Hi All, I have been posting in Newcomers for a few months but I noticed AndrewP over here (hello AndrewP) and I wondered if someone can confirm if my H is having MLC?
Just a quick recap: We had a bit of a disagreement between Xmas and NY 2015 during which time H said he though we should split up. I really didn't expect it but he said the usual things, he doesn't love me, doesn't think he ever has (which he recently retracted), doesn't feel that way about me, we've got nothing in common, we've got nothing to talk about, something just snapped inside him, hasn't felt himself for a long time, doesn't love me enough to try...
Eventually he left in May 2016 and after staying a few months with friends and family he has now rented an apartment for 12 months which he has told my daughter he can leave at any time. We were doing family evening once a week which he says he enjoyed. He brings wine, food and we watch a film. He did tell me early on not to think family night was another rung on the ladder which really shocked me! I dont know if there is OW, probably is but I don't know how to find out or if I want to.
H is usually a very down to earth, friendly guy. He is very sensitive and everyone loves him so this has been a total shock to everyone. I feel so let down that he wouldn't even contemplate giving our marriage a chance. For the past 13 days I have gone dark. I don't want to do family evening anymore and my daughter, his step-daughter, is fed up of him as well. I am so confused with it all! He didn't want to talk to me about what I did wrong but I am DBng to try and improve myself.
Any advice would bad great!
Welcome to this board.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmMichele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmKeep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296Things you should know as the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701017#Post2701017Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Coly,
Welcome to the MLC Forum! I'm very sorry that you are here, but you are going to find that we have a close knit family that will listen, provide advice/suggestions and/or just be here for support.
Tell us more about yourself and your h. Did something happen in the last 18-24 months, i.e., death of a family member, co-worker or friend, birth of a child, job loss or promotion, etc.? Does your h exhibit confusion and depression? In MLC there is some confusion and depression is the main ingredient.
Whether he is a walkaway or in MLC, you would do the same thing: leave him alone, give him time and space, only contact him in an emergency and the most important thing...be sure your assets/financials are well protected.
I have linked your thread from Newcomers over here for easy referral/reading for the posters.
Current Thread in Newcomers:
Trying to detach - part deux
Hi Coly23! I hadn't realized you were watching me. I will confess that I've not paid too much attention to your thread but had noticed you and Cherry hanging out quite a bit.
Is your H showing any other signs of MLC? Depression, confusion, rash actions? A quick browse through your past threads makes it almost look like out of the blue he just gave you the ILUBINILU speech and wandered away.
Is he given any indication of his future plans?
Thanks Cadet!
Hi Job, thanks for your message - this is just a little timeline of what we have experienced over the years since we got married. To be honest with you I didn't even think they were major enough to cause any strain on our marriage but see what you think:
Aug. 2010 - H and I get married
Early Dec 2010 - find out we are existing a baby
End Jan 2011 - miscarriage at 11 weeks - although H was never bothered about us having a baby he takes it quite badly and has more time off work than I do.
During 2011 and 2012 I become obsessed trying for another baby. I am told that I am perimeopausal and will not conceive. I am devistated.
2013 - H's company are taken over and H struggles with the amount of work. He is put on performance management but plays it down to me until I get it out of him that he is one formal meeting away from being sacked. I find out that he has not done very well with the objectives that he has been set and he is in denial. I suggest H resigns before he is pushed (which is inevitable as they did not want him in the new structure). He agrees and resigns. He was a shadow of his former self during this time and loses a lot of self confidence. I don't help as I am annoyed he didn't tell me how serious it was before. I am in HR and could have helped!
May 2013 - Feb 2014 - H struggles to find a job so has to get job seekers benefits. We pay a reduced amount on our mortgage at this time as I don't earn enough to carry us.
Feb 2014 - H finds an interim job which goes permanent but the travel is just too much so H starts looking for another job nearer to home.
June 2014 - I am made redundant
Aug 2014 - I find another job which starts in September 2014
July 2014 - H finds another job nearer to home but the role us extremely busy and still involves a lot of travel
I did start noticing that H was much quieter than usual just before Christmas but didn't really put it down to anything in particular. Another important issue is that H has a really low libido/confidence and we would go through these stages where he just wouldn't initiate for months and I would get very despondent and withdrawn. I tried not to initiate too much as I know it is not something he is really that interested in, but I realise that I was making if worse by putting all the pressure on him. We would then talk about it and he would apologise saying that he just got into a rut. It would be OK for a few months and then the cycle would start again.
H comes from a family who don't deal with emotions very well. They are a lovely family but they don't do outsiders very well and me and my D were considered outsiders. H has an older brother and sister. His brother married a girl he has known since he was 15 and his sister is in her late forties, unmarried and living with the parents. H had not had a long term relationship before me and only a couple of girlfriends. He has a LOT of friends the hp majority of white he had known since he was young. All ages and all sexes.
H was very loving to my D, his step daughter. He saw what her father did to her by abandoning her and promised her on our wedding day that he would be the father to her that that deserved. This is so out of character for him. He keeps saying he needs to be in his own and when I asked if we could maybe try again he said he didn't want any timelines. I don't know if he is fobing me off.
As I said in my first post. I have been dark for 13 days now and it's killing me...
* the majority of which he had known since he was young! Not 'white'!!
AndrewP, when I first came into the Newcomers board I read your sitch from the beginning as I was intrigued about all the mind reading you said you did!
I didn't actually get the ILYBNILWY speech, I just got I don't love you and don't think I ever have speech! H got annoyed a little while later when I reminded him of what he said and denied he ever said that he didn't ever love me!
Between Xmas, when he dropped the bomb, and May I tried really hard to turn things around but he just wasn't interested. In the end I said if you have to leave then you should and he did. I didn't think he would be gone this long. I thought he would take a couple of weeks for himself but once he was out he was on that train and he wasn't getting off.
A couple of months ago I did suggest we have family evening and then maybe start adding in an evening where me and him go out and that is when he said he didn't want any timelines. He told my D that he can leave the rental fiat at anytime but I don't know if that means he has the option of taking somewhere bigger if it comes up as he is in a one bedroom apartment. He still has a lot of clothes and stuff at the house but again it could be because he diesnt have any storage. I'm going to wait for him to ask me. He says he isn't ready to add on an evening for us.
when he first left he didn't see any of his friends for about two/three months not even his best friend. He hid away from everyone. He has told friends now that life is too short and that he would like to carve out a friendship with me! Whatever!
I'm just so confused by all of this!!!
Coly23 - have either of you considered IC? Is you H open to that? It sounds like both of you have had a lot of stress and trauma that perhaps neither of you have had a great chance to process.
Hi AndrewP, I have just started some telephone counselling. I don't know if H would be receptivebro counselling although I have mentioned it to him before. Before he left I did say that I wondered if he was having a MLC and he said maybe so he did recognise something want quire right with him. As I am dark at the moment for all I know he is doing counselling but I very much doubt it...
Coly23 - the fact that he recognized that something wasn't "quite right with him" could be a good sign. Does he have any friends that he's still in touch with that you are two? If he's still feeling lost and confused that might be a method of nudging him along.
I know that earlier in our journey that my W had actively looked into counseling but when she was on her big "up" cycle in June she looked at me with contempt when I suggested it and commented that it had been doing me good.
He may recognize that something is off w/himself...but I wouldn't speak to his friends about nudging him in the right direction. If he's in MLC, he will not take kindly to others trying to offer up suggestion on seeking out medical and/or professional care. I would hate to see him distance himself from his friends at this time and, of course, if the friends say something to him about it, he will have a pretty good idea that you were the one that asked them to speak to him.
He may not appreciate his friends saying anything to him about what he's feeling at this time. In fact, your h may very deny that anything is wrong. Like addicts and alcoholics, he may very deny that he has a problem and won't appreciate someone talking to him about this. This is something that he has to fix. Remember...you didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him. He has to fix himself and it will be on his timeline, which is extremely slow. The more interference in the processing of the crisis, the longer it will take for him to work those his issues and hopefully come out the other side a more mature, responsible man.
I suggest that you leave this alone for the time being. Don't involve others in trying to nudge him along. I've seen this happen many times and it's backfired. Sit quietly, listen to what he has to say and you can gently ask questions and make suggestions if he should ask for them. This is his journey to figure things out.
Thanks AbdrewP and Job. I haven't spoken to any of his friends about him for quite a few weeks now and have never asked them to speak on my behalf. I know this would be a bad thing.
I've not had any contact with him for two weeks now. It makes me sad that he probably doesn't miss me enough to want to speak with me. I just feel so hopeless about it all.
Should I continue to remain dark until he contacts me? What if he doesn't contact me for months?
Only contact him if it's an emergency. Contacting him can be considered pursuing. It's best to give him plenty of space and time. When he's ready, he'll contact you and when he does, treat him as you would a friend. It could be a day, a week or a month or so...but he will contact you. If he doesn't, you continue to move forward and live your life, but they do tend to contact us at some point.
I am curious about why they eventually do reinitiate contact?
Should I continue to remain dark until he contacts me? What if he doesn't contact me for months?
2 1/2 months for me since she moved out without any meaningful word from my W.
We had a brief text exchange after she moved out / gutted the house about her coming back into the house for more stuff - I was more polite than the event warranted.
There were a couple of texts after there was an explosion in the village - just FYI stuff
The last text was a slightly snarky "thanks for letting me know" after I changed our NetFlix password and let her know via text.
No responses at all to any emails (I think there's been 3). All three emails were probably not necessary and dealt with admin things (book-keeping, medical insurance) with one having some begging and chasing in it at the end of August.
The silence is deafening I know but to be honest other than "Please please please come home again" - which I've been assured would be a bad idea, there's not a lot that I actually want to / need to say to her even though I could come up with all sorts of seemingly important things to say.
So - yes - it may well be months.
Think honestly to yourself Coly23 - what is it that you would want to say to him that wouldn't be some sort of pursuit that may just chase him farther into the tunnel?
Thanks again Job and AndrewP. I know I just have to be patient but it all seems so wrong. This person who was so in love with me is happy to not speak to me anymore. It's just so heartbreaking.
I am sure he will contact me soon because my D. his SD p, is ignoring his calls and texts at the moment and I think he will contact me soon to find out what is going on. She has made the decision on her own to go dark with me but I make sure she knows that her relationship is separate but I think she is just fed up of having to fit him in to her very busy teenage schedule!
AndrewP, I am sorry that it has been two months since you have heard from your W except of course for the times you mentioned. That must be tough. Is she still with OM? I know what you mean about not having much to say. I don't think there is anything I need to say to my H at the moment either so that is why it is a bit easier than I thought. I don't need him financially and I am getting on with house maintenance myself as he has never offered to help me with anything except at the start of our separation but in the end it was all lip service. I just don't bother asking anymore.
I don't really know how they sleep at night knowing what they have done....
FightOn,
Some of them initiate contact to see where we are at, i.e., as to whether we are where they left us pre-crisis. They use any old excuse to contact us, i.e., they miss the dog, they left something behind and need to get it, a bill has come in and he/she wants to give it to you because it's yours to pay, missing mail, need to pick up the mail, discuss a business (if you own it jointly), etc., the list goes on. In some cases, they come by the house to "sniff" out what you are doing and to see if any competition has been coming to the home. They usually check out the bedroom and bathroom, i.e., like marking their territory. Yes, they do and it can be very obvious how they walk around and check things out.
Sometimes they just want to appease their guilt and contact you just to see how you are doing...but really, it's all to appease their guilt.
We can't predict what they'll say or do when they make contact, but I have provided some examples because each and every person is unique and so is their crisis.
Coly,
Actually they have a difficult time sleeping at night. Why? Because their brains don't shut off and that's when they don't have anything to distract them from thinking about what they've done and the guilt eats at them. All they do is think and play out things over and over again.
Coly,
Actually they have a difficult time sleeping at night. Why? Because their brains don't shut off and that's when they don't have anything to distract them from thinking about what they've done and the guilt eats at them. All they do is think and play out things over and over again.
I agree with Job -- I witnessed this first hand for nearly a year before I moved out of the house. In fact, before BD when we were still an "us", she told me that she couldn't sleep or process anything because she had too much going on in her head and she couldn't turn her brain "off."
My MLCer hardly ever slept that year before I moved out and now, nearly a year and a half since I moved out, I still see evidence of odd sleeping patterns. Before my exW unfriended me from FB I was able to see that she was online or posting to FB at odd hours of the night and early morning, and I frequently get emails from her (about kids' issues) that are time-stamped between 12:00-3:00 am. I am sound asleep at those hours. She has a professional job with normal 9-5 M-F hours, so she should be asleep as well, but for some reason she isn't. And she is now married to the OW which makes being online checking social media and sending emails about the kids (to me) even more odd. All of this just indicates to me that she can't shut off her brain even though she got what she wanted -- Divorce and me out of the house so she could move OW in and marry her. Getting rid of me did not cure the stress and depression.
AndrewP, I am sorry that it has been two months since you have heard from your W except of course for the times you mentioned. That must be tough. Is she still with OM? I know what you mean about not having much to say.
<snip>
I don't really know how they sleep at night knowing what they have done....
Coly23 - I'm pretty sure that my W never moved in with OM and as far as I'm aware (she never told me where she moved to) she's living in the apartment above the store she works in which is about a 10 minute drive from here and an hour away from OM. I don't even know if she's spending any time with him or not. I presume that she is though. Prior to her moving out as far as I could tell they were essentially just dating. No overnights and only a few "out for dinner with friends" times plus of course the afternoons when W would be off work and I wasn't home that required no explanation. When she moved out the indication was that she was still considering a long term relationship with OM. No clue on what she's thinking now or what's happening with them. One weird difference in my sitch is that OM is actually an older (early 60s), responsible business man rather than some young stud.
Just like Jer2911 I would see signs that my W was up at all hours and she certainly didn't sleep well when she was still at home especially after BD2 when I found out about the A. She never did have great sleep patterns though especially after peri-menopause struck with full force.
To be perfectly frank though while I suspect that my W does know what she's done to herself, to me and to our family I honestly don't know how / if it's affecting her. I know that when she was on one of her "up" cycles in June a month before she moved out she was perfectly comfortable with her choices and looked at me with scorn when I mentioned that I was struggling and seeing an IC. From late June to when she moved out she was very down and from her comments then she had realized what a mess had been created.
Is she currently up, down, or sideways? I have no way of knowing. I sit waiting in hope that she'll "come to her senses" while trying to live my own life as if she never will. One of the downsides of this method is we really can't know what they're doing. There's a combination of images that helps me with this based on comments from vets etc. I imagine that she's a scared squirrel in a tunnel. She knows that big bad AndrewP is waiting at the entrance of the tunnel but she also knows that AndrewP can be a great guy who has been known to have peanut butter cookies. She can go up the tunnel, back down the tunnel or take a side branch. I like to think that she's peeking out the end of the tunnel to see what I'm doing and when she sees me, she scampers back in. If I were to bang on the tunnel or stick my head in she'd run like the dickens in who knows what direction. So for this week I've walked away from the tunnel so she can't see me at all (logged off Facebook, no Snapchat stories). I'm very doubtful that it will make any difference though. For all I know she's in another branch of the tunnel with OM and chocolate chip cookies (yes I like cookies). She may have even found OM2 or who knows what.
Sorry for taking up so much space on your thread and I know that this is perhaps a bit of a downer for you while you wait yourself but I hope it helped a bit in giving you some perspective on being a LBS to a MLC who has gone dark.
Hi Coly,
Fancy meeting you here.
I've started lurking over here. the reason is simple: H flat out said the other day, he feels like he's having an MLC, and yeah, I can see it. With the massive depression, etc. So hi, hoping your hanging in there in your darkness. I have to say, even though I am in contact with H, it is more horrifying than anything. That's not the person I knew/loved/married talking to me. It's soul-shattering, and terrifying.
Hi Job, AndrewP, Jer2911, fightOn and Altair, thanks so much for your posts especially your examples of your H's and W's not sleeping. I am comforted (in a strange way) to know it's just not us LBS's who suffer from insomnia! I expect if my H had FB and I actually bothered to post anything he would see me up at all times of the night/ early morning!
If they feel so guilty about what they have done why does it take them such a long time to contact us or process what they have done? Is it because through that guilt they still feel justified?
It's interesting because it got me thinking that when I first met H he had lived on his own in a very small studio flat. He had trouble sleeping then and could only fall asleep with the TV on! He said he thought it was because he was lonely and had too much time in his own company. I can imagine if he is feeling guilty as well he definitely won't be sleeping much in his own bed!
Job - I've heard that there are three types of MLCers - drop-outs, drop-ins and droplets. Would you be able to advise what the difference is. I think I understand that the drop-out just goes and doesn't contact at all?
AndrewP, it's always great to hear from you, please keep posting! I am currently catching up on your threads over here so will be over to your pad once i know what's been going on in your sich!
Altair - fancy seeing you here! It actually is ok going dark. I think I prefer it to seeing him every now and again. It just brings it all back when he leaves. I saw over on your thread that you have seen him a few more times?
Depressed people don't move or think as quickly as we do. They feel shame and guilt for what they are doing and yet, they continue to do the things that they are doing. You have to remember, that in their minds, we and the relationships are the problems and we are creating the unhappiness that they are experiencing. Coly, it takes years for this stuff to bubble up to the surface because it has been stuffed way down into their souls and when something triggers the crisis...that is when it begins to come to the surface and it will take a few years before they can actually work through their issues. These people have been stunted emotionally and they have to go back to that period of time and face those issues in order to grow up. We didn't grow up over night and neither will they.
Again depressed people tend to isolate themselves from others and since depression is the main ingredient of the crisis, in my opinion, this is one of the reasons that they tend to avoid contact w/us because they do not want to be reminded of what they've done and/or doing to us at this time. Also, they can see the pain and disappointment in our eyes, faces and the tone of our voices...another reason they tend to disappear a bit.
There are three types of mlcers:
1. Drop-in. This is the mlcer that continues to come to the home, most likely on a daily basis or every couple of days. They have dinner, sit around w/the children and just visit like old times.
2. Droplet. This is the mlcer who comes to home or visits w/you periodically. They may come by every couple of weeks or months. They don't make a habit of being at your residence all of the time like drop-in does.
Continue reading up on MLC and depression. Keep the focus on you as much as possible.
3. Dropout. This is the mlcer who walks out the door and you never hear from him or see him again for a very, very long time. No contact at all. They ride off into the sunset never to be seen or heard from again by you or family.
Thank you job for this. It was very helpful for me to hear today. And, of course, what DB coach and IC are saying too. That said, I think I'm ready to bring my bags over to the MLC forum. I could see this taking years-- exactly what you said job-- because it bubbled up and he has so much work to do (as do I). I've slowly accepting this is going to be a long haul, whatever that means. OK! well I'll make my own thread.
Hugs to all.
P.S. Coly, I saw him on Monday. Every day for the past 2 weeks he TMs to see how I am. No future plans (and I am not pursuing)
Thanks Job, that does sound like my H, stuffing all his emotions deep down. He never liked to talk about his feelings or tell me if there was anything I did that annoyed him. He just put up with it silently to my detriment.
And I think he is a droplet for sure as he doesn't come over very much. How does this effect their ability to come back for good? I assume a drop-in is more likely to make a smoother return or does it not make a difference?
Altair, so glad you are coming over here and interesting that H is in contact with you every day. I wonder if he feels your famililiarity is a comfort to him....
I will continue to read as much as possible Job. I actually feel coming on to this board has already been a great help. Thank you!
I had to sit back and think about the "drops" as I posted about three "drops" years ago. I found it interesting that someone would ask about them after all of this time.
Your h will determine whether he wants to reconcile or not and it doesn't matter which "drop" he is. If he wakes up and truly wants to do the hard, necessary work, then he'll attempt to reconcile w/you. Ultimately, you will be the one to decide if you want to reconcile or not. Why? Because there is always a chance that you've moved on and don't want to be involved w/him again, i.e., too much damage or he's changed so much from his crisis that you don't like the person he is at that time, you may very well have changed too and may be far happier living your life and not having him in it. Time will tell....but that's a long way down the road and you truly need to only focus on today and how you spend your time living your life.
Keep the focus on you! Leave your h in the man upstairs hands.
Thanks Job. I have been trawling through all 400 odd posts on this board and came across the three types if MLC'r's. I just thought it was really interesting and I actually thought that there were a larger number who fall into the drop-in category. I dont know what you think of that observation?
Journaling - so it's been two weeks since neither myself nor my D have had any contact with H. I just wonder what he makes of our silence, whether it is worrying him or if he really doesn't care? Who knows!
I had my second telephone counselling session yesterday. I was determined to not cry but blubbered as soon as she started talking. What I've got from this so far is that I have a lot of unanswered questions and this is what is causing my anxiety. Although H told me he didn't love me anymore because he didn't feel we had anything in common, nothing to talk about etc I still don't know why? Also he seems to be either sitting on the fence about whether he wants to work in the M or is he just gaslighting me so as not to hurt me anymore than he has?
However, I have done a lot of self analysis and realise that I was very codependent in th R and also can be quite critical but I don't know for sure if these are the same faults that H finds in me as he would never talk to me. I think the C is pushing me towards the path of confronting H once and for all but I'm not going to initiate anything.
Sins good news. I got a much wanted promotion yesterday and I was so excited the first thing I wanted to do was call H as he would be so proud of me. We would have gone out celebrating tonight if we were still together.... :0(
*Some good news, not sin!!
Journaling - so it's been two weeks since neither myself nor my D have had any contact with H. I just wonder what he makes of our silence, whether it is worrying him or if he really doesn't care? Who knows!
Frustrating isn't it. I'm not making light of your situation - just sympathizing. I think you'll agree with me that "the silence is deafening".
Sins good news. I got a much wanted promotion yesterday and I was so excited the first thing I wanted to do was call H as he would be so proud of me. We would have gone out celebrating tonight if we were still together.... :0(
I'll raise a glass of wine to your good fortune tonight.
I think Coly23 that one thing that we both struggle with is that we're trying to understand what our spouse is doing as if they were a reasonable, rational person. We're applying "tactics" and "techniques" in a hope that they'll have some sort of effect in getting them to wake up and want to reconnect. You're maybe in the stage I was a while ago where you are still looking for answers and logic. In the homework is the "Musing from AmyC"
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741 which I presume you've read through. It was quite the eye-opener for me.
What it boiled down to and what I'm working on accepting is:
- They're on their own journey
- They can't be expected to behave rationally or like their old selves
- We can't have any positive impact on them but we can push them farther into the tunnel
- Even though these things seem to follow a regular pattern and script there's no guarantee that our specific spouses are following it
- There is no timeline we can look to for when they'll come out of it. Some never do.
- If you want to have sympathy for them just think that even though we're going through a tough time it's probably nothing compared to what they're going through.
But! It's not all gloom. You've gotten a promotion, I'm not sure what time zone you are in but it's got to be the weekend soon and you and D can relax and maybe celebrate a bit yourselves.
I know exactly what you mean about wanting to share your good fortune with your H - I struggle regularly on that. In the one letter I wrote to W after she left (which had no noticeable impact - no reply even) I wrote how I wanted to share the joys I've been able to find and to comfort her when she's feeling down. I'm fortunate at least that I have S22/D24 to reach out to over the miles. D24 is a fabulous cheer-leader and always there with an electronic hug. S22 gives great hugs in person but I have to go to him.
Take care my friend.
Andrew,
That was an excellent posting and it is really spot on!
Coly, you are now on your own journey and time is on your side...use it wisely. Congratulations on the promotion! I know that you would love to ring your h up and tell him about it...and you might be able to share the good news down the road.
Have you had time to read up on male depression? Did you know that depression can be different for men and women? It's not about sitting around and not being able to get out of bed or off the couch, it's a really bad place to be in and the sadness and the feeling of being so lost and feeling unworthy of love, etc., does take its tool on them. They find nothing in life to be joyous about. However, they will try different things to make themselves feel better. Once the "feel good" feeling is gone, they start searching again. The internal pain is terrible. Just because we can't see the wounds doesn't mean that they aren't hurting.
As I mentioned earlier, time is on your side. Use it wisely...spend time w/your D and celebrate your promotion. Some day soon, you'll feel so much better and hopefully you will discover some new interests that will help you relieve the stress, anger and hurt.
As for your h being concerned w/your silence...he's not thinking about it. In fact, he most likely is relieved that he doesn't have to any contact w/family right now. He doesn't want to hear the hurt and pain in your voices. But, I can assure you, he will contact you when he's good and ready...they always do. It may not be tomorrow or next week, you will hear from him.
Thanks AndrewP and Job! Thank you both for your congratulations! Unfortunately no one is available to celebrate with me this weekend, even D is out at a party! :0(. Like you say Job, I really hope one day I will be able to celebrate with H!
Job - I've had a look at the male depression thread now and I found if really interesting. Looking back and after writing the timeline of events since we got married I think my H started showing signs of mild depression after he had to resigned from his job before he was pushed. Coupled with the fact that it took much longer than expected to find another one really knocked his confidence sad self esteem. To make matters worse at the time in order to claim job seekers allowance he had to go to the benefits office every two weeks to prove he was applying for jobs and they treated him like a layabout who didn't want to work.
I really should have supported him more and instead I took advantage of him being at home at expected him to do all the chores. :0(
Also I think H has always had self esteem issues and I think that's why he spent a lot of his time by himself. I remember asking one of his friends years ago why he wasn't married (way before we got together!) and apparently it was because he didn't ever feel he had anything to offer anyone. That's why none of this makes sense or maybe it makes more sense....?
Your right about H probably not wanting to see me and D upset although we have both been very upbeat, especially D, whenever we see him. I think one of the other reasons he hasn't been in contact could be because him and his friends have been arranging to go away on a golfing trip during the Ryder Cup. So they play golf and then watch the game whilst drinking copious amounts of alcohol! It's been booked for nearly a year so I can imagine how excited they are. A lot of work goes into it as they get into teams repressing the US and Europe and play against each other. They even have team shirts! I really hope H has a fantastic time!
AndrewP - you are right the silence is deafening and sometimes the message is loud and clear - 'you aren't important anymore!' :0(. That's hard to swallow..
I've given up the tactics and games to make him notice me. The NC is really for me because it was upsetting me whenever I texted him and he wouldn't respond for hours/days or when he came over it hurt all over again when he left. However I must admit I hope it helps him to miss me just a little bit. Also with this promotion a month ago I would have posted it to FB, although I don't post very much and he doesn't have an account, in the hope that one if his friends would see it and tell him. But now I'm just not really that bothered.
Anyway I hope you all have a lovely weekend! Just realised I have no wine in the house so can't celebrate in my own either! It is better this way for fear of sending drunken messages to H especially as I don't have anyone to restrain me!
Coly,
Congrats on the promotion!! yay. I, too, missed signs of depression with H along the way. I guess as women, we just don't see job failures the same way. For us, they seem to just be the way it is, with a little luck thrown in to hopefully boost careers. I hope your H can seek help at some point, instead of wallowing and hiding. I always wonder though what it will be with these types that will get them out of despair mode, if anything.
Your D sounds resilient and seems like she will get through this okay. I think it is good she is a teenager, as opposed to being 5.
I hope you celebrate this weekend!! I am actually going to a wedding solo (H invited, not going) one of those "firsts" we have talked about. I'm all dressed up and ready to go. Have a great weekend Coly!
Hey Altair! Ghana for dropping by.
Yeah agreed I didn't notice any depression at the time big looking back I can see how this event was affecting his self esteem but it was do slow and under the radar. He hats to make a fuss about anything except when he wanted to leave of course!!!
I hope you have great weekend Altair and a fab time at the wedding, you deserve to let your hair down! Also did H go to that work thing with you in the end?
AndrewP - you are right the silence is deafening and sometimes the message is loud and clear - 'you aren't important anymore!' :0(. That's hard to swallow..
Coly23 - I'm calling BS on this statement. You ARE important. And more importantly you are important to him. He's very likely so wrapped up in his own drama though that you're not on the top of his radar. Treat it as a compliment - that he's so confident that you'll be OK that he's not worried about you.
The other thing that I want to say is that you are important to you and to your D. Even though I'm not a particular fan of Michael Jackson I will often re-watch his "Man in the Mirror" video to remind myself that an individual is powerful and that we as individuals are important and can do great things.
I have a number of personal heroes who have done incredible things under impossible odds. One of the top of my list is Sir Ernest Shackleton - I don't know if you know his story or care but I'm going to tell you a bit because I have control of the keyboard right now (Bwah Ha Ha!!) Sir Ernest was a failure at many things in his life. He led a failed expedition to traverse the Antarctic continent. What inspires me though is that even though his expedition "failed", and even though with his ship sunk and his men stranded on an Antarctic ice flow he kept encouraging them, leading them and brought
every man back alive. One part of the story is when he managed to get his men off the ice and on to Elephant Island he asked for volunteers to accompany him on the incredibly dangerous sea voyage to South Georgia.
Every man volunteered - even those who could no longer stand because they believed in him and followed him without reservation. The ones left behind were filled with confidence that eventually "The Boss" would be back and rescue them. Overcoming incredible odds he did.
Hi AndrewP, thanks for that 2x4! I was just feeling sorry for myself as usual! I think the NC thing is messing with my mind a bit! Although I feel better for it, it just feels so wrong to go this long without speaking with him.
Yes I've heard of Ernest Shackleton, I think there was a film about him a few years ago which I watched on TV. He was a very inspirational man and thank you for reminding me about the strength and courage that we all posses. I feel I am getting better at accepting this sitch and recently I have started to feel that I will be fine without my H although I would still love him to come home I know I will survive without him.
Hope your weekend is going we'll?
So here is a question I wonder if any of you have any thoughts on.
I considered my self codependent in my marriage. I see that now. Before we got married my husband spent a lot of time on his own and he comes from a family where his parents although still together lead pretty separate lives like for example they never go on holiday with each other etc. It works for them and that is my H's example of married life whereas his brother has been with the same person since he was 15 and they live pretty codependently and are happy.
My H pretty much looks up to his parents so my question is: is it more likely for a WAS with codependency traits to return to the marriage (especially if they have not worked on themselves) than one who prefers his independence or is it really all about love! Does that make sense??
Hi coly, I thought I would pop over here to send some love. Congratulations on the promotion, that's excellent news- you should be so proud of yourself. Especially as you achieved it when you have so much going on in your personal life. I often ponder if my wh is having a mlc, there's a lot of his traits here, though he is so young, I didn't think it could be there.
I would imagine that loosing his job would have drastically have affected his self esteem, a lot of men like to be the provider of the family. And to be reduced to visiting the job centre and being treated like he is someone that doesn't want to work would really dent his confidence. I know my wh would tell me he would like to be able to earn enough that I didn't need to work, he would comment on my qualifications and my job and say I was way smarter than him. Of course he would go back on this and tell me he was glad I worked and contributed to the family.
I'm not sure how a parents r would affect wether or not he would return. At the end of the day, they are out in search of this thing that will make them happy. And they will probably continue to search until they realise that they need to do some work on themselves, if that even happens.
Andrews post was great on realising the importance of self. It's easy to fall in the trap of being your biggest critic, this is a trap I often fall in to. But you are important to many people, especially your D. You're showing her a fine example of a woman, you're keeping things together and working hard for yours and her future. When in this crisis mode, some lbs turn to a vice, or try to run from problems. You're staring it right in the eye and saying you will not be defeated, your interactions with h have still been with kindness.
Please go easy on yourself. This is a ridiculously hard thing to go through and you're doing great. Love yourself that bit more. You do deserve it
Hey Cherry, thanks for visiting my new pad and for congratulating me on my promotion! I have never in my life pushed for anything except this promotion because I knew I deserved it. However I was still surprised when my boss confirmed it seeing as I've spent the last few months blubbering in front of him at the drop of a hat!
It's times like this I really miss H. Also next week me and D are going to look at colleges (can't believe it!) and then she will have her prom next year. All these life events during which I expected H to be at my side :0(
Cherry, I understand there is something called Quarter Life Crisis (QLC) not sure much about it but maybe Job could chime in with any nuggets of information on that?
I do struggle with self esteem at the best of times so this has really knocked me for six. But apart from crying I haven't gone off the rails as yet and my only vice at the moment is this forum!
Hope you are having a good weekend! Xx
Hi Coly, I've been thinking about QLC too, as H is so young, my cursory reasearch points to them being very similar in depressive manifestation.
I did go to that work thing and it was somewhat of a disaster. People decided to be curious about our apartment (mine now) so that got awkward. Some don't know, some do. H got snippy about a few things, I validated, but yeah, next time will not bring him methinks.
OMG the wedding. Sat with 2 psychologists. We get to talking, turns out they are two LBSes (they loved the term LBS, used it the rest of the night since I'd defined myself as one) and said 'he's going to try to take you back! Don't do it! you're wonderful and move on!" They were so much fun to sit with.
We all go through life transitions, from adolescence, to 20's and 30's, and so forth. If a person is able to navigate the life transitions properly, they will not suffer from a crisis, i.e., it's just a blip on the radar for those who are successful.
Those individuals in their early 20's and 30's that have difficulty navigating their lifes' transitions will have a crisis and act out. It's all about growing up and leaving childhood/adolescence behind and facing the world of adulthood, accountability and responsibility. They often have feelings of being lost, scared, lonely, panic or confusion about what steps to take in order to properly become adults. Unemployment and choosing a career path is a major cause for young adults to undergo stress and/or anxiety. Early stages of one living on their own for the first time and learning how to cope w/o parental help can also induce feelings of isolation and loneliness. Marrying and becoming a first time parent can also create anxiety as well. These are just a few examples.
As I mentioned, if they do not navigate the life transitions properly or stop in the middle of the QLCs, they will have a crisis at a later time and usually it is a full blown crisis, i.e., the MLC.
This is just my opinion on the subject.
Thanks for they explanation Job. I was interested in Altair's comment about woman handling job disappointment much better than men, is that something you have found on here?
Journaling - having a meh sort of day today. Will be nearly three weeks of no contact and although I feel it is helping me stay calmer I really do miss H. I had a really good cry this morning and thought thatt would help but it hasn't really. I still feel sad. I just want all of this to be better... :0(
Journaling - had quite a nice evening. D and I went tho a college open evening as D will be going to college next September. Although D was less than enthusiastic about giving up precious friend time we managed to find some courses that she would be interested in doing so all in all quite successful. We also had dinner out which is very unusual for mid week!
During dinner we chatted about H. D revealed that she is still very angry with him. He called her yesterday and she let it go to voicemail. I told D that I was worried that she is confusing the breakdown of my relationship with H as being the breakdown of her relationship with him to. She said she understands that but at the moment she feels that him not giving our marriage a chance means he has not thought about how the break up would affect her. It makes me sad but I am not going to try and fix it at she is old enough to make up her own mind.
Still no contact for me from H. I think I realise that he really doesn't like me very much at the moment. This going dark thing is really hard but I don't really have anything much to say to him at the moment so every time I feel weak and I want to contact him I ask myself what is it that I want to talk to him about apart from our R and there really isn't anything.
I keep reading that I should trust the process but I am starting to feel very despondent.... I guess if someone has really shut the door on your marriage there is not much you can do about it... :0(
Coly,
You are really very new to all of this. A year or two is a very short time period to be dealing w/MLC. Yes, you do need to trust the process. Are you looking for signs that he's coming out of the crisis? If so, I hate to break it to you, but it's not going to happen any time soon. It takes years for them to process stuff. That being said, doesn't mean that they aren't working on their issues internally. Just because you don't see any changes at the moment, doesn't mean that things aren't happening within him.
Have faith, dig deeper for patience and most importantly...keep the focus on you and your family. Leave your h in God's hands.
Thank you Job, I guess I just need to stop taking things so personally if H is going through a crisis.
I hope he will understand that my lack of contact with him is because I am respecting his wishes for space and time on his own and not because I don't want anything to do with him anymore. This is tough....
Coly23 - I had / have similar concerns in my own sitch. In my case my W left asking for space and in the few contacts I had with her I told her that I was giving her the space she was asking for.
We can both just hope that they will remember that as they work through their own issues.
I do truly believe especially in my own case that pushing myself into my W's world would do more harm than good. I am confident that she knows that I am here for her if she wants to return and I would hope that your H knows the same thing. If I recall your thread correctly he was clear when he left that it was his own choice and that you didn't want him to go.
It is indeed depressing for us as the LBS to know that they are on a journey without us and that there is nothing that we can do that would not potentially backfire or perhaps worse, pull them out too early and have to go through it all over again.
Sending you a hug ....
Hey Andrew, I agree I don't think hanging around with my H at the moment would be a good idea either that's why I knocked family time on the head. He made the decision that he didn't want to be in our marriage any more even though I begged him to give us another chance so he knows I am open to reconciliation. I guess it's just those little doubt gremlins that invade my thoughts every now and again and stomp all over my hope!
It's very depressing that we absolutely no say in the decisions they made. I hope they start to realise soon what they are losing before it's too late...
Hugs right back at ya!
Oh thanks Altaur, hugs to you too! How's it going in your sitch lately?
Journaling - I had another IC session today. I think she's trying to make me accept that the reasons why H left isn't all my fault. I just keep taking the blame for it all when in fact he hasn't blamed me for anything. All he has said is that he doesn't love me anymore, however I obviously realise that I have contributed to the breakdown but without any specifics I'm just guessing. I think I just need to work on whatever I believe is wrong with me.
I always feel,so exhausted after an IC session mainly because I cry so much! I think it all felt very raw for me today after my evening with D yesterday. I just kept thinking that H should be at my side looking at colleges for D. It's just so sad that he is going to miss so much of her growing up. She's got her first boyfriend now as well. :0)
Hi Coly,
My IC is doing the same. Saying things like, look, you're not there and he's going to or is discovering that all of his unhappiness and problems have followed him, because they are within him. So let him suffer right now, because you can't fix him. She thinks this is a good time period, because H is discovering all sorts of stuff (or not) and obviously, focusing on self now is great. I would think this exactly applies to your sitch as well.
I'd *try* not to worry too much about your D- she has a bf, etc, sounds like she is doing well.
Thread hijacking: things are as weird as ever. Zero R talk. we instant message -- he sends funny videos and/or complains about job. He is taking me to the airport tonight (he offered). It's the twilight zone when I see the alien replicant. The alien replicant as of late comes 'round approximately once a week for a tiny bit, hugs me when leaving (but it feels empty, like I'm hugging a bunch of plastic and wires). My IC says he's in a terrible amount of pain and he's taking me to the airport because he needs to, it's for him. I have in the back of my head I'm being tested. Do you, Coly? I don't know which way is up or down. I still wonder if he's seeing anyone else/looking. In DB land, I'm doing great, because I'm being friends with H. Wish I knew what this all meant. Like you, yes, living in the "I don't love you anymore" state-- well, that's what he said many moons ago.
It's so painful isn't it Altair. All this dancing around the issue with the elephant in the room. I do think you are starting to gain his trust again slowly because his interactions with you are more frequent and also the fact that he is sending funny videos to you makes me think that it isn't all doom and gloom. is there any way you can subtly take the ficus off his work when you see/speak to him?
If he is testing you i don't think it is intentional. I can't remember who it was on here (maybe Cadet) who used the analogy of H being like a frightened little bird and you have to be very patient and gentle with him to gain his trust so he will eventually eat out of your hand. Quits cute really!
In my heart I feel that H has really closed the door on our marriage. I don't know if it is the NC thing that is making me feel like this but he has made absolutely no effort at all to contact me. I keep thinking he is glad to be rid of me so I'm actually making it easy and giving him what he wants. Rubbish!
*focus! Stupid autocorrect!!!
Coly,
I feel the same. I don't have that much hope for him to come back. There were just little things that were said that make me think so. I could be wrong. These days I feel like a sympathetic ear and the second a hot woman comes along he'll come out of his funk real fast and turn on the old him. But, I'll DB, seems like a good way to improve myself.
Coly
Ah, so here's where you ran off to.
It's not your fault, and it wasn't my fault, that our mutual spouses ran off but ... we sure can spend a lot of time second guessing ourselves .... I think there is some danger in DB in that it can make you feel like it's all a matter of us doing just the right thing when ... really ... quite often it's all about some emotional/mental/philosophical journey that our spouses have to go through.
BTW, some time ago I mentioned in your thread that I was a step father. I want to clarify that I didn't say to be defensive. I believe that your WH did love your D and meant all he said to her -- and I hold him to the exact same standard as if he was the biological father. And, if he steps up to that, I believe he did and will enjoy a rich, loving father-daughter relationship with your D.
Rock on, Coly... Cry if you have to, but laugh when you can, too
Hi All sorry been MIA again. Just finding these days I'm going back into a bit of a funk again.
Altair, why don't you be the hot girl instead!
Gump - welcome! Sorry I slipped past everyone and came over here. I don't even know for sure if H is having a MLC but I think he is having some sort of crisis. Yes you are right H loves D like she was his own daughter but at the moment she has slipped back into anger mode and rearly doesn't want anything to do with him. I am sad about this but I have to let them fight their own battles.
Journaling - I've been dark for nearly four weeks now and not a peep from H. It feels like he has just forgotten about me :0(. It's his birthday next week and I was thinking of sending him a card but then I collapsed in a heap of tears when I realised I dont know where he lives! Should I send him a card (to his parents) or just a text on his birthday? He sent me a card for mine but he knows where I live. IDK, I feel so lost at the moment....
Ah, Coly.
OK. How about a birthday text? I defer to the vets on this one. I, too, didn't know H's address. Bone crushing. Bank asked me, as we split up accounts. Of course, he was like, "Why do you need it?" (probably wondering if I was going to serve him papers).
Let's do this Coly! Dig deep into GAL selves.
Altair, how goes it with you?
It is bone crushing, heart wrenching., stomach churning... Need I go on! These people who we have trusted with our inner most secrets and thoughts now don't trust us enough to know where they live. I just don't get it! I'll send a text I think, that's probably best. D is adamant we shouldn't even send him a text but I don't want to not acknowledge his birthday at all.
I went go the gym today and it took all my strength to get out of the car and go in. I just wanted to go home and cry. Going to my older Sister's for a girls night tonight. I have four sisters so should be fun! Still I desperately want to speak with H, do you think I should start turning the light switch up to bring him into the light soon or should I stay dark until he initiates? Maybe I should see what reaction the birthday text gets.... ?
I was having one of those desperate moments today which came from my fear of thinking I have blown all my chances especially with going dark and I really wanted to text him. I think my emotions are cycling a bit this week...
Coly,
Why not do a text message that is very nice, but simple such as "H, Happy Birthday! I hope you have a nice day!" and leave it at that. No mushy stuff, etc. There are no expectations of a response and who knows, he just might text back...but keep your expectations low.
Coly, your h hasn't forgotten you. How could he? You've been together for a while and the memories that you shared are in his heart, soul and mind. He may give the impression that he's forgotten you, but he hasn't. Let me give you an example. My xh left in December 1999 and I met up w/him in November 2005, the day after Thanksgiving. He mentioned that he thought I would be out doing holiday shopping since that's what I use to do when he was w/me. I said no, I do my shopping now at different times. See? They do not forget.
Hang in there. I know it's tough not hearing from him...but you will when he's ready.
I agree with Job's suggested birthday text. Short, casual, nothing that hints at any deep feeling.
Thank you Job and Rose, a birthday text message it is then!
Job - I guess I am getting the 'Going Dark Jitters'! I keep thinking that I am making it easier for him to get over me but I guess if he really wants to be with me then he will contact me. I know I need to be patient but to go this long without any contact is very strange and hard but I know the alternative is seeing him and getting upset every time he goes back to his flat.
Next it will be D's birthday and then Christmas.... One day at a time....
It's one day at a time. I do understand the going dark jitters, but right now, his mind is on his internal pain and finding some relief from it. If and when he contacts you, be civil and upbeat. Treat him as you would a friend that's been out of touch for quite some time.
I know your right Job, my head agrees with you but my heart is rebelling and I'm having trouble controlling it.
My thoughts are all over the place today.
Is he enjoying himself?
Is there in fact an OW and she knows everything about me/our marriage?
If there is OW is he saying the same things to her that he said to me at the beginning?
Is he writing her the same letters/cards about his love for her?
Is the reason he has left so much of his stuff behind because he is too lazy or worried about having to face me again?
Will i receive D papers out of the blue?
Is he thinking of me?
To make it worse I had text trigger finger this morning! It hovered over my iphone ready to send a 'how's it going'? text. Aargh I'm being really stupid now because I know it won't help but I'm struggling to make sense of anything at the moment!!!
I know exactly how you feel! I was thinking and doing the same things many years ago. It's not easy, but you have to keep that finger off the iPhone!
I'll try to help you w/some of your questions. In some ways, yes, he's enjoying himself, but the euphoria of being on his own will eventually get boring and old.
There is the possibility that if there is OW in the picture she may know something about you, but not all of it. They tend to share some stuff w/them as to why they feel so unhappy and want out of the marriage. They do not share everything or the OW would be questioning why he left you in the first place.
There is the possibility that he's saying some of the same things to her that he did to you in the beginning, but generally, the discussions are about his unhappiness and they tend to be chameleons whereby they take up the interests of the ow. For example, if the ow likes a certain music, they'll start to listen to it, etc. They reinvent themselves to fit their situation at that time. So, most likely they will be talking about the things that they want to do together. However, they have been known to take the ow/op to the same vacation spots, cafes, etc., as they did w/you. Why? Because they are familiar to them and yes, they enjoyed themselves while there w/you.
There is also the possibility that he is writing letters/cards to her. Some even write poetry or music for the "sudden" loves.
As for leaving much of his stuff behind is not what you think. In some instances, it is a link back to you and your home and they use the excuse of coming there to get something to do a temp check on you and see what you are up to. In another case, it could be that he's reinvented himself and he doesn't want to be reminded of the past w/the clothes, so he's purchased new "hip" clothes that fit his current lifestyle. As for having to face you again, he could very well ask that you pack stuff up and put it somewhere easy to get to and come when you aren't there.
No one can answer the question about receiving D papers out of the blue because each situation is different.
He thinks about you often, especially when he's alone at night. How could he not? You've spent a lot of time together. He works extra hard not to think about you and the distractions during the day help him w/that.
About your temptation to contact him...don't! Leave him be. He will contact you when he's ready to do so. When will that be? No one can answer that question for you...but he will. Put a rubber band around your wrist and snap it hard when the temptations arises whereby you want to text him.
All of your questions are valid questions and we all ask ourselves these questions in the beginning. Your mind is working overtime and your anxiety is up. Have faith in yourself and the man upstairs. Find things to keep your focus elsewhere and know that the man upstairs is working on him. One last thing...breathe!
Hey, Coly! I've been following your thread, but usually don't want to just reiterate what others have posted so I stay quiet...I'm a lurker, LOL.
I've been where you are with the million questions driving me crazy. You suddenly realize after the punch in the gut BD that you don't know your S as well as you thought and that opens the doors wide open for all sorts of thoughts, questions, fears and...dramatic little stories that your mind spins to make you even crazier. Try to slow down (almost impossible, right?). A lot of people try meditation at this point. I could never get the hang of it, but ehhhh...its worth a try.
What if all of those things you brought up are happening/happened? You have absolutely no control over any of it. None, zero, zilch, nada. Put a rubber band on your wrist...snap it every time you have a thought like this. Or put in your earbuds, blast face-melting angry heavy metal and run very hard and very fast. Journal those thoughts and fears and write out all the positives in your life. Phone a friend and say "I need to go dooooo something, right now!!". My point is, going dark is very hard on us. We need to keep ourselves occupied and stop focussing on H at this time (almost impossible, but that's the goal). And to answer the question (which Job already has, really)...yes, he is thinking of you and has not forgotten you. He's probably wondering what you are doing and why you are not contacting him.
Funny story. My H came over at one point to try our own "mediation" (our D is almost done) and as he was leaving (we were unsuccessful as his offers were ridiculous), turned to me with a sad look on his face and told me he noticed that I had been trying not to contact him. Then said, "don't try so hard." He looked so sad and lost, it was painful to see. It confused me and ate at me, so two days later I ended up calling him. He was cold and made up a lame excuse about why he said it...just blew it off as if he just wanted me to call if I needed clarification on anything, which really was the only reason I EVER contacted him while going dark. But by then, it had been two days and he was able to control whatever emotion he was feeling before.
Yes, they think about us and miss us. Let it get bad enough that he reaches out to you. It will happen. When it does, be light and breezy. Secure and strong. Listen and validate. And be the lighthouse with no talk of R. Until then, GAL your tush of and try to have some fun. Just try. Leave him to stew, or as some on here say, bake. He isn't ready to come out of the oven, yet. So don't keep opening his door. Or keep watching it. There's nothing you can do to make him bake any faster.
Gosh thanks Job and Ciluzen. Reading your posts has given me much comfort and thank you for confirming that my questions are valid Job and for giving me an idea of what might be going on with the WAS. I think because H made the decision to walk away I am having trouble imagining him missing me or even thinking about me but as you say we have known each other for a long time and unless he has had his memory wiped I must invade his thoughts like he does mine!
As you can tell my mind is working overtime at the moment and I hope no one minds me posting here when I start to get anxious. I don't want to start sounding like a broken record and scare everyone off! H did reach out to D again today and I wonder if he is able to satisfy his need to make contact by reaching out to her all the time instead of me? That's one thing that worries me although she still hasn't responded to him.
I am proud that I managed not text him today and I will definitely take up the suggestion of the elastic band around my wrist! I remember that from a police series on TV where a police detective suffered from OCD and used it to control his anxiety. I didn't think to use it for this situation!
Unfortunately I'm not very good at relaxing or meditation. I can't even relax when having a massage! Although the only massage I have ever had in my life at one point the therapist actually had to tell me to stop talking and relax, it was very embarrassing!! Today I have been out in the garden slamming a fork into the dirt to get all that frustration out, I realise I need to do that more and I'm proud of what I have achieved without H! Me liking gardening was one of the lame excuses he used as to why he was leaving me because he doesn't like it therefore he didn't think we had a lot in common! It's taken me a while to face it again but I am slowly falling in love with it once more.
Ciluzen - your right I think I am going crazy with all these thoughts because I am doubting I know who my H is anymore and what he is capable of. He is definitely not the man I married. Also that was very mean of your H to point out to you about NC upsetting him and then backtracking! As we say the UK, they really are away with the fairies aren't they!
I know this time of darkness is an opportunity to work on me but I just worry that H might feel too much time has passed for him to contact me again. I know I should trust the process and I am trying to promise! I think it's just the weekends that are tough. I've got to try and find something to fill them up especially with the nights drawing in....
Thank you guys!! :0)
Coly,
I doubt he's having a blast in his sparsely furnished one bedroom flat. it's good though he is reaching out to D.
I'll add just a bit more to Altair's comment about him having a blast. Sure, it's exciting, new and fun to be "single" again, but that will get old very quickly. When he's alone, w/o distractions, his mind continues to whirl around and at that time, he has nothing to do but think about you and what he's done/doing. When they are alone, especially at night, is when the demons/thoughts come out to play. Some sit in their little rooms and stare out the window or at a wall. Some sit and cry and others toss and turn on the sofa in their beds, but they may run, but they can't hide from those thoughts for very long.
I wouldn't want to be in his head or be him during the crisis. There is a lot of emotional pain that they suffer from and it's there and the only way he gets relief is to run and find things that will make him feel better...but that "good feeling" won't last long and then he's on the move again, searching and searching for something to make him feel better once again. One day, he just might run out of things that make him feel better and he'll come to realize that happiness comes from within and he needs to look deep within himself to figure things out.
Nothing is as it seems right now when it comes to the MLCer.
You need to dig deeper for patience and have faith in the process.
Thanks Job, I'm digging in deep especially today and this is testing me to the limits! I am also sporting the latest designer elastic band around my wrist which I have snapped several times today already!!
It really is bitter sweet knowing that H could be feeling pain and guilt for leaving. I want him to come back but not because he feels guilty. I want him to come home because he realises he does love me but the longer he doesn't contact me the less hope I have for that.
Today I've come on here to read my thread a few times to give me some encouragement to stay positive. I guess the the only other thing I have to be prepared for is if and when he does contact me is that it could be to give me more bad news... :0(
Hi Coly,
Just wondering how the text went!
Hey Altair, I sent him the text first thing this morning as we were visiting with friends. I just did what Job suggest and texted 'Happy birthday H! I hope you have a lovely day!!' and three hours later he texted back 'Thanks Coly. Hope your weekend is going well'. At that point I wasn't sure if I should respond or not so in the end I just said 'Yes thanks, just got home'. Now I'm crying because I miss him so much and this exchange seemed so polite and sterile. I just want to see him and have a hug.....
I guess now I go back to being dark?
Coly,
I'm glad your h texted you back a response. Now, you go dark once again. If you don't and you begin texting him, that would be considered pursuit. Allow him the space and time he needs. He will contact you when he's ready to do so.
Enjoy your day!
Thanks Job! I will not contact him again until he contacts me but this has already been a long five weeks!
You have a lovely day too!
Hi Coly, I think you did well too. Incidentally, this year I noticed that XH popped up the night before his B'day this year. Hadn't heard from him for a period of time and he gave me a non-update that I didn't really need. I was glad because it opened the door for a reply and an incidental HBD. I would have felt bad not to wish him HBD at all.
Of course you feel in a spin, having heard back from him. The thing to do now is be glad he replied, and move on from that positive little interaction. It could be five weeks or more before you and he are in touch again, so do put him on the back burner as soon as you can (not easy I know...) I find it easy/easier now, but I am over 2 years in here - and D'd!
He's like that wild rice that takes forever to cook, meanwhile, you have veg and all sorts bubbling away on the front hobs that need your attention....
Xx
Thanks Sotto. I'm glad I did wish him but I didn't think it would make me feel so emotional. My heart just aches so much.
I know I will feel better in a couple of days time and I just have to accept that I may have to wait another five weeks of longer before our next interaction. It's just sometimes I'm not sure what I'm doing anymore. Am I standing for a lost hope because even on a day like today he is not really bothered about me. How can someone you have been with all these years have absolutely no interest in you at all. I just can't get me head around it.....
Sotto, how often does your H contact you?
Coly23 - I've been going through pretty much the same thing myself. It's tough and I think I've screwed up and pushed too hard in the last couple of days. I'm trying to do damage control now by pulling back but not pulling back too hard - if that makes sense.
It's funny - I've never met job in real life and only know her as words on the screen (I believe you are a lady job - hope I'm not offending by guessing wrong gender). She has a way of writing and giving advice that really works for me and I think it does for you too. Side bit - when a ship approaches a harbour they bring on board a local expert called a pilot. Those pilots take full and total control of the ship overriding even the captain. The captain doesn't need to know how to navigate the inshore waters, but needs to just trust the pilot. Neither of us know where this journey is going or what our destination is but having a pilot like job on our decks gives me and I hope you confidence that we'll be kept safe.
I find for me that the need to contact W builds and builds inside me. At the beginning I would come up with all sorts of seemingly valid reasons to contact her but fortunately was able to resist the urge most of the time. I don't think that just an elastic band would work for me like it does for you
when the pressure gets to be too much. If you do feel like texting / calling / sending semaphore signals try posting it here first and then sitting on it. I've done that a couple of times and it's allowed the urge to pass. Having a good and understanding friend to call as an alternate might help. It's helped me a few times for example to write to D24 (S22 isn't great at responding quickly) and just tell her that I'm hurting and lonely. That sweet girl will almost immediately respond with an ILU and an electronic hug which can pull me back from the brink.
You're not alone my friend - there are other ships that are just as lost as you. I hope that helps you like knowing you are working through the same things as me helps me.
Hi Andrew, thanks for you post.
I love your ship/pilot analogy and I agree Job is definitely helping to steer us in the right direction as long as you listen to her and don't do a stupid thing like I have just done and send another stupid text to H!
Me: Did your Mum make you a nice cake?
H: ...................................... (Can you hear the silence, it's deafening!)
Arrrgggghhh, I hate this so much! Why does he hate me!!!
So, that was one pursuit too many...don't get carried away and try to start a nice chat just because he came back to you. What happened before was a nice little interaction...which risks tipping into pressure if you continue the pursuit.
Just let him be. As for me, XH stopped contacting me as soon as our last bit of business was concluded. So maybe it's 3 months or so now? It's 2 years since I saw him, a year+ since I spoke to him by phone and more recently was just email.
My only piece of advice to you at this point is leave him be - don't initiate contact and just live your life. There is nothing to lose if you do that - truly.
Xx
Thanks Sotto, I am such an idiot! I knew as soon as I sent it he wouldn't bother responding. Right that's it I'm dark again!
Thanks for filling me in on your sitch. That's a long time for you to have not seen or spoken with your xH. Has he moved away? I hope it's not to painful for you to discuss it?
Again I think my fear and anxiety drove me to send that text. I just feel so hopeless all the time and then I read on one your old threads when you were five weeks into being dark someone said that if after two months there is no contact then the marriage is considered dead. This was from the book about distancers and pursuers (sorry can't remember the name but it had Solo in the title). That made me freak out!
someone said that if after two months there is no contact then the marriage is considered dead.
Coly23 - It depends on in what direction but I've certainly gone more than 2 months without hearing any responses from W. Even though lately more and more I've been feeling like giving up on my end I still don't think that my chances are dead. Yes - my old MR is certainly dead but I "know" that W is still attached to me and that helps me keep standing.
I forget which of the vets it was that wrote this - I think it was Cadet - it's only over when YOU decide it's over.
I have little signposts that I use to give myself hope that don't involve actively engaging W. Some of the ones I have are
- W watching my Snapchats. She stopped after the last bit of pursuit but may pop her head back out to watch me some more if I go quiet again.
- Her Facebook marital status
- How quiet she's keeping the A and our separation
- Contact and reaching out to our children and some of my relatives on Facebook
- No contact from her L
- Her regular review of our bookkeeping (cloud based - has a last accessed)
- Her being online as per Messenger when she could be with OM
- No abuse of our finances
- The "I am hurting and confused" posts I saw her make after the last pursuit.
I know that none of these are very substantial and may not be relevant or real nor do they point at her wanting to come back but they are my crumbs. Do you have anything you can use for yourself? I take these crumbs and put them in a box and look at them when I feel like she's gone and never coming back.
I think of W as a scared squirrel in a maze of tunnels. I may be wrong but I believe her to be very confused right now about what it is that she really wants and how to get there. If I bang on the tunnel like I did or poke my head in she runs away. You and I both need to focus on doing our thing and being quiet and a safe place for our spouses so that as they pop their heads out they can see that it may be safe for them to come all the way out and back into our arms.
I know that I've gotten into trouble for this from a number of the vets but I've made an effort to be sure that my W knows that she is welcome to come home and that forgiveness can be found. One of my big worries had been that she may feel that she's made such a mess here that it would be impossible for her to come back. Do you think that you H feels that or is he too lost in the fog right now? Just like you I fretted about "how could she possibly know if I don't tell her" - but vets like job have assured me that she does indeed know.
Hi, I would ignore the bit about NC for 2 months....what do they know! Yes, as soon as we S, there was distance involved. XH always commuted a few hours to work and stayed away a couple of nights a week. After a while we bought a property near his work as well as our main home. He got involved with OW who was a colleague and when we S, he decided to stay in our second property. Plus we have no kids together...so I think the odds for our M surviving perhaps weren't great from the off...
It's not at all painful to post about it actually - that's progress. Do try and lost the fear - I know it isn't easy. But truly, he is gone just now - so what else do you have to lose for the time-being? Leave him to his own devices and make plans just for you.
:)x
So, you touched the hot stove today and did a temp check by texting your h again. Now that you have burned your fingers just a wee bit, step back and just plain out leave him alone. He doesn't hate you because the only person he truly hates at the moment is himself. Sure, he may act like he hates you, but he has to build up this so called hatred in order to do what he needs to do to heal. Listen, he's not happy w/anything really. He's not happy the sky is blue, the people he works w/are nice or a person is making a left turn in front of him. He just plain not happy about anything right now. So, while he's baking up in the oven, you continue on your own journey.
Your old marriage is dead and you need to grieve that loss, but you can also leave to find the joy in living your life to the fullest. Each morning, get up and think of something pleasant and at the end of the day, reflect back on what you've accomplished and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at all that you accomplished. You have to have faith in yourself, God and in the system. If you continue to snatch the wheel from God, he can't drive the bus and keep a watchful eye on all those who are riding the bus. Step back, let it in God's hands.
Where is your rubber band? Get it on that wrist and snap it when you are tempted to contact him.
Thanks Andrew, Sotto and Job. H did respond in the end ('Yeah, a lovely chocolate cake!') but I've given myself a good talking to and won't fall into that trap again. Although he did eventually respond, the anxiety I feel when he doesn't respond straight away really isn't worth it. Bad Coly!!
Andrew, I don't really have any signposts except the fact that he has left most of his stuff in the house but nothing else to give me any hints. H definitely knows he can come back so there is no doubt there. He is very private and can be quite stubborn and not the type to drop any hints. He most likely would just turn up one day at the door out of the blue and I will know straight away from his face that he is looking to come back.
Sotto, it worries me that my D isn't connecting very much with H at the moment so our reasons to see each other has reduced by 100%. Maybe it's better that way because I hate seeing him and knowing he doesn't want to be with me. Also I'm glad you said to ignore the two month thing because that would contradict with the journey of someone having a MLC.
Job, it's hard to reconcile how he might be feeling with how he comes across in texts to me. He always sounds quite upbeat and happy however when I was having my small anxiety attack and crying my eyes out today I responded to a text to my sister in a very upbeat way so she wouldn't have known how I was really feeling at that point. I guess that might be the same for him too. It's easy to hide behind a text or e-mail.
I do need to accept that my marriage is dead. I'm getting there but if is a slow process.
I shall leave it up to God and trust in his higher power and get that rubber band back in my wrist!!!
X
Journaling - I've had a busy week at work so far. Lots of late nights due to not being able to sleep and lots of early morning as having to do a bit of traveling.
Last night I was dog tired and managed to fall into a deep sleep at about 11.00ish. Woke up feeling like I had slept for hours and thought it was probably already 4.00am-ish so would have about another hour to snooze before getting up for work. However to my suprise it was only 1.30am! What!!! And then so began the thoughts running marathons through my head so that was it on the sleep front. I had to used plenty of pick me up eye cream to disguise the suitcases under my eyes!!
Had an IC session today. Did lots of crying again but the C seems to think that I sounded a bit angrier and frustrated with H today. I guess that is true and maybe that's to do with NC and his lack of wanting to contact me. I think she sees it as me going through all the emotions and recognising what they are and why I am feeling them.
Oh well nearly Friday in my part of the world, looking forward to it!
Hi Coly!
Saying hello from very far away...
Me too on the sleeping poorly again. Was good for a bit, now not good again. I hope you can find some peace with your thoughts-- anything exciting you've been doing/ thinking of doing?
Hey Coly,
Just stopping by and getting up to speed. Thanks for your contributions on my thread. I appreciate it! The MLC thing is no joke and I feel for you and your daughter... ugh!
As you know, I went through about 2.5 months of no contact. Complete, total no contact (calls, emails, texts anything). I know it becomes cliche around here, but GLA helped me incredibly and it also made me kind of mysterious to WW (I think). It just helped me immensely. Doing things to improve my confidence was important to me so I focused on that during that time. I tried to make better eye contact, be more social and overall more confident. This was all started during that NC time period. Yea it as hard to not contact her, but I had touched that stove many times in the past and I already knew how it would play out if I did.
So that being said, after those 2.5 months, I was the one who caved and broke it after much debate here. I remember becoming so discouraged. I would read different situations here and the positive signs that different people would see. I was a bit jealous... I wanted a temp check more than anything in the world. I followed DR and started thinking about little signposts that I could take as positives. I felt like they were so lame compared to others and a desperate attempt to see positive signs. But DR says to look for the little things. I remember those intial sign posts pretty well (a little different than Andrews but in the same vain):
1. WW has not filed
2. WW responds to a text
3. WW attempts to keep text conversation going
4. WW texts me first for whatever reason
5. WW texts/emails me out of blue, for no reason, and for nothing that I said previously (if that makes sense)
6. WW calls
7. WW asks to meet
Slowly, she started checking these off. Very slowly. After the 2.5 months of no contact... we went late October until the very end of march to get to #7. I didn't see her for over 8 months. So what is my point? Was the extra text a mistake? Probably not the best idea but he did text back right? Remember to see the little positives.
Stay strong... I'll be keeping an eye on you. What's the plans for the weekend?
Pinn,
I think this is helpful for Coly and myself. Thank you for writing this up.
(driving up to Life drive-thru menu)
"I'll have a number seven please"
Hey Altair and Pinn! Thanks so muchfor your post Pinn, this has really helped me. I did actually read your sitch from start to finish believe it or not and I remember how your frustration at your W not making contact was so palpable. I was with you every step of the way!
I guess my concern is that he is actually happy not having to communicate with me so I am making it easier for him by going dark but then I can't see how contacting him will benefit me in anyway but to make me more anxious and sad. This is the internal struggle I have every day!
With the signposts you and Andrew suggested I guess I could add a few more. the only thing is I keep talking myself out of them and finding reasons why it wouldn't be a signpost!
1. H has not mentioned anything about getting a separation agreement even though I have suggested it;
2. H has left the majority of his clothes behind;
3. H has left a huge amount of his other belongings behind
4. H has responded to my texts albeit after a few hours later.
5. H told D that he can get out of his lease agreement at any time (believe half of what they say?)
6. H told me that if we were to work on our relationship he didn't want any timelines (again believe half of what they say?)
I don't know if some of those signposts are me scratching around a bit. Leaving behind his clothes and belongings could mean he doesn't need them, has gone out and bought more or is using the house as a temporary storage facility! Job says a lot of the time it's because they want to retain a connection to their old life.
As for GAL. I'm not doing much at the moment that is different to before BD. My D is trying to find her feet with some independence but I am worried if I go of and do stuff she will end up being a latchkey kid so I always want to be around to make sure she is not on her own too much. Saying that I am going to look into some classes at the gym which I try to go to straight after work so it doesn't interfere with making dinner etc. Also money is a big factor at the moment as H does not contribute anything so it means I'm about £1,000 down each month.
This weekend I will go the the gym Saturday morning, house work and then I'm sitting for my Sister's twins in the evening. On Sunday I have my parents over for lunch. I was looking into a drama group at our local hall but I don't know if I am ready for that as yet....
Happy Saturday fellow DBers!
Just doing a bit of journaling. Had a lazy morning as been up really early all this week for work and I'm axhausted. About to head of to the gym and then do a biit of food shopping for tomorrow's lunch with parents. D is still lounging in bed but that's teenagers for you!
I bought myself a dslr camera last year so I've been looking for some photography courses in the area and saw that I missed an evening course which stared in September at the local college - rubbish! I'll have another look around but I would really like to learn how to use it properly and it will get me out and about!
I also need to buy some more clothes for work. My trousers are literally hanging of me and if I use a belt I have to pull it in so much it looks ridiculous! I'm starting to worry that my anxiety is affecting my health as I've noticed my hair is falling out in big clumps when I wash it. Not sure if this is also to do with my appetite being up and down to. Some days I get by with only a sandwich and a piece of fruit if that.
Sometimes looking at gal activities makes me sad as it reminds me of the sitch but I know I need to do this as D is getting older and already the time she wants to spend with me is dwindling. I need to also think about all the vacation time I get from work and how I am going to spend it (25 days a year). I've never gone on holiday on my own and I hope I never have to but I have to accept that this might be a possibility as I don't want to keep imposing myself on friends and family. Although this might be acedemic as I won't have the funds go on very many holidays anyway!
Looking forward to seeing my three year old twin niece and nephew tonight as I am sitting for them. I will also get fed by my sister so that's a bonus!
Anyway need to get my sorry body out of the house before I get too comfortable!
Hi Coly, it may be worth contacting the college to see if you can join the class after half term. Classes always seem to lose some people, so they may welcome a newcomer.
It's not uncommon to lose hair at times of stress, and it may be worth having a look online for some advice about this, or maybe someone with more knowledge like KML may chip in? I always think it's worth focusing on the fundamentals - eating, sleeping, self-care, managing anxiety - and in time, these things again settle down.
As for clothes - during my long cash-poor phase, I used charity shops to buy new clothing items. I live in quite an affluent area with great charity shops. I only buy good brands and have picked up some beautiful things over the past couple of years. It feels good to dress for your size now - rather than feel everything is too big.
I understand on the holidays and I feel the same way. A couple of friends have suggested mini-breaks next year, which is nice. I do need to build up my confidence in this area and it is a goal in my little notebook...
Hope you have a lovely weekend my friend xx
Always have too many ideas for vacations!
I have seen some fun organized trips for women. I want to go on one that's more active--like hiking to Macchu Picchu, but I've seen quite a range.
I also want to do a meditation retreat.
Thanks Sotto and Rose. I've stocked up the fridge and cupboards today with lots of food because I realise that I can't support my D or myself if I am sickly and H definitely wouldn't want to be around me like this! Since H left my food shopping has been very minimal and only enough to make sure D is fed and watered adequately. I used to love cooking and cooked from scratch as much as i could. We had a few really good recipes to use during the week but now I can't face to make them anymore so I need to look for some new ones.
I'm hoping the holiday thing will sort itself out by next summer at which point I am hoping I would have moved forward enough to feel confident in whatever I do. I like the idea of an adventure holiday Rose!
I like the idea if the charity shops Sotto, I might have a look on eBay as well although I'm not very patient with eBay!
Had a good workout today and saw a yoga class at my gym which runs every Wednesday. Hoping it might help with my anxiety so I think I'll have a go.
Now going to do my taxi driver job and run D and her friend to the local ice-cream parlour. Wish I was 15 again!
Yes do the yoga!! it took me forever to finally do it and I love love love it! You also get to meet new people who have no idea what is going with you. I was able to get a whole new group of friends because of it. I am going to a yoga class now!
I would second the yoga recommendation. If you find a good teacher, I think it is one of the best things we can do for general wellbeing. I definitely feel a difference if I don't do yoga for a couple of weeks. The other nice thing with yoga is the yoga breaks option. I did a yoga weekend this year and loved it!
Good for you with the food. Maybe start slow and try one new recipe every couple of weeks to build up your repertoire again?
Xx
Speaking of vacationing alone and yoga-- there's lots of yoga retreats in beautiful places that you can go alone to! I've gotten some of the catalogues for years and I've had friends who have gone and loved it.
I've never been, but will consider that in the future for my vacation time.
Ah yes holiday and yoga all rolled into one! I will have to wait a couple more years before i can go away to one of these resorts without D as she is more of a beach babe!!
Just got back from the local shopping centre. Bought a lovely floaty dress for work and a nice shirt to wear with jeans. Stopped for a coffee and had a banana and walnut slice toasted with butter, yum!
Also picked up a 1,000 piece jigsaw puzzle which I'm going to start with my Mum tomorrow. D helped me pick it out which I was quite suprised about but I think she secretly quite likes a jigsaw puzzle!!!
(((Coly)))
I see you are over here in MLC, and I don't check over here, for not much reason other than the habit of only looking in Newcomers. I quickly read over your thread and am confused as to why you think he is having a MLC? If I recall he picked up and left, there has been no contact, and now your D is separating from him, however you don't know what he is up to or if there is OW--did I miss something?
The reason I am probing is because I want to caution you from trying to make sense out of his behavior as a way of invalidating it. Some people have As and leave their spouse or just walk out on the M and we don't always understand why. I think there is some subjectivity as to what a MLC is--some might define it in more extreme terms where as others might say that a person bold or depressed enough to walk out the way he did must be having an MLC--but either way he is gone and he means it. They all "mean it" in the sense that their actions are leaving the M, and MLC or not does not help in assuming if they will come back, it just means the journey could be longer. Job, is that wrong to assume?
Sometimes they come back around and often they don't. We cannot predict this. We can spend a lot of energy trying to analyze if they will, what they are doing, why, mind reading, etc, but none of that serves us in moving forward. The reason I started posting at all is because having come out on the other side now, I can see how I caused a lot of my own pain by focusing on WH and his actions. I see that you are texting him but it hurts you when he doesn't reply or makes you anxious waiting. My dear, please, please don't torture yourself in that way! You must have zero expectations of him right now. Protect your heart because no one else ever will.
That is how we begin to move forward. Let go of expectations of him. He is gone. Turn the focus into being the best Coly you can be and fill your life with love and support. I see so much postive in your sitch and that has nothing to do with him. That jerk picked up and left you and it's okay to be mad!
Start to slowly and consistently bring back focus to what matters.
-Coly
-her D
-her friends, family, people that love her
-an awesome promotion
-yoga
-puzzles
-something that brings you joy each day big or small
-fun plans to look forward to this week
-that home project or craft or whatever
But make this list your own. Edit and add as you wish. Reread it every morning and night. When you think of H or your heart aches for him, snap that rubber and and pull out your list for YOU. How can we recondition your mind? Eventfully your heart will catch up.
Trust me, you do not want a man that can up and leave you and your D. You do not. You want and deserve a man that values you and your M, that will stick by you in hard times, that is open and honest, and that is willing to look at himself and his actions. Until that man appears and is extremely remorseful, he can take that chocolate cake and shove it right up his arse as far as I'm concerned!!!
Look, my H has been back and done ALL the work. He is a changed man, good H, and wonderful father. I still have to deal with the hurt he caused me and my family. But I also know I allowed that. I allowed him to hurt me. I wish that I had protected my heart more.
You can start now. I know you can. Each week and month will slowly get better if you can start to take those baby steps away from him.
Blu
Hey Blu, thanks for stopping by, I'm glad you found me over here.
I guess I'm not necessarily trying to label him but I think a lot what he said sounds like he is having some sort of crisis. For example he said it was like a switch went off inside him and he doesn't feel like himself anymore and that life is too short. Coupled with his age I thought it might me something like MLC. IDK maybe I'm clutching at straws.
You are right though he did walk away and he has flaked on me and the marriage at the first sign of the bad times and that really hurts and I am mad! Mad that I took a chance on a man who had never had a long term relationship at the age of 35. I should have known but I took that risk and I gambled with mine and my daughter's happiness and that guilt is sometimes so overwhelming. But the hardest thing is knowing this fact and coping with and trying to accept the rejection of both me and our marriage.
Sometimes i fantasise phoning him and telling exactly what I think of him but that's not DB. I want to scream down the phone at him and ask him what I did to deserve this complete rejection, like I don't exist anymore like our marriage and our family meant nothing to him! I haven't spoken to or contacted him in nearly six weeks (except for his birthday) and he hasn't made one been of effort to contact me. Speaks volumes doesn't it! And yes I want to tell him where to shove his chocolate cake!
Me and D seem to be clashing a lot at the moment and I spoke with her today and said we really need to work together rather than against each other. She feels my pain and is also dealing with her own. We just seem to be angry at each other all the time and I know I need to focus on her and our relationship. I won't let him destroy that as well. She is a good kid, just trying to be a teenager but having to deal with the crap as well.
How do I let go Blu? How do let go of this pain, hurt, anger and complete rejection of who I am and everything we stood for? How do I move forward for me and my D when I have all the memories of our life together and hopes for the future imprinted on my brain. How can I be there for me D when my heart feels like it has been ripped out and discarded by the one person I trusted it with....
Coly- run, not walk over to pigpen's thread. He says to google pain, guru, and TED- and watch his TED talk (or just google) (scroll down, it's there!!) This is the advice we need, and exactly right now!!
Will do Altair, I'm running over there now... !
How do I let go Blu? How do let go of this pain, hurt, anger and complete rejection of who I am and everything we stood for? How do I move forward for me and my D when I have all the memories of our life together and hopes for the future imprinted on my brain. How can I be there for me D when my heart feels like it has been ripped out and discarded by the one person I trusted it with....
I feel that.
(((Coly)))
It is extremely difficult and it can take a long time. The more you focus on him and the hope that he will come back, the longer it takes. Thus the saying fake it until you make it--allow yourself moments to not think about him and the heartache and enjoy life. Over time those moments will become longer.
Have you ever lost someone close to you that died an unexpected death? Or really, any death that caused you much grief? This is similar in that it is the death of your M. Each person grieves in a different way and for different amounts of time. Sometimes long periods of sadness, hopelessness, frustration, then guilt, and even interspersed with humor and bursts of joy. You will find your grief pattern when you accept that he is gone and allow yourself to let go. I see that you--and many posters--have not let go.
Someone very close to me died right before I found out about my H's ea. So yeah, he was having an A with my "friend" while this person was dying and then died. He even had the nerve to drop the ILYBINILY cr-p while I was going through this. It was terribly painful and confusing. I didn't even know how to grieve because I was so blindsided by his behavior. The loss of my M was far more painful than the loss of the person because I also felt betrayed and unworthy of love.
I held on tight to WH for a long time. I couldn't accept that he was gone. Eventually I let go. And I can see now how much more it hurt me to hold onto hope. So I think step one is letting go of hope. That is the hardest step. Then you can grieve the death of your M.
Blu
Thanks Blu. I thought I had been grieving over the last few months but I always held on to some hope because I thought that DBng was to never give up hope. Will the grieving eventually help me to give up hope and let go or do I need to let go and give up hope first in order to start grieving the death of my M properly? It feels a little like chicken and egg, maybe that's why I'm in such turmoil.
Losing someone through death for me is in some ways a loss that is easier to bear. You most likely haven't been rejected by that person and you know, hopefully, that they have gone with love still in their hearts. Also your memories of them are full of fondness rather than the awful memories that your WS has convinced you of. I know it sounds terrible but sometimes I wish H had just died.
I completely see from your sitch that in hindsight letting go was the right thing to do because as soon so you did your H came back and you realised that he would have come back quicker had you let go sooner. I know at that point you didn't know this would happen and this wasn't the reason why you let go. I realise I need to get to that stage but I'm struggling to let go of the hope.
For you was it also a physical letting go as in moving all his belongings out or had he already done that? Do I contact H and tell him to come and get all his stuff? I'm afraid to do this as it seems I have done all the dirty work so far so it always looks like this is my decision.
I am so tired Blu of not knowing what is going on. Why can't he just put me out of my misery and move out completely? But it's like he's waiting for me to make the first move and make the decision for him but I don't want to. Isn't it enough that he has put me and my D through all of this without making me make all the decisions for him! IDK, maybe that's why I still have a little hope....
Coly23 - I think our spouses must be twins because it feels like we are both struggling with the same situations and questions.
I have no answers for you but you can at least see my mistakes as I'm a couple of months farther down the trail than you.
Sending you good thoughts.
Coly,
You can have hope and yet let go. DB is not only to help save the marriage, but it's to help you as well. You can use the DB techniques IRL. They help you w/communication and how you react to what is being said and the behavior. Letting go mean to leave him alone and allow him the time and space to work on himself. Letting go is taking your focus off of him and what he's doing and living your life. Letting go is not reacting to anything he says or does. Letting go is to help you continue moving forward. You will let him go and/or drop the rope when you are ready and yes, it takes time to do so. It won't happen overnight.
Grieving for your old marriage is not about giving up hope. Giving up hope is when you finally walk away, file for divorce and actually move on completely and don't look back. There is always hope when someone is in crisis. You don't know what he's thinking or doing right now and you are so very new to the situation.
As you grieve, think of all of the happy and wonderful times you spent together. As for what he tells you about your marriage and the past...it's rubbish. He's seeing the world through dark and dusty glasses. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid he serves up. You were together for quite some time, so you should know whether or not your marriage was a good one. Hold tight to those good memories and pull them out of your memory bank whenever you feel down.
I wouldn't suggest that you contact your h and have him pick up his stuff. If his stuff is bothering you, pack it up and store it in the garage, closet or basement. I would leave it right there because it could be his link to coming by to see what you are up to or if someone else is living there w/you for the time being. Now is a good time to think about redecorating and/or moving furniture around. Make your home your place now. You may be surprised just how much better you will feel by doing this.
You are a fixer and you want to fix him and the situation. You can't because you didn't break him. If he wants a divorce, then he should be the one to file. Don't make any decisions for him. He's a big boy and can make decisions for himself. The only people you need to make decisions for are yourself and your daughter.
Dig deeper for patience, continue to move forward and keep the focus on you and your daughter.
BTW, please start a new thread.