Fine tuning my inner Me - 06/22/19 07:05 PM
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 06/22/19 11:24 PM
Hello Grace
Yay!
I agree with job. Your H is one of the slow ones. He is in no rush to end anything or really start anything. You are doing great giving him lots of time and space; ample opportunity for him to figure himself out.
And look at you - moving forward, and living and loving life. Yay again!
I like your decision to become a member of your church. And a 27 mile bike ride, all over the trails, that does sound fun.
What kind of bread you making?
I just got in from mowing grass - 7 hours - it was pretty tall. I am hungry and now all I am thinking about is fresh baked bread. Mouth is watering, tastebuds poised in anticipation, tummy rumbling - I better find something. Think I’ll make a pizza tonight. It’s like fresh bread - with stuff on top - like meat, cheese, sauce, more meat.
You are doing great.
DnJ
Originally Posted by Grace21
Time will bring answers.
DnJ – I originally wrote “Time will hopefully bring answers”, but removed “hopefully”. I’m learning.
DnJ – I originally wrote “Time will hopefully bring answers”, but removed “hopefully”. I’m learning.
Yay!
I agree with job. Your H is one of the slow ones. He is in no rush to end anything or really start anything. You are doing great giving him lots of time and space; ample opportunity for him to figure himself out.
And look at you - moving forward, and living and loving life. Yay again!
I like your decision to become a member of your church. And a 27 mile bike ride, all over the trails, that does sound fun.
What kind of bread you making?
I just got in from mowing grass - 7 hours - it was pretty tall. I am hungry and now all I am thinking about is fresh baked bread. Mouth is watering, tastebuds poised in anticipation, tummy rumbling - I better find something. Think I’ll make a pizza tonight. It’s like fresh bread - with stuff on top - like meat, cheese, sauce, more meat.
You are doing great.
DnJ
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 06/23/19 02:52 AM
Hi Grace! Wow what a bike ride! I'm impressed.
My H has been keeping the status quo re: finances this whole time. I don't rock the boat. I try not to imagine why he is/isn't doing anything. It helps me stay strong : )
Congratulations on your new church membership!
My H has been keeping the status quo re: finances this whole time. I don't rock the boat. I try not to imagine why he is/isn't doing anything. It helps me stay strong : )
Congratulations on your new church membership!
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 06/24/19 09:46 PM
Met with 2 Elders in my church yesterday and became a member. Spent some time with H.
First my meeting at church. They asked me about my faith journey, and my stand for my marriage came up. One elder in particular was quite amazed, and pressed me about who my mentor was because he thought this is not something people normally just do in such circumstances. I told him a few Christian woman have come into my life that understand and are supportive of my choice, but really it was the internet community. I didn’t mention this place by name, but really, this has been a driving force is keeping the focus forward, and allowing God to work at his own pace. I left the meeting a member of a new church, feeling more validated in my stand, and with a new resolve to live my life in a way where my actions and words reflect God’s love, grace, and mercy. Not just with H, but in all aspects of my life.
H went to brunch with the kids. They came back about an hour after I got home, and when the kids went off to do their thing, H made cocktails and we chatted. I am beginning to think he needs the buffer of a cocktail when we are left alone, but I said nothing, and enjoyed mine!
We chatted about just stuff for quite a while – maybe 30-45 minutes. Then, once again, I felt compelled to say something about our sitch. I didn’t plan to. In fact I was determined not to. But, it happened. After he leaves I can never remember exactly how things unfolded. (I’m amazed and how some of you can replay your whole scenarios here).
I asked about whether he will continue his monthly rental. He said for now. I asked why, after 9 months, he didn’t look into something more longer term. He said he didn’t know. He said he still doesn’t know what to do. He said sometimes he wished he could just disappear (I think he used the word vanish). I did not respond. Just listed. I asked him if he knew what was making if difficult for him to propel him in one direction versus the other. And whether is was fear. He said he was fearful. That he often feels fear. I did not pursue this further. He did say that he was learning to take care of himself, and he seemed proud when he said it. He said it twice. I didn’t respond the first time, just listened. The 2nd time I said that it was a good thing. I got the feeling he said it twice to get a response from me. I told him that I don’t want fear to stop him from talking to me, and that I am here for him if he needs help sorting things out. He nodded, and S21 came into the room about that time. Convo over. He hugged me good-bye as he usually does.
I would have loved to ask him specifically what he is fearful of. I was scrolling in my journal just now and came across a post by DnJ on 4/21/19 specifically about fear. Would I ever love to send that to him. As we all know here, DnJ is very wise!
I will leave H alone for now.
My stand continues for now.
And I will continue to do my best to reflect God’s love, grace and peace to H whenever I see him, and to people I cross paths with evrey day.
Life is good.
P.S. DnJ, I never got around to baking the bread (Again!), but I will share the experience when I do! With D19 home now, life isn't quite as predictable.
First my meeting at church. They asked me about my faith journey, and my stand for my marriage came up. One elder in particular was quite amazed, and pressed me about who my mentor was because he thought this is not something people normally just do in such circumstances. I told him a few Christian woman have come into my life that understand and are supportive of my choice, but really it was the internet community. I didn’t mention this place by name, but really, this has been a driving force is keeping the focus forward, and allowing God to work at his own pace. I left the meeting a member of a new church, feeling more validated in my stand, and with a new resolve to live my life in a way where my actions and words reflect God’s love, grace, and mercy. Not just with H, but in all aspects of my life.
H went to brunch with the kids. They came back about an hour after I got home, and when the kids went off to do their thing, H made cocktails and we chatted. I am beginning to think he needs the buffer of a cocktail when we are left alone, but I said nothing, and enjoyed mine!
We chatted about just stuff for quite a while – maybe 30-45 minutes. Then, once again, I felt compelled to say something about our sitch. I didn’t plan to. In fact I was determined not to. But, it happened. After he leaves I can never remember exactly how things unfolded. (I’m amazed and how some of you can replay your whole scenarios here).
I asked about whether he will continue his monthly rental. He said for now. I asked why, after 9 months, he didn’t look into something more longer term. He said he didn’t know. He said he still doesn’t know what to do. He said sometimes he wished he could just disappear (I think he used the word vanish). I did not respond. Just listed. I asked him if he knew what was making if difficult for him to propel him in one direction versus the other. And whether is was fear. He said he was fearful. That he often feels fear. I did not pursue this further. He did say that he was learning to take care of himself, and he seemed proud when he said it. He said it twice. I didn’t respond the first time, just listened. The 2nd time I said that it was a good thing. I got the feeling he said it twice to get a response from me. I told him that I don’t want fear to stop him from talking to me, and that I am here for him if he needs help sorting things out. He nodded, and S21 came into the room about that time. Convo over. He hugged me good-bye as he usually does.
I would have loved to ask him specifically what he is fearful of. I was scrolling in my journal just now and came across a post by DnJ on 4/21/19 specifically about fear. Would I ever love to send that to him. As we all know here, DnJ is very wise!
I will leave H alone for now.
My stand continues for now.
And I will continue to do my best to reflect God’s love, grace and peace to H whenever I see him, and to people I cross paths with evrey day.
Life is good.
P.S. DnJ, I never got around to baking the bread (Again!), but I will share the experience when I do! With D19 home now, life isn't quite as predictable.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 06/25/19 07:32 PM
Grace,
What a powerful testimony to your faith. When I shared with a leader in my church, they asked if they could share my phone number with another member. She was told that her H wanted a D. When she called, she acted like it was just over and done. Turns out he said it in the heat of an argument. I didn't even have to tell her about my sitch, I told her about DB, but she texted a week later and said he was very sorry and that he wants to go to MC. I was surprised/kind of not surprised that she was just willing to D because of an argument. Does no one use the Bible as the authority for their life? Anyway, I know that's maybe judgement and not my concern, but it made me realize that we are not the norm, which is sad especially in the Christian community. I love how you are using this as your ministry. That's what it is, your ministry.
ps. the first verse that punched me in the face was: 1 Peter 3:1-2. I cracked up and cried. lol I love using my words!! I've found that it is true, and a DBing technique!!
What a powerful testimony to your faith. When I shared with a leader in my church, they asked if they could share my phone number with another member. She was told that her H wanted a D. When she called, she acted like it was just over and done. Turns out he said it in the heat of an argument. I didn't even have to tell her about my sitch, I told her about DB, but she texted a week later and said he was very sorry and that he wants to go to MC. I was surprised/kind of not surprised that she was just willing to D because of an argument. Does no one use the Bible as the authority for their life? Anyway, I know that's maybe judgement and not my concern, but it made me realize that we are not the norm, which is sad especially in the Christian community. I love how you are using this as your ministry. That's what it is, your ministry.
ps. the first verse that punched me in the face was: 1 Peter 3:1-2. I cracked up and cried. lol I love using my words!! I've found that it is true, and a DBing technique!!
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 06/25/19 09:48 PM
Hope - 1 Peter 3: 1-2 was quoted by one of my elders during our meeting. Those words give complete validation to what us standers are doing. Thanks for posting it. I have not memorized any scripture yet, but I put versus that are meaningful to me in my journal. I couldn't remember where the scripture was from once I left the meeting, so thanks!
I really didn't look at my stand as a ministry, but I can see how my choice to live my life in a way to reflect the love of God is a ministry. I appreciate that.
When I last saw my therapist, I told her I feel a faint call to help others going through the same thing in a more organized manner (like a small group, I guess). She said she would send people my way if I chose to do that. Hmmmm. Another ministry brewing? We'll see. The feeling isn't strong. Yet.
I really didn't look at my stand as a ministry, but I can see how my choice to live my life in a way to reflect the love of God is a ministry. I appreciate that.
When I last saw my therapist, I told her I feel a faint call to help others going through the same thing in a more organized manner (like a small group, I guess). She said she would send people my way if I chose to do that. Hmmmm. Another ministry brewing? We'll see. The feeling isn't strong. Yet.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 06/26/19 04:46 AM
Hello Grace
Congratulations on the membership. Your meeting and discussion sounded very productive and affirming. I do agree that we LBS are a loyal and an unfortunately small subsection of the general population.
You sound so uplifted talking about your stand, your life, your willingness and commitment to reflect God’s grace and light. Faith is an incredibly powerful force.
An interesting and unplanned talk with H. He is really unsure of what he is doing, and why. His idea of wanting to disappear or vanish shows where he is at the moment; wanting to melt away. As well his inability to decide what to do, shows the paralysis of fear that is gripping him. He’s got stuff to work out.
I will say, his seeming proud of learning to take care of himself, is something definitely worthy of validation and acknowledgement from you, which you did. This is progress for him, and a small step in a positive direction. I agree with you, best to let him be for now. He probably has a few thoughts and feelings swirling around at the moment.
So, no bread. It’s ok.
Unpredictable - isn’t it great? Most definitely not boring.
It’s wonderful to see you walking the path and living in the light.
DnJ
Congratulations on the membership. Your meeting and discussion sounded very productive and affirming. I do agree that we LBS are a loyal and an unfortunately small subsection of the general population.
You sound so uplifted talking about your stand, your life, your willingness and commitment to reflect God’s grace and light. Faith is an incredibly powerful force.
An interesting and unplanned talk with H. He is really unsure of what he is doing, and why. His idea of wanting to disappear or vanish shows where he is at the moment; wanting to melt away. As well his inability to decide what to do, shows the paralysis of fear that is gripping him. He’s got stuff to work out.
I will say, his seeming proud of learning to take care of himself, is something definitely worthy of validation and acknowledgement from you, which you did. This is progress for him, and a small step in a positive direction. I agree with you, best to let him be for now. He probably has a few thoughts and feelings swirling around at the moment.
Originally Posted by Grace21
With D19 home now, life isn't quite as predictable.
So, no bread. It’s ok.
Unpredictable - isn’t it great? Most definitely not boring.
It’s wonderful to see you walking the path and living in the light.
DnJ
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 06/26/19 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by DnJ
I will say, his seeming proud of learning to take care of himself, is something definitely worthy of validation and acknowledgement from you, which you did. This is progress for him, and a small step in a positive direction.
I need to be more vigilant for these small signs of progress. I didn't see it that way at first. I see it now. I can see how easily they can slip by along with the opportunity to validate and potentially inch forward with H. The trick will be not to look into anything further than what it is at the moment.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 06/26/19 10:28 PM
Hello Grace
These little opportunities can easily slip by, especially when involved in the conversation. Like anything, practice makes perfect, there will be many more opportunities I think.
You are correct with only considering the signs (positive or negative) valid for that moment. Acknowledging and validating his feelings show you hear and are listening. Praise the good stuff and he just might inch forward a bit, because he is ready. It helps to “see” him as a small boy looking for praise for his good deed. Along the lines of reinforcing good behaviour and ignoring bad.
The big thing is accepting him for who he is, which I think you are doing a wonderful job of. The MLCer wants to feel safe and accepted. Once safe they might just grow up. Some of then in their looking for their safe haven runaway and cease contact with their former life. Others, like you H, seemed to like to, and want to, talk and keep in contact. It really depends on the person and whatever demons they are battling.
Your progress is still paramount during all this. Don’t worry he sees you and the role model you are, so keep moving forward and let him catch up.
DnJ
These little opportunities can easily slip by, especially when involved in the conversation. Like anything, practice makes perfect, there will be many more opportunities I think.
You are correct with only considering the signs (positive or negative) valid for that moment. Acknowledging and validating his feelings show you hear and are listening. Praise the good stuff and he just might inch forward a bit, because he is ready. It helps to “see” him as a small boy looking for praise for his good deed. Along the lines of reinforcing good behaviour and ignoring bad.
The big thing is accepting him for who he is, which I think you are doing a wonderful job of. The MLCer wants to feel safe and accepted. Once safe they might just grow up. Some of then in their looking for their safe haven runaway and cease contact with their former life. Others, like you H, seemed to like to, and want to, talk and keep in contact. It really depends on the person and whatever demons they are battling.
Your progress is still paramount during all this. Don’t worry he sees you and the role model you are, so keep moving forward and let him catch up.
DnJ
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 06/26/19 11:08 PM
Hello Grace
I meant to thank you for the kind words regarding my views on fear.
Thank you.
So, where do you see yourself? How much prison is bathed in light? Do you see your two lights? I see them.
If you are willing I am interested in your fears.
Please do not feel pressured. Acknowledging our fears is tough enough. Facing them takes even more. And sharing is an even bigger step.
I think a common fear is to share them. It makes one so very vulnerable. One exposes their very core and opens themselves up, a pretty uncommon position in today’s veiled society.
How ever, and when ever, you choose to expose those roots of your deep fears and let them wither, you will be amazed at what is on the other side.
DnJ
I meant to thank you for the kind words regarding my views on fear.
Thank you.
So, where do you see yourself? How much prison is bathed in light? Do you see your two lights? I see them.
If you are willing I am interested in your fears.
Please do not feel pressured. Acknowledging our fears is tough enough. Facing them takes even more. And sharing is an even bigger step.
I think a common fear is to share them. It makes one so very vulnerable. One exposes their very core and opens themselves up, a pretty uncommon position in today’s veiled society.
How ever, and when ever, you choose to expose those roots of your deep fears and let them wither, you will be amazed at what is on the other side.
DnJ
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 06/27/19 02:08 AM
Originally Posted by DnJ
If you are willing I am interested in your fears.
I am not fearful of sharing my fears. I'm just not sure I know exactly what they are. They are certainly much fewer than 10 months ago. I will take a few days to consider, and return with my musings.
I appreciate your nudges to grow, DnJ.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 06/30/19 05:29 PM
Today brings to close 9 months of living without my H, 9 months of new discoveries and making new friends, 9 months of an incredible faith journey, and 9 months of discovering the Me that was suppressed for quite a while.
I like the new (old) me.
I contemplated looking at some of my early posts, but decided that was in the past, and is meaningless to me now. That isn’t me any more.
I was with some friends last night, and they of course wanted an update on H. My friend said “at some point you just need to give him an ultimatum to either commit or move on”. I just told her that no, I don’t. There is no need because I feel happy, and have a full life the way things are now. I told her I felt strongly that I need to just live my life showing grace, love, compassion and love to H or anyone that comes in my life. I’m not sue she got it. She is in a strong, good marriage, and she thinks I deserve that too. Yes, I do, but that does not define me. We talked more about it, and she apologized. Told her no need, but I think she understands my view on it now a bit more.
I’ve put much thought into this over the past few days. Even chatted a bit with a friend about fears (hers) Friday night. (She is going through a nasty situation with a hugely out of control MLCr). Anyway, I said to her “I don’t feel fear any more”.
And I don’t.
Posted 4/29/19
This is what 9 months has given me.
Logic and reason led to detachment. Detachment led to acceptance. Acceptance made room for compassion, empathy, [Grace and love]. Forgiveness has arrived, I think. This place I’m in is a gift from God, and will allow Him to work on H without my interference. Whether God will bring reconciliation is up to Him, but I told a good friend today that has seen me through this process that I now feel that it might be possible some day. I still don’t see myself as divorced.
But, if that is what happens, I no longer fear it.
So, 9 months brings me to today. Happy, content, complete.
I wonder what tomorrow will bring?
Life is good.
I like the new (old) me.
I contemplated looking at some of my early posts, but decided that was in the past, and is meaningless to me now. That isn’t me any more.
I was with some friends last night, and they of course wanted an update on H. My friend said “at some point you just need to give him an ultimatum to either commit or move on”. I just told her that no, I don’t. There is no need because I feel happy, and have a full life the way things are now. I told her I felt strongly that I need to just live my life showing grace, love, compassion and love to H or anyone that comes in my life. I’m not sue she got it. She is in a strong, good marriage, and she thinks I deserve that too. Yes, I do, but that does not define me. We talked more about it, and she apologized. Told her no need, but I think she understands my view on it now a bit more.
Originally Posted by DnJ
So, where do you see yourself? How much prison is bathed in light? Do you see your two lights? I see them. If you are willing I am interested in your fears. DnJ
I’ve put much thought into this over the past few days. Even chatted a bit with a friend about fears (hers) Friday night. (She is going through a nasty situation with a hugely out of control MLCr). Anyway, I said to her “I don’t feel fear any more”.
And I don’t.
Posted 4/29/19
Originally Posted by DnJ
The fears are now understood, reasoned, for what they truly are, the irrational obsessions of possible future events.
The cause of the fears are understood, your emotional response to fear is abated.
Letting go of fear bring so much peace and strength. You know you will be alright. You feel it.
The path you choose, loving detachment, now enfolds - compassion, empathy, and understanding flourish.
Logic and reason bring understanding and acceptance.
Understanding, acceptance, compassion, and empathy, brings forgiveness.
Now, something truly miraculous occurs. You find two keys within yourself.
You are both prisoner and jailer within these self built walls.
The keys are forgiveness, and your release.
The first, forgiving yourself, removes the door.
The second, forgiving your spouse (and others), removes the prison.
You are released.
Freedom is truly found.
The cause of the fears are understood, your emotional response to fear is abated.
Letting go of fear bring so much peace and strength. You know you will be alright. You feel it.
The path you choose, loving detachment, now enfolds - compassion, empathy, and understanding flourish.
Logic and reason bring understanding and acceptance.
Understanding, acceptance, compassion, and empathy, brings forgiveness.
Now, something truly miraculous occurs. You find two keys within yourself.
You are both prisoner and jailer within these self built walls.
The keys are forgiveness, and your release.
The first, forgiving yourself, removes the door.
The second, forgiving your spouse (and others), removes the prison.
You are released.
Freedom is truly found.
This is what 9 months has given me.
Logic and reason led to detachment. Detachment led to acceptance. Acceptance made room for compassion, empathy, [Grace and love]. Forgiveness has arrived, I think. This place I’m in is a gift from God, and will allow Him to work on H without my interference. Whether God will bring reconciliation is up to Him, but I told a good friend today that has seen me through this process that I now feel that it might be possible some day. I still don’t see myself as divorced.
But, if that is what happens, I no longer fear it.
So, 9 months brings me to today. Happy, content, complete.
I wonder what tomorrow will bring?
Life is good.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 06/30/19 07:32 PM
That is fantastic!
Happy, content, complete.
You are shinning Grace. And what a beautiful light to share with the world.
DnJ
Happy, content, complete.
You are shinning Grace. And what a beautiful light to share with the world.
DnJ
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/06/19 10:13 PM
Something I've been thinking about. How can I feel so confident and feel "happy, content, and complete" for a while, and then BAM, anxious and not so content. When this happens, it's not that I'm unhappy, I just obsess over my sitch and H and the OW. Why do I still care?
I guess that just tells me I'm not detached enough. It makes me wonder when I will be. I almost wrote "if I ever will be", but i know at some point I will be.
Is it because I still interact with him from time to time? Or, is it my controlling "fix it" nature sneaking in? Or perhaps it's just Satan rearing his ugly head and trying to take over the sitch.
I'm on a great vacation now. In my home state but brought a GF with me who has never been here. Saw some family, but we are really doing the foodie thing. High end. It's been awesome. Brought a high school GF with us last night to a James Beard award winning restaurant. Awesome. Great food and company. It's been really fun. H shouldn't be weighing on my mind. But, I'm thinking it's because I've really not prayed or read my bible for several days. Satan is probably seeing his opportunity.
Time to get back on track.
Time to enjoy the rest of my vacation.
Time for a glass of wine.
Time for feeling "happy, content, and complete" again.
Life if good.
Grace
I guess that just tells me I'm not detached enough. It makes me wonder when I will be. I almost wrote "if I ever will be", but i know at some point I will be.
Is it because I still interact with him from time to time? Or, is it my controlling "fix it" nature sneaking in? Or perhaps it's just Satan rearing his ugly head and trying to take over the sitch.
I'm on a great vacation now. In my home state but brought a GF with me who has never been here. Saw some family, but we are really doing the foodie thing. High end. It's been awesome. Brought a high school GF with us last night to a James Beard award winning restaurant. Awesome. Great food and company. It's been really fun. H shouldn't be weighing on my mind. But, I'm thinking it's because I've really not prayed or read my bible for several days. Satan is probably seeing his opportunity.
Time to get back on track.
Time to enjoy the rest of my vacation.
Time for a glass of wine.
Time for feeling "happy, content, and complete" again.
Life if good.
Grace
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/07/19 01:12 AM
Hello Grace
You listed some really good points and I do like the “way” you spoke about detachment.
Because you care.
Let me use me and my situation. Perhaps you will see some similarities. Use whatever works and discard the rest.
I would loose my contentment every now and then as well. Wondering why I still cared about W.
I lived with the woman, loved this woman, for 30+ years. Of course I care!
The problem isn’t the lack of detachment. It’s accepting that you care. The problem is trying (notice wording - destine to fail) to not care. I’ve cared for 30 years, that just isn’t going to stop - well not if one is compassionate and empathetic.
Obtaining detachment and finding indifference is key to one’s healing. Remaining compassionate, accepting who you are, and what you feel; allows one to find a compassionate indifference, something like tough love.
I still get feeling of caring towards W, and thoughts as well. I remain happy and content, these feelings and thoughts are reminders, are proof, that those 30 years were real. Yes those years are over; and I cherish memories of more good than bad times.
I embraced my feelings, my beliefs, and accepted them. Kindness and compassion - let the chips fall where they do. W had an affair, threw away her kids and her life, and divorced me. That will not, and does not define me. I could have turned to vengeance and found a non-caring way through my foggy path. I could have altered my beliefs - that didn’t suit me.
Grace, you can alter and change your beliefs. Do you want to not care? Personally, I suggest not working towards that. I see you as a caring kind woman, embrace that. Accept that, and find peace with you caring about H. With that achieved you will not obsess over him and OW - it’s trying to not care that brings him and her into the forethought too much.
Accept you care and let go.
It’s easier than it might look. This is all you, absolutely nothing to do with H. You can be indifferent to his actions and behaviours; and still be at peace with your feelings.
You have achieve peace and contentment, and then those feelings of caring come back. You can fight it, or accept it. Which one looks more peaceful to you? Which suits you?
Have a wonderful vacation.
DnJ
Originally Posted by Grace21
How can I feel so confident and feel "happy, content, and complete" for a while, and then BAM, anxious and not so content.
You listed some really good points and I do like the “way” you spoke about detachment.
Originally Posted by Grace21
Why do I still care?
Because you care.
Let me use me and my situation. Perhaps you will see some similarities. Use whatever works and discard the rest.
I would loose my contentment every now and then as well. Wondering why I still cared about W.
I lived with the woman, loved this woman, for 30+ years. Of course I care!
The problem isn’t the lack of detachment. It’s accepting that you care. The problem is trying (notice wording - destine to fail) to not care. I’ve cared for 30 years, that just isn’t going to stop - well not if one is compassionate and empathetic.
Obtaining detachment and finding indifference is key to one’s healing. Remaining compassionate, accepting who you are, and what you feel; allows one to find a compassionate indifference, something like tough love.
I still get feeling of caring towards W, and thoughts as well. I remain happy and content, these feelings and thoughts are reminders, are proof, that those 30 years were real. Yes those years are over; and I cherish memories of more good than bad times.
I embraced my feelings, my beliefs, and accepted them. Kindness and compassion - let the chips fall where they do. W had an affair, threw away her kids and her life, and divorced me. That will not, and does not define me. I could have turned to vengeance and found a non-caring way through my foggy path. I could have altered my beliefs - that didn’t suit me.
Grace, you can alter and change your beliefs. Do you want to not care? Personally, I suggest not working towards that. I see you as a caring kind woman, embrace that. Accept that, and find peace with you caring about H. With that achieved you will not obsess over him and OW - it’s trying to not care that brings him and her into the forethought too much.
Accept you care and let go.
It’s easier than it might look. This is all you, absolutely nothing to do with H. You can be indifferent to his actions and behaviours; and still be at peace with your feelings.
You have achieve peace and contentment, and then those feelings of caring come back. You can fight it, or accept it. Which one looks more peaceful to you? Which suits you?
Have a wonderful vacation.
DnJ
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/07/19 07:12 AM
(((GRACE))). As usual, DnJ has some sage advice. I think you are doing great and of course you will think about him from time to time. As DnJ says... accept it and be okay with it... and then get on with you being you. You are going to be okay no matter what Grace. Believe it!!! Your sitch is not over and done. Stay the course. Be patient but don’t wait for him. Move forward with your life...if he comes back and wants to R, you will be in the driver’s seat. And if he doesn’t... you will still be in the driver’s seat. Do the things that make you happy and spend time with the people who love you and want to spend time with you. Be present in your life and try not to look back too much. Memories are great but you live your life in the here and now. Your trip sounds like great fun!!! Soak up every minute. (((HUGS)))
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/07/19 05:10 PM
Just wrote about this on Nyla's thread. You are flesh and you loved deeply. Why are you beating yourself up for loving truly? What kind of a stone-hearted woman could not care that her H has an OW?
I have had to confess murderous thoughts many times not only about OW but about the guy paying for H's divorce lawyer -- who thus enabled a divorce my H could never have afforded to undertake. (He's my kids' godfather.) I don't mean that metaphorically. I mean I wanted to see them dead.
What I just wrote on Nyla's thread is that there is someone who is very good at a very quick path to detachment and at shutting off thoughts of love and care.
That person is your H. My H, all the MLCer's here.
Do you want to have that power?
Weakness in this case is a good sign that your heart is still flesh. And don't forget what Paul says about weakness.
2 Corinthians 12:9
I have had to confess murderous thoughts many times not only about OW but about the guy paying for H's divorce lawyer -- who thus enabled a divorce my H could never have afforded to undertake. (He's my kids' godfather.) I don't mean that metaphorically. I mean I wanted to see them dead.
What I just wrote on Nyla's thread is that there is someone who is very good at a very quick path to detachment and at shutting off thoughts of love and care.
That person is your H. My H, all the MLCer's here.
Do you want to have that power?
Weakness in this case is a good sign that your heart is still flesh. And don't forget what Paul says about weakness.
2 Corinthians 12:9
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/10/19 12:01 AM
DnJ, Deja, and Gerda. Thank you for your input, support, advice. So much appreciated.
DnJ - I still find myself trying not to care, and I'm struggling hard today.
DeJa - just when I think I've accepted my sitch and am o.k. with it, I find I'm not.
Gerda - 2 Corinthians 12:9 is spot on. I'm putting it in my journal to remind myself it's in these times, we can find ourselves closer to God.
*******************
Journaling. I need some support and sage advice. I didn't edit a lot, so excuse my stream of consciousness.
Back from a wonderful vacation. Connected with family, and friends. Back to reality tomorrow.
Recently I ended a post with a question: “I wonder what tomorrow will bring?”
That post was so full of peace. Contentment. What happened to that person?
She is struggling today.
H was on my mind a lot during the trip. I posted about it. Wondering if I’m done is weighing heavily on my mind. I thought a lot about asking H to meet to discuss whether it’s time to have a more formal separation. He’s got a girlfriend and his own place. I don’t go over there. It’s starting to bug me he can come and go as he pleases here. He’s starting to detach from taking care of the yard. I’ve been doing some of it. I don’t think he believes I do a good job. He wondered if he should look into a lawn service.
H is adopted, and I’m close with his birth mother. She lives out of the country. I’m close to her, and phone her regularly. I don’t pump her for info about H, but I found out today (from her) that he is visiting and bringing OW. I guessed and she confirmed. Apparently OW asked to go, and H wanted his birth mother’s blessing he could bring her. She could hear I was upset. She of course wants to stay out of it. But, this woman hasn’t seen her grand kids in several years. She’s 83 years old. You would think he would bring the kids. I find myself really quite upset about this!
I hate that I’m very upset about this.
She also said he was moving to a new apartment. Getting a place with OW? I don’t know. But, seems to me if he does, he’s made his decision.
I have thoughts of wanting to embarrass him, hurt him (badly), of telling the kids, and giving him a piece of my mind. Ugly thoughts. I don’t like it.
Why can’t he just make a decision? I don’t want to. Do I have to?
I think that pursuing a D, or pressuring H to make a decision, won’t really change my path, and may even complicate it. I don’t want to avoid addressing our situation and perhaps pursue a more formal S or even D for the wrong reasons either – fear of dealing with the difficult; being the one to end the marriage in my kids eyes. I don’t want them to blame ME.
I was so confident of my stand 2 weeks ago. What the heck changed? Maybe because I stopped my running dialogue with God over the vacation. I really fell off the wagon in that department.
D19 had a major melt down on the phone last night with me. She was home along during my vacation. She is really struggling. With work and other things. She struggles with making friends too. She’s a bit shy, so it was very quiet around here I’m sure. I was really worried she was having a nervous breakdown. When I saw her today she seemed much better. She sure is happy I’m home. I don’t want her to use me to fill her life, though. That worries me a bit. But, I certainly am here for her. I also suggested she see her therapist regularly when she gets back to school. She agreed. I messaged H briefly about it. His response? “She seemed fine when I saw her today.” He added that he agreed maybe she needs therapy. That was it.
I’m so mad at him right now. I just want to scream at him “what the he** are you doing? Snap out of it!!
Of course even if I ask him to meet to talk, I won’t do that. I am committed to reflect compassion, peace, and contentment. The love of Christ. Let my inner joy shine.
I need to find it first.
DnJ - I still find myself trying not to care, and I'm struggling hard today.
DeJa - just when I think I've accepted my sitch and am o.k. with it, I find I'm not.
Gerda - 2 Corinthians 12:9 is spot on. I'm putting it in my journal to remind myself it's in these times, we can find ourselves closer to God.
*******************
Journaling. I need some support and sage advice. I didn't edit a lot, so excuse my stream of consciousness.
Back from a wonderful vacation. Connected with family, and friends. Back to reality tomorrow.
Recently I ended a post with a question: “I wonder what tomorrow will bring?”
That post was so full of peace. Contentment. What happened to that person?
She is struggling today.
H was on my mind a lot during the trip. I posted about it. Wondering if I’m done is weighing heavily on my mind. I thought a lot about asking H to meet to discuss whether it’s time to have a more formal separation. He’s got a girlfriend and his own place. I don’t go over there. It’s starting to bug me he can come and go as he pleases here. He’s starting to detach from taking care of the yard. I’ve been doing some of it. I don’t think he believes I do a good job. He wondered if he should look into a lawn service.
H is adopted, and I’m close with his birth mother. She lives out of the country. I’m close to her, and phone her regularly. I don’t pump her for info about H, but I found out today (from her) that he is visiting and bringing OW. I guessed and she confirmed. Apparently OW asked to go, and H wanted his birth mother’s blessing he could bring her. She could hear I was upset. She of course wants to stay out of it. But, this woman hasn’t seen her grand kids in several years. She’s 83 years old. You would think he would bring the kids. I find myself really quite upset about this!
I hate that I’m very upset about this.
She also said he was moving to a new apartment. Getting a place with OW? I don’t know. But, seems to me if he does, he’s made his decision.
I have thoughts of wanting to embarrass him, hurt him (badly), of telling the kids, and giving him a piece of my mind. Ugly thoughts. I don’t like it.
Why can’t he just make a decision? I don’t want to. Do I have to?
I think that pursuing a D, or pressuring H to make a decision, won’t really change my path, and may even complicate it. I don’t want to avoid addressing our situation and perhaps pursue a more formal S or even D for the wrong reasons either – fear of dealing with the difficult; being the one to end the marriage in my kids eyes. I don’t want them to blame ME.
I was so confident of my stand 2 weeks ago. What the heck changed? Maybe because I stopped my running dialogue with God over the vacation. I really fell off the wagon in that department.
D19 had a major melt down on the phone last night with me. She was home along during my vacation. She is really struggling. With work and other things. She struggles with making friends too. She’s a bit shy, so it was very quiet around here I’m sure. I was really worried she was having a nervous breakdown. When I saw her today she seemed much better. She sure is happy I’m home. I don’t want her to use me to fill her life, though. That worries me a bit. But, I certainly am here for her. I also suggested she see her therapist regularly when she gets back to school. She agreed. I messaged H briefly about it. His response? “She seemed fine when I saw her today.” He added that he agreed maybe she needs therapy. That was it.
I’m so mad at him right now. I just want to scream at him “what the he** are you doing? Snap out of it!!
Of course even if I ask him to meet to talk, I won’t do that. I am committed to reflect compassion, peace, and contentment. The love of Christ. Let my inner joy shine.
I need to find it first.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/10/19 01:15 AM
Originally Posted by Grace21
That post was so full of peace. Contentment. What happened to that person?
She is struggling today.
She is struggling today.
Your name says what you need to accept for yourself. Grace. Allow God's grace to cover you. The struggle is real. You are still you. This is a terrible circumstance you are in, don't beat yourself up over how hard it is. You wouldn't judge anyone else going through the same. In fact, what would you tell your friend if she asked these questions?
Originally Posted by Grace21
I hate that I’m very upset about this.
Of COURSE you are upset. They are feelings. They are yours and they don't make you who you are or define your identity. They are your feelings. If you fight against them or try and deny them, you might get stuck. Accept that these are your feelings and work through them. Again - grace.
Originally Posted by Grace21
She also said he was moving to a new apartment. Getting a place with OW? I don’t know. But, seems to me if he does, he’s made his decision.
I have thoughts of wanting to embarrass him, hurt him (badly), of telling the kids, and giving him a piece of my mind. Ugly thoughts. I don’t like it.
I have thoughts of wanting to embarrass him, hurt him (badly), of telling the kids, and giving him a piece of my mind. Ugly thoughts. I don’t like it.
You are not alone. You know what you can do with those thoughts, take them captive and replace them with good thoughts. Focus on the good.
Originally Posted by Grace21
Why can’t he just make a decision? I don’t want to. Do I have to?
He is not in control of what you do. YOU are. Don't give him power over your responses to his behavior.
Originally Posted by Grace21
I was so confident of my stand 2 weeks ago. What the heck changed? Maybe because I stopped my running dialogue with God over the vacation. I really fell off the wagon in that department.
That's what happens to me. If I don't stay in touch, I feel bad. Sometimes, though, it just hurts like hades and there's nothing for it but to go through it and take care of ourselves. Remember "this is a marathon not a sprint" like they say here all the time!!
Originally Posted by Grace21
I also suggested she see her therapist regularly when she gets back to school. She agreed. I messaged H briefly about it. His response? “She seemed fine when I saw her today.” He added that he agreed maybe she needs therapy. That was it.
I’m so mad at him right now. I just want to scream at him “what the he** are you doing? Snap out of it!!
I’m so mad at him right now. I just want to scream at him “what the he** are you doing? Snap out of it!!
That would be frustrating for any parent. We would all love to scream at them - unfortunately I have and I'll just go ahead and tell ya, it was less than effective ; )
Originally Posted by Grace21
Of course even if I ask him to meet to talk, I won’t do that. I am committed to reflect compassion, peace, and contentment. The love of Christ. Let my inner joy shine.
I need to find it first.
I need to find it first.
You will find it again. This is a valley. I will pray for you tonight.
I don't want to sound like I have all the answers. I ask all of these questions myself and have some of the same emotions around this. Sometimes it's easier to answer others' questions and we get stuck in our own sitch.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/10/19 03:15 PM
Thank you Hope for your words of support, kindness and advice. I appreciate it.
Thank you for this reminder. I am letting his actions have power over me. It’s that fear that DnJ speaks of. I feel like satan is working overtime to get to me. I don’t want him or H to have that power.
After my vacation, I was catching up on my devotions last night. I get daily devotions e-mailed to me. The one I clicked on last night was titled “Replace your Fear with Trust”. This is the devotional:
“And he did rescue us from mortal danger, and he will rescue us again. We have placed our confidence in him, and he will continue to rescue us” (2 Corinthians 1:10 NLT).
God is watching over you, so don’t listen to your fears. This is a choice. Trust God, and don’t give in to your fears.
God’s promise to believers is that, no matter what happens to us, he is working for our good—if we love him and follow him (Romans 8:28). If you're a believer, the Bible says all things are working together for good—not that all things are good but they are working together for good.
That means we can stop listening to our fears, because there is no difficulty, dilemma, defeat, or disaster in the life of a believer that God can’t ultimately get some good out of. There is no need to fear the future.
Your fears reveal where you do not trust God. Today, make a list of your fears, and ask God to help you identify why you have fear in those areas. Then, ask him to help you replace your fears with trust.
Now, this is important: Expect God to start helping you learn to trust him with each fear. Then, watch to see how he helps you.
************************
I don’t believe it’s a coincidence that I was behind on my emails and read this message from June 26 last night. God of course was trying to get my attention.
I cried last night. Hard. I just felt tired. I’m tired of being strong. For myself. For my kids. I’m in the middle of the marathon, and I’m feeling it. Isn’t that when marathoner’s feel like quitting? About in the middle? Having never ran one, I don’t know. But, I’ve run a few 5ks, and I had to dig deep to break the psychological barrier to completing the race. I always did.
Even after sleeping on it I’m leaning towards opening a R conversation with H, and let the chips fall where they may. I’m praying for guidance, so we will see.
However, this morning I did send an e-mail to H’s birth mother. The new Me is learning to express feelings and get things out in the open when the event happens, rather than festering, causing resentment. I did that with my friend on my trip, too. The old me would brush things under the rug and smooth things over. It was very bad for my marriage.
I expressed how I felt betrayed by her for her accepting Hs girlfriend in her home. She is very religious, and I just told her I was surprised because this would go against her Christian beliefs. There was a lot more, and I was very kind and told her I was in no way trying to influence the events, but felt it important to tell her how I feel. I’m glad I did. We’ll see if she responds, but I am good either way.
Something else that I’ve been wondering about. Why keep OW such a secret? He still has “married to me” on his FB page, with pictures of us still on. Makes me wonder if she pushed for something more open (i.e. meet the kids, etc), then would H balk? I’m thinking her asking to go to see his mom is her inserting herself more into his life. I wonder if he sees that? Well, I guess this is part of the “time will give answers”.
But, do I want to wait to be chosen as 2nd best option? Would it be at this point if he said he wanted to try to R?
Too many questions.
I’m getting impatient for answers.
Maye I’ll never get them.
I want to get to the point where I’m o.k. with that.
Not there yet.
Originally Posted by 97Hope
He is not in control of what you do. YOU are. Don't give him power over your responses to his behavior.
Thank you for this reminder. I am letting his actions have power over me. It’s that fear that DnJ speaks of. I feel like satan is working overtime to get to me. I don’t want him or H to have that power.
After my vacation, I was catching up on my devotions last night. I get daily devotions e-mailed to me. The one I clicked on last night was titled “Replace your Fear with Trust”. This is the devotional:
“And he did rescue us from mortal danger, and he will rescue us again. We have placed our confidence in him, and he will continue to rescue us” (2 Corinthians 1:10 NLT).
God is watching over you, so don’t listen to your fears. This is a choice. Trust God, and don’t give in to your fears.
God’s promise to believers is that, no matter what happens to us, he is working for our good—if we love him and follow him (Romans 8:28). If you're a believer, the Bible says all things are working together for good—not that all things are good but they are working together for good.
That means we can stop listening to our fears, because there is no difficulty, dilemma, defeat, or disaster in the life of a believer that God can’t ultimately get some good out of. There is no need to fear the future.
Your fears reveal where you do not trust God. Today, make a list of your fears, and ask God to help you identify why you have fear in those areas. Then, ask him to help you replace your fears with trust.
Now, this is important: Expect God to start helping you learn to trust him with each fear. Then, watch to see how he helps you.
************************
I don’t believe it’s a coincidence that I was behind on my emails and read this message from June 26 last night. God of course was trying to get my attention.
I cried last night. Hard. I just felt tired. I’m tired of being strong. For myself. For my kids. I’m in the middle of the marathon, and I’m feeling it. Isn’t that when marathoner’s feel like quitting? About in the middle? Having never ran one, I don’t know. But, I’ve run a few 5ks, and I had to dig deep to break the psychological barrier to completing the race. I always did.
Even after sleeping on it I’m leaning towards opening a R conversation with H, and let the chips fall where they may. I’m praying for guidance, so we will see.
However, this morning I did send an e-mail to H’s birth mother. The new Me is learning to express feelings and get things out in the open when the event happens, rather than festering, causing resentment. I did that with my friend on my trip, too. The old me would brush things under the rug and smooth things over. It was very bad for my marriage.
I expressed how I felt betrayed by her for her accepting Hs girlfriend in her home. She is very religious, and I just told her I was surprised because this would go against her Christian beliefs. There was a lot more, and I was very kind and told her I was in no way trying to influence the events, but felt it important to tell her how I feel. I’m glad I did. We’ll see if she responds, but I am good either way.
Something else that I’ve been wondering about. Why keep OW such a secret? He still has “married to me” on his FB page, with pictures of us still on. Makes me wonder if she pushed for something more open (i.e. meet the kids, etc), then would H balk? I’m thinking her asking to go to see his mom is her inserting herself more into his life. I wonder if he sees that? Well, I guess this is part of the “time will give answers”.
But, do I want to wait to be chosen as 2nd best option? Would it be at this point if he said he wanted to try to R?
Too many questions.
I’m getting impatient for answers.
Maye I’ll never get them.
I want to get to the point where I’m o.k. with that.
Not there yet.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/10/19 09:37 PM
The more she puts pressure on him, the faster he will want to get away from her. Let her put the pressure on. You can take it completely off.
I read through the lighthouse and Sandi's rules.
I have the same questions you do. I've never even run for 5 min let alone a 5k - so I don't know, but I know that today my DIL sent me this:
"When I wanted to give up, God told me to get up."
I would pray long and hard about an R conversation. If timing is wrong - it's a disaster. You can see what he's doing, but he is lost right now. I know this from experience. You think that if you say the right thing, you will get clarity. H has nothing to give you right now.
Focus on what is working for you Peace. I don't believe in coincidence. I believe that God's timing is perfect. I was reminded of that today - by you!
We don't always get the answers but we can rest in the One who knows it all. That's what I do with my questions - I drag them back to Him. Sometimes multiple times a day. Then I get tired of doing that and get busy with GAL and self-care.
I'm blessed to read your updates. I hope you know that.
hugs
I read through the lighthouse and Sandi's rules.
I have the same questions you do. I've never even run for 5 min let alone a 5k - so I don't know, but I know that today my DIL sent me this:
"When I wanted to give up, God told me to get up."
I would pray long and hard about an R conversation. If timing is wrong - it's a disaster. You can see what he's doing, but he is lost right now. I know this from experience. You think that if you say the right thing, you will get clarity. H has nothing to give you right now.
Focus on what is working for you Peace. I don't believe in coincidence. I believe that God's timing is perfect. I was reminded of that today - by you!
We don't always get the answers but we can rest in the One who knows it all. That's what I do with my questions - I drag them back to Him. Sometimes multiple times a day. Then I get tired of doing that and get busy with GAL and self-care.
I'm blessed to read your updates. I hope you know that.
hugs
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/11/19 01:58 AM
Originally Posted by 97Hope
I read through the lighthouse and Sandi's rules.
I can't find these. Could you please give me the links? Thanks.
Originally Posted by 97Hope
The more she puts pressure on him, the faster he will want to get away from her. Let her put the pressure on. You can take it completely off.
I often wondered if this was really true, or are they developing a deeper connection (no matter how screwed up and damaged) as they go along. I sometimes feel like a fool, a bit embarrassed by the whole thing. Like I'm waiting around saying "pick" me" "pick me". I said to a friend just a few days ago that when her house sells, this will be the big push for her to have H commit, and more answers may come. It's been on the market for 1 1/2 years! She is still married too. Her H is seeing someone too. It blows my mind so many people can just do this with seemingly no problem.
Makes me wonder who (if anyone) will file for D first.
I won't be me, I don't think.
Originally Posted by 97Hope
You think that if you say the right thing, you will get clarity. H has nothing to give you right now.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I'm almost desperate for clarity. Understanding the why. Getting a glimpse of my future. Wanting H to choose a path (to me?). I need to come to terms with the fact I may not ever get any of these things.
Hope - You've given me more to think about, and helped me narrow down the areas I need to work on.
Thanks.
Grace
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/11/19 08:32 PM
Grace
You are doing well-
You are really gaining clarity day by day
and time will make things clearer--his path--your path
and then one day --its over-
life opens up new doors and closes some too
we just need the willingness to wait and watch and take care of ourselves
People are so desperate to be loved that they will engage in affairs but the affair partner is usually not a good pick
and chances of it working are slim and even if they stay together-it may be a horrible relationship
I do not believe the MLCer ever creates a good relationship with anyone-
2 half people do not make a whole-
You are doing well-
You are really gaining clarity day by day
and time will make things clearer--his path--your path
and then one day --its over-
life opens up new doors and closes some too
we just need the willingness to wait and watch and take care of ourselves
People are so desperate to be loved that they will engage in affairs but the affair partner is usually not a good pick
and chances of it working are slim and even if they stay together-it may be a horrible relationship
I do not believe the MLCer ever creates a good relationship with anyone-
2 half people do not make a whole-
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/12/19 12:09 PM
97Hope and Grace,
I deleted the reference to another site name because one of the Board policies is that we agree not to post and/or reference other sites or post links to them.
I deleted the reference to another site name because one of the Board policies is that we agree not to post and/or reference other sites or post links to them.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/13/19 07:10 PM
Journaling....
This is Part 1 of 2. It's lengthy so I split it up. As I write this, Part 2 hasn't happened yet. That's scheduled in 1 hour. Wish me luck!
After much soul searching, praying, discussion with a trusted friend, and divine intervention, I decided that I would meet with H and get on the record that his behavior with his girlfriend is not o.k., and that if that was the path he chose for now, we need to move for a more formal separation. I think I deserve my privacy in my own home, and the kids deserve more clarity. I’ve had 10 months to develop my clarity, the kids have not. They are hurting, badly. Especially my daughter. She doesn’t mention H, but I have to believe our sitch and his ignoring her plays a big role.
So as I already posted, I was very anxious during my vacation. For seemingly no reason. After I found out about H bringing OW to meet his mother, I called a trusted friend. She gave me so much clarity on my next course of action. I know this is not the DBing thing to do, but I realized that I have hit the moment where I needed to express to H that his actions are not o.k. I also realized that even though anxiety is running rampant, I am prepared for any outcome my discussion with him would bring.
That night, after talking with my friend, I woke up at 3 a.m. and couldn’t get back to sleep. I decided to read my bible. I sometimes write versus or prayers in my journal, so I turned to the latest entry. This is the last entry, undated, with no reference to where I heard it or read it:
“I was silent and I held my peace to no avail, and my distress only grew worse”. Psalm 39:2
This is the place I have finally come. I finally feel the need to share with my H. Be real, authentic, and honest. The burden of not expressing myself has become too much. It’s keeping me a bit stuck.
Prior to my late afternoon meeting (which as I write this is in 1 hours), D19 and I spent a morning and early afternoon shopping and a wonderful seafood lunch down by the water (although my stomach was so nervous I couldn’t eat much). She said over and over how great it was to spend time with me. I was glad for the distraction, and being with her seeing her happy made my heart melt. We chatted a bit about her anxiety, and how I hoped she would seek help immediately if she felt overwhelmed at school. She shared she saw a counselor there, and talked about her dad. I did not pry. She does not know I will see him later today, but I did say that dad is in a crisis, and I think we need to be prepared for the worst. She said she already had. I plan to get her into regular counseling with a therapist that’s not on campus to see her through the storm. She was receptive.
So the time is near. Nervous is an understatement. Anyway, I look good. I think real good. Thought that couldn’t hurt. Two friends messaged me words of encouragement and support. So thankful for them! As I write this I’m sad for H. He has no friends. OW is it, I’m 100% certain.
Off I go. I’m hoping to get there before H so I can choose the spot in the restaurant. I have to drop D19 off at work first, so it will be close.
I have no prediction whatsoever on how the course of events will unfold. I plan to read something I wrote after asking him is there is anything he would like to say. I believe I'm ready for any reaction. One doesn't really know until the event, does one?
More to come.
Grace
This is Part 1 of 2. It's lengthy so I split it up. As I write this, Part 2 hasn't happened yet. That's scheduled in 1 hour. Wish me luck!
After much soul searching, praying, discussion with a trusted friend, and divine intervention, I decided that I would meet with H and get on the record that his behavior with his girlfriend is not o.k., and that if that was the path he chose for now, we need to move for a more formal separation. I think I deserve my privacy in my own home, and the kids deserve more clarity. I’ve had 10 months to develop my clarity, the kids have not. They are hurting, badly. Especially my daughter. She doesn’t mention H, but I have to believe our sitch and his ignoring her plays a big role.
So as I already posted, I was very anxious during my vacation. For seemingly no reason. After I found out about H bringing OW to meet his mother, I called a trusted friend. She gave me so much clarity on my next course of action. I know this is not the DBing thing to do, but I realized that I have hit the moment where I needed to express to H that his actions are not o.k. I also realized that even though anxiety is running rampant, I am prepared for any outcome my discussion with him would bring.
That night, after talking with my friend, I woke up at 3 a.m. and couldn’t get back to sleep. I decided to read my bible. I sometimes write versus or prayers in my journal, so I turned to the latest entry. This is the last entry, undated, with no reference to where I heard it or read it:
“I was silent and I held my peace to no avail, and my distress only grew worse”. Psalm 39:2
This is the place I have finally come. I finally feel the need to share with my H. Be real, authentic, and honest. The burden of not expressing myself has become too much. It’s keeping me a bit stuck.
Prior to my late afternoon meeting (which as I write this is in 1 hours), D19 and I spent a morning and early afternoon shopping and a wonderful seafood lunch down by the water (although my stomach was so nervous I couldn’t eat much). She said over and over how great it was to spend time with me. I was glad for the distraction, and being with her seeing her happy made my heart melt. We chatted a bit about her anxiety, and how I hoped she would seek help immediately if she felt overwhelmed at school. She shared she saw a counselor there, and talked about her dad. I did not pry. She does not know I will see him later today, but I did say that dad is in a crisis, and I think we need to be prepared for the worst. She said she already had. I plan to get her into regular counseling with a therapist that’s not on campus to see her through the storm. She was receptive.
So the time is near. Nervous is an understatement. Anyway, I look good. I think real good. Thought that couldn’t hurt. Two friends messaged me words of encouragement and support. So thankful for them! As I write this I’m sad for H. He has no friends. OW is it, I’m 100% certain.
Off I go. I’m hoping to get there before H so I can choose the spot in the restaurant. I have to drop D19 off at work first, so it will be close.
I have no prediction whatsoever on how the course of events will unfold. I plan to read something I wrote after asking him is there is anything he would like to say. I believe I'm ready for any reaction. One doesn't really know until the event, does one?
More to come.
Grace
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/13/19 08:27 PM
Quote
I know this is not the DBing thing to do, but I realized that I have hit the moment where I needed to express to H that his actions are not o.k
You have DBing all wrong - it is NOT about being a doormat without healthy boundaries.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/13/19 08:29 PM
Wishing you good luck. I hope he listens or at least takes away from the meeting what your intent was, i.e., your children and the concerns that they have about what is going on. I pray that his "fog" will lift enough to truly listen to what you are telling him.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/14/19 05:44 AM
Grace, you are feeling the burden. It seems to be going around, Nyla was the same.
Maybe you can read what I wrote to her. It's the same for you. You think you are going to wake H up. You aren't going to wake him up. You're just going to get yourself riled up.
I think that the only thing you can do at this juncture is decide that as long as he is with an OW, he can't visit your house. You can make boundaries. You can't tell him what to do. You can only set a limit on what you are willing to do.
And you don't have to tell him about it. Just tell God. Write a letter to H but don't give it to him. Write it and then set it on the river and watch it float away. Or burn it. Or bury it or read it out loud in an empty church and ask God to deliver it to him in a dream.
You don't have to make an announcement. Just choose for yourself. And if H shows up, you tell him you need to have your own space while he is pursuing his own life outside your marriage. You can even say, "Out of respect for our marriage, I can't see you while you are with another woman, but I will always pray for you and for our marriage."
Other people here won't agree with that but I have found that making that clear about the door being open has helped me find peace and have no regrets.
My son has come in and wants to go for a walk though it's almost 2 am. So I will sign off with love to you my friend. Come over for coffee tomorrow morning and I will give you a hug! : )
Maybe you can read what I wrote to her. It's the same for you. You think you are going to wake H up. You aren't going to wake him up. You're just going to get yourself riled up.
I think that the only thing you can do at this juncture is decide that as long as he is with an OW, he can't visit your house. You can make boundaries. You can't tell him what to do. You can only set a limit on what you are willing to do.
And you don't have to tell him about it. Just tell God. Write a letter to H but don't give it to him. Write it and then set it on the river and watch it float away. Or burn it. Or bury it or read it out loud in an empty church and ask God to deliver it to him in a dream.
You don't have to make an announcement. Just choose for yourself. And if H shows up, you tell him you need to have your own space while he is pursuing his own life outside your marriage. You can even say, "Out of respect for our marriage, I can't see you while you are with another woman, but I will always pray for you and for our marriage."
Other people here won't agree with that but I have found that making that clear about the door being open has helped me find peace and have no regrets.
My son has come in and wants to go for a walk though it's almost 2 am. So I will sign off with love to you my friend. Come over for coffee tomorrow morning and I will give you a hug! : )
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/14/19 03:44 PM
Part II: (sorry, very long)
Meeting over. We spent about 1 hr 15 min there. We each had 1 beer. He was sitting at the bar when I arrived. I asked to be moved to a booth for privacy. He then looked worried.
There is way too much that occurred to include here, but I’ll pick the bits I remember more specifics on.
So, this is what I read to him:
H -
When I asked you to move out, I was hoping time and space would allow you to find yourself, and figure out how you want the rest of your life to look. I still stand by that, and understand that it is a difficult process and may not be anywhere near complete. Only you can decide that. I believed that I was giving you a gift. A gift of time and space to find yourself.
Although we are not living together, we are still married. You are still my husband, and I am your wife. We have 28 years of marriage, and 2 wonderful kids. I felt it was time for me to be true, authentic, and honest with you about our situation.
You are bringing your girlfriend to meet your mother. I can only assume you will also be seeing your cousins. I would like to know why you think this is the right thing to do. Because to me, it’s insanity. We are still married. I have loved your family like my own, and to me this is the epitome of disrespect. And I don’t think I deserve that. Our kids don’t deserve that. I have given you your time to start the process of figuring out your life, but I am not o.k. with your choice to ignore our vows, the fact that we are still married, and openly have a relationship with (OW). I can’t imagine anyone thinking this is o.k., including you and (OW).
Then I said ‘I’d like to hear what you have to say about that”.
True to the MLCr’s M.O., he tried to blame and OW, had excuses. He said “it’s not what you think”. He tried to explain that he wasn’t bringing her specifically to “meet his mom”. That she pressured him into him agreeing to go, and he caved. I called bull on that, that he could easily go himself and just tell her “no”. I told him I see his mom as my own, and I wanted him to know it’s like a nail in my heart that he would bring her to his mother’s home. There was a lot more back and forth over this. It got heated at first, but we both calmed down rather quickly.
I then made the mistake of saying that “I also understand you will be getting a new apartment. I’d like to know your plans for that, and whether she is moving in too.” This was too much after our lengthy discussion of him and OW. He blew up, and demanded to know where I was getting my information. I think he thought OW was feeding it to me. I was truthful, and told him. He said OW was looking for places, but he hasn’t agreed or participated. Hmmm. Don’t believe that. Maybe, maybe not. I have evidence to the contrary possibly. A hard check on his credit. We’ll see. I told him that every decision he’s making is moving towards her, and not his family, and maybe it’s time for the kids to know what’s going on, that he is establishing his own life apart from me. That their limbo isn’t fair. He thinks that it is none of their business and they are mainly at school anyway and it doesn’t affect them. I disagreed, and I told him that if he proceeds to live with her, they will be told. He’s not happy about it, I assure you. He doesn’t want to see that they are hurt, because he knows he’s the source.
In between all this, he broke down several times. He was really trying to control the tears. He is in such a dark, dark place, and I know he doesn’t know how to find his way out. I could feel his despair and turmoil very acutely. He mentioned disappearing, death, etc. I just listened. I wonder if rock bottom is near. I think he’s been hovering over it for a very long time. He expressed in general terms all the terrible things he’s done. We talked about choices pushing us to our destiny (he had posted something on FB related to this a few days ago). I asked him to think about what destiny he wanted, and that I had hoped he could find one small step he can make towards that. He listened.
He has such blinders on for our marriage. Typical MLCr stuff. The one and only thing he could say ”bad” about our marriage (and he’s said it many, many times before) was that “I never desired him. I believe this was in the context of why I would want to be married to him (I never said in the convo I did or didn't), and I’m happier without him and it was “obvious” I never had desire for him. I told him I was sorry he believed that for so many years. Not true, but in his mind, he believes it strongly. I asked him if he remembered any time when it was very evident I did desired him. He said no. I reminded him of a time about 9 years ago when we made a big effort to put all our energy into each other, and reminded him how he knew I was turned on. I also told him that for much of our married life, I got nothing from his to feed that desire. He actually agreed. He told me that he has thought a lot about how he failed in so many ways as a husband that wasn’t fair to me. That he knows he was a terrible husband to me. . For most of our marriage I told him I appreciated him saying that.
He also made a very declarative statement “I’m depressed. Clinically depressed”. He has done nothing to start the healing process in that regard though. He shared that he doesn’t have a single friend, and said he sees how all our friends have rallied with me and ignored him. I did not fall into the guilt trap. I refuse, because I know it’s not my fault. I reminded him our best friend reached out to him, but he only said “thanks” and never reached out back. His choices. He said he sees how happy I am, much happier without him. I shared a little bit about my journey these past 10 months, and how I found my inner happiness (and gave a few examples). I shared that I hoped the same for him, whether his journey included me or not.
He told me he loved me, that he always loved me and still does. I told him I loved him too. We held hands across the table. He said he was feeling so much pressure from himself, OW, everyone. That he was happiest when he was alone. I asked about what pressure he had from me. He made a comment about every time he comes over, I bring up something. I heard that loud and clear, and will make sure I adhere to that DBing principal going forward.
This is his journey, and he seemed to really take in at least a some of what we talked about. It’s a lot to process.
I don’t know, nor will I ask, if anything I said will change his plans. My intent for the meeting was not to throw down the gauntlet. And I didn't. It was for being real, expressing to H that his behavior is not o.k. with me. Towards the end I even said “OW’s H is having an affair, she’s having an affair with you, you’re having an affair, and OW and her H still live together and have no plans for D (because she needs the health insurance, apparently). That’s insanity! Really f’d up!” He said “yes it is”.
One thing very clear to me, though. OW definitely is not his key to happiness. He knows it too. Perhaps the seed to understanding that only he holds that key was planted. Only time will tell. Time will also tell whether he can overcome his fear of turning the key to unlock what’s inside. To face it.
If he gets a place with OW, I may pursue more formal separation arrangements. I need to process this first. Time, time, time. I am going to pay very close attention to our finances, too, in spite of his promises that he will “always take care of me and the kids”.
But, I feel a heavy burden lifted from my shoulder’s and soul.
These are the things I learned yesterday:
1. My fear of addressing difficult issues is now gone. That is a burden lifted, and a 180 for me.
2. H is in the depths of despair. He is lonely, miserable, and profoundly depressed. He may be hitting rock bottom.
3. H has a clear understanding that I do not believe his behavior with OW is o.k. (I believe he thought that my saying nothing and H seeing how happy I am said to him it was o.k. because I was getting on with my life). It’s lifted a burden from me now that I actually said it to him.
4. H knows my compassion for his turmoil. Maybe this is the seed for him to realize he really is not 100% alone.
5. I am in a good place. I’ve accepted that H is still on his own journey. I will continue mine.
6. I still have enough love and compassion for him to help H on his journey if he chooses to ask for it. He knows that I’m here even if the journey does not bring R. He knows I want him in a better place for himself.
7. H has made some progress. I don’t believe he recognizes it as such, but to be I think it’s very important. He realizes and is proud of the fact that he can take care of himself (i.e. cook, shop, do laundry, etc). Basics. He realizes, and admitted out loud, he is clinically depressed. He realizes how awful he was to me throughout most of our marriage, and admits he was a terrible husband. He has shown remorse to me for this.
About 1 hour after our meeting, he sent me an email: “Not an easy conversation to have, but I appreciate your honesty.”
This morning, he took the kids to breakfast. I saw him. We spoke for a while. Chit chat and a bit about the kids. He told me that he had a good conversation with the kids, that they are adults, and he wants them to not just look at him as “dad”, but as an adult man that makes mistakes and has flaws just like everyone else. That he sees them as adults, and that he (and I) are stepping back for them to make their own decisions. He seemed very pleased about it as he said they were receptive. There was no talk about his crisis or OW, however. And for now, I don’t think I will speak to the kids about it.
Time will bring answers.
I am holding the Lord’s hand, and letting Him show me the path as my journey continues.
Grace
Meeting over. We spent about 1 hr 15 min there. We each had 1 beer. He was sitting at the bar when I arrived. I asked to be moved to a booth for privacy. He then looked worried.
There is way too much that occurred to include here, but I’ll pick the bits I remember more specifics on.
So, this is what I read to him:
H -
When I asked you to move out, I was hoping time and space would allow you to find yourself, and figure out how you want the rest of your life to look. I still stand by that, and understand that it is a difficult process and may not be anywhere near complete. Only you can decide that. I believed that I was giving you a gift. A gift of time and space to find yourself.
Although we are not living together, we are still married. You are still my husband, and I am your wife. We have 28 years of marriage, and 2 wonderful kids. I felt it was time for me to be true, authentic, and honest with you about our situation.
You are bringing your girlfriend to meet your mother. I can only assume you will also be seeing your cousins. I would like to know why you think this is the right thing to do. Because to me, it’s insanity. We are still married. I have loved your family like my own, and to me this is the epitome of disrespect. And I don’t think I deserve that. Our kids don’t deserve that. I have given you your time to start the process of figuring out your life, but I am not o.k. with your choice to ignore our vows, the fact that we are still married, and openly have a relationship with (OW). I can’t imagine anyone thinking this is o.k., including you and (OW).
Then I said ‘I’d like to hear what you have to say about that”.
True to the MLCr’s M.O., he tried to blame and OW, had excuses. He said “it’s not what you think”. He tried to explain that he wasn’t bringing her specifically to “meet his mom”. That she pressured him into him agreeing to go, and he caved. I called bull on that, that he could easily go himself and just tell her “no”. I told him I see his mom as my own, and I wanted him to know it’s like a nail in my heart that he would bring her to his mother’s home. There was a lot more back and forth over this. It got heated at first, but we both calmed down rather quickly.
I then made the mistake of saying that “I also understand you will be getting a new apartment. I’d like to know your plans for that, and whether she is moving in too.” This was too much after our lengthy discussion of him and OW. He blew up, and demanded to know where I was getting my information. I think he thought OW was feeding it to me. I was truthful, and told him. He said OW was looking for places, but he hasn’t agreed or participated. Hmmm. Don’t believe that. Maybe, maybe not. I have evidence to the contrary possibly. A hard check on his credit. We’ll see. I told him that every decision he’s making is moving towards her, and not his family, and maybe it’s time for the kids to know what’s going on, that he is establishing his own life apart from me. That their limbo isn’t fair. He thinks that it is none of their business and they are mainly at school anyway and it doesn’t affect them. I disagreed, and I told him that if he proceeds to live with her, they will be told. He’s not happy about it, I assure you. He doesn’t want to see that they are hurt, because he knows he’s the source.
In between all this, he broke down several times. He was really trying to control the tears. He is in such a dark, dark place, and I know he doesn’t know how to find his way out. I could feel his despair and turmoil very acutely. He mentioned disappearing, death, etc. I just listened. I wonder if rock bottom is near. I think he’s been hovering over it for a very long time. He expressed in general terms all the terrible things he’s done. We talked about choices pushing us to our destiny (he had posted something on FB related to this a few days ago). I asked him to think about what destiny he wanted, and that I had hoped he could find one small step he can make towards that. He listened.
He has such blinders on for our marriage. Typical MLCr stuff. The one and only thing he could say ”bad” about our marriage (and he’s said it many, many times before) was that “I never desired him. I believe this was in the context of why I would want to be married to him (I never said in the convo I did or didn't), and I’m happier without him and it was “obvious” I never had desire for him. I told him I was sorry he believed that for so many years. Not true, but in his mind, he believes it strongly. I asked him if he remembered any time when it was very evident I did desired him. He said no. I reminded him of a time about 9 years ago when we made a big effort to put all our energy into each other, and reminded him how he knew I was turned on. I also told him that for much of our married life, I got nothing from his to feed that desire. He actually agreed. He told me that he has thought a lot about how he failed in so many ways as a husband that wasn’t fair to me. That he knows he was a terrible husband to me. . For most of our marriage I told him I appreciated him saying that.
He also made a very declarative statement “I’m depressed. Clinically depressed”. He has done nothing to start the healing process in that regard though. He shared that he doesn’t have a single friend, and said he sees how all our friends have rallied with me and ignored him. I did not fall into the guilt trap. I refuse, because I know it’s not my fault. I reminded him our best friend reached out to him, but he only said “thanks” and never reached out back. His choices. He said he sees how happy I am, much happier without him. I shared a little bit about my journey these past 10 months, and how I found my inner happiness (and gave a few examples). I shared that I hoped the same for him, whether his journey included me or not.
He told me he loved me, that he always loved me and still does. I told him I loved him too. We held hands across the table. He said he was feeling so much pressure from himself, OW, everyone. That he was happiest when he was alone. I asked about what pressure he had from me. He made a comment about every time he comes over, I bring up something. I heard that loud and clear, and will make sure I adhere to that DBing principal going forward.
This is his journey, and he seemed to really take in at least a some of what we talked about. It’s a lot to process.
I don’t know, nor will I ask, if anything I said will change his plans. My intent for the meeting was not to throw down the gauntlet. And I didn't. It was for being real, expressing to H that his behavior is not o.k. with me. Towards the end I even said “OW’s H is having an affair, she’s having an affair with you, you’re having an affair, and OW and her H still live together and have no plans for D (because she needs the health insurance, apparently). That’s insanity! Really f’d up!” He said “yes it is”.
One thing very clear to me, though. OW definitely is not his key to happiness. He knows it too. Perhaps the seed to understanding that only he holds that key was planted. Only time will tell. Time will also tell whether he can overcome his fear of turning the key to unlock what’s inside. To face it.
If he gets a place with OW, I may pursue more formal separation arrangements. I need to process this first. Time, time, time. I am going to pay very close attention to our finances, too, in spite of his promises that he will “always take care of me and the kids”.
But, I feel a heavy burden lifted from my shoulder’s and soul.
These are the things I learned yesterday:
1. My fear of addressing difficult issues is now gone. That is a burden lifted, and a 180 for me.
2. H is in the depths of despair. He is lonely, miserable, and profoundly depressed. He may be hitting rock bottom.
3. H has a clear understanding that I do not believe his behavior with OW is o.k. (I believe he thought that my saying nothing and H seeing how happy I am said to him it was o.k. because I was getting on with my life). It’s lifted a burden from me now that I actually said it to him.
4. H knows my compassion for his turmoil. Maybe this is the seed for him to realize he really is not 100% alone.
5. I am in a good place. I’ve accepted that H is still on his own journey. I will continue mine.
6. I still have enough love and compassion for him to help H on his journey if he chooses to ask for it. He knows that I’m here even if the journey does not bring R. He knows I want him in a better place for himself.
7. H has made some progress. I don’t believe he recognizes it as such, but to be I think it’s very important. He realizes and is proud of the fact that he can take care of himself (i.e. cook, shop, do laundry, etc). Basics. He realizes, and admitted out loud, he is clinically depressed. He realizes how awful he was to me throughout most of our marriage, and admits he was a terrible husband. He has shown remorse to me for this.
About 1 hour after our meeting, he sent me an email: “Not an easy conversation to have, but I appreciate your honesty.”
This morning, he took the kids to breakfast. I saw him. We spoke for a while. Chit chat and a bit about the kids. He told me that he had a good conversation with the kids, that they are adults, and he wants them to not just look at him as “dad”, but as an adult man that makes mistakes and has flaws just like everyone else. That he sees them as adults, and that he (and I) are stepping back for them to make their own decisions. He seemed very pleased about it as he said they were receptive. There was no talk about his crisis or OW, however. And for now, I don’t think I will speak to the kids about it.
Time will bring answers.
I am holding the Lord’s hand, and letting Him show me the path as my journey continues.
Grace
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/14/19 05:51 PM
Ok , now that you've had your say (and you did well) you need to let go and focus on YOUR life. Are you living your dreams? If not, what is holding you back?
I know he said a lot of things that you might read as hopeful - but let's be real here. This is a man who has cheated on you 5 times (that you KNOW of) with two of those being long term affairs. He has deep serious problems beyond simple depression and you should NOT consider taking him back unless he has done a LOT of work (say, for example, a year of individual counseling and 12 step meetings for sex addiction).
More likely he has a personality disorder (like narcissism) or just a serious moral character defect.
Now I grew up Catholic and I understand people who would not date or marry again if their spouse divorced them. If those are your beliefs, then fine - that's your choice to make. But you must ask yourself why you don't believe you deserve more? Would you advise your daughter to stay in a relationship with a man who was a serial adulterer?
Despite everything he said yesterday, I predict he will move ahead with moving in with the OW. Let go or be dragged. Focus on YOUR life and let go of him - he is years away from being ready to reconcile, if ever.
I know he said a lot of things that you might read as hopeful - but let's be real here. This is a man who has cheated on you 5 times (that you KNOW of) with two of those being long term affairs. He has deep serious problems beyond simple depression and you should NOT consider taking him back unless he has done a LOT of work (say, for example, a year of individual counseling and 12 step meetings for sex addiction).
More likely he has a personality disorder (like narcissism) or just a serious moral character defect.
Now I grew up Catholic and I understand people who would not date or marry again if their spouse divorced them. If those are your beliefs, then fine - that's your choice to make. But you must ask yourself why you don't believe you deserve more? Would you advise your daughter to stay in a relationship with a man who was a serial adulterer?
Despite everything he said yesterday, I predict he will move ahead with moving in with the OW. Let go or be dragged. Focus on YOUR life and let go of him - he is years away from being ready to reconcile, if ever.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/14/19 06:12 PM
Grace, I think the conversation you had was amazing and full of blessings. God can heal anything and anyone, even all the things KML lists above. It's not about being Catholic or any other religion, though we know Christ offers something completely different. It's about trusting God with your life and everything in it. I don't know when you will be able to trust your H but I know when you can trust God. Now.
You did well and I am very happy for you. I dream of having a convo like that with my H. Or at least, I did. I am in a darker place now.
And yes, I think you are right to hear loud and clear about not bringing up anything anymore. You've said it and he can know now whatever he chooses to know. So now you can let go and trust the process, wherever it leads. He may well move in with OW, but she sounds perfect for this -- she will destroy it all by herself, just let her do it and keep being the wonderful Grace and grace that you are.
Love to you, Grace. I am happy for you, as hard as it was. You sound great and it went better than I thought it would. Now you need to pull a Phillipians 4, 4-9, esp 8-9.
XOXOXOXO
You did well and I am very happy for you. I dream of having a convo like that with my H. Or at least, I did. I am in a darker place now.
And yes, I think you are right to hear loud and clear about not bringing up anything anymore. You've said it and he can know now whatever he chooses to know. So now you can let go and trust the process, wherever it leads. He may well move in with OW, but she sounds perfect for this -- she will destroy it all by herself, just let her do it and keep being the wonderful Grace and grace that you are.
Love to you, Grace. I am happy for you, as hard as it was. You sound great and it went better than I thought it would. Now you need to pull a Phillipians 4, 4-9, esp 8-9.
XOXOXOXO
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/14/19 09:42 PM
Grace,
I, too, think you handled yourself very well and expressed your thoughts in a clear and concise manner. I am praying that your h will think often of the conversation and come to realize that the OW is not the key to his happiness.
I agree both w/what kml and Gerda have posted. Now, you need to step back and trust the process. I know it's hard to let go, but you have to put you faith and trust in the man upstairs to take it from here. You may not always see progress, but he is definitely working on your h. As they say "your h is a work in progress".
I, too, think you handled yourself very well and expressed your thoughts in a clear and concise manner. I am praying that your h will think often of the conversation and come to realize that the OW is not the key to his happiness.
I agree both w/what kml and Gerda have posted. Now, you need to step back and trust the process. I know it's hard to let go, but you have to put you faith and trust in the man upstairs to take it from here. You may not always see progress, but he is definitely working on your h. As they say "your h is a work in progress".
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/14/19 09:54 PM
Kml, Gerda, Job– thanks for your input. It’s appreciated and allows me to regroup and think about all perspectives.
I’ve been doing this very well for many months now. I travel, see friends, enjoy all the activities I love, am involved in ministry work, and am developing deeper relationships with my kids. My life is full.
I certainly don’t hopeful think it makes me hopeful he is open to R. On the contrary, I think he feels it will never happen. Sometimes (often) I do too. My hope is for him right now is to be receptive to take the steps towards a more fulfilled and happy life for himself. And that’s what I told him.
I agree with this 100%, and have no plans to take him back without results from hard work.
What I deserve is a happy, fulfilled life. I have found that. I am not desperate, and would not take back this broken man as he is today.
I agree. He probably will. And it will be a disaster. The real question I need to pray about is do I divulge to the kids that dad is shacking up with someone. I need to really consider what the purpose of that would be. If I file for D, or we work out an agreement where he is not welcome at the house, than I guess I would.
I believe this. But my prayer for his healing is not tied to whether we will R or not. That is another, separate, journey that needs to take it’s own course. I want him healed more than I want R.
Because of my convo with H yesterday, I feel my fear and anxiety mostly gone. That trust in God has returned, and I feel freer.
H sent me another e-mail just a few hours ago. It said “I won’t lie. It was a tough conversation but you gave me a lot to think about”.
I will let him think, and choose his own destiny. But I plan to be here if he needs someone to listen or just to have someone show him compassion. (Phillipains 4: 8-9). This does not, however, assume I would just “take him back” or R. I’ve come too far to go back.
This letting go and trusting the man upstairs to do his job has been a prayer of mine since the day H moved out. I struggled with the letting go. It's my nature to fix things. I'm finally at that place to turn it over to God. It's a burden that God willingly took on for me, and I'm grateful.
Originally Posted by kml
Ok , now that you've had your say (and you did well) you need to let go and focus on YOUR life. Are you living your dreams? If not, what is holding you back?
I’ve been doing this very well for many months now. I travel, see friends, enjoy all the activities I love, am involved in ministry work, and am developing deeper relationships with my kids. My life is full.
Originally Posted by kml
I know he said a lot of things that you might read as hopeful - but let's be real here.
I certainly don’t hopeful think it makes me hopeful he is open to R. On the contrary, I think he feels it will never happen. Sometimes (often) I do too. My hope is for him right now is to be receptive to take the steps towards a more fulfilled and happy life for himself. And that’s what I told him.
Originally Posted by kml
He has deep serious problems beyond simple depression and you should NOT consider taking him back unless he has done a LOT of work (say, for example, a year of individual counseling and 12 step meetings for sex addiction).
I agree with this 100%, and have no plans to take him back without results from hard work.
Originally Posted by kml
But you must ask yourself why you don't believe you deserve more?
What I deserve is a happy, fulfilled life. I have found that. I am not desperate, and would not take back this broken man as he is today.
Originally Posted by kml
Despite everything he said yesterday, I predict he will move ahead with moving in with the OW
Originally Posted by Gerda
He may well move in with OW, but she sounds perfect for this -- she will destroy it all by herself, just let her do it and keep being the wonderful Grace and grace that you are.
I agree. He probably will. And it will be a disaster. The real question I need to pray about is do I divulge to the kids that dad is shacking up with someone. I need to really consider what the purpose of that would be. If I file for D, or we work out an agreement where he is not welcome at the house, than I guess I would.
Originally Posted by Gerda
God can heal anything and anyone, even all the things KML lists above.
I believe this. But my prayer for his healing is not tied to whether we will R or not. That is another, separate, journey that needs to take it’s own course. I want him healed more than I want R.
Originally Posted by Gerda
It's about trusting God with your life and everything in it. I don't know when you will be able to trust your H but I know when you can trust God. Now.
Because of my convo with H yesterday, I feel my fear and anxiety mostly gone. That trust in God has returned, and I feel freer.
Originally Posted by Gerda
And yes, I think you are right to hear loud and clear about not bringing up anything anymore. You've said it and he can know now whatever he chooses to know. So now you can let go and trust the process, wherever it leads. .
H sent me another e-mail just a few hours ago. It said “I won’t lie. It was a tough conversation but you gave me a lot to think about”.
I will let him think, and choose his own destiny. But I plan to be here if he needs someone to listen or just to have someone show him compassion. (Phillipains 4: 8-9). This does not, however, assume I would just “take him back” or R. I’ve come too far to go back.
Originally Posted by job
Now, you need to step back and trust the process. I know it's hard to let go, but you have to put you faith and trust in the man upstairs to take it from here. You may not always see progress, but he is definitely working on your h. As they say "your h is a work in progress".
This letting go and trusting the man upstairs to do his job has been a prayer of mine since the day H moved out. I struggled with the letting go. It's my nature to fix things. I'm finally at that place to turn it over to God. It's a burden that God willingly took on for me, and I'm grateful.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/15/19 02:05 AM
Hello Grace
Well done!
(((Grace)))
You handled yourself wonderfully.
I suggest you tell your adult children about their Dad’s living arrangements, etc. I’d tell them even if they were not adult. If you do not, when they find out - then what? You do not need to hide this. Stick to the facts, be sincere and honest - just be yourself. Your kids deserve the truth.
I know you are considering the purpose in telling them. Also what is the purpose in not telling them.
As I said just a suggestion.
You’re waking a really fine path. Compassionate and understanding. You so got this.
DnJ
Well done!
(((Grace)))
You handled yourself wonderfully.
I suggest you tell your adult children about their Dad’s living arrangements, etc. I’d tell them even if they were not adult. If you do not, when they find out - then what? You do not need to hide this. Stick to the facts, be sincere and honest - just be yourself. Your kids deserve the truth.
I know you are considering the purpose in telling them. Also what is the purpose in not telling them.
As I said just a suggestion.
You’re waking a really fine path. Compassionate and understanding. You so got this.
DnJ
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/15/19 10:03 PM
Thanks for stopping by DnJ. Always love to hear from you, and appreciate your well thought out advice and encouragement.
I think you are right. It's that fear again rearing it's ugly head. But, as I learned in my convo with H, fear won't kill me, and I give it much more importance than reality dictates.
I won't lie, I thought a lot about H today. Not so much about H and OW, just H.
I also thought about visiting my attorney to discuss options for a more formal separation agreement. There is no legal separation in my state, but we might possibly be able to negotiate a "post-nuptial agreement". I am, after all, realistic, and also love to be prepared in any situation. This mess is no different.
Originally Posted by DnJ
I suggest you tell your adult children about their Dad’s living arrangements, etc. I’d tell them even if they were not adult. If you do not, when they find out - then what? You do not need to hide this. Stick to the facts, be sincere and honest - just be yourself. Your kids deserve the truth.
I think you are right. It's that fear again rearing it's ugly head. But, as I learned in my convo with H, fear won't kill me, and I give it much more importance than reality dictates.
I won't lie, I thought a lot about H today. Not so much about H and OW, just H.
I also thought about visiting my attorney to discuss options for a more formal separation agreement. There is no legal separation in my state, but we might possibly be able to negotiate a "post-nuptial agreement". I am, after all, realistic, and also love to be prepared in any situation. This mess is no different.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/16/19 12:32 PM
Journaling....
Such a roller coaster of emotions. I'm trying my best to feel them and let them pass. It's tough, I won't lie. Real tough. I'm digging deep. My compassion for my broken H runs deep. I feel no pity, just deep compassion and sorrow. He sent me another e-mail last night:
"I know I'm not being fair. I've left you in limbo. Even I feel in limbo. I know that I must come to some sort of decision. I can't sit out here in this condo forever, waiting for a eureka moment. I feel so sorry about all that's occurred. so scared. So depressed. and I know that I'm [not] doing right by anyone. I guess one way or another, I will leave this condo by labor day. I'm sorry I can't be more specific than that. I hope you will continue to at least understand me. I'm sorry for everything. truly I am"
I’m trying not to read anything into it. I think it was meant just as an apology. It sounds to me like he believes he only has 2 options – Her or Me. I wish he would realize that there is another option. Choosing himself. I would love to tell him that I’m not in limbo. He hasn’t realized fully that just as I can’t control his actions, his indecision has not been controlling mine.
I also think it sounds like he is preparing me for “the worst”. He’s moving on. Whatever his decision, I just pray that it includes choosing Life. The omen is still lurking.
This came across my FB page this morning:
“Be thankful for closed doors, detours and roadblocks. They protect you from paths and places not meant for you”.
I’m reminded that everything God does in my life is for my good, even when I don’t see it, even when they are difficult and throw me into despair.
“And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.” Romans 8:28.
One day at a time.
Time to get back to ME.
Grace
Such a roller coaster of emotions. I'm trying my best to feel them and let them pass. It's tough, I won't lie. Real tough. I'm digging deep. My compassion for my broken H runs deep. I feel no pity, just deep compassion and sorrow. He sent me another e-mail last night:
"I know I'm not being fair. I've left you in limbo. Even I feel in limbo. I know that I must come to some sort of decision. I can't sit out here in this condo forever, waiting for a eureka moment. I feel so sorry about all that's occurred. so scared. So depressed. and I know that I'm [not] doing right by anyone. I guess one way or another, I will leave this condo by labor day. I'm sorry I can't be more specific than that. I hope you will continue to at least understand me. I'm sorry for everything. truly I am"
I’m trying not to read anything into it. I think it was meant just as an apology. It sounds to me like he believes he only has 2 options – Her or Me. I wish he would realize that there is another option. Choosing himself. I would love to tell him that I’m not in limbo. He hasn’t realized fully that just as I can’t control his actions, his indecision has not been controlling mine.
I also think it sounds like he is preparing me for “the worst”. He’s moving on. Whatever his decision, I just pray that it includes choosing Life. The omen is still lurking.
This came across my FB page this morning:
“Be thankful for closed doors, detours and roadblocks. They protect you from paths and places not meant for you”.
I’m reminded that everything God does in my life is for my good, even when I don’t see it, even when they are difficult and throw me into despair.
“And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.” Romans 8:28.
One day at a time.
Time to get back to ME.
Grace
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/16/19 04:11 PM
Good Morning Grace
Yes, that emotional rollercoaster takes a while to accept. The second time is easier.
Compassionate indifference.
You achieved an indifferent perspective and feeling towards H. Then further understanding begets compassion, empathy, forgiving, etc... And a few more rides on the rollercoaster.
You are doing excellent. Feeling these feelings, let them pass, by acknowledging them and accepting them.
Compassionate indifference. You can, and will, love someone; and yet not be dragged around by emotions. It’s a really good path to walk, leads to a wonderful peace, calm, and grace.
H’s email: I think it / he deserves a response.
Acknowledge his feelings, he is reaching out. You are correct he has more than two choices. The fact that he even see these two as choices is good and positive.
The best way to tell him that his indecision hasn’t been controlling you, holding you back, is to show him. Keep moving forward, he is watching. Be a beacon.
He is still on his path. Do not get your expectations up. You can respond, if you choose. How about:
Good Morning H
Thank you for your email.
I am sorry you feel scared, depressed, and lost in limbo. And I can see how you feel you need to come to a decision.
I appreciate you saying how sorry you are.
Thanks
Grace
A kind helping hand from within his darkness while whispers of doubt speak in his ears.
Compassionate indifference.
DnJ
Yes, that emotional rollercoaster takes a while to accept. The second time is easier.
Compassionate indifference.
You achieved an indifferent perspective and feeling towards H. Then further understanding begets compassion, empathy, forgiving, etc... And a few more rides on the rollercoaster.
You are doing excellent. Feeling these feelings, let them pass, by acknowledging them and accepting them.
Compassionate indifference. You can, and will, love someone; and yet not be dragged around by emotions. It’s a really good path to walk, leads to a wonderful peace, calm, and grace.
H’s email: I think it / he deserves a response.
Acknowledge his feelings, he is reaching out. You are correct he has more than two choices. The fact that he even see these two as choices is good and positive.
The best way to tell him that his indecision hasn’t been controlling you, holding you back, is to show him. Keep moving forward, he is watching. Be a beacon.
He is still on his path. Do not get your expectations up. You can respond, if you choose. How about:
Good Morning H
Thank you for your email.
I am sorry you feel scared, depressed, and lost in limbo. And I can see how you feel you need to come to a decision.
I appreciate you saying how sorry you are.
Thanks
Grace
A kind helping hand from within his darkness while whispers of doubt speak in his ears.
Compassionate indifference.
DnJ
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/16/19 05:34 PM
DnJ - thanks for you input. It's been tough to work today, for sure.
I have been writing down a few thoughts in response, keeping compassion in mind. I believe indifference also. I'm choosing my words very carefully. I'm trying to keep it brief, but express my sorrow for his pain. It's a work in progress since last night. I will not send it right away. I appreciate the input, and will give it much consideration.
Grace
I have been writing down a few thoughts in response, keeping compassion in mind. I believe indifference also. I'm choosing my words very carefully. I'm trying to keep it brief, but express my sorrow for his pain. It's a work in progress since last night. I will not send it right away. I appreciate the input, and will give it much consideration.
Grace
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/18/19 01:20 AM
Journaling.....
I'm thankful for this forum. Not only for the advice, support, and friendship, but it also gives me a reason to organize my thoughts and work out the issues of the day.
Anxiety is running rampant, yet again.
I can’t stop the freight train carrying H to a train wreck. I don’t have the power. I know it. I don’t think he has the power either. He’s weak. Depressed. Frozen in a miserable, lonely existence. Yes lonely even with OW I’d venture to guess. He’s on that train and doesn’t know how to get off.
There was a time this morning at work that I realized I didn’t think about H for a few hours. I prayed right then and there a prayer of thanks for that reprieve. Any moment he (they) are not on my mind is a blessing.
Yet I'm anxious.
How can I be so good just a few short weeks ago. And I feel so incredibly anxious now? Even after the burden that was lifted by finally letting H know his choices are not o.k. Getting it out in the open. I felt great after that, for a short while.
My lack of control over the situation takes my destiny out of my hands.
I fear the unknown. I fear dealing with the fallout, hurt and disappointment of my kids when they learn their dad has chosen a life with a girlfriend while married to their mom. D19 is already fragile.
I fear the daunting task of potentially (likely?) separating our lives completely and forever.
But, my destiny is in MY hands, isn’t it? I don’t need to ride that train to a wreck and fear the unknown. I need to get off, and take matters in my own hands.
Stop snooping. – I fell off the wagon and this caused my anxiety to rear its ugly head today. Phone records show a call from a mortgage broker. Doesn’t H know that he can’t buy a place without my knowledge? Doesn’t he know that it will be 50% mine if he uses our money, including all the furnishings? He’s a smart man. How can he be so stupid? Maybe he’s not buying a place at all. Unlikely. The evidence is piling up. I’ll know by Labor Day for sure.
I’m really beginning to hate the waiting. Don’t wait, move forward! Ugh!
Make GAL plans – Have plans Friday night with a girlfriend to catch up. Next Friday and Saturday are also booked. I’ll spend tons of time with D19. It’s her birthday next week. I’ve got less than a month before she goes back to school.
Meet with my attorney – I reached out to her to discuss contingencies if H buys a place, and to discuss my finances and a potential separation agreement (not legally, as it’s not allowed in my state). I'm looking forward to meeting with her.
Call a friend – messaged her. And she is a blessing.
Love on my kids – always and every day
Maybe it’s time for a wee glass of wine, put my feet up, and watch T.V.
Tomorrow will bring yet another perspective.
I hope it’s fresh and not stale.
Grace
I'm thankful for this forum. Not only for the advice, support, and friendship, but it also gives me a reason to organize my thoughts and work out the issues of the day.
Anxiety is running rampant, yet again.
I can’t stop the freight train carrying H to a train wreck. I don’t have the power. I know it. I don’t think he has the power either. He’s weak. Depressed. Frozen in a miserable, lonely existence. Yes lonely even with OW I’d venture to guess. He’s on that train and doesn’t know how to get off.
There was a time this morning at work that I realized I didn’t think about H for a few hours. I prayed right then and there a prayer of thanks for that reprieve. Any moment he (they) are not on my mind is a blessing.
Yet I'm anxious.
How can I be so good just a few short weeks ago. And I feel so incredibly anxious now? Even after the burden that was lifted by finally letting H know his choices are not o.k. Getting it out in the open. I felt great after that, for a short while.
My lack of control over the situation takes my destiny out of my hands.
I fear the unknown. I fear dealing with the fallout, hurt and disappointment of my kids when they learn their dad has chosen a life with a girlfriend while married to their mom. D19 is already fragile.
I fear the daunting task of potentially (likely?) separating our lives completely and forever.
But, my destiny is in MY hands, isn’t it? I don’t need to ride that train to a wreck and fear the unknown. I need to get off, and take matters in my own hands.
Stop snooping. – I fell off the wagon and this caused my anxiety to rear its ugly head today. Phone records show a call from a mortgage broker. Doesn’t H know that he can’t buy a place without my knowledge? Doesn’t he know that it will be 50% mine if he uses our money, including all the furnishings? He’s a smart man. How can he be so stupid? Maybe he’s not buying a place at all. Unlikely. The evidence is piling up. I’ll know by Labor Day for sure.
I’m really beginning to hate the waiting. Don’t wait, move forward! Ugh!
Make GAL plans – Have plans Friday night with a girlfriend to catch up. Next Friday and Saturday are also booked. I’ll spend tons of time with D19. It’s her birthday next week. I’ve got less than a month before she goes back to school.
Meet with my attorney – I reached out to her to discuss contingencies if H buys a place, and to discuss my finances and a potential separation agreement (not legally, as it’s not allowed in my state). I'm looking forward to meeting with her.
Call a friend – messaged her. And she is a blessing.
Love on my kids – always and every day
Maybe it’s time for a wee glass of wine, put my feet up, and watch T.V.
Tomorrow will bring yet another perspective.
I hope it’s fresh and not stale.
Grace
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/18/19 04:21 AM
I remember the anxiety induced by all the uncertainty. I suppose we all do as we witnessed our seemingly sane spouses spiral into adolescent thinking.
We cannot control it and we cannot stop it but we must work diligently to protect against Expedite the meeting with the lawyer. Try hard to think of this as a business deal gone bad. Have you run a credit score check?
This is such an unromantic part to standing but so very critical.
We cannot control it and we cannot stop it but we must work diligently to protect against Expedite the meeting with the lawyer. Try hard to think of this as a business deal gone bad. Have you run a credit score check?
This is such an unromantic part to standing but so very critical.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/18/19 10:16 AM
HaWho -
Thanks for stopping by. This anxiety is really a beast. When you have a good night sleep, and you open your eyes and the first thing the pops in the mind is the sitch, H, OW. And it stays, and turns around, and around, and around. I hate to start my day like this. Every day! I guess only time and distance help break that cycle. And my devotionals help, too.
I've asked to meet with my attorney either tomorrow or early next week. I'm glad I did all the preparations months ago. Just need to print it out and show up.
I've been looking at his credit report since he moved out - regularly. There was only 1 "hard" check in the last month from some sort of finance company. I can only assume it's for a loan (mortgage?). I'm on top of that. No movement on any of our investments, as I have access to it all. Still, I will move to protetct it all.
Another day has dawned in which to survive (I mean LIVE).
Grace
Thanks for stopping by. This anxiety is really a beast. When you have a good night sleep, and you open your eyes and the first thing the pops in the mind is the sitch, H, OW. And it stays, and turns around, and around, and around. I hate to start my day like this. Every day! I guess only time and distance help break that cycle. And my devotionals help, too.
I've asked to meet with my attorney either tomorrow or early next week. I'm glad I did all the preparations months ago. Just need to print it out and show up.
I've been looking at his credit report since he moved out - regularly. There was only 1 "hard" check in the last month from some sort of finance company. I can only assume it's for a loan (mortgage?). I'm on top of that. No movement on any of our investments, as I have access to it all. Still, I will move to protetct it all.
Another day has dawned in which to survive (I mean LIVE).
Grace
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/19/19 08:09 PM
H feels cornered. I can feel it. He pretty much said as much to me.
I can't leave well enough alone. I don't know if it's the new me that has decided I need to speak out and say "what you are doing is not o.k. with me". Or just spur of the moment acting out on emotions.
I had a very good hunch (turns out accurate) that H was looking into the feasibility of getting a loan to buy a property. An email came to our joint account today saying that "I understand you are looking for a mortgage or loan".
So I decided to call H to ask him about it. He confirmed. He stated he still hasn't decided what to do. I asked him point blank if he was looking at buying a place with OW. He said they discussed it. He said that after our discussion on Saturday, he feels pushed to make a decision.
I told him that I am not waiting around saying "pick me, pick me, pick me". That forcing him to a decision was not my intent on Satulday. That the intent of Saturday was to open a dialogue. That I did think it was time to have real, authentic conversations. It wasn't fair to me to find out about his potential purchase through an email. I said that if he already made a decision, but he was too afraid to talk to me, that he shouldn't. He said he truly still doesn't know what to do. The only thing he knows is he's stressed.
There was more, but he was very short at the end and just said "Fine" when I said I think I deserve to be told things instead of finding out 2nd hand.
So, think he feels cornered.
He's not capable of having real, authentic dialogues at this time. Maybe he never will be.
I think he will choose OW,
I think that he can't face me.
In spite of the 30 minutes of anxiety over it, I don't feel too bad for pushing it.
Maybe I'm on the home stretch.
Now I have to get ready for happy hour with my girlfriend.
(Getting a) Life goes on.
I can't leave well enough alone. I don't know if it's the new me that has decided I need to speak out and say "what you are doing is not o.k. with me". Or just spur of the moment acting out on emotions.
I had a very good hunch (turns out accurate) that H was looking into the feasibility of getting a loan to buy a property. An email came to our joint account today saying that "I understand you are looking for a mortgage or loan".
So I decided to call H to ask him about it. He confirmed. He stated he still hasn't decided what to do. I asked him point blank if he was looking at buying a place with OW. He said they discussed it. He said that after our discussion on Saturday, he feels pushed to make a decision.
I told him that I am not waiting around saying "pick me, pick me, pick me". That forcing him to a decision was not my intent on Satulday. That the intent of Saturday was to open a dialogue. That I did think it was time to have real, authentic conversations. It wasn't fair to me to find out about his potential purchase through an email. I said that if he already made a decision, but he was too afraid to talk to me, that he shouldn't. He said he truly still doesn't know what to do. The only thing he knows is he's stressed.
There was more, but he was very short at the end and just said "Fine" when I said I think I deserve to be told things instead of finding out 2nd hand.
So, think he feels cornered.
He's not capable of having real, authentic dialogues at this time. Maybe he never will be.
I think he will choose OW,
I think that he can't face me.
In spite of the 30 minutes of anxiety over it, I don't feel too bad for pushing it.
Maybe I'm on the home stretch.
Now I have to get ready for happy hour with my girlfriend.
(Getting a) Life goes on.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/21/19 06:19 AM
Hello Grace
An email to find out about H’s potential loan. Glad you’re seeing a lawyer soon, you need to firm up the financial protection. The mindset of business deal gone bad, as suggested by HaWho, is a very good one.
Yep, pretty sure H feels cornered. Please stop pushing. Desperate people do desperate things, and you are still tied up with assets, kids, money, etc...
Besides - believe nothing they say and only half of what they do. It apples here pretty well.
H tells you he is unsure and still hasn’t decided what to do. Yet seeks information for a loan and is considering buying a place with OW. All in secret.
H knows how you feel about his actions.
You are responding to emotions. Reattaching to this situation. Hop in your intellectual car for a bit and look at this.
Protect you and the kids. Focus on you and the kids. Remain detached and find indifference. Decide what you want for you and the kids. Leave H to his confusion.
You’ve already illustrated a few causalities for anxiousness.
H knows his choices are not ok. Keep expectation at zero, and let him go.
Fears. You have listed a few. This is good, and a fine place to start.
The unknown.
The hurt. The disappointment. I would look at these separately. Hurt and disappointment of the kids when they learn about their Dad’s choices.
Consider each and dig to see what is tied to your irrational fear. It is usually a few layers deep/removed from the obvious and always ties back to you or affects you. For example fear regarding kids, ends up being something to do with you.
My sister and I, while she was visiting, discussed some of her fears. One was regarding her son and his allergies. Digging, some why questions, some encouragement and she saw her fear has little to do with her son’s allergies. She saw the possible events she fears and now has some work to rationalize and uncouple them.
Grace, feel free to ask me or tell me anything you like. Nothing to fear from me.
DnJ
An email to find out about H’s potential loan. Glad you’re seeing a lawyer soon, you need to firm up the financial protection. The mindset of business deal gone bad, as suggested by HaWho, is a very good one.
Yep, pretty sure H feels cornered. Please stop pushing. Desperate people do desperate things, and you are still tied up with assets, kids, money, etc...
Besides - believe nothing they say and only half of what they do. It apples here pretty well.
H tells you he is unsure and still hasn’t decided what to do. Yet seeks information for a loan and is considering buying a place with OW. All in secret.
Originally Posted by Grace21
I can't leave well enough alone. I don't know if it's the new me that has decided I need to speak out and say "what you are doing is not o.k. with me". Or just spur of the moment acting out on emotions.
H knows how you feel about his actions.
You are responding to emotions. Reattaching to this situation. Hop in your intellectual car for a bit and look at this.
Protect you and the kids. Focus on you and the kids. Remain detached and find indifference. Decide what you want for you and the kids. Leave H to his confusion.
Originally Posted by Grace21
Yet I'm anxious.
How can I be so good just a few short weeks ago. And I feel so incredibly anxious now? Even after the burden that was lifted by finally letting H know his choices are not o.k. Getting it out in the open. I felt great after that, for a short while.
My lack of control over the situation takes my destiny out of my hands.
I fear the unknown. I fear dealing with the fallout, hurt and disappointment of my kids when they learn their dad has chosen a life with a girlfriend while married to their mom. D19 is already fragile.
I fear the daunting task of potentially (likely?) separating our lives completely and forever.
How can I be so good just a few short weeks ago. And I feel so incredibly anxious now? Even after the burden that was lifted by finally letting H know his choices are not o.k. Getting it out in the open. I felt great after that, for a short while.
My lack of control over the situation takes my destiny out of my hands.
I fear the unknown. I fear dealing with the fallout, hurt and disappointment of my kids when they learn their dad has chosen a life with a girlfriend while married to their mom. D19 is already fragile.
I fear the daunting task of potentially (likely?) separating our lives completely and forever.
You’ve already illustrated a few causalities for anxiousness.
H knows his choices are not ok. Keep expectation at zero, and let him go.
Fears. You have listed a few. This is good, and a fine place to start.
The unknown.
The hurt. The disappointment. I would look at these separately. Hurt and disappointment of the kids when they learn about their Dad’s choices.
Consider each and dig to see what is tied to your irrational fear. It is usually a few layers deep/removed from the obvious and always ties back to you or affects you. For example fear regarding kids, ends up being something to do with you.
My sister and I, while she was visiting, discussed some of her fears. One was regarding her son and his allergies. Digging, some why questions, some encouragement and she saw her fear has little to do with her son’s allergies. She saw the possible events she fears and now has some work to rationalize and uncouple them.
Grace, feel free to ask me or tell me anything you like. Nothing to fear from me.
DnJ
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/21/19 11:40 AM
I realized yesterday that I have so many people in my life that I can call on at a moments notice if I need support. People are reaching out to me, or readily accepting my invitations, to get to know me better. The kids and I are closer than ever. I am thankful I used this time separated from H to develop those relationships. That’s what life is all about anyway, isn’t it?
I’m also thankful I found this forum. It’s been a lifeline.
I know ultimately I will be o.k. I just need to tighten my seatbelt for the upcoming rocky ride, endure it, and reach the other side.
First step. See lawyer on Tuesday. She was kind enough to let me pay by the hour until such a time I (or H) files. I also get a 25% discount because it was a referral through a program at work. Well, it came out of our joint account anyway. Let H pay for it.
This is exactly how I am approaching it. Protect me and the kids. This is probably my biggest fear right now, because he can pull his paycheck from our joint account at any time, and I am waiting anxiously for next weekend to see if that was done. I will then be at his mercy to give me enough to pay all the bills until we agree on alimony and are D. I am going to look at where the money goes to see how short I will be on just the basics using only my salary. I don’t want to ask my parents for help, but I know they will if I do. We’ll see how the numbers come out.
Yes. I (almost) regret that last phone call, but I don’t think it changed anything in his mind. He felt cornered before that. But, I have vowed to not initiate contact at all and see how this plays out. He will be seeing D19 for her birthday on Friday, and S21 asked H to join us for a birthday dinner at a locally famous place in early August (my kids have the same birthday). He already agreed to that, so we will see what happens. 2 months ago I made reservations for 4 with no expectations. I have absolutely no problem dining without H. It would probably be a nicer time anyway.
Believe me, this did not go unnoticed by me. He never once in 10 months said anything about trying to work it out. Only a few vague references to selling everything, moving away and starting over (sometimes in reference to himself, sometimes he included me). This is the most telling of all I think. At this time, he can’t, or won’t, make even the first step in facing himself much less our M.
And all the lies are getting tiresome.
Mama bear is definitely in protection mode now. It almost feels good to prepare for my appointment with the lawyer. I’m a bit worried about the kids being away at school before this really plays out. I will see what the next 3 weeks brings, and probably have the convo with them before they go back so they have time to process and discuss as much as they want face to face.
Here’s a question for you DnJ. What is the first step in peeling back the layers? Time, action and relinquishing control seem to calm my anxiousness, but maybe it just stifles it temporarily and that’s why it continues to rear it’s ugly head.
And for anyone who wants to weigh in, if you have suggestions for specific questions to ask my lawyer, please send them my way.
I’m also thankful I found this forum. It’s been a lifeline.
I know ultimately I will be o.k. I just need to tighten my seatbelt for the upcoming rocky ride, endure it, and reach the other side.
First step. See lawyer on Tuesday. She was kind enough to let me pay by the hour until such a time I (or H) files. I also get a 25% discount because it was a referral through a program at work. Well, it came out of our joint account anyway. Let H pay for it.
Originally Posted by DnJ
An email to find out about H’s potential loan. Glad you’re seeing a lawyer soon, you need to firm up the financial protection. The mindset of business deal gone bad, as suggested by HaWho, is a very good one.
This is exactly how I am approaching it. Protect me and the kids. This is probably my biggest fear right now, because he can pull his paycheck from our joint account at any time, and I am waiting anxiously for next weekend to see if that was done. I will then be at his mercy to give me enough to pay all the bills until we agree on alimony and are D. I am going to look at where the money goes to see how short I will be on just the basics using only my salary. I don’t want to ask my parents for help, but I know they will if I do. We’ll see how the numbers come out.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Yep, pretty sure H feels cornered. Please stop pushing. Desperate people do desperate things, and you are still tied up with assets, kids, money, etc...
Yes. I (almost) regret that last phone call, but I don’t think it changed anything in his mind. He felt cornered before that. But, I have vowed to not initiate contact at all and see how this plays out. He will be seeing D19 for her birthday on Friday, and S21 asked H to join us for a birthday dinner at a locally famous place in early August (my kids have the same birthday). He already agreed to that, so we will see what happens. 2 months ago I made reservations for 4 with no expectations. I have absolutely no problem dining without H. It would probably be a nicer time anyway.
Originally Posted by DnJ
H tells you he is unsure and still hasn’t decided what to do. Yet seeks information for a loan and is considering buying a place with OW. All in secret.
Believe me, this did not go unnoticed by me. He never once in 10 months said anything about trying to work it out. Only a few vague references to selling everything, moving away and starting over (sometimes in reference to himself, sometimes he included me). This is the most telling of all I think. At this time, he can’t, or won’t, make even the first step in facing himself much less our M.
And all the lies are getting tiresome.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Protect you and the kids. Focus on you and the kids. Remain detached and find indifference. Decide what you want for you and the kids. Leave H to his confusion.
Mama bear is definitely in protection mode now. It almost feels good to prepare for my appointment with the lawyer. I’m a bit worried about the kids being away at school before this really plays out. I will see what the next 3 weeks brings, and probably have the convo with them before they go back so they have time to process and discuss as much as they want face to face.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Consider each and dig to see what is tied to your irrational fear. It is usually a few layers deep/removed from the obvious and always ties back to you or affects you. For example fear regarding kids, ends up being something to do with you.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Grace, feel free to ask me or tell me anything you like. Nothing to fear from me.
Here’s a question for you DnJ. What is the first step in peeling back the layers? Time, action and relinquishing control seem to calm my anxiousness, but maybe it just stifles it temporarily and that’s why it continues to rear it’s ugly head.
And for anyone who wants to weigh in, if you have suggestions for specific questions to ask my lawyer, please send them my way.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/21/19 09:39 PM
Hello Grace
Awesome post. Well thought out and of course really good living.
Good for you, planning on seeing your lawyer and getting some further answers and options.
I have nothing specific as such. Just find out the worst case scenario, the best case scenario, what you could fight for and most likely win, what you could fight for and most likely lose. Discuss custody and see if sole custody is possible and what it would take to achieve. See what is the legal default for custody and spitting of assets. All just information. Then you can make informed decision on what you want to do. What you are willing to negotiate away and what you are willing to die for.
Remain intellectual with the business deal gone bad mindset and you will make better decisions. Once home and safe you can allow the emotions to flood back and process and accept them.
Generally speaking I believe a better settlement is reached outside of the courts. One can waive certain rights or their portion for something else they want instead. That may sound a little inelegant, yet that is pretty much what this is about - kids and money. And I’ve seen and read many MLCers who have given up custody for money.
When H is offering a settlement, let him (well his L) do most of the talking. If he comes up with, or feels he came up with something, it is much more likely to remain as opposed to something you want or propose. Remember you have time on your side, most MLCers feel trapped and want to get things over and done, and get on with their new wonderful life.
That is exactly what my XW did. In her hurry, she threw away everything to rush to OM’s arms and the empty promise of affair provided happiness. Now, I wasn’t anywhere near as stable or clearheaded as you are right now. I was very lucky with her rushing though her settlement offer and I had enough sense (and friends and family) to know that was a really good deal, so I accepted. Be open to possibilities, a good deal may be put on the table. Remember - business deal thinking. I know just how icky this all feels. In time, you will see it just as what it is.
- - - -
To start peeling back the layers. Like our individual journeys, each person steps through differently. However there are a few general first things that need to happen:
Identification of fears need to be one of the first things, cannot find acceptance of something if you don’t even know what you’re working on. Identification - Check.
Acknowledgement that you have fears. Acknowledgement - Check.
Look at you, two steps are ready completed.
Asking where do I start. What are my first steps. Showing a willingness, a desire, and committing yourself to actually doing this. That might just be the most critical first step. Commitment - Check.
To peel back the layers - follow the sting, follow the pain, follow the fear.
We all have a trail within ourselves we could follow. Layers of our lives covering irrational insecurities and fears. Layers of materialistic items, relationships, and other distractions keeping fear at bay. We don’t often walk towards what hurts or fears us. Do that. Follow your trail to your fear.
As you journey through your fear, rationalize what you find and feel. See it for what it is. Let it go.
As LBS, there is a fantastic opportunity for growth and betterment. Our lives are upside down, and torn apart. Layers ripped open, and the deep core of one’s self exposed. Strange feelings and emotional responses seem to run amok. We, of course, will put our self back together. Look at the pieces, keep what you like, change what you don’t. Fears, like everything else, are exposed more than at any other time in your life - take advantage of the opportunity to heal really well.
Grace, believe that you will, in the very best sense of the word, be fearless.
DnJ
Awesome post. Well thought out and of course really good living.
Good for you, planning on seeing your lawyer and getting some further answers and options.
I have nothing specific as such. Just find out the worst case scenario, the best case scenario, what you could fight for and most likely win, what you could fight for and most likely lose. Discuss custody and see if sole custody is possible and what it would take to achieve. See what is the legal default for custody and spitting of assets. All just information. Then you can make informed decision on what you want to do. What you are willing to negotiate away and what you are willing to die for.
Remain intellectual with the business deal gone bad mindset and you will make better decisions. Once home and safe you can allow the emotions to flood back and process and accept them.
Generally speaking I believe a better settlement is reached outside of the courts. One can waive certain rights or their portion for something else they want instead. That may sound a little inelegant, yet that is pretty much what this is about - kids and money. And I’ve seen and read many MLCers who have given up custody for money.
When H is offering a settlement, let him (well his L) do most of the talking. If he comes up with, or feels he came up with something, it is much more likely to remain as opposed to something you want or propose. Remember you have time on your side, most MLCers feel trapped and want to get things over and done, and get on with their new wonderful life.
That is exactly what my XW did. In her hurry, she threw away everything to rush to OM’s arms and the empty promise of affair provided happiness. Now, I wasn’t anywhere near as stable or clearheaded as you are right now. I was very lucky with her rushing though her settlement offer and I had enough sense (and friends and family) to know that was a really good deal, so I accepted. Be open to possibilities, a good deal may be put on the table. Remember - business deal thinking. I know just how icky this all feels. In time, you will see it just as what it is.
- - - -
To start peeling back the layers. Like our individual journeys, each person steps through differently. However there are a few general first things that need to happen:
Identification of fears need to be one of the first things, cannot find acceptance of something if you don’t even know what you’re working on. Identification - Check.
Acknowledgement that you have fears. Acknowledgement - Check.
Look at you, two steps are ready completed.
Asking where do I start. What are my first steps. Showing a willingness, a desire, and committing yourself to actually doing this. That might just be the most critical first step. Commitment - Check.
To peel back the layers - follow the sting, follow the pain, follow the fear.
We all have a trail within ourselves we could follow. Layers of our lives covering irrational insecurities and fears. Layers of materialistic items, relationships, and other distractions keeping fear at bay. We don’t often walk towards what hurts or fears us. Do that. Follow your trail to your fear.
As you journey through your fear, rationalize what you find and feel. See it for what it is. Let it go.
As LBS, there is a fantastic opportunity for growth and betterment. Our lives are upside down, and torn apart. Layers ripped open, and the deep core of one’s self exposed. Strange feelings and emotional responses seem to run amok. We, of course, will put our self back together. Look at the pieces, keep what you like, change what you don’t. Fears, like everything else, are exposed more than at any other time in your life - take advantage of the opportunity to heal really well.
Grace, believe that you will, in the very best sense of the word, be fearless.
DnJ
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/22/19 12:34 AM
DnJ - thanks once again for the feedback and insight.
A friend told me once that I might get a really great settlement offer if H feels any guilt or remorse, and I let him file. I believe he deeply feels both of these things. You seem to confirm this. I will discuss this with my attorney - proactive or reactive.
I have one question. You mention custody several times. My kids will be 20 and 22 this week. Perhaps you thought I had minors in the house? Even though they are older, they are still in college and in some way financially dependent on us for some of their expenses. This will for sure be put down as something to work out. Who pays for what.
Anyway. Please elaborate a bit if you meant it in terms of adult, yet partially dependent, children.
Grace
A friend told me once that I might get a really great settlement offer if H feels any guilt or remorse, and I let him file. I believe he deeply feels both of these things. You seem to confirm this. I will discuss this with my attorney - proactive or reactive.
I have one question. You mention custody several times. My kids will be 20 and 22 this week. Perhaps you thought I had minors in the house? Even though they are older, they are still in college and in some way financially dependent on us for some of their expenses. This will for sure be put down as something to work out. Who pays for what.
Anyway. Please elaborate a bit if you meant it in terms of adult, yet partially dependent, children.
Grace
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/22/19 12:59 AM
Guilt definitely played a part in me getting a great settlement with my STBXH. I say take full advantage of it when and if he files. Try and be proactive if you can and keep your emotions out of it as much as possible.
Sounds like you are still doing really well. Time and acceptance are the two greatest healers IMO. One you have to work at and the other will just take care of itself. (((HUGS)))
Sounds like you are still doing really well. Time and acceptance are the two greatest healers IMO. One you have to work at and the other will just take care of itself. (((HUGS)))
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/22/19 02:42 AM
My apologies Grace. I was indeed thinking you had minors. Silly me. I know different and it is right there in your signature line. I definitely got my lines crossed somewhere.
D20 and S22 this week - Happy Birthday to them.
For where I live, adult partially dependent children there’s no child support unless they’re disabled. The cost of university/college or other furthering of their education, and books, cars, commuting, rent, and so on can be split up and parents are responsible for those cost until the child is 25. You are correct that this is something to get worked out with the lawyers.
Have a good evening.
D20 and S22 this week - Happy Birthday to them.
For where I live, adult partially dependent children there’s no child support unless they’re disabled. The cost of university/college or other furthering of their education, and books, cars, commuting, rent, and so on can be split up and parents are responsible for those cost until the child is 25. You are correct that this is something to get worked out with the lawyers.
Have a good evening.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/25/19 01:54 AM
Hello Grace
I hope the lawyer appointment went well yesterday and you got some answers. It’s not a nice feeling having to look into this stuff. (((Grace)))
I also pretty sure that you will not be held back from celebrating your kids birthdays this week. Put all this on hold and have a great time.
DnJ
I hope the lawyer appointment went well yesterday and you got some answers. It’s not a nice feeling having to look into this stuff. (((Grace)))
I also pretty sure that you will not be held back from celebrating your kids birthdays this week. Put all this on hold and have a great time.
DnJ
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/25/19 11:45 AM
Just popping in for a quick update. The appointment with lawyer had to be postponed due to her illness and court until tomorrow. I am prepared with my questions and finances.
There has been some e-mail exchange with H. He's in a very bad way. The demons have a very strong hold. I have been sending brief responses back that reflect understanding/compassion for his pain, but not much else except to keep the lines of communication open if he chooses to. He said he has so much he wants to say, but it's all jumbled up and hard to organize his thoughts. I will wait patiently to receive any communication from him if he chooses to do that. He sent me a light text message this morning about the kids birthday. Made me laugh out loud. I sent a brief one back.
These exchanges are not changing my course. Lawyer tomorrow to firm up a plan if I need to respond or move on my own. Enjoying all my GAL activities, and my kids, of course.
I no longer have any teenagers. Wow. Life moves on.
There has been some e-mail exchange with H. He's in a very bad way. The demons have a very strong hold. I have been sending brief responses back that reflect understanding/compassion for his pain, but not much else except to keep the lines of communication open if he chooses to. He said he has so much he wants to say, but it's all jumbled up and hard to organize his thoughts. I will wait patiently to receive any communication from him if he chooses to do that. He sent me a light text message this morning about the kids birthday. Made me laugh out loud. I sent a brief one back.
These exchanges are not changing my course. Lawyer tomorrow to firm up a plan if I need to respond or move on my own. Enjoying all my GAL activities, and my kids, of course.
I no longer have any teenagers. Wow. Life moves on.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/26/19 07:59 PM
Originally Posted by DnJ
I hope the lawyer appointment went well yesterday and you got some answers. It’s not a nice feeling having to look into this stuff.
Met with attorney for almost 1 hour. I'm doing o.k. Tried to view it as a business meeting. I understand the process, and believe I will get enough of a settlement and alimony to keep the house running. That really is my biggest issue/worry. I want the kids to have a sanctuary to go to when they need it. And that is home. She also believes that as long as H keeps contributing to all the bills, there is no reason to file for D (unless of course I want to because I'm done) or split bills like cell phone or insurance. He's proven for 10 months that we can keep 2 residences going. But, she would recommend filing for D if he changes where his paycheck goes and I'm at the mercy of him covering the deficit in my bills. I'd hate to have to make a choice on filing for D purely out of financial need without being really "done".
H took D20 out for lunch and birthday shopping. H messaged me they had a nice time. He hasn't written that e-mail he said he would about his thoughts, and I'm not really expecting it. How can someone express thoughts on paper when they are so jumbled up and "change hourly" (that's his words). I think it's cowardly he won't do it face-to-face. I guess he can't face me. Anyway, no expectations.
I'm anxiously awaiting to see if his paycheck will be deposited into our joint account as usual. I have this feeling he changed it. I'll know by Monday. This could potentially significantly change things for me.
One day at a time.
GAL activities tonight and tomorrow. Church and hanging out with D20 on Sunday.
Life is good.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/26/19 11:51 PM
Hello Grace
I’m glad you understand the process and see that financially things should be ok. Information is power, and alleviates much doubt and worry. It is good that you can keep the house - the home. Yes kids will like it and feel better in their home, and also knowing you are in your home. It looks like that is one worry you can put aside a bit.
I do know of the worry of what if this goes off the rails. Things like he changes where he puts his cheque or doesn’t pay the bills, and so on. I do agree with your L’s assessment.
Maybe you can look at this like, if he changes what he is doing, he made the decision. As long as he keeps doing what he is doing you will sit tight. You need not make the decision on filling purely out of financial need, he will or won’t. And I wouldn’t tell him about the consequences - it probably would provoke him into doing it.
That all being said, I do believe that making a decision based on financial risk is a good decision. Not one taken lightly, one taken with eyes open and your future in mind.
I’ll also add that I found being “done” is a pretty nebulous thing. The borders are not well defined, even divorce may not be the end. To be plain about it, divorce is just a piece of paper. My XW is now just a woman I could possible date in the future. Exactly what she was after bomb drop / affair; I just didn’t see it back then. There really isn’t any change in her status. Lot of change in me, but that would take many many posts to cover. Hey, what a minute! I did post all those changes.
As you so eloquently say - Life is good.
DnJ
I’m glad you understand the process and see that financially things should be ok. Information is power, and alleviates much doubt and worry. It is good that you can keep the house - the home. Yes kids will like it and feel better in their home, and also knowing you are in your home. It looks like that is one worry you can put aside a bit.
I do know of the worry of what if this goes off the rails. Things like he changes where he puts his cheque or doesn’t pay the bills, and so on. I do agree with your L’s assessment.
Originally Posted by Grace21
...she would recommend filing for D if he changes where his paycheck goes and I'm at the mercy of him covering the deficit in my bills. I'd hate to have to make a choice on filing for D purely out of financial need without being really "done".
Maybe you can look at this like, if he changes what he is doing, he made the decision. As long as he keeps doing what he is doing you will sit tight. You need not make the decision on filling purely out of financial need, he will or won’t. And I wouldn’t tell him about the consequences - it probably would provoke him into doing it.
That all being said, I do believe that making a decision based on financial risk is a good decision. Not one taken lightly, one taken with eyes open and your future in mind.
I’ll also add that I found being “done” is a pretty nebulous thing. The borders are not well defined, even divorce may not be the end. To be plain about it, divorce is just a piece of paper. My XW is now just a woman I could possible date in the future. Exactly what she was after bomb drop / affair; I just didn’t see it back then. There really isn’t any change in her status. Lot of change in me, but that would take many many posts to cover. Hey, what a minute! I did post all those changes.
As you so eloquently say - Life is good.
DnJ
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/27/19 10:53 PM
Paycheck is safely in the bank. I'm relieved that at least I don't have to deal with that at the moment.
Good choice of a word "nebulous". Being done is a process. A long process. It ebbs and flows and hard to pinpoint a specific time to really be done. I guess that's because it's all about emotions. But, to me, divorce is more than just a piece of paper. It is the end-result of a decision - a decision by one or more people to say "I'm done with you. Done with us".
Divorce. It makes me a bit sad to contemplate.
I'm not done. But I'm not going back to the person I was 10 months ago. Still moving forward, still embracing the new (old) me, still living a fulfilling life, still developing close relationships with old and new friends.
I wonder what tomorrow will bring?
Originally Posted by DnJ
I’ll also add that I found being “done” is a pretty nebulous thing. The borders are not well defined, even divorce may not be the end. To be plain about it, divorce is just a piece of paper.
Good choice of a word "nebulous". Being done is a process. A long process. It ebbs and flows and hard to pinpoint a specific time to really be done. I guess that's because it's all about emotions. But, to me, divorce is more than just a piece of paper. It is the end-result of a decision - a decision by one or more people to say "I'm done with you. Done with us".
Divorce. It makes me a bit sad to contemplate.
I'm not done. But I'm not going back to the person I was 10 months ago. Still moving forward, still embracing the new (old) me, still living a fulfilling life, still developing close relationships with old and new friends.
I wonder what tomorrow will bring?
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 07/28/19 03:41 AM
Glad the paycheck is still being deposit as before. You didn’t need that stress.
As for my comments on divorce. I was completely the same as you. I saw, thought, and felt the same about divorce. And then suddenly I was. My view and feelings changed after that.
For what it’s worth, I hated that phrase “divorce is just a piece of paper”. That implies that marriage is as well. Neither of those are true! Well, yes and no.
I am not disagreeing or arguing with you; since you are correct. I’m even wondering why I am posting; guess I was touched with you being sad when contemplating this topic.
I don’t want to change your mind, or your view - you are right where you need to be. I just want to assure you, divorce, if you get to that point - and I hope, truly hope you don’t, acceptance turns it into a piece of paper. All the fear, worry, sadness, uncertainty - all let go, and they become a sheet of parchment. I found that is how hope can still live.
Grace, I really do hope you don’t experience what I am talking about.
And I am sorry for my rambling post. I thought about deleting it, but no. You’re a good friend, whose views sparked something inside me, and I wanted you to know how your post prompted me to organize my thoughts. Thanks.
DnJ
As for my comments on divorce. I was completely the same as you. I saw, thought, and felt the same about divorce. And then suddenly I was. My view and feelings changed after that.
For what it’s worth, I hated that phrase “divorce is just a piece of paper”. That implies that marriage is as well. Neither of those are true! Well, yes and no.
I am not disagreeing or arguing with you; since you are correct. I’m even wondering why I am posting; guess I was touched with you being sad when contemplating this topic.
I don’t want to change your mind, or your view - you are right where you need to be. I just want to assure you, divorce, if you get to that point - and I hope, truly hope you don’t, acceptance turns it into a piece of paper. All the fear, worry, sadness, uncertainty - all let go, and they become a sheet of parchment. I found that is how hope can still live.
Grace, I really do hope you don’t experience what I am talking about.
And I am sorry for my rambling post. I thought about deleting it, but no. You’re a good friend, whose views sparked something inside me, and I wanted you to know how your post prompted me to organize my thoughts. Thanks.
DnJ
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/02/19 04:03 PM
Journaling….
H and I have been exchanging e-mails for about 1 week now. Way too many and too much said to go into it all. We shared some very real, raw emotions. H is still in turmoil. Obviously very damaged, and it’s clear to me he doesn’t know how to lift himself out of the pit. He states he is “making a decision” about getting out of his current apartment by Sept 1. So, change is coming.
This is an excerpt from one of his e-mails
“You know, I read this and it's like I don't recognize this coming from you. like a different voice. Different attitude. different ideas. Obviously you have grown during these last 10 or so months. You've changed. I've changed. it's been a changing time for both of us.”
and
“so I think I have to do something. Even if you say you're not feeling dangled. You DO seem fine. Your words. your mood. your FB posts indicates somehow who seems relatively at peace with her life, with or without me in the house. maybe its your church and how you've thrown yourself into it? But you do seem mentally good. Better than me anyway.
But it's 1 August tomorrow. life is short. I have to come to a decision even when I know that I will not be anywhere near 100% certain that the decision is the right one”
I sent a response to him about that change he sees in me, having to do with my relationships with God, family and friends. I also told him I had no idea what decisions he was weighing, and whether exploring R with me is even on that list, but that I was in no way expecting a response from him on that. This is his last e-mail to me:
“yes, of course i have considered all the options. 1) move home and work it out, 2) get a place with her, 3) get my own place with neither, 4) end it all”
#4 scares me. Makes me worried for him. But, if I had to guess today, I would put money on him choosing option #2. That’s the only sure way to have at least one person in his life without having to face his demons, as messed up as the R probably is. I’m not even sure I’d agree to #1 at this point.
I also know there has been sporadic contact from a realtor and OW. Backtracking, moving forward. I have no idea. OW’s home is now off the market. (Yes, I’ve been snooping. But it doesn’t give me anxiety like it did months ago. I’m trying to stay informed so I’m not blindsided. That’s what I’m telling myself anyway.)
Anyway. It’s completely out of my hands. I hope H has the guts to tell me face to face his “decision”. But I’m not counting on it. I don’t think he can face me.
Next week he is supposed to go to dinner with the family. S22 asked him and he originally agreed a few weeks back. We’ll see.
In any event, the end of the month will bring clarity. Answers to some questions.
If he chooses #2, I think it’s time for me to file for D. Actually. I’m going to ask him to.
And I think I’ll be o.k. with that. But that's today. The thought doesn't cause me the anxiety it used to.
Still praying for guidance.
Still praying for H.
Still filling my life with family, friends, and activities. I’ve got 3 weeks before the kids go back to college. I will enjoy every minute. Then a 5 day vacation after that to visit my family. Then the end of the month will be here.
Life if full and good in spite of it all.
Grace
H and I have been exchanging e-mails for about 1 week now. Way too many and too much said to go into it all. We shared some very real, raw emotions. H is still in turmoil. Obviously very damaged, and it’s clear to me he doesn’t know how to lift himself out of the pit. He states he is “making a decision” about getting out of his current apartment by Sept 1. So, change is coming.
This is an excerpt from one of his e-mails
“You know, I read this and it's like I don't recognize this coming from you. like a different voice. Different attitude. different ideas. Obviously you have grown during these last 10 or so months. You've changed. I've changed. it's been a changing time for both of us.”
and
“so I think I have to do something. Even if you say you're not feeling dangled. You DO seem fine. Your words. your mood. your FB posts indicates somehow who seems relatively at peace with her life, with or without me in the house. maybe its your church and how you've thrown yourself into it? But you do seem mentally good. Better than me anyway.
But it's 1 August tomorrow. life is short. I have to come to a decision even when I know that I will not be anywhere near 100% certain that the decision is the right one”
I sent a response to him about that change he sees in me, having to do with my relationships with God, family and friends. I also told him I had no idea what decisions he was weighing, and whether exploring R with me is even on that list, but that I was in no way expecting a response from him on that. This is his last e-mail to me:
“yes, of course i have considered all the options. 1) move home and work it out, 2) get a place with her, 3) get my own place with neither, 4) end it all”
#4 scares me. Makes me worried for him. But, if I had to guess today, I would put money on him choosing option #2. That’s the only sure way to have at least one person in his life without having to face his demons, as messed up as the R probably is. I’m not even sure I’d agree to #1 at this point.
I also know there has been sporadic contact from a realtor and OW. Backtracking, moving forward. I have no idea. OW’s home is now off the market. (Yes, I’ve been snooping. But it doesn’t give me anxiety like it did months ago. I’m trying to stay informed so I’m not blindsided. That’s what I’m telling myself anyway.)
Anyway. It’s completely out of my hands. I hope H has the guts to tell me face to face his “decision”. But I’m not counting on it. I don’t think he can face me.
Next week he is supposed to go to dinner with the family. S22 asked him and he originally agreed a few weeks back. We’ll see.
In any event, the end of the month will bring clarity. Answers to some questions.
If he chooses #2, I think it’s time for me to file for D. Actually. I’m going to ask him to.
And I think I’ll be o.k. with that. But that's today. The thought doesn't cause me the anxiety it used to.
Still praying for guidance.
Still praying for H.
Still filling my life with family, friends, and activities. I’ve got 3 weeks before the kids go back to college. I will enjoy every minute. Then a 5 day vacation after that to visit my family. Then the end of the month will be here.
Life if full and good in spite of it all.
Grace
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/02/19 09:44 PM
Originally Posted by Grace21
If he chooses #2, I think it’s time for me to file for D. Actually. I’m going to ask him to.
And I think I’ll be o.k. with that. But that's today. The thought doesn't cause me the anxiety it used to.
And I think I’ll be o.k. with that. But that's today. The thought doesn't cause me the anxiety it used to.
I had a bit of time before I meet my friend for drinks and dinner, and re-read what I wrote. Since posting last time, I have reflected on this statement a bit.
I'm not "O.K." with it. I'm not o.k. with him wanting to live with another woman before he even tells me he wants a D. I'm not o.k. with his vague (and not so vague) references to "ending it all". It pisses me off.
It hurts, too.
Fleeting thoughts of me not ever being good enough to be faithful for. (although they are fleeting, as I truly know it's his deficit, not mine).
And I'm not o.k. with D. Read someone else's post on another thread that talked about how people just throw away relationships. It's true. So many see them as disposable.
It's very hard to truly understand the mind in crisis. In distress.
I'm glad I'm put together, level headed. Find joy. Have friends.
I'm glad I'm not in H's shoes.
Maybe I'm right were I need to be today.
Still suc*** sometimes.
P.S.
OW's house sold. So the pressure is on. I think he will cave. His life. Not mine. Time will bring answers
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/02/19 10:43 PM
Grace - I’m sorry. That is awfully painful to hear him lay out his various options.
Taking the emotion out the whole equation, the fact he is undecided between so many wildly varying plans shows you how messed up he is. This is where there’s that question of doormat vs. standing. If you were to have a guy you were dating tell you these options, how would you answer?
With my MLCer I put up with (way) more because there was a marriage and children at stake. But, in the end I knew I deserved better and was putting up with stuff I never would have accepted from a guy I was dating.
So, he thinks he has all these options at his fingertips like you are just sitting home on your hands waiting for him? Mine did the same. They are quite full of themselves - like teens who think the world revolves around their whims. If he chose you would you actually believe it given the other things he’s still mulling?!?!
That said, if we maintain our self respect and lose our marriages, we have not lost anything that was worth having.
Taking the emotion out the whole equation, the fact he is undecided between so many wildly varying plans shows you how messed up he is. This is where there’s that question of doormat vs. standing. If you were to have a guy you were dating tell you these options, how would you answer?
With my MLCer I put up with (way) more because there was a marriage and children at stake. But, in the end I knew I deserved better and was putting up with stuff I never would have accepted from a guy I was dating.
So, he thinks he has all these options at his fingertips like you are just sitting home on your hands waiting for him? Mine did the same. They are quite full of themselves - like teens who think the world revolves around their whims. If he chose you would you actually believe it given the other things he’s still mulling?!?!
That said, if we maintain our self respect and lose our marriages, we have not lost anything that was worth having.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/02/19 11:57 PM
Grace, you represent your name well.
Your post about accepting his decision had me pause. Your more recent post had me exhale. I know the back and forth feeling you are experiencing. Some moments we are so very strong. Some moments we are able to admit the pain - which comes alongside the strength. But it's deep.
I exhaled with your more recent post because it seemed more authentic and in tune with what you're experiencing. You're so in touch with what is really going on here. I've been spending a lot of time in the former post mentality: the too-tough-I've-got-this camp where we put our pain to the side. We've got to balance the two and not ignore it.
I wanted to remind you of Option #5: He does nothing. He says he will make a decision and he might. But the pressure might get to him, and he may go into hiding or just refuse to answer. I want you to be prepared for that out come as well.
You're so strong for admitting that #2 very well may be his course of action. I'm so very, very sorry.
Your post about accepting his decision had me pause. Your more recent post had me exhale. I know the back and forth feeling you are experiencing. Some moments we are so very strong. Some moments we are able to admit the pain - which comes alongside the strength. But it's deep.
I exhaled with your more recent post because it seemed more authentic and in tune with what you're experiencing. You're so in touch with what is really going on here. I've been spending a lot of time in the former post mentality: the too-tough-I've-got-this camp where we put our pain to the side. We've got to balance the two and not ignore it.
I wanted to remind you of Option #5: He does nothing. He says he will make a decision and he might. But the pressure might get to him, and he may go into hiding or just refuse to answer. I want you to be prepared for that out come as well.
You're so strong for admitting that #2 very well may be his course of action. I'm so very, very sorry.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/03/19 03:02 AM
Hello Grace
HaWho and Yail have given very good advice and reminders. Doormat vs standing. And there are many possibilities, more than four.
That back and forth feeling is a bear. You’ve got all month, you need to let it go. Wrestling with it for 30 days will wear you out.
Talking about one month:
Expectations. Be careful.
H says he is making a decision about getting out of his apartment, not that he will or is getting out. He could decide to stay. He could decide something and not implement it or follow through with it. The MLCer is pretty flaky with following through with things.
Your many conversations have drawn you back in. He can manipulate you. Push your buttons. Even if he doesn’t know he is. However, most MLCer are exceedingly crafty when working to get their way. They can and do manipulate very well and bring the LBS right back into the thick of it. It is really incredible given how Swiss cheese like they are.
Remember H, and MLCers, are driven to this behaviour. They need to do it. He pushed enough that you were contemplating asking him to file, when he moves in with her. Stuff that has let happened yet. (((Grace)))
I totally get it. And it’s a good indication that you are not made of stone and still have a compassionate squishy heart.
Bring the focus back to you, your kids, and your full and good life.
Share your fleeting feelings here and leave H to his path.
DnJ
HaWho and Yail have given very good advice and reminders. Doormat vs standing. And there are many possibilities, more than four.
That back and forth feeling is a bear. You’ve got all month, you need to let it go. Wrestling with it for 30 days will wear you out.
Talking about one month:
Originally Posted by Grace21
He states he is “making a decision” about getting out of his current apartment by Sept 1. So, change is coming.
Originally Posted by Grace21
In any event, the end of the month will bring clarity. Answers to some questions.
Expectations. Be careful.
H says he is making a decision about getting out of his apartment, not that he will or is getting out. He could decide to stay. He could decide something and not implement it or follow through with it. The MLCer is pretty flaky with following through with things.
Your many conversations have drawn you back in. He can manipulate you. Push your buttons. Even if he doesn’t know he is. However, most MLCer are exceedingly crafty when working to get their way. They can and do manipulate very well and bring the LBS right back into the thick of it. It is really incredible given how Swiss cheese like they are.
Remember H, and MLCers, are driven to this behaviour. They need to do it. He pushed enough that you were contemplating asking him to file, when he moves in with her. Stuff that has let happened yet. (((Grace)))
I totally get it. And it’s a good indication that you are not made of stone and still have a compassionate squishy heart.
Bring the focus back to you, your kids, and your full and good life.
Share your fleeting feelings here and leave H to his path.
DnJ
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/03/19 12:13 PM
HaWho, Yail, and Dnj.
Thanks for the insight. It’s helpful. Grounded me a bit.
I’m beginning to think they are one and the same sometimes.
I do wonder if he thinks if he “chose me” whether he believes he could just come back at that moment. And no, I would not believe him at all. There would have to be major changes over a period of months, therapy, etc. He has lied for so many years that I don’t know if I could ever believe anything he says ever again.
Thanks for this reminder. My nature is to handle things with dignity, take care of business, and stifle my feelings. I put my feelings aside during our marriage so much. No more. If I ignore them, I will stay stuck. I don’t want to be stuck.
You are correct. It did. However, it was the first exchange of real thoughts and emotions from H in years. Maybe for me too. So for that, I don't regret it. But, I can see how his words can manipulate me. I will guard against it going forward.
I don’t really believe he will do nothing. But, it’s a reminder that I won’t know until I know. I’m going to work hard the next few days to detach from it. I can’t control it, I have no say in it, and H certainly hasn’t asked for my help. I think I need to reread your post about fear again, DnJ.
I’ve got a full day with D20. S22 comes home today for almost 3 weeks. Dinner with both tonight. I’d say that’s a good start to getting on with things. Getting on with life.
Grace
Thanks for the insight. It’s helpful. Grounded me a bit.
Originally Posted by HaWho
This is where there’s that question of doormat vs. standing.
I’m beginning to think they are one and the same sometimes.
Originally Posted by HaWho
So, he thinks he has all these options at his fingertips like you are just sitting home on your hands waiting for him?
Originally Posted by HaWho
If he chose you would you actually believe it given the other things he’s still mulling?!?!
I do wonder if he thinks if he “chose me” whether he believes he could just come back at that moment. And no, I would not believe him at all. There would have to be major changes over a period of months, therapy, etc. He has lied for so many years that I don’t know if I could ever believe anything he says ever again.
Originally Posted by Yail
I exhaled with your more recent post because it seemed more authentic and in tune with what you're experiencing. You're so in touch with what is really going on here. I've been spending a lot of time in the former post mentality: the too-tough-I've-got-this camp where we put our pain to the side. We've got to balance the two and not ignore it.
Thanks for this reminder. My nature is to handle things with dignity, take care of business, and stifle my feelings. I put my feelings aside during our marriage so much. No more. If I ignore them, I will stay stuck. I don’t want to be stuck.
Originally Posted by Yail
I wanted to remind you of Option #5: He does nothing. He says he will make a decision and he might. But the pressure might get to him, and he may go into hiding or just refuse to answer. I want you to be prepared for that out come as well.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Your many conversations have drawn you back in. He can manipulate you. Push your buttons.
You are correct. It did. However, it was the first exchange of real thoughts and emotions from H in years. Maybe for me too. So for that, I don't regret it. But, I can see how his words can manipulate me. I will guard against it going forward.
Originally Posted by DnJ
H says he is making a decision about getting out of his apartment, not that he will or is getting out. He could decide to stay. He could decide something and not implement it or follow through with it. The MLCer is pretty flaky with following through with things.
I don’t really believe he will do nothing. But, it’s a reminder that I won’t know until I know. I’m going to work hard the next few days to detach from it. I can’t control it, I have no say in it, and H certainly hasn’t asked for my help. I think I need to reread your post about fear again, DnJ.
I’ve got a full day with D20. S22 comes home today for almost 3 weeks. Dinner with both tonight. I’d say that’s a good start to getting on with things. Getting on with life.
Grace
Doormat or Stander? - 08/03/19 04:29 PM
Here’s another thing I’ve been contemplating: When does standing become doormat?
If anyone wants to weigh in on that, I’m interested in your thoughts.
Journaling…..
If I were to poll 100 people about my situation, I’m willing to bet that over 90% would think I’m a doormat. I think I was a doormat when H was in the home, and I was practically begging to work things out. But now? Since he has left, I’ve evolved. My true inner self has emerged from its cocoon. I’m still evolving. Does waiting while H makes his big decision make me a doormat? Am I really creeping back to my old self where I just want to have things the way they were, as messed up as it was?
Perhaps the word “wait” is the key. I’ve done a lot in the last 10 months. H even commented how I’ve changed. So, I’m not really waiting, am I? Maybe that’s the key difference in standing vs. doormat. But after H stated his 4 choices so clearly, does that make me a “waiter” (i.e. doormat), or am I still a stander? Does the difference really matter? Maybe if I really understood the difference, it would matter.
I don’t want things the way they were. They can’t be. My head is not buried in the sand any longer. Too much water under the bridge. We can’t go back.
So I guess that leaves me with what do I do with my time going forward.
Waiting means stalled. No going forward there.
Standing allows me the compassion for H, without having to go back. Standing tells me to turn to God, and forget about H’s actions. I do, then I find myself trying to take control back. It’s futile, as I really have no control over H. Then the anxiety sets in. Got to have better self-control in this area.
Standing allows me the time to continue my inner evolution. To perfect ME. To continue to develop a closer relationship with God, friends, my family. This will keep me moving forward.
I’m not a doormat. I know it. It really doesn’t matter if H knows it or not.
Perhaps that is my trouble.
I still wonder what H thinks. I probably even care what he thinks.
Time to let that go, too, and continue my stand.
If anyone wants to weigh in on that, I’m interested in your thoughts.
Journaling…..
If I were to poll 100 people about my situation, I’m willing to bet that over 90% would think I’m a doormat. I think I was a doormat when H was in the home, and I was practically begging to work things out. But now? Since he has left, I’ve evolved. My true inner self has emerged from its cocoon. I’m still evolving. Does waiting while H makes his big decision make me a doormat? Am I really creeping back to my old self where I just want to have things the way they were, as messed up as it was?
Perhaps the word “wait” is the key. I’ve done a lot in the last 10 months. H even commented how I’ve changed. So, I’m not really waiting, am I? Maybe that’s the key difference in standing vs. doormat. But after H stated his 4 choices so clearly, does that make me a “waiter” (i.e. doormat), or am I still a stander? Does the difference really matter? Maybe if I really understood the difference, it would matter.
I don’t want things the way they were. They can’t be. My head is not buried in the sand any longer. Too much water under the bridge. We can’t go back.
So I guess that leaves me with what do I do with my time going forward.
Waiting means stalled. No going forward there.
Standing allows me the compassion for H, without having to go back. Standing tells me to turn to God, and forget about H’s actions. I do, then I find myself trying to take control back. It’s futile, as I really have no control over H. Then the anxiety sets in. Got to have better self-control in this area.
Standing allows me the time to continue my inner evolution. To perfect ME. To continue to develop a closer relationship with God, friends, my family. This will keep me moving forward.
I’m not a doormat. I know it. It really doesn’t matter if H knows it or not.
Perhaps that is my trouble.
I still wonder what H thinks. I probably even care what he thinks.
Time to let that go, too, and continue my stand.
Re: Doormat or Stander? - 08/03/19 05:27 PM
Hi Grace21:
I get this question from people too, even though I'm only a few months post bomb drop. Folks ask "how come you're waiting around for him when he's done x,y & z?" Well, the way I look at it, is time passes regardless of what you do.
If you're sitting around crying every night over his photo while continuing to not set boundaries or letting him experience consquences of his actions, well, you're probably a doormat!
If, on the other hand, (as I am) you are still crying, still have the door open should he decide to recommit, BUT you are moving forward with life plans in case he doesn't, and working on yourself...well, you aren't actually stalled, or waiting or whatever. Time passes regardless, it's what you do with it that counts.
I get this question from people too, even though I'm only a few months post bomb drop. Folks ask "how come you're waiting around for him when he's done x,y & z?" Well, the way I look at it, is time passes regardless of what you do.
If you're sitting around crying every night over his photo while continuing to not set boundaries or letting him experience consquences of his actions, well, you're probably a doormat!
If, on the other hand, (as I am) you are still crying, still have the door open should he decide to recommit, BUT you are moving forward with life plans in case he doesn't, and working on yourself...well, you aren't actually stalled, or waiting or whatever. Time passes regardless, it's what you do with it that counts.
Re: Doormat or Stander? - 08/03/19 07:33 PM
Hello Grace
Standing never becomes doormat.
Be careful with your words, your brain is listening. You put standing and doormat together, as if one leads to the other.
Yes, like Barb wisely stated, other folks will press you, asking why you are waiting around when he has done blah blah blah. They have never been in these shoes, and do not, and have not taking the time to, understand the reasons to stand.
Realize you are not waiting around. Being still is much different than waiting.
Also waiting is not the defining characteristic of doormat. Laying there while someone wipes their boots upon you is a doormat. Allowing disrespect.
Yep, if polling the general population for sure. That doesn’t mean the majority is right.
I’ve been there, even polled people to gauge and try to get a handle on what I was doing. That was “trying to get a handle”. Trying, of course didn’t work.
Standing for you - does get a handle on things.
These same people, now, do not see me that way. I am not a doormat.
Imagine next year, people will not see you like a doormat. They will see you as I do, right now - a beacon.
People will treat you as you allow them to treat you. And we see other’s treatment or thoughts of us as we project our own internal self outward. If you believe you are a doormat then you will see people interactions with you through that lens and think everyone thinks you are a doormat, because you do.
The same is for victim, stander, pillar of strength, beacon, and so on. Our thinking and beliefs creates our reality and our perceptions of it. Choice. Be a person who lives in the light and grace. You will become that, and be seen like that.
You’ve let H get into you head. A normal and expected step in the process, from my view anyhow.
Questioning and challenging ideas and advice is normal and healthy. Every single LBS, even the vets, rebelled against the process somewhere along their path. You have to challenge, it is key to understanding.
We push to see just how strong our values are, how strong the advice is. To ensure it won’t break. Exploring the strengths and weaknesses.
You are currently challenging your belief on standing. You views on H, your understanding of MLC, your belief in you.
This effort, this push, brings about an understanding and compassion. And an empathetic viewpoint. It’s setting yourself up to start letting go - of H, of M, of fear. I want to be super clear here. Letting go is not throwing away. Letting go of your marriage is not throwing it away. You will understand - honest.
So much stirs up during this time, and so much settles. Understanding and compassion are very much worth all this effort.
Be easy on yourself.
You are a pretty levelheaded gal with ample self-control. And you are seeing the next leg in the journey. You are doing just fine.
Yes!
Now, believe it.
Continue to stand. And stand for you and your beliefs. You have an amazing strength inside you. It will flourish as you continue to move forward.
DnJ
Originally Posted by Grace21
When does standing become doormat?
Standing never becomes doormat.
Be careful with your words, your brain is listening. You put standing and doormat together, as if one leads to the other.
Yes, like Barb wisely stated, other folks will press you, asking why you are waiting around when he has done blah blah blah. They have never been in these shoes, and do not, and have not taking the time to, understand the reasons to stand.
Realize you are not waiting around. Being still is much different than waiting.
Also waiting is not the defining characteristic of doormat. Laying there while someone wipes their boots upon you is a doormat. Allowing disrespect.
Originally Posted by Grace21
If I were to poll 100 people about my situation, I’m willing to bet that over 90% would think I’m a doormat.
Yep, if polling the general population for sure. That doesn’t mean the majority is right.
I’ve been there, even polled people to gauge and try to get a handle on what I was doing. That was “trying to get a handle”. Trying, of course didn’t work.
Standing for you - does get a handle on things.
These same people, now, do not see me that way. I am not a doormat.
Imagine next year, people will not see you like a doormat. They will see you as I do, right now - a beacon.
People will treat you as you allow them to treat you. And we see other’s treatment or thoughts of us as we project our own internal self outward. If you believe you are a doormat then you will see people interactions with you through that lens and think everyone thinks you are a doormat, because you do.
The same is for victim, stander, pillar of strength, beacon, and so on. Our thinking and beliefs creates our reality and our perceptions of it. Choice. Be a person who lives in the light and grace. You will become that, and be seen like that.
Originally Posted by Grace21
...H stated his 4 choices so clearly, does that make me a “waiter” (i.e. doormat), or am I still a stander?
You’ve let H get into you head. A normal and expected step in the process, from my view anyhow.
Questioning and challenging ideas and advice is normal and healthy. Every single LBS, even the vets, rebelled against the process somewhere along their path. You have to challenge, it is key to understanding.
We push to see just how strong our values are, how strong the advice is. To ensure it won’t break. Exploring the strengths and weaknesses.
You are currently challenging your belief on standing. You views on H, your understanding of MLC, your belief in you.
This effort, this push, brings about an understanding and compassion. And an empathetic viewpoint. It’s setting yourself up to start letting go - of H, of M, of fear. I want to be super clear here. Letting go is not throwing away. Letting go of your marriage is not throwing it away. You will understand - honest.
So much stirs up during this time, and so much settles. Understanding and compassion are very much worth all this effort.
Originally Posted by Grace21
Standing allows me the compassion for H, without having to go back. Standing tells me to turn to God, and forget about H’s actions. I do, then I find myself trying to take control back. It’s futile, as I really have no control over H. Then the anxiety sets in. Got to have better self-control in this area.
Be easy on yourself.
You are a pretty levelheaded gal with ample self-control. And you are seeing the next leg in the journey. You are doing just fine.
Originally Posted by Grace21
I’m not a doormat. I know it.
Yes!
Now, believe it.
Continue to stand. And stand for you and your beliefs. You have an amazing strength inside you. It will flourish as you continue to move forward.
DnJ
Re: Doormat or Stander? - 08/04/19 06:01 PM
Originally Posted by DnJ
People will treat you as you allow them to treat you. And we see other’s treatment or thoughts of us as we project our own internal self outward. If you believe you are a doormat then you will see people interactions with you through that lens and think everyone thinks you are a doormat, because you do.
The same is for victim, stander, pillar of strength, beacon, and so on. Our thinking and beliefs creates our reality and our perceptions of it. Choice. Be a person who lives in the light and grace. You will become that, and be seen like that.
The same is for victim, stander, pillar of strength, beacon, and so on. Our thinking and beliefs creates our reality and our perceptions of it. Choice. Be a person who lives in the light and grace. You will become that, and be seen like that.
Yes - I end up looking at what people (including H) say or do and see if it applies to that negative label (i.e. doormat). I do believe we can become what we want to be through positive thinking and labels. H has all kinds of those negative labels for himself, and he is refusing to change them. It's keeping him stuck, depressed, miserable.
I need to get back to just 'being'. Let life bring me joy, happiness and contentment.
A friend of mine called today just to check up on me. She said she totally gets what I am doing. I appreciated that validation, and needed it today. She is one of the Christian woman that I believe God placed in my life. I've been giving her the support she needs too in her own difficult marital journey.
******************
To change subjects, I've got both kids under my roof for 2 1/2 weeks. So wonderful to have S22 back home. But, my feelings about H, and his R with OW are still so raw, even knowing that it's been going on for probably 2 1/2 years (1 1/2 years before he moved out). I mentioned that I and a girlfriend whose daughter goes to the same college want to go to a football game this year. S22 states "Dad said he was going to come to a football game this year". I didn't say this, but I thought "With OW?" Of course I'm projecting. He may go with S22 (even though he doesn't care for football). But it still stung, the thought of H going with OW. I wanted to go to a game for 3 years, and H never could commit. I hate that these little zingers come out of nowhere.
*Sigh*
Time to get back to focusing on me and my family, living each day filling it with things that give me joy.
Time to get busy. Best medicine when the thoughts get out of hand.
Time to clean out a closet or two, then bake a dessert for a church pot-luck dinner tonight.
Time to get back to what makes life good.
Grace
Re: Doormat or Stander? - 08/05/19 11:44 AM
Journaling….
The rollercoaster ride of emotions continues. I’m struggling these last few days. I won’t lie.
My first thought when I woke up this morning was of H and OW. Of his “choosing” her. Why aren’t I good enough? I’ve got lots to give. Why can’t H receive my love? Visions of them together. Happy. Making a new life together. I don’t want those thoughts to invade my nice life. It stinks.
In reality, H is probably not happy. He could very well be just trying to get by day to day.
I have a strong urge to send him another note. But I won’t. It’s useless. He doesn’t want to hear it. It’s too difficult for him to face it. How can a man say he loves me and admires me (his words in a note last week), and treat me this way? Oh yes, he said he wanted to “spare me from himself”. I call BS on that. Another excuse. Copout. Making me the scapegoat for his choices.
I’m trying to get on with life. Detach. Our exchange last week really did get to me. I don’t think I’m back to the beginning, but I’ve got work to do for sure. I need to reread the detachment thread.
I started my Monday morning with 5:30 a.m. spin class. I’m thankful for my activities and work to dull the thoughts swirling around in my head.
Enough rambling.
Time to get on with life.
The rollercoaster ride of emotions continues. I’m struggling these last few days. I won’t lie.
My first thought when I woke up this morning was of H and OW. Of his “choosing” her. Why aren’t I good enough? I’ve got lots to give. Why can’t H receive my love? Visions of them together. Happy. Making a new life together. I don’t want those thoughts to invade my nice life. It stinks.
In reality, H is probably not happy. He could very well be just trying to get by day to day.
I have a strong urge to send him another note. But I won’t. It’s useless. He doesn’t want to hear it. It’s too difficult for him to face it. How can a man say he loves me and admires me (his words in a note last week), and treat me this way? Oh yes, he said he wanted to “spare me from himself”. I call BS on that. Another excuse. Copout. Making me the scapegoat for his choices.
I’m trying to get on with life. Detach. Our exchange last week really did get to me. I don’t think I’m back to the beginning, but I’ve got work to do for sure. I need to reread the detachment thread.
I started my Monday morning with 5:30 a.m. spin class. I’m thankful for my activities and work to dull the thoughts swirling around in my head.
Enough rambling.
Time to get on with life.
Re: Doormat or Stander? - 08/05/19 01:09 PM
MY XH said similar..they are better off without me
I actually think there may be truth to what they say ..
Your H is probably doing things that you would not approve of and he is not going to stop
he may not want to subject you to his true lifestyle but the OW may be ok with it
also the visions of the OW and H living happily ever after is another lie we may beleieve
but as time goes on...you will clearly see his craziness and desperation
maybe there are a few MLCers that finally get it together but most go downward and the OW goes down as well
if the R lasts
I saw this in my XH life
at 40 he went from being a sober responsible man--owning a business,a home 2 kids , friends, family ect..
to
marrying a 28 year old drug addict,losing his business, home and family
moving to MW and working as a clerk in a store, drinking, using prescriptions and becoming a desperate unhappy man
I dont wish that on him or anyone but each person has to be free to choose their lifestyle, health ,recovery or downfall
I actually think there may be truth to what they say ..
Your H is probably doing things that you would not approve of and he is not going to stop
he may not want to subject you to his true lifestyle but the OW may be ok with it
also the visions of the OW and H living happily ever after is another lie we may beleieve
but as time goes on...you will clearly see his craziness and desperation
maybe there are a few MLCers that finally get it together but most go downward and the OW goes down as well
if the R lasts
I saw this in my XH life
at 40 he went from being a sober responsible man--owning a business,a home 2 kids , friends, family ect..
to
marrying a 28 year old drug addict,losing his business, home and family
moving to MW and working as a clerk in a store, drinking, using prescriptions and becoming a desperate unhappy man
I dont wish that on him or anyone but each person has to be free to choose their lifestyle, health ,recovery or downfall
Re: Doormat or Stander? - 08/05/19 09:02 PM
Peace - what you say rings true. I've thought a bit about all that's occurred. H said he loves and admires me. I believe that to be true. Perhaps (probably) he thinks I'd be better off without him. That could very well be true also. He really was a crappy H is so many ways. Left me with no emotional support, and had a secret life much of the time, whether a person or internet. Sure we had some nice times, but overall his mind was elsewhere much of the time.
I understand the reasons for it now, even if H doesn't (or simply refuses to acknowledge it).
I wonder why he hasn't filed for D if that's what he really believes? Perhaps it's coming.
Anyone want to weigh in on why some MLCrs won't file for D, I'd be interested in hearing your perspective.
Yes. It's a lie we believe, or at least a fabrication. At this point, I don't think he's happy with her either, but is in so deep he doesn't know how to begin to extricate himself. And, she is the only person that he has as a "friend". It's too bad he doesn't see me, and his family, as people that can help fill that void of loneliness. Too bad he doesn't realize his loneliness starts from within, not what he doesn't have externally.
I understand, but it hurts anyway. It stinks, actually.
I understand the reasons for it now, even if H doesn't (or simply refuses to acknowledge it).
I wonder why he hasn't filed for D if that's what he really believes? Perhaps it's coming.
Anyone want to weigh in on why some MLCrs won't file for D, I'd be interested in hearing your perspective.
Originally Posted by peacetoday
also the visions of the OW and H living happily ever after is another lie we may believe
Yes. It's a lie we believe, or at least a fabrication. At this point, I don't think he's happy with her either, but is in so deep he doesn't know how to begin to extricate himself. And, she is the only person that he has as a "friend". It's too bad he doesn't see me, and his family, as people that can help fill that void of loneliness. Too bad he doesn't realize his loneliness starts from within, not what he doesn't have externally.
I understand, but it hurts anyway. It stinks, actually.
Re: Doormat or Stander? - 08/05/19 09:43 PM
Grace,
Some may start divorce proceedings, but when it comes to doing all of the necessary work involved, they stall. Others do not file because they want us to file so that they don't look like the bad guys. They want to say that we gave up and filed. And, there are those who don't have a clue what they want and will not file at all, hoping against hope, that we won't.
Some may start divorce proceedings, but when it comes to doing all of the necessary work involved, they stall. Others do not file because they want us to file so that they don't look like the bad guys. They want to say that we gave up and filed. And, there are those who don't have a clue what they want and will not file at all, hoping against hope, that we won't.
Re: Doormat or Stander? - 08/05/19 10:11 PM
Job - makes sense. I could see H easily choosing #2 and #3. I'm so prepared with everything already "just in case", he doesn't realize that I've already done the "work".
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/08/19 04:00 PM
Journaling…..
I’ve decided I need some help in detaching. I’ve done an o.k. job, but I regress too many times, and I recently had a big setback. Maybe (probably) my own fault for initiating convos with H. I don’t regret doing it, because H acknowledged a few things he never did before. But now I can’t stop thinking about my sitch, Him, Her.
H won’t be coming home any time soon, if ever. I have to accept that. His choice. I need to come to terms with being able to accept, even though I don’t like it or agree with it. I need to live completely as if he never will come back. I think this will be the only way I can consistently live a happy, satisfying life. I also realize I might need a little help in sorting out my reasons for holding on and therefore not being able to detach, and help in exploring my stand. My will to stand is waning. I am contemplating D more often.
I’m seeing my IC today, and I think I will make an appointment with my pastor too.
I took down all the pictures of H and I from the office a few days ago. I really hadn’t gone in there in weeks. There was also a certificate of renewal of vows from about 8 years ago too. I only left 1 wedding picture. I put them in a closet. I came home and S22 informed me he noted that all the pictures were in the closet so he put them back. I told him I was the one that took them down and put them in the closet. I used it as an opportunity to tell him that we need to come to terms with the fact that it seems his dad isn’t planning to come home soon, and maybe never will. That it made me very sad, but it’s reality. He said “I’m tired of this new normal”. I told him I was too.
It made me start thinking about whether I should be the one to let the kids know that his dad has a girlfriend, even if he doesn’t move in with her. I have no idea of the status of it. I considered the reasons why I should tell them. Do I need to tell them? If he lives with her, then yes, I think I do. But if he doesn’t? Is it my place? Would I be doing it for a good reason? Lots to consider. In any event, I guess I’ll wait for word on his new living arrangements. I got an e-mail that there was a hard check against his credit for “Tenant Check”. It would appear he has found a place. With or without OW, I don’t know – yet. Her house is under contract, so she will be looking for a place too.
*Sigh* I’m a bit tired of the whole situation.
Maybe after an appointment or 2 with my IC I will find a bit more clarity. I still have 2 or 3 good friends that give me sage advice. I’m thankful for that, too. Last night my friend said “I don’t want you to make any decisions based on your emotions”. I thanked her for that reminder. I’ve also decided that for the other friends that know a bit about my sitch but are not as supportive of my “stand”, I will not give them further details. Just that H and I still are not together.
H will be joining us for dinner at a high end steak house on Friday night. Late B-Day treat for the kids. He will meet us there. I will be pleasant, upbeat, and look terrific.
For me, because it makes me feel good.
For H, to show him I’m doing just fine.
Grace
I’ve decided I need some help in detaching. I’ve done an o.k. job, but I regress too many times, and I recently had a big setback. Maybe (probably) my own fault for initiating convos with H. I don’t regret doing it, because H acknowledged a few things he never did before. But now I can’t stop thinking about my sitch, Him, Her.
H won’t be coming home any time soon, if ever. I have to accept that. His choice. I need to come to terms with being able to accept, even though I don’t like it or agree with it. I need to live completely as if he never will come back. I think this will be the only way I can consistently live a happy, satisfying life. I also realize I might need a little help in sorting out my reasons for holding on and therefore not being able to detach, and help in exploring my stand. My will to stand is waning. I am contemplating D more often.
I’m seeing my IC today, and I think I will make an appointment with my pastor too.
I took down all the pictures of H and I from the office a few days ago. I really hadn’t gone in there in weeks. There was also a certificate of renewal of vows from about 8 years ago too. I only left 1 wedding picture. I put them in a closet. I came home and S22 informed me he noted that all the pictures were in the closet so he put them back. I told him I was the one that took them down and put them in the closet. I used it as an opportunity to tell him that we need to come to terms with the fact that it seems his dad isn’t planning to come home soon, and maybe never will. That it made me very sad, but it’s reality. He said “I’m tired of this new normal”. I told him I was too.
It made me start thinking about whether I should be the one to let the kids know that his dad has a girlfriend, even if he doesn’t move in with her. I have no idea of the status of it. I considered the reasons why I should tell them. Do I need to tell them? If he lives with her, then yes, I think I do. But if he doesn’t? Is it my place? Would I be doing it for a good reason? Lots to consider. In any event, I guess I’ll wait for word on his new living arrangements. I got an e-mail that there was a hard check against his credit for “Tenant Check”. It would appear he has found a place. With or without OW, I don’t know – yet. Her house is under contract, so she will be looking for a place too.
*Sigh* I’m a bit tired of the whole situation.
Maybe after an appointment or 2 with my IC I will find a bit more clarity. I still have 2 or 3 good friends that give me sage advice. I’m thankful for that, too. Last night my friend said “I don’t want you to make any decisions based on your emotions”. I thanked her for that reminder. I’ve also decided that for the other friends that know a bit about my sitch but are not as supportive of my “stand”, I will not give them further details. Just that H and I still are not together.
H will be joining us for dinner at a high end steak house on Friday night. Late B-Day treat for the kids. He will meet us there. I will be pleasant, upbeat, and look terrific.
For me, because it makes me feel good.
For H, to show him I’m doing just fine.
Grace
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/09/19 02:59 AM
Hello Grace
Detachment comes and goes, getting better and more each time. You are doing fine. Really.
Speaking with your IC and pastor are good ideas.
And I do understand having to limit what you tell certain friends, even really good ones. Standing - some people just don’t get it. They want you healed and happy, fast. And to do it properly takes as long as it takes.
Grace you are a smart woman with a clever mind; your shield is bright and your sword is sharp.
Detachment and addiction. The withdrawal from the pull of our memories of spouse and life is painful. Relief comes from some of those actions, like snooping - it feeds the addiction so that withdrawal pain subsides for a while. However, it brings about other pains. Every time dulls that sword a bit. Keep it sharp.
Once you get through the withdrawal, it will amaze you at just how much an irrational hold it had on you. I found a whole new appreciation for people’s addictions and sufferings.
Some ideas, and some things I found helpful:
Put away the pictures, even the last 1 wedding picture. I know how difficult that is. God knows I do.
I kept my pictures up far too long. And just long enough. That’s the paradox of this mess. Until you choose to do it, it is taking too long, and once you choose and do it, it is right on time. That goes for a lot more than pictures by the way.
What I am trying to say is the choice to follow the counterintuitive advice, to take a leap of faith and stick to it, is the most direct route through all this. That may not be the route you need to take, and that is completely ok. It’s your choice.
Some other crazy hard things to do. Block your spouse on social media. They are not your Facebook friend. Unfriend, unfollow, and block them. Do not worry the modern world has many forms of communication of which your wayward husband can contact you. What you’re blocking is your avenue to snoop. To keep you on track. This is for you.
Take 24 to 48 hours to respond. It allows your emotions to settle, which doesn’t then tie your spouse to your anxious feelings that are all churned up when the message first comes in. You are more calm when communicating and that reinforces the emotions you want to reinforce.
Separate what bills you can. I know we talked before about the cell phone. Having that monthly reminder, seeing his calls, and the fear of what would happen if you suggested separate phone bills. It keeps you attached. If he looked after his bill, no you involved in any way, see how there is nothing to tie back too.
Now, as we discussed before, he might get mad and quit paying his half of things. Yep, lots of fear there. And attachment. Getting financial security established is very good at promoting detachment.
Start purchasing gift cards at grocery stores, and so on. If he does something foolish you will have some protection while things are settled. Also the act of planning and purchasing items like that will detach you a bit more. You are doing something to separate yourself from his potential emotional actions.
Yes, you do need to get to there. But not all in one day.
This is an excellent heading. Move forward in this direction, towards the goal you want - that happy, satisfying life.
Your waning desire to stand. The contemplating of divorce more often. This is part of healing. When you were hurt beyond belief (such a good description by the way, I never really understood that before all this) you couldn’t imagine thinking about divorcing H. Look at you now. See how far you’ve come. How much you’ve healed.
Standing until this point is basically a byproduct of our healing process, we really would not do anything else but stand. However, once healed enough to walk away, that is when standing really becomes for you. It becomes a choice and belief. Don’t worry beliefs can and do change, albeit slowly. So you can decide to stand down later if you so choose.
Your waning on standing, and ideas of D, are further signs of your detachment and indifference. You are doing fine. Stay the course and do not make decisions based on emotions. Get through this part. Find detachment and indifference. Things will look much different there.
To tell the kids (young adults) and what to tell them. My kids are S22, S20, S18, and D17. Yours are S22 and D20. So pretty similar. I would tell them and answer all the questions they have. I would not demonize their Dad, I would show compassion for him explaining his turmoil, and realize their compassion will takes some time to be found.
Whenever your kids find out, it will be a shock. Although they must suspect some stuff; still there will be some shock and disbelief. Then the healing can start. Until they know, the healing cannot start. That is a pretty good reason to tell them. Stay compassionate, factual, kind, and understanding. They will follow your fine example.
Letting your kids know will clear the air, and keep things accurate. And accuracy is important for pushing back denial and detaching; you have to see things clearly to know what your facing and where to go.
Enjoy the evening.
Detach.
Look terrific for the important and best reason.
DnJ
Detachment comes and goes, getting better and more each time. You are doing fine. Really.
Speaking with your IC and pastor are good ideas.
And I do understand having to limit what you tell certain friends, even really good ones. Standing - some people just don’t get it. They want you healed and happy, fast. And to do it properly takes as long as it takes.
Originally Posted by Grace21
I’ve decided I need some help in detaching.
Grace you are a smart woman with a clever mind; your shield is bright and your sword is sharp.
Detachment and addiction. The withdrawal from the pull of our memories of spouse and life is painful. Relief comes from some of those actions, like snooping - it feeds the addiction so that withdrawal pain subsides for a while. However, it brings about other pains. Every time dulls that sword a bit. Keep it sharp.
Once you get through the withdrawal, it will amaze you at just how much an irrational hold it had on you. I found a whole new appreciation for people’s addictions and sufferings.
Some ideas, and some things I found helpful:
Put away the pictures, even the last 1 wedding picture. I know how difficult that is. God knows I do.
I kept my pictures up far too long. And just long enough. That’s the paradox of this mess. Until you choose to do it, it is taking too long, and once you choose and do it, it is right on time. That goes for a lot more than pictures by the way.
What I am trying to say is the choice to follow the counterintuitive advice, to take a leap of faith and stick to it, is the most direct route through all this. That may not be the route you need to take, and that is completely ok. It’s your choice.
Some other crazy hard things to do. Block your spouse on social media. They are not your Facebook friend. Unfriend, unfollow, and block them. Do not worry the modern world has many forms of communication of which your wayward husband can contact you. What you’re blocking is your avenue to snoop. To keep you on track. This is for you.
Take 24 to 48 hours to respond. It allows your emotions to settle, which doesn’t then tie your spouse to your anxious feelings that are all churned up when the message first comes in. You are more calm when communicating and that reinforces the emotions you want to reinforce.
Separate what bills you can. I know we talked before about the cell phone. Having that monthly reminder, seeing his calls, and the fear of what would happen if you suggested separate phone bills. It keeps you attached. If he looked after his bill, no you involved in any way, see how there is nothing to tie back too.
Now, as we discussed before, he might get mad and quit paying his half of things. Yep, lots of fear there. And attachment. Getting financial security established is very good at promoting detachment.
Start purchasing gift cards at grocery stores, and so on. If he does something foolish you will have some protection while things are settled. Also the act of planning and purchasing items like that will detach you a bit more. You are doing something to separate yourself from his potential emotional actions.
Originally Posted by Grace21
H won’t be coming home any time soon, if ever. I have to accept that. His choice. I need to come to terms with being able to accept, even though I don’t like it or agree with it.
Yes, you do need to get to there. But not all in one day.
This is an excellent heading. Move forward in this direction, towards the goal you want - that happy, satisfying life.
Your waning desire to stand. The contemplating of divorce more often. This is part of healing. When you were hurt beyond belief (such a good description by the way, I never really understood that before all this) you couldn’t imagine thinking about divorcing H. Look at you now. See how far you’ve come. How much you’ve healed.
Standing until this point is basically a byproduct of our healing process, we really would not do anything else but stand. However, once healed enough to walk away, that is when standing really becomes for you. It becomes a choice and belief. Don’t worry beliefs can and do change, albeit slowly. So you can decide to stand down later if you so choose.
Your waning on standing, and ideas of D, are further signs of your detachment and indifference. You are doing fine. Stay the course and do not make decisions based on emotions. Get through this part. Find detachment and indifference. Things will look much different there.
To tell the kids (young adults) and what to tell them. My kids are S22, S20, S18, and D17. Yours are S22 and D20. So pretty similar. I would tell them and answer all the questions they have. I would not demonize their Dad, I would show compassion for him explaining his turmoil, and realize their compassion will takes some time to be found.
Whenever your kids find out, it will be a shock. Although they must suspect some stuff; still there will be some shock and disbelief. Then the healing can start. Until they know, the healing cannot start. That is a pretty good reason to tell them. Stay compassionate, factual, kind, and understanding. They will follow your fine example.
Letting your kids know will clear the air, and keep things accurate. And accuracy is important for pushing back denial and detaching; you have to see things clearly to know what your facing and where to go.
Originally Posted by Grace21
H will be joining us for dinner at a high end steak house on Friday night. Late B-Day treat for the kids. He will meet us there. I will be pleasant, upbeat, and look terrific.
Enjoy the evening.
Originally Posted by Grace21
For me, because it makes me feel good.
For H, to show him I’m doing just fine.
For H, to show him I’m doing just fine.
Detach.
Look terrific for the important and best reason.
DnJ
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/10/19 12:30 PM
DnJ – Thanks for the well thought out response and advice. I really do appreciate the time and effort it takes to put it all together, but know that it is always useful. I appreciate it.
I get this. I am strong enough to do this. At my IC session, my therapist said something that struck me as brilliant. She said “Remind yourself that you can tolerate and handle uncertainty”. Uncertainty is my biggest problem. I like to plan, organize, control, know RIGHT NOW the outcome.
So. “I will tolerate uncertainty”. “I can handle uncertainty”. Or how about “Uncertainty never killed anybody”.
On my agenda today. In fact I’m going to redecorate the office top to bottom after the kids go back to school. Today I’ll just clean it top to bottom. Start fresh.
Not there yet. I did take H off my newsfeed. He really doesn’t use it much. It’s a band page. It still shows married to me with pics of us here and there. Weird. I will consider.
I’ve said as much to a friend just a few days ago – I don’t want to make any decisions when my emotions are high. I want them logic based, and well thought out. There has been some financial activity recently – phone calls to financial adviser, his inheritance trust, for example. I think he’s probably going to buy a place. Of course I’m anxious about it, but will wait before I say anything and let it play out a bit. I did reach out to my financial advisor though and asked him to let me know if there were any major changes to our joint accounts.
I am considering this. The phone bill is really the only one that ties me to him. TV, internet etc are automatic from our joint account. We do still share a Visa. This might have to be eliminated. He only seems to use it for going out with the kids, so to me it’s not a big deal. Anyway, I will consider this some more.
Actively doing this since H moved out. Have a nice sum in cash and gift cards. Still collecting. Probably could last 3 months on my salary and what I have saved. It does feel good to have a little safety net.
I explored this a bit with my IC. I think I am trying to fight “normal”. After all these years, of course I still have feelings for him. I need to accept that my feelings, whatever they are, are normal for me, and just let them be. Let them ebb and flow, and pass when ready. It’s useless to fight them. Fighting them can keep me stuck, because they will come back if not allow to pass.
The problem is, I still don’t know what to tell them. I’d like to tell them whether H will be living with OW before they go back to school, in their own home where they feel safe, and well before classes start so they have time to deal with their emotions about it. So, I am contemplating asking H next week what his plans are so I have a few days to be available for the kids. Still thinking about this. I also think I will ask H if he will inform the kids of his plans. I still think it’s his responsibility, but I don’t want to “tell him what to do”. If he chooses not to do it, then I have my own choice to inform the kids.
Yes. I think the secrecy of it all with the kids is in part contributing to keeping me stuck and attached. It will be a relief to have them know the truth.
Had a nice time at our dinner last night. Very pleasant evening. I’m relieved.
And, I looked terrific, and felt terrific.
Grace
Originally Posted by DnJ
Detachment and addiction. The withdrawal from the pull of our memories of spouse and life is painful. Relief comes from some of those actions, like snooping - it feeds the addiction so that withdrawal pain subsides for a while. However, it brings about other pains. Every time dulls that sword a bit. Keep it sharp.
I get this. I am strong enough to do this. At my IC session, my therapist said something that struck me as brilliant. She said “Remind yourself that you can tolerate and handle uncertainty”. Uncertainty is my biggest problem. I like to plan, organize, control, know RIGHT NOW the outcome.
So. “I will tolerate uncertainty”. “I can handle uncertainty”. Or how about “Uncertainty never killed anybody”.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Put away the pictures, even the last 1 wedding picture. I know how difficult that is. God knows I do.
On my agenda today. In fact I’m going to redecorate the office top to bottom after the kids go back to school. Today I’ll just clean it top to bottom. Start fresh.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Some other crazy hard things to do. Block your spouse on social media. They are not your Facebook friend. Unfriend, unfollow, and block them. Do not worry the modern world has many forms of communication of which your wayward husband can contact you. What you’re blocking is your avenue to snoop. To keep you on track. This is for you.
Not there yet. I did take H off my newsfeed. He really doesn’t use it much. It’s a band page. It still shows married to me with pics of us here and there. Weird. I will consider.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Take 24 to 48 hours to respond. It allows your emotions to settle, which doesn’t then tie your spouse to your anxious feelings that are all churned up when the message first comes in. You are more calm when communicating and that reinforces the emotions you want to reinforce.
I’ve said as much to a friend just a few days ago – I don’t want to make any decisions when my emotions are high. I want them logic based, and well thought out. There has been some financial activity recently – phone calls to financial adviser, his inheritance trust, for example. I think he’s probably going to buy a place. Of course I’m anxious about it, but will wait before I say anything and let it play out a bit. I did reach out to my financial advisor though and asked him to let me know if there were any major changes to our joint accounts.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Separate what bills you can.
I am considering this. The phone bill is really the only one that ties me to him. TV, internet etc are automatic from our joint account. We do still share a Visa. This might have to be eliminated. He only seems to use it for going out with the kids, so to me it’s not a big deal. Anyway, I will consider this some more.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Start purchasing gift cards at grocery stores, and so on.
Actively doing this since H moved out. Have a nice sum in cash and gift cards. Still collecting. Probably could last 3 months on my salary and what I have saved. It does feel good to have a little safety net.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Your waning on standing, and ideas of D, are further signs of your detachment and indifference.
I explored this a bit with my IC. I think I am trying to fight “normal”. After all these years, of course I still have feelings for him. I need to accept that my feelings, whatever they are, are normal for me, and just let them be. Let them ebb and flow, and pass when ready. It’s useless to fight them. Fighting them can keep me stuck, because they will come back if not allow to pass.
Originally Posted by DnJ
To tell the kids (young adults) and what to tell them….. I would tell them and answer all the questions they have. I would not demonize their Dad, I would show compassion for him explaining his turmoil, and realize their compassion will takes some time to be found. .
The problem is, I still don’t know what to tell them. I’d like to tell them whether H will be living with OW before they go back to school, in their own home where they feel safe, and well before classes start so they have time to deal with their emotions about it. So, I am contemplating asking H next week what his plans are so I have a few days to be available for the kids. Still thinking about this. I also think I will ask H if he will inform the kids of his plans. I still think it’s his responsibility, but I don’t want to “tell him what to do”. If he chooses not to do it, then I have my own choice to inform the kids.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Letting your kids know will clear the air, and keep things accurate. And accuracy is important for pushing back denial and detaching; you have to see things clearly to know what your facing and where to go.
Yes. I think the secrecy of it all with the kids is in part contributing to keeping me stuck and attached. It will be a relief to have them know the truth.
Had a nice time at our dinner last night. Very pleasant evening. I’m relieved.
And, I looked terrific, and felt terrific.
Grace
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/11/19 03:23 AM
Grace, don't forget that God's plan is bigger than yours and H's too.
Maybe God knows that H is not going to come home and he has something bigger planned for you.
Maybe he has a plan to bring your H home that can only work if your H buys a house with OW and the whole thing with her crashes and burns. (Which it obviously will, whether it's now or years from now or somewhere in between, and whether or not you take him back.)
Your thoughts are not His thoughts.
It's ultimately not about uncertainty, but about the certainty that God's plan is what is best for you. I heard a sermon once about how we are sheep to the shepherd not because we are fluffy and cute and nature-wise but because we are to be that stupid as far as what is best for us! The average sheep will walk off a cliff if the shepherd leads him there. God wants us to be totally free of strategy and plan and "big picture." Just to keep walking and trusting him to guide our steps.
Instead of constantly looking for His will, to realize IT'S ALL HIS WILL. If we step outside his will, he'll call us back. If we won't listen, he'll use our mistakes to realize His will anyway.
I get what you are thinking/doing/feeling as far as doubts and feeling that you are tired of it. We are in a similar place though I have been at it much longer.
I think either you think H is in MLC and don't believe anything he says/does, or you take what he says/does at face value. You seem to be straddling the fence as far as that goes.
I am unclear as to why you are taking on the job of telling your kids about the OW in that way. Why don't you leave that for him to do? I mean, if they ask you about it, tell the truth. Or if it comes up with them, something that would cause you to lie if you didn't tell the truth about her, then say it simply and freely. Otherwise, why are you doing H's dirty work for him?
Maybe God knows that H is not going to come home and he has something bigger planned for you.
Maybe he has a plan to bring your H home that can only work if your H buys a house with OW and the whole thing with her crashes and burns. (Which it obviously will, whether it's now or years from now or somewhere in between, and whether or not you take him back.)
Your thoughts are not His thoughts.
It's ultimately not about uncertainty, but about the certainty that God's plan is what is best for you. I heard a sermon once about how we are sheep to the shepherd not because we are fluffy and cute and nature-wise but because we are to be that stupid as far as what is best for us! The average sheep will walk off a cliff if the shepherd leads him there. God wants us to be totally free of strategy and plan and "big picture." Just to keep walking and trusting him to guide our steps.
Instead of constantly looking for His will, to realize IT'S ALL HIS WILL. If we step outside his will, he'll call us back. If we won't listen, he'll use our mistakes to realize His will anyway.
I get what you are thinking/doing/feeling as far as doubts and feeling that you are tired of it. We are in a similar place though I have been at it much longer.
I think either you think H is in MLC and don't believe anything he says/does, or you take what he says/does at face value. You seem to be straddling the fence as far as that goes.
I am unclear as to why you are taking on the job of telling your kids about the OW in that way. Why don't you leave that for him to do? I mean, if they ask you about it, tell the truth. Or if it comes up with them, something that would cause you to lie if you didn't tell the truth about her, then say it simply and freely. Otherwise, why are you doing H's dirty work for him?
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/11/19 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by Gerda
Grace, don't forget that God's plan is bigger than yours and H's too……Your thoughts are not His thoughts.
Thanks for this reminder. I asked God this morning to give me a kick in the pants when I try to take control or doubt His plan. He just did. Through you, dear Gerda.
Originally Posted by Gerda
It's ultimately not about uncertainty, but about the certainty that God's plan is what is best for you.
I like this. My focus of uncertainty is all negative energy. This is all positive energy.
Originally Posted by Gerda
I think either you think H is in MLC and don't believe anything he says/does, or you take what he says/does at face value. You seem to be straddling the fence as far as that goes.
Definitely straddling the fence. He’s lied so long I wonder if he believes them now. But, his actions to contact mortgage lenders, realtors, etc. and his continuing R with OW are all things that can only be seen in one light, IMO. At face value. But in the end, none of it matters, I guess.
Originally Posted by Gerda
I am unclear as to why you are taking on the job of telling your kids about the OW in that way. Why don't you leave that for him to do? I mean, if they ask you about it, tell the truth. Or if it comes up with them, something that would cause you to lie if you didn't tell the truth about her, then say it simply and freely. Otherwise, why are you doing H's dirty work for him?
Boy is this timely. A friend said as much just last night when I called her for guidance. I was struggling whether to contact H to pin him down on his “decision”. She said he’s the one making all the plans. He’s the one that needs to face the music and tell people (me, kids) his decision. It’s his journey, his choices. I don’t want to do his dirty work. I will wait for a while and see how it plays out. But, the last thing I want is for the kids to think I was lying to them all this time. But, actually, I’m not the one living the lie, am I? H is.
Thanks for the insight Gerda.
Hope your weekend is peaceful.
Grace
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/16/19 04:25 PM
Journaling……
Kind of a rough week. My own fault. Phone records. But they don’t lie.
H is having lunch with the kids today. I want to text him “Are you going to share your new living arrangements with your girlfriend with the kids?” But I won’t.
I want to tell H that he is a coward for seeing me face to face, stating he doesn’t know what he will do, and then all along make plans to do what he’s already decided. But I won’t.
I want to tell H he’s a j***a*** for making backhanded apologies that aren’t really apologies but excuses. Stupid ones at that. But I won’t.
I want a real apology for all he’s done. And he’s done plenty. I don’t think I will ever get one.
I want to ask to meet to pin him down to say it to me face to face what he is planning. I know it’s useless. Besides. These are his plans. He should be the one informing those it will affect.
So many questions. Will he file for D? Should I file for D? Should I ask him to file for D? Is it best for no one to do it now? If I don’t, am I condoning H’s relationship with OW? Too many questions. I won’t be in a big rush. I have to let my emotions settle down.
I’m angry. I’m sad. I’m anxious.
But I also have plenty of times I’m happy, joyful. Content.
I have plans for happy hour with a girlfriend tonight.
Invited to dinner with a few gals at someone’s home tomorrow.
Meeting up with a close couple’s friend Sunday. Have the kids until Wednesday, then off to see my family out of state for 5 days.
I’ll come back to a new life potentially. Maybe not a new life, but different perspective. H will probably be moving out some things at the end of the month. I perhaps will insist he does.
Life in transition. I will try to embrace it. It’s useless to fight it.
Grace
Kind of a rough week. My own fault. Phone records. But they don’t lie.
H is having lunch with the kids today. I want to text him “Are you going to share your new living arrangements with your girlfriend with the kids?” But I won’t.
I want to tell H that he is a coward for seeing me face to face, stating he doesn’t know what he will do, and then all along make plans to do what he’s already decided. But I won’t.
I want to tell H he’s a j***a*** for making backhanded apologies that aren’t really apologies but excuses. Stupid ones at that. But I won’t.
I want a real apology for all he’s done. And he’s done plenty. I don’t think I will ever get one.
I want to ask to meet to pin him down to say it to me face to face what he is planning. I know it’s useless. Besides. These are his plans. He should be the one informing those it will affect.
So many questions. Will he file for D? Should I file for D? Should I ask him to file for D? Is it best for no one to do it now? If I don’t, am I condoning H’s relationship with OW? Too many questions. I won’t be in a big rush. I have to let my emotions settle down.
I’m angry. I’m sad. I’m anxious.
But I also have plenty of times I’m happy, joyful. Content.
I have plans for happy hour with a girlfriend tonight.
Invited to dinner with a few gals at someone’s home tomorrow.
Meeting up with a close couple’s friend Sunday. Have the kids until Wednesday, then off to see my family out of state for 5 days.
I’ll come back to a new life potentially. Maybe not a new life, but different perspective. H will probably be moving out some things at the end of the month. I perhaps will insist he does.
Life in transition. I will try to embrace it. It’s useless to fight it.
Grace
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/16/19 06:26 PM
Originally Posted by Grace21
Life in transition. I will try to embrace it.
A nice sharp sword. Good for you.
DnJ
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/17/19 01:06 AM
Grace, most of the time I feel like I am backsliding on the ol' LBS forward-journey, but one thing I have noticed in the past month or so is that I no longer ever think about what I want to say to my H. I keep reading posts by folks who are imagining what they want to say to the MLCer, especially some of the more active newbies, and I am able to see very clearly how totally pointless that is. Lately I had noticed that I even carry this realization to other relationships in my life -- e.g., an irrational customer. Maybe it is a form of detachment, but I almost never at this point think that I could say anything to my H that he would be able to hear or understand as it was intended, let alone as the truth.
So when I read your comments of what you would like to say to your H, I just want to give you a big hug.
That said, last night on my last night at my favorite place, on an island, I felt a calling from the Holy Spirit to go down to the beach at 2 am (I was still up) because there was a huge moon, and I wanted to see the ocean lit up in the moonlight. And when I got there, I had it out with God. I was literally kneeling on the sand all lit up silver, yelling at God that everything had gone wrong and i just cried and yelled about everything that has happening and is happening and how I did not want any of the possible futures I imagined could happen, and that I did not want any of this to keep happening to my children or affecting them in the way that it is. It was kind of like Jacob wrestling with the angel except that there was no conclusion, no new name and promised future beckoning, just me turning back still crying, and the moon disappearing behind an endless black cloud. But I definitely felt God's presence. Just inscrutably.
Point is, I am struggling, believe me, but I am glad to tell you that a day will come when you won't picture what you would like to say to H anymore.
So when I read your comments of what you would like to say to your H, I just want to give you a big hug.
That said, last night on my last night at my favorite place, on an island, I felt a calling from the Holy Spirit to go down to the beach at 2 am (I was still up) because there was a huge moon, and I wanted to see the ocean lit up in the moonlight. And when I got there, I had it out with God. I was literally kneeling on the sand all lit up silver, yelling at God that everything had gone wrong and i just cried and yelled about everything that has happening and is happening and how I did not want any of the possible futures I imagined could happen, and that I did not want any of this to keep happening to my children or affecting them in the way that it is. It was kind of like Jacob wrestling with the angel except that there was no conclusion, no new name and promised future beckoning, just me turning back still crying, and the moon disappearing behind an endless black cloud. But I definitely felt God's presence. Just inscrutably.
Point is, I am struggling, believe me, but I am glad to tell you that a day will come when you won't picture what you would like to say to H anymore.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/17/19 09:28 AM
Well, it’s time for me to retain an attorney.
H liquidated part of our only joint asset that was cash ready. It’s been transferred to a bank. I can only assume that’s his half of a place he’s buying with OW. Her home is under contract. She will have money soon. But of course nothing can be assumed. He won’t return my phone call. I only left 1 message. It was an impulse. When (if) he calls back, I won’t pick up. I don’t think he will call back, though.
He’s an idiot. I don’t know if I should tell the kids or let this play out. They will immediately text him, I’m sure. I don’t even know all the facts, just that a good chunk of change has been transferred without my consent (although he doesn’t need it – I confirmed that with my financial advisor). It’s possible he’s not buying it with OW because he has an annuity too he can use (inheritance).
In any event, a message is going to my attorney today, and she will be retained.
H liquidated part of our only joint asset that was cash ready. It’s been transferred to a bank. I can only assume that’s his half of a place he’s buying with OW. Her home is under contract. She will have money soon. But of course nothing can be assumed. He won’t return my phone call. I only left 1 message. It was an impulse. When (if) he calls back, I won’t pick up. I don’t think he will call back, though.
He’s an idiot. I don’t know if I should tell the kids or let this play out. They will immediately text him, I’m sure. I don’t even know all the facts, just that a good chunk of change has been transferred without my consent (although he doesn’t need it – I confirmed that with my financial advisor). It’s possible he’s not buying it with OW because he has an annuity too he can use (inheritance).
In any event, a message is going to my attorney today, and she will be retained.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/17/19 01:47 PM
Grace, I am so sorry.
i sometimes wonder if God allows these horrible abuses of our H's vow to protect us so that we will surrender the marriage to Him. It's weird how that financial stuff hit me harder than the affairs and all the rest of it. It wasn't until my H started down the path of a vicious divorce and tried to destroy me financially that I realized there was truly nothing I could do.
After a long spiral, I also realized that I did not have to know what was going to happen to me as a woman, and that I could also pray that God would send me a man to love -- it might be my H or it might be someone else, God's ways are inscrutable, and his mercy is infinite, as Father Arseny says!
(((Grace)))))
My advice from the mountain -- Do you what you have to do with clarity and truth, but remember that this is all the World. Don't lose your awareness that the Spirit is where we truly live, don't let bitterness take hold of you even as you protect yourself and your kids. And I think you are spot on, do not talk to H about it. Deflect his financial blows but don't fall into throwing punches, you will be mightily tempted once the court of law comes into your marriage!
i sometimes wonder if God allows these horrible abuses of our H's vow to protect us so that we will surrender the marriage to Him. It's weird how that financial stuff hit me harder than the affairs and all the rest of it. It wasn't until my H started down the path of a vicious divorce and tried to destroy me financially that I realized there was truly nothing I could do.
After a long spiral, I also realized that I did not have to know what was going to happen to me as a woman, and that I could also pray that God would send me a man to love -- it might be my H or it might be someone else, God's ways are inscrutable, and his mercy is infinite, as Father Arseny says!
(((Grace)))))
My advice from the mountain -- Do you what you have to do with clarity and truth, but remember that this is all the World. Don't lose your awareness that the Spirit is where we truly live, don't let bitterness take hold of you even as you protect yourself and your kids. And I think you are spot on, do not talk to H about it. Deflect his financial blows but don't fall into throwing punches, you will be mightily tempted once the court of law comes into your marriage!
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/17/19 02:12 PM
Thanks Gerda. I'm just in protection mode. H is so secretive, but I've got enough to go on. I've got choice words for my financial advisor on Monday, though. Totally unethical IMO. I will not get ugly, or initiate ugliness. I plan to pray for guidance, and let my attorney handle it.
I am praying about discussing things with the kids. I only really know for sure that H isn't coming home. This is what I might say, and then just let them ask any questions. It will happen today.
I understand exactly what you are saying about how the affairs affect you vs. the financial hits.
I'm also starting to doubt anything he said about shame, guilt, and depression. Maybe he is just a person with bad character. I'll probably never know for sure.
Grace
I am praying about discussing things with the kids. I only really know for sure that H isn't coming home. This is what I might say, and then just let them ask any questions. It will happen today.
I understand exactly what you are saying about how the affairs affect you vs. the financial hits.
I'm also starting to doubt anything he said about shame, guilt, and depression. Maybe he is just a person with bad character. I'll probably never know for sure.
Grace
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/17/19 03:00 PM
After a chat with a trusted friend, I've decided not to say anything to the kids today. I need to look at this now as a business deal, and I don't want to tip my hand. They of course would text/call H right away, and things could get ugly. I will wait to speak with my attorney before I do anything.
As you can see, I'm all over the place. But, I think I now have a plan, and it feels good.
Life is still good.
Grace
As you can see, I'm all over the place. But, I think I now have a plan, and it feels good.
Life is still good.
Grace
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/17/19 03:13 PM
Grace, I don't know what to say, but I wanted to say something-yours is one of the threads I've been following to try to gain some perspective on my sitch. I'm just sorry that he had to pull this on you. But following your threads, you seem to be getting stronger and stronger with each page I've read-and I think your plan is a good one-and really what you need to do to protect yourself.
Good luck
Good luck
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/17/19 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by Grace21
I need to look at this now as a business deal, and I don't want to tip my hand.
(((Grace)))
Yep. That’s the needed and correct view. Business like. Keeps emotions out if it, less spinning. However, the bigger benefit is compassion and the better vs bitter path you’re on. No emotions means no dragging you down and fighting in the mud. Just business.
DnJ
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/18/19 02:26 AM
Originally Posted by Grace21
I'm also starting to doubt anything he said about shame, guilt, and depression. Maybe he is just a person with bad character. I'll probably never know for sure.
I agree with your biz deal approach, I am trying to do the same. And of course I as usual agree with DnJ but I would like to inject a Gerda-ism into your heart as you roll up your business sleeves. What you said here about doubting his guilt, shame, depression -- hey, do not doubt the power of the Holy Spirit! OF COURSE he feels those things. He can't not! The guilt is a direct line to the Holy Spirit, whether he believes or not! But he is not going to listen to those promptings now. We don't know when, or if he ever will. But we know the promptings are real. Don't doubt that those feelings are eating away at him and are far more real than the silly and often pathetic things he is trying to do to drown them out and from which you (you and me both!) sadly have to protect yourself.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/18/19 11:27 PM
Barb, DnJ, and Gerda - thanks for your support. I truly don't know where I would be without this forum to vent, journal, or to get advice.
DnJ - My emotions are settling quite a bit, but my stomach is in knots a lot, and I have no appetite. Losing some weight too. It's been tough, I won't lie. I'm having thoughts of hurting and embarrassing H (I've got plenty of ammo), but of course I won't. But, I see your point, and I can do this as a business deal. First up, contacting my financial advisor tomorrow. I won't tell him this now, but he will be losing my business.
Barb - Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad my thoughts are helpful to you. I will follow you more closely too.
Gerda - Thanks for the reminder that God is still watching and working. I needed that reminder today.
*****************
I was greeter at church today with another woman I met once at the women's Christmas party. We could not stop talking. It was great. Anyway, my faith journey came up, and whether I was married. I gave her a brief summary of recent events. She said "Wow. You would never guess you are going through something like that. You are so joyful!".
I told her that yes, I was, and my Faith journey these past months has made me that way. She is not the first person that has said something similar to me. No matter what events are in store for me in the coming days, weeks, months, I am determined to continue to let the love of Christ shine.
God is good.
Grace
DnJ - My emotions are settling quite a bit, but my stomach is in knots a lot, and I have no appetite. Losing some weight too. It's been tough, I won't lie. I'm having thoughts of hurting and embarrassing H (I've got plenty of ammo), but of course I won't. But, I see your point, and I can do this as a business deal. First up, contacting my financial advisor tomorrow. I won't tell him this now, but he will be losing my business.
Barb - Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad my thoughts are helpful to you. I will follow you more closely too.
Gerda - Thanks for the reminder that God is still watching and working. I needed that reminder today.
*****************
I was greeter at church today with another woman I met once at the women's Christmas party. We could not stop talking. It was great. Anyway, my faith journey came up, and whether I was married. I gave her a brief summary of recent events. She said "Wow. You would never guess you are going through something like that. You are so joyful!".
I told her that yes, I was, and my Faith journey these past months has made me that way. She is not the first person that has said something similar to me. No matter what events are in store for me in the coming days, weeks, months, I am determined to continue to let the love of Christ shine.
God is good.
Grace
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/19/19 12:50 AM
The faith journey....this is something I'm contemplating. I haven't been to church in, well, forever. But I was married in the church (Anglican) and those vows meant something to me.
I had a strange experience about 3 weeks ago, and haven't actually told many people. (and now here I am, posting on a bulletin board!) I was laying in bed, reading and for once, not thinking about H. I felt a warm, soothing glow come over me, and a voice in my head kept saying "he's coming back" over and over. I felt so contented and safe, I just kind of said "oh, okay then" and went to sleep.
This actually got me thinking about God again, and I had almost convinced myself he didn't exist in the past few years.
So thank you Grace and Gerda, for bringing up faith. I am thinking he works in mysterious ways.
I had a strange experience about 3 weeks ago, and haven't actually told many people. (and now here I am, posting on a bulletin board!) I was laying in bed, reading and for once, not thinking about H. I felt a warm, soothing glow come over me, and a voice in my head kept saying "he's coming back" over and over. I felt so contented and safe, I just kind of said "oh, okay then" and went to sleep.
This actually got me thinking about God again, and I had almost convinced myself he didn't exist in the past few years.
So thank you Grace and Gerda, for bringing up faith. I am thinking he works in mysterious ways.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/19/19 02:21 AM
Hello Grace
I’m sorry about the loss of appetite and the knotted stomach; it’s a tough slog. All pains along the path to acceptance; perfectly normal and perfectly healthy.
You seem to gravitate towards understanding, something I think is key to letting go and accepting. Looking for the why of things. To me you’re removing another layer of denial, with that come a bit of shock and depression. Again very normal, and so very healing. Walk through and experience the pain and emotions, and continue to let them wash over you.
I am very please, and proud of you, to see that you are not firing all that ammo at H. Hurting and embarrassing him, might feel good for a little while - and that is a pretty small might, and very short lived. The regret from doing such a thing is another item you would have to accept and forgive yourself for later, and you do not need those self placed boulders in your path.
Besides, along with choosing better instead of bitter, which is so much for you, H will most likely be more amicable when negotiating. I know, icky feeling. Intellectual car - perform this business deal ethically and intelligently, you will be grateful you did.
As you know, this will pass, and your appetite will return in time. Speaking of hurting tummies - mine is a bit upset. While mowing grass today, every time I rode by the apple trees I picked and ate one the juicy fresh apples. After nine of them, I felt a little icky, and had to stop eating. Oh, but they were sooo good. I did think of you, as I gorged myself, both as apple loving friend and nurse with admonishing wagging of her finger. An apple a day is good - nine not so much. I fear these will pass too.
DnJ
I’m sorry about the loss of appetite and the knotted stomach; it’s a tough slog. All pains along the path to acceptance; perfectly normal and perfectly healthy.
You seem to gravitate towards understanding, something I think is key to letting go and accepting. Looking for the why of things. To me you’re removing another layer of denial, with that come a bit of shock and depression. Again very normal, and so very healing. Walk through and experience the pain and emotions, and continue to let them wash over you.
I am very please, and proud of you, to see that you are not firing all that ammo at H. Hurting and embarrassing him, might feel good for a little while - and that is a pretty small might, and very short lived. The regret from doing such a thing is another item you would have to accept and forgive yourself for later, and you do not need those self placed boulders in your path.
Besides, along with choosing better instead of bitter, which is so much for you, H will most likely be more amicable when negotiating. I know, icky feeling. Intellectual car - perform this business deal ethically and intelligently, you will be grateful you did.
As you know, this will pass, and your appetite will return in time. Speaking of hurting tummies - mine is a bit upset. While mowing grass today, every time I rode by the apple trees I picked and ate one the juicy fresh apples. After nine of them, I felt a little icky, and had to stop eating. Oh, but they were sooo good. I did think of you, as I gorged myself, both as apple loving friend and nurse with admonishing wagging of her finger. An apple a day is good - nine not so much.
I fear these will pass too.DnJ
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/19/19 04:26 AM
(((GRACE))). So sorry my friend. Do what you need to do to protect yourself and your kids. DnJ gives you great advice on taking the high road and making the dealings as amicable as possible. I did this and the financial hit was as minimal as it could be. The hit to the heart...that’s another matter. Time, space and, as DnJ said, choosing better over bitter (do darn tough sometimes!!), will help. Sending you lots of love and healing energy across the miles!! xo
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/20/19 03:56 AM
Emotional day.
Spoke with H. Asked him about his imminent purchase of condo with OW. He blamed, deflected, accused. It was not pretty. But, bottom line. He is using marital assets to buy a place with her. He's an idiot. He couldn't even say it. He said "She is buying a place, and I am contributing". Again, he's an idiot.
After I called him, he immediately sent two urgent messages to our financial advisory asking if I called him. Financial advisor called me and told me. Short story is: I told him to not get drawn into our drama.
Kids were told about H's purchase and OW. Tough, tough, tough night. Hatred. Accusations of H being a coward (true). Liar. (true). Emotional unavailable. (true). Tears from D20 lasting over an hour. Broken hearts. D20 is desperate for an emotional connection from her dad. He is giving it elsewhere. Ouch.
I'm glad it's out though. H actually said to me there is no reason we can't continue to go on as we are. That he plans to just take his normal amount since October. He does not have plans to file for D. "Lot's of people live like this". He asked me if I wanted one. I said I didn't know what I was going to do.
He's an idiot.
I told him I never signed up for an open marriage. I don't live like this.
I will speak with my attorney tomorrow. I don't plan to file for D today. I will give it time for emotions to settle.
But, it's coming.
There was lots, lots more said between H and I. Deflection, blame, and more blame (from him on me, of course). And veiled threats how he is paying for everything.
The devil has a good hold on H.
I'll continue to pray for him, while protecting my family. God would want me to protect my family.
Grace
Spoke with H. Asked him about his imminent purchase of condo with OW. He blamed, deflected, accused. It was not pretty. But, bottom line. He is using marital assets to buy a place with her. He's an idiot. He couldn't even say it. He said "She is buying a place, and I am contributing". Again, he's an idiot.
After I called him, he immediately sent two urgent messages to our financial advisory asking if I called him. Financial advisor called me and told me. Short story is: I told him to not get drawn into our drama.
Kids were told about H's purchase and OW. Tough, tough, tough night. Hatred. Accusations of H being a coward (true). Liar. (true). Emotional unavailable. (true). Tears from D20 lasting over an hour. Broken hearts. D20 is desperate for an emotional connection from her dad. He is giving it elsewhere. Ouch.
I'm glad it's out though. H actually said to me there is no reason we can't continue to go on as we are. That he plans to just take his normal amount since October. He does not have plans to file for D. "Lot's of people live like this". He asked me if I wanted one. I said I didn't know what I was going to do.
He's an idiot.
I told him I never signed up for an open marriage. I don't live like this.
I will speak with my attorney tomorrow. I don't plan to file for D today. I will give it time for emotions to settle.
But, it's coming.
There was lots, lots more said between H and I. Deflection, blame, and more blame (from him on me, of course). And veiled threats how he is paying for everything.
The devil has a good hold on H.
I'll continue to pray for him, while protecting my family. God would want me to protect my family.
Grace
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/20/19 11:16 AM
Grace
H is an idiot.
He is not thinking, just reacting to his emotions. And yes, the Devil has a strong hold on him.
It’s very evident how reason, begging, pleading, logic, children, breaking of family - nothing can dissuade him. He is blind, and completely ensnared.
I 100% agree. You didn’t have an open marriage before, you don’t want one now.
I am glad the kids know. Their reaction is normal and healthy. It’s going to be a rough bit for them - be their rock and guide them. Better not bitter, compassion - that is all for you and them. It is a path that has huge dividends.
It is time to get a more formal financial protection and arrangement in place. You see how easily H justified his actions; what’s he going to do next? This will soothe him for a while, but his demons are not sated. He is driven to run.
Let your emotions settle, consider your actions, consider your reason. You’ve done loads of inner work, and have been preparing for multiple different scenarios. H finally showing his hand, gives you a direction, and as odd as it will seem, some more peace.
Look after yourself and your wonderful grown children.
DnJ
H is an idiot.
He is not thinking, just reacting to his emotions. And yes, the Devil has a strong hold on him.
It’s very evident how reason, begging, pleading, logic, children, breaking of family - nothing can dissuade him. He is blind, and completely ensnared.
I 100% agree. You didn’t have an open marriage before, you don’t want one now.
I am glad the kids know. Their reaction is normal and healthy. It’s going to be a rough bit for them - be their rock and guide them. Better not bitter, compassion - that is all for you and them. It is a path that has huge dividends.
It is time to get a more formal financial protection and arrangement in place. You see how easily H justified his actions; what’s he going to do next? This will soothe him for a while, but his demons are not sated. He is driven to run.
Let your emotions settle, consider your actions, consider your reason. You’ve done loads of inner work, and have been preparing for multiple different scenarios. H finally showing his hand, gives you a direction, and as odd as it will seem, some more peace.
Look after yourself and your wonderful grown children.
DnJ
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/20/19 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by DnJ
It is time to get a more formal financial protection and arrangement in place. You see how easily H justified his actions; what’s he going to do next? This will soothe him for a while, but his demons are not sated. He is driven to run.
I agree I need to do this My attorney never contacted me today, but I will reach out to her tomorrow or Thursday when the kids are back at school. Hard to get privacy these days for phone calls!
One of the questions I need to ask is how to protect myself financially when we are in a state with no legal separation. I am a bit nervous about this, as he could change his paycheck to another bank at any time (in spite of him saying he doesn't plan to do this). Believe nothing......I do have other funds and won't be kicked out of the house, but I would not want to use them if possible (although H could care less, since he took our a ton for his new pad). Anyway - strategy I need to discuss with my A.
Today was better. D20 blocked H from her phone and facebook. She said she is relieved she doesn't have to be the adult in their relationship anymore. Ouch. I listen and validate. S22 has had some e-mail exchangse with H. He read me a few. H said that he told him he would inform them of any change and planned to do so. (Lie). He said that our marriage was none of his concern, stuff like that. He is being ridiculous. I just listened. S22 is gullible, so we'll see if he gets over this fast based on lies. I continue to be the rock for the kids, and polite to H when I have to interact. I had to withdraw $1,200 from our bank account today for college expenses for the kids. I sent a bring message to H informing him I did so. (I didn't want him to think I was taking $ to hide). He said he didn't need his September $ for a while anyway. All business.
After I get the kids to school tomorrow, I get on plane to spend some time with my family. Came exactly at the right time.
God is good.
Life is good.
Grace
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/21/19 01:03 AM
Grace - so sorry. They really do make irrational decisions.
Personally, the first question to your lawyer should be: can I take my 1/2 of all assets and put them under my name only? If you can, do it and take back the money he withdrew for house w/OW. Let him fight for this in court. If it is legal for you to do it, don’t hesitate. This protects you and your kids and saves you the worry of wondering if he is going to to buy a joint boat or take trips with her.
Maybe there is some sort of bank freeze that can be put in place but top choice is take your 1/2. If he wants to blow through his 1/2 that’s on him.
I suspect at times he realizes the impact the D will have on his finances so he wants to cake eat. He keeps you hoping things will be better while he lives off joint assets. Mine wanted us to keep pooping joint money, for him to manage it all, pay 1/2 his medical bills and part of his life insurance policy. Uh, no thanks! He is still griping about how much he has to pay me every month!
Once it game time for the d settlement he wrote in that my support would end automatically if O moved in with someone! Hah! That’s not even legal. As my lawyer said, seems he did not understand how d works.
Get on the offensive financially. If it gets redistributed by a judge then fine. But at least you are protected. No judge is going to like him spending joint assets on a place with OW. That comes out of his share.
Personally, the first question to your lawyer should be: can I take my 1/2 of all assets and put them under my name only? If you can, do it and take back the money he withdrew for house w/OW. Let him fight for this in court. If it is legal for you to do it, don’t hesitate. This protects you and your kids and saves you the worry of wondering if he is going to to buy a joint boat or take trips with her.
Maybe there is some sort of bank freeze that can be put in place but top choice is take your 1/2. If he wants to blow through his 1/2 that’s on him.
I suspect at times he realizes the impact the D will have on his finances so he wants to cake eat. He keeps you hoping things will be better while he lives off joint assets. Mine wanted us to keep pooping joint money, for him to manage it all, pay 1/2 his medical bills and part of his life insurance policy. Uh, no thanks! He is still griping about how much he has to pay me every month!
Once it game time for the d settlement he wrote in that my support would end automatically if O moved in with someone! Hah! That’s not even legal. As my lawyer said, seems he did not understand how d works.
Get on the offensive financially. If it gets redistributed by a judge then fine. But at least you are protected. No judge is going to like him spending joint assets on a place with OW. That comes out of his share.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/21/19 03:24 AM
Hi Grace
I agree with HaWho. See what options you can exercise regarding funds.
You’re doing good being open with your kids. Keep being their rock. Strong, sane, and stable.
DnJ
I agree with HaWho. See what options you can exercise regarding funds.
You’re doing good being open with your kids. Keep being their rock. Strong, sane, and stable.
DnJ
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/21/19 12:58 PM
I agree w/HaWho 100%. You need to get 1/2 of those assets moved out of the joint account and placed in an account of your own...you might even want to consider a different bank or credit union. As for what he withdrew for the house w/the ow, that money should now be divided in half since it came from joint assets.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/22/19 12:23 AM
Kids are safely back at school. I was worried that less than 2 days would not be enough time to process all that’s occurred. But, they see to be anxious to get back to their routine, and were up-beat about being back. Had a long convo with each of them individually last night. S22 yelled and raged, and had lots of demanding questions. He called the OW a whore, and said he will never meet her. He wanted to know if I knew who she was. I was truthful, but refused to give the name. I said that was for his dad to do. It was a good convo, though.
D20 heard the yelling, and she broke down crying. I spent individual time with her. She cried for a while and I held her. We then had a really good convo. I shared a bit about my journey, and self-reflection over these months. I apologized to her about my controlling/fix-it nature while she was growing up. She accepted the apology. We talked about developing close personal relationships with friends and family by expressing authentic feelings. She said a few very deep observations about her dad. Quite profound, actually. We talked a bit about H’s inability to share his real self.
I shared with both of them that 2 random people recently told me that I seem joyful and happy. That it just shows on me. I told them that in fact I do feel that way. They both told me they could see the change in me over these months. It was wonderful to talk with both of them in a way I really never did before. We have turned the corner, I think, into a closer relationship. As an aside, S22 never give me “real” hugs. He barely touches me. He has mild Asperger’s. Well, after I dropped them off at college, and saying goodbye, he gave me a warm, full on hug for the first time I can remember. I almost cried.
It’s sad H may never experience moments like that.
I am looking for a new attorney. My other one was not responsive, and she is not local 100% of the time. I will interview 2 early next week or on the phone this week and retain one soon. First question will be the transfer of equal amount of the money he already took into my own investment account. After what happened last week, our financial advisor will surely tell him, but I’ll just defer to my attorney.
I don’t know when I will file, but I sense it will get ugly when I do. OW has her claws in good, and she will want to get her hands on all she can. She has no real job. And she is seeing $$$.
But, God has prepared me for battle. He has placed people in my life that offer me the type of support I need at any time – financial advisor, realtor, and psychologist. All very close friends.
God kept telling me to wait. For a long time. I don’t hear those instructions any longer. I know difficult times, and maybe even horrible times, are coming. But my armor is strong.
I feel at peace. The nagging anxiety seems to be at bay. All my friends tell me I sound calm. “Good”.
And I think I am.
Life if good.
Grace
D20 heard the yelling, and she broke down crying. I spent individual time with her. She cried for a while and I held her. We then had a really good convo. I shared a bit about my journey, and self-reflection over these months. I apologized to her about my controlling/fix-it nature while she was growing up. She accepted the apology. We talked about developing close personal relationships with friends and family by expressing authentic feelings. She said a few very deep observations about her dad. Quite profound, actually. We talked a bit about H’s inability to share his real self.
I shared with both of them that 2 random people recently told me that I seem joyful and happy. That it just shows on me. I told them that in fact I do feel that way. They both told me they could see the change in me over these months. It was wonderful to talk with both of them in a way I really never did before. We have turned the corner, I think, into a closer relationship. As an aside, S22 never give me “real” hugs. He barely touches me. He has mild Asperger’s. Well, after I dropped them off at college, and saying goodbye, he gave me a warm, full on hug for the first time I can remember. I almost cried.
It’s sad H may never experience moments like that.
I am looking for a new attorney. My other one was not responsive, and she is not local 100% of the time. I will interview 2 early next week or on the phone this week and retain one soon. First question will be the transfer of equal amount of the money he already took into my own investment account. After what happened last week, our financial advisor will surely tell him, but I’ll just defer to my attorney.
I don’t know when I will file, but I sense it will get ugly when I do. OW has her claws in good, and she will want to get her hands on all she can. She has no real job. And she is seeing $$$.
But, God has prepared me for battle. He has placed people in my life that offer me the type of support I need at any time – financial advisor, realtor, and psychologist. All very close friends.
God kept telling me to wait. For a long time. I don’t hear those instructions any longer. I know difficult times, and maybe even horrible times, are coming. But my armor is strong.
I feel at peace. The nagging anxiety seems to be at bay. All my friends tell me I sound calm. “Good”.
And I think I am.
Life if good.
Grace
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/22/19 01:15 AM
I don't think I would wait until next week. I would take 1/2 the joint accounts plus 1/2 the amount that he put into the house with the OW. Transfer it to an account only in your name then notify him. Tell him you are just keeping your share safe until you can speak to an attorney.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/22/19 01:24 AM
I ditto KML. Be on the offensive by protecting what you do have. It is your share. He bought a house with another woman using your money! Who knows what else is coming? A new car for her? Jewelry? It costs a lot of money in fees to go after your share once he takes it.
Be proactive.
Be proactive.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/22/19 03:11 AM
Grace, I follow you but don't really chat much. I'm feeling for you these days.
But I'm so glad you're feeling strong and I just want you to know there's yet another person in the world that is thinking of you, and proud of you and how you are handling every step of this journey. I really admire your self reflection and your desire to really sit back and consider before taking decisive action.
Put your armor on, and decorate it with flowers.
But I'm so glad you're feeling strong and I just want you to know there's yet another person in the world that is thinking of you, and proud of you and how you are handling every step of this journey. I really admire your self reflection and your desire to really sit back and consider before taking decisive action.
Put your armor on, and decorate it with flowers.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/22/19 03:13 AM
Grace
I agree with job, kml, and HaWho. Be proactive and protect your assets.
There are many blessings to be discovered within this horrible mess; it is an incredible opportunity for growth. A much stronger bond with one’s children is one of them. I’ve had those sincere “real” hugs, and it does almost bring one to tears.
It is wonderful to hear that both S and D are started down good paths. It was really nice that they could see your changes over the months. You are a great role model.
Kind of weird to find peace within all this, isn’t it?
Keep closing the cupboard door gently and peacefully, just enough force to close it and not slam it. Funny, how that becomes a way of life.
DnJ
I agree with job, kml, and HaWho. Be proactive and protect your assets.
There are many blessings to be discovered within this horrible mess; it is an incredible opportunity for growth. A much stronger bond with one’s children is one of them. I’ve had those sincere “real” hugs, and it does almost bring one to tears.
It is wonderful to hear that both S and D are started down good paths. It was really nice that they could see your changes over the months. You are a great role model.
Kind of weird to find peace within all this, isn’t it?
Keep closing the cupboard door gently and peacefully, just enough force to close it and not slam it.
Funny, how that becomes a way of life.DnJ
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/22/19 12:25 PM
Grace,
Take time today and move your half of the assets today. You can notify him after you have done so. Be sure to keep a copy of the text/email message for your new lawyer.
If he attempts to engage w/you over the withdrawal, don't engage. Allow him to stew in his own juices.
Please do not wait. MLCers are known for doing unhanded stuff and he may be one of those that will wipe you out entirely and not tell you and you will find out when you write a check.
Take time today and move your half of the assets today. You can notify him after you have done so. Be sure to keep a copy of the text/email message for your new lawyer.
If he attempts to engage w/you over the withdrawal, don't engage. Allow him to stew in his own juices.
Please do not wait. MLCers are known for doing unhanded stuff and he may be one of those that will wipe you out entirely and not tell you and you will find out when you write a check.
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/22/19 01:24 PM
yes- I agree
take your assets right away
get everything safety in your name and off any cards
The Mlcer will take, steal, charge cards, come to the house and take important papers ect..
with no concern at all for you or his kids
It will be a charged time from now until D is final and all is over
They think we will give them everything because they know we love them-
stand tall protect yourself and your kids because he wont be able to
take your assets right away
get everything safety in your name and off any cards
The Mlcer will take, steal, charge cards, come to the house and take important papers ect..
with no concern at all for you or his kids
It will be a charged time from now until D is final and all is over
They think we will give them everything because they know we love them-
stand tall protect yourself and your kids because he wont be able to
Re: Fine tuning my inner Me - 08/22/19 03:21 PM