Hello all,
First time posting a new thread so bare with me..I'm a talker. Plus, this all started 15 months ago, so I have a LOT to share.
I'm married with my husband of 17 years as of the this Friday, 4/22. He left January 23, 2016 (my birthday...Thanks dude!) He told me the day before that he was going to leave but we've had many fights in the past when the same thing was said. It just never happened. He took me out to dinner with some of my family on my b'day and I thought things had smoothed over. On the way home, I asked him what time he was leaving for work and when he'd be home, and he said "I'm leaving and I'm not coming back ." I got angry and told him to go the he!! ON. He actually packed that night and left. Admittingly, I gave him every reason to leave. But, he also gave me every reason to behave badly enough to where he would want to leave. I know that I'm in control of my own actions. Y'all taught me well. BUT, I spent years of being neglected and verbally bashed, but I still held on in the hopes that things would change.
I knew I was married to a man with no work ethic, an addictiction problem and quick temper. I also have the same traits. We are SO much alike that I'm surprised that we lasted this long! BUT, the ONE thing that we BOTH understood about our relationship/marriage was that it was never going to be a situation where either of us was involved with someone else. I asked him if there was someone else he was seeing and he said "Do you really think there has to be another woman for me to leave?" In other words, he didn't answer the question. I knew there was but I didn't know who it was. I begged and pleaded for a month for him to come home and he was just begging me to leave him alone. We talked every day for 17 years, so why was I not going to do it when he left?? I know now that was all wrong. I also spewed hate for those first 3 months, until I got on here. Thank the Lord for you folks! I knew something was wrong when H didn't want hardly anything to do with his dogs. We have no children and he loves his dogs more than anything. He wasn't even asking about the dogs. Y'all know the drill so I'll not elaborate on that anymore.
After I got on here, I started to take advice from others and started being more understanding and did NOT go searching for the other woman. I would start to search and stop myself. Probably because I didn't want to know; for a while. I think I started looking intensely when I started to read about going Dark. Besides, I was never going to believe my H would do such a thing, right? Part of me wishes I could smack whomever it was who said not to look for the OP bc I think if I had gotten a handle on it sooner, the GAL process would have started sooner. Still, I don't blame anyone who was trying to save me from myself. All the hard work that I had put into being the "better person" went all to he!! In a hand basket. I had already put up with SO much from this man over the years and this past 15 months have been like a living nightmare over and over.
I was really GAL for the months that I didn't know about OW but I was still waiting anxiously on him to come around and out of the tunnel. I found out this past December, so it's all kinda sank in and the hurt is a lot less than when I found out the truth. I found out by checking his phone bill, of course. I called her and asked how she knew my H and she said that she used to work with him. She's 28 years old. He's 46 and so am I. I found out that she quit her job and has started working with a competitor. He's now unhappy where he's working so he'll probably go to work for the same company. Shocker..NOT. Anyway, I asked her if she was romantically involved with H and she said "I think you should talk to H about this." Duh. I didn't confront her except to say that I did ask him and he denies it. I was extremely nice to her because I STILL did not want to believe what was happening. I was just chatting it up with her as if she was a new buddy of mine! She was telling me about her dog and how she lived so close to where they worked...blah..blah..blah. It ended pretty decent and I thanked her for time and wished her well. It wasn't until later that I put 2 and 2 together. She obviously had no idea that my H had told me he was staying with a guy from work who lived approximately 2 mins from his office and what kind of dog he had. Same distance...same kind of dog. Ding ding ding...She's the one!! I went on a rampage like few have seen via text. It's been downhill ever since then.
He did finally move home with his mom after I talked with her. She apparently didn't know all that had been discussed between me and my H. I had been going to all his family affairs and texting with him daily. That's what makes me sick...I was so fooled for so long by someone I thought would NEVER do that to me. We had our problems but this was never going to be one of them. I did try to forgive him somewhat but then I would just spew hate when he didn't respond right away to my texts or didn't react the way I thought he should. I don't know how to be any other way, but, the way I am. I've been surviving this life more than living it, so going into survival mode is pretty much the only way I know to deal with trauma. I suck at DB'ing. Period.
Anyway, after all the initial shock wore off, I started to be more willing to do the validation thing and going dim or dark, which ever I felt I needed to do at the time. I would do so good and the second he didn't do something that I thought should be done or I thought he was lying, I went back to saying something that would ruin everything. I finally said 'WTF' the other day and decided to confront him face to face about everything with the OW. I knew the only way I would get the truth was to confront him this way. Well, it worked. He flipped out and blurted out the truth, along with several other cruel things. He left quickly and started texting me saying that he didn't like to be interrogated that way and completely retracted everything he said. He text saying the only reason he said it was true (that he was living with her) was because I was relentless in bringing it up over and over. My response was "Whatever" and I left it at that.
Now, he was suppose to get together a financial agreement for me to hang my hat on if I got my own place so he could move back home, rather than stay with his mom. It's his mom's place so it's not really right for me to stay here, even though I've lived her for 15 yrs. We both have. He's been putting off the agreement since Feb but I only recently started bugging him about it until he couldn't put it off any longer. He kept wanting to know why it had to be on paper bc he was giving me what we agreeed to without it. I know he's scared that I'm going to file for a divorce. I also know that he still loves me. Yes, I love him, too. That doesn't mean that I know we should be married for one more second. I don't think I have the strength to wait this out. I know me...I'll get my own place and put him out of my mind to where i won't even think about saving our marriage. I problem for me right now is that I don't remember the good parts of this man that I married. There's been so much damage that I don't think I can get passed. I'm so ready to move on and that's why I was forcing him to think that I was ready to move on. He!!, I've tried everything else. Today, he dropped off the agreement by putting it in the mailbox. He's being all sweet saying "if there's something in there that I don't agree with, he'll change it". Well thank God for small favors! I don't even want to look at the agreement. I know it will make me sad and then I'll start to remember the good points in this man I married. But when I say there's been too much damage, I mean there's been TOO MUCH DAMAGE. I'm sure I'll tell it all at some point and probably should now, but. I'm not ready to go there, yet.
So, my question is: What do I do now? I have this agreement in my mailbox that I urged him to do but don't even have the courage to look at and I'm packing up my stuff that I don't want to do, either. Why am I so indecisive about moving on? I know he's just manipulating me right now by being nice to see if he still has emotional leverage with me. Why couldn't I just appreciate the times that he was showing progress but would still screw up sometimes. I don't like being manipulated or lied to. No one does, right? But why can't I find some grace that I long for? Do I hold out a little longer to see if this agreement has made him slightly come out of the fog...or, do I move out and forget that this marriage even happened. That's what will happen when I leave. Once I'm gone, I'm gone. I won't look back. That's just how I am. I think that's why I'm scared to leave...?
HELP. Everyone is more than welcome to chime in. You all have been so helpful to me as it is just by reading your journies. I can use any advice you wise folks are willing to give.
Thank you in advance,
Nee
Nee,
You did it! You made your own thread!
Welcome to the MLC Forum. You will meet people who are at various stages of dealing w/the fallout of their spouses being MIA. I am going to post below, Cadet's Welcome Posting. Please read the links and then come back and ask questions, if you should have any.
Welcome to this board.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmMichele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmKeep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296Things you should know as the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701017#Post2701017Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
_________________________
Me-63, D30,S29
Nee,
Maybe I missed something...but why are you the one moving out?
Get the agreement out of the mailbox and put it on a shelf for today. Nothing says you have to look at it until you are ready. However, at some point, you'll need to review it and mark it up and give him your responses. As for holding out, I don't think he's going to change his mind at the moment...it's too soon in MLC land.
Hi Job,
I guess the reason I have to move out is because he's told me to so many times out of anger. It's his mom's condo so I feel that I'm not welcome since he's having to stay with her or other places throughout our city. The OW is where he was last year and I'm sure he still goes there on occasion. Maybe I don't want him there but I'm sure he'll see her if he wants to no matter where his residence is at the time.
I keep screwing up, Job. He was acting like he wanted to reconcile 6 months after he left and said he wanted to move home. I agreed. He backed out and decided to stay with him mom. It hurt. I didn't really believe him when he said he was going to his mom's every night. I saw him making huge strides and he even once said.."I'm hoping this will eventually make us a stronger couple." I obviously liked that comment but he soon went to being a jerk on occasion when it came to little things. Maybe he was having OW withdrawals but I didn't know that was a thing till much later. The second he didn't stay with me a night that i wanted him to, I flipped out and brought up OW. He immidiently went straight back into serious replay mode. It was like a switch went off. I know, I was warned not to do that but my resentment is overwhelming sometimes. I'm hurt. I'm devastated. I'm defeated. I guess I feel like I'm unable to handle this kind of betrayed without hearing him say "I'm sorry" or show remorse.
It's so difficult for me to see the emptiness in his eyes. I saw my old husband's eyes for that short time before I flipped out and it went right back to empty eyes or even wild eyes. After that day, it got so much worse. The anger resurfaced in him and I gave it as good as I got it. Since then, we've gone back and forth between the blame game and slight improvements. The improvements are bashed by my hurt feelings of him not showing remorse for what he's done, so I start in with my "you did this or how could you...etc" Why can't I accept these small gifts of him thawing out for a bit and let his inappropriate comments roll off my back?
Now that I've insisted on him doing a financial agreement, I guess I need to follow though. He doesn't believe me anymore that I'll leave because I've threatened so many times. Everything seems like a joke by my continuous last ditch efforts to have him come around again. I don't know what to do now. Part of me needs to leave but I know if I do, I'm done. That's just who I am. I've already lost everything regarding my life with him, so it's not a huge stretch for me to feel this way. On the other hand, I long for my 'real' husband to surface.
Did I miss out on the opportunity with my husband that time he was showing real progress and I messed it all up? Is it over? I'm lost, Job, Am I too late or can I come through this with grace and forgiveness? I just don't know anymore.
Nee
Nee, the mighty Job will come along and answer you. In the meantime I want to tell you how sorry I am that you are in this situation and how lost you seem to feel about it. Stop blaming yourself for what you did yesterday. That is done. You can't change it. Focus on now. Work on your detachment and GAL. Give him space. If he wants a divorce or separation or agreement, make him do it. Stop trying to give him something you don't want. If you have a job, save your money for when you do have to move. If you don't, get one and save your money and make friends and have something else to think about. All of this takes time and patience. You will drive yourself insane if you keep going at this pace.
Hi Nee,
Congrats on figuring out how to make a thread. Keep posting. OwnIt has given you some VERY sound advice.
Keep posting and try your best not to react. Refresh my memory have you read Divorce Remedy?
xoxoxo
Did I miss out on the opportunity with my husband that time he was showing real progress and I messed it all up?
Is it over?
I'm lost, Job,
Am I too late or can I come through this with grace and forgiveness?
Short answer - uhm NO its never too late to get started DB'ing
Cadet is absolutely correct...it's never too late to beging DBing. However, I want to state that DBing is not just to help you save your married, but it is also a tool to help save you in the process. It's a tool that you can use anywhere at any time.
Now, let's get you back on your feet, dust you off and help you continue walking the path. The past is gone and you can't go back and do a redo. The present is a gift because it's the here and now and you can be the best you can be and the future, well...it's not ours to predict.
If you don't want a divorce, then don't help him any more than necessary. If you state you are going to do something, then follow thru because if you don't, he'll know it's just a threat tactic. Save as much money as you can and squirrel the funds away in a safe place. Watch those credit card accounts and any joint account that you hold together. I would suggest that you remove your name from those joint accounts because your h may begin spending money like it's going out of style.
The last thing I want to say...breathe! Continue posting and know that someone is always here. Come here to vent, scream, laugh and share. If you aren't sure of something, come here and let the posters help you decide whether the action, etc., is the right one to take.
Take care of yourself.
Get an attorney. Get an attorney. Get an attorney.
Do NOT agree to ANYTHING financially until you see an attorney and find out what your rights are.
This doesn't mean you have to file for divorce, but you MUST protect your financial interests and you need the advice of an attorney to do that properly. This part is all business, don't mix it up in the emotional stuff. And BTW? No WAS on here EVER came back because the LBS was a pushover and gave up their financial due in a divorce. Never. So protect your rights and interests.
Did I miss out on the opportunity with my husband that time he was showing real progress and I messed it all up? Is it over? I'm lost, Job, Am I too late or can I come through this with grace and forgiveness? I just don't know anymore.
Hello Nee,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
It is easy to be conflicted when you have so many emotions and thoughts going through your head!
Don't beat yourself up regarding past mistakes on how to handle things. Slip ups happen! The good news is that you are recognizing the slip ups and are learning from them.
Little compares to the devastation people feel when they discover their spouse has been unfaithful. Couples often struggle to get past intense emotional pain, mistrust, resentment and never ending arguments about the betrayal. Healing from infidelity is achievable with the right support and tools.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Hi Own It! I like your name and hope you'll lead me when you're available and treat me with "tough love'; It's a requirement for me. Pity has never been effective. I need for folks to tell me to "own it" so I can be reminded that I will always be a better person if I'm learning valuable lessons in life. So...bring it!
Thank you in advance!
Thank you Kml, Thank you for responding. I feel like I've been very verbal with my financial expectations from H; for now anyway. I agreed to what he offered bc it seemed fair enough. The thing is that I am the one who keeps bringing up divorce. I don't even know if I mean it, or not. My gut tells me one thing and my heart tells me another. I'm sure that's why he's just as confused as I am. I've handled too many situations with anger and resentment. He's spiteful by nature, so this has multiplied by a thousand since MLC. My feelings of him being with OW hits me like a ton of bricks and I start in. I'm so obnoxious and then he reacts the same, of course. He says "you'll never change so it doesn't matter how much I love you, it's useless." That's SO frustrating bc of his horrible behavior toward me as of late. What do they miss in MLC land?? All sense of self?? It's maddening and I the only way I'm going to be able to stop is NC. I know this now. It's nothing but insanity in MLC land it ain't no where I want to be a part of anymore. It's too much for the strongest person to deal with. I can do this!!
Hi Cadet, I'm honored you stopped by. I've watched you closely in the past year and always look forward to your perspective. Thank you!
Hey Bttrfly! Thank for stopping by!! I adore you! No, I have read DR but will be very soon. I'm stubborn in the way that I like to use my own techniques in life but I've figured out that it's actually my manipulations that have not served me well, I guess I didn't realize that's what I've been doing...?? Stupid is..is stupid does. I'm learning!!
Hi Christy,, thank you for your kind words of encouragement. I wonder if the coaching cost anything. I would love it but I'm not able to release any funds at this time. I'm too scared of the outcome!
See an attorney anyway. Unless you are a divorce attorney yourself it is very unlikely that you know all the things that would make a fair legal settlement, and it would be highly unusual for him to be making an offer that truly benefits you. Knowledge is power. Don't sign anything without running it past a lawyer.
Nee, you are putting too much of this on you. It takes two people to sink a marriage. I have not been sure from day 1 whether I want a divorce or not. What I have accepted is that I have to have fight for the marriage for the time being because my H is certainly not in the place to do so. Later on, I can make decisions (if that is even an option) when there is time for clarity and thought. You don't have to know anything now. What you do need to do is read the book and keep your mouth shut. Unless you are 100% certain you want a divorce, do not go down that path with him.
Hi Cadet, I'm honored you stopped by. I've watched you closely in the past year and always look forward to your perspective. Thank you!
I don't make it here to MLC too often however please read my welcome post that Job posted to you along with all the links.
Also find the welcome post in newcomers and read that with the links.
Knowledge is Power and that is the best thing you can DO!
Hi Cadet,
I've read all that at least twice. Lol No kidding. I've been on here since 3/16 and have spent SO many hours reading what you all have said and then reading them again. I still screw up over and over when it comes to my emotions and the OW. It's overwhelming sometimes but I'm getting better at it. I try to keep myself very busy, so that helps. I know you all have seen and heard it enough to where I don't really have to express into words what my H says from day to day. It's like dealing with a 10 year old with no respect whatsoever. I waited too long to read about boundaries and let him get away with some awful stuff. No longer on that playing field so that's one less thing to worry about. Still, he gets a little rough sometimes but I put him in check real quick like.
Thank you for checking in with me. You're a doll!
I have talked with an attorney but not at length about what I'm afforded in case this comes to a divorce. I'm doing that next week. Thank you!!
Hello Mighty Job!!
Thank you for responding! I've done most of what you've suggested in the way of joint accounts and credit cards. I hate to jinx myself, but H hasn't gone crazy with the money. He has been giving me what I need but probably less than I want. Lol. We don't keep any money in the joint checking acct other than what he gives me for bills. So far, so good. But I know exactly what you're saying about squirreling away 'my' money. I don't keep any money in my personal account except for personals and maybe utility money that he hasn't agreed to pay. Things like the cable bill and my cell aren't worth arguing over.
My issue is that I've started all this with me moving out thing and feel like I have to follow thru with it. I've had stuff packed up in boxes for 8 months but still haven't done anything in the way of moving out. I know he thinks I'm all talk bc I told him that if I leave bc of his crazy antics, I won't be returning...ever. He said, "Well, you haven't gone anywhere, yet!" In other words, he's saying that he's not going to stop his crazy antics because he knows that I'm not going to leave. I'm scared to leave bc I know myself well enough to know that when I'm gone...I'm done. It's always been like that with me. I run. I run far. I don't look back. It's just something I've always done as a survival technique. I've been abandon so many times throughout my life and I only know to start over in order to save myself.
I can tell my H is getting nervous. He was very reluctant to figure out the financial agreement. I guess he thinks the money convo is the end all..?? He put it in the mailbox and sent me a text saying "if there's anything that you don't agree with, I'll fix it." I was short in my response. I've been ending my text by saying his name at the end. Ex; Thanks, Larry. His name isn't Larry but you get the idea. He doesn't like that at all. He always ask why do I keep saying his name? I think he believes that I'm cutting him off by doing it and it's certainly not to be meant as friendly. I've done some spewing since then by reminding him of everything that's happened. I know not to do this. I know it's not DB'ing but sometimes I can't help myself. It washes over me like a flood and I need for him to know what he's done right that minute. WHY??? Why do I do that??!! I know that he knows what he's done. He's even told me that he cries all the time and that he doesn't know how to fix this. He said the last part right after the OW was discovered. I just spewed hate back then so it really didn't get very far in the way of reconciling.
I know H is asking my brother to find out if I'm seeing anyone. My brothers worship H so they will do whatever he ask of them. So, what's your take on this? Just when I've asked him to do something like the financial agreement that he thinks is the first sign of divorce, he starts trying to find out if I'm seeing anyone. Also, he's having a fit that I'm going to be out of town a few nights next week an he has to stay with our dog. He said "you're staying overnight?" I've rarely done that at all since he's left. Why is he so inquisitive right now? He has the mind of a 8 year old so I'm I can't help but think that he is starting to feel like he's losing me all together. Any thoughts?
Thank you in advance, Job!!
Hey Own It,
You intrigued me, so I read the beginnings of your sitch and feel your pain. I know you must feel drained. I often wonder why I've stayed as long as I have, too. Why?? I've always been told that I'm easy on the eyes, so I know I could find another man to put up with me.lol I'm sure you're equally HOT!
Anyway, I highly doubt the reward is worth all this pain and heartache these men have caused us. I will occasionally remember the good times in my marriage and quickly go back to what's happened the last 15 months...then I start hating him again. My emotions get the better of me sometimes but I've kept it fairly cool under the circumstances. I know my H knows exactly what he's doing but does it anyway. I would watch him watch me while he was texting OW. I know they like the euphoria behind the possibility of getting caught. Then it got to the point that he was texting her constantly in every situation we were in. We could be in the middle of a family function and he would be texting her constantly. It was so obnoxious. As I sit here and type this, I'm making myself sick to my stomach.
As far as me putting too much of this on me, I've always been guilty of that. BUT, I have been awful to him over the years. I emasculated him in front of others, made him feel replaceable, kinda cheated (long story) and just downright mean. I have issues that I've been dealing over the years and it wasn't easy to see myself in that light. I finally got off drugs, quit drinking and made a conscious effort to stop my bad behavior. I think I had my own MLC and he was there but only in body. He was addicted to alcohol, porn and video games for years. I'm talking 12 hours at a time playing World of Warcraft and countless hours watching porn. I got tired of being ignored so I found a place that made me feel special. I swear, I was so close to putting my foot in that damn computer!
I wonder how you feel about questions on intimacy? I have to share bc I feel like you have either been thru this or something close to it. So, I did EVERYTHING he wanted in the bedroom dept. Some of it was humiliating. He was selfish in every way and the bedroom wasn't any different. This is the sort of thing that makes me wonder why in the he!! Am I sticking around?! Why would I want to go back to this kind of marriage??
My confusion comes when I read the 6 stages of MLC. The part when they have their first awakening after replay. They supposedly make all these changes they should have made years ago; for a while. My H actually did get to that point but it was too short lived and I'm not sure he was in the complete awakening. I shouldn't have brought up OP bc I know that's what put him back in the tunnel for a much more difficult round for me. BUT, aren't they suppose to come out a much better person when all is said and done? I saw where Vanilla talked to you about abuse and I feel my H is the definition of NPD. I'm just not sure if it's true because of what's happened since MLC began or if I've lived with it from day one. Could I have been that blind?? I honestly don't know. Do you still think your H has NPD by the way he treated you throughout your marriage? I'm so confused.
Today is my 17 wedding Anniversary and I'm pretty much numb to it. He's already texted me to see if he can pick up our dog to spend time with him. He was being cordial and agreeable. He's like that sometimes but I can't remember if it's when I'm being nice or if he still does it when I'm being not so nice. Hard to tell these days bc I'm too hurt and angry to care about his feelings. I've been wanting to manipulate him into sending me a sweet text (I can do that) and then sending it to OW. I know how wrong it is so I've been good. It's probably just because it's my anniversary but I've been known to do a lot worse before my marriage. Before I was a better person. I'm hoping that I keep my composure and save what little bit of dignity I have left by not doing it. I've been so manipulated and lied to so many times that I often feel spiteful. I want to rise above this and stay cool. I pray I do that at all times in the future.
Anyway, I'm thru with my rant. Thank you for any perspective you may have on my sitch. It's much appreciated!! I hope your weekend is fabulous!!
Xx, Nee
Nee, you really have to come to terms with what you want. You are all over the place. If you were in your car driving from point A to point B (but weren't sure if you wanted pointed X or point Z) you would need to know where you were heading to have any chance of getting there. I don't think this is all that different.
I'm not sure at this point if my H is NPD, MLC, or PA or some combination thereof. I am in NYC to see my daughter perform at a recital. Apparently he flew here overnight on the redeye and will fly home immediately after today (and we live on the opposite coast). This is a guy who can't even text or call her consistently. Nothing they do makes sense.
On the intimacy issue, mine acted very much like a prude with me and constantly withheld emotion, affection, sex, etc. (Although I do believe he is a cerebral narcissist with a serious madonna/whore complex). I was literally shocked to find his CL ads for threesomes with lesbians. Did not see that coming. At this point I don't feel like I have any idea who he is or perhaps who he ever was.
Sounds like you have some compulsive and/or addictive behaviors. It is good that you own your problems from the past but what are you actively doing to change them. It seems as though you want to move to prove to him you will move in the hope that he will take you seriously and/or want you back. Stop looking over your shoulder to see what he is doing.
Not surprising that he is asking about you. Both NPD and MLC like control. He probably wants to know what you are doing. Mine also has a very big control thing. I feel him keeping tabs on me but I let it go.
At the end of the day it is very simple. Work on you. If you want a chance with him, stay in the house. What if you unpacked? I would think that would freak him out. What if you unpacked and stopped all communication except responding to business type requests. What if you worked on the addictions, got a meaningful job and moved forward with your life. You want to see him freak out? Try those things. If you are done, move out and put him in your rearview. Much easier thing to do with no kids (and I don't recall seeing any mentioned).
As a first matter, where are you going?
Nee,
Please understand that the 6 stages of MLC are just a guideline. Nothing is set in stone. In fact, the stages aren't linear, but they can bounce back and forth until they finally realize that they've exhausted all avenues of escape. In fact, the stages are very similar to those of grief. I've said this many times over, do not try to figure out where he is in the crisis because he'll be bouncing off the walls for quite some time and the timelines are just a guideline. Each person is unique because of their childhoods and the issues that they have and so shall each of their actions be different while in crisis.
Put the stages away and focus on you. No matter what, there's nothing you can do to wake him up or making his crisis go any faster...it's on him. You can't control him, nor fix him. He has to do the repair work on his own.
Again...keep the focus on you! Take care of you!
I knew I liked you, Own it.
It's all so crazy, isn't it? I can give so much useful advice sometimes to others but can hardly see what I'm doing wrong at any time of the day. That's why I came here. You folks talk me off the ledge every single time I need it. I actually just sent you a response from your other thread "Not sure if it's NPD'.." to give you my perspective on what you're husband was doing in the beginning stages of your sitch. I hope you'll read it because your H is SO much like mine.
You're right, Own it. I am all over the place. I'm in a unique living situation so it's not all that cut and dry. Still, I like your advice. I just don't know right now if I want to save my marriage. I know he doesn't really want me to leave in his heart but I sure don't know what his MLC is trying to say. He refuses to communicate on any level understanding. I know I just probably follow thru with moving out but I know I will be done if I do. That's my dilima. If I did my pros and cons as ive always done, I would be out the door in a heartbeat...but we're not dealing with something that logical. I hate it. I really do.
I'm still continuing to work on myself and learning who I am at my core. It's strange to know that I'm still discoverying myself at 46 years old but I figure that it's better than not doing it. I know I'm a good person but am I good all the time. Can I do better? Will I do better? It's a test that I'm doing daily and it really helps me.
No one said life is boring.
Xx, Nee
Hi Job,
I know..I've heard it a million times over. Don't put any real thought into the stages. It's hard not to but I'm getting better at leaving it be. Trust me, I use to look for hours at these stages trying to figure it all out. Moving forward.
Things go well when I'm dark or dim and he gets very attentive but I don't know how to handle his attempts on willingness to interact during this time. He'll ask me to go to breakfast with him but i get confused because I don't know if he's been with OW the night before. I typically know bc he's at his mom's prior to he invitation but it still gets to me if I'm unsure if he's seen her recently. Is this a good idea to go with him to breakfast? We do seem to enjoy the time together and he does get closer to me widen I cut the visit short without him initiating the goodbye first. Still, should I get together with him when I'm getting good results from not contacting him until he reaches out to me. I don't like the idea that he may be just checking in rather than really reconnecting with me. He does make good eye contact with me and continues to move forward with a good attitude...until I get resentful again. I guess I need to deal with this anger and hurt inside but I don't want to miss the opportunity to reconnect with him if he's genius. Should I go to breakfast with him?
Thank you, Nee
Nee, I just checked out your response on my Newcomer thread. Yes, the people here and the stories here have helped me considerably in a short period of time. I don't think I would have been able to detach as much as I have had I not come here. But, I have much wore work to do. The fact that his coldness and his treatment of my daughter (not to mention completely ignoring my son) continue to bother me show that I am nowhere near where I need to be. But I am proud of how I have handled the journey and proud of my success.
Onto you. While you don't know what you want, sit tight. Moving out is making a choice and it likely will have long-lasting consequences for you.
Figure out what you want. You cannot negotiate, you cannot move forward, you cannot really do much of anything that will be in alignment with your rue self unless you know what you want. Impatience will not help you. Trying to adapt what you want to what your spouse wants will not help your marriage or your husband, not to mention the damage it will ultimately do to you.
OwnIt is right - the best gift you can give yourself is to sit tight until you really know what you want. That advice came from our mediator, and it's proven to be exceptionally sound in my case. It's not easy to resist the temptation to jump to a quick fix, but if you really sit with yourself long enough to figure out what it is that you really want, you can then move forward from a position of strength.
In my case, I had lousy cards to choose from - either sell our house so our son could stay in his school, or stay in our house and have son move to a school in a town he never lived in where he didn't really know anyone. My son loves his school and to him that house was his home. When he was little he would say to us after an outing, "I've had fun but let's go back to our cozy home." It was and remains very painful to me to have sold that property, but what I wanted for my son was a solid education with as little disruption to his life as possible. He would have left in two years for college and the house would have been sold at that time. To me, it was better to keep him in his school, where he'd been and thrived since 7th grade. That was what would give him the most advantage and good memories in his life. This was not an easy decision to come to for me, Nee, but I gave myself time to sit with my thoughts and feelings, sort through it all with as little emotion as possible and then I moved forward. I did it on MY timetable, not my exh's. BTW, doing it on my Exh's timetable wouldn't have save the marriage. It would have only put me in a position of weakness on the business end of this relationship.
Figure out what you want. Take as much time as you need to do so.
^^^true self not rue self. acting precipitously will absolutely be in line with your rue self, lol, as there's a high probability that you will rue any decisions made in haste.
Own It,
I need to go back and read all your threads and follow your journey, I can tell just by responses to me that you've come a long way from where you were in the beginning,
One thing I am SO grateful for is the no kids part of my sitch. We do have 2 dogs and they were pitiful when he came and went at his leisure, but I know it would be nothing compared to watching my children be neglected or just tossed aside.
I think about what I would do to my H had he done some of these things had we had kids and I see a monster in me. I don't know how you mom's do it. From what I can tell, y'all go into survival mode (mama bear) and protect your young by showing strength to your children and living life as a single parent. I'm sure I would if I had to in order to protect the child, but I garauntee I wouldn't have the grace most of you mom's have during this difficult time.
I wonder if your mother-n-law has scolded your H. My mother-n-law would have a fit if she knew what her son was doing, but I spare her of the details BUT, I don't think I would have to worry about my H doing this much damage had we had children bc his mom would crawl his a**...but then that would be a whole set of other problems.
I detest MLC! Other than the death of my H, I can't think of anything worse than going thru MLC with a spouse. In fact, my H did die. He's not the man I married, so I consider him dead and gone most of the time. I see MLC as some sort of breakdown of sorts, but I rarely treat him like he's 'unwell'. I had a lot more compassion for him before I discovered OW. It all went down hill from there, of course. No more compassion..just anger and hurt..hurt and anger..anger and hurt.
The loyalty we had as a couple was unheard of...I thought. If he knew what he was doing while in MLC and was in his right mind, he wouldn't believe he could do such things. Maybe that's what happens for the awakening to come about but they sure don't want to go there anytime soon, do they??!!!!
I'm just ranting this morning and not focused whatsoever on what I need to do in the way of my living situation. I guess that's what you all have been saying to me every chance you get. I DON'T KNOW what I want. Why do I have to know???? I mean, I can play house by myself for as long as I want without having to move, but I don't want to seem like waiting on him to come back bc I don't think I could live with who he is today. Maybe that will be my breaking point...he decides to move home and i get the heck out! It sure makes more sense than me paying rent somewhere any sooner than I have to.
Should I continue packing up my stuff and putting them in boxes just in case? I don't know what kind of message that is sending but I hope it's telling him that I'm willing and ready to move out at any time I feel froggy. Is that wrong??
Nee, my H's mother is literally crazy. He never had anything to do with her during our marriage. Once he left I could tell from the phone bill they communicated often. She doesn't like me. She made that clear from day one. She was waiting for this and no doubt reveling in it. Their family is very dysfunctional. Divorce everywhere. Lots of cheating and addiction issues.
You are correct about survival mode. Kids need love and stability. When the other person can't give it (and is indeed making it worse by the moment) there is nothing you can do but find your inner calm and focus on them. I always knew I would be OK without him. He has been emotionally absent for 7 years so our lives are not altogether different now.
I don't think you should move. I think you should unpack, settle in, and let him make the efforts to get you out if that is what he wants. Detach completely and work on you. You have a lot of stuff to work on. Get a job and save money for when you do have to move. You don't have to know this stuff now. You really don't. What you do have to do is make a life for yourself.
I often think of my H as dead, it makes things easier for me and it directs me to make a life that does not involve him in any way.
I'm just ranting this morning and not focused whatsoever on what I need to do in the way of my living situation. I guess that's what you all have been saying to me every chance you get. I DON'T KNOW what I want. Why do I have to know????
Nee,
You ask "why do I have to know" and I answer by asking you this: How in the heck do you think you're going to get what you want if you don't know what that is?
Ok, you don't know what you want. That is a place to start. So instead of packing why don't you take that energy and try to sit quietly and wait for the answers so you will eventually know what it is you want???
Why do you have to tell him anything? Nee, this isn't about him at all. This is about YOU.
Job outlined something for me very early on and I wrote it on a post it and kept it on my monitor at work so I would have a constant reminder. Here it is:
1. Don't rush the process
2. Only plan one week out
3. Do something physical - go for a walk, swim, yoga, whatever floats your boat, but do something physical once a day
4. When you are unsure, DO NOTHING
5. Sit quietly and wait for the answers.
This is the best advice I can give you. I'll add one more thing: DETACH. DETACH. DETACH. as Kml posts to me to this day when I need it: Drop the rope or be dragged.
I hear what you're saying, bttrfly. One thing I have noticed about myself is that I'm packing my stuff up without emotions anymore. I'm worried about that. This feeling of starting anew is not something I ever thought would come about. I use to think tha I could just pack my stuff up and think of it as cleaning out my cabinets. I clean them thoroughly (it had to be done anyway) and then I can just put the stuff back in a clean cabinet if we reconcile. Is that stupid? Again, I don't know what message that is sending my husband so I may be setting myself up for failure. I do that often.
How do you feel about doing your pros and cons in a MLC situation. I've done that all life and that's when I know what to do. But, there's obviously more to weigh in when analyzing my life while dealing with a S in MLC. What do you think about he pros and cons thing in general?
About your sitch, do you think it would be possible that having that lousy set of cards could have been a blessing in disguise? I feel like my options are too many to be decisive on any one particular thing. You had to do what was best for your son, so there it is. Done. I don't have anyone to look after but myself and that's never served me well in the decision making department. I say that you mom's have it so much worse because you have your kids and have to see what they are going through. But, you also have to find strength in order to do what's best for them instead of just concentrating on yourself. I'm sure the lesser of two evils is my sitch since I don't have to see any kids be affected but having too many options is not good for me. I get way too overwhelmed when I have to be decisive. I know...I know..I need to go to counseling. I DON'T feel like it!!
I've been in therapy my entire life due to my horrific childhood and it's all the same. They make you talk about your problems without giving me any real skill sets to deal with what I'm going through at the time. They only want to make a dollar as much as they can by making you come to as many sessions as possible without receiving any real help. It was the same with my Congnittive Behavioral therapist. I literally had to blurt out "Can you just help me by telling me what to do??" It was only then that she gave me a few exercises so I can drive on highways again or go over bridges. They helped me tremendously but not before I had to ask and not before I dropped $600 beforehand yapping about nothing really constructive. Don't you ever feel like that sometimes during your sessions?
I will rue the day when I screw up again! Lol. It's all relative..:)
Own it, I don't think I really want to reconcile with my H. I don't think I have it in me to forgive the things he's done to me. I really don't . I think if I start unpacking that he will automatically think that I'm not going anywhere and I fear that is sending the wrong message.
The fact that I'm leaning towards starting a new life for myself doesn't mean that I'm fully prepared to do so at this time. I guess I can keept things as they are and try to hang out as long as possible until I am prepared to leave. Maybe just take things as they come and try to keep my emotions under way. My thoughts on ever reconciling with him is that how would I ever know if I'm willing to do it if he's never going to be remorseful? Everyday gets easier for me to accept this so the moving out thing is based on that.
As far as getting a job, I don't think I can be productive well enough to perform at the pace any company may need me to. I get overwhelmed very easily. It'a part of my bipolar and anxiety disorder. I've been on meds for a long time and probably need to be re-evaluated but I don't want to do that either. I don't want to do anything more than I have to bc as soon as I do, I go into a frenzy of uncontrolled dispair. I have worked some during tax season for a friend at my own pace and that was helpful but that's over now. I doubt any company will allow me the time I need to collect myself the way I need to from time to time. I've done it before and it doesn't work well. I'm not saying that I'm giving up hope on finding work but I'm sure not very optimist about it. I will try to do better in thinking of myself first. It's hard. Thank you for your advice!!
Bttrfly, I'll try to keep things as calm as possible and do the other things that you suggest. I've definitely only been planning one week out as I don't have the fortitude to do much else. I'm not sure if it's depression or just the unknowing of what's to come. I've always been in control in every aspect of my life, so this is a huge adjustment for me. I know most women are like that but I'm saying I was in control of EVERYTHING. It wasn't a good thing and I know that now. It doesn't make it that much easier though. I'll try to sit quietly and do nothing but that's VERY difficult for me to do. So very difficult. I'll also try doing more physical activity on a daily basis. We'll see how I do this week!!! Thank you for your advice!!!
Bttrfly,
I think I was insensitive to you in my last post. I know how hard you've struggled with your spouse in MLC. I know that you found strength in your son but I also know that you have been down many days. I guess I just see you as strong more than anything else. Your Zen-like manner is something that I admire. You are compassionate, too. Much more than I am. I know you probably want to cuss your husband out at times, but you don't. I don't cuss at my H anymore but I don't show him compassion like I did before finding out about OW. I'm mad. I'm hurt. I'm devastated. I don't fully know how to deal with those emotions when it comes to that sort of betrayal. I'm probably more mad at myself for snooping in order to find out about OW. I read so many people on here that have found out about OP and thought...not my H. He would NEVER do such a thing. I have to get my emotions under control before they destroy me.
Anyway, I'm truly sorry for undermining the pain you've experienced throughout your journey. I know the hurt was there, regardless of having to be strong for your son. Again, I'm truly sorry.
Xx, Nee
Hi Nee, I didn't feel that you undermined my pain. Funny thing, now that I'm on the other side of this with exh, I really don't seem to pay too much attention to what other people say most of the time, or take things as personally as I once did.
Having a child does make things a bit clearer in some ways, but then it complicates things in others. I needed to make sure that the decisions I made for my boy also worked for me too, as I would be the one left here when son went off to college. My son was 15 1/2 when exh walked out. I had to make decisions that worked for both of us, and also would preserve as much for the family in case exh came back. I remember that being a motivator in the beginning until I really came to terms with the fact that my marriage as I knew it was dead and gone. If exh came back, whatever we would create together would be something brand new.
It's difficult for people who have been in relationships a long time to understand that concept that there ISN'T one any longer. I remember saying to my exh pretty much immediately after BD there used to be a team Bttrfly and exh, now there is only a team Bttrfly and a Team exh. There's also a team Son, and we'd better both be on that, but in terms of each other, forget it - that's over.
And it really is, Nee. THat's why it is imperative that you detach as much as you can and spend however long you need to figuring out exactly what it is you want before you take definitive action.
xo
Ok, I think I understand what you're saying, Bttrfly. My marriage to H is dead and gone. I shouldn't expect the connection we once had. He's actually said that in frustration.."It's never going to be like it use to be.'" He said that in the middle of a R talk and he was upset that it was a realistic statement that he was making. I didn't believe it at the time. I thought if he would just come out of the tunnel at some point, he would want to reconnect and become one with me again. I HAVE seen that happen on here. I suppose it could have been because the LBS did detach thoroughly in order for the MLC'er to come back around and out of the fog. I don't recall all the reconciliation discussions but I do remember that I was hoping this would happen for me and my H.
Good grief...this is exhausting and so much out of my hands. I'm totally going to give this to God. I'm a Christian and feel I have lost my faith. I'm visiting with a good Christian friend in our beautiful North Carolina mountains right now and I want to enjoy my visit. I'm hoping she will pray heavily with me. Right now, I can't get my H to answer my text to let me know he's with our dog and find out if he has any questions. It's been so long since he's had him to himself and I feel like I've left this poor dog to a stranger. I hope he's just being a jerk and not responding because he actually is a jerk. I don't want to believe I've left our dog to someone so unwell to where he could be careless with him. i don't think I'll be able to do this again for quite some time.
I like what you said to H right after BD. I like how you knew right away that your marriage was no longer going to be a marriage. I wish I had the foresight that you had so early on. It shows your strength to your exh right off the bat. Good on ya!
May I ask what was the BD in your sitch? I've read most of your sitch starting at the end. I've not had the chance to fully read to the beginning, I'm just curious but understand if you don't want to discuss it.
Xx, Ne
Nee:
Responding to your post on my thread. I wish I knew what to tell you. It seems that you have a great deal of conflict about whether to remain in the marriage. At times you seem almost certain about ending it, at others you seem very hurt but wanting it to work out. I don't think that is unusual, this is a difficult time for the LBS as well.
Yes, my H was very abusive to me for the last three years of our marriage. About my weight, my looks, watching TV, drinking Diet Coke, screwing the top on bottles, which restaurant I picked, what the kids did or didn't do, etc. Pretty much anything I did or touched or thought about was wrong and it was his duty to humiliate me about it. I finally got smart. I set down a boundary. Beginning in December I made it clear to him that I would no longer engage with him. Every time he becomes unpleasant I let him know that I will not tolerate the behavior or words and then I tell him that I am done talking to him until the behavior improves. I think he gets now that I am not going to fight with him, I will not respond to his attempts to start a fight, and that I prefer to keep topics on business and business only.
The mental movies are difficult. I think it takes detachment and time to make them go away. I don't think the counselor has helped me as much as reading the stories on this site. Some go back years and years. Some resulted in reconciliations, more in divorce. In general, the people who really DB seem far more content with their outcome than those who do not. You also have to remember, as hard as it is, that this is not about the OW. The percentage of otherwise happy men who are seduced by harlots looking for love has to be very minor. These women are symptoms of the breakdown of the marriage or the individual involved.
I always thought it was the lies more than the OW that did the real harm to the relationship. So many times he literally tried to make me think I was crazy to cover up his actions. What kind of person would do that?
There is only one way out of your situation. You must let him go. You must stop hoping that he will come back. You must build your own life. If you cannot work in an office, find a different kind of job. If you can't work how will you support yourself and move out. That is what, in my humble opinion, that you should be focusing on. How will you take care of Nee? I love 25's question--pretend he
died, who would you be, what would you be doing, how would you support yourself. Start living that life right now.
Maybe he will come back. Maybe he won't. Maybe he will come back and you will be so strong and courageous and beautiful that you will not want to be with someone who abuses you or speaks to you in a hateful way.
If he were dead:
1. Where would you be living?
2. How would you be paying for it?
3. What people would be in your life?
4. How would you be spending your days?
5. What activities would you be pursuing?
Start that stuff now!
Ok, I think I understand what you're saying, Bttrfly. My marriage to H is dead and gone. I shouldn't expect the connection we once had. He's actually said that in frustration.."It's never going to be like it use to be.'" He said that in the middle of a R talk and he was upset that it was a realistic statement that he was making. I didn't believe it at the time. I thought if he would just come out of the tunnel at some point, he would want to reconnect and become one with me again. I HAVE seen that happen on here. I suppose it could have been because the LBS did detach thoroughly in order for the MLC'er to come back around and out of the fog. I don't recall all the reconciliation discussions but I do remember that I was hoping this would happen for me and my H.
Good grief...this is exhausting and so much out of my hands. I'm totally going to give this to God. I'm a Christian and feel I have lost my faith. I'm visiting with a good Christian friend in our beautiful North Carolina mountains right now and I want to enjoy my visit. I'm hoping she will pray heavily with me.
Right now, I can't get my H to answer my text to let me know he's with our dog and find out if he has any questions. It's been so long since he's had him to himself and I feel like I've left this poor dog to a stranger. I hope he's just being a jerk and not responding because he actually is a jerk. I don't want to believe I've left our dog to someone so unwell to where he could be careless with him. i don't think I'll be able to do this again for quite some time.
I like what you said to H right after BD. I like how you knew right away that your marriage was no longer going to be a marriage. I wish I had the foresight that you had so early on. It shows your strength to your exh right off the bat. Good on ya!
May I ask what was the BD in your sitch? I've read most of your sitch starting at the end. I've not had the chance to fully read to the beginning, I'm just curious but understand if you don't want to discuss it.
Focus on yourself and your dog and ask for Divine guidance. The answers will come in God's time.
HI Own it,
I wonder if your husband was always abusive to some extent prior to the last 3 years he was extremely abusive. I keep a journal of everyday of my life for the past 30 years. I've had to throw some of them away because of abusive relationships prior to my marriage. I noticed from reading through the last few years that he had been exceptionally abusive. Yes, he was at times abusive before that but I guess I figured that one of us had to back down so things wouldn't get out of hand, and that person was me. He would say things like "You're going to piss me off.", and that was my cue to shut it. I usually did shut it just to keep the peace, If's funny, he would ALWAYS start a fight right before we went to my parents house for a holiday or b'day. He knew how much it meant to me for things to go well while we there, but he intentionally started something anyway. That's when I realized he was spiteful. It took me years to figure that out, too. He was letting something stew for a good month or even longer and strike when he thought it would hurt me the most. I never unsderstood why someone would purposefully want to hurt someone they love. I'm not saying that I'm above it, but I certainly wouldn't try to make someone's family gathering a disaster because of hurt feelings or a previous arguement. I know that spitefulness is a learned behavior. HIs mother is spitedul. I would be embarrassed if I was seen as spiteful. I'm already a know-it-all so the added spitefulness wouldn't bode well for me. When I finally confronted him about what he was dong before myfamily gatherings or before my bday, he kinda laughed about it. It was like he was proud that he had mastered the skill well enough to where I didn't notice it for a long time. I would say that it's childish behavior, but his mother does it, too. I guess no one is immune to spitefulness. It's sad and pathetic.
I wonder if you are aware that you are also holding on to a little hope. If not, what is it that keeps you from letting yourself go ahead and file for a divorce? I wonder if you make the same excuses that I do? I don't really know if I know if they are excuses but saying that hope is a possibility seems like an excuse to me. Sill, I haven't let go of the hope completely. You fine folks give me excellent advise on detachment, but I feel like my only way to fully detach is to get a divorce. I know in my head that this will end in a divorce. My heart says another thing. Bttrfly say to sit quietly. I wish I could do that.
BOO to MLC!!
Xx, Nee
Nee,
Your h's behavior sounds like he's learned some passive-aggressive moves. This is a learned trait from childhood. You might want to do some reading on this.
Hi Bttrfly,
Thank you for responding! I've been thinking about the reconnection process and that's a tough one for me. The reason is because we do actually reconnect at different times but I mess it up. We'll start going to breakfast together and I listen intently to what he says and try to validate what he says. It's very difficult sometimes bc I've always been one who plays "devil's advocate" to give another perspective. The reason I do that is usually bc he or a friend is bit**ing and moaning about a boss, and I think that they need to understand every aspect of what's happened. H: Gerry [censored]. He has no idea what my responsibilities are without him adding more sh*t to my load." Me; I totally get it. I bet Gerry has a lot on his plate too, and probably hasn't learned how to delegate as well as you have." Well, I stopped doing that bc I know I'm suppose to validate only. BUT, after we start reconnecting and I start detaching again, he gets inappropriate in his behavior. I don't know if I should just stay dim after we do our breakfast's together or continue being super nice.(even if I don't want to) I rarely stay nice so I don't know why I used that as an option.
The last time I failed was when I had the flu. I text him and said "I have the flu and I don't feel like I can handle all this responsibitly right now." I was basically saying that I need him to step up as a human being in general. Help with the dogs or I don't even know what I meant, but I know that I was just testing him. His response "Instead of talking about responsiblities (we all have them), just tell me what you need." Well, that flew all over me. I mean, did I really think he was going to all the sudden start being a loving husband again?? No, I didn't. It's like I was setting myself up for failure. I immediately started telling him that I never thought he would be selfless enough to take care of me if I was an invalid. LOL! Talk about pathetic!!! That didn't go well, of course. He said that was the last outburst he was going to take and that it was OVER. We've both said that before a hundred times, so it's never been the end all when it's said. Still, I can't help but test those waters sometimes.
I need some advice on how to handle when we are getting along and he's asking to go to breakfast. If I know that i can't contain myself when he starts acting like a jerk again, should I not even go to breakfast with him? Maybe just find a reason not to go? We do have some nice interaction sometimes while reconnecting, but then something always happens. Why is it so difficult for me to find empathy in this man who I love and is severely depressed? I realize that he can't love me while he's depressed, but the stuff he says cuts me to the core. I give it back, of course. This is the reason that I thing this will end in a divorce. The betrayal, unrealistic lies, verbal abuse and then betrayal again...its all wrapped up in a pretty little package just waiting to be opened again. I know one thing for sure...Things would have gone a lot smoother had I behaved differently I'm so very tired of beating myself up, too. Still, I know I'm going to fail at this every time.
Xx, Nee
Nee,
For the last 7 years he has shown rages. For the first 4 years these would come every 3-6 months. Other than that he was a little controlling, lazy, and self-involved. Over the last 3 years I started seeing gaslighting, lying, entitlement, full on rages, silent treatments, complete disconnection, withholding of emotion and affection. Over the last year it has been ramped up even more. Since October when he left the second time, he has been ice cold with occassional spews.
He is definitely temperature checking frequently (about once a week since October). Pretty consistent. Almost like clockwork. Seems very concerned about the kids and me getting too far away from him. The analogy I use it that we are balloons and he has to jerk the string every once and a while to make sure we are still tethered to him.
My counselor says she has never seen the WS insist on the LBS relocating near him. I think this is just to keep an eye on us/control us/maintain a view to coming back someday. Something. We are not moving.
This guy he is now has not been there the whole time. That is what makes me think MLC. The timing is spot on. The background is there. The behaviors are consistent.
He does love to ruin holidays, birthdays/anniversaries, etc. as well as vacations.
I am aware that there is a little hope left. I want to kill it. That is why I'm turning my focus to me (even more so than the kids rights now). I just signed up for my first Orange Theory class (thank you leahsue)!
Own it,
You wanting to kill that little bit of hope is exactly how I feel. I would have never thought I would feel this way about my marriage.
It seems like your H is extremely arrogant. Mine is, too. I didn't really ever see him as arrogant before bc he put on a charade for so long prior to MLC. It's so obvious to me now as to who I was married to. I guess I thought it was enough for me at the time, but that's not the case anymore. I'm not saying that I'm in any way thinking about finding someone else who will give me more, but I ain't settling for less next go round.
I was thinking about you asking about the signs of rock bottom and thought about what has to happen for that to come about. They have to lose EVERYTHING they hold dear in their life. Well he!!..that could take forever for them to preceive that's what's happened. I guess it depends on how much they hold dear to them, but what about what comes alone during MLC that they hold dear to their heart?? Those are subjects we know nothing about, so I would we ever know if they have lost it or not? This crap is never ending.
I'm so glad that you are working on yourself. I am, too. There's no way for us to control what these wreckless humans are doing. I use to think that if I could only get him to come home that I could keep his drinking in check. Well, that's awfully arrogant of me to think I could have that much influence over him. Sure, I could nag him about it till the cows come home, but he would only resent me for it later. That's what always happened, so what's up with me wanting to go back there? It's probably bc I'm worried about him drinking and driving, but a lot of it has to do with control. My marriage was volatile. I know that now. There will have to be an act of God in order for that to change. I pray, but we all know that God ask that we do our part. That's not our timeline.
Hi Job,
I just read up on passive-aggressive moves and you are so right about my H being this way. I honestly didn't know the meaning of this behavior. I see myself in some of those traits, too. I'm going to continue researching it so I'll learn how to not behave this way. That's important to me. Thank you for your suggestion! It's a huge eye-opener.
Question; How would you respond to my H if he was very friendly in some text exchanges but then stops cold? I know to stop the convo too but how do I react when he reaches out again? He reaches out and then will eventually will want to have breakfast with me soon after we've been friendly again for a while. We're at friendly right now but I don't think I could go back to having breakfast's with him again. I probably could but I'm too bitter about the OW still. I don't know how to get past this hurt and bitterness.
I'm glad you were able to take some time to read up on passive-aggressive behavior. Try to remember that this is a learned behavior.
If your h reaches out and is friendly, there is no harm in being friendly. What I would suggest is that you don't respond back quickly. I would wait a bit before responding back. This sends the message that you aren't sitting there waiting for him to message you. It gives him the impression that you are busy. If he asks why you didn't respond back asap, just say, "h, I was busy". You do not have to go into detail w/him.
They do reach out and then pull back. This is typical behavior so there's no need to get upset or feel desperate and contact him. Sometimes, they do this to play the came of distance/pursuit to see if you will take the bait and pursue them. Don't!
Have you thought about changing things up and not going to breakfast w/him every so often? You do have control over your life and can decide whether this is a good idea or not. If you don't feel comfortable with going to breakfast or doing things w/him, gradually find other things to do or suggest a different time/date. You have to decide what you are comfortable with and go from there.
Hey Job,
I know the whole breakfast thing is coming up and I don't want to go. The problem with me cutting him off with "I'm busy" and leaving it at that is he gets very cold. He knows I'm not a one-line responder, so when I do get short, he automatically gets short and cold with me. I don't like going back and forth with the hot and cold. Not in the way to save my marriage but to be on a friendly basis with him. Even if we do end up in a divorce, I still want to be able to be friendly with him.
He can't stand it when I won't go with him to his family functions. What's up with that? I think he just wants to keep up appereances. It's hard for me to say no because I care for his family deeply. I love them. I DO say no when I want to say yes bc I feel like I have control over that part. I wonder if it would be ok to see his family on outings without him..? I don't want him thinking that I still consider them a huge part of my life in the hopes that we will reconcile. I already know that they will greet me with open arms if that were to happen. Well...I shouldn't assume that but it's how I 'feel' about it. They may treat me like a one-eyed monster when it's all said and done. Lol
Question; How do you feel about someone getting half of the spouse's 401K in a divorce settlement? We depleted mine years ago for whatever reason but he has some from his recent job. He will HATE me if I go after that and I'm sure he will make my life a living he!! If I do ask for it. I saw Bttrfly give her H half her 401k (with grace) but I know it bothered her bc he always said that he thought it was stupid to do the 401k. I don't remember his reasoning behind that thought but he sure didn't hesitate in asking for it. Everyone I talk to says it's a crappy thing to do. Not on here, but people I've asked in person. What say you on this subject?
Then if you aren't a one liner type of person, then think about doing something that day and being honest w/him and say, "H, I have made plans to do something else that day" and I would make sure you had something planned. You are the only one that controls your life, not your h. Put your big girl panties on and start saying no once in a while. There's no harm in turning down doing things w/him. After all, you have your own life to live just as he is.
As for his family functions, it sounds like he wants to keep up appearances that things are okay between you. If you go to the functions, the family assumes that you are okay with the separation and if you are there, they won't have the opportunity to ask him too many questions about where you are and how you are doing. It's all about appearances.
If he has a 401k, I believe you are entitled to half of it, just as you are entitled to half of his retirement and don't forget...if you've been married 10 years or more, when you become of age, you are entitled to some social security $$$ if he's paid into social security instead of a regular retirement system. Of course, you have to remember, you have to be still single and not remarried to get that SS money.
I would speak to a lawyer about the 401k and you know what, if you end up getting a divorce, I wouldn't care one bit if he got angry about having to either give you a lump sum payment of your share of the 401k, pays you in increments or waits until he needs to take the money out.
Trust me, if the shoe was on the other foot, he would go after anything and everything he could in the way of cash settlement. You have to look out for yourself in this matter and to heck w/his attitude. Speak to a lawyer about this as soon as possible. Know your rights and what you are entitled to and do not discuss this stuff w/others because you do not know who has lips that flap and will pass the info on to him.
Hi Job,
I'll try to do what you say and say "no" to him. He certainly doesn't deserve any of my company. He does this thing where if I don't make myself available, I'm the B**tch that he left, so good for him that I'm showing my true colors. It's so annoying to be seen this way when I've been more than accomadating. I will say "no" from now on.
I knew that about keeping up appearances and that makes me angry. I knew it but wanted to go anyway because I missed his family. Well, I don't miss them that much anymore. They know what's up and won't ask him questions but I think he's afraid it will make him look bad bc he knows he's thrown me away. That wouldn't look good to his family and he knows it.
He's so arrogant. It's all about him and how he looks. This is why he says that if I tell his mom the things he's done or show her the awful emails he's sent, he will cut me off money wise. I don't really care about the money anymore and really want to tell her everything. I believe she would tell him to straighten up for the sake of the family's reputation. Should I tell her anything at all? Maybe tell her about the 28 yr old tart so his cover is blown? Wouldn't that take some control away from him?
I will take half of the 401k if it's something I'm entitled to. I still don't think it's really fair but you're right, he would do that to me in a heartbeat.
Nee, obviously your choice but I don't think I would do the breakfasts. He is lying about his involvement with this woman. Until that is over he is not sincere in his efforts with you. Try going silent with him and see what happens. I can tell you it has done wonders for me in terms of not having the negativity and spew around me.
Well, I don't think I have to worry about an invitation to breakfast now. I was very short with him earlier. He does this thing where he doesn't give specific times as to when he'll pick up our dog for a visit. It's always "I'll be there around...or before lunch." It's never specific. I told him that I needed a specific time. His response "I told you. What's your problem?" I didn't respond and he finally responded with a little before lunch or a little after lunch. I accepted that answer. He knows when I ask about specific times as to when he'll be around is because I don't want to be around him. There are times that I don't want to run into him for any reason. I later apologized for being short with him. Why did I apologize??? What's wrong with me???
It's official. I'm NOT texting him for any reason. Not over the dog, money, insurance..nothing! I usually block him, but haven't lately because I thought he may want to see our dog since things at work have been slow. He's not made any real efforts to do so. I think I will block him after he text me to say when he's dropped off the dog. I won't have to unblock him till maybe next Sat. To see if he reaches out to see the dog. He flipped out big time when I blocked him several months back. I also locked the storm door during that time bc he doesn't have a key to that door and I didn't want him to come and go at his leisure when I'm home. He lost his mind. He was screaming and cussing outside my window, and i heard him call his mom wanting to know if she had a key to the storm door. I called him after he left and told him that I locked the storm door for safety purposes and he said "Well, that's ok. Safety purposes is a good reason." He was saying that in a way to where I understood that was the only reason that was acceptable for me to lock that door. He calmed down once he heard my voice. He seemed almost desperate to see me, hear my voice or have some sort of interaction with me after a week of blocking him. His voice shakes all the time when I finally answer his calls. (I rarely do answer his calls) I can tell he's a nervous wreck when we're talking. Oh, I also told him that I was in the shower and didn't know he was outside until he was leaving. I've had to lie so many times in order to keep the peace. I think his past behavior has me scared enough to try to be cordial with him most of the time. I do give him a piece of my mind on occasion, but, I quickly apologize. It's just easier that way. Still, I'm going to block him this week regardless. It will be a good week.
Day 1 of NC with my H.
I pray in desperation to find the strength I need to control my heartache that leads to anger and resentment. It's destroying my bubbly nature. I have some amazing friends in my life that will support me on this.
I had a breakdown of sorts yesterday. I let my H have it. I told him that I hated him for what he's done to me. All those horrible names and OW got to me in a way to where I sent her copies of some of H text to me to make me believe he wasn't with her anymore. (STUPID) I also sent her text from H saying that he loved me and wanting to know how he could make things better between us. (Again, STUPID) I'm sure they will probably fight and then have makeup sex. Oh boy!
I realize that my H only sends me texts of hope to give me a little hope just to shoot me down later. It's a terrible feeling to feel so unloved by this man I've been married to for 17 years. I have to figure out a way for me not to miss him while I have him blocked. This will be hard.
I don't want to hate my H. I've always been able to stay friends with ex-boyfriends but this relationship is much harder to do that. I thought this man loved me unconditionally. He sure had me fooled. I hate feeling like I've been so blind for so many years. I'm not even sure I haven't tried to reconcile with him because of that vanity.
I have to STOP this nonsense and get control of Nee. I am unwell right now. Giving him this much power is not who I am. I am stronger than this. I WILL be stronger!
Sit and be silent.
You are going to get some big 2x4 here.
How are you possibly NC when you are in constant contact with him? Of course he is texting you to keep you on the line in case. Plus it is probably fun for him to watch you spin so badly. You are playing into his story he can tell everyone about what a nut job you are. Stop giving him ammunition. Assume that any text you send him is going to be shared with OW and possibly others.
You have got to start focusing on YOU. What have you been doing to move YOURSELF forward. Because you are not doing these things you are spending your time obsessing over him and making very bad decisions in the process.
Please, get out of the house and do something. Call on those friends and make it a point not to talk about him.
Own it; You are correct. I have had too much time on my hands and need to get out more. I'm doing better.
I have decided to move out and get on with my life. I have no control of my life where I am now. He had been coming over at all hours drunk and demanding sex. I didn't want to call the law on him, so I didn't, but I also didn't have sex with him. One night after I didn't have sex with him, he rubbed feces on the front door. I'm hoping it was dog feces but who knows..? I think he was still drunk the next morning when he did it.
My H is not well. I don't think he will live much longer the way he is going with his careless ways. The drinking and driving is mostly my fear. I finally sent his mom an email yesterday explaining his reckless behavior in the hopes that she would beg him to stop drinking so much. Well, that didn't go over well. She now hates me and he has convinced her that I was lying. But, it has got him scared to where he thinks that I will start showing proof of his bizarre antics. I also have proof of his cruelty and OW. I don't think he'll stop his antics but maybe he'll leave me alone now. I told him if he didn't stay away from me until I moved out that I would blow his cover and start showing proof of everything he's done. Maybe it will work..maybe it won't. At least he knows that I'm not afraid of him anymore by my telling his mom some of what he's done. You don't even have to say it, Own it; I will not contact her again.
I have had him blocked and told him to email me if he wants to see the dog. He probably won't email me because I don't think he cares about our dog anymore, as he rarely sees him at all. I will have to text him next week to tell him that my car payment is due bc he won't put money in the joint acct until I tell him what's due. Then I will block him again and wait for an email about the dog. Blocking him makes it so much easier on me. I don't have to really think about him at all. That's why I want to move out so badly. Out of sight...out of mind. Well, most of the time.
I have very good people in my life who love me and will help me in any way they can. One friend called yesterday with a job proposal that I'm following up with tomorrow. It's just some light bookkeeping but it's something. It will hopefully get me out from under his thumb and i can start paying my own bills. I sure hope I get this job. If I'm working and packing up my stuff, it will keep my mind busy and hopefully too exhausted to fret about him.
I don't think I'm in love with my H anymore. I still love him on some level and I do care about his wellbeing. It's just not the same anymore. My heart is too heavy from his abuse to have the kind of love I would need to move past this. I know I will be ok.
Thank you for checking in with me, Own it. You're a gem.
Nee,
I'm sorry you have had to deal with this behavior. This is fortunately not something I have had to deal with. Mine is wound too tightly to do these types of things.
What seems clear is that you are not happy in this relationship. Also, I question whether someone who would do these juvenile and criminal actions is someone you really need in your life. I think anything you can do to put the focus on you and move forward for yourself is a good thing.
Nothing has to be permanent if you don't want it to be. Maybe some day in the future you guys will meet again with different results. Maybe not. But either way the investment you make in yourself will always pay dividends to you.
I'll be hoping for the job to come through and a new place to live, if that is what you want. Think about the things that will make you happy and start doing some of them. I have confidence in you that you can do this!
Thank you, Own it!
I'm not sure why my previous message posted again but I'm not sure about a lot things, so par for the course. (Insert humor)
I am most definitely going to move on with my life. I don't have a choice, as I am in survival mode now. I kind of like being in survival mode because I get things done. Maybe it's more adrenaiine and I will keep that at bay because I know what that can lead to.
I'm feeling better about things this morning. The reason is that I keep a record of his text so if anything happens, I have it documented. I noticed a text from him that I hadn't seen that said I had screwed things up for him and OW and his mom. Any other time I would have said something like "Do you realize that you just told your wife that she screwed things up with you and your girlfriend?", but I didn't. This is a huge step for me. I'm not the kind of person who would stand for that but I know what I'm dealing with, so it's making t easier for me to walk away from that kind of statement from him. Now that I've gotten through that without reacting so quickly, the moment of sadness and frustration has passed. I had all these scenarios in my head of sending a screen shot to his mom for her to understand what's going on with him. But, I didn't do it. This is something that has to come natural from him in order for her to see it. I'm not the one who can prove anything to her. My H is the only one who can show his true colors in all this mess.
Anyway, I'm proud of myself and today is a new day. I must get motivated on getting my stuff packed and finding a place to live that's affordable. No one is going to kick me out if I don't find something right away, so I'm hopeful. I will NOT be treated like this any longer!!!
Thank you again, Own it. Thank you for your confidence in me. I needed it!!!
I sincerely hope things are going well for you and you're staying focused on what you have to do for yourself, too. No one should have to settle for less than they deserve. I don't care what mistakes you have made in the past, you don't have to be made to feel like you are "less than" in any form. I can tell that you have a good heart and that's all that matters. Your love for self and your children will see you through this. I just know it!!
Xx, Nee
Nee, I deleted your duplicate posting.
Nee, sending positive thoughts your way. I'm heading to NY for my daughter's recital. Unfortunately he will be there. Hoping he ignores me again and that the time passes quickly.
Make sure to let us know how your progress is going. Good job on not responding to the text. The more you do it (or don't in this case) the easier it becomes. The first couple of times I ignored him I felt a panic. Now it is easy.
Nee, just finished reading your last couple of posts. Wow, you do have a lot to put up with! Your H really does sound like he is in full replay! The most important thing for you is to keep yourself safe. The thing with OW won't last anyway even without your help. He is broken right now and so must she be so that relationship is doomed from the start. You just need to leave him to do what he has to do. He is like a storm, they have to blow out at sometime.
I think you sound like a very strong person with the confidence to know that you will be alright without him. Usually we tell the LBS not to move out but you are in a unique situation and actually IMO I think it will be better for your sanity.
Take care Nee..
Hey Own it!
Thank you for your positive thoughts. You're sweet to think of me. I'm hanging in there. I packed 8 boxes today. My back is out now but doing some stretches to get ready for tomorrow!
I hope everything goes well at your daughter's dance recital! I know you must be somewhat nervous but it'll be ok. Don't let your H get you down. If you want him to ignore you, I hope he does. If you want pleasentries, I wish that for you, too. Chin up! Your daughter will be so happy to have you there!!!
Hi Coly23,
Thank you for stopping by! I do have a full on replay on my hands. My H is not well. I don't think he has been for a while before BD. He recently said that he had played a part in our hell of a marriage for 2 years before he left. My guess is that he was in the denial and the anger stage for longer than I had suspected. I knew he was having problems but as you know, they don't speak of them.
I don't think I really care much about the OW that much anymore. She's probably a nice enough girl but who knows..? This is all on him. She's 28 years old and that's going to be a tough one for him when he settles down in his skin. She's very active and he's NOT when he's himself. It doesn't matter if they work out, or not. He'll find another if they don't because he's obsessed with sex right now. He wears a penis ring ALL the time. I read that it can cause nerve damage if you leave it on for more than 30 minutes so he may be in trouble soon. My therapist said that she thinks he wants to have an erection all the time because he freaked out when he couldn't have one. Sounds about right. Oh well...I can't be worried about that, either.
I am finally getting stronger. I've been a weakling for far too long. He said he's filing for a divorce this coming week. Honestly, I hope he does. I will be sad, but I believe it will be a relief. Who knows at this point. All I'm doing is concentrating on getting all packed up and out of here. I don't know if I could ever reconcile with him after all this damage he's caused. I know he's not doing well and I'm suppose to be sympathetic to his plight but I ain't feeling real sympathetic these days. It's ALL about me!!!!
I hope you're doing well with your sitch, Coly23. This isn't an easy road by any stretch of the imagination. Stay strong and feel free do discuss your sitch with me if you'd like to. Take care! :0)
Nee, I don't think there is anything that asks you to be sympathetic to his plight, particularly in view of some of the crass things he has done to you. You are truly what matters. What you think of yourself far surpasses anything he could ever think of you. I know you will do great. I see your intelligence and your grit in your posts. Those qualities will serve you well.
Dear Sweet Own it,
You always seem to say what I need to hear. You complemting my intelligence is kind of you to say. I rarely feel intelligent. You get called ignorant enough, you tend to believe it. I used to study the dictionary for hours to reach his level of intelligence, as he is basically a genius. His IQ is around 144 so he really is literally a genius. I also know that's prat of his problem, too. He has confided in me several times since BD when he's in severe depressed mode and he hates himself for not meeting his potential. He is a "lowly" truck driver. (His words, not mine). I've always told him that he could do anything he wanted to in life but his desires were lacking in that area. I say desires because I believe there's a difference between desires and wants. Ya know, a desire is more appealing than a want. I realize that's part of the MLC process but it sure isn't easy making someone see their worth. He is obviously projecting his self hatred on me. So be it.
Tonight I'm playing those movies in my head again. I usually do this time of night. This is usually my time to weaken. Not now though. I've kept him blocked and will continue to do so. I have to move forward without any interruptions right now. Still, I should could go without those stupid movies.
It's nearly 4am and I need to rest so I can try to go to church in the morning. I need God right now. I feel like I have lost my faith and I can't stand that feeling. It's funny how I pray so desperately when I need to but fall short in his grace. I have some family members who have tried to sway me from religion all together. It almost worked. I guess that's part of the test we learn about as Christians.
Ok. I will rest now and I will go to church in at 11am. I will.
Xx, Nee
Hello Nee, I'm hoping you found some peace yesterday. Don't know if you knew this, but very intelligent people often have a hard time fitting into the social models required for success in the work place and often work in menial jobs. He is not alone. My H is a mensa member, not certain of his IQ but his EQ is very low.
Someone reminded me recently that we are the director of those movies. We decide whether they play or not. We decide which movie plays. If you don't like the movie that is cued up, put a different one on (or watch youtube videos of kittens, puppies, sloths, etc.).
I think you are capable of doing a lot more than you think you are. As humans we tend to rise or fall to other's expections of us. I remember hearing about an experiment where a brand new teacher was given the lowest performing kids, but was told they were the highest. Guess what happened to those kids. They outperformed expectation. You are smart and capable and kind. You can rise about the swamp of his hate and antipathy. I believe in you.
[quote=Nee]Ok, I think I understand what you're saying, Bttrfly. My marriage to H is dead and gone. I shouldn't expect the connection we once had. He's actually said that in frustration.."It's never going to be like it use to be.'" He said that in the middle of a R talk and he was upset that it was a realistic statement that he was making. I didn't believe it at the time. I thought if he would just come out of the tunnel at some point, he would want to reconnect and become one with me again. I HAVE seen that happen on here. I suppose it could have been because the LBS did detach thoroughly
as far as I know, ^^ it has ONLY happened when the LBSer detached and imo, you can only Detach when you GAL.
the key here is that the LBSer moved forward without attaching themselves to the results.
You are still going from one end to the other, emotionally and in terms of your plans, and it's almost all reactive. Tactical, not actual change within. You've identified a lot of things you want to work on in yourself. I think that's great b/c without a personal growth plan, there's no ability to change and without change, there's not likely to be a reconciliation of any sorts. So how is that personal work going?
Are you being treated for the anxiety and bi-polar you mentioned?
What did you find most helpful in the DB books? Can you hone in on that?
Also, imo, the terms "MLC" or "WAH" are not things to waste time on b/c your course of action is the same. I wasted a year of my life wondering about my h and it's a year I'll never get back, and it held me back later on...
Seriously, your course of action is the same regardless of what you think your h is doing or thinking or feeling.
Nee, I think you've admitted that you two have a toxic dynamic.
So unless he believes it can change, (which it will, if you change b/c you are all you control) then there's not a lot to work with.
You can change this. ^^ Only you can change this.
Hello Nee, I'm hoping you found some peace yesterday. Don't know if you knew this, but very intelligent people often have a hard time fitting into the social models required for success in the work place and often work in menial jobs. He is not alone. My H is a mensa member, not certain of his IQ but his EQ is very low.
Someone reminded me recently that we are the director of those movies. We decide whether they play or not. We decide which movie plays. If you don't like the movie that is cued up, put a different one on (or watch youtube videos of kittens, puppies, sloths, etc.).
And we can always yell "CUT!" God knows the mental movies are not fun. Hence my blocking FB and any info about an OW - plus, I filed for D before I knew of OW.
Nee, the reality is that I knew my h did not have my back when I truly needed him and my financial security was at risk too, so I filed.
Finding about OW was a huge gut punch and drag, obviously. But I admit that the marriage was fractured before she came along. Again, I filed for D before I knew of OW
I think that is what your h meant when he asked you if you really believed OW was the reason for you guys splitting. You have been bravely honest about the other issues you two have, so she's just a bandaid I'd spend NO time on if possible.
Anyhow, I don't let myself put a whole lot of energy there. Besides, when I step back from the emotions of it all -
I can honestly say that anyone who enters a R with someone else right after (or during) a long m, is behaving reactively and it's not healthy.
Going public about it is simply in poor taste, and shows a remarkable lack of self awareness AND OR how it looks to others.
Our kids were embarrassed and hurt (for me, partly) and of course I was deeply hurt and at first, humiliated. But enough people told me the truth, which is that his posts are about HIM, and what he's trying to prove and deal with. Who does that when they are simply, truly content? In my head I know they are right.
My heart is catching up pretty fast.
Knowing this^^^ does help to reduce the impact.
I think you are capable of doing a lot more than you think you are. As humans we tend to rise or fall to other's expections of us. I remember hearing about an experiment where a brand new teacher was given the lowest performing kids, but was told they were the highest. Guess what happened to those kids. They outperformed expectation. You are smart and capable and kind. You can rise about the swamp of his hate and antipathy. I believe in you.
I think you've been in a m wherein your self confidence has eroded a lot, and I"m not sure what your childhood was like either or how you have treated yourself.
Looking to others for our affirmation and self esteem is a sure road to disaster, in the long run.
When you mentioned that the "two become one" and that you only wanted to be around your h and whenever he was home, you sort of revolved around him, is a lot of pressure to put on one man, let alone a damaged one.
He's got a fragile ego and was in no position to boost yours.
We all have to stop negative tapes in our heads AND THEN take a 2nd step.
We have to replace those negative tapes with positive ones and we have to make those ourselves.
It's Not about getting another man (or booze or drugs or tons of sex) to put positive tapes in our heads. Just us.
...I blended my dreams into h's so much that they were somehow, "our dreams" and his never really took in mine. The exciting & terrifying part now is to decide what my dreams are, and to make them mine.
Imagine that our lives are novels. How do you want your next chapter to go?
We have to be the authors of our own lives.
HI Ownit and 25,
Ownit, I'm doing better with those awful movies in my head. I'm pretty much blocking them out all together. I know it won't matter if I'm the only one in this marriage who is viewing them. I'm just moving forward as if I'm writing my own playwright that may turn into a film later.
I'm feverishly looking for a place to live right now. Somewhere cheap. I figure I don't have to live there forever so the looks of it doesn't have to be the way I had envisioned it. I'm also starting those nicotine patches to hopefully stop smoking. I quit for a year before he lett and I'm ready to be proud of myself again. Smoking is no bueno.
I'm looking to make money anywhere I can. Cleaning houses is going to be my go to for now. My mind isn't ready to be in a workplace setting yet. That'll come in time when I've found myself again and when I'm ready to see that cleaning houses isn't really what I'm limited to. Thank you for believing in me, Own it. It means a lot. I believe in you, too!!!!
25, I'm doing much better on detaching from my H. I did mess up yesterday by texting him to ask if he was going to get our dog so he could run and play at his moms farm. He did that every weekend before he left so our dogs would be able to explore more than our little area we live in. Our dog needs that as it is a Jack Russell and needs LOTS of exercise. Still, I know I shouldn't have reached out to him. I just should have taken our dog to a park or something to let him run free. Oh well, I guess I'll start over today with NC.
I did actually get an apology from my H yesterday, albeit it was prompted and followed with a but you did... The apology was for something he said recently in a heated text exchange about the OW. I won't go into what it was he said but it was very hurtful and painful. I told him last night that I couldn't see how he didn't understand that his lack of empathy on that sitch was disturbing. His reply "I'm not lacking empathy." Lol..of course that's what he was going to say! Anyway, I said "do you realize that I am still your wife? Like it or not, I will be respected as such. What's really disturbing is the fact that you don't realize your lack of empathy." He threw it back to me, of course. I admitted that I was provacative prior to his cruel statement but his reply was uncalled for. He FINALLY said "I'm sorry I said that but you will never admit that what you did was wrong and say your sorry." I said, "I'm sorry what i said was inappropriate." The truth is, I don't usually see that I'm provacative until after the fact. I guess i feel justified in my actions because I'm so hurt. He even said that.." I know you're hurt so I understand that's where your anger comes from." Well good for him in realizing that he hurt me all this time without saying I'm sorry. That's the lack of empathy that I was really talking about when I mentioned it in the first place. It wasn't really to get him to apologize for what he said in that text. It's nice that he did but I know it wasn't heartfelt.
25, My childhood doesn't help with this sitch at all. I was molested by a few family members and abandoned by my mother at age 9. My father had to get custody of me and my sister and he wasn't any better than my mom. There was a LOT of belittling on his part and very little love shown by him. My step-mom resented me and my sister because we were a product of my dad's first marriage. She hated my real mother. My mother is the devil himself. She was mentally and physically abusive to me and my sister. The mental and emotional abuse was the worst. I hate her for what she did to me and continues to do to me. I hate a lot of things lately. I never show anyone my dispare but it's there. I've always been bubbly and smiling around others. I've relied on that part of my personality throughout my life.
I like that about me and I think other's appreciate it too.
Anyway, I read recently that women who are sexually molested by men do not do well when rejected by men. Boy is that the case with me. I didn't realize it until I read about it. I did know that I didn't take rejection well but I didn't know why. I just figured that no one took it well. I see now that other women aren't nearly as affected as I am when rejected by men.
I don't like having the added pressure on me right now of feeling rejected and abandoned. It's overwhelming. There's one good thing that is coming about from that, and that is because it's been so overwhelming, I'm able to start detaching more. It still hurts sometimes when I think about how my H knows about my horrible childhood but is willing to add his cruelty on top of it. He's always been able to make me laugh about my childhood instead of dwelling on it. He was good that way. He could even make me find a smile when dealing with being molested by saying "Did they at least give you any candy beforehand?" I like his sick sense of humor. My past affords it.
I miss my H so much sometimes. The old H that could make me laugh. Still, I obviously depended on him too much for my peace of mind and security. This realization has made me start to see that I HAVE to detach.
I know that I'm not at peace and desperately want to be at peace. My emotions run high due to me being bipolar and my panic attacks. I know I need to be in therapy and need my meds to be reevaluated. I'm making the appointment today and will show up this time. I owe it to myself and the people who do care about my state of mind and future.
Thank you for your input, 25. I'm starting to write my own book in my head that allows me to be independent. I sure hope it works!!!
HI Ownit and 25,
-
I'm feverishly looking for a place to live right now. Somewhere cheap. I figure I don't have to live there forever so the looks of it doesn't have to be the way I had envisioned it. I'm also starting those nicotine patches to hopefully stop smoking. I quit for a year before he lett and I'm ready to be proud of myself again. Smoking is no bueno.
GOOD GOOD STUFF^^^. Yeah, I chose to rent a condo, which I haven't lived in for 30 years, but it's like you said, not forever. Plus, I needed to be near the subway in case I can't drive again (seizures) so that's what I'm doing. Kind of love being on my own for the first time in my life.
LOVE that you are quitting smoking!! Adding years to your life and Yeah, you 'll have more money for sure!
You said you are "ready to be proud of myself again"...ouch. So my first reaction was "geez, Nee has to get more self esteem obviously, and her h is NOT ever going to do that for her"
but in a way, I relate.
My he sure did keep a lot of secrets and resentments. And was critical in subtle and not so subtle ways. My ego and self esteem have taken big hits for awhile, so I get it. It's one reason I have not yet dated.
I remind myself that my h would not change (not for me or our children). He didn't change even when he admitted he needed to. And I didn't set or keep boundaries with him when he backslid. (That's on me).
So this divorce really will be a good thing for me IN TIME...
It's for sure NOT easy. Big changes for us. Your dynamic sounds as if it was mostly unstable and had lots of drama. Now you say you want inner peace and I get that.
IF you worry that your h is "now" going to change for HER, I'd say 2 things'
1) that's not likely to be true. Period. IF he seems that way, then it won't last, b/c he's not healthy or honest. I mean, he's just not.
Why would that change? Is he in therapy now? Changing his meds? On any? Going to meetings or what? See what I mean?
2) IF IF IF a miracle happens, and suddenly he's everything he never has been before, that is not the same as what he'd do with the dynamic you two had. So you'd still be best off working on yourself in your new life.
Don't even ponder "what if?" Right now. When I think of my h as gone forever, at first it hurts b/c of course it's sad as heck. I've been with him since I was 19, and married at 21.
But it also, eventually, morphs into feeling liberated like "oh, I don't have to think about what HE will think of this choice I want to make..."
I'd block his fb and anything else you can. No point in retaining contact. Get your dogs a better place or take them with you.
And don't forget, HIS "happy happy land" is not relevant to your peace of mind. (it's also not true or real, but that's not the point). If he gets a promotion at work, you don't get fired from yours. There's no contest.
You get to live with peace now. Make sense?
I'm looking to make money anywhere I can. Cleaning houses is going to be my go to for now. My mind isn't ready to be in a workplace setting yet. That'll come in time when I've found myself again and when I'm ready to see that cleaning houses isn't really what I'm limited to. Thank you for believing in me, Own it. It means a lot. I believe in you, too!!!!
hey, do what you need to do! If you want to take a class or get a hobby, just know that most of the GAL I did, were free or cheap. So GAL does not have to cost a fortune. And it is so so helpful to our Pos Mental Attitude.
25, I'm doing much better on detaching from my H. -- Still, I know I shouldn't have reached out to him. I just should have taken our dog to a park or something to let him run free. Oh well, I guess I'll start over today with NC.
Well, start over on this by getting a place for the dogs to run (I have a big dog who needs running places too).
The fewer reasons you have for contact, the easier this gets. Trust me.
I did actually get an apology from my H yesterday, albeit it was prompted and followed with a but you did...
Um, I no longer count those ^^ as "apologies". They are excuses for starting fights and engaging. It's a feigned apology for a shot across the bow.
The apology was for something he said recently in a heated text exchange about the OW. I won't go into what it was he said but it was very hurtful and painful.
Wow, he plays dirty. Goes for the jugular. Remind yourself of ^^this, when you "miss" him.
I told him last night that I couldn't see how he didn't understand that his lack of empathy on that sitch was disturbing. His reply "I'm not lacking empathy."
I could have written this^^ years ago. I still think it sometime. Like I can suddenly teach h something he clearly does not know. "Hey h, stop having secrets. And see other viewpoints or the connection between your behavior and the pain you cause others"...
Now I ask myself, why not tell a blind man to see? At this stage of their lives or whatever this is, (permanent change or their real self is revealed) they are not capable of empathy.
My h told our youngest a lot of destructive things. Pointless but probably not "evil" so much as thoughtless.
Maybe I'll date or remarry someone who can help me model a healthier m...or just be happier without him so she can see that leaving an unhealthy r, is a healthy step.
Sounds obvious unless you are in it. It can happen insidiously and slowly, so you are like a frog in the pot and not notice you are getting cooked.
Now you know.
Lol..of course that's what he was going to say! Anyway, I said "do you realize that I am still your wife? Like it or not, I will be respected as such. What's really disturbing is the fact that you don't realize your lack of empathy." He threw it back to me, of course. I admitted that I was provacative prior to his cruel statement but his reply was uncalled for. He FINALLY said "I'm sorry I said that but you will never admit that what you did was wrong and say your sorry." I said, "I'm sorry what i said was inappropriate." The truth is, I don't usually see that I'm provacative until after the fact. I guess i feel justified in my actions because I'm so hurt. He even said that.." I know you're hurt so I understand that's where your anger comes from." Well good for him in realizing that he hurt me all this time without saying I'm sorry.
this^^ is getting both of you nowhere. Lots of score keeping and It's same old, same old. Neither of you really takes in what the other says in a way that you can use it for change, and both have ammo in the rifle waiting to fire.
When you get some peace in your life, I think you will see this more clearly.
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25, My childhood doesn't help with this sitch at all. I was molested by a few family members and abandoned by my mother at age 9. My father had to get custody of me and my sister and he wasn't any better than my mom. There was a LOT of belittling on his part and very little love shown by him. My step-mom resented me and my sister because we were a product of my dad's first marriage. She hated my real mother.
My mother is the devil himself. She was mentally and physically abusive to me and my sister. The mental and emotional abuse was the worst. I hate her for what she did to me and continues to do to me. I hate a lot of things lately. I never show anyone my dispare but it's there.
Nee, of course you have a lot to process to live a life without triggers and baggage. I hope you can attend a workshop or retreat or get good therapy for this^^^.
It's no wonder you need more tools for conflict resolution. And abandonment issues, and self esteem troubles. Seriously, I sure would.
I've always been bubbly and smiling around others. I've relied on that part of my personality throughout my life.
I like that about me and I think other's appreciate it too.
For sure, People like people who are kind, interested in others and who like themselves. Authentic people. You'll do well.
Anyway, I read recently that women who are sexually molested by men do not do well when rejected by men. Boy is that the case with me. I didn't realize it until I read about it. I did know that I didn't take rejection well but I didn't know why. I just figured that no one took it well. I see now that other women aren't nearly as affected as I am when rejected by men.
I don't like having the added pressure on me right now of feeling rejected and abandoned. It's overwhelming. There's one good thing that is coming about from that, and that is because it's been so overwhelming, I'm able to start detaching more.
I understand this^^. Knowing that h posted on fb about his "new honey meeting his family" - while we are still married after a 35 year marriage, could have killed my heart.
But somehow, it forced me to accept my son's words of advice, "good riddance to lunacy" b/c truly, who would post that? So fast??
We have children and friends and family who all saw that. From what I can tell, and heard, no one who knows us both, said a word of support to him. His new fans, who knows?
Who knows what he tells his new friends? I have no control over that. I cannot waste an ounce of energy on that. Like you said, it would be overwhelming. Forced detachment is better than none.
Plus when I really do step back and imagine someone else posting like that, after a long marriage, it would strike me as way too fast. Plus at the age of 60, honestly I might think they were a little pathetic. At least weird. That helps to detach too.
Your h is already with an OW and talking about her, to you. I mean, wtf? Not normal and not healthy on his end. Also very typical of this pattern.
It still hurts sometimes when I think about how my H knows about my horrible childhood but is willing to add his cruelty on top of it. He's always been able to make me laugh about my childhood instead of dwelling on it. He was good that way. He could even make me find a smile when dealing with being molested by saying "Did they at least give you any candy beforehand?" I like his sick sense of humor. My past affords it.
Humor is a coping mechanism for pain and it's not a bad one! Others have it too, and sometimes you might find someone that will have humor AND OR some affirming traits for you.
When you love yourself enough, it'll come. And I'm with you on that. I get asked out and somehow don't feel ready (i'm not ready for a "real" relationship but having coffee or a movie would be nice soon).
I wonder at times if the reason I'm not more ready is my lowered self esteem
OR is it me being healthy enough to know I'm not ready? I just don't want to date to prove something. Seems reactive.
I miss my H so much sometimes. The old H that could make me laugh. Still, I obviously depended on him too much for my peace of mind and security. This realization has made me start to see that I HAVE to detach.
Yes^^^
I know that I'm not at peace and desperately want to be at peace. My emotions run high due to me being bipolar and my panic attacks.
some or a lot of this^^^ will be helped by your own mental work. I believe where the head goes, the heart will follow...if we let it.
I'm working on it myself. But the desire for inner peace is great inside me. I'm very much wanting that.
I found a free app for my phone called "insight timer" and it's a set of soothing meditations that help me sleep. I've been pleasantly surprised that it helped so much.
Some of them are positive affirmations. (Not all are for sleep). They really do help calm me and give me peace. Give it a try.
I know I need to be in therapy and need my meds to be reevaluated. I'm making the appointment today and will show up this time. I owe it to myself and the people who do care about my state of mind and future.
yes you do. This isn't a dress rehearsal, it's our only life. Let's use our time well!
Thank you for your input, 25. I'm starting to write my own book in my head that allows me to be independent. I sure hope it works!!!
YOU create an independent life and it will work. None of this "allows" you stuff.
You are in charge of your life. Ready to take charge? I think so!
Hi 25,
I want to start by apologizing for my awful behavior this past week. There's no excuse for it so I won't offer any up. I hope you will be able to see passed my ill manners and continue to give me your insight. I completely understand if you don't feel you're able to do that right now.
So, I appreciate you giving me your advice and encouragement. I obviously need to gather myself and take inventory of my own actions instead of focusing on what my H is doing. I honestly thought I was getting better at being a better person but I was clearly wrong.
I don't like the person I'm starting to become. I liked some parts of the person I was before my H left. Other parts, not so much. I wish I could take back so many things but I know that's impossible. I'm going to look into some of those workshops you mentioned to try and sort some of this stuff out that's gotten me here.
I saw this thing called "Meet ups" where people of all ages meet for various common interest or for bitter ol' bags like me who have been abandoned by their spouse.
I do well in group settings, so I figure I should give this a try. We'll see how it goes.
This past week has been a wake up call for me. I'm only sorry that it was at someone else's expense. I can't take back the way I acted but I can sure as heck try to do better in the future. I hate myself when I let something bother me to where I react foolishly. It may not even be something necessarily about me for me to get offended sometimes. I think I've been bullied so much in my life by people I thought were my loved ones and I can't see passed it. This has to stop.
I want to be a better person, 25. I want others to see me as a compassionate and loving person. I know I have to be that person in order for others to see me this way. I'm going to do some serious soul searching for a while to become the person that I want to be.
I'm going to go now and try to enjoy a bday dinner with my best friend. I'm very lucky to have her in my life. She and I don't ever let the other one get away with anything and that's a good friend to have. Honesty rules.
Again, I'm so sorry for my poor behavior toward you and everyone else. I hope you all will forgive me.
Thank you, Nee
Nee, first happy birthday and I hope you have a lovely time at dinner. I think it is wonderful that you have made these apologies, but I'm not sure it was warranted, but then again I won't second guess your feelings, thoughts and what you think needs to be done about them.
I am so happy that you are going to focus on you and what you need to do for you. I think that is going to make a big change in how you feel about everything.
Again, have a wonderful birthday and know that your friends here are wishing you well!!
Nee - Happy Birthday! Hope you had a wonderful night and some much deserved laughs.
I want to echo what Irish said to you elsewhere. When we arrive here we are all part of the walking wounded. It takes time for us to get bearings. We've all been there.
This is a kind and supportive group. Post often because we promise, you will grow stronger if you put the time into this process.
Cheering you on...
Happy birthday Nee.
I echo what Ha said about keeping the focus on yourself and what you need to do for yourself. That starts with learning where you begin and end with regard to yourself, partners, family, friends, pretty much everyone.
Start there and the rest will fall into place and you will feel much more comfortable and sure of yourself. Enjoy your evening out with your friend.
Y'all are very sweet to wish me a happy bday but mine was back in Jan.
The dinner was to celebrate my best friend finally catching up with me in age. We did have a great time as we always do. We laughed till we were crying. She has been one of my closest friends for over 30 years. I'm very lucky that I've had quite a few friends that I've kept close for over 30 years. I have a lot to be thankful for and I will continue to be grateful for the folks in my life who genuinely love me.
Thank you for your kind and inspiring words, y'all!
Xx, Nee
Hi Ownit,
I wanted to PM you but it says it's disabled. Maybe I don't know what I'm doing re: that but I would like to know how. Maybe I got axed from it..? Anyway, I figured you may be worried about me, but I'm ok. Really, I am.
I'm going to respectively leave this site all together. If you or anyone else could tell me how to PM, I would like to give you my email address so we could correspond that way if you thought that would be ok. I'm not in a good place here on DB'ing and don't want to continue feeling this way. I sincerely don't want anyone to say that I shouldn't leave this site, either. It's what I prefer. I just wanted the opportunity to see if you would like to stay in touch via email rather than on here. I completely understand if you don't feel like you can do that. You don't owe me anything and i don't expect you to feel obligated to contact me outside of here.
Thank you for all the support and kindness you've shown me. You're an amazing woman with a lot to offer this world. I hope you believe in yourself and continue to flourish. You're going to do great things for yourself and children, Ownit. I just know it!
Xx, Nee
Nee, that makes me very sad but I certainly understand how you are feeling. Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, they do not let people PM (it is disabled for everyone) or give out email addresses. I have seen people say if you put DB and your user name on FB you can find oneanother. I can't do that because of my situation, but if you can then I will try to find you and message you.
I would love to continue to hear from you and about you as you begin this exciting and scary new phase of your life. Please don't disappear until we can find a way to communicate.
Nee,
I hope you'll Stick around!
And the private message thing has never worked in my years here. (I think it's possibly okay for sending moderators messages but not each other.)
I assume it's b/c the DB staff wants to maintain anonymity for people to feel totally free to disclose their "stuff" without feeling like they can be tracked down (by spouses maybe?)
I'm not positive though.
Anyhow, I feel like you are making progress here.
Also, consider this as an opportunity - you got feedback that made you uncomfortable. Which happens all the time in the real world and obviously has happened in our marriages.
I tried to reassure you that I thought it was a misunderstanding. You seemed to still feel uncomfortable, (which is your prerogative.)
But what if....what if you chose to lean into the discomfort, to face it, work thru it and live with it so you can still benefit from this site?
You know that you are safe here. I mean, it is anonymous.
Trust me, I've gotten some rough feedback from people and I had to just move along. We are all here for "Free" trying to help each other.
I can see that your cognitive work is getting more focussed and organized. I also believe that where the head goes, the heart will follow.
You are going in the right direction. Hang in there.
(( ))
Nee,
First, I want to apologize because I think I have accidently deleted a posting of yours this morning while working on something else. It was not intentional.
Second, the PM has not been activated on this particular public platform because the administrators want to keep things on the forum and with the coaches.
Third, I really do wish that you would reconsider and remain a poster. You are going thru a rough time and need the support of our fellow posters here. As for what transpired earlier in the week, it's in the past and today is a new day.
Please think long and hard this weekend and I do hope that you will reconsider sticking around. We all have had days were our sensitive side comes out. You are only human and like I pointed out, there are times the written word can be interpreted different ways by different people.
Again, I am so sorry that I deleted a posting. If it was your posting that I deleted, would you please recreate it? IF you need assistance from a moderator, please click the "notify" button. That is the only way that the moderators have to communicate w/another moderator.
Hey Ownit,
I'll try and stick it out on here for a while. I do wonder about the Facebook idea. Maybe Job can provide that info for me. I hope so!! I'd love to be able to communicate with you somehow once I decide to walk away from DB.
25, Thank you for your input. I agree on all of what you said.
Job, I have no idea what post was deleted but it's no big deal. It may be better that it was deleted. I may stay on here for a while longer but I'm curious how it us for folks to find each other on FB? Could you tell me how I can go about doing that for future reference. Thank you!
I can't share the info here on how to locate people directly. Many of the posters use their poster names and add DB behind their names. Many of the posters started this years ago, long before sharing info was banned from this site. As for myself, I only am friends w/a few of the posters because I was able to figure them out on FB and because they've been here a long time.
I would suggest that you experiment w/poster names on FB and see where that gets you. Please do not provide your personal info here or strong hints...they will be deleted. We've had a few that were bound and determined to share their info and they were put on moderation for quite some time.
Thank you, Job! I'm glad I hesitated before posting my info. I was close to doing it. I may give the FB thing a try when I have some time.
Thank you agiain!
Today I'm great and a mess. Excited and stressed. I'm starting a new job next Tuesday. It's been a long time since I've been in a workplace setting. All I can do is try. If I fail, so be it. WIpe myself, get up again.
I'm a little manic right now but trying to gather myself. THere's too much to do and not enough time.
Packing, finding a place to live, dealing with H inappropriate behavior, friends making massive mistakes in their marriage (they expect me to put them in check. Always), deciding on whether to pay for legal fees to start paper work on divorce, starting a new job, cleaning my house that's trashed right now, ironing...omg the ironing I have, checking emails, my hair and nails are a mess, I could go on and on.
My mania comes from me cutting back on my meds that stop that part of my brain from functioning. I know, it's not cool to do that, but I don't feel l like I have a choice, as there's too much to do with a dead brain. I'm managing my mood swings with meditation. It's helping me stay calm. I'm also ingnoring my H right now bc my bounderies aren't being honored. NC is nice.
I think I'm getting in a better place with myself. Lord, I hope so. I don't think I could get any worse than I was a few weeks ago. My sanity was slipping into nowhere land. The waves of emotions were way too intense. Staying busy helps.
I'm off to start on my chores. I won't get them all done today. It's absolutely gorgeous outside today! I WILL go out and enjoy it briefly.
I read a quote on here (and have heard it before) but that you eat an elephant one bite at a time. Just pick one thing to focus on and get it done. Try to avoid too many touches on the ball (picking things up and then putting it down again without accomplishing anything).
Maybe talk to your doctor about your medication and tapering off or decreasing the dosage to help you function better. I think it is generally not a good idea to go cold turkey on those things.
NC is nice. It is how I have survived since October. The weekly checkins or the touch and go periods are much less peaceful.
You can do this. Make a list. Take it item by item. Focus on forward and leave the past exactly where it is. You are going to get out in the world and have new experiences and meet new people. It is going to be great!
Congratulations on the new job!! You've got some good advice. Especially taking on one thing at a time, some of those things can wait, remember to take care of yourself and a PMA goes a long way.
Kyh, Thank you for the encouragement!! I'm trying that PMA a lot lately. Hoping it stays that way..
Ownit,
I'm slowing down a little as of yesterday afternoon. I had to. I'm going to focus on my ironing, doing laundy, getting my doc on meds, and the legal fees today only. I'm scared about starting the divorce process but it's the only way I know how to move forward in my personal life.
Only I know when it's time to get things moving along and I've made my mind up. I thought I may doing this to get his attention but that's not where I'm at anymore. I don't care if I go without health insurance, or not. I'll find a way to make this work. I always do.
Xx, Nee
Nee, making a decision can lift a burden. I'm glad you realize that you won't get his attention that way. I read somewhere that for some divorce is just a piece of paper (that is what it is for me) and for others it is the doorway to a new life. Perhaps you need that closure and to be the one making an active choice when you have been forced to just respond to him for so long.
Hi Nee, it's tough being the one to have to start the divorce process. Some people feel they need to do it in order to protect themselves financially. In my case, I would probably have reached that point - as I was financially vulneralble - but XH was in such a headlong rush to exit our marriage he initiated everything and carried it through to divorce.
The only thing I would say about the emotional aspect is - I don't think divorce is the key. To that. I think your processing and healing is the main way to work through things emotionally. For me, I found it freeing to become divorced even though I neither initiated or wanted it. I guess it's not great to be married to someone else's boyfriend, you know?
The main thing is to be at peace with your own decision xx
Hi Sotto,
Thank you for stopping by my thread. I get what you're saying about being emotional in starting the divorce process. I am emotional. An emotional wreck for the most part. I do really well some days and others, not so much.
I'm hoping once I get divorced that it will be freeing for me too and a way of healing. I feel that I can't fully heal until I am divorced from this man. The being married to someone else's boyfriend is what gets to me the most. I won't be that person anymore. It's not healthy to continuously see myself as a victim. It's consuming me.
Nee
Hey Ownit,
I hope you're doing well and having a good weekend!
I don't know why I'm so adamant about getting a divorce right now. I feel like I'm needing a new start asap. This is not where I want to be in my life at all. Being a victim is not healthy for me and I will only see myself this way while I'm married to my H.
H is being particularly calm and nice to me lately. I dare not speculate as to why. He's saying things like "be careful", "I desperately want to get close to you." And other things that really mean nothing to me more than a few minutes. These aren't things he's said since he's left. I don't think he's saying this because he's had some huge realization but I do wonder why his mood has changed.
I sincerely do not feel I'm in love with my H anymore. I have nothing but a sincere desire to have him out of my life forever. I know now that I will only make him unhappy and probably only be seen as provocative in his eyes. He's too defensive to see me any other way. I'm not even sure if I'm being provocative or not anymore. Nothing is planned like it used to be in my responses to him. I just say what I feel. That doesn't usually serve me well, but I don't care anymore.
It does strike me odd that's he's saying intimate stuff to me while I'm now so determined to get a divorce. I sure hope it's not his way of trying to reconcile. My physche can't handle another round of anything from him...good or bad.
How's things going your way? I hope it's been peaceful for you.
Xx, Nee
Nee,
When you pull back, he will pursue. If you take the bait when he does this, he'll then distance himself and you become the pursuer. Did you read the thread on the distance pursuer? You might want to take a peek at that.
Hi Job,
Thank you for responding to my post. I've been there before with him baiting me and not fallen for it in a while. I'm basically begging him to get a consultation with a lawyer so we can handle the divorce without having a mediator. I want to keep this cheap for me. I honestly don't want to be the one to tell him that I'm owed half of his 401K. He's going to hit the roof.
Is the fact that I continuously ask him when he's going to see a lawyer considered pursuing? I've read the thread before but I don't know if this falls into any of those categories..? I don't want to play that game anymore. I just want this to be over.
I've been very anxious lately to end my marriage. I know it's over. I can't reconcile with him. I will only make things worse.
Why not try something different? You have two avenues that you can try: 1) stop asking him about the divorce and sit quietly. He thinks he is in control and has power over you right now because you want him to do something and he's not doing it. In a way, it looks like you are pleading w/him...so stop for a while and see what happens...or...2) take control and set up an appointment with a mediator and get the ball rolling yourself and advise him of your decision on how to handle things.
Me, personally, I would try #1 first and that doesn't work, take back the control over your life and do what you think you need to do to get the ball rolling. Why? Because many of the MLCers will drag their feet and hope that the LBS will sick and tired of them sitting and doing nothing and will do the work. Sometimes you have to do it if you are tired of asking and waiting for them to do something.
Nee, it's all up to you...but you do have some avenues you can try.
Nee, I don't think asking for him to see a lawyer is pursuing, but it is making it real for him. If I want mine to suddenly be super sweet, all I have to do is ignore a few texts or tell him I'm done and whamo, instant change-o. Like Job said, the second they feel you are secure, they bolt off again. Stick to your guns and don't go down that path with him. A few nice words from his fear of abandonment don't make a changed man.
My weekend was relatively quiet. As I said on my thread he sent me a couple of updates about his time with my S. Not something he has done before. Mine never says anything sweet or personal. Just the tone changes from monster to Mr. Nice Guy. I've been getting Mr. Nice Guy a while. I think it is because he is in the honeymoon stage with OW2. Once that starts getting rocky (and of course it will) he will either be VERY nice to me or bait me for a fight. He'll take supply any way he can get it.
I should have a week of pure calm now because he is back on shift. I'm looking forward to it. Trying to get the kids to finish out the school year successfully.
Hope the job is going well and you are moving forward for you. Time and distance will make the emotions quiet for you.
HI Job,
I'm going to take your advice and start with not asking for the divorce. I'm not able to pay for a mediator right now, so I'll have to wait on that one. I'm starting a new job tomorrow and I'm hoping that will keep busy to where I'm not obsessed with starting the paperwork for the divorce.
Thank you!
Nee
Hi, Ownit,
I def do not want him to see me wanting a divorce as a reconciliation attempt. I also don't want him to try and reconcile. One thing I don't like about NC is that they feel like they have control again when we absolutely have to respond. I hate that I needed his money the other day when I took the dog to the vet. I had to text him and I did NOT want to.
I hope you do have a calm week ahead of you. It's so nice to be able to avoid any nonsense for a brief time. Their temporary niceness gets on my nerves because it's never sincere. It's nauseating sometimes.
I start my new job tomorrow! I'm getting my things together for a nice first day without any interferences. I'm a little nervous but that'll pass.
Xx, Renee
Nee,
Congratulations on the new job. You are going to do just fine!
Congratulations on the new job!
Thank's y'all
That's means a lot. I'm getting more excited as the day goes by.
Job,
Wait exactly is baiting? Is it only to start a fight? I don't know why I need this explained..? I feel like I'm the one who starts all the fights, but that's only when the OW comes in my head. I don't do it nearly as often, but I still do it sometimes.
Nee, you want emotion from him so use negative means to get it. Work on your detachment some more.
Baiting can mean any number of things: 1) to push your buttons to get a physical as well as emotional reaction from you; 2) to wind you up to the point that you can't think straight; and 3) when they get your attention and you start to warm up and chase after them again and again and get slam dunked each and every time. Some personality disorders love getting reactions out of their kibbles supply sources because this feeds their ego, i.e., especially when you react just the way they want.
Think about fishing...you bait the hook and the fish comes along and swallows the bait, i.e., hook, line and sinker. We are all guilty of snapping up the bait from their lines.
fighting only fuels his negatives. And it drains you.
Put the stop sign in your mind if the OW thoughts get to you, and redirect your brain to your new job, your fun peeps and your dogs, etc.
It does get easier
Thanks ownit and 25, I'm going to try and stay calm and NC as much as possible.
Job,
Ok, I get the baiting aspect of it now. I fail a lot at that sometimes. Not much lately bc of NC. That certainly does help. The thing with NC is he will nastier sometimes when I ignore him. Mainly when it comes to money. Also, He thinks I owe him a response when he says "Are you and the dog, ok? I see there's some awful weather there." Do I have to respond to keep the peace?
Also, he wo
Nee,
They like attention and if he can't get your attention being nice, he'll become nasty. It doesn't matter whether the attention is positive or negative...it's getting you to notice him.
I see no reason why you can't respond to questions if they are relevant. If he's inquiring about how you and the dog are doing, just respond "h, yes, we are okay. Thank you for asking." Just very short and sweet. You also don't have to respond the minute you receive the text. You can wait a while before responding. If he asks why it took you so long to respond, say "h, I've been busy and this is the first chance that I have had to look at my messages."
New Thread:
New Mantra: Sitting quietly.