Hello, i apologize if i have posted this in the wrong place, i am not very familiar with forums. Gently guide me to where i need to go from here on out.
Here's some background. My wife has been a stay at home mother for 9 of the last 13 years. During the last few years after our daughter was born (shes 4 1/2 years old now) my wife seems to have lost her sense of purpose. Unfortunately, i didn't pay attention to the signs which now seem so obvious. Fast forward to 1-10-18 and she has been hired for her first job in almost 5 years. We were so excited and felt some family goals were finally being achieved, with more on the horizon. It seemed like life was really getting somewhere for our family. Then suddenly, things came crashing down at a time our family was supposed to be on the upswing. I sensed something was going on with her when i noticed an increased habit of texting new friends from her new job and being very protective of her phone. She dropped the Bomb on me in late April with the "ILYBNILWY" speech. Stunned, i asked where this was all coming from. A few days later i discovered the EA with OM from her new job of only 4 months. After 22 years together, this is behavior quite unbecoming of her. The last month has been nothing but hell for all four of us (kids included). After doing research, i found the most helpful advice and information here, reading these forums. Everything seemed to match up so perfectly. I started seeing the signs of denial and anger from the last 2 years. First it was the decorating, signs all over our kitchen and living room saying "Love and Family", "Home, where family and love never ends" so on and so on. She would call me at work 20 times a day (slight exageration) just to talk. Then i started seeing her outbursts of anger at caring for our children and myself sometimes. I chalked it up to stress, i regret that now. Since the discovery of the EA our 22 year relationship quickly soured. I know i have gone against all the advice and stuff i read and continually nagged her with questions, concerns, guilt, etc. Knowing i shouldn't i kept hoping i would break through to her. Talks turned from "I am to guilty and ashamed" to "I need a separation and space". Then, the divorce talks came. I came home with some marriage counseling options and she told me she picked up divorce paperwork?!?! She has agreed to Full Physical custody of our kids for me. When i ask why she's willing to destroy our marriage and family, her only answer is "I don't know why i feel this way" and "I can't explain it". She agrees she doesn't feel any interest to work on or save our marriage and family. I see the replay behaviors now, though they began some time ago. She never really had the means of living out these behaviors outside of her weight loss, hair dying, etc. Once she began working and meeting new people, she truly disappeared. She stopped going to our sons baseball games. Stopped caring and paying attention to our daughter as much as she used to. The last month i have seen major signs of depression and she began withdrawing from me completely 3 weeks ago. She has begun distancing herself from anything requiring responsibility as to our children and focuses on her new job only saying stuff like "gotta make that money" and "I need a part time job as well". She tells me she feels i am just a friend to her now and only hugs me when leaving to work or coming home. This weekend, i have started looking for an apartment. She has agreed the kids should come with me for stability. I feel i need to move on for now and start worrying about me and the kids and stop focusing on her and our R. I guess i am ready to drop the rope and detach, but i am so afraid to move on alone with just me and the kids. So i am here, looking for support, advice, and answers. I believe she is cycling through replay, depression, and withdrawal. I believe the BD came later on in replay. Please advise, and thank you in advance.
Welcome to the MLC Forum. I am pasting in Cadet's Welcome thread w/lots of homework, so read and ask questions as they come along.
Welcome to the MLC Forum. You will meet people who are at various stages of dealing w/the fallout of their spouses being MIA. I am going to post below, Cadet's Welcome Posting. Please read the links and then come back and ask questions, if you should have any.
Welcome to this board.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmMichele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmKeep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296Things you should know as the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701017#Post2701017Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1WAS showing you positive signs? WAIT - READ THIS!
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2772942#Post2772942Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
_________________________
Me-63, D30,S29
Welcome to our little world. No need to apologize...you can post any where and people will be by to chat w/you and pick your brain a bit to help you to better understand what is going on and yes, to remind you to keep the focus on you and your family.
There are several things that I want to point out: 1) you are on moderation and will be for a day or so; 2) try to put your postings into paragraph form because it's easier to read; and 3) if you happen to have postings disappear, you can click the quick quote and remove the quotes around your posting and hit submit. There is no need to hit the notification button if your postings should happen to disappear. I generally review all postings throughout the day. Unfortunately, we moderators are not here 24/7, but come here often to guide, restore postings, and monitor how the postings are going.
You have plenty of homework to read as well as visiting the other forums and threads.
Thank you for the notes and advice, i will be getting to work on that this weekend. A lot going on in life right now so it's very hard to prioritize. I am hoping that deciding to move out with the kids is the right thing. It just feels my W is on a very destructive path.
When a parent says
You take the kids
There is somethjng really wrong with them
This is not about you
Take care if you and the kids
W has issues she needs to work out without you
You are on your own for now
Maybe you guys will connect later
You van only control you now
And protect the kids
I and ither here have heard all the same
You are bot alone
How are the kida
How is your support network
rylance, I am sorry you find yourself here. There are many kind and compassionate people here who understand what you are experiencing.
Gordie is right. When a parent says you take the kids, something is very wrong with them.
You mentioned W came back with divorce paperwork. She agreed to you having full custody. Did she see a lawyer?
Why do you feel you need to move and look for an apartment? Is she not willing to move?
Do not rush, this is a marathon not a sprint.
Please consult a L before making any big decisions. You need to understand the ramifications of leaving the home, taking the kids, and so forth.
Read the homework, keep posting, and focus on yourself and your kids.
We are here for you.
Hello everyone,
Thank you for your responses. It's been a busy and eventful last few days. I would like to reply to some of the questions posed.
Gordie, the kids are ok. S12 is old enough to somewhat understand what's going on. His emotions have shown at times lately. I have spoken to him about talking to me or his grandparents when something is bothering him. He just needs to vent sometimes he said. D4 is thankfully to innocent to understand stuff right now. I love her very much and will be there for her. It will be hard for her in our new apartment when she starts to realize mom will not be there anymore for her.
My support network is small but effective. I have several family and friends to confide in, including my in-laws, who are just as confused as i am right now. Every little bit helps though which is why i came here to talk about my experience and share my story.
Dnj, W did not see a lawyer. I believed she was using the term and paper as a form of manipulation or threat. In fact, when she was at work, i took the time to consult a lawyer and gathered insight on how best to proceed if needed. Last weekend, we worked out the terms of a divorce and she agreed to give me full custody. All the paperwork is signed, i told her if she wanted the divorce so bad, she can pay the filing fee herself. When that will be, i don't know. The next morning she told me she was unsure about following through. As you will read below, i may just pay for and submit it myself.
We rent a home. We decided, while she seeks help from a therapist, she will live with her parents and i will move into an apartment with the kids.
Thank you for the advice and questions. Things are moving so quickly its hard to stop and breathe. New information came to light this morning.
She admitted to calling OM yesterday which struck another knife into my heart. I cannot tolerate being lied to any further and it helps affirm that my decision to remove the kids and myself from the situation was correct. I am scared of taking on the responsibilities of being a single father, but i will do the best i can.
I can see the pain and depression in her eyes. This whole week her eyes seem so different. Its almost as if she is doing drugs! This being a woman that has done little to no drugs or drinking her entire life. When we spoke for a bit yesterday, she told me she felt she was a "lost and hopeless soul" which concerned me. I have set my boundaries though and will not tolerate them being continually crossed.
I have a busy weekend planned with the kids. The plans involved W, but after this morning, i am not sure if i want her along now.
Ry, sorry you have to be here, but you are among friends.
If I were you, depending on what you want of course, I wouldnt aid in the divorce in any way. If leaving is something she wants to do, then she needs to do all the work.
My W also had an EA with a coworker. It was short lived, but I know how much that hurts. I can tell you that it isnt even really about the OP, its about the feeling they get from the interaction with that person. It isnt love. I can tell you those things, but right now it probably wont make it hurt any less. Just try to realize that what she is doing isnt about you, its about her and her own issues. You did not do this to her. Just try to focus on yourself and the kids right now.
She could be on drugs, but I think we all notice a change in the eyes. My Ws eyes always seem foggy and dead to me when they used to be radiant and full of life. My W also talks about feeling numb and empty. That also comes with a lack of sleep and a change in eating habits. I think between the lack of feeling, the lack of sleep, and the change in diet, that can kind of explain the foggy dead eye look they have.
Hugs to you, brother. We are here for you when you need us.
Thank you for sharing your experience with me sjohns6. My W keeps saying she has no physical attraction to him (i wish i could believe her anymore). This sorry excuse for a man is about as sorry as you can expect, which almost hurts me more than if it were a younger more handsome dude. Its obvious this guy is pretty desperate for attention himself! So i kind of do believe its more about the way she felt emotionally. She told me he hung up on her and said he wanted nothing to do with her, but I don't believe her. What was that quote? "Believe nothing they say and 50% of what they do".
My W is sleeping ALL the time lately. She came home yesterday and hopped into bed, fully clothed, around 6 and laid there the rest of the night. No TV, no phone. Just staring out the window and talking to our cat occasionally. Not much interaction with the kids other than a few words. I came home today and found her in the bed again around 6. She has been eating more lately as well, more than usual at least. But the dead foggy eyes is exactly what i see. Like she has no soul staring back at me anymore. Like she's dead inside, these souless eyes staring back. She had such beautiful brown eyes! A few weeks ago D4 climbed up next to her in bed and said "I'm gonna get a new mommy, this mommy is dead"!!! Where the hell does a 4 year old get that??
I am 97% sure she is not doing drugs, i would know. The eyes just look off, you can see somethings not right. When the kids and i leave, i worry about her. At least she'll have her parents close by, though she hasn't spoken a word to them in a long time! A serial complaint her mother has voiced repeatedly lately since this all started. I truly don't want a divorce, i know she isn't right. I regret filling out the paperwork out anger. I let my emotions get the better of me.
We'll see what the weekend brings. I hope everyone has a safe and fun weekend.
So my wife initiated conversation with me this morning before she left for a "volunteer" work day. She said she wanted me to follow her steps. To separate, take time apart, and maybe reconnect in the future, possibly years away.
Says she wants to continue getting help for why she feels the way she does and still can't explain why, she just says "that's where i'm at right now". I asked her if she still wanted to divorce me and she says "possibly, we'll see"????
I am not sure how to communicate with her right now. As hard as i try, whenever she talks like this, i can't help to start asking questions. Can anyone give me some advice on how to best communicate with her right now? I am completely lost at where she is mentally right now? I almost feel like she's testing me to see if i will accept her terms? To see if i am willing to hang around. I don't know what to say or do, i am so confused.
rylance what you are feeling and your confusion is all perfectly normal.
Your W is probably testing you. To see if you accept or not. It really will not matter if you accept her terms, she will just push other buttons and test until you react. She is looking for justification for what she is or wants to do.
If she is in MLC nothing you say or do is going to bring her back. She has to do what she has to do. She is going to do it. She needs to do it. There really is no stopping her.
rylance I feel for you. I have been there, we all have.
My W had an A, EA, PA, left me and kids, gave custody to me, left all responsibilities behind. So unlike her, as I am sure it is for your W.
You are looking for some advice on how to interact with W. Where she is mentally.
Let me recap, she is willing to give up her kids. She is considering a D after 23 years of R and 12 years of M. She is more strongly considering separating right now. She is confused about her feelings and does not know why she feels and is doing things she is doing.
Mentally she is irrational. Emotionally she is cranked up to 11.
She is suffering something so traumatic that to her leaving her kids and family seems like the only thing she can do. Her pain is most likely from something far in her past, something she needs to work through. This not about you. Do remember that.
When speaking with her by kind and loving. As I said she is going to try to get you to react. Remain calm when around her, do not argue. This will not cause her to get better, but it will sure help you. You will feel better about yourself.
From my experience, in the months of h3ll and pain after BD, you cannot reason with her. She is irrational and operating on emotions.
I will share some things I learnt. I went through a lot of suffering to realize this. I hope it is not to harsh. As in any advice, take what you want discard the rest.
I did not want to be separated, but W did. So she did it. Period. I did not get voice in that decision.
When your W wants to do something she will.
I am truely grateful that W and I are currently separated with the agreement she wanted back then. If she were separating today I do not how it would be.
I have full custody of my kids. That is and has been great. I do not mean for me. I mean for them. They are living in their house. They have stable lives. They have a stable sane parent (well that is what I tell myself
).
They do not have to jump from house to house weekly. They do not live with a mom who currently does not and cannot want them. They do not live with the OM. (As for OM - it is staggering how many MLCers have PA. Maybe your W will be one of the rare ones. Just be prepared. And give him no head space.)
It may be in your and your kids best interest to consider getting that agreement signed. I know, I know, not the best outlook on saving your M and R. If separating is going to happen anyhow make sure you look after yourself and you children. Treat it like a business deal gone bad.
Allowing her to go, to separate - it lets her walk her path she needs to walk. It supports her, as much as you do not want too. I really believe that supporting her gives the best chance of her getting through this and growing up, and that is the only way or hope of saving you M and R. Also, you need to save yourself and heal right now. It is all connected.
You actual question was - how best to communicate with her right now?
Work on the follow. Do not get discouraged they take time.
Be kind
Give her space and time
Distance yourself from this
Protect, care for, and love her children
Save and heal yourself
Loving let her go
Love her unconditionally
Forgive her
Communication is not just talking. She sees your actions, and your communication will ring loud and true.
The best people that your communication will speak to, is yourself and your children.
Be true to them and you will be alright.
DnJ
DnJ's advice is as usual amazingly good and kind and true.
I would just add that separation/divorce is only a sign of their confusion, not the truth of your M. I think it's important to remember that you can be a light no matter what darkness your W brings into your lives. My H threatened D a few months ago at a BD2, and I faced that and was ready to keep standing even if he did it. He seems to have either forgotten about that idea or decided to stick around. Still crazy, still awful but sort of trying to jam his foot back into a closed door that he doesn't realize is actually open.
Point is, they have scales over their eyes so they see even beautiful things as ugly. There is no way your W can see or understand your love and faithfulness right now; all you can do is let her go and live your life with honor and grace while she spirals into the pit.
Hello everyone,
My support network is small but effective. I have several family and friends to confide in, including my in-laws, who are just as confused as i am right now. Every little bit helps though which is why i came here to talk about my experience and share my story.
I am in the same boat with your right now. Love my in-laws more than my own parents. Dad is consistent with his feelings - he prays that God provides the best outcome for all involved (including him and mom), and on God's timeline. Mom says she needs to snap out of it and go to counseling with me.
I am trying my hardest not to involve them anymore than they already are. Its hard...
Thank you Hornsfa, Gerda, Dnj for your advice and support. I apologize for how long it took me to reply, i had a busy weekend planned with family. We had bought tickets last February or March (can't remember) to see the Impractical Jokers show in town on Saturday night. W and i went before two years ago and loved it. When we heard they would be back, we immediately bought tickets so us and our S could attend. She spoke all day about going, until the last minute she decided she was gonna just stay home with our D. She cried when we were leaving, i could see the pain and depression in her eyes again. Son and I had a good time, wish W could've been there.
There was also a carnival/fair in town over the weekend, another event we had planned on taking the kids to, like every year. We planned on going Sunday. Once again, W decided to stay home at the last minute, in bed while i took the kids myself. That was very difficult and sobering for me, to realize my family was at a family event, and we were not whole anymore.
Dnj, your advice was very helpful and i appreciate you taking the time to help guide me. Between these events, W and i did a lot of talking. I listened to her, and validated her feelings, as hard as it was to hear some of it, but still have some learning to do since i can't help to ask questions. She seemed receptive to the questions and snuggled with me during these conversations, even kissing me several times. Despite her passing on these events, her personality seemed somewhat different from the way she has been the last few months. She seemed to have remorse and sadness for what's happened to us and our family. She told me she did not deserve me and that she felt i "hated her". I disagreed and told her i love her. Not sure if telling her that is a good or bad thing, kinda feel its a bad thing.
The kids and I are moving out in less then a month, i am so scared of the changes happening and pray to God things will work out good for all involved. She will get the time and space she has asked for. She seems to have let go of the Divorce talks lately, but we'll see how long that lasts.
I worry about her intentions and motivations, about what she could be potentially planning. These are my worst fears, and its so hard to believe that someone i loved so much, who loved the people in her life so dearly, could be planning my worst fears. Like Dnj said, if that's what she wants, that's what she'll do.
Best wishes to all and thank you again for everyone's advice and support. It is very appreciated.
Evening everyone,
Wife brought some interesting information to my attention today. She told me she doesn't understand why, but she knows she started distancing herself from her parents. She said she can't explain why, but started feeling this way about 5 months ago. Not wanting to talk and visit with them like she always has. Said she is pushing them out of her life!
She also said she is starting to have trouble making eye contact with people at work! I remember reading that people in a MLC will stop making eye contact, but still have not seen that when she speaks to me.
Is this regular MLC symptoms? Will these symptoms get worse or better? She says she is fighting urges everyday, but that its getting harder and that she feels she is getting worse. She sees her therapist tomorrow. If anyone can help explain why she's feeling like this, i would be very appreciative.
Thank you everyone,
Hope you all have a great evening.
You are in the very early days, and we all try to understand, analyze and figure out where they are, what they are doing, what will happen next and how long will it take. We read tea leaves, look for signs, and hope everything will just snap back. It is very normal.
My advice to you is fight that urge. It keeps you deeply attached and will cause a great deal of pain and damage. If you allow that besides the harm to you it will eventually start destroying the love you have for your wife, and one day you will realize there is no going back.
To your question They all follow a script, but they are also all different. Sounds like your wife is in early days and is going deep into replay. She is internally in a great deal of pain, confused, and her memories are distorted. I have spent a great deal of time the past couple of months talking to my wife and it is amazing how much they rewrite the past. She is feeling like this because of childhood trauma and the fact that parts of here never got a chance to fully heal, grow up and integrate. She has had internal pain and conflict she has hidden and pushed down and now the pressure is exploding and she is fracturing.
Biggest irony is whatever is happening she HAS to do this alone if she is to be whole. May be hardest thing you have to do, and it is a marathon not sprint. Get ready for the long haul and strengthen yourself and detach.
Thank you for the insight Marvin. The funny thing is, i have known W since she was 15 years old. From my early years with her, she was one of those lucky kids that grew up with a silver spoon. Both parents loved and cared for her, and are still married to this day. She has never told me of any serious issues from her childhood. Can these memories be suppressed and forgotten for the majority of adulthood?
If so, what brought it out that requires the reckoning now? Does therapy even help with a MLC? Anti-depressants help? I am trying to worry about myself and the kids, but i am having the hardest time trying to let go of her. Life is pretty horrible right now, wish this would all just be a nightmare that i could wake up from.
She told me last night to "take care of our kids while she fights through this". She also said she wants me to "forget about her right now, but to wait for her one day"! Man, i was heart broken hearing her talk the other night.
Thanks again Marvin, i appreciate your insight.
People may look like they have the perfect life growing up, but that is not always the case. Sometimes people who look like they had the perfect families were still treated in a way that caused deep damage. It does not have to be something very dramatic, it could have been constant cut down, put down, not allowing her to find herself or criticism that seemed normal to her at the time, so she will not have talked about it.
MLC seems to come to full steam at certain ages or when some new stress or something dramatic happens (death, work, getting older). Think of it more as pressure that has been building and it finally hit critical point. And they hide and patch the cracks until the building falls down. Therapy may help, but I know lots of good therapist who have not been trained to understand this. If they do you may find that you wife still rejects their advice. It seems once MLC hits there is a breakdown and rebuilding that happens, and it always involves rejecting their current life. And you are a huge part of that. So let her go, for her and your sake.
What is interesting is that you wife seems to have insight into this at some level. She is telling you to take care of yourself and the kids while she fights. That is actually pretty darn accurate. She may become less clear, more angry, and may develop what is called shark eyes where she looks right through you. All this hurts incredibly unless you detach and realize she HAS to go through this alone.
I know my heart has broken many times over the last year, but the more I detached and went no contact the less it happened. And so far I have managed to still keep my love for my wife alive. If I had not I am not sure I could even stand her now. And believe me we all wake up at times or have moments where we want to just scream and say this is NOT real, and wish they would just snap out of it. But they can not, this is reality for now.
Best thing you can do is remove all pressure from her (she already has more than she can handle), give her space and demand nothing. Walk forward, use this time to heal and improve yourself and find who you are outside of being a husband. As you heal yourself and keep moving forward she is more likely to feel safe and find her way back. My wife has already told me she always knew I was there and she appreciated that I did not leave and gave her the time and space.
There are no guarantees but letting go now and taking care of yourself is both the best thing for you and your kids and for you marriage.
Thanks again Marvin, you have tremendous knowledge of these situations. Everything you say makes so much sense. It is all very much appreciated. Thank you to you and everyone else who has taken the time to give me advice and knowledge.
W went to her therapy session yesterday. Gotta say i am disappointed. W is making decisions that carry heavy consequences for our family, and all he does is validate her feeling for making these decisions. I had hoped he would try to work on the issue that caused her to feel this way, not just make her feel good about doing so? Perhaps i don't understand the process though.
W tells me she is still fighting the urge to divorce but seems to be giving up easier and easier. She keeps telling me to wait for her and that we may be able to rekindle our love later on in life?? Does telling her i love her make matters worse? Should i stop expressing any feelings towards her altogether? I understand listening to her talk and trying to validate what she's saying. Respond lovingly and kindly, but without showing my feelings for her?
She also keeps saying that if she does divorce me, she wants me to be there for her for help and to remain her best friend. I have told her i love her too much to just be her friend, and that i am here for her now, but if she divorces me, i told her i could no longer be there for her nor continue to hurt myself by trying to be her friend. Is this the wrong way to respond to this? Am i handling this the wrong way?
Thank you in advance for everyone's advice and insight. Have a good day everyone.
Hi rylance - I don't tend to post too much to active situations any more but your's caught my eye.
The key thing here is that you are going to have a bumpy ride of it no matter how things turn out. You will learn things about yourself and your relationship with your W that will probably surprise you and may well disturb you.
I'm from about 2 years in an alternate future. Your situation doesn't quite mirror mine but as others say, there's a script and there are similarities between us all.
If you feel like some boring but perhaps enlightening reading you may want to check out some of my older threads. Once I shifted over to the MLC forum I got some fabulous advice from job and a gent who went as Jack_Three_Beans. Anything they wrote to me is pure gold and might help you.
Here's a link to a summary thread.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2789569&page=1And yes, I'm divorced and my ex is still off in fairy-dust pixie land.
The key advice I have for you right now is that it is crucial that you be the "sane" parent. Don't rely on your W for anything. She's not on the same planet as the rest of us. Whether she circles back is unknown. Whether you are still waiting will always be your own choice. But for now, your kids need you. Be present for them and do what you can to protect them and your finances.
Hello Andrew, thank you for reading my story and sharing your advice and experience with me. When i first came to these forums, i could not believe some of the stuff i read. As i compared symptoms and others stories to my own, i hoped and prayed that this wasn't truly the case for my W and our R. After reading at how terrible MLC is, i had begun to fear this could be the truth. The more irrational and emotional my W has become, its become harder and harder to not face the truth.
I recognize the road ahead will be difficult and it terrifies me! I am not prepared to face this, but i am trying. All i can do now is pray to the Lord to guide me straight and true, and to depend on the advice of the good people i have met here. Each day is a battle. Never in my life would i have believed this would happen. My W truly loved me unconditionally for as long as i can remember. Its hard to realize that isn't the case right now. So heartbreaking! Thanks again Andrew,, it is much appreciated.
Your MLCer may mask depression with what seems like indifference--or you may interpret depression as indifference. Being depressed feels like you are without a soul, a foundation, a way out and are stuck in the Wasteland. It feels permanent and thus hopeless. In Replay you may recognize the soul-void when you notice their eyes seem dead and they seem to act without a conscience. In Liminality depression becomes more overt and their entire demeanor is like the walking dead. They may seem restless because they want to stop moving and are immobile, unable or unwilling to drag themselves out of bed. Replayers may avoid eye contact, but as they become more proficient at deception, eye contact may resume. In Liminality they avoid eye contact not because they are lying and trying to avoid detection but because they want to disappear; they are trying to melt into the background. Depression may manifest as indifference or someone may interpret it as such. In a state of depression Self love lies buried beneath rubble and until it surfaces the MLCer is incapable of showing love for anything or anyone. There is no caring substance, understanding this can help you to avoid interpreting the lack of caring making it personal. It is not personal; he is dead inside.
I read the above article from another website yesterday. Considering since i previously commented on seeing this in my wife's eyes, and read comments from sjohn6 about seeing the same thing in his W's eyes, i felt the urge to share this with everyone. It truly shows how troubled they are right now.
Not much has changed in my sitch. Wife discusses divorce more and more now, which hurts everytime. The kids and i move out in less then three weeks, leaving her to her own devices. She asked me to let her know if i start dating anyone, and said i could not have sex with anyone else!!! She wants to divorce me and break up her family, and this is what she is worried about?? I am truly amazed at our conversations as of late.
The feelings of anxiety since BD are lessening more and more. I still love my wife deeply, but am eager to move on for now with the kids. The feelings are hard to explain, i am eager, but still frightened to move on without her. I guess that will get better once we are truly separated.
There are no magic formulas, there are no cures, there is not much you can do to change what is happening. Accept that this bomb started ticking many years ago, somewhere in the child or teen years of your wife. You happen to be there when it went off. Everything says detach, walk away (for now), save and heal yourself. Because you have to. For you and for your kids.
My experience with my wife (no kids) has been very similar, I am about 1.5 years ahead of you. But I will say this (from my perspective): there are things that may push her deeper and faster into this. I do not believe there is anything we as the LBS can do to prevent or help, in fact we HAVE to stay out of it for many reasons. They have to do this alone. But I do believe we can make the processes longer or deeper. This DOES NOT mean we are responsible or caused it. More that at a critical moment we may push things in the wrong way. Please realize this is only my belief and everything I have seen, read and experienced.
My advice to you right now is REMOVE yourself. Be the source of NO PRESSURE, NO STRESS, focus on yourself, show your wife no pain, no sadness. In fact just listen to whatever she says, do not agree or disagree, do not argue, try to convince her. Most importantly ask NO questions, specially about your relationship or the future. She has absolutely no ability or space for any of it and all of that is pressure when she already is exploding inside.
What I found is that the more I moved on and seemed happy (genuinely mostly, not faking it) and the more I pulled back and gave her all the space in the world the more it kept my wife from running away faster. Initially she disappeared (so will yours based on script), but I am very sure she will touch and go as she goes deeper and deeper into replay. It is almost like a child wanting to make sure the parent they hate is still nearby. My wife has said now that she is gaining some clarity that she always felt safe knowing I was somewhere in the distant. I believe by just moving on and not pressuring her I reduced her ability to push off our relationship, and it made it harder for her to put all her pain and unhappiness on our relationship. I was simply not there as she found herself not becoming happy. And I think one of the first steps in her started to try to snap out of it came when she realized I genuinely have moved away from her.
I am not saying this is what will happen with your wife, I do not think anyone can predict it. But I will say your best chance at helping her (and more importantly keeping yourself from being shredded by her actions emotionally) is detach, remove yourself emotionally and if possible physically. Do not engage her, but be kind, gentle and try to remind yourself no matter what she says or does she is in an incredible amount of pain and confusion.
Marvin, you are incredible! Some of the advice you have given since your first post is as though you know my situation exactly. I am guilty, about as guilty as can be. Going against everything i have read, all the advice given me, knowing better, i continue to pepper my W with the same questions over and over. I have literally driven her insane with guilt and questions i feel! I drive home from work telling myself the whole way, no more questions, and guess what i do? I guess somewhere deep down i continued to hope this MLC wasn't the case, that i could convince her somehow! That she would finally understand. Today i have realized i can't. She is absolutely blind to reason! The answers she gives have shredded me emotionally! I am literally a torn up paper puppet of my former self.
I have finally come to the realization that i am completely alone! My wife is gone right now and it hurts. I know now there is nothing i can say or do that will change her mind. I believe i have finally accepted it is time to take that first step. I will not ask a single question of her for the last three weeks i live with her. i wish i could have come to this realization earlier. To do exactly what everyone was saying, everything i have read. I am ready to emotionally detach, knowing deep inside my soul i love her more dearly than anything else in this world could. I pray to the good Lord that i have not destroyed the option for her to return home some day. Whenever that may be, i hope i can still be there waiting for her!
Before she fell asleep, i held her in my arms in our bed. I spoke softly to her face saying, "I am sorry for everything i have done recently to add to your pressure and pain. I want you to know that i love you with every fiber of my being! I believe deep down in your heart, you still love me, its just buried away deep down within you". She began crying and sobbing, which caused me to cry as well. As my tears dripped on her face, i told her that "I want you to know that i will focus on me and our children, to become the best father i can be. And that i swore to you and God, for better and for worse, that i will always love you. That you need to go on this journey and find yourself. I will go to sleep every night praying for you and will wake every morning thinking of you, as i always have! I will be waiting for you, patiently for you to come home to me and our children"
"I hope one day, when you rediscover yourself, you will find me again. That we can start over again together. We will be two whole new people then, whenever that is. You will have changed and i will have changed. But my love for you will not, and we can start all over again one day. So i promise you, i will be waiting for you, please come home to me one day"! She replied with, "ok, thank you". We laid together crying for a few more minutes before i left the room.
Life can be seriously brutal. I did not have the greatest childhood. I have seen some pretty sad and disturbing things through the years. From my biological father beating my mother on Christmas day, to coming home from high school to find my step dad murdered in our own home! I thought i could handle anything life through at me over the years. But this is by far the hardest thing i have ever faced! The old saying that God would never give you more than you could handle is something i have uttered to myself a lot of the years. I believe everything happens for a reason! I pray something great and beautiful comes from all of this. Its hard to believe that right now, knowing how it will effect my children. But i will continue to have faith, and believe in my marriage. I know my wife truly loves me, i just hope i am still around when she realizes it!
Thank you everyone! And thank you Marvin for telling me exactly what i needed to hear. Like i said, it was as if you knew i was withholding information about what was truly happening. You told me exactly what i needed to hear. I thank you for that. Have a good night everyone!
It is very hard to accept and parse this, believe me I understand. The person you shared your life with, completely trusted with, relied on, disappears in what to us looks like in an instant. But realize they have been disappearing for longer, we just did not notice. I reconstructed the timeline to two years before bomb drop when she started fracturing. In conversations with her subsequently she has confirmed as much. So to you it is new and a shock, she is already detached and gone.
Another really important thing to keep in mind. I suggest DO NOT even keep telling her you love her, you will be there for her, you will wait. All of these things things which would be supportive in a normal situation is pressure to her. It really is insane clown logic at work here. Say nothing, only listen, validate without agreeing or arguing. Do not share anything about your life or what you are thinking, just start moving on and live you own life. Words mean nothing but actions are everything. We all slip from time to time, we all messed up at the start, but now its time to get going.
Also always be happy, never say the smallest sarcastic or jabbing comment, it really seems they hear every little thing and will focus on and blow it out to be major (they get hurt easily). Really no contact may be a great option for a bit all around, shows her you are moving on and leaving her alone and will let you not be constantly damaged. Even over a year out small things my wife will do (which is in no way surprising) can get past my defenses and hurt. And this is when she is actively trying to reconnect!
Amazing post, Rylance! I think it's good that you said all those things. Now you need never wonder if you weren't clear, and you have said exactly what was on your heart. As a woman, I can also say that that is every woman's dream to hear those words. I wrote my H a letter kind of like that after BD, and it gave me peace. If you are trying to please God first, I think your letter is great.
And I think her crying shows that she is hearing you from deep inside.
Maybe it will be easier to think of this as letting go and letting God. You've said your piece and left the ball in her court so you can leave her to God to work on and live your own life for your kids as best as you can. You can leave the light on so she can see it when she looks back through the dark at HOME. But it's true that once you've made that stuff clear, saying it more will only create a feeling that you are compelling something and add to her feelings of being caged. She is not being caged by you but she thinks she is, so you have to let her go so that she can realize that the cage has nothing to do with you but is a cage around her own soul.
You are doing great! Any woman would love to hear those words, so you can rest assured that if that didn't win her back, nothing can win her back until she realizes on her own what she left behind. I had cancer during my stand, a year after BD, and that didn't wake my H up; thinking of that can sometimes make me mad or bitter but if I am thinking rightly, it helps me understand that there is absolutely nothing I can do but live my own life as best I can and either way or not wait for him to come back. (I am waiting but very tired!)
Thank you Marvin and Gerda for your replies, advice and support, they are very much appreciated.
Marvin, i do realize this all started some time ago. The signs are so visible now, i just didn't know then. In some of our conversations, my W has told me these feelings all began 4 1/2 years ago, after the birth of our D. I don't know if she is rewriting history or what? I never felt she had lost feelings for me whatsoever over this time period. The title of my post was a question, "Is my W suffering from a MLC"?
I have matched up so much information that relates to my experience. But, she has told me she just started "falling out of love with me" over time, that her heart was like a roller coaster, her love was up and down. For me, i could not just "fall out of love" with someone that i have devoted my life to. Can the birth of a child jump start a MLC? She had a difficult pregnancy with our D. We even had the Down Syndrome scare while she was pregnant. My wifes body became seriously outta whack during this pregnancy. She also began suffering panic attacks trying to sleep at night near the end of the pregnancy. She recently went to her OBGYN who said her body is chemically unbalanced and put her on birth control to help restore the balance.
I believe she may have suffered from postpartum depression after the birth. I read awhile back that when postpartum goes undiagnosed, it can return stronger and worse. My heart wants to believe she is confused and lost due to an MLC, cause it hurts more to think she just "fell out of love" for no reason and began tearing our family apart. Is it possible for someone who has devoted 22 years of their life to just fall out of love? She always truly loved me over the years, i know this is true. She cared for me and our children so much. The woman she is now is so distorted! She even missed another of our Sons baseball games last night, an all stat tournament game. She admitted that our daughter was too much for her to handle the last couple years as a stay at home mother.
I am wondering if rewriting of history is at play here or not? Funny how all of this comes out after the discovery of her EA.
Gerda, thank you for what you said. I am trying to put her into Gods hands. My wife continues to think of herself as a "piece of s__t, with a black heart and soul" Not sure how such a beautiful woman became so harsh. Hopefully she will one day feel better about herself, for her and her kids sake.
Thanks again everyone. Have a good weekend.
It is possible for people to fall out of love, but that process takes time, makes sense, and there is no bomb drop. So only you can tell, is that what happened or was there really the bomb drop process? Does she show anger and resentment and rewrites past? Yes if it is MLC they rewrite the past and that is part of the incredibly confusing and disorienting process. It had me off balance for a bit because I trusted my wife so much I did not thing she could be distorting reality. But once I regained my balance I could see she had rewritten a low. And it did start with less, and it got both more dramatic (from I need space, to I do not love you, to I never loved you as it went on) and it extends further and further in the past (at its worst she said I had ALWAYS trapped her and she was NEVER happy, which I know is not true). As she is getting a little more clear whenever I point out what she has said she truly does not remember and is confused by it. So you do have to be careful and this is one of many reasons to go no contact. Over the past year I always gained clarity whenever I was not interacting with her. Being around her caused her confusion to confuse me and I was questioning things I know to be true (like I would have noticed over 22 years if she NEVER loved me, I am not a moron).
So step away, go no contact, then look back and see if you really believe she does not love you. She does NOT love you RIGHT NOW, right now she probably HATES YOU. My wife even right now will launch into saying things like you are repugnant and I find you repulsive. Ten minutes later she will say she is going miss me terribly because I am leaving. Their beliefs are VERY REAL the moment they feel it but not stable and not necessarily the real truth. There is really something coming up from a past period of time, it is almost like another personality from an earlier time overlays and hijacks the person. One thing I read said it very well, it said what would a teenage version of your wife think of you if she found herself married and with kids with a guy your age?
Thank you Marvin for replying again. I enjoy reading your advice and experience. Yes, there was definitely a bomb drop! I am no moron either, January was one of the best months we've had and was an exciting time for us. We had goals established and within reach. Things were looking so good for us. By the time April hit, she dropped the bomb on me with the "ILYBNILWY" speech. A few days later i discovered the EA. If i had knew that our marriage was going south, i wouldn't have lost nearly 70 lbs in less than two months with a trip to Urgent care for a 141/92 blood pressure! Talks quickly went from "i need space", to "i need a separation" to the divorce talks!
Shortly after the EA was discovered, i looked at potential Apts for me to move in to. She told me at the time that "this was not what I (she) wanted". Shortly after, she began saying she needed to find her own Apt and move out. I was stunned at how easily she came to the decision to abandon me and our kids. Her finances are low so she wasn't really able to move out as she wanted. She even asked me to help her financially to find her own Apt, which i declined. I thought the idea of the kids seeing her move out was heartbreaking. I decided it was better for the kids and I to leave and she could stay with her parents, which she agreed to. I read an article about "planting ideas" in their heads. In anger, i was the first one to bring up divorce. She was stunned when i first mentioned it. Now she believes its what she wants.
She does keep saying that she "feels like a prisoner" and says "I was too controlling". I never once in our 22 years told her what she could or couldn't do. I swore long ago to not follow the same roads my father and step fathers lead. So, i do believe that she has been rewriting our history.
She missed another of our Sons baseball games Friday night. That hurt cause this was the start of the All Star tournament. She used the excuse that she needed to stay home with our daughter, even though mother in law asked to watch her for us. She went to bed at 7:30 and slept till 8 Saturday morning. She woke up in a very bitter and angry mood. Irritable at me and the kids. She cleaned house for a bit, before laying back down. She refused to do anything with us ALL day. Literally laid in bed all day, then slept through the night.
Second game of Sons tournament was today, which she thankfully attended. She was in a far better mood today, calling me "Hun" several times. I have finally been able to avoid asking her questions. When we came home, she laid in bed next to me saying, she didn't want me to get upset "IF" she asked for a divorce. I said i understand how she feels, but don't believe itz the right choice at the moment.
I move out in two weeks with the kids, so she will get her space and separation soon, as wanted. I am trying my best to avoid questions and keep to myself, to only interact when she initiates it. I am trying my best to follow yours and everyone else's advice. I thank you all for your time and input. Have a great week everyone.
Keep working on moving expectations to zero
She does not want to be w and mother right now
So if son has a baseball game do not expect her
If she shows up you can be pleasantly surprised
The purpose of this is to protect you
Expectations that are not met will cause you anxiety and resentment
No expectations will help you detach and remove all pressure on her
Remember your expectations even if unsaid are pressure to her
Pressure to act like a w and mother
Which will only cause her to flee further
Sleeping all day and night are classic depression behaviors
Hugs to you
You are in the thick of it
It will get better one way or the other
Hello Gordie, thank you for the input. I am working on it, though i admit this is so very hard. I know it will get easier once i am gone, i hope at least. I can't help but wonder what she'll be doing once the kids and i are not around. She says she just wants to be alone, and do stuff with her parents occasionally, take some time to herself. I have a feeling that is the exact opposite of what she wants to do. Wish i could just say i am being paranoid. I am trying to detach, i truly am. I knew she was depressed, i have rarely seen her like this, outside of the last 2 months.
Seems like she gets super depressed and then picks up. She spent all Saturday in bed, then Sunday, seemed the exact opposite. She laid in bed with me and talked to me until 11 pm. No R or future talk, just about work, the kids, are sons baseball. Was so weird how she acted. Friendly and almost inviting, just not to inviting. This all just seems like some weird mind game sometimes.
Thank you Gordie for the advice, i am trying my best to turn everyone's advice into action. I appreciate it very much.
People can sure be amazing. How can someone you've loved and known for over 22 years continually lie straight to your face as if you were some moron! I really don't understand the point of lying at this point? Why not just come clean. Why continue to blacken your own soul over lies?! I am truly stunned. I just can't wrap my mind around the continual lies? "Believe nothing they say and 50% of what they do" So sad to see what she has become!
In her mind, she is not lying. Sometimes there are outright lies, but I think most of the time they actually are telling their truth, their reality as they see it.
To you, her lies are obvious but you are the rational and sane one.
I am trying to understand her rationale. She says "IF" she divorces me, she would prefer i not date anyone else and especially not have sex with any other women? She says she doesn't plan on doing anything but seeing the kids when she can and take time to herself and heal. She says she doesn't plan on seeing anyone and definitely doesn't want to have sex with anyone else! She told me her......female reproductive organs, will always be mine and will never be given to anyone else. Wants to believe we will rekindle our R and M later on in life???
WHAT THE H@LL IS GOING ON HERE?
This almost seems like some stupid joke! Does this sound like someone in a MLC?? I know she still speaks to OM, though not nearly as much as they were. She continues to lie about talking to him though which at this point makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!! Can anyone say they have ever heard someone talk like this on here?
I read an article about "High Energy Replayers" and Low Energy Wallowers". High energy more likely to have PA's while low energy usually have EA and in-fatuation.
Either way, this stuff is stating to irritate me to no end. I love her and want to give her time, but my lord, what the hell is really going on here. Anyone got any advice on how to handle this?
Thank you.
Sorry for the situation you are in Shepard. Your w is giving you lines straight from the MLC playbook.
I hope I'm wrong, but the whole thing about you not being with anyone else is because she wants to keep you on the hook while she goes off and does whatever (and sadly, whomever).
Continue to follow the advise of the wise men that have contributed.zero expectations, detach, Gal. It's your key to survival.
Hello Shepard. I get the need to understand at least somewhat, before you can continue to walk your path.
Please be careful. It is fine to want to understand and the MLC process, signs, behaviours, and so on. However, trying to understand her rationale will drive you bonkers.
It is like when you first tried to understand algebra. You looked at it and said what the blank is this. This is kind of the same. You then had to change the way you thought about math and numbers to understand algebra. You really do not want to change the way you think the match her warped view. To be able to understand her rationale you would need to think like her - to be in MLC.
Like others have said she is following right out of the MLC playbook. This is terribly difficult to get through. As the LBS you need to care for yourself and your kids. You need to focus on you and detach - you absolutely need to do this.
I know what it feels like and I feel for you. You can and will get through this. Keep working on you and trying to let go of her and the pain. Keep posting and asking questions we are here for you.
Shep, most of us here have dealt with batchitcrazy things that have come out of our MLCers mouths. I can only agree to what was said about the need to detach and GAL activities. These aren't done to forget about how much you love your spouse. They are done so that you are shielded for what is about to come and trust me when I say it gets more and more crazy.
Prayer, GAL, Detach, shield your kids from the crazy and be the best dad you can.
Shep - I fully understand what you are going through and the emotional pain its causing you. I read your posts with interest and can perfectly relate to your situation.
My wife slowly started withdrawing from our marriage within months of her 40th birthday. She claimed she was no longer in love and the disconnection for her had been there for some time; She continues to rewrite our history, concentrating on her perception of the bad; never the good. I later found out she had been having a EA/PA with a colleague for four months. It hurts like crazy. I thought we had a strong marriage and an even stronger bond. I was wrong.
Fast forward eighteen months and she is withdrawn on every level; to some extent with the kids as well. She doesn't want to be around me and doesn't want to spend any time with me; she appears permanently miserable and talks about separation, but does nothing about it, that I know of so far. She frequently lies about things, which doesn't build any trust.
I'm almost certain its a midlife crisis, brought on by the death of her father, a troubled childhood, serious injury, health issues and a lack of fulfilment now the kids are young adults. She has thrown herself into her career and often disappears for days to her mothers house, without hearing from her. She claims her feelings are not coming back and I should find somebody else.
I have known my wife for 23yrs; An alien has taken over my wife. This isn't the woman I married and she is not herself. I love her to bits and I'm not leaving. That is a conscious decision I have made. I will not be forced out of my own home; I have invited her to leave to find her happiness and she has refused and got upset over it. Confusion reigns !
Shep - what can I do about it? I firmly believe from everything I have read, I can do absolutely nothing about it. It is her crisis and her crisis alone to solve. Knowing my wife, she will be happy not dealing with the issues as that is the easiest way.
I can do a lot for myself and my kids. I can be the stable one. The one the kids can rely on. I can get a life outside of what little of the relationship is left; I can give her the time and space to figure it out; I no longer pursue; I don't call her, text her, initiate conversation; I avoid any form of conflict; I stay out of her way and keep a low profile. I am taking the pressure off and providing a calm environment for the kids. Eventually she will realise I am not the source of her unhappiness. I no longer talk relationship as she doesn't know the answers herself. She is lost, confused, emotional and battling an inner turmoil she will not confront; to the outside world and her friends, she is a beacon of light; a bright bubbly happy go lucky woman who has everything.
Its the most difficult thing I have ever had to deal with and its tough, very tough and I fully understand and relate to your situation. Hang in there.
Agree with all the other comments
Remember one of the simpler guidelines here is not to listen to their words and only half of their actions
Sadly many of us have heard the exact same things which is troubling but there are also moments I can now see the black comedy that it is
So an addition piece of advice that I got here and from my d b coach during this phase in addition tondetach and g a l is to be more mysterious
I found this advice hard to follow and understand
You sound like a rational guy
You probably have a regular job and a regular schedule and a regular wardrobe and drive a regular car and a regular social life which in my book sounds great
But sometimes the w just sees this as boring and predictable and that you will always be there as plan b and of course you would not date anyone or share your private parts with them
So being mysterious is about communicating through actions and not words thst there is more to you than what she perceives
Go out and do not tell her when and where or with whom
Do some overnight trips or weekend get always without her
I am not suggesting that you start dating or sleeping around
But when I started doing this here is what happened
W started becoming a lot more curious about boring and predictable Gordie
Where are you going and with whom
Where did you sleep last night
Well if she did not want me as a H it was none of her business anymore
This drive her crazy despite the fact that she herself was going out all the time
This also curtailed her social life because I was no longer the live in babysitter who was dependable
I was the single guy with a very unpredictable schedule and mysterious social life
Hope that makes sense
Wow, thank you everyone. Its as i suspected, but was hoping to hear otherwise. W birthday is in a few days. I bought her something simple, that i knew she would like. She asked me to take the day off to spend with her and the kids. I guess i will. I am detaching, slowly but surely. Divorce is inevitable, not a matter of if but when. I am very angry for her causing the break up of our family. Its a choice she will have to live with. I will get custody of the kids. She likes to throw in 50/50 occassionally, but quickly acquiesces to me having full and her having visitations.
Sometimes i wonder if the woman i devoted my life to and started a family with always had this evil interior hidden away? I wonder if this truly is a MLC or not. I have reached a point now where i am becoming numb inside. I still love her, but my perception of her, my trust in her is almost completely shot. I am not sure if i can ever regain it back. As time goes on, i wonder if my love will continue for her.
Everyone has said go no contact, to live my life for me and my kids. I am contemplating when i move out whether to tell her to F OFF and go to hell and never talk to her again and forget about her completely, or to have some type of cordial relationship, for the kids sake. She says stuff like she wants to visit our apartment, have dinner and stay the night occassionally, perhaps even continue sleeping with me?!?!
Detaching will be impossible while continuing to sleep with her. I keep praying to God to show me the correct path, to guide me to where i need to be.
I am leaning toward breaking all contact with her for good. Maybe its the anger building up in me. Maybe as i become more numb and detached, i can think about one day loving her again. That day is far away now though, almost out of sight. God bless her troubled soul.
Thank you everyone as usual. Hope everyone has a great day.
I guess the type of relationship you have post divorce is entirely your choice, but for the sake of the kids, a cordial, amicable, business like arrangement must be best. Communication is strictly around the kids.
How can you move forward if she just wants to be friends with benefits?
I don't believe that divorce is the end. Did you ever check out rejoice ministries? Reading through the materials there or the daily devotionals may give you a different outlook on all the questions you are raising here.
You know how when you have the flu, you feel like you'll never feel well again and can't imagine it? Well, right now you have the MLC flu. I believe that your marriage can be restored if you can lean on God to fix her and bear the waiting time. But either way, you will one day not have the MLC flu again, you will not be enslaved by unforgiveness, and she will realize what she lost, whether or not you let her find it again.
Getting through the time in between is the part that seems unbearable. I've been waiting for 5 years and still confident in my choice to wait despite being very very tired.
Your love for her was real, and hers for you was real. She is believing a lie right now because she believes that it will release her from her suffering. Her suffering is not coming from you, and once she realizes that, she may turn back. You can leave the light on for her or not. You don't have to decide what you are going to choose right now. Just be where you are and pray for healing from your wounds and love your kids. You may have to do this many times a day. Just keep choosing the light and you will get peace when the time is right, no matter what your W chooses.
Gerda - 5yrs is a very long time to wait for somebody; my wife has repeatedly told me that she no longer has any love for me and her feelings are not going to change. Its been nearly two years. I can't imagine feeling this way for another 3yrs; something has to give, something has to change.
My only reason for staying is because of the kids. I believe we still provide a stable atmosphere for them to grow up in. Ive invited her to leave and she has got upset over it. I believe there is still hope for our marriage but I'm slowly disconnecting as I honestly believe the reality that it is over, despite wanting her back.
Thank you everyone.
FaceMan, thank you for the advice on communication afterwards. I am certain when the divorce comes, i will not be talking to her for a long time, at the least. Communication about the kids will be strictly by text and enforced. I don't plan on moving forward with my wife of 23 years simply being a friend with benefits. The idea disturbs me. For now, i am not interested in meeting anyone new and still feel a small hope God will help her along this path and return her to us. How long i can wait though, i am not sure. She has caused a lot of irreparable damage already!
Gerda, thank you for the beautiful post. I look up to you for the love and patience you still have for your WAS. In time, for my kids sake, i hope i can find the will to stand like you. I truly hope one day our family will be whole once again. I am taking it one day at a time now and can feel myself slowing detaching emotionally. The detachment will be complete once the kids and I are in our own Apt.
W parents are not in the best of health for the last year. She has distanced herself from most of the people that love her most in this world, which is extremely sad to watch. My mom and sis have known her for 22 years. She hasn't spoken to them since February. Her own parents have been distanced, by her own account. She still doesn't speak much to them, according to her mom and dad. Me and our kids will no longer be living with her. There is not much left in this small town for her to associate with family wise. So very sad. If something were to happen to her parents, she would truly be alone.
Thank you everyone, as usual. You have all been a tremendous help over the last month. Best wishes to you all. Hope everyone has a good weekend.
Hello everyone, wanted to give a quick update.
Wife started her birthday by filling out our divorce paperwork. For awhile i contemplated making things difficult and contesting her actions, but she wants me to have full custody of children, will pay child support, and waived her rights to alimony and my retirement. Not sure if fighting this would upset the favorable conditions she is offering. We had made plans to spend the rest of the day with the children. Due to the weather though, the day was a total waste. Everything we planned was canceled, which caused her to fall into a irritable, downward spiral. Lashing out at the kids while I was driving saying stuff like "worst day/birthday of my life" and "i'll spend my next birthday alone"!. Was a horrible day, for everyone.
The 4th was a far better day for everyone. We were able to do the things we wanted for her birthday. Everyone had a great day. It made up for the crappy day her birthday was.
W continues to say things that are so confusing. In the most genuine and sincere way. She says, after the divorce, she wants to start all over, from the beginning. She doesn't want to risk losing my heart to someone else, doesn't want me to worry about losing her while we are separated and divorced. That she will always be my girl and that she needs time to figure herself out and heal. She doesn't want other people in our kids lives and intends to remarry and rekindle our R in time.
I am worried she could be setting me up for the most cruel and heartbreaking moments yet. She promises though that is not her intentions.
The kids and i move out this weekend. S is excited about starting over somewhere new. D is too slightly, but doesn't yet realize mom will not be there with her anymore. I am going into this with no expectations, but its hard to not hope for a positive outcome. I will begin GAL activities shortly after settling in and have several goals set up to work on. Praying to God this all works out positively in the end.
I hope everyone has a good weekend. Thank you
Shepard, my wife made that same kind of agreement with me. After 9 months, and for all involved, that is the best agreement we could have achieved. It is good for the kids, for me, and for W. She really did not want the responsibility of them. She has yet too, and may never, wake up and regret what she has done.
I am not being a materialistic weasel when I say you should work with her on her suggested agreement.
Stalling, making it difficult, etc... will not wake her up. If those kind of actions had some probable success it may be worth considering. However, it probably will just make her mad.
Letting her do all the heavy lifting, not stalling but not really helping, and so on - I think are best suited to when thing are looking more contested or argumentative. If you can get an agreement that will provide you and the kids with security, that is good thing.
This sure looks like what I experienced. She wants out, and she wants out in this way. She even wants you to have full custody. You are not negotiating, she is dictating the terms.
I understand you wanting to fight this. Like everything else with MLC, fighting her does not do much good.
If she sees a lawyer, sticks to her guns with them, goes against the advice of L, and still wants this agreement - lovingly let her.
The financial part of MLC is horrible also, just like the rest of it. Treat it like business and just work through it. After you can allow yourself your emotions on this.
Best of luck. Keep strong.
RESTORED POSTING FOR FACEMAN
Shepard....I have read this thread again from start to finish. Im inspired by the posts of MarvinF and they give me a glimmer of hope for the future, that my relationship may one day be restored.
I live in Europe, but Im amazed at the similarities and the script that MLC presents to those going through it and the people it destroys in its path. You are definitely not alone and your experience with what you are being told is very similar to my own.
I dont know what to do either...help her divorce me and allow her to go down her chosen path or allow her to do the heavy lifting. I think I must do whatever is the least painful for the children.
Its incredibly difficult to see our loved ones destroy their families.....Im with you Shep; I feel your pain and know how much it hurts.
Im now trying to increase my efforts to detach, spend more time with the kids as the school holidays approach and get out and about more. Maybe she will realise what she has lost when it’s gone.
Im with you shep......I feel the pain every day.....I read that waking up every day feels like Im dealing with an emotional emergency.....described it perfectly..
Hang in there.....FM
Shep
How are you doing
How was the move
Hello everyone,
DnJ, as much as i want to fight this divorce, stalling and hiring a lawyer, just to possibly lose out on the favorable terms being offered, while having to pay a lawyer is just silly. I love my W and wish things were different, but i really have no choice. She is gonna do what she wants to do. So the paperwork has been signed and notorized. All she has to do is turn in the paperwork and pay the filing fee, which i don't believe she has done yet.
Faceman, i have read your story as well. This whole thing is ridiculous, i can't fathom what is going through their minds as they make these decisions. My daughter cries for Mom everyday since we have moved into our own apartment. The kids and i went to the house with in laws and W to gather more of our stuff. Grandma cried about not having the babies around everyday. W had no emotion which irritated me. If anyone should be crying over these changes it should be the parent!
Gordie, i am doing ok, thank you for asking. This whole change is very hard to accept, not just for me, but for the kids. This week is the 1st time in over 23 years i slept in a bed without my wife!! That's very hard to accept!! The evenings after work and mornings before are hectic. Cleaning and getting the kids ready by myself is hard and sobering. The hardest times for me are right before bed, and the early morning before getting up for work. Not having her next to me during these times to talk to and touch is still very hard to accept. The move went well! Got some stragglers at the old place still, but the apartment is mostly complete and the kids are comfortable.
Wife picks up daughter from school after work and brings her to my apartment, where S is while on summer break. She stays here with them until i come home from work. She has bought items for the apartment, and a few items for herself, that she has asked me to hold onto here for her. She says she will eventually move in with us. She has stored her shoes here as well. She still says she will always be my girl, that she still loves me, and that she needs time to herself. She fully intends on rekindling out R in time! Seems so damn cruel if she is just feeding me garbage, but i want to believe her so badly! I am taking this one day at a time. Been so busy cleaning, doing laundry, and getting this apartment comfortable for the kids has kept me from devoting any time to myself. Almost makes me angry while W rests at her parents where shes alone and its quiet. I still don't know where life will go right now, and i am very confused as to what my W keeps saying. I am literally in limbo now more then ever it feels. I just keep praying she will find herself again and return to me and the kids a new woman. How long and when is unknown. I am trying to have no expectations, but she continues to say what she says which leads me to hope, and potentially being hurt more.
Thank you everyone for the comments and concerns. We are trucking along, and learning to adapt. I wish everyone the best and hope you all have a great weekend.
I recommend you file the paperwork and pay the fee.
Mind you - I'm not saying things are over. I think your wife is suffering from a serious depression. She might well be a candidate for antidepressants. Or possibly you're wrong and she's on drugs after all.
But whatever it is it's serious, and her behavior is beyond garden variety MLC. There's no telling how long it might take for her to come out of it.
In the meantime - the first divorce offer is often the most generous. You might want to nail it down while you've got it. You can always choose to be more generous with her than the agreement allows. But it's entirely likely she might come back in a month or two and wang full custody and all the money. Most of the time that generous first offer isn't on the table long. I'd nail it down by filing.
Hi Shepard....I hope you are doing ok. I sincerely understand how difficult it is; I feel I'm getting stronger as every day passes; I hope you can feel the same.
This whole thing is ridiculous; I just simply don't understand it and how they arrive at the decisions they feel they need to make;
Its a burning desire to escape and to abandon their past life and seek something new, at the expense of everyone else, even their children. I don't even think they know themselves what they are trying to escape from; its justified by portraying you in a negative light; I've experienced this first hand, but you have to rise above it. it also sounds like your wife is trying to keep the door open just in case things don't turn out well for her.
As difficult as it is and for your own mental and emotional well being, try and live your life as if she is not coming back; engage in activities that make you happy and bring you a fulfilling life; get involved in your children and immerse yourself in their lives. Pursue career opportunities and develop your life at work.
I am trying to view this as an opportunity for personal growth and to develop my own personality.
Whilst there are plenty of occasions I have just wanted to give up, I now refuse to sit on the sofa in tears over one woman; whilst I love her to bits, want my future to be with her and desperately want to keep my family together, you simply cannot force someone to be in your life;
we all know they are struggling with unresolved issues that are now playing out; they cant be reasoned with and it cant be talked out; you can only allow her to deal with it in her own time.
if you start living your life as if she is not coming back and she sees you are moving on without her, that could stir feelings in her; I see it sometimes in my wife. It sends mixed messages, which adds to the pain. If she knows you are always going to be there, what incentive does she have to come back?
I know its easier said than done; my wife announced the other day, that we are no longer a family; what a terrible thing to say after 23yrs? You will be doing things without your best friend and number one fan by your side and I know that is incredibly difficult but you can do this;
allow her the time to be by herself; allow her the time to miss you; allow her the space to feel what life without you feels like.
Its hard, I know; I'm taking the spotlight off my wife and thinking about me now; stand tall and be the lighthouse. Switch the light off though in your own time.
Feeling trapped and in limbo is a tough place to be
It remember that you are not a powerless victim
You have power in this situation and choices
Agree her words and actions are playing with your heart and hurting you
Do you really want to subject yourself to that
I have this feeling she wants to keep her stuff at your place partly to mark her territory and announce to any potential dates that you are taken
I know you have not mentioned any desire to date and I have never done that either and do not suggest it but I hate these actions which keep you firmly planted as her backup plan
I personally would decline keeping her stuff with you
She wanted this separation so let her have it
I think it is good for her to dislike some things about it
And to see you living in a space comfortably with your children and without her
Hello everyone, i hope life has been treating everyone well. I read everyone's replies, and kept coming back to catch up on everyone's stories. I have always appreciated everyone's advice, i just wish i was better at following it. I also wish i could offer the same thoughtful advice i have been consistently and so kindly given here, but knowing my sitch and the fact that i have been so horrible at following it, i feel i am the last person to offer any advice. I do care and follow a lot of peoples stories, but this is the reason i very rarely comment on any of them.
Its been a month since i last posted and wanted to give an update and vent a little. I have been stuffing all the pain and emotions inside for the last month. That hasn't helped!
Shortly after my last post, i learned my Ex W filed our divorce paperwork, on 7-17 i believe. She did this without notifying me of it, despite our continued communication daily. She continued picking up our daughter and bringing her to my home after work. She stays and visits for a short while, but nothing to long. We have spent some weekends together doing family things. She had kept on with the same R talks. That her and I will be together again someday. Sometimes she would say soon, other times she would say 6 months to a year. She would flip flop back and forth. She has initiated sex occasionally, and other times i would, which she consents to. Over the last month, we have had sex about 13, maybe 14 times. I continued to let myself be strung along with her words and actions.
Since i have moved out, which is going on 5 weeks now, Ex has not done one thing to have the kids stay with her at her parents home. She has not bought them anything to accomadate them to stay a weekend, or even a night with her. She asked long before we moved out and i agreed to let them stay with her, every other weekend or so. D constantly asks to stay with her, but Ex has done nothing to make it happen. They have no bed, TV, toys or internet! Absolutely nothing for them to do if they stayed over. But, she has spent plenty of money on her own room! A new bed, pictures and sayings to hang on the walls, new drapes and blinds, paint, new ceiling fan, etc. She asked me to help her paint and decorate her room last weekend, which i agreed to. Her and I painted, cleaned, and decorated all last weekend! She was very appreciative and thankful for my help. Deep inside, it was torture for me! It brought back so many memories over the years of us decorating OUR rooms and our children's, and now here i am doing it for her, and her alone!
Then the painfully hard reality of MLC reared its ugly head once more. Despite her constant talks of a positive future for us, and that she was not seeing anyone, "I swear on the souls of our children, i am not dating anyone" it has become apparent she has lied considerably to me about it. She has been dating the OM! This past weekend, we had a heart to heart discussion after completing her room. I asked her to "clear her conscience" and to stop lying to me. She admitted to communication with him daily, and that they have been on several dates. I asked her why she feels she needs to continue lying to me about this, especially after she has divorced me! She said its because she didn't want me to move on and find another woman for myself. She begged me to "wait for her"! "I can't stand the thought of you being with another woman" and "you told me you would love me forever, you need to wait". I explained how ridiculously despicable it was to say and ask this of me while she continued to date this piece of trash! She acknowledged this and reiterated her requests, knowing that its absurd and stated she is being selfish, but is completely serious with the request.
I asked her whether she intended to continue seeing this worm and her answers struck me deep within my soul. She is dead set on continuing their fantasy R, while i sit in my apartment alone with our kids. Despite my S thinking this guy is dishonorable, D saying he is mean and a bad man, and her parents thinking he is a sexual predator, they both somehow believe they could have a future! Since she is living with her parents, she has not told them she is dating him otherwise they would be furious with her. Ex MIL recently stated to me that Ex (her D) has broken her heart with all of this and that it will never be healed. She asked me repeatedly, while crying, "where did i go wrong as a parent?"! I understand now why she so easily gave me full custody! Her behavior is despicable. I asked her to keep my daughter out of her R with this scum! His daughter is close to my D's age, and they are friends at school (daycare). I have texted the worm, demanding he not communicate with my daughter, in anyway whatsoever! I have contemplated a restraining order and removing her from her daycare! His D is turning 6 sometime this month i believe and i have made it very clear to my ex that i do not want our D anywhere near this worm, and that she promise me she would not lie and take our D to his D's birthday party! She promised she wouldn't, but i don't trust her!
So after yesterdays discussion about our D and her promises, i told her i was ready to break all contact with her, outside of the children, and that i was prepared to move on with my life, without her. Life goes on and i may one day find another woman to fall in love with. Though i wish it was her, i can't possibly do what she was asking of me. She said she wants a future for us still, but said she feels she has caused to much damage to work on our R, but reiterated that i WAIT forever for her! She asked to stay the night with the kids and I this coming weekend. I said i would consider it! I can't believe i am actually considering it though!
The last 5 weeks have been so painful! I never get a full nights sleep, and i am still in denial of what's happened! I know what i need to do, i just keep hitting a wall, or continue to let her rope me back in! I am starting to believe there is no hope for her and I and it crushes my soul to realize that our R and family is done! I hate to admit it, but this whole ordeal has caused me to question my faith in God and my faith! I don't understand how any God would allow these things to happen to families that used to be full of love and good memories! Sometimes i feel i may be entering my own crisis! Sometimes these thoughts of abandoning everyone peek in. The urge to just disappear and start all over alone! My biological father abandoned my mother and i on xmas day when i was a child, so maybe it's in the blood. Believe me when i say, i would never do this to my children, but why these thoughts keep entering my mind are beyond me! Maybe its depression or my own crisis is beginning.
So i wanted to say this to anyone who will listen! Take heed of the good advice you are offered on this forum! How you good people do what you do is so commendable and takes so much courage and hard work! There truly are some very strong, respectable, and honorable people here who know how to help! You just need to listen and accept your reality! Don't be like me and disregard their advice and continue to let yourself sprial into the depths like i have. I have reached a dark and lonely place and would wish this upon no one! I am fighting a losing battle and i need a new plan of attack!
Thank you in advance for listening, have a great weekend everyone.
Good on you. Don't be her plan B. Your actions need to mirror/enhance that. Best wishes
Oh gosh, Shephard,I am so sorry you are in so much pain!
But when I read your story, I see you as a rock and a light, not a failure.
I think you are doing great, and it is totally natural that you would want to have sex with your own wife. That's what marriage is supposed to be. Of course it's confusing because of her craziness but your response is totally normal and even righteous.
If you are a Christian, you need to put this battle in the context of the spirit. You are stuck on what she is saying, and those are all lies! Your wife is blinded and her thoughts are not of God. God is not causing this! He is there to help you get through this and stay close to Him even while your wife turns her back on God and her family.
Do you know about rejoice ministries? Look them up and sign up for the daily e-mail and listen to the podcasts and they will get you back on track with hope and faith.
Going dark on your W seems like a good idea, you need to heal and maybe she needs to feel some boundaries. But don't do it to change her behavior, just do it for yourself, to heal. And do it in love, not in bitterness.
Pray with your MIL and keep having faith in your W, in her ability to get through this, for the counterfeit relationship to play itself out, and for God to heal all the hurt.
Every morning I wake up with that same feeling of my blood being battery acid. So I start every morning by praying to God to help me find courage, patience, hope, faith, all the fruits of the spirit. And I repeat to myself that I am staying in God's will. And gradually God gives me those graces and I can face the day.
What you are doing is hard, and it's going to hurt. But your wife's MLC is not the truth of your love. Let your suffering draw you closer to God, talk to God about your doubts and fears, meet with your pastor. You can do this!
shepard - I am sorry you’re in so much pain. Your ex filing the paperwork secretly is a real gut punch.
She is in a very mixed up place right now. Wanting you to wait while she does her thing - admitting the ludicrousness of it but still wanting you too wait. Wow.
You are so right. Lying is espically hard too take. You know you can’t trust her, she is going to lie - she is driven to do it.
Very good for you to realize the denial you are in, and what you need to do. The accumulation of bad nights sleeps will cause a lot of bad thoughts and feelings, and it will mix you up a lot.
Sometimes i feel i may be entering my own crisis! Sometimes these thoughts of abandoning everyone peek in. The urge to just disappear and start all over alone!
I remember those feelings. The confusion, the fear, the feeling of losing my own mind - what the h3ll is going on. shepard you are in emotional turmoil. How you cope with this will determine what direction your path is going to go.
I have reached a dark and lonely place and would wish this upon no one! I am fighting a losing battle and i need a new plan of attack!
I was in that dark and lonely place, it is terrible! During time in my own personal little h3ll I hit rock bottom, any lower and I would not be here. I am not trying to compare scars or wounds with you, I am here to encourage you.
A person can find a way out. You can find a way out. There are many guides here willing to help, many hands to lift you up, many to show you the path hidden within the darkness. However, you have to walk it, we cannot carry you - we will walk it with you!
Yes you are fighting a losing battle, and you need a new plan “of attack”.
Change how you look at this. It is not a battle - quit fighting. Do not attack - just get a new plan.
I think you have a good idea on what to do.
Limit your contact with her. You need to give her space and time. You need a break from her also.
Focus on you and kids. Keep your mind on what is really important. You will get through the pain and terribleness.
Keep posting and venting. Get it out, don’t let it fester.
You are moving forward towards accepting what is at the moment unacceptable.
Stay strong.
Agree with Roist and Gerda and DNJ
My w filed for d without telling me too
And she too wanted to chase OMs and have me wait
And I too spent many months here not following the advice
And got to that very dark and lonely place
Where I wanted to run away
Or just die
To end the torture
When you are ready
And maybe you are now
You will start to change
And just live in the moment
Resolve what you want to do today
And commit to that
My w was dreadfully afraid I was going to find a new w
And I assured her I would not
This was the wrong thing to do
At advice of d b coach
I stopped R talks
I started going out
And doing overnights and not telling her where I was going
She made assumptions
And did not like what I was doing at all
She started having real fits
Despite the fact that she was in a relationship with an OM
She wants you to stay right where you are
Be her plan b
And this in turns angers you and depresses you
Rightfully so
Stop stuffing those feelings
Stuffing will destroy you from the inside out
I know from experience
And do you have a male friend IRL with whom you can talk
This can help you a lot too
Not a relative
A friend in whom you absolutely trust
To whom you can tell everything
Good morning shepard.
How have you been doing?