Old Thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2699712#Post2699712My son began Kindergarten today. He was w/ W last night. We all met up this morning to take him to the school and get some pictures, see him off so to speak. As I watched him walk down the hallway with pile of other children to his classroom I felt so proud for him in that moment. Felt like all was at peace, felt like a piece of his solo journey had met some solidity. I will not see him again for three days; he and I will both be good in the meantime.
So, little man has begun school today. This will be a wonderful experience for him because it will be something new and he'll meet and make some new friends. It will definitely give him something else to think about and also talk about.
Fresh start ?
I wasn't aware that we needed one yet....
I'm not against you in any way. If I were against you, you wouldn't see any of my posts at all on your thread.
I ask about control, because I see it...
I ask about being misunderstood, because I see your defensiveness...
I ask about these things because they typically generate an emotional response if you feel like you are being attacked...
Your relationship with your spouse, is primarily emotional, or at least it should be...
Emotional responses tend to be more of a reaction, rather than a deliberate action.
And that is what most people tend to give to their spouse during the heat of battle....
Control ?
What I see, is that you very much have to feel in control of most things.
In my posts to you, not only did you try to answer my questions, you also told me in what context I was asking, and what the answer would be in each of those. To the extent that you were also telling me how to ask the question. So essentially, you were taking control of the question AND the response...and eventually, the outcome..
By your above definition...that is control..
In your response to Wonka about the 5LL book, you did a very similar task, in which you broke down the author, explained how you felt, came back again, and in my opinion, told her how she should feel about the author, before you closed by minimizing the impact that the book has on this community.
As far as the book ?
Don't stand on that hill too long. It is the context of the book, not the entire content to which we speak.
Knowing your love languages, how you give, how you receive, simply allows YOU to grow...
You admit to being controlling, and you admit to not always recognizing it when it happens...
For now though ? Its a moot point....
What sends the red flags to me, is the defensiveness in which much of that ^^^ occurs....
You seem to think that I am lashing out and attacking you, hence the fresh start offer.
Believe it or not, I am not really here to be a friend. Maybe that will, or maybe it will not happen down the road. I am here to help you see yourself more clearly than you have in the past. YOU asked for help, and I am only giving you feedback according to the information that you have given.
I'm in your corner...
So your choice, we can go further with this...or we agree to disagree about it...
Personally ? I would love to see you walk through this without the pretense of you feeling attacked...
So if you choose....
Maybe think about this for a while....
And then go back and read your responses to me.....see if maybe you see something different this time ....
So, maybe if we are starting fresh...
Why do you feel the need to be in control ???
How important is it to you, to be right ?
Is your opinion more important to you, than opening up and accepting that others have opinions too ?
I remember a tagline that poster had here a while ago, and I am certain that I will misquote it....
A beginner scorns..
A Novice will accept...
The Master says, but of course....
Something else that I see a bit of..
I see you trying to give the perfect answer to each question. I am not looking for that at all. The perfect answer doesn't let me see who you are at all....
And maybe that is a small part that comes across to me as control. And while you may not be trying to control the question, or answer, or direction the thread is taking....
It is the outcome that you seem to be trying to control...
The interpretation is the responsibility of the reader, not the writer....
Maybe it is both....
Maybe I can ask Mr Twain to come back and rewrite Huck Finn, so that it's true meaning can be digested by all, instead of the minority that seem to "get" his sarcasm....????
There's a guy MHL who I think was also named Missherlove at some point? Anyway he made some really great reference points in his story to accompany what all of you has said about time and what it does. There was another one (I clicked off it and now trying to find it again)by a guy named Fisherman or Fishing-something?
What do you want to know ???
The question marks were rhetorical in the statement, so there was no true question. Just to shorten "I just read these really honest stories and hope I am not insulting as I am not remembering their names right". And I am learning from those old threads, but the ones before the 100 comment cap are very challenging to navigate in chronological order.
Fresh start [hand extended].
I asked because I am friends with both outside of here. I talk to Fish once a week or so...
Eric ( the freakin Rican BTW) may be in more contact with MHL than I...
However I could find out any questions you may have for him...
Just a reminder.
he and I will both be good in the meantime.
Mate. So you [both] will be good when apart, you will be good when together. I read you are good and will always be good. That is bang on!
Great to hear the big man has made it into pre-school a lovely time. Forget the sh!t storm. It will soon be a storm in a tea cup!
Keep going chap! You are doing great! What a rock of a Dad!
Surfer.
My son began Kindergarten today
It was my daughters first day as well. Glad you were able to enjoy it.
Also, I suggest that you take a look at Mach1 post (the one J3B carried over). Some good stuff in there for you to think about.
I saw your response on your last post – pretty good Spanish dude.
Peace,
Eric
J3B - I did not forget, but do appreciate the stimuls. Very busy and...
Maybe think about this for a while....
Mach1 -
Fresh start was not that I feel you are against me, never thought that. Statement was referring to communication fresh start as I did not want our conversation to descend into experientialism or enigma. I do want the assistance, more on that below.
Knowing your love languages, how you give, how you receive, simply allows YOU to grow...
On chapter 3. Wonka got through.
You seem to think that I am lashing out and attacking you, hence the fresh start offer.
I interpreted the conversation as having assumptions about me, which triggered an antiquated and incorrect coping mechanism in my psyche, not that I was being attacked out of malevolence. It seemed to me like I was being misunderstood. If your assessment, the interpretation is on the reader as you believe, then responsibility for this interpretation lies with me. The time I took in my response made me think I was not responding from an older position of myself, but I was. Not easy to fix things from a position that is broken.
Believe it or not, I am not really here to be a friend. Maybe that will, or maybe it will not happen down the road. I am here to help you see yourself more clearly than you have in the past. YOU asked for help, and I am only giving you feedback according to the information that you have given.
I'm in your corner...
I not only believe all of this, I am hoping for and seeking it. The truth in what you said above and in what I just said may be in and of itself a reason why both of us have stuck through it. IMO such long response to one another neither suggest that either of us are not seeking some level of understanding from one another, nor do they suggest we lazily tapped out a reply from our cell phones (unless both of us have the text dexterity of 17 year old girls and haven't shared that with each other yet.) Believe it or not I am appreciative for this exchange, regardless of how difficult I may have found the crest of it or how difficult I may have come across, if I did come across as difficult that is.
So your choice, we can go further with this...or we agree to disagree about it...
further
Why do you feel the need to be in control ???
Two places - A horrible childhood where I was in control of nothing. It was degrading and cruel. In my teen years, when I finally had some control, I was out of control. I as left alone for weeks alone, parents emancipated me from school so I had legal rights over myself, it was ridiculous; I was never given tools from them to learn control. So that's one, which led to the other - Ego. I got to college and for the first time in my life realized I was very good at something, which was academics (I was always very good at being a musician, but my parents took a dump all over that every chance they had, so I did not realize that until post college when I really ran with it). Anyway, after having almost failed my way out of high school ( a guidance councilor actually told me in my senior year that I would amount to nothing and was head for prison) and doing so well in college, I developed a need to try and defend that feeling of success, it fed ego. I never began to understand any of this until I began work w/ an IC in the winter of '16, I knew a whole lot was wrong with me, I thought it was simply some type of anger complex, until the IC and I began to dig down.
How important is it to you, to be right ?
More than I realize or want it to be. Still working on it. Taking my successes when I don't one day at a time.
Is your opinion more important to you, than opening up and accepting that others have opinions too ?
Depends on how I feel about my role context. As a leader at work, I always put my people and the mission of my agency first, even when my personal opinion suggests I feel otherwise. The result is that I have a staff and senior leadership who do truly show me that they care about me. As a student, I defer to the leadership of my instructors and listen. Share my opinions when discussion makes it appropriate, take no offense to being shot down or guided. I n my personal life outside of those things - my personal history teaches me that I value my own opinion more. Learning how to listen, how take the times when I am willing to, capture that willingness and then contextualize it to other times when I don't want to, is challenging. That said, despite setbacks, I am committed towards creating a permanent change for the better.
Something else that I see a bit of..
I see you trying to give the perfect answer to each question. I am not looking for that at all. The perfect answer doesn't let me see who you are at all....
And maybe that is a small part that comes across to me as control. And while you may not be trying to control the question, or answer, or direction the thread is taking....
It is the outcome that you seem to be trying to control...
This is a completely fair statement and the recognition that this may not be my intention is equally appreciate. I am not sure it is easy for all to understand how greatly an inattentive ADD learning disability affects the human mind. It has taken me months of education to wrap my mind around the fact that I have had a learning disability my whole life and not known it. I do not view it as an excuse for past actions, but more of a way to contextualize my actions; except now I am learning to understand impulses brought on by the ADD and learning tools to reboot before just blurting out the contents of my head. Yet, this is in process; undoing 40 years of a challenged way to view the world and convert it to a different and healthier approach in the past 6 months...I will learn, teach, and train my way to better mind and I will do so in a permanent way; may take work daily, may take work minute by minute, but I will do it. Cannot say yet, but fighting the LD may one day be reflected upon as the greatest personal victory of my life.
Maybe it is both....
Maybe I can ask Mr Twain to come back and rewrite Huck Finn, so that it's true meaning can be digested by all, instead of the minority that seem to "get" his sarcasm....????
We could just ask him to cite the reasons for his thought using APA or Turabian formats and calculate the statistical R-value for his satirical correlations; that should cover it without a full rewrite.
touche' on the sarcasm Mach1.
Eric ( the freakin Rican BTW) may be in more contact with MHL than I...
However I could find out any questions you may have for him...
Eric mentioned this to me last night, day before maybe. I grew up next to a PR family and was welcomed into their home as if I were family. Suggest you ask Eric to make you some potato pancakes sometime.
I do really appreciate all the time and effort you have offered me Mach1. As well, the offer above on MHL and fisherman. I am still working through the fisherman thraed and only done a couple posts of MHL. I do not have questions on either of them right now, but will certainly check into your offer in the future if some arise. FWIW, I do hope they are both doing well in this life.
4am comes early, been typing for over an hour [hat tipped respectfully in your direction sir]
Have good night or day, whenever it is you read this.
PS - thanks to all for the K stuff. Eric, congrats on your daughter too.
On the Spanish - I began teaching son Spanish and German from 1 year. Since spouse and I never conversed in either, son has some mixed up stuff - for example he thinks a beach is called la playa and potatoes are kartoffel. No harm, funny though.
Night MLC forum.
My son began Kindergarten today. He was w/ W last night. We all met up this morning to take him to the school and get some pictures, see him off so to speak. As I watched him walk down the hallway with pile of other children to his classroom I felt so proud for him in that moment. Felt like all was at peace, felt like a piece of his solo journey had met some solidity. I will not see him again for three days; he and I will both be good in the meantime.
Dayum....when I went to kindergarten, it was only half of a day...
That's some serious schidt for a 5 year old....
Why do you feel the need to be in control ???
Two places - A horrible childhood where I was in control of nothing. It was degrading and cruel. In my teen years, when I finally had some control, I was out of control. I as left alone for weeks alone, parents emancipated me from school so I had legal rights over myself, it was ridiculous; I was never given tools from them to learn control. So that's one, which led to the other - Ego. I got to college and for the first time in my life realized I was very good at something, which was academics (I was always very good at being a musician, but my parents took a dump all over that every chance they had, so I did not realize that until post college when I really ran with it). Anyway, after having almost failed my way out of high school ( a guidance councilor actually told me in my senior year that I would amount to nothing and was head for prison) and doing so well in college, I developed a need to try and defend that feeling of success, it fed ego. I never began to understand any of this until I began work w/ an IC in the winter of '16, I knew a whole lot was wrong with me, I thought it was simply some type of anger complex, until the IC and I began to dig down.
How does that tie into who you were, are, and want to be ?
What goals are you setting for things to be different ?
Just wanting to change isn't conducive to the actual change.
And of course...
How did control issues affect your marriage ?
Better yet, how do you see control issues playing into your life??
How has control, defined WHO you are ?
And let me start this for you.....
From what you have said, I feel as though the whole marriage was about control.
I think that the act of marriage itself, was the control to stop the see-saw affect that the previous on again/off again had been the entire time that you have known each other.
Basically....
If we are married, then the bleeding (on/off) will stop...
Close ???
Is your opinion more important to you, than opening up and accepting that others have opinions too ?
Depends on how I feel about my role context. As a leader at work, I always put my people and the mission of my agency first, even when my personal opinion suggests I feel otherwise. The result is that I have a staff and senior leadership who do truly show me that they care about me. As a student, I defer to the leadership of my instructors and listen. Share my opinions when discussion makes it appropriate, take no offense to being shot down or guided. I n my personal life outside of those things - my personal history teaches me that I value my own opinion more. Learning how to listen, how take the times when I am willing to, capture that willingness and then contextualize it to other times when I don't want to, is challenging. That said, despite setbacks, I am committed towards creating a permanent change for the better.
See below....
Something else that I see a bit of..
I see you trying to give the perfect answer to each question. I am not looking for that at all. The perfect answer doesn't let me see who you are at all....
And maybe that is a small part that comes across to me as control. And while you may not be trying to control the question, or answer, or direction the thread is taking....
It is the outcome that you seem to be trying to control...
This is a completely fair statement and the recognition that this may not be my intention is equally appreciate. I am not sure it is easy for all to understand how greatly an inattentive ADD learning disability affects the human mind. It has taken me months of education to wrap my mind around the fact that I have had a learning disability my whole life and not known it. I do not view it as an excuse for past actions, but more of a way to contextualize my actions; except now I am learning to understand impulses brought on by the ADD and learning tools to reboot before just blurting out the contents of my head. Yet, this is in process; undoing 40 years of a challenged way to view the world and convert it to a different and healthier approach in the past 6 months...I will learn, teach, and train my way to better mind and I will do so in a permanent way; may take work daily, may take work minute by minute, but I will do it. Cannot say yet, but fighting the LD may one day be reflected upon as the greatest personal victory of my life.
Look up a poster....LostforWords
Read him...
Then tell me what you think...
???
Maybe it is both....
Maybe I can ask Mr Twain to come back and rewrite Huck Finn, so that it's true meaning can be digested by all, instead of the minority that seem to "get" his sarcasm....????
We could just ask him to cite the reasons for his thought using APA or Turabian formats and calculate the statistical R-value for his satirical correlations; that should cover it without a full rewrite.
touche' on the sarcasm Mach1.
My point, however round the mulberry bush that we go, is that interpretation relies on the reader due to the script being set in stone. Interpretation will ebb and flow, much like life, throughout any perusal of information that we may take.
Example...
The 5LL book. I ALWAYS recommend reading it twice. Usually when a person first gets here, and then again after a few months. The first read tends to be more of a " how I F'ed this up" manual, while the second read is way more insightful into the personal side....how you give, receive, etc...
Same book, two views...
Interpretation is also left to the reader, in order to formulate opinions, and stimulate the imaginary into reality. Not only could I, but I should be able to read the same things as you, yet we reach different arenas.
Another reason I asked about opinions being receptive to you....
In life, yes, you are a leader, a student, a Father...all of those things...
But is that how you define yourself ?
What defines you as being a great leader ?
Student ?
Father ?
How do you separate the roles ?
How do you lead at work as opposed to home ??
Eric ( the freakin Rican BTW) may be in more contact with MHL than I...
However I could find out any questions you may have for him...
Eric mentioned this to me last night, day before maybe. I grew up next to a PR family and was welcomed into their home as if I were family. Suggest you ask Eric to make you some potato pancakes sometime.
You had inquired the other day, when I used the term "freakin Rican"
Eric IS the freakin Rican...
No hidden meaning other than that....
CT
A horrible childhood where I was in control of nothing.
First I can relate. Second, I want you to think about this for a second. 1) What can you really control in life 2) What does control really provide you with and why is that important.?
I was never given tools from them to learn control.
I might assume that you were not given much tools at all. When you say control..do you mean control yourself, your emotions or circumstances surrounding you?
What is it that goes through your mind if you do not feel “right”?
my personal history teaches me that I value my own opinion more.
And why is that? Why the difference between work, school and your personal life? Do you only value intellect, which brings me to my next question. What is it that YOU value and why?
How’s your day going so far?
Eric/Mach1 -
I will start with Eric's last question - how's my day so far: First part very tiring due to work and some emergency chaos which was preceded by all the tropical storm damage last weekend and responses to that, so catching up with bad sleep and deep evenings studying. Second part, had my son tonight which is always cool.
And do note I will come back to all those questions, but my not make it verbatim - exhausted.
Mach1 - were, are, want to be? Childhood of being shown I was no good combined with the ego of a young man who found success on his own led to me becoming an overachieving professional superstar who grabbed every mentor, teacher, coach, certification, accreditation, volunteer opportunity, networking opportunity, make more more successful moment I could find. The downside part of this was that I was impatient for success, aggressive in character, spoke out of turn, commanding as a leader, knowitall, and defended my professional success and time against against anything which I felt threatened or challenged it. Success in the professional world led to a general belief that I was correct about most things in my personal life. I would lead before I would follow and be damned if I didn't. Now the above is the first 30 years; it all did calm down at some point, but it did not go away. That's who I was. That led to drug addiction, stress, lethargy, and not liking myself very much, if at all. So while it calmed down, it came back with the birth of my son, flashback movies of childhood in my brain, fear I would become my abusers and arguably I got worse than I ever was - I was a drug addict, a poor husband, an inattentive father, and a narcissist - and a socially functional version of all that. So typical for the script: awarding winning professional, loved by all at work and play - failing at home. I could not fix anything from a position where I was broken, but it was from there I had to start.
Who I am - I had to fail to become who I am. I had to crash so I could burn. I had to fall so far behind so that I would become my own leader. There is a beauty in crisis: it sets you free to awaken and aim towards a horizon. I am not where I want to be, but I am on that path. I am a great father now. I am sober (about to be 7 months). I am doing so much for me and in a way that impacts others. I am back in shape, I am taking charge of my health. I am a seeker of methods tools and opportunities to improve myself. I am more honest with myself and others, I am more open to other humans and make an effort to be friendly and engage. I am a great friend to many. I am working on being a better son by paying attention to my parents. I am a better employee, a better leader, a better everything because I am feeling better about me. I am also, most importantly, not finished and have miles to go.
And how it ties to where I want to go? There's positive stuff in who I was. I gave a great deal to my community. I am a sought after expert in what I do for a living. I have a reputation for mentoring and teaching young professionals - I want to keep that, I enjoy being known for that, I want to build that. I know what I don't want and who I don't want to be. Who I am now is helping me identify the positives and negatives of who I was, and this leads to mission and vision. So where do I want to go (day by day). I want to go to a place for myself where I am living my life with honesty. Not hiding things from me or from other people. Being genuine. Being inspirational, not for ego, but because inspiration helps others. I want to know how to love myself and let others in. I want to be permanent. I am getting there, I will get there. And when I do, I will look forward yet again.
Alright - all I got for tonight. Was not even sure I had this much in me and there's a little black dog in my apartment who most likely wants my feet so he has somewhere to rest his head.
were, are, want to be? Childhood of being shown I was no good combined with the ego of a young man who found success on his own led to me becoming an overachieving professional superstar who grabbed every mentor, teacher, coach, certification, accreditation, volunteer opportunity, networking opportunity, make more more successful moment I could find. The downside part of this was that I was impatient for success, aggressive in character, spoke out of turn, commanding as a leader, knowitall, and defended my professional success and time against against anything which I felt threatened or challenged it. Success in the professional world led to a general belief that I was correct about most things in my personal life. I would lead before I would follow and be damned if I didn't. Now the above is the first 30 years; it all did calm down at some point, but it did not go away. That's who I was. That led to drug addiction, stress, lethargy, and not liking myself very much, if at all. So while it calmed down, it came back with the birth of my son, flashback movies of childhood in my brain, fear I would become my abusers and arguably I got worse than I ever was - I was a drug addict, a poor husband, an inattentive father, and a narcissist - and a socially functional version of all that. So typical for the script: awarding winning professional, loved by all at work and play - failing at home. I could not fix anything from a position where I was broken, but it was from there I had to start.
So what does all of that ^^^ , look like moving forward ??
How do you deal with that fear ??
How do you look at that guy in the mirror. and say enough is enough ??
How will you know if he shows up again ???
CT, just so you know Mach used to be MUCH more verbose.
ITs sort of a toss up as to which is better.
So I do have a question for you as well:
Got good plans this coming weekend?
CT, just so you know Mach used to be MUCH more verbose.
ITs sort of a toss up as to which is better.
So I do have a question for you as well:
Got good plans this coming weekend?
HAHAHAHHAHA!So, all honesty, I am being crushed for time. Three minute window in schedule and decided to check on thread real quick. Work/school items, will full visit tomorrow.
I do have good plans - leave work, walk dog, seeing a concert tonight. Tomorrow, buying B-day party items for son turning 5 next week. Some studying, some skateboarding, some guitar playing. Have my boy Saturday night. Sunday, repeat studying, skateboarding, guitar playing. Till then!
Sorry for the hijack CT…
Dayum....when I went to kindergarten, it was only half of a day...
Mach, did they have cars back then or was it still horse and carriages? LOL
CT,
Have you looked up LostforWords yet?
Weekend sounds like fun. The concert…a popular band or local one?
Enjoy your time with your son. Does he skateboard too?
Eric, Haven't looked up yet. Work has been over 12 hour days followed by study. Up late now from the gig and some after food, but still will wake up at 8/ Just checked in to see about a few people. I've many questions to catch up on.
I would say the band is neither - an obscure band from new england that I have loved for the past 27 years. They can fill a large club to a small club in the shallow to deep south, and an amphitheater in NYC or Boston. Seen them in all situations. Love them. Tonight was a present.
I am working on skating with my son. He is not horrible on his bike, but the board freaks him out. Its ok, I am far from tricks or anything, I just find peace in listening to music and getting some effort out while moving down streets. Every now and then I eat st pretty hard and it reminds me that it feels good to be 41 and get a skinned knee doing something fun - "he's all boy" as my son's doctor says. Son will truck on beside me on that bike though.
Mach1 - was not finished with these, so will answer some more before addressing your follow up on the first few.
How did control issues affect your marriage ?
Better yet, how do you see control issues playing into your life??
How has control, defined WHO you are ?
Affected M? - I certainly tried to control the money, which I saw as a defense for the family. Her money skills are abhorrent and she spent w/out regard for actual existing money. I really wanted her to help me balance the money, but she never wanted to - would just scream about how much she earned and what she deserved (not always, not in the past, but when things went due south about 6 months before S). I never tried a different approach, in reflection, I could have tried different communication approaches. I grew up financially humbled and was downright poor and living in ghettos for a large chunk of my 20's - I was hypersensitive to never going back. Irony, became middle class house poor in the wealthy suburbs. In addition, grad school - which I think I most likely covered the ego over that in my initial replies. I turned her off in the name of my goal(s). She said I didn't listen - she was right. Sh said I tried to fix everything - she was right, when I did listen I heard problem and tried to fix them as quick as possible so the world could get back to quiet.
Into life? if the above is not enough, control played into life in the worst possible way when we bought a huge house in the suburbs. I hate suburbs - was raised in the suburban landscape of parental abandonment. But its what you do right - American Dream. Her and I were selling our home in the city and wanted a large condo or apartment on the coast. Real Estate agent convinced us not to rent, even though we both wanted rent. Best investment, long term security -all that. Her and I are still embarrassed we got talked into it. We bought some plastic castle we did not want. Her pick was my no 2, My pick was her no 2. Guess which one we bought? Dumb, not like it would have made a difference though - entire concept was something neither wanted.
Defined who I am? Feel like I covered it in first round, if not, let me know otherwise.
And let me start this for you.....
From what you have said, I feel as though the whole marriage was about control.
I think that the act of marriage itself, was the control to stop the see-saw affect that the previous on again/off again had been the entire time that you have known each other.
Basically....
If we are married, then the bleeding (on/off) will stop...
Close ???
Maybe a component, don't think so and not on my end, not on hers to my knowledge. I don't recall either of us feeling that we should marry to never be apart again, but read my answer.
I truly did not want to marry her when we did, but at a later time. I was quite happy just being in love with her as two people. I did not feel either of us had enough time back with one another and enjoying one another. She wanted a child and maybe more - I certainly wanted one, perhaps more. She believed we should be married to have kids, I agreed somewhat, but thought all of of it could have sat a couple more years. I was not even sure M was for me anymore back then. At some point, I came to believe that if any couple could make M work it was us. So, not that I was all against it, but once I believed it I was excited. So, I don't regret the M, I would rather not loose the M, but if there was a control victory there I do believe it was her opinion over mine. She has apologized profusely for this when we first S'ed. Told me as she was walking out that if we had not M'ed way may still be together. I remained unconvinced that it mattered given that we did M and here we are. I have not heard anything about it since Feb '16. If anything now, she has referred to me as her H a number of times in dealing with school administrators, which surprises me, but I do not comment or think anything about it other than to note that it was an occurrence of something she said.
Look up a poster....LostforWords
Read him...
Then tell me what you think...
???
Will not forget. Please bare with me on time - I have a whole lot of moving parts right now - any life with two graduate studies course injected into it becomes congested. At least my attitude is better this go round. Less stressed and less pressure on myself/from myself to be the best.
My point, however round the mulberry bush that we go, is that interpretation relies on the reader due to the script being set in stone. Interpretation will ebb and flow, much like life, throughout any perusal of information that we may take.
Example...
The 5LL book. I ALWAYS recommend reading it twice. Usually when a person first gets here, and then again after a few months. The first read tends to be more of a " how I F'ed this up" manual, while the second read is way more insightful into the personal side....how you give, receive, etc...
Same book, two views...
Interpretation is also left to the reader, in order to formulate opinions, and stimulate the imaginary into reality. Not only could I, but I should be able to read the same things as you, yet we reach different arenas.
OK, I just realized where we are differing here, at least to me and hopefully this will help for you too. So, yes, In what you said in the excerpt about I agree in full. Where I think the difference of opinion for me comes in: So to me we are in a version of a chat room. I do not view active exchanges as reading per se. I view this as a conversation with the difference being that we are not "in person" so in the context of this room, while an effort is (maybe, certainly for me) made to ensure that language is chosen as best as it can be, it is still an active conversation. Thereby, things maybe written similarly to spoken words - we can blurt, think we explained it, think we missed it, i.e. it may be careful, but not as careful as an author would be with a text. Here, just like in conversation, we have the ability to say "what did you mean by that", for clarity, and thus for clarity the opportunity to explain - because this place is a conversation minus the body language to help us. Now, if I (or anyone) look back upon threads from 7/8/9 years ago, that may seem like reading as the opportunity to seek clarity from the writer may have been lost while the opportunity to seek clarification from other interpreters remains. Yes/no...?
Another reason I asked about opinions being receptive to you....
In life, yes, you are a leader, a student, a Father...all of those things...
But is that how you define yourself ?
Certainly the above are components of my definition, but I am more than the sum of my parts.
What defines you as being a great leader ?
I am not sure I get to define that. I know I am good at it because I know the relationships I have with the people I lead. I have awards on my wall. I have money in my budget. I have knowledge of what technique I apply with whom and when. I do not lead by the seat of my pants or by ignoring my training. Natural leaders do not exist, your teeth are cut somewhere. So, what I know - my people show me and tell me what they think of me from the bottom up and the top down. These things indicate a feeling beyond respect for my position.
I listen closely to what I am being assigned to accomplish as it pertains to the topic being studied. I do what and how it is asked and I do it on time. And, participation.
Again, do I define that I am great here? I hope I'm great. People tell me I am. I do my best to be consistent with the values he requires and that I want to educate. I speak positively of his mother always, even when he asks difficult things. I share my passions with him. I do not try to be his friend or the cool dad, but I am not the distant or angry dad I was a year ago. I show through actions what I ask him to be. And he tells me I am great, which is really the only compliment worth a dmn in this world; he may not always think that - I hope so though.
How do you separate the roles ?
I wish I could leave work at work, but I am paid to remain on call - I do keep boundaries for it though and I do not violate them. That said, the only work problems I bring home are the physical fatigue, the stress no. School, I set time aside in specific blocks. Not sure I do separate being a dad, but I do have "self time" on my weekend day W/ him. We both get to do things as individual down time and are not to do more than know the other is near by. We may both end up napping or I may read and he may play, etc.
How do you lead at work as opposed to home ??
No home to lead these days. Just a self to improve and a son to raise. Bills on time, lights are on, walk dog regularly, make bed daily, keep a clean place, and never ever under any circumstances allow 1980's glam rock to be played in my apartment.
HANG ON THOUGH!!!! Please, let me catch up!
Eric -
CT
First I can relate. Second, I want you to think about this for a second. 1) What can you really control in life 2) What does control really provide you with and why is that important.?
I am sorry that you are able to, on the flip, it did shape who we are. 1. I can control how I feel about myself, which in turn influences how I respond to the environment around me. As of my understanding for where I am now that is. 2. Control provides us with a feeling of security, perhaps some small prediction for the future, a likelihood of outcomes, some influence over the occurrences in our lives. This is important for many reasons, but in terms of speaking on how I was living and am challenging down - it was not thought of in terms of being important, but I would have to say to get what was wanted.
I was never given tools from them to learn control.
I might assume that you were not given much tools at all. When you say control..do you mean control yourself, your emotions or circumstances surrounding you?
What is it that goes through your mind if you do not feel “right”?
Ha, yes your assumption would be accurate. Yes, for the time period of my life I was referring to in that quote I was speaking to all three items you identify.
Now as for what goes through my mind if I don't feel right? I would say I really only feel this when its a case where I feel decidedly correct. And so, I would have to say evidence for why I feel so correct goes through my mind.
I would also say, that since this conversation with you and Mach1 began a few weeks ago, I have been paying more attention to this matter in my head. I passed two tests this weekend. Don't feel like explaining, just know that I passed.
my personal history teaches me that I value my own opinion more.
And why is that? Why the difference between work, school and your personal life? Do you only value intellect, which brings me to my next question. What is it that YOU value and why?
Well, yes that is what my history teaches me about ho I was, but I am working on being more open, attentive, and understanding these days. The difference in me at home vs. other areas of life I noticed many years ago. And my answer would be that I had absolutely no idea how to balance my life. I did not prioritize right. As well, I came home and it just felt like more work - that was my attitude anyway.
Of course not.
I am answering on myself here, not good ole' USA and GMO free food, etc.
integrity of character - because this represents so many other traits for me in my morals, trustworthiness, reliability as a human.
wisdom - intellect present or not, but how and when and where the application of knowledge comes in.
Growth - this comes from challenge, self-imposed or otherwise. growth may be towards goals identified or the needs unknown.
Compassion - backbone of love and understanding.
Friendship - I have many friends, many close ones that is. I am gifted by life in this way.
Giving back - volunteer work, outreach, putting more back in.
connection - I enjoy making connections with others.
How’s your day going so far?
And while I answered this the other, it is now a new day. And, quite stellar - did everything I set out to this weekend and a little more. And once I hit send, me and the little black dog will go for a walk and I shall return to read a few more pages in a text book.
OK, last round, then open again...
[quote=CT1118] were, are, want to be? Childhood of being shown I was no good combined with the ego of a young man who found success on his own led to me becoming an overachieving professional superstar who grabbed every mentor, teacher, coach, certification, accreditation, volunteer opportunity, networking opportunity, make more more successful moment I could find. The downside part of this was that I was impatient for success, aggressive in character, spoke out of turn, commanding as a leader, knowitall, and defended my professional success and time against against anything which I felt threatened or challenged it. Success in the professional world led to a general belief that I was correct about most things in my personal life. I would lead before I would follow and be damned if I didn't. Now the above is the first 30 years; it all did calm down at some point, but it did not go away. That's who I was. That led to drug addiction, stress, lethargy, and not liking myself very much, if at all. So while it calmed down, it came back with the birth of my son, flashback movies of childhood in my brain, fear I would become my abusers and arguably I got worse than I ever was - I was a drug addict, a poor husband, an inattentive father, and a narcissist - and a socially functional version of all that. So typical for the script: awarding winning professional, loved by all at work and play - failing at home. I could not fix anything from a position where I was broken, but it was from there I had to start.
So what does all of that ^^^ , look like moving forward ??
Hold onto the positive things from this. Loosen the things where it does not matter as much,e.g. do I have to get an 'A'? I do not. Continue with IC. Stay strong where strong matters, learning how to identify where strong does not matter.
How do you deal with that fear ??
Well, now, I felt I had no choice but to face it. I have been facing many fears. A head butt, head on. I cannot say enough about how many fears I have faced, tackled, and made a dedication towards conquering. Progress is seen, for example, my son got in trouble at school today. Wife said he would not tell me anything, I asked to speak with him on the phone anyway. - open book; he immediately began telling me stuff about his day. Succeed at home - working on it.
How do you look at that guy in the mirror. and say enough is enough ??
Well, that was the watershed moment wasn't it? That day has come and gone. My physical body was not even close to my mind's eye. I was a disgusting mess. Now I look and I see me, an older version which is just fine, but me. But last February, that carcass...that was not me, that guy woke me up.
How will you know if he shows up again ???
Check points were established. Once I realized I had failed, I went to everyone I trusted. Being quite short in the story here, but - Drove to my parents -"I'm a drug addict victim of abuse, you abused me". Went to my doctor "I'm a drug addict, you were my dealer". Visited friends "If I looked off, absent, or otherwise, I was high. Remember that look, help me..." Checked in with IC "I am a drug addict, I have other issues, help me..." Went to N.A. "what do you have for me, how can I help..." Came to DB - bled my pain...you will tell me.
Mach1/Eric mostly, but J3B, a bit cadet. Hey, if you are not done with me, that is cool. You are not, I would think. I am learning. I hope others read and learn. I cannot say enough how much introspection all of this has given me in the past few weeks. Just...keep pushing if you need to push. Mucho bien un gracias.
CT
I really wanted her to help me balance the money, but she never wanted to - would just scream about how much she earned and what she deserved (not always, not in the past, but when things went due south about 6 months before S).
What do YOU see in the above statement?
2. Control provides us with a feeling of security, perhaps some small prediction for the future, a likelihood of outcomes, some influence over the occurrences in our lives.
Does it really or is it really a false sense of security? Have you ever consider that life is really more like an ocean…it moves, it has waves, sometimes it is calm. You really cannot control it. You just sort of move with the waves.
Have you ever given some thought in just “living in the moment”?
Eric -
What do I see? In hindsight I view it as I did not change my communication approach to speak with her. I used the same approach every time and it failed every time. She never had to be in control of money and she became overwhelmed when speaking about it. I was not understanding of that at the time.
Security? Well, yes it sure is false, but that is the feeling people get from it when they feel it.
Have I considered life like an ocean? More like a river...
Big fan of water analogy.
Living in the moment is something I have been striving for these past few months. Getting better at it. I have gotten there at points in life, but lost it again. I am concentrating on learning tools now to make it stick - fundamental changes in my thinking and approach.
PS, I began reading LFW. Found a good list under something Cadet put up. Found the start of LFW's thread, but then lost it. Is there a particular thread title you can recall, or was that list Cadet put out there what you were hoping I would find?
ANYTHING LFW posts is pretty amazing.
You be surprised the good advice you can find just by accident, like an "AH-Ha moment" just for you.
I like that Three Beans.
My son is having some issues when he is with my spouse. Bothering me today. I have to let them get through it together. He is just in a violent response stage and it's hard to hear about. No rescue, no control, no blame; not seeking that as a solution. Already doing what can be done on my end....staying the foundation, taking him to a behavior play group w/ an IC, being his father. He bit some kid at her gym today - banned for three weeks, second time in a month. She told me she cries everyday because she feels lost and out of control. I listen, I validate, I answer questions when directly asked by her.
He asked me on the phone tonight if I was mad at him for doing it. I told him I wasn't. [censored].
CT
Just stopped by to say Hi and see how you are doing. Have you read the LFW post yet?
Eric
Eric - I read a few LFW posts, was asking if there was a specific one? Did find the one on the stages of LBS if that was the one you were referring to.
I am doing awesome BTW. I think we were shut down on the hang out if you were headed down to OBX. Yeah though - my son turns 5 tomorrow. I blew his little mind up telling laying in bed with story time and saying he would fall asleep a 4 year old and wake up a 5 year old..."no way Daddy, how could that be?" Him aside though, did a lot, felt a lot, helped a lot, closing a banner day.
You?
PS, where the h@ll did Mach1 go? Swoop in help the target and roll on never to be seen again in this nowhere town- like the A-Team?
CT,
PS, where the hell did Mach1 go? Swoop in help the target and roll on never to be seen again in this nowhere town- like the A-Team?
He's up at Balmoral with The Queen having a cuppa tea w/scones.
PS, where the h@ll did Mach1 go? Swoop in help the target and roll on never to be seen again in this nowhere town- like the A-Team?
I didn't realize that you were waiting for me.
I was back at the...
"Hey guys wait for me !! Throw me the ball, throw me the ball"
He's up at Balmoral with The Queen having a cuppa tea w/scones.
The Queen can't handle the amount of "Southern" I have in me : )
Although she tries, she doesn't quite like 'shine' in her Tea....
And I 'spose there is hope however. She did trade her Scone for a Moon Pie....
: O
He asked me on the phone tonight if I was mad at him for doing it. I told him I wasn't. [censored].
So strange...the censored word shows in the quote box...
Anyway, other than telling your S you weren't mad...did you try to explain how you did feel about his behavior? That it isn't right to bite other people or anything like that?
CT,
He asked me on the phone tonight if I was mad at him for doing it. I told him I wasn't. [censored].
Were you actually?
The reason I ask,
Is I think I would have been, despite the circumstances.
If you were, don't lie to him. You can be mad and still kind and compassionate.
sort of like how you treat an MLC wife. ; )
Anyway, other than telling your S you weren't mad...did you try to explain how you did feel about his behavior? That it isn't right to bite other people or anything like that?
I did. Told him I did not like that behavior, but I understand what it feels like to be upset, and I was still excited to see him the next night.
3Beans - no I was not mad, I just didn't like it. I have been mad over this with him in the past for sure, but at the time of the phone call, I was just...I think I was just feeling like I wanted to speak with him in person.
Two days later from that incident, I think that it made me realize - I may not always be there for him when he wants me, and it won't be by choice, but he is getting older and you know - I'm realizing that.
Hi CT
Ahhh…5…great age. Enjoy it, they grow up so darn fast.
Two days later from that incident, I think that it made me realize - I may not always be there for him when he wants me, and it won't be by choice, but he is getting older and you know - I'm realizing that.
Believe it or not……it is not the amount of time you will spend with him as much as the TYPE of time you spend with him. At 5, you are his hero. He will watch and mimic you. Keep working on YOU and HE will benefit.
Any plans for this weekend?
Peace,
Eric
Just came back from son's Bday party. Had it at a local kids gym type place. Spouse did a great job setting everything up. My apartment is now filled with kids toys.
So, Eric, had a great weekend thus far, georgeous weather, fun times with son. Spent morning reading for school and on my guitar. Wrote two papers last night. Imagine I will be building toys for some of the rest of the day. 😀
PS!mhope that vacation is treating you right.
Was having a great day and now having a "f___ her" night. My son brought up her OM to me. Told me he was confused about liking the OM. I know what explains it, I know I am detached, I know I did a great job of responding to my son. And here comes the "however/but response" however, as detached as I am, I am not emotionless. Roller coasters is not a good description for the MLC spouse, i tend to like roller coasters. Riding a tsunami in a refrigerator is better. I am fine, I just feel like saying da*n it tonight. Apparently I cannot say it [censored] (but I can say s**ks).
CT,
Feel those feelings, get them out there and then let them go. Yes, when you are punched in the gut w/something as innocent as your son talking to you about the OM and whether to like him or not, it's difficult. I'm sure you handled it well and your son felt safe talking to you about it. You did the right thing coming here to express how you felt.
I hope that you feel better today.
CT
As much as it [censored]....DB101 - Change how you look at things.
Instead of FOCUSING on OM....
FOCUS on the fact that YOUR son Trust YOU enough to being up the conversation.
You are in a very tough spot. Be very careful with what and how you communicate with your son about OM. KEEP..let me repeat KEEP YOUR hurt out of the oonversation. I am not suggesting that you tell your son that OM is a wonderful human being. I am saying that do not tell YOUR son that OM is piece of chit.
Breath brother....breath.
job and eric,
Thank you for the advice. It took about 24 hours for the frustration washed out. I had to sit down and write a paper for class and that seemed to make it finally fade.
Fortunately I did not let my son see or hear that I was angry. About it. I did ask him about 5 questions in an effort to try and determine how he perceives me, his mom and this dude. I felt bad afterwards though. Think it should have been less, but unless he approaches me again, I will let that fruit rot on the vine.
I did get the understanding from him I was looking for and I brought it up with my IC this morning. I realized that even having just turned 5, he knows something is wrong with that guy being there and not me. I even faced a really difficult thing to hear - son told me that he liked the OM and felt bad about it. That was a tough one, but I just told him again that he could tell me anything he wanted to and it was ok that he felt that way.
OK, lets not discuss that last one anymore please. Writing it out felt gross. DEEP BREATH...
I do think the idea that kids are resilient and will "be ok" since they are young is a BS concept. I have never believed it and not read it here, but many people out in the world have said it to me. I just let it roll off, they only mean to comfort.
Why does the function of meaning have to be so dmn elusive? The journey of the MLC makes no sense, even when it makes sense. I have read so much on it; here, there, everywhere. I read all the posts assigned and suggested. I have either read, started, or obtained all the books recommended. I have disassembled and understood all of the MLC pieces like limnology, stages, denial, childhood trauma, standing, touch-n-go, etc. And still, the MLC is more than the sum of its parts; as a whole it is a paradox, as a person it is enigma.
Towards my MLC spouse, I have felt anger, aggression, pity, compassion, promise, apathy, responsiveness, chaos, love, friendship, confusion, disappointment, lust, intrigue, inspiration, hope, nothingness, despair, loss, sadness, and joy. Towards myself, I have felt shame, confidence, pride, anger, apathy, pity, loss, promise, fulfillment, nothingness, inspiration, rebirth, happiness, supportive, confusion, inspiration, sadness, positiveness, and joy. Perhaps not all encompassing, but close.
I feel detached from the chaos kid and her actions, but I do not feel detached from the idea that I still want the marriage with the prisoner inside, who may emerge a free woman. I feel attached to the emerging me and my actions, but I do not feel detached from the idea that I do not want the marriage with the chaos kid who may never let her prisoner go. In this I can find no function of meaning in the way I have known meaning.
I have always been a personality who sought meaning from fact, from logical explanation, from science. In that search, once I was formally trained in science, I realized that science only builds models, e.g. theory; laws are indisputable in science and therefore very rare when compared to theory. There is no scientific law for an MLC, unless they decide to jump off a cliff on the planet earth. Physical law states they fall to their death as fast as their mass accelerated by the force of gravity will take them. Yet, this is where the proverbial action defies, where they do the parabolic; they seem to float very slowly on the way down and then they hit or they don't, either way; they either stay down or seem to float back up, back down, back up, etc., until resting on the ground ad infinitum or rising back up, as slowly as they fell. That is to say, there are no laws in psychoanalysis, other than the physically applicable laws of other science.
So where does this leave a man who has spent his life viewing life through the lens of science. Two choices: I either keep looking for the model which best explains that which I am observing (and feel that I have already found) and then hope that my observations result as does the model, or I choose faith. Faith cannot be proven law by science. Faith requires complete trust and belief in something, anything, regardless of contradicting fact, converse to what is scientifically able to be proven, averse to past experience to the opposite.
In the face of this choice, I wonder an analogy - if I love a 41 year old woman who has 45 years, with early parole for good behavior. Actually that is not a wonder, that is what it is to me. I know what happened to get her imprisoned. I understand the systems which led her to be sentenced there. I agree to my contribution which led to her sentence. I know that the prisoner is a good person and could get out early on good behavior. What I don't know, is what will happen to the prisoner while she is in there? Who she will remain in order to survive, remain the chaos kid? Why she will do what she does in order to survive, return or deflect? How she will choose to cope in order to survive, by change or by remain? Further, will I understand her changes to get through it? Will I continue to visit her? Will I attempt to keep understanding her experience? Will I be there for her when she gets out? Who do I become while she is away? That is most important - who do I become while she is away?
There is no law of science for this MLC. The best we have is theory. There are numerous models of approach, but the best I have found include the same components: take care of yourself for the better, and if you have it in you, this will be a long ride. That is again, of the best I have found. But sometimes science and faith may coexist. I can know all day that scientific or even pseudo-scientific theory tells me to take care of me. However, what does this require? I believe this requires me to examine what I have abandoned long ago, which is faith. Not in the godly sense per se, which may result at some point, but rather to me intrinsically. There is no one who can experience my life the way I do quite like me.
Why does the function of meaning have to be so dmn elusive? The journey of me makes no sense, even when it makes sense. I have read so much on it; here, there, everywhere. I read all the posts assigned and suggested. I have either read, started, or obtained all the books recommended. I have disassembled and understood all of my pieces like control, love, distancer/pursuer, denial, childhood trauma, standing, stages of grief, etc. And still, I am more than the sum of my parts; as a whole my journey is a paradox, as a person I am enigma. But science, pseudo or otherwise, tells me that I have a statistical value of pulling myself through this by bettering myself greater than if I don't. Science, pseudo or otherwise, tells me that I have a statistical value neutral or less no matter what I do. Faith, feels more important now than ever; faith tells me that with either result, I will be ok, that things will be better, that I may be in this for a long time regardless of the prisoner's sentence. Yes, faith, in me, in those who help me, in those who love me, in the belief that good things will happen because I emit good things...this is what I have decided to look towards tonight and at least for the next mile or so.
It has been a very up and down past few days, both by myself, of my interactions with my MLC wife, and with my son. I had to reset perspective for myself. That is what the above was/is about.
CT1118 - I appreciate your struggle. You are even more of an analytical type than I am by orders of magnitude.
It might not be helpful but I'll offer these words which I hope will at least make you smile.
The human body is put together by amateurs in the dark. It's a surprise that the d@mned thing works at all.
If we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be called research
I think your struggle and your search for answers is noble and while frustrating is probably doing you no end of good. Every scientist must admit though that they all stand on the shoulders of giants. The first researchers into the "electrical fluid" had no idea of what this novelty toy was capable of but just stood in wonder at it. Later people like Tesla could make it dance and do amazing tricks but all based on the work done before. In fact (I believe) even though we've been using it since Roman times modern chemists still haven't figured out exactly how cement works but it's around us everywhere and it patently does work.
I think it's for reasons like this that I'm perhaps going to spend a bit of time staring at the rose on my desk and just wonder at it's beauty knowing that I will never know how or why it is.
Thanks for posting this. I'm sure it felt good to write and it made me feel good to read.
Andrew P -
Thanks man, of course this was helpful. Yes what I wrote felt good to write. When I began, the little white DB box we are so familiar with was staring at me - I was going to write something very different, and then the above came out.
A book I feel in love with once, until I didn't, then I realized such irony from the story. It would do all well here to read it, you know the name: The Little Prince. Your comment, conjured it so I dug it out of a stack, been a long time, but your comment took my mind straight there.
I think it's for reasons like this that I'm perhaps going to spend a bit of time staring at the rose on my desk and just wonder at it's beauty knowing that I will never know how or why it is.
Why you should read it? A quote...
"What does 'tamed' mean?" asked the Little Prince.
"It means 'to create ties with'" the fox answered. "...if you tame me, we'll need each other. You'll be the only boy in the world for me, I'll be the only fox in the world for you. One sees clearly only with the heart. Anything that's important is invisible to the eye." the fox said.
"I'm beginning to understand," the Little Prince said. "There's this rose flower...I think she has tamed me."
"It's all the time you've spent on your rose that make it so important, " the fox said. "Once you've tamed something, you're responsible for it forever. You are responsible for your rose."
Hehehe - smiling yet AP? interesting how the mind works.
"It's all the time you've spent on your rose that make it so important, " the fox said. "Once you've tamed something, you're responsible for it forever. You are responsible for your rose."
Hehehe - smiling yet AP? interesting how the mind works.
CT1118 - Thank you so much. I'm glad I'm in my home office today with a big box of tissues.
I'm somewhat familiar with The Little Prince but will definitely get a copy. Probably a nice one like my copy of The Wind in the Willows which W gave me a number of years ago. This will need to be read over and over again.
Roses have always been significant to me but now are many times more so.
And yes, I'm smiling while the tears are flowing.
That was a lot to digest, CT. I'm gonna have to come back later and re-read that again. Even though you are coming at your sitch from a different angle that I might, I can tell you are trying to look at the big picture and ask the necessary questions of everything. I'm not there yet myself. I admire you as you are progressing forward.
I feel detached from the chaos kid and her actions, but I do not feel detached from the idea that I still want the marriage with the prisoner inside, who may emerge a free woman. I feel attached to the emerging me and my actions, but I do not feel detached from the idea that I do not want the marriage with the chaos kid who may never let her prisoner go.
D@mn, this resonates. You hear something that encapsulates a feeling you already have. You didn't know it was there because it was buried beneath the shallows, and other times it is a feeling for which you haven't given any name for yet.
It feels good to feel related, that is the best side of this place.
So, the funny thing about this life - my mother always said "things happen for a reason". Pretty sure that is a rather common phrase. Anyway, not always sure I subscribe to that, but what a strange set up, and perhaps with reason. Bare with me...
Towards the end of college, I was into this beautiful Filipino girl who was majoring in philosophy. We had this dance of minds and body, but a great connection. We only went physical twice, but spent so much time together with our heads. This girl told me to see if I could go and find a book worth talking about, I found the Little Prince. I only read the first 1/3 of it and kept it at her place. She would never take the plunge into truly dating me though.
So I went on and met this art major who was a painter and big on hiking/camping which I was too. On a third date, I was at her place for dinner and she asked me if I was creative, I was, but not with fine arts. She handed me a spool of copper wire and some metal snips. She suggested I make something real fast, don't think, just do. I made a little boy holding his arms out - it scukd, but when she ask what it was, I told her the little prince. A few years later I tossed that thing when we divorced.
So, run forward. Two weeks ago, I am in a bookstore looking for something for s5's bday, I see the little prince and get hit with the above memories. I buy it. I gave it to him early, we read it over the course of three nights. I am realizing over those nights how amazing the book is and how remarkably it communicates love, journey, and self. Then, Andrew P makes this seemingly random mention in response to my earlier prose - and it sparks me to share.
So coincidence or meant to be, I cannot say. I will tell you, the rose does encourage the Little Price to go on his journey - and I hope that is enough of a cliff hanger to get you to read it.
Though...on my sitch, which I have not directly spoken about on this thread in a bit, which I was going to moan about before I wrote my MLC wax poetic a couple days ago.
A few days ago, last Sunday, day after spouse's Bday, which was one day after s5's bday, I am on my balcony of my apartment (third floor, chose it on purpose, gets extra exercise in just to come and go)enjoying a lovely day and reading a text book. My son comes outside and says "daddy, I wanna talk". Delighted, I feel. He begins and without recreating 18 minutes or so of convo - he tells me he is sad inside, feels confused, afraid for me, concerned about his mother, likes her OM, her OM is "bigger" than me (why he was afraid, he is wider than me - I'm playing nice), tells me OM is there some nights, he wishes "you and mommy would play the song of love again" (I know where he got this phrase, she gave me small statues when he was three of a man and woman playing instruments and we told him they played the song of love, but how he remembered that? wow!).
It was heavy, but I encouraged emotion, told him it was ok for him to share, I showed no disrespect, I did good. She calls me Tuesday, I had not heard from her since Saturday after s5 Bday. She was on her way to get him, said call from school, he was acting up, etc. She told me how she responded - she did good, I told her that, everything she said I would have said myself or agreed with. Then she asks about how he was, why he feels need to misbehave, etc. So I tell her about the above convo.
I was calm, told I was getting ready to share some hard info, but she was his mom, she asked about why, etc. I gave no speculation, nor judgement, did not get into boundaries which she clearly violated, just said - this is what he said, you asked, here you go. Spew and defense (no need to explain the defense, it was same s__t you all know) from her. I was not disappointed, asked her once to check her disrespectful tone, gave no options, gave no advice. No advice that is, save one bit - when she said "I don't understand, I do everything with him, everything. I take him out, I cater to him, I make the entire day about him! And he does not speak to me like that, he does not ask me to talk! Why would he say that to you?" To this I said, "I am not sure why, but I know I offered to him that if he ever wanted to talk, I would listen. And then when he did, I did." She thanked me at that point, for listening to our son, then she thanked me for sharing it all with her, she acknowledged that it must have been tough for me to hear these things.
So, I put this post in for a grounding. I am still a human, still a dude involved with some real chaotic kid that I share experience with in this life. Still go through this and fall upon training. Brubeck, Eagle, AndrewP - this chaos chick does exist in the real world, she is someone I speak to, she is someone I can touch and see, and she does annoy the holy s out of me. But, she can surprise me, make me laugh sometimes, and seems real on occasion, and I'm not calling her a liar - just saying I don't believe much that she says, I'm not just some philosoph here to practice for a book.
Brubeck correctly noted something about my personality - that I take a big picture approach, he was truly spot on. I do believe my writing and the way I choose to express myself when writing, especially regarding myself here - in anecdotes, metaphor, and creative language, could be sometimes distracting from the real fact that I am still an actual guy, who is just making the best of this opportunity in my life which has been gift wrapped in a s__t sandwich that I had to eat. Me and Midlife Wife and Midlife...
I will tell you, the rose does encourage the Little Price to go on his journey - and I hope that is enough of a cliff hanger to get you to read it.
I ordered my copy yesterday. It should arrive early next week. I chose to spend extra to get a hardcover copy with the original illustrations but the words would be the same regardless of edition. I expect it's something I'll want to read with my grandchildren when I finally get them.
It's interesting how it turned into a "franchise" with lots of spin-off books and derived works but I think I'll only pay attention to the one book at least for now.
Thanks CT1118 for being one of the lighthouses in this place for me.
He begins and without recreating 18 minutes or so of convo - he tells me he is sad inside, feels confused, afraid for me, concerned about his mother, likes her OM, her OM is "bigger" than me (why he was afraid, he is wider than me - I'm playing nice), tells me OM is there some nights, he wishes "you and mommy would play the song of love again"
What your wife is doing to your son is totally disgusting.
I feel so sorry for you and your son and I wish that doing
something like that was punishable by law.
Hugs my friend.
Cld,
Advocating violence against women, is not the kind of advice we give on this board.
I think we know why cld's W had a restraining order against him.
CT1118
Just talk to your son and continue to make yourself a safe place for him. You're doing well. There is no logical way to take MLC. That's why it's important to concentrate on you.
I wasn't sure if I was reading what I thought I was reading. I couldn't believe my eyes.
CT when my D was about 5 she was having some issues. I asked her if there was something she wanted to talk to me about. Well, she erupted with so many feelings. I check in with her often to see if there is something she needs to have a heart to heart about. I'm the one she feels safe with expressing those feelings.
Your son feels safe expressing those feelings to you. You are his rock and safe place. Just keep being there to listen. Sometimes all my D wants is someone to talk to and get things off her chest. Sometimes the things are heartbreKing to hear. But you are his comfort and by listening and validTing, you are doing him a world of good.
Thank you all for the responses and support.
Cld - I know marriage problems hurt people, but here is my viewpoint: I have studied as many variables in my sitch as a can, and the study is ongoing. There have been or are enough WAW's and/or MLC women here, along with other sources, for me to know that what my wife is doing is not understood by her, possibly not remembered, and certainly not personal. The self- justification, defensive positions, and models of argument all fit the script; all of this matches either a drug addict's or a teenager's flow of rationalization.
That said, for right or wrong, better or worse, the woman I write about here is still my wife, still someone I choose to feel love for, and above all things, she remains the mother of my one and only son. I ask that you respect that. Her behavior may be wrong, but it is not evil. I am here to get support which helps ME to improve myself. Thanks.
In other news, I bought my son his first basketball today - spent the morning on the court. Great weather here today and was a whole lot of fun.
CT,
How did your son do on the court? I think this was a wonderful way to spend the morning playing basketball.
CT,
I am glad you recognize that Clod has many issues of his own. His personal issues does not justify his actions or advice to others in this forum. His reference to evil is just one of many signs of his own issues.
In regards to your wife I will tell you a short story about mine that may help shed some light. About 4 months after our divorce was finalized I got a text from her asking me if I was happy. This text initiated our first real discussion since the divorce. She said to me during this discussion one very important point. She said that she had learned that she could not trust what her own mind was telling her. This was at the beginning of a very long slow process of her coming out of the MLC. It tells me and should tell others what is going on in their minds is not normal and that when they start to wake up they begin to figure this out.
CT1118
Just talk to your son and continue to make yourself a safe place for him. You're doing well. There is no logical way to take MLC. That's why it's important to concentrate on you.
No, there is no logic in it. Thank you sir, I feel like I am doing well. I am digging pretty deep these days - both in GAL and in identifying my own core self.
Your son feels safe expressing those feelings to you. You are his rock and safe place. Just keep being there to listen. Sometimes all my D wants is someone to talk to and get things off her chest. Sometimes the things are heartbreKing to hear. But you are his comfort and by listening and validTing, you are doing him a world of good.
Thank you Ginger1 for sharing this with me. I am trying to be his rock indeed, if not his lighthouse.
How did your son do on the court? I think this was a wonderful way to spend the morning playing basketball.
job, we had a great deal of fun. He was much too small to even hope of hitting the backboard (I will be looking for a park which has kid's goals). We worked on his rebounds and passing - which he enjoyed greatly. I did not attempt to coach him, just told him some basic ideas of passing and rebounding and we did that for a while.
In regards to your wife I will tell you a short story about mine that may help shed some light. About 4 months after our divorce was finalized I got a text from her asking me if I was happy. This text initiated our first real discussion since the divorce. She said to me during this discussion one very important point. She said that she had learned that she could not trust what her own mind was telling her. This was at the beginning of a very long slow process of her coming out of the MLC. It tells me and should tell others what is going on in their minds is not normal and that when they start to wake up they begin to figure this out.
Lifes Twists - thank you so much for speaking on my thread. This really does help. It is hard to comprehend from the outside, but I do understand how this could happen. I hope she is healthier now, your ex-wife that is. Personal stories are very helpful, so much appreciated.
CT Mate,
Just catching up on your sitch. So sorry you have had a crappy few days and I have not been there.
This strikes a chord
"you and mommy would play the song of love again"
Also, the fact he is opening up to you. He trusts you mate. 100% Hero Dad! That little man is all over you! You will bpnever betray that trust so you will never, ever loose it. Also, in time he will get it (he does already), he knows that you do play the song. That's why he feels safe to tell you. He doesn't say this to mummy because she would not listen and would brush his comments aside without validating them, or his feelings. I get similar things. Take the 'plus points' you are 100% trusted by him. He knows what you are doing and what she is not doing. He will not forget you as a total hero!
I know of some very, very smart people who have been through what your S is going through as a child their futures turned out great but all they wanted at the time was a Dad like you to reassure them. Grade A! Take the rest of the week off!
Yes e pain is horrible. Least of all home trying to work out loyalty. Don't sweat that, OM can't keep up with D. Never happens when D is amazing. Chill, be the man.
Also your posts on understanding her? I totally get it. Stop trying. Please. We all do. But just give less of a fcuk please. We sometimes need to just accept, we will never understand the way they think. If you had a dog that keep trying to p!ss on the cat would you want to understand how his mind worked, or would you just look at the dog and think hilarious you are an idiot. I know this vastly trivialises our situations but I just don't think we will EVER understand. They don't even understand their behaviour - I am 99.9% sure. So how the fcuk can we?
Mate. You have just 2 boxes to tick Superdad and Super CT. you are way over 80% - 90% there. The first box is smashed. The CT box only needs a bit of work.
You are doing great!
Surfer.
There is a whole lot of value in what you have to say surfer. Thanks for the honesty, I am taking it in.
I have been very busy the past few weeks - not as much time for the catharsis I find here.
CT1118 I've been wondering where you've been at. There's far more to the world than this place - I'm glad you are "in the world". PS - The Little Prince arrived today. Early dinner out then I'm going to sit with him for a while and lose myself in his world.
CT
I do think the idea that kids are resilient and will "be ok" since they are young is a BS concept. I have never believed it and not read it here, but many people out in the world have said it to me.
I agree. That said, you can help minimize the impact. Create an enviornment that your son feels comfortable talking about how he feels is KEY.
There is no scientific law for an MLC
Ummm….tell me about it. Trying to understand it…really will just drive you crazy (i.e….applying the “model approach as you mentioned”)
who do I become while she is away?
As much as this may seem so stressful…it really is not. You really can be who ever you want to be TODAY…and tomorrow..you can decide who you want to be that day. My point….is that when you learn to take life day by day, it get easier.
My mother always said "things happen for a reason".
Your mother was a smart women!
She calls me Tuesday, I had not heard from her since Saturday after s5 Bday. She was on her way to get him, said call from school, he was acting up, etc. She told me how she responded - she did good, I told her that, everything she said I would have said myself or agreed with. Then she asks about how he was, why he feels need to misbehave, etc. So I tell her about the above convo.
I was calm, told I was getting ready to share some hard info, but she was his mom, she asked about why, etc. I gave no speculation, nor judgement, did not get into boundaries which she clearly violated, just said - this is what he said, you asked, here you go.
CT, you know I like ya right? I mean really – right? Ummm…not in that way…I just like ya. I think you are really a nice guy. Now that I have buttered you up……
I am going to call bullchit on the above. I think you repeated the convo that your son had with YOU to your W as…..a little guilt trip for YOUR W. You could have said that your son was dealing with some emotional stuff and if she pushed YOU for more details, you could very well suggested that she speak with your son about it. YOU threw it in her face. You USED your son. and because YOU did and I suspect she recognized it….She….
Spew and defense (no need to explain the defense, it was same s__t you all know) from her.
Luckily you recovered….it seems. Honestly, I know she thanked you for letting her know. I just wonder if you really needed to provide that much detail. Maybe I am wrong.
In other news, I bought my son his first basketball today - spent the morning on the court
I love hoops…I played point guard when I was a kid. I still have a warped looking pinky finger because of it. I pray that you and your son have lot of fun on the court.
Peace
Eric
Eric, my PR comrade of recovery...well rested?
I agree. That said, you can help minimize the impact. Create an enviornment that your son feels comfortable talking about how he feels is KEY.
Doing my very best. His interaction with me tells me at worst I am teaching him to drive, at best I am helping him put on snow tires.
Ummm….tell me about it. Trying to understand it…really will just drive you crazy (i.e….applying the “model approach as you mentioned”)
Indeed sir, that quote was my allegorical bow to myself for being in the final stages of the self-sequence as I have experienced it.
As much as this may seem so stressful…it really is not. You really can be who ever you want to be TODAY…and tomorrow..you can decide who you want to be that day. My point….is that when you learn to take life day by day, it get easier.
So a mile marker (like mile markers are in the south. I feel like I read you live in CT. I've been there a few times, CT's exits do not correspond with the actual mileage you have covered in the state, which seems like an obscene was to save on on road signage, nice stone fences though) for me. I was listening to the audio book of NMMNG and the author began speaking to the importance of being alone. I made an intrinsic choice to truly become comfortable alone a few months ago. I realized when I was finishing the audio book the other day that I have succeeded in this, I actually feel really good alone. As in comfortable. Used to be different type of alone I sought. You are entirely correct, I write my own story.
Your mother was a smart women!
Well, she still is, mostly. She spoke 12 languages in her life and was a UN translator. In my teenage years I witnessed her add no. 13 when she befriend an Italian woman and my mother taught herself Italian based upon being fluent in Latin and Spanish, simply amazing. She was not always healthy though, she beat me, she belittled me. However, in my past 7 months of chrysalis I have learned to value the good and the bad qualities of her I can learn from, as well as offering her the most I can when I can offer it. "Look closely at the present you are constructing, it should look like the future you are dreaming" - Alice Walker.
CT, you know I like ya right? I mean really – right? Ummm…not in that way…I just like ya. I think you are really a nice guy. Now that I have buttered you up……
I am going to call bullchit on the above. I think you repeated the convo that your son had with YOU to your W as…..a little guilt trip for YOUR W. You could have said that your son was dealing with some emotional stuff and if she pushed YOU for more details, you could very well suggested that she speak with your son about it. YOU threw it in her face. You USED your son. and because YOU did and I suspect she recognized it….She….
1. I do know you like me. I am further inclined to think that if you saw me, "that way" would be an option for you, even if it would not be reciprocated on my part. This total package is money.
2. Out of curiosity, since you phrased it as a question, I ran it through a search engine.
3. First hit I clicked on was a top 10 list of "genuine friendship". No. 1 on the list - They push us to be more accepting of ourselves. “People feel better about themselves when they have close, supportive and encouraging people in their lives.” No.2 on the list - They call us out when we’re in the wrong. “They’re able to point out some of the negative things you’re doing in addition to the positive." So, long story long, yes I trust you Eric.
4. Dr. Roy J. Lewicki stated of a mixed-motive scenario, "...because people are more likely to perceive negotiation as a win-lose than win-win, conflict and competitiveness drive out cooperation and trust..."
5. You are correct, I did throw it in her face and I did use my son. It was not conscious at the time, but in hindsight, and having finished the NMMNG audio after that incident, further, reading your input, I can't help but see it with any other truth.
Luckily you recovered….it seems. Honestly, I know she thanked you for letting her know. I just wonder if you really needed to provide that much detail. Maybe I am wrong.
Yes, she did, maybe I did not, maybe you are or perhaps you are not. The motives as to why I did are the ones in question. I did feel she should hear it, I did feel like saying it, I did not know the conscious motive When I was in the moment, I did feel guilt on applying my son into the situation afterwards, I learned something from the situation, I forgive myself for it.
I love hoops…I played point guard when I was a kid. I pray that you and your son have lot of fun on the court.
Being raised half-German, I am confident God will not strike me dead for thinking soccer is my second favorite sport, but the German army might; so I stand by soccer. However, the other half is coastal North Carolina mutt blood from NC State heritage and that means B-ball. My boy has the genetics to become a tall, bronze skinned, muscular mega-plex on the hardwood if he one day wishes. Should this $25 Spalding B-ball get him closer to his wishes in life or if it just passes out time, I will be good either way, hopefully he is too.
I still have a warped looking pinky finger because of it.
I insist on perfection, thus I could never like you "in that way" unless that way means enjoying a conversation which challenges me, provides me with smiles, inspirations, and allows for joyful awareness - in such a case, it's all the way.
And peace unto you.
Andrew P. - How are you enjoying the book? A fun little text, yes? Supposedly written for children - I would say he threads a needle.
Andrew P. - How are you enjoying the book? A fun little text, yes? Supposedly written for children - I would say he threads a needle.
I spent some time with him last night. I chose to read the book aloud which added a lot to the experience I think. I got about 1/2 way through last night.
My Lord. I haven't cried that hard in weeks. I finished it last night with the help of a glass of Merlot. It was especially moving because I'd read previously that the rose was a reference to his own wayward wife.
Reading it aloud - which the cats didn't seem to appreciate as much as I thought they would - really made it hit harder. I have no idea how you managed to finish it with S5. Perhaps having that audience gave you more motivation to stay focused on telling the story rather than thinking about it.
Lots to think about in that book. I quite like how even though the Little Prince found an entire rosebush that he still recognized how special his own rose was to him. The narrator's care for the Little Prince certainly reminded me of my own vulnerability. I wish there was someone to make sure that my own flame is not blown out. I do have S22/D24 plus friends and family though who are helping to watch my flame.
More than any scholarly work or scientific analysis, more even than some of the motivational, inspirational things that have been shared with me here, this story helped me understand myself, my lingering codependency to W and to be proud of wanting to nurture and protect her. She only has 4 thorns and the sheep's muzzle is missing the leather strap.
Thank you again so much.
More than any scholarly work or scientific analysis, more even than some of the motivational, inspirational things that have been shared with me here, this story helped me understand myself, my lingering codependency to W and to be proud of wanting to nurture and protect her. She only has 4 thorns and the sheep's muzzle is missing the leather strap.
Thank you again so much.
Pretty amazing - and it's supposed to be a kids book. I am really glad you enjoyed it my friend. I thought the fox character was truly an interesting inclusion. I mean, was the fox a muse? One to teach him the truth of love, was the fox his rebound, was the fox his A? Really interesting. Nonetheless, the fox was part of his journey.
I'm sure that there are lots of analysis that could be done of that book. Just like here different people will get different things out of it because of how their own perceptions colour what the read/hear. I thought of the rose bushes as the temptation for an A, the fox in hindsight was definitely an A but it taught him the importance of love and reminded him to think of his rose. The rose itself I actually don't recall meeting in the book. She's talked about but never actually present.
Funny too that you consider the snake to be a major character where to me he was just a tool used by the author to end the Little Prince's journey.
Looking at the stars may never be the same. I know that I'll often look at them and know that W is under those same stars as well.
Thanks for not minding the high-jack for literary criticism.
I have very much put that book on my shelf for now. I think I'll need to be a lot stronger before I can read it again. It did crack a number of pieces of my shell but perhaps in a good way. I honestly don't know.
You are welcome here anytime to speak as you will. I am glad you enjoyed the book. I don't have it figured out either, but perhaps a thing of beauty is just that. Nice take on the rose bush.
Hope your day is going well.
I have had my son all weekend since Saturday morning when spouse dropped him off at 830am. As I typically do not have him for full weekends (save the one other time before) it has been a joy.
Yesterday, trip to the neighboring city for Arbor Day and we planted a tree together. Got the oil changed (brutal for him, but that's life, I thought it skced too), and then just some hang time on a playground. Today we watched a movie in the morning and played some more basketball. Started raining so came home and I got a nap in on the sofa while he watched some cartoons.
Now,,, rains is ending - time to play superhero figures with him...
That's the man! Keep being a great dad. Your S will remember all this.
CT
Eric, my PR comrade of recovery...well rested?
A little – If only I could hit powerball and retire on a beach somewhere….
I feel like I read you live in CT
Indeed I do. I was born and raised in NYC though….and will ables be a new yawker.
I actually feel really good alone. As in comfortable.
It’s a good place to be. Comfortable is the perfect word to use to describe it.
You are correct, I did throw it in her face and I did use my son.
I am glad you realized it – now that you know…do better next time.
As for the like me comment….that was me trying to kid around. I am engaged to an amazing women and have been for a few years.
Now,,, rains is ending - time to play superhero figures with him...
1) I hope he has a batman figure or at a minimum wolverine.
2) Enjoy these moments with him.
BTW, why do you not have your son for full weekends?
CT
Just checking in....you okay?
Eric,
Thanks buddy. Yes - OK. Full disclosure, did hit a speed bump above the posted limit, but recovered well. Explain in a moment.
First, about above - I knew you were kidding around about the "like" "like" stuff, why I joked back. Second - as I was partially raised from 10yrs old-15yrs old by a wonderful PR family, I so desperately wanted to make a joke about you most likely being from NYC (the capital of PR!) but I didn't(but I may just have)
I love PR's - they have adopted me on many level. As a kid, as a preteen/teen growing up in D.C. and then as a young 20's adult when I follow a friend to Miami briefly. Full on family oriented. Least I could do was learn some Spanish,which I did, not well, but I can find whoooreyes, liquor, and a beach if lost in any Spanish location.
Third - 3 Batman figures and two Batman bases - the only bases he has. As well,the only vehicles he has are Batmobile and a Batcycle. Question - what knowledge can a son acquire which makes a grown man cry with pride? A hint - Who is the underdog that win's in Miller's the "Dark Knight". S5 does not believe in Clark. (emocon for pride nonexistent).
Last - I do not have full weekends with my son b/c that is not what spouse and I agreed upon. Simple as that, we split Fridays 2/2 per month and she takes Sat, I take Sun. Not sure if that is a thing in the real D world, but it works for us.
On the speed bump - Actually had very little contact with spouse in the past couple weeks. I personally did not mind as I think less contact is better than negative contact.
More story than I feel like telling - will if asked. Mostly an energy thing as I have written over 50 pages for school since Saturday and emails for work.,..but if asked I will. Long story short. Spouse and I had a mega up and and a mega down in the span of Monday-Wednesday. I felt strange in reflection - like all of me cared and none of me cared at points (it was not an argument or a fight, btw, it was an "I love you" from her followed by her friend contacting the next day telling me something of OM - so way fking annoying).
Anyway - I have also been huge busy with work - live on a southern coast where I manage land, hurricane Matthew coming (awesome BTW, wife's OM's name is same as hurricane). So, storm is dodging right, Woman at work asks me out for coffee today - I accept. I have liked her for sometime, kept my distance, knowing I am not available now. Today I accepted. Coffee+chick I like + very nice conversation = she certainly and blatantly states she likes me. X variable, ....me.
Randomly and even more unexpectedly. I get home with son, I am cooking dinner. Tet alarm goes off. I ignore. 20min later I look. Random lovely woman from college - Filipino philosophy major from college whom I mentioned before convinced me to buy "Little Prince" way back...the one I JUST MFING DISCUSSED W/ ANDREWP...yes her. Invite to a movie, out of nowhere she lives near me, asks if she can take me to a movie about The Clash, which is a band that I love. (Everyone should love). So, I leave it there. Just too fking weird. Her asking me to a movie from nowhere when I had just gotten done speaking about her was way fking weird.
My son is with me tonight. That is why I said no. If he were not with me, for which I made zero apologies to her for, I would have gone.
Hey CT
Just checking in...are you okay? I know the storm hit you guys. I hope that everything is okay and you and yours were not impacted.
Oh...as for the dating thing....
Do you think you are ready to casually date?
eric - yes, I am ok, and in more ways than one. The hurricane did hit - record flood levels. I am fortunately awesome enough to drive a Jeep Wrangler so the up to 4ft, got that. Judging by a vry unscientific survey, Honda Accord and Chevy Volt drivers - not so awesome.
Do I think I am ready? No...its been a few days. I have gone on a few dates during this journey, mostly from bad advice before I got here. I went on one since I got here and it went fine, great actually, but I am not available. I am not available.
The variable, my M. I still want my M. I believe in M. I have changed so greatly and know that I hold M in my hands. I know that I am strong enough to let it go or to keep it. I am in a new leg of my journey - guessing you are familiar with it? Where I know there is more than one future, in anyone of them I will be OK. I feel really good about that. It has not even been a year - not year. The limbo abides; my self knows more, I can be free to make my own choices. Right now, I still need and want to choose just me.
CT
I am fortunately awesome enough to drive a Jeep Wrangler
I just traded mine in. I’ll probably get another one once my lease is up. I picked up a loaded Grand Cherokee.
As for dating…..
Action vs Words – IMHO, Actions speak louder. Let me show you something…
Do I think I am ready? No
I still want my M. I believe in M
These ^^^ are words…
I went on one since I got here and it went fine, great actually, but I am not available. I am not available.
This ^^^^ is action
Your actions do not match your words and IF I can see it…..so can your W.
It has not even been a year - not year.
Yet you still went on the date. Not judging….just pointing out something for you to think about.
Right now, I still need and want to choose just me.
Then focus on YOU – give yourself the time you need to do that. Dating may impact that.
As for dating…..
Action vs Words – IMHO, Actions speak louder. Let me show you something…
Do I think I am ready? No
I still want my M. I believe in M
These ^^^ are words…
I went on one since I got here and it went fine, great actually, but I am not available. I am not available.
This ^^^^ is action
Understood.
Your actions do not match your words and IF I can see it…..so can your W.
Are you referring to the fact that I went on a date? Also understood if you are. If not please expand.
It has not even been a year - not year.
Yet you still went on the date. Not judging….just pointing out something for you to think about.
Yeah...this gave me pause.
Right now, I still need and want to choose just me.
Then focus on YOU – give yourself the time you need to do that. Dating may impact that.
True, it would.
When you do this...
...what do those arrows pointing upward mean?
Thanks, as always. You should get another jeep, you will miss it. I have an '06 with the stright 6 AMC engine, manual 6 speed transmission. Love driving that thing.
Your actions do not match your words and IF I can see it…..so can your W.
Are you referring to the fact that I went on a date? Also understood if you are. If not please expand.
Simply ??
Words= you want to save your marriage, and aren't ready to date...
Actions= you go out on a date....
And a WAS can smell that, like a drug dog on a Cheech & Chong movie set...
Your actions do not match your words and IF I can see it…..so can your W.
Are you referring to the fact that I went on a date? Also understood if you are. If not please expand.
Does that explain the constant questions? ex. "are you going on a date tonight?" "you look great, going on a date tonight?" "what are your plans this weekend?"
I don't answer these questions with anything but moving on with what was happening already in the conversation, they usually come during the "see ya later" part of exchanging our son.
Simply ??
Words= you want to save your marriage, and aren't ready to date...
Actions= you go out on a date....
And a WAS can smell that, like a drug dog on a Cheech & Chong movie set...
Does that explain the constant questions? ex. "are you going on a date tonight?" "you look great, going on a date tonight?" "what are your plans this weekend?"
I don't answer these questions with anything but moving on with what was happening already in the conversation, they usually come during the "see ya later" part of exchanging our son.
It could...
I don't think that it is a bad thing ...
However, I wouldn't exactly say that it's a sign either...
Why do you think that she is asking those things ??
I just wanna hear what you are thinking....
It could...
I don't think that it is a bad thing ...
However, I wouldn't exactly say that it's a sign either...
Why do you think that she is asking those things ??
I just wanna hear what you are thinking....
I think if I try to answer that I would be mind reading, and I am trying my best to be a day at a time. However, when I do allow myself to ponder it, I arrive at a few options: She is hoping at some point I will just say "yes, I am dating someone" to relieve her guilt from hurting me and for her dating someone else. -Or- she truly does mean the compliments and she is trying to figure out what motivated the changes b/c she is not in a place in her mind right now to connect the fact that perhaps, I made deliberate changes in myself, on my own and unprovoked by another woman b/c I saw/wanted to change things I did not like. -Or- she is really does wish to take a step towards me, but currently still feel too damaged, unready, confused, ashamed, etc. to feel like she can. That is all I have arrived at. I am not sure I back a particular horse, and I do suppose some hybrid of all of the above could exist on different days.
On the same lines of things I am not reading into are her deep hugs she has been giving me, the occasional cheek kisses, and the recent occasional "I love you"'s she has been dropping.If it was still June, I could still explain it, b/c at that time I thought the A was over, as she said, and I was still fixing/supporting/saving, but now, that is not happening.
I do validate per the Wonka roadmap I adopted from my early days to the board. I have rescued recently, but only as it involved my son. Ex being this past weekend when I drove through the flood water to pick him up so she did not have to drop him off (I have a hi-wheel 4x4 Jeep as I said, she does not, it was safer transport for my son, plus I had already been out, her car would not have made it). But on the flip, she called me tonight with "hey, how are you. I know its last minute and not your childcare night, but if you could take him, I will watch him an extra..."etc. I said no, I had things I had already planned to do.
So like I said, I am not sure where her motivation comes from and while I do allow thought on it, this is far from obsession or salivation in her direction.
CT
what do those arrows pointing upward mean?
The arrows are used to point upwards. Usually because there is a reference that I am making on that specific quote. For an example see below.
I think if I try to answer that I would be mind reading, and I am trying my best to be a day at a time.
This ^^^^ one of the best things I have seen you post. Love it. Exactly what you should be doing. One day at a time….and no mind reading.
I have rescued recently, but only as it involved my son. Ex being this past weekend when I drove through the flood water to pick him up so she did not have to drop him off (I have a hi-wheel 4x4 Jeep as I said, she does not, it was safer transport for my son, plus I had already been out, her car would not have made it).
I would not have called this rescue. To me, I call it….going to make sure that you spend time with your son.
But on the flip, she called me tonight with "hey, how are you. I know its last minute and not your childcare night, but if you could take him, I will watch him an extra..."etc. I said no, I had things I had already planned to do.
IMO, I think was good on many levels. My only question/comment would be…. If you really did not have anything planned – then it is a tactic (still sometimes not a bad move).
So like I said, I am not sure where her motivation comes from and while I do allow thought on it, this is far from obsession or salivation in her direction.
Great place to be.
As far as the Wrangler, I had a 2013 (was my second one – I had a 2009 too) 4 door with 33’s, brush bars, fog lights in the front and on the brush bar, light bar on the top and small lights on the side. It was black…all black…with nice black rims. I still miss it but I really do love the ride I get in the Grand Cherokee. I would like to see if future models have a bit more power….ya know….throw a Hemi in it.
I had a 1998 Wrangler TJ. Lots of fun but it cost a fortune to maintain especially with the miles I drove. I never drove it aggressively off-road which was a shame. Not an issue for you people in the banana belt but it was nasty in the winter. Several times including once with an on-coming transport truck the rear skidded out on ice and I literally went spinning in doughnuts down the highway. Very scary stuff.
I replaced it after 320,000km with a Toyota Echo which actually did as good in deep snow as the TJ.
Eric/AP - thank you for the replies. I do want to let MACH1 know I am still interested in his reply as well.
Eric, thank you for clarity on the arrows, I have wondered for a while and never got around to asking.
CT
I think if I try to answer that I would be mind reading, and I am trying my best to be a day at a time.
This ^^^^ one of the best things I have seen you post. Love it. Exactly what you should be doing. One day at a time….and no mind reading.
Thank you, and I did not even say it with any anticipation of pleasing my mentors
I would not have called this rescue. To me, I call it….going to make sure that you spend time with your son.
Yes, I would add not spending my time with him in the hospital for his hypothermia - I lost count of how many vehicles I saw wrecked/abandoned/flipped on that day with people standing around like "I can't believe my family sedan would not drive through 3 feet of overflowing swamp water".
IMO, I think was good on many levels. My only question/comment would be…. If you really did not have anything planned – then it is a tactic (still sometimes not a bad move).
So, this was good too, b/c I had just shared with a close friend this same day that I had bailed her out of a couple jams recently and I would not have if these jams did not posses the direct possibility of affecting my son's life towards the negative. Then later that day, I got to walk my talk. I did actually have something planned - I had planned to write a paper for a Graduate class which was due today, drink half a six pack, and then watch some HBO. I could have easily achieved the above after son was in bed, but, my son was not in trouble if I said no...so I did. She accepted my rejection cordially and without obvious disappointment or argument (something I may have received a couple of months ago). In all fairness to you via my answer, I have used a statement about having plans when I really didn't in the past, certainly as a tactic.
So like I said, I am not sure where her motivation comes from and while I do allow thought on it, this is far from obsession or salivation in her direction.
Great place to be.
Yes, but as a "compared to..." I had a very hard week - the last week. I was physically and mentally exhausted for many reasons. Some of them were my sitch, extreme GAL effort, but a whole lot were just work and how it has blown me up as of late. I hit a low in my efforts at life in general and felt very fed up; as in an "I am so GD tired" low, not a depressed low, it blurred my vision figuratively speaking. So why I caveat your comment - you are correct, I do feel where I am in this sitch of myself now vs my old self in indeed a great place to be...I cannot help but notice the ups and downs of where I am today still happen. However, they are different from before detachment.
Before detachment my ups and downs were emotional, needy, and generally just a sad reflection of the man I know myself to be. This period of me felt unrecoverable at times. Now, the downs, well, in short I do believe I am learning to accept the emotion, see it as natural, see it as normal, let it move through, know it will pass, and then get back to the positive progression after I let the engine cool.
As far as the Wrangler, I had a 2013 (was my second one – I had a 2009 too) 4 door with 33’s, brush bars, fog lights in the front and on the brush bar, light bar on the top and small lights on the side. It was black…all black…with nice black rims. I still miss it but I really do love the ride I get in the Grand Cherokee. I would like to see if future models have a bit more power….ya know….throw a Hemi in it.
Action speaks louder than words...in my opinion^^^^these are words.
You should get another jeep, you will miss it. I have an '06 with the stright 6 AMC engine, manual 6 speed transmission. Love driving that thing.
These ^^^^^ are actions.
(I hope you are getting my sense of humor at this point my friend, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!) In all seriousness, I owned a '94 cherokee prior to two Wranglers and I beat that thing down on many a trail, she got up smiling each time - even when I hit a deer at 55mph, lost the radiator into the fan, and drove another 30 miles with the heat on full blast to vent the engine.
I had a 1998 Wrangler TJ. Lots of fun but it cost a fortune to maintain especially with the miles I drove. I never drove it aggressively off-road which was a shame. Not an issue for you people in the banana belt but it was nasty in the winter. Several times including once with an on-coming transport truck the rear skidded out on ice and I literally went spinning in doughnuts down the highway. Very scary stuff.
I had a '98 with a 4" lift prior to my current '06. It died a noble death after two consecutive weekends on the beach in Outer Banks, NC on sand trails followed by a weekend in West Virginia at my parents retirement land where I put it against granite and mud. A cylinder blew on the ride home, I drove the remaining 80 miles on three cylinders over blue highways smoking oil the whole way - got there and "pieced it out" on craigs list for 1/2 recovery of what I paid for it - only one Jeep.
I think if I try to answer that I would be mind reading, and I am trying my best to be a day at a time. However, when I do allow myself to ponder it, I arrive at a few options: She is hoping at some point I will just say "yes, I am dating someone" to relieve her guilt from hurting me and for her dating someone else. -Or- she truly does mean the compliments and she is trying to figure out what motivated the changes b/c she is not in a place in her mind right now to connect the fact that perhaps, I made deliberate changes in myself, on my own and unprovoked by another woman b/c I saw/wanted to change things I did not like. -Or- she is really does wish to take a step towards me, but currently still feel too damaged, unready, confused, ashamed, etc. to feel like she can. That is all I have arrived at. I am not sure I back a particular horse, and I do suppose some hybrid of all of the above could exist on different days.
On the same lines of things I am not reading into are her deep hugs she has been giving me, the occasional cheek kisses, and the recent occasional "I love you"'s she has been dropping.If it was still June, I could still explain it, b/c at that time I thought the A was over, as she said, and I was still fixing/supporting/saving, but now, that is not happening.
Just seeing that you had thoughts about it, was what I expected...
Seeing that you are probably correct on most of those levels, was a little unexpected...
Seeing you type that it doesn't really matter about her, this is about my journey now, and IF she is there at the end, then that will be a bonus...
Was what I was hoping for....
What ? you were expecting something different ?
Ya gotta watch those expectations....
CT
(I hope you are getting my sense of humor at this point my friend, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!)
I do.
Seeing you type that it doesn't really matter about her, this is about my journey now, and IF she is there at the end, then that will be a bonus...
Was what I was hoping for....
From a few posts above the one you replied on...
Where I know there is more than one future, in anyone of them I will be OK. I feel really good about that.
Perhaps not exactly the same as the 'hope', but a close as I have right now. Does not seem too far away.
What ? you were expecting something different ?
Ya gotta watch those expectations....
Mach - you delivered my expectations entire, Eric always does too...honest observation. Criticism and compliments welcomed alike, learning how to receive this and excited about it. From you - i heard the control loud and clear...working hard. From Wonka (via 5LL), I realized I am the affirmation. From Eric, I realized I am an addict for praise and reward based behavior. Signaled - time to get to work.
Of course others have assisted and other lessons learned - in this particular response though... well, much appreciated.
Back to day wages now...
Hey man, thank you. You do too. I had tacos tonight with son and spouse (I asked them out, accepted, bill was dutch). Then took my son for the entire weekend (hey - great advice Eric, I asked for this too). He is coloring pumpkins on paper and practicing his name, I am sitting at same table with laptop (floor table, like we are Japanese or something - not sure how this happened, but many strange things happen when a middle aged man gets his own place again.), frequent breaks for the random fun.
Tomorrow, Octoberfest at a fellow Deutsches Bruderplatze. His son was in NICU with my son - he got a babysitter at the house for both our kids while we blitzkreig some Heffe's and Knackwurst with many other German descents and dissidents. Plus, in the morning, I promised my son I would take him by work just for a minute and run the backhoe while he sits on my lap. This may be frowned upon so, shhhhhh......
Sunday - no plans, but weather is really nice, so thinking hike through a swamp or some sand dunes. Would prefer a swamp, but mosquito volume and temperature may dictate swamp entry.
And, if we just sit in the apartment and staree at each other, that is cool too - he's my son. You open or planned? - look more pumpkins!
Kids got to learn how to drive the backhoe at some point. Just saying...! Have fun!
Altair- put him to bed about 30 minutes ago - if I could post pics I would. Grand irony of becoming a boss, that expertise which got you there becomes less of your average day.
Been working a whole lot. Feeling of very busy. I felt more together this summer in terms of time and how I spent it, was doing very fun things with most days. Hit the doldrums of midway point in my Master's Degree semester. Just so much reading to do. Going to go out today, buy some new clothes I think.
Had an old friend in town this weekend, grew up with the man. Was good to see him. His W is due w/ their first kid in January. He is one of two friends I have trusted with my whole sitch since the get go. Ironically, he has been thinking of leaving his W the entire time. I have known this. But, for the first time this weekend, I heard him say that he wasn't sure if wanted to or should.
So yesterday he and I met my W and s5 (she has him this weekend) for early dinner. When it was done we all said goodbye and I put my s5 into W's car and kissed him goodnight. Later on when my friend and I got back to my apartment we were having a beer on my balcony, I told him "did you see me put my son into her car and kiss him goodnight? That does not get easier, that never feels good to see him get driven away from me, but that's what it looks like." He said "yeah, I watched it. I felt kind of bad for being there, like maybe it was embarrassing to you or her". I told him "No, it wasn't and that's not why I said it. I said it so you would know what it will look like for you if you leave your wife once your kid is born. It's you saying goodbye to you child and watching them drive away. So really, make sure this is what you want." I gave him my copy of DB before he left this morning. He was very receptive to it.
I went a little dark on W two weeks ago. This week she was very talkative, wanting to speak with me on the phone a lot. Open I would say. She mentioned some really bad spending habits, still stressing on our s5. She called me not long after my friend and I left dinner lest night. She wanted us to come over and hang out at her place. In asking, she was very teenage back and forth, just like I described a few weeks ago when she asked me out for dinner. I declined her offer, said my friend and I were going to meet some other friend at my apartment later, which was true.
Now, some new pants are in my future today, weather has changed and I need something new to put on.
I can't imagine what I wish to say right now.I will give it a shot, admittedly, not my best shot. I have wanted to come here a tell a story. However, after two exams and the issues at work I am tired of typing. My story has changed, thing is, i felt....relief. She told me she was done and I felt no need: need fro tears, need for control, need for want, need for...., well....her.
Sorry, this is all I have at this moment, not b/c of sitch b/c I am smoked. I thought the days of no sleep due to sitch were tiring, they got nothin' on doubling up to get thru grad school.
CT
Hugs man....post when you can.
One piece of advice - before responding to her...i.e. calling texting, emailing... Come here first and let us know what you plan to say.
CT1118 - You've done great and have great things ahead of you my Brother. You have healed and your spirit can now soar free. It turns out that you had use for the snake after all my Prince.
When you get your head back together I'm looking forward to hearing more.
I just got done with two weeks of mid-terms, 4 papers (finished two tonight), and some training for the Red Cross, which I am particularly excited to join as a disaster first-responder, but the training is excessive - it should be though. On top of that I opened two new buildings at work, hired two new people, and negotiated a 0% loan to consolidate the massive amount of credit debit incurred by my M which is all in my name (I will say she pays what I ask her too, which is half). As well, I was up late last night completing an hour long lecture for a conference which I delivered today to a 150 person audience - that at least released some dopamine for me and I did awesome, which I usually do. Not being conceited, just extremely talented at public speaking, no shame in knowing what you are good at.
In brief, I cannot really give full background on my sitch as it involves my son and medical issues. He was diagnosed with an LD I also have, it is genetic, and it is good this was caught early. Spouse was very upset and told me she had been crying for 48hours and asked if I could send her information on it. OK. So the next day I sent some of the info I had on my hard drive. She is against medicine (won't even take aspirin), so in one sentence I told her that an LD can make an individual feel very lonely and like a disappointment and that medication changed my life. That I felt horrible our son had inherited this (not in a fault way), but it was manageable. She had mentioned something about loving our son and she would only be ok if he was. I had written that love would not conquer this, but it could put fuel in the tank, however, this was going to require work from all of us. My total response really was only about 5-6 sentences, minus the data files.
I got back a response about how I could never disappoint but the idea of feeling loss between her or I was intolerable. She said she would always love me but could not be what I needed, went into stuff about spending her time with a "daft" person (her AP, he got upgraded, last time I received an email like this she called him 'bullsht'. He may wish to high -5 himself if he knew this) And anyway, it went about she doesn't want to hurt me but she will cause me pain because she is a horrible person and all in all, it was identical not only to the other 4 or 5 emails I have received from her in the past 8 months which said damn near identical things and followed, in some places, word for word spew from an MLC that I have either read here or read elsewhere. Each time I received one of these, the circumstance on my end were totally different in terms of anything I may have said which prompted.
So, I don't think I am going to say anything. I don't really want to. Not as a defense, I just don't really care to, don't feel any need to. I am not sure I am really looking for advice, but always open to it. I am not sure how long I have known this, but this is all really my choice at this point. From what she wrote, not explicitly, but she actually thinks that if she just showed up my door and said take me back, that I would. And truth be told, I did feel a minor tug to combat that one, as I would not do something like that without more signs of healing than wanting me. However, my exchanges her in the late summer led me to spend my past 4 weeks with IC discussing control and the 'need' to feel justified. So, I dismissed that feeling pretty quickly and it was gone.
My relief really came from reading that note she sent and thinking about how it made me feel. I would guess on some deep unconscious level I may have wanted a hard test of my feelings. I believe I passed, at least from my criteria. I just felt no need to fix or control her, no need to defend myself (had she been in my face yelling, yup that is a boundary I defend by stopping it, but this was email and I don't know if it would have been yelling in person), no need to explain my motivations.
I am taking my son to his first hockey game tomorrow night. I don't have him on Halloween which is unfortunate, so I will also take him to some city costume event for kids in the morning when she drops him off. I am going to finish this six pack now, which I am drinking not out of reflection or sadness, but out of the fact that I want them and I wish to not think about anything regarding school or work or my sitch - just the Sopranos, which is a show I never saw when it was on and am just now getting to enjoy it.
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Me and Midlife and...III