I've been posting in infidelity so far, but feel my sitch is actually more about MLC. Here is a link to my previous thread...
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2568610&page=11My H had (is having?) an A with a woman 15 years younger than him. He decided to start 'dating' whilst working away, without ever telling me there was a problem with our M.
We have been happily married. Although I think we are both conflict avoidant and what I thought was 'harmony' may have been suppression.
He said he feels he has a void right in the middle of his heart. He said he is lonely and thinks he is suffering from depression.
He lost around 40lbs and is much more concerned about his appearance.
He said he loves me, thinks I am beautiful and the best person to be M to.
But he feels he can't grow old without the chance to be a full time Dad again.
We have been S for almost a year and have limited contact. He told me he wants a D in March, but hasn't filed so far. Our MH is on the market and I am initiating £ separation just now.
I have been DBing since October and have made strides forward in terms of my own life, new friends, independance and so on. I would like to save our M if possible.
Thanks for reading, and looking forward to getting to know you lovely folk in this part of the forum...
Welcome ... errr ... well you know what I mean... to the MLC side of the tracks Toots.
Hey - Welcome Toots - Do you need my MLC Welcome Post with all the MLC homework?
I will be glad to post it here if you need it.
Hi Cadet, I would love a welcome post - that's kind of you to offer. And Cali, thanks for the welcome too - I feel like the new girl in class today
Hi Toots I will follow you anywhere !!
Take care. Rd
Welcome to this board.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmKeep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2560187#Post2560187Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...444#Post1942444Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
He said he loves me, thinks I am beautiful and the best person to be M to.
But he feels he can't grow old without the chance to be a full time Dad again.
Toots - one question about this - are you positive that the OW isn't ALREADY pregnant, or hasn't ALREADY had his child??
Stranger things have happened (read Mighty's threads here).
Hi KML, fortunately it doesn't seem to be the case that he has got someone else pregnant. I occasionally snoop at his desktop when I call into the marital home. Last I knew (April/May) he had been to visit his folks in the US and there were some emails from his sister to him and a friend of hers, joking about them both being broody and they should get together. He then sent quite a flirty email to the friend.
OW was abroad from May'14-Feb'15 and mostly with her partner that time. She did return to the UK in Feb and is now in the same city as H. But I snooped at some text for an email he sent her in Jan. It was all about - if she comes back and they are to be together, he needs things to be simple - no mention of a baby! Then he emailed me in Feb, saying he had made a big mistake having an A and forgot what was important...My sense is she dumped him on her return to the UK, and he is now dating. But who knows??
Him wanting to have another family is something he's said a number of times since BD. He has also told me it was something he would have liked, but it's not central. And he has also said - I think it would be nice on the one hand, but - ugh - I'm 45, would I really want to go through all that again??
Well, I'm volunteering at the charity bookstore this morning, then off to see my parents later. Cadet, thanks so much for the welcome posts....and RD, thanks for following me over here
Have a good day everyone! xx
Toots ... yeah this age thing... ugh
My W always wanted more kiddos ... honestly I did to. We miscarried prior to S8, then his delivery was a tough one.. emergency C section, plus we never really dealt with that miscarriage ... so issues started back then and she swore she did not want to go through that again. Enter MLC and like you a snoop here and there I discover she wanted kids with OM ... at 43, thankfully OM went matrix and dodged that bullet but made me think ... starting all over at this age, we waited to long with S as it was but man ... the start driving and I'd be 60???!!! No thanks ... no way am I putting up with Driving Mr Daisy jokes!@!
I do think its that "I am missing out" thing that really drives them into Crazy-ville, for me I see W starting to calm down and not press so much in all areas of MLC crazy ... she still has that going on a bit but much more diluted now, seems currently she is trying to figure out who she is .. piecing the old her with the new her and its strange to watch.
Hopefully he comes to his senses prior to being the Granpa-looking dad!!
Toots I am following too. I know nothing about MLC.......
Only about fruit and nuts
Hugs
V
Welcome to the MLC Forum! Like all of the Forums, we, too, have a great group of people posting here. We have posters in all stages of recovering and healing from their spouses snorting the pixie dust from La La Land.
So, fasten your seat belt because it will be a rollercoaster ride of emotions that will take you up and down and all around...but we will be here to help you along the way.
However, the most important things to do are: 1) take care of yourself; 2) keep the focus on you and your family; and 3) make sure your financial stuff is taken care of, i.e., bank accounts, credit cards, utilizes, etc. You will learn very quickly that you can't rely on your spouse for anything. The only reliable person is yourself.
Please feel free to ask questions, vent, journal, etc.
Lol@ snorting pixie dust...oh the visual
Hi Job, thanks for the welcome, and reminder of the most important things to focus on. I have been on the forum for a little while, and have come quite a way already I think.
In terms of taking care of myself, I left our marital home at BD and moved in with my parents for a while. H had disclosed his A and wanted to continue it. TBH, I fled in trauma - left my home, my job - and a whole way of life really. Many people might have stayed put, but I just couldn't do that.
Since then, I have 'clawed' my way up and I have a new job and a rental flat. I have built a life here - joined a book group, calligraphy group, yoga class, aerobics class. I volunteer at a bookstore, and have just joined a fundraising group. I went for IC for a while, I'm trying to set up an infidelity support group, signed up for a D support group. I joined a women's social group and have made new friends, reconnected with old friends too. I make a point of accepting invitations when people are kind enough to extend them - I try to 'dare greatly.' I read and meditate too...
As we don't have children together, there is just me to focus on. But SS14 and I have kept in touch. HXW and I have always been on friendly terms, and she has been kind enough to reach out since we S. She and SS call me his 'other mum' and say I am 'stuck with them' now, whatever happens. I feel blessed and grateful for this.
We both want to sell the MH. My L said only to do this as part of full financial settlement, so that is what I am working towards. H said if we do this, he thinks we should D. I told him D isn't what I want, but I respect his choice...Our L's have just made contact this week.
Helping my Dad with some stuff today, then theatre trip with new friend tonight. Coffee with another new friend tomorrow and aerobics later. Have a good weekend all xx
Hi Toots. I hope last night went well and you enjoy coffee date today
Take care. Rd
Tricky...popping up over here. I'm on to you now, Toots. Looking forward to seeing what folks over here have to say about your sitch.
Hi Toots my Midlands DB buddy!!
Found you over here, thanks for the heads up
I see that there is still regular agreement with you. What colour do you think the t shirts should be?
So how's things with you? What's next on the £ settlement?
RD, thanks for dropping in. And Gan....you found me! Jim, I think the t shirts should be red please...
Not posted much. Lovely night out to theatre on Sat, then traumatic day Sun with Mum ill. had to call dr out & dad/me both upset. All much better now. It was a UTI & now on antibiotics. Feel tired today though. Working away today & tomorrow.
Jim, I completed the huge form E and gave all £ info to my L. She & H's L were hoping to speak last week. No update since then. My L will check my stuff ready for disclosure now. We are purely hoping to sort £ & sell house, but of course H may decide to file for D.
Other than all of that, Toots is just fine & dandy, & some nice social and holiday invites recently - all of which I'll accept
xx
Hi Toots. Your sounding upbeat EXCEPT for the D thing which appears in all your posts. Positive Positive positive. !!!!!
Re taking holiday invites , 6 weeks in the Bahamas ?
Take care. Rd xx
RD, you are so right. I do mention D a lot, and it's a waste of mental energy really. Either it will happen or it won't and I guess I'll be okay either way. I had a good couple of days at work. I like my colleagues and we have some good laughs. Everyone's busy, but it's a pretty relaxed environment.
I confirmed my leave for late July, so I'm definitely off to visit with my good friend when she is on holiday in the north for a few days. Looking forward to that! Popped in to see Mum last night. She is looking much better, and I'm so relieved. She is frail now and any illness is a worry. Life is back to normal with them and she's off to day centre today.
NC with H for a couple weeks now. He started a new full time job with an hours+ commute, so I imagine he's pretty busy just now. It's SS birthday next week. He'll be 15, and I need to start thinking about a gift for him...
I'm feeling pretty positive about life in general. My GAL efforts have settled into a nice groove now, and I have made a couple of new girlfriends who are keen to do things, so I'm enjoying that. I do feel I've become more confident in recent months - more outward looking.
Have a great day all xx
Love it, Toots, and I think I am largely in the same place (see recent update). I'm very glad to read that things with your mum are ok. I imagine - given her frail state - that it much be quite scary when she has bad days. I dread the thought...
Hi Toots,
I found you - thanks to your post in my thread earlier today.
Dear Toots, I too will follow you anywhere.
Why do you feel you've been mentioning D a lot lately? Do you feel like you are in a state of limbo?
Many *Hugs*
Bob
Red it is!!
Like always I have questions...
When you mention divorce how do you feel about it? I'd guess its a mix of feelings but can you describe the major ones?
I ask because I'm curious but also because a lot of the time when I do a little digging what I think I'm feeling is a mask for something else.
I'm glad your mum is doing a little better. How's your dad doing with it all?
Otherwise you sound good and like you're really cracking on positively with life.
Hi Gan, Bob, Jim - thansk for stopping by. Jim, how do I feel when I mention divorce? Well, I feel it isn't what I want. I partly feel I'm waiting for the guillotine to drop. I partly feel a little numb now. So much has happened, you know?
I also feel that I don't really know quite what I want now in terms of a possible R with H. It's hard to like him much just now. I also worry that others show more anger than me? Am I angry enough or am I internalising things? I still find it painful to think of that time before BD when he was deep into an A, and deceiving me.
I think I'm partly still here because I feel I have come so far, it would be a shame to throw in the towel. And I'm also mindful that people say we should hang on in there, and try to save our M's even when we don't really feel like it any more. And plus, I know the stats and the fact that many WAS' ultimately turn back.
I partly feel relieved too. That if H were to file, things would at least be resolved/resolving in some way. And the worse part of me thinks - yes and it would all be on him if he files. Although I know there are things I could have done better.
I worry about trust going forwards. If H and I were ever to reconcile, trust would need to be rebuilt of course. Could I do that. Am I forgiving enough? But if we don't, I may have to develop trust with someone else. How will I do that? Will I do it? I don't know that I would marry again. Pool resources and become so vulnerable with someone again. I doubt my ability to chose well now. Future R's may have to be on my terms - own houses, separate finances - time alone when we feel like it.
H and I have completely separate lives just now. He doesn't know what I do and I don't know what he does. We have spoken for less than an hour in total in the past eight months. There is a lot of distance and it is hard to see how that could be overcome. But I still don't want to file for divorce. I feel that he feels barely anything for me and probably now sees our M as a mistake. I imagine he wishes I would just file and get it over with. And I know all this is mindreading and may or may not be the case.
So, in answer to your question Jim - I guess my feelings are confused, which makes me feel I'm not ready to do anything just now. Next month it will be a year since BD and I will have another think about things then.
As for the rest of my life - well, I've come a long way. I have a new job, new flat, new friends, new hobbies. I have rebuilt my life from losing almost everything at BD. And I feel proud of that, and not willing to give it up lightly. I think that's as much as I can say. I guess I'm a bit of a mixed bag just now...
Toots,
When in doubt, do nothing.
You will know when you've had enough.
Toots
Your statement about trust and pooling resources struck a chord with me. I completely get that ... even if its someone new, what we have experienced is as traumatic as a car wreck, and after one goes through that the excitement of going for another ride ... well .. yeah.... not so much. Trust is a very delicate thing, like a rare plant, takes years of patience and nourturing for it to thrive .. but just one thing, drop in temp, not enough sun, to much sun .. any little thing can effect it and if not monitored it can die so easily .... not even talking about trust after what we have gone through. I asked myself some time ago, will it be easier to trust my W after all this .. or someone new ... I could not answer this, knowing I would take those lessons and hurts from the M and project them onto a new R, I mean .. its my baggage and I have to deal with that, so I decided no way would I get into a R till I could look at it for what it was .. a new start ... easier said than done.
As far as pooling resources ... even IF my W and I get back together that is not going to happen, I will always keep my own account, lesson learned there and I will never be in that position again ... she was in control of all funds, cleaned em out and pretty much I was on my own. I will not be a victim like that ever again with anyone ... and am thankful for the lesson as being in control of my own finances has helped rebuild some of my lost esteem.
Toots your H is off in la la land, you have some time to rebuild and become who you want to be, use this time as you have, continue to grow and heal, you will need to regardless of what happens with your H
Hi Toots. You seem to be thinking a lot and the impression I get is Toots is ok
How you've changed your life is amazing and what we've come to expect of you.
ive been reading DB again and she does recommend mixing it up if things aren't changing. I know that's hard in your sitch and maybe not what your comfortable with right now but maybe something to think about
Take care Rd. cx
Hi Toots,
Thanks for answering - I find your answer really interesting for a whole bunch of reasons.
Confused seems fine to me given everything that has happened/ is happening. I hope you dont mind but im going to go with a few more questions - feel free to ignore them.
you've mentioned the anger or lack of it thing before (I think Gan has as well). Does this concern you? what happens if you dwell on that pain you feel when you think of pre-BD? does it disappate, do you shrug it off or something else?
Hypothetically if you were magically divorced tomorrow, what would be different for you? (for me the answer is nothing by the way)
Job's advice is good i think and you absolutely should be proud of everything you've done since BD to build yourself a new life. RD has said it lots of times but its worth repeating, the way you left when you found out is to be admired.
lots more i could say but 'i agree with Toots' about sums it up
Hi Lovely,
Thanks for your wonderful, thoughtful and inspiring post you wrote on my thread. For some reason, it made me a lot calmer, and I read a few times a few of your precious advices too.
I think you are doing very well and it's totally understandable the confusion. It's like: So, H wants to move on, have a different life with kiddos and all the noise, so why he did not serve me papers yet?
And, you are probably in the right place now, the land of MLC, or the La La Land as they say over here.
It's very hard when everything is a big ball of mixed up messages, behaviors. But you are doing what the wise here advice: Take care after Toots first, you will be better if back with H or with someone else, or just feel really proud of yourself.
About the anger... well, I am very close to get my Bachelors in it. I really think it is very personal the way we deal with our pain, pride, trust, hurts, wounds, passion, love... I would just be careful if you find yourself down sometimes and then creates a whole scenario to avoid the confrontation with your own self.
But, if you feel it is not the case for you, then maybe you are just built this way and things will be probably fine.
I am glad to hear that your mom is a little better. At her age it is a health rollercoaster. I hope your dad is taking good care after himself. It is not unusual that the one caring for the sick, will became very ill himself. In any way, I envy you for having your parents, for seeing them almost every day. You are very lucky.
Toots, I really hope that now with a new job and new responsibilities, that your H will start thinking a little more clear and come back from outer space.
Red it is... I will order mine right away once Jim gets it up for sale.
Love you lots dear,
Pink
Darling Toots,
I have always said that H is good at never deciding and sitting across fences.
Anchored to them even.
Just let him, you have endless time to think and wait.
V
Toots, I just read up on your sitch. We have something in common with our H's and that is the desire for children. I think this is a big thing that my H has been reflecting on in his MLC (?). We both wanted children when we first got married, but that was put on hold by both of us because my H wanted to go back to school. He kept having the opportunity to continue on with higher degrees, which in turn kept delaying children. I will say that was a mutual discussion and decision. At no point did he express concerns or offer solutions to try and fit in with his schooling and me needing to work full time. He actually often seemed turned off by others children. I just assumed this was a sacrifice we both were making for his education. It is not that I don't want children, but how to fit it in in the past. I think he is now regretting our decision, but he is putting it all on me by saying it was not important to me and I knew it was important too him.
I too am 45, so the chances of this happening naturally are slim. There are other options that we had discussed, but maybe those are no longer an option for my H. I know my H has made comments regarding being alone at 70 with no one. That also goes to the aging factor. Maybe your H is having similar thoughts?
Hi BW - yes there are some similarities. My H does have a S from his first M, who lived with us part time. So he hasn't entirely missed out on being a parent. But he feels he missed out on being a full time parent.
It's ironic really that his XW was much happier for SS to spend time with us when I was on the scene. She felt he was well cared for and happy with us. H sees far less of his S now sadly.
H and I met when I was 35, and when we moved in together I was 39. I was never desperate to have kids, but I always thought I would be happy if it happened. We decided to leave it in the lap of the Gods, and stopped using any protection, but I never did become pregnant. I was happy helping raise SS though.
Without reading back, did your H become involved with a much younger OW? OW was 15 years younger than H and he mentioned (prior to A) that she wanted a family. I'm not sure whether wanting to be a full time Dad is more linked to the A (former A?) or genuine midlife regret or both.
But it is the primary reason he gave me for wanting to D. Although previously he had said it wasn't central. Anyway - enough of him! I'm just back from a very nice day out with a good friend and her S7. We had lunch out and some good laughs. I'm going away with them for a little trip at the end of July, so I'm looking forward to that
Thanks for dropping by BW xx
Hi Dear Toots.
I'm so happy to hear you had a very nice day out with a good friend and her son. Yay for you...you sure deserve it! Kepp it going...
I saw you post in my thread. I did reply and, then later, I had a question for you. I already feel like I'm hi-jacking your thread, so if you have a moment, could you please read my question for you back in my thread?
Thank you!
{{{Toots}}}
Hi Toots. Just to say hello and I hope your having a great evening.
Take care. Rd
Hi Bob and RD - thanks for dropping by. So I had a long email from H today. He said:
There's lots of practical stuff below, which he hates. He hopes I know how much he loves and values me. His L told him I don't want to 'collaborate' any more (not strictly true - I'll need to clarify this to him.) He doesn't mind, but his L has quoted over £30k for handling the case. He'll have to change L's if we're not collaborating as it's too costly. He doesn't mind how we share our money, but doesn't want to give lots to L's. He's sure we would rather spend it on houses.
His L told him that in a settlement, assets accumulated during the M are split 50/50. He worries we're going to spend lots of money getting to that position. He would be happy for us to make the calculations ourselves now and settle on that. With his first D, they wasted lots of time and money, then sorted it all out with a 20 minute phone call. He has a pile of complex business stuff, none of it worth anything, but it will take L's a long time to figure that out.
He asked if we can just work out what we were both worth when I moved in, what we are both worth now and split the difference?
He hopes I'll understand he'd like to D as he'd like to start a family in the future. It was a hard decision and he doesn't know if it is the best but he hopes I'll understand. He has struggled for a while with a kind of loneliness. He now realises it was never anything to do with being with me. But pouring himself into work and being a weekend Dad just wasn't him. He wishes he'd realised it earlier as maybe we could have made different choices.
He wants to ask if I will file for D. He'd feel awful about filing because he was at fault and doesn't feel I did anything wrong. He knows I just want a settlement, not D - but hopes I'll consider his request. He hopes I can see that although he messed things up quite a bit, he is a genuine person who has at long last realised what he wants.
**************************
Lots to process and think about for me....and I'll post some thoughts later - but if anyone has any comments or advice, I would be grateful....T
Hi Toots,
Sometimes divorce is part of the process of moving through this. They can get fixated on that and won't see anything else till they achieve it. What happens after the divorce is really up to both of you individually. My ex wanted it so bad and would not work with me and ended up costing us a ton of money. Three months later and she opened up that she was not happy, that things did not turn out the way she thought, that she had lost her identity as a wife and as a mother.
So my advice is dont help, but dont stand in the way of the divorce. If you can get thru it without using lawyers or at least use them as little as you can it will save you a lot of money and may even reduce the time that he is in the tunnel.let him know you are not for the divorce but won't stand in the way. where it comes to dividing stuff, unless he offers more accept the 50 - 50 as it is most likely what it will end up as anyhow.
Hi Toots. So sorry you got that news From what he said I still see a huge amount of confusion If you take what he says at face value then he's talking rubbish.
For now I would take a few days , process what he said and think about what Ou really want.
If H wants to D then that's his choice. Why should you file ?
Re the financial side , do your sums and see how you think the figures should work out. Re involving lawyers , I don't see how you have much choice. You have to protect yourself and H cannot be relied on
I hope the vets stop by with wise words. Take care. Rd
Thanks LT and RD. I had a think today and replied to H already. I feel more amenable about the £s than about filing actually. Here's what I said.
I told him I was willing to start looking at some figures and see if we can resolve things together. I agreed it would be best to contain legal costs.
I clarified that my L suggested we "kind of collaborate" but without the meetings - due to distance and costs involved. (I didn't put this, but it may be his L is more of a 'collaboration purist' than mine.)
As for filing for D. I said I understood what he was saying & that I'll think about that and come back to him.
I wished him a happy Father's Day.
My concern about the finance is that I have little idea about his business value. I know there has been an industry down turn. Also, before he got a L, he suggested a settlement figure that my L laughed at. Hopefully he will be more realistic now. I'll see what he comes back with.
This may sound awful, but in his life insurance, we agreed what amount I would receive if he died. This may well be less than 50% of our assets now, but that amount feels 'fair' to me as it would be what I would have received had he died - and of course he couldn't have helped dying! I won't tell him any of this obviously..
As for filing, I feel more strongly about this. Yes, he may feel rotten, but it is what it is. I can accept him filing and our M coming to an end. And I don't want to 'stand in the way of his happiness and future family' as he sees it.
But can I in all conscience file if I don't want our M to come to an end? OTOH, LT may well be right and we may D anyway. And him filing on grounds of unreasonable behaviour would be a bitter pill to swallow. I guess I would rather we file on a no fault basis but that would mean waiting a year. Hmm
It was hardest reading all the stuff about he loves me and knows he messed things up (he's a much more 'loving' WAS/MLCer than some.) But that he's a genuine person who has at long last realised what he wants...(ie: not me...but I guess I knew that anyway
)
Thanks Guys, T xx
Hi Toots. I'm not trying to see hope where there isn't any BUT he seems to be chasing a life that just isn't possible for him to achieve. My point about hope is if the life he wants isn't possible then he will come to that realisation at some point.
The grass is greener is a term that I have heard time and time again. You H still seems to be looking for that green grass. He's not a young man re kids anymore and he has a child already which didn't go according to his grand plan
Kids are fantastic and personally they make my life I do see people that are perfectly happy without kids and each to their own. Your H is chasing a dream that's biological not possible. Even if he had kids tomorrow he will be mid 60''s before the child finishes its education
My advice ( for what it's worth ) is carry on with the financials , carry on being the best Toots you can be and living your life.
H will continue down chesseless tunnels and maybe realise what he's lost if Toots is still standing then H will be a very lucky man
Toots ,your intelligence Kindness and caring come through in every post and I am constantly staggered at the stupidity of your H.
Take care. Rd. xxxx
Rd, thanks so much for posting. I'm not in the best frame of mind tonight. I did go out for some GAL - aqua aerobics with a friend. So I have had some respite from my sitch.
But I do feel pretty hopeless tonight. His mind sounds so made up. And I know logically there may be hope, even though he sounds like that. But emotionally, I feel things are pretty hopeless now.
I feel he won't stop until he has a new family of his own. With whom I don't know. And I feel he wants me to make it easy on him. Help him reduce the legal fees. File for D myself because he feels rotten doing it.
It rankles that he sees himself as a 'genuine guy who messed things up but now truly knows what he wants.' I could really give him a piece of my mind tonight!
He is actually pretty nice to me, still says he feels love towards me. And I guess I should be grateful for that. Some WAS/MLCers are so mean. But I do find it frustrating..if there is still love, why can't we work on our M? Arggh!!
I'm thinking after my brief response, I'll just see what he comes back with on the financials and decide what to do. If he dicks me around with low figures, I'll just keep things with my L and we'll move forward that way.
As for filing for D. I just need to let that one absorb a little more. Thanks so much for your post. It helped me to have a friendly face dropping in tonight.
Take care RD xx
Hi Toots, your H sounds a lot like mine when it comes to trying to be amicable and seeking your cooperation and understanding that he just decided to do the right thing for him and this is the way it is. No harm… He still loves you… But wants to start over, because it is what he thinks is best for him… Blah, blah, blah… It is like he seeking your cooperation to make him feel better about the choices he’s been making. But, what about your feelings?..
And the timing is about the same. My BD was in June 2012 and H came to me talking about D in March or April of 2013. He wanted us to go on line and figure out how to file an application for D together… I told him that he can go ahead and do it himself, mail or bring it to me and I would pass it to my lawyer. His eyes got big and he asked me if already had a lawyer... To which I said that I interviewed a few and prepared to hire one if needed. He left... I never heard word D from him since then. I contemplated a few times to file myself. So, it’s been almost 3 years since BD and he hasn’t filed for D yet. He is still looking for that greener grass on the other side, with not much success...
If I would be you, I would wait for some time to sort out all your feelings and decide what you want to do. It is always up to you to file for D, any time you want. You don’t need to rush the decision. Get the financial settlement first though, if it is possible without you filing for D. You will know when you are ready.
I know that it looks like his is pretty set on his decision right now and that there is not much hope. Time will tell… Take care of yourself and your finances for now. And don’t let him to take advantage of you and soften you up with his niceness, LOL.
Hi again Toots. I hope you don't mind a little one to one but bar H you're life sounds fantastic When I say bar H , I think you know exactly what I mean !!!!
You know my sitch and have being incredibly kind and supportive throughout.
I know I flirt on here and it's a safe place to do so BUT when I look to my future I honestly would kill for a Toots in my life. I doubt I will ever meet someone with your strength , caring , loving and intelligence. You know myself and Pink have plans !!!!!!!! but I mean it , whoever is lucky enough to have you in their life in the future will be a very , very happy man.
Your H does sound resolute but remember how Edz W was adament about her feelings for Edz.
MrBond took years to get his R back on track. I have read many stories on here of reconcilliation when all seemed lost.
Hopeless is what I see for your H not for you Toots is too good for this version of your H I wish I could arrive at your door , collect Vanillia and Pink and we could all have a night on the town and forget all about this cr@p we have have to deal with
Please don't be down , you have a lot of positives in your life and one big negative. Positives will win , I promise. Would Rd lie ????
I hope I put a little smile on your face , even for a few minutes
Please have a long long hug and a it will be ok wispered in your ear from an online friend.
You are a very special lady and deserve so much more. You will be. very happy again and this time will be a distant memory
Take extra care. Rd. xxxx
(((Toots)))
Just catching up on the latest from your H.
He does sound very resolute but also very lost. But it also sounds genuine and caring (yes it may be a crock of.....)
Did your H ever go through phases of needing to change something because he wasn't happy? Did that something become something else the moment the change took place?
Finances - In my opinion, the more you can do yourself the better then just get lawyers to review the final draft of the agreement
As for divorce, how about a reply to your H that says something like.
'Thank you for not wanting to file for divorce citing my fault. I know you think it would be better if I did but this is not something I would want to do either, it seems hurtful when it's clear this has been very difficult for you as well.
We would be able to agree to divorce on a no fault basis in about a years time and I'd prefer we at least wait until then although we can agree all the financial and settlement details.'
I know ive said it before the question that helps me the most is this one 'whats the second best outcome?'
By framing the second best outcome I can park a lot of the emotional stuff associated with what I think is the best outcome and hear more if what she say's
Hope you're feeling positivr
Oh, Toots. Rough couple of days for you I'm sure. Sounds like an even rougher couple of days for your H though...not that that makes it better in any way. I'm not sure what to say or offer. I recall early on reading "the only way out is through" which helped...and also you using the analogy of the tornado. I guess you've just got to keep pushing through in a way that leaves Toots feeling ok about how she carried herself?
Toots, I relate to you like no one else on here. Not only because we have disappearing H's who generally remain civil when we do interact, but also because we seem to have similar reactions to our sitches. Like you I haven't really experienced an anger phase and also you said something that resonated...about having had a conversation with a friend about how you intended to be a model in the way that you responded to your sitch (or something to that effect). I wonder how that last bit is working for you lately? I mean, bar this recent email from H, you really sound like you've got a lot of great things going on in your life. It oozes from your posts. But is part of you still holding on because you want to keep up appearances? I really hope I don't offend in saying that...I honestly feel similarly a lot of the time. Lately though I feel things have tipped and I'm not afraid of H filing for D anymore. If it happens, it happens. It's his loss. Part of that relates to the fact that I'm getting curious about meeting other men...and it's shifting my focus away from "I hope we R" to "I'm going to do my own thing, and I'll deal with R if and when that becomes an option...but at this rate H is the one that is going to lose out". It feels pretty good actually. Now I may feel different if I got an email like the one you got...but I am wondering what is it that keeps you holding on to your H...and does it require a bit of self-examination?
Sending big hugs to you today, Toots.
Thanks guys. It has been rough, and to be honest I have lost hope just now. I feel it may be kinder to him, and maybe to me, to agree to file. Does it make sense to stall or wait another year, or force him to file?
I know that not losing hope is one of the 37 rules, but I have. It would almost be better if he had been more horrible. But he asked me nicely & I think he really wants me to let go now.
I'll think some more, but this is where my mind is at tonight...
Dear Toots,
My thought takes me to what a dear friend said to me at one point, "people get remarried all the time." Divorce may be kind to you, too. It allows you to let go of even hope and TRULY live your life for you.
A question for you to ponder, would a year of true detachment and space be more valuable for you than a year of distant hope in stalling for hope of reconciliation?
I admire you, dear lady. You are a model.
Thanks Z. I had a big cry and a good sleep last night. I feel calmer today, but have a sore throat, and need to work. I feel this has been another flip round the rollercoaster.
I think I just need some time to process now. It is a big decision & I don't want to make it when I feel so emotional. H is still displaying a big 'fill the void' need. He tried with OW and he now seeks 'new family' to do that. Logically, I see that. Emotionally, it is hard to read how 'done' he seems.
Anyway, I'll work, look after me and absorb things. H can wait as long as I need..I feel I am on the ledge not because I feel done, but because I believe he is truly done and I should give him what he now wants. Is that wrong?
Take care all xx
Well, I survived a couple of busy days at work - despite feeling unsettled and upset about my sitch. I feel in many ways I do well, and my life is busy and pleasant. And my life wouldn't change much if we did D. But how upset I have felt since H asked me to file on Sun, makes me realise I have more work to do on detachment. Although I am independent in a practical sense, I struggle to let our M/R go in an emotional sense. And I think I have been grieving for what I feel is the final loss of our M. But then that is against one of the 37 rules - don't lose hope.
I feel some pressure to make a decision now. Should I file as H has asked, or should I not? I just don't know. I know for sure I wouldn't be filing left to my own devices. But I feel H wants me to let him go now, and I wonder if I am being selfish/stupid trying to hold on?
If anyone has any insight to offer, I would be so grateful. I know I don't need to decide right now, but I am feeling the pressure of his request.
I feel he won't stop until he has a new family of his own.
With whom I don't know.
And I feel he wants me to make it easy on him. Help him reduce the legal fees.
File for D myself because he feels rotten doing it.
I think you should answer
H I will not stand in your way of YOUR divorce.
If this is something you want to do than it is up to
you to do the work.
I will not do the work for YOUR divorce.
I EXPECT a generous settlement for this
and await your offering.
________________________________________________
Then go as dark as possible.
Hi Toots. M I dont think you should file If your undecided about something I would advise do nothing
You clearly don't want to file so why would you ? Your H finished the M and it was his choice You had an input to the problems no doubt but you were prepared to stand for your M. And still are
Just my thoughts on it Toots.
Take care. Rd
Toots,
If your h wants a divorce, then he should be the one to file. One of the reasons he wants you to file is so that he can announce to the world that you filed and it makes him look like the injured party. I wouldn't give him the satisfaction of accommodating his wish that you file. Also, I know in my area that the person petitioner is the one that pays the court costs and since you really don't want to do this, why should you pay additional costs too?
Toots when in doubt, do nothing. Again, he wants the divorce, then he should do the work to get it taken care of and yes, be sure you get a proper settlement. Bounce the ball back into his court. After all, he's the one that is walking away from his marriage vows and you.
Thank you all so much. You've helped a lot these past few days. I decided I won't agree to file, and I feel happy with that. I think the big problem I had was H being so nice. And I felt I SHOULD accommodate his request. But I realise that the niceness could just as well be manipulative. And I think I should just do what I WANT - which is not file.
Thanks for your suggested replies. I'll wait for some feedback, but I'm thinking:
H,Thanks for not wanting to file for divorce citing my fault. I know you would prefer me to file, but divorce isn't what I want, and I won't initiate it.
We could divorce on a no fault basis next year. I'd prefer we at least wait until then, but agree financial and settlement details now.
If you choose to file now, I'll respect your choice as I've already said. I'm sorry if filing will cause you pain. Please know that I only wish the best for you.
Take care, Toots.
Hi - so sorry you are having to go through this, its does sound like your h is being manipulative - if you file he can tell all those around him that you were the one who gave up ... that will be the fantasy version he maybe coming up with in his skidaddle head.
Personally toots (and I am in no position to advise you, so its just my 2cents) I would not do or say anything, not respond to it at all. If your h asks you again about what you intend doing about the d then politely say "nothing, its your choice".
I spent a few months thinking about filing myself, then came to the conclusion that it was him who started this so it should be him that finishes it. I will only file when it benefits me.
Think about yourself toots and do what you feel right for you. You are doing great, stay strong and don't let your h bully you, you deserve to be treated with respect.
I totally agree with Lou. I wouldn't say a thing. You will find, if you take that route, there will be many benefits that come out for you. Once you find yourself not haveing to explain or even having to fluff his pillow, it will be a big step in the detachment process. And that's my two cents!
I wouldn't say anything about filing at this time. If he should ask, that is when I would say that I'm not planning to do anything about it. He started this trip, he should be the one to finish it.
The less you say and/or try to explain yourself, the better.
I feel he won't stop until he has a new family of his own.
With whom I don't know.
And I feel he wants me to make it easy on him. Help him reduce the legal fees.
File for D myself because he feels rotten doing it.
I think you should answer
H I will not stand in your way of YOUR divorce.
If this is something you want to do than it is up to
you to do the work.
I will not do the work for YOUR divorce.
I EXPECT a generous settlement for this
and await your offering.
________________________________________________
Then go as dark as possible.
I revise my advise,
I like the DUCT TAPE response better,
say nothing at all.
Thanks Guys - I like the idea of STFU for now. I'm sure he'll be in touch soon enough. He seems pretty keen to move forward. I don't want to delay unduly on the financials - but there's no pressing need for me to push either just now.
Really appreciate all the advice. Thanks for taking the time to post xx
Toots .. sorry just caught up but as usually .. everyone is spot on.
I do not think YOU want to file ... so yeah .. he wants it .. let him do the work, you be the rock and lighthouse and do not let him trick you into doing the dirty work.
As you said .. your life would not change, you are dealing with the emotions right now. This is a long marathon and when and IF you ever get to a point you need the D to move on then sure go ahead and pull that trigger, but I get the sense like me you have hit a point where single, separated, married you were still the same person when you woke up and your H can not change that.
Hang in there Toots, maybe this is just a temp check from your H ... don't mind me .. I am a Jedi level mind reader.
Hi Toots,
Will catch up later today, but it seems we are both having a tornado season just now.
((((((((((Toots))))))))))))
I am thinking a lot about you... sending you a big huge hug to make everything a tiny bit better.
Hang in there,
Pink
Working from home today and just taking a break for lunch. Got some emails from H today. He has worked out what we were both worth when we moved in together and our total worth now. Then he has worked out a proposed division of assets with a couple of options how we could divide.
Looking at the figures, I'm happy with what he suggests. I'm pleased that he is now looking at 50/50 and including what we have built up together. Previously, he only saw our jointly owned main home as 'ours' and everything else as 'his.' On the downside, he seems willing to put in some work, and part with a lot of cash to get himself our of our M - sigh.
I'm still thinking about the filing for D thing - and thinking about Jim's 'second best' option.
My preferred option would be wait for 2 years and no-fault. (ie: wait a year.)
My second option would be for him to file now
My least preferred option would be for me to file
I don't think he'll wait (though he may surprise me.) But he seems all focused on getting himself out, and ready to potentially have a family again. With whom IDK. So, I think he will file if I don't, and he'll have to do so on 'unreasonable behaviour' grounds. My L says the grounds have to be true and significant enough to lead to D - although the bar isn't that high.
My worry is that I may be really hurt by whatever grounds he chooses, and I wonder whether it may be best for he and I to work together on these in order to avoid that hurt for myself. I know people say not to enable the D, and I'm quite sure I don't want to file for D. But I would prefer to avoid the pain of what he uses to file. I worry it may haunt me.
Maybe you feel I'm focusing too much on D just now - but TBH all his actions are headed that way and he seems resolute. I think I may just need to accept and move along with it all.
Hope everyone is having a good day xx
Toots - I have noticed that MLCers are often more generous in the early stages.
If he wants a divorce then I would suggest going ahead with him filing (but not filing yourself) If you wait a year, yes. he might reconcile (but he might do that anyway) The downside is that he could be feeling much meaner by then.
But it has to be what you are comfortable with
Toots,
Bea is right...MLCers are more generous in the beginning of their crisis than later on. Once they are on the divorce path, they become more stingy and do not want to divide things up equally. Also, if he's willing to give you things, you need to get it in writing because those verbal agreements will change as he travels the yellow brick road.
Toots - I have noticed that MLCers are often more generous in the early stages.
If he is offering a good settlement I would take it.
Divorce is just a piece of paper and if he ever comes out of his crisis then you can always get re-married.
Fact is that our marriages are over at bomb drop and sometimes it is only with the divorce that the LBS truly gets it and drops the rope.
Divorce is also the ultimate boundary.
Bea is correct that as time moves along they sometimes get more angry and less generous.
Aw Toots, you're dealing with such tough stuff ATM. So if I understand correctly, if you file under 2 years then the person who does the filing needs to provide a reason. So H wants you to file, so that you can use the A as the reason. Meanwhile he wants D, but doesn't want to file because he doesn't want to have to provide a reason (because he knows this is on him). Is that right?
In terms of you being haunted by any reason he gives - maybe you can see this for what it is: H making stuff up so that he can D for his own crazy reasons. Nothing more. In the end, I think it is up to you to decide whether to let that haunt you or just chuck it in the BS waste basket and devote your headspace elsewhere.
You've mentioned a bit lately about not having much hope these days...but we all have hope for Toots. This is all really big and scary and awful, but you've got so much going for you outside of this. Maybe a decision to R would mean missing out on some other amazing opportunity just around the corner...?
(((Toots)))
Thanks so much for your input guys. That's interesting to know that MLCers tend to be more generous in the early stages. I'm keen to get financials sorted, and it looks as though H will only agree to that if we D. He knows D isn't what I want, I'm not going to keep telling him that.
I've emailed to say that what he's proposing seems fair - subject to our L's receiving disclosures and doing checks etc. I've also told him that I won't agree to file and that he'll need to do that. I've told him I'm willing to discuss the 'unreasonable behaviour' grounds if he chooses to file. But I've also said my preference is we settle finances now and consider a 'no fault' D in a year's time.
No response yet. Feeling strong and steady in myself now. And Gan, thanks for feeling optimistic for me.
Cadet,
WOW !!
Reading this, I see my H. He was so generous & nice at the beginning, now almost 2 months into it....all I see is anger at the moment. I guess this is all the normal steps.
They are more generous in the early stages because they want out and will agree to anything just to get the situation finalized. As they begin to move further along the path, people begin to talk to them about what they are doing in the way of dividing the assets and advise them not to give so much of it away. The OP has a way of pushing that they give less than agreed upon to the spouse in any area. That's why it's very important to strike while the iron is hot.
Hi Cindy, two months in is very early stages in MLC. My BD1 was in March 2014. But I was also interested to read about the generosity in the early stages. I can see that as MLC goes on and the cheeseless tunnels unfold, the MLCer starts to feel pretty fed up and hard done to.
At this point, my H is of the mindset that what he needs is a new family. And he just wants to shed me and our M and forge forward with that. I'm not even sure he has OW just now. Last I heard he was still on/off with AP and dating. The new family may or may not work out for him. It's hard for me to think of him with a new wife and new children potentially. But it is what it is, and there isn't much I can do about it. He will do what he will do. Equally, I wouldn't want to see him unhappy.
I realised today that with his proposed settlement, H couldn't even afford to buy our city flat outright. We co-own that with a friend, and H may want to buy him out. But he'd have to get a mortgage to do that. I'm in a cheaper area and would be able to buy a place outright and have savings too. I guess it's given me a little boost really.
Oh well, I guess it's early days in all of this and we'll see how things unfold. Thanks so much for taking the time to post everyone xx
Hi Toots!
I just wanted you to know I haven't forgotten about you--I never could!
You are in my daily thoughts and prayers.
Please remember, you are not alone in this, even though it may seem like it. So many people on this forum love you!
Here's a Bible verse I find very comforting:
“Be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age” (Matthew 28:20 NLT).xoxo
Bob
Toots ... I know this is rough, but you are really handling it as you should, stlye and grace, but also watching out and protecting yourself.
I will say this... this is never what we want nor would I ever wish this on someone. My W pressed D seriously 3 times, I went with the "Not what I want but I'll be fine" act ... and it was an act for the first two. The last one, to be honest I wanted off the rollercoaster but more than that I just felt at ease, and if that D was what she needed to be happy, I wanted her to be happy after watching her for years be miserable and drag me down with her. I faced the fact that if OM made her happy and they truly loved each other, he could put up with her stuff .. then more power to them, I knew I might need the D just as much to close this wound and as Cadet said truly drop the rope.
So the 3rd round came, I actually made an appt as fast as possible, gathered all my info up as soon as I could ... even went to the banks and pulled statements from the BD period (At that time was about 1 1/2 years) I had pegged her on an agreeable separation date, knew where we were at that time, could prove she emptied about 7k out of the accounts, also ensured I was not on the hook for her 30k loan, Basically my ducks were in a row, I knew what I was entitled to legally and I was not going to move from that point.
I am not sure if this wil lwork in your case, your H seems pretty emotionally detached .. as mine never really cut that and always called out for help ... but I do know she needed to know I would allow the D ... this I think set her free to think about things.
I was OK with the D at that point, I truly was ... and even now I am still ok, heck financially I would be better off, but I am taking things as they come.
We never want this, but sometimes you have to give them what they think is holding them back in order for them to have a chance at coming out the other side ... it is just a piece of paper ... but a very binding thing for them. He may give this all a good solid look and think ... ummmmm .. this is not what I want. Or it may release him ... either way its going to move things.
Hi Toots. You seem to be rushing at this a wee bit. The D is my what you want End of. Why would you file ?
Take the settlement Secure your financial future and let H do what he wants re D I see people saying that D is just a piece of paper and I respect thier opinion
This isn't the case for you Just my pennies worth Toots I'm a huge fan of yours and as such will back any choice you make
Take care. Rd. cxxx
Hi Bob, thanks for your kind thoughts, and Cali for the insight - very interesting. RD, thanks for your 0.2 as well. I just wanted to clarify that I don't intend filing for D, and have told H this. Although I put it as a 3rd choice above - it isn't really a choice for me just now. I don't want our M to end and therefore I don't want to file.
That said, I can feel a shift in me and I seem to have lost the fear of D. Instead of resisting it, I can feel some acceptance and surrender. I just seems as though that is where we are headed and that's how it is. Is there more I could do/have done? I guess there may be. But I feel I can live with my choices, which is the main thing.
I'm volunteering at the bookstore today, and then need to get myself organised with supplies for a calligraphy workshop tomorrow. We are doing papercut letters....never tried that before! Then I'm mum-sitting later on this afternoon. Have a good day all xx
Hi Toots.
To my read I think your taking the sensible approach. Get a good deal on the finances and be non obstructive on the D.
He may or may not recognise his idiocy one day but this way you can move forward sensibly. And as Cali/cadet say sometimes its only when we properly move on do they properly realise what they've lost.
So overall situation - what does second best look like to you?
Hello Dear Toots,
A friend passed this along to me today. I found it encouraging and wanted to share it with you:
Faith…Trust…Hope…Confidence…Love…Attitude
{1}
Once all villagers decided to pray for rain,
on the day of prayer all the people gathered,
but only one boy came with an umbrella.
That's FAITH
{2}
When you throw a baby in the air,
she laughs because she knows you will catch her.
That's TRUST
{3}
Every night we go to bed,
without any assurance of being alive the next morning
but still we set the alarms to wake up.
That's HOPE
{4}
We plan big things for tomorrow
in spite of zero knowledge of the future.
That's CONFIDENCE
{5}
We see the world suffering,
but still we get married and have children.
That's LOVE
{6}
On an old lady's shirt was written a sentence
'I am not 80 years old....
I am sweet 16 with 64 years experience'
That's ATTITUDE
Have a happy day,
Live your life like the six stories above!
Thanks Jim - always happy to have your seal of approval! After an emotional start to the week, I do feel more settled now. I feel I stood up for myself financially and held on to my wishes and preferences, though I respect H will do what he will.
I seem to recall H filed in his first M too - although it was more of an 'agreement' after 2 years S. He may struggle with the fact that he would have brought both M's to an end. He hasn't responded to me yet, but that's fine. I'm just moving forward.
Been in touch with SS today. It's his B'day and I sent a parcel up for him. He was very pleased & we've had various texts during the day. He says he loves me and can't wait to give me a big hug - bless him. He's a sweet lad - though he's fifteen now and almost six feet tall! Heard from his Mum too. It's good to be able to keep in touch with them...
Bob, thanks for posting too - that is indeed a lovely way to live....Have a good weekend all xx
Toots,
I believe you are making the right decision. If you filed for the D it would be taking responsibility for his decisions. Let him keep ownership of them and deal with it. Don't give him a free ride. Unless you are in a hurry what do you care how long it takes.
Looks good to me Toots.
Now I am following Jim and agreeing.
V
Hi Toots, how are you today? Hope you are able to find some 'time for your happiness' in all of this.
Just stopping by to see how things are going in Tootsland....
So, H emailed me today. He said:
He doesn't want a financial settlement which isn't linked to a divorce.
It just doesn't make sense for him.
He's scared about spending all his money on his L (she quoted £30k to handle D
)
He'll need to find more suitable accommodation for SS and him at some point
Also he wants to start resolving things in his life.
He hopes I can understand and is sorry.
He will talk to his L about filing and discuss & agree grounds with me.
He'll take a week or so to get the paperwork done
He's sorry to be slow, but there's so much to do.
He should have done this when he was out of work...
He hopes I'm well.
SS says my flat is very nice & he hopes the cat is settled now.
I replied later today:
Thanked him for confirming.
Told him I'm so sad we didn't manage to make things work.
Told him I love him and truly wish him well.
Said that I'll start thinking about grounds and come back to him.
So, sadly it looks as though D papers are on the way for me. I'm sad but also I feel at peace and I can accept the situation. I'm glad not to be filing myself, and I'll keep DBing. Thanks for dropping by LT, V, Zephyr and Gan..
I'm so sorry, Toots, I know that this isn't what you wanted. But that last paragraph up there ^^^ is pretty great to read. Strength, balance, grace indeed!
Toots,
You fought the "good fight" for your M. Your H is a real dumbass for walking away from the best things he's ever had: you and the kids.
Toots
I know it hurts and its a cruddy thing. But honestly you can remain walking with your head held high, you did all you could do to save your M, you honored it the entire way.
Maybe the D is just what he needs to start looking inward, seems often this is the final piece for them if there is hope he ever becomes unstuck.
Reading your sitch .. and I think last week you said as much .. it really does not change what you are doing nor how you are living. I do hope this is still the case and if anything it allows you a sense of freedom to become whoever it is you are working at becoming.
Hi Ttots. Just checking in. Youve been very quiet the last few days , all ok ?
Rd
(((Toots)))
I know its not what you want but I'm pleased you feel peaceful towards it.
Who knows where things will lead but at least this way you get a proper financial settlement and can move forward, with an ever better Toots.
I'd love to say pop round and I'll cook you something to cheer you up, but best I can offer is a virtual invite unless you spot me in my T-shirt.
Although I'm also going to take credit for the sunshine and say I've arranged it to brighten up your day
Thanks so much for stopping by Guys - I really appreciate your kind comments. I've had a busy couple of days at work, so TBH my mind has been occupied - no bad thing. Good to have some sunshine too.
Got back to an email from my L, who has gone through my finances now. She has done a summary ready to be signed off. I updated her that we are expecting H to file and sent her the spreadsheet of our figures that he prepared.
I do feel a shift within myself. Last week seemed to be a week of pain and grief as I truly felt our M was coming to an end. This week I feel much more settled. Who knows what next week holds!
The one thing I do struggle with is that there may be no return from this. By that I mean his filing on grounds of unreasonable behaviour rather than waiting a further year - on top of having and A. Do I want to give up on him entirely? I can't even imagine us together again? But then I know that all of this is irrelevant as I wouldn't be doing anything different to now anyway. Except perhaps date? But I don't feel ready for that - though I did have a nice convo with a guy at work today with a touch of flirtation
It is good to feel a sense of peace about the M and my efforts to save it. I do feel I gave it my best shot. And perhaps there may still be a chink, IDK. But I fully intend to do my best to move on now. Not just move forward as I have been.
It still doesn't make sense to me. How H said our M was mostly happy, he loves me, I'm beautiful and the best to be M too. Yet he seems pretty desperate to get out of our M. But I know others struggle with this too and closure on that just may not be possible. It is what it is.
Hope everyone is enjoying some good weather like us in the UK xx
Each day as it comes, Toots. You are sounding good in spite of it all. And some flirting! Good for you.
Hi Toots. Your sounding strong and upbeat. Flirting and letting go of M may just be what you need
You know I feel your H is MLC of the like and looking for the impossible This cannot go on forever but it could be he is losing his time window with
Take care. Rd xx
Hi Gan and RD, thanks for stopping by. Your support means a lot to me....
Well, it's a day off for me, the weather is lovely and I have my pretty summer dress on and toenails freshly painted - ready for a date with myself. I read that on another thread - Skhdive I think - and liked it.
I started meditating again last week. I lapsed for a little while and realised I felt worse as a result. Starting again has helped me and I had a good sleep last night. Woke up calm and rested. Popped into town today and bought a pretty new top for myself, and just about to go and stock up on wine.
Busy week socially this week. Tea at friend's on Monday. Yoga tonight. Tomorrow is WFH, but a lunch date with my sister and evening birds of prey event with social group. Bookstore on Friday, then out for coffee with a friend. Then a movie with another friend on Sat pm....I think my social life is about the busiest it has ever been!
As for H - I'll just see how things play out. I wondered whether to start calling him STBXH - but TBH I don't feel completely ready for that. But I do know I need to live just for me right now. I have a couple of inward niggles just now. One is - should I have invested in a DB coach? The other is - have I done enough to try and attract H back. I'm just pondering on these right now. It may be there wasn't much else I could have done, but clearly it's there in my mind - potential unturned stones.
Best wishes and hugs from the UK to you all xx
Toots
I can understand where you are at, I recall being there too as I awaited the date we mediate and I just sign the papers.
Just caught up on your sitch ... a couple things jumed at me.
First .. the second guessing, did you do enough and all that? Well .. lets just take a peek at your time line, about a year and a half, 2000+ posts ... yeah .. I think you have done more than most, do not remotely beat yourself up. MLC'rs are a different breed, they have to work out their own crisis ... as the fight song here goes IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU, its their crisis. And as I have said, and I truly feel this even with my W ... sometimes they need that D to look in the mirror and begin to do that work, might be what your H needs, he admits that the M was good, you were wonderful ... this screams its him Toots, and right now he knows he is not available for you, who knows when he might be, its up to him to get back to that spot he needs to get to and fix his broken self.
As far as the dating ... yeah .. this spot of the forum, we are in it for a bit and those questions arise. You will date when you are ready ... plain and simple. I went out on a date or two just to start rebuilding myself ... realized I was not ready and never did a second date, but I had to get out there, out of my comfort zone .. and in a way prove that I was desirable as we all deal with the "why did they discard me so easily" feeling.
In time you will be just fine Toots, as you mentioned .. this really changes nothing for you, you will continue to be awesome and will approach the challenges as they come.
Hi Toots. I certainly feel like youve done enough except for standing and that's something you will do for as long as you wish to
Your obviously an attractive, caring and nice person. Your H is going through an MLC. and will one day look back at this with either huge regret or disbelief at what he almost lost.
Can I just say your post on here are so helpful and kind that I read them all. I feel very lucky you took an interest in my sitch and have always been there for me
Please don't second guess your actions You have stood tall while H stooped to the gutter. You could have moved in fairly quickly but you didn't. H needs to wake up and smell the roses before he loses you to someone who deserves you
Take care. Rd. Xxxx
Thanks so much Cali and RD. It's good to know you feel that way. As you know, I'm a huge fan of you both!
Just a brief visit. Busy day WFH and managed to fit in a little family lunch. I'm off to my social group tonight. It's a falconry evening followed by a buffet. The sun just came out after loads of rain, so that's good.
All quiet with my sitch. I think I'll just go dark for a bit. My next job at some point is to think up some reasons why my H can D me on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour - I know!! How did that get on to my to do list??
Well, if it wasn't on my list, I would either be filing (nope) or leaving H to come up with the reasons. And TBH, I wanted to avoid that hurt....kind of a Hobson's Choice really. Who was Hobson I wonder?
Anyway, I'm doing okay. Busy helps. When I think of my sitch I still get a hurty, pit of stomach sink. And if I get an email from H, sometimes that sink becomes a stab. Oh well. Really enjoyed posts from Matt77 and Heavy D this week. Took some inspiration from those.
I do realise that I am learning a great deal about myself. Particularly about toxic shame, and the impact on my life and M. And vulnerability and expressing your own needs, and boundaries. It's funny that this is really important stuff and I'm sure I will be a healthier person as a result. It's just hard to have to learn it this way. But in many ways it is possible to see this sitch as a gift.
Anyway - must beautify!! xx
Unreasonable behaviour
1. You picked your nose once
2. The toothpaste was left off the cap
3. You forgot to flush
4. You have a wart on your nose
5. You leave the bed sheets more than a week
6. The petrol gauge is empty
7. You buy the wrong pasta
8. You wear Bridget Jones big knickers
9. You didn't put out the rubbish
10. You put dirty dishes in the dishwasher
11. You eat biscuits in bed
12. Your handbag has the whole contents of your make up drawer
13. You sneeze too much
14. You forgot to buy milk
15. You are too loving
16. You are Toots Iamthecheese
Will that do?
I am sure our DB friends can find a few I missed
V
I could add to that list, V....but I think I'm just gonna go back and draw your attention to the fact that Toots just mentioned that it's "falconry evening"...like that's something that shows up on everyone's GAL list.
Surely that deserves some sort of GAL award for "most unusual GAL" or maybe just "WTFGAL"?
Hello Toots,
How are you today? I hope V and gan made you LOL. I sure did!
Take care of yourself. Sending positive thoughts and prayers your way.
((hugs))
Bob
Hi Toots,
how was the falconry? was the buffet dependent on how successful the falcons were? and more importantly did you get the same massive electrical storm we had last night?
Its weirdly logical that you're trying to find reasons to for your own 'unreasonable behaviour' but as you've already been told remember the bar is pretty low. Also remember (according to my solicitor) that you can not contest without saying you agree with the grounds.
I'm glad you're doing ok and from the looks of things from here you have a good, interesting and fulfilling life so setting aside your H's poor decision making you've every reason to be doing well. But i do know that pit of stomach sink all to well.
anyways you always seem a really positive influence here so i assume that carries through your everyday life. Hope you're enjoying the weekend.
PS I had to look up Hobson's choice and it reminded me of the Eddie Izzard sketch about 'Cake or Death'
Thank you all for stopping by! Yes, I'm having a nice weekend. I met up for coffee with a friend and her dog at a canal-side cafe on Friday pm. Yesterday I did an extra volunteering shift at thebookstore and I went out to see a film with another friend last night. Today, I'm cooking lunch for Mum and Dad, and I'll go to aqua aerobics tonight.
The friend I was out with last night has been M and D twice. In her second M, her H was unfaithful and had also run up debts that she wasn't aware of. She came away from the M with nothing financially. It made me feel very lucky that we do have assets (and not debt, or nothing to divide.)
It's a bit of an emotional morning for me. I'm trying to draft out these unreasonable behaviour reasons to give to H at some point. I started by writing down all that I truly regret having done (and not done) within the marriage. I'll post that list at some point. It isn't what I will offer to H, but I will pick out half a dozen reasons to suggest he use.
I'm not going to rush to respond to him, but I want to have the reasons ready if he asked for them.
It is the first antiversary of BD and our S this coming week too. I want to have a think about where things are up to and what next, so I'll post some more about that too. I read some of Labug's threads yesterday, which was helpful.
Other than that, I celebrated 'me being independent' yesterday - even though it isn't a holiday here in the UK...
Take care all, and thanks for your kind support which means a great deal to me xx
I look forward to reading your updates, Toots. I can imagine that it would be very emotional indeed putting together a list of your "wrong-doings." What a horrible system.
I've visited Labug's threads a few times over the last year - I consider her my DB coach! I hope she's doing well. Haven't seen her for a while now...
Toots.... I could not imagine having to do that kind of list .. especially on the anniversary of BD, knowing "WAS is a MLC-Loon" is not an appropriate thing to put down, will take a good deal of character thats for sure.
We all I think at this point .. this long after BD arrive at a place we can say .. I could have done this or that better, truly owning our share of all this, I know I have anyways... but to have it as homework .. no thanks ... seems a bit personal to me.
Hang in there my friend.
Hi Toots Just a quick post to say hello. I hope your ok
Take care. Rd xx
Hi Toots,
I wanted to thank you for stopping by my thread earlier and your wonderful, encouraging comments.
I don't know what I'd do without you!
By the way, how are things going today?
Bob xo
Gan, Cali, RD and Bob, thanks for stopping by! I've had a busy couple of days working away. I'm normally just away one night, but this week it's two and I'm sat here in my hotel room with a glass of wine right now. I met up with a friend and her little boy after work tonight and we went out for dinner at a nice country pub.
She has been very supportive of my sitch and accepts that all decisions are mine. But tonight, even she was saying she didn't see a way back from this and it has been so long now. It's true - I'm not even sure that I want there to be a way back any more...
All quiet re: H. I haven't rushed back to him with suggested examples of my unreasonable behaviour. I figure I don't need to be super efficient in helping him move forward a D. If he wants them, he can remind me and I'll give them to him. Otherwise, I'm just completely dark right now.
Doing generally fine within myself. I notice that I'm not thinking about him and our sitch quite as much, which is good. I have no real idea what is happening with him, which kinda makes me life easier. Probably if I did know what he was up to it would make my hair curl!! Need to start a new thread soon....will do that when I'm back home again xx
I notice that I'm not thinking about him and our sitch quite as much, which is good. I have no real idea what is happening with him, which kinda makes me life easier. Probably if I did know what he was up to it would make my hair curl!! Need to start a new thread soon....will do that when I'm back home again xx
Toots, I feel the same way. When I don't hear from STBX or think about her, it is easier. Keeping myself busy helps keep the thoughts out of my head. Thank you for your post on my thread the other day:)
Out of sight,out of mind. That's good your not thinking about him as much Toots. I have the opposite problem living with W, lol. Slowly getting there the hard way.
Also, falconry
Hi Toots!
A friendly reminder...you need to start a new thread. You have 104 replies and this one is going to lock very soon.