The Goddess and GUBU: Square Dancing at the Triple GGG Ranch

Old threads link: (hopefully)

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&view=started&id=35406

Thanks to everyone who responded on my last thread.

Nero, I wanted to give you a shout out for your continued support.

I have to believe that things will get better. One way or the other, they have to.

Today I heard a quote from the movie with Vincent Price, "The Tingler".
It made me think of our sitches.

Dr. Warren Chapin (Price):
"I've seen this phenomenon many times in people who were badly frightened just before they died. There's a force in all of us that science knows nothing about.
The force of FEAR.

... The "Tingler".... is in all of us....but what causes it to appear and disappear, we don't know. Someday, I hope to find out."

"... It's an ugly and dangerous thing--ugly because it's the creation of man's fear which is ugly too... dangerous because--a frightened man is dangerous..."

"FEAR....fear... when it's in the body and cannot be released... is it possible, that this FEAR CAN KILL YOU?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes. I believe that unrelenting fear, dread, anxiety and panic cause negative changes to the body and mind. That's been proven.
It will cause PTSD, high blood pressure, heart disease, gastric distress, weight loss, insomnia, and all sorts of other things.

I think many of us here are suffering classic symptoms of PTSD yet somehow don't think it's worth noting, much less treating.
It is serious stuff people. Your well-being should be your number one priority.
Especially for those of us who are older and more vulnerable to the ongoing stress.
And for those of you with children, you owe it to THEM to feel better, whatever it takes.

That's why is is SO important that we get that PMA and GAL for US. For our health. For our loved ones.
It's not "optional". Not if we want to survive this.

We need to get OURSELVES UNDER CONTROL.
I am as guilty as the next guy.

I am still down 30 pounds and hovering. Ten I was okay with. Thirty, not so much.

I still have days when it's hard to eat, hard to sleep.

But I don't want my own "Tingler" to take over and kill me with my own fear.

I am going to scream myself sane if it's the last thing I do.

---(G)GGG

GGG,

Close, but not quite....just thisclosetoit.

The Goddess of Goats Thrives Alone on Her Mountain

Oh.. was I supposed to re-name it?

I told you--it's a mental block. Some days the neurons are firing, others, not so much!

Thanks for having my back, Wonka!

GGG,

You and everyone here knows that it is UP TO US to pull the trigger and call it quits. There's absolutely no shame in this AFTER we've put in sincere effort in busting a divorce. Nothing to hang our heads about. It is all about free-will choices. I have made mine, Raine made hers, Ellie has made hers, Job....on and on and on. you get the picture.

And enjoy your winnings! The answer is "yes" to all of your 'clarification' questions and your young hot villa guy is a mixture of George Clooney with the smoldering body of a 25-year old. The ticket and prizes are good for up to 1 year. Enjoy!!

Wonka.... What?

I'm not sure what you're responding to with the "pulling the trigger" statement.

I don't believe anyone should ever be ashamed for doing what they believe to be right, even if their efforts don't produce the outcome they'd planned or hoped for.

My concern is the fear that underlies so much of our distress here. All the "What Ifs?" and questions about the future.

I admire anyone who takes the high road, who lives by their convictions, who has compassion, and who gives their best.

Even if their best is knowing when the battle is lost and it's time to save the troops who are still standing.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

As for my "winnings". My birthday is Groundhog Day. February is pretty bleak around here. Can I cash it in then?

A tropical retreat might be just what the doctor ordered.

Pulling the trigger...such as filing for D. That's what I meant earlier...

Oh... okay.

I am not planning on pulling any triggers, metaphorical or otherwise.
Because I am a person of peace.

But here's something funny.

Yesterday, H knew I was sick and although I *hoped* that he might actually step up and offer to bring me something, or ask if I needed anything when he was on his way, he did not.

I wasn't able to eat all day, so I bit the bullet and texted him:
"How would you feel about picking up some Chinese on your way?"

At which point he called and we had one of THREE, count 'em, THREE upbeat phone convos.

I swear he IS better.

He is smiling and laughing. It's amazing. I don't know if it's the intense bike riding but I know that helps. He has never been able to stay "well" without either running or biking.

I knew this was a problem for him with warding off depression, but he couldn't see it as clearly as I could. Now it's plain to see that he is feeling less depressed. It's not my imagination.

Anyhow, he brought the food, made some crack about Ebola... and keep my distance.
(A JOKE? First one in a year.)

Ok.. all that was good. He checked in on me later via text. Nice night.

Now, you recall how I patched and painted that bathroom wall?

Well... today I get a LONG text from him with lots of question marks:

"Do you know what happened to the wall in the basement bathroom by the toilet????????"

"It looks like someone took a sharp object and hit the wall and there are some spots with the paint chipped and missing???????????"

(I am not exaggerating on the question marks.)

So---here's the funny part.

I didn't touch that part of the wall.
The spots he mentioned were miniscule. Hardly worth mentioning since there are gaping HOLES where he needs to finish off the outlets, etc.

I have no idea how that happened, but it was probably HIM.

Nope. He says. "This is new". As if I'm some crazy person that would go in there with a broken matchstick and scratch a half-inch mark in the wall down by the toilet.

Anyhow. I said "Not me" (TRUE!)
And sort of wondered why he would even CARE.

I mean. Look at my living quarters! I don't even HAVE "walls"!

Is his concern for his precious bachelor bath, or for my mental state.
Like, am I in extremis and suicidal or something?

Finally I said, "Listen, about your bathroom. If I wanted to do some damage in there, it wouldn't be some little scratch by the john. You'd know it!"

Anyhow, I thought it was funny. Since I deliberately did not touch up all the dings that were already there from actions other than my own.

And that's what he focuses on.

Who knows? Maybe he's psychic.

Or he has a Nanny-Cam in the bowl.

Oh--and then he blamed "That GUY" (Farm Boy Toy).
"Maybe he was in there with a tool or something."

(And here's me, thinking. "Oh, he was in there with a hard tool alright. Such a big one that no wonder it put a dent in your precious wall!!!!" Okay, okay. I'm naughty.)

I said, "Maybe it's something you just noticed now, isn't that possible?"

He says "Nope."

Maybe he needs to portray me as a nut-job with a random nail file...

He probably was drunk and took the top off the tank and dinged the wall.

But so much better to think that his crazy STBX wife is out-of-control.

Whatever.

Life is weird.

---(G)GGG

Quote:

(And here's me, thinking. "Oh, he was in there with a hard tool alright. Such a big one that no wonder it put a dent in your precious wall!!!!" Okay, okay. I'm naughty.)

ROFLMAO!!!!!!

hey hi goat g :

i can't believe you refer to tingler - we watched that lame old thing a few weeks ago=- and i was wondering who in the world (beside us) would watch such a werid old thing - ta da - you. (and me) ha/!

anyway- idk- too litle sleep last nite- so blue morning here. I have no faith at all this morning (that anything here will "turn out okay". merely that i am staving off the "end". (for a bit longer) dreary tho ught huh?.

wow - 30 lb. i was alot lighter when this first happened - past ;year i've gained back 10 or 15 lb and need to get it back off (my pants don't fit) and i'm not buying new cloths.

i can't eat or sleep properly. I KNOW & BELIEVE you about stress on a long range basis. But just knowing something and aggreeing with it - does not seem to actually make it change.

i worry a bit about the long-range effects of stress. - have lost some hair - it makes me walk alot- exercise does seem to help defuse me- so i've got that going on. idk- what the heck does one do but plunge forward and do "what ya gotta do" (this estate & selling 2 houses - dealing with the players)_ - i don't know. it's a "job i've got and it's got to be acco mplished.

much like h and his mlc- i have soooo long and soooo much misery gone thru- it seems a shame to "give up" - tho i don't have much light at the end of that tunnel really.

i think h thinks he "has it all" now, and it'll go on like this forever. (HOLY crappola huh?!!)

h is writing e-mails to me yesterday and today. , i am not responding. he called here yesterday sometime- i didn't return call. he was w/ ow over the weekend- and i just feel tired and disgusted by him. I cannot think of one thing in the world i want to talk to him about- certainly not share my life with him. i just can't talk to him -

I'm grossed out by him - in a quiet and tranquil way,. not big "emotional" junk . -

by thursday - he was all calling (more than once a day, and asking questions and "acting interested" before he went to see her , or she came to (our) his house. (ick ick ick - thinking of that cow laying on my side of the bed) . i could tell as usual - what a jerk he is to not see himself and how he acts. - he's all "wagging his tail" and happy and obviously thinks i don't notice, i don't think he notices at all (no kidding- lame man) that he does it- gets "nice", and solicitous and chatty and cheerful and keeps conversation going (which in and of itself is soooo unlike him - in generaL).

I talked to my three sisters yesterda;y (always anxiety filled - one is violent anger prone - one is aggressively braggie & needy of praise (for things she is not and hasn't really done) and other is agreeable pretty much (tho has told me i am stealing from them all !!??) and all have tons of ideas and advice how ican "do better" yet, never time to actually help with getting this house cleaned out or estate issues done.'

I am surrounded by people who have not one single shred of self-awareness. no kidding. makes me feel crazy- who are these people? and how the heck do they preach and preen about things they "think" they are and do - and not see that the truth (objectively) is the opposite. I cannot believe my world at this time. One of them (anger girl) keeps saying if someone (me obviou sly) is at odds with everyone around them , then what's the common denominator? themselves - look at self for problem .

here's the kicker - then she carries on about fighting with her boss at work (last 10 yrs or so!!)_ and everyone else around her - helllloooooooo - .

she (&older sis) tell me(alot) that everything is "equal" now that mom is dead. yeah- rite - no body helped or visited or could be bothered - at all or much for past 20 yrs except me, and all of a sudden - now that she's dead - we're allll "equal" and have done equal for her - and are now (????) doing equal.... (of course tho, on daily basis - they are alll busy with their lives and are not here AT ALL) ever, & two are soooo mad they won't get more $$... it's nuts

i have no idea where these people came from?

In general h is much nicer, etc this year across the board - HOWEVER, It is incredibly discouraging to know & see that what really makes him happy in life- is his exciting "adventures" of sexting and seeing ow. that is that. new & fun sex is "love" ap parently - and old familiar person "he cares a great deal about" , cough, vomit, etc. is pooh.

I do not look forward to being very darn lonely & very darn poor ( i do not think he will give me or sell me his half of house cheaply) - i do not like the idea that nobody will be in my life - "there" for me (even partly) -

the girl next door - (who actually (intuitively) db'd for about f ive years (her h had an 0w - kicked her out of house for three years!, then she finally said she missed her home and moved back in - and he left for awhile- then somehow he figured out that he and ow were not "the best idea" and they reconciled) - was saying last nite she never gave up because the question to be answered was " what would make you more unhappy- staying or going. she always felt "going" would.

i feel that way too. I just feel disgusted because, honestly, it's all disgusting and his "niceness" doesn't really give me alot ,. idk why- i'm glad he's alot nicer and waaayu better to be around (doesn't treet me like i have a serious communicable disease anymore) BUT - i'm starving here for being and feeling loved i guess -

okay- i'm going to quit whining and go get busy. i have gal best i can - short of assuming a false & bs identity tht is not me. working is good (hadn't done that in 20 years). lots of act ivities with some good friends w hen he's gone-

HOWEVER - IT DOESN'T fool me into thinking i have a greatlife.

i have lots and lots to be grateful for- i know it. happyu tho?

not so much- oh well huh? as far as fear - i have a bit of trepidations. But honestly, i do believe I and everyone do and can do, what we HAVE TO, when the time comes. I don't think things like this(D - LE AVING - ULTIMATUMS) are the sort of things one does for our image - or to make a point, or takes on one minute before it's totally thrust upon us (or why else would we even be trying to "fight the good fight?" AND DB IF it wasn't something very important in our lives - that otehr person :& the R)??) - BUT -

o h well, now i really am out of here. i'll just make myself feel worst if I don't shove it out of my mind and get on with today.

xxoo - maybe more c offee???? sorry for long rant- you were the first guy so ka blam.....

hope you have a good day

i think we

Sorry for what you're going through, Nero.

I am in the same boat with my mother, although she is still alive.

I am her executor and have been her primary care-giver for the last eight years. My brother has not seen her in TEN years, and my sister does the bare minimum when I twist her arm.

No doubt my brother will make the trip when the will is read...hahaha. Would be funny if it weren't true.

My mother insists on splitting everything equally between the three of us, even though H and I have spent thousands over the years for her care and for my ongoing visits.

Whatever. It's her money, she can do as she pleases.

As for your H. Well, maybe he'll wake up and smell that coffee you're making!
But I wouldn't count on it.

I am really starting to think that the majority of us might be better off than to stick around for however long for these people who are treating us like "pooh".
(And not like Winnie the Pooh, either!)

I don't recall the dates of your BD and all. Seems a lot of people have removed their signatures from their posts. I wish they'd leave them in because I have a hard time keeping everyone straight!

But I'm not hanging in forever. I am holding out hope that things might turn around before the last shovelful of dirt falls on the casket of my M.

I don't want to pack, move... and then have to move back again. So I'm waiting until the bitter end. Once I'm gone, I'm gone. Too much work to do otherwise and life is short.

Better to keep it sweet.

---Your Pal,

The Goat Gal

We are definitely Square Dancing at the GGG Ranch today, y'all!!!

We've got us a kick-a** fiddle player, Washboard Joe is busy keeping rhythm, and Gramps has got his spoons a-flyin' like nobody's business. And Old Alberta is a-blowin' that jug just like she did when she was working the dance halls... It sounds GOOD!

The caller seems to be pretty good too, instructions are pretty clear, and it seems H and I are dancing fairly well together so far.

It's tentative, but hey--we're new at this.

(Chew tobacco, chew tobacco, chew tobacco--SPIT!)

I am not imagining this, y'all.

H is definitely warming up towards me and his attitude is vastly improved.

Heres' my proof:

He checked in today via text, let me know when he left work, and that he got stuck in traffic and would be late.

I missed seeing him while he was here, but he CALLED as he was leaving (still good with the calling) and we had another nice convo about the day's events, and he was laughing and making jokes.
It was very relaxed, very normal, like it would have been years ago.

(The fact that he wants to talk to me and not just send a text saying 'All done" is a huge improvement.)

He even asked a few times how I was feeling (had a bad cold) and gave me advice for getting over it faster, per his experience and the people at work who had a similar bug.

He expressed concern for our two dogs who were at the vet today, and for a third who had a seizure and is starting to have more issues. (They're all seniors.)

We talked about the chickens and the mystery guest who keeps tunneling into their enclosure. Jokes about that, too.

Then he clearly gave me his schedule for the rest of the week, APOLOGIZING for the times he has events at work!
Said he'd be happy to stay here this weekend so I can go to a big dance in the city.

He even volunteered that on Sunday he has GRADUATION (yes, he actually mentioned it) and we laughed about the particulars of that event.

So the sting is gone from that word, "GRADUATION", forever connected to the unfortunate events of last year when I faced down his recently X-OW Ho-worker while noticing he'd chosen THAT day to remove his wedding band, which he'd promised to wear.
As we drove home that day, I almost kicked a hole in his glove box, I was so hurt and furious.

(Normally, he'd avoid mentioning anything that brought up unpleasant emotions, which had me wondering how the guy was ever really going to divorce me after all. I mean, it might upset me and I might get mad at him!)

Anyway...Notice a pattern there with the kicking?
It's part of what makes me so good at dancing the Charleston! Maybe I can transition into Square Dancing with that too, ya think?

Anyhow--He was very transparent about his plans and seemed comfortable with giving me the info. (Which I NEVER ask for, btw.)

I told him my plans for the weekend, who and what and where, and it was all nice and warm and fuzzy.

Now here's the cool part:

I SWEAR at the very end, either he or I ALMOST said:
"I love you" as we did in the old days.

I was hanging in the air. I could feel it. Like he WANTED to say it.

I swear, I am NOT making this up!

So we are dancing around our little square and we'll see where we end up when the music stops.
I have a feeling it's gonna be a looooooooong session; hope the band can hold up that long.

Hey---Maybe they can use a few shots of that "White Lightning" they make up in "them thar hills"!
This used to be a big moonshining area back in the day, with "Regulators" and cockfighting, people going blind from the bad stuff, and the whole deal.

I'm sure there's a gotta be a still or two hidden up on my mountain somewhere, so I'm gonna saddle up the donkey and bring a good gas lantern.

I'll check back with y'all later on tonight. Don't y'all go no-whar, y'hear?

---(G)GGG

Howdy Pardner!

Ready for some real bull riding!!?? Wait. You've already been around that rodeo with your kicking skills. Ah...never mind.

You show me a bull, and I'll show you a male animal who has not really been ridden before he met me.

Yep.

You heard that right, Darlin'.

Ohhhhh....oooohhh...talk about double entendre!! And you're not too shy about this at all, sweetie.

Yeah...

My old saddle may be dusty, and my riding skills might be rusty, but that old saddle is still trusty.

I can work a double-entendre just as well as I can work the broncos in the round pen. A pair of spurs, a good lariat, and a cowboy hat that fits (I have a pinhead). That's all I need.

Although to keep in character, I should have said:

"You show me a bull and I'll show y'all a male animal who ain't been rode right yet, leastaways not till he made MY acquaintance!"

Sort of a' la Mae West.

"I used to be Snow White... then I drifted."

Wowsers.

....What?

I'm talking about BULL RIDING.

Come on folks, get your collective minds out of the gutter.

Sheesh.

BTW---Bull Riding is real big up this way, as is Bronc Riding.
Every year at the Farm Show it's the biggest event and every year somebody gets seriously hurt.

I'm thinking of putting that on my Bucket List.
After all, what's a little more pain, right? At this point, I'd hardly notice.

---(G)GGG

I think I done skeered y'all off.

Shoot. (Spits a wad of chaw into the spittoon.)

I always thought of the fabulous Miss Mae West as an incredible role model for a 1930's-inspired example of feminine pulchritude.

There are so many great quotes attributed to her, like:

"Sex is like bridge. If you don't have a good partner, you'd better have a good hand."

She was a voluptuous, platinum blonde bombshell who was able to convey a powerful sense of her own sexuality in the 1930s, and have it glorified on film, in public. How incredible is that?

I should have hit my prime in the '30s. It is my decade for music, fashion, the role that emerged for women.... And Mae West.
She helped pave the way.

Heck yeah, she's a role model.
Unabashedly bawdy, yet sweet and vulnerable, she was a woman after my own heart.

So, as the indomitable Mae might say:

"Goodnight all you DBusters. I've got to see a man about a horse."

----(G)GGG

I recently saw a museum display of movie gowns, and they had some shoes that Mae West wore. Picture a pair of high heels....but under the ball of the foot, a thick platform shaped like the toe of a second shoe. Only the bottom platform would show under her gown, looking like normal shoes.....but really her foot was above that big platform. Made her look taller.

GGG, Mae West, huh? Just how I pictured you!

I have adopted '50s style dresses they are so fashionable right now. Having still a slighty larger figure they look elegant. Think all about that bass singers dress.

So go the 30's if that era suits you.

I get dressed up lots, today I'm having a hard time not getting dressed and heading out. S16 went to bed so he can sleep after being up campin all night with mates.

My middle son gave me a t shirt with a Mae West quote 'I used to be Snow White until I drifted' I wear it to garden in and it makes me smile!!

GGG I love your posts, but have little to offer: my xh is still in never never land, and I while I applaud anyone who hangs in there, in my own case I realise I would have probably been sensible to call it quits earlier than I did. Easy to be wise after the event.

In a way it is a gamble - hard to predict which ones will make it through. I both do and don't regret how much time and emotional energy I spent on this guy!! Regret is pretty pointless, and I also learnt a lot about myself. I stopped trying to 'fix' people or feel responsible for their happiness. A big breakthrough.

Well, the Square Dance continues and H is mostly off the beat.

He was here last night, all pleasant enough, and I went to a Halloween Costume Ball, had a great time.

He seemed relaxed and in decent spirits.

So now it's about dinnertime and he's back at "his" house.

I just got this series of texts--I have not responded to anything yet because it's just too bizarre!

1. "Wish I could have stayed over tonight too, but too much to do for graduation tomorrow. "
"Soon we need to talk about the future--Me"

2. "I want to see you in jeans...and a crop top...just a dream..." (WTF?)

I was thinking about if/how to respond to the above ^^^ when this comes in about 20 minutes later:

3. "That was the old days...No more. no more. Time for the next chapter. BYE!!!!!!!!!"

He almost had me at the first two.
I was going to respond with something lighthearted but non-committal, like, "Would that be with or without baseball cap?

"

But then I started to think about how this once again is about MY BODY. Seeing my body this way or that.
One of the issues in our R was his objectification of my body parts and separating sex from emotion.
So that was weighing on me a bit and I didn't want to "encourage" talk about how he'd like to see me--FOR HIS OWN PLEASURE.

But he nipped that in the bud himself.

Text #3 sounds testy to me.
As if he felt he extended himself emotionally, and the fact that I didn't respond (yet) made him lash out with that "No more...no more."
And "BYE!!!!" sounds a lot to me like "F-U!!!!!"

It stinks to try and unravel text convos like these.
It involves a LOT of mind-reading and I hate that. My guess is he's drinking, lonely, and irritated that I am not doing whatever it is he wants me to be doing.

On the other hand, any emotional bids from him should be fielded with care, so I do feel some type of response is warranted, not flippant and not joking. He doesn't take that well.

This is now the third time he's stated that he wants to talk about "The Future" and although he has been in my presence a lot lately, he's never said a word about it.

The other thing about these texts is that they are DIFFERENT.

After BD and OW, he said "I'll never be attracted to YOU again!" and other things along this line. As if I had upset him so much with my negative response to his adultery that he no longer felt he could trust ME with being close.

So him even mentioning the "jeans and crop top" means he is thinking about me in a sexual way.
(And I guess after he spilled that, he wanted to retract it.)

Oh--wait!!! There's MORE! This about 15 minutes later:

#4: "I'm sorry. That is not who we are. You are a good woman...It's just time to move on... Text when you are safe.... Me."

WHAT is "not who we are"? This makes no sense, so best to ignore.
So much for "I wish I could have stayed over tonight too and see you in jeans and a crop top."!
I swear the "time to move on" stuff is just him trying to hurt me for not--I don't know, doing the work for him?

It feels like he's MAD.
Why mention "moving on"?
He filed for divorce, I'm living my life mostly separate from him.
It feels like a dig at me:"Don't get the idea that I want to be around you. I don't. I want to move on..."

Blah, blah, blah...

Guess he is GUBU tonight! Alrighty then!

DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING THEY SAY.

Clearly he's stumbling around somewhere in his tunnel and is bumping his head. I was waiting for the roller coaster to start again and here it is.
I knew that he was coming out of his funk, but from everything I've read, it doesn't go smoothly and I was prepared for GUBU to make several more appearances before this is done.
And he wants something from me here; he never writes this much, or about this sort of thing. He is rambling and reaching for something from me.

He's like the Beast with Two Heads, and both of them are talking:
"I want to talk about the future" --- "There IS no future!!!"
"I think you're cute"---"No I don't, you're horrible!"

Whatever....
Thoughts?

I am tempted to not respond at all. Just too weird. And I feel like anything I might say will just add to the confusion. I don't want to engage with that.

-----(G)GGG

And beatrice, Ggrass, and Mighty,

Yes, Mae West is super cool. If I had a little more meat on my bones I could channel her more effectively.

And Ggrass, I am envious that you can rock those '50's dresses!

---(G)GGG

As always, I am not objective enough to see my own sitch as clearly as I can some others. So input would be appreciated.

I *think* I'm on the right track with ignoring crazy talk... but I don't want to miss an opportunity to reward his initial attempt to reach out.

(Of course, he quashed that with the follow up, but still.)

I'm thinking of saying something like: "You take care. Hope graduation goes well,. Talk to you tomorrow...."

I'm supposed to go to another party tonight and he'd asked me to text when I got home safely, but I'm really tired (third GAL party night in a row), so I might not go.

Maybe I'll just say--later on this evening as IF I HAD gone out (not lying, just not saying either way; it's not relevant):
"I'm safe, all is well."

???

I WILL, however, take the "You are a good woman" comment as an indicator that, at least for brief moments, he does visit reality on occasion!

That's actually the nicest thing he's said to me--about me--in almost a year.
Prior to this it was pretty much "I don't understand why other people seem to like you so much, because I don't."

So I'm looking on the bright side... And laughing to myself about how wacky he is.

Funny thing, if I wasn't on this board, I'd be spinning like crazy because I would be trying to "make sense" of this nonsense. Since I know what it represents, (MLC/WAS confusion and tunnel life) it doesn't really affect me.

I'm feeling pretty detached. It's like I'm watching a movie where a character is just being weird.

Why not come right out with this: Your texts are very confusing. I hope you're alright.

This does two things:

1) Puts the onus on H to clarify (or not)
2) You're not reacting to any one of them
3) Just sticking to the facts

Wonka,

That sounds very reasonable and if he continues, I will express some concern. (Don't want to come off "motherly" or "superior" though, you know, like circling a finger around the side of my head--"You OK??? CUCK-KOOOOO!")

But I almost don't want to encourage him to add anything else to this convo by suggesting that I *want* clarification.
I don't think it's there to be had!

I think if I engage with him at all, that it will just add fuel to whatever fire he's got under his butt.

But advice taken.

We'll see if he fizzles out or keeps it up. As far as he knows, I'm at a party and not getting any of these.

Originally Posted By: GoatGal

But I almost don't want to encourage him to add anything else to this convo by suggesting that I *want* clarification.
I don't think it's there to be had!

If one wants a clarification, one would say, "What do you mean? I don't understand."

You DON'T want to rile up H by asking that ^^ type of question. Which is why I suggested a neutral tone. Simpatico.

You're right, of course.

Saying what you suggested simply tells him that:
1. I heard him
2. I care

So, good response.
But I think I will wait until much later tonight to respond. It's just too weird.

For what it's worth, I really feel like his initial texts were how he felt or wanted to feel

That he wants to be here and that he really does like me (no matter how I'm dressed.)

But I also think he's very fearful and as soon as he put that out there, he felt the strong need to retract it--BECAUSE IT MAKES HIM EMOTIONALLY VULNERABLE.

So all the rest was backpedaling.

He has wanted to be here and he has enjoyed being around me. I know he misses many things about our life.
I also believe that he is terrified.

I think he has backed himself into a corner and although he might want to come home and try again on some level, I think the fear of failure/rejection and the need for him to change things about himself is overwhelming.

I understand this. I really do.

But it's not my job to fix this for him. I don't want a man who expects me to kiss all the boo-boos and say it's fine.
It's NOT fine.

I am the one who has had their heart dragged over the coals. To expect ME to do all the heavy emotional lifting while he sits in the catbird seat where he remains "safe" isn't going to happen.

"Pave the road"? Fine.

"Roll out the Red Carpet"? Not on your life!

In any case, I see this as continued movement forward on his part. It's new (though not "improved") behavior that shows, if nothing else, that he is working things out.

I'm really glad he will not be around tomorrow!

---(G)GGG

Wonka nailed it, but I was here and not ignoring.

I'm following your "act out the boundaries" advice with my H and so confused I don't know what to suggest when a WAS/MLCer pokes the LBS.

But I'll tell you that my brother today said that men are stupid and that they have to think they've lost you to realize what bad decisions they've made. You've done a superb job of GAL and maybe your H is getting the memo? Who knows.

Hugs lady!

Hey GGG(G),
I really like Wonka's ideas about how to respond. I think you're right that the first couple texts were what he was feeling and then, when you didn't come back with "I'm so happy you still want me!" type responses he panicked and didn't want you to think HE cares at all what you are doing. The last text to me "Text me when you are safe..." sounds like he is annoyed that you are still out late and having so much fun you aren't bothering to read or respond to his texts.

With these MLCers it's ALWAYS all about them. What they want, how they feel, what they think is right or wrong...we aren't individual people to them anymore (us LBS's), they will treat us in ways, say things to us, that they would NEVER treat or say to others. Until GUBU starts to understand that you are a real person, you are who you are and not who he thinks you should be, nothing is going to change. The more you are just you, the less you respond the way he thinks you will, the more likely it will be that he will start to see you not the way he "remembers" (which we all know has nothing to do with reality) but for who you actually are right now. And that person, IMO, is a pretty darn good catch!

Thanks, Matt!
It is hard to know how to respond to this stuff, or even whether or not to respond at all!

Well, I took Wonka's advice and sent that exact text later last night.

He just responded. "Fine Night"

(As in "I'm FINE?" or "Fine..whatever..." who knows and who cares?)

So TODAY---I get this:

He sends an Instagram-edited pic of himself in his cycling clothes, guess he went for a ride this morning.
He hasn't sent me a pic of himself in years.

(Unless you count his private parts. That was nipped in the bud and no doubt annoyed him that I wouldn't play along. Come on... really?)

Anyhow, he looks awful in this one, about 100 years old, but I would never mention it. He probably knows, deep down.
Or maybe he really doesn't because he's seeing the world through his MLC goggles, and this is the same pic he's posting on his dating site!

I can only hope so. He's bound to catch a lot of quality ladies with that snapshot--NOT!!!

So then he sends: "Cold enough???? Forget last night 2 beers and Makers Mark (Bourbon)....bad cut and paste, etc. Off to graduation..."

(Yes, we will just pretend none of that ever happened. It was just the bourbon talking, and his elaborate texting style which entails lots of editing, cutting, pasting, and rewrites. On his little phone, of course. Riiiiiigggggghhhhhht. )

Then he sends: "Hey just let me know you're alive."

And I did--just said: "! was gathering firewood, cleaning up the damage from last night's storm, hope you have a great graduation ceremony, it's the one time of the year when you can really see the emotional rewards of your job and how much your work means to all those students who made it through..."

(Validate and move on. That's my motto. Stand back and let the other riders take a turn on the roller coaster. They make me sick, anyway.)

Him: "Thanks".

SSDD.

---(G)GGG

Sooo ggg the wonka text works.
Must file that one away for much later on.

Well, Ggrass,

"Works" is debatable!

I didn't make things worse. That's the important thing.
Today it's bugging me that he didn't apologize for being all weird.

Instead he says "Forget last night"... it was liquor... Just "forget" as if it happened all on its own.

Irritating.

I am so tired of this dance some days, days when I feel that even though he's making some progress, he's never going to be what I need.

I have grown so much and he is such a mess, still going down in his own flames.

It's still ALL ABOUT HIM.

I can't remember the last time he asked me if I needed anything, if I was okay, or did anything sweet for me. This is now a good several years and tonight I'm feeling lonely and fed up.

The last time I came right out and told him I was struggling, that I was breaking down physically, and he knew I had started all kinds of medications, his "solution" was for me to just LEAVE.

Gee...thanks. That's swell.

I am tired of doing all the work just to have him act ridiculous and childish, and then not even take responsibility for his actions.

Meh.

GGG, at the risk of stating the blindingly obvious, if your h is in MLC he will not behave like a 'normal' person. And they can behave a LOT worse than GUBU.

MLC is all about them, it takes a lot of time. Some of them make no progress at all, some of them do not feel any responsibility for their partner/spouse at all.

I know it is horrible, and I know you want it to be over but he isn't actually doing it on purpose.

The line of personal responsibility and the genuine MLC is a very blurry one. Yes, we want to hold them accountable, but we also know that this crisis has been a long time coming and is probably the result of childhood issues that have never been dealt with.

It feels personal and actually it isn't. Every time we take it personally we are doing ourselves a disservice. You do not 'deserve' to be treated like this. You are right to want better, but this guy can't do that right now. His problems and issues.

Beatrice,

You're right, of course. And I am aware of his incapabilities. But on some level I am feeling like I've just had enough.

There is a fear that he will quit therapy (as he did the last time he went many moons ago, and even recently before this last go-round) that if he makes changes, they will not stick, that he is RIGHT. He has problems and they are insurmountable.

I mean, at this point, I'm pretty much asking for him to change core parts of his personality. How likely is that to happen?

To have him become affectionate, open, give up all his unhealthy coping mechanisms, learn to communicate like an adult, dump the passive-aggressive stuff, learn how to please me sexually, be more fun, have better self-esteem, learn how to cooperate on projects and plan ahead, how to respond to disagreement without feeling attacked, to enjoy life, to adore me, to be grateful for the life we share, to take responsibility for his actions, to have integrity, and to be someone I can learn from as well. To be someone I can admire and respect.

Yes, MLC took some of this from him, but this experience has pointed out a lot of things to me about our previous R that I was unaware of, mostly because he is very manipulative and hid things from me.

Now that I know a lot of those secrets, those will have to change too. That's an awful lot to ask of someone who at best is ambivalent about me as any kind of partner at all.

That's where I'm at.

The only thing I keep returning to is that he was the only man in my life that I ever considered marrying. That says something.

I am picky---there haven't even been many men I've wanted to date, not since I was in my 20's and fairly naive.

So that's the round pen I'm riding around in circles today.

---(G)GGG

Quote:

The only thing I keep returning to is that he was the only man in my life that I ever considered marrying. That says something.

I am picky---there haven't even been many men I've wanted to date, not since I was in my 20's and fairly naive.

So that's the round pen I'm riding around in circles today.

Oh believe me, I can relate to that.

On many many levels my xh and I were incredibly well suited. The differences (and this sounds arrogant) is that I was interested in sorting out my issues, and my xh wasn't. And still isn't.

Would I have stayed around? Probably, but in my case he took to the hills and has remained there. In some ways he did me a favour as I haven't had to face the decision of calling time.

But I still haven't really met anyone that I liked as much as the pre MLC husband, or who I got on with as well and laughed as much with. I was replaced very quickly with one person after another, which doesn't make anyone feel like someone special. But I like me, and fortunately I like living alone!

Bea,
I'm right there w/you. I heard and nodded at everything you posted. My xh did me a huge favor and the gift he gave me was getting my old self back and I truly love being on my own.

I've dated a few men, but in my neck of the woods, all they want is a mother, i.e., someone to cook, clean and take care of them. I raised one and I'm not about to do so again. LOL!

Beatrice,

I don't know which situation is better.
Having your H take to the hills and make all the decisions for you and making it 100% clear that it's over, or one who gives you hope that things might be better?

I guess I will be able to answer that question better once my sitch is resolved, either way. But the catch is, will it EVER be "resolved"?

Won't the issues always be issues? Won't I always be on guard from now on?

I think that's why I often feel it would have been "easier" all the way around if he had died.

But that's exactly how I feel about my pre-MLC H. I don't know how many people there might be out there who would be that compatible with me.

(I'm sure it comes across here that I'm not exactly your average woman--not in terms of worthiness, but in terms of quirkiness!)

I know I could find "someone", but even in spite of our issues, H and I were very compatible in many ways.
Although, to be honest, in some core ways we are not compatible at all.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but sexually he was not exactly meeting my needs. I married him in spite of this, with full knowledge that I was accepting a less-than-stellar sex life. I suffered along with this our entire marriage, because I loved him.

I figured that it was only a small part of a relationship, and what if he had a physical issue that he couldn't help? That's the way I looked at it.
And I was completely faithful to him and "understanding" of his "problems".

It's only been recently that I discovered these "problems" were very much based in his pornography addiction, and that--physically at least--he was quite capable of having a full intimate relationship with me. That hurt me a lot.

Also was painful to learn that his excuses for why our sex life was not better were merely deflections away from his addiction, and always pointed at me as somehow being the problem.
Which I never believed--but I didn't understand why we could never have an adult conversation about why we didn't ML more, or the way I would like... believe me, I tried.
And he reacted with defensiveness, blame, withdrawal, anger... so finally I just gave up. If there is one thing I regret, this ^^^ is it.

Unfortunately, the lack of physical intimacy extended into the rest of our lives. Very little physical affection or attention. Again, I accepted this. Over time, I got used to it and found other ways to get the physical touch I craved in non-sexual ways. (DANCING!)

But pre-MLC he definitely had some issues, like passive-aggression and manipulation. Because of my Asperger's, I was VERY easily manipulated.

I have since learned about the techniques he used (typical) and they don't work on me any more. I learn and adapt. So I am no longer willing to live with that dynamic.

And he is aware that the scales have fallen from my eyes, that his tactics no longer work on me, and that I won't tolerate that kind of baloney any more. From anyone. EVER.

In a nutshell (NITTY!), he would have to change A LOT to make being with him a better option than being ALONE.

---(G)GGG

Quote:

I've dated a few men, but in my neck of the woods, all they want is a mother, i.e., someone to cook, clean and take care of them. I raised one and I'm not about to do so again. LOL!

If anyone knows a neck of the woods where that isn't (usually) the case they should keep very quiet about it, otherwise there might just be a stampede LOL

Not talking about younger men here, who seem to be much more together. And apologies to the many fine men here who post. Just sayin . . .

GGG My xh's issues were different - and more resolvable, paradoxically!!

You might find it helpful to talk to someone who specialises in dealing with marriages where the partner is addicted to pornography. Understanding the sources of this, and how to manage your response might be helpful - just a thought. With the easy availability of pornography via the internet it is a growing problem.

More seriously your husband probably needs to be careful. It is very easy to start downloading stuff which is illegal, without quite knowing how it got to that.

My understanding of pornography is that it can escalate . . . . sorry if I have strayed into painful territory, but I know people who have had some experience of this. The internet seems anonymous, and that is one of the problems. But it isn't, it can be very traceable.

No, bea, don't be sorry.

I am well-educated on the subject and very aware of how is has affected my life, his life, and our M.

He is pretty secretive about his therapy, I suspect because of the shame, but there is a component of sexual therapy going on.

It's not something we're even close to working out as a couple. He's still at the point of coming out of his denial and learning how it was a contributing factor to the demise of our marriage.

As for him being careful, well, I can't make him do anything. He already had ongoing unprotected sex with his OW and for a number of reasons that was a very, very bad idea.

He has admitted that his use had escalated and he started viewing more and more things that previously disgusted him. And then wanted to act those things out with OW, I suspect, from some things he said off the cuff.

One of the many reason why she probably dumped him.

He has essentially ruined himself for any type of loving, considerate, non-kinky lovemaking. Too boring. Too intimate emotionally...

The list is long... very long.

And I am sick and tired of having a SSM for 23 years+ because of this.

GGG I can only imagine - it is desperately sad for you.

I am not a standard issue woman either ! (if such a thing exists) and have always been very independent, run my own business etc.

Yeah, beatrice, we independent types are atypical.

I saw a show recently (one of many enlightening programs I watch to understand how other people work since it doesn't come naturally) that was all about dating: Alpha males, Beta males, Alpha 1/2, submissive females, dominant females, independent females.

Granted, not all that scientific, but an interesting commentary on human nature.

Supposedly, most men are attracted to submissive females. Duh!
However, many men get involved with domineering/dominant type females and get frustrated with them.

Truly independent women (who have no need to dominate and only want a equal, strong partner) are harder to pair up. We need a man who is also independent, but loving and strong.

I don't WANT to have to be the one to decide/fix/plan/initiate. It drives me nuts. I would like to do exactly half! I don't want to be the "I don't know, whatever YOU want, darling.. I have no will of my own..." type either.

(Interestingly, this is H's OW type to a tee. Someone he can feel superior to and "in-charge". The fact that he was the top boss over her and everyone else probably didn't hurt her perception of him as a powerful man. Which he is not. I'm a lot harder to feel superior to, and if that's what he needs to feel in order to function sexually, count me out.)

I don't "need" to be right or have things "my way". I want a partner who is confident enough in himself to have a strong voice in the R.

This does not describe my H. Before, during, OR after.
It may look as though I'm dominant, and no doubt H even feels that way.

But it's because he is PASSIVE. It falls to me time and time again to make decisions.... but that's not the way I want it.

I don't want to be the one to tell him what to do. But he asks... because he doesn't seem to be able to figure it out on his own.

This is one of the things I've learned. Who I am and what I need.
I do not need, nor do I want passive, covert-aggressive, Mr. (Pretend) Nice Guy.

The "I'll just act like a nice guy, but do what I want behind your back. Nanna Nanna Boo-Boo, stick your head in doo-doo."

Quote:

I don't WANT to have to be the one to decide/fix/plan/initiate. It drives me nuts. I would like to do exactly half! I don't want to be the "I don't know, whatever YOU want, darling.. I have no will of my own..." type either.

Interestingly my xh's women are the passively controlling type - if you know what I mean. Whereas I really want a consultative relationship, where both partners have a real say.

I own and operate my own chainsaw, but I also like silk underwear and high heeled shoes!!

Quote:

I do not need, nor do I want passive, covert-aggressive, Mr. (Pretend) Nice Guy.

I am so with you on that one too.

I have opinions, but I like to hear the opinions of others - my friends do not have to agree with me!!

Bea, I'm with you with the silky lingerie and chainsaw!!!!

I have a tractor and seamed stockings... and a 1930's vintage hairstyle.

Oh yes, I am so with you on seamed stockings!! and cuban heels!!

Perhaps we had better stop or we will have the men fanning themselves!

Yeah, lots of men, excluding my husband.

Hahahah.

Quote:

Yes, MLC took some of this from him, but this experience has pointed out a lot of things to me about our previous R that I was unaware of, mostly because he is very manipulative and hid things from me.

Sometimes, in this process, we outgrow our spouses. Or at least, take off our rose-colored glasses.

Several years past my divorce, and I am STILL figuring out things that were probably lies during my marriage and I was oblivious to them.

Yep, kml.

Rose colored glasses are definitely OFF.

And if he doesn't start sprouting soon, I will outgrow him for sure.

Here's a Theme Song for all you DBers.

It's "Jilted" by the Puppini Sisters!

This little ditty always gets me in the perfect mood as I microwave my sad little dinner and sit down to watch yet another Netflix movie--alone--in between stoking the fire. Yep. It's that time of year, folks!
Too bad I don't have a nice big glass of Pinot Noir to go with my Stouffer's Swedish Meatballs. (No wonder I'm losing weight. Blech.)

"Jilted"

Verse: I bought another dinner for one
I sit and watch some pointless re-run
And the tears fall down...
'Cause this is not what I had planned

I stare at all the books on the shelf
On how to help or better myself
Lot of good they've done
Another one's gone to hell

Chorus: Hmmm I've been jilted again
He packed his bags and left whistling a happy song
I jumped through hoops to keep that man
Oh how did I get it so wrong?

I tried new positions
I learned his friends names
I made myself sit through football games
Oh, Been jilted
Been jilted again
--------------
Verse: So this is when self pity sets in
And ominous predictions begin
Will I end my days... alone and reaching for the gin?

Talking to myself and the cat
Weeping at the drop of a hat
Oh for goodness sake
I can do better than that!

Chorus: Hmmm I've been jilted again
He packed his bags and left whistling a happy song
I jumped through hoops to keep that man
Oh how did I get it so wrong?

I tried new positions
I learned his friends names
I made myself sit through football games
Oh, Been jilted
Been jilted again

[Scat]
----------------------
Verse: Well things are gonna change from now on
I think those self help books are a con!
So be sure next time--- my geisha ways will all be gone. (Wah-wah-wah-wah)

Won't try to please and always be nice
Or trust the Cosmo quiz for advice
I'll just be myself...
And see if that will suffice

Chorus: Hmm I've been jilted again
But hey, good riddance! I don't think that he was meant for me
I jumped through hoops to keep that man
But now he's gone I'm finally free!

To try new ambitions!
And learn new friends names!
And wash my hair through those football games!

Hmmm, been jilted...
....Good riddance...
....Been jilted again....

Cheers!

---(G)GGG

"Looks like the square dance is gonna be going late tonight, Pardners!

"Guess GUBU is hitting the old moonshine bottle and getting' all playful with this Goat Gal by using that thar newfangled contraption y'all refer to as the TEXT MESSAGING!"

"I stepped away from the campfire for an itty bitty moment and my E-Lect-TRONIC DE-vice lit up like a Lightnin' Bug with his haunches a-flamin!"

------------------------------------

H had texted me the sad news about Mike from the PBS radio program "Car Talk" dying today at age 71. (We were always fans, listened every weekend ever since we got together. Old cars, dontcha know.)

My first response was "Sh*t. Didn't know that. How sad. End of an era."

H: "Complications from Alzheimers"

Me: "And so bright. Must have been a terrible blow to his family.'

Nothing for a couple hours, then this little GEM! (Humor? Really?)

H:"Who are you? Did you eat Goat Gal??? "A terrible blow...etc..."
SHE would never say that... GN"

(Guess that means Good Night)

I was just sitting there with my mouth hanging open.
I mean, it's hard not to try and analyze this stuff!
I know it's just more craziness, but bear with me. It's like a puzzle, and I love puzzles!

1. He thinks he's got me pigeon-holed as someone who would NEVER SAY "terrible blow to his family!"
What an incredibly odd and out-of-character choice of words for someone who is so wordy and a real mistress of the oddly turned phrase and convoluted metaphor. (NOT!!!)
He thinks he knows me so well!
You guys wouldn't bat an eye, would you?

BI-ZARRO!!!

2. He thinks I'm still one way, some way, that he does or doesn't remember or want to remember, or the other way, or some other way he hasn't thought of yet, or

3. He doesn't like how I'm changing and he's trying to figure out what I'm up to, or

4. the moon is getting full (it is), or

5. He's HAMMERED and reaching out again.

I'm going with this last bit, lucky door #5!
(What did I win, Wonka? What did I win????)

Anyhow, I was tickled, so I responded: "Ummmm... I just did....?" (say that)

Purposefully vague and weirdly mirrors what he said.

Then I added: "I am a tapestry of many colors."
Oooohhhh.... Trippy!!!

(I wanted to say, "have a few more belts and get back to me. I can use some additional entertainment!" but I didn't.)

He writes back: "HA. HA. GN"

What a wack-job.

Guess this is his new phase of metamorphosis.
I am curious to see what form the next phase takes and if it creeps me out more than this particular manifestation.

---(G)GGG

You're so funny, GGG.

Yes! That's it! I like puzzles too! My counselor says I'm very analytical in the sense that I always try to figure out the what and why.

I have always been like that with people (not so much data and that boring stuff... no offense to anyone

). But I loved psychology classes and things like that. Kind of Freudian thinking, I suppose.

But yes! I tend to think... what the? why the? Not so much because I'm stuck on it. Just the way I've always thought... I'm a people thinker, I presume.

You, too, my lady! Yee ha!

The square dancing thing.... one funny thing s17 and I used to do when he was little.... I taught him how to promenade. He had no idea what the heck it was from. But we would do it all the time to be silly. Now we laugh about it and all the corny stuff we used to do. I love it.

And still... you crack me up.

Sorry for this "terrible blow" but I've gotta go...

Mighty, you hang in there. You've got lots going on... still Mighty I see!

GGG,

I find this interesting:

Originally Posted By: GGGWhoIsTrulyAWoman

H had texted me the sad news about Mike from the PBS radio program "Car Talk" dying today at age 71. (We were always fans, listened every weekend ever since we got together. Old cars, dontcha know.)

My first response was "Sh*t. Didn't know that. How sad. End of an era."

H: "Complications from Alzheimers"

Me: "And so bright. Must have been a terrible blow to his family.'

Nothing for a couple hours, then this little GEM! (Humor? Really?)

H:"Who are you? Did you eat Goat Gal??? "A terrible blow...etc..."
SHE would never say that... GN"

This made me wonder if GUBU is flummoxed by the new GGG who has figured out some social cues and not too stuck in the Asperber's peg hole. Am I warm or cold?

I thought it was a nice cool response by saying you're a tapestry of color. You did not react at all to H's piss poor attempt to peg you as the old GGG. It is apparent that your reactions and interactions are really throwing off GUBU. Obviously you've grown quite bit since DBing and his little Aspie woman isn't where he left her a while ago.

I also think it's some of #5 as well. What GUBU's problem is that he's sick from his own poorly homemade moonshine!!!! Something's definitely off with his formula.

Wonka, your guess is as good as mine at this point.

I think my social skills are better than average now because I work so hard at it. Harder than most, anyway, and I'm hyper-aware. It's just not something that comes naturally.

And yes, using vaguely stilted phrases like "terrible blow" has always been in keeping with my "character" such as it is!

I'm betting bad moonshine has a lot to do with it!

---(G)GGG

GGG, great song! I�ve been thinking along these lines recently

.

I�m also the analytical type, so I always want to figure things out. Interesting thing is that your H is analyzing YOU. I agree with Wonka and I like your response too. I wish I could think of answers like that. But, I guess I lost my skills with H being MIA for so long.

Hi Bright! Yep. You, Mighty, Me...we analytical types need to hang together and figure out the world!

I do suspect that H is examining me a bit more closely these days. Just looking back over his shoulder to make sure he had the right glasses on. :

The spew I got from him last year has been gone for months now. I wonder if he even remembers the things he accused me of, and the crazy stuff he used as "justification" for why leaving me was the only viable solution.

Too many canvas shopping bags by the front door!
Call the firing squad!

The Crime: Being Environmentally Responsible!

All I can say is the stuff I am learning here is working for me. It may even be working for GUBU.

At least things have calmed down a lot and he is---for lack of a better word---MORPHING.

The Amoeba may be gone, to be replaced by something more highly evolved.

I'll let you all know when I discover what that might be.

It will certainly be an interesting presentation at the next microbiology conference!

Do they still use "Power Point"?

---(G)GGG

So a bit of a low point today...

I don't know why, but grocery shopping is emotional for me. It's hard to get used to not buying things that H likes, and because my appetite and motivation are low, I find myself buying this junk that I would never eat before.
I get crappy frozen microwave meals, convenience foods, comfort foods. I am just barely maintaining my current weight and it's not good. I find I'm just trying to get fast calories in.
Yes. I know I deserve better and I do cook for myself, it's just easier sometimes to nuke something and eat it mindlessly in front of the TV.

So I'm in the store, watching all these couples, young and old, shopping together, talking and laughing, and I'm feeling...sad. Sad that my partner doesn't want me anymore.
And yes. Feeling sorry for myself.

Next I'm in the aisle to buy a card for my best friend who just became a grandmother. She is over the moon. So it's "Congrats on your Baby Girl" cards, all bright and happy about the future.

And here's me. Never adopted the kids I thought I might because H finally decided "NO KIDS". Not even a foster or fresh-air fun kid for the summer.

I am feeling cheated and discarded. And my eyes drift to the Anniversary cards... "To my Wife", "To My Husband"... then it's "Happy Thanksgiving!" and even "Merry Christmas"...and at this point I'm ready just to leave my cart and walk out of the store.

I am trying to keep from tearing up, doing all my silent affirmations, holding my head up, focusing on the bright side, and I manage to continue shopping without becoming a blubbering mess.

I get to the checkout counter and wonder where the clerk has gone to.
--------------------------------------------------------------

She's in the adjacent aisle, helping a severely disabled man check out his items.
He had limited use of most of his body; she had to get out his wallet to get his credit card, organize his groceries on his cart.

And I had a reality check. Here I am, Goat Gal, feeling sorry for myself when here is this man who can't even lift his arm to get out his wallet!

I was ashamed of myself.

I looked for him afterwards to see if he needed assistance getting his items into his vehicle and wondering how on earth he was going to do that alone.

Turns out, he has to ride his motorized wheelchair down a busy street with no shoulder or sidewalk, hoping he doesn't get run over, to his residence somewhere down the road.

Where's that "Gratitude Thread"? Because it's days like these when I realize that even those of us who are in the worst sitch EVER have it great compared to this person, who, as it turns out from a sticker on his chair, is a Veteran.

HE has my gratitude and I wish I could have told him.

Oh, and I am also grateful for all the women who came before me, the Suffragists and advocates for equal rights for women, because it is only because of their efforts that I had the right to vote today.

And vote I did.

---(G)GGG

Hey GGG(G)!
I know what you mean with them forgetting all the spew of "reasons" we are the devil and the cause for all suffering in the world! I was accused of all sorts of nefarious things that had NEVER crossed my mind, only to be dropped and replaced with "I can't stand the way you chew your food...it bothers me". I will tell you I became a different person with my W after her depression. I became much more "passive" and tried to let her make many more decisions than before only because I never knew how she would react. Sometimes we become the type of person who our S tells us they want, whether that is truly what they want or not!

I try to stay far away from the greeting card aisle myself. I got my W a card on her birthday last week and some of those Hallmark moment cards were brutal! Always good to think of all that you have to be grateful for. So, easy to let our rotten sitchs with our S's color our thoughts of what we DON'T have!

More Weirdness Down at the Barn, Y'all!
(Warning: Long, Dramatized, Gruesome Post Ahead, Parts of Which Require Subtitles.)

Pull up your three legged stools here by the campfire, roll a smoke (or two), grab a plate of grub and maybe a jug of moonshine, make sure your pony is tied and fed, and settle in to listen to my tale...
--------------------------------------------------------------
So H was here early this evening due to an appointment and we had a chance to chat a bit.

Sidenote: Still locking his truck, I see. I can only assume that's to prevent ME from snooping in there and finding---what, exactly? His Canadian Viagra?

I can't imagine why he'd be locking his truck up here during daylight hours when he's only here for 45 minutes if he didn't have something to hide... but I digress.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Today at the Triple GGG Ranch I have been dealing with farm chores and animals most of the day, except for getting out to vote.

(Thank you, Suffragettes!)

My oldest hen, from the first flock of chicks I ever raised and the only one still with us, has been showing her age.
Poor old Hazel has been slowly declining and every day I've seen it. I thought I was prepared to "handle" it when the time came. I thought lots of things... about so many things since BD.
I knew that she was sick this morning and knew I needed to make a decision about how to handle it.
Instead, I procrastinated.
In previous days, I would have acted. Now I am feeling detached from so many things. I wonder sometimes if that's healthy. I think it is not.

I have TRIED to put previous suffering chickens out of their misery.
I *know* "how"... I just... can't.
I can't cause harm like that. It's not in my nature.
I want to alleviate suffering.
I am willing to bear the grief of losing them, but I can't do it with my bare hands.
I can't do the many things people do to slaughter animals or even put them out of their misery. It's a weakness.

To do it with my hands is--too personal.
I can give them a shot, give them a pill, give them some anesthetic. But not with my hands, the hands who have cared for them. My hands are to help, not to kill.

(So much for surviving the Zombie Apocalypse, although I think I'd be much more effective dispatching the Undead! I have lots of BRAINS, which makes me very desirable.)

I usually end up taking the random chipmunk/mouse/chicken to the vet for humane euthanasia-- or at least making the appointment only to find them dead before I bring them in.
To the tune of about $35.
I have even "practiced" on dead hens (died naturally) and I just can't make myself do it. (Do a cervical dislocation. Google it.)
------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, Cowhands, Y'all might as well get good and comfy around the campfire. Use your trusty saddles and blankets to pillow your heads because this is gonna be a long story... and the coyotes will be a-howlin..."

(Mostly this will be "unedited" because H brought me a really nice bottle of Pinot Noir (my favorite) and I am drinking it here alone. Alone. Again. Hey--Let's not disrupt a winning streak! How many nights alone can I handle? UNLIMITED!!!!!)
-------------------------------------------------------------------

So I texted H when I realized I wasn't going to be able to send old Hazel over the Rainbow Bridge as my conscience required.

I say: "I'll do it. I can do it. But bring a bottle of wine so I don't have to do it stone cold sober." (Pathetic. Really pathetic.)

He says: "Don't worry. If you can't do it, I will."

He comes.
He brings the wine.
We talk about Hazel.
We talk about the ten thousand chickens who burned to death in a barn fire today, "Did you get the email link about it that incident that I sent you?" he asks.
(Yes. Didn't open the attachment. Didn't need to see a video about chickens burning alive. Thank you.)

We open the wine. We talk about the farm animals. Coywolves. Coyotes. Bears. The Great Horned Owl I've heard in the woods behind our house. Snakes. Foxes....
Chihuahuas, BEWARE!

He thinks he saw a dead Coywolf on the side of the road last night.
I tell him I think that was what was driving the dogs crazy last night in our dooryard.
I saw something, not a fox, not a dog, not a wolf... skulking around my studio building and the dogs were barking their heads off.

This morning I found a dead squirrel. Well, not a whole squirrel. Just a tail with a foot. I think it's the Coywolf.
He says "No, THAT (squirrel parts) was in the studio with the cats."
What? Now those kitties are killing giant squirrels?
Now there's a dead snake in the studio.
Did the cats kill it? Maybe.
Was it a Copperhead?
Don't think so. Maybe a poor little Garter Snake.
It was black. Isn't that a Rat Snake?
Maybe. Maybe just a Garter Snake/Garden Snake... anyhow not poisonous, just sad that they killed it.
He says: "No. I think they found it. (the giant dead squirrel parts) I think it was a Coywolf that killed it."

I am thinking: "Goat Gal is a pretty tough cookie as far as animals go--ripping the heads off my pets not withstanding---but maybe she should have a shotgun..."

I am thinking: "WTF am I doing living here like this all alone with freaking Copperheads, Black Widows, and Brown Recluse Spiders? Black Bears, Coywolves, and the crazy drunken rednecks that live down the road and know I'm here alone?"
(No insult intended to people of Appalachian descent. These are proud Rednecks by CHOICE, not by BIRTH.)

"WTF am I DOING here, living in this crazy situation without a man or anyone who I can call upon to help me deal with the freaking Zombie Apocalypse and no giant machete/crossbow/sawed off shotgun?"

Then it's back to poor old Hazel.
Turns out we are both wusses. He didn't even volunteer to "man up" and do the deed, although he talked a big game.
To be honest, so did I.

So neither one of us is really cut out to be a farmer.
Which is why this entire venture is such a huge mistake!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

We are stupid city kids struggling along without a clue.
We both know it. We are both embarrassed by it, especially at the feed store.
The locals know it too.

We are "Yuppie Farmers". But worse, because our farm MAKES NO MONEY.
IT COSTS MONEY!
How dumb is that?

Farming is not a lifestyle for vegetarian liberals... seriously. We can't kill it. And we won't eat it. If we "rescue" it, it costs us time, money, and physical labor.
Bring on the farm animals!!!!
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Are you entertained yet?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

So here's the part you've all been waiting for, the DBing part:

I say "Hazel has mites...She must have been debilitated for some time to get loaded with parasites. But I know she's dying because the mites jumped onto me and I can feel them crawling on my face..."

He (60s) gets out his "readers" so he can look at my face to see these mites.
Nope. He doesn't see anything. He makes fun of me for thinking there are bugs on me.
But I finally get a Q-tip and some alcohol and swab some of those suckers to show him. Look! Those little black dots! That's THEM!!!!

At which point he is decisive when he says he does NOT want to dispatch poor old Hazel because the bugs might get on him. (They would.)

But here he is, looking closely at my face. Closer to me than he has been in a year, looking at me more intently than he has in longer than that.
He can't see the bugs. He thinks I'm crazy...

But then... he sees one. And he understands that I am NOT crazy and that I DO have bugs crawling on my body!
------------------------------------------------------------------

Then I start looking at him. Closely. More closely than I have in a year.

It just comes out of my mouth: "Wow. Your face is so SMOOTH. Did you just shave?"
He shakes his head.
I repeat: "You look so....cleanly shaven... it looks GOOD...." and before I edited myself, I just tentatively reached out a finger and ran it along his jaw....

He didn't flinch, he just stood stock still.
As I realized that was the first time I had touched him in a personal way since last fall, when he smelled so nice when he left for work that a brief embrace turned into me kissing his cheek---and he recoiled (in seeming disgust), and told me never to "do that to him again."

I later said, "It just happened, you smelled so nice, I felt safe... But--No worries, I'll never make that mistake again."
Little did I know that at that time last November he had already contacted a lawyer to discuss what it would take to divorce me...but I digress. Again.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, had to get another BIG glass of Pinot Noir....

So we're talking about Hazel, and the older Chihuahua, Prudence, who is going to the vet tomorrow to have a scary growth checked out... and the goats' hooves which need trimming again, and the fact that tomorrow I have to strip out and disinfect the entire chicken coop to treat for the mites that we now know have infested everything...

...and how H has finally convinced me that Poe, the handsome, black, young, vibrant, testosterone-driven rooster, (that he can't stand because he makes Bart, the older rooster, feel inadequate), has to go to a new home. (Okay. Whatever.)

I say I'll take him this weekend... and there's more talk about the animals, etc.

And then he calls me "Honey".

I don't recall what he said afterwards, only that he slipped and said it.

It is the only pet name that he has for me that I can share because of the G-rating.

I don't think he realized he said it.

The other night in his crazy text, he used my name.

"What happened to Goat Gal, did you eat her?"

This is all new and too much to digest.

There is still "something" there. I don't know what it is, but I guess I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Things are different. I can feel it.
I don't know if he will ever be what I need him to be.

Yet---tonight he was talking about when we had ran a wild bird sanctuary and had various songbirds and raptors that we rescued and released back into the wild...how he thought that I was the softy who couldn't do the cervical dislocation (true).
But it was the first time in a long time when he brought up our old life together, all the good things we did, the commitment to a shared goal....

So, yeah. Different.

I don't know where it will lead, if anywhere, but I definitely feel him warming to me as the wonderful woman he married. Whether or not that woman can compete with online fantasy remains to be seen.

Baby steps forward. We are taking baby steps and I have no expectations.

------------------------------------------------------------

Time to go ask Cooky to check his five alarm chili and make sure he's added enough chili powder... and BEANS!

I LOVE me some gosh-darned BEANS!
Y'all roll you s'more tobaccy and settle down to hear the end of my tale.

And no worries if y'all are gassy.
We can use the additional methane to power my "Off the Grid" iPad.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know if this is apparent, DBers. But I am, in fact, lonely.

It's an odd thing for me because it's rare that I am alone enough to notice it.

But I know myself well enough to see that the fact that I am on this board communicating with people with whom I would actually like to communicate in person, and that it's a poor substitute for real, human interaction...

I need to get out more. Seriously.
I sent a text to H just now that Hazel is gone.

That I will disinfect the coop for mites, and will get the beautiful black rooster, Poe, to his new home this weekend.

That I will do all the dirty work which needs doing.
That's my job, right?

Hope y'all get a good night's sleep around the campfire, with your bellies full and your heads full of yodeling dreams....

Tomorrow is another day. If you're not up early, we'll be burning daylight.
We have D busting work to do!

H is gone.

Wine is gone.

All that's left is to get safely to bed once the fire is stoked.

A hell of a life.

----(G)GGG

Originally Posted By: GoatGal

Yep, kml.

Rose colored glasses are definitely OFF.

And if he doesn't start sprouting soon, I will outgrow him for sure.

Nods, sounds like you and I are twins. I feel exactly the same, expect mines not talking.
Setting the lawyer on him will make him less inclined to talk to me tho, I'm now officially the enemy.

Oh, sweetie.

(I don't usually use that term but I want to reach right through the screen and give you a long tight hug because MY GOD what a roller coaster.)

GoatGal, you goddess.

Well, dear, let's figure this out.

And by the way, are you doing NaNoWriMo? Because you write so vividly.

I'm sorry about Hazel and Poe. And the mite de-festation effort. And I hope Prudence is all right.

i wish I knew what else to say. I can only imagine what it felt like to hear Honey.

One more big, long, tight hug from me, and I'll be thinking of you.

Heck yeah! You were meant for Nanowrimo! Start today!!!!

Thanks, (((Maybell)))) and kml.

What the heck is HoHoWriteMotelSloMo?

Lol

National novel writing month.

Check it out. I'm pretty sure if I wrote all the words I spill here over there that I'd have my 50,000 words in two weeks.

National Novel Writing month. Look it up. Every November, people gather online and in coffee houses to write a 50,000 word novel in one month. No editing, no censoring.....just focus on spitting out 50k words and worry about whether it's any good later.

Kml, Jinx! You owe me a soda.

Hey GGG(G),
Hope GUBU is finally realizing just how stupid losing you would be. Let's just hope he is maybe coming out of his tunnel. In the end, it's going to be up to you to decide if you have outgrown HIM! Just be careful and watch those expectations, he may need more baking!

You go Queen of the Goats!

Oh Goatgal....you have brought some bat-inspiration to my rather batless life for the past while.

The dark knighteth returneth and I have brought a bottle of french canadian bat Merlot & Riesling!

That is SOOOO encouraging that your H has warmed up to you...baby toddler steps rawk.

and yes I think you should belt out your harmonious jazzy voice in triumph! I have been kareoking like a fiend twice a week...and even go by myself! let the good times roll as I sing every sad 1980s Richard Marx song that I can!!

But for you today I sing "Wagonwheel" by Darius Rucker...cause I am a canuck bat version and its a good honkey tonk song

http://youtu.be/hvKyBcCDOB4

keep up the good work...and please the novel writing should be a screen play....with us singing a bat duet...((hugs)) Ray xo

hey hi-

I was reading your post about crying in the foodstore. I know, me too. like you, i can always see someone worse off, or know of them - and make myself man up and get past it.

something about the time we 've spent in foodstores, picking up someone elses favorite thing- a treat...

i'm lonely too- i feel cheated because i didn't have kids also. . Nobody had a gun to my head- it was half my decision also - i DID however loosely plan to have this guy in my life forever, which he lied and lied to further. who the heck knows about this junk - it sure is junk.

. I still feel that nobody has everything- we all get some of this, and not some of that. there are many tradeoffs and decisions in life- we do the best we can. maybe i spent too much time being grateful for what i did have - to wo rry about what i did not.

ANYWAY- YOU SOUND okay tho, i think it's natural to be lonely- better to acknowledge it than to shove it all down all the time. life alone is not pleasant.

i can remember times when i'd have killed for some solitued- ha!!! that saying about "if you got half your 2wishes - you'd double your trouble" sure seems true.

funny old life isn't it?

anyway- i couldn't kill a chicken ei ther - i'm even squirmie about bugs these days. i gu ess the more vulnerable we are- the more we respect the vulnerability of otehrs. animals are people too.

oh well- onward and upward. wish i had something smart today- KNOW YOU'RE IN GOOD company- and good for you to hone in on the good stuff - positive potential in you.

i think (gulp) we'll come out of this okay (someday) - i'm pretty darn sure - so as long as we're takin those steps forward -

fall down 23, get up 24...

xxoo have a great day (or try anyway) and you're soooo rite about the voting - now if there were only some such thing in this life and country as REAL & total equality for women- but it's waaay better than it ever was before - soooo - we keep movin forward rite??

xxoo

GoatGal, where've you been?

Yeah....where are you, GGG? Did you fall into the swamp in the back of your house?

Not meaning to hijack or anything, but I can sure relate to being lonely. Just in the past few weeks, I've seemed to have noticed it more and more.

I don't know....maybe you get past the heartache or mostly past it, then the loneliness sets in...Just babbling out loud.

Tad

GoatGal, you're worrying me... Pop your head in and say hi, ok?

Awwww. Shoot, y'all...

Sorry if I caused any worries!
(But it's nice to know I'm missed!)
Thanks Maybell, Wonka, for checking in on me.

I've just been doing a LOT of thinking, not as much GALing, but I have been woodshedding pretty non-stop for this recording project, and the music is going very well indeed.

Turns out this project has taken on a life of its own and now I'm doing some of my own arrangements, and perhaps even some of my own songs.
There have been offers to back me up on any gigs I can get, as well as performing with some area bands.

This is great news for me and my future.
----------------------------------------------------------------

I have been laying low and just pampering myself; eating well and getting my head straight, getting to bed early after a good dinner and a hot lavender bath, taking my vitamins and getting plenty of exercise.

This coming weekend I have a big dance event and that will pretty much be like running a marathon, and I just wanted to feel rested and strong; I plan to burn up the floor and bare my soul...
-----------------------------------------------------------------

As for GUBU, it's about the same.
I still get the oddball texts (now I am sort of used to them so I they're not as funny as they were, but still pretty strange.)
He is back to telling me his whereabouts, has been staying here later, planning his weekends around mine, pretty much here every night right after work, then back to his friend's place.

If he is having some exciting life, I see no evidence of it. He listens, barely, when I mention anything I've got going, and his lack of enthusiasm is no surprise either.

He never did take his bass guitar and amplifier to "his" place, as he threatened to do. I think I am correct that that statement was only to tell me "hands off" his instrument because I might have "too much fun" with it!

He has shared little things with me about work, fixing the lawnmower... just day-to-day inconsequential stuff. We talk about the dogs, the problems they're having, who's have what procedure done.

This week he doesn't seem as perky as he has. This is also the first weekend when I did not go out, so he didn't stay over. I just saw him for a bit each day as we did a few chores together. He's been riding his bike each morning, and, I suspect, drinking a lot at night. He looks TERRIBLE.

If he were to ever actually GO out with one of his online dating targets, I doubt they'd find much to be attracted to. Even with my "Marriage-Goggles" on with our good history, prior to BD, I don't see an attractive man there at all.
It's sad, really.
----------------------------------------------------------------

For you ladies who were fans of the "Cock-Of-The-Walk", the broad shouldered Big Black Rooster, Poe, he has found a new home with plenty of chicks to chase around.
H convinced me that the senior rooster, Bart, just had to have his place back. Yup. That's what he said. Now he keeps talking about how much "Happier Bart is now."
And Bart IS happier, but it's hard not to see the parallel here.
------------------------------------------------------------------

I have had a few benchmark behaviors I have been looking for to see if H was making any progress in terms of his thoughts about our M.

So far, he has done nothing for me other than to leave me a beer. (Guess when he has an 'extra' he can part with.)

He has yet to ask if I need anything, if he can help me, or ask how I'm doing.
He will do things like buy gourmet pizza and eat it in the car on the way over, but doesn't think to get a few slices for me, even knowing full well that I'm having trouble keeping my weight up. (Yes, he does know.)

On the other hand, I am doing some small Acts of Service for him, like bringing him a hot thermos of coffee when he's been out cutting logs, that sort of thing.

If I ASK if he'd like x-y-z, he usually says "No thanks."
It *feels* to me that he doesn't want me to do anything for him.
CAUTION: MINDREADING ALERT!!!!

I *think* he feels like such crap, that the idea that I'd be nice enough to do anything for him almost makes him feel worse.
I *think* that he needs to believe the things he told himself about me that justified his actions.
If I am kind and forgiving, fun and sexy, funny, upbeat, and fun to be around, have similar interests and many things in common, not to mention ongoing projects where I can swing a hammer too... well, that all kind of messes with his head.

And on that endeavor, I can say that I AM, in fact, giving him a run for his money!
There is really nothing he can point to to say "See? And THAT's why I need to get away from her." He's got ZIP.

And I *think* this is starting to pile on pretty deep in MLC GUBU's psyche.
He's got to wonder what he's running from and be aware of what he's destroying.
And what kind of woman he's throwing under the bus.

(Where she has the nerve to throw a party!

)
-------------------------------------------------------------------

So far, three big announcements about "wanting to talk about the future" but still not a peep. I'm not helping him on this one.

It occurred to me the other night that, "wanting to talk about the future" probably doesn't mean about the divorce. I *think* the wording would have been different.
I *think* he would have said something more like "We need to talk about moving ahead/how to move forward/how to start the process...."

Then again, "Listen to nothing he SAYS" right?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I went out on a bit of a limb today; just mentioned that I was going to make a Thanksgiving dinner for myself since I have no invitations and I want to enjoy my holliday... and that he'd be welcome to join me.

I stupidly tied this with asking if we could finally bury our little dog that weekend, since she's been in the deep-freeze for a few months now, so when he said "Um... we'll see..." I'm not sure if he meant the meal or the burial. I *think* looking back, that he meant the burial, but I wouldn't swear to it.

Either way, I'm fine. I'll have a nice meal alone, and if he wants to eat, that's up to him. NO EXPECTATIONS. I have a big dance event the day after, and great plans through my birthday in Feb. (and anniversary of getting the D papers.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting things:

He acts and speaks as though we will both be in this same spot (me living here, him being here on some level) through the next year at least.

He informed me that I should wait until I get new glasses because he increased "our' health insurance to include vision benefits this year.

What the heck.., I'm going with it.
I am grateful that he is keeping me on the insurance. Guess he will continue until we're divorced. He does value his ability to provide, so...

He says "we" and "our", instead of "me", "mine", and "you/yours". Whatever that might mean. Nothing, something, or he's forgotten he's filed for divorce.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

I have experimented with very small touches, on his shoulder to get his attention when he's had the protective earmuff on, that sort of thing.

All I can say about that is he doesn't flinch. As he has in the past. But I wouldn't say he's exactly lingering at my touch.

He still appears to be locking his truck (so I don't snoop" And find what? I shudder to think). I try not to let this hurt my feelings. Yet it does. I'm working on that.

I have completely STOPPED LOOKING AT ANY AND ALL STATEMENTS which would give me an indicator of any of his activities.

I don't look at the banking, credit cards, nothing.
I made a point of handing him "his" last credit card bill without even opening it.
As if to say "I couldn't care less what you're up to." And for the most part, that's true.

Not having any intel has helped my detaching quite a bit.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Although I want to ask him if he's still in therapy, I don't. He has not missed his chores due to a therapy appointment at least. Don't know. Nothing I can do about it.

He is, however, still writing and now he is READING. I *think* he wants me to ask him what he's reading because he's mentioned it in his nighttime texts several times now. I figured the next time, I'd bite and ask him about it.

He's never been a reader except for the rare book, and the way he talks about this "reading" sounds as though it's "homework" as I think the "writing" has been.

(I hope he's reading all the books we recommend!!!!! Wouldn't that be something?)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Now for the part they all said would come.

That at some point, it comes down to the LBS to decide whether or a future R would be possible with the WAS/MLCer.

I am approaching that point. The point where I am becoming detached enough that I can see things more clearly and wondering whether or not I'd ever want this man in my life again.

There has been so much pain, so much hurt and trust destroyed... he has treated me so terribly, not just BD and infidelity and all that, but looking back I think the emotional distancing and sexual coldness/lack of affection and attention bordered on emotional abuse.

Yes, he was a good guy in many ways, but now I'm starting to wonder if I accepted too much. I am feeling happier on my own than being with him and having to deal with the passive-aggression, stonewalling, and lack of attention and closeness.

I have decided I want more, and that I will not settle for less.
Whatever part of my life remains, I won't waste it in a half-life marriage.

I'd rather be alone. I really would.
There is so much work he would have to do, and it would have to be permanent.

I have continued to learn and grow throughout my life, and I see now that he has not. In fact, he's sort of shrunken into someone I hardly know anymore.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

He still appears to have zero compassion for anyone, especially me.
Every time I am around friends and family who love and appreciate me, it throws up into stark contrast to the way H is now, and particularly the way he is WITH ME.
He treats me as though I was contaminated, and I'm possibly still infectious.

Yet, HE is the one who betrayed ME. I have never done anything to cause him to feel this way about me, except for being so hurt and angry after BD/OW that I said many things to him I would have never said to him before. Hurtful things. But true things, or true at the moment, anyway.
Things I would have never said to him about how unhappy I had been, how I tolerated his treatment of me grudgingly... and more. It was said in anger, and I am not one to say hurtful things to people. But I was in pain. I lashed out at him in a way I had never done.

Frankly, I think seeing that side of me frightened him. And hearing me say all the things I had stuffed over the years made him realize that his way of "handling" me and the M was really cruel, and that it was OVER.

I brought up the negative things he did, like finding excuses to not do things with me, to not be intimate with me, not be fun and friendly towards me, refusing to communicate about his thoughts, undermining and diminishing any unhappiness I expressed about the M. Keeping secrets, expending his sexual energy on porn, being manipulative and passive-aggressive.

I have never said a word of anything along these lines since Feb 2014, and the worst of it, well over a year ago.
I'm supposed to "let it go" and yet I feel like he is the one holding onto the pain I CAUSED HIM.
Because, according to him, I should "dump that victim crap."

I swear he feels that HE is the victim of me saying mean things to him after the emotional equivalent of him running me over with a steamroller.

Ten times.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

I have had enough of this.

I look at him now and I'm starting to wonder what I ever saw in this man.
He is a far cry from the man I met almost 30 years ago. I am struggling to find that person in his face, body, voice, and actions.

To be blunt, he is now an unattractive, out-of-shape senior citizen who is unhappy and angry, fearful and passive... who keeps secrets and has too many problems to list here. He is not fun, he's not vibrant, he's a drag to be around and he adds nothing of value to my life except for things I could pay someone else to do if I had the money.

I know this sounds cruel, but it's the truth. The qualities I valued in him the most; his fidelity, his devotion to me, his "Sterling Character" (and yes, I often used that phrase about him) were either never really true, or they're just gone...maybe gone for good.

Without those qualities, a shared history and entangled lives is not a good enough reason to stay. I can't go back to how things were. My eyes are open, the glasses are off, and I am seeing things clearly for the first time.

He's not a terrible person, he's just a very damaged one. I feel sorry for him at this point, because I predict his comment "I will die alone for what I have done" may well come true.

This experience has helped me to grow, to learn about myself, and to wise up about relationships and understand what I want going forward.

I just don't think he's up for it. And, if I can be blunt, after what he's done, the idea of being close to him physically at this point actually makes me cringe. I can't see that changing.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Funny, I didn't feel this way until recently.

Even after I discovered OW. Even then I wanted him to hold me and kiss me, and tell me everything was going to be OK, that he loved me and was going to make it right.

I held onto that for over a year now. I kept my heart open and watched him continue to trample on it.

Now along with detaching, I feel my heart closing to him.
A big part of it is because I am really thinking things through and I am using my head as well as my heart.

And what they say is true. It's not dislike or anger, it's just indifference. I just find I don't much care as much anymore. Maybe it's another cycle for me, maybe it's a clue to what's coming next, I don't know.

I am just trying to be realistic. I know I can never be happy with things as they were between us "at their best." It would have to be SO much better.

I would like to believe in him, his ability to grow like I have, but how can I?

This man still can't even make the slightest gesture to make himself vulnerable.
He was actually better at this last year, before I started DBing, when I was driving a lot of R talks.

It's a fact that those pushed him further away, but he was talking about his feelings more. Now it's like we're both pretending what's going on isn't really going on at all.

*sigh*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
So I continue my GAL, PMA, thought-stopping, and I am doing a LOT of soul-searching.

I am trying to decide if my sticking here any longer is because of the difficulty of physically moving and starting over, leaving my home and "kids", and giving up the idea of having that partner who'd be with me through thick and thin, and---the ego-blow that frankly, PISSES ME OFF, the "how dare HE leave ME!!!"---if I am being honest, that's part of it.

That I put up with so much of his chit only to have him toss me aside like an old boot. Do I just want it to be MY choice? Sometimes, like now, I think so.

This is also going to sound crappy, but I think I can do so much better. Either on my own or with someone else. I keep thinking about good things that being on my own will bring, so many changes that seem positive.

And now, I don't think I'm having a MLC or planning on being a WAW. I'm just being practical and as honest as I can be.

I think I may have outgrown him, is all. I think I've learned so much, that I can no longer settle for the crippled emotional connection that he was able to give.

Even if he can improve in that area, it will never be natural for him, it's likely to be a constant struggle. It basically would require a personality transplant.

I just no longer see much that I like in him, much less love about him. And as far as physical attraction goes, it's in the negative.

It s*cks, but this is how it is now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Just keepin' it real, DBers. This is my journaling journey.

I guess we'll see what my increased detachment brings as far as his actions.

Carry On!!!

Your Pal,

The Goat Gal
(G)GGG

Oh, and one last thing.

Over the years I always saw the best in him, whereas recently he tried to find so many things "wrong" with me to justify the way he felt and to excuse his actions.

Things are now reversed.

The complaints he had about me had little to no value.
The more I consider the few issues he brought up, the more I can see that they were deflections from dealing with his own issues.

They say to look at everything and decide which complaints "sting" and therefore have merit, which complaints are valid and things that we should change.

Well, the complaints, such as they were, were very much extensions of his own problems.
He took responsibility for my emotions, so if I was ever upset, he got upset with me. And I didn't get upset often. Any minor frustration I expressed, he took as a personal blow. Maybe because he felt he was supposed to "make" me happy.

If he was generous with money, and I wasn't "happy" all the time, then there was either something wrong with me, or he wasn't doing his job of "making" me happy.

There was a lot of this stuff.

Yet, my requests for attention, affection, and emotional closeness, quality time, not only went unaddressed, they turned into attacks on ME.

Now since BD, he believed because he was unhappy, that it must have been my fault for not doing my job and making him so. Therefore, I deserved what I got from him.

Because he "Gave me EVERYTHING".

His "reasons" for not ML with me in the past were also smokescreens for his problems. He turned things around on me, saying I wasn't attractive, I wasn't political enough, that I said or did this or that minuscule thing.
All manipulative. All designed to avoid pointing the finger at the REAL PROBLEM, which resided inside of him. His problems with porn and intimacy.

But he tried to make it about me. This has been our entire relationship. There was a constant distancing act going on with him, and I learned early on to accept it.

But I lied to myself.

I DID want a good, strong emotional and physical connection with someone. I didn't get it with him. And looking back, it was a bargain I struck with myself which was unfair to me.

I want those things NOW.

I'm not saying I was perfect, but there was very little he had to complain about. I see now I pretty much let him walk all over me emotionally.

So the tables are turned, because the things he said about my failings were LIES, and I see now they weren't true.

And the good qualities I believed he had are no longer in evidence.

I know I'm rambling now, but one of the reasons I haven't been posting is because I've been doing so much thinking.

I am much more of a human than he wanted me to think I was.

And he is much less of one than I believed him to be.

---(G)GGG

Funny, isn't it, GG? How we can be married for so long, and just accept so much of this as the normal give and take of a marriage. And then once the WAS forces us to reevaluate everything..... sometimes we start to see that they really weren't very good to us throughout the marriage.
I still think I had a better marriage than most, there were lots of good parts; but truth be told, I spent a lot of it being unappreciated by an unhappy critical husband who couldn't appreciate what a gem he had. And I say that, not out of hubris, but because EVERY lover I have had since the divorce has said it to me!!!! Not one of them can figure out why any sane man would have let me go (yes, it's true, a couple of them let me go too, but only for legitimate reasons having nothing to do with me).
My current boyfriend, The Keeper, says he wants to send my ex a thank you card. And he loves me exactly the way I am.

it's a welcome change.

Hi GGG(G),
Something you posted really hit a nerve with me and my W's sitch. The part about he was supposed to "make" you happy....
Recently my W posted a quote on FB about how "wrong" it is for someone to expect you to live your life to "make" them happy. The thing is, I never expected nor asked her to do anything of the sort. On B-day W said "I'm miserable, you're miserable, we should just get a D". Thing is I wasn't miserable at all. Confused by the way she had been acting yes, upset that she couldn't even say I love you anymore, yes, but NOT miserable. She projected that feeling onto me. I really think she felt that she couldn't do what was needed to have a good R and was angry because she felt like I was unhappy as a result. All I wanted was a normal M and family. A W that actually wanted to spend time with me and the kids, be intimate once in a while. She would do things with her "friends" and feel like I was upset about it but I wasn't. All I wanted was her to do things with me as well. I think she knew she was destroying our M, felt badly about it so turned it all back onto me as MY fault. Expecting her to just have a normal give and take R turned into, in her mind, my asking for too much. Every little thing I said she turned into some kind of complaint against her. If I said "I wish you didn't have to work late Friday night" became me "complaining" about her when it wasn't. I wasn't saying "You are working late on purpose" or "If you loved me you wouldn't work late" but I really think that was what she heard in her mind. If someone else were to say to her "You're spending too much time at the office. You should spend more time with the family", she wouldn't get angry at them. She saw it as them being concerned. If I were to say it, it became an accusation, a dig on her. I truly think many MLCers do this.

We know what we meant when we said things that they took totally wrong but their minds are so messed up they heard something totally different. I think that is a big part of why we turn into such "bad guys" in their minds. They feel so inadequate, so unhappy in their own skins, they project those same feelings onto us. The worst part is there is no way out of that sitch. If we were to say "why don't you come to bed early so we can cuddle" because we love them and want to spend time being close, they hear "You never want to just cuddle with me, what's wrong with you". Overcoming the fact that what they heard wasn't reality but their own projections may just not be possible. It doesn't help that, if they can blame us, it takes away their own guilt either.

I really think that even if they start to see the LBS for who they really are, they have to start to realize that we really weren't the evil people they saw us as but also if that is the case, they had no "reason" to do the things they did! First they have to start to understand that we really aren't horrible, then they have to come to terms with what they did and the pain that they caused the LBS. I think that's why so many just aren't able to do it.

That may be where GUBU is now. The "fun and free" life he thought he was going to have didn't work out. He see's you as the fun, sexy, talented person you are. How you are even better than you were before he bombed you. Now he has to realize how wrong he was. He has to understand that he was projecting feelings onto you that you didn't "cause" and he has to realize and make up for all the pain that he caused. At the same time he has to come to terms with the fact that he can't have the life he imagined he would have without you to "hold him back". That's a lot for a rational thinking person to do, let alone someone in MLC!

You are not alone in the looking back and realizing all that you "put up" with over the years. The realization that you may have sacrificed much more than you thought at the time. To wonder if it's worth going back to the R unless it's BETTER than before. I really think that's what is meant when they say it's going to be up the the LBS whether or not there will ever be a R in the end. That is something only YOU can decide in the end.

I would love to hear you play some day, GGG. You sound like a woman of many talents that any man would be lucky to have in his life!

Thanks, Matt, for supporting me here!

What you said:
"I really think that even if they start to see the LBS for who they really are, they have to start to realize that we really weren't the evil people they saw us as but also if that is the case, they had no "reason" to do the things they did! First they have to start to understand that we really aren't horrible, then they have to come to terms with what they did and the pain that they caused the LBS. I think that's why so many just aren't able to do it."

I think this is very true. Although over the last few years, he has tried to demonize me on so many levels, I think it's pretty clear to him at this point that I am nothing like he tried to convince himself I might be.
And this I think adds to his guilt and confusion.
Because if I really AM a sweet, loving person, who was a good (though not perfect) wife, who is cute and funny and all the rest---then what does that make HIM?

In order to be a "Nice Guy" and still cheat on his wife, he had to find a workaround.
And that meant he convinced himself that I deserved his treatment for not being Fill-In-The-Blank.
That I had fallen short in "making" him "happy".

That it was ME who contributed to his self-described feeling of being "disconnected" from me, rather than it being he who ignored me, diminished me, turned away from me, and ultimately began what was an unhealthy, obsessive relationship with absolutely the wrong person, one who he essentially used to fuel his own "feel good" chemicals, and one with whom he knew it would never be anything but just that.

That in the pursuit of his own pleasure, he almost lost his job, destroyed her family, gave her a serious STD, and, I recently discovered while deleting old emails from him, he allowed her to believe he was leaving me for her, although he never had any intention of doing so.

He treated her almost as callously as he did me, but my sympathy is limited since it was her choice, and a "choice" is something I never had.
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"The "fun and free" life he thought he was going to have didn't work out.
He see's you as the fun, sexy, talented person you are. How you are even better than you were before he bombed you."

That's an understatement, Matt! He's living in a friend's guest room, has no privacy, is a pariah in his own home, his wife doesn't trust him, he made some huge mistakes, his friends are out of his life, he has lost self-respect, and possibly some of the most important things in his life.
He sees me making the most of my situation, and even blossoming. This bothers him. I know it does.

The endless parade of p*ssy that Ho-worker deluded him into thinking was out there for his enjoyment has not materialized. She was a FLUKE.

She was only attracted to him because he was her Boss, the "BIG BOSS", who allowed her to believe he had deep pockets and a spiteful shrew at home, who convinced her she was special because he wanted to get into her pants and play out his more kinky fantasies (while convincing himself he was doing HER a favor by sharing his private parts with her).

He led her to believe he was going to leave me for her, that she could just have MY LIFE, rolling in the dough (that doesn't exist, it was all a sham he put on with her, we're in debt big time!), that she was going to live the Good Life with "Mr. Wonderful", the poor, misunderstood fellow who was trapped in a loveless marriage with an aging hag.

She was attracted to what he represented, because she had major issues of her own; she had been molested by a similar looking man his own age as a young girl, WHICH HE KNEW, but he took advantage of her vulnerability anyway for his own satisfaction... well, it was all lies. Lies to her, lies to me.

And he's alone.
More alone than he ever wanted to be.
Turns out the fact that he was MARRIED was a turn-on to types like his HWW. Me being his wife gave him value. He was tried and proven. Now he's just another creeper.
As a single senior without his own place, a wife he's going to be paying through the nose for in terms of alimony, and a job that could go south any day, well, he's hardly a catch these days.
The money-bags cache that he tries to pull off with people is a lie. He can't retire, he'll go broke. He's going to get reamed in a divorce. He's got nothing to offer financially, or any other way, to tell the truth.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

]"Now he has to realize how wrong he was."

I actually believe he is starting to see this. But doesn't know what to do about it. Because he doesn't want to appear "weak", so he can't admit what a huge mistake he's made.
As if it would seem "stronger" to continue down a path that leads nowhere rather than turn back.

"He has to understand that he was projecting feelings onto you that you didn't "cause" and he has to realize and make up for all the pain that he caused. At the same time he has to come to terms with the fact that he can't have the life he imagined he would have without you to "hold him back".

I think that "making up for all the pain he caused" is a major stumbling block for him. I have tried to give the impression that I don't expect a giant leap of any kind, that things take time, but I think it's very overwhelming to him.

"You are not alone in the looking back and realizing all that you "put up" with over the years. The realization that you may have sacrificed much more than you thought at the time."

I have. I compensated very much for what I was not getting from him. I made myself "happy". I allowed him to distance, thinking that was what he wanted. Maybe he wanted me to pursue him, so he could feel more loved while he turned away from me. I don't know.
That's an unhealthy dynamic I am not interested in, with him or anyone.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So today, it's same old, same old.

But now that I am pretty well detached and disinterested, I am curious to see how this affects his progress.

MIND-READING ALERT!
I think I can say that these days, it's pretty clear to him that I am now out of his league. I think this is another barrier to him for R. I'm so much better than I was, and he is a shadow of his former self.

I don't think he feels confident about what he has to offer me, or someone like me.
I think he thinks I'm too good for/too much for him. That I have "demands" and "requirements". And I do.
That he would be happier with someone less confident, more submissive, and who puts him on a pedestal. Enter HWW.... that's very much what that was about. Perhaps he would be happier with a R like that. Maybe that's just what he needs and all these years he was trying to live up to what I wanted from him and he's just too tired to try any more.

That could be true.

Yet I refuse to diminish myself to make him feel better.
I did that in Jr. High when I was still "too smart" and kids really started to make fun of me in a worse way than ever.
I changed myself. I stopped getting A+ on tests, quit doing my homework, acted more "stupid". I dressed more slutty, took up smoking. Cut classes.

This escalated to hanging out with losers and deliberately giving the impression that I was dumber and more reckless than I actually was.
I am very lucky that it didn't go further than it did, that I didn't end up in real trouble.

I think the reason why that didn't happen was that deep down, I was a pretty good kid.

Looking back, it wasn't worth it, just to be "cool" and have "friends" and have some boy like me.

And I'm not going to do that again to make someone else happy.

H is either going to rise to the challenge, or not.

Time will tell.

---(G)GGG

Glad you're back and ok

Sounds like an eventful thinking adventure.

Does he know what the challenge that he needs to rise to is?

Jim,

He's a bright man, so yes, I think he does. I fear he doesn't believe he is capable.
And he may well be right about that, unfortunately.

I have decided that I am not willing to spell it out for him either.

He's going to need to decide what's important, and make permanent changes in himself because it's the right thing to do, because HE wants to be better and to do better as a partner to me or anyone.

I will not ask him to do it for me. I will not ask him to change anything about himself that he doesn't care enough to do. There is nothing to be gained by that.
He will only resent me for it, or continue to do hurtful things while getting better at hiding it from me.

If he is unwilling to be the kind of man I need, that's his choice. I will move on.
I have given him the best chance I could to allow him to come to some kind of realization.

I'm not "done" yet, but as time goes by I see that a life without him won't be the end of the world. He still has time. If he is interested in a life with me, then he should be doing something about it here pretty soon.

And that ^^^ is me setting boundaries for what I will or will not accept without trying to get him to do anything.
The consequence for him failing to get his act together is that I will no longer be in his life.

That's his choice, but the outcome is under MY control.

--(G)GGG

So glad you're back, lady. More tomorrow.

That seems like a very wise approach - if he's not prepared to make the changes for himself then how could you have faith they are genuine and will stick.

Wasn't it Raine's husband who had the moving toothbrush?

Well, it appears that the clothing which disappeared from here a few weeks ago has reappeared.

I saw a few things last week, now I was just down in the area of the basement that H is using as a "closet" and---lo and behold--there are a bunch of clothes hanging there now!

"Things that make you go... 'Hmmmmmmmm'..."

Not just his farm clothes, either. I'm talking ties, shirts... no undies though.

That would be too personal.

On the other hand, he doesn't so much as leave a toothbrush here. He actually carries his toothbrush, toothpaste, lotion, etc. back and forth when he stays over.
(Note: We buy in bulk, so there are toothbrushes and plenty of paste to be had. As well as lotion, deodorant, contact lens solution... Whatever!)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* He is still giving me his whereabouts, why he might be late, etc. He lets me know when he is on his way, hasn't done the "show up unannounced" routine in a few weeks now.

* He texts me "Goodnight" almost every night, and is now initiating little texts during the day, with questions like "How are the pups? Are they frozen yet? It's going to get really cold..." Nothing he NEEDS to ask me.

* He consistently has been sharing about his "writing", now "reading", his bike riding... his plans for the week.

* He asks me my plans (though never about who, I think he's afraid to, so I tell him) and works around them.

* He has been great as far as doing anything I ask, taking care of the animals, and whatever I need.
(Yes, I'd like him to do it without my asking but then I remember he's a teenager. They generally don't volunteer.) He is very consistent with being here every day and every weekend unless there is a work conflict and it would be pitch black.

* He has stopped asking the annoying "What time will you leave/return?" question when I go out. Funny too because I was right at the point of saying: "THE SAME DARN TIME AS EVERY OTHER WEEK!!!"

* And, looking back there have been exactly ZERO snarky texts from him in--what--a few weeks now?

I have to think about this aspect ^^^ some more.
I have been very careful not to push his negative buttons, so that may be part of the "reason", if there IS a reason. That I have given him no ammunition to react to.

Also, I have been very transparent as to what I'm up to, who I'm with, making it clear that I am GALing in groups, with girlfriends, and that my Farm Boy Toy was here for work purposes ONLY (the visuals and company were just a perk) and that he was not allowed in the house out of respect for H.

(Subtext: No people of opposite gender in the house for either of us. Not cool.)

Since these little things have been spelled out to him, he seems more at ease, maybe less threatened?

Still, I must bear in mind that he might just think "Great! She's keeping the home fires burning, being a good girl, not rocking the boat and not going anywhere with a new fella, so I can keep her on the back burner as long as I want!"

I want to make sure he does NOT get that impression.

What I want to convey is that I am:

1. I am a person of integrity. I have nothing to hide, therefore I hide nothing.

2. I tell the truth, even when it makes me look bad. (Except for the bathroom wall, that was a funny one. I kick a big hole, patch and paint it, and he goes off about a little scratch that had nothing to do with me.)

3. I am not dating, nor do I plan to date until I am emotionally, legally, and spiritually severed from my M, and have no "unfinished emotional business" (to quote Dr. Phil)
To do otherwise would be to use other people to make myself feel better at their expense. I will not do that.
That said, I am getting to know other men, spending time with them in groups doing activities, and flirting a bit to stay in practice.

While making it crystal clear that I am not on the market at this time.
I have conveyed this to H as well, in actions, not words.

4. I keep up with my 180s; the things I needed to improve upon anyway.
a. I am keeping the (chaotic, disaster zone, no walls, no outlets, no closets or shelves) house as clean and organized as possible.
b. I am talking less, and listening more. I am toning it down and letting things go.
c. I am more conscientious about money and make sure to validate H for providing for me.
d. I don't ask questions, don't pursue, don't push R or "feelings" talk.
e. I am dressing better, sexier, make sure I am always well groomed and looking my best.
f. I don't complain about ANYTHING, just ask for help if I need it. I am always upbeat.
g. I am learning to take care of things without H.
h. I modify my voice to be softer, less strident, higher pitched. (It's an Aspie thing.) I take a breath during convos and stay on topic.
i. I consistently express my gratitude to H for what he does for me, and validate his feelings.
j. I try very hard not to let myself get distracted or overwhelmed. These are two things I wrestle with, along with procrastination.
k. I myself model the behavior that I want from H. Kindness, consideration, generosity, respect, being a good listener, being fun, interesting, attractive, easy-going and upbeat, sexy, and appreciative of others, and grateful for all I do have. I keep a PMA and communicate that to everyone I meet.

5. I allow myself to be vulnerable, and to ask him for help if I really need it. I let him see that even though I am capable, I am not immune to feeling sad or lonely, or needing help to get things done. That I do need him.

6. That I will be fine with or without him. That my life is full of wonderful things, and if he wants to ride MY ride, he'll get the benefit of that life.

7. That I am a Kick-A** Friggin' Dancing Goddess of the Goats!

Just an update, while I was counting the shirts and ties he's got down there....

---(G)GGG

I remember HRM's husband having the traveling toothbrush in the bathroom. If I recall, she moved it few times and he would put it back where he had it. Finally, she just left it alone. We got a good laugh out of that toothbrush activity. Her h never left home the entire time and acted out, but they finally made it through the rough times.

Clothes moving back home? It may be a sign that he's slowly thinking of returning home. But I would not put much stock into my comment until you've seen more activity w/the movement of other items back home. Whatever you do, do not call attention to the clothes. Stay calm and observe.

Continue as you have been. I think you've been doing great. Keep up the good work.

Job,

Thanks! No... I read nothing into nothing.

I haven't said one peep about anything, really.
I don't ask, don't tell, and don't mention anything weird that he's doing.

I just keep on with my plan.

I observe and stay neutral, like any good Amoeba Scientist.

--(G)GGG

You wouldn't be a Groggy Goat on the side, by any chance?

"Groggy Goat"???

Question answered.

Thats a really good list of things to convey. Your H would have to be very foolish or very scared not choose you.

I'd like to have had something more insightful to say.

Maybell,

That comment went over my head once...twice...still going...CAN

YOU. HEAR. ME. NOW?

???

Don't get it.

UPDATE, Y'all!

This Goddess of the Goats is going to be hitting' the trail for a few days.
She will be out roaming the western mountains where her flexibility and dancing skills will be put to the test in incredible ways with wonderful people and amazing music.

I feel certain that you are in good hands with all the vets on this board so I will not feel guilty for being MIA until next week.

No worries, I will be back, maybe with a few tall tales to tell around the campfire.

You can bet I will be working my Mojo!
("But it just don't work on GUBU!")
--------------------------------------------------------------

And--- H's electric razor has now appeared downstairs!
I am guessing it's a back-up because he would be using it daily, but still.
It has joined the ranks of shirts, ties, pants, and outerwear that slowly have accumulated again.

Hmmmmmm......

Keep on Bustin'!!!!

Your Pal,

The Goat Gal

Hey GGG,

Set fire to the dance floor, girl!!!

Electric razor?? Hmmmmm......very interesting. Is it the time of the year to shear sheep??

Looks like it, Wonka, looks like it.

He has not had a razor here since I kicked him out. So it's...odd.

I forgot to mention that he has a second phone charger here too now.

All his farm/work clothes are here too.

(Makes sense, he has no other farm to tend, no heifers to inseminate! And yes, that was a deliberate "Freudian Slip" about the "Endowments"

)

Up until now, I noticed he was keeping "extra" clothes hanging on a bar in his truck, like a traveling salesman. I had wondered about that.

Got into the "Stinkin' Thinkin'" as you like to call it.

Is he staying somewhere overnight and needs fresh clothes for work? That rattled around in my head for awhile.

Then I decided that it just as well could be stuff he wanted to take to the dry cleaners.
Which, as it turns out, was true for some of the items. But they came from the dry cleaners into our basement. Makes no sense considering he doesn't live here and doesn't go to work from here, or hasn't but once in over a year now.

He is also weird about food. I asked him today while I was at the store if he wanted me to pick anything up. He said "no thanks".
I guess he assumes he will eat whatever I have here for myself.

A bit annoying, that ^^^, because I no longer shop for two. He ends up eating things I bought for myself. He does earn the money to pay for it, but I'd like to know if he is going to eat my one Veggie Lasagna that I planned for my dinner when I get home.

*sigh* Small things, really. But he never brings food here, doesn't seem to eat much of anything except coffee and some hummus. Stranger and stranger....

Anyhow. He will be staying here the next few nights while I am gone, and after he leaves on Monday I will explore the basement for any new items that might have appeared in my absence.

Onward and Upward!

----(G)GGG

Oh, sorry. There's a festival happening this weekend and one of the vendors there is The Groggy Goat, so I thought, hey, my GoatGal is pretty crafty and how many goats are there in this part of the world anyway? But I guess... More than a couple.

sorry for being cryptic. Was just hoping kismet might bring us together.

GGG- catching up on your sitch and it sounds like there's some movement on the farm, huh?
I love the list you wrote- going to put that in my references list!

Enjoy your time away and dance like crazy

hey goat girl-

wo0w- you are doing some heavy-dutythinking out there. sooo many things you say are true for me also - it doesn't surprise me since i've seen over and over how we all seem to experience the same idiosyncracies (sp) with these mlc folks.

it's so icky- the not wanting you to do anything for him. i see that too- it's there - we've lived together so long- we'd have to be nuts not to notice out -of-character things.

i don't think it's mind-reading on your part.(necessarily)

30 or 40 years is a long time with anyone - you just know what is happening with someone you've spent your life with.

oh well- i just wanted to sayb yeah- i sure hear ya and it does make me feel a bit better to hear someone else say allllllll the same things.

I don't even have the juice for a response other than to say you sound good- and i'm glad of that.

i am seriously on cruise. i can tell after this past year- i'm too "tired" mentally to deal. i'm just tryin to float thru the holidays without making any sudden moves. i don't think i'm particularly depressed or anything- just honestly emotionally worn out. keeping the peace and stfu-ing is my only way to remain detached and unentangled in "junk" here and around my sisters. everyone seems pretty nuts and scrappy to me. a land of edgy women who are unhappy with no one to blame - pocket analysis. no extra charge.

no big expectatiopns- will be happy if there are no upsets with any sisters or relatives or h either. i want harmony and that is all. i hope you have it as well- i hope your thanksgiving goes well and you manage to enjoy it.

i better go clean - that being said- we're hosts this year and not a darn thing done, clean or purchased.

woo hoo

xxo

Well, my Thanksgiving officially s*cked.

More on this another time.

Tonight it's off to a Big Band Swing Dance Formal Gala.

Gonna get dressed up all purty and make a real effort to recapture some of that PMA.

Don't worry, all is well, just--tired. Tired of fighting the incoming horde of emotional soul-sucking Zombies.

At some point, it's just easier to say: "Go ahead and eat my brains. I hope you enjoy them very much." Then smile a winning smile and let them have at it...

---(G)GGG

GGG, just catching up on your thread. Your posts always inspire me.

Originally Posted By: GoatGal

I think I can say that these days, it's pretty clear to him that I am now out of his league. I think this is another barrier to him for R. I'm so much better than I was, and he is a shadow of his former self.

I don't think he feels confident about what he has to offer me, or someone like me.
I think he thinks I'm too good for/too much for him. That I have "demands" and "requirements". And I do.
That he would be happier with someone less confident, more submissive, and who puts him on a pedestal. Enter HWW.... that's very much what that was about. Perhaps he would be happier with a R like that. Maybe that's just what he needs and all these years he was trying to live up to what I wanted from him and he's just too tired to try any more.

It is just like you were describing my H. I have the same thoughts (mindreading, ha.)

Have a great time tonight! Don�t let these Zombies to eat your brain, It is invaluable

Welcome back, lady.

You are on my gratitude list.

Fiddle-dee-dee, tomorrow is another day.

Hugs!

GG,
I'm sorry to read that your Thanksgiving didn't go well. I do hope that the Big Band Swing Dance Formal Gala was a huge success and that you had a great time. You needed this to help recapture some of your PMA.

As for your h and his moving things back into the basement, it reminds me so much of other posters who had spouses do things very similar to this many years ago. I'll be sitting on the sidelines waiting to see what else you've discovered that has found its way back home via the basement.

Please take care of yourself.

GGG,

Ditto to what Job said ^^^.

Observing your petri dish experiment and noting the results in your clipboard.

Thanks for checking in, job, Wonka, Bright, Maybell, nero... Rest assured I am sticking to the DBing plan! I appreciate you following along with my crazy sitch!

Here's a "quick update" for all you GUBU fans:

I did invite him for Thanksgiving, said that I wanted to know by that morning whether or not he'd eat with me.

That morning he said "I will not be eating there." via text.
Totally expected, really. He then said "not trying to be a jerk".

Ok, so I was annoyed. Like what do I have--the plague or something? And FWIW, I am a great cook.

But as far as he was concerned, I sent a pleasant text:
"Figured you wouldn't. That's why I had backup plans."

(Which I didn't really, just eating alone and playing music alone... same old, same old. Yay me being an introvert. Thank goodness for small favors.)

He apologized again later, via text: "Don't take offense, just in a weird place today."

Ok.. whatever. I validated: "I often feel the same. Don't sweat it. Perhaps another time."

Funny how he never says "Thanks for the invite..." or anything that actually recognizes that I asked him... it's always this third-person sort of response that minimizes what I asked into some soul-less transaction.
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Thinking about all these "Nice Guys" on here who are working on rediscovering their manly assertiveness, I recalled a convo GUBU and I had early on after OW discovery.
He had this printed paper that was all about "Codependency". I asked him about it, and he said that he and OW were trying to figure themselves out... (!!!!!)...and decided they were Codependent.

Well...DUH! It's the "Captain Save-A-Ho" syndrome...

NOW it seems he is very aware he is massively codependent, (just things he's doing and saying that point to trying to reverse this tendency) and after doing a lot of reading on the subject myself, I can see how this has played into our R over the years.

He did at one point try and "explain" to me that because he is codependent, that I must be as well, but--sorry--nope! Probably why he was so weird around me and felt so "GOOD" with OW. She was so needy and messed up from everything he said. Clearly.

As for me--I'm seen a few psychologists and one good psychiatrist over the years and the label "codependent' or 'narcissistic" never came up. I have a "healthy" attachment style, am independent but compassionate... aside from the ADD and Asperger's, pretty darn healthy. And I work really hard to make those last two not define me or what I can do.
I've taken every freaking online test and "Codependent"--it's just not me. Never was.
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GUBU was probably always somewhat uncomfortable with me because I was NOT the classic needy, messed up one who he could rescue to make himself feel needed and therefore have value. I guess was scary for that reason.

Yet, I was somehow what he wanted. He married me, didn't he? I think I was the exception among all the needy, messed up women he had before (and during) our R. (Yes, I see that now. I was the first non-train wreck, except for one old girlfriend decades ago who was lovely, and yes--he dumped her too!)
I think I was the case of the "relationship that could have been healthy if the codependent wasn't so busy sabotaging it...."

Anyway... I digress... Dr. GoatGal is writing her dissertation....

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The point here is that I think this *might* be something he's working on in therapy, since he's gone from "Mr. I'll Do ANYTHING for You" to "Mr. I Don't Give a Rat's A$$ and I'm Learning How to Say NO and Your Feelings are YOUR BUSINESS."

All well and good, except that he exploded my life, I'm living here alone, and he does have some responsibility for that. He's crossed over into minimal compassion land. In fact, he's been there for a long time now.

Yes, he'll do what I ask. But he never offers to do anything and basically just does whatever he wants without thinking of me.
So--no one wants a codependent mate, but a compassionate one... well, that would be nice for a change these days.

I figure it's going to take some time for him to learn where the middle ground is between indecisive passive-aggressive and total jerk-o-mo non-empathetic, self-centered pr*ck. Time will tell.
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Anyhow, on Thanksgiving I just focused on what I had coming up for the weekend and made the best of it.
But yeah, it did suck being here alone on yet another holiday. Last year sucked too.

But my Gala was great and I enjoyed that very much. Today I'm home, but then have another event Sunday evening, dinner and dancing with friends. So I'm staying busy.

Even at my age I am still working on improving my dancing abilities and working in new techniques and problem solving. Same for my music. I have been working hard on that and it's paying off. I'm surprising even myself these days. Ragtime guitar. I'm killing it.

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Back to GUBU:
It's hard to think of all the little things he's been doing that show me progress, but there have been several.

Ongoing pleasant phone calls, for one. More laughing, more eye contact. Just more light interactions without so much drama.

Extending our health insurance benefits...keeping all the finances jointly, not getting his own place, still working on the house... more clothes have appeared.

He stopped asking what time I'd be leaving or getting home when I go out. He knows where I'm going, what I'm doing, and who I'm with. I have nothing to hide.

He still gives me his whereabouts, makes a point of letting me know he's at "his" place, (highly doubt he'd have another woman there for a bunch of reasons, plus, he wouldn't be calling/texting me so much), he says when he'll be late, etc.

The other is sometimes he's been actively avoiding me when he's been here which I thought was odd, until I realized that he was grubby and unshaven... and I *think* he didn't want to be around me like that.

He HAS been around when he's been shaven and wearing decent, clean, non-manure clothes.

I haven't noticed his beard getting any longer, but at least he's not doing the grubby thing.

And he's still locking his truck when he's here for 10 minutes. Weird. Creepy. I always wonder what he's afraid of/hiding...or what.
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For the record, I looked KICK-A$$ last night!!!
I asked him to fasten my pearl necklace for me... (made him touch me) thanked him for doing that, and how "being a girl" takes a lot of work! (I can be a bit tom-boyish, so I'm playing that up.)

The Gala was a black and white theme, so it was a form-fitting vintage black sleeveless dress with a low back/neckline (tasteful), with pearls and a pearl comb in my upswept blonde hair. Ruby red lips, perfume, vintage makeup with pale skin, dark eyeliner... get the picture?

I KNOW he did!

Then I made a comment about how unfortunate it was that the "scent of the hairspray was conflicting with my perfume..."

"Oh". He says. "Hah. I guess it would."
(Bit of sarcasm I heard from him, but my point was made!)
I looked good, smelled good, and was concerned that anyone in my vicinity might not get the full benefit of my perfume.
Ahem....ahem...

Anyhow. Sometimes it's hard. I haven't had any physical affection other than hugs from friends and dancing. No bodywork since my therapist has had family issues and can't work on me. No one really touches me, holds my hand.

My animals are good, but talk about "needy"! I want someone to GIVE to ME for a change.
That does make me sad sometimes, always being alone.

But then I remember that you wonderful folks are out there in the ether, and I'm grateful to have people to talk to.

Time to feed the mutts and make myself some nice Thanksgiving leftovers, which apparently I'll be eating for the next month....

And, oh yeah. I'm pretty detached. That's good.

Your Pal,

The Goat Gal
"The Queen of the "QUICK UPDATE"!!!

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