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http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2509736#Post2509736Ok, so it was I don't know ... about a month or two ago, I can recall it so vividly. A beautiful Saturday and I was putting my Helmet on preparing to ride to this little Burger Joint a long time freind told me he read about in a magizine .. I just happen to live 20 minutes from it. So I decided to GAL and go .... I plug in my headphones crank up the Harley .. and off I go. Just as I get on the road this song plays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PkcfQtibmUIt was at that moment those lyrics hit me like a sledge hammer "Learning to Walk again, I believe I've waited long enough, where do I begin?" ... and have been my personal Anthem since. It was just about that time I could feel my personal transition with my sitch go from the focus mostly on W, to the focus mostly on myself.... and knowing the healing would happen that way.
Realizing that no healing could happen when I was so focused on my MLC'r .... huge step, the more I practiced the better I felt, I could feel the old me start to return, I should say the older wiser me. Knowing to take things for what they are worth, with a nice big grain of salt, knowing this will not be over anytime soon .... no amount of threads I read here contained the magic bullet to snap W out of the MLC fog .... but what did happen were the responses to my posts, and reading similar advice in others .. the light bulb went off, Work on yourself ... give the rest of it to God.
I am just at my desk reflecting, realizing how far I have come, and how far I still have the luxury of going ... decided to start a new thread, one not focused on my W ... reminding myself this journey .. the one I control... begins with me, and I will arrive at my destination with the help of this forum .... one I am so thankful I have found.
Love, love, love....Cal. The thread title and all the rest. Good on you.
Yeah, Cali!!!! FOO FIGHTERS ARE WHASSUP!!!!
I mean... They're my new friends. They just don't know it yet.
Awesome title. Can't wait to see more of your journey, Cali!
ok, Shining...I just spit out my drink. LOL!
LOL @ Shining ... ok thats pretty funny, only because I too have several friends who have no idea we hang out all the time
Ok ... so journalling/Updating the sitch I have realized I am long winded ... I think its a way for me to purge ... better to purge here and let the hurt little boy talk than letting him out of the cage in public. Besides that I would have to buy extra tickets to all those events. No really .. I am this crazy.
Last night was RCIA Class, I look forward to Wednesdays, I get out ... have started actually remembering some names .. and its like I have become to relax and feel more "at home" there as I continue my journey. Not sure I have shared this .. so going through they give you a sponsor ... for when you might need some help, have a question .... or maybe its just so someone will sit in the chair next to you to discourage you from running out of the room ...lol. My Sponsor, lets call him Gunny ... he looks like an old marine, and well .. that's because he was, then he got out, retired CHP officer. Stone faced/emotion but you can tell he is true to his convictions .. out of all the sponsors I have met, there is no question this guy and me were a good match. So we are told to write down something we are praying for ..... I do this "Reconcile my Marriage" ... then *Shreeek* pass that note to the right. I receive a note from one of the guys I know, pretty minor, but I am sure its important to him. I look at my sponsor as he reads mine .. can you say awkward moment and uncomfortable ... well guess that's one way to share. The note seemed to have an effect on him, but he poker faced as good as he could I think.
So I finish there, drive home. S calls to say goodnight, I was on a good PMA, and making him laugh. Nice call and he hung up and went to bed. I take a shower and jump in bed struggling with my inner demon, do I read, or do I Netflix ... I chose both because I live dangerous like that.
Then the phone rings ... I answer and its W. Asking if I was awake (I kinda laughed I admit) So she is soft spoken seems down a bit. She just wanted to talk .... I am thinking .. ok its been some time since this has happened, push pull in full effect. So I plug in my STFU app and listen. Ok it was a long talk so I will try to just put down what I recall .. She asked about my day, about work ... I shared a bit (She had no idea I have been here over a year ... I recall the MLC'r and the time warp thing, but this did strike me as odd even though I read it here) and asked her about hers. She shared, I validated.. I really need to print that sheet and study more but I think I did well, it was all about listening and just saying enough to keep her talking. Even as she was chatting up a bit but it seemed like she was probing. So then she got quiet, I used to push and talk to break this up, but I was calm, and just waited for her to either end the call or talk. She told me "I have made a mess of my life". I was not sure what to say to this .. if anything .. there was silence, she asked what I thought and I just told her .. to be honest I am not sure what to say about that. Its true .. I mean what I agree and tell her how she F'd everything up... or I lie and tell her things are perfect ... I was not letting Hurt Little Boy out. She actually did me a solid and laughed and told me I could agree with her. Made me smile. Then the conversation turned to religion, she said she has lost her faith. I opened up and shared a bit ... telling her that I think we all find God at certain times in our lives and its just meant to be or is'nt ... used FIL and BIL for examples and just left it at that, careful not to "fix" or try to guide her.
Then ... the big one ... I was not ready. She out of the blue asked me if I still loved her. Long uncomfortable pause. This may have been a mistake .. maybe not .. I am not sure .. time will tell. But I told her "I don't know ... (shared to much here and I know it .. but it came out) how do you love someone who has hurt you so much, who does not want you in their life, its hard to justify loving someone like that" I should have left the tail part out .. but it just came out. She asked if I still at least cared about her, if I thought about her during Thanksgiving. I told her I did. She mentioned how we have been getting along better and I agreed. Probing, temp checking ... continued .... then she said something,"you never apologized for ___________" (Had to due with her health issues, I would get frustrated and there was nothing I could do ..I should have just STFU back then and listened but I was angry she was hurting) I told her I in fact had apologized countless times, felt remorse for how I was and how I handled things... and have moved on from that, its in the past and I have to go forward. She asked if I have "moved on" and I calmly told her I am working on myself its all I can control.
More small talk then she brought up Christmas ... I told her I felt its best if we have separate Christmas exchanges with S, she said she did not want that. She got a bit upset, not like mad but hurt upset. Asked if that's what I wanted, I told her its not about what I want nor has it ever been I just think under the circumstances it was best. She dropped it and then started talking about BIL#3 and how no one has heard from him, we discussed it a bit, I asked about SIL and how she was doing ... then asked about FIL and she said she had not talked to him ... I then said I thought he called you Monday night as you were on the phone with S and I ... lie or her memory .. who knows.
So .. yeah .. the phone convo was 41 minutes long ... I can not remember the last time we talked that long. I know there were things I could have handled better, but I did pretty well. I am detaching and she is trying to suck me in ... so far that Star-Trek device T2'D mentioned seems to be helping, I just need to read the operators manual a bit better. During the conversation when I felt the urge to speak/fix ... I thought .. nope .. this is her journey she needs to get through this. I STFU, listened, validated the best I could.
So .. I make a new thread that is all about me and my journey ... anyone else see the irony here..lol
So ... TODAY, I am taking a half day, I get to participate in S's Reconciliation Retreat ... I am looking forward to that, we leave early and who knows .. thinking a nice afternoon having some boy fun!
Hi Cali. Love the name of your new thread, sounds like you are on a good path! That song has meaning to me too. Actually, my H asked me to listen to it after I moved back home, I figured it symbolized something for him. The lyrics of songs have always been a big thing for him. Ok, I have to brag a little, but I actually met Dave Grohl this last memorial day, camping at an RV park in Paso Robles! He was super friendly to everyone that approached him, really cool guy!
Anyhoo, keep up the good work
Hey Capt Cali,
Love the thread title, FF are one of my faves, that song got a lot of spin the past couple years at my house. Another one was "Times Like These".
Remember you always do the best you can at the time, no one does anything perfectly, and no one "mistake" will make, or break, the sitch.
Your W may be peeking out, having a moment of clarity, but those come and go many times, lol... ugh...
Long uncomfortable pause. This may have been a mistake .. maybe not .. I am not sure .. time will tell. But I told her "I don't know ... (shared to much here and I know it .. but it came out) how do you love someone who has hurt you so much, who does not want you in their life, its hard to justify loving someone like that"
When stbxw asked the "Do you still love me" question, I said yes, I do, but I'm not "in-love" with you right now. Oh, irony, karma, whatever it is.
You know that wasn't executed the best...those judgmental statements at the end... I know you know, but obviously you don't, otherwise you wouldn't have said them, right? (lol, I've no idea where I've heard THAT before)
It's hard sometimes, for us LBS to NOT assume we are correct, "right", and the MLC'er is "wrong". For all we know, this is the path that God, karma, the universe, whatever, set them on, and surely we are not more correct than God or the universe, right?
If you truly are giving her and the sitch to God, then her question looks different. It's asking if YOU can love in a spiritual/godly way...unconditionally. Imo.
Your answer, what does that tell you about that ^^^?
What does unconditional love mean to you?
And I have read and seen enough sitches where the path the MLC'er is set upon actually benefited the LBS, in the end. Whether is was the agent of change to get a person away from an abusive situation, or maybe to transform the LBS into someone better and out of their per-defined ideas of what M/R is and how it should be lived, reconciled or with NP.
Some things we just don't know the purpose behind it all, if there even is one.
That's the "mystery" of life, and keeps it from being a computer program.
Sorry for the philosophical plasma leak...
TS^D
So .. yeah I know the judgmental thing was bad, I knew it as I was saying it and was looking for Clkint to grab the Hurt Little on and put him in his cage. Its like I had to make sure she knew she hurt me ..... minor backslide, I was not emotional when I said it and she at least admitted she did as much .. but yes .. you are on point in calling me out for it. I know better .. I really do.
So the "Do you still Love me?" thing. Truth .. yes just as you said I do love her, and I do feel its unconditional ... I just did not want to admit it to her. Its like if I do then she still has me as that safetly blanket, cake-eat .. whatever and I do not want that any longer. Its like a game, I hate that it is .. and maybe I am wrong for the way I handled it, I never said I did not love her, I just said how can I>? I know in my heart I do but it frustrates me she knows it to and seems to use it to make sure I do not pull back to far .. but I have .. I have detached more and more as I learn "To Walk Again"
And your Philosophical Plasma ... well .. little do you know .. I think you are touching on a big thing I have begun to realize.
There is NO WAY I would have found myself here. I was in a bad relationship, allowed it to be a verbally abusive one... I would not be on my knees, formed the relationship with God, strive to be "That Man" I have painted in my head with out going through all that I have. I was a fixer and a pleaser and I would have gone through the motions to make it look this way just to make someone else happy. This situation ... I was thinking about this on the drive home. Its like W closed the door on our marriage ... for some time I was pounding and beating on that door ... got tired and started just knocking on it ... grew more tired and then suddenly realized a mirror was placed on that door, one I have never seen ... so I took a long hard/difficult look at myself and realized the door was never the problem nor the obstacle .. it was me. So I started working on that person, one day that door will open, who knows what is behind it ... I will worry about that when I can look at myself and appear presentable and know I am ready to allow that door to open into the next life that awaits me.
Good job on standing up for what YOU thought x-mas should be like.
Its like I had to make sure she knew she hurt me ..... minor backslide, I was not emotional when I said it and she at least admitted she did as much
Yes, they are aware, sometimes they un-bury it for a while.
Its like if I do then she still has me as that safetly blanket, cake-eat .. whatever and I do not want that any longer. Its like a game, I hate that it is .. and maybe I am wrong for the way I handled it, I never said I did not love her, I just said how can I>? I know in my heart I do but it frustrates me she knows it to and seems to use it to make sure I do not pull back to far
Yes, they do this... lots of people told me I was her "safe spot".
What do you think would happen if you really pulled back? I mean REALLY pulled back. Say, after the holidays are over?
Because, I bet she can still "feel" your "connection" to her, probably discern it from your voice, little facial expressions, etc.
A thought experiment, at least right now?
Good job on standing up for what YOU thought x-mas should be like.
Its like I had to make sure she knew she hurt me ..... minor backslide, I was not emotional when I said it and she at least admitted she did as much
Yes, they are aware, sometimes they un-bury it for a while.
Its like if I do then she still has me as that safetly blanket, cake-eat .. whatever and I do not want that any longer. Its like a game, I hate that it is .. and maybe I am wrong for the way I handled it, I never said I did not love her, I just said how can I>? I know in my heart I do but it frustrates me she knows it to and seems to use it to make sure I do not pull back to far
Yes, they do this... lots of people told me I was her "safe spot".
What do you think would happen if you really pulled back? I mean REALLY pulled back. Say, after the holidays are over?
One of two things. I think the emotions are high at the moment. Last year she was on the high of the new A, now for whatever reason I get the vibe A is over .. not sure .. don't care. So If I really pull back, as I have .... she will continue to have that alone time to continue her journey, possibly realize what she is losing and who knows .. maybe she comes to terms with putting the new her and the old her together and figuring out what she wants. Or .... she continues to try to fill the void with OM 1 or a possible OM2 ... hard for me to really predict ya know? Regardless .... I am not wanting to be inside that tornado. I also do not want to be a crutch any longer. I would LOVE for her to chose option 1 and decide she wants me, our M and our family. I have realized even if she decides that I will require more, I never was firm about what I want, my needs, how I would like my life to be. I was consumed with keeping the peace and walking on egg shells .... that M is dead ... if she wants a new M with me we would have to start over. Because, I bet she can still "feel" your "connection" to her, probably discern it from your voice, little facial expressions, etc.
Yeah ... 24 years together its really hard playing poker with someone that knows every tell you have. I might aswell glue my hand to my forehead. So the only card I can play is what I learned in SERE training ... Survive/evade/resist/escape ... STFU and do not give out any intel. make her guess .. this has been working. But there is a fine line of pulling back, and just being cold. A difficult line to walk. A thought experiment, at least right now?
I can not mind read and predict what she will do ... however I do know that she has to figure herself out and what she wants without me all up in her face. So yeah .. I have pulled back, in reaction she temp checks and pulls closer. I have decided my journey can not include waiting on "our bench" .... I know the man I want to be, I am actively doing things to get there ... I would love for her to be a part of that, but she has her own journey to finish up first.
But there is a fine line of pulling back, and just being cold. A difficult line to walk.
There is some more wiggle room, some more space to show you heard her, and to show a wee bit more of what life without you could look/feel like.
For example:
Then the phone rings ... I answer and its W. Asking if I was awake
So, you don't have caller-id or her number in your contacts identifying her? And could have let it go to VM, then listen to the VM and determine if kid or emergency, call back in 5 min, or if not, 2 hours?
But there is a fine line of pulling back, and just being cold. A difficult line to walk.
There is some more wiggle room, some more space to show you heard her, and to show a wee bit more of what life without you could look/feel like.
For example:
Then the phone rings ... I answer and its W. Asking if I was awake
So, you don't have caller-id or her number in your contacts identifying her? And could have let it go to VM, then listen to the VM and determine if kid or emergency, call back in 5 min, or if not, 2 hours?
Yeah .. I actually have been doing that with texts ... if it was not about S or important .. I might reply in 30 minutes or so ... if at all. This instant last night .. she TM something about S and school.... I got up and took a shower, ate .... picked up the phone and replied "ok" and whammo the thing buzzed in my hand and I had that panic attack like I just cut the wrong wire on the bomb... lol. So I felt obligated to answer rather than ignore when she knew I just texted her ... she is cagey man .. cagey... lol
I have been doing VERY well with texts .. seemed to be my donwfall .... I do not fire back right away, and when and if she started spew or any R talk I refuse to respond after setting the boundary with her that I would not discuss important items via phone or TM as I do not want to be misunderstood any longer. That has helped tremendously for me.
So I felt obligated to answer rather than ignore when she knew I just texted her
but the original text from her wasn't an emergency, if I read correctly?
Hm...
Hey Cal. I wont go through the whole convo unless you would like me to. I know what fun that is for you. LOL~
I do want to just say this. I agree with my bud, T2. There was no reason for you to take the call.
You are getting there on detaching..but you still have a ways to go.
When she said, "I made a mess of my life", your answer should be......say it with me now..."Sorry you feel that way."
She knows you love her, C. Trust me on that.
She doesnt get to dump her stuff on you anymore..unless you let her.
And she again put you in the position of defending yourself and you played right into it.
You can be cordial without being mean. It's like you want to know what she is thinking. Right now, it doesnt matter.
She knows she can count on you to listen to her. So, what's changed, ya know?
Get out of her head, C. Leave her to this. You cannot move forward if you are looking over your shoulder at her and the same goes for her.
I know you are trying. I can see it. You just have to take the leap of faith and really believe the words that you wrote. That it is in His hands and what is supposed to happen, will.
You just have to take the leap of faith and really believe the words that you wrote...
^^^^
So I felt obligated to answer rather than ignore when she knew I just texted her
but the original text from her wasn't an emergency, if I read correctly?
Hm...
Yea, you have to get to a place where you arent fearful of doing what you perceive as the wrong thing. You are still so worried about her reactions, when the truth is, they arent your problem right now...
Ok .. Maybe I am just confused or missing this.... both yes.
I think I understand ... and it is just hard, seems cruel to me .. I know I know .. I can not fix her.
So basically NC her ... let her get through her stuff, stay PMA do my GAL's and at all costs do not get sucked in.
I know Christmas she is going to pull out the stops .. I just know it. I have set into place what I think should happen. uR and Ts^D Thank you ... this is not easy for me. I see someone I care about suffering badly and there is little I can do. Save myself .. let God have it .. rinse and repeat.
Cal, this is how I looked at it. I loved my h so much that I wanted what was best for him. What was best for him was for me to allow him to try to figure himself out. He couldnt do that if I was always there.
I wanted to honor my marriage and our long relationship by letting him go with love. I know that doesnt sound like it makes sense, but, it is how I felt.
He couldnt do what he needed to do if I was always there to listen to him talk about how messed up he was. Even if I didnt say one word, in his mind, I was agreeing with him. As long as he felt that way, he didnt have to do anything different.
You do not have to be cruel. I was never cruel. I was always kind, cordial and respectful even when he was doing some horrific things.
I just did not engage. I did not allow him to call whenever he felt like it or stop by at anytime.
I did that not only for him, but, for me. I couldnt fully detach with him in contact all the time.
You can answer some texts and calls, but keep them short. She starts talking about her or her family or anything other than your son, you change the subject and move along.
I know it is hard to see her struggling and hurting. I get it, trust me. But she will not try anything different as long as she keeps getting what she needs from you. There is no need for her to look within because her world is exactly the same for the most part.
She gets to be with her child. She gets to unload on Cal. She has you doing the stuff she needs you to do. She gets to live her life however she wants to, so she can just continue to coast.
Love her enough to let her go. Love yourself enough, too. Leave her in His capable hands.
I know the man I want to be, I am actively doing things to get there ... I would love for her to be a part of that, but she has her own journey to finish up first.
I would agree on that part, and I see you really wanting to believe it, although I don't see you trusting yourself to consistently get there.....
All the wondering about this text, or this call. Do I answer now or later ?
Do I leave a message, or return this call is tiring huh ??
What is the meaning behind these words, or this conversation. Man, it's not paying into what you said above.
I would suggest that you just start trusting yourself to know when you are capable of handling these interactions, and let the contact flow as you are willing.
There is no right or wrong answer with it, and I have seen it play out in a variety of ways.
How, When, Where, and Why you respond, should be based on how you are able to respond at that time. Child emergencies however, trump every thing else.
It is a razor's edge Cali....and finding that balance is hard to do.
I can tell you this....
As long as you are looking backward to see if, how, and why SHE reacts, takes your focus off of moving forward.
You have to lead by looking forward...no other way to do it.
And every time that you look back, it shows that you don't trust your leadership.
Cali, It's not cruel, it's hearing her. It's you accepting her choices for her life at the moment, and respecting them, even though you may not agree.
And you making choices for YOUR life regardless of her choices, imo (you did read NMMNG... ).
Here's the parameters I used in the beginning to make it more clear cut for me until I really trusted myself:
Kid emergency? Immediate response.
Kid issue, but not emergency? Within 15 minutes.
Business/divorce/finances? Within 30 minutes.
Her issues, "non-emergency"? Wait 2 hours.
Calls without a text first? To voice mail, then from there determine what category ^^^ was appropriate.
And I set a boundary with her, that unless a dire emergency, to text before calling.
This helped me have a a method in place until I got my own strength and trust solidified. Now I am more flexible.
For example, recently when she texted that wanted to talk, and I knew she was struggling, she texted at 7:53 am...so when I got to work, I texted back that I needed to have coffee (and she knows I need my coffee) and check my work agenda first, that I'd let her know when a good time would be (had to get those shields powered up and all...
).
Thank you all for your responses ... I am truly blessed that you have spent time and have helped me up to this point
uR: I completely get letting her go, I understand she will not sort through her issues with me there. I failed in recognizing I am her safety net, the fact she knows she can just call me for the quick fix does not force her to look deeply inward and do the hard work she needs to do. The hurt little boy wants her to be better, wants her to get through this provided that ends her up with me .... yeah I just 2x4'd that little boy, this will go where it will, that much I know is out of my control. I realized I don't have her to call in this sitch, but she has me ... I need to correct this and see it coming before she [censored] me in and we jump back on this MLC merry go round that seems to be stuck as you all can clearly see it from afar, not allowing her nor I to advance in our separate journeys, I am to close to the fire.... I get it.... I think ... anyone seen where my eyebrows went?? ... lol
Mach: Yeah, becoming the man I want to be, trusting it .. you are right. I do not fully buy into it yet ... mostly because I do not love myself enough just yet .. I am getting there .. but still have work to do .. I still struggle internally with things I am trying to change about myself but notice I have weak days and fall back into that old Cali ... then I plug along ... 2 steps forward one back, I still have my eyes on the prize. I do think .. .the new stenght I felt I had may have been misleading .. I get myself together and feel strong, and think I can handle a conversation with her, it goes good then she pulls out a curve and I just watch it sail by into the catchers mitt and think ... Wait ... WTF was that??!!... I did not read about that in the DB book!!! ... and off I go scrambling to figure it all out again when I should just know something offspeed is coming, let it go by and just wait for my pitch.
TS^D: I have been doing really well with the TM stuff. Well .. in a way .. some I just do not respond to at all, not to punish .. but just the fact there is nothing to respond to ... maybe a chance to just validate instead, not sure. I think the other night ... I knew deep down she was struggling and honestly thought it was a chance to STFU, listen and validate .... but hindsight I should have replied via TM that I was exhausted and going to go to sleep and we could talk later, would have been much more effective I think ... I fell into the "Oh I could be there for her and show her what a supportive husband I have turned into" .... but all I seem to do is be a crutch and that is not helping her work on things she needs to face.
So ... bit of an update.
So I worked 1/2 day and went to S's school ... Reconciliation Retreat. Was pretty cool ... we did a craft project together and he and I made the most kick-a$$ banner ever ... cuz we are cool like that. Then the assignment was to go through the 10 commandments and list the one we need to repent for. Role Play .. one the Priest the other the Confessor. Was pretty cool.
So after, we grabbed some groceries .. a movie .. played chess, just had a nice night .... W TM asking how it went .. I simply replied a few hours later with pics I took of S .. left it at that.
S Called her to say goodnight .. she was all happy go lucky .. kinda upset me, one night she is all depressed .. the next almost to happy ... then I envisioned a stop sign .. left the room to go shower. Yup ... not gonna go there.
I dropped off S this morning ... early as its Friday and he needs his Mass uniform, W still had it from last week and never gave it to me ... well this set her off, letting me know I have to remind her, she can not do it all, started in me on washing his hair brushing his teeth .. I stopped her, calmly told her Friday is the same thing and for the past 3 weeks she has not given me the Uni so I bring him early to make sure he is all set, I am a good father I take care of him and do the things I need to do, said have a nice day and left.
At around 9:00 I receive a TM
W:I'm sorry for getting upset. I got stressed out. Its not your fault. Its mine.
W: See That's huge for me
I replied around 12...
M: Its ok I can understand how you would feel stressed
Ok ... this is as close to the validation sheet as I could figure .. lol ... I really wanted to reply "Please return this phone to my wife, she does not apologize .. thanks" Which is true and made me laugh a bit ... hey if you can not find some humor .. I think MLC will kill you first.
12:30 W: The fact I am finally apologizing is huge and not letting it ruin my day. I'm changing. Yet at your expense. Again I'm sorry.
Then she text'd me info about S that I receive as she does via email ...
I have not responded ... but this is new. She rarely if ever apologizes, she has always been that way, youngest of 5 and the pretty one .. she typically gets her way and has been used to that. I am actually not really phased today, in a good place and treating this more as a guy at the zoo watching .. taking mental notes ... like .. hmmm .. ok that one is new, not putting much weight on it but acknowledging something that is not typical.
Other than that ... just working, having a nice day that has been more productive than normal ... I find myself not looking for MLC answers as much ... not like I ever found em .. I think those must be in a vault locked up where we would have to give away our first born or something
Hey C, I have been away for a few days so have just caught up on your sitch.
Its like reading my own life - your feelings, your thoughts - funny (not ha ha) that us LBS all seem to follow the same script too.
Its great you have finally realised that you are enabling w and in the process continually hurting yourself. You are doing so well - its a daily battle but the more you do now the easier it will be in the future.
Keep going, stay strong. Hugs to you
Change is tough, Cali. You seem to have a good handle on navigating it. I agree with Mach - trust yourself. You're a much stronger man than you may believe at the moment. But you're building that trust.
Looking back offers you nothing. Believe that. You're different so the history is mostly irrelevant.
I really like this:
Other than that ... just working, having a nice day that has been more productive than normal ... I find myself not looking for MLC answers as much
I read your earlier post about your phone conversation. When she asked you if you loved her, and you hesitated and weren't sure. I didn't get a chance to post then, but I was struck by the feeling that you almost felt guilty. Is that the case?
Can I suggest something to you? No matter what happens you are a changed man. You are not the same person you were a year ago. Nor will you be. You're better, stronger, faster and worth 6 million dollars
Do you believe that for there to be a relationship (of any kind) that your W will have to catch up? Do the work? Build the tools?
She certainly isn't caught up, Cali. You've sensed that she needs the space to become who she needs to be. With or without you. You do need to give her that, right?
It's the same for you. You need the space to become more fully you. And you're well on that path and accelerating. That's important. Very important. Until you can trust yourself, why would anyone else trust you more?
The time you get with your S? That's priceless. They grow up so fast!
AJ
I read your earlier post about your phone conversation. When she asked you if you loved her, and you hesitated and weren't sure. I didn't get a chance to post then, but I was struck by the feeling that you almost felt guilty. Is that the case?
No .. like I had said ... I do love her, I just did not want to say it, its like she temp checked me and as others have told me she knows I love her so there is no reason for her to look internally and do some work on herself .. she still has everything she needs and still has me as a safety blanket. Its like I say "Yes I still love you" and she runs back into the tunnel
Can I suggest something to you? No matter what happens you are a changed man. You are not the same person you were a year ago. Nor will you be. You're better, stronger, faster and worth 6 million dollars
Do you believe that for there to be a relationship (of any kind) that your W will have to catch up? Do the work? Build the tools?
She certainly isn't caught up, Cali. You've sensed that she needs the space to become who she needs to be. With or without you. You do need to give her that, right?
I absolutely believe she will need to do the work, and yeah you are right ... I am well ahead and she has some catching up to do and from what I have seen, she is just starting to scratch the surface. I do fear by the time she does this work, our separation will have been so long that there will not be anything left between us ... out of my control, I still want my M, do ont want to accept its over ... but logically .. I know its a fate I may very well just have to accept.
It's the same for you. You need the space to become more fully you. And you're well on that path and accelerating. That's important. Very important. Until you can trust yourself, why would anyone else trust you more?
The time you get with your S? That's priceless. They grow up so fast!
AJ
I think its cyclic for me ... there are times I am totally comfortable with where I am and where I am going, knowing its good for me, I am growing and I would not in a R with her. Then there are the bouts with the lonliness, the longing for family, I fill these with the GAL but ... well lets be honest its fill ... I know its a gift, and I have a ways to go. I can only focus on me ... but there are times admittedly I do look back, hope she is coming along. This I need to stop ... do me .. keep reminding myself I have given my M and her to God, his will ... I have faith I will be delivered from tI am in a better place now, from where I was a year ago .. this all was for a reason. Not sure where it all lands, but I am thankful so much for the opportunity to change the way I have, without all this ... the Separation, the A, I would not have been forced to look at myself the way I have, nor do the work.
So update
This morning was S's Reconciliation at the Church/School. I DJ'd last night so waking up at 7 is always a blast when you go to sleep around 3. I just had woken up and was starting to move about .. W TM me asking me to come over on my way to do S's hair because she "is terrible at it" ... I stared at the phone and thought .. "Really?" .... um no. I jumped in the shower, get out .. W calls ... asking if I was going to wear a tie, or just a shirt as she was not sure how dressed up she should get ... I tell her I will meet them at the School
So ... an hour prior to the event the parents are in the classroom, children in the other class room. They discuss Reconciliation, show a movie ... I was sitting there thinking about all this, how ironic. The stories that were shared in the film, W could have starred in ... her R with her mother for one. So we get through that and thne a guy gets up and shares his story. Catholic who divorced his W, she did not want the D, but he pressed for it .. still ashamed and regrets it thought he has remarried. I kept eyes forward thinking .. Ok God, you are sending some pretty strong messages but honestly not sure W is open to hearing you right now.
So we leave, go to the church was a nice experience ... finish up and W tells me I can go as she was just waiting for S friend and family to come out for pictures ... so I leave, go home .. take a nap, ran a few errands on the Harley.. and watched some football, picked up a movie I will watch later tonight.
So thinking ... seems after that talk her and I had .. she got what she needed from me and now is off in her own world again ... you all are right .. I am to much in her head .. and need to do my thing. I have been dark all day, will continue to do so. I've got this ... and gave her to God, just need to keep working as I have .. I will get there.
I realized something yesterday ... the R I have with S, amazing .. sure we spent time prior to BD/Sep ... but not like this .. I did not appreciate it like I do now, I focus on my limited time with him ... I am thankful for that, so blessed in this way it fills my heart.
I think its cyclic for me ... there are times I am totally comfortable with where I am and where I am going, knowing its good for me, I am growing and I would not in a R with her. Then there are the bouts with the lonliness, the longing for family, I fill these with the GAL but ... well lets be honest its fill ... I know its a gift, and I have a ways to go. I can only focus on me ... but there are times admittedly I do look back, hope she is coming along.
100% normal, Cali. We all go through this. Nothing wrong with it at all.
---------
Some of that church stuff (about R and doing the "right" thing and such) could definitely put a lot of pressure on your wife. I'd be careful with that. I know you are not forcing her to go, but imagine these messages from her point of view, and the ways you could mitigate them.
Its like I say "Yes I still love you" and she runs back into the tunnel
Be true to yourself, Cali. I agree it's not helpful to continue to tell our wife's we love them. But if they ask, we should answer honestly. Your wife is confused and unsure of which way to go. Be her rock. You are strong enough to do this.
Thank FY ... yeah I can see how there might be some pressure, I am pretty sensitive about that.... She knows I am going through the process, and going to church on a consistent basis, I do not invite her any longer ... I just ask my S if he would like to go and typically he does.
I think back to that "Do you love me" statement .. I failed in how to answer that one. I think thats why this MLC thing is so frustrating .. seems no right/wrong way .. no cut and dried system. Nothing makes sense .. its not black and white and I just do not handle shades of grey well ... live and learn I suppose.
So journal-ling-a-ding ...
So yesterday I TM W that I am on my way to mass, will pick up S at 10:30. I also remind her I need his Mass uniform for Monday. I go to mass, I was not in a great place ... the lonliness .. the holidays .. the sitch ... all this just has been adding alot of weight to me. So I just try to get myself right with God, and keep on plugging away. I go and pick up S ... I notice that she moved the couch and put up the tree ... yeah .. the tree OM bought her last year. I know I know .. but I am human .. this one still stings. So in my head it just solidified the fact I will not be at her place for any type of gift opening for S ... she has chosen this, this is what she wants .. and yeah .. I am angry about it. S and I go run some errands, I boutgh him his first wallet ... lil dude was so proud ... was a nice thing to see. Then W TM me reminding me again about next weekend how we are switching days so S can go to a B day party .... however real reason she has not mentioned is she has her company Christmas party to attend Sat night. Again .. I am angry ... assuming she is going with OM ... I know I must let this go I am just tired of the lies ... especially around the Holidays to be reminded of all the deceit and betrayal that went down last year as I was completely in the dark. Maybe this anger can be of good use and I can propel myself to fully detach .... its my only way out of this mess.
So I ignored the text .. went about my day with S. I had a 2:00 tour with the church... part of my RCIA program and I thought it would be good for S to be there with me. We get there, only about 6-7 of us out of the entire group ... go inside as one of the members is going through the mass, some of the things about the church. Then Father George, the churches pastor happens by, knows who we are (as the RCIA group) and welcomes us .. tells us how thrilled he is we are there. Then he pulls out his wallet and asks if (my full name) is there. I answer in fact that I was and he said he pulled my name out of the basket and that he prays for me every day. I was floored, he has no idea about me nor my sitch ... and he also had no idea how much it meant to me nor how much I really needed that. I have no doubt God is helping me through this ... all the days angst and troubles melted away at that point for me as I realized I have given it to God, and this was his way of letting me know he has it.
So this morning I dropped off S .. very quick and short, I hugged him told him to have a nice day, told W bye and turned and left .. as she closed the door I heard "Have a nice day" in one of those ... not sure what is wrong tomes ... I plan on NC/Dark for some time until I can trust myself not to get sucked in again.
seems no right/wrong way .. no cut and dried system. Nothing makes sense .. its not black and white and I just do not handle shades of grey well ... live and learn I suppose.
No, there isn't, it's a opsit re-assessment all the time...lol.
Now about that black/white thinking...
Why do you think you don't handle the "greys" well?
I think back to that "Do you love me" statement .. I failed in how to answer that one. I think thats why this MLC thing is so frustrating .. seems no right/wrong way .. no cut and dried system. Nothing makes sense .. its not black and white and I just do not handle shades of grey well ... live and learn I suppose.
MLC makes perfect sense, you just happen to be on a different side of it.
Like I said earlier to you...it really depends on YOUR focus on this path in life....
Where does your trust lie, and with whom does it lie...
What is happening TO you, FOR you, BY you, with you, without you....
Who holds that key ???
Why would this be different, how would it be different, would you want it to be different...????
What is your desired outcome ???
Only if it is easy ??
Better or worse, which would you choose ??
Anyone can do the "better" , but who decides what is better and what is worse ???
To what degree, is your level of worse ?
To what degree were you willing to ACCEPT better ???
What does it mean in the end Cali...
What are you willing to GIVE, for a chance at the "better" ???
So yesterday I TM W that I am on my way to mass, will pick up S at 10:30. I also remind her I need his Mass uniform for Monday. I go to mass, I was not in a great place ... the lonliness .. the holidays .. the sitch ... all this just has been adding alot of weight to me. So I just try to get myself right with God, and keep on plugging away. I go and pick up S ... I notice that she moved the couch and put up the tree ... yeah .. the tree OM bought her last year. I know I know .. but I am human .. this one still stings. So in my head it just solidified the fact I will not be at her place for any type of gift opening for S ... she has chosen this, this is what she wants .. and yeah .. I am angry about it. S and I go run some errands, I boutgh him his first wallet ... lil dude was so proud ... was a nice thing to see. Then W TM me reminding me again about next weekend how we are switching days so S can go to a B day party .... however real reason she has not mentioned is she has her company Christmas party to attend Sat night. Again .. I am angry ... assuming she is going with OM ... I know I must let this go I am just tired of the lies ... especially around the Holidays to be reminded of all the deceit and betrayal that went down last year as I was completely in the dark. Maybe this anger can be of good use and I can propel myself to fully detach .... its my only way out of this mess.
So I ignored the text .. went about my day with S. I had a 2:00 tour with the church... part of my RCIA program and I thought it would be good for S to be there with me. We get there, only about 6-7 of us out of the entire group ... go inside as one of the members is going through the mass, some of the things about the church. Then Father George, the churches pastor happens by, knows who we are (as the RCIA group) and welcomes us .. tells us how thrilled he is we are there. Then he pulls out his wallet and asks if (my full name) is there. I answer in fact that I was and he said he pulled my name out of the basket and that he prays for me every day. I was floored, he has no idea about me nor my sitch ... and he also had no idea how much it meant to me nor how much I really needed that. I have no doubt God is helping me through this ... all the days angst and troubles melted away at that point for me as I realized I have given it to God, and this was his way of letting me know he has it.
So this morning I dropped off S .. very quick and short, I hugged him told him to have a nice day, told W bye and turned and left .. as she closed the door I heard "Have a nice day" in one of those ... not sure what is wrong tomes ... I plan on NC/Dark for some time until I can trust myself not to get sucked in again.
ALL of that ^^^ , up there....
What is the common theme behind it ???
It is a reaction, of how this is affecting YOU....
And how your emotions are still tied to what you draw from others around you....
You seem to draw YOUR power from the people that surround you.
What if all of that changed, and you could project YOUR power onto others ???
How would that change your interactions ??
And yes, I do see you getting angry, and I think that is a good thing...
Just remember to use your anger as a shield , NOT as a sword...
I notice that she moved the couch and put up the tree ... yeah .. the tree OM bought her last year. I know I know .. but I am human .. this one still stings. So in my head it just solidified the fact I will not be at her place for any type of gift opening for S ... she has chosen this, this is what she wants .. and yeah .. I am angry about it.
Nope, this is your choice. At least own it. Not opening presents with your son cause of a tree. On one hand I get it, thats the hand that's cutting off my nose though.
My wife got rid of all the crap he had gotten her...AFTER she she started to come around. It was a losing battle before then.
Pick you battles, fight wisely and maybe win the war.
That was a non-negotiable term for us getting back together...when it was the right time for it.
Mach
Ok ... so you have, as typical, given me a post I read, thought about ... read again... closed the windows .. and had to read a few more times. You are spot on ... the reoccuring thought in my head is screaming at me this is me. My issue .. I am the one having a hard time ... I am the one allowing her to get me to spin .. heck she is not even trying to do it on purpose. Yet here I am ... obsessing over what>? Things out of my control thats what ... and what lif eis that? How attractive is that ? Is that who I am trying to be? NO ... I need to remind myself of that more often. This is my journey, my chance at a better life regardless if my M is salvaged or not .. .to be honest the one I was in was not all that wonderful, I have learned from that, I should be thankful for the MLC as it has opened my eyes and taught me what I do not want, what I do ... and a few tools to use along the way to get there. Not sure if that will have W or not at this point, that's a bridge I must cross later.
I hold the key to all this. I hold the power to be the man I desire to be, I am the Captain of this ship regardless of the storm its in.
I have this fear ... fear of losing her but as I look at it ... I have lost her, so what am I afraid of? .. its already happened. I must trust things will get better and I realize they wont with me holding on to what is not there, use that energy instead to keep growing and become the person I want to be.
I notice that she moved the couch and put up the tree ... yeah .. the tree OM bought her last year. I know I know .. but I am human .. this one still stings. So in my head it just solidified the fact I will not be at her place for any type of gift opening for S ... she has chosen this, this is what she wants .. and yeah .. I am angry about it.
Nope, this is your choice. At least own it. Not opening presents with your son cause of a tree. On one hand I get it, thats the hand that's cutting off my nose though.
I understand how this may be taken as cutting off my nose to spite my face type move. And maybe I am wrong ... but I do think she needs to feel the Holidays without me ... by my being there .. she gets what she wants .. a cake eat fest. I respect your input on this ... I have no answers honestly.
I have this fear ... fear of losing her but as I look at it ... I have lost her, so what am I afraid of? .. its already happened. I must trust things will get better and I realize they wont with me holding on to what is not there, use that energy instead to keep growing and become the person I want to be.
YES!
Don't beat yourself up about the things she does, Cali. Those are her choices. How you react are your choices.
I wonder if how you are reacting to things in keeping with who you want to be?
And don't worry about "I should have said this or done that" for very long. There is no right or wrong answer. But be honest with yourself and the rest will follow. That's all you have to worry about.
What are the plans for the next week? Christmas shopping with your son?
AJ
I have this fear ... fear of losing her but as I look at it ... I have lost her, so what am I afraid of? .. its already happened. I must trust things will get better and I realize they wont with me holding on to what is not there, use that energy instead to keep growing and become the person I want to be.
YES!
Don't beat yourself up about the things she does, Cali. Those are her choices. How you react are your choices.
I wonder if how you are reacting to things in keeping with who you want to be?
Yeah I think just knowing there is nothing I can do about her choices was a hurdle ... still does not take all the sting out on some of the things she does ... but you are right ... how I react is in my control and that is what I am working on .... I am making progress but it does seem during these Holidays her choices are amplified as they effect more than just her and I. Again .. not my choice, I can only do/control what I do.
I am not sure how the person who I aim to be would react to these things .. maybe very similar .. I would still be hurt disappointed ... in the past I would have lashed out and made sure she knew she hurt me .. I do not do this any more. Baby-steps.
And don't worry about "I should have said this or done that" for very long. There is no right or wrong answer. But be honest with yourself and the rest will follow. That's all you have to worry about.
What are the plans for the next week? Christmas shopping with your son?
AJ
Thats the thing .. I was not honest with myself, I do love her and just should have said I still love her .... but it just seems like the cycle is she probes, makes sure I still love her so she can continue down this path she is on ... staying in the tunnel as there is no reason to come out .. must be cozy in there and she found a blanket ... who knows.
Plans for next week .... honestly I do not really have many. I am trying to stay away from all this Christmas stuff to a point. I think W is taking S up north next Thursday so I will ride the Harley a bit, take a few trips that weekend I have been wanting to do. I have a project/ Modification on the bike I have been dreaming up and will start that over the Holidays. I typically am a big gift buyer, this year I am cutting back, refocusing what the Holiday means to me, Going to try and make new memories and traditions with my son.
Just a mini update. (only like 5 paragraphs ... lol)
Yesterday W TM about this weekend and the fact she is taking him Thursday during the day as School is not in session... I ignored as I already told her I would take S Saturday night (She has her Christmas party but is telling me its so S can go to a B-day party Sunday) So all dark up to when S calls her, he always puts her on speaker and half the time they Facetime ... so I typically am going about my business reading/folding clothes what have you. I do notice her moods are all over the place lately ... sometimes she is up on cloud 9 .. almost to happy .. other times she sounds fine.. then others she sounds a bit depressed .. just observing and thinking this MLC thing must put one all over the spectrum and how exhausting that must be not to be able to be "even" for the most part.
Anyways .. as they talk I jump in the shower ... I get out and finish up my laundry ... yanno .. GAL'ing my tail off .. lol. I put S down, we pray .. and off to bed he goes. I start reading a bit .... W TM around 9 "Did you get my text about Thursday?" ... followed 10 min later with a "Hello?" ... then 2 missed calls and a voicemail for me to call her back. I finished up my chapter, and TM her about an hour later that I did recieve it, left it at that.
This morning she TM me about S Chrsitmas list, how much it will be and to let her know as she was about to order it all online... I TM her back telling her to buy what she would like for him, let me know what she gets as I would be buying him gifts myself and not splitting it with her. She then asked again about Saturday .. I told her I would once again take him and knew the reason so she did not feel she had to lie to me. She replied with "I'm not lying to you, nor am I about to answer to you like you own me"
I did not reply to that .... Dropped S off, short exchange no talking .. just told her about him having something in his eye and off to work I went. She TM about S test scores .. I replied back 30 min or so later that I was proud of him.
So ... detaching better at the moment ... I'm sure the push and pull between her and I will continue, I just need to keep out when she hits that low "help me" point and let her figure it out on her own.
Been focused at work alot better as of late, getting some side projects that I have wanted to get acomplished since I tool over here delegated to some guys who are not busy and seem to appreciate the new responsibilities
I have noticed/relized so many areas of my life are so much better than where I was 1 1/2 years ago ... work is going very well, new job, I am appreciated here and they leave me be. My R with S is amazing, I realized that I would not cherish the limited times we have like now if I were still with W ... its like he and I just took off like a rocket ... I love the bond we have formed over the past year. Spiritually .. I know God is watching me and hearing my prayers ... I just need a reminder I have given my worries to him
I heard a sermon this morning that I feel a few of the Vets may relate to. Even if you are not religious I feel the message is a good one. They talked about "Redemtive Suffering" which in a nut shell suggests that we are put in difficult positions and we suffer only so we can help others who are going through the same crisis, so you have to go through this hardship in order to really help other people through it. I do not think this concept could be more true than right here, I see so many of you Vets who have "been there and done that .. have the T-shirt" .... you could have easily just gone on about your life, but you log in here, unselfishly providing guidance, support and a much needed 2x4 along the way .... there is honor in that and I can not speak for everyone .. but I know many would say this ... Thank you all.
Hiya Cal. I see you working towards where you need to be. But I would be doing you a disservice if I didnt just point this out. You know, cuz I like ya and all.
I told her I would once again take him and knew the reason so she did not feel she had to lie to me. She replied with "I'm not lying to you, nor am I about to answer to you like you own me".
Is that who you want to be? ^^^. You dont know if she is telling you the truth. Either way...not really your place to say that, right? And because you did....her reaction was what it was. She gave you valuable info there.
I know the thought of the OM hurts. I do. But the sooner you can get a handle on those feelings and let them go..the more you walk towards healing. I know it isnt easy, but, it can be done.
uR
I know ... I have been thinking some about this ... you are right I do not know if she is lying or not, honestly I would love that she goes to the Christmas party and has a great time, provided its not with OM, see ... That's the hang up I am working on. I can not stop this regardless, the thing that is getting me a bit was all the memories from last year when I was oblivious, ... back story .. BD then she moved out in Nov13 ... I had taken S around this time last year .. she went to the party, OM was her "date" she had changed her FB pic to one of her with him cropped out .. I had no idea so it all did not matter until later I learned of the entire A that was going on for who knows how long to be honest. All past hurt I am trying ... slowly to let go of.
Point is ... I am the only one hurt here. I am the only one holding on to this pain ... what good is that doing me? Yeah .. none.
So I have given it up, the "So you don't have to lie" statement ... was more towards a little frustration that she is hanging onto this birthday party like that is only/main the reason, I just felt she should know I know, stop lying .. I get it. I should have just not mentioned it at all I know.
Cal, I get it, the pain. I lived it. It hurts. But I realized that the OW didnt care if I was angry and hurt and neither did my xh. So what good was holding onto that doing me. I know the harm it was doing. It was changing me. It was keeping me stuck.
I finally decided that I mattered. I was no longer willing to lose me. It was not an option. I was too important.
Letting go of that frees you up. It allows that energy to be spent on more important things.
So, I released the feelings. It was hard. It was a process. But it was the most important thing I could do for me.
So I have given it up, the "So you don't have to lie" statement ... was more towards a little frustration that she is hanging onto this birthday party like that is only/main the reason, I just felt she should know I know, stop lying .. I get it. I should have just not mentioned it at all I know.
I get it. You're human and you expressed pain. She bit back when you did say that.
But let me ask you something - did it have the necessary effect you wanted? Did you feel better? Did you feel you sent the message that you needed to? Do you feel she heard that message?
My guess is no to the above after about 30 seconds.
This goes back to YOUR growth. To YOUR looking back. I don't blame you - it hurts. Been there. Done that. Expecting the t-shirt before long
Since you know it hurts, now what to do about it?
AJ
P.S. Hint: it's supposed to hurt, Cali. If it didn't, you wouldn't have cared if she left or not. Heck, it could have been you that left if that was the case and you wouldn't be here now. It's not about the pain per se - it's about what you do with it. Do you return it? Do you internalize it? Act like it never happened? Wait for a time when you can bring it up? If ever? What other options do you have?
^^^I needed to hear this too.^^^
AJ I will reply back in a bit .. on my way out the door. I was reading other threads ... W TM me .. "I need to speak to you about something. What time are you availible? 5 min tops"
Here I was thinking how I have been detaching and doing better, feeling stronger .. that text made my heart jump. Thankfully I am off to a meeting, no way I can talk to her for a few hours ... nor will I reply to the text for some time.
Breathe ... this detaching thing is rough stuff .... oh look butterfly.
"Breathe ... this detaching thing is rough stuff .... oh look butterfly."
Yes it sure is. I'm stealing a little of your strength CG and some others until I find my own.
First off, I would like to apologize, I believe I read your post incorrectly; mostly.
My take was that the Tree set you off and that was the reason you weren't going to open presents with your seven year old son on Christmas. That putting up that tree was her choice and because of it you weren't going to be there and making that her choice as well.
That type of thinking upsets me. I'm all about ownership of the reasons the LBS is here, as it is NOT all about the MLCers, we all had fingers in the pie.
I jumped sooner than I should have and I apologize.
I still believe that Christmas morning should be with your seven year old if you have the opportunity. You don't have a whole lot of Christmas's where he is going to believe in the magic of the day.
A few things.
Calling her out on lying...and by that I mean a lie of omission, or you know her not telling you everything. Will push her away.
And if she did tell you the truth (or what you believe is the truth) how would you have reacted?
"Thank you wife, thank you for your honesty, I truly hope you have a wonderful evening"
Or do you see an argument, fight happening?
How do you actually see that panning out if she said, I'm going to the party and OM will be there.
With separate present for your son, are they going to be from both of you or Santa, or will her presents be only from her and your presents only from you?
Last,
"I know...but..."
If you going to do something or do something that you know better at least stop saying the I know part of it.
That sort of drives us a little crazy.
Thank you for the vet comment, and your welcome, just pay it forward when you can.
Hi Cali, hang on in there.
Detaching is an internal struggle, your head and heart are in a constant wrangle with each other, allowing your head to rule for a while is a challenge that I know you can step up to and win -
You are doing great ..... I have noticed a HUGE leap since I first started reading your threads, I am hopeful that I will follow your lead and learn to walk again too. Love FF :o)
Jack ... No need to apologize at all.
Yeah you are right about the Christmas party. All the sceneros would hurt me, #1 She is going with OM, #2 She is going, without me. Anyway ya slice it .. yeah .. it hurts. I gave it some thought the past few days, added with your angle and yeah, nothing I can do regardless I was/am just frustrated at the amount of lying she has developed over the past year, but when she has told the truth its just as if not more painful to hear to be honest.
As far as Christmas, I do not know. I just don't. I am not at that detached point where I can see myself at her place being the fake family, watching S knowing everything now over the past year. Last year I was totally in the dark about it all, the Holidays admittedly have brought up alost of these emotions I was doing well with ... Halloween started it off, then more for Thanksgivings .. now dreaded Christmas. I pray that I am given the tools to handle this all with grace. will be up at her folks, and that would be just fine with me that he is around family even if I am not there, then he and I can do something when he gets back, I would be ok with that.
Lou
Thank you for those words. yeah ... I am currently just trying not to tail spin into the darkness .. update to follow.
Update
Ok ... so here we go.
The TM from W about when I would have 5 minutes tops ... I reply I was up north with clients and would be able to talk later in the evening ... she replies with "I've given it more thought. It's fine. No need to discuss."
So I left it at that and went about my day.
Then she TM "Are you back in town?"
I replied that I was, she asks if she can call, I decide .. sure I am at a place I can go ahead and talk now.
So ... the call was concerning BIL#3 (In jail) kids .. S9 and D15 the mother is not the greatest ... not married. Well not being given the specifics there is a chance somehow that W is looking to foster these 2 as the mother may be doing some jail time herself. She asked me about our S, and the impact it may have and my thoughts. I was very supportive, told her I think what she was signing up for was a big task, but that I thought it was a good thing, as far as the impact on S.. I too was concerned but felt he is grounded and a good kid and I think it may end up being a positive impact for him. I told her I would support her in any way I could if she decided to do this as family is very important.
So then she brings up "Well what about our sitch" ... I told her at this moment I am not in a place I can really talk about us, I am focused on me, maybe somewhere down the line we could discuss us. She kept pressing and said something to the fact that when she decides I will no longer support this decision, I then said something like .. sounds like you already have decided. I then re-stated I did not want a D, respected her decision but its not something I want. She told me she has not opened up to me in 5 years, can not force the feelings that are not there, few more nuggets about our R I can not recall.... then said something about the Reconciliation meeting that last Saturday in church that she did hear the man. I told her I was not going to discuss us or the R ... other than I am agianst the D.
No screaming or yelling .. but its like she is so cold and business like about it. I am not spinning, it does seem to be a cycle. At the least there has not been a "I hate you you ruined my life" but this "I have not opened up to you in 5 years "
So .. I have once again had to state I do not want a D, I think I was good in my stance that I would support her if she took on these 2 kids, I do think she is going to need alot of help if she were to take this on .... but I also do not believe this would ever really happen. I did not get upset nor emotional at any point, even though I felt myself just wanting to tell her we are not close because she has shoved me away. I do get the sense OM is back in the picture and things must be good at the moment. Time will tell ... this roller coaster continues but I do feel for now I am just watching her on it as I have hopped off for this round.
I get it. You're human and you expressed pain. She bit back when you did say that.
But let me ask you something - did it have the necessary effect you wanted? Did you feel better? Did you feel you sent the message that you needed to? Do you feel she heard that message?
I did not do it for a reaction... but as Jack later pointed out .. the truth would hurt more than her not telling all to be honest.
This goes back to YOUR growth. To YOUR looking back. I don't blame you - it hurts. Been there. Done that. Expecting the t-shirt before long
Since you know it hurts, now what to do about it?
AJ
P.S. Hint: it's supposed to hurt, Cali. If it didn't, you wouldn't have cared if she left or not. Heck, it could have been you that left if that was the case and you wouldn't be here now. It's not about the pain per se - it's about what you do with it. Do you return it? Do you internalize it? Act like it never happened? Wait for a time when you can bring it up? If ever? What other options do you have?
Yeah ... I think that is part of this ... Detach so you are not so emotionally vested, Keeping it for later use .. what is the purpose there>?... at some point you are still tethered to this ball in a way so some things still sting.
I am not sure what to do with the pain, its mine, returning it does no good, internalizing .. same ... letting it out here seems to be my only expression and I have grown and been better in my stay here.
She hasn't opened up to you in five years?
That seems a far cry from "I hate you" and "you...." doesn't it?
Seems she is working through some things as well, no?
To me, that's an acknowledgement that the old marriage is dead and was long before any "event". Can't go back to that. Either of you.
She's learning. She has a long way to go. So do you but things aren't standing still.
Go easy on yourself regarding the holidays. If you need space, then take the space. You do need to detach from the outcome. You'll always be tethered in some way to her, no matter the outcome. Unavoidable, Cali. You have a son. You have history. It is how it is, my friend. Doesn't mean you have to "fake" anything. But maybe you can reframe things?
All in all, what she did does have the good side of showing the problems that you two had. No matter what happens next, you won't have that kind of marriage. That's a plus for both of you no matter how you slice it. Maybe even a silver lining?
You said you were against D. You said now is not a good time to talk about the R. Let that sit for a while, but if you made a promise to talk, then be sure to keep that promise.
Happiness lies somewhere between how things should be and how they actually are, Cali. Something to think about
AJ
Yeah ... strangely ... its been some time since D has come up and in a strange way, I am completely at peace right now. I restated my stance and she knows I am against the D, I did acknowledge and told her I respected her choice. Left it at that ... as far as I am concerned there is no R to talk about so why do it? She chose her path, I am steadily walking on mine. Maybe she catches up .. maybe not but today my eyes are forward and not looking back. Hard to explain but I feel strong and in control .. like I decided to get off the rollercoaster for a round or two and letting her stay on it as long as she would like .... I will go over and shoot those rubber ducks for a bit ... GAL do my thing let her sort herself out.
As far as the Holidays .... yeah its going to be a space/detach event for me really .... They have been tough for me for a bit ..2011 she was out of work... .2012 first with out my father, 2013 she left .. first one alone... 2014 I have accepted the situation and plan to go for a Harley ride, do my own thing .... past sadness .. feels like I channeled that hurt and anger today to move on and keep doing the things that make me feel good, I feel God is with me, he has my M and W, His plan is much better than mine... obviously I made a mess and he is attempting clean up on aisle 3.
obviously I made a mess and he is attempting clean up on aisle 3.
"We" made a mess, Cali.
AJ
Cali -
You are so strong. I don't understand how a spouse can just be so stoic, aloof and rude. We just love them and hope for the best. I pray for you and your family.
I know they're (WAS) lost and it is so difficult to stand there and really try to be there but not be there. KWIM?
Anyway, I commend your strength and spirit. You know God will always work things out for the good - Stand on His Promises... Romans 8:28
In His Love
VGE1
Fears: Just getting them out there .. maybe I can conquer these soon.
I am scared that the woman I loved and married is gone and may never come back
I think I am more scared the woman I loved and married is in love with OM, and when she comes out of the fog and combines the old her and the new her, she will chose OM over me.
I fear my S will never have the stable "normal" home/family .. it will be broken, sure I may find someone, but it will not be his mother, it will not be the same, holidays from now till I die will not be what I want for him, he will have to chose/compromise for his entire life.
I just wanted these out .... yesterday, was surreal .. I felt so amazingly strong and empowered .. today I have just been a bit indifferent. I was at my RCIA class last night and we discussed Reconciliation ... the time has come for me, I have to schedule an appt with the Priest and confess my sins ... ALL of them. I have many, many I know are the run of the mill .. and some that I am just so ashamed of, I know this was all for me to break down the door and become the man He meant me to be .... but this hurdle is huge personally for me... I have done things that I regret and am sorry for .. and just plain ashamed of.
So after that class, I decided to take some time and just read The Book ... a few chapters in S called, later than normal and then I realized W has him today as there is no school. They were on the bed, listening to audio books, she was telling him to tell me all about it, adding details .. I miss her, and that loving way she has about her ... if anything atleast it is still there and with S.
So today all quiet .. no contact from her, she seems to be very distant this past week, other than her asking about taking on BIL#3 kids ... but with all things I am sure I said things she will process ... she has her Christmas party Sat, we will just wait and see if any movement/change happens ... till then I am just plugging along, feeling ok at the moment.
I am scared that the woman I loved and married is gone and may never come back
I fear my S will never have the stable "normal" home/family .. it will be broken, sure I may find someone, but it will not be his mother, it will not be the same, holidays from now till I die will not be what I want for him, he will have to chose/compromise for his entire life.
Cali I feel the same way about my H and kids. And since D papers are apparently on the way for me I'm trying to accept the likelihood that all of this will occur in my Sitch.
Just keep trying to do the best you can with your S ( as you already are), and focus on you.
It's all we can do at this point.
I can understand your fears, Cal.
The thing about them is that they are not under your control. No one knows what the future holds, so, it's best to live in the moment and not get ahead of yourself, right?
The great thing about reconciliation is that He forgives it all. You get to start anew. Pretty cool, yea?
I know you miss her, C. I know that's tough.
She is processing stuff. So, she heard you about not wanting a divorce, no need to say that again. My guess is that she didnt like you kind of calling her out about Saturday.
You are doing great, Cal. Really and truly.
Cali,
OM generally tend to be band aids. The fact that your W seems to have broken up with him what? 3 or 4 times? I'd take that as a good sign.
She stays in touch with you, she shares stuff with you (No not the stuff you THINK you want to hear) but little things. She is involving you. Call it cake eating call it whatever the f you want too, I'd also take that as a good sign. Alot of spouses don't take this as a sign that this is an MLC. Cause she is confused.
As for your son if this goes to a divorce, and I really get the feeling that if you get a divorce its going to be because YOU ran out patience. You're going to find out that the LBS almost always has more control of the situation than anyone who first comes here realizes.
If this goes to a divorce, you aren't going to settle for just anyone in your next relationship. You might be surprised at just how well a family you can make AFTER a divorce.
Last God is a jerk. He seldom gives us what we want. But almost always what we need. : )
Hi CaliGuy.
I'm so sorry about your sitch. You are so strong.
Reconciliation will help unload a lot, and you are wise to continue your faith journey. Seek Him with all your heart. He wants you to be complete and whole in HIM. He loves you!
Do you have adoration at your church?
I know during this season of Advent it is an opportunity to know Him better. I would suggest that you go to adoration and just be there, be still and listen. Nothing to distract you and nothing to interfere with your time with our Lord. It can be 5 minutes or an hour. Feel His presence.
Know that He wants only the best for you and sometimes it isn't what we want or think is best for us. HIS plan is ALWAYS better.
Believe and stand on His promises for you.
Does your church have Jeff Cavins Bible Study? It is a Catholic Bible study on different parts of the Bible. Right now, our church is offering it and I love it. I did the Great Bible Timeline, Galatians, and now Revelation. It has really opened my eyes to my faith. I also went through RCIA many years ago but getting closer to our Lord and never letting go has helped me through some really tough times (like now :))
Proverbs 3: 5-6
Jeremiah 29:11
Psalm 27
Romans 8:28
Praying for you... Remember show your W and your S - Jesus. Be Jesus to them. Your S is especially watching how you are handling all of this and he loves both of you. Being like Jesus is not easy but so worth it. You are evangelizing. Keep it up my friend.
In His Love
VGE1
Romans 8:28
I can understand your fears, Cal.
The thing about them is that they are not under your control. No one knows what the future holds, so, it's best to live in the moment and not get ahead of yourself, right?
The great thing about reconciliation is that He forgives it all. You get to start anew. Pretty cool, yea?
I know you miss her, C. I know that's tough.
She is processing stuff. So, she heard you about not wanting a divorce, no need to say that again. My guess is that she didnt like you kind of calling her out about Saturday.
You are doing great, Cal. Really and truly.
I think I just wanted to get them .. out.. put down somewhere. Since I did put them down I can atleast start working on them and give them some thought. And yeah .. out of my control, I can not fix this alone, and the more I thought about it yesterday the more I realized its wasted energy.
Yeah I do sense (ha .. see that's like mind reading on a Jedi level!!) that she is working through things. There really seems to be a new softness to her as of late. Not that it means I can retire the spew jacket .. but simple things like yesterday I asked where to pick up S .. her reply was "My place is that ok?" ... this morning driving to her place to drop off S I received a TM "Drive safe its raining" ... and there was a softness about her eyes/look this morning ... little flashes of the old W I used to know.... and its better than "I hate you I wish you would die"
Cali,
OM generally tend to be band aids. The fact that your W seems to have broken up with him what? 3 or 4 times? I'd take that as a good sign.
She stays in touch with you, she shares stuff with you (No not the stuff you THINK you want to hear) but little things. She is involving you. Call it cake eating call it whatever the f you want too, I'd also take that as a good sign. Alot of spouses don't take this as a sign that this is an MLC. Cause she is confused.
As for your son if this goes to a divorce, and I really get the feeling that if you get a divorce its going to be because YOU ran out patience. You're going to find out that the LBS almost always has more control of the situation than anyone who first comes here realizes.
If this goes to a divorce, you aren't going to settle for just anyone in your next relationship. You might be surprised at just how well a family you can make AFTER a divorce.
Last God is a jerk. He seldom gives us what we want. But almost always what we need. : )
Yeah I suppose you are right ... I cringe at thinking about all the issues I would bring into a new relationship, with the W or with someone new. Not going to worry about that for now .. plate is full enough. 1 day at a time .. rinse/repeat.
God .. well He does seem to be fully inplace and working in my life, I have been much more aware as of late. My faith and trust has increased, W and my M are in his hands .. either way I have accepted what His will is going to deliver.
Hi CaliGuy.
I'm so sorry about your sitch. You are so strong.
Reconciliation will help unload a lot, and you are wise to continue your faith journey. Seek Him with all your heart. He wants you to be complete and whole in HIM. He loves you!
Do you have adoration at your church?
I know during this season of Advent it is an opportunity to know Him better. I would suggest that you go to adoration and just be there, be still and listen. Nothing to distract you and nothing to interfere with your time with our Lord. It can be 5 minutes or an hour. Feel His presence.
Know that He wants only the best for you and sometimes it isn't what we want or think is best for us. HIS plan is ALWAYS better.
Believe and stand on His promises for you.
Does your church have Jeff Cavins Bible Study? It is a Catholic Bible study on different parts of the Bible. Right now, our church is offering it and I love it. I did the Great Bible Timeline, Galatians, and now Revelation. It has really opened my eyes to my faith. I also went through RCIA many years ago but getting closer to our Lord and never letting go has helped me through some really tough times (like now :))
Proverbs 3: 5-6
Jeremiah 29:11
Psalm 27
Romans 8:28
Praying for you... Remember show your W and your S - Jesus. Be Jesus to them. Your S is especially watching how you are handling all of this and he loves both of you. Being like Jesus is not easy but so worth it. You are evangelizing. Keep it up my friend.
In His Love
VGE1
Romans 8:28
Thanks Vge
The Bible study thing they do have, but interfered with my RCIA nights. and then I have S 3 nights, DJ one ... so my time is limited, I am reading on my own and have found peace in The Word. I have come a long way, still have further to go ... regardless my life is forever changed and I am not going back to the old Cali, the old M ... ever.
Cali -
You are further along the path than me - don't look back (because we should not look back), but I am waving hello and sending you Happy Vibes.
Following along with you and your journey has given me the strength to keep going onwards my with mine - so thanks for sharing.
I am so happy that your w is giving you a softer time with her ATM. But don't let your guard down for a minute, not yet - sorry if it sounds negative, but this is a mistake I made and WHAM it slapped me big time. I don't want to see you hurt, you have come too far ......
I am in awe of you Cali, I am in awe of all the LBS who find a way through this to a happier place - with or without their s. I truly hope that whatever happens, you find your happy place :o) You deserve it ....repeat after me ... I deserve a happy life filled with love, laughter and peace.
Stay strong and carry on :o)
So ... just some thoughts/observations/babble
Something I have noticed and not mentioned. So I drop off S Mon and Fri mornings. The past 2-3 weeks we arrive and W is typically coocking/eating watching Netflix on the iPad, dressed for work and all that. When she picks up S after she has consistantly show up wearing different work clothes from what she had on that morning. Different skirt, same top ... or same slacks different top. Just something I have noticed and found odd.
So I picked up S from her place yesterday, Asked where I should get him from as she had him all day, she was very nice via TM, I arrive at her place and she had his uniform all set to go, she was in her "Not going out of the house" clothes. I told S we were going out to dinner ... invited W out of courtesy .. ya know .. when you know you will be turned down but just do it to be polite ... she declined said she had to write BIL and run errands. So S and I have dinner .. watch a movie ..he calls W and she answers .. she is at the mall Christmas shopping. S told me he and her bought me my gift at the Christian Bookstore B-day present was from here too .... I am finding this a bit odd ... every year for Christmas I typically just get socks. So he and her are talking ... my stinking thinking started in a bit wondering what she was buying OM for Christmas ... I caught myself and left to take a shower. Not going to waste my time/energy on that.
This morning driving in its raining hard ... we never get rain here ... so as my wipers are trying to keep up on the freeway W TM "Drive safe, its Raining" I actually laughed as I am out in the middle of it. So we arrive ... dripping wet, S runs in .. comes back for the bear hug .. and W looks at me, was a nice look, soft, crazy but its like I see the old her peek out at me now and then .. sure I am whacko-crazy but little non-verbal things like this do help me .... seems I need to see some little flicker of light/hope to stay the course and continue to do 'this'. I told her to drive safe "its raining out there" (I laughed on the inside at my own humor) ... and off I went.
This weekend I have S Saturday .. taking him to a movie .. just going to enjoy the weekend. Will most likely sneak into work Sunday, ride the bike, nothing super exciting.
Cali -
You are further along the path than me - don't look back (because we should not look back), but I am waving hello and sending you Happy Vibes.
Following along with you and your journey has given me the strength to keep going onwards my with mine - so thanks for sharing.
I am so happy that your w is giving you a softer time with her ATM. But don't let your guard down for a minute, not yet - sorry if it sounds negative, but this is a mistake I made and WHAM it slapped me big time. I don't want to see you hurt, you have come too far ......
I am in awe of you Cali, I am in awe of all the LBS who find a way through this to a happier place - with or without their s. I truly hope that whatever happens, you find your happy place :o) You deserve it ....repeat after me ... I deserve a happy life filled with love, laughter and peace.
Stay strong and carry on :o)
Thanks Lou
And no ... I am not gettign sucked into the "nice" ... thing is its just her being nice ... maybe its the Holidays, maybe she is avoiding conflict, maybe avoiding looking inward and doing any work .. I could maybe all day. Truth is .. nothing has changed, she still does not want me or our M so I will keep the focus on me and what I can control and do.
Hey C. Jedi level mindreading, huh? LOL!
You sound good. I get wanting to get the fears down.
Did I tell you that I letterd in fear? I got an "A" in it. I allowed it to control all my actions. It kept me stuck a good long while. I had it about a lot of things. Fear of the future, fear of failing, fear of succeeding, fear of being alone.
Still have it sometimes. That's the truth. But what I have usually found is that what I feared most...never came to fruition.
You will be ok, C. I think you know that. Life isnt always what we expect, but, that doesnt mean we cant find the joy in it.
Keep going, Cal. You are getting to the good parts.
uR
HEck yeah .. I have the light-saber and everything ... "These are not the LBS's you're looking for"
I get the fear thing ... I was scared of leaving a job I had of 17 years to start new, terrified .. but more scared of what I would end up like if I stayed there ... so I jumped. It was one of the best things I could have ever done, I wish I would have had done it 5 years sooner honestly.
I think we all will have our own fears here and there ... its what keeps us from running around with wreckless abandon, the fears I listed do not paralyze me, I own them, I am afraid of losing W completely but ... at the end of the day all I can do is look myself in the mirror and know I did everything I could. I feel I have and am ... is it textbook perfect .. no. But my heart is in the right place, I own my part. That's all I can do.
Yeah I know I will be ok, each day stronger .. better .. set back here and there .. but I am better off now than I was 4 months ago that's for certain. Time will tell what my story will end up being.
Cali you are sounding good! Just sending support and saying hello. I don't have much to add as you are rocking this!
Thank you daring
Just babbling a bit here. Yesterday I woke up ... just kinda laid there in bed for a bit. Caught myself going to the dark place, feeling sorry for myself ... ya no that spot .. its in the bad part of town. So I got myself up, took a shower and decided to run a few errands before W dropped off S. So .... is started with me buying one of those shoe racks that fits in the closet, bought a few more things ... came home and ripped my room to shreads ... organized my closet, my dresser ... tossed out olt clothes, put aside shirts that needed to be dry cleaned ... even went through and organized all my socks... washed everything ... took a few hours but I was happy with it , feeling like I am cleaning the old crap out .. just as I am trying to do with myself. W dropped S off in the middle of all this .. she was upbeat and a talking a bit ... did not seem to be feeling guilty or anything ... which could mean two things .. she went solo .. or she has just decided OM is who she wants and thats the life she has chosen. Either way I did not spend much time dwelling on it ... I must be making progress because there was a time not long ago this would have driven me crazy.
Had a nice night with S, woke up early this morning and made him Strawberry Pancakes then we went to church. I let W know what we were doing she ended up picking S up from church so they could go to the birthday party. I stopped off at the store on the way home, watched the Chargers stink it up ... and here I am.
I need to work on the GAL a bit ... Holidays are here, seems I have some idle time that is leaving me to myself alot lately and this is the time I start wrestling with my thoughts about my sitch, sad/mad/confused .. .add in the rest of all the emotions ... this is not living. I have football and softball lined up but its still a month away from starting. Its the lonliness, so I will continue doing what I have ... getting out and GAL ... things will change for the better, they already have been .... keep pluggin
Attaboy, Luke (yea, thats my new nickname for you - LOL), for not spinning over whether she went with him or not. Thats a big, big step for you.
And those feelings are going to come back around sometimes. As long as you dont live there, right?
The loneliness is hard. It wont always be like this.
You keep going, Luke. I am liking what Im seeing.
Cali,
You organized the socks so I'm assuming all socks had a match ( which I find beyond impressive
. I'm just tossing it out there that for some reason, I loathe Phillip Rivers. I digress.
The holidays are difficult. You are correct- you will get through so keep plugging along. Laugh whenever you get the chance. It really is the best medicine.
Keep up the good work!
I really, really understand Cali. I went to that sad place today too. But I didn't stay as long as I used to. And I didn't feel " destroyed" like I used to, just sad. I guess that's progress.
We are getting there- this time of year definitely is hard. Last year I think I was still in " I can change everything to be so great and fix myself he will come back" mode for the Holidays. This year is more realistic, but also taking better care of me. You too Cali- I see you trying to take care of you. Keep it up!!
Attaboy, Luke (yea, thats my new nickname for you - LOL), for not spinning over whether she went with him or not. Thats a big, big step for you.
And those feelings are going to come back around sometimes. As long as you dont live there, right?
The loneliness is hard. It wont always be like this.
You keep going, Luke. I am liking what Im seeing.
Well atleast I am not Han Solo .. .emphasis on Solo.
Yeah, I accept them for what they are, and its less and less each time ... I do wonder if/when there comes a time when I decide to just not feel any longer. I feel a bit numb at the moment ..... not a feeling I would really like. Thankfully work has been busy and I have not had much time to sit and read sitch's ... read up whatever I can find on the MLC beast ... I did read something last week that did help me put OM in perspective. Probably what kept me out of the spin.
Cali,
You organized the socks so I'm assuming all socks had a match ( which I find beyond impressive
. I'm just tossing it out there that for some reason, I loathe Phillip Rivers. I digress.
The holidays are difficult. You are correct- you will get through so keep plugging along. Laugh whenever you get the chance. It really is the best medicine.
Keep up the good work!
Yes, all the socks had a non-MLC mate, you can tell the MLC sock by the appearance, its all worn out and has holes, while the non-MLC sock is partially unraveling.
Rivers is the chit ... don't hate!!
I really, really understand Cali. I went to that sad place today too. But I didn't stay as long as I used to. And I didn't feel " destroyed" like I used to, just sad. I guess that's progress.
We are getting there- this time of year definitely is hard. Last year I think I was still in " I can change everything to be so great and fix myself he will come back" mode for the Holidays. This year is more realistic, but also taking better care of me. You too Cali- I see you trying to take care of you. Keep it up!!
Yeah I guess I have to allow myself a sad moment here and there, I just will not do it with S around, nor let it sit in for very long ... when I notice it coming on I get my gear and take the Harley out for a ride ... its very hard to be depressed while riding, I have tried and yet to accomplish it.
The sock analogy gave me a good laugh! Your sense of humor is awesome.
Getting out definitely helps when sad. Boot camp does wonders for me when I'm down. Glad you have the Harley.
So ... little update .. nothing seems to be moving as far as I can see, but who knows what is going on under the surface.
Yesterday I picked up S, we went to the mall, just window shopped and I took notes on what he was checking out .. ya know .. for Santa. Afterwards ... I decided since I will not have him until Sunday night ... he and I would go out to dinner. Went to one of his favorite places where he can eat all the fortune cookies he wants. (Ironically mine said "Remember 3 months from this date. Good things are in store for you" ... we will see Mr Fortune Teller man .. we will see. The waitress was cute, flirting with S ... was a nice evening. Arrived home and S called W, she was crying ... not sure why, after she asked to speak with me and was asking if I received a letter from BIL3 (in prison) ... I told her I had not, so I figure that may be why, or maybe she just had a bad day .. hard telling.
She TM at 4:30 in the morning about S Christmas gifts ... not sure why .. I seem the TM when I woke but did not respond. Dropped S off this morning, she was not looking good, stressed from what I could tell .. asked me if I got her TM I told her I did and I already have some things I will get S, told them both to have a good day and off I went.
Things have been very quiet, I am going down tonight to check out a venue where I am DJ'ing a Christmas party I picked up for Thursday (W is taking S up north to her HS Christmas Caroling thing) Wednesday night is S Christmas Program. Friday night work .. so busy week ... GAL'ing like a Boss .. pffft...lol
Internally .. I have been at peace, just a touch somber with the Holidays, hard not to feel like she picked someone else over me and our family .. but .. her choice and nothing I can do about it. Not going to let Hurt little boy out, nor do I have that urge ... but I have found the past few times I have seen her I have not been PMA, ... I have not been down .. just indifferent. Holidays I suspect, half way expecting her to push D on the New Year, so she can move on, out of my control of course, who knows what the future holds... time will tell.
Indifferent or just more detached, Cali?
I would say the latter, but that's me.
Nice to score a gig on Christmas this late in the year. Good to have some extra cash right?
AJ
Indifferent or just more detached, Cali?
I would say the latter, but that's me.
Nice to score a gig on Christmas this late in the year. Good to have some extra cash right?
AJ
Maybe it is detached ... I $ucked at it so bad I just refuse to admit I may have pulled it off here and there....lol
Yeah .. God is Good, out of nowhere honestly, old friends who I have done some gigs for years ago called. And as fate would have it .. I typically have S that night and would not have taken the gig .. W wanted to take him north so I am open. We did not even talk money, I know they will take care of me. I also landed a good paying New Years gig so with those two I plan on paying off my 2 pending bills (Best Buy ... darn those gadgets ... and the nice Bedroom set I bought when I moved)
New ears focus for me will be my own place, trick is the 90lb bundle of love that goes with me (Dog) the other 90lb bundle will have his own room. That's my goal for the next year anyways....baby steps.
Well ... just had a TM exchange ... seems she was looking for a fight a bit but I was not going to feed.
W: Hey sorry for last minute. Are you able to keep S tonight. I'm slammed at work and need to work late.
M: No I can't I have plans
W:Where can i pickup (ok this has always been at my place, I have not moved in a year!) Then I need you to take him Friday (Again .. I have worked every Friday night for 10 years)
W: I don't understand why you can't accomodate
M: I work Friday Night. I would have been able to take him but I already made plans
W: I've been in meetings all day that's why I said sorry
M: I can just take him with me it's fine. I will take him tonight.
W: I've been more than accommodating for 7 years 3 nights/week (refering to my DJ'ing job) Asking for a favor because I have to work late is minimal.
W I have'nt eaten yet.
M: I said I would take him.
W: Plus the next 2 weeks taking him while you don't take him at all (Ummmm this one is new to me .. but I let it go)
W:I don't think you realize the sacrifice I've made for your working 7 years. (Wow .. I was the one working till 2-3 in the morning .. but now its her sacrifice .. ughhh MLC ... I do not like you somedays)
M: I can not do anything about the past, I will take him tonight.
W: Yeah you can, you can stop being difficult.
W: Where are you taking him
M:I was not being difficult, I'm sorry if I did something to make you feel that way. I have a few things to do but he can go with me its fine.
W: Your answers are short and when it comes to our son its like I have to pass Ft. Knox
W: Where are you taking him if its out in the rain.
So .... guessing my dark/NC is starting to wear a bit ... I am not answering the last TM, I will take S but I am not going to answer to where/when/who .... I just have to check out this venue for the Thursday gig to look at the hookups and where I will set up so I can bring the proper gear. in and out .. its a restaurant so no big deal. Actually works as I can pick up S and go straight down vs back to my place .. wait for her .. then go all the way downtown ... not a biggie. I caught myself wanting to rip her a bit .. but didn't, would not do any good.
Cali,
Reading that text exchange caused me to roll my eyes. I realize that isn't very DB of me although I've been privvy to exchanges like the one above. Yes, I do think she tried to bait you and that was a nice redirect with the not being able to change the past (totally true). Keep the short , cordial and to the point.
Enjoy s!
Thanks GB .. yeah I kinda rolled my eyes as I read it
So .. dropped off S this morning, she made small talk asking how I was ... came in and gave me a hug. Apologized for snapping yesterday, told me about her job some .. how they changed the dress code a bit ... yanno .. important stuff ... I commented on what she was wearing and told her she looked cute, she had jeans, uggs, a sweater vest and a scarf. So I wish her a good day and I leave.
Ok .. so on my way to work I start thinking .. I know this may sound silly .. today she has a scarf on .. yesterday she was wearing a hoodie ... Sunday a sweater with a scarf .. is she hiding a hickie? Yeah .. that's what I was thinking .. and I am sitting here with a "shaking my head grin" ... who knows ... I mean MLC and the teen age years I suppose.
Anyways .. S Christmas Program tonight, looking forward to that
Luke,
Good job not taking the bait!
Keep working on that not speculating too much (hickies, scarves, hoodies, water buffaloes, etc). I was the worst speculator, and I regret wasting all that time and brain/emotion power on it, and not using it for myself and my kids.
Keep going....
I dunno she coulda grown gills, I'd hide that crap too.
The monsters in your head, are always bigger than the real ones.
Cali congrats on the extra gig!
I think you did great not taking the bait! And she applogized too- at least she's seeing when she's being a biyatch.
So as J3B says- the monsters are way worse than reality. Remember when I was convinced my H was going to boink the yoga teacher and that's why he was doing home yoga? Well thus far every session he's had has included D13. ( yoga I mean, not anything else
)
Well, lookey at you, Luke. Nicely done, my friend.
And yea, the hickey thing..dont go there. I thought my xh was doing all these things with his ow...and I was wrong about most of them.
Either way...not your problem if she is going to act like a teenager. Stay the heck away from that.
Oh and I can vouch for my friend T2's spectator habit...just saying..;)
Thank you everyone for your kind words ... I am trying to stay busy and focus on work .. keeping my mind off her and my sitch. Works for some time .. then I start day dreaming again.
So W is picking up S from school today so they can go get ready for the Christmas Program tonight. Everything has been dark all day ... for the most part I have remained busy. I was messing around on my phone looking at FB ... .and plugged in her name .. she actually posted a couple things recently ... a B day party she took S to , and a picture from her Christmas party .. she looked really good, was a group shot with her .. several other gals and a guy (She has told me about him before ... not a OM, gay ... lol)Buuuut ... yeah OM did "like" the pic ... nothing I can do about that but admittedly it still brings out some emotion in me .. not a ton .. but yeah ... a little.
So then .. W calls me a few minutes ago .. I was out in the back and seen the missed call and VM ... the second time this has happened in the past few weeks and it bugs me. The VM are sooo ... what .. buisness like. I used to get ... "Hey its me .. blah bla bla" ... even when she was upset it was that way. Now its "Hello Cali this is ________ I just wanted to know ......" Like I am a co-worker or something .... yes .. my issue and one I need to get over, seems the Holidays have me a little more sensitive than usual, I have not rocked the boat nor said anything to her, but .... yeah ... the little things are bugging me lately.
I was out on my walk thinking how its not fair ... she is living her life, made choices that effect everyone else and she gets to do her thing without consequence. I do wonder how long this will last, and if I can out last her crisis. I have been reading up on it a bit ... realized I need to step back and just do my thing, the things I am comfortable doing .. I hold myself accountable for my actions .. not hers .. I can not do anything about that.
ok ... end of rant.
Hey Luke...feel better now?
Ok, so, looking at her FB...what did that accomplish and how did it serve you? Yea..so stop that, yea?
The feelings come back around to bite you when you least expect it, right?
Yea, life isnt always fair. Not so sure about the no consequences for her. I mean, would you want to walk around with all that cray cray swirling up in your head? I sure as heck wouldnt.
You know, it really is best not to think about how long and if you can outlast it. That is just mind defeating.
You just live your life. Become your best you. If one day she turns towards you, then you make a decision of what is best for you from a place of strength.
The goal is to accept what is at this moment. Doesnt mean you have to like it.
I know this stuff hurts, Luke. You will not always feel as you do now. Life is always changing....
Hey Luke...feel better now?
Yeah actually I do ... These emotions I hold in and no one else gets to hear them but you fine lucky peeps! Speaking of which .. so yesterday in traffic S and I are talking and he asks something about W ... I was about to give him a little truth dart ... just then the phone rings, Child services looking to speak with some dude ... I tell them they have the wrong number ... realized God just stepped in to tell me to STFU and I did ... lol
Ok, so, looking at her FB...what did that accomplish and how did it serve you? Yea..so stop that, yea?
It did not accomplish anything but make me realize OM is still lingering around. *shrug* you are right ... it was more out of curiosity (see how I renamed snooping there?> :D)
The feelings come back around to bite you when you least expect it, right?
Yea, life isnt always fair. Not so sure about the no consequences for her. I mean, would you want to walk around with all that cray cray swirling up in your head? I sure as heck wouldnt.
Very true ... and it does appear she has gone through the nest egg she had when she moved out ... not sure if I shared this but upon BD and me getting my finances in order I discovered a hidden account at the bank, had a good chunk of change in there ... confronted her about it back then and she denied .. I let it go, only because I figured this would last a month or two ... bwahahah.... anyways she made a comment this morning about not running the heater due to $$ ... and the call was to make sure I was putting in $$ .... yesterday she told me she could not afford to take S to the adventure park. So it does seem the $$$ is becoming an issue for her.
You know, it really is best not to think about how long and if you can outlast it. That is just mind defeating.
Point taken ... yeah I spun at the 1 year anniversary, I know you are right on this ... well you are right on everything so far .. but its this one I am officially going to admit to ;P
You just live your life. Become your best you. If one day she turns towards you, then you make a decision of what is best for you from a place of strength.
The goal is to accept what is at this moment. Doesnt mean you have to like it.
I know this stuff hurts, Luke. You will not always feel as you do now. Life is always changing....
Oh boy, Luke, did God step in. I promise you that you do not want to say anything about your w to your son. She is his mama. Once you say something like that, you cant take it back. I know how much you love your boy.
My son was 16 when this started. Trust me when I tell you that his dad did some horrific things...things with the sole purpose of destroying me. Bigger than just his affair.
I promised myself I would not say one bad thing about his dad, ever. I would not lie, mind you, if asked directly and specifically about anything, but, not a word or a look..ever.
My son has thanked me often for that. That he was allowed to forge whatever relationship he wanted by making his own choice about who his father was.
Yea, and nice try on the renaming there...but, um...no. Truthfully, you have no idea about the OM. Just because he is commenting doesnt mean a thing.
The money thing...not a big surprise there. Many of them do that. They dont figure this all out in their crazy head. Reality comes to bite them. Too bad, so sad, not your problemo.
You sweet talker you..saying Im right. Be quiet, Mach, T2 and Eric. Let me enjoy this for a moment. LOL!
This time of year is tough. But, you are tougher. What with your light saber and all.
You are doing great. Really and truly.
This was a journey you were meant to go on.
This was a journey you were meant to go on.
Ain't that the truth, sister!
Dude. Facebook? Gills? La vida loca to be sure.
The feelings you are feeling? Normal. In fact, you're doing better than that. I think it's starting to sink in that you only control you. Her actions are hers. Yours are yours.
Being worried that you may at some point feel nothing? Valid. Very valid.
Her acting and dressing like a teen? Totally par for the course, amigo.
I could tell you stories... But they would be a lot like the other stories here. The names are different, but the actions are the same. Why? People are people.
She hasn't developed the tools. You are well on your way to doing so. Your plans for next year? Awesome!
And I can't emphasize enough how you need to be very careful what you say around your son. He's watching. Constantly.
Proud of you, Cali. I know it's not easy, but you're surfing with the best of them. And you've learned to handle things you never thought possible, with grace and dignity. As a suggestion, you don't need to keep apologizing. She seems to have wanted to be heard, but that's about it. I know the temptation is strong to correct things when she says accusatory things - it is for a reason. Be wise when you respond else STFU and just listen. It serves you well
Now, since you're on this path for a reason, what are you getting out of it? I see lots of positives and things to be thankful for, but curious what you see.
AJ
Facebook is like a running blender.
You don't look at her facebook in the same way you don't stick your hand into a running blender.
Well Jack I would never stick my hand into a running blender, that's stupid.
So is looking at her facebook.
Oh boy, Luke, did God step in. I promise you that you do not want to say anything about your w to your son. She is his mama. Once you say something like that, you cant take it back. I know how much you love your boy.
Yeah, this is an area I have a "Needs Improvement" checked on my report card. Not that I have bad mouthed her ... but I feel I could have done better with the "Your mother and I both love you" statements. And laid off the "I really missed you" thype comments in my pre-DB era ... he knows I missed him but I was guilty of laying it on thick My son was 16 when this started. Trust me when I tell you that his dad did some horrific things...things with the sole purpose of destroying me. Bigger than just his affair.
I promised myself I would not say one bad thing about his dad, ever. I would not lie, mind you, if asked directly and specifically about anything, but, not a word or a look..ever.
My son has thanked me often for that. That he was allowed to forge whatever relationship he wanted by making his own choice about who his father was.
I have been very good the past few months doing this .. not saying a word, the relationship between W and S is not always good with her emotions all over the place he does not trust her ... this has been getting better as of late which I am thankful for ... she is his mother and always will be. Yea, and nice try on the renaming there...but, um...no. Truthfully, you have no idea about the OM. Just because he is commenting doesnt mean a thing.
I realize that ... and I think I have built this guy up into this magical being who stole my wife ... the past month or so I have been putting that notion to rest .. he is not worth my energy .. anyone who actively would be with a married woman and help destroy a family has his own issues to deal with, these too are not mine to carry. The money thing...not a big surprise there. Many of them do that. They dont figure this all out in their crazy head. Reality comes to bite them. Too bad, so sad, not your problemo.
Yeah I am not shocked either... S even made a comment on how she spends alot on "junk" Very observant that one is ... then again I do not spend $$ on hardly anything .... so I am sure its a big difference between her and I in his eyes. I make food, she goes out ... kinda thing. You sweet talker you..saying Im right. Be quiet, Mach, T2 and Eric. Let me enjoy this for a moment. LOL!
This time of year is tough. But, you are tougher. What with your light saber and all.
You are doing great. Really and truly.
This was a journey you were meant to go on.
"This was a journey you were meant to go on."
Ya know .. I agree with this wholeheartedly ... however months ago I was convinced it was punishment for all I have done. Now I have realized ... no way would I have made this journey without losing it all. I have accepted the challenge, I now am in control and command of my life, living it on my terms. This lesson seemed to slowly make its way into my heart but once I embraced it ... calming-peace. The only peace that can come from really letting God take it, knowing He has a plan for me regardless if I can see what it is or not.
This was a journey you were meant to go on.
Ain't that the truth, sister!
Dude. Facebook? Gills? La vida loca to be sure.
Yeah ... I know ... nothing but bad can come of it ... its like looking at a car wreck on the freeway .. you know there is nothing there but a crash .. you slow and look anyways ..... not sure what prompted me to look but I did, not spinning about it ... it is what it is. The feelings you are feeling? Normal. In fact, you're doing better than that. I think it's starting to sink in that you only control you. Her actions are hers. Yours are yours.
Being worried that you may at some point feel nothing? Valid. Very valid.
I think there is some of that, maybe a touch of remorse that my W and M are dead ... remorse mixed with relief ... in a way there is a silver lining, no more being miserable and walking on eggshells like I had been doing for a few years even before BD. Her acting and dressing like a teen? Totally par for the course, amigo.
I could tell you stories... But they would be a lot like the other stories here. The names are different, but the actions are the same. Why? People are people.
She hasn't developed the tools. You are well on your way to doing so. Your plans for next year? Awesome!
And I can't emphasize enough how you need to be very careful what you say around your son. He's watching. Constantly.
Proud of you, Cali. I know it's not easy, but you're surfing with the best of them. And you've learned to handle things you never thought possible, with grace and dignity. As a suggestion, you don't need to keep apologizing. She seems to have wanted to be heard, but that's about it. I know the temptation is strong to correct things when she says accusatory things - it is for a reason. Be wise when you respond else STFU and just listen. It serves you well
Now, since you're on this path for a reason, what are you getting out of it? I see lots of positives and things to be thankful for, but curious what you see. AJ
Yeah ... this .. I highlighted because it really struck a chord .. I read it yesterday via phone and as I turned it off I thought and smiled.
Like I touched on previously .. there are certain things I would not have done ... I know I would not have grown .. not to this level this fast. I am just going to list out the good things that have come out of this crisis.
* My R with my son, there was always a bond, but getting my time cut with him made me appreciate him so much more. We always had fun .. but now ... its amazing ... I can not wait to see him, and seems he is just as excited to see me. We talk on the way home about nothing and everything .. he shares things with me he tells no one.... crushes, fart titles, books he wants to read, just totally open and honest relationship .. he feels safe with me, hugs out of no where that warm my soul.
* My Spiritual Journey. .... not sure but maybe someone out there reads my story .... there is no magic bullet in MLC, however, for me I found one in God. She has to do her thing and who knows where she ends up.... God has been so involved in my life this past year, and the better I get, cutting out the clutter and noise ... the louder he has been and I know in my heart this had to happen, and I am going in the right direction. Its not lip service ... I know this for a fact. I will be a far cry from the person I was in 2013 when this all blew up. I am excited for the opportunity at a new life and becoming a new man.
* My finances ... she handled it all ... I took charge of my own stuff .. took a bit to figure it all out, but I am just about finished paying off the bedroom set and my Best Buy account ... then the focus turns to a new place, just me, my boy , and a Dog named Tom ... that's my family at the moment and who I am looking to take care of.
* Self worth .... this could also be the self esteem. I think one hurdle in all this .. for me, I was cocky ... W has said it many times ... and she was right. I DJ'd 3 nights a week and started believing people who told me how awesome I was ... then BD .. W ... OM .. all this popped my ego very rapidly. I focused on OM and W... for a long time, then the mirror started reflecting a person I did not love, if I can not love me .. who can? I worked on that guy ... kept at it ... if I seen something I did not like, I worked on removing it ... and am still doing this ... do not suspect I will be done for a long time. I like who I am creating .... if W or others do not like the new version that's ok ... I have to sleep with me every night.
Currently I am in a good place ... at peace, finding patience and realizing I have a long way to go before I am open to anything more on my plate ... I was a pile of spaghetti that needed to be straightened out. I am using this time on me, it is truly a gift. I still currently want my M and am waiting on my W to make her journey .... but there is not an expectation things will work out ... at the moment its just faith and hope, faith that God will deliver me far from this mess ... hope W will one day be my W again... time will tell.
Facebook is like a running blender.
You don't look at her facebook in the same way you don't stick your hand into a running blender.
Well Jack I would never stick my hand into a running blender, that's stupid.
So is looking at her facebook.
This made me laugh ... and just FYI its hard to time with your fingers all bloody and bandaged
So ... update time.
Last night was S Christmas Program. I had some errands to run prior and was out doing my things W TM she was on her way ... wow .. way early .. I told her I was going to go home .. get ready and meet her there.
So I arrive we meet up and she picks a spot so she can go all paparazzi ... and yeah .. she is wearing another scarf. I just kind of shrugged it off, but images of hickies were in my head .. I chose to just let it go .. kind of laughed about it, knowing if I left one she would have been so pissed at me having to hide it all day at work. So .... church fills up and it gets kinda warm, I take off my coat .. W is clicking pics at an alarming rate, but leans back into me and shows me a few ... talking .. being pretty cordial. Telling me about work .. how all her co-workers were upset she left early and missed the gift exchange, missing happy hour ... ya know .. the MLC fun activities .. but she has her son and can not do these things. I just STFU and listened. She starts complaing she is getting a headache .. I ask if she is hot wearing all that stuff ... she takes her coat off ... AND THE SCARF ... yup ... nothing ... lmao ... I kill me .. so stupid right ?? (ok sh-up)
So ... we are talking .. its nice .. talking about the previous years, chatted a bit about the woman who passed and has 3 poor children in the program, so sad .. got a little misty eyed .. as did she. Then our S class is coming on stage ... ok ... W is a Photo nut .. S hates this ... he is walking on stage here comes him mom .. no cares/shame .. little dude rolls his eyes and is visibly not happy. He spots me in the crowd and I find the humor in his embarrassment and make a face, he cracks a tiny smirk .. the class starts singing .. now its a challenge .. more faces at him .. he is laughing and singing .. I keep at it . .we both now have the giggles. It was like no one was in that pack church but he and I at that moment ... then W stands up and looks back at me .... huge smile .. turns and keeps snapping pics. She returns and said she did not know why he was laughing until she looked at me .. thanked me for doing that and then showed me all the pics she took, she was happy, he was happy .. I was just thinking what a cool moment between S and I. She thanked me for doing that ... I actually thought she was going to be mad at me for messing around .. but didn't really care honestly .. that moment was between S and I.
So this morning W TM me asking me if I had some pants for S, then asking how I am feeling .. headache and such (Had one last night) I reply in kind .. leave it at that. Later she calls me ... asking if I got her VM about $$ ... I said yes, told her I could transfer the amount she stated .. however 1/2 of that was not required due to S not having school for the last 2 weeks. This caught her off guard .. I calmly told her I would go ahead and transfer it so she was not short, but keep in mind the balance will be removed next month.
Then she brought up Christmas, asked what I wanted to do, said she knew I wanted separate and she respected that (I swear it was like she is DBing me) ... she wanted to do mass on the 24th I told her I would be open to doing that, she asked if all 3 of us could do that ... I told her I would be happy to, then she can take S that night .. I would come get him the next day and he and I could exchange. According to my PMS chart .. that hurricane should hit land just perfectly during the Holidays ...knowledge is power as far as I am concerned. So this will be hard on her I am sure ... again .. not my issue, I do not want this .. but for me .. I am not going to spend it at her place and fake it. I plan on taking S to a few places, make some new memories .. and enjoy the time off with him.
Just an observation .. the exchanges between W and I have been much better, not sure if its her just not hating me as much anymore ... or if its me detached not letting things get me spinning and lashing out. I do see her struggling more lately ... seems sadness has been close by her, her BIL, Holidays .. who knows .. just an observation ... I do hope she has started looking inward and will realize she needs to do some work there.
Hi CaliGuy.
Keep your eyes on the prize - Heaven.
Now, your R with God and with your S is all that matters. She can come along if she wants to, and if you are willing to accept her. But not the MLC her but a new a better W than before.
I go through those times of would I want him back - the way he is now - NO! I want a better one. A better DH that has had time to explore his journey and has learned how to be a better person, father, and husband. This is the time I am doing the same.
I am looking at me. Who am I? What's my purpose? Would he come back to the old me - probably not? The new me? Maybe. Who knows?
I pray for you and your family. This is a tough journey but this refining will result in GOLD!!
Stay strong! Keep the Faith! BTW - have you gone to adoration yet?
In His Love
VGE1
Romans 8:28
Ok, Luke, you dont know me well yet, but, I have kind of a warped sense of humor at times. So when you wrote, "Images of hickies were in my head." My mind went to the Night Before Christmas.
The spouse was nestled all snug in his bed,
While visions of hickies danced in his head;
With her in her scarf, and he in his cap,
He waited to see what was under the wrap.
She took off the scarf and he closed his eyes
Fearing the marks of some other guys
But to his surprise, his thoughts were not right
That will teach him to let his imagination take flight.
Yea, I told you...warped. Dont judge. LOL!
Cali I love the story about making faces with your S during his program. That's totally something my H would do. Since I'm floridly ticked off at him right now it was nice to imagine the fun, happy H and our kids and their good relationship.
And uR that poem is awesome!!
UR, I cannot stop laughing at that! Very good
anyone who actively would be with a married woman and help destroy a family has his own issues to deal with, these too are not mine to carry.
So find a way to put that to bed. You are spot on, but you have yet to internalize it. To embrace what you said. Fully.
Right?
I could have written what you wrote there. I could have also written what you wrote about what you gained out of all of this. Believe me when I tell you, what you have gained is golden. She may have meant it for bad, but you really made lemonade out of this. Even if you haven't fully embraced the part where you want more.
the exchanges between W and I have been much better, not sure if its her just not hating me as much anymore ... or if its me detached not letting things get me spinning and lashing out.
Personally, I can tell you that exchanges between my ex and I improved when I improved. We're at a place where we don't talk, but that's an improvement to say the least. In your case, it's different. That's a good thing, Cali.
Here's a thought. What is it you want for her? I now what you want for you, but what do you want for her?
AJ
P.S. As for the PMS thing? Don't try to guess or otherwise predict what the future will be like. Instead, take it as it comes. If you set your expectations at zero, without knowledge "why" they might be that way, you'll be much more free to move about the cabin. Happiness lies in between those expectations and reality, Cali. If you have no expectations, only happiness can remain (seems Zen, but it's in many religions, Christianity included IMHO if you count giving it to God and not expecting changes from W.)
I ask if she is hot wearing all that stuff ... she takes her coat off ... AND THE SCARF ... yup ... nothing ... lmao ... I kill me .. so stupid right ?? (ok sh-up)
You kill me, too! I laughed and laughed.
See how this mind reading stuff works? ha!
Doesn't it just kill you when you find out that maybe they aren't having as much fun as we imagine!
Caliguy, just checking in with you... I think we must be in the same area but no need to say any more than that... it's a big place! DB is like AA... anonymous!
Good fun on the Christmas pageant giggle yuckles... creating joy right now is so important. I think you're doing a great job. I saw hickies under every collar, too. That's normal, good to know they weren't there, though!