http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2700462&page=1Hello,
I have been on the newcomers board but Sandi2 thought I might get better advice over here. I posted a link to my thread over there.
Here is a brief summary of what is going on.
I'm 39 and my W will be 36 tomorrow. We have a S6 and S2. We have been together for 12 years and married for 10. My W has been very successful at work but it has caused us to move around a lot. We have lived in OH, AZ, FL, NY, OH and GA over the last 10 years. With all the moving around and the 2 young boys I became a stay at home dad about 5 1/2 years ago.
Our marriage has been pretty typical I would say. Normal up and downs with only really trouble one time. In the winter of 2008-2009 my W had a EA with a man that lasted about 2-3 months. The guy actually lived in OH while we were in AZ and she traveled there to see him. They ended up kissing but nothing else. A couple of months later we got our marriage back together and for the most part it has been relatively normal since.
In late July my W had to go to Las Vegas for a work conference where I believe the last night a work colleague of hers tried to kiss her. She said she didn't let him (but I don't know if this is true). Anyway a couple days after she got home she started texting him a lot. I have found out they text close to 150 times a day. About a week after her EA started with the OM she sat me down and told me she didn't think she could be in our marriage anymore. She said she was unhappy and had been for a long time. This was all news to me, I will admit our marriage has gotten stale and our communication was bad but I never thought it was over. In fact we had just bought a house at the end of June. I couldn't understand who would buy a house and then want a divorce a month later. That same night I found her texting the OM and I managed to read a few of the texts which of course were sexual. She said he didn't mean anything and it just made her feel good and wanted. I asked her to stop and work on our marriage, but she didn't know if she could.
Over the last 3 weeks she has became more normal towards me. At first she was very cold and distant. She was often angry at me but lately she has acted normal. She moved into the guest room and she told me she is more comfortable now because she feels like we are roommates.
She has also started to see a therapist.Through therapy she has discovered she has abandonment issues with me. Her dad and mom divorced when she was 6 and she has always had a bad relationship with her dad. Then her stepdad (who she always considered her real dad) died of ALS when she was 18. She told me she is angry towards him for dying and leaving her. She also explained that before she met me she would cheat on a boyfriend so she wouldn't get hurt. She said she would rather do the hurting. She said she thinks this is what she is doing to me now.
She also told me about being raped by a boyfriend in college. She had mentioned it once before when we had just started dating, but I didn't really know what to say and she never brought it up again. She has had sexual issues since we got married. She told me recently she hates sex. She said she finds it gross an doesn't want to do it. I asked her if it had to do with the rape and she said she wasn't sure.
I have also thought about how she is with our kids. She is a great mom when the kids are in need. If the kids are sick she is supermom and will take care of them. With the more day to day stuff she doesn't seem interested. I know she works hard and it's really on me to raise them during the week, but it is not uncommon for her not to even call home when she is out of town. She will tell me she fell asleep or had to stay out late and didn't want to wake us.
The OM who she is having an EA with lives about 3 hours away. He holds the same position as her but works in a different office. Last week she had to go to his office to work with him for one day. She spent the night there before coming home the next day. I don't know if the EA turned to PA last week.
I actually didn't know if she was still having the EA because on 8/11 I tried to login to our phone account and it said the password was wrong. I figured she must have changed the password and didn't say anything. Last night I was bored and tried the password again and got into the account. That's when I discovered the EA is still going strong. She is being more discreet now. She is mainly doing the texting while she is away from home or I am, but she texted him 2600 times since this started. She has to go back to his office in two weeks for 3 days and 2 nights so I'm figuring if nothing happened last time it will surely happen next time.
Like I mentioned at the beginning of this post. I don't know if she is an MLC, but Sandi thought maybe you all could help out because she wasn't sure what to do. I haven't told her that I found out about the texts other than the ones at the beginning. I feel I need to confront her but I am not really sure how to do that. I know this EA needs to end to have any chance to heal our marriage, but I don't know how that could happen.
Thanks for reading and sorry about the long summary.
Welcome to this board.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmMichele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmKeep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Summaries tend to be long and helpful.
OK, first off Cadet gave you a great list to spend some of your time reading through. There is a lot of great information in there. It'll help you pass the time too.
Its really up to you to determine if it is an MLC, as no one here is a professional. Although after saying that I believe there is a huge difference between a WAW and an MLCer.
Despite what she said about sex...are you going to be ok if her EA turns into a PA? To be honest, no matter what your answer is right now, you'll actually know when it happens.
I hope that you can still work on your marriage if it goes that way.
I feel I need to confront her but I am not really sure how to do that. I know this EA needs to end to have any chance to heal our marriage, but I don't know how that could happen.
Confronting her about it isn't going to snap her out of this. She isn't going to be grateful that you know, and she will change the password.
Which...would be good.
What you are doing is snooping, and its both addictive and harmful to you. You are going to have all sorts of reason to justify doing it...and all it is going to do is hurt you and your mental health.
Knowledge is power, yes. But in these cases knowledge is also pain. If you want to save your marriage stop snooping, if you want a divorce keep snooping.
A few questions for you.
Is she seemingly confused, or uncertain?
Is she dressing up or acting younger, working out more?
Has she re-written any of your married history?
Is she doing more fun things and forgetting her responsibilities?
OK and a few questions about you:
What are you doing for yourself? Are you keeping active?
Have you let yourself go since being married?
Do you have a decent real life support group? A few friends you can relax with?
A warning about friends and family. They will more than likely tell you to move on. They do this because they don't want to see you hurt and this is the easiest way to them to move on, you don't deserve this, blah, blah, blah.
Tell them that you want their support but that you want them to support your decision not to be constantly told to move on.
Be frank with them and if they can't do that then you need to limit your time around them if you are willing to stand for your marriage.
Welcome to the best worst place you can be.
Jack_Three_Beans, thanks for responding.
I had never thought about a MLC until Sandi2 brought it up to me this morning. I just assumed a MLC wouldn't happen to a women in her mid 30's. I need to do more research to try to figure this out.
I don't trust her about the sex. I know she doesn't like it but I think it might be different with a new man. When we first got together she loved to have sex (or at least she acted like it), then after we got married it went away. She would often get into it if she had a few drinks. That really loosened her up. It got to the point where if she had a few glasses of wine in the evening I knew we would probably have sex that night. At first that was good, but as time went on it began to make me feel bad. Like she will only have sex with me if she is drunk. When she visited his offices last week, I thought there was a 50/50 chance something physical could happen if she didn't drink, but if she had a few drinks at dinner I am almost positive something would happen. The only thing that may have saved it was that she was with 8 or 9 other people and had to drive back to the hotel with them.
As far as confronting her, that's where I am really unsure on what to do. It would be totally against my personality to confront her on this. I am too passive and would not want to start a confrontation. I am not strong enough and I hate to say it but maybe not man enough around her to challenge her on things. If I confronted her I think it would be not what she expected.
As far as the password goes, if she changed it I know it would be for the better. The last few weeks when it was changed were easier on me than the last day. I was clueless on what she was doing and I know I was better for it. If she did change it and then change it back then I don't know what she was trying to do. I don't know if she wants me to see the texts and that would lead me to divorce or if she wants me to speak up and fight for her. I'm thinking she wants me to want the divorce but who knows at this point.
A few questions for you.
Is she seemingly confused, or uncertain?
Is she dressing up or acting younger, working out more?
Has she re-written any of your married history?
Is she doing more fun things and forgetting her responsibilities?
OK and a few questions about you:
What are you doing for yourself? Are you keeping active?
Have you let yourself go since being married?
Do you have a decent real life support group? A few friends you can relax with?
As for answers to your questions:
At first she seemed confused or she was depressed. The first week this went on she didn't look at me or talk to me. Since she moved into the guest room she has been more herself and she told me she feels more comfortable because we are like roommates. She has also went to the doctor and started back on anti depressants, which she should have been taking all along but she had stopped (She suffers from panic attacks).
She also has told me she wants to divorce but she wants everything to remain the same. She wants me to continue to live at the house with her and take care of the kids while she works. She said she would pay for everything except things I want to do for entertainment or recreation. I told her that would not happen and she couldn't understand why. I told her people don't divorce and live happily ever after in the same house, but she practically begged me to make this happen.
She has lost a lot of weight since the EA started. She wasn't fat, she was average for a 35 year old women. Now she is really thin. I know she went to the doctor a couple of weeks ago and found out she had lost over 20 pounds since last December. She is basically not eating anymore. She has ate dinner with us once since this started. She also has started back at the gym the last couple of weeks. She still dresses the same, but she did go buy new bras and panties at Victoria Secret the week after this all started. Also, by my snooping I discovered she is looking into a tattoo, which is something she has never mentioned getting before.
I don't know how much marital history she has rewritten, but now she says she been unhappy for a very long time. I told her we've been up and down, but she said our marriage has been nothing but down. If it was so bad, I don't understand why we bought a house 2 months ago. You would think that would be something you wouldn't do if you were thinking about leaving.
I don't know if she is doing anything fun. She basically has a life that consists of going to work for about 12-13 hours a day and coming home and going to bed. Now she does spend most of her time at work texting the OM, but she isn't doing anything fun that I am aware of. She could be going places while I think she is at work, but I don't know. Even on the weekends she is not really doing anything. Also, her texts with the OM seem to stop or are reduced on the weekend. They text about 6 times on Saturday and none yesterday. Of course he sent her a text about 8 this morning and they have been texting all day. I wish I knew more about the OM. I know he was married, but I don't know if he is still. His wife or ex is on facebook but she hasn't mentioned him for almost 2 years.
As far as me, I am trying to stay busy. Taking care of these 2 boys takes up the week for me and the W is not here to help. The weekends are much the same. Spending time with the boys. This last weekend I spent a good portion of each day cleaning the house we were renting before we bought because the lease is up at the end of the month. I used to play golf at least once a week but I haven't done that since this all started. I have gotten to the driving range, but don't really have the desire to play right now.
I don't really have any close friends here. We have only lived here for 1 year and we've moved so much that it has been hard for me to meet new people. There are a few guys that I play golf with, but I haven't seen them since this started.
Finally, I have put on maybe 20 pounds since getting married. I don't dress as nice anymore because I am at home all day with the kids instead of going to the office. Most days are shorts and t-shirt for me. It's basically the same thing she wears when she is not at work.
I understand what you mean about family. The couple of people I have told about this basically have told me to dump her and move on. They seem more angry than I am at her. Also, I better not defend her on anything, because they will let me know about it. I think that's why I like posting here. Nobody knows me and everyone seems helpful. I am also going to go to a therapist tomorrow for the first time since this started.
A couple of other things.
She has basically got what she told me she wants right now except for the divorce. She has me at home taking care of the kids, house and yard. She has me to talk to if she has a bad day and she has the OM for her emotional needs.
Also, she knows I know about the EA because I found some texts on 8/8. So maybe I don't need to tell her I know that it is still going on. I know it won't make a difference. I have read so much on here that tells me I can't do anything by myself to get her to change her mind. I guess it's just frustrating and I want to tell her how I feel, which I know could be bad if I want to get her back. I guess I just feel like such a loser sitting her letting her do whatever she wants and part of me just wants to say I know what going on.
Eagle,
I have read your threads here and over on Newcomers. The age of 36 is not too young to have a MLC. We've had a few just a wee bit younger than that pop up over here.
So, you are the stay at home dad. What do you do when your wife returns from work? Do you stay at home or do you go out for the evening? Maybe it's time to start doing a 180 and leaving once she's at home. She needs some time to bond w/the children and what better way to do that than to sit at the dinner table and talk w/them while you are out. Nothing says you have to do this every evening...but you need to start doing some things for yourself. When you go out, just tell her that you are going out for a while. You don't need to tell her where you are going and w/whom. You could very well be taking a walk, going to a coffee shop for a cup of coffee or just sitting on a park bench, but you do need to start going out when she's home. In her mind, she doesn't think you will ever change your routine. Time to change up just a wee bit.
You do realize that the OM is nothing more than a crutch? They are using each other at the moment. He's stroking her ego and telling her what she wants to hear. While he's in the picture, he is a distraction for her. A distraction that keeps her from focusing on her issues and what she needs to do to figure things out for herself.
There is absolutely nothing you can do to snap her out of the crisis. Once it begins, she's got to go through the entire crisis and hopefully come out the other side a whole, mature person. If you attempt to snap them out of it and they come back into the relationship too soon, they will pick up where they off at a later time and it will be far worse than before. We are all fixers and this is one situation we can't fix for them. We didn't break them, therefore, we can't fix them. They have to do this on their own.
I know it's difficult living in the same house, but you'll need to start focusing more on you and your children. You will need to find some hobbies and start doing them, if you haven't already.
Please continue to ask questions, read as much as you can on depression and MLC. The main ingredient is depression. This is a long, long journey for both of you. It is not a sprint, but a marathon. Dig deeper for patience because you will need it as you travel the path.
I wish I knew more about the OM.
No. No you don't.
I used to play golf at least once a week but I haven't done that since this all started. I have gotten to the driving range, but don't really have the desire to play right now.
I didn't have a desire to eat or do anything, and that is...bad. Go out and do something even if you don't feel like it. Get out. You have to or you will turn into a pathetic mess.
There are a few guys that I play golf with, but I haven't seen them since this started.
Reconnect.
Playgrounds are a great way to meet new people as well. You'll have kids in common and who knows maybe you're kids will make new friends too.
I guess I just feel like such a loser sitting her letting her do whatever she wants
Feeling like a doormat right?
Read up on the doormat thread in Cadet's post.
You are not a loser.
You are NOT a loser.
What exactly could/can you do besides give up on the marriage?
Nothing you can do will force her, as you are discovering to snap her out of this.
You will need to find some hobbies and start doing them, if you haven't already.
Yes, this please.
I'll leave you with this thought, remember that friend of yours? The one whose girlfriend broke up with him and how he just moped around all the time and was depressed all the time?
Did you want to be around that guy after awhile?
Project confidence, be confident. Fake it until you make it.
When you look in the mirror, like that guys staring back, envy him.
Eagle, check out Brubeck's thread here in MLC. He has three young boys and is relatively new to this as well.
As cool as having vet's come and talk to you...nothing, absolutely nothing is as helpful as having someone in the same foxhole as you are in.
There are a lot of commonalities for you two.
If you guys hit it off, you will be supporting each other and pulling each other along far better than any of the vets here will.
Job, thanks for the words.
When she gets home from work I sometimes do take a walk, but the problem is she often doesn't get home until 7:30 - 8:00. By that time there is not much to do. I have thought about just going for a drive or something just to get out of the house and get some freedom and alone time. On the weekends we tend to alternate. Like this Saturday I went to the driving range and then when I got home she went to the gym. After she got home from the gym I went over to the rental house to clean that and was gone for 4 hours. Then we I got home she didn't hang out much and went to bed. This past weekend we didn't really spend anytime together. The previous weekend we actually went to our neighborhood pool as a family and had a normal time.
I do know the OM is just filling a hole in her life I guess right now. I honestly think she might be using him or they are using each other. She might be using him to stroke her ego and make her feel good about herself and he might be using her for sex. I don't think she loves him, I think he just makes her feel important. I could say the same things as he does and it wouldn't matter because I'm like damaged goods to her. At this point I would be shocked if this would turn into a long term relationship, but i was shocked she was in the relationship at all.
I have been reading these forums for a couple of weeks now and I read the DR so I am getting the idea that I can't do anything about it. It honestly doesn't make any sense but I have read enough posts by people who have been through this to believe that letting the affair run its course is the only way. I have actually not really pursued her. All I have asked is that when she feels she gets to know herself better that maybe we could give this another shot. I haven't really brought up the other man. I have acknowledged my issues and she knows I am working on them. We have had one fight about this and it was the first night, after I found out about the OM. We have talked about our issues about once a week. Last week I told her that even though I said I want to try again someday if she is up to it I can't guarantee that I would take her back. I told her it might not work for me.
Jack_three_beans, thanks for responding again. I really appreciate the help. I will start looking for some hobbies. I really need something to get my mind off this. I told my wife when this all went down that she had it easier because she goes to work all day and has something to take her mind off this, but I am home with the kids. The kids of course remind me of her and what is going on. I unfortunately have spent a few afternoons lately pacing around the house and talking to myself. Basically, trying to come up with what I would say to her with what ever situation comes up. Sometimes I think I am going crazy.
One thing I did do was talk my son to joining the cub scouts. He is in 1st grade so I do everything with him. I got him to sign up not only for him but for me as well. I thought I could do something new with my son and meet some parents as well. This is a little out of my comfort zone because I grew up a city boy and never was into the outdoors too much. I also maybe did it a little to show my W that I am willing to branch out and do things she wouldn't normally expect. Tonight was our first meeting and he seemed to enjoy it.
Tonight when we got home my son was talking to her and I was sitting on the couch staring at her. She didn't look the same. I can't explain it but the woman sitting there was totally different than the woman that was there a month ago. Her body is different, but just the way she carries herself is different. This probably doesn't make sense, but she just had an edge about her that I didn't like. Then she started to talk about a show she was watching and it seemed like she almost wanted to talk to me like she used to but she couldn't do it anymore. Her voice was flat with no emotion. This probably doesn't make sense, but it was sad to me.
One more post before bed.
I don't really know how to act around my W. For a week or so, I tried to be in a really good mood. I didn't show anything bothered me. I made sure I didn't show any grumpiness (W always said I was grumpy when she came home from work). I also had made sure to not criticize her for anything. Basically, I was the perfect roommate.
The last week or so I was still respectful and peaceful towards her but I have been much shorter in my answers. I have also left the room more when she is there and basically I have left her alone. This seemed to effect her the most on the weekends when I would leave and she was left to watch the kids by herself. When I would get home, I could tell she was worn out and tired. I could also tell she was bored most of the day sitting in the house.
I'm not sure either way has been effective and I know I haven't tried either for very long. I guess I need to do a 180, but I'm not sure which was is a 180 for me. Since she complained I was moody or grumpy in the evening when she got home should I be cheerful. She said she never thought I appreciated her job and what she did because I didn't ask enough questions. Of course when I would ask she wouldn't tell me much because she thought I would be bored. I guess what I am asking is should I try to have conversations about her job with her since I didn't do this in the past? I need to read up on the 180's again I think to fully understand them.
Sorry, one more post.
I've noticed lately she has been leaving her phone around more. She used to carry it close to her at all times. But now she will put it on the charger in another room and leave it there. She has changed the pass code for it, so maybe she feels comfortable. What she doesn't know is that I know the pass code, but have never accessed the phone. I really have no desire to read any messages from the OM if they are on there.
What I am wondering though is she trying to get caught. Earlier I posted that I thought she changed the phone password a couple of weeks ago so I couldn't view the records, but just last night I discovered the old password worked again. Now she leaves her phone lying around so I could look at it if I knew the pass code. It just seems strange and almost like she wants to get caught. This is probably just my tired mind making up crazy thoughts right now but it does make me wonder.
Sorry for so much posting. I like to post because it makes me feel better typing out my thoughts and sharing. I don't expect responses to all my posts, but it just makes me feel better to get my thoughts down.
Hey Eagle11,
J3B suggested I check out your thread. I can say if your wife is in MLC, it's not as bad as can be, but I know you're really hurting brother. She doesn't sound as unhinged as some of the other stuff I've heard here. If she's the career-oriented type who works long hours, there's a big instinct in her to keep everything self-contained and in check. If she's seeking any kind of therapy, that's a start. Most people in MLC do not bother.
Get out of the house, even in the daytime. Being a stay-at-home parent can drive anybody crazy, even a homebody. Your sitch just makes it worse. Get something going in the daytime with S2 that takes you elsewhere. Your home is Ground Zero for your marriage problem. Even with her away in the daytime, your environment reminds you of what's going on. Think of something that S2 can enjoy - just walking in the park / beach / playground is enough.
Many nights my W goes jogging for 2 hours. Even with her out of the house, I still take my boys to the park for an hour, the change of scenery helps.
For a 180? If she's gone so much, try and think of something to create the vibe there in favor of your boys. Put up a tent in the dining room or backyard and camp there for one night. Visit Dad blogs to see what kind of DIY adventure projects you can do around the house (they're always cheap). Cater to your boys. It takes a strong moment to stop thinking about her and focus on your boys, but once you do - you'll be on a roll.
Buying a house 2 months before she does a BD doesn't make sense. However, many things in MLC don't make sense. She might have seen the house as an insurance that you'll stay put.
In my W I have also seen the changes in body language and tone of voice your W shows as well. It's something that goes beyond "she must be tired / mad". During my W's angry rants, she will start to talk in this scratchy hushed tone, like she has a sore throat. Then, she'll start to sway her head side to side - very slowly. It's weird. Read other threads, you'll come across many instances of LBS's who encounter 'shark eyes'. You may have seen it in your W already.
Leaving the phone out may indeed be a test. She may want to you to find texts you don't want to see, and initiate something she wants to have but doesn't want to start herself (separation, divorce, or just a big nasty fight).
Maybe I didn't go over your threads thoroughly, but how ENGAGED is W with your boys? She may be friendly, but does she interact with them on their level?
I see the toughest part about your sitch is that she's away so often, what little contact you have with her doesn't give you much input one way or the other as to where she is. I would definitely follow Sandi2's 37 rules.
I am detaching by basically thinking of myself as a single dad, which I think will work even better for you. Take them along for everything you can. It's a chore to do. Everywhere you go - diapers, baby wipes, juice boxes, you know the drill! Just pace yourself and know you have all day to do it. All you really need to do right now is spend time with your boys and love them.
I don't know if you need to hear this, but I need to be reminded constantly, so I'm telling you out of courtesy - you are NOT crazy, and none of this is your fault. You are just in a crazy situation. This is the battle you did not choose. Hang in there.
Brubeck, thanks for the advice. I got a chance to read over your posts a little last night and I feel for you. As bad I feel I am having it right now, doesn't seem to compare to you. Maybe my W is just warming up and it will get worse the longer this goes, but I hope not.
Thanks for the advice on the 180. That's what I am really trying to figure out here. I guess I am just really trying to figure out if this is a WW or MLC. I read a little bit about it last night and it looks like you take some different approaches depending on what she is. That is my big hurdle right now trying to figure that out.
You asked how much my wife is engaged with the boys. My W loves the boys but working so much makes her not really there physically or mentally for the day to day things. She is ready for when a crisis happens (she turns into Supermom) but the simple act of cooking dinner or reading a bedtime story she just doesn't do anymore. She basically comes home from work, gets a snack to eat (she basically doesn't eat anymore and has lost over 20 lbs in a month), then she will sit on the couch and watch tv or do work on her computer. After an hour or so she goes to bed. I can't remember the last time she actually played with either of them.
Once again thanks for the advice and I am going to read more of your thread and get up to date on you situation. Thanks for the support.
Today is my W 36 birthday. I didn't tell her happy birthday this morning. My kids don't know its her birthday so nobody said anything. I didn't get her anything but i got her something from the kids so I will have them give it to her tonight. I'm not really sure how I should act about her birthday. I guess I will wish her a happy birthday tonight.
Unfortunately, I did look at the cell phone account this morning and saw her and the OM were texting a lot. She was sitting on the couch with our S6 and I was in the kitchen (our living room and kitchen are connected). Once I realized she was texting him I would start to walk up behind her and my son to say something to him. She would feel my prescence and quickly put her phone down. This went on for about 30 minutes and I was having fun with it. I never let on that I knew she was texting the OM, but I would just come up behind them every so often and she would have to scramble to put the phone down. I was wondering what she thought. Did the danger excite her? Was she scared of being caught? Was she annoyed with me? I guess I will never know, but I actually thought it was funny.
I went to my first therapist appointment and really enjoyed it. The therapist seemed really engaged and concerned, which I felt was good. I told her my story and she gave comments similar to ones I have received here. I made another appointment for next Friday morning where she said we will start working on me.
Once I realized she was texting him I would start to walk up behind her and my son to say something to him. She would feel my prescence and quickly put her phone down. This went on for about 30 minutes and I was having fun with it. I never let on that I knew she was texting the OM, but I would just come up behind them every so often and she would have to scramble to put the phone down. I was wondering what she thought. Did the danger excite her? Was she scared of being caught? Was she annoyed with me? I guess I will never know, but I actually thought it was funny.
Eagle11 - just a word of caution on these "games". I too would do things that I knew would cause W some discomfort having a private lol to myself at the time - occasionally shared here too. The problem that I have is that I then get wrapped up in checking to see "if" she reacted in the way I expected her to and then think of other things I could do to provoke a reaction.
It's a dangerous path, not so much for her but for you because it makes it harder for you to detach and it gives you the illusion that you can control your W's actions when the reality is far from there.
Unfortunately, I did look at the cell phone account this morning and saw her and the OM were texting a lot.
Eagle,
I know this is still new to you and your emotions are raw but ^^^ this is not healthy for you. As a former super snooper I can understand the need to know but all it did for me was keep me angry and engaged with my XW. Once I realized I had no control over it and stopped I was able to detach more and more from her. I know it's hard but you have to try. Hang in there.
Hi Eagle,
I was reading through your thead and thought I'd post a quick reply. I noticed you were wondering about your w's age. I have no doubt my w is in mlc and she turned 35 last week, this all seems to have started a year ago when a good friend of hers was killed in an accident although I think her grandpa's death 5 years before also played into it.
I'm basically reiterating what others have said but try to stop snooping, you know it's happening and have chosen to stand (kudos because it takes a strong person who knows something is not right with your spouse) so you're only tourturing yourself by doing so. I know easier said than done, it's so painful. As others told me, he is not the prize, only a bandaid. From what I've read and seen, they get an actual high from the A and the secrecy, etc adds to this. It's a good feeling in the midst of depression. One thing I read that stuck with me is that As typically run on rocket fuel, hot and fast, then burn out. By snooping, etc you are giving her more fuel, maybe even an it's us against them/the world mentality with OM, and from my experience she will just start hiding it better. My w would do the phone thing too, it's insulting but shows just how far out of whack they are, just like a teenager hiding something from their parents.
remember you are the only one you can control, work on yourself and if she has legitimate complaints fix those but don't tell her, show her. I know it's tough when you feel so many cycling emotions (I know, I was an absolute wreck) but try to be consistent and respond instead of reacting. If your all over the place it gives her further justification in her mind it's you and not her. I try to think to myself, no one can make me feel a way I don't want to. I definitely am not living this by any means but I try and when I can change my mood, feelings, etc to not let something affect me it is a powerful feeling.
Hope this helps.
AndrewP, thanks for the advice. Toying with her was something I had never done until today and honestly it felt good but I know I can't keep doing it. Plus I don't want her to realize what I was doing and if I keep doing it she is bound to figure it out.
Betterman77, no worries on me spying on her anymore using cell phone records. I guess this morning she switched to Facebook messenger for her EA. I actually found out because my sister (who doesn't know anything is going on) made a comment that the w had signed up for messenger today. Apparently they send you a notification when one of your friends signs up. I then looked at the cell phone records this afternoon and they haven't had a text since 8:30 this morning. I know they didn't break up so I guess they have moved onto Facebook messenger. I don't have her password so I guess my spying on her that way are over.
I also though I would add this in case you read through my thread. At one point I told my w to leave. She didn't, she actually informed me I couldn't kick her out (she researched). I was trying to show her I would not stand for an A. In hindsight I was trying to control something I couldn't. I should've retread doormat tactics. She hasn't forgotten about it, she has brought it up and now I can see I created another hurdle if she ever decides to reconcile.
Kyh, I haven't read your thread but I am going to check it out tonight.
She has switched to facebook messenger for her contact with OM now and that's probably a good thing for me. I don't have her password for that and I can't snoop. I know snooping wasn't doing me any good but it was almost like a drug for me. I was addicted to see if she was texting the OM. Like this morning when I saw her texting over and over and still had to check to see if it was the OM she was texting. I've been with her 12 years and I've never seen her text so much, so I knew it was him. I checked our previous 2 phone bills and she average about 1200 texts a month total and she texts the OM 2600 times in 1 month. It's just crazy. Sometimes I think this is all some movie or a bad dream. I've actually woke up a couple of times and looked over to her side of the bed but of course she wasn't there.
I saw a therapist today for the first time and she explained the affair the same way you have. It's like a drug to her and she can't get enough right now. At some point reality will kick in and she will wake up, but you just don't know when that will be. I see your point on the snooping. If she realized what I was doing today with my snooping it might actually make her want to do it more. Sometimes I feel like my 36 year old W is 16. It feels like I'm back in high school.
It feels like overnight she just decided to rewrite our history and fall out of love with me. I don't understand how this is possible. I honestly don't know her anymore. If I were to describe her now I would say she is a liar, cheat and doesn't respect anyone. The crazy thing is that a month ago I would have described her as loving, compassionate, driven, etc. How can someone change so much in a month.
Finally, I didn't tell my wife to leave but I did ask her to leave so she could find herself. She actually agreed but then changed her mind. I still think if she would leave it would be better for our sitch, but I know that is not going to happen. I am not going to push her on it though. My problem is I feel I have been a doormat in our relationship. I feel she has been the one in control and i go along with her. I was thinking about the major decisions in our life and if we had opposite views we always went her way. I was almost going to get tough with her on this and change my ways when I thought she was a WW, but now that I think she is MLC I guess I need to remain more a doormat. I guess I feel being a doormat she won't realize how much I am trying to improve myself.
Eagle,
The OM is like a drug to her and the addiction will be hard to break, but if there is a will, there is a way and she will need to decide to end the affair. Then again the OM may end it if he gets tired of her.
Now, I do want to point out that it's not a good thing to play games w/the MLCer. They don't forget one thing that we say or do and they will remind you of it over and over again. This not the game called "Life". This is a real situation that is based on emotions and her decisions are all based on emotions. Snooping only gets you more frustrated about the situation and eventually, if you are not careful, you will tell on yourself. So nip that in the bud as well.
As for being a doormat...no, you don't play the doormat. You are a human being that has a lot to offer the world. Go out there and improve yourself any way that you can. Don't worry about what she's thinking of your right now. Why? Because she's looking through a pair of black glasses and can't see two feet in front of her. Don't tell her what you are doing to improve yourself...show her! Actions speak louder than words. Again, actions speak louder than words.
Stay the course, continue moving forward and live your life to the fullest for YOU!
job,
I am done snooping. It's hard and I can't guarantee I won't slip up but I am going to try my best to stop. Like I said earlier, the fact that she apparently will be using facebook to communicate with him will be a good thing for me. I know that and I just need to trust myself.
I really need to read up more on an MLCer. I have read some of the articles and threads but I need to take the time to go through everything before I do anything stupid. I also need to read other people's threads more to get there experiences. I am going to work on that.
Actions speak louder than words! Thanks for telling me that. I need to keep reminding myself.
Thanks
Eagle,
Get a rubber band and place it on your wrist. Each and every time you have a desire to snoop, snap that band. Your focus will be on the sting. Also, set up a change jar and again, if you get the urge to snoop, drop some coins in the charge. I bet you will have it filled up in no time. We all go through a period of wanting to snoop...it's very normal, but there comes a time when you just have to back off and leave them to it. They are like teenagers and what do teens do? They constantly text, email or FB each other all of the time. Right now you are the authority figure (dad) and she's going to keep on doing it and who knows, she could be testing you to see if you will snoop or say something to her about it...but I would remain silent.
If you aren't sure about doing something, come here to post. Someone is always around. MGoBlue once said "when in doubt, do nothing". That is a choice and one that I have used many times and it's saved me from doing something really stupid.
The more you read, the more you'll begin to understand that what they are dealing w/and also how you can take care of yourself.
Kyh, I haven't read your thread but I am going to check it out tonight.
Idk if there's anything great in it, there are probably better threads to read but the more people's posts you read the better. I saw a lot of similarities while reading yours (even more so in your last post) so I thought I'd share the bit about telling her to leave in case it was on your mind.
Well tonight was not the best. My W didn't get home until 9:00pm because she went to get a tattoo. I was upset because she didn't text me to let me know and I had my S6 asking me from 6:30 on what time his mom was going to be home. I couldn't give him an answer. It was so frustrating. I don't really care and I don't expect her to tell me when she is going to be late, but I would like her to tell me for the kids.
Before she got home I broke down and cried for the first time in probably a week. The emotions finally hit me and I was a mess. It was the most depressed I have been probably since this all started. It just feels like this is a losing battle. I just miss my best friend. It's so hard to spend everyday with someone for over 12 years and then she just chooses to no longer be with you over night. There wasn't even a gradual decline, it was basically over a 3 or 4 day period she decided to destroy everything we had. I know you all have went through it too and I know a lot of you have had it worse than me, but it just an awful feeling.
Then when she gets home she showed me the tattoo and it was the infinity symbol with the boys name in it. The crazy thing was that I got her a necklace from the boys that is nearly identical for her birthday. I bought the necklace about a month ago and they gave it to her tonight. Its so strange that she chose this as her first tattoo without knowing about the necklace. Another thing for those who read my original post. When she had an EA in the winter of 2008/2009 she came home after seeing the guy with a nose ring. She had never mentioned wanting a nose ring before just like she has never mentioned she wanted a tattoo. I always hated that nose ring because she kept it for a couple years after we got back together and it always reminded me of the EA.
I wanted to tell her that it was great she got a tattoo with her kids name on it but it would have been better if she actually showed them how much she loved them by being present. Anybody can get a tattoo, but it takes effort to be a good parent. Don't worry I kept my mouth shut.
Then the night gets weirder. She tells me that my sister posted something on facebook about my W (without actually calling her out by name) and it was not very nice. My W was not mad at me but she just wanted me to know. I have never told my sister anything and I told my mom not to say anything but I bet my mom did. This makes me upset. This is another obstacle in my way. I know my family means well, but I don't need them getting in the way. I think my W could use this as another excuse to get a D. She knows I had nothing to do with it but she will say something like she could never face my family anymore.
The night got even more weird. My W is talking to me about my sister and she goes to take a shower and gets undressed in front of me. She is standing there naked like its perfectly normal but we are having a conversation. She hops in the shower and proceeds to tell me about her trip last week. She of course left out the details about the OM and I didn't bring them up. I really think something happened last week with the OM. I just have a gut feeling. When she was telling me her story she told a couple of details that I know were lies or didn't add up. She also told me they had been drinking that night at dinner. She said she had a margarita and I know if she drinks its bad news. Maybe she didn't do anything but just the way she told the story of her trip didn't add up to me. She actually volunteered the story to me and I didn't ask her about it. The whole situation was bizarre. She then got out of the shower and had me hand her a towel. There was absolutely no sexual vibes between us and she acted as if it was perfectly normal for her to stand there naked with me in the room. I know this was bad and I can't let this happen again. I was not expecting it, I honestly thought she would shut the door on me or something but she just got undressed without a care in the world.
I think I am ready for bed. I feel sorry for my W, but I also have a hate towards her tonight. I just feel the lying has become so natural and so easy for her. The A keeps escalating so quickly and I know she will be back to the OM office in 2 weeks. My therapist asked me today how I would feel if I found out the EA became a PA, but I couldn't give her an answer. I honestly don't know how I would feel or react.
I broke down and cried for the first time in probably a week. The emotions finally hit me and I was a mess. It was the most depressed I have been probably since this all started. It just feels like this is a losing battle.
That's normal and healthy. I was such a wreck for the first 3 months, so slammed into the wall by this, that I would start tearing up standing in line at a grocery store - and prior to my W's MLC, I was NOT the crying type. It may not feel good to cry at the moment, but it's definitely cathartic. It's painful, but it's necessary. Get it out of your system. Your soul is cut and crying is the disinfectant before the bandage is applied.
I have never told my sister anything and I told my mom not to say anything but I bet my mom did. This makes me upset. This is another obstacle in my way. I know my family means well, but I don't need them getting in the way. I think my W could use this as another excuse to get a D. She knows I had nothing to do with it but she will say something like she could never face my family anymore.
This is exactly why I haven't told my mother. You are wise to keep your mouth shut about this.
The night got even more weird. My W is talking to me about my sister and she goes to take a shower and gets undressed in front of me. She is standing there naked like its perfectly normal but we are having a conversation. She hops in the shower and proceeds to tell me about her trip last week.... she then got out of the shower and had me hand her a towel. There was absolutely no sexual vibes between us and she acted as if it was perfectly normal for her to stand there naked with me in the room. I know this was bad and I can't let this happen again.
I think I heard the term from Sandi2. It's called Temperature Checking. An MLCer or a WAS will do something like that to gauge your interest, to see if you notice or pay attention. I am trying to mind read here, but I am betting your W is just looking for your eyes to travel below her neck for just a second. My W would temperature check me every now and again, she's stopped since moving out of the MBR. You did the right thing by playing it straight. She didn't want you to make it sexual. She may try it again, and she will corner you with it when you don't expect it.
I feel sorry for my W, but I also have a hate towards her tonight. I just feel the lying has become so natural and so easy for her.
You and me both. I feel pity and disgust for my W at once. I get angry and sad in the same breath. Some mornings feel like the end of the world and by the afternoon I'm thinking 'Hey, I'll be fine'.
As for the lying, one of the reasons I post is to ask if this kind of rampant lying is normal. My W doesn't just lie to me, she lies about me to others and lies to others about everything. Every veteran says it's part & parcel, lying is like breathing to them. After all, they're lying to themselves - so lying to everyone else is easy.
We're human and we're supposed to be f#&ked up for a while. It takes time to find one's footing in this. I'm still working on it myself.
Brubeck,
I have read through your thread and we do have a lot of similarities. My heart goes out to you and your family.
I don't know what my W was trying to do by being naked in front of me. I know it wasn't sexual, but even if she would have invited me into the shower there is no way I was going in there. At that moment I did not find her attractive at all. That might have been the first time in my life that I was standing in front of a naked attractive woman and had absolutely no desire for her.
The lying thing is driving me crazy. She is doing it with such ease now. Although like I stated in my previous post I could tell some things didn't add up with her story. I didn't call her out on them, but it just didn't make sense. She had basically told a similar story about her trip to a friend who was over on Saturday and I heard the story. Last night, she told me somewhat the same story but key details were different. I don't know what she has told others, but I know she is rewriting our history. If she told them the truth that our marriage had gotten a little stale and that she was tired of some of my issues but I was trying to work on them it would not be a good enough story to justify a D. I'm sure she has told all kinds of lies about me or exaggerated the truth to make all this justified. Also, I am sure she hasn't told anybody about the A. That would not make her look good, and she has to make sure I'm the reason our marriage is in shambles and not her.
Thanks for the kind words, Eagle.
I don't know what my W was trying to do by being naked in front of me. I know it wasn't sexual, but even if she would have invited me into the shower there is no way I was going in there.
Same here. My W came home drunk about a month ago and tried to entice me - she wanted me to pursue her and only because she was drunk. There was no way I would entertain the idea, not with her still having an A (she doesn't know I know).
At that moment I did not find her attractive at all. That might have been the first time in my life that I was standing in front of a naked attractive woman and had absolutely no desire for her.
Same here. For my W, the crazy exercise and starving herself has paid off, she's lost a lot of weight and looks great - but I have no urge to touch her whatsoever.
The lying thing is driving me crazy. She is doing it with such ease now... I could tell some things didn't add up with her story. I didn't call her out on them, but it just didn't make sense. She had basically told a similar story about her trip to a friend who was over on Saturday and I heard the story. Last night, she told me somewhat the same story but key details were different. I don't know what she has told others, but I know she is rewriting our history.
I notice the same things with my W. The very wise job replied to one of my posts and said that if your W's friends have any sense they will notice the gaps as well. Hopefully, someone else will point this out to her. My W just got a job, first one in 11 years. In the span of two days the start date has changed 3 times. I think she's so anxious about this that she can't keep track of it.
Also...
I was thinking about your reply that your W's only interest in the boys is going into Supermom mode when something really bad happens. I asked because my W has withdrawn from my sons big time. She is only affectionate by way of buying them a lot of sweets and being super happy when she's about to leave or when she's coming home. That's it. She ignores them most of the day save for dressing and feeding them.
I think a MLC Mother does
something to fool themselves that they still care about their kids, even though the other parent may be doing most of the day to day work. For your W, the 'Supermom' moments she gets are such a thing - she's telling herself she's still an active parent. This also makes sense if she's a business / management type at her job because you have to deal with obstacles and setbacks all day long, so responding to emergencies becomes second nature.
Brubeck,
There really are a lot of similarities between our stories. My wife has lost a ton of weight too. She was never fat, but very average weight for a woman in her mid 30's who has had two kids. She has lost so much weight this month, that she doesn't even really look like the same person. She is very attractive, but I always found her attractive no matter how much she weighed. I of course told her this a couple of weeks ago and she said I should have told her that more often. What she doesn't seem to remember is that I told her how beautiful she was all the time, but she would often dismiss it because she didn't find herself attractive. I think she has depression and I know she has low self esteem. I'm guessing that is part of the attraction to the OM, the new guy telling her how good she looks.
I was thinking about your reply that your W's only interest in the boys is going into Supermom mode when something really bad happens. I asked because my W has withdrawn from my sons big time. She is only affectionate by way of buying them a lot of sweets and being super happy when she's about to leave or when she's coming home. That's it. She ignores them most of the day save for dressing and feeding them.
I think a MLC Mother does something to fool themselves that they still care about their kids, even though the other parent may be doing most of the day to day work. For your W, the 'Supermom' moments she gets are such a thing - she's telling herself she's still an active parent. This also makes sense if she's a business / management type at her job because you have to deal with obstacles and setbacks all day long, so responding to emergencies becomes second nature.
I think my W thinks she is a good mother but she is never there. Last night she goes out after work to get a tattoo with our boys names and this somehow shows her love for them. Meanwhile, my S6 is at home asking me where mom is because he misses her. It was her birthday yesterday and although we were not going to throw a party the boys did have a gift for her. She doesn't call or text and then comes in the door at almost 9:00. My kids were so excited to see her. They are too young to understand, but I feel if she keeps this behavior they will withdraw and resent her as they get older and start to understand.
Of course when she got home she had to send pics of her new tattoo to all her family and friends. She had to show how much love she has for her boys by putting there names on her body. Meanwhile, I was the one who made them dinner, I was the one who made sure they had their baths and I was the one who got them ready for bed. I feel she has always put work first, but I think she has now moved the boys farther down on the priority list and she thinks by getting a tattoo or taking them to get a toy on the weekend makes it all good. Just like when there is a crisis, she makes sure she is the one who handles it and not me. When our son had to go to the ER last weekend she made sure she was the one to take him. She told me to stay with our S2 at home. I think your right about in your description of how she treats her kids almost like her work.
I am worried about our finances. For those who have read my original post I am a stay at home dad and my wife has a good paying job. We bought a house a couple of months ago and used a lot of our savings for a down payment. We were not worried at the time because she has a bonus coming in September that would get most of that down payment back.
Here is my problem. This past month I have been watching what I spend. I haven't really spent anything on myself (less that $50). Most of my expenses have been for the house and kids. My W has spent a bunch of money at Victoria's Secret (not sure how much), she got her hair done (probably around $250) and she has got a tattoo (no idea how much but probably not cheap). These are expenses that I know of but there are probably others. She is basically spending like she always does. We also had a major car expense at the beginning of the month (over $1000). I'm wondering if I need to say something to her? Well, I know something needs to be done but I don't know what. If we end up getting a D, then we need all the money we can get.
I'm thinking I might need to talk to a lawyer about all of this. She has always been a free spender (one of our issues), and I have always complained to her about it. I complained less as she kept getting raises and promotions, but I am worried that she might make us go broke. I could get joint accounts but I currently don't have any income and as long as she wants to keep the living arrangements and responsibilities the same then I won't be able to get a job. I'm not really sure what to do, but I'm thinking of talking to a lawyer.
Eagle,
Curious, with no income how does a lawyer fit in?
Eagle,
Curious, with no income how does a lawyer fit in?
I have the joint account that we share as long as she doesn't drain it. I have some money saved that she doesn't know about. My parents actually have it and it would be enough to get me started.
If we end up going through a D, I have already decided that the kids will need to go to daycare (which she does not want) and I will get a job. Then once I have a job, the kids and I will move out.
Eagle,
Curious, with no income how does a lawyer fit in?
I have the joint account that we share as long as she doesn't drain it. I have some money saved that she doesn't know about. My parents actually have it and it would be enough to get me started.
If we end up going through a D, I have already decided that the kids will need to go to daycare (which she does not want) and I will get a job. Then once I have a job, the kids and I will move out.
I know she fears paying me alimony/child support. I think that is one of the reasons she has come up with her wacky idea of me continuing to live with her and raise the kids even after a divorce.
I think you don't know what she thinks.
Get off that particular ride.
I think you don't know what she thinks.
Get off that particular ride.
Thats true. Thanks for the reminder.
I need to rant!
W gets home at 8:30 tonight. She went to gym after work and didn't let us know. As I said before I don't care, but my sons ask about their mom and I can't tell them when she will be home. I am getting so frustrated because she is getting home so late and I would like to do something for myself some night. I would just like to get out of the house for an hour or so and relax, but when she gets home so late it's pointless. I need to get out this weekend and do something. She asked me if I was doing anything this weekend and I told I had some things I wanted to do (I didn't tell her what). I asked her if she had plans and she said no. So I have to get out of the house or I will be stuck with her all weekend.
More ranting...She sets on the couch and texted the OM after she gets home with our kids sitting right next to her. This drove me crazy. So much disrespect. All of us were in the room but she doesn't care. I saw her smiling as she was texting him and that made me sick too. I know I've read that she is supposed to be confused or depressed but she sure looks happy to me. If she keeps her current attitude I don't see this ever ending. One lighter moment did occur. My S6 took the phone from my W because he wanted to see something on one of her apps. When I saw this I went over and asked him what he was looking at. I could sense the anxiety in my W with my son holding her phone. She tried to get it back a couple of times and I was just waiting for a text from the OM to pop up but it didn't happen.
Final rant. I mentioned earlier that my mother told my sister what was happening and my sister posted a nasty remark on facebook about my W (without actually naming names). I texted my mom today to ask why she told my sister and then she wrote a nasty text back to me about how I deserve my W and all of this other stuff. My mom called me selfish and self centered. It was a nasty text. I tried to call my mom later, but she didn't answer her phone. Then when my W got home she told me my sister and mom blocked her on facebook and my sister wrote another nasty text about my W. My W knows I had nothing to do with this and I apologized but I don't need this stress in my life now too. I never should have told my mom. I know better, but I was looking for someone to talk too after I found out what was going on and in a moment of weakness I called her. I made the comment to my W that she probably wouldn't see my mom or Sister for a long time anyway and she commented back that she would probably never see them again because we would be divorced.
Sorry for the rant, but I didn't have anybody to tell this too and it feels good typing this up before bed. Helps me release some tension.
Ok, I might have screwed up but I just told my W everything I know. I did it calmly and I told her I love her and I just wanted her to get better. I told her I wasn't going to try to stop her affair but I loved her and she needs help.
I think what made me say something was that I asked about her work bonus and she said all I care about is money. She then said the money should be all hers anyway since all I do is raise the kids. She also criticized me in other ways too. I told her I was going to bed but then I went back into her room and told her what I knew. She didn't say anything, but she was stunned. She asked how I knew and I told her cell phone records. I guess we will see how she takes this. I have a bad feeling she is going to be angry and may go for the divorce. I guess we will find out. I actually feel better though. I couldn't hold it in any longer. I truly hope she will get help and if that means we are not together then so be it.
Also, most of my talk with her was about the kids. I told her they need her and she hasn't been around for them. I told her if she doesn't get help then her relationship with them could be ruined.
I don't think I will bring it up anymore though. I think I will actually try to avoid her for awhile. Although that may be hard living in the same house.
Wow!
I read your 7:39 PM post in the park where I was with my kids. I was thinking of a reply on the walk home. Got the kiddos into pajamas and then sat down to reply. Now this! Let us know what happens.
You just stirred the pot. I wonder if she'll go dark for a couple of days before responding. Best of luck, brother.
Brubeck,
Thanks. I think I finally just had enough of texting with the kids around. I just can't deal with that. I can deal with her texting while she is away or even the other stuff, but not texting next to my kids. It was probably seeing her smile tonight while she was texting with my boy sitting next to her that pushed me over the edge.
This is scary though because she is so impulsive. I think I am going to go no contact the best I can for awhile. We have been getting along fine for the last few weeks but I have a feeling that is about to change.
I just wanted her to get better. I told her I wasn't going to try to stop her affair but I loved her and she needs help.
Telling a crazy person they are crazy doesn't usually go over well. I'm not going to hit you with a 2x4 for you talking to her.
Saying, I hope you get better, or I hope you get help...
In her mind you are the problem...not anything she is doing or going through.
Saying stuff like this is like saying I love you to them.
Did you read the book? Do you know why you don't say I love you anymore to them?
And since you still are...please stop.
You don't say I love you, because when you do, it reminds them that they don't love you.
The kids and texts...
Only you knew she was texting OM, not the kids. Disrespectful?
Sort of, but in this case, you let yourself get anger on behalf of you kids.They had no idea so really there ignorance protected them from being disrespected.
It is easy to use your children as a means to become angry with them. To get upset and feed that fire and rage.
Use your anger as a shield, NOT a sword.
Use it to fuel you detachment, burn it when you work out and can't do another rep. You can work out in your house, sit ups push ups. Use it to steel yourself when you feel weak and have to snoop.
You will find out the outcome of this soon, learn from it.
And stop trying to imagine what she will do, your monsters are bigger in your head.
Eagle,
I'm so sorry to come here and read that you blew your stack and told her everything. Please, please re-read Jack's posting to you. You don't tell them they need help because they think they don't have a problem...they think it's you. You don't say I love you to them because this makes them feel guilty for what they are doing and the more you say I love you, the more determined they are to pull away.
Listen, I do understand about the phone and texting. You can't control what she does. Now, she's going to be that much more determined to do it. She's acting like a teenager and what do teenagers do? For a bit, they will straighten up and go right back to doing what they want. She's rebelling and you are coming across as her father. You don't want that. Unless the behavior is totally out of control, learn to ignore it. Find something to do or come here to vent...but don't react to her antics. Read the detachment thread and you'll see that you hit one of the main pointers...reacting to her behavior.
Find ways to channel your anger. Use it to weed the garden, clean the house or take on a project that will require your concentration and strength...but don't spew at your wife for now unless she does something that will harm the children, etc.
Keep the focus on you and your children.
Jack_Three_Beans,
I understand where you are coming from. I know it was not smart. As I was talking to her I was thinking it might not be a good idea. I know she is not going to stop the A. I have read the book, but I had a moment of weakness last night. As I think back to what got me to say this to her I think it was not only the kids, but the fact that she was attacking me by rewriting our history. I should have just walked away and went to bed but I think I finally just had enough.
I didn't yell or cry or anything like that. I didn't beg her to get help or come back to me. I told her I thought she needed help because she was going ruin her life and her relationship with the kids. I know she probably hates me more now than before, but what can I do?
I will say it did feel good in a way because I have never really confronted her with anything and I don't like conflict. I would always walk away with presented with something like this in the past. I would be afraid of what she would say or the consequences, so in a way I may have screwed up my M more but I think I feel better about myself.
This morning she went to work early. I was awake but pretended to sleep when she left. I don't really know what to do from here. I know I am not going to push her and I am going to keep my distance. If she wants to talk I will talk but I will not initiate it. I need to read more about what to do though, because today begins a new chapter in this saga. I know her relationship with the OM will still be going and I guess the only thing that's really changed is that she knows I know that.
Eagle,
Unless she brings up the issue this evening, I would leave it alone. You've said what you needed to say and now you go on.
You are only human and it got to you yesterday. It's understandable and now you know that in the future to walk way and let it be. As for rewriting history...they all do it. Sure we get angry and want to correct them, but you have to remember that while depressed, they look at life through fuzzy lenses and what she sees is blah. You, on the other hand know differently and you are looking at life through clear, clean lenses. You know the difference and only you can determine what is Memorex and what is real....so, let the history rewriting in the corner.
Get a rubber band and place it on your wrist. Each and every time that you are tempted to say something, snap that band! I can guarantee you that when you do this, the sting will make you stop in your tracks.
Eagle, continue moving forward. Today is a new day. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and keep looking forward.
Jack_Three_Beans,
I understand where you are coming from. I know it was not smart. As I was talking to her I was thinking it might not be a good idea. I know she is not going to stop the A. I have read the book, but I had a moment of weakness last night. As I think back to what got me to say this to her I think it was not only the kids, but the fact that she was attacking me by rewriting our history. I should have just walked away and went to bed but I think I finally just had enough.
I didn't yell or cry or anything like that. I didn't beg her to get help or come back to me. I told her I thought she needed help because she was going ruin her life and her relationship with the kids. I know she probably hates me more now than before, but what can I do?
I will say it did feel good in a way because I have never really confronted her with anything and I don't like conflict. I would always walk away with presented with something like this in the past. I would be afraid of what she would say or the consequences, so in a way I may have screwed up my M more but I think I feel better about myself.
This morning she went to work early. I was awake but pretended to sleep when she left. I don't really know what to do from here. I know I am not going to push her and I am going to keep my distance. If she wants to talk I will talk but I will not initiate it. I need to read more about what to do though, because today begins a new chapter in this saga. I know her relationship with the OM will still be going and I guess the only thing that's really changed is that she knows I know that.
Step back from it, let it fester inside of her...
Now is the time, more than ever, to walk the walk...
Don't feel that you HAVE to do anything...other than to live YOUR changes...
You gave her back her luggage to carry around...
Let HER carry it ....
Job and Mach1,
I appreciate the comments and advice. I may be wrong but I think by telling her I feel last night I have a better idea of what direction I need to go. Before I wasn't sure if I should walk away and detach because one of her big complaints about me was that I didn't want to be around her or I didn't appreciate her enough. So I have been torn if detaching from her was the best approach because I felt that I would be doing the same thing as I always did. I have been moving back and forth between detaching and being her friend and acting normal. Now I think she knows my position and she knows how I feel so I think it will be easier for me to leave her be and detach. I guess I'm hoping she understands my position better now and I can go on with my life and working to improve without her feeling I'm neglecting her.
I am going to read DR again starting today. I feel like I am starting all over, but maybe I will have a better understanding of the direction I need to go.
Job and Mach1,
I appreciate the comments and advice. I may be wrong but I think by telling her I feel last night I have a better idea of what direction I need to go. Before I wasn't sure if I should walk away and detach because one of her big complaints about me was that I didn't want to be around her or I didn't appreciate her enough. So I have been torn if detaching from her was the best approach because I felt that I would be doing the same thing as I always did. I have been moving back and forth between detaching and being her friend and acting normal. Now I think she knows my position and she knows how I feel so I think it will be easier for me to leave her be and detach. I guess I'm hoping she understands my position better now and I can go on with my life and working to improve without her feeling I'm neglecting her.
I am going to read DR again starting today. I feel like I am starting all over, but maybe I will have a better understanding of the direction I need to go.
Hey Eagle...
I think that you are trying to put too much pressure on yourself, AND her right now...
You are sitting back and allowing HER to make YOUR decisions...
You are giving her, way too much of your power in this chess match, that really isn't , or shouldn't be one.
She knows where you stand, and it's time for you to move FORWARD from this situation...
And when I say moving forward, I do not mean moving on...
Moving forward for you, means that you delve within yourself, take care of you and your issues, and you live your life according to you. You don't look in the rear-view mirror to see where she is..
Kids need you, Friends need you, Family needs you...
Most importantly.....???
YOU need you...
You cannot lead your life, from behind...
You need to ACT, not RE-act...
I'm going to quietly chime in for a second....
I see everyone mentioning "detachment" in their posts, and thread titles lately. It's definitely needs to be done, but I think many posters these days think "detachment" means stop living your WAS and forget about them.
It's not what it means, and I guess the action of detachment can be pretty confusing.
My view on detachment, and I am sure Mach can probably define it a little better than me.
But detachment to me is not having your actions and reactions being attached everything the WAS says or does. Or having your WAS's feeling dictate your own. it means stepping outside the situation, looking at yourself and what you need to do to be the best you.
My two cents, anyways.
Carry on......
Actually, exactly what Mach mentioned in his last post to you, which we may have cross posted, is exactly what detachment is.
Told you he could explain it better than I:)
Told you he could explain it better than I:)
Yeah, he's like the second wordiest guy I know.
Eagle11,
Your sitch is SO much like mine was it's almost scary.
Right along with Detachment is Boundaries. What you tried to do in confronting her was about Boundaries. What you need to work on is making the boundary about you not her. You can't stop her from texting the OM in front of you. What you can do (carefully) is to state your position(boundary) and what YOU will do if she violates it. But you have to be prepared to follow thru with the consequences of your boundary, whatever that might be:
"W, I feel _____ when you _____, and if you continue to _____, I will ______."
"W, I feel disrespected when you text OM in front of me, so if you continue to do so, I will leave the room. And take the boys if we are busy doing something."
See the difference? You are not telling her what to do. It's how YOU feel, and what YOU do.
Again, I agree with letting this one sit with her awhile. You caught her off guard with confronting her, which by the way, I agree with you doing.
Be prepared with her switching up her strategy now, and be ready for when she challenges you in a new way.
Lots of good material on here ( and elsewhere) about Boundaries. Let me see if I can dig up some threads.
My view on detachment, and I am sure Mach can probably define it a little better than me.
But detachment to me is not having your actions and reactions being attached everything the WAS says or does. Or having your WAS's feeling dictate your own. it means stepping outside the situation, looking at yourself and what you need to do to be the best you.
You defined it perfectly Ginger. : )
Lots of good material on here ( and elsewhere) about Boundaries. Let me see if I can dig up some threads.
Looking for this, Drew?
Boundaries Cheat Sheet
Yes, Wonka, thank you!!
I was specifically thinking of the Coach one and it's included in yours.
Hey Eagle,
I've been following your thread and am sorry you are in this situation with the rest of us. You are getting some great responses from some great mentors! I had the same questions as you about detaching when my H's complaints were that I didn't like him or want to spend time with him and that I didn't appreciate him (his feelings, not mine). How could backing off work when it seems I should be showing more love and attention than before? I've heard it said many, many times though, that "DB is counter intuitive".
I fought that consciously and subconsciously, but finally started to realize that it really was true. We just have to let them be alone with what is going on in their head. We are respecting their need to work on things alone, whether they realize that's what they are really asking for or not. In turn, we are being respectful of our own needs by working alone on ourselves rather than making us their problem.
Reading DB and DR is a great idea. As we hit different stages emotionally and mentally on this journey, different parts of those books will have more meaning and more relevance than at other times. Or maybe you're more receptive to certain ideas as you move along. Either way, re-reading helps.
I don't have much else to say other than you've got good mentors to help you through. This board is a life saver.
Remember...actions speak louder than words. You don't have to tell your wife that you are moving forward or what you need to do for yourself...just do it because she's going to tune you out otherwise. Actions mean more to people than words.
Everyone,
I want to thank everyone of you for helping me out. I couldn't believe all the responses I have gotten in the last couple of hours. This board is helping me out so much. Because of this board I know I am not going through this alone. I wish I could thank everyone of you in person. You all mean so much too me.
I think I have been getting detachment wrong and getting it confused with no contact (there is so much to learn). I guess you all are saying that detachment is more about me taking care of myself and making my self happy? Getting myself to better place in life?
Drew and Wonka, thanks for the info on boundaries. I wish I would have understood this last night. Drew, I would have used your example with her, it's exactly what I was trying to say.
Job, I dug through one of my desk drawers and found a rubber band to remind me to keep my mouth shut! thanks for the advice.
I think I have been getting detachment wrong and getting it confused with no contact (there is so much to learn). I guess you all are saying that detachment is more about me taking care of myself and making my self happy? Getting myself to better place in life?
Detachment isn't a noun....it's a verb..
It isn't a decision that you make, it's a way of life, or a state of mind...
You live through this...really live.
All the things that you thought that you would never do, yet dreamed of doing...
Detachment, isn't words, as much as actions toward your future...
Doesn't mean that you don't love, don't care, don't want this to work out....
It means that you are okay, either way....
Here's a thread that I have on detachment. Read it and then re-read it again. It will help you.
Detachment
Eagle11,
J3B pointed me to your thread a few days ago. I just finished reading it. While our sitch's do not have much in common, our W's seem to.
I think this was the most awesome thing I read:
I wanted to tell her that it was great she got a tattoo with her kids name on it but it would have been better if she actually showed them how much she loved them by being present. Anybody can get a tattoo, but it takes effort to be a good parent.
Awesome because it sums up perfectly how the parent caring for the kids feels about the spouse ignoring their role. I was abandoned w/ my son for pretty much two months until we went S.
[quote=Eagle11] I have some money saved that she doesn't know about. My parents actually have it and it would be enough to get me started. [quote]
Seriously, do not say things like this here. Or anywhere. Ever again forever, just don't. This place is public. I hope why is immediately apparent by the moment you finish this sentence.
Your snooping stuff, I mean I did it. Don't feel too bad about it. It can become compulsive though which is the problem. As well, if you struggle w/ seeing & knowing things then it will be tough for you. Its really not healthy. I will say it did help me realize what a complete douchebag her OM was when I looked him up on FB. I mean I struggled to understand that, I really did. But mostly I was angry about her lies, not him. But the OM is usually way below your pay grade man - normal script.
Last, people put stuff about detaching above. Good luck. I read it all when I first got here...and you SHOULD do that. But for me, it just came on its own; as in I knew it existed but it wasn't something I could be taught, it was something which arrived thru process.
Glad you are in an IC my man....huge help for you. Huge GAL. Big step. Keep it up.
CT118,
I have been reading through your thread and wanted to offer you some advice but I feel I am just too new and wouldn't know what to say.
Thanks for the advice. I am already questioning some of the stuff I wrote in here because its public and my W is beginning to snoop. I really think my snooping may slow down or end soon. Now that I have told her what I know, I actually feel more at ease if that makes sense.
As I sit her tonight I am more confused than ever. Today was a good day, I felt at ease with my decision to tell my W last night that I know about the affair. I actually only looked once at phone records today and didn't even bother me that I saw the OM number listed on there. I know she isn't going to stop anytime soon. Later in the day I got a notification that she changed the password again. I actually laughed because I couldn't believe it took her until 4 pm to change it. Plus, I didn't really care anymore. I took my sons to a class they go to on Thursday nights and then got home around 6:30. My W was already there which is very unusual for her. Usually she get home between 7:30 - 8:30, but tonight she was at home sitting outside drinking a glass of wine and doing some work. I saw that she had ate some dinner (Also unusual for her right now) so she must have been home by 5:30 or so. I asked her to watch the kids so I could go to the gym and she said no problem. I went to the gym and had a good workout. I was feeling good when I got home.
This is when things got weird and confusing. I come in she is in a great mood for her lately. The kids are having fun and she is trying to talk to me. I am being polite but trying to mind my own business and cook me a quick dinner. Anyway she comes up to me and wants to tell me I was wrong about her affair and that there is nothing going on. She said she could explain everything. I asked her to explain the 150 texts a day from this guy and she says they are mostly work related. I tell her I don' t believe her and if they are work related why does she delete them off her phone. She said because she delete other conversations with other people too. I said that I knew her texts were sexual and she said how did I know that and I reminded her that I read some of the texts the night this all came out. She didn't seem to remember that very well but said she flirts with guys (she did says guys which means more than 1) because it makes her feel good when they flirt with her because she doesn't feel attractive. I told her if she is not having an affair then she should not erase anymore texts and let me see what they are saying to each other. She then said her and I have trust issues (This is obvious) and she can't trust me. I asked her what I have done and she said I locked myself in the office the other night and she heard me typing away on the computer (I was posting on this site). She said she tried to get on the computer tonight (must be why she got home so early) to check the history but I had changed the login password (I did change the password to protect myself and she never uses the computer because she always uses her work laptop). After we started getting into this conversation I told her I don't think we should talk about this now, especially with the kids still awake. She then follows me out to the kitchen and asks me what I want in our relationship. I told her the truth. I want her and I to someday get to a place where we can be happily married again. She then asks me what are we doing now and told her I guess we are separated but living together. She wants to know what that means, and I asked her does she want to date other people and she says no. At this point I don't know what is going on. We go sit back on the couch and she asks what my mom and sister think of all of this. She says they probably hate her and I told her she isn't really popular right now. She then starts talking about her and I starting over someday. I told her if we ever got to that point we need to go to marriage counseling because we didn't last time this happened and she agreed. We then sat on the couch and watch tv for a bit before I put our sons to bed.
Here is what I think is happening. First of all I know I can't trust her and I have read that she may do something like this and then turn on me the next day. Anyway, I think I scared her when I told her I know about the affair and that's why she went snooping. She admitted that she wanted to look at the history on the computer to me. She asked me why I got in the trunk of her car last night and thought I may have planted a tracking device (I was just getting a pair of shoes I left in the trunk out). She also started explaining why I would see the OM numbers on her phone log today and that it was work related.
I think she is paranoid and she knows she has been caught. I know she had an EA at least with the OM and now she just admitted she flirts with other guys too. She says she has never done anything physical with any of them, but she likes to flirt. I actually might believe her that its only EA because as far as I know she has only seen him one time since the EA started and he does live 3 hours away. With the amount of texts they sent each other each day it doesn't look like they are hooking up during the work week and she has been home every weekend since this started.
Anyway when we were done talking she probably thinks we are in a good spot, but now I am the paranoid one. I know I can't trust her right now and I know she is lying to me. There is no way they are texting each other 150 times a day and its mostly work. There is no way they texted each other after midnight and its about work. She actually might be telling the truth about not doing anything else but she has got some serious issues.
This is all starting to remind me of her EA she had in the winter of 2008 - 2009. I shared a bit of it in my original post but basically from late December - early February she had an EA with a guy she met in another state while visiting her family. She texted this guy constantly and we lived in separate bedrooms just like now. She actually flew back in February to seen him, but ended up only kissing him and left. She came home and we were not talking. She wanted to divorce me and I said no. She tried to serve me divorce papers but I wouldn't sign them. Then one day while I was at work and she was home she went snooping on the computer and saw that I had visited some dating web sites. I had visited them the day before as almost a joke because I thought I would be getting divorced soon and I wanted to see what was out there. I didn't contact anyone and it was strictly for fun (we had been separated about 3 months at this point). When I got home she came after me accusing me of having an affair and that she couldn't trust me. I calmed her down, told her the truth and shortly after began to heal our marriage. It was like the shock that I might date someone else shocked her back into wanting to be with me. The conversations we had then were so similar to the one tonight it is scary.
My W has so many issues. I just hope her therapist helps her, because she is so confused right now. She had to cancel her appointment this week but I really hope she continues to go because she needs help.
Tomorrow, I am going to go back to trying to detach. I told my S6 I would take him to the high school football game tomorrow night if the weather is good. That should be fun and I think I have some plans lined up for Sunday. I am just going to continue to work on myself.
I should add that she does admit texting with this guy but she was only flirting. She said she was not having an A. I told her she was having an EA and she said it's not the same thing. I told her in my mind it was still an affair.
Eagle11- I have been following along but not posted much as you are receiving amazing advice!
However, I have a live-in MLCer and I just want to tell you to be very, very careful in protecting your privacy regarding your posts. My h has snooped on me, too.
He has tried to check my FB and email account by guessing my password. Also, he once asked to borrow my phone to make a call because his was "low on battery." He took my phone with him in the other room and I know he combed through it. Be ready for such crafty requests.
My h is much more computer savvy than I am. I do all my posts on my iPhone (probably I will be blind in a year) but I worry he may have installed spying software on my laptop or Mac before I changed passwords. My understanding is sometimes these are nearly impossible to detect? I set everything to private browsing first on my phone.
And remember if you're downloading books those can by synched and viewed with other devices. Or, if you share a credit card she can see what books you are buying and learn your game plan.
As I sit her tonight I am more confused than ever. Today was a good day, I felt at ease with my decision to tell my W last night that I know about the affair. I actually only looked once at phone records today and didn't even bother me that I saw the OM number listed on there. I know she isn't going to stop anytime soon. Later in the day I got a notification that she changed the password again. I actually laughed because I couldn't believe it took her until 4 pm to change it. Plus, I didn't really care anymore. I took my sons to a class they go to on Thursday nights and then got home around 6:30. My W was already there which is very unusual for her. Usually she get home between 7:30 - 8:30, but tonight she was at home sitting outside drinking a glass of wine and doing some work. I saw that she had ate some dinner (Also unusual for her right now) so she must have been home by 5:30 or so. I asked her to watch the kids so I could go to the gym and she said no problem. I went to the gym and had a good workout. I was feeling good when I got home.
This is when things got weird and confusing. I come in she is in a great mood for her lately. The kids are having fun and she is trying to talk to me. I am being polite but trying to mind my own business and cook me a quick dinner. Anyway she comes up to me and wants to tell me I was wrong about her affair and that there is nothing going on. She said she could explain everything. I asked her to explain the 150 texts a day from this guy and she says they are mostly work related. I tell her I don' t believe her and if they are work related why does she delete them off her phone. She said because she delete other conversations with other people too. I said that I knew her texts were sexual and she said how did I know that and I reminded her that I read some of the texts the night this all came out. She didn't seem to remember that very well but said she flirts with guys (she did says guys which means more than 1) because it makes her feel good when they flirt with her because she doesn't feel attractive. I told her if she is not having an affair then she should not erase anymore texts and let me see what they are saying to each other. She then said her and I have trust issues (This is obvious) and she can't trust me. I asked her what I have done and she said I locked myself in the office the other night and she heard me typing away on the computer (I was posting on this site). She said she tried to get on the computer tonight (must be why she got home so early) to check the history but I had changed the login password (I did change the password to protect myself and she never uses the computer because she always uses her work laptop). After we started getting into this conversation I told her I don't think we should talk about this now, especially with the kids still awake. She then follows me out to the kitchen and asks me what I want in our relationship. I told her the truth. I want her and I to someday get to a place where we can be happily married again. She then asks me what are we doing now and told her I guess we are separated but living together. She wants to know what that means, and I asked her does she want to date other people and she says no. At this point I don't know what is going on. We go sit back on the couch and she asks what my mom and sister think of all of this. She says they probably hate her and I told her she isn't really popular right now. She then starts talking about her and I starting over someday. I told her if we ever got to that point we need to go to marriage counseling because we didn't last time this happened and she agreed. We then sat on the couch and watch tv for a bit before I put our sons to bed.
Here is what I think is happening. First of all I know I can't trust her and I have read that she may do something like this and then turn on me the next day. Anyway, I think I scared her when I told her I know about the affair and that's why she went snooping. She admitted that she wanted to look at the history on the computer to me. She asked me why I got in the trunk of her car last night and thought I may have planted a tracking device (I was just getting a pair of shoes I left in the trunk out). She also started explaining why I would see the OM numbers on her phone log today and that it was work related.
I think she is paranoid and she knows she has been caught. I know she had an EA at least with the OM and now she just admitted she flirts with other guys too. She says she has never done anything physical with any of them, but she likes to flirt. I actually might believe her that its only EA because as far as I know she has only seen him one time since the EA started and he does live 3 hours away. With the amount of texts they sent each other each day it doesn't look like they are hooking up during the work week and she has been home every weekend since this started.
Anyway when we were done talking she probably thinks we are in a good spot, but now I am the paranoid one. I know I can't trust her right now and I know she is lying to me. There is no way they are texting each other 150 times a day and its mostly work. There is no way they texted each other after midnight and its about work. She actually might be telling the truth about not doing anything else but she has got some serious issues.
This is pretty typical...
She IS going to be nice for a while.
This is playbook on many levels.
She wants to know HOW you know..
She wants to know WHAT you know..
She wants to know WHO you have been talking to..
She wants to know WHEN you knew...
And she will more than likely go on a search and destroy mission trying to turn this around on you...
She will try anything to make you believe that it is YOU that has the problem...
That is why I said to stay YOUR course, and be as silent as you can be...
She doesn't like carrying her own luggage...
She knows that being nice is her best chance to get information out of you..
First...
Listen to HaWho...they will try all kinds of things to see what you are doing...
Second...
Get a job. Even if it is part time. Many reasons for this. It will give you time away from the boys and out of the house, which you need.
It will give you your own money since she has apparantly had some nasty thoughts about HER money and how it is spent.
It is something you are going to have to do anyway if this goes down the toilet so why not start now? It will give you some control over YOUR life.
Third...don't get any crazy ideas about making it look like you are dating, going to date because it worked in the past to get her to come back. It might. If it does, you will be right back here in a few years...
I am willing to be there was a "false start" on this MLC at the time of her first EA. You don't want to keep repeating that.
Keep posting.
Stop snooping.
Focus on you and the boys.
Eagle11,
I was also a stay at home dad and I had the luck to be able to starting a side business that is saving my butt right now after my wife filed for divorce.
If I were you I would find a job and try to hide as much money as possible, preferably in cash out of the bank where it can't be traced.
Once she enters in MLC full force she won't have any more compassion for you, in fact you might as well be dead to hear, that wouldn't matter.
In court she might say that she was tired of supporting you for all those years and that you didn't contribute to the marriage (like watching the kids for 24 hours a day is easy) and that you are lazy and don't want to work.
This is exactly what happened to me and you know what? The judge believed her and judges nowadays don't give male spouses support so don't count on that at all!
The only positive thing is that if you find a job and your wife makes a lot more money than you, you will have to pay very little in child support because believe me, she will get custody, not you! No matter what she does right now, no matter all the cheating! The cards are stacked against you, so you better prepare right now!
Hugs
If I were you I would find a job and try to hide as much money as possible, preferably in cash out of the bank where it can't be traced.
This might not be legal.
You can keep it separate though.
In court she might say that she was tired of supporting you for all those years and that you didn't contribute to the marriage (like watching the kids for 24 hours a day is easy) and that you are lazy and don't want to work.
This is exactly what happened to me and you know what? The judge believed her and judges nowadays don't give male spouses support so don't count on that at all!
The law is the law and if support is required, the judge has to order it.
While there may be some gender bias, the system has tried to make it a little bit more equal...
The only positive thing is that if you find a job and your wife makes a lot more money than you, you will have to pay very little in child support because believe me, she will get custody, not you!
This statement is very inappropriate. While this may be what happened to CLD, it is not what happens to everyone.
Many men here have gotten custody of the children. If not full custody then 50/50.
We are here to provide the wisdom of our experiences and support.
We are not here to make blanket generalizations that may possibly create a fear situation in people. Or to look into our crystal ball and tell them exactly what their future will hold.
Cld...please be careful with your generalizations.
CT118,
I have been reading through your thread and wanted to offer you some advice but I feel I am just too new and wouldn't know what to say.
Thanks for the advice. I am already questioning some of the stuff I wrote in here because its public and my W is beginning to snoop. I really think my snooping may slow down or end soon. Now that I have told her what I know, I actually feel more at ease if that makes sense.
Eagle11 - please, you and I are contemporaries. Post anything on my thread, even if it is hello. If you want to read where I was at the start I have like 4 threads on the newcomer forum.
Yes, it makes perfect sense. I wanted to confront my W when I first got to newcomer's in July. Advice was mixed as to do that or not, but advice was unified on 1.have a goal & a plan for it and 2. you do what you feel you have to do. So I did confront her and I felt better. Does not mean that is the right thing to do every time.
The snooping will stop at some point. You will just loose either the taste for it or the endurance, or both. Its not healthy and, this is the pill to swallow, it really is not about that OM. It just isn't.
I'm here my friend. Do you for you.
I second cat04's warning about generalizing about child custody situations. I've talked to many friends who've shared with me many divorce sitches where everything DIDN'T work out for the W.
Eagle -
I'm going a little off topic here, but with regards to keeping our mouths shut when we don't want to around our MLC W, I want to share something I'm learning.
It sounds like you are having the same problem I am with keeping it all in. You blew up on her and now you've got to deal with her covering her tracks as well as her doing what Mach1 said about altering her plan to convince herself (and you) that you are the problem. BTW - great post Mach1, I needed to hear that too.
What I'm referring to is something I can only think of as "emotional management". It's sort of learning how to recognize your feelings as they arrive and not letting them overtake you, because you and I are in a crazy situation that we're still adjusting to because it's only been a few months (7 months for me). I am not used to processing these emotions in such heavy doses (anger, sadness, fear, betrayal, vulnerability) and perhaps you are neither.
This may also be a problem if you are someone who acts on emotions right away. You may act on them because you live by your emotions and you are the fiery go-with-it type, or you may act on your emotions right away to change the situation so you can get rid of some emotion that you don't want.
I would say first to process the emotion moment by moment. I know how it is, I've gotten overwhelmed myself and I start pacing the house, trying to figure out a solution or even a temporary remedy when in fact I'm not going to solve anything because I'm too busy thinking about how freaked out I am by whatever is going on at the moment. I feel lucky in those moments that I've had friends to call.
I learned a thing or two from Elliott Hulse. He's spoken here & there about dealing with emotions and learning to manage them and NOT suppress them. Someone else on DB recommended Gabrielle Bernstein. This will help you learn how to cultivate a PMA. At first, I couldn't keep a PMA at all, I was too angry or sad. I still have times where I can't do it, but I'm getting better at it.
As for the recent conversation with you W - yeah, she's in denial about the A. She's got to convince you and herself that nothing is going on.
Don't answer her questions directly. As the advice goes from the vets, be positive & vague. Don't let her think you're going to wait around forever. Do not give the impression of the loyal puppy, it will prolong everything for her. She's focused on keeping the fantasy life going.
If you wanted to make the conversation surreal, you could always pull a Ron Swanson! Answer every question with another question.
Thanks or the replies everyone.
I have changed all my passwords to the computer, phone, credit cards again just to make sure. I hid my DR book in a different place. I am clearing all history on computer/phone when done. I am also going to make sure I don't lay my phone down when she is around. I will keep it with me at all times.
I definitely feel she was trying to turn the tables on me when she started accusing me of hiding stuff. That's why I asked her to talk about it later, but she just followed me and kept talking. I know she is scared and I won't be shocked if she stops her EA for a little while, but then starts back up. I have my guard up, as far as I am concerned nothing has changed today on the way I'm going to live my life. I am going to work on detaching and if she really ends her EA and makes a genuine effort to try to work things out then I will listen, but I know that will take a lot of time. She would also have to come clean with everything that has went on. She would need to give me her passwords to her accounts and I would have to know she is seeking help and trying. We are a long way from that I think right now.
Also, I have thought about a job. I used to do some work in my spare time a few years ago before my 2nd S was born. It was basically a hobby at the time but I earned decent money doing it. I quit once the 2nd S was born because I was taking care of two, but I might start back up again. It really wouldn't be something I would make a career doing, but it would give me extra money and also help me with detachment and GAL.
This weekend I am going to continue to detach for me. If she wants to talk I will, but she has to be the one to initiate it.
In my opinion, this is where you need to keep yourself squeaky clean.
She will not want to deal with her baggage so she will for sure project. She will go through your computers and personal stuff hoping she can find anything to deflect to you so she feels better about herself. (Clean up your personal papers, too.)
Before my h told me he wanted to sleep with other people he accused me of having an affair while I was out playing tennis. It was insane. I told him he could come 3 miles down the road and watch my playing on the court. It is written that they do think we are doing and thinking as they do. I have seem that countless times.
Also, if she can't find something, be prepared for her to start fights. That is what my h did after he couldn't find any dirt on me. With Job's help I realized he was trying to make himself feel better by getting me to get into the mud with him. If I became argumentive, well, then I was continuing to be the problem!
Keep yourself squeaky clean with a PMA and don't engage! In fact, try killing her with kindness and see what happens. That stopped all my h's argumentative antics, though it took time! He pushed every button. I think if you're squeaky clean, this forces them to have to deal with the fact that you are not the problem. (Though it'll take loads of time and they'll look for other band-aids.)
I know she is scared and I won't be shocked if she stops her EA for a little while, but then starts back up.
I'm not trying to be a johnson, but I wouldn't hold my breath. She most likely has this dude in full control. Her hitting the pause button is a pause, not a stop. At this stage of the game, rule number 32 buddy.
I have my guard up, as far as I am concerned nothing has changed today on the way I'm going to live my life. I am going to work on detaching and if she really ends her EA and makes a genuine effort to try to work things out then I will listen, but I know that will take a lot of time. She would also have to come clean with everything that has went on. She would need to give me her passwords to her accounts and I would have to know she is seeking help and trying. We are a long way from that I think right now.
Started off great, much praise. But the what she would have to do stuff...you are a long way from that and if you are still in fight/accuse zone, speaking with her about your MR is not going to help either of you. Rule numbers 5 and 17.
Also, I have thought about a job.
Awesome, this could be your best GAL yet!
This weekend I am going to continue to detach for me. If she wants to talk I will, but she has to be the one to initiate it.
That's the right attitude man. The weekend has come and gone though, so how did it pan out? Re-read the 37 rules on the Newcomer forum. Those items still apply, especially for how we conduct ourselves in the face the aggression. Hope you are well, all MLC soup du jour aside.
Update:
This weekend was a good one for me. I got out and did some things and just tried to enjoy the long weekend. Also, spent some time with the boys and took them out for dinner on Saturday night. All was pretty good, with very little drama.
The W and I got along fine when we were around each other. We actually had 2 talks this weekend. On Friday she got emotional talking about her stepdad that had died of ALS years ago. She was crying worse than I have ever seen her. She told me she is not going to go back to therapist she had been going to and would find a new one. I worry that she will just give up on therapy all together because she is not getting the results she wants. She is so impatient and thinks everything should be fixed right away. I think she has only gone to 4 or 5 therapist sessions.
We had another talk on Sunday night. This one was less emotional but still good. She is trying to figure things out as I am. She has not been angry towards me and in fact has done a 180 and has been very nice. I did not bring up the OM to her but she brought him up to me and claims it was strictly texting and nothing physical. She also claims most of the texts were about work, which I know is a lie but I did not say anything to her. She also told me that men flirt with her all the time (she is an attractive female in a male dominated industry). She said most don't know she is married and she does flirt back many times because it makes her feel good. She almost has a bipolar or different personality every day. I have no idea how she is going to be until I actually see her, she is very unpredictable.
Whenever we do talk I know to not believe anything she says. If I hadn't been on this site I would actually be believing that there was really hope for us right now, but I know that is a long way off. I know she could just be manipulating me right now to get her way so I will be careful. It will be easier now that she goes back to work tomorrow, she will be around a couple of hours tomorrow night and I don't have to be around her.
This weekend was a good one for me. {/quote]
Awesome. I was wondering what you would come back with. Makes me happy for you.
[quote=Eagle11]
She is so impatient and thinks everything should be fixed right away.
Pretty normal. I have had the exact same experience with my W. When reading about this behavior in various places, I found that expectations on many things were/are set very high by an MLC M or F. Comes from thinking that they should be 'further' than they are right now and a close death often triggers and/or contributes. Now that is what I've read, perhaps someone here who has been MLC could elaborate better than I.
She is trying to figure things out as I am. She has not been angry towards me and in fact has done a 180 and has been very nice. I did not bring up the OM to her but she brought him up to me and claims it was strictly texting and nothing physical. She also claims most of the texts were about work, which I know is a lie but I did not say anything to her. She also told me that men flirt with her all the time (she is an attractive female in a male dominated industry). She said most don't know she is married and she does flirt back many times because it makes her feel good. She almost has a bipolar or different personality every day. I have no idea how she is going to be until I actually see her, she is very unpredictable.
I am also married to a very attractive female who is highly successful in corporate America. She had an very, very similar conversation with me as to what you stated above. Why do men not know she is M? Because she doesn't tell them she is - or - because she tells them she is and then tells them about the problems (which will be exaggerated) and that is an open back door for dudes of low quality.
Whenever we do talk I know to not believe anything she says.
Nice update man. Pulling for you. Really happy about the good weekend correlation with the sons. I know you take care of them, I wonder if this experience put what they do for you into a whole new light, or did you already get that? For me, I didn't get what he did for me until all of this - one of my biggest gifts, my son is a true champion for me.
CT118, thanks for the encouragement. I appreciate the support.
Pretty normal. I have had the exact same experience with my W. When reading about this behavior in various places, I found that expectations on many things were/are set very high by an MLC M or F. Comes from thinking that they should be 'further' than they are right now and a close death often triggers and/or contributes. Now that is what I've read, perhaps someone here who has been MLC could elaborate better than I.
My W has always been in impatient and impulsive woman. That's just the way she is and has always been. She will be the first to admit it. I know she says this is the biggest complaint she gets at work is her impatience. Unfortunately, this impatience makes the sitch we are in so much worse. She wants results now in both her mental issues and with our marriage. I think that is one of the reasons she wanted a divorce right away. Nothing was getting fixed and she thinks that by ending our M then everything will be better. I've talked to her and I really feel she is willing to at least wait a while before moving forward. I know she is torn on what to do now. It sort of changes day to day. Sometimes she will ask me questions that make me believe she is thinking about trying to work things out, but then the next day she is back to just ending everything. The crazy thing is that nothing has changed between those days, she just goes back and forth all the time.
I am also married to a very attractive female who is highly successful in corporate America. She had an very, very similar conversation with me as to what you stated above. Why do men not know she is M? Because she doesn't tell them she is - or - because she tells them she is and then tells them about the problems (which will be exaggerated) and that is an open back door for dudes of low quality.
Well, I maybe a little responsible with men flirting with her. I have mentioned in the past posts that she had an EA that turned into a kiss back in 2009. In I believe 2011 she was on a work trip with 3 others and lost her wedding ring at a restaurant. This made no sense to me but apparently she would take off her ring and play with it (spin in on the table like you would a quarter). I guess she forgot about it and they left the restaurant. When she realized she lost it she went back to search but they never found it. She told me this story and I didn't believe her, especially after what had happened a couple of years earlier. I did not tell her I didn't believe her and we never talked about it, but I never bought her a replacement and over time it was kind of forgotten. She brought it up the other night that she couldn't believe I wouldn't buy her a new ring and I finally told her that I didn't think she was truthful with her story about how it was lost. She assured me it was true and invited me to call the people she was with on the trip who helped her look. I told her she probably was telling the truth but from my perspective it all didn't add up at the time.
Anyway, she doesn't wear a wedding ring so guys think she is single. She told me she used to them when they would flirt with her but now she often doesn't and flirts back. She told me she gets asked out all the time but she has never gone out with any of them.
Nice update man. Pulling for you. Really happy about the good weekend correlation with the sons. I know you take care of them, I wonder if this experience put what they do for you into a whole new light, or did you already get that? For me, I didn't get what he did for me until all of this - one of my biggest gifts, my son is a true champion for me.
I will say this experience has definitely made me appreciate my boys more. I have always been close to both of them but now I've realized they are the most important things in my life. I have definitely gotten closer with my S6, who has always been a mommy's boy, but I find myself relating to him more and more. I don't know where I would be without them. I actually think they keep me from getting depressed because I know I have to be for them.
Since I confronted my W last week she has actually changed towards our kids and actually spent time with them over the weekend. She took them to a zoo with a friend of hers on Sunday and was involved in their lives. She also texted me last Friday to let me know what time she would be home without me asking her too. I am not saying she is not up to something but I hope this means she is giving more effort and at least trying to be a better mom.
I will say this experience has definitely made me appreciate my boys more. I have always been close to both of them but now I've realized they are the most important things in my life. I have definitely gotten closer with my S6, who has always been a mommy's boy, but I find myself relating to him more and more. I don't know where I would be without them. I actually think they keep me from getting depressed because I know I have to be for them.
This was one of the many things I was grateful for. I believe I became a better father for this, realizing that spending time with my boys was far more important than many of the distractions adulthood offers.
I would get them out of school a little early every now and then after already packing a dinner of sandwiches snacks and bottled water and we would hike up a mountain and eat dinner at the top.
Hanging in there right now. I've been really busy this morning/afternoon so that has helped. Was feeling a little down last night and earlier today. I was getting depressed thinking about how long this process could take and if I could even do it. Then of course I started thinking of how long this could take and it could be all for nothing as far as my marriage. Then I started to think that if we don't get back together I am still going to have to see her nearly every week because of the children.
I know I need to work on myself, but it does make it hard when the W is at home in the evening and the morning. When I saw her this morning she was looking really attractive. I have noticed she is wearing sexier clothes to work than what she used to and she is doing her hair and makeup differently. I guess it got me down because I started thinking she was doing this for the attention of other men.
I was getting depressed thinking about how long this process could take and if I could even do it. Then of course I started thinking of how long this could take and it could be all for nothing as far as my marriage.
One
Day
At
A
Time
I have noticed she is wearing sexier clothes to work than what she used to and she is doing her hair and makeup differently.
Hard when that happens, hard not to notice things like this. Nothing is preventing you from making some style changes as well. Maybe a wardrobe update...yeah yeah money...Thrift stores my man, they aren't for bums anymore. Hows the working out sit-ups push-ups, the stuff you don't need a gym for going?
I guess it got me down because I started thinking she was doing this for the attention of other men.
maybe, maybe its other women...that's sort of hot.
All kidding aside.
Dressing up is part of the MLC for many, changes to style are another part of it. From your own point of view don't you feel better about yourself even a little bit when you dress up and know you look good?
Then I started to think that if we don't get back together...
I have an exercise for you when you feel this way. You can do this as many times as needed and it works.
Do you have a newspaper?
Go get it.
Roll it up into a tight roll.
Close your eyes.
Hit yourself on the nose with the newspaper.
This is called negative reinforcement.
Stop focusing on that negative goal.
You can thank me later.
Jack_Three_Beans,
Thanks for the advice, I needed that! I had about 5 good days in a row where I didn't really think about this stuff much until last night and this morning, so I guess that is progress.
Eagle
You are getting some great advice. I wanted to chime in a provide just a little support.
I know I need to work on myself, but it does make it hard when the W is at home in the evening and the morning.
I had a live in for 2 years. It is HARD, so I can relate. It is though POSSIBLE to work on YOU while she is still home.
Chin up buddy.
You can do this. Better yet....I can promise you that if YOU do....you will come out a changed man. You will come to realize just how STRONG you are.
And
Your W.....may one day thank you for it.
Eric,
Thanks for the advice. I know I'm not the only one going through this and after reading other threads on the board I know a lot have it worse than me. Somedays are better than others and today is not a good one mentally for me. I guess when I look at the whole sitch there is no end point and I have no idea where this will lead. Part of me feels if I told others that haven't gone through this they would say to just leave her. I have questioned myself why I would want to stay with someone who is doing this to our family. I guess that is the point I have to get to though. I have to get to the point that it will not effect me if she doesn't work things out with me. Somedays I think I can handle that and others are tough.
Eagle11,
I am not sure if others have it worse or better - I think perception is the law of the land. You sound good man, all things considered. The hard days come and go, so do the strong ones; just that at some point the strong ones get stronger and more frequent while the hard ones get softer and less frequent.
In my experience, not everyone you tell who has not gone through this will say that you should go, but you do run a high risk of hearing it when you share.
I'm pulling for you - key word there is you.
CT118,
Thanks for the encouragement. Tonight was better than this morning/afternoon. I guess that's the way it goes sometimes, it's like a roller coaster throughout the day. Maybe I will get some sleep tonight. I still haven't got a full nights sleep since this started a month ago. I can sleep 4 or 5 hours, but then I wake up and toss and turn the rest of the night.
I get through tomorrow and I got my therapist appointment Friday morning. I have only been to one appointment, but I felt a good connection with this therapist. I have gone to therapy twice before. The first time was great and she really helped me with stuff that was happening in my life at the time. The second one I didn't get feel in connection and I think I lasted 4 or 5 sessions. This current therapist listened to me talk about my marriage last time. She told me she really wants to focus on me this session, which I think will be a positive for me.
Well today I'm wondering if my W is having a texting affair with a 2nd guy. I saw her phone light up last night with a message from a guy asking her to text him and I know I shouldn't have but I snooped into our phone records. What I found was that for about the past week she has been texting this guy almost as much as she has been texting the OM. This new guy works at her office with her and I know they work together on projects, but some of the times of there texts leave me a bit skeptical that this is strictly work related. I discovered they texted on Monday night after 10 pm and last night he sent her a text at 3:00 am.
She has told me in the past that she can't stand this guy and nobody likes him. I have actually heard this same thing from one of her friends that works at the office. My W has also told me that she thinks this guys wants her. In fact, one of my W's employees has told my W not to have any meetings with this guy alone because he doesn't trust him.
Could my W be having these EA's or whatever she is doing just for the attention? Like I said before I discovered these new texts, I have heard a couple people including my W say they can't stand this guy. My W actually drove with the guy a couple of weeks aago when she went out of town for work. When she got home she complained of having to sit in the car with him. Then a week after that she can't stop texting him.
I know I shouldn't be snooping but when I saw his name pop up on that text last night I couldn't help myself. This guy is a jerk that has a wife and 4 kids and now I'm thinking she might be getting involved with him. Maybe I'm overreacting or jumping to conclusions, but with everything else that has been going on its hard not too.
The other thing is that since I confronted her last week about what I know she has been a totally different person around the house. She hasn't shown anger towards me,she has actually acted happy to see me. She has also started acting like herself around the kids. She has been much more attentive towards them, which is the exact opposite as before.
Well today I'm wondering if my W is having a texting affair with a 2nd guy. I saw her phone light up last night with a message from a guy asking her to text him and I know I shouldn't have but I snooped into our phone records. What I found was that for about the past week she has been texting this guy almost as much as she has been texting the OM. This new guy works at her office with her and I know they work together on projects, but some of the times of there texts leave me a bit skeptical that this is strictly work related. I discovered they texted on Monday night after 10 pm and last night he sent her a text at 3:00 am.
She has told me in the past that she can't stand this guy and nobody likes him. I have actually heard this same thing from one of her friends that works at the office. My W has also told me that she thinks this guys wants her. In fact, one of my W's employees has told my W not to have any meetings with this guy alone because he doesn't trust him.
Could my W be having these EA's or whatever she is doing just for the attention? Like I said before I discovered these new texts, I have heard a couple people including my W say they can't stand this guy. My W actually drove with the guy a couple of weeks aago when she went out of town for work. When she got home she complained of having to sit in the car with him. Then a week after that she can't stop texting him.
I know I shouldn't be snooping but when I saw his name pop up on that text last night I couldn't help myself. This guy is a jerk that has a wife and 4 kids and now I'm thinking she might be getting involved with him. Maybe I'm overreacting or jumping to conclusions, but with everything else that has been going on its hard not too.
Simply put...
This is why snooping is often discouraged...
You are basically asking questions that you do not want the answer to...
More often though, you are asking questions that you are not ready to hear the answer to....
How does any of this ( not so) new information change YOUR path ??
Should any of that , take the focus off of you ?
What were you hoping to see ??
The other thing is that since I confronted her last week about what I know she has been a totally different person around the house. She hasn't shown anger towards me,she has actually acted happy to see me. She has also started acting like herself around the kids. She has been much more attentive towards them, which is the exact opposite as before.
Wanna change that ^^^ ????
Tell her that you were going through her phone ...
Not a good idea....
Eagle11
One thing I've heard and read is that people will "affair down" continuing to go down-market on each subsequent one.
A good mood could also be an indication that she's getting her happiness elsewhere. I know that my W would be in a great mood with me after secretly spending time with OM.
Of course I could be completely wrong about all of this too.
Mach1,
Thanks for the response. This should not change my path. I know that, it's just so frustrating to see her do this.
Also, I have no plans to tell her about any of this. First of all, I can't prove anything because I didn't actually see anything. I know if I say something and I'm wrong, it will be bad for whatever relationship we have. I also know just telling her would admit that I can't stop snooping. She already knows I snooped before and I know she is paranoid because she thought I put a tracking device in her car last week. She tore apart her trunk looking for something that was never there. She also tried to hack into my computer to look at the history.
Eagle11
One thing I've heard and read is that people will "affair down" continuing to go down-market on each subsequent one.
A good mood could also be an indication that she's getting her happiness elsewhere. I know that my W would be in a great mood with me after secretly spending time with OM.
Of course I could be completely wrong about all of this too.
AndrewP,
I don't know much about the original OM, other than his career and I've seen a couple of pics. If this 2nd OM is true then I know she has "affaired down" because everybody I've heard talk about this guy can't stand him. Even my W couldn't stand him not that long ago. I've heard her complain to others about this guy. That is why this is so confusing.
I know you could be right about the good mood thing, but I really hope your wrong. It has been strange the last week though. She comes home from work and you would think there is nothing wrong in our M. She acts happy to see me. She wants to talk to me. She is happy to see the kids and asks about their day. She almost acts like her old self, but then she goes to work and proceeds to spend most her day texting 2 other guys about who knows what. The thing I wonder about is that now she knows I know and I didn't get upset about it, then she may think in her mind that I think it is ok.
Telling you guys not to worry about the OM is easy.
You guys not worrying about the OM is hard, if not impossible.
Look these guys are bottom feeding opportunists. If your wives weren't having some sort of crisis there is little chance they'd give them the time of day. Each one of you has more character than all of your OM put together.
With that being said.
The OM is a bandaid, and a symptom.
I will also say this with 100% honesty, looking back with Time distant, I am glad she had an OM, because I know she compared him and me. I am glad that he was there to provide some comfort in her MLC, since in no way could that be me, despite me wanting to turn him into a pretzel at the time.
It has been strange the last week though. She comes home from work and you would think there is nothing wrong in our M. She acts happy to see me. She wants to talk to me. She is happy to see the kids and asks about their day. She almost acts like her old self, but then...
Ignoring the BUT part.
You have this fantastic opportunity to show her...not tell her...just how awesome you are.
Oh and likely ANY positive changes you make she will likely complain about...ignore or validate but don't stop. She isn't the only one that can re-evaluate their life and make changes.
Use this time to shine.
You have this fantastic opportunity to show her...not tell her...just how awesome you are.
Oh and likely ANY positive changes you make she will likely complain about...ignore or validate but don't stop. She isn't the only one that can re-evaluate their life and make changes.
Use this time to shine.
Jack,
Thanks for the words. I need them tonight. The W just gave me her feelings out of nowhere tonight. She says she doesn't feel anything for me and she doesn't know if she ever will. She says its been 12 years of hurt for her and she doesn't know if she will ever love me again. She doesn't think she can be her true self around me. She said I don't appreciate her for what all she has done for our marriage. She thinks I don't find her attractive or that I truly love her either. I could go on and on with what she said. It was like being punched in the face. This came out of nowhere tonight, there was no indication this was going to come up. She also claims the OM is over and her texts are for support at work because he knows what she is going through with the stress of her job and I don't.
I also opened my big mouth after she told me this stuff and told her I thought she has been controlling in our relationship because I feel she has always been the one to make the big decisions and I never really had a say. I gave her some examples and she obviously didn't agree. As soon as those words came out of my mouth I regretted saying it. It just seems so unfair that she can criticize me for everything but I can't say anything to her.
Also, she told me she doesn't need to go to therapy anymore because she can handle it on her own, but I am the one who needs to go to therapy. I told her I agree that I need to go to therapy but she really needs to think about giving up therapy. She has some serious issues that need to be dealt with and she knows that, but she is just going to give up.
She told me she might have to work this Saturday, she is going out of town next week for 3 days, the following week for 3 days and she might have to go out of town that weekend as well. Then she tells me she thinks she needs 4 or 5 days to unwind with her mom or sister so she can relax and get away from all this stress. She said she needs to really think about our relationship. Of course in my head I'm thinking she isn't going away with her mom or sister but with the OM. That could be me just overthinking things but I just don't know if I believe her. One thing for sure though is that if she has to be away all this time then I won't have much time for me. I will be watching the kids.
Eagle,
She doesn't think she needs therapy. Why? Because there's nothing wrong w/her (in her mind). I wouldn't have any more discussions about her going to therapy. You can't argue w/an irrational person. If you think you need to seek out some therapy, then go...but it's best to let things be w/her about this subject.
Try not to "assume" anything when it comes to her comments/actions. I think she told you quite a bit about what she is doing, which makes me think that guilt was helping her lips to move freely. But, we can't assume that she'll be anywhere but where she said she'll be at this time. Time will tell.
I'm sorry that you'll have the kids while she's out and about, but I'm sure you'll come up w/some entertainment that all of you will enjoy. BTW, do you have a reliable sitter? Maybe get a sitter for a bit if you feel the need to get out and have a breather from taking care of the kids. There's no harm in that...just like mommy, daddy will need some time to himself as well.
Eagle,
She doesn't think she needs therapy. Why? Because there's nothing wrong w/her (in her mind). I wouldn't have any more discussions about her going to therapy. You can't argue w/an irrational person. If you think you need to seek out some therapy, then go...but it's best to let things be w/her about this subject.
Try not to "assume" anything when it comes to her comments/actions. I think she told you quite a bit about what she is doing, which makes me think that guilt was helping her lips to move freely. But, we can't assume that she'll be anywhere but where she said she'll be at this time. Time will tell.
I'm sorry that you'll have the kids while she's out and about, but I'm sure you'll come up w/some entertainment that all of you will enjoy. BTW, do you have a reliable sitter? Maybe get a sitter for a bit if you feel the need to get out and have a breather from taking care of the kids. There's no harm in that...just like mommy, daddy will need some time to himself as well.
Job,
I'm about to go to my 2nd therapy session in about 30 minutes. I think it is coming at a good time after last night. Didn't get much sleep so I got up at 5:30 and went to the gym. It's funny, but the things she is saying to me I could almost predict that she would by reading other people's threads on here. It really is almost like a script. She is the one that has broken down crying countless times in the past month talking about her past and yet now she is suddenly cured and doesn't need the help of a therapist. I won't push it anymore with her.
This whole thing started innocently. I asked her if there was a day she could watch our S2 next week so I could schedule another therapy appointment. She told me next Friday and then I asked her if she had found another therapist because the last we talked about this she said she was looking. That's when she blew up and said she didn't need one anymore and I was the only one who needed one.
Also, she sat there and was texting the original OM and she let me see they were texting about work. She said that's all they text about now and the reason she still texts him is because he is in the same situation at his job as she is at hers. They have the same title and are dealing with the same stuff so they can relate to each other. Of course I don't see how 150 texts a day can be about work but I didn't say anything. I was also good and didn't bring up the suspected new OM.
She told me she is so stressed at work and she can't talk to me about it because I won't understand her job and what she is talking about and that is why she is talking to these OM. I told her to tell me anyway because if it is stressing her out then I want to help, even if all I did was allow her to vent her frustrations.
She also told me she had to go to lunch yesterday with a new client and while they were driving he touched and rubbed her leg. I asked her what that meant and she said she didn't know. I have no idea why she told me that. I don't know if she wanted to make me jealous or upset. Maybe she just wanted me to know that somebody else finds her attractive.
Unfortunately we don't have a babysitter. We both have agreed that if we had a babysitter and better communication we probably wouldn't be in this sitch. We moved here about a year ago and have never really found anyone we were comfortable with.
Finally, the most frustrating thing about this is that I have no control over this M. It's up to her to decide what we do and it's so frustrating. She controls what will happen to our family and its so stressful to have to live like this. I know I have to take care of myself, but its just not right that this insane woman is going to effect what happens to the rest of my life.
I'm sorry you didn't sleep well last night. The therapy session will be good for you today. Yes, they all tend to use the script in MLC and in some cases as a WAW too. The only difference can be the actions that they take.
As for her text messages to the OM...it's called an emotional affair. To her, it's just sharing and talking about work, but she should be turning to you for support and certainly not 150 text messages to the OM, even if it is about work. As for the client, do you think that incident was real or did she imagine it? I know that my xh thought his co-worker's wife was flirting w/him and had the hots for him, but that wasn't the case at all. She was just being courteous to him when her h wss in a motorcycle accident and we came by to visit w/them. All she did was smile at him and he was off to the wild blue yonder thinking she wanted him. Maybe this is the same type of fantasy in her mind. Maybe she's talking out loud about it to make it more real and also see what your reaction will be.
Yes, I do understand the frustration of not having any control over the marriage at the moment. Just remember, you do have control over you, what you say and how you react to things. You can choose to sit and do nothing or continue to work on you and keep your focus on you and your kids...which I believe you are doing w/your whole heart.
Good luck w/therapy today. I do hope it helps.
but its just not right that this insane woman is going to effect what happens to the rest of my life.
She really isn't....
YOU control what happens the rest of your life....
Less about her, more about you...
I also opened my big mouth after she told me this stuff and told her I thought she has been controlling in our relationship because I feel she has always been the one to make the big decisions and I never really had a say. I gave her some examples and she obviously didn't agree. As soon as those words came out of my mouth I regretted saying it.
The next time you feel like defending or arguing...just try and remember how well it goes for you right now.
And this isn't one of those things where..."maybe THIS time it will go differently"...it won't.
It just seems so unfair that she can criticize me for everything but I can't say anything to her.
Who the [censored] told you life was going to be fair?
You should get your money back from that guy.
Finally, the most frustrating thing about this is that I have no control over this M. It's up to her to decide what we do and it's so frustrating. She controls what will happen to our family and its so stressful to have to live like this. I know I have to take care of myself, but its just not right that this insane woman is going to effect what happens to the rest of my life
Then quit. Then you have control. You have control in how long you do this. There is your control. Stand up to her and ride this out, there is your control.
You are confusing the Pain of what you are CHOOSING to go through as not having control. And that is not true.
You are choosing to hold onto your marriage, and let pretend that marriage metaphorically is a burning log. You are choosing to hold onto it with your hand and you are getting burnt and you are basically saying, this log is burning me and I cannot control it.
You could choose to use some tongs, distance and all of the protective strategies we suggest.
You cannot be a victim here if you choose this course. This woman doesn't have THAT much power over you. It is my hope that your realize that soon, and that while you are being mistreated and are suffering you realize it is your choice because you want to be able to save your marriage.
You are on a small boat, your wife's MLC is a raging hurricane in front of you. Go through or go around.
I have posted this several times before, I'd appreciate it if you read it. I think you could use it, yes it is a poem, but it a poem when men where men, not some of this BS slam poetry hipster garbage.
Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafraid.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate,
I am the captain of my soul.
- William Ernest Henley
As for the client, do you think that incident was real or did she imagine it?
I have wondered about this. I was the one that actually brought up the meeting with the client to see how it went. She told me it went well and then started telling me about the guy and that he offered to give my son and I tickets for a sporting event this month. She didn't bring up the touching of her leg until at least an hour later and it came totally out of the blue. I don't know if she was imagining it or maybe he just touched her leg in an innocent way. I also wonder if she just told me this so I would think another guy found her attractive and maybe make me angry or jealous. At this point I'm probably better off not analyzing it.
Jack_Three Beans,
Great post and I will need to read it a few more times for it to sink in. The post has made me reevaluate how I am going about things. The burning log metaphor made sense to me and I definitely need to think about things and how I am going about getting my life back in order.
I had my 2nd therapist appointment today and I must say I actually like going to this therapist. I came in feeling so depressed but left in a much better frame of mind. She told me many of the same things you all have told me hear and it was nice to talk to someone in person and get that kind of feedback. She really focused at the end of our session in making sure I'm not blaming myself for these EA's. She said the EA's are my W's choice but are not on me. If she was not happy in the marriage it is not an excuse to seek someone else. We also talked about ways to get me in a better place and will focus more on that next week. This might sound crazy but I wish I could go to therapy more often. Even if its just to talk to someone in person who will listen to me and acts as if they care.
The therapist explained my W's thinking as best she could and allowed me to get a better understanding of where this is all coming from. She believes this stems from her childhood and lack of relationship with her biological father as well as her stepfather who passed away. My therapist truly believes my W will not get better without counseling but there is nothing I can do about that. My therapist feels my W has been holding onto a lot of this anger/depression for 30 years since her parents divorced. My therapist admired me for sticking through this so far but told me just as you all have that this could take a long time for my W to get through, especially without therapy.
Your therapist is a very smart lady. Listen to what she's telling you. Yes, your wife has been harboring a lot of anger/depression for the last 30 years and guess what, that's why she's in crisis mode now. She couldn't stuff those feelings any longer. Now, while she's dealing w/that trauma, the feelings that she has for you are now stuffed way down in her soul. Don't think for one minute that they aren't because they are. This is all about her, not you.
Therapy will not help your wife at this time because she's in replay and will do one of the following: 1) go because you want her to go; 2) she'll go and then stop because she doesn't think that there is anything wrong w/her; and 3) she will have selective hearing and only hear what she wants to here to justify what she's doing. In time, she may decide to go to therapy on her own.
I'm very happy to read that you were in a much better frame of mind after meeting up w/your therapist. Continue going because it's going to help you come to realize that you only have control over yourself, but also she is explaining some of what we have already told you.
Keep at it.
P.S. Please start a new thread.
New Thread:
Confused on What To Do 2