Ok here's my new thread.
That's me in the spotlight Maybe not losing my religion but maybe losing my mind? I keep having the urge to reach out to my MIL and tell her I am starting to lose hope. I doubt I will do this and highly doubt it is a good idea. I'm really starting to feel the toll of the stress of this situation. This isn't good for me. my health...
You have been at this for a couple of months longer than I have and I feel your pain and frustration...I have had this urge this weekend to reach out to my W and tell her to come home. Mine has been gone for 2 months, but has felt much longer...maybe because she was kind of closed off before that a bit. I have just had this strong urge to tell her. She is h@ll bent on D and knows that I don't want it, but not sure why I have had this urge either.
By telling your MIL, are you hoping for an answer from her?
Is she close with your H?
Would speaking with her change anything?
SBJ-
If she is h@ll bent on D right now, asking her to come home probably not the best thing...
I don't know why I would reach out to MIL, she probably wants to stay out of the whole thing, based on the zero discussions I have had with her. She's close to H, but I don't know how much they've talked about this.
Would speaking to her change anything? Doubt it.
Nothing does anything when someone keeps begging for space. I think one can only do one thing: give space.
Just there will be a point where I will give all the space, because I'm tired of that phrase, I'm tired of being labeled as all of these horrible things that led to the needing of space, I'm tired of the BS of running for months and months. I'm weary of "giving space"-- the last time he said he needed more space apropos of nothing! I which I could just disappear to an island and never been seen again. That be my fantasy way of "space giving".
I did all of the wrong things at the beginning of this, but I have begun the detach phase. I spoke to family and friends hoping that they'd talk some sense into her.
Yet I still deep down want this woman. Maybe it's the wanting something you can't have thing.
I just sat thru a church service with my W and our 3 kids...just begging God to speak to her. I guess I have to rely on having it done in his time. It was tough watching her and my two youngest drive away. The saving grace is that my oldest has moved back in with me from college. It's nice not to be in a quiet house.
I pray for peace for us all that are in this trial...it is definitely the tough test struggle I have ever been involved with.
As for your island theory...how about a sail boat. That way there would be solitude, but we could actually explore many different places. Sounds like something to add to my bucket list for retirement.
That's really nice to have the older S back with you. I didn't speak to anyone to try to talk sense into H, does it make any difference, probably not.
I have taken sailing lessons, so yes to the sailboat.
The only thing talking did was infuriate her...she spewed that I was trying to fix her and there wasn't anything to fix. That was eye opening to me. As a fixer I saw us as broken after initial BD and there was much room for improvement...she then took off with the MLC script and ran with it. She has told many different people different things, but I guess that doesn't matter either. I only have control over me and how I can raise my kids...hopefully steering them in the right direction in life.
Prayers for strength and peace!!!
Sounds about how the script goes...
Everyone will tell you to focus on your kids, of course.
Stay strong SBJ.
Just there will be a point where I will give all the space, because I'm tired of that phrase, I'm tired of being labeled as all of these horrible things that led to the needing of space, I'm tired of the BS of running for months and months. I'm weary of "giving space"-- the last time he said he needed more space apropos of nothing! I which I could just disappear to an island and never been seen again. That be my fantasy way of "space giving".
Altair - Thank you for the visit over to my thread and your kind words.
Because I think our brains work similarly I thought while reading this to suggest a "mental trick" that I tend to use professionally as well as personally. When something doesn't work or the solution seems impossible I will "turn the problem upside down". Reading this made me think that you are perhaps unconsciously starting to do that in your "fantasy". For some reason it also reminded me of the character "Wonko the Sane" from Douglas Adams' "So long and thanks for the fish". That character believed the entire universe was mad and so built a house inside out to make the inhabitants of asylum comfortable.
Current problem definition - H "wants space" so you've "given space". He's demanded something that you have kindly provided. Is that the reality though? It may be one of them.
Another way of looking at this is that he is in a box and you are outside of it. In my own sitch my STBX left to get "away from the noise" and to live her fairy-tale princess land life. The lies and the deceptions involved put her into her own box where she remains seemingly afraid of her own shadow while I was able to live outside the asylum, make new friends, become comfortable again in my own skin and to remain proud of who I am.
Perhaps you haven't "given him space". Perhaps he's crawled into a tunnel while you have the entire cosmos to roam free and proud through and to shine in. He can wallpaper his tunnel with all the labels that he wants. The labels can't stick to you because you aren't there. You my dear, are as FREE as you choose to be.
Just a thought.
Forgot about Wonko the Sane! Thanks for the memory.
RIP Douglas Adams!!
I agree wholeheartedly, that his space is some sort of dirt tunnel. Or the Crab Nebula-- who knows.
In the meanwhile, I am self-DBing, which I think is going pretty well. For example (this is for my Toronto trip BTW) I asked some colleagues to work on the piece with me, they took it, never consulted me, totally screwed up what I asked for, made up their own data interpretation-- of course I have to re-do the whole thing. I asked them to do some background stuff-- NOT the analysis but they were so gung-ho I guess wanting to impress our boss they royally gummed up the data piece.
Neither of them has the stats background or chops to do this...
Let's see, before really DBing, hmm, I may have laid into them (but most likely not). I probably wouldn't have run to the boss either (this has definitely happened to me before, same situation).
So, what is different? Well, I would have been very upset yesterday data wrangling with a mess. I would have thought to myself, I would never ever hire these people to work for me or recommend them (still true). I probably would have complained to H about how horrible my co-workers are, they don't listen, do things they are not remotely qualified for then sloppily make data up, etc.
That's the piece, then, that I won't do moving forward, in any relationship. I need to learn to be more flexible, more understanding, kinder (?) because, as we all here know: IT DOESN'T MATTER. It doesn't matter that my colleagues screwed up one project. It's a tiny facet of my week, there are so many more important things to look at or dream about than obsess over this!
I would like to think I didn't complain to my H about every little thing, but I know I can strive to be more positive, a better Altair. Even in heartbreak.
PS A.P. I will be thinking of space today. No wonder he is asking for space! He is trapped in a tiny container of his own creation and feels trapped in it. Great paradigm shift!
I love what AP said about space, it's so true! If they have backed themselves into a tunnel no wonder they are asking did space!
Hope you are doing okay Altair... X
Hi Coly-
I am doing okay. Trying to keep my mind from wandering and going to dark (assumptive) places. Taxing, isn't it? Work is super busy, keeping me stressed and occupied. You?
Altair - I hope you are doing well. Thank you for your kindness. I have greatly enjoyed your companionship as well as we both travel along the same river.
AP,
I hope you still stay with us, regardless of quitting standing. I enjoy your company.
A.
I'm not too sure on my future with this forum right now.
Andrew, we are not allowed due to Forum policies to post any type of personal info such as email addresses, home addresses, phone numbers, etc. Posting such info is a sure fire way of getting put on moderation or even banned if a person continues to try to post such stuff. Sorry!
job - Sorry if I offended. I completely understand the rational and real reasons for this policy. Many of us here are in a delicate spot and this policy is a wise one for the safety of the members and the integrity of the community.
Sad though - I was so looking forward to sharing a couple of glasses of Chianti with Altair when she comes up here.
Andrew,
You didn't offend anyone...just thought you should be reminded of the policy so that you wouldn't get put on moderation. It's not a problem...but this policy is put in place to protect the posters, etc. We have had a few trolls in the past that have posted to the posters and that's why the info is not longer allowed here.
What you and Altair can do is when she's ready to come up for a visit, come here and tell her where a meeting spot will be and possibly what color bow tie you will be wearing.
You still can share a couple of glasses of Chianti...but you need to think outside the box.
AP- we can find each other for that glass of Chianti. Stay looking at my thread. I'll tell you when/where I'll be. and not wearing a bow tie.
Also, AP, she did say think outside of the box...
Challenge me!
Let me think about it. You are miles ahead of me in your ability to collate data and figure things out and your statistical skills leave mine in the dust. The biggest challenge is to solve the puzzle without violating the rules of the forum. Those rules were put in place for very good reasons. People do violate them from time to time but somehow I feel that anything I write seems to get a big audience so the solution needs to be elegant, effective which means simple.
I will indeed keep an eye on your thread my friend. We will figure a way to do this keeping within the spirit and the letter of the forum rules.
Let's start perhaps with adding to the body of data. Have you ever read an author called Terry Pratchett? If you liked Douglas Adams you will enjoy him. As a sampler you may want to try a book called "Witches Abroad" - I've referenced it in my own writing a fair bit. It has strong female characters who do what is "right" regardless of the cost.
Do you have a book recommendation for me? I'm currently re-reading the EE Doc Smith Lensman series for about the 12th time.
If you run into problems thinking outside the box, with the clues that you've been providing this morning, I'll give you a clue you have access to this area.
Also, there are a number of posters that post on FB. Some have DB behind their names on FB.
Put your thinking cap on and think like Sherlock.
Aha......I think I've figured it out!
It will be a Job to do AP..........but it can be done. Outside of the box?
Look left, love
Nope......just tried it (disabled) back to the drawing board
If you run into problems thinking outside the box, with the clues that you've been providing this morning, I'll give you a clue you have access to this area.
Also, there are a number of posters that post on FB. Some have DB behind their names on FB.
Put your thinking cap on and think like Sherlock.
Now you're challenging me
I've actually found a few of the people on this forum on Facebook but not reached out to them - the archives are a treasure trove of personal information. My own posts probably have enough information in them for someone to find me if they could stand going through all of that dreck that I've written
To nobody's surprise I've written on the internet on a wide variety of topics of interest to me for many years using my real name. I could drop perhaps 2 hints that don't violate policy that would make googling me trivial but where's the fun in that now that I've been given a project.
This little white box has been a helpful place indeed. I still have a couple of months I believe before the Chianti has chilled properly. No rush to solve the mystery. Altair has her part to do in this as well.
I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by;
And the wheel’s kick and the wind’s song and the white sail’s shaking,
And a grey mist on the sea’s face, and a grey dawn breaking.
I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.
I must go down to the seas again, to the vagrant gypsy life,
To the gull’s way and the whale’s way where the wind’s like a whetted knife;
And all I ask is a merry yarn from a laughing fellow-rover,
And quiet sleep and a sweet dream when the long trick’s over.
Well....I'm well confused!
The mystery of figuring out how Andrew and Altair will communicate is for them to solve. It's a good way for them to focus on something other than their spouses and it is a good challenge for both since they have been discussing data gathering. LOL!
Be careful in dropping your hints.
Andrew, reach out to some of the FB posters. I'm sure they would be both surprised and happy to hear from you.
Oh wow, what a conundrum. I do love the puzzles though...
For the record, I am not on facebook. So that's a dead end.
what a beautiful poem AP, will have to look that up now.
As far as books you should read recommended by me-- hmmmm. I need to think about that (nothing on my table is remotely interesting-- all work stuff)
update:
saw H last night. lots of talking, tears. He wants to D. He thinks he's lost and needs to do his own thing right now. I listened. He said he loves me and misses me and I'm his best friend BUT he cannot be in a marriage right now. He hopes we can reconcile someday. Said he needs to work out so many things within himself. I said my DB-coach-trained answer, that I don't a divorce but I will respect your wishes. Talked all night about everything and nothing. Laughed. ML. Slept in each others arms. Talked about his job search. He might leave and he feels we need to D so he can start over.
I listened. A lot. To a person who is very lost and in a lot of pain. A lot happened over the past few years I've not mentioned here, but it took its toll on him, on us. Waking up in his arms with the sun streaming through the window I had tears in my eyes but (what are the words here) I felt a love for him so great and compassionate I could let him go and find himself. I love him so much that I didn't need to grasp onto the past, the dead marriage. I loved him so truly and openly I was able to let it all go- the pain of the past year, everything.
I think-- from this site-- that he thinks D will set him free from the entrapment he has chained himself in. It might! But, as we discuss here, it probably will not. D will not free him from the pain of life. Inside us, us, we are the only people who can set ourselves free.
I saw this kind, very confused person who has been reclusive the past few months (yes Job, he DID stare at the paint chips on the wall) and I felt nothing but love and hope and compassion. He asked me about me, what i was doing, how i felt, everything, and listened.
He made me breakfast and asked what now. I let him come up with his plan. He still wants some space (hi Coly) but he wants to rebuild our friendship (his words, his idea, is he the DBer or what?). He wants to be friends, he misses seeing me. I said how about in two weeks we have dinner, and he said yes, he would love that. In the two weeks I have another trip, but maybe we will meet for lunch. He told me he'd never met anyone like me, he couldn't bear to lose me, and can we work on just our friendship and table all the other stuff for now? I said YES. Then I made jokes about starting to bring a few sets of clothes over to his apartment and other incidentals and he laughed, like old times. He said I was his everything, but he was so lost right now, and sorry for everything, the pain he put me through, asking for D, which he thought was necessary to move forward. Again, asked if we could work on friendship. (ML again-- friendship??) This site, and Job in particular has taught me, this is his journey, and I must let him go on it and find himself. I love him so much my heart aches but I know what i must do.
We said our goodbyes and he excitedly told me he'll send me links to places he wants to eat. He checked my bald tires! He was him but not him. I was me but not me. There's a rocky road ahead but I've got this. I see the beauty in everything (particularly the starry sky).
Wow what a post. Made me smile. A bit jealous too
Haha
I think it is great but I would lower your expectations.It could be the start of s new connection or just another twist on the roller coaster. Even if the first it may not be smooth.
Best wishes
Hi Roist,
I don't have any expectations. I think I'll get papers sent to me. I think we will probably D. I think he will get a job and move away. He's lost and on his journey, which may or may not include me, but for now, a lot of not.
Hey Altair, how are you my friend?
I woke up in the early hours of the morning and thought my phone had woken me but it hadn't so i thought I would have a quick look on the DB site, as most of you are awake when I am not, and saw your post. Rather than respond straight away I thought I would sleep on it because my first my reaction was whaaaat! He wants to D but still wants to build a friendship with you! He ML, tells you how much he loves you, how wonderful you are but still wants a D!
Now I've had time to think I still don't understand why he would want D. He says he doesn't want to be in the marriage right now . He's not. He says he wants to do his own thing. He is. So I guess you are right, he needs to see for himself that a piece of paper makes no difference. The only difference it might make, and I hope I don't upset you here, is that he gets to see other people guilt free.
Altair, I think you are a very compassionate person in that you see that you have to let him go as he is still so troubled. I am so glad you have been able to have this time with him but I am sad that he has decided to take this route. What are your plans now?
Hi Altair, you may not like all that I am going to post, but I think it is important information to give and I hope in the longer term you will find it helpful. Firstly, can I ask how the contact came about - was it initiated by him or by you?
So, you now know that he is willing to come over, ML with you, whilst telling you he plans to D you. That gives you some insight into his current confused and conflicted state. Reading your post reminded me of my own situation - where XH told me that he loves me, I am beautiful and was the best wife to him. But in his situation, he wanted a new family now. I notice there is a difference in ages in your situation - do you mind if I ask what the position was with you both WRT a possible family together? I'm just wondering how much of a factor this may be?
Of primary importance in all of this is your emotional and physical wellbeing. In general, when a guy leaves a R and is feeling depressed, empty or whatever - he doesn't go off find a therapist and support group and start digging within. It is more probable that he may be casually dating, or on dating sites or whatever - seeking distraction and validation to avoid painful digging. So, do be mindful of this possibility and protect your own health.
In my situation, I spent an afternoon with XH and we had a lovely time. We linked arms and talked and talked. Had a big hug. He later told me that he felt swept away by love for me that day and wanted to hold my hand. I later discovered he already had tickets booked to see OW the following weekend and I haven't physically seen him since that day. I agree it seems incomprehensible (or perhaps less so as R with OW is ongoing) - but it is what it is.
So, I want to ask - given that you know his intention is to D - what is okay for you here? Is it okay for YOU to be friends and ML whilst the D process is starting? I would encourage you to think about healthy boundaries for yourself here - because the important thing he hasn't said is - I made a mistake, I want so much for us to try again.
I understand that the intimacy and closeness must have felt good after such a period of no contact. However, it is critical IMHO to see this for what it is - and what I see is a guy who wants to D - and ML to his W - and be friends with her - and possibly casually date etc....ie: he wants it all!!
My advice would be to step right back here and prompt nothing further. I wouldn't send him a little text in a week to remind him about that dinner invite. I woundn't presume this might be the start of more contact with him. I would shift your focus from him and onto your own life. On making that life full and complete without him. On working towards a place where you don't need him in your life or crave that intimacy. If you prompt contact and you guys meet again and maybe ML, I do feel you could be climbing into that rollercoaster car and strapping up for an unpleasant ride...
So, he has said he wants a D and he needs to work on himself. Okay - he knows that isn't what you want - but leave him to it and apply healthy boundaries (given all circumstances) in any contact with him. Other than that, make plans independent of him and move solidly forward in your own life. I'd love to hear what plans you do have for 2017, independent of your marital situation.
I'm sorry to be a Debbie Downer and appreciate this may not be what you want to hear. But I have travelled this road for almost three years now and I hope the advice may be of some value.
Take care and do put yourself first (((((( )))))) xx
^^^^^ - what Sotto said....
Altair, although I'm not the best DB'er I couldn't imagine ML to my H right now because he hasn't indicated he wants to recommit to the marriage as yet let alone if he told me he wanted D. From what you wrote though I'm thinking that this might have been your 'swan song' to enable you to let go of H....?
Just be careful Altair. Except for the D part he said everything you wanted to hear. If he wants to rebuild starting with a friendship then he shouldn't want anything physical right now so as Sotto said pull right back and set your boundaries.
He's in the mind frame of wanting a divorce...so why become his booty call when he feels the need? Being a friend doesn't mean you use that person for your own personal gains. Being a friend to a MLCer is just that. No more booty calls, especially now that he's wanting a divorce. Protect yourself, get yourself checked out because you don't know where he's been and w/whom.
I agree w/Sotto, don't contact him and remind him of the date. Leave it to him to contact you.
Unfortunately, your h wants it all, the divorce, the freedom to date w/o feeling guilty, an ex-wife that is home waiting on him to call and yes...even the booty call. Nope, that's not how a divorce works.
I'm sorry he's dropped this info on you, but now you know where his mind is at...he needs that piece of paper to think that things will change...they will...you just won't be there waiting on him any longer...the rest will remain the same for him.
Put the focus back on you and step back and maintain your boundaries.
For what it's worth, I totally agree with Sotto, Coly and Job.
I can't imagine ML to H while he's going on about a D. If he ever came back,it would take weeks if not months for me to ML to him.
Please take care Altair.....
I agree with all of you- no more of the ML, we talked about that.
As far as him seeing OW, I'm not seeing a shred of that. And sure, he might end up doing so, that's how this works.
The main point is he is (still) a deeply depressed person. He is getting help, he has realized it will be a long and slow journey for him to get better, IF he ever can. This is the main driving force for everything. I know I am not equipped to handle being with someone with a mental illness right now in my life. He's holed himself up in his apartment and spends a lot of time alone- he needs to continue his therapy.
I need to continue to work on myself. So he wants a D. All that will come along with that is for him to deal with and to learn. I have GALed I have a new friend group, I am enjoying as best I can my new life here. He hasn't done any of these things.
He's very depressed and confused, and I will leave him be.
Hugs Altair. We are here for you. Xx
To answer some questions- yes, there is an age gap with probably factors into this in various ways. No, he doesn't want children.
The ML- that was my doing, my booty call for myself. H is really socially awkward. He's dated/been with very few women, and each time, he immediately fuses with them and stays with them for years. He told me he's never really been single in his adult life. Not to play and date but he's saying he doesn't even know what he wants because he's a people pleaser and immediately thinks about what his partner wants. He is very lost and has no idea what he wants to do with his life wrt work, where he wants to live, goals, etc.
I heard shades of positivity, like some of his therapy work is getting him thinking. This might be meaningless, but everytime he brought up D it was immediately matched with "then we can start fresh" and "I can do this right this time" "my therapists says we can D and remarry" and next time I don't want to elope I want a proper wedding... etc. It was uh, an interesting conversation.
We decided that if we meet, it'd be for dinner (public place, 2 cars, no shennanigans) and talk about light things- (AP, That's it! I've got the book I want you to read if you haven't already, or, read it again-- Kundera. The Unbearable Lightness of Being)
We will not talk about D, our past problems. We will talk about funny stuff, our day, positivity. Even if it doesn't come to pass, just to be thought of not as the black weight pulling him deeper into the lagoon is a great value to me. He avoided talking to me because I upset him. I hate that! Separating out these things in his mind makes me feel better about myself.
And the D- his paperwork journey. Who knows what will happen when the printer starts churning. I won't be there for it. He said, for now, he is not going to do anything regards to that. He wants to continue therapy, and see where the job hunt goes.
And for me-- 2017-- what will it bring? Who knows! Game night invite tonight (that is going to be a thing, I can see for sure), more travel for work (Toronto!) more IT training, some crazy new stuff that I hope will lead to future dream jobs. It's weird, you get older in IT but in my case my experience has always been valued, hopefully that sticks. Will I move? Get a fish? we don't know. I don't know!
Altair, please use spacing between your paragraphs. It makes it easier for us to read. Thanks!
I agree with the others.I hadn't realised he was already decided on D.
Best wishes.
Maybe if my W decides to leave I too will get "one for the road" haha.
It's weird, Job, because I do put spacing in there! It must be all getting stripped out, I have no idea why!
Like here, there should be a space.
And here..
Of course that time it worked, just no other times. argh.
That's okay. I'll attempt to clean it up when it doesn't space properly for you.
(AP, That's it! I've got the book I want you to read if you haven't already, or, read it again-- Kundera. The Unbearable Lightness of Being)
Thanks. My public library has a copy of it as an audio book that I am now on the waiting list for.
I finished cleaning out my book shelves on the weekend removing STBX's books. My heavens there were a lot of them along with piles of dust. I sent her a brief note asking if she wanted some of the book shelves - no answer. As I was cleaning I came across some old favourites that I haven't read in some time. I actually quite like children's books with AA Milne's Winnie The Pooh being a long time favourite. In fact I named my boat after the one that the silly old bear used. I may sit down and visit the Hundred Acre Wood this week with old friends.
It sounds like you are facing quite the conundrum in your situation. I'm not sure what advice to give you. We didn't break them, we can't fix them but it does sound like he wants you to ride along on part of his journey. A difficult choice. (((Altair)))
Andrew,
So, you are packing up her things, i.e., books and now have a bookshelf that you can get rid of and you contacted her about it. I would be surprised if she responded to your text about it. I would suggest that as you continue to purge your home of her belongings that you put any "excess" furniture in one room and when you are completed done w/the purging or when you settle up for the divorce, then contact her about the furniture. Until then, continue doing for you.
My advice still stands...leave her alone and stop texting her about trivial stuff. Unless it's an emergency or someone has been injured or died...leave her alone.
Hi AP,
Yes, this is quite the conundrum. Probably the biggest point right now: I didn't break him, I can't fix him.
He is still in the middle of a deep crisis. In telling me he wanted to rebuild our friendship, that he missed that more than anything, just makes me think he cannot handle any more than that right now. He's really managed to isolate himself. Here i thought he was holidaying with family, he barely saw them! MIL texted me this am asking how our conversation went. In a good way, things are shifting away from "us" or "me" as being the problem and now people are seeing the new single him and from the sounds of it, it doesn't look good.
The person I saw-- oh my gosh so fragile. Another obvious takeaway I learned from here- this whole situation will take a really long time to resolve, I'm glad I learned that lesson. I believe before I would have been more impatient.
He is in his thirties. He said his friends have changed since he left/came back, he has so much less in common with them. They are all having kids, etc. He said he feels I am the only person he has anything in common with.
Anyway. I don't recall ever hitting these depths-- but obviously, I'm not depressed. Well, one step at a time. I'm going to stick with GALs- workout today, acupuncture (!) lots of books to read (MLK day today).
Hi All, I would love some advice. So, here's where things stand. H is spending a lot of time alone, waiting, doing interviews, hating career choice, depressed, missing me. Very upset. Not seeing anyone. Not wanting to.
Mentioned D, "to start over", some things he cannot let go of. Wants to work on friendship, slowly (as I said in prev post). So a bit more has come out, and hence my advice question.
I'm still going to DB, give him space, no R talks, be his friend, DB coach stuff, etc, with no expectations. (no ML, lol) What has come out, and is this MLC or BS or real, I don't know but it seems legitimate is what came out is when I left to take the job out here, he felt abandoned. We had discussed it a lot, he agreed, but now it has come out how angry he became about it, and detached from me. He says he cannot get over it, wants to let go of the anger of being left behind, thought I was selfish, doesn't trust me, etc. Thinks D could be one way to resolve situation.
To be clear: there's no money issues or any contention, D would literally be a few hundred bucks, one piece of paper, no lawyers. So he's not manipulating me or being nice to get something. He's hurt, confused, and now I am learning cannot get over his anger towards me.
Thoughts? He did say he is feeling better about rebuilding our friendship and wants to take it slowly, and no R or D stuff until later, until he figures out more about what is going on. Like y'all said, I'm waiting for him to reach out, maybe a dinner in a few weeks. He said he misses talking to me so much but doesn't know what to do about us.
Was having a terrible week, lots of family trouble, his own mental anguish. Thoughts? advice?
Job- triple spacing did the trick!
Altair - I have no R advice but one tech thought. Are you using a different browser / operating system? Unix default line breaks are often just a <LF> where other systems are <CR><LF>.
Reading it from here though it seems that you might be on the cusp of a new direction.
Do you know anything about his family? Did someone abandon him at an early age? Maybe a parent, friend, sibling? To me, it sounds like he has an abandonment issue that needs to be resolved and I think he's projecting on to you.
If his issue w/you was abandonment, he should have spoken up long ago about how he felt...not now...I think this is something that he needs to deal w/on his own because it's a childhood issue of some sort.
If he can't get over his anger w/you now, just how would a piece of paper help him? The anger would still be there and you would still be Altair.
Listen closely to what he's saying and then sift through the rubbish comes out of his mouth. There's more to this abandonment mess than meets your eye at this point and one more thing...don't feel guilty about leaving and take a job. Trust me, had he done the same to you, he wouldn't feel guilty one bit.
Don't take on his guilt...he needs to clean up his side of the street quite a bit.
Job-- yes, his mother abandoned him when he was little. He said that in therapy, his IC thought that was the problem, and not me (although it does seem she is pushing for D, as these ICs do).
He also told me that he's not gotten to that in his IC work, and he doesn't feel like he's gotten very far at all with his self-work. And he'll freely admit he knows he should not be angry with me. I mean he really spilled it this past week, I listened, a lot, am now processing.
There IS a lot more to this abandonment mess than meets the eye. He doesn't know who he is, what he wants, etc. my leaving triggered something, along with a pile of other things that happened.
He said he has not been in touch with his feelings, ever, didn't know any of this, doesn't know, is very lost emotionally. He also accepts a lot of the fault of both of us not communicating.
One thing that I found interesting is that now when he has finally admitted his anger, his treatment of me has softened incredibly. He was not acting angry towards me at all, like he did during BD. He was kind, respectful, apologizing for his actions the past six months, crying.
I will try not to feel guilty about leaving him. It is true, it would have come out at some point-- something would have triggered a breakdown.
I'm going to stay steady, work on self. He is still going to IC. He's regretting huge decisions in his life he will totally admit having nothing to do with me. A few do, and I agree, but they aren't the bulk of the problem. I can't help it, I do feel some guilt, but also just deep worry about him too.
Knowing he most likely won't leave his apartment today makes me sad-- torn-- because if he were a friend I'd be sure to check up on him gently from time to time in a text. But in this case it seems like it would be pursuing.
AP, I got linux, windows, and mac on this thing. Triple boot!
"Don't blame me, blame my browser"
So, was the R with his mother ever restored, or is he not in touch with her Altair?
I also want to say that he is very much on the young side for possible MLC - more QLC? I haven't read much about QLC, but whilst crises have similar patterns - ie: life challenges, poor coping skills, projection (rather than ownership), seeking to change 'externals' running, avoidance - I think MLC has particular differences too...
I understand you want to reach out to him. But I also think he sees you as part of the problem just now. And I don't think the help needs to come from you. But I do think it is good that he is exploring all of this with a therapist.
Take care and focus on rebalancing yourself after the recent contact you had
Personally, I think you are wise to give him a wide berth. Clearly he is quite confused. Keeping yourself out of the equation helps move him foreward. I know it sounds counterintuitive but if he's not seeing you and is still miserable, how can you be the problem? Let him eliminate you as one of his problem variables.
I have read that the first 6 months after BD, they are on a high. They think escape was the elixir. I saw it with my own h who acted like a cheerleader heading to prom. Then, at about 6 months he did have the crash. It didn't fix a thing. He began to try other fixes.
So, your h is at the 6 month mark now. He may be hitting a crash. Sounds like D is his next fix though clearly it makes ZERO sense as he is confused. Sad his IC is not telling him to slow down.
Don't prop him up! I did this and it's exhausting. Those are his issues to disentangle. Focus on you!
Thank you Sotto. Yes, I have always thought QLC, but where is that forum lol. There are differences, of course, but many similarities.
No hair club for me or red sports cars, but tons of regrets and looking back and unresolved issues...so I feel OK here. Plus, *I* am of MLC age! Can I have one? Maybe I already did.
Relationship with mother never restored. I believe this is a huge problem. He never talked about it, but the more I read up on depression, this site, and so on the more I realized I think it is a huge problem.
Yes, I want to reach out and am part of the problem or at least perceived as part of the problem. He really needs to work on his issues, and he is and I am proud of him for doing so. If he were not seeing an IC I'd definitely have different opinions, but he is trying to work on himself. I also think he has quite a long road ahead of him on this work, regardless of me.
Hey Altair, wow what a lot of information for you to process! IMO, the fact that he is telling you all this is a step in the right direction and maybe it's helping to clear the air a bit between you.
I agree with Job regarding D and how a piece of paper will make him less angry. It doesn't make sense.
I was going to say something different to Sotto with regards to reaching out to him. He has poured his heart out to you which must have been very hard for him. I don't think a text asking how he is would be pursuing I think it would be caring but that's JMO...
HaWho-
I will listen to you and not prop him up! He doesn't want to lean on me, either. I found out so much this weekend. I thought he was on a high, not at all the case. I do wonder about the IC sitch. She told him not to see me for awhile, I don't know if that still stands. Or if she is behind the new "friends first but slowly" mantra. That is something I wonder about, but don't ask (see: "propping up"). He asked a lot about me, how was my apartment, my life, everything. That was quite shocking. I kept my answers brief, and like i said listened more than anything.
Hi Coly,
I agree, not everything adds up. But at least things make more sense than they did. I think, when I left, is when he started his breakdown. That does jive with friends' stories, culminating in BD. We know depressed people/qlc/mlc blame spouses very often. I think, as the years pass, that one won't stick. I hope not, but what can I do but hope that he finds healing in his tormented soul.
It has been written that unresolved QLCs are the bullet train to MLC. Looking back now, I see my h was not meeting his markers successfully, either. Probably these are issues your h should have reconciled a decade or so ago. Hopefully he will take the time to square it away now.
I would tread lightly on talking too much to his mom about anything. You may think you know many of the issues. I thought I knew the worst of it in my h's sitch. But his trip back east revealed many things I did not know. I now find it very hard to be in the same room with his mother.
For all you know abandonment may be the least of it all.
AAH yes, mistake here- when I refer to his MIL, that is not his biological mother. She is gone. My MIL is a sweet person-- but her, too, I don't get into this too deeply, I think she's worried to death about him so I try and keep things light when I say hi.
I agree- I think there is a LOT more to this story than I know. Sad and scared to find out, should I have that chance.
Each and every person goes through life's transitions, i.e., teens, 20's, 30's, etc. If we don't navigate those transitions properly, then we are on the coaster to the downhill spot of MLC. The problem in many cases is that these crisis people don't have good coping skills and were stunted emotionally at a young age, i.e., in your h's case...abandonment issues.
I agree w/HaWho on speaking to his mother. Blood is always thicker than water and you don't want her talking to her son about your conversations and putting ideas into his head. It's best to step back a bit and allow him to work on these issues since he's been projecting a lot of his anger towards you.
Give him time and space to work on these issues. Be a good listener and offer advice only if he should ask for it. For now, he needs time to process what he has talked about. He's been carrying this baggage around for a very long time and now he needs to settle in and start unpacking and revisiting those areas of pain on his own. Just remember...you can't fix him because you didn't break him, but that doesn't mean you can't be a good listener and a friend when he comes to you for support.
For now, focus on you and your health issues. You can't be there for him if you are now well.
Thank you Job. I have not spoken to MIL about any of this. He's going through a lot right now and I am letting him be. He is really concerned about my health issues, so I am trying a delicate balance of not leaning on him, and not keeping him out of the loop, as he insisted he wanted to be involved. So, working on all of this.
Altair,
Now that he's revealed some of his thoughts/feelings which learn toward abandonment...maybe the way he reacted to your conversation w/him about your health issues will now make some sense to you. His reaction was one of anger, but also, he's afraid of losing you due to a health issue, i.e., he may have thought that if something happened to you he would be abandoned again. His conversation now makes a bit more sense when it didn't at the time a few weeks ago.
Just my two cents.
I agree Job. It's complicated.
Altair - I was reading through your update and am wondering if there might be another way of looking at this.
The conversation so far appears to have discounted his wish for a D as "just a piece of paper". Yes - perhaps it is that. It is also a symbol and symbols are powerful things to some people including me. You maybe remember the agonizing that I did before removing my wedding ring. A lot of people here didn't appear to understand how important of a symbol that was do me.
I am by no means an expert on anything going on here but do have a certain amount of experience on the other side of the gender wall. From what I've read he needs that symbol to mark a finish of one part of his journey and the beginning of another. I almost wonder if it would be an idea for you to talk (with his permission) to his IC so that you can work as a team. This is very contrary to most of the advice that is given here I know which is to leave them completely alone - but he seemed to be reaching out for help to find his way. He's lost.
Just my thoughts.
Take care of yourself first though my friend.
Hi AP
I was thinking along the same lines. He's lost and floated D. He's scared and feels he's never been alone in his adult life and well, that's more than a piece of paper.
He asked me how I felt about D, then wanted to table everything and 'work on our friendship' and liked the idea of dinner in two weeks. So, this is someone who is looking at an abstraction, I doubt he's printed out the paperwork.
I'm going to consider asking about his IC, but not for awhile. I'm going to let him spin and be confused and agonize over his career, and I'll see what I will do down the line.
One point: this is what happens when you marry someone younger than you I think!! Or hasn't resolved issues!
Hey Altair, AP makes some very good points about D being a symbol of the end of one thing and the beginning of another however I don't see why you can't work on your friendship without getting a D. I don't see D as just a piece of paper in the sense of trivialising it's importance but that in his mind that piece paper will make a difference.
I think divorce is a huge deal and I can see the confusion in him when he talks of D as the start of a new relationship with you, I still don't think it makes sense. You say that he mentioned that next time around you will get married properly and not elope as you did however you have the option of renewing your vows with all the bells and whistles of a big wedding. So many options that don't require a D to make them happen.
Maybe you are right, he floated it out there to see what your reaction would be and now he knows, he has a lot of thinking to do. I am starting to feel very positive about your sitch but I think it is going to take some time just like mine! Patience, patience!!
I also think it is important to consider whether it would be okay for you to D and try to rebuild when that may not be what you want.
If you don't want that, you could always let him know that you wouldn't intend divorcing in order to start again with him from scratch. You may want to plough your own furrow in the event a D is finalised?
Coly i find it interesting you are starting to see positivity in my sitch!
I just don't, right now.
Altair my Sister - how have you been? You seem to be quieter here lately. Hopefully you have some joy happening in your life.
I'm almost to the top of the waiting list for the "Unbearable Lightness of Being" - I'm looking forward to it. One of the books that I listened to as an audio-book that I don't know if you have experienced is Viktor Frankl man search for meaning which was recommended to me by Sotto. Sort of a "super-Stockdale Principle" in concept. He goes into a lot of depth about how people cope with crisis and there are also a number of nice anecdotes such as the one man who went to him distraught after losing his wife. Frankl wrote that he asked the man how his wife would be reacting if the roles were reversed - very distraught as well he was told. Frankl then reminded the man that through his own suffering he perhaps was saving his wife from her's. Suffering with meaning is suffering much different than suffering without.
Deep stuff for a Saturday perhaps but it has helped form some of my own thinking. I think it will stick with me for a while.
On a lighter note, while going through the shelves I came across my copy of The Wind In The Willows - beautifully illustrated by Michael Hague. One of my favourite old friends that I am glad to have found again.
Take care of yourself my sister-star.
AP, I am curious about a Kundera book being read on tape (I assume for your commute). I wonder if it will be a different experience hearing it read rather than reading. I've never tried a book on tape, my commute is such that I actually might be able to try. But it is a treacherous city-commute (and wow have the potholes exponentially increased this month) and I worry it might distract me, what if I was so deep into the story I forgot that I was driving?
Altair - I've been driving long distances for so many years that having a companion such as an audio book isn't much of a distraction. It depends on the person doing the driving I suppose though. Only a portion of my driving is on congested streets too as I start from my rather rural home. I also listen while doing my ironing or other tasks around the house.
One of the many things I am grateful to the internet for is the amazing historical content that I've had the pleasure of listening to for free. Orson Wells' "The Third Man" being a particular favourite along with The Mercury Theatre (including War of the Worlds) etc. On my current list along with the usual podcasts are the Lux Radio Theatre hosted by Cecil B DeMille and The Shadow. All found for free in various nooks and crannies of the internet. For "reading" I have been a fan of the Gutenberg Project and read many books that volunteers have digitized. If you were to see my bookshelves there are many books that were published originally more than 75 years ago that are old friends.
If you wanted to dip your toes into it there is an amazing site called LibriVox where volunteer readers put out of copy-write books out as audio books. I've listened to a number of them and considered being a reader myself.
Hello all,
a little update: my health scare is looking benign! I still may need surgery but really, who cares:)
I'm doing okay, busy with all kinds of work, need to get back into the GAL workout mode- haven't exercised in awhile, feel a bit blah.
Not much on H front- y'all told me not to initiate a meeting that would have happened "in a few weeks"- and, I haven't asked. So all quiet on the western front.
I'm happy to read that your scare is looking more like a benign situation. If you need surgery, get it done and put this behind you. You can breathe a little bit easier now.
Take care of yourself.
Hey Altair, glad to hear that it's good news about your health. You deserve a bit of good news!
I can recommend getting back to exercising its doing wonders for my PMA! I noticed H was checking me out in my new skinny jeans yesterday but off course he wouldn't stoop so low as to say anything nice - weirdo!!
Sorry your H hasn't been in contact but I wonder if he is waiting for you... It's so complicated isn't it!
Hi Coly et al,
Hope all are well. I don't have much to report, but hi to all!
Hey Altair! Well I guess they say no news is good news!
How's the GAL going, are you back to your exercise regime as yet?
Hi Coly,
My exercise regime has suffered: tons of rain, car breaking down, back to back meetings and dinners and home so late I collapse. Thanks for reminding me I need to keep on this! But, even though I am not exercising, life is good. I have a birthday party tonight (lol I'll never understand adult b-day parties unless you're like, 90) with new friend/work group, and long weekend.
Sorry to hear you were upset at work...
Hi all,
Sunday, H wanted to speak to me in person, so came here to my place. He told me he accepted a job offer back East, and wanted to go alone, be set free, and D before he leaves. He told me he loves me more than anything but he needs to be alone now and work on himself. He said maybe in a few years our paths might cross again, but right now they were diverging. We cried together and he said he wanted to be friends, he wants to spend time with me before he leaves which will be in a few months. I listened, I told him the job sounded like a great opportunity. We talked late into the night, cried, ML, I slept in his arms.
This is so painful.
I don't know what to say Altair.......how very sad
So sorry Altair, not what I expected. Just sending you hugs at this time. (((Altair))). Xx
I am very sorry to read the news about your situation. I think he's being as honest as he can be for the moment. He does need to be alone and focus on himself for a while. Moving East, w/a new job offer, sounds like he's still running. He needs to be some place else where he can be the person he's become and no one will know of his past life. It's very typical of the MLCer to move, take different jobs, etc. I've seen this happen quite often.
I honestly not think it's over between the two of you. I think there is much more to be written in your life's book about your situation. For now, be kind to yourself and remember...no one knows what the future may hold for him or you at the this time.
Please take care of yourself.
Thanks all for the kind words.
Sorry Altair. Remember, thes are his issues and his poor coping skills. No one can heal those wounds for him.
Thinking of you. Take care of you.
Thank you all.
Job, I do wonder about your optimism. Why do you think this isn't over?
I think I need to just keep my head held high and keep DBing, in the best way that I can.
That's all we can do Altair. Your H seems to be running maybe that's why Job doesn't think it is over...
Hi Coly,
he is running but away from me, to a good job though. Just I'm not a part of this transition. we had coffee today to talk about a few paperwork things. He was kind, not once snippy or defensive. Just tired and sick, he said he was up most of the night, couldn't sleep. We talked about all sorts of things, current and future job, he asked about me. It was pleasant and not forced. He gave me a hug at the end. So, on my end I need to not read into a single thing, and keep those expectations super low. He asked to see me next week. I guess I need to think about if/how often to see him till he leaves.
Altair,
You are the one driving your bus. You are the only one that can determine how often you want to see him before he leaves. Does seeing him bother you?
BTW, your description of him definitely sounds like depression. They can't sleep and they get sickly. He may be running away, but his issues will be right there w/him. I wouldn't be surprised if he moves/leaves that job after a while and goes somewhere else (again).
How are you doing? Keep the focus on you.
Hi all,
just a bit of journaling. Had a few drinks the other night with H, a lot of fun. Laughing and joking and he brought up a lot of good memories we shared.
He spent the night. The next day he left stuff here so I brought it over and he told me he loved me but he needed to start pulling away from me before he leaves. How there was just things in our relationship that he wanted to fix and we didn't and now after he left and gave up is when I changed and it is now too late. How I should date and how he wants to date when he gets there. Went on this whole thing about how I'm one of the most interesting, wonderful beautiful person he's ever met but in all his therapy work he realized I'm not the right person for him. Brought up his MLC. I listened as usual (I actually don't really know what to say most of the time). I did say that no, now I am not going to date. I'm going to work on myself for now. That seemed to throw him a bit off. We are going to make an appointment for D paperwork soon. He wants his 'clean slate' taken care of before he leaves. I'm sad, but, he is running and I will let him run.
Well, he sounds like a MLCer still lost in the "fog". He has said the typical mumbo jumbo that they all say. He doesn't have any other reason to do what he's doing but to say that things didn't change/get fixed until it was too late.
Just listen and say "h, I'm sorry you feel that way" and carry on w/your life. You gave him an excellent answer about not dating and working on yourself.
Hang in there...he's got a lot of growing up to do and come to realize that life isn't greener on the other side of the fence.
Thanks Job-- I learned from the masters
He has a lot of work to do (so do I, but different work)
He still obviously thinks he wasn't happy in the relationship, and/or I did not make him happy. Minimally, I know the happiness has to come from within.
He has a lot of not-so-green grass to wade through as I see it, a lot of growing up to do (or not). Emotional growing up for sure. I'm sad but I have supportive and loving friends, good health, a good set-up, a not-ugly at all D looming on the horizon.
In weird MLC-land, he is getting my car fixed and new tires this week, giving me all of the tax return, offered me more $ over and above what we already agreed upon, will pay for D, and tells me he still loves me and always will. And says he needs to "start pulling away more."
So, just trying to take one day at a time. I have beautiful yellow tulips on my table (inspired by AP's flower runs). They certainly brighten up the room (and my day).
Hi Altair,
I'm sorry you are going through this. At least you know what you need to do to carry on your life, though I understand the pain. I experienced something similar and was actually thinking of the experience today. So weird.
Our sitchs are different- Ex and I were separated 15 montbs before he filed. There was so much time and space between us that the dust really had settled and I had done enough work on myself that there was no way he could continue to blame me on the mess, and it really could have been a blank(ish) slate to actually work on things However, he needed the D because "it was too late". At that juncture, there was no real reason to divorce, but I think working on it would have meant that he would have to take some accountability for his actions and I don't think that's an option in their MLC mind. Instead they'd rather walk away completely downhearted that this HAD to happen. And we LBSs are left scratching our heads wondering, "if they don't want the divorce and they are saddened by it, why won't they try?" They need to hold on to SOMETHING to continue to justify their actions. It's sad actually.
Enjoy those flowers... spring is coming and that is always a great time for a fresh start. Hugs!
Thank you pax_luv
Our sitches similar yet not. We have been separated for 9 months but haven't lived together for 18 months due to my moving out here for a job. But during most of that time until recently there was always 'possibility of reconciliation' etc. But not really, just something he said, probably gearing himself up, who knows. But no MC, no work done just lots of time passed, rare R talk, actually with H going through various stages of depression/mlc what have you. But like you, 'it's too late'. But it is clear he still has never stopped at least some of the blame-- I mean he is all over the map, that should be obvious to any reader.
Hey Altair, just stopping by to catch up and thank you for stopping by my thread.
It's interesting to me that although H is aware he is depressed that he would start dating again. No wonder it threw him when you said you would work on yourself before dating. Does he really believe that he has no work to do, that he can just start 'fresh' and jump into the next relationship? I suspect he will go from one relationship to another pretty quickly because as job says he is still not done.
I also hate when I read on her that the WAS has suggested that the LBS starts dating. Why do they think we need their permission to date!
I am so sorry that it has happened like this Altair with him moving so far away and to say he needs to start pulling away from you is even stranger especially has you have hardly seen him over the last few months. Does he feel that he is starting to get close to you again?
I think you handled it all so well Altair. I know I would have been a snivelling wreck had I just had that conversation.
(((Altair)))
Sounds like the guilt is having a go at him. All the things he's doing for you, etc. Guilt has a funny way of playing out w/them and I certainly accept each and every thing he wants to do for you because he may very well flip at some point and not be so favorable in doing things once he's moved.
As for the MLCers suggesting that we date...many of them make this suggestion. Why? Because if we start dating, it alleviates their guilt of doing it. When we state that we aren't going to date, but work on ourselves, it stops them in their tracks and then they have to mull it over for a while. They can't understand why we aren't out there doing what they are doing. They want to find ways to alleviate their guilt...don't give them any help with this except for accepting their help if you need it.
Coly,
I guess I wasn't a sniveling wreck because I remember this guy complaining to be about how horrible dating was many years ago! And evenings with our single friends complaining about the scene, we'd come home and he'd be like, oh my gosh I am so glad I am not single.
Here's a small pattern I think I am seeing: I have been (I think) as per DB coach, friendly, the girl he first dated. No R talk or if I slip I get out of there fast. So, over the past 9 months, the reasons for our break up keep changing. I think subconsciously he is trying to get a rise out of me so then he can say, see, there you go you haven't changed nothing has changed. I don't think he has thought any of this through.
I pity the girl who dates him next! He'll keep on with his emotional distancing- it'll be something like i can't get too close to you because i am not over my XW yet.
Once he's moved, Job, I think lots could change. He will be in a small town and knows no one there-- a first for him. As for me, I guess I'm surprised how much I miss him even though history has been re-written many times and I am an LBS through and through.
Altair - I pretty much heard all of the same stuff from my h. I also watched him go into this sort of zombie autopilot mode. He just started doing stuff that he said he had to do. I was reminded of this by your h saying "now I have to distance myself from you before I leave."
Clearly he is quite confused. And he's feeling very guilty, too. My h went through something similar. I think I "won" the MBR because of his guilt. And later on, from what I have witnessed, they get more selfish and very entitled. They start to say "this is MY time, what about ME?" My h tried to guilt me into giving him back the MBR. But he also did whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted. It was mind boggling to witness.
And yes, I pity anyone who becomes involved with a MLCer. It is a weak relationship for both parties which is why they're attracted to each other in the first place.
HaWho,
Yes, tons of guilt for sure. I guess in DBing (although its not really extensively in the books I think?) The stronger you are and don't buy into what they are selling, they seem to keep trying to figure out a way to justify it all. We don't see each other two much, although lately every week and a half or so, but when we do, it's instant connection. Laughing, talking, news, updates, hours pass in a second. But then he panics and has to say something to push me away or make sure that I know it's over. I'm just being the person a fool would leave. He should wear a warning sign for the future, however.
They definitely want to incite us to anger so they can justify their behavior.
My h looked under rocks for problems. Top complaint: I broke the yolks to his sunny side up eggs! (This was all leading up to BD when I just couldn't make him happy.)
But after BD, after I shrunk one of his sweaters, he once looked at me with icy cold shark eyes and said: "I am DONE with you!" He said it in this seething way. Then it was all so bizarre. Now, I giggle over it. It's co clear he wanted to fight. He wanted a reason to feel good about all that he was doing/wanted to do.
And he also told me to go out and meet other men! (I told him I was too busy raising my kids and boy did he look bummed.). I know that if I behaved badly then he could feel good about behaving badly.
When we remain centered and strong, from what I have seen, I do think it can cause them to question what's wrong with themselves.
Well, things on my end never got to where you are (letters, trees, texts, etc), but there are similarities in the justifications of their behavior. I have never seen a look on his face like that when I shrugged and said no, I'm not ready to date now. He fully expected tears and "but i only want youuu!!!" at least I think that's what happened. And, well, you two have kids which changes a lot.
Altair my friend - not much to add beyond a reminder that stars Shine because of what burns within them. You are able to be complete without outside fuel. Perhaps you will attract another heavenly body to orbit around you, maybe even re-capturing a lost satellite or you and another star will orbit around each other but you will each need to have your one Shine.
And anyone who hasn't followed your thread for a while is now completely lost <smile>
Thank you AP!!
So glad to hear about your D being so supportive.