Hi,
I was on this forum about 10 yrs ago when my husband left me and had an A. We were separated for 6 mos and he filed for divorce. We then reconciled.
ten years later (as he is about to turn 50) here I am again. I got suspicious about a month ago when he told me he wasn't happy and wanted to be alone. I looked at his phone records and saw many times/minutes to the same number...I then checked his facebook and found a series of messages from his ex high school girlfriend! Some were flirtatious in nature. I called him out on all of it. He told me he wasn't happy and wanted to be alone but was not thinking of divorce. I told him the OW was a distraction and the communication needs to stop. He said ok. About a week later, he said he had talked to her but not as much...calling from work I am assuming. Then he changed his tune and told me he was not giving up on our marriage and family. Things were better, my trust is shot but I was working on it.
Last week she texted him. I asked him about it and he said he called her to tell her to stop. I asked to see the texts and he said he deletes them (duh...).
I got suspicious this weekend when he was late coming home from golf...sure enough a 45 min call...he called her.
We get along fine, we go out and we have a healthy sex life. He tells me he loves me.
I need advice:
do I let him know I saw the phone call from Sat? I think he is probably expecting me to check the phone records and call him on it. maybe I should do the opposite?
Do I act as if nothing is happening? He is home, and that is different from the last time.
Last week when I discovered the texts, we had an argument. The next morning I told him I was going to take his word that he wasn't going to communicate with her and I would take his word that he was committed to our marriage....and then BAM...calls her on Saturday.
I don't want my kids to have to go through all this. They were too young the last time to remember.
What do I do?
Wow......sorry you are back here. May I ask, how old are your kids? And how old are you?
My story was similar. My ex had an affair in his early 40's. I DBd my butt off and we reconciled; things were actually quite good for a few years after that. But as my ex approached 50 (and sustained the final 2 of his 6 concussions) he went down the MLC rabbit hole for good and we divorced.
I'm several years past it now, have a good life and a loving boyfriend. And I've acquired some insights about my ex and my marriage with distance:
- 3 strikes and you're out. My ex cheated early in the marriage, and again about 16 years in. When he finally left after 24 years (and involving himself again with other women to some unknown extent) I realized that this time, there really wasn't anything he could do that would cause me to trust him again.
- it took some time, but I gradually realized my ex has narcissistic tendencies and always did. I worked overtime trying to keep him happy, while he wasn't willing to go out of his way.
- it was tough on my kids even though the youngest was 17 when it happened.
I don't know exactly what course will be right for you. But I'm pretty sure that being a doormat while he continues flirting isn't the right direction .
Welcome to this board.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmKeep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thanks KML. I am 44, he will be 50 in May. Our daughters are 14 and 10 and I have two stepsons, 23 and 20 from his first marriage. My 20 SS lives with us and I have been his "mom" since he has no communication with his biological mother.
The first A happened just after 40 yrs old with a girl from work. He changed completely...dyed his hair, went tanning, gold chains,got fired from 3 jobs, not much communication with me or the kids. This time is different. I truly think he is struggling internally with age...every time he has a conversation he talks about being old. I can see the draw of the high school GF...nostalgia is a drug.
There hasn't been any more FB messages and he hasn't changed his password so he isn't hiding anything there.
I know he knows I check the phone bill...so I think ignoring the call from the weekend is my best bet. I can't tell if it is test because I told him I would take his word, or if he wants to talk and doesn't know how to go about it. My H is a man of very few words. It has taken me years to realize that "OK" as a response is a good thing. I am not going to talk R unless he brings it up. I am not going to argue for my sake. I have taken up the gym again so my nervous energy comes out there...
I dusted off my DB book and am re-reading it.
Last night I was normal but not overly chatty...At bedtime he gave me a kiss goodnight and said goodnight but no "I love you"...I said goodnight and went to bed. This morning when he left for work he gave me and the girls kisses goodbye and said "I love you all". I responded with "Love you too". I figure if he didn't want to say it he wouldn't. Lately, I am always the one to say it first and I stopped because I don't want him to think he has to say it back. Let him initiate.
I am not being a doormat because I am not looking at this through rose colored glasses. I think he needs help. If I can't trust him then the future won't be where I am now.
We will be married 16 yrs in July.
Hi KML,
I am 44, he will be 50 next month. We have D14 and D10 and I have two stepsons from his first marriage, S23, S20. S20 lives with us and I am the mother figure for him. He has no contact with bio mom.
I don't feel like I am being a doormat. Right now I am living as if everything is normal. I feel like calling her on his cell is somewhat of him testing me..he knows I check phone records so I am acting as if I don't.
We will be married 16 yrs in July. I am making a choice to not engage him at this point. I don't want to argue...happened last week and D14 heard everything. I refuse to put my children through that.
I have gone dark...well dim. I am not initiating kisses hello and goodbye...he is. I usually say "Love you" but today he did it first in "his way"...telling all of us he loved us before he left for work.
I can't try to rationalize his mind...I think this really has to do with turning 50, 40 was bad...we separated, he lost 3 jobs, didn't see the kids, tanned, dyed his hair...crazy.
He knows full well how lucky we were to reconcile and I am not sure if that is in his head now...I hope so
You know, I wouldn't tell him you know about the phone call - only because you want to be able to continue to monitor what is going on.
On the bright side, though, you don't know what the content of that call was - could have been a long break-up call.
What I recommend is that you focus on YOUR life. Focus on having fun, trying new exciting things, making plans for your future, getting financial ducks in a row in case he ends up leaving. A guy like this is depressed about aging, looking for excitement and something "different" thinking it will relieve his depression. The best thing I got out of my whole DB experience was that it kicked me out of the mode where I was just trying to take care of everybody else, into the mode of thinking about what I really wanted out of MY life.
I thought that I was doing the right thing for my marriage by compromising and placating my ex, but in reality, I think we would have fared better if I had stood up to him more. I think he lost some respect for me because of it.
When my ex finally left, I bought a drum set and learned to play the drums - at 53. The kids thought I had lost my mind, but now I play in a punk rock cover band. My youngest son just came out to a gig of ours last week and tole me I totally rock!
Try to take some of the focus off of your H and put it into renewal and growth for YOU. Regardless of the outcome, you'll be glad you did.
I am struggling today and I don't know why. This is so hard. H has been OK...quiet but called me the last two days from work just to say hi. Started my car this morning and gave me a kiss goodbye but no "I love you", but told me to have a good day.
Why can't I focus on the positive things? I feel awful this morning.
Hi LED, i am really sorry to hear your husbands brain had disappeared again.
Can you tell us, your last bunch of issues from 10 years ago, did H and you ever seek any kind of counseling or did things sort of get swept under the rug and allowed to 'get back to normal'?
Do you know (not just what H tokd you) what failed on his first M?
This is just for me to get a better sense kd what is going on long term.
Now for you...what are you doing for db...what are you doing for GAL? Your 180s? Your owrsonal goals for your own development? Do you work outside house?
KML is spot on with 'it is time to focus on you'
I hope you will continue to post.
Hi Zephyr,
His first marriage dissolved naturally...to be honest his ex is crazy. I am not saying this because she is his ex. She has a reputation.
10 yrs ago, H told me he wasn't happy and left immediately. A with co-worker. He fell off the face of the earth, dyed his hair, went tanning. Not much contact with D5 and D1 at the time. I didn't pursue. Went to court for D. Three days later he called me to ask if we could talk. He wanted to reconcile. I agreed but not without marriage counseling. He readily accepted.
We are friends and enjoy each other's company. I know this EA with the OW is infatuation...she is a hs gf from 30 yrs ago. I also know he is struggling to to turn 50.
Since the blow up we had on Sat there has been no R talk and he is acting fine.
I am struggling to get out of my own way. My mind races and I am projecting the worst of everything. I need to stop. He says he loves me and doesn't want a D. Why can't I just accept that?
I am a teacher so I work outside the home. I have been going to the gym and seeing a counselor on my own.
We are still intimate and go out together. I know this thing with OW won't last, but I don't want it stuck in my brain.
I'm sorry that you've returned to the Forum. I may have posted to you under the poster name of Snodderly. Do you remember what your poster name was back 10 years ago?
I do remember you! I think I was momof2girls. I need help! I am struggling and totally took a backslide this weekend when my H and I argued. We were on a carousel...He wants out and although doesn't admit OW is the problem I feel that she is. I was really good last week and said nothing and his tone was better.
I lost it over the weekend. The burden of the kids and the house all on me is stressing me out.
He is going to counseling tonight but threatened to cancel it over the weekend. I said nothing and this morning he asked if I knew what time his appt was. So this tells me he was telling me he was going without "telling" me.
I am scared...I am worried...I need a good pep talk.
I think your original poster title was momof2girls and I do remember you!
You've been down this road before and you know that you can't control and/or fix him. He has to do that himself. You also can rationalize w/him concerning what he's doing and w/whom. The more you attempt to talk to him about the ow, the harder he's going to run the other way.
We all have days when the burden of raising children and taking care of a home can be stressful. Is there any way that you can ask him to watch the girls for a bit or ask a friend to watch them? Sometimes, you need a break, a change of scenery to clear your head a bit.
As for him going to counseling...good for him. What are you scared and worried about? Go back to the basics of leaving him alone, not questioning him or commenting about the ow. Keep the conversations on safe topics and see how that goes. The less you argue w/him, the better. You are just fueling his fire of justification as to why he's doing what he's doing. When he's upset about something say "I'm sorry you feel that way" and end the conversation.
It's time to put the focus back on you and your girls.
I found a very old thread of yours and bumped it up.
Thanks...to be honest, I can't believe I am here again...the past 10 years have been good. I am scared of being alone, finances, etc..
Last time he left after telling me, literally. Now he is here which tells me he wants to be. I need to give the ow (old hs gf through facebook connection) a rest. He talks to her all the time and she probably makes him feel good.
He keeps telling me he doesn't want to be married, wants a lifestyle change. So MLC. I was trying so hard but this weekend got to me. I lost it. It has been two months of a rollercoaster. He says he wants to leave but we have no extra money for that...he spent last weekend in a hotel by himself to think. There were no calls to ow. He seems so determined to get out yet hasn't thought about any of the consequences to his family. He also hasn't told anyone. I have confided in my sister and best friend but haven't told my parents.
I need to stop talking about R...I know I do. I feel like he talks to me more rudely when I push. I am just trying to wrap my head around the whole thing.
Sounds like he didn't finish up his transition/crisis the last time around. Well, you know what you need to do...that is to stop having relationship and ow talks w/him. Start putting some money aside just in case he flies the coop. You can get gift cards or put money in a safe place where he can't get his hands on it.
Yes, the more you push, the nastier he'll get towards you. Why? Because he doesn't want to hear what you have to say nor look at the things he's doing.
I'm so sorry you are back here, but he's got to finish his crisis and this time around, it could be far worse than the last time. Prepare yourself for the worse and hope for the best and buckle up because the ride may get bumpier than last time.
UGH...that just made me sick! right now money is tight and I control it all. He told me the only reason he was going to counseling was for me...I know H...he doesn't do anything he doesn't want to do.
If he didn't want to go to counseling then he wouldn't. Trust me.
Same with leaving. We have a 5K mexican vacation planned for Aug and he still hasn't told me definitively to cancel it.
Give me strength. I am not happy to be back here but I am so grateful for the kindness and support.
Well, if I were in your shoes, I would still go on the Mexican vacation if he cancels out. You could always ask a family member or a friend to go along w/you. I certainly wouldn't allow him to ruin my vacation just because he can't get himself together.
I don't feel comfortable taking my kids out of the country by myself. The resort is beautiful...we were just there in Aug celebrating our 15th anniversary (sigh...)...
Interesting...he called me from work to tell me counselor was running 15 min late and he wouldn't be home till after 7 and he checked on how the kids were. He hasn't done that in weeks!!!
I was upset with him on Sat for coming home from golf late without calling...I let him know it...maybe he heard me?
Thank you for finding my old posts. I read the whole thing and I am definitely an older, wiser, stronger woman this time around. Let's hope counseling helps him tonight.
I need a new counselor, I think...last week she told me to kick him out.
Give me patience...
H said nothing about counseling. I know I need to respect that. He came home, ate and went to the gym. I know snooping is wrong and only hurting me but I looked at our phone records and he called OW on the way to the gym.
My insecure self goes to him sharing everything with her. He came home we talked about nebulous things and I went to bed. This morning he wasn't rude, said goodbye to daughters and left.
He has a meeting tonight and said "I'll be home when I am home"...I said OK. This is huge for me because usually I say "what time do you think?"...
The last frustrating thing was our cleaning lady comes today and I asked him if everything was picked up in our room. He said yes . I walked in and he had clothes on the bureau and dirty clothes on the floor. I had to pick them up...I am not paying for a cleaning person who cleans around dirty clothes. my initial reaction was to text him and tell him but I didn't.
Led
Im sorry for your pain
I know how hard it is
I think I also remember you from way back
You did it once and whatever you did worked
maybe continue to work on your patience
show up your best
good luck
LED, you are doing a great job at being patient.
It is so difficult sometimes to not want all of the answers, all of the info on what H is doing. But the sad fact is, even if we know who the call is to, we don't know the content.
If we knew the content, we don't know the intention.
If we knew the intention, we don't know his true feelings.
If we knew his true feelings at the moment of the call, they may have already changed a minute later.
I still screw up and ask questions and kick myself later. I still wonder what my H is doing or if he is telling me the truth. The fact is...this is why we work on detaching. To keep ourselves off of the crazy-go-round (its not very merry). It all doesn't really matter anyway. DB til you see signs either way. Then DB some more. Its all about patience. You are doing great with that.
Sometimes, picking up the dirty laundry is our job. And sometimes laying his stinky clothes and underwear right on his pillow gets the point across that he forgot to be a big boy and pick them up himself.
Thanks! I still waiver on being strong...it is against my nature to not talk about things. The last time he moved out and I didn't give him the time of day.
It is harder to do at home...I don't want him to leave, don't get me wrong. My D10 and D14 are also always around and I am trying to act as normal as possible for them because they don't know anything yet. D14 has asked me a couple of questions but nothing serious.
I am a worrier...and worry gets me no where. I am projecting scenarios that are not real. I know I need to live 5 minutes at a time...
right now, I am married and nothing has happened to change that. I also know H...he does what he wants. If H really wanted out he would have left. That is when I know being patient and not bringing up R or OW is the healthy thing to do. Why would I aid him in making decision that portrays me as a nag??
Thank God for these boards...I appreciate all of your advice. It makes me feel so not alone.
We are fixers and we want to fix them and their situations....we can't! That's their job to fix themselves. We want answers and there are times when the answers will not drop into our laps until we sit quietly and wait patiently and that's when they will appear. It's human nature to want to know things, but there are times when we will not be able to figure things out and again, have to wait patiently for those things.
Come here to talk, but do not talk to him about the ow and/or the relationship right now. I know you are worried, but worry only gives you ulcers and makes things worse for you on the inside. We have a tendency to over analyze stuff, try to mind read and yes, even come up w/scenarios of what is or isn't going on. I've been there done that many years ago. So, the last time around you didn't give him the time of day. Unfortunately w/him at home, it's a bit difficult to do so, but you can treat him just as you have your girls. He's a teenager right now and he's going to do whatever it takes to make himself feel better.
Have you read Hawho's threads? If not, you should. She's got an adult teenager living in her home w/her two sons. She's had her ups and downs, but she's busted on and is doing very well w/her husband living in his stinky dorm room.
Hang in there!
I also know that my projections and over analysis of what he is doing and how he is acting and what is going to happen is probably much worse than reality.
like my current fixation.
H has a meeting tonight at 6:30. He never comes home from work first...driving opposite directions. He gets out of work around 5.
Why can't I let that go today? Will he be with OW? As far as I know because I pushed him and he told me, they have been to lunch twice...otherwise that it is phone calls.
So again...projection at its worse.
Get a rubber band and place it on your wrist. Snap that band every time you think about him and what he's doing. I can promise you, if you snap it hard enough, you'll forget about him and focus on that sting.
So, he says he has a meeting this evening. He may or may not have a meeting. He could be playing mind games w/you to see if you'll take the bait and say something. He could be working late, going to the gym, another counseling session, meeting up w/friends. But, whatever he's doing, it's of no concern to you right now. The less you appear interested in what he's doing, the sooner he may start to tell you what he's doing.
You have nothing to fear but fear itself. I think the fear of the unknown is going to drive you nuts unless you find something else to focus on. There's nothing you can do about his meeting or who he is meeting up with even if you had the info except worry that much more. Drop the rope a bit and keep the focus on you and your girls. Watch those finances and the bank book!
You have to start looking at him as a wayward adult teenager right now and yes, they do tend to pluck your nerve and patience as they attempt to grow up. The less you say right now, the better and trust me, when you don't appear interesting in their comings and goings, the more apt they are to start being Chatty Cathys.
Job, I knew I could count on you to slap me silly!! I know for a fact he has a meeting. That is a definite. The surrounding ideas are all in my head. You are right...I am going to drive myself crazy.
I will vent here and to my friend and sister. I did tell my MIL what is happening because she asked because she could tell things were off. She wants to talk to H but the opportunity hasn't happened. My parents know nothing yet. I feel like if the time comes to tell them then that is the line in the sand. They stood by me 10 yrs ago and will not take this lightly at all. I guess right now I am trying to protect my marriage the best I can. I hope this isn't enabling him. Being disinterested in him is the right thing to do...just not my nature. I feel like it could push him closer to OW because I am not asking how his day was or this or that.
I will go to the gym later, take D to swim, enjoy dinner with my kids and then try to relax. My dr gave me a prescription for anxiety meds over a year ago and I have never taken one. If my insides continue I may need too. Again, not a med taker.
Job, I knew I could count on you to slap me silly!! I know for a fact he has a meeting. That is a definite. The surrounding ideas are all in my head. You are right...I am going to drive myself crazy.
I will vent here and to my friend and sister. I did tell my MIL what is happening because she asked because she could tell things were off. She wants to talk to H but the opportunity hasn't happened. My parents know nothing yet. I feel like if the time comes to tell them then that is the line in the sand. They stood by me 10 yrs ago and will not take this lightly at all. I guess right now I am trying to protect my marriage the best I can. I hope this isn't enabling him. Being disinterested in him is the right thing to do...just not my nature. I feel like it could push him closer to OW because I am not asking how his day was or this or that.
LED .... some friendly advice here. This chitty-Sitch can and will consume you if you let it. The problem with focusing on the issue is in part, we focus ... pull out the magnifying glass and the issue becomes bigger ... FOR US. Its all we can think about, talk about, dream about .... what he is doing/where/with who/ all of that is wasted energy by you. This energy is extremely valuable and you need to pull it all in, channel it into what YOU can CONTROL .... yourself. He will do as he will, nothing you can do/say will stop this ... I would STRONGLY advise you only to vent here, not with your friends, family, in-laws as it is not going to help later down the road. Nor is you continuing the "LOOK AT WHAT HE IS DOING" war chants ... he will only blame you for ruined relationships .. or that he is no longer comfortable with these people in his life and burrow deeper in the tunnel.
Its not about score, who can get the family on whose side ... it is a crisis and no one but your H can walk it. Let this realls sink in ... you have NO CONTROL over this part of your life and it probably scares you ... let this play out as it will.
I will go to the gym later, take D to swim, enjoy dinner with my kids and then try to relax. My dr gave me a prescription for anxiety meds over a year ago and I have never taken one. If my insides continue I may need too. Again, not a med taker.
Reading what I have ... you may want to take a look at this .. maybe IC ... I know I was not a person who would ever think of IC but it gave me a place to dig deep and vent about the core fears I had .... looking back that was a turning point in my growth.
I am going to counseling. I have an appt tonight. I said nothing last night when he got home from his meeting...I was half- asleep anyway. I think at one point he told me to stop snoring and I said sorry...I think his response was don't be sorry...can't remember.
I am trying to let a lot go...the wedding ring off and away is bothering me but ring or no ring he is going to do what he wants. He is being a baby..."I don't want to be married, so I am not going to wear the ring" I will think of it as a piece of jewelry.
I know letting this consume me is all me. I hate that I can't get my mind to stop. I am putting everything under a microscope even the time he left home depot that I saw on the receipt to gauge how long he had before his meeting.
I have not had R talks since the weekend and have no intention of it unless he comes to me. For his 50th I bought us tickets to see a show...the show is this Sunday and I offered to sell the tix and he said no we would go. We also have Mother's Day plans at his parents with both our families.
Faking it is so hard.
good morning,
H told his parents last night he doesn't want to be married and wanted to move out by the end of the month. He did not tell them about ow.
H also informed me that he is looking at an apt tonight. I told him the money is not there to do it and we need to look at finances instead of him "believing me". I told him this had to be done tonight because I can't lose anymore sleep over this...it is affecting my who personality, job, etc...
I feel so disrespected. I am going to go over finances and try to keep it at a business deal. I am going to tell him to move downstairs and we will reevaluate in 30 days. I am not going to bring up ow. His actions are speaking louder than his words. He tells me there is nothing going on but I don't believe it.
Yes, I fear the unknown but this limbo is making me sick. How do I handle later??? I hate knowing he is looking at an apt but I can't control it. He said he is just looking. I have a feeling it will be a dump and it is in a not great area...I certainly don't want my kids playing outside!! Time will tell...
I need pep talks,,,
I would do a spreadsheet to show your h what comes in and what goes out in the way of money/bills. You will need to also factor in a bit of "rainy day" funds for emergencies that can and will crop up during a month.
You don't tell him to move downstairs. You suggest it and let him mull it over. It has to be his decision. Telling him to do so makes you sound like his mother. They are more receptive to suggestions that "telling". Also, I wouldn't put a time limit on re-evaluating the situation. Why? Because he will be counting the days to the 30th and this will come up again. I suggest that you state that "if he does decide to move downstairs, he can always re-evaluate the living arrangements at a later date and discuss them w/you". You have to put this all in his court. You aren't his mother and you can't control what he does.
BTW, if he is h@ll bent on moving, he will find a way to do it, money or not. There's nothing you can do to stop him from moving out. Whether it's a dump or not...he will make the decision as to whether he wants to live there. As for your children, if it is a dump, then you can advise him that it would be better to visit w/them elsewhere due to safety and environmental concerns...but you are jumping too far ahead. Let's see how it plays out this evening.
Remember, you need to give him things to think about and make decisions himself. Also, speak to him as a business associate and do not tell him what to do....you aren't his mother, even though he acts like a spoiled brat at times.
That is my plan...I am just so emotional right now that I almost need to rehearse this.
Ugh...I am not going to tell him to move downstairs...I will suggest it. However, I feel I need to set boundaries if that is the case. He is still in the house and should be interacting with the kids...again, his choice not mine.
I kind of backslid last night when he told me he told his parents... I tried to get him to think about what he has and how good it is. He just stared at me.
Thank you for the support!! I feel like I am going through hell right now.
I may not suggest moving downstairs at all. I may just present the bills and let him mull them over and make a decision.
You will need to remain calm and keep your discussion on point, i.e., short and sweet. He's not going to be able to focus on lengthy discussion and will tune you out. If you get emotional, he will tune you out. Be sure to look him in the eye when you are speaking to him.
If you are going to set boundaries, remember not to come off sounding like his mother and use the "I" word and not "you" and don't point finger of wrong doing to him. Again, that comes off sounding like mom or an authority figure calling him out on his flaws.
You can do this!
Ok...
One boundary I want to set is having him take part in raising the kids..help me phrase it.
If he decides to move downstairs; how do I say that so I am not acting like his mother? Also, if he moves downstairs does that mean I no longer have to cook his meals, do his laundry? etc..
I would like him to stop calling ow (obviously...) but that wouldn't be a boundary I should set right now, correct?
HaWho is going through the same thing that you are right now and she's handled her situation very well. Her h is living in a room and he cooks some and sometimes eats w/the family. I'm going to ask HaWho to come visit w/you.
You do realize that you can't control him and whether he is participating in the raising of the kids? You may ask him what his plans are for assisting and supporting the girls w/their homework and activities. You may offer to set up a calendar that indicates when the girls have their activities, i.e., date, time and location to assist both of you in keeping them on a schedule.
As for cooking, cleaning, laundry if he moves downstairs, you need to wait and see if he will opt for that move. If he does, then ask him if he's given any thought about how he's going to handle his laundry, cooking and cleaning for himself. If he's going to cook , it will be his responsibility to clean up after himself. You may say that he's more than welcome to have meals w/the family, but that will be up to him. I would venture to say that he won't want to eat w/the family all that often if he moves downstairs.
As for the ow phone calls...nope, you can't set that as a boundary if he's living downstairs and not around you and the girls. I wouldn't set too many boundaries in the beginning...but if you see him texting or calling someone, then I would speak to him about it when it occurs.
If you set too many boundaries in the beginning, he'll seriously think of leaving. You don't want that right now.
Breathe!
Please send Hawho over...I am sure she will be a big help. I have all our bills/finances ready to go..he is not going to be pleased when he sees the bottom line.
I also did some money moving around to see what it would be like if I had to do it on my own. Its not good...I would be in the hole every month. Now I know I am jumping the gun but I needed to get a handle on it and it is something I can control.
H told me he is only looking at the apartment tonight....that is it...I guess he can look all he wants.
Hi Led - sorry you find yourself here. But you are in a safe place with tremendous support.
I have read up on your sitch and want you to know that I will post some advice in about an hour or so, when I have a free moment at work.
First, my VERY strong advice is before this meeting exert yourself physically. Seriously. Go for a run or bike or yoga, ride the stationary bike, something. Get the stress OUT.
I will post more in a bit.
I have asked her to come visit w/you...but you can also go over and visit her threads and see what she's been dealing w/and how she's been handling her teenage h living in a dorm room.
A spreadsheet of the what's coming in and what's going out says it all. Don't be surprised if he comes back later and suggests things that can be reduced and/or cut out of your life, i.e., activities for the girls, cable, etc. Some of them have done this.
I don't think you are jumping the gun to see how things will look if you have to take on the finances. I call that planning if things go south.
He can look all he wants, but he's going to discover that they are expensive, i.e., even the hole in the wall ones.
Stay calm and breathe! Try not to allow him to bait you into saying or doing something that you'll regret later. If you feel the conversation isn't going well, then end the discussion and say "we'll continue this discussion at a later time when we've had some time to think about things" and close it down. Nothing will get accomplished if you are emotionally charged and things get heated. Good luck!
Hi Led,
Well, you are receiving excellent advice from Job. She, among others helped me get through those early crazy days.
My h went through months of telling me he wanted to move out. When I confronted him on where he was going all the time and why he seemed out of it, he lied and said nothing was up. MLCers lie, they are sneaky and they are selfish. Weeks later my h confessed he had been apartment hunting but hadn't REALLY lied to me as he had not yet decided if he wanted an apartment??? He was trying to see what "felt right."
Cue eerie MLC music. MLCers operate on feelings and emotions not logic (as you are seeing.) My advice during this conversation is to keep your body and eyes quiet (no angry or antsy body language), speak quietly and calmly. Look him in the eyes (but he will probably avert his).
You can't control anything he is going to do. And he may not remember anything he says. My h told me I could sleep with other men and he would sleep with other women (?!?) and then didn't remember saying any of it the next morning. And I believe he didn't remember. You can't make things better/fix him but you can make them worse. Much of Job's advice points to ways to avoid making things worse: acting like his mother, telling him what to do, getting emotional discussing the relationship, discussing OW, etc.
There was a woman named Beatrice who gave me great advice in addition to Job's advice. Try to think of TED statements. These are statements that begin with "Tell me," "Explain to me" and "Describe..." So in a calm voice and body (very nonchalant) you may say w/ eye contact "tell me why you want an apartment?" "Describe what you are feeling." Then you listen and if you can, give quick, calm advice but only where necessary. Learn by listening. Mostly listen as you will learn most this way.
Through this method I learned my h wanted an apartment to "live life." Ok, so then I ask "tell me what 'living life' means?" (There's that "tell me" statement.) And he insinuated sleeping with other women. So then I calmly said (like a friend not a wife or mother) "didn't you already do that in life? Remember you were bored of it?" And then I dropped it. No arguing, no beating a dead horse, etc.
One thing I did, was to tell my h in a very calm way: there's no rush. No reason to do something rash. You have time." This seemed to talk him off the ledge in those days.
If you want him to stay, the key is apply NO pressure (through words, emotions, your body language, etc).
At the right time you can show him the spreadsheet and maybe say "there's no funds for this and also there's no reason to jump into this." Say no more. Listen. Then if he says something and you need clarification, go to the TED statements.
You're not going to like this next bit. I wouldn't go talking to him about his responsibilities with the kids or the house. He will run. My h is 1 1/2 years post BD and he just ignored me for 1 week because I very politely asked him to clean his dishes.
Worse yet, seeing what I saw of his odd behavior, I did EVERYTHING with the kids for almost a year. He was so out of it. I didn't want him having responsibility for my children. He would get lost driving, forget what day it was, etc. Just because he is their father does not mean he is the right person to care for them right now. I know that's not fair. But it's reality. If you were interviewing him for a babysitting job you'd never hire this person! You'd be better off picking somebody off the street. (My h is better now with the kids. He is more active in their lives, but not his old self with them, by any means.)
We are no longer dealing with a rational adult. You are dealing with a selfish teenager who can only think of himself. We have to try not to think of MLCers as an adults.
Bottom line is keep it calm, short, to the point. His attention span is short now. Once you make your key points, yawn and stretch, like none of this is huge to you, and then you leave the room first. That's right!! I was always yapping away and reasoning and things only got worse. When I made my quick points, yawned and moved on with my night my h gave me owl eyes. Once, after I left like this after a crucial conversation I could see into his room as it had a window to the outside. He sat in that chair for a full minute before he moved. He expected me to stay there and talk him to death (which is what I used to do).
Again, you can't control what he's going to do. Your best chance it to show him there is no pressure. Then you back off completely.
Get some exercise beforehand. It always helps. Sending you calm vibes.
Thank you HaWho...I have so much to say to respond to you...we are married to the same man and I also am a talker and a reasoner...beat the horse till its dead and then some.
I will write more later or tomorrow...h should be home soon and D14 and D10 need me to help with homework.
Please check back tomorrow. I am going to be to the point. Hand him the spreadsheet, explain it matter of factly and then go to bed.
Hi led, you got really great advice. I really learned a lot from hawho when my w was living downstairs. You mentioned wanting to confront your h on ow. I think my w was planning her move for some time as she to was also talking about getting an apartment but I confronted her about om and it made it worse. Somehow in her mind it made me the bad guy, she started telling me what a great person om was and how I didn't understand. It was like telling a teenager she couldn't date someone so that's exactly what she wanted to go do. Also even if you present him with a spreadsheet (not saying you shouldn't) I wouldn't expect him to understand or accept it. I'm glad your in control of your finances, I'm trying to clean up several messes w made before she left.
Good morning friends!
Well...good and bad about last night. I handed him our finances and we went over it. I did it basically tear free...a couple of slip ups.
I was matter of fact. I then told him I was going to inform my parents this weekend. I told him I couldn't leave them in the dark and I needed their support. H parents know and our parents are close friends...they need to hear it from me.
Then a bit of R talk (I know, I know...) and he told me he is very confused...doesn't want to be married but lately has been thinking of the kids and our family. H knows how I feel about D so I said that I think D is a final option and things have to be awful. Currently, our financial situation would result in both of us suffering if he leaves. I didn't say that to him, he kind of figured it out on his own.
I told him if he is going to stay then it would be nice if we were a family, whether he is happily married or not. He then held up his thumb and pointer finger about an inch apart and said "you have this much..." I told him to hold on to that inch of hope, confusion, etc...with every thread of his being. I told him I am handling all the burden of the house, kids, etc...he agreed and said I was doing a good job. I then started talking about working on things and then stopped because I just didn't want to get into it. I went to bed.
When H came to bed I was still awake so all I said was "Thank you for listening" and he said your welcome.
This morning when I woke him up he said good morning first. He then asked what my plans were for tonight because he has been out the last 3 Fridays in a row. I told him I wasn't sure. To be honest, part of me wants to go out and the other wants to pour myself a big drink, get in my pjs and veg on the couch. Both D's have sleepovers. H doesn't know that.
I then brought up ow (ugh!) and he again insisted they are just friends. I told him I haven't checked phone records because it is too hurtful to see (who is the liar now?!?) and what would I see if I looked. He said you would see calls, I am not hiding anything. I told him I feel their R is a threat to our marriage and he disagrees.
This weekend we have a party tomorrow at his parents and I told him if he didn't want me there I wouldn't be..he said I "can" go and we "can" go to the show we have tix to on Sun night. One thing I know about H is that "can" means "wants to" and "OK' means all is good and he is liking something. He doesn't get overly excited about anything.
So some backslides, more conversation than I have had in a while. He did tell me he didn't talk to me because he doesn't want me to think that because he is talking to me he wants to be married. What??
So now I sit with to tell or not tell my parents...believe him that he is holding on by a thread or blowing smoke. H did tell me the apartment was big but the neighborhood was not nice...I told him moving there from our house would be a downgrade but that is up to him.
Financially he knows where we stand. Emotionally he knows where I stand, I know how he feels. I was very careful not to tell him how to think, do, act. I told him that...he said he appreciated it.
OK...Let's hear it!
Oh! H did ask me a question "Why do you want to be married to me if I don't want to be married to you?"
I told him our family unit means the world to me and I think kids should be raised by both parents (especially when the M is good...not now its not but overall). I told him I love him and that he is worth it. I also told him I was proud to be his wife. I said this nicely, quietly and matter of factly. No tears or questions back to him.
He said thank you for answering my question.
Led - all in all, nice job!
So, that bit about him saying he doesn't talk to you because he doesn't want you to think he wants to be married? I had heard similar in the early days. They don't want to feel the pressure to make the r work and they don't want us to get our hopes up. They are very confused and they can feel guilty if they feel they are stringing us along. (At times though, they have no qualms about stringing us along.)
Also, he may avoid talking to you because he dreads impending questions about ow and your r. Stay away from those as that equals pressure.
My advice, if you want to keep him in the house, is to back off completely. When he goes out on Friday nights don't say a word. Give him tons of space so that there is no pressure on him. Don't come across as his mom in any way as that equals pressure. Ask nothing of him. This will be hard, I know. But if you believe in MLC and I am sure your eyes are showing you it's terribly real, he needs space and time.
He will become increasingly selfish and you will need to find ways to get the stress out without talking to him. In the early days I thought of my h as a house guest. How would you treat a house guest who was visiting?
If he tells you he is confused, maybe very calmly just say "there's no reason to do anything rash" and walk out the room. Create the illusion that there's all the time in the world because he is feeling the walls of time squeeze in on him. He is scared that life is passing him by. He may forget about the finances being tight so you may need to repeat there is little money each time he mentions an apartment.
Get busy for you and give him space without any pressure.
Thanks! I went through all this before when he turned 40. The only difference was he bailed...literally told me and walked out the door leaving me with D9months and D4 at the time.
I heard all the same things and he ditched us. Didn't see kids much at all. This also happened at 30 when he and his first w divorced.
I did ask if he sees a pattern and what is going to happen when he turns 60...He said "maybe I'll be dead..." Of course, not unexpected.
I am torn about telling my parents. It is going to change their R with him forever no matter how this plays out. I worry about that because they were by me every second the last time so I don't want to cause them worry. Him asking me to hold off? Not sure why he did that.
I need to be still. Not talk about anything and get through the events we have this weekend. Funny thing is we enjoy each others company usually.
After looking at the finances, I wonder if it may be in my best interest to consult an L...just to know my legal rights. H told me he did look at child support guidelines. This threw me a little but then again...let him look.
He told me he looked at checking accts that had no fees. Again, let him look.
I asked if he had consulted and L and he said no.
H left for work this morning with the financial spreadsheet in hand...let him work with it.
H mentioned I could refi the house...let him mention it. I will do what I think is best in my situation.
"Mom",
If you can hold off a bit longer in telling your parents, I would. You don't want to spoil Mother's Day for your mother and right now, everything is still up in the air, i.e., he's home and still communicating w/you for the most part.
Also, do not ask him if he's seen a lawyer...you are planting seeds in his head and you do not need to help him water them. I would advise you to seek the advice of a lawyer, just so you know what your rights are...but do not tell him what you've learned. This info is for you and your children.
Overall, your conversations w/him in the last 24 hours went well...but you now need to step back and give him the space and time to digest what he has been given in the way of info. There is no need to rush things. The ow...no more talk of her. All you are doing is pushing him closer to him by doing so, i.e., regardless of whether they are friends or not.
Now, it's time to focus on you and your girls. Give him enough time and space to choke on and allow him to come to you. No more relationship talks for a while.
Definitely consult a lawyer and find out your rights and what you can expect.
Also....no MLCer ever decided not to leave because of the budget. They're not that rational, plus sadly, in most cases they'll end up financially better off than you will. (Male mlcers that is).
KML,
So true! When I showed him what splitting would look like I end up in the hole.
If he wants to leave he will...I know that. Last night I could tell he is confused and isn't sure what end is up. Better to say nothing about it today, nor tomorrow, nor the next day.
I know (my rational self) that I can't do this for him, nor can anyone help him. My friend's husbands, my sister all want to talk to him but I told them no because it will either make him mad, push him into a corner or whatever.
I made mention last night that one of our friends husbands knew and the first thing out of H mouth was "what did he say?"...I said I am not sure, I didn't ask for details.
We will see how the weekend goes. I did make an L appt for a consultation on Monday. I am not going to tell him, I am just going to get info...it doesn't change the fact that I do not want a D and want my marriage to work out.
Sorry for the length but I feel like my life is a reality tv show!
So on Friday H called from work to say he was going to get a drink with a guy from work, he would be home around 7 and wanted to know if I wanted to go out and get a bite to eat. I played it cool...told him I was headed to my friends house and if I was home about the same time then that sounded good.
Went to friends house, H called to ask if we were going out and to invite my friend and her h. WHAT?? Anyway, we all went out for a bite. We had a good time. I think at one point friends H told my H to "get his head out of his ass" and my H replied that he was going through something and was working on it.
As dinner continued, H started to text. I asked who he was texting because that is unlike him when we are out with friends. He said "everything is ok, don't worry about it"...this was not said arrogantly...it was more pleading...like please don't ask because we are having fun and I don't want to fight. Well his nonanswer lead me to believe it was OW. All I said was "You have to be kidding me, texting her NEXT to me in a restaurant is disgusting..."
On the way home, I flipped. I know its not DB but that is downright disrespectful and I will not put up with it. He proceeded to tell me she texted because she was mad he was out, he told her he was out with his wife and wanted to make things work, she said you told me you were getting a divorce...blah blah blah.
I said she wouldn't think any of that if H didn't tell her. I told him they are not friends because friends would be happy if our M pulls through this.
Well, like I said. I flipped...like something literally snapped in my head that I was done with this. We were in bed and I just couldn't take it anymore..I got out of bed, put my clothes on and told him I was leaving. Luckily kids were at sleepovers so we were home alone.
I have never, ever said I was done before. Not ten yrs ago, not now. He jumped out of bed and started pleading with me to sit down and talk. I said no, I am done. He stood in the bedroom doorway so i couldn't leave. I told him to move and i was done...I deserved so much better and I deserve to trust my H unconditionally.
So I left! It was midnight. I got into the car and realized I left my phone in the house...when i came back in I heard him from the bedroom saying please don't leave...I may have heard tears...not sure.
And then, of course...not one of my friends answered their phones so I sat in a parking lot until 2 am. H called numerous times leaving me voicemails.."Please come home, etc.."
When I got home I slept in D14 room, he got up and asked me to please come to bed. I said absolutely not.
Yesterday when he got up he told me he wants to work on things, he has a lot going on in his head...he said in his gut he knows we will pull through this. I told him I have dealbreakers. The first is if the relationship with OW continues. I believe it is EA, not PA and I think she is acting a bit psycho...LOL...I have been calm, cool collected and non pressure through out the last two months.
My other deal breaker is if he chooses not to go to counseling with me. I was straightforward and told him I don't trust him and unless he earns it back we don't have an M. He told me he would take care of OW...counseling he is not prepared for yet but then again...this is not going to be an overnight process.
yesterday I saw txt messages on phone records to OW so I asked him about them. He told me he told her he was going to work on us and she was mad, etc... I asked him to prove it and show me the messages...he couldn't. So...bit red flag there. I told him if there are any more texts or calls from his phone it is a deal breaker. I told him if I sense that he may be contacting her other ways, it is a deal breaker.
So I am not sure what happened or how the tables turned but I think my strength scared him a bit. I am not talking about it anymore...I told him actions speak louder than words and time will tell.
Can't wait to hear what you all have to say!
Since you have laid the deal breakers out for him, then you will need to follow thru, i.e., no ifs, ands or buts. Stick to them. As for the ow, he needs to send her a text that states the relationship is over and that he no longer wants anything to do w/her and that he will working on his marriage. He will need to be transparent in all things, texts, emails, calls, etc. He can't waffle on the no contact w/the ow...it has to be done and cut off completely. Of course, she's not going to take this lightly and will continue to text and/or call him to try to wear him down...but if he's sincere in wanting to make things work, he will need to go NC w/her as much as possible. It may be a bit difficult if she works w/him, but it can be done.
I know you were angry, but do not leave your home again. If anything, go to another room. After all, you aren't the one that isn't in the marriage 100%.
I'm sorry the situation escalated, but maybe this will clear the air a bit and he'll finally realize what he could stand to lose if he continues down the path w/the ow.
Now that you've said what needed to be said, step back and allow him to work on himself. He's not ready to see a counselor, so I would continue going myself...but in time, both of you will need to go together to resolve those issues that weren't completely resolved years ago.
Keep the focus on you and your girls for now. Give him and his issues over to the man upstairs for a bit. He's got a lot to think about.
Thanks Job,
I told him everything needs to be transparent but he said he deleted the messages. I did check this morning and she has texted him about 10 times and he has not responded to her.
I think she is a bit irrational and he is probably turned off. Yeah...its amazing how the green grass on the other side turns brown.
I am still meeting with L tomorrow, just to know my rights and get some questions answered. I am not going to tell H.
Tonight we go to a Broadway show for his bday. If there is any contact between them today, I will be going without him.
Like I said...once I say something, I follow thru.
Led -Of course OW is irrational--she is involved with a married man who lives at home with his wife!! Umm, that sounds real healthy. LOL!
I am sure there is a way to block her number on his phone. It's probably something he can opt for in settings. Be careful also as there is some way to make your calls private via cell phone. I think you dial *82 before making the call? I wonder if these calls still post on the bill?
It's hard to monitor all this given all the ways people can communicate these days. We live in an era where Ashley Madison is a functioning business model! Pathetic.
We had a good time at the show last night. We went to dinner before hand and get this...as we were driving into the city OW called H...
Her number came up on the bluetooth car screen with her name. LOL...I told him to answer it and end it, of course he wouldn't but it was fun to watch him sweat a bit. H told me he deleted her texts but he didn't because I looked at his phone.
I asked him why he lied and he said he kept them in case he needed to show me but he didn't think i needed to read them. WEll...i read them all and he has himself in a pickle. She is nutso!!! Her texts are threatening, pleading, irrational.
I told him to block her from his phone and unfriend her on facebook. I do think he is turned off by her. He told me last night that I am a very rational person, know him well and he appreciates my patience. I told him my patience is thin and his words and actions are going to make or break this M.
H knows something snapped in me over the weekend and I no longer think he thinks that because I don't want a divorce, i won't get one if things don't change.
WE will see...
"Mom"
A word of caution...even though he says he told her it's over, she will continue to contact him out of desperation. When they are desperate, they do some stupid stuff...watch your back. I'm not trying to scare you, but she may very well target you and your family w/text messages, calls, etc. Be sure to walk around your car if you are parked in a parking lot, etc. Again, not trying to scare you...but if she escalates her desperation...she may do something really stupid.
Oh Job!
Don't think I haven't thought of that. I said to H this morning that she best not contact me nor our children. I have never contacted her, nor will I unless she crosses a line and I feel like my family is in danger.
She is texting him constantly...so manic. I told H he needs to block her from his phone. I will revisit that in a few days to make sure it is done.
Right now, I am stepping back. I have said everything I need to say.
I will give H credit...I was joking around (well not really) yesterday and he took it well. We went to see Jersey Boys last night and the four Seasons sing "Working my way back to you babe..."
I elbowed him and told him it should be his anthem!!!
I know he isn't happy, he said his mind races all the time but he wants this to work. So as I have been doing, I will give him space to think.
we really did have a great time last night and I was going to send him an email or text just saying it but decided against it. I told him last night I had fun and he thanked me numerous times and told me I "did good" with his bday gift.
I also asked H what he would like to do for bday and he said he doesn't want to think about it....he still has 21 days. I think he is scared of 50.
Good morning,
So H and I have been getting along. H ended talks with OW...I told him he needs to block her from his phone and social media...he hasn't done it yet.
Then stupid me asked "do you feel bad that you are ending all communication with her?" H said he was bothered a little but he said he was going to make M work.
He told me he is 75% wanting to be M and the rest not. H says its all in his head but isn't ready to commit to counseling by himself.
I think I have been talking to much, and tears when I talk. I don't trust him and when I let him know that he tends to turn it on me. I know this is a long road but H doesn't seem to have a plan to make it better.
I guess I am just hopeful, hurt, untrusting...such emotions in my head.
H did make it loud and clear to me that he hates when I ask the same question 1000 different ways to get the answer I want. H claims this is one of the things that makes him mad. I do it because I am trying to get an understanding of what is happening in my life.
Give me pep talks to STOP doing it!!!
If what you are doing or have been hasn't worked do the opposite. Doing the same thing to get different results is the definition of (fill in the answer here).
You can do this
"Mom",
Stop all relationship talks for now. He's admitted that he's only 75% into working on the marriage. He's still sitting on the fence and until he's 100% ready to work on the marriage, he's still thinking about things. Step away! Leave him to do some soul searching on his own. The more you talk about it, the more he's going to tune you out.
He's not ready to give up the ow just yet and that's why he's not blocked her.
Please stop asking questions as you are coming across as needy and clingy. Show him the independent and strong woman that you are. You did this before and you can do it again. She is not the prize...YOU ARE! You know the drill, come here to talk and talk to your IC...both places are safe for you. Trying to get something out of your h right now is like squeezing blood from a turnip...can't be done.
Leave him alone...keep to safe topics of conversation for now.
I know, I know...I will be better. I have counseling appt today, she is going to be like...OMG, how things change in 7 days!!!
Tonight we are going to D14 chorus concert and H is coming instead of going to a charity board meeting. This is huge for him... usually he would go to his meeting.
Two weeks ago he ditched all of us for dinner and hit golf balls.
This is a positive step...why can't I just take it for that and move on?
Go to your counseling appt. today. You need that safe haven to vent and bounce things around to help you better understand why you can't detach a bit more and/or drop the rope.
To answer your question as to why you can't take his actions for what they are and move on? You are still are very much focused on what he says and/or does. You are allowing what he does to affect you and your mood. When you detach a bit more, it won't bother you as much.
Job,
You are right...I also don't want to get "burned" or think he is pulling the wool over my eyes. I did just check phone records and he did block her!
She was not blocked this morning. I need to take to counselor, talk here and shut my big fat mouth at home.
It is hard to detach...each day is a different roller coaster ride. I do have plans with friends tomorrow night and Friday afternoon and then he plays golf on Sat. We are going to a Kentucky Derby party as a family Sat afternoon.
This will give us (me) a little bit of my own time with him being responsible for the kids. I need it.
I did it! I stayed quiet about any R talk ALL DAY yesterday. My counseling appt was good...and H was fine last night. We talked about his work and other safe stuff.
Attended D14 chorus concert as a family.
When we went to bed, he leaned over and gave me a kiss goodnight and said I love you. I almost fell off the bed. Instead of acting shocked and making a big deal about it (because I haven't heard it in a while) I just said I love you too, in a quiet voice.
I saw where he blocked ow from his phone but he hasn't told me yet, and I won't ask!! That would be a 180 for me!!
He also has changed his facebook a little. He deleted some posts with the kids...not sure why. I asked him to block her but maybe he made his page less "personal"? I don't want him checking into places and she seeing where he is.
I just need patience.
Dig deeper for patience and sit quietly. The less you talk about the R an the OW, the better.
I'm very proud of you! If you were able to do a 180 yesterday, you can do it again today.
Did it again!! No R talk. Went out with friends last night for Cinco De Mayo and had fun. When I got home I said hi to H but did not give him a kiss hello (this is opposite of my norm...)
No I love you yesterday but this morning he told me and the girls "love you all"...
H did call from work yesterday to say hi.
I haven't asked for facebook password yet. Not quite sure how to go about it. H still hasn't told me he blocked OW from phone but I know he did. I still won't ask. I noticed he can't be tagged on anything on FB...so I am not sure why he did it.
Keep up the good work! The less you say at this time, the better. I wouldn't ask for the password to his FB page for a while. Sit back, sit quietly and the answers will come. You need to wait patiently for him to come to you and he might be testing you to see if you are going to revert back to your old ways of asking questions and snooping. Don't do it! Show him the new you, which is someone who can wait until he approaches you.
Thanks JOB! You are wise and correct. I won't say anything.
It is funny because last night I didn't make a comment and he asked about it. It wasn't a big deal but I laughed to myself. You see, apparently I snore...before we went to sleep H said "Hey, no snoring tonight" (in jest).
I said nothing. He then said "What, no comment?" I said "nope"...H said "You always have a comment"
H then said my snoring is part of the "package". This is my old H! We call M the "I do package"...so me and my snoring go hand in hand.
I am hoping for a peaceful weekend. Last weekend was awful but I almost wonder if it needed to happen to wake him a bit from assuming I was turning into a doormat.
Good morning. Weekend was ok until last night. H and I got in a huge fight and he left. He did come back but had no regard for how upset the kids were. He blames me for everything...He called ow over the weekend and I found out and called him on it because he had blocked her from his phone.
H said she left him a vm at work on fri about a drs appt and he wanted to check up on her. H did tell me that he told her the phone call didn't mean anything and that he was still working on m.
Well I was upset...argument ensued and he left. When he got home he blamed me for him leaving. It was ridiculous.
This morning I apologized for walking away from him (which caused him to tell me to screw and he left) and he didn't apologize for anything...not even upsetting the kids.
Things over the weekend were good until then. H had a few drinks and I think that is what made him so mean.
When he got home I said nothing and went to bed. He slept downstairs.
The more you point out that he's still in communication w/the ow, the more he will be tempted to do so behind your back and yes, heated arguments will continue.
The call may not have meant anything to him, but it meant a lot to the ow. It told her that he still cares about her and her well being. Now, she knows just how to bait him to contact her.
If he truly was working on the marriage, he would cut all contact w/her, especially responding to her calls, text messages, etc. He's still "addicted" to her and will continue to be that way until he stops returning and/or answering her calls.
The drinks may have helped w/him being mean, but I think, he was that way because you caught him doing something that he shouldn't have been doing. He's like a child getting a cookie out of the cookie jar after "mom" has told him no.
I'm sorry things turned a bit "south" last evening, but unless he's completely transparent about all communication w/the ow to you, it's going to be difficult for him to work on the marriage w/you.
I know. I told him he was being baited. He told me he told her just because he called didn't mean he wasn't working on our M. He said to me "contrary to what you believe we are friends..."
Friends would be transparent. Last night was quiet. I can't trust that he isn't talking to her. I am not going to bring it up but I wish he would stop. H does have her blocked from his phone. The nerve to leave him a vm at work. I have never done that and really only call his work number if there is an emergency.
I am going to stay quiet. He made a choice to stay home and work on us and I guess right now I have to believe that is what he wants to do.
Advice?!?!
Advice?
For now, go about your business as usual. If he brings up the ow, then you can say something...but if he doesn't...remain quiet. To work on the marriage, there has to be the two of you and certainly not a third party, so toss her out of your head right now and focus on today and what you can control in your life.
Be his friend, a good listener and sit quietly...the answers will come. Oh...and remember to breathe!
Last night was quiet. No OW talk...stuck to general conversation. H did make a comment that he might make himself a drink and I told him the drinking was getting to be too much. I told him he turns mean.
H then said if I didn't provoke him it wouldn't happen. I said his actions provoked me. H had no response. This was not an argument. H didn't have a drink.
Another bit of info I heard him say last night was about increasing our tax with holdings because when S20 graduates from college we are going to owe. H said "we will owe until D14 goes to college"...to me that is future talk. I just acknowledged that I agreed and we would figure out how much I need to take out of my paycheck.
Oh..H didn't get home from work until 6 and walked into the kitchen and said "oh you didn't have to wait for me to eat dinner" H seemed pleasantly surprised...again just another thing I noticed. I didn't say anything we all sat down and ate as a family.
After that D10 wanted H to make meatballs because she only likes his so he made those for dinner tonight and then went to the gym. He gave me a kiss goodnight but no I love you's since Sundays fight.
Another quiet night. No OW talk. I have no idea if he is talking to her from work or not. I guess I won't know unless I ask and even then if he says no, I am not sure I believe him anyway.
I am hoping for a peaceful weekend.
Continue as you have been. You can't control what he does and can only believe 50% of what he says. Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves to you in due time.
H decided to play golf last night with guys from work. He did call me to ask me if we had plans before he committed so that is positive.
I was upset he chose to play because he says he wants to work on things but yet isn't home to do so. I didn't act mad at all.
We are supposed to go out tonight and I am hoping he doesn't call and say he is going out with guys from work first. If he does, I may pass on our date.
I don't want to feel like I am second.
"Mom",
One of the things that I have noticed w/the MLCer is that they say that they want to work on the relationship/marriage, but in reality, they don't. My xh said the same thing and even went as far as telling his co-workers that we were working on the marriage and yet, he was doing his own thing and not focusing on what needed to be worked on. So, take what he says w/a grain of salt and don't expect him to actually be working on marriage in the same way that you are and would expect a normal person to do.
Continue as you have been and keep the focus on you. If he truly wants to work on the marriage and do it the proper way, you'll know when he's serious about it. Until then...keep your expectations at zero.
I know... I do see some pieces of him trying. It takes patience...I am trying.
Dig deeper for patience and keep expectations to zero for now.
Hi!
Well...the weekend was quiet. H did call OW to say hi and then she called him back and realized she was blocked from his phone. She then called from her home phone. This started an argument because H told her never to call him again.
I said to H.."You called her first...you lead her on. Had you not called her she wouldn't call you..." STUPID! Well, now two numbers are blocked and he has removed her from facebook.
Anyway..I told him I was no longer willing to do this when I have asked him numerous times to end contact. I told him the NC needs to happen, he needs to make a counseling appt for himself and we need marriage counseling. If this doesn't take place we will not stay married.
Well...he has IC appt today and I am waiting for a call back for marriage counseling appt. H told me he has never seen me like this before (even 10 yrs ago) and he is nervous that I am going to end the marriage. I asked him how he thinks I felt over the past few months. H said I must have felt the same way. Only difference is H is the cause of this...I have done nothing but be supportive.
Anyway...yesterday I received two anonymous emails from OW (obviously...) both came to my work email...easy enough to find it I guess. H was mad and I was ballistic. I told H NOT to call her...this is what she wants. I also told H that I don't blame him for her sending me the emails, but I do blame him for bringing this ridiculous drama into my life.
If I receive another email, I think I will report it to the police. Granted, they won't be able to prove a thing. I never knew websites existed that could send anonymous emails. I guess I am not a psycho.
H was wearing wedding ring when he left for work this morning. We also have mexican vacation planned in Aug and I told him right now I don't want to go. H begged me not to cancel. I told him I wouldn't cancel it yet but if I feel the same way I do now come the summer, it may be an option.
Luckily, I am a positive person and have hopes that this will work out.
Is there any way that those emails can be blocked? They may not be coming from her at all, but my guess is that they are.
As for him calling the OW...yes, he leads her on and I think deep down, he likes the chase and wants the "pick me" dance to begin. Some of them enjoy having two women fighting over them. Just remember...you can't control what he does. You can only control the way you react to what he's doing.
About marriage counseling. I don't think now is the time for that. I think both of you need to IC first. Some, but not, all will encourage a separation to see if the "cooling off period" will work or even say that the marriage is beyond repair. I honestly don't want this type of conversation to take place at this time. IC is more about time working on individual issues and once those issue are resolved, then follow up w/marriage counseling.
The OW is geeting exactly what she hoped for. She's driving a wedge between the two of you and the more she does this, the more your heated discussions will escalate and he'll be out the door. I know you want this resolved...but it's going to take some time. Step back now! You've said what was on your mind and he knows that he is skating on thin ice. Now, it's up to him to decide what his actions will be and face those consequences.
Keep the focus on you. Do not allow the OW to take up space in your mind. She's not paying rent there. Step back and allow this situation to play out naturally. The more you try to reason w/him about the situation, the happier the ow is because she knows she's getting to you. Don't allow her to see you sweat!
Bottom line...step back and remember to breathe!
Bear in mind, for your H, this is like an addiction. He doesn't WANT to drink, but he keeps being tempted to go to the liquor store and look at the bottles.
I'd love to read what the OW emailed to you - just an interesting view into the mind of the OW. Of course, remember he has probably been telling her a boatload of lies.
The emails (3 as of yesterday) tell me he is lying, cheating @sshole. I did contact the tech dept at work and they are blocking them from my inbox. They are coming from a website that sends anonymous emails.
JOB- when H agreed to MC he said he hadn't agreed before because he is afraid he is going to get bashed. The place we are going is a marriage and family therapy practice. The counselor is marriage and family certified and PRO marriage. It was the first question I asked. I do not want someone to tell me to separate.
I have no intention of letting the OW see me do anything. I am not acknowledging the emails at all. I am 100% sure they are from her and I will not give her the time of day. H said he would call her and tell her to stop and I said absolutely not because she is looking for that and NC is the way it has to be forever. He agreed.
H is being very forthcoming over the past few days. We had a conversation about the OW the other night. It wasn't heated...H admitted he felt needed by her and she boosted his ego. My IC told me nostalgia is a drug and addicting. That is exactly what happened. OW has shown her true colors and H thought the emails were unacceptable because he knows I have done nothing. I have not and will not contact OW...ever. I have way to much class for that.
H told me this morning that he wants this 100%...he knows I love him but right now don't like him very much. He is giving me my space. I can tell he is unsettled by my behavior.
As far as the "pick me" dance...funny you should mention that. I told H that I would not fight for him. I told him I can't control him and he will do what he wants.
I told him I will NEVER compete with an OW when he is my H. I shouldn't have to, and I won't.