WAS vs MLC..not sure it really makes a difference

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Job and Skyhigh......thank you for responding.

I know that ultimately it is up to me when I am ready to give up on this. I know that everyone just wants me to be happy and not in pain anymore. I think they feel that if I just get the D then my pain will be gone.....but it wont. I agree that he doesn't deserve me and that is also one thing that keeps coming into my head about filing or not.

I filed in the past and to be honest I did that to try to scare him and for him to see what he was going to be missing out on. He didn't sign papers for me to follow through with it so I had it dismissed. I have since told him that if he wants a D then he can file for it.

I do think about if he is using me for monetary purposes, and for keeping his credit in good standing by continuing to pay the mortgage. I really hate to think that he has turned into that heartless of a man and would do something like that. But this is the same man that I was married to for 10 years who cheated on me and then turned his back on me and abandoned our marriage, and has not seen me since November and has not spoken to me since the first of January.

I wanted to send him a text to see if he could help me with the dogs as I am working the next 5 out of 6 days (12 hour shifts). I also wanted to apologize for the last text I sent him. Any thoughts on that anyone?

skm...I don't have any advice on the call for assistance or the apology. My situation is a bit different than yours. Only you know how the conversation will go, but I know that I regret the communication issues that my W and I have had over the last many years. I have resigned myself to saying what I feel I have to just so I will never hold anything back.

As for help with your dogs...they belonged to both of you, so he should want to help out, but he left them also. I would try and find a plan B for them.

Be your own Valentine today and remember how awesome you are. Happy Valentine!!!

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WAS vs MLC...not sure it really makes a difference

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May be you can just send him a message as if nothing happened and ask him for his help. Make sure you don't put any emotions in it. Keep it very professional, imagine writing a report for your supervisor or you can apologize but without putting any pressure on him.

Option 1: no apology
I am scheduled to work for the next 5 days on a 12 hour shift, if will be beneficial for the well being of the dogs to have someone coming, please let me know if you are available to help in this matter. Just as a reminder, the little dog had surgery and need to stretch his legs on a regular basis to improve his mobility.

Option 2: with apology
I apologize for my last message, I have been quite overwhelmed lately with work and a few other issues, I realized it might have been offensive for you. Do you think you might be able to help me with the dogs, I am scheduled to work the next 5 days on a 12 hour shift, I know it's a short notice, but any help is really welcome, the little dog really need to stretch his legs on a regular basis to improve his mobility, please let me know if you might be available.

Those are what is coming to my mind right now, if somebody has other suggestions please don't hesitate.

MLC can transform them into real monsters. My husband also was totally heartless, the kids kept asking me why I married him for almost 3 years. My answer "He was not like that, he was totally different".

One day at a time, with a glass of wine... and a few friends
You will survive and thrive, I know it doesn't seem like it right now but trust me you will.

Life must go on, something my mom taught me very early on. So even if you wait for him, keep living your life, you still can be happy even without him.

Good luck for this week, that's a tough schedule.

SBJ.....thanks for the Valentine's Day wishes. I was at work so my mind was occupied

Hope your day was okay. I know we are doing the best we can do, and that is all we can ask of ourselves. Hang in there my friend.

Skyhigh.....I sent him a message and said I wanted to apologize if my last message was rude or disrespectful, I am sorry. I then said I really want him to be able to see the dogs, and since they were such a huge part of his life and I know he missed them and that they missed him as well. I did not ask him to help with the dogs. I will figure it out. He has to do some of the work too if he wants to see them. That was on Monday and no response from him.

I can not control him, I can only control me.

This is so exhausting!!!

You'e still hinging all of your responses on his "potential" reactions. Just do and act the way you WANT to. Make them genuine.

Mr Bond.....thanks for the reply.

You are right in what you say. I just know who I am (and it sounds like you might also) when it comes to communicating with my H. I allow myself to get worked up and show anger and emotions I shouldn't. We have basically zero communication, so when it does occur I honestly do not know how to respond to him.

It's hard not to have expectations. I have expectations of myself as a feeling, thinking, thoughtful human being and I would like to think he does too, but at this point in his life maybe he doesn't?

This really does wear a person out

Originally Posted By: skm0619

It's hard not to have expectations. I have expectations of myself as a feeling, thinking, thoughtful human being and I would like to think he does too, but at this point in his life maybe he doesn't?

This really does wear a person out

That is something that I think we are all dealing with...the one person that we have known for so long is a totally different person right now. The expectations that we once had of them no longer apply. My W has always been the least selfish, most giving person I know, but has morphed into this totally selfish, self-absorbed person.

And you are right...this is exhausting. Maybe that is why the DB thing makes sense. We should pull our focus away from them and truly focus on helping, healing, and growing for ourselves. Then, no matter what happens with our spouses journey, we will be better people in the end.

Exhausting for sure, you never know what to say, what to do, what to expect from them.
Walking on eggshells takes a toll on us. It's exhausting because somehow our life becomes controlled by their reactions and our fear of them, we cannot be ourselves anymore.

It's not easy to subtract ourselves from their "influence", they are masters at making us believe (gaslighting ) if they behave that way it's because we "forced" them to act like that. Also that behavior lowers/destroys our common sense because our affect is so deeply entangled, we cannot see clearly anymore, and we start to react instead of acting upon the situations we are facing. That's where DB is helping us to remove ourselves from their influence and make choices based upon what's best for us.

DB is probably one of the most difficult task to put in place, at the beginning you have to fake it and little by little it becomes integrated with the way you interact with them.
Did you notice that they are always trying to start something by their comments, actions or conversations, they want to hurt us, they want to get into an argument so again they can justify their choices.

Skm, it's good you have expectations for yourself and you should, but don't expect him to reciprocate yours, they are the epitome of selfishness during their MLC and they firmly believe they are right to do so. They don't care for anybody, even if it seems they care for OW, most of the time, it's more for what she can bring to him to fulfill some needs.

So please don't have any expectations.
When you interact with him, treat him just as a neighbor, the more anger or frustrations you will show him, the less he will be willing to interact with you. I know it's totally unfair but it's sadly the game we should play to avoid to have them distancing for us even more.

It works in the sense it makes them "safe" to communicate with us and it stabilizes the relationship, but don't expect any miracles, MLC is a marathon, a very long one, I got frustrated so many times because I just wanted things to be solved fast but looking back time is somehow good for us, it helps us to decide what we want and work on ourselves .
It allows us to get rid of our bad mechanisms and put new ones on place, healthy ones, ones that are "good" for us.

Now a question?
Did you ever try yoga or meditation?
Do something that helps release those endorphins in your body.
To be in peace with your mind, sometimes you need to feel good in your body (relaxed).
I am not talking about looking as the newest sport illustrated swimsuit cover page, lol...

I read posts from others about how they are having to interact with the H or W for whatever reason. Me on the other hand have no interaction at all with my H. I have stayed away from him and am doing the NC thing. But what I wonder is am I staying too far away? Should I be trying to interact with him more? Or, are his actions of not responding to texts or emails really how he feels, or does he even know how he feels?

I am getting really tired of having no contact with this man. How do people live like this. This limbo thing really s*cks!! How does he just continue to go on with his life like everything is just fine?? I know others say that their lives are not fine and this is there way of dealing with, or not dealing with all of their sh*t.

I have not seen him since November. I spoke to him briefly the first of January. How long am I supposed to carry on with this? I don't really know if I can do this for much longer. This is not what I want for my life.

I really think he thinks that if he continues to ignore me that I will get tired of it and will eventually file for D. I just don't understand that warped way of thinking at all? But then again I am not the one who was selfish and cheated and abandoned my M and my W.

So, am I better off not having communication with him? I honestly don't know. I know that I am still having a very hard time detaching...no question about that. I was also told that I am still doing things with how he will respond as my motivation. I can see where that is true.

I know I keep hearing that time is our friend.....I wish I could see that

I know that this is very difficult for you, but try not to compare your situation w/the other posters. Each situation is different and we don't know all of the ins and outs of their situation because we only get tidbits along the way due to privacy concerns.

You've not had physical contact w/your h for about 3 months, but you did speak briefly w/him in January, so techinically, that was just a month ago. One month or three is not a long time in MLC land. He's not thinking about you right now because he's in his own little world. Whereas, you are thinking about him all of the time. You've not detached enough to realize that contacting him would be pursuing him and reminding him that you are out there. He is very well aware of where you are. Let me give you an example of what transpired in my situation, my xh left the second time in December 1999 and I didn't see him again until the first meeting to discuss the interrogatories and that was in 2002. Now, that's a long time. He only called me a couple of times during that time, acting nasty and making nutty demands. So, if your h is out there and not bothering you or acting nasty...you are one the lucky one. However, if you push or chase after him w/calls, emails, texts, he just might get nasty and tell you to leave him alone entirely and that he's filing.

No, this isn't what you want w/your life and you have two choices, either file for a divorce or live your life as if he might not return, i.e., leave the door ajar and continue on w/your life. Sometimes they reconnect if they see you aren't sitting there waiting on them to call or see you. If they know that you've go on w/your life, they may sense it's time to start touching base, but as long as you sit in one spot...he doesn't have any need to start paddling up stream.

Go back and re-read the detachment thread and Sandi2's rules over on Newcomers. You've got the tools in those threads and once you have a better understanding of how they work, you just might surprise yourself and begin doing more in the detachment area when you least expect.

The first rule we always remind posters of is keep the focus on you.

Mlc is a very difficult road for the LBS

We have to try to figure out which path to take and if any of these choices will make the MLCer come home

The reason time is on our side is because while we wait we heal
one day at a time
until the time comes when all the decisions are made either by us, by them, or but he universe

After 2 years in Limbo, my D was final, I met a man
I didn't want another R
but it happened..Im still with that man
shortly after I got involved my xh decided to Marry OW
he is still with her ( not happy but together)

When the timing is right , we will know-
When my XH Married the oW I was already in another R, but that was it for me
I was done

after 2 years of hanging in limbo
going to therapy every week
DB like crazy..It was just over
but I learned a lot and I gave it my best
I never regret trying and It was an important time of growth for me and my kids

At the time, I wanted my x back-today I would pass

Hi skm, just read this part of your story and I am very sorry you are here.

I am in the MLC land since my BD July 2014. Maybe even earlier if I am honest. I am the queen of many mistakes, emotional reactions and lots of expectations.

It's indeed a brutal road to walk and there is so much desperation in us that we get lost in ourselves.

Time is not to be a friend to make the XS to miss us. Living it I came to understand that time is my friend to really look into myself and see why do I feel such desperation.

It's amazing that with time we start to disassemble ourselves in many pieces and we start confronting ourselves in all areas. We tend to forget why we got here in the first place and we give in to the excrucuating pain that absorb us every second.

It took me a long time to came to some sense, and I am not even close to be feeling totally good with myself. But today I am understanding better what I did to ruin my marriage, understanding that part of my pain is guilty.

I understand my hate for what my XH did, but I also see why he did in the first place.

Time also is helping me to face some of my childhood issues and how I can finally clean those inside myself.

It's helping me to look in the mirror and finally see just one person. Who do I want to see in that mirror is up to me. How that person will behave and react is up to me. I start living myself again.

I did not detached from my XH yet. I have way too much contact and it is disturbing at times. But I feel detached myself from my old self. Now, I don't see a mother, a wife, a person that was hanging in there for everyone. I see a woman that has her likes and dislikes, that wants to make plans for the years left in her life.

I am rescuing my independence and with it it's coming along my smile, my energy to see the world in nice colors again.

I do not want to go into any R right now, but I want to live a life that is my choice.

Regarding my XH, he is trying to pick up the pieces yet. He changed a lot during this time. The first year after BD he was a complete mess and yes I was the worse monster. He was and is nice to me, but there was a lot of venom in his comments every time we spoke.

Now, he is in the apology mode. He tells me that he could have reacted different, he could have treated me better, etc.

What I am trying to say is that we all start changing as soon as the BD happen.

You think that he is having fun, living a life of Gods, but you really don't know. I learned with time, that my XH was miserable. Just an example, on 2015 my X's family called on his birthday, to ask me to help him because he was thinking to end it all. And I was in my own world, thinking he was having fun and enjoying the day and talking to OW all the time. I couldn't be more wrong.

Believe the advices you are getting here. I tried to ignore it many times and do my way full of emotions and I always came back to say... yes, I shouldn't, it was worse, I regret and blah, blah, blah.

One thing I learned... needy is not attractive. Independent and self confident is sexy and very attractive.

I know you need to walk this road with your own feet, and learn your own lessons as you go. I just felt the need to write to you because I am quite emotional and my reactions are the same. But I am now, sure that this is not what will make my XH to look at me and fall in love again.

I am making myself new, stronger and why not... sexier. I know that lately his eyes can shine when he sees me.

So, fake it until you make it, it works.

Cry on your pillow, get help somewhere else, look for things you like, work a lot, whatever you do start asking who you are and who you want to be. Just you, no one else involved.

Regarding filling or not. In my situation I filled to protect my finances, my assets and I do not regret. Everyone has a different situation, but you need to separate your feelings from finances. If waiting is fine, then wait. If it will hurt your tomorrow, then file.

Good luck sweetie... you can do this, I am here hoping I can do too.

Love,
Tita (Pink)

Job, peacetoday and Tita.....thank you for all of your responses.

I know that I have not detached enough. That is evident by my words and my thoughts. I just don't know how to do it!! I don't know how to turn my back on something that I wanted and worked very hard on for a long time. My M was something very important to me.

I just don't understand how someone just ups and walks away and I am supposed to be okay with it, and then continue to live my life like it never happened?? And how H is living his life like the M never happened? This is so messed up!!!

I am at work and just heard the daily devotional from the Chaplain and it was about waiting. The last thing he said was this .....

"waiting can result in our greatest blessings"

It's as if I was supposed to hear this tonight .... divine intervention?

I really am trying to be patient

Skm, anxiety is my worse enemy too. I am a resolve it now person, but maybe that's why it's happening to us. It's to learn patience, using our self control for our benefit.

It's not actually just waiting. I got very confused with the same subject. And was acually seeing things the same way you are seeing now.

But, the more I tried to convince my XH that our marriage was valuable and that we could put some hard work on it and we could pull it together and be happier then ever, the more he justified that things were so bad for the last 10 years.

For a year he said that nothing worked between us. That I didn't love him. But guess what? A month ago, he mention a place in California where we had vacations a few years ago and then I said that we better don't even bring back bad stuff and he said that it was actually a very fun vacation, that he was happy and didn't even realized it.

So, they also need time to reflect on their actions. They are somewhat confused too. They know what they did and sometimes they feel guilty, ashamed but other times they think that if you were a better person, more this or more that, that they wouldn't be in the mess that they are.

You feel the way you feel and you know what is going on in your mind. He also feel stuff, he is also up and down.

He needs to be left alone to look into himself too. One thing that use to bother my XH is that I somehow managed never text, call or ask him for anything.

Every time something happen, was because he came to my house, or sent me a text. The bad side on that is that he knows me well, he knew what bottoms to push and I fell for it and reacted to his provocations.

But I have been learning to guard myself better and show him I am moving foward with my life.

It hurts, I know. I worked very hard too. I gave up my life, my family, my good career, everything for this man. I followed him, made a home for him to come back everyday and then he gave it all up, fell for a coworker.

It's very hard to look at all that and accept that the old marriage is dead, but it is and your only chance is to get out of the torment of all this destruction and start setting yourself for war.

The early you get it, better are your chances to get what you are looking for.

Focus on what you can improve in yourself. Start on the outside to get some self confidence, I changed my hair color, lost a lot of weight. I know I look better and I drive him crazy.

Then, are you seeing an IC to help you to cope with your desperation and your broken heart? I got an IC that worked even in other areas of my life, I got into a divorce support group and started going out with them, got myself into a gym and exercised a lot to feel better, I got into a bible school, changed religion, drove all east coast with my kids during a long vacation.

Are you taking any antidepressant, I got a mild one for a year and it helped me big time.

With time it stared showing my X that I was not sitting around waiting for him to feel sorry for me. Then he started questioning himself what he did too.

And with time you feel stronger, more confident and of course more attractive.

It's not a game, but it's the way human beings respond romantically.

Try to remember why he fell in love with you in the first place. Where is that woman? Can you be more like that lady that drove him crazy?

I know it is difficult, and I would like to be there to cry with you. I still cry a lot. But now I soak my pillow and talk to God to ask for strenght to endure the battle.

But you will find strenght you didn't even know you had. Things go around and come around. Help yourself, you will feel better, I know you will.

Did you wrote a list of your goals, even small ones for now? It helps, because it is not only detaching from your H. It's detaching from your marriage, your routine, your habits beside him, your role as wife. It's very overwhelming.

It helps to create a list because you start focusing better. Stop being sad sometimes and start thinking what you will start doing, what will give you a chance to reconcile.

Remember that what seems wrong, will probably be the right thing to do. It seems that following the DB rules will drive him away, but it actually works to get their attention first, and then their curiosity, sometimes even their anger and frustration. But it works. Think about.

What about writing us what are your plans?

Love and lots of hugs. God bless you!!!
Tita

Hi Skm, Pink is really giving sound advice above and also I truly understand your sense of disbelief. I'm sure many of us have shared that. The thing to know is that this is all really about HIM. Yes, I'm sure your marriage wasn't perfect and there were ways in which we could all have been better spouses. But it may well have been good - and yet he has decided to leave at least for now. He may decide to return at some point or he may not - the outcome is unknown at this point.

You say you are struggling to detach and I think Pink is spot on with what she says. I can recall V once posting that it is less about detaching from your spouse (ie: still all about them) and more about re-attaching to your own life (ie: sidelining them and all about you.) This may feel counter intuitive, but that's what DBing is.

So, I agree that it would be good to see some early goals from you. In all this mayhem (and putting your H to one side just now) what are you going to do for yourself? How are you going to work towards starting the healing process? What things will you do to soothe yourself. How will you get out and about and interacting with others? What new things will you learn. How will you reclaim yourself and your life?

This isn't giving up on your marriage - it is letting go whilst remaining willing to stand for your marriage without putting your own life on hold. Truly, you won't have regrets if you take this path....

:)x

SKM

also one more thing if you can't detach just for today accept it
embrace it whatever the feeling is
we would toward detaching and letting go
it is a process, sometimes with many curves and loops many pains and griefs

this process of DB will get us there and to a place of no regrets

Pink, Sotto and peacetoday thank you so much for all of your words. It really does mean so much to me that you all are here to support me and to help me during all of this.

Pink.....I have to say after reading what you said to me I could feel that you understand my pain, and what I am feeling right now.

I so want to detach from the old marriage and my H and what used to be, and re-attach to something new in my life. But honestly there is a huge amount of fear that if I do that it means I have given up. I am not a person who gives up. In my mind my H gave up and walked away and I just cant do that.

When I kicked him out of the house after the BD, I did that so I could have some time to think about what I/we were going to do next. Never did I think he would take that as an opportunity to never come back.

I am leaving my H alone and have gone NC. I have not reached out to him in a while. I don't send him texts or emails or call him. We do not have children so there really is no need for us to communicate frequently. There are things that need to be discussed but he has shown me in the past that he doesn't know how to deal with all of this, so he just doesn't answer me if I do try to communicate with him. My hope is that he is taking this time to work on himself, but I know this man and he is very good at not dealing with things. He doesn't want to have to look in the mirror because he will not like what he sees.

I have started to do things for myself. I lost close to 30 lbs as a result of dealing with all of this. I have started to work out and I really am trying to take better care of myself. Eating is my hardest thing. I have no appetite.

I stopped seeing my IC because he had a different thought process about what he thinks I should do. He has never come out and told me that I should file for D, but he has told me that I am going to be waiting around a long time if I think H is going to come around.

I am taking antidepressants. I previously was taking them but weaned myself off, but have recently started taking them again because I could feel the depression worsening.

I try not to replay all of the terrible things he said to me. How he "didn't love me the last 3 years of our marriage" and how it was my fault he cheated because I "didn't love or need him enough" or that I was "too controlling." I do agree that I am a controlling person. I guess that is why all of this is so hard. I am learning to let go of that and am finding out that it is freeing.

Sotto.....my goal is going to be to try and put my H and what used to be aside, and start to make decisions based on me instead.

peacetoday.....I hope you are right when you say "this process of DB will get us there and to a place of no regrets"

I really want to get to that place. I am tired of crying and being sad. I really want to learn to not be so hard on myself too. People around me tell me that I am stronger then I think.

Whenever I am speaking to one of my patients in the hospital I say to them "slow and steady wins the race, and this is not a sprint, it's a marathon." I guess I need to start reminding myself of that too.

Hi Skm, it's great to have a goal - but while that goal is about leaving him to one side, it's still about him.

Maybe have a think about some other things you want to do - Just as an example:

I want to learn to dance in 2017 - general goal

Specific goal for March - I'm going to decide what kind of dance, find a class and go along to my first lesson.

This can translate into so many areas - learning a language, taking up yoga - or whatever you may want to do.

But most importantly, it has nothing to do with your H and everything about you and how you want your life to be going forwards - regardless of the outcome.

Also, please don't feel you are walking away from your marriage. If and when your H raises this with you, you can clearly tell him that you love him and would like to work on the marriage - but until or unless he does, I think you are right to leave him be

:)x

Hi skm, wow... loved to read your last post. And I think you are doing what you can at the moment.

It's so hard to swollen the whole thing. There is an empty hole inside of us. It's a constant pain that never goes away.

BUT, and there is a big but, as much as you would like to wake up the next day and find out that you just had your worst nightmare, it is not, and won't happen that way.

In my case, time and a collection of mistakes, made me look at the DB with more attention, and made me listen to some posters with more experience.

Many times I wanted to hear that there is a method that will make my XH to want to work on us for sure. I was looking for some magical process that would just happen and things would be put into the right place very fast.

Unfortunately, I got to the conclusion that such thing doesn't exist and some things may be or may never be resolved.

It's a heart breaking event that won't be erased from my life ever. It can be put in one small place inside of me, but it won't be erased ever.

So, after so long time, I come to the conclusion that "MY PAIN" can be managed by my actions and reactions. I control it even when I think I don't have any control on the outcome.

I am finally accepting that I need to look into myself and do what I want for myself. Amazing as it seems, I found out that I really want this independent if XH comes back or not, or even if there is another person in my life.

Now, I want my decisions and changes to be for myself and the more I do it, the better I feel.

Now, I look back and feel silly. I see that if I had listen to the advices here, I would be feeling much better a year ago or so.

But it is OK, maybe I wasn't ready to accept what I can't change, to make peace with someone's decisions and really, truly accept that it happen and won't change ever.

If one day we cross our lives, then it will be another R, it won't ever be the same again.

Just remember that everything will happen in your own time. You will hear many advices that make perfect sense and yet you will only accept them when you are ready. Give yourself that time, look into yourself and start searching for who you are now.

We all change, we all mature... so work on yourself to be better for "YOU". And give yourself a break every day. Allow yourself to be weak when you are alone, to cry when you feel lonely, to make mistakes when you can't take the pressure. It's all part of the process to get to a place where you will feel the need to live your own life independent of what happen on the sidelines.

And if one day your H decides to turn his head, he will be amazed of the person you are.

I hope you are well as you can be at this time. Hope you treat yourself with lots of patience too and care a lot after your health and well being.

There is a lot more to come, so keep your body healthy.

And, as Sotto mention above. I would like to hear some of your personal goals. You really need them even if you don't feel like it. Sometimes, I wanted to put myself in a cave and come out after 5years, but I forced myself to do things and I feel better now and it took me only 2years, so it is less time suffering, haha.

((((((((((skm))))))))))

Tita

Pink.....thank you for taking time to "speak" to me. I know that you truly care about me and my overall well being, it shows in your responses.

Not much is going on lately, just work. Today I have gotten some "chores" done around the house which needed to be done....not fun, but had to get finished.

I've been reading some of the previous posts from the vets and they keep saying the same thing......
-focus on me
-take care of the person that matters most..me
-stop beating myself up
-be kind to myself
Not really sure why all of this is so difficult? But, I do know that it is becoming easier to do some of those things.

I've had some sad moments this weekend, which isn't unusual for me. One thing I've been thinking about is H is attending something called Landmark Forum this weekend. It is an intensive 3 day workshop on how to communicate better, and learn how to relate better to those around you. It is supposed to force the participant to reflect on and examine his or her life in an effort to make positive changes.

I mentioned this to my IC, who had previously done the forum, and he mentioned that one part asks the participants to make a phone call to someone to redefine what�s possible in a relationship where they are struggling. He said I should "expect" a phone call from H.

Well...the 3 days of the forum are almost over and I never received this phone call. Now, I know I am not supposed to have any expectations of my H, but I guess I did. Honestly I did expect a phone call from him. So the fact that I did not get one is upsetting. I was really hoping this would be the start of some kind of communication between us

What this says to me is that I STILL have A LOT of work to do. Clearly I have not detached or let go, and that my life is still being controlled by his choices and decisions.

Where is my friend SkyHigh? Hope you are doing good and that your piecing continues to go well

Hard not to expect that phone call...I think we all would...don't beat yourself up too much...why did your H go?

Hey Gordie....

To be honest I don't really know why he chose to go. I can only hope it was to make himself a better person. I only found out that he was going because a receipt was left in his vehicle and I saw it the last time I saw him in November.

I really hope there are some lasting effects from everything he learned.

Hard to not expect or want something--understandable-you were together a. long time

hard to keep all expectations at zero

Ive heard of that program and it is supposed to be very good

Hopefully it can help him and you never know what can happen
MLC takes time so it may be a while
yes the focus has to be on you
taking care of you
creating a life
grieving/crying /talking/healing
take your time
be gentle
you deserve that
time will definitely heal you and maybe you will see a shift in him eventually

So......I'm sitting in my car at Walgreens aabout to drive off and the phone rings and it's my H. I almost did not answer it. He has not initiated any kind of communication since....well, I can't really remember when he has???

Now is this the phone call I was hoping for after his intense weekend, or is this coincidence? I did text him earlier to let him know that the car insurance premium would be changing because I bought a new car today

. A little gift to myself

I tried to act like "oh, hey what's up" when I started talking....I'm sure it was obvious I was doing that. He acknowledged my text, which he hasn't done in a very long time. He asked if I was at work, and of course I wasn't. He said he wanted to talk to me and wondered if I had time. I told him I was about to take the dogs out, but when ever I got to a place where I was free I would let him know. He said he was driving home so when I got a chance to let him know.

I got home and started learning about all the new and cool things on my car. Trying to occupy my mind. The more I started to think about him calling the more worked up I got. I was angry because I have been trying to speak to this man for months and NOTHING. No acknowledgement of texts or phone calls, he usually didnt even answer his phone if I called. And now that I have made no effort to communicate with him he is wanting to talk, and I am supposed to drop everything?

I ended up texting him later and telling him I was still out with the dogs and asked if we could speak another time? He responded by saying......

"Yes that's cool. I would like to talk soon though

Let me know when you can talk. Hope you all enjoy the walk, and that the dogs are doing good. Then he said "congratulations on your new wheels."

So of course my head is spinning. Why is he calling? What does he want? Is he only calling cause of that weekend retreat he did? Is he calling to tell me he has filed for D? Is he calling to tell me he has a girlfriend?

The other thing that crossed my mind was this retreat thing has a graduation on Tuesday night, and the ones who participated are encouraged to call people to get them to go to a seminar about the program so they can sign up. Is that why he is calling?

I am working the next 2 days and I am already having a hard enough time concentrating as it is, the last thing I need is to speak to him about some retreat.

What is a girl to do??? I am open to suggestions.

Okay, first thing...stop the mind reading and over analyzing the call. Maybe he just wants to tell you about the seminar...but you won't know what the conversation is about until you talk to him. So, let him now when you have time to sit down and listen to what he has to say.

Keep your focus on you and, of course, your new car.

Stop the mind reading, the best way to know what he wants is to talk to him.

So text him to set up a date where you are available (keep it simple), make sure you are not too exhausted at that time. Keep your expectations very low or better to none.

Get ready mentally, reread the thread on Detachment, and whatever he is going to say, keep your calm (talk to yourself mentally), don't spew, don't using any offensive words at all, keep control of yourself, don't ask him any personal questions, let him doing the talking, don't try to advance or talk about issues that's not the time for it and anyway he won't answer you most probably and will get upset.

Basically, let him talk and just listen while trying to control your mind and validate, validate doesn't mean you agree it means that you show some kind of empathy, it will help him to keep talking.

By doing that it doesn't mean you are acting as a doormat, not at all, it means you are trying to keep that door open for other future conversations.

Even if he says something offensive, stay calm, MLCers like to push our buttons a lot, so don't play any of his games if he tries any of them. Keep in mind what used to set you up and don't fall for it this time.

That's the time to show him that you changed, that's you are not the overreactive person you used to be and also somehow you are detached now, that's you are moving with your life, congratulations for the new car. You want him to become the pursuer if that's want you would like.

Dealing with a MLCer is like a game, you need to have a strategy.

Believe in yourself, show him what he is missing. Good luck!

Thank you all for the responses....

So as suspected I have not heard back from H. I had to work yesterday and it was very busy at the hospital. I did send him a text apologizing to him for getting back so late, and that work was really busy. Never heard from him.

I am not going to reach out to him. If he wants to speak to me then he will try to get a hold of me.

What this tells me is that the only reason he wanted to speak to me was because he was trying to recruit me to go to the graduation and sign up for the forum. I'm not interested in doing that.

Something else I forgot to mention was while I was at work yesterday I was looking out the window at the parking lot where I park and I saw my husband drive by. Now, there is absolutely no reason for him to come to the hospital. And he doesn't live anywhere near the hospital.

I found it odd that he did that. Not going to try and mind read but is he seeing if I am at work? Is he trying to see if I did in fact by a new car so now he knows what I am driving (I park in the same spot every time I am at work).

Most probably checking on you.
Since you are not in "such in a hurry" to contact him, he might start to be curious about your new life. That's a hypothesis.

Originally Posted By: skyhigh

I love this advice!

Hey Skyhigh .... thank you for your insight.

You know how you should go with your gut on certain things, well that's what I'm doing. I feel pretty certain that he only called to get me to go to that forum. If he really wanted to speak to me, like he said he did, then he would have responded to my text.

And the marathon continues.

Hope things are going well at your end of the world

good to follow your gut

I have a friend who did the class and yes there is a big push to get others to come to graduation

Does he have any family that would go?

He may also
need to speak with you also to clear something
time will tell
I agree with you he will reach out if he needs to or else maybe better to let it go

sometimes I think they reach out maybe they need to connect for a moment but it soon fades because they are not ready or it is too hard for them

I believe my xh would like to clear the air and put things in order with me and the kids, but he lacks courage to do what it takes
better to take a step back and refocus on yourself
next time he calls , if you have it in you you can listen to what he wants

So today is H birthday. I don't think I will send him a text or email. I did send him a birthday card from the dogs

Nothing much going on here. I still have not heard back from H after I sent him a text on Tuesday. I just wish he would have never called me because all it did was upset me. Is that what he was trying to do? Why would he say that he really wanted to speak to me and when I try to reach out to him NOTHING. I just don't understand it?

I have since learned that he has been spending time with a woman who is going through a divorce. She is a bit older then H and has 2 kids in their 20s. I do know that long ago this woman's husband cheated on her and she stayed with him. Not sure the circumstances now why they are getting divorced. H has always reached out to women when he needs support. When I kicked him out of the house he had several women that he was "talking to" about out situation. I used to tell him that's what got us in this predicament in the first place....him talking to other women about us instead of him talking to me.

peacetoday.....I agree with you about them not having the courage to do what it takes. They really don't know how much that would mean to us.

As far as H and family. He is originally from England (but lives in the states) so all of his family are still living there. His parents visit frequently (almost to a fault)

Trying to keep on moving forward.

Needing to vent and not make a phone call I will regret!!!!

So today is H birthday and he posted a photo of a piece of cake with a candle with two forks saying "happy birthday to me"...it looked a bit intimate too. Trying not to call him and tell him how disrespectful it is to post photos like that clearly of him with another woman who is NOT his wife!!!!!!

God help me!!!!!!

I really don't know what to tell you!
That's a total lack of respect for you, I share your anger and totally understand you need to vent. Usually I don't use bad words, but right now a bunch of them as filling my mind.
Don't contact him, don't make his day even better!

Glad you came here instead of calling/texting. I'm sorry that happened to you. He certainly isn't thinking of anyone but himself.

He is the poster child for MLC right now, he has no empathy at all for you.
I know how tough it might be for you right now not to let him know your thoughts. You must be boiling in the inside.
Write down your anger and thoughts on a paper, it might help you to calm down.

This is going to be long, so brace yourselves.......

I had a pretty intense emotional conversation with a longtime friend yesterday about what has been going on in my life. She said she felt like H was being cruel to me by continuing to do what he is doing (ignoring me, not answering phone calls or text messages). We spoke further about expectations and moving forward. I of course cried for quite a while after that, but then I took some time to chill out and walk the dogs, then I decided to call my H. I did read the detachment post before I called, and also read what Skyhigh and others have mentioned I should when I did eventually speak to him. I also wrote down on a sticky note "stay calm, validate, don't raise your voice, dont swear"

I had a conversation with him that I have never had with him before. I asked him why he never called me back, especially when he said he really wanted to talk to me. His answer was the most honest answer he has ever given me in the last 11 years. He said because he was trying to find the courage to call me back. He also said that he has been lacking in responsibility when it comes to communicating with me.

I continued to listen to him, and as I did that he opened up like a book (I had to write things down because he was saying so much). He said after attending that forum he learned that his life or his reality has not been driven from his own thoughts. He said he learned that his reality has been determined by a story that was learned due to something that happened in his past, and he has continued to believe that story and has continued to live in that reality. He also said when we are able to separate what actually happened from the story we learn we find that our reality may not actually be that way. I had to think about that for a bit after hearing it. I can only assume that this is some lingo that was used in the forum, because H does not speak like that normally.

But, what he said to me was that he finally "gets it" and that he has seen the error of his ways. He mentioned several times that he has lacked courage to do the right thing.

He acknowledged that he had a lack of communication in our marriage, and that he was not able to discuss his emotions or feelings, and now knows that contributed to a lot of the issues we had.

He talked about being authentic and wanting to have integrity. He spoke about not just saying something but also following through with it.

He talked about not acknowledging me when I would speak to him, or how he would ignore me because he was on his cell phone or social media.

He realized that he had been living his life and making decisions on how others would respond, or what they would think about him after making his choices. THAT IS HUGE FOR HIM!!! A big issue for me was that he would make the decision to go and be with other people, only wear certain clothes or drive a certain vehicle so that he could tell people he worked out with "so and so", or he wore this label, or drove that kind of car.

He has said that he never really thought that his parents had control or manipulated his thoughts or decisions, but now he does question that. That is also HUGE for him to say. During our M, he liked to speak to his parents first before making certain decisions and that was a big issue for me. They would arrange to come over for a visit and not even ask us first if it was okay. I would ask him to speak to them about it and he was too scared to do that. He still has a parent-child relationship with them today and he is a 44 year old man.

But, the big thing is that he FINALLY apologized to me for the affair, how he treated me during certain times in our marriage and has treated me since.

Prior to calling him I told myself that I would not discuss our R, but of course you know I had to backslide

I told him that I felt abandoned by him, and that I still love him and don't know how to turn that off because when I married him it was going to be forever, no matter what. D was not an option for me.

I acknowledged my faults in the marriage, my need to want to control him and almost every situation and that I could have been a better wife. But I did tell him that did not excuse him or give him the right to have an A (he agreed). I also apologized that he felt like he could not speak to me about how he was feeling in our M, and that is what ultimately lead him to have the A. He said that the A was a "symptom" of what was really going on. I told him that he didn't give me a chance to make things better between us.....he just left.

Divorce was never brought up or discussed, neither was the future of our relationship. He said he is continuing to do more classes through this forum for the next 10 weeks, and that he hopes he can continue to learn and grow from it. We both acknowledged that we never discussed what happened, and that we really need to do that.

One sad part of the discussion for me was that he said he doesn't really think about the A, doesn't really have shame or guilt like he used to, and that he doesn't really ever think about me. He still relates to me in a negative way when he speaks about me...which he says he rarely does. He said "out of sight, out of mind." OUCH.....that hurt.

He wanted to make sure that I knew he did not have a girlfriend, and that he is not spending time with anyone in that capacity. I asked him where he keeps his wedding ring and he said in his bathroom on the counter where he can see it.

So now I move forward and continue to try and detach and GAL.

skm,

Well that was quite a conversation. Rather than commenting on all the many parts of it, let me ask you this:

what was your goal when you called?

25yearsmlc....my goal initially was to ask him why he never returned my call when he was the one who said he really wanted to speak to me, and also to find out what he wanted to talk about. But honestly I was also hoping that some issues could be spoken about like why he was still ignoring texts or phone calls.

I never expected to have the conversation we had.

Wow. That is amazing. Thank you for sharing. You are doing great. I am glad your H opened up to you and he is trying to fix some of his issues. I am rooting for you.

Gordie.....thanks for the support

I never anticipated that the conversation would go that way. I am very pleasantly surprised by his honesty. For me that says a lot about him and what he is wanting to do in his life. But something I am struggling with after the conversation is.....is all of this to make him feel better or is this to help me?

I was also proud of myself because I did validate him quite often....something I never was good at. I told him I was proud of him, and that I could see that he was making positive changes based on what he was saying and his overall tone.

I am REALLY trying not to have any expectations of him at all, but gosh it is hard not to. Don't want to set myself up for hurt

Originally Posted By: skm0619

Gordie.....thanks for the support

I never anticipated that the conversation would go that way. I am very pleasantly surprised by his honesty. For me that says a lot about him and what he is wanting to do in his life.

Agreed

But something I am struggling with after the conversation is.....is all of this to make him feel better or is this to help me?

Sounds as if he's working on his life, what makes him happy, what motivates his choices, etc.

Not sure it had anything to do with you or the marriage, directly. Obviously there are effects on you. To be clear, I think personal growth is always a great thing.

You said he claimed to want to talk to you
But in the end, You called him. So what he said and what he did - were not in alignment.

I guess You need to ask yourself If it's his words you need to hear, or his actions you need to see.

I was also proud of myself because I did validate him quite often....something I never was good at. I told him I was proud of him, and that I could see that he was making positive changes based on what he was saying and his overall tone.

I am REALLY trying not to have any expectations of him at all, but gosh it is hard not to. Don't want to set myself up for hurt

It's always a good idea to have zero expectations. I cannot stress this enough.

It's excellent that your interactions were different, and that's b/c you validated him. Maybe he was reacting to that, or maybe not.

I don't know how the conversation ended. I just got a sense from your coverage of it, that MAYBE he said enough (a lot for him) to feel a sense of closure? That might explain him needing "courage" to call in the first place.

From your posts, it sounds as if detachment isn't what you are seeking so much as reassurance that he will return to you.

I can only say that detachment does not prevent reconciliation. If anything, it helps. But regardless, it is key to both results - recon OR living well on your own. In the event your h ever reaches out to you, you can discuss something new, different and unemotional with him.

By detaching, you grow much more than you would if you were waiting around for him to return. Otherwise, It'd be like standing in place while life passes you by.

So it makes you happier to GAL and detach, no matter what HE does.
Paradoxically, detachment and becoming happy also happens to make you more likely to attract him back.

Not saying to GAL and Detach with the goal of a reconciliation, b/c true detachment is not result oriented. I am saying that regardless of how you feel, you need to follow through with the DB basics.

IF you imagine that your h was transferred to Antartica and was truly unreachable for the next year, imagine how you would spend the year. You would not hinder down waiting...

So, What are you doing that is new or different, than before? You can join something, volunteer somewhere, study something you always wanted to study, etc. I think you said you are planning a trip to Italy this fall?

That just sounds lovely.

25yearsmlc.......I appreciate you taking the time to give me your thoughts on my sitch.

I do agree with a lot of what you have said. The most important thing is that he is finding out that he needs to make some changes in his life and is doing that. That is a major thing for him to pursue, so I am proud of him. I also feel that we were both able to show our flaws to each other and we have not done that in a long time.

What I meant when I made the comment "was this all for him, or was it to help me" was did he tell me all of that to get things off his chest, or was it also to help me in my healing as well? I got the sense that it was both, but I just wasn't sure.

He said that during the forum he listened to people tell their "story" and he could relate to a lot of what was being said. He said it made him think about how he treated me during our marriage and after the BD. He wanted to call me on a break but didn't want to limit the time for our conversation, because he felt like it was the most important call that needed to be made, and that is why he waited to call me until the 3 days were over.

He said on a few different occasions that I was right about things I have said in the past. I told him I didn't want to be right, I just wanted things better between us. But he made sure to tell me "you were right."

He called me initially to talk and I told him I would call him back, but honestly I wasn't ready for the conversation. I texted him the next day but never got a response, so I called him. Looking back I probably should not have done that, but I was interested in what he had to say. In the conversation he did mention that me not calling him back that night was upsetting to him and he lost some momentum to call me again, and that was why he didn't call me back.

At the end of the conversation we both acknowledged that we still needed to talk about how things got to where they did in our M, and why the A happened. We also said we needed to have a conversation about where we go from here. He did say he would call me, but as we have seen in the past he has not been the greatest with that. But I am going to be open and give him the chance to show me that he is making changes. I am also going to be patient, which will be hard. But, he deserves this time for himself.

I would not be telling the truth if I said that my attempts at detaching or GAL was not to get him to come back home...because there is part of me that hopes that if I do he will. But, the rationale side of my brain says that wont work, and obviously is not the purpose for DBing. This is something I struggle with daily.

I totally agree with you when you said I need to stick with the DB basics. I actually have started to reread the book again back. I am ready to get my "happy" back again.

That was a great example about Antarctica, and what would I do if he was unreachable.

Lovely to see 25yearsmlc posting again - she is one of our wisest vets and was an inspiration to me on moving forward with my own life and rediscovering myself.

Okay - what has happened has happened and your H has shared some things. He is on a journey right now - and in many ways a positive one. Better to be looking at inward stuff than 'running' from yourself (ie: by having an A or whatever..)

However, he is also not saying positive stuff about the M right now and he doesn't sound to be in a place where he's considering reconciliation right now - that could change of course.

Your own desperate need for reassurance is what led you to prompt the contact I think. And that is something important to own and deal with. Why do I need this man so much? Am I okay alone for now? How can I make this okay for me - however things may unfold?

In your posts, your focus is all on your H - and it really does need to be on you. I promise you that if you can leave him be for now, and put your energy into your own life - it will serve you well, no matter how things unfold with your M.

In 25yearsmlc's case, she and her H were S for 2.5 years and she very much rebuilt her life, extending outside her comfort zone, building her confidence and living independently.

Apart from helping you see there is a good life beyond this marriage - it also helps adjust the power balance - ie: you have a good life anyway - and are not desperate to get back together at any cost.

So, what I'd really like you to do is outline some key goals just for you for 2017 and some early steps you're going to take towards these. And the goals should be all about you and the life you want to live going forward independent of your H - of course he may decide he wants to join the party again at some point..and that's up to him - and would be up to you too, if that happens..

Good luck with everything Skm...

Originally Posted By: skm0619

25yearsmlc.......I appreciate you taking the time to give me your thoughts on my sitch.

You're truly welcome.

I do agree with a lot of what you have said. The most important thing is that he is finding out that he needs to make some changes in his life and is doing that. That is a major thing for him to pursue, so I am proud of him. I also feel that we were both able to show our flaws to each other and we have not done that in a long time.

What I meant when I made the comment "was this all for him, or was it to help me" was did he tell me all of that to get things off his chest, or was it also to help me in my healing as well? I got the sense that it was both, but I just wasn't sure.

If it helps you heal, then so be it. Does it have to be his intention? I guess I don't understand that.

He said that during the forum he listened to people tell their "story" and he could relate to a lot of what was being said. He said it made him think about how he treated me during our marriage and after the BD. He wanted to call me on a break but didn't want to limit the time for our conversation, because he felt like it was the most important call that needed to be made, and that is why he waited to call me until the 3 days were over.

But to be clear, you did call him and you did ask him why he had not called you, correct? Perhaps next time you can let him initiate b/c the way it reads to me, is that he could have felt immediately defensive if the first thing out of your mouth was a "why didn't you" type of remark.

Btw, A wonderful DB coach told me to avoid questions like "How could you...?" and "Why?" in general. They tend to elicit defensive reactions.

He said on a few different occasions that I was right about things I have said in the past. I told him I didn't want to be right, I just wanted things better between us. But he made sure to tell me "you were right."

He called me initially to talk and I told him I would call him back, but honestly I wasn't ready for the conversation. I texted him the next day but never got a response, so I called him. Looking back I probably should not have done that, but I was interested in what he had to say. In the conversation he did mention that me not calling him back that night was upsetting to him and he lost some momentum to call me again, and that was why he didn't call me back.

At the end of the conversation we both acknowledged that we still needed to talk about how things got to where they did in our M, and why the A happened.

Be careful what you wish for.

If he regrets it and knows you are very hurt, and promises not to do it again and whatever else the experts suggest, perhaps that can be enough. Perhaps the real work then is on your end, letting it go. Never holding it over his head like the sword of Damocles and not throwing it in his face when you two argue.

So be careful about digging into all the gritty details unless you are SURE you can handle them. I just don't see a lot of "good" answers. "She was prettier/nicer/younger/more adoring" or "I was mad at you", etc....how will you feel if any of those come up as the reason? Plus, please do not involve his parents. I may have confused your story but did you tell his parents? Just saying then the dynamic he has with them ends up being a factor in your marriage and not a good one.

Or the "I don't know why..."? Maybe it's not about what happened but where you go "From this day forward"...

We also said we needed to have a conversation about where we go from here. He did say he would call me, but as we have seen in the past he has not been the greatest with that.

then perhaps a long in depth conversation he's never had before with you, was quite enough for now. I would not expect him to call soon. He's processing a lot and I would not call him either, if I were you. Better to GAL and detach and back off, to see him when he's ready, than to push and push him away "but sooner".

Here is a quote I found somewhere that seems apropos.

You are trying to guess or forecast the outcome...because it's uncertain.
It's because it IS uncertain.

let it be uncertain.

Don't ask, you may confirm things for him. STFU.

Switch off, detach from the outcome.

Let it unfold

Another quote stolen elsewhere here.

We often are so eager to know the outcome now and eliminate ambiguity and uncertainty. Pushing for certainty will most often result in pushing WAS away and towards being certain they want out.

But I am going to be open and give him the chance to show me that he is making changes. I am also going to be patient, which will be hard. But, he deserves this time for himself.
[color:#3366FF]
How about "I am going to use this gift of time to work on ME"?

You're in his sandbox and he's working in it right now. Perhaps you have a sandbox of your own that you could be working on.

If he wants to change then he will. The question is whether you will react in the same way without checking him first.

I know it's hard. The temperature taking and the guesswork, but it's SO UNHELPFUL.

please stay in your emotional sandbox and work on you.

[/color]

I would not be telling the truth if I said that my attempts at detaching or GAL was not to get him to come back home...because there is part of me that hopes that if I do he will.

But, the rationale side of my brain says that wont work, and obviously is not the purpose for DBing. This is something I struggle with daily.

I totally agree with you when you said I need to stick with the DB basics. I actually have started to reread the book again back. I am ready to get my "happy" back again.

That was a great example about Antarctica, and what would I do if he was unreachable.

Skm, wow you did great! You showed him that you changed.

Don't be upset by his comments on how are his views on you right now, he is still in full replay. My WH used to be quite "mean" too, so I know how hurtful it can be which is not the case anymore but it took a while to reach that point, so be patient, remember MLC is a journey, it takes years from start to finish.

So proud of you. Confrontation never works with a MLCer but listening and validating can go a long way. Now, please don't wait for his next call/message, open yourself to the world and start something that can bring you some happiness a.k.a. GAL.

Meanwhile keep working on you, detach +++, when you detach you lessen your emotional pain and also the tension between the LBS and the WH. It's like wrapping your heart with bubble wrap, it absorbs the shock of their insanity before it hits you. Detachment doesn't mean you don't have feeling anymore for him but it means that you don't let his negative feelings/comments/sarcasms... to bring you down.
Next reading I might suggest is the thread on pursuit and distance. That's also something I did.

25yearsMLC is so right on target with her advice.

Sotto, skyhigh, 25yearsmlc ...... thank you for all of your comments and opinions. I am so very thankful for this place

I made sure to read the detachment thread and all of the comments that everyone made to me about when we did have the conversation, and it really helped me to stay calm.

Sotto....you are right when you say it was my need for reassurance. I know I don't need him in my life I WANT him in it, but I cant just sit around and wait. I have lived by myself and supported myself through all of this so I know I can do it. I have made a promise to myself that I would leave him alone and focus on me.

25yearsmlc....as far as us needing to have a conversation was about us needing to discuss why the A happened, how we got to that point. But I also need to think if it is really that important to see where we used to be instead of trying to move forward.

Unfortunately we have already had the painful gritty conversation about what happened during the A and all of those painful details. I just had to know certain things and now I regret it because I have those images in my head. I would tell people not to have that conversation....it does no good.

Skyhigh....I remember you telling me that if I just listened he would keep talking and that is what he did. I am going to read the pursuit and distance thread again.

Not going to lie, it did hurt me a lot when he said those mean things to me

But I cant let that stop me from trying to move forward, or to dwell on them.

One day at a time.....

Not much really going on here, just thought I would journal a bit.

I was looking through my car today and came across where I had put all of my CDs. I was looking through them and found one that my H made me before we got married. I did the worst thing I could do.....I put it in the player and listened to it.

I have not cried like that in a long time

It was full of songs that were talking about falling in love, being in love, making a life together, etc. It made me feel like a terrible person.

He really put his heart out there when he made that CD for me. It made me think....."why did I treat him the way I did?" I have owned up to my mistakes in the marriage. Yes I could have been more affectionate, yes I know I could have been a better wife to him. I messed up and now I am paying for it big time.

He was always trying to give me affection and sometimes I would turn away from him. He told me he loved me everyday. When I would tell him I loved him first his face would light up and he would say "that makes me so happy to hear you say that." How could I have treated him that way? How could I not see that all this man wanted was for me to love him. No wonder he looked for affection/words of affirmation from someone else. The one person he wanted it from the most would not give it to him.

I have not spoken to him since our last conversation where he acknowledged the mistakes he made in our marriage. How he was learning to work on himself. How he doesn't think about the A, or have guilt or shame like he used to. How he doesn't think about me.

Why the H*LL did I have to listen to that CD?

(((HUGS)))
Memories... triggers...sadness...
May be listening to this CD was a good/painful thing, even if it hurts, it seems it brought you back in the past and helped you to review some events under a different angle.
Now you are more aware of them, even if you are mad a yourself it can actually help you to have a better understanding on what's going on in his mind.

Now I am going to give you the advice I have been giving to my kids since they have been very young:
Nothing is set in stone.
Nothing is done until it's fully done.
Take a big breath, use your brain, analyze and come up with a plan.
It means even if the situation looks really bad, do not give up.

Don't take his words for what they are, remember MLCers are lost... I know it hurts like hell, but they are just words. Like you I was so hurt when he used to tell me that he didn't regret his A at the beginning, but now I can see it was just part of the whole MLC thing. Now he is the one doing the pursuing... and cannot remember saying those hurtful words...
So take a big breath, and think what you can do to keep that door open. I might be wrong but your husband might be from what you are describing in the beginning of the depression/withdrawal phase, so any R talks are totally out of question. Position yourself more as a friend to him rather than a lover, somebody he can talk to when he feels to, that period can last 6 months to 18 months. During that period MLCers are still very touchy, so no talks about the past or R, it makes them going backward. I know how unfair it is, they are the ones hurting us but we are still to have to do the heavy lifting.

It seems that your husband craves words of affirmation and affection, may be you can send him some "friendly only" messages to encourage him to stay in contact with you, apparently you said that "you turned him down and were not affectionate enough".

Keep your messages simple/friendly/warm nothing emotional or negative, keep them very short: Good morning...Going to the museum today/gym...Hope you are doing fine... Have a nice day... Going for a walk with the dogs, do you want to join me.. Pictures of the dogs... Send one message a day for 3 days then stop for 2 days and start again.

You might also if feel comfortable enough, ask him to have lunch/dinner together... or going to an event..

The goal is to keep the door open but not to be too pushy and looking like being a pursuer, this is a very fine line to walk on.

Keep journaling, venting it helps to sort out feelings.
Meanwhile, detach+++

(((Skm))) hugs to you my dear. I really like the advice and support you are getting. These are some awesome people here! The vets that have survived this journey know what they are talking about--even if it hurts, trust them and give it a try.

I am actually glad you listened to the cd. Sometimes a good old fashioned ugly cry can be so cathartic! And now you can check that off your to-do list and just toss it in the trash. Why? Because it won't serve you anymore. It's like cleaning out a closet--it's hard to throw things away, but it feels good later. Then you can dust off your hands and keep on keeping on. Most importantly, it got you thinking.

You have listed some mistakes you made and things you can change. Good for you! This is a great start. I am working on this too. It's what we are all advising you to do--focus on you, what can you change, how can you do it, and then you can savor in those feelings of confidence. All of this is in YOUR control. As you master this, you will slowly start to detach. You don't have to feel terrible and have regrets--that won't serve you--but you CAN think about how to make those changes moving forward in all your Rs.

As you detach, and as you grow and get stronger, you also increase the odds of attracting him back. So let's start with your list. Can you elaborate on why you did these things and how you can change them moving forward in general, not just relating to him. What 180s and GAL do you want to adopt in your life with or without him?

You are on your way now! One foot in front of the other. Its like weaning from the ventilator with COPD and PNA---there needs to be healing, time, and practice but we will get you extubated eventually!

Blu

With all due respect, I disagree with skyhigh about the messaging--I think at this point it's time to go dark, no contact, and let him come to you. Then if he does, he can see your changes. He knows how you feel already and anything else looks like pursuing. If he doesn't come around, well then his actions are telling you he's not ready to. He may never. You can't know that right now.

Also, if there is any A still, he is not open to you right now. So keep your focus on you and your changes so you can start to detach a bit! It's time to let go of him and find yourself.

Blu

I agree w/BlueWave...go dark. Sending messages of any sort unless it is an absolute emergency or his birthday, could be considered pursuing on his part. He knows you love him, he knows where you are...so sit back, detach and go dark. He needs to pursue you, not the other way around. When he sees you aren't sitting there waiting for him to call or text, that's when his curiosity will get the better of him and he'll contact you. When he does, be friendly, but keep the conversations short and sweet. They can't handle long winded conversations, emails or text messages.

Don't try to rush the process. You're on his time table now and it's a very, very slow one.

I also agree that if he's still in an affair, you are not on his radar. He's all about himself and the ow. Reminding him you are out there w/messages will only make him that more determined to stay away and remain dark w/you.

Pursuing is not pretty, it gives off the feeling of neediness and clinging to someone who doesn't want to be w/you at the moment. Show this man you are a strong, independent woman who can make it on her own. Just remember, the more you push, the harder he's going to pull away and run the other way.

Keep the focus on you and the changes that you are making for yourself. When the time is right he'll contact you...but if he's dark at the moment, then that means he's thinking of something else and doing other things to avoid thinking about you and the situation. Go very dim to the point of dark unless there is an emergency.

Even when my WH was in deep replay, I never closed the door or spewed on him which helped to keep the animosity between us to a relative manageable level, somehow I knew deep down that my words/behavior could be an asset down the road in comparison to OW. The high road was not easy but it made things smoother when piecing started.

I detached, installed boundaries, enforced them and kept the door open. He never left me for the OW1 or OW2, and believe me OW1 was pushing him to leave me and to move away with her, he was totally crazy about her.

The issue with going dark fully might create a sense you don't care anymore, when you don't have kids to stay in contact it is very difficult to create opportunities to show that you have changed or still care.

Being friendly is not pursuing if you do it the right way, it shows that you care but you are still have your own life, it helps also to show him that you are moving on. Remember he left their home almost 18 months ago already... and going dark didn't work at all... so sometimes you need to try something else.

Pursuing is when you beg, cry, try to talk about R or want to talk about the past...

Keeping the door open and being friendly is something else, MlCers are in turmoil and actually they are using OW most of the time as a "soothing tool", so if somehow you can position yourself as a "somebody friendly" it helps them to open to you.

Acts of kindness are very helpful to achieve that (psysara did that and it worked too), when you are not leaving together anymore, the only way to be kind is through "kind/friendly" messages.

I teach teenage boys and I am surrounded by men, and believe me, they crave attention/kindness even if they act tough from the outside and push your buttons as MLCers can do. We are only 35 women among 1100 men/teenage boys.

Whew....I have almost completed day #4 of my 5 (12 hour) shifts at work....one more shift to go

Hopefully I can hang on.

Not really much going on here. Just trying to keep myself busy.

Thank you Skyhigh, Blu and Job for commenting on my last post. I will say that I honestly do have a hard time with the amount of communication I should initiate with my H. Like Skyhigh said I do not have children so there is really not any need to contact him. I think sometimes that is a blessing and a curse. I would love to have communication with him, but then again I need to not make it seem like I am pursing.

Skyhigh.....thank you as always for saying things to make me feel better. I really do try not to take anything that he says to me too personal. But when he makes comments about how he never thinks about me and he doesn't think about the A or how he treated me, it is hard not to. It's as if our M never existed.

He always wanted me to thank him for doing simple things around the house and I just couldn't do it. I think because I didn't need him to tell me thank you for doing things, so why should I tell him thank you. I see now that me doing that was really important to him and he really needed words of affirmation.

As far as what phase he is in, in regard to MLC, I would have no clue. I can say with certainty that he is continuing to struggle financially as he asked me to make some changes to a bill so that he could "get himself in a better financial position." I also think he is doing things to keep himself busy so that he doesn't have to think about what he has done. I know this man and he has ignored, or just forgotten people in his life that were close to him, and has turned his back on past girlfriends when they were asking him for more of his time. He also turned his back on a family member and never thought anything about it. He has no issues with just walking away, so he will have no problem ignoring me and acting like this never happened.

Blu.....I cried really good after listening to that CD, it was awful. I am realizing things I need to work on and it is a daily thing for me. I just am still having a hard time with him living his life and not wanting anything to do with me.

I was revisiting the conversation we had when he apologized for some things, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that he was still blaming me for things, and insinuating I was doing things when I wasn't. At first I thought he was being sincere when he apologized, but now I think he really did it for his benefit and to make himself feel better, and also so he can say "I said I'm sorry and now I'm moving on." That conversation was all about him. He never asked me how I was doing, nor did he ever validate me or what I was saying. To me it still screamed of selfishness.

As the NP in the ICU, I have to have many difficult conversations with patients and family members. Some of the time I can hear what I am saying and think to myself "you should be telling yourself some of the same things." I guess the saying "easier said then done" is true.

He has told me on several occasions that he is not seeing anyone, and he is not spending time with anyone in that capacity. I told him all I have is his word. But, all I can think about is all those years where I would ask him if there was someone else and he would lie to me and tell me "NO"....hard to really believe what he says anymore.

Job.....We have some mutual friends so I do know that he is going out and spending time doing things, and he is also doing things he would have never done when we were married.

I need to keep re-reading what you said to me.....

"show this man you are a strong, independent woman who can make it on her own. Just remember, the more you push, the harder he's going to pull away and run the other way."

"when the time is right he'll contact you...but if he's dark at the moment, then that means he's thinking of something else and doing other things to avoid thinking about you and the situation."

I remember him telling me once that he knew I was a strong, independent person and that I would be able to handle all of this fine on my own. My fear is that he will keep running and never come back, and I may never hear from him ever again.

This is the man who told me from day one of me finding out about the A that he wanted a divorce. He has not initiated anything in regard to that. How does someone continue to live in this limbo. Sometimes I feel like he is having his cake and eating it too. I sometimes think he hasn't initiated the D because he would rather spend his money on fun things, or things he wants to do like going out having fun, not having any responsibility and running up all kinds of bills and going into debt without ever thinking about what he is doing. I know myself and my patience is wearing thin. I am not sure how much longer I can do this

I am also not sure how much longer I am going to be able to hold my tongue and not lash out at him.

Not really sure why, but I am having quite a bit of anger towards H today. Haven't interacted with him, but I have been doing a lot of thinking about this situation I am in and how he has just not given a SH*T about me at all. I really don't know how much longer I can do this. It is not doing me any good.

I really want to just call him and tell him "please just go file for D" and put me out of my misery

You have to do what the best for you, and only you know deep down how you feel and what you are leaning to.
Be very cautious about helping him financially, it's just making his MLC life easier.

Originally Posted By: skm0619

Whew....I have almost completed day #4 of my 5 (12 hour) shifts at work....one more shift to go

Hopefully I can hang on.

Not really much going on here. Just trying to keep myself busy.

Thank you Skyhigh, Blu and Job for commenting on my last post. I will say that I honestly do have a hard time with the amount of communication I should initiate with my H. Like Skyhigh said I do not have children so there is really not any need to contact him. I think sometimes that is a blessing and a curse. I would love to have communication with him, but then again I need to not make it seem like I am pursing.

Skyhigh.....thank you as always for saying things to make me feel better. I really do try not to take anything that he says to me too personal. But when he makes comments about how he never thinks about me and he doesn't think about the A or how he treated me, it is hard not to. It's as if our M never existed.

Give him time and space to learn and see the past without pressure to regret his mistakes. (Not pressure from you, necessarily. But who enjoys feeling like they screwed up?) Most of us try to delay or avoid facing that.

He always wanted me to thank him for doing simple things around the house and I just couldn't do it.

Well that is something you probably need to change. My DB coach told me to "applaud loudly for the 1% of positives" my h did. Words of affirmation are h's love language (and physical touch). Most men want to be admired by their spouses.

It mattered a lot to h and it cost me nothing. Plus it will set an example for your h to perhaps do the same for you.

Did you ever read the "Five Love Languages" by Chapman? it's pretty useful.

I think because I didn't need him to tell me thank you for doing things, so why should I tell him thank you. I see now that me doing that was really important to him and he really needed words of affirmation.

Maybe You have different love languages. But as you are now realizing, it mattered to him and would have cost you nothing. I know it's a hard lesson, but it's great that you are realizing it. When you do interact, it would not hurt to give him at least one compliment and if it is handled sincerely but without expectation, it can't hurt.

As far as what phase he is in, in regard to MLC, I would have no clue. I can say with certainty that he is continuing to struggle financially as he asked me to make some changes to a bill so that he could "get himself in a better financial position."

I also think he is doing things to keep himself busy so that he doesn't have to think about what he has done. I know this man and he has ignored, or just forgotten people in his life that were close to him, and has turned his back on past girlfriends when they were asking him for more of his time. He also turned his back on a family member and never thought anything about it. He has no issues with just walking away, so he will have no problem ignoring me and acting like this never happened.

well, that might happen. It might not. Try not to borrow trouble from tomorrow.

Blu.....I cried really good after listening to that CD, it was awful. I am realizing things I need to work on and it is a daily thing for me. I just am still having a hard time with him living his life and not wanting anything to do with me.

What can you do about that? What if you GAL? Seriously, what if? How could it hurt?

I was revisiting the conversation we had when he apologized for some things, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that he was still blaming me for things, and insinuating I was doing things when I wasn't. At first I thought he was being sincere when he apologized, but now I think he really did it for his benefit and to make himself feel better, and also so he can say "I said I'm sorry and now I'm moving on." That conversation was all about him. He never asked me how I was doing, nor did he ever validate me or what I was saying. To me it still screamed of selfishness.

OR he wanted to get something off his chest. Perhaps trying to find a flaw in the conversation helps you to detach...or not.

As the NP in the ICU, I have to have many difficult conversations with patients and family members. Some of the time I can hear what I am saying and think to myself "you should be telling yourself some of the same things." I guess the saying "easier said then done" is true.

Amen!!

He has told me on several occasions that he is not seeing anyone, and he is not spending time with anyone in that capacity. I told him all I have is his word. But, all I can think about is all those years where I would ask him if there was someone else and he would lie to me and tell me "NO"....hard to really believe what he says anymore.

Maybe it's best not to ask. Not sure why he's telling you .... Or act as if it's none of your business and maybe even say that you're "not ruling it out" FOR YOU but "you know, whatever."

Job.....We have some mutual friends so I do know that he is going out and spending time doing things, and he is also doing things he would have never done when we were married.

I need to keep re-reading what you said to me.....

"show this man you are a strong, independent woman who can make it on her own. Just remember, the more you push, the harder he's going to pull away and run the other way."

"when the time is right he'll contact you...but if he's dark at the moment, then that means he's thinking of something else and doing other things to avoid thinking about you and the situation."

I remember him telling me once that he knew I was a strong, independent person and that I would be able to handle all of this fine on my own. My fear is that he will keep running and never come back, and I may never hear from him ever again.

Yet there is nothing you can do about what he thinks, except to be fine (validating and friendly and strong, etc) if you run into him.

This is the man who told me from day one of me finding out about the A that he wanted a divorce. He has not initiated anything in regard to that. How does someone continue to live in this limbo. Sometimes I feel like he is having his cake and eating it too.

How so?

Sometimes the most an LBSer can do, is reduce their pain (contain the damage) and make their new lives into new, good lives in which they find peace and joy. It IS within our control.

I sometimes think he hasn't initiated the D because he would rather spend his money on fun things, or things he wants to do like going out having fun, not having any responsibility and running up all kinds of bills and going into debt without ever thinking about what he is doing. I know myself and my patience is wearing thin. I am not sure how much longer I can do this

Is this ^^ putting you at risk, financially? You're allowed to protect yourself.

I am also not sure how much longer I am going to be able to hold my tongue and not lash out at him.

Lashing out and showing HIM your anger, will fuel his negatives. It's just not effective or in your interests. At all. I have never seen a WAS slap their forehead and suddenly realize YOU ARE RIGHT!! They must return, asap...

lashing out just plays right into his narrative...You need to detach to the max.

I spoke with H today as there was a bill he was responsible for that did not get paid s=so a conversation needed to happen.

It was okay. He of course talked about what he was doing, how his battery in his car was dead and he couldn't get to work and stuff like that. I of course told him how sorry I was and that I hope everything was happen to get worked out.

He then asked me if I had made the changes to the bill he asked me to do earlier and I told him that I hadn't and that it was a priority for me at this time. I did say some things that I shouldn't have said like.....I had asked him to do things and never heard any response from him for months and now that he needs me to do something I am supposed to drop everything. Now I realize I shouldn't have said that.

We got disconnected and when I called him back I said "what happened" and he said "I figured you were upset about something and hung up on me." I told him there was no reason for me to do that and he said "I was kidding." I know he was wasn't kidding.

I told him I was thinking about selling the house and he was shocked. I asked him if he was okay with it and he said "well I guess" and then said "I don't live there anymore so" I told him that I am living in limbo and don't know what I am supposed to speak to him about, and how I am supposed to handle things these days. He said he realized that we need to talk about things and asked me if I could speak to him later tonight. I told him that would be fine, and he said he would call me when he was done working around 7pm.

So, needless to say I am a bit scared about what this conversation is going to be about. I of course am thinking the worst.

I know the most important thing is for me to stay calm....that has been an issue for me in the past. I also don't want to become emotional....also another issue for me.

I am tempted to not answer the phone when he calls. But I know that is fear talking.

What to do.......

listen to him carefully, and re-cap what he says so you know you are understanding him, not reacting in fear or lashing out.

You do not need to decide or agree with him on everything. You are allowed to say you will need time to process things.

True, you just told him you wanted a decision, but I doubt he'll press you for a response immediately. Regardless, you do Not NEED to answer him with a ready reaction --- and being angry will absolutely not help you.

Do you believe your conversation tonight needs to be better than today's? If so, act accordingly.

Just hear him out.

I ended up keeping myself busy so I wouldn't sit around and "wait" for the call. It was almost 10pm when he did call and I was a bit annoyed that it was so late, so I didn't answer the phone, plus I was driving when he called. He left a message saying "I know it is late, but I wanted to call and continue our conversation from earlier, but it may be too late to talk, I'll call you again tomorrow and maybe we can chat. Hope you have a good day, see ya."

I texted him back and told a little fib. I told him I couldn't talk cause I was at the movies

Honestly, I felt a bit annoyed that he waited so long and I didn't want my attitude to carry over into our conversation. He said "I'll call you tomorrow. I have a headache and am going to bed. Enjoy your movie" Told him sorry he had a headache and hope that he got some sleep.

So, I came home and walked the dogs, and now I am going to bed cause I am mentally exhausted, and also cause I worked 5 very long and very busy 12 hour shifts in the ICU, and I need to turn my brain off

Originally Posted By: skm0619

25yearsmlc......thank you for all of your words of wisdom, it really does mean a lot to me that you are taking the time to "help" me through all of this. I especially liked when you said "try not to borrow trouble from tomorrow."

Yes, it was a hard lesson to learn that something very simple like telling him thank you could have made all of the difference. I have read the 5 love languages and of course mine is quality time, and H was words of affirmation. We both didn't do well with that....I wanted more of his time, and he wanted more loving words from me. Definitely something I am working on in all of my relationships.

Do I believe that our next conversation needs to be better then the last? Yes, and I need to make sure I don't get any digs or jabs in, or say something that doesn't need to be said. And of course, learn to listen.

how do you feel you handled it, given that you refused the call? I mean, if you knew you couldn't manage to talk without expressing anger, then you were "right" not to take the call.

But if you really want to reconcile with this man, the anger must be handled and I don't mean handled by expressing it to him every time you two connect.

Sometimes we want to reconcile b/c we don't want to be the rejected party, we want to "win." Sometimes it's very hard to know what is truly in our hearts.

Dig deep.

I read something that said "listen and silent are spelled with the same words" ..... I am learning

I ended up keeping myself busy so I wouldn't sit around and "wait" for the call. It was almost 10pm when he did call and I was a bit annoyed that it was so late, so I didn't answer the phone,

does any of this^^ seem like you punished him? You "showed him" that you won't be treated this way, even though it's exactly what he promised to do. He's in a no win situation. My guess is that he had to work up to making the call, btw.

plus I was driving when he called. He left a message saying "I know it is late, but I wanted to call and continue our conversation from earlier, but it may be too late to talk, I'll call you again tomorrow and maybe we can chat. Hope you have a good day, see ya."

I texted him back and told a little fib. I told him I couldn't talk cause I was at the movies

How will you handle it if he calls again? What if he doesn't call? I'm just asking if you'll be angry either way?

Are you talking to someone? I am a huge proponent of working through our negative emotions and not carrying them around. 10+ years ago I had an epiphany.

I realized that I thought I was "right" to be angry and sad about my h's behaviors and choices. (And I probably was).

But sadness and anger were consuming ME, not him. It didn't matter if I was right. Every time I expressed those emotions, it fueled his negatives and he ran harder and farther. And it made me miserable inside and to be around.

And it kept me from changing ME, which I needed to do for me...and for my kids, actually.

This^^ sounds obvious. But until we grasp it and say it and believe it, we hold onto our anger too much. At our own peril.

"When you hold onto anger to punish someone else,

it's like lighting ourselves on fire,

to get smoke in their eyes."

Hope this ^^ makes sense.

Decide what type of R you want with this man, as he is. Not how you wish him to be.

And if it's recon you want, you probably need to adjust your views & behaviors don't you think?

But IF it's not reconciliation,

then you can forge ahead without his involvement, can't you?

25yearsmlc.......you are absolutely right about everything you have said to me, and all of it makes total sense.

I will say that I was worried I might get upset with him last night and that was why I didn't answer the phone. Now, I may not hear from him today, or ever again, and if that is the case then that is another hard lesson for me to learn.

In the beginning I had so much anger towards him it was unbelievable, and it was pretty scary at times. I have been talking to someone about this and working at it daily. Initially I felt that the anger was coming from a place of hurt, but now the anger is coming from somewhere else and I am trying to figure that out. I see so much of my father in me when I let myself get to that point.....and that is something I never liked about my dad.

This is not about winning for me. I knew from the moment I met this man that I wanted to marry him. I was 38 years old when we got married (my first marriage) and I would tell him "I waited a very long time for you" and I wanted to be with him forever.

I know that during our marriage there were times when it was more important for me to be right....no question about that. I also know I have control issues. I have apologized to H for those times, and I also apologized to him for feeling like he couldn't talk to me about how he was feeling because of how I would react.

I know he is working on himself and doing the best he can, and I need to be okay with that, and if I am not, then I need to really let my M and him go.

All I can do moving forward is do the very hard work of working on me and learn how to improve myself. I know I need to change because I don't like who I have allowed myself to become.

this^^ is a brave post. Well done.

((( )))

Great advice 23yearsmlc!

Hope your day was fine?

One day at the time, MLC is a journey, a traumatic one. So be gentle with yourself, we all made/make/will made mistakes, the most important is to understand why we made them and what we can do to avoid to repeat them. Also, since that a journey, look at it more as a step by step process, do no try to project to far away in the future. Meanwhile keep yourself busy with activities that fulfill you with some happiness. Enjoy some good endorphins, you need them.

Don't let that anger take over your life, try to find an outlet for it!
yoga
talking with a friend
writing
exercising
praying
IC...

I just don't know how much longer I can do this......

I know that when you ask the question "how much longer can a person do this" usually means you still aren't ready. But, I am so tired of sitting around and not being able to make some decisions about my life because I am still tied to my H. Now I know he called me the other night and I didn't answer because I was worried about how I would react. He said he would call again but of course did not. I kind of expected that. I remember him telling me that he lacks courage when it comes to speaking with me. I can not help him with that.....he is going to have to figure that out on his own.

I called him today and he was of course at a friend's house. This is someone who made his life very easy for him when he was kicked out after BD. He lived with him for 3 months, never paid rent, utilities or anything. He just lived it up.

He said he would call me on his drive home, and I said "you wont, but okay" we sat there in silence and then he said "I'll talk to you later" and I just hung up.

I had a good day out of the house. Took the dogs for a long walk down by the lake, and looked at some places that I am thinking about moving into. But as I thought about my life moving forward I feel stuck in certain ways. I want to sell my house. I need to get out of here, but in order to do that I need to have a conversation with H about it (he is on the mortgage). I feel stuck because I can not detach.

I know that calling him is what has changed me mood, but I just need some answers. This has been going on since November 2015.

I can feel the anger just building up inside of me.

I'm angry because he cheated on me and only thought about himself and not how this would effect me
I'm angry that he walked away from me...not once, not twice but three times
I am angry that he never tried to make this work
I am angry that he never signed the divorce papers
I am angry that he continues to live his life like none of this ever happened, and with no regard for my feelings
I am angry that HE wont file for D
I am angry that he lacks courage

But what I am most angry about is how I continue to let him effect me this way.

When is this ever going to end........

I am sorry you feel stuck. That is not a good place to be. Most times I felt stuck, when I looked at it closely, I figured out I had put barriers in my own path. I thought it was the situation but actually there were choices I didn't make.

What specifically are you stuck with? As for the house, if you feel you want/need to sell it, take steps towards that. One of those will involve H but there are surely other steps you can take alone . Why is discussing this with H such a big deal? If your life, a better life is at the other side of the house sale, then this will need to be done sooner or later.

Best wishes

Roist.....

I feel stuck in several ways

-I feel like I can not detach and that keeps me in this painful, emotional place I have been in for a while
-I continue to have expectations and that also keeps me in this same place
-I also am saying one thing and doing another, and that definitely is not helping me

Like you, I am putting barriers up in my own path. I am the one making the decisions in my life....no one else. So I need to start making better choices....ones that will benefit me.

Yes, selling the house would be a good thing for me. I know he is surprised I want to sell it (he told me so). He asked me "what made you want to sell the house" and I told him that it is not easy coming home everyday to a place that has so many memories in it. He said he understood. We did discuss selling the house, and he asked me if there was anything he could do to help me with that process.

We had a good conversation last night about many things. He again told me that he continues to lack courage when it comes to me. He also mentioned that he is learning that his behaviors in the past and in our M, has likely been a result of being controlled by his parents growing up, and how he learned to deal with that was by avoiding his feelings and emotions (something he did very well in our M).

I asked him if he was happy with where things were right now. He said he feels free of a lot of "baggage" meaning that he feels a weight lifted off of him because he has realized things about himself, is acknowledging them, and is continuing to make changes. I told him I was very proud of him because that is not any easy thing to do.

We didn't speak about our current relationship or D. I mentioned a conversation that I had with a friend who asked me why I wasn't divorced. I told them that getting a D is not a priority for me right now, and that I am continuing to work on myself. After I made that comment he then said "yes, that is where I am, I am still working on me." I am trying not to read into that comment....but it is hard.

We agreed to meet tonight for dinner. We need to discuss taxes and I'm sure other things will come up. We both did A LOT of talking last night, so tonight my plan is to listen.

One day at a time......

One other thing I wanted to mention was that he admitted that he is struggling pretty badly financially. I know this is a result of all his spending that comes along with the MLC. He has maxed out 2 credit cards and another one is almost maxed as well. His rent is my mortgage payment, and his truck payment is ridiculously high..but he just HAD to have that truck after he was kicked out.

He owns his own business and is supposed to pay taxes quarterly. He only paid a small portion of taxes for 2016. When we filed taxes in 2106 (for 2015) we did it jointly but the tax person estimated how much each of us would be getting back because she knew we were separating. The total amount went into my bank account.

I received a small portion of the return. H got back approximately 10K. He says he was going to use that money for his 2016 taxes. He asked me last night what happened with the tax return money and I told him it was in the bank. He asked me if there was any way he could get that money. Since he only paid a small portion for 2016 he needs to pay the rest that he owes before he can file in 2017, and he can only do that if he is given the money from 2015.

Now.....the hurt spouse, the betrayed spouse, the one who wants him to suffer says "don't give him that money because he is only going to use it to pay off all his bills he racked up during this MLC and then rack up more bills" and "this is the man who told you that he didn't love you, and says he wants nothing to do with you, and doesn't ever want to see you or the dogs again, and blamed you for the A" and "he knew he was going to have to pay taxes for 2016, he should have accounted for that"

What to do......

I'm not sure how exactly to advise you on that, but I have read here often to keep your M/emotions completely separate from the financials. That's hard to do, obviously! Perhaps you can think about it this way--what choices would you make about finances/taxes if it had absolutely no affect on your R with him? Maybe do that--do the "right" thing--not what may win him back or punish him. If he were your business partner and you had to file taxes together, what choices would you make? Can you just do that--treat this as all business and put emotions aside? If it helps don't discuss any of it, just email all the financials and in a matter of fact tone. A good paper trail may be needed down the road too.

I've been meaning to chime in because I read along and your anger is palpable. I can really, truly relate to this anger! During the time my H was gone, I was bubbling over with hurt and anger--that is what makes following Sandi's rules so, so hard! You have to put on your strong/confident mask when you interact, when all you want to do is snap, fire off, or cry and fall apart. I know how hard this is! I also know how hard we can be on ourselves when the time is going on and on and we wonder why we haven't made any progress yet. You feel stuck and frustrated on top of wounded and angry. I get it.

My therapist had described it to me this way--I was the lion and he was the mouse. He stayed deep in his hole because he knew the moment he peaked his head out, I would rip it off. Or roar. So he stayed in there, where he was safe. So I don't want to put anymore pressure on you, skm, put could it be that you are also a lion? Even when you don't rip his head off, with each interaction, are you reminding him that you are hurt and angry? If so, he will stay hidden.

I know you don't have kids and there are fewer opportunities to interact, so that must be frustrating. How can you better use those times to DB? Can you try and only listen and validate the next time you talk? Less is always more in this game.

I can also see your exhausted and want to know how much longer you can do this. Here is the thing, what is it you would like to do differently? I like 25s mental activity of imagining that H has died, some time has passed, and to plan your life that way. If that involves selling your home, changing jobs, moving, etc, then it's perfectly okay to do those things now. What exactly is holding you back? Really think hard on that.

I see that you are feeling stuck, but I want you to see that H is not keeping you stuck, you can only keep you stuck. Really think about it. He's gone. It hurts, I know it hurts, but he is. You can't wait for him.

This is why I believe in DB; if we can follow the program is serves us in two ways. We learn to put ourselves first, GAL, 180, and become a stronger and more confident person. In that time we can also allow ourselves to let go of our M, detach, and possibly accept and forgive them. In time, they will see a stronger, happier, and "improved" person. This increases our chance that they will want to come back.

Not all do and many don't ever. If you can start moving forward and finding happiness without H, then you will feel better. That's what you need right now, correct? If you can start moving in that direction, he will notice. He will see that you have let go of some of the anger because you are more focused on you. And if he doesn't ever come back, well then I'm sorry for him because you deserve better. You deserve someone that can love you and appreciate you for who you are.

Do you really want someone that can walk out on your M, cheat, and totally abandon you? I bet your strong and happy self doesn't. So how can we find her again???

If there is one thing I wish I could have done differently during a long, and painful, separation, it would be all of the above. That is why I tell you this--I can see you in me. My anger only held me back and only hurt me. He is not holding you back--he is gone--it's time to live for you.

(((Skm)))

Blu

What a magnificent post, Blu. I am an LBH, but I think what you have posted above can be applied to anyone in this situation. I am saving this one to read over and over again.

This would be tough for me to implement, because I have contact with my WW many times per day. Either exchanging the kids or the fact that she texts or calls me all the time. I would need to get to the point where I went stone-cold dark on her, but that has been very tough to do in our separation.

Anyway, didn't mean to hijack, but this was an amazing post and I think SKM would be very wise to follow every bit of it.

Blu......

I really do want to get rid of this anger. It is not healthy for me at all. You are exactly right when you said all I want to do is snap, fire off or cry and fall apart. And, I really do wonder when this is going to get better. It really is holding me back becoming a better version of myself.

I know that I am the one who will decide when I get better. I just wonder if me continuing to act this way is me having control issues.....probably so.

O M G ...... I had such an "AHA moment" when you said what your therapist said to you about H in the mouse hole and we are the lion just waiting for them to come out so we can roar and pounce on them. He told me is scared to call me or initiate any conversation with me because he is afraid of how I am going to react. That makes me sad

Even when you don't rip his head off, with each interaction, are you reminding him that you are hurt and angry? If so, he will stay hidden. THIS IS SO ACCURATE!!!!!

I am meeting him for dinner tonight. We have not seen each other for 4 months. I am really hoping I can control my emotions, as well as my reactions.

Say a little prayer for me.

You can do this!!! Prepare for the worst, and do not let that (or him) change your course. If you can do this, you will feel so much better about yourself. He doesn't determine how you respond, got it??? Even if he shows up with D papers and says/does the most unimaginable things--I'm never coming back, I want D, and I never loved you, spew, spew, etc--you are going to do the same exact thing. Got it?

Here it is: Poker face. Listen, listen, and listen. Say nothing! Read up on the validation cheat sheets and use them all. Those are your best friends right now. Let him do all the talking. Got it??? Even if he lies, spews, attcks, and makes things up. Just listen. Offer nothing as to where you stand, feel, and what you want--he already knows anyway. It's ok if he thinks you are losing interest--that's ok right now. He needs to see you are not angry and that you are safe to approach.

If he tries to ask you questions, or engage you, just listen and tell him you have a lot to think about. Or thank you for asking. I have a lot on my mind right now. Or turn that chit right around on him---can you elaborate on that? I'm thinking and wondering why you're asking. Can I get back to you on that? I need some time to think. Got it???

Look, people and their feelings are always changing. Always. He is scared of you, your emotions, and what to do also. Show him with your actions that you are a woman that is strong, confident, and caring. Even if he is there to do/say the worst possible, he can still change his mind one day---show him a woman that only a fool would leave. 180 TIME is now!

Put your anger on the back burner. Show him that soft, caring, listening side of you. Just listen and validate. Your only goals. And that you are going to need to think more about whatever he says/asks. Especially financial stuff--- that you may need in email form.

As soon as you drive away you can cry, yell, or beat the steering wheel.

We want him to see you're okay moving on without him and you are not sitting there waiting. You can do this!!!!!!

Blu

Something bothers me, it seems that he reinitiated some contacts with you when he realized how deep in debt he was. Please follow Blu advice, keep your financial interests separate from your emotional needs.

Listen and validate him tonight, but remember you don't have to give any answers right on site, ask for some time to think about it.

My WH used to be very nice and open to communication when he needed something. I am not implying that he might try to manipulate you but keep it in mind. One WH' friend made her pay her credit car bill just 2 months before filing. Be very careful...

Good luck. Keep your expectations low and detach+++

Blu and Skyhigh.......

Blu.....I took a picture of what you wrote and I am going to look at it if I find myself becoming upset

Skyhigh.....last night when we spoke I told him that I had told myself that the next conversation we had it would be in person. He suggested that we could meet tonight. This was before he asked about the money, but believe me I also am thinking that he wants the money and that is why he is being nice. I did say to him that he could ask me for the money but that I might say no, and what did he think about that, and his answer was "well I guess I will have to accept that."

I am not taking my checkbook with me and I am not asking for an account numbers from him either. I really do need to think how I can handle this situation. I know it is his money, but still makes it hard to justify giving it to him. D*MN IT!!!!!

I want to think he is doing this to see how I am doing or maybe see if he can be around me.....but the scared side of me thinks otherwise. I definitely have my guard up. In our conversation last night it was the first time he actually asked me how I was doing. Every other convo with him as always been about him.

I will try to enjoy my time with him cause I have no idea when I will see him again.

Here goes.....

I hope the meeting was ok. Please know that we are all lifting you up thru all that you are going thru. I know this is the hardest thing you have ever gone thru, but it is strengthening you even more than you know.

Jeremiah 29:11New International Version (NIV)

11 For I know the plans I have for you,� declares the Lord, �plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

I feel for you so much because the raw emotions are apparent. I can relate to much of what you say, including the anger. But coming late to your posts, I am intrigued that you were so concerned about him not contacting you and having opportunity to contact you and then when he did twice you did not pick up and made excuses why you could not talk to him. Yes, I too would be concerned about the money issue, but it seems that he is trying to be more open and honest with you, and in response you are becoming less so with him. I wonder if you are very conflicted about wanting him back and perhaps holding on for some other reason (perhaps fear--I know in my case I obsess over him so I don't have to turn that harsh light on myself).

Take the anger out at the gym, or save it for later when you know what the outcome is. Everyone has anger. We have all been lied to, cheated on, ignored, we are all having to be the bigger and better person, etc. If you are really wanting to give this a chance, accept that he is trying to do better by you and to be a better person. Stop punishing him for the past. You don't have to figure out all of this today but if you push away the small movements he makes you will definitely not have a tomorrow with him, if that is what you want.

It seems to me that you need to do a lot more looking at yourself. But I see you are making a great start in that by acknowledging your anger. He is just not someone you can vent on right now.

Skm, how did it go? Hope you are doing okay and it was a smooth interaction. Update us soon!

Blu

Blu, Skyhigh, SBJ and OwnIt........thank you for all the good thoughts, suggestions and support. As always it is greatly appreciated.

I have worked the past 2 days, and as usual it was very emotionally draining, so that is why I am just now posting

The meeting with H was VERY LONG. We decided to meet for dinner at 7:30. When I arrived at the restaurant he was waiting in the parking lot for me. When I got out of the car and approached him he couldnt even look me in the eye. I spoke first to say hello, and of course I initiated small talk. As we sat down to eat, he continued to not be able to look me in the eye. I made sure to make eye contact with him at all times.

The conversation was 98% about him, which was what I expected. I did A LOT of validating. The more I listened, the more he talked. We spoke about many different things, but I wont bore you with those details. His life, his job, his working out, how he has changed what he is eating, how he is struggling financially, how he is losing his hair. If I recall, he did ask me one question about my job, but nothing else about me. He did make one comment about me working out and said that I looked good.

There were times when he made comments that I did not agree with, and I had to take a breath so that I wouldn't say something I would regret. I will say there were a few times that I rolled my eyes at what he was saying.

He again said he was sorry that it took him so long to apologize to me for the A and how he has acted towards me since. He did mention that he has told family and other close friends that I am not the horrible person he made me out to be, and that the reason I was only acting the way I was, was because of how he was treating me. I was SHOCKED to hear that. He continues to work on himself, and I can hear that in how he speaks. He is still being deceptive and manipulating things, which I don't know if he will ever be able to stop doing. I told him that I was proud of him because I knew it was difficult for anyone to do that, let alone him.

We finally made it to our vehicles around 11:30 pm. He asked to see my new car and ended up sitting inside of it. Well....that turned into another 2 hours!!! He FINALLY brought up the money issues. He admitted that he is struggling pretty bad financially. He asked if I would be able to give him the tax money, and also about canceling his cell phone. He got a different number about 6 months ago because he thought I was doing something to his, so he now has 2 phones and 2 bills to deal with. I told him that I would do the right thing by giving him the tax money because it is his. I did not offer to write him a check or anything like that. I told him it would be up to him to figure out how he could get the money. We also spoke about selling the house. He admitted he was shocked that I wanted to sell it, and felt a bit sad about it being sold.

He made a comment to me about someone going through his trash around Christmas time and insinuated it was me. WELL.....I was in California at Christmas time, but what really upset me was that he would even think that I would do something like that. So....that was enough to get me upset. I did unleash a bit on him and told him I did not appreciate him even THINKING that I would do that. He said he is still paranoid about things because of what he did, and still looks over his shoulder and feels like people are always staring at him or following him.

I have not told him this before (or anyone else for that matter) ......... I have been worried that I was being followed when I get off work. I work late, sometimes don't leave the hospital until 11 or 12 midnight, so there are not many vehicles in the parking lot where I park. So, when I see another vehicle, and it ends up moving in the same direction as me, I get worried. This has happened a few times. I also have noticed a vehicle parked down the street from my house that is never usually there. And, one night after we (the dogs and I) had returned from a walk and I was standing in the front yard, one of the dogs started barking like crazy and ran to the end of the driveway. Well.....there was a guy standing there. So that freaked me out a bit. And, another night the dogs were in the backyard and one of them was barking like crazy and when I looked outside I thought I saw someone in the backyard. H got pretty upset after hearing that. He asked me what the guy looked like and then said that sounded like his APs husband. He felt bad because he felt this was happening as a result of his poor choices.

I asked him why he hadn't filed for D, after all it's been 16 months since we have been separated. I asked if it was because he couldn't afford it and he said "no, I'm still trying to figure things out." Not really sure what that means.

I told him that our previous M longer existed and that I need to move forward. I told him that he knows how I feel, and that moving forward I did not know what our relationship would be like, but that I am going to continue to work on myself, and only time will tell.

He mentioned several times that he was going to go home, but would not get out of the car. We would continue to speak for a bit more and he would say he needed to go but again wouldn't get out of the car. So finally at 1:30 in the morning I said "its' time for you to go home." He hesitated, and then did get out of the car. I got out, gave him a hug and then he drove off.

He knew I was working the next two days, and texted me to ask me if I made it home okay. I thought that was nice of him. He also told me how he wanted me to send him the money (electronically). I did not acknowledge that text cause it was after I got home after work last night. Today, he has called to ask me if I got his text. I was speaking with my realtor when he called and I have not called him back.

I feel different after that meeting with him. His eyes were empty and he was expressionless a lot of the time. And not to mention, he is still so selfish and focused only on himself. I feel like I can FINALLY drop the rope, focus on me and move forward.

I have contacted a realtor, and have started looking for places to live. I am going to move out as soon as I can, whether I sell this house or not. I need to move forward.

Whoa!!! That's a lot! I have so many thoughts/ideas, but I don't want to overwhelm you anymore than you might be. So I'll try to keep it brief!

First, he's very, very conflicted. Clearly. This guy is mixed up and doesn't know what to do. Sounds like he feels guilty for what he did, is possibly having some second thoughts, but also feels like he already ruined everything. He is most likely focused on his self because of his depression. So much as his selfishness and avoidance has hurt you, please realize he wasn't doing it directly to you, but that was the consequence. I have had to learn that Hs A was not an assault on me, but his inability to cope and run.

It sounds like you did a great job of listening and validating! Bravo! That's probably why he talked for so long, because he finally felt safe. Well that and he wants money, but it seems he also wanted to make some type of connection. How did you feel after the interaction? Do you feel better about the way you handled it and that you kept your cool?

So your feeling some detachment now that you have seen him still selfish (and a bit pitiful) and I think that is perfectly normal! Please don't think too much if this because feelings really do change all the time. I want to share with you that when my H started trying to come back, he appeared very vulnerable and even needy. It was not attractive at all! So I started to pull back, he started to pursue, and thus you have the dynamics shifting. So please try and not assess you desire for the M based on one interaction. I have to still think about my M and the bigger picture--head over heart, that's what I always say.

If you want to start making changes about your home, etc, that's totally fine! Do what works for you and live your life. Can you do this without the goal of winning him back or D (or to punish him)? Meaning, without any thoughts of him and the M?

So I am glad you are starting to detach and want to move forward. I think that will be so good for you! And I wanted to add that even if you start feeling more done with him and the M, please continue to DB for you. It's really about you--GAL, 180, and allow yourself to release the anger. Continue to stay dim, don't initiate contact, and when he reaches out you can still just listen and validate. These are great skills for any R, so this is perfect practice. It also keeps your power in the R with him--and he sees you strong and moving on--he pulls back when he feels you are upset and angry.

Please trust me that thihgs can change, fast or slow, but they will never stay the same. My H was depressed and selfish for a long time, and like I said, when he first came back, he was not attractive to me and the tables turned quickly! However, he did the hard work: he went to IC, read books, and he looked at himself. We also went to MC, and 2 years later I have seen so many changes in him. The hardest part for me has been letting go of anger and looking at my mistakes. I have felt so justified in my anger because I was so wronged by his terrible choices.

It has taken me years to finally start to let go of anger and also see my faults in the M. It's so, so hard! I am not saying you are like me or that your H is similar to my H, but I do want you to see that your still on the roller coaster. It's okay to just stay where you are (in the unknown territory) and not make choices about the M and just keep living your life. In time this will all sort out, but this truly is a marathon and not a sprint.

Keep us posted!

Blu

So proud of you. You changed so much since last December. It seems that a more confident" you" is starting to emerge.

I am really impressed how you handled that meeting/conversation and how you were able to detach and validate him for such a long time. That's your life, only you can decide what the best for you as today, tomorrow being tomorrow.

(((hugs)))

WOW.....that last post of mine was definitely long (sorry about that)

Blu......I have read what you posted to me several times. What you said makes a lot of sense to me. I am not sure exactly what it was that made me have this change of feelings towards my H and my M. I agree that he is conflicted, and that he thinks he has done too much damage and can never repair what he has done to me or our M. I also think he has too much pride and is a coward, and lacks the courage to be able to tell me how he really feels. And, until he is able to do that he will continue to struggle. He really doesn't have the coping skills needed at this point in his life, and I'm not sure if he ever will. He is totally depressed right now, even though he would never admit that.

I was proud of myself for being able to spend that much time with him, and validate how he was feeling for the majority of the time. I did get emotional at one point, and as usual he showed no sympathy towards me at all. It's as if he just shuts that part of his brain off.

I have started detaching from him.....something I thought I would NEVER be able to do. Now, have I totally detached, no where near that, but at least I am on my way. For the better part of the past 16 months he has consumed the majority of my thoughts. Since meeting with him the other day, I find that I haven't really thought about him as much. I guess seeing him look pitiful, knowing he is struggling because of selfish decisions he made/continue to make and being emotionless, have allowed me to be able to do that. I am trying not to take everything he says or does personal, but when it is being done to you, or has been done to you for such a long time, it is really difficult.

I am going to move forward with my life. I am finally excited about things moving forward. I am looking forward to selling this house and finding a new place to live. I am looking at places very opposite from where I live now. I think this will be so good for me.

I have not given up on my M, or the possibility of some sort of R with H, but I am moving forward and will continue to DB. I will definitely keep in mind what you said about not doing all of this with the thoughts that he will come back, or to punish him in some way. That was a great thing for me to read.

Skyghigh.....all of your wonderful words of wisdom and support has brought me to this place where I finally am starting to feel like I can move forward and let go. It has been very difficult for me, and I know that things are still going to be difficult at times, but I am looking at things differently. I can feel a little of the old me coming back, and I like it

I also feel like my anger towards H is becoming less of an issue for me. I know he is reaching out because he needs money, but I am going to have to not let that upset me, or bring me to a place of anger.

One day at a time......

Well I did it......I spoke to a realtor, signed all the papers and put my house on the market. I did tell H what my decision was and he was shocked and was surprised I wanted to sell it. I told him that I no longer have any attachments to this house. It is not that I really want to move (my work is literally 5 minutes from here) but that I need to move. I need to do this for me. He said he has many attachments to this place. A lot of "firsts" happened here for him. He also mentioned that he realized that he had many of the things he did have, including this house, because of me.

When we were speaking about selling the house I asked if we could face time instead of just speak. We were talking and he still has such a sad look to him. I asked him if he could do me a favor and try to smile more, and his response was "I'm not there yet." We spoke about other things, and I mentioned that my other vehicle (the one mainly used for the dogs) was not running. He said "I can come over right now and see if I can help you figure out what is wrong with it." Now.....it was 9:00pm and I was actually starting to settle in for the night. I said if you want to come and see if you can figure it out that would be great. In the past 16 months this man has NEVER offered to help me with anything.

He showed up and we actually ended up taking the dogs for about an hour long walk. He spoke about himself the whole time, which I expected. He still doesn't ask about me, and what I am doing, and I don't really think he is able to do that yet.

We got home, and he sat down and opened his heart out to me. He again said he was sorry for everything I have been through since BD. He is sorry that he didn't think about me when we were married and when he was making decisions, and he realizes he is very selfish. He was sorry for not putting me first. He doesn't care about what people think about him anymore, and does not make decisions based on what others think. He thanked me for giving him a good life, even when he was not able to contribute financially to that life. He said he is willing to sell the house because he knows that this is what I want, and that I deserve to get what I want.

He said a year ago he would have never been able to have this conversation, but he is learning what is important in life. He said up until a few months ago he did not care what I thought about him....but now he does. He also said he is ready to stop talking and start doing, and let his actions speak instead of just words. He mentioned that he wants to regain my trust.

I am continuing to validate him when he speaks, and I do tell him that I am proud of the person he is becoming. I told him that I don't take the A personally anymore.....and that was a hard thing for me to learn. I again said I would never take responsibility for his choice to have the affair, but do take responsibility for my actions and choices in our marriage leading up to it. He said "why would you take responsibility for the A" and I said "because you blamed me for it" and he then said "that was my defensiveness and justification for what I did."

Not really sure where all of this is coming from with him? I guess maybe he is hitting his rock bottom? Or maybe he sees that I am moving on, with or without him, and that scares him. Or maybe he is finally realizing that he needs to look deep inside himself and see that his decisions don't just affect him.

I am moving on, and it feels good to FINALLY be feeling this way. I am looking forward to the new things that are going to be happening in my life.

That's a lot of conversations in a very short period of time, that's great!

You really changed... I like the New You.

As you are starting to realize, detaching is very healthy for you, it helps you to look at yourself, take steps for your own well being, and feel so much better inside.

I like your analysis of your husband's behavior, I agree it's a mix of different things.
Something is happening for sure otherwise he won't be so compelled to talk. As you noticed, the more you validate and listen the more he speaks, it might be only about himself but at least it's the beginning of some sort of communication.

He is still in his MLC journey, most probably the replay phase is over or almost. He is starting to reflect on his actions,what led to them, and the consequences it had on him and others, it's a process, don't try to rush it, but by listening and validating him, you are actually helping him to sort out his feelings and ideas. I remember my husband used to blame me for his affairs during his replay phase, then when he entered withdrawal/depression, one day while we were talking about the past and OW, he told me that "It had nothing to do with you".

Stay detached even if he warms up to you, now being detached is almost like a second nature for me, it makes feel protected, it's my little cocoon, I have been hurt so badly, the last thing I want it's to walk through that road again.

Start living a life that makes you happy, make projects for you and if he wants to join you aboard, fine, but put yourself first, you need to heal and be able to open your heart to joy again without fear of being hurt.

I am so glad your life is starting to turn around for you, I can feel the energy coming back to you by just reading your last posts.

Carpe Diem because life is too short to let somebody steal another second of our happiness.

((HUGS))

Skyhigh......as always thank you for showing me support, and of course encouragement. You (and many others) have been a great constant for me during this time.

Yes, we have had quite a bit of conversation in a short period of time. I honestly can say that I was emotionally and mentally exhausted for a few days. I have not spoken to H for 4 days, and I do not plan on reaching out to him either.

There have been so many on this board that made me realize what I needed to do in order to move forward, and to figure out what I want. It was not an easy thing for me to do, and I did it kicking and screaming that is for sure. But one thing is certain I could not have gotten to this point if it wasn't for all of you. It was hard to hear the 2x4s, but they were definitely what I needed to hear

For so long all I could think about was what my H wanted. Well...I think I can say that those days are slowly disappearing. I am learning that my life will be okay with or without him, and that I can move forward and do things regardless of what H wants. Do I want H to be in my life and for us to try and figure out if we can work on our M ..... of course I do. But, I also know that regardless of what I do he also has to want to do it.

H is slowly learning that his choice to have the A was selfish, and was the most hurtful thing he could have ever done to me. He is also learning on how and why that it had to happen. He also is realizing that how he has treated me since BD has been horrible. I am very grateful that he is getting to a place where he feels like he can open up to me and share his feelings. But also that he is comfortable with all these emotions he has been experiencing.

I am not sure what stage of the MLC he is in right now, and I am certainly not going to try and keep up with all of that. I will continue to be here for him if he needs me, and of course validate him when he speaks...which will of course be all about him

I do still think about him, but he doesn't consume all of my thoughts like he used to. Do I still love him....of course I do. But what I have come to realize is right now he is not the man I married, and I am not sure he will ever be that man again. Am I the same girl he married.....not anymore. This has taught me a lot about myself and what I need to work on.

I borrowed a quote from someone on here the last time I spoke to H and it was

"I didn't break you, so I can't fix you"

I am definitely working on fixing myself, and hopefully he continues the process of working on himself. I think that if anything comes out of this, it is that we will definitely be better people because of all that we have been through.

One day at a time......

awesome post!

keep up the good work!

Great post skm...you have been in my thoughts ans prayers. You seem to get stronger and more confident each and every day. Stay strong my friend and you are right about not being able to fix them. Everyone says to focus on yourself and your needs. If they want to re-join you some time in the future, then I guess we cross that bridge when it comes. You are on the right path!!!

Thank you for the kind words peacetoday and SBJ.....

I have known this for a very long time, but for some reason it has been in my mind more recently. Life is too short to cry about something that has happened in my life and my M....something that I had no control over. Do I sit around and wait for a man who may not want to ever be in my life again? Or do I live my life and do what makes me happy, and if he decides he wants to come along and be in my life then that is an added bonus. I can not continue to wait and see what he is going to do, or what decisions he is going to make. His choices can no longer affect me so profoundly. I know that he is very depressed and continues to struggle with his life, and is still making decisions based on fear.

There were times in these past 16 months that I thought I was literally going to die. I thought the hurt and devastation that I was feeling would kill me. Sometimes I had no idea how I got out of bed and went to work, or functioned normally.

As some of you may have read on some of my posts, I work in the medical field. I deal with death and dying on a regular basis. Very often I have very difficult conversations with people regarding life and death. I have had to be the one to tell family members that their loved one did not survive. I have also had to be the bearer of news regarding a terminal diagnosis. I have had many conversations with people regarding end of life, and the decision to turn machines off to let people die peacefully.

The reason I am saying all of this is that I have decided that I am going to life my life for me. Not for my H, or for anyone else.....just me. If H decides to smarten up and pull his head out of his A$$ and come along on this journey with me then great.....if not, then that is his lose.

oh, do I relate! I, too, have felt like the pain of this would kill me. Felt that many times over the past two years. I feel on some level I've been trying to decide if I'm going to stay, and by that I mean stay alive. I'm not talking suicide, as we think of it. More that people can will themselves to die, or simply stop living and just go through the motions until they actually pass.

I, too, have decided to live, for myself and my pets, and let exh go do whatever it is he needs to do. We no longer share this journey. It's time to find out what else is there for me. That's a bittersweet place to be but you are right - the MLCer will either pull it together or it's truly their loss.

I'm glad you came to this decision. It's not easy getting here, but the inner strength you've found in the process will stand you in good stead moving forward.

{{{{{hugs}}}}}

yes!

Not too much going on here....just working and trying to get all the small details on the house taken care of so it is ready for showings. I'm ready to take this step and hopefully I will be able to sell it quickly. My H is sad that I am selling the house. He seems to have more of an emotional attachment to it then I do, which I find odd. He has been gone from this house for 16 months, and now he is having second thoughts of letting it go??

That brings me to something that has been on my mind lately....

I have had minimal communication with my H for the past 16 months. Since he started to open up to me about a month ago, the conversations have become more frequent. He continues to show me a side of him that I never thought I would ever see. He is being honest and open about his emotions. Early on in this journey I would have given anything and would have loved to have had all this time with him. I would have loved to speak to him daily, and hear all about his life. Funny how things change.

Now that I am selling the house, we have been communicating almost daily, and have seen each other quite a few times recently, Now I find myself having expectations of him, and of course setting myself up for disappointment.

I guess for so long I got used to not seeing or speaking to him, or having expectations because I knew he would disappoint me. Now I have come to a place where I was starting to accept that this was how things were going to be....this was my reality. I was making choices for me and moving forward in my life. Now that we are communicating so much, I am having a hard time dealing with it. It is bringing up feelings that I thought I had put away.

All of this time spent together, all of this communicating, is causing me to become more emotional. I am wanting to discuss our R, or lack thereof, when honestly I really don't want to discuss it. I am asking him questions that I really don't want to know the answer to. I am putting pressure on him to speak about things he is doesn't want to talk about. Why am I doing this???

I am beginning to think that maybe the best thing for me is to not have communication with him. I feel like I was doing so much better when we were not speaking. I feel like I am moving backwards instead of forward

What do I do????

If you feel that your conversations are taking you backwards versus forwards, then maybe you might consider reducing the number of conversations that you are having w/him. You can be civil and return one or two calls and if he asks why you didn't answer/return his calls, you can always say that you've been busy...which you have been.

From what you've posted, he reminds me of someone traveling down memory lane and is reflecting back on his life and the home he had w/you.

Your h senses you are pulling away and creating a new life w/o him in it. They have excellent sensory skills and when they sense that we are pulling away, they tend to step up their game to pull us back in. Unless your conversations are about finances and selling the home, try to minimize those conversations.

At the end of the day, only you can decide what is right for you.

Thanks Job....

I managed to have a discussion with H about how all of this communication was not good for me. I told him that I felt it was 2 steps forward and 100 back (maybe not that many, but you understand). He said he was sorry that he continues to hurt me, and that is the last thing he wants to do. He said he wants me to be happy and if that means no communication with him then he understand. I hung up the phone and said I'll talk to you later, which is how I usually end conversations with him, and his response was "yes you will." Not really sure what that meant?

We didn't speak for a day and a half, which was okay with me. When he did call I found myself not wanting to answer the phone. He is coming over a lot more to help with getting things taken care of for the house. His love language is "acts of service" so I understand that he wants/needs to do all these things to help. But, is that to show me he does still love me and have feelings for me, or does he feel an obligation to help with selling the house, or is it guilt for what he has done and how he has treated me....not sure.

I called him that night to tell him that I didn't feel like it was good for me to have all this communication with him, his response took me a bit by surprise. He told me that he wanted me to know that during all of this time we have been separated that it hasn't been easy for him. He has had many low days, and his life hasn't been all happy and fun times like I think it is. He even said he hates to say it, but he thinks he might be depressed......ya think??

He came over again last evening to change some things out that I could not reach. We did not talk at all about how either one of us was feeling, no R conversations. We managed to work together on some things, and did not have any uncomfortable moments. It actually was a good evening. I think neither one of us felt any pressure....which was a change, a good change.

I am still moving forward with my life, but I felt myself falling backwards and that scared me. I dont want to make him feel bad for coming over, or make him feel guilty in anyway. If he wasn't around to help me with these jobs I don't honestly know how some of them would get done. I showed him some of the places I have looked at to move into, and I think he was sad to see that I am moving on, and was jealous (his words) of the area I was moving to.

Every time he leaves I find him lingering, almost like he doesn't want to leave. Maybe that is just me wanting to see that, or maybe he is wanting me to ask him to stay. I honestly don't know. He has started to hug me before he leaves, which is a new thing. He is the one who initiates the contact, and I must say that it is nice

So, I continue to push forward. I was reading a post that a poster named Raine put up yesterday, and it really made me think. She said:

I feel like I wasted so many years of my life during all of this, just worrying and hoping and thinking about how it's going to end. Don't do that. Step away from it and find the joy in your journey right now. Because this truly is a gift.
You're really going to like the person that you become on the other side of all of this. That's who you are saving. When you wake up from this life transition, you're going to realize that what you really want, what makes you happy, is not the same thing you're hoping for right now. And that's a really good thing.

I hope one day that I can feel that everything I have been through has been a gift

Something else that I forgot to mention....

When I was on my 6 week time off from work/journey to find myself and figure out what I was going to do with my life, I would hear a song on the radio multiple times a day. Whenever I would hear it, it would make me think about H. I almost felt like I was supposed to be hearing this song and the words behind it. I don't know, maybe I felt like the universe was trying to tell me something.

I haven't heard the song in quite a while. Well, last night while H and I are doing some work, the song came on the radio. I remember standing there and saying out loud "you have got to be kidding me" ....... all I could think was is this the universe trying to tell me something.

Its called "Unsteady" by X Ambassadors

Hold, hold on, hold onto me
'Cause I'm a little unsteady
A little unsteady
Hold, hold on, hold onto me
'Cause I'm a little unsteady
A little unsteady

Mama, come here
Approach, appear
Daddy, I'm alone
'Cause this house don't feel like home

If you love me, don't let go
If you love me, don't let go

Hold, hold on, hold onto me
'Cause I'm a little unsteady
A little unsteady
Hold, hold on, hold onto me
'Cause I'm a little unsteady
A little unsteady

Mother, I know
That you're tired of being alone
Dad, I know you're trying
To fight when you feel like flying

But if you love me, don't let go
If you love me, don't let go

Hold, hold on, hold onto me
'Cause I'm a little unsteady
A little unsteady
Hold, hold on, hold onto me
'Cause I'm a little unsteady
A little unsteady

Hold, hold on, hold onto me
'Cause I'm a little unsteady
A little unsteady

Originally Posted By: skm0619

"you have got to be kidding me" ....... all I could think was is this the universe trying to tell me something.

I know what you mean about songs or certain other things happening at just the right time. I think that at times God gives us a 2x4 upside the head to either get us back on the right path or to let us know that we are suppose to keep following his lead.

This week I keep hearing the same song and getting thrown the same scripture. The song is "Even If" by MercyMe and the scripture is Romans 8:28. I will leave it up to you to look them up, but I know that you won't be disappointed. He gives us what we need at just the right times.

Stay strong my friend and take it one day at a time!

Skm - I have a love/hate feeling when I hear that song
It is such a sad song. It makes me tear up everytime I hear it.

Thank you for posting that passafe from Raine's post. It is a nice reminder for me of where I should be heading.

Skm, how's it going? You seem to be on the right path. I know it's so hard. I agree that if all these interactions are hurtful, then pull back a bit. Maybe you are in a new stage of grief as well? You seem more calm.

You seem to have let go of some of the anger and are accepting he's gone. That's hard but it's also progress. I'm not sure I ever reached that point honestly.

Maybe he will come around at some point--he certainly does seem confused and has regrets--but you are doing the right thing by moving forward. You are going to be just fine.

It also sends a message that he can't expect you to wait!

Please keep us posted. Hope this week is better for you.

Blu

Haven't posted for a while, so I thought I would catch up on things. This is a long one

Blu......thanks for the comments. I have been more calm recently, which is new for me. I do still have moments where I feel the anger building up, but those are a lot less then usual. Not sure if I have finally learned to let some thing go, but I do feel better about how I am handling things.

Things here are moving along. Still working quite a bit. The house is officially on the market, so now I just hope I can find someone who wants to buy it

Relationship with H is hard to describe these days. Like I had mentioned previously, we had been spending a lot of time together because of the house, and that was becoming difficult for me. I did mention that to him and he said he understood.

He called a few days later and asked if I wanted to have dinner before coming to the house to finish up the jobs before officially listing it. We were having small talk about his life of course, and something came over me and I just laid it all out there. I asked him if he had any desire to want to work on our M, and did he see himself being with me moving forward? His answer was "I dont know" ...... so for me there was the answer to my question. He continued to sit there in silence, something he does very well. I told him that the only reason we have been spending time together was because of the house, otherwise there wouldn't be any reason for us to see or speak to each other. I asked him to look me in the eyes and tell me that he wanted a divorce or he wanted to stay together.......he couldn't do either. I then suggested to him that he file for D, and that we end all of this because clearly it is not working for me. He of course stayed silent. I stood up and walked to my car. He followed me and THEN he started talking?!?!?!

He said he doesn't know why he continues to be silent when I speak to him about subjects he doesn't want to talk about. He reverts back to when his dad would yell at him and he would shut down. He said he wasn't prepared for the conversation so he was taken off guard. There was a lot more in the conversation, but some things he said stood out to me.

- he said he doesn't think I should rush to make a decision like that
- if my heart and head aren't thinking the same thing then I shouldn't decide
- he asked me if I wanted him out of my life
- he still has guilt, shame and regret
- he feels like I don't believe him when he answers questions
- he doesn't understand why I asked him questions about the A (haven't done that in a while)

There were many other things but I can not remember all of them.

I told him he needed to go home. He lingered in my car but then finally reached over to hug me. I asked him why he hugs me and he said it is a way for him to show some emotion, and is a way for him to show me that he cares. He said he thinks about me several times a day......not sure in what capacity.

The next day was the beginning of 3 long days for him. He is involved in something called Landmark Education.........they describe themselves as "a personal, professional growth and development company that enables people to produce extraordinary results and enhance the quality of their lives." He has been to one forum already and this was the beginning of the second phase. This has allowed him to open up emotionally, and he has become more in touch with his feelings, how he has behaved etc. BUT......honestly I am a bit skeptical of this because after attending the first forum he now speaks differently, and he has even said it is hard for him to communicate with me because the language they speak in Landmark is different then how I communicate? There is controversy surrounding this company, but I am trying not to let that influence me because it has definitely helped H.

He called me on a break during the second day to tell me he had been working through some things and just wanted to talk to me and to share and to let me know. The third day he called again and said he had a bit of a breakthrough and realized some things about our marriage and how he acted at times. He brought up an example of when he was a child and during a situation with his parents he felt rejected and not needed, and he now realized that this had an impact on him as an adult. He always wanted me to NEED him but I would tell him I don't need you, I WANT you, and for me that was better. For him it was the opposite, he needed me to need him.

He then proceeded to ask me if I would be interested in attending an introductory forum with him and said because "I want you to live the best life I know you can live".......this caught me off guard. I told him that I felt like it was a sales pitch and that I didn't appreciate him saying that I needed to change my life, and the only way I could do that was by attending the Landmark forum. He was upset by my response. He then said we communicate differently and we "speak a different language" and that he is learning a new language from this forum and it might make it difficult for us to communicate because of that. WTF?????

I don't want to go to the introductory meeting. I don't want to be made to feel like I need to change my way of thinking in order to accommodate him. Why can't we continue to work on ourselves separately and not be made to feel that if I don't attend that we can't/won't be able to communicate because of our differences?

So needless to say I am a bit confused by all of this from him. I hope that I am not making something out of nothing. Did I respond to harshly to him? Was I justified in my response? I really don't know.

What is upsetting to me is that I finally told him that I was done with all of this, wanted him to file for divorce and for us to move on separately and then he throws all of this at me.

Talk about being confused!!!!!

I agree with you that's confusing. I won't go either to that introductory meeting, he is trying to influence you in a very twisted way to attend it.

You didn't respond harshly to him, you just stated your own opinion which you are entitled to. You can suggest him to to go to MC instead where you feel it might be more productive. Don't let him to drag you back in his emotional mess, you were finally able to get out of it.

In my opinion (that's only an opinion), he noticed that's you are really detached and ready to move on without him and he has lost his "power" on you. When the LBS is not the pursuer anymore, usually the WH feels that he lost something, somehow you might be his security blanket, without you who can he blame for his unhappiness anymore and to whom he can go back if he discovers later on that the grass was not greener on the other side of the fence.

I am very proud of you, your emotional transformation in regard of that situation has been amazing since December.

Big hugs to a very special strong woman.

skm...Thanks for stopping by my thread and following along with my crazy as well. I am sorry that you are struggling with your H and his own form of crazy.

It seems that you are heading in a positive direction and he has lost control over you...that control was controlling your emotions. It seems he is now trying to steer you into this "Feel Good About Yourself" course. Not that there is anything with people wanting to better themselves, but it sounds like something out of the movie "Yes Man" with Jim Carrey. While it was a funny movie, it did show how easily people can be brainwashed by some crackpot and deviate from what is normal.

You are standing your ground and that is pretty awesome. Pray hard, stand strong, and God will guide you where He wants you.

It sounds rather like a cult to me. I think I would avoid it and just remind him that I am open to listening to anything he might want to talk about, and perhaps suggest that you are good at translation since he seems to think language will be an issue. These folks are nuts!

New Thread:

WAS vs MLC...not sure it really matters, part 2