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Gordie #20: patiently living my lifeHat tip to Ownit for stopping by and hitting the nail on the head and naming my thread
I do feel like I am in some uncharted territory for me
The good news is I know where I am
I know my strengths and weaknesses and values and even some of my blind spots
The bad news is I know where w is too and that is still firmly in the undecided camp
So yes how to follow my gut and instincts on the right thing to do
And not follow or be motivated by fear
DB coach says to keep doing what I am doing as it is making things better and not worse
Butterfly s last few posts really opened my eyes to things I had not previously seen so am filled with gratitude for her sharing that and those stories which obviously also resonated with sjohn and
Roist so good to hear from you and would love to know more of your thoughts and hear how you are doing when you have the time
And yes January seems so long ago when I had signed my lease to move out and even told my children that I was doing so and yes even after she dropped the D and OM I could have still moved out but I knew then and I know even more now that I made the right decision for me
I will post about recent events soon
Recent events
Thanks for all of the advice about birthday and anniversary and vacation
I listened to all of the advice and went with my gut
I bought small gifts and invited w to do low key things with the expectation she may say no
She accepted my invitations and we enjoyed our time together like you would with a friend
I am now at the stage where I can spend time with her and not walk on eggshells in fear of what she may say or do
That is a recent development and an improvement for me
We also had the first real family vacation in the two years since B D
Kids had been bugging me to plan something so I discussed with w and we agreed on a plan
During vacation she surprisingly wanted to spend a lot of one on one time without the kids
During these quiet times she also held my hand which she has not done in a very long time
Over the last month we have been relatively conflict free
One incident happened which resulted in her not speaking to me for a good 24 hours
Rather than pursue her and try to make up for who knows what I just let her be silent until she came to me to tell me what was bugging her
It was in my mind a very small thing but to her it was a very big thing
So I just listened and genuinely said I was sorry for my thoughtlessness and would earnestly try to do better next time and then she let go of it
Hope all of you are enjoying your summers
Gordie - well done handling the silent treatment. Actually, well done on everything. What you are doing is working, especially for you.
Gordie I have been thinking of you. My sitch escalated and my H is now saying he will be leaving. I was thinking about how things played out for you and wondering if that would ever happen to me. I am in the free fall now of not knowing and assuming the worst is yet to come.
I loved reading your update. I was so happy she held your hand. And you are so patient and kind and clear-headed. It really inspires me.
If you have the chance, stop by my thread to see my H's last letter. I was wondering if you agreed with my decision to not respond and then how I did say I was hurt and didn't want to talk. I was wondering how you translate your listening skills to letters -- and in this case, letter followed by a phone call when my H acted like the letter didn't happen.
Gordie, I am really happy to hear that you are at a point to where you can hang out with W without the eggshell feeling. That is actually something that I have been thinking about lately...that even now when I see W, it still feels like that. I know that it is normal in that W moved recently and that has caused a decrease in communication, but I really miss just being able to talk to her like a regular person. I am so happy to hear that you are reaching that point. Maybe that will be something possible for me in the future. I feel like, to a small degree, I am following along in your footsteps as you help pave the way for my understanding. I know that you are just living your life in the only way you can, but that in your postings and steadfastness, you are helping me too.
So you went on a family vacation where W wanted to spend time with you and held your hand? Dang! That sounds like quite the turnaround. In my own sitch I realize that things I used to see as positive signs don't seem to affect me anymore. I would notice every little thing and see it as improvement, or not. Now I realize that things are so all over the place that those things don't really matter enough to over analyze. But I also realize that letting of noticing those things might have also caused me to miss things that may or may not be improvements in my W. It probably doesn't matter if I notice them, things will play out like they play out and W either wants to be home and fix things between us or she doesn't, but I can't help but realize I've stopped looking for improvements. I realize that we all probably do that to some degree as we detach and GAL. I am sure you already know this since its your situation, but from an outside perspective I wanted to say that, that trip sounds like a big turnaround for your W. Of course she isn't done yet and theres a long way to go. But like you said, from where you were in January to where you are today is a HUGE difference. Keep on like you are with no expectations and just being the best you that you can be, but wow!
If its too personal or inconsequential then no need to share, but I am curious what happened between you and W that caused her not to speak to you for a day and that you apologized for.
@Gordie, @sjohns6: this is just my opinion here but I am going to be a downer/reality check here.
I would not spend ANY time reading tea leaves, interpreting behaviours for positive or negative, not try to "understand" what triggered anything. I believe when our spouses are in the throws of MLC disorder nothing makes sense, nor is motivated by normal emotional events. My latest example was my wife coming to dinner with me, hugs, even intimacy, holding my arm and leaning into me on walks back (hasn't happened in years), and then three weeks later with nothing going on (except being apart) announcing that we should go our separate ways. Can't say I was surprised, because the cycles will be there until fundamental and long term changes are made.
I think the basic being detached, not reacting, and at some level NOT caring about the good nor the bad is the only way to survive in the long term. As HB has said take what you get that is positive and don't read much into it. The roller coaster is still there.
Marvin, thats a good point. Thank you for the reminder. I get nothing from W so its easy for me to get swept up and anything offered. Right before W moved out I feel like I got better at not reading the tea leaves, but I think that now W has moved, getting worked up over a positive interaction will be harder not to do. Well, not just any positive interaction like a normal conversation, but something like what Gordie described probably would rope me back in. Again, thank you for that reminder.
DNJ Gerda Sjohn and MarvinF
Thanks for the encouragement and advice
Sjohn the incident was over food when I made dinner and the main dish was something kids and I love but w does not like which was not an issue during the period in which w was no longer joining family meals but she feels after six months I am still punishing her by doing so
Marvin agree with not following all the ups and downs and God knows that was me for the first year or so which is well recorded in all my threads but feel I am in a different place now where I no longer fear going home or worry about doing things I want which may or may not upset w
The things I am writing about are slower and more deliberate actions not words that are changing not day to day but more month to month which is a very slow process requiring as job reminds patience and more patience than has ever been required of me
I still of course react and over react at times but directionally continue to improve what I can control which is what I am contributing to the current dynamic
Wow, about the food? They pick interesting things to get up in arms about, don't they. You would think that she would realize that if you were going to punish her in some way, it probably wouldn't be by cooking a meal she didn't care for. I don't particularly care for brussel sprouts, but my wife would still cook them from time to time. I never thought she was punishing me for serving them. As a matter of fact, I would still tr and eat them because I know they are good for you. As a side note, when W was moving out and separating out our stuff, there were brussel sprouts in the fridge. I took them out of the crisper and told her she could have ALL of them, I did't need my half
Hi Gordie,
I don’t have much to say but wanted to stop by and say it sounds like you’re doing really well. Weird there is a food thing w so many of them. I wonder if that particular food is tied to a childhood memory or something similar. I saw some things like that w/my ex. You’re doing great, keep it up!
So w has been speaking very directly about enjoying the one on one and family time of late
And very indirectly about the things I have wanted
The first tiny hints of regret over OMs
And the most subtle suggestion that we should sleep in the same bedroom again
I have listened and let her say as much as she is comfortable saying but haven’t pushed for more
I of course want her to open up more
But know from experience this has to be at her pace and that when I press for more direct communication she retreats
All advice welcome
Your such a patient man. I wish i had your strength. Your doing well, keep it up, you doing brilliantly.
I have listened and let her say as much as she is comfortable saying but haven’t pushed for more
Gordie, this is interesting as long as it’s genuine. I think what you posted above was perfect. Not pushing and letting her talk as much as she is comfortable with gives her a safe place. How are you doing? I’m sure it’s not easy for you.
Gordie!!!! I don't understand why you are asking for advice at the end of a post where you describe the most perfect behavior a spouse could offer for an MLC on the way out of the tunnel.
You did everything perfectly.
In your writing, I always have this impression of this calm, totally unneurotic always-listening man with a beautiful soul and a joyful outlook on life -- I sort of think of you like Saint Francis, maybe even including the sandals! You know the prayer, "Stay awake, for you do not know when..." Well that to me is you, you are always AWAKE in that spiritual way. Even when you are suffering.
That is so inspiring to me.
I get a tiny glimmer in this post of yours that you are wanting to start pushing and that the advice you are asking for is just for us to say, no, don't push yet.
Not to get racy here, but there are times when waiting and going slow can be very exciting. So I would take that metaphor and run with it. Instead of seeing this waiting as possibly painful agony, see it as delicious agony.
Maybe if you read Hosea again -- Hosea waits on line with the other men who want to buy his W!!!! Talk about patience! But in doing so, he gets closer to God, and I imagine that after that kind of trust and self surrender and self sacrifice, and after some strangeness and awkwardness (what you are going through now and maybe for some time longer) the physical and emotional reunions with his actual W are equally mind-blowing.
That is what you are doing. Seems to me you are getting close, so just keep giving her a long long leash.
P.S. I had told myself that when I had to start a new thread, I had to write the faith story you asked for as the first post. I am not sure I have the time or gumption to do it with what is going on, but Job just told me to start a new thread, and I think it might be one of those times where I have to say yes to something my will says no to!
Gordie - Things are really starting to look up. Many of those small incremental positive steps that MWD spoke about in a solutions journal.
Letting her speak as much or as little as she wants is great. Continue to not push. Think squirrel and how fast she’d run away.
Speaking directly about enjoying one on one and family time, very good.
Indirectly about things you want, you are at least in the mix again. Hints of regret over OM, man that is going to be a big one for her. Stay quiet, and stay patient. She is moving along.
As for the subtle suggestion to sleep in the same bedroom again. I am not even going to ask if you want too, I know you do. It is a matter of when is the correct time.
I recall a post of your’s (slightly tongue in cheek) about how you hoped for a reconciliation full of passionate love making and how you were unfortunately on a different path. It does look like you are a bit further down that path.
I also remember some advice from your coach about make her beg for it.
My take is be patient and let her discuss it with you when she wants too. Be prepared to go as far as she wants in the discussion with out pushing for more - that also applies to the physical aspects of this paticular side of things.
Too vague? Probably not.
You know what your goals are. How you picture your restored marriage - I don’t think it is sleeping in separate rooms. There are many steps along the way. Getting back in the same bedroom is a big one.
Keep unwinding your defences that you had to build up. Keep slowly letting your guard down. Keep slowly letting her in. You will have emotions no doubt about that, keep them away from her. Act as if. Proceed as if you know that the outcome will be exactlly what you want it to be. Listen to your deep beliefs and not your fleeting emotions.
That goes not just for the negative emotions. If thing continue, espically when one bedroom is established, I imagine there will be a rush of positive emotions - don’t get lost in it. Continue to be patient and not push.
Gordie you are doing great. It must be hard to keep expectations at zero. In truth I think maybe having a few tiny expectations of W is proper now. Nothing huge, just little things that she knows you expect of her. Something she can strive towards keeping. Perhaps this is to soon, I do not know, only you can decide.
As always, and with much respect.
DnJ
I forgot about the food thing.
Thanks for sharing that Gordie, I was curious too.
There are many hot button topics that people get very defensive over - politics, reglion, parenting, and food - to name a few. The fact that some people will shame someone for eating at McDonalds because they think it is unhealthy for that person. They think they know better, and people should just listen to their wise council. Ha! I just push my own button!
I do share Kyh’s assessment. Children have powerful memories tied to food. Eating is something we do a lot, and as a kid I recall eat you vegetables there good for you. So if it is something traumatic, just another thing for the addled MLCer to reconcile.
I totally laughed our loud when sjohns6 said he let his W have his half of the brussel sprouts. I am still giggling about that.
Have a great day.
Scoobs not always as patient as I want to be but doing my best
Kyh I do think this is genuine and as things have been moving very slowly in the same direction and actions have spoken louder than words
Gerda thank you yes you are right I want someone to remind me that I have to keep taking this very slowly and at her pace despite my own desire to speed things up so live the reminder that a slow build up can be more exciting and rewarding
More later
Hi Gordie. I've been meaning to write to you on one particular topic for a while now but haven't.
You posted a while ago that your wife seems to be jealous of the attention you've been giving to the kids. I believe that this is probably a very real thing and something you should give some thought to. Since (as usual) I don't have much in the way of constructive advice for you, I'll tell you a story instead.
My daughter and I have always been very close - from the day she was born in fact. As she got older, she was my "adventure buddy" and we would do things together. At one point, my son started taking martial arts lessons on Saturday mornings. So to give my wife a break and allow her to luxuriate in a completely empty house, I'd take both kids in to town. Drop off son at his lessons, have breakfast at a local diner with my daughter, do the banking, pick up son and come home. My daughter and I both treasured those mornings spent together talking and doing the mundane.
After some time, my wife - perhaps projecting - told me that I was favouring one child over the other and that I should take my son out to breakfast every other week. He'd stopped martial arts at that point I believe. It was a painful exercise. My son is not a morning person. I learned that I would only get surly or angry responses to conversational questions until he'd eaten. I joked with him that I learned to keep my mouth shut until he'd had potatoes.
When both kids had moved out, my wife took over their place for breakfast, moving it to Sunday mornings. It became a tradition for us. One where I from time to time felt taken for granted for / taken advantage of as she would just assume that we would go out and that I would pay from my limited pocket money (we at this point were budgeting fairly carefully).
So - I wouldn't underestimate the power of a mother's jealousy of her children in creating tension in a relationship.
Just my 2 cents and perhaps something to discuss with your coach.
I have listened and let her say as much as she is comfortable saying but haven’t pushed for more
I of course want her to open up more
But know from experience this has to be at her pace and that when I press for more direct communication she retreats
All advice welcome
be honest.
be true to yourself.
keep validating.
keep being your awesome self.
you're doing great!
xoxoxo
Gerda and thank you for the reminder of Hosea which is beautiful on so many levels
DNJ I find it amazing how you are so thoughtful about dang near everything I think we are around the same age maybe you are a little older but I feel you are so much wiser
So yes need to take things slowly as Gerda also said not too vague and letting the guard down also very slowly this is very tricky as I have started to feel what others here have written about that when the walls come down a little those feelings of LBS anger and resentment also well up
I read a slightly tongue in cheek book called f*** feelings which was intentionally provactife not in that feelings are bad but as you remind they are all over the place and not good guides to life
I think there is a difference in the going with my gut title which is rooted in deeper beliefs and convictions than fleeting feelings that if you know what I mean
And yes trying to keep expectstions low still
Re food that one really surprised me so was clearly a blind spot and a reminder of the futility of mind reading and attempting to pre emptively fix what I think is broken
Andrew yes Butterfly and your comments about jealousy re children is another eye opener and have been thinking more about that one where I can see looking back more clearly
I think there has been damage done in her wanting a fatherly love she lacked and I could not provide to her despite my own intuitive efforts to do so but that I did provide to our children
Not sure how to dig out of that hole but not going there now but awareness of the issue is a big first step
Gordie
I have three points regarding your last posting.
1. Whenever she comes to you and opens up, she needs to feel heard. So reread the validation threads. Just like a WAS that has left you need to capitalise on those occasions which are fsrcsnd few between. With a live in MLCerthose other interactions can over cloud such moments and opportunities get missed.
To feel fully heard she probably would like you to share your reaction to what she said. I would refrain from that for the moment. Concentrate more on understanding what she's saying and letting her know that. Your side of things can be shared when conditions are better. One exception I would see is if she repeats an initiative to share your bed. That one you need to control and express your thoughts. Not indeptly, just to say that under current circumstances that may not be best. You know best how things really are. My viewpoint tells me not to rush that one, even though it is surely what you want long-term.
2. Keep a journal. Jot down things she says mainly into two categories
a) stuff she likes, wants, etc
b) stuff she dislikes.
Use this stuff to guide you in your interactions . Can also help with gift ideas. This is a tool mote for healthy Ms but could be helpful. I mentioned it in my last thread.
3. Reread Sandi's threads. WAW can say and do a lot to achieve what they want. Until undeniably proven by consistent actions over a prolonged period, take each step in the right direction with caution. Some are manipulative. Others just don't know fully what they want. Either way thread slowly. The advice given here about it being up to the WAS to prove themselves is not simply about who takes the first syeps.I believe the WaS has to undergo a process where they want to be with the lbs. If the way back is too easy, they avoid this decision process and risk decidin
What would it tske for you to be ready to accept her on your room again?
Best wishes
Gordie - thanks for the kind words.
I think we are close in age. I am 51 and I put you in the last half of 40’s. Story if I am wrong... I mean it was a typo, I put you in the first half of 40’s.
Going with your gut. I liked your title and understood you meaning. Lead by your convictions and beliefs not feelings, yep follow your gut.
Awareness is a big first step, be patient more will be revealed with time. Btw I am not sure it’s you that needs to dig out of that hole.
Roist and DNJ
Thank you
1 agree she needs to feel heard one of her biggest needs and one where I previously failed so totally agree which is why it takes such effort for me to just listen and keep my mouth shut
2 journaling very good idea and part of why I post here but I do not post all the details and more intimate stuff
3 I remain cautious and do believe her actions are sincere but it has been six months of her moving closer to me so feel whatever is going on is genuine and not manipulative
DNJ we are closer in age than you suspect
And point taken on who needs to dig out of what hole
Journaling
One morning she came into my room when I was still asleep
I sensed her presence and stirred and then she touched me and left
I accepted one of her invitations on your advice
It was an activity I would never choose
And was with some of her new friends
So none of them knew who I was
And they asked me
And I said I was her H
And they were very surprised
Said they did not know w was married
I just rolled with it and had a good time
Gordie - omg I am currently 50, not 51. Man I must be getting old, forgot my own age. When I saw my signature line I just laughed and shook my head.
Hey a new activity with W and at her invitation. I am thinking it probably felt a little weird in that situation. Good for you for handling it so well. And you say you even had a good time. I am happy for you.
Keep moving slowly, inch by inch.
Are your kids ready for school?
My two are all set. It is crazy! S17 is all outfitted with supplies for university. D16 has all her supplies set for grade 12. What the h3ll? Where is the last minute stress? The emergency run to the store for some binder they just can’t live without? Ha.
Well atleast they have messy room so they are normal teens for that part.
51 or 50 who is counting
Yes I knew it was going to be somewhat awkward
So just decided to go with the flow
Looked good was upbeat and cheerful and enjoyed myself
When she went to the powder room her friends who did not know she was married started asking me some questions but I just kind of laughed them off
Afterward she said she was glad that I had come and asked me how I felt
I said I appreciated the invitation and enjoyed myself
Yes kids are getting ready for back to school
Oldest to college
And then the younger ones still at home
W is reconnecting with kids more and being more active in back to school prep
No post vacation distancing so still moving in the right direction
Inch by inch
Patience patience patience
This really does take longer than you think
I was looking up at Mars the other week
And thinking of you praying
And just let my awe of the universe open me up
Wow, Gordie. It sounds like things are still going the right way. Thats great news. I know the reality of how slow it moves is probably hard to accept, but accept it we must.
What kind of questions did Ws friends ask that you laughed off?
My kids are almost ready for school too. Supplies are good, but I still need to get out to the uniform shop for their clothes. They are growing so fast I wanted to wait till the last minute to get them. I was afraid if I bought them too early that they'd be grown out of them by the time school started
I also have been watching Mars recently. Wonder if there was ever a time that we were all looking at the same time. Might be fun to schedule a time in particular that we all star gaze and contemplate the universe and reality. Building that universal bond!!
Hi Gordie,
Following along and it sounds like things are going well. Not to make too much of it but I was surprised to read she asked how you felt! Keep up the good work and patience!
The mention of Mars reminded me that there is a meteor shower peaking this weekend.
Yes the Perseid meteor shower on Saturday and Sunday. Nice thin moon and dark skies. I hope the smoke from the forest fires does not occlude too much starlight here.
D16 is going to a party on Saturday. I will be star gazing from midnight till I pick her up around 2:00am, smoke permitting. It would be great to have you guys and gals over. All sitting on the deck enjoying a drink and gazing to the night sky, slowly shrinking into insignificance while contemplating the unfathomable vastness and beauty that surround us.
I find much peace from that perspective. In awe of the universe, most apt.
Here is something for you, well all of you.
I am sure you can find Venus, and you know Mars. Next find Jupiter and maybe even Saturn. The rest are very difficult, some impossible to see with unaided eye. Mercury for example, that sun hugger, is so over powered by the Sun, hard to find.
If you connect the planets with an arc across the sky. That is the plane of our solar system. The edge of our flat disc.
Point an arm at the far left planet and arc it across the sky connecting the other planets you have found and continue around in the same sweep through the earth back to the start. That is where the solar system disc cuts through earth, not the way you probably expect.
The planets all follow along that arc. The stars, and the rest of the universe (aside from rogue comets, meteors, and such), follow circles around Polaris (North Star) for the northern hemisphere.
Of course planets do not travel across our sky and stars do not travel in circles. Our view of the universe is not “reality”, it is not even the same for everyone. It is our perception of the universe based on the earth’s rotation and ones location.
Something magical in realizing the reality beyond perception.
There is also a magic in realizing the reality your spouse perceives is different than your own. Everyone sees things a little differently, for some a lot differently. Looking beyond your perceptions in an attempt to see the truth puts one in awe of their own reality.
Magical.
btw the fact that W inquired on how you felt jumped right off the page at me. Pretty good stuff.
I do agree with kyh, shouldn’t make too much of it. You are a patient man Gordie. Keep it up.
Sjohn
They asked q like how long have you known w
How long have you been married
Kyh and DNJ
That is one of her new behaviors
Every day or sometimes more than once a day she asks me how are you
DNJ
Yes the universe is magical
I think I need a telescope
Not sure why but have been spending a lot more time star gazing
Journaling
So a not close friend to whom I have not spoken of my situation but is close enough to have observed a lot over the past two years asks me
I heard a rumor that you and w are getting d and wanted to ask you if that was true
And I said no not that I was aware of and I left it at that without elaborating
Cannot control the rumor mill
Good for you Gordie. You cannot control that darn rumour mill.
Spending more time star gazing, sounds good in my book.
Amazing how many people never look up.
The smoke has cleared, the sky is clear. I am looking forward to the meteor shower.
You plan on watching? Maybe inviting kids and W?
Just asking, not pushing.
W asking how are you. That’s a much better behaviour.
DNJ
Yeah I hate being the subject of rumor but o well
There were times when I wanted to tell everyone because I was tired of the cover up
But am so glad that I did not
It would have only made things messier
For some reason I said I would only acknowledge publicly once the d was signed
And we never got there
Re meteors
It was too darn cloudy last night
But maybe tonight
Re asking how are you
I still usually say good or fine how are you
Still do not feel comfortable being more open and intimate
Nor does she
So we mirror each other in letting our guard down
Inch by inch
Snails deinitely move faster
Better it being a rumour than the truth!! But still I understand. Remember you haven't seen this guy in a long time and his news could date back to when ye were nearly there. Regardless best yo brush it off without fanning the flames.
For me that little how are you is not so little. Because it is missing in my situation. It shows an interest. It is by no means ground shattering and can be somewhat superficial, it is still worth noting. Every now and again elaborate a good response maybe even exaggerating a recent experience:
"I'm great and delighted with how I beat my pb time this morning when running"
"I'm excited about the evening the my mate has organised next weekend"
You get the idea. In essence you give a glimpse of a better you.
All these little things are important to observe and encourage they are only signs. Positive signs albeit, still just signs. In themselves they don't mean much. Added together and built on consistently they form a foundation. Until then no expectations.
Best wishes
Roist
Thank you for the reminder that rumor is better
And interesting how you all keyed into the how are you
Trying to let more in and out
But the walls are still up for both of us
Expectations creeping up too
So sometimes bugs me when she is just wrapped up in herself and pays me no heed
Reminder that this is non linear and to be patient
We have allowed ourselves to separate and be individuals again
But it lays bare the differences between us
Example is parenting
I expect a lot more of my older kids to take more responsibility for themselves
W criticizes this as bad parenting
Another example is communication
I am direct
And she is indirect
I stopped doing things for her
I have started again but only if she asks directly
But she finds it excruciatingly hard to do that
Whereas before if she just hinted at something I would do it
Now she hints and I will not do it or I will ask do you want me to do x and she will say no but all her non verbal communication says yes
Like when she was hinting about sleeping together
I want her to say or act clearly on what she wants
Instead I get ambiguity
I second guess myself and what the heck I am doing at times
Yes I want to forgive and reconcile
But I cannot do that as a party of one
Yes I want to forgive and reconcile
But I cannot do that as a party of one
Dear Gordie! You re not a party of one in that! You definitely could not do it as a party of one. That's humanly impossible. That's what Christ is for. Just ask him everyday, and tell him you can't do it. Tell him to sand away that hard layer of expectation and that other hard layer of doubt. Ask Him for patience when you have none. Tell him you can't forgive and that you know He can.
Lately I have been realizing so much that when we are in exile like this, from our marriages, the return from exile is not the restoration of our marriage, as I had thought. It's the decision to continue to do God's will. If you think of someone living through the Holocaust or through some of the atrocities going on in the world today, how did they continue to walk in faith? Not by seeing their circumstances change.
I think I have realized that I never really wanted to be obedient to God unless it meant I could get what I want. Now I am investigating what it really means to walk in the light even when darkness surrounds me. I don't know what is going to happen but I do know that God gives me a courage I never had when I think in this way.
Anyway, the point is, you are not alone and you can never rely on yourself to be able to forgive. Maybe reread Paul talking about still doing the things he hates and what conclusion he comes to?
My son keeps coming in to show me designer clothes he wants to sell on eBay and I keep trying to write this so I had better shut it down and give that boy my full attention even though it's almost 2 in the morning -- or so that we will both go to sleep!
Gordie
There were always and always will be differences. Fact of life. It's the distance between ye that enhances them now or at least highlights them.
No one likes criticism and I am sure your W doesn't make it constructive. That makes it harder to take.But peel back your initial reaction to her and ask is there any truth or positive motivation in what she says. For the record, based on my following your posts, I don't believe that you are wrong in your approach to kids. You seem level headed and fair. But I have learned that one being right doesn't automatically mean the other is wrong. In relationships and parenting things are rarely black and white.
Those emotional walls!With detachment and self protection it is normal and even essential to have these on place. At the moment I believe mine are higher and stronger than those of W. Yours could be too. Piecing is supposedly so hard because those walls have to come down and we are forced to face a lot. I think you should consider placing some windows that open in your walls. Open them when safe and appropriate to do so. But you are not in piecing yet, do keep the walls in place IMO.
I would be wary though of you projecting your vision of how things should be to allow reconciliation. By all means be aware and adamant about the main points, but I believe many LBSs try yo lay down their way forward and if reality wanders slightly from that plan, no forward movement is allowed. You prefer her to communicate directly. Understandable. Try to foster that by encouraging and rewarding it. But don't insist on perfect communication all the time. At her best W wasn't/isn't perfect. Sometimes not perfect is as good as it gets. Sometimes the WAS should be given the benefit of some leeway or deviation from the ideal. After all they are only human and not at their best. That doesn't mean the effort/motivation wasn't genuine. All that being said I do believe the onus should remain on the WAS to make consistent efforts towards improvement in the first place. Just don't block everything imperfect as sometimes that is the best that we (or they) can do .
My points are general and not specific to you nor your post, but I thought they are good reminders.
One point I would make is that you seem frustrated when W doesn't act the way that you want/EXPECT. There ate times when their behavior is distant. That isn't nice to experience but it is part of your current reality. Accept it and try not to be so disappointed when she isn't the way you want her to be. I fully understand those frustrations. I imagine your expectations are too high. Look into that.
Best wishes
Gerda and Roist
Thank you for listening to my rant
Sometimes I just have to vent
Safer to do here than elsewhere
Yes Gerda I am not alone
I am having one of those dry spells
Where I pray and and pray and pray and feel nothing
I know this too is normal and part of the faith journey
I have had periods in my life where I have felt God in a very real way
But this is not one of them yet as you remind we must persist
And yes Roist
You may have meant your comments to be general
But feel you have experienced so much of the same
That it seems very specific
I read what you wrote and said
Walls yes
Imperfect communication yes
Expectations yes
Frustration yes
All of it yes I know you are right
I guess I had a flashback of the bad old days
I came home yesterday
And w was eating dinner with the kids
I sit down and she avoids eye contact
She will talk to kids
But not to me
In my head I am saying really
Not this again
And then after I wrote the above post
She was a little more interactive
One day at a time
One day at a time, and one day different than the other. After such a long journey, with all the ups and down, it´s not a small achievement.
All my best wishes for your family, Gordie.
Gordie:
I'm sorry it is still so tough, but you know that. Again, all you can decide each and every day is whether you can take it on that day.
You know, you don't have to let her little games get to you. You don't have to notice the eyes, or feel the pain of the dispassionate voice or the cold shoulder. YOU can make the decision that you are not going to let those things bother you. You have been to a circle of hell that few can imagine (I still cringe at her taking the children around OM and having them wear clothes he bought, etc). If you can survive those things, you can make it through this.
The only person you control in this is you and your feelings. If you can't change your situation, your only choice to maintain sanity is to change the way you feel about it.
I once read this post someone with an MLCer wrote. They said if you can take the bad stuff and instead replace it with an image of her sitting on a park bench thinking through the things she needs to think through and how she is going to get back to you all, then it is a lot more bearable. I do that sometimes. Instead of the affairs and the lying and the abandonment of the kids, I just think of him sitting on a park bench, doing what he can to work through his problems. It may not help him, but it sure does make me feel a lot better about the situation.
Always #teamGordie
Neffer thank you for the encouragement
One art yes yes yes thank you for the reminders
Those hellish things really happened
And this is just minor stuff
But I guess I too get d b fatigue
But reminds me all the clothes purchased by OM are gone
So I told boss what was going on a year ago
When I was missing work for divorce reasons
I had not updated him and he asked me
I said
There is a long story but let me just give you the facts
Affair is over
Divorce is dropped
I hope we can rebuild
But a lot of damage has been done
It is complicated
He wished me well
Oh yes, DB fatigue. I've got it bad. It's just funny because you are at a place so many of us long to be in but you seem more fatigued than when you were more in hell! But I guess that's how it works.
Here's something about speaking life and not death over your M from a blog called Grace, Love, Life.
It's like if half a couple says: "We are not married, we are separated." But the other spouse says: "But we ARE STILL married." Different language is used, offering a different perspective or 'truth'. Instead of continuously repeating: 'We are separated.' I say; 'We are on the path of restoration.' OR 'I am still married!'
Here is an example {pretend} scenario:My husband comes to get the kids for his time. I smile, and am friendly. He gives a slight smile and happens to tell me he got paid and made a deposit into our joint bank account. They leave quickly.
I CAN FOCUS ON the fact that he did not invite me along.
I can go to my sad place and cry out to God in despair that my husband is still not home...when will he be home? Maybe never. Probably NEVER! Our kids need more than a part-time, dead-beat dad!
He smiled so arrogantly just cause he works and got some $$$! He's probably going to take them out to eat--must be nice not ever having to cook a real meal and clean it up! He'll probably give an excessive tip just to show off.
Look how he just rushed out cause he can't even stand me.
I can't wait anymore, he is NEVER coming home! I'm filing for divorce myself 1st thing tomorrow!!!!
He is such a ________!
How could I have EVER married him.
What a mistake!
WHY is this happening TO me!?!
God you are not even helping me! I guess I heard You wrong and You are not going to ever restore my marriage!?
OR I CAN FOCUS ON THIS:
I was friendly, pleasant and smiled at my husband.
I noticed he smiled back and I was reminded of how much I love his smile.
His body language was relaxed and open, his face was light when he told me about his paycheck.
Praise the Lord, my husband was open and honest about his income.
Praise the Lord he still desires to provide for us and wanted me to know that. Six months ago he had no income.
Thank You Lord for providing through my husband. I am so glad he is involved in our children's lives. Our children really need their father and he is important to them. Their relationship is very important.
Thank You God for turning the father's heart toward his children and our children's heart toward their father.
Thank You God that this exchange went peacefully and stress free.
Thank You God for moving in my husband's heart. I know You are working.
Thank You that he is prompt and respects other people's time.
Thank you that he values every minute with our children and will probably treat them to dinner and feed them well. They will enjoy that. I know he likes to leave big tips and bless the wait-staff.
Thank you for his generous spirit. Lord, bless MY husband.
Lord, I want to thank You in advance for the restoration of my marriage.
You are a good God.
The first scenario is focused on DEATH and speaks it. The second scenario is focused on LIFE and speaks it. It's NOT living in denial. It's not 'not' facing reality. It's following God's word and focusing on what is good and positive. It is blessing and not cursing. THAT is speaking LIFE.
Gerda
Thank you
I needed that
I got really bad d b fatigue a year ago
Needed to take a break
They say this is a marathon
But in a marathon you know there are certain miles where you feel the fatigue
You expect it and train for it
The MLC marathon is trickier
Duration unknown
Destination unknown
So okay to get fatigued some times
Acknowledge
Reset and refuel
Press on
Thank you, Gerda. I needed that too!!
So it was a weird week
A lot of the cold shoulder
I did not ask why
Did my best to just keep moving forward
And so Friday rolls around
W asks me to go out on a date
I treat it like one of those early dates with a new girl
Be upbeat and positive and make her laugh
Avoid any controversial topics
Listen and ask questions and try to get to know her better
Be a gentleman
Open doors
Gaze into each other s eyes
Let the drinks flow freely
Drive her home
She says she drank too much with a laugh
And really enjoyed the evening
Said goodnight with a hug and a small kiss
One day at a time
Hi Gordie,
just wanted to stop in and say I love your posting style. Clear and concise.
One similarity I've noticed between your sitch and mine is that we communicate differently than our W's. It's important to be aware of b/c what you mean may not be what was heard.
I don't think we are supposed to link other sites, but this guy has had MWD on his show twice, it can be found on Spotify. Their discussions were great to listen to. His name is Neil Sattin if you want to listed to his convos with MWD or look up his communication guide.
It's always nice to hear MWD, that lady has her stuff together.
Gordie. I just wanted to congratulate you on the date. Not because it is a sign of your situation turning/improving (though it is memories like that which can lead to that. No I commend you for being able to put your best shoe forward after a week of low quality interactions.
You could easily of been spiteful and either rejected the offer in a non DB manner or you could have harboured negative thoughts throughout the night which would have impacted ye both negatively.
So fair dues to you. That shows character.
I will add though that you don't have to accept any date offers if you don't want to.
I may not be around much for another while, but I will be thinking of you. Best wishes
Over and roist
Thanks for the continued encouragement
The resentment is sometimes there
And there are triggers for it
But I tend to resolve it within myself
And do not express it
So another milestone
Better late than never
I asked my doc for an STD test
First time for everything
Gordie - oh boy. The asking doc for an std test. I sure remember that. An other milestone - true. I sense some humor from you. Good thing! It is aggravating, I know. Humor helps.
I do hope the tests are all negative.
You are doing really good. Keep moving forward.
I think you're doing a really nice job of straddling that fine line between trying to keep some connection to the m and focusing on you.
And yes, ignore her moods and any antics. Make sure you do a few things each day that bring you joy.
Keep up the good work.
I need to get tested too. Being lazy is easy.
Glad to hear you're resolving the resentment internally. That's something I need to remember as well.
Expressing things in a negative way has yet to help me.
Ugh - the STD test. I made the appointment with the doctor very quickly after BD. I sobbed through the blood draw for my HIV test. Everything came back negative. My hopes and prayers are that your results are also negative. You need to do this to take care of yourself and your children. Stark reality there, Gordie. Nice job on the date
xoxoxo
Enjoying these last days of summer
Taking kids to college
Getting other kids ready for school
Lots of time together with w and kids
And the awkwardness is gone
I was reading blue wave
And realizing that reconciliation is messy
And not what I pictured so
I feel like I have turned my own corner
That maybe I really have saved my m
I have been reluctant to say that to myself
Due to the fear that this could all fall apart again
But something in my gut says that it is time to put away that fear
We never had the talk I was waiting for
But realizing maybe that is because of me not her
She has said things like
I could never give myself fully to OM because I realized I still loved you
And it is I who could not continue that conversation
I think she is loving me in the best way she knows how right now
And I think she is willing to sleep together again
Based on what she has said and how she looks at me and touches me
But it is I who I had not been ready for that yet
She has let her guard down more than me
So it is now I who have more decisions to make
About how this unfolds and at what pace
I still feel the need to take this slowly
One day at a time
Gordie,
I still have some regrets from my relationship with my WW and one prior relationship where issues led to pain for me.
Are you dealing with these issues, your fear of being vulnerable? Being vulnerable is being intimate, and that why affairs are so horrible. The true intimacy is in jeopardy.
I ask if you're dealing with them bc for me, I never dealt with them. I ignored and evaded my pain and it affe ted my MR negatively.
Listen to me, a rookie, offering one of the vets advice...haha.
I hope you get to that point of comfort and intimacy.
Gordie - There is a very dear friend of mine who happens to be Muslim who taught me an important phrase that I use a fair bit.
in sha Allah
He and I have different interpretations of this because he, while he jokes that he is destined for hell for his sins some of which I know of, he is rather devout. I myself am agnostic. I neither believe in, nor dis-believe in God. I do have a lot of respect for and a certain amount of jealousy of those like you who are people of Faith.
His interpretation is that God has a plan for us and that sometimes we are too stupid to see it and follow it.
My interpretation and why I keep using the phrase is that I believe that things happen to us from outside forces that we have no control over and that it is up to us to accept that.
For me it means that sometimes we just need to take chances accepting the outcome whatever it may be. Like jumping off the dock into water of unknown temperature and uncertain depth. We gasp when first we are plunged but then we deal with it.
And yes, I deal far too much in metaphors.
in sha Allah
#TeamGordie
Over
Thanks I do not consider myself a vet but maybe to others I am
You are right to ask if I have faced my issues
I ask myself the same question
And I answer in the affirmative
I feel like many others I find myself 2 years after b d
A better version of myself
I do not wish this on anyone
But yes it did not kill me but made me stronger
I am much more aware of my shortcomings
And have sought to better myself
I am more aware of my feelings
Both the good and the bad
And the fear
I have dealt with these within myself
And with friends
And professional help
I have no desire to return to the old m
And even if I wanted to it would be impossible
Neither she nor I are the same
And never will be
I do not want to declare mission accomplished
Because saving my m
Seems like an open ended process
One that could turn sour In the future
But that was the case before
But I just did not realize it
Andrew
Thank you for being a faithful supporter for so long
I agree with both interpretations you presented
Both that God has intentions beyond our understanding
And that there are forces beyond our control
And so much of life is what we make of it
We all come here because we want to save our m
And want support and guidance in that endeavor
And eventually discover we can only control ourselves
And forge our own glorious path
And the spouse will choose his or her path
Which may or may not intersect again with ours
Hello Gordie
I think you are doing awesome.
I see you hesitantly going forward trying to ensure solid footing. Wise to see how things unfold and at what pace.
However, sometimes a leap of faith is required. I believe a leap is a prerequisite for progress and growth, you reach a point where it has to happen. You’ll know when.
As I said - doing awesome.
DNJ
Thanks
So something I have learned these past two years
Thanks to many
Including Mach1 and Roist and Cali
Is that a lot of my actions are driven by fear
Which is not a great way to live
So here I am at this new LBS phase
Maybe I am afraid of getting hurt again
Maybe I am afraid I cannot trust my instincts
Maybe I am afraid she will change her mind
Maybe I am afraid that we will never fully reconcile
Maybe I am afraid to truly forgive
And let down my guard
Need to figure out my fear and face it
Address what the heck is holding me back
Trusting in God
Almost 2 years since b d
What a long strange trip it has been
Maybe you are spending too much time comparing the new relationship to the old one, instead of guiding the new one where you would like to take it.
Gordie,
I have faith in you, i.e., that you will face your fears and come to understand that you will be okay no matter the outcome. You have nothing to fear, but fear itself. A large majority of those who come here are fixers and we want to fix things, but in the cases of MLC, we can't fix them, they have to fix themselves and that fear raises its ugly head because we have absolutely no control over what they say, do or think. We can only control how we react and, of course, our own lives.
Learn to trust yourself. If you aren't sure about something, step back and sit a spell. Sit quietly and the answers will come...but they will not come if you try to force them to reveal themselves. Trust the man upstairs, for he gives us lessons each and every day and he will not give you more than you can handle at any given time.
Gordie -- are you standing out of obedience to God?
Or only if W comes back by a certain time?
I had thoughts for you but maybe they aren't relevant if it's the second option. Or maybe I will post them to you anyway as I prefer option one.
My H was really nice for an evening before we left for this trip. We talked about poetry and all kinds of things all evening. He kept showing me things and playing me videos of poets or speakers, saying things like, "Oh, you have to see this one." He shared the poem below with me. (Next day he withdrew, hard. And asked for money.) I immediately thought of posting it to you and to DnJ. Here it is.
Lost
Stand still. The trees ahead and bushes beside you
Are not lost. Wherever you are is called Here,
And you must treat it as a powerful stranger,
Must ask permission to know it and be known.
The forest breathes. Listen. It answers,
I have made this place around you.
If you leave it, you may come back again, saying Here.
No two trees are the same to Raven.
No two branches are the same to Wren.
If what a tree or a bush does is lost on you,
You are surely lost. Stand still. The forest knows
Where you are. You must let it find you.
-- David Wagoner
One art
That is a lovely thought
That I can guide this (not control this) in the way that I want
To build the new relationship
Small change over the past month
Is w started calling me once a day at work to say hello
We would chat for 5 to 15 minutes
And then she stopped
And I missed it so I said to myself
Just pick up the phone and call her
And now sometimes she calls me
And sometimes I call her
Building a new relationship
Where we care about each other s lives again
Job
Thank you for your faith in me
Those words mean a lot
You are right that I am a fixer
Who cannot fix her
W has said and acted as if she has come to that place that I so pined for
To see that yes she is in pain
And struggling with the past
And yes she did feel trapped
And that she was dying
And that yes she felt like she was not free to explore the person she wants to be
In the institution of m
Being married to me
But after running away from me
And into the arms of OM
It made things worse for her
And yes she is not fully baked
As her focus is still mostly on herself
And as Cali said
It is good for her stay focused on herself right now
I cannot control or accelerate that
Breathe
Pray
One day at a time
O Gerda
Such a simple question
But a complicated answer
Standing out of obedience
Or until she comes back by a certain time
Standing for many reasons
Yes out of obedience to God
And that it is the right thing to do
And out of duty
And commitment to the vows we made
But also because I still love her after all that has happened
The beautiful and intelligent and complicated woman that she is
Yes she still fascinates me
And I still believe in her
Yes I loved the old version
And I still love the new version
Even if not all the things she has done
But also because of my children
And believe that an intact family is better for them
Where mom and dad are both present daily
Thank you for the question
And the lovely poem
An excellent answer Gordie.
Keep standing strong.
So I am away on a business trip
And talking to my kids on speaker phone
I wish them good night and tell them I love them
And then I say good night to w
I pause and do not say I love you
Because we are no longer in the habit of saying that
And we hang up
And then she calls again later about something else
And she says goodnight I love you
And I say I love you too
Maybe it is okay to say that again
Gordie, I think I know the answer.
Do you love her?
I know your situation is complicated. For now, just right now, keep it simple.
Do you love her?
Then tell her.
As habits go, saying I love you is a pretty nice one.
She is saying it. The pursuit / distance dance has lessened, maybe not gone but greatly dimished.
To me it appears she has turned back towards you. For this I do not see it as too much pressure, not anymore.
We are creatures of habits. The new R is finding it’s footing, great time to create habits you want.
You are doing so very well.
I wish my W would listen and hear my love for her, and show her’s for me.
I hope someday that will happen.
Sadly, I have no expectations at this time.
You are an excellent example of perseverance, faith, and possible outcomes.
I think you feel, know, and already believe. However a little validation and encouragement never hurts.
How many nights are you away?
Interested in how the next call goes.
Gordioioioiooooooo! What in tarnation is going on?! She said she loves you!!!!! That is amazing!!!!!
I am a little mystified by your reticence. Imagine a year ago, if you had known she would call you back specifically to say that. Are you afraid of being humiliated? Or hurt again? Don't strategize. God is not only okay with our potential humiliation but offers us power through it.
“My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
I am not saying full restoration is near. I have no idea what your future holds, though from the outside it looks pretty amazing to me. But I am positive that you can be bold about responding in love, I am positive that power will come to you if you allow yourself to be weak in that way. It may not be full DB but you are not at that stage anymore. Your W needs your vulnerability, your love and your protection. Even if she stomps on it again. That's okay. This is between you and God, not you and W. You don't have to get crazy with declarations of love, but be bold and brave, don't let fear of the consequences drive you.
Now that’s encouragement!
But I am positive that you can be bold about responding in love, I am positive that power will come to you if you allow yourself to be weak in that way. It may not be full DB but you are not at that stage anymore. Your W needs your vulnerability, your love and your protection. Even if she stomps on it again. That's okay. This is between you and God, not you and W. You don't have to get crazy with declarations of love, but be bold and brave, don't let fear of the consequences drive you.
I am an outsider in your conversation here, but I have to jump in and disagree, sorry Gerda. This is hope talking and I am not sure it is necessarily good for Gordie nor for his W for him to, as they say, drive ahead of his headlights. He did respond when she said it, he did not hold out. Reading his story reserve is not only called for, but downright REQUIRED. Not to say this is not positive, nor that it won't end positively. But right now, from his own description, this is very early tender shoots of something new.
I go back to what everyone says: this is like starting a brand new relationship. Would you jump into declaring your love full force with someone new at the very beginning? Or would that be out of scope and a little frightening.
Gordie, imho, is doing great. Its a hard task to walk that delicate line and he is like a master tight rope walker, not falling while also juggling a couple of cats!
sorry I'm on the same side as marvin here --- she said it first so ok to say it back if you mean it, but remember, this is a NEW relationship with someone who looks and sounds like your wife, but is still figuring out who she is right now.
Gordie you're doing exactly what you should be doing, imho. I'm glad you didn't say it on speaker phone. I'm glad she called, said it first and you said it back.
Slow and steady buddy. Slow and steady. keep following your gut.
#TeamGordie100%
Hi, Everyone -- I know very well what the DB strategy is. I started out as a DB-er five years ago but then I became a Christian and realized that there is a Venn diagram, with one circle as Christianity and one as DBing, and they have a beautiful intersection area. But they are not the same thing. I posted as a Christian speaking to a Christian, what I said would not apply if you are standing for a different reason. And I know it sounds insane if you are not a Christian, I remember. I don't know if my marriage will ever be restored, but I daily experience God's grace in surrendering my desire for restoration to his Will for my life.
Gordie, you have a black belt in standing. You are not going to start writing long love letters and begging and pleading at this point. You don't need to be reminded not to.
I think you know what I meant, but in case you didn't -- I was only encouraging you not to be afraid to say I love you back if you hear it from W, I was encouraging you to be fertile soil when she tries to plant a seed and to walk in God's love. You sounded defeated in your post. I was speaking Christian encouragement because of what you said in response to my question a couple days ago.
Friends, standing out of obedience to God to get closer to Him is a very different project than standing out of obedience to Michele Wiener Davis to get your spouse back.
Gordie is a standing genius, he knows how to DB,and he has all of you to remind him.
Sometimes for a Christian, it's good to hear from someone who lives radically devoted to Christ.
Gordie can figure out which part of the Standing Venn Diagram he needs at any given moment!
Gordie,
You are doing quite well w/what you've been given to work with. Trust you gut instinct and if you aren't sure about something, then do nothing. Step back when things are troubling you and allow time to settle the dust just a bit. My mantra has always been "sit quietly and the answers will come".
Your wife is slowly, and I do mean slowly, thawing out a bit. Be patient and do not push too hard at the moment. Show her that you are a safe to talk to. When they poke their heads out of the "fog of confusion", they are like skittish kittens. You have to go slowly and gently to get them to come to you. You've been doing this...keep up the good work.
Ishkabibble, I think more than anyone here that I've seen you have a gut instinct for how these things should go. You often express doubt, but I think deep down you have this. In case you really are helped by all of our annoying butting in, I'm with the others. Hold back a little. It hasn't been that much time. I think the work really belongs to her to bring this back together and until she is pulling the heaviness of that load, you can't tell how genuine it is. Also, she seems to like what she can't have, so don't let her know she has you too quickly. Sure, give a little reassurance, as you did, but don't overdo it.
Gordie and others, Is it fairly easy for a WAW to undue a D filing? WAW filed and I have been 180ing by being laid back and just realizing there is nothing I can do to convince her to change her mind, so I have a let her go mindset. Gordie, the fact that you've gotten your WAW to w/d the D filing seems like an amazing accomplishment!
Sure you can almost always dismiss a case as the filer, but I think you are asking how you get her to do it. That my friend, is DB and the recipe for it is case-specific.
Yes, that is the biggest mystery. Been trying different strategies from DB book. WAW filed in July but it has been radio silence since. I think I egged her on by not giving her information on my financials for her “thinking through divorce matters”, saying I was not comfortable doing that and she would get this information anyway when she files.
DNJ and Gerda thank you for the encouragement and yes Gerda I get what you are saying
One thing you wrote really struck me
Am I afraid of being humiliated
I never asked myself that question and there is a part of me that answers no she has already done the worst
But a part of me answers yes at the prospect of a really bad sequel
Living in the present and time diminish that fear but good to acknowledge it
I have gained more peace with uncertainty
Reminds me of Moses wandering around in the desert and never reaching the promised land
Marvin butterfly job and oneart
Thanks for your sage advice and support for my caution and go slow approach
Of course I appreciate all the advice
The contradictory advice is often the most illuminating
Because it show me there are many options
Yes that I have options and power and license
Black
I followed the advice here
I let her do the work to file
I did nothing to stand in her way
She filed without telling me
And a year later she withdrew it without telling me either
My L notified me of both actions
You cannot make your w drop it
You can only control you
Your last line is the best advice on this entire site...You can only control you.
Stand strong and keep us posted.
Journaling
There have been no more ILYs
But more incidental touching
Continued acts of initiation and connection
To which I am receptive
She is sharing more about herself
And some of her new dreams and aspirations
She is asking me more about my work and safe things like that
We have been able to discuss back to school without conflict
She is cooking and cleaning more
And is more engaged with the kids
One slight error
She asked me for advice
I told her what I thought
She did not like what I told her
I did not apologize
Some ensuing frustration on her part
And then she recovered and let it go
Thank you, Gordie. How far did you go in the divorce process before withdrawal? I feel as though my wife wants to see her “payout”, because I was not giving her my financial information unless she would file.
We spent a year negotiating our settlement
It just had to go through a final administrative step
Then she dropped it
Why are you withholding financial info
Whether you are staying together or getting divorced
She has a right to that info
Gordie,
Following along, wow your a true H and dad.
After my mediation I can see W truly still cares
As much W screamed and yelled We will never be together
W wishes she could move across country not to see my face.
Then W cried because I am ill I have MS and we never know.
I wanted to ask how do you do it with the kids. How are the kids
Handling if mom and dad reconcile.
My d10 says please mom don't you deserve better. We deserve better
I Also know d10 is hurting and at this moment d10 not liking W very much.
How do support your children's feelings and thoughts but in other hand W also.
Thank you, Gordie.
Good question: she just asked me for my pension information in a random email. I wrote lovingly that I was not comfortable with that because she would be getting it anyway when she filed along with all the other information we would need to divide up. She is only asking for part of the picture and needs to see for herself we divide credits and debits up. Giving her just the credits at the time was in my opinion not an action which I thought was appropriate.
Hi Gordie
Just dropping by, thinking about you.
I like how you handled the error.
She asked for advice, you gave some. No big deal. You have to make some errors, it is how you learn. Besides it helps her too, she had to figure out how to work through being frustrated.
You are doing awesome. You have quite a list of positive interactions.
How do you feel? Are you unwinding a bit? Are kids?
Marina
I am so sorry for your diagnosis
Re w and kids
At the beginning I was trying to help w with kids
I took the advice here and stepped back
It is her r with the kids not mine
That was sound advice
Some of my kids wanted nothing to do with her
And I needed to let that happen
Despite w getting mad at me for not intervening
How can you let them treat me like this
As if it was all my fault
So what I learned is that kids will follow my example
As I have let my guard down
So have the kids
Black
I do not know all your details
But it does not seem right to me
You have all the financial info
You should give it to her
DNJ
Thanks for checking in on me
Things still inching along
I got another unsolicited ILY
Which is still awkward for both of us
W surprised me
We received an invitation to a couples party
I said nothing about it
Actually assumed we would not go
And then w accepted
We have not been seen socially as a couple
In a long time
Gordie
Here is just a little observation:
The issues with formatting posts on this board are well and truly resolved. They are over and everybody else has gone back to writing posts using punctuation. Everybody except you.
You got terribly burned by the boards misbehaving. You learned how to get around the failures. You made it work.
Now you needn't do that any more. You can go back to the old, more productive, way of writing - but you haven't. Why is that?
Is that how you are IRL too?
IRL I use punctuation
I adapted to a problem and found
I like the freedom of writing differently here
And it is easier on my phone
But I am happy to change
If people find it irritating
It's like reading haiku.
Athough I am all for the art of the written word, I would prefer the punctuation.
Gordie, Gordie, Gordie -- your posts are heaven! Never change the style! I feel like I am in your mind when I read your posts, and that your mind is beautiful. I read your posts with great anticipation BECAUSE of your style of writing.
I teach writing, and I would give you an A for posts.
And I imagine that IRL you are just as wonderful, direct, kind and true.
Sometimes I gotta shake my head at folks here. Everyone is a director!
I often wish that the kids would be very clear about not wanting to talk to H. They share privately with me all that stuff but rarely show him. It makes it harder for him to see clearly what he is doing to them. So in a way you are lucky with that too.
I am so happy she said ILY again and said yes to the party. Awkward was good, exciting, full of anticipation when you first met and everything was new. Let it be that way now.
To me it does not seem like inching. It is a matter of months and so much keeps happening. To me it is a flood.
In honor of those who don't get your posting style, I will post a haiku about floods (real ones and yours) for you --
After the floods
a new song
for the river.
- Michael McClintock
Gordie is the best.
Gerda
Thank you for appreciating my style
Apologies if it annoys some
So our couples date
Friends offered to pick us up
But w wanted us to go alone
Long drive and w talked to me the whole way
She opened up
She said I am no longer angry at you
I see now why certain things happened the way they did
And that it was not your fault
The party was fun
We both had a good time
There was no physical touch
But we did sit next to each other
Party went late into the night
And neither of us felt any urgency to leave
We were both comfortable with us being there together
That is great Gordie. I am very happy for you.
Hi Gordie,
It's been awhile since I've posted but I've been following along. You're doing a great job and I'm glad to see how things are unfolding.
Gordie
Here is just a little observation:
The issues with formatting posts on this board are well and truly resolved. They are over and everybody else has gone back to writing posts using punctuation. Everybody except you.
You got terribly burned by the boards misbehaving. You learned how to get around the failures. You made it work.
Now you needn't do that any more. You can go back to the old, more productive, way of writing - but you haven't. Why is that?
Is that how you are IRL too?
I like the way he writes, honestly. And this is coming from a private school, English scholarship winner who enjoys writing well, even in text messages. It's just different and to me it's cool.
Anyways Gordie, just wanted to check in on your sitch. Unfortunately I have no magic potion for you, and DB'ing is something you're far better at than I am. So here I am just saying hi and I'm glad to see things progressing, if even a little, for you.
I agree, I feel like Gordie's targeted statements are like the Oracle at Delphi blessing us with his pronouncements.
I'm delighted that you're finally able to see results of your incredible patience Gordie. That is, in its truest sense, inspiring.
How did you feel when you heard your W "is not angry at you any more"?