http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2695028#Post2695028Link to old thread if I did it right! Heard this song today, by the grace of God, and it gave me chills. Perfect start to a new thread.
I am still reading my new book, How can I Forgive you, and I really like it. I am all about the holidays right now, I feel very upbeat and positive. I baked goodies today, shopping is done, I am ready! S is pretty excited too.
Things are staying smooth on the H front. I feel something, some kind of energy coming from him, not sure what it is. S told me he didn't get a Christmas tree for his place. Like I've said, it appears the excitement of his place has worn off. He isn't keeping it up like he used to.
I remain pulled back and quiet, but happy and positive.
Bttrfly, I can't get a post on your thread....I am thinking of you and sending big hugs and warm thoughts.
Merry Christmas Mleigh xoxo
Merry Christmas to you and your family. I'll be thinking of you today. I hope everything goes smoothly and all of you can enjoy yourselves.
Bttrfly, Irish, Job Merry Christmas to you and everyone else! I hope your day was peaceful and loving.
Well, the holiday went very well. I had been on a holiday high all week, so I was ready for good times.
Saturday S and I started with a visit to my mom. This was a first in years, I usually avoid her like the plague. Since our blowout this year, when I cut her out of my life, then us working on things, and mostly, finally getting her heartfelt apology for the way she has treated me, things have been better between us. The visit went well and I was glad we went.
Afterwards, S and I stopped off for a quick visit to one of my girlfriends, I was looking forward to seeing her kids home from college.
After, we met up with H at MIL. Big step for me!! I haven't been in 3 years. One SIL was there, so it was nice to see her. The other SIL is still MIA, but hopefully safe (has drug issues) Everyone voiced they were really happy to see me, it was strangely comfortable, not awkward.
S and I headed back home. H was going to meet us there later to stay the night. He showed up with his unwrapped gifts and wrapped them in the other room. His annual wrap on Christmas Eve event! He was done after S and I went to bed, he decided to sleep in S bed with him. Lol, I might bite, right!? Actually, Sleeping arrangements were never brought up, I figured just let it play out, didn't matter to me.
I woke up to H and S talking and went in to all snuggle together, then up for presents. H had them all displayed nicely, he even remembered to fill my stocking this time! (Last year he didn't, try explaining that one to S! We had to sneak candy in it) We made a big breakfast and hung out for the day. It was very comfortable and very normal. FIL came over later that evening and wrapped up the night. When H left to go home, S exclaimed, you're leaving?? So, it's back to reality.
H opened up to me about having to fire our friend he works with after the holidays. It surprised me that he did, since I had accused H of not treating him very well. I listened and validated, even asked him how he felt about that, then comforted his dread of the upcoming termination and loss of a friend.
I find the time spent together nice, you all know that, but it is confusing. I wonder to myself, how did we get here?? How can we enjoy each other so much, it's so obvious, yet be in this place?
I finished my book on forgiveness and am just letting it all sink in. I am just going to go with the flow, let the holidays play out, enjoy it for what it is, and do my best to not let it get too deep. I had a good cry release in the shower today, just grieving still for our loss, for all of us. But very grateful we are able to continue positive memories during such a difficult time.
Wishing you all a very Happy New Year. I am thinking of goals for myself and have some good ones in mind.
Xxoo
Mleigh, thanks for stopping by at my thread. Happy belated Christmas to you!
I’m glad to you had a peaceful time with you Mom! I'm also happy to read about your visit with your MIL and H's family. Sounds like it all went well! It seems like you had a great Christmas with your son and H, in spite of the sleeping arrangements and that your H had to leave at the end to go to his place...
I find the time spent together nice, you all know that, but it is confusing. I wonder to myself, how did we get here?? How can we enjoy each other so much, it's so obvious, yet be in this place?
This resonated with me so much! I could have written it myself... The two days in H's company... seemingly enjoying the conversations, etc... and going back to our own places at the end...
Mleigh, it is still difficult... even after all this time... I hope that the good memories will make up for any hurt and tears... I haven't cried yet... but, I'm still to process what the h#ll happened this past weekend. I'm wishing you a very happy New Year! Please share your goals! I'm always reading your posts, I think you have so much to offer and you have so much insight into things. Do I need to mention a tremendous patience you have... I'm sure there are some great things waiting for you in the New Year! Mleigh, you deserve it!
M
Thank you for the Christmas wish ... and I am very happy to see that you had a good holiday given all the circumstances that have culminated over the past few years.
Hope 2017 brings you all you deserve and more.
Hi M,
Glad you had a good Christmas. Now is the time to set your intentions and release that which no longer serves ... 2016 is a "9" year - end of a cycle. 2017 is a "1" year- beginning of a new cycle. Really important to let all go that we don't want to take into the new cycle. I think even if we can't forgive yet, the intention is what's important! Make any sense? xoxoxo
Hi MLeigh, I'm glad you guys had a nice time. As you say, it is confusing - but it is good that you can spend some quality time together - particularly for your S.
The main thing is that - whilst confused - you are also grounded and wise...xx
Have a happy new year my friend
Happy New Year everyone! I love the beginning of the new year, it always brings me a feeling of new beginnings and starting fresh. Part of that comes from putting all my Christmas stuff away and getting my home back in order!
I was able to take some time off here and there over the past 2 weeks while son was off school and that has been wonderful! We love our down time together, although we both tend to be quite the homebodies! I feel we needed the rest though, I am feeling recharged.
Bright, thank you for stopping by! Our H are still our friends, which makes the whole thing a bit tougher....but I think it's because of a special bond we have. My resolutions include anger management, my last blow up at H left me feeling emotionally drained, I want this venom out of me. I also want to direct more attention on me, with healing, by reading more, yoga, nature hikes. Additionally, I want to teach S that I am more than just mommy. I want him to see my other sides, a co-worker, a friend, and a woman with hobbies. This will mean dragging him out from time to time, but something tells me it's not good for me to spend all my time with him just doting on him. I want him to see there is more to me, and with him turning 10 soon, I think it's time.
Hey Cali, you are sounding good on your thread. I hope this year brings you good things.
Hi Bttrfly, funny you talk about releasing what no longer serves me. This continues to be my anger and resentments towards H. After Christmas, I started journaling my thoughts and feelings. It wasn't pretty at first, I listed all the things he did that hurt me so much, asking how he could be so cold?? It then turned into journaling the pain, the long term effects I continue to feel from it all. It helped to get it out, I am hoping it was a form of release, the pages will be burned in my fireplace soon. It all comes down to needing to see he is sorry for the pain he caused me. I need to hear it, in words. His actions seem to show it at times, but I need more. If that never comes, we will remain friends on a superficial level, for our son.
Hi Sotto, spending time together is definitely good for my son and it's nice to hear your support. I recall an attorney, a therapist and friends telling me it's no good. It's fake family time, not good for my son, but I beg to differ. We spend time together laughing, playing, with a genuine love and caring surrounding us. That's pretty real to me. I see a different side of my son when H is here....he interacts more, he wrestles and plays, his goofy side comes out more, and he seems so happy. It's hard for me sometimes, but something I can deal with for S. I know he doesn't see H and I being affectionate, but I believe he does see a deeper love that is there, a result of 17 years in each other's lives, and a shared bond with him.
It's weird for me, the anger and resentments I only feel when H is not around. When together, it washes away, unless a trigger comes up, but overall you would never know those dormant feelings were there.
I planned a nice mellow New Years for S and I. Plans to make a yummy dinner and just hang out. I wanted to invite H, but couldn't bring myself to. If he answered saying he had plans, I would have felt weird, so I figured I would wait to hear from him. Friday night, he texted asking if he could spend New Years Eve with S and I. So he came over, brought dessert, and we had a wonderful dinner. We watched the New Years shows together and just talked and joked around. Son decided to go to bed at 11:00 and wanted us all to lay with him, so we all, dog included, piled into S full size bed and immediately fell asleep! I eventually went to bed, but I woke up to H and dog still there with S in the morning. H complained of a horrible sleep. Unless you want to be smacked in the face by S while he sleeps, he is not a good bed mate. I told H, you should just go into the big bed (mine) next time. He agreed.
We all got up and had breakfast. S winter break is coming up in February and I want to take us to the snow to Lake Tahoe, with dog in a pet friendly vacation home. H wants to come so we started looking at vacation rentals. We hung out for half the day, then H went home.
We are supposed to go on a hike all together today. I also joined a meet up group for the state park I enjoy, so I can go on group hikes and meet some new people.
Overall, I had a very nice holiday and am looking forward to a new year. I am excited to continue the work on me, and to see where it takes me.
Wishing you all the best in the new year. Xxoo
Hey mleigh4. Happy New Year to you!
I don't think I have posted on your thread before but I felt compelled to after reading about your relationship with your H. My H also spent time with us over Christmas and New Year as a family and I know a lot of people would say it was cake eating on his part however it really made our Christmas to spend it all together. Although he slept in our spare room he came in to my room on Christmas morning so D could open her stocking presents on the bed as she had always done.
Christmas Eve was the first time that H had stayed over since he left in May and this was a real breakthrough. Although we spent NY Eve apart he took us out to lunch on NY day and then stayed over that evening too. My H has also agreed that staying over more often may help towards rebuilding our relationship. Just taking baby steps at the moment.
I hear you on the anger and resentment when H is not around, it's exactly the same for me. When I'm not with him I spin badly and just before Christmas and NY we argued a bit over text but when he came over you would never have known!
I've told him that my goal for next year is for us to be back together at Christmas because we spent so much of it together anyway!
Hi Coly, thank you for stopping by and posting.
Many times over the years I have been told to handle things differently, to not allow H to cake eat. And I do understand why, they need to suffer the consequences of their choices, I totally get it. I have tried many times to cut the ties and never seem able to completely do that. Through trial and error, I have pulled back enough to where H spends most of his time without us, and I rarely initiate texting, but if he reaches out to join us, or to talk with me, I do it. I feel I have found a balance of him having to live his choices and us all still being able to remain a family of sorts.
I truly believe when H is alone, he is very alone. I sense him missing many things about us, and that to me is important.
You will need to do what works for you, and every sitch on here is different. If it feels right, and you are able to forego expectations, you should be ok. Bottom line, go with your gut.
On another note, I forgot to mention some changes I see in the ever evolving H.
The good: he seems a bit more open and honest about random things. He gets physically close to me often, even sitting next to me with arms or legs touching. It's a far cry from the repulsion I used to receive. He is very thankful when we spend time together and always leaves with a hug. He is complimenting me more.
The bad: he still shows a lot of bitterness. Lots of talk about the government, the state of California and the country as a whole. He feels they all want to control everything we do. He is almost a bit racist sounding at times and critical of others. He said he joined the NRA to join in the fight over gun control. He insists it's not the guns, it's the people. Well duh, this is why S and I are uncomfortable around strangers with guns in their hands. Now, H has never been very political, so this stuff is new. He went on a few rants, but I just stay quiet. At one point I suggested for him to move somewhere else? With a smile of course
Yesterday he wanted to take us to the firing range, again with this! S and I both declined nicely. He said fine, never mind since we are scared of guns, he would call his dad to go because he has been wanting to. Brilliant idea!! Go with someone who wants to instead of pushing us! I just told him good idea.
M
I think the balance you have formed with him over the years is about as good as anyone in this thing can get, you handle it all with style and grace without allowing him to get you spinning out of balance. You are definitely a rock and a great example of how to deal with this crazy.
Cripes, M ... sounds like my wasband...
I think you do a fine job. I don't feel like he's cake eating. You're living your life and keeping the door ajar. You also have a young boy who needs his dad.
xoxoxoxo
Hi there friends,
I think of you all so often. I don't have a whole lot to update.
The weather has been crazy for us spoiled Californians! We have finally had a true winter here. Power outages, flooding and downed trees. I luckily live on a hill, so no flooding for me, but my garbage cans got washed down the street! I actually reported them stolen until I figured out what happened! Lol
Then this morning we had an earthquake. It woke me up and was loud, so I popped out of bed and running down the hall to S yelling don't worry, I'm right here! Ran in his room and he was sound asleep! Lol we had a good laugh about that one.
H lives right beneath one of the dams that is overflowing. It has already been in need of retrofitting for years, so it's a bit nerve wracking for me when S stays there, but I just have to believe the worst won't happen. So far the flooding from it has gone downstream from his home.
S 10th birthday is coming up this weekend. I have a fun party planned OUTSIDE of home, which I am so grateful S wanted. The last couple of home parties wore me out! He continues to thrive and do well in school, my baby is showing signs of growing up, and I am graciously stepping back when he wants, and open arms when he wants. I am so proud of my kid and just love him so much it's overwhelming at times.
The 3 of us went on our snow trip this week that we had planned over the holidays. We rented a beautiful home on Lake Tahoe, we loved it! It was quite the adventure as we went during one of our crazy storms. We had a few things planned, but because of the weather, pretty much just relaxed! I never have a problem with that, but we did play in the snow too. So much snow!!!
During the trip, H was social, getting very close to me many times, even slept with S and I, all 3 of us in 1 bed. Those are always nice times, but there is no spark or affection. One little tantrum he had....when we got there, he walked into the huge master bedroom with his things and said he wanted that room. S and I both laughed out no way, we call that room. He got a little huffy and took his things to another room. I told him we were joking, it's plenty big for all of us, but he continued to keep his things in another room and used a different bathroom. He did come in to sleep with us each night.
The trip was a little of an eye opener for me. He seems so immature to me....or maybe I have just grown? He broke into the homeowners locked cabinets, by figuring out their code on their locks. He was so proud, but I was a bit appalled? He just had to know what they had locked up.
During an almost blizzard, I tend to be a bit skittish, I expressed concern that we have no flashlights. He said don't worry, I have one in my truck. I said, oh, maybe we should bring it in so we have it handy. He again said, he can find it in the dark. I finally said, H, you know me pretty well, and you know what a relief it would be for me to have that flashlight right here where I can grab it, so why wouldn't you just want to do something nice to make someone feel better? He made a big production of turning off all the lights in the house, used his cell phone as a flashlight, and brought me the flashlight, he just had to prove his point. We both did all this in a joking manner, and S laughed through it all too, but sometimes he just drives me crazy.
He messed with his phone the majority of the time driving, which I politely asked him to stop doing several times, at one point driving myself so he could play with his dumb phone. Is that really smart during rain and snow?
One last eye opener to mention during this trip. I have a subscription to Hulu, so we used his computer to log in and watch some shows and told him he is welcome to use it anytime. He exclaimed, I should get Netflix, then we can share! I said good idea....then a very loud voice in my head said...What are you doing!!?? I keep hearing this voice now, over and over. What AM I doing?
I don't see H and I getting back together. It's pretty clear this man has not grown up, continues to live his life around himself, and who knows if that will ever change? I didn't want this, there was a time I was willing to do ANYTHING to work this out. Even though we have our differences, I was willing to accept him for him and find ways to work around those differences. But now? Why would I do that for someone who left me and continues to live his life on his own selfish terms? He has let me free and I am letting go more and more each day. My progress to let go has been just about as slow as a MLC'ER! But I have done my best and I think my pace works best for me. At this point I would be settling with H, selling myself short. All my life I have fallen for boys, failed R after another. My next R will be with a man. And no less.
I don't hope to hear from H, I don't hope to see H, I am feeling a bit over it all! I am not saying he is terrible, he shows thoughtfulness at times, like telling me not to fret about the expensive trip, he paid 1/2. He bought us food, took us to the jelly belly factory tour, offers dinner out, even continues to invite me to the shooting range....it's just....I don't know. Spending time with someone as a friend, who you were married to, shared life and death with, shared intimacy with, and who now treats you like any other person....it's just getting old for me. It's a constant reminder that we are no longer together. It's become quite the buzzkill.
On another note, my cousin who lives in town seems to be going through his own MLC. It's textbook really. He is 48. He has come to the decision with my aunt to sell their small business, which she has wanted to do forever but he wasn't ready. He is going to rent out his home and move to Mexico with his partner to enjoy a much cheaper life with the rent money he earns here in the expensive bay area. He is growing out his hair, which he has shaved for over 10 years. He is like a different person but in a good way. He says it's like everything has become clear and he is ready to enjoy life and be happy. He is constantly checking in with me and letting me know how much he cares about me. We had a nice dinner the other night where he got so emotional he welled up in the restaurant and after, told me I am truly one of his best friends. He used to be negative, bitter and angry....I don't know who this guy is but I am fascinated by the changes. He says there is so much stuff swirling around in his head that he is overwhelmed and can't sleep, that he has this overwhelming need for change. I am just being a good listener and a good friend to him, we shall see how his spin turns out.
So anyway, overall I am doing very well. I have really come to like myself again and like my life. I keep busy and continue to show the people I love that I am here for them. My fur babies are well and their love fills me up. I continue to laugh at myself often, I can be a bit quirky, and tend to make others laugh as well. I love people, I love life and I look forward to living it each day. I exercise, eat well and look and feel great. H is becoming just another life lesson, but I have learned so much from it!
Wishing you all well and I hope each passing day brings you some peace.
M
I am so happy to hear an update from you M.
I agree with the B-day party ... away from home is the way to go, no mess ... once its over you just pack up the gifts and go!!
As far as your MLCr, seems there is no change.... I read a similar story was actually the W who reminded me of your H, very slow to wake and come out of the fog but was not the 'monster/cheating' type either. I think you are handling this just perfectly if there is such a thing and I do hope you continue on the way you have. You are absolutely an inspiration.
Hi Cali, great to hear from you! Your S is turning 10 himself, right? Such a funny age. Growing up but still young.
Thank you so much for your compliment, I don't feel like much of an inspiration. In fact, I feel a bit of an idiot sometimes. But, I wouldn't change my pace or way of doing things, not until I am ready. Baby steps.
The one and only thing that continues to spin in my head, is, what is his motive? Why wanting to spend time with me? Is it JUST about S? Is it his selfishness for a family fix? Or is it, like my instincts say, the "let's see if this turns into anything" zone? Not sure but trying really hard to just keep moving forward as I am. Don't be surprised if I finally voice those questions to H.
This weekend a few things really stood out to me that it was time to change. I closed the joint credit card, closed the joint checking account, and changed the last couple of bills into my name. Felt great!
Next, changing the Beni to my son instead of H on my stock accounts. I have hesitated on those for three years, then all of a sudden, poof, I am ready. Funny how that happens.
Cali, I hope all is well with you and Happy Birthday to your sweet S
Just reread my post and I sound like a meanie so let me clarify, the accounts I closed have not been used by H since BD. He told me to close them then, but I left them open in hopes we would use them again. I closed them for ME. I'm tired of seeing his name on everything.
Hi mleigh,
I don't think you sounded like a meanie at all. Just someone who is making changes for you and your life. I am working on those few bits and bobs as well, just like you.
You don't sound like a meanie at all. What you are doing about the accounts is the responsible thing to do, as well as changing the one account and putting your son's name on it. After all, you don't know what your h will or will not do. You've been living the life of a single person for quite some time and it's been time to change things over to your name.
As for your h, who knows why he wants to spend time w/you. It could be any number of reasons, but I wouldn't think twice about it. If the contact doesn't bother you then, continue...but if you find that his presence is starting to annoy you, then limit the contact.
BTW, he's not moved one inch for quite some time. He's quite comfortable where he's at and most likely won't budge unless something changes in his life.
I also agree that it's very wise to have your son's party outside the home. Less headaches all the way around.
Hi MLeigh, good to read an update from you and pleased to hear how well you are doing. Really, I expected no less as you have always been grounded, graceful and compassionate...
I think it is good that you have managed to spend this kind of time together and also it's nice for your S. It sounds as though your H is rumbling along very much in the same groove and yes as Job says I wonder what will change that? Not that I'm suggesting you do something different - that's up to you of course.
It sounds as though you are happy enough in yourself for now - and I guess at some point you may think about next steps - but all in good time and who knows how things may unfold.
Xx
Hi Altair, Job, Sotto. I have a lot of issues dealing with guilt on how I treat people. It stems with my dysfunctional relationship with my mom. Unfortunately, I tend to be taken advantage of because of it, which may be why I struggle to pull away from H. I say I will over and over again, and here I am.
H is very comfortable, and I am aware I am part of that. Although, I am pretty comfortable too. We are both using each other in a sense. The sad reality for me is, I yearn to hear him say he wants to come home, that he messed up and is sorry. But I swear I do not want him living back in this house. What kind of crazy is that? I try and try to figure it out.
I don't remember the last time he asked me anything about myself. It's all about him. The latest drama being about our mutual friend he works with being fired. He is on a rant, angry as spit at H, even calling customers and badmouthing H. H just texted saying that friend is "making up stories", telling people H recently got divorced and it's messing with his job. Lovely. I hope this guy doesn't call me. He is who H was real close with at BD and I almost feel like H is building up his case before I might hear anything....
H apologized for venting to me tonight on text but said there is no one else who knows the true story. I want to say it's not right to come to me to vent all the time. I want to just not reply! But I just don't have the heart you guys. I simply replied, "yes, someone else from your company also told me we were divorced. (True) He is mad, it will pass, just let it go"
Short and sweet. So yes, my good friend works at same company as H. I met up with her and another co-worker one night for dinner and co worker heard H and I were divorced, not separated. I corrected her and changed the subject real quick. No H talk.
So anyway, I will work on my soft back bone here. I do hear what you guys are saying. A lot of this contact has been for S, but he is getting older now, and he has adapted so well to everything, so I will keep that in mind and work on me. My feelings need to start coming before H feelings.
So I took a step in being open and honest tonight. H is in a spin about a mystery co-worker addressing me as his ex wife. He started to get a little testy about it, like this person is watching him and reporting to me. He assured me that he has never referred to me as his ex wife and in fact told his boss about his trip to Tahoe with his son and wife.
I corrected him by telling him the story about the co worker. He then complained about working with a bunch of guys who act like teenage girls. I pointed out to him that it doesn't surprise me that co workers would think that being that it was his work buddies he was spending all those nights out with, right? (At least that is what he told me) May be bad DB'ing to bring up the past but for Pete's sake, he needs to own up to his own behavior!
So he said fine, he will not bother me with this and just keep things business since that is what I want.
I replied, "all I have ever wanted was an apology. Not for your feelings, those are always valid, just an honest apology for the way you handled those feelings. I hope someday you can because that's how I heal and our friendship would be much better. I very much want to be there for you during difficult times like this. It's hard for me not to, but it's really not fair to me. I do hope this all blows over for you."
I figure it's a start.
I think you handled your talk w/your h very well. He's very sensitive about how your situation appears to others and he's paranoid. Typical of the MLCer.
Sounds like he's not happy working w/the bunch of guys. His comment about them acting like teenage girls, make me think that this is the way his friends acted when he was growing up. Growing up must have been really tough for him.
I am hoping and praying that what you said will give him something to think about. Sometimes we have to be honest w/them. Sometimes what we say to them hurts their pride, but some of them actually do hear what we are saying and mull it over and come to realize that what we have said is true. Others, listen and then ignore our comments. Time will tell if your h actually "heard" what you said.
Hugs to you, your son and your fur babies.
Hi Job, I am glad to hear you think I handled H well. I also think you are right about his growing up years being tough. He had a police officer dad who wasn't home much, two older sisters who I hear were a real handful, and friends that he did drugs with and who all haven't gone very far, some still at home! I am proud of H, with his accomplishments, but his emotions are a mess.
It seems he did listen and opened up an R talk, to my surprise. It was very long so I will keep it short.
He said he IS sorry but knows he needs to say it when I am not asking for it. He explained how hard this has been for all of us and continues to cause a lot of stress and sleepless nights for him. He described his emotions as sad, scared, confused, angry, upset, regretful, hopeful and hurt all mixed up together most of the time over this. He said he doesn't know the answer or how to fix this. He said it would be easy to say we should live together again, or we should just end the marriage and move on, but how would we know if either was a mistake? He apologized again for handling certain things the way he did, nothing was done on purpose to hurt me, that he is far from perfect. He pointed out he is not to blame for all of this, we both played our parts in it. He said despite our differences in opinion on parenting, he thinks I am a great mother and S is lucky to have me. Again, he was sorry, he just couldn't keep feeling the way he did. He understands I am angry and hopes this didn't make me angrier.
I thanked him for opening up. I told him his described emotions are spot on to mine, but because we never talk about anything, they will lead us to failure. I told him we don't need to figure this out alone, that we can do it together. I said nothing is magically going to just happen, that unless lessons have been learned and changes have been made, nothing would be different, and that is my biggest fear, which I pointed out may be his too. I said our bond and connection is deep through our son, but without a deeper connection of being open and honest, and being able to talk to each other, I don't see how it could ever work. I told him his silence has hurt as much as everything else has and the pain from this hasn't stopped. I asked him to just be real with me. I said there is the option to divorce, I don't see living together as a smart option, I had suggested dating but that never happened. I told him there was a time I would have done anything to keep my family together, I just feel I have tried everything and don't know what to do anymore except to just live my life. I said I am not angry, I just don't know what you want from me?
I asked him to do me a big favor when he had a few minutes of quiet time. I do this exercise often and think it would be good for all of us trying to decide which path to take.
I asked him to think about 2 different scenarios. With each one, he needs to really feel it and be in the moment.
Scenario 1..... We are on a cruise ship, a new big one with all the bells and whistles. We are walking through, dressed and ready to go have a nice dinner followed by a comedy show. We are planning our next day in port, time on the beach followed by exploring a new island. Just be there and feel that for a few minutes.
Scenario 2..... picture a commercial building We are in a conference room, just me, you and a man in a suit. We are sitting across from each other at a big table with papers all around. We are splitting up assets, deciding who gets what, and finalizing the terms for S. We both have pens and are getting ready to sign the petition for divorce. We know when we leave, everything will be different. New lives, not spending time together, New partners, a new start ahead. Feel that and be there for a few minutes.
I said, now, think deep. Which one feels right for you? Not which one you wish could happen or hope for. Which one brings a feeling of peace and content? One should feel more right than the other, that is the direction you should move towards.
Soooooooooo we will see if any of that sinks in or just flies off with the wind. Funny thing though, if he does try my exercise, he may not feel anything towards either, which is exactly where we are at and have been for 3 years! Lol! so they may be a waste of time for him. But for me, that is the trick to helping me realize, I am not ready to be the one to put us at that table. I can be there and am ready to deal with it, but I am not ready to initiate it.
I am off work today. Since the market has slowed down a bit, normal for this time of year, instead of lay offs, my company offered a voluntary unpaid day off each pay period. I am not thrilled about it but I can make it work. Me and my office agreed we would rather do this than see any of us let go. So I have some free time on my hands! S is excited for me to pick him up after school, going to make it a nice day.
Thanks for listening and being a part of my journey. I will update if anything further happens.
M
Mleigh - it's so nice to hear an update as I think of you often. You sound like you're doing so well!
I would be curious to know why exactly it bothered your h so much that these people thought you two were divorced. And if I were you, I might even ask him in a casual sort of way to better understand his line of thinking. Maybe in a "hey, how come that bothered you so much?" sort of way.
In all honesty, he does live like a divorced guy. And so does my h who lives in the SAME house as me. And obviously during hardcore replay days they lived like they'd never even been married. If any of those people saw that behavior, well, of course they would assume he was divorced.
I certainly am not condoning people gossiping. But is that what bothered him most about all this? Does he not realize that for the most part he DOES live like a divorcee?
Anyway, it's great to hear from you. I wish you continued strength and happiness.
You know HW, I am glad you ask that question because it has been eating at me. First of all, he refers to me as his wife with his boss??? Does he forget he hasn't treated me like a wife since he fired me over 3 years ago, who is he kidding? And the term he used...."We could walk away from the marriage". Again, he did that over 3 years ago! It's like he really doesn't realize the scope of what he has done and what's happening.
And yes, I will take part of the blame for that because I have been WAY too available.
HW, I did end up reaching out to H with some questions and wanted to share his responses.
I asked him why it bothers him that people are saying we are divorced. His answer: He wasn't making a point of it bothering him that people say that, he didn't even know they were, he was just giving an example of the strange things ex friend was running around saying about him. He also wanted to make sure I know he has never referred to me as his ex wife to anyone, because I'm NOT. Whether I care or want to think of myself as his ex wife is my choice.
He pointed out that he does not have the answers on what to do, but I am the one who is saying that living together would not be a smart choice, and I brought up the option to divorce, SO, he asked, what do you want from me?
Ahhh, you gotta love his expertise at turning it back to me. He IS very good at that! From what I read from that, he is bothered by how he looks to others, doesn't want to be the bad guy, it will be my choice to end the marriage, at least he will make sure that is his story.
So I answered like an adult and said I want a resolution to this, I want us to decide what we are going to do.
S birthday was the next day, H had him in the morning, dropped him off at school, I had him in the evening. H texted saying it seems I don't want to do things together anymore, but he really would like to see S that evening.
I replied that I would never keep him from seeing his son on his birthday. I said our conversations have not been clear so I will try again. My emotions have all kind of come out of nowhere, so I decided to let him know this was coming from spending time on our last vacation, and the mixed feelings it brought up in me. I couldn't help but wonder what I was doing, what we were doing, and what it meant. I told him I also wondered if it was really good for us to be doing that without knowing those answers. I said we have both fallen into this comfort zone of family sometimes, single the rest, that I have been happy with it, life is good, but I just have a chitty marriage. But I am starting to feel the example for S may not be good and at this point it feels we are just wasting our time. I gave him what I think our options are.....commit to some meetups so we can talk face to face about the issues and see where that takes us. Or, we can live our lives separately until one of us can pull that trigger.
He said he wants to have some talks and we would start scheduling those. He came over for S birthday and helped with cooking and making cupcakes. He offered to help in anyway for S party the next day, even picking up kids for me if I needed. We chatted about different things from during this week and had a pleasant evening.
Hopefully the talks will start happening, in the meantime, I am trying to be strong and assertive with myself, no more buddy buddy hang out friends time! I pulled out my passive aggressive book to re-read, because he is a poster child for that.
Looking forward to S party tonight! Then I have a hike planned with a friend in the morning. Some fresh air will do me good, it's been an emotional week.
Hope you all have a nice weekend, take care.
M
Happy Birthday to your son! I hope everything goes well this evening.
Thank you Job, S had a great birthday party!
Hi there,
So just a brief update since H and I last "talked" S had a great birthday party. He ran around and had a blast with his buddies. You know it's good when they are all sweaty at the end! Lol. FIL and MIL showed up too. The entire time, H and FIL were glued to their cell phones. MIL and I played with the boys. We even had races down the giant slides! It was a good time, but I do admit, H withdrawal from the special day annoyed the h#ll out of me. It was a 2 hour party! He couldn't give S that?
Afterwards, S, his BFF and H came back to my place to open presents. H again went to phone, to look up how to use one of the gifts, while S was still opening more presents. I said straight up, H, you are missing the moment. He said, I am fully aware of what's happening around me. I said you are aware, but not a part of it.....He put phone away.
Since the party, we have been NC except for anything S related. I no longer see H as an R prospect in my life. I feel no attraction, although I still think he is very handsome, but no one I would even consider dating. I just feel empty.
Which brings me to deciding I am ready to dip my toe in the dating pool. Yep. This last weekend I did the spring passport weekend with friends, which is 2 days of wine tasting, food and music at all the local wineries. We hit 9 wineries in 2 days! It was a blast. Several men showed interest in me,including one little hottie who was only 29 years old! Everyone says I don't look my age but come on!
Anyway, I would love to have some good conversation with someone. I went on to an online dating source and put in some info. I got spooked, and am not public, but I am getting matches sent to me each day. There have been a few I would love to reach out to, talk to, and see what happens. I am TERRIFIED at the thought of going on a date, but I think if someone feels comfortable, I could give it a go. I will go public in 2 weeks, after H goes on his business trip without talking about our sitch, which I know will happen. If you remember, he promised to talk before, when work drama settles down. Let's be real, not gonna happen.
So I have a question for you guys. A few of my friends think I should let H know so he doesn't possibly hear from someone else. Short and sweet, something like H, I have always hoped we could work this out, but it's not going anywhere, so out of respect, I am letting you know I am going to start dating.....
IDK, part of me agrees, and part of me doesn't want to share my private life with him......
Any thoughts on that?
Hi M,
Aw Sweetie I really wish you guys were in a different place! I'm such a romantic that I hope every single person here gets their spouse back and a stronger relationship post MLC but that's sadly not reality for most of us.
So darling you're ready to move forward. I think there would be something wrong if you weren't terrified. I have to ask these questions because I want you to be ruthless in your answers so you will have no regrets moving forward: are you saying this from a place of despair because you think nothing will ever change with H? Why do you think you do not want him to know about your private life? Is it being protective or something else?
The lack of attraction and empty feeling are why I'm asking these questions.
M darling you've done such a super job of standing. You have been a rock through this entire mess called MLC. I'm so proud of you! You've always inspired me throughout my journey here.
I think if you are ready to date, yes, you should say something to H to give him a head's up. Think how hurtful it would be for him to find out another way and also remember that you will be co-parenting with this man for some years to come, so anything that keeps your relationship cordial gets my vote.
I guess the final question is this: if H was planning to start dating, would you want him to give you a head's up? How would you want him to treat you in this situation if the roles were reversed?
You always epitomize kindness in your dealings with him. Keep doing that doll!
xoxoxoxoxoxo
Hi M,
You sound in a good place and hey why not try the dating scene, its all trial and error, you may find someone you really get along with or you may find you are not quite ready for it, I feel go in with an open mind and remember you are in control at all times.
As for your question - I differ from bttrfly (sorry bttrfly honey, no offence intended), your h gave up the right to know what you are doing when he walked out and set up his own single life down the road. At this point you are only exploring and so go enjoy the experience, if and when you meet someone and you feel it moving forwards romantically enough for your s to be introduced to new guy, then I would speak to your h prior to that happening so he is aware.
I have not told my h of my "friendship" with another man, its none of his business and I as I don't know where its going myself it may be an empty story. I also dont want him to start being interested in me and my life so I give this new whateveritis up, just because he does not want me to be with anyone else, when he does not actually want to be with me either.
My h could well be seeing someone else already, he did not tell me about his first ow for weeks and he introduced my boys to her before telling me. If your h met someone else, I would not be surprised if he kept her quiet for quite some time, he would be enjoying his high, part of that is you not knowing about her.
Go, explore this and if it becomes something you really want or you meet someone you really like, then let your h know.
This is only my personal opinion, does not mean its right!!
You are truly amazing M, I really admire you, you inspire me to get out there and experience what life has to offer.
Love n hugs to you xoxo
Hi Lou! No offense taken - aren't differing opinions helpful? xoxoxo
I tend to agree w/Lou. What you do w/your personal life at the moment is your business. There's no need to advise your h since he's not living under the same roof and hasn't for some time. Trust me, he's not telling you everything he is doing.
Now, if you meet someone and you really like them and want to continue on w/the relationship, then I would mention it to your h. There's no need to even let your son know until you've met someone that you truly care about as well.
For now, keep your personal business to yourself. If it gets out to him, then tell him.
My feeling is that if we were separated, spend family time together etc. and I suddenly found out that h was dating ... from other sources ... I would feel a lot of things, not the least would be betrayed. This is my opinion only.
It's not clear to me where you two have left things in regards to your relationship, but he has said on several occasions that he's trying or things of that nature.
If you've had a shift, that might be viewed by your h as a significant change in what he believes to be the status quo, perhaps it's kinder to communicate that openly.
Lou, I love you and I would do exactly what you are doing in your situation, but I feel that M's situation is a bit different. Because they've spent family vacations together etc and he has on more than one occasion claimed to be trying to work on things but that M is being off-putting, or how ever he's put it .. I just don't feel that a shift of this significance should be kept quiet.
The thing is, how do you bring something like that up. Do you say something like, I think it's time for me to explore what life has to offer me? Do you say I want to try something different?
I don't know what you say, M but you asked and I can only tell you my opinion. Be kind. Treat h as you would want him to treat you. If you would want to know that he's dating, then tell him. If not, then take a different approach.
Me - I hate surprises so the last thing I would want is to go out to dinner with friends and bump into my spouse with another woman.
That's just me.
xoxoxoxoxo
Whatever you decide, if you do it as you've done everything else, with integrity and honesty to yourself it will be the right decision for you xoxoxoxo
much love as always
bttrfly,
I do understand where you are coming from, just as I understand where Lou is coming from. So, with that in mind, here's what I am thinking.
The door will open in one of her conversations w/him and she can then tell him what she is thinking about. If she decides to tell him that she is considering exploring the dating arena, maybe she could say something like this: "h, I've been giving it considerable thought and I am ready to start dating." I wouldn't go into a long explanation, but leave it short and sweet. It will give him something to think about.
It will be interesting to see how he would respond/react to this news. Then again, it may be like water on a duck's back and just slide right off.
Hi MLeigh, as you know, I chose not to date whilst still married. But my XH did file relatively quickly, so I haven't been in that situation of being long-time separated.
The way I see it, at this point you are choosing to reach out to guys and see if you enjoy spending time with a particular one. That may mean you are meeting up for a coffee with one guy and a drink for another - very much on a casual/friendly basis - socialising with a member of the opposite sex. I don't see any particular need to tell your H about that.
However, if you do meet a particular guy and want to become exclusive with him. Maybe you want to introduce him to your S, or meet his kids if he have them. Or maybe have him stay over?
At that point, I think it would be a good plan to let your H know. 'I'm seeing someone, I plan for him to meet S etc.' Because I think at that point, it could well change the parameters for your interactions with H and it seems fair to let him know.
But until or unless, I would socialise with some new guy friends and enjoy yourself
xx
agreed Job. It would be very interesting.
Hello. Bttrfly, Lou, Job, Sotto, big hugs and thank you. You all have given me some great advice, I knew I could count on you for that. I truly appreciate all of the thoughts and opinions.
Bttrfly, I want to answer your questions as I have given them a lot of thought. Yes, I do not think things will change with H. It's been 3 1/2 years, he is still stuck and has not done the work. He can not apologize or face what he has done, he continues to twist my words and actions into this all being my choice. He is a very manipulative passive aggressive man, and I don't see that changing. My feelings don't come from despair though, I would say they come from acceptance.
To answer the second question, I don't want to share my private life with him because I have no idea what he does in his spare time, he doesn't share a single thing with me. I don't see signs of OW these days, but in the beginning during his heavy replay, there were definite signs that H may have been spending some time with someone.
I know H is not himself, and there is no doubt he is going through something, and yes I love him and always will.....I just think it is time, like you said, to explore what life has to offer me. I feel guilty in feeling this way while still married, but again, he left me. H has never said he is trying, he says he doesn't know what the right thing is to do, that he is handling this best as he can, that he is confused and scared....
Lou said it well, this is just exploring, testing the waters. I wouldn't say I am happy or excited about meeting new people, I don't want to be here, I never wanted this. But, I have been feeling, on my nights alone, out with friends, I have been missing having a special someone to share those times with. Who knows, I may realize I am still not ready or comfortable. Right now, I just want to have conversation with someone I am attracted to and share interests with. Whether I am ready to go on an actual date with someone is still unknown.
So, I do not plan on bringing this up with H. For one, I do not want him to think this is just a tantrum, trying to get a reaction from him. For another, I don't want him to react by sucking me in with false promises, just so I can continue to stay put while he continues to do his own thing. I am not looking to hurt him or cause any further stress in his world, so I see no reason to say anything unless needed.
If a conversation comes up, I will let him know I am opening myself up to explore some new things. If he asks more questions, I will be honest. I will keep my values and won't lie or mislead him. In our last recent conversation, I did tell him we should either start talking some things out to help us decide what to do, or live separate lives. In fact, I have told him that several times. And he has always told me that he doesn't want to hold me back from moving on....
If I was to find out H was dating or had a special someone, of course it would hurt, but I would not be surprised. I also would never bring someone around S unless he was very very special, and not before I would let H know.
Thank you again for helping me work through this new little side stop on my path! All of your compliments and positive energy help me so much! I hope to meet some new friends and will keep you updated.
Still NC with H, but my life flows in a Zen like state. I am eating healthy and exercising, I feel great. I am taking better care of myself than I ever have. Work is good, most likely only 1 more month of unpaid random days off. My budgeting has kept everything in line, so I am enjoying these free days! I am a better momma than ever and S and I continue our journey into his pre teen self. It's crazy how quickly he is growing and I treasure all my time with him. Living in the moment and appreciating it has changed my life, I am a very happy M!
My girlfriend that works with H mentioned to me that there is talk around the company that H can not handle his job. Well, I have been asking myself how he is doing it from day 1, it sounds like it is catching up to him. This is a man who gets easily overwhelmed, can't handle people getting upset or showing angry emotions, has terrible communication skills, and he is managing 100 guys!?!? I guess the cracks are starting to show.
Another thing that I have been feeling lately that I will share about H: He is very good at twisting things to make it seem as if I am the one who wants things the way they are today. He has even gotten me second guessing myself a few times by twisting around my words. I am not sure if he is really believing it to justify his choices, or if it's all manipulative B.S. For example, saying I don't want to spend family time together, saying I said we can divorce, saying I don't think it would be a smart choice to live together....all taken out of context. This used to bother me so much. I would lose sleep thinking of how I can make my intentions clear, how I can do whatever possible to show him how much I want things to work out. I have stopped sweating it because everyone around me knows the truth, I know the truth, I am even confident that my S knows the truth. He can make me out to be the bad guy all he wants, but everyone who matters knows my true self and true intentions. That long time fear has diminished, which may be why I feel ready to explore.
hello love!! fwiw, these questions i ask you from time to time never need to be answered here. rather, they are 'thought prompts' for lack of a better phrase, to help you work thru whatever you're facing.
i don't want you to ever feel that you owe me - or anyone - any explanations.
if my questions helped you sort through and come up with a plan that feels right, i'm delighted!
M you are someone who has always acted with integrity, grace and compassion, and what you've outlined makes sense to me, anyway! more importantly, I sense that you're at peace with this.
thanks for clarifying your h's comments. yeah, they do tend to do the old MLC twist and shout while they are re-writing history and/or making it easier to justify their decisions and actions, don't they. It's like they all read the same book or something.
you sound strong, at peace and ready. we are here for you always !!! xoxoxoxoxoxo
{{{{hugs and much love}}}}
Mleigh - I just want you to know that I am thinking of you. I always enjoy hearing from you.
In regards to your wanting to date, it's just hard because this whole time you've been moving forward and it *seems* like he's stuck in the finger pointing stage. (Maybe he's further along but it's not transparent?) He seems to be holding grudges over garden variety marital problems and yet not seeing the tsunamis he's caused. It's that ever present lack of self awareness that runs through MLC.
I want to see you and your son as happy and fulfilled as possible. Keep us posted on how you are doing. You are an inspiration; another one who made it through this experience stronger than ever.
MLeigh - just popped in after a long absence but so happy to hear about how well you are doing. Sending you nothing but the best. I believe you've been unbelievably strong and gracious through everything.
You deserve a life full of friends and love. Perhaps that means a boyfriend soon or perhaps it means being surrounded by the loyalty of loving family and friends that value you!
Hey MLeigh, just got up to date with your posts.
I really don't know you did it, remaining friends with H for so long! The difference between you and I is that I would contstantly pushing H for more especially if we went away together!
Did your talks ever materialise? I dont know, I get the impression he is not sure how to move forward and be in an R with you because he is worried it isn't what you want. However that is your choice to make now not his.
I agree that he doesn't need to know what you are doing re dating. My H was constantly asking questions about what we were doing but was very reluctant to let us into his life.
MLeigh, you have been doing this for a long time and it was lovely that you did this mostly with your S's wellbeing in mind but your H was also benefiting from the arrangement. Like me, the only person who wasn't benefiting is you so now is the time to look after you and let S and H make their own arrangements.
Take care.
Hello,
Bttrfly, I appreciate your questions and it actually helps to share my feelings
HW, H being stuck is putting it mildly, more on that coming up.
Gwen, so good to see your visit! I definitely keep surrounded by caring friends. In fact this experience helped me realize how important it is to be around positivity, love and support. I am lucky to have that.
Coly, I did used to push H a lot. His responses only brought on more pain, the hurtful feedback was enough to quiet me. However, more on that, because my pulling back actually got thrown in my face. Yes, H and I talked last night for about an hour.....
So, H brought up we were supposed to talk before his trip. I was shocked! He asked to come over last night after work. He did, we all had dinner, then H and I went in the office room to chat.
It was awkward small talk until we got quiet. We sighed and laughed, I told him I don't really know what to say to start. He agreed. So I asked how he was and how he was feeling about us lately. So the conversation started.
I began by saying I really didn't see this going anywhere, is it that he doesn't want to work on anything? He said he doesn't feel that I want to work on things. I asked him, you don't think for the last 3 1/2 years that I have wanted to try to save our marriage? He said in the beginning, I was trying, but then I stopped saying anything and talked about how happy I was, so he figured I wasn't interested anymore. I asked, when I said I was happy, you took that as happier without you? He said yes. He said he could see I was happier and doing better, so he figured I wanted things to stay this way. (Hhmmmm truth or BS?)
So I said that was incorrect, that I have very much wanted to work on us. I asked him, why would I be suggesting counseling, taking things slow, dating each other, if I wasn't wanting to work this out? His answer was that it's unfair I get upset that's he doesn't do anything to try when I don't do anything either....
I said, don't you kind of think the ball is in your court with that? You needed to move out, to have space, be alone and figure things out. And You were waiting for me to ask you out? I think I laughed there, but really not so funny.
He got agitated, said I moved out first. I told him, my reason for moving out was completely different than his. I had just found out he was doing things behind my back, I was convinced he was screwing around, and he was telling me he didn't want to be together anymore. I said, I did not handle that well at all, I freaked out, was obsessed with finding out the truth and doing things totally unlike me. I had to get away before I made things worse or completely lost it in front of my 6 year old son. I left in hope of saving our marriage, not leaving it.
He then went into why he did all those things, how I made him feel. Neglect, invisible, unloved, the same old speech. I gave back my same old speech, my own depression and struggle, mainly having to do with being away from S 12 hours a day. I asked him, remember when I would come home to take a quick shower? I would cry in the shower, I cried every day because I was so unhappy, not with you, with the situation. He was quiet, but went back to how my withdrawal made HIM feel.
I said, H, the miscommunication between us shows me that I am not able to give you what you need. 3 1/2 years of wanting nothing more than to work things out, you say you didn't feel. I loved you very much, but was not able to adjust well to being a working mom, I had to put you on the back burner, but it was not because I didn't love you and I am sorry you felt that way. I said H, I just don't think we connect or communicate right. Beside that, I needed your support when I was drowning, not being demanded of more. There are always tough times, life is not unicorns and rainbows at all times. I need to know I have someone by my side who can weather those storms with me, not bail on me.
He back peddled a bit, I don't think he expected me to shrug and say, oh well, I tried my best, but that is basically what I did.
He then started to list all the things I did that he didn't like, all the stuff about me that made him so unhappy. I agreed, yes, we see things different, we handle things different, there is no right or wrong. He kept on. That's when my heart started beating, I got tunnel vision and I said no more, I am not going to waste my time listening to what he has complained about 100 times before. All I could hear in my head was no, I am not going back there. Thinking something is wrong with me, that I should be different.
I got up and suggested he go. He said, there you go, shutting down. I said not shutting down, just not going to listen to the same thing I have heard over and over again.
Before he left, I told him I think we should explore what else may be out there for us. He looked pale, totally wiped out from our conversation, face confused and mouth hanging open.
Guys, I am not sure if this is MLC or a guy who has simply fallen out of love. It happens. H is not able to handle much. Having a child was a very difficult adjustment for us. Neither of us did well with it. Now, I can see the toll of facing our failed marriage. It drains him. But I can't keep going on with this.
Of course, my main point of our conversation never got addressed, which is, what are we going to do about our marriage. I will be setting up another chat to go over that.
So basically, me being me makes H very very unhappy. There are too many things about me and my personality that he finds unacceptable and incompatible with. He said himself, too many differences have come up over the years.
I myself don't see myself back with him. No way will I go back to feeling criticised about my parenting and ideas of fun. He just recently shunned me for giving S his water in a little plastic cup. He said, seriously, you still use those with him? I started giving S his water in a glass cup, he said no mommy, I want water in the plastic cup, it's easier to hold. While I snuggled with S last night at bedtime, I had no guilt that a brooding H was waiting in bed, like the old days. No way. I will never go back to that.
I'm sorry that things turned out the way they did, but you can see he's stuck and the complaints about you are the same over and over again. He's still not willing to look at himself in the mirror and work on himself. Why should you change your entire self to please him. He married you and you most certainly didn't change that much since you said "I do". If he's that unhappy w/you for being the person you are, then he needs to file for a divorce and walk away. You can't live this way indefinitely, or at least that's what he's thinking in the back of his mind (that two of you should continue on as you have been). BTW, I still think he's in MLC from the way he's still stuck in the "blame the spouse".
I think another time to chat is needed, but you need to be prepared for the fact that he's going to avoid the subject of what to do about the marriage and go right back into stating what he doesn't like about you. I hate to say this, but you may, one day, have to be the one to pull the plug on your situation. I don't see him doing it any time soon.
Please try to enjoy your weekend. I know you are frustrated w/the entire situation.
{{{{{{{MLeigh}}}}}}}
Is there any way you guys would be willing to go to a marital mediator or a marriage counselor ? It seems like it might be helpful if someone was there to guide the conversation a little bit - a neutral party pointing out his being stuck might be a bit of a catalyst.
I dunno ... I see a guy who doesn't want to be divorced but doesn't know what to do to save his marriage so he defaults to the complaint list. Am I wrong? Probably.
And no, you shouldn't have to ever change who you are.
Parenting was hard for us too. We were together for 10 years before we decided to have a family and were so happy when I got pregnant and our son was born, but things changed dramatically. ExMIL interfered to the point of us almost breaking up.
My exh felt I put son first and yes, I admit I did - more than I should have. But I also see that my exh really needed me to be the mother he didn't have and on some level resented me being that mother to our son. It was a painful place for him because he wanted his son to have a great mom, but it certainly highlighted what he didn't have himself.
Sweetheart you know I love you and only want you to be happy. Take a deep breath, do something nice for yourself like a bubble bath or a nice hike. Think deeply about what you want and envision your life five years from now. How does it look? Who do you want to be? What kind of a mom do you want to be? Who is beside you? You will find your answers by going deep inside yourself.
I'm here xoxoxoxo
Definitely he is stuck on past hurts. And it sounds like you are tired of trying/feeling your own hurts.
If you want to try last ditch efforts, when next you talk, I might say to him: "h, from our last conversation, I hear you are very hurt by things from our past. How can I help you heal from these things?"
My suspicion is he won't have a "solution." I suspect he'll continue to vent about things that can't be undone.
If he starts to complain again about things that happened years ago (that you have already explained/already apologized for/can't be undone), I would validate and again say: "I hear you are hurt, what exactly can I do to help you heal?"
Like most people stuck in a loop, he doesn't realize he's stuck. It happened. It can't be changed. It's only insurmountable if he makes it insurmountable. Of course he can't see this.
Pulling away from him only gives him more to complain about and reinforces to him that you aren't "there for him" and "here you go again pulling away." I know it stinks but that "doesn't work," so I'd stop doing that. Try the opposite: asking him for the solution.
Perhaps asking for solutions might nudge him to realize that yes, that all happened. Yes, that was then. What now?
And then, again, only if you want to try as a last ditch effort end with: "well, I am here to help you move forward if you have concrete ways I can help." But unfortunately, he needs to understand that "now is the time to try to heal these rifts as we can't go on like this forever. This is not an ultimatum, more just that it's time to fix this or move on as as we've been stuck here for years. Both routes will take tremendous work in different ways."
At some point we all have have to cook or get out of the kitchen. But maybe you've already thrown down your apron and walked out of the kitchen yourself?
Hi MLeigh, that sounded like a tough conversation for you both (((big hugs)))
And as others have said, he does still sound rather stuck on the 'if it wasn't for you, this M would be great' merry-go-round...
Yes, none of us were perfect, but it takes two of us to make a marriage work (or falter) and none of us are faultless.
His does seem to be a rather low burn situation - without the high energy 'running' behaviours that some MLCers show.
The thing is - he is where he is and is thinking what he is thinking. What you do in respect of all of that and how you live your life is up to you.
And I know you will take the high road and live as authentically and compassionately as you are able 'cause that's who you are..
Hope you have a lovely weekend xx
M
Your sitch has always been the head scratcher for me and that says a bit all things MLC considered.
Personally I think we all come here and do what we humanly can to try and salvage the marriage, then over time and a good amount of mirror work we all change into better and stronger people. The one thing that rings true to me even more so now is the "The old marriage is dead" line ... it is very much true, and honestly for me its not all a bad thing because the old Cali too is dead. TBH I would not even date my MLCr at this point. I read a bit into your refusing to go back to that place with your H ... you are so much stronger now and after all the work we have put in I do not think anyone can blame us for finally demanding better especially when the MLCr really has not done the work nor made much progress comparatively speaking over the past 2/3/4 years.
Like job .. I have thought and even said for some time that you would be the one to move the sitch ... seems your H would be forever comfortable with status quo, and it does appear you are arriving to a point of "Sh$t or get off the pot" as my father would so eloquently put it. We all know when enough is enough, for me I have accepted this new life, its strange and I do find myself at times disappointed with the loss of the family unit but not so much her anymore if that makes any sense as I realized that I allowed portions of the 3 years of my sons life to pass without soaking up every ounce I could being distracted here and there ... I am not going to miss another second due to her crisis.
No one but you can say 'when' ... you just know it deep inside, atleast I did. I am at peace and continue to grow, heal and learn and I wish that for all who are here ... but like all things this too takes time. You are such a strong amazing person I have no doubt you will get to where you need to be regardless of what your H is doing.
Hello and happy weekend,
Here in Cali the weather is beautiful and spring is in the air! I am having a nice weekend. I went to a friend's bday party last night. A neighbor was supposed to come, who I have been told I should meet, but he had another birthday party he was at himself. I guess it wasn't time for that. Today I am draining the hot tub and getting my planters ready. This week S and I are both off work and school for spring break. It's a staycation, at son's request, but I have a list of things to do.
Well, I guess we all agree H is very stuck and would rather stay this way then do something about it. Too bad, I'm not and ready for change. I spent some time this week writing things down to get it out of my head and got it down to a simple to the point letter. I used a mix of my own thoughts and the wonderful advice I got here. I decided to read it to H when he picked up S yesterday. It was actually funny, it made it light for me to stand in front of H and read my letter.
He was kind, sat down and listened.
Me: when I ask to get together to talk, it's not to rehash how we felt or how we got here. I was there, we went through all of that together. Our relationship was not in a good place, we were not happy, so of course that strain resulted in not so good vacations, weekend trips and boating trips. 16 years ago, these same trips would have been a totally different experience. (Here I stopped reading and asked H, do you agree with that? That we were unhappy with each other and that caused things to be not so fun?)
H: yes, but the trips weren't all THAT bad. We had some fun in there too.
Me: (I continued reading) It wasn't us, it was the relationship. For me, that time is over, that bad relationship and those bad times are dead and buried, and I would never want either of us to feel the way we did again. I don't like talking about it, it's difficult for me, because it takes me back to a very unhappy time in my life that I have left behind. You seem to be stuck there, is there anything I can do to help with that?
H: he said ya, I don't know, shrugged.
Me: If there is anything I can do to help, let me know.
H: ok
Me: (I continued reading) So when I ask to talk, it's about where we are now and what we should do going forward. We need to decide what we are going to do about our marriage. Can we plan to meet again soon to talk about these things?
H: yes. But you bring up the past too.
Me: It seems to come up a lot. I guess we both have to agree and try not to do it.
H agreed. I told him, no matter what happens, I do want us to be friends and get along, for S. H agreed. We got up to walk out of the room. He was quiet, then stopped and asked, what if we run into the same problem of not liking to do the same things?
I answered, I don't think it's really about liking the same things as much as the problems being caused by a bad relationship. We did a lot of things together and had fun when we were in love. I told him, if I went boating with my friends right now, I would have a blast. Our unhappy boating trips were caused by us being unhappy with each other. I asked him, would you even want to do something with me alone and would you think it would be fun right now? He shrugged. I said, probably not because our relationship isn't in a good place. I told him, would you want to go wine tasting with me right now, something I love to do? Because you used to enjoy doing that when we were close, but I wouldn't expect you to want to now.
He said, well, I don't really like wine anymore. We laughed.
I said, ya, I guess I am just saying the level of fun and enjoying your time with someone depends a lot on the level of how good the relationship is. What we need to decide is if we have it in us to put the effort into making the relationship good, or if we want to move on.
I really think I saw a little light bulb go off, but we will see. He seemed to understand what I was saying, we will see how our next talk goes.
HW, my apron is off but I haven't left the kitchen yet. If H was to decide to "try", I would "try" too. No way would I end this without trying. I just don't have it in me to let this drag out for months longer without addressing things. That's all I have wanted, and I will continue to push it. So far, it seems H is ok with that too.
I hope everyone has a great weekend and week
I think you handled this conversation very well. You talked about what was on your mind, stopped and asked him questions and it gave him an opportunity to think and respond. You both listened and the one thing that both of you will need to try to do is leave the past in the past. Focus on the present, as it is a gift of time and let the future roll out when it's ready,
Enjoy your week off.
Perfect M ... full of love, grace, humor and compassion. just perfect xoxoxoxoxo {{{{{hugs}}}}}
Wow it's been over a month since my last post. Sometimes I can't believe how fast time goes by.
I continue to move along on my journey and H remains stuck. Let's see, last post he was leaving on his business trip over his birthday. I had S call him with a Happy Birthday message. He returned from his trip with a cold and didn't seem to enjoy it as much as last year. S got him a gift but this year, nothing from me but a birthday hug once he was feeling better.
Other than that we remain no contact. Just pick up and drop off with S.
Oh, I did try to schedule another talk session, but he flaked.
I recognize certain patterns in myself. I go through spins of feeling we must do something about this, than other cycles of not thinking much about it. I continue to feel angry at H for all he has done, I am sure forgiveness will come in time, but I am still not there. I do remind myself that I give him power of my thoughts and do my best to just feel, then release. Sometimes I even allow a quick cry then feel better. I tend to push back my sadness of rejection from H and put up a tough front, most likely since I have done that my whole life having my dad absent from my life. So, I am working hard to let myself feel what I feel, a new honesty inside myself, it seems to help.
H also continues to play Mr. Nice. I used to think this meant he still cares, I now tend to think it's more out of guilt and looking good to others. A couple of weeks ago he came to pick up S for his weekend. I had plans and needed to go, he was relaxing on the couch, so I left asking them to lock up when they leave. H texted a bit later to let me know he did some repairs around the house. For me or to look good to my friends? Or because he saw the card on the counter for a handyman? Either way I was grateful and it saved me money. We got a few hundred dollars back from our tax refund, and I asked H if I could put it towards house upkeep, and he said sure.
Last weekend was Mothers Day. Which also fell on our 13th wedding anniversary. Of course many emotions surfaced for me. It was H weekend with S, but without my asking, brought S home a bit earlier on Sunday. That morning while I was alone, I pulled out the wedding album. I can't help but ask myself, was this real? Did he not ever love me? But as I looked through the album I was reminded that yes, he loved me and we had some good years and fun times. I truly loved this man with all my heart and believe he felt the same. So I accept people change, I definitely got the best of him and am so grateful for that and the son he gave me. I decided to leave it at that, put the album away and put the thoughts away of a fourth anniversary ignored, avoided and unmentioned.
I made S and H favorite, choc chip brownies. When they showed up, H empty handed of course, no surprise, I gave S brownies and thanked him for making me the proudest mommy in the world. I gave H a container of brownies and thanked him for giving me my son. H was surprised and gave me at least 3 bear hugs. S gave me a beautiful vase he made at school, and a very sweet card he made me with MIL help. She must have known her putz S would do nothing. I thanked her for that.
I talked about dating a few posts ago and have taken the step to open myself up to it! I have not met anyone I am interested in yet, but no rush, just exploring this new phase for me.
I again hear rumors that H is involved with drugs. I watch him, look for signs, check his pupils, but I don't see any sign of this at pick up or drop off. If he is, it must be on his own time. I may bring it up at some point, I kind of feel like I should, but I do think his work overwhelms him and plays a huge part of him becoming an a$$. I have mentioned that maybe this position at work may not be the best fit for him, but get typical PA response that he can handle it. He actually replied with a clip from Godfather 2 where the guy is yelling that he doesn't care what people think, he can handle it and deserves respect. Then he says, you know that is a joke, right? I said sure, or is it? It's his typical PA behavior. He takes my comment as a put down when in reality, I am just worried about him. Thing is, I will remain the one person in his life who calls him out and stays real with him. I think he needs it, and it's who I am.
So all in all, this is where I am at:
H and I are in VERY different places. Emotionally, mentally and mature wise. I truly believe it is best we are apart right now. For me and my son. I don't know what will happen, but I believe one day one of us will wake up and know what to do. In the meantime, I will live life and enjoy it. I continue to wonder why he hasn't divorced me yet, but today I still feel this is his mess to clean up.
Coming up is summer vacation! I booked a beachfront condo for S, dog and I. No invitation to H this time. I can't wait for my ocean therapy!
Hope all is well, I plan on checking in with some of you this weekend. Enjoy your weekend
mwah :* Missed you M xoxoxo glad for the post and to "see" your sunshiney self. You have worked hard and achieved that elusive gift: detachment. Very proud of you! Don't be a stranger!
Thanks for stopping by Bttrfly! I think you are right, I think I finally achieved true detachment! Only took me 4 years
I have to share the latest H weirdness. H TM the other day asking if he could stop by and grab his dad's lock box key from the safe. So he comes in, says his hello to me, S and dog. S and I were just finishing dinner, I invited him to grab a plate, he said sure! He said first he needed to go to the restroom. He was gone for like 20 minutes, in fact I forgot about him! He then comes back in the room and I realize he was in the office all that time. He then says he really wants to get home, can he take some food to go? I say sure and pack some up. He then asks if he can have a plastic fork? I gave him one, and off he went! Lol who does that? Um, a teenager at his mom's house? H has seriously reverted back into a 20 year old mentality, it's pretty trippy to watch. HaWho, I think of you often and how you witness this daily!
I went in the office and checked around, some of my papers were moved around. Snoop much??
So on to update about me! Well I have met a new friend. We chat daily and he has wished me a good day every morning. Boy has it been a long time since I have gotten those kinds of messages! He is divorced, but says his ex is his best friend, which he says is actually WHY they divorced. He asked about me, and I was completely honest about being separated for 4 years, it wasn't my choice, I tried everything to save my family, but it takes 2. I told him H and I also remain friends, especially for S. Well, I expected him to run for the hills, I REALLY did! But he was totally understanding and we continue to chat and get to know each other. Nice and slow, it's nice to have a new friend in my life. The weird thing for me is I don't feel guilty or ashamed. I stayed true to my marriage, tried everything and am so glad I did. Now it's time to move on. Even if this doesn't become anything more than friends, it feels SO good to know that I am still alive inside, H didn't break me, or make me bitter. Hope and love are still in me and I do have the desire to share that with someone special.
My marriage is still a legal document, but we have been emotionally divorced for years. He left, I have the house, medical benefits and more than 50% custody of S. I don't intend to rock that boat anytime soon, at least until S is a few years older and can speak up for himself. It sounds kind of selfish but it's what S and I need and works for us. S comes first, before anything and anyone. I will be free from this situation soon, I know it's only temporary.
I hope you are all having a wonderful weekend!
Good to see an update from you, Mleigh! Sounds like you are enjoying life and the new friendship. kudos to you!
Mleigh - sounds like you are enjoying some well deserved peace. I am so happy to hear about this new friend and being open to possibilities. Hope you have a wonderful summer with your S. Blessings and good vibes Mleigh.
Hi there friends! Another month has flown by. I still continue to surprise myself with the changes and growth inside of me.
I went on my first date. It was one of the most stressful and nerve wracking thing I have done in a long time. I was also excited, but very nervous. We had a wonderful dinner, stayed and talked for 3 hours, then walked through town for a pre 4th of July festival. It was fun, but Unfortunately, I had absolutely not one iota of attraction to him. I had seen pictures, and knew he wasn't my normal type, but we had been texting for a while and had so much in common....needless to say, I was a bit disappointed. When I went home that night, I was so happy to be back in my safe little bubble. Not sure when I will come out from my bubble again! However the experience reminded me how content I am with my world I built, how much easier it is to keep my focus on me and S, because the whole thing was distracting, and maybe I still am not quite ready for all that? I don't know if it would have been different if I was attracted to him.....
On the H front...he continues to show up at the house with no warning. One Sunday he was a block away before telling me, I wasn't home, and had to rush home. In the last few weeks, he has even been showing up early in the morning to drop S off with me instead of taking him to summer camp, sometimes with an empty lunch box that I have had to scramble to pack.
Last night was his night with dog and S. I went to a friend's for a bbq. H dropped off S at his friends for a birthday party, then decided to text me to tell me he was dropping off the dog at my house because he had some running around to do. I replied ok but that I am not home. Now here is where I should have clarified with the man child on whether he was going to pick the dog back up or leave her. He always has her on nights with S, so I didn't think it would be any different. I got home around 11:00 at night. I stepped in the back to see if kitty was home, and there was dog. I was shocked. She had been there for 8 hours. It was 104 that day, luckily he was smart enough to leave her water, but she had no food. So once again, H just assumed I would be around to cover his irresponsibility. That was the last straw.
I am very flexible with H and his schedule needs, but I realized this is getting out of hand. This man truly thinks I have no life, do nothing but sit around waiting to take care of S and dog, and be his back up. Time to set that record straight! One of my biggest accomplishments is to be able to deal with him calmly now. When he dropped off S today, I asked him why he didn't let me know that he was dropping off dog to LEAVE her there, and that she was in the backyard. I told him I got home late and had no idea she was out there, and that I wouldn't have known if I didn't go back there looking for kitty. He laughed it off, said she would have been fine if left out there all night. I told him, that's not the point. I asked, don't you think you should have let me know? He replied he didn't know because he was busy running around and didn't pick up S until 10 and figured it was too late to get her.
I told him, she was your responsibility last night, what is it with you deciding to dump those on me lately, without even running it by me? I brought up S and coming by unannounced. After some discussion, he admitted that his work talked to him and decided 9 is too late to be coming in, so that is why he has been dropping him off early. I reminded him that I have a job too, and taking S to summer camp last minute makes ME late, and the world does not revolve around him. I told him in the future if he decides to make changes in the schedule, with S or dog, that he needs to run it by me first.
He then came back with if I can't help then he can ask his mom to help. My look must have said it all because he immediately got defensive and said many people have their parents help them with this kind of stuff, that he isn't the only one. I bit my lip about that and the fact that his problems are always put on others. Instead I just told him, H, you should have come to me when your work said this, that I need to know this stuff. I told him I will talk to my work and get approval to adjust my schedule, I just take it away from my lunch break, and that it should be fine because they love S and always have him come first. But I added that it's pretty crappy that his boss says this after 2 years of it being ok....but it makes me wonder if other things are going on at work for them to be cracking down on him.
Anyway, I am super proud of how I am able to keep my emotions in check during these talks. I have learned how H shuts down to anger. I am learning how to talk with him in ways that help him to listen instead.
Aside from all that, I am doing really well! Summer has been fun. We have our beach trip in 3 weeks ( with no H). I have a concert in 2 weeks. I have home projects and maintenance keeping me busy. Oh, that reminds me. MIL notices these projects and constantly tells me to ask H to help me. I finally told her, H really doesn't have much to do with the house anymore, so I am learning to do these things on my own. They really are clueless to the reality of our situation, I wonder what picture H paints for them?
I hope you all are enjoying your weekend and summer. Stay strong, move forward, and let peace and calm into your heart and the madness of MLC out.
M
I forgot to share some of the personal feelings I felt after my date.
To recap, 4 years post BD, first date.
I was sitting in the restaurant having conversation, and a few times, wished I was there with H. OLD H. The man I loved so much, where was he? A few times during that night, it hit me, I am out with a total stranger. Where was my H? How did we get here? I will admit, it brought up many emotions.
In the first couple of days after, I almost reached out to H, I almost invited him to join us to the beach house vacation....but I knew from experience....don't react on emotions. And I am so glad I didn't react because it didn't take long for reality to clear the fog.
The reality is that my H is a different person and no longer the person I fell in love with. Ugh that reality can still hurt.
Hugs to you all
M
^^^^ so much YES here on both posts! Poor pup, left in that heat! Since early days I've been told that if I can't take son, exh will make other arrangements - with either the pill popping friend or ex-mil, though to be fair, now that exh is out of denial about PPF (pill popping friend), I bet he won't send son PPF's way. I learned very early on that nothing will stop my exh from doing exactly what he wants when he wants. With exh it's always work, or so I'm led to believe. I have no reason to think he's lying, and if he is, that's on him. I always think it's a terrible lesson to make son feel that work is more important.
I'm so glad your job is open to you taking care of son when you need to, The point is you should't have to, but sadly, it is what it is. I've had to learn to do what you did- stand up for myself and point out what's not acceptable. Good for you! What he does or doesn't do in response is all on him. I'm so proud of you for the way you handled both him and his mother. Well done!! xoxoxo
As for the date - ugh. Well, I've only had that coffee date last year, but I so relate to what you said about being opposite the date and wishing for your pre-MLC H, then realizing that's not who H is anymore. Been there, bought the t-shirt!
Don't react on emotions is SUCH a hard, yet valuable lesson. You are doing so well! Big {{{{{ hugs }}}}} to you !!! xoxoxoxo so nice to have an update!
I am so sorry that your pup was left out in the heat. I hope that your pup and kitty are doing okay.
Your h is still trying to control you by stating other options if you can't or won't do the things he wants on his own time frame. He knows that if he suggests other options you won't like them and will continue to pick up the slack on his responsibilities. He doesn't like the fact that you are out enjoying yourself and he's not happy w/the life he has chosen.
You've handled your situation w/grace and a whole lot of patience.
As for the date, it will get easier and be more fun as you continue your journey. We all have been right where you and yes, I even use to think about my old xh and wishing he was that way again...but alas...he's not the same at all.
I agree w/bttrfly...you are doing so well. Enjoy your vacation.
Hope your dog is ok! It has been so hot lately.
Sorry the date did not work out. I am sure there will be triggers in that area for some time. Can you imagine if your date starts talking about getting old, wanting to fly drones, or shows up in bedazzled jeans, etc. You'll be ducking out the bathroom window.
So nice to hear from you!! You rock.
M
So good to hear an update from you. I see H is still in his delusional state and I do hope he figures out a way to get through the tunnel but it does seem he has yet to hit that point.
I did have a chuckle about the dating, I have always been curious when you would reach that point and guessed it would go as it did. I seem to be there as well ... you hit a point where you wold like that company but after so long with one person it just seems to feel off. Don't worry .. I too bounce between my safety bubble and putting myself out there .... that is a cycle and all a part of this.
Sounds like you are doing very well and handling things perfectly
I don't know your whole sitch, but how come you don't want his mom to help? Why go out of your way when he could have help he gets on his time?
Do you have a bad relationship with her?
My ExSIL helps out on ex's time and sometimes mine. No shame in taking help when someone is willing to give it.
Took me a loooooooong time to learn that, but I let go control and if OWW can help, I let her too, although as a last resort.
Hey Bttrfly! Thanks for the pat on the back. It has taken a long time but yes, I have learned how to have constructive conversations with H. I get emotional, he gets defensive, that is the normal pattern. But if I keep my emotions in check, he listens.
Hi Job! I love to hear from you, thank you for stopping by and hope all is going well for you. My fur babies are great. I put up special screens for them so they can go in and out as they want. I forgot to think about the gifts cat brings me! The other night it was a mouse! It was chaos chasing that thing around the house but with cats help we got it in the garage. My cat and dog continue to bring me so much love and laughter, they have been a true blessing.
Hi HW! The sad thing is, I find myself attracted to men who look like H! Bald with a goatee. It's starting to annoy me, not sure if this is related to unresolved issues with H or if its just my type.....
Hi Cali! I'm glad to hear I am not the only one who got spooked with my date. It set off so many triggers for me! I will take your advice and consider it a part of the cycle. I have been beating myself up thinking, come on M!! It's been 4 years! I guess we all move at our own pace and I am going to allow myself to do just that.
Hi Ginger! Thank you for stopping by. That's a good question....I am not a fan of MIL. She crossed the line with me too many times and fueled the fire with H causing problems for us. He mainly sides with her on parenting issues and I felt very ganged up on with them. H chose mom over wife on many things she should have not muddled in. Aside from that, I feel H chose to be a single dad , he left, and he should have to live those choices. I do agree that family should be allowed to help out, I am just not there yet in my situation. I don't have those options with my own family and manage to figure it out, I guess I figure H should too. I will also add that I am very stubborn! S and MIL do spend 1 day a week together, it's called Grammy day, and it does help out both H and I. I put my own feelings towards her aside so S and her can have their own relationship.
I had quite a week! Work is a little crazy. In my business there is a lot of recruiting and our sister office took the bait and left to a competitor. They are after us too, but we decided to choose our success and happiness over money and stay. H has gotten wind of all this, his friends girlfriend worked for my company and also left for more money. H sent me a ranting text last night encouraging me to make sure I am being paid for my worth. I'm not, but I choose happiness over money. Not sure he understands that, but nice he cares.
My toilet clogged up. I mentioned it to H and he offered to come and fix it, but it was a work night and his night with S, so I told him I would take care of it. I couldn't bring myself to snake it myself, I have my limits! So I called a plumber. The toilet is old and I need a new one, so I may give in and ask H for help on that, maybe, or will just pay to have it done.
At drop off one morning, H noticed a black widow in front. They are everywhere, we are infested with spiders. He used to keep the house perimeter sprayed, but after 4 years now, it's gotten bad. He told me, just spray! Again, I have my limits and have a bug guy coming out this week.
Our smoke alarm went off one morning at 5 am. I was terrified and my first thought was grab S and dog and get out. As I ran down the hall, I realized no smoke, no fire, it was the alarm telling me it's time to change it. I went through the house and replaced them all myself, and added a carbon monoxide alarm. I put them up all by myself! I was so proud! Again refused H help.
Not sure what is going on with me but I just can't bring myself to let H help! I think part of it is to show him I can do it myself, that good old stubbornness. Also, his love language is acts of service, why let him leave here feeling like some kind of hero? I'm horrible, I know, not good DB'ING. I continue to break away any possible tie with him I can, to live my life without him in every way possible. If it wasn't for S....
All in all I am good. It's hot here this weekend so feeling a bit cooped up, but staying busy and getting much needed rest. So many stirred up emotions here lately! Take care everyone.
Xxoo
M
Stirred up emotions as in, mad H wasn't my date, mad he is not here to help me with all these house issues, mad he wasn't here for those few seconds I thought the house was on fire. Yes I am mad and don't want his help. He is free to go live his dream life I held him back from. I have always managed to take care of myself and continue to do so.
Hi all! I hope everyone is doing well. I am on vacation for a week!! Woohoo!! I plan on catching up with friends here. It really continues to comfort me that we here "get it" when many of my friends really don't.
So, busy days for me! Last weekend I went to a concert, a meet and greet, with one of my favorite Socal reggae bands. Me and two girlfriends went and had a blast! I was tongue tied and starstruck, but got some very good pics. The show was a total of 4 bands and I was sore for days after dancing for 5 hours straight! The whole experience was one of the funniest things I have ever done
My S knew how excited I was about this. I sent some pics to H since he had S, and all H could reply was making fun of my excitement. I have a huge passion for music, my friend with me commented he is just jealous as he has no passion for anything. My thought, H has no passion, period. It's that whole lack of emotions thing.
When I got S back, I showed him pics and video, and he gave me a big hug. My 10 year olds way of saying he was happy for me. My sweet kid, so not like his dad.
My S and I went toilet shopping. We cracked up when we saw the long row of toilets to choose from, a little overwhelming! I decided to ask H for help getting it from the store to home. He did, and came out of the bathroom saying he was going to put it in, but thought the old toilet was already taken out, and he didn't want to deal with that. I was so confused, did he think I was capable of removing a toilet by myself? What goes on in that head? I told him I will have it installed, and in all honesty, I was fine with that to make sure it's done right.....but also so disappointed that installing a new toilet in his son's bathroom, a chance to be around S, wasn't something he was willing to do.
It is very very clear, this house is my responsibility. However, I will continue to request 1/2 the cost of these upgrades as he still owns 1/2 equity. He never has shown any problem with that so I guess I am lucky.
My birthday is coming up on Tuesday. Big 48! I rented a beach house for S, dog and I. I can't wait! I can sit on the deck and stare at the ocean for hours, I even got myself some binoculars since it seems H took them all when he looted the house. I mentioned to H, out of respect of knowing where his S will be, that S and I will be away for a couple of days, but that it will not interfere with his schedule. S told him we were going to a beach house. I did NOT add, as I always have in the past, you are welcome to join us. As far as I'm concerned, he has worked so hard to get and stay away from me, so be it. And for the first time, I don't expect him to ask to come. I think he knows I don't want him there, and I don't think he wants to be.
It's going to be my birthday and I will be spending the day surrounded by unconditional love, and the sea to sooth my soul. No negativity, no physical reminder of a person who used to be someone else, no regrets.
I am so looking forward to the time away. There is a pool there, so even S is excited to be going.
My office celebrated my birthday on Friday since I will be away, and what an amazing job they did! I got balloons, roses, brunch, wine and sangria, even personal pics that were printed and hung up! Very cute. They then posted it on Facebook and I got tons of birthday wishes from friends, clients, co-workers and family. What a huge happy boost it was! I feel like I really needed that.
School is around the corner, so looking forward to getting back into that routine. H never did take any days off to spend with S this summer. I don't know guys, he seems to be slipping deeper into his fog.....but S has 100% of me and he knows that. I am getting to know a new friend, but just don't feel I really have time for dating in my life right now. At the same time, I would love to have a positive male influence around S. It's a weird place to be. Baby steps.
I just read Irish's post to Bttrfly about dating and it makes sense to me. Eventually it will feel right. I will just continue on until it does.
Thanks for reading and hope to catch up with you all this week. Take care of yourselves.
M
Oh wow......wish I was going with you, have a wonderful time!
I am going to wish you a Happy Birthday a few days early!
I think you are better off having the toilet installed. At least you will know it's done properly at a certain time of the day.
Enjoy your time away. You and your son have earned it!
Thanks Westo, it was wonderful!
Job, I had the toilet installed by a professional. Drama free and peace of mind. I gave H the bill to chip in half
So Tuesday was my birthday. The night before when I dropped off S with H, H had questions about the beach trip. Where was it, was anyone else going, when would we be back. I pointed out some days before school starts that S needs a place to go and asked if he could take some time off. I said, don't make me play "cat in the cradle". It was a joke, but H got really upset with me. He said that was mean. It was a joke, but being honest with myself, it also comes from a place of anger and disappointment.
The next morning H dropped off S, it was my birthday. He wished me a happy birthday and left for work. This is the first birthday he did not take S shopping to get me a gift. He did the same on Mothers day. I guess we are here now? So I have to ask, how do you guys handle birthdays and holidays with your ex and a child too young to shop on his own? Is this just the norm? Or do I need to continue asking myself, what the h#ll did I do to make him hate me so much???
I did get surprised by phone calls from both MIL and FIL to wish me a happy birthday. FIL also sent a card with cash, just like old times. He signed it "dad" and asked to please do lunch sometime, that he misses me.
Later that day, I brushed off feeling hurt by H. S, dog and I headed to the beach home. It was the perfect get away! I relaxed so much, did whale watching from the deck, took a walk with S and dog on the beach, slept like a baby to the sound of crashing waves....wonderful!!!
While there, H asked for pics, I sent them, and he thanked me. I also did some texting with a new friend. I found myself feeling a little....bothered? Not sure if that is the right word....I wanted to just spend this time with my son. I realised again that maybe I just don't have time for anyone else right now. IDK, seems this is S time. He will grow and be off in his own life, then I can venture out. Yes it's lonely at times, yes I could really use some help, but it's ok. He remains my priority and focus.
Last night my best friend took me out to dinner. After, she wanted me to go back home with her. I hesitate as her H and her always fight! I can't stand it! And sure enough, they got into it, my cue to leave. I will take being alone over a relationship like that any day. And she is one of the biggest pushers for me to meet someone!
Back home now and it feels good. I feel rejuvenated and ready to get back into routine. I hit some more projects, one of them to box up more of H stuff. I have 3 full boxes, all labeled with his name and up on a shelf. While putting things away, I found a card I had given H, a list of all the things I loved so much about him. Funny enough, it brought feelings of happiness, not sadness. I remembered and felt those things, they were real, and how lucky I am to have felt that kind of love! I placed it right on top in one of his boxes.
Today I have devoted to getting rid of the negative energy I have been around this week, and bringing myself into a positive place. Eating healthy, exercise and yoga always do the trick. I am so grateful for what I have, and the good and love around me SO outweighs the bad. Sometimes we need a little reminder of that!
I am pretty confident in saying that the story of H and I is over. I came here with such high hopes that H and I could overcome this, but as we all know, things don't always work out the way you hope. That can be a good thing! It may mean this chapter was a learning experience for what lies ahead....that is what I choose to believe.
Trust in the process, keep an open heart and mind, believe in yourself!
M
Happy Belated Birthday!
Sounds like you and your son had a great time away. The next you are on vacation w/your son, why not take photos, but don't send them to your h while you are away, but rather send them to him once you are home. That way he will miss you and your son more and be even more curious as to what you are doing.
As for him giving you gifts for the holidays, it might be time to think about curtailing some of the "giving" that you do. Now, if you want to give your son a little bit of money to buy something for his father, that's okay...but I wouldn't go over board w/the purchases.
Just my two cents.
Hang in there!
Thank you Job! I agree about the gift giving. Let me be clear, I did not expect anything from H. I did think he would help S out, to help in teaching him how to be thoughtful, but then there I go with expectations of H, a man who has become completely self absorbed.
S is 10, I suppose at his age it should come from his own heart, he is getting older now. He did make a special moment when I pulled out a mini birthday cake at the beach house. I lit a candle, he exclaimed Happy Birthday, make a wish!
I guess I am still adjusting. I too have been pulling back more than ever with H, so it's natural he would too.
I was just in my backyard and noticed the back deck for the boat is gone. I have been wondering when that would disappear now that he brought the boat to his house.....He must have come when we were away. I wonder if he came in the house too. It's just SO CREEPY. I feel weirded out. How did I ever fall for someone who has to sneak to the house that way? He couldn't just say something? I wonder how he would feel if I did the same? I should go take something from his yard! I am just kidding, giggling here, but seriously, who is this guy????
My first reaction was anger, then spooked, then just plain sad for the person he has become. I would never want to be in his shoes. I won't say anything, don't really care and figured it was coming as I always check to see if it is still there.... I am sure he is enjoying the teenage high of thinking he got away with something
Your h isn't the only one that came sneaking around while you were gone and taking stuff. My xh did that for a few weeks until I caught on and had the locks changed. I probably would have come home to an empty house (no furniture) had I not changed the locks, as his friend had left a message that he had a truck and was willing to help move the furniture out.
They feel so entitled and think that they can do whatever they want w/o consequences. No matter that it's a joint relationship and that you should discuss what goes w/him or not. Oh, they get this little euphoric high for doing stuff like this and trust me, he's waiting for you to say something about it....don't. Take that little high away from him. Let him wonder why you've not mentioned it...but I would suggest that you walk around you home to see if anything else has suddenly vanished.
It's very sad when they do such things. Never in a million years would I have thought my xh would have done the things he did...but he followed the MLC book to the letter.
It is a weird reminder of how much they have changed Job, isn't it? I figure he is waiting for me to say something, so not going to. I did notice, when I came home from my trip, that the signed poster of the band I just saw was on the ground in the garage. I didn't think much of it, I figured it just fell.
Well, if he came in the house, he saw beautiful red and white roses, balloons, birthday cards, new pictures of me, friends and son up, and new house projects completed. It would have been a reminder that life is going on in the home he left without him. Taking the boat deck may have been his passive aggressive reaction.
Good advise to check around the house, I will do so.
I too used to walk in looking to see what was gone
and XH used to take things also
At one point I asked H for his key
It didn't seem appropriate for him to be in our house alone-
I also put another lock on the door
The beach getaway sounded so awesome
Your description made me feel like I was there and how lucky you are to have that!
Have a good weekend!
Great to hear from you! Your vacation sounds perfect!!!
Enjoy the last few weeks of summer.
Happy fall everyone! I love that it is cooling down now. I have not been on the boards in a while but I do lurk around once in a while to check up on you guys.
Not a whole lot to update. H seems to consider me a friend again instead of the enemy. I really do feel he has made some progress in knowing I am not out to get him and I have to say he seems pretty happy. I know they can put on masks but I sense a change in him. He doesn't seem so exhausted or stressed, he seems much more relaxed during drop off and pick up with S and is always friendly with me.
He went through a period of asking over and over to take S and I to a new fancy steak house that opened in town. I really didn't want to go with him and S hates eating out so I passed a few times. Then, funny enough, I went for a birthday dinner for a friend. When I mentioned it while dropping off S with him, he actually asked to go! Lol The birthday friend was one of the friends H dropped so he said he would rather not have him there. Understood and agreed! Anyway, H insisted to still take S and I out to dinner sometime. He said he hadn't had a good steak in a long time. I just kept wondering, doesn't he have anyone else to take?? Where are all his friends now?? We finally went and it was,,,,,,boring. I found it a bit awkward, digging for things to talk about, and even the food wasn't as good as normal. I think it was the company, it's just not the same. But of course S and I thanked him for a nice meal. Oh and I mentioned the boat deck was gone from the backyard and hoped he had taken it and it wasn't stolen? He turned white, stammered a bit, but yes he took it. He actually seemed embarrassed about it.
One night at drop off, the day after the Vegas shootings, S and I just got out of my truck and S came out asking us, guess what he got? He was hiding it behind his back, and I know that look on his face, so right away I told S, it's a weapon. We both jumped behind my truck as H pulls out this machine gun looking thing and starts shooting at us! I yelled at him to stop it. Meanwhile, my Windows were down a crack and sure enough a pellet passed through 2 open windows and shot me in the chin. Not knowing what just hit me, I was furious. I can't even describe how angry, mortified and frustrated I felt. H realised what happened and ran over apologising. He explained they are just gel pellets filled with water. I kept my cool, with S by my side, and scolded H to never ever come out of your house shooting anything like that again. He knows better! I still can't believe he did that! A week later I guess his mom was over and he was showing her his new toy and told her about what happened, apparently she grabbed the gun and shot him. He said it hurt. Ha!
H has been doing a lot of reminiscing. He sends me pics and videos of S and us when he was little. He even made me a CD. As much as I love those memories and times, they also are a painful reminder that we are no longer that family and of how S now has to live his life.
So, where do I see H 4 years post B day?
Still very self absorbed. All talk is always about him.
Still very juvenile mentality. He continues to decorate the outside of his man pad with manly signs, flags, targets and toys.
He seems to have gotten work under control, doesn't seem so stressed.
He seems to very much want a friendship with me.
He rarely gives up any of his time with S and is always open to having him more if needed, but seems to just hang out with him. He doesn't help much with staying on top of school projects or events, buying S clothes or shoes, taking him for haircuts...all that remains my responsibility. Seems he loves having S, but few responsibilities. However he never misses an award ceremony, conference or an open house and will help with anything we ask him to.
Seems to be very happy with his space and himself. I see or hear no sign of remorse or regret for anything that has happened between us.
On to me! I am doing great. I tried the dating thing and have learned that I don't have the time or energy for it and totally accept that in myself. I am 100% sure that all I want right now is to be a mom. And I am Damn good at it! My time will come once S is older to travel, date and explore new things. Right now I am swamped with S, school, work, pets, friends and keeping up my home. And I am OK with that. Rarely am I bored or lonely. I also make sure to take care of and pamper myself with healthy eating, exercise, yoga and a good movie!
I finally took the step to update my kitchen countertops. I love it! I continue to give H any house bills and he pays half with no squabble. I always include him in designs and decisions but he pretty much has let me run with it, which I appreciate.
Life is far from perfect though. I still spin from time to time. I still feel anger every time I have to shuffle S back and forth. I have not forgiven H for his choices. But I have to say, overall, I think H and I are happier these days and that has to be good for S, right? I have a co-worker that is super close with her ex husband. They agreed on doing family trips after the divorce, for the kids, and continue to do so years and years later. They talk all the time and are good friends. It is exactly how I see H and I now and in the future.
Me 4 years post Bday:
Much better acquainted with who I am.
A better mom than ever.
More focused and organized than ever.
WAY less stressed or overwhelmed.
Closer with my S than ever.
Closer with my friends.
Appreciate things on a daily basis.
Kinder and more patient than ever.
Accepting that my marriage is over.
Accepting that H remains a part of my life for my S.
Still have anger and resentments, have not forgiven, but accept things for what they are.
Proud of H and I for both contributing to the amazing little person our son has become.
This experience has me seeing the man I fell in love with in a very different light, along with realizing the traits that are so important to me. A real man is not defined by a title or paycheck. He is a man with integrity, good character and values. He is a fighter, strong and dependable. He unfortunately is not my H and I finally see and accept that. MLC, true colors, or maybe a mix of both. I truly believe we could have gotten through this and been closer then ever. He did not choose that, he chose to put himself first instead of his home, family and marriage. Can I ever understand or get past that? Probably not, but I can accept he made his choice and make the best of it. I can be proud that we are at least able to team up as parents for our S and I hope that never changes.
I hope my post finds you all doing well. I know this is not an easy thing to go through, but the other side does not have to be a bad thing. It is all in perception, in taking the focus from them to you. Feel strong and proud you believed in and stood for your marriage! But also accept that you can't control the outcome. However, you can control YOU and your outcome. Be that person you admire and feel proud of. You can do it
Love you guys! Xxoo
M
I am so glad to read your update.
OMG! I can't believe he brought that gun out and shot it in your direction. He could have put your eye out or much worse. I also can't believe his mother shot him...she should have destroyed the gun...but she may realize he's acting like a child and thought by doing it to him, it would make him realize the damage he did to you. You were very lucky. No matter...he shouldn't have bought the thing and more importantly, shouldn't have been aiming it at someone or to even go further at an animal.
You sound strong and confident. How is your son doing these days? How are the fur babies?
Don't be a stranger...stay in touch.
Great to hear from you M ... solid as a rock as always.
One question ... no D talk or action from either side?
Hi MLeigh, glad to read an update from you and pleased that you are doing well. I loved your list of 4 years after BD - so many positive things. And it sounds as though your H is making some progress too..
I understand what you write about forgiveness & I struggle with this too. I accept what has happened, but I do find it hard to fully let things go, and I would still like to see some regret (or at least acknowledgement that it was an awful thing to do) from XH.
Glad you are thriving though - cope, survive, thrive...good for you.
Xxx
Hi Job! The verdict about H and his toy was that he was NOT thinking. He has a very juvenile mentality these days. I do believe he felt really bad and told me he was grateful I had sunglasses on because yes, he could have hurt me, or worse, could have hurt S. Really stupid move on his part.
S is doing great. Still straight A's. Still loves his long shoulder length wispy bangs hair. Still a sweetheart. He continues to get closer with H so the back and forth seems to be easier on him.
Fur babies are great too! My dog and cat bring us so much comfort and laughs.
I hope all is well with you Job.
Hi Cali, my fellow rock! No mention of D from other side. Still not sure what holds him back. For me, it's just more convenient this way. Might be the same for him? My guess is that will all change when one of us get someone special in our lives. In fact I think that will change ALOT of things.
Hey Sotto, always good to hear from you. Acceptance is definitely different than forgiveness, but it sure has set me free quite a bit and certainly helps with detachment.
My H seems to be very pleased with himself and his choices. He jokes around a lot and is very chipper. Sometimes I find it really annoying, and sometimes it stings. Then I feel bad that I don't want him to be happy....it's a weird thing. I may feel different if he at least showed some sort of remorse....but who knows. All I know is that I would not want to be his face in the mirror. Our S is the 1 and only reason I put it all aside.
Take care Sotto
xxoo
missed you round these parts M!!! So glad for an update.
Re: the pellet gun, ???? what a bonehead move. Glad you were relatively unscathed.
I am so happy to read how well you're doing. Pls pop in when you can - I miss you! xoxoxo
Glad you are okay from the pellet gun. Talk about bad decision making skills. Geez.
So great to hear an update from you!
Happy Thanksgiving everyone. I am here to catch up on some threads and wanted to give a quick post for myself.
H came over on Thanksgiving. He spent an hour making mashed potatoes while I made the Prime Rib, salad, spaghetti and garlic bread. I also shopped for and bought everything, then was left to clean it all up. Needless to say, I was feeling a bit angered and taken advantage of the days after.
My anger has been bubbling, not just Thanksgiving but all of it. I was able to release it by writing it all down and burning the letter. I also had a nice talk with a friend. I was able to express everything, and after, she asked me, why do you do this to yourself M? You don't have to do the holidays together. I told her I do it for S. It's either this or miss out on holidays with him being shuffled around, and that is worse to me.
So we chatted and she suggested that if I keep doing this, I can change it in that we all pitch in for the whole process, shopping, cooking, cleaning, all together so it's not all on me. That way everyone would also feel good to pitch in. We can come together for that day, as a family, so S can have the experience and memories that I want him to have.
I brought it up with H today at drop off. First I questioned if he wanted the same as me for holidays and he said yes. Then I suggested, with the upcoming ones coming, that we all pitch in and contribute to the day together, to at least show S what a family should be. I guess the way I said it made him a bit defensive. He felt I was blaming him for how things are. So I asked him, is this what you want? He said of course not, but he doesn't know what else to do.
He said he could move back but that wouldn't fix things. I agreed. He took us back to the lovely past of our failed relationship, and how he was ignored and how unhappy he was....I validated and asked him, why do you think I was so withdrawn and distant? He said he didn't know. I said exactly, you never bothered to find out, up to this day, what was going on with me. It's all you, you, you and still is H. I told him in a healthy relationship there would have been more communication and support, but unfortunately we did not do that. Instead I shut down and he bailed.
Well, that set him off again. That I always say it's all his fault. I answered I don't think that, but I do feel he took it to a whole other level that changed a fixable relationship into one I don't imagine having a happy ending. So it's not that I blame him, it's that I am angry at the hurtful choices he made and still have not ever gotten an apology for when I, on the other hand, have owned up to my mistakes and have apologised several times. I told him, H, I do hope someday we can hash this all out instead of sweeping it under the rug so that we can both be able to fully move on with our lives.
He said so where does that leave us, what should we do, do we file for divorce? I told him, that's his choice to make and not something I will do unless I absolutely have to because this wasn't my choice...divorce was never my choice. He got upset and said why is this up to me? You think I wanted this? It just happened to turn out this way. So I asked him, what holds you back from filing? Why haven't you?
He says he doesn't file because of S. That he knows he will be screwed in this situation and will lose a ton of money. He added that it seems to work ok the way things are. He then added that I am smart in not filing because the longer this goes the better off I will be, and that he has people warning him all the time the longer he waits the worse it will be. But He said for him, it's not about the money, it's about keeping things calm for S.
I said yes, it works for now, but you know that will all change, right? Once we sit down at a table and start splitting things, once we have new partners in our life and start blending that in, everything will change.
He freaked, started asking should he get a lawyer? He was shouting Oh my god all the money wasted for that, why wouldn't I want to keep things calm for S?. He was panicking, taking his hat on and off, pulling at his shirt...so I went to him, took his hand and said whoa H, calm down, I am not out to get you. I have no intention of trying to hurt you. I told him you are my son's dad, I will always have your back and I will always be here for you. We have a bond upstairs (S) that no one will ever break or replace. We, in a sense, will always be family. I am just saying that I don't believe it will always be so friendly, that things will change.
He calmed down and said he feels the same for me. I told him, look H, I only wanted to talk about the holidays and suggest a way to make them better. I told him the holidays are hard for me, a grim reminder of where we are. He said him too. I said it's not easy for me to open my home to him, but I do it for S and am willing to put my feelings aside so that we can all enjoy our get togethers. He just looked down at the ground.
I picked a weed, we were sitting on the front steps, and I walked it over to the trash. I turned around and he had followed me. He opened up his arms and hugged me, I hugged back and we both held it there. He said he was sorry for his part in this and things done. I squeezed him and said thank you for that.
So, several times through out the conversation, he said he doesn't know what else to do. How annoying is that!? How about you should have fought for your marriage? Made an effort instead of running?? I just told him, that's for you to figure out H. And that I hope you are able to figure it out. I told him I don't have your answers and other times I just stayed quiet.
I also brought up that he mentioned moving back a few times and asked him, is that what you want? He said, well I don't want to throw $2500 a month away, I don't want to be away from my son, I don't want to be living my life this way, but I don't know what else to do. He said you have this beautiful house, you have son more than me, you live a block away from work and his school, you have it made and seem happier than ever. I said H, you didn't answer my question. He hesitated and said he never wanted things to end up this way, but they did and he doesn't think moving back would fix things. And again, he doesn't know what else to do.
Another reminder to us all, they are not living the high life they may portray. I saw a lot of pain, guilt and unhappiness in my H during this talk. A big difference from his normal chipper self.
And although the talk doesn't really change anything, it felt good to ask some questions, to express myself, and to finally get an apology. As you all know, I have really needed that.
Thanks for reading and wishing you all well.
Want to add, I do wish I had clarified to H that I don't blame him for what happened to us but I do blame him for giving up on us because I was still willing to fight for us. That would be the blame and disappointment he hears in my remarks to him. That is something I will just need to work through.
Oh well, not sure it would make any difference but maybe I will get that out there to him too.
M
Wow ... quite the Holidaze there. Your MLCr has always been an odd duck in regards to the norm. Low energy which also equates to little/no movement luckily you are a very down to earth kinda gal and you have not pushed him till he needs a bit of a nudge just like you did here.
This time of year is tough, I know for me it bugs seeing the MLCrs all chipper and bouncing around given all the destruction ... but as you noticed underneath all that is a massive amount of guilt and remorse I am thankful I do not have hanging over my head and with the holidays its a silent reminder for all those involved ... this time of year has a way of getting a few of those emotions to bubble up to the top not only for us but for the MLCr as well.
Reading along it does jump out how he seems to be gravitating about the moving back thing ... the roadblock he has is that it would not fix anything. I would personally remind him nothing can be fixed by ignoring it and sweeping it under the rug which he historically has been very good at ... but MLCrs also are very timid especially when its being called out/judged and I would suspect they know how much hurt they have caused but have no idea how to fix it nor if they even want to go through all that, so he has a bit of baking still to do but he does seem to be feeling the tug of the family unit which leads me to my next question.
M ... what do YOU want? Either way its going to be hard and alot of work involved. I am at a point even if the MLCr dropped all and said all the right things I am not so sure I would be open to it anymore, partly just because I would not believe it but also partly because I have been solo for so long and being married and living as a family at this point would just feel so weird ... I worry that being alone for so long I have come to accept nothing else. Food for thought and I am interested in how/where you are at with all this.
You rock, I think you have handled this so well ... just prooding you for your perspective.
So I did end up letting H know that I do blame him for giving up. He let me know that he fought for us while I was withdrawn and distant. He says he fought as well as he could and stuck it out for several years. By the time I started waking up and realizing it was time to shape up, it was too late and he just didnt have any fight left. So basically, we stood for our marriages at different times and unfortunately while we were in different places.
I can't argue with that, he is right. It actually brings me some peace to know and remind me that there was a time that he really did care.
Which brings me to think.... you have two people who are in love. Unfortunately, as circumstances change, they change and grow apart. No longer in love, no attraction, no relationship. All they see in each other is a person who hurt them deeply.
If you take these same two people, and they start to treat each other with kindness, respect, attention and make the other their priority...can they begin to see each other differently? Can feelings and attraction grow back? Is love a choice?
Which brings me to you Cali, I still am not sure what I want in regards to H. I would love for things to work out, but he would need to be less selfish, accept me for me, let me be the mom I love to be, and be totally honest and open. All things I really don't see happening.
Then I try to picture him back home and I get a sinking feeling in my stomach. I too have grown to love my space, although I don't want it forever, I am not ready to have H in it.
What I know for sure is I want to be happy, which I have grown to be.
Always love to hear from you Cali, thank you for checking in.
M
I am glad to see that you both have laid some cards on the table. The way I see it, this is a start towards (maybe) a new beginning. It's never too late to start anew.
My question to you is...do you still love the man? I want you to think about that for a while and come back and post.
If you were to begin a new relationship w/your h, what would you like to see him bring to the table, i.e., qualities. What attracted you to him in the first place?
In my own opinion, from all of your postings, I personally think your marriage could be saved....but you both would need to come to the table w/the understanding that you need to discuss the entire relationship and not just when you were distant and his crisis. Both of you would need to look at the entire relationship and begin working on those things that could be repaired. Once that begins, I would suggest that you two date for a while. That means just the two of you, son would need a sitter. The focus must be on the two of you. If, after a while, you both discover that too much time and distance has taken place, then you both can decide what to do about the marriage.
You both will not truly know what you want if you don't start talking and doing things as a couple.
mleigh, this is my 2 cents for the day.
Hi M, checking in
If you take these same two people, and they start to treat each other with kindness, respect, attention and make the other their priority...can they begin to see each other differently? Can feelings and attraction grow back? Is love a choice?
This jumped out at me, particularly your final question: is love a choice. Yes. Love is a choice. Every day we wake up and we have a choice to actively foster love or to actively foster something else. This is a big one for me, and I've struggled a lot with the fact that exh woke up every day and deliberately fostered resentment and anger rather than love. The more he obsessed about his anger and resentment, the more it festered, leaving no room for love.
I think the answer to all these questions is yes. But it's as Job said and takes diligence and commitment and time.
Let's take a step back here. We aren't talking about him moving back in tomorrow, right? Of course you aren't feeling like you want to share your space. Why would you? I would imagine that after some amount of time of treating each other with kindness, respect and attention and doing the work, that might change. It may not, but you won't know until you try. So I wouldn't get hung up on not feeling it now. Rather I would ask, do you want to take a step towards getting to know your exh again as a man rather than merely as son's father?
I hope this helps. xoxoxoxo
So nice to hear an update Mleigh.
What stands out to me, is that he keeps saying you seem so happy without him. This is something I am curious about. I wonder what the root of this is?
And it was interesting to see him freak out over the fact that maybe you were thinking d.
He hasn't moved on much either. He seems stuck.
Good to hear from you. You sound strong and happy.
ok Job. I read your post and really gave this some thought. Your question is not an easy one. I have built a wall between me and H to protect myself. Even in thought, I keep myself from thinking of reconciliation as it seems so far from reach at this point. So one night I was able to let my walls down briefly, to really let myself feel, and this is what I came up with:
Yes I love H. I don't know what this pull is that I have to save my marriage, but it's there....loyalty, values, faith...If I could work magic, I would want him to come to me saying he wants to try to fix this mess. I have never stopped wanting to try, I have just let those thoughts go as it's been 4 years since this all started.
If that magic never happens, I want us to go our separate ways peacefully and I hope for him to regret that choice for every lasting day he has.
I figure either way I will be just fine. Now, if I go by gut that is a whole different thing. I worry H is not good for me, but most of those reasons are mostly fixable. I also think of the gift I have been given, the freedom to find someone who I am much more compatible with.
There is no simple answer here, so I choose happiness and to live my life for me and S. Every day I wake up hopeful for a new day, and every night I give thanks for what I am grateful for. I have grown so much, not sure if H can or ever could truly fit in our world.
Hi Bttrfly and Hawho. Bttrfly, the man I see today is no longer the man I was attracted to. I still feel a pull to him, but just like you said, I think every day that his choice continues to be do nothing. I am a fighter, he is a runner, not a good match. I have a very open mind though, so if I was to see positive changes in him, then sure, I would love to get to know him again.
HW, he is SO stuck! 4 years of stuck! I may be starting to see some signs of movement though, not sure if that or the holiday blues. We shall see.
So I threw the food for thought out there to H, asking about if love is a choice and if it's possible for feelings to grow back. No preaching to him, just honest questions with no expectations of a reply or response. I too have been thinking about this myself a great deal.
I put up my Christmas lights today and am in full Christmas force! S and I love this time of year. It's my weekend with S, H texted today asking to come visit with S. I told him sure. We ended up watching one of the recent Star Wars movies and munching on popcorn. The movie was great and we all enjoyed the time. H actually put his phone aside and we had his full attention for the entire 2 hour movie. That is progress! Lol
Stay strong everyone. The holidays tend to bring so much emotion and confusion from all sides. Wishing you all strength, love, hope and peace
M
Your response was very honest and I'm glad you took some time to think about my question. I knew it wasn't going to be an easy one.
I know you love your h and you believe strongly in your marriage vows. I liked your response about going your separate ways peacefully. If you two opt to go your separate ways, he will think about you, the marriage and as a family for the rest of his life.
In my opinion, he's been testing the waters a bit and trying to convince himself that you are far happier w/o him in your life. Some of them say this quite often, especially once they return home and begin working on the new marriage. I'm not going to get your hopes up w/my next comment, but I can't help but wonder if he's been thinking about "home and what all it entails". Right now, he's still wearing rose colored glasses and doesn't think anything will change, so he's talking out loud and wanting to get an idea where your mind is at the moment.
We don't realize it, but they all have given us a gift of writing a new chapter in our loves, the freedom to do whatever it is we want to do, to meet new people, find new jobs and relocate. The gift of time works in mysterious ways...but the true key is in how we utilize that time. Mleigh, you've come such a long way and your h has a lot of catching up to do. You've changed in many ways and yet, he's still stuck back in high school and maybe trying to grow up...but his clock is still moving ever so slowly and it's going to be a while yet for him.
I think you are a very wise woman to choose happiness and to live your life for you and your son. You have so much to be proud of. As I mentioned above, you've become even stronger, more independent and self assured. You have a beautiful son who adores you and just think, when you smile, the world smiles w/you. The time will come when a decision will need to be made about your marriage, but I don't think it's today, tomorrow or next month. When the time is right to decide...you will know.
Hi guys,
I did some more talking with H and have reached a new place for me. I am keeping this quiet for the most part but know I can share with you guys and be understood.
Last weekend was S night with H. Within 1/2 hour of dropping S off, H texted that he was invited to a bbq and wondered if we could meet up to get Xmas trees, then have S come home with me. I had no plans other than watching movies alone, and knowing S would way rather be home with me, I agreed but let H know I had plans the next day, assuming he understood that meant he needs to have S his normal time on Sunday. Of course he did not understand that, and to make a long story short, S spent the day at a friend's house with everyone thinking H would pick him up but H. H of course blamed that on me, S and the friends mom.
I spent that day at the beach with my friend. It was such a beautiful December beach day in California!! At one point we were sitting watching the waves, talking about our futures, things we hope for, retirement....it became very clear to me that H no longer fits in my plans. I told friend, if I could continue to live my life the way I do, and no longer be married to H, I would do it in a heartbeat. And it hit me again, why can't I do that? I realised I do not want to spend the coming year in limbo land, with another ignored anniversary, Mothers Day and birthday. The future I want does not have that! I want to open a new door for myself, and that entails movement, one way or the other.
That night I picked up S and went home. It was an angry night of texting back and forth between H and I over the misunderstanding of the day. I got ugly in letting him know I am sick of his stupid choices and that he should remember that his missing out on time with S, his living in a s?1t hole and failed marriage are all a reflection of his selfish choices. It was exhausting and I am not proud of how angry I was or some of the things I said.
That night I searched for the reasons of why I am still so angry and all I can figure is it comes from being married to a man who does not want to be married to me. I think I can't help having some sort of expectation with that piece of paper.
The next night I took S to H and asked H for a few quick minutes of his time. I started by apologizing for getting so angry with him over the misunderstanding. He was defensive and explained his reasoning for thinking the way he did, he thought when I said I had plans, that those plans were with S. which I called out BS since I had let him know I was going over the hill for the day and that S was at his buddies for pick up.
I further explained where I believe the root of my anger comes from, being stuck in a marriage that is not moving one way or another, and that it's time to change that. I told him you have 2 choices, agree to counseling to see if we have any chance of saving our family, or proceeding to begin paperwork for a dissolution of our marriage.
He scoffed and said that was not fair to put him on the spot, especially when he was still angry at me. I said H, I am not putting you on the spot, you have had 4 years to figure this out. I told him a new year is around the corner and I will not live it like this, and I will not have another ignored anniversary, Mothers Day or birthday. I told him I will not continue to be married to a man who treats me or our marriage this way, and it may just be a piece of paper to him, but for me it's more than that and I am tired of feeling so angry at him.
He told me, based on things you said last night, you don't even like me. He said I seem way happier without him. He asked do you really believe you could have feelings for me again? He said he doesn't like how I treat S as a friend, I have no rules. I said, so is that your choice? He continued to spin in circles, blame blame blame, all about me.
I stayed quiet and just listened to the same old story. When he was done, I just said, so is that your choice? Why haven't you just filed by now if you so truly believe we could never work this out? Why would you put us all through this? He said he didn't want to rush things, that he was seeing what would happen and it's been up and down, up and down, and we always end up back here.
I told him, well that's not fair because I haven't been treating you like someone committed to working things out with me, I have been treating you like a man who no longer wants me, but making the best of it for our S. You have never said different, so that is unfair to me. He said we have talked about it, we were going to try dating, and nothing ever happens. I exclaimed, you never asked me out!!! All BS, so much BS. So I told him H, I am a fighter, I don't give up, and I don't know if there is anything left or enough to save us, but I would certainly give it a try. But if you don't want that, we go to option 2. He just couldn't say it, he just spins his excuses, so I finally cut him off and went on to our next step, which I had already figured we would do.
I told H we have 3 choices now. We sit down together, go over how we want to live, split up assets together. If we are able to do that, we can save tons of money by only paying someone to prepare and file the paperwork for us. Choice 2 is mediation and a few thousand dollars each. Choice 3 is attorneys, getting ugly and lots of money. Which do you want?
He said either way he is screwed. I said H, no one wins in divorce, we will all be screwed.
He said, what do we do about the house? I told him all I ask is for you to think of the house as an investment and allow S and I to live there until he completes high school. Then we can decide to buy out or sell and split the equity. He said that was no problem and already what he wanted for S. We discussed getting everything in writing to protect ourselves and agreed we should be able to do this ourselves.
He seemed sad, I still get the feeling he isn't sure what to do, but guys, do you understand how tired of his mixed messages and uncertainty I am? The man has no spine, drive, passion or motivation with something so important. This would go on for years. And I would continue to get angrier and angrier with him. In fact, this is how he is. In looking back, he has always been this way, just along for the ride, unable to make decisions unless it was to buy himself a toy of course. Marriage, my suggestion. Child, my suggestion. Buying house, my suggestion. Parties, vacations, decorating, going out with friends, my planning and suggestions. I think it's just the way he is.
My fellow male co-worker says he knows a lot of men who want there wives to tell them what to do, to make all the choices. He, along with a few other friends, have told me they believe H wants me to decide this and tell him what to do. They also think he believes I don't like him or want to be with him.
Whatever it is that H feels or thinks, the thing is, I don't want to be in a relationship where I make all the decisions. I want more than that from someone. I want to feel more equal, than like someone who carries the load. I already learned that does not work for me. And if after 4 years of talks and being around me, if H really believes I don't love him or want this to work, then something just isn't right with us, or I am doing something wrong, and it's best to end this. I don't want a future of wondering if he knows how much I love him!
So I am doing my research and gathering the paperwork to proceed with divorce. I don't know if this is the answer for me but I am going to move forward with it. If at anytime it starts feeling wrong, I will grant myself permission to step back and rethink it. I think we all know it's all on me, H will just be waiting for direction.
Thanks for listening. Our holidays are going on as planned and I am ready and looking forward to a nice time. Most of all, I am looking forward to a new year with changes. One way or a other, something has to change.
Wishing you all a happy holiday season.
M
Job, you hit it on the nose. I do agree that H believes I am better off without him. That may come from him knowing he won't change. He said himself, he can never be the man I want him to be. I am believing this may be for the best, for both of us. We both deserve to have someone who loves us for who we are. Everyone does, right?
It's too bad we have not been able to make the changes we both needed to see in each other. I don't like the dislike I feel for him, or feel from him. As against divorce as I am, I wonder if it sometimes is the best thing.
Sit quietly and allow the answers to come to you. You shouldn't make important decisions when you are angry, hurt or just plain disappointed. You will know what to do after the holidays. The holidays are very emotionally charged for all of us and that's why you will know more about how you feel after the holidays. You will know when you are done and when to proceed forward w/a divorce or remain as you are.
Hi Job. I honestly don't think this decision is coming from a moment of anger. I know in the past I had a bad habit of reacting to anger, but this has been in my thoughts for a while now.
I don't think H and I are good for each other. I think too much has happened and too much time has passed. I think I need to fully cut ties and let go to fully move on. He keeps me stuck with limbo, as hard as I fight that.
I have not come to this lightly. It's been a week since we talked, I cry every day and still mourn what we had and what's happening. I am not eating like normal and am already losing weight. I know this is going to be very painful and am not fooling myself to believe the grass is greener. I just don't want to live like this anymore and I think it's time to open up new possibilities for myself. By staying married I feel I am holding myself back by holding onto hope. I am not seeing that as a healthy choice.
I promise to let the holidays pass and take it slow. I promise not to rush into anything. I also promise to keep my eyes and ears open with H, because this would be the time to speak up if this isn't what he, or even myself, wants. But something has to change.
Mleigh - I just want to say that I admire you very much. Whatever decision you make, you should be so very proud of yourself. I have watched you for years now and you are a role model in so many ways. You have stood (for YEARS!) but not stood still. I have admired the way you have retained positivity vs. getting lost in all the negativity this can bring to our lives.
Whatever decision you make, please know that you are a success story. Surviving and thriving through this nightmare is no easy feat.
((((I am sending you much deserved positive karma for 2018.)))))
Thank you HW. That is a huge compliment from someone I continue to admire so much!
I will begin a new thread with an update soon.
Hugs back ((((HW))))
M
I know we are over the limit on posts but {{{{{{{MLeigh}}}}}}}
try to at least have a protein smoothie a day if you can and to stay hydrated ..
try to enjoy the holiday. let yourself grieve and know it's ok and not forever, just the next step in the process. wish i was there to give you a hug and a cup of tea xoxoxo
I am in your corner...whatever you opt to do, I'm behind you all of the way.
I want you, your son and fur babies to have a very Happy and Merry Christmas. The new year is right around the corner and I have this feeling that there will be a new blank page in your life's book for you to begin writing the next chapter.
Whatever you decide to do, you are going to be just fine. You've fought hard to maintain a good relationship w/your h, but he's stuck and can't see the light of day for those darkened rose colored glasses. For this, I am so sorry. He's a fool that doesn't even realize what he had and may lose in the next year or so.
New Thread:
Bye bye limbo -- it's time for a change