http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...;gonew=1#UNREADLink to my previous thread.
I'm ready for the weekend to begin. Just asked my S6 if he wanted to get a haircut tomorrow and he said yes. I told him I would take him because I wanted mine done too. My wife was shocked that I was going to get a haircut because I have always cut my own really short, but my hair has grown out and I figured lets try a different look for the new me. I didn't tell her that was the reason, but I figure a new look might make me feel better. I asked her why she was so surprised and she made a comment about all the changes I have been making. I didn't say anything, but I felt good inside because at least she acknowledged that she notices. I know it might not make a difference but it is nice to know that the work I have been putting in is at least noticed.
I also thought some more about my wife and the EA #2 that is probably happening. I'm not really mad that this is going on, but it makes me sad for her. I feel sad because she is so desperate for attention and affection that she is now in an EA with a guy that just a month ago she despised. I can feel like something is going on because when she got home the last 2 nights I get the same vibes I was getting from her when she was starting EA #1. I can feel she is hiding something and she seemed stressed right now. Like maybe she is feeling guilty. I was outside playing with the boys when she got home and she came outside but I could sense the stress and tension in her as soon as she walked out. Don't worry I don't have any plans to say anything.
Your first paragraph was entirely awesome until the last sentence. What do you mean "...it might not make a difference..." It was sounding like it made a difference to you, and making a difference to you is exactly how you make a difference to not only your wife, but to everyone you meet and know - that is the entire point of DB - to make the difference in you. Of course it makes a difference.
Your entire second paragraph was mind reading.
PS - I think its really cool that your son actually wants to get a haircut with you. I'm 41 and would not want a haircut with my dad, mostly because he is cheap and gets terrible haircuts. Pay bucks for it brother, I promise women notice nice haircuts on men, because they buy expensive haircuts for themselves.
CT118,
Thanks for the words. I see what you mean about making a difference to me. I think doing something new even if its as simple as getting a haircut will be a nice change in my life. Maybe just mixing up the routine that I always do will have a positive change in my mindset. I need to do more, but I have been trying to change my usual mindsets when it comes to things. Maybe step out of my comfort zone a little.
I hope you have a great weekend.
Eagle,
Whatever changes you make, you make them for you. You don't do them to get her reaction. Your journey is all about you and what will make you happy at the end of the day.
I promise women notice nice haircuts on men, because they buy expensive haircuts for themselves.
Wow - I get to disagree with CT1118 in part.
My own preference is to go to a "real" barber which is getting very hard to find now. I've been going to the same guy for over 25 years with two gaps when I grew my hair out the last one ending on BD2 when it was half-way down my back.
It may sound sexist (and completely off topic) but to me a male barber who is trained as a barber rather than as a "stylist" will do a far better job and at a cheaper price (I paid $18 today). And yes - I've been told that I look great
One of the reasons it's so cheap is because the barber is mostly just doing this for fun and for something to do while he counts down the clock until he retires and one of the last of his breed disappears from my area forever. He's fairly well off having been a barber with his own shop for his entire career and his wife has a comfortable office job. Right now he's on a plane for a couple of weeks in Europe with his wife.
One other things for us LBH out there is for the ultimate pamper, find one of the very few old-school barbers out there who does a proper shave complete with hot towels. Absolute masculine decadence.
We now return you to your regular program.
Hi Eagle.
Thanks for the words. I see what you mean about making a difference to me. I think doing something new even if its as simple as getting a haircut will be a nice change in my life. Maybe just mixing up the routine that I always do will have a positive change in my mindset. I need to do more, but I have been trying to change my usual mindsets when it comes to things. Maybe step out of my comfort zone a little.
What you may not realize just yet, is exactly what you are starting to do is the best thing you can do. Mixing things up keeps your brain sharper. It causes you to change focus and can be a good outlet for you during this stress.
Depression is thought to be anger turned inward. But it's also sadness at the situation. Try to work through those feelings because you'll have to feel them. At some point at least. The sooner you do, the better for you.
Your therapist is very smart and you got some great advice and perspective here. And I totally understand what you mean about talking to somebody who listens. I felt the same way with the IC. I can tell you that Job's words were very true in my case. My MLCr went to therapy but felt that there was nothing wrong with her. That's when the MC became my IC. My ex told stories to the C that changed each week. The C thought I was an abusive father, a monster, an ogre and much taller
But it was the third session when she took me aside and let me know she understood what was going on and began to help me regain my perspective. Without that help, I'm not sure I would have done as well as I did nor as quickly. Keep going. You'll know when it is time to stop talking to her.
And keep trying new things for YOU. That's the key - doing things for YOU and your son.
You may want to look at an old thread here - Caliguy. And see the changes in his perspective as he went on. I think you'll find it useful.
AJ
Eagle11 -
How was your day? Thoughts of you and your son's man. Had a great day myself, which included my boy, hope you might say the same. I may even take him to the beach for pancakes in the morning!
AJM,
I'm definitely going to keep going to the therapist. I am actually looking forward to the next session. She is going to start working on me more in upcoming sessions, but we have spent a ton of time on my M right now because of all the drama that seems to be happening every week. There are things in my past that I think I need to work out that I'm hoping she can help me with. I think things in my upbringing contributed to where the M is now.
Also, I will keep trying new things. I think I am going to sign my S6 and me up for a camping trip in October with his cub scout troop. This is totally not me. I have never been an outdoors person, I've always been a city boy. So this will definitely be out of my element, but I am looking forward to the challenge and bonding time with my son.
Eagle11 -
How was your day? Thoughts of you and your son's man. Had a great day myself, which included my boy, hope you might say the same. I may even take him to the beach for pancakes in the morning!
CT1118,
I'm so happy to hear about you and your S getting to bond. There really is nothing like it. I have a new appreciation for my kids now that I am going through all of this stuff.
I had a great day with my S6. My W had to go into work until 12 pm yesterday but after she got home I took my S and I to get our haircuts. He was awesome and I think we both are looking pretty good with our new haircuts. After the haircuts I took him shopping for some things for him and then a quick bite to eat.
The only thing I'm not sure about yesterday is that my W and I watched football yesterday together. Our team was playing, but she never really watched much of the games in the past with me unless we were actually at the game. She would often go to our room and read a book or something because she would say she was too nervous to watch. Well yesterday we sat next to each other and she watched the whole game with me. It was kind of odd and nice at the same time. We didn't talk about our relationship or anything. We just talked about the game and maybe a little small talk about nothing really important. Then after the game I was flipping through the channels and saw a movie I liked and she sat and watched that with me too. Our sons were in the room with us playing on their tablets. It was almost like normal.
Then this morning I got up early and went to the driving range to work on my golf swing. When I got home my S6 was upset because he wanted us to buy him some game online and for the first time I can remember my W told him no and sent him to his room because he was throwing a fit. She was explaining that you need to work for you money and you can't just get whatever you want. After she was done she saw me staring at her and I must have had a weird expression on my face because she asked what was wrong. I told her nothing was wrong but I never thought I would hear her discipline our son about money (my W has never worried about money and always bought whatever she wanted). She gave him a lecture that I would have gave. She just gave a laugh and headed off to the gym. Before leaving she asked what NFL games were on today (which is even more unusual than her watching the college game yesterday with me).
Great work keeping it cool. Sounds like you should keep doing what you are doing. You don't sound overconfident or results dependant, which is good. The MLC is a long road. I hope you keep it up.
I don't play golf, but I used to build landscapes on golf courses. I have been told that I have turned down free tee plays a places that people would chop a pinky toe off to be at. I do like golf landscapes, so breathe the fresh pair and enjoy.
Weekend is over now and Sunday was much the same as Saturday. I spent some time with S2 in the morning and then set up some sprinklers for the boys to play in during the afternoon in the backyard. My W joined me in the backyard to watch the boys play and then joined me to watch her favorite team play football in the late afternoon. Still weird sitch. Once again she sat next to me on the couch and watched the game talked. I do know she was texting OM #2 during all of this but didn't say anything. I have no idea what is going on with this guy. She was also texting another guy at the same time who she used to work with but I know that was about football. Maybe all these texts are innocent, but I don't know.
Anyway, I have to get my S6 ready for school. I'm going to try to stay busy with S2 most of the day and then take S6 to his cub scouts meeting tonight. My W is going out of town tomorrow for 3 days to OM #1 office. That should be a good test for me. I need to stay busy and keep my mind off what could be going on with her over there.
Maybe all these texts are innocent, but I don't know.
Cake.
She's eating a lot of it.
Cake.
She's eating a lot of it.
I know, I know. Part of me thought maybe I should get up and walk out, but we were having an actual good time watching the game together. Plus, I don't want her to think that I suspect a possible OM #2 because then she will realize that I snooped, so I just try to act like everything is normal. Honestly, I don't even know what they are texting about. It's best that I don't try to think about it because it won't do me any good. There is a good chance that whatever I'm thinking they are talking about might not be as bad as what they are actually saying.
I'm having a hard time understanding what to do here. I am trying to detach and get a life of my own and I think I am doing resonably well with that right now. However, one of my W's biggest complaints about me is that I haven't been there for her. She thinks I didn't ask her enough questions or try to engage her in conversations. She thinks I was self centered and only cared about myself. Some of this I agree with. Anyway, I have been trying to be more attentive when she talks to me. I have been trying to get to know her better by asking questions about her day, her past, etc. Yesterday, she started talking to me about some of the classes she took in college. I didn't ask her about it, but she just started telling me like she wanted me know her better. Almost like she was making some sort of effort. I might be reading too much into this, but she has told me that I don't really know her and she never talked about her past but in the last few weeks she has told me stuff that she has never brought up before (Both serious things and not so serious). I honestly have no idea what is going on in her mind and I probably shouldn't try to figure it out.
I'm having a hard time understanding what to do here. I am trying to detach and get a life of my own and I think I am doing resonably well with that right now. However, one of my W's biggest complaints about me is that I haven't been there for her. She thinks I didn't ask her enough questions or try to engage her in conversations. She thinks I was self centered and only cared about myself. Some of this I agree with. Anyway, I have been trying to be more attentive when she talks to me. I have been trying to get to know her better by asking questions about her day, her past, etc. Yesterday, she started talking to me about some of the classes she took in college. I didn't ask her about it, but she just started telling me like she wanted me know her better. Almost like she was making some sort of effort. I might be reading too much into this, but she has told me that I don't really know her and she never talked about her past but in the last few weeks she has told me stuff that she has never brought up before (Both serious things and not so serious). I honestly have no idea what is going on in her mind and I probably shouldn't try to figure it out.
It's a hard tight rope to balance one...
I would say that you take what you can, right up to the point where you are sacrificing yourself for it...
When you recognize that you are getting sucked in, then you walk away...
And then there is always ...
She is openly seeing OM, yet you are still there for her to meet the emotional needs that her OM isn't giving to her...
For me...one would have to go...
Are you comfortable with crumbs ??
Pick a side...
Let's see whats behind door number 2 Bob....
But that's just me....
Eagle,
While I understand where both Drew and Mach are coming from.
Enjoy the moments until you cannot.
I believe that this is an chance for her to see the new side of you to spend time together so see can see possibly even believe in her mind that you aren't the guy see has re-written in her mind at least for awhile.
Until you cannot do it any longer.
The texts, yes a bit disrespectful, but I will say the monster in your head of what they are actually about is usually a much bigger monster in your head than the reality of the situation. And even if the monster is a big one...do you need to see it? Since you cannot kill it right now?
I believe that this is an chance for her to see the new side of you to spend time together so see can see possibly even believe in her mind that you aren't the guy see has re-written in her mind at least for awhile.
Until you cannot do it any longer.
That was my door number one ^^^^
I believe that this is an chance for her to see the new side of you to spend time together so see can see possibly even believe in her mind that you aren't the guy see has re-written in her mind at least for awhile.
Until you cannot do it any longer.
That was my door number one ^^^^
This is how I am feeling right now. If she is actually initiating spending time with me and acknowledging that she see change in me without me saying anything then I am going to keep doing what I am doing. I will not go out of my way to spend time with her or act needy, but if she wants to with me it might be the only way to change her perception of me.
I agree with you Jack_Three_Beans, the monsters that I have in my head about what she is doing might be much worse than what is actually going on. I know I have gotten paranoid about every guy she is talking too now. Which is stupid, because she works in a male dominated industry so she is going to have interaction with plenty of men on a daily basis. Do i think its strange that she and this OM #2 have been spending an unusual amount of time texting? Yes, but I have no proof that anything is going on, and if I said something to her then I can't imagine what the consequences would be for me and my W's relationship.
you can call me Jack or J3B...
Jack_Three_Beans is such a handful (cause of typing, get it?) isn't it?
and if I said something to her then I can't imagine what the consequences would be for me and my W's relationship.
Well there wouldn't be cake.
Went to my sons cub scout meeting tonight where I got a little depressed. Saw several moms and dads there with their sons tonight and of course my mind wanders to my M or lack there of. I had a hard time concentrating and I was really frustrated at myself but I couldn't focus on anything else. I also was checking out the mom's at the meeting (not in a sexual way) and they don't remind me of my W anymore. These women seemed to be mom's first regardless of their careers and I can't see my W that way anymore. A couple of months ago I could see my W at one of these meetings interacting with the kids and giving it her full attention. Now I think if she went she would spend the whole time on her phone texting or scrolling through facebook.
When I got home my W was on couch with S2 watching football and drinking a glass of wine. I don't even know what started the conversation, but she tells me there are about 4 or 5 guys that consistently flirt with her. She said she doesn't know why, maybe it was all the weight she has lost. I wanted to say it might be the weight but it also might be the fact that you dress like you're going to the clubs/bars instead of going to work, but I kept my mouth shut. She will be out of town the next 3 days/ 2 nights (at OM #1 office working), but hopefully I can relax and take my mind off of it. In a way it was a good conversation tonight, because I can tell she hasn't really changed her mindset towards me even though we have been getting along well lately. I know she really doesn't want anything to do with me and I know that as long as these other men are giving her the attention then she will never be in a position to try our marriage again.
Also, I have noticed that my W's interaction towards me is different during the week when she has been to work. She is much more cold or distant towards me, but on the weekends she is much more her usual self. I don't know, but maybe all the attention she gets at work from these guys gets into her head,but on the weekends she just hangs around the house with nobody to flirt with except for the occasional text. She has said these guys that are flirting with her are older (mid 40s to 50) with families and that might be why the texts slow down on the weekend. So the weekends she is more likely to engage in conversations and hang out with me. I guess that might be cake eating.
My W made a comment to me last night that I act like everything is fine. I think she means that I am usually in a good mood around her and I interact with her. I don't know what she trying to say and maybe I shouldn't have said anything, but I told her everything was not fine. I told her if everything was fine we wouldn't be living like we are living.
Also, I mentioned in a previous post that she talked about 4 or 5 guys that flirt with her. She called 2 of them by name (they are the ones I refer to as OM#1 and OM#2) which I didn't know how to take. I knew there names but I didn't really want to hear it said out loud. She told me I'm to blame for all these guys flirting with her because I never bought her a new wedding ring when she lost hers. She told me not to bother getting one now because she wouldn't wear it (that was the last thing I would do). She also said we can't use kids as an excuse to stay married. I never told her we need to stay married for the kids, I told her in the past I would like to try to work things out and the kids were a reason for that.
Anyway we go to bed in a weird place and then this morning I go downstairs and she wants to show me something on TV that she thought was funny. She also told me a funny story about our S2 talking in his sleep last night. It's just weird how she can switch from being so serious when we last talked last night to being my friend this morning.
I took her to get her rental car today for her work trip and she was texting OM#2. She was trying to hide it but I could still see it was him without even trying to snoop. He was texting her some funny pictures. She reminds me of a teenage girl with the way she texts.
Went to my sons cub scout meeting tonight where I got a little depressed. Saw several moms and dads there with their sons tonight and of course my mind wanders to my M or lack there of. I had a hard time concentrating and I was really frustrated at myself but I couldn't focus on anything else. I also was checking out the mom's at the meeting (not in a sexual way) and they don't remind me of my W anymore. These women seemed to be mom's first regardless of their careers and I can't see my W that way anymore. A couple of months ago I could see my W at one of these meetings interacting with the kids and giving it her full attention. Now I think if she went she would spend the whole time on her phone texting or scrolling through facebook.
Moms at cub scouts. I was right there with you until I got to the second paragraph...and saw she was at home with your 2 year old.
Even if you guys were doing great, one of you would have been home with your two year old.
Even if she had gone she would have been texting...mind reading, and if your going to do that make it good. Even if she had gone, she would have been painting pentagrams and trying to summon devils to rain down vengeance on the enemies of the pack. THAT sounds cooler.
I don't even know what started the conversation, but she tells me there are about 4 or 5 guys that consistently flirt with her. She said she doesn't know why, maybe it was all the weight she has lost. I wanted to say it might be the weight but it also might be the fact that you dress like you're going to the clubs/bars instead of going to work, but I kept my mouth shut.
Glad you kept your mouth shut.
Sounds like she might be fishing for a compliment from you, I forget is that one of her complaints about the past?
Every interaction you have is a possible opportunity.
"Maybe because you dress like your going out to a club with $5 pitchers."
or
"You're a beautiful woman, I can certainly understand why."
or
nothing.
One costs you. One gains you. One is status quo.
I know she really doesn't want anything to do with me
The way you describe your weekends and that fact that she talks with you...sort of makes that untrue.
My W made a comment to me last night that I act like everything is fine. I think she means that I am usually in a good mood around her and I interact with her. I don't know what she trying to say and maybe I shouldn't have said anything, but I told her everything was not fine. I told her if everything was fine we wouldn't be living like we are living.
OMG...
Eagle,
with hindsight...
can you come up with a better response in your post below this?
OK so here are a few tricks that served me well.
First piece of advice is from Thumpers Mom.
"If you can't say something nice STFU!" I think thats what she said or something to that effect.
Practice things you are going to say. I mean it practice, say them outloud to yourself. Have a PLAN of how you are going to respond instead of letting your instinct take over, because your instinct wants to remind her with little barbs that you are hurting and this suckss. AND yes it suckss (haha censor!).
But you are going to show her that you are making the best of
a bad situation with grace and dignity.
Eagle,
Have you thought about giving your wife compliments on things she does and how she is dressed. Compliments go a long way when you have someone who is in crisis. I know you probably don't think she deserves to be recognized for doing some good things...but sometimes, it goes a long way. Maybe she is fishing for your reaction since she continues to bring up the om, and then again, maybe she wants you to take notice of her, as a woman and not just the mother of your children.
As for the cub scout meeting, someone would have had to stay at home w/the youngest child unless you got a sitter. You do realize she could have been out having a grand old time and left you holding the bag for both kids. Some do that.
Of course, the women at the cub scout meeting don't remind you of your wife any more...because she's not them. Right now, she's most likely in crisis and guess what...your wife is like the mirror image of her old self. She's acting like a teenager at times and that's part of the journey for her. The feelings she had for you are stuffed very, very low into her soul right now because the issue stuff has come to the surface. I know this journey is difficult, but you've got to stop expecting her to act a certain way.
Learn to listen to what she's saying. If you can that, you'll learn more about where her head is at at this time. You have to sift through the mumbo jumbo and believe me, they do love to talk and brag about the stuff they are doing. I get it, you don't want to hear it, but this is one of the keys that we need to learn...to be better listeners and dig deeper for more patience.
I agree...if you can't find anything nice to say, then don't say anything. The more you point out about the way you are living right now, the more guilt you are piling on her. You want to make your home a safe place for her to land and hopefully wake up some day and realize that you are the one she wants to stay with. The more negative things that you say to her, the less likely she's going to open up to you.
When in doubt, do nothing, say nothing.
Glad you kept your mouth shut.
Sounds like she might be fishing for a compliment from you, I forget is that one of her complaints about the past?
Jack,
One of her complaints was that I didn't compliment her enough on her looks. Whenever I did compliment her she wouldn't take it seriously because she doesn't have much self esteem. I guess I could have went for the compliment in this situation, but I honestly didn't know if I should so went with nothing. I am unsure how to give her compliments right now, because I don't know how she will react.
I know she really doesn't want anything to do with me
The way you describe your weekends and that fact that she talks with you...sort of makes that untrue.
I guess I didn't really look at it like that. I guess I should stop trying to figure her out. It's a losing battle. My mind is all over the place with her. Your right though, she could shut me out completely, but she hasn't. She just texted me to let me know she got to her work destination ok and wrote her back hoping her meetings go ok. She didn't have to do that. I know she said she wants to friendly for our kids, but she has had conversations that were even friendly when they were nowhere around.
OMG...
Eagle,
with hindsight...
"If you can't say something nice STFU!" I think thats what she said or something to that effect.
Practice things you are going to say. I mean it practice, say them outloud to yourself. Have a PLAN of how you are going to respond instead of letting your instinct take over, because your instinct wants to remind her with little barbs that you are hurting and this suckss. AND yes it suckss (haha censor!).
But you are going to show her that you are making the best of
a bad situation with grace and dignity.
I actually do practice things to say to her all the time. If people could see me walking around my house talking to myself they would think I'm nuts. Her comment caught me off guard as I never expected it. It totally came out of the blue, the conversation went from flirting guys to I somehow act like everything is ok. I didn't respond in anger, but I know it was a stupid thing to say.
We are all nuts in this can of MLC.
When she is nice, compliment.
Since you already practice, have a few easily used common sayings.
People with low self esteem, tend to need the compliments more, even if it seems like they don't like them.
Reminder.
Every (decent/good) interaction on her part is an opportunity for you.
Every single one.
Have you thought about giving your wife compliments on things she does and how she is dressed. Compliments go a long way when you have someone who is in crisis. I know you probably don't think she deserves to be recognized for doing some good things...but sometimes, it goes a long way. Maybe she is fishing for your reaction since she continues to bring up the om, and then again, maybe she wants you to take notice of her, as a woman and not just the mother of your children.
Job,
I have thought about this and I honestly don't really know what to do. I have wanted to compliment her on her looks, but I was afraid it would be considered as me pursuing her, which would push her away. I have not commented her on her looks since this started unless she has asked me. She is so self conscious and has low self esteem. I told her once that I can't win by complimenting her because she doesn't believe me and she admitted that might be partially true.
Learn to listen to what she's saying. If you can that, you'll learn more about where her head is at at this time. You have to sift through the mumbo jumbo and believe me, they do love to talk and brag about the stuff they are doing. I get it, you don't want to hear it, but this is one of the keys that we need to learn...to be better listeners and dig deeper for more patience.
I do need to listen better. I also think I need to stop twisting some of what she says. I think I sometimes overthink what she is saying if that makes sense. Sometimes when we talk she has our conversations go all over the place. Last night started about the cub scouts, moved to something she was watching on tv, then to these other guys, then to etc. She doesn't stay on topic very well and that's why she catches me off guard.
I agree...if you can't find anything nice to say, then don't say anything. The more you point out about the way you are living right now, the more guilt you are piling on her. You want to make your home a safe place for her to land and hopefully wake up some day and realize that you are the one she wants to stay with. The more negative things that you say to her, the less likely she's going to open up to you.
When in doubt, do nothing, say nothing.
This is good. I try to stay positive with her and I think that's why she made the comment that I act like nothings wrong. When she is not around you wouldn't believe the stuff I say about her or the stuff I'm going to do in regards to our M. I usually pull it together by the time we see each other and put on my happy face for her.
We are all nuts in this can of MLC.
When she is nice, compliment.
Since you already practice, have a few easily used common sayings.
People with low self esteem, tend to need the compliments more, even if it seems like they don't like them.
Reminder.
Every (decent/good) interaction on her part is an opportunity for you.
Every single one.
Jack I will remember this. I will try to compliment her when the time is right and it feels natural and not pushy.
I will try to compliment her when the time is right and it feels natural and not pushy.
Don't wait too long, Eagle. Not much in your situation is going to feel right or natural...So I sort of wonder when you might do that.
As for pushy? That's a judgement call. A simple compliment isn't like pressing for a date.
[quote]
Don't wait too long, Eagle. Not much in your situation is going to feel right or natural...So I sort of wonder when you might do that.
As for pushy? That's a judgement call. A simple compliment isn't like pressing for a date.
Jack, I will take your advice. If she looks good, I will tell her. I guess as long a I don't go overboard or appear that I'm trying too hard then it will be good. I have complimented her on other things since this all started but I haven't on her appearance because I just thought it would seem like I'm pursuing.
Hi Eagle11,
It is going to sound like an echo around here, but I have to agree with everyone regarding the cake eating that you wife is enjoying.
Good news that she is noticing your changes. She could be temperature checking you to be sure that you are still a viable plan B when things with OM #TBD don't work out.
You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
My mom texted me tonight asking if her and my dad can come see my boys in October. I told her I'm not sure right now. For anyone who didn't read my previous thread or doesn't remember I told my mom about the marriage problems early on and it was a mistake. She furious at my wife and wanted me to get out of the M. I also told my mom not to tell anything to my sister because my sister is impulsive and I guess you could say she is not afraid to speak her mind. My mom kept that promise for a couple of weeks but then ended up telling my sister who of course goes on facebook and posts something about my W (without calling her out by name). My W comes home and tells me what my sister said. My W doesn't blame me but asks me to talk to my mom about this. I ask my mom the next day about it and she blows up at me and calls me a bunch of names and other things. My mom and my sister also stop following my W on facebook and my sister makes another post about my W. My W complains to me again about my sister and decides to block both my mom and my sister from following her on facebook. The next day my mom apologizes to me via text,but I haven't really spoke with my mom since other that a few text about my sons.
So tonight she texts me they want to come down in October. I immediately think this is a bad idea. I don't want my parents anywhere near my wife. This would only make my sitch worse. My mom says they will stay in a hotel and come pick up the boys and bring them back to the hotel. I still tell I'm not sure right now. She texts me that she doesn't understand and I just tell her I'm sorry. She then questions if I even still have the boys (she must think my W took them away from me), and I assure her I do. She asks why I won't let her skype with them and I tell she can, but she doesn't write back. Such a bizarre situation and I regret ever telling my mom about this. I didn't tell her everything, but just enough. Last week my W actually asked me if my parents would be coming down anytime soon because if they were she was going out of town because she doesn't want to see them.
One other thing happened tonight. About 9:00 my W calls me from her hotel phone because apparently her phone went black on her and she can't get it to work. I wanted to tell her she might have killed it from the 500 text messages she sends on it everyday, but I was good and kept my mouth shut. She had this same problem a couple of weeks ago and I fixed it, but when she tried the fix tonight it didn't work. Anyway, she wanted to know if I could call her room tomorrow to wake her up for work. I said ok, but I'm wondering why she doesn't just get a wake up call from the front desk? Maybe she just misses my cheerful voice in the morning (that's a joke). I guess this does means there was probably no action with OM #1 tonight. I also snooped in the phone records after this call from her. I have been better lately but I had to see if she was texting anyone when this phone died and I discovered she had been texting both OM. They both sent her a text and then her phone died so now they are probably wondering wth is happening. I actually find it quite amusing. She is depressed because her phone died right in the middle of texting and the guys are probably wondering what happened to her.
Still, when she has problems she looks to me to fix them. She asked if I knew how to fix the phone for her. Then she asks me to wake her up in the morning. She could have asked the front desk or the lady she is traveling with to give her a call, but nope she asks me. A couple of weeks ago she got a ticket for apparently texting or looking at emails while driving. Guess who the first person she calls after the incident? She called me to complain about it.
Still, when she has problems she looks to me to fix them. She asked if I knew how to fix the phone for her. Then she asks me to wake her up in the morning. She could have asked the front desk or the lady she is traveling with to give her a call, but nope she asks me. A couple of weeks ago she got a ticket for apparently texting or looking at emails while driving. Guess who the first person she calls after the incident? She called me to complain about it.
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Have we discussed Boundaries yet?
Here's a link to boundaries info that Wonka created:
Boundaries: Cheat Sheet
Cake Eating...
I'm not sure guys.
I mean I know the definition.
But I don't see her interactions with Eagle as a bad thing. If Eagle can handle it.
To me that was the breaking point of cake eating...if the LBS couldn't handle the interactions.
Is she having a good time with other people and not Eagle? Yes. Is she getting something from her interactions with Eagle on her terms? Yes.
BUT
Eagle can get something out of these interactions. He can plant the seeds of doubt if he is smart and careful...and Eagle? Shuts TFU with the snarky comments when he does talk with her.
She could have called the front desk to have a wake up call.
instead she asked Eagle? Now I refuse to go into her head and try to mind read a total stranger...especially one who is in MLC crazy land...so no mind reading there. But other options easier on both of them and she asked for this one?
Take advantage of it.
I would have, I'd like to think, called her and been funny. Maybe done it in a french accent...something.
Eagle, yeah your in a bad sitch, you have opportunities to show her, that yes, you don't want this, but your strong and are going to be fine and your happiness is not dependant on her. It's a game that most certainly isn't a game, because in the end, that is exactly what we want you to be. And that person...that is the person that has the best chance of reconciling with a stronger marriage.
So...I'm hesitant to say...cake eating, throw down some boundaries dude.
Because boundaries...that's a hard line. It has to be otherwise you have no teeth, and your boundaries are meaningless.
I'm with Jack on this one. Her complaints about me are that I wasn't really interested in her, I didn't like to do things for her and I criticize her. I agree with some of what she said and not so much with other stuff.
As far as the wake up call. If she would have called me 2 months ago before any of this happened and asked me to give her a wake up call, I am 99% sure I would have told her to ask the front desk. Not because I wouldn't want to do but because that would make the most sense to me. That is part of the hotel front desk job and it makes the most sense. Last night when she asked I did look at it as an opportunity to show her I would do something for her.
Like Jack, I'm trying not to mind read here, but part of me thinks she is testing me to see how much I've changed. She knows how I would answer in the past when she would ask me to do that and maybe I showed her something last night by telling her I would wake her up. I called her right at 6:00 am this morning like she wanted and she thanked me for doing it. She said she was up late because she did a factory reset on her phone and was restoring it (I was really hoping she would have to go the whole day without a phone, it would drive her crazy).
I probably am mind reading but I really get the feeling I am being tested lately. She has started to talk about her past and I have been very attentive and have asked questions. I think she called me about her traffic ticket to gauge my reaction because in the past I probably would have upset with her for texting and driving, but this time I was calm and told her everybody makes mistakes. There are other little things here and there that she has told me that I felt she was testing me too. She made the comment last weekend that she noticed changes in me. I know it might not mean much, but it was nice to get that acknowledgment.
As far as the other guys, I'm not really sure what to do about it. I have thought about a boundary where I tell her that I feel disrespected if she texts them when I'm around, but I haven't said anything to her yet. Part of the reason is that I don't really know what they are texting about. I know OM #1 and her had some sexual texts that I read a month ago, but she swears that is over and they are just texting about work (I don't really believe her) and I've only seen 3 texts from OM #2 and none have been sexual in nature. I do feel its inappropriate that they texts hundreds of times a day but if I say something right now it will probably just drive her off to her divorce attorney so I keep my mouth shut.
I have been working on me and I have been working on the complaints that she has against me. I guess I'm looking at this as an opportunity like Jack has mentioned. I don't know how long I can last, but I'm holding on for now. I have had to walk away by myself a few times so I wouldn't say anything when I know she is texting and I have slipped up a few times.
My W is just so hard to figure out (and I guess I shouldn't try). I don't know how much thought she has given to all of this. I remember reading Sandi2's description of a WW in an A and how its like a drug that she knows is wrong but she just can't stop it. My W mentioned something similar early on when I first found out about OM #1. I asked her to stop with texting and she said she knows she needs to but she just can't. She mentioned last week that she knows she needs to stop flirting with guys and its doing her no good. So I think deep down she still has morals, but for some reason she just can't use those morals. The one night she was drunk and talked about her step dad that past away, she also told me that this wasn't my fault. She said she is just messed up and she knows she need to stop and get help. Then a couple of nights later when she was sober she said she doesn't need therapy and I'm the problem. The stuff she told me the night she was drunk I believe is the true her. She was hurting and not blaming me. She wanted my help, but seemed to not know how to ask for it. I told my therapist about this and she told me most of the time people are much more truthful when they are drunk because there guard is down. Now if I can only get my W to be drunk all the time we could probably work this thing out (That was a joke).
from J3B…..But I don't see her interactions with Eagle as a bad thing. If Eagle can handle it.
I think the key is “handle it”. I would word it a bit differently. I would say….as long as he “does not read into it”.
from J3b….Because boundaries...that's a hard line. It has to be otherwise you have no teeth, and your boundaries are meaningless.
I could not agree more. Having caught up on this thread….I believe that Eagle is too AFRAID right now to even think about boundaries. IMO, first he must face his fear and find Eagle. Find who Eagle really is, fix the chit about himself that Eagle needs to fix and right now….FEAR has him by the balls.
Eagle, I’ve caught up on your thread and you are getting some good advice. For what it is worth here is mine.
I really think you need to face the fear that your W right now is batchit crazy and much like a teenager will want, want, want. The crumbs that she are leaving you are giving you hope, which on one had is a good thing on the other is a bad one. You see, I believe that in your case (2 OM in the picture), you need to start really focusing on YOU – once and for all. J3B is right in that every interaction that you have with your W should be taken as an opportunity to showcase the new you. The only problem that I see, is that you view these interactive very differently than she does. I suspect that you want the M fixed NOW – whereas she really can take her time. She is in no rush.
DB is so counter intuitive…it really is. It truly does not feel natural. It’s almost as if your mindset has to be…….that you not give two chits if the WAS is coming back. That does not mean that you become an arse – no…you continue to use the opportunities that are presented to show the changes. The changes…that if done for YOURSELF are truly changes that run deep. They are the type of changes that stick. The changes that I think you are making right now…are probably just being made to get her back. So…she does not trust them. Add to the mix 2 OM’s and she is in lala land.
So ask yourself the question……..
Are
ALL of the changes that you have made really for YOU or are some of them for HER?
The ones that are for you KEEP ‘em….the ones that are for HER….let them go. Learn to be comfortable with who YOU are. Stop being so afraid!
Use the interactions as J3B has suggested but YOUR focus should be on living YOUR life. That means doing things for YOU, that means being a kick arse parent, that means continuing to work on yourself….
DB says do what works….
Is being a fixer to your W working for you? Is it achieving the goals that you have – for YOU?
Stop being afraid Eagle! It is a CHOICE that YOU can make. Much like J3B and yourself admitted i.e. the monsters in your head. The fear you have of what would happen if...... are also just monsters in YOUR head. Face those f*ckers and trust me....what you find inside yourself, about yourself....will be the best thing you do for YOU, your kids and believe it or not....YOUR W (regardless of the outcome).
So….in closing…..
Do me one favor…..
List ONE thing that you have always wanted to do but never did. This one thing should be achievable (not something like I want to purchase the Empire State Building in NYC and paint it Pink)….something doable, then….tell me how you plan to achieve it and WHEN you plan to achieve…it should be something that you can do in the NEXT two weeks. Yep…2 weeks buddy.
Oh…and stop stressing over the text. Honestly, this is where IMO, you start to say she is crazy and it is about time that I start focusing on me.
One more question….what is more attractive?
Scenario 1 – A man that is open, honest, sensitive, communicative that works out, spends time with his friends, is a good father, takes care of himself, smells good, dresses nice, has a life outside of the house yet is still the leader of the home.
Or
Scenario 2 – A man that is afraid, cannot accept change, worries, [censored] at being a dad, cannot say what he feels, is passive aggressive, has no friends or if he does barely sees them, has no life.
Which one do you want to be?
Oh…and before you answer….
Consider this…..
YOUR W does NOT make that choice! You get to decide who that man is.
Eric,
That is a post I am going to have to think a lot about before I respond to it fully. I understand where you are coming from and I think I am honestly afraid around her. I guess I'm walking on egg shells that if I screw something up then we are done. I need to get to that point that I don't care anymore, but I just have to figure out how to get there. You made some great points and I want to comment on them when I have more time to digest what you said.
I'm sitting here at this computer completely stumped on your question about something I always wanted to do but haven't done. Right now I feel like a man with no dreams, and that is not a good feeling. I need to sleep on this question because I honestly don't know right now. I think I have spent my life being afraid of taking chances.
At this moment I'm not really sure what I want in life. I know I want to be a great dad to my sons but other than that I just don't know. Sometimes I feel like I'm just here, but not really sure of the purpose. I will get back to your post when I have time to think about it more.
Eric,
I couldn't sleep because I was thinking about your post so I am going to try to answer it the best I can.
I think the key is “handle it”. I would word it a bit differently. I would say….as long as he “does not read into it”.
Thats the key and right now I think I am doing a good job at not reading into it, but its a battle I fight everyday.
I could not agree more. Having caught up on this thread….I believe that Eagle is too AFRAID right now to even think about boundaries. IMO, first he must face his fear and find Eagle. Find who Eagle really is, fix the chit about himself that Eagle needs to fix and right now….FEAR has him by the balls.
You are correct that I am too afraid. I will admit that I am scared that I will make the wrong move and I question myself everyday if I am doing this right. I wrestle everyday with the thought of telling her that I don't want to be around while she is texting OM. I have thought so much about confronting the OM. I have thought about telling the OM's wife. In the end I have always just decided to play the doormat and be there for her. I have often wondered (I know I should not try to get in her mind) if she actually wants me to speak up and be strong and tell her I will not live like this, but I am just so unsure on what to do.
I really think you need to face the fear that your W right now is batchit crazy and much like a teenager will want, want, want. The crumbs that she are leaving you are giving you hope, which on one had is a good thing on the other is a bad one. You see, I believe that in your case (2 OM in the picture), you need to start really focusing on YOU – once and for all. J3B is right in that every interaction that you have with your W should be taken as an opportunity to showcase the new you. The only problem that I see, is that you view these interactive very differently than she does. I suspect that you want the M fixed NOW – whereas she really can take her time. She is in no rush.
I don't know if I necessarily want the M fixed now, but I do want these OM gone now. I know this M will not be fixed overnight and that it would be a long road, but I also know we can't fix it if the OM are in the picture still. I guess I wake up everyday and just hope something will happen that will cause these OM to leave the picture. My therapist told me I can't win against these OM because they are just fantasies for her and I am the reality. I just need them gone, but I figure there is nothing I can do about that.
I need to work on myself and it is so hard when most of my day is spent worrying about my marriage. I wish I could just go away for a few days and just do something else, but with my role in the kids lives that is impossible.
So ask yourself the question……..
Are ALL of the changes that you have made really for YOU or are some of them for HER?
I honestly think most of the changes I've made are for me. I am honest with myself and I think the chances of our M getting back together are slim, but I wasn't happy with myself and I need to change. Also, if the M doesn't work out I know at some point I will find another relationship and I have to work on myself to make that one successful. I don't think I have been truly happy, but I don't really blame my W or the M. I just think I have things I need to work on. Things that I haven't really thought about in a long time that I need to address. I need to start talking about these with my therapist.
Is being a fixer to your W working for you? Is it achieving the goals that you have – for YOU?
That is the big question. I need to find some goals for me. I really need to focus on me and forget about her.
Stop being afraid Eagle! It is a CHOICE that YOU can make. Much like J3B and yourself admitted i.e. the monsters in your head. The fear you have of what would happen if...... are also just monsters in YOUR head. Face those f*ckers and trust me....what you find inside yourself, about yourself....will be the best thing you do for YOU, your kids and believe it or not....YOUR W (regardless of the outcome).
This part of your post got me emotional. I have to stop being scared. To be honest I don't even know how much I want my W back, maybe I'm just scared of losing her if that makes sense. I love her, but she has hurt me like no one else has and I've basically let her. Everyday that she texts those guys she is hurting me and it really pisses me off. I don't even feel like a man at times around her. She is in so much control. I'm letting her control this whole situation.
List ONE thing that you have always wanted to do but never did. This one thing should be achievable (not something like I want to purchase the Empire State Building in NYC and paint it Pink)….something doable, then….tell me how you plan to achieve it and WHEN you plan to achieve…it should be something that you can do in the NEXT two weeks. Yep…2 weeks buddy.
I'm not sure if this is what your looking for but I have been wanting to spend the day hiking. We have a lot of great places to hike around here but I haven't been hiking in probably 20 years. A couple of weeks ago I really thought about going one weekend, but I changed my mind at the last minute. Its not really a goal or a dream, but its something I want to do for me. Something I want to try. A way to get away from all this stress and just be outdoors. It's also something that would be out of my comfort zone because I am not really an outdoors guy.
Eric in your scenario you posted I definitely want to be the first guy, but my life has turned into the 2nd guy. I don't know what happened over the years but I am that 2nd guy now.
I also want to say thank you for your post. You made me think like no one else has. It was hard going through the post because I started to realize how much I don't like about myself right now, but I appreciate it. I wish I had you on speed dial for when I'm feeling down because I know you could straighten me out. Your post has me thinking about life outside of marriage and that I need to find myself. I need to make changes for me. Now I just need to figure out how to do this.
Quick update:
My W surprised us and came home last night about 9 pm from her work trip. She didn't call or anything, she was just all of a sudden at the door. She was supposed to be home late today. I was not expecting her and left my DR book on the kitchen counter. She saw the book and asked what it was. I told her it was just a self help book. Later on she was watching tv with me and during one of the commercials she asked about the book. She wanted to know where I got it or who told me about it. I told her my therapist recommended it. She asked if its working and I told her I don't know, but it's just a self help book. I always keep the book in a secret place, but left it out because I had been looking at it while she was gone. I hope she doesn't start investigating the book, but I don't trust her not too.
She also asked me about my therapist. She wanted to know what we talk about. She made some comment about if we talk about masturbating that I guess was a joke, but who knows wth she is thinking about. She said she doesn't like not knowing what the therapist and me are talking about and she said I always made her feel like sh*t. I calmly apologized if I made her feel that way in the past and told her it was never my intention to make her feel that way. Then I went back to tv show and tried to not talk to her anymore.
I'm also starting to wonder about her drinking. She drank about 3/4 of a bottle of wine when she got home last night. I know she drank a bottle last Saturday night and close to one on Sunday. On labor day weekend she got wasted on Friday night (that was the night she broke down) and she was drinking on both Sunday and Monday night of that weekend as well. She used to have maybe a glass or sometimes 2 but now it's nothing for her to drink the whole bottle.
She has also started talking about wanting a new car. She has always liked her car and had never made any comments about wanting to replace it. Now she told me last night the make and model of a high end car that she wants. I know with men in an MLC this is common but I don't know if women also want these types of things.
I'm getting close to the end of my rope with her. Jack and Eric posted about if can handle her texting the OM and I don't know how much longer I can go. Last night after I responded to Eric's post on here I was going to bed and as I walked by her room I saw her on her phone texting. It was 1:15 am and my S2 was sleeping next to her because he had got up crying. So she was laying in bed texting another man at 1:15 in the morning with my son right there next to her. I managed to get to my room without saying anything, but I think I am getting close.
I really think you need to face the fear that your W right now is batchit crazy and much like a teenager will want, want, want. The crumbs that she are leaving you are giving you hope, which on one had is a good thing on the other is a bad one. You see, I believe that in your case (2 OM in the picture), you need to start really focusing on YOU – once and for all. J3B is right in that every interaction that you have with your W should be taken as an opportunity to showcase the new you. The only problem that I see, is that you view these interactive very differently than she does. I suspect that you want the M fixed NOW – whereas she really can take her time. She is in no rush.
I don't know if I necessarily want the M fixed now, but I do want these OM gone now. I know this M will not be fixed overnight and that it would be a long road, but I also know we can't fix it if the OM are in the picture still. I guess I wake up everyday and just hope something will happen that will cause these OM to leave the picture. My therapist told me I can't win against these OM because they are just fantasies for her and I am the reality. I just need them gone, but I figure there is nothing I can do about that.
I need to work on myself and it is so hard when most of my day is spent worrying about my marriage. I wish I could just go away for a few days and just do something else, but with my role in the kids lives that is impossible.
I'm gonna touch on this part if Eric doesn't mind....
Well, I'm going to whether he minds or not actually : )
^^^ Up there, a few posts ago, when boundaries were brought up.
You said that you were going to go with what J3B said...
And I pretty much knew that would be your answer.
Why ?
Because it is the right choice ???
Maybe it is...
Moreso for you Eagle...
It was because it was the EASY choice...
It didn't involve YOU doing anything other than what you were already doing, or had done in the past...
Why ??
Because you are so filled full of fear, that you can't see anything other than what you THINK is happening, or going on, or going TO happen if you make a move. Be it the right or wrong one...
You say that you want the OM gone....
Do you really feel that THEY are the problem here ??
I would say that they are a symptom of the problem here...
But hey, what do I know...
Now I am not saying that you should run right out and get a OM1 and OM2 disguise kit or anything..
What do these guys have, that you are not projecting (not to her, but to the universe)...
Confidence ?
Strong decision makers ??
Things like that ???
Eagle, you are being pushed here, because we don't want you to be like them, or act like them...
You are being pushed to be better than them...
Stronger, more confident, more successful....
You are focused entirely on the wrong things, and because of that ???
You will fail.....
Not the marriage, not your kids, none of that...
You will fail yourself..
You are selling yourself, just for the sake of the marriage..
The boundaries thing, yea, you aren't there yet...
Boundaries are limits that you put in place, NOT to punish another person, but to protect yourself from toxic actions around you...
They need to be firm, absolute, and enforced..
Enforcing them is the most vital part.
Thing is...
You don't know who YOU are inside well enough, to know what is toxic around you.
For now....
Focus on the things that you can actually change...
Your thought
Your actions
Your self worth
Your goals
Your dreams
Your inner worth....
Think about Eric's questions....a lot. And when you are done, think about them some more....
Cause with what you just posted above....
There will be more behind this.....
Eagle, YOU are in charge of YOU....nobody else.
Stop letting your wayward spouse dictate how YOU should live your life....
Wow.
Mach just took the words right out of my mouth. Well, a lot more words than I would ever use but ....
I tend to be a little more blunt, put a little bullet point out there for you to think about and figure out on your own. So I'll sum it up:
Dude, you're getting out-Alpha Maled.
Confidence ?
Strong decision makers ??
Things like that ???
Now again, we're not telling you to flip a switch and go all caveman on her.
But I've seen this movie and your wife has pretty much the same ginormous cake mine did.
Shall I go on?
Can I give you a 36 year old woman's POV?
I am now 36 years old. A mom separated at 27, divorced at 29, with a baby. I've been essentially single since then.
It's been a gift within itself because I have had these past almost 9 years (aside from the few where I was just trying to survive) to discover ME when there was only ME. I know who I am outside of marriage at an age when people normally don't.
I have observations being in this unique situation along the years. Most M's that began young have gotten to the point around this age of struggle. They can't identify with themselves anymore. They don't know who they are an individual and are SCARED, or overly excited (leading to separation) to figure it out. The ones who got married later in life are having a bit o an easier time because they got to know who they are outside of relationships and marriages at a time when we really come into our own.
It is a tough time for both of you. Like I said, some are scared to figure out who they really (like you) and some are just too eager (like your W).
So what is your gift right now? As Cadet says, your gift is that of time. Now is the time to grab the bull by the balls (or is it horns?) and get to know yourself as an individual a little better.
Go on that all day hike. Just freakin' do it.
And Eric is pretty good at talking people off of ledges. His voice is actually quite soothing too.
And yes, guy #1 is most my ideal attractive man. Haven't found him yet, but I can say for sure, those are the exact qualities I look for in a partner. And partially, because the h ell I have been put through has given me the opportunities to become person number #1, myself, in woman form:)
Eagle
I guess I'm walking on egg shells that if I screw something up then we are done.
Brother….I get it. I did the same for a LOOOOONNNGGG time.
The key is to begin to really DETACH from her and from the sitch. I know it is easier said then done and we’re all here to help you get past this.
I need to get to that point that I don't care anymore, but I just have to figure out how to get there.
A little “keep myself honest” trick I learned……
BUT’s…. Usually the words that follow BUTS are the excuses we give ourselves. I keep things easy for us. Example:
I would stop smoking BUT I already purchased a carton….or BUT…. I am addicted….or BUT….I like to.
Can you see how we give ourselves the excuse. IF someone really wants to stop – they’ll stop.
I'm sitting here at this computer completely stumped on your question about something I always wanted to do but haven't done.
That should tell you a lot. Take your time man, this is a process. From where I sit you have a lot of work to do on Eagle.
Right now I feel like a man with no dreams, and that is not a good feeling.
Ahhh….if you only knew that all of the answers are inside of YOU already! Now, before I go on….do me a favor…..
STOP FEELING BAD ABOUT YOURSELF, YOUR SITCH, YOUR W….JUST STOP IT.
DB101 – Change how you look at things.
Instead of “I feel like a man with no dreams” (depressing)….look at it as….”I’m working to FIND my dreams” (Positive).
I couldn't sleep because I was thinking about your post
I find a nice glass of wine and a blunt work for me..just kidding… about the wine. LOL.
You are correct that I am too afraid. I will admit that I am scared that I will make the wrong move and I question myself everyday if I am doing this right. I wrestle everyday with the thought of telling her that I don't want to be around while she is texting OM.
And I understand WHY you are afraid. The texting of the OM….yeah it hurts, mine did it too. Here is the thing…. Why does it really hurt? Do you really think OM is better than you? He is NOT.
I have thought so much about confronting the OM.
For what really? So you can “show her”….so you can feel (for a second) “like you are a man and you will not tolerate this chit”. IMO, your not ready to do that just yet.
In the end I have always just decided to play the doormat and be there for her. I have often wondered (I know I should not try to get in her mind) if she actually wants me to speak up and be strong and tell her I will not live like this, but I am just so unsure on what to do.
1) YOU CHOOSE to be a doormat. NO ONE can make YOU. Psst…this is YOU not taking ownership or responsibility over what YOU allow in YOUR life.
2) Notice how you still factor her into YOUR decision process. You keep making it about her…her …..her…what she did …..what she didn’t do…. STOP it!
Sometimes brother….doing NOTHING is actually doing something.
Do you know what a lion does when it is injured?
It separates (i.e. DETACHES) from the pack, from the fight. It separates to give itself time to heal and then – it enters the field again. You’re a Lion dude. Stop, rest up for a bit and heal.
I don't know if I necessarily want the M fixed now, but I do want these OM gone now.
NOTICE the BUT…..
To mean the statement above indicates that YOU do want the M fixed……your excuse for the hard WORK that may make it possible is the OM. In part, because that allows you to avoid focusing on YOU.
I am honest with myself and I think the chances of our M getting back together are slim, but I wasn't happy with myself and I need to change.
Another excuse you are giving yourself. YOU say you need to change – yet you focus so much on her.
Fear has you by the balls.
She is in so much control. I'm letting her control this whole situation.
Excuses again….She, her, she has control…blah blah blah….
Look man, stop blaming her for everything. Stop blaming her for YOUR choices. Stop blaming her for your reluctance to really make this about YOU. Being the victim is easy.
I'm not sure if this is what your looking for but I have been wanting to spend the day hiking
Then honestly – go hiking!
Please take your time and READ the posts on your thread….a lot of poster have posted some very good insight.
I have one other favor to ask of you…..
Do me a favor and DO NOT GO ALL COMMANDO on your W right now. For now, just let her go.
Is she cake eating?
Yes.
What can you do about it?
Let me be blunt here.
You are in a bad position. She is the bread winner and pays the bills. You are the stay at home dad.
Before you read any further, I am in no way putting you down. I am stating facts.
What are your options?
Part of my advice comes from your circumstances.
So she was laying in bed texting another man at 1:15 in the morning with my son right there next to her.
Well it's not like she was asking him for advice on what to say.
If he wasn't right next to her, he'd have been in the room down the hall...and if you want to get REALLY mad your other son is in the house too!!
Eagle, you have every reason in the world to be mad and upset, the idea is at this point in time with your current "how the heck do I handle this part of MLC" is to NOT get upset, not get into fights and you're doing GREAT...right up until you start thinking that somehow her texting the OM near one of your boys is somehow corrupting them.
Stop using your kids as an excuse to get pi55ed off. They aren't. She isn't involving them, she is just texting near them. Stop letting this be your excuse to lose your crap.
Mach1, Drew, Ginger and Jack,
Thanks for all the advice. What I am getting from you all is that I need to get myself in a better place and not worry about my W or the sitch? It needs to be about me and not her. I can only take charge of my life?
I need to detach from the sitch. I need to become my own man and not worry about her. I'm hearing all the words, but I got to get myself to do it. I have a lot of fears in life and I have to face this one. We've been together for 12 years and I've probably lacked confidence for 1/2 of that time. I have some ideas of why I began to lack the confidence and I need to face those issues. When she had her EA 8 years ago I know I was different then. I was stronger and I actually think I was using some DB without even knowing anything about it at the time. I did detach from her then and other than the beginning I didn't beg her to stay. I don't think I was as scared then because I didn't have any kids. I guess the fear of facing this sitch with kids is what is making it so difficult. I was also younger then and knew that if it didn't work out, I would be ok. I know I'm still not old at 39, but it's amazing what my mind thinks.
I have a therapist appointment tomorrow morning and she has been great so far. I think I need to tell her to dig into me tomorrow instead of focusing on the M. I think talking about the M is a lot easier than facing the fears I have in my head about myself.
Tonight, my S6 school is hosting a picnic with games, music, etc. My S6 wants to go so we said we would all go. I think I just need to go and show I'm having a good time and not worry about what my W is doing while we are there.
I have a therapist appointment tomorrow morning and she has been great so far. I think I need to tell her to dig into me tomorrow instead of focusing on the M. I think talking about the M is a lot easier than facing the fears I have in my head about myself.
^^^^^^ Like
Also, I think I am hearing from most of you to not confront my W with anything? Just keep what I'm doing as far as acting in a good mood and to continue to show her how I'm changing when the opportunity arises? The detaching is just me not allowing the sitch to run my life?
Hey Eagle....
Something for you to read...I wrote this a while ago...
I wanted to share with you some of my thoughts over the past few weeks. Some of this may be a bit of a ramble; however, I believe that some of you may find it useful.
I have entitled this post….. The star is inside of you.
There is no magic bullet, magic pill, set of actions, set of words or specific post that can ensure that your marriage will be saved. Not one. The advice that you receive here will vary. Some will be very related to your specific sitch – some will not. I see a lot of people still focused on your spouse. Still focused on what they do, do not do, say, do not say, act, their actions. I understand this, I was there at one point too. What I feel is missing is the “work” that is needed to FIX YOU. We say often around here…”we didn’t break ‘em so we can’t fix ‘em”. So ask yourself – do you still believe that? Do you? Are you still worrying about every word you say, every step you take, every action you do? Do you still live a life walking on eggshells? Do you live in FEAR? Do you worry if you should leave the bedroom, take off the wedding band, make dinner, do the laundry, go to work? Does you every decision get run through a process where you think…….”what is my spouse gonna think or say”? Do you try and overcompensate for your crazy spouse? Do you do everything for the kids…to protect them? Have you totally devalued yourself? Have you tossed aside your own needs and wants? Do you walk around in guilt? Do you really think that…..that time, 10 years ago that your forgot the cranberry sause on Turkey day that it cause your spouse to wig out? If so, why?
I can go on and on about the stuff people have written, the post I have responded to and have read. Heck I was there too. IMO, the root of all of this is one word.
FEAR
When you come here…you are afraid, afraid of everything your spouse does, is doing, saying, etc. The answer to the issue though is NOT YOUR spouse – it really is YOU!
Stop for a second and ask yourself…..
Why am I afraid my spouse may leave?
Why am I afraid my spouse may divorce me?
Why are you afraid? Can you answer it honestly? Do you understand and know the root of YOUR fear? Yeah..yeah..yeah…I get it…”the kids”, “our family”, “our friends”……”the house”….”the finances”… I get it.
These ^^^ though are SURFACE answers. They do not get at the ROOT of the issue. Why are you so worry about the house? Do you think you will not be able to afford it? Do you think that you will not be able to maintain it? Do you love your neighbors? Do you just love that “woofy” your dog can walk around and all of your neighbor adore him? Stop for one second and ask yourself…… “what do these FEARS say about ME”. Can you see how you are devaluing yourself? Can you see how you may be assuming a deafist attitude? Can you see that in reality…..YOU WANT to CONTROL EVERYTHING.
CONTROL….. we like it. It is safe. It allows us to put everything in a little box. IMO, some levels of control KEEP US STUCK. They keep us from LOOKING INSIDE and facing OUR FEARS. So we cling to them. We figure out nice ways to hide behind them. Do you really think you can control everything? Do you really think that what you do, do not do, say, do not say….will CONTROL how your spouse acts? Now, I am not saying that your actions may not impact someone else. I am not saying that a love and compassion do not help heal, promote happiness, etc. No. What I am saying is that STANDING for your marriage does not mean that YOU ACCEPT that you are treated like dog poop. What I am saying is that YOU cannot spend every waking moment in FEAR of EVERYTHING YOU DO. At the end of the day, you cannot control your spouse. At the end of the day….NONE OF YOU, NO ONE ON THESE BOARDS, NO ONE….can make your spouse wake up, come home, become a better person. Some of you may say I know this. My response to you is….so what are YOU really doing for YOU.
IMO, doing the “work” is about facing YOUR FEARS. It is about, letting go of the notion that YOU can control everything. Doing the work…mean that you look inside. I will use my life, my journey as an example……
Some of you have read my journey, at least what was posted. I was an abused child. My mother was…well not the greatest. I was pretty messed up. At one point I become a drug addict. I was put away as a kid. I was homeless for a short period of time. I was broken. So…what does one do, HE CONTROLS. He controls how close he allows people to get. He manipulates his relationships, he keeps everyone at a distance. He carries around a ton of guilt. He lives in TOTAL FEAR and he USES CONTROL to manage that fear. He thinks….well if I am good H, or a good worker..that I can control the outcome of my job, my marriage. Now, I am not saying one should not be a good H, or a good employee. Nope. I am using this as an example of how sometime we control things. The control….keeps us from looking inside. Lemme give a few specific examples:
Specific to me….I tried to control everything. I’ve listed a few examples as reference for some of you.
I became super DAD. I did everything for my kids. My ex would leave at 5am and come home at 11pm. I did the laundry, cooked, cleaned, house work, a full time job, pick up and drop off the kids – pretty much a full time single parent. Although I do not regret it….i could have done things differently. Allow me to explain….. being as busy as I was with the kids, was in a small way, helpful in keeping me from looking inside. You see, I felt that I needed to protect them, I felt that I needed to control what they saw, what they heard, I wanted them to NOT have any pain from the divorce. I tried to CONTROL IT. ALL OF IT. Yes, some of you may say…it was for a good reason. My response to that is…was it? YOU really cannot control everything. The kids, will at some point FEEL this. They will feel the issue that are going on in the household. They will feel the stress of your spouse actions. YOU really cannot CONTROL it. You may think you can but all you are really doing is postponing it. Needless to say, I kept controling the sitch…take the kids here…make sure they did not see mom monster on me. The control prevent me from FACING MY FEARS. FEAR of what you may ask….
FEAR of….
Could someone like me really be a good parent, would the kids no longer love me, would the kids grow up to be F’ed up, fear of FEELING like maybe I was really a crappy dad, fear of what they would think of me? FEAR….that DEEP DEEP DOWN INSIDE…..I DID NOT BELIEVE IN ME! Yep…the deep issue that really needed to be deal with was ME. I did not believe in ME. I used everything else, the kids, my sitch, everything to HIDE from facing and learning about ME.
FEAR of….
Facing my role in the demise of the M. What did I do wrong? Why was all of this my fault or was it? Was I done? Why wasn’t I done? Why did ex wife have an OM? Was that my fault? To deal with some of these fears I controlled. I controlled how I felt. I did things, said things, did not do things….all for the sole purpose of getting my ex back. The bigger question was WHY? What was I afraid of? When I really started digging I did not like some of the answers that I found. I was fearful of: losing my house, change, change in my lifestyle, change in my income. Would I find someone? Could I find someone? Did I really love my w? What did love mean to me? Hell could someone like me even really love?
Finding the answers to these questions was painful. It required me to face every single one of these fears. It is no easy, fellow posters. Not easy at all. IMO, though….if you do not do it YOU will never really find your true self, your true happiness. When I started to dig, I realized – yes I did love my ex. Yes, I was capable of love, I also realized…..that I did not really KNOW how to LOVE MYSELF. That I based my own sense of SELF on what other thought, said, felt. That I had hid for a long, long time behind a viel of FEAR. When I finally learned how to love myself, learned how to ACCEPT EVERYTHING about myself….well then I was FREE. Free to choose for ME.
I have a seen a lot of poster post very similar questions ….
1) Should I leave the house? Should I leave the master bed room? My answer to these is this….WHY do YOU want to leave or stay? Are you staying because you are afraid? Afraid that you are not strong enough? YOU can! You are strong enough! You will survive this! Only though if you really look inside and UNDERSTAND why you feel the way you DO. It is only then, can you make choices that are NOT based in FEAR. It is only then that you can determine if you are done or not done.
2) Am I am done? I think I am done? I want to be done? MY answer – Define done. What does it really mean? Why does it even need a definition? Why put yourself in a box? Personally, I think it is our way of controling everything and as I have said….IMO, CONTROL is just a way for US to NOT have to FACE our FEARS. IMO, you can be done. You can change mind later. You actually do not even have to decide today, tomorrow….YOU can JUST LIVE. Live a happy life. Make a promise to YOURSELF that I CHOOSE happiness. Let go of the darn need to control everything. YOU CAN’t. Can you really control what your ex does? If you end up getting divorced – can you control what the judge says, his/her attny says – NO. YOU CANNOT. ACCEPT THIS! Instead of using the energy trying to figure out if you are done..use it to figure YOU out. Use it to understand yourself and accept your own fears. Use the energy to sit down and really figure out what you want and WHY? The star that you look for….the answer to all of YOUR questions is really inside of YOU.
3) Do I confront H or W about OM/OW? What do YOU really want to do? Better yet – why? What are you afraid of? Are you afraid they may leave? Are you afraid you will piss them off? Are you afraid they may file? Do you really think you can control it? FACE your FEAR! Why are you afriad? What is the root of the fear? Is it that you never really valued yourself? Is it that you are afriad if they leave how you will put food on the table? If so, is that who YOU really want to be? Dbing DOES NOT say you should be treated like crap. It is about health boundaries. Are you afriad to tell your spouse to stop texing OM/OW in front of you? Why? YOU matter! You are worthy of LOVE and RESPECT too. YOUR feeling do matter. Now I am not saying that you should confront today, tomorrow…what I am saying is UNDERSTAND why you are making the choice you are making. Cause if it is the result of FEAR – you have not address the real issue. FACE your fears.
I can go on and one with all sort of examples: The key point that I want to make to many of you is…..
Inside of you is a star! That star is your guiding light. Not me, not another poster. YOU. YOU are your guiding light. Ya just have to get past the fear. You just have to ACCEPT YOU, learn to LOVE you, Choose happiness over everything else. Find the issues and fears that you have and then slay them – one at a time. They may not go away today…but just knowing what they are EMPOWERS you to make choices that are TRUE to YOU. You are star! Every single answer to your question is inside you.
If you work on you – fully – if you totally commit YOU to YOURSELF, to healing YOUR core. You will be happy. You will have an inner peace and joy.
Stop looking at your spouse – focus on you and face your fears!
Life is a river…..it flows…it changes….. YOU can’t control it.
Tonight, my S6 school is hosting a picnic with games, music, etc. My S6 wants to go so we said we would all go. I think I just need to go and show I'm having a good time and not worry about what my W is doing while we are there.
I don't know how to do that fancy crossing out thing.....
But you don't need to SHOW you are having a good time, you should actually have a good time! Then it will show!
That sounds like a lot of fun and I think your S6 will have a great time.
Tonight, my S6 school is hosting a picnic with games, music, etc. My S6 wants to go so we said we would all go. I think I just need to go and show I'm having have a good time. and not worry about what my W is doing while we are there.
There Ginger, fixed it.
Drew is such a fixer. : )
Thanks Drew. You can fix me up all you want. I am in the fixer in my life, and I'm kind of sick of it.
I don't know how to do that fancy crossing out thing.....
But you don't need to SHOW you are having a good time, you should actually have a good time! Then it will show!
That sounds like a lot of fun and I think your S6 will have a great time.
Thanks Ginger, that is my plan for tonight. Just have a good time!
Eric,
I just read your post and thanks for letting me read it. Every time I read your posts it gets me so motivated and the doubts seem to go away. Unfortunately right now they still creep back in. I will need to read your post again and again for it to sink in. I know I am consumed by fear, I just have to figure out a away to believe in myself. I have been consumed by fear for a long time in my life and it took something like this to make me realize it.
Eric:
I find that I go back and re-read my recent threads every week or so. I've come a long way and you will too. Some of the advice we get doesn't sink in (at least to me) the first time around.
Have fun at the picnic!
Eagle
First off, I think AndrewP’s post above is directed to YOU not me.
I just read your post and thanks for letting me read it.
I hope you also read the post I wroter earlier #2704349 at 06:24 AM.
Every time I read your posts it gets me so motivated and the doubts seem to go away. Unfortunately right now they still creep back in.
Dude, you are getting a lot of stuff thrown at you. For what it is worth….you’re doing pretty good, given that you joined on 8/25/16. It took me a long long time to accept that I was scared chitless – you’ve done that in a matter of weeks. So as hard as some of us can be on you - be gentle on yourself.
Okay….now on to the much tougher chit….
Eagle – I’ve read your posts…all of them. You remind me so much of myself. Paralyzed by fear. Before I point out a few things, I think you should read my story. Maybe Cadet can post links to them.
Just to confirm, I believe you are still a stay at home dad – right?
If this is indeed the case, well then brother – I’d like to commend YOU! Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Thank you for moving the fatherhood cause along. I mean it.
Question: What type of work/income did you have in your 1st marriage and when you and your W were dating? Did you ever establish a career? From your post I gathered that you have been a stay at home dad since 2010. Correct?
Question: What was your childhood like?
In reading your story a few things popped out at me. Things that I believe can be addressed and set you on a much more positive course.
I am on my 2nd marriage. My first one lasted only 2 years and ended because my w cheated on me.
I suspect that the result of your first W cheating on YOU was never really addressed. Having had someone cheat on me, I know how much of a hit ones self confidence takes. So I wonder, were you confident as a child? Did you self esteem issues as a kid? How did you handle the first divorce?
As for why I say self confidence….this is why…
He obviously makes good money where I make none. He is retired from the Army or Marines so is probably more of man's man than I am.
First off, no one is more of a man that YOU. No one. Actually we are all different. You, me, J3B, Mach, Drew, Mr Bond….all of us are different. Neither “more of” or “better than” the other. It is a gift that each of us has – our own uniqueness. Remember – You brother are just like me…Unique in YOUR own way.
From where I sit…YOUR W is truly in a life crisis. So as hard as it is. I cannot stress enough HOW YOU MUST MAKE THIS, EVERY ACTION, EVERY DECISION…about YOU and what is GOOD for YOU and YOUR children. You must completely DETACH.
Your W has asked for a divorce 3 times, she has multiple OM, she has had EA’s, she has kissed one of the men (at least that you know of), by her own admission she has cheated in past relationships, she spends 1-2 hrs a day with the kids and even after all of this, she seems confused . This sounds to me like she is totally in a crisis mode.
These statement alone…
She said she wants me to continue to live at the house and take care of the kids just like nothing changed.
I should also mention that when she says she wants a divorce she doesn’t want anything to change.
Soooo reminds me of my ex. She wanted me to cook, clean, help the kids with homework, pick up, drop off, do laundry and then leave when she came home. They really just confirm that your W is more than likely on the crisis express. You cannot fix HER.
I am happy that you acknowledge that you are afraid.
I know I am consumed by fear, I just have to figure out a away to believe in myself. I have been consumed by fear for a long time in my life and it took something like this to make me realize it.
She never told me about this and I only discovered it when I found the lawyers business card one day a couple of months after the appointment took place. I never mentioned this to my wife because I think I was scared .
I understand that I have been weak with her and not wanted conflict. I just hate conflict
YOU see those three quotes up there ^^^^^^ I want you to KNOW that YOU can CHANGE these behaviors. YOU DO NOT have to live in FEAR.
I actually wonder if you are afraid to get angry.
I also suspect that the fact that you do not work has you worried about how you can continue to take care of your kids. Buddy….You will be OKAY man. You will. Your kids will be okay. Do not use them as an excuse to not face your demons (for the record I did it for a long time).
Question: Are you still in GA?
Question: Do you have a journal?
I have a lot more to say…err…write..but I wanted to give you a little homework assignment.
1) Pick up a journal – something to write in. Let me know when you do.
2) Post what your childhood was like.
3) Read my story. You can search by poster name..so look up ericmsant2 my name has never changed. Select the option “Topics created”.
4) Go on that hike – take the kids with you – even if it is only for an hour.
5) Answer the questions that I posted above
Finally, I sooooo wished you could see what I see in your post and in YOU. I see so much HOPE, so much positivity in YOUR sitch. I see you becoming everything you’ve ever wanted to be.
Have a good night.
Also if you click on a poster's name the option pops up for "view posts".
This is Eric's first one.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...002#Post1915002Here's the one that Jack_3_Beans had me read from when eric was ready to do nasty things to him .... sooo nasty .... don't bear repeating...
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...011#Post1944011PS - yes my post was directed to Eagle and not eric but eric - if you want to have fun at a picnic, go right ahead
Time for me to turn in to bed now.
Eagle11 - Wow, I just caught up. Have not had time or been with you since my comment on page 1 of the thread. Brother, you are getting some amazing advice - I am too and from the same actors. The following quip from 3Beans stood out for me:
"Practice things you are going to say. I mean it practice, say them outloud to yourself. Have a PLAN of how you are going to respond instead of letting your instinct take over, because your instinct wants to remind her with little barbs that you are hurting and this suckss. AND yes it suckss (haha censor!).
But you are going to show her that you are making the best of
a bad situation with grace and dignity."
You know Eagle11, I still practice what I am going to say, with one difference - it's not just to my spouse, but for me. What am I going to say to me in times where I feel challenged by my spouse, by others, by the self? What is my plan of action in those moments? What is the recovery plan if I begin down a road that I feel lost on? Or, even more important, after a lethal inquisition of the self following a much needed MACH1 challenge - what is my plan to change my instincts from one form to another - can I actually change instinct? The answer is yes, you can. I am not there yet to full capacity, but it can be begun, and I can choose to make it permanent. You - Eagle11 - can change the question as opposed to adding on to your current behavior. That is an important statement - you can change the question as opposed to adding on to your current behavior. You can my friend.
Eagle11 - what I personally see about the genius of DB; all these posts, reading the books twice, watching the videos, exploring other models -the genius of DB'ing is that it offers only one valid outcome for all these different variables. If you do the DB correctly, it is all about you being a better you. Not MWD nor any old poster here guarantees that this will results in us ending up with the women we fell in love with, had kids with, married. No, but what they guarantee is that if you listen, if you believe, if you put in the work, that hope and belief in ourselves - in our self - can be rebuilt. You can do this. I can do this. Those with signature dates years before us did this.
I believe in you, you believe in you. Eagle11 - Apollo11's lunar lander? One small step for man? You are the man Eagle11. I will be out for a bit after tonight, have a long weekend of paper writing and my son's birthday party, plus next 4 nights with him. Wanted to check your sitch, remind you that you are a leader, and that you have every right to chime in on my deal too. Be cool, be well. With you dude.
Quick update on the picnic tonight. I feel it went great and I had a good time. There was no drama. The W and I were good parents to our kids tonight and nobody would know we are having issues. It was nice to meet the parents of the other kids in my sons class. I had a good time. I feel the changes I am making allowed me to have a better time than I would have in the past. This was the sort of thing I would often dread. I am not really the type who likes to mingle with a bunch of strangers, but one of the changes I have been working on for me is being more outgoing towards others.
When we got home the W was drinking her wine and started to ask me questions about my therapy. I politely told her it was personal and I didn't feel comfortable sharing that info with her. What she really wanted to know was what my therapist says about her. I guess she is so self conscious that she is worried what my therapist thinks about her. I told my W my therapy was private and my therapist mostly listens to me without judging others. She also asked me what would happen if we couldn't reconcile. This one caught me off guard. I just said I will deal with that should it happen. Then she asked me if my therapist asked me if I love my W. I told her I don't think that has ever come up. My W then asks how do I know I love her. I told her I really wasn't comfortable talking about this right now, but I told her I did love her. None of this talk was in anger, it was all just a conversation.
Eric,
I want you to know that I have read all of your posts you wrote me. I appreciate the time and effort you have given to help me. I really do.
Also, I want to thank AndrewP for the links. I will catch up with Eric's story tomorrow and over the weekend.
Just to confirm, I believe you are still a stay at home dad – right?
That is correct. Been a stay at home dad since October of 2010. My S6 was about 10 months old when we moved to FL from AZ. My W had gotten a better paying job and we talked it over and decided I would stay home. He went to daycare when we lived in AZ.
Question: What type of work/income did you have in your 1st marriage and when you and your W were dating? Did you ever establish a career? From your post I gathered that you have been a stay at home dad since 2010. Correct?
I had a steady job during my 1st marriage. It was my first job out of college (I actually started it while still in college). The pay was good for being in my early 20's. My 1st W and I made about the same money. It was a job I stayed at until my current W and I moved to AZ in 2006 when she got a job opportunity there. Once we moved there I didn't find quite as good a job, but I did have a steady job until we moved to FL and became a stay at home dad.
Question: What was your childhood like?
Childhood was ok. No major drama during my childhood. Lived with my mom, dad and sister. Typical middle class family in the town where my mom grew up in. I was always a quiet/shy kid and struggled I feel with self confidence. I had friends but didn't really like to hang out with many of them after school. I was a loner most of the time when not in school.
In my early 20's (during my 1st marriage) I found out the guy I called dad wasn't really my dad. I have actually never met my real dad. I guess he got my mom pregnant while he was in college and didn't want a kid so he split. I alwasys suspected the dad who raised me wasn't my real dad but I was never told anything until one day my sister was in my parents filing cabinet looking for her birth certificate when she found a copy of mine and asked my mom why no father was listed on it. My mom calls me up to tell me. She said she figured I always knew, but she had never actually told me anything until I was in my 20's.
I was upset but like I said I always suspected it to be true. I have never had a desire to find my real dad. I don't want to know the man who left and never bothered to check up on me. I remember my mom told me his name, but I was so zoned out I don't even remember what she said and I have never asked her about it since that day.
I suspect that the result of your first W cheating on YOU was never really addressed. Having had someone cheat on me, I know how much of a hit ones self confidence takes. So I wonder, were you confident as a child? Did you self esteem issues as a kid? How did you handle the first divorce?
I guess I addressed the self esteem issues in answering the question above.
As for my first divorce. I was devastated when it happened. I was a mess. I remember being so depressed and I was going to a therapist who got me on some anti depressants. Part of my depression was I didn't know she was cheating on me until a couple of months after we separated. After I found out she was cheating on me I was very angry. I remember punching a hole in the wall and destroying a bunch of our wedding stuff (I was living at the house alone by this time, so she didn't know). It was my first love and I think her first love too, which might have made it harder.
Looking back, we didn't know what we were doing. We had just gotten out of college and were in love so we did what we thought we were supposed to do which is get married. They marriage was fine but I think immaturity and not understanding what it means to be married was what did us in. She actually ended up marrying the person she had the affair with and as far as I know they are still together with a couple of kids. I held a lot of anger towards her for a while but I forgive her now and I hope she would forgive me. If I saw her tomorrow, I would be fine with talking to her and wishing her the best.
I will say the problems in that 1st marriage were not really addressed. My 1st wife didn't talk to me about it and I think some of the problems my current wife has with me are similar to the first wife.
I dated a couple of women for a short time after the 1st marriage before meeting my current W. When I met my W for the first time I remember thinking that I better enjoy her while she is around, because she is way out of my league. I guess that will tell where my self confidence was at the time.
From where I sit…YOUR W is truly in a life crisis. So as hard as it is. I cannot stress enough HOW YOU MUST MAKE THIS, EVERY ACTION, EVERY DECISION…about YOU and what is GOOD for YOU and YOUR children. You must completely DETACH.
Your W has asked for a divorce 3 times, she has multiple OM, she has had EA’s, she has kissed one of the men (at least that you know of), by her own admission she has cheated in past relationships, she spends 1-2 hrs a day with the kids and even after all of this, she seems confused . This sounds to me like she is totally in a crisis mode.
I agree with you completely.
Soooo reminds me of my ex. She wanted me to cook, clean, help the kids with homework, pick up, drop off, do laundry and then leave when she came home. They really just confirm that your W is more than likely on the crisis express. You cannot fix HER.
I am learning the hard way I can't fix her. I think I am at the point where I don't even want to try. I feel I can be there for her if she needs me, but I have got to stop worrying about her.
I actually wonder if you are afraid to get angry.
There might be some truth in this. I used to get angry easily. Like I mentioned during the breakup of my 1st marriage and showed anger. For some reason with this W I have often let her get her way (although she will tell you the opposite). I don't know if it was because of what happened in the 1st marriage but I just don't want my wife to be angry at me.
I also suspect that the fact that you do not work has you worried about how you can continue to take care of your kids. Buddy….You will be OKAY man. You will. Your kids will be okay. Do not use them as an excuse to not face your demons (for the record I did it for a long time).
This is true. I am worried about not working. I have been thinking of a plan to get back into working and being able to support my kids. I have thought about getting jobs in the past but my W never really cared if I did. She would rather have me around for the kids.She wanted a parent at home with the kids all the time and didn't want to use daycare.
Question: Are you still in GA?
Yes
Question: Do you have a journal?
No, but I will get one this weekend.
I will research your story tomorrow/this weekend.
I plan on going on the hike this weekend. Hopefully this Saturday morning. I want to go alone. I haven't really had much alone time since this all started and maybe just being outside in nature will help me clear my head. I don't know, but I think I need some time for myself.
Finally, I sooooo wished you could see what I see in your post and in YOU. I see so much HOPE, so much positivity in YOUR sitch. I see you becoming everything you’ve ever wanted to be.
Thanks for telling me this and thanks for everything you have done for me. I really appreciate it. I don't know where I would be without this board and all the great people that are helping.
You know Eagle11, I still practice what I am going to say, with one difference - it's not just to my spouse, but for me. What am I going to say to me in times where I feel challenged by my spouse, by others, by the self? What is my plan of action in those moments? What is the recovery plan if I begin down a road that I feel lost on? Or, even more important, after a lethal inquisition of the self following a much needed MACH1 challenge - what is my plan to change my instincts from one form to another - can I actually change instinct? The answer is yes, you can. I am not there yet to full capacity, but it can be begun, and I can choose to make it permanent. You - Eagle11 - can change the question as opposed to adding on to your current behavior. That is an important statement - you can change the question as opposed to adding on to your current behavior. You can my friend.
This is interesting. I think I need to look within more. I am so concerned about my W and what she thinks and how I react to that. Are you saying you are reprogramming the way you think?
Eagle11 - what I personally see about the genius of DB; all these posts, reading the books twice, watching the videos, exploring other models -the genius of DB'ing is that it offers only one valid outcome for all these different variables. If you do the DB correctly, it is all about you being a better you. Not MWD nor any old poster here guarantees that this will results in us ending up with the women we fell in love with, had kids with, married. No, but what they guarantee is that if you listen, if you believe, if you put in the work, that hope and belief in ourselves - in our self - can be rebuilt. You can do this. I can do this. Those with signature dates years before us did this.
I am beginning to learn this from you and others on this board. In all honesty, I bought the book and found this website because I just wanted to save my marriage. What I am discovering is that this whole thing is about us, not our marriage. If we get to that place in our lives where we believe in ourselves then great things will happen. If we don't save our marriage, we will be fine as long as we've worked and bettered ourselves. This has been pounded in my head over and over since I joined here and it's starting to sink in.
I believe in you, you believe in you. Eagle11 - Apollo11's lunar lander? One small step for man? You are the man Eagle11. I will be out for a bit after tonight, have a long weekend of paper writing and my son's birthday party, plus next 4 nights with him. Wanted to check your sitch, remind you that you are a leader, and that you have every right to chime in on my deal too. Be cool, be well. With you dude.
I appreciate the thought and thank you for checking in.Everyone here has been so helpful to me. It's amazing how much a bunch of people on a message board that don't know me have taken the time to help me. Everyone here has got lives of there own to live, but they come into my thread and post amazing advice to me. I really am at a loss for words. When I posted my first post on here I was just hoping someone would take the time to respond,but the response has been overwhelming.
Have fun with your son this weekend. I hope he has a great birthday and thanks for checking in and helping. I really appreciate it.
Eagle,
I was always a quiet/shy kid and struggled I feel with self confidence. I had friends but didn't really like to hang out with many of them after school. I was a loner most of the time when not in school.
Can you expand on this? Why do YOU feel the self-confidence was low? Why be a loner? Are you more of an introvert and prefer to be alone?
I have actually never met my real dad.
Well that makes two of us and also explains why you are the dad that you are (very involved, etc.).
I was upset but like I said I always suspected it to be true.
How did you deal with being “upset”?
I have never had a desire to find my real dad. I don't want to know the man who left and never bothered to check up on me.
Not judging…..I just find it interesting that you have no desire to even know if he is alive. Something to think about…as you get older it may help to know what his medical history is/was.
Looking back, we didn't know what we were doing.
A life lesson that I learned…..it really helped me to forgive… the lesson is….
“people do the best they can with the tools they have at the time”
You were both young and did the best you could. The KEY in the above life lesson is to LEARN from the experience and where applicable NOT repeat the same pattern.
When I met my W for the first time I remember thinking that I better enjoy her while she is around, because she is way out of my league.
What actions or behaviors did you wife exhibit that caused you the think that she was “out of your league”?
I just don't want my wife to be angry at me.
Question…. Do you think that you can control how others feel if you just keep quiet?
I have been thinking of a plan to get back into working and being able to support my kids.
Thinking and
DOING are TWO different things.
I have thought about getting jobs in the past but my W never really cared if I did. She would rather have me around for the kids. She wanted a parent at home with the kids all the time and didn't want to use daycare.
What about what YOU want? You matter too!
I suggest that you start thinking about what steps you can take to get back into the workforce. I am not suggesting that you disrupt the entire family structure. Start to do some research and figure out what you would need to dust off your skill set and/or licenses required to work. I think it would be good for you.
Also, no need to announce it to your W. DB 101 – do things differently. Change it up a bit buddy.
I haven't really had much alone time since this all started and maybe just being outside in nature will help me clear my head. I don't know, but I think I need some time for myself.
Then TAKE the TIME for YOURSELF. Stop asking….stop waiting…just DO IT. I am not suggesting you leave the kids home alone. I am saying that YOU need to find the time for YOURSELF.
I have one other thing I would like you to do. Can you purchase the book No more Mr Nice Guy. It is 18.95 new on Amazon (12.95 on Amazon Prime) or 5.90 used. I think you would benefit greatly from the book.
Another read for you…Let Go now, embracing detachment by Karen Casey it is 13.47 on Amazon. I think they have an audible version as well. This book talks about BOUNDARIES and sorry to say dude, you have none. You can learn the skill though.
I am off for a weeks vacation but will be checking in on you.
BTW….who is the biggest email service provider in the world?
Let me know when you get the journal.
Peace
Eagle11 - thought my son would be with me tonight, he is not (that is a different story, not a negative one) so stopped by your corner. My graduate work is done for today, so here I am...
This is interesting. I think I need to look within more. I am so concerned about my W and what she thinks and how I react to that. Are you saying you are reprogramming the way you think?
Yes, to some degree, if that is how you wish to view it. I am saying you do not have to think the way you think. Perhaps you reprogram, perhaps you delete the program. What questions do you ask yourself? I gave you a few examples of what I ask myself - There is much expansion that could be done here. Ask me more if you want.
...I just wanted to save my marriage. What I am discovering is that this whole thing is about us, not our marriage. If we get to that place in our lives where we believe in ourselves then great things will happen. If we don't save our marriage, we will be fine as long as we've worked and bettered ourselves. This has been pounded in my head over and over since I joined here and it's starting to sink in.
You are in luck, I read what Ericmsant2 posted to you. It will sink in with a hammer very soon. The hammer will be in your own hand by the way, not Eric's, he will be handing you nails.
Something from:
I have thought about getting jobs in the past but my W never really cared if I did. She would rather have me around for the kids. She wanted a parent at home with the kids all the time and didn't want to use daycare.
What about what YOU want? You matter too!
I would not wish to interfere with the line of questions Eric offered you, but something was either left behind or intentionally passed - I will leave it to E2 if he wants to check me on the interruption, but: Above you wrote You thought of getting jobs, she did not care if you did
BUTShe wanted a parent at home and she did not want to use daycare. What is the committed answer? In this statement it looks like you blame her for you not getting a job, however you prefaced with she did not care. So, does she have a control problem or did you like staying at home with the kids? Was it more mutual than you stated?
PS,
www.thepennyhoarder.com : great ideas for small income from home. Some ideas suk, some don't, but worth looking at.
And sir - still wishing you the best of the best, especially on that hike - envious.
YI, I mystery shop for a "living"...... no advice for you other than to look into this. It's real (don't fall for scams) and not only do I have actual cash coming in but it allows me to eat out/go places that normally wouldn't be in the budget.... like 7 Cubs games this season. If you want advice on how to stay away from scams I'll be happy to give some advice. From one stay at home parent to another it's helped me feel like I contribute, have a savings safety net if H leaves again and allows me to get out of the house & interact with people.
Eagle - just checking in...
Hope you are okay.
Eric,
Everything has been good. I have actually had a busy last 3 or 4 days and haven't had time to check the message boards. Finally, everyone is in bed and I have time to catch up.
Can you expand on this? Why do YOU feel the self-confidence was low? Why be a loner? Are you more of an introvert and prefer to be alone?
I'm more of an introvert. I really enjoyed time by myself when I was younger. As I got older I tended to like being around people more, but I have never been one that likes to be in groups of people. I'm much more comfortable one on one or communicating with just a few people at a time. I think my self confidence was low because I don't think my family gave me the support that I needed. Unfortunately, I have never been the biggest self motivator and I need encouragement and I don't think I ever really received it from them. I also never heard the words love from them either. I know they love me but they never said it. That's one of the reasons I have always made sure to tell my kids and my W that I love them.
How did you deal with being “upset”?
I dealt with being upset by doing nothing. I never brought it up to my mom again. I told my 1st wife at the time, but never brought it up again. I also don't talk about it with my current W. I basically have held any emotion I might have in since the day I found out.
Not judging…..I just find it interesting that you have no desire to even know if he is alive. Something to think about…as you get older it may help to know what his medical history is/was.
I had therapist I was going to during my 1st divorce tell me this same thing, but I honestly have no desire to meet the man. My W doesn't understand and thinks I should seek him out, but I really don't think about it much. I guess I feel since he abandoned me as soon as he found out my mom was pregnant I don't feel like wasting my time. I don't even know his name. My mom told me it the day she told me, but I honestly don't remember what it is. I think I was in shock or something and don't really remember the details of our converstation.
You were both young and did the best you could. The KEY in the above life lesson is to LEARN from the experience and where applicable NOT repeat the same pattern.
This is the part that frustrates me. I never really understood at the time what went wrong. I wish I would have dug into what the problems were in the 1st marriage, but I never did. I was young and immature at the time. I blamed her and she blamed me. There was a lot of hurt and anger at the time, but like I said earlier I would forgive her if I ever saw her again.
What actions or behaviors did you wife exhibit that caused you the think that she was “out of your league”?
No actions. She was just the most beautiful women I had ever dated. She was so fun and a free spirit. I wasn't dating ugly women at the time, but my W was a step up in the beauty department though. I just didn't have the self confidence to think that she could fall in love with me.
Question…. Do you think that you can control how others feel if you just keep quiet?
No. I see what you are saying. If I keep quiet how can I expect her to understand me and what I am feeling.
I have thought about getting jobs in the past but my W never really cared if I did. She would rather have me around for the kids. She wanted a parent at home with the kids all the time and didn't want to use daycare.
What about what YOU want? You matter too!
This is a dilemma I have had for some time. I have often thought about getting back to work, but then I care so much for the kids. I thought I would go back to work one our S6 started school, but then we had another S. He was born 2 month prematurely and spent about 5 weeks in the hospital before we could bring him home. When he was born he weighed 3.8 lbs and I could hold him in one hand. I didn't know if he would make it. Everyday I spend with him I consider a blessing and hate to be away from him. He is doing great now. He has finally caught up with other kids his age in size and other than some speech issues that he is going to therapy for you would never know he was born early. I just think it would be hard for me to take him to daycare for 10 hours a day. I can't explain it, but if I stayed married I would continue to stay home with him until he started school. Of course I know I am going to have to start looking into the process of daycare for him and work for me. I have already looked into daycare rates and what daycares offer after school programs for my S6.
The thought of being away from my kids is what scares me the most in all of this. I have basically been a single dad during the week for most of their lives because of my W's work schedule. Maybe I should feel relieved about the possibility of have a few days a week for myself if we get a D, but I want to see my kids everyday. They have been the one constant in my life the last 6 1/2 years. I just can't imagine not being there everyday for them.
I have one other thing I would like you to do. Can you purchase the book No more Mr Nice Guy. It is 18.95 new on Amazon (12.95 on Amazon Prime) or 5.90 used. I think you would benefit greatly from the book.
Another read for you…Let Go now, embracing detachment by Karen Casey it is 13.47 on Amazon. I think they have an audible version as well. This book talks about BOUNDARIES and sorry to say dude, you have none. You can learn the skill though.
No More Mr. Nice Guy just purchased. Will get the other book soon.
BTW….who is the biggest email service provider in the world?
Gmail?
Let me know when you get the journal.
I picked one up
CT1118,
Just checking back into the boards after a busy last few days for me. How was your weekend? Did everything go ok with your son?
I would not wish to interfere with the line of questions Eric offered you, but something was either left behind or intentionally passed - I will leave it to E2 if he wants to check me on the interruption, but: Above you wrote You thought of getting jobs, she did not care if you did BUTShe wanted a parent at home and she did not want to use daycare. What is the committed answer? In this statement it looks like you blame her for you not getting a job, however you prefaced with she did not care. So, does she have a control problem or did you like staying at home with the kids? Was it more mutual than you stated?
She doesn't have a control problem with the kids and I generally love to stay home with them.
When we moved to FL and she got a higher paying job she was the one who suggested I stay home so we wouldn't have to send our S to daycare like he had been going. I was excited for this because at the time I thought this would be easy. After a couple of months I realized this was a lot harder than I thought. I stuck with it and as we moved around I grew more comfortable, but I don't think I was the best stay at home dad to our older son because I wasn't really sure what I was doing or if I wanted to do it. I never brought it up to my W though. I don't think I was scared to talk to her about it, but maybe I felt like I might be viewed as a failure.
Anyway, in my post above to Eric I mentioned that my younger son was born 2 months early and spent 5 weeks in the hospital before he got to come home. Even after he came home he would still have issues from time to time. With this son I think I finally realized what I was doing by being a stay home parent. I could see how much he needed me and I found something with him that I didn't have before.
This is hard to explain and I hope it doesn't come across that I love one son more than the other because that is not the case. I just think with my second S and all the trauma it made me realize what it means to be a dad and to really have someones life depend on me. Anyway, once my second S was born I feel I became a much better stay home parent to both my boys and I began to really enjoy staying with them everyday. I became proud to be a stay home dad.
PS,
www.thepennyhoarder.com : great ideas for small income from home. Some ideas suk, some don't, but worth looking at.
I will look into this. Thanks for the link.
YI, I mystery shop for a "living"...... no advice for you other than to look into this. It's real (don't fall for scams) and not only do I have actual cash coming in but it allows me to eat out/go places that normally wouldn't be in the budget.... like 7 Cubs games this season. If you want advice on how to stay away from scams I'll be happy to give some advice. From one stay at home parent to another it's helped me feel like I contribute, have a savings safety net if H leaves again and allows me to get out of the house & interact with people.
Twinmom,
Thanks for the advice. I will look into mystery shopping. I do need to find a way to make some extra money .
A little update on my sitch. I had a pretty good last 4 or 5 days. I didn't get to take my hike because my W had to work from 6-12 Saturday morning and I already had plans for Sunday. I did however get to have some alone time on Sunday to clear my head and I actual ly had a couple of almost normal night sleeps. I've made it more than 3 or 4 hours the last few nights without waking up, which is a first for me since this all started about 6 weeks ago. Unfortunately, I didn't get that sleep last night because my W was up at 4 am this morning to leave for her business trip. I went a head and got up and carried her bag to the car for her and told her goodbye. I know this might look like cake eating, but I looked at it as a small opportunity to show her change because in the past I don't know if would have gotten out of bed at 4 am to carry her bag to the car.
Last Friday night I had a drink with my wife and she had 5. I guess the drinks loosened her up because she decided to tell me about when she was raped by an ex boyfriend while in college. I knew she had been raped but it was never talked about because I didn't feel comfortable ever bringing it up and she never offered any real info. I won't go into details, but it was even more traumatic than I imagined. She also told me about a couple of attempted assaults and a sexual harassment situation that happened within a year of the rape. She never reported the rape because of the reaction she got from people when she reported the sexual harassment charge that happened a few months before. She said the only people that know about it are therapists,her mom and now me.
After talking about the rape she told me she doesn't feel anything with anyone when it comes to sex. She said she has been to 7 therapists dealing with her problems over the years but she wants a quick fix and can't get it from them. She quit her latest therapy a couple of weeks ago after going to 4 sessions. My W told me we have a great relationship now as friends but she doesn't know if it can be anymore than that because she just feels numb to me in a sexual way. She wanted to know what my therapist says about her and I told her a few details and my W seemed to agree with them.
The rest of weekend with my W was fine. We hung out Saturday night with the kids where she drank another bottle of wine. Sunday, she went and bought our S6 a new tablet because his broke. After she gave it to him she told him to remember the most important thing in life is family and to always be there for your family. She says things now that I don't know how to take. I DON'T get my hopes up because I know everything could change in an instant, but there are little signs that maybe she is not as crazy as she has been.
Sunday evening I went and got dinner and we ate together as a family for the 2nd time since this all started 6 weeks ago. After dinner she drank another bottle of wine and she had another last night. I'm starting to worry about all this alcohol consumption. I believe she has drank a bottle of wine every night since last Wednesday except for Friday night when she had 5 beers.
Also, yesterday she decided to buy us a new tv since ours has finally had it after 7 or 8 years. This was not a small investment. Last weekend she also mentioned about a dog for the kids. A dog is something we have talked about in past for them,but have never done it because we were always renting houses. Now that we have our own we starting talking about it more seriously. I told her I don't if right now is a good time with our sitch, but she said we could just divide the dog up like everything else if we don't work out.
As far as the the OM go, i think OM #1 isn't as serious anymore (although he will be at work conference the next few days). OM #2 is still going strong though. I know she texted him a lot Saturday night and last night. I am getting better at not letting it bother me. I didn't feel the anger last night that I usually feel when I know she is texting him. She actually told me she was texting him last night, she said it was work related. Once again I don't believe her but I kept my mouth shut.
Where do I go from here? She won't be back until late Thursday night from her trip so I am taking this as an opportunity to work on myself without having to look over my shoulder to see if she is around. I am going to do some more research and catch up on this board over the next few days.
Eagle11 - I think that this will be a good opportunity for you to think hard about what your W has told you and what you want out of a MR.
Your W is getting at least emotional support from OM2 that I presume she's not getting from you. Presuming you believe her stories of rape - no reason not to I suppose - and the related low / no desire that will be a factor you need to consider if you can accept going forward. I don't remember - did she say she wanted a D?
It almost sounds like she's somewhat comfortable with the current status quo - are you?
She certainly is a troubled individual who is struggling with her past. So far she believes that therapy has "failed" her but she has made 7 attempts. It's counter-intuitive but perhaps if instead of seeking her own help she were to volunteer for some sort of crisis line where she can help others she might also help herself? I'm very much not knowing if this is a good idea or a really really bad idea. On the one had helping others like we do here requires us to explore our own feelings in the context of others. On the other, it could create the potential for flash-backs and even worse problems.
Good luck and use the time you've been given.
AndrewP, Thanks for the response.
Your W is getting at least emotional support from OM2 that I presume she's not getting from you. Presuming you believe her stories of rape - no reason not to I suppose - and the related low / no desire that will be a factor you need to consider if you can accept going forward. I don't remember - did she say she wanted a D?
I believe the rape story. She told me she was raped when we first started dating. I didn't press her on any details because I didn't really know how to talk about it and she didn't bring it up to me until about a month ago but she didn't go into any details until the other night.
She told me she wanted a D back on 8/8/16 when I found out about everything. I asked her to wait and lets try to figure things out. She agreed at the time, but has brought up that she thinks she needs a divorce a couple of other times since then. She has told me she wanted a divorce but for us to continue living like we currently are (in the same house, with the same roles only not married). I told her no to that. She has also brought up wanting to start over with me but needing a divorce to do that. I told her I didn't understand that. Why would we spend a bunch of money to get a divorce only to try to get back together.
I can accept her sexual issues going forward. I have been dealing with them already for a few years. I didn't know the whole truth that she doesn't feel anything during sex (if this is the truth), but I wish she would have told me that rather than just acting like she didn't want to have sex or making me feel like crap for trying to have sex with her. I don't know if these issues can be fixed but I wish she would try and right now she is not willing. This might sound crazy to some of you, but as much as like sex it's not really a major factor in my marriage. It is a factor, but it wouldn't be the factor in me trying work this out or not.
It almost sounds like she's somewhat comfortable with the current status quo - are you?
I honestly would be ok where we are at right now in our situation if there was no OM involved. Would I rather be back together? Of course I would, but that is not possible right now. When we are together doing anything right now and the OM is not texting her, the attitude she has towards me is pretty normal. When the OM starts with texts she turns. She is still nice towards me, but she reminds of being a teenager trying to pass notes in class without the teacher looking. Last night, she knew I knew she was texting the guy but she couldn't stop. She made a comment about having to text him for something at work and I just said ok. Then she made a comment that her boss was texting her but I know it was still the OM. I didn't ask her who she was texting. I have been good lately. I just act like there is nothing wrong and I'm minding my own business. She is volunteering the info of who she is texting to me.
Last Friday night before she told me her rape story she asked if I still checked our cell phone account because she gets a notice every time I do (this is not true). I told her I've checked from time to time, but I didn't say anything else. She knows that I know how much she texted and I don't know if she wants me to say something or not but I keep my mouth shut.
She certainly is a troubled individual who is struggling with her past. So far she believes that therapy has "failed" her but she has made 7 attempts. It's counter-intuitive but perhaps if instead of seeking her own help she were to volunteer for some sort of crisis line where she can help others she might also help herself? I'm very much not knowing if this is a good idea or a really really bad idea. On the one had helping others like we do here requires us to explore our own feelings in the context of others. On the other, it could create the potential for flash-backs and even worse problems.
I don't know what we be good for her right now. It seems like every week I find something else troubling about her past. I have sympathy for her and I wish I could help her but that is not possible right now. My therapist has given me some reading to give to her if the time is right, but that time is not right now. She is such an impatient person (which she admits) that she feels she just can't do therapy. She thinks she should have her answers right away and when she doesn't she just stops going. She has admitted this to me (she did on Friday night),but there is nothing I can do about it. I have just tried to support her by listening to her and being her friend. Right now that is all I'm trying to be. If one of these EA turn into a PA then I might have a problem with this, but right now there is no evidence that this has happened.
Good luck and use the time you've been given.
Thanks, I guess that is what is good right now. I have time. I have time to get myself on track and maybe with that time my M can get back on track. I know my old marriage is over though. I'm not going to get that back and I don't want that back.
I just found out my W changed her name on facebook. She took off my last name and is just going by her maiden name. I don't have facebook so I don't know what else she has changed around, but this kills me. By doing this it also lets everyone that follows her know that we are going through problems. I just don't understand why she would do this. I was having a fairly good day until I found this out and now my world has been turned upside down. I just don't understand.
I'm think she did the same thing back in 2009 when we had our issues. Does this mean she is ready to end this for good? We have been in a good place lately considering all that is happening. I just don't get it and now I'm getting scared of what could be coming. I feel numb right now and I have to help my son with homework, but I can't concentrate on anything.
If it's an MLC, it's her way of asserting her independence and rediscovering herself. As hard as it is to deal with, you have to remember that this is HER journey. That's why the LBS has no power or control. The WAS wants to feel in control.
Let go of that control and keep focus on you and what makes you happy.
Eagle,
Stop trying to mind read! She may have changed her FB name so that you don't know what's going on w/her. Maybe she doesn't want others to see what she's doing. Just because she's dropped the married name, it doesn't always mean signal that the marriage is having problems. You need to advise your friends that you do not wish to know what she's doing. This bit of info doesn't help you to move forward.
Another thought, she may have done this so that it does get back to you. Why? Even though you were in a good place lately, it could be that she's not comfortable in getting closer at this time. She making every effort not to feel that warm and fuzzy feeling about you and the relationship and one way to drop ice on any "expectation" that you have about how things are right now is to do something drastic such as dropping the married name on FB. She knows that people will tell you about this and knows that it will put you in a tailspin. Let it go. It's just a minor name change and who knows, it could change again in the next week. BTW, I wouldn't say one word to her about the name change. You don't want to let her see you sweat. They do all sorts of crazy stuff and until you've got papers in your hand or have heard from her lawyer...I wouldn't let this blip on the radar rattle me.
Breathe! Keep the focus on you and your son. He needs you now to help him w/his homework. He's going to pick up on your anxiety and stress so you need to breathe and try not to think about what she's done.
Now....BREATHE!
If it's an MLC, it's her way of asserting her independence and rediscovering herself. As hard as it is to deal with, you have to remember that this is HER journey. That's why the LBS has no power or control. The WAS wants to feel in control.
Let go of that control and keep focus on you and what makes you happy.
I am just scared because I don't know what is coming now. I just find it odd that she would do this now. I could almost understand if she did this at the beginning when we weren't getting along but why now? My whole body is numb right now and I won't see her until Thursday night. She is supposed to call home tonight to talk to the kids. I have to act like nothing is wrong but how do I do that? The thing is she probably doesn't realize I know because I don't have Facebook but I heard from a mutual friend asking if everything was OK. Otherwise I wouldn't know anything. I wish I didn't know about this.
Job,
I'm trying to breathe. I really am. She texted me today and the texts were nice. I just don't understand.
I am trying to breathe. I'm not going to say anything to her about this. Maybe it's a good thing I'm not going to see her for a couple nights. I need to calm down.
Ok, I'm coming off the ledge now. Maybe she did change her name because she doesn't feel married anymore or maybe she did it for independence. She did the same thing back in 2008/2009 when we went through our troubles and I don't remember being as upset about it as I am today.
Unfortunately, learning about the name change made me snoop again (I know I shouldn't have done this). I discovered she and OM2 have texted each other over 200 times already today. I also snooped onto his facebook because his profile is public and discovered his Grandma died on Sunday and her showing was today with funeral Wednesday. Looking at the text times, I'm figuring he has been texting my W from the funeral home where his dead Grandma is. How sick is that? This is like some bad movie I am in.
Oh yeah, After her plane landed I saw she started texting OM1 right away. He is also in town for the conference. I need to get away from all of this. I wish I could just file for divorce and end this whole thing. That would be the easy thing to do, but I'm sticking this out. I told her I wouldn't abandon her and I am a man of my word. That talk I had with her when I told her I knew about OM1 might have been the dumbest thing I ever did. It did nothing for our situation and if anything it freed her up to do more. I told her i wasn't angry with her and I would stand by her. I should have kept my mouth shut.
So while she spends her days with these OM I watch our kids. Don't get me wrong, I love my kids and I want nothing in life other than to raise them. Its just she knows she can rely on me to take care of them. I'm sure she has no worries as long as I am with them and that free's her up to do whatever it is she wants to do.
Eagle11,
Your story made me sigh more times than I could count. I last checked in on Friday and the tales...you made so many statements that I could quote EXACTLY as the same thing I heard, and please believe me when I say EXACTLY. I am not even sure where to pick up.
The rape, the name change on facebook, the need to divorce so that "we could begin again", the premature son (mine was 8 weeks early, but splitting hairs, I ended up taking most of his care), the I have one drink she has 5, the ex wife story while you were young...here I will stop. When it was suggested so many weeks ago I follow your post as a comparison I would have never guessed. I liked what Mr. Bond told you above, as I had not mentioned that part of my wife's FB name change on this board, but it did happen. Anyway, I read for your story as much as for the advice you receive. And I am feeling sapped. I did a big post on my thread tonight, so while I still feel like trolling here, I am not sure how good I am for advice tonight..just wishing you the best buddy.
And to answer your remaining question from my last post to me - my weekend with my son was cathartic, enjoyable, sad, and deepening; he opened up to me in a way that I would not expect a 5 year old capable of. He told me "let's talk" so we did. He said he was sad, that he felt alone, and that he was confused - all due to his mother and I separating, then he asked me if it left "my heart cracked". I could not explain that it did, I could not explain what I did to fill the crack, I could not explain that some of those pieces would remain where they fell, I could not explain how hearts can heal. He is 5 and only by days, I simply told him it is ok for me to feel the way I feel and for him to feel the way he feels, and that it was ok for us to be talking about it. What does one do in the face of that?
I think my self confidence was low because I don't think my family gave me the support that I needed.
I hope you realize that this was NOT YOUR fault. Chances are you parents showed you love the only way they knew how to.
Unfortunately, I have never been the biggest self motivator and I need encouragement and I don't think I ever really received it from them.
You do realize that YOU can change this. Right? Requiring someone else to motivate and encourage you is more of a codependent trait. I am not saying that we all do not appreciate and feel good when someone motivates us – the “require” is the difference. Learning how to be self-motivated would do you good.
That's one of the reasons I have always made sure to tell my kids and my W that I love them.
What about YOURSELF? Loving your kids at the expense of YOU…is not healthy. It is IMO, another codependent trait.
I had therapist I was going to during my 1st divorce tell me this same thing,
Maybe the therapist and I are on to something. Maybe you need to dig a bit deeper here buddy.
I don't feel like wasting my time.
Ummm….from where I sit, you do not seem to be tied up with GALing…so why do you think this would be a waste of your time? Or is it more of the motivation that you mentioned above or are you just afraid of what you can find.
I wish I would have dug into what the problems were in the 1st marriage, but I never did.
“I wish”, “could have”, “should have”……. Notice that you see to give yourself excuses from really digging to deep. Notice the “but”…..
She was just the most beautiful women I had ever dated.
Is outward beauty more important to you than inward beauty? Be honest….don’t blow smoke up my arse. Be honest…is a women physical appearance more important than anything else?
If I keep quiet how can I expect her to understand me and what I am feeling.
I hope you can see more to this than just “her”. The issue is bigger than just “her”.
This is a dilemma I have had for some time. I have often thought about getting back to work, but then I care so much for the kids. I thought I would go back to work one our S6 started school, but then we had another S.
BUT….BUT….BUT…… Excuse….excuse…excuse....
Wash, rinse, repeat….
Notice the pattern?
Look man I get wanting to be home with your kids. I do. And I totally understand the circumstance specific to your younger son.
My point…(assuming you have not figured it out yet)… is….
I just think it would be hard for me to take him to daycare for 10 hours a day. I can't explain it, but if I stayed married I would continue to stay home with him until he started school.
YOU seem to always give yourself and excuse. Chit…I think deep down inside, you may not want to be with your W and the only reason you do is because it is easier and allows you to stay home with the kids.
Was that harsh? Yep I think it was…I also think you need to realize just how much you give yourself excuse from dealing with chit.
Maybe I should feel relieved about the possibility of have a few days a week for myself if we get a D, but I want to see my kids everyday.
Look at this statement….You would feel relieved (something I think you want to really feel) BUT once again you have given yourself from feeling relieved, which is your kids.
No More Mr. Nice Guy just purchased.
Good – let me know what you think.
Now look at my tag name…. that is a hint.
I know this might look like cake eating, but I looked at it as a small opportunity to show her change because in the past I don't know if would have gotten out of bed at 4 am to carry her bag to the car.
That statement up there screams….I want to be angry BUT my excuse is……..
My W told me we have a great relationship now as friends but she doesn't know if it can be anymore than that because she just feels numb to me in a sexual way.
It really a horrible thing that happened to your W. Can you be in a sexless M? I am asking YOU. I want YOUR response…and do not mention your W in the response. I want to know what EAGLE wants.
I DON'T get my hopes up because I know everything could change in an instant, but there are little signs that maybe she is not as crazy as she has been.
Notice the BUT again…in this case it is being used so that YOU can GET YOUR hopes up high.
As far as the the OM go, i think OM #1 isn't as serious anymore (although he will be at work conference the next few days). OM #2 is still going strong though. I know she texted him a lot Saturday night and last night.
Snooping are we? The more YOU look at HER the more YOU avoid looking at yourself.
I am just scared because I don't know what is coming now.
So what are you going to do with this FEAR? Face it finally?
I wish I could just file for divorce and end this whole thing. That would be the easy thing to do, but I'm sticking this out. I told her I wouldn't abandon her and I am a man of my word. That talk I had with her when I told her I knew about OM1 might have been the dumbest thing I ever did. It did nothing for our situation and if anything it freed her up to do more. I told her i wasn't angry with her and I would stand by her. I should have kept my mouth shut.
1) STFU
2) Why #1
3) Because honestly…. You are not able to be truthful and honest with her.
4) Why did I say # 3….
I told her i wasn't angry with her
This ^^^^ is why. You’re not angry – really?
So while she spends her days with these OM I watch our kids.
YOU CHOOSE TO – Own it.
So…how is the book….No more Mr Nice guy?
Ct,
Thanks for posting. I always look forward to reading your posts to me. It's a tough situation that we are in and it is at least a little comforting to know I have others with me. This is going to be a long battle no matter what happens and we need all the support we can get.
And to answer your remaining question from my last post to me - my weekend with my son was cathartic, enjoyable, sad, and deepening; he opened up to me in a way that I would not expect a 5 year old capable of. He told me "let's talk" so we did. He said he was sad, that he felt alone, and that he was confused - all due to his mother and I separating, then he asked me if it left "my heart cracked". I could not explain that it did, I could not explain what I did to fill the crack, I could not explain that some of those pieces would remain where they fell, I could not explain how hearts can heal. He is 5 and only by days, I simply told him it is ok for me to feel the way I feel and for him to feel the way he feels, and that it was ok for us to be talking about it. What does one do in the face of that?
My heart aches for you and your son. Our kids are stuck in the middle of all of this and it's not fair to them. That is the hardest part of this for me. I can take this pain, I will figure out a way to get through it, but I don't want my kids to have to endure this.
The thing I regret most about my sitch is when the bomb dropped on 8/8. That was the night I found my W texting the OM1 and I went crazy. I took her phone from her and we got into a loud argument. She chased after me and was punching me because I had her phone, but I wouldn't give it back until I read the texts. Both of my sons saw this. I don't think my S2 knew what was going on but my S6 did. He was crying and was scared. He knows what is going on. Since that night we have not had any discussions about our future in front of him but the damage was done. If he sees us talking now and it looks serious (even if its not) he will often go up to my W and put his hand over her mouth because he thinks we are going to fight. I wish I could have controlled my emotions that night, but I was caught off guard and its something I will always regret. Just typing this out has got me emotional thinking back to that night.
Hey Eagle, I know things are a bit rough. I sense so much fear coming from you. A fear that you don't have an identity without her.
I've noticed a theme in your posts. The word "easy" You thought staying at home with the kids would be "easy". It would be "easier" just to get a divorce.
Heck, we all want to try to take the easier route. But as someone who has never known "easy" in her life or has taken the "easier" route, I know true growth and the good things in life comes from not choosing the easier option.
Staying home with your kids: not easy it turns out, however, rewarding. My suggestion is trying to find a balance on things that make you happy. Not your W happy, but you, as an individual.
I feel your identity may have been lost somewhere along the line. Find it. It can be found without destroying the other relationships in your life. Don't worry.
Eagle,
Read Eric's post to you.
Then read it again.
She texted me today and the texts were nice
Of course they are. You're smack dab in the middle of the friend zone.
Stop
Trying
To
Figure
Her
Out
You can't. Focus on you. YOU.
And read NMMNG.
Eric,
I've read the first 25 page thread you posted on here about your sitch and I've gotten through about 1/2 of the 39 page thread you posted. When I was reading them it was scary how you talk about how you were feeling is so similar to what I am going through now. I can relate to a lot of what you went through. It has also interesting to see how uncertain you were at the time because all the interaction I have had with you is of a confident man who is sure of himself. It is almost like your posts were from a different guy than the one that has been helping me out. Hopefully I can get to the place you are in now.
I hope you realize that this was NOT YOUR fault. Chances are you parents showed you love the only way they knew how to.
Yeah, I am aware of this. They did things that showed me love and were not the loving type. No "I love you" or no hugs or anything like that. I am not saying I needed it all the time, but when I seen other families interact it was definitely different than mine.
You do realize that YOU can change this. Right? Requiring someone else to motivate and encourage you is more of a codependent trait. I am not saying that we all do not appreciate and feel good when someone motivates us – the “require” is the difference. Learning how to be self-motivated would do you good.
This is one of the biggest things I need to work on. I am very aware that I can change, it's just the believing in myself that is the hard part.
What about YOURSELF? Loving your kids at the expense of YOU…is not healthy. It is IMO, another codependent trait.
Another issue I need to work on. I am not sure I love myself or what I have become. I guess when I was younger I had dreams of what life would be like as I got older and this is not it. My lack of self confidence in myself I feel is a contributing factor and something I need to turn around.
Maybe the therapist and I are on to something. Maybe you need to dig a bit deeper here buddy.
I hear what both of you are saying, but right now I have no desire to find out who my father is. Maybe at some point, but right now I don't feel I need or want to. This might surprise some, but he is not someone I think about very often. I'm not afraid to find him, its just I have no desire to find him. Maybe I will feel different in the future and I will address that if the time comes.
Is outward beauty more important to you than inward beauty? Be honest….don’t blow smoke up my arse. Be honest…is a women physical appearance more important than anything else?
No outward beauty is not more important, but when I first met my W that is the thing I noticed. I will be honest, if I didn't find her attractive I probably would not have asked her for a 2nd date. This might make me shallow, but I have never dated a women that I didn't find attractive. Some were more attractive than the others and my W was by far the most attractive woman I have ever been with. I will say my confidence was probably pretty low at the time coming off a divorce. I had dated a couple of other women before meeting my W after the divorce and both were attractive. I remember the first called it off with me because she was afraid that she was a rebound. The 2nd one really liked me from what I could tell, but I wasn't really into her. I remember her coming over to my place the last time I saw her and she made moves that she wanted to sleep with me, but I wasn't interested. I then met my W a couple of weeks later.
YOU seem to always give yourself and excuse. Chit…I think deep down inside, you may not want to be with your W and the only reason you do is because it is easier and allows you to stay home with the kids.
I do make a lot of excuses, I know I do. I can assure you that I want to be with my W and I don't really feel going through all this is easier than getting a divorce. This is lot harder, dealing with all the crap that I have to deal with. The easiest thing would be to get a divorce, tell anyone who wants to know that my W is crazy and she was having multiple affairs. I could also skip out on working on myself instead of taking responsibility. Then find a job and the kids and I go live our lives.
This stuff is hard. Having to look inside myself and all my faults. Having to figure out how I got to this point in life and M. Trying to make a commitment to myself to get into a better place. Doing all of this while having to deal with a wife that has gone crazy is tough. If she hadn't gone crazy, we could sit down and talk about this like 2 adults, but that is not possible with her. Even though I am working on bettering myself for me, there is still that part that wants to get this M back and there is no certainty that will happen no matter what I do.
I guess what I am trying to say is that the easy thing to me would be to not admit my issues and not work on them. That would be the easy thing. I could get divorced and just go live my life the way I have been. That would be much more comfortable than doing what I have been trying to do.
No More Mr. Nice Guy just purchased.
Good – let me know what you think.
The book is supposed to be here Thursday. I will start reading it then.
Gmail
Now look at my tag name…. that is a hint.
Understood
It really a horrible thing that happened to your W. Can you be in a sexless M? I am asking YOU. I want YOUR response…and do not mention your W in the response. I want to know what EAGLE wants.
I honestly don't know that answer. If we would ever attempt to get back together I feel she would need to go to therapy to deal with her issues. Otherwise we would be right back here again. Do I want a sexless M? No. I am just hoping she could find the answers to what she needs to fix this, if it is fixable.
Notice the BUT again…in this case it is being used so that YOU can GET YOUR hopes up high.
My hopes are not high. Trust me on this one. If there are other men involved there is 0% chance for her and I.
Snooping are we? The more YOU look at HER the more YOU avoid looking at yourself.
Yes I snooped. I have gotten better, but when I saw her change the facebook name I began snooping. I know I need to stop and I have gotten better, but its so hard to be stop completely.
So what are you going to do with this FEAR? Face it finally?
I need to face the fear. I need to figure out how I to face it.
I don't want a divorce. Everyday I think about getting a divorce, but I think about a lot of things. I really do love my W, but she does make me angry even though I have told her I am not angry at her. I guess I have told her I wasn't angry at her because I don't understand her emotional state. As I have posted about her, she is crazy. She has a lot of issues from her past that she is dealing with. She is also impulsive and doesn't think things through. That is why I think I fear her. She is just so unpredictable and she has the control. I need to figure out a way to get some control. If I go to her angry right now I honestly don't know what would happen. It might be good or it might be the worst thing I could do.
I need to figure out a way to get some control. If I go to her angry right now I honestly don't know what would happen. It might be good or it might be the worst thing I could do.
Here's an idea: Stop basing your actions on how you THINK she might respond. You have no idea how she will respond. If it's the right thing to do, do it. If it's not, don't.
Your fear is paralyzing you.
Hey Eagle, I know things are a bit rough. I sense so much fear coming from you. A fear that you don't have an identity without her.
I've noticed a theme in your posts. The word "easy" You thought staying at home with the kids would be "easy". It would be "easier" just to get a divorce.
Heck, we all want to try to take the easier route. But as someone who has never known "easy" in her life or has taken the "easier" route, I know true growth and the good things in life comes from not choosing the easier option.
Staying home with your kids: not easy it turns out, however, rewarding. My suggestion is trying to find a balance on things that make you happy. Not your W happy, but you, as an individual.
I feel your identity may have been lost somewhere along the line. Find it. It can be found without destroying the other relationships in your life. Don't worry.
Ginger,
Thanks for the words. I agree with you that my identity has been lost. I truly don't know who I am or who I want to be. I have to find a way to figure it out. I am confused on what I should do and how much time it should take. I have always been a patient person, but I think I am growing impatient. This is certainly not easy, it's the hardest thing I have ever done in my life.
Drew,
You are right. The fear is paralyzing me. My W has total control of the sitch. I am going to read the book when it gets here tomorrow.
I am aware we are in the friendzone. I honestly don't want anything else right now either. I do think the friendzone has made it very comfortable for my W to live her life the way she wants though. I guess originally I viewed being friends as a way for us to reconnect with each other and be there for our kids. It is turning out as just a way for her to go about her life without fearing what I might do as her husband.
When I take a step back and try to analyze our sitch it is crazy to think she is carrying on these EA's and I know about it. She knows I know about it, but she doesn't even bother to hide it.
I have heard 2 different theories on how to respond. Some say don't take this from her while others say to leave her alone and don't start conflict with her. I have obviously taken the 2nd way.
I need to read NMMNG when it gets here. Maybe it can be a help in all of this.
Don't worry about how much time it should take. You don't need to know that right now. Yup, this isn't the hardest thing you will ever do in your life. There is no easy way out of this one, if you really want benefits and lifelong change.
The first step in discovering who you are is not acting on who your wife wants you to be. Or being scared of her reactions to your actions. I always believe we should be considerate of others, especially those we love, but how can you possibly find yourself and find out who you are if you base your actions on your wife's reactions?
I meant this IS (not isn't) the hardest thing you will ever do in your life.
Eric is guiding you nicely through it too:)
I have heard 2 different theories on how to respond. Some say don't take this from her while others say to leave her alone and don't start conflict with her. I have obviously taken the 2nd way.
Yep, Confrontation vs. Bo Peep. Only you can decide the best approach for your sitch. It's your life.
I need to read NMMNG when it gets here. Maybe it can be a help in all of this.
As a supplement to DB, not in place of.
I've read the first 25 page thread you posted on here about your sitch and I've gotten through about 1/2 of the 39 page thread you posted. When I was reading them it was scary how you talk about how you were feeling is so similar to what I am going through now. I can relate to a lot of what you went through. It has also interesting to see how uncertain you were at the time because all the interaction I have had with you is of a confident man who is sure of himself. It is almost like your posts were from a different guy than the one that has been helping me out. Hopefully I can get to the place you are in now.
I was a very different man. I was a man struggling with fear….
Until I DECIDED and CHOOSE to change it.
You can get to the same place brother – it just takes work.
This is one of the biggest things I need to work on. I am very aware that I can change, it's just the believing in myself that is the hard part.
How do you plan to start changing it?
“hey ericmsant2….you’re on fire. I know, I know, but…but…but…I’m going to…but…but…”
Vs.
“hey ericmsant2…you’re on fire. I know – I’m jumping in the pool”
Eagle, right now…you keep talking…it is time to start ACTING and I am not suggesting you throw your W out. I am suggesting it is time to start really digging deep. Let me show you.
Another issue I need to work on. I am not sure I love myself or what I have become.
Another issue….to work on. What are you going to do about it?
Loving yourself is an ACTION. It is not some unseen mysterious thing. It is a series of actions. If you like to hike, then loving yourself is planning and actually going on a hike. I suspect that you probably feel that IF you do this you will somehow be perceived as being selfish. Taking a little time for YOU is not selfish – it is healthy.
My lack of self confidence in myself I feel is a contributing factor and something I need to turn around.
And what is YOUR plan to turn it around? Once again..I see you talking – I do not see actions or a plan.
I guess when I was younger I had dreams of what life would be like as I got older and this is not it.
Okay….what did that life look like? Describe it to me (in detail).
I will be honest, if I didn't find her attractive I probably would not have asked her for a 2nd date. This might make me shallow, but I have never dated a women that I didn't find attractive. Some were more attractive than the others and my W was by far the most attractive woman I have ever been with.
I would like to think you are being honest all the time. So what beside beauty do you look for in a partner?
I do make a lot of excuses, I know I do.
And what are YOU going to do about changing it. Hopefully you do not respond with ….I know BUT…
I can assure you that I want to be with my W and I don't really feel going through all this is easier than getting a divorce.
What if I told you that the best chance you have to be with your W is to let her go completely? Like 100%...like no more snooping….like no more talking…. Would you do it?
I could also skip out on working on myself instead of taking responsibility. Then find a job and the kids and I go live our lives.
Funny….I do not see you talking responsibility for YOUR choices. I do see you blaming your W’s craziness. I do see you sometime playing the martyr. The kids…the kids…there home… You seem to redirect ownership of YOUR choices and instead of taking action…your fallback is “but the kids”.
This stuff is hard. Having to look inside myself and all my faults.
Yes it is…and guess what…when you really start digging it get even harder.
Having to figure out how I got to this point in life and M.
Own 100% of YOUR half. Do not own her half. That is one her. Notice…your taking the ownership for the entire M. Look dude, you, me, Ginger, Drew, your kids….No ONE caused your W to go crazy. She has not dealt with her issues – that is on HER. No one suggested that she start seeing two OM – that is on HER. Yes, you have chit to work on. Work on that and leave her to her own issues.
I have gotten better, but when I saw her change the facebook name I began snooping.
What usually happens after a BUT? Pssst…hint – EXCUSE.
I need to figure out how I to face it.
So what is the first ACTION or STEP?
Everyday I think about getting a divorce
DB101 – change YOUR thoughts.
I really do love my W, but she does make me angry even though I have told her I am not angry at her.
Is not being true to yourself…someone you want to be? You ever heard the saying…if you have nothing nice to say then say nothing.
Maybe Eagle…instead of trying to talk your way out you do something different (DB101) – maybe the something different is to say NOTHING. Not lie and say something else.
I guess I have told her I wasn't angry at her because I don't understand her emotional state.
If I were a betting man….I have a feeling you did not say you were angry because you were afraid that she would push for the divorce.
She is also impulsive and doesn't think things through. That is why I think I fear her.
You fear her because you do not trust YOURSELF. You fear her because you have not deal with YOUR fear. Own it and stop blaming her.
I truly don't know who I am or who I want to be. I have to find a way to figure it out. I am confused on what I should do and how much time it should take.
1) How can you make any decisions if you do not know who you are?
2) Guess what? Right now YOU my friend can decide who YOU want to be. YOU have full control over it.
3) Who you were really does not matter. That is looking backwards and will keep you stuck. Look forward Eagle….figure out WHO you really want to be.
4) As for time….it takes as long as it takes. The key is to move forward…step by step.
So….who does EAGLE want to be?
I have heard 2 different theories on how to respond. Some say don't take this from her while others say to leave her alone and don't start conflict with her. I have obviously taken the 2nd way.
Actually BOTH theories CAN lead to you to the same place. The different is HOW and IF you choose to do the work. Look man, you can beat your chest, throw your W out, play the “manly man” thing if you will OR you could CHOOSE to DETACH, GAL, work on yourself and enforce boundaries. Your first step is DETACHMENT and GAL. You are not detach because your afraid of what SHE may do. You do not GAL because YOU are afraid of what she may do. You do not have boundaries because YOU are afraid of what she may do.
When you stop being afraid……
When you really detach….
When you really KNOW who you WANT to be….
When you really start ACTING and WORKING to address YOUR issues…
Well then buddy……
Your W may come back.
The cool thing…..is that even if she doesn’t it will be on YOUR terms.
Truth and honor….
See Eagle, we told you that you were in good hands.
Many, many moons ago the VERY first question my counselor asked me was:
"What are you so afraid of?"To this day, I know what my answer was.
What's yours?
And you are NOT allowed to use the word BUT !!!
Hey Eagle,
Been keeping away for a while. Catching up on your sitch. Holy sh!t, same freaking thing! Same. Freaking. Thing. My W also dropped my last name from her Facebook profile two months ago. It's like a damn script they all follow! I didn't have the same reaction you did, because my W is having a full blown PA, so seeing her go without her last name on FB is a drop in the bucket to me.
I will concur with the others that you should keep your mouth shut. I know it's hard, really hard. You want to point things out to her, especially if the MLC has made her kind of dum dum at times. It's true, though - never let them see you sweat. Any challenge you offer looks like she's still got you on standby.
Brubeck,
Thanks for the words and advice.
Been keeping away for a while. Catching up on your sitch. Holy sh!t, same freaking thing! Same. Freaking. Thing. My W also dropped my last name from her Facebook profile two months ago. It's like a damn script they all follow! I didn't have the same reaction you did, because my W is having a full blown PA, so seeing her go without her last name on FB is a drop in the bucket to me.
It is amazing how so many of these stories are the same. It's actually amazing how much my current sitch is to the one I went thru with my W about 8 years ago. She is doing much of the same things and the same way. Thinking about that time actually calmed me down about the facebook thing because I remembered she did the same thing back then. The main difference between then and now though is back then the EA was a 5 hour flight away and now the EA is either a 3 hour drive or in another office in her building. Still her actions are nearly identical thru most of this process.
I will concur with the others that you should keep your mouth shut. I know it's hard, really hard. You want to point things out to her, especially if the MLC has made her kind of dum dum at times. It's true, though - never let them see you sweat. Any challenge you offer looks like she's still got you on standby.
I am going to keep my mouth shut. I have done a good job so far and I will stay strong in that regard. I have maintained a positive and upbeat attitude around her which might make me look weak at times. I have also never managed to beg or plead with her about any of this. I have done all my crying away from her, so I have done good with that. Now I need to really work on GALing and detaching for myself.
See Eagle, we told you that you were in good hands.
Many, many moons ago the VERY first question my counselor asked me was:
"What are you so afraid of?"To this day, I know what my answer was.
What's yours?
And you are NOT allowed to use the word BUT !!!
Honestly, I think I am afraid of the unknown if that makes sense. Maybe the possible change scares me. I have been doing the same thing the same way for a long time, and I think I am scared of having to change up the routine. I know I am going to have to step out of my comfort zone and that is scary for me. I guess I've lived my life not to fail and now my M is failing so the unknown is what I fear the most.
Eric
How do you plan to start changing it?
I honestly don't know the correct answer. I have to figure it out. I know I have been reading and learning from others on here. I have got books that were recommended to me. I am seeing a therapist. I have to figure out a plan and I have to do it soon. I have to become more decisive.
Another issue….to work on. What are you going to do about it?
I have to get back to doing the things I enjoy doing. I need to do things for myself. My W has always felt I was selfish (and I was at times), so I have been reluctant to do things I used to always do. Even last weekend. I wanted to go on the hike but I couldn't do it because she had to work at the last minute.
I used to play in a lot of golf tournaments and I was a very good amateur golfer. I've played in state tournaments and I have one my fair share of local tournaments. I haven't played a round of golf since this all started.
Okay….what did that life look like? Describe it to me (in detail).
My dreams were to get a good education (I did), find a great job that I loved doing (I didn't), find a woman to marry (I found 2 so far), have kids (I have 2), Own a nice house in a nice part of the country (I just bought a house in June). I wanted to be a great father (getting better) and a great husband (not so much).
I would like to think you are being honest all the time. So what beside beauty do you look for in a partner?
Beauty gets me interested in the other person but I want someone who is fun to be with and my W was certainly that at the beginning. She was such a free spirit and I wasn't. In many ways we were opposites. She says she is introverted but not like me. I loved her spontaneity and the fact the she seemed to be really enjoying life. She never complained and she was always there for me. Over the years that changed in her and I think it was more me changing her than her wanting to change. I think I became too negative and that really brought her down. I think my negativity started when we bought a house when we lived in AZ. She really wanted a house and didn't really care where it was or how much it cost. This was right before the housing bust and we overpaid for a house that was too far from our jobs. I tried to talk her out wanting the house but her mind was set. From then on I started worrying about money. It was also the first time in our M that I felt I didn't have a say in a big decision. We were going to buy that house regardless of what I had to say. I actually spoke up back then, but was shot down and then just gave in to her.
What if I told you that the best chance you have to be with your W is to let her go completely? Like 100%...like no more snooping….like no more talking…. Would you do it?
That's a hard one to answer. I can give up on the snooping. I need to give up on the snooping. My life would be so much better if I gave up on the snooping. If I could just forget my phone account password my life would be better. Letting her go completely is a hard one. I know I have to get to that point, but I'm not there yet.
Yes it is…and guess what…when you really start digging it get even harder.
I have been so hard on myself. I'm much harder on myself than I am my W through this. I just feel if I could have realized what I had become we wouldn't be in this sitch.
Own 100% of YOUR half. Do not own her half. That is one her. Notice…your taking the ownership for the entire M. Look dude, you, me, Ginger, Drew, your kids….No ONE caused your W to go crazy. She has not dealt with her issues – that is on HER. No one suggested that she start seeing two OM – that is on HER. Yes, you have chit to work on. Work on that and leave her to her own issues.
Thank you. I have gotten to the point where I don't blame myself for the OM. My therapist really helped me with this. I do still blame myself for the M though. I know she has had her faults, but I keep thinking of things I didn't do to make the M work.
Maybe Eagle…instead of trying to talk your way out you do something different (DB101) – maybe the something different is to say NOTHING. Not lie and say something else.
This all came about when I found out about the pain she has been in with her dad and stepdad. She broke down and said she felt abandoned by them. She felt that everybody leaves her. This was also before OM2 came into the picture. I told her I wasn't mad and I wouldn't abandon her. She was going to therapy at the time, I naively thought she would try to work her issues out. The OM was "just a texting friend". A couple of weeks later there is another OM and I felt like an idiot. Now I feel since I told her I wouldn't abandon her then I won't. I know that is stupid, but that's what i did.
If I were a betting man….I have a feeling you did not say you were angry because you were afraid that she would push for the divorce.
It might have been part of it, but I was caught up in the emotions. She had broken down and was crying like I have never seen her cry before. She was pouring her heart out to me like she never had. I honestly thought this might have been a turning point, but I of course was wrong.
You fear her because you do not trust YOURSELF. You fear her because you have not deal with YOUR fear. Own it and stop blaming her.
I agree
1) How can you make any decisions if you do not know who you are?
2) Guess what? Right now YOU my friend can decide who YOU want to be. YOU have full control over it.
3) Who you were really does not matter. That is looking backwards and will keep you stuck. Look forward Eagle….figure out WHO you really want to be.
4) As for time….it takes as long as it takes. The key is to move forward…step by step.
So….who does EAGLE want to be?
1.I have no idea
2. I need to figure this out
3. I know
4. I need to have patience.
It's not a good feeling to be almost 40 years old and have no idea who you want to be in life.
I need to detach and find myself. I need to GAL. I have to start doing these things. I will try and have a good weekend or couple days, but then I slip back up into this mess. I actually had a good 4 or 5 days where I thought I was detaching from the sitch and then yesterday I was back to the beginning starting over again.
Thanks for the taking the time to help. I really need it.
.......really trying to follow. Moving quick here Eagle11. So I read this in your reply to me, please note this one may be tough to read, and also please note, I am highlighting this as a commentary on some things asked of me on my thread by Eric and Mach1:
I don't think my S2 knew what was going on but my S6 did. He was crying and was scared. He knows what is going on. Since that night we have not had any discussions about our future in front of him but the damage was done. If he sees us talking now and it looks serious (even if its not) he will often go up to my W and put his hand over her mouth because he thinks we are going to fight.
Share this w/ s6 30+ years from now when someone asks him why he feels the need to be in control. This is where a need to control begins.
Also, are you familiar with tools of action? Don't answer, I'll tell you - tools of action connect human actors with non-human actors and back to human actors. Your wife's cell phone is a toll in her A (same as if gender roles reversed), your phone/computer/tablet is a tool of action for your spying on her A. You get into your car and follow her car, both cars are tools of action. You get it, now, can you limit time with those tools long enough to get beyond the craving? She can't, no she can't at all - to the MLC, the phone is more valuable than gold. To me, my wife's phone is her A. Yup...perspective dude. I bet you hate that f-ing thing when you see it, don't you?
It is amazing how so many of these stories are the same. It's actually amazing how much my current sitch is to the one I went thru with my W about 8 years ago.
This is me learning: How much about you is currently the same as who you were 8 years ago?
Yep, Confrontation vs. Bo Peep. Only you can decide the best approach for your sitch. It's your life.
This one frustrates does it not Eagle11? He is right tough, the better answers come in this form. There are some old posts here where (if you did) people come to DB for help and then get flooded with vet DB'rs arguing over going straight to LRT or hanging in for love, or standing, or getting tough - its a true nightmare to read, as with each contradicting argumentative post your confused mind is going "yes that's it, no that's it, wait that's it." Someone just saying its your choice is really the better option - Drew is at least acknowledging that there are two choices.
I would suggest they can intertwine and/or get one way for a bit and then go another. I would give you a direct example from my life, but I do not live w/ her and you do, so it may not be right for me to do so, so I won't.
CT1118,
Thanks for taking the time to post. I always find your posts make me think.
Share this w/ s6 30+ years from now when someone asks him why he feels the need to be in control. This is where a need to control begins.
I am afraid your right on this. I also believe despite what people say children aren't always so resilient and will be fine. We can do our best to help them, but when they see their family get torn apart at such a young age it will have an effect on them. That is one of my W's biggest issues. Her parents divorced when she was 6 and she is still dealing with that divorce 30 years later. My S6 is a lot like my wife and I fear that he might not make it thru this without a lot of hurt and depression. I will do what I can do to help him, but its really a lot for a small child to handle. I can't even handle it that well so how can I expect a 6 year old to be ok.
Also, are you familiar with tools of action? Don't answer, I'll tell you - tools of action connect human actors with non-human actors and back to human actors. Your wife's cell phone is a toll in her A (same as if gender roles reversed), your phone/computer/tablet is a tool of action for your spying on her A. You get into your car and follow her car, both cars are tools of action. You get it, now, can you limit time with those tools long enough to get beyond the craving? She can't, no she can't at all - to the MLC, the phone is more valuable than gold. To me, my wife's phone is her A. Yup...perspective dude. I bet you hate that f-ing thing when you see it, don't you?
Tools of action...yeah I have a problem with my spying. I can go a few days (I went 4 days last week) without spying but then something will trigger it and I will need to spy. That is what happened yesterday when I saw her name change on facebook. I was doing well, I was in a good place and then I found out about the name change and I'm back to the beginning starting over.
Speaking of her tool of action (her phone). She cannot be apart from it. Before she started her EA I would get frustrated with her when I would try to call her because she wouldn't answer. She would be downstairs and her phone would be upstairs. She never seemed to have it around or she would misplace it. I can't tell you the number of times I had to call her phone so she could hear it ringing and be able to find it. Now it might as well be glued to her hand. If I text her now, i get a response back in seconds.
This is me learning: How much about you is currently the same as who you were 8 years ago?
Unfortunately, I didn't learn anything from 8 years ago so the same faults/problems that led to that sitch are the same that led to this one. In the winter of 2008/2009 she started an EA with a guy in Ohio (we were living in AZ). I was angry and we fought, but after a while I didn't care. I didn't know anything about DBing at the time but I basically detached from her. I also was GALing. Her EA went on for around 2 months or so. It ended when she flew to Ohio to see him, they made out in some bar and she called me from her parents house to tell me. When she got back home I basically cut off all contact with her. I lived in the guest room and didn't hardly see her. I would work evenings sometimes and weekends so our paths didn't really cross that much. I had pretty much given up on getting back together with her but I wasn't going to file for divorce. At some point I came home from work and found divorce papers on my bed. I remember looking at them and tossing them in the drawer of my nightstand. She asked me later if I was going to sign them and I told her no. We lived like this for a few more weeks or so. One night I was bored and starting looking on my computer at dating websites. I wasn't really looking to date, but I was just curious what was out there since I figured I'd be getting a divorce at some point. A day or 2 later I come home and my W is angry and confronts me in the kitchen about the websites I had visited. Apparently she looked at the history and saw where I had went to. She was upset and crying. I kind of blew her off and went to my room. The next couple of weeks we started talking and before we knew it we were back together.
Unfortunately, we never worked on our problems and that is why I'm back in the same situation. I wish I could get that attitude I had back then though. I really got to a point where I didn't care. I know I wasn't scared back then like I am now. I was more angry than anything. I think the main difference in my attitude between then and now is my kids. I didn't have any kids back then to worry about. All we owned between us was a house (which she could have because I hated it) and a car (which she could have because I had my own). If our M wouldn't have worked out I would have packed up and got on with my life. With the current sitch it's my kids that I think mentally keep me from having that attitude. I just want this M to work for not only me but for our family.
This one frustrates does it not Eagle11? He is right tough, the better answers come in this form. There are some old posts here where (if you did) people come to DB for help and then get flooded with vet DB'rs arguing over going straight to LRT or hanging in for love, or standing, or getting tough - its a true nightmare to read, as with each contradicting argumentative post your confused mind is going "yes that's it, no that's it, wait that's it." Someone just saying its your choice is really the better option - Drew is at least acknowledging that there are two choices.
I would suggest they can intertwine and/or get one way for a bit and then go another. I would give you a direct example from my life, but I do not live w/ her and you do, so it may not be right for me to do so, so I won't.
This is the most frustrating thing for me. I need to find a way to figure this out. I don't think with my W and her mental state being tough with her is the best option. With her abandonment issues, her rape issues, daddy issues I think being tough with her will push her over the edge. I also know I can't be too easy on her either. She and I are acting as friends right now. We haven't argued since really the week this started. She hasn't shown me any anger for a while. If I could figure out some type of hybrid of the two it might work.
I still can't quote parts properly, but this stuck out to me:
you wish you could get that attitude back where you just don't care
Then you go onto mention you would have just packed up and left if there was kids if it didn't work out.
You don't want to get that attitude back where you don't care. Caring is good. Detachement is often mistaken for not caring anymore. It's healthy to care if this doesn't work out. Apathy is what we wish we could feel sometimes. You want to feel that right now so you don't feel pain. I'm going through a bit of that myself at present. I wish I could feel apathy, but it's not in my make-up and I know it' a good thing.
The difference we have here between not caring if this doesn't work out is that you just need to know you will be fine and you will rebuild your life. But caring is healthy.
Ginger,
I understand what you are saying. Maybe I shouldn't say I didn't care. I cared about my W and I didn't want a divorce. I think what I was trying to say is I wish I could get the attitude back that if the M would be over I would be OK. 8 years ago I wasn't as scared at the prospect of losing my M like I am now. Back then I desperately was trying to save my M, but I had a totally different attitude than now.
I think I had apathy back then. I have no idea how I got there. I didn't read any books, I didn't know about DB, I did go to a therapist but it was a waste of time. I basically had the attitude that I was not going to give up on the M, but if it didn't work out I would be fine. It might have been just the place in life I was at the time. We had no kids and had been married for just over 3 years. Maybe I didn't have the investment in the M then that I have now so the prospect of losing the M is harder for me now.
that wasn't apathy, that was self-confidence. You need the self-confidence back, not the apathy. But you know that, and I know you are working on it.
Eagle, Eagle, Eagle, you're not listening.
Go back and read what Eric posted to you. Then read it again.
Then read this:
This is the most frustrating thing for me. I need to find a way to figure this out. I don't think with my W and her mental state being tough with her is the best option. With her abandonment issues, her rape issues, daddy issues I think being tough with her will push her over the edge. I also know I can't be too easy on her either. She and I are acting as friends right now. We haven't argued since really the week this started. She hasn't shown me any anger for a while. If I could figure out some type of hybrid of the two it might work.
That entire paragraph is about her.
This is the most frustrating thing for me. I need to find a way to figure this me out. I don't think with my W and her mental state being tough with her is the best option. With her abandonment issues, her rape issues, daddy issues I think being tough with her will push her over the edge. I also know I can't be too easy on her either. She and I are acting as friends right now. We haven't argued since really the week this started. She hasn't shown me any anger for a while. If I could figure out some type of hybrid of the two it might work.
There, fixed it.
Look Eagle, DB is counterintuitive. You keep trying to figure out the right TACTIC to win your wife back. If you just say the right thing or do the right thing your wife will come back and you'll live happily ever after. Um, don't work that way. They smell right thru that. They know you're doing it just to win them back and as soon as you do, they're scared you'll go right back to the way you were.
Eric is trying to get you to work on YOU. We like to say around here - be the man only a fool would leave.
You had a perfect opportunity last Saturday. You had plans to do something for yourself, she came up with something, and you caved.
Look Eagle, DB is counterintuitive. You keep trying to figure out the right TACTIC to win your wife back. If you just say the right thing or do the right thing your wife will come back and you'll live happily ever after. Um, don't work that way. They smell right thru that. They know you're doing it just to win them back and as soon as you do, they're scared you'll go right back to the way you were.
This I understand. I am trying to work on me. I'm not trying to win her back. There is nothing I can do to win her back. The only changes she sees from me is I communicate better with her and I have been more attentive when she wants to talk. I haven't gone out and did anything crazy. I haven't gone out and totally changed my personality to try some miracle. I also don't discuss our sitch with her. I let her do whatever she is doing and I am going to do what I think is right. I don't want anyone to think I walk around depressed or I beg her to stay with me. Do I still snoop? Yes I do occasionally. I have a tendency to post on here when things are going bad, but when I am in a better place I usually don't post on here. I've gone thru this with her before and she is crazy. I don't really need to spend my time worrying about this crazy woman. Today she texted me about our S6 because he was upset she didn't call him last night. She told me she didn't make it back to the hotel until 2:30 because she was out with another woman she works with. I texted her back "ok". Do I believe her? Not sure and don't really care at this point.
You had a perfect opportunity last Saturday. You had plans to do something for yourself, she came up with something, and you caved.
Unfortunately I couldn't do anything about last Saturday. My W is the director of her facility (she is in charge of the facility -she is the boss). She has 2 managers that couldn't go into work that day and she had to go in to run the place. I couldn't tell her to stay home so I could go hike.
Time for me to start a new thread.
New Thread:
Confused on What do Do 3