I have already posted in the Newcomers section, but thought maybe I would try over here as well. Initially I thought that my H was a WAS, but after reading posts and "speaking" to several of you I now feel that he is definitely a MLCer. Not sure if it really makes a difference how I chose to continue, but it was a light bulb moment for me.
Briefly......I've been married to my husband for 10 years. I found out on November 2015 that H had been having an affair for the past 3 years of our marriage.
He states that he only had sex with the AP once, but they continued an EA for a total of 3 years. On BD I asked my husband to leave the house and he has been out since. He has been very distant for the most part, not answering phone calls, texts, etc and has mentioned several times he wanted a divorce but would never file papers. After waiting for some hope, and there wasn't any, I ended up filing for divorce in May 2016.
In June of 2016 he agreed to go to a very intensive marriage retreat for couples of infidelity. After the 3 days were over he looked at me and said "I finally get it" and was really making a lot of effort to reconcile with me (phone calls, texts, doing what he said he would do, showing affection etc). I was very guarded but hopeful. He told me he still wanted me in his life everyday and still loved me. Things were going well. We were participating in weekly phone calls with our recovery group and I was starting to let my guard down. About a month into reconciling he stated he could see old patterns and decided that he did could not commit to the process any longer. He has yet to do anything on his part in regard to the D. Has not had any IC.
The last time we spoke was the end of November and I told him I regretted filing and that I do not want the divorce. I told him that I still love him because he is my husband and I don't know how to turn that off. I had not told him ILY for a long time.
I recently bought the DB/DR books and have finished both of them
I acknowledge that I could have made better choices in my marriage, and could have been a better wife, and that likely contributed to him seeking out what he needed elsewhere. His reason for the affair was because I didn't need him enough and I didn't love him enough.
Looking back now on things that have happened since the BD, and also thinking about things he has done prior, this is a MLC.
BEFORE BD:
- working out was his highest priority
- making sure he had the "right label" on at all times
- when he turned 40 4 years ago (which is the year he started the affair) he was on social media a lot and ended all posts with "its only a number"
- hanging out with people who are 10-15 years younger then he is, which I can only suspect is to make him feel younger
AFTER BD:
- He has moved into a rental home that is the exact same floor plan of our home...seems odd to me
- bought a brand new truck
- has racked up a significant amount of debt in the year
- has had insufficient funds on several occasions
- is not being responsible when it comes to taxes (owns his own business and has not paid quarterly taxes this year)
- keeps himself really busy so that he doesn't have to stop because then that would force him to see what he has done
As a grown man his family, mostly his parents, have a significant hold on him and also still have control of decisions he makes. They have told him that they are not upset by his affair, they just want him to "move on" from this. We briefly tried to reconcile in June and when he let his mother know her response was "she needs to know that this is for her benefit only, and nothing else." His uncle told him "I hope you make the right decision" and when his father learned I had filed he said "make sure and take her for everything she has"
Anyway.....I could go on forever and no one wants that, especially not me. I look forward to hearing from those of you who have words of wisdom.
hello - i'm very sorry you are here, but you are among an amazing group of people. please keep posting and know that you are not alone. Job or Cadet will post homework for you soon. It's all information that will be extremely helpful to you as you navigate these waters. xoxoxo hugs
Welcome to this board.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmMichele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmKeep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296Things you should know as the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701017#Post2701017Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
I am very sorry that you are here. Whether he is a WAS or MLCer, the things that we do here would be the same, i.e., give them space and time. No ILYs, no relationship talks, etc.
Do you have separate accounts? If not, you may want to think about that, as well as your credit cards. If you are hesitant to separate your accounts, then you will need to keep a very close eye on them. You also may want to think about doing a credit report to make sure you don't have additional debt that is tied to you. If you are paying a mortgage, you may want to check to ensure that he hasn't taken a loan out against your home. Yes, they can and some of them will do these things and you do not want the creditors to come calling or knocking at your door w/their hands out for money. Protect yourself financially. For now, this is a business deal that has gone south.
Sounds like your h never grew up totally. He was most likely stunted emotionally at a young age either by one of his parents or another authority figure. In fact, it appears that his parents are still controlling him. He's rebelling in some ways and unfortunately, for now, you are going to be the target until he figures things out.
Listen, it's not your fault if he went out there and had an affair. He had choices and he made the wrong choice. He was an adult and should have come to you and talked about how he was feeling and then the two of you could have worked on whatever the issues were. No, don't take on that burden of feeling guilty about what he did. That is on him.
For now, work on you, keep the focus on you and continue moving forward. If he contacts you, you can be civil/friendly. Let him do the talking, listen and validate. No relationship talks unless he brings them up and if you aren't happy to hear what he has to say, then reply "I'm sorry you feel that way" and either change the subject or cut the conversation short. Don't be readily available to him. Go on w/your life as if he isn't coming back.
As for the comments from his family, consider the source because blood is always thicker than water...but you need to take care of you and not think about how they see things. This is between you and your h, not his family...again, protect yourself financially because your h isn't going to do it for you.
Please continue to post, we have a wonderful group here and we are all in this together. Some are further up the path and others are just starting out, but no matter where you are on your path, we will be here to listen, validate, offer advice and even give a few 2X4s every once in a while.
Keep the focus on you!
skm0619...glad to see you post on this side of the wall...alot of good advice on here from all of the vets. I am still very new to this also, but I am trying my hardest to adhere to all of what I am told.
It is exactly backwards to what I thought one should do, but it was said to me to do what works, not what I think should work.
Hope you have a good last few days of 2016...
It is exactly backwards to what I thought one should do, but it was said to me to do what works, not what I think should work.
Yes DB'ing is counter intuitive
Just checking in...didn't see you post anything yesterday and I was hoping that things were going well for you. I hope the last two days of 2016 go smoothly. May you have a Happy New Year!!!
Hey SBJ..thanks for checking in, that means a lot to me that even during your tough times you manage to think of others, to me that speaks volumes about you as a person
I have been doing my homework and reading the threads recommended. I had a decent last two days, tried to stay busy or GAL. I of course still and will have moments of sadness, and I honestly don't expect those to stop anytime soon, but I am learning to deal with them.
I have just finished taking 6 weeks off of work to try and do some soul searching, and to try to get my head screwed back on straight. Obviously I have not been in the best frame of mind and it was starting to have an effect on my job. Tomorrow I will head back to work and I am actually looking forward to it.
I hope you are doing well. I'm sure like me you are taking things one day at a time.
My hope for us is that the last few days of 2016 are good to us.
Job, thank you so much for the encouraging words.
To answer your questions:
Yes, we do have separate accounts. He finally closed his account (which was also in my name) last week. I was upset by that because he was not managing his money well and I did not want it to have an impact on me. Like I mentioned he has racked up a large amount of debt since separating, but all of it is in his name. But my concern is that he can not make payments then do I become responsible. He did not have any debt prior to the separation.
I have always paid the mortgage (both names are on the house). I make quite a bit more then he does financially and I do think that has always been an issue for him. I can remember one conversation after we were separated where he said he likes knowing that he can take care of things financially all on his own. But what he doesn't see is that really is not reality as he has managed to get himself into debt. He has never really had a good concept of money, his parents paid for everything for him up until he moved over to be with me. They still continue to help him financially even to this day as a 44 year old man.
As far as contact with him...he does not initiate any communication with me at all. If I text him about something he makes sure to wait as long as he can until he replies....so immature. And, when he does he is very brief and to the point.
I will never take responsibility for his choosing to have the affair. What I do take responsibility for is my actions during our marriage. I know I could have done things different and even better for that matter. But I can not change that now. What is so hard is that he never communicated with me how he felt. He just walked away and never even tried to make things better between the two of us and THAT is what is so hard for me. And, that is what keeps me in this place I am in. He abandoned me and our marriage. It is like it never really meant anything to him. He even told me that he didn't love me the last 3 years of our marriage....that really hurt me.
He is from England and when his family would come visit us in the states I tried to do whatever I could to make them feel at home and make them feel that my home was there home. They never reached out to me during this and like I mentioned earlier have made some nasty comments about me. He listens so much to them when it comes to making decisions and that is a difficult place for a wife to be. He doesn't know how to make this about me and him....he makes sure to tell his parents and sibling about things that really are none of their business. His parents even told him to lie to other family members about why we were separated. I like to refer to him as a "manchild"
Luckily I do not need him financially. I do have a concern when it comes to taxes. I guess I will just have to wait and see.
I am really trying to focus on me....it is one of the hardest things I have had to do (as crazy as that sounds). I so appreciate everyone here and all the knowledge they have to share. It is a very comforting thing knowing I can come here and have people support me.
Hope your back to work went well!
You need to consult a lawyer to know exactly what are the rules in your state. Debts in a marriage are common debts until you file for separation or for divorce. Don't wait!
Job is right be very careful about the money, MLCers have a tendency to spend and borrow a lot of money, remember in case of divorce he will get half of your house and he can also borrow money against it. His creditors can ask to put a lien on the house to be reimbursed if that's the only money available, did you think about that, that's why may be he doesn't mind accumulating debts because at the end, there is money somewhere... I don't want to scare you but to make you aware of certain things.
I know how painful it is when your husband tell you he doesn't love you, that's what mine told me in front of his OW1 (a mutual friend and his supposed soulmate) when I caught him, I will never forget that moment. It still hurts even she has been long gone.
Right now you are still longing for him and you are hurt because you are full of questions with no answers. Even if he comes back you might have no answers or just some trickle truths.
Don't put your life on hold for him, he is not putting his for you.
Live, laugh, cry, relax, look to the future you cannot change the past, stop letting him be in control of your life even when he doesn't want to be a part of it right now. It doesn't mean you don't have feelings for him or are sad about what happened but it means you are become actor of your life and stop being his "victim".
Sorry for the 2 X 4! It's something my friends did to me and my kids too. My daughter told me "Dad is an idiot, stop crying about him, he doesn't deserve it, you are great, you are beautiful, you have us, make him see what he is losing, live your life, he doesn't define you or us". It was a wake up call, not really the words I expected but she was so right. Somebody is by himself upstairs, the kids are with me downstairs and we are having a great time, who is the loser...
Engage in activities you like or new ones, you need to have your mind busy with something that will bring you some "endorphins". I know it is easier to say than to do but give it a try, I tried yoga after delaying it for many months (my friends laughed at the idea of me on a mat doing very slow moves and meditating, I am a very competitive single tennis player... guess what I loved it. Now my son wants to go with me, since Djokovic does it, he is a senior. It seems mom got her GAL.
So Skm0619, I hope I didn't offend you but I talked to you as if I was talking to my best friend, that's also the way my friends who went though that very difficult journey talked to me, they lifted me back to the top step by step (with a few glasses of wine and endless conversations), they comforted me in their arms while I was crying and sobbing. We celebrated together our positive moments, we made new memories without them, we had fun, we created a new life for only us, something our ex or still husbands will never be able to take away from us or destroy. We "are".
I wish you from the bottom of my heart a Good Year 2017.
Life is a journey, and sometimes you might be surprised to find new doors you were not aware of, open them and something new might be behind them. Keep you mind open, trust God, follow his sights. Something also I didn't expect during that journey, I was afraid of losing my faith, I didn't it went stronger, I realized God is showing us the road but we have to been willing to open our mind to his sights.
Skyhigh...great post. I went to have drinks with a couple of friends after work yesterday...both of which have gone thru D. One was alcohol related and one MLC. They both said similar if not exact things that you did. They had several 2x4's that were swung with love. Because this was not our decision is what makes this so difficult. Our spouses have been thinking of leaving for months if not years before they let us know.
One of my sons liked the Mummy movies and there was a line in the first one that said "only the destination is told...the journey is unknown". Something like that. I think happiness is our destination, but we will all travel different journeys to get there. It just [censored] that the people we thought were our forever partners left us for a false reality.
Another TV quote...my daughter watched Glee and at one point one of the girls was told..."aren't you happy...now you have everything you ever wanted". Obviously that should be applied to the ones that left, but they left us, and now we need to figure out what's next for us. If our spouses come around then we will decide whether to accept them. If they never do then we decide our futures. Either way we are in control of our own future.
skyhigh......thank you for wonderful words of wisdom.
I have already filed for divorce in May, it is uncontested as we have no children. He has not done anything on his part in regard to the divorce (has not spoken with a lawyer or found out what his rights are) as far as I am aware. He is content to just stay in his limbo. HE is the one who wanted to divorce but what I am confused about is why hasn't he pursued anything?
I do worry about his spending. I have access to his credit card online and I see it continuing to grow every couple of days. This does scare me, but according to my lawyer these are his debts because they happened after the separation so they will be his to pay for, not mine. To be honest I don't think he is smart enough to know that he can borrow against the house.
I am in the most amount of pain I have ever been in my life. He is living his life without any regard for me and that [censored]!! But, that is his choice. What is really hard for me is that he has said he not seeing anyone right now, which I am not sure I believe. I am at work right now and I now for a fact that the person I have been wondering if he is having a relationship with just picked him up to take him out for New Years Eve. So he continues to lie.
I am totally okay with the 2x4. I am the kind of person who can dish it out and who can take it
Unfortunately for me I don't really have any friends who want to talk about any of this with me. When they do talk the only thing they say is "you need to divorce him" or "I cant believe how he is acting this way" or "you need to do what you think is best" All of my friend are married and have children, and being that I do not have children we lead very different lifestyles. Their priority is THEIR family, which I understand.
I hear everyone say GAL, 180, detach but this is what I am really struggling with. I feel so alone and feel like I have been left to do all of this on my own and it is really hard. I don't call him, text or email him unless absolutely necessary so I guess I have detached somewhat, but I just don't feel like I am doing a very good job at all of this because he is consuming my every thought and I know he is NOT thinking about me at all.
I relate to feeling alone and having them on the mind all theta me, but please realize that you aren't alone. Please post when you are feeling it and know that we are here praying for you and your situation every day.
Like you I am hoping 2017 is much better than 2016 was...
Did you have any support group in your area? Just an idea.
I know people who can understand you and really feel what you are going through are the ones who went through, the others, they just don't get it. Usually they have preconceived ideas and their opinions are pretty white and black... So please keep posting, it helps to externalize your emotions and it helps also to sort them out.
Did you meet with an IC specialized with infidelity?
Did you revisit the idea of taking something to help you for a few months? It helps with obsessing ideas, I know it helped me a lot.
You are dealing with PTSD, you have been traumatized, it's Ok to look for help. Another 2X 4.
Again just more ideas!
For sure he is living his life without any consideration whatsoever for you because he is in full MLC replay, so his only concern is his "pursuit of happiness" and "youth". Don't expect anything from him, nothing for a few months.
It seems you are doing a great job about detaching, which is not easy it goes against our own instinct. But for the long run, it is better, the more you will pursue the more you will push him away. Even if it hurts you inside. Also one of my GAL, was to listen to some TED talks, that idea came from my son, so I started to listen to them during my walks, my car rides... it was my way of not listening to my obsessing thoughts and the positive side, I learned so much on so many different subjects...
Why he didn't file? Here some ideas.
- he didn't make his mind yet about the divorce, he is ambivalent, he is sitting on the fence, on one side you and on the other side the OW. Don't think because he left you he is happy, his ultra consumption of goods is a sign he is not, he is trying to fill a void right now, so even if he has OW, she is not enough. He cannot anymore blame you for his unhappiness since you are not part of his daily life anymore and you are not pursuing him, so may be he is starting to realize that being separated and "enjoying OW" are not the solution to his issues. After a while, the fantasy goes away and the reality kicks in. OW most of the time have also issues, they are dealing with their own sense of self esteem. They play it light and fun at the beginning and then they push for commitment, they nag... so the MLCer has to find ways to escape... my wife doesn't want a divorce, our situation is complicated... while never asking for one or filing for one, but he OW is clueless about that. Remember they lie to us but they lie also to others and OW. Lying is part of their life.
- OW is in a relationship or/and have children and needs time so he is not in a hurry to file for a divorce.
- OW doesn't want to commit to the relationship full time. She is starting to see him for what he is in "real life", and it's different from what she imagined it. She is starting to have cold feet. May be he is her plan B while she looks for another plan A. Remember they both have issues and are lying to each other.
- you mentioned he was from England, does he have the U.S. citizenship?
Don't expect him to tell you the truth about the OW, he will deny it until the end, mine kept denying he was cheating for months while my guts were telling me something was going on. So don't believe anything he will tell you, he just doesn't want you to know anything about his life and he wants to avoid any drama. Lying is part of MLC.
What do you know about his OW?
Is the same OW as last year?
Is she much younger?
Is she after him for the lifestyle, gifts... he can bring her?
Answering those questions can give you may be a shot about why he didn't file.
Usually if OW is the "love of their life", they file right away. Otherwise it means they are just a "toy" they like because it flatters their egos. They love OW for what they make them feel. Remember they are selfish. They are using them for what they can provide them with.
Take care of yourself, go for a walk, listen to something (so you won't think about something else), take a long shower, use those beauty products you bought and never used... do your hair, put some perfume on. Use Facebook to connect with what's going on in your town, events, fundraising...
My new goal, learning how to play piano. I will start with some you tube videos. I have a piano sitting a home and my kids gave up years ago...
Prior to going on my hiatus from work I was going to IC and it was with someone who specialized in infidelity. I did find it helpful. I was starting to do EMDR. But as I continued to go I would cry so much during the session that I started to not want to go back. Since I have been gone for 6 weeks I have not seen my IC. I am deciding whether I want to return or not. He is familiar with my H because he was one of the counselors who was at our intensive marriage retreat and was assigned to help us during those days.
I am really considering talking to someone about starting some meds to help me with the obsessive thoughts. I am totally dealing with PTSD!!
As far as the OW.....
When I found out about his affair last year the OW was (is) married and has 2 children. She does not live in the same city as we do (lives 3 hours away). The day I found out about it I made him call her and I also spoke to her and she denied everything of course. He has told me that he has not spoken to her since that day.
The NEW OW is someone who he has had a friendship with through his job for several years. He works as a sports massage therapist and has MANY female clients and she is one of them. When we were first separated she sent him texts messages asking him to go out "as friends of course" but then continued to be flirty with him, and I know they text and speak often. When I have brought her up he says "she is not my girlfriend" and is very protective and defensive of her. She is the one who he went out with last night for NYE. She is someone who works out a lot which is very important to him, she is younger then him, but not much, is divorced and does not have any children either.
I think he has bought her a Christmas gift but I can not be certain. I think that they are flirty with each other and if it hasn't happened already, I feel they will be moving the relationship to be more intimate very soon. She is aware that he is still married, but I wouldn't put it past him to tell people he is divorced even when he isn't. He cant offer her anything she does not already have. He used to talk about her before we were separated and she has her own business, and owns her own home. She seems to be doing well on her own financially. He CAN NOT support anyone financially, he can barely make his own bills.
He is from England. He does not have citizenship but does have permanent legal residency because of our marriage. I have asked him to move back to England but he says "this is my home now."
He is ALWAYS discussing his problems with other females, and craves female attention. Like I mentioned earlier, he is British and women seem to be attracted to him because of that. He is very charming too and will say and do all the right things because that's what makes HIM feel better.
I do know that he has signed himself up for Landmark Forum. I am unfamiliar with this but have read a few things about it. My IC says it is going to be tough on him because he is not someone who opens up emotionally at all, and this forum can be brutal on people. I'm sure I will not know how that goes for him because he will not share any of it.
I'm mentally exhausted, but I don't really think I have anyone to blame for this but myself. I know what I should do but SH*T it is hard!!
I appreciate everyone here. I could not make it through any of this without you
.
I just reread your previous post about you filing for divorce
"He is the one who wanted to divorce but what I am confused about is why he hasn't pursued anything"?
MLCers like to push their spouses to file for divorce (by telling us I don't love you, I am feeling nothing for you, it's over...) like that they are shifting the blame/decision of the divorce from them to their spouses, from abusers they become victims in the eyes of others (society). He didn't pursue anything, may be he wants you to do the heavy lifting.
Now do you still want the divorce?
- If yes, the proceeding will keep going.
- If no, call your lawyer and ask him to suspend the process (you are reconsidering your position and taking a break from the process). Then wait to see if your husband will react to it. It can also give you an idea of his position and it might stir something between your husband and OW, if she thinks he is divorced or might get it very soon. Remember they are lying to OW too most of the time.
Mine told OW1 (I had a few conversations with her after they were done, she was feeling so guilty and so afraid of me spreading the news to her kids and others), that he asked for a divorce and I refused, he never asked for one and I do remember asking him if he wanted one, he said no. But it was his twisted way (lying again) to keep her going on with the relationship (he liked how she was making him feel) while she wanted more of it (him leaving me),he was ambivalent, deep down he just didn't want to have to choose, he knew it was going to be a major decision, meanwhile he was nasty with us, probably trying to push me to file so the decision at the end would have been mine, and in his twisted mind he could have said to others, "my wife wanted it" shifting the blame of the divorce from him to me .
Remember their mind is different from us, they are in their own world.
She believed all his promises, all his words, all his lies... Remember they are stroking each other egos.
Spread the news to whom might still be in contact with your husband/OW during a casual conversation, that you are not divorced and things are in suspend (you are reconsidering your position for a while). Then wait!
Bottom line It's up to you to decide what do you want to do at that moment, knowing it's ok to change your mind later on. Sometimes I feel that dealing with a WH is like playing chess. Game plan is everything. I messed up so much at the beginning.
I learned something, don't show your cards, always keep your real intentions for yourself, they are manipulating us so why not doing the same to give us some time to think about what we really want, acting instead of reacting. They have been pushing our buttons and thinking about leaving us for years but it is new for us, we need time to stabilize our thoughts, think ICU versus rehab center.
Replay phase can last from 1 years to 4/5 years or more, 2 years being the average.
Replay usually starts at BD.
Also why such an accomplished woman as you describe her is going after a married man who has issues? She must have a few herself.
That's something I realized, my husband other women, even if from the outside looked pretty good, they were damaged somewhere. I just realized they were so desperate to be "loved" that they were stroking his ego non stop, something he couldn't resist, he liked the feeling of it but he didn't really care about them. They were pretty nice at the beginning but with time they started to have demands "as a wife does", something that he was not expecting.
Remember time is your ally even if it is nerve wrecking.
If you want to have another chance at your relationship with him, don't make your divorce easy on him, being married is right now the only connection you have still with him after that ... specially if you have OW waiting to take your spot.
I am passing down to you what I learned from my mistakes, my trials and from what was passed downs to me by my friends who shared that same journey. I am still in the process, I don't know how it will end, but right now I have the OW out of the picture and him thinking about what he did and in what mess he put himself in, he is not sharing his mind with me but from his actions I can tell. Men are not like women, they don't talk about feelings they show them by their actions, in their own masculine ways.
Good night dear Skm, try to sleep,
"I am in the most amount of pain I have ever been in my life. He is living his life without any regard for me and that [censored]!! But, that is his choice."
In your very first post here you said that he cheated on you because he felt that you didn't love him enough and didn't need him and you agreed. What did you do to change that?
Sometimes you have to let the time go by so that the changes really sink in.
Skyhigh.....as always thank you for your words of wisdom.
I have been thinking for the past 3 months that I really wanted to file a non suit in regard to the divorce. Basically meaning I am no longer interested in moving forward with it, and since he has not done anything on his side of things it would be simple. I actually mentioned it to my lawyer a while ago and he gave me the legal documents that I needed and all I had to do was take them to the court house to file them. For some reason the papers have been sitting on my counter and I would look at them often, but would never file them. Today I finally decided that since I never really wanted the D that I would take the paperwork to the courthouse....so I did. So if my H wants a divorce he can do all the leg work.
I'm not really sure why I am telling everyone this, but I just needed to let "someone" know.
On a different note.....I took my dog to the vet today and he needs surgery. It has been scheduled for tomorrow. I do not initiate communication with my H unless necessary. He loves this dog like crazy so I felt like he should know, so I sent him a text. Unfortunately that was 7 hours ago and he has not responded. Makes me sad to think that he can not find it in himself to at least check up on his sweet precious dog.
Mr Bond.....
I did post that the reason my H gave me for his infidelity was that he felt that I did not love him enough or need him enough. For me those were justifications on his part. This was never communicated to me prior to finding out about the affair because if it had been I would like to think that I would have done anything and everything to make things right because I loved him the best I knew how. I asked him on multiple occasions if he was happy and if not was there something I was doing that was making him feel that way. I used to have very vivid nightmares about him having sex with someone else and would mention that to him and he would say "sweetheart, I would never cheat on you" when in fact he was. I also asked him on several occasions if he was seeing someone else because he had become distant, and each time he would say there was no one else.
Unfortunately I was not given the opportunity to try and change any of that because the day I found out about the OW I asked him to leave the house and he has not been back since. He has not shown remorse, regret or any other emotion when it comes to what he did. So when I say I am in the most amount of pain I have ever been in I really mean that. This man walked away from me and our marriage and did not even try to work on it at all, and to me that is selfish and not to mention unfair....and that makes me very sad.
I am working hard on trying to become a better person. I am giving myself time. Now, if that time is also allowing him to see who he was during the OW and after that would be wonderful. But as we all know I have absolutely no control over what he does.
"I did post that the reason my H gave me for his infidelity was that he felt that I did not love him enough or need him enough. For me those were justifications on his part."
I get that but did you know WHY he believed that? Do you agree with what he said? Even through your actions afterwards, it sounds like you are the type that needs to be in control of a situation. Maybe that's why he believed you didn't need him. Did you maybe criticize the things he did or maybe say something in a way that you thought was joking but he didn't?
"This was never communicated to me prior to finding out about the affair"
None of this ever is. But maybe there were ways that he communicated it to you without speaking. Did he shut down when you talked about how he did something? That's a way of communication.
"because if it had been I would like to think that I would have done anything and everything to make things right because I loved him the best I knew how."
And that's the key. Good M skills aren't natural. They're learned.
"Unfortunately I was not given the opportunity to try and change any of that"
You said you read DR. If you did, you would see that just because there is another person or even a divorce, you still can change it. The point is whether or not you want to. You seem like the very "matter of fact" type of person. Your M can still be saved. You just have to want to make the changes.
Now I want to stress that your actions are not to blame for your H seeking someone else, but if you want to save your relationship, YOU have to be the one to change.
You said you read DR. If you did, you would see that just because there is another person or even a divorce, you still can change it. The point is whether or not you want to. You seem like the very "matter of fact" type of person. Your M can still be saved. You just have to want to make the changes.
Now I want to stress that your actions are not to blame for your H seeking someone else, but if you want to save your relationship, YOU have to be the one to change.
Mr. Bond...not meaning to hijack, but...
I have read the DR book and am struggling with the whole...how am I going to save my M when it is imminent that we are going to be divorced in the near future and she doesn't want to fix our M. I am becoming a better version of myself for me and my children, but should I embrace the D as something that she has to complete (as our original M is dead anyway)? Should I do what I said I would never do and totally let her go? That seems to be the advice mostly found on here...drop the rope and don't be afraid of losing them. Totally counter intuitive, but seems that I have no choice in the matter. Not to mention that it is totally against my moral views...I hope and pray this is the right thing for me to do.
Mr Bond......
Let me say that a lot of what you are saying is true, and I acknowledge my faults in my M, and I have no doubt that I did things to make my H feel that I didn't love him or need him.....no question about that. Could I have done things differently, absolutely. The sad part for me is that I wish he felt like he could have communicated his feelings to me, other then by shutting down or choosing to have an affair.
As far as being the type that likes to be in control...there is definitely truth to that as well. I think that all of us have some need to want to be able to control certain aspects of our lives. That is why this process is challenging because I only have control of myself in this. I am choosing to make better choices and can hope that those choices can help me to become a better version of me.
I am a very "matter of fact" type of person. Is that a good or bad thing, I'm not really sure? I am learning who I am as I go along this journey and definitely hope that I am able to look back at things and see how I have changed for the better.
If I am honest, and that is really the only way I know how to be, I was a bit taken back by everything that you said to me (nice big 2x4). Why, probably because there is a lot of truth in all of it and it struck a nerve. As I go through this process...as painful as it is to have someone point out your faults to you
....it is not done to hurt me, but to help me.
One thing I know for certain though is that I will never take responsibility for his infidelity, he made that choice.
Hi I hope your dog's surgery went well.
It's sad he didn't contact you back but it's typical of MLCer behavior while they are in limbo, their priorities become different. They are distancing themselves from their loved ones. It's hurts but sadly it's "the norm", their norm.
Just keep him informed in a very formal manner, facts no emotions, it might help him to get in touch with you without "being afraid" of any emotional pressure. I know you just want him to be just informed but remember their mind is in full limbo, we are "the reason of their unhappiness', and they want to avoid at all any emotional/pressure conversations. They have a strong tendency to interpret and twist anything the wrong way. So what I found the best is being polite/formal as if you were dealing with your boss and writing/reporting an event for a formal report being read later on by the C.E.O.
It seems you are more in control of the journey imposed to you by him.
I know how sharp is the pain in your heart, how it takes sometimes the breath away, how it can also numb you. So don't get mad at yourself we went through that, some days are better than others. But once you get in charge (making decisions you decide not you were forced to take) and get your mind busy, you will notice that you will be looking at your own situation and the critical thinking will take over the emotional thinking.
Did you read the excellent description of the different phases of MLC by Conway or by Heart Blessings (their writings made me understand exactly what to expect, what to do and what not to do)?
Big hugs to you and my best wishes for your dog,
The reason why I was able to determine your personality is because mysel and the other vets have seen many like you before. The issue is that you seem to believe that because he's with another woman you can't try. That's not what DBing is all about. You STILL make those changes but you learn to make them to make you better. Start learning how to compliment rather than criticize. Start learning how to communicate better with others. Start sharing responsibilities and not controlling.
It doesn't matter that he's not there. It's how my W came back.
Skyhigh.....
Thanks for asking about my dog. He tore his ACL and had to have it repaired. Surgery went well, so now we are on the road to recovery. It will be a long road but we will make it
I finally did hear from my H about the dog MANY hours later. For me it was like why bother responding after that length of time. I know that it doesn't take 10 hours to write 3 lines in a text message. This is a man who doesn't go to the bathroom without his phone so I know he got the message much earlier. I am learning that his head is in such a weird place right now and he doesn't know if he is up or down. I also know that he has no idea how to respond to me. I am taking your advice about keeping him informed on a formal level. I did let him know after surgery things went well with his dog, but again no reply and it has been more then 15 hours since I sent that text
Before I would have sent him a text spewing all kinds of negative things, accusing him of not caring and saying mean things to him and blah blah blah. Now, I am having no expectations from him. That is the only way for me to not allow myself to get into that head space.
I like what you said about once I start making decisions on my own and not ones I was forced to make that things will start to look different. I am trying to really let things go...it is hard, but I'm trying. I am also trying not to have any expectations because that only sets me up for heartache.
I did read the description by Hearts Blessing about the MLC, but I am going to go and read it again.
Mr Bond.....
I am making changes to make me better. This is a difficult and challenging process to go through and I am allowing myself to make mistakes along the way. I think that is the only way I will really learn what is best for me.
What I am also learning is that initially my intentions were to do what I thought I needed to do in order to get my H back and make my marriage better. But what I found along the way was that even though the communication between my H and I is very rare, mostly non existent, I can still work on me. It is a foreign concept to me, and it will take me time and I am giving myself that time.
I am slowly learning that it doesn't matter that he isn't here.
Sorry about the puppy operation. I too was left with the pets. She says that her landlord won't allow them...by them, I mean 3 dogs and 2 cats. I am not a cat person, but she and my two youngest had to have them...now they are my responsibility. Two of our dogs are 15 plus and sure to have big bills soon, and one of them is the size of a horse and eats like one. Her parents never allowed her to have pets as a child and told her once she married she could have all she wanted...haha, now she leaves them with someone she knows will take care of them while she leaves him behind. While I am a bit frustrated by it, I love my dogs...the cats, not so much, but I tolerate them for my kids.
I like what you said about once I start making decisions on my own and not ones I was forced to make that things will start to look different. I am trying to really let things go...it is hard, but I'm trying. I am also trying not to have any expectations because that only sets me up for heartache.
That is the hardest thing for me as well...switching my mindset from the we to the me. I have done things for 25 years for the married couple we were.
What I am also learning is that initially my intentions were to do what I thought I needed to do in order to get my H back and make my marriage better. But what I found along the way was that even though the communication between my H and I is very rare, mostly non existent, I can still work on me. It is a foreign concept to me, and it will take me time and I am giving myself that time.
I am slowly learning that it doesn't matter that he isn't here.
Your last line really spoke to me...it doesn't matter that she isn't here. I'd like it if she was, but I am strong enough to handle what life throws at me. With her or without her I will be who God wants me to be.
SKM
Seen your post about social media on SBJ's thread. Its quite normal for them to do that as a sort of validation, they feel if they can get 10 'likes' its just confirmation that what they are doing is right all along which is contrary to that little voice they continuously try to hush as they run deeper and deeper into the tunnel.
My MLC'r blocked me moons ago which was probably the best thing she could have done for me, I would highly recommend any LBS'r who has someone in MLC to block them on social media as its very much like snooping and we all know what happens there .... best to let them go cray cray on their own and save that wasted energy and apply it to something much more constructive.
"I am slowly learning that it doesn't matter that he isn't here."
Good. And how can you speed that along? YOu have to start believing it.
I totally agree with you, that's a challenging and difficult process. I took me a few months to master the "Zen attitude" a.k.a. detaching. It's a tough road and making mistakes is part of it, we are human, we are learning from them.
At first, those thoughts were so obsessing, I remember that I couldn't think about something else (I had so many oops.. my brain was down the drain) but I thought I could deal with them (PTSD, silly me)... the college visits and the applications were around the corner so one day after I just couldn't take it anymore (crying, sobbing, not be able to function as a "normal" mom) I made an appointment with my GP and asked him to help me (while crying), he prescribed Wellbutrin (6 months) and Ambien (1 month), they worked very well, finally I was able to let it go for a few hours... and be more outgoing and sleep. I am off from them.
It's good that you are starting to have no expectations from him because sincerely while they are in limbo, they are "different". It doesn't mean he won't keep hurting you emotionally from time to time, but if you have no expectations, the hurt will go down tiny bit by tiny bit.
Something crossed my mind, it's just an idea, may be you can keep him updated once or twice a week about your dog, add a picture... just to keep some kind of connection with no pressure. Sometimes pictures are better than words. Don't expect any answer, but he will know that you are still "caring" for his feeling but without requesting anything, something like being the "lighthouse". Again that's just an idea.
Avoid spewing at all cost (that's the toughest), it reinforces the thought they were right about what they did, it validates their actions. It makes them running away even faster. And if they are ambivalent they will be leaning on the other side. Negative points for us.
Don't expect him to express any remorses or regrets anytime soon, it might take years... men usually don't express feelings or remorses verbally but more through their actions.
Courage, you are stronger than you think. Believe in yourself even if right now you are full of doubt, anger and sadness.
I actually had a good day today. I think it was the first day that I didn't cry or shed a tear in a while. PROGRESS
CaliGuy:
Thank you for posting. I agree with you on the social media postings, and their need for validation. My H used to post very frequently on all the sites prior to his affair. I can remember one incident where I was going to have surgery and he posted on his FB about "getting ready to go to surgery" and he got all these comments wishing him well etc. Everyone thought it was him having the procedure because he MADE it all about him. Just another way for H to validate how he thinks that what he is doing is the right thing, and because they don't know how to get what they need from themselves so they need others to give it to them.
SBJ:
I am feeling good about how I am doing right now, but I know that I am going to have my set backs and days where I feel weak....no question about that. I just hope that with all the support I keep getting from everyone here that it will help me get through the tough days. I know that we are both struggling, but I also know that we are strong. I read a quote today that said “you never know how strong you are until strong is the only choice you have.”
As far as my dogs....I honestly don't think I could have made it through this past year without them. As I have mentioned, I don't have children so these two are my kids
They gave me companionship and they did not allow me to feel lonely when I was alone.
Mr Bond:
It has been over a year since I found out about the OW. I know for some, that may seem like a long time, but for me it is still a very vivid moment that feels like it just happened yesterday. For me to finally start to come to the realization that "it doesn't matter that he isn't here" is still early for me. I can feel some of the old me coming back, as well as some happiness. So I guess you could say that I am "starting to believe it." I just have such a hard time with the fact that he makes no effort to communicate with me. It is as if I never existed.
Skyhigh:
I always appreciate and look forward to your comments to me. I appreciate your suggestions on how to handle certain situations. I agree that I need to be the one to keep him in the loop about the dog. I know that he enjoys hearing about them, and I know that he is sad about the whole surgery situation. I also know that he wants to help me with them he just doesn't know how to do that. I just wish he would make some effort to check on them. Prior to my leaving for 6 weeks he would come and check on them while I was at work often. Now that I am back he has not made any effort.
I did feel pretty good with myself that I managed to keep it together and not send a text spewing how I felt about how he was acting. When ever we would speak I always managed to get in there what a piece of sh*t I thought he was, or that all of my hurt and anger was his fault or I would berate him for the affair. After I did that I would feel awful about it. That is not who I am and DO NOT want to go back to that place ever again. I remember him telling me that e never knew I had "so much venom inside of me."
I am a strong person and I forgot how strong I really was because this whole situation has really knocked me on my ASS!!
'I just have such a hard time with the fact that he makes no effort to communicate with me. It is as if I never existed'
Too much emphasis on him again. What are your goals as detailed in DB and DR?
HI
You are still pretty new at this and it definitely takes time to adjust grieve and accept
We are always moving forward toward acceptance..sometimes we step back and thats ok too
Just continue to do as you are taking good care of you,,crying when you need to, reaching for support reading resting sleeping and try to eat-
I can promise you that it will get better for you
as time goes on you will see into the unhappy live of the MLCer and the OW is simply a bandaid usually they affair down and pick a younger gal with a lot of issues-it will be for them to work out in the end..most A will not last and even if they do they will never find the utopia they left to get
So glad you had a good day. I wish you many more.
While I was reading your latest post a few questions came to my mind. You must know me by now, I am the brainstorming lady... Remember they are just ideas.
Does he still have free access to your home?
If yes, remember to lock your computer and delete the history, and hide your DB books. MLCers do snoop +++, I realized mine was snooping when he didn't put back some papers in their envelopes or in their usual places, I am super organized. I was quite surprised coming from somebody who could care less about my whereabouts.
Did he use to let you know when he was coming to check on the dogs?
If no, you might let him know that it will be preferable, so you can stage your place (travel books, seminars, sports activities, 5K... may be something else it's up to you) so he can have a sense of you changing/living well even without him.
You wrote " I also know that he wants to help me with them he just doesn't know how to do that.", may be you can ask him to help you in a very friendly manner and be specific. Can you take the dogs to the park so they can run/exercise or with you because ... ? Can you take them to the vet?
It could help him to reconnect with you without emotional pressure/reconciliation talks if he wishes to do that. It's a way to open a door, to lend a hand with no pressure.
Just remember it's a long journey and progress, if there are any will be very slow and very subtile.
If he contact you or speak to you, watch your language +++, MLCers are very "sensitive" to words, they have a strong tendency to interpret and twist words and thoughts to either valid what they did or to valid the decision they should take if they are ambivalent and cannot decide. Ambivalence is very often present but they don't express it, they are trying to figure out what they can change in their life to feel better and younger, but usually nothing works for long and then they realize they have to make a real life decision for good, but still cannot decide (again the twisted MLCer mind), so they look to others reactions to decide, to go on either side of the fence. So if you try to push him to your side (reconciliation talks, emotional pressures, spew, talking about the AP...), he will go to the other side, away from you.
Anyway with him or without him, you need to believe in yourself, you are strong. You can live by yourself and thrive, I know it's a "tough" concept to grasp, but time is on your side. Step by step... Somehow this journey made me a even better person, I became so empathetic to others while I wish I never had to go through it.
I remember trying to help a student whom from polite became very "moody" in 2 months of time, when suddenly in my mind I had that light bulb (may be he is going through a tough time at home, I knew nothing of his personal life and didn't ask), so I went to talk to his counselor and to the school psychologist to voice my concerns, they did some research and found that he was living with his grandmother and she was dying of cancer, he was afraid of being homeless with no place to live and nobody caring for him. We figured out a solution so he didn't have to be in foster care... what were my issues compare to his?
I no longer wait for my husband to validate me, if he makes a compliment I appreciate it but I know my value. I am valuable and lovable even without him so you are.
Have a nice week end, sleep, relax, watch a comedy with your dogs snuggling next to you. Be.
Hi peacetoday......thank you for taking time to give me some kind words. Kicking and screaming I am learning that taking care of me really is the best thing to do right now. I'm not sure what clicked inside of me but something did. I just hope that this continues.
I am not certain that there is another OW, but that really shouldn't matter anymore. What I am trying not to do is look back on how I was when we were married because all that does is make me sad. It makes me see that I was not the best version of myself and I did not treat him how I should have, and is that what made him cheat? Like I have said before I know I contributed to how he felt during our marriage and I acknowledge that I could have most certainly done better. BUT I will not accept responsibility for his choice to have an affair.
I know he is struggling emotionally, not to mention financially. He has to figure that out on his own and I really hope that he does. I don't think he is happy right now with who he is. I do think he enjoys being on his own and not having to make decisions based on what someone else might think about it, or how they would react to it.
I think I mentioned that he is going to a Landmark Forum in February which is a 3 day intensive forum to help people with their personal goals. Maybe he will get some benefit from it.
Skyhigh....
Yes he does still have access to the house. He will usually text or call me to tell me that he is going to see the dogs. He does not come when I am home obviously.
I don't have any issue with him being here when I'm not. He has even changed my air filters and done small things around the yard for me before, without my asking, which is nice. I will definitely keep an eye on my things.
Since I have returned from my trip he has not made any effort to contact me to see the dogs, and he is aware that we are back.
I mentioned to you that I sent him a text about how our dog did after surgery. That was on Wednesday and he still has not responded to that text. I was thinking since I am working this weekend I would ask him if he could help, especially since the little one will be in his crate all day. I do have a friend coming to check on them, but I know she wont give the attention to them that he would.
I just don't know how much or how little I can reach out to him and have him not acknowledge me. I guess that is the "no expectations" thing everyone talks about.
I have been on my own for over a year now. I did not think I would last one week in the beginning. I do still cry and am still very sad, but I cant let that keep me from becoming better.
I have found that I am more aware of how I speak to people and how I interact with them. I work in a stressful environment dealing with people's lives, and I am learning to be more sensitive to their needs. In the past when a tough conversation needed to happen I used to say I need to have a "come to Jesus" with them. Well I guess this was a "come to Jesus" for me
When I read the 6 stages of a MLC I was shocked at how accurate it was. It was like it was describing my H. He is totally ambivalent also. I know that he mentioned to his parents that he was having a tough time trying to make a decision about his life. Now, that was back in November so I am not sure what he is thinking now.
I hope you are right when you say "time is on my side" because sometimes I feel like enough time has passed and nothing has really changed.
Even though you may think things haven't changed, they are changing each and every day. Look at how far you have come! As for your h, you can't see the changes because they are changes that need to be made internally within his heart, soul and mind. He's got a lot of healing to do and that is going to take some time, this crisis has been building up for many years and finally bubbled up to the surface.
If your h hasn't responded back to you about the dog's surgery, then I suspect he can't deal w/the fact that the dog was ill. MLCers have a difficult time dealing w/death, illness and people/pets that are ill. If you text him about coming over to help w/the dog, I would suggest that you just say something like "h, I'm working this weekend, would you be able to come over and check on the dog while I'm gone?" Leave it in his ball park to decide whether to say yes or no...but keep your expectations very low.
As for the 6 stages of MLC, use it as a guideline, but don't rely on the timelines as they will vary from person to person, as each person is unique and so is their crisis and it will take as long as it takes for them to go thru it or remain stuck. Posters who have read the stages tend to be so focused on them and try to map out when their spouses started which stage and how long that stage will last. Unfortunately, that's not how MLC works...the stages are not linear, but that the MLCer can and will bounce back and forth through the stage 2-5 for quite some time.
I do think you've got a good handle on your situation. I do hope the dog is recovering well and I'm sure you are giving him/her all of the love and attention that will help him/her heal faster.
Nice post Job!
Try to send him that message, may be he needs a non pressuring sign from you, since apparently he does "act of kindness" when he comes around the house.
Job...
Thank you for the post. The dog is recovering. He is limited on mobility right now and that is making things difficult for both of us.
I'm sure things are changing I just don't see them. I am the type of person that needs to see things in order to understand them.
As expected I have not heard back from the H about helping with the dogs this weekend. And I suspect I will not hear from him either. He used to ignore me for weeks at a time when he first moved out of the house.
I also think he is spending more time with this new OW, and can not be bothered with me or the dogs right now. My gut is telling me that is the case, and my gut has been right in the past when it came to her and also other issues with him (like finding out about his affair).
I might sound like I have it together and that I am making the right decisions and learning, but in all honestly I don't really think I am
My every thought is about him and what is he (and she) doing.
2 Corinthians 5:7
For we walk by faith, not by sight.
Give your H and your M to your higher power to work on...then all you have worry about is yourself. Easy for me to say as I am also struggling with it, but I am trying. As they say...one day at a time.
So sorry he didn't contact you but sadly your gut's feeling might be right.
Trust them most of the time they are right. That's something I wrote in a letter to my daughter for her AP English class project, I regretted not trusting them earlier.
You are a wonderful caring and courageous nurse, remember what you are giving to your patients is never lost, you are touching their life in such intimate level when they need it the most. I know first hand how tough it is to work with very sick patient, how depressing sometimes it could be, but remember you are making a difference. You are valuable et lovable. Never forget that.
Keep working on yourself as tough as it is, it will become better (not overnight), find your "endorphins". Write a list of what you would like to do and then implement a step by step plan. Remember there is always set backs and delays and that's just part of life.
Bye, I have to fix my kitchen faucet...not really my "endorphin" thing but it has to be done... since somebody is sick with the cold and acting as a big baby upstairs...
[b]I sent my H the text asking if he could help with the dogs at 7:05pm Friday evening and he answered me at 10:15am Saturday. I am just curious what has him so busy that it takes him 15 hours to answer a text?
I ended up calling and speaking to him (after I asked him first if it was okay to call). I haven't spoken to him since November. He was nice. I did ask him how his holidays were and he made DARN SURE to tell me that he has been out socializing. He only asked me how I was and how my holidays were AFTER I asked him how he was. He said he would help with the dogs, but made DAMN sure he told me....not once but twice....that he had plans tonight so he would do his best to get over to them.
My friend texted to see if he was going over so I texted him and of course it took him 30 minutes to answer me. We couldn't wait so she went to check on them herself. When he finally answered he said he was sorry, he was sleeping (not really sure I believe that)??
It took everything I had not to let him know that I am aware he is seeing someone and I would appreciate it if he would be respectful of me when he is out with her. BUT....I decided not to say anything to him.
I was very nice, and was very upbeat and complimentary with him about things. I thanked him for helping me out with the dogs. I just want you to know that was VERY DIFFICULT for me to do!! I felt like I was having to bite my tongue!!
I asked him if he was okay, and did it feel weird speaking to me and he said it was weird, but not really weird, it was just that we had not spoken in a while. How am I going to do this? I don't know if I can continue to be this way knowing he is not willing to make an effort to speak to me, and not to mention carrying on with someone new?
WHO IS THIS MAN????
SBJ....
I honestly don't know how I am going to do this. After speaking to him today and him acting like this is the norm?!?!?!
I really wish I had a strong enough faith to turn it over to a higher power, but I don't.
SKM
this is hard
The best I can say is pretend you are an academy award actress
and act as if
How do we bite our tongue when we want so bad to let them have it-
Discipline, courage , strength practice prayer and more prayer
You did it once so that show you and me -you have it in you
You are right it is really difficult --for now
walk the road and it will get easier
God sees our willingness to do whats right and you will be taken care of now and in time-
peacetoday.....thanks for your words.
I so badly want to tell him off but, I know that I am really working on those types of reactions. But O M G it is hard!!!
Does it really get easier?
Is this really what I want to be doing in my life?
Is this man really worth it?
Why do I feel that he deserves any of my goodness when he has treated me so poorly?
What kind of person treats another human this way?
I know that I am the only one who can answer those questions.
SKM,
asking yourself questions is good. It's all we can do, right now, and work on ourselves (said ad nauseum)
Chin up!
It is for us not for them
we practice this for us
all the good you do will help him but it is for you
we become the kind of people we want to be-even when we have been hurt
we take the high road
yes, it gets easier and if you read the threads you will see similar patterns over time:
the LBS usually moves on
they are successful in many ways
We find hobbies, jobs and create happiness for ourselves
We sometimes restore the M or find another and better R
WE have better R with our kids and the kids turn out ok through it all
the MLCer usually fails in many areas unless they find help:
they may go through many R or just be miserable with OW
They may loose their job or have much debt
they usually live in addiction and denial
many Mlcers have bad/no R with their kids or family
Hang in there
This is temporary
But for now there is no where else for you to really go as you have to review the M and heal and grieve and it takes time before you are really ready to move on-
I know exactly what you mean...this is extremely difficult. This is the hardest thing I've ever gone thru, but I'm realizing that I'm not alone. There are a great number of us standers that are wanting to save and preserve our marriages. We are all here for each other. We are the only ones that know what you are going thru. We are living it with you. There are also a lot of us here that are praying for you...not just for your situation, but also for your trust and faith in God. Actually for your eternal soul. Please know that we are here with you and for you every day.
Peace be with you...
Thank you altair, peacetoday and SBJ. Your words and support are so appreciated.
I learned of the affair November 23rd 2015 and kicked him out of the house that day and he has never been back. I used to find reasons to call him, and reasons to see him. I used to beg, cry, rage, scream and do all of those things. I was willing to do anything to get my M back.
Almost one year to the day (November 26th 2016) of learning about the affair, I joined this board and only lurked around reading as much as I could. At first I didn't get DR/DB books but I eventually did buy them and read them in like 2 days. I wanted to absorb everything I could.
I have only been DBing for the past 6 weeks. I know that I have changed and that my choices are better. I handle situations differently and look at things in a different light since starting. I know that all of this is to make me a better person, I just wish I could see it that way.
I know this is temporary what I am feeling, and thank goodness for that because I am not sure how any person could feel like this for an extended period of time.
Despite what he says to me I know he is suffering. I know that he has no clue who he is and probably doesn't like the person he has become. He will never admit that. He is my H and I love him and I just want him to figure it out.
I want to be able to let go, GAL, 180, detach, act as if and all things everyone is telling me, and I know that once I am able to do all of those things only then will things get easier and better for me.
I just want these obsessive thoughts to be gone from my mind.
Keep praying for me (us) SBJ....
You are changing, you are starting asking yourself questions.
You are starting to look at your situation with some "critical thinking", you went from reacting to acting. That's a huge progress.
MLCers love to brag about their life, they have also a "huge tendency" to embellish and add to it. Even if you don't ask them any questions they will find a way to brag about something. They are always in need to shine, to feel important, to feel the center of attention.
I like the post of Peacetoday about LBS and MLCer, so true.
I know how tough it is to hold it and bit your tongue, welcome to the club of best actresses (lol).
Yes I know-
It is hard and it is painful
Lean into the pain embrace it and let it heal you
IC is very helpful with a therapist who can support your choice to stand-
someone that can help you grieve and get back on your feet
It will take time to fully give the M..give yourself time
and being on the board is a transition period for many until we can get on our feet
we understand and support each other
If we try to skip over this part, we will not fully heal so really there is no where to go except within and take the best care of yourself as you can
Many of us have successfully made it to the other side of this and you will too no matter how hard it seems
the pain will pass
Hi skyhigh. Obviously I have not posted lately.
I have been having some really sad days this past week and I just couldn't bring myself to post anything. Nothing new or particular is making me sad it's just those awful mood swings
I did have dinner with a friend recently who I hadn't seen in a while, so that was nice. She and I had a very good talk about my situation, and she confided to me about some very personal issues she has been having as well. After speaking to her I felt better in the sense that I didn't feel alone in my thoughts. She allowed me the freedom to express how I was feeling, and not be scared or judged for saying certain things. I haven't really been able to express some of those things to my other friends, so it was nice to be able to get that out.
The support from everyone here is wonderful....no question about that, but I sometimes feel like reading everyone's sitch makes me more sad. I hate that we are here and having to go through all of this, and I sometimes feel it sets me back.
I don't initiate communication, but neither does my H. The last communication was asking him to check on the dogs and he could only do a half @ss job of that. He left the little one (who just had surgery) in his crate in the dark with no food or water, and was only here to check on him for such a short period of time. After coming home from a 13 hour work day finding the poor dog like that I sent him a text and asked him for the garage remote back. I asked (texted) him to mail it to me so that neither of us would have to see the other. Of course he never responded to the text. He mailed it the next day. Previously when I had asked him to return the garage remote he didn't want to because he said that was his only access to see the dogs. I guess he doesn't care about anything but himself anymore.
I just don't know how much longer I can go on like this. I received a letter from the court telling me that the D has been dismissed due to not having sufficient enough "evidence" to continue. The papers were filed in May of 2016 and my H never went to see a lawyer or give any kind of response to the court. So now we are back to where we started from.
I just don't understand why a man who makes no contact with me at all, who said he didn't love me for the last 3 years of our marriage, who had a 3 year affair, and has said he wants a D since the day I asked him to leave in November of 2015, has not gone to see a lawyer??? What is he doing?!?!?!?!
I totally understand your pain, your sadness and your anger. Trying to make sense of a situation, trying to find a solution but sadly there is nothing you can do when they are in full replay/full anger.
I am glad you were able to talk to a friend and express your feelings and thoughts, it helps to sort them out. I spent 3 hours today listening to a friend who just learned that her boyfriend cheated on her during the last few months of their relationship.
I know sometimes reading all those posts can be depressing but I found some with some success stories, some with piecing in progress, Hawho, bluwave, SM34 ... Reading them help me to make sense of my own struggles.
It's a very long road and the ending is not guarantee. It seems that your WH is totally into his own world and he is getting deeper into it. There is nothing you can do.
The best way I found to deal with that situation was to take small decisions in regards of how I was doing at that very moment.
First try to figure out (not easy), what are his advantages for not filing for a divorce since he doesn't want to have any connection anymore with you, put all the ideas you can have on a paper. Remember they are in limbo but their own interest (selfishness) is the one always driving them, what can be the positive for him not to file (you keep paying the home loan then when you divorce his part will be bigger, you might be forced to pay for half of his business taxes..., he is entitled to half of your retirement so the more he waits.., he can also borrow against the house and then in case of divorce, it becomes common debts...) MLCers need money, a lot of them, it's a common denominator). Or it could be something else, you are the person who knows him the best. Their mind is very twisted so sometimes so you might have to twist your mind to figure out.
Revisit talking with your GP to help you with something or just to have something if you feel you need it.
Keep in touch with your friend.
Ask yourself:
If he contacts me about the dismissal of the divorce, what should I say?
Today do I still want to be his wife?
Am I ready to way for months or even years? If yes what is my deadline: 3 months, 6 months, one year before re- assessing my decision?
What can I accept? What are my boundaries?
During that time what can I do for myself since he won't be around? Establish your GAL plan according to your needs of today! Re-assess later!
Do I still want to wait for him knowing that chances might be slim just to be sure I did everything so I won't have any regrets knowing I have already been very patient and understanding for a while?
Do I want to allow his f... behavior to destroy my sanity? I am worth more than that!
Take control of the situation on your side.
Then make a decision for today and the following weeks (one months a time) and start with baby steps. You might take a decision today and re-assess it in a few weeks and change it fully. It's Ok.
Right now you need to extract yourself from that crazy limbo situation who is destroying your sanity and your health.
Skm I'm just catching up my up on your situation and skyhigh has nailed it. She has given you a lot of good advice. Put yourself and your needs first. Stop overthinking. I know easier said than done.
Take charge! I know how tough and scary it is but you can do it!
I know how painful must be the constant deep stabbing of your heart, how painful is just to think about him, how painful is to imagine him with somebody else...
I know how the feeling of being powerless can drive you totally nuts for hours and days at a time.
That's why on top of GAL you might want to start working on Detaching, it's tough, very tough but the survival of your mind is at stake.
Detaching doesn't mean not having any more feelings but it means you stop having their actions affecting you,. It's not something you can master in a few days, it's more a journey with a few set backs. It's more something like " and so what?" and you move on with no thoughts about it. After a while, it becomes easier and one day you realize you just don't care anymore... you valid their thoughts (you are polite) but simply don't care anymore unless it's really crazy/ not respectful , then that's another story, that's boundaries...
Big hugs, you can do it, it's not easy. Imagine you had a terrible accident , you had major surgeries , spent a few weeks in ICU and, now you need to recover fully . Rehab is your next step, painful, long but at the end the New You.
Hope you are feeling a tiny bit better today!
skyhigh.....I appreciate all of your input so much.
Everyday I felt like I was working on detaching because I was not initiating contact with him and was leaving him to himself. But the more I think about it he is consuming all of my thoughts and that is not detaching. I guess I not doing a good at it at all!!!
I don't want to stop caring about him, but he has definitely stopped caring about me. It is hard for me to think about myself in this process, but I know I have to, otherwise I will never be able to move forward.
It scares me to think that he is not filing for divorce because he is trying to get money out of me somehow, or that he is doing it to be spiteful. I do know that he is hurting financially as I received a piece of mail today for him at the house that stated he had been denied for a loan due to his income being insufficient to manage the total debt.
I am SLOWLY learning that I have major control issues
I am working on this everyday and feel that I am making strides. One day at a time. I just wish he could see all of my hard work, but I know that all of this is not for him but for me. I just wish somehow he could see it.
I so appreciate everyone here more then you know
Hi,
Detaching is not easy, at the beginning it seems that we have to fight our own instincts of fixing things but little by little it comes. Did you read the thread on it? It's well done.
Also detaching doesn't mean you stop caring or having feeling for him, it means that you are trying not to be affected by his behavior/words and restrain yourself to intervene. You validate but don't give any input.
Detaching is not being cold, it's like you are with a neighbor. Nice but move on.
It took me a long time to understand and really apply it, it's so difficult when you are so hurt.
Try to care for yourself, set up small goals, I know it's easier to say than to do, I remember when my thoughts were all about him, OW and the future of my marriage. I was obsessed.
What do you do as GAL activities?
Allow yourself to cry if it makes you feel better, your world has been changed against your own will and there is nothing you can do about your relationship with your husband right now, he is in full limbo.
Financially, may be should consult a lawyer to have a better picture of what could happen to you if he doesn't pay his debts?
Does he know that you stopped the divorce?
If yes, how did he react?
If no, do you have the intention to inform him?
If you have the intention to inform him, how do you think you might do it
Do you intent to forward the mail to him?
Do you still keep him inform about your healing dog?
Just a few questions going through my mind, sometimes it's not easy to process information and questions when we are in heat of the situation?
I am sure you changed, if you are on this forum, it's because you want to understand what is going on and also your mind is open to change.
I, personally changed, I changed things I used to do that he didn't like but also I changed as a person.
We cannot go through that terrible experience without reflecting on ourselves and changing who we are.
Big hug to you and I hope that your dog is doing better, I am glad you have them to keep you company.
Detaching is not easy and it goes against everything that feels natural for a relationship that is in trouble. I have read the thread on it and there is a lot of good info on it.
I am learning that what I need to do is care for myself and put myself first. I have good days where that is so easy to do, but it seems there are more days when that seems impossible. The obsessive thoughts are unbelievable sometimes. How can one person consume so much of my thinking?? I am still having days where the crying is endless but I am okay with that.
I agree with the comment that "my life has been changed against my will and there is nothing I can do about it." This is where I am learning that my control is an issue. I have found that learning to let go of things has been a good thing, and I see that making the conscious decision to not try and control stuff really does benefit me in the long run.
For my GAL activities I am starting to make choices that get me out of the house more often. I know I have not done a good job of this previously, but all I can do is keep doing it.
As far as the mail thing....he told me that he changed all the addresses for mail that he wanted/needed to get. But I do still get some important mail (car registration, loan application denials) for him at the house so he obviously hasn't really taken care of it. Moving forward maybe I will start writing "not at this address" and put it back in the outgoing mail.
I would be lying if I said I was not concerned about him not having paid his quarterly taxes for 2016 and how it might affect me. If it becomes an issue then we will definitely have to have a conversation about it. Hopefully he will be mature enough to have that conversation if it in fact does go there. He doesn't respond to text messages so I can not imagine him really wanting to have THAT conversation.
As far as his other debts....when I spoke to my lawyer he said I should not be responsible for those because they are not in my name and they were established after we were separated. If he is unable to pay them and the credit card and loan company really want there money (which they usually do) then they can definitely come after me.
The last time I spoke to him in November I told him that I was planning on filing a non suit on the D because it was not something I ever wanted in the first place, so he is aware that was my intentions. I can only assume that he was made aware by the court as I was of the dismissal of it.
As far as our sweet little dog....I took him for his 2 week follow up today and he is doing well. I did send a text to my H after the appt to inform him that the dog is doing good, but I have absolutely no expectations that I will get any response from him.
I want to change who I am, and I will change who I am. Unfortunately this has shown me things about myself I don't like and only I can make those changes. I do still find myself becoming angry quite easily and that is something I don't like about myself. I never thought of myself as an angry person before all of this happened. I can only hope that this anger comes from all of my hurt and once that hurt has resolved so too will the anger.
Detaching takes time, it's an internal struggle, it took me time to find the right balance. Even today I have to remind myself "validate, don't give your opinion... or just something very neutral if asked".
Being angry is normal, you have been the victim of the ultimate treason, your husband had an affair, he justified his affair by blaming you... I was angry to a point that some days I was going to practice my serve or play against the ball machine just to let my anger out thinking the balls were his face and her. I am still sometimes when I think about what he did and how he behaved.
About those obsessive thoughts, as you can experience they come by waves, usually they are triggered by a thought, an object, a place... What I find for me the best to lower them was to take some AD (Wellbutrin XL) for just a few months, that medication is usually used to help people to stop smoking. Not only it lowered those thoughts but since my mind was more "free", helping with GAL.
Again GAL doesn't mean you have to be out , going to gym or party all the time, it's more about caring about your own interests and slowly rebuilding your life without him while thinking about what changes you want to make in your life.
For the financial point of view, be very careful, may be you should ask your lawyer what you can do? There are so many variables. His creditors can ask to put a lien on your house (if it is marital property) and then ask it to be auctioned. I don't want to scare you but it's not something to put aside. I remembered the first time I met with my lawyer, I was at rock bottom but I wanted to protect my kids to the best I could.
Glad to know your little dog is doing well.
Take care I am to go to work.
One day at a time...
I had a great time out with my friend last night, did some girly things and then headed home. She always has some interesting things to say to me in regard to my H and how he is treating me.
I mentioned to her that when I do send texts to him, which is rare, it is only about the dog and his recovery, or if I need help watching them while I'm working because frankly we don't have anything to talk about anymore. I have noticed that he will usually wait at minimum 24 hours to respond to a text, if he even does at all. NOW, this is a man who doesn't go to the bathroom without his phone so I know he gets my message. She made the comment that he is purposefully and intentionally making the choice NOT to answer me because he can, and because he knows I am waiting for his response. Not really sure why after hearing her say it did it make sense to me that she is right.
So this morning I woke up, got ready for work and sent him a text that said "the purposeful, conscious and blatant choice that you are making to not answer texts about the dogs is something I am trying to understand, the sad thing is that your choice to do that is really only hurting them and that makes it hard for me to understand." WELL, wouldn't you know....2 minutes later he answered that text saying he would like to help out with the dogs. I can honestly say that I made the conscious effort NOT to answer his message (I know immature) for 5 hours. Gave an excuse of being at work and being too busy with really sick patients, not having time to eat and etc. 20 minutes later he answers and says "don't forget to eat dinner."
Now while all of this is so trivial in the grand scheme of things it just pisses me off that he acts that way!!!!
Sorry just needed to vent.
Yes, one day at a time
HI Skm
It is difficult to understand the sudden shift and unavailability of the MLcer
They are not the same as when they were committed in the M
It is kind of a shock to the LBS to make sense of
MLC doesn't makes sense, but it is real, unfortunately it happens and it can take lots to time..
Hang in there and continue your journey
It will get better and easier for you as time passes
Your friend was absolutely correct about her analysis. When you talk with friends who can see your situation with an outside view without too much emotional ties to it, usually you have great feedbacks. She saw his behavior for what it was. Also when you talk, it helps to sort out what's going on, it's like if you are brainstorming ideas on a particular subject. Instead of being in the obsessive mode you mind shift to the critical thinking mode. Do you see what I mean?
Your message was right on target, he got it. It was on about facts and how HIS actions had consequences to the welfare of the dogs. You brought him back to reality (you thought you were hurting/annoying me but in fact the victims of your behavior were the dogs not me)
It's ok to vent. Their actions go against common sense most of the time.
My H wants the kids to be more independent while he wants them to do exactly as told. I had to put my foot down this morning.
It's tax season (W2 are here). It's might be a way to bring the questions in regard on some financial issues you talked about. What is you best interest, filing a joint return or filing a separate return?
Skyhigh and peacetoday.....thanks for your support.
I will say that when I first wrote that text message I did make it all about me and how his actions were affecting me but then I read it and thought this really isn't the point I'm trying to make, and he will only read it as "here she goes again" so I used my educated brain and revised it
. He of course did not reach out to help me like he said he would....oh well.
It is so frustrating dealing with all of my emotions and H NOT dealing with any of his. I don't know if this is something I will ever understand. But what I do know is that with each day that passes I see someone (H) who I don't really like anymore, and for me that is sad. I like who I am becoming
I am learning about myself during this process and how I have treated people and it makes me sad to think that I could say or do something to someone to be hurtful. How does a person willingly know they have hurt someone, or are continuing to hurt someone but have absolutely no desire to correct those wrongs or make things better? Denial is a huge thing for these MLC people.
As for taxes....I am not going to have any sort of conversation with him about them. I have decided that I am going to file married but separate. He makes zero effort to communicate with me about anything so I have decided to not communicate with him. I know that from my end of things taxes are not going to be an issues. I just hope and pray that he makes one smart decision in regard to finding a way to pay what he will owe.
I can not imagine having to go through this having children. I know I speak of my dogs often (they are my children) but having kids brings a whole different level to this process that has to be difficult.
That journey through that nightmare changes us.
We cannot change the past, we cannot change them while they are in their MLC, but we can make change on us. We make change on us to help us to "survive" but also to figure out who we can BE without them and, be happy again, because in some cases they may not come back or we might decide we don't want to have them back.
Any time you feel the need to vent, do it, it feels good to express thoughts/feelings and also it helps to figure out a few things, it's a way of brainstorming.
I hope tomorrow will be a good day for you, enjoy a nice walk with your dogs.
Never stopped loving yourself even if you don't feel like it, take care of you, a nice tinted cream, some mascara, some perfume, you go girl!
SKM
Hi..Just make sure your finance are operate from his
so if he doesn't pay his taxes..you dont get stuck
I used to wonder the same,,how could they walk and feel nothing
look almost happy some of the time
because they live in denial
it is a state of mind that you lie to yourself and create a fantasy
the problem is to live live way, a person has o rely on some sort of addiction to keep the cycle going
because when a feeling of shame or guilt come in, they have to run somewhere
the replay stage of MLC is loaded with addictions drugs alcohol spending affairs sex
vacations running running and more running
the only way off the addiction wheel is to get help or better
many MLC will not opt for that because it is too painful
The LBS lives in reality
many of us here opt to get help
go to therapy
change
find God
make a new life
help others
be available
get promotions, schooling, new jobs parent alone ect
Hang in
you will keep walking forward and soon step out of the pain and into a better place-
skyhigh and peacetoday......thank you again as always for your encouragement.
My understanding is that he spends every night home alone in his house. He doesn't have another OW and rarely gets out much. This is what I am having a hard time with because if he isn't with OW (she is/was married, lives 3 hours away and is still with her H) or have a new OW, why doesn't he see that if he puts effort into making himself better and learning to work on himself then maybe he can see that our M was something worth having. I could understand if he was with someone else and was out enjoying life to the fullest, but he isn't. What that says to me is that he didn't really think our M was worth working on at all. Did those 11 years really mean nothing to him? Or have I made it so difficult for him to feel that it is safe to reach out to me because of my actions in the beginning? And, do I try to reach out to him because is that what he is waiting for? This is so confusing!!!
I got an email today from a previous support group that was talking about shame and guilt and it really explained things pretty well when it comes to why the unfaithful acts the way they do. It said:
"as long as the unfaithful spouse continues to remain paralyzed by his or her own self-absorption, their mate can’t truly heal. Shame doesn’t accept responsibility for the choices made, it is just another form of justification"
I learned today that he is going even further into debt. Is overdrawn on one of his accounts and is unable to pay some of his bills. When I look up MLC and all the things that can and do happen with them, H is definitely proving all of those right.
I will most certainly file my taxes separate from him. He has not lived in this house since Nov 2015 and the only thing that still has his name on it is the mortgage, but I have always paid that. I am not listed on any of his business accounts...thank goodness because that is one of the accounts he is overdrawn on.
ONE DAY AT A TIME......
My understanding is that he spends every night home alone in his house. He doesn't have another OW and rarely gets out much. This is what I am having a hard time with because if he isn't with OW (she is/was married, lives 3 hours away and is still with her H) or have a new OW, why doesn't he see that if he puts effort into making himself better and learning to work on himself then maybe he can see that our M was something worth having. I could understand if he was with someone else and was out enjoying life to the fullest, but he isn't. What that says to me is that he didn't really think our M was worth working on at all. Did those 11 years really mean nothing to him? Or have I made it so difficult for him to feel that it is safe to reach out to me because of my actions in the beginning? And, do I try to reach out to him because is that what he is waiting for? This is so confusing!!!
skm
I am not completely caught up on your sitch but reading this paragraph I though maybe I could help you see things from a different perspective
Many LBS's ... myself included... fixate on the OP (OM/OW). I recall thinking if only the OM would choke on a breadstick all my worries would be done and my M restored. Then as I do with anything I learned more about MLC, I read, I exchanged ideas, I dove deeper into the psychology part .. I targeted MLCrs and LBSr's whose story was like mine and read those front to back looking for the magic bullet. After some time dealing with this I have walked away with a different perspective.
To answer your question he really can not face the M, you , nor the issues he really must face, the very one that sent him into the crisis. Like someone splashing around in the water ... he is drowning and panicking and the last thing he is thinking about is how to fix it all .... he is racing to try to stop the pain and so far nothing has worked. He must exhaust all these options before he can truly sit down and look in the mirror and realize maybe the problem is within himself.
The frustrating thing about all this for the LBS is it simply takes a great deal of time. They have blinders on and have no idea how to stop the pain so they spin out and leave the destruction in their wake .... we can not fix them, we have to let them go through this without our involvement with the hopes one day they can be whole again.
I came across something recently the other day and felt it applies to a MLCr and the OP, I will paraphrase a bit but it struck a chord in me.
When a MLCr is in crisis, their whole life is a facade, they have the urge to fool everyone, all the choices that have destroyed their family, the one thing they had that meant anything, they feel they need to justify and convince everyone around them it was the right choice, look how happy they are (THis is a lie they propel). They are trying to convince (OP) someone to fall in love with the person they have never discovered themselves.
Yes I agree that OP or not - the MLCer looks back at the marriage and feels 'I don't want to go back 'there'' But 'there' isn't the marriage (though they think it is). 'There' is how bad they were feeling within themselves when they decided to blow up the marriage.
The thing is, once the marriage (and you) are out of the picture, they may find themselves feeling the same way again. It's that saying which I think is so important - wherever you go - there you are.
In a new R (with OP) there is an initial excitement, but - given some brokenness within both - it can be hard to translate that into a successful long term relationship. However, I would just be glad that there isn't an OP in the picture just now...truly for me the OP aspect has been such a painful one. Though I feel more even about it, her, him as more time passes....
Just keep moving forward and repairing, rebuilding your own life after the previous one was shattered by his choice to leave.
Xx
Thanks for the very insightful responses Caliguy and Sotto
Caliguy, you are right when you say he cant face the M or me or all the other issues in his life. He has never been one to show emotion or be a person who wants to talk about the hard things in his life. I remember when we went to MC, before the BD, the therapist said to him "you are really going to have to start opening up if you want this to help" but he never really did. When he tried to speak about his A with his parents they didn't want to talk about it and his dad told him "I don't like to talk about things or get emotional" ...... must be where he learned it from. They also told him that they just wanted him to "move on" from all of this.
He has left a path of destruction and it has devastated me!! He knows he has done this but won't face the truth because then that would make him take a look at himself and I don't think he is ready to do that...and am not sure he ever will. I would hate to think that I was a person who was able to do that to another.
I know this is a HORRIBLE thing to say, but I really hope he falls on his A$$ so that he can get a glimpse of what it feels like to be in this position. I know he is trying to put on a good show for everyone and I'm sure they think his life is so good now that he is separated. I wouldn't put it past him to tell people he is so happy now, but in reality he and I both know he isn't.
I already know that things financially are not going his way and they will only get worse because that is how he has usually dealt with things in the past to make himself feel better was by spending money he doesn't have.
Sotto...I like what you said "the MLCer looks back at the marriage and feels 'I don't want to go back 'there' but 'there' isn't the marriage (though they think it is). 'There' is how bad they were feeling within themselves when they decided to blow up the marriage."
I can remember him saying to me "I just hoped that things would get better" and "I tried everything" but this was in the middle of him continuing the A, being deceptive and only doing what made HIM feel better. He couldn't and didn't want to see that it was going to take a lot of work on his part (and mine) to make things better. But instead he put it all on me...I was the reason things didn't work out.
The last time I spoke with him he said "he has been trying to tell me he is sorry but I won't let him".....what the H@LL does that mean? Just another way for him to continue to blame me.
We met with a different counselor once, who I continued to see after learning of the A, and that therapist said to me recently "your H is going to be a very lonely man and will live a very lonely life until he figures out how to change, but I honestly don't know if he ever will or is capable of that"
I know that I LOVE my H, but I also know that I don't like the person he is right now. But the sad thing is that I'm sure he is totally in love and like with himself.
All I can do is focus on me, but even after being separated for 14 months I still don't feel like I have made much progress
ONE DAY AT A TIME.....
So true, they want things to get better but but they don't want to put any work into it and, they keep doing what they feel they need to do while expecting us to transform ourselves into something else, thinking it might solve their issues...
In a previous post you talked about him having his name on the montage but also with in deep debts.
Who are the names on the house?
If his name is on it, his creditors can come after it and put a lien on your home, and you won't be able to stop them.
Ask your lawyer if the house is put under your name only (trust or something else). It will still be common property in case of a divorce since it was bought during your marriage. In that case you will need to explain the situation to your husband and he might see you still care for him. But the main goal is to protect yourself.
What do you do when you don't work?
Are you a member of an organization?
Do you volunteer?
Don't stay at home alone, find something that makes you feel good about yourself, it helps with the feelings of loneliness and self esteem. You might even meet "someone", you need to project your mind into the future. Even if you still love him, you need to start to be "selfish" about your needs. He doesn't define you. Show him that you are somebody others like to be with.
Big hug, remember put on that mascara on and smile, show a happy you to others. Happiness and smile attract positive people.
I am learning that if he ever does do any work it will not be for a long time. I am working on myself daily...some days better then others.
I actually took the dogs to the dog park today. I sent him a text letting him know we would be there and if he wanted to stop by and see them that was where we were going to be. Of course I didn't get any response from him.
I later learned that he is out of town. I'm surprised he is out of town as he is really struggling to pay bills right now and if he is not working he doesn't get paid. I'm hoping this is a work related thing, but I honestly don't know what it is. Of course my mind started to wander and think the worst. Where is he, what is he doing, who is he with. I will say that it did make me a bit annoyed that he is out of town because in my mind he is off having a great time, no worries in the world, spending money he doesn't have. While I am home, having a sad day, wondering if my life will ever get better, taking my antidepressants
I have a friend who is a realtor and she is looking into if I can sell my house without him having to sign papers, or if I can rent it without him signing papers. Highly unlikely with both of those 2 situations but she is checking.
I really hate all of this......
Hang in there
yes it is very hard watching them having so called fun in replay
while we clean up the mess
The hard work does pay off..we are paving a way for a better future by investing in healing ourselves and keeping our lives together with good choices
while they are usually paving a way for disaster
and they too will have to clean up if there is any chance for them to find the real happiness they seek
They are only living in illusion and it will not work
I really hate all of this......
I reread the "Surviving His Midlife Crisis" section in the DR book last night. Every time I read thru the book I pick up different things about my sitch. Last night what hit me again was the part on patience and how we have to realize that we have no control over them at this point. They have to work thru this on their own.
1 Corinthians 13:4-7New American Standard Bible (NASB)
4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, 5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, 6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7 [a]bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
They are only living in illusion and it will not work
It is an illusion, but the question is how long can they live in that illusion?
For sure they are paving their way to disaster, they are so obsessed of living the life they want, that they don't really pay attention to the chaos they are creating or simply they don't take care of "what must be done" because it takes time away from their pleasurable time.
I totally understand your frustration, they don't care about our feelings.
He is in full replay, he still can stay for a while in it, you might want to start thinking what you can do to protect yourself against the consequences of his actions.
At one point, you will have to have a conversation with him about how some of his debts might affect you, I am pretty sure he never gave any thoughts about it.
Also this conversation might start stirring something, usually they hate talking about subjects where reality catches up on their "idealistic" life.
That conversation is not about you pursuing him, reconciliation or feelings, it's about you telling him, "hey we have an issue, we need to talk about it". Make him see the strong you, the one you became since he left.
That conversation is about boundaries, you might tell him " You want to live without me, I accept your decision but some of the decisions you made lately might have some severe negative effects on me and we need to find a solution, what can you do to help me? Remove your name from the mortgage, accept to sell the house... whatever you need him to do. If he refuses you might have to take some legal actions.
My H never thought about the consequences of having an affair could have on our kids or I could catch him,, he was focused only on himself. He became also "blind" to some issues at work. His priorities were totally different. He thought also that nobody noticed how much he changed.
His priorities are now much more in tune with reality, but I had to kick his la la land several times to make him land on Earth again. I reached a point where I had nothing to lose anyway, I had to protect myself and the kids from his actions/decisions. Somehow in his limbo mind he understood that I was very serious and even if I still cared for him I was going to put my needs first exactly as he was doing. His control over me was over even if I still loved him.
They think they can fool everybody. They are living on another planet. The way their mind processes issues is totally different from ours.
They can live in their illusion for a long time
MLC can take 2-7 years
some of them won't make it out -ever
I think my XH falls into that category
I believe many will come out and try to clean up the past
but it may take them a while-and they may not be the same as pre tunnel
I have seem a few MLCers who seem to settle down after a bit, but they are still a litttle nuts..they loose a lot of time in the tunnel
during that time many LBS grow leaps and bounds-
it will be a lucky few who manage to reconcile while the majority choose to end the M
and some try to return and LBS says no
The best we can do is to commit to ourselves
work on our growth
be there for our kids and family
set the example
and pave the way for our spouse to reconnect with us if they choose to( whatever way seems appropriate as friends, coparents, or more if we are still standing )
Today was an emotional day for me, nothing in particular happened, just feeling sad and crying some. I'm sure not getting enough sleep and waking up with a headache definitely did not help. I'm sure I was thinking about H being out of town, enjoying things, not dealing with reality and that is why I couldn't sleep
I have learned that H is in Cancun Mexico. Posting photos on Instagram, soaking up the sun saying "wish you were here." I guess I can see why the MLCer acts the way they do. Who wouldn't want to be laying on the beach somewhere, drinking a mojito, not dealing with reality....it's so much easier then living our lives, trying to be better.
I'm pretty sure he is staying at his parents time share. Again, they are providing things for him to keep him out of reality. I'm sure they have no clue about his finances. His parents were an issue during our marriage as they just wanted to make his life easier and not have him deal with things....it was frustrating. The sad thing is that he was carrying on with the A during several of their visits here, but they seem to have forgotten about all of that. The one email I did receive from his mother after she learned about the A was that all she could hear over the phone when he called to tell them (after she asked if it was true) was me in the back ground being angry. No sympathy, compassion or support, just that I was angry. I guess the thing about British people and not showing emotion and their stiff upper lip is true.
PEACETODAY....I'm hanging in there the best I know how. What a great way to describe what is going in the life of the MLCer as an ILLUSION. I really do hope that H comes out of it and sees that he HAS to sort his SH*T out!! But as mean as it sounds I also hope he falls on his A$$ though too. That might be the only we does realize that what he is doing is NOT working.
SBJ...I am trying to find a way to empathize with what H is going through. We don't speak so I honestly don't really know what his life is like. I know things about him because of friends and the posting he does online. I don't know if he wants my empathy because then I think he would feel guilty. In the beginning when I asked him if he would consider trying to work things out he said "I don't feel like I deserve a second chance after what I have done."
H is not a religious man but soon after the BD he went to church with a friend and texted me to tell me. I asked him how it went and he said he "felt weird" being in church. He said he felt like the sermon was relatable to our situation. He then said he learned from the sermon that it is possible to receive forgiveness. I told him that forgiveness must be earned. I can forgive him for the A because I can now see how I contributed to his unhappiness. But what I can not forgive currently is how he has treated me since the BD. He abandoned me and our marriage, said terrible things to me and about me, blamed me for everything and that is very hard to let go of for me.
Maybe I should pick up the books again and reread them. Maybe I will get more perspective on things. All we can hope for is that we continue to do what is best for us....as hard as that is to do, because all we want is our spouse and marriage back.
SKYHIGH.....I can not get this man to answer a text message about the dogs. Imagine what it will be like to have a discussion about finances, the mortgage and other important things. I guess I will just have to show up at his house and see what happens.
I have said from the beginning that I honestly don't think that H wants a D, he just doesn't know what to do because he has so much shame and guilt right now. He manages to say that "my behavior" is the problem. I guess I did go a bit crazy in the beginning cursing and swearing at him, calling him names, telling him I hated him and wished I never met him. It was wrong and I have apologized for all of that. I even told him that I know I have issues with control, which was HUGE for me.
My gut feeling before finding out about the A was he was cheating. I used to have dreams of him sleeping with other women. My gut was also telling me that he didn't want a D and he later admitted that he didn't. My gut also told me that he still loved me and he later admitted that too. I told him that my gut is telling me that we would be in each others lives at some point in the future. Now what I have to do is live my life without his actions having any bearing on me and see what happens. That is what I am having a hard time with.
WOW....sorry this post is so long
SBJ...I am trying to find a way to empathize with what H is going through. We don't speak so I honestly don't really know what his life is like. I know things about him because of friends and the posting he does online. I don't know if he wants my empathy because then I think he would feel guilty. In the beginning when I asked him if he would consider trying to work things out he said "I don't feel like I deserve a second chance after what I have done."
H is not a religious man but soon after the BD he went to church with a friend and texted me to tell me. I asked him how it went and he said he "felt weird" being in church. He said he felt like the sermon was relatable to our situation. He then said he learned from the sermon that it is possible to receive forgiveness. I told him that forgiveness must be earned. I can forgive him for the A because I can now see how I contributed to his unhappiness. But what I can not forgive currently is how he has treated me since the BD. He abandoned me and our marriage, said terrible things to me and about me, blamed me for everything and that is very hard to let go of for me.
Maybe I should pick up the books again and reread them. Maybe I will get more perspective on things. All we can hope for is that we continue to do what is best for us....as hard as that is to do, because all we want is our spouse and marriage back.
I think that empathizing is for you and not for him or his sake. I have tried to realize that she is lost and confused at the moment and that she is doing all of this out of confusion. Yes much of it is also selfishness, but I know that she is lost at the moment.
As for him feeling weird when he was in church...I think that he felt weird because of a feeling of guilt. I know that many times if something is weighing heavy on my heart, the sermon/homily definitely relates to what is going on in my life at that moment.
As for the forgiveness...that is something that you will have to reach for yourself. Personally, I have made the decision that I can and will forgive her for any transgression she has committed against me and my family. That decision was hard at first, but the more I searched for answers within myself, I realized that that is what I am meant to do...I am meant to be the spiritual leader of my household. I am meant to be an example to my children on how to treat people (family/friends/strangers). I am also meant to do what God has called me to do and called me to be. I'm not saying that I should be walked all over, but when/if she comes thru this crisis I will ask God for the strength and courage to overcome myself and treat the situation as he would.
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. Matthew 6:14-15 NIV
And the one scripture that was probably read at most of our weddings...but, it is also something that we should all strive to achieve.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 1 corinthians 13:4 - 6 NIV
As for reading the books again...I agree that at times we should revisit the source for what works.
Also this conversation might start stirring something, usually they hate talking about subjects where reality catches up on their "idealistic" life.
Hi there SkyHigh, skm0619, and SBJ.
SKM0619, sorry you are having a difficult time right now. It is hard to see the MLC'er run, run, run. It looks like they are having a grand ol' time and are whooping it up. I have been assured that is not the case. That inside, the turmoil rages on.
The reason I dropped in is because of Skyhigh's post. I don't want to highjack anyone's thread, so if it would be appropriate to have this discussion on my thread, I would be happy to.
Skyhigh wrote the above words and they caught my eye because I thought they might help shed some light on my sitch.
Would you share more of your thoughts on this Skyhigh?
FightOn, I will share more on your thread but I need to get acquainted with it first.
It is hard to see the MLC'er run, run, run. It looks like they are having a grand ol' time and are whooping it up. I have been assured that is not the case. That inside, the turmoil rages on.
FightON...isn't that what we've all been hearing, but still have a hard time believing or understanding. How can they leave their family and start another life without us. Then we see them laughing and in a good mood when we are around them. The problem is that we don't see them behind closed doors. What is really going on inside their head. They are fighting with a demon of some sort. Keep praying for them that they may one day wake up to see the truth that they have left behind. Also that they will have the courage to not only ask for your forgiveness, but also to forgive themselves of the things that they have put you thru.
My H never thought about the consequences of having an affair could have on our kids or I could catch him,, he was focused only on himself. He became also "blind" to some issues at work. His priorities were totally different. He thought also that nobody noticed how much he changed.
His priorities are now much more in tune with reality, but I had to kick his la la land several times to make him land on Earth again. I reached a point where I had nothing to lose anyway, I had to protect myself and the kids from his actions/decisions. Somehow in his limbo mind he understood that I was very serious and even if I still cared for him I was going to put my needs first exactly as he was doing. His control over me was over even if I still loved him.
Skyhigh--
I have a W who is in MLC and has become infatuated with one of her employees (20 years her junior who has a 3-year GF his own age). She is so in La La Land she wants a D and split up our family with five kids ("the kids will be happier when I am happier"). Nothing I have said or done has changed her overall resolve (though there have been signs of confusions and contradiction). I desperately want to shake up La La Land, but have been at a loss for how to do it. I never contemplated your selective disclosure strategy...something for me to consider.
Skm, stop blaming yourself for how you reacted when you discovered his affair.
You were hurt, your trust in your husband was shattered, you were traumatized, your emotional world had been assaulted. You reacted the way most all of us did. Your husband made the decision to have an affair, he was the one by his actions who pulled the trigger on your relationship, he could have come to you and share his unhappiness.
No, he had to blame you, he made you responsible for his affair. How twisted is that!
Remember they are great at manipulating our mind. Also, he blamed you for your reactions and used that for not working on the relationship but to make it worst, again he turned himself into a victim and you were the villain ! Really! What were you expected to say "That's great, I feel so good, you made my day, I love being cheated on, you are the greatest husband on Earth"... Mine did the same after DB 1 and 2 with OW1.. it's another way around to turn themselves into victims again.
You were the victim, he was the villain, so he had to find a way to put the burden on you, since we are humans so de facto we are not perfect, he came up with whatever he could think of to justify his actions. The question is: Is cheating really an excuse to solve marital issues? I don't think so.
You are right if you need to have a conversation with him you will have to show up to his door because you are "reality" and he doesn't want to face it, he wants his "fantasy" life.
Also remember they are liars, they know very well to use "feelings" and "nice words" when they need something or when they need to escape a situation where they know they are in trouble. My H used to tell me "I love you, I will never leave you, I am done with that woman", meanwhile he was still in contact with OW. They are also excellent at gas lighting.
Don't hang to his words but rather to his actions. I hung to his words and each time, I was very deceived until one day, I stopped hanging to them and look more for his actions. Actions are something you can assess, words are just words... and stay words if actions are not taken to support them.
Don't expect anything from his parents, they will side with him.
I agree with you forgiveness must be earned, because somehow they need to reflect on their actions and how it impacted others.
Forgiveness is a process, we shouldn't rush through it but at the same time it's something we need to go through at some point to put aside those "hurtful feelings" and find peace into our heart. Forgiveness doesn't mean we forget, it means we integrate that event into our life but it doesn't define/impact our life in a certain manner anymore. I hope I am expressing well what I want to say.
One day at a time! You are already stronger but you didn't realize it yet, believe in yourself, it takes time to make decisions or change, so be patient with yourself, be kind to yourself, love yourself.
Thank you all for the responses, it means so much to me to have all of this support. I have re-read all of your thoughts several times and each time I get something new out of them.
SBJ....I love reading the bible verses you post. I myself don't have a strong faith, but have always believed in God and a higher power.
I am trying to understand that he is struggling and that he is having a hard time with all of this too, but when you find out he is loving life laying on a beach with no care in the world it makes it really hard. Through all of this I am learning to be a more patient and understanding person. I hope that as time carries on that will continue.
I am not ready to forgive him yet. I need to see that there is some remorse or regret from him and I have not seen it. I know that others feel that the forgiveness is more for us then for them, but honestly I don't feel that way right now. Maybe one day I will have the courage, as you do, to forgive him, but right now it just isn't in me.
FightOn.....I know he is having a hard time but he isn't showing it cause that would take too much effort and be too painful. I have no doubt it will catch up to him. People can not pretend forever, and can only convince themselves that the way they are choosing to live with lies and deception can only last for so long.
Feel free to 'high jack" anytime
GORDIE......I'm sorry you are having to deal with all of this too. Skyhigh has been such a help for me with her words of wisdom.
SKYHIGH.....as always you make me feel that I am not going crazy or losing my mind and for that I will forever be thankful.
I really try not to blame myself but DANG IT it's difficult. I really like what you said about him making himself into the victim when it reality he is the villain. That really struck a cord and made so much sense to me!!!
Today I received a text from him that said
"Hi, sorry I didn't get back to you and for not responding like I should have. I am out of town right now but will be back this weekend. Honestly, I do still want you to communicate about the dogs. I understand my actions don't show that to you. I am sorry for the frustration." WTF!!!! I read that and started having palpitations and chest pain. Something about that just set me off!!! I waited all day to respond and decided to send this:
"Your words really don't have much merit with me anymore. There is always an excuse or reason why you don't answer, and I'm tired of the excuses. As I have always said actions speak louder then words and your silence speaks volumes to me. Hope you are enjoying your time away at the beach."
This is not the type of text he would normally send to me. I wonder if he is having someone else write it for him. He is not that good with the words....if you know what I mean. I just had to throw it in there that I knew he was at the beach even though he only said he was "out of town" I bet he SH*T on himself when he read that. Shocking there has been no response. This type of behavior is what I need from him because then it makes it so much easier to detach!!!
ONE DAY AT A TIME.....
MLCers are the opposite of who they were pre-crisis, i.e., mirror image. If your h wasn't all that great in writing things, then he just very well might be much better in MLC. For example, my former h was very much like yours when it came to writing and/or words, but once MLC hit, his writing became much better. Did the ow write his stuff for him? I seriously doubt it because the few times that I have spoken to him, he even spoke much better and could express himself better w/words.
You have to find a way to look at your h as a different person. Sure, it's the same body, but the mentality is a whole other can of worms. He's going to say and do things that are out of character, dress differently and his interests will be different, as well as friends, etc. Again, the mirror image. Keep those expectations down very low or even zero right now.
SBJ....I love reading the bible verses you post. I myself don't have a strong faith, but have always believed in God and a higher power.
I am trying to understand that he is struggling and that he is having a hard time with all of this too, but when you find out he is loving life laying on a beach with no care in the world it makes it really hard. Through all of this I am learning to be a more patient and understanding person. I hope that as time carries on that will continue.
I am not ready to forgive him yet. I need to see that there is some remorse or regret from him and I have not seen it. I know that others feel that the forgiveness is more for us then for them, but honestly I don't feel that way right now. Maybe one day I will have the courage, as you do, to forgive him, but right now it just isn't in me.
Now she seems to have this wonderful outward appearance for all of our friends and family to see. She thinks that everything that the bible says is wonderful...except that whole thing where God says...
Malachi 2:16New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
16 For I hate divorce,
says the Lord, the God of Israel,
And the one who covers his garment with violence,
says the Lord of hosts.
You should be on guard, then, for your life,
and you must not break faith.
I have come to feel personally...that you are either all in or all out with faith. You should not pick and choose what you should or should not believe.
I read today in the Gospel of Mark that Jesus was teaching and was amazed at the great lack of faith of all that were listening. Because of this lack of faith he was unable to perform any great deeds there. I try to apply this to my sitch...I have to have faith that things will be OK. Stay strong and take things one day at a time.
You have to find a way to look at your h as a different person. Sure, it's the same body, but the mentality is a whole other can of worms.
JOB.....thank you for the response. I guess I never even thought that he would be a different man in other aspects, especially not with vocabulary or how he writes or responds in a text message.
I am trying to keep my expectations at zero with him. When I do get a response I am always shocked. I send texts expecting nothing. Of course I hope he will, but don't expect it.
When I re-read his response and then read what I wrote I thought to myself.....did I do the wrong thing responding the way I did? Was he trying to reach out to me and I blew it by saying what I did back to him?
I am trying not to let my anger get the best of me, but I know that in the past I have responded in a negative way and said mean things to him because it made ME feel better. Of course I have come to learn that is NOT the right way to handle things.
I told myself it's a new month and I am ready to be a new me. I am going to stop letting his actions or lack there of have power over me and how I respond. The one thing I don't know what to do is if he contacts me again...do I respond or do I just have NC at all? If he does contact me after that last text I will be very surprised.
SBJ....I totally agree with you in regard to faith, that you are either in or out. Don't pick and choose when its convenient for you to ask God for help. I think sometimes we all are guilty of saying "God if you help me this one time" at least I know I am. Having faith and living your life by that faith takes a strong person. I know that I don't have that kind of faith. Maybe one day I will.
As hard as it is for me not to see my H, I can only imagine that each time you see your W it has to be difficult. I know for me, I still love my H but don't like him. I know that when I have seen him in the past I didn't have those feelings like I used to and that made me sad.
Remember they are telling themselves things to make them feel better and to justify why they are continuing to do the things they are doing. We can not change or in my case control any of that, and for me that is something I am REALLY trying to let go of.
Hang in there my friend
ONE DAY AT A TIME ......
Having faith and living your life by that faith takes a strong person. I know that I don't have that kind of faith. Maybe one day I will.
Maybe asking for the strength is your first step in building your faith...
Philippians 4:13
13 I have the strength for everything through him who empowers me.
I have heard he works in his time and not ours. We want everything done quickly. That is why my W has moved out and filed within the same week and is now pushing for everything to be over. I have prayed and prayed for intervention and it has not come yet. What has happened is that my faith is getting stronger and stronger.
As hard as it is for me not to see my H, I can only imagine that each time you see your W it has to be difficult. I know for me, I still love my H but don't like him. I know that when I have seen him in the past I didn't have those feelings like I used to and that made me sad.
It kills me at times as well...sometimes she looks just as beautiful as the day I met her and others she is a totally different person...almost unrecognizable. But, I know that the one I love is in there somewhere...not sure where, but I think she is hiding somewhere. It saddens me too that they are lost at the moment, but as it has been said many times on here...this is their journey to take. Either we are just casualties or God has a meaning for putting us thru this as well. Just something to ponder.
Remember they are telling themselves things to make them feel better and to justify why they are continuing to do the things they are doing. We can not change or in my case control any of that, and for me that is something I am REALLY trying to let go of.
I had someone mention to me that my W has never looked happier. At first I felt kind of bad, but then they said...it must be some kind of act. I think at times of her waking up and saying..."the show must go on"...like she is in some Broadway performance. Or she says the tagline we use..."fake it 'til you make it". Either way...it is their show and you're right in that there is nothing we can do, or say to make a difference. They have to come out of the other side before they either come to their senses or come back to us.
"Your words really don't have much merit with me anymore. There is always an excuse or reason why you don't answer, and I'm tired of the excuses. As I have always said actions speak louder then words and your silence speaks volumes to me. Hope you are enjoying your time away at the beach."
Can you help me understand what your goal was here? I am confused. DB is about validating, keeping communication open, and being a "lighthouse" so to speak (in that you are safe and approachable). Your text does the opposite of that. You are basically telling him his words are meaningless and for him not to waste his time talking to you. The you tell him to have a good time at the beach, which after the first lines, reads like complete sarcasm! Did you honestly expect him to respond? I don't know if he "sh1t himself" that you know where he was, but I do imagine you just reinforced to him WHY he left. Sorry for the 2*4, but I don't think you should expect him to come around when you respond that way. Personally, I wouldn't.
Blu
Blu.....I've been waiting for your response.
My goal for sending that text was to let him know that I am tired of his excuses. Now, I'm sure I could have responded in a different way....no question. But, this man takes DAYS to respond to a text, if he does at all. His choice to do that is deliberate, blatant and purposeful. And, when he does there is always an excuse for why he didn't do something, and usually it is a lie. He says he will do something and doesn't...so his words are meaningless.
I get that I am supposed to validate and be a light house, but how do I let him know how I feel when he doesn't respond? I don't speak about anything but our dogs with him. And I make sure the texts are short and I try not to show any emotion.
I understand you felt like you needed to give me a 2x4, and I probably did need it, but I will say that when you responded with "I do imagine you just reinforced to him WHY he left" was a bit hurtful....(not going to lie).
HI
Validating the Mlcer does promote a more peaceful relationship
I have found that in my situation
Validating my xh made an easier transition for everyone, especially him and my kids
Think about it -in any R, if we validate and treat person with respect and kindness -any r will work and become peaceful,,the other person doesn't have to fight us they are always right
Will it bring MLCer back..maybe -sometimes -but just as often .if not more the Mlcer will continue on their journey
The way you handle him is up to you- Some go dark with No contact
Do what works for you, and if it helps bring him closer, try that strategy more
I spent a good part of the first 18 months validating XH , and while it did create a nice friendship at that time, it all faded and and he still filed and M OW
I agree w/Blu. You came off sounding like his mother or someone in authority. MLCers don't respond back very quickly. It could take them days, even weeks to respond back. Why? Because they are out there doing their thing and don't want to be bother w/"mom or dad". Your expectation level of your MLCer is far too high. Lower it because you are dealing w/a man/child. Lower it because you and the kids, sad to say, are not number one on his radar right now.
You've just validated his excuse for leaving you. Don't give him any more justifications for what he's doing. If you do nothing else this weekend, go back and re-read the responses to your postings and start educating yourself more on MLC. Do what works and leave the rest behind. If you get the urge to text him, come here first and run the text by us. We've been where you are at and know what may or may not work.
Yes, I agree with the wise advice of others, and I'm sorry if you felt a sting from the 2x4. It is difficult to receive feedback sometimes - but sometimes the things we find hardest to hear are the very things we need to hear...((((hugs))))
Now then, do remember that you and your H are two separate individuals. How and whether he responds is up to him. And (importantly) his type of response and non-response needn't influence how you interact with him. If you notice above - you are effectively saying - well, he did this and so I....
Actually, you can choose to respond constructively and with grace whatever he may do. Equally, you can choose not to initiate contact with him. You can already (hopefully) see that the last interaction didn't further your cause - but a single interaction never made or broke chances of possible reconciliation.
I agree that your expectations of him seem far to high. If you can get those down to minimal or none - you won't be disappointed - and who knows you may get the occasional pleasant surprise.
Last thing I would say is - if you feel driven by emotion and want to post something to him - maybe post it here and wait for some feedback before you contact him. For a while, my emails were carefully crafted and edited by helpful DBers. But as time went on I got into my groove and didn't need that any more...I became mistress of the constructive, upbeat and minimal response...
Take care and hope you have a nice weekend xx
You've already been given excellent advice so all I wanted to suggest, on the heels of Sotto's superb advice, is to consider implementthing the 24 hour rule.
This means, when you want to say something/write something back, sit on it for 24 hours. As Sotto said, consider asking for advice on a response. But, slowing things down is key. This enables you to respond vs. react. It gives you time to cool down and teach yourself to think along the lines of "what is my goal here? What do I want to accomplish?"
Now, I know that you wanted him to understand how you were thinking. And that would be all great stuff if you were dealing with a normal person. But you are not, unfortunately. This is where reading about MLC and depression comes into play. As you are experiencing, people in depression can't handle their own emotions never mind another person's. It's stressful and overwhelming to them. The smallest things cause them circuit overload. It's not an act, it's real. Sadly, it is up to to find other outlets for getting out those emotions.
I am 2 years 3 months post BD and I still go back to re-read info on MLC and depression. And I did go through a "run of the mill" depression myself so, if you've gone through one, I can promise you depression is real.
Keep moving forward and stay positive.
Skm,
Not the best message but I understand when the frustration reaches a certain point, it's extremely difficult to hold it. I have been guilty of it too at the beginning and the results were always very explosive on his part, I had to apologize to calm him down (he used to say "I cannot live that way anymore...and was using my messages to justify his behavior again..), I apologized while in my head I was spewing, but my main goal was to stop him from running farther away and bring back the situation to a more "normal" level of communication.
So what did I learn from it?
They are extremely sensitive to any critics or complains.
There have no interest at all in our feelings and our complains or nagging "as they call it", just reinforce their decision. So I stopped talking about my feelings and focused more about being respected.
If i had something not nice to say, it was most probably better not to say it. Unless I didn't care anymore about our relationship. I deleted a few messages.
You got some great pieces of advice already. I will add those to ask yourself:
What is the objective/goal of my message?
Are the words I used neutral or might be interpreted in another way?
Is it really necessary to send it? Is it going to help my situation in any way or make it worst?
Do not you use YOU when writing a complain, it's way too personal.
Re read the threads on:
detachment
pursuit and distance
Please learn to DETACH, you are detaching not for him but for your own sake.
Detaching doesn't mean you are not caring or loving him anymore but you are not affected by his words or actions the same way, so de facto the situation becomes calmer, more manageable.
Haven't heard from you in a while...just checking on you.
Hey SBJ, thanks for checking on me.
I have purposefully not come here to post recently. The last post I made I got a HUGE 2x4 and I'm sure it was needed, but I think it went a bit too far. I feel as if we come here for support and encouragement. I unfortunately did not feel that after the 2x4. I also know that we will make mistakes along the way and if I remember correctly we should pick ourselves up and do better, and that is what I am trying to do.
Nothing has changed in my sitch. I still do not hear from my H, and I do not make any sort of contact with him. I don't expect to hear from him either.
I wonder if all of this is really what I want to continue to do. I know I still have a lot of work to do on me. Honestly I have been doing all of this work in hopes that he would come back, but how is that going to happen when we have no contact? What I do know after re-reading the responses to my posts is that all of this work should be for me and not H. Because otherwise what really is the point of all of this. My H is not living in reality and I don't know that he ever will. I have to let him go through this on his own. I just hope that he can figure things out.
I have said in the past that if he wants the D then he can file, so I will continue to wait and see what happens from that standpoint.
I hope you are finding some peace in your sitch. It sounds like your W is like my H living in a fantasy world. Will they ever come out, who knows?
Sorry you having a hard time of things. I think detachment is the key for us. It is hard and I still have moments, but it is getting better. We will make mistakes along the road and can only try to do better along the way.
It has been said many times on here that it is up to you to decide when you are done standing. You have to decide if he's worth the fight. If he is, then you know what to do. If your hurt outweighs your love, then you have some decisions to make.
At this point in their journey we have been forgotten or at least all of our good times together have been. When and if they ever come out of this, we will be their only source of those true memories. Both good and bad. (Paraphrased from AmyC).
I pray that your path gets easier. God Bless!
I am really sorry you felt those those posts as "too much".
They were trying to help you, to give you advice (guidelines) for your future messages. They care for you, they were worried, they were just trying to help you not to push him further away.
I didn't find them offensive but helpful. I know by experience if you express your true feelings to the MLCers, usually it does not go very well with them, even when you are piecing, you still need to be very careful about the words being used, yesterday I had to hold myself a few times, but I knew if I was going to say what I had in my mind, it was going to be a disaster, so I asked myself "Is it worth the fight we might have after?".
You are doing that work on you for YOU not for HIM, the main goal is for you to be able to rebuild your life through that terrible phase you are going through right now. By working on detaching, your reactions to his behavior won't affect you the same which makes the relationship between the two of you less explosive while still having feeling for him.
Even if I am in the piecing phase with my husband, he is still very "touchy", but somehow it doesn't bother me that much anymore since I am detached, I do care for him but I know I can be ME even without him.
I know it's tough for you not to have any contact with him, but did you think about sending him a message to apologize about being so "straightforward of him", it doesn't mean you mean it but it could be a way to reopen the line of communication again between the two of you. I did that a few times, just to calm down the situation, I was fuming inside but it worked. I felt like a doormat but I was successful to stop him to run further away from me and reconsider his position, Psysara did the same a few times.
Don't try to put a timeline on his MLC, there is no way to know when they might come out of it.
Care for yourself, I know it's painful and some days are worst than others.
One day at a time, tell yourself he doesn't define me, I am not the cause of his MLC and I am going to show him what he is losing.
Remember don't beg, don't nag, don't engage in any R talks, those are big No No. MLCers hate pressure and "negative talks". That's a very special game we need to play in order to stay in, it's not fair for us but our options are very limited.
Big Hug and hope this coming week will be a better one.
Hello Skyhigh....
Let me start off by saying I know that those 2x4s are meant as a way to "wake us up" and are not meant to be offensive, and I'm sure I did get told what I needed to hear, I just felt it was too much. With that said I am not going to focus on it any longer.
This is where I am trying to decide if I can or should continue to stand for my M. I have not seen this man since November and I have not spoken to him since the first of January. He does not initiate contact AT ALL. I am the one who sends the texts and they are usually about the dogs. Now I love my dogs and they are my children, but honestly do I really need to continue contact with him about dogs? He says he wants to know how they are doing, so then why doesn't he send a text and ask?
I did think about sending him a text to apologize for my earlier message that I sent him, but have no clue what I would say. I sent that text to him 2 weeks ago so I'm sure he has long since forgotten about it.
He continues to ignore the bigger things like taxes and other financial issues. He has since taken out another loan, which I can only assume is to pay off his large debt.
I know that him cheating during out marriage doesn't define who I am. I have been on my own for 14 months and don't need him to make sure I survive because I have done it for this long. I was the bread winner in the relationship. Since he has been gone my financial status as actually improved because he is not here to continue to be selfish with his choices to want to spend money.
Someone last week at my work asked me "what are you waiting for" in regard to the D. Sometimes I wonder that myself? How much longer can I continue to play this game with him when I am the only one who is willing to play?
He abandoned me, walked away for our marriage and everything that comes with that. Does he really deserve me?
May be you are playing/putting with that game because at the end if you end up filing for divorce somehow you will be sure that you tried everything to salvage that marriage and it will make it "easier" to move on without having that nagging feeling "may be I should have tried that ... or gave him more time".
How much longer, only you can answer that question. It really depends of each individual, I know that a few months ago, at one point I gave myself a dateline and decided if no progress were made I was going to file. I was willing to be a lighthouse but not forever and with boundaries, but some don't mind waiting for a few years. It's a very personal decision, there is no right or wrong answer.
Does he deserve you? Sincerely I don't think so, his behavior shows a complete lack of respect toward you, he is in full replay, until something cracks his fantasy land, he will keep going.
You deserve a loving/caring companion, you have been very patient.
May be realizing that you are really moving on, is going to wake him up from his fantasy land. Who knows? Again there is no guarantee.
May be you are his back up plan if suddenly he needs "monetary help", that's why he didn't file. MLCers are very manipulative and selfish. Who knows?
That's only my opinion in regard of your question, and only you can decide until when you are willing to wait, only you can decide how much you can bear, only you can decide when enough is enough.
That's a journey, a tough one, we are mourning the marriage we thought we had, we need time to process our emotions and make up our mind about our decisions.
What do you feel is the best for YOU, for your own sake?
There is no wrong or right answer, the best answer is the one you feel is the one you can live with, the one that satisfy your mental sake the best, because at one point you deserve to be in peace with.
Skyhigh is correct that only you can decide when you've had enough. You have to be the one that makes the decision and you can't allow others to influence your decision, i.e., friends, co-workers, etc. Why? Because they aren't walking in your shoes and do not understand what is transpiring in your life. Sure, it's easy for others to say file for divorce, but it's a difficult decision and needs to be made when a person is calm and not when they are angry or upset.
There's no way to determine if he'll wake up and come to his senses if you file. I wouldn't think of using the filing as a tactic to get him back...if you file, you file for you and you alone.
You will know when you've had enough...
Please start a new thread. You've reached the 100 posting limit for this one. Also, be sure to link your threads together. If you do not know how to do this, I'll be happy to provide you info on how to link them. Thanks!
Job and Skyhigh......thank you for responding.
I know that ultimately it is up to me when I am ready to give up on this. I know that everyone just wants me to be happy and not in pain anymore. I think they feel that if I just get the D then my pain will be gone.....but it wont. I agree that he doesn't deserve me and that is also one thing that keeps coming into my head about filing or not.
I filed in the past and to be honest I did that to try to scare him and for him to see what he was going to be missing out on. He didn't sign papers for me to follow through with it so I had it dismissed. I have since told him that if he wants a D then he can file for it.
I do think about if he is using me for monetary purposes, and for keeping his credit in good standing by continuing to pay the mortgage. I really hate to think that he has turned into that heartless of a man and would do something like that. But this is the same man that I was married to for 10 years who cheated on me and then turned his back on me and abandoned our marriage, and has not seen me since November and has not spoken to me since the first of January.
I wanted to send him a text to see if he could help me with the dogs as I am working the next 5 out of 6 days (12 hour shifts). I also wanted to apologize for the last text I sent him. Any thoughts on that anyone?
Job.....I don't know how to start a new thread......sorry
You would start a new thread just as you did this one. When you come here and are at the MLC Forum listing where all of the threads are listed, look in the upper left-hand corner for the box that says "New Topic" in red. Click on the box and begin posting and be sure to add a subject line. The other way to do it is to click on the box next to the "New Topic" which says "Forum Options". Click on it and then scroll down to "New Topic" and click on it and start posting.
Here's the thread on how to link threads:
How to Link Threads I'm going to lock this thread and will be happy to link it to your new thread. Once you've started your new thread, try to link this thread to it. If you have a problem, I'll be happy to come by and link it later on for you.
I make every effort, as a Moderator and poster, to encourage posters to learn how to utilize the tools that will help them maneuver around the Board.
New Thread:
WAS vs MLC...not sure it really makes a difference, II