice words about "needing space" and "trying to find a path back" were just that, words.
Now that he's finally coming face to face with our financial picture, which I have been trying to deal with and talk to him about for 6 years-I feel like this will be another black mark against me. He won't be able to see what his contribution was to this at all. All I heard about last time was how I "wouldn't let him buy another snowmobile or build a cabin at the property"....it all just feels so unfair. Ha but nothing is fair is it?
I'm sure once financing is sorted out, he'll be moving out for good. I know i said I was done, and Job, I think it was you that said "it's not over". Words of wisdom for sure. I am simultaneously sad/wishful/hopeful/aching.
New counsellor on the 27th. (last one not covered by my benefits). I'm not even sure what I want to deal with. So much loss in my life the past few years. She's pro-marriage, pro-short term goal directed therapy, which at one point he said he was interested in trying. Then he said "but it's all artificial" so no.
Peacetoday-I will hang in. I just miss him so much. I never thought I was this needy a person. I want the man I married back, my best friend. I want to rebuild our marriage stronger and better. But....I know I need to build myself stronger and better.
I am blabbing away now.
Barb,
It's time to start a new thread. Your thread has reached the 100 posting/reply limit. If you aren't sure how to link your threads, I'll be happy to assist you in the linking process.
Thank Job, yes, please help me link the threads. Do I need to start my new one first?
Yes, start a new one first. Here is the link that will explain how to link threads. If you aren't sure, just start a new thread and I'll link them both for you.
How To Link Threads