Hello all..........It’s been a while since I’ve posted, but I have been reading/keeping up pretty consistently on everyone’s threads. I’ve been having some thoughts recently and thought I would reach out for some advice.
To catch everyone up on my sitch ....... BD was November 2015. Kicked him out the day I found out. I filed for divorce May 2016, but he never signed the papers. We ended up going to an infidelity retreat in June 2016. Things were good for about six weeks and then he panicked and left. Did not really speak with him or have much contact with him until February 2017 when I decided to sell our home. During that time he was very helpful with trying to get the home ready.
We actually reconnected and decided to work on things because he had been to a self help forum known as Landmark Forum and he knew there was things that he needed to make better between the two of us. We saw each other pretty regularly up until November 2017 when he asked me to move in with him in his new place. Things were going well for a couple months and then around February 2018 he said he didn’t know if he could continue to move forward with things between the two of us because I did not want to have a relationship with his parents. They had always been a big issue in our marriage because even though he was a grown man he still couldn’t make a decision without consulting with them first.
I moved into the spare room around that time and basically stayed there until I moved out in November 2018. Unfortunately one of our two dogs got sick rather quickly and passed away in November 2018. H did not handle this well at all! She was diagnosed with cancer, and we had decided the best thing would be to put her to sleep. He had a very difficult time with the news and unfortunately he held onto her longer than what was probably in her best interest and in my eyes she may have suffered when she didn’t need to. We eventually had to put her to sleep.
The very next day after we put her to sleep, he said he was having a difficult time working on himself with me being in the house so he asked me to leave. He had been going to see and IC weekly. So I packed my things and I took our remaining dog with me and moved into a hotel for six weeks. I ended up finding a place to stay and that is where me and my dog are currently living.
H and I do not speak. We have probably had two conversations on the telephone and a handful of text messages, which usually involve the dog, since I moved out.
I don’t really know much about his life, but I do know he continues to spend money he really doesn’t have. As part of an agreement we made when I first found out about his cheating, I would keep him on my health insurance plan and he pays my car insurance and my cell phone bill. I still have access to his banking account so I am able to see how much money he has, and how much he has racked up on his credit card.
I’ve tried to GAL as best as I can, probably could do better. I’ve taken several trips with the dogs, and on my own. Spent time with my family. Working way too much though!!
I found myself wondering when is it time to give up? We don’t have a relationship, we don’t communicate, the only thing we share is the same last name. I told him the last time I spoke with him that I didn’t deserve to be treated how he was treating me and that moving forward I would not be contacting him any further. He reached out to me after that to spend time with the dog. He kept him for a couple days, and when I picked him up, he sent me a very long text message thanking me for letting him spend time with him and said that he would like to do that regularly if it was OK with me. He has not reached out since that time and that was the end of January. I have since learned that he has spent over $1000 to get a new puppy.
I found myself needing to come here because I remember so many times reading how important it was to come to the board first and asked for opinions or advice before doing something. And, since I felt like I was going to either pick up the phone and call him or send him a nasty email, and I didn’t want to do that, I we came here instead.
I’m looking for advice, opinions, 2x4s or whatever anyone thinks will help.
SKM
SKM,
Can't remember if you've been back since I changed my username. Hope you remember who this is. You've asked for 2x4s so here goes. I think you've always had a lot of anger that you were never able to set aside (parents, spending, usual stuff). I think that "reconnection" was doomed from the beginning, and that you couldn't let go of the anger toward his parents was a big red flag. They are his parents. I realize that you think they are too involved. But they are his parents. I think it is best that you have moved out again.
There is a type of couples counseling called discernment counseling, that I think is designed to help people who are ambivalent about divorce, which you seem to be. I think you should find a counselor who does this kind of work, and go yourself and see if you can resolve why it is that you are unable to let go, when you weren't able to put in the crappy work of taking one of these people back (reading Gordie or BlueWave's threads would be good for you on this point). Maybe you can come to your own conclusion of whether there is a world in which you want to be married to him.
I think you must still have feelings for him, but if you can't get past the anger or the need to mother/judge him, then it is probably not a workable thing. I don't think these people come back fully cooked and better than ever.
You've been through a lot. You don't have to take this guy back. Try to find out what YOU want and if it is him, try to find some help on developing some ways to deal with your anger.
One art, thanks for the response.
There is no question that I have anger issues when it comes to everything that has been going on for the last 3+ years. I’ve been working on that one day at a time. I have days when I deal with it better than others.
During the last conversation with H, I let him know that I would not be the one who files for divorce. He knew from the very beginning that I did not want a divorce. I was willing to work on things, those things also included things within myself, not just with the marriage.
I can see were someone would think I was ambivalent in regard to divorce.... but i’m not sure that that is a bad thing? During the last conversation H and I had he mentioned to me that he had gone to see a divorce lawyer, but did not have plans to file for divorce. He stated that he “was just seeing what his options were. “
It may seem that I don’t want my H to have a relationship with his parents but like you said those are his parents, and I don’t expect him to choose me over them. I don’t want his parents to be an issue, but in my mind, when things were going well between the two of us H would have a way of bringing up the subject of the strained relationship. It was like he was unable to move forward unless that part was resolved first.I wanted us to focus on making the two of us stronger and then tackling the parent issue at a later time.
I have read BluWave and Gordie’s thread, and admire them for their patience, good heart and ability to be able see things from a different perspective.
hello skm,
I'm sorry you are feeling frustrated and feel you may do something you later regret. It is wise and healthy to bounce your thoughts around here amongst your peers, before taking action.
Looking back on my own situation and others I have followed in that time, I have learned that often when we FEEL that we MUST do something, that it is often not the right thing to do. Often it is fuelled by negative emotions/feelings that we do not control and decisions taken in that mindframe are often a reaction as opposed to a decision congruent with your inner self.
Ye are separated already, so I wonder what is it you cannot do now that you need to give up on him to do. Apart from meeting someone else (which you do not seem near ready for), you can live the life you want to live. Concentrate on that. Take a long look at how you are living and concentrate on taking the steps needed to make it AWESOME.
If you manage that, you are in a perfect position whether reconciliation happens or not. If H wants to D (or you decide to yourself), you have already a great life in place so you can continue to thrive. On the other hand you thriving now could help ye reconnect as H may see you are not just waiting around for his royal decision. Plus an active happier you is more attractive, so indirectly could influence him.
However I would be sure that your finances are well in order to not be affected by his overspending. Go down the legal front if necessary.
As for your stance on D, I believe maybe henceforth, you should remain silent (to H) on being against it and wanting to work on M. Maybe even offhandedly state being open to it or maybe it being for the best, BUT don't push it or initiate it. Let him do the work. He has already seen someone and doesn't seem convinced it is the way to go. Unfortunately that doesn't mean he is reconsidering, but for whatever his reason he isn't ready to D.
You can always come back and rethink this yourself. It is often said here that if you ask the question, if it is time to D/give up, you are not there yet. That makes sense to me. I believe when it is time, you will know.
Finally a brief word about the issue with his parents. It does seem frustrating. But you said you wanted to work on it after ye were better. If you are willing to do that later, why not now? For him it is a barrier. He may well find another one if that was resolved but still. Matbe look deeper into the issue and figure out what exactly is the problem for you and then identify what can resolve those issues for you. If you cannot change a situation, you are forced to change yourself - Gandi.
To get to the root of your issues, keep asking yourself why. Why does it bother me so much? When you answer that, reask why. Continue until the bare truth is revealed. This exercise can be helpful, but takes effort and honesty.
But again, being separated, his parents and the related issues are surely not an issue for the moment. I would still think about it but no need to stress. I would follow OneArts advice about working on resentment and anger. Those will not serve you well
Hope some of that is helpful
Best wishes
Welcome back, but I'm sorry you had to return.
You've been given very good advice from the posters.
I'm sorry things didn't work out w/your moving back in. Reconnection takes a lot of time and patience. It's evident that he's not any where near reconnecting and working on the marriage. It's good that you and your dog moved out. Maybe it's time for you to rethink the finances and allow him to take care of his own health insurance, etc. I know you and your h agreed on how the bills would be paid, but there comes a time when you have to cut the apron strings that he is relying on and allow him to learn how to walk on his own and be accountable for all of his bills. To him, in his frame of mind, he knows that he can rely on you to be there, i.e., as a mother figure.
The racking up of the credit card tells me that he's not learned the lessons that he needed to learn and eventually, he will meet the credit card limit and then what? Will he get another card or file for bankruptcy? You know him better than we do, but I would seriously consider, at this time, of getting all of my bills in my name and paying for them myself. He will eventually need money to pay his credit card bills and hopefully will not leave you hanging in the wind on your bills.
I realize that things might not have been great w/his parents in the picture, but when it comes to family, blood is thicker than water and generally, MLCers will tend to go with the option that is the easiest for them. I can't help but wonder is there something else going on w/him and his parents and he is using that as an excuse to detach from you. They will always be front and center in his life and maybe it's time for you to think about what you really want. Do you want his parents to be the ghosts in the room each and every day that you are w/him? Do you want him to feel like he has to choose between you and his parents? Have you spoken to his parents at all to get a better understanding of what needs to take place in order to have peace and harmony?
Just keep in mind, if the situation works itself out w/his parents, he may very well come up w/another excuse not to reconcile. They tend to find more and more excuses as we tackle each issue and it becomes very frustrating.
I agree w/the posters on working on your anger and resentment issues. These issues take up a lot of time and energy from a person who has these feelings. Continue to work on you, find ways to make yourself happy w/o him in the picture for the time being. If, and when, the time comes, you will know when to walk completely away. But, I do not think you are there yet.
Remember, this is not a sprint, it's a marathon and you can't rush the process. If you truly want to find a way to reconcile, then you have to leave him be to figure things out for himself. Going to self help seminars, etc., will not fix his issues until he's ready to truly do the heavy lifting and look within and do the work.
Keep the focus on you!
SKM, I don't think ambivalence is bad (if it is I'm probably a lot more guilty than you).
1. You say you won't be contacting him anymore and you guys don't talk;
2. You say you want to know when it is time to give up;
3. You say you won't be the one to file; and
4. You say you are ambivalent about divorce.
I think you look like someone who doesn't want to try (which is understandable), or maybe doesn't want to try that same way again, and doesn't want to give up (which is also understandable). What is left other than limbo if neither of you can make a move to the other. I think he made a move. I think it may be your turn. (But of course all that matters at the end of the day is what you think).
I wonder what would happen if you and your H only had a calling or texting or friendly relationship for a while (with you initiating sometimes despite your pronouncement). Seems like he doesn't want to be divorced either. Seems like he's at least had a first awakening and walked quite a way towards you. Seems like maybe he was going to use the remaining dog as a bridge, but then maybe got lonely, or it felt insurmountable, and got the new dog.
I think were it me I would stop making pronouncements to him (I won't contact you again) and just try to see if you guys can be friends again. Is he someone you want to be friends with? What if you had the opportunity to figure that out without the pressure of living together? What if you called him up and asked how it was going with the new dog or asked if he wanted the new dog to meet the old dog? And avoided relationship talks at all cost.
You are at a different stage than a lot of folks here. I wouldn't call that an early or false reconciliation in the traditional sense; I think it was just too early for your anger and his lack of remorse. Too much too soon. What would a 180 for your situation look like? How can you resolve your own ambivalence one way or another?
Roist, Job and OneArt…...thank you for the replies.
I made a decision to reach out to H on Friday to see if he would be interested in going to the park with me and the dog. He did not reply so I reached out again today and said "never heard back form you, we are headed to the park and would love to see you." He replied and said he would meet us there. Today, we meet and there was awkwardness (on his part) when we arrived. I said hello first and he did not reply, not a great feeling to not have him say hello back. I later asked him if he heard me and he said he did and didn't know why he didn't say anything back.
He greeted the dog and we started off to the park. The conversation of the new dog came up quickly and he said the reason he did not tell me was because he had been struggling whether it was the right thing to do. He didn't want it to seem like he was replacing the one that passed away. He has been lonely in his house. He talked quite a bit, mostly about himself and his new dog that is coming, and how he is currently dog sitting. He spoke about his work and said that he was glad I asked him to come out to meet them cause he knew we needed to talk about 'us." I mentioned that my intent was not for us to speak about us our marriage or lack there of, and that I simple wanted today to be about him spending time with the dog and seeing how he was. Unfortunately that did not last long...….
He blamed me for why he has not reached out to see the dog. When he said that I told him that upsets me because I didn't feel like it was up to me whether he saw the dog or not. I could feel myself getting angry so I told him to please leave me alone for a little bit......and he did. He later came back and said he did not want me to think he was blaming me because he knows it is really about him. He said he still has a lot of fear when it comes to talking about things, mostly things that are uncomfortable to him. He said he is working on it as best he can. He then started talking about how he knows he still has a lot of work to do.
We continued to talk about him and how he is still living in fear of judgement and how others perceive him, and how his pride really does take over when he makes decisions. He said he the reason he waited so long to answer my text yesterday was because he wanted to make sure he was going to say the right thing.
Unfortunately his parents came up in conversation and he said he understands why I am upset about how they treated me but he feels like "at some point I need to let it go." He did ask me if I thought that the reason I did not get along with his parents was the reasons we continued to have issues and I said I did, and he said "it is one of the reasons."
Now this is when it got upsetting for me......he said the dreaded "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" statement
OUCH!!!! I told him that I understand why he feels that way. I told him that neither one of use has really been honest about how we feel towards each other. I also said that I know I can be very difficult at times, and that I get angry and upset and say hurtful things......and I have no excuse for that. And, the only reason I do that is to make him feel bad.
He said no one can make him feel any worse about himself then him. He said everyday he thinks about what he did and how he treated me and the bad choices he made. He then said he wanted a divorce. I asked him why he wanted a divorce and he said he "wasn't happy and didn't want to be married anymore." I asked him if he thought getting a divorce would make him happy and he said "no, it makes me sad thinking about getting a divorce."
He then said he went to see lawyer and can not afford to pay the retainer fee. He then asked me if we needed a lawyer in order to get a divorce. I took that to mean he wanted us to do some sort of an online divorce. We don't have kids and we don't have community property any longer because I sold the house previously. THEN IT CAME......"and I think we should split all the money that is in the bank" ……...then the anger in me came out...not one of my better moments.
He does not have one dime of money in any sort of savings account and has never contributed to the current savings accounts. I also have a 401K, as well as an IRA and a different savings account that I opened after BD.
I told him that I did not want a divorce but would not stand in his way if he felt like he needed to proceed with one. I then said to him that I think that the both of us have not done the work needed to make this marriage work. I took FULL RESPONSIBILITY for my anger, frustration, resentment and any negative emotion that I had during our marriage as well as after BD and up until today. I also said I felt like he did not really want a divorce but didn't know what else to do and thinks that this is it.
I apologized for raising my voice and apologized for saying mean things to him. Hearing myself speak like that tells me I HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO!!!!!
Before we left he agreed to go to discernment counseling, and we both agreed to not to speak to anyone about what we spoke about today regarding the divorce.
I am so sad
I am so impressed by what you did. That took so much strength and character. Just the reaching out to him alone, and then realizing that you were overcome by anger and asking for time, apologizing for actions, and remaining true to what you want.
I think you have to let go of the divorce talk and the ILB talk and not dwell on them. I've read a lot of reconnection and reconciliation threads over the years. I think it takes a long, long time for the love to be able to come forward. It is not uncommon for them to repeat these things. When every interaction is an unpleasant and tough talk, it is hard to feel that feeling. You did your best not to go there, but it sounds like this stuff needed to be said. I'm sure he thinks he wants the divorce because he wants to stop hurting and he doesn't know what else to do. But you know it won't and deep down he probably knows it to.
I think you took a huge step in walking toward him, in acknowledging your issues, in addressing the elephant in the room (his parents). I think for discernment therapy they ask for a 6 month or year long commitment to the process. I wouldn't give it any less time than that. It seems that he is in a place that he can admit some things, and own up to things, as you can. I think if you can bring that honesty in your sessions, both for the bad feelings and the good ones, you guys will get a lot of the process.
I imagine it was hard and unpleasant at times, but you probably did more work on your marriage in that one conversation than in years' previous.
One Art......thank you for continuing to read long and for giving words of advice, well as things to continue to keep thinking about.
Yes, yesterday was unpleasant at times. I have replayed the conversations in my head over and over again. I know there were things I could have handled better, as well as not let my emotions get the best of me. I know that the patterns that I am using are not effective, and it is only up to me to break those patterns.
I was reading a particular chapter in the DR book today and something struck me.......I really just need to let go of the whole “parent issue.” If I really sit and think about it they really should have no bearing on my relationship with H. They can’t take back what they have said about me or told him to do to me, those are their issues/demons to deal with. And why they chose to think or act that way is not for me to try to figure out. I have continued to make it an issue by continuing to bring them up..... so I’m going to let it go.
I went back and looked at text messages H and I had exchanged during the time we were together the past year and we were in the same pattern that we were after initial BD. I also re-read posts that I had put here at that time, as well as replies from all of you, and if I would have just been able to open my mind I would have seen that what everyone was telling me was right. I can honestly say that he was tying harder than I was. But at that time I did not want to see what he was doing because I still wanted to “play the victim.” I wanted him to do all the heavy lifting and I felt like he owed it to me because of his cheating. Why couldn’t I see all of that at the time?? Am I only seeing it now because I feel threatened by him saying he wants a divorce? I know I keep saying this, but I really truly feel he does not want a divorce, he just wants the pain to end, and he thinks that this is how it will.
I’m not going to reach out to him, because I know that will only push him further away. He said he would contact me, so I guess I will wait and see.
I’m planning on keeping myself busy this afternoon by spending time with friends for St. Patrick’s Day. This should help me keep my mind off of things. I just hope they don’t ask how things were going between me and H......but I sure they will.
SKM
SKM, I think you are in a different place than most. I don't think you are dealing with a runner in the tunnel (at least not too deeply in there). If he doesn't reach out soon, don't be shy about reaching out to him. You always have the excuse of the dog or discussing next steps.
You are doing some important work for you own healing. Keep it up. Read some books about getting over the affair and letting go of anger. There are a lot of good ones out there.
We all need a good solid dose of reality to shake us up every once in a while.
Roist, Job and OneArt…...thank you for the replies.
I made a decision to reach out to H on Friday to see if he would be interested in going to the park with me and the dog. He did not reply so I reached out again today and said "never heard back form you, we are headed to the park and would love to see you." He replied and said he would meet us there. Today, we meet and there was awkwardness (on his part) when we arrived. I said hello first and he did not reply, not a great feeling to not have him say hello back. I later asked him if he heard me and he said he did and didn't know why he didn't say anything back.
He greeted the dog and we started off to the park. The conversation of the new dog came up quickly and he said the reason he did not tell me was because he had been struggling whether it was the right thing to do. He didn't want it to seem like he was replacing the one that passed away. He has been lonely in his house. He talked quite a bit, mostly about himself and his new dog that is coming, and how he is currently dog sitting. He spoke about his work and said that he was glad I asked him to come out to meet them cause he knew we needed to talk about 'us." I mentioned that my intent was not for us to speak about us our marriage or lack there of, and that I simple wanted today to be about him spending time with the dog and seeing how he was. Unfortunately that did not last long...….
Why did you make contact to invite H? I don't need to know, but it could help you if you uncover exactly what motivated you.
I know you are upset that he spent 1000 on another dog. I agree, especially when there are many free dogs around. But look at it another way. Many LBS here wish that their WAS would seek company of a dog to fill their loneliness!! Much better than other alternatives. He blamed me for why he has not reached out to see the dog. When he said that I told him that upsets me because I didn't feel like it was up to me whether he saw the dog or not. I could feel myself getting angry so I told him to please leave me alone for a little bit......and he did. He later came back and said he did not want me to think he was blaming me because he knows it is really about him. He said he still has a lot of fear when it comes to talking about things, mostly things that are uncomfortable to him. He said he is working on it as best he can. He then started talking about how he knows he still has a lot of work to do.
We continued to talk about him and how he is still living in fear of judgement and how others perceive him, and how his pride really does take over when he makes decisions. He said he the reason he waited so long to answer my text yesterday was because he wanted to make sure he was going to say the right thing.
Unfortunately his parents came up in conversation and he said he understands why I am upset about how they treated me but he feels like "at some point I need to let it go." He did ask me if I thought that the reason I did not get along with his parents was the reasons we continued to have issues and I said I did, and he said "it is one of the reasons."
These paragraphs speak tonnes IMO. It shows how he is not in a good state of mind. It proves it even. The good news is that this depression can eventually lift, leaving place for clarity. The bad news isthat for the moment all decisions are clouded by it. I find it positive that he sees he is unhappy, sees his fear, acknowledges not knowing why he does some stuff and most importantly realises he has a lot of work to do on himself and that he has started Now this is when it got upsetting for me......he said the dreaded "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" statement
OUCH!!!! I told him that I understand why he feels that way. I told him that neither one of use has really been honest about how we feel towards each other. I also said that I know I can be very difficult at times, and that I get angry and upset and say hurtful things......and I have no excuse for that. And, the only reason I do that is to make him feel bad.
Ouch. Yeah that gotta hurt you. It is never an easy thing to hear. Don't dwell on it. It is his truth at the moment. That can change. Believe that. He said no one can make him feel any worse about himself then him. He said everyday he thinks about what he did and how he treated me and the bad choices he made. He then said he wanted a divorce. I asked him why he wanted a divorce and he said he "wasn't happy and didn't want to be married anymore." I asked him if he thought getting a divorce would make him happy and he said "no, it makes me sad thinking about getting a divorce."
This again speaks volumes about his state of mind. He is unhappy with himself. Many LBS understand at least on a surface level what depression can feel like. I can say from experience that it is a terrible horrible place to be. Most WAS associate their spouce/their M to be the source of this feeling and the logical solution is to remove themselves from the situation to feel better. Your H seems to already have an insight into the fact that the problem is deeper within him. That is a huge headstart on many. The fact that it saddens him to think about getting divorced I find positive. I will issue a small warning about it though in that he is likely to be sad about everything anyway. But it does show that he hasn't this rosey picture of the greener grass on the other side and hence has less motivation to pursue it. He then said he went to see lawyer and can not afford to pay the retainer fee. He then asked me if we needed a lawyer in order to get a divorce. I took that to mean he wanted us to do some sort of an online divorce. We don't have kids and we don't have community property any longer because I sold the house previously. THEN IT CAME......"and I think we should split all the money that is in the bank" ……...then the anger in me came out...not one of my better moments.
He does not have one dime of money in any sort of savings account and has never contributed to the current savings accounts. I also have a 401K, as well as an IRA and a different savings account that I opened after BD.
H has had another reality check and can see the expensive side of D. There are surely many other costs that he cannot see too. It is good that he saw that before launching the D boat. Don't help him find a cheap D. Tell him that whatever way it proceeds you will ensure it is done right even if that is more expensive. Don't elaborate but it is just to show you won't be pushed over to accommodate him.
Maybe you need to seek legal advice about your rights and his regarding "your" money. Take the advice and safeguard it. Once you are reassured about that or at least clear where you stand, hopefully it will not be a source of further I told him that I did not want a divorce but would not stand in his way if he felt like he needed to proceed with one. I then said to him that I think that the both of us have not done the work needed to make this marriage work. I took FULL RESPONSIBILITY for my anger, frustration, resentment and any negative emotion that I had during our marriage as well as after BD and up until today. I also said I felt like he did not really want a divorce but didn't know what else to do and thinks that this is it.
I apologized for raising my voice and apologized for saying mean things to him. Hearing myself speak like that tells me I HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO!!!!!
On several different points, you talked about your anger. Whereas I understand why you are angry, I can assure you that it will not serve you well. You have identified it as a point to work on. Outline how you plan to do that. Imagine the difference it could make in your interactions with H if it wasn't there. Anger clouds our vision too, so it can influence you in a way you would otherwise not choose. Before we left he agreed to go to discernment counseling, and we both agreed to not to speak to anyone about what we spoke about today regarding the divorce.
I am so sad
So what are you going to use that required time and space to do yourself? I don't just mean working on yourself but also to enjoy life.
Best wishes
Skm
sorry..for your pain-
I don't know anything about that counseling but hopefully it can help-
If I remember your situation from b4..Your H made movement toward you when you were showing signs of being done..moving on
when you were selling the house? Is that correct?
Either way , not to contact is probably a good plan-
working on you creating new activites, friends ect hobbies
healing-
I would not beat yourself up-about anything
We all do the best we can at any point and usually only learn after--
sometimes the price is high to learn stuff we need to BUT
nothing ever turns out wrong in the big scheme of things
trust that-
In the aftermath of Hs latest affair 1/2018, we went to MC for 6 months. Got nowhere. H could not stop ping-ponging from work on M, status quo, or S with intent to D. We then did discernment counseling. The purpose is to make one of those decisions. IF you chose work on M, it's then intensive MC with wholehearted intent to repair marriage. Does it always end up repaired? No. But both spouses need to commit to it. Status quo is exactly what it says. Don't change anything....for now.
H and I went to 4 sessions. Although throughout all of MC, and at the beginning of discernment counseling, I was adamant I want to try to R, He could not move closer to any one choice. When pressed, he probably was closer to S, but he couldn't/wouldn't do anything or say anything about it. In the end, I'm the one that said I thought he should move out temporarily for him to hopefully get a clearer picture of what he wanted. In retrospect, I have my doubts this was wise, but the situation was bringing me down and keeping me stuck. I hated who I was becoming with status quo.
We made it through 4 sessions out of the designated 6 before I suggested that.
So, I guess for me it got me unstuck, and moving forward. For H, he is still ping-ponging to this day.
I wish you luck on your journey.
Hello skm
It is interesting that H agreed to meet you for a visit in the park. The conversation I believe was benifical. His responses show a lot of self awareness, about the pain and difficulties he has caused you, and that he is experiencing. There is even some responsibility for his actions. This is encouraging.
Like all endeavours - do more of what works and less of what doesn’t.
He positively responded to your invitation for a visit. Give him some time and space; see if he reaches out. If not, ask again. Perhaps in a few weeks.
The next time:
“I simply wanted today to be about him spending time with the dog and seeing how he was. Unfortunately that did not last long...….”
Do that. Just spend time with him and have fun with the dog. The previous conversation probably gave him enough to think about for a while. If he brings something up, just kind of let it go and “spend time”. Of course listen and acknowledge, but no need to have a R conversation so soon after the last one.
H seems to be in a different place than most. Remaining calm and pressure free may just help him have a few more pieces to fall somewhat in to place, or at least into play.
From my point of view, things went really well. I wish my spouse had such “feelings” and awareness.
You’re doing fine.
DnJ
Hello everyone.….been at work the two days and missed everyone commenting.
Thank you OneArt, Roist, Peace, Grace and DNJ. It means a lot to me that you would all take the time to respond.
I have had a few days to think about the last interaction with H and everything that was said during that time. It was hard to hear him say the "ILYB" statement again. I know he is struggling with his feelings and emotions. That is something he has struggled with our entire marriage.
Roist.......the reason that I made contact with H was because he had sent a text at the end of January saying he really wanted to spend more time with the dog. But I knew he would not reach out, so that is why I made the decision to do it. By his own admission, he over thinks every decision or interaction he is going to make beforehand, and usually does not follow through on a lot of things because of that.
He really has made progress when it comes to being able to acknowledge his lack of feelings and emotions, as well as his fears. He also acknowledged that he still has work to do and even stated during our last conversation that he avoids conversations with people (and me) because he is afraid of what they will say, and assumes there will be some sort of confrontation. I really wish he could find a way to get over that.
He is unhappy and it is a hard thing to see. I totally agree with you when you say that most WAS associate their spouse or M to be the source of their unhappiness. That has taken me a long time to understand, but I finally get it. I had mentioned in the past that maybe he was depressed and he totally disagreed with me. He wants everyone to see him as this happy, go lucky, positive kind of guy. But in fact, he is someone who sits at home alone most nights. But, he is also the guy who will bend over backwards for friends and will go out of his way to do things for them.
Luckily for me I am secure from a financial standpoint, and don't depend on H in that issue. If I end up having to give H some money, it will make a dent, but I should be okay. The bills he does pay, in return for keeping him on my health insurance, are in my name.
Peace......yes in the past H started to make his way towards me when he knew that I was showing signs of being done. I had taken 6 weeks off work and traveled on my own with the dogs. That time really opened my eyes. When I came back from that time away I decided to sell the house and that is when H started to see that I was a different person and started coming back around.
I know that some of these lessons are very hard to learn, and I hope that one day I can look back and see that it was what I really needed.
Grace......After BD H and I did not go to MC. We were going about a year before when I thought we were in a bad spot......little did I know he was cheating at the time. H agreed to go to discernment counseling, but he also said that he wanted to educate himself a bit more about it. The day that we spoke he said he would let me know his schedule so that I could try to arrange for times to set up. Well, I have not heard from him at all, which I am not surprised about. I am not going to bring it up again.
I know that he sees his IC every Wednesday so I would imagine that he will bring that up during his session.
I understand your sentiment about hating who you were becoming during the status quo. I used to tell myself that H really brought out the worst in me, but I know have come to realize that my anger is really the issue.
I am following along on your sitch, and am rooting for you
DNJ.....I have followed your sitch from the beginning and have found that you have great wisdom and strength in your posts. I really do enjoying reading what you have to say,
I don't feel like I am doing fine
I don't know what it is, but when I am around H it is so easy for me to let my emotions go and then that spills over into everything. Like Roist said..."anger clouds our vision". Yes, H has self awareness about the pain both of us is experiencing. It really is hard to see him struggle. This whole BD process has really opened my eyes to some many things...….good and bad.
I don't have any plans to reach out to H. Initially I thought about texting him to see if he would watch the dog this weekend as I will be at work (Sat, Sun and Mon) but then I decided not to do that. H knows that he is home alone while I work, and has not reached out to see him in the past, so I am not going to ask him to help out. It does get me upset though when I think about it because he is currently dog sitting for two of his friends who are away on spring break, but he cant watch his own dog??? There is the anger!!!
The last couple of days at work were pretty hard (for many reason) and I actually broke down at work which is something I usually do not do. I spoke with the Chaplain at the hospital and he gave me some things to think about, but the most important thing he said to me was "you need to find the time to take care of you." AMEN!!!
I am not exactly sure why, but after the last interaction with H (and breaking down at work) I feel this sense of calm. If H decides that he is going to proceed with the D there is nothing I can do about it. I told him that I will not stand in his way if that is his decision, but I will not help facilitate it.
Sorry, that was quite a long post...……….
Hope everyone is well
Hello friend!
I don't frequent as much as I used to but you are one of the poeple I would follow and still look for. I look forward to reading these updates soon! Kids sports are calling today, but I will be back later. .... OneArt, I think I have figured you out. I'm a little slloooowwwwwww. Sorry! ... I need to update soon as well. Not that I have much exciting to say. ... And where is Coly? .... I feel so much less motivated to read/post when my friends disappear.
Cheers all!
Blu
Hello skm
I am not exactly sure why, but after the last interaction with H (and breaking down at work) I feel this sense of calm.
In your last interaction you expressed some of your anger, at one point you even asked him to leave you alone for a bit. The breaking down at work was a further release of pent-up emotions. Getting those out, is healthy, and brings the calm.
I don't feel like I am doing fine
I understand you don’t “feel” like you are doing fine.
Now, you’ve read my situation so you probably have heard me speak about feelings, thoughts, and beliefs - I might have said something about that once or twice.
Feelings are fleeting. Let them flit away. Feelings will persist for as long as you reinforce or feed them. This is for all of them. Anger, love, sad, happy, etc...
So, you feel like your not doing fine. How do you think you are doing? How do you believe you are doing? Really consider those two responses. Ensure you are sitting in the corresponding “car” when finding your answers.
I don't know what it is, but when I am around H it is so easy for me to let my emotions go and then that spills over into everything.
Emotional hijacking is very common and takes a concerted effort to overcome.
From what I’ve read anger is the problem emotion for you. There is caring, kindnesss, compassion, sorrow, and such as well, and these can also hijack you. However anger does seem to be the most passionate for you.
This is not all that surprising. Love and anger are just a hair’s breadth apart from each other. Both are passionate feelings. It is pretty darn hard to be mad at something or someone if you don’t care about it or love them.
Feelings are born from within our subconscious. They are real, so acknowledge them. They are also irrational, meaning not based on logic and reason. Irrational is not wrong or crazy - it is just emotions. We strive to accept our feelings and let go of ones that don’t serve us.
Intellect is where logic and reason reside. Being completely rational, feelings do not exist within our intellectual thoughts. We strive to understand and reason, thereby letting go those ideas and thoughts that do not serve us.
So, how to let go of anger. Let’s use the dog example from you park conversation.
I don't have any plans to reach out to H. Initially I thought about texting him to see if he would watch the dog this weekend as I will be at work (Sat, Sun and Mon) but then I decided not to do that. H knows that he is home alone while I work, and has not reached out to see him in the past, so I am not going to ask him to help out. It does get me upset though when I think about it because he is currently dog sitting for two of his friends who are away on spring break, but he cant watch his own dog??? There is the anger!!!
There is a lot I wish like to say; I’ll try to be concise.
Something I found very helpful for getting my feelings under control is to be accurate. Be accurate in thought and heart. See things as they truly are.
It is obvious you got angry. We cannot reason or stop an emotion. All we can do is not feed it and let it run it’s course. Usually returning from being emotionaly hijacked takes about 30 minutes, if we stop feeding it.
Once you are calm, like now, get in your intellectual car and stay there for this part. Really! Do not succumb to your emotions, stay with reason and logic. Why are you angry about the dog situation? What is it about that event that brings those feelings out?
Find the answer. Think it, don’t feel it.
From here you can accurately and clearly see the event that triggers your emotional, irrational, and completely beyond your control, response. This is what you are trying to achieve, to see what was going on that brought about your feelings.
Now, look at the event, the trigger. Remember while staying in the intellectual car you will not feel anything regarding this event. You can logically see it and rationalize it. This will uncouple the event from your emotional response. The more rational you see what is going on, the less irrational (emotional) response you will have.
This does take effort, a mental assertiveness, and more than a few times to get it figured out - so some time is required, by patient and keep at it.
This idea, or method, is the basis of detachment, indifference, and letting go - especially fear.
I would also point out you have some expectations in regard to H’s probable responses. This also leads you down an emotional road you need not go.
I could ramble on about beliefs and so on, however I’ll stop here.
I would like to ask what your headings are, what destination are you working towards? Knowing you’ve followed me, you can guess my suggestions. Kindness, compassion, understanding, and forgiveness.
I am interested in what you think regarding your triggers and this method. I would be happy and willing to discuss further if you wish.
DnJ
Hi DNJ...….thank you for taking the time to reply.
I don't think I am doing fine in the sense that I still can not seem to get a handle on the anger and resentment that I have towards H. I work in healthcare and have the ability to show great kindness, compassion, sorrow, empathy and all of those emotions, but when it comes to H I seem to not be able to find it in me to show that to him. I was thinking today that my anger comes from him not meeting my expectations when it came to how I thought he should have felt and reacted after BD.
I feel like he didn't try hard enough to make sure that I was okay through all of this. I had this idea that he should do everything there was possible to make sure I was okay, that I recovered from all of this trauma and that I felt safe and secure. But in all honestly, what I really felt was abandoned.
Even when we did reconcile, I still had expectations that he should be doing more. I still did not feel like a priority. He didn't ever suggest counseling for the two of us during that time, but I did. He didn't make changes to his workout routine, which was a big deal prior, and I felt he continued to make selfish decisions (opened another credit card and didn't tell me) and to make his best friend and certain clients a priority over me/us.
The reason I am angry about the dog situation is because he has a dog and does not reach out to see him or spend time with him, but whenever his best friend leaves town, he will always offer to take care of their pets. And now he is taking care of a clients dog who is also out of town. These two people (the BFF and client) were an issue for us because he would drop everything for them and put their needs and wants over what I felt. He didn't know how to do both...….help out his friend and spend time working on us...….for him it was either one or the other.
I can remember one night he told me he was not going to be able to meet me for dinner because he had to go to his client's sons football game. This particular client, I feel has over stepped the bounds of a professional relationship, because she calls and asks H to come to her sons football games, asks him to go to the out of town games with her, and she also asks him to come to their house to work on her son (H works with high school/college athletes). She would also make it difficult for H to decline the offers because she would say "I already bought your ticket to the game" or "you should ride with me to the game" or "I will pay you to watch the dog for me." She also is the one who gave him a living room full of furniture when I asked H to leave after I found out about his affair. She has also told him that he should divorce me, told him to block me on texts, emails and social media, and has told him that he deserves better and blah blah blah.
H continues to struggle financially, so any chance he can get to make a few extra dollars he will do it, and she knows that he is struggling. I honestly think that if she ever found out that he did not have enough money to get a lawyer that she would offer to pay for it for him.....and I think he would let her.
I know that these are all examples of things that make me FEEL angry and upset. They may seem very petty, and after reading what I wrote …….it is petty, but it is the reality of what I deal with with H.
Your idea of thinking it and don't feel will most certainly take some time to get used to doing......but I will try.
I have ordered a few books online to try and help me with learning how to let go of my anger and resentment and trying to work on forgiving. I have forgiven H for his affair, but I have not forgiven other issues like how I feel like he abandoned me. Also hoping they can shed some light on letting go of expectations.
SKM
Expectations of others will drive anyone batty and create anger and resentment. It takes a lot of energy to be angry and resent someone because they either didn't do or say what we had hoped.
When the BD, and still today, your h doesn't have it in him to help anyone but himself. He's not capable of taking care of you and ensuring that you are okay. I have a feeling that he knows that you are a very strong and independent woman who can take care of herself, but he doesn't realize that you still need someone to lean on once in a while. Your h sounds a lot like my xh who would come to the rescue of others, but when it came to doing things for me, it didn't happen and I did ask him about it one time...the answer...he knew I could take care of myself and anything that needed to be done. He didn't feel needed by me. I don't know if that is how your h feels about your situation, but maybe his "love language" is that he needs to be needed, affirmed and recognized for what he does. Maybe he's getting that from others at the moment.
Yes, the lady client is being way too friendly outside of a work relationship....but she knows that you two are separated and he's there by himself. She sees no harm in inviting him to games, but I also see this being more of an emotional affair at the moment. She sits there and offers him friendship, comfort and most likely encourages him to talk about himself, the business and life. You do not have a clue as to what he's told her about you. If she is encouraging him to divorce you, I think she has an ulterior motive in suggesting this, i.e., she wants him for herself. She's using every excuse she can find to have him be around her and yes, she is playing the damsel who can't take care of things for herself or hire someone else to do the work for her. Your h is fragile and vulnerable and doesn't have a clue that he is being manipulated by this client/so called friend. He needs to figure this out on his own and cut the after hours business w/this particular woman.
I will honestly say yes, she would pay for your h's lawyer to help him divorce you. She would do anything to have this man if he just said the word "yes, I need to divorce her".
Actually, I do not think what you posted about your h is petty. I've been there and know what you have dealt with and it's very frustrating when your spouse will go off on his white horse and rescue others, but leaves his spouse at home to deal w/things.
I hope the books will help you. Letting go of expectations is very freeing and it allows that anger, resentment and disappointment slowly disappear. We are fixers and because we hold ourselves to a certain standard, we tend to forget that others do not do the same. It took me a long time to learn to accept people for who they are and not expect them to do or act the way that I had hoped.
skm,
I have read all of your recent posts and would like to weigh in. I also recall your previous posts -- he had an A, he was distant on/off, did the Landmark Forum, not responsible with money, there was a brief recon, the selling of the house, the dogs, and the issues with his parents. And you are this hardworking nurse (practitioner I think), independent, strong and remained loyal to him throughout it all. The sense I have gotten, and continue to read here, is a lot of resentment from you. And I think it is completely understandable! It does not mean anything is wrong with you or that you need to change!
My perspective here on the boards can be different than others and one (aside from time) of the reasons I don't post much. So please take what I say with a giant grain of salt. I had the H come back and "do all the things" and he has been back for 4 years. I still don't have a great M, and maybe not even a very good one. It is functioning nonetheless and we are both here. However, a motivator for me is that we have 3 kids, a home we own, and my finances/quality of life would take a huge hit if I didn't stick this out. I couldn't even aford to stay in my community or keep my kids in their schools. .... You don't have that with him, so from my (limited) perspective, you have more freedom to leave it behind you. Again, you are free to discard my advice.
Look, you deserve so much more than anything this guy is willing to give you. Even when he was willing to give it a go, he didn't seem completely in it, committed to making it work or even remorseful for the hurt he had caused. That is why I said I think it is understandable that you have anger. You can read books, and work on your anger, but IMHO if you close the door on this relationship with him, you will also let go of some of this anger. Because you not only resent him and everything he has done (and NOT done) but you are angry at yourself for holding on. How could you not be?
He has told you in so many ways, he wants out, but poor baby can't even afford to file. LAME. He has given you the ILYBINILWY again. YAWN. He is not in a good financial space so he spends $1000 on a puppy and now he wants some of your hard earned money? NO WAY. This part actually makes me angry. You still have hard feelings about his parents and he is telling you to let it go. You are entitled to your feelings. A loving partner understands that and helps facilitate positive relationships with inlaws. But you don't have a loving partner. You have a piece of legal paperwork that says you are still M. So what are you trying to save? Even when he came back around, you questioned then if it was worth it. Perhaps you are more attached to the idea of him and what it could be verses the reality of who he is and what he is telling you?
I feel like most people here tell each other that there is always this chance that they could come around one day. And that is true. We also say how all we can do is let them go and focus on ourselves and that is also true. But what no one talks about is that we can wait for years and years and that opportunity may come and then THAT is the moment we realized we should have moved on years before. Because we cannot get those years back. And I imagine that you are young, beautiful and full of life, and you deserve a partner that sees that in you. Holding on to him -- and all the anger that surrounds that attachment -- is not helping you move forward. I don't think you can heal your resentment until you let go of him and the M.
Have you read any posts by Deja in Newcomers? Her M has been over for years and she is letting go and now seeing other people. Her energy has shifted so much and you can read it all over her posts. It is very refreshing.
I hope I don't seem too harsh. I like you and I have watched you blame yourself for your anger. I disagree with that. ... I just think the chance of him ever being good enough for you is so low. Even when they do come back and "do all the things" like my H did, it is still SO SO hard! The past doesn't go away. It can take many years and then we may still second guess it. Knowing what I know now about all the stuff I have been reading here, and in my own M, if I were not so tied to my family, I would leave it all behind me and start over. But I can't. And I also think my H deserves a chance. I don't see how your H does tho.
Blu
Job......you have a way of saying just what I need to hear.
Last night and today have been a bit of a wakening for me in regards to acknowledging things I continue to create. I am pretty stubborn …. no surprise hearing that....and I honestly thought that I had dealt with some things H has done and continues to do, but obviously I haven't.
It isn't fair to put expectations on anyone...even H. I just figured that if I was okay with allowing him back in my life then surely I had dealt with things and let some things go, but now looking back at the emails and texts between H and I, and postings from here, I haven't let go.
When I moved in with H I offered to help him pay the rent and utilities. He declined, and his reasoning was because he wanted to prove to me that he could take care of us. Previous to BD, I paid for just about everything, with the exception of the utilities of the home, which he took care of. I knew when I moved in with him that financially he was not capable, so I put $500 away every month while living there (he was not aware that I was doing that). I also got him to agree to let me buy groceries for us while I was living there. At one point while living there I had learned that H had not paid our taxes from a few years ago. I tried not to show my anger during that time. I just told him that he needed to figure out how to pay for it because it was from 2 years prior when we had filed "married but separated" and that tax bill was for what HE owed. Of course he did not have the money, so the money that I was putting away ended up paying for those taxes. Another issue of resentment for me.
It was always important for him that I "needed him" but in my mind I didn't need him, I wanted him. He struggled with that. He knows I am strong and independent and can take care of myself, and he even said on several occasions that he knew I would be fine because of that. I did and do need someone to lean into for support. Who doesn't, right?
His love language is "word of affirmation" and I am sure that all of you can tell by my postings this is something I struggle with in regard to H. I am trying....I did tell him on our last visit that I was proud of him for how he continues to work on himself. But, at that end of the conversation I had gotten pretty upset and said some things that most certainly did not show how proud of him I was …. not my proudest moment
I really do want to let go of all of this anger, resentment and negative feelings I have towards H and also his parents. I CAN NOT let them continue to have this sort of control over me. I know I am a good person, but being around him brings out the worse in me sometimes.
I have not heard from H since our last meetup, and I am not surprised. He was supposed to give me his schedule that evening so that I could arrange for discernment counseling but I never heard him. Tomorrow will be a week. I am not sure if not hearing from him is a good thing or not? I have no idea what he is doing, if he is trying to scrape together money for a lawyer, or continuing to ignore it all together. I have not control over that and am letting all of that go. If he files there is not anything I can do about it.
As far as the female client......he feels like if he rejects her in any way then she will not use his services anymore and that would mean less money in his pockets. If he doesn't have clients to work on, he doesn't get paid. She knows a lot of people and would say something to others if he ever decided not to engage her in her wants. She acts like she cares about him but in my mind it is manipulation. I am hoping that once her son leaves for college in the Fall, she will fall out of the picture.
I think we posted at the same minute!
Blu
Hey Blu......good to hear from you. Thanks for taking the time to catch up on my sitch.
Yes, it is me the hardworking NP, who stuck by her H while he was on/off with the marriage, doing his own thing, making selfish decisions, the Landmark Forum, not being responsible with money, etc etc etc.
I have read what you said to me several times and so much of it makes sense to me. Since having that last discussion with H I feel different. Not sure I can really explain it.....it is like a sense of calm has come over me, or maybe it is the St Johns Wort
I agree that he has not been remorseful for all the pain he caused me. I think I really wanted to see the man I thought he would become after all of the SH!T he put me through, and not the man he really is. When I step back and take a look at just exactly how he has treated me during these last 3 years, it is embarrassing that I have put up with all of these things.
I am a very strong, confident person......in my job I make life and death decisions concerning other peoples lives and without hesitation.....but when it comes to my own life, in terms of H and the marriage, I over analyze and try to convince myself to do something different. I have life and death conversations weekly with people, ask people to make a decision to remove their family member from life support and things of that nature, but for whatever reason I am not able to make a decision that will not end my life, but only change it.
I have known for the past several months that we would more then likely end up getting a divorce. I also knew that if that did happen I WOUND NOT be the one who files for it. I know it sounds weird, but I already feel like I am divorced. We have zero communication and honestly don't really have anything to discuss. Our lives are separate and have been for quite some time. H has made D@MN sure of that!!! And the whole "I want a divorce but cant afford a retainer...….but oh yeah, I am going to spend $1000 for a new dog" really p!ssed me off!!!!
When I think back about him I find myself thinking what a coward he really is. I remember receiving a text from him two days after finding out about his affair and it said "more karma coming my way, my check engine light is on and my car didn't start. I just want you to know I am feeling some of the consequences for my actions." For the first 2 days I heard NOT A WORD from this man!!! And then to get a text like that should have been very telling to me about who he really is.
It would have spoken volumes to me if he would have been the one to make the attempt to make things right between us. To this day he still says he "lacks courage to do what is right".....AMEN to that!!! I know it is hard for someone like him, who did not grow up in an environment where expressing, showing or receiving love was normal. He was the one who cried at our wedding, not me, so I know he is capable of feelings and emotions.
I continue to work hard at my job and I am D@MN good at it, now I just need to put some of that energy in to making ME and my better. I have a few opportunities with my job so that is promising. And I was told last week that there is even talk of me getting a raise in the near future
Holding on to what could have been with me and H and our marriage, is likely causing my continued anger and resentment. I am tired of blaming myself. I just honestly wonder if I ever will be able to forgive him for what he has done. I guess only time will tell.
Blu......I do not feel that you were too harsh at all. I appreciate your honesty.
SKM
Hello all.....
Not much to say in regard to others sitch, so I have been quietly reading along.
Things with H haven't really changed. The last time I spoke with him is when he told me he wanted a divorce, but also mentioned that he could not afford a lawyer and asked if we really needed one. I had not heard from him on that front. He also said he would let me know about discernment counseling but I also never heard back from him
The past week I have spoken to him twice. Unfortunately our remaining dog has not been feeling well so today I let H know that the vet was concerned something was wrong, but we were waiting for test results. I could hear H get choked up when I mentioned that something might be wrong.
We spoke about other things, but these past two conversations he has shared quite a bit more about himself and what he is thinking and feeling. He still states that he wants a divorce, and again asked for money from the sell of our house. I told him that he already knows how I feel about the divorce.....that I would not stand in his way but I would also not help him with it. I offered him a certain amount of money, not the full amount, and he refused saying "he wanted more."
He did not make any house payments while living there, nor did he pay for any of the cosmetic changes we made. His contribution was paying the utilities. I told him that I did not think it was fair for him to get half because he did not make contributions to it. I said that I knew he was struggling financially since BD and did not think it was fair for me to give him money to help him pay those debts he incurred after BD.
In the previous conversation I apologized to him, because looking back I feel that I could have tried harder during our last reconciliation. I felt like he was the one who was supposed to do most of the work and that somehow he owed me something. I know he tried (to the best of his abilities) but for whatever reason I did not think it was enough, so it was almost like I made him work harder. I was hoping I would have received an apology from him for certain things that I felt like he could have made more effort on but I didn't get it
I continue to learn that I can not have expectations in regard to him.....but that is really hard to do sometimes. He thanked me for apologizing.
Now.....this might not have been the best thing to say, but I told him that I honestly felt like he did still love me but that he had such fear about those feelings and did not know how to express them......he agreed that he still has a lot of fear. I told him that I also felt like we were not done with things. Meaning I strongly feel that we will one day be back together. I know that sounds so strange, and possible crazy, but it is how I feel. I don't know if this is wishful thinking, or is it me just not wanting to let go, but my gut has never been wrong and I feel this in my gut.
He asked if he could see our dog and have him this weekend as I will be working. I told him that would be fine. Honestly I do not really want to see him because whenever I do see him I get upset and my emotions get the best of me. We have keys to each others homes, so I might just drop the dog off that way I don't have to see him.
I would love to hear what you guys think. Hope everyone is well
SKM
I am sorry that your dog isn't feeling well. Hopefully the tests will reveal what is going on with him.
I don't recall if you have ever stated that the mortgage is your name only, but if his name is also on the mortgage, the law may look at it as he is to get half of the equity of the home, i.e., regardless as to whether he's paying the his share of the mortgage or not. That would be something that should be discussed w/lawyers to ensure that there is fair division of property for settlement.
Do you want a divorce? If not, then you need to stop having discussions about the division of property, etc. You are planting seeds in his head that you definitely want a divorce. Are you hoping that discussions about it will bring him running back to you? If so, I don't think that this will happen.
I know you want him to know how you feel about getting back together, but you need to cease these talks for now. You are putting undue pressure on him to get his act together. He can hardly take care of himself at the moment. He needs the time to figure things out and find a path back to reality. Focusing on your comments takes him away from what he needs to do for himself. Since you have stated your thoughts, now leave it alone and give him the time he needs. Trust me, he knew before this last conversation how you felt. He also knows that you are waiting in the wings. He senses it and he also knows that you are way too focused on him and his life at the moment. Step back, live your life and just leave him be.
In my opinion, you should only contact him if it's an emergency, i.e., the dog or something else. He needs the time and space to get it together. He's not going to snap out of it any time soon because he's got a ways to go. If he senses you pulling away, he just might come to realize that you aren't waiting on him any longer and start pedaling towards you.
Keep the focus on you and your dog! Only contact him when necessary. Keep moving forward and no more relationship talks w/him at this time.
Hi
I was also wondering if his name is on the house
I know you fell strongly about R with him, and Im a big believer in intuition, and it may happen-
and I totally agree with Job to move forward
no more relationship talks- let him see you letting go-making friends-having fun moving away from him
I think he has to see you are moving on with your life
I would see a L if you have not -think about if
for a free consult to see where you land financially if D happens
I would not tell your H about L
Hello.....
In regard to the mortgage, it was in both of our names. It was a way to help establish some credit for H, as he did not grow up in this country, and didn't have established credit.
For me its a big pill to swallow knowing that I made every mortgage payment for 9 years, and then years later BD happens. He didn't want me to sell the house after BD, and when he found out I was going to, he said he would not ask me for any of the money from the sale of it.
H was supposed to call tonight to get the dog since I am working the next 3 days....this should come as no surprise.....he didn't call. I had a feeling he wouldn't.
I know that the last conversation I had with him was pretty pitiful on my part. And yes, I do want him to know how I feel, but as Job has said he does know how I feel, I just need to let him do his thing and figure himself out.
When I do speak to him he sounds so put together and really has himself convinced. Honestly it is almost difficult to listen to him speak because he talks like he knows it all, and that he has everything worked out.
I have told myself that this is going to be difficult, but I have to really LET HIM GO. I now he will struggle but that is part of his journey and I will leave him to it.
This past week after the conversations I had with H, it put me back to a time when I first found out about his affair. He is spewing very similar things just like after BD. What that tells me is he is not in place where he thinks he is, or where I thought he was. This is not a sprint, this is a marathon.
So, enough about him. Things for me are busy. I have some new continuing education that I am working on in order to get my raise in June. I will be traveling out of town for a few conferences in order to meet the requirements for the increase in pay. I am traveling to NC and will be able to see a very good friend of mine on that trip...….so I am looking forward to that. I also have a trip tentatively planned for July to meet up with a few of my girlfriends who I have know for 25+ years.
As always, I appreciate all of the advice that is given to me. I am very stubborn, and obviously am the type of person that when I get a thought in my head I feel like someone needs to know about it...……..and usually that person who I fee like needs to know is H. Not a good choice!!! I will continue to work on letting him go, and do the work that is required of me.
Hope you all have a nice weekend. Here the weather is suppose to be in the mid 80s...….of course I will be at work and wont get to enjoy it
We are all fixers and stubborn. We want to fix them and we try and try and then one day, the advice that we offer here clicks in our brains. You have tried many times over to get him to see the light. Now, it's time to truly think about what you want and move forward in that direction.
As for the house, he may have said at that time that he didn't want anything from the sale, but they do tend to become selfish and want their share and sometimes more. I hope I am wrong about that for your sake.
As for your upcoming trips, please do not rely on him to take care of the dog. I would have a Plan B in place because it sounds like he's still not capable of meeting appointments and taking care of the dog. I'm not surprised he didn't call to get the dog. He's hiding from you because of the previous conversation. They can't stand confrontation or hearing the truth.
I'm glad you are moving forward and getting additional continuing education and have trips planned. You are a worker bee and will get that promotion w/o any problems.
Come here when you have a bee in your bonnet and need to vent. It's far better to do it here than to or at him. Even though he sounds together when you speak w/him....truly he's not. It's the mask he's wearing and when he's not around you, he is probably and confused mess. It's tiresome wearing masks around people.
Even though you are working, I hope you have a nice weekend and a pleasant Easter.
Hi
You will let go b/c you have before..
Happy Holidays
Thanks Job and Peace...……
Not much going on here. I continue to work too much, but it keeps my brain busy. Still planning those few trips this summer, as well as my continuing education trips. Work is busy right now (never good when you work in the medical field).
I heard from a friend that she saw H's truck at the lawyers office today. I guess that can only mean he is moving forward with D. I have not heard from him at all since our last conversation and I am not surprised. He has his new dog now and I am pretty sure that he thinks life is so great. I know that day will come when he makes the decision to move forward because he really believes that once he is divorced he will be "happy." I doubt he will give me any kind of heads up that he filed. I really would like to say something to him that I know he was at the lawyers office, but I'm sure that will only make him mad.
I can only assume that he borrowed money from his friend, since he continues to rack up credit card debt. I have checked his credit recently and no new credit cards or loans that I can see, so that is why I can assume he borrowed money from his friend, and also because he said he didn't have the money to file and that was why he wanted us to file without lawyers. I have not contacted a lawyer yet.....I will wait and see when I receive papers.
I don't have a good feeling about all of this though. He is so in debt and is not busy at his work right now, and that means no money is coming in as he works fee for service. I know he is struggling financially and that is probably giving him more motivation to file because he is under the impression he will be getting a decent amount of money.
It is a pretty hard pill to swallow knowing that I paid for everything during our marriage and he is the one who is unfaithful, then he goes and spends money like crazy, goes into debt and in the end I will have to give him my hard earned money. He contributed NOTHING to any sort of savings account. SO FRUSTRATING!!!!
I know in my heart and my head that he is still suffering and he just wants to do whatever he can to make himself feel better. He is wearing a mask to cover up his truths. One day those truths will come back to haunt him.
Don't assume anything. He may have been there for another reason. Time will tell if he is moving forward with the divorce. Until you know something, continue as you have been.
The old saying that "the truth will set you free" is very true. At some point in our lives, be it now, next week, next year, etc. or on our death beds, most of us will face those "truths". Some continue to run fast and hard. Let's hope your h finally comes to terms w/himself and those "truths" very soon.
Is there anything you can do to protect your assets
Have you seen a L for advice
I would get as much information as possible
I don't remember, but I'm sure you have
Well H did file for divorce. Not that he let me know, I found out by looking at the district court website. I called him and of course he did not answer and I also texted and of course no response.....not surprised by the lack of acknowledgement. I'm sure his lawyer (and his mommy) told him not to respond to me.
For me that is a HUGE slap in the face and so disrespectful on so many levels and speaks about his character. It also shows me what to expect from him moving forward.
Job.....Just like everyone else going through MLC, H thinks that the path he is on is the right one. He honestly feels like he has done so much work on himself and is in "such a better place" especially since he has gone to one year of IC. But in all honestly he is still running hard and fast. I'm sure he has his family and friends telling him that everything he is doing is right. I really hope he does come to terms with himself and his truths one day.....right now he is not anywhere near those truths. In my mind he still has not hit "rock bottom" despite what he thinks and is still living with so much fear, shame and guilt.
Peace......I contacted my previous lawyer and plan to have a phone call with him next week. I have not been officially served since he just filed today. I am not sure if this same lawyer will be a good advocate for me in the terms of trying to not let H take all of my money. When I filed last time I wanted to put 'infidelity" as the reason for divorce but he said that was not a good idea, so I didn't. I am going to need someone who is strong because I have a feeling that this could get ugly.
As difficult as it was to learn about him filing, there really isn't anything I can do to stop it. I know that I will have periods where my anger will get the best of me, and that is when I will need to reach out to friends, family or come here to vent.
I am not looking forward to this next phase
Hi skm
I am sorry about H’s secret filing for divorce. My XW filed secretly as well, I found out when I was served the divorce petition from my lawyer. She still, 7 months later, hasn’t mentioned it or brought it up with me or the kids. Of course the kids all know. It’s a bizarre relationship she built between them with that unsaid. MLC is a strange weird irrational thing.
You are correct, nothing you can do to stop it or him. He hasn’t hit rock bottom, still running hard and fast.
I like that you are open to changing lawyers, you might want to explorer a few more lawyers, depending on what separation agreements you already have in place. As you stated, you are now entering the next phase. It is probably the biggest financial decision of your life, doesn’t hurt to have a few different professionals look things over, and then go with whomever is best for you.
DnJ
DNJ...…
It is hard for me to wrap my brain around how someone who was in love and wanting our marriage to work in November of 2018 has now decided in May 2019 that he is ready for divorce. And to do it in such a sneaky way shows me what a coward he is.
I looked back and I filed on May 6, 2016 and now he has filed May 2, 2019.....AND our anniversary is May 19th
Not sure if he will ever hit rock bottom, I think he will continue to run hard and fast because that is most certainly a place he will not be comfortable going to.
Unfortunately we did not do a separation agreement (we don't have children and no property between the two of us, and we already had separate accounts)......not sure if we can/need to do one now as H has filed. I need to look into that.
I am certain that H will try to get as much money as he can from me. I mentioned in a previous post when I first came to the boards after I had filed, that his father told him to "take me for everything I had"...…...I'm sure the sentiment still applies.
He is struggling financially and has gotten himself into some debt around $20K (not including his truck payment), and he struggles to make ends meet monthly, so I am sure he is looking for me to be his "cash cow" and bail him out.
I really do hope that a judge will at least take a look at his spending habits and determine that it is not up to be to help him with all of that. However, my state is a community property state and since I sold the house he is entitled to half of the proceeds, that amount will take care of his debt and also leave him with quite a bit left over. I think he might also be entitled to other savings I put aside.
THAT is what is really making me upset. He spends like crazy, I save for our future, and now he gets half of the money and I did not get to reap any of the benefits of his spending.
My plan is to look for other lawyers.....maybe someone will be a bit of "bulldog" and fight for what I deserve.
I am so sorry he's filed. But, like many of them, they do not tell us when they filed. They do not consider that it is our business to know because they think we will explode, i.e., be angry, and start begging them to try to save the marriage. My xh didn't tell me, but by the time he filed, I was extremely happy to get the divorce over and done with. He tried to take me to the cleaners as well, but he had forgotten one thing...I had worked for lawyers and had access to the law library and had gotten some very sage advice from others on what to do before he filed.
Yes, they do get ugly, selfish and can be done right nasty when it comes to divorce and even though he said at one point he didn't want to do something, he will now. Get your ducks in a row and find a lawyer who isn't afraid to take him and his lawyer on. You want someone who is going to fight for you. BTW, I definitely would state the reason for the divorce is infidelity...why hide it. You certainly didn't drift apart. Do you have something called alienation of affection law in your state? You might want to look up your state and see if it exists. Some states have this law.
Take care and sending positive thoughts your way.
hi
Im so sorry
It was suggested to me to spend the extra money to get a real good L
I had a friend who had good results after her D and she recommended one and he was great
expensive but worth it
I know it is so hurtful
My XH did not tell me so I found out when served
Hang in there
ON a positive note you are closer to being done
and the other side of this has no more waiting or urgency
You did all you could and tried hard to help hi m and save the M
No one could ask more
If there are no children and no property involved, you likely don't need a separation agreement unless one of you is entitled to spousal support. My STBXH and I did one and it will just be applied to the divorce in May with no extra paperwork needed since we already dealt with property and custody/access to our children. Sorry things are going down this way. I remember how much it hurt when everything was at its peak in my sitch. I am happy to report, however, there is life after separation/divorce. I barely think of my STBXH at all these days. NEVER did I think I would get here but I did and my life is much much better without him than it was with him. His GF is welcome to him.
Hope you get there one day too. (((HUGS)))