Prior Thread Part V -
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2510283&page=1MLC W Dates Lotsa Men Part IV -
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2500323#Post2500323MLC W Seeing Other Men, Part 3 -
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2481792#Post2481792(The first post here gives a summary of my situation.)
MLC Seeing Other Men, Part 2 -
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2468975&page=1---
Quick update, I am recovering from surgery on my neck/spine. I live with my d20, and I have my s13 on weekends.
W left me and took our youngest 3 children on June 15, 2013 when our house of 20 years was foreclosed upon - this was my fault, I was responsible for the mortgage payments.
Early in 2014 while we were separated W decided to join dating websites, and started dating lotsa younger guys. I let her know that "you will not be married to me, and date other men", and gave her divorce papers to end our marriage. She would not sign, and instead we agreed to a "trial divorce" for 3 months (April 2014 thru June 2014).
Recently W has made known she is seeing at least 1 special OM, and has indicated she will shortly see her own divorce attorney to start/finish the divorce process. But nothing is seen.
The end is here? This morning my W called me. The only purpose was to see when I would prepare (I'm a lawyer) the final divorce agreement. I told her I was not ready for the divorce yet.
I asked her what was going on that we needed to get this done now (besides being separated for over 17 months, and having little contact together.) W explained she needed the D so that she could get on assistance, and just start her life over again. I understood. W started breaking down and crying.
There are financial issues that we still do not agree on. I offered to get a life insurance policy on my life for her and the kid's benefit. That was not good enough. I said let's think about this some more and talk tomorrow.
While I have been on the board, it was to stand for my marriage by working on me - and it's been a help. But I'm tired of the battle now. I think (again) it is time to see if we can agree on the financial issues, and if so, sign an agreement. There is no chance of reconciliation, and she gives me no signs of hope. I think I am ready to finish this up.
Isn't she going to have to try to be finding an actual job in order to qualify for assistance? I didn't think they they just handed money over without proof of being turned down for jobs.
I know you don't want her to become something that wasn't "her" but this is what she wanted. She may actually have to get a job...Yikes!! I don't know who is giving her advice but it doesn't seem to be coming from someone who knows the ins and outs of this stuff. Ok, really not your problem, just a point that flashed up to me.
Tom, I wouldn't do this until you were sure, no doubts. You have to let go, fully and see where you are. I would still try to get your younger kids with you as she doesn't seem to be responsible for them on her own. give it some thought.
kat
Thanks Kat, you are great. I just feel soooo tired, and she is pushing hard now, and I don't feel strong enough to fight her. And as shown by her being out Sunday night with other guys and getting drunk, her road still looks to be a long one. And I'm still dealing with this judgmental thing. Who knows, maybe this financial dispute will slow things down (she really wants part of my parent's estate, which I am not budging on.)
B/c she has the kids, I'm sure she can get some assistance, like food stamps. But you are right that this is her thing to deal with. And I'm just not in the financial position right now to get a larger place, so we are stuck.
Tired? Of?
If you were to step back and give advice to yourself, what would you say, Wet? If you really were objective about it and put on your Lawyer hat? Best-friend hat? Father-hat?
Would those answers line up?
AJ
I get that you are emotionally battered. I know that I was too. I tried everything to make it work and up until I wasn't married, I was.
WAS's don't see it that way. they were done even before they told you. They seem to feel like we are holding them hostage somehow in a relationship that they no longer want. Remember though, they aren't looking at themselves and their issues, they are just wanting to feel better and well since they were with you and you couldn't make the pain go away, you must be part of the problem.
You have to remember that most of us here advising you have had a few good years of introspection. I was a mess when I was in it and all I can say is thank my lucky stars that I was able to get myself and my kids through it. I give my kids credit too and thankfully none of them blame themselves for their Dad's choices.
I hope before you do anything, ask yourself if you have tried everything within reason. You want to be able to hold your head up high knowing that you stood up for your marriage and have fought hard for it. It is important for you and your kids.
For what it is worth, I wouldn't budge on your parents possible future inheritance to you either. You don't have a clue what may happen to them in the future and besides it is their money. They may say you don't get anything if she is going to get x amount.
kat
I agree with kat. It takes time until they realize you weren't the reason for their pain if ever. Decisions are only rational to them while the rest of the world shakes their had. But don't forget there is always friends or family that will support bad decisions even to the detriment of children.
Be kind and show God's grace in everything you do and you'll be better off no matter what
It takes time until they realize you weren't the reason for their pain if ever. Decisions are only rational to them while the rest of the world shakes their had. But don't forget there is always friends or family that will support bad decisions even to the detriment of children.
Do you have a thread now Whytry ?
I really hate to tie up wets thread for my response to you. And I apologize in advance for doing that. I went back and read your stuff here, and I looked up your spouses stuff too. Now, are you speaking about your friends and family that supported your bad decisions when you were threatening to divorce her ? Or her bad choices for having enough of your affairs, and blaming her for them, while ranting and raving in front of the children about how your anger and pain was her fault ?
If you want to support wet, then maybe you could just support him, instead of interjecting tidbits of untruthful statements. And maybe you could start a thread and actually work through your problems too. Everyone here deserves support, all that we ever ask, is for honesty.
I am sorry for the hijack wet.
Do you have a thread now Whytry ?
I really hate to tie up wets thread for my response to you. And I apologize in advance for doing that...
I am sorry for the hijack wet.
No apology needed Boat14. I also looked unsuccessfully for Whytry's thread.
Quick update, I have not heard from W today. She asked when I would pick up s13, and I told her tomorrow/Wednesday, so I think she wants to speak about the final details of ending our marriage in person.
I had lunch with two friends with whom I own a Fantasy Football team. Let me do some bragging, our team is 19 and 5 (2 games a week) and we've already clinched our division title. I'm the guy who does the pick-ups, and the weekly line-ups, so I'm feeling pretty good about this year's team, and my part of it. It was a nice lunch with friends, where I got to get my fill of talking sports.
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Ok, that was a major relief. After Monday's convo with W, I was sure our divorce would have the terms finalized today. 3 days of thinking about what to say and an upset stomach for nothing!
So after Monday's convo with W where she pushed me for the divorce, we had only a few financial items to finalize our agreement. I asked her on Monday to give me a day to think about it - pushing it off for a day worked! When I went today to W's place to pick up s13, there was no mention of our divorce or anything related to it.
On Monday night W texted me to pray for a girl (who we knew from the old neighborhood) who was going in for emergency surgery the next day. We have seen God do amazing things when we pray together, so I said I would pray for the girl. And so, today all I spoke about with my W was the details of Thanksgiving schedules and the update on the girl who we prayed for (she is still not doing well). It was so easy.
I wish I would learn this lesson that often times the things which stress me out the most oftentimes don't result in what I fear. Of course, the problems with my W continue, but for today I can put these problems aside.
I wish I would learn this lesson that often times the things which stress me out the most oftentimes don't result in what I fear.
You learned the lesson, but as I have found personally, it's a hard one to remember...
A little self-observation from my dealing with W's telling me she wants the divorce on Monday, and that "I owe her". It's amazing how much I wanted to give her what she wanted, even if it was a divorce that I don't want.
I do the same thing with my children. Yesterday my s13 tells me he wants a $20 PS4 gift card for Madden football's 'Cornucopia' special. I'm learning to just say 'no'.
------------
So I'm a big 1980's music guy (the best decade of music ever). Yesterday, I revved myself up to just say NO to my W by listening to John Parr's 'St. Elmo's Fire (Man in Motion)'. Here's the lyrics:
Growin' up, you don't see the writing on the wall
Passin' by, movin' straight ahead, you know it all
But maybe sometime if you feel the pain
You'll find you're all alone, everything has changed.
Play the game, you know you can't quit until it's won.
Soldier on, only you can do what must be done
You know in some way you're a lot like me
You're just a prisoner and you're tryin' to break free
I can see the new horizon underneath the blazin' sky
I'll be where the eagle's flying higher and higher
Gonna be your man in motion, all I need is a pair of wheels
Take me where my future's lyin', St. Elmo's fire
Burning up, don't know just how far that I can go
(Just how far I go)
Soon be home, only just a few miles down the road
I can make it, I know, I can
You broke the boy in me but you won't break the man
I can see a new horizon underneath the blazin' sky
I'll be where the eagle's flying higher and higher
Gonna be your man in motion, all I need is a pair of wheels
Take me where my future's lyin', St. Elmo's fire
I can climb the highest mountain, cross the wildest sea
I can feel St. Elmo's fire burnin' in me, burnin' in me
Just once in his life a man has his time
And my time is now, and I'm coming alive.
I hope y'all enjoy this song as much as I do. Of course, you have to also think of Emelio Estevez kissing Andie McDowell to make the scene complete. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.
I love finding songs I can relate to. I often opened or included them in my threads like you have done here. I'm so glad the words of this song spoke to you.
Keep on enjoying life and you never know what may happen.
Thanx FY, there is something special about songs that can reach into our souls, isn't there?
I went to my parent's house for Thanksgiving, and I had d20, d17 and s13 with me. My W did a classy act. She came in and visited with my family when dropping off d17. Things were frosty between my family and W during my surgery 2 months ago, when I asked that she not be there. But W was very friendly and chatted with a number of family members, and my family was also friendly.
I went into the other room where the guys were watching the football game. And W came in sitting next to me, wearing a nice black dress and beautiful maroon nail polish. She said she went and hung out with some of her old high school friends last night at the bar where we met. She commented one of the sweet quiet girls from high school went crazy last night - I didn't ask for any further details. Then she said a bar fight broke out (very unusual for this suburban bar), and one of the patrons was sitting at the bar near to them, and he had a beer bottle smashed on his head! W tried to convince to call an ambulance, and all he could say was "I just want to go home."
My parents had 30 people show up for Thanksgiving, and it was nice to see family members I have not seen in a while. Really nice being around those who love and support me (and to eat some great food!)
I am thankful for many things. But I am really grateful to have gotten thru Thanksgiving without any further talk of divorce after Monday's discussion with W.
What a fun thing to do today! I have a bunch of Christmas village pieces, and I set up a table and unpacked all of the boxes. I'm going for the two, possibly three level effect. It's time for my creative side to come out in having them all fit together. It literally gave me shivers as I opened each box.
My W gave me the Christmas village pieces when she moved to her new place last July, saying she had no room to store them. I can see why she would not want the village pieces, as they are packed of memories of our old life together. Every year at this time of year, we would go on a trip to a beautiful, fun small town. It was the town we went to on our honeymoon. And it had the best small shops, including a great shop which sold the Christmas village pieces, along with special Christmas tree ornaments.
So my favorite piece is the 'Naughty or Nice Detective Agency'. We also had the ice rink skating rink, but I can't find that right now. That would be the piece de resistance, to make this all come together. I think I have a new tradition to do on the day after Thanksgiving.
My wife and I have the Simpson's Christmas village set. Homer falling off the ladder while hanging lights on their home, Moe's tavern, the Nuke power plant, the pile of burning tires... is that bad?
FY, a Simpson's Christmas village? It sounds hilarious.
S13 stayed the long weekend with me. He woke up with a sore throat, so I suggested orange juice, and other less sugary hi-vitamin C drinks but he wouldn't try a thing. He texted W and said he was sick, and she was already out driving (weird?, She loves sleeping in on the weekends. Unless she was coming back from somewhere... I'm not going there.) and she came and picked him up. An unexpected end to my time with s13.
S13 was home sick today, and in the afternoon I received a call from W asking a favor. D17 had an orthodontist appointment, and W didn't want to leave s13 home alone (this is new, and a change in a good direction). So I agreed to take d17 to her appointment.
The ride is over a half hour there, so I had some much needed time with d17. No, there is nothing on her Christmas list. No, there were no Christmas movies she had to see - she has already watched 'Elf'. Not a flowing convo, but that will take time.
D17 came to my van after her appointment with me having a heated discussion with my Mom, where she hung up on me - my Mom loves me and we never have fights. But d17 thought it was funny, which led to a discussion of her 'Nana' having a quick flare temper, and that you will know when she is mad. D17 then mentioned that Mom/W has the same sort of quick flare temper, but she has such a bad memory that its always forgotten by the next day. I thought to myself except for me, except for me.
W was so grateful for me taking d17 to her appointment she offered me some Beef Stew which she was making. I thankfully accepted - W always packs her stew with lotsa vegetables, and its a cold day, so I really wanted it, err, the stew.
When I brought d17 back to W's place, I went up to W's place and it was a disaster. Shopping cart in hallway. Shin high bags, boxes, items falling out of a closet, made it a difficult walk in her place (I'm still wearing my neck brace, and so its difficult seeing where I walk). W laughed it off, saying "welcome to the combat zone". I said nothing, and just smiled the whole time there.
The stew was delicious and I texted W another 'thank you'. She texted back saying that she was glad I liked it. Not very exciting but that is my R with W right now.
Sounds like a good day, Wet. Nice to have those sometimes, no?
AJ
I have been thinking about you having fear regarding your wife. I know I was there too. But you know what? You can survive that. If you are constantly on pins and needles, living in fear, then how is that living?
I felt as if I had no say. OK,I couldn't stop the divorce but I could control how I viewed it. I could take responsibility for my part but I never accepted that the affair was mine in any way. Shortly after the divorce, he filed for bankruptcy which dragged me into it as well. I felt as if I was taking a beating for a while there. I have come out the other side. All isn't perfect but it is mine to manage. I was scared during quite a bit of it but remember, what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.
I think you need to stop worrying about what your wife does or doesn't do but how you are taking control of your own situation. It sounds like you have some work to do on your relationships with your kids or at least with d17. Focus on this stuff and you will be amazed how different you will begin to feel about everything.
kat
I have been thinking about you having fear regarding your wife. I know I was there too. But you know what? You can survive that. If you are constantly on pins and needles, living in fear, then how is that living?
I felt as if I had no say. OK,I couldn't stop the divorce but I could control how I viewed it. I could take responsibility for my part but I never accepted that the affair was mine in any way. Shortly after the divorce, he filed for bankruptcy which dragged me into it as well. I felt as if I was taking a beating for a while there. I have come out the other side. All isn't perfect but it is mine to manage. I was scared during quite a bit of it but remember, what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.
I think you need to stop worrying about what your wife does or doesn't do but how you are taking control of your own situation. It sounds like you have some work to do on your relationships with your kids or at least with d17. Focus on this stuff and you will be amazed how different you will begin to feel about everything. kat
Thanks Kat. You're right. Yes, I'm feeling like I don't have a voice right now in dealing with W. It's hard though, with one day she is crying and insisting I agree to a divorce right now. Then the next day, she's acting like nothing happened, and asking for my help.
The harder part is that Christmas is coming. Our "thing" was that we would kiss each every time the Kay Jewelers commercial came on ("every kiss begins with Kay"). Do you know how many times I've seen that commercial today? Each one a little kick in the gut. And she is getting off Scott free, as she doesn't have tv service.
Thanks for your thoughts. You make me think, as much as it hurts sometimes.
I'm feeling like I don't have a voice right now in dealing with W. It's hard though, with one day she is crying and insisting I agree to a divorce right now. Then the next day, she's acting like nothing happened, and asking for my help.
You have more say than you know right now. Your W is spinning, it's true. But she most certainly is watching you, and taking notes. Allow her to see strength and confidence. And above all, steadiness... That whole lighthouse story.
What do you tell her when she insists on divorce?
What do you do when she reaches out to you for help?
Our "thing" was that we would kiss each every time the Kay Jewelers commercial came on ("every kiss begins with Kay"). Do you know how many times I've seen that commercial today? Each one a little kick in the gut. And she is getting off Scott free, as she doesn't have tv service.
First of all, W is not "getting off scott free". She is buried deep in crisis, likely doing way worse than you!
I remember that cadet would often say that he would not want to be the one in crisis.
Since you're following The Plan, you are growing stronger every week/month. (I didn't say every day... 'cause I know some days will truly blow!)
The commercial "kiss" is something that one day you will be able to look back on fondly, no matter what happens with your marriage. Treasure it even now.
Try to not watch regular channels or the mushy ones like Hallmark or Lifetime. I watch lots of forensic and mystery shows. Nothing with love.
It can be done. Really, stop thinking about that stuff. I know it is hard but it doesn't have to be torture. just until after Christmas.
kat
Try to not watch regular channels or the mushy ones like Hallmark or Lifetime. I watch lots of forensic and mystery shows. Nothing with love. kat
Hi Kat, really? You see me as someone who watches the Hallmark or Lifetime channels? No way, I watch anything with Paul Walker, Vin Diesel, or a zombie (Z Nation is my new favorite), or where the body count goes into double digits.
I'm joking with you. Yes, the regular channels have those dang Kay Jeweler commericals running all the time. Maybe I will spend more time playing music and reading a book.
I just had a nice surprise. D20 bought, brought home and set up a pre-lit Christmas tree. She also had ornaments, tinsel and a star for the top. She and her boyfriend set it up, and did an outstanding job. Our apartment really needed it.
I did help by choosing and playing Christmas music to set the tone.
It's very sweet to see how loving d20 is with her bf. And how proud they were of their first Christmas together.
Focus on this stuff and you will be amazed how different you will begin to feel about everything. kat
Exactly ^^^^...that is in your realm of influence, and control.
W? Not so much.
Tell me what you have planned for the next 10 days, please.
How is the village thingy coming along?
Hi T^2, nice to see you checking in. Focus on my kids, I'm doing ok with this, at least with d20 and s13, but d17 is a tuff one. Unfortunately, she is so much like me - bookish, loves books and movies, and a strong faith. But right now, she prefers spending time at her mom's place. She won't open up to me, so it's hard to know what is going on in her brain, and why she doesn't want to spend more time with me.
T^2, you asked about my plans for the next 10 days? I have two Christmas parties I am invited to. The Divorce Care group is a total 180 for me, there will be 40 people there, most of whom I do not know. I have a nice friendship growing with a woman who is a regular in this group, but I know right now I am unavailable.
I am also going to have the kids play hookie, and go see some Christmas displays in the neighboring big city. We used to do this as a family every year, but skipped it last year. I want to do something a little different with my kids this year, but still close enough to make the kids remember our past times together during this time of year.
I think I am doing much better in my not thinking about my W. Today, I texted/asked W how our sick s13 was doing and she mentioned she may have to take him to the doctor. But then she threw in her response that she was having "someone come over" to fix her computer. This has always been my job, even recently, and it did cause a quick "trigger" of jealousy. But I quickly let it pass. I'm proud of myself for not dwelling on it today. It's her sandbox, and I already know she's dating other men, so this is nothing new. I am actually feeling good that there is someone else to deal with the computer problem.
but d17 is a tuff one. Unfortunately, she is so much like me - bookish, loves books and movies, and a strong faith.
In my sitch I've found that my middle one is Mom's "protector", and others have told me they have noticed that they have one child take on that role. Maybe she is doing that, since it sounds like it's pretty chaotic over at W's place?
Regardless, since she is so much like you, I bet you know pretty well what she needs.
What did you need when you were 17 from a parent? Especially the one you weren't as close to?
Can you plan any activities to touch on her interests, validate them in some way? Show you do "get" her some?
I bet you can...
Since I have had such a great relationship with my girls, the teenage button when it was pushed came as a bit of a shock. I know d16 loves me but some moments are just really hard. She is trying to separate from me, I get that. That doesn't mean that she has gotten closer to her Dad though.
Trying to find your own way is hard no matter the age, add in all the teen angst and hormones... get out of the way. At the same time I do" know" her. I give her space when she needs it, I present things that she may enjoy in subtle ways. For example I thought she might like "The Breakfast Club". She was sitting in the living room working on her computer and I put it on. Didn't ask or mention it. After a bit, I noticed she was really into it. New favorite movie and a bonding moment.
Hang in there.
kat
Thanks Kat and T^2, you inspired me to reach out to d17. She will be going off to school in the fall, and exposed to new people and new ideas. So I emailed her to see if she wanted to go thru an exercise which will challenge her faith. We'll see if she accepts the challenge.
My plan is to help her think thru ideas which will conflict with her faith, like Mithra, Old Earth vs. Young Earth Creationism, and perhaps Islam. But I know she is busy with school and applying to colleges and financial aid, so let's see if I found something that interests her.
Otherwise, on Thursday I am taking d20, d17 and s13 downtown to see a Christmas display or two. I haven't told W yet, so I better get on the stick.
I guess I am not fully detached. My W texted me on Sunday telling me she has been curled up all weekend because she was sick. This made me happy knowing she wasn't out with other men. But I was nice enough to text her back that "I am sorry that you are not feeling well." Does this ever go away?
It subsides over time and with practice. Give time, time.
Ok, I'm a knuckle-head. I just snooped my W's dating profile - yes, she is still on at least 2 dating websites.
Here, I just posted for someone else that to snoop is only inflicting pain on yourself. And then I do this.
A couple of interesting notes about her dating profile:
- W now lists herself as "separated" rather than single;
- Her current OM (if he is even around any more) must not be so special as she has not given up up the dating sites for him. Of course, what's that say about me as it's me that she is married to;
- The one hard piece of info on her profile. She freely speaks about sex. And her great line about sex, she believes before buying the car, she "needs to test drive it first." Ughhhh!
Of course, what's that say about me as it's me that she is married to;
Says not a thing. It's about HER, not you.
So now that you touched the hot burner again, ready to stop touching it yet?
I have all these burn scars on my hands that reminded me to not go there...eventually.
Have you had your time with D17 yet?
Of course, what's that say about me as it's me that she is married to;
Says not a thing. It's about HER, not you.
Have you had your time with D17 yet?
Thanks T^2, I needed to hear that.
I will see d17 and the other local kids on Thursday for a day-long Christmas display outing. She has not yet responded to my attempt at least engaging her by email to discuss tough Christian topics.
Yep snooping is painful. She hadn't indicated that she stopped, so why even go there. Please stop looking in the rear view mirror, it will only keep you tied to the past.
As for your daughter, I was aiming for something light to connect you. She is going through enough heavy thoughts at the time and I am sure trying to understand her mothers actions is quite a weight on her. Chances are she is being more of an adult than her mother now. Give her a break, remind her that there is fun still. That being a kid can still bring joy and silliness.
kat
... As for your daughter, I was aiming for something light to connect you. She is going through enough heavy thoughts at the time and I am sure trying to understand her mothers actions is quite a weight on her. Chances are she is being more of an adult than her mother now. Give her a break, remind her that there is fun still. That being a kid can still bring joy and silliness.
kat
Hi Kat,
You mean everyone doesn't enjoy engaging in spiritual discussions on tough intellectual topics? This is what I do, and one of the things I enjoy most in life. To engage with someone with a different viewpoint, and the moment when one of us has a "light bulb" moment when something new is discovered and learned is great fun for me.
But I understand your point - d17 is still a young woman. And she likely needs more "fun" than intellectual challenge right now in her life. Again this is the challenge. I invited her and s13 to spend the night (tomorrow they do not have school). So let's see if she accepts the invitation and maybe I can pull out a fun video game we would both enjoy. Thanks again.
So I went to W's place to pick up d17 and s13, not expecting W to be there as she was at the hospital all day for a family member having surgery. But as I entered W was there on the phone speaking to d18. As I am standing there, W mentions that she has a "wild" Friday nite planned (sarcasm was used here.) She was having friends over, she emphasized women friends, for a cookie exchange.
The 'ol Wet was gullible enough to believe W, that she is spending time with women friends, and hoping maybe she is getting better. I want to believe the best in her, and I am sure on Friday nite it really is with her gal pals. But I also know the truth, W continues to date other men, and this won't hurt me any more. It is out of my control.
So I have all 3 local kids at my place tonite, and this is good. D17 is already doing homework, so I don't have much contact with her yet. But enjoying the kids thru the next day is job #1.
So when I was going through this and there wa an OM. I thought they @#$%ed on a regular basis 12 times a day.
Turns out I was really wrong, really wrong.
Now one could say once was way more than enough, point made, however it certainly wasn't what my little afraid monkey brain was telling me.
Heres the ssuck part Wet and you mentioned it, but not sure you up to living it right now.
If she is seeing a guy? What can you do about it? Worrying about it just turns the knife in your gut.
On this? Take her at her word, its better for your head.
D20 was sick this morning and so we decided to cancel plans to go downtown to see Christmas displays. Instead, I took d17 and s13 to go see a movie ('Big Hero 6', a really good, inspiring movie). Everyone loved the movie, when the movie was over s13 gave me a fist bump he enjoyed it so much. Took them out to eat afterward, just a good day.
D17 said she was up for discussing spiritual topics that may challenge her when she goes off to college. She is so much like me. She said "bring it on", that she has such a strong faith there is nothing that could challenge this faith. I'm smiling on the inside, b/c I know what I have gone thru in the past 2 years brought my faith to the brink. I would not wish this sort of challenge upon anyone else, let alone my daughter. Lord, protect d17's faith, and bless our upcoming discussions.
Jack's right, Wet. Don't twist that knife.
Seems odd that W would make a point of saying that. Regardless how YOU take it.
Glad you had a good day. Work on letting go, Wet and not letting your "monkey brain" get the better of you.
AJ
Thanks Jack and AJ, yes I have to work on not inflicting pain on myself. I get it.
So I called up W to see when I can pick up s13. And she's telling me she has a PARTY tonight. She has to use the condo's PARTY room, it's such a big deal.
Oh yes, I guess she forgot that she already told me from last Wednesday that it's a cookie exchange with only women. I am thinking a bit about why she now is trying to impress me about this being a PARTY. But I will not dwell on this, and instead her comment is only giving me a reason to chuckle. Here's hoping that she sends s13 to my place with a plate full of cookies.
Wet, thanks for your comments on my thread.
Just caught up a bit on your situation - sounds like you are progressing along very well and that your kids are great.
Congratulations on that!
Thoughts and prayers are with you. Stay strong!
So I called W a few hours ago. W's nephew's wife (niece-in-law?) had surgery removing her spleen this past Wednesday, and W asked for my prayers. So when I called today, I asked how NIL was doing, and W said she was so afraid of the news that she hasn't looked at her emails all weekend. W was appreciative for my asking, and she would report back to me later.
So let me also report what W told me last Wednesday when I saw her on this same topic. She had spent the day at the hospital waiting room with the family during the NIL's 4 hour surgery. This was serious surgery (her platelets were at zero). And she told me how her nephew would be strong when around NIL, but when he came around the family he would break down crying.
Then W looked me in the eye and said "when the love of your life is facing serious surgery, it is much harder on the worried spouse than on the spouse in the hospital."
I think this is a clear reference to my decision 2 months ago during my "life threatening" health issue and surgery when I did not allow W at the hospital. And, of course, how difficult this must have been on her. Did she really make reference to me as the love of her life, or am I reading too much into this?
When I spoke to W I also mentioned that I would bring s13 back to W's place tonight a little later than usual. Then W blurted out "I really appreciate that we don't fight over our kid's schedules. There are a lot of couples that do." I agreed with her, and left it at that. I like that she is being more appreciative of me, but I can't believe it's anything more than that.
I wouldnt read anything into it. Anyone can say what you want to hear,Actions are what you need to look at. I worry that you keep watching her instead of trying to focus on moving your life forward.
I think I have mentioned before that the only marriages I know that made it were the ones where the LBS had totally dropped the rope. They were moving on with their lives, if not actually physically preparing to move. How their day went wasn't connected with how their spouse did anything. Get your life where you want it.
kat
Thanks for the reminder Kat. So did I go to far? I told s13 that if he was "naughty" Santa would give him a 6 foot Adrien Peterson Fat Head poster to hang in his bedroom. (Adrien is a superstar pro football player recently convicted of excessive child punishment.) And I would personally staple a "switch" on the poster's hand, as a reminder. Hmmmm?
I think that you should have contacted your nephew in regards to his wife, see if there was anything that they needed help with. You contacted your wife and it seemed maybe more like a reason to call her rather than checking in on your neice.
Also, you are still trying to understand what her meaning in when she says things. If she meant something she would show you by actions. She hasn't so she doesn't mean anything by what she says. She likes to play with your head and she must think you are game because you let her.
kat
Kat as always, I appreciate your sage advice. Yes, there are no actions coming from W which would justify my attempt to read into her words.
Ok, so how stupid am I being now? I just got an email from MWD, and I am considering forwarding it to my W. MWD's email talks about if you are considering a divorce after the holidays (like my W is), why not give your children the best gift of a lifetime. Working on your marriage.
I am now separated a year and a half. And there is no positive signs coming from my W. I am considering sending the email bc the real focus is working on the marriage for the kid's sake.
Ok, as I am writing this, I see the folly of my plan. Do I really want a W who returns out of duty to the kids rather than love? No, I don't. But sometimes I just want to shake things up just to see if something different happens. I hope I am making sense.
Wet,
Well if your tired of the status quo and there really is no positive change you are allowed to change things up a little and see what happens.
As long as you are aware and prepared for things to potentially change in a bad way.
Wet,
Well if your tired of the status quo and there really is no positive change you are allowed to change things up a little and see what happens.
As long as you are aware and prepared for things to potentially change in a bad way.
Thanks Jack. Ha, something may change in a bad way? What worse could happen? W is on the verge of forcing the divorce after the New Year, and we've been separated for a year and a half. What can get worse in this picture?
Thanks for letting me get that out. I have a surgery scheduled for tomorrow. A simple carpel tunnell surgery that should take as long as waiting for a premium sandwich in some places (10 minute surgery.) So let's see if this will go well. I've told d18, but no one else in the family except for my Mom.
I have learned the hard way to not ask that question "What worse could happen?" out loud. : )
Ok, I need to smile today. Here is a lawyer joke for everyone:
The Hundred-Dollar Bill.
Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, an honest lawyer, and an old drunk were walking along when they simultaneously spotted a hundred-dollar bill laying in the street. Who gets it?
The old drunk, of course, the other three are mythological creatures.
My carpal tunnel surgery earlier this afternoon went well. So I called my W to see if she would be willing to drop off s13 after school at my place, as I was feeling a bit queasy.
W was mad in her response, I caught her off guard as she did not know I had the surgery. For the first time in a while she fought with me. She said that no, s13 would stay with her tonight. I told her I was fine, just a bit woozy after the surgery. But she insisted, and I responded that I love my son and I want to spend this whole weekend with him.
W just dropped off s13. I sent W a text thanking her. Why can't I win more important fights, like for our marriage with her?
Maybe because it isn't that kind of fight. She knows you are waiting, she knows she is totally in control. She doesn't have to fight.
So that isn't too much fun is it? What are you going to do to shift the control? Maybe that isn't really the idea. Maybe the goal is for you to take control of what you can...you. I know that you can feel helpless the way things are now. I know that I did. I must sound like I am beating a dead horse, but really, make your life what you want. You can't make other people be in that life but you can make it special for all of those that choose to share your life with you.
Merry Christmas Tom.
kat
Hi Kat,
I know that 2015 is going to be different. I expect to have my neck brace and hand wrap off on New Year's Eve, so I am looking forward to a healthier New Year. And with a bit more money I also look forward to the freedom to do more outside activities. In other words, to make my life more of the way I want it - just like Dr. Kat suggests.
Merry Christmas right back at you Kat.
Why can't I win more important fights, like for our marriage with her?
Kat's right. It's because you can only control YOU. Once you know that, things will be different (by know, I mean internalize it and embrace it.)
Merry Christmas!
AJ
Merry Xmas wet!
Make it a good one, one of YOUR making, do lots of good things for yourself.
Merry Christmas to everyone. I went to Church with my M & D, and had a traditional oyster stew meal at M & D's house, with sister, brother, their spouses and 2 of their kids and spouses.
I felt crummy all day, I was able to scrape up enough $ to buy last minute gifts for s13 and d17, but the stress of battling the store crowds got to me. But with the family I did a good job of keeping the conversations focused on others, and not emotionally vomiting on everyone else.
One item did get to me - my Dad has taken a lot of Christmas pictures over the years, and he played the pictures on a loop where we were all sitting. And it was great to see how everyone has changed over the years, great pics of our kids. But the were several pics of my W and I. After 2 hours of this, I finally snapped at my brother to close the laptop - enough. My only raw moment of emotion today.
I just got a text from W wishing me a Merry Christmas. I responded "Merry Christmas right back at you", and then discussed when I would pick up kids tomorrow. W said that she is having "friends come in from out of town", and that she wants both kids to spend Christmas and the day after overnight with me. I am looking forward to spending time with the kids, and I don't care what W's plans are. I got a good 2 player video game for s13, and I'm planning on opening a can of whoop b*tt on him.
Peace and God's strength to all.
Merry Christmas, Wet!
Oyster stew? Hmm.. that sounds like an interesting tradition.
AJ
Yes, I believe oyster stew is a German tradition. It's an acquired taste.
D17, s13 and I are staying at my parent's house for the night. I just want them to spend time together. We've played games, I got the old Super Nintendo system working, and the kids and I played Super Mario 3 (!!) together. I cleared the final boss and recovered the wand on the first level, but d17 is the much better player. That's as far as we got.
This gave me a weird feeling - d20 spent last night with my W and d17 and s13 before I picked them up. W reportedly lost it when asked about d18 in Boston. But then just gushed about having d20 sleep in the same bed as her.
The weird feeling is that d20 lives with me and is in MY corner. She hasn't had much of a R with W for the past year and a half. In one part of my mind, I'm happy there is healing in their R, it's healthier for everyone. But gosh darn it, I kinda want her to still hold a grudge against W. Goofy reaction?
D17 told me today that W's bf (a woman) has pancreatic cancer, and that she is given 2 years to live. W has been close to bf especially since BD.
I texted W to let her know that d17 told me about bf's cancer, and that I hoped W was doing ok thru this. W deflected my concern and replied that this is a death sentence and that bf is terrified.
W's sister also went thru pancreatic cancer a few years ago, and was able to get thru this. I mentioned how this experience W has b/c of sister's cancer will be a good support for what her bf is going thru. I then again asked if W was holding up thru this. And W again did not respond to my q's about how she was doing.
She isn't thinking so much about herself in this case but about her friend. Her not answering you about herself would lead me to believe that is true.
Don't try to connect to your W through something painful unless you are willing to be contacting the actual person. You just did this with her niece. Reach out to her friend. Ask if there is anything that you can do for her. Don't get into a conversation about your W, keep the focus on her and how you might be of help.
I know you are trying to connect with your W. She hasn't indicated that she is open to that, so please quit trying that. Cheese less tunnels.
Focus on you and your kids.
kat
Hi Kat, you are right. Somewhat surprisingly my W appears primarily focused on her best friend's cancer and not on how this effects her.
I say surprisingly because of my W's MLC, which can make her to be self-focused - I say this given her reaction to my recent health scare. I do not know W's best friend very well, and so I will not contact her directly.
I tested the water, so to speak, as my last interaction with W was before Thanksgiving when she insisted we complete our divorce, and then just dropped it. So I learned nothing from contacting my W, and I will continue this week having no-contact with her.
So it is hard to kick my old ways. W called me and let me know she is giving up the lease for a photography studio that she shares with some other photographers. She says she can no longer afford it.
Instead of giving her words which showed I was listening, I thought about different ways to fix her problem. I felt guilty as my support payment is not yet paid this month. But I did back off, understanding that this is her decision alone. And the question keeps nagging me how she is able to afford her place without a job, and no longer having her studio.
I am enjoying having my s13 for this week. We are enjoying goofing around with each other, playing video games, and discussing important issues of the day, like who is the better offensive NBA player Seth Curry or Carmelo. This part of my life is going well.
We all backslide, it's human.
Can you make yourself a "Do Not Fix!!" banner alert or picture and use it on her contact entry on your phone? Or something?
I'm glad things are going well with your son...it counts, he's watching...
Yay New Year! It is starting off well. I have removed my neck brace (from surgery 3 months ago), the stitches in my hand. And I worked out in the exercise room for the first time in 3 months. It feels good.
I had a good week and a half with s13. Just hung out together, played video games and enjoyed our time together.
S13 forgot his phone, and so a few days ago W called me to speak to son. He was typical teenage guy and used one word replies (grunts?) and was off the phone in 30 seconds. This was their only contact.
Today was something new, W called and asked me to bring s13 home early. Even 6 months ago, W wanted me to keep son as long as possible. Now she missed him, and I see this as only a good thing - where W is rebuilding her relationship and connection with son.
So I brought s13 back to W by noon. It made it a bit lonely watching the NFL playoff games, but I had plenty of sports watching with s13 during the past week and a half, so no complaining on my part.
Wet, just catching up on your situation.
You seem to be doing well and are getting good advice and commentary...... nice job!
Stay strong!
Ten below here in town this morning, so I decided I could have a day off (a benefit of being self-employed.) And I took d17 to the Hobbit part 3. It was a great movie, although there are ALOT of battle scenes in it.
W texted me yesterday asking for our insurance agent's name. I went to Divorce Care last night, and so it took me 9 hours to respond.
I used to always sing "Baby it's cold outside" to W on cold days. I've been having an urge to text her with it, just to see the response. But given my slow response to W's question yesterday, I've decided to continue to lay low.
I haven't seen W since Thanksgiving. I haven't snooped for several weeks now, not even on FB. It's amazing, by my not snooping, I have better thoughts about my W. I keep thinking she's getting healthier, without any evidence to support that. It's one more benefit of not snooping.
Next week is W's birthday. I'm not planning anything. But perhaps it's time for a temperature check with W?
Yeah, I think that b/c I don't snoop that I can just keep my life focused on my kids and I. Then...
I had lunch with my Mom today. She mentions did I see W's Facebook post? I tell her I don't look at my W's FB posts, and I don't care to know what she posted.
My Mom goes ahead and tells me that W posted that one good thing her ex taught her is to not just celebrate a one day birthday (W's birthday is next week), but to celebrate the whole week - yes, I celebrate birthday weeks for everyone in our family.
I don't know whether to laugh or to cry, knowing W thought of me at this one moment during her life, enough to post to her FB friends.
That's awesome of your mom to ignore what you told her.
And yet she referred to you as her ex, I agree with your mom. Best to put her out of your mind.
Just a quick high jack, they have induced my sons girlfriend, so I will be a Nana soon.
kat
Maybe my W is back to calling me her "ex", and maybe my Mom got it wrong. But you know what? I don't care. I did not check my W's FB to find out what she really said. I've got stuff in my own life to work on.
An old lawyer joke for you today, but I hope it brings a smile to you:
A man dies and goes directly to Hell. While he is milling around, he spots another man who he recognizes as a lawyer, and the lawyer is snuggling up to a beautiful woman.
"That's totally unfair!" he protests to the Devil. "I have to burn in Hell for all eternity, and that lawyer gets to spend it with a beautiful woman!"
"Silence!" barks the Devil, jabbing with his pitchform. "Who are you to question that woman's punishment?!"
Lol .. That's pretty funny ... would be better if the Lawyer had MLC on top of it ... hehehe
Well, fudge! I asked W if I could pick up s13 at 4:15 this afternoon. I haven't seen W in 5 weeks, I have no pics of her, I was really looking forward to just seeing her. I'm just being honest.
But when I got there W was filling up her car at the gas station. Sigh. She had s13 cleaning the kitchen for about 15 minutes. I had the chance to snoop W's place, her computer, bedroom, etc., but I didn't. It's amazing the pull that snooping still has on me.
One thing I did notice was that W has a cat in her "No Pets Allowed" condo. She has a friend whose place was flooded, and W offered to watch her cat.
I smiled. In one sense, I like not having the craziness of W in my life, and the idea of risking losing her home in order to keep a cat there. But am I crazy? I kinda like and miss that sort of wackiness, never knowing what each day will bring. I'm missing my W today.
I had a good weekend. On Saturday, I spent 6 hours gaming with old high school friends (where does the time go?) I also had s13 for the weekend and watched some football with him. The first words out of my son's mouth as a baby were "boo Packers", and so I was not too happy with the Green Bay victory.
It is funny, today is W's birthday and at the beginning of the weekend I was missing her so much I thought I would text her and offer her a massage. But today, despite feeling anxious, I have decided against this. Having the weekend to clear my head and be occupied, I am back to keeping my focus on me. I have also decided to not even acknowledge her birthday, and treat this as any other day. Tonight's game is now my focus, Go Buckeyes!
I get so weary myself at times, but if you are religious, getting the daily e-mails from Charlyne Cares (Rejoice Ministries) is hugely helpful as far as weariness. I found out about them last year lurking on these forums and I don't think I would have been able to stand without that support.
On a practical level, it will probably take as long to grieve, find a new life and meet someone else as it will to stand and wait; that's what I always remind myself. I prefer to wait out my husband's craziness for some years, standing and being a light, and hope that we can reunite as a family when the time is right and be old grandparents together one day.
Thank you Gerda for your post. The waiting is the best thing for me right now, to help me deal with my own issues. It just happens to be the only chance our marriage has also.
So glad that you were able to get through the birthday without commenting. It does get easier with time.
Sounds as if you are getting some quality time with your son, which is certainly a good thing. Glad you are able to keep your focus on you and your kids, that si where it belongs.
kat
how are you going to expand your GAL and R with kids this year, buddy?
Thanks Kat and T^2, I am back down to my pre-holiday weight. That is encouraging. I also have my first physical therapy on Monday for my shoulder, so that is also good.
My $$ and my job are my main source of stress right now. (As long as you don't count those dang ever present Cialis commercials, jeesh). My boss is sending out a less effective marketing mailer than what he had told me about a few months ago. My inclination is to wait it out and see what add'l work comes from the marketing mailer.
But yesterday I still sent out a resume for a job I really would like. On the GAL, I'm getting out and regularly seeing friends. But I just want more $$ to take the stress off of day-to-day living.
How are you self-employed but have a boss? Just wondering.
kat
Hi G'ma Kat, I work in the office of financial planners. The head financial planner calls all of the shots in the office, and so acts like my boss. Though technically, I am an independent attorney.
Anyone have this happen to them? For a week now I have had sexual dreams of my WAW?! This is crazy b/c we have been separated for over a year and a half. I don't look at her pics, I don't talk to her, I don't think about her (besides an occasional prayer for her). But that's it. And the dreams are not of stuff we've done, it's completely new scenarios.
What's going on?
I have been invited to Las Vegas in February. A long time friend is getting married for the first time (he is a couple of years older than me.) And a mutual friend who is organizing the trip promises that this will be wilder than Hangover parts 1 thru 3. Hmmm...
So I took d20 and her boyfriend out for lunch today. He is a Packers fan, and after a bit of ribbing about how Seattle will win on Sunday, the convo was light. I decided to bring up my upcoming Las Vegas trip. D20 has the tenacity of a lawyer, and kept asking me who I was going with, was I going with a woman, etc. I decided to play it close to the vest, and provide little details. But she didn't like it, dad/me doesn't just do something like this - she accused me of having a mid-life crisis?! Funny, I'd like to be the guy that does trips like this on short notice, so my children aren't so surprised when it happens!
Couldn't you have just told her : " A long time friend is getting married" ? That would be the truth, and enough info, imo.
Have an absolute blast, and let the sitch sit on the back-burner.
I went to pick up s13 tonight, but he was asleep on W's bed. He is a realllly deep sleeper. So as we shared some small talk, I was standing next to W in her bedroom looking at son sleeping, and I placed my hand on her back. It was not a good response - W sprinted away from me and went to the other side of the bed and tried persuading s13 to wake up.
I tried to quickly recover and as W was tickling son to wake him up and failed. I came over and said we should double-team him with tickling. It was kinda funny, but W then quickly left and told me to handle it from here.
S13 never woke up. W seemed to anticipate that I would get mad, but I stayed calm. W commented that I came so far to pick son up (15 minutes away) and I told her it was not a big deal. I simply asked that she drop him off at my place when it was convenient tomorrow. W told me that tomorrow was so busy, mentioning she was preparing a business plan. But then said she would try.
I was curious what her business plan might involve - now that her two businesses the cat breeding and her photography business have folded, what she might be doing. But I stayed away from asking any questions. It just didn't seem like the right time, as W was busy cleaning up the place.
I went to pick up s13 tonight, but he was asleep on W's bed. He is a realllly deep sleeper. So as we shared some small talk, I was standing next to W in her bedroom looking at son sleeping, and I placed my hand on her back. It was not a good response - W sprinted away from me and went to the other side of the bed and tried persuading s13 to wake up.
I tried to quickly recover and as W was tickling son to wake him up and failed. I came over and said we should double-team him with tickling. It was kinda funny, but W then quickly left and told me to handle it from here.
S13 never woke up. W seemed to anticipate that I would get mad, but I stayed calm. W commented that I came so far to pick son up (15 minutes away) and I told her it was not a big deal. I simply asked that she drop him off at my place when it was convenient tomorrow. W told me that tomorrow was so busy, mentioning she was preparing a business plan. But then said she would try.
I was curious what her business plan might involve - now that her two businesses the cat breeding and her photography business have folded, what she might be doing. But I stayed away from asking any questions. It just didn't seem like the right time, as W was busy cleaning up the place.
Why did you try to reach out to her when she hasn't done anything to show that would be welcome? Is it really worth the pain of her reaction?
I know that my ex and I are comfortable now but we are not friends, we are parents. We share alot of history, most of which he chooses to draw a blank on. I am more than happy to be a big part of my kids lives. I am good with that.
Refocus.
kat
Why did you try to reach out to her when she hasn't done anything to show that would be welcome? Is it really worth the pain of her reaction?
Stove. Hot. Touch. Don't.
I get why you did, I did many times, but eventually my scientific test mode wore thin.
I ran out of burn salve.
Please stop looking her way, you're not hearing her.
You are not helping YOU.