Start of a new thread. Idk how to link the old one yet.
HW--Good points and you bring up some very thought provoking questions.
Being kind and courteous and thankful are for me. I really had become a person even I did not like (I was angry, miserable, mopey and just plain bitchy.) I refuse to be like that anymore--even my kids had noticed. I have no illusion that it is going get him out of MLC or depression. I am however trying to be a 'person only a fool would leave', and not give him justification if/when he walks out the door.
HaWho's questions are thought provoking and I'll give some more thought to them, but off the top of my head ...
It seems to me that a "person only a fool would leave" is someone who can understand the pain and torment the MLCer is going through and do whatever they can to draw him/her back to "sanity." Granted, there isn't much, but if an opportunity presents itself, I'm all over it.
I don't see anything wrong with a little ego stoking (when appropriate) as their self-esteem is in the gutter and is one of the things that needs to be resolved before they start the journey home. And I think that in some cases, in spite of all the grandiose BS they spout about how great things are with them, they do feel a lot of guilt and doubt. I just think that at some point they will wake up and will gravitate back toward the one who was in their corner all along ... the lighthouse. If not, at least we know we didn't drive them over the cliff. I want to believe deep in my soul that I did all I could, that I was the best, most loving, compassionate, understanding 2T I could be (I'm still working on that) and if he chooses to walk away from that, it's his problem.
I wouldn't be thinking about his LL's right now. I wouldn't be thinking about filling his love bank right now. I'd be thinking more along then lines of being the rock, for when they finally wake up and realize what they've done, the rock is what they will gravitate to.
It looks to me like your H, Mel, was looking for some sign that you were still there ... like Mom in the next room. I think the I love you's are the same thing for him .. are you still there? It's okay to "be there" but based on all I've read, they need to realize that "being there" is a limited time offer. When he says he loves you, I would just respond, "That's nice to hear" or something similar. I would leave the door of doubt ajar in his mind. You can show your love through being the lighthouse ... you don't have to say it.
I could be way off-base. Every sitch is different.
Mel, I completely understand becoming a person you didn't want to be. I was like that for a while ... grumpy, bitchy. bitter. Thank goodness I, like you, recognized that this is not the person I want to be. And I'm much happier with myself.
At one point he told me he was doing me a favor , and in ten years I would thank him. (Ring a bell, Cil?) During that convo, I told him to go have his pity party somewhere else.
I like your response to this. My H is still telling me how I feel about him....no matter how I act around him! Its hard to validate someone when they are telling you how you feel about them and they're WRONG. I have a hard time agreeing with his feelings when H can't respect mine as my own.
Thanks so much 2T. My sentiments exactly. Really!
I just posted on HWs thread too, that for me, I need to lay my head down every night knowing that I did everything I could to save this M. And you're right--if we become the best possible version of ourselves and they still walk, then their loss!! Not that I want to become a doormat, or lose any self respect. I am hoping I have a good grip on that. Like you said, I just wanted and needed to be happy with ME!
Its not so much that I am worried about his LL or trying to fill his tank. I have just NOTICED that his LL has changed. I read the book, and I don't remember a LL being able to change. But maybe he has been bilingual this whole time and I never noticed. But, when appropriate, I do try to tell him he looks nice, or thank him for helping with whatever. Not over the top fawning or gushing about his awesomeness.
Cil, Yes, this is what my H is doing too. How do you validate and agree with feelings when they are telling you how YOU feel?
His LL has changed because he has changed, he is in crisis and will be for some time .... During this time he will anchor test to ensure you stay precisely where he left you, this is like a old tshirt .... We love that shirt but only wear it around when no one is looking. With you staying where he left you this frees him to do things he wants, there isn't any change in him because he HS all the cake he can eat.
On of the things in this I think goes overlooked is how long the crisis takes and how broken they are, and will be. I will plant this seed in you, hopefully it takes some root... Use this time to become stronger, you will have to become stronger to last past the crisis. He will temp check/anchor test/touch and go .... You have to be the rock during all this, you have to become hardened to a point where you see him as the person he is at this moment and not who you once knew/loved. Truth darts here and there to steer them along, even some tough love in dashes.
Get detached to a point where You see the checks and tests for what they are.... Just that.
People who PERFORM acts of service usually have Words of Affirmation as their receiving love language; they do the acts of service in order to get the kudos.
Thanks Cali. I appreciate your words of wisdom. Since H is all over the map, its hard to " stay" anything at the moment. He's in, he's out, he's in again. Sometimes all in a matter of hours. But it is getting easier-- sadly enough. I am getting stronger.
Though tonite I do not feel very strong as I am pretty sure he is still in contact with OW. While they are no longer FB friends, he has liked her last 4 posts, just tonite, which go back a a few weeks when they unfriended. (Does that make sense, or no?) And I have not pushed acess to his cell acct and he has not freely given it.
Kml... That makes total sense. H does perform AOS, but I always thought it was his recieving LL too.
People who PERFORM acts of service usually have Words of Affirmation as their receiving love language; they do the acts of service in order to get the kudos.
Thanks so much 2T. My sentiments exactly. Really!
I just posted on HWs thread too, that for me, I need to lay my head down every night knowing that I did everything I could to save this M. And you're right--if we become the best possible version of ourselves and they still walk, then their loss!! Not that I want to become a doormat, or lose any self respect. I am hoping I have a good grip on that. Like you said, I just wanted and needed to be happy with ME!
This is sooo important for your PMA. Its interesting, though, that others will see us as being a doormat because we choose to work on a marriage while our H is acting badly and "wants out". They see only that we are in pain and that the pain is caused by an H who is treating us badly. In their eyes, that means we should run away...fast. What they fail to see is the history, the relationship and intimate knowledge of that H that allowed us to care about him and know that all is not right with him now. And how do you just leave a loved one when they are not ok? Instead of being a doormat, we are trying to be strong by standing for our marriage and hoping to outlast this problem with our H, while at the same time getting on with our lives and finding ourselves.
Its not so much that I am worried about his LL or trying to fill his tank. I have just NOTICED that his LL has changed. I read the book, and I don't remember a LL being able to change. But maybe he has been bilingual this whole time and I never noticed. But, when appropriate, I do try to tell him he looks nice, or thank him for helping with whatever. Not over the top fawning or gushing about his awesomeness.
My H's LL has always been AOS. But I have tried AOS back as well as WOA. He bats away any WOA. It also makes validating hard. Its as if he feels so badly about himself right now, so low, that he refuses to believe anyone could find any good in him. He does, however, want to be noticed for his hard work. It seems to be all that he is about, right now.
Cil, Yes, this is what my H is doing too. How do you validate and agree with feelings when they are telling you how YOU feel?
I've been thinking about this for awhile. I don't think you do validate that. I think this is where you set a boundary. A firm one. This is where your "niceness" stops. As in, "I will not allow you to tell me how I feel. I will respect your right to know your own feelings, but you may not disrespect me by telling me that you know better than I what I feel. My feelings are MINE.
Mel, I agree with ciluzen in respect to H telling you how you feel and setting a boundary. My H used to do that all the time. I had to tell him several times that he doesn't get to decide how I feel. He pretty much stopped doing it and when he does, I remind him again that he can't possibly know how I feel.
I think that's part of the justification stuff they use. I think my H decides I "feel" such and such a way about him (negative, of course) and therefore would never want him back, would never forgive him, etc. so it's okay for him to keep doing what he's doing.
I also wonder sometimes if that's a projection. I wonder if somewhere in all that fog, the thought process goes ... If 2T were treating me this way, this is how I would think and feel about her. Therefore, since I'm treating her this way, this is how she thinks and feels about me.
I also wonder sometimes if that's a projection. I wonder if somewhere in all that fog, the thought process goes ... If 2T were treating me this way, this is how I would think and feel about her. Therefore, since I'm treating her this way, this is how she thinks and feels about me.
This is an interesting idea, 2T. I've often felt that H was projecting thoughts and ideas onto me. I've also noted that others here have similar stories where their S seems to be projecting. I wonder if it is more the MLCer that keeps their thoughts to themselves that tends toward projecting because there is no one to bounce ideas off of or call them out on it; or if even those who share with others do it. I tend to reverse H's words a lot to see if that fits better when thinking of his projecting, by the way. For instance, "You don't like me" when surrounded by stupid examples of minor irritations, becomes "I don't like you". "I've held you back" and "I made you miserable" make more sense as "You held me back" and "You've made me miserable" when you take into account that he can't really read my mind.
I agree... Interesting. Along those lines, my H seems to think he knows what is best for both of us.
So he fell off fence tonite. He is leaving in June. Thinks a separation is what we both need. He loves me, doesn't want a D, would like to hang out on holidays, and go out on Fridays for happy hour. I told him I could not guarantee that.
He knows I have been snooping, counting condoms and Cialis and been talking to a counselor. He said two can play that game. I said its not a game and I did nothing wrong. Also to know that he must have been snooping too, and got into my email.
This is just so hard. He's in, he's out, he's trying, he's leaving. I did not cry tonite tho. Its getting easier. How sad is that? I just said 'ok, I prefer if you stayed, but if this is what you need" I listened some more, he tried to joke... Wanted to know if I could get his groceries and still iron his clothes. I said "Um. No"
I then got up and left. The house. He asked where I was going and I said " a drive"
I am at the bookstore.
Oh, Melweb - first off, great job not losing it, crying and not bothering to reason with him!!! Good job listening and validating. Nice job!! Really!!
Soon he will lure you back into a r talk. Stay consistent. Don't get dragged into it all as it will change and change. See how crazy his thought process is?!?
I don't know what advice to give you. My h threatened to leave as well. I think if he had, he'd be further along than he is now. But I am not sure how I would have handled that. Hard to tell as we get the MLCer we get and we have to forge ahead from there.
Hi Melweb, I agree with HaWho and think you did well with that one. What you describe does show that many MLCers just want the LBS exactly where they left them while they go off and explore life 'on the other side'...
You did well to stay calm and enforce a couple of boundaries I think xx
Thanks HW and Sotto. I think I did pretty good with that interaction. Like I said, its getting easier and these BDs (can I even call them that?) don't really surprise me. In fact, I would not be surprised if he changes his crazy a$$ mind again in a week or two. Or tomorrow. Or tonite.
He has taken it a step further this time tho and told S15 that he was leaving while I was at the booksore last night. I thought this was gonna be really hard for him, and was kind if banking on him not being able to do it. And I still think saying and doing it are two different things. Maybe it was hard as I did not witness it. He loves S15 more than life itself. Anyhow S15 shot a truth dart--- he wants to go back to state we just moved from, 1500 mi away. H has been adamant that he would fight me if I tried to take him back, and I needed to stay here so he could maintain an R with S15, for his support and of course the possibility of us working on M. I honestly was not making a decision until S15 knew all the facts. But I was really leaning toward NOT moving. But did not want to show H all my cards.
So H just came in to talk while I was typing. Mostly about me and S15 moving back. Logistically and financially, its not even really possible. Plus I have a job and an apt here. We would go back to nothing. S15 has one friend there he is missing and I am not sure that is reason enough. I guess I have some thinking to do, but H brought up some good points. How do we work on M and possible reconciliation if we are 1500 miles apart? Again I stayed calm and collected and just told him have some things to think about. (I find it interesting that he talks about this being a 'separation with possible reconciliation, ' yet in the same breath makes it sound a whole lot more permanent.)
I really am ok today. I am going to church then gym. I have some boring mom stuff like laundry, but I will maintain PMA. He does not get to rent space in my head today!!
I do think I have to move my cake but still unsure how to do that.
I agree with the others ... you handled that so well, Mel.
He loves me, doesn't want a D, would like to hang out on holidays, and go out on Fridays for happy hour. I told him I could not guarantee that.
I've lost count as to how many times I've heard a similar speech. My H actually admitted once that he was terrified he was making a big mistake and might come to regret what he did/was doing (leaving me).
Sotto is right. They want us to stay right where we are just in case ....
Oh-- I wanted to mention that H keeps trying to justify leaving by telling me that "if it were not for our financial difficulties, you would have left 100 times." He's probably right, but how do I answer that? He seems so fixated on the " shoulda, coulda, wouldas" , the past crappy M, and his own pity party.
Fence sitting [censored] and it will eat your soul. Want to stop all that nonsense? YOU file for D. It doesn't mean you two will go all the way through with it but it will force a "come to Jesus" moment where you're either going one way or the other. Right now he's a cake eater. He has a family and probably OW. Both whenever he wants them on his terms. No no no. You can't allow that. You have worth. You won't put up with that crap. He's back and forth as you say. That's no way to live. You're worth too much to put up with that. File for D. Shock the paradigm.
Some weekend musings:
1)) I cannot pull off "don't start convos and keep words scarce." For me, no matter how hard I try, it comes off angry and cold. And H has accused me of such. I can see why he does tho, because when I get angry , in the past, I was a "silent treatment" type of girl. I remember this from before-- I need to engage in friendly way, not over-do, not be needy and pursue-y.
2)H always brings up R. Always! And the dude will not let go of the past. I've have said "I cannot fix or change anything that happened in the past. We must move forward." His reply yesterday was "that is where I left my feelings. In the past." I said "I am sorry you feel that way."
3) When speaking of R, H is insistent that we be friends, hang out for holidays, coffee, etc. While I have told him that I cannot guarantee that, he almost gets angry with me--"Why not?! After 21 years?!" He kept digging. The more I try to just validate and let it go, my emotions got the best of me. While I did not cry last night during R talk. I finally said "Because I still love you and that will hurt me!" (Jeepers Mel--just STFU) There was more R talk after that. I gathered my senses, and did end up leaving the room first while he was still eating dinner.
On a more positive note (I guess :/), I have made an appt to see a lawyer this week. Just the consult, but I need to know what I might be up against. H says he does not want a D, so I am not sure how that translates when we are trying to maintain two separate households.
Speaking of separation, anyone have any advice on a "controlled separation?" Should I make some boundaries/rules? I am of course specifically referring to seeing other people. Maybe a time limit. I like the idea, but wonder if it is putting too much pressure, and it could back fire on me. Maybe those work for other situations but not MLC. Thoughts would be appreciated.
1)) I cannot pull off "don't start convos and keep words scarce." For me, no matter how hard I try, it comes off angry and cold. And H has accused me of such. I can see why he does tho, because when I get angry , in the past, I was a "silent treatment" type of girl. I remember this from before-- I need to engage in friendly way, not over-do, not be needy and pursue-y.
I'm the same way. I've tried and also sound cold. Then I end up apologizing for sounding cold. Which gives him power over me and he says (detached) you can sound however you like. He can pull off detached well...he's had years to think about this! So I stay upbeat and cheerful, busy, make eye contact and try to be fun. All the while busily preparing for the D to go final and the house to go on the market. It seems to confuse him, as I've told him before its not what I want. But by working hard for what I don't want, I see him moving slower... I think you find what works best through the 180s. Sounds like you are 180ing the usual silent treatment.
2)H always brings up R. Always! And the dude will not let go of the past. I've have said "I cannot fix or change anything that happened in the past. We must move forward." His reply yesterday was "that is where I left my feelings. In the past." I said "I am sorry you feel that way."
3) When speaking of R, H is insistent that we be friends, hang out for holidays, coffee, etc. While I have told him that I cannot guarantee that, he almost gets angry with me--"Why not?! After 21 years?!" He kept digging. The more I try to just validate and let it go, my emotions got the best of me. While I did not cry last night during R talk. I finally said "Because I still love you and that will hurt me!" (Jeepers Mel--just STFU) There was more R talk after that. I gathered my senses, and did end up leaving the room first while he was still eating dinner.
I'm usually the one to bring up R talk (not so much anymore), but I'm the same. We emotional wimmens and our teary "I love you's"! Yeah, my H wants to be friends, too. But that's friends on his terms, and he doesn't even know what his terms are. Holidays? Dunno. Working on the house? Never know which H I get. I HAVE figured out he doesn't like to call on work days (throws himself into work). I do believe being "friends" is a link that keeps the door open. Just figure out your boundaries so you take care of you.
On a more positive note (I guess :/), I have made an appt to see a lawyer this week. Just the consult, but I need to know what I might be up against. H says he does not want a D, so I am not sure how that translates when we are trying to maintain two separate households.
Speaking of separation, anyone have any advice on a "controlled separation?" Should I make some boundaries/rules? I am of course specifically referring to seeing other people. Maybe a time limit. I like the idea, but wonder if it is putting too much pressure, and it could back fire on me. Maybe those work for other situations but not MLC. Thoughts would be appreciated.
I really think you have no control in this area. No way of enforcing it? Maybe I don't understand. Would you
like to see others after a certain time or are you saying he should not until a certain time? Just clarifying. If it is an agreement to not see others for a certain time, prepare to have it seen as controlling and therefore a boundary begging to be crossed by an MLC mind. Just my thoughts.
Thanks for jumping over here to see me Tx. I know you are a fan of blowing up the fence so the fence is no longer even a choice. And I tell you... I am thisclose. I am not even sure her H knows. What has stopped me? 1) I am NOT good with confrontation at all. 2) H keeps hopping over the fence and claiming he is not ready to give up on us, he has cut contact with her 3)I fear it will not pave the way for reconciliation.
I do know I want/need to do SOMETHING to stop this back and forth crap! Its making me crazy!!
Cil--"Upbeat, cheerful, busy, eye contact, fun"--all on my to- do list this week. Also figuring how to stop his dang back and forth, like I just said to Tx. Thinking my 180 to this is: "Go"--its not what I want so I hesitate to say the words.
As far as the "controlled separation," I do not understand it either. Thought someone here might. As I was googling for info on 'separations', it came up as a choice. I guess its a thing, but maybe not pertinent in an MLC case as they are just whack jobs.
No I do NOT want to see anybody else, but I do not want this separation to be his "free pass" to OW either. Then when it fizzles out or she doesn't leave her H, he comes back to me and says "Ok--lets work on this M cuz I am done my A now" So yes--neither of us sees anybody else until x time is over. Maybe this a question for my L this week.
Melweb - yes, the MLC seesaw is unhealthy for you on an emotional, physical and spiritual level.
Have you read up on boundaries? Before you start looking into a controlled separation, my advice is stop and read over the boundaries info. This is very important when you have a cake eating MLCer.
Let me play devil's advocate and give you some things to consider. Let's say you set parameters for a controlled separation, will you actually believe he is following them? Is that realistic? What do you gain in this arrangement? Do you really want this? If so, why?
Back to boundaries. No one can set your boundaries for you. But, it's not as hard as it seems. The trick is to listen to your inner voice, NOT your fears of confrontation or your fears of not saving your m. You don't save your marriage at the expense of you. That is not a marriage. Remember the person you were long before all this started. Sometimes, your boundaries become apparent when you imagine the advice you would give your kids if they were in your shoes.
Once you set a boundary, you need to be ready to die on that hill. So best really to be true to yourself and not to just set them willy-nilly. He will test them so you must be ready to adhere to them. Otherwise, you lose all credibility and the floodgates on cake eating are open. This is very important (which is why it is best to take the time to get in step with your boundaries).
Once you have those you will feel more control because you will have your own personal roadmap rather than just reacting to him. He can have the moral compass that whirls around 'til the coils pop out from all the spinning. You, on the other hand, have your center, with or without him.
I had very similar conversations with H when he told me he found a place to move to. His explanation was that he needed some space to think things out. He told me he was scared he would regret it, but just felt it was something he needed to do. I told him I wished we could work on M, but if this felt right to him, it's what he should do.
When he told me he talked to S about it, I knew it was real. He even asked me to go with him and S to look at the place, to give my opinion. It was like living a bad dream. I was calm and did all this, knowing there was really nothing I could do, to keep things calm for S, and because honestly, I myself knew I needed the space from his madness he brought to our home!
I also looked for advice, on how to handle seeing other people. I asked H flat out, is this about wanting to see other people? He said no. I told him, just to make it clear, I am NOT ok with seeing other people while married, separated or not, and if he did, I am out of this for good. He again assured me, it's not about that.
With that being said, I don't snoop, but have not learned of any OW. If I ever do, I mean what I said.
We cant control what they do, but we can set a boundary. You just have to be prepared to stick by it.
As for cakeeating, I have much experience with that! I am sure most would say I allow it. I struggled with it, I tried the no having H around, no family time, no holiday stuff. For me, part of the problem was that we would all spend time together, and we would all have such a nice time, that it left me in an emotional heap after when H would leave to go home. However, not having us all spend time together hurt too. I finally decided to accept spending time together, for what it was, in the moment, knowing we would go right back to separate lives. It took me a few times, but I have gotten used to it. Honestly, we all thrive from it, S the most. Since doing this, I experience a closer connection with H. What it really comes down to....each situation is different. You should do what works and feels right for you. There is no right or wrong.
Hang in there, you are handling things really well!
Thanks so much HW and mleigh for the insight.
Oooohhh my elusive boundaries. What are they? Where are they? Come out, come out wherever you are.
Honestly not sure I have any, as pathetic as that sounds. I have some 'personal' boundaries: I will not watch him text "whomever" right in front of me, so I walk away. I will not go into his room if the door is closed, and because of his constant back and forth, no more sex until he can truly, honestly commit to M and prove his A is over. I know, I know--those are lame
At the moment, my biggest struggle is this A happening right under my nose. I cannot kick him out because of financial reasons. Nor do I want to kick him out--I want him to have to make that painful decision of walking away.
HW--good points on the controlled separation. How would I monitor it? And if a separation is for "space," then I def do not want to be his mommy.
mleigh--I really do want to be his "friend," the lighthouse, but I have those fears that it will be too emotionally draining/damaging to me. And what if he starts dating? I just don't know right now, which is why I keep telling him "I cannot guarantee that we will be friends."
He keeps saying he doesn't want a D, but needs space. That maybe he will miss me and realize in 6-8 months that he cannot love without me. True or blowing smoke up my a$$ so that he can continue A? IDK
I don't feel like I am handling things very well at all, but thanks
Feeling strong and confident today. Go me!!
I saw an L for first time yesterday. She reaffirmed some of the things I already knew and debunked some things H thought. I have no intention of filing-- he will have to do is own dirty work, but its nice to know I have someone on my side. Not sure if I am going to keep " interviewing" L's at this time or not.
No R talk yesterday. Phew. But could be because I was not here when H got home from work.... On purpose.
BUT R talk the night before. Mostly the same ole garbage that comes from him-- I will thank him in the future, more past BS, blah blah blah. Anyhow-- I just said "you're right, this is what you need to do. Go."
This morning, 5, yes FIVE, calls from him on his way to work. I usually get Zero. Of course, they were all biz related-- our house for sale, paying bills, his moving out, etc. Plus he thinks I am in denial, that I think he will change his mind before June. (Gee-- why would I ever think that, since you have changed your mind 5 times since the beginning of March??) Honestly at this point, I don't care if he does or doesn't. I want this M to work, but I can't do the "he's in, he's out" anymore. This is his journey, and maybe he needs to sit in an empty apt by himself to finish bakiing.
I will be ok.
Oh what a difference a day makes!
H admitted he is still having PA. And he is going to see her this weekend. I guess the lying got too much for him. I stayed calm and collected. Not sure what I actually said. I agreed a lot and said I understood a lot. He tried to tell she respects me, and I said I did not care what she thought of me. I wish I had thought of " Clearly she doesn't, or she wouldn't be having sex with my husband."And he told me she is afraid I will attack her. ( Not my style)
I am really beggining to hate this man that I have been trying so hard to keep. He is a person I no longer recognize. I so want to save this M, to be the lighthouse, but how? How in the face of lies, and cheating?
He cannot phyically leave this apt til June, so how do I act toward him? I am so hurt and confused right now.
Yes, he can physically leave the apartment before June..... He can do what unfaithful husbands who have been booted out of their homes have done for years: sleep on a friends couch or sleep in his office at work.
His company is paying for this apt til our house sells.
Ugh, I'm sorry Melweb - that's horrible. I guess at least you know the current status of things and can handle yourself accordingly. It sounds as though you handled the convo well Sweetie.
Wow, what OW said made my blood boil! I agree with you a truth dart would have been tempting - "I don't find sleeping with my H respectful." Or similar. My H told me - he hopes I'll see he's a genuine guy who may have made mistakes but knows what he truly wants now - a new family. MLCers want the situation to be 'good' (it's okay she respect you, it's okay I'm a genuine guy who knows what he wants now) - when actually it's bad.
It's tough, but do try to remember she is nothing to you and his problem only. She is not worthy of your time or energy. Would you look twice at your H if you met him right now? That she did tells you a lot about her. And I can tell you she does not hold a candle to you.
Without reading back, what do you intend to do in June? I do think he is cake eating, going to see her for the weekend and then coming back for more R talks with you. Do you think he just sees it as OK and that you are basically 'all but' S now?
Take care Sweetie - I think you're doing well in the most trying of circumstances xx
Thanks Sotto for the words I needed to hear. As usual.
I am trying to tell myself: What has she "won?" I know it has come up here before. Clearly she has won 'the short, chubby, depressed man" and I'll throw in drunk, lying, cheating bastard for free. Oh wait-- he doesn't consider it cheating, because he had already told me he was leaving back in November. I guess all those times he said he was NOT leaving and not ready to give up on us don't count. My bad! Yup, he wants to be the good guy in all this.
My H says similar things Sotto -- he's doing me a favor, and someday I'll thank him, that I'll find someone who loves me the way I want to be loved. Brings up the past waayyy too much. I have agreed that the past M was not good, and took responsibility for my side of the road. But it had its moments. And I really thought we were making progress. Again, my bad.
He did bring that up yesterday-- why I am so hooked on that 45 days of reconciliation? I said I guess you gave me false hope, but it sure seemed like we were making progress. He said he was confused. This is where I agreed.
Another thing that keeps getting thrown in my face is my EA from almost 10 years ago. Its not a thing that comes up often, only when he likes to use it as a weapon. I don't even think I knew what an EA was back then. I will not excuse it because it was wrong and I hurt him. Our M was in a pretty bad place, he was being verbally abusive, he was very depressed. I still made the choice. I have apologized, and said I never wanted it to go physical and I didn't want to leave him, I just wanted things to be better between us. In retrospect, I don't think we fully resolved it back then. Clearly.
June is when he can actually leave. We cannot afford two households right now, and he gets a bonus in June to pay off some debt etc, to make that happen. Plus we are hoping our house will be sold by then.
Things feel like they are going from bad to worse. I have decided that I need to call a doctor tho about my sleeping, or lack of, actually. And I have an appt Wed to see an IC.
The rational part of my brain knows this A has not a snowballs chance, so let it go and die a natural death. The other part keeps telling that rational part tho--" who are you kidding Melweb? There is nothing for him here. Clearly he has moved on."
You know, my ex told me he was doing me a favor too, by leaving while I was still young and attractive enough to find someone else. Made me mad as hell at the time. (I was 53 btw).
Still, in retrospect, I believe he was right. I did deserve better, and all the men I dated after my divorce treated me better than he had. I did eventually find love again. It would definitely have been harder to start this process at sixty. And I now suspect that there were more infidelities and flirtations than I knew, and I definitely didn't deserve to be treated that way.
If he's telling you that he's not good enough for you, he might just be right.
Ugh Melweb, I am not sure how you are doing it. I would have thrown out H as soon as he told me that. When you say "we" can't afford two homes, that is "his" problem. He is making his choices and you are making it smooth for him. IDK, I just don't think that is ok, for him to go spend time with her, come home, and let you know.
What advice would you give a daughter, or friend? Wanting to save your marriage is admirable, but having self love and respect comes first.
Like KML said, he can sleep on a friend's couch, like other cheaters. As for what your H told you about OW comment? It clearly shows what a train wreck she is.
Melweb - I am so sorry. That is awful.
I want to chime in and say MLCers love to photoshop, airbrush and crop this picture they are creating. Don't they have to do so? Who could live with their true story? Think of the true story of how these two met! You can't run and hide from that. Do not allow yourself to glamorize this for one second. They are two weak, broken people running from themselves and clinging to each other.
You've already received some really good advice about the living situation. My concern is that it seems the June date is up in the air, really, as it's not truly certain you will sell the house then, right? So, if it's okay for him to live at home 'til then, what if the house does not sell in June?
My advice is stop thinking about what "we" can afford. He is not thinking about "we." He is thinking all about "ME!" It's his problem!! There are consequences to decisions. See, he thinks everything should go his way with no twists. Is that how life works? Think about how crazy this is all getting!!!
MLCers are all about actions. You watch their actions and don't listen to their words. His actions say: "I am testing a boundary because I am a cake eater. Can I sleep around and still live at home?"
Well, can he? You do have control over the way you react.
Oh my gosh... I love you guys. Thanks so much kml, mleigh an HW. I so wish we could have a girls nite.
Heres the lastest: This morning I approached him, calm, cool and collected, and said this: "I think it is really rude and disrespectful, not only to me, our kids and our check book, but to her kids as well, that you are going there this weekend. I know you are leaving in June and it is for the best, but if the kids ask me where you are this weekend, I will tell them the truth." He bristled about " so much for being honest and I could have just lied." I said "yup" and walked away. Then he caught me before I Walked out the door to say "I'm not going. You're right, its disrespectful and I don't have to flaunt it. I was feeling pretty crappy about it anyway." I just said ok.
HW-- he gets a pretty big bonus in June, regardless if house sells. That is payin off all debt. At the moment we are paycheck to paycheck, so having him get his own place takes money from me to pay bills, buy groceries etc. Plus his company is paying our rent here til house sells.
What if this isn't MLC and the man just truly cannot stand me or wants to be married to me anymore??
That's not quite the right question. Of course it's midlife crisis, but there's no guarantee he'll ever come out of it, or come out of it in time for you to want him back.
The real question is, what do you want to do with your life? Living your best, most authentic life and becoming the person you are meant to be should be your goal. If H snaps out of it and wants to join you in your new life, great. If he doesn't return, or you decide you don't want him back....you'll still have your fabulous new life.
kml-- you are right, of course!! You are so wise.
And I really haved changed a lot in the past 6 months. All for good, and I know I am becoming a better person. For the most part, I like who I see in the mirror. Some days tho, I question my sanity, and my reasons for wanting to save a marriage to a man who is having an A and clearly doesn't want me.
Seriously?? I have lost whats left of my marbles?
Hold your head up high, put your shoulders back and focus like a laser on yourself and your kids.
Let him go. He is not setting the bar for you! No MLCer is!! This is not the man you married. Seriously, those of us with MLC spouses could troll bus stations at 2am and meet better spouses.
Turn your attention 100% onto you and your kids.
Do you have a dream? Are you working? If your husband had dropped dead instead of having an affair, after you grieved, what would you do to make a new life? What have you always been scared to try?
At some point many years ago (this was actually before my marriage started going south) I read a book that suggested making a list of 100 things you would like to do or accomplish. It's hard to come up with 100 things, but that's the point.... It forces you to just throw things out there, random things that come out of your subconscious.
Recently I found that list. To my surprise, one item on the list was "play in a band". I have no recollection of writing that and no idea where that came from. Yet several years later, I started playing the drums, and now I play in a band! Amazing the things your subconscious can make manifest!
Omg HW... You crack me up. Just what I needed. Thanks.
I KNOW this is MLC. I have read so much about it I could give a seminar. Some days I just go ... What am I doing? More importantly, WHY am I doing it?
I have let him go, as if there was any "letting" to be had. It seems pretty evident that he will be leaving in June. And I truly think it is for the best... For him. I also KNOW there is a reason this is happening to me.IDK what that is just yet, but I will let you guys know when I do.
Thanks everyone for the words of wisdom, the support and just listening to me rant. You guys rock
Good for you standing up for yourself, your home and your family. I had to do the exact same thing, when H was staying out all hours of the night. You did good, so proud of you!
Thanks mleigh. Kind of proud of myself too
I think he has managed to see her anyhow. And I fell for it. This morning he comes to me and says that someone from work has asked him out for drinks, he can put it on company credit card, he'll send me pictures blah blah blah.
I wasn't home when he left but he calls just as I driving in. We chat a bit then he says "Hey, is there any money in checking acct for Uber in case I drink too much? This place is 40 mins away." I say " Not really. I will have to come get you." He says "Ok. I will keep you posted." Now my alarms are ringing ...Looudly!!
So it looks like he did not take an overnight bag, etc, but the bottle of "tylenol" where he hides his Cialis is gone. HMMMM??!!
I guess it does not matter really, does it? I know he is having an A. It still hurt tho. I am such a dummy.
You know, my ex told me he was doing me a favor too, by leaving while I was still young and attractive enough to find someone else.
Same here… My H told me that we both can start new lives while we are still young enough. Well… I guess it is not quite working for him yet…
melweb, good job standing up for youself and telling him that he just cannot do things as he pleases and be disrespectful to you and your kids. Honestly, I don’t care much about OW (maybe a little about her kids though.) Looks like your H lost his ability to understand the boundaries. Wow! He lied, he told you the truth, then he is lying again… I guess whatever it takes to keep his A going… I think deep down he understands that he is doing something wrong. This is why he switched from hiding his A to telling you the “truth”, thinking that it would alleviate his guilt.
melweb, I’m so sorry you have to deal with this. You have it tougher than most folks on this board. My H had his Viagra in an aspirin bottle. I remember the feelings when I saw some pills missing from there. Granted it was post DB, when he stayed at the house to paint the newly installed doors (which were installed right before he delivered the BD, so he felt obligated to finish the job, thank goodness for that.) It still hurt like hell.
Breathe and get yourself busy with something. Take care of yourself. Don’t let yourself spin when he gets back home. Good luck.
Oh Mel, honey {{{hugs}}}
GREAT job standing up for yourself and your kids!
Mel, only you know what is right for your and your situation. We can all wish you the best, keep you in our prayers and give you the best advice we can, but truly, finding that calm place within will give you the answers you seek.
Easier said than done, I know.
I don't know what I would have done if I had physical evidence while we were still living together. I know I wouldn't have been as dignified as you were, that much I can guarantee. The Italian temper would have gotten the best of me.
If you're open to alternative health options, flower essences are great for this kind of trauma. They've saved my life in the past year, but they are not for everyone. There are also inexpensive white noise machines which sound like the ocean waves and that can sometimes help with sleep.
Right now I think the most important thing is for you to find a way to sleep and keep breathing through this. You don't have to do anything else today. Really basic caring for yourself. Once you have at least a bit of sleep under your belt you'll be able to be a bit more clear.
You are not a dummy! You are a vibrant, loving, loyal spouse who wants her marriage to work. Really take the time to try to figure out what you want, as others have said. I think it was KML who talked about what you would do if you were a grieving widow. That's great advice right there. Forget about your H.. He is in lalaland right now. Take care of yourself and the kids. My guess is the more your focus is on him, the better he likes it and feels like he can keep doing whatever he wants while keeping you dangling. Does he fish, by chance, cuz he's really working it to keep you where he wants you. The kicker: he's probably telling you the truth in each moment. That's how crazy they are.
Our job is to make sure we stay sane amid the crazy. Not. Easy.
So, try to get a bit more sleep and keep the focus squarely on you and the kids to the best of your ability.
xoxoxo
and I'm so sorry you are going through this!
Thank you both so much. This is a trying time, to be sure.
H sent a text last nite around 9-- 'I am going to crash on this girls ( yes, I said a girl. A 26 year old girl to boot, whose boyfriend does not NOT live her)couch and I promise its all good." I do not reply. He texts " Hey?" Then " Don't worry." (Famous last words.) I do not reply, mostly because words failed me , but an hour later I just text 'K (Keep in mind, I do not believe he is even there, but he expects to believe a 26 yr old girl is going to let a 49 year old man sleep in her couch!!)'
H walks in the door around 12:30 am. I'm already in bed but go down stairs and say " You drove? Thought you have been drinking" He says he laid on her couch for a bit, but he had stopped drinking around 6. He was fine so decided to come home and sleep In his own bed. I asked no other questions and went back to bed. To not sleep the rest of the night.
Man! He must really think I fell off that tomato truck. Honestly, I guess I did. I did not think he was telling the truth for one minute, but... But what?? Idk anymore. I guess I stupidly had/have hope. Because he gives it to me or because I see it where isn't? Probably a little bit of both. After he decided, or I decided for him, that he was not going to see her this weekend, he 'picked me.' He could have said 'FU Melweb, I am going to do what I want to do." But he didn't. Other "signs"-- Friday I had beer and pizza alone because his boss called. I was not in kitchen went he went down, so he called me down to have another beer with him. And he still calls me 'hun' or 'babe.' And he has gone from getting an apt in the city to walk to work, to one in this town, to one right here in this development. Doesn't sound like a man who wants to get away from me. Sounds like a man who is, or will be trying to, cake eat. And I know and fully am aware of that. I was trying to be civil for the next two months, be the best Melweb I Could be, so it would be hard to walk away, so he could look back and say "What have I done?" And maybe that won't happen. But at least I took the high road, and can be proud of my actions, or inactions as the case may be.
As I read what I just wrote, I sound totally desperate. Hanging on to every word, sign, clue. I did not think I was doing that. As much!! I really am ok with him leaving in June, as I think its for the best. I believe it is what he needs to do to continue this journey.
So for ME this week:
1) Detatch
2) GAL--going to a line dancing class tomorrow nite
3) I have an IC appt. I already have/had an IC after BD#1, but it was by phone and $125/ hr. Now I will get to go to an office and its covered by insurance. I am not sure if she is pro marriage/ SBT, but I will know after first appointment.
3) Check into flower essences recommended by bttrfly, to get some damn sleep. Anything in particular bttrfly??
Thanks again everyone. I find the support here invaluable. Not sure what I would have done without it these last 6 months.
Here's a line to stick in your back pocket and possibly use next time he suggests moving out but getting an apartment in the same complex:
"Oh H, do you really want live where you'll see my new boyfriend coming and going from the apartment?"
And when he says "wait, you have a boyfriend??" Tell him "no, but a good woman like me won't be lonely long. If you're going to date I think I should too".
It seems ridiculous, but most WASs have not considered that what's sauce for the goose could be sauce for the gander. They think you're going to be waiting as Plan B rather than moving on with another man, and the thought of you dating too upsets their fantasy.
(Bear in mind, I'm not suggesting you date...but H doesn't have to know that, right?)
Oh my gosh kml... I totally love that!!
He has actually brought it up several times during this whole sitch. That the thought of me with someone else kills him; that getting an apt here, he doesn't want to know I might be in here "banging" someone else. But he just says he'll have to love with it and its the price to pay.
So far, I let those comments slide with a shrug.
Yiuve had a suck so star of Bethlehem is always good for trauma. Honestly if you are drawn to something it is what you need ... Does that make sense? The Bach remedies are more expensive the the FES brand
Xoxoxo
Thanks bttrfly. I will def check into that.
Ok so I may have to eat some crow. It seems H was actually where he said he was. He left receipt out on the counter (on purpose, for me to see?) And there is no Cialis missing.
I might have played a little dirty pool last night. I put on H's favorite jammies. I had no expectations of course, and was not even sure he'd see me in them. But when I went downstairs to make a tea, he was already down there. He chatted a bit and then left. By the time I got back to my room, he had texted "You are very sexy. I hope you know that." I just replied "TY"
At the moment, I am walking a fine line between distancing and engaging. I get accused of being cold and angry when I distance too much for too long, but I don't want to engage too much either, because that makes me feel like what he is doing is ok, and I am enabling this A. Actually, its usually him that tries to engage me... he had to show me some facebook videos last night, then called me into his room to watch a program about Travis Roy-- I know his story and have seen it 100 times, but whatever. And he always pokes his head in to tell me to have a good day as he leaves for work. Again-- not reading anything into this, but actions, not matching the words
I am looking forward to my line dancing class tonite. Should be a blast!!
Thanks mleigh. Kind of proud of myself too
I think he has managed to see her anyhow. And I fell for it. This morning he comes to me and says that someone from work has asked him out for drinks, he can put it on company credit card, he'll send me pictures blah blah blah.
I wasn't home when he left but he calls just as I driving in. We chat a bit then he says "Hey, is there any money in checking acct for Uber in case I drink too much? This place is 40 mins away." I say " Not really. I will have to come get you." He says "Ok. I will keep you posted." Now my alarms are ringing ...Looudly!!
So it looks like he did not take an overnight bag, etc, but the bottle of "tylenol" where he hides his Cialis is gone. HMMMM??!!
I guess it does not matter really, does it? I know he is having an A. It still hurt tho. I am such a dummy.
He'll continue treating you badly as long as you allow it. You're worth more than that!!! Don't take that treatment from anyone. Ever.
Hi Melweb, I think he's cake eating with that comment about finding you sexy (though I'm sure you are lovely of course
)
But he's currently having extra-marital sex with someone else and you are thanking him for telling you he finds you sexy.
Truly, you don't need any affirmation from him at this point. You are lovely already. And if he does that again - you may want to consider telling him you find a comment like that inappropriate, given his relations with someone else.
My H seemed keen on us keeping something going soon after BD - and keen to keep seeing OW too. I told him there would never be any sort of romantic R with me, when he was having a R with someone else. I wanted no part of that. Now, you may look at my sitch and see I'm in the final stages of my D, but I have no regrets on what I told him and my self-respect is intact too.
Something to think about anyway. From what you post - my guess is he may well choose to eat more cake if he has the option.
X
suck should have been shock, thank you auto-incorrect
I actually thought 'suck' was right, bttrfly.lol. But 'shock' is good too.
Sotto-- Damn, why did I not think of that?? I guess I was rather surprised by it. I kind of did not know what to say. Tho-- "Does your girlfriend know you say these things to me?" came to mind.
I understand what you are saying about the cake eating. I feel totally stuck in the middle-- a place I do NOT want to be. I have to live with him til June, so trying to be civil, but not a doormat; not be too friendly, but not cold and angry (that was one of my 180s) Hey, honestly, I just don't know what I am doing.
TxH-- I thought I did pretty good when he told me he was headed to OWs for weekend.
Btw-- I went to a line dancing class tonite. Boy, was it fun. I laughed and even worked up a little bit of a sweat. Looking forward to going again.
Ok, so the MLC crazy train has stopped again. At Melweb station, but who knows for how long.
H came home the night before and was telling me he was looking at townhouses with garages, etc. I said "okey dokey." (Really. I did,) I let him go on like it did not bother me and that its normal to have a convo with your H about moving out.
Anyhow, he asks me to sit as I have popcorn and then he says "Can you ever trust me again?" I say " its going to take time." He goes on about how it would be easier to leave because of guilt, and he launches into that Mt Everest analogy again. I just listen as he goes on, and basically tells me AGAIN he is not ready to give up on us. Then tells me "thanks for listening."
Before the night is over, I say A has to end and I need irrefutable proof. He says ok. In the morning he texts S15 that he is not leaving. (So now he involved our youngest and I am going to go full on Mama Bear if he starts jerking his chain too. Its one thing to do it to me, but something else entirely to do it to our kids.)
By last night he says he sent NC text to OW, unfriended and blocked her from fb and removed all contact info. And I can have acess to cell phone and email.
I am seriously guarding my heart this time. I have fallen for this too many times before. And as I said, I truly thought him leaving was for the best. For both of us. Idk whats going on in his head (nor do I want to) but I am looking out for me and my son.
Lolol....what an excellent example of dropping the rope!!!!
You stop fighting him. Agree he should move out. Go out dancing. And BOOM! It dawns on him that you might move on without him!
Sometimes nothing brings them to their senses quite like getting everything they think they want.
Nope. False alarm. He's leaning out again. He contacted her for "closure", because he had only sent a text before. Whatever!!
At this point, I don't even know. I am not even sure why I am surprised, really. I just know I cannot play his game anymore. I firmly believe if she was not in the picture, we would have a fighting chance, but he needs to believe that too, and he doesn't.
If this is MLC, it is the child h who is having the affair not the adult h. He needs to work those childhood issues out to grow up. It is his best chance at getting through this.
The OW is never about you. You can try to stop the A but those issues will still be there lurking. And if he stops, each time he goes back it will be worse. These are his issues to resolve.
Focus on you and your boundaries.
I know! I know! I know! All of it, HW, I know!!
Do you think this is not MLC though? Because some days, I feel like I am just making an excuse for him, and the dude just really means what he says, and there is nothing left--- of our M, in his heart, and he is just done.
I do still believe that he should leave, that it would prob be best, mostly for him, but for me too, as I cannot take this 'in/out' much longer. But he keeps coming back 'in' and I think he means it. I am so gullible!!!
Melweb - sorry if I frustrated you!
To me, that massive confusion he is exhibiting is ringing the MLC bell. I believe you mentioned he had a troubled childhood and unresolved issues there. He would have gone through denial and the anger/irritability. Sure, with all those check marks it's probably MLC.
You guys had a few stressful years there, too. The relocating and changing jobs would have taken its toll. Of course things would have been bumpy during all that!
We all have to keep working on taking care of ourselves through this craziness. It's a nutty place we find ourselves.
Oh HW. I'M sorry. You did not frustrate me. I am frustrated by H, myself and mostly this sitch!!
I know that even if/ when the A is over, he is still in MLC. And that is one slow moving crazy train. Yet, it def seems that OW is clouding his judgement (not that he actually has any right now.) He makes a decision to stay and work on
M, and 2 days later ( after he contacts OW), he's leaving again. Surprise, surprise.
Mel, I sometimes wonder if my sitch is really MLC, too. And I worry that I'm making excuses for him or trying to find hope that this will change.
I think you have to go with your gut and it's part of doing all you can for your M, regardless of the sitch. And in your case, it's a great example to set for your boys re upholding commitments and not running away or throwing in the towel when the going gets tough.
It sounds like your H has the same confusion most of the MLCers have. He's flipping back and forth between what he knows somewhere deep down is the right thing to do and the lure of what he's become addicted to (the A). I think that is something you have to let him figure out himself, unfortunately.
But I do believe that they compare the OP with the LBS, so keep working on you and being the one only a fool would leave.
Melweb and 2Times- I believe there is a pattern here. The fact that these MLCers react the way they do probably brands them as chronically difficult people. Clearly, they all have a very low levels of coping. They always had unresolved issues that always lurked there and they never knew how to resolve those.
I think they would have sought out easy going people who can get along with most anyone. My suspicion is, although they may not have exhibited this level of dysfunction for quite some time, they were more difficult than the general population from the get-go and yes, we probably all made our excuses for them because most of us are "let's just get along" types.
I could probably get along okay with a serial killer. I am far from perfect but most people say I am out of the ordinary patient. I think my h would have needed this kind of personality to deal with a lot of his antics.
Now that I look back on it, my h was always having an issue with someone. He always had poor coping skills, truth be told. But not like this: where he hid in a room! I think he blew situations up and it was probably a way of re-directing anger that he did not know how to process.
I know a lot about his childhood and it does give me tremendous compassion as a wife and as a mother myself. As nutty as he seems, given what he went through, he should an even lower level of functioning statistically speaking.
Some updates to my sitch and a confession:
I went to Mexico with H last week. I agreed to go, after first saying "no," during one of his "in" moments. And after several "in and out" moments that you all know of, I decided I was going for ME!! That I would have a great time regardless of which side of the fence he was on!! I bought some sexy dresses and underwear and, dammit, I was going!!
Well, the Tuesday before we leave H, has an "in" moment and by Friday he is back out. I'm like "Whatever, dude!" By Saturday night he is back "In" and asks me to look into MC when we get back. I say I need proof the A is over--I see the NC text he sends her and he blocks her phone # and on FB. The week in Mexico is awesome (or so I think!) We really did have a good time, hung by the pool, I got a spa etc. I saw him having fun, relaxed--I rarely see him like this. He is usually stressed/depressed because of work (and his double life probably)
By last night I am leery to ask for NC confirmation, but I must. So I say "I found an MC we might like, when is good time for you?" He says "nights." I say "A is over right? Because we cannot fix this if you are in active A." He says "yes, why do you ask?" Me: I am just making sure. When did you last contact her? H: Mexico. Me:Wow!!! H: Mutual friend reached out to me and asked me to contact her because she is not doing well. Its been 5 months, you cannot just expect me shut off my feelings. Me: No, but those feelings won't go away if you're still in contact with her. H: I'm trying.
Which is totally bogus!! He is not trying at all, not if he is still having contact and sexting her.
Anyhow, he says he will still go to MC, but I am not sure if its even worth it. (I know I need to go tho.) Says he wants to work on M, but afraid in 6-8 months, his feelings for me still haven't returned. (He needs passion remember)
I am dropping the rope. Again.
So H thinks that I think that he is "trying to" end his A, but I know that is a lie!!
He wants to have a talk tomorrow night after work, away from the house. I say "Because you leaving in June?" He says "I do not know." I say "I will not share you." He says "I know." I say "I do not think you do." He says "If the situation was reversed, I would not even be able to look at you right now."
So I am uncertain what the conversation will be about, but I need to set some boundaries. If he wants to have A, then he needs to leave in June. If he wants to work on marriage then get some balls and tell her that A is over and NO CONTACT!---Is that too ultimatum-ish??
I just cannot go on with this back and forth/ in and out anymore. Its killing me!!
I reached out to an MC, she says counseling is worth it as long as both parties are willing. It would start off more like discernment counseling, with more individual counseling, until the couple decides all other relationships are done and are ready to repair this relationship. If we get to that point, we move into actual couples counseling. I am still uncertain if this is worth it right now. Any thoughts on this?
Mel, your h sounds like he is still very confused and is trying to figure out which way to go. It sort of looks like he wants to keep you on the hook for now because he isn't quite sure what he wants to do. He needs that anchor.
I don't know if your insistence that he end the A or leave in June is an ultimatum or not (sounds like it to me) but I do know that you have to be willing to follow through with whatever consequences you say will happen if he doesn't end it (he moves out). Otherwise, you lose your credibility with him. Just like with a child.
You also have to consider that he will just lie to you about it if it continues. From all I've read on here, you have to let that affair die a natural death.
Regardless of all that, I'm sending virtual hugs your way.
By the way, my h frequently asked to join in on "my" vacations and we seemed to have a great time. But once we got back to the normal routine of life, all the MLC stuff came right back. I avoid vacationing with him now.
Thanks 2T-- I hear what you're saying regarding the "ultimatum."
And its really not what I want to do. I wanted to: 1) Let him make that very hard decision of walking out on his family, instead of kicking him out 2) Let the A die a natural death -but it seems to picking up a life of its own, and its happening right under my nose!!
I do not want to be a doormat.
Hi Melweb, we S at BD so my sitch is different - but I can certainly understand you finding the situation intolerable.
My H seemed unsure about things for a while. We met up once and chatted, had a big hug. He seemed wistful and later told me how swept away he felt by me and how he so wanted to hold my hand. But I later found out that he was all booked to fly off and visit OW the following weekend. Ugh.
When he later told me about wanting to hold my hand and be romantic. I clearly told him that there will be no romantic R with me while he is in any way involved with someone else. Now, I haven't seen him since that point, he is still with OW and he filed for D. But actually, I never regretted saying that to him, and I never wavered on that point either. It was a sanity saver.
I would say - think primarily of your own comfort and sanity here - and protect those things first and foremost. Xx
my thought is IC could really help you sort thru the myriad feelings you are experiencing right now. you are going thru a lot, and the support would be helpful. Have you a DB coach? it's sometimes hard to find someone pro marriage is why i ask.
Mel only you can determine what is right for you moving forward. You need to find that still, quiet place within you wherein lie your answers. Keep breathing. Do you meditate? Do something physical to get rid of the stress. Even a walk will help get that excess energy out so you can get closer to that stillness within.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. xoxoxo
Thanks so much Sotto and bttrfly. I appreciate your support.
SO I cut H off at the pass. He came to ask me where I wanted to go tonite for drinks and "the talk." Me: I don't care. But I can save us $50. Just tell me if you are leaving in June. You've told me 5 times already. It won't be a shock. H: Yes,I think we should separate. Me:I think so too. This is emotionally and physically killing me. Calling her from Mexico was the ultimate betrayal. H:I didn't call her. (Semantics here--he texted/sexted her) Me: In fact, if there was a way for me and S15 to not be here when you get back (from biz trip), I would do it . H: No sense in bringing S15 into this, if anyone should leave, it should be me. ME: Ok. If OW is the one you want, then go. I hope you two are very happy.
At the moment I am ok. I needed this to happen for my sanity and health, like Sotto mentioned. It wasn't an ultimatum after all, so I guess that part is good.
Here is where I am at right now, in no particular order;
1) I still love him (just not his actions)and want this marriage to work.
2) With all my heart, I do not want him to leave in June, but I do believe it is for the best, for my sanity and for his consequences.
3)I do think this A will die a natural death as there are just too many negatives against it--ie.. they are both still married;they live 3 hours away from each other in different states; when he leaves, he is not going to be living with her--so jumping ship but not onto a life raft, per say.
4)I would not be surprised if he comes back "in" some time in the next 5 weeks, before he leaves in June (IF he leaves in June. Saying it and doing it are two different things!)
I have decided to go to IC. In order to take my insurance they need a mental health diagnosis, but I am pretty sure I qualify for depression right now--not eating or sleeping very well. I am not sure if she is pro marriage but I will make sure before I go further with her.
B--I do walk at the gym and yoga. I love both. I try to meditate but find I have ADD, especially right now.:/
H is basically out of town for the next 3 weeks, home on weekends. I can use the breathing room for sure. When he is home, I will be happy, upbeat and confident--he does not get to be in charge of my emotions any longer!!
Hi Melweb, I'm glad you had that convo on your terms and were strong throughout. I'm always a little wary of posting - I think you made the right decision - because am I just trying to reinforce my own earlier decision.....but anyway - I think you made the right decision!
You know already that your H will continue to try and keep you 'hooked in' and will be in touch with OW covertly. From the very bottom of my heart, I knew that wasn't something I could live with. And I understand why you would do this for your own health and sanity. Those are the top level priorities here - your own health and sanity, your family and finances. If we can all come through to the other side with these things intact and good PMA - it's a win - however things ultimately unfold with your H.
I just posted in my sitch - well, if he wants to grab the wooden spoon instead of first raffle prize (moi
) well that's up to him. I hope you can feel the same way about your own situation, and start making some lovely plans for yourself.
Take care xx
Hi Mel,
That was very brave and strong of you and I'm proud of you for taking this approach. I know it's hard to meditate right now. You can do a walking meditation where you walk and focus on breathing - just breathing. That's all you have to do today is breathe. You've taken care of all the other immediate things. Focusing on your breathing will help slow down your mind.
Again, I'm so sorry it's come to this. I do believe your H loves you. I agree with you that the probability of this A blowing up in a very short time is high. What I would not like to see is you waiting around for that to happen rather than pursuing your own GAL activities, but I think you're too determined for that.
Stay strong - we are here for you xoxoxo
Thanks Again Sotto and bttryfly.
And I hope you're sitting down!! H came home from work Friday nite, we chatted, I am cordial. I am just sitting down with dinner, he gets his own and joins me. More cordial chatting. As I get up to take care of my dinner dishes, he says "Melweb." And its a tone I KNOW that R talk is coming. I stop and say "Yes." H says " Lets do MC." Good thing chair is still underneath me, cuz I plop right back in it. Yup-- he's not ready to give up on us, he can't help but think he'll regret it, etc. We get interuppted by S18, so convo stops.
We later pick up where we left off, and he admits he is confused, trying to stop A (its him, not her), but really wants this M to work. I remain calm and collected, and let him talk. I say, "at this point, I just need to know its over, and that you are single-minded in making M work". He says yes.
Sat night he says "no contact with OW. And she won't pursue him. She's not psycho." ( I beg to dffer, but I STFU)
I am guarded at the moment. I've been riding this crazy long enough to know it can switch tracks at any given moment. But the door is open. He can walk out in June, or he can choose to stay. But he can no longer have one foot in and one foot out. Its just too emotionally damaging/draining for me. I can live with an MLCer (thanks HaWho), but I cannot live with an MLCer who is having an A right under my nose!
I am off to church this morning, then the gym, and even a walk outside. Its beautiful weather here today. I am going to take advantage of the sunshine.
Happy Sunday everyone.
Well!!! He made it 4 whole days!!
Just found out he contacted OW yesterday while he was out of town.
Pretty stunned right now, but idk why. This is not new to me.
Not sure what to do right now-I need to process.
I'll post more later
Mel, I was reading something recently about MLC men in As and the gist of the article was that they like having two women "chasing" them. Here was the advice it gave. Don't play the game. Let him go to his OW but hold on to your self-respect and dignity by going dim and cooling you interaction with him. She will be straddled with the responsibility of meeting all the needs you've always met and she won't be able to do it because she doesn't know your h like you do. Right now he's getting his needs met by two women and stringing both of you along. As long as he can keep doing that and as long as he thinks both of you "want" him, things will not change. She's not going to stop chasing, so you have to.
Maybe that applies to your sitch, maybe it doesn't. It just made sense to me.
xoxoxo
2T-- That totally makes sense. And I believe that is why he has come back "in" the last 2 times. (I counted today; he has been "in/out" 7 times since the begiining of March) I have told him that I think leaving is for the best, and if its OW he wants then he should go-- twice. I'd love to read that article!!
Ok so when H got home from work, I am dim; he asks about my day, I ask about his and walk away.
He sends me a text that he thinks he should leave. I go downstairs and ask him "why?" H: I am in love with someone else. Me: I guess thats a good reason. Honestly cannot even remember what else was said. The gist tho that he is sick of pretending, of living an unhappy life. He has weighed all the risks. Said he is feeling a lot of pain. Blah blah blah. Most crap I have heard before, but this was the first love admission. I was calm and collected. Validated where I could. Just said " yup, I think its for the best."
I did get angry once and showed him a text from 4 days ago where he admitted the A was just the thrill of the chase, and that he could still attract somebody, whether there was real connection or meaning, or not. And an I love you.
I Said maybe I should call OW, because he is playing us both. He told me I was being irrational. I said "I am?? You have been in/out 7 times since beginning of March." I had to walk away at that point before I said something I might later regret.
Melweb, I agree with what 2T said. I know it must be difficult, but you need to find a way to treat him like a roommate right now. He is confused. And he is trying to have it both ways. But more you get on his case to stop any contact with OW, the more he will be tempted to continue. Like they say, “the forbidden fruit tastes the sweetest”.
I would not do anything right now. Like we like to say here, when you don’t know what to do, do nothing.
Not sure what to do right now-I need to process.
You do know what you need to do. You just don't want to do it. I understand that. I do. Still, you know where this is heading.
Hi Melweb, I'm sorry to hear that and not surprised. I think you have the answer here already - I suspect he will continue to shuttle back and forth in confusion. He isn't likely to put an end to that pattern any time soon. You however can if that's what you choose - you don't need to remain a point on that triangle.
X
Thanks BF and Sotto.
I am feeling less and less confident with each BD. Seems his mind(?as if he actually has one) is made up this time. He sent a text this morning saying he is moving out, presumably this weekend, to an extended stay hotel until he can get an apartment. You all know I do not want him to do this, but my own words are coming back to haunt me-- its for the best!
I am in an ok place right now. Its not lke this is new territory. But riding this crazy train is emotionally and physically draining.
Maybe in future in instead of saying 'it's for the best' which could be read as 'this is what I want to' - you could say. Okay, I don't want our M to end, but if this is your choice I respect that. What I'm not willing to do is live in an open M, so if you want to continue seeing OW, I can see why you would want to move out.
And then I would go as dim as possible for a good while - enjoy being off the rollercoaster and make some nice plans for yourself.
I'm sorry things have come to this point - but I actually think the bouncing back and forth is the absolute worst scenario for any LBS, so to be out of that will be a positive I think.
Take care xx
mel,
Sotto has given you excellent advice. You need to put the situation back in his court and allow him to think about things and he will then make a decision. When you say "it's for the best" you are basically making the decision for him. Don't do it. He's got to think about moving out and figure out if this is truly what he wants w/o your pointing him in that direction.
Try the comments that Sotto has provided to you and then step away from the situation. Go on about your business and leave him to twirl in the wind. He's sitting on the fence and is confused about what he wants, but that doesn't mean you help him out the door. He's got to do that all on his own.
It's definitely one step forward, two steps back...but I know you can handle this situation.
Well folks. Maybe I blew it!! H is leaving tomorrow for a hotel, Until he is in financial shape to get an apartment--He thinks one month after we pay off all credit cards next week. He wants to tell the kids we are just "taking a break.", then still go out for dinner on Mothers Day. " for the sake of the boys." am not crazy about either of those ideas!!
I told him I would think about Mothers Day dinner. Mind you, this will be one day after we tell them we are "taking a break." Any thoughts on this?? I told him I would think about it.
It sure doesn't feel like he is on the fence any longer, job. This feels like a definite, made up his mind kind of thing. And I most definitely feel like I am not handling this sitch very well. Clearly, as he is bent on leaving!! My head is telling me it is the right thing for him/us, but my heart is crushed, thinking there us no way I can salvage what is left of this marriage. I thought I was doing everything possible not to help him out the door-- that was my intention!! HE would have to make the decision to pack his bags and walk away from his kids. That day has come-- tomorrow. He truly believes he loves this woman and is willing to nuclear bomb a 21 yr marriage for a woman he has known 6 months. And is married, with 3 kids, and lives 3 hours away!! Wtf!!??
Sorry-- I did not come here to vent. But thanks for letting me.
Hi Melweb, I think you are doing well in difficult circumstances. First and foremost, I think you need to accept his decision to go with no persuasion or reasoning - just respect his decision if that's how he wants things to go.
In terms of the 'taking a break' message, I'm not sure I would let him off the hook on this one. If I'm in a feisty frame of mind I would say - your Dad has been seeing someone else for a while now and has decided to move out. If I was more moderate, I would say - your Dad has decided he needs to move out. I think letting him get away with the 'taking a break' (this is mutual, we'll see how things go....) is a bit much.
I guess the main thing is getting a balance between what best supports your kids and maintains your own integrity and self-worth during this difficult period. What do you think that would be?
You may also want to say to him - I'm not willing to continue doing family things with you if you decide to leave the family. I'll make separate plans for Mothers Day with the kids. I said similar to H after we S (he suggested meeting up with S for an afternoon and I told him no - participating in family stuff whilst you are having an A isn't something I can offer.) He accepted that.
Him leaving does not equal the end of your M and so try not to feel hopeless. Some sitches need to go through S in order to start to recover. We none of us know how things will unfold.
Take care Sweetie xx
mel,
I am so sorry that he has decided to leave so quickly, but I'm not surprised since Mother's Day is considered a celebrated holiday and they do love to drop bombs before or on special days. Living in a hotel isn't cheap and he's going to have to purchase meals, laundry expenses, etc. So, I don't buy the living in a hotel until he's in a good place financially.
Both of you will need to sit down and tell the kids that he's moving out. Sotto is on the right track and saying something like "children, your father has decided to move out at this time". If he says that you are taking a break from the marriage, it allows people to think that you are in agreement w/the separation. You don't need to go into a lot of details about why he's leaving...but if the children ask, then he needs to explain right then and there the whys. Don't make this an easy for him.
Many of them get h@ll bent on moving out and nothing you say or do will change their minds. In his own way, he was hoping you'd tell him to go and he would come off looking like the guy his wife put out on the street. Obviously, he had been thinking about this move for quite some time and his plans finally came together just a wee bit. BTW, my xh did the same thing and only stayed in a hotel room for one night and then begged for space at the homes of co-workers until he got a place. It's not uncommon for them to pull a stunt like this.
Yes, it is unbelievable how they will leave good marriages for someone that they've known for such a short time. The "lust" gets them and that feeling of "being in love" just takes them over the brink w/promises of understanding them, i.e., stroking their egos. However, in time the lust shine will dull and the routine will become the same old same old and then they will begin to see the flaws in each other. But, that all takes time.
As for going to dinner for Mother's Day, I'm w/Sotto on that one. If he walks, then he certainly wouldn't be participating in this particular holiday celebration. He lost the right for a family night out when he walked. You and your children go out and have a nice dinner and enjoy the meaning of the day. Leave him to swing in the wind.
Please make sure your bank accounts are in a good place, if you have a joint account, now is the time to get your own account. Keep a close eye on the credit cards. He's going to spend money because he thinks he's entitled to his freedom and fun.
BTW, don't apologize for coming here to vent...it's a safe place and that's what the forum is for. Stay strong and don't allow him to see you sweat today. If he moves out, then so be it...but don't get into a heated argument w/him. Leave him to his packing and go about your own business in your home.
I'll be thinking of you today and praying that things settle down.
Hi Mel,
I'm so sorry your H has decided to move out. I know how painful that is.
Job is right. They seem to be masters at dropping bombs around special days. I know that's been the case in my sitch. My birthday, Thanksgiving, Christmas. Ugh.
My suggestion would be to let him go without a word and without lifting a finger to help and then go very dim. He knows this isn't what you want and there isn't anything you can say right now that will change his mind. I think sometimes we have to let them figure out that what they thought was greener pastures was all a misguided fantasy. But you can't tell them that.
I'll second Sotto and Job. Tell the kids in a way they can handle that H has decided to move out. And don't do a family Mother's Day with him. He's chosen to walk out on the family and he's not entitled to be part of days like Mother's Day.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. Stay strong.
Hi Melweb - just here to lend my support and let you know I am thinking of you.
Let him go spin out there so you can really take care of you and your kids.
Ugh.....it's lousy, I know.
I know everybody wants things to be the best they can be for the kids. But your boys are old enough to know the truth, and I don't think that lying to them about a "mutual" separation or temporary thing is right or fair. You don't have to get into details, but a simple "your father has been having an affair and has decided to move out" is sufficient.
Meanwhile see an attorney ASAP and file an order for temporary support.
I totally agree on not having him on Mother's Day. He might as well start feeling the consequences of his actions immediately. And nothing wrong with calmly slipping in a couple of truths, such as "you know you're going to regret losing a good woman like me" and "just remember, if she'll cheat WITH you, she'll cheat ON you". He won't admit those things but they'll stay stuck in his head, trust me.
Now do something fun with your boys tomorrow. Go see the new Marvel movie. Put on a brave face and let them know that the three of you are still a family and that you're all going to be fine. They will need you to be their rock.
Thank you so so much Sotto, job, 2T and HW. I love and appreciate the support and words of advice that I continually get from you guys. Feeling the love for sure!
H was gone when I got home from grocery shopping.Not sure to where but not my monkey, not my circus. Boys are still asleep. I am surprisingly ok!! I bought myself some flowers, some steaks and a cheesecake at the grocery store. I want to stay home and make dinner with the boys and enjoy NOT being on the roller coaster for the time being. H is not invited-- I am not his mommy after all. H can spend the day alone as I am sure OW will not be available for a tryst tomorrow. But then again, maybe she will--what do I know?!
I am going to tell the kids that he decided to leave, but will leave the affair out (for now) unless they ask. I will not lie for him.
Deep down I know this is what is best for him to get his head on straight, but I honestly didn't think he could/would do it. My heart is telling me its only temporary and surely he will see what he is missing, that OW will never leave her H and he will come running back ready to make amends. But my head is telling me ---"YO stupid. Get real!!" I wish they both would STFU!!
This weekend is about me, and I am going to make it that way!! I am going to the gym and get a tan later. Maybe hit the bookstore. I also bought some yummy looking alcoholic beverages that are just calling my name (Hey--at least something is!!)
Again--I love you guys for all the support. Happy Mothers Day to you all. <3
I Mel, just happened to check by the forums and saw your post.
Just my 2 cents, but unless the boys ask, I wouldn't be the one to tell them about OW. My fear is that may come back to haunt you. At some point H might use that to accuse you of tainting his R with his sons. If H goes the full fledged MLC A route, he won't be able to keep it secret and that issue can be addressed with your boys when the time comes. Just my 2 cents.
Sounds like a you have a nice evening planned. It makes me want to run out and get a steak and cheesecake.
2T--agreed.And its not my style anyhow. Same reason I haven't called OW or OWs H--even though several people (my sisters) feel I should.
Yahh for cheesecake. It makes everything better. And its chocolate hazelenut. I just could NOT pass it up!!
FYI...H has texted 5 times already. Once to tell me where he landed and how much. etc. Then asked if I would let him come to dinner to see S15 some nights. Then to tell me he has no food and could he come get what we are not using.
I have not responded. Jerk!!
Ummm...no. And.....no.
He can take S15 out to eat on evenings that he wants to see him. He can buy his own groceries. Remind him that he has LEFT HIS WIFE FOR ANOTHER WOMAN and that you are no longer cooking for him. Don't let him cake-eat and enjoy still having those parts of the relationship with you while he's out wooing the OW. Let him get a realistic idea of what his life is going to be like without you.
Melweb - Sending you all my support. You are handling all of this with strength and intention. It is the first best way to approach things right now - make your decisions from a place of intention and you'll be able to navigate things knowing that, no matter the outcome, you will be able to show your kids what strength and love look like.
You are not his mother and you should never have to apologize for making decisions as an adult. Of course this is incredibly difficult on your heart but if you can move forward with the business of life you will be in a better position long term to be a good role model for everyone you love. This includes your spouse because if he witnesses maturity in action then maybe at some point he'll try to emulate it.
As for telling the kids about the OW. You'll know when or if you need to disclose this information. There are merits in always being truthful but if you are telling them a fact to obstruct their relationship with H then you are ultimately contributing to some blameless people. Perhaps this weekend is better spent on steak, cheesecake and quality time with your boys. Hoping you enjoy the day.
Thanks for the support kml and 123Gwen. I need all that I can get at the moment!!
Ok so I told the boys. Man that was hard!! I cried. I told them that "dad has decided to leave and live in a hotel until..I don't know when. I do not know what is future plans are." S15 says "Maybe he will change his mind like he did before." I just said "maybe, he's actually changed his mind 7 times." I told them the usual... its not their fault, he still loves them and he will always be their dad. Neither had questions or concerns or comments. I left it that. Later I asked S15 if he had heard from dad and he said yes, and he read me the text: "I am living in a hotel while mom and I work this out. I am not far so I can come have dinner with you. Don't worry, everything is going to be fine." I said ok--just wondering if you had heard from him.
H texted me 30 times yesterday!! Yes, THIRTY!! First about the dinners, the laundry, the food. I reminded him that he fired me. He asked a couple of questions. I replied with a one word answer. Later told me to go out with boys for Mothers Day, asked what I told them and then asked Hows things? When he finally realized I was not answering him he said if I want to cease communication then to just tell him. 1/2 hour later I replied that I was shutting my phone off and I would talk to him Monday.
He sent me a text this morning saying "Happy Mothers Day. You are a wonderful mother and our boys are lucky to have you as they grew up caring for them." I will not respond to that today.
So here's a million dollar question: How do I balance a "DB/marriage saving/hope for reconciliation" stance with an "I will not enable your affair/let you cake eat and think everything is okey dokey" stance"? I feel like I am walking tight rope over the Grand Canyon.
You know guys--now that he out of the house, my nerves are less edgy, actually had an appetite last night and looking forward to today with my boys. Steak and cheesecake...yahh!!!
Hope everyone has a wonderful Mothers Day!!
Good for you, Mel. I am amazed that he would have the gall to ask for food or ANYTHING to help him out after he left. Then again, I'm not. Enjoy this day that is to celebrate your status as a mother. It is for you and you alone and you deserve to spend it with your children how ever you please. (((Mel)))
Hi Melweb, this is JMHO but as your H has been trying to significantly cake eat, I think it is worth taking comms down to a bare minimum. Definitely very dim and purely about child logistics. If he asks general questions about you, just ignore them for now - or respond to one in ten (if he's texting 30 times a day!)
Let him have the message loud and clear that if he chooses to continue a R with OW and live elsewhere, there will be no R with you other than as coparenting and that will be on a minimal basis.
I would say to have a look at LRT and follow the advice there - also, have you read much about clinging boomerang contact types during MLC because I think that's what your H is.
The main thing just now is to get settled, look after yourself and your kids. Try not to worry about any immediate plans to try and save things and let him drift about on the ocean for a bit. Just focus on not doing anything to make things worse and leave him be for a bit. The very act of moving out and having very low comms with you may well be enough to provoke some thought at his end.
Take care and I think you're doing really well in tough circumstances ((((hugs)))) xx
You can also throw out that you'd be happy to talk with him in marriage counseling, but otherwise, this is what it looks like when you leave your wife for another woman. You can repeat "I love you but I refuse to share. I am not your Plan B."
Be kind but firm. He's feeling confused and torn between his affair and his marriage. Give him the opportunity to miss you.
Thanks Cil--hope you have a great day too.
Sotto--I am def going to be dim and keep responses to a minimum. (But 30 times!! Jeesh!!) I worry as "the silent treatment" is 'more of the same' for me and I 180'd that after first BD. (But then again, he changed the game when he walked out yesterday!)
I have reread LRT and After LRT when H won't stop seeing OW. And yes, I am aware of Clinging Boomerangs---its my H to a T!
kml--boy you have some great suggestions. I love those answers
BTW--I came home from church today and H had been here. He left a card and some flowers. Jerk!!
Hi Mel,
Happy Mother's Day. You are a great mom and hope you had a wonderful day with your boys.
Just catching up here and want to say I'm so sorry it's come to this, but wishing you peace - or as much peace as you can have in these circumstances. I think you're right to leave OW out of the conversation with the boys. Let H have to deal with that.
I'm wishing you all the best. You've been getting great advice here. Just lending my support as well xoxoxo
Hi melweb,
I'm just catching up with your thread, I just wanted to say how sorry I am about the way things turned out (so far). I admire how you handled telling the kids, you must be really proud of yourself. Sorry I have no actual advice on how to balance all those issues, but maybe now that he is out of the house you will be able to reflect on what works best for you and your relationship.
Take care of yourself and your boys
Thanks Esame.
Guess who showed up at midnight last night?? 3 guesses, and the first 2 don't count!!
Said he was sorry, this is where he wants to be, he doesn't love her, he wants to go to MC, etc...
As much as I want this M to work, I am not sure how to proceed with this. Especially since it will be the 8th time he done this.,
Needs to be OW free for a period of time before you'll consider possible R?
Your h needs to cut all ties w/ the ow, as well as being transparent in what he is doing, i.e., telephone, email and text messages. If he wants the marriage to work, he has a lot of work to do and to earn your trust once more. Taking him back over and over again is too easy for him. He has to do the work in order to come back to you. He's been living in a revolving door entirely too long. Time to shut that door down and if he truly wants to reconcile, he will need to find a way to do it w/you.
BTW, it's time to start a new thread.
As far as I can see there has never been any repercussions for his actions. He acts horribly then trots back home as if all is well. One of these times he comes back and says this is where I want to be, you need to respond maybe so, but I'm not sure this is where I want you to be and it's my decision, buddy.
Hey, Mel! Its been awhile. Hope you're ok?