I think my husband is going through a MLC. He admits he "is going through something, maybe a MLC" and he is acting totally out of character. Here is a link to my original thread, for more info:
first thred At first it started with him becoming distant, going to the gym loads, then came the lies, accusations and loss of intimacy. I took it really badly, I never thought we would have those kind of problems, not sure if I was naive or arrogant or both. I also suspect that maybe there is an emotional affair of some kind, possibly even a PA.
Since finding this wonderful site and reading more of the articles and posts I changed my mindset and I am not as angry with him any longer, I realised that he is not doing any of this on purpose so I should be more accepting and forgiving. But it is so hard, I suffer from mental health issues myself, have no family network in the country, and I have slowly alienated myself from friends.
My husband's MLC brought to the surface loads of our real issues, like lack of communication, but also he is bombarding me with "issues" that are nothing more than everyday reality.Even though I can cope with most of those little insults, sometimes I struggle.
Since when this whole mess started I've been on a roller coaster, some days feeling optimistic, some days feeling angry and occasionally feeling trapped - like I'm only staying for the sake of the kids. Generally speaking I think in a more positive light now (thanks to all the wonderful advice here). I am very insecure about myself though, and in a way this made things a million times worse. Especially since we stopped being intimate I feel rejected, and this is one of the areas that I struggle the most with. I don't know how to approach it. I have been trying to give him space, being supportive, detach and get on with my life. We did discuss the issue a few weeks ago, and according to him it was the only thing that brought us close as a couple, and he wanted us to communicate in different ways. I disagreed but it is not like I can force him is it? not without feeling even worse about it (like he is doing me a favour or something).
Over the last few days he has been more affectionate, more hugs and kisses, but I'm not sure if it is in a sexual way or just affectionate. or if it matters what it is. Or if I should be encouraging it. We had a brief chat over breakfast, where he asked me if I'm ok (I have not initiated any relationship talks lately) and to promise him that I would tell him if anything bothered me. obviously I said that I was ok, I', trying to appear like I'm GAL and be a more positive person to be around. Actually I am GAL thanks to this, so in a way there is a possibility that through all this pain and agony one day we can be stronger and happier.
Sorry for the long post, I used to keep a collection of letters that I wrote for him as a method to vent but I find the process makes ma angry, and I don't want to be angry with him. He is (used to be?) an amazing person, I think he deserves to be happy, and even though he went completely the wrong way about reaching out, I do love him.
Welcome to this board.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmMichele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmKeep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thank you so much for your reply and all the useful information Cadet!
My books have arrived and I have A LOT of reading to do.
Unfortunately we had some terrible news yesterday, my mother in law was just diagnosed with ovarian cancel, and we are both socked. I want to help and support him, but it is so hard to know what he needs. I wish I knew how to help, I wish I could make it all better.
I wish none of this ever happened.
I wish I knew how to help, I wish I could make it all better.
Most of us FIXERS think this.
Best way to make it better is to take a step backwards and not try to FIX it.
You are absolutely right Cadet. Once again I wanted to help, without even considering that it might not be what he actually needs or wants.
Over the last few weeks I've neglected my studies and I need to get back to it as soon as possible or I will not graduate in July. My head is all over the place, I really need a plan of action! As well as "Divorce Busting" I got Michele's "Fire your shrink" book, as I think I need so much help in many areas. My procrastination is legendary and one of the things that bother my husband the most.
This extract from the
MLC Signs really hit home.
Depression sign #17: MOST ML'ERS ARE ABUSIVE
This is one of the most serious signs of depression - abuse.
Here I will focus on emotional abuse rather than physical abuse because I feel it is more prevalent in the ML'ers journey.
Emotional abuse can be divided into various categories:
A. Withholding: By withholding love, affection, accolades, sex, children, communication, etc.. the Ml'er is saying I have something you want and I can withhold it from you. The Ml'er can take this even a step further by withholding love and affection from you and then giving it to someone else.
B. Discounting: By discounting the LBS' perceptions, the Ml'er is saying I can point out your uselessness.
C. Accusing and blaming: By blaming the LBS, the Ml'er is saying the LBS is to blame for their pain no matter what they do to you so they don't have to stop or be accountable.
D. Judging and criticizing: By judging the LBS, the Ml'er is saying to the LBS that when I tell you that something is wrong with your thoughts and actions, I put myself in charge of you.
E. Threatening: This a way for the ML'er to have control over the LBS to imply that they will take away something valuable to them, such as family life, financial stability, home, etc....
F. Name Calling: By calling names, the Ml'er is saying to the LBS that they are worthless and don't exist.
G. Denial: By denying what they are doing to you, the Ml'er can keep everything like it is and not take any responsibility for their behavior.
H. Abusive anger: By being extremely angry and raging, the Ml'er is saying as long as I am scary I can have my way. If someone told me a couple of months ago that my husband would be doing any of those I would not believe them. How things chance... We can "tick off" almost half of the list, and yet he claims (believes) that he doesn't want to hurt me
describes my H to a T. I have his vday card from a month before he dropped the bomb..It shocks me...all lovey dovey..them boom a month later. This mlc is just madness.
This^^ (meaning MLC signs, Esame's H not wanting to "hurt" her, and tfish's Vday card ). Got all that, too. I can check off A,B,C,D most times and have seen E,G,and H pop up. Right now by being cheerful, helpful, and understanding (and encouraging him to talk when he starts to bring up hopes or fears)and by not really getting into big R talks, I'm just getting a lot of "I'm sorry".
describes my H to a T. I have his vday card from a month before he dropped the bomb..It shocks me...all lovey dovey..them boom a month later. This mlc is just madness.
Total madness, you are right! We had a lovely Christmas with his family, and I was really happy, and then within a few weeks he was distant and hating everything I do.
This^^ (meaning MLC signs, Esame's H not wanting to "hurt" her, and tfish's Vday card ). Got all that, too. I can check off A,B,C,D most times and have seen E,G,and H pop up. Right now by being cheerful, helpful, and understanding (and encouraging him to talk when he starts to bring up hopes or fears)and by not really getting into big R talks, I'm just getting a lot of "I'm sorry".
That is progress though, isn't it? I don't see my husband offering any apologies any time soon!
ding ding ding, another winner in the MLC sweepstakes here
thanks for posting this - a good reminder xoxoxo
This^^ (meaning MLC signs, Esame's H not wanting to "hurt" her, and tfish's Vday card ). Got all that, too. I can check off A,B,C,D most times and have seen E,G,and H pop up. Right now by being cheerful, helpful, and understanding (and encouraging him to talk when he starts to bring up hopes or fears)and by not really getting into big R talks, I'm just getting a lot of "I'm sorry".
That is progress though, isn't it? I don't see my husband offering any apologies any time soon!
I don't know. He dropped the bomb 2 weeks after our daughter got married in our back yard. He has apologized since the beginning, tried to go out of his way to appear helpful and nice, and over-reacts when he thinks he has physically hurt me (accidently dropped a fence rail and it bounced onto my foot). He seems very concerned with appearing to be a "bad guy", but then does things that hurt emotionally with no regard at all. Still wants to be my "friend" when HE wants do things. I do see progress (baby steps) in some areas, but the "I'm sorry" stuff has been there since almost day one. Just words and guilt, but they have increased.
I don't know. He dropped the bomb 2 weeks after our daughter got married in our back yard. He has apologized since the beginning, tried to go out of his way to appear helpful and nice, and over-reacts when he thinks he has physically hurt me (accidently dropped a fence rail and it bounced onto my foot). He seems very concerned with appearing to be a "bad guy", but then does things that hurt emotionally with no regard at all. Still wants to be my "friend" when HE wants do things. I do see progress (baby steps) in some areas, but the "I'm sorry" stuff has been there since almost day one. Just words and guilt, but they have increased.
He sounds torn and hurt by his own actions, I guess if it was me having a MLC I would be behaving in a similar manner. There is an article on the main page here called "He must be teething" and it helped me with my mindset. I treat my husband's actions in he same way I treated the kids when they were teething: justify all the grumpiness and tantrums as part of the process.
I am aware that every situation is different obviously. And you have been going through it for a lot longer than me.
ding ding ding, another winner in the MLC sweepstakes here
thanks for posting this - a good reminder xoxoxo
Do we win anything for our trouble? Other than the heartache, insecurity, loss of the future we had dreamt and planned etc? No prize? nothing?
The last couple of days have been horrible. Since his mum was diagnosed with ovarian cancer all I want to do is try to be there for him but in some ways I feel like I don't have the right to. Stupid way of thinking, I know. I'm very close to his mum, but obviously he is the one that suffers the most here.
I'm trying to support MIL as much as possible, and be there for him too if I can. MIL has been helping me deal with this madness before she was diagnosed so now I feel guilty for involving her and upsetting her with our marital issues.
We are waiting for the final results on Monday, I pray that her prognosis is good.
Esame - I am so sorry. Your MIL is in my thoughts. Try to get some rest.
Esame,
I'm so sorry to read about your MIL. Support her as much as possible. She's going to need all of the prayers, support and love that all of you can give her at this time. Her battle will not be an easy one.
Keeping you and your family in my thoughts and prayers!
Thank you for the replies and support. Things have turned worse, MIL had her full report from the hospital and there is a metastasis on her kidney. I want to remain optimistic, and try to stay positive on the phone calls with her, but I feel like I should be there. I'm going to wait for the operation schedule and see if there is any way the kids can get time off school so we can visit.
I am also struggling on the relationship level, as I don't know where I stand or how I should be acting, what I should be doing. He is nice, has been nice for days even before the diagnosis, but we are still distant. I cannot describe it, we are together but at the same time we are miles apart. We are still not sleeping together (I still don't understand why!) and I miss the closeness and even the comfort.
I thought I was in limbo before, but I think now it is hell. Or limbo with added worry, feeling of guilt, being helpless and feeling generally low. Unhappy. And feeling so selfish to be thinking about myself and relationship when my poor MIL is going through something like this. How did we end up here, a few months ago I was happy.
Sorry to hear about your MIL. Keeping her and your family in my prayers.
Sorry to hear about your MIL. Keeping her and your family in my prayers.
Thank you so much.
It's been a few hard days again, MIL sent us a copy of her report and there are two metastases, one in her kidney and one in her liver. I still have faith in her, and I pray that everything will go well. It seems the liver metastasis is a game changer, but I don't want to dwell on that. H is optimistic too and so is his dad.
I was very angry and upset the other night, he told me that he was going to his mum for 11 days and I insisted that it should be longer. He snapped and said "what is it to you" and I burst in tears as I love his mum and I already feel the issues among us impact on how much I can say to him. It's hard to explain, I know she is like a mum to me, but while he is rejecting our marriage I feel like a fraud being upset about her. Crazy thinking, I know.
I want to talk to him, but I don't know if I should, or what to say. He doesn't need any more fries and upset, I don't want to be insensitive or selfish. I think that EVERYTHING I'm doing at the moment is wrong.
I struggle to concentrate so I'm really behind with my reading. I would normally have finished Michele's books by now, but my head is simply all over the place.
Esame,
I'm so sorry to hear the news about your MIL. She's got a huge battle on her hands and she needs all of the love and support of her family and friends right now.
I might be wrong to say this, the focus needs to be on her and your h needs to put his entire focus there. You will get your opportunity to speak w/your h in a bit...but remember, the more you try to reason w/him, the harder and faster he's going to pull away and yes, that much more determined to move forward w/a possible divorce. The less you say to him about the relationship, the better.
The only topics of conversation that I would have w/him are about his mother and father and how they are holding up and any financial issues that you have. Keep the topics on safe subjects.
Please take care of yourself. Your support and love means a great deal to your MIL and she's going to need you in the days ahead.
Thank you for your reply job, I totally agree with your advice. My MIL is the absolute priority now, I only worry that with our relationship being so rocky something so big could break us. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I even though I have not spoken with my H for the relationship at all, I was really tempted to do so. As Cadet said in another post of mine, I'm a "fixer" and I find it hard not to try to make everything right.
In all fairness he has been good to me and the kids lately, and I guess if I was not so worried about the lack of intimacy I could reassure myself a bit more. I just need to re-read all the posts and try to get my head straight so I can finish the books. Also I need to keep reminding myself that after the first few weeks of the issues surfacing he agreed that divorce was not what he wanted, just a little space.
We agreed that depending on MIL's treatment plan and the kids' schools I will visit her and I will spend time with her, which I am happy about. Other than that, all I can do is call her and try to be as supportive as possible. I even lied to her about my relationship with H, I said all is good, things are all rosy among us.
Sweetie I think we're winning the gift of time so that we can step back and work on ourselves.
Some days this feels like a booby prize. Other days it's not so bad.
xoxoxo
I'm very sorry to read about your MIL. Keeping all of you in my prayers xoxoxo
Thank you for your kind words bttrfly 🌸.
H cooked for us yesterday, and we had as lovely an afternoon as one can expect with the shadow of MIL's illness over us. We haven't told the kids yet, I have absolutely no clue on how to approach it. She is seeing the oncologist today, so we should have some more information soon.
I have made no progress with my reading - anything not MIL related feels superficial at the moment. I have a meeting at my university on Wednesday to discuss how I can complete my work as soon as possible so that I can be with MIL whenever she needs me.
Fed up tonight and I don't even know why. I'm tired of walking on eggshells, I'm tired of watching every word I say, I'm tired of pretending I'm ok when all I want to do is curl in a ball and cry for days. I'm tired of doing things that are against my instincts and I worst of all, I feel so guilty for feeling tired.
This really [censored], it really, really [censored]...
It's okay to curl up in a ball and cry. You are human and you've got a lot of pent up anger, hurt and frustration going on. Get a pillow and beat the stuffings out of it. Take a long walk, get in the car and drive somewhere and scream until you can't scream any longer. Do you have a flower bed? If so, get out there and pull those weeds. Take that frustration and apply it to something you've dreaded doing. Each and every time you recover from this type of situation, you'll become stronger and stronger. Feel those feels, allow them to wash over you and then release them. It's okay!
Again, you are only human and we can only shoulder so much and then we have to blow that steam off. Come here to vent. It's a safe place to do so.
Thank you so much for this job, such a insightful reply.
I didn't think it was ok to feel that way, I just felt guilty (and selfish), but today is a new day. H was quite nice about it, asked what is wrong but I didn't want to engage in a chat about us or our relationship so I said that "I was just feeling moody, I'd be ok tomorrow". He was on his way to bed and initially he went up, but then he returned and hugged me which was sweet. And clearly I'm a sucker for the crumbs of affection he gives at the moment.
I'm in work today and I have a long drive there, so I can have some "me time" (with three kids and a MLCer my "me time" is still very limited) so looking forward to that. And then H is going to his mum to be with her for the operation tomorrow night, and he will stay for 11 days. I'm so happy he will be there with here, and secretly looking forward to having the house to myself and the kids.
Another hard night yesterday, I was angry again, and snapped at H a couple of times, he didn't reply or anything but asked me if I'm OK a few minutes later. I said that there is no reason for me to keep repeating myself, and that he made his decisions about our relationship's dynamics and that I'm just doing as he wants but I don't have to be happy about it. Later watched a movie and then he went to bed. Unfortunately afterwards H heard me crying and came down and hugged me. I felt guilty for feeling better about it, but I'm struggling so much at the moment that I needed that hug.
I was so hurt and angry, I'm so glad I feel a bit more "sane" today. let's hope it lasts.. I hate the roller coaster. I need to find a way of feeling more empowered. I know I'm doing things for the kids sake, not because it is what he wants. But down deep inside I get so angry that he benefits from this arrangement. I'm trying to understand what he is going through, and I'm trying to be forgiving. It is a little hard though when someone you love hurts you so much, isn't it?
MIL had her operation today, the results are not as good as the doctor expected but we are going to have to wait for a week for the biopsy. H is ok, I think he is coping amazingly well. He has been texting me regular updates, letting me know what's happening at every stage. I'm grateful for his behaviour today, he couldn't do anything more tbh.
I'm keeping your MIL in my thoughts and prayers. Wishing her a speedy recovery from the surgery.
Thank you for your reply job, I appreciate it.
She is doing really well, having a good recovery so far. Hopefully she will be discharged today, so she will be much happier as soon as she is at home. MIL and FIL had ongoing marital problem, but they she stayed with him even though she always made it it sound like she was somehow shortchanged in the whole process. The other day she told me she is happy with all the support he is giving and with everything he is doing for her. They are very different people,must I was happy that she recognised him even so late in their marriage.
MIL even suggested a few weeks ago that the issues H is having could be stemming from his childhood. She thinks all the fighting and hate must have affected him. Of course I told her that they did their best as parents, but down deep inside I agree that this must have been a factor too.
Life is easier with H away, but I'm somehow having one of my "why am I staying in this [censored], I should walk out" crises. I used to get these weekly or so before discovering this forum and Michele's books, but I was doing better. The last week has been so hard in every other aspect though (MIL's health, work, money, university) and I feel so lonely that I wonder how long I can last like this. I love my children so much but how can I stay in this limbo forever? I wish he left and then I could move on. I wish I kicked him out so I moved on. I wish he stopped patronising me so we could really try. I don't know who this person is, but he is hurting me like no one ever before, and I don't know how much of it I can take. I want to move on.
Esame - that is very big of your MIL to see the repercussions of all that fighting on your h. I don't think most parents of MLCers can admit openly to their hand in this mess. And it was not a factor, but the root of all this. Those are formative years for a child in so, so many ways. Those years would have left lots and lots of unresolved issues.
Of course it is normal to question why we are standing through this. Sometimes we forget who our old spouse was. May I suggest that you increase exercise? It really helps calm the mind and fatigue the body. It can be anything: yoga, walking, running, taking up a new sport, etc.
Also, what things are you doing just for you? It can be anything at all. But that's where you start.
HI
It is hard to go through
But this is an important time for the LBS to adjust and go through the grief work in order to really let go
we learn to stand on our own and our kids see it
If you read the posters on here you will notice that almost all the LBS turn out better than before
whether or not the MLCer returns
Hang in
I use to wake up at night scared not knowing if I could do it on my own and I learned to tell myself
It is OK you are doing it already..it seemed to help
Ha who also has a great point..exercise is a great stress reliever
good self care is so important right now
good nutrition, enough rest and sleep, therapy, meditation or spiritual practices
support from other woman, 12 step groups act
Esame - that is very big of your MIL to see the repercussions of all that fighting on your h. I don't think most parents of MLCers can admit openly to their hand in this mess. And it was not a factor, but the root of all this. Those are formative years for a child in so, so many ways. Those years would have left lots and lots of unresolved issues.
She really is amazing about it! She used to speak about how guilty she felt about it for a long time, but of course back then H was a balanced person so I used to admire how well he cope with it.
Of course it is normal to question why we are standing through this. Sometimes we forget who our old spouse was. May I suggest that you increase exercise? It really helps calm the mind and fatigue the body. It can be anything: yoga, walking, running, taking up a new sport, etc.
I don't know if I'm strong enough to allow this to continue I'm afraid. I cry myself to sleep and just wish I could move on. I know that calling it a day will not be easier, but at least then I will be able to grieve properly. I cannot explain it, I feel that this "reconciliation" is an absolute sham, and that if my husband is so revolted by me that he does not want to be intimate, how can I want him back? I shouldn't let my pride get in the way, I know that but the situation is horrible. While I love him he has power over me and hurts me even more.
Also, what things are you doing just for you? It can be anything at all. But that's where you start.
I'm reconnecting with friends and getting the house organised, which helped me mentally. I need to concentrate on my university work too, so that should be my next priority. And when he comes back I will start an exercise class at a nearby gym.
Thank you both for the replies.
Peacetoday Thank you for the advice, especially the 12 steps suggestion. I'm waiting to start IC, but maybe a group will be useful too. Also, I think the problem in my case is not that I worry that I will not be ok without him, it is that I worry that I will go mad if I stay with him. Obviously I worry about the kids, and that's what makes it so bad, I feel trapped. I wrote a letter yesterday and it is different than the first few that I wrote when this mess started. I address them to H but they are not really meant for him. Well I was thinking that maybe this one is. Maybe in a few weeks if there is no improvement I will give it to him.
Had a lovely lunch with my friends and the kids, and spent some time listening to an audiobook whilst tidying up. I found this book calmed me down a little as it brings a Christian perspective into being kinder to my husband (even if he doesn't always deserve it). I found some strength in this, and gave me a reason to continue. Weird isn't it? Where we can find hope.
I'm mentally working on an "action plan" for myself, I'll post it later.
I'm glad you had a lovely lunch w/friends and your children. You sound so much better today. Hope is always around and it has a way of poking its head out when you least expect it.
BTW, how is your MIL doing?
Take care of yourself.
Esame,
It sounds like you are mentally getting yourself into a good place. It takes time (I'm not there yet), but you are off to a good start.
I don't remember if you mentioned it, but if you don't mind, what is your age? You see, I too am going back to school. It is important that I do as my job right now pays very little. This, plus all of the life changes, has me a little...overwhelmed?
You're thoughts here, have been my own (minus the part about the kids...mine are mostly grown):
"The last week has been so hard in every other aspect though (MIL's health, work, money, university) and I feel so lonely that I wonder how long I can last like this. I love my children so much but how can I stay in this limbo forever? I wish he left and then I could move on. I wish I kicked him out so I moved on. I wish he stopped patronising me so we could really try. I don't know who this person is, but he is hurting me like no one ever before, and I don't know how much of it I can take. I want to move on."
My H has been trying so hard to act nice, be a "friend", be helpful, but all only when he wants to and on his terms. It makes me miss him more because I can't fully detach. Just when I think I have, he pops back in as Mr. Nice Guy, or Mr. I Need You. So I get the wishing he'd leave part. Just make up your mind! Otherwise its just torture.
I'm glad you had a lovely lunch w/friends and your children. You sound so much better today. Hope is always around and it has a way of poking its head out when you least expect it.
BTW, how is your MIL doing?
Take care of yourself.
MIL is doing great! Thank you for asking. We are so relieved and hopeful, it seems like it there is a good chance it is category 1 but we will know more on Wednesday. My only concern is that she is doing too much already, she is housework obsessed and struggles to give control to FIL and my husband. I hope she doesn't overdo it, other than that I have every faith in her.
I was surprised with the audiobook for two reasons. Firstly because it doesn't say anything the DB book has not covered already. If anything it is nowhere near as good. But mainly because it helped me reflect on my relationship with my faith. I am Christian but a little estranged from my church, as it was too strict in a way which I thought did not reflect what Christianity stands for. However I used to tell myself that I believe in God and that I loved Jesus and what he represents. But then through this latest book I discovered that I have not applied in my marriage what I (thought) I believed in. I feel that I need to re-visit my beliefs, and maybe even look for a new church.
Esame,
It sounds like you are mentally getting yourself into a good place. It takes time (I'm not there yet), but you are off to a good start.
Ciluzen thank you for your reply. To be honest I don't feel like I'm in a good place, but I feel less angry than yesterday and hopeful that maybe I can remain sane while this crisis unfolds.
I don't remember if you mentioned it, but if you don't mind, what is your age? You see, I too am going back to school. It is important that I do as my job right now pays very little. This, plus all of the life changes, has me a little...overwhelmed?
I'm nearly 39, and extremely overwhelmed too! I managed to complete my assignments last year but I have some observations outstanding (I'm training to become a teacher) which stopped me from graduating in time. It is important that I get on with my work over the next few weeks though, because I am running out of time and my university will not allow me to take another year for the same observations..
My H has been trying so hard to act nice, be a "friend", be helpful, but all only when he wants to and on his terms. It makes me miss him more because I can't fully detach. Just when I think I have, he pops back in as Mr. Nice Guy, or Mr. I Need You. So I get the wishing he'd leave part. Just make up your mind! Otherwise its just torture.
That's exactly what it is, torture! And I genuinely believe that he thinks he IS being the nice guy. It actually hurts more when he is being like that because then I feel that I shouldn't be feeling hurt, and it makes me feel guilty. I was planning to speak to him (obviously when things with MIL improved) but now I'm thinking that I can give him more time, see what happens,
Good morning all,
Trying to catch up with university work today, just had a very positive call from my tutor and I'm keeping busy.
I had an idea whilst reading the "180s that work thread". it might be crazy, and I might not be able to pull it through, BUT could initiating sex be an appropriate 180 for me to try? Sorry if too much information, but we have not been intimate for a few months (for the first time in our 16 years together. He used to always initiate, could it be that he is actually waiting for me to take the first step? I might be wrong, I don't know. Is that even a 180? I would love some feedback as it is such a scary thought for me, especially now after all this time.
I would start out w/a touch on the arm and work up to being intimate. If he flinches or takes your hand away, then you'll know he's not ready. Also, keep in mind, this could look like pursuit and that you are wanting a recommitment to the marriage, but again, that's just my opinion.
If you decide to become intimate, use protection. You do not know who he's been with.
Thank you for your reply job.
Can it still be perceived as me wanting recommitment even though we have agreed that we are staying together and to try to work things out? It is so confusing this reconciliation business, especially when I feel so distant from him.
I was saddened at the thought of needing protection, and then even more saddened when I realised that I could no longer believe with certainty that he has been faithful, even though he claims he has been. He claims that he has spoken with a woman but not being physical. I want to believe him, but we know that words don't mean much in these situations 🙁
If you can remain a friend and not come to expect him to recommit, it might work for a while. But, I can assure you, you will get tired of the "lack" of commitment and will push for more. Can you live w/just having a roll in the hay? Will he respect you more by doing this? These are questions that you need to ask yourself.
I don't call this reconciliation, I call this an attempt to get him to wake up and smell the roses. MLC doesn't work that way. Use protection...it's better to be safe than sorry.
I really don't know job, I feel like I don't know him at all. Then again, probably I don't actually know this person any more, he is definitely not the man I fell in love with. That man would not hurt me, and he used to make me feel loved and secure. At the moment at don't see this new H of mine will ever make me feel the same. It is so hard to compromise, I don't have any answers. Thank you so much for your honesty, and for offering a different perspective.
When I first joined the forum I was not sure if it was a MLC or an emotional affair, or somethings else. Now I am almost 99% certain that it is a MLC and I suspect some sort of an emotional (I hope) affair as well. I find it so bizarre that I have accepted (and maybe even forgiven) the affair, but I think I'm so gobsmacked with the personality transplant he has gone through that in comparison the affair seems the least of our troubles. Obviously I might be in denial, and it might bother me a lot in the future.
I wish I could get him to wake up and scream the roses. I want to scream at him, to say "Look what you are doing to us" but I feel that it would be of no use at all. Since the original "talks" we had, and since reading Michele's work and with the advice here, I have managed to keep my thoughts to myself (most of the time). I have also stopped initiating relationship conversations which is so hard for me to do at the moment. I still don't understand him though. Still, I want to be supportive, I want us both to be happy. Even if it wasn't for MIL being diagnosed in the middle of this I would probably not have done anything to hurt him, I still love him too much. It is just so hard and I worry that I am building a wall to protect me that will not allow him to get through to me even if he tried. I don't know, maybe he is trying and I'm not seeing it. He has been pleasant and sweet but I find it fake and patronising. I don't know if he is fake and patronising though, it might be my mindset that is the problem and not him.
Sorry for the rambling post, it is all so confusing...
Not much to report today. Had a good day at university, got one observation out of the way so that is now the third (5 to go). I doubt they will be arranged in time for graduating in Juky, but as long as I keep on top of my work I am guaranteed to graduate in December. That is my last chance though (the course stops exciting after that, so I can not get qualified). I spoke with my tutor yesterday on the phone and she is supporting me to continue with further study after this course, which is my dream. It feels like I have hit rock bottom in a way, but as long as I don't drown now, there is a good chance that by this time next year I can have my (academic and professional) life back on track, and be achieving something really good.
Tomorrow we are getting MIL's biopsy results. I am praying for her, I hope the news are good. H is still with them fortunately, he has been really supportive and helped his mum and dad a lot. I think being away was good for him too, he seems a little more like his old self.
I got a new exercise DVD, all I need now is the motivation to crack on with it... Wish me luck!
So angry with myself today! Just spoke with H (he called) and stupidly asked what's he doing today (to make conversation) and he said he was visiting a friend that just had a baby, or maybe another friend, and then Insaud "why don't you" and then I paused because I didn't know what to say really, and he jokingly said "don't tell me what to do". Now I usually enjoy jokes, but this was like a slap in the face. I managed to fight the temptation to text him back saying that I was just making conversation, I couldn't care less about what you do in your free time, BUT I'm now stewing in anger on my mistake (and the fact that we cannot even hold a simple conversation without me being hurt). This was entirely self inflicted too, I should have simply kept my distance.
After the earlier call with H I'm still upset. Why is staying so hard. I feel like I'm doing something totally against my instincts, I feel like a hypocrite trying to save a relationship that I want out of. And what annoys me the most is that not only I have to convince myself to stay, I cannot even admit it to him that I am actually doing him a favour. I have to appear happy (and in my eyes submissive), when all I want is to scream at him, take my kids, and go. But my kids wil not benefit from this. And I'm rumbling again. My head is all over the the place again. I think I probably need help, but MIL was my rock in this and no way am I going to even bring anything up to her while her health is suffering. I pretend that everything is ok when we talk, because she needs me more than I need her now.
I think I have to stop talking to him for anything not related to the kids. We spoke a bit more than usual over the last few days, as he was giving me updates on MIL's health etc, but MIL is well enough for me to speak directly to her now. Or I might start being honest, and start texting him every horrible (honest) thought that comes to my head, see how that goes.
I don't know anything any more. MIL and FIL will come to stay with us for a week a few days after H returns, I want everything to be nice for the, when they are here. But after they go I'm not sure what I will do and how I will proceed. I thought I could do it, but it is taking a toll in my mental health. It is a little easier while he is away, but still I don't know how long I can do this for. I think I'm just tired. I don't want to be strong any more, I don't know if I have the energy to to do this alone.
Ok, no point in self pity. Will spend today working on my action plan, and will try to book some counselling ASAP. I was thinking that maybe I'm blowing things out off proportion, I thought he was better the last few days, so why do I let a joke affect me so much? I give him too much power over me, that needs to stop. Re-reading Michele's books too, and trying to work on myself.
I went for the "no contact unless its about the kids" option, and it is going quite well. He called a few times in the morning but I was driving so I couldn't answer, I messaged him to let him know I would call later, but he didn't answer when I did. He called a few minutes ago, asked about my day etc, but I kept it around the kids. I called MIL earlier though to see how she is getting on, and thankfully she is ok.
I visited the charity I will be working with to complete my teaching observations for uni, and it went really well. I felt so motivated and happy to be teaching young people that have been excluded from mainstream education, I think it is the push I need to get back into my course and my studies. In fact I enjoyed today so much that I hope to volunteer for the charity in future projects.
Also I called my friend back home and had a good chat with her, managed to get things off my chest and enjoyed talking to an adult for a change!
I feel a little guilty on the parenting front though. My son caught me crying last night. I thought he was asleep so didn't lock myself in the bathroom as I usually do. I told him it was because of the movie I was watching, and he believed me (I cry a lot at movies), but it is not something I want repeating...
Not sure how I am feeling, still confused, still angry, still unhappy, BUT, I am also a bit more motivated in my work and hopefully that will be a start...
Overall, it sounds like you had a productive and satisfying day. You will discover that NC is actually for you and to help you detach. Keeping to safe topics such as the kids is the way to go.
I'm glad your MIL is doing okay. I hope that she'll take it one day at a time for a while until she's back up on her feet.
I think you will enjoy volunteering for future projects and being around young people helps to keep you motivated as well as enjoying the time you are w/them, as well helping you w/your course and studies.
You can be all three: confused, angry and unhappy, but you know what? You got yourself up today and did a lot of great things. Each day will be easier and the gift of time has a way of making things better and you have a lot to look forward to in the days ahead...keep up the good work!
Thank you for your kind words job, and especially for this:
Each day will be easier and the gift of time has a way of making things better and you have a lot to look forward to in the days ahead...keep up the good work!
I do actually have a lot to look forward to, I just need to keep reminding myself that. The kids are healthy and happy, and I have a great (maybe last) opportunity at university to do really well, to actually make something of my life. I might write it on the board to see it daily. Thank you!
Hi Esame. Just catching up on your sitch. Thanks for stopping by my thread.
I'm glad to hear your MIL is doing well. I know that's a big relief to you.
I wanted to chime in on the "don't tell me what to do" comment from your H. My H would stiffen and I could see his anger simmering just below the surface anytime I told him "you should" or disagreed with something he said or did, even if I was expressing legitimate concern for him. They absolutely do not want to be told what to do, especially by the LBS.
The trick is to get the message across in a way that makes them privately think about what they're doing and lets them think they've changed their mind (if they do) because it was their decision to do so and not because you told them to.
I try to "innocently" plant a seed that relates to the issue but doesn't directly relate to H. Sometimes it germinates, sometimes it doesn't, but at least I don't come across as "Mom" trying to tell him how to live his life.
I think anytime they hear "You should" or "Why don't you ..." they shut you out and don't hear anything that comes after those words.
I'm looking forward to updates on your University work.
Thank you for your reply 2times2many.
Your "seed planting" sounds like a great idea, I might have to start thinking a few things to have on "standby". The NC is working at the moment, even though it is actually more like reduced contact but I don't call or initiate conversations about anything other than the kids, the MIL, and the weather. Safe topics all the way for us.
He called again today, but forgot to wish me happy Mother's Day. I as a little upset but then he texted later to say "Happy Mother's Day by the way :)" which I found a little too friendly, and not affectionate enough but maybe I'm still too needy, who knows. I should concentrate on the fact that he remembered shouldn't I? Part of me wants to be pleased by it, but I don't think it is enough. It is a measly text with a faceless smiley at the end, I don't know. Maybe I should just lower my expectations.
And on the topic of expectations, he is back tomorrow, and I don't know what to expect. During the visit to his parents most days he has been ok, we had a few great days and a couple bad ones. At the beginning I encouraged him to go out and have fun, and lately I've been NC as much as possible. I have not initiated any R talks throughout the trip, and I have tried to be supportive and nice.
I haven't got an exact date since the whole thing started, I think mid January, early Fenruary at the earliest. I know that in MLC terms that is a really short time, and I'm grateful that we have the opportunity to work on ourselves and our M, but I'm not sure if his way of reconciliation is working. I feel that we are drifting further apart every day, and I worry that if there is an OW or an emotional affair happening I'm simply pushing him towards that direction by being so cold and distant.
I am however working on my action plan, on my goals, on my books and catching up with friends even ones that have not returned my calls. I'm trying to give people more of a chance, and I'm trying to not take everything personally. This is huge for me, I would always worry that if someone has not called it meant they didn't care, and I would obsess over it but not call them. Now I just message again, giving people the opportunity to be human!
I'm looking forward to properly starting my placement, watch this space for updates!
Here are a couple of "seed planting" approaches I've used.
There is a guy that used to work in the same business complex we do and he stops by the office now and then to say hi. He was a severe alcoholic and his health was really bad. He stopped by about a month ago, looked good and said he hadn't had a drink in 54 weeks. His name came up while H was here. I told H about the guy's turn-around and said I admired that he had cleaned up his act and had gained a lot of respect for him as a result.
Another is H's best buddy, who is one of the most self-absorbed, controlling people I've ever met. What a story of complete self-destruction his is. Basically, the buddy "fell in love" after divorcing his first wife (I would have left him, too), began living with his new gal, had two children in rapid succession (still unmarried) and everything fell apart (all her fault, of course, if you believe Buddy). Buddy moved out and also lost his job. He recently received a very good job offer in another country but turned it down because he didn't want to leave his kids. I, of course, told H I respected him for putting his kids first.
Just two examples that are unrelated to our sitch, but plant the seed that I respect and admire people who make poor choices and clean up their act and I respect people who don't abandon their obligations but choose to live up to their commitments. Hopefully, H got the message that I don't hold people's past against them.
But, a word of warning. Be very sure that the message you're trying to convey isn't misinterpreted. They do listen (at least, my H does). I told him some time ago that I thought his buddy's Rs failed because his buddy was too controlling. A few months later, I heard my same words parroted back to me almost word for word as if H had come to this conclusion all on his own. H added that he thought he had tried to control me. I had to walk that one back a little and reassure that him that I didn't think he had tried to control me (and he hadn't).
I think it's true that they are watching and they are listening, so be careful what you do and what you say.
I've learned that you really need to have no expectations about hearing from them on special days and if you do, it will sound more like they are fulfilling an obligation than being sincere. On my last birthday, I had a Happy Birthday text when I woke up with a message that he would call later. He never did. It's painful, but it's better if you can just develop a thick outer skin and not expect anything at all from them. Try to do what you can yourself to make your day special and forget about him doing anything along those lines.
My kids live out of state and my friends here were all busy on my birthday last year, so I ordered some flowers and a tin of Popcorn Factory popcorn. I bought a steak and a ready made shrimp cocktail and indulged while watching a movie. Sometimes you have to take the reins and do what you need to do to make your special day special without depending on others ... including H.
I think we all worry that we are pushing them toward the OP by our actions. But how can they realize the OP is not the right choice if they don't experience a R with them? It is one of the most difficult things I've ever done, but I want H to realize that I am the prize and if, under MLC circumstances, he doesn't have the opportunity to make the comparison, how will he see that? He may decide she's the better option, and if so, it's his loss. But if he comes back with questions in his mind about whether he made the right choice??? It stinks, but I don't really see any other path.
You are the better option. Believe it. Be it. And give him time to see it for himself.
xoxoxo
Thank you for your thorough reply and the suggestions 2Times2Many. And thank you especially for this:
You are the better option. Believe it. Be it. And give him time to see it for himself.
xoxoxo
I have put myself down so much over the years, and it has held me back professionally and academically before, that I really need to BE the better option, because I owe it to myself.
H came back today, and he is somehow a little more familiar. He seems a bit more like the person I loved. And I tried to be open minded, and welcoming and nice. And he paid me some compliments and he was physically closer to me. Not as close as I would like, but more than he has been lately. And he was affectionate, and he didn't have that arrogant look that came with his MLC. And he even apologised for not speaking up sooner about his feelings. Not enough, but a little glimmer of hope definitely. Apparently his parents spoke to him a lot while he was there, and maybe they got through to him? I don't know. He wanted us to talk, and we did talk a little before he fell asleep. When he is like this I feel like he is trying for reconciliation and it gives me hope for the future. I didn't do anything drastic, I was just being open and supportive. I do feel like this is a horrible time for him, so I don't want to hurry things, and I certainly don't want him feeling like his parents are twisting his arm. Then again I don't know if anyone can twist his arm about anything at the moment. Still, there have been many positives today, more than any other day since BD and the weeks before.
Esame,
Take the positives and enjoy them. Learn to accept him for who his right not. He's still riding on emotions and while he's acting more like himself, he still has doubts about himself, the relationship and whether or not he wants to remain w/you. Even though his parents may have spoken to him, he's still weighing all of his options.
Esame, you are a wonderful person. You are kind and compassionate and have been a huge support to others on the forum. Please don't put yourself down. You've got a lot to offer the world and you know what? I think you are doing great considering what you are dealing with.
For now, continue as you have been, i.e., a good listener, offer advice when he requests it and just be a friend. Your h has a lot going on and right now, he needs a friend. Keep your expectations as close to zero as you can because you don't want to put any pressure on him right now. He needs to see that you and your home are a safe place to land when he needs support.
Keep up the good work!
Thank you so much for your kind words job.
Things have been up and down over the last few days, I think we are doing really well in the "being good friends" part, but romantically we have big issues. On a VERY positive note H suggested we get some counselling, this is massive for him, he is not a talker. I don't know if he fully understands what counselling is really about, from what he says it sounds like he wants someone t tell him he was right, so maybe I should be doing a lot more affirming towards him?
We are both happy that his parents are coming on Wednesday, I cannot wait to spend some time for MIL. So far all her test have come back clear, so it looks really promising.
I mess up with H when I overthink about our situation, I can see that now. We have a lot of work but I feel since he came back we have made some baby steps in the right direction.
On the university front I had my 4th observantion and my tutor was kind enough to give me a grade 1 which means that for her I'm an outstanding teacher. I know that it is just her being supportive but it meant a lot to me. She actually spent more time discussing how to improve my research skills in order to get accepted in the PHD next year rather than working on my lesson. I think that she wants to help me finish this as soon as possible so I can then concentrate on the next course. Funnily enough, her H is going through a MLC too and we had a lovely chat about it.
I'm visiting the charity today to get some more information about what I will be teaching on Tuesday and then I want to finish with the spring cleaning so it is all ready for my parents in law next week.
Esame,
Your h isn't ready for anything romantically. If you can continue to be a good friend, that will go a long way towards healing. You started out as friends and that's where you have to go back to in order to come forward.
If he wants to go to counseling is he referring to individual or couple counseling/therapy? They say that they want to go to counseling and many of them just go to be going and yes, they are hoping that they get to hear that they were right about everything and that's when they opt to think truly about splitting up the family.
When he does something for you or the family, acknowledge it and thank him. He needs to know that you are listening to him and also are aware of the things he does around the home and w/his family. Romance at this time is not on the table and if he isn't into it, don't attempt to force the issue. Right now, his feelings aren't warm and fuzzy in that department. It's not because of you, but because of him and how he's feeling about himself and the situation, i.e., depression will do this. Don't take it personally. Okay?
I'm glad his parents are coming for a visit and I am also happy to read that his mother is doing well.
Look at you! You got a grade and it stands for an outstanding teacher! That's wonderful! Your tutor sounds wonderful and took the time to discuss how to improve your research skills. She was very impressed by you. I'm sorry her h is going through MLC. It's everywhere these days.
Esame, you are doing well. Don't allow the MLC monster to rock your boat. You are sailing along just fine for now!
Hi Esame,
I agree with Job about the counseling. I know my H needs IC and if he ever sincerely indicates he wants to come home and R, I'd encourage it. But I've been very leery of him doing that while in the fog. I don't think he'd be honest with the IC since he can't really be honest with himself at this point and I fear he'd be seeking nothing more that someone who will tell him he's right. Actually, he did see an IC for a couple of sessions in Part 1 and that is pretty much what happened.
I also wanted to echo Job about the friendship thing. I don't know how your R began, but my H and I started as just friends and it grew from there. I get the distinct impression that in his mind, that is the way for us to R. If you get the impression that your H is looking for friendship and offers nothing more at this point, I'd follow his lead. Start small and build. Keep the expectations near zero.
Thank you for you kind words and encouragement job.
I'm pretty sure he meant couple's counselling, which in all fairness is a huge step for him, not something I would expect him to suggest.
2T thank you for your reply. I am trying to have no expectations and being a friend. In fact I enjoy his friendship, and even though it hurts not being "together" the way I want us to, this is a lot better than I expected.
I am so excited about MIL (and FIL) coming this Wednesday, it will be nice to be with them after all that's happened with MIL's health.
Super excited today as my parents in law are coming. They will stay for 10 days, and I am really looking forward to it!
Also yesterday was my 1st teaching observation at the charity and I loved it. It went really well, students engaged and participated, and *I think* they are going to enjoy working with me.
On the relationship front there is hardly any improvement, but no deterioration either so I suppose that's good? I'm struggling with the lack of romance, but I'm keeping the frustration to myself. I think I'm being supportive but I often worry that I don't fully understand how to make H happy.
Might not be able to post much over the next few days, I plan to spend as much time as possible with MIL. I will catch up with everyone after the in laws go back home.
Enjoy the time you spend w/your inlaws!
Having lovely time with the inlaws, MIL seems to be in good health and is enjoying her time with the grandchildren.
She spoke to me about how worried she is about H, and how she is struggling to understand him. She is so sweet, she said she will always be on my side (I don't believe that but it is good to hear).
I'm not really able to describe emotional state, I'm back on my roller coaster, even though H did nothing wrong. I cannot justify how I'm feeling, I think I'm entering another depression (had mental health issues in the past so I can recognise the signs) I have been referred for counselling but there is a wait.
It feels like there is so much to say, but I don't think I can compose my thoughts in a way that can make sense to others, I hardly make sense to myself at the moment.
Breathe! It sounds like you may have some anxiety going on. Did anything in particular happen to bring this on? Maybe the chats w/your MIL are causing you to feel the way that you are.
I'm glad your MIL is in good health and enjoying her time w/the grandchildren.
Take care of yourself.
I'm so glad you are enjoying your time with your in-laws. MIL sounds like such a sweet lady, and what a great DIL to appreciate that in her!
I'm sorry that you are not feeling emotionally well. Job might be on to something about your chats with MIL. Are you afraid of losing her relationship with you (you are so fond of her) if H continues on...or is it much more complex? This roller coaster really has its high peaks and low valleys. I'm hoping your wait for a counselor is short.
I wish I could say something amazing to make you feel better. All I have is that it will pass. It is a roller coaster, a tidal flow, a winding river with spots of rapids. It will even out again soon, just ride it out...and hang on. (((Esame)))
Thank you for your kind replies, I really appreciate it.
A few things have contributed to me feeling so unstable at the moment. Firstly, the fact that we share a bed again (to appear normal to the parents in law) and being so close to him is very difficult for me. He cuddles me and is very affectionate, but I don't know if that helps. I guess I haven't lowered my expectations enough yet.
The other thing that upset me was the realisation that someone from my group of close friends has told my H everything from my past. This was a long time ago, but he dropped hints over the years which didn't make sense at the time but the penny dropped recently. I didn't engage in a conversation about it, if he wants to know something he can ask. I do feel betrayed though and cannot stop wondering if it is something that influenced the way he sees me. And was this the motive behind my "friend" gossiping with my H about me?
And lastly, a comment he made haunts me, even though I did not let him know how much it meant to me. He told me that I chose not to work in the last 2.5 years. So in his eyes I chose to get pregnant even though we were using protection (coil), I chose to have a high risk pregnancy, I chose to have pelvic griddle pain in pregnancy which almost left me disabled, and I chose to send our son who has ASD to a specialist school that has no aftershool club. I didn't say much about that either, but I asked him if he has any idea on how much we would be left with if we paid for childcare for the baby and breakfast clubs while I worked, because maybe he thinks I chose to hide those facts from him. He didn't know. He probably think I enjoy being at home with no adult interaction. It hurts so much to be seen in that way, but I actually choose to not give him any power over me. In September I will increase my working hours, because I cannot rely on that man again, that became clear to me this week. It is not even like he supported me in the past. I thought we are a team, and I thought we decided that I wouldn't work for the foreseeable future.
Anyway, I'll end with a positive. The night after our chat, I was so hurt that I was ready to give him an ultimatum. Ready to ask him to move to the spare room after his parents left. BUT, in the morning I had another teaching observation and then spent some time with my tutor. And a little miracle happened, I found some more strength and decided that I can put up with his antics as long as I ignore what he says. So, I'm going with the "believe nothing they say, and half of what they do" advice. I don't think he meant to hurt me. I shouldn't dwell on it.
MIL is amazing, we have become such good friends, she shares so much with me that I feel blessed to have her support. And I'm becoming closer to my tutor too. I think having strong, mature women in my life motivates me and makes me feel stronger.
Esame, don't put any stock in what he said about you not working.
I got a similar message in the beginning. Prior to BD, I told him I had too much on my plate (and I did) and needed to off-load some of it because I was burning out. He agreed at the time and we discussed how to make that happen by reassigning some of my tasks at the office, etc.
After BD, my desire to lighten the load became "you wanted to quit the business." It didn't matter how many times I tried to point out that was never the case and he knew it, he insisted he was right and I wanted to walk away from the company.
Chalk that stuff up to MLC talk and forget it. He knows the reality of the sitch. He's just looking for excuses and justification. You did exactly the right thing by leaving the duct tape in place and not taking his bait.
As for your "friend," it boggles my mind when so-called "friends" feel perfectly free to dish out every little thing you've ever told them without a thought as to how it will affect you or your situation. So low class! Do you know which "friend" it was? You certainly want to steer clear of her/him!
I'm so glad you're enjoying spending time with your MIL. She sounds like a wise and very pleasant lady.
Thank you for your reply 2T.
You did exactly the right thing by leaving the duct tape in place and not taking his bait.
I need to order duct tape in wholesale quantities, I think I will be needing a lot more of it in future.
I'm not sure if I can ignore what he said, but I will not give him the pleasure of discussing it further. It is such a strange time, I don't understand him at all. I try to be as supportive as possible, but also I have decided that I cannot (and will not) rely on him financially ever again. The last two years are the first time (in our 16 year relationship) that I was not financially independent, and look what happened. I know it is highly unlikely that his MLC was caused directly by my underemployment, but it gave him ammunition and the upper hand.
Do you know which "friend" it was? You certainly want to steer clear of her/him!
I wish I knew who it was, all I know is that it must be someone very close to me as the details they knew were very specific. I did not acknowledge the issue at all, for all he knows I haven't worked out his little hints. I also refuse to investigate who the "friend" in question is. I hope it will all come out one day, until then I will just play dumb. I discussed this with my sister today, and she suggested that I make sure I let all my friends know how well things are working out with H, as this will be the biggest punishment for my "friend" that did her best to destroy my relationship. I'm usually a very private person, but I see her point and will make sure to follow her advice.
I'm so glad you're enjoying spending time with your MIL. She sounds like a wise and very pleasant lady.
You know what, she really is! And funnily enough MIL and I are becoming pretty good friends!
Esame,
Not only do you need a large amount of duct tape, but also several patience shovels will help you along the way. We also have STFU smoothies that Cali began handing out a while ago.
Your "under employment" had absolutely nothing to do w/him going off the MLC rails. Your h has unresolved childhood issues that he needs to face, accept and grow up. Had he had the proper coping skills, he would have been able to sit down and discuss the financial situation w/you instead of seeking the company of someone else and sharing info about you and the marriage w/that same person.
No, Esame, it's not you...it's HIM!
Enjoy the time you spend w/your MIL. Try not to allow the MLC monster into this quality time you have w/her.
STFU Smoothies you say? Yes please! I'll take two.
Thank you again for your insightful reply job, it really helps..
So the parents in law left yesterday, and all I could think of was that I can now go back to sleeping on my own. How terrible is that? How did we come to this?
In reality, I didn't. I slept in our bed because I think it would seem like I don't appreciate what he does and how hard he tries. I don't know how long I can do that for though.
My car broke down which is terrible, but it gave me the kick on the backside I needed to start walking again. And you know what? I LOVE IT! Why did I just hop on the car without a second thought before, even for short trips? I love walking, it has always been what kept me fit,Manc then I just stopped doing it.
Will post more later...
I slept on the sofa last night, I somehow couldn't bring myself to sleep with him in our bed while he is still rejecting me. I think as a one off it wouldn't seem odd, but I should not make a habit of it. I need to stop seeing it as rejection, but I cannot handle it at the moment. I have been thinking about this a lot lately, and I think there are two separate issues. Firstly I cannot understand how could he hug me and give me kisses and back rubs but not take it further. Why does he ask me to stroke his hair or cuddle him? Secondly I feel like the longer it takes the more distant we get. Now I feel self conscious next to him, and every time he touches me I feel like a stranger touches me. I have had issues with previous relationships and abuse as a teenager, and my healthy relationship with H was helping me mentally. Now that he took that away I feel dysfunctional again. I feel like I have to force myself to love him, and at the same time protect myself from the rejection. How can I do that when I'm struggling to get out of bed some mornings. How can I do that at the same time as using every inch of willpower I have to stop crying around the kids or myself to sleep.
Anyway, there is not much I can do about it, I'm just counting the days for the summer holidays so that I can have some real distance between us. I used to think that he might miss me, but I doubt it now. I think I just have to wait for him to come out of his fog, and meanwhile work on myself and my future. This is still a vital year for my university work, I must concentrate on that!
Hi Esame,
I'm sending virtual hugs to you. It's so difficult to handle the mixed signals and try to make sense of it all.
One thing that Job and others talk about frequently is the tendency of MLCers to revert to an earlier time period in theirs lives. When I read your post about your H wanting cuddling or stroking or back rubs, but nothing further, it sounded a lot like a little boy wanting love and affection from Mom. That kind of affection would be appropriate from a parent, but not a romantic kind of affection. Maybe that's what's going on with him??? Maybe that's all he "needs" right now. Maybe you shouldn't look at is as rejection, but as him not "needing" the kind of love you want to give right now and him not being able to give you the kind of love you want/need at this point. I think you can give him that kind of attention if you want, but I don't think you should expect anything much in return. He may simply not be capable of anything more.
As far as feeling dysfunctional and fighting back tears, my advice would be to try to take the focus of what you're yearning for and missing and turn it toward you and what you can do for yourself to get you through this. I know ... easier said than done and it's really, really hard to do. It took me a long time, but I found it helpful to take time every day to think about the many blessings I have in my life and remind myself that I'm a pretty tough cookie and can weather this storm. It also helped once I finally realized that I am not powerless. I may not be able to change him or how he feels about me, but I can sure change me and how I feel about me.
I also wanted to say something about one of your earlier posts regarding not being dependent on H financially. I learned that lesson after my D from XH many years ago. And it's something I preached to my daughter and still do to my granddaughters. I like that attitude and every young woman should be taught to be self-reliant because we never know what life may throw at us.
{{{HUGS}}}
2T
From MWD:
Hi,
Sometimes, when your marriage is on the rocks, you start to wonder how relationship goals that require two people's active participation apply to you.
That's why I decided to write 10 Marriage Saving Strategies You Can Do Alone! for those people who don't have the luxury of their partner's support.
Here are ten goals that you can accomplish yourself!
1. Envision positive outcomes
There is no way that you can begin to accomplish positive change in your marriage if you don't believe it is possible.
Start by imagining what your life will be like when your marriage truly turns a corner.
The more you can picture every detail, the easier it will be to eventually step into this picture at some later date.
2. Act as if you expect positive outcomes
Once you can imagine positive outcomes, reflect on how you will be behaving differently when they happen. Then start doing that right now!
3. Be kind, even if you think your spouse doesn't deserve it
You may be angry, disappointed, or even devastated by your spouse's choices and actions. However, rather than react to unsettling behavior, assume your spouse is lost and confused.
Be patient, kind and steady and your efforts will pay off.
4. Focus on small, positive changes
Don't expect big changes overnight or you will be disappointed and it will make it hard to stay on track.
Imagine the smallest change possible that would signal a shift in how things have been going.
Then focus on that.
5. Promise yourself that you will have a great future, no matter what
You can not control what your spouse does, but you can control what you decide to do with yourself and your children, if you have them.
Take a deep breath and envision how you are going to create a great future, regardless of your spouse's choices.
6. Exercise your worry away
I live in Boulder and the people here take this to heart!
Take a walk, get some exercise to become more fit.
Exercise can be a lifesaver. It helps to assuage worries, feel good about yourself and increase feel-good hormones like endorphins.
Go for it!
7. Do one new thing you enjoy
Don't become stale just because you are having a shaky time in your marriage. Novelty will stimulate your brain and maybe even your heart and help you have a more positive outlook about the future.
8. Make sure you have quality time with your children or other loved ones. Be present.
Many times, when people are teetering on the brink of divorce, their pain makes them become self-absorbed and staying in the moment becomes a challenging task.
You will never be able to do your children's childhood again, so do your best to be with them mentally when you're with them.
9. If you get off track, get back on quickly without self-blame
What separates the winners from the losers is not whether or how many times you get off track, it's how rapidly you get back on track.
If you've veered from the Divorce Busting® plan, hop right back on track without self-recrimination.
10. Do activities that help you rediscover serenity
Meditate, pray, hike in the mountains or watch a sky full of shooting stars.
On a regular basis, do whatever it takes to bring you back to yourself.
You and everyone around will benefit from your peacefulness.
All my best,
Michele
NYGal posted this in Pink's thread and I found it so helpful that I'm quoting here.. I need to read it over and over!
I've just realised something. As far as H is concerned, I've got nothing to lose. I don't mean about us as a family or as a couple, but me, personally. I have already lost my H, whatever comes now will not be any worse, because he is not giving me anything now, I don't need him. In a way, I feel empowered, but I am still mourning for the relationship I thought we had.
Everything I read says that the new relationship we develop might be better, but I cannot see that yet. He says he wants us to try, but there is no effort on his part. I feel further away from him every day, sleeping in the baby's room every night now. the friendly hugs creep me out, I cannot explain it but I feel cheap when he cuddles me. How did we get here?
How can we bridge this distance, its growing every day. I just need to keep reminding myself, that I really have nothing left to lose in this relationship.
Hi Esame,
I'm glad you are currently feeling a sense of empowerment. You are right though, even though it's tough, there's truly nothing else to lose (in terms of the R and m with your h). Remain grateful for everything you do have and for those things you can maintain without your h.
I feel you about the distance and the great divide that seems to grow further and further apart with each passing day. Sometimes I realize that this time and distance is so very necessary, but it does get scary to let go and trust that if we're truly meant to bridge that gap.... It could happen. In the meantime, just try to move forward and take steps every day to be an awesome human!
Thank you for your reply Fayth.
It seems that after the empowerment came the next step which is me not actually pretending to be caring and supportive any longer. I tried to be nice, and give hints, and be there and all I get is negativity and insults, and you know what, I had enough. He says he wants to try, well he better start trying. I'm through with the limbo, I've got my own problems and mental health to worry about. I cry when I want to cry, and do pretty much what I want to. Can things get worse? I doubt it. Like I said, I feel like I've got nothing to lose at this point. I need to concentrate on the kids and my university work, I cannot do that as a mental wreck.
I used to feel guilty, and I though that with the current situation with the MIL I should do things for him, be there, be supportive, be nice. This gets me nowhere, he tortures me with the constant rejection. I love him, and I'm willing to work hard for us, but not at the expense of my sanity. If I have a breakdown who will look after my kids? We have no one in the country, we are alone. I'm not strong enough to to show love while he is more distant every day. Is that detachment, going dark or being a horrible person? I don't know, but I have nothing else to give at this moment in time.
And I cannot shift the feeling that I'm being played. And I'm too old for games, never liked them much...
Esame, I'm so glad you got to spend time with the ILs and that you get along. I can't even imagine sleeping in the same bed as H while this is going on though. That spoke volumes to me.
The one thing that I am still learning from this whole DBing thing is, when telling us to GAL and stop focusing on H, it really is about finding you and staying true to you.
I, at first, thought that meant I could still do all the things I did as a wife (cook for him, clean for him, do nice things for him) since I thought that's who I was. I thought I could still do it and detach. Even after he left I would wait til he came over and try to make food for him, and if he wouldn't eat it I'd insist he take it with him to show I cared. But a wise person told me, "you can't nice them back". They were right. It just made me sad and angry...and focus more on H.
Well, I AM nice. I have changed my way of doing things though. I had to figure out what I need to make me happy and who I am. I have my goals and am pursuing them...just like you. I am leaving him be, for the most part. I don't call him unless I have to. I treat him like a neighbor...offer a beer if I'm having one while we're working. I don't pry into his life. I DO ask after his family. I do answer his questions about my life (he asks more now). I do ask how he's doing.
But I own what I did in our marriage and am trying to work on that because I should. It is my problem to fix. So, I listen to him now. I encourage him to talk about his issues WHEN HE STARTS TO TALK. I just encourage him when he says, "you don't want to hear about it". Whether it helps US or not, it will help him. I want him to tackle his issues because I care. I can't fix him...only he can. But I can be supportive on his journey.
"I tried to be nice, and give hints, and be there and all I get is negativity and insults, and you know what, I had enough. He says he wants to try, well he better start trying."
Your H is angry and vindictive right now. Maybe back off completely. That last sentence tells me (I could be wrong) that you're still trying to control his part of the sitch. He is trying to tell you to give him space with his behavior...do it. Let him heal on his own timeline.
"I used to feel guilty, and I though that with the current situation with the MIL I should do things for him, be there, be supportive, be nice. This gets me nowhere, he tortures me with the constant rejection. I love him, and I'm willing to work hard for us, but not at the expense of my sanity."
You can show your MIL you care for her. You can control that behavior...its yours to control. But doing things for him and doing anything above and beyond being civil when you are forced together WILL be rejected right now...because he wants space from you. Just space from any responsibility of any kind. Hurt animals usually run off to be alone to heal. Think of him that way. Be there to offer sympathy IF HE COMES TO YOU, or you will get bit. Stop getting bit.
Pull back and leave him to himself. When he sees you, be happy...with yourself. He doesn't need to believe your fawning over him. That's not being very true to yourself, right now, is it? Keep your interactions light and breezy, keep loving your kids, friends and IL. Show you care about everyone. Just don't REACH OUT to him. He'll smack your hand away... hard. Just let him see your happiness, love and caring from a distance. That's when your anger and sadness will start to wane. Let him go.
I'm still learning this btw. But I'm seeing it. I care for you, Esame. Stay strong, find you and stay true.
Esame,
You have gotten some excellent advice from ciluzen. Read her posting and then re-read it again.
Your h is talking a good game right now, but until he actually puts forth the effort to reconcile and I don't mean lip service, then it's not going to work. You can be civil to him, i.e., treat him like a long lost cousin or a neighbor when he pops in. Chat about safe topics and if he opens up and wants to talk, listen, but do not offer up opinions or advice unless he asks for them.
You definitely can't "nice" them back. However, you can be civil. You have to go on w/your life and live it to the fullest as there is no guarantee that he'll wake up any time soon, if ever. Be yourself and do not pretzel yourself to get his attention. The best thing you can do is stay true to yourself, even if that means doing everything on your own and on your own time. Keep those expectations at zero.
There is nothing wrong in caring about your in-laws. You can continue to do things for your MIL and be supportive of her, but as for your h...leave him to himself and allow him to grow up on his own time table. You can only control you and how you live your life.
Keep the focus on you. You are doing great! It's always one step forward, two steps back.
ciluzen and job thank you so much for the honest advice. So much food for thought in your posts, I need to read them again to process it all properly. It is so hard for me to not try to please him, I'm sure I have some sort of codependency issue, so many things to work on.
One thing is clear, his behaviour was pretty consistent today so clearly he is also acting, and he is not honest about his feeling. No way would he be ok with my behaviour today in the past, it seems like we both had personality transplants and we are in a life support machine, shadows of our former selfs.
Ciluzen I understand why it might sound like I want to control him, but that is not my intention. What I want is to not have to go thought being nice while he is distant and destructive, but I can manage being civil. And the reason I'm adjusting my behaviour is for me, not for him. I worry that I will snap and crumble under the pressure. I genuinely don't think that he can be manipulated or controlled, he is too intelligent for that.
Job, "one step forward two steps back" is exactly how I'm feeling. It's not a roller coaster really is it? One step forward two steps back is exactly right.
Esame, in the beginning it was really hard for me not to try to please my H. But I realized that while I was jumping through hoops trying my please H, I wasn't getting any appreciation for it. I just got more of the same distance and blame and all the rest. He didn't WANT me to please him. Plus, it was painful and not a healthy way to live. For my own sake, I had to stop trying to please him and just treat him like a roommate.
You also have to develop a really thick skin and not let him see his moods and antics get to you. I'm thinking of a line from a song (Hall of Fame): you can walk straight through hell with a smile. I tried to just keep smiling.
I was the queen of pretzeling myself. Thing is, in the end, all I was doing was propping him up 24/7 and that sure was exhausting. It was like keeping the wind away from a huge house of cards.
I think sometimes we we don't fully understand that the MLC spouse has checked out of the r. They did it long before they tipped their hand at BD. We are behind them and for a while, we still think there's a r. So we do nice things for them. And we become upset when the MLC spouse does not reciprocate.
But again, they checked out long ago. They're not in a r anymore. And all of our nice gestures may be viewed as pressure on them to be in a r. So they lash out to get us away from them. As 2X2Many says, it's not a healthy way for you to live.
In the beginning it's all about giving time and space and working on you. Focus on you and the kids. My advice is be kind but treat him like a (kind of weird) roommate.
Take care of you!
Thank you for stopping by HaWho and 2T.
I'm still trying to lower those expectations, not in the R sense of things (that's a big zero at the moment) but in the way we interact with each other.
He was walking around huffing and puffing yesterday maybe my strop bothered him after all. When he came back from the gym he offered to help with the laundry and while he was folding we spoke little about S10 and how he fast he is growing. I said that I hope we don't mess up like our parents and that we bring the kids up to be secure and honest about their feelings, and when he agreed I mentioned that a book I read recently spoke about how not speaking up about things that bother us makes us stop feeling things about the other person. He said that he agrees with that, and that he thinks that we both hate confrontation so much that we never argue and that in his case trying to hide those emotions or things that bothered him caused him to feel numb. This is the very first glimmer of honesty I got from him in the last six months. We didn't speak about anything else, but I wonder what would happen if I was more honest ant my feelings. Not sure I'm ready to open up (I don't think I can) but what if?
Went for a lovely long walk with the baby after I dropped S8 to school today, then I did a little shopping and got a card and a present for my tutor. I also managed to book a telephone consultation for some free counselling through my GP. Not sure yet if I qualify, they might just offer me something else if I don't though (group sessions or online therapy I think).
Loads of things left to do though, so I better go..
Sounds like the conversation w/your h opened the window just a crack. So, why not explore it a little bit further and see where it takes you? You might start out very slowly and open up just a wee bit. I wouldn't touch on the relationship just yet, but I would begin talking about how you feel about things, if you are happy about something, talk about it, if something is bothering you, then talk about it a bit. Sometimes, when we least expect it, info drops in our lap and it is up to us to figure out what to do w/it.
So, let's start...did anything annoy you while you were shopping? Start out small and see where things go. Don't be afraid to stick your toe in the water. You won't know where his mind is at if you don't experiment just a bit.
Good luck!
job you put a smile on my face with the "start small" comment. I do need to start small, growing up in a dysfunctional and abusive family I tought myself to hide my feelings and emotions. It is not my H I'm hiding from, it's everybody! I always brush things aside no matter how much they bother or hurt me, and I pay the consequences now. Unfortunately H is the same, he is just lacking my patience so he goes on lock down and just "zonks" in front of his PC, TV or whatever distraction he can hide behind.
Back to "starting small", nothing annoyed me while shopping, BUT I just opened my new pancake pan and it is scratched so I need to return it.
And in relation to H, I don't know what starting small will look like. Maybe if from now on I mention things that bother me? I don't want to nag or start a pity party though, so I need to find a matter of fact way to bring things up..
Even though we didn't talk about the R and I didn't start talking about my feelings yet, we did talk about the boys yesterday. And he was "present", he cared. He even asked about my observation today! Only two to go, one today and one next week. Then I will work on my portfolio and some reflections and then the course is done! And I can tick that off and move on to the next chapter of my career.
I did manage to tick a few things of my list yesterday, but I'm still a serial procrastinator. It is holding me back, and it is one of the things that H brought up as issues in our R and the way he sees me. Definitely an area of development for me, I must work on it as soon as possible. Any advice on procrastination, motivation and time management will be greatly appreciated!
I wish I could write everything down, I can only recall how raw the emotions were (for both of us) and how guilty and unhappy I felt. I knew I was against a divorce, but coming so close to it made me realise that it is really the last resort for me, unless of course he files.
It is clear now that he loves me but is not in love with me. At the time I believed he was honest, but I'm having some doubts now. I'm thinking that maybe he simply wants out, but I cannot give up.
I'm on autopilot I think, I really don't know what to do.
Things went quite badly for us, H declared that he cannot see me unhappy and that he doesn't think he can try. This continues with the them of "let's destroy further anything we are not 100% happy with". I don't know if I handled the situation well, I was in sock and told him that if he doesn't want to try he needs to go in September and that I was through. H looked devastated, but still didn't fight for us. He is in some sort of zombie mode, he says he doesn't know what to do, and that he doesn't want to end up like his dad. It's one of our first ever proper fights, and it felt like being hit by a bus. It is all a blur, I cannot remember specifics, but asking him to leave is the hardest thing I've ever had to say to him. And the prospect of my family being broken (officially) crushed me. It was a horrible night, but the next morning was easier, because I realised that we can survive a fight, we should have fought about things years ago. I also realised that I'm not giving up, so I messaged him at work to let him know that I am not ready to ruin my family, if he wants to do that it is up to him. He said we will talk, but we didn't (and I didn't feel like putting pressure on him). I wish I could write everything down, I can only recall how raw the emotions were (for both of us) and how guilty and unhappy I felt. I knew I was against a divorce, but coming so close to it made me realise that it is really the last resort for me, unless of course he files.
It is clear now that he loves me but is not in love with me. At the time I believed he was honest, but I'm having some doubts now. I'm thinking that maybe he simply wants out, but I cannot give up.
I'm on autopilot I think, I really don't know what to do.
Sorry the post was not submitted properly the first time so I copied and pasted so it's partly duplicated
I just remembered something else:
Apparently he believes that he has caused my depression in the past and he feels that he doesn't want to hurt me any more. That made me feel delusional, like I was in another relationship, not the one he was describing. How do I show the man that until his BD five months ago I was happy with him? Things were not perfect, but our relationship was not the problem. And one of the reasons why he feels that way? My wonderful "friend" told him I made complaints and was upset about his gaming! Seriously I need to find out who tells him that stuff.
Hi Esame - I just caught up. Oh, I remember all that confusion of those early days. I understand how tiring it is!
The MLCer completely re-writes history. You know that, right? They tell themselves all sorts of astounding things and actually believe them to be true.
I don't believe you can tell him anything to really convince him otherwise. You can validate his feelings and say "I am sorry you feel that way." This will show him you are listening. You could try to say "I am sorry you feel that way, but I don't agree with your opinion of my feelings." But be careful to use this 2nd statement very sparingly otherwise it'll seem like you're arguing which will just convince him more that you don't get along.
They are very confused. They have very short attention spans so they can't focus on a conversation for too long. That's why he seems like a zombie. Keep conversations very short. Listen if he talks but otherwise try to give him loads of space and time and quiet. There is no point in asking him about what he wants or what he thinks about the marriage. He is too confused to know. And even if he answers "x" today, it will be "y" tomorrow and "123" next week. You can see he is not at all himself, right?
You can be kind and listen, but it's best to take the time away from worrying about him and focus on you. He has to figure it all out on his own.
Hope you get some well deserved rest.
Thank you for your reply and the advice HaWho, I really appreciate it.
They are very confused. They have very short attention spans so they can't focus on a conversation for too long. That's why he seems like a zombie. Keep conversations very short. Listen if he talks but otherwise try to give him loads of space and time and quiet. There is no point in asking him about what he wants or what he thinks about the marriage. He is too confused to know. And even if he answers "x" today, it will be "y" tomorrow and "123" next week. You can see he is not at all himself, right?
You are absolutely right about this, he is not himself. Or he is not who I thought he was.
I thought I was at a good place before THAT night, feeling like I had nothing to lose. However asking him to leave taught me one thing. That even though I have already lost him, my kids have not. And my kids losing their dad (as they know him now) is a hell of a sacrifice for me to make. I know divorce is some times inevitable, and I know kids can grow up happy as long as they know that both parents love them. However in my case with my son's additional needs and being alone in a foreign country with no family or support network, a divorce could be catastrophical! He probably knows it too, and that is why he looked so broken after our conversation. He seemed to be having some sort of an episode. He really needs help, but am I the right person to help?
You can be kind and listen, but it's best to take the time away from worrying about him and focus on you. He has to figure it all out on his own.
After seeing him so devastated, I'm not sure if he can figure it out on his own. He looked helpless and weak, I don't know how to describe it. I don't know if space is really what I should give him, maybe we need the complete opposite? I think Michelle mentions a "fake it until you make it approach" maybe we need to follow that while we are dealing with the bigger problems? I really don't know. I'm surprised that I'm more upset about the overall situation rather than the fact that he is not in love with me any more, I feel like I' m in a survival mode but around my family, not my feelings. Which is wrong. One day I will be devastated about this, why can I not face it now?
Esame,
You can't fix him. He has to do that. You can treat him w/kindness and be civil to him. Be a good listener, but do not offer advice unless he asks for it. As HaWho has pointed out, when he says something about being unhappy, say "I'm sorry you feel that way" and leave it alone. He's very unhappy w/himself and his life right now and it's not because of you or anything you've done...it all from within and his childhood issues. Again, you can't help him...he has to do the hard work.
Do not attempt to pretzel yourself to make him happy. Be yourself and continue to live your life for you and your children. The less pressure he has right now, the better. The relationship talks are putting pressure on him and he doesn't have any answers that will satisfy you right now. Why? Because he doesn't know what he wants except that he is unhappy. It's not your job to make him happy.
Also, try to remember that if he can't help himself right now, then how can he work on the relationship. Helping himself has to take place first, he needs to figure things out for himself and heal before any work on the relationship can take place. Many of them will say that they are working on the relationship, but in truth, they aren't. We are doing all of the heavy lifting because they think that being civil and maybe still living at home is working on the relationship. They aren't mature enough to connect the dots and realize that it takes two to work on a relationship. Right now, his coping skills are zero. Don't expect to see him "working on the relationship" any time soon. His opinion of how it's being done is very different from yours. That's why it's important to continue on w/your life and if he wakes up, wants to do the hard work to prove to you that he's ready to reconcile, then so be it...but remember, you will ultimately be the one to decide whether to reconcile or not.
Really, the best thing you can do is leave him alone as much as possible. If he joins in w/the family on doing things, treat him as a friend. Conversations should be very light and very short. His attention span is that of a gnat. Keep your expectations at zero and unless you really want him to move out, don't bring up moving out...it has to be his idea.
Dealing w/mlc is not for the faint of heart. It is a marathon, not a sprint...detach a bit more and try to keep the focus on you and your children. The less pressure your h is under, the better...just leave him alone as much as possible. Truly you are doing him a favor by doing so.
I just remembered something else:
Apparently he believes that he has caused my depression in the past and he feels that he doesn't want to hurt me any more. That made me feel delusional, like I was in another relationship, not the one he was describing. How do I show the man that until his BD five months ago I was happy with him? Things were not perfect, but our relationship was not the problem. And one of the reasons why he feels that way? My wonderful "friend" told him I made complaints and was upset about his gaming! Seriously I need to find out who tells him that stuff.
My H still tells me he made me miserable, that my best chance at happiness is to not be with him, that I really didn'the like him (just didn'the realize it yet), and that he'should tired of hurting me. Hawthorne and Job are right. The MLCer rewrites history. You can'take convince them otherwise. My daughter even tried to tell my H she saw nothing but love between us (from both of us) until he turned his attention elsewhere. It's fruitless.
All you can do is be understanding. Patient. And focus on your goals. Listen, learn, but try to let the rewrites just blow on by. That'said just them trying to justify behavior that actually goes against what they know is not right. Move forward with you and your goals.
All you can do is be understanding. Patient. And focus on your goals. Listen, learn, but try to let the rewrites just blow on by. That'said just them trying to justify behavior that actually goes against what they know is not right. Move forward with you and your goals.
Thanks Ciluzen.
I'm trying to be patient, but I'm struggling with the silence. We are both struggling with confrontation, so after that horrible night three days ago we haven't spoken about it at all. I messaged him on the morning after, and he said that we should talk that night, but that's it. It feels like I'm back at high school dating a teenager that is so immature that he cannot speak about what he wants. It's like we are ignoring the elephant in the room, but how could we continue like that?
Thankfully we have a break coming up for the summer holidays, the kids and I will be spending the summer with my family and H will visit us for a few days.
It is so hard, as Ciluzen said, it's fruitless...
Esame,
You can't rush/push the process along. You are dealing w/a child in a man's body right now. To be perfectly honest w/you...maybe at this time he doesn't know what he wants. Maybe that's why he's silent and doesn't want to talk right now. Don't text him again about discussing that night. Like a kid, he knows that things didn't go well, but right now, he needs for you not to remind him of it. Yes, it's called sweeping it under the rug, but MLCers do not want to discuss such things. At some point, you will be given the opportunity to open the door on discussing that night...but right now...be patient and leave him alone.
When your h is ready, he'll contact you again. Some of them tend to wait until they think things are forgotten or settled down before doing so. But until he does...only contact him about the children or in an emergency. When you do have contact, keep to safe subjects.
Esame, you can't rationalize w/someone who is emotional. Your h has to grow up before you can have an "adult" conversation w/him. You are dealing w/a teenager who is actually trying to find himself and his place in the world.
It's difficult, but you can do this. We all have had our moments and have learned that the best way to deal w/them is w/as little contact as possible and when they do come around, treat them in a civil manner, listen and validate. It will become easier in time.
For now, keep the focus on you and your children and the summer holidays. Leave your h to twirl in the wind.
Thank you job, once again your advice is spot on. I suspected that the right thing to do would be to give him space, I just worry so much about us drifting further apart. Then again I worry about many things nowadays, I just need to let go.
I have a busy week planned, it should be lovely. Monday taking the car to the mechanics. On Tuesday I have my final teaching observation and then I 'm going out for lunch with my tutor. On Wednsday I'm traveling to a city around an hour away to meet with an old friend that I haven't seen in three years. She is a strong independent person, exactly what I need more of in my life right now. I booked the tickets already so I don't cancel if I don't feel motivated. And I'm trying to get in as much walking as possible, it is working wonders for me. I lost 4.5 lbs this week and I got a healthier colour. I find it's helping with my low mood too, I definitely feel better.
I think if I continue with my healthy eating and exercise I can be at y target weight by the time we go away, and then I can work on other things that bother me in my appearance when I'm back home.
Esame,
Worrying about things is only going to give you ulcers and headaches. Sit quietly and the answers will come. Giving him space the best thing you can do for him right now. Try to remember that the more you push/pressure, the more it's likely he'll distance himself from you. When you give them space, many of them tend to gravitate back towards the spouse because they sense that the pressure is off and expectations are low and that's when a friendship can happen...you have to decide whether this is what you want. You can't go back to the old marriage...it's gone and the only way to try to rekindle a reconnection is by starting out as friends.
Your week sounds busy, but I'm sure you and your friend will have a wonderful time together. Go and have some fun. Leave the MLC monster at home and just relax a bit.
Walking is good for you. The more you walk, the better you will feel and yes, the weight will begin to come off too. Be sure to drink plenty of water during your walks.
Enjoy your week! You've got a lot to look forward to.
Esame - Job has given you great advice.
I had a hard time letting go because, like you, I too worried very much about drifting apart from my h.
However, through reading extensively about this whole process, I learned we HAD TO drift apart. It's the very way you'll make it through this. We were no longer able to meet each others' emotional needs. My h regressed, like yours did. He re-wrote history (seemed to burn the history books altogether!), withdrew entirely on an emotional, intellectual and physical level. So, how could I have a relationship under these circumstances? How was this possibly going to fulfill me?
The point is, he had changed. Either I accepted that and started moving along on my own journey or, I could keep trying to have a relationship with someone who could no longer meet my emotional needs, not that he had any interest in doing so anyway. He had abandoned the marriage long before he bombed me.
I tried to be kind and listen when he came to me. Otherwise, I gave him space as he was clearly confused and not himself, at all.
You will feel so much better the more you walk, both literally and figuratively.
Esame,
Please start a new thread.
New Thread:
Couch to 5K the MLC away