My first thread:
So so new to this 
I don't know where I would be without this forum and all you wonderful, wonderful people in here. The support I get from here is so much better than what I get from my friends and family, so I've stoppend talking to them about my situation and come here whenever I need anything.
Like someone earlier mentioned to me, if you have no experience of MLC you can't possibly understand a stander. Everyone around me tells me to start dating, go and try it out, you're still so young, blaah, blaah, blaah. I have nothing against dating and people who date while standing, but when in my heart I know that at this moment there's no room for new people, I shouldn't date. It would not be right for me and especially to the new person. So I kindly ask them to get off my back about it, I'm not ready. I mean my goodness, his side of the bed is still warm.
Thank you DnJ and Peacetoday for your input on the kids visitation issue <3 <3 <3 I sent the email you edited to my H and in his reply he remarked that isn't visitation schedule a bit official. I haven't replied to that, nor will I. He also wrote that he had talked with D12 and she would be willing to come and try staying at his house. I need to talk with D12 as well. I think her fear of losing her father causes her not to ba able to say what she means to him. And so she tries to please him in any way. Poor child. D14 is still in my hometown with her cousins, she won't be back home until late July. After we moved to Spain she has spent the summers in my hometown with family. And this year she even more reluctant to come home.
I read somewhere that children whose parents had a lowconflict marriage suffer more from a divorde than other children. I wonder if that is so. We had a very lowconflict marriage, so I worry.
When I was 19, I was an Au pair in the States and I read a poem that some had asked Dear Abby about. I remember I immediately fell in love with that poem and I clipped it out and saved it. I still have it between my cookbook, and ran into it yesterday. It is so appropiate right now, I wanted to share it with you.
After A While
Author: Veronica A. Shoffstall
After a while you learn the subtle difference
Between holding a hand and chaining a soul,
And you learn that love doesn’t mean leaning
And company doesn’t mean security,
And you begin to learn that kisses aren’t contracts
And presents aren’t promises.
And you begin to accept your defeats
With your head up and your eyes open
With the grace of a woman, not the grief of a child.
And you learn to build all your roads on today,
Because tomorrow’s ground is too uncertain for plans,
And futures have a way of falling down in mid-flight.
After a while you learn
That even sunshine burns if you get too much.
So you plant your own garden and decorate your own soul,
Instead of waiting for someone to bring you flowers.
And you learn that you really can endure,
That you really are strong,
And you really do have worth.
And you learn and learn,
With every goodbye you learn.
I have been thinking in the past few days about my husband and our marriage and how unfair this situation is to everyone except for him. I saw it in my D12 eyes again today when she called him to ask for a ride somewhere and he said he couldn’t drive her, when she asked why, he just said he couldn’t. So obviously he has plans with the OW. It’s always moments like this that makes my blood boil. And here’s what I’m thinking.
I really want to lash out. I want to tell him exactly what I think of him, his behavior and his OW. How he has completely destroyed our kids lives and mine (well and his) and what a coward and a disappointment he is to everyone he knows. How people laugh behind his back about him and what he’s done. I want to hurt him like he’s hurt me and the kids. I want him to hurt so badly.
I’ve only lost my cool with him once and that was just before Easter, after that I’ve swallowed my anger and vented here. I’m worried that since I can’t tell him how I feel eventually it will blow in his face. Most likely if and when I decide that I’m done standing. I have headaches when I’m angry because it’s all building up inside of me.
So again I’m asking, why do I have to suffer all this, when he’s the cause? He’s hurt me enough and keeping all this in hurts me more. Shouldn’t I direct all this anger where it should go? I don’t know if I’m angry, sad or frustrated right now. It always stirs me up when I see the hurt in my kids.
Nyla - I'm so sorry you are hurting. You are not alone in your emotions, changing from day to day, moment to moment. If you have seen my thread, you will see I go through the exact same thing.
You need to find your own outlet. For me, it was inviting friends out any day of the week I could (especially in the beginning), exercising, pursing activities I love, and diving into my faith. They were all life-lines. Sometimes I just yelled at God. I believe he listens to me.
So again I’m asking, why do I have to suffer all this, when he’s the cause? He’s hurt me enough and keeping all this in hurts me more. Shouldn’t I direct all this anger where it should go? I don’t know if I’m angry, sad or frustrated right now.
That is the unfairness of it all. They are the ones blowing everything up, and we are the in the cross-fire. Venting here, to trusted friends, and if you are of faith, to God, are all places I used to get me through 10 months. I have decided it's the time in my journey to tell my H that his girlfriend is not o.k. and my silence about it is not saying it's o.k. I will probably post about my meeting with him after tomorrow. Only you can decide when, or if, that is something you want to do. But you must be prepared for any outcome after you do. I have decided I am.
It always stirs me up when I see the hurt in my kids.
This is the worst of the whole sitch, IMO. My kids are older (19 and 21) but hurting none-the-less. I am solid around them, but it is exhausting sometimes. Just be present for them with lots of affirmations, hugs, and understanding. That's all we have control over.
(((Nyla)))
Grace
Sometimes I remind myself that people live through wars, famine, disease, cancer, gulags. Life hands us a lot of suffering. It's how you bear it that defines you.
You might have to lash out at him. I think we've all done it. It won't change anything and it will probably make you feel worse because he will not understand you. It will only prove to him that you are just what he thought you were.
I think it's impossible to listen to the old timers telling you to let him go. I thought I did that but I didn't realize until now, seven years in, that I am only now letting him go. And it's not because I wanted to or tried. He just got so disgusting that there was nothing to hold on to anymore. The only way he could come back is if the scales came off his eyes, and there is nothing I can do to cause that to happen. Think of DnJ, Gordie, Grace, SBJ, sjohn, all the wonderful people you know here. Do you think they are any less worthy than you of not being hurt in this way?
We are living through a tragedy. It hurts. It burns. If your pot boils over from all that burning, and boils over at your H, it boils over. Maybe you aren't strong enough right now to keep it from boiling in his direction. That's okay. We're just trying to tell you that the only one who will get scalded is you. And that we'll be here to put some nice cool aloe on your burn marks, because we got burned in the same way and as a result we got the aloe ready for our own burns and are glad to share it.
A book I am reading now is Father Arseny, 1893-1973: Priest, Prisoner, Spiritual Father... I know you are not religious but this book is an incredible story of this renowned art historian who became a priest and ended up in the gulags. It has taught me a lot about patience and about bearing suffering. In fact my son who is such a mess has been asking me to read it to him every night because he asked me to read to him when I was reading it and got really hooked. And he is not a believer, my son, I mean. And is a mess. But this book is very powerful and a gentle read. Maybe you can try it.
And by the way, your H might not have had something with the OW. He might just be a selfish jerk right now who doesn't like to be needed. Scratch that "might." My H refuses ALL THE TIME to do anything for my kids and has paid for nothing in seven years. He even took all the money out of my D's wallet twice in her life, and I had to replace it so she would stop asking him for it as it was causing her so much anxiety. That didn't wake him up, Nyla. My getting cancer didn't wake him up. My son shoplifting, being suicidal, running away from home, and now refusing to see him or speak to him did not wake my H up. He still thinks it's me. Boil over if you want, but it won't do anything to change him. Only God or the universe or time can change your H. Your only option is to live a life on your own until then or to give up your stand and not keep the door open.
We love you and we understand your pain, Nyla. It's not fair. But you are in the right place to help your kids through this tragedy and get them to the other side. That's what you are here for now. Your life has meaning and beauty for you to find, even if your H has rejected you and all you planned for your life. You are not condemned to this h*ll. Only your H is, because he made it for himself. You just have to walk through the fire and pull your kids through it, there is a beautiful garden beyond it! (Believe me, I need the same pep talk!) XOXOXO
Nyla,
We all have had days whereby we want to lash out and shake some sense into them to make them see what they are doing. Lashing out will only make you feel a bit better but then the anger will bubble up again when you see that he is even more determined to do what he wants, when he wants and w/whom he wants. They become tone deaf and do not, or should I say will not acknowledge what we are pointing out to them. They do care deep down, but that "urge" to see that illusive happiness is far too strong and the guilt/shame of what they know is wrong, but cannot even think of stopping will keep them going in the wrong direction.
Long before I knew about this forum, I made many attempts to shake some sense into my xh by trying to rationalize w/him, lashing out and attempting to have "deep" conversations w/him. Nothing worked. The more I attempted to get him to see reason, the nastier he got until I completely backed off and trust me, I hated his behavior because it was unbecoming and was not him. I knew, that for my own sanity, I had to let him go. Over the next few years, he was a nasty/angry man who tried ever trick in the book to drive me nuts and to give him what he wanted, i.e., a divorce and quite a bit of money. After we were divorced, he disappeared from my life for about 3 years and because of some tragic circumstances, he reappeared for a bit. His anger was gone, but he wasn't the same man that I knew so long ago. He thought by being nice that I would give him anything he asked from my home. When I would not, he because a spoiled and angry child once again. The crisis never ended from him and he's still seeking that illusive happiness and I truly have let him go because my life, my health and my happiness were far more important than dealing with anger and uncertainty each and every day.
Nyla, what I'm attempting to say is this...when you are ready and the time is right, you will lovingly let him go. That doesn't mean that he won't return, but it does mean that you will feel less stress and you will begin to see life as the glass half full again. You will be able to focus completely on you and your family and if he comes again, you will learn how to communicate w/him in a way that he will understand that actions have consequences and yes, he will see what he has lost.
You are a great mother who has a lot to deal w/at the moment, but you are right where you need to be and God will help guide you through this. When you are ready, turn it over to God and allow him to work on your h. You can't drive the bus and tend to your children and yourself at the same time. Give it to God and he will watch over him and heal him.
Hi Nyla - you are receiving excellent advice and you are doing very well.
Personally, I would not push the visitation schedule unless your kids are asking for it. He is all messed up so the less time they have with him the better. My ex was such a lost, confused mess the first 2 years post BD.
Curious, have you considered therapy for your kids? It might help to talk some of this through, even if it’s just a few sessions to learn different coping mechanisms. Is there a plan for D12’s academics? Here in the US, when my h went off the deep end, a therapist told me drop in grades would be something that required addressing.
Being years out from all this MLC mess, I promise you will survive this. My strong advice is to take the focus off him because you cannot do a thing for him. Protect your finances, separate these ASAP as it sounds like he is spending on OW and that is money for your kids.
Focus like a laser on your kids: helping D14 to work through (her very normal) anger in a healthy way, D12 keeping grades up and learning it is not her job to make her dad happy and s10 that this has nothing to do with him as you mentioned they are close.
Remember, he is a married man. No healthy woman is interested in that. He is broken and he’ll attract the same. Sounds like she is young. She may want to get herself pregnant. Protect your finances.
Let him twist in the wind. Continue to focus on yourself so that no matter what you come out of this stronger. You can stand but standing does not mean standing still.
Hello Nyla
I’ve been reading along, just haven’t had opportunity to post anything. Too busy!
You are so right. People that have not had any experience with MLC, really do not get it. This MLC is something else - isn’t it?
...it kind of caused me to turn away from God. And now I feel that it would be hypocritical to try to find Him again, just because I need Him. I don’t even know if that makes sense.
When I read this days ago, it was - yes that makes sense.
If I may. It is not hypocritical. And you do not need to try to find God. He will help. He wants to help. You just need to let him, to be willing to accept His guidance.
God has never left you. (IMHO) Turn back, listen, walk in the light, and find peace. (((Nyla)))
DnJ
Yikes, I went to see my H tonight to talk about the kids.
I was quite annoyed with him when I went, but was able to shake it off and be pleasant with him. We actually had a nice conversation for the longest time before we started to talk about the kids and a lot of eye contact from him. I said to him that I would either prefer that he spends time with the kids regulary or not at all, because the irregularity is so much harder on them. And he wants to spend time with them more. I told him about our son crying on Sunday because he misses him and it got him a bit emotional.
In the end of our sitting down, I asked him are you doing ok? He said no he’s not. I said that you know if you ever need to talk, I’m always here. He said he wouldn’t know how to even start, and was quiet for a long time. I said it’s quite easy, you just tell me I need to talk and I’ll listen. He kind of laughed about it but continued that he wouldn’t know where to start talking. So I didn’t want to push more and I said whenever and if you’re ready, I’m here to listen.
Then we started to walk to my car and for some reason we started to talk about S10 again and I told him how I had told S10 that it is good that he cried and talked about his feelings to me on Sunday that even though it’s hard, it is so bad to bottle them all inside, and he said like I am. Then I said that you shouldn’t do that, and was just quiet. Then he started to talk.
He’s not happy. He misses the kids every day. He said that when this thing started you think it goes one way and then you realize it didn’t and now he has messed up 6 peoples lives (I guess that’s all of us and the OW) and he doesn’t think it can be fixed. That he feels like he’s in a rollercoaster and he can’t get off. And at the same time he doesn’t even know where he wants to get off, because life is not completely bad. He enjoys spending time with his friends. (Like I have told him for years that he should spend time with his friends and not just home and work) but still something is missing.
He feels like he’s just an (insert bad word). I was just validating and telling him that things are not always black and white and that he shouldn’t be too hard on himself. The biggest thing I take from this is that he realizes that he needs to go and talk with someone. And he said not a friend or family but someone who doesn’t know him. And he was going out to dinner with his boss so he said he can’t talk to me more about this, because then he would cry.
He did say that the underlying reasons why this happened (that he never talked to me about) are still there. I just nodded and agreed, and told him I was sorry he was having a hard time and that I really would want him to be happy and ok.
It is so hard not to get my hopes up, but at the same time he didn’t say he wants to come home, he didn’t say he misses me, and as long as he’s living with her and not getting help, I guess I’ll just continue on my path (hard as it is) and leave him to fix his own mess. Of course, I’ll be nice and help if needed, but I will not try to get involved and help him unless asked.
I’m very confused now…It really is a rollercoaster, I wanted to tell him that you should try living in my shoes for a while and you’ll know what a rollercoaster ride really feels like.
It is so hard not to get my hopes up, but at the same time he didn’t say he wants to come home, he didn’t say he misses me, and as long as he’s living with her and not getting help, I guess I’ll just continue on my path (hard as it is) and leave him to fix his own mess.
It IS very tough. But listen to what he is not saying, and head it. That was a lesson I learned just this week with my H.
The only thing you can do IMO to stay sane in all of this is to continue on your path to a wonderful you, and focus on the kids.
I’m very confused now…It really is a rollercoaster
I'm on the same ride, and it doesn't seem to want to stop this week. Next time you MUST see him, see him with no expectations, and keep it just about the kids (or other important business). Perhaps even do it through e-mail or messaging only. It will help with those emotions.
(((Nyla)))
Grace
Now I decided to sit down and write again, I’ve been so busy and in such turmoils that I feel like I’ve neglected this forum. Not that any of us have obligations, but I miss you all when I don’t write here.
Gerda, I have to say I do admire you and your strength and wisdom. Thank you so much for your insights, they always calm me down and make me look at things differently. I will definitely look the book you recommended up and start reading. Any help I can get is needed.
HaWho, I have actually considered therapy for the kids, I think even if they would go a few times, it might help them unload some of the burden. I feel fine without it having you guys and my sister, but the kids, especially the younger ones are having a hard time dealing with this.
Grace 21 Like I said, it’s so hard not to get my hopes up.
After our meeting on Tuesday I didn’t hear from him yesterday until the evening. Since he moved out, we have mostly communicated thru messages, but yesterday he called to ask if I could drive S10 to camp today as he had something he needed to do. (We had earlier agreed he would drive him) Of course I said yes, but then after the phone call my silly little mind started to wonder why he called, when he could have sent a message.
Same today when he dropped S10 off from camp, he called me to let me know he had just dropped him off in front of the house. Usually these conversations are just that. “Hey, I just left S10 at your gate” “Ok, thanks bye” “Bye”.
Today he started to talk about other things and then telling me that S10 had said that I had looked funny in the morning when dropping him off and he wanted to know why. (I had a hair mask on so I had wrapped my head in saran wrap and then tied a scarf around that) I did look funny, but I thought it was nice that he was interested in what had happened, because he has not shown any interest in matter relating to me in these past months.
Am I being too optimistic here and reading too much into everything? I so hope I’m not…
I’m not contacting him other about the kids and always try to get off the phone or messages first. So my actions haven’t changed, but my mind is racing.
You will get many mixed signals because your H is confused and probably has a lot of conflict about leaving
I think most MLCers would love to keep their secret lives, and come home and converse with the family like nothing happened
(keep us as plan B) while they explore
after all they do still care for us- but the oW and the highs it brings hormonally and otherwise have their full attention
but Im sure many have second thoughts especially if the things are getting less exciting with OW or there is conflict there-
I would not pay attention to anything he does or says-
as long as he is living with OW and not making serious movement back to you
I would let it go- and continue on-
This touch and goes can last for many years-
Sometimes, a mlcer will circle back around
I have a friend that her MLCer has tried to get her back for many years while he is living with his 3rd OW
and my friend has no desire to be with a man of his nature-and has refused him several times as he would be cheating on his current girl-
I know it is tempting to read into their behavior and have done so myself-
but maybe if you can establish a co parenting friendship fun and cordial that would be your best option at this time-
all the best,
My goodness, where should I start…
H came by yesterday, he wanted to talk. He is not happy. He said he thought he would be happy when he changed his life but obviously it didn’t work and he misses me, he misses having a family. He said he doesn’t know how to fix this, I said that it all starts from him and him wanting to fix this. Everything is still fixable. I didn’t talk much, I mostly listened.
He said he needs help in straightening up his head. He apologized for what he has done and told me I didn’t deserve this.
He kissed me for the first time since January. We both agreed that fixing this will be a long a slow process and I told him that as long as he is still living with the OW that there is no hope for our marriage. He said she’s gone until the end of August.
As you can read I don’t have many words right now. This is what I’ve wanted all along, but it is also little surprising that it happened this quickly. I’m so afraid of getting hurt again, so so afraid. We talked that for now let’s just start seeing each other and talk, nothing more. This was my husband that was talking, it wasn’t the empty shell he’s been these past 6 months. Any advice? Comments?
I would be very wary at the moment. I would just stick to talking with no kissing whatsoever. He’s still someone else’s boyfriend right now.
You don’t want to be the ‘other’ woman. I’m worried that he may want to cake eat until she comes back. Is she away with work?
It’s a long time for her to be away in such a new relationship.
Be careful, to me, it’s to soon for regrets if he really is in MLC.
It’s the massive confusion that comes hand in hand with MLC. For those that are talkers, it gives a bird’s eye view that something is very off with our spouses. Mine talked a lot in the beginning, post BD and I was convinced he had a brain tumor until I somehow stumbled here and found the script and symptoms of MLC.
It’s quite telling that you say there is no marriage with OW in the picture and he says she is gone til August; notice he did not say she is out of the picture for good. It’s sort of comical that he says she is gone for a few weeks! He may be missing that high she brings that is filling/distracting him from his own unhappiness.
Sorry to say, that in my opinion, someone who is this confused about his place in this world cannot just fix this so quickly. The good news is you can see this has nothing to do with you. In moments of clarity he will state that. But then, sorry to say, he’ll go back to confusion as it’s a long cycle to fix himself.
Treat him with kindness as they do remember the way they were treated. Protect your finances as you can see he is off and, like a teen, he has poor decision making skills.
You cannot fix this for him. As you said to him, he has to fix this and with that kind of foggy confusion, that’ll take time and it’s painful so he’ll run from facing it.
Good Morning Nyla
I agree with Westo and HaWho.
H is having a moment of some clarity, that is all. You have a boundary about caking eating, keep it. No kissing.
You are correct, there can be no relationship while OW is in the picture. Until she has been gone for at least six consecutive months - no dating. That R and affair has to die. So, at least a full six month of no contact with OW, then he might, just might, be worthy of a gal such as you. Do not sell yourself short!
His confusion is evident as is the fact this is about him. You didn’t break him, you cannot fix him. Treat him kindly and with compassion. That is just as much for you as him, maybe even more. Unfortunately, H will most likely cycle again. He has lots to work through.
This is part of the process. Bouncing back and forth. I know how it feels to speak with a spouse and not the empty shell; keep expectations at zero. This doesn’t change your path. This is a marathon, keep the main focus on you.
I am a pretty hopeful guy, who looks at the possibilities. The future is unknown, and lots is possible here. Stay the course, it is the best thing for you, and your best chance at a possible future reconciliation. As counter-intuitive as that sounds.
DnJ
Nyla, I can imagine how incredible that was for you -- how wonderful and awful all at once, how confusing, how much hope it gave you and how it also fed your despair.
I am not a fan of rules except the zero expectation rule.
I always think of Charlyne from another site when I consider that stuff. She was the other woman to her husband's OW for a half year or something before he came back. She felt it was hypocritical to say she was keeping her vows and not allow her own H to kiss her and I am sure more than that when he started testing the waters. Their marriage was restored and became a ministry. I am not saying it's because she allowed that, but certainly she gave the pain of allowing it to God and in that way was able to bear the conflict and pain of it.
I am not sure it's possible to do that without putting all your trust in God and none in H. Whether you have God in your life or not, I am not saying to do what she did. But I am saying to not harden your heart. I don't know if that means allowing a kiss or not. I have no idea, really if you keep it soft by allowing a kiss or by not allowing one. I am sure your H will come and go and change his mind a million times over. And it may be too painful to kiss him or sleep with him or whatever you are contemplating and then see him come and go.
After 7 years in this mess, I guess what I mean is that I honestly don't think it's the boundaries that change anything. I have done boundaries and no boundaries and everything in between. Not for week at a time -- for YEARS. None of your boundaries or kisses can be a strategy. I think you could kiss him and even sleep together and it won't change anything about his trajectory. He will either return or he won't. (I think he will, based on what you have written about him and on the OW in question, honestly, but it will be a lot longer of a wait than you think.) It will take a long time for him to come back either way. The boundaries are for you. The not kissing or the kissing. It's what you can bear and what gives you the most peace in this storm. If my husband wanted to kiss me, I would have done it anytime, even if he was sleeping with some one of the slime-covered witches he found in these last 7 years. I would do it knowing that it won't change anything.
Now a few days have gone, and my emotions have calmed down about this.
Thank you all again for your input. It wasn’t easy to read and for the most part I don’t agree with you.
Please don’t take this personally, it’s just that my heart is directing me now.
My thoughts about this happening so fast are that for the most part I have been unsure if my husband is in midlife crisis or just WAS. As I understand it, a WAS would most likely return home sooner than a MLC’er.
My husband has also realized that there’s something wrong in his head, not in me or our relationship. And he wants to work on that. He hasn’t been fixed but understand that something needs fixing. That’s quite big in my opinion.
I saw a change in him already when I was back home in the beginning of the month and since then he has started to come closer and closer.
He’s now away for business, but all last night we chatted thru messages and later called a videophone to each other. Keeping things light, talking about every day, silly stuff, even some flirting.
I am (at least trying) to keep my guards up too. I know this all must come from him. He needs to make the first important steps, before we can actually work on the M. And somehow in my heart I know he will, it might take a while, but he’s on his way. I can see it in the way he looks at me again.
I am afraid, like crazy, crazy afraid that this is just his game and I will get hurt, but even then, I can’t not take this chance. I just can’t.
The OW is away with work, so he is probably still texting with her at least. I haven’t asked and will not ask. If he really wants this, he knows he has to end the affair. I will not push for it. It all must come from him.
DnJ, you have been my rock, my go to person in all of this, and this was the first time I didn’t agree with you. I feel bad about it, but I hope you can forgive me for not taking your advice completely. I am staying on my course, but at the same time opening the door a little to see if he wants to come in. I’m not pushing, pleading or asking. I only reply when he texts or calls, so my behavior has not changed. I’m still all about GAL.
Loved your words Gerda about hope and despair because that is exactly how I’ve felt. I also think that there can’t be any set rules for this as everyone’s situation is so different. I try to keep my expectations at zero, but man how hard it is, especially when I can feel him coming closer and opening up to me.
I feel exactly like you said, I know nothing I say or do will matter, I can’t control him, his feelings or his actions. Only mine, and when he kissed me, I felt it. I’ve told you all that we were intimate (well had sex, it wasn’t super intimate) a couple of times after he moved out and he never kissed me, if I tried kissing him, he would turn his head. So, the kiss and how it felt was huge for me and I’m quite sure for him too.
He is very busy with work the next two weeks and I also have friends coming for a visit, so nothing will happen fast here. I think that is also good, helps me to safeguard my heart, and him to figure out if this is what he really wants to commit to.
I will keep you posted, and hopefully I don’t have to crawl back and admit that you all were right and I was wrong….
It is quite okay to disagree w/the posters. We all have the road to travel when our spouses are floating around. Not knowing whether he is a walk away or a MLCer doesn't matter...what we do is going to be the same in the way that we treat them, i.e., w/kindness, compassion and patience.
You will know in the days ahead what you will need to do one way or the other. We are here to support you in whatever you decide to do.
Nyla
The ultimate decision is yours
It will be interesting to see how your situation turns out, but always follow your heart
you are the one that knows the situation best..We here go by our experiences with our MLC and reading the many posters here
Know that we are sincerely rooting for your situation and the highest good for you
I dont blame you for exploring the options, I would probably do the same
but the way you handle it may make the difference
U tube has a wealth of videos on relationships, dating, getting back together, ect with experienced dating coaches
there is a lot to learn out there about love-
and
If you can get with a coach here from Divorce busting, it may be helpful to get more professional guidence for you to navigate the waters of him possibly turning around
Good Luck
We are here for you-
Hello Nyla. I don't think I've ever commented on your thread before, but I've been following along with your story. I wanted to jump in and say that I think that some of us do get wrapped up in the rules of the LBS as if it is a recipe for reconciliation. I think it is important to understand that all that is said here are guidelines of what has worked for others in dealing with this crazy thing called MLC. The real thing to understand is that we are all human and work just a little bit different, have different experiences that shape us, and the dynamics of our relationships are all different. The reason that the guidelines help is because dealing with someone in MLC is counter intuitive and irrational and may not be how you might normally respond to a person exhibiting this behavior. The normal reaction typically pushes the MLC person away and leaves the LBS open and vulnerable to abuse. Its about protection for yourself.
From my experience, I like the way Gerda views it. Its something we all have to judge for ourselves in how we want to navigate this thing. Whatever you decide to do, just make sure and do it with your eyes wide open and guard your heart.
I hope your day today is the best it can be!!
Hello Nyla
DnJ, you have been my rock, my go to person in all of this, and this was the first time I didn’t agree with you. I feel bad about it, but I hope you can forgive me for not taking your advice completely. I am staying on my course, but at the same time opening the door a little to see if he wants to come in. I’m not pushing, pleading or asking. I only reply when he texts or calls, so my behavior has not changed. I’m still all about GAL.
From my point of view there is nothing to forgive. You do not have to take my advice or suggestions, it is your choice. I am here to support you.
That being said and with acknowledgement of your feelings. Yes, of course I forgive you. Please let go of feeling bad about not “taking my advice”. You have not let me down - honest!
These situations with our WAS or MLCers are difficult and everyone is a bit different. I want what it best for you.
This is, and has always been, your path, your journey. I am happy to be walking it with you.
I will keep you posted, and hopefully I don’t have to crawl back and admit that you all were right and I was wrong….
Nyla, right and wrong really don’t exist in these crazy situations. Hindsight isn’t even 20/20, and looking towards the future is just an educated guess. This is not an exact science.
I am glad you will keep posting. Everyone is pulling for you. And that is the primary focus - you. Nyla, is the most important person in all of this.
I would like to assure you, I am not against your decision. I will be here, encouraging you.
DnJ
Hi Nyla,
I agree with the others. We support you in whatever you choose to do. Only you know your whole situation.
From the moment of BD, as shocked as I was to come home from work to find him gone, leaving a note under my iPad, I actually wasn’t that shocked.
I had born witness to his deterioration in his demeanour for two years. I knew I was not the problem. Throughout the time several on here warned me not to get my hopes up on him returning.
But, in my heart I kept faith that, eventually, he would come out the other side and want to return. I was prepared to give him 2 years. And just over a year after BD (on finding out I’d been diagnosed with breast cancer) he told me he wanted to come back, as he realised he did still love me.
Edit to add, I hadn’t heard from him for almost a year.
It took another year for him to bring his relationship with OW to an end and finally return.
I believe the longer this takes, if he is to return, the better chance one has of it not happening a second time.
That’s why I said I thought it was too soon. They need to ‘fully bake’. It does sound like he wants to, but he has to get OW out of his system first, and this may take some time.
I do also want to add a little anecdote of Jack 3beans, who died a couple of years back but helped a lot of us here. And his words are so true in my sitch.
“Reconciliation doesn’t happen with a declaration of love, but a whisper of doubt”.
I thought it would be all hearts and flowers.......it still isn’t.
Reconciliation is not easy, for either couple. The innocence we had before is gone. We are different people and it’s now a different relationship.
I seem to be the one putting all the effort in, but then......I learned so much from here and being alone. He didn’t.
To be expected, I suppose.
Nyla, I am sending you a big hug.
I think Westo's wisdom here is well worth a good chew. She is covering both sides -- hope and pragmatism. And that's really what I meant. I think it's true that if your H bounces back this quickly, the risk of relapse is high. But it could happen that way or not.
My only concern for you is zero expectation. If you can have a beautiful night together with no expectation, go forth, young woman! Your idea to respond but never initiate is I think the only path you can take until your H is healed, and that could take months or years.
About you sleeping with H after he left -- I almost felt jealous! I think you are right that kissing is something totally different -- it's very hard to kiss if you have no feelings. My H hasn't touched me for seven years. I used to long for that or I would be affectionate with him in some small way, touching his arm, etc. I would have done anything with him even up until the fall. He never even came close. He kissed me once in seven years. The first two years when he kept going away or I would go away with the kids, we would have an intimate hug goodbye. That would never happen now.
The horrors of his divorce methods have killed my ability to think about him in that way. I am trying to put that in a box and not worry about it either way.
Point is, I totally understand what you are feeling and the choice you are making. Try not to think past any given moment!
Peacetoday, I have been watching so may videos and podcasts in the past week, just to kind of know what to expect if/when we really start working on this. I have also thought about calling a coach to help me/us.
Westo, one of my worries is exactly that I have learned and grown so much during this time, and I don’t know how much he has even started to process what has happened. I’m lightyears away from him and I just need to be patient and let him catch up. I also don’t want him to come home with unrealistic expectations that it is all going to be hearts and fireworks, because we will have to deal with this. He will eventually have to deal with the fact that he broke my heart and our children’s hearts and he will have to learn how to deal with the guilt of that, and hopefully one day let go of it.
I loved the quote from Jack 3beans, thank you for sharing it.
Gerda, I have longed for the touching as well and the lack of kissing when we have slept together has been hard to handle. That’s why It felt so amazing when he did kiss me last Sunday. I try to keep my expectations at zero, but the more closer he gets, the harder it is. Even just in a week our communication has gotten so much better than what it has been in these months. I feel like we are connecting again.
What has happened since last Wednesday. That was when H was gone for business and we had a nice evening chatting over texts and talking. On Thursday and Friday I didn’t really hear from him, some messages about the kids but nothing more. Of course, this caused some anxiety in me. I was afraid that he’s gone again, but then realized that even if he is gone again, there’s nothing I can do about it, so I just need to continue on my path…
Saturday, he texted me in the evening about the kids and then started to talk about leaving the OW. He is having scheduling problems with it (as silly as it sounds) They’re both traveling so much this month for work, that he doesn’t know when he could actually tell her it’s over. I just mostly listened and gave very general advice when he asked. I didn’t try to push for him to end the affair or to move back home. It all has to come from his desire to come back.
Yesterday he called me on his way to a business dinner, and we talked about nothing really, just silly day-to-day stuff, and we joked back and forth, a really nice conversation. When he got to the restaurant he told me he should go in, and I said well we never even got to why you called me. He said he just called because he was thinking about me. This has not happened since the BD. All of our phone calls since then have had a specific purpose, we don’t just call for no reason. So that felt good. He also told me he had decided to deal with the OW next week, as he’s gone all week and weekend this week. So, then I guess we’ll see what happens. I know actions speak louder than words, so I’m eagerly waiting.
Nyla
A coach would be a great idea..
The extra guidence may help navigate you-
I have not had experience with what you are dealing with now with your h, but I get the sense it would be great to
continue to do your life, make new friends, find activities and hobbies and continue to hold it together for the kids,
and be there for him to see if he actually leaves her...and where that leads you and him
I agree with peacetoday and would encourage you not to engage in conversations about his R with the OW on any level. You do not want to be seen as the teacher/mother watching his progress on the one hand, and for yourself, that is an emotional rollercoaster you do not need to ride. I'd just say lightly, "Let's just enjoy each other's company when we are together, I don't need to know about that." And when you get to the point that for your own peace/sanity, you have to know if it's over to know if you want to spend time with him, you can set the boundary then -- e.g., "I would love to see you tonight but I am at a point in my own life journey that I can't spend time with you until I know you aren't seeing someone else. Whenever you are at that point,I am here."
Like I said, I would do whatever with my H if he was doing that, but I would assume the entire time it meant nothing and not try to work out any R stuff for a very long time. My H seemed to be coming back several times. Where I am now is the pit of pits -- check my thread for proof! And your sitch is not mine of course, this might be a turnaround and all will be well, but for the sake of real movement forward for the long term, I would hold back on R talk for a very long time. Enjoy being with him if you can, let him come home if you want, I just wouldn't rush the actual R talk for a long time.
It’s been a while since I posted. I’ve been busy with friends visiting and my husband actually moving home!!!
Last time I posted he had told me that he was having a hard time ending the relationship with the OW. He ended it 5 days after and moved back home. The OW has been trying to text him and call him, but he’s mostly ignored her. The apartment they were living in is in his name, so he still has to make sure she leaves in the end of the month or pays for next months rent. I’m eagerly waiting for all of that to be done with, so he doesn’t have to be in touch with her anymore. I’m suspecting she will move back to Germany.
Where should I start with what’s been going on at home? Everything seems so weirdly normal and I have to say wonderful. We have gotten really close, really fast. So far I have let him do most of the talking, it seems like he has a real need to tell me about what’s been going on in his mind.
The common thing he says is that he just woke up one day and thought to himself what is he doing? And what has he done? He says that he felt like he was in a fog or a dream and was not steering at all. He doesn’t remember many details from the time he was with her.
He says he tried to find faults in me and blamed me for everything that he was unhappy with in his life and now he realizes that the problem is not in me but in him and his head. He says he doesn’t know why he ever started the affair and now that he has a clear head, he can’t understand why he left us for her. He is very sorry, tired and at times sad.
He seems annoyed about the OW and is ready to leave her behind.
I’m happy he’s home. I’m still wary even though he has canceled the divorce and assures me every day that he’s here to stay. I still get my insecure moments and let my mind wander to the spring and how much he hurt me. We haven’t talked about it yet, I don’t think he’s ready to hear about it and I’m not ready to talk about it either.
So overall so far so good. I still don’t know if this has been a MLC or just plain WAS in limerence, but as long as things are going as they are, I don’t care. He’s home, I’m somewhat happy (just afraid) and I think we will be able to fix this.
Nyla
awesome!!
Very interesting that he shifted home and I would be curious to see what happens
I hope he continues as he is-
You said you were listening to lots of u tube on relationships/dating/coaches
I think there are a lot of great ideas out there to practice and much of it works well-
curious to see if it works on MLC-
Good luck and keep us posted!
So happy for you Nyla. It sounds like you are on your way to making a new MR. Just a word of warning... my XH returned after BD#1 and said everything was back to normal. I was so grateful to have him home, I just let him move back in and we didn’t really discuss what had happened or what we both wanted going forward. Every time I would ask him anything, he would say his memory was fuzzy and it didn’t feel like it was him. He couldn’t really explain anything. He was ashamed and sad about his behaviour so I decided to just forgive him and resolved to move on. Two months later, he was back to old behaviours only this time he was much sneakier about it. Fast forward to today and we are days away from divorce and he has started his new life with OW (who he didn’t know back then). Anyway... my advice to you is to just stay vigilant and if something doesn’t sit well, address it. Don’t bury your head in the sand like I did. I hope everything works out for you. (((HUGS)))
I am very pleased that he has returned. Now, try to remember that this is a brand new relationship and do not fall back into old habits. Show this man the new you. Hopefully he will settle down and truly realize what a gem you are and will continue to kick the ow to the curb.
Keep up the good work.
Wow, Nyla. Keep us posted. XOXO
I never did write a note to your daughter. Do you think she could still use iit?
Nyla, please update us! XO
Hello all you lovely people!
Thank you Gerda for offering to write that letter to my daughter, I think she’ ok now without it.
DejaVu it was hard to read your message. I’m so sorry this happened to you, and I so hope that it won’t be the case with my husband.
So now my husband has been home for a month, exactly. From that month he was travelling alone for 15 days, which was hard on me. Now that he’s home my insecurities are starting to rise up, with everything. Even when he goes to work and I don’t hear from him, I get insecure. To try to alleviate the situation, I actually went away with him last week when he had to go on a business trip. It did us so good. We were alone without the kids and were able to communicate about a lot of things. Kind of got the ball rolling so to speak.
He still has a hard time remembering what he has said or even sometimes done during the spring. He’s being very honest with me, which is something we agreed on, brutal honesty even when it hurts. Actually cost me one of my good friends.
He told me they had been messaging each other during the spring. And at the same time this “friend” was comforting me when I was sad. She never told me anything about this. So I confronted her and she placed all the blame on my husband. But when she has also been actively participating, trying to arrange a meeting so they could have sex, I think she’s just as much to blame as my H. Good riddance. And even though I am hurt by my H actions, it kind of goes to the same bucket as everything else in the last 7 or so months.
He has apologized so many times. He says he is having a hard time forgiving himself and will not ever hurt me like this again. I do want to believe him, at the moment it’s still hard. A lot of scars. It’s amazing how many emotions I have coming up now. I think I might have been suppressing some of them earlier.
We have talked about everything and anything. Sometimes he asks for a timeout if it gets too much and then we take a pause. I think so far it has worked well. I am sometimes worried that he is having a hard time looking in to the mirror, but then at times he shows that he knows what he has done wrong. I don’t know, it’s harder than I imagined.
She has moved out of their apartment and he has blocked her numbers, emails and social media.
It is hard to talk about it, because sometimes I ask questions and then when he answers, it hurts. So I try to think really hard and well what do I really want/need to know.
He did notice my 180’s immediately, and says he was always so surprised because I was always so nice to him. Divorce busting really, really works. Thank you all for helping me with it. <3
Nyla
I definitely understand the insecure feelings
I would feel them and work through them with your therapist
sorry about that so -called friend-that is a tough thing and I hear it happens a lot
Everything in life is risky , and time will tell if your H can forgive himself and work through his issues and at the same time you must be doing things in a way that speaks to him because he is home
continue to work on yourself and know you will be ok no matter what
Hopefully you and your H will work through this, and get a better M than b4
Good Morning Nyla
It is good to see that this month has gone well.
Your conversations seem to be working. Good job taking a break from them when needed.
It is wise to figure out what you really need to know vs what you want know - or what you feel you want to know. Just imagine in ten years, some things you really want to know right now, won’t really matter.
Not to worry, H will reveal a lot of answers himself as he feels more and more safe and secure with you (and that is about him not you). Don’t press or push too hard, he is going to take some time getting his bearings.
Keep doing what works and less of what doesn't.
Was nice hearing from you.
DnJ