My Loving Wife Turned Against Me One Day 2

Here is the Link from the old thread.

Here is the link from the old thread.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2697627#Post2697627

Cld,
If I remember correctly, you had posted early on in the previous thread that you had some things that you needed to work on for yourself. Can you share what they were? What were the most common issues that your wife complained about w/you and the marriage?

If you are uncomfortable answering, I understand. Sometimes, it helps us to better understand what the MLCing spouse was/is complaining about w/the spouse.

Controlling.
That's the main thing I believe.
Which I am to some degree.
Having said that, I am perfectly fine living separately for the rest of our lives and see each other occasionally.
Am I still controlling?

Cld,
I can't respond to your question about are you still controlling. I might be better able to answer that question after you've posted for a longer period of time. I'm sure that there were other issues that she may have pointed out.

Generally when they say we are controlling, they can also tend to point out that we are manipulative, stubborn, condescending, don't listen, judgmental, determined to have our way and we want to always be right and we always want the last word in any conversation or discussion. Has your wife ever stated that you don't value you her as an equal partner because she's a woman? If you don't feel comfortable answering the above, I do understand. These examples are just a few of what some of the MLCers will toss out for justification.

I do think that you need to keep an open mind on what the posters have been posting and take some time to think about what they've posted. They all can't be wrong and they all certainly didn't come from broken homes. We are here to assist any way that we can and we want to see every poster become a success story, i.e., whether the spouses reconcile or they go their separate ways.

I praised my wife all the time, I told her that she was a good mother, very intelligent, very hardworking and good-looking. I always asked her for her advice on medical and educational related matters. I cooked frequently for her and watched the kids Saturday and Sunday morning so that she could sleep in.
We planned family trips all the time, picking blueberries, train rides, snow festivals. We spent vacations together, we drove to California from Michigan and back.
I never hit her and only occasionally there were disagreements. Two days before she left we celebrated our son's birthday at a water park and the day before we ate dinner with friends all happily. She came home with 3 police officers who gave me a restraining order and left with the kids. I thought I was going to die out of pain. I haven't talked to her in 7 months. After telling the judge, he ordered a psychological evaluation and we found out that her mother divorced her father out of the blue when she was 7. Now my daughter is 7 and she has divorced me out of the blue as well. She is doing to me exactly what her mother did to her father. We can call it midlife crisis or chaos child syndrome. What I have realized is that childhood matters, women tend to act like their mothers and men like their fathers during the first 10 years.

Cld,
I am very sorry that you are in this situation. I know it was a shock to discover that she had filed for divorce. I know it's difficult not to think about your situation all of the time, but do try to focus on yourself as much as possible and also on your children.

I know that you see your son often...but is the reason that you don't see your daughter as much because of you spanking her when you lived as a family? Can you remember if your wife ever mentioned being corrected by her father, i.e., spanking, etc.? Something about how she's dealing w/daughter's visitation doesn't sound right...but I could be wrong.

What transpired 12-18 months prior to her dropping the bomb? Something triggered this reliving in the past for her. Did someone close to her pass away, lose a job or project, etc.? Her dropping the bomb may have appeared sudden, but she had been thinking about leaving for some time. By the time the bomb was dropped, she had already begun to detach from the relationship, etc.

Let's focus on you a bit...what are your hobbies and interests? What did you enjoy doing pre wife and family?

Starting next week I will be able to take my daughter home finally each Sunday from 10 am until 6 pm. Yes, my wife said in court that I was verbally and physically abusive with our daughter because I spanked her on the bottom 4 times in 7 years (shaking my head) and the judge gave me supervised visitation for one hour a week in the past six months (unbelievable!). I don't know who is more messed up, my wife or the legal system. Again, I came from Italy, and this would be absurd there. The judge in Italy would have told my wife that we needed to go to marriage counseling for one year before filing for divorce and that spanking a child on the bottom occasionally is perfectly fine. No wonder Italy has one of the lowest divorce rates in the world. I saw women in court here all excited about getting divorced and that looked surreal to me. Nobody seems to understand the damage done to the children, lawyers surely don't care, they only care about money. If I tell them that the system is messed up and that divorce is wrong they become defensive because they probably filed for divorce themselves in the past or came from broken families (lawyers divorce a lot). It looks like with every generation things are getting worse. I will do my best to protect my children from this monster called divorce but the system, her family, the media, her mother and her friends are all against me.

A few days before the bomb drop we has sex and we talked about how we were going to celebrate our coming anniversary. Everything seemed normal.

The trigger was our daughter becoming 7. She had to get divorced because her parents got divorced when she was 7.

If your daughter's turning 7 was the trigger, then the divorce of her parents hurt very deeply and she may very well have some abandonment issues she's dealing with, i.e., father not in the picture full time. Did she ever talk about why her mother left her father, i.e., the excuse given for the divorce? Was her father very strict w/her? Did she witness a lot of arguing in her parents' home, etc.? Did she live w/her mother or her father? Does she have siblings? Did her mother remarry? If so, how did the step-father treat her? Did her father remarry? If so, how did the step-mother treat her?

I realize I'm asking quite a few questions, but I'm trying to better understand your wife's actions.

Yes, the divorce of her parents hurt her deeply.
Yes, she has abandonment issues because her father moved to another state when she was 13.
In the psychological report she said that her mother left her father for no apparent reason, they seemed to get along well.(same as us)
The excuse for the divorce was that her father was controlling (same excuse as mine).
She lived with her father from age 7 until age 13, he had custody, and with her mother after age 13 when the father moved to another state.
She has one brother.
Her mother did not remarry.
Her father did remarry and the step-mother was rude to her.

It looks like all midlife crises here have the OM factor except mine and qt4x11. Are they still considered midlife crises or are they walkaway wives? My wife had a troubled childhood while qt4x11 wife seems to be coming from a good family.
My wife had all the peri-menopause symptoms and that's why I believe the she is in a MlC also, but who knows for sure.
When can I expect to see some improvements? Maybe after the divorce is finalized? Maybe after a year from BD?

Cld,

A person in crisis may or may not have another person waiting in the wings, i.e., involved with. The OP (other person) is just a band aid. Her "band aid/crutch" of choice could be something else. Some take on hobbies and go to the extreme, some take up traveling, whatever they take up, it becomes the center of their universe during the crisis.

Your wife's situation could be a combination of peri-menopause and crisis. Again, no one can honestly state what her condition is at this time. If she's in crisis, replay takes a long time and I'm not putting an exact amount of time on this stage because it will take as long as it takes for her to work thru her issues. Her clock is very, very slow and it could take years.

As for the divorce, you may see a little bit of softening after the divorce, but again, it all depends upon her. She will go thru an euphoric stage which she is happy as clam and thinks that this is it, no more Cld in my life, I am finally free to live my life the way I want. This usually takes about 6 -12 months for them to work thru and then they come to realize that they still have their issues and responsibilities.

The time frame for the crisis is difficult to predict because each person is unique, just as their personalities and childhood experiences are unique. In life, the medical profession can give you a ball park figure as to when a person will finally find relief from chicken pox, but when it comes to MLC, it is not a recognized disease. MLC can take 2-5 years or even longer before a person may come to earth. So, while you are living your life, dig deeper for patience and continue to move forward and busy. Try to keep the focus on you and your children and turn your wife's situation over to the man upstairs. Unfortunately, you didn't break her, therefore, you can't fix her.

Thank you job.
I have no clue what my wife is doing right now so I don't know if she has another man or not and I don't think that she started a new hobby because she is very busy with work, children and school.
She still has a picture of us together on her Facebook which gives me hope, plus she is living with her mother and the kids, so it's not a place where she would take another man. It looks like she wants to live with her mother permanently.
I am going to start to meet her during the exchanges of the kids probably starting next week. I want to be smiling but short with either no contact or very short sentences. I am not sure if I should say HI to her. My 3 year old is doing very well, he tells me several times throughout the day that he loves me, I think I am doing a good job in protecting him from the negative forces of divorce. Soon I will be able to work on my daughter as well, she wants to come home with me but she can't right now. Hopefully next Sunday...I feel alone without a woman and sometimes I have fantasies of finding a smiling 19 year old girlfriend but that would just compromise the situation with the kids and their mom and there is no assurance that it would last.
I haven't touched a woman in 7 months and I wonder how long I can go on like this. In a perfect world I would say forever until their mom comes back or until the kids are 18.... I will do my best.

Cld,

When you do the child swap, it's okay to be civil. You don't have to be chatty, but if you want to show your child a good way to handle difficult situations, when she leaves, wish her a nice day, Sometimes just saying those words or a smile here or there will go a long way towards both parties being civil to one another. If she asks a question, answer it, but you don't have to be curt. Treat her the same way that you would want to be treated by a distant relative. Lead by example and this allows your child to see that it is safe to speak to both of you. If you display anger towards his mother, he may begin to wonder if he's at fault, etc.

It's not an easy walk in the park, but the race is not a sprint...it's a marathon and right now, no one knows who will reconcile and who won't. Try to live you life to the fullest and it's possible to leave the door ajar for her, if she so wishes to catch up at a later time.

Hey cld. My W doesn't have OM either.

My wife is 5 years older than me, she is 44 and I am 39. On top of that I look like I am 25 and she looks her age. She gained weight and has had several health problems in the past 10 years like back problems, pain in the leg and her foot, her gallbladder was removed, she had 2 C sections, she had A-fibrillation twice in her heart, she can't hear very well from one year and now she is having this mental illness/midlife crisis.
I am very healthy and I haven't been sick in the past 20 years.
I am very thankful that she gave me 2 healthy kids and that she worked hard all those years but her health has affected her mood and she is not a positive person to be around right now. I honestly don't want to live with her anymore, I just want her to be nice to me and work together so that we can co-parent our children and hopefully they won't get scarred too much by all of this.

I'm gonna bring this over here out of respect for qt's thread...

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2697965#Post2697965

First off..

Do NOT lump me into your "all Men" theory on statistics...

Statistics can be manipulated to fit into whatever research that one wants them to fit into...

First lesson of any statistic course, is to NOT believe them...

Secondly...

Why do you hate Women ?

What purpose does it serve you, to be condescending, and arrogant to Women ?

Did it ever occur to you, that amount of life lessons that you could learn by simply trying to understand that you are not perfect, simply by being a guy....???

Did it ever occur to you, that typically, most Women just want to be heard. They don't want YOU to fix their problems. They only want to be understood...???

You say that you are controlling, well, you are certainly proving that theory correct.

So let me ask you this....

Why do you have longer custody with your Son than you do with your Daughter ??

Why does she get spanked, when your Son doesn't ???

What message are you send to her, when you disregard her gender to the point that you have shown here repeatedly ???

I see that you are here, just waiting for your wife to "snap out of things"...

That is a red flag to me, anytime that I read that from someone....

To put that all onto her, as some sort of mental illness ( as you called it), means that YOU accept no fault at all....

Maybe it is "her" that is sane, and you need to "snap out of this"....

????

I don't want to bash you...

But I'll be damned if I sit by, and watch you disrespect a place that I hold in such high regard.

And more importantly, continue with this long standing verbal abuse of the Women on this board...

They don't want to be right, and they don't want to be wrong...

They just want to be heard.

MLC is something that is different on any level from anything that you have ever dealt with....

There is no timetable...

There are no rules...

Only understanding, love, and life beyond MLC...

Some make it through, some don't...

Some have the courage to stare down the monster, some don't...

The thing is....is that YOU have no say in that matter....

The ONLY thing that you can do, is to stare down your own monsters...

And just for the record....

This isn't an argument..

This is my view, from the words that you have posted to others here.

It's not up to you to diagnose me, or to categorize me....

If you want to discuss this further, then I am open to it...

IF not.....good luck

Who are you mach1?
What is your story?
Why should I listed to you?

Originally Posted By: Cld

Who are you mach1?
What is your story?
Why should I listed to you?

Do your research...

My story is in here..

Find the posts if you wanna know more...

It isn't my job to educate you...

It is your job to learn....

You signed up here to post...you do the work....

At least you could have a timeline like everyone else. I am not going to play Sherlock Holmes.

Originally Posted By: Cld

At least you could have a timeline like everyone else. I am not going to play Sherlock Holmes.

I do have a timeline...

And I know that you aren't Sherlock..

HE actually liked and respected Women....

When I say a timeline I mean a signature at the bottom of your posts, I don't see it.

I will help you...

According to Cadet...

You right click on the poster's name and click on "view user's posts"

Really simple...

I surely will read them all...

Cld,
The forum does not require a timeline to be posted. If a poster wishes to post a timeline, it is up to them. There are many who don't have a timeline, including myself.

Please take a step back and try to listen to what the posters have said. They are not trying to "bash you" for what you've posted, but they are trying to point out that your posts come across as you have issues w/the USA, our laws, women and you specifically pointed out white women. You become very defensive and argumentative whenever someone says something that you don't want to hear. You appear to need to have the last word.

Your posts tend to give the impression that you think women in the USA are manipulative and gold diggers. Not ALL USA women are like that, not ALL women are like that. Please be mindful that we have a large posting community of woman from all walks of life, i.e., race, nationality and religion. They have a lot to offer in the way of advice and support.

Mach is one of the most respected gentlemen on the forum. He comes here and posts excellent advice and provides great support to all who post in any of the forums. If you want to visit the threads of others, please use the search key. It is not the posters' responsibility to provide links to their threads for other posters to read. If you need assistance in locating a thread, I will be more than happy to help you, but each and every one of us needs to learn how to use the forum and seek out reference material ourselves.

Cld,

You can also go to the top of the forum and click on search, type the poster's name in and go from there. Also, at this same place, you can click on advanced search and change the view dates from current to all postings and then you can go back as far as 2008/2009 for postings of others.

job,
I am self employed and I am very successful in what I am doing, and through the years I have learned to take advice only from the people that have achieved results and really know they are talking about.
I really like MrBond and I hope that he will continue to post on my thread and Irish of course, I think he will reconcile at some point. If you know anybody else who was successful in restoring the relationship with his wife please let me know, that's the kind of people I need right now. I am also looking for women who did the same. I have tremendous respect for women who value family and morals and would like to be associated with them as well.

Originally Posted By: Cld

job,
I am self employed and I am very successful in what I am doing, and through the years I have learned to take advice only from the people that have achieved results and really know they are talking about.
I really like MrBond and I hope that he will continue to post on my thread and Irish of course, I think he will reconcile at some point. If you know anybody else who was successful in restoring the relationship with his wife please let me know, that's the kind of people I need right now. I am also looking for women who did the same. I have tremendous respect for women who value family and morals and would like to be associated with them as well.

I'm going to not say what I really want to say,but I'll tell you this:

You'll find the people who have restored their Marriages will have the same advice as those of us who are still success stories, but didn't save their marriages.

But I'll let you figure that out on your own

Originally Posted By: Cld

job,
I am self employed and I am very successful in what I am doing, and through the years I have learned to take advice only from the people that have achieved results and really know they are talking about.

I disagree...

While you might be successful in some areas of your life...

Truly successful people listen to ALL advice, and are smart enough to know the difference....

Horses and water, everyone.

Cid, what will you do if you discover your wife is having an affair? Statistics and all that.

Cld,

I agree with everyone else. You seem to want to cherry-pick the information that you THINK only pertains to you. Throughout my situation, I listened to everyone. Especially to the advice that I didn't agree with because, guess what? it was what my W believed. Everyone's opinion matters and in some of your responses you are coming off as arrogant.

I believe in the beginning of this string of posts you said your W believed that your biggest problem you needed to work on was...

"Controlling.
That's the main thing I believe.
Which I am to some degree."

I disagree that you're controlling to "some" degree. You're much more than that.

If you're willing to listen and learn, you'll grow and change, if not, then you will remain the same and so will your sitch.

Jack_Three_Beans,

Nothing, I will wait patiently for the Affair to end.
Actually I think that she already had an Affair that lasted only a few months and now she is single again. She still has the picture of us together on Facebook, and she told my son that "we will get back together only if daddy gets nice", so I have hope for the future.
But again, it took 5 years for MrBond's wife to come back to him so I have almost no expectations right now after only 7 months.

Have you asked MrBond "Why" his wife came back to him?
I guarantee it wasn't because she came to her senses.

MrBond,

What should I do with the kids?
I keep telling them that their mom is a good person and that I will always love them and their mother no matter what and that I won't look for another girl.
They like that very much and it gives them hope for the future.

Cld,
I'm sorry you feel the way that you do. Each and every poster is a success story in my books. Why? Because they all have fought long and hard for their marriages. Many of them didn't ask that their spouses divorce them. Some have been separated for a very long time and continue to hold out hope that one day, their spouses will wake up and others have moved forward and created new lives for themselves, not necessarily w/new spouses. We don't have control over whether or not our spouses wish to return...we only have control over how we deal w/the situation that we are in.

Well, Cld, I hate to break it to you, there are hundreds of posters on this forum that do know what they are talking about. Why? Because they have lived it. They know what works and what won't work. They've done the hard work of looking in the mirror, seeing themselves and have come to realize what they need to do to work on themselves. I have devoted 17 years to educating myself on MLC, depression, personality disorders and childhood issues. These issues cross all walks of life and are not specific to one gender, race, financial status or nationality.

Have you thought about the 50% of the marriage breakdown? Your wife isn't the only one that had a breakdown in the marriage. It takes two to make a marriage a success and only one to divorce. Have you taken the time to really think about what role you played in the demise of the marriage? I know you mentioned one issue was controlling. What other issues did she mention? Have you worked on them? I know that you think it's all her, maybe some of her justifications are on target and maybe some aren't, but we all have to sit down and think about those comments and see if there is any validity in what they've stated. If there is, then we have a starting point for the work we need to do on ourselves. Again, I'm not here to point fingers at you, but you do have some hard work to do. Statistics will not bring your wife back...you have a better chance of having your wife return if you do the hard, necessary work.

job,

I will listen to you as well.
You are very knowledgeable and I do value your advice.

What do you do with the kids? You can reassure them that their mother is a good person and loves them very much and that you will always love them and be there for them. You don't need to bring up the fact that you are not going to be looking for another woman. You don't know what the future holds and promises such as this don't need to be said to children.

Also, saying such things may very well go back to their mother. Is that what you are hoping? That your children will tell their mother what you said? If so, stop it! Your children maybe getting caught in the middles by telling mommy things you've said and they are little innocent children who don't know any better when telling things to mommy.

Before I respond, you really do need to read my last post to you. I feel that you owe a feel posters an apology. Everyone hear has gone through the same pain you have. And believe me, some people have gone through much worse than you have. I have seen cases where the WAS had the LBS thrown in jail, left them penniless, abandoned them while they're battling a terminal disease, etc.

Yet everyone comes here to share their stories and offer their help when they can. I would add that some humility would be a good thing.

job,
Alright, I will stop saying that to the kids.
You are right.

MrBond,

Alright, I do apologize if I offended anyone and I hope that we can all reconcile someday or at least have a happy and meaningful life.

Speaking as someone a bit knowledgable here in this area, everyone posting to you would be someone I would listen to.

Looking solely for those "success" posters to advise you...they are going to give you the exact same advice that one of those "unsuccessful" posters will.

A little advice:

If I call you fat and you're not fat, it's not going to hurt or sting you.
If I call you fat and you are fat, it is going to hurt or sting you.

If something stings, it is worth taking a look at in yourself, especially if you don't like it.

Now, well not now, maybe a few months if you're still here and not quite as pissed off about everything, it is a good time to take a look at the crap you don't like about yourself and start making changes.

Jack_Tree_Beans,

I will take advice from you as well, I see that you have been here for a while.
One thing I can't stand if people start to calling me names or advices me to "move on" and start looking for a girlfriend.
I don't need that kind of negativity.

Cld many of the posters posting to you saved me. They really care and know what they are talking about. I fought back at 1st too cause I didn't want to see it. And they were right. I learned a lot from them. You will too.

No one has told you to start looking for a girlfriend. I don't tell people to move on. I advise them to move forward and not get stuck in a rut. Moving forward, to me, means living your life to the fullest, it means turning the focus on to you and your children and setting your thoughts of your wife aside for a while. It means working on yourself and yes, it's difficult in the beginning to move forward, but w/each day, you learn to take it one second at a time and until you can work up to one day at a time.

It's understandable that your threads are full of your wife, her health issues, etc. We have learned very little about you, Cld. What makes you tick? What are your interests? Do you go out w/your friends and have a good time, i.e. male bonding? Now is a good time to make a list of those things that you would like to do, but didn't have a chance to do for a long time. When your children are w/you, make plans to some fun things. Do you have a park near you, a library that has reading time for children or go to a movie w/them? These are things that help not only the children, but you, to think about something else besides your wife.

It's difficult, but you can do it. It's time for Cld to move forward and get out of the rut. Again, I'm not saying move on and find a woman to keep you company. For now, your focus needs to be on you and what you can do to improve yourself and make you the man that your wife will think twice about and want to reconcile with.

Cld,

I don't believe that anyone told you to move on and find anyone else. That is not something any of the people who have posted to you would say.

I also don't believe that anyone called you a name. That would be a character assination and isn't something that we make a regular practice of here.

You can cherry pick who you take advice from. Thing is...you don't know all the details of anyone's story. Like I said in my first post to you...you are only looking at the outcome and that is not the right place to look. Simply reconciling doesn't make a happy relationship. It just makes a relationship.

The WORK is what makes a happy relationship.

I will say that while you apologized, I don't buy it. Not yet. You have said some hugely offensive things and I don't think you have any idea what they even are, nevermind why they were offensive and why you should be sorry.

Maybe someday...

job,

As soon as I sign this divorce judgement, I will focus massively on my work. I am glad that my wife couldn't destroy the business that I built in the past 10 years. Believe me, I won't focus on my wife, I will get back to work full force and grow the business like never before.
As far as friends and social life, I do have male business partners that I talk to every day, plus I have my father who is always there for me every day as well. This board is helping me as well big time and I am glad you are not charging me money, but I bought "The divorce Remedy" and "Divorce Busting" that I will start to read as soon as they come. I also have a vegan group of friends that I meet monthly and we eat together the food that we prepare.

Cld,

Didn't your wife assist you in the building of your business? Since she's in the work force, didn't she have family health insurance, which included you as a spouse? Did she provide some funds to help establish the business and help pay the house and utility payments while you were a stay at home husband? Didn't she provide support and encouragement to you during the start up of the business?

Do have any hobbies that you've put on the back burner? Are there things that you would like to do once things settle down and I don't mean your entire focus on the business. You have to have some down time or you will burn yourself out very quickly.

cat04,

I am very happy alone, in no way I want my wife or any other woman in my house ever again. I just need my wife to be friendly and help me raise the kids, that would be considered success to me. I really do not miss the sex life, I am more than happy by myself.
Reconciliation to me means being friendly enough without having to go to court for every little thing, that's all I want.

You didn't answer my questions from my previous post. You have a habit of ignoring things that you don't want to acknowledge.

"in no way I want my wife or any other woman in my house ever again."

If you make this your goal, fine. But you're not going to be attracting anything good from it. Personally, I don't think you should close yourself off. It's important for your kids to see what a healthy relationship is like so they can carry it on to their own experiences. It's the perpetuation of there not being any good examples of healthy relationships that continues the cycle of D.

"Reconciliation to me means being friendly enough without having to go to court for every little thing, that's all I want."

Really? I thought you wanted your M again.

Quote:

I will take advice from you as well,

Not sure if it is your intention, but pointing out who you will take advice from is sort of arrogant.

Quote:

I see that you have been here for a while.

Doesn't really mean a lot. Mr.Bond's advice was just as good with only a year here and only a couple hundred posts. Pretty much anyone in MLC has good advice.

Quote:

One thing I can't stand if people start to calling me names

Haven't read all your threads so, not sure what or where this is in reference too. It is counter productive around here.

Quote:

or advices me to "move on" and start looking for a girlfriend.
I don't need that kind of negativity.

You're right you don't need that. Going out on alimb here, is this your friend or your dad? Fairly certain you didn't get that advice in MLC, maybe Newcomers? I sort of doubt that too...but you're right bad advice.

If it is your friend or dad tell them to back off on that subject. Friends and family tend not to want to see you hurt or hurting and give bad advice in that regard.

So you're willing to take my advice? Awesome...

When I need advice I talk to Mach and cat...both who have posted here.

IF you don't like someones advice don't respond.

Everyone here has or is going through what you are going through, some are much closer to it than others and their advice is critical because they will understand and can relate better...those posters are the ones who don't have a big post count nor have "been here for awhile."

Experience is one thing, but being in the trenches is another. Everyone here has the experience you currently lack.

Originally Posted By: job

Cld,

Didn't your wife assist you in the building of your business? Since she's in the work force, didn't she have family health insurance, which included you as a spouse? Did she provide some funds to help establish the business and help pay the house and utility payments while you were a stay at home husband? Didn't she provide support and encouragement to you during the start up of the business?

Do have any hobbies that you've put on the back burner? Are there things that you would like to do once things settle down and I don't mean your entire focus on the business. You have to have some down time or you will burn yourself out very quickly.

She didn't assist in the building of the business.
We had health insurance through her employer, now I have my own.
Yes, she did help financially with the utilities while we were married.
She didn't provide support or encouragement in the building of the business.
Not really, I only want to focus on the business.

Originally Posted By: MrBond

"in no way I want my wife or any other woman in my house ever again."

If you make this your goal, fine. But you're not going to be attracting anything good from it. Personally, I don't think you should close yourself off. It's important for your kids to see what a healthy relationship is like so they can carry it on to their own experiences. It's the perpetuation of there not being any good examples of healthy relationships that continues the cycle of D.

"Reconciliation to me means being friendly enough without having to go to court for every little thing, that's all I want."

Really? I thought you wanted your M again.

I would like to try LAT (living apart together) where we live separately and occasionally we do things together with the kids. Living together was a problem for my wife, she didn't feel free to regulate the temperature of the room, to decorate the way she wanted, to have her space, to watch TV etc...and I don't want her to feel like we have to compromise everything and lose our individualism.

Bottom line is... do you want to save your M?

MrBond,
My legal marriage is over.
I want to save the relationship, I want a better one that we had before where we both make positive changes emotionally, mentally and physically. I am making positive changes right now. I doubt my wife is making any, but maybe she will at some point. I can only wait and hope.

" I doubt my wife is making any, but maybe she will at some point. I can only wait and hope."

This is more control on your part. She is changing and has changed. Even if they are changes you don't believe in, they are changes that are important to her. You have to respect that. And if you want to salvage your R, you have to learn about them. Say, for example, she's going out every night. Maybe she didn't get a chance to do that before and now wants to give it a go. Maybe she never went to the gym before but now works out like crazy. That's become a part of her. Acceptance of the positive behavior, not the bad will help you to see the kind of woman she feels she wants to be.

This has nothing to do with you. This is what's important to her.

MrBond,
I haven't talked to her in 7 months because there is a restraining order in place that will expire in January unless she extends it. I have no clue what she is doing and I think this is going to be a long road, probably 5 years just like yours.

My ex divorced me. I was unable to save my M even though i tried. Guess I'm a failure in all aspects?

Rick you are not a failure.
The divorce process in America moves faster than the midlife crisis so it's impossible to save a marriage. If it took 10 years to get divorced like in the Philippines and marriage counseling was mandatory then nobody would get divorced.
What is your story? Did you give up after getting divorced? Did you find a girlfriend?

I didn't like conflict. So I would store my resentments in my angry tank. Later I would go into a rage and scream and yell. There is more to my story. Yes last year I married a wonderful lady. Exw didn't show any indication to even want to communicate. Haven't communicated in almost 5 years.

I will advice you to listen to the folks posting to you. I will encourage you to seek counseling for yourself.

If you don't make some changes you will bring you baggage to the next relationship. Keep posting

Originally Posted By: Rick1963

Exw didn't show any indication to even want to communicate.
Haven't communicated in almost 5 years.

Yeah Rick left out that she married a HORSE.(A real horse) not a person.

CLD you have some of the best vets on DB posting to you, I know all their stories and they all are successes.

Listen to them is my advice.

Rick,

Did you go into a rage, scream and yell after she filed for divorce or before?
How long did you wait before finding another girlfriend?
Did you recognize it as a midlife crisis right away?

Before she filed. I really didn't argue much during my marriage. I think I got angry where I said hurtful things 4 or 5 times in our 25 years. LIke I said I avoided conflicts. The only way I would tell you how I felt was by en raging myself. My ex started changing in 2009. Way before she filed. Our M died that year.

I met my GF 3 weeks before my D was final. It just happened. By that time I had no online profiles cause I wasn't interested in dating. It just happened by chance. The 1st year was just hanging out it got serious afterwards.

Lol Cadet. She did become seriously involved in the equine world. She spent all her time and money competing state wide.
I had no chance against a real stud.

Cld,

I have read the article and poked around a bit.

In short, I disagree with this individual's approach to MLC.

Two things bother me the most are these two statements:

1-If Your Wife Came From a Troubled Home, It�s Not a Question of IF; it�s Now a Matter of WHEN.

2-TROUBLED CHILDHOODS = TROUBLED MARRIAGES This is not a theory, it�s a fact.

It is not a fact. It is a personal opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

I know many, many people have gone through some really awful childhoods yet maintain long-term marriages that are rock-solid.

Not all women who come from troubled homes will have MLC. Again, it is not scientific fact. It would be reasonable if it were postulated that "some may" go through MLC for a number of factors.

I would be careful of trying to grasp whatever "statistic" or statement as a panacea to your M problems. That is walking on really thin ice right there.

Instead, you really should channel your energies and time into self-introspection on some of the valid complaints your W has made about YOU over the years and work on keeping your side of the street clean. Meaning....make genuine 180's that you can comfortably live with for the rest of your life with, not as a strategic 'tactic' to get W to "snap out of her MLC." You are no angel either. You are not innocent. Look into your own 50% part of the M breakdown.

There is no timetable when it comes to the MLCer. Really.

There is a real possibility that your W may stay stuck on the Mothership for the REST OF her life. Are you going to put your life on hold simply because your W is having too much fun playing Captain Kirk? Do you see how whack that line of thinking is.

Get busy living LIFE.

Life is a large banquet for you to sample out there that would put King Henry VIII to shame. Re-discover Cld. Where's the man that is buried deep inside in there? What makes you fun, interesting and fascinating on the cocktail party circuit that makes people would want to stick around to chat with? Seriously.

Let's get on with the Cld program. Not the MLCer program.

Otherwise, you'll get stuck inside the MLC museum waiting for the paint to dry.

Wonka,
You say that you are a former MLCer.
Can you please honestly tell me more about your childhood?
In particular I would like to know if your parents were divorced and/or liked each other, and if you had any other traumatic experience during childhood.
Usually male MLCers tend to behave like their fathers and women like their mother, can you relate to that?

Error:

Originally Posted By: Wonka

Otherwise, you'll get stuck inside the MLC museum waiting for the paint to dry.

Correction:

Otherwise, you'll get stuck inside the MLC museum watching the paint to dry.

Cld,

I am at work so don't really have time to dig through the archives.

Some of my own MLC experience can be found through this thread title:

A Journey Into the MLC Mind

Please keep in mind, this is my OWN MLC. Not all two MLCeers are alike.

Oh and you might want to take some dramamine for motion sickness before reading the thread because the U.S.S. Wonkie Enterprise can get quite bumpy.

Cld,

You asked this question:

Originally Posted By: Cld

Usually male MLCers tend to behave like their fathers and women like their mother, can you relate to that?

Nope. I did not behave like either one of my parents.

I behaved like a scared 11-year old with OW. You will learn more by reading through archived thread.

Lest the name throws you off...I am a female.

sashaying across the stage in my bright neon lime green boa alongside with Mach in a pink tutu

Originally Posted By: Wonka

Some of my own MLC experience can be found through this thread title:

A Journey Into the MLC Mind

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...696#Post2420696

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...552#Post2429552

Originally Posted By: Wonka

sashaying across the stage in my bright neon lime green boa alongside with Mach in a pink tutu

I feel like I have to stick up for my buddy Mach. He doesn't wear a pink tutu, Eric does.

Originally Posted By: Drew

Originally Posted By: Wonka

sashaying across the stage in my bright neon lime green boa alongside with Mach in a pink tutu

I feel like I have to stick up for my buddy Mach. He doesn't wear a pink tutu, Eric does.

I can confirm this.

Originally Posted By: Wonka

Let's get on with the Cld program. Not the MLCer program.

Cld,

Did you totally ignore this???

Wonka gave you some wonderful advice, similar to nearly everyone else here. You keep wanting to understand MLC which is a cheeseless tunnel. But nearly every time someone suggests working on you, you deflect.

Again, if something stings, there's probably a reason.

Work on you.

Too many words, Cat?

Originally Posted By: Drew

Originally Posted By: Wonka

sashaying across the stage in my bright neon lime green boa alongside with Mach in a pink tutu

I feel like I have to stick up for my buddy Mach. He doesn't wear a pink tutu, Eric does.

Doh.

This is what happens when there are far too many secure, confident manly-man posters wearing different colored tutus here!

Let me walk this back....just to confirm.

Eric's pink
Mach's purple
Drew's green

Gotcha. No problem. Really need to get my men friends in tutus straight!

Maybe still experiencing the tail end of my MLC...

Nah!

Hey G! How are you doin' girlfriend?!!

Drew,

I am reading Wonka's story and that's what I have found, she wrote this:

"Please keep in mind that during this process, we do not have conscious awareness that all of this is directly tied to our unresolved issues in childhood/young adult years. We just don't know and are not able to connect our dots because we don't think rationally at all. So to expect us to have some recognition of this correlation is a fallacy. We are too busy running away from ourselves. To have the time for reflection and introspection is not high on our agenda."

Wonka does recognize here that is all directly tied to childhood unresolved issues.
Drew, I am working on myself, don't worry, but we all also need to realize that the MLC is the result of a trouble childhood where the parents divorced, didn't like each other and badmouthed each other in front of the children.

Originally Posted By: Cld

we all also need to realize that the MLC is the result of a trouble childhood where the parents divorced, didn't like each other and badmouthed each other in front of the children.

Wow. MLC solved.

Originally Posted By: Cld

Drew, I am working on myself, don't worry

How? Details please. That will be much more productive work here then trying to figure out MLC.

But that's just my opinion. Oh wait, and Wonka's. And Mach's. And ..... yeah, pretty much everyone else's.

But if you feel your STBXW's MLC is 100% responsible for the failure of your marriage, I guess just wait it out.

Originally Posted By: Drew

Too many words, Cat?

Drew,

I believe you have written more words in the last two days than in your entire time here.

Would really love you to take up the invite though...

Yup, I know...

Drew,

I am exercising constantly, eating healthy food, doing yoga, meditation. I meet with friends regularly and talk to partners about business.
My goal is to be 100% happy on my own just in case she doesn't come back.
I am not going to put another woman in front of my children, instead I am going to have a relationship with my children.
My main goal right now is to make enough money so that they continue to run my business when they grow up if they wish to do so or go to college.

Originally Posted By: Cld

I am not going to put another woman in front of my children

Um, I'm pretty sure NOBODY here is suggesting that.

You usually bring it up when somebody suggests GAL.

Have you read the books?

Cld,

For the record, I had an MLC and my parents were not divorced.

Wonka and I had related our MLC's to other posters at times and I think some is in my old stuff under Mirage/Spirit.

I live my life going forward so I don't ever look back at old posts so I don't know what all is there. I'm here to help where I can and hopefully provide some insight to the new people here.

I can relate to where you are. It seems you only want to hear what you want to hear. The beginning of this is tough and a shock to the system. Hopefully you will move your journey forward.

Mirage

Originally Posted By: Wonka

sashaying across the stage in my bright neon lime green boa alongside with Mach in a pink tutu

Pink, Purple....

Its all good....: )

How ya doin Wonka ??

Mirage,

I think I had a midlife crisis as well in the past 5 years and my parents aren't divorced either, they just fought a lot when I was a child and that deeply affected my childhood.
Childhood does matter a lot, that's also why psychologists want to know about it all the time.
My childhood right now is affecting my behavior as well, I can say that without any problems. It's just hard sometimes to fight against the machine that takes over the body, but I am trying.

Cld,

Glad you found my threads informative.

Originally Posted By: Cld

Drew, I am working on myself, don't worry, but we all also need to realize that the MLC is the result of a trouble childhood where the parents divorced, didn't like each other and badmouthed each other in front of the children.

It is not true at all. There are MANY, MANY people who have troubled childhoods, divorced parents, who have come out really well adjusted and happily married. I want to stress and disabuse you of hanging on to this too tightly.

Some people do fall into the MLC rabbit hole and others do not. Why's that? That is the BIG mystery that only God/Universe can answer. You may not know this or not. I serve on a board of a domestic violence organization. You would think that ALL battered women/men are doomed with MLC if you heard their stories. BUT somehow many of them survived some really awful experiences to come out to the other end with happy, intact families and marriages of their own.

In my case, my childhood was happy. The only wrinkle was that my parents divorced and they NEVER ever bad mouthed each other in front of me. Never once did Dad ever bash my mother nor did my mother bash my Dad to me. EVER. It was kept all behind scenes. It is the ADULTS who did stupid stuff behind the scenes that affected me.

My father had an affair which hurt my stepmother deeply. My mother's father was a very stern old school Marine. His way of handling the situation was banning Dad from having contact with my stepmother. Dad, stupidly and rashly as a young man, then retailed by not allowing them to see me. It caused a deep estrangement from the family that I loved for a several years. As a 11-year old, I had no voice in the process. In hindsight, it emotionally stunted me that I never really fully comprehended or understood UNTIL I came to the DB site.

I am the lucky few recovered MLCers. I thank my lucky stars every SINGLE day that I did the hard work here trying to understand my own MLC and coming to terms with it. Sometimes I still play the "what if" game of not being hit with the MLC. I never, EVER once asked for it nor wish it on anyone.

It was truly as if someone kidnapped me and put me down on an alien planet. I no inkling of it coming for me or anticipate it. Nada. Zilch.

There is no logic to an illogical mind with illogical reasoning which is illogical to begin with. You will drive yourself nuts trying to figure out the MLC mind. It's about as much fun as trying to find the ends of a speghetti in a large messy marinara filled speghetti bowl. There's no rhyme or reason to this process at all.

Cld, I think you really should stop asking posters a million questions about their spouses's FOO and put the FOCUS squarely on yourself. That is the only thing you can control and IS within your control.

I mean...there is absolutely nothing you can do about their childhoods. It is way pass the past stage. We all realize that at some level MLCers are emotionally stunted at some level.

Realization is one part of the equation. Realization is not going to help you or the MLCer.

What would help is turning to action-oriented approach to YOURSELF.

1-Take care of yourself. Exercise, or whatever floats your boat
2-Validate W (I hope you've read the Validation Cheat Sheet)
3-Focus on yourself and the kids
4-Stop looking in W's direction for that will do no one any good
5-Accept that W is on her own journey. Let Go, Let God
6-There is no quick fix or magic bullets here

Does someone spend their energy trying to understand why a person is in the hospital deep in a long-term coma and staring down at the body trying to find a magic bullet to get him/her out of coma?

No.

Your W is in a long-term MLC coma. She's gone.

Yet you stand still looking down at W's body while neglecting your own life and needs.

That is not a fun way to live life.

Originally Posted By: Mach1

Originally Posted By: Wonka

sashaying across the stage in my bright neon lime green boa alongside with Mach in a pink tutu

Pink, Purple....

Its all good....: )

How ya doin Wonka ??

Hey Mach! I am good....life's good. On the upswing....I am thisclosetopeace.

How about you, my friend?

Cld,

Something I see you asking a lot of posters is if they are willing to wait the prescribed 2-5 years for their spouse to wake up. As well as how long people waited.

In my story, which is like so many others here, the initial MLC started in 1997, with bomb in 1998. Reconciliation occured in 2000. Bomb in 2003. Bomb in 2007. I was done in 2009. My X apologized in 2013. So that timeline, as I don't think he is really done yet...spans the course of 16 years to the apology.

While there were some good years mixed in there, many years where the marriage appeared to be pretty good...I basically spent 11 years waiting for the other shoe to drop and it took 4 years after I moved on for any sort of waking up to occur.

Sad when you think about it, however for me, it was exactly what needed to happen. My life would not be what it is now if things had been any different. Which is WONDERFUL.

I read the article you directed Wonka to. I also disagree with what is in there. I guess though, based on those "facts" I should warn my partner that I am most definately going to be starting a MLC at some point. My parents divorced. I am female. I am in perimenopause. I guess I meet the required criteria...

I agree with Wonka...while I understand the need to understand MLC and what is going on, don't let it be your focus. You can learn on the side while you live and laugh and love.

The things you stated to Drew that you are doing are a great start, but what about stuff for fun?

On another note...

Mach, why haven't I seen that tutu?

Eric shared his...:)

"The only wrinkle was that my parents divorced and they NEVER ever bad mouthed each other in front of me. Never once did Dad ever bash my mother nor did my mother bash my Dad to me. EVER. It was kept all behind scenes. It is the ADULTS who did stupid stuff behind the scenes that affected me.

My father had an affair which hurt my stepmother deeply."

Drew, you just proved that what I am saying is right, you were acting like your father during your MLC, please stop ignoring the elephant in the room.
I know that some people who come from broken families have happy marriages but usually because they reflect the behavior of the left behind spouse.
For instance my brother in law, who is happily married, is acting like his father, the left behind spouse that my mother in law divorced. As I said before men tend to act like their fathers and women like their mothers.

Originally Posted By: Cld

"The only wrinkle was that my parents divorced and they NEVER ever bad mouthed each other in front of me. Never once did Dad ever bash my mother nor did my mother bash my Dad to me. EVER. It was kept all behind scenes. It is the ADULTS who did stupid stuff behind the scenes that affected me.

My father had an affair which hurt my stepmother deeply."

Drew, you just proved that what I am saying is right, you were acting like your father during your MLC, please stop ignoring the elephant in the room.

Cld,

Wonka posted that to you, not me. And again, she's a woman.

I meant Wonka, not Drew, sorry*

Originally Posted By: Cld

"The only wrinkle was that my parents divorced and they NEVER ever bad mouthed each other in front of me. Never once did Dad ever bash my mother nor did my mother bash my Dad to me. EVER. It was kept all behind scenes. It is the ADULTS who did stupid stuff behind the scenes that affected me.

My father had an affair which hurt my stepmother deeply."

Drew, you just proved that what I am saying is right, you were acting like your father during your MLC, please stop ignoring the elephant in the room.

I think you meant me, Wonka. I AM NOT MY FATHER, NOR EVER ACTED LIKE HIM. Trust me on this. There is no elephant in the room. Just because you say this doesn't make it true.

I know that some people who come from broken families have happy marriages but usually because they reflect the behavior of the left behind spouse.

HUH...you lost me here. Not following you ^^ at all. Care to elaborate? I do not understand what you are trying to say here. Thanks....

For instance my brother in law, who is happily married, is acting like his father, the left behind spouse that my mother in law divorced. As I said before men tend to act like their fathers and women like their mothers.

That is an over generalization. Not a good way to state your case. It's actually weak. Men and women are not carbon copies of their parents. Do yo act like your own father who is probably a MCP and a misogynist?

Originally Posted By: Cld

Wonka is a woman, but from what I understand she is also a lesbian and she is the "man" in her relationships.

Way to go in offending gay people with the same, old worn-out stereotypes.

You have much to learn.

Stop shooting off your mouth and use your ears more often.

"That is an over generalization. Not a good way to state your case. It's actually weak. Men and women are not carbon copies of their parents. Do yo act like your own father who is probably a MCP and a misogynist?"

Wonka,
as I said before I stop talking when people start calling names.

Originally Posted By: Cld

As I said before men tend to act like their fathers and women like their mothers.

Actually the way we pick our mates is to look at the opposite sexed parent and pick their best traits and the opposite of their worst traits.
So this can end us up being similar to our same sexed parent.

I know I am like my father, but then again my sister is similar to my father too, and not too much like our mother.

Cld it is good you are learning all this stuff because Knowledge is POWER,
when all gets said and done YOU have to keep moving FORWARD,
and not look backwards.

STANDING is not WAITING.

Part of this MLC process for the LBS is to become the best version of ourselves possible.
Because IF our spouses ever wake up we will need to have a new relationship with them.
If we are not that best version of ourselves then
we will not be able to build that new relationship.
Whatever it may be.
You will find that these skills will help you with
your whole life, whether that be work, friends, religion or relationships and marriage.

Do'nt find excuses to avoid it find reasons to embrace it!

Hi Wonka!

Too many men, too many tutu's. I'm guessing since you are a lesbian and you must be the "man" in the relationship, you must wear a multi-colored tutu.....

Hey Cat! How are you, girl!

Cld, you have no freakin' idea how many GOLD STAR vets you've attracted to your thread. And you still strike back at us like an old junkyard dog. Keep this up and you will lose some really good people who have given their time (and hearts) to you. They are not doing this because they are just messing with you, but rather to pass on their wisdom and guide you based on their own experiences (and some old war scars) BECAUSE they care about newbies who are really hurting and confused.

Humility please. And respect the 'elders' too.

Originally Posted By: Cld

"That is an over generalization. Not a good way to state your case. It's actually weak. Men and women are not carbon copies of their parents. Do yo act like your own father who is probably a MCP and a misogynist?"

Wonka,
as I said before I stop talking when people start calling names.

I rest my case.

Originally Posted By: Cld

Drew, you just proved that what I am saying is right, you were acting like your father during your MLC, please stop ignoring the elephant in the room.

Again, generalizations....dangerous.

I rest my case.

Clr,

I'll ask again - have you read DB or DR?

Originally Posted By: Wonka

Hey Mach! I am good....life's good. On the upswing....I am thisclosetopeace.

How about you, my friend?

I am finer than Frog Hair...

Not sure that you are gonna get anyclosertopeace in here...

This guy doesn't like the Womens too much, and apparently, the only thing more than that, are the Gays...

If you need me....holla : )

Cat...you didn't get the pics ????

Cld,

Because you are still a fairly new poster, I suggest that you start reading and listening to what the posters are posting to you. I know, you are reading a lot of stuff and looking at the statistics, but guess what? Those statistics are just numbers and they aren't going to help you w/moving forward w/your life while leaving the door ajar. Your focus has to be on you, your business and your children for now. You didn't break her, therefore you can't fix her.

I also suggest that you stop focusing on the time limit for a crisis. What has been put in print over the years is just a guess estimate. It can be shorter or it can be longer...but the bottom line is this...you don't control the length of time it will take someone to work through their crisis. You are an uninvited guest to the MLC party and have no control over how long, how short or how she's going to behave towards you, family, friends, etc. It's all about her and her alone and what she needs to do to work through her crisis on her time, not yours.

Changes - if you are doing the hard, necessary work and that includes any changes that you want to make to yourself, then those changes must become permanent. If you are only making changes to get your wife to notice or thinking it will draw her back, she will know what you are up to.

Each and every person goes through a life's transition. We do so around the ages of 20, 30, 40, etc. For some, it's a blip on the radar and for those who haven't completed the life transitions and have poor coping skills, they may end up having a MLC. Coping skills plays a part in the MLC just as depression is the main ingredient throughout the crisis.

Now about dating a woman...I have not seen anyone advise you to do that...evidently someone in your life has done so...but the people here have not, so there is no need to continue to bring that subject up. Some may suggest that in years to come, you may change your mind, but no one has said to date women at this time. Let's stick to trying to keep your focus on you and the hard, necessary work you need to do in order to be the man your wife would be a fool to leave behind.

Also, please start a new thread. I have tripped your reply/posting count to 101.

Originally Posted By: Cld

Irish,

the grass is not greener on the other side of the pond, it's only greener where we water it. I am very confident that I will reconcile with my ex wife someday, and I will be here to prove it to you.
I am already writing a book called "How I turned my marriage around".
I am not going to throw away a 10 year relationship with two children and start from scratch especially after I learned that midlife crises are temporary.
Watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHvV55IpAxk

I carried this over as not to Hijack.

The title of this book you are writing indicateS an action. "How I Turned My Marriage Around" What ACTIONS are YOU taking to turn your marriage around? What will you write in this book about what you did? Watching youtube videos on MLC is not an action that turns a marriage around. Waiting the prescribed time for your wife to come out of her MLC is not an action, that is an inaction.

Let's say, for the sake of argument your W is in a MLC (because I honestly don't believe she is in one, but that is neither here nor there). You say the MLC is temporary and you won't throw away a 10 year marriage for something temporary. She may come out of it a changed, healed woman ready to start the next stage of her life. What do you have to offer for that next stage of life? What changes would you have made to become a better husband?

You deflect any and all questions regarding inner work and the changes you need to make and what your action plan is to become a better person and a partner. A stand-up guy, one only a fool would leave, is one who recognizes his mistakes what he could do better, and shows ACTION.

Originally Posted By: Wonka

Hey Cat! How are you, girl!

Hey Wonka! I'm doing great. Having a bit of fun lately. Saw you are doing pretty great yourself. Glad to hear it.

CLD,

You know, it's funny...

Wonka and I have had our, shall we say differences, over the years...

One thing I think I can safely say that we do have for each other is a healthy respect.

One that exists because we can recognize that each of us has our own experience that individually don't mean much to anyone but ourselves, but collectivly, they brought us here to learn, heal, and help others...

And because we have a respect for this board that helped us both so much...

I would love to see you develop that type of a respect for this place and the people that post here.

One thing I do want to do is quickly correct a few of your statistics...

More for other people who may read this than for you...

The current divorce rate in America is 53 percent. Reported in 2011.

In Belgium it is 71 percent. Reported in 2010.

In the UK it is 47 percent. Reported in 2009.

In Italy it is 25 percent (as you stated.) Reported in 2010.

The caveat of that is that in 2015 the divorce laws in Italy changed. Instead of taking 3-5 years for a divorce to become legal, which caused many Italians to set up residence in countries were the divorce process was much shorter and return to Italy later, it NOW only takes 6 months to a year to obtain a divorce in Italy. (Comparable to divorce in the US.) I will be interested to see what happens to the 25 percent divorce rate there.

In the Phillipines, where you stated it takes 10 years to get divorced, divorce is NOT EVEN LEGAL.

The options that people there have is to remain in bad marriages, live apart "in sin," or try to get an annulment through the Church which is a very dauntingly expensive task for people in one of the poorest countries in the world.

I hope for your sake you take Job's, and other's advice...

I've got nothing else...

Mach, send them again!:)

New Thread:

My Loving Wife Turned Against Me One Day 3