New thread so time for some reflection. For my history, I started in new comers and came over to MLC a few months ago.
I am now 9 months post b d and thought I'd be d now. There are things that are better about my situation and things that are worse. I never imagined being where I am today but am learning to take one day at a time. My new mantra is to make the best of every day because it's all I've got. Thank you to everyone here who has supported me through this journey. I was in a very dark place when I got here and all of you have helped me get to where I am today.
What's better?
I am a better listener and w talks to me more.
I am a more involved dad and closer to my kids.
I take more responsibility for cooking and cleaning.
I am more attentive to w's sexual desires.
I am steadier and more detached from W's roller coaster.
I am more independent and content doing things without w.
I am more supportive of my W's work.
W no longer talks about POM.
What's worse?
W filed for d in March.
W and I sleep in separate rooms.
W keeps her distance in public.
W no longer goes to church with the family.
What's the same?
We are still married.
We are still living together.
We still have family meals.
We still go on dates.
We still have sex.
Weekly update:
So it's been a week since we separated our sleeping arrangements. There was a part of me that said okay, this is another step towards d. I didn't panic, I just accepted it. I got the support I needed and committed to being steady, to just being me.
So here's the unexpected: w has been pursuing me this week. W keeps wanting to have sex with me. W has wanted to engage in long non R talks. When we took our weekend getaway in March, I got the advice to treat her as a GF not my W. If I thought positively about things, I'd say that's where we are now: acting as BF and GF, living more independently of one another than before, still under one roof but in separate bedrooms, emotionally connecting, dating and enjoying each other physically.
W said for us to ever reconcile we would need to destroy the old M and rebuild a new one. Is that what we are doing or is she just stringing me along? I try not to ask myself these questions but to just live one day at a time. Carpe diem!
Hey, Gordie! Believe it or not, you sound like you're doing quite well.
What your W said about destroying the old marriage and rebuilding the new one...are you sure she's not DBing?
Your sleeping arrangements look like another version of "I need space" (meaning "I need to be alone to think without the distraction of you and your influence" or "who am I without you?"). While it gives you both some time to yourselves and undisturbed sleep, it also helps with the illusion of starting a new R...bringing the "newness" and excitement of dating and getting to know someone you don't know very well back onto the stage. I think this is a good thing. But here's my caution and questions.
Take this slowwww. Do not rush this part. If you think you're being patient and slow...slow down even further. Continue to GAL and not always be available, but be very kind about it. Let her know that you enjoy her company (you can actually say it), but continue to do you. As if you are making time for a new girlfriend, but you still need to live your life.
So my question to you is...who is the new Gordie that she is discovering while dating? Is this the new and improved version of the Gordie she originally fell in love with? Or is this Gordie the version that she had issue with, but now with DB skills? Or are you going to let her slowly get to know authentic Gordie who knows who he is and likes who he is, despite what she thinks about him? Because the reason it is said "DBing is for you" is to help you to become the best version of yourself, not the version that will win back W; because if that is not the real Gordie, it will be hard to continue the illusion without repercussions.
I'll give you a funny example from my own recent experience with XH. As his anger toward me has diminished with the space and D, I find during each encounter that he brings up things that he is now doing on his own that he complained about me doing while he was busy building resentment and blaming me for his unhappiness. I do know my controlling behavior through meltdowns and pouting was also a factor in the resentment, but not part of this example
. Anyway, he asked me to get a beer with him during a truck exchange last week and he wanted to order appetizers. I've always been a health-nut and a foody, and (much to my embarassment) was vocal about it. But I do like doughnuts, fried foods, comfort foods...etc. I was afraid of being judged so I ate them in secret, all the while judging others for their choices. Yeah, I'll take that well deserved "tsk-tsking". So one of my 180's is to do me and let others do them, as well. Authentically. So, XH remarked that the onion rings looked good, so I said yeah! Lets have them! He then started discussing how we should probably eat a healthier option and kept suggesting the hummus plate. He always made fun of it or complained in the past, though hummus with veggies was a go to lunch or snack for my family. He would fight the "healthful" food I grew or prepared. He ended up ordering the hummus plate "for us", so I added on the rings. Both were good. He used his card to pay but I gave him enough cash to pay both my half and the full tip, so no I didn't burden him with the add on. We ended up boxing up much of it (neither of us eat much). So, he got to see "authentic" me...who likes a good IPA and some onion rings. Is XH being authentic because he really does like hummus and doesn't always enjoy being the one who pays for everything? Quite possibly. But it could also be that he was just trying to eat something he didn't like because he was trying to be nice while eating with me. He's always been a "Mr. Nice Guy"...to everyone. But that can become a weight of resentment that can become an increasingly heavy burden as more people take advantage of it. So...by being authentically me, I take the burden of wondering what he thinks of me off of me. By accepting his ability to do what he wants, the burden of wondering what to do around me is off of him, whether he realizes it or not. The reason to take it slow is to let your "date" figure this part out. That neither of you need to impress the other; you are who you seem and they have the freedom to do the same.
Of course, I always go back to my mantra of "kindness, kindness, kindness". That keeps the "authenticity" from boiling over to narcissism or selfishness.
Keep living those days and moments one at a time, Gordie. Carpe diem, back atcha!
My h also showed massive confliction at the beginning. He told me he was confused and he was so out of it. One day he had feelings for me, the next he was back to confused. He told me the marriage was done, but got angry when I took my wedding rings off. And on and on it went.
I read somewhere to try hard to show kind gestures in the beginning as they can remember that later on. They get worse further in the tunnel. And they must get worse to get better. So don't fear it when you see her worsen.
At BD #2 (much worse than #1) he told me he never loved me and said it was all a huge mistake. Yeah, right. That sure is one lonnnng mistake: practically 20 years!
Recently, he remembers some positive memories with me. He'll say "remember when we went to x?" And I just say "yep, I remember that" and mosey along. I don't react much and I don't wax nostalgic. I find I just can't go there. He seems to try to bring up more memories and I do think he is looking for a reaction.
Just make sure you aren't propping her up through all this. Like Ciluzen touched on, you want to still become who you want to be despite all her shenanigans. You cannot nice her out of this.
So how does her room look? Does she have boy band posters on the wall?!?
Ciluzen always has such wonderful observations and personal experience. I am really rooting for them.
My H is exactly like HaWho's. I heard first the last few years were awful and pretty soon it was the whole marriage and he settled when he married me. You'd think that guy would be dying to finalize the divorce. Now all of a sudden he is remembering fun times from our early marriage and bringing up inside jokes. Now he's sending me nice texts. But is in the honeymoon stage with his OW2. Go figure.
Gordie you totally have to go slowly. She is just doing the pursuer/distancer dance with you. That thing is so trained in all of them.
How are your kids holding up?
Hey, Gordie! Believe it or not, you sound like you're doing quite well.
What your W said about destroying the old marriage and rebuilding the new one...are you sure she's not DBing?
Your sleeping arrangements look like another version of "I need space" (meaning "I need to be alone to think without the distraction of you and your influence" or "who am I without you?"). While it gives you both some time to yourselves and undisturbed sleep, it also helps with the illusion of starting a new R...bringing the "newness" and excitement of dating and getting to know someone you don't know very well back onto the stage. I think this is a good thing. But here's my caution and questions.
Take this slowwww. Do not rush this part. If you think you're being patient and slow...slow down even further. Continue to GAL and not always be available, but be very kind about it. Let her know that you enjoy her company (you can actually say it), but continue to do you. As if you are making time for a new girlfriend, but you still need to live your life.
So my question to you is...who is the new Gordie that she is discovering while dating? Is this the new and improved version of the Gordie she originally fell in love with? Or is this Gordie the version that she had issue with, but now with DB skills? Or are you going to let her slowly get to know authentic Gordie who knows who he is and likes who he is, despite what she thinks about him? Because the reason it is said "DBing is for you" is to help you to become the best version of yourself, not the version that will win back W; because if that is not the real Gordie, it will be hard to continue the illusion without repercussions.
I'll give you a funny example from my own recent experience with XH. As his anger toward me has diminished with the space and D, I find during each encounter that he brings up things that he is now doing on his own that he complained about me doing while he was busy building resentment and blaming me for his unhappiness. I do know my controlling behavior through meltdowns and pouting was also a factor in the resentment, but not part of this example
. Anyway, he asked me to get a beer with him during a truck exchange last week and he wanted to order appetizers. I've always been a health-nut and a foody, and (much to my embarassment) was vocal about it. But I do like doughnuts, fried foods, comfort foods...etc. I was afraid of being judged so I ate them in secret, all the while judging others for their choices. Yeah, I'll take that well deserved "tsk-tsking". So one of my 180's is to do me and let others do them, as well. Authentically. So, XH remarked that the onion rings looked good, so I said yeah! Lets have them! He then started discussing how we should probably eat a healthier option and kept suggesting the hummus plate. He always made fun of it or complained in the past, though hummus with veggies was a go to lunch or snack for my family. He would fight the "healthful" food I grew or prepared. He ended up ordering the hummus plate "for us", so I added on the rings. Both were good. He used his card to pay but I gave him enough cash to pay both my half and the full tip, so no I didn't burden him with the add on. We ended up boxing up much of it (neither of us eat much). So, he got to see "authentic" me...who likes a good IPA and some onion rings. Is XH being authentic because he really does like hummus and doesn't always enjoy being the one who pays for everything? Quite possibly. But it could also be that he was just trying to eat something he didn't like because he was trying to be nice while eating with me. He's always been a "Mr. Nice Guy"...to everyone. But that can become a weight of resentment that can become an increasingly heavy burden as more people take advantage of it. So...by being authentically me, I take the burden of wondering what he thinks of me off of me. By accepting his ability to do what he wants, the burden of wondering what to do around me is off of him, whether he realizes it or not. The reason to take it slow is to let your "date" figure this part out. That neither of you need to impress the other; you are who you seem and they have the freedom to do the same.
Of course, I always go back to my mantra of "kindness, kindness, kindness". That keeps the "authenticity" from boiling over to narcissism or selfishness.
Keep living those days and moments one at a time, Gordie. Carpe diem, back atcha!
Ciluzen,
Wow...your advice is golden and spot on:
1. I definitely find myself getting impatient certain days. And my d b coach says I may have to be patient enough to wait out a d. Patience!
2. Who is this person she is dating? Honestly, I felt like I could answer yes to all three of your questions: a new and improved me, the old me with d b skills, and the authentic me. It depends on the day. You've given me a lot to think about and obviously need to be more a or c, preferably c.
So on her part she is trying out c. She keeps pushing the envelope with me showing more and surprising sides of hereself, testing to see if I will react negatively as I have done in the past. My goal has been to be a really patient and active listener without any judgment. Is this an improved me? Yes.
Thank you! More to think and write about later.
My h also showed massive confliction at the beginning. He told me he was confused and he was so out of it. One day he had feelings for me, the next he was back to confused. He told me the marriage was done, but got angry when I took my wedding rings off. And on and on it went.
I read somewhere to try hard to show kind gestures in the beginning as they can remember that later on. They get worse further in the tunnel. And they must get worse to get better. So don't fear it when you see her worsen.
At BD #2 (much worse than #1) he told me he never loved me and said it was all a huge mistake. Yeah, right. That sure is one lonnnng mistake: practically 20 years!
Recently, he remembers some positive memories with me. He'll say "remember when we went to x?" And I just say "yep, I remember that" and mosey along. I don't react much and I don't wax nostalgic. I find I just can't go there. He seems to try to bring up more memories and I do think he is looking for a reaction.
Just make sure you aren't propping her up through all this. Like Ciluzen touched on, you want to still become who you want to be despite all her shenanigans. You cannot nice her out of this.
So how does her room look? Does she have boy band posters on the wall?!?
HaWho,
Thanks for checking in.
1. W is massively conflicted. It comes in waves of her trying to get closer and farther from me. It's exhausting at times, but I'm doing better.
2. W does not reflect on the past and our history. She is very focused on building the life she wants. She's not sure if that includes me.
3. Boy band posters? Ha. She sleeps on the couch and puts her stuff away every morning as if she didn't sleep there. Not a real dorm room re decorating.
4. What do you mean about notmpropping her up? In some ways I feel of course I am. I support her financially and emotionally still. At the beginning she sought all her support from outside the marriage, but has returned to relying on me. Is that bad?
5. Thank you for the reminder that I can't nice her back.
Ciluzen always has such wonderful observations and personal experience. I am really rooting for them.
My H is exactly like HaWho's. I heard first the last few years were awful and pretty soon it was the whole marriage and he settled when he married me. You'd think that guy would be dying to finalize the divorce. Now all of a sudden he is remembering fun times from our early marriage and bringing up inside jokes. Now he's sending me nice texts. But is in the honeymoon stage with his OW2. Go figure.
Gordie you totally have to go slowly. She is just doing the pursuer/distancer dance with you. That thing is so trained in all of them.
How are your kids holding up?
1. W does not say those things about our m. Instead, it is she feels trapped. She can't be who she wants to be.
2. She still frequently says she loves me. My problem is she told me at b d that she also loved her p o m--both at the same time. She even asked for an open m and I said I wouldn't do that. She no longer talks about him and I don't ask about him.
3. Thank you for the reminder to go slowly. Of course, I get impatient at times but realize I am not in control of the time frame. Worst marathon ever.
4. Kids are holding up well. Teenagers are getting in more fights with mom. Little kids ask about our sleeping arrangements and why mom doesn't go to church. I try to answer without saying anything negative. Is that the right approach?
Thank you for your help.
Gordie:
Definitely the right approach. That is still their mom and no matter what she does, they will still want to love her and be loved by her. They will put all of this together in their own minds later. When that happens, you want them to see you as someone who always made them feel loved, always made them feel secure, and never made them feel bad about loving their mother or having to make a choice.
I agree with Ownit. There are many reasons not to be critical of W in front of kids, including:
1. Being critical is a lousy character trait. Avoid being negative which most people dislike.
2. Critising W reinforces negative thoughts in your subconscious mind which will affect your behavior/actions.
3. Your kids are young and they take for facts the opinions of others. To them it is a fact. I see this a lot with my boys. Our neighbour once told me that in part of his garden he had "cow grass" meaning really thick growth. My sons overheard him and are convinced he has cow grass. A silly example but the same occurs when negative. My W is critical and negative about many things in the car. The boys blindly make the same comments.I am stamping this out but it goes to show the power kids put on words
4. It could be repeated back to W. As it is a truth that is not necessarily a bad thing but she is likely to take it negatively. You need to avoid adding negativity into the equation. Your W has not fully decided if she wants to stay. Avoid giving her reasons not to. Don't walk on eggshells bit no need to push her either.
Long story short I think you're right on this.
A word of caution. Your W is seeking something that may not be achievable for her as is. Until she can quieten her thoughts and decides she already has what she wants, she has equal chance of deciding to leave as she does to stay. Be ready to let her go if she decides that is her path. That will take enormous strength but I am confident you can do that. Maybe prepare your plan B for that eventuality. Have projects and goals lined up so if that happens you have something else to invest in. Make it something attractive to you.
Best wishes
Hi Gordie. What do I mean when I say don't prop her up? Just be careful that the things you are doing are true to you and that you are comfortable with your choices. Don't bend over backwards to save the marriage at your own expense.
The time you have been given is a great opportunity to restructure things. I suspect this is especially true if you've been Mr. Nice Guy to everyone but yourself.
Hope this clarifies. Be sure you are carving out a life for yourself in all this mess.
HaWho,
Thank you. I do feel I am bending over backwards. Is it at my expense? I don't know. Right now, w is mostly about her in her current state but I am important too. I can live like this for a period of time but don't want to be treated as unimportant for the rest of my life.
I don't have the nice guy issues in my m. Instead, I think I was too selfish so am now trying to be more of a mr nice guy.
***
Weekly update/observations:
1 W thanked me for all of my cooking. This is a big change as w used to do all the cooking and when I do cook, she is usually quite critical as she is much better than me.
2 W did some more little things for me, like make me coffee.
3 W started voluntarily hugging me. I probably got 3 or 4 hugs.
4 W was frustrated with me about a little thing. Instead of stuffing it, she expressed it. I apologized for making her feel that way. She said she forgave me and then let it go without lingering resentment and bad feelings. This is a change.
5 W unexpectedly dropped a "if we continue living together..." in the middle of a conversation. I didn't ask her what she meant as we were discussing something else, but I was surprised that she said that.
6 I have been really busy with work and kids and the rest of my life, trying to not let my situation define me and how I feel. It's still a roller coaster but I'm getting better at this one day at a time living. Deep breaths. Carpe Diem.
I agree with Ownit. There are many reasons not to be critical of W in front of kids, including:
1. Being critical is a lousy character trait. Avoid being negative which most people dislike.
2. Critising W reinforces negative thoughts in your subconscious mind which will affect your behavior/actions.
3. Your kids are young and they take for facts the opinions of others. To them it is a fact. I see this a lot with my boys. Our neighbour once told me that in part of his garden he had "cow grass" meaning really thick growth. My sons overheard him and are convinced he has cow grass. A silly example but the same occurs when negative. My W is critical and negative about many things in the car. The boys blindly make the same comments.I am stamping this out but it goes to show the power kids put on words
4. It could be repeated back to W. As it is a truth that is not necessarily a bad thing but she is likely to take it negatively. You need to avoid adding negativity into the equation. Your W has not fully decided if she wants to stay. Avoid giving her reasons not to. Don't walk on eggshells bit no need to push her either.
Long story short I think you're right on this.
A word of caution. Your W is seeking something that may not be achievable for her as is. Until she can quieten her thoughts and decides she already has what she wants, she has equal chance of deciding to leave as she does to stay. Be ready to let her go if she decides that is her path. That will take enormous strength but I am confident you can do that. Maybe prepare your plan B for that eventuality. Have projects and goals lined up so if that happens you have something else to invest in. Make it something attractive to you.
Best wishes
Own it and Roist,
Thank you for the advice. I never say bad things about w to the kids. I know that this must be hard on them too which is why they are asking me about w. A lot of questions get answered with an unsatisfing I don't know.
Roist,
Thank you for the word of caution. I am well aware that we may end up being separated and divorced. I have a L. I have a plan. I still hope it doesn't come to that.
Weekly update:
I was away for a few days for work. During the time apart we exchanged a few friendly texts and a few short conversations.
When I came back home, w was in a bad mood. At first I thought she was mad at me but I readjusted back to my more PMA that she probably isn't mad at me but about something else.
All afternoon and evening, we both did little things to try to reconnect with each other but she was just too stressed and exhausted to do much so I gave her space and reconnected with the kids, made the family dinner and put them to bed. After that, w was more relaxed and we were able to talk some more before she went to bed.
Feelings:
I am still hoping to bust my d but sometimes I wonder if my hope is a bad thing. SBJ was just writing about this on his thread with Roist and I think my hope is a good thing as long as it's not keeping me from detaching, GAL and letting go of the outcome.
Carpe diem!
Thanks for stopping by my thread and mentioning me in yours. I think as far as the "Hope" thing is concerned...we should focus it on us. We have the hope and faith that we will be ok thru all of this. At this point I am trying to focus on the journey I am on. There is a song by Sanctus Real called Lead me...the last line says "Father, lead me, 'cause I can't do this alone." Great song, and I am trying to rely on God's words and on His love for me to keep fighting the fight. If she comes around then she will have to make some effort to helping me save this thing. If she does not then my kids will see that I am not the one that gives up on those that I love and that love me.
I lost my last grandfather today and I wrote a letter to my W and her side of the family telling them of his passing. It's funny that we all, at times, argue with, fight with, and question mortality at times in our lives, but the one thing that should keep us grounded and certain is the love of family.
You are awesome and on a path of reconciliation whether you see it or not...keep your hope and faith alive.
Too early to consider this as reconciliation but it is possible.. ...
Roist I guess I meant reconciliation with himself and his re-examining who he is and what he wants. This has so many of us confused and twisted that we are unsure of anything anymore. I know I was kind of cocky and sure of myself before I started dating my W. I don't know at what point that changed, but after BD I was definitely not confident in my own shoes. I feel that guy coming back and I am so glad he is. I really like that guy. Haha.
You guys are awesome. Have a great weekend.
SBJand Roist,
Thank you for your kind words. Agree it's too early to call this a reconciliation. Agree that the only reconciliation thus far has been within myself.
***Refonciliation with self***
Post b d, I blamed myself for everything, including the EA. W did raise many valid points and it took me time to process them. The list was long but the big three were/are:
1. Not listening to w
2. Putting myself first
3. Boring and bad sex
Wow, that's an ugly list and a sure way to kill a m. I know that now. I own up to my failures and have taken concrete steps to fix the things in my control. I am a better person and h and father than I was a year ago. The self improvement project is far from done; it's a daily choice. And some days, I'm tired of trying so hard but I keep pressing on because I still love my w and want to bust this d and save my family and have a new and better m.
***Reconciliation with wife?***
Some have asked me why I haven't given up? For another man, maybe it would be the right thing to move on, but I haven't felt that is the right for me yet. Is reconciliation with wife possible at this stage? If I had to ignore words and just observe actions, here are the side of the debate:
No
1. She has filed for d.
2. She is living a much more independent life, separate from the family.
3. She no longer wants PDA, not even hand holding.
4. We are sleeping in separate rooms.
Yes
1. W is no longer spewing/angry at me; she has moved to a place where she can thank me, compliment me and do nice little things for me.
2. W goes through cycles of pursuing and distancing; when she pursues, she wants to spend time together, wants to do things together, wants to have sex, wears her ring.
3. W is no longer pushing me to move out.
4. W has not proposed a d agreement.
My d b coach says my w is not done with me yet. All observations and advice welcome! Thanks to everyone who has helped me on this journey.
Gordie, I wish I had some advice to give. My W is closer to done than yours. I also fight with giving in or giving up. It is a decision that only we can make when we are ready.
I lost a grandfather last week and something hit me that I needed to take the next step with our D. Not giving up, but playing the next piece so to speak. We will see what happens.
My prayers are with you daily...for you and all of us on here going through this BS. We, the LBS's, are definitely stronger each day that we endure this trial. I cannot say the same for our spouses. Be patient and pray. He knows that we are battling for our marriages and our families. At some point He will allow us the peace we deserve, not matter if our spouses come home or not.
You are doing the right thing Gordie. Keep pushing down the path you are on and see whether your W eventually chooses to join you on it. I think we all owe ourselves a constant re-evaluation of self as we progress through life. I know with my situation that's where I was lacking as well. We get into routines and the daily ins and outs and lose focus on who/how we are as people, friends, and spouses. The self evaluation, while tiring, is completely necessary for us to remain at our best.
I hope your W does come to her senses and sees what a great person she would be leaving. You are much stronger than when you got here and she'd be stupid for ignoring that. Keep fighting the good fight my friend!
Gordie it is impossible to maintain such a huge self improvement effort.IIMPOSSIBLE. It is similar to sporting preparation. In endurance disciplines such as running, cycling, triathlon etc the athlete prepares to improve their fitness by increasing the effort put in over say a three week period. This period is hard work but it is when the athlete eases off for a recovery week, that is when the athlete becomes stronger. I know the analogy is not perfect but I believe that it is healthy to have periods where you put in less effort to improve. Take the pressure off and just be.know that the break will actually help you more than tiredly plugging ahead.
I agree with your coach. Your W does not appear fully done in your M. Based on what you have written and my observations here I imagine that your W is relatively volatile and hence I would expect the limbo situation to be relatively short. Relatively short on a mlc timeline. Long on a lbs timeline! The longer the limbo in your case the better as when it is short more often than not it means she confirms wanting out.
Best to not dwell on either of these things and continue living as best you can one day at a time. Make the most of each day. Add done spice into your own life. Find something new or different to try. Do something you used to do. Get out of the house more. That will be more interesting for you and it makes you more interesting to others including W, but it also gives her space and relieves her pressure. That is important. And lastly you have a full life in place that will help you through the initial hard times should your W decide she is done. You know all this but sometimes we need to hear it again.
Best wishes
Cease striving and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the [b]nations, I will be exalted in the earth.” Psalm 46:10 (NASB)
Gordie, I had an invitation to a friends birthday get together this past weekend. Beer, BBQ, and Skeet Shooting...the first two were going to be right up my ally, but I suck at skeet shooting, so I was hesitant in going. Well, I had a close friend twist my arm into going with he and his wife. Long story short...I had the best time I've had in a year. It's amazing how shooting can relieve stress and refocus your mind on your own happiness.
Find something you haven't done, or that is totally out of your comfort zone and go do that with some friends. Take some time for yourself to let go of all of the worry and frustration that I know we all feel. It is a great feeling to not "worry" for a while.
You are doing great...you are becoming the man that she'd be crazy to leave. Continue to ask God to change you thru all of this and He will. Continue to ask for His Will to be done in your life and it will. God Bless!
Happy Father's Day Gordie xoxoxo
Roist,
I love that advice. Just like my training, I need built in rest days from D B ! Heck, I feel like I need a D B vacation. This is a marathon so max daily effort is as you say impossible. This is a good reminder as some days I do feel burnt out by the effort and get grumpy, not good!
SBJ,
Thank you for your advice too. I haven't done much new and exciting but have done a lot more socializing. W is always welcome and sometimes she joins and sometimes not. I am fine either way. And yes, I desperately need God's help. Honestly, I do feel at times that God is not listening but I hang on to that little mustard seed of faith within me to know that He is still there.
LT,
Thanks for the encouragement and always having my back. Yes, there have been good things from this unwanted road: self improvement and new friends.
Bttrfly,
Thank you and Happy F Day to Roist and SBJ and LT and all the moms there who are pulling double duty for your kids.
***
So this past week has been pretty good. W treated me more like a friend than a H or boyfriend this week. Work has been really busy. Lots of end of school kids events. My daily routine now includes doing little things I know my w appreciates. Not just household things for the family but little things just for her. Is this cake feeding? Maybe, but I just feel like it's the right thing to do.
Father's Day was surprisingly normal in the new normal sense. I spent most of my day with the kids and then we joined for dinner with some other families. Unlike prior times when w is more mysterious about her whereabouts and whether or not she is going to join the rest of us, w has been explicitly telling me when and where she will be joining us. W got me a small gift from her and the kids. The kids expressed to me what a good dad I am.
Some days and nights, I still get stressed and anxious and sleepless like last night. I wonder if this is just a wasted effort. I wonder when the divorce agreement will come. I drive by homes for sale and wonder if I should stop and look at them. And then I calm my mind and do my best to live in the moment, one day at a time. Carpe Diem!
Gordie,
I'm glad your day was calm and you are dealing well with the daily ride. What a grind this is for all us.
Here is my take on your gestes towards your W. I am.not against them.even though it is a form of pursuit. It all depends on your motivation for doing them and the related expectations.
Pre BD every lbs droped the ball, maybe not a conscious decision but it still occurred. Learning to be a better H is essential, otherwise all future R's are doomed too. So having such habits could be part of being a better Gordie.TThat is good.
If it is done to induce appreciation in w I would be careful.YYour W is on the fence and could go either way. Michelle encourages seeking tipping points that tip the R towards a better one. So in theory again this could be good. BUT if W is not receptive she could be pushed away by what she could consider as pressure or unwanted attention.
As for your question if it is worth it, I imagine your response is yes. Remember how things are now is not worth it but things won't stay that way forever. Your battle is not to keep the status quo but to have a chance at something healthier and better down the road.
You have been through the mill for a long time, but your M crisis is relatively young. After 9 months many lbs lose energy and motivation to continue.ThTheir energy levels are drained. To continue you need to look after yourself to be sure you have the energy to go on. I would be more worried for you if you didn't have such questions.
Best wishes
Roist,
Thanks for the encouragement. You are a mind reader! Yes, I'm fatigued and exhausted by this marathon Good to know that's normal. I read some of the newcomers posts today and was reminded where I was 9 months ago. Wow, I have made progress:
I no longer think my life is over not worth living.
I no longer blame myself for everything.
I no longer obsess about every little action or word of w, at least not as much.
I no longer fantasize about escaping.
I am no longer ashamed of my situation.
I am less anxious about spending time with w.
I now have a support network IRL.
I have a more developed life separate from w.
I am a more involved father.
I have no expectations of w.
To be continued...
ContInued...
I am a more attentive, less selfish lover.
I talk to God more, but confess our relationship is stressed too.
I am better at living in the moment, one day at a time.
I have no desire or temptation to snoop or confront the POM.
I am able to focus at work again.
I can sleep well on some nights but not every night.
I am closer to and more appreciative of my friends.
I am better at managing our domestic affairs with or without w.
I give w a lot more space and time to herself.
I am no longer critical and judgmental.
I am a better listener.
I am better at keeping my opinions to myself.
I am not trying to fix or save my w.
I know that I can only control me.
Impressive list Gordie! Inspiring me to make one as well
Bttrfly, thanks for the encouragement! I'm sure you have made more changes than you realize.
***
Weekly update: I decided to relax this week and take some of the pressure off myself in my d b efforts and being the super h and super dad. As Roist said, I needed some rest in my training or else risk burning out. A lot of the good changes I have made are now routine and no longer seem like work, including a lot of the housework and things I continue to do for W. W wanted me to take her out for an all day date on Saturday. We had a lot of fun and shared a meal together. I avoided any R talks and/or mind reading. W thanked me for such a fun time, told me she enjoyed spending the day with me, and we came home and engaged in some passionate love making.
If the changes we make continue to be work, then we haven't chang d IMO. Some changes take longer to achieve and become ingrained.I am glad that many of your changes have become habits.
How was W for the rest of the week,before and after Saturday? Extra good days like Saturday will really help tip your W's view of you and your M. Enjoy and make the most of each occasion. You are sharing better moments that most lbs's here. That is great. Beats only having negative interactions for sure. Avoid reading too much into it though as until your W is out of crisis she could decide anything.
My reminders are not to dampen your parade. One day at a time, as you put it
Roist,
Thanks for asking. So the big chage that happened after our all day date was that W moved back into the MBR. She said it was an experiment. She wants to see how it feels to her. I wasn't sure if it was a one night thing or not but we're almost at the end of the week and she is still there. She has been kinder and gentler and called me at least once a day while I am at work just to chat or give me a random update. That too is a change.
Is this just more distance and pursuit or a permanent turn for the better? Only time will tell but it sure does feel good. Trying to keep expectations low as she can change her mind and move back out. As a result, I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing. Let me know if you think I should be doing something different.
One day at a time. Carpe Diem!
Gord, I will continue to pray for your situation. We all know that none of what they do makes any sense, but we can survive. I'm not giving up, but will either sign the D papers today or tomorrow. I will have to continue the fight from the other side.
God bless you and keep your faith.
SBJ,
Thanks for the encouragement and good for you for not giving up...seems like the number who keep standing after d is quite small.
***
Weekly update:
W and I are still in the MBR together--almost two weeks now!
W has initiated spending more time together.
W held my hand in public which hasn't happened in months.
W initiated sex and she didn't distance herself the next day.
***
All good signs. Here's what I want: w to withdraw the d filing. Of course, I haven't told her that, so it's just out there. W has not mentioned d since March before she filed.
Any advice or just keep doing what I am doing?
keep doing what works. xoxoxo
keep expectations at zero.
Gordie,
You seem like you are in a good place. I wouldn't ask her to withdraw the divorce filing. Seems like that is a conclusion she needs to reach herself without feeling pressure. If nobody does anything on it should be dismissed (but talk to your lawyer) eventually. Keep up the great work!
Let sleeping dogs lie. In the meantime enjoy the positive changes. Appreciate them.
Keep your guard up. Don't dwell on a downturn bit be aware it could come. If you don't keep your expectations low, a change in W could hurt you more than initial BD. Keep doing what you are doing, knowing the road is still uncertain. The only certainty is this will take a long time.
Best wishes
Butterfly and Own it and Roist,
Thank you for the encouragement and reminder to keep my expectations at zero. My base case scenario needs to be this ends in divorce. As much as I don't want that to be, it's the highest probability outcome. And yes, the current positive vibe could cycle into another negative one at any moment. One day at a time.
Positive sign of note:
W has been touching me more outside of the bedroom.
So W decided she likes sex with me but not sleeping with me so she is out of the MBR again. Facts: I toss and turn and have frequent nightmares and my alarm goes off very early. The good news is I did not react emotionally to this. I was steady. I listened. I accepted. One day at a time.
It is great you can see that you reacted well. How did it affect you on the inside though?
Were those facts, the reasons she gave for the move. There probably is a little more to it, but not necessarily a big issue. She could have been uncomfortable due to being unsure and started feeling trapped. But you didn't pressure her back to the MBR nor try to keep her there. That should help ease her pressure build up. Monitor the other signs, but stay steady 4egardless. You are doing good.
You are right to validate. Being able to sleep well is important. Remember to wish her a good nights sleep regardless of where she sleeps.
Best wishes
Roist,
React on the inside? Yeah, it hurts but less than it did the first time as I knew her return may have been temporary and it was.
The facts? Those were for background info for you dear reader. Her stated reason is that she has not been sleeping well the last week so wanted to try sleeping separately again. That was it, no deeper R reason given nor did I ask for one.
Yes, I just listened and validated and then we ML. I didn't try to talk her out of it or pressure her in any way.
Good idea to wish her a good night's rest. I will do that tonight.
Gordie
Gordie, I don't know if I envy your situation or not. I give you props for being able to stay calm in the storm. I guess God knew that I'd go totally batchitcrazy if my W was doing the same to me. You are truly a strong man that is learning every day what it means to stand for your M.
Stand strong my friend!
SBJ,
Well, we don't get to choose our situations, do we? We are all doing our best to handle our situations which on the one hand are so unique yet so similar Thank you for your ongoing support and your prayers.
Journaling:
Trying hard not to mind read or pressure w in any way. On the one hand I'd love to ask...so any thoughts about that d filing? But I know that will not do any good, so I live one day at a time. When w wants to talk about it, she will.
I have surrounded myself with confidants with whom I can let off steam and even joke about the soap opera that is my life. Laughing about things beats crying about them.
Looking for the good signs: w has continued her initiation of time and talks with me (her love language) which has led to more non sexual and sexual physical interaction. Although we are not sleeping in the same bed, she likes for us to talk before bed after the kids are asleep and the house is quiet. It's the time of day when she can finally unwind from a stressful day. I realize this now, as pre b d, I would either want to go to sleep or have sex. For w, talking, sharing a drink, unwinding in the quiet of the night, talking until midnight...that's when she most opens up to me. That's her foreplay.
Better late than never or too little too late? God only knows.
Gordie you are doing such a fabulous job. I know it is hard to be patient given how far you've come, but you know you need to hold on longer. I think by moving out of the MBR again she is telling you that she needs to control the pace of this. By holding onto the D filing she keeps her safety valve. As long as nothing is actively being done to move it forward you should be ok.
Own it,
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I never considered those possibilities maybe because I'm a man or just another LBH.
I was a little more sensitive to my situation this weekend and frankly became impatient with the kids but then recognized it and righted my ways.
W wanted her space this weekend and so I was left to do all cooking and cleaning and childcare. I shouldn't have been upset, but I felt like a single dad and that is not what I want. I did my best to turn lemons into lemonade by teaching the kids how to cook some things and they thought it was a ton of fun.
In addition, some unexpected expenses came up which is killing my already strained budget.
Patience, patience. One day at a time.
Any suggestions for how to recognize (or not) birthdays and anniversaries when you are somewhere between marriage and divorce? I'm struggling with this issue. Too much feels like pursuit. Too little seems mean.
That's a hard one brother. I bought mine an anniversary gift one month post BD that was laughed at and unappreciated. I then have allowed the kids to do birthday and Mother's Day gifts from them.
I think your situation is different than many. I would give her a card but no gift. I wouldn't make the card mushy at all.
Gord, just checking in. I haven't heard from you in a while. I hope and pray things are going well in your world.
SBJ,
Thanks for checking in.
Update: Summer is a very social time for us with a lot of family time and events. As w did the b d and the d filing, I didn't plan any of the regular things I do. As each event approaches, I have let w take the lead on whether she wants to participate or celebrate and every time, she does. Weddings, vacations, parties sometimes as a family and other times as a couple. I don't plan because I don't want to pressure her into having to play w or mother or family. On a different note, W and I are still sleeping separately but still enjoying marital relations. Other non sexual touch has been more consistent, less hot and cold. No news on the legal front.
Question: Is w reconsidering d or just enjoying the cake? I don't know. As bttrfly and ownit have said, w is going to control the pace and it won't be linear. As Roist has said, I've got to be patient, patient, patient. One day at a time!
When you figure out the patience thing can you send some my way? I'm freaking out at present.
So it's 10.5 months after b d. Back in September w was in a hurry to separate and d. After making all the common mistakes for a couple months I started to turn things around for me which improved the situation. W started noticing my self improvement but gave me the too little too late but I persisted. I finally learned about boundaries. I was afraid that standing up for myself would push her away but in hindsight I can see that it made things better. I was not going to move out. I was not going to tolerate her speaking to me about POM. I wanted to be her husband, not her friend. Things improved between us but she still filed in March but hasn't spoken of D since. I am putting no pressure on w. We are enjoying one another's company. Sex is fun. I could stay like this for some time but am afraid her filing complicates things as things as the court will force her to propose a settlement or drop the case some time in the next month. I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing and taking one day at a time. What else can I do?
I'd say you're pretty much perfect. The only other thing you can do is keep your expectations set firmly on zero.
That's pretty much it kiddo, and keep your GAL activities so she can see your changes.
xoxoxoxo
Great job btw!
A lot can happen in a month. Don't stress that yet.
You are right about boundaries being beneficial and necessaryiin a r even a struggling one. I still think you will need to be ready to let her know that if she does go ahead, that it will change things as per my earlier advice. No need to preempt that but be ready.
Best wishes
Just keep on keepin' on buddy!!! You are truly stronger than you know.
Your mindset is right, but I know how our "hope" can sometimes cloud our reality.
I have faith that God wants marriages to stay together and has the power to heal and restore them, but I also realize that not everyone feels that way and we cannot make them "feel" a certain way.
And He said to them, “Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you. Matthew 17:20
Bitterly, Roist, SBJ,
Thanks for looking out for me.
Keep expectations at zero. Great advice. Easier said than done. My heart wants so much to think that maybe she'll drop the d but yes, have to keep expectations at zero.
Telling w that post d life will be different. Yes, it sure will but not as you pointed out not to be said pre emptively. In fact actions I think will speak louder than words on this front. Even if I say it again, I don't think she'll believe it until it happens. We are so still intertwined in our daily lives.
Stronger than I think? There are days I feel strong yet others where I feel so weak and that I want to just stop running this marathon.
***
So one of those places I have felt weak is church. Kids' behavior has definitely worsened since w stopped going. At times I feel like giving up and just leaving them at home but I haven't. Today I prayed for a good experience and I asked the kids to be better behaved and they were! I was so happy.
And one change I have noticed in W. She has resumed saying thank you. When I do something for her she will look me in the eye and very deliberately say it.
My mind has been filled with thoughts of post d life but not the sad and lonely kind. I have been thinking of what my place would look like and being in more control of my life. Is that bad?
My mind has been filled with thoughts of post d life but not the sad and lonely kind. I have been thinking of what my place would look like and being in more control of my life. Is that bad?
no. it's not bad. it's pragmatic.
xxoxooxxooxo
No it is not bad. You need to be able to embrace a future life without w. You need to see and feel its full potential. You should be aware that life without W can be great too.
This takes a lot of stress off the lbs. He/she knows they will survive and thrive regardless. This affects attitude and behavior which is perceptible to WAS. They feel less pressure. They see you are truly OK letting them go. The seed gets planted that the lbs is moving on in their life regardless.
For these and other reasons it is OK gordie to have such thoughts.
Best wishes
Butterfly and Roist--thanks for the reassurances. This has not been a great week for me. I have not been as steady as I'd like to be. I've been more on edge. And one of my kids asked me point blank about w and I was like a deer in the headlights. I have avoided saying anything negative about my w to the kids. But I didn't know how to answer so I just said nothing. Not a highlight of my week. I could use a drink.
{{{{{{Gordie, hugs}}}}}}
Do you know why this week in particular has been so difficult? Can you maybe carve out a few hours to go do something (or nothing) away from w and kids just to get some breathing room to re-balance and ground?
xoxoxo
BTW saying nothing is better than saying the wrong thing.
Bttrfly,
Thanks for checking in. Actually acknowledging that I've been off my game was a huge relief. I also realized that I had lost my temper the other day with one of the kids and I went and apologized and explained I was having a rough week and that my actions were my responsibility. This is a 180 for me! Owning up to my actuons and apologizing then made me feel so much better the rest of the evening.
What has put me on edge is the calendar and knowing w will have to make some sort of d decision this month. I try not to think about it, but then those thoughts come marching right back in. You know how that works?
Gord I am right there with you as far as being on edge this week. Maybe it is something in the air. Maybe it is our minds way of saying that we need to take care of ourselves a little bit better. Maybe it is a defense mechanism keeping us from hurting.
The marathon thing is true, but like you hoped that I would have been thru with the 26.2 miles by now. At least I was hoping that God would have come to the rescue by now. I know that this is definitely teaching me how to be a lot more patient. That is something that I had struggled with all of my life. That is also what I have had a problem with this week with my kids. When I ask them to get something done they reply ok, but 2 minutes later when they haven't moved, I have been going off the handle. I have had to step back and ask for forgiveness as well this week...from them and from God.
The prayer of serenity has been my friend this week for sure.
Peace be with you my brother...
I try not to think about it, but then those thoughts come marching right back in. You know how that works?
I waited for exh to schedule our day in court. As the date approached, I started eating ice cream. By the pint. From the container. Or I'd make a caramel sundae. For dinner. Then for breakfast. Some days both.
In our state there's a 120 day waiting period, so he could have stopped it at any time. He didn't. My ice cream phase continued.
35 pounds later, I'm divorced. Luckily not diabetic. Now I have to lose the weight and that's fine - I had to get through as best I could.
So yeah, I know what you mean. Take my advice: don't go the ice cream route. Just keep doing what's been working and focus as solely on you as you can. All you have to do right now Gordie is breathe. That's it. Just keep breathing. Break it down to getting through the day, the morning, afternoon or evening, the hour, the minute or the second. However granular you need to make it.
We're here when you can't stand it any more and need to scream, shout, post, whatever.
Be kind to yourself.
xoxoxoxoxo
{{{{{{{Gordie}}}}}}}}
Gordie, she may just be one of those that has to do it to realize that she doesn't feel any better (Ciluzen's H comes to mind). Try not to let it get it to you and try not to live like a dying man awaiting his execution as he counts down the clock. Just say to yourself she's probably going to do it but it doesn't have to change my world view and I will be ok.
SBJ--that's exactly my issue with the kids but have been better since posting about it, a lot better so having support to acknowledge and change really helps!
Butterfly--that ice cream thing? Yeah, I've done it. It's not a regular practice now but after b d oh yeah. Trying hard to breathe and take one day at a time and not get dragged down by this whole thing.
Own--that's exactly what I feel like...like my life is on hold waiting for some terrible thing to happen. I've gotta snap out of that. Life goes on no matter my marital stays, right?
So this week was pretty normal. W was really sad one day. I asked her about it and she didn't want to talk so then just gave her time and space to herself. Work has been really busy. I've been good about my diet and exercise. Not sure what it is but I have been attracting a lot more compliments from random women. I was out shopping with my daughter and she picked up on this and we laughed about it. Given summer schedules, I've been able to spend a lot more time with the kids and that has been fun. No news on the d front.
Txhubby has an awesome thread about his situation. Reminders to self:
Need to detach more. Still too focused on w and her actions and how she responds to me than I should be.
Recognize the difference between needing a and wanting w. Two very different things.
Need to step up the GAL efforts. I have taken steps but need to take it up a notch or five.
Lastly, Limbo can literally kill you. Don't waste your life waiting and waiting on your w to act or change. Take charge of your own life irrespective of what and when she chooses to act.
***
Separate thought. It seems most situations involve PA and others EA. There are only a few on here that involve IA. W became infatuated with a real person but it never crossed into a mutual EA or PA. My D B coach felt that I should (1) ignore the IA and (2) build greater connection to W. I have done both but here I stand on the doorstep of D. DB coach also warned some actually have to go through with D before even considering reconciliation.
Well, I am pretty sure she has a fantasy of how divorced life will look. And if in the near future she raises the issue, personally? I would ask her how she thinks it will all look. I would listen and stay quiet. It would be interesting to know how lost she is.
In my depression I fantasized about getting my own apartment to get away! I did not want to have a PA. I just wanted to have my own space. And it was COMPLETELY irrational. I thought it would be perfect. I never really thought out the logistics like um, what would my kids think? Depression warps perception.
So, you have to figure out the boundaries of what divorced life would look like to be very clear to her about what will happen. And this is not to be punitive, but just because divorce does change things! And she may not *really* comprehend that over on fantasy island.
I understand how hard it is to just be waiting for someone to carry out a threat. For a full year I kept waiting for my h to move out. Remember, he wanted to sleep around but come home to spend the night here! Each day he came home I felt relief and dread. Relief that he hadn't cleared out the bank accounts and run off. But I had dread that I would be wondering if tomorrow was the day he would go MIA.
Somehow we have to minimize thinking about that uncontrollable stuff and maximize thinking about other, productive stuff. Our energy can make the good stuff flourish.
But in the meantime, make a clear list of how d will change life. And be ready to make that very clear to her.
I have not read TXhubby's thread in a long time but you are right that it is worth reading. I don't think it's the right move for you at this stage. Give her a little more time. But take heart from what TX writes and take note.
Hawho echoes my previous advice to you about being clear about how things will be if she pursues the D. Try not to be angry but factual if you have to make that speach. You have guidance here that is invaluable and will be readily available if things get rocky.
I would clarify that you were on the brink of D before you followed your coach's advice. You have drastically improved things and IMO would probably already be separated if you hadn't. You have gained time to allow a turnaround. It's like turning the titanic. You have done the necessary and time will tell if ye hit the iceberg or not. You can influence that but not.control it.
If W files, reread TX's thread.
How are you set for your family holiday?
Best wishes
Roust,
W filed in March and didn't tell me (my L told me). But she hasn't followed through with the next legal steps so she has to drop the filing this month or agree to a court ordered action plan. Vacation with w and kids coming up. The differences with txhubby' situation was full on PA and there were no small, dependent children in the picture (think his kids were older and out of the house or no kids at all) so he could actually live with w and have minimal to no interaction.
HaWho,
Wow, that's really insightful. Yes, she hasn't spoken of it in months but when she did? Wow, fantasy island indeed. Kids would be happy. Enough money for two houses equal to what we have now (in reality, we'll have to sell the house). I would stay besties with w and become besties with POM! And we'd be one giant extended family--w and I and our new partners and having meals and holidays and vacations together. As you suggested, I just listened. I was frankly so flabbergasted and shell shocked I didn't know what to say. If she brought it up again...it really is hard to listen to this stuff but I'd probably just sit there and listen and squirm and repeat: I want to be your H, not your friend.
If it comes up or she raises it, I suggest you do not tell her what you want; i.e. that you want a w not a buddy. She doesn't care and her perception is skewed. Think of it from her perspective as that is all that matters to her. Politely but seriously say: "with divorce your whole quality of life changes." I would leave it at that. If she asks what you mean say: "your lifestyle will plummet, starting with the sale of the house. You'll see your kids every other weekend and we'll alternate holidays."
I think the trick is to say it quietly and calmly but look her in the eye.
In the meantime make this vacation the funnest ever! Fake it, act "as if" and show her exactly what she'll be missing.
We'll be polishing the Oscar for you . . .
I would clarify that you were on the brink of D before you followed your coach's advice. You have drastically improved things and IMO would probably already be separated if you hadn't. You have gained time to allow a turnaround. It's like turning the titanic. You have done the necessary and time will tell if ye hit the iceberg or not. You can influence that but not.control it.
Best wishes
Hello Gordie,
When was the last time you spoke with your DB Coach? I would suggest scheduling a session in order to regroup.
Please call me at 303-444-7004 and we can look at the schedule.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Vacation was relatively normal and good times with the kids. W actually wanted to spend some alone time with me. She opened up to me about some of her issues (nothing about us or divorce). I just listened and gave my opinions when solicited. I didnt break her. I can't fix her. I hope she can realize that I am not the source of her problems and pain and that D will not make things better but she has to come to that conclusion herself. It's her decision and I am not fighting it and will accept it. I don't need her but I want her. I still love her.
I'm glad things went well. You have been in my thoughts and prayers.
Well, this week was a letdown after vacation. There were moments when things seemed almost normal, intimate. And now? Back to distancing. I have cooties again. Keep your distance. W is still being friendly, but I am definitely in the friend zone. One surprising positive is one of my kids was acting defiantly against me and W actually defended me.
My L has heard nothing from W's L and first court appearance is scheduled for next week. W hasn't mentioned D in months. Trying my best not to let the stress get to me, but it's hard. I have been tempted to ask W what the heck is going on, but I have resisted.
I confess that I have been filled with thoughts of just giving up and walking away from this situation. I want to be with someone who wants me and right now, w doesn't want me or at best is undecided if she wants me. I feel rejected, abandoned, heartbroken and full of self doubt and self loathing.
Hi Gordie,
I know. I understand. It's a rollercoaster ride and exhausting. Your life seems to be in someone else's control rather than your own and that's distressing and stressful - especially when that someone isn't too stable.
There's nothing wrong with feeling like giving up, or wanting someone who wants you too.
There's nothing wrong with being sick of the ambivalence.
Remember, you can only really be abandoned if you abandon yourself.
There are some things you do still have control over.
Take a deep breath, then take a few more. Can you carve out some alone time? Use this time to dig deeper to figure out what you really want. What you envision your ideal situation to be.
Keep giving this situation over to God. Keep praying. Go for a walk. Do something physical, yard work, exercise.
Keep coming here to vent.
Good job on resisting asking W about the D.
Don't wake a sleeping baby. Don't ask a MLCr what the status is of your relationship.
{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}
Gordie, hang in there. You have been so strong and so solid throughout this. Don't give up now.
Butterfly's advice is excellent.
Gordie, I'm sorry you are struggling but it is understandable. Try to let go of the divorce and focus instead on what you can control. I know how hard the waiting is when time is ticking down. I'm dying to get out of here and every day is dragging by like 10. You can do this. You are strong.
Butterfly, Rose, Own it,
Thank you so much for standing by and encouraging me. Sometimes I need to admit my weakness. It's tiring trying to be strong all the time. Well, pity party over. TGIF. It's gonna be a great weekend, right? I can only control me. W will do what she's gonna do.
Pity parties are allowed, Gordie - if you were nearer, you could join mine. I have wine?
Let's both have a good weekend and remember that we had a happy us before we met our spouses, so we can do happy again x
Treasur,
Thank you! I hope you enjoyed your wine this weekend! I enjoyed mine. You are right. I can be happy with or without my w. It hurts even to write that. My divorced friends tell me that too. Why do I have a hard time believing that in my heart?
***
This weekend was a mix of cold and warm. We can have pleasant conversations together sometimes. W surprised me when she told me she wanted us to go to a friend's birthday party together. Other than that, we didn't spend too much time together. No discussion of divorce and the legal proceedings.
I feel I am in the friend zone and happily co parenting. No desire to spend time alone with me. No desire to touch me. This used to upset me more than it does now, but it honestly still does make my heart ache. Acceptance. Detachment. Be steady. Give w time and space.
At some point there will be a discussion that she will have to initiate: Here is the proposed d settlement and timeline or I am dropping the d filing. I have applied no pressure. I have not initiated R discussions.
Where do I need to do better? Stopping the pursuit and distance. Detaching. I've made improvements. I am still not where I want to be, but still working on it. I want my w but I don't need my w.
What do I want the kids to remember about me during this time? I loved them. I loved their mom. I was strong. I was patient. I maintained my dignity. I maintained my faith. I was a good man. I didn't buckle under pressure, didn't fall into depression, didn't seek revenge.
Unrelated thoughts:
1. Anniversary came and went. I didn't plan anything. W woke up and wanted to spend time together. We went on a casual lunch date, nothing fancy. I bought her a little present. We were physically affectionate.
2. W is working on her childhood trauma issue. Recently she has opened up and told me more about it. I have been listening, not offering advice or trying to fix things, just listen.
3. Trying to break the distance and pursuit dynamic (slow learner). When w distances I'm no longer pursuing (or maybe just less so). No calls or texts or attempts at physical contact. It feels like we are drifting apart.
4. W has been more agitated. I no longer ask her what is bothering her or did I do something wrong. If she wants to tell me she will and I have found it is rarely anything to do with me these days.
5. I am enjoying these last days of summer. I spend more time with the kids without my w these days but still do family things too. My friends tell me that I seem to be in a much better state of mind.
What do I want the kids to remember about me during this time? I loved them. I loved their mom. I was strong. I was patient. I maintained my dignity. I maintained my faith. I was a good man. I didn't buckle under pressure, didn't fall into depression, didn't seek revenge.
And you are. And that makes you magnificent
Love that you called that out Treasur.
Gordie you seem a little more at peace with it.
I sat in my IC today asking over and over when am I going to be free. Everything in my life overwhelming me at present seems to have some origin in him. That I think that and wrote it shows that it is in me. I must take control of my thoughts, actions, and feelings. I hope that you will do the same.
Good point, OwnIt. Understandable after a long M.
I sometimes reflect that my H's behaviour has brought such crazy darkness into my life in the last two years and I hate the chaos of it. So, freedom from it is a benefit of his absence.
Treasur and ownit,
Thank you so much for the encouragement. I too have felt that crazy darkness. As you guys said, I think it does relate to the longevity of these relationships.
***
This week:
W did not do the work, so the court date has been postponed. W has not discussed D with me since April during our last R talk. W is distancing emotionally. W has been avoiding physical contact with me. I feel my expectations and hopes for reconciliation are getting lower and lower, but still not at zero. I am pursuing w less and less but we still talk and text daily and go on dates weekly. The lack of physical contact makes me feel less like the BF and more like the F. W has been in more conflict with the kids so they have drawn closer to me. Work has been busy. Friends have been very supportive. Diet has been less good. Sleep has been less good. Gym has been consistent. More engaged in my creative endeavors.
Gordie - what would happen if you dramatically pulled back on the daily tel/text contact other than emergency/practical kid stuff and didn't see each other at all for a few weeks? (Because you're too darn busy mysteriously GAL-ing...) How would it help you? Just ask because it seems that what you're doing now isn't helping, so DB principles would suggest trying a 180.
Have faith my friend...and stay strong my brother! Remember that depression is one of the main factors in MLC. Not only is she wrapped up in that...so are we to an extent. You are doing the work and need to remain strong in your faith. Pray that she is able to do the work she needs to do as well.
You are in my thoughts and prayers!
Treasur,
Thanks for your thoughts and would love your input. The sad truth is before b d there were days when w and I wouldn't talk to each other much except about logistics and kids. This was one of her main complaints about me and why POM was so attractive. He paid attention to her and listened to her and cared more about her endeavors than me. My 180 was to improve my listening, making time to connect every day and talk about W and not logistics and kids. W was skeptical of these changes early and I got the too little too late and we need to D asap. I took the advice of folks here to be the man I want to be and that man is one who listens and gives attention to w and helps more with the house and kids. I give her a tone of space and don't force unwanted conversations but I do initiate and start with normal open ended questions. How was your day? How is such and such that you mentioned yesterday going? If she's not open it lasts a few minutes but it shows I care and am interested. If she's open we may wind up talking for an hour or more. This has become the new normal and she no longer says too little, too late. As Ciluzen advised, I'm trying to demonstrate this is the new, authentic Gordie not just the bad old Gordie with d b tricks trying to win her back. However, as you noticed, the new normal has reached somewhat of a plateau where things are neither getting better or worse. I'm afraid if I pull back and go dark I am reverting back to the bad old Gordie that she wants to D. What do you think?
SBJ,
Thank you for your prayers. I need them. I had been slacking off in my own prayers but last week was better. I honestly don't feel too close to God right now but remind myself that faith like love is not a feeling. It is believing in and seeing what cannot be seen nor sometimes felt. I can see how these experiences can make some lose faith and honestly at times wonder if I will be one of them.
I don't know, Gordie - I can see the sense of listening more - but also that you feel friend-zoned and like things have plateaued...and you say sometimes you talk for an hour but also that she is distancing emotionally...hmmm, not sure. Is OM still in play? If so, of course, that will affect things.
What do you do on your dates? What do you think would surprise her, something you're sure she'd love but would think you wouldn't know about her? If OM is out of play, are you wooing her, Gordie? Does she think of the 'dates' as dates?
What do other chaps think Gordie could do to build on things?
Treasur: I can see the sense of listening more - but also that you feel friend-zoned and like things have plateaued...and you say sometimes you talk for an hour but also that she is distancing emotionally...hmmm, not sure. Is OM still in play? If so, of course, that will affect things.
Gordie: POM is a good question. I don't snoop and I try not to speculate so I'll just stick to the facts. They used to spend a lot of time at work together. W said at b d she had never told him what she felt but that she was going to do so. I didn't handle her confiding in me about her POM well so she stopped talking to me about him. POM is still with his GF. POM still works with W but much less than they used to. I say friend zoned because she still talks to me and often opens up to me but the physical affection and that romantic intangible has dried up. I feel she wants platonic love and friendship from me right now and maybe that's all she can handle. This is tricky too because on the one hand I don't want to do anything close to pressuring her for physical affection on the other hand she craves the sexual attention of men but maybe not from me right now. If this sounds confusing, it is to me too.
Treasur: What do you do on your dates? What do you think would surprise her, something you're sure she'd love but would think you wouldn't know about her? If OM is out of play, are you wooing her, Gordie? Does she think of the 'dates' as dates?
Gordie: Those are great questions. Dates usually involve a meal and sometimes just a meal. Sometimes they involve a meal and spending more time together sometimes just walking around or sometimes doing an activity. I do on occasion try to surprise her with something that I know she will like but I don't want to pursue overly aggressively and money is tight, so these tend to be smaller in nature--a little present, her favorite flowers, etc. she always shows appreciation when I do these things. I struggle over giving space, being thoughtful and showing attention, trying to build connection, but not aggressively pursuing and acting needy. I have no idea if she considers these dates or not.
Gordie I had typed a response on my cell but lost it somehow before it posted, so here's another attempt:
I can't help wondering if w let the D issue slide because she's not sure yet, and is that also why she seems distant. Perhaps it's not distance so much as preoccupation with wondering what she really wants to do, partly due to your turning things around with your new authentic attentive self.
I agree it's a potential mistake to do anything that resembles the old you, as that will give ammunition to the whole idea of D being a solution.
So, keep DBing, keep being the new authentic you, keep digging deeper for patience, try to keep all expectations at zero and pray. xoxoxoxo the outcome is always in God's hands anyway.
much love xoxoxoxo and hugs
Patience dear Gordie. Just patience.
Butterfly--I really hope that is the case but absent mind reading, I have no idea. I have also rededicated to praying about this thing and lifting it up to God.
Ownit--thanks for the reminder: patience!
***
Pending divorce and financial stress are really getting to me this week. I feel that lump in my throats that won't go away. W is friendly but keeps her physical distance. It's driving me crazy.
***
Re reading all the pursuit and distance threads. I think I am a natural distancer emotionally and pursuer sexually and w is of course my opposite. At b d she basically said I am tired of pursuing you emotionally and you pursui me sexually. So post b d, I have been the one trying to build emotional connection as she distances and let her take the lead on physical contact which I crave. Has this worked? Well, I have learned a lot about myself and it has slowed the divorce proceedings down. I do crave emotional connection to w. Why was I distancing when she was pursuing?
Because its scary to put yourself out there and risk rejection. Intimacy is difficult for lots of us, even those who crave it. Having only ever been with an emotionally unavailable man I'm terrified that some day I will meet a man who is emotionally available and feel smothered by him.
I think if you focus on being "emotional" with her as something you need to work on for yourself, you may find some solace in protecting yourself if she rejects you. A lesson is still a lesson if you get the answer wrong. Sometimes we learn more from the wrong turns than we do from the right.
Let go of the divorce. Stop thinking of it as the end of the line. Have I slowed my own divorce from DBing for the last 10 months or is my H just really averse to making any kind of definitive step. I think its the latter. Maybe yours is the same way. Focus on today and what you can do to make it great.
Ownit,
Yes. There's definitely some of that. Funny thing is I did think I was emotionally available but guess only w can be the judge of that.
Mirror says I was a sensitive kid who got the stuffing kicked out of him which made me very wary to be open...until w. She made me feel safe and loved and accepted and understood. And now w makes me feel rejected and abandoned, yet I am still so attached.
And yes, maybe she didn't slow down because she was uncertain. Maybe she's just being lazy or it's inconvenient. Gotta keep expectations at zero, lovingly detaching and faking it until I make it.
Do d b for me as saving m seems less and less realistic. Things seemed to be improving and now not so much. The anger from b d is gone but that anger was mixed with I wish you were a better man! Now I am a better man and for a while she acted intrigued and attracted. These past couple weeks I have remained steady but w no longer acts intrigued or attracted. I can only control my actions. I can't control how she feels about me.
Patience. One day at a time.
{{{hugs}}} Gordie, cuz you need them.
You can only keep on with the changes so that they become ingrained ... you're right to focus on what you can control and to keep turning it over.
xoxoxo
hang in there; you're doing better than you think (or feel)
It is harder to stick at this when things appear not to be going your way. That is when we need to dig deeper and stick to our path. There may be times that you convince yourself that all is lost. That may feel true but that does not mean it is.
This process is not linear. There are ups and downs, twists and some backsliding along the way. Expect this. Don't give it to dispair as they occur but learn to watch these times as phases along the way that you must go through almost as an independent observer.
It is difficult to watch your W distancing but you must do just that. Let her go. Trying to fight it only pushes them away faster. Let it happen if that is the path she chooses.
You are stronger than I was at the one year mark. You are doing great. Don't judge your efforts solely on her commitment to you. Unfortunately they are independent at least at this stage, but it is later on that the work you put in now will stand to you.
I commend your ability to not snoop. I admit in my first year I could only stand if I knew nothing unacceptable was happening. Snooping gave me that assurance but also gave me my hardest knocks. A high price I almost couldn't pay.
Best wishes