This place has helped me over the last few weeks.
Me and my W have been together for 14 years, married for 5. We have 2 children.
Our relationship has never been perfect, but we have always enjoyed each others company and got on, not too many major arguments.
We moved to another country 4 years ago for a better life for us and the kids, the W struggled to begin with, but has now accepted life here.
So, 3 weeks ago, she tells me that she no loger loves me that way and wants to split. I know she has been having an emotional affair with someone at work, which has now transpired to a physical affair. As we have split, ive not harrased or asked about it. She was also adamant that we tell the kids that we have split, which i did not want to do, but we did.
Heres the tricky part, she wants us to still live together for the kids to maintain the family ethic. Ive moved into the spare room.
Is this a mid life crisi?
Welcome to the MLC Forum. I am pasting in Cadet's Welcome thread w/lots of homework, so read and ask questions as they come along.
Welcome to the MLC Forum. You will meet people who are at various stages of dealing w/the fallout of their spouses being MIA. I am going to post below, Cadet's Welcome Posting. Please read the links and then come back and ask questions, if you should have any.
Welcome to this board.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmMichele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmKeep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296Things you should know as the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701017#Post2701017Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1WAS showing you positive signs? WAIT - READ THIS!
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2772942#Post2772942Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
_________________________
Me-63, D30,S29
Thanks for the details, i do have DR book and i am currently reading through it.
More about my situ.
The W was a stay at home mum before we moved, she got a job in a hospital canteen working with many women of all ages. She started to change a bit after about 12 months working there. W then took a promtion to be trained as a chef, this is when the major changes started happening. W hated mobile phones and facebook, but she seemed to be more freqeunt on both. Also, over the last 12 months she has been buying exercise equipment and frequently using it.
Why did you opt to move to the guest bedroom? If she's the one that wants the "split", then she should be the one living in the guest bedroom, not you.
Also, please, please keep in eye on your checking/savings accounts, as well as your credit cards. If she follows the general rules of MLC, she's going to begin spending money like water and will not care how the bills are paid or what you and your children need in the way of material things.
I opted to move the guest bedroom, as its better for me as she goes to work early. I can still claim it back. She does have a credit card, but i dont have access to that account. But i do have access to all the other accounts. Im not too sure what she would spend the money on.
I was curious as to why you had moved out. Thank you for your response. At some point, you may wish to move back into the master bedroom and allow her to move into the guest bedroom, i.e., needs to see what it's like to live as a "separated spouse" in the same home. We do urge our posters to stay in the master bedroom and the home as much as possible, but ultimately, it is up to the posters to decide what is best for them, not their wayward spouses.
Now about the accounts. She has a separate credit card...is your name on that card? You may want to run a credit history/check to see how things are going in your household. Yes, some of them have gotten credit cards that we do not know about or have taken out loans. Yes, this is done often here. You need to be the adult here and check on these things. She may be wracking up expenses that you may become responsible for because you are married and living in the same household.
Trust me when I say this...they become very creative in what they spend money on. They are children/teens in adult bodies and they will spend just to spend because they need to be happy. They do not realize that happiness comes from within, not by external things.
You need to be the adult here. Keep the focus on you and your children for they are going to need you now more than ever.
They find ways to spend money
MY XH was gambling and he was never a gambler before and always OK
with money b4 crises
They change into different people
Its tricky living with the MLCer and difficult and is it best for the kids?
IDK but some others who actually have lived with the MLCer for long periods of time may chime in
They say reconciliation is better if spouse lives home
but many will stay home until the next best option comes along-
Try to focus on the kids, get some therapy, read, take care of yourself
If she Is in MLCs it gets trickier as time goes on and it last for a long time
2-7 years
not your fault nothing you did or can do to change it-
Hang in there
W has told you what she wants
What do you want
Do not just follow her orders
My w wanted to see other men while still living together for the kids
I said I do not believe in open m
My w wanted me to give her the house and kids and money to support her as she is a s a h m
In the fog i agreed to all
It took me a while for my fog to lift
The people here helped
To regain my strength and confidence
To find my b@lls again
To say no to her and her fantasy
I let her go to pursue her fantasy
But made it clear it did not include me
W has stated our relationship is over.
She wants to persue the relationship with work colleague.
She still wants us to live together for the kids, she still cooks cleans and irons for me. I also do my share of this too.
I try not to engage in conversation, but she comes into the same room as me some days and talk about things. Medical issues and other things.
Has i had noticed she was changing, i got very clingy and needy before she dropped the bomb.
I'm not sure if i should go dark or not.
Wierd turn of events last night. I said to the W that i was going out and wont be back till late. She asked me where i was going. I just said out with friends. She replied "is there something you want tell me". I said no. She then said that i thought we were going to be open with each other. My response was anything but my private life. I only went to play soccer for few hours.
She then locked herself in her bedroom until i left.
The night before she was qyite misserable, so i asked if she was ok, she said yes. Then a few minutes later, she said that she thought this was fake. I questioned her on this, but she then told me to forget what she said.
Is this the rollercoaster ride?
The best thing you can do is to try not to focus on everything she says or does. The motto around here is believe nothing of what they say and only 50% of what they do.
She is going to have many, many days of being up and down and all around on the coaster. The best thing you can do is not to join her on the ride.
Keep the focus on you!
So last night the W said she doesnt know me anymore. This was due to the changes i have been making to myself. I dont get frustrated anymore, im getting on with my life and im also a cheerfull person.
But she did say that what she has done has had possatives on me. I could have screamed.
I think It may be a good idea from your previous postings to go out again with some friends or play soccer..dont tell her where
let her wonder what you are up to
they don't like it when we go out
because we are the back up plan-
let her get a glimse of the future if she continues with her A
Thanks for your input.
Im going out again next week. Have plans for mon, wed and Friday.
Wednesday and Friday will be late ones. Also taking the day off work on thursday to get some new clothes.
Agree
Keep going out
Warning
When I started doing that w projected that I was seeing other women
She will make assumptions
Let her
She does not want to be a w
Do not treat her like one
The going out thing prohably will not turn her around
but may make her think
she still has her journey and MLC is a long one
But going out will help you meet some new friends and create a new life on your own (just in case)
You will also have some fun and some distractions from the craziness
you will see that you can and will be ok no matter what
Many people out there have experienced this in their M and there is a common bond for those that have walked similar roads-
Thanks for all your responses. Ive been reading the forums like crazy over the last 3 days and i may be mistaken thinking she is in mlc. I now think she is a wayward wife.
So my thinking fpr the next couple of days are as follows.
*kick here out of the MR bedroom
* sort the money out ( she 4k on the credit card, could be bjt more. She told me for 4k)
* follow sandi's rules, which i have been for the last 2 weeks, except for not angagjng in conversation. (But when i done this this morning she was grumpy, should i keep doing this?) I seem to have got the where you are going questions when we were engaging in conversation quite regulary.
* The hail mary. (Say i cannot be your friend while she engages with this other man)
If she is WAS or MLC..
you can do pretty much the same
A coach told me at the beginning of my journey
Do what works
If it brings them closer do it
if it pushes them away don't continue
But most of all- you have to do what feels best to you
We can not allow them to walk all over us or continue with behaviors that are just destructive/ disrespectful-
Yes, I would advise as people are implying here -- don't try to do something to influence her behavior or choices. You have a long haul ahead of you. You probably don't believe that. I didn't either. But you have to keep repeating to yourself like a mantra that nothing you do can change her or bring her back. You can do things to drive her further away but she will only come back when she plays out her fantasy and hits rock bottom. You can wait for the resurrection of your marriage, that is what I am doing and it has been five years. But you have to accept its death as quickly as you can so that you can find all the joy in your life that you can, so you can provide fun and happiness for your kids, etc. I think we all take a long time to accept the reality of the situation, and we all regret the time we wasted obsessing over what the MLCer is doing, saying, thinking. I find it much easier to accept an in-home MLC spouse through my faith; if you don't have faith, it is I think harder because it's extremely difficult and you can't keep assuring yourself that you can do it with God's help because it's what God wants. But I personally think it is better for the kids to have both parents there if you can manage to keep being happy and strong for your kids.
Thanks for your input.
Im finding it really hard today. The W has not done too much house work this week, not even done the kids pack ups. Its drivingbme crazy and i just vented out to her.
Not good. I want to stay in the same house as my kids, but we are both finding it difficult. I need to start composing myself, im finding it hard to detach.
I am getting a life and going out.
She has now gone running to meet the OM.
W has mentioned that we may have to sell the house because our situation is not working. She complaining about my 180's, im playing with kids more often and not being grumpy or angry.
What am i doing wrong?
Here parents lent us 30k to buy this house, she keeps goading me that i owe them this money.
I'm spinning!
MLC was one of the most difficult situations I have faced
so what you are feeling is normal-
this is hard
You may be doing everything right but your Wife still needs to justify her affair so she will see your 180s as wrong
don't let her be the judge of what you are doing-\
We do this work for us
In the end, yes it helps her it helps the kids and everyone else
but it may not bring them home, and MLC takes a long time
so continue doing you-
This is out of your hands, her responses or how bad a mother and she is right now
do your part, do her part for the kids as best you can-
and take care of you-
this is temporary and if you continue trying to work on you, only THE BEST will come back to you in one way or another
hang in-
Thank you.
I have been carrying out sandi's rules. But she was saying last night, that she feels like i'm smothering her. I'm GAL and giving her as much space as possible, I don't stay in the same room as her, if she's downstairs i go upstairs with the kids.
This is mental.
scoobs7, I understand what you are going through and I am sorry. Please know that what you are feeling is normal.
You asked - What am I doing wrong?
Try not to look at this as what are you doing right or wrong. In her mind it is mostly all wrong, then maybe some right, then back to wrong. You get the idea. Heck somehow I was wrong for the furnace vent blowing air on to W and making her feel cold.
As peacetoday said, you could be doing everything right and W will see it as wrong. She needs to do that, to justify what she is doing.
Hopefully you can see that the question you are asking yourself is - What am I doing that W thinks is wrong? Try not to look at it that way. Do not let her judge your actions. You judge your own actions. (btw I found that pretty darn tough at the beginning)
So if you start asking the question - What am I doing (right / wrong)? And you answer it for yourself. You will do the right thing. You will do right for your kids. You will do right for scoobs7.
Focus on you and your kids. You will do the right things for the right reasons.
Hang in there, I know how difficult this is. Post, ask questions, vent, whatever it takes.
We are here for you.
Scoobs, maybe you should read my posts -- my H has a lot of the same wacky ideas about money, in fact way way wackier. He wants us to sell our house, which is also a rental business, because he doesn't think he should have to work. He stopped helping out with anything at all about five years ago -- I mean, he doesn't even take out the trash. He hasn't given me a penny for our kids this whole time and has left me with all our debts and still asks me for money constantly. And yet despite all that keeps saying that I am "keeping him" from what is rightly his, his half of our house's equity and hates me for it, says I control everything, etc.
The point is, ALMOST NOTHING SHE SAYS IS TRUE. But you doubt yourself so you think that you should listen and try to see her point of view. What we are all trying to tell you is that you will have to detach in a huge way. A friend told me to think of my H as a talking doll -- e.g., the doll plays a set series of responses depending how you shake it or stand it up or sit it down, etc. You wouldn't take any of those things as "truth," or really let it concern you, even if it was a cute doll and had to be present at your child's b-day parties. I am waiting for my H and want to restore our M, but I still find this metaphor to be really helpful when I get confused or think there is no way I can do this. I have been doing something completely impossible for five years now. I read your posts and you sound like you have not detached even a tiny bit. You have expectations of your W to do things around the house, to do her fair share, to treat you with kindness. She has an OM! That is a sign that she does not care at all about what is fair, just, true, right, etc. She has no moral compass and sets no value on your convenant.
All you can do is detach and enjoy your life without her, and forgive her when she returns. If you can't do that, then you have to choose separation. There is no other option and no way out, you are not going to get anywhere thinking how crazy it is or how wrong or unfair. It is all those things, and all you can do is accept it and choose to stand for your marriage or don't accept it.
If you have any religious leanings, I highly recommend Rejoice Ministries. I couldn't have waited even a month without that, and I have been waiting five years. Living my own life as best as I can, but not "moving on" in terms of trying to divorce and find a new mate.
Sending you love and support and a great big virtual scissors so that you can cut that rope, drop that rope, detach, detach, let her go, focus on you, love your kids, find out what joys life has that have nothing to do with your W, as hard as it is to do that and still keep a corner of your heart open for her.
By the way, knowing how property would be divided has helped me detach and feel strong about what is actual possible. Anything you have as a married couple, including money from her parents or a yellow washcloth she likes, it's all community property and would have to be split. I don't believe in divorce but looking at what the law requires helped me to be clear when my H said crazy things like what your W is saying.
Thank you for valuable support. It does help.
Yes, I am finding it hard to detach as we still live in the same house together. I don't want to leave my kids. Plus the mortgage on the house is very high and both our incomes cover it.
Everytime she wants to go out (meet the OM). She texts me to ask if its ok. Is she taking the mickey. Then while shes leaving, she says bye to me.
Do i just let her go to the OM. If i tried to stop her, would it not push her more towards him?
She is looking to you as her "father/authority" figure. Keep in mind that she's acting out like a teen and when that happens the spouse becomes the authority figure that they tend to rebel against.
I would just leave her be. The more you try to stop her from seeing the OM, the more she will be determined to do so.
I know it's difficult, but try to keep the focus on you and your family, as you are the only adult in the house at the moment.
IDK what to say about the OM
We definitely cant stop them- but some of the guys here may advise better on a response to that because we certainly don't want to let them think it is ok
but Im not sure
I know my xh lied about his affair until the end when, I finally snooped and found out
He M her anyway- now he is D
Nothing I did was helpful either way
I kept my head in the sand and that gave him a wealth of time to figure out he wanted her and Filed-
ask some of the guys-
and remember try to focus on you
create some new and fun activites get some support-
You need to set a boundary on that for sure. Her doing it is bad enough; you do not have to hear about it. Living through my H's A was horrifying, and in my case it went on for a long time. I think it's over but I don't know if it is or if there are others. I get the sense there is no one anymore but it has been five years since BD. I think my boundary on that front helped me and helped him face the A on his own without any pressure from me. I think it is perfectly fine to tell her that out of respect for your marriage, you cannot discuss anything she chooses to do outside of the marriage. Tell her that you respect her choice to leave the marriage and that you will not listen to any details and that you do not want to know where she is going or what she is doing unless it is relevant to your kids. With my H, whenever he tried to say anything about it, I would just say, "That's between you and God," or "I have nothing to do with that. That's between you and God." It was so clear that I did not want to hear about it that he learned quite quickly never to bring it up though there were some very dark periods when he was texting OW in front of me, said some horrifying things about her/me, etc. But generally I never had to endure more than a few minutes of it, and rarely, because of the boundary I established and stuck to. I had trouble with boundaries in other areas, but writing this now I realize that I did very well with that boundary, which makes me feel a tiny bit good!
Please know that we all understand the agony you are feeling. It is a deep wound. Try to remember that it's kind of like any wound caused by someone else (e.g., getting kicked during a soccer game, getting a broken arm when someone rear-ends you) -- you didn't cause it. It happened to you and it wasn't your fault. The wound is going to hurt. A lot. For a long time. And when you have dark thoughts, like the thought that you can't take it anymore or the thought that you aren't worthy or that you aren't lovable or that the despair is too painful,just remember that those thoughts are like the dull ache you get from a broken arm. It's not a new wound each time, it's the same one you already have. A priest told me that once, and somehow it really helped me to deal with the pain and look at it from a distance.
Also in case it's not clear, I also understand because my H lives with us and has never left during the whole five years. But he does not sleep in our room that whole time either.
I have set boundaries and said that i don't want to know about her private life and that she does not ask me about my private life.
Theres not too much pain when she goes out. It just does my head in when she says bye to me.
KyH, that is a great idea!
RESTORED POSTING FOR KYH:
Hi scoobs, I have been reading your thread and I am sorry you are going through this but it will get better. I had a live in mlc w for quite awhile and it's rough, hang in there and focus on yourself and kids.
I noticed in one of your posts you mentioned w not making kids lunches and being frustrated. Things like this will have to be part of having no expectations. The mlc spouse really does check out. When she was in the house I was doing nearly everything. I did quit doing her laundry and set it aside.
In regard to your last paragraph above, what if you weren’t there for her to say bye to? If you know she's leaving take the kids before and go do something.
scoobs,
The reason you can't see anything is because the main frame is having some issues with some of the postings. Click on quick quote of the missing posting and you can read it.
Unfortunately, the moderators are not here 24/7, but we try to restore some of them when we catch them. This issue with the missing postings has been an ongoing problem for over a month.
You can read more about the different suggestions that we all have provided on the thread that I posted about missing postings.
Looks like a few of mine have gone missing too. They were both off an apple iphone.
Thanks for your valuable information KYH.
What do I do if she is ill, do i still go ahead with GAL plans?
Ive done dinner, all she has to do is put the kids to bed.
RESTORED POSTING
Thanks KYH.
I will have to continue what I am doing, I am being a bit dim as apposed to full on dark. I do some of the washing and cleaning. But she does the cooking and cleaning. I have stopped picking her clothes up from her bedroom floor, if she wants them washed, she has to bring them to the laundry basket.
This week she has managed to do the lunches for the kids and our dinner.
I have bought new clothes and she has commented that I look nice. She currently has the flue, I didn't do things I would normally done for her when she is like this. Just gave her space and let her be.
RESTORED POSTING FOR KYH
Looks like a few of mine have gone missing too. They were both off an apple iphone.
Thanks for your valuable information KYH.
What do I do if she is ill, do i still go ahead with GAL plans?
Ive done dinner, all she has to do is put the kids to bed.
My 2c but I would take care of the kids if xw was sick. I am also assuming they Are younger like mine. When xw is sick I treat her nicely like a friend, ask if she needs anything or offer soup, etc and then tell her to let me know if she needs something.
Kyh: I removed the quotes marks around his posting because they were showing up as numbers and symbols in your original posting.
My kids are 10 and 12.
I didnt do anything like you said i just left her be.
Ive gone a bit dim. She said tonight that i dont seem to communicate with her now. Am i doing the right technique?
The electric has been off all day. She had prepared food, but the time the electric came on, it was too late to cook it. She said she will cook it tomorrow. I said i wont be coming home from work as i will be going straight out from work. She asked me if this was now going to be every friday.
I said no, should i have said yes?
Not too sure if its mlc as she seems very content most days. Im confused what to do here?
Go dark/dim or be friendly but distant.
So last night the W said she doesnt know me anymore. This was due to the changes i have been making to myself. I dont get frustrated anymore, im getting on with my life and im also a cheerfull person.
But she did say that what she has done has had possatives on me. I could have screamed.
Sorry catching up late to your thread. Don't scream learn to look at the insanity and develop a sense of humor. My wife told me everything that was wrong with me at BD1, and at BD2 said she could never see me change in all the ways she needed. At that point I was already pretty aware of MLC but still stunned.
Along the way she told me multiple times how much I had changed, how happy I was and she was stunned. Every time after that she would try to get close, and seemed to question her judgement. I never allowed her to get close after that. But she did say multiple times how much she was right and that her decision had helped me too. So its part of the insane clown logic.
Just detach, remember they are very confused and upside down, and don't take anything seriously. And because it seems this is so early in replay my advice is stay dark and dim. This is just reactive to you, and is probably from fear or from wanting to control or not facing the truth of what they are saying. So just keep moving on, pretend she is not there, and do not react to her wanting to keep things as they were.
I'll tell you that I only reengaged after my wife approached me after almost a year and after not talking to me for weeks on her own. She seemed to have a clarity and presence I had not seen in a year, she was very open and mostly sane. Only then did I start matching her step for step, no more no less. But I think your wife is nowhere near there yet.
So ive been out the last 2 fridays. The W wants to speak to me this morning. She says that there is an atmosphere in the house and the kids are picking up on it. She has been looking at an house up the road from the family home. She asked me what i thought. I said for her to go and look at it.
Then she starts saying that i have been going out mon, wed and friday. My son has training on tues and thur. She says she feels like she on my beckon and call. I said she called an end to our R, she replied that it was the correct call and our marraige had been dead for years.
I dont think there is too much of an atmosphere in thr house, im just being dark with her.
Shes now sat in her bedroom with her hands in her head
I said i had to leave the conversation because it was starting to get emotional.
she then goes shopping come back 45 minutes later and starts chatting abouf the kids uniforms for school amd things she bought at the shop.
Then sits on the other sofa opposite me and asks if she can take thkids on holiday to meet up with her family, i said i had no problems, ill stay behind and look after the dog.
Then she stares at the floor for the next 5 minutes.
Ive just beem through the loop to loop of the rollercoaster. Wheeeeeeee
Your W is very depressed. From a conversation about school, to visiting relatives, to staring at the floor all in a short period of time.
Keep focusing on yourself, GAL when you can, and work on detachment.
You are doing fine. Hang in there.
I agree with DnJ. She sounds so confused. My H does this all the time too. That staring off into space, the total despair and then suddenly so up and overconfident and either surly or weirdly calm. Your W has no idea what she is doing/saying. You should especially not take in anything she says about your M being dead for years. All of our MLC'ers say the same thing. It's so hard not to protest or explain, I know! But whenever I hear that stuff and manage to remember that it's not true, I get a lot of peace.
Thanks for your input.
After these events and later on the afternoon she acidently smashed a glass, lost her temper and left the house for a drive in the car (run off to see the OM), came back 3 hours later. While she was out my daughter kept asking where she was, i replied that mummy needed time to herself. She wanted to call her, but i said the leave mummy alone, was i right to stop her ringing?
She came back all happy. She has an history with drugs, should i be concerned?
She came back from work today quite happy. I needed to pick my car up from work which was 2 hours walk away, so i a said i was going out and left. I come back and she is sleeping on the sofa. Then she wakes up and is quite offish with me.
So i went outside and played with the kids for the next 3 hours. Now im upstairs out of her way.
I dont know if going dark is working. She was talking to her mother on skype tonight, i was in the next room. Shes telling her mother that she is looking at living at another house. She saying to her mum that she feels like a stranger in her own house, because of the way i am. She complained to her mum, that when she came home from work that i went out for 2 hours. And then she says that we not really in the house together that much.
She was also talking to them about the money that they gave us, they said they dont want it back, but she was sayimg, that your going to give him that money. They said it was for the family, she then tried to spin it that why would you want to give me the money. She has some serious issues with me.
Feels like i'm pushing her away.
Im so confused!!
scoobs: going dark is not a tactic that should be "working" it is for you. It is meant to keep your from constantly thinking about, focused on, and being hurt by your wife. It is not for manipulation. Also please realize that whatever is going on it is in the YEARS timeframe, not days or weeks. I know this is hard to hear, I know we all think maybe our case will be different and they will just "snap" out of it. But that does not happen.
You have to accept whatever she is about to do she has to do alone. Protect yourself and protect your kids. Everything else will clarify over the long term, whether she will be able to find her way out of this or not. Nothing you do will make any difference.
You are confused because you are engaged and still not detached. You are confused because she is incredibly confused and you are being dragged around by a confused and broken person and none of this makes sense. You will start to right yourself and not be confused once you detach, go no contact and put the focus firmly on yourself and your kids.
If this sounds like a broken record, it is. But it is the right record, please for your sake start listening to it.
BTW you are in the VERY early days, everything is still raw and very very fresh and I am wondering if some parts of you can not yet accept this is really happening. This is normal, we all went through this. It is an insane situation and we keep applying "sane" rules to it. The sooner you realize it is not a normal situation, it is not sane, and she is in a mental health crises the sooner you can start stabilizing. This of her as having a mental health breakdown and is in an institution, would you look at her behaviour applying normal logic and expecting anything from her in that case?
How do i go no contact when we have kids and still live in the same house?
I think she is trying to play games now. I go out every mon & wed to play sports. I normally don't get home until 9pm. I get a text today asking if i am going to pick my son up from footy. My response was yes. Then i imedietly get a text "what time will you be home, i want to go out if its OK. My response was 6.10. She goes out at the same time i normalky do and returns at 9pm.
I had previously said that she does not have to ask me if she wants to go out, just let me know.
Then go dark which is as little contact as possible. Only discuss factual things about kids, set up clear and hard boundaries of interaction. This is whatever works for you, maybe just text messages. Also is it possible to minimize interaction in the same house? How would you deal with a room mate that was sharing your house but you knew nothing about nor liked particularly?
Yes I know this is very hard, this person looks an sounds like someone you knew, loved and shared a life with. But she really is not the same person.
You have to start finding your own footing and it will be very hard until you can separate emotionally and even physically.
Thanks marvin.
Got the anger lastnight.
Didnt tell her i was going out for a few hours, but she can just leave the house and dissapear when she likes.
Sent her the utility bill to pay, that was wrong, because i didnt send an explanation with it.
Made food for me and the kids the night before, but i didnt ask her. She supposed to be on a diet.
Shes going out on friday and wants to know what time i get home from work, so she can go out. (This one is playing games, as i have been out the last 2 fridays straight from work).
I'm also dressing smarter which is getting noticed in work, but i get scanned up and down by the W, every time i come home.
But im doing good, no shouting back, just taking it.
Trying to detach, got plenty of GAL. Following sandies rules.
So me and the W had a long chat today.
She still thinks shes done nothing wrong, but admitted she was talking to other man with messages on her phone while we were together. Still doesnt see anything wrong with that.
She started with the tears and said she is worried about her future because she doesnt get paid well. She said that this is the type of thing that she should have been doing in her 20's. That if i stay in the house she will have nothing, no security, no deposit for a house.
She still mentions that she wants to look at moving out as she finds our situation uncomfortable. I dont think i could afford the mortgage on my own, unless i get a lodger in, or my bussiness venture really picks off.
She also complaining that our arrangement is like bussiness, that we don't talk to each other. She wanted to put a date to end our arrangement. Which i did not agree too.
So i come home from work at get hit with w saying we need to sell the house she said it will make the split official. Shes been telling this to her mother too. I said i dont want to sell the house and will be keeping it. She got quite nasty, saying that other option is to leave, but she does not want to do this and give the kids the impression that shes leaving them.
She feels like im forcing her to stay. She thinks the marital home will get to keep the kids.
Is this normal for mlc? Im not too sure its mlc, as she is quite happy most days.
Do i sell the house, her parents have some money behind them to get the lawyers involved if i hold out.
My head is spinning.
Well, she is certainly in la la land for sure. I am so sorry you are having to deal w/this.
Here's my take on the situation, if you can afford to remain in the house, then keep it. I wouldn't sell anything until the ink is dry on the divorce decree. Selling it now, in her mind, would give her a clean break and money in the pocket.
If she wants to leave, she will leave. That is her decision to make...but you are the sane, mature person in the mix and I would most certainly not put a "for sale" sign in my front yard. You and your children need a place to live and why would you up root them just because your wife doesn't want to live there?
The only person who is forcing her to stay is herself. She is looking for any excuse and isn't woman enough to walk out the door...she wants you to tell her it's okay to leave...don't do it. Listen and allow her to make that decision on her own.
I would also suggest, if you have not done so yet, seek the advice of a lawyer...but unless you are divorced...no, I wouldn't think of selling at this time.
Thanks job.
I think if we sold the house we may have a loss.
Hearing her mother say the same thing has hit me for 6. She has been very good to me.
I did say that it was her decision if she left, im not forcing her out the door. If she leaves, i will probably have to give her 1/2 the contents.
She was doing all this while the kids were in the other room. They could both probably hear her. She has also akded D12, if she would stay with mum if she had her own house. I think this is bad, bringing the kids into it.
Later she insults my mother, so i left her there. Went back after i cooled down and asked for an apollogy. Got a very stubborn one.
Then she started shouting that its all about me and saying that i used to call her sister over.
She then locks herself in her room crying.
Im just lost. This is nuts, i think i need her to leave.
You are right and it is nuts.
Mine actually said she was filing and that she was sure that I could find a nice place not far away. I think she was shocked, like yours, when I told her I wanted to keep the house. I guess in a way, I said it in hopes she would stay, but it didn't work. With the help of her mother, she found a nice condo and had enough room for our 2 youngest. I, on the other hand, kept the house and have my oldest with me 24/7 plus 3 dogs and 2 cats, all of which were purchased by the ex. In our decree, I also get my youngest 50 percent of the time.
There is no making sense of what they do or think and there is no way of knowing how long they will be in the fog. Just remember that this is a marathon and not a sprint. Just because they move out or sign D papers, doesn't mean that it is the end.
Your W is very confused.
If you want to keep the house, then keep the house. I would let her make her own decision on if and when she leaves.
Be careful with the idea of having to give her half of the stuff. You can if you want too, but you do not have too - not until an agreement is in place. Remember you will have two kids, a house, and yourself to look after.
My point is you need to see a L, to understand your options, rights, and responsibilities. It is just information, you do not need to set anything in motion if you choose not to.
I felt terrible going to the L and discussing separation. Looking back it was most needed, I had no knowledge or experience in these matters and required guidance.
Getting legal council will quiet some of the questions and fears of what will happen, give you a more firm ground on which to stand.
Keep the focus on you and the kids.
Hang in there.
Agree with all of the above especially seeing a L
Here is my additional advice
W insisted I leave many times
And every time it cut like a knife
Over time I developed my own script and became externally unflappable even if inside I was dying
My script
If we are getting divorced
I do not want this house
I will leave if that is what we legally agree to
Until that time I refuse to abandon our children
Come up with your own script
And stick to it
That is great advice Gordie.
If you want and can afford the house, and if it's underwater so there would be a loss if it sold, then keep the house. (Don't keep it if it's a bad investment however). You will need to be able to refinance it in your name only eventually and take her off the mortgage. If you are financially able to do that, then yes, keep the house.
Now, if she is in the same financial position and would be able to keep the house yourself you might have a fight on your hands over it, but doesn't sound like she wants that.
I agree with others that you should consult an attorney if you haven't already. You need to get a clear idea of what you financial picture might look like after divorce, what your rights are, and how you might negotiate with her once the time comes. You also can get some information from them about how to protect your assets. Until you have some formal paperwork, as long as she's living in the house, I think any new debts she incurs become joint debts in most places.
My mantra would be - "You know I don't want a divorce but I won't stand in your way if you feel you have to leave".
Oh - and you might look up comps to your house, calculate selling costs, and do a spreadsheet that shows there would be a loss if sold - which SHE would have to pay half of. That might sober her up about selling.
Correction:
Now, if she is in the same financial position and would be able to keep the house herself you might have a fight on your hands over it, but doesn't sound like she wants that.
Use no special characters
I did try it on google chromd on the iphone. Dont think there was any special characters in the first post. The 2nd did not have anything.
Can anyone get the 1st one back
Thanks for all your advice.
The W cannot afford to live in this house on her own. She does not earn enough.
I will start the process and get legal advice over the next few weeks.
After the situation setled down a bit, she was talking and saying she is worried about her future. She was also confused and said she felt like, but paused a didnt know what to say. So i said *running* she said yes, she felt like running.
She also said she felt like jumping off a bridge, which i daid ghat is no way to speak. She said she wasnt selfish enough to do that because of the kids.
Larer on, she then asks if it ok to go out on friday (to other man). I told her that she has to do what she wants, i have no control over you.
Not doing too well this morning. Im finding it hard to detach. I searched threads and read articles, but i cannot seem to find something that sinks in to help me.
Hello scoobs7.
I found that the quote, colon, and apostrophe cause problems. Your first post had quotes, second an apostrophe. If I avoid those characters my posts work fine. It may also work for you.
A few days ago I posted about my detachment on my thread. It took me months for detachment to finally take hold. Be patient it takes time. Detachment is a personal process, and not one size fits all. You will find your way.
Thanks Dnj.
Was you still living in the same house together.
We has been separated since BD.
Did that make it easier? I am not sure, I did not experience having a live in MLCer. You would think it would be easier, not having her come and go. However, the lack of her presence, the emptiness, it never ceases - a nonstop reminder, a constant reinforcement to attachment.
I found I needed to heal quit a bit before I could figure out how to let go.
I needed time to learn how to accept what was happening, to stop struggling against it.
It is so very difficult. Keep at it. You will find peace.
Please listen to DnJ about the missing postings.
Please do not use the quote, colon and apostrophe or any special characters. We are discovering that these items are hitting the glitch in the system and thus...missing postings.
Also, moderators are not here 24/7, so be patient if your postings disappear...we will come around when we are here and restore them for you. I want to thank those who helped you out by copying your missing posts for you.
So the W stays out all night (at other mans) and comes home at 9am the next day. Says good morning to the kids and then comes and sits on the sofa with me. All happy and asking me how the night was with the kids. Then saying my traininers that i was wearing are all the fashion now and some other conversation.
Im thinking its wierd behavior because she knows that i know where she goes. Am i correct in thinking this?
If i was sane i would feel guilty and try and avoid the other spouse.
This is the 2nd week in the row she has done this and acted the same way.
All part and parcel of MLC?
Yep, it is all part of the MLC parcel. She reminds me of someone who is sitting down have a chat w/her father, not her husband. In her mind, she sees nothing wrong w/what she is doing. You have to try to remember that, in her mind, she left the marriage about 18-24 months ago and a divorce is just a piece of paper to her.
Her empathy chip is broken and right now, she may feel a little bit guilty, but I would venture to say that the "chat" was to take a temperature check to see where you were at w/her going out all night as well.
You are not able to rationalize w/an irrational person because their vision is completely tunnel vision at the moment and it is all about them and only them.
Keep the focus on you and your children as much as possible.
I have been where you are
You can only control you
Yes my w thought she could do this and we could still be friends even friends with benefits
I told her that I had no interest in that and it hurt too much
Basically I went in house NC during this period
Inside I fluctuated between anger and despair
But I had to be strong for my kids
W was just a stranger to me
Besides logistics related to kids
We had nothing to discuss
At first she wanted to tell me about her exploits
I had to be very firm that I had no interest in her activities with OMs
When she would try to tell me things it hurt too much
I could not listen and validate
I just ended the conversation to protect myself
This was hard
Very hard
It is soul crushing
So please take care of yourself
No one else is taking care of you
I said in a prior post
Develop your own script
I am not good at improv
I have to practice my lines
Try this
She comes home at 9am and tries to sit down with you
You get up without saying anything
She says what is wrong with you
You say nothing
She says can we not be friends for the kids sake
You say it hurts too much right now to be friends
And then you walk out of the room
That was my script
Develop your own
Kids are my priority through this.
After her talk, i did leave and take the dog for a walk. Then came back and spent some time with my son up stairs. Me and the mids then went out for a few hours, wandering around an old quarry.
When we came home w was up stairs watching tv, so i went outside. She made dinner and me and thge kids were talking about our walk. I think it stressed her out as she was quite sad after that, just mopping around the house for the rest of the night. Me and the kids were upstairs watching tv while she stayed downstairs.
Her going out and staying out doesnt affect me, its just uncomfortable when she is all happy and chatty when she comes in. It feels like she is goading me. But i just respond with short responses, not realky interested in what she is saying.
Do not feel bad she is stressed out and sad
Let her deal with her own consequences
Assume kids know what mom is doing too
She is hurting you and them
There are consequences
You being uncomfortable means if does affect you
But maybe a lot less than it did me
I was repulsed and repelled
Do not let her goad you
Stay in control of you
Thanks for all your responses. They do help me dealing with this crazy time.
So todays antics.
W comes home from work and spends most her time in daughters room. Its my day to make dinner so i get to it and make a roast dinner for all of us. Everyone enjoys thier dinner.
So W parents ring on skype, she then retreats to her bedroom and closes the door. Finishes speaking to them and comes back out and sits at the dinning room table. I speak to my daughter and explain i may have a few trips planned in the next few months. When my business venture starts off.
So 20 minutes later the W comes in and says i need to give her notice if im planning any trips, i said off course i will give you plenty of notice. 10 minutes later she approaches me and says she is saving to get a bond for a rental, she also will be saving for furniture, i said she could take the stuff from down stairs, she just looks at me, then says i need a washing machine. Blah blah, blah. I said she could take the fridge and freezer from outside, she started getting a bit nasty, so i say, i dont think this is a good time to talk about this as D12 is about 2m away in bedroom with the door open, i said it is quite insensitive to the kids. She tells me f*** o** and storms off. I still stayed upbeat and pleasant after this. I think it does her head in, when i show it doesnt phase me.
And has been ignoring me for the rest of the night. I'm finding it quite comical some times.
Another day in paradise.
You're interfering with her fantasy of buying all new stuff for her apartment. How dare you suggest she take some of the old stuff!
Now, I don't recall your financial situation, but don't hesitate to consult an attorney. A fair deal would be dividing possessions and assets, then new stuff that each of you buy is your own individual expense. What wouldn't be fair is for joint funds to be used towards buying her nice new stuff while you get the old stuff - unless that's what you wanted.
Good job at being calm and detached
As kml notes this will really frustrate her
Expect serious escalation and button pushing
She will want to be back in control of you
When my w got to this phase
Everything was fair game
I was bad in bed
I was a terrible father
I was not a good provider
I was controlling
I was unsupportive
Etc etc etc
Reality had nothing to do with these complaints
But she tried everything to get me back under her control and apologizing
But I eventually stopped apologizing when I realized her complaints had nothing to do with me and the life we lived
I just listened and said nothing when I could
When I could not I said I am not participating in this discussion and left the room
scoobs, as for the excitement of furnishing a new place, it's just like when you first get married. They are decorating a new place for a new life that is going to be totally perfect. It is a fantasy. Be careful with not letting her take or hide any joint money for the fantasy.
Mine had her mother wrapped around her finger and didn't take anything from the house except her personal clothing. Her mother furnished a new condo for her. Three bedrooms worth of new furniture. I guess they don't want anything that might remind them of their home or the spouse they are leaving behind. Like you, we had an extra sofa and chair, but also had en entire dining room set with a hutch that is never used. Now I'm selling that to make room for my pool table.
Keep up the good work and stay as positive as possible.
So I went and got legal advice today. She cannot sell the house as its in joint names. We cannot also start divorce proceedings until a year after the split. I now keep a diary of all her actions and strange behaviors towards me or the kids. The lawyer did say that I should tell her that she should be paying her half of the mortgage. But that would open up World war 3. But I will keep it in mind if she presses about money issues.
Nothing really to report last night, She asks me something, then just doesn't hang around for the response. But I'm pleasant and singing. Getting a life and playing soccer.
Spoke a bit soon. Come home from work and she tells me she is going out. But i have to give notice to her if i intend to go out. Your are all correct that its one rule for them and stringent rules for us LBS.
She says bye as she leaves and i say bye back in a cheerfull tone. She turns round and repeats my tone and ask why i was being like that. I just responded i was reading an email at the time, which i was.
While you are still under the same roof
You may want to set a schedule for nights out
This way you do not have to discuss it
Unless it needs to change
Do not be the home body
Excellent job at being cheerful
It sure beats moping
I have preset nights that i go out. Which is a monday & wednesday.
But she did have a go at me about this, saying that she was my live in babysiter. Until i said that i was only picking 2 days out of the 7. The rest of the other days i enjoy spending with my kids. I do also go out on the rare friday. Maybe once a month. She can do what she likes, i have no expectations of her.
I'm finding this person quite amusing, shes a different person on a daily basis.
I also see her fantasy days when she goes out to be with other man all cheerfull and anxious or in a rush.
Live in baby sitter
I would take that as an insult
You are a proud father
Do not let her demote you
Maybe she feels like a baby sitter to her children
But you do not have to accept anyone speaking to you like that
Demand respect
Even if she has no self respect
You may not care if she speaks to you like that
But do you care if she refers to you as the live in baby sitter to your children
she is referring to herself as the stay at home babysitter, not me.
Next update.
She comes home from her night out and makes a racket when she comes in. The next morning after she has left for work, i get up to have my shower and notice she has got a 2nd elliptical trainer in here bedroom. It mad me laugh as we had one in the uk and i think we used it 6 times in 5 years, it was an expensive clothes hanger.
So i go out on Wednesday and do GAL activity. All was well when i come. except my daughter was upset and the W was trying to explain confidence issues, where she quotes shallow Hal, How nuts is that.
Then i come home from work on Thursday and she asks when i have some free time without the kids being there, can we have a chat. I say yes, then said i can meet you on my lunch break tomorrow, she hesitated but said yes. But i checked my calendar and i have a busy day. so i say we will have to reschedule. So she says that she doesn't want the kids to be here when we talk, but off she goes, telling me that the longer she lives with me the more resentful she feels for me and will eventually hate me. Then she barks on about the house, i keep my stance and I'm not selling it. This is while my daughter is in the same room as us.
She keeps going on that she hasn't got the money, calls me over for being many things.
She cannot saved for furniture, so i say again, take everything downstairs, If i was trying to get away from someone, i would grab what i can. She then says her dad has stopped talking to her as she wants to move out, she cries many times, blaming me for this.
I just sit there, listening and showing no emotion. Then dinner is ready and we all site at the dinning table and starts a normal conversation with me. Again, really nuts.
It's wiping me out a bit now, so i go out and take the dog for a walk. come back 90 minutes later and the D12 and W are on the sofa browsing the web and the W is laughing out loud at things they are doing.
I put my S10 to bed and say goodnight, The W says it's on 8:45, its a bi early for bed. We all normally go to bed at this time.
I'm a bit sluggish and not in my groove today. All the different personalities last night has drained me.
Shes now downstairs with D12, looking at houses to go and look at tomorrow.
Very manipulative with my D12.
She also just came up to me and wants to disscuss the finances tonight. Do i do this?
Wow, scoobs, we have a lot in common. Only my H has not ever told the kids about his many plans to move out.
I think you are doing admirably well. It is awful what she is doing to the kids, but trust that the truth will be clear to them later if not now, and they will appreciate how you managed to keep the peace even when your W was acting like a bratty teenager.
I don't think she wants to go but she just wants a relief from the pain, which she right now thinks is you.
I am also refusing to sell the house; it's hard.
Can you generate any income from your house? Maybe you can share any income you got from doing AirB or making an office space to rent out. Just thinking of ways to make her feel heard, even if what she wants is unfair and unreasonable.
On the other hand, I try to do this with my H and nothing satisfies his voracious appetite for blame and anger.
I would say that you should go to see a financial planner with her so that it can't be about your personalities or what is going on, but just the facts about money. But if you do meet with her, try the spreadsheet that was recommended to me so it's all in the numbers!
While we were going through the finacials she started button pressing and im ashamed to say i took the bait and lost it. Things were said which should have stayed in. It settled down later and left it there. But she was left at the table crying for about 20 minutes and then told me about another financail burden i would have pay. I just said ok, then she locked herself in her bedroom for the remainder of the night.
Realy let myself down, i feel terrible today.
Scoobs, will you please go look in the mirror and say, "SCOOBS, you are doing okay! You are going through something horrible and you are doing the very best you can!"
You are human! Your heart is broken and you are trying to hold it together under impossible circumstances all while living with a mentally ill person -- because even if it's temporary, MLC is a mental illness!
All the rules and regulations for us LBS's are to help us heal and survive. They are not to make us feel like crap when we can't follow them. Remember, you can't fix her. So when you mess up, you aren't causing any additional problems. You're just dealing with the problems that already exist in a way that might not be the best for your own healing and sanity.
When I read what happened, I didn't think, "Oh, gosh, scoobs really screwed that up and let himself down." I thought, Oh, poor Scoobs, I have been there and I know just exactly how he is feeling.
God will fix your mess. You can't. Forgive yourself first and then try to forgive her if you have any left over.
((((Scoobs))))
Thanks for your words Gerda. They do make sense.
It just flaws me that she is so calm and patient most days, it makes me doubt its a MLC because she doesn't have the major drama that i see so many people having.
New thread here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2798739&#Post2798739