So got my hopes up for nothing. The MC said she send to want to go back to MC, but once I got home she hemmed me up saying that we agree to disagree on the impending D, but she wanted to know if I was going to fight her in court. She is serving me soon it seems, but states that there are no demands in the papers. Saying that we'd agree on everything. Definitely not the woman I once loved. Kept saying that this is what's best and that one day I will see. She says she has to finally go with her feelings and be selfish for once.
Sorry to hear that your wife is set on a D SBJ. My H also expects us to D one day, but since I told him I am not going to file we have to actually wait two years after a separation for an "amicable" divorce (if we both agree), or I can even refuse to sign and then he can "automatically" get it after five years. Horrible situation, but it was the only way I could think of in order to buy myself some time. I'm not advising you to do the same, I don't know if refusing a D for a period of time will help at all, I guess I'm just hoping that he might be nearer the end of his crisis by then and something could change?
My H told me the same thing, he wants to do his own thing, he doesn't want to be a "yes man" any more. So sorry you are in this situation
Take care
This emotional roller coaster really and truly [censored]. Totally selfish at the moment and doesn't seem to really care how this will affect everyone involved. I'm worried about it all...her, kids, extended family, friends, not to mention our business and finances...she thinks that it will all be rosy and everything will work out great. She thinks that we can still be friends after D. I think that is delusional.
I guess the hard reality is that this side of her existed before and was inside somewhere, but this MLC just brought it to the surface.
The emotional rollercoaster does ... fill in the blank. So rember that Detach portion of DBing? Think thats just a suggestion or do you think its a valuable tool that can be used to keep yourself balanced?
I heard many of the same lines you have posted ... and add in a good number of others. I will let you in on a little secret, everytime she brought up D I simply would say "I'm sorry you feel that way, D is not what I want" I then walked. 3 years later I am still not divorced but it has finally been filed. (And honestly its ok.... I believe she needs this to get through her journey)
Thing is you have to understand, its not really about you, she is in crisis and in her mind she is desperate to stop the pain and she feels trapped, the only way out as far as she is concerned is to flee and you are the roadblock in the way of that. That's how they see it at this point. You have to stop grasping ahold of her or she will run faster and harder. Your sitch is relitively new and its not an easy thing, the longer I have been at this the more I have realized its really not so much about the MLCr and their journey... its more about the LBS and our journey, things we all need to look at and address and I would give you the best advice I can here and tell you the faster you start working on you, the better off you will be but by saying that I also know you will continue to flop around like a fish before you hit a point where you are ready to do the work ... its simply the evolution of things for us.
I will leave you with this ... the only thing that creates true change is pain. When that pain becomes strong enough to a point one just can no longer cope, true change will happen. You have to look at yourself and decide when you would like to start the changes and stop being in pain.
SBJ,
We must be married to the same person. After my wife told me she wanted a divorce, she wanted out immediately. I convinced her to talk to a MC. Tomorrow will be our third session but I sense that her willingness to keep going will soon come to an end.
Someone has to do a psychological study on how someone can go from loving wife to hating her husband in 48 hours. My wife was sending me love notes two days before she asked for a divorce. It boggles the mind.
Does your wife have her post-divorce life set up yet or is she winging it right now?
Cali,
When told your wife that you didn't want a divorce and walked out, what did she do?
CaliGuy...I haven't even put in all of the lines she has given me. The best yet is, "One of these days you will agree that this is the best thing for us". What a crock of _____!
I understand that yours was prolonged a bit, but my W wants our now and thinks that life will be great/easy. Totally not realistic.
I tried the walk away thing last night and she kept following me. She cornered me in the bathroom and I went to the kitchen. She came into the kitchen so I went into the garage. She came out to the garage and I finally said I was taking a walk. The entire time she was wanting me to agree with her that we should make everything easy and agreeable for our kids sake.
As for PAIN...I'm there. I can't believe someone in their right mind would treat someone they loved the way she is treating me. That being said...I understand that she is not in her right mind right now.
msp710...as for her Post-D life I don't really know. I think she has looked for places to live. She thinks that everything will remain the same financially. We have a college student and 2 kids in private school. We have discussed finances, but she says that is no reason to stay married. HAHA! I'm not saying it is either...I love my wife and don't want the D to happen. Some things are out of our control.
God bless you guys for the encouragement.
Cali,
When told your wife that you didn't want a divorce and walked out, what did she do?
I do not know ... I didn't stand there waiting for a reaction nor a reply. I simply stated what I did not want, I never lifted a pinkie to help her with the D process, if there was a mediation apt I arrived early, happy and treated it as a business meeting removing all emotions which honestly sent her for a loop several times .... as she was reeling with guilt there I was making small talk with the people in the lobby.
To this day I have not stood in the way of the D, but I have not helped push things along either, and financially, emotionally it would have probably been beneficial for me to do so but I will never allow her to use me as the 'out' ... My stance on this if she wants it she will have to do all the work ... I will comply but never agree and she knows this. I came to the realization that she would do as she would do but I would make it known this was not my idea, not what I wanted but would not stop her pursuit for happiness where ever she felt that would be.
CaliGuy...I haven't even put in all of the lines she has given me. The best yet is, "One of these days you will agree that this is the best thing for us". What a crock of _____!
I understand that yours was prolonged a bit, but my W wants our now and thinks that life will be great/easy. Totally not realistic.
Mine did too ... the first attempt was the $150 Divorce your hubby.com angle. Now realize I was dealing with this for 10 months before I could spell DB. I did learn however when I said , ok if this is what you want fine, but its not what I want it changed things and confused her. This was inline with the fact I was working out, looking good, dressing good GALing/180's/PMA and all that. She would then flounder back and forth trying to convince herself and M D was for the best for us both to 'be happy'
I made it clear, I was not going to be her buddy, we would co-parent, I would not rescue her (This was tough as I am a chronic fixer).
I tried the walk away thing last night and she kept following me. She cornered me in the bathroom and I went to the kitchen. She came into the kitchen so I went into the garage. She came out to the garage and I finally said I was taking a walk. The entire time she was wanting me to agree with her that we should make everything easy and agreeable for our kids sake.
She is selling you on that dream she has painted in her head ... you are not buying. Keep up that tactic and she will learn its futile and you are not going to be swayed. She needs you onboard so she can share the guilt with you.
As for PAIN...I'm there. I can't believe someone in their right mind would treat someone they loved the way she is treating me. That being said...I understand that she is not in her right mind right now.
I learned a phrase that helped with the spew/monster sessions.
Hurt people hurt people
Your German Sheppard gets run over in the street, you rush to help him and he bites you. He is hurt badly and confused, at that time he is just trying to survive, the MLCr is similar ... they will say and do things to get YOU to end the M, its the trick to get out of it all without the guilt.
I am having trouble because she says the papers are coming, so now I'm on guard as to when.
I am also having a hard time because we are suppose to all be going on a family vaca with her entire family over the T-day Holiday. Airfare and Trip is already paid for...if I go, I don't know if I could truly be happy seeing her every day for 9 days while she is in this state. Just trying to see if I could stay strong and have that "what ever" attitude the entire time so that my kids and I could have fun.
I am having trouble because she says the papers are coming, so now I'm on guard as to when.
I am also having a hard time because we are suppose to all be going on a family vaca with her entire family over the T-day Holiday. Airfare and Trip is already paid for...if I go, I don't know if I could truly be happy seeing her every day for 9 days while she is in this state. Just trying to see if I could stay strong and have that "what ever" attitude the entire time so that my kids and I could have fun.
You are talking to the poster-boy of how to detach poorly. You have only been at this a few weeks, if detaching were that easy one would question the commitment you had in the first place right? So go easy on yourself you are in the thick of it all and all the emotions that come with it.
Holidays are the tricky part and one that created a touch and go with my sitch one that I hoped would be a reconciliation but turned out she has much more work to do ... my point is the holidays will spark emotions in you and in her and you are in for a rough couple months. That said .... you have this place and people who get it while she is all sorts of jacked up.
I guess I just don't want to rock my kids any more than they will already be if she files before Thanksgiving...which it seems she might. She has already told our oldest two kids that we are in counseling, but my 10 yo has no clue. I told her that this is her D and she should be the one to tell them all that she wants this, but that dad doesn't and wanted to work things out. I'm not sure, but I feel in the back of my mind that she is trying to rush things so that she can move on to or into another relationship...that is my paranoid outlook anyway.
Then I will have to figure out:
1. Do I ask her to move out?
2. Do I go to the Happiest Place on Earth with her entire fam for 9 days of FUN? With this hanging over our head!!!
3. and the questions just keep coming...
SBJ
Be careful when it comes to the kids, they already know something isnt right with mom and dad, the dangers I have seen here is when they are used as a sword or a shield and honestly they should be no where near the battleground .... this may fall squarely on your shoulders.
"1. Do I ask her to move out?"
Do you want her out? This is only a question you can answer I would advise like any move, do not just do something to get a reaction or try to force movement aka "snap her out of it" it will likely result in something you do not want.
Live in MLCrs seem to be more difficult than ones who run and find their own place, I had the later so I can not really relate to the live in ones.
"2. Do I go to the Happiest Place on Earth with her entire fam for 9 days of FUN? With this hanging over our head!!!"
Again ... what do you want? Maybe you can go and make it special for the kids, work on changing your focus off her and toward them. (when we focus on something it becomes bigger right?) Again ... search what YOU want and not for a reaction from her ... do this for yourself.
Totally understand and agree. I will try thinking of my kids first in all of this. I will have to cope with all of the crazy stuff the best I can during our trip.
As for the living arrangements....I never want her to leave period.
A wise counselor I worked with often said that separation is dress rehearsal for divorce. Statistics seem to agree.
If your preference is for her to stay in your home, remember this:
It is far easier for her to live with a happy and content spouse than with a depressed and dissatisfied one.
GAL, PMA, Fake it 'til you make it. Oh, and Bust On!
Hi SBJ,
I've been following along but haven't been posting much lately.
I was in a similar situation for the holidays last year. You've got some good advice. Keep db'ing and try to focus on yourself and kids. Here is a summary of what happened to me last year. I didn't know what was going on or much about db'ing, etc. but thankfully I had it together just enough to make sure the kids had good holidays. I'm posting it hoping it helps you know what to possibly expect and it might since most of our Mlc spouses seem to operate from the same script. If you can observe and not get too emotional I think you'll see how lost she is. In hindsight I sure can. She set me up to fail/justify herself the whole time making me uncomfortable then criticizing me for it.
W insisted on going to her friends for Halloween then ignored me the whole time. Her and her friend took the kids trick or treating then brought them back and told me I could take them if I wanted. For thanksgiving we went to her family's. she ignored me the whole time there too, spending most of her time in her parents room, etc (it's a very strange, unhealthy dynamic there). I spent most of my time alone, playing cards with my daughter, or walking dogs. She pretended just enough to try to make things seem normal to her parents.
We went to a Christmas before Christmas night at my family's the week before Christmas. She told me she would get everything together and be ready when I got off work. She didn't do anything, including getting gift exchange gifts and caused us to be 3 hours late. We got there just before everyone was leaving. She avoided being by me as much as she could there. The next week she told me she set up a mediation to get a D. This was a few days before we were supposed to go to her adopted step family's for Christmas. While there she ignored me the whole time again but tried to pretend enough to seem normal (step mil knew something was wrong right off though). She hung out with her much younger step siblings a lot, trying to be cool. If I tried to hang out and have a couple drinks with them she would keep distanced from me and shoot me dirty looks. She made me feel really unwelcome. when she did talk to me she would tell me how cool they and their friends that came over were. Also, starting at Halloween at her friends she always found a way or excuse not to sleep in the same bed as me.
Keep your focus on yourself and kids if you go.
If you don't want her to move out I wouldn't ask her to. From my experience it will get spun into you being controlling and/or be used to justify themselves.
It's kind of funny...we have the perfect relationship when other people are around. It's only when we are alone that things seem totally weird. Others have said that she seems like there is nothing wrong when they speak with her. She says she is able to compartmentalize things and can shut things off and on. It's like Jekyl and Hyde a lot of the time.
She has been the rock that everyone in her family has always leaned on and it seems like she cracked.
Update of the situation. Went to a wedding as a family last night...all seemed normal. As the Priest was saying the homily and officiating the wedding I was wanting nothing more than to grab my W and shake the ____ out of her and say that this is what we signed for all of those years ago...don't you remember. At one point during the service she took my hand and blew me a kiss...we were separated by two of my kids in the pew. She has me on the roller coaster of crazy and is blinded by the crisis.
I hope and pray she comes to her senses before I get too bitter. It's hard to see glimpses of hope and normalcy and then get slapped back to reality all of the time.
Hi SBJ,
you are doing really good-I bet it was very hard to read through that touch and go behavior at the wedding and I dont blame you one bit for wanting to just shake her into reality-but we all know it won't work and will makes things worse
But you are doing your part-being there and showing up
it is a super tough thing to create and pretend while things are so up in the air
The changes you are making and the things you are learning will be you
and your w still can see behind the blur that you are there-
But even our changes can't sop their crises
I recently heard from my xh on a phone message --this was after many years no contact
The point is he was asking me a favor to help him and I did
Still after all this time, he knew I would be there for him and I was-
They can see it-
I guess I am still praying for divine intervention. I guess just because the words during the wedding service made sense to me doesn't mean they will for everyone.
I walk by faith even when I cannot see. 1 Corinthians 5:7 (I believe)
SBJ it sounds like you are doing really well with everything considering your wife is serving you that cocktail of crazy!
I understand how hard it is to have to break the news to the kids, it is something I'm struggling with too. I also want to scream to H that if he wants a D he needs to tell the kids, but everything I read is against that. I hate to appear to agree with "his" D, but I hate hurting my children even more.
It's so hard! I'm sending you strength. I hope you can work something out
The problem I am having is that her entire family is falling apart while she and I are going thru this...one of her sisters is at odds with everyone, her mother is kind of getting in the middle of all three of the sisters and stirring the pot, her oldest sister is an addict that seems to be going back down the wrong path. All of this while the wife is going down the MLC path. She thinks that everyone else is going crazy...haha! She even had 2 of the kids on her side say, "mom, how'd you get to be the only sane one"? I could hardly hold in the laughter.
She told me Thursday night that I should be prepared for the D papers, since they were being prepared. It is crazy how fast things are going...I still feel like I'm in shock. I'm trying to hold it together, but it is difficult.
As for telling the kids once the papers are served...that is what I'm struggling with. Part of me wants to be sitting beside her while she is telling them, just so I can let them all know that this is not a mutual decision, but I am torn as if that is the correct thing to do.
SBJ - personally, I think you should consider being in the room if your w goes to discuss d with your kids. I don't think you can trust that she is going to represent the situation the way you would want it represented for you. I think you want her to own this, but by being out of the room, you may inadvertently be giving her a hall pass.
Post BD when my h was spinning like mad, he told my s (then 9!) that divorce was "no big deal. You just get a piece of paper saying it's all over and it's that simple." He made it sound like it was harder to order a cheeseburger through a drive-thru window.
S was extremely upset. I told him my views on marriage/divorce and also told him to always remember his own commitments once he is a man. It is true, MLCers just want everyone to love their decisions because to them, nothing is more important than their personal happiness.
Crazy as she is, she IS entitled to her (currently crazy) opinion but that does not mean she should be the one narrating the whole story.
I know it's complicated as you are balancing her wants vs. your wants. I certainly am not saying you throw her under the bus because she has the right to make crazy decisions and yet, the truth is you two do differ on this issue. I don't think she should be able to say to the kids that you "both" have decided that this is best and then walk off feeling no culpability.
If you see an IC perhaps he/she can advise? Or maybe others with experience can best advise as it's a delicate balance...
I guess I fear that if I do stand my ground and tell the kids (19,14,9) that this is not something that I want, but that there is nothing more I can do to save our marriage/family, that she will be angry and feel like I am throwing her under the bus. I'm not saying she is vindictive, but Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned...
She told my 19yo that we were in counseling...he took it well and asks her about it, but has not mentioned it to me.
She told my 14yo that we were in counseling and she said that if we did ever get a D that we would just have 2 houses and that the kids would spend a week on/off with each parent. She said my daughters only concern was Christmas. I wasn't there so I cannot say for sure, but I call BS. My daughter has not asked me about it at all.
I believe that the marriage covenant is for life and should not be broken, but my wife is obviously opposed to that now. At one point in her life she was in agreement.
On the CRAZY note...I just found out that my wife removed her phone off of our business account because she is paranoid that people are snooping at her calls and texts. I guess that answers several questions.
What are the thoughts on having a Morality Clause added to your D decree?
W says that she wants to do 50/50 custody and have the kids 1 wk on and 1 wk off. I do not want my youngest 2 kids (19,14,10) exposed to possible strangers staying the night, even though my W says there is not anyone waiting. I feel the same way on my end...I have told myself that I'd give it 2 years to work on myself anyway.
I am just curious on everyone's thoughts...THX
"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned..."
Isn't she the one that scorned you? You seem to be taking on all the responsibility for HER leaving. I totally understand how that is. I think we all felt that way in the beginning. But it keeps you down and doesn't validate you. You're only responsible for what YOU did. Remember all the good things about yourself.
I have merged your two threads together. Please stick to one thread until you've reached 100 postings/replies. You can change your Subject Line at any time within a thread.
No I understand that she is the one doing the walking, but if I add fuel to the fire, would I be making it more difficult to possibly reconcile at a later date...should she come around?
" but if I add fuel to the fire, would I be making it more difficult to possibly reconcile at a later date...should she come around?"
You're trying to predict the future as to what she may or may not do. You're letting HER actions or supposed actions control you. Be your own man again. Do what YOU want to do without fear.
No I understand that she is the one doing the walking, but if I add fuel to the fire, would I be making it more difficult to possibly reconcile at a later date...should she come around?
There is a big difference between adding fuel to the fire and being a doormat. The LBS has to set boundaries with our teens (MLCrs) and hold to those without concern the MLCr is going to walk/run away. These are non-negotiable and simply just the way we will not tolerate being treated. Notice this is not how to control that other person, its not punitive, its simply a refusal to be disrespected on a basic human level and is paving the way to be respected regardless of the outcome.
As far as the "Morality Clause" I would be careful there. I am not sure what state you are in but that could be construed as implying she is having an A .... she may very well be and that could play into the D proceedings. On top of that it sounds controlling by you ..... some (mine) introduced OP to the kids early on ... in my case he was just a 'friend' and she had more to answer when asked 'friends shouldn't kiss like that' ..... not my circus/monkeys and out of my control there ... sure it stung badly but you really can do little if she has decided to bring OM along for the ride in her fantasy of life after D.
I get you are reeling but you really need to start applying the DB tools here, what have you been doing on your own, what goals have you set for yourself for the next 6 months?
What would the "morality clause" look like SBJ? How would you enforce it? What would the penalty be for breaking it? I didn't even know there could be such a clause, but it seems... impractical. I wish there was a way to safeguard children's interests post D, but I don't think it is possible
I understand that once the D is final that it isn't my circus any more, but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't be concerned about the conditions that my children live in when not with me.
Maybe I'm putting the cart before the horse, but I'm still confused as to whether or not she has someone else waiting and has intentions of having them around alot when my kids are present.
As for my short term goals...I just updated my bucket list. I have decided to set back out on my personal fitness journey. 15# to go to reach my weight goal. My list for the next 12 months include:
Begin Guitar and Saxophone lessons ASAP
Fill my freezer with venison Nov/Dec 2016
Sprint Triathlon April 2017
Tough Mudder Oct 2017
As for all of the traveling I had on the list...it included my wife. Ireland, Europe, Hawaii...I will either wait to take my kids by myself, or simply see if her fog lifts one day.
Esame, I don't know much about them, but I believe that they can be worded in many different ways. I was simply curious about having people sleep over while you had your kids. I'm not too concerned about myself as I will give myself 2 years, but my wife is all kinds of messed up and not sure what she will see as morally acceptable at the moment.
SBJ
Honestly toss the Morality Contract out the window ... like Esame said .. its not enforceable, and if you have not read up on a MLCr the percentages of 1 having them be on-board with it and 2 actually do it you may be better off playing the lotto.
As far as giving yourself 2 years ... again you are looking way far ahead and you really can not say that either. I listened to a sermon that said we should wait 3-5 years after a LTR before we started dating ... yes 3-5 years and I recall I scoffed at that idea. Like you I also had some metal timelines ... I would date in 2-3 and would not allow anyone to even meet my son for 6 months. Well .... I did date and within 3 months she pressed to meet my S, I quickly realized I was not ready to date, nor for her to meet my S and broke it off ... here I am 3 years post BD and being honest I have alot more healing and work to do before I really can see myself giving 100% to anyone ... this includes my MLCr.
You can not do much about the D, we can not force them to love us ... all you can do is the mirror work and become a better version of yourself and learn about this crisis and get a better understanding to answer your questions of "why" .... I know for me that was huge, understanding she was always going to break and it had little to do with me, I was able to arrive at indifference even with all the damage she caused. It starts wht owning your side of the street and working on becoming a better man.
The problem I am having is that her entire family is falling apart while she and I are going thru this...one of her sisters is at odds with everyone, her mother is kind of getting in the middle of all three of the sisters and stirring the pot, her oldest sister is an addict that seems to be going back down the wrong path.
It's unfortunate that the family has been allowed into all this. It's always best to not involve them, because they will push and pull in ways that only hurt.
Now that the cat's out of the bag, you still would be best advised to back away from any conversations about your marriage with them. You can say you consider it a personal matter and that you plan on making sure that you and the kids will be ok... and then change the subject.
Find one or two people you can confide in who you can trust to keep things to themselves for support.
ForeverYoung...I understand that now. She confided in her mother...I think because her mother divorced my W's dad when my W was young. Her older sister was living with the MIL and picked up on things. The younger SIL found out and took my side, saying that my W was doing the wrong thing. My FIL and my SFIL are both against D, so my W does not confide in them at all, because they differ in opinions.
She also confides in one married (previously D) female friend, and a married (previously D) male friend that seem to be telling her to follow her heart and feelings.
I personally have a couple of men from church that have my back and are walking this walk with me. I see where having too many people involved is a problem. I unfortunately spoke with her family too often when this first went down and now regret that.
Esame, I don't know much about them, but I believe that they can be worded in many different ways. I was simply curious about having people sleep over while you had your kids. I'm not too concerned about myself as I will give myself 2 years, but my wife is all kinds of messed up and not sure what she will see as morally acceptable at the moment.
I hope that she will be mature enough to not put your children through questionable situations. One of the reasons why I struggle with the prospect of dating after D is that I don't want my children around a person that is not their dad. But in the same way, I want them to experience a healthy loving relationship from their parents. I hope my boys will remember how things can be but my little girl is too young so if we don't have future relationships she will not see "normality". It stinks doesn't it.
As I stated yesterday, it seems that my W's family is starting to crumble just as my W and my M are. Her mother is siding with my W about D and her father, SD, and a SIL/BIL do not think that it is the right thing to do. It is kind of interesting how the W is now calling them all crazy...and is angry/frustrated that they don't/won't back her plans. Not that anything can be done, but it is nice that some of my ext family is backing up and standing up for M.
I'm on pins and needles...she told me last week to be prepared because the D papers were being finished and I would get them soon. Talk about comforting going into the weekend. HAHA!
You will notice the MLCrs will not tolerate people who are not team MLC and begin distancing themselves from those who do not fully support the new vision they now have....Family included. As nuts as this sounds/seems its also something to look at later on in the crisis during the re-connection phase as they will reconnect in reverse order. My MLCr does seem to be slowly but surely reconnecting to the family who too told her she was nuts for doing what she was doing.
It is just so totally crazy since they have been extremely tight for so long. She has said that she feels that they have been spying on her for some time now...she has changed email passwords, she changed phone bill info so nobody has access to her account, and the crazy just keeps coming. Maybe that is why she did it, or maybe she is deciding to pick up communication with an OM...I'm not really sure. As she has said repeatedly, that there is nobody else, she just wants a D.
I'm trying to get 12-15 miles in this week and lift 3 days...
CaliGuy...so she started to reconcile the other relationships with family and friends that she had distanced herself from? How long did it take for that to happen? Just curious and how did you find out?
CaliGuy...so she started to reconcile the other relationships with family and friends that she had distanced herself from? How long did it take for that to happen? Just curious and how did you find out?
Here is where you get the fuzzy 2x4 and the not so good news. If you read up on all the homework, the MLC curriculum .... and then you really get into it and start some outside research and study ... for me I needed to do this to understand it, not that it helped I just had a need to really understand what on earth could have flipped the applecart like it did, anyways I digress .... if you learn anything about MLC its this ... it takes time, it will last as long as it does. Look at it as a ship going through an iceburg filled ocean, nothing you can to to rush it and it is possibly the ship will get stuck and frozen in time for periods, maybe forever ... no one really knows nor is it possible to put a time line on it for your specific situation.
With that disclaimer from what I have put together my MLCr started her journey 2011, with a few triggers that preceded that I do not think it really started till 2011, BD was not till 2013. So that's when she started cutting ties with me 2012-2013 .... and within the next 1-3 years started cutting them off with family/friends and to an extent our S. Over the past year or so she has been a better mother and gradually connecting with S and I have noticed some added contact with MIL/FIL and BIL, but I think she still has ties to the MLC friends and OM (But seems not as frequent) so there is more to her journey if she is to emerge out the other side.
I guess my issue is how fast things have gone from BD to now saying she's filled out the D paperwork. I haven't been served yet, but she warned the other night to be prepared. She's laughing with me one minute and telling me she wants out the next. I'm just so confused and I just fear that she is just DONE.
She is worth fighting for, but she's making it difficult. She is totally hard headed and never admits being wrong. She just isn't....ever!
SBJ those are my fears too. I'm terrified that my H is done, and that even if he comes out of his MLC he will not want to try to rebuild our family. And I'm also afraid that because of how strong minded he can be, he will not want to admit to making a mistake.
I really feel for you. But I don't think there is much you can do about those fears. You cannot change her mind, fix her or show her the truth. As you say all you can do is to try and be The Lighthouse...
Completely understand that .... the thing to remember is her crisis started before BD. In my case it was about 2 years .... like you I just figured there are some issues and its just part of the day to day grind of being married .. the ups and downs .. little did I know her MLC brain was taking over and formulating an exit strategy .... this is why we call it Bomb Drop, its out of nowhere and shocks the LBS into panic mode. Its why we all find sites like these.
Well ... the bomb was dropped by your W, You can not undo this .. it has happened, and she will continue her assault until she has felt she has attained her objective. You now have a support group, a way to get better despite all this. Continue the basics ... Detach, GAL, keep your PMA up and start doing some activities you enjoy .. stick to it .. rinse repeat.
I have told this a few times, for me this stuff was tough, I wanted to die, sleepless nights, the BD diet in full effect ... was horrible. It started with one silly task. I made my bed every morning. Yup ... huge thing right? For me I woke up at 4:30 and went to work W was always in bed.... shortly after BD she moved out and I left an empty bed in ruins. I made that small change, I made that bed. I started the day with a small but in many ways a huge accomplishment. This snowballed into other things that I incorporated into Cali 2.0 as I changed into a better version. I cut out things I did not like about myself .. replaced them with things I admired in others and to this day I continue to grow.
Moral of the story. True pain creates true change. Seize this time and allow it to make you better.
Having a tough morning...my youngest came to work with me yesterday since he wasn't feeling well and then decided to stay with the MIL today. Kind of worried about him.
My W simply fills her glass all the way to the top day in and day out with volunteering that I don't know how she completes them it. She has done this for a long time. I think that it is her way of filling her time so that she doesn't have to think about reality and or our marriage.
Spoke with her on the phone briefly on the way home yesterday and while hanging up I actually heard her slip and say the ILY line. It was kind of funny since it has been months since that came out of her mouth. It is just one of those rough days.
2nd BD last night literally right before going to bed. She told me that she found a condo to rent and that she was moving out in a couple of weeks. Saying that we don't hardly talk anymore and things keep getting worse. I don't know what to do.
She says that this isn't new info and that I shouldn't be upset. Let's see...my best friend, my wife, the mother of my kids, the woman I love is leaving me and I shouldn't be upset...unbelievable. I'm kind of in shock. She also said that the D papers are complete,but didn't say when I could see them.
Glad I had a drink last night...that was like NyQuil. Helped me sleep a bit.
I guess I was hoping for some divine intervention before it got too far.
Still not too far. Moving out will allow you to give her the space she needs and the space that you need. Worknon detachinf and gal! I can tell you I was upset and scared and lashed out when W moved out in August but, it's actually kinda nice. A little calm and peace where this house was once filled with anger and tension.
The problem I have is that she wants to move out in 2 weeks and also has the D papers ready to be signed. It totally [censored] when one person wants to save your marriage and one wants out so desperately. Now we have to agree on how we are going to divide everything down the middle...50/50 custody of the kids...who gets the pets...and all of the other BS that goes with D all at one time. This has only been going on since July...at least for me...maybe she has been planning this for a long time.
So you have received the papers and are looking them over?
Not yet...she said that they are ready and that she found a condo, but has not offered for me to look at them yet. The was she has been operating, she will give them to me tonight at 11pm. Talk about miserable.
She claims that we shouldn't argue about anything, because we don't have anything worth fighting for...I guess some people just think it's easy to divide everything down the middle. She is not very emotional about things...it's driving me nuts.
Ok. I'm not saying she hasn't prepared papers but, you are freaking out about something that may or may not be happnening right now. Quite feeding into her behavior. You are giving reactions just as she is expecting. You are predictable and the same person to her right now because well....it's true.
I've been told to expect papers virtually every week (sometimes daily) for months. But then she told me she met with an atty several times. But then told me she was getting stuff together just in case the atty needs it. If you have ever been to a legal proceeding of any kind they tell you what they need pretty quickly. You have minor children. I doubt it's just a "sign here" and you're done. In my state they require (even in amicable and collaborative divorces) parenting classes and custody support hearings. Don't think she's going to force a pen in your hand and you will be D by midnight.
You mentioned that she hasn't asked you to look at the condos yet... why would you? Why would you help her abandon you? She wants independence and wants away from you, remember that. Why are you going to help her do that? Don't even wade into the friend zone waters bud. Otherwise you will soon be putting together a bed and dresser for someone else to be using....
Believe none of what they say and half of what they do.
A condo may be a good thing for both of you. She will get a taste at life without you (if you detach) and she very well may realize it [censored]! It will also give you the chance to GAL and focus on you!
j20a00g...I was saying that I haven't seen any D papers yet.
as for looking at the condo, all I care about is that it is in a safe area since my kids will be there when she has them.
As for helping her move...that's a big NO. If it is in a couple of weeks, then I will be out of town on a hunting trip. The only thing I'd be worried about is if she takes something I did not allow.
My dad told me of a story of when he and my mother divorced...she was moving out and they had an agreement on the furniture that did not include all of the mattresses. When he returned home, there wasn't a bed in the house...he was kind of angry then, but laughs now.
As for the "friend zone" thing...it's funny how that is on all of their minds once they want to leave. She says that all we've had for 25 years is our great friendship, but now she is willing to throw away our M and thinks that we can still be friends. As far as I am concerned, I think that is an impossibility! Maybe once I totally detach, it will be easier to think about, but the thought of her with an OM is messed up. I know that that is something that is a me problem, but I am a work in progress.
As for working on me...I hit the gym last night and am so effing sore right now. Shoulders/arms/abs.
SBJ
Ok .. as far as the move ... yeah mine had to hire a crew to move, turned out she took everything she wanted and yeah I had to get an air mattress ... at the time I was not upset because I figured a month or two she would wake up and all would be good ... ok I laugh now at that mindset, but it wasnt all bad .. I had a very DB 'shrug' whatever type attitude about it all and did not stop her from running to find all that happiness she just knew was on the other side ... 3 years later she is still looking for it and has yet to find it. MLCrs plot and run .. thats just part of this.
Ok so ... lets start digging a bit, what are her reasons for leaving you?
CaliGuy ...
1. As in earlier post, it was the typical ILYBINILWY thing, we have always just been friends, we have never been passionate, she has never really been in love with me...when I say script, it's like she is following it word for word.
2. She feels that she could never be intimate with me ever again...due to the face that for years we had painful sex. That was a result from a female surgery she had 5+ years ago. She says that she has alot of pent up resentment towards me.
3. Neither of these explain the fact that I feel that she had an EA for 3.5 months...she claims that they cut ties in July, but who knows. She has recently changed all passwords and also changed over her cell service off of our business account. Coincidence???
4. As you say...maybe she is chasing a fantasy like in all of her movies and romance novels. I guess I need to look more like Fabio. HAHA!
Ok ... so those reasons really have little to do with you and more to do with her right?
So here is something for you to do .... this was taught to me here and was the start of my journey.
The List:
List #1 list out 10 things you like about yourself
List #2 list out 10 things you do not like about yourself .... CAREFUL this is not 10 complaints your spouse has/had .. 10 legit things that YOU do not like about yourself.
List #3 list 10 things you admire in other men, men you know, admire from afar etc.
Now print this list out where only you can see it on a regular basis ... I had a copy in my bedroom after the separation, and another in my office at work. every week focus on ONE item from list #2, and attempt to replace it from ONE item from list #3. I highlighted this and every week had a fresh copy and did it again.
It doesn't happen overnight, and often I had to work on something from list 2 several times before I felt I could cross it off (Some things 2 years later are STILL there and still a work in progress) .. I still have the lists and I still have items from that first time there, but I will tell you they may have been at 90 then they are a 30 now. Some things I had to eliminate and replace with somethings else as I conquered certain issues I wanted to eliminate from my life. Some things are harder .. took me 40+ years to become who I am and it will always be a work in progress ... key term PROGRESS as I strive to get better day by day.
SBJ and anyone else reading .. this is the beginning of growth, this is where I began transforming myself into a better person one item at a time.
Ok ... so those reasons really have little to do with you and more to do with her right?
So here is something for you to do .... this was taught to me here and was the start of my journey.
The List:
List #1 list out 10 things you like about yourself
List #2 list out 10 things you do not like about yourself .... CAREFUL this is not 10 complaints your spouse has/had .. 10 legit things that YOU do not like about yourself.
List #3 list 10 things you admire in other men, men you know, admire from afar etc.
Now print this list out where only you can see it on a regular basis ... I had a copy in my bedroom after the separation, and another in my office at work. every week focus on ONE item from list #2, and attempt to replace it from ONE item from list #3. I highlighted this and every week had a fresh copy and did it again.
It doesn't happen overnight, and often I had to work on something from list 2 several times before I felt I could cross it off (Some things 2 years later are STILL there and still a work in progress) .. I still have the lists and I still have items from that first time there, but I will tell you they may have been at 90 then they are a 30 now. Some things I had to eliminate and replace with somethings else as I conquered certain issues I wanted to eliminate from my life. Some things are harder .. took me 40+ years to become who I am and it will always be a work in progress ... key term PROGRESS as I strive to get better day by day.
SBJ and anyone else reading .. this is the beginning of growth, this is where I began transforming myself into a better person one item at a time.
I like this!
Cali- you are 3 years separated now? What's the current sitch?
Ok ... so those reasons really have little to do with you and more to do with her right?
So here is something for you to do .... this was taught to me here and was the start of my journey.
The List:
List #1 list out 10 things you like about yourself
List #2 list out 10 things you do not like about yourself .... CAREFUL this is not 10 complaints your spouse has/had .. 10 legit things that YOU do not like about yourself.
List #3 list 10 things you admire in other men, men you know, admire from afar etc.
Now print this list out where only you can see it on a regular basis ... I had a copy in my bedroom after the separation, and another in my office at work. every week focus on ONE item from list #2, and attempt to replace it from ONE item from list #3. I highlighted this and every week had a fresh copy and did it again.
It doesn't happen overnight, and often I had to work on something from list 2 several times before I felt I could cross it off (Some things 2 years later are STILL there and still a work in progress) .. I still have the lists and I still have items from that first time there, but I will tell you they may have been at 90 then they are a 30 now. Some things I had to eliminate and replace with somethings else as I conquered certain issues I wanted to eliminate from my life. Some things are harder .. took me 40+ years to become who I am and it will always be a work in progress ... key term PROGRESS as I strive to get better day by day.
SBJ and anyone else reading .. this is the beginning of growth, this is where I began transforming myself into a better person one item at a time.
I like this!
Cali- you are 3 years separated now? What's the current sitch?
3 Years since BD, she moved out Nov13 ... Mar15 had a serious TnG and we moved back in with each other (She was far from baked) around April/May15 did Retrouville Jun-Aug15. The damage done along with her never quite hitting bottom sent her back into replay again around Oct/Nov15 (For her the childhood trauma is seasonal .. November) I caught her contacting OM Feb16 and I moved out 10 days later.
Currently waiting D papers, I suspect this will be a slow process as with everything else. I have had little contact with her over the past 8 months but from her looks she is still deep in her crisis.
D@mn man. Sorry to hear that
That's the problem I have a hard time with...not only are they acting crazy different, but you can see it in they're appearance. They just seem to have a different look altogether. I cannot put it into words. I even said to her around the time the BD hit that it looked like she changed her makeup...to which she said that she had not.
Also curious about the Retrouville program...it was recommended to me by a friend for us to attend. The problem is that my W seems way too far gone to even consider it.
Kind of like you...she says she has found a place to live and will move out in a couple of weeks. Also she says she has the D papers ready. I can't win for losing.
All in a days work...crazy is as crazy does!
Don't even consider retrouville. You aren't in the position to be recommending anything at this point. In fact, making those types of recommendations to her will most likely do more damage.
No need to try to describe the different look. I know what you are talking about. Think of it this way....they view us as looking differently too! Hence why some distance and detachment will help!
D@mn man. Sorry to hear that
Don't be, it's honestly for the best and she needs this to continue her journey.
I only agreed to Retrouvaille because at the time she showed remorse and was committed to the M. It's a solid program but hindsight I should have pumped the brakes and taken things slowly, lesson learned is stress/pressure makes the MLCr run the other direction
D@mn man. Sorry to hear that
Don't be, it's honestly for the best and she needs this to continue her journey.
I only agreed to Retrouvaille because at the time she showed remorse and was committed to the M. It's a solid program but hindsight I should have pumped the brakes and taken things slowly, lesson learned is stress/pressure makes the MLCr run the other direction
Hence the reason why detaching and GAL reduces pressure off of them and is effective.
I don't think I would ever do the retrouville thing. Seems incredible religious driven. Not for me
SBJ,
they say do not rust anything she says for a reason. The crazy spouse will rewrite history, will lie, will cheat and will steal. Thinking they will not is a big mistake.
They might show signs of remorse, but it is FAKE, they are putting on a show for general public, inside they are dancing and celebrating and frolicking in their newfound freedom. Any signs of doubt you might be seeing you might mistake for clarity or fog lifting. Another BIG mistake.
Let's get one thing PERFECTLY clear and I am going to be blount about it. Your marriage is OVER, GONE, BURIED! It died at BD. There is no question about it, and the sooner you come to terms with it, the better it will be for you. Now this does not mean that there will not be a new relationship with your W, but the old one is KAPUTT.
That being said, as far as your W is concerned, there really is nothing you can do to turn the situation overnight. The best (and only) thing you can do is to let her go, take your nuts out of her purse and start living a life. She has to come to the realization what she wants, and one thing is for certain, one thing she definitely does not want is you (at the moment). Even though you might have loads of good points to be made and even though you probably see things much more clearly, she WILL NOT believe a single thing you say. At best she will politely nod and think the contrary and at worst she will spew. O god how they spew. In her mind it is all your fault and in her mind she had to put up with you for ages and in her mind THE TIME FOR HER HAPPINESS HAS FINALLY COME.
So the only thing you can do is to let her come to the truth herself. Forget MC, forget Retrouvaille, you are years from that. The thing you can do for yourself is not allow her to play you for a patsy.
You have been given the gift of time, make a better person out of yourself, grow, become a better dad, a better neighbor, an all together better person. To not fool yourself that this will blow over any time soon, it will not, your life has just been shaken to the core and I will let you in on a little secret, this could turn out to be one of the best things that has ever happened to you. I know you do not believe me right now, but I am right.
Stay strong buddy, we're here for you...
The funny thing is that I know you are right on all counts, but the fact that it has only 3.5 months still has me shocked. I have gone from the thought that all was well in my M to D and her moving out that fast. I just wish there was a coping switch that I could flip so that dealing with the separation anxiety would be easier...separation from both my W and kids (at least half of the time). I have been the consummate family guy...always doing for the W and kids. Now I'm having to tell myself to go back to when I was 20 and think and do for myself. That is a hard pill to swallow.
It's kind of funny that our spouses MLC creates our own MLC where we are just as confused as they are. Our only difference is that we know what we want. They on the other hand seem totally dazed and confused.
I saw something this morning that made sense to me...it said:
Beware of destination addiction...The idea that happiness is in the next place, the next job, or even with the next partner. Until you give up the idea that happiness is somewhere else, it will never be where you are.
Maybe:
*Once she is out of the house and I have to spend a week by myself the reality of the situation will actually kick in.
*Not seeing my kids every day will help the reality kick in.
*Having to cook dinner for one instead of 4-5 will help me see.
I'm not saying that this will be easy or that this will be over soon...but to be honest I guess I was hoping for a little divine intervention. I will continue to work on myself physically, mentally & emotionally. I will continue to grow in my faith. I will continue to grow and nurture my friendships, both old and new. I will continue to check things off of my Bucket List...either by myself, with my kids, with friends, or with whomever decides they want to join the party.
SBJ
I just caught up with your thread and wanted to point out a few things.
You are getting very good advice.
This decision to “stand” for your M while your spouse is in the midst of a crisis is a very personal one. This decision IMO, has less to do with the “legal” marriage and more to do with the “emotional” marriage. The legal M is just that – a legal contract.
Standing IMO, requires that YOU truly DETACH. It is the only way to survive this. It protects you from continuing to deal with the hurt and pain that is slung your way from someone who is batchit crazy right now. Think about….the more hurt slung your way, the more stuff you have to deal with NOW and potentially later should reconciliation occur.
I want to remind you of what you said on Oct 20th.
I love my W 100% and I am willing to STAND as long as I have to save things.
I guess the question you need to ask yourself…is do you love her enough to really LET her GO. Because you will need to. You need to LET HER GO..so that SHE can work through the stuff that she needs to work through.
I walk by faith even when I cannot see. 1 Corinthians 5:7 (I believe)
On Oct 23rd.. you posted this ^^^^^ . My question to you….is do you think you live this? Do you think that you can let go and just walk by faith?
As for telling the kids about any potential divorce – IMO, you should be there. This is not about standing up to her – it is about being there for YOUR kids. I do not believe that you should proclaim “I did not want this”, as that does nothing to help the kids deal with this. Trust me when I tell you that they will figure it out over time. Please just remind your kids that this has nothing to do with them. It is not there fault. This is what they will need to hear.
As for a “Morality Clause” – I would not bother. It is a form of control and cannot really be enforced.
She told me that she found a condo to rent and that she was moving out in a couple of weeks. Saying that we don't hardly talk anymore and things keep getting worse. I don't know what to do.
As for her moving – let her. It is HER choice. She just may need to do this in order to continue to work through her chit. The kids should stay with you, or at a min. your home should be their primary since that is what THEY are used to.
Chin up dude – I know this stinks. You will make it through this.
ericmsant2...I understand and agree with all of the advice I have received so far. My problem is taking it. HAHA!
I know that I have NO control over her moving out.
I know that I have NO control over her filing for D.
I know that I should remain emotionally strong for my kids.
I know that I should make positive changes to myself for myself.
The problem I have is that scary 4 letter word called FEAR.
She has always been my rock to hold onto in life's storms. Now it is up to myself to stand solo in all of those same storms. This will, I know, make me a stronger & better man, but it sure is hard to keep a smile on my face while I get started. I know that none of this is my creation, but as I said earlier...her crisis has created a crisis in me...one that I need to squash fast so that I can fully commit to making a better life for me and my 3 kids.
As for the quote, I walk by faith even when I cannot see, that is something that I have reaffirm to myself daily. The good thing is that This community gives us the confidence to move forward thru these storms of life.
Thanks for the uplifting advice...
You have nothing to fear but fear itself. You are stronger than you think. Don't plan too far ahead. Focus on one day at a time and no that it's a one step forward, two step back process. If you stumble and fall, we'll be there to help you back up on your feet. Have faith in yourself. You can do this!
You have nothing to fear but fear itself.
Except snakes ... be very afraid of snakes. ... those things are terrifying.
Not sure if it is too OCD, but I just made myself a spreadsheet to fill in all of my daily activities during the week as well as the weekends. The whole idle hands thing you know...hopefully I can start early and fill my day with growth in all areas...mind, body and spirit!
Unfortunately you are right, but snakes come in all forms...sometimes even as the OM.
That's a good start! Just don't plan too far ahead. One day at a time.
Some people blog and others do what you are thinking about doing, i.e., spreadsheet to chart your growth. I want you to come back in 30 days and tell us how you think you did and what, if anything, you would do differently.
So last night around 11pm the W tells me that she has told my 2 youngest that D is more than likely happening. She has not listened and has only done and heard what fits her reality. She is being so childish and selfish that it is BATCHITCRAZY. Again I hear that she doesn't want to over like this...the crazy that she has created. Wow. I'm floored.
Dude, that still goes into the category of believe nothing she says... I know it's hard, d@mn near impossible, but you have to detach, it is not about you, it is about her...
I understand that she isn't making sense, but her crazy is making me crazy. We've been so close for so long that it's hard for me to totally withdraw. I've done so much for her for so long that it's hard not to help, but once she's on her own that reality has to set in. At least I would assume it will.
You need to step off the crazy train. The saying around here is "believe nothing they say and only about 50% of what they do". Detach a bit more. You are dealing w/someone who is emotionally all over the place like a ping pong ball. You can't rationalize w/someone who is emotional.
This is her lot to fix and you can't fix her. She has to do it for herself. You aren't her father, in fact, she's fired you as a husband for the time being. Leave her to figure things out for herself.
SBJ,
I would even go as far as to say that you did too much for her, you were a classic fixer. My W just after BD accused me of helping too much. Crazy heh? I always thought that not helping enough gets you in trouble with the W, but it seems that helping too much is just as bad if not worse...
To not try to make sense of it, because there is none to be made. And if you try to, it will just drive you nuts.
ericmsant2...I understand and agree with all of the advice I have received so far. My problem is taking it. HAHA!
I know that I have NO control over her moving out.
I know that I have NO control over her filing for D.
I know that I should remain emotionally strong for my kids.
I know that I should make positive changes to myself for myself.
The problem I have is that scary 4 letter word called FEAR.
She has always been my rock to hold onto in life's storms. Now it is up to myself to stand solo in all of those same storms. This will, I know, make me a stronger & better man, but it sure is hard to keep a smile on my face while I get started. I know that none of this is my creation, but as I said earlier...her crisis has created a crisis in me...one that I need to squash fast so that I can fully commit to making a better life for me and my 3 kids.
As for the quote, I walk by faith even when I cannot see, that is something that I have reaffirm to myself daily. The good thing is that This community gives us the confidence to move forward thru these storms of life.
Thanks for the uplifting advice...
Forget
Everything
About
Relationship
Funny story...the W and I share a calendar on our iPhones. This morning she says that she needs me to take my youngest Halloween costume shopping...I told her that I was playing golf and that it was on the calendar. Felt both good and bad at the same time.
She needs you to? Why can't she?
She needs you to? Why can't she?
Before asking your wife this, pause a minute and think about anything else that goes into Halloween at your house, and figure out who did it or is going to do it.
Who buys Halloween candy, decorates the house, takes the kids tick-or-treating, hands out candy at home, provides treats for classroom parties, serves a special Halloween dinner, drives kids to parties, etc.?
If all of this is divided evenly between the two of you, or you do more of it, then I think it's fair to ask why she can't get the costume.
If you realize that she does all of this, then I'd make time to get the costume.
For many women, the unfair division of the emotional and physical labor of the holidays is a big issue, even in otherwise good marriages. No need to explode that mine accidentally.
The mine exploded when she filmed out D papers and rented a condo to move into. So this week I get to celebrate my birthday while my wife and kids are moving out...effing great. She spends more time volunteering her time with all sorts of things and I have spent years filling in the blanks and now she wants to be selfish. Whatever. I'm getting more bitter by the day and that's just sad.
The W came to me around 10pm last night saying that we needed to talk. She says that she doesn't want to hurt or upset the kids any more than they already will be, but that she is moving out next weekend. She has decided that she will not take any of the furniture because she doesn't want my kids to have their house picked apart. She will only take her clothing, personal items, and a few other things.
She says that our reaction to each other sets the tone for the kids...while I agree, I also see that a parent moving out of their family home sets a pretty big tone also. My kids know that she is the one leaving and that I don't want this to happen...I guess that sets a big tone also.
SBJ,
I understand you dude, I truly do. You are very early in all this $hit and things will likely get worse before they get better. You are currently in the "poor me" mode. You need to get out and make your life worth living. Ask yourself what you always wanted to achieve and just could not find the time. Well now the time has been granted, time to start "living". That trip you always wanted to take, now you can. Get out of your comfort zone. Why would you not treat yourself to a nice dinner in that posh new restaurant? Why would you not try curling for the first time? You always wanted to see the giant redwoods in Cali in person? Get your a$$ in the car and go.
I think you sort of see what I am getting at.
Stay strong buddy, these really are life changing events... But in time you will find out, the change can also be for the better, sooooo much better.
SBJ
You may have mentioned this before….. sorry I do not remember. Does S19 live with you?
Not sure if it is too OCD, but I just made myself a spreadsheet to fill in all of my daily activities during the week as well as the weekends.
I think this is a good idea.
So last night around 11pm the W tells me that she has told my 2 youngest that D is more than likely happening.
I know how much this s*cks. You may want to consider talking to the kids to let them know that this is NOT their fault.
I understand that she isn't making sense, but her crazy is making me crazy.
Detach, detach, detach. You decide how long you stay on the crazy train.
We've been so close for so long that it's hard for me to totally withdraw.
Hard but NOT impossible.
So this week I get to celebrate my birthday while my wife and kids are moving out...effing great.
Why are the kids moving out? Is this their choice or is this what you W said SHE was doing?
Look dude, I am not sure who is the primary care giver for the kids – does it make sense for them to move with her or is it better for them to stay with you and spend weekends with their mom?
Vapo...I know that there are many things that are on my Bucket List that I want to do...I played golf with friends yesterday for the first time in a long time. But you are right that this is new to me, even if she has been thinking about it for a long time. I have tried to keep the strong face on at home and when I have been around my W and kids, but once I get alone for a while the reality kicks in and it becomes difficult.
ericmsant2...
My oldest is in college and lives a couple of hours away. I hope to see him this coming weekend.
The spreadsheet is more of a personal schedule to keep my time occupied from 5am-11pm everyday. I am going to add in some activities for myself to do on the W's week to have the kids and then some family activities for me and the kids to do when they are with me.
My youngest just knows that we are going to have 2 houses now...not sure how much a 10yo can comprehend about the D situation anyway, but my daughter knows that this is something that mom wants...not dads idea. As hard as it sounds I'm almost more worried about telling my oldest than any of them. He will not take it well for sure.
For now we are settling on 50/50 custody with no primary...all decisions are to be made together.
I guess my biggest issue is having to stay in the house the first time by myself...even though I will have our small zoo of pets to keep me company.
I know here in my state there has to be a primary even if 50/50. Reason is for school zoning and such based on address.
Don't underestimate the comprehension of your 10 year old. In my case D5 and D7 are pretty aware and understanding of what is going on. Key is that while they can know it wasn't your decision be sure to not villainize W. she will always be heir mom and how you handle it will set how the kids will and how they will remember it forever.
j20a00g...I will have to ask my L about the primary parent thing...our kids are in private school, so not sure how that would work.
I would never talk bad about my wife to the kids...she has always loved my kids more than anything in the world. She is a wonderful mother. Even though she is doing this to me and our family, I love her implicitly. She has always been my best friend and I don't treat friends or family with disrespect.
She is not thinking in her right mind at the moment, but one of these days, I pray that she comes back to earth and realizes that she already had the family of her dreams. In the mean time I will love my children and be the best dad I can be. God will guide us thru this trial and we will come thru shining on the other side.
Reminds me of the quote from Shawshank Redemption..."Andy Dufresne - who crawled through a river of [censored] and came out clean on the other side". I just hope that when this is all said and done, I will be clean on the other side.
It's funny, I feel that since the W and I actually had a somewhat normal convo last night, she felt it necessary to call me and tell me how crazy her sister is and how her sister took advantage of her and manipulated her into doing something for her. It's like the pot calling the kettle black. She is so far into the fog that she cannot see what she is doing to us. Totally BATCHITCRAZY right now...
You are being friendzoned... Stay away from the friendzone...
j20a00g...I will have to ask my L about the primary parent thing...our kids are in private school, so not sure how that would work.
I would never talk bad about my wife to the kids...she has always loved my kids more than anything in the world. She is a wonderful mother. Even though she is doing this to me and our family, I love her implicitly. [/b]She has always been my best friend and I don't treat friends or family with disrespect. [b]
She is not thinking in her right mind at the moment, but one of these days, I pray that she comes back to earth and realizes that she already had the family of her dreams. In the mean time I will love my children and be the best dad I can be. God will guide us thru this trial and we will come thru shining on the other side.
Reminds me of the quote from Shawshank Redemption..."Andy Dufresne - who crawled through a river of [censored] and came out clean on the other side". I just hope that when this is all said and done, I will be clean on the other side.
Ummmmm. If this is how you allow your best friends to treat you I would hate to see your enemies.
I'm in a similar situation as SBJ.....
I'm about six weeks into this and after about five weeks of trying the MC route and my W acting like a teenager, I decided to go to mediation and move ahead with the divorce. She said she doesn't love me more time than I can count and he's truly out of her mind right now so I need to move on and focus on being the best Dad I can be as well as being a better version of myself.
Since agreeing with my W on the divorce, she's tried to suck me into the friendzone. I told her that maybe somewhere in the future we could have a relationship but right now, she's crazy if she believes that I'm going to help her divorce me or that we're going to be friends. To show you how crazy a MLCer is, last night I was preparing dinner and my wife asked me if she could help. Now understand that she hasn't helped me make dinner once in 15 years. She usually planted her ass on the couch and came in when it was ready (I know, to let that go on is nuts). I accepted her help (mistake) and asked her why now was she helping after NEVER wanting to help. Of course she didn't have a answer. As I sat on the couch with her after dinner, I realized that she was sensing the distance that detachment was causing and she was trying to keep me close. As good as that feels, to feel wanted, I knew I had to get up and leave her alone. She doesn't deserve my friendship as much as I'd like to give it to her.
Am I right to assume that this kind of behavior will occur more frequently as I begin to push her to leave?
Ummmmm. If this is how you allow your best friends to treat you I would hate to see your enemies.
j20, Can you explain what you see that SBJ is "allowing" that he should not be? This has to be something he can control.
SBJ, You definitely should set up some boundaries to protect you and the kids, but there is absolutely no reason why you can’t be friendly with your wife during her crisis. Doing otherwise smacks of trying to “teach her a lesson” and will only make things more painful for everyone. Think of what you want your kids to see, because they are watching... and W will always be their mom.
It sounds to me like even though W wants to move out, she's willing to work with you regarding the details. This may change so use it to your advantage while you can.
You have to try not to react to everything W says or does and start thinking long term here.
Vapo...yes I know...the friendzone stinks. The hardest part is that we've always been friends, but now that is coming to an end. At least as far as I can see. I am either an all or nothing kind of guy with regards to relationships ending. There is no way I could be OK with just being friends and watching her develop another relationship with an OM.
j20a00g...what I was saying is that I will not Badmouth her to my children. I will never tell my kids that the D was my idea, but I will not tell them that she is a bad human being, no matter how much she hurts me. That would only hurt my kids.
msp710...I can't begin to give you advice, because I have and probably am doing it all wrong. I have begun to detach, but it is hard to do. I still care about her too much and I am probably still too curious as to who she is with and where she is. I don't ask her, but my kids to let me know. I hope and pray that you are able to stay strong for your kids.
ForeverYoung...the long-term thinking is difficult. I try to first think about what "I" want to be in 1, 5, 10, + years, but without fail, the thought that she might not be involved creeps in. She is saying that the D papers should be delivered to me (served) this week, and that she is moving out this coming weekend. Talk about a kick in the ba!!$. I am trying to stay strong this week for myself and my kids.
FY, I respectfully disagree with you completely. There are are two major schools of thought prevailing on these boards, one is saying that one should be a friend to the "wandering spouse" as they are obviously going through a rough patch, and the other that says time for friendship has passed at BD. The vast majority of vets on these boards agree with the latter, me including.
The W left, now she seek me out when she wants unload psychologically?!? Nope, not any more. My W even tried to get me to comfort her when she found out that her affair partner was sleeping with her boss at the same time. I am still dumbfounded how that became to be...
Friendly? Yes, friendly as one would greet a distant neighbor, but not an ounce more.
SBJ, please understand, she WILL try to keep you an a hook for her plan B, so she will occasionally drop bread crumbs, and you will see this as a sign that things are turning around (or just about to turn around), which could not be farther from the truth. Trust me, you will see these signals and in time you will learn to recognize them.
To finish, let me just reiterate. No way in hell am I going to be dumped on by someone that expressed a clear desire to get the hell out my sight. You wanted me gone? Well this is what gone feels like...
Also SBJ, trust me, having her out of your sight will benefit you greatly, so you really can look at her getting away as a benefit.
Vapo...I agree with you with regards that she wants out and will have to realize that we cannot be friends once she walks out the door. But as I said, I will not tell my kids, who are innocent here, anything negative about their mother. They don't deserve to be dumped on either.
If at some point, she realizes what she lost, then and only then she will have to apologize, repent and change her ways. At this point I am trying to tell myself that that will never happen, so that it will make moving on easier.
As for the bread crumbs, I have seen the roller coaster type of signs so far. Meaning that one minute she will be angry and the next she wants to be friends. Again, at this point I am trying to cope for myself, figure our how to split up 25 years worth of assets, and figure out how to stay strong for my kids.
SBJ, I have said nothing about wife bashing, and I agree with you 100%.
Do not try to move on, rather focus yourself on moving forward, improve yourself and making yourself the best dad, and person you can be. As I said you are only starting your journey.
Stay strong my friend...
Unless I missed it, SBJ doesn't even know if there is an OM. To me, it makes a big difference.
No one here is suggesting to bake cakes.
DB is about doing what works to save the M, which is what we all came here to do. Re-read the DR chapter on MLC to see how Michele recommends moving forward in these situations. It won't be easy, but neither is D.
Guys thanks for everything you have all said. I agree that I want to save my M, but it is very evident that I'm going to have to do it from separate locations. She is moving out this weekend. She is taking no furniture from our home. She is only taking her clothing and her personal stuff. Her mother (The Enabler) has purchased beds and a couch for her condo.
I haven't been served with the D papers yet, but she told me they should be soon.
No I know of what I saw as an EA, but Shea's claimed that that was over in July. Not sure if there is an OM waiting, but I guess we will see soon enough.
It is time for me to become all that I can befor me and my kids...if she sees it and likes it then we can cross that bridge later. What was said earlier about my previous wife is gone is seeming more and more obvious. She is my wife and I love her, but at this point she'd have to make some serious strides to come back to a loving M. She is all but checked out right now and I guess in search of something she thinks I cannot supply. My goal is to show her that I am the PRIZE.
Hi SBJ. I haven't read your whole thread but will assume you have read through all the resources at the top of the forum.
What are your W's complaints with you in the M?
From what I see right now you are too attached. That said it is hard to detach living in the same house and her pushing for D.
On that. Unfortunately for you she has a right to divorce you so you can't stop that if she really wants to do it.
If she does you need to protect yourself legally, financially and emotionally.
Emotionally? Yes. That starts with boundaries and
DETACH DETACH DETACH.
Now....
Let's get busy. I asked you a question up there. How about it?
My goal is to show her that I am the PRIZE.
Hmm. If that is your goal I think you will likely fail.
Putting the measure of your success in the hands of your W inherently makes her in control of it.
Do you want to do that with how this woman is acting?
And
If you make changes that aren't real. That are made to win her back... she will sniff you out like a drug dog at a Miami airport.
What are your goals for YOU?
SBJ
I agree that I want to save my M, but it is very evident that I'm going to have to do it from separate locations.
SO – In one hand it may be easier to do it this way than in being in the same house. DB101 – Change how you look at things. If you continue to look at this as a negative then it will be.
It is time for me to become all that I can be for me and my kids...if she sees it and likes it then we can cross that bridge later.
Best quote I have seen from you in a while. You becoming the best YOU should be the GOAL. If that results in her coming back – well then whopdedamdo – if she does not return – her lose, as YOU would have become the best man you can be which is a WIN WIN either way you look at it.
She is my wife and I love her, but at this point she'd have to make some serious strides to come back to a loving M.
IMO, chances are YOU both need to make some serious changes. For now, you focus on YOURS and let her focus on hers.
Boundaries are a funny thing at this stage in the process – YOU can create boundaries that are used to “show her”, “get her to see that I am not kidding”, “make her feel what this is going to do” OR
You create boundaries that are “allow me to avoid the emotional roller coaster ride”, “give me the space that I need to work on ME”, etc.
See the difference?
Ultimately, YOU decide which boundaries to implement.
Please start a new thread.
New Thread:
MLC Wife is Walking Out This Weekend