Old thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2507002&page=1Time for a new Thread, Same title as I have come to realize my MLC Zombie is still in the tunnels, aimlessly wandering looking for doorways that lead out.
So the tail end of the last thread have had a good deal of action, seemingly fules from the Halloween night we exchanged some words ... not in the good way.
At this moment, I have no Intel mind you .. gut feel ..OM is still in the picture but Tuesday she admitted (In a depressed stage) that she felt an addiction, was not sure if God or I would ever forgive her. The guilt she feels is tremedous but in the course of a day this changes to almost entitlement ... again .. nothing shocks me much anymore with the MLC script she adds to and follows.
So the past few days S has been acting up, he was upset with W over her taking his 20 bucks (I have no idea what really happened here, who do you believe a 7 year old or the MLC? I sadly am siding with the 7 year old). He also was upset as in her depressed stage early this week she asked if she could keep him on one of my nights so she was not alone (I had no problem with this .. however S was not excited about the idea).
I picked up S yesterday after school, we had a long talk about what was bothering him, he told me the day started out bad with W taking the $$, then some things happened at school and he got into trouble 3 times (Kid never gets in trouble), then I had picked him up and he was looking forward to staying with me but had to go with his mom, did not tell her about his day and things were difficult... she yelled at him and threatened to spank him making him cry. Then he got out of the shower and overheard her talking with someone on the phone (Was not me) and she said "He will not listen to me" .. .he asked who she was talking to and she lied and told him it was just the iPad.
So that was the day he had .. I dropped him off this morning with a few things in mind .. knowing she would confront me about it ... and realizing how touchy this situation is .. So I gave S a big hug (Me being the rock and the one he can trust and count on ... huge in my book) I tell him that his bad day is behind him, keep God in his heart and make today the best day possible. W asks me is he is ok, hoping to escape with a yes confirm he is good. Then she asked me what happened ... ok .. Deep breath. I told her what was going on ... I was calm, and explained how his day started, I said I don't know what the deal is with the 20 bucks but that started it. She replied she did not want him to be spoiled .. I agreed and said that's was just the start. I told her that the relationship between her and S has been strained ... that he does not trust her because she has lied to him, and they have some serious trust issues to sort out. She asked for examples and I gave her a few .. (Without bringing up the OM lies .. very hard as I WANTED to but knew it would not help.) I told her he overheard her talking to someone on the phone, I calmly but sternly told her I would hope if there is something concerning our son she is having trouble with that I would be the first to be called/involved ... I do not feel comfortable with anyone but her and I parenting our child. (OM implied here but not mentioned) ... she was kind of reeling, said she could not recall who she was talking to .. that she does ask Mary for advice .. I validated saying .. told her that's fine, she has a boy the same age and I am sure she could be a useful resource in many cases, but no one knows S better than me, and he shares his feelings with me so I know what is going on with him ... no one else does, and let it go as I felt the core message was received. She admitted its devastating to know your own S does not trust you ... I borrowed a concept I read that Starsky posted from RobX and told her "trust is hard to regain when its lost, you have to be consistent .. and with everything you are going through I am sure its hard to be that way" More than once lately she has told me that I should take him .. honestly its getting hard to say no to that, I want to protect S from her, while she goes through this and ends up becoming whatever it is awaits her.
She wants to discuss our tax mess on Saturday, I told her I was open to it but needed to work, then she brought up the football game I wanted to take S to Saturday, I had invited her ... turn out she was looking forward to this. I told her she was still more than welcome to go .. she asked how much $$ (She must be really struggling here with funds ... guessing the MLC lifestyle has caught up with her) So I smiled and told her its my treat.
So ^^^^ That is what is happening at the moment ... however I backslid personally .. not that she seen, Tuesday I was there for her, she was down, I was/am happy its me she calls out for when she needs comforting. I know I can not fix her or heal her depression .. but its ME she calls .. not OM. But I do feel used, its like she gets better and like this morning .. all business, that little glimpse of the girl I love is back to the Zombie. Saturday confused me .. figured we would go back to separate lives ... so I will use this chance to be PMA, have fun .. a chance to showcase the new me ... have not had that chance in a month or so. She told me Tuesday she was confused and does not know what she wants. Maybe I see that as a glimmer of hope.
Goals to focus on for me:
1.Listen .. STFU and Listen
2.No Arguing, No Matter What
3.Establish a safe place, Smooth Paved, Gain her Trust....slowly
Really?
You're better than that...
That thinking isn't going to help you, Cali...
Would you feel that way if she was going through chemo-therapy?
Recovering from a debilitating accident?
Recovering from drug addiction?
What's the difference?
Can you re-frame it as:
"I am supporting and helping a loved one in a crisis, I may never be re-paid for my time and effort, however, it is the man/human I choose to be."
Hm?
Really?
You're better than that...
That thinking isn't going to help you, Cali...
Would you feel that way if she was going through chemo-therapy?
Recovering from a debilitating accident?
Recovering from drug addiction?
What's the difference?
Can you re-frame it as:
"I am supporting and helping a loved one in a crisis, I may never be re-paid for my time and effort, however, it is the man/human I choose to be."
Hm?
You are absolutely right .. I know you are. Its something I know I am not dealing with correctly.... confirming I am not as detached as I would like to be. I think the feeling used part comes from my fear ... the OM .. I feel like I patch her up and she is all better and goes back to him, its something I have to stop thinking about, stop that mindset ... I like your perspective better .. I will adopt those words when I feel this way.
On the positive .. she has done this often and usually I have backslid and said something to her about it .. this time I have not, I tucked it in .. faked it ... progress .. baby steps.
I had to get a 2x4 from a vet on that feeling, too, Cali.
Now about the fear...OM...
What do you fear?
That he's better in bed?
Richer?
More fun?
Better "equipment"?
Hm?
I had to get a 2x4 from a vet on that feeling, too, Cali.
Now about the fear...OM...
What do you fear?
That he's better in bed?
Richer?
More fun?
Better "equipment"?
Hm?
Well according to a couple MLC spew sessions .. he is better in bed and the "equipment is better ... according to her. And yeah .. that is a fear .. and deep down its the thing I think has her hooked on him, again .. my fears and things I am dealing with ... but if I am not honest here with you guys what purpose will that serve me. He very well could be more fun /richer .. I could care less about that.
I think what has brought back these fears and feelings was Last Sunday's talk .. she confessed that when we were dating 20+ years ago, I was overseas (Persian Gulf War) ... she Dear John'd me ... and slept with someone else. We were each others first, I lived my entire life thinking we had only been with each other. And Bamm ... she told me she thinks this is where she got the STD and not till now (Last March) did it flare up (It was assumed OM gave her the "gift").
The other item is .. we had gone 3+ years without sex (Due to what was a "medical condition" according to her)...then .. BD and Separation .. 3 months later she has sex with OM. And of course its amazing. Hard for me to handle honestly.
So yeah .. I have some damage that I have been working on, things I need to deal with .. was doing alot better and then find out she kept a lie/secret for 20+ years I wonder what other lies, what other secrets .. do I even know this person at all?
Let's break this down...
-MLC Spew, yeah, my stbxw knew right where to stick the knife. So looking back to your "marital relations" before the "medical" condition...what is the reality there?
When I looked back, the reality was that it was good, very good.
Things I could have done better? Yup. And I went on a tear learning everything I could, for reconciliation or new woman.
You have control there, Cali, you CAN do something useful with this time in that dept.
-Equipment? Nothing you can do there, we all got what nature gave us. BUT.... see up there ^^^^ to use it better, and learn what women want, in and out of the bedroom.
and deep down its the thing I think has her hooked on him, again
Mind reading
More likely? She is addicted to the momentary escape from her depression, etc. My stbxw said as much about her OMs this spring/summer. I posted it on my thread.
The other item is .. we had gone 3+ years without sex (Due to what was a "medical condition" according to her)...then .. BD and Separation .. 3 months later she has sex with OM. And of course its amazing. Hard for me to handle honestly.
As someone who went 3 years without, I can't imagine how it could NOT be "amazing"...wouldn't it be for you right now???
Think about it.
We were each others first, I lived my entire life thinking we had only been with each other. And Bamm ... she told me she thinks this is where she got the STD
I know that stings, A LOT.
Your illusion is destroyed, that is always difficult. The life you thought you had, well, wasn't.
Does that take away the REALITY of your M? All those years?
So yeah .. I have some damage that I have been working on, things I need to deal with .. was doing alot better and then find out she kept a lie/secret for 20+ years I wonder what other lies, what other secrets .. do I even know this person at all?
You have no secrets? Never lied? Even "little white ones"?
Idk about you, but I couldn't cast that stone...
Keep digging...
Let's break this down...
-MLC Spew, yeah, my stbxw knew right where to stick the knife. So looking back to your "marital relations" before the "medical" condition...what is the reality there?
When I looked back, the reality was that it was good, very good.
Things I could have done better? Yup. And I went on a tear learning everything I could, for reconciliation or new woman.
You have control there, Cali, you CAN do something useful with this time in that dept.
-Equipment? Nothing you can do there, we all got what nature gave us. BUT.... see up there ^^^^ to use it better, and learn what women want, in and out of the bedroom.
Sex was always one of our hot topic buttons, I was HD and she was more LD, even dating was an issue, one she promised would be better once married as she had the Catholic guilt thing .... truth is looking at that. I was like a dog always chasing her, it was not romantic .. nor would I say we did alot of "making love" a regret I have now after alot of the soul searching I have done in the past year. So yeah .. I have been looking at that issue and my contributions however at the moment not much I can do with that ... but I get excactly where you are coming from.
Mind reading
More likely? She is addicted to the momentary escape from her depression, etc. My stbxw said as much about her OMs this spring/summer. I posted it on my thread.
As someone who went 3 years without, I can't imagine how it could NOT be "amazing"...wouldn't it be for you right now???
Think about it.
Point taken ... and you are right .. I do think she has re-written that part of our history too ... we did enjoy good sex at one point.
I know that stings, A LOT.
Your illusion is destroyed, that is always difficult. The life you thought you had, well, wasn't.
Does that take away the REALITY of your M? All those years?
No it doesn't .. and like I said .. I know I have to stop the stinkin-thinkin ... and for the most part I do a good job at that ... last night was a rough night with the anxiety of knowing I would have to discuss things with W this morning .. but as I said .. it went without an argument so I will take that as a good positive.
You have no secrets? Never lied? Even "little white ones"?
Idk about you, but I couldn't cast that stone...
Keep digging...
Oh I am no saint .. I have realized that, and I said during my prayer walk yesterday if I was a good man/father/husband she might have felt a bit more safe to come to me .. however I do feel this MLC would have happened ... just not sure to this degree.
Leads to a question .. are there MLC degree's ... some worse than others .. maybe things trigger them into more craziness than ones who feel safe at home with the spouse.
I even went on to let myself be humored by envisioning what kind of train wreck would happen if two married people hit MLC at the same time .... warm up that popcorn!!
TSquared
I would like to thank you, the things you ask, the deep questions like above .. these are things I have to deal with .. and doing this, looking at them and confronting them is how I grow from this. I really appreciate your help .. and others who chime in ... I am and will be forever grateful regardless of my marital status as you are saving ME .. I know I will stand tall and know I have done all I can. I may be wrong but I do view what W is going through as a mental illness ... she has always had bouts with depression, I was not always there, did not always listen, was not always dealing with it properly .. maybe in a way this is my way/chance to correct that. Or maybe I am just as crazy, who knows.
I recall a fight we had about 5 years ago .. she had threatened to leave me, in a rage I told her "There is the door, you find any guy who can put up with your chit I will shake his hand" ... She actually laughed .. as did I , she admitted she was not easy, and I told her I wouldn't want her any other way ... funny how I actually miss those fights .. the ones where you make up after.
I may be wrong but I do view what W is going through as a mental illness ... she has always had bouts with depression, I was not always there, did not always listen, was not always dealing with it properly .. maybe in a way this is my way/chance to correct that. Or maybe I am just as crazy, who knows.
Personally, and as my stbx had similar, I agree on the mental illness view.
And you are not crazy...NOT trying, NOT learning, NOT growing, staying stuck, becoming bitter???
That is crazy... imo...
Oh I am no saint .. I have realized that, and I said during my prayer walk yesterday if I was a good man/father/husband she might have felt a bit more safe to come to me .. however I do feel this MLC would have happened ... just not sure to this degree.
Leads to a question .. are there MLC degree's ... some worse than others .. maybe things trigger them into more craziness than ones who feel safe at home with the spouse.
As long as you just speculate on that for fun and giggles only... imo, there is no way to tell if it would have been worse, better, or the same, if you had done, X, Y or Z.
The useful part of that speculation is to identify what about YOU you want to fix in the here and now. And it sounds like you are... just don't stay there too long...
Do me a favor?
Go over to Shining's threads, there's a little exercise there that I asked her to do, one that really helped me.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2488871#Post2488871It has some list making and such...
Oh I am no saint .. I have realized that, and I said during my prayer walk yesterday if I was a good man/father/husband she might have felt a bit more safe to come to me .. however I do feel this MLC would have happened ... just not sure to this degree.
Leads to a question .. are there MLC degree's ... some worse than others .. maybe things trigger them into more craziness than ones who feel safe at home with the spouse.
As long as you just speculate on that for fun and giggles only... imo, there is no way to tell if it would have been worse, better, or the same, if you had done, X, Y or Z.
The useful part of that speculation is to identify what about YOU you want to fix in the here and now. And it sounds like you are... just don't stay there too long...
Do me a favor?
Go over to Shining's threads, there's a little exercise there that I asked her to do, one that really helped me.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2488871#Post2488871It has some list making and such...
Will do ... was reading your sitch ... some similarities there I can relate with .. looks like I have weekend homework!!
Hey Cal. My bud T2 is kinda special. Dont tell him I wrote that, though...might go to his head. LOL! I watched him walk his journey. He can tell you I can be a pain in the as$ ,but, only cuz I care.
So, I am going to pick apart your convo a bit, if thats ok.
... I told her he overheard her talking to someone on the phone, I calmly but sternly told her I would hope if there is something concerning our son she is having trouble with that I would be the first to be called/involved ... I do not feel comfortable with anyone but her and I parenting our child. (OM implied here but not mentioned)
Not so sure I would have told her that. For a couple of reasons...first because it was something your son confided in you and secondly she can talk to anyone she wants to talk to. You arent in charge of monitoring her calls. I have spoken to a friend regarding my son.
... she was kind of reeling, said she could not recall who she was talking to .. that she does ask Mary for advice .. I validated saying .. told her that's fine, she has a boy the same age and I am sure she could be a useful resource in many cases
Um, see above. Sorry, but, you she doesnt have to get it ok'd by you. .
, but no one knows S better than me, and he shares his feelings with me so I know what is going on with him ... no one else does
kinda insinuating that you are the better parent because your son ONLY shares with YOU, ya know?
"trust is hard to regain when its lost, you have to be consistent .. and with everything you are going through I am sure its hard to be that way"
Cal, that was a judgement statement and again, you are telling her what she needs to do.
(She must be really struggling here with funds ... guessing the MLC lifestyle has caught up with her)
careful there ^^^.
Maybe I see that as a glimmer of hope.
and there ^^^. Not because there isnt one, because there always is...but its best to not look there right now.
Cal, you are doing really well. This is such hard stuff. I can feel that you are feeling used and confused by that.
You dont always need to say yes to her. You dont always have to include her or be there for her. You do have to live your life and let her live the one she has chosen for now.
You have to allow her to figure stuff out, Cal, on her own. You keep giving her the answers. She needs to find them or she stays stuck.
Ur ... ugh ... ok it really stinks when you point it out like THAT!!!
I am a fixer .. even though as I was talking I thought:
1: I can not help her relationship with S thats her .. I was just letting her know whats going on.
2: She can talk to who ever she wants about S (I agree) ... but it did upset me if that person is OM (MY issue not hers)
3: Ok .. I admit .. I guess deep down and currently I do feel like a better parent, only because she is this MLC thing she has become ... I need to stop thinking that.
You are right .. and I know it .. I feel like I am 8 and not wanting to admit you know whats best for me .. but deep down I know it
How do I stop "fixing" .. and "Judging" .. I do not want to be that nor do that ... practice I suppose .. and post here and get this type of feedback and keep pounding that nail into my thick skull.
Again .. I will need these 2x4's smacked into my stubborn brain, I feel like Jeff Spicoli (Fast Times at Ridgemont High) .. "My Dad has an awesome set of tools .. I can fix it" ... but I can't .. I am just a MLC-LBS stoner ... lol.
Oh those UR fuzz coated 2x4's.... good times, good times...
Practice, and changing your mind set about all this, seeing it differently (sometimes from W's point of view)...you are getting there...
Coming from another fixer: The only way to stop fixing is to be very aware of what you are saying and how you are saying it. Detaching really helped me resist the urge to step in and fix whatever the problem of the day was.
Look at it this way: The longer you keep fixing the longer the MLC will last and the easier it will be for your W to stay in the sitch she is in.
Hey T...they were coated in fur and with love.
You know, Cal....you are ok.
So, here's the deal. I get that you are a fixer. I do. I lived with one for 25 years. Here's the thing about that. YOU CANT FIX THIS.
I know that when my h would do that to me, I allowed it to make me feel small and incapable. His intentions were good. He wanted to help. But....
I promise you that she needs to do this on her own. It will not work otherwise.
Her relationship with her son is hers to forge. Your job is to cause no harm to it.
Yea, about who she was talking with...you figured that out based on one line told to you by a seven year old. And then you took that info and threw it at her. Even if it was him, nothing you can do about it.
Maybe you are the better parent. Do you want her to feel that?
The way to stop fixing and judging is to do what you are doing...digging in and working through stuff.
My xh said and did some horrific things. But one of the things I remember so clearly was this. I was upset about something that happened with our son. It was a conversation he and I had. He said some things he shouldnt have..so did I. Son called xh and told him. He called me and said, "I know that you dont understand what you are doing and that sometimes you say the wrong things, but, you really need to do a better job of handling all of this."
I will never, ever forget how those words made me feel. Even though I know deep down they werent true and that he was in no position to judge me.
The truth of it is that no one is better than anyone else. We all have our issues. We all have things we could do better.
To me, the ultimate act of love is to lovingly let go. It is saying, I trust in God and love you enough to want you to walk your journey. It is saying that even though I hurt for you, I cannot do it for you.
This MLC stuff is hard, Cal. All of it. Their part and your part. The thing of it is, that you can only control yours. No matter how much you want to control her part...you cant and you shouldnt.
This is her journey. The hope is that one day she makes it out the other side whole. That may or may not happen. That is the truth of it. Either way, you have yours to walk.
So that if you have a choice to make in the future, it is from a place of strength. No matter what, she will be in your life forever because of your child.
Let her do this, Cal. Trust me, she knows you love her. You just cant fix her. Mainly because you didnt break her.
I know I can not fix it .. there was a time . not long ago I thought I could, because .. well .. you should see my amazing tool box. No I get it ... and you are spot on even if your 2x4 looks like a woolly mammoth's trunk. I welcome it because until you all pointed things out I thought I was simply saying the right things. (They were right to me anyways .. and I thought I was helping .... yanno in my own way of throwing gasoline on the fire)
I know she must go through this journey, and I Pray for her several times a day, as of late I just want her to be rid of the demons and find peace, even if that does not include me .... and I do mean that. I would prefer the journey leads "home" but I am starting to look at that hill that must be climbed and I am not certain at this point we could make it .. but no need ... that hill is way off .. we both have our own journey to walk for now and that's where my focus is.
Ok .. New Goals:
1: Stop Fixing!!
2: STFU and LISTEN
3: No Arguing/ No Matter
4: Buy lint brush to remove the Wooly Mammoth 2x4 residue
T2'd I did the top 20 list, was not as easy as my ego initially thought it would be ... lol
Cal, you and your toolbox...LOL! I do have a reputation of tempering my 2 x 4's, but I am not above getting out a hammer if I need to. Just ask the boys here.
I happen to love home repairs and can dry wall with the best of them.
I do want you to know something. I can see that you in no way
mean to throw gas on the fire. LOL! For me, intent is important.
Yea, no need to look at that hill now. It could look way different later on. That isnt a decision you need to make today.
Oh, by the way, lint brushes are on sale at Target..just sayin...
Here's a secret between you and I...sshhh...T2 was kinda stubborn at times..hee hee.
Pffffffttt !!! WhatEVER....
T2 was being
very nice.
: )
You are choosing to do this. You cannot be used if you're allowing this to happen.
It's passive aggressive BS behaviour if you feel resentful for doing something of your own accord but blaming someone else for it.
Better equipment...makes me laugh. All I can think about is a high chrome polish jack rabbit personal massager with 16 different modes.
J3B I just spit out my water laughing so hard!!! To be honest it might be b/c I purchased one of those once I saw this was going to be such a long journey....
Cali- I have done and said so many similar things. I kept thinking that if I shared MY path I wasn't fixing, just being helpful. Ummmm, duh, I was fooling myself!! ( duh meant for me as I'm very psychologically oriented but stubborn as he!!- fun combination).
I finally had to just stop talking. And for awhile I actually even pushed him away when he tried to talk to me. Prob not a good idea but I just couldn't deal- would get so frustrated and couldn't keep my mouth shut!
I think I'm getting better. The more I work on abandonment and inner child issues the more my anger stage dissipates.
Are you reading any particular books or going to IC to delve into your stuff? Not judging- just asking. I'm stuck in many of the same places you are. It's painful but necessary I think or we won't complete our part of the journey.
Leads to a question .. are there MLC degree's ... some worse than others .. maybe things trigger them into more craziness than ones who feel safe at home with the spouse.
I even went on to let myself be humored by envisioning what kind of train wreck would happen if two married people hit MLC at the same time .... warm up that popcorn!!
Yeah, there are degrees. Many seem to be aspiring for the black belt double-masters degree
If you want to see what that looks like, check the archives. If they have not been purged, there are several stories of just that. And no, it's not pretty. I think a more interesting story is that of two MLCr's that leave their families and get together. That's more popcorn worthy
You got some great advice and even had J3B share some of his personal thinking (scary); he seems fixated on toys by the look of it
Give yourself more space, Cali. You're doing very well, but your perspective still seems to be a a little off. I'm thinking with some more space, things will become much clearer for you. They have already, but still seems a little fog is in the way.
By the way, did you get that clean bill of health?
AJ
J3B I just spit out my water laughing so hard!!! To be honest it might be b/c I purchased one of those once I saw this was going to be such a long journey....
Cali- I have done and said so many similar things. I kept thinking that if I shared MY path I wasn't fixing, just being helpful. Ummmm, duh, I was fooling myself!! ( duh meant for me as I'm very psychologically oriented but stubborn as he!!- fun combination).
I finally had to just stop talking. And for awhile I actually even pushed him away when he tried to talk to me. Prob not a good idea but I just couldn't deal- would get so frustrated and couldn't keep my mouth shut!
I think I'm getting better. The more I work on abandonment and inner child issues the more my anger stage dissipates.
Are you reading any particular books or going to IC to delve into your stuff? Not judging- just asking. I'm stuck in many of the same places you are. It's painful but necessary I think or we won't complete our part of the journey.
Yeah ... I did not realize sharing a portion of how I was dealing would be considered "fixing" ... no one would have pointed that out ... hence how this board has been such a blessing. I see it, and now its something I am focused on removing.
I have been going to an IC, but its more focused on rebuilding me, GAL, 180's ... finding my self esteem ... yanno that stuff that is completely stripped from you ... feels like that dream you have and you are naked and embarrassed. I do plan on bringing this up soon. I have been really thinking aobut it .. my father was always gone, the start of the abandonment issues .. then W "Dear John'd" me about 2 years into us dating as I was in the Gulf War. Things to look into that's for sure.
Leads to a question .. are there MLC degree's ... some worse than others .. maybe things trigger them into more craziness than ones who feel safe at home with the spouse.
I even went on to let myself be humored by envisioning what kind of train wreck would happen if two married people hit MLC at the same time .... warm up that popcorn!!
Yeah, there are degrees. Many seem to be aspiring for the black belt double-masters degree
If you want to see what that looks like, check the archives. If they have not been purged, there are several stories of just that. And no, it's not pretty. I think a more interesting story is that of two MLCr's that leave their families and get together. That's more popcorn worthy
You got some great advice and even had J3B share some of his personal thinking (scary); he seems fixated on toys by the look of it
Give yourself more space, Cali. You're doing very well, but your perspective still seems to be a a little off. I'm thinking with some more space, things will become much clearer for you. They have already, but still seems a little fog is in the way.
By the way, did you get that clean bill of health?
AJ
I asked about the degrees because reading ... sure there does seem to be a difference in the way a male and a female deal with it .. similar but does seem to be certain differences. And reading so many of the stories here I just get a feel as I read that someone may be a 6 out of 10 .. others an 8 and a few more like a 4 ... none good, but read long enough and you realize you have it better than some and worse than others.
Thank you for asking.... The headaches I think were stress and vision related ... the headaches are not nearly as bad... though I have noticed if I have a high stress day, they are there ... that I can deal with.
So bit of an Update ... and just adding more to the crazy week.
So W asks me Friday when I will have time for our tax talk. (We got a refund .. then I looked at the Docs, Accountant did not put in her wages (Maybe he is in MLC too .. who knows how one misses that) .... so now we owe. I told her I had plans Saturday, she was mildly upset asking me when I would make finaces a priority ... I told her we could set up a time this weekend, she asked about the football game I was taking S to ... I invited her but was more of a "I am going regardless .. you are welcome to join" type thing .. I really did not think she would join.
So Saturday morning she TM asking if we could go earlier .. she wanted to go to the gift shop, This is where she went to college, and where we spent a good deal of time while we were dating .. we also got married there. I replied that I would arrive an hour earlier, I went and had my car detailed .. got a haircut .. was actually excited to go to this game, small college, just a cool vibe.
I arrive, she greets me with a smile and a nice hug ... was unexpected .. but very nice to start the day this way. We load up and drive down .. about 45 minutes, the conversation was actually fun and light hearted. I can not explain it .. I was PMA .. but even then .. it was like 4 years ago .. she was really being nice and enjoying the day. We went to the University, the Gift shop, went out to lunch, then the game (they won on a 45 yard bomb with 4 seconds left .. winning the conference... and yes my W missed it as she was in the bathroom .. lol), and after she asked if we could go to mass. I was floored, So Mass .. then went home and talked about S and a few things he is going through, decided to take him home with me.
Saturday was the first day I can recall in a LONG time, nothing forced, felt ... dare I say normal. I constantly reminded myself to STFU, listen, don't fix ... I TM her all the pics I took on my phone, she told me she was not feeling well (she mentioned this during the day) I thanked her for the day and told her I hoped she felt better. She TM this morning, still light ... will meet up a bit to talk the taxes, run some errands with S, go out to lunch with him ... just enjoying a break from the MLC drama honestly.
In the past ... I would be all over this .. thinking its all fixed and better, I know better now!!! Just taking this upswing for what its worth, which is not much. She TM last night mentioning that her mind is slipping and it concerns her, she also was completely obsessed as we took pics that they were far enough away to not show "the wrinkels" ... the past few months this has been a big theme, age, how old do I look, blah blah blah. I was just happy she went to church with us, I think its been a month since she has gone as far as I know. I am not sure what brought on this change in her, I welcome it for as long as it decides to stay, was a small peek at the woman I married and it was really similar to that feeling you get when you look at an old picture and have that nostalgic feeling, and a smile.
I will continue to work on my stuff as I have, funny .. I have no expectations from what happened yesterday, none .. was a nice day and I appreciate that. Still work to do on me, focus on not letting the highs get to high nor the lows get to low.
I asked about the degrees because reading ... sure there does seem to be a difference in the way a male and a female deal with it .. similar but does seem to be certain differences. And reading so many of the stories here I just get a feel as I read that someone may be a 6 out of 10 .. others an 8 and a few more like a 4 ... none good, but read long enough and you realize you have it better than some and worse than others.
Fair enough. I made light of it because, well, it's different for everyone. And comparing one to the other is not really helpful except to help you keep perspective. You already seem to have perspective - some are "worse" than others.
Then again, how do you define "worse" vs. "easier"? My idea and yours will be as varied as the MLC episodes.
Watch out for how you handle stress. If migraines/headaches are how your body reacts to stress that can be rough. I know for me the doc says stress has affected my vision. I can't imagine what would have stressed me in the last few years, but I'll go with his diagnosis (two of them really) for now.
Stress is a killer. You might want to be sure to bring it up with the IC when you next talk.
Glad the weekend was decent and relaxing. Nice to get those times now and again...
AJ
Meant to mention - if you want to hear about various degrees of MLC still, you may want to look in the archives for Job's posts and her thoughts on that. If I recall correctly, she mentioned some things about that.
AJ
Thank you AJ ... was more of a curiosity/observation really than anything ... nothing that would help me with my sitch.
So Update. As I kind of guessed ... Saturday was just a nice pleasant dare I say normal day. Sunday I had S, had him doing chores and his homework, W TM me so we can meet and go over taxes. We meet up and the paperwork did not match up, this is a hot topic area (Money) for us .. I kept it light and was calm. We ended up agreeing we needed more information, decided to just put it aside and have lunch. After lunch S wanted to go to Target, she said she had a coupon, but we had to spend $100 .... I was not looking at dropping that much, but between the two of us maybe. So we get in the cars ... I ask her to roll down her window to make sure we are going to the same store ... This evidently is a trigger for her, not sure why/what happened but my motion of "Roll your window down" brought up bad memories for her. I apologized that it made her feel that way but told her in no way did I mean anything ill-willed by it. She was not having any over it so I decided ... ok .. I am not going to follow her around and try to make it up, if she has an issue with THAT, I will just let her be. I told S to grab his item so I could pay for it and we would be on our way... he said goodbye to her as did I and we left.
She TM that she is sensitive about how I treat her, went on to how she will not allow anyone to treat her that way .. I just ignored the TM, holding to my boundary of no more fighting, no more negative type talk via TM.
Later around 5-6 she TM asking to talk to S, typically this happens around 8, so ofcourse I assume she must have plans .... I caught myself thinking OM, decided to let it go .. she will do what ever she will do. So S calls after we had dinner, I was watching Netflix on the computer and S hand me the phone .. they were on Facetime and she asked to talk to me ... she was in her old green robe ... looked really depressed. I asked if she was ok, she told me yes (Ya know .. the non-convincing type) .. then went on to tell me she was lonely, went on to tell me what I did sent her into a depression ... again I told her I honestly just wanted to find out what store we were going to. She started getting more upset and ended up hanging up. I know I can not fix this .. just hate seeing her like this.... but was relieved in a strange way she was lonely ... not sure what is going on with OM.
So .. this morning I drop S off .. she was wearing a dress that I have told her she looks great in (Kills me to see her in it honestly) So I say goodbye to S , wish her a good day and am about to leave but she stops me, I ask if she is ok, she asks me how I handle being alone. I told her its hard .. Then she starts in on how she is a mess, she is confused and does not know what she wants. She says she makes a decision and then I get mad so then she has to change her mind. Then she said something like .. "If I decide to do this then later dont want it then what?" I was confused and told her I really did not want to talk about it and ruin a day. Trying to get out of any R talk that was about to happen. Then she explained to me how she felt nothing for me ... was starting to trust me again but after yesterday it just brought back all these horrible memories. I told her that I felt she put me in a box, and just waits for any small thing to remind her of the past just to keep me in that box, I have tried very hard not to be that person anymore, the old Cali is dead, as is out old relationship and old marriage. She said she has enjoyed the things we have done but the day to day stuff will revert back to the old ways and that is what she does not want ... then she said she just wants to be friends, feels nothing just has the memories.
I get she is confused .. and maybe thats good .. maybe not. No D was brought up .. she asked about the holidays saying we had not made a decision... I told her I had in fact decided Thanksgiving already, I wanted her to take S up to her parents because I want him surrounded by family ... she made a comment that there is not a family, I told her its the closest thing to family he is going to get, because just being alone with his father is not what I want for him, family is important and I want him surrounded by as many family members as possible. She told me "You never wanted that before" ... I softly told her .. alot of things have changed, I wished her a good day and left.
Other than that .. just another day on the MLC roller coaster.
Thoughts as I am obsessing over the weekends events.
I am not detached
I am to available for her
She is not afraid of losing me .. because I am always right there.
She is going through her depression, I can not help her, can't fix it.
She is confused, I can not help her make a choice.
I am afraid of dropping the rope and losing her ... but I know I have to
She only talks D when she is upset.
I need to get back to my center, I had it ... got reeled back in somehow.
I was confused and told her I really did not want to talk about it and ruin a day. Trying to get out of any R talk that was about to happen. Then she explained to me how she felt nothing for me ... was starting to trust me again but after yesterday it just brought back all these horrible memories. I told her that I felt she put me in a box, and just waits for any small thing to remind her of the past just to keep me in that box, I have tried very hard not to be that person anymore, the old Cali is dead, as is out old relationship and old marriage.
Of course you don't want to initiate any R talks, but if she does you
listen. I think it's a good sign when our spouse feels comfortable enough to open up to us. Even when it's stuff we would rather not hear.
Unless it's pure spew, you put on your detachment jacket and let her get it out. If she can't do it with you then it will be with someone else.
Best thing we can do is let them know we hear them. And interact in a manner that allows them to feel not judged, but safe enough to continue talking. Can you see how your responses may have stifled that?
Back to the validation cheat sheet for you!
You will SHOW her the new Cali, no more telling her for now.
And her being confused is normal... and good. It means she's not ready to pull the plug on the M, and you have that gift of time for a turnaround. What you do with that time is your choice. Bust On!
Of course you don't want to initiate any R talks, but if she does you listen. I think it's a good sign when our spouse feels comfortable enough to open up to us. Even when it's stuff we would rather not hear.
Unless it's pure spew, you put on your detachment jacket and let her get it out. If she can't do it with you then it will be with someone else.
Ok, well then good .. because I think I did "ok" there. I have not ever brought up R, and have been doing alot better with STFU and listening to her. And I do see her confusion as a good thing ... thought about it the other day thinking .. she has not pushed really hard for D. But hearing her today .. seems to be a push for the new year to have a decision .. seems MLC script from what I read ... like the D will heal her magically.
Best thing we can do is let them know we hear them. And interact in a manner that allows them to feel not judged, but safe enough to continue talking. Can you see how your responses may have stifled that?
Back to the validation cheat sheet for you!
You will SHOW her the new Cali, no more telling her for now.
And her being confused is normal... and good. It means she's not ready to pull the plug on the M, and you have that gift of time for a turnaround. What you do with that time is your choice. Bust On!
I can see that ... man .. this Validation along with the STFU is pretty tough ... baby steps .. I will keep reminding myself on these things .. ya know .. old dog new tricks and all ... I can see how she has a hard time trusting , I have a long way still to go, but I do feel I am at least on the correct off ramp to the right path .. I hope .. lol
I think the changes I have made ... especially spiritually has her confused, some-days I am surprised myself .. but thankful, I know I would never have been able to make any of the changes I have with out God helping me out and showing me the way here and there.
Another change is the family thing, When I told her I wanted S to be with her family (Mine is 1300 miles away) even if that meant me spending the holidays without him, I wanted that for him, and I meant it.
Thoughts as I am obsessing over the weekends events.
I am not detached
I am to available for her
She is not afraid of losing me .. because I am always right there.
She is going through her depression, I can not help her, can't fix it.
She is confused, I can not help her make a choice.
I am afraid of dropping the rope and losing her ... but I know I have to
She only talks D when she is upset.
I need to get back to my center, I had it ... got reeled back in somehow.
So....how do you change those things ??
How is it advantageous to change those things ??
How do you hold on to those changes once that you make them ??
I can see how she has a hard time trusting , I have a long way still to go, but I do feel I am at least on the correct off ramp to the right path .. I hope .. lol
She has a hard time trusting and believing them, because every time she NEEDS you to be that old Cali, you oblige her with him...
AND....
At some level, you are STILL trying to be the new Cali, to impress her, and fix/win her back...
Instead of just being the new Cali, for you.
And whatever happens...will happen...
All I can ask, is, why do you allow that ???
Cause, until you can understand the why, it will keep repeating...
So....how do you change those things ??
How is it advantageous to change those things ??
How do you hold on to those changes once that you make them ??
I was doing better, then Saturday .. it was just nice and even though I could see the train was still firmly on the tracks I fooled myself into thinking it might stop at my station ... I knew better, this is far from over.
I need to keep pluggin along, I have made so many changes that have held, I do struggle with the new ones just as I did the old, I will keep working, that's how they stick .... and no I am not doing it for her, its for me, I feel better being a better person, I am doing this for me, these are changes that will make me the man I desire to be and I will not stop short of that ... I do accept any change that happens overnight is not a change worth making. The good changes take work, perseverance and faith.
She has a hard time trusting and believing them, because every time she NEEDS you to be that old Cali, you oblige her with him...
AND....
At some level, you are STILL trying to be the new Cali, to impress her, and fix/win her back...
Instead of just being the new Cali, for you.
And whatever happens...will happen...
All I can ask, is, why do you allow that ???
Cause, until you can understand the why, it will keep repeating...
The Old Cali would have erupted with anger .. I have done a good job eliminating that part from my life. I am not putting on a front, I made some big changes ... not to win her back, there have been times over the past year I honestly accepted my M to be over. The changes I have made were because of long looks in the mirror and not caring for what I seen, that's not who I was ... it was who I became over the past few years because of things in my life not going "my" way.
The changes I have made .. the big ones .. have held firm for a good .. 6 months or more. Now .. for me I realize I need to work on the little things, just listening, not fixing, I caught myself yesterday after I apologized once, I let it go .. if she wants to rehash and start bringing up past events (That I have also apologized profusely for in the past) That's on her, I will not rehash and argue just to argue any longer, there is no benefit in it ... That for me .. huge 180 .. and one I intend to hold to ... however its also a new one where I was close to slipping on.
Hiya Cal...man, I see you trying so hard...and you are right there...Here's the thing. The changes when they are for you - you dont need to question them. You dont need to wonder or hope. You just be. It is just who you are.
So, about that convo.
So we get in the cars ... I ask her to roll down her window to make sure we are going to the same store ... This evidently is a trigger for her, not sure why/what happened but my motion of "Roll your window down" brought up bad memories for her.
Let me ask you something. And this is for me, too. Was there a possibility of two different Targets you could have gone to?
I ask because my xh would have done the same thing, even though there really is only one target near us. The other one is way over the other side of town that we would have no reason to go to.
so ofcourse I assume she must have plans .... I caught myself thinking OM.
Yea, stop going there..
.
she was in her old green robe ... looked really depressed. I asked if she was ok.
You do that alot. ^^^ I would stop saying it all the time.
then went on to tell me she was lonely, went on to tell me what I did sent her into a depression ... again I told her I honestly just wanted to find out what store we were going to.
Yea, explaining that to her didnt work the first time you did it, right? So, you should just be listening,yea?
She started getting more upset and ended up hanging up.
because in her mind, you were explaining yourself again and she wanted it to be about how she was feeling.
I know I can not fix this .. just hate seeing her like this..
I know you do. But she has to work through this on her own or she stays stuck.
.. but was relieved in a strange way she was lonely ...
Really?
she asked about the holidays saying we had not made a decision... I told her I had in fact decided Thanksgiving already, I wanted her to take S up to her parents because I want him surrounded by family.
So, YOU made the decision about Thanksgiving that he would go to HER family?
.
... she made a comment that there is not a family, I told her its the closest thing to family he is going to get, because just being alone with his father is not what I want for him, family is important and I want him surrounded by as many family members as possible.
Guilt much?
She told me "You never wanted that before" ... I softly told her .. alot of things have changed, I wished her a good day and left.
Cal, you keep telling her about changes. Just live the changes.
Hiya Cal...man, I see you trying so hard...and you are right there...Here's the thing. The changes when they are for you - you dont need to question them. You dont need to wonder or hope. You just be. It is just who you are.
So, about that convo.
LOL ... so do I finally get that raise .. I have been DBusting my A$$ off over here!!! I am just focusing on a sermon that ironically was playing today. .. Galations 6:9 "Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up."
Let me ask you something. And this is for me, too. Was there a possibility of two different Targets you could have gone to?
I ask because my xh would have done the same thing, even though there really is only one target near us. The other one is way over the other side of town that we would have no reason to go to.
Yes, there was the one a couple exits south .. however I know she is very fond of the one more inland and just a bit further. I have been really aware of things she prefers .. hence why I wanted to know which store, certainly was there no thought in my head thinking ... "Hey .. I need to stir chit up here"
I know .. I know ... I quickly got out of that place in my head ... there is progress but like I read Jack.. he put it as there are still paper cuts and no need to pour pickle juice on em. ... I am not healed fom that sting admittedly.
.
she was in her old green robe ... looked really depressed. I asked if she was ok.
You do that alot. ^^^ I would stop saying it all the time.
Ok .. note4d .. just an observation was all. I will stop asking her if she is Ok ... especially when I know she is not, just thought it was a way to STFU and listen to her, caring like a neighbor ... was my thought process here.
Yea, explaining that to her didnt work the first time you did it, right? So, you should just be listening,yea?
because in her mind, you were explaining yourself again and she wanted it to be about how she was feeling.
Crap ... you are right .. ok ... I need to take out the duct tape out of that cool tool box of mine. ugh .. ok .. live and learn.
I know you do. But she has to work through this on her own or she stays stuck.
Really?
So, YOU made the decision about Thanksgiving that he would go to HER family?
Guilt much?
Cal, you keep telling her about changes. Just live the changes.
Yeah ... I am seeing a trend here, and you have put a spotlight on it. I know how important family is to her, even though right now she has withdrawn a bit from them. Especially her mother from what she told me Saturday, and the "I will talk to her when hell freezes over, or Donkeys fly" remark (I actually asked if a flying Donkey was a poor mans unicorn .. she laughed pretty hard ... guess ya had to be there but it was kinda funny at the time. Anyways ... I am using family and religion as a way to get her to "come back .. and this can not and will not work, I know that .. but its like subconsciously I seem to do this, it really is not my intent.
I was not really into the family (her family) thing .. nor was much of a church person. Now I go twice a week to church .. not for her .. for me, and I would LOVE to have the big celebrations with her and her family only because I know I screwed up and missed out. Too little to late.
I need to talk WAY less. but feel the need to defend myself now .. you are right .. she sees the changes, I need not tell her. Just as if she were to change .. I would not take her word for it either.
Thanks uR ... your perspective is very much appreciated
A raise...you kiddin? LOL!
Let me ask you something. Why do you think your w reacted as she did to your putting the window down and wanting to ask which store?
I told you I went through a depression. I cannot tell you how much it bothered me when people would ask, "Are your ok?". I know why you ask, just want you to know why you shouldnt. In my mind, there were two reasons why it bothered me. One was I didnt want to be reminded that I wasnt ok. And two I thought the people who were in my life should know how I felt.
Maybe that wasnt sound thinking, but, I wasnt in a sound mind.
So, when you defend yourself, it
implies guilt. When she talks as she does, she just wants to be heard. So, just hear her. You dont need to say much at all.
You know, Cal, what's really important here is that you become who you want to be. Because the truth is no one thing or one conversation is going to make or break this. She has to go through it. She has to do the work. Thats the bottom line.
So, while I try to show you how she may interpret stuff, what matters more is that you see the things about yourself that you say you want to change.
As I said, I know fixers. For me, when my xh tried to do that, often I allowed it to make me feel as if he thought I wasnt capable. Maybe he did think that, maybe he didnt. But thats how it felt.
Oh and yea, duct tape...it comes in all different colors and patterns, so, you can match it to your clothes.
Well, I am a girl after all.
.
So, when you defend yourself, it implies guilt.
Yes. Yes it does. Almost like it lends weight to an accusation, right?
When she talks as she does, she just wants to be heard. So, just hear her. You dont need to say much at all.
You know, Cal, what's really important here is that you become who you want to be
Can't stress that enough. Know why? Because you have to live with yourself. I've never been depressed, but I've seen it enough in others. I can tell it would not be fun, nor would I want to be reminded of it nor would I want to see somebody I care about hurting. It would just add salt to the wound.
She is testing in some ways, Cali. And as long as you are not YOU and only YOU there will be no passing the test. Ironically, you may have to lose her to be YOU. Given the last several years, that's not something to fear. Being what you think she wants has not worked has it? Her words aren't much use for you. Heck, she may later say she never said any of that. That's how depression works. Fun eh?
Be YOU. The rest will work itself out.
AJ
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A raise...you kiddin? LOL!
Hech no .. I want that raise !! Let me ask you something. Why do you think your w reacted as she did to your putting the window down and wanting to ask which store?
She has lately been obsessed with this thought that I treated her "less than" in our relationship .. its one of the rewritten history things she has done. I never have felt that, thought it, much less ever said anything to the effect, I think this is stuff coming out from her child hood, youngest of 5 and one of her complaints about her mom was this very thing .. nothing was good enough, she never felt like she did enough even though she has been successful. I told you I went through a depression. I cannot tell you how much it bothered me when people would ask, "Are your ok?". I know why you ask, just want you to know why you shouldnt. In my mind, there were two reasons why it bothered me. One was I didnt want to be reminded that I wasnt ok. And two I thought the people who were in my life should know how I felt.
Yeah .. and there is some truth to that , I know she is not well/ sad/ depressed ... hard not to ask why .. but I should just let her talk if she feels like talking and not pry .. I will try to stop doing that. Maybe that wasnt sound thinking, but, I wasnt in a sound mind.
So, when you defend yourself, it
implies guilt. When she talks as she does, she just wants to be heard. So, just hear her. You dont need to say much at all.
You know, Cal, what's really important here is that you become who you want to be. Because the truth is no one thing or one conversation is going to make or break this. She has to go through it. She has to do the work. Thats the bottom line.
Yeah and that has been what I have been focused on .. just got caught up in her spin cycle a bit ... forgetting I need to be the rock, do my thing .. which I have been doing for the most part .. ... looking at it I feel like she temp checks me when I get to a certain detach point just to make sure she still has me ... hard to explainSo, while I try to show you how she may interpret stuff, what matters more is that you see the things about yourself that you say you want to change.
As I said, I know fixers. For me, when my xh tried to do that, often I allowed it to make me feel as if he thought I wasnt capable. Maybe he did think that, maybe he didnt. But thats how it felt.
Oh and yea, duct tape...it comes in all different colors and patterns, so, you can match it to your clothes.
Well, I am a girl after all.
.
Yeah ... STFU , listen .. dont fix .. I had the thought today I need to let her go, let her cry it out, work it out .. whatever she needs to do to get through this and even then not sure if there will ever be a M left to fix, I have accepted that .. just need to pull the trigger and let her do this.
Can't stress that enough. Know why? Because you have to live with yourself. I've never been depressed, but I've seen it enough in others. I can tell it would not be fun, nor would I want to be reminded of it nor would I want to see somebody I care about hurting. It would just add salt to the wound.
She is testing in some ways, Cali. And as long as you are not YOU and only YOU there will be no passing the test. Ironically, you may have to lose her to be YOU. Given the last several years, that's not something to fear. Being what you think she wants has not worked has it? Her words aren't much use for you. Heck, she may later say she never said any of that. That's how depression works. Fun eh?
Be YOU. The rest will work itself out.
AJ
Yeah I feel that way too, and I do think I have past a few of these tests as she is more vocal about how confused she is lately ... and I do think I really need to remove myself better. It goes against everything I feel, but I know deep down I must let her get through this .. for her, regardless of where she and I end up in all this .... she needs to finish her journey and I must continue mine.
Losing her ... well I already have honestly .. the girl I loved is a zombie and I am not confident she will ever come back .. in many ways its impossible .. the innocence is gone .. so whatever happens the old M, her and me .. all dead. Only a new life awaits .. future unclear but I know I will be better for all this .. that much I can hang my hat on.
Along these lines, Cali , Sunday, at 5:30 am, Stbxw texts. She knows very well I'm not a morning person, especially on the weekends... She wants to know the AD she took, that seemed to be effective, and where I got her the estroven.
I told her just the facts, skipped asking if she's okay.
"Just the facts ma'am"
It was hard, but it's what she wants. She could have waited til Monday and called her ob/gyn who prescribed them.
Imo, you have to lose the "protector" role. She doesn't want it. And it's not helping you detach. If you are truly giving her up to God, then stop, stop the Charlie church stuff, suggestions, etc and truly let God do his work, get out of Gods way, her way, and, your own way.
Wanna know one of the biggest turn offs? Using your new found spirituality to try to coerce your spouse back. Lording it over their heads, that they are wrong and sinners, tearing the familly apart. I am not saying you do this, but it is an easy path to find yourself on... And that is the path of weakness and pride, thinking you know better than God because you found "Jesus" or "the light", etc.
Just a note of caution there buddy...that's all...I see lots of people fall into that self-righteous EZ-button...
Cal, I asked that question because I wanted you to really think about it.
If you asked my xh if he thought about me the way he treated me, he would tell you no. Yet, it was there everytime he fixed...that sent me a signal. I know now that is one of his love languages, but, it still made me feel the way it did.
Some of that had to do with my childhood. I was never good enough according to my mother. But some of it did have to do with how he acted.
I am going to be honest with you, your need to protect and fix can seem like that to her.
When I was depressed, I did not recover until I wanted to. Didnt matter what anyone said or did, including my h. It actually kept me stuck in it when he or others kept trying to help.
She has to want it.
Take the leap of faith, Cal.
Along these lines, Cali , Sunday, at 5:30 am, Stbxw texts. She knows very well I'm not a morning person, especially on the weekends... She wants to know the AD she took, that seemed to be effective, and where I got her the estroven.
I told her just the facts, skipped asking if she's okay.
"Just the facts ma'am"
It was hard, but it's what she wants. She could have waited til Monday and called her ob/gyn who prescribed them.
Imo, you have to lose the "protector" role. She doesn't want it. And it's not helping you detach. If you are truly giving her up to God, then stop, stop the Charlie church stuff, suggestions, etc and truly let God do his work, get out of Gods way, her way, and, your own way.
Wanna know one of the biggest turn offs? Using your new found spirituality to try to coerce your spouse back. Lording it over their heads, that they are wrong and sinners, tearing the familly apart. I am not saying you do this, but it is an easy path to find yourself on... And that is the path of weakness and pride, thinking you know better than God because you found "Jesus" or "the light", etc.
Just a note of caution there buddy...that's all...I see lots of people fall into that self-righteous EZ-button...
Yeah, I know I have to give short answers and not the essay form ... funny ... I was always a multiple choice kinda guy ... maybe I will just say "C" aloud and laugh on the inside at my brilliance.
You are spot on with the Protector role ... man I have a new-found love/hate relationship at how you all can see into my soul without even getting off your couch..lol ... kinda $suck$ .. give a guy a break .. lol ... just kidding. I am just amazed how much you all can feel and sense, without me spilling my guts on your therapy sofa like I do in IC, and you are straight to the point and give me my homework .. valuable homework to work on ... I trust you all , and know after this I will owe such a huge debt .. regardless of the outcome.
As far as the self righteous thing... I have been very cautious with that, some time ago her sister mentioned to me to me the W actually really liked this change .. ofcourse I used that intel but quickly realized how that went against everything I was trying to be, I did not find God to win my wife back, He found me. I do not preach to her, if she goes to church with me great, if not .. thats ok too, she knows I go twice a week, I do prefer to take my S, as its something we really enjoy together (Maybe he fakes it .lol... but as far as I can tell .. its something he enjoys and we can share),... but as you said .. I do have to remind myself I have given it to him .. once I do this .. my anxiety drops off the charts.
Thanks for that protector role angle .. you are right .. and I have been that way with her as long as I can remember. Might have fuels the "lesser" than issues now that I think of it aloud .. not sure .. but I am certain its not helping.
I see it because I was it.
I see it because I was it.
Yeah ... I have caught on to that, aswell as others. I have spent a good chunk of my time reading .... guilty of searching for the magic bullet that I can load that would snap my W out of it ... then slowly realized that is not the message at all, no one wants to look in the mirror much, especially when it is so much easier to paint the WAS in bad lighting and say "look how messed up they are... the problem has to be them" .... then you realize .. the WAS may never return, even if they do it will be very different. All we can do is work on ourselves ... and wow ... I did not realize I was such a project...lol
Little update ... not much. Dropped S off this morning, W invited me in but I nicely declined ... wished S a good day, as well as her... and promptly left. I was nice, but need to detach.
Its harder to get out of bed in the mornings... paretly because of it being cold .. the other.. well lonliness is setting in, knowing I will be alone for Thanksgivings... still working on getting more social, but trying to do this in the correct scene ... not bars/clubs. I have met some people at church .. not on a hey lets hang out level ... but I have opened up some ... progress .. I was so closed off and it was just W and I for so long .. big mistake ... I do have my sports buddies .. but all married with kids and apparently when you are separated it could be contagious so no one wants to come down with that especially during the holidays .. lol.
So I am mentally preparing for the New Year, I do feel W will push D pretty hard .. this time last year she was completely done with the M, now she is confused according to her, but I still think she will see the D as a way to start 2015 fresh. Will just have to wait and see, I have learned with this MLC, its bad one day and like nothing happened the next.
Hey Cali,
Just wanted to 2nd what the others have said about "fixing", especially when your S is depressed. My W was deeply depressed for several years and I went into "fix it" mode, mainly because with 2 young kids at home I HAD to. What my W saw was me "treating her like a child". Where I saw myself "stepping up" when she was "too sick", she saw me telling her over and over again that she wasn't good enough. Just by doing what needed to be done when she couldn't, she saw me telling her over and over she was "damaged". Of course, I never saw her that way, never once even implied that was the case but again, she was depressed and that was how she was thinking.
She has even told me that one of the reasons she "had" to leave was because I "allowed" her to be depressed. By being there for her when I thought she needed me, to her became a crutch that kept her depressed. Of course all the time I was doing this, she never said that was how she felt. In fact she would thank me and tell me how lucky she was that she had me there to help her, that was just a mask while inside she was actually resenting me. This is something they never talk about when you read up on depression. I became an expert on the subject, reading everything i could about the hows and the whys. No where did it say how the fact that you are there to help your loved one get through it can be seen by the depressed person the way that so many WAS's who suffered from depression can see things this way. This is something that so many of us had to learn the hard way! If just asking your W to roll down the window can turn a good day into a several day depressive bout just proves how sensitive the depressed person can be to this.
I think all of us who have lived with a depressed S have made the same mistakes so don't beat yourself up as you are not alone. It's just something that I think is a MAJOR factor in why they feel they "must" totally walk away from the very person who was there for them when they needed them most.
Matt
Thank you .. and looking back your words really make alot of sense. I actually did think I was doing the right things and being there for her, but like you said I am completely a crutch, granted I felt that was what a good H should do .. but I see how this is counter productive. Seems everything the past few days has been nudging me to completely let go and let her walk her own journey.
Time for me to accept that, try to watch from as far as possible. Ugh .. this is not easy. But its helps her, and honestly it helps me, I still have "ME" to sort out and find ... I can not do this while giving her the amount of energy I have been.
Been thinking about Thanksgivings coming up, I have the house to myself, a few days off from work, from her ... I think I will cook a nice small spread and just be me for a bit, watch some movies, go for a few rides on the bike, clean/organize ... just focus on things I need to get done. 4 days off ... its a welcomed break from the MLC-ville I have been stuck in.
Cal, I wanted to just tell you about letting go. I understand the feeling that if you let go, you feel like you will lose her.
What helped me was thinking of it this way. She is telling you she doesnt want to be married and you, by your words and/or actions are telling her she is wrong. Picture hanging onto someone's pants leg. They want you off, so they shake their leg. That causes you to hold on tighter, which causes them to shake harder.
You are saying, it doesnt matter what you want, what matters is what I want and I want you. I know its not intentional, but, it is what she is feeling.
When you let go, it gives them an opportunity to figure themselves out without the "noise" of your words in their head.
Letting go is the greatest gift of love. It is saying that you hear her and you love her and honor your marriage so much that you are willing to allow her to walk her journey in whatever way she needs to.
Release the fear, Cal. Leave it in His capable hands. Trust that what is supposed to happen, will.
Cal, I wanted to just tell you about letting go. I understand the feeling that if you let go, you feel like you will lose her.
What helped me was thinking of it this way. She is telling you she doesnt want to be married and you, by your words and/or actions are telling her she is wrong. Picture hanging onto someone's pants leg. They want you off, so they shake their leg. That causes you to hold on tighter, which causes them to shake harder.
You are saying, it doesnt matter what you want, what matters is what I want and I want you. I know its not intentional, but, it is what she is feeling.
When you let go, it gives them an opportunity to figure themselves out without the "noise" of your words in their head.
Letting go is the greatest gift of love. It is saying that you hear her and you love her and honor your marriage so much that you are willing to allow her to walk her journey in whatever way she needs to.
Release the fear, Cal. Leave it in His capable hands. Trust that what is supposed to happen, will.
uR
I know you are right .. and I have let her go ... to a point. What I struggle with is when I do actually start to let her go, she somehow reels me back, this is the cycle I must stop. I know this .... how do I do this, what do I do ... do I just eliminate all time she would like to spend as a family when she feels that need, this is where I am at a loss??. I plan to take S to "x" and let her know .. sometimes I invite , sometimes I do not .. and honestly it does not matter to me if she joins of not.I also know she must do this journey without me...otherwise anything that goes wrong will be my fault rather than her looking inward .. I get that
I let her go last year, I honestly did .. but it was no act of love, more out of anger like "screw you, go have babies with your new BF" kind of anger ... not proud of it but I was angry and hurt and coming to grips with the entire sitch.
So now .. I am trying to figure out how to let her go, pointers welcome .... its tricky with the S, the fact that family is big for her, and of course my issues of fixing and not being able to shut my big fat yapper.
So ... currently, I have been focused on work today, work has been one of the good 180's for me this past year. I quit a job I was at for 17 years (Was miserable for the past 5... not helping the M sitch)One of the sales guys came into my office just returned from Singapore/Hong Kong with the President of the company, said they spent a good deal of it talking shop .... he said the Pres is very happy with me and what I have done, he informed me that this type of talk does not typically happen from him, I was actually honored ... I mean I know I have done well ... but it is nice to hear it 3rd hand.
W was dark yesterday.... as was I ... today seems like more tests, I did not speak with her other than hello, have a nice day this morning .. I was not upset, PMA , just trying to detach and not get sucked in honestly.
So then what I have now named the "Test Texts" start. I get a Hi, followed by a notice she has gone back and collected all her expenses since September, she will send me those .... ya know .. just about $2500 worth of things she feels I should be paying for. I waited a bit, and realized... I have been down this road, money is always a hot button topic, I simply said we could discuss this over the weekend when I pick up S and have my information in front of me. I do plan on letting her know I do not believe the amount is fair nor accurate, and she can not just add up 3 months worth and expect payment, I will be kind and try to work with her on this. Then this is followed up by hot button item #2, the holidays, she wants to take him to her brothers for 2-3 days (This I knew about and am fine with) ... and also she wants to plan a trip with him During Christmas ... replied that he would like that .. feel free to plan as I will be working. Then #3, she needs to swap days middle of Dec, a friend of hers has a suprise party for her D, and she wants to take him .. no problem ... I did feel some anxiety because last year she needed me to take him as she went to her company Christmas party with OM, I quickly squashed that in my head ... getting better! ... Then she mentioned if I am planning any surgery I need to do so before the end of the year or it will be more expensive on the insurance ... well .. not planning on that .. so no problem there.
So I now begin letting her go, not easy, but I must do this and allow her to walk the walk she needs. I trust in God, I actually hope she finds her way out, regardless of where it leads. I am honestly tired of the limbo, letting her go is as much for her as it is for me. I was really doing well a few weeks ago before I was sucked into her storm. I do need to develop more friendships. Saturdays now open (No sporst for S) I can do this with the Harley group ... this weekend I will be there taking my bike in for its first service. I need to be selfish for a bit, I realized today .. and uR confirmed it .. W does not want to be married to me, nothing she has said or done shows any difference ... I think at times we all are so desperate looking for a glimpse of hope that when we see it .. we hold on tight ... huge mistake .. as good as it was to feel normal Saturday there was still no spark, no romance ... I have been thinking about how the M was prior to BD, I want to be loved, I actually need that.... I will not settle for crumbs .. I do deserve better. Not looking for it currently .. but I am not going to accept less.
Cali. Look back at UR's words regarding hanging on to the pants leg. The trick there is to let go without closing the door. To get to a point where you have let go, and are OK with whatever's next. Stress is a killer my friend.
knowing I will be alone for Thanksgivings... still working on getting more social, but trying to do this in the correct scene ... not bars/clubs. I have met some people at church .. not on a hey lets hang out level ... but I have opened up some ... progress .. I was so closed off and it was just W and I for so long .. big mistake
Know what I did the first few years after ex? I volunteered at the local dinner for the homeless. I expected to work hard and distract myself. I felt I would be at home with the homeless because, well, I was kind of homeless at that point. A pity party of sorts. But I found that I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed talking to the people there. Both the volunteers and the people that came to partake. The only reason I stopped was just because it became too crowded with volunteers for that one. I've found others.
As for being closed off - I've been there too. Looking back, I think it was in reaction to my ex's behavior and just life. Kids were young and you don't really have time for a family, work, etc and social life for a little bit of that time. Or so it seems. What really seems to have happened was that my ex took up a lot more time than I had. I knew it at the time, but really didn't think it was a bad thing. I was very supportive and encouraging. I was a fixer but I also enjoyed spending time with my family. It reminded me why I worked as hard as I did. In return, I got to spend a lot of time with my family (ex included) and I am very close with my son at this point. My daughter and I were very close until ex left. Not sure how that story will go, but those are precious memories for me. Personally, I wouldn't change a thing about my past. It was hard at first to let me ex have the kids. She didn't really want them at the time, so that fed my ego. But I also worked very hard to reconnect them. I'm glad I did. I'm also glad for the memories, as hard as some of them were at the time.
There's lots to do. Memories to make. Life continues to beat on. You should find something different to do for Thanksgiving this year. What the heck, right?
AJ
AJM
Yeah ... the "trick" ... thats where I am struggling.. I think I am better than I have been during this entire thing.. however I do believe I have been all to much availible and also have let her know I am here no matter what, door is open, maybe to open as I feel like a plan B .... and its hard to know what approach to tak with MLC .... we do not seem to follow the same rulebook as the typical DB'rs .... so its difficult to know what is right and what is wrong. So I walk the tightrope of letting go lovingly ... which I have no problem with ... and am careful not to be holding onto a pant leg and upset momma as she is cooking up her MLC Spew ... lol .. ok I made myself laugh with that visual.
As far as Thanksgiving, its a tough one ... my father and I shared the common interest of cooking, talking texting pics like we were teens in love, I LOVED that with him. He passed Jun 2012, so Nov 2012 was bitter sweet but I cooked my tail off and owned it ... Nov 2013 she had moved out just a week or so prior ... I vivdly recall how depressing that was as I ate left over ham from wht work pot luck alone in a house with no furniture .. was one of the lowest moments in my life.
This year ... both my roomates will be gone, as will my W and S ... I am really ok with that.... and actually weghing some options .. might go for a long Harley ride, might cook just for me, eat it up over the weekend, not sure. I did inquire about the homeless thing ... but received word there are more servers here than homeless. I may just do something with the church .. leaning more that way ... as I need to get more social.
The social thing .. yeah .. I worked alot, and came home and spent it with my family .. totally cool with that .. I do have buddies .. just not ones I would talk to daily. I will say this .. my S and I could not have a better relationship, I am blessed there, I LOVE the 3 nights a week we have and cherish any bonus nights I get when W is tired or has something going on.
Cal, letting go and detaching is a mindset.
My friend Labug wrote this on someone's thread. I hope she doesnt mind me repeating it.
Letting go is a process, it happens in phases and stages and it's not linear. I let go, I hold on, I let go a little more, I hold on. It's not that I haven't let go in the past, it's just that now I'm in a different place and letting go."
This whole process is like that, a little progress followed by a little rest or what may appear to be "backsliding." It doesn't have to be negative, perhaps there was something we didn't learn when we were last in that spot.
To me letting go is when you live your life without regard to her words or actions. It's when you no longer worry about if you are doing or saying the right thing or if she will be upset or what something means. You just do your thing. You live, Cal.
I think if you feel like inviting her someplace you do, if you dont, you dont. But I also think if she wants to do family things, then she can ask. You dont get pulled in because you are busy and finding joy and figuring yourself out.
You are still so invested in her moods and words. Is she depressed today. She is wearing her green robe, she is wearing a favorite dress. What does that mean. She reels you back in because she can. Do you need to tell her where you can taking your son when you have him?
So, do you see the dance that the two of you play? You dont text her, and pull away, she feels that and starts texting you to get you to respond. Break the cycle, C.
^^^^^^^
Yes. Cali, I'm not a vet although I've been following your sitch from the beginning. You certainly have a lot of interaction with your W and IMHO, that keeps you stuck. You spend a great deal of time (and I understand- I do!)analyzing your W's words, clothes, actions, alleged thoughts, etc. For your sanity-stop!
You sound like a good guy and a good dad. Can you be even better ? Of course. Do it for you and for your son. Your w has to do this all on her own. You can be pleasant and cordial, but you can't save her.
I'm not a fan of the holidays but my kids love them. Soooo, I suck it up and do stuff they enjoy. AJ has a great point. Do something different for Thanksgiving. Why not?
Hang in there:-)
uR
Now THAT ^^^^^ I can wrap my thick skull around and Labug is right .. it is a process that happens in phases ... not cold turkey and honestly .. I have done better, but you are right .. I still hold onto little things, Sunday I did make a small step .. I knew she was upset about the window thing .. I apologized and that was that ... I did not follow her around the store like I would have trying to fix it, I apologized and can not control if she accepts it or not, I meant no ill will with the act so I stopped beating myself up over it. That was sometihng I read in a self help book .... it seems to be in line with what you are saying.
I was living my life 2 weeks ago, hind sight 20-20 and all ... that was when I told her I had plans and guess who got pulled in? Yup .. the cycle .. I see it now, so now I just need to be more aware and get off the track when the train is comin.
She picked up S tonight, asked via TM to use the bathroom because she was burning up (Usually happens when she is stressed out) ... I told her sure, let her in, kept cooking, and walked her out .. she did not look good, I wished them both to have a good night. I am going to take the approach to be kind, but if she wants to tell me how she is I will listen, not going to ask if she is ok like I always do (Fought the urge tonight) Baby steps
You? A thick skull? Nah..LOL!
Thought this might help;
To "let go" does not mean to stop caring; it means I can't do it for someone else
To "let go" is not to cut myself off; it's the realization I can't control another
To "let go" is not to enable, but to allow learning from natural consequences
To "let go" is to admit powerlessness, which means that the outcome is not in my hands
To "let go" is not to try to change or blame another; it's to make the most of myself
To "let go" is not to care for, but to care about
To "let go" is not to fix, but to be supportive
To "let go" is not to judge, but to allow another to be a human being
To "let go" is not to be in the middle arranging all the outcomes, but to allow others to affect their own destiny
To "let go" is not to be protective; it's to permit another to face reality
To "let go" is not to deny, but to accept
To "let go" is not to nag, scold or argue, but instead to search out my own shortcomings and correct them
To "let go" is not to criticize and regulate anybody, but to try to become what I dream I can be
To "let go" is not to adjust everything to my desires, but to take each day as it comes and cherish myself in it
To "let go" is to not regret the past, but to grow and live for the future
To "let go" is to fear less and love myself more
Detachment is the:
Ability to allow people, places or things the freedom to be themselves
Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational
Giving another person the space to be himself
Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with people
Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control a person
Developing and maintaining a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life
Establishing emotional boundaries between you and those people you have become overly enmeshed or dependent with in order that all of you might be able to develop your own sense of autonomy and independence
Process by which you are free to feel your own feelings when you see another person falter and fail and not be led by guilt to feel responsible for their failure or faltering
Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing or controlling
Placing all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective and recognizing that there is a need to back away from the uncontrollable and unchangeable realities of life
Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point
Ability to let people you love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to practice tough love and not give in when they come to you to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them
Ability to allow people to be who they "really are" rather than who you "want them to be"
Ability to avoid being hurt, abused, taken advantage of by people who in the past have been overly dependent or enmeshed with you.
Keep going, Cal. I am rooting you on.
^^^^^^^
Yes. Cali, I'm not a vet although I've been following your sitch from the beginning. You certainly have a lot of interaction with your W and IMHO, that keeps you stuck. You spend a great deal of time (and I understand- I do!)analyzing your W's words, clothes, actions, alleged thoughts, etc. For your sanity-stop!
You sound like a good guy and a good dad. Can you be even better ? Of course. Do it for you and for your son. Your w has to do this all on her own. You can be pleasant and cordial, but you can't save her.
I'm not a fan of the holidays but my kids love them. Soooo, I suck it up and do stuff they enjoy. AJ has a great point. Do something different for Thanksgiving. Why not?
Hang in there:-)
I follow yours too .. and am a fan .. looks like we posted about the same time .. I missed your post
You are right .. I have way to much interaction with her .. especially as of late, something I need to stop as I have admitted. And yeah ... I think I will do something fun and cool for Turkey day ... I am looking forward to it honestly . though I have no idea what to expect.
Thank you uR ... you remind me of a friend I had ... wise beyond years and could strip ya down with a sentence ... well not that kind of strip .. my eyes are up here. You get what I am saying .. I am honored you take the trouble to help me along here, you are very kind .... I appreciate you all honestly .. and shudder at the hole I would be in without everyone's guidance .. God Bless every one of you
Anytime, Cal. Just paying it forward.
You saying I am wise reminds me of a funny story. I had a meetup with a few of the people from here. We met for lunch. So, in I walk. I have been known to use colorful language at times. I am from Brooklyn after all. So, I notice one of the woman looking at me kinda strange. I asked what was wrong. She said, "Ok, you look and sound nothing like what I pictured." I asked what that was. She said, "I pictured you as this quiet, little old lady." LOL!
I am a lot of things...a quiet, little old lady is not one of them.
And no comment from the peanut gallery, Mach and T2.
I am a lot of things...a quiet, little old lady is not one of them.
And no comment from the peanut gallery, Mach and T2.
<Cough, cough>
AHEM....(since I was not named in the aforementioned peanut gallerians)
For the record.....uR is both a fireball and a knockout. Two things I aspire to be.
That is all.
Well UR, let me th.....OH! LOOK! SQUIRREL!!!
For the record.....uR is both a fireball and a knockout.
Yes...a fireball...
Quiet, like the Tunguska Meteor
Cali, when stbxw first moved out, we had a lot of contact because she would stay at the house with the kids on her days off and so I would interact with her for a few minutes when I got home from work before she'd leave.
This is when I learned that I was kinda fooling myself about my level of detachment. I would get sucked back in a little bit. Still looking for "signs" sometimes.
Once she ended the marriage, I put up a boundary that she had to be gone before I got home from work.
She stepped across that boundary twice, so I had to raise the bar and told her that she had to do something with the kids away from the house, which she didn't like, at all. I stood firm. And I went very dark, only initiating contact for kids, house business and the divorce. It really helped me, a lot.
Yeah ... I am right there TS .. looking for signs. And sure there are little glimpses here and there of the girl I loved and married but after alot of thought .. even then there is not someone who wants to be married to me .. so why am I hanging around wasting my gift of time?
So the focus is back on me, I have removed myself from her tornado for the moment, easier to do during the week as she is typically dark, at least dim. Yesterday she was TM me about the hot button things, I know she is struggling with money ... seems I am the new answer to this ... makes sense, Lets dig a hole and just ask that guy hanging around for a good chunk of change that I have now justified he owes me.
So she wants to discuss this Saturday, as I refuse to engage in such matters via phone or text. This will no doubt be a fight .. I however am going to set the tone once the emotions get high I will remove myself from the discussion and leave, and we can pick back up where we left off .... I am completely not interested in fighting any longer with this woman.
Last night I did some laundry ( I know .. super exciting...lol), watched Netflix, was up till 12:30 or so .. just not tired and couldn't sleep .. was not really obsessing or anything .. not sure why I was up that late. Tonight I have my RCIA class, looking forward to that, its my routine and I never miss once I commit to things, I am predictable that way. But this is a 180/GAL for me .. so that's kinda "dangerous" right??
makes sense, Lets dig a hole and just ask that guy hanging around for a good chunk of change that I have now justified he owes me.
Careful there ^^^^ ... that way leads to the "victim side" of the Force...
I refuse to engage in such matters via phone or text.
Wise.
This will no doubt be a fight ..
If you think so, it will be so, right......?
I am completely not interested in fighting any longer with this woman.
Fixed it for ya....
Tonight I have my RCIA class, looking forward to that, its my routine and I never miss once I commit to things, I am predictable that way. But this is a 180/GAL for me .. so that's kinda "dangerous" right??
Explain this some more please...
Cali Guy,
I have this sock goblin that eats the matching socks so I'm left with a bunch of singles. Laundry is GALing in my house:-)
Cali Guy,
I have this sock goblin that eats the matching socks so I'm left with a bunch of singles. Laundry is GALing in my house:-)
Well ... to be honest and not a "one-upper" my S leaves behind secrets hidden in "pockets" what ever those are... leaving behind a nice mixture of candy and crayons ... I have mastered the art of cleaning out the sticky from the washing machine more times that I would care to admit .... everyone is buying the crayons are his right??
Thank you, Shining...
I am ignoring those two. Just sayin...:)
Tonight I have my RCIA class, looking forward to that, its my routine and I never miss once I commit to things, I am predictable that way. But this is a 180/GAL for me .. so that's kinda "dangerous" right??
Whatcha mean by that? ^^^.
Oh and we see you trying to figure this out and wanting to do the work...that's why we are pushing you hard.
Tonight I have my RCIA class, looking forward to that, its my routine and I never miss once I commit to things, I am predictable that way. But this is a 180/GAL for me .. so that's kinda "dangerous" right??
Whatcha mean by that? ^^^.
Sorry T2 and uR ... missed that you wanted clarification.
Ok the "dangerous" part ... was joking. But as I have touched on a thread or two ago on this subject I am torn on this issue but after having some questions answered by the Deacon I have accepted my situation with it and as I need to remind myself .. Give it to God and let the chips fall where they may.
The RCIA is the program I attend to become Roman Catholic. When W and I married, we married in the Catholic church on campus where she went to school. We went through a few classes, even did a retreat as part of the churches requirements before being allowed to marry there (With me not being a practicing Catholic) ... I even had to sign a document promising I would raise S as Catholic. I never had a problem with that ..... then during my dark days, was last Jan/Feb I hit rock bottom emotionally .. I recall firmly .. in my room, dark, got on my knees and let it all out, asked God to come and save me ... I also set up an IC appt. I was at a point I either started living a new life .... or knew the life I was currently living would kill me. So I started reading .. attending church, for the first time in my life I felt at home there ...not like before when W would get upset once a month and I would go to keep the peace. So during the next several months W and S would join me her and there .. then I realized... how can I raise S Catholic when I am not? Seemed all the sudden so hypocritical of me .... so I started the process and ironically S and I will have our First Communion on Easter at the same time. It is important to me, to be the spiritual leader for my family .. at least currently for S, he enjoys going to church with me. As far as W .. I am very cautious on how I approach her with this subject. I have just accepted she knows I go, she is welcome to join, and I just leave it at that.
The RCIA is the program I attend to become Roman Catholic. When W and I married, we married in the Catholic church on campus where she went to school. We went through a few classes, even did a retreat as part of the churches requirements before being allowed to marry there (With me not being a practicing Catholic) ... I even had to sign a document promising I would raise S as Catholic. I never had a problem with that ..... then during my dark days, was last Jan/Feb I hit rock bottom emotionally .. I recall firmly .. in my room, dark, got on my knees and let it all out, asked God to come and save me ... I also set up an IC appt. I was at a point I either started living a new life .... or knew the life I was currently living would kill me. So I started reading .. attending church, for the first time in my life I felt at home there ...not like before when W would get upset once a month and I would go to keep the peace. So during the next several months W and S would join me her and there .. then I realized... how can I raise S Catholic when I am not? Seemed all the sudden so hypocritical of me .... so I started the process and ironically S and I will have our First Communion on Easter at the same time. It is important to me, to be the spiritual leader for my family .. at least currently for S, he enjoys going to church with me. As far as W .. I am very cautious on how I approach her with this subject. I have just accepted she knows I go, she is welcome to join, and I just leave it at that.
IF you genuinely are doing it for you, then you don't have to explain anything....
The RCIA is the program I attend to become Roman Catholic. When W and I married, we married in the Catholic church on campus where she went to school. We went through a few classes, even did a retreat as part of the churches requirements before being allowed to marry there (With me not being a practicing Catholic) ... I even had to sign a document promising I would raise S as Catholic. I never had a problem with that ..... then during my dark days, was last Jan/Feb I hit rock bottom emotionally .. I recall firmly .. in my room, dark, got on my knees and let it all out, asked God to come and save me ... I also set up an IC appt. I was at a point I either started living a new life .... or knew the life I was currently living would kill me. So I started reading .. attending church, for the first time in my life I felt at home there ...not like before when W would get upset once a month and I would go to keep the peace. So during the next several months W and S would join me her and there .. then I realized... how can I raise S Catholic when I am not? Seemed all the sudden so hypocritical of me .... so I started the process and ironically S and I will have our First Communion on Easter at the same time. It is important to me, to be the spiritual leader for my family .. at least currently for S, he enjoys going to church with me. As far as W .. I am very cautious on how I approach her with this subject. I have just accepted she knows I go, she is welcome to join, and I just leave it at that.
IF you genuinely are doing it for you, then you don't have to explain anything....
I am completely doing this for me ... but it was brought up earlier about the danger of being "Holier than Thou" and the stigma that comes with that .. so I have been very aware of anything I might share that could be perceived as "judgmental" with the W.
I was confused by the "180", consistency, and "dangerous" part
I was confused by the "its my routine and I never miss once I commit to things, I am predictable that way." part. LOL!
Well it now appears I have a communication problem ... I thought I was just being funny .... lol
Hope it is cleared up. On of those things I "like" about myself is commitment, sports, clubs, saying I will be there at 3 .. I am there at 3. I am dependable that way .. and with the RCIA class .. once I start something .. especially something so important to me .. I do not stop.
Nah, Cal, you communicate just fine. I guess I was curious as to why you included that in your post. I can see that you are committed or may be committed...one of those..LOL!
You saying I am wise reminds me of a funny story. I had a meetup with a few of the people from here. We met for lunch. So, in I walk. I have been known to use colorful language at times. I am from Brooklyn after all. So, I notice one of the woman looking at me kinda strange. I asked what was wrong. She said, "Ok, you look and sound nothing like what I pictured." I asked what that was. She said, "I pictured you as this quiet, little old lady." LOL!
I am a lot of things...a quiet, little old lady is not one of them.
And no comment from the peanut gallery, Mach and T2.
LOL I remember that UR! So sorry! I know better now! Sorry to hijack your thread Cali, but couldn't stop laughing at that memory! Caliguy, you could not ask for better life guides than UR, T2 and Mach, honestly. Believe me, when UR tells you that she is pushing you because she sees you willing to do the work and trying to figure it all out, she will push you thru to the other side. Best of luck to you.
Caliguy, you could not ask for better life guides than UR, T2 and Mach, honestly. Believe me, when UR tells you that she is pushing you because she sees you willing to do the work and trying to figure it all out, she will push you thru to the other side. Best of luck to you.
Yeah, all the way to the Great Wall of China!!
You saying I am wise reminds me of a funny story. I had a meetup with a few of the people from here. We met for lunch. So, in I walk. I have been known to use colorful language at times. I am from Brooklyn after all. So, I notice one of the woman looking at me kinda strange. I asked what was wrong. She said, "Ok, you look and sound nothing like what I pictured." I asked what that was. She said, "I pictured you as this quiet, little old lady." LOL!
I am a lot of things...a quiet, little old lady is not one of them.
And no comment from the peanut gallery, Mach and T2.
LOL I remember that UR! So sorry! I know better now! Sorry to hijack your thread Cali, but couldn't stop laughing at that memory! Caliguy, you could not ask for better life guides than UR, T2 and Mach, honestly. Believe me, when UR tells you that she is pushing you because she sees you willing to do the work and trying to figure it all out, she will push you thru to the other side. Best of luck to you.
I do realize I am truly blessed, they all have their own way of smacking me .. but then explain it and it makes sense .. it really does, I mean after I was like "How dare she leave ME" ... then I realize big picture, and this is about me, thats all I can control, its my break from that crazy life to get myself straight ... the lessons started making sense ... and I am willing to do the work, I mean have you seen my amazing friggin toolbox?
Rosa, it was funny, wasnt it?
And some rep I have on here. LOL!
Caliguy, you could not ask for better life guides than UR, T2 and Mach, honestly. Believe me, when UR tells you that she is pushing you because she sees you willing to do the work and trying to figure it all out, she will push you thru to the other side. Best of luck to you.
Yeah, all the way to the Great Wall of China!!
I have this visual of my being the cat that is being forced into the bathtub .... lol
I dont know what they mean, Cal. Ok, well, I have been known to not give up on someone. And that sometimes involves me, maybe, being, um, kinda persistent. LOL!
But I promise my 2 x 4s really are fur coated. And there is coffee and bacon and ice cream on the other side. Ok, the ice cream I added in because I am not bacon and coffee crazed like some of my friends on here. But, you get the idea.
So, you in?
Coffee, bacon and ice-cream. Mmmmmm
Nice to see the humor, Cali. Very nice. Haven't seen that with you in a while.
If you get an opportunity, re-read UR's posts about detachment. It's worth it.
I was living my life 2 weeks ago, hind sight 20-20 and all ... that was when I told her I had plans and guess who got pulled in? Yup .. the cycle .. I see it now, so now I just need to be more aware and get off the track when the train is comin.
Quick bit of perspective. Just because she left, doesn't mean she is immune from the same requirements to let go. Nor does it mean she will let go willingly. Not that it's a healthy way of holding on. Unless and until you BOTH figure out how to let go, there will be nothing healthy about the interactions you may have. You can bet on that even if you feel she has more work to do than you do (not judging - just pointing out how you may or may not feel and how you need to work on you and let her do her own thing).
If it helps - my ex left the first time on Mother's day. Took the furniture etc. but left the kids and the pets. Why? I dunno. It could have very well been a lonely, depressing time. The kids and I made dinner and ate where the table used to be. We laugh about that. It was like camping in the house
My point is that yeah, there is all kinds of messed up things they may do. At least you may feel that way at the time and it may be that they meant it that way. But as T2 mentioned, there comes a point where they are no longer in your way of living your life. You have the opportunity to make new memories and new traditions as the holidays come. Don't let that time pass you by, Cali. No matter what you choose to do, I'm sure it will be a good time and you'll enjoy the company
AJ
I dont know what they mean, Cal. Ok, well, I have been known to not give up on someone. And that sometimes involves me, maybe, being, um, kinda persistent. LOL!
But I promise my 2 x 4s really are fur coated. And there is coffee and bacon and ice cream on the other side. Ok, the ice cream I added in because I am not bacon and coffee crazed like some of my friends on here. But, you get the idea.
So, you in?
You had me at Bacon ... not sure what you said after that.
So did you get to that little lists exercise from Shining's thread?
AJ
Yeah ... Its a cycle I think with her and I. we were so ... what ... together that we can read each other without words, not fair when you are trying to have your poker face on ... and thats what I had. I was bluffing letting go .. but terrified to do so. Once I start, she knows there is no bluff so she plays her hand and I get sucked back in ... this cycle seems to have repeated 4-5 times before I was enlightened by the wonderful people here ... I just chalked it up as part of my "dance"
As fat as Thanksgiving goes ... I will be good, and yeah S and I will have some sort of new tradition for the Holidays .. I am not dreading it as much ... guess its just acceptance that came along with the mind set of letting her go.
So ... Little Update ... its been quiet. Yesterday she TM me about the Health Ins ... more hot button issues. She is obsessed with getting her affairs in order, wants to drop me from the ins, all this. So I am not eligable to get on my companys ins till June .... Thought about just going VA if need be till then, but her ins is cheaper/better honestly ... and my IC is on her ins ... I have not gone in a month or so ... just feel she has walked me as far as she can ... might need to find someone new for the new issues... I have been debating this.
So anyways ... she tells me the amount .. what I need to pay .. I reply with an "Ok" ... this stuff could wait till we discuss all the finances Saturday. Then she TM later in the day that I need to remind S that he must make his bed and do his homework with her tonight ..... Ummm ... I do not feel its my job here, he is with her, not sure why she can not be a parent here. So I let that TM go ... then she TM "Are you not talking to me on purpose? Its about our son" I replied with "I'll talk to him"
She shows up to pick up S, I was PMA, walked them out .. told S to do his homework and make his bed .... kid is always happy go lucky with me, and off they go.
I went to my RCIA class ... I was a bit out of sorts last night .. not sure .. but I did socialize .. baby steps for me, meeting new people and trying to fit in. W TM and calls me .. asks me to call ASAP .. was just as the class finished up .. so I call .. S has something in his eye, is upset .. so I listen to them struggle on the phone for about 10 minutes ... I was upset I was not there, like not allowed to be there ... this whole thing I did not ask for and all that. So he is finally better, I say goodnight ..... W TM me that its all in his head and he had nothing in his eye, I just replied with "Glad he is better, Goodnight" .... she replied "Fine" .. I TM "You handled him very well" and received a "No you don't care. Forget it"
I let it go ... no need to fight or argue.
I did receive a letter from BIL who is in prison ... was a nice letter. He does talk about W and her family some, telling me their issues of not communicating, and dealing with the pride and stubbornness that results in all their relationships being difficult .... things I know .. but was nice to hear him admit faults ... he has alot of time to look in the mirror .. .most the letter deals with spirituality and faith, he and I never had much of a relationship (180 .. probably for us both) ... I do enjoy discussing things with him now, in a way I feel keeping contact with him helps him.
So did you get to that little lists exercise from Shining's thread?
That list of 20?
I did ... and made me realize I lost a BIG one off that list ...I printed it out.
It was not as easy as I thought it should have been. after .. 8 or so I stalled hard. But I did finish it. I also gave a good deal of thought about who I was younger ... I was much more care-free to be honest ... and then a memory flooded me.
Was shortly after our S was born ... my father (passed about 2 years ago and I do think thats what sparked W MLC) ... and my mother surprised us for Christmas ... they just showed up out of the blue ... anyways I was playing with the dogs in the back yard and they were inside the house just watching me. My father says to my mother ... "Ya know, I always loved that side of Cali that refused to grow up" ..... I realize that part of me kinda dies with my father, I am focused on getting that part of me back, it was where I drew all my energy from.
so I listen to them struggle on the phone for about 10 minutes ... I was upset I was not there, like not allowed to be there ... this whole thing I did not ask for and all that.
Watch those thoughts buddy ^^^^....they do affect us and how we interact...
I just replied with "Glad he is better, Goodnight" .... she replied "Fine" .. I TM "You handled him very well" and received a "No you don't care. Forget it"
Maybe a suggestion here...me being Mr. Spock and all, I can be terse texting, which doesn't work for my stbxw, at all. And since we are in the D process, I want to make sure she doesn't get triggered and change her mind about keeping it amicable...So I started using " :)" at the end of TM's.
That silly smiley thingy has helped HER not make assumptions about what I might be thinking, feeling, etc. It has made a nice difference.
I also gave a good deal of thought about who I was younger ... I was much more care-free to be honest ...
Remember that that younger self is still within you, not lost, still there, always has been...
You just have to let him be heard, by YOU...
so I listen to them struggle on the phone for about 10 minutes ... I was upset I was not there, like not allowed to be there ... this whole thing I did not ask for and all that.
Watch those thoughts buddy ^^^^....they do affect us and how we interact...
I just replied with "Glad he is better, Goodnight" .... she replied "Fine" .. I TM "You handled him very well" and received a "No you don't care. Forget it"
Maybe a suggestion here...me being Mr. Spock and all, I can be terse texting, which doesn't work for my stbxw, at all. And since we are in the D process, I want to make sure she doesn't get triggered and change her mind about keeping it amicable...So I started using " :)" at the end of TM's.
That silly smiley thingy has helped HER not make assumptions about what I might be thinking, feeling, etc. It has made a nice difference.
As soon as I hit send I thought ... wow that kind of looks cold. But ... fighting this fixer thing I have an issue with I thought ... I can not control how she takes it. I was frustrated with her, like I had to listen to my S in pain and struggle over the phone, what was I really going to do except talk him down and calm him .. which I assume is why she called. But .... this MLC thing, its a new ride every day ... if anything its helping my footwork .. dodge n move Rocky .. Dodge n Move.
As soon as I hit send I thought ... wow that kind of looks cold. But ... fighting this fixer thing I have an issue with I thought ... I can not control how she takes it.
But you CAN control your side of it...and if it looked cold, was that a reflection of what you were really thinking/feeling?
Texting can be dangerous in highly charged emotional situations...lord knows I am a texting disaster waiting for an opportunity...
So you probably could have guessed that W could possibly be kinda fired up, right?
Was your REAL intention to communicate this, passively...?:
I was frustrated with her, like I had to listen to my S in pain and struggle over the phone, what was I really going to do except talk him down and calm him ..
As soon as I hit send I thought ... wow that kind of looks cold. But ... fighting this fixer thing I have an issue with I thought ... I can not control how she takes it.
But you CAN control your side of it...and if it looked cold, was that a reflection of what you were really thinking/feeling?
Texting can be dangerous in highly charged emotional situations...lord knows I am a texting disaster waiting for an opportunity...
So you probably could have guessed that W could possibly be kinda fired up, right?
Was your REAL intention to communicate this, passively...?:
I was frustrated with her, like I had to listen to my S in pain and struggle over the phone, what was I really going to do except talk him down and calm him ..
She may have been fired up yes. Once I knew S was ok ... I was kind of indifferent. I did not want to be cold, but also am very sensitive about being sucked in... and the past couple times she has used S as a way to do this. So yeah .. I guess in a way it was me ending the conversation once I knew S was ok. I could have handled it better ... but I also think I very easily could have fired back and made things much worse.
And I agree on the TM ... its a dangerous place .. hence why I have really pulled back here .. especially if I know one of us is "fired up" ... no good seems to ever come out of the TM as it can be taken completely out of context
I did not want to be cold, but also am very sensitive about being sucked in... and the past couple times she has used S as a way to do this.
Tactical maneuvering?
I get that...
Who did/does Cali WANT to be? Regardless of the danger of being "Hoovered" back in...?
Be him, always...
I did not want to be cold, but also am very sensitive about being sucked in... and the past couple times she has used S as a way to do this.
Tactical maneuvering?
I get that...
Who did/does Cali WANT to be? Regardless of the danger of being "Hoovered" back in...?
Be him, always...
Guilty .... right or wrong ... but yeah there is some dancing going on there
That's the guy I am trying to be, building that guy slowly, making the changes stick .... and you are right. With her I am still all to self-aware and that takes away from who I WANT to be and makes me into who I THINK I WANT to be ... and I realize there is a difference.
Get your roadmap together, Cal. Mine looked like this: Act with dignity and honor. Do nothing to interfere with my son's relationahip with his dad. Keep my side of the street clean. No matter what he says or does, I will be true to who I was becoming.
Because of my roadmap, I always knew how I was going to react. Didnt matter what he threw at me, and trust me, he threw some stuff, I tried to remain on my road.
It's funny that you wrote about how you used to be young at heart. I was going to write a post to you to tell you that I feel like you have that inside you, but, it was trapped.
When I was going through all of this, I remember that it felt like this huge weight on my chest. I was carrying around all this stuff that wasn’t mine. I started to imagine it as this big red ball.
After awhile, it got heavy. It wasnt even my ball. It was his.
So, why the heck was I carrying it? I threw it back to him.
I needed to pick up my own ball. And I chose a pretty lavender one with flowers on it.
I filled it with all the things I wanted to do, all the changes I wanted to make. It was a bit heavy, too, because it was also filled with all the stuff I needed to sort through.
But each time I did, it became lighter. Every day that I got through, it became lighter. So that all that was left was all the good stuff.
Dont make that big red ball any heavier than it already is. Throw it back to her.
Pick up yours.
Pick up my own balls .. got it ... lol
It makes sense .... as I was reading it I realized .. I actually have been trying to carry both. you are right ... my own big ball is ( My goodness the visuals here...lol) enough .. its plenty. And yeah I have some things I need to eliminate, because I have been adding so much this year, things I do not intend on losing .. I worked to hard and still have so much more work to do. But I now have the old stuff crammed in there I need to lighten the load.
Funny you mentioned the statement about keeping on my side of the street ... a good friend who knows my sitch, (He had gone through the same, but very family oriented and does not judge .... just tells me I need to make me happy and do what I feel is right) ... anyways he quoted a Bible verse that said just that ... making sure your side of the street was clean and not worrying about anyone else's .... a message I sometimes have to remind myself about.
W TM me this morning about S ... I swear its things that do not have to happen at the moment ... I feel like she is just temp checking me and this feels so much like a game. I replied back, was cordial .. but just discussed S's report card, said I was proud of him and left it at that.
I go through my Right of Acceptance Ceremony in 10 days, this is a big moment in my life spiritually (One of the things that I am adding to that ball) ..... I would like for W and S to be there, but not sure .. its early, they will be out of town earlier that week. I atleast want S there ... I will casually mention it tonight when I see W during the Parent Teacher Conf. we have later today.... just letting her know I have that going on .. tell her that she and S are welcome to be a part of it. No expectations as at the moment I have in my head I will be doing this alone.
You know, I realized after I posted that you would probably go there. Being a boy and all. LOL!
Yea, I hated the idea that it felt like a game. It isnt one, but, it often gets played as one. Til you let go and then you are just living your life..Notice what I did there?
Keep going, Cal.
So ... not to much to add today but I figured I would journal a bit.
Interactions with W ... Last night had parent teachers conference .. I arrived about 10 min early, stopped off and prayed at the little chapel, then went into the room, W car was there but did not see her. Made small talk with the teacher, something I have been improving with this year, PMA with others, actually be more social and friendly, letting my personality show to those I do not know .. its been a personal improvement I am happy with.
So W comes in ... The Teacher lets us know our son is a joy to have, he had very high marks and as I was taking in his work and just thinking .. wow.. this kid seems to actually be doing VERY well with having his world turned upside down, I was very proud ... W was more obsessed with pushing for more, having him do more work outside of class .... like getting in to Harvard was going to be the next stop ... forget 3rd grade. I smiled and realized I wish my parents pushed a bit harder, but I also worry that she might take it to far ... which spun me into another thought, we actually did balance each other pretty well in areas like this. After the meeting W was consumed with asking me if she was being to pushy, looked like she expected to much ... I validated her and told her she was fine, that I was very happy with where S was .... she thanked me for the comment I made in class about how she was the one to give credit to for S's love of reading ... it was true.
So S and I walked her to her car and mentioned my Right of Acceptance event, I told her I realized that she and S would be at BIL's for Thanksgiving (she told me she was not sure what was going on ... not uncommon for the plans to be in the air with her family) So I told her I realized it was early but they were both welcome to be a part of it ... she said she would cancel (I am not sure why she would do this and decided no mind-reading here) ... I told her I did not want that, if they were there great, if not that is fine too ... I just wanted to extend the invitation. I opened her door for her as I typically do and told her to drive safe. She TM later telling me she picked out his Christmas outfit .. very upbeat and happy ... I replied but did not really try to get any conversation going. Seems she likes to use S as a way to engage me in conversation ... mind-reading ... but I am really cautious about getting sucked in.
Things that are in my mind ... She has mentioned the A with OM feels like an addiction to her, then a day or so later she said she is confused and does not know what she wants. I know she has to work this stuff out, she has to finish her journey and I can not be a part of that. But there is that hurt little boy I am trying to silence that realizes she does not want the M, does not want the family .. .and does not want me ... and its hard to not take that personal. That little boy wants to lash out, but the man I want to be will not allow this, he will walk tall and hold his head up high, he will be dignified about this ... regardless if that hurt little boy wants to dish out some pain of his own .. this will not happen, I am better than this. Sure I deserve better, as does my son .. and the way I can get this is by treating myself better and not allow anyone to have power over my moods/thoughts/actions.
Observations: The past week or so, she seems to be doing things differently ... alot of Facetime with S on the phone, if she is running late due to traffic she sends a picture of the traffic. I have not brought up the fact I trust her as far as I could throw a semi truck. Not reading into this stuff, just simple observations.
But there is that hurt little boy I am trying to silence that realizes she does not want the M, does not want the family .. .and does not want me ... and its hard to not take that personal.
That's where she is now, and you have to accept that. (and I think you pretty much have) It doesn't mean she will always feel that way. Feelings can and do change... there lies the hope for your M.
But there is that hurt little boy I am trying to silence that realizes she does not want the M, does not want the family .. .and does not want me ... and its hard to not take that personal.
That's where she is now, and you have to accept that. (and I think you pretty much have) It doesn't mean she will always feel that way. Feelings can and do change... there lies the hope for your M.
Yeah ... I have, as much as I would like to fight it I have. I had to think about it from afar (Could not do this without detaching a bit) and think .. evne when I thought things were good... there were no indications she wanted the M, it was just she wanted the comfy feel of a familiar blanket.
I do have hope, and faith .. still. However I also have reservations .... all I can do is live my life, continue my path ... and take things as they come. I do not think I have made it this far for nothing .... Song lyrics in my head "Storm" by Life house .." I know You didn't bring me out here to drown"
Yep, what my friend, FY said..^^^
So, just a couple of things cuz now you know thats how I roll. LOL! Gotta keep you honest, Cal, because you are commmitted here.
So I told her I realized it was early but they were both welcome to be a part of it ... she said she would cancel (I am not sure why she would do this and decided no mind-reading here) ... I told her I did not want that, if they were there great, if not that is fine too ... I just wanted to extend the invitation.
There you go, Cal...nicely done.
But there is that hurt little boy I am trying to silence that realizes she does not want the M, does not want the family .. .and does not want me ... and its hard to not take that personal.
I get that because I felt that. The thing is this. She is in a crisis. She wants desperately to feel better. And I mean desperately. The MLCer cannot see it is inside of them. So they lash out at those closest to them. They really believe if they eliminate that part of their lives, they will feel better. You could have been perfect, Cal. It would not have mattered. She is hurting, broken. She feels as if she is going crazy. It really does have nothing to do with you. It is her frantic search for the end of the pain.
That little boy wants to lash out, but the man I want to be will not allow this, he will walk tall and hold his head up high, he will be dignified about this ... regardless if that hurt little boy wants to dish out some pain of his own .. this will not happen, I am better than this. Sure I deserve better, as does my son .. and the way I can get this is by treating myself better and not allow anyone to have power over my moods/thoughts/actions.
Yep. And think about it, lashing out may feel better for a moment, but, that moment doesnt translate into real relief. What it would do, though, is change who you are.
Observations: The past week or so, she seems to be doing things differently ... alot of Facetime with S on the phone, if she is running late due to traffic she sends a picture of the traffic. I have not brought up the fact I trust her as far as I could throw a semi truck. Not reading into this stuff, just simple observations.
They change in their crisis...it is not linear, it ebbs and flows, goes up and down and back and through. That's why it's best not to even pay attention to the changes...until they are real.
Cal, I know this is so hurtful, down to your very core. I also know that this was a journey you were meant to go on.
May I ask you...the hurt little boy...are those feelings related to anything else that has happened in your past? I ask because they were for me. My mother was an alcoholic. The little girl in me never felt good enough. So that when this happened, those feelings resurfaced. Once I could reconcile why I was feeling the way I did, I was better able to cope with the feelings of hurt and abandonment.
I want you to know there is always hope as long as you have it, Cal. There really and truly is.
This is how it is right now, it doesnt mean it will always be this way. This is how you feel at the moment, you will not always feel this way.
You are doing wonderfully, sweetie.
Yep, what my friend, FY said..^^^
So, just a couple of things cuz now you know thats how I roll. LOL! Gotta keep you honest, Cal, because you are commmitted here.
Committed .. as in a membership to Looney-ville??? ... lol Yeah I am committed, and have had a realiszation I will be a card holding member to this for some time regardless of my desires for lightning to come out of the sky and reboot my wife's CPU ... I have to patiently await on the shore .. enter Lighthouse.
So I told her I realized it was early but they were both welcome to be a part of it ... she said she would cancel (I am not sure why she would do this and decided no mind-reading here) ... I told her I did not want that, if they were there great, if not that is fine too ... I just wanted to extend the invitation.
There you go, Cal...nicely done.
Yeah I thought I did well, and honestly I would LOVE for S to be there, but its really ok if this does not happen, this one is part of MY journey
But there is that hurt little boy I am trying to silence that realizes she does not want the M, does not want the family .. .and does not want me ... and its hard to not take that personal.
I get that because I felt that. The thing is this. She is in a crisis. She wants desperately to feel better. And I mean desperately. The MLCer cannot see it is inside of them. So they lash out at those closest to them. They really believe if they eliminate that part of their lives, they will feel better. You could have been perfect, Cal. It would not have mattered. She is hurting, broken. She feels as if she is going crazy. It really does have nothing to do with you. It is her frantic search for the end of the pain.
I get that, heard a sermon months ago that put it into a perspective I appreciated. Your pet dog is out running around and gets hit by a car, you try to help it and it bites you, out of fear and pain... not because of what you are trying to do .. but because the animal is scared. Helped me with her lashing out and me not taking it as personal.
That little boy wants to lash out, but the man I want to be will not allow this, he will walk tall and hold his head up high, he will be dignified about this ... regardless if that hurt little boy wants to dish out some pain of his own .. this will not happen, I am better than this. Sure I deserve better, as does my son .. and the way I can get this is by treating myself better and not allow anyone to have power over my moods/thoughts/actions.
Yep. And think about it, lashing out may feel better for a moment, but, that moment doesnt translate into real relief. What it would do, though, is change who you are.
Observations: The past week or so, she seems to be doing things differently ... alot of Facetime with S on the phone, if she is running late due to traffic she sends a picture of the traffic. I have not brought up the fact I trust her as far as I could throw a semi truck. Not reading into this stuff, just simple observations.
They change in their crisis...it is not linear, it ebbs and flows, goes up and down and back and through. That's why it's best not to even pay attention to the changes...until they are real.
Cal, I know this is so hurtful, down to your very core. I also know that this was a journey you were meant to go on.
May I ask you...the hurt little boy...are those feelings related to anything else that has happened in your past? I ask because they were for me. My mother was an alcoholic. The little girl in me never felt good enough. So that when this happened, those feelings resurfaced. Once I could reconcile why I was feeling the way I did, I was better able to cope with the feelings of hurt and abandonment.
I want you to know there is always hope as long as you have it, Cal. There really and truly is.
This is how it is right now, it doesnt mean it will always be this way. This is how you feel at the moment, you will not always feel this way.
You are doing wonderfully, sweetie.
I am not sure .. honestly. Now I would not say that I had a great childhood. But I will give it to you so you all may see somethings that I just do not see ... or maybe there is something I need to work on.
Oldest out of 3 boys .. all 6 years apart (Fathers joke was he only got it every 6 years and had to make it count ... ok .. still funny) Father was always gone working in various states, but would be back on weekends .. maybe every other depending on where he was. Strong, stern man but honestly... I became good at being good when he was around and doing as I wanted when he was not ... so ... yeah not a huge father figure presence during my childhood. He and I had a falling out in my teens ... but reconciled and became close in my late 20's up to when he died in 2012 (I did not handle this loss well at all)
So growing up I was the oldest and in charge, I did not want this nor care for it.... Both parents alcoholics, Mother worse than Father .... atleast in my eyes. She would just become so ... well .. stupid... drunk. I to this day have respect issues with her and her drinking, and still do not care for women when they are intoxicated. (W does not drink so never been an issue there)
As far as the hurt little boy and trying to think about any resurfacing feelings ... yeah abandonment may come into play a bit here ... but honestly I was ok with my parents not being around, it was freedom... and I was ok with that. But yeah I get that feeling of ... if I am better maybe I will be loved, there is something to that. I feel that I have never been good enough for W, she is very beautiful, that increased with age with her, when we were young she had no clue how gorgeous she was ... now ... it seems she knows, is almost arrogant about it .. and I am just this midwest kid who got lucky but can no longer afford the payments.
This is what I have been trying to work out ... that I am good enough .. that I deserve better. Rebuilding the self esteem that I allowed to be taken from me slowly over the years, regaining my confidence and self worth ... I have made progress but still have alot of work to do in this area ... slowly I am getting there.