Thanks for all the support today. I feel so blessed to have a place where I can share and friends know me and the sitch AND understand what this is like.
-Job, not going backwards. Promise. Won't do that to the girls. Not an option. Came through too much to go backwards. Based upon past experience, he surfaces and goes under again.
-Ellie, this is some ride. Im glad you pushed me hard to get the legal stuff handled. This is so SO DIFFERENT knowing the money/retirement won't shift when the wind blows again. I'm not bringing up 12 steps right now. This is his gig now, not mine. I'm no longer his wife.
-Bright- thanks for being curious too!! Haven't asked. Three years ago, I wouldn't be able to resist the urge. Now... I have my own life and she doesn't really matter one way or the other... Just curious.
-Brook!!! Love you lady and miss you too. Promise, no easy way back into my heart... Not after the Hitler regime.
Sotto and Ha, Thanks for dropping by!!!! Things get easier. I promise. You will learn you have strength you never imagined.
Ha, I love how spot on you are with your man-boy. You both seem to have a handle on this and perspective which takes many of us years to develop.
Sotto, I admire how you have pushed through the stuff you don't want. This shows amazing strength to let go when you don't want to. When you want to hold onto a pant leg for dear life.
Matt gave us all the gift of a glimpse into the other side today. Appearances are deceiving. He signed D papers less than three months ago. Masked depression is cunning and don't imagine for a minute your spouse is happy. OW doesn't matter. She is a convenient and temporary solution to a permanent problem. Not someone of any significance.
What I learned from this episode:
He is alcoholic, but that didn't kill our marriage.
I have problems with money and other imperfections, but that didn't kill our marriage.
This man has a hole in his heart he has tried to fill and hasn't found the source of a problem which started long before we met...THAT KILLED OUR MARRIAGE.
He said it himself. I'm still hurting. I miss you guys every day. I ask God what He wants from me. What he still can't face honestly is the evil of his behavior.
This is almost four years since he left... Jan. 2012
BD: I was told I was a burden to him.
Today: he was worried he was bothering me. HE was a burden to me.
Four years almost to the day.
Wow Lois, you know the most impassioned thing H said to me a few months after BD was he had a hole right in the middle of his heart and he felt empty...
Very interesting to read what you wrote above.
Sounds like you are doing well and take care. xx
Heather you are an inspiration! I've read a lot of your threads. You have been through so much and have come so far ... keep moving forward. You are doing great!!! I'm in awe of you! xoxoxo
Thanks Butterfly. Don't feel like much of an inspiration. I have plenty of my own shid to wade through...
So, I was thinking of how to describe what it's like when the active addict/MLc-er has a moment of clarity and comes back into my already frazzled ADD-riddled life:
-Like Ol Yeller wanting to cuddle on your bed after he eats Grandma.
Lizzie Borden saying, "No hard feelings?"
You have made some big changes for yourself and really seemed to be focusing on you, and not on him so much. You drew him back in a bit, but please, try not to get immersed in his stuff again. He is so far from becoming the man that you and your daughter can have in your life in a healthy manner. Keep moving forward. Keep making your life the best it could be.
Thanks Ginger.
Ended up calming Cal down last night til two am. The call from her dad really got her spinning. Idk. She was sobbing--half hating him and half worried he will kill himself. He sent her a weird text apology like he does us.
Have had a couple people express concern over the FB stalking and suggest I block him. Idk.
Finished my copy for this week's paper, did a good job, talked to Matt (he called about Cal), made chili, hung out with housemates for a bit, looked for pants for Louisa, went to a DA mtg...talked Cal down from her convo/interaction with Matt--handled Louisa's clinginess--also par for the course when he appears... It's so exhausting.
He is really crazy isn't he? I'm beginning to see it. I mean he is wacko. Stalker wacky. Or am I just overly tired? He reads my FB page for info on his kids, on me. He uses Google earth to see where we live. Cal was sobbing because he went months not knowing her address, but looking us up on Google. He is frustrated--he told Cal--because he can't see our house tucked in the mountains.
It's all so weird.
Finished newspaper. Graphics guy is still working before sending pages... But, I'm done and can't go home.
Sent Matt a text with some boundaries.
The girls got really riled up... and so did I with this last episode.
Said... His showing up disrupts our lives. We are doing well and I will not have that happening. And, I mentioned that keeping a connection with his kids via Google Earth is a bit disturbing. I will listen WHEN... he has sought medical tx, expresses some humility beyond just words, shows some action...
He tried to hook me by saying, "Ok. I will leave you alone now."
Instead of doing my ol' "Don't go!"
I said, "Ok. Your choice. I respect that."
Googled two meetings for tonight... Nar-Anon in Asheville. Al-anon in the town where we live. I have the choice of either... OR, another D.A. meeting.
Thinking I need some family-of-an-alkie support for this week though.
Feel that pull to reach out to him. I know it will go away. So sad when he touches base, but... you know. The girls and I all express the same feeling... Want that person we love to get the help he needs. Want him to go away and leave us the EFF alone. Want him to follow-through. The scab gets ripped open again and we feel the pain of the wound like it's new.
Dreamt he was in our lives, but not. Louisa and I were at a park here in Asheville. An Army serviceman was on a distant bench smoking a huge joint.
So painful to be forced to turn him away, because it's the right thing to do for me and the kids. Cal was in tears. Louisa clinging to me. I was having difficulty focusing. Lost all of Sunday. It's not worth it for me anymore. Been there and done that. Not worth it, when he's only offering some words... No action.
He was actually fairly nice in response.
The co-dependent urge to fix him is passing. Taking so long though. I need to strengthen the resolve with help from others who love addicts. It will be good for Louisa and Cal too.
Going to try to work in a nap before the meeting though!
HI Lois
I have attended meeting for many years
They are very helpful to detach and let go
a lot of friendship there and support
You set some good firm boundaries and you are right
we can't FIX them ..
the solution is there,,they can see it ,but many don't want to get sober and clean
they will get clean when they hit their bottom
It is impossible to have a relationship with an active addict
It is better to understand the disease so you can protect yourself and teach your kids
Like your situation, my XH was also sober for many years..I believe her relapsed when he hit MLC or who knows what came first
Thanks Peace. Always nice to know we aren't alone.
Ended up at home tonight. I'm not feeling very well. Cozy in my bed. Early bedtime sounds wonderful.
Cal managed to get a big school project done, I got my job done well, reached out for support and Louisa got her schoolwork done. Even with Mr. Regret poking his head out of his smokey cave. Life is still good. I'm just tired.
Struggling a little today. Matt has pulled back again. I know the drill. He reaches out, disappears. And, yes, I set the boundaries.
I just feel some of that withdrawal again--that little girl is re-experiencing the rejection/abandonment.
Could someone remind me why I set the boundaries? I look at my compulsions with spending and I think, "hey! Who am I to judge?" Not like I haven't done terrible things with money. I've hurt people... Yadda, yadda...
Why is he bad news again?
Honestly, I think it's more a matter of control with Matt. I'm his security blanket and he likes me in his back pocket. I'm not sure he even likes me much anymore. I'm the reminder of the bad shid he has done.
Answering my own question:
Why is he bad news again?
I didn't cheat. I didn't move in with someone else while married. I didn't abandon the kids for months/years. in fact, most of my overspending was to make things better for the kids.
Ok. I'm overwhelmed with all I have to do today/this week. He is a nice distraction. And, I think I'm angry because he comes in and teases us all--then GONE.
Victories!! Opened a bank account here. Got a big chunk of newspaper stuff done yesterday. Had a bunch of fun with Louisa yesterday. Got her a Christmas present she really wants. Got a great deal. Took some pressure off Christmas.
I think, under the desperate feeling... Tons of anger at this manipulation. How dare you come into our lives over and over and try to manipulate to make yourself feel better. He uses us to lift his shoddy feelings.
Heather,
I caution people that from Thanksgiving to March 17th, their runaway spouses may begin to poke their heads of out the rabbit holes and not to think it's a true blue reconnection. Why do they do this? Because they actually remember the good times, i.e., family traditions that they shared in w/their families and yes, it's also a reminder to us that they are still out there (whether they realize they are doing this or not is something that still amazes me each and every holiday season).
One thing...detach even more so and do not engage w/him on anything but the children. The divorce has settled up everything else and quite frankly, you do not need this man popping into your life each and every holiday. He's bad news and it's evident that he still needs you as a security blanket. Time to cut the man loose. Your daughters are old enough to decide whether to communicate w/him or not. At this point in your life, you need to focus on you and your girls and create a new, happy and secure life for yourself.
Matt isn't good for you. He's not been there for you and the girls for a very long time. Yes, you can feel sorry for him, but when his communications take over your mind for any length of time, then that should be a sign that you need to keep your responses back to him as civil, but short and to the point. He needs to realize that you have moved on and what divorce means, i.e., you are no longer his safety blanket and he isn't your problem any longer. As for his questions about the pets...it's just to hook you into responding back to him. Don't take the bait.
Heather, you've come too far to backslide now w/the holidays around the corner. He's not happy and he certainly isn't too happy that life is looking good for you and the girls. He wants you right back where you were two years ago. Don't go backward...continue to move forward!
Heather -
I understand that you still care what happens to your ex. I still care about what happens to mine, even though he's being such a jerk these days. And I think it's ok to reward the good behaviors and ignore the bad ones. He may start turning into someone who could at least be somewhat of a fasther in his girls' lives.
That being said, the first thought that popped into my mind when I read your post was the Buddhist principle: "All suffering comes from desire". The contact from him causes you suffering because you still DESIRE a reconciliation. You need to free yourself from that desire and live your life. Let's face it, even if he were starting to come out of his tunnel, the man needs YEARS of sobriety and counseling and inner work before he could ever become a worthy partner to you in the future, and the odds of him doing ALL of that work are pretty slim. You need to live your life and look FORWARD, and treat him as you would a disturbed friend or younger brother.
Thanks Job and Ellie.
Blocked his number. Set FB to private. I feel a bit funny, but--he can connect with the girls without my number. There's really no reason for him to communicate. I sent a text with my mom's number in case there's some emergency I haven't considered.
He has been using my FB to watch our lives and, most likely, gather details to give his parents. I know his parents have stalked it too for pictures of Louisa. I'm done with that. Private Now. I'm not available so he can feel better about what he has done.
I can open a business page if I need to.
Feel a bit weird. Louisa and I went out and had some fun.
Have a busy week ahead.
This one guy keeps asking me out to watch football. I don't wanna watch football. Another guy wants to cook me dinner at his place.
I'm not sure I believe I deserve a relationship with a grown up man. I think I need to feel like a grown up myself first.
You should totally take up the too guys on these dates. Although I'm not so sure about the football date. Why start watching football with a guy if you don't watch it when you are alone?
I used to watch football all the time with my ex and now that I don't have a man in my life, I don't follow it at all. Its fantastic, I have gained hours of time back from my Sundays. No more football is one of the biggest positives of my divorce.
You are doing awesome. Glad to hear that you are blocking him from Facebook, smart move
Brook!! Hey lady!
I used to watch Football with Matt. One of our things. I don't feel much like doing that with someone else.
I think the dinner sounds nice. He is a really nice guy.
I need someone kind. Generous. Understanding and not critical... Easy-going. Sober. HONEST. Not into games, manipulation or loose with my feelings. I've been abandoned and rejected a lot. I need someone sensitive to this fact and respectful of my history. Would prefer someone well-read, intelligent sense-of-humor... Likes Monty Python.
I also want him to be sorta tall. A beard would be nice. Rugged. Six feet or taller.
I'm not available so he can feel better about the shiddy stuff he has done. If I'm facing my shid, he can face his.
Have a date with Football boy for tomorrow night after my DA mtg. I will be downtown anyway.
-Like Ol Yeller wanting to cuddle on your bed after he eats Grandma
You still crack me up, Heather.
I agree, the holidays are an odd time for many. Year after year you can see people that still haven't come to terms with their past doing weird things like he is. But that aside, you do need to do for you. Clean your side of the street. Mow your own lawn. Doesn't leave any room for an ex.
It's ok to care, but it's not going to be ok to allow him to creep around and invade into your life. I think you did the right thing to block the number and FB. You may have some reason in the future to communicate about the kids. But you don't have any reason here and now. You may have noticed that you're stronger than before. But you have more to go, and I think you noticed that too. What you may be missing is that you deserve to do more for you and about you. You deserve to be free from that and other items in your life. You need to make that happen.
Fun thing about dating. It's not about a relationship per se. It's about trying out new things with new people. It's a learning experience and one you can really start to enjoy if you give it a chance. There are ups and downs, excitement and disappointments, but that's just part of what makes it fun. Give things color. And you'll learn a LOT about yourself. What you like, what you don't like and what you aren't sure about.
Enjoy the ride and make it last. It can be a lot of fun, Heather.
AJ
Thanks AJ :-)
Louisa and I did this cool thing this weekend. The Biltmore had a discount on their season passes... $99 for one year. Christmas present to us both. Kids under 16 get in free with a pass holder. So, for the next 363 days, we can even walk our dog on the Biltmore grounds. For the past two days we've hung out at the Biltmore (inside and out).
Caught myself thinking about Matt. Wondering if he was going to reach out again... Blah, blah, blah. That's when I knew I had to block him. The whole FB thing really bugged the girls too.
It was the right thing for today. Trying to clear my head for the week ahead.
Feels a bit weird to wake up today, knowing Matt can't reach out. I can't reach out. Not an option. Also, weird knowing he can't see my life on FB. It's MY life.
Mom laid into me today. That was fun. Made it obvious she sees me as a failure. I had asked her last week for some help in paying some bills. She said Yes and it took some pressure off for Christmas. The Biltmore pass was one of two things Louisa wanted. I thought it was a done deal. She said she would mail me some help on Saturday. This morning, I get a call.
Haven't asked for help since we left Ohio. Not something I wanted to do, but felt I had to. With Christmas coming. She made it clear that I'm a deadbeat in her eyes. Got lectures about spending and finding a financial counselor.
When I told her I was in a program for recovery from debting and so forth... I got the heavy sigh and how silly I was for going that route.
She was fairly brutal. I tried to defend myself. I felt pretty low though and reacted more than I wanted to. There was truth in what she said and that's where I got stuck. Told her she didn't need to send the help. I would figure it out. "How? How will you figure it out?"
She made it clear that she sees little to no value in Debtor's Anonymous. Strange, seeing as how she devoted her 30+ career to helping alcoholics.
I know she is scared for me. I know there was truth in what she said. Truth nuggets. I know all that. I know she is tired of having to help me...
What's hard, for me, is how this is a problem we share. If anyone showed signs of having a spending problem... My mom is sorta the poster child. Her apartment has become something of a hoarding cave with her latest compulsion, second-hand furniture.
I told her how I blocked Matt. I guess I was hoping to get some acknowledgement for showing some strength in one area of my life.
I wanted to hear her say, "I'm proud of you for at least getting honest with how you are with money. I'm proud of you for trying. I'm proud of you for NOT finding an abusive man to support you, like I did."
When I made the mistake of saying, "Mom, what if you had to reach out to your alcoholic parents for help and your mom gave you advice on getting sober... how would you feel?"
Answer: "I would NEVER ask my parents for help. Ever."
Heather,
I'm glad that you and your daughter enjoyed spending time at the Biltmore. It's a beautiful place and has a calming effect on some who visit there. I think it's an excellent present for your daughter. She will enjoy many days there in the future, especially when the weather is warm and pleasant and so will you.
I know several people who have attended Debtor's Anonymous and it worked for them. So, please do not allow your mother to deter you from going. It works very similar to some of the other meet up groups. How will you ever be able to curb your problem if you don't have support and feel safe in speaking up? I say go if it's working for you.
I think part of the problem w/your mother is that you ask for help, but never pay her back (am I assuming wrong here and you paid her back for the trip to NC as well as her help when you moved a year ago). If you had paid her back in the past, she might not have had a problem helping you out once again. Maybe she thinks you should be up on your feet by now and more independent. It's hard to say what is going through your mother's mind, but it's evident she's tired of you asking her for help.
You might want to start a fund and each time you get change in your pocket, put it in a jar. Eventually the jar will fill and you'll have some extra cash to spend on fun things. It's just a suggestion, but I've done this for years and the change adds up.
Now that the holiday season is in full swing, have you considered getting a "seasonal" position at one of the local stores? It would give you some hours and also some extra $$$ for Christmas and/or your bills.
Heather, you don't need your mother's validation. I wouldn't discuss Matt w/her any longer. It's none of her business now that the divorce is over and done with. Be proud of what you have accomplished on your own in the last few years. If your girls are proud of you, that should be enough. You know that nothing you say or do will never be enough to give you the kudos that you richly deserve. You have to find a way to accept that she's not going to change this late in the game and there's no need to set yourself up for disappointment. Keep your conversations civil, but short w/her. When she gets on a rant about you and what you are doing, end the discussion politely and hang up. If she doesn't get the message, then she'll soon leave that conversations w/you will continue to be short and sweet. Please stop allowing yourself to be your mother's whipping girl....you are worthy of far more recognition than a verbal and mental beating from this woman.
Job, thank you. You said what I needed to hear from my mom. :-)
I need to come up with a plan to pay both my parents back with the help of a sponsor and folks in D.A. I will keep going. Have a meeting tonight.
Yep. I have some issues with money... But, I'm working on it and I'm being honest. I hate being honest. HATE It. Hate having this particular problem. I'd rather have any other problem. But, at least it's treatable and I have resources here I don't have elsewhere. There are actual face-to-face meetings.
I can do some really outta-character/terrible stuff when it comes to money. Why? I don't really know. I just do. I can have $3 in the bank with rent, car payment, food... yadda, yadda and I will find a reason to use the $3 on gum.
That's where I got stuck with Matt and his addiction. I see how I behave when I'm crazy on a money binge or avoiding my responsibilities. However, I have begun the process of getting honest and I've been willing to get help. Also, I haven't abandoned my kids for my addiction. Not that I'm any better... but, hopefully, I'm a little healthier.
I think what really strikes me... now that I look back. She was waiting for this opportunity. She seemed to sorta relish being in this position--at least a little. I mean, I know my mom loves me... but, there was this sorta fat cat kinda demeanor.
She doesn't want me to be as strong as I am. She doesn't want me to succeed. That's just the bottom line. I'm not sure she really recognizes it. But, I feel it.
She has gone back to the insanely crazy Stepdad.
Louisa saw how upset I was after the call. "Mom, whatever she said... Know that she is unhappy. She feels like everyone has left her and she is back with weird (stepdad). She took it out on you. She doesn't like that you are getting your stuff together and she isn't."
How did this kid get so smart?
Sometime I think I do a passive-aggressive thing with the paying her back... and my dad... because they have given me so little in terms of other support. I know that doesn't make it right. I'm just looking at how I operate.
I think I'm angry... not about how I was treated in childhood... but, how exhausting and unkind? and selfish both my parents have been in my adulthood. Money, that they will give. Any other imposition on their lives... not so much. And, the gossip about my life and how I raise the girls. My parents give money, but they take from my self-esteem and erode my confidence if I spend too much time with them. I've been a source of gossip for years now.
They don't want their lives upset by my problems or the problems of my kids. It's like... we want a relationship... but, not really.
Still, I took the money. I owe the money. And, I need to accept that, even when I pay it off... they will still gossip and be harsh and even cruel about me behind my back.
My mom actually told D21 two months ago, "Don't be like your mom."
How weird. In their eyes, I'm the freak. The deadbeat. The selfish one because I don't interact with them. I avoid them because I don't like who THEY think I am. I'm not that person.
Okay. Sorta freaking out... That's exactly how I feel with Matt. He sees me as this person... This person that other people don't see...
She poo-poos DA because she knows she needs it and won't admit it, most likely.
I have a friend who just started going, she's not in debt but she has issues with under-earning much like you, and is trying to grow out of always expecting someone to come along and bail her out. She's finding it quite helpful.
As for whether they're selfish for not helping you - you're a grown woman. Lots of healthy parents would not be ok with continuing to help out a grown child at your age, especially if they haven't seen signs of responsibility. This I think you just have to accept and get yourself into a position where you no longer need their help. Then you can start to slowly pay them back, even if it's just $10 a month to start, it will demonstrate responsibility.
I know budgeting is not your forte, so get a friend to help you. DO THE MATH and figure out exactly how much you need to meet living expenses each month. Start an envelope system and put living expenses into the proper envelopes each month - this will keep you honest, when you only have $10 left in the week's food envelope you eat rice and beans.
Do the Dave Ramsey Baby Steps. I don't agree with his politics but his approach to getting out of debt is exactly what you need. I would only make one modification - as a single parent, you need a bigger emergency stash than the $1,000 he recommends.
Find extra work, sell some articles or babysit for someone on a regular basis to earn a couple hundred extra bucks a month above and beyond your basic living expenses; this will keep you from having to borrow more from your mom.
Go to MrMoneyMustache dot com and get inspired about ways to reduce your expenses.
Keep a change jar as recommended above.
You can do this - but you need to become independent of your parents and your ex. Time for YOU to rescue YOU, no one else.
Thanks Ellie :-)
I appreciate all of your suggestions. Tell your friend to take a look at Sally P.'s book called "Spent." It's the best explanation I've ever found. It's a Hazelden book.
The book goes through the DSM criteria for addiction and compares the traits of a debtor/underearner to these criteria. It's pretty eye-opening and kinda made me sick the first time I read it. It's progressive. For me, this really, REALLY fits. My bottoms have gotten worse and worse. Getting fired is one of those bottoms for me.
Like any addiction/compulsion, the key is to acknowledge you are powerless.
I've been in D.A. on-and-off for about 15 years. What always stopped me up was the disease concept. Until a few weeks ago... Here I am... I am behind on my car payments. Living with daily fear of losing my car. This fear, however, is something I've grown accustomed to on a day-to-day basis... I'm earning considerably under what I'm capable of, given my intelligence and abilities and career background... So, with all my debt, pressures to earn, and daily overwhelm and terror of losing my car... What do I do? I found myself at Goodwill. Overspending. The only place where I could actually afford to fill a cart.
I could feel the adrenalin surging. It was a distraction and escape from the pressure. My way of coping. With each item, I could feel this pressure lift and I began to imagine that somehow these items held the magic cure for my ails. This book would lead me to a new life. This Pendleton skirt would make things better.
I knew, as I put things into the cart, that I was putting my kids in jeopardy. I was putting my life in jeopardy, but couldn't seem to stop myself. I tend to really get into trouble with my kids. I buy things for them when I need to pay bills.
All of those tools you mention are great. I have tried them all. Twice. I think it's something akin to an alcoholic who has tried to drink only beer, limited the drinking to the weekends, etc...
I know it may sound crazy, but the compulsion to avoid, to escape through spending, to find relief with something new... it's overwhelming to me. It's how I cope.
My dad buys cars.
My mom buys just about everything... jewelry, furniture, clothes...
I see this trait in my own children now. Cal, who is doing wonderful in school right now, getting great grades, was recently bailed out with her rent and school payments by my dad who sent her $5k. She became very angry when I suggested she try to figure out a solution in a different way. It's okay with me that she did what she did. I get it. I told her to pay attention and know there's a program for help if she every needs it.
Last weekend, a two weeks after getting the bailout money, she is calling me from the outlet mall where she works. She was shopping. I can hear myself saying, "I deserve this. I've been under so much pressure. I need this break."
Then, the justification builds and soon you find yourself in the same position.
What's hard is the heavy guilt/shame which our society has on those with money issues. Even gamblers and drug addicts are given a break these days. Our whole economy is sorta running on overspending and the temptation is everywhere. But, say you have the problem of compulsively being a deadbeat and BAM! you are judged and given all sorts of advice on how to clean up your act.
Debtor's Anonymous suggests sponsorship from individuals who have solvency--at least 3 months of living debt-free, plus you have regular PRGs where two other members give you guidance on creating a spending plan. Like A.A., the difference here is that you are guided by someone who has been there and done that.
I can see now that, the key for me is finding support.
Money disorders are an interesting topic and I'm thinking the field will continue to grow.
What upset my mother was the fact I was seeing someone who was a therapist who specialized in money disorders as opposed to a financial planner. I received a "scoff" which I don't think I will ever forget.
Again, she scoffs because she doesn't want to look at her OWN issues with money.
Sounds like DA is exactly the right place for you. Focus on bringing in that second income that you really need.
Went to my meeting last night. I'm chairing the meeting in December. It will help me to keep going. Another person suggested it.
Went on another date and had fun. So strange to date without feeling like I HAVE to find someone. I'm just enjoying myself. He called me beautiful and that was nice too.
Reached out today to some more homeschool groups. There's tons for us to do now that it's the holidays. The Art Museum in Asheville is open tomorrow for free.
Feeling better. Thanks for the support yesterday. Have to get past that feeling that I'm a failure because I struggle in this one area of my life. I will get there.
Just an update:
So, Matt appears to be pursuing still. He is honoring the phone block, but is writing me a letter. He asked me to write him a letter.
Y'all who have followed along with my story know I have pretty much said everything there is to say, plus more, plus some more... Then! Even more. I haven't bottled up a single feeling, thought or even idea throughout this journey AND I've made sure he enjoyed each and every one of my thoughts, feelings, ideas, bad days, joys, etc...
Can't think of a thing to say in a letter. How ironic is that!!!! Sorta blows me away. I don't have a damn thing to say to this guy. And, HE IS ASKING ME TO WRITE HIM.
P.S. In a side note... I've been keeping my private photos and so forth private no FB... but, anything I share that is silly or something from someone else's page, I post public.
So, he's calling himself Kermit because I posted the silly Kermit and Miss Piggy version of Adelle's song on my FB page. I swear, I couldn't make this stuff up. He is comparing our relationship to Piggy and Kermit.
If I were in your shoes, I would wait to see what he has to say in his letter. I wouldn't write to him first. Besides, everything has been said that requires addressing....right?
If I were him, I would be putting forth the effort to write to my daughters. But, it's evident, he's still got a lot of issues to resolve before he can reconnect w/them as a parent or even a man.
Don't write to him...make him come to you first.
Hi Lois, I agree with Job. Clearly he seems to be trying to maintain some link. But it sounds as though he'd like that link without really doing anything to change himself.
Will that work for you - to be pen pals?It is still quite soon after the D, and I think it is probably a good time to be enjoying your independence and building your new life...
JMHO of course xx
No intention of writing Kermit. Now, if he was Miss Piggy, maybe :-)
I've said it all. My soul is clean and has nothing to say.
I am so shocked by the turn in him. It only took him 2 years ++ to realize you were gone.
You had reached out to him so so much early on. Everyone on these boards was like please stop telling him about your feelings and now he wants to engage. I am really blown away.
I wonder what the experts on these boards have to say.
All I can say is Wow - time really is on our side
I know!! I told that dumba$$ every Effin time I sneezed or had a bad dream.
He was even telling me today how I should be wary of the men I'm dating because anyone single at our age shouldn't be trusted!
He said he wished he could take back all he did.
And, how am I Adele or Miss Piggy! Obviously, I'm the Kermit in this situation.
Oh!!! And, I almost forgot! Who texts me during this conversation? The Forester. WTF?!
Heather, I was waiting for this update… I’m not kidding… I thought he would communicate with you again… I would write him to tell him that you said everything you wanted and that you will listen to what he has to say. This is just me… in the mood I’m today, LOL… And provided there will be no emotional consequence on your part. Maybe job’s idea to wait until he comes to you first is probably the best, I’ve never seen her to be wrong.
I don't really want to read what he has to say.
He said he has saved the letters I wrote him from two-three years ago.
Heather,
The divorce was a fixation that has now been removed. Like my wife that was his route to happiness. Guess what, like my wife, he is now seeing it wasn't.
Words are just words. Actions speak clearly. His actions will say a lot as to where he is in the process and how far he still has to go. The road home is very difficult and he may choose not to follow it. My wife is on this very same road right now. She moves a little ahead and then back tracks. All we can do is watch them falter and hope they don't fall too far and hope they get back up and keep moving. If he chooses to get help for himself and finally straightens out then you will have your own decisions to make. For now just keep moving on with your own life and live it to the fullest.
Another case of realizing they messed up and lost something good. It's so sad to me.
Hang in there, I believe you will know what to do and what feels right.
Please keep in mind that the holidays tend to bring some of them out to play. Keep those expectations at zero for both the Forrester and your xh.
If you don't have anything to share w/them, then keep your communications short and sweet, if they require responses.
Divorce papers finally found me in Asheville tonight. I feel lonely and a bit discouraged. It was a long day.
24-page paper is done for this week. We usually do 16-pages. I'm whipped and have little energy for Louisa or earning more money.
Set my phone alarm so I remember a good phone mtg tonight. Went to my mtg last night downtown. Going to get quiet and pray some tonight.
Can't think of a thing to say in a letter. How ironic is that!!!! Sorta blows me away. I don't have a damn thing to say to this guy. And, HE IS ASKING ME TO WRITE HIM.
Can't say I'm surprised, Heather. Once you say what you need to say, then, well... what else is there to say? Ya know?
Ah the holidays. Job is quite right - keep yourself protected from both.
Glad things are looking up. The good thing about this contact is it helps to bring closure to you and the rest. That's no trivial matter, m'dear. But it doesn't require you to say any more. In fact, it doesn't require anything from you except to protect you and stay on the track to getting yourself whole. No more than that.
Peace,
AJ
Thanks everyone :-)
I've been sorta using him actually, from the beginning of this ordeal. As I've grown, I find myself less and less concerned about his responses/actions... It's more about putting me first. I use him to work through the feelings. I unload and vent and let go a little more. Sorta my M.O. Not saying this works for everyone, but I have to admit... At this stage, I have little to say to him and don't feel much of a burden on my heart in terms of unsaid stuff.
I think I'd rather have all my teeth pulled... Without nocacain even... than have to read a lengthy letter written by Matt.
I was reading that silly site Texts from your Ex. Sorta put things in perspective. He sounds much like those texts.
He has such a long way to go and I'm not sure I'm even interested in him anymore,.. Even physically. I'd like someone taller, burlier, strong with a beard... Blond maybe? Kind, MELLOW. Relaxed. Healthy...
Anyway. Not looking for anyone right now. I'm enjoying some attn I'm getting from men and trying to get straight with money. That's the plan.
Matt can pound dirt.
I DO have to add that, while getting honest with myself about money stuff... I have a new appreciation for how he did try at times and how my behavior impacted him. I can see there were times he was at his wits end. At a low moment, I shared an amends. I reached out and he was, miraculously, there for me. I did need to cleanse my soul after something he said though which really bothered me... After the amends and moment of sincere weakness, He was telling me how he had tried and tried and tried and gave up. He seemed to take the amends as proof he was in the right for his actions.
I thanked him for being there and told him... There was never anything you coulda done to keep me from struggling where I did. That started before you. My mistakes/problems are mine and I own them.
It felt like something I needed to do for me. Not preaching, but making it clear we are both responsible for our actions.
Received a card from the other side... Not the lengthy one he promised... I told him not to bother. He sent me a card addressed just to me... Had a little note about a sweet memories of when we became a couple... Then said I've always been Plan A, but he is stuck in Plan B.
Heather - painful as it is, if he can recognize that there are two plans, and even differentiate A from B, then he is making a choice "to be stuck."
Guess this is why we are told to watch the actions and mute the words. Don't drink the "woe is me Kool-Aid."
Happy holidays to you and your girls.
Thanks Ha,
Feels like I was teased and then rejected, again.
Merry Christmas to Everyone ;-)
But, need to vent about the MLC-Er. Okay... So he reached out to all three of us as per usual. I told him to stop as far as I was concerned because I knew he was still involved/living with OW (didn't know, but assumed). He confirmed it thru silence.
It's been 4 years this Jan. it didn't even occur to me until yesterday, we came home to those cards. He also reached out to D21 with all sorts of promises last week.
We were having this fun day and come home to read I have been passed over again because Matt is "stuck."
More than anything, I'm just angry. He disrupted our Christmas for freakin nothing. I sent an angry text and told him enough is enough with the holiday teasing. Called him a grandiose bast... For thinking he has the right to interrupt our lives and tease the girls with promises he won't keep. Sorry for the downer, but needed to get this out so I can be there for the girls the rest of the day. What an asshat.
I'm angry. Tired of being teased.
Heather,
So, he reached out because of the holidays. You have to pity the poor soul because he has made the decision to remain stuck, just as HaWho has mentioned.
What do you do...shake your head and so "oh, well, he's still down in the rabbit hole". Don't allow him to dictate how you should feel. Yes, he was a blip on your radar screen for the holidays, but I had the warned the posters every year that they come peeking out of the old rabbit hole around the holidays. Try to learn not to react to what he does. For instance, I wouldn't have sent him an angry text. I would have let it go because they crave attention, be it negative or positive and yes, you basically gave him the entire kibble on a silver platter by texting him. Learn to ignore his texts unless it's something of importance. such as child support.
Heather, you don't owe this man the time of day because right now, he's trying to drag you back down into the rabbit hole w/him, i.e., he's miserable and he wants you that way too.
Cut the cord, learn not to react to his behavior and leave him twisting in the wind...after all...you are now divorced. Your girls are old enough and smart enough to deal w/him in their own way.
Step back, leave him out there to twirl in the wind.
After all of that...Merry Christmas!
I wouldn't have sent him an angry text. I would have let it go because they crave attention, be it negative or positive and yes, you basically gave him the entire kibble on a silver platter by texting him. Learn to ignore his texts unless it's something of importance.
Couldn't agree more. Think of it this way: each time you respond to the reaching out, you'll prolong it. What I mean is that if you respond, he'll know you'll respond and will continue. Next time you're angry or otherwise impacted by his reaching out all these years later, just don't respond. If you want to, think of it as prolonging the interactions. Is that what you want?
After a while, they will go away (mostly) but you won't be affected. They'll focus on something else.
Silence sends the most emphatic message. Telling them to stop doesn't work.
Get back to your Merry Christmas. It's nice and warm in NC (although I have no idea what it's like in the mountains; just where I am) and a good night for watching the full moon.
Go enjoy!
Merry Christmas!
AJ
AJ - Weird I am in NC too - LOL. It is also weirdly warm for December.
Heather, I am sorry you felt disrespected by Matt. The holidays are tough. We all want that Christmas miracle story of love and reconciliation. I understand your anger but that time and energy can never be reclaimed. At this point it is not about learning to care for Matt less but dedicating ALL your time and energy on caring more for yourself. Your D's know the deal. It is not a surprise. The best you can give them is not to let it bother you for a second. You and your girls deserve only the best quality people in your life. Don't let his issues color your world. You've got this.
I am going to be blunt because that's what I do:) I refrain from posting you mostly, because I know you may just not be in a spot to receive what I have to say and the way I say it. So I respect that. But I want you to really take a look.
You know very well you can just ignore him. You keep telling him you want him to leave you alone. Yu respond and respond, and he bites back and he bites back, and he clearly has no intention right now of making any really changes and following through, and you are a smart woman and you know that.
He will go away if you ignore him. he will stick around if you keep throwing him bait.
I think you might be scared to completely let go. You are holding onto him by a thread. You both are doing the same thing.
I did this to someone for a few years. Not my ex, to someone else. Not until I completely let go, which wasn't easy, did I open the door for the real stuff.
You know what you need to do. you know the cause and effect of the push pull, and of the response of whether or not it be angry or nice.
I guess it's a question of whether or not you are ready to completely ready to let him go. Only you know the answer to that. But holding onto the thread with him in this state isn't really going to get either of you anywhere.
Ginger,
I think your posting was spot on. It's the fear of the unknown and her former h is familiar to Heather. I do agree 100% w/what you posted. If you don't respond/react to his missives, he will eventually get the message. There truly is no need for him to contact you unless it has something to do w/the child support. Heather, your daughters are now old enough to deal w/their father. If they want to be contact w/him, they will. If they don't, then he'll have to figure out how to repair the bridge he tore down years ago.
Your job in all of this is to be supportive of your daughters and to pick up the pieces of your life and begin a new life in the Carolinas. It's not your job any longer to be a support beam for your xh. It's time he grew up and realized what a mess he's created. From where I'm sitting, it is all lip service and no action from him.
Drop the rope, let him go and move forward w/your life. You've been given a second chance at happiness. Grab that brass ring and go for it!
Just to fill everyone in...
After I vented here and via text, I went back to Christmas and had a wonderful holiday with the girls. Louisa said, "Mom, that was the nicest Christmas we had in a long time." REALLY touched me.
Honestly, I know my process maybe isn't what is recommended or whatever... but, it's mine. It's been stops and starts and letting go and picking up the rope, dropping it, stomping on it, setting it on fire, repairing it, duct taping it back together, dropping it again and whatever... But, I'm still moving forward and grasping the reality as it is today.
I've been working hard on creating some new financial habits and putting a firm footing under me in terms of income. I've been honestly facing the consequences that years of overspending, vagueness and debting have wreaked on my kids. I'm taking a good hard look at myself.
The message I gained from this holiday... Time to let go of the mirage that this man, or any man, will be my salvation from life's troubles. I'm seeing how I have used Matt, other stuff as a distraction from my responsibilities, stress, worries, boring stuff...
I received the card with this sappy memory of our first glimmers of a relationship when we were still teenagers. A holiday card with a reminder of a sweet memory, while the d-bag is still living with OW and making more excuses why he can't step up for his kids... Yes, the mature, Al-anon-approved, DB reaction woulda been to ignore it.
I didn't. Vented and haven't heard a damn thing from him. He is a worm and goes back into his cave when I react.
Whatever.
Here's my take...
I've reached a point where I put myself and my needs first. At that moment, watching my kids, in particular, get angry and disturbed by the cards and crap he was dealing out... I reacted. It pi$$ed me off. He no longer has the right to try to weasel into any holiday. We came home from the Biltmore, seeing my Aunt, having a nice lunch with my aunt, having this wonderful day to these cards waiting for us... full of crap. I watched the girls' faces fall.
I made that point. FOR ME. To MATT... YOU ARE NO LONGER WELCOME AT OUR HOLIDAY. This is OUR day, our holiday... stay out of it. Your life is no longer waiting for you Matt Berry.
In the past few months in particular, I've had to face some harsh realities about my own imperfections. When he comes out of the shadows, I feel teased. The girls do too. It's like, we all have these mountains to climb... Cal (who, by-the-by got a 3.75 GPA this past semester--remember when that girl was in Jail??)... anyway, we have these hurdles to get past and we are doing without his help. When he reaches out, it's like there's this moment of, "Hey! Maybe we will get some help... help with college, help with Louisa, help with whatever..." Then, BAM! Nada.
Sorta like, being in the middle of a cold shower and someone offers a blast of warmth... You wanna believe, but...
My heart can't do it any longer. No more holiday teasers.
Here's what I haven't posted:
-Had to let go of my car. Can't afford it right now. I have a friend who I pay to get me to work. It hasn't been easy, but we are living within our means now. For the first time in maybe ever, I'm living within my means. But, it means we have had to let go of some freedoms and the coping mechanisms I created where we would jump in the car, drive, explore and end up spending what I can't afford have stopped.
-No car, means I have to be ready to leave the house when I say I'm ready. This means, we leave on time, I'm always the first one to the office and my boss seems really happy with my performance. Louisa comes with me and does her schoolwork.
-Looking for a place closer to town where we can use bus transit, be within walking distance of churches, library, etc...but, not there yet.
-Have a D.A. Sponsor. I check in each day at 7:45 a.m. with my numbers (how much I plan to spend, how much I spent).
-Told my sponsor about the vent via text. She isn't concerned. Matt isn't my priority right now. He got an earful, but the other stuff I'm doing--work/numbers/kids --this is my priority and that's where my focus is at... His life, situation is neither here-nor-there for me... Essentially, what I did is tell him to back-the-hell off while I'm getting my life in order. Strangely, I do know he will do what I asked.
-Still a member of an ADHD women's group. I use it to bookend which means I tell other members tasks I have to manage and then check in with them during the day after I complete each task.
-I call one person each day to share whatever.
-I have a face-to-face meeting in Asheville where I have in-person support from other DA members.
-I have a few friends here in Asheville and working on making more.
-We've almost been here 3 months and we've had more fun in the past three months than we've had in the past four years. The financial stresses much lighter... The job stresses much, much lighter. I don't worry about paying the basics any longer. I'm not breaking out all over the place. I'm not napping daily!!
-I don't feel the burning desire to tell Matt my every feeling, or to tell anyone my every feeling... I don't. I still have my moments, but I'm dealing with the uncomfortable feelings by reaching out and sharing with live people.
-The uncomfortable part is letting go of the old habits and feeling the yucky stuff. It won't kill me.
For me... My vent was about telling him to keep his B.S. in Ohio. We have enough to deal with and we ARE dealing.
Heather - wow! I have said it before but I will say it again, I am so impressed by all you are doing to take care of yourself and your girls.
It takes such courage to take an honest look at ourselves. No one is perfect, but once we look at our faults, it then takes such grit to do that hard work to better ourselves.
And kudos to your daughter on that GPA and all the work it took to earn that.
I am cheering you on and wishing you the very best in 2016.
Thanks Ha... back atcha! This journey creates some remarkable women.
Heather,
I'm so happy to come here and read that Cali got a 3.75. It took her being on her own and working out her issues to get her to where she is today.
I'm sorry about the vehicle, but you had to get your expenses under control and by George, you are doing it, hard as it may be.
Heather, this is the first time in a very, very long time that I can see you mean each and every work that you've posted. There is no waffling about what you can and need to do. Woman, you are doing it and succeeding as you walk along.
All I can say is this...keep up the good work. Each and every struggle, pain, disappoint and yes happiness will pay off at the end of the road for you and your girls.
Happy New Year!
BTW, do you still have the same phone number or did you change it? I might just one day surprise you w/a call to cheer you on.
Thank you Job :-) I will email you my new number.
Okay...only when you have a moment.
Honestly, I know my process maybe isn't what is recommended or whatever... but, it's mine. It's been stops and starts and letting go and picking up the rope, dropping it, stomping on it, setting it on fire, repairing it, duct taping it back together, dropping it again and whatever... But, I'm still moving forward and grasping the reality as it is today.
Heather, I know what you are saying. I’ve been through a couple the same “exercises” myself. My friends and family just shake their head watching me going through this, but I keep telling them that it is my process and they cannot just “fix” me by telling me what I need to do.
You are truly doing remarkable job in terms of keep moving on and getting what you want in life. Your Ds can also see this. They are inspired to do well. Look at your D’s 3.75 GPA! Great job!
Wishing you a great 2016!
Just to be clear, it obvious you have come leaps and bounds. Your process is your process. I just know you know what you are doing by keeping him on that little bit of a thread.
You sound better, your kids sound like they are doing good, you are taking great steps of living within your means. I just wouldn't want to see anything get in the way of that.
But clearly, you've got it handled! Happy New Years!
Ginger, that may be one of the most disturbing posts I've ever read on here... Felt like I was getting a message from God or... My mother.
My vent was a vent. I shared a vent with folks I thought would understand, as opposed to holding it in and having my kids take the brunt of my heavy feelings. I still struggle with how a vent on these boards seems to open the door to a storm of "critiques" and inventory taking.
I may be holding onto him by a thread. I don't know. I will always hope he finds his way home. But, if I am, I've put enough distance between us to prevent him from threatening our new lives.
As I get healthier, I find myself attracted... Not to individuals who cast judgment and analysis, but to people who simply accept me for being wherever I am and trust... Without any vague forebodings... That I will figure this day out, just like I've figured out the past four years.
I have a solid foundation of codependency behind me. Lots of abandonment and a mom who is back with a man who cheated multiple times and abused her emotionally and abused us in virtually every way. I will always have to be on guard when it comes to using men as a drug and distraction. It's taken me a long time to reach this point where I'm able let him go as much as I have. Progress not Perfection.
To the newcomers.... This is a journey. Most of us landed here honestly with plenty of baggage from our past. This is an individual journey and there is no sweeping blanket formula out. It's one day atta time and requires a large amount of honesty and self-reflection and courage. Your Journey is YOURS. Comparisons will get you nowhere.
Listen to how others walked through the fire and take what fits for you. But, don't let someone else's analysis stop you from doing what works for you. Pray hard. Listen to the direction God gives you.
These boards have needed, in my opinion, some structure I regards to feedback and crosstalk. People here are struggling through some enormous shame and hurt... There's the potential to do a lot of damage when a person is really vulnerable. Just my two cents.
I am lost to as to what is disturbing, but sorry I have disturbed you so much. I've been on here almost 8 years. I've been dealing for 8 years with many ups and downs. I have never had an ill intention on here, and I have close, IRL friends from here I have made as life long friends because we all have been through the gammut. Don't think I haven't had a million vents on here, some rational, some irrational. I can only thank those who propelled me forward in having me look deeper at what I already know.
Posters who have left this board from my time are absolutely right on why they don't come back anymore. Posting out of actual caring and wanting to help just offends everyone these days.
Don't think for a second I don't know what posters suffer through on here. I've been at this a very long time, and I "suffered" too.
Again, I am sorry if you read something as I said damaging, but I've only pointed something out to have you look inwardly at a reality. To show you what power you have. I thanked the people who did it for me, it was life changing. But like I said, this is why I don't post to you, and probably should have kept my keyboard shut. I only spoke out because I thought it could be helpful obviously not.
Sad thing is, I really meant those compliments. I think your progress is wonderful. Oh well, my time here is up.
I appreciate your kindness in sharing I do. What's hard for me... When someone says, "You are doing such and such..."
Or, I hate to see you screw this up by doing such-and-such...
I wish there were more shares written in first person, as opposed to blanket statements...
Like, hey, so-and-so, when I read your post, I'm reminded of when I did this... This is what I did to get past that...
My thoughts are aimed at the board as a whole. I have felt for a long time that, when people are so vulnerable, it's easy to forget people are clinging to life preservers here and without some posting structure---keep it to "I" statements, don't dole out advice, keep it based to your own experience, etc... I think there's a recipe for abuse... Even with best intentions.
Sorry If I attacked, but I'm sensitive to being told what I'm doing or what I should do. I'm trying so hard to trust my own voice and process.
Sorry Ginger. I think I read more into it than there was. I read your post again and I see what you are saying. I apologize.
I never tell anyone what they should be doing or what they shouldn't be doing. Not my place to say.
However, there are things that one can do or not do which have direct results. You don't have to do them, but they do have results. That was what I was pointing out to you. You know the bit of thread keeps him around. And perhaps that what you want. But if your desired effect is to have him leave you alone, you know what you have to do. Which isn't what you should to do, or what you have to do. Not my place to say. it's just what is going to result if you take that action.
I accept your apology, no worries. There wasn't more to it than what I said. I am usually pretty blunt as to not leave room for people to interpret what is or isn't there. I like to be straight forward to avoid situations like these:)