http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2726378&page=1Not sure if I copied the link right or not.
Journaling:
Not much to say other than that she is pushing harder to get all of the D paperwork finished so that we can finalize the D. Friends have told me that she has said that she wishes I would move on so that she could start dating. Kind of a gut punch, but whatever. I assume that that is very normal for those that want to get out a M and also want to still look respectable. I am getting the feeling that there is an OM that is waiting in the wings, but nothing is proven. If it is the same guy as the EA from April-July of last year I will be very PO'ed because he was someone that was a good family friend. Come to find out he is a very manipulative/charismatic individual.
I guess I need to completely detach from her at this point...hard to do to the mother of your children. Why isn't it easier to detach from someone that has made it clear that they don't want you or to be with you?
SBJ,
We are living parallel lives. Every question you ask...I too am asking. Mach1 just gave me some homework on my thread. I think the answer to why is it so hard to detach is related to FEAR...at least it is for me...so the q is: of what are you afraid? Figure that one out and then maybe it'll pave the way to detachment...
Gord...I read his response on your thread and also read the link to eric's and I agree that fear is the answer:
1. I was a 20 yo kid when my W and I started dating and I don't have much life experience w/o her.
2. She has been responsible for all of our bill paying and finances for so long that I don't remember the last time I balanced a check book.
3. She has been my one and only intimate partner for the last 25 years.
4. I am fearful that I won't look right in the eyes of those that I talk to about God and his desire to keep marriages together...even though this is not my idea.
5. I am fearful that my kids will see that D is the easy way out of a M if you don't see eye to eye with your spouse. I don't want to ever hear that they give up and I feel that by going thru with a D that I am giving up on my M.
I really don't have any good answers to any question other than the fact that I guess I am co-dependent to my W. I was happy when she was happy. I gave me pleasure to do for her and give to her. I forgot what it means to be truly happy for myself. Not to mention the fact that she wasn't one to do for me simply out of the kindness of her own heart. An old joke between us was that there are "givers" and "takers" in this world...I was the giver and she was the taker. It finally was summed up by her extreme selfishness in our current sitch.
Your link is okay. I'll go ahead and link the new thread to the previous one for you. Thanks so much!
Friends have told me that she has said that she wishes I would move on so that she could start dating. Kind of a gut punch, but whatever. I assume that that is very normal for those that want to get out a M and also want to still look respectable.
SBJ .... so look at this from a DB perspective. Why would she need you to move on so she can date? For those of us who have been at this for a time, this is because of the guilt. If you would just go and date someone thats all she needs to justify her actions and do this guilt free. This comment is more about her than you ... understand that.
I am getting the feeling that there is an OM that is waiting in the wings, but nothing is proven. If it is the same guy as the EA from April-July of last year I will be very PO'ed because he was someone that was a good family friend. Come to find out he is a very manipulative/charismatic individual.
Also realize, after a long relationship it would be wise to take some time and heal, the fact she is insinuating already dating so quickly is a red flag, one you will be forced to accept as hard as it is ... and the gut punch that follows. It is fairly rare someone goes through MLC without the OP, it does happen but understand it is a possibility. Very well may be in your case she is just hiding it, or maybe she is keeping things at arms length till she gets those D papers and she can do as she pleases. Regardless ... as I have said .. MLCrs will do what they will do.
Look up Affair Down, this too is common with the MLCrs and the OPs, and understand most likely if there is an A its not bound to last ..... my MLCr has been on and off again with OM more than I can count, and I have no idea what the status is of those two currently as it took to much of my energy to even keep tabs on it.
I guess I need to completely detach from her at this point...hard to do to the mother of your children. Why isn't it easier to detach from someone that has made it clear that they don't want you or to be with you?
Its easier said than done, trick is to GaL so much you simply do not have time ... and after awhile of that you start reinventing yourself and finding yourself actually liking your new life ... like MLC this part takes time too but you will be a stronger man for it.
This part of it is not easy, and I am not an authority on how to detach as I admittedly stunk at this, but over time I have gradually realized her crisis and sinking ship could no longer be my crisis and sinking ship.
Like the Lobster story I shared, you have to suffer to the point you cast off that co-dependent shell and start to change for your own good ... question is when have you suffered enough to do this remains to be answered.
THX Cali...I have read up on the "affair down" thing and I agree, but because the AP was a guy that I knew, worked out with, and welcomed into my house for dinner, I feel even more PO'd about it. Again, she says that nothing happened between them, but I know that there was an EA simply due to the amount of phone time they spent. Not to mention times that they had met for lunch or coffee.
She is very self-conscious about her reputation and her image, so I know that she is waiting to go public either with her new single-ness or with OM. That doesn't make me feel any better either way, but it is out of my control.
I am trying to focus on healing me, and you are correct about waiting for a while as far as dating is concerned. I would be in no position emotionally to give any relationship a chance. Why do that to someone else...wouldn't be fair. I would be lying to you if I said that the thought of being with someone else hadn't crossed my mind, but then my W pops into my head and it goes away. I haven't been with another woman, other than my wife, since 1994. Sounds crazy, but that just tells us that we are lifers when it comes to relationships.
SBJ
My journey in all this seems looking back you could outline it in sections, thinking about that ... might do some good to actually Outline it all ... may think of that ... anyways ...
I think men typically look to date to fill the void, rebuild ego and just validate they are worthy .... for whatever reason seems we take the personal hit of OM a bit harder than our LBS-W counterparts. Again ... just difference in the sexes in my opinion.
You are correct in the thought that you are no where near the emotional level required for a new relationship ... with all that has happened you are not even there to have one with your W either, that's the PTSD effects of a BD and something you will have to sort through as you process and heal.
Thing to keep in mind, you can not control her, OM, the weather nor all the elements that surround you ... you can only control how you react to these things, and tbh at first its hard to even do that ... you have to train yourself. Control you, focus on you, improve you ... the rest is out of your hands.
SBJ,
I know this stinks. Growth from within yourself stinks sometimes too because the growth comes because of something you don't want.
My EXW's affair dude was a friend as well. was in my house many times watching football etc.
So I know the punch in the gut, the pain, anguish....all of it. I know!!
What I will tell you is this. You will grow immeasurably, you will grow stronger, you will look at life differently. There is life on the other side. I know you may not believe that but I wanted you to know from somebody who has been there.
As Cali mentioned. Some fill the void with.....whatever. Fill the void by becoming stronger, answering the tough questions about yourself. Little by little you take back you. This is not a sprint. It is a long trek but so worthwhile.
Just know we are here behind you. We have taken this journey and are here to give you a lift or just listen if necessary.
You are on the right path. Don't be too hard on yourself.
Mirage
I don't think men have the market cornered on being eviscerated by a spouse's affair. I have a pretty healthy imagination, and the picture of them being together doing anything - even her sitting in the front seat of his car - puts a ball of frozen lead into my stomach faster than I can even complete the thought.
But you might be on to something - in my case OW was also someone that we know, someone we've sat with at parties who knows me and knows that we have children together. I think that definitely makes it worse - knowing your spouse could (a) do that to you and (b) the OP who knows you could do that too. It's a double whammy.
I like Cali's suggestion for detaching as GAL so much that you're too busy to think about them. That seems so much more doable than just trying to think your way through to detachment.
It seems like many of us are in a similar stage right now...
I get the feeling she is making such comments to state to the world that she isn't seeing anybody. Her bringing up those " false rumours" was another way for her to state that she is not seeing anyone. To me she is trying too hard to press home the point.
Tbh there is nothing stopping her dating. You moving on or not has nothing to do with it. She wanted to leave, she left. If she wants to date, which she repeatedly states that she does, well she will date.
I obviously do not know but I would believe your gut on this one. Many lbs are torn apart wondering IF and then explode when that if is confirmed.Many vets tell newbies to assume that there is another person and that it is serious. Once that is accepted (not approved) by lbs, the lbs can stop WONDERING and realise their spouse is lost for the time being and hence the lbs can focus on other things.
So if it helps you to think of other things, why not assume it to be true. Either way she does not want a R with you. I know that is hard but that is where you are at. It is even in your thread title.
Before I change topic, I am curious as to what your friends tell W about you? Why does she think you are not moving on? Be careful what and how you say things to mutual friends. Viewing where you are, I would encourage you to inform your mutual friends that you no longer wish to discuss what W is doing or saying.
Those snippets of information are spinning in your head. Each word she says or action she takes, you move them around in your head to piece together this puzzle. But tbh it does not matter if you fully understand what she is doing. Until she wants back in that is wasted energy and time.
It's time to hunker down and prepare for this not going your way for a long time. She wants to D and she wants to date. It could take months or more likely years before that changes. How are you going to spend that time? Imagine that it will take THREE more years before she wants to try again with you. Not all WAS do come back but assume that you know for a fact that she will but not for another THREE years.
So I ask again how are you going to live for those three years? I can tell you now that unless you move towards LIVING and THRIVING that will be a very very loonnnnnnggggggg time. Now you know you have time. Let's figure out how best to use it.
GAL is a key component for so many reasons. It fills your hours but also your head. Part of it is about getting busy, but it is called GAL for a reason. It is a good start just to be able to do stuff but the aim is to do stuff you like or better still that you love. A side affect of this is you meet people with similar interests, you are doing stuff that you can discuss with others and ultimately that makes you a more interesting person and that can be/is attractive. But along the way you find yourself and get to like that guy.
You have some good people in your corner. Listen to them. I borrowed a traits changing tool from Caliguy. I know he didn't invent it but to me it is his as I first read about it in his posts. Basically you make three lists:
A. List 5 things you like most about you
B. List 5 things/traits you dislike about you.
C. List 5 traits you consider desirable but don't have.
List A helps self image as it points out our good characteristics.TThe tool is to put together a plan to replace the items from B with those on list C. I don't have the time to outline in more detail but that is basically it.
Best wishes my friend.I understand what you are feeling and it is normal.It just will not help you. Change your focus.
4. I am fearful that I won't look right in the eyes of those that I talk to about God and his desire to keep marriages together...even though this is not my idea.
What does this mean? I know people can be judgmental, particularly religious people...is that what you mean? As I was just reminded, you can't control what other people think, say, do...so I think this is one of the fears to let go...easier said than done...
Re your W saying she wishes you would start dating...again, hard to/not helpful to mind read...my W says the same thing...I get a couple of different versions...
I haven't written much over the last week...kind of a well deserved break from my own crazy life. The last week has been busy with the birthday parties of my mother, my niece, and a friends surprise 50th. I obviously attended the two family parties with my kids, but the friends 50th I went stag got to visit with several current friends and also met some new people. It is good to get out of the comfort zone sometime.
Yesterday morning around 1am, my youngest woke me complaining of severe back pain and he was soaked with sweat. We brought the fever down and the W took him to the dr first thing. He was quickly admitted to the hospital with pneumonia. 24 hours later he is doing much better and is on the mend. I spent several hours at the hospital with the W yesterday and had great conversation. No R talk, but good, normal conversation nonetheless.
The MIL was also there for a long while, so she of course chimed in on alot of the stuff going on with my two SIL's...they are both nuts in their own ways. One is a long term addict (25 yrs) and the other suffers from high anxiety. The wife has always been a mother figure to both of them. The addict still relies on the W, but the younger sister and W don't even talk now. She was the only one that spoke up to W about making a mistake in leaving her family.
The W spent the night at the hospital last night and I will take the shift tonight. It hurts to see your kids hurting. I would do anything to take his pain and discomfort from him.
I hope everyone is doing well...God bless and have a blessed day!!!
Yesterday morning around 1am, my youngest woke me complaining of severe back pain and he was soaked with sweat. We brought the fever down and the W took him to the dr first thing. He was quickly admitted to the hospital with pneumonia. 24 hours later he is doing much better and is on the mend. I spent several hours at the hospital with the W yesterday and had great conversation. No R talk, but good, normal conversation nonetheless.
1 I hope your S is doing well/getting better.
2 Glad that you were able to have "good, normal" talks with the W.
Hope your son continues to heal SBJ!!
I wanted to jump in and validate your feelings on how much more difficult it is to cope when the A person is a "friend" or someone we know. In terms of gender differences, well I can't speak to that, but I can say as a woman having to think about my H with OW (who I thought was a friend for years), well it made me physically sick. It has also been much harder to forgive him.
I actually thought OW was a close friend; we hung out often, family dinners weekly, family holidays, and even vacations. Although I always had some instincts about her and that she was dishonest and manipulative. Then she started to use our children to spend more time with H, started bad mouthing me to him, and when our M started having troubles, well she was always right by his side wanting to comfort him. This was while my father was dying and right around the time my teen was being diagnosed with bipolar. She preyed on his vulnerabilities. He was weak and ran to what "made" him feel better. I blame her as much as I blame him, because even in my own cloudy depression, I saw her behaviors clearly.
And guess where this psycho moved when she left her H? Right down the street from me. I had to see my car with my kiddo's car seat in front of her apartment. Sick & twisted. He did put his tail between his legs and try to leave her several times--during the EA and when they were together after we split--but it wasn't until their R died (he realized he was running and it wasn't real) and I started to move on that he did his sharp 180 and came back.
So if you have read my sitch, then you know my H has been back for almost 2 years. OW? Well she just moved on to next OM. I do believe that the universe has a way of working these things out. But of course I still have a lot of resentment. It doesn't affect me or my mood, but it remains. I think this is why I still struggle with respecting him.
So where am I going with all of this? No matter how she justifies what she did, every morning she has to wake up and live with herself. She may wake up and justify her behavior or she (most likely) skates through life in a perpetual state of denial. So I pity anyone that lives without introspection; it must be a shallow and lonely existence. How can you ever have deep and meaningful relationships if you can't look inside yourself and grow? If you can be okay hurting others? If you can keep running to others for validation?
My H is in a different boat, in that he has looked at himself, his mistakes, and he has tried to make changes. However, this has also come with a painful price and led to more shame and depression. It is gotten better and he is looking forward, but this is forever in his history. You can't escape your bad choices, even when you make them right. He hurt so many people in this, including all of our friends, family, and his own children. I would never want that riding on my shoulders.
So we LBS get to hold our heads high. I am not perfect and we ALL make mistakes, but overall I feel proud of the choices that I made. I am still trying to DB and look at myself and how to be a better W, mother, and person. I am still fighting for my M and my family. I am trying to do what is right and I think there is honor in that. I would never go after a friend's H, have an A, or hurt people that I care about. I am proud of my character. I think I have attracted awesome people and friends in my life because of that.
So as hard and as painful as this is, all you (we) can do is wake up each morning and try a little bit harder. Make choices that you can be proud of. Look inside of yourself, and even if it's painful, face those challenges. As time goes on, I promise, you will heal and you will get stronger. And as for the liars, cheaters, and deniers? Well, I think you will learn to feel sorry for them, as they will not come out on top. If you keep fighting the good fight, you WILL COME OUT ON TOP. Juts believe in yourselves. You are here reading and so I believe in you.
Blu
SBJ, I missed your last post--I am sorry to hear about your son. I hope he is recovering well!
Blu
Blu...thanks for the kind words on my sitch and also about my son. He and I are both fighters so we will prevail. It doesn't mean that the sitch at hand doesn't stink, but like roist says...we will THRIVE.
It does seem odd to me that someone would be able to do this to someone that they claim to love, but it is what is happening. I, like you, know that when I wake up each morning my conscious is clear. I can only pray that God is talking to her each and every night when she is at her most vulnerable. Maybe one day she will see what she has done is wrong. Not just to me, but to our entire family.
I have loved her and treated her with total respect for our entire 25 year relationship and honestly have never even given another woman a thought. I like:
1 Corinthians 10:30...No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.
I feel that we all are tempted at times, but it is how we handle those temptations that show our true colors. She failed once 21 years ago and asked for my forgiveness. We got back together and have had 3 wonderful kids together and many great memories which she is rewriting now, but I am a man that made a covenant with her and God and would see my family restored. At this point it is all in her court and she has to decide whether or not she wants to ask to come home and work on things.
As many others have stated, some people have to push the D all the way thru before they realize what they have done. It seems that she is of that mindset. She is asking me to finish my paperwork so that the attorneys can finish things up. I am truly uncomfortable, but I am willing to drop the rope at this point. It will really hurt, but I guess we have to get out of our comfort zone at time.
SBJ--I agree with you 100% on everything you said. I have been reading the psalms as comfort. My W was always the more religious of the two of us which makes it all the more difficult for me to believe this is happening. Stay strong.
UPDATE...S10 is out of the hospital and back home. He is doing fine after 3 days of being pumped full of antibiotics. D14 is now sick, but doing well at home with meds. I will be grateful when their illness is behind us. I had the kids last night and they did great. The W is getting them today and taking care of them today. It is her weekend with the kids, so I guess I will be decontaminating my house all weekend. HAHA!
Hopefully the rain will hold off and my oldest and I can get to the golf course. He is wanting to improve his game and I am desperately in need of practice myself.
UPDATE...S10 is out of the hospital and back home. He is doing fine after 3 days of being pumped full of antibiotics. D14 is now sick, but doing well at home with meds. I will be grateful when their illness is behind us. I had the kids last night and they did great. The W is getting them today and taking care of them today. It is her weekend with the kids, so I guess I will be decontaminating my house all weekend. HAHA!
Hopefully the rain will hold off and my oldest and I can get to the golf course. He is wanting to improve his game and I am desperately in need of practice myself.
Glad the kids are better and awesome that you are getting back out on the golf course with your boy--spring time in Texas?
Glad to hear your S is out of the hospital and on the mend. Hopefully your D will continue to do well.
We are supposed to have quite a bit of rain here....hopefully you guys don't get any, and you and your S can get a game of golf in.
Hopefully everything else is going okay, and you are hanging in there.
One day at a time my friend
Too much rain in the forecast for golf today...i guess I will have to settle for the rest of the laundry, golf on TV and getting to the gym.
I saw "The Shack" last night with friends...great movie. I will now have to finish the book.
Also did some reading yesterday and a specific article on God's perfect timing came up. It is truly interesting how impatient I am. I want things done immediately and I'm sure we are mostly the same in that regard. I have placed my M and my W in his hands to take care of at this point. I don't know what his will is for us right now, but I have faith that his will will be done.
I hope everyone has a blessed Sunday and that you find the peace we all deserve.
I'm glad your son is home and resting.
Everything happens in God's time, not ours. That's why it's important to turn things over to him. What he creates may not always be what we want, but it's what he knows we need.
Enjoy your day!
Glad to read your S is home from the hospital.
I don't often post, but I do read along, and I do think you are on the right path and making progress. Loosing the control and giving your situation over to God is a wise move and will help you move forward. The best plan is not to watch and wait, but to focus on you and let the rest unfold..
Enjoy your day of golf and washing!
Xx
I agree with everyone on everything happening on God's time, its his plan and he knows what we need. I just happened to listen to an online message from Andy Stanley about "the right person myth"... good stuff!!
Thank you job, Sotto, and hawker...it is the hardest thing for me to let go and let God take control of the situation. At this point, he is the only one that can can either guide her back to our family, or give me the strength to accept that she is refusing to follow his lead. Either way I will be fine. Things will be rough for sure, but I am confident that I will thrive.
>>>>>>
I read an account from a woman whose husband left her and moved in with another woman. She was giving thanks to God for this happening, as it has made him more of the man he is supposed to be and made her realize that she was carrying him thru life. It was a touching story. I kind of understand her in a way.
I feel that my wife wanted to control everything regarding the household. Since she only worked a few days a week, I let her take care of the bills and that type of stuff. I took care of the retirement, but she handled all of the other financial obligations. This has handed me back that kind of control and it feels good. I guess I feel that I have my b@lls back. I still want my family put back together, but I feel much better as a man than I have in a while. Just my observation.
>>>>>
Listened to Kenny Chesney's Save It For A Rainy Day this morning on the way to work. Great lyrics:
chorus
'Cause the sun's too bright,
The sky's too blue
Beer's too cold to be thinking about you
Gonna take this heartbreak and tuck it away
Save it for a rainy day
>>>>>
Everyone have a great week...God is Good!!!
SBJ,
I was at church and looking around I saw two families:
1. The H physically threated his W and she had to flee with the kids to a battered womens' shelter. The H actually got himself together and they reconciled.
2. The H did some white collar crime and went to jail. The W and kids stood by him during this trying time. He did his time and came back to the family.
When I see these families, it gives me faith that with God, all things are possible.
Update/Journaling:
Nothing negative to say about anything. God is good all the time and guides us if we are willing to simply ask for directions.
Kids are out of school for Spring Break and we have had an unusual cool front blow thru SETX. I have them all this week and they are cool with just hanging out at the house doing a stay-cation.
The four of us went to church together yesterday and I was confronted by one of our Deacons wives that happen to be friends with the W. She said that the W was talking to her the other day about how great everything is and how everyone is going to be fine thru the D...the lady told me that she finally had to tell her that she will not talk to her about that kind of stuff because she doesn't agree with her. They have been friends for a long time and it is kind of nice that someone else, other than a family member, has finally spoken up. I'm not saying that it makes a difference at this point, but maybe one of these days something inside her will click.
I hope everyone has a great week...
SBJ--that is awesome; thanks for sharing. It took courage for that lady to say that to your W. From the success stories here, it seems like the wanderers are so self-focused they are deaf to this type of criticism...until at one point, they finally hear it/see it...and you never know when that is going to be.
Ok I lost it today. The W texted to see if I had spoken to my attorney. I kind of ignored and then forgot to respond. She called later while I was at the grocery store and began asking questions about it saying that it's been 6 months and how she is concerned about running out of money. I said I'd look into it and the she kept them coming. I lost my cool and kind of blew up. Basically saying that D is wrong and will have detrimental effects on our kids down the line. I ended with have your attorney call mine.
She then said that I don't care how she feels. Maybe she is correct. I thought I always put her cares and concerns before mine, but in this instance I guess she might be right.
In retrospect I guess I have been dragging my feet on getting my attorney paperwork together...I guess it is frustrating her. She wants to be divorced asap. I feel at this point I have to totally drop the rope, have the divorce paperwork completed, and say WTF. I want to fight for our M, but I only have control over myself.
SBJ,
You are super frustrated, angry...it's totally unfair that your W can unilaterally end your M. I get it. I feel the same way. But you will be okay no matter what. God loves you and has a plan for your life. It may be different that what you expected so you've got to cling to your faith. Pray, pray, pray, vent, vent, vent...and let go of your W and your M. This too is fighting for it. What you are doing now isn't working so you need to try something different. The more you fight and delay the more your W digs her heels in. I gave my W everything she needs to file in early January and left it in her court...and she hasn't. This is a tragedy...accept and grieve...and then move forward.
Hi SBJ,
As far as losing it goes, dont let it get to you, keep moving forward. I think she was pulling strings to get you to react.
I'm kind of in the same boat. I tried to outlast the MLC but W is bent on D. It's hard and I've been cycling but overall I'm trying to view it as what she needs (or thinks she does) to move forward through her crisis.
You are correct. She was pushing my buttons for sure. She knows my feelings that D is not the answer, but she is hell bent on it. But, she then threw in the fact that I don't care about how "she" feels about it. I will admit that I have only thought about myself and my kids thru all of this. I do not understand her feelings on this, because we have always been against D.
How do I switch my mindset to view this more from the outside looking in rather than the PO'ed LBS?
I need to totally drop the rope at this point, finish the D paperwork, sign them, and continue to work on myself. The feeling of abandonment just hits me at times. I know I can survive w/o her, but I never thought about it, because I signed on forever. Kind of stinks.
Remind me again about what will happen financially once D takes affect? This is just so I remember the full picture.
Remember that in this you are considered as the source of all her woes. She was unhappy in the M because of YOU. She has not gotten her D because of YOU and now she is running out of money ebecause of YOU. There are two sides to every story. That is a fact, but one she is blinded to. The harder you fight your side, the blinder she will become and the more sure she is right.
Many say, to stall for time. Do this if you wish but by cooperating slowly ratherthan blocking it/her. However if she perceives you are not giving her what she wants she will go after it even harder. There are many cases here where the lbs has cooperated fully with D, but the WASn never followed through. Some do of course. Why not all? I believe that up until the moment the lbs goes along with the "plan"hhe/she is the reason they don't have what they want. Once this is not so, the WAS can focus on other things and their certainty wanes. I am not saying that all of a sudden they don't want to divorce. They were locked in a fight with the lbs, and their sole focus was to win that fight by any means possible.
Get out of her way and give her time and space to think about another focus.
Earlier I mentioned her using any means possible to get what she wants. That includes the "pity" card. Poor little me may run out of money. Don't fall for that. It is not your problem. In fact it could help her see reality in face. Don't go out of your way to create such consequences, but be aware of their importance in showing the WAS that the rosy life on the other side us tainted.
I understand your anger and frustration. However it just makes her focus more on you as the problem. Sometimes anger can help to show WAS that you are not at their whim, but where possible it should not be shown to WAS. There are many reasons but mainly because you come off negatively,hhence proving them right...... in their minds.
Now that it is done, don't dwell on it. Learn from it and from this whole incident. What can you do differently going forward d? Plan how you could react ideally if the same incident occurs next week.
Tell your W that you understand that she wants to D you and that she is eager to do so as quickly as possible. Say whereas it is not what you wantED, you accept and respect her choice and are not or will not stand in her way to getting it. If you want you could state you need a little time to organise X, to process Y or to do Z. State this is to prepare in the best way possible so that D goes as well as possible for everyone involved.
Best wishes.
Tell your W that you understand that she wants to D you and that she is eager to do so as quickly as possible. Say whereas it is not what you wantED, you accept and respect her choice and are not or will not stand in her way to getting it. If you want you could state you need a little time to organise X, to process Y or to do Z. State this is to prepare in the best way possible so that D goes as well as possible for everyone involved.
Best wishes.
I feel that I am at that point now...
I have been kind of stalling for a while now on some of the financial aspects of things and I only have two ways to go on them. One would give her a lump sum and the other would pay her in installments over 8 years until my youngest is 18yo. I guess my fear is that once my attorney puts that on paper all that is left is for her to sign them...then our M will be done with. That is the fear talking I know, but it is real.
I guess since my memories are clear, I remember a happy M that we have shared for 22+ years. We have had our ups and downs like most married couples, but have be great for the most part. Since she is walking thru this fog, she has re-written our life as totally bad. None of our family or friends can believe this is going on with us. I guess MLC is the other silent killer. It sneaks up behind you and wham!!! I think I was hoping for some divine intervention while we have been separated, but it isn't in his timing yet.
Tell your W that you understand that she wants to D you and that she is eager to do so as quickly as possible. Say whereas it is not what you wantED, you accept and respect her choice and are not or will not stand in her way to getting it. If you want you could state you need a little time to organise X, to process Y or to do Z. State this is to prepare in the best way possible so that D goes as well as possible for everyone involved.
Best wishes.
I feel that I am at that point now...
I have been kind of stalling for a while now on some of the financial aspects of things and I only have two ways to go on them. One would give her a lump sum and the other would pay her in installments over 8 years until my youngest is 18yo. I guess my fear is that once my attorney puts that on paper all that is left is for her to sign them...then our M will be done with. That is the fear talking I know, but it is real.
I guess since my memories are clear, I remember a happy M that we have shared for 22+ years. We have had our ups and downs like most married couples, but have be great for the most part. Since she is walking thru this fog, she has re-written our life as totally bad. None of our family or friends can believe this is going on with us. I guess MLC is the other silent killer. It sneaks up behind you and wham!!! I think I was hoping for some divine intervention while we have been separated, but it isn't in his timing yet.
This is rough. Don't lose faith. God's ways are above our ways. While you are actively waiting, keep working on you. For those of us in long term M, there is a gravity that is indescribable. Praying for you today.
I know how hard this is and how painful the rewriting of history is. I think they need to do this in order to go thru with the divorce. You know what is true and you also have tremendous faith . Hang in there sending you {{{{{hugs}}}}}
Thanks bttrfly...I need to simply let her go. That is hard because I am the product of divorced parents and I always said that I'd make my marriage work no matter what. The problem with saying that is that it does take two people to make a marriage work.
I love the woman that she was for over 25 years and I truly believe that that person is still in there, but she is definitely hidden at this point. My faith and my kids are the things that are getting me thru this.
I thank everyone on here that have been thru this and continue to support those of us that are in the midst of it.
I had a simple policy of - if it suits me, I'll be more proactive and otherwise more reactive. So, it really suited me to get financials resolved as all my funds were invested in our home and I was 'without' enough money for a couple of years. However, I didn't want to get D'd, so I was rather slower in that area. Not slow enough to be dragging my heals, but I didn't rush you know?
As for your understandable views about marriage, based on your own childhood experience. Was it Budda who said those things we cling most dearly to, we sometimes have to lose? And also, I do think these experiences, and the trauma growth as a result, can help us revisit and heal these painful wounds from our past.
And finally, some situations need to go all the way to divorce in order to start moving forwards - that just seems to be the way sometimes unfortunately. But - even if divorced, I don't believe the situation has been resolved until/unless you decide to close the door.
Take care SBJ
I had a simple policy of - if it suits me, I'll be more proactive and otherwise more reactive. So, it really suited me to get financials resolved as all my funds were invested in our home and I was 'without' enough money for a couple of years. However, I didn't want to get D'd, so I was rather slower in that area. Not slow enough to be dragging my heals, but I didn't rush you know?
As for your understandable views about marriage, based on your own childhood experience. Was it Budda who said those things we cling most dearly to, we sometimes have to lose? And also, I do think these experiences, and the trauma growth as a result, can help us revisit and heal these painful wounds from our past.
And finally, some situations need to go all the way to divorce in order to start moving forwards - that just seems to be the way sometimes unfortunately. But - even if divorced, I don't believe the situation has been resolved until/unless you decide to close the door.
Take care SBJ
Agree with Sotto! In my situation, when I was fighting my W on the D...she was full speed ahead...and when I backed off and said I wont' fight you on D...she slowed way down...still married today...no idea how it will end, but taking it one day at a time...
SBJ, I learned something in therapy yesterday and I thought I would share. There is a term called "reactance." I will take part of the definition from Wikipedia:
Reactances can occur when someone is heavily pressured to accept a certain view or attitude. Reactance can cause the person to adopt or strengthen a view or attitude that is contrary to what was intended, and also increases resistance to persuasion.
When my therapist used this term a light bulb went off in my head. Ah ha, this is why we are advised to refrain from R talks, etc. I totally get it now that I understood the psychology behind it.
Please, please, please understand that I am not scolding you or reprimanding you for what you did. I don't see that as my place. God (and everyone here) knows I have done things I was advised not to. It happens. We are human. This is a tremendously difficult time. I share this because I found it helpful to broaden my understanding and it helps me maintain my focus, so I thought maybe someone else might find it helpful too.
(((hugs)))
SBJ.....I am so sorry that things are becoming more difficult.
I understand when you said that you love the woman that she was for 25 years, and that you believe that person is still in there. I feel the same way about my H. I can remember asking him "where did the man that I married go?" I know he is still there, and he is starting to see that he has not been who he wants to be. I can only hope that this self reflection continues.
I don't really have anything to say to make you feel better. Just know that we are here for you, and of course each other. Not sure how I would have made it this far if it wasn't for everyone on here.
I am so happy that you have your faith and your children as a source of strength.
One day at a time my friend.......
Thanks skm...the 3 F's...faith, family & friends...they are what has helped my PMA. Oh, and whiskey...I forgot to add that. My faith tells me that thru prayer and petition my needs will be met. My family tells me that even though I feel abandoned by my W...they will always be by my side. And, my friends, the real down to earth friends, will have my back thru thick or thin.
I have done a ton of reading and still am a total novice on the subject, but I know enough to know that MLC, or whatever it is that she is going thru, is devastating to a family unit. As a LBS, my family (parents & siblings & my children) has gotten closer...so that is a good thing.
As the MLC'er, my W's family (her parents and siblings) has somewhat splintered. As far as I can see she has continued a fairly good relationship with our kids. And, as far as I can tell she has continued to be friends with most of our family friends...not any of them had stood up to her to say she was nuts. Well, one said that she would talk about it, but nobody confronted her. She has also created an entire new group of friends that do not know me or what our M was like for the last 20+ years. I hear that is typical MLC.
She continues to push me to get the D decree done...so that she doesn't live in limbo any longer than necessary. I can only assume that is also so that she can date. This drives me nuts.
You are right...one day at a time!!!
I'm usually a Knob Creek guy but to mix it up have recently tried Woodford. Good stuff!
I'm usually a Knob Creek guy but to mix it up have recently tried Woodford. Good stuff!
Gord, I've Like Knob Creek as well. It's pretty smooth. I have a group of 4 other friends that are into different whiskey's. Experimenting with different bottles is great.
Unfortunately, they are all divorced. 2 of them are happily divorced, or so they say, and the other two are regretfully divorced. It seems like I will be joining the latter 2 fairly soon. I'm not trying to make it a self fulfilling prophecy, but I just received first draft D decree papers from her attorney for me to look at and I guess make changes to and counter. Kind of a rough early afternoon.
SBJ--ugh, so sorry to hear that! It's 5 o'clock somewhere, right? I'll raise a glass to you tonight. Take care of yourself and those kids. Are you engaged in spiritual practices that help you in these dark times?
Gord, I was chosen to direct a men's retreat that will be this summer. I have about 40 men on this team and we should have 30-40 men that will be going on the retreat. It is a wonderful group of like-minded Catholic men that literally have each others backs. We met last night and it was a bit tough seeing so many older men that have been married 30, 40, and 50 years, but I have to have the faith that God is in the drivers seat and will keep me safe...even when the waters get rough.
I said in a post either on mine or another persons, but sometimes I wonder if this trial is meant to teach me something or meant to teach my wife something. It is hard to imagine that God would want us to hurt, but sometimes thru great tragedy comes great triumph.
Hi SBJ,
Taking a break from work and read your post about the decree. Sorry to read that, strangely I still feel numb about mine from last week. after my first meeting about it I felt a strange sense of relief when I left, and I was really dreading going in. I didn't drag my feet but I would take a day or two responding to process things if I needed it. Remember to treat it as a business deal at this point and to look out for yourself and kids.
I'm trying to put myself in the mindset of this being the next step in the process. It still feels kind of counter productive for wanting to save my M, but I guess as some have said, the old M is over anyway. I am staring at the pre-decree papers right now making notes on them that I might want to change and this still feels so surreal to me. It feels like I am the one in a fog. All I have to do is sign these papers and then a D decree would be written up for the judge to sign. It just doesn't seem real.
I have only spoken to two family members about this so far, but both my father and one of my brothers totally have my back on this. My father tells me that the hurt is so deep that it will take years for it to fade to a memory, but he says that it never goes away. My brother says that even though I am hurting I should realize that none of this is my fault and that I should try and heal with that at the forefront of my thoughts.
My kids will all be home with me this weekend and I totally need that quality time with them right now. God bless the love of your children...it is unconditional and is ever ending.
I truly thank everyone here for the care and support that everyone has given so freely. Everyone here are true angels of mercy.
I have done a ton of reading and still am a total novice on the subject, but I know enough to know that MLC, or whatever it is that she is going thru, is devastating to a family unit. As a LBS, my family (parents & siblings & my children) has gotten closer...so that is a good thing.
As the MLC'er, my W's family (her parents and siblings) has somewhat splintered. As far as I can see she has continued a fairly good relationship with our kids. And, as far as I can tell she has continued to be friends with most of our family friends...not any of them had stood up to her to say she was nuts. Well, one said that she would talk about it, but nobody confronted her. She has also created an entire new group of friends that do not know me or what our M was like for the last 20+ years. I hear that is typical MLC.
Hi there SBJ...I've been reading along with you but have not been an active poster. You've given me a lot of comfort on my thread so I wanted to stop in and try to provide the same. I'm rubbish at wisdom, but I can at least be there in solidarity. What you're describing in your family and your W's family... I'm experiencing the same. My family has circled the wagons and H has isolated himself from his immediate family as much as he can. Things are very fractured in his family as a result and my family is working hard to heal the girls and I. I guess that's just the way with MLC; something we can look at and be grateful for in this storm.
I can't say I share your affinity for whiskey, but a dirty martini with some quality vodka has been known to help me out in these troubled times. That and I discovered ZzzQuil, which works extremely well in the sleep department. I would advise against employing both of those agents at the same time, naturally.
Keep the faith - you continually inspire me to do the same.
You can't make this $#!^ up.
So I get a text from the W earlier today asking if I'd help buy our youngest some shorts because she could order them on sale. I said yes. She texted a bit later asking about some other clothes. I said yes. She texted a bit later asking about something else for him. I politely texted back saying to figure out everything she wanted for him and then let me know and we could decide together.
She texted back a bit later with the total and we agreed on them. A minute later I received a text asking if I had signed the pre-decree forms. All of this like it was the same conversation. I guess in her world purchasing summer clothing for my son is equally as important as signing divorce papers.
Just WOW!!!
Amazing how they can be so matter of fact about such important issues. Their empathy chip sure is non existent! Stay strong SBJ.
SBJ......I'm so sorry that your W is being so insensitive to you. I know it is so surreal how they think. But as we know they are only thinking about themselves. The sense of entitlement is unbelievable.
I don't know what to say to you except that we are here for you.
they are in their own world and make little sense to the rest of us living on planet Earth.
{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}
keep your chin up! keeping you in my thoughts and prayers xoxoxo
As the MLC'er, my W's family (her parents and siblings) has somewhat splintered. As far as I can see she has continued a fairly good relationship with our kids. And, as far as I can tell she has continued to be friends with most of our family friends...not any of them had stood up to her to say she was nuts. Well, one said that she would talk about it, but nobody confronted her. She has also created an entire new group of friends that do not know me or what our M was like for the last 20+ years. I hear that is typical MLC.
Hey SBJ - nothing new to add except to second what Bird has said.
I've also experienced my mother, my siblings and my closest friends pledge to solider on with me no matter what, and so far, they have. This includes asking me for D updates even when I know they don't want to talk about it, but sense I might need to get something off my chest.
My W has distanced herself to varying degrees from every member of her immediate family as well as surrounding relatives. She's trying to find some solidarity in her elder sister who's currently losing her own marriage (and her health) to a raging 15 year battle with alcoholism. Both of them are too trainwrecked to hear what the other one is saying. Misery loves company.
My W also has new friends that don't know me, our M, or the person she used to be. I call them her "MLC Friends". She's trying to expand this new circle of friends all the time, but these are all people on the cusp of 40, and they don't want to close the bar every Saturday night like she wants to.
I guess it's true that MLCers create a new social orbit of "users and losers" to make themselves feel better. I read on another thread that while they blame the spouse as the root cause of unhappiness in their life, they really want to separate from their previous life altogether - and that may involve estraging themselves from family.
We're doing all right. Hang in there.
Hi SBJ, just wondering how you were doing. Sorry your going through this and your w is making it worse w/no empathy. Actions like that are reminders of how gone they are in the MLC. Not advising to drag your feet but don't let her rush you. There is a sense of relief in figuring out the unknown but if you need a day or two to process things and let go take them.
Take care!
Thanks for the messages Coly, skm, bttrfly, Brubeck, and Kyh...not saying that things are better with her, but I am realizing that I'm not broken. I need to keep growing, but I'm not broken.
Psalm 28:7New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
7 The Lord is my strength and my shield,
in whom my heart trusts.
I am helped, so my heart rejoices;
with my song I praise him.
I am trying to stay strong for my kids and keeping my house a beacon. I like the lighthouse story, but I'm realizing that God wants to grow in me a spirit of never quitting.
Next month has two events in them regarding my W. One is her birthday and the other is the anniversary of the beginning of her EA...it happens to fall on Easter. I will buy her gifts from the kids for her bday, but I think that I will keep Easter in my heart for it's true meaning and not because of the connection to the EA.
Today I had a memory of the last time she and I had laughed together...we used to keep each other in stitches, but 2016 was simply sad. The laughter is coming back when the kids are home with me and that is a true blessing. They are a true blessing from God. I have them from tonight thru next Friday and that truly makes me happy.
I hope to have our pool ready to go for April 1st...not trying to make people jealous. We sure do enjoy the outdoors her in my part of the country, but without a pool in the summer it is pretty unbearable outside.
Have a blessed weekend everyone!
Sorry to butt in and I don't know your story (but hope to soon), but I'm in this polyanna stage where I am trying to reframe things for my own sanity. Wondering if maybe she asked you about the clothes and such because she was feeling the need to work up to it or simply wanted some positive connection with you. I used to have an employee who would come up to me all the time and ask me things I know she knew the answer to. I think she was perhaps a little fearful of me or didn't know how to interact and was trying to have some kind of connection. I could be totally off-base and probably am, but letting go of negative thoughts can be a gift to ourselves. Best wishes to you.
That's a good point Helies. SBJ, is she the sort of person who usually goes around the houses before saying what she really wants to or is this new and part of her MLC?
Too late, you've made me jealous of your pool! Living in a relatively cool climate even in the summer (UK, ugh!) the thought of being able to have an outside pool always makes me envious of people living in warmer climates!
She's never really been one to beat around the bush on what she wants, but at the same time she and I were never good at communicating our needs from each other out of fear we may hurt the others feelings.
And yes, pools are fun, but can also be a lot of work. Have a great weekend.
So I've been leaning on this scripture for a while...
Matthew 10:26New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
Courage Under Persecution. 26 “Therefore do not be afraid of them. Nothing is concealed that will not be revealed, nor secret that will not be known.[a]
I know that it is speaking of the truth of the word of God, but I have been wondering when or if either she will slip or I will hear from someone else about her plans.
Well last night it happened...having drinks with some of "our" friends and found out that the EA never ended and turned into a PA. Also explains some of the things that the W has said throughout this process..."that one day I will see what we were missing, but I just don't see it yet!" I guess that was her telling me that she had found it and that this guy is her soul mate.
I know everyone says that the A is just a symptom of the MLC, but this was an extra hard gut punch last night. I know that I need to let go and let God take over, but the hurt is real today. The feeling of betrayal and abandonment totally $ux.
I love my W totally and unconditionally, but why does her journey have to have so much of a negative affect on me, my kids and our extended family?
This guy is a total POS, narcissistic, bad boy, con artist...I refuse to believe that anything of a future could happen with them, but then again I never thought she'd do this to our family either. It is truly time for me to be her prayer warrior, but do it from a totally detached distance. Does anger allow us to detach better?
I have again realized that I do need to work on myself, but now realize even more that I'm not the one that is broken.
Oh man.. I'm so sorry SBJ. Like you I've been assuming A but have yet to have it actually confirmed. I can only imagine how visceral that confirmation must have been for you. Our minds can conjure up quite a picture and really cut us to the bone, can't they?
I wish I could offer something that would make this less painful. Everything you are saying is what I've been thinking too. We know the A is a symptom and we know that they are the ones who are broken, so it doesn't make any sense why we are the ones how are brought such pain by the crisis.
I think you can let go and let God, and at the same time I think it's ok with Him him if you also need to bawl your eyes out from the pain. Maybe that's how we get it all out so that we can give it to Him.
Hang in there tonight. I'll be saying a prayer for you.
Thanks Bird, I have my three kids with me tonight and they are what keeps me sane.
The W showed up at church this evening and sat by my youngest and myself. She texted after Mass and said she didn't get to say peace be with you to me during the service. I responded in kind and told her that she is in my prayers daily. Her response was..."Thank you...I do pray for peace for you too". She is so lost in her fantasy that she is blinded to what the true consequences are. It's like I'm stuck in a bad soap opera.
So I've been leaning on this scripture for a while...
Matthew 10:26New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
Courage Under Persecution. 26 “Therefore do not be afraid of them. Nothing is concealed that will not be revealed, nor secret that will not be known.[a]
I know that it is speaking of the truth of the word of God, but I have been wondering when or if either she will slip or I will hear from someone else about her plans.
Well last night it happened...having drinks with some of "our" friends and found out that the EA never ended and turned into a PA. Also explains some of the things that the W has said throughout this process..."that one day I will see what we were missing, but I just don't see it yet!" I guess that was her telling me that she had found it and that this guy is her soul mate.
I know everyone says that the A is just a symptom of the MLC, but this was an extra hard gut punch last night. I know that I need to let go and let God take over, but the hurt is real today. The feeling of betrayal and abandonment totally $ux.
I love my W totally and unconditionally, but why does her journey have to have so much of a negative affect on me, my kids and our extended family?
This guy is a total POS, narcissistic, bad boy, con artist...I refuse to believe that anything of a future could happen with them, but then again I never thought she'd do this to our family either. It is truly time for me to be her prayer warrior, but do it from a totally detached distance. Does anger allow us to detach better?
I have again realized that I do need to work on myself, but now realize even more that I'm not the one that is broken.
I am heartbroken for you. That's just beyond words and the going to church with you and the kids. You had the reading of the healing of the blind man, right? How poignant. I too wonder why God has set us in this painful path and I am reminded that his ways are above our ways. Lift up your suffering for the salvation of your W's soul.
SBJ, I'm so sorry to read this. I haven't posted a lot but have followed your thread and In hindsight it makes sense. They want to hurry the D so they can excuse their inappropriate actions. It sounds like your dealing w/it well considering the circumstances. Better than I did. Use the anger to detach if you can and focus on yourself and the kids. They will need you because in my experience w will put herself and OM first (actually she already has); for the time being she is gone.
SBJ.....I am so sorry. That is news that no one ever wants to hear.
I know when my husband said "yes, its true I had an affair" it was like this rage came over me. I started yelling and screaming and trying to hit and kick him. Definitely NOT one of my better moments.
I still am trying to cope with my anger. It is something that comes and goes. Sad to say its been more prevalent lately
If you can find a way to use the anger to help you detach then you are doing much better then I am.
You are such a strong man and thankfully you have your faith, family and friends to help you through this difficult time.
Please continue to take care of yourself. My thoughts are with you
Hard as it is, I think you are better off knowing the truth. Your path has not changed. I hope that you can find a way to channel your emotions regarding this into working on what makes you happy.
It is a gut punch. It is telling you to let her go completely. Holding on will only hurt you more withaditional punches. Maybe this is the push you need to move out of survival and into living. Aim for that.
I agree with those who state OM is just a symptom.That may not help you immediately but I urge you to trust it is so. His presence may cloud your wife's judgement for a while yet. Be ready to be patient.
But whilst being patient ramp up your efforts in all other aspects of your life. Live it as fully as possible.
I am sorry you have to go through this. It changes nothing unless you choose that it does. You can still save your M, but it will take time.
Best wishes
Thank you guys for the kind comments. This totally stings and is something that I have not been able to get out of my mind. She has still not owned up to it, but I was told from someone that has first hand knowledge.
Roist I thought I had been patient...it's only been 5 months since she moved out and BD was only in July. That just tells you how to me it feels like forever, but some that have been in this for so much longer. I love her...I think unconditionally, but that is truly being tested right now. I definitely hate what she is doing and who she is becoming. It's like Satan has her by the short hairs and is controlling her every move.
I guess it is the hurt and the feeling of betrayal that are the worst parts to all of this. I am continuously telling myself that I am not broken and I did not break her. God will have to take the reigns for a while, because I need the rest. She is in my prayers every hour of every day, but like you said, my focus needs to be on me for now.
THX
I am sorry. I know it hurts. Broken people seek out other broken people. In MLC they are not going to attract healthy relationships: neither on the platonic nor the romantic front.
Hold your head up high and square your shoulders. Be thankful you don't have to live with the guilt of doing that.
Keep the focus on you. Leave her to figure things out herself.
I am sorry for your pain. When I learned of my H's EA several years ago I went to a divorce lawyer who told me to accept that it was likely a PA. She said that way I could accept it for the worst so that future disclosures would not be a death by a thousand cuts. To this day I am convinced it was a PA. Even after he confessed his later PA he still insists it was an EA. Now I could care less about either or how many other women he has slept with in the last few months. I accept that this has nothing to do with sex or love and everything to do with his disfunction. I think I have this attitude because it is done and I don't want that mental tape to play in my mind forever. It is very easy to love people who are honest, kind, and true. It is very hard to love people who lie, cheat, and dishonor. But to love unconditionally requires just that. How long any of us can continue to love that way is the big unknown.
HaWho and OwnIt...thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts. Everyone had been saying to simply assume that the PA was true, but I guess it is still a shock to the system.
Last night I was able to speak with a close church friend and came to the conclusion that I needed to find out who "I" am at this point in my life. I feel that I have been known as ____'s husband or so and so's father, but I have kind of lost my own personal identity. I have always focused on being the best son, the best husband, the best father, or the best friend I could have been, but I feel that I need to simply put all of them into God's hands and strive to be the best man that I can be period.
Always a very good thing!
I'm having to sit thru an online court ordered co-parenting course that is required in TX for divorcing couples. This is total BS and not at all family friendly. In the first 10 minutes it has stated several times how well children do thru a divorce. What a crock of BS.
I have an appt this afternoon with my attorney to counter alot of what the W has put into her paperwork. Doing what I don't want to do, but am having to do.
A friend suggested the other night kind of the same thing many here say...he said to tell her that I love her very much and because I do I will let her go. His point was that she will either fly with this OM or find out that the grass isn't greener, but at least I won't be waiting for her to change. Kind of what everyone has said I guess.
Wish me luck.
That parenting course sounds like hell on earth. No such thing (I don't think) in the UK. Kids don't cope well in any break up and it will scar them for later life.
Good luck with the legal eagles!
Ok the parenting course stunk and the visit with my attorney was painful, but I've got this.
A it of an ego booster...my attorney kept saying that I should start thinking about dating or getting out there a bit. She said that I'm a good looking guy and have a great deal to offer a good woman. While I'm sure she was just building me up a bit, but it sure was nice to be complimented. It's been too long.
Hi SBJ,
Here we have to do 5 hours in person parenting class, split over two days, or the courts won't hear your divorce petition.
Funny story: this was initiated by the judge who oversaw my ex inlaws custody battle over exh. This judge literally saved my exh's life when he was a teenager and going down a very bad path. She had him come to her chambers every single day after school for months while she tried to decide what was the right thing to do for him. She was an amazing woman. My exh called this the "ExMIL and ExFIL Memorial Parenting Class" ... my son teased him several times - "Gee dad, don't you think this rule is in place because of Grandma and Grandpa?"
Well, I guess you have to have a dark sense of humor to find it funny. We all think it's hysterical ... laughing through our tears, I guess.
Anyway, that parenting class for me was pivotal in understanding why my husband is the way he is. He was the parentified child. He was used as a weapon. He never saw his parents make up, only fight so he only learned to avoid fights or to go in for the kill. I wept through most of it. At the end the teacher said she was sorry it was so hard for me. She thought I was crying for my son. The entire class was shocked when I told them that I was crying because this class taught me that the child whose parents did all the wrong things grew up to be my husband and that's why I was there now. I think some of the people who texted through the entire class maybe learned something from that. I hope so anyway.
SBJ - yes, kids are resilient, but divorce will change them. You're right, but at the same time you know that what kids need most is to know that they are loved no matter what, that this isn't about them and that you are going to do everything possible for them. You are a great dad. Just keep being a great dad and know that regardless of what part of the deep end your wife is swimming in or who she's with, you will be co-parenting with her.
And yes, I am a person who went through this divorce process telling my exh exactly that, "I don't want this but I love you and want you to be happy. I don't believe in divorce. I don't believe our marriage cannot be saved but I love you enough to give you what you want. If you want this divorce, it's up to you to make it happen. I won't stop you but I won't stand in your way either."
Did it save my marriage? No. What I think it did was give my exh many opportunities to pause. He dithered for a good while. That approach really took him aback, which was good. It gave me a chance to DB during the time that we went through mediation. Most importantly SBJ, it gave ME the chance to figure out what it was that *I* wanted. I realized a lot of things by coming at this from the most loving place I could.
I strongly encourage you to say that to your wife and watch what happens - both with your wife and for you, internally.
{{{{{hugs}}}}}
A it of an ego booster...my attorney kept saying that I should start thinking about dating or getting out there a bit. She said that I'm a good looking guy and have a great deal to offer a good woman. While I'm sure she was just building me up a bit, but it sure was nice to be complimented. It's been too long.
SBJ--I think she was hitting on you!!!
Hi SBJ,
Anyway, that parenting class for me was pivotal in understanding why my husband is the way he is. He was the parentified child. He was used as a weapon. He never saw his parents make up, only fight so he only learned to avoid fights or to go in for the kill.
bttrfly, I guess since she an I have always co-parented well together it didn't help me much. On the other hand, now that you mention how her past might have been formed from the way her parents were with her that kind of makes since. My W is a great mom, but lacks communication skills with me...more than likely as a result of her parents marital issues and divorce.
And yes, I am a person who went through this divorce process telling my exh exactly that, "I don't want this but I love you and want you to be happy. I don't believe in divorce. I don't believe our marriage cannot be saved but I love you enough to give you what you want. If you want this divorce, it's up to you to make it happen. I won't stop you but I won't stand in your way either."
Did it save my marriage? No. What I think it did was give my exh many opportunities to pause. He dithered for a good while. That approach really took him aback, which was good. It gave me a chance to DB during the time that we went through mediation. Most importantly SBJ, it gave ME the chance to figure out what it was that *I* wanted. I realized a lot of things by coming at this from the most loving place I could.
I strongly encourage you to say that to your wife and watch what happens - both with your wife and for you, internally.
{{{{{hugs}}}}}
I did say that to her and got little to no response. She is still in a fantasy world as to having a life with this OM. I cannot change what she does or wants, but like you I am trying to find out what I want. She will either click one day or she won't, but I have to find out who I am again and just enjoy "MY" ride with my kids now. I do love her and miss having her in my life...she truly was my best friend and the love of my life, but we all make choices and have to live with the consequences of those choices.
SBJ--I think she was hitting on you!!!
Gord, I think she was just building me up. I know it sounds like an oxymoron, but she is a pro-marriage family law attorney. She and I agree that God can heal a marriage, but both parties have to actually want to save it. My W is still wrapped up in her fantasy and thinks her Utopian Life is just on the other side of signing the D papers.
Gord, I think she was just building me up. I know it sounds like an oxymoron, but she is a pro-marriage family law attorney. She and I agree that God can heal a marriage, but both parties have to actually want to save it. My W is still wrapped up in her fantasy and thinks her Utopian Life is just on the other side of signing the D papers.
Just joking with you...you gotta laugh sometimes, right? Actually my D attorney also does marriage retreats through church, etc., so I get that.
Utopian life life is just on the other side of signing the D papers. Yeah, I sadly get that too.
I think my biggest issue with divorce is allowing the state into my relationship with my children. I think this is why I have avoided anything formal and have no intention of ever filing for divorce. My youngest is almost 14. I could see letting this sit for years if he doesn't push it. I think once the kids are out of the house and we are signing a piece of paper about property it doesn't have the same emotional impact for me. I am not sure how I would handle a court-ordered parenting class. I can see the benefits in some cases, but in SBJ's I can see it also doing more harm than good.
Journaling...the W's birthday is this week and I have given $$$ to my oldest to take care of a gift from the kids to her. Is it weird that I still feel odd not going out and buying her a gift for her birthday? I always got a charge out of finding something that I thought she'd really like. My MIL is taking her and my kids out to dinner to celebrate...first one apart.
I have been keeping her and my children close in my prayers this week. I have been on edge since it is getting close with regards to the D paperwork being ready. Actually received 3 calls from her so far today...2 about business stuff and one about $$$ (taxes and kids). Sometimes, it is awesome to hear her voice. Brings back happier memories for sure. I miss hearing from her during the day either to tell me something that has happened or even just to ask me to pick up something on my way home from work.
I'm not one to analyze dreams, but I had one hell of a nightmare/angered dream Sunday night. It woke me to where I couldn't go back to sleep. It made for one long day yesterday. Anyway, in it I was having a heated confrontation with the OM and the W was defending him. I woke up when things were just getting too out of control. I guess I was too mad and angry to get comfortable to go back to sleep.
Of course you miss hearing from her and buying her presents. You were together for decades! Take care of yourself for now. Be your own best friend.
I know Gord...I'm trying. It's just special days that are extra tough. I always tried to take extra good care of her on her birthday. She deserved to be treated special especially on her days...bday and Mother's Day.
Now while she and our kids are out celebrating her bday with the inlaws, I'm at home grilling steak and venison backstrap, sipping cold beer with my dog...I'm just glad I haven't been so bad off that I started writing country music. Haha!
Ha ha, well there's still time SBJ!
Looks like you live in the same state as Brene Brown - I think she is great - have you watched her TED talks?
Sotto I had not heard from her, but listened to a couple...pretty good stuff.I especially liked when she spoke of who we should or should not speak of our personal shame to. It makes sense. People have to earn the right to share your "story".
Thanks for the referral.
You're welcome. I first heard of her on this site and reading her work has been pretty life changing for me. I discovered there is a world network of accredited trainers who courses based on her work - and we have one in the UK. I just booked to go on a workshop this Autumn - exciting!
Hope you're having a better day today.
Sotto,
I too, am an avid student of Brene Brown. I need to go back and re-read her books. She's so good.
I'm not one to analyze dreams, but I had one hell of a nightmare/angered dream Sunday night. It woke me to where I couldn't go back to sleep. It made for one long day yesterday. Anyway, in it I was having a heated confrontation with the OM and the W was defending him. I woke up when things were just getting too out of control. I guess I was too mad and angry to get comfortable to go back to sleep.
I think sometimes dreams are our subconscious way of dealing with things and it can be helpful to analyze them. Some are meant to be analyzed and can be life changing and others are rubbish. I also had one I mentioned in my thread that was quite unique. In another I kept having after bd, I was in a reoccurring nightmare of being in an out of control car w/someone else driving and would wake up after it crashed. The last time I had the dream it crashed into a cemetery, instead of waking up I got out and saw a man w/ two kids going to a grave. As I watched I realized it was me and the kids looking at w's tombstone. I haven't had those nightmares since; what a LBS message.
It is odd not getting things for bdays, etc. but you did the right thing giving the kids money to do it. In a roundabout way they know and appreciate it even if they can't acknowledge it.
Keep strong on the D front I know it is hard but we will get through it.
Thanks Kyh...I know that God will guide my family thru this trial, but it is exhausting.
Why do we sometimes do things that we know we will get hurt by? Yesterday I searched FB because I noticed all of the HBD messages to my W. Low and behold there were tons of well wishes. What I noticed was that there were only a few that she responded to. One was a friend of hers that is the feel good person...whatever makes you feel good you should do it, is his motto. The other 2 were to to other guys. One was the older bother of her OM and the other was to the younger brother to the OM. While I know I should not have even looked...I did it anyway. I guess I was the kid that touched the stove even after my peeps told me I'd get burned.
That totally made for a gut wrenching evening. I will be forcing myself to stay away from social media...that is probably for the best anyway. Instead of looking at the false lives of others, I should keep myself focused on myself and stay in the word anyway.
SBJ
I think we have all been there
I know I also checked XH Facebook as well as OW
for me it was a validation of who my XH is with what I suspected was indeed true
I do make a point to not visit anymore as it is long gone
hang in
Yup ... that FB will only hurt you more as it then becomes more 'real' in a way.
My MLCr for years would delete me and re add me .... the delete portions would be punishment, when I made her mad .. actually became a joke for some time with our mutual friends. So when she nuked me prior to BD it was just another day in Cali's life.
I did not suspect nor even know about OM till a few months after. I recall her posting something about Driving up north and OM posted on her page "Safe Travels" I was livid .. the nerve of that guy to openly confess the affair like that ... least that's how I read it and assumed everyone knew at that point ... that's how nuts I was.
She blocked me years ago .... I returned the block and I do not even feel the least bit curious TBH but it takes time to get there, takes time to learn if you continue to touch that oven its only your fingers getting burned to a crisp not theirs ... you will learn in time to stop handing over power like that to the OM/MLCr
Am I the only one blessed with an MLCer who deleted his FB page?
I'm quite grateful for that as I know I would be too tempted to look and then would not be happy with what I saw.
I learned enough when I had to review the credit card statements during mediation. His life is his own. Best way to get through this for yourself and your children (and believe it or not, your spouse also) is to firmly focus on you.
We are here for you !!!! xoxoxoxoxo {{{{{hugs}}}}}
Thanks guys...I know that it will be the best to stay away from anything she does or says, but sometimes it is hard to do.
Picked the kids up Saturday from her and she began telling me about her rough week with one of the SIL's. This is the one that is the lost black sheep of her family. The W is still playing mom to her and trying to make sure she is "saved" from her own mistakes and consequences. She is now living on the streets 100+ miles away. As I was leaving she reached out for my hand...nothing big, but that little bit of physical touch sent shivers down my spine. Touch is my top on the 5LL scale. It killed me, but maybe put just enough in my tank to stand for a while longer.
So, yesterday morning, the texted to see if I was awake, then called me to tell me that she would not be attending church with us for the Palm Sunday service. She began telling me that she had been at the ER most of the night with my MIL and did not get home until at 4am. She then kept on telling me about the entire ordeal and what the docs had said.
She then, in a very matter of fact way, said..."Oh, ___ & ___ broke up". It was like I was back in high school hearing about friends that split up. I have only met these people once and when I did, I assumed they were married. Anyway, maybe the W is stuck in some kind of high school time frame...who knows.
On my mind this morning and prayed for all of you...
"Put on the armor of God so that you may be able to stand firm against the tactics of the devil. For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens. Therefore, put on the armor of God, that you may be able to resist on the evil day and, having done everything, to hold your ground." - Ephesians 11-13.
HI SBJ.....thanks for stopping by on my post.
I have been keeping up with you and reading along. I don't really have too much to say, but know that I am here to support you.
When I read your postings about your W they remind me of my H. Every conversation has to be about him and what he has been through, how he is feeling, how he blah blah blah. It's like they forgot that we are also going through a difficult time, and are trying to wrap our heads around what is happening in our lives. Why does everything always have to be about them?!?!?!?!
I hope that you are coming to a place where you are starting to feel somewhat better (if that is possible). It has taken me almost 17 months to finally start to realize that I am going to be okay, and that my life is moving in the direction it is supposed to be going. I still have my sad moments, but they don't seem to be as difficult to deal with as before.
Please take care of yourself. Try to do something you enjoy, something that will put a smile on your face.
Take care my friend
One day at a time....
Hi SBJ,
Thanks for keeping us in your prayers.
As I was leaving she reached out for my hand...nothing big, but that little bit of physical touch sent shivers down my spine. Touch is my top on the 5LL scale. It killedme, but maybe put just enough in my tank tostand for a while longer.
I have two contradictory comments about this statement.There are times in this journey where we use whatever we can to keep going. So if that works for you
, use it.
However I feel it is healthier to have reasons/motivation to stand that is independent of W. Otherwise if she acted differently you no longer have reason to stand. Maybe that touch represented a future connection for you. Being motivated by an eventual new connection is good IMO. It's potential is all that is important at this stage. It's likelihood or timeframe are of lesser importance. Can you achieve that future vision of you two reunited? It can happen but a lot of water may need to pass beforehand. Your motivation to stand will need to be very strong.
Second important aspect of this statement is it devalues you. She gave you a scrap and you made a meal of it. I am fully for enhancing the positive but not to the detriment of your self image.
If the rumours/talk is true of her cheating, then for now you should not want her touch. Even if not, I worry you are too attached for your own good.
2x4 over.
It is good that she felt comfortable enough with you to touch your hand. Many don't.
I know this answer flip flopped a bit. I hope it makes sense to you what I am saying.
Thx roist...2x4 absorbed and accepted. Maybe in writing that the touch gave me more encouragement to stand was not written correctly. Her touch, I guess reminded me that she is still in there somewhere. Maybe my mind is playing with my emotions, but it worked for me in that moment.
As for the scrap vs the meal...maybe you are right in a way. I'm a very physical person and I have been without any physical touch from her for 9 months...it has been tough. You get some kinds of physical touch from friends and family, but, and I know you know what I mean...the touch from the woman or man that "you" love is unmatched. Now, I know that in her mind it might not have meant anything...that is a reality that is all too clear as I read all of the posts here, but in some weird way, it felt nice.
Do I need and deserve much more? YES.
Will I break my vows to her and go find that with someone else? Not in the cards for me.
As for reasons/motivations to stand...I think my reasons are based in the word. I made my vows and I take them seriously. I also, for whatever reason love this batchitcrazy woman with all my heart. I would love her if she were in an accident and crippled. I would love her if she were diagnosed with cancer. I would love her if she decided to never return to our family. To me that love is unconditional. That being said...I don't approve or like who she is right now or what she is doing, but the love is unconditional.
As for the rumors, you are correct...should they be true, then she has a lot of work to do before I'd ever let her come home.
The things I do know:
I have to be strong for my kids and for myself.
I know there is a God and I am not him.
I know He has a plan and I do not know what it is.
I am learning to accept His Will for my life.
I am going to take it one day at a time and give thanks for all of the good things that I do have in my life.
That is exactly the reply I hoped to hear. You are doing well.
Best wishes
Do I need and deserve much more? YES.
Will I break my vows to her and go find that with someone else? Not in the cards for me.
As for reasons/motivations to stand...I think my reasons are based in the word. I made my vows and I take them seriously. I also, for whatever reason love this batchitcrazy woman with all my heart. I would love her if she were in an accident and crippled. I would love her if she were diagnosed with cancer. I would love her if she decided to never return to our family. To me that love is unconditional. That being said...I don't approve or like who she is right now or what she is doing, but the love is unconditional.
As for the rumors, you are correct...should they be true, then she has a lot of work to do before I'd ever let her come home.
The things I do know:
I have to be strong for my kids and for myself.
I know there is a God and I am not him.
I know He has a plan and I do not know what it is.
I am learning to accept His Will for my life.
I am going to take it one day at a time and give thanks for all of the good things that I do have in my life.
THIS is why you are my daily inspiration on this board SBJ. I feel exactly the same way about H and my family and I'm trying every day to let God do the lifting. Wish I wasn't such a control freak, lol.
Touch is not high on my 5LL (I'm a words girl), but I feel you on the 9 months thing. Nearing 1 year on any kind of real intimacy and it wasn't even that good of an experience. I think he knew what was going on before I did and it explains a lot about that morning, lol. Still, it's amazing how you crave something simple like an arm around your waist when no one is there to offer one. Stay strong, I know it's tough.
I was going to post over on my thread that I'm going to have to start a playlist of SBJ's motivational music. My sister has been trying to get me into Chris Stapleton so now that I've got two people on my case I'd better give him a shot.
Thanks Bird...daily inspiration or not, there is only so much humanly possible for us to do. We seem to put up with this batchitcrazy stuff and hold out hope that some way our spouses will return to reality, but what if this is their new reality?
Just got a call from the W saying that her attorney called her and said that he had not heard back from mine. She was basically asking me if I'd hurry up and get my attorney to finish up the changes to the D paperwork so that we can get them signed.
Her funny, self-serving comment was..."I know you think I'm rushing this, but it has been 6 months...and nothing has changed." Again letting me know that her feelings have not changed and that I simply need to bite the bullet and finalize the divorce. She also said that this is costing her money that she could be spending on the kids. I guess that is her way of making me feel guilty and bending to her desires.
I can only tell her that I understand how she feels so much. I don't understand. I know they aren't in their right mind, but I don't understand. I don't understand how someone can be so selfish. I don't understand how someone could treat someone with such disrespect.
As I said earlier...there are very few things I know and only a few that I can control, and the rest is in God's hands.
SBJ - I'm not reading nor posting too much but had been keeping an eye open for you. You've been a source of comfort and strength to so many people here and arrived just as I was starting my exit. I know from my own time that helping others helped me get through some of the bad times.
I was a bit surprised in some ways to notice a reference to OM and so read back a bit. Yep - heard this song before. Sang it myself in fact. I went from March 2016 through the middle of April wondering why my devoted W of nearly 27 years suddenly was unhappy and wanted to leave. She'd been involved with OM for about a year at that point and the EA had turned into a PA roughly in January as I figured out later.
I don't know about you, but for me it was a relief in some ways to find out about OM. I actually calmly confronted her about it since she was still in the house and it became open between us and a source of conflict although a secret to the outside world. But things suddenly "made sense". It was also good for me in some ways even if the shock of it knocked me very badly on my @ss for a very long time. Depression, weight loss, suicidal thoughts. All of those things affected me. You are in many ways fortunate in that you have both your Faith and your faith community to sustain you as well as your own innate strength.
I don't know what your plans are as far as talking to your W about OM goes. It probably doesn't make any difference though other than to perhaps add some more emotion and anger to the situation. Once my own W knew that I knew about OM it was as if an alien that had been living inside her skin was released. Even though there was no spew directed my way nor her way it was very unpleasant to say the least. Things appear to be somewhat civil in your own situation at present.
I suspect that your W is well along what my own W had been planning. Leaving, starting a "new life" and then suddenly having a new guy appear in such a way as nobody in the community nor her children could fault her. There are lots of stories here where exactly that happens. I somewhat messed that up but then became complicit in keeping her secret which was painful. I kept hoping until towards the end of last year that she would come back and because she wasn't open about having left when her affair came to light via a friend's Facebook post it came as quite a shock to much of the community many of whom thought we were still together. Most of those who knew she left had probably bought the story that she was unhappy and wanted time alone. The rest were split between people who were horrified and who were happy for her (mostly her relatives and new friends). I have no clue at present about how her life is going and how people in the community are reacting. I think that sides have been firmly picked and I have been grateful to so many wonderful people who have been so very kind and supportive of me.
Anyway - a bit longer post than I intended but if you've ever read any of my threads you'll know that once I start writing that I have a hard time stopping. I just wanted you to know that I think you are doing great and hope that you continue to be a source of strength for your family, your community and this place no matter where your path leads you. Those of us who have gone before have blazed many trails through the foggy woods and hopefully our experiences, mistakes and victories have helped to guide you on your own path.
SBJ, thanks for the inspiration on unconditional love. That means a lot to me. And church? Yes a while ago she stopped going with me and the kids and said she didn't want to go with me any longer. The last two weeks she joined us.
Thank you Andrew...she still adamantly denies any OM, but I also remember what they say about not believing anything that they say. I am kind of waiting for the OM to jump out of the wings and all of the sudden just be there. I will have to cross that bridge when I come to it.
You are right in saying that my Faith and my friends have been a source of strength to me. None of this has been easy, but it says to keep your eyes on the Lord and pray ceaselessly. By doing that I guess He has helped me cope with this trial. It is definitely not over and I am not totally at peace, but I am trying to rely on the fact that I am not in control over what is happening, but I do have control over myself and my PMA.
I hope things are going well with you.
Gordie, I am having to remind myself that He is working on her, even if I cannot see or feel that He is. I can only hope and pray that your W is hearing the truth and is actually fighting the temptations that were drawing her away from you and your M. I feel that that is the number one problem with these MLC'ers. We all have temptations that are thrown in our path throughout our lives...it is how we react to the temptations that makes or breaks us.
I am an imperfect person trying to save my M to the woman that I love. God knows my heart and I know he has a plan for us all...my problem, like most, is I am a wrestler at heart. I give it to God to take care of and then I wrestle it back from him to try and fix myself. The I repeat that cycle. Once I am able to totally give it to Him and not wrestle it away from him then the true healing can begin.