http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2707280#Post2707280Hmmm....part 22 (feels like part 222!) but, here we are continuing the story. Old thread above.
So, things have been OK since Tuesday's 'showdown'. I did spin a little on Tuesday night, but since then, I have managed a full nights sleep. It feels like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I accept, quite readily now, that I don't think I was DB'ing correctly. I see now, like a blind man who has been given the gift of sight, that I was doing everything to try and please W, not myself. Doh!
Finished up work yesterday, and went for a beer and a burger with one of my colleagues. Not a late do, but it was good to talk out of the office and be frank. My colleague is 'gay' for want of a better word, but has also had a really bad year, and we chewed the cud until about 9pm. Earlier in the day, everybody in my department had been sent an email requiring us to attend an off site strategy meeting in the new year. Normally, these things would bother me, but right now, I don't really care.
Today's plans require me to get off my lazy backside and head for the gym (yesterday's burger was enormous, and I feel like an entire cow is sat in my stomach), then grab some last bits of food shopping, clean the flat and then settle down with a glass of Glayvar and relax.
So, Merry Christmas to you all and let's hope 2017 is a h@ll of a lot better. Oh, I forgot, W - not a peep from her!
Hi Huddy
...I see now, like a blind man who has been given the gift of sight, that I was doing everything to try and please W, not myself. Doh!...
Well, this sounds like a good Xmas present to yourself Huddy! Sometimes we need these incidents to move us forwards. but the balancing act is go please yourself exactly as you describe above - and keep the door a touch ajar if you so choose.
I'm glad to hear you had a drink out with your friend and hope you can offer support to each other after a difficult year. 2017 is going to be better I'm sure
In the meantime, enjoy some R&R and look forward to some festive time with your kids a little later in the holidays.
Take care Huddy x
I disagree you were dbing. But now another important part has clicked into place. This can only be good for you.
Best wishes and happy Christmas
Huddy, regardless of whether you were, in fact, getting A levels in DBing or not - the point to me is this: you took back your power that you were giving to WAW, or as NDY said, the equipment is no longer in her handbag! That has to feel good! Use the time you have now to re-integrate that power. The longer she is silent, the stronger you will become. It truly is a gift to you.
Your day sounds lovely actually. Enjoy the downtime. Here's something that helped me more than I realized: I chose something I really wanted to do in 2016 - an intention rather than a resolution. I chose something that was easily achievable, but required a bit of grit on my part: I wanted to sing in public at this drop in group class and, more importantly, solo at an open mic. I'm happy to say I did both, just finishing the latter and it feels great. It was way out of my comfort zone, but something I'd wanted to do for a very, very long time. I highly suggest you think about what it is you'd like to do in 2017 and give yourself the year to get it done. The last open mic of 2016 was on the day our D was finalized. To me that was a sign, so I got my butt over there and sang. Dragon slayed... by the princess herself, no knight required, thank you very much. Feels great. Want the same for you in the new year. So, give it a thought ... mull it over as you're enjoying your glayvar. Wishing you happiness and peace this next little bit and into 2017 xoxoxoxo
So you let it go. Good. Now it's Huddy time. I'll drink to that mate. Cheers. Like the others said. Now the streangth come because you are no longer looking over your shoulder at what she's doing, to see if she's noticing.
Keep looking forward mate. That's the direction you're traveling in. You know my number so text if you need me.
Peace
Morning all
Thanks for all stopping by and saying hello on my thread. Hope everyone had a pleasant Christmas Day (well, in the circumstances anyway).
Managed to get my backside to the gym to work off that burger. It was enormous. Two burgers in a brioche bun, with bacon, chees and onion rings! Got job I hadn't anything else apart from a yoghurt. Got the flat cleaned and looking good (I know men are suppose to live in smelly caves, but I like the place to feel like I could bring somebody around if I wanted) and settled down for some festive TV. Unfortunately, my festive tipple had to be substituted for Baileys - the off licence had run out of Glayvar!
Called the kids yesterday, but did so on my SD's phone, as she had been pressured in to going with W to help look after them. My D was really excited to talk to me (I heard her shout DADDY!!!, when my SD called her over) and even my S, who has very little speech managed a muffled 'Merry Christmas'. I didn't speak to W.
Quiet day catching up on stuff on TV and then I got down to sorting out the kids presents for when they get back. Managed a traditional dinner for myself and generally got through the day, without thinking about W all day.
George Michael was one of my W's 'fantasy dates', so the news that he has died at such an early age will have sent her spinning today. Let's face it, 53 is no age to go. I know he'd been seen less in public, and had been pilling on the pounds, but he was still a good songwriter and performer. A bit like us all really, we age, some of us better than others, but that doesn't stop us being the person we are inside.
Anyway, it's been snowing here, but hasn't laid and it's now sunny. The temperature has dropped and it's certainly colder than yesterday. So, going for a long walk later (weather permitting) and then tomorrow, I'm off tho pick up the kids presents.
Yeah, it was good Roist! Perhaps you shouldn't finish it in one sitting though!
Went to the pictures (Movies/Cinema/Flicks) on my own for the first time today. Got up really early as I wanted to see the early morning showing of Star Wars - Rogue One. Sadly, it seemed everyone else had the same idea, and my vision of being in a small group watching the film, turned in to a full house! If you haven't seen it, I recommend a booking.
Yesterday, the Christmas presents I'd arranged for the kids got cancelled by the provider! Too many orders it seems, so I went 'old skool' and trotted of to the shops. Success. Now before anyone thinks I'm a skinflint, as they were going away, I thought I could get more for my money in the sales. They wouldn't know and they'd get better gifts for the same cash.
Back to today, and after the film, I had a bite to eat and then came home to finish wrapping the gifts. SD texted me to tell me that W had taken her and the kids to a museum. No great shakes, but my W just doesn't do museums. In fact wild horses would be needed to drag her there! Where I was born and brought up, it is highly industrial, which interests me, but my W used to hate me taking her to such things. SD said she'd bought me a gift from the museum.
I've had a text from W just now. She is returning early from her parents (she wasn't due to travel until Friday) and will be dropping the kids of early as they want to see me. Guilt, unable to cope, falling out, who knows, but it'll be great to se them.
I was dreading this 'alone time' really, but I've managed to fit so much in every day that I've only really say down now. I've caught up on some new TV, some old TV (if you're in to 1980's UK drama, type in 'Thames television Widows in to YouTube and you'll be in for a treat!) and got some reading in. I've been out a lot and caught up some sleep. So, not bad if I say so myself. As I said to my bud NDY - not dead yet!
Hi Huddy, good for you getting through the Xmas period so positively! So your W is returning early? Not the sign of a great visit...
Hope you enjoy your festivities with the kids my friend.
Again, something I picked up on an of forum chat with NDY, I guess, we still look over our shoulder. I had about 30 minutes wondering why she was coming back early. My D confirmed that she had decided to come back early the day before, with no apparent reason. She asked my D if she missed Daddy (which of course she did) which may have provided an appropriate excuse. Unfortunately, in this mis timed approach, W forgot to bring clean clothes for the kids, which means I've been washing like a madman and had to go and get fresh underwear.
Having just read caliguys thread, I can see this all part of temp checking - am I there where she wants me, when she wants me. She thought it would be so easy for her to get me to take her to her next set of plastic surgery and then repeat infinitum. I think I have managed to make my point there.
Odd thing today, I was out with the kids in the local shopping centre (it's D's birthday next week - 7, I can't believe it!) and D came across a friends' mother. This woman, who I barely remember, but seemed to know both of the kids well, spoke to my D and then gave me that withering 'top to bottom' look reserved for people who have committed terrible crimes, guilty by flogging. No words, nothing, just a look. Again, reading through other threads, I know the MLC'er will have spread a story of doom and disaster based on me. It just felt weird.
Anyway, onwards.
Dude
Having just read caliguys thread, I can see this all part of temp checking - am I there where she wants me, when she wants me.
The secrete is not to care if she's temp checking.
Peace
Happy new year Huddy. I'm glad you had a good holiday so far. And that the kids returned early x
Hi Esame
Thanks. Hope you had a good break as well.
NDY
As always, your local input is appreciated and welcome.
Sotto
No, not the sign of a great trip! Since she came back on Thursday, she has called or texted me every day but one. Some of it is mundane stuff (how are the kids; when did S have his medicine; is D playing a game on the computer) and some of it a bit weird. Take New Years Day. W texted to see how the kids were. I replied they were OK and that we'd just got up. Almost instantly I got some weird text about how the kids enjoy being with 'you' so much and how they always have fun. I just replied that they were great and got another one back about hoping we're enjoying ourselves.
Some of this might be loneliness. I know that SD was away over New Year and the kids were with me. The texts were either early in the morning, or mid evening. Of course (expecting the 2x4 from NDY) I don't really know what's going on. When she picked the kids up today, she made an over excited welcome of the kids and then asked for her maintenance cheque. She complained that it 'wasn't on time', to which I reminded her it was her choice to go away and that if she doesn't ask, she doesn't get.
W then reminded me about D's party on Saturday then texted me when she got home about S's medicine and that she was going to run him a bath. Probably temp checking.
Journaling
W contacted me a few times during the week by text. Mundane stuff, and nothing that couldn't have waited until weekend.
D's birthday party yesterday. No contact from W about coming to help set it up, so I just appeared at 1315 for a 1330 start. This seemed to annoy W greatly and she didn't acknowledge my presence or talk to me for the first hour. Hey ho, I spent most of it looking after my S. I got there on the bus but W asked me back to her house and then suggested that she would take me home.
I spent about 90 minutes with her and the kids. She asked me, again, to look after the kids when she was having her cosmetic surgery, although the recovery time has now extended to two weeks. She then went on about me 'not listening to her/never listening to her', so I validated (I think I had said something about her saying she'd said one week), so I guess that's a clue.
W took me home, and the kids came. My S said she wish I could stay; I didn't say anything. After about an hour, W texted me to ask if I could look after S today. I said yes, as she wanted to take D for a bike. I'd been with her for six hours and she said nothing.
W brought S over about 1230. Very pleasant and off she went....except, she'd made it down the three flights of stairs, turned around and then came bursting through the door to ask to go to the toilet! As my S was running around, she also checked out my bedroom. She came back for S about 2 hours later.
Do/did you listen to her?
Maybe it is a manipulation ploy, but maybe in your M she actually never felt heard. Could that be true?
Out of curiosity, how have you changed in your interactions with W since you decided that you had had enough?
Best wishes
Hi Roist
Yes, I thought I did. Maybe I wasn't hearing cries for help or something - who knows. I was never unapproachable.
No change really in the interaction stakes. I am still NC unless it comes to the kids, however, she doesn't spew at the moment.
Hi mate
No 4X2 this time. You changed it up. She may not have liked it but she did respect it, and we all know what the vets (especially Sandi2) say about respect.
So we don't really know why she's changed her attitude. She could realise she needs you for her 'ahem' scar removal [sic] or she could realise what's she's letting go of. Or a million other different things that are going on in her head but to me that doesn't matter. Your attitude has changed and she know's it. If it were me? I'd have another ready at DB and use these opportunities to 'try what works' and re read the thread on the dance of pursuit and distance.
Now the text messages. Ok so she's upped her contact. That could be a good sign but the new Huddy doesn't answer right away (with exception to emergency contacts RE the kids). No, the new Huddy is busy with his life. He'll get back to you when he can (leave it for an hour or so, then txt back like you're busy and in a hurry. No overly long texts and straight to the point. Like you are distracted). Give her something to think about and at the same time you try what works.
But all in all keep those expectations in check. She's not going to turn up tomorrow all teary saying the last 2 years were a big mistake. It won't happen that way.
Keep it up mate. Text me if you need to.
Peace
Hi NDY
Will contact you off forum later in week (Kidneys still playing up
Yup, no idea why she's started to change. Yes, my attitude has changed. She texted me the other day via 'whats app', but as I didn't have a very good wifi signal, I couldn't respond for about three hours. When I did, I got an instant reply - like, I had only finished the message and I got one back.
I still have my DB book (I have, unfortunately, had to lend in out once) and I will re-read the section on pursuit and distance. I have no expectations as it could just be MLC'er manipulation. I did, however, compliment her on her organising skills for D's party and she seemed pleased.
Onwards, with kidney infection in tow!
You've got to love the MLC'er! They are so contrary, they can't even manage to get through two sentences without contradicting themselves.
So, W brought over the kids and SD came too. SD wanted to talk to me about train times, so stayed for tea - yippee! We had a good old chinwag and made plans for her to go to her boyfriend's, father's, wedding in April. I'll book the train tickets for her and she can pay me back later. No worries. Other two kids are having fun and are great.
It's W's birthday next week, so I got a present for her from the kids, and SD is on the card as well, although she is also buying her a book. I did say I don't know why I bother, but SD told me it was nice and that she will like it. Nothing fancy; chocolates from Thorntons and a perfume set that was on sale at John Lewis. It wasn't 'til I got back that I realised it had a Christmas scene on the box! Oh well, I wasn't going to spend a fortune.
W arrived to pick up the kids. First off, compared to Sunday, she was in a narky mood. Stomped in hurrying the kids along, which is difficult when one child is disabled, one needs the toilet and the eldest has got the same kidney infection that I had
W then moved on to aske me if I could have the kids on a date in February. I said I couldn't as I was going to be working (well, we all need some extra overtime sometimes) and reminded her that it was her idea to change the weekends around. She sighed and said she wanted to go to a school friends parents birthday party.
W then started to have a go at me about her maintenance payment. She said she wanted it early and in cash as she had 'spent a lot at Christmas and she had just paid for D's birthday party, and I haven't got any money'. Errr.....hang on a minute. She's having plastic surgery next month; bought the kids an xbox for Christmas and is wanting to go on night's out with her friends, but it's my fault she has no money? Yeah, that'll be right.
Before I could say anything, W laid in to me with a 'don't you shrug your shoulders' (I hadn't done anything as I was tying my S's shoelaces at the time), 'you owe me that money' (yes, when I get paid), before she turned on her heels and marched down the stairs!
Phew! Chickens coming home to roost perhaps? Live within your means? Don't rely on the person who supported you through thick and thin for 18 years, and then you decided to get rid of with a casual 'I don't find you physically attractive anymore'. I could have said all that, but what's the point. She needs to work all that out for herself - right?
She has a lot to learn...how to budget her money and not to expect to be paid her maintenance any earlier than expected. Her priorities aren't in the right place at the moment.
I do hope you and your child are feeling better soon.
She really does need to grow up.
Hi Job
Typical MLC'er behaviour isn't it? You can't moan if you throw your anchor over the side and then when you need it, it's not there. A lot of growing up to do.
I'm better, but my SD is suffering a bit. It all seems to stem from the kids party we attended. Thanks for asking.
Haven't posted for a while, so here's what's been going on!
It was my W's birthday this week. I didn't wish send her wishes or anything. It seemed a bit cold, but as sandi 2 says, no rewards for bad behaviour. I'd bought gifts for her from the kids, but she said nothing.
The previous week my D had been ill again (a bug going around school), and she had contacted me to tell me she was unwell. She also told me her surgery was being moved back a week and could I reorganise the time off I need to look after the kids. I said I could and she almost seemed like her old self on the phone - pleasant and nice. Well that is until I called later that night to see how D was doing. I got a 'what do you want' when she picked up the phone. It was if she hadn't even remembered that she called. Is it unusual for their behaviour to change so much in just 6 hours?
This week, on Wednesday, my S got the bug. She called me, but it was just shuffling noises coming down the phone. I gave it a minute and hung up. A couple of hours later she called me again to tell me about S. She was telling me how much he was vomiting and that she was struggling. Sadly, there is nothing I could have done, as by the time I had got to her house on the bus etc. it would have been late. Of course I sympathised, and said I would call in the morning.
I called the next morning and she told me how hard it had been through the night. She had to change my S's bedding at least twice, as well as her own bedding. It sounded brutal, and she had only got about two hours sleep. Again, I listened and said I would get some medicine etc. but she said she already had it. I called later that night and the next morning to check. By yesterday morning, S had stabilised and I said I would see them later when W brought them over. These conversations were pleasant, but I could sense that the struggle in her.
When she dropped them off, she sped away. I don't know if that was because she had a 'date' planned, or just wanted to miss the traffic. She came today to pick up D to go to a party. Not over friendly today and she complained about also feeling poorly.
Some days, she seems like she is trying to 'say something' by sticking around longer than she needs to or by being pleasant. That could be manipulation then at other times she seems downright cold and won't look at me.
My SD got me to join Facebook, so she could send me messages over the messenger app. Somehow, W could also get these messages and she wondered why I had joined. Obviously she didn't ask me, or make me a 'friend' (well, I haven't either as she's using her maiden name on there!). That has given me another avenue to contact my bud NDY (formerly of this village) and then, out of the blue, my best man got in contact. He's coming up in April for a few beers, so that should be good.
As for me, well, NDY and I are going to organise something to keep us occupied and things are much of a muchness.
A question about guilt and manipulation. My W has started to post on my SD's Facebook page about karma and guilt. Bizarre, but stick with me here, some of these posts refer to 'when people do $hitty tings to you, and then make you feel guilty' kind of phrases.
Just wondering if this is normal behaviour for MLC'ers to make the guilt of their actions spin round to reflect on the sane spouse? Defence mechanism or just keeping up the pretence that everything that is wrong with them is somehow our fault?
I can say they do insane things I've seen it in my w,they don't know what they are doing half the time,I wouldent put any thing past them,something is not right in their heads some of the things they do is bizzar/ weird/strange/,
Its all to do with hormones and chemicals in other heads,
I can say they do insane things I've seen it in my w,they don't know what they are doing half the time,I wouldent put any thing past them,something is not right in their heads some of the things they do is bizzar/ weird/strange/,
Its all to do with hormones and chemicals in other heads,
Also forgot to say yes they kinda put the label of what they are feeling or doing on you,
Passing the buck kind of,my w does this too,even when they are blatantly doing some thing bad,they say what do you take me for I would never do any thing like that,
Remember they are in denial and compulsive liners,
Hi Huddy,
Glad to see you pop in. I thinks it's all part of the swirl going on in their head and perhaps some manipulation too.
I say that because I've experienced it myself with my stbx.
Very recently someone on this board made the comment about how they (the mlcers) transform themselves from the villain to the victim, just cycling the blame back. Very true statement that I've also experienced first hand. This is why we detach!
Hope you're well.
Hi Huddy,
Glad to see you pop in. I thinks it's all part of the swirl going on in their head and perhaps some manipulation too.
I say that because I've experienced it myself with my stbx.
Very recently someone on this board made the comment about how they (the mlcers) transform themselves from the villain to the victim, just cycling the blame back. Very true statement that I've also experienced first hand. This is why we detach!
Hope you're well.
Yep well put that's exactly ,my wife made me out to be the villain to my kids still is doing I think,but since I exposed her with other man married,its not so good for her,her cover is blown,now no one ever sees her shops out of town,
Hi Pax/Maly
Thanks for your input. I don't know, I just can't work out how on earth she could get the guilt back to me! My friend is coming up at the end of next month and will fill me in on what lies my SIL has been spinning. Needless to say, I'm the bad guy.
Today now has some added madness. My W has bought a new car! Yep, traded in the old one and now has a 4X4. Only two weeks ago she was pleading poverty and asking for her maintenance in cash. She also cam dressed for the gym (latest craze) which I've never heard her say before. When she left her first husband, she told me about going swimming to meet men and that she had a mini crisis when she was 31. Guess she's cycling the same pattern again.
Not bad for somebody who declared homelessness, lives in local authority temporary accommodation and is having more cosmetic surgery in two weeks time. So, this probably the cycle of trying to find happiness. I have my kids this weekend, so, time to concentrate on them.
I think people in crisis have a great deal of self-pity and don't tend to recognise how their own decisions and behaviours have contributed. It probably isn't a conscious spinning of the guilt - more a currently held belief that you have been responsible for her feeling unhappy.
That does tend to change in time - particularly if your own behaviour is pleasant and reasonable.
Oh boy in respect of the car - presumably you have all financials separately now and if she is taking on debt that will be 'hers' and not 'yours.'
Hi Sotto
Yes, all financials separate. God knows how she got finance with her being homeless. Don't know how that would effect any future legals as the previous car would have been classed as a marital asset.
Hi Pax/Maly
Thanks for your input. I don't know, I just can't work out how on earth she could get the guilt back to me! My friend is coming up at the end of next month and will fill me in on what lies my SIL has been spinning. Needless to say, I'm the bad guy.
Today now has some added madness. My W has bought a new car! Yep, traded in the old one and now has a 4X4. Only two weeks ago she was pleading poverty and asking for her maintenance in cash. She also cam dressed for the gym (latest craze) which I've never heard her say before. When she left her first husband, she told me about going swimming to meet men and that she had a mini crisis when she was 31. Guess she's cycling the same pattern again.
Not bad for somebody who declared homelessness, lives in local authority temporary accommodation and is having more cosmetic surgery in two weeks time. So, this probably the cycle of trying to find happiness. I have my kids this weekend, so, time to concentrate on them.
Yep my w got the new convertible car,and keeps getting tattoos lol ,she is 52
It's funny, but you think you know somebody, and then you don't!
I was talking to a colleague at work the other day. I've known her for about seven years, but as we work in different departments, we never really chatted. We were both in the kitchen making something to eat at work, when she was asking me what I was planning to do at the weekend. I explained I was having the kids and related that W was in MLC. We sat together to have our food when, out of the blue, she related her story to me.
She had been married very young (18) and now had a grown up daughter. After about 15 years with her husband, she suddenly started to feel 'odd' and looked at her body differently and wished she could do different things. She looked at her tummy and boobs and considered having surgery (I had told her that W was going under the knife again). She left her husband for a while and even went 'escorting' to try and pay for her treatment.
She related to me that she felt angry and confused, but didn't really know why. At the time she was only 33, so didn't think about it being a crisis, but just couldn't work out what the problem was. The usual script of blaming her husband was brought out, but it was the case of her sister contracting breast cancer that finally shook her out of the cycle.
She went back to her family a broken person, but after some time, they did get back together. That was 12 years ago. She has many regrets, but was telling me this so that I didn't give up hope. I explained I didn't think there was any change on the horizon, and that W was as mean as ever, buying cars etc. My friend explained that it will come to an end.
Obviously, I share this on here as we're all anonymous, and won't tell anyone at work, but it does give me some hope in my weaker times that things will get better and that hope and happiness comes from within,
It was nice of you to share. I think people hearing success stories in RL give much more hope than internet ones . It is just more.....well real.
There is always hope. Keep your hope alive but don't overfeed it.
In the meantime enjoy the "six nations"
Best wishes
Two ways to go here, so, might need some input!
My W has gone for her second round of cosmetic surgery today. I have dropped her at the clinic. This is a normal piece of manipulation by the MLC'er, or, I'm just being my usual self (nice). I have the kids for the next two and half weeks, so I also have W's new car.
On the way to the clinic, we chatted. No R stuff. It's the most conversation we've had for nearly two years. It was friendly, and she even laughed at one point. She seemed genuinely interested in my convo. Again, could just be manipulation as I'm dropping her off.
The only time she got prickly was when I asked what she was having done. She claimed she is having her scar tightened, but the recovery time isn't long enough, but it does match the time for a boob job.
I can see that it is full MLC at work. Whilst I was at the house, she went to the toilet, and I overheard her talking to herself about not feeling old etc. She also relayed that one of her clients (hairdressing) had died at 65 through ill health and that she wasn't much younger (13 years actually!). I also noticed she has multiple credit accounts with department stores and car companies, so I guess that is how she is financing her spending.
She also mentioned that the council would now be leaving her in the homeless house, instead of getting her something bigger. My D had already told me this, but she also told me that 'Mummy had to decide'. Hmmmm......is she poking my buttons to see if I react?
SD is also coming to stay, so W will be completely alone during her recovery time. Whilst normally I would say this is manipulation, how can I move the situation on without communication? Not sure if this is right path.
Alright dude? Not much traffic around here so I thought I'd post here rather than in private.
So I met a lot of new guys over the mainland Europe trip, and one of them would be more than welcome here. His story is way worse than mine. Poor guy is in a real [self censored] storm with his ex. And he's much younger. Anyway I had the usual talk with him and it's clear he's never been to this site nor read any of the books. I could tell without mentioning any of it that he's no clue as to this stuff. Anyway after about half a hour of convo with me telling him about what I've learned from this place that his eyes started to light up and his attitude changed. Sure, i'll give him the proper low down later on but everything I said to him just resonated. Not because I've been through the big D but he started to realise that he needs to drop the victim card. He didn't cause his situation and he's not to blame for his STBXW's affair. Not by a long shot.
Anyway my reason for bringing this up is this. After our chat he said almost too keenly 'would you take her back'. I won't go into what my response is but I'm willing to bet the vets here would have been proud of me. And he couldn't believe what I was saying. Because it was completely different from how he feels. If she said tomorrow lets get back together he would say yes. No effort and no remorse on her part. Just forget about the last two years and continue as nothing had happened. And so would you if your W did the same. Am I right? of course I am. And that's the point. She knows this just as much as that poor guy's STBXW knows it. So they will exploit that situation as much as possible. Your STBXW is doing that right now.Remember when they said they need to feel the loss? Well it ain't material loss that's for sure. It's not about money. And if they don't yearn to not loose you (coz at the moment they havent) then they can do what they like while you just hang in the shadows hoping for something to change. Nah mate. Not a way to live your life. Go on your journey happy and confident and if she wants back you will soon know. Right now in your mind this is nothing but a falling out. A big one but a falling out none the less. Well it's not. It's way bigger than that. Move forward.
Two ways to go here, so, might need some input!
My W has gone for her second round of cosmetic surgery today. I have dropped her at the clinic. This is a normal piece of manipulation by the MLC'er, or, I'm just being my usual self (nice). I have the kids for the next two and half weeks, so I also have W's new car.
On the way to the clinic, we chatted. No R stuff. It's the most conversation we've had for nearly two years. It was friendly, and she even laughed at one point. She seemed genuinely interested in my convo. Again, could just be manipulation as I'm dropping her off.
It's not manipulation. It's just a conversation. Don't end up in the friend zone.
The only time she got prickly was when I asked what she was having done. She claimed she is having her scar tightened, but the recovery time isn't long enough, but it does match the time for a boob job.
So what. She's either in MLC or self conscious about her body. Or perhaps she really wants a boob job for another reason. It's her body. Let her get on with it. You don't need to support her decision. It doesn't matter what the reason is.
I can see that it is full MLC at work. Whilst I was at the house, she went to the toilet, and I overheard her talking to herself about not feeling old etc. She also relayed that one of her clients (hairdressing) had died at 65 through ill health and that she wasn't much younger (13 years actually!). I also noticed she has multiple credit accounts with department stores and car companies, so I guess that is how she is financing her spending.
Feeling old is normal. Denying it is also normal. Let's not over complicate things. I still feel you read way too much into what you see and hear from her. You're still holding onto that rope no matter how much you think you aren't.
She also mentioned that the council would now be leaving her in the homeless house, instead of getting her something bigger. My D had already told me this, but she also told me that 'Mummy had to decide'. Hmmmm......is she poking my buttons to see if I react?
No she has a housing problem she needs to deal with. You don't so unless if affects the kids butt out. Not your issue. Let her pull on her big girl pants. You aren't there to rescue her.
SD is also coming to stay, so W will be completely alone during her recovery time. Whilst normally I would say this is manipulation, how can I move the situation on without communication? Not sure if this is right path.
Fine. Let her be alone. Dude if she wanted you there you would know. If she wanted to talk you would know. Neither of these things are happening.
Let it go dude.
Just let it go.
Peace
Hi Huddy , I still follow your thread and just want to back up everything NDY is saying. I think a while back you posted that WW had asked you to mind kids while she had latest round of surgery and you told her no. What happened for that to change ? Again , you have to let go. Just my thoughts but reading your posts you haven't and while its so hard to do , you really need to for anything to happen.
Take care , RD
Hi NDY/Rd
RD - long time no see! Hope you're doing fine in the Republic.
I'm still gauging this manipulation thing. Yes, I wasn't going to take her, but she started to pull some strokes about getting somebody else to look after the kids. Whilst I know she wouldn't (deep down), I couldn't allow that to happen. I also wanted to see how she was actually coping. To answer that last question, not well. I can't imagine how much debt she is racking up. Cars, beauty salons, cosmetic surgery; it must be huge.
Of course I'd have her back - hey, that's why we came here, but maybe I'm not getting it across that I have changed and it would be different. She'd have to convince me that she actually wants to come back and I don't think she's anywhere near that place.
Yesterday, she texted me to go over and see her with the kids. I was picking SD up, so that wasn't a problem. She had applied make up, and done her hair. She told me she was upset that I hadn't replied to a text she sent me on Sunday. I didn't think it needed and urgent reply, so left it and then forgot about it.
Today is my birthday and she sent me a text wishing me happy birthday. I sent a simple reply saying thank you. I'm not pandering, or getting any expectations, but there is a change. I just don't know what.
Im doing great mate , i think sometimes we are so deep in our sitch that we cant aee what appears to be obvious to others not emotionally invested.
Please take this as my observations and i obviously have nothing to go o but your posts. Your W is living her life and moving forward. New car , cosmetic surgery etc. Yes she has problems like money and housing but right now she does t seem bothered by them and shes focusing on what she feels is important. Huddy needs to move forward. WW is moving forward. You ask how can you.move forward without conversation and that is so true BUT you have conversation and have had since day 1. Your life brother but its passing by. Will WW ever want you back , IMHO she knows ahe can if she wants so its not something that concerns her right now. If you want to wait then all good but this is a process and it has to be gone througb. DB offers you a path and guidence but its not easy. Again , just mu opinion but why would WW change anything because its all good for her right now.( in her mind )
Let go Huddy, the future is yours and your a good guy , working , beautiful kids , etc , etc. Leave WW to it , her life and her choices, be the best you and enjoy what you have because you are a very lucky man.
Hope i havent over stepped but i have been following and it seems as if your in a loop.
Take care mate.
Hi RD
Good to hear that you're doing fine! Nice to know that a couple of the 'old guys' are still knocking about. See NDY every now and again for a beer and it's good.
Of course you haven't overstepped the mark, not one bit! Certainly don't want any kind of relationship with anyone else right now. Oh yeah, miss sex loads, but, I don't want (scratch that), need anyone else right now. My W was my 'one' and I can see that she is 'befuddled' right now. I think she is a classic MLC'er, buying her way to happiness. We'll see, but I think I miss the closeness of a woman. That probably sounds sexist, but hey, we all have needs!
I am getting on with life, as it is. Got my mate coming up in a couple of weeks time and I've got plans to take the kids to LEGOLAND in the summer. That'll burn a hole in my wallet, so I've got some overtime brewing to help out! I'm no emotional wreck anymore. I have the odd lonely day, but I have found things to get me out of the house more. As you know, in the last 14 months, I've been to Hong Kong, taken the kids away on my own for the first time, got myself out to the pictures on my own and meals and the like. In 2017, I have only had one free weekend, so, not bad.
All advice is welcome. I don't post a lot anymore as my sitch is nearly two years old. I remember coming to the board and you were here, NDY, smoothy etc. and if I'd seen people still going two years down the line, 'd have lost all hope there and then and I think I would have been in a worse state. Never be afraid to launch the 2x4's!
RD!!! Did you come out of retirement?? Great to see you posting and hope all is well - sorry for the hijack Huddy :-)
BTW, I do think that is good advice from the guys - you don't have to give up on the marriage or a possible reconnection at some point. But don't put your life on hold, or watch, or wait. Make plans just for you and let her get on with her own life. Of course you can keep the door open a wee crack if that's what you want....
:-) x
Ok mate, lets go through this as best I can.
Remember the thread where you stated that you had dropped the rope? Ok so you told us this. One, you told her you were upset that she had been on a dating site. Know what this tells her? you are still attached. Because you were upset. Second, she mocked you about "being separated"and knowing what that means. At the moment I don't believe you do know what that means. Sure you have done some excellent GAL but really mate you are still there for her when she clicks her fingers. Take your b@lls out of her bag and take ownership of your manhood.
Hi NDY/Rd
RD - long time no see! Hope you're doing fine in the Republic.
I'm still gauging this manipulation thing. Yes, I wasn't going to take her, but she started to pull some strokes about getting somebody else to look after the kids. Whilst I know she wouldn't (deep down), I couldn't allow that to happen. I also wanted to see how she was actually coping. To answer that last question, not well. I can't imagine how much debt she is racking up. Cars, beauty salons, cosmetic surgery; it must be huge.
Manipulation? No, she's doing what she likes and she knows good old Huddy will be there to do her bidding. Where's the loss? Where's the taking responsibility for her actions? There isn't any. Not for her. She did what she liked and you comply or be damned as far as she's concerned. Can't you see the disrespect here? And you missed a trick to lay a boundary. Let me explain. Just a few weeks ago my ExW text me about how she had booked a trip abroad with S11 at Easter. I said fine, but in the future you need to agree to dates
before you book. I didn't say why. Didn't need to. 2 minutes later she asked if it was ok to take S11 away in the summer for EXMIL's birthday.I said this is ok. And another text to confirm that I was ok with this. Boundary set, consequence realised.
Of course I'd have her back - hey, that's why we came here, but maybe I'm not getting it across that I have changed and it would be different. She'd have to convince me that she actually wants to come back and I don't think she's anywhere near that place.
No she's not in that place. Why would she want to come back? She's living it up right now with no real responsibilities to worry about. Acting it and actually living it are two different things. And I don't believe you are living it. You'll understand when the penny drops with you.
Yesterday, she texted me to go over and see her with the kids. I was picking SD up, so that wasn't a problem. She had applied make up, and done her hair. She told me she was upset that I hadn't replied to a text she sent me on Sunday. I didn't think it needed and urgent reply, so left it and then forgot about it.
Why? To send her a message?
Wrong message mate. Indifference isn't the same a deliberate rudeness. Think about it. Reply to her messages but in your own sweet time. Ignoring them (or 'forgetting' them. Sheesh you didn't forget) Sends the wrong message. That's not the same as being too preoccupied to answer immediately. She doesn't appear to be totally bat [self censored] like Irish's ExW.
Today is my birthday and she sent me a text wishing me happy birthday. I sent a simple reply saying thank you. I'm not pandering, or getting any expectations, but there is a change. I just don't know what.
I got the same. I didn't send her one. No expectations.
Just popping by for the ritual kicking which goes with 'I told you so'.
NDY - as always, thanks. Will firm up beer date this weekend.
I did take some of your advice on and didn't contact her after the kids judo on Wednesday. Friday night I got a call from her, out of the blue. Chatting away about the kids, she told me my S had left his scarf. I said it wasn't a problem and I'd pick it up on Monday when I dropped SD off to get her clothes, as she's staying with me during this week as well. W then asked if I could come over to see her. She sounded sad and I said we'd come over at about 1pm on the Saturday.
Me and the kids had some shopping to do, so we got to W's about 10 minutes late. She'd washed her hair and painted her nails and had got dressed in a nice top (she's been wearing PJ's or joggers since the operation). She had cooked the kids some food and we stayed for a couple of hours. However, the W from the phone call had turned in to cold W again and although we talked, she couldn't look at me. I arranged to pick her up for her hospital appointment on Tuesday, as I was taking the kids for some food.
I had no word from her until Tuesday. When I got to her house, she had been out to the shops with a mysterious 'friend'. I was annoyed, because she was suppose to be house bound and I was doing all the fetching and carrying. Of course, I am stupid. I fell for the manipulation trick. I was trying to be the good man that I always have been. Maybe I was expecting a reward. What a nob.
I didn't talk at all on the way to the hospital or back. I was really pi$$ed off, with her, and myself. I took the kids, including SD, for food and when we picked her up, she was all doughy eyed about having to go to her appointment on her own next week. I said nothing, I was and still am frothing at the mouth with anger for falling for such a thing, so far down the road.
I'm typing here to get this off my chest. I'm so angry, more with myself, but also with some of my friends. I had told them I had misgivings, and they encouraged me as they all said 'she'll see just how great you are'. Arrggghhhhh!!!!!!!!!
Hi Huddy, reading your post above made me think of the ...book and the whole area of covert contracts - ie: doing something for someone and expecting to get something back.
You say you helped because that's the guy you are - but you also acknowledge you had some expectations. Then you were disappointed and angry etc..
In terms of DBing - this all suggests 'attachment' - and of course we are aiming for greater detachment because so many spouses flip flop all over the place and we'll be flip flopping too if we don't find our own groove separate to theirs.
So, the place to focus on is finding your own groove. What are your goals for yourself in coming months Huddy?
(I hope I've been gentle and nudged rather than kicked my friend :))
Hi Huddy , firstly stop beating yourself up. You love the women and your natural instinct is to care for her and help her.
I harp on about the DB process because ive been where you are. The vets on here have seen it all and we struggle to accept that the process applies to our sitch because our WAS is different ( or so we think ). Right now your W has zero fear of losing you. She may or may not care either way in the long term but right now she has no fear because you make it clear that you are option B.
Again, i think most on here understand where your mindset is but we also understand it has to change , for any hope of an R with W BUT much more importantly for Huddy.
I still get very sad texts from.EXW but to be honest i dont really pay them much attention and never answer them. I still give her a small amount of cash most months but i do it with zero expectations and for my reasons. I dont consider how EXW views it because her view on it doesnt matter to me.
I wasnt encouraging you to date but i have and it did make me feel better about myself and i dont lack self confidence to start with !!!! Its a tricky business and ive had bunny boilers and simply incredible ladies that i thoroughly enjoyed every second with them.
For.me moving on meant deciding tbat im too good for EXW , i deserve better than who she has become and ive met ladies that do deserve me ( lol , poor them )
Again , dont beat yourself up but maybe learn that DBings favorite ' fake it until you make it ' is very true.
Just my thoughts Huddy , you are a nice guy and thats not helping you right now.
Take care mate
No kicking or I told you so from me. In fact I say stop being so hard on yourself.
However have you thought about what you will change about this dynamic?
Best wishes.
However have you thought about what you will change about this dynamic?
Excellent point. What are you going to do?
Hi All
As always, angry angels on my shoulders! Thanks for all the above - read in detail.
I'm at work at the minute, so I'll be quick for now.
I walked out of a conversation with her mid sentence yesterday. I'd just returned with my D from her judo club and W started to lay in to me about something and nothing. I simply scooped up the kids and left. I got the kids to say goodbye to her, but I didn't say a thing. I was fuming with her attitude.
So, what to do about the dynamic. Well, her credit points are all done. To a normal person, if somebody had cared for you and looked after you, you would want them to be by your side. For now, she's proved that isn't for her, so, I'm not for helping right now. I was half thinking about her appointment on MOnday, but I realise that it is just pure manipulation, so, I'll be off to the gym at that time. The only respect she has shown me is when she had her original follow up appointment on Tuesday, and was telling me how and when I could take the kids to school and how I could do thia and that for her, that I told her it wasn't going to happen like that and that she would have to change the appointment time. Of course, she had a hissy fit, but she did change the time.
Maybe I'm just not feeling that strong right now. It'll be two years in a months time and I'm a little down right now. Having the kids 24/7 has been great and I realise how much I miss them when they aren't here. I just want a nice family home again, but I do deserve to be treated a whole lot better.
Hopefully just Angels rather than angry Angels Huddy
So, I read the above as - she was rude to me, so I left in mid sentence - she tugged on your rope and you delivered right back..reactive rather than responsive - and the difference is really important.
I think Roist's question in spot on. Her approach may not change, but yours can...and a change in you could change the dynamic..
Now, you're looking for a monetary or practical lever to make her feel the consequences of being unpleasant...I won't top up her phone or take her to an appointment?
That's how I read this anyway...
I'm sorry you're feeling low - and of course it's understandable. These situations are by no means easy. But I think a big part of the problem is that your life is still largely about her and what she is doing, not doing, may be thinking, planning etc.
I don't see that you doing a great deal to change yourself or your life following her departure, and I do think that's the place to focus rather than on her. This is something that has been posted for a while, and you do seem a little stuck in this area. I wonder why that is and how we could help?
The thing is - what we focus on, grows - have a think about that in relation to your current situation.
Hi Sotto
No, I don't get that point about reactivity. She was being obnoxious, so I left. I don't have to listen to that, so, to me, that was a boundary being set. I didn't say anything.
I don't have any other levers, do I? If she wants something, I don't do it. Surely that's DB in practice?
I think my problem is that I don't see manipulation from reconnection. Take Saturday where she wanted me to come over. I saw that as an example of maybe trying to reconnect, but it was probably self pity and manipulation. So, why did she make an effort? Do see the struggle here? When, or how, can you differentiate between somebody reaching out, or, somebody pulling to see the reconnection?
In all of the turn around stories here there are two common points that answer you question about knowing it is a chance to reconnect:
1. The lbs stopped looking for the signs. Don't watch her. Assume she does not want to reconnect YET. That last word is critical. Don't rule reconnection from ever happening.The flip side of this is you need to not want to connect YET either. Fake that until it happens.
2. The WAS leaves no doubt about their turnabout. It is consistent and obvious. The LBS cannot miss it. So again no reason to worry about missing a sign.
Huddy, I remember when you first came here. You have changed, and grown. I get the feeling you are not attuned to your own expectations.I believe you have some and your frustration is mostly to do with unfulfilled expectations than inappropriate behaviour.
You are right to not tolerate someone miss talking to you. But your wordings suggest it is deeper than that. She has had you fuming a few times recently.I will rephrase that. You have let her annoy/anger you a few times recently. Angry fuming cannot occur if detached. I urge you to delve deep into your thinking and check if your expectations are in line with being separated. It is not easy to peel back the layers but it can help.
I understand the two year mark is a landmark and may be weighing more on you than it should. Again ask yourself why that is.
But my ibiggest question is the one I asked earlier, what are you going to do differently. This needs to be based on YOU and not revolve around W.
I hope that helps. I'll raise a whisky to you at the weekend
Best wishes
Hi mate
Roist has it spot on. Stop looking over your shoulder to see what she's doing. Just live your life.
I think my problem is that I don't see manipulation from reconnection. Take Saturday where she wanted me to come over. I saw that as an example of maybe trying to reconnect, but it was probably self pity and manipulation.
Why read so much into it? It could have been neither manipulation nor self pity and it clearly wasn't about re connection. You're still clinging onto that rope mate. We can all see it.
So, why did she make an effort? Do see the struggle here? When, or how, can you differentiate between somebody reaching out, or, somebody pulling to see the reconnection?
Perhaps just to feel better? Just because she want's to look and feel nice has nothing to do with you nor your impression of her. People just like to look nice. Nothing complicated in that.
The point is that there isn't a struggle to wrestle with here. If she wanted to re connect you would have zero doubt in your mind because she would most definitely let you know what she was thinking. While that doubt remains assume re connection is off the cards and apply the good advice you are getting here. Detach, drop the rope, get on with your life.
Peace
Hi Guys
As always reasoned, sound debate!
As a 'reader', I have read mountains of stuff on this. NDY - you have sent me some great links and videos, but I've also read on here and elsewhere. I just can't get when being in charge of my DB'ing begins to make me look like some kind of unlikeable hardass?
I've read that some MLC'ers look to see if it is safe before they try full reconnection, by pulling the rope in a different way. I don't see the best way of performing that trick. Sadly NDY, I do worry that I will miss a sign as W is incredibly stubborn and will be incredibly subtle.
Anyway, for now, I'm back to full NC (she called yesterday and I passed it to my D to answer and went to the bath with my S) and that's how I'll leave it for now.
Hi Huddy, I think the main issue here may be that you are seeing DBing purely as a strategy to save your marriage. Of course we all want/wanted to do that - it's why we came here after all. But it is also about saving yourself and holding on so tightly to your situation - looking for signs and jumping at the first sign of positivity aren't putting yourself first. And same for all of our - ultimately our spouse may want out or they may want back in.
So, when I talk about DBing, first and foremost I'm talking about what you are doing independently of your W - because building up your own life helps bring the detachment which is so central to DBing.
As to whether your W is looking to see if it is 'safe' or whatever...I think the answer here is not to make incidences important, but look for trends.
Take Irish's XW for example. If she contacts him a couple of times and says she misses what they had, that may not mean she wants to reconnect. But maybe she was feeling sad at that moment. Maybe she woke up the next day glad to be single and so on - because people tend to cycle.
And that's why it's so important to detach, because then we can take the ups and the downs and when the downs come, we have other stuff going on and we can leave our spouse too it, without falling out with them, being unpleasant or being a hardass.
I think your worry about 'missing' signs from her, may be a sign of fear - I'm not okay alone, not okay if this doesn't work out. Maybe this is something to think about. Let's also have a think about your needs here - she bailed on the marriage - but if she gave a subtle sign she wanted back in you would jump at that? For me, if someone has run in that way, they need to put in a lot of effort to try and turn things around.
Hope this helps anyway Huddy and have a lovely weekend
Hk Mate, i think Sotto , Ndy and Roist have all pjt it better than i can but i feel that its worth repeating. My big fear was EXW would want to come back but shes too stubborn. I tried NC but looked at my pbone often and missed hearing from her. I have not seen or spoken to her since xmas eve and limited texts but last sunday i got a text from her , saying she doesnt know how to fix this and ahe misses her family and home and has nothing in her life and shes sorry how ' this " had gone.
I read the text and continued with my day, i could have read this or that into the text but i have no idea of her thinking so why let it effect me.
Your asking that if your W sends subtle signs that shes reconsidering you might miss them. You wont and as an outsider reading your posts , your EXW is still deep in MLC. Consider that sbe may never recover to who she was but stays as she ow is , you deserve better. Im not saying give up hope but you need to accept that rigbt now and maybe for years to come shes not coming back. Move forward with your life , not in anyway other than whats best for Hiddy and hos kids REGARDLESS of how that effects EXW.
Again , these are my thoughts because , like many others , ive felt your pain , anger, exasperation, etc and i only truly found some peace when i let go and did things for me and mine and how that affected EXW is irrelevant.
Take care mate , this isnt easy and your kids are very lucky to have a dad like you.
Hi Sotto/rd
Firstly thanks for the extremely kind words about being a great dad etc. Well, sometimes they drive me mad, but I wouldn't change them for anything! They are my world right now. I would be lying to say I don't miss them when they're not here.
As always, more great reading material. You're probably (actually) right about detachment. I think I would have difficulty ignoring a text about feeling sad and missing me etc. I don't know how I could ignore that.
Yes, the exasperation of this sometimes gets me hideously annoyed, especially when she has no need to say anything nasty to me, but just picks something out of thin air - Wednesday being an example.
I have an opportunity to pull away again after this weekend. The kids go back on Sunday and we're back to the normal visiting routine. Due to my S's disability, he receives 'rewards' from a Government backed scheme which helps with things like clothing, bedding and holidays. In a bizarre twist, this is still allocated to W, but at my address, and their system won't recognise two addresses. Last years 'reward' was a holiday voucher and W used the voucher last summer to book a caravan in the first week of the April holidays. As anybody who has holidayed in a caravan will attest, April, warm weather and caravan don't normally go together in the UK?
My friend (best man actually) is coming up on the Friday before they leave on the Saturday and I have arranged a drink with RD on the Saturday (if that's still on bud?) that they return. If W asks I intend to just say that I have plans and leave it at that.
Still more to work on, but thanks as always in these trying times!
Hey dude. Nobody is calling you a 'hardass'. Far from it. From where I'm sitting I see it like this. When you walked off in a huff. You know what? That's what married couples do. Goodness knows how many times my ExW and I did just that. That IMO not detached. Like you I've read WAAAYYYYY to much on this subject which is a shame. We shouldn't have to be putting up with this but we are. From what I understand IF there is going to be a turnaround from her this usually only happens once the lbs has finally let go.
I understand how frustrated you must feel. And I get the 'stubbornness' and the worry that you might miss something. But that's the point. The fact that you do worry about it means you can't get to the part where you have fully let go.
This is a hard place to get to. And if I'm really honest I don't know if I'm fully there yet. But I'm heading in that general direction and it does get easier.
Things to think about.
Peace
Saturday night? Lol , i think you mean NDY ?
Hi RD/NDY
Yes, RD - Saturday comment was meant for NDY!
I probably have read too much, but research is in my DNA. You won't believe how much useless information I know
I agree that I am not detached, as such, yet. Maybe because there are so many things to keep us connected (kids etc.), but you know that as well as me. Still more work to do!
Go enjoy the rugby and beat England if ye can.
Hi Roist
I'm English (actually a Yorkshireman) bud
Of course one thing does go through my mind - have I been used for years? Was I simply just a way of helping my W bring up SD with finance and providing a home, with my S & D a happy coincidence? Sadly, it is a thought I'm having. I struggle with the coldness of it all. Just thinking out loud.
As for the useless info...it isn't useless if it makes you better down the line.
As for the kids and things that keep you connected...we all understand that. Most of us have young children with our MLC'ers. Some of us also have businesses with them, have church relationships together, and other volunteer obligations with them. Dropping the rope that binds you is the toughest thing you can do, but as roist has told me many times, that is the only thing that helps "you". You are the most important part of all of this. If you don't survive this mentally and physically, then you won't be any help to you kids down the line, nor for you W if she ever comes out of this fog. It all starts with you.
Stay strong my friend.
Friendly question for you and your useless info...I am in Texas and have typically been a beer & bourbon guy and occasional an Irish Whiskey drinker. What's a good starting point to Scotch? I haven't looked up you Glayvar yet, but I'm about to. Cheers to us all going thru this trial together.
Hi SBJ
I'm an Englishman (Yorkshireman) living under a flag of convenience (work)
Scotch is something for my bud NDY - he might be able to help you out on that one. Glayvar is a honey/almond based infused whisky style drink, originally from Edinburgh (Leith area). It's quite pricy, but well worth the effort. Probably appeal to you if you like marzipan or sweet tasting liquers.
Hi Huddy, just thinking about your posts from this week..
25yearsMLC once posted that it is helpful to think about how you would like your life to be if your spouse were truly gone (which they are for now.) And you had fully grieved for them, and were happily single and not thinking about dating someone else just yet...
How would you be spending your time? What would your home life be like? And work? What dreams would you be following? What kind of relationship would you have with your kids? How would you enjoy your leisure time? What would bring you real joy and a sense of peace? What would you be learning? How would you be looking after your health? Finances? And so on....
I have seen posters really think through this process and manage to put their spouse and relationship successfully on the back burner. You said in a previous post that there's more work to do on detachment....might something like the above help do you think?
Have a great weekend anyway
Hello peeps!
Haven't been on for a while, but have been reading other threads.
W picked up the kids after my two and a bit weeks with them. She was incredibly sore, but had managed to get herself in to some skinny jeans (not very sensible). I helped down the steps with the kids bags. The day before we'd been to a kids party and I noticed after I got in my flat she was busy texting somebody - who, don't know, but she texted soon after to tell me how tired she was etc. I just replied OK.
When she brought the kids over the past two times, she has brought SD with her and hasn't left the car. Guilt or soreness, I don't know. SD told me how her specialist had told her she wasn't healing properly and wouldn't if she didn't look after herself. I think SD wanted me to make some sort of gesture, but I just shrugged in a 'she made the choice to have surgery' kind of way.
As for me, I've been out and about a little bit more. I helped out at work one Saturday (I'm saving up to take the kids somewhere really nice in the summer hols - the overtime comes in nicely) and from that, I got a party invite for the Sunday. That was a bit of light relief.
Work is hectic, but have formed a friendship with a woman who I work with. She's younger than me, but has sought me out as she is also having relationship troubles. Nothing but friendship mind - I'm old enough to be her Dad!
Kids are coming this weekend and it's Mother's Day here in the UK, so we're off to Lush to get W a gift for that day, and a card. SD has bought her own, so that's fine. Treat time for the kids (McDonald's, Mr Pretzels, Toys!) and for me as we get to have a pizza night etc.
My best man is coming up next Friday for three nights, so we'll have a blast and the following week, me and NDY are hitting the town - watch out ladies
Two years up in a just over a week and I'm feeling a little more positive. Not giving up yet, but not lying down either!
Mothers Day has been and gone here in the UK. Took the kids to buy a gift from Lush (if you're not from the UK, it's a nice toiletries store that is mid-priced, but exceptional quality) card etc. We had treats at McD's and Hotel Chocolat (a very expensive chocolate shop) and some Mr Pretzels! Weather was nice for the time of year, so also treated the kids to some new bomber style jackets, pink for D and blue for S.
W picked up the kids and thanked me for the gifts. For the first time, she liked a post of mine on FB. She has two accounts, one in her married name, and one in her maiden name - she's using her maiden name one right now, so I don't respond (you might think it's childish, but I'm not going to support that nonsense, as this is part of MLC so that people she went to school with [35 years ago] can find her - not being funny, but if they missed you, they'd have found you).
I was thinking of the MLC timeline, in relation to a post from Wonka and J3B (RIP). I think I can summerise as follows:
Late 2013 - starts to say things about getting old
Xmas 2013 - starts wondering about old school friends
Jan 2014 - starts to lose weight (menopause starts)
Jun 2014 - starts to question my figure/looks
Oct 2014 - has teeth whitened
Dec 2014 - starts wishing we hadn't had kids so she could go to pub
Jan 2015 - turns 50
Feb 2015 - goes out and stays out one night to 0400hrs (very unusual)
Mar 2015 - keeps withdrawing from family life/depression
Apr 2015 - BD
The rest is on my litany of threads! So, I guess I'm about 4 years in to this, I just didn't know about the first 2!
W at the moment isn't spewing and is trying to smile at me (on todays' visit). However, no expectations and my mate comes up on Friday and the following week, fellow forum member NDY and me are hitting the town!
Have a great Sunday folks!
Hmmm....had better days.
Firstly, I received an eviction notice for my flat. The guy who owns it wants to sell it and so my lease isn't being renewed. I have to be out by the start of June. Bummer!
Secondly, my W called this evening to tell me her 'boob' job had burst and got infected. The doctor is calling her back to hospital on Wednesday to remove the implant and then treat the infection. She called to ask me to look after the kids. It's difficult to say no to that situation. I will look after my children, but I won't be looking after W.
We had a small convo about her op. She told me that she hadn't told her family and had only told one close friend (funnily, it's the same one that she got pally with just prior to me being given my variant of ILYBNILWY speech). I knew, but didn't let on (apart from to fellow forum members and my good bud NDY), so acted shocked that she'd had it done. She said she hadn't told me as she 'didn't tell you everything' - hmmm.....more lying me thinks and manipulation going on.
So, forum friends, how do I approach this? The doctor is planning to sew her up while she goes away with the kids next week. Do I try a 'times up - what do you think you're doing speech' or not? Surely it's time for her to come to her senses, right? I'm determined that I won't help her, as such, but I obviously have to look after my children. This is the difficult bit - how can I show detachment during this?
All in all, a bit of a ba$tard of a day
Alright mate, my tuppence worth.
Get the flat sorted. That's your priority IMO. You need somewhere to live.
So, forum friends, how do I approach this? The doctor is planning to sew her up while she goes away with the kids next week. Do I try a 'times up - what do you think you're doing speech' or not? Surely it's time for her to come to her senses, right? I'm determined that I won't help her, as such, but I obviously have to look after my children. This is the difficult bit - how can I show detachment during this?
This just shows you're clinging tightly onto that rope. She will run a mile. And what would you do if she said she had already made her decision and she's perfectly happy where she was? Can't you see that this is full of expectations? That to you this is just a temporary thing? I've said it before mate but I believe to you this is just a falling out. It's not. Time for ultimatums passed a long time ago. I mean 'Times up'? It's this type of thinking that lets her know you are still hanging on.
Surely it's time for her to come to her senses, right?
What makes you think that in her mind she hasn't already came to her senses two years ago and that this alternative life she's chosen is the best decision she's ever made (to her that is).
Too many expectations going on here. This is where you fail at detachment because you want to
appear detached to her. That's not how it works. You actually have to BE detached regardless if she pays attention or not. It's for you mate not her.
If there was a chance for you and her then she has to want to come back on her own. Ultimatums and throwing down gauntlets don't do that. You need to find another path for you.
Peace
Hi NDY
Yeah, kind of thought about this morning on the train to work - nonsense on my part! I realise that throwing around demands isn't the answer - she either has to realise that what she's throwing away is priceless, or I have to find someone who actually values my self worth.
As always, noted, and valuable advice
Looking for a flat Friday morning
she either has to realise that what she's throwing away is priceless,
Sometimes to learn to miss something we need to lose it. Let her go Huddy.If there is to be any hope at all for you you need to let her go her own way. Then one day she may just realise that yes, she is throwing somethin priceless away.
Peace
Hi Huddy , again this is just my pennies worth but i see your pain mate.
NDY is spot on, expectations are what are killing you. Its completely understandable BUT its the biggest thing that you need to let go of. Mabye she is regretting her choices but until she is 100% sure of whst she wants you could be back here after a reconciliation and by all accounts the second time is worse.
You giving ultimatums is a big no no. I was very impressed with NDYs admission thst he isnt 100 % over his WW because i would be very surprised if anyone on here really is. Maybe they have come to terms with their situation and have moved on but its very hard to get over ' it '.
Bad news re the flat but maybe the next will ne even better !!
Just to echo NDY again , move forward with your life , WW will do what she will.do , looking after your lovely kids is no 1 and then you. Be the best version of you possible and that will bring you the best future for you and yours.
Take care mate , RD
Words in any shape nor form will convince W to come back. Plus convincing her should not be the aim. The aim is she will want to come back. That is an internal process that she has to complete.
You can influence that but not directly:
# let her go. She cannot come back until you have let her go. Pretending or playing dim/dark won't work.
# there is still a void in your life. The trick is not to fill that void, but to expand all other aspects of your life so that void is imperceptible. IMO it is healthy to have a void there because a R with someone special is important. However dwelling on it will not help.
I wish you luck with this and with the flat hunting
The aim is she will want to come back. That is an internal process that she has to complete.
She cannot come back until you have let her go.
The trick is not to fill that void, but to expand all other aspects of your life so that void is imperceptible. IMO it is healthy to have a void there because a R with someone special is important. However dwelling on it will not help.
Roist is spot on in all of these. I think fear is what paralyzes us from doing what we need to do...I'm speaking from experience personally. Huddy, my fear is that if I do totally drop the rope, she might not return...I am now realizing that she might not return anyway. We are all hear lifting you up and we all need to keep each other accountable. We need to do what works, not what we think should work.
God bless you in your trials.
James 1:12 New International Version (NIV)
12 Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.
Hello Guys
As always, thanks for your invaluable input in to my sitch
Unfortunately, W has had to be rushed in to the hospital. The 'boob' has gone bang, and the infection needs to be treated today. I got a call from W at dinner time (that'll be lunch to those of you not from Yorkshire!) telling me this. W tried to make some arrangements for me to pick up the kids, but it was nonsense, so I told her, not in a smug or arrogant way, what was going to happen, and she accepted it.
My boss has been very understanding, but I can see that it is getting a bit waring, but my kids are number one priority. W met me with her car, SD and the kids. She was very sheepish and couldn't look me in the eye (guilt/embarrassment).
When she'd gone in to the hospital, SD got back in the car and told me some of what has been going off today. Firstly, W has now told her parents and my SIL that she has had a tummy tuck and boob job. She had lied to them and told them she had a hernia operation. Apparently, the shock was palpable, but W cut the convo short with them and is asking SD to do all the talking. I told SD that she shouldn't lie for her Mum as the truth has a funny way of coming out. W has also managed to get herself heavily in debt for the surgery, and is behind in her other bills.
Of course, I headed your advice guys, and didn't do any kind of speech. That was a non starter really, but hey, it was Monday night! What will be will be. SD also told me she was shocked that my best man is coming up at the weekend. Not quite sure why.
Right, kids to bath, me to bath and then to bed!
"she either has to realise that what she's throwing away is priceless, or I have to find someone who actually values my self worth"
I would just comment that your self worth is really determined by you Huddy. And what your W (or some future lucky lady) feel about you is up to them. How you feel about yourself (and your inherent worth) is what really matters here. And for all of us, it's so important to get ourselves to a place of self-acceptance and acceptance of our situation before we think about moving forward with a new relationship.
I think the advice above is spot on - an ultimatum just makes you look tied to the situation. And it's useful to ask yourself why you would want to do that at this point. The way I see it, she will or she won't - and we none of us know. So we all might as well live our lives as though 'she/he won't' and if 'they do' well there's nothing lost...because you have grown, learned, extended your comfort zone and lived life well in the meantime...
So I think the important question is not - what should I do in respect of her - it's what am I doing in respect of me?
Sorry to hear about the flat and hope you find a lovely new place soon.
Hi Sotto
As always, sage advice. I do like to use this forum to sometimes say what I'd like to do, rather than actually do it. Probably keeps me from insanity! Any ultimatum would have been pointless.
I have a flat viewing on Friday, two floors down!
Bring on the bands.........two years today for BD! Yeah, no need for celebration, but life goes on.
Felt OK today, doesn't seem like two years. So, managed to get the flat two floors down and move in just over a month. That's a problem out of the way for now. When I told W I was being moved out of the current flat, she went in to MLC control mode. W told me how convenient the flat is, how I should think about my commute, how I should think about........on and on and on. W also told me how she could help find me a flat. I declined. I was a bit naughty though, letting her think I was thinking of moving out of the area altogether. That also set the alarm bells ringing as well.
W had her implants removed. I didn't know that if one goes boom and gets infected, you have to remove both (a bit like replacing hydraulic rams in your car...ahem). W had booked a week in a caravan about 40 miles from me. She couldn't drive so I took her and the kids to it. Before everyone has a go at me for this, it's for my kids - why should they miss out. I have her car right now, and will be picking them up on Saturday.
My best man came up last weekend and we had a blast. Two very boozy nights on the lash! I now remember how much going out costs - my bank account is still screaming!
So, next up, a drink with my bud NDY tomorrow and......well, let's see. I'm not dead yet
Enjoy your pints with NDY.
Go read your posts from two years ago or even a year ago. Let me know what you make of the you back then and the you of today.
Best wishes
Just a quick stop to say hello!
Me and NDY went for a beer a few weeks ago. NDY doesn't post on his own sitch anymore, but I'm sure he'd be happy to let you know he's now D'd and OK.
My W shows no outward signs of turning or depression, despite her latest surgery failure. She has cancelled her trip to see her parents/family and, chatting it over with NDY, we concluded this was because of embarrassment on her part. W has a small tattoo on her right shoulder that I got her when we got together. Despite the fact she is now 52, it took her several years from when she got it (she was 34 at the time) for her to admit to her Father that she had it.
Her selfishness continues, but has been turned to my SD. Noticeable, however, that she then turns her decision on her head after about 24 hours, doing the total opposite of what she said she would do!
I have now booked a trip to see my friend in the summer. A nice long weekend, followed by a holiday with the kids about a month later. Also got something booked for August. In the back of my mind (stupidly), I always think about W when booking these things. I know she wouldn't do the same to me (experience), but that's how I'm wired!
At the moment, I'm having really vivid dreams about W and the kids. Sometimes this involves the kids, sometimes we're back together, sometimes we're not, and they're in bright technicolour. I'm also finding that I'm waking up remembering every detail, even down to patterns on the wallpaper! If anybody has done sleep analysis, let me know what this means (although I think I already know it's about my hopes and my brain figuring it out, without me becoming a wreck again!).
Kids with me this weekend. So far, we've been to a museum, had food, made cakes and watched 'Cars' again (D's fave film). Today we're off to the local town for some goodies and then W will collect them later.
Bye for now (unless you can analyse dreams - let me know!)
Hi Huddy, glad to hear you and NDY still meet up and you're making some nice plans for yourself. I understand about the dreams. I had those too at one point. I think it is just your brain working through it all and processing what has happened - healing hopefully
As for the hope aspect. It is good to catch yourself when you start wondering should I put X on hold or Y on hold in case...
Then we get on the track of analysing recent interactions and wondering what they are doing, how long before they might turn etc..
For me, I decided there were two things I wouldn't do because I chose to leave the door open a crack. I wouldn't file for divorce and I wouldn't date (until at least a year after D).
I have stuck to those two things and of course I am D'd and have been for almost a year
However, the important message is, if you choose to do those two things, do them. And in every other sense, move on and live your life as fully and joyfully as you are able.
I decided not to even worry or wonder - what if he changed his mind, turned etc. Because it wasn't happening at that point in time, so it didn't matter. If he did turn or change his mind, I would worry about that at that point only. Otherwise, worrying and focusing on something that may or may not happen detracted from living my own life as best I could.
Hope this helps anyway Huddy and enjoy your weekend!
Thanks Sotto.
As always, sage advice.
It is unusual that my W tells me more that I should know about her life. The property she is currently in was her second 'homeless' one after BD. The council has now told her that no other properties are available (she wanted a 4 bed and is in a 2) and W has now signed a tenancy agreement. This means she now has to pay full rent and council tax for that property. W told me all about this and that our furniture is coming out of storage this week.
I just said OK and nothing more. I haven't commented on her various operations either. This is, I think, the right way to play it, not judging or showing any sign that this is highly abnormal, but, as always, I do have that nag at the back of my mind that I should be doing something different. Of course, I then realise that doing anything would be pointless and I just carry on!
I guess what I'm saying Huddy is - it isn't about 'playing it right' and wondering 'should I be doing anything different.'
It's about just being you and living your life the way you want to live it. Having the kind of coparenting R you want to have with your ex and parenting the way you want to parent...
What she thinks or doesn't think about any of that is up to her and I would hate to see you watching and wondering how she may feel about things for years to come. It is freeing to release that and...just live...
Everything Sotto said. Everything.
hi Huddy, our BD day is the same, 4/6/15.
Well, two years on, I have to say there are differences for me. First year I was sad. This year I was angry.
I'm glad you're engaging in GAL activities and hanging with NDY. My friends have saved me through this process.
Sotto has given you pretty great advice. What are you going to do with your fabulous life, Huddy? It's yours to live regardless of who may or may not choose to share it. You deserve to live it with gusto and joy. xoxoxoxo think about what YOU want. The rest will fall into place. xoxoxo
Hi Sotto/NDY/bttrfly
Yes, I was saying I sometimes think about W when booking things. I then go and book it anyway, but it still seems like second nature
Bttrfly - yes, I noticed your BD date before. I do read a bit on here, but don't offer much in the way of advice (don't think I have a lot to offer). Yes, first year very sad. Second is rebuilding mode. Still think about W daily. You don't exist with somebody for all those years and then wipe them out overnight - unless you're in MLC
Arrrgh! Venting!
Today is my 'weekday' to have the kids. W texts me to say she's had a busy day, so won't be bringing the children over, as she feels it's unsettling to their day! What a cheek, typical MLC'er.
I got in to a text argument. I think my American friends call this 'Gaslighting'. I told her it was unacceptable. W then went on to tell me I should buy a car as she doesn't see why she should ferry the kids about to see me. I told I'd buy one and take it out of her maintenance.
Can you believe that this is the same woman, who just over a month ago I dropped everything for when her latest cosmetic surgery went wrong and I helped her by driving her to and from the hospital, re-arranging my entire week to accommodate this problem? I must need my head seeing to.
I'm annoyed that I let her get to me and I'm also annoyed that I helped her out. I've told her I won't be helping her out when she has her 'repair procedure' in June. I got a simple 'That's fine' in return.
What's the point? And before anybody says the DB'ing is to save yourself, I say no. I didn't come here to save myself, I came here to try and save my marriage. My best friend tells me I should 'be there' for her, but how can I when all I get is this constant stream of selfishness?
Dropping the rope and diconnecting ain't as easy as that after nearly 20 years, but I'm now beginning to feel like a doormat. Why do I still love this woman? Yeah, she's in crisis - cars, cosmetic surgery, possible EA or PA, clothes, money gushing out of her account, and as for her reaching the bottom - I can't see anything bringing that on. She doesn't miss me at all and is using my SD as a crutch to support everything she does - needs help with the kids, asks SD, needs help in the house, asks SD - on and on.
There is a quote on here from a poster called 'Stayed' from her husband. He said he felt like he was in a film. I feel like I'm in an Ealing comedy, with me playing the fool.
Angry, need to calm down.
Ah Huddy, you helped her out with the whole surgery debacle with expectations?
Sorry to sound harsh, but buddy, you got no to blame but yourself for that one. Either you help her because it's what's best for the kids, or because you want to expecting ZERO in return, or you don't help her out at all. You are making yourself the doormat.
You know she is selfish, so stop expecting something in return.
Hi Ginger
Sotto already gave me a 2x4 for the expectations thing.
I've run out of ideas and patience to be honest. Just want to sit down with my kids and eat a meal like we used to and relax. There is no benefit to anybody in any of this sitch.
Brutal and sad.
Hi Huddy, your feelings are yours mate. You didndidn'tm't get to see your kids and that would upset any of us.
You know about expectations and Sotto has explained it brilliantly. Having no expectations is much easier said than done.
Getting angry is fine but it's dealing with that anger is the important thing. Coming on here is a good start.
Can I ask if you really do still love this woman or do you love who she was or the idea of who you thought she was ?
I ask because after reading your posts I don't see why you would love this version of her. I think we all came here to save our marriage BUT you soon realise you have to save yourself first for any chance of a new R with your W.
Your on the MIC forum and this c@ap takes years for the Nicer to go through. You say W is far from reaching 4 the bottom and you may be right but you don't know how she's feeling. Maybe she didn't bring the kids over to exercise some control over you, maybe she's not feeling the best or maybe she's ........ You get my meaning. Bottom line today is your day with the kids and she has stopped this, what can you do to make sure this doesn't happen again ? Legal ? What's your options.
Again , you are dealing with an incredibly hard situation and your human.
Deal with this as calmly ( outwardly to W, until inwardly you actually are calm) as you can and get it resolved so this doesn't happen again. Next time W wants you to help her ( not the kids ) do what is right for you and don't let her view of it colour your actions. Your a good man and I'm.sure your moral compass when dealing with W will guide you well. Just remember she doesn't want to be your W anymore so she can't expect you to act like a H anymore.
Just my thoughts Huddy but in my case I give myself an hour or two to settle my feelings and thoughts before reacting.
Take care mate
Hi Rd
Good to hear from you. Hope you're OK. God, me, you, NDY seem to have been here decades. We'll be getting our long service awards from Job soon
Yes, I was upset at not seeing them. I haven't seen them in a week. Yes, I think it is control and by the text exchange, she clearly enjoyed having that over me. Yeah, I should have thought twice before the text exchange. I had a shite day at work and was really looking forward to hugs and kisses. Haven't been sleeping well again - five or six hours max and even though I'm exhausted, I have difficulty getting to sleep. My temper got the better of me. Legal is so expensive. Does it really solve anything? If she didn't comply, I go back to court, for what? More hurt to the kids, no thanks, I'm trying to protect them from this.
Saving myself? Well, I did try to do a date on a slightly non-conformist website (NDY knows what one - can't share on here). When it came to nailing the deal, I couldn't. Couldn't be bothered really and my confidence is still low. You do kind of think 'why would anybody want me?'. Bollox I know, but that's what this whole nonsense does to you.
W, as she is now, is somebody I wouldn't want to know. Real W is lurking somewhere inside that selfish, destructive mess. Teasing it back out is so difficult. Of course, real W might be a stranger to me, and might have been playing me all our M. I think if that was the case, we'd all be so 'destroyed' we probably couldn't cope, so that thought gets locked away.
I've calmed down now. Had a bath and now demolishing a tub of Flake ice cream! My moral compass is set to help anybody, if I can and they're not taking the pi$$. Here's something I'll share with you. I've been working extra at the moment to help pay for a nice holiday with the kids in the summer. Anyway, on my way home on Sunday, I felt something tell me to give a free meal voucher I had in my pocket to a homeless guy on the street. I'm not religious, but it was a bit weird, like a poke in the back telling me to do it. The guy was so overwhelmed that I'd given him this, I felt a bit embarrassed and kind of smiled and walked away. And there's the crux - my W wants me to help- I can only see how this can benefit the kids and myself, so I comply. My own fault.
Anyway, thanks for stopping by RD - if you fancy a Scot and a Yorkie stumbling over to Ireland for a beer, I'm sure we can arrange that
I'm sorry to read this Huddy, and I think the important thing to recognise is - things aren't going to go back to the way they used to be. These events bring permanent change to your family, you and your relationship - whether or not you guys ultimately reconcile.
I do think you are still locked in a dance with your W. She wants help, you help and you form a 'covert contract' (have you read about those?) with her. If I do X, maybe that will lead to Y (the outcome I hope for.)
Then, when events don't unfold as you hope, you become so frustrated and disappointed and then you and your W have a falling out. And it is partly your own management of yourself and your emotions (all of which is difficult I know) that causes the ongoing dynamic.
I'm not saying it was reasonable of your W to cancel that visit at the last moment - only that it's possible to deal with that without the downward 'texting' spiral that just happened.
And the unfortunate thing is, that exchange may have reinforced for her all the reasons she had for leaving.
I'm not suggesting you give up hope - unless that is what you wish to do. But I am suggesting you deal with the ongoing attachment you have, and the dancing you are doing. Because to live in that situation just causes misery...she does this and it 'causes' me to do that etc.
Remember this - she will do what she will do when she is ready. She may never do what you hope, or she may do but not yet. She may hit bottom - or may not - or may bump along bottom for a good while yet. All of that is up to her. And much of that doesn't really have much to do with you anyway. It's most likely more about unresolved issues she has and she will realise that (or not realise it) in her own time.
The problem with you remaining 'in the dance' is she can still look at you and 'blame' you for how she feels. However, if you are emotionally 'detached' from what she is doing - and non-reactive - you are less likely to be target for her negative projection.
Also, you have a fundamental realisation that you are responsible for your life, your happiness and your responses - independent of her and of what she may be doing..
I hope you will get to that place, because it is freeing and because there is much life to be lived outside of your current marital situation...
You may also want to have a look at the drama triangle and think about roles we 'fall' into. I remember finding that really helpful too.
Hi Huddy , I'm good mate , being dating and generally act ing like I'm 18 again , got a new Gsxr 1000 a few weeks ago so life is going well. I understand about the not worthy thing and I relate big time. But you are even if you don't always feel it.
The legal thing I understand too but how about a separation agreement where child care, etc is set out in black and white.
Along with this site , I found time a great healer but the best thing I ever did was no contact. My 4 kids live with me and EXW collects D12 at the gate. The other 3 won't see her so that does make it easier for me.
I respond to texts about the kids but nothing else. It takes time to get to terms with what's happened and I don't think you ever get completely over it but life does go on.
My humble view is the WAS or MLCer is still basically the same person but they changed. Maybe that's good for them or maybe not but they aren't who they were. Will they change back ? Who knows and do you want to see your life pass by while you wait.
Moving forward is all important on so many levels. You can stand but still move forward.
We all think our situations are unique, we loved them more than anyone loved anyone ever. Each of our stories have unique parts but basically they are the one tale in as far as it relates to us. It took me years to accept this and drop the rope.
You will get there Huddy and keep being the awesome dad those great kids of yours deserve.
Anytime yourself and NDY are ready for a 1/2 Guinness just let me know. I've been to the UK twice since Xmas but the other end of the country.
Take care mate and keep posting so wiser folk than me can advise you. Rd
Hi RD
Happy to share a drop of the black stuff anytime
Time for another blast off on here than losing my head with my W.
Firstly, moved in to my new flat this week. My SD came to help, but she's not strong, so I mostly did all the moving on my own. We had a pizza from Dominos to celebrate.
W brought over the kids on Friday, as normal. She told me the Doctor had told her to take S off his medication, as he had been attacking some of his teachers at school. He was in a foul mood, but I soon worked out that he had a sore throat. I gave him some medication and he calmed down. I followed her advice and didn't given his normal 'behavioural' medication on Saturday, but after three hours of crying, screaming etc. I gave it to him and he soon calmed down.
Today, I gave him his medicine from the get go, and he has been calmer, until W arrived. I have worked out, that when W arrives to take him away, he kicks off. It's S's birthday on Tuesday, so I bought him a new laptop, as he can use this to develop his co-ordination skills. W, of course, then claimed she was going to buy him one, and then told me she wouldn't be bringing the kids on a Tuesday anymore as 'they are disturbed'.
I got very annoyed at this, told her that I would have to resort to court action and then told her to get out of the flat. OK, she's pushed my buttons and I have reacted, but I'm losing the will here to be 'nice' anymore.
I just can't see any end to this. There is no signs of anything from her at all, and I think I might just give the whole thing up. What's the point. One thing for sure, there is no way I am taking her to her next appointment for her surgery in June - no way. The selfishness is unreal and she looks and acts like a complete stranger. However, she reacts badly if I look happy or go for drinks with a friend, or have quality time with the kids, and she hates the fact that when the kids are with me, they have so much fun, and miss me.
Dude. I know you've avoided this for as long as you can. Mate either get a lawyer or book into mediation. You need to sort out custody. No ifs, no buts. She won't listen to you and will only do what she wants and it won't be to your benefit. Ask her how the kids are getting upset. I have a friend in a similar situation but his kids are way younger. He's agreed not to have them during the week but won't agree to it being legal. Stand up guy with his kids interest at heart.
As for your S's medication? Nah, unless you hear it directly from the doctor then don't change anything. You can phone his Doctor from work and ask for clarification of how his meds are to be administered. Just a concerned father looking out for the best interest of his child.
I still think you're holding onto that rope. Perhaps that's something to think about.
Peace buddy.
Maybe it's time to get things properly negotiated and agreed in writing Huddy? She has played that card a couple of times now and I can imagine it must be upsetting...
Glad you made it into your new flat and hope you enjoy making it your own
Hi Huddy , sorry to read your still dealing with crap mate.
As NDY said , this needs to be sorted , mediation is a free way to get some cast iron agreement re the kids. W has the ability to still get to you and thats completely understandable but it needs to stop.
About W not showing any remorse or looking like changing her mind , she's not going to while the rope is attached because she knows that you would welcome her back or at the least , want her back. Her Plan B. I'm not saying she would reconsider if she didn't think you were plan B but it's not even a thought in her head right now.
I 100% agree with Ndy re your son , speak directly to the doctor and follow their instructions ( obviously with your input )
Can you be included in any visit your kids have to the D by way of eamil or letter ?
I have a cousin who went through a long separation and he went to a Guru type guy who basically told him to drop the rope , he did and worked hard to became the best person he could. I won't go into detail but the guru gave him.a whole new take on his thoughts and life.
My cousin is now mega successful and back with his W but he puts the reconciliation down to his dropping the rope and wanting nothing but the best for his W.
Give up mate, but just on the rope part, get on with livi g your life and enjoying it to the best of your ability. Good luck with the new flat and think hard about the mediation.
Take care Rd
Hi folks
I have a bad feeling. I don't think I've ever shown anybody the door before, but, I was angry and did it to W. It hurts me to have talked to her like that, but I just think she's taking the pi$$.
This is probably the third or fourth time she's tried this trick, normally after the kids have had a great time with me, or I've bought them something nice. Petty jealousy or something, I don't know. I've mentioned mediation before and got nowhere, so, I'm probably going to have to go down the legal route. Sad.
This rope dropping thing. I can never seem to get to that point. I think I have dropped the rope, only for you guys to say I haven't! Not sure what else to do. I won't be taking her to her operation - I'm just being used.
As for my S. My W makes appointments, then tells me after she's been. Yep, probably going to have to go legal on that one as well. My theory is about him missing me and not wanting to leave, or see us apart, and he's playing up accordingly.
Hi Mate , no criticism is intended 're drop the rope. I personally took years to really let go and even then I sometimes feel like it's there a bit.
Your sitch is tough , W comes to your home , you use her car , you get dragged into her life 're hospital etc. That's not making it any easier for you.
Just a suggestion but how about not letting her into your flat but she collects kids from the door or you bring my them to the car ? She's created an atmosphere now with the constant threats and in doing so given you a reason to calmly suggest that to avoid further upset or arguing , the child exchange be done outside of your flat.
're the mediation, how about yhou arrange it and then give her the time and date. If she refuses then you may have to go the expensive legal route but you will have shown you tried and that could stand to you in the future.
Just my thoughts mate. Your kids are just that , kids and they need to see you as calm as possible regardless of W and her moods. I know your a great dad and you've kept your cool where many of us wouldn't have so your to be admired for that.
Stay strong Huddy , Rd
Hi RD
Thanks for stopping by. Well, it's 0620 here in the UK and I've been awake since 0500. I didn't go to bed 'til 2245 and couldn't get to sleep for a while - guess showing her the door got my in'ards in a twist!
I have tried the meeting her at the door before, the last time she tried the 'I'm not bringing them trick' and that started a whole evening of text messages from her. Of course, that's all part of the game, because as soon as I started replying to her texts, telling her some of the things she was saying were good ideas (about S), she then stopped - she'd worked out that I was putty in her hands again.
Will look again in to mediation, and if that doesn't work, then I'll have to go legal.
As for my S. My W makes appointments, then tells me after she's been. Yep, probably going to have to go legal on that one as well. My theory is about him missing me and not wanting to leave, or see us apart, and he's playing up accordingly.
It took me a very long time to get my ExW to understand and adhere to my boundaries. A very long time. All you can do is state them, then quietly insist they are respected.
Stop the text marathons. Don't argue or fight. These are the things that lets her know you are still attached. Treat her like you would treat a work college. Polite and respectful but nothing more.
When it comes to your S and his appointments simply ask that next time you would like to know in advance so that if necessary you can make plans to attend. If you can't attend then you can follow up with a call. But only if you know in advance. Trust me after a few times of stating your boundary she will begin to understand.
Will look again in to mediation, and if that doesn't work, then I'll have to go legal.
You can go to mediation on your own. She doesn't need to be there in the beginning and if you do it'll at least end this horrid status quo you are in.
Peace.
Hey Huddy,
We all know what the definition of insanity is right? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting the same result. You really feel as if you might "nice" her in to softening up, changing her behavior and coming back. Yeah, I thought that too. I get it. My crazy self in the beginning cooked meals for my ex which he was probably just sharing with his OW!!!
Why did you move her into her flat?
I would most certainly legalize your arrangement. Legalizing it doesn't make it the end. But you need to protect yourself and your kids.
Hi Ginger
No, I moved flat, not my W! Not planning of doing anything for her in the future.
Huddy,
Please start a new thread and link this one to the new one. Since I'm locking this one, I'll link your new thread here for you.